assassination

[swift dragon]

it just hurts my head

i need a basic clean gui with buttons brain work bad

[compact pumice]

I did from Elvui and I was so surprised with how much better it was. Just take a good popular profile from Wago and then tweak it when you find something missing.

[hollow escarp]

that's my ui basically, took stuff from multiple profiles 😄

also I still have long numbers after that elvui update from months ago

[compact pumice]

Mine is specially set up for M+ to highlight important mobs and important casts etc. I can see some being as well made for PVP etc

Also percentage phasing markers for bosses

[hollow escarp]

those are nice indeed

[compact pumice]

Might be possible with Elvui, but I didn't have it before so that's what I'm comparing with.

I have my important dots highlighted and on the side compared to the other ones I find interesting and haven't blacklisted yet

[hollow escarp]

I like the idea of plater changing colors when there is SBS on the target

but I'm too used to threat color plates

to change it now

[compact pumice]

I guess you can have 3 new shades for the threat colors for SBS + each threat level

[placid dawn]

just add glow to nameplate if it has SBS

no need to complicate stuff

[north basin]

guys any info on catch up on conduits? like if mine are 213 mostly with only raid 226 ones, do i need to go ham for all 226 ? or in 9.1 there will be quick catchup

[swift dragon]

probably

I would highly doubt therre not being conduit catchup

although if the new torghast changes are anything to go by

[placid dawn]

they will just drop at higher ilvl from raids and m+

just like regular gear

[hollow escarp]

found a decent weakaura for what I was looking for in case somebody else needs it https://wago.io/hX5EODVcY

[frosty bridge]

Rank 4 MA vs Rank 1 zoldyck in a +20?

First time sin rogue in M+

[young herald]

This is the Plater profile I use: https://wago.io/g-jp-v2zw with some font tweaks / position tweaks cause I'm sexually attracted to Fritz Quadrata TT font, here's how it looks

[heavy trail]

darn did my own key and we timed the SD 11 lol... now got a NW 12

[bleak sky]

one step closer to the ksm

[heavy trail]

I wish.. haha I had to do that key again since I got the same one I had completed the week before lol

Not a fun dungeon on this week's affixes that's for sure

[vestal wren]

have fun

[plush garnet]

Whats the covenant move for 9.1

[slow tulip]

guy, in M+ at how many targets can i just spam CT instead of envenom if i dont have a prio target ?

[vestal wren]

yes

[plush garnet]

😂

[vestal wren]

come back when we are closer to 9.1 ^^

[plush garnet]

Sounds good

[swift dragon]

probably still venthyr/necro

but could vary wildly

so anyones guess

[vestal wren]

maybe the make the night fae legendary actually useable, or op

[zealous ridge]

when we run stratagem, its pretty normal to get only 2 5-6 combo point envenoms in shiv phase right?

Because I'm absolutely struggling to get 3 off.

[bleak sky]

All of our PTR data is feelcrafting and early sims atm. We won't have a full picture of things for a couple weeks with tuning etc. Please try to avoid stating things as absolute truths. All will be revealed with time. Some initial feels/sims on legendaries:
Kyrian doesn't seem all that great.
Fae is in the running for the worst legendary to exist.
Necro seems crazy good in aoe, might see nerfs
Venthyr early sims have it around 2.5-3% behind doomblade, if it is implemented how we think. The PTR version is bugged in a million different ways, making it hard to see true intention of this one

#2 pin

[plush garnet]

Gotcha gotcha gotcha

[bleak sky]

I think you only get 3 if you get lucky/have lust up

[zealous ridge]

Alright dope wanted to make sure

[honest karma]

Think you just keep ct bleed up and spread rupture and garrote
Start using envenom when targets are soon dying

[ebon notch]

does sbs increase envenom damage with gloom leggo?

doom* leggo even

smh

[tulip nacelle]

yes

[ebon notch]

does the opener change much when you're necro?

ive seen some people open with sbs instead of mutilate

[swift dragon]

that would be wasteful of MA

but idk if the few extra ticks of SBS are worht it

[rocky pecan]

you sbs / then slice

[honest karma]

Yeah been thinking that aswell, if u sbs into slice. If that slice doesnt drop the dmg from sbs instead if mut shouldnt really matter too much?

[swift dragon]

wait does SBS proc seal fate ?

[swift dragon]

is this running MA ?

[hollow escarp]

yes

[swift dragon]

why

[hollow escarp]

noticed last night that SBS got deflected

[honest karma]

Yeah thinking of testing that, and staving one global in opener is pretty nice

[hollow escarp]

so had to cast mutilate as well

[honest karma]

Ouff

[swift dragon]

waht is the point of running MA here

youre wasting cp

just run sub

[hollow escarp]

probably because Sudden Fractures?

no clue

that's the APL though

[swift dragon]

someone sim MA/sub as necro pls

[honest karma]

Killed xymox last night, first mut, rupture and another mut got parried in opener 😭

[swift dragon]

i cant am at work

[placid cobalt]

sorry guys, maybe it's been discussed already but is it worth to give PI on vendetta in mythic raid over giving it to DK or hunter? been looking for some numbers about it but havent found anything recent

[hollow escarp]

subt opener

[sacred isle]

With army nothing beats dk

[placid cobalt]

even assuming that in p3 sire you would get 2 vendetta lining up with 2 pi?

[swift dragon]

this makes

so little sense

my brain is hurting

sim bot works in mysterious ways

[hollow escarp]

well, it was discussed earlier today as well

opener makes little difference in longer fights

[swift dragon]

i know but this makes 0 sense

[honest karma]

Yeah true, that should be pinned as an example to why ppl shouldnt care more about the opener than to feed themselfs

[swift dragon]

openers are decently important as sin

more so on venth

[honest heath]

are there any trinkets in raid worth aiming for? Seems the top ones come from dungeons, i.e., IQD and phial.

[hollow escarp]

you nailed it

[swift dragon]

phial, hymnal, iqd iirc

[hollow escarp]

those are good chase items

in raid

all mythic ones

[honest heath]

hymnal? which one is that? I also got stone legion trinket last night but it just sims ok...but flat vers never hurts while trying for the other ones I guess haha

[hollow escarp]

hymnal is the caster version of SLG Heraldry

but drops on Sire

[honest heath]

oh the cabalist one?

