assassination

[compact pumice]

Outlaw is more forgiving than sin I think

[slow marsh]

Yeah outlaw is more forgiving

for sure

You can just look at min parses for both and see that

[stoic needle]

Because letting dots drop off is really bad

[tribal marlin]

yeah but ykr, it has this consistency in DPS. Sin rogue should always bring consistent damage even through difficult encounter with a lot of mechanics involved. In that type of encounter sin rogues shines because they will very quickly "soak" the encounter dps wise and provide optimal dps in a just couple a pulls

that's really not the case for every classes

[slow marsh]

Yeah that's what my RL said he likes about my numbers is that it's a very consistent 5-6k which is nice

[undone eagle]

I wanna use shiv on cd 24/7 right

@slow marsh 5-6k in m+ overall dps?

[slow marsh]

no

[stoic needle]

It is good to be able to count on some people to always do good damage

[slow marsh]

I mean yeah

in m+ actually i do

[undone eagle]

I thought 5k was bad

Im always 5-5.5k overall

Thats why i get 99 logs?

[stoic needle]

Are you talking about raid or m+

[undone eagle]

M+

[slow marsh]

lol

[stoic needle]

M+ logs don't mean anything

[undone eagle]

Thought so 🤣

[slow marsh]

im in game

[stoic needle]

But a wcl of a key is usually ~1k less than the actual dps you did

[slow marsh]

cant explain

[stoic needle]

I'd say 6k overall is respectable as a sin rogue

But some people here pump 7-8k+ on the regular

[tribal marlin]

exactly, some spec needs to practice a bit the encounter before providing optimal dps and it's normal stuff, and having some other spec that can quickly provide consistent dps allow the raid to progress faster in the encounter and allow these other spec to "practice" their encounter faster etc...

[undone eagle]

Holy moly

7-8 overall?!

Poggees

[stoic needle]

I mean when WW monks do 10k overall it's not that impressive lol

[undone eagle]

damn i gotta be much better at rotations

I always mess my shiv, it comes up when 2-3 targets run out of bleeds

So i use shiv and just rebleed 😦

[stoic needle]

It's not just you, your tank matters too

That's what you're supposed to do

[undone eagle]

Wdym?

[stoic needle]

You don't envenom much at all in aoe

Your tank's route through the key determines your damage almost as much as your own button presses do

[undone eagle]

The most of times i envenom is because maintaining SnD

[stoic needle]

Yeah don't do that

[undone eagle]

Oh dang

[stoic needle]

You don't snd until there are 4 or less targets

I mean you can use one to extend it but it's really low priority

Bleeds are always more important

[undone eagle]

So i have opened wrong all the tile? I do 4x garrotes then SnD lol

Time*

[stoic needle]

Should be garotte x3 > fok > ct

Fok > rupture until you have most things ruptured

Use 2-3 cp Ruptures to start and then refresh in pandemic

[undone eagle]

Oh thanks mate

Why i use muti is cuz i get panic when i get 1 cp from FoK at 4 targets

🤣

Its all about crit i guess

[stoic needle]

Crit is important yeah

[undone eagle]

But how come FoK gives only 1 cp when there are 3-4 targets?

[stoic needle]

Fok gives 1 cp and then 1 more for every other crit

[undone eagle]

Its only crit who raise the cp?

Aha ok got it

[stoic needle]

It's not like shuriken storm

[undone eagle]

Thank lord i got like 26% crit

But i appreciate the tips mate

So i usually just maintain

[stoic needle]

Yeah the majority of your dmg is from your dots and poisons

[undone eagle]

Envenom and SnD appears on prio/1-3 targets right

[stoic needle]

Yeah np

Exactly

[undone eagle]

Got it thnx

[stoic needle]

If you have leftover CP at the end of a pack you can use that on snd so you have it up for the whole pack

[undone eagle]

Oley

Okey*

But Oshosi

Do you reccomend vigor or deeper

For m+

[stoic needle]

vigor all the way

[undone eagle]

Ok nice

[stoic needle]

You want the extra energy so you don't overcap as much, and the energy regen to help you get everything up in the opener without starving

[grand ridge]

Activates your tier 1 talent for 10% more dmg on your garrotes too

[stoic needle]

There's also a fun build with MFD, Nightstalker and the MA legendary

That one is so dope

You mfd+CT from stealth

And that CT snapshots the +50% damage from NS

And your poisons do too

[undone eagle]

So what ive learned right now is that I mostly care about putting shiv on cd all the time, 3x garrote + fok > CT then low CP rupture on all targets and spin around, SnD if cp is leftover from the last pack

[stoic needle]

For a few seconds until they're refreshed wr least

That's sin in m+ in a nutshell yep

[undone eagle]

Hsha

Haha

But one thing im curious about

When tank pulls packs on plaguefall for example, all the slimes at first boss u know

I just open in stealth with fok ct spam

Thats right?

