necro leggo is going to be pretty darn good in m+
#assassination
gusty mirage
halcyon falcon
Grats keichii
wise gull
first CE ever
balmy condor
Necro lego looks really crazy good for m+, but necro is currently only about 50 dps behind necro in single target
“Go necro” has always been a thing since 9.0.5 really
low wedge
How does this discord feel about asking to get leaked sub only ui's? Is there some rule against it or is it fine?
mean the weakaura when i say ui
stoic needle
wise gull
just pay the 5 bucks
low wedge
Student 
balmy condor
It doesn’t really fall under any specific rule as far as I’m aware, but it’s generally bad practice, frowned upon, and not allowed
low wedge
Ahh ok, ty for clear answer @balmy condor
balmy condor
No problem
balmy condor
Ahh ok, ty for clear answer <@!167090536602140682>
That being said, it probably breaks the discord guidelines more than any individual server rules, rule #17 is prohibited sharing of others intellectual property. It’s a bit of a grey area since they’re making UI’s using addons that aren’t their own, but since they are selling it as their content, I would assume that falls under the category
low wedge
makes sense tbh, shouldent take more then 1h to make something that looks like what im looking for tho, so guess gotta start 😅
balmy condor
There’s probably 95 versions of some similar thing already on wago
I would start there and maybe edit it to your liking
low wedge
ahh true, ty for the suggestion
worthy iris
what is the opening rotation for sin on a patchwork fight?
stoic needle
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
final star
@worthy iris what covenant
worthy iris
venthyr but i think i got it thank you!
final star
cerulean nest
what are the bog standard openers for m+ packs (with MA leggo and talent build from the pins)
low girder
with MA leggo you run NS MFD though right
stoic needle
You can do a 4th if you want, it doesn't really matter
Ns MFD feels better to play with MA, but it's not strictly better
final star
Pretty sure it's slightly better with MA specifically
glacial bough
should i make doomblade? i dont have zoldyck
final star
EP/NS/MfD/CT
MfD > CT > Fok > Rupture > fok > Rupture > garrote
Using MfD before pull is a gain for 0-3CP iirc
cerulean nest
gotcha
so two ruptures and a garrote
and then just like, maintaining those? adding new ones? dumping envenoms into prio?
final star
After that maintain CT and apply more ruptures
cerulean nest
just not sure what to do on longer packs
cerulean nest
so straight up ignore envenoms?
cerulean nest
interesting, ok
stoic needle
You use envenom to refresh SnD but that's it
cerulean nest
okay cool, i was doing it more than necessary then
final star
Prio is CT > Rupture > garrote in aoe
You also maintain CT in single target like a boss
thorny pond
should i make doomblade? i dont have zoldyck
What content do you do?
Keep Garrote on CD basically
glacial bough
@thorny pond m+ and raiding mostly, not really a pvper
thorny pond
If you plan to do most m+ then zold. Raids go doom
thorny pond
Zold does have good raid value too in the mean time. By no means zero sum
glacial bough
aw damn the wing isnt open for zold this week, maybe tomorrow
are there certain stats i want on it? i know youi can choose them
low girder
aw damn the wing isnt open for zold this week, maybe tomorrow
you can spam twisting corridors on layer 3 until you get the right wing if you wanna go that route
just queue and leave
if it's the wrong one
glacial bough
oh really?
low girder
yeah
stoic needle
Haste crit or haste vers for zoldyck
thorny pond
I have a 190 doomblade with mastery on it because I was stupid sick and read my stat weights wrong. So you're never far off @glacial bough
stoic needle
Bet you won't be a total Chad and upgrade it to 235
thorny pond
I probably will at some point. I have like one more upgrade then I will
Just in case
obtuse ruin
Is the necro legendary on ptr?
obtuse ruin
For the necro legendary does it put the dot on 3 targets when you use it on one?
gray fjord
Correct, and the spike initial hit hits all 3 as well. Very efficient CP generation and spread cleave
obtuse ruin
And if the other add dies do you get a charge back?
gray fjord
Also correct.
obtuse ruin
Wow
gray fjord
Yeah it's pretty sweet. xD Nearly* useless in single target but M+ it will be pretty nice if they don't ruin it.
obtuse ruin
Hopefully but knowing blizzard 🌨
low girder
Correct, and the spike initial hit hits all 3 as well. Very efficient CP generat...
does this mean they've fixed the "only cleaves left" bug lol
dim ledge
How hard is assassination compared to outlaw?
gray fjord
does this mean they've fixed the "only cleaves left" bug lol
Mmmm, I hadn't noticed that on the PTR, and I've been using it a lot. 
low girder
that might've only been in the initial version lol
gray fjord
Possibly yeah, I have been binging on 9.1 Torghast stuff and it seems to be working normally for me. I'd have to pay closer attention to anything weird but it seemed normal. I'll have to double check some of my recordings to see if there are any inconsistencies
balmy condor
How hard is assassination compared to outlaw?
they're both fairly easy
gray fjord
They're very different playstyles, so it's hard to say one is harder than another, @dim ledge. Each has their own nuances, though for single target I'd say assassination is easier due to its slower pace and much lower RNG/fluctuation in rotation compared to outlaw.
odd hazel
I find sin more involving during M+
stoic needle
How hard is assassination compared to outlaw?
Easier in ST harder in AOE
short hamlet
Correct, and the spike initial hit hits all 3 as well. Very efficient CP generat...
🤯
I didn't realize the leggo made it dot all three. I thought it was just damage all three. That's so nutters. I'd be very surprised if it goes live like that.
neat tartan
Is Necro way better than Vent in 9.1? (With Legendaries for both) Mythic+ & Raid wise
stoic needle
Mythic plus yes, raid probably not
neat tartan
They're very different playstyles, so it's hard to say one is harder than anothe...
Hello 👋🏻 your rogue videos are helpful 😊
neat tartan
Mythic plus yes, raid probably not
I see 😮
limber lion
No one knows what is good in 9.1
stoic needle
No touchy deathspike 
gray fjord
No touchy deathspike <a:peeporiot:754504511351160946>
I am skeptical that they will.
gray fjord
It's literally like .1% in single target
Even in AoE, it isn't like it's some 30% DPS gain or anything silly
Like, Arcane has a legendary that is a 20% DPS gain. xD Not that anyone plays Arcane, but yeah.
stoic needle
That's incredible
gray fjord
People are just too used to rogue legendaries being unimpressive that when one is actually good it gets declared to be "OP"
low girder
tbf arcane without that legendary is kind of a dead spec in a raid environment 
stoic needle
We still won't be better than monks or other actual aoe classes even with deathspike
gray fjord
tbf arcane without that legendary is kind of a dead spec in a raid environment <...