[swift dragon]

yeah

gives a lot of haste iirc

always good for sin

[hollow escarp]

no main stat though

[honest heath]

i think it gave crit

[swift dragon]

is main stat that important for sin ?

[hollow escarp]

yes

[honest karma]

Wait the intelect book? Is it good for sin??

[swift dragon]

no

ignore me

[hollow escarp]

lol

[swift dragon]

im throwing dumb ideas around

[honest heath]

i'm so confused now lol

[honest karma]

Haha i was starting to plan who in my guild i should trick to give it to me 😂

[hollow escarp]

I think somebody even simmed the soul ruby for crit, but it's not worth it because the agility is too good from a regular trinket

[honest heath]

my wife would kill whoever would trade that to a rogue...she mains mage

[swift dragon]

what spec

[hollow escarp]

frost?

[honest heath]

frost

[honest karma]

Haha yeah if i made someone trade it to me i would be benched for life 😂

[hollow escarp]

[swift dragon]

leave her

[honest heath]

hey now...frost was OP when I met her in TBC

[hollow escarp]

frost > fire

[fallen arch]

Frost is really good tbh

[swift dragon]

arcane>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fire>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>forst

frost is literally

put brain in freezer

press shiny button

[hollow escarp]

great

[honest heath]

fire is just button smash every minute though

[shrewd night]

And thats like

[swift dragon]

yes

[shrewd night]

Your opinion

[honest heath]

while jumping

[honest karma]

Frost isnt too bad tho, combust is just too good

[swift dragon]

also yes

oh frost and fire are both better than arcane

but they're beta specs

[rocky pecan]

you just explain how every work since 2 or 3 xpac actually

btw

[fallen arch]

Have you tried it?

[honest heath]

yes

[swift dragon]

big brain/big dick players play arcane

[hollow escarp]

arcane for mage is like sub for rogue

[swift dragon]

no

[honest heath]

I have a 60 mage I made to spite my wife by being fire lol

[swift dragon]

arcane mage is its own thing

like

[dull cloak]

arcane pumps wym

[swift dragon]

it just exists outsidee of every other spec

[hollow escarp]

not comparing tuning, just popularity

[swift dragon]

we're so bored that at this point

weve calculated using some obscenely broing maths that casting frosbolt is a dps gain as kyrian

we have

outsmarted the sim bots

[honest heath]

but to my trinkets...guess i'll use my SLG until I can get an IQD and phial

[honest karma]

Dreadfire and skulkers are fine aswell

Just dont killurself with skulkers

[honest heath]

yeah....my druid has skulkers..and it feels weird

[hollow escarp]

skulkers is not as bad if you play a while with it

but you can't shut down brain while using it

[honest karma]

Yeh the charge is abit inconsistent and its annoying

[hollow escarp]

just like dreadfire

it's good to avoid knockbacks

[honest heath]

I got the sins trinket from inerva the other day...is that decent?

[hollow escarp]

from mythic?

[honest heath]

no heroic

this guy is like fresh 60

[hollow escarp]

dungeon trinkets at 220 will be better

but the mythic one is nice

[honest heath]

working my way up on the dungeon trinkets...got out alt m+ group set

[honest karma]

Check bloodmallet, they got a nice list with trinkets etc.

[pallid quiver]

do we have any idea what covenants are going to be bis in 9.1 yet?

[hollow escarp]

🔮

[honest karma]

Impossible to say at this point, they might change it last second

[honest heath]

they could nerf necro again lol

[honest karma]

But for now necro / venthyr

Max ur renown on all if u want to prepare

[hollow escarp]

it was kyrian/nf in the beginning of the patch

as popularity at least

now venthyr and necro are slightly better

safest thing to do is farm renown

so you have every covenant ready

[honest heath]

do you keep the covenant conduit when you switch and go back?

[hollow escarp]

it's not a waste to play heroic week next tier with the "bad" covenant because you can swap every week

[honest heath]

or do you have to farm it again?

[hollow escarp]

you keep everything

[honest heath]

ok cool

I just got necro to like 33 renown...debating about trying venthyr before 9.1 hits

[honest karma]

Push to 40 and swap id say

[hollow escarp]

I would if I were you, it's pretty nice in raid

but yeah, after 40

[honest heath]

I mostly went necro because I thought I'd play outlaw in keys...but I didn't really enjoy the feel of outlaw in SL

[clever niche]

so I started progression on SLG last night, some of the most fun I've had with the spec in ages

[hollow escarp]

how come?

[clever niche]

copied a build similar to the top ranked logs without PI from wcl and throwing up dots and juggling boss and add damage feels awesome

[exotic rose]

Hey guys, is there a bug where sometimes you don't get serrated bones spikes refunded?

[shell ivy]

I think it has happened quite consistently to me if I were to snipe kill a mob

[exotic rose]

ye

[swift dragon]

for SLG you want planning/MA/Vigor/CT and Zoldycks

[final star]

We've found him guys

The only person who enjoys slg

[hollow escarp]

I don't mind it either

but took us 2 nights to reach phase 2

[swift dragon]

I love SLG

[clever niche]

yeah oldname that's exactly what I'm working with

[swift dragon]

one of the top 3 fights in raid imo

SLG, xymox, Sun King all gigapog fights

Sire and Huntsman close behind

[hollow escarp]

I kinda hate Sun King and Council

[swift dragon]

council and sludgefist are hyperass

[final star]

Yeah but you're fucked in the head most of the time

[hollow escarp]

but I enjoyed Huntsman, Xymox and Inerva so far

[final star]

[swift dragon]

sludgefist as a monk is just 5 mins of pain

none of your cds line up

you cant do monk things

pure st to no adds with which t get good damage

it just

sludge as a melee is literally

[hollow escarp]

🚪

[swift dragon]

"are you a ret pally" ?