[stoic needle]

Only if you have the MA legendary

[undone eagle]

Yep

[prisma perch]

Does actually eternal stats sim always better than skirmish?

[stoic needle]

With subterfuge you should still triple garotte, and you'll have to use ct a few times to get all the slimes CT'd

[gusty mirage]

skirmish sims better for me

and it makes me mad because its such a minimal amount of damage

[stoic needle]

Skirmish for ST, eternal stats sims better for dungeon slice for me

[undone eagle]

Also furter way, where tank has like 6-7 targets,

I open in stealth and 3x garrote + FoK > CT

Vanish > 3x garrote other targets who isnt hit + FoK + CT again?

Or do i use rupture instead of CT when i come out of vanish

[stoic needle]

I find you kinda get energy starved trying to do 3 more garottes after vanish like that

Err like

Immediately vanishing into more garottes

So if you do that I'd pool some energy first

But otherwise it's fine

[gusty mirage]

I'll pool your energy osh

[undone eagle]

Alright

[gusty mirage]

can you DM me a link to your wago sir? 🙂

or post it here

idc

[stoic needle]

Oh shit yeah I forgot to send that to you cuz of that idiot's discord crashing gif

One sec

[gusty mirage]

ty kind sir

[undone eagle]

Hm oshi, when my garrotes bleed out, i just rebleed 1 by 1 when garrote is up again, meanwhile spamming FOK to maintain CT + Rupture

Right?

Now i talk about 4-5 targets

[stoic needle]

exactly, just keep garotte on cd basically

[undone eagle]

Okey thanks now its gonna feel much better I hope

More things under control

[stoic needle]

@gusty mirage https://wago.io/1XjGRs4ud

[gusty mirage]

you da best

[frigid kestrel]

Speaking of WA’s I got that one working @stoic needle. Ending up doing a Use Slot 6 vs the actual Cardboard Assassin Spell ID’s.

[versed mica]

What's the most up to date guide? wowhead, ravenholdt, or icy veins?

[limber lion]

They're all up to date.

[idle shard]

is repeating the storyline the best way to level alts?

[brave vector]

Storyline up to right before you hit 60 then turn in threads of fate is what I’ve found works best

[idle shard]

leveling another rogue. Are dungeons while questing recommended?

[brave vector]

The bonus objectives for xp take forever to do, and the dungeons give good XP but unless you’re doing healer or tank queues then they take a bit of time

It’s also a bit mind numbing cause you only have access to 4 of the 8 dungeons until 60

[oak cypress]

so i was looking at the rotation guide on ravenholdt, it says for master assassin rotation at start it says mutilate, does that mean i ont use ambush from stealth at start at all?

[balmy condor]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[brave vector]

I would just follow all the main story quests non stop, do a side quest or 2 when you hit a wall in the story missions, and when you’re like 25% from 60 turn on threads of fate and do a dungeon

[idle shard]

Will do then, thanks man

[gusty mirage]

yes, you only ambush w/ blindside procs

[oak cypress]

ah ok, thats gonna take soem readjusting ive just been using ambush from stealth at start.... rip

[thorny rose]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[versed mica]

Question: wowhead guide says to use flagellation before vendetta. This confuses me, wouldn't vendetta increase flag lash damage?

[oak cypress]

ok i mean i knew there was a reason, just im in a bad habit now ive got to break

[limber lion]

Moving Vendetta around in your opener doesn't really make much of a difference.

You can press it earlier if you'd like, but it doesn't really matter.

[versed mica]

Oh also:

"Use Flagellation (Venthyr) right before Vendetta when you are about to follow up with a finisher. If delays from synching with Vendetta will cost you a use, it is better to use it on cooldown though."

Does this mean I want to delay using flag to sync with vendetta, with the exception of it being like

[icy crater]

!bis

[versed mica]

the end of a boss fight so you won't lose a flag

The wording really has me confused

[limber lion]

No, it's the other way around

Simply put:

You press Flag on CD

But you can sync it if you won't miss a cast.