True, but Blizzard is letting it slide so even if Deathspike is like 12% in M+ I can't see that being unreasonable. There is a direct trade-off you're making to run Deathspike, and that is giving up virtually all single target gains.
MeAnInGfUl ChOIce 
low girder
ye. there's enough tradeoff i think it's ok in this case
gray fjord
It's super fun in Torghast too
Combine that with the Loaded spike power and the 80 yard bone spikes + Unceasing Chainlink and it gets silly. xD 80k Bonespikes from the other side of Torghast. lol
summer socket
what stats are preferred in m+? is it crit? i know we just sim and wear whatever but if we had to pick a stat would crit be the one for m+?
gray fjord
- that stealth power where you deal like 10% more damage for 5 seconds when you leave stealth. I think that stacks like 3 times. I'm sure there is some super memey stuff you could do with it.
balmy condor
what stats are preferred in m+? is it crit? i know we just sim and wear whatever...
in the pins, crit > haste=mast
stoic needle
The new wings, layers and torments are going to be so free with that LMAO
Just machine gun sbs the whole wing down
gray fjord
Yeah I've already been doing Layer 12 5 gem clears even without any new gear or anything on the PTR, it's pretty easy with the bone spike powers.
summer socket
in the pins, crit > haste=mast
Thanks! appreciate the response!
stoic needle
That sucks, I was hoping it would be hard
gray fjord
I also have a lot of the new talent tree open, so that might be part of it
The new torments are ass and I hate them. >>
stoic needle
I'm excited for the new torghast stuff nevertheless, the current version is a snooze fest
gray fjord
I'm glad they're giving it some attention for sure, I just feel like they're missing the mark a bit on things they could be adding/changing.
I really want to see more class-specific powers added for silly weird builds
stoic needle
I'd like to see a plain old difficulty modifier slider
Like
If I want to turn the mobs up to 20
Let me
Let me make their ilvl 300
Torghast Souls 
gray fjord
xD
sharp stump
Looking at the pins there and how it’s saying maintain CT in single target but not during shiv windows, does that apply for vendetta too? Don’t keep it up during vendetta and just pump envenoms?
stoic needle
You should refresh it during vendetta
sharp stump
Easy, cheers legend
stoic needle
They could make it so that turning up the difficulty gets you extra ash just like war mode gives you extra rewards on dailies
So if you want to suffer you can get your legendaries faster but if you don't you get them at the normal rate
stoic needle
Yeah I think the extra floors are where you get the cinders
low girder
hmm
stoic needle
But I could be wrong
stoic needle
What are the adamant vaults then
low girder
nah i just mean the extra floors beyond 5, you have a video on it. you said it's just "torghast placeholder reward"
gray fjord
No clue, I've done them a couple times. You have to complete a Layer 9 or higher with a 5 Gem rating
low girder
lmao
gray fjord
Yeah, it's just a gray trash item right now XD
stoic needle
It would be cool if it was cosmetics
low girder
i only just found the video
gray fjord
I took a few days off for M+ pushing so that one just came out today, so it's all good. xD
Finally getting into the 20 range which is cool
low girder
i think they've discussed on the preach interview they don't want it to be gear
stoic needle
Sad
low girder
so extra ash or cosmetics is kinda the only route they can go
stoic needle
Doing torghast for gear would be sick
limber lion
With 3x Unceasing Chain Link and the 50 yard bonespike power you can literally oneshot all bosses with a single sbs
From max range
low girder
more cosmetics would be nice anyway since TC seems to be uh, dead. unless they add more later on in the ptr cycle lol
gray fjord
That's kinda what I figured too, gear would be a poor choice for reward, but there aren't too many things it could be. Cosmetics/More Cinders/Gear/Anima? maybe
stoic needle
They said they would add more layers to tc later on in the expansion
gray fjord
With 3x Unceasing Chain Link and the 50 yard bonespike power you can literally o...
xD Yeah it's pretty great. Makes it so easy as long as you can stay far away
stoic needle
I hope they add some sick weapon mogs tbh
gray fjord
My guess is a lot of that Torghast/Maw inspired gear will end up in TC or Adamant Vaults, personally.
low girder
they could throw anima into it actually
torghast is the only area that doesn't give any
pvp, raids, m+ all give some now
and world stuff obv
gray fjord
I could see anima, since it's not like Torghast is some super speed-farm or anything. If it only comes from Adamant Vaults then you basically have to clear like EVERYTHING in every floor, so it'd have to give a decent amount but relative to the time spent versus other activities that award anima.
low girder
yeah if they give it a decent chunk. obviously people would be disappointed if that's all it was, but it could be that + cosmetics
limber lion
gray fjord
I'm not expecting like Island Expedition levels of cosmetic rewards, but some nice armor/weapons and maybe a some mounts would be cool, I dunno.
limber lion
Fun stuff
gray fjord
388k XD lol
low girder
https://gyazo.com/c3c56e63f04b793d962f4b4d4a6b1e90
Tactical nuke online
stoic needle
It's funny because they were garbage before the bonespike buff
limber lion
Yeh for sure
gray fjord
Yeah the Night Fae ones are pretty unimpressive in most situations too. Kyrian ones are pretty nuts.
neat tartan
Looks like have to switch Cov 😢
limber lion
The 300% buff really did wonders.
low girder
yeah the only one that's good is if you get the sepsis pop + spread ones
idk what the hell's going on there but something's wrong
and it's great
i miss it
gray fjord
Even the fleshcraft explosion one is good. Get a ton of stam buffs, the 50% fleshcraft shield boost and you become a walking bomb. xD
neat tartan
Will there be some system in 9.1 that helps with Cov switching? I already upgraded all Vent to L3....
low girder
nothing announced or on ptr, no
gray fjord
Will there be some system in 9.1 that helps with Cov switching? I already upgrad...
The only thing they've added in 9.1 is that when you switch covenants, you get your conduit energy refilled.
low girder
the sepsis clap is real fun if you get that combo on ooze boss
neat tartan
The only thing they've added in 9.1 is that when you switch covenants, you get y...
Wut.....
final star
Will there be some system in 9.1 that helps with Cov switching? I already upgrad...