"no"

"then fuck you bud"

innerva is fun

[final star]

SLG has to be one of the worst fights I've ever done

Where bosses health is wholly inconsequential

[swift dragon]

slg is so much fucking better than council and sludge

[swift dragon]

idk why this triggers everyone

its a very cool mechanic

[final star]

How can we improve mythic

I know

Make it windy

[hollow escarp]

not a bad mechanic though

[swift dragon]

the thing about SLG

is it actually gives you the feeling that youre fighting the stone legion

not jsut 2 dudes

[final star]

Does it

[swift dragon]

so it actually is really good execution

[final star]

I've never been more bored

Than during slg prog

[swift dragon]

please exlpin how you find sludge/council/hungering to be more enjoyable

[hollow escarp]

the thing is that the fight looks easy on paper, and phase 1 goes so fast

[final star]

It's literally fighting the same m+ pack

[bleak sky]

hungering = pewpew big dps

[final star]

For 8-10 minutes

[bleak sky]

sludge = pewpew mega big dps

[swift dragon]

not as monke

[hollow escarp]

more like pewpew, sniped, dead

[bleak sky]

oh I missed the train then

[bleak sky]

you only get sniped if you're slacking tho

[final star]

No one said council sludge or hungering were more enjoyable

Well, not me anyway

SLG is just less enjoyable than that even

[bleak sky]

quick question that might've been asked before but can't find it

is there a # for average runs to drop a phial

[hollow escarp]

if you ask me, it drops on 3rd key

[bleak sky]

or do I have to do the math myself

[odd heath]

For me it is between 1 and 16 runs

1 on an alt

[hollow escarp]

I've had 3 phials so far

[odd heath]

16 on my main

[final star]

It took me like 10

It took my friend 49

It's random

[bleak sky]

yeah but there's a loot table with x items
2 drops from n classes tables
1/y chances to drop a phial for someone in the party

I just don't wanna do that math

[misty zenith]

You guys running theotar for M+?

[hollow escarp]

yes

wasteland

[misty zenith]

With Refined?

Aha

[final star]

That's the probably of it dropping

[hollow escarp]

refined is not bad, but wasteland is better

[misty zenith]

Icy veins just said refined

[final star]

Not how many runs it takes to get it

The chance of seeing one will obviously diverge the more of a sample size you have

[final star]

But it is literally x chance for every dungeon you do

[wary ice]

@bleak sky nerds did it for you.

[hollow escarp]

I actually contributed to that data

constantly upload to wowhead 😄

[final star]

Yeah he's all 891/9176

[misty zenith]

IS wowhead more up to date then for the conduits?

[swift dragon]

just play monke

[hollow escarp]

it's data collected from people that have the app

[swift dragon]

its literally a faceroll fight

[final star]

Ah yes let me just take my Monk that is 201 to SLG

[swift dragon]

you dont even have to care about cryst soaking cause you can just pop kyrian pots

[swift dragon]

mine is 210

[final star]

My new guild isn't even at SLG yet

Since we're newly formed

[swift dragon]

re we takling mythic slg ?

[final star]

Yes

[swift dragon]

oh lmao

[hollow escarp]

I applied to a Sludge guild and they killed it the same night I wrote them

[swift dragon]

yeah i am irrelevant in that ase

case*

[final star]

Hc slg is legit faceroll

[torn atlas]

Sun King is worst fight of raid. Slg is second.

[final star]

I was in an 8/10 guild for a week

Now I left for CasualBusters

[hollow escarp]

I would say Council is as bad as SLG

[final star]

[hollow escarp]

just SLG needs more pulls

[odd heath]

Slg and council worst fights in raid

[hollow escarp]

but that's from rogue pov

[swift dragon]

sludge is by far the worst

[final star]

Cos the guild I was in was raid log only smh

[torn atlas]

I'm only a hc raider so my opinion on it doesn't actually matter haha.

[swift dragon]

designed for a smooth brain wheelchair class

tbh council would be fine i

[odd heath]

I really like M sire, sludge and altimor

[thorny pond]

Professor X was in a wheelchair

[swift dragon]

if it wasnt for evasive lunch

fuck evasive lunge

its so fucking dumb

the hitbox is a fucking slot machine

[hollow escarp]

well, get better tanks

[swift dragon]

its just a shit mechanic

[hollow escarp]

it's a non mechanic

with good tanks

[final star]

No?

[swift dragon]

professor X is a cuck

[final star]

It literally does not exist

[swift dragon]

well you have to kill stavros at one point

[hollow escarp]

yeah, 2nd phase

[final star]

Then stand on his side

[swift dragon]

i do

[final star]

Then your tank is

[swift dragon]

but the hitbox is so fucking huge i still get hit despite beign 5 yards away from tank

[final star]

If you're getting hit by it

[torn atlas]

You don't need to stand in evasive tho.

[swift dragon]

probably hes ilvl 170

[final star]

[hollow escarp]

posted this yesterday from a tank that was complaining that he keeps dying

[shrewd night]

I dont know whats worse. Being 170 or being hit by lunge.

[hollow escarp]

we killed Council with a 210 ilvl bdk

[final star]

Bdk is good

[shrewd night]

Bdk

[swift dragon]

we killed sire with 170 bdk

[hollow escarp]

80 pulls

council

[swift dragon]

i gotta go i have an actual job to do fuck

[final star]

Yeah I've killed hc sire with a 180ish bdk too

Our pally kept getting clapped to fuck at like 206

[swift dragon]

tanks's egos are so infalted by everyone telling them its the hardest role

its fucking not

[final star]

Turns out he didn't have a legendary

Did a 16 Spires with him tanking too

[swift dragon]

tanking is literally faceroll

[final star]

With no legendary

[swift dragon]

sounds about right

[final star]

Tbf he's a good player

Ex top 10 raider

[swift dragon]

i should honestly start playing tank i cant take tehse fucking smoothbrains anymore

[final star]

I tank on my druid in kegs

Leys

KEYS

[swift dragon]

lmao

[final star]

It's not hard

I have ksm as boomy and bear at this point

It's literally brain afk gaming

Me incarn

Me unkillable

[heavy trail]

What's the most fun tank ya think ?