Generally you just press it on CD whenever, but you can try to sync the very last Flag with the last Vendetta.

[versed mica]

Then why don't they just say "press on cd"

[limber lion]

Weird choice of words, that's all.

[versed mica]

Okay, thanks lol

[royal lantern]

cus when they say "just use on cd" the "but why not sync???? pls explain" question appears 40x a day^^

[versed mica]

lol tru

Another question: Why are many sin rogues using DS instead of vigor in Nathria fights?

Is it just padding due to shorter fights?

[oak cypress]

oh wait when u crit with mutilate does it count it as 2 crits for seal fate passive?

[balmy condor]

each hand can crit individually

[limber lion]

Deeper Strata sims better at higher haste levels.

[versed mica]

oh really? dayam

[limber lion]

Usually players using Venthyr default to Deeper Stratagem because of the haste gains from their covenant ability and soulbinds.

You just need to sim yourself to see which performs better for you.

[oak cypress]

ah ok ty

[crimson grove]

im 222 ilvl, 750 crit, 740 haste, any ideas what im doing wrong when my envenoms is about 18% or my dps and melee is only 14% but simming result in melee 18% and envenom 17%

[hollow escarp]

sims have windfury

that's one thing for sure

[slender trail]

for a 4 pillar heroic sludge kill, if your guild lusts on pillar 3, would it still be better to use cooldowns on opener/p2/p4, or just go p1/p3 and miss a set? i feel like the gains from pairing with lust will be less than an entire additional usage of them...

[crimson grove]

yea that true, thanks my wise friend

[thorny pond]

Logs?

[balmy condor]

you would do pull/2/4 and then tell your guild to get their shit together

[thorny pond]

You can only make up for so much dps

[balmy condor]

I mean, if you're doing 4 pillars and lusting on the 3rd

there's something wrong

[hollow escarp]

it's either lust on first pillar or on 4th to make it easy on enrage

[balmy condor]

I have never understood why people make a conscious decision to place lust in bad places

[hollow escarp]

for heroic that is

[balmy condor]

first pillar is troll too

like

actually makes 0 sense

[hollow escarp]

everybody does that now to dump cooldowns

[balmy condor]

you always should lust the last pillar

[hollow escarp]

at least in pugs

[balmy condor]

always

there's no reason not to lust last pillar

3 min cds will be 1/4 in 4 pillar, and pull/3 in 3 pillar

2 min cds will be pull/2/4 in 4 pillar, and 1/3 in 3 pillar

[crimson grove]

here are logs for sludge, SLG and sire if you want to have a look ^^
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nrNkJBz4QpXaTHMZ/

[balmy condor]

no matter what you do

you're lusting without the full raid cds

if you don't lust last pillar

[hollow escarp]

yeah but

what if you kill before 4th pillar?

[balmy condor]

then you're doing a 3 pillar strat

and you lust pillar 3

[magic gale]

how do you open with venthyr? stealth into muti dice apply bleeds cov ab shiv vanish envenom?

[balmy condor]

yep

[pastel shale]

then you save lust for SLG :^)

[stoic needle]

vend>flag>rup

[balmy condor]

I have yet to see a compelling argument

for any lust that isn't last pillar

[limber lion]

A lot of pugs in HC lust the first pillar, which is dummy dumb.

[magic gale]

funny that this discussion is going rn, just started progress on mythic sludge and we settled on using lust on last pillar since most have 2min cds

[hollow escarp]

yes, so it's bad to use CDs on pull if they lust on first pillar

[limber lion]

Okay pop quiz

What if you're doing an absolute giga blaster chad run and you're going to Sludge between 2nd and 3rd pillar

Which pillar do you lust and how do you allign cooldowns?

There is only one answer here.

[balmy condor]

pull/2 lust on 2

[magic gale]

as rogue if you use lust on last pillar you use cds on pull

[limber lion]

Yes, but what about 3 min cooldowns

[balmy condor]

3 min cds use on pillar 2

[limber lion]

Exactly

Fuck the pugs who think lusting first pillar is good

[hollow escarp]

so pillar 2 is the blaster run?

[limber lion]

Hope ya'll have a nice day

[hollow escarp]

all my last kills on Sire I had people asking to stop dps

[limber lion]

For the giga chad groups yes.

[magic gale]

first phase?