They are dying on that hill unfortunately
gray fjord
Yeah that volatile explosion thing is situationally amazing on Writhing Soulmass, but in most boss fights it's nothing.
gray fjord
Oh yeah, Goxul
final star
It was very good early when rogue struggled to solo torghast
low girder
now you just kinda blast
final star
But it's obviously fallen off
vast iris
Hey, I'm new to rogue in Shadowlands. Been looking around at guides and am confused about the fact that the opener consists of Mutilate to build CP rather than Ambush, even with Subterfuge. How come?
balmy condor
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
vast iris
Thanks!
dawn shard
Hey I was checking out Warcraft logs and the rankings and it seems a lot of people are running EP over Blindside. Is EP the new talent choice or is it still blindside for ST and or if lazy?
balmy condor
pins
dawn shard
cheers
neat tartan
Does Doomblade Legendary gain from Zandalari Troll racial skill, if choose the one with bleed
balmy condor
no
neat tartan
👌🏻
quasi oar
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
carmine island
this is a single target sim, i do get more value from blindside + stratagem. But tring this out i found stratagem to be very cluncky to me, i found rotation much more comfortable with a cap to 5 combo since the double mutilate crit can bring u straight to finisher sometimes. U recomend following raidbots? Also i found that running sim multiple time the answer is always the same so im guessing it consider the average ammount if blindside proc, so in practice it may be different due to rng right? ty for help 🙂
balmy condor
this is a single target sim, i do get more value from blindside + stratagem. But...
a simulation runs anywhere from 10-20 thousand fights, so the answer will always be the same. It also adds variance into the fight length, so there's that
BS/Deeper usually is better, and you can trust raidbots for that, but you can play EP/Vig if you would like
there's nothing really wrong with it
it provides some more burst for sludge pillars and such
limber lion
The difference is so small, so it's likely that you'll see better results with EP/Vig if you're used to playing that and if Deeper Stratagem "feels bad" to play.
carmine island
a simulation runs anywhere from 10-20 thousand fights, so the answer will always...
oh ok didnt know that, so yeah this make sense with numbers
allright thx very much for answering 🙂
carmine island
The difference is so small, so it's likely that you'll see better results with E...
and what about blind + vigor combination? is this bad?
limber lion
and what about blind + vigor combination? is this bad?
Looking at your sim it's 6 dps less than EP/Vig. So pretty much the same.
carmine island
allright, then i'll see what im more comfortable with, atm stratagem is not rly working for me maybe i'll consider it it the future
tyvm 🙂
carmine island
I run ep/Vigor cos it's comfy gaming
yeah kinda agree with u, i'll do some test and see what im more comfortable with
pseudo hamlet
With ~27-28% of haste Vigor feels like an overkill in some occasions with the energy regeneration for me.
Though EP feels better than BS. 😛
final star
Vigor on fights with expected downtime is great too
Since you have a few more seconds of regen available without capping
placid dawn
you regen faster though
that means that for sire vigor is better because of all that downtime in p3
hollow escarp
Vigor on fights with expected downtime is great too
you mean DS? 
because Vigor can cap faster
nvm
need a coffee
final star
Ya'll forgetting the 50 extra energy cap is more than the extra regen gives over the same period
strange python
We need a minimum of haste for ds?
hollow escarp
there is not universal minimum, depends on your gear profile
limber lion
hollow escarp
so sim yourself and see if DS or vigor is better
strange python
<:simself:433007600972333057>
Ok, so we close this forum, the universal answer is "sim yourself" i got it ^^
hollow escarp
tbf, most stuff is as simple as that
stable owl
Hello.What is the best covenant for Sin in M+?
limber lion
Hello.What is the best covenant for Sin in M+?
Necrolord
limber lion
Ok, so we close this forum, the universal answer is "sim yourself" i got it ^^
That, or "read the pins" or "check the guide"
stable owl
Ty
teal bloom
Any thoughts on covenant power standings in 9.1? Do you think the order will remain the same with current info?
limber lion
Probably, but nothing is certain. No one knows.
void needle
When running DS, do you wanna envenom at 4+ during shiv or go 5+?
low girder
Assuming Deeper here, you only finish at 5+
void needle
So finishing at 5+ is more important than potentially missing an envenom during shiv?
low girder
yes
void needle
Cool, thanks!
short geode
Assa rogue is good in any aspect now?
compact pumice
Assa rogue is good in any aspect now?
Yes
short geode
so, tell me about that
short geode
compact pumice
Why it's good? It deals good damage and does useful stuff
solid venture
Do u prio max cp envenom over shiv or just overcap 1 cp and envenom after shiv?
plain thistle
always finish max -1
aa
yes, just shiv
shiv combo point doesnt matter
if you have 5 cb (with vigor) and shiv came off cd, just shiv and envenom (overcap)
ancient cliff
What would be the best covenant for someone dual-speccing outlaw/assassination? I'm guessing it's between Venthyr and Necrolord?
plain thistle
probably necrolord
venthyr is better for assa in single target, but necrolord isnt that far behind
and any target you add necrolord just becomes better
misty holly
Oh how the turns have tabled since 9.0. Come to the dark side faeries. You won't regret it.
flat lagoon
hi all, new to rogue, does any one know a good plater profile to help with keeping track of multi dotting?
steep obsidian
keen frost
Hey guys, is there a certain Haste treshold I want before going for crit? Generaly doing Mythic+ mostly
pseudo hamlet
I think the best thing would be simming yourself.
keen frost
pretty new to assassination, just wanted to know if there are any tresholds. ty
fallen arch
You should ask @balmy condor, he loves these kinda questions
plain onyx
fallen arch
But generally it’s haste>crit=>vers>mastery iirc
keen frost
I joke. Ye i know that much, I'm no muppet.
sonic schooner
fallen arch
Well, for m+ that could work
keen frost
I'm pioneering a way for Vers >>>>> all rogues
fallen arch
Of ur tank likes to pull big
keen frost
ass I can
thorny pond
Crit is going to be top priority. Mastery gains value with multiple targets
You won't want to dump all your haste for it though
tame moss
ok, noted
thorny pond
It sounds contrite, but "sim yourself", use DSlice
thorny pond
Thank you
thorny pond
There was a meme floating around "Default discord avatar, can't wait to see what hateful shit he's gonna say"
shrewd night
I wont say your statement super accurate, but when your gut says something 
odd hazel
thorny pond
Meh, I'm a mastery memer, my takes are often wrong and dubious at best with little to no evidence
shrewd night
@odd hazel
limber lion
Welp, another day, another monke.
thorny pond
?
scenic root
Question for mythic council prog. Do you throw bleeds onto the two other bosses? Or just keep bleeds on main target? With all the movement can't seem to keep up
Also should I run CT for the adds in p2?
thorny pond
For parsing or for prog?
scenic root
Prog
frail fossil
for prog u dont run CT
i think u bleed one guy
but i'm not sure
@limber lion you bleed ur main target and one more boss on council right ?
golden kraken
Im leveling my rogue for 9.1. Since we finished mythic Im most likely just going to be doing pvp and m+ for the rest of the patch. Is necro the way to go then?
thorny pond
All are close, necro is very strong though and SBS is tons of fun in my opinion
gusty mirage
Im leveling my rogue for 9.1. Since we finished mythic Im most likely just going...