[final star]

Fun is subjective

[shrewd night]

[heavy trail]

Ok, rediirect, what's generally the most fun for most people who have never really tanked seriously 🙂 ?

[timber basalt]

bear is pretty straightforward

[heavy trail]

@final star Well it sounds like you would fit the emotional profile at least 🙂

[final star]

Zero emotion

Makes tanking easy

Idiot dps pulled?

Oh well I tank it

Idiot tank pulled

I still tank it

Cos me idiot

[hollow escarp]

I like bdk 🙂

[heavy trail]

I think I might try it abit also just have to decide on which toon haha. Can probably easily do paladin and druid since I have semi geared 60s

[final star]

Paladin is highest apm in game

Druid is very easy

And very tænkt

[hollow escarp]

paladin is a shield factory

[heavy trail]

the whole mass grip thing is neat along with the undead controlling

I tried my 12 TNW a bit ago and it was a failure right off the start but probably my fault i picked some tards who only had a few timed 10+... they couldn't figure out to kill the worms on fortified first boss....

[bleak sky]

it's supposed to be hard on sire and sire only

legit the only fight tanks should have problems with

everything else is just afk snoozefest

[heavy trail]

so prot paladin most damage tank ?

[bleak sky]

yes

also the squishiest

[bleak sky]

bdk for someone who never tanked before is just a bait lmao

[hollow escarp]

yeah, my first healer was disc as well

[bleak sky]

KEK

masochist player I see

[spice spire]

I also like bdk - I prot pally’d in mists on an alt for normal vaults

[swift dragon]

Bear/Brew/Blood

[spice spire]

But bdk has the yoyo game 🙂

[final star]

brew is my fave to play

but it's got a high skill cap

[swift dragon]

brew is just press everything

its the easisest tank to play imo

you just dont take damage

[final star]

for an experienced player they are all easy lol

[swift dragon]

yeah tanking isnt a hard role

the specs are easy

[final star]

if a tank dies

it's literally their fault

[swift dragon]

the only thing thats actually hard about tanking is the amount of pretending you need to do

[final star]

any time I've died tanking

it's always been my own mistake

[swift dragon]

true for everything aside from brew sometimes

[final star]

most tanks don't play with rogues

as in, pugs

that pisses me off

I need to make legendary

that isn't MA

Cos celerity no fun

[bleak sky]

I'd say vengeance/druid/prot pally

[heavy trail]

Thanks

[bleak sky]

bdk is super fun but you gotta be decent to not die to random shit

[final star]

U have to know that you can live a hit

And death strike it back

[bleak sky]

^

[thorny pond]

And manage your CDs

[last imp]

vengeance is the most fun imo, then brew then bdk

from my experience anyway

[final star]

Vdh most fun if you enjoy runninh

[last imp]

i simply like to be a bouncy tank !

[swift dragon]

vengeance, brew, bear

[heavy trail]

stay away from prot pallies ?

[alpine latch]

With my current rogue being new, I don't know when Zoldyck's is available. Would it be in my best interest to make a rank 1 DS for now in case it's a couple of weeks before Colheart is up in Torghast?

[final star]

just do twisting corridors

til you get coldheart

as first

enter > exit > enter

repeat

til you get it

[alpine latch]

Oh? TC can drop them?

[final star]

yh

[alpine latch]

Fuck my life

okay

[heavy trail]

@sharp nimbus Doncha have to complete it up to level 3 first ?

[final star]

yes

ofc

[alpine latch]

Ahh

Then fuck that

[final star]

it only drops in 3+

but 1-2

is like

faceroll easy

and easier than waiting week(s)

[alpine latch]

My rogue is 155 item level right now

[final star]

so?

[alpine latch]

Can I actually do it that low?

[final star]

ofc

you only need to do floor 3

not floor 8

and even then it's only til you get the legendary

[heavy trail]

well still takes some time as if you try to even the first few without abilities you gonna get torched

[final star]

just go sub

it's faceroll

buy some green daggers if u have to

[heavy trail]

Highly agree with that if you want to do it

[alpine latch]

I'd rather make a rank 1 DS and sit on SA than spend 4-6 hours in TC

[final star]

It's 1-2hrs

At most

If u not pleb

[alpine latch]

For a 0.6% upgrade I just don't see it being worth the time

When any dungeon gives me a far bigger upgrade

[brazen eagle]

Zoldycks bis for m+ or something?

[final star]

Not particularly

I actually think MA is better

[brazen eagle]

Thought so

[alpine latch]

Zoldyck's is just a good "overall" legendary

[brazen eagle]

Zoldycks for execute phases

[final star]

I just press talents > outlaw when I wanna do m+

[alpine latch]

I'm trying to get set up to run m+ and raid ASAP, so I was going to go that since it would perform okay at both

[brazen eagle]

Like really long lasting adds or bosses 30% and below which is rare in m+ cases

[final star]

[brazen eagle]

Palmer go doom blade

[alpine latch]

That's the Mutilate causes bleed from Council, right?

[brazen eagle]

You get best of both worlds

[alpine latch]

That seemed strong in both as well

yeah

[brazen eagle]

Well

So if you have garrote/rupture/sbs up your envenom does 5% for each bleed active meaning if you got on more than one target it also counts

[alpine latch]

I just made this rogue Monday night and my guild is wanting to bring me to heroic tonight to gear me up before they go into Mythic farm

[hollow escarp]

wait, did somebody recommend doomblade for m+?

[final star]

that's not how it works

[brazen eagle]

No

[final star]

it's literally current target only.

not all targets

[brazen eagle]

Did not recommend for m+ but it’s best in all situations IMO

[alpine latch]

Since my rogue is less than a week old and CI isn't up, I'm trying to figure out what's the best legendary for me to get by the end of the week

[amber mountain]

#NotAllTargets

[alpine latch]

I'm trying to get set up to not be a complete embarrassment in both raid and m+ ASAP

[amber mountain]

Then you want zoldyck

[ionic kelp]

if you are doing high m+ doomblade isn't a bad option either since you are there to just cd prides/bosses/cc everything.

[final star]

yup

literally nothing is explicitly bad

[amber mountain]

Yeah, but if they're jsut getting started, that's not what their role is going to be

[final star]

his guild is reclearing mythic he said

so I literally don't think it matters what his role his

[alpine latch]

Bro I'm 155 item level

I'm not clearing high keys

I just want something to hold me over.

This character was created 4 days ago

[final star]

just make zldyck

it's good everywhere you want

[alpine latch]

I'm not running TC

[final star]

and it'll only be 190

then guess you're limited for choice then

between MA

and Doomblade

[echo estuary]

TC as in twisting corridors? That thing you can reset until you have the zone you want that gives your leggo?

[alpine latch]

Evidently, yeah

[final star]

Have you

Done tc

On any character

It works the same as torghast wings

[echo estuary]

It's really easy as rogue. Stealth by everything and get powers from pots. Super fast

[shrewd night]

Wasting ash on a legendary you will not use in the long run is probably the most inefficient you can be.

[final star]

Yup

[echo estuary]

Also covenant campaign gear > leggo imo when starting out anyways.

Jump all the way to 190+ super ez

[stoic needle]

Yeah, no

Trash becomes more and more dangerous the higher you go

[thorny pond]

Zolds gains value in higher keys

[stoic needle]

You can't afford to sacrifice your overall damage and use a single target legendary

Except for some dungeons where the pulls are small

[dull cloak]

maybe they will let us refund soulash in 9.1

[stoic needle]

They won't

[ionic kelp]

you could if you are playing with competent people, its not like your major damage falls off that heavily. and if you are playing correctly as well. you're only there for cc not damage. no one cares if you pump 6.5-7k if a cast goes off

[shrewd night]

Even if that's true it's inefficient as fuck

[slow marsh]

they confirmed no refunds

only swapping stats

[stoic needle]

This is not true at all

[ionic kelp]

im not saying that its the best but its not a bad option

[stoic needle]

Your damage does fall off a lot because you don't get value from doomblade half the time

And you can't afford to bring someone to a key who's not pulling their weight aoe wise

[slow marsh]

Just do MA for m+ if you dont want to craft zold

[shrewd night]

Bringing doomblade to a high is just straight inting. Saying otherwise use just poor taste.

[stoic needle]

If you're doing theater of pain or sanguine depths or plaguefall you can argue for doomblade, but otherwise you're inting

[polar cape]

Meh zol on first boss is kinda nuts anyway

[shrewd night]

Baiting for reactions by saying to just not play x spec is poor taste too.

[polar cape]

In top

[stoic needle]

Yeah zoldyck is fine in top too

But doomblade is kinda nice for the bosses on tyrannical and the minibosses on fortified

[ionic kelp]

ofc situation matters but when i did it in a 19top and 20 spires it felt fine enough, not the highest of keys but worked well. ofc if i had the option i would always bring zoldy

but i forgot to switch

[stoic needle]

Just because you did it doesn't mean it's good

Jpc literally did a 24 with no legendary at all

[frail fossil]

yeah and no offence but like if u think ur role as a rogue in a key is CC and pride dmg just play outlaw unironically, assa can have much better dmg output in some keys but is also worse at pride dmg/ccing than outlaw, so if u play sin in m+ u should talent in what is the biggest gain in DPS as it's the only thing going for you over outlaw

[ionic kelp]

and the situation of which i replied and whyi mentioned doomblade was because the guy was talking about raid and m+, whihc ofc db would be the better option

[stoic needle]

But it's not

[ionic kelp]

for raid

[stoic needle]

You aren't inting if you run zoldyck in raid

But you are if you run db in 5/8 m+ dungeons

[ionic kelp]

never said it would be inting to run zoldyck, just that db would be the better option

especialyl for a new character

[shrewd night]

...but it isnt

[ionic kelp]

in reclears

[stoic needle]

Who cares about raid dps in reclears???

[final star]

But it's not

[shrewd night]

Like

[frail fossil]

idk like saying you are just here for prides and cc in high m+ gotta be one of the most fried takes

[stoic needle]

Sin does do good pride dmg

But no one takes a class to a key just for pride dmg and cc

[ionic kelp]

ya it probably is, and im probably wrong but thats just how my groups work out to be

[stoic needle]

And then hopes the other 2 can carry your ass in overall

[frail fossil]

i mean outlaw does rly fucking good pride dmg too

as assa u talent away from a lot of good ST talent for m+

which make their ST dmg not that good anymore

[stoic needle]

Yeah we simmed that tho and sin still does more ST than outlaw in m+ talents

[brazen eagle]

No one cares about pride dmg bring a mage or boomie pride isn’t a problem

[frail fossil]

fried take

[brazen eagle]

🙂

[strange python]

What is a “fried take”

[brazen eagle]

No idea

[final star]

Boomie is not going to do pride damage

[hollow escarp]

cooked take

[frail fossil]

an opinion that is not very good

[ionic kelp]

no clue

[final star]

If they do they are using their CD's incorrectly

[brazen eagle]

22+ keys sure burst pride. And what? Boomie not good pride dmg?

Lul

“Fried take”

[frail fossil]

bro when do u ever see boomie popping CA convoke on pride

when

[strange python]

Lol

[brazen eagle]

They don’t have to?