Yeah, necro seems to be the pick for assa pvp. And it’s better in m+
short hamlet
i think u bleed one guy
I spent a little time looking into this and the conclusion I arrived at is that the gains for multi-bleeding are minimal at best.
stoic needle
Um
carmine token
I seem to fumble a bit with CT when I run it. Do I just forego the other damaging finisher and primarily use CT for multiple targets (like on the sire fight). I'm already trying to basically keep my dots on both sword boi and sire in addition to using CT frequently but I just get my brain crossed when I use it
stoic needle
Bleeding extra targets is like +400 dps to your main target
thorny pond
I seem to fumble a bit with CT when I run it. Do I just forego the other damagin...
Practice a bit
stoic needle
I wouldn't call that minimal at best
thorny pond
I'd start with trackers then work from there
wary ice
ct is just a maintence dot
carmine token
I'm just trying to understand CT usage
wary ice
same as rupture
short hamlet
400 DPS from energy gen?
stoic needle
Yes
short hamlet
carmine token
If 2 targets, is CT worth using?
thorny pond
Yes
wary ice
if 1 target ct is worth using
stoic needle
The optimal number is 5 bleeds for the most prio damage, but on council that's hard so you just keep garotte and rupture up on the 2nd boss
carmine token
So should I treat the other finisher as just as keeping up my snd when it's low and only use CT then?
thorny pond
SnD gets auto refreshed with Envenoms
carmine token
Right but if I'm using more CTs + mechs I've found I'm using envenom much less
wary ice
So should I treat the other finisher as just as keeping up my snd when it's low ...
Your priority is Bleeds > snd> CT in low target counts like Sire
ideally none fall
vapid dust
Sorry, what CT stands for?
wary ice
crimson tempest
thorny pond
You can quite easily keep bleeds on sire and remoria
along with CT
especially since Remoria is gone a bit
wary ice
Right but if I'm using more CTs + mechs I've found I'm using envenom much less
if you need to recast SnD honestly you probably fucked up else where, but just recast snd its fine
Honestly if you're at finisher cp just go down the list
short hamlet
The optimal number is 5 bleeds for the most prio damage, but on council that's h...
I am very surprised its 400 dps on your priority target considering its ~30 energy gained per garrote. Rupture is a little harder to evaluate because of it's variability in CP spent.
wary ice
"do my ruptures need to be refreshed? does CT need to be refreshed?" no,no==> env
add SnD in there if downtime fucks you in some way
carmine token
Gotcha
wary ice
ie: the walking section (though you should be able to get to boss fast enough and Throw daggers to get CP for a snd as you land - assuming you need it)
carmine token
More practice needed. Trying to make the switch for my mythic prog group so just trying to clean up my multitarget
thorny pond
Probably go practice a bit in some M+s to get used to keeping bleeds up and tracking
wary ice
Just dont overthink it
wary ice
You're maintaing rupt+garrote on 2 targets
stoic needle
I was wrong, it's actually even more than 400 dps 
wary ice
@carmine token if adds are messing up your bleed uptimes on bosses in p2, you can consider not garroting them
You should be able to comfrotably garrote 3 targets
thorny pond
4th week in a row my vault has had a 226 IQD
thorny pond
For you sure
thorny pond
But you have to proc mastery with it
deft rampart
Does evasion work on anything in sludge fist?
wary ice
his auto attacks if things go south 🤷♀️
stoic needle
sigh
wary ice
if you're looking to troll chains - cheat death is your answer and if you're looking to reduce damage, I believe you can just feint. I dont think anything on that fight needs elusiveness but im going off memory
deft rampart
if you're looking to troll chains - cheat death is your answer and if you're loo...
Thank you
stoic needle
stupid garbage outlaw ring
thorny pond
Evasion works on first boss in SD charge
glacial bough
should i put zold on my feet or legs?
stoic needle
feet if you are gonna mythic raid in 9.1
wary ice
also true, but SD first boss isnt in the Sludgefist fight so
stoic needle
legs otherwise
glacial bough
cool
wary ice
ACtually you might be able to evade the charge sludgefist does?
I literally never tried cause u can just physically evade it
odd hazel
the peice you put a legendary on doesnt matter to much
thorny pond
It's the same logic as Doomblade hand shoulder. KT is penultimate boss next tier, drops high pants
odd hazel
been debating crafting a 235 hands for doom but just got a 226 gloves (have doom on shoulders)
so there goes that last idea
thorny pond
It's fine. I changed my slot around to shoulders. Shit happens
plain thistle
finally a 233 weapon
stoic needle
Shoulder doombladers 
plain thistle
stoic needle
Haste vers which are bis 
gusty mirage
Lmfao ily osh
stoic needle
I've literally never seen 226 gloves this expansion it makes me so mad
gusty mirage
I’m a shoulder doomblader and seeing as I’ve been stuck on council for a month now? I’m more than okay with my decision
echo estuary
In sims it shows me doing Vanish > Mut > Envenom whenever I Vanish. Is that correct? 😮 I've always done Vanish > Envenom
stoic needle
Both is fine, it doesn't really matter either way
gusty mirage
In sims it shows me doing Vanish > Mut > Envenom whenever I Vanish. Is that corr...
Probably a combo point thing
I can’t imagine that level of optimizations nets you a significant amount of dps
odd hazel
@stoic needle Hand doombladers 
stoic needle
I'll be the one laughing when I kill SLG and get 233 shoulders
gusty mirage
Yeah I had 226 gloves and 220 shoulders, made the most sense for me too 
odd hazel
❤️
stoic needle
And kill mythic KT and get 259 shoulders
stoic needle
Yeah I'll pass lmao
odd hazel
tbh arena is the only reason i'd play TBC
gusty mirage
Double rogue was viable though 
wary ice
In sims it shows me doing Vanish > Mut > Envenom whenever I Vanish. Is that corr...
when running vigor its usually worth trying to have 5cp for the vanish to rng into env->mut->env - you dont delay vanish to get to cp though. W/ DS it doesnt matter, you'll never get 5cp in one global so you just hammer on cd and get an env in the MA window. with MFD, you just MFD after env to get 2nd env in window.
alpine latch
It's the same logic as Doomblade hand shoulder. KT is penultimate boss next tier...