[final star]

They do like 3.5k dps on pride dude

[brazen eagle]

Pull astral, get 40%dmg buff star surge

[final star]

That's nothing

[frail fossil]

u realize boomie ST dps outside of CA convoke is literally nonexistent

[brazen eagle]

I get that. Lol

[hollow escarp]

bring a boomie for pride

[final star]

I literally alt boomy

[brazen eagle]

But y’all said “pride dmg earlier” I said bring a boomie or mage

[final star]

And wish I did pride damage

[frail fossil]

u dont bring a boomie for pride my dude

[final star]

Rogue I'm doing 7k dps on pride

[frail fossil]

it's like the worst spec for it

[final star]

Literally twice a boomkin

[brazen eagle]

Okay stfu lmao I get that god damn

[final star]

[shrewd night]

Just bring boomie for pride

[frail fossil]

[brazen eagle]

But y’all were saying something about pride dmg. And I said just bring a boomie or mage have them burst it

[final star]

And we're telling you

That boomy does not burst pride

Cos that's dumb as fuck

[brazen eagle]

Ffs. Outlaw or assa can more than carry the dmg a bit in aoe situation after that

It is dumb as fuck

[frail fossil]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[strange python]

Why is everyone arguing about pride dmg

[brazen eagle]

But I was just saying

[hollow escarp]

[final star]

That's the hottest take

[brazen eagle]

I have no fucking clue

[final star]

I've ever seen

Holy shit

[brazen eagle]

These guys jumped my ass

Because I brought up boomie

[hollow escarp]

for a second I thought I was lost in #outlaw again

[shrewd night]

I mean. If you say dumb shit you will get to know that you did.

[brazen eagle]

Ey man listen

[stoic needle]

Why would you want the boomkin to burst pride so the rogue can then 'carry aoe'

When you could do the opposite

[brazen eagle]

I could care less what y’all do in y’all’s 15-20 keys it doesn’t matter wtf you do lol

Omfg

[stoic needle]

And have the boomkin doing 20k+?

[brazen eagle]

That wasn’t even the point of the argument lmao

[final star]

You literally said have a fmage or boomy burst pride

[frail fossil]

[brazen eagle]

Y’all told some dude earlier that’s new to rogue to craft a certain legendary talking to him about pride dmg, I said why the fuck does pride dmg matters just bring a boomie/mage as a meme then it becamee serious lmao

[final star]

Don't worry guys

I was being dumb on purpose

[brazen eagle]

Im far from being dumb lmao

[stoic needle]

Maybe you should go back and read it again because that's not what happened

[frail fossil]

we didn't talk to him abt pride dmg do u have any reading comprehension skills

[hollow escarp]

just a meme bro

[final star]

This is the rogue equivalent of ITS JUST A PRANK BRO

[frail fossil]

i was adressing the statement of rogue is here for cc and pride dmg

[brazen eagle]

You boys are toxic lmao

[frail fossil]

which is not true

[hollow escarp]

wrong

nobody used F words against you

but you did

[final star]

You ever heard the phrase

Chat shit get banged

[brazen eagle]

I did not type out an f word

[final star]

[stoic needle]

'everyone who disagrees with me is toxic'

[frail fossil]

cant believe people told me i am wrong

[strange python]

Chat shit get banged

Sounds intelligent

[shrewd night]

Memeing outside of off topic. Nice. Maybe don't do that.

[final star]

[brazen eagle]

Lmao

[final star]

I'm out

[amber mountain]

I handle a few emails and #assassination goes off the rails. Must be Friday

[echo estuary]

It started off as a question on getting ready for raiding and M+ ASAP

Which turned into leggo question

Which turned into this

[grand ridge]

The dps who uses cd for pride really just varies unless you are in some mdi team. My group doesn't bother unless we are doing like 18s and it's not like we designate a person for it

[thorny pond]

I feel like a lot of DPS try to hold CDs on pride so they can pop off on the next pack

If I dump my vendetta oh well

[grand ridge]

Yeah I try to do that too unless it looks like we are going to struggle

Like if other trash mobs are still alive

[stoic needle]

Since vendetta has no aoe impact it's usually best for the rogue to vendetta pride than for a mage to combust it or etc

[thorny pond]

Fair. It's also kinda higher value sometimes to carry the other DPS thru the pride so they can spirit, convoke, combust etc on a big pack

[grand ridge]

Usually when I do that is when we are priding into a boss

[stoic needle]

Exactly

[ionic kelp]

ya your overall dmg as a rogue doesnt matter as much compared to other classes in m+ since you're doing stuff that benefits everyone else

a true team player

[stoic needle]

Well if you vendetta a pride before a boss you get vendetta back up during the execute unless you completely obliterate the boss

Yeah that's not true man

Your overall damage does matter

[grand ridge]

Assassination can pump aoe dps too

[stoic needle]

Without vendetta

That's why it's good to just use it whenever it's appropriate

[kind talon]

ye i mean

its rly good to just hold vendetta

for ST burst packs and pride

like, using it on the squad captains in spires is rly good

the captain in theater of pain

[frail fossil]

i mean boomies have insane utility and fire too, they just do more dmg

[kind talon]

prideful is always good prio

[stoic needle]

I mean you don't really need to hold it, you can just use it on cd and you have it up for every pride and every boss and usually every other pack

[grand ridge]

Those stone golems in Halls are great for assassination

[frail fossil]

rogue doesn't loose dmg by doing utility

it just does less dmg

than fire mage

or boomie

but like half of the reason why boomie is even brought is cuz they have trees

[kind talon]

u lose dmg if u AR pride as outlaw

[grand ridge]

Only if the tank is making huge pulls similar to mdi

[frail fossil]

NO

U DONT

[kind talon]

doesnt rly matter to assa

[frail fossil]

because u never hold AR

[kind talon]

sigh

[ionic kelp]

you hold AR in keys if pride is coming up

what

[frail fossil]

u loose dmg as outlaw if u hold AR

[kind talon]

and u hold it for pride

[grand ridge]

And the next two pulls after they do poop dmg. Assassination is consistent

[kind talon]

at the end of packs

[ionic kelp]

^

[frail fossil]

if u pop ar on the pack pride is coming up there is high chances u get it back during pride anyway, like yes if pride is coming in 15sec u hold it

but i aint gonna hold AR cur pride is coming in 1min

[kind talon]

ye

exactly

if u hold ar for a minute

then it would already be off cd

[frail fossil]

when i pushed high keys at the beginning of the tier i barely had to ever hold AR and i still had it for every pride almost

[kind talon]

ye i mean

i dont hold ar

but i pop it on pride

every time

[frail fossil]

yeah ofc

[kind talon]

even if pride is 10%

or like

15%

because it saves everyone DR cds etc

[frail fossil]

but even if u dont have AR for when pride comes up

u'll have it back in the middle of the pride

and still benefit from the duration of AR

[kind talon]

um

kinda

[frail fossil]

oh fuck we're in assassination

[kind talon]

ye

[frail fossil]

sorry

[kind talon]

[grand ridge]

Get outta here ya filthy pirates

[kind talon]

anyways

vendetta pride is pretty good

[grand ridge]

Ye

[kind talon]

does good dam

kills it faster pretty cool

[balmy condor]

[kind talon]

[echo estuary]

Hrmmm would it be overkill to just sit down with a cup of coffee and mark every add in MDT that id wanna vendetta for M+? Lol

Right now I've just gone in to mess around with guildies while gearing up and just try to pop CD's whenever not leaving them up too long and winging it.