If you're not getting CE this doesn't matter though, right?
thorny pond
Not really.
alpine latch
I think the argument is it's a 0.3 - 0.5% bump to get the extra item levels from the final boss of the tier
thorny pond
The logic is you get a 233 and a 235 leggo vs a 226 and a 235 lego
odd hazel
thats fair
alpine latch
Well shit. I was going to make my Zoldyck's tonight but maybe I won't put it on pants
My guild will kill the first 3-4 bosses of Mythic, we just don't go for CE
kindred crescent
i cant seem to crack 7 k sim for rogue
spice spire
Eh - for Zoldyck’s it’s a bit different. The stat value of pants is higher than boots
alpine latch
Oh shit, right
wary ice
I mean
spice spire
For Doomblade gloves and shoulders are the exact same
wary ice
You just make it on the piece with mroe stats, and if you end up getting the 233 of that slot, you just remake it
I mean if the 233 dropped you're like not progging anymore anyways
esp this far into the teir
spice spire
But in the end - If you do aim for CE - that’s kinda whatever man just make it again. I literally don’t do torghast because I have no reason to. I’ll spend a few weeks and remake the piece
short hamlet
https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/316923750073499648/8244156655779...
I feel like that is mislabeled. But yeah if the larger numbers are part of "garrote and rupture off target" then I'll believe it
stoic needle
it's not mislabled
odd hazel
yeah, only way i'd remake is if i get to mythic SLG and get the shoulders
i've never seen them drop on heroic any way so
¯_(ツ)_/¯
stoic needle
the top number is gar+rupture on the off target, the one below is just rupture on the off target, the one below that is just garotte on the off target, and 'no cycle' is no tab mutilating to keep poisons on the other one
those sims are from kojiyama, so they're definitely not mislabled lol
short hamlet
it's not mislabled
I mean mis-labeled may have been a bad way to describe it. Cryptic? T26_Assasination_ doesn't immediately translate to me as "Full dots on a second target".
short hamlet
Got it. I would've expected it to spell it out super clearly, but if that's a limitation in the system that's fine.
Is this assuming standard ST talents?
stoic needle
yeah most likely
i mean koji could have labled it something else but he just chose not to
sick cairn
can anyone help a rogue out?
thorny pond
With?
sick cairn
can anyone craft a rank 4 shoulder?
ill gather mats for it
i dont have the gold to buy
im broke
thorny pond
Server/Faction EU or US?
thorny pond
You'd probably have better luck hitting up trade chat with your request. I can't imagine there are a ton here from US Barth
sinful flicker
so when im simming myself for my vault for mythic +, should i be simming using raidbot's Hectic add cleave or dungeon slice
strange python
!bis
north basin
why people pick elaborate on den myth?
hazy crater
better on cleave
north basin
but cleave its like not that big part of the fight?
hazy crater
for farm it's just more damage overall since p3 dmg rarely matters on farm either
north basin
if playing without CT
k
btw CT vs Poisonbomb. big impact on single target dena myth?
hazy crater
I did prog with blindside but swapped to EB/Vigor on farm
north basin
k
hazy crater
I think CT could just be more dmg on P3 dena because of all the movements
but thats just my feelycraft
north basin
hm interesting
echo estuary
I mean how much damage do you get from poison bomb if he's moved out of it? Lol
glacial bough
do yall still take the general m+ talents even on tyran weaks?
wary ice
I take BS > EP into tyr ToP but thats a personal thing
generally m+ talents are the go to in m+
wary ice
PB's st damage is a spit in the bucket compared to what CT does even at 2 targets
what little damage you gain on bosses in tyr, you lose 2 fold on trash, even during tyr
and subterfuge isnt even that far behind MA in ST
so yeah both those talents would stick around
glacial bough
cool!
echo estuary
I've been debating just taking CT for everything lol
hazy crater
I mean how much damage do you get from poison bomb if he's moved out of it? Lol
well yeah but there are also times the boss is still so
its not that clear cut
compact pumice
I would still go EP/Vig in ToP. Helps on most bosses in there tbh.
It’s still a lot of cleave in ToP
echo estuary
Sounds like too much RNG hoping the boss is still when PB proccs
compact pumice
Ep/(Subt or MA)/Vig/CT
stoic needle
so when im simming myself for my vault for mythic +, should i be simming using r...
Dungeon slice
stoic needle
why people pick elaborate on den myth?
It's for parsing
echo estuary
Feels like our main role on prog is to just push boss hp and only use adds for energy gain since others can destroy adds better than us? Obviously cleave is free but just the mentality going into fights?
limber lion
<@!165215952479322112> you bleed ur main target and one more boss on council rig...
Yup!
stoic needle
Feels like our main role on prog is to just push boss hp and only use adds for e...
Sin has the best 2 target cleave in the game
So our add damage does matter
hazy crater
oh yeah I did like by far the most damage in our raid in P2 as sin
plain thistle
yeah, our p2 damage is really really good, and p3 damage is also very good
I think we only lose to something like WW monk in p2, if he can cleave everything
stoic needle
The only classes that realistically come close to sin 2 target cleave is shadow priest and affliction
strange python
@stoic needle have you ran the numbers or is that just speculation
stoic needle
I haven't run them recently but you can sim it yourself if you don't believe me
You can see by looking at p2 denathrius damage on logs as well
alpine latch
Do you guys swap talents for farm nights? Or do you just run pure ST all night?
echo swallow
What are tomes running on your servers? Still 500g on mine.
stoic needle
200g
limber lion
echo swallow
I can't even imagine 80g Tomes. Shadowcore Oil is still 50g a pop on my server. Feel bad for non alchemists.
Combat Pots are 150g.
stoic needle
I buy agi pots 100 at a time at 200g apeice
I'd consider that cheap af
Considering a 15 key boost is like 30-50k
echo swallow
I don't think you'll ever catch me using agi pots in M+ unless it's the difference between timing a key right at the end but I don't really push that hard.
limber lion
100k for a 16 
hollow escarp
hollow escarp
yes
stoic needle
Get the actual fuck out of here
hollow escarp
everything above 15 is expensive af
limber lion
iron orchid
Considering a 15 key boost is like 30-50k
I usually do one boost raid a week, 80 to 100k per run per person
hollow escarp
because it's actual vanity
stoic needle
Why do the buyers just let themselves get ripped off like that
limber lion
It scales really, really hard the higher you go
stoic needle
Here 16s are like 60-70k
hollow escarp
since I joined horde I only did cooked VIP runs with full melee raids 
like we had 8 demon hunters in the last boost
limber lion
When you get to like 23+, we're talking about several million.
stoic needle
Wow
hollow escarp
and one week before we only had 2 ranged
stoic needle
EU is crazy
limber lion
The thing is Oblivion doesn't let anyone boost higher than 15+
Unless you're over 2k and verified and whatnot
stoic needle
Cringe
hollow escarp
The thing is Oblivion doesn't let anyone boost higher than 15+
you can on alliance solo if you are over 2000 rio
but there aren't that many requests
limber lion
you can on alliance solo if you are over 2000 rio
Yep
iron orchid
That's about the same in my community too
hollow escarp
mostly +17s
warped temple
When you get to like 23+, we're talking about several million.
i remember in bfa we used to sell 19-20s and our cuts were like 350k+ each
limber lion
Need a verified team for that
warped temple
it's a lot of $
limber lion
i remember in bfa we used to sell 19-20s and our cuts were like 350k+ each
Yeah, it's nutty
🥜
hollow escarp
horde is a bit more strict because it's more people and also the requirements are higher
iron orchid
Advertisers that find thosE high key boosts are true winners
stoic needle
Some communities here have ~25k or less cuts for 14s
hollow escarp
Advertisers that find thosE high key boosts are true winners
been advertising for 4 months, no high key yet 
halcyon falcon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
warped temple
yup
iron orchid
Didn't even notice it was Ryfie talking
warped temple
😅
vagrant bison
how can people carry someone in a 20, i struggle to time 16s with the guildies 
limber lion
Ryfie is an OG 
warped temple
im usually here to bother whispyr, but he is probably still sleeping
hollow escarp
best time to bother him
warped temple
haha
iron orchid
how can people carry someone in a 20, i struggle to time 16s with the guildies <...
the point is that most of the people that ask for 20s runs are trying to get to high rio, but don't have a team, so that kind of pay a team for a run
but they usually know how to play fairly well
And that's also probably required in order to even book the boost
limber lion
Or they want to get a really high key which they can then try to do themselves later
iron orchid
I think it works like that in my all-french boosting community
limber lion
Instead of having to push a key up
hollow escarp
yeah, can't even book somebody with low ilvl
for example
for 16 is somewhat acceptable 200-210
hollow escarp
Or they want to get a really high key which they can then try to do themselves l...
and deplete it with pugs like I wrecked my 19 NW earlier
hollow escarp
19
limber lion
Holy fuck nah, it's a 21
gilded belfry
I mean.. I kinda dont get the point boosting 16+. Pure vanity?
gilded belfry
that you wont use
vagrant bison
i don't get the point of boosting at all. Like, i do, but it would just feel bad being carried tbh
echo swallow
I think the only thing I'd ever pay for would be Cutting Edge. And even that's just for vanity and to unlock the vault rewards.
gilded belfry
hell do I know. I dont even see the point of doing 15s once you have ksm. Different strokes
hollow escarp
i don't get the point of boosting at all. Like, i do, but it would just feel bad...
the game has different ways to play it. Some people just farm gold and buy each CE that has a mount for example
limber lion
i don't get the point of boosting at all. Like, i do, but it would just feel bad...
A lot of customers are just very high tier CE players who want to get a weekly done on their alts while they do something else on the side
hollow escarp
I would have bought the Nyalotha mount myself if I didn't wanna raid in the future
but I don't want somebody to see my logs and notice that I bought CE in past
limber lion
Like I had a dude who was willing to double our income because he was afk for 5 minutes in the beginning
He only cared about getting the weekly done whilst afk at work
hollow escarp
and yeah
on heroic full runs it's almost always alts
of geared people
it's just faster to get that gold than pug 10/10
gilded belfry
That I get. Candidly my time is worth more than that once you get past the "but you play for fun" element
limber lion
Most high tier CE players are working 9-5, so they don't want to spend all of their free time reclearing heroic/doing weeklies on their alts.
Yeh pretty much
hollow escarp
the thing I don't get is actually buying rio score
next tier will be different because some people might wanna collect the portals as well
limber lion
Portals?
hollow escarp
+20 in time gives portal to dungeon
limber lion
What the
hollow escarp
just like challenge modes
stoic needle
That is gonna be 💸
limber lion
That's a 9.1 thing? Where does the other end of the portal appear then?
strange python
Pve carry is like what ever, pvp carry is sad
hollow escarp
Or Oribos?
spellbook if they copy challenge modes system
actually the only reason I'm gonna go for all 20s this season, to get some past season score and high key exp
strange python
It's not really fair if people who are genuinely like 1.8k-2.1k cr are vs 2 multi r 1 players and someone getting boosted
hollow escarp
the thing with pvp is that even if you have 50% winrate, you still eventually progress
I have 45% in 2s 
strange python
Time investment
gilded belfry
I'd imagine 20s will get easier naturally as time goes by. Systems inflation scaling and experience with the mechanics will just keep getting better.
hollow escarp
tbf pvp boosting is beyond expensive
hero of the horde/alliance is like 40 mil gold
stoic needle
20s next season will be like 25s or something this season
strange python
People pay the equivalent of that in real money
for people to play on their account etc
pretty sad imo
hollow escarp
hollow escarp
20s next season will be like 25s or something this season
how come?
strange python
Probably someone out there financing an r1 title lmao
hollow escarp
eventually it gets easier, even with their scaling
stoic needle
The ilvl of everything goes up each season
hollow escarp
last season you could boost 18s in time
gilded belfry
eh, thats like 4 grand US. Just buy a used car.
strange python
s4 bfa was free for everything
stoic needle
Don't worry we have torghast powers coming 
gilded belfry
would be fun. Silly, but fun. Be like NW spears all over.
stoic needle
imagine doing keys with torghast powers
You don't have to imagine
It's happening in 9.1
Haven't you seen?
stoic needle
You shouldn't
strange python
I haven't even checked 9.1 changes lol
stoic needle
The full details aren't out there yet
stoic needle
But we will be getting torghast powers
By some method
In keys
Who knows if they will be random or a set selection or class based or all neutral
stoic needle
I haven't even checked 9.1 changes lol
You probably should lol
stoic needle
Especially if you like sub
strange python
I haven't logged in for over a month now
hollow escarp
for 1 week
strange python
I really want to play survival viably haha
thorny pond
survival needs cohesion before buffs. Spec makes no sense
fleet whale
sub will need more than what it is currently getting to be the go to ST spec
stoic needle
I mean it's 200-300 DPS ahead of sin now on the ptr
fleet whale
won't make it the go to spec in raids though, fire sims lower than both arcane and frost
but is still the go to because of how in functions in raid
stoic needle
That's not really a fair comparison because the mage apl is dogshit
And sub has an attractive damage profile
thorny pond
Sub does offer burst but it you're holding dance charges too long it doesn't feel great
thorny pond
Right, but let's say you're at 2 charges and a window comes in 15sec
stoic needle
A window of what?
fleet whale
so sub had a bad damage profile, but suddenly Shadow Techniques and Backstab getting buffed makes it attractive?
thorny pond
Burst* take sludge or SKS for example
stoic needle
It never had a bad damage profile, it was just undertuned
The shadow techniques buff was literally 500 dps
And the new obedience legendary is another 200-300
At the very least it will be competitive
inland hull
This is on the ptr now?