Feelcrafty CD usage lol

[kind talon]

probably not

i enjoy nerding out over that shit lmfao

[echo estuary]

Not like there's much to do in wow once you hit 200+ aside from pugging into H CN and grinding Valor

[stoic needle]

It's not a bad idea at all

[echo estuary]

Haven't dabbled into rogue pvp aside from killing some random alliance DK trying to gang my transmog vendor

[stoic needle]

There's only 8 dungeons

[kind talon]

it sounds like a lot of fun

and u could share it here

🙂

[echo estuary]

And get critiqued by my peers!?

[kind talon]

yep

[echo estuary]

Sure!

[frigid kestrel]

Sounds like more fun then clicking the search button and hoping that a 19 dos, top, or hoa pop up

sorry

[kind talon]

nah we would just glance at it and then move on with our day

xd

[frigid kestrel]

clicking for hours

[kind talon]

sounds like u need a m+ group nullfox

[frigid kestrel]

i do

they just

[echo estuary]

A lot of m+ grps on my server have died in the past month lol

[frigid kestrel]

umm i dont want to shit talk.... arent as good as i am i guess

[echo estuary]

My guild shifted from M+ to torghast for some reason

[frigid kestrel]

They are hard stuck on 17/18

[echo estuary]

After I started raid logging on dk

[kind talon]

wtf????

??????????????????????????

[echo estuary]

Riiight?

[kind talon]

what does this mean

[frigid kestrel]

im trying to get my last three 19's so i can get into 20 groups

[echo estuary]

I'm like wtf happened to you guys?

[kind talon]

i might have some friends to run up there w u

[echo estuary]

EU or NA? Lol

[frigid kestrel]

Ally?

[kind talon]

ah

[echo estuary]

Big questions

[kind talon]

L

NA horde

gg

[frigid kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/dora-dora-the-explorer-boots-oh-man-oh-mannnn-gif-5485872

[echo estuary]

Undead Rogue here with the most Edgy name ever lol

[kind talon]

swiper

[stoic needle]

[echo estuary]

I feel like they have slowly gone more mad with the longer the patch is out

[balmy condor]

This is quite off topic

[frigid kestrel]

time to get it together guys the boss is here

[kind talon]

yo do u enjoy vendetta-ing pride?

[echo estuary]

I like to vendetta MCed friends and murdering them

Rogue things ya know

[kind talon]

xymox proggers

do i use blindside for xymox

[echo estuary]

Back on ilgy in Nya our frost mage would 1 shot our MC's and kill em hahaha

[balmy condor]

Probably should

[kind talon]

what if i force my guildies to get trapped so i can get CT stonks

and run ep vigor

[balmy condor]

That would be quite impressive

[echo estuary]

Btw for inspire would you vendetta all inspired mobs?

[balmy condor]

Normally you CC them and just pull everything else

[kind talon]

depends on the pull but ye

[balmy condor]

But if you must pull with the inspire, you usually need to nuke it

[echo estuary]

Any special WA's you guys think I should use on my rogue outside normal abilities and cd's?

[balmy condor]

I think a countdown for shroud is pretty useful for keys

[echo estuary]

True lol I jebaited my guildies because should had 10 secs left on CD and I told them to go xD

[rancid pier]

Is it possible to make a macro that will cast ambush when blindside is active, and mutilate when its not?

[crimson depot]

So I want to start playing my Rogue again and I'm having issues picking a covenant as I want to play Sin in Raid and Outlaw in M+ but from the info I've seen they both pick differently do rogue have a better all rounded covenant so I can play both without being at any form of major disadvantage?

[sonic schooner]

Necro evzryday then, venthyr is strong in ST (and raid arnt ST) when Necro is overall great (even in pvp if u want to take a look at it). Everything is explained in the pinned messages

@crimson depot

[crimson depot]

ty, that's a big help!

[balmy condor]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[rancid pier]

Thanks

[nimble tartan]

i didnt have enough keybinds to use on my assassination rogue since I have tricks of the trade unique keybinds for all 19 members of my raid. I found space for ambush keybind by adding foot pedals to my gaming rig! just somethin to think about

[sonic schooner]

19 ToT macro

[last imp]

so i'm trying to gear my rogue to 170 so i can do lfr but right now the biggest thing holding me back is my trinket and daggers, any suggestions for easy and decent ones to get? (i already have darkmoon deck)

i'm 167 equipped rn

[stoic needle]

Honor PvP trinkets

Or world quest ones

[shrewd night]

You can buy the 170 int dagger

And hold it in bags

[stoic needle]

There should be greens and blues on the ah too

[timber basalt]

190 ilvl boe daggers aren't unique equipped afaik

[fleet whale]

Rings and trinkets are generally the only unique equipped things left these days

very few modern weapons are unique equipped, if any

[sick cairn]

do we use sudden fractures?

for heirmir?

or stick to the shiv conduit?

[stoic needle]

Sudden fractures sims better than all sin conduits in all situations for me

[balmy condor]

yep same

[stoic needle]

Not by much, but it's better

Could probably run wps on Sludgefist but that's about it

[sick cairn]

theres a gemstone weak aura right?

[stoic needle]

Yeah just search marrowed gemstone on wago.io

[balmy condor]

there's weakauras for everything

[kind talon]

yeah gemstone weakaura is pretty good

i use it

[odd meteor]

Just a quick question am I suppose to have the envenom buff rolling going into a shiv window?