👉
stoic needle
Yes
stoic needle
Burst* take sludge or SKS for example
That's fair. Depends on the duration of the window and how much cdr you can get. But even sitting on charges sub is going to be better in fights with frequent burst widows
thorny pond
For sure. I was pro sub at the start of the xpac and enjoy as a spec, probably 3rd or 4th most. But my brain gets more dopamine from sin
slender trail
pretty certain i know the answer but does the damage bonus of lashing scars apply to all damage done by it (initial damage + every lashing)?
limber lion
pretty certain i know the answer but does the damage bonus of lashing scars appl...
Yes sir.
slender trail
checking now but do you happen to know the typical stack count achievable by a sim bot? meaning, when valuing lashing scars in a sim, i want to compare my typical value against the bots to know if it's over/under/equal valuing the conduit
limber lion
checking now but do you happen to know the typical stack count achievable by a s...
It doesn't really matter, but the bot gets around 21-27 lashes with DS.
It really depends on how many crits you get with Mutilate.
compact pumice
and BS procs
limber lion
Playing IQD and getting lust in the beginning will obviously push it very high
Not playing IQD and not getting lust will pull it down quite a bit
slender trail
right
limber lion
Wouldn't worry about it too much. It's not even worth finishing at max-2 during Flag, so there's not much optimizing that you can do regarding it
Other than pooling slightly before it.
slender trail
naw, just weighing conduits and judging accuracy based on my performance vs bot. but you're right, the difference would be negligible over a typical fight length
as long as i'm not truly terrible*
unkempt solstice
I'm reading the wowhead and icy viens guides, and I'm not sure what legendary to craft, should I do Zoldyck or Doomblade?
silent fossil
both
unkempt solstice
which should I start with? Zoldyck?
silent fossil
do you raid or do m+
unkempt solstice
both
unkempt solstice
m+ prob right now?
silent fossil
zoldyck
silent fossil
legs
unkempt solstice
yeah, don't think there's any crit haste pants
limber lion
It's just that 235 pants give more stats than 235 boots would.
stoic needle
Gloves
limber lion
Gloves and shoulders actually give the same amount of stats.
stoic needle
but there's high ilvl shoulders available from the raid and no high ilvl gloves etc etc
tropic rover
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
short hamlet
For necrolord sin rogue, is there any special use of SBS in raid content? I didn't see anything in the pins
stoic needle
With the ma talent, sbs replaces mut as your first global out of stealth
Otherwise you use sbs during shiv if running emeni and during gemstones if running heirmir
short hamlet
Otherwise you use sbs during shiv if running emeni and during gemstones if runni...
with the caveat that you always use if overcapping, I assume
stoic needle
Yep
But if you use one on the pull and the rest during gemstones you won't overcap
They'll naturally be recharged in time for every subsequent gemstones window
alpine latch
But that's only for opener right? IE - you still vanish -> envenom mid-fight yeah?
You're not re-casting SBS
stoic needle
Yeah it's just to get the dot up
shy dust
Assa gets WPS/poisoned katar from raid in 9.1
thorny pond
Thank god
astral plover
How's sin looking for 9.1?
clever niche
great on ST and OK on stacked cleave where you can maintain dots more or less
we'll get a better look towards the end of the PTR cycle though
thorny pond
Assuming things don't really change, we'll be great for ST, strong cleave and multi target. Same as now
ocean ruin
misty zenith
People play wasteland right in keys?
limber lion
Yep pretty much.
misty zenith
Which potency then?
stoic needle
Lashing
misty zenith
Aight thanks
dark token
do i have enough mastery or do i need to lower it a bit https://i.imgur.com/oq1h4Zh.png
limber lion
Eww
dawn ivy
13.6% is a bit high
muted ridge
stoic needle
do i have enough mastery or do i need to lower it a bit https://i.imgur.com/oq1h...
Yikes
Mastery non-believers 
austere swallow
God I fucking love Torghast
stoic needle
gusty mirage
Hit a 43 million damage envenom once in torghast. Felt great
austere swallow
Pog
velvet nacelle
my crit is trash, like high 20s
can't get any crit items to drop
finally knocked out my plaguefall 15 and no phial. i absolutely HATE that dungeon
zenith wolf
is doomblade a good legendary to go for just m+ as thats all I want to do? im a new rogue so sorry for the noob question
stoic needle
is doomblade a good legendary to go for just m+ as thats all I want to do? im a...
No it's not very good for m+
You should craft zoldyck
zenith wolf
the one htat increases bleeds and poisons? ok will do thank you 🙂
stoic needle
Yep! It's bis for m+
zealous ridge
what fkn powers you take to hit that hard
tidal gorge
Lots of soul remnants, some of the +% damage / +% main stat powers, +400% finisher after shadow step, 5x the envenom damage power. I think the highest I ever saw was 1.8 million as subtlety back in the days before the buffs. Not sure how you get 43 million 
stoic needle
twisting corridors probably
tidal gorge
In twisting corridors I would prefer to grab all the flagellation powers, 80+% crit, and 3x+ lens of elchaver then just crit the boss to death with ~200% haste full dots rolling
gusty mirage
@stoic needle 
balmy condor
:P
gusty mirage
now you have to make a stream discord so I can have all your emotes
gusty mirage
LOL
stoic needle
dark token
100% running it for sire prog today
spice spire
Grats on the weapon ox!
I’m at least getting upgrades on the chest so I can’t bitch TOO hard, but I want to 😡
stoic needle
imagine getting upgrades from the vault
can't relate
i got a ring for my 9.1 sub set
should've picked stygia last week but i picked decanter
dark token
imagine getting upgrades from the vault
no upgrades for 6 weeks so i decided to not do keys last week
¯_(ツ)_/¯
stoic needle
imagine not doing 10 keys every week
dark token
much less effort than running 10 keys a week on 2 chars
frigid kestrel
For SLG Mythic Prog... Zold or Doom?
frail fossil
zold
frigid kestrel
Same for Sire, ye?
limber lion
Yup
frigid kestrel
Gotcha so im saying goodbye to Doom after Sludge. Thats all i needed to know
frail fossil
like imo doom is just the move for sire, like phasing it in P3 and nuking adds is also very important
frigid kestrel
I keep hearing that;
Farm Sire = Doom
Prog Sire = Zold
frail fossil
i thinks u just go doom all the way up
limber lion
I also prefer Doomblade, but most people recommend going full ST with Zoldyck on Sire to maximize p3 damage
silent fossil
what a rush, 1-31 renown in less than 24hr before raid
frigid kestrel
what a rush, 1-31 renown in less than 24hr before raid
Been there twice, it sucks
frail fossil
it's too strong compared to Zold atm tbf, like having 8% more st dmg all throughout the fight is prolly better than just having 10% more dmg when sire hits 30%
hot chasm
what did you go from-to?
silent fossil
venth to nl
frail fossil
one of us
frigid kestrel
Ive been everything except Kyrian
hot chasm
Was gonna go NF->Venth, but now I'm thinking Necro
silent fossil
same now
frigid kestrel
and i dont think i will ever have to go
frigid kestrel
it's too strong compared to Zold atm tbf, like having 8% more st dmg all through...
Sounds legit, i might just go Doom until i see if we have hang ups in P3
and if we do, ill swap
frail fossil
i would recommend doom yeah
stoic needle
idk i think the value of doomblade is lowered a bit if you're running CT
cuz you envenom less
frail fossil
true true
modern python
On 2 targets do you prioritize getting CT or Rupture up in the opener?
stoic needle
and it's more of a gap between PB and CT without zoldyck
limber lion
idk i think the value of doomblade is lowered a bit if you're running CT
Nah it's around the same.
frail fossil
On 2 targets do you prioritize getting CT or Rupture up in the opener?
CT i think
limber lion
Because you also do more damage with Env
frail fossil
wait no u want one rupture at least
tender river
@balmy condor any notable changes in your plater profile? Noticed you made some updates today.
frail fossil
i'm p sure
stoic needle
and idk if swapping between doomblade and zoldyck is a good idea during prog if your p2 timers are tight
balmy condor
<@!167090536602140682> any notable changes in your plater profile? Noticed you m...
nothing crazy, just some filter changes
frigid kestrel
and idk if swapping between doomblade and zoldyck is a good idea during prog if ...
Thats fair, might be somethign ill have to "feel" out then
limber lion
On 2 targets do you prioritize getting CT or Rupture up in the opener?
Rup on both, then ct.
stoic needle
Because you also do more damage with Env
well 50% of the value of doomblade is the dot, the other 50% is the envenom damage bonus. losing envenom casts naturally will lower the value you're getting from the damage bonus
frigid kestrel
But... thats even if we make it pass SLG
dark token
ok i fixed it to execute play super saiyan on sire hp <30% if you have zoldycks equipped https://wago.io/zNSlPi7UW
frigid kestrel
So there is that
stoic needle
frail fossil
and idk if swapping between doomblade and zoldyck is a good idea during prog if ...
i think doom all the way
tender river
nothing crazy, just some filter changes
I wish wago.io would show diffs - I heavily modified yours and wanted to peek at the differences to see if I should adopt any of them
limber lion
well 50% of the value of doomblade is the dot, the other 50% is the envenom dama...
Yes, but they sim similarly because you get the extra 5% envenom damage from CT.
stoic needle
if my gang of monkes can almost down it anyone else can
limber lion
It's +-0
silent fossil
slg sucks even on farm if your raid is playing like chimps
balmy condor
I wish wago.io would show diffs - I heavily modified yours and wanted to peek at...
I just blacklisted trinkets and stuff, no need to update :)
low girder
slg isnt that bad
you're required to ping shiennar when you say that
tender river
I just blacklisted trinkets and stuff, no need to update :)
Cool, thanks! I probably have that covered then, a lot of what I did was stripped down the icons over the plates to focus only on my bleed timers to de-clutter
limber lion
slg isnt that bad
Have you killed it?
limber lion
Sick.
silent fossil
every week is a coin flip for us on slg
stoic needle
and people actually soak the eruptions
silent fossil
one shot it, then take 15 attempts because people dont stop pushing shit too early etc
stoic needle
our raid group actually holds dps when told to
silent fossil
that seems nice
stoic needle
i'm actually the main inter because i sbs commandos in the intermission when we're supposed to be single targeting the goliaths
old depot
Hey folks. Progressing on Mythic Sludgefist for the first time. Any heads up pointers and good to knows I should be aware of?
limber lion
Sync everything, maximize pillar windows, use Vendetta early
old depot
Vendetta on pull, 2, 4 is my current assignment
frigid kestrel
Did they change SBS/Blade Flurry interactions in PTR yet? Or is that as intended?
shit thats also a OL question
old depot
Shiv on CD or hold?
limber lion
But use Vendetta 3s into the encounter
old depot
But use Vendetta 3s into the encounter
Any reason why
limber lion
Any reason why
Wouldn't be ready for second pillar if you didn't.
limber lion
Yep
old depot
Hold 2nd flag for pillar?
balmy condor
yes
limber lion
Yes
old depot
Any defensives with feint/cloak I should be aware of
silent fossil
feint the charges
limber lion
Feint before pillar hits, nothing else.
ionic kelp
could run it on slg
leaden timber
Has anyone tried flayedwing trinket?
ionic kelp
i think it double dips on blades
stoic needle
stoic needle
Has anyone tried flayedwing trinket?
it's bad
leaden timber
Really?
stoic needle
really
leaden timber
I was thiking it would inc in dmg during shiv no?
balmy condor
pinned answer 
silent fossil
i never got a phial in the vault during the period of time i was motivated to run m+ so now i just get one shot at it per reset 
modern python
When would you use Flagellation in an AoE opener? Garrote 3-4 mobs -- Flag -- CT?
Or do you use it later into the pull
whole mason
Anything updated this week on PTR?
balmy condor
Anything updated this week on PTR?
no
balmy condor
When would you use Flagellation in an AoE opener? Garrote 3-4 mobs -- Flag -- CT...
yep, sounds good
zenith wolf
what secondary stats should I go for my zoldycks for pure m+?
plain thistle
crit/mastery most likely
balmy condor
crit haste is fine