[stoic needle]

not neccesarily

just ignore the envenom buff tbh

if it's up, good, if not, don't worry about it

don't try to play around it

[odd meteor]

okay thanks

[royal lantern]

have some energy and maybe some cp when you use shiv

and its fine

wait

@balmy condor you are necrolord and not venthyr?

[stoic needle]

[strange python]

[royal lantern]

i trusted you whispr

[balmy condor]

correct

[thorny pond]

Necro is so hot right now

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-cry-reading-pepe-the-frog-sad-gif-17607942

[balmy condor]

necro for m+

[strange python]

i hope the venthyr lego works as intended atm so i dont have to be venthyr for 9.1

[royal lantern]

isnt doomblade better anyway?

[strange python]

atm yeah i think

but like if the vers continued for when u get the buff too

idk if thats the case anymore

[balmy condor]

doomblade is for sure better

even with 24 sec vers

[strange python]

ah

ok

[stoic needle]

it still wouldn't be better than doomblade with the 24s vers

[strange python]

well no worries then

bonesmith seems like a better soulbind for 9.1 too

[thorny pond]

You mean we aren't getting Kevin? 😦

[royal lantern]

doomblade vs venthyr legendary is the age old "constant dmg increase vs big increase during a window"

[stoic needle]

the heirmir mastery buff is

[strange python]

what if the real meme is subtlety venthyr

[stoic needle]

it's looking to not be a meme

[balmy condor]

sub venth is quite strong

[thorny pond]

Mastery IQD

[stoic needle]

and divine bell

[thorny pond]

omg

[dark basalt]

on the other hand, the necro leggo seems juicy for assa

[thorny pond]

boosted ilvl bell and IQD

2 on use XD

[strange python]

seems juicy for everything

[stoic needle]

i'm going to try iqd and bell in some keys this week

[dark basalt]

true

[stoic needle]

to see how it works

[strange python]

still curious how they will nerf the necro lego

[stoic needle]

i have to se if bell puts iqd on a 20s or 9s cd

[strange python]

if it will be unusable after its treatment

[royal lantern]

i mean, talking about legendarys and soulbind balance RIGHT NOW is a bit

[stoic needle]

yes yes we know that everything can change

i'm still going to talk about it

[thorny pond]

The dream would be MP NS build again but I just a dreamer

[stoic needle]

honestly crit iqd to set up bleeds and then bell to make them pump seems interesting

[thorny pond]

Yea M+ is the wild west. I hope Crit/Mastery really gets some fun builds in 9.1

Raiding I've given up ever not stacking haste

[warped marlin]

hey guys, saw a video an assa player recommended mastery as mainstat in M+. what u think about that?

[thorny pond]

Crit and Mastery are solid for M+

[stoic needle]

you should not watch that player's videos

[gusty mirage]

I’d argue that crit would be a bit more important than mastery as it’d help get your rotation rolling a little better. But crit and mastery are the go-to m+ stats

[stoic needle]

crit should be your main stat over mastery

mastery and haste should be roughly equal, maybe slightly more mastery

also don't FOK on 3 targets

and don't use theotar double potency

[gusty mirage]

Imagine not being stinky

[stoic needle]

[thorny pond]

Bonesmith Gang!

Vampire Rogue is overdone anyways. We're already edgy enough

Lord knows half you are moody like vampries

[gusty mirage]

I do miss being venthyr

[stoic needle]

i miss the mog

[warped marlin]

what would u recommend then?

[stoic needle]

i don't miss janky ass theotar and nadjia soulbinds thouigh

[thorny pond]

#subtlety <- that way

[stoic needle]

lashing scars wasteland propriety

[gusty mirage]

Wasteland for the vers if you play Theo

Plus that shield randomly breaks stealth

Because “reasons”

[warped marlin]

i will try just thought versa is not necassary for assa

[gusty mirage]

Ty lord ion for not testing rogues

[stoic needle]

versa is nice because it helps you not die

[gusty mirage]

Vers is still good, flat damage increase and damage reduction

[thorny pond]

Think it's my top stat rn iirc

[stoic needle]

if you're doing high keys its probably crit > mastery > haste=vers

[kind talon]

fake

oxi is fake

[balmy condor]

haste bad mastery good haste useless does nothing

[thorny pond]

Who said "Vers is useless if you're dead"?

[strange python]

a lot of stats are pretty bad when youre dead

[thorny pond]

News to me

[royal lantern]

we are in legion now?

[balmy condor]

apparently so

[thorny pond]

Give me agonizing poison back, take your alacrity

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

that's a magma hot take

[spice spire]

Ur magma hot

Wait

[gusty mirage]

Have you ever woken up and just been like “yeah I shoulda went back to sleep”?

[gusty mirage]

No u

[royal lantern]

have you ever woken up and NOT thought that?

[gusty mirage]

God you couldn’t be more right

[spice spire]

no u oxi

but also damn assassination doesn't miss, unless it's talking about assassination

[thorny pond]

What do you mean?

[stoic needle]

it's simple maths

all stats = good

but

mastery = more good

[thorny pond]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-yourself-tools-hammer-screw-driver-dummy-gif-16097447

Is that you running your sims?

[glass root]

anyone can give me a quick rotation for master assassin talent ? on sire right now

[balmy condor]

he's a mastery simp, it's pretty cringe

[thorny pond]

That's my friend!

[balmy condor]

mixture of mut and envenom

[glass root]

ok opener?

[wispy hazel]

Hey, new to assassination. What’s a good first legendary to craft. I raid and M+

[glass root]

open with garrote or mut?

[balmy condor]

no reason to open with garrote

you aren't playing sub

[thorny pond]

MA window needs mut

[glass root]

ok open with mut then

[balmy condor]

yes

[glass root]

2mute slice dice garrote Mut mute rapture?

[balmy condor]

1 mut, just like normal

mut snd mut

[thorny pond]

don't have to apply a high CP SnD either

[whole mason]

there was an argument about opening with ambush

Let me see if i can fetch the details.

[balmy condor]

did anyone during that

use the command

[stoic needle]

imagine not opening with