[hollow escarp]

yes Zii

[balmy condor]

it tilts me really hard to see something which is super easy to optimize, like when to lust

[limber lion]

2 min users get 2 cooldowns, 3 mins still get only one regardless of whether we lust pillar 1 or 2

[balmy condor]

and just trolling it

[light plume]

mine too do, dont mean you do LOL

[magic gale]

well if you dont skip cleansing pains it makes sense :p

[hollow escarp]

yeah, I'm also soaking each cleanse

[limber lion]

Same it's so

Like it's not rocket science

[light plume]

yeah when I do sire runs, I do all soaks and if they call for stop but unless we're at like 70.8 percent I dont

[magic gale]

i've tried to find online, but havent really been able to find out about haste, do we have like minium amount of haste we need to really up our dps?i recently changed to assa from outlaw so my gear is really heavy on versa

[limber lion]

Read the FAQ section in the pins

Your answer is the one that's bolded

[magic gale]

how the fuck did i miss that lmao

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

So wait

I only have 17% haste

[magic gale]

i mean based on that its just stats weights pretty much

[gusty mirage]

Should I just delete my rogue?

[hollow escarp]

keep it to open lockboxes

[gusty mirage]

You right

Huge brain @hollow escarp

[balmy condor]

dunno

I even bolded to try and reduce people missing it

but people still miss it

[light plume]

if I have like 2 seconds left on shiv buff, but low CP, is it a good idea to low CP envemon or just let it go?

[magic gale]

yeah

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

no

[magic gale]

i've read this channel and your posts multiple times

and i've googled it aswell

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

unlucky

[magic gale]

but the answer was there right in my face

[hollow escarp]

this is the best source for rogue info

[balmy condor]

[magic gale]

funny thing is i hovered of your name and saw the flashing pin aswell lmao

[balmy condor]

[eternal lance]

guys can i max my Crit not haste

i think crit is better : D

crit mastery

with 18 % haste

[icy crater]

you can do whatever you want

[eternal lance]

30 % crit 28 % mastery

i mean witch btter

[icy crater]

wanna see my mastery?

[eternal lance]

Y

[eternal lance]

0 ?

[plain thistle]

why are you chasing a specific number for stats? O.o

[eternal lance]

😐

[eternal lance]

what u mean

[balmy condor]

^

[plain thistle]

yeah, especially when anything can change their value

st? mastery popo but start adding more targets and mastery is good

[balmy condor]

there's not enough gear out there at high enough ilvl to make specific gear sets for different situations

and the difference between them is so irrelevant it's not even funny

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/joaquin-phoenix-commodus-gladiator-thumbs-down-gif-12708900

[crimson grove]

is it worth using 210 zoldyck insignia over 235 doomblades in m+ or should i stick with boomblades for extra boss dmg and overall more stats

[stoic needle]

yes, legendary ilvl isnt very important

doomblade is only good in a few dungeons

@balmy condor whatever happened to that uncapped aoe sheet

[balmy condor]

4 dimensional spreadsheets take time friend

[crimson grove]

okey thanks, time to get crafting then 😄

[grave trail]

rogue friends, does evasion work for impale? or any mechanic at all for sire, ty in advance

[stoic needle]

4 dimensional?

[balmy condor]

does not

[balmy condor]

indeed

we're plotting graphs

[grave trail]

@balmy condor on no mechanic at all? what about hunters

[stoic needle]

i'm stiff

[balmy condor]

let me double check

[grave trail]

Ty whispr

[balmy condor]

looks like nothing in raid can be evasioned

except for maybe slg stuff because wicked blade is jank, or the ravenous feast if you pre-cast it and get lucky

[stoic needle]

you can also vanish ravenous feast

if you get lucky

[grave trail]

I see, not that i dont trust you but is there a list of that or you just have a personal list made by yourself tested

[balmy condor]

there is a list

which is slowly existing

missing some denathrius stuff but then should be good to go

[grave trail]

ok but impale is a no for sure right? so i can inform my RL

[balmy condor]

correct

[grave trail]

ty whispyr

[stoic needle]

gonna try out the NS MA build on tyrr and see how it does

i dont like having to interrupt my subterfuge opener to hit explosives

[steel geyser]

Do you guys know if we can cloak the spirits MC on Xymox ? Never had the opportunity to try it out

[balmy condor]

you can

[steel geyser]

ty

[heavy trail]

Going to start some practice with MA leggo in mythics. I got the idea on using vanish to empower ST envenoms for AOE/packs I guess i want to buff some FOK and CT ?

[balmy condor]

depends on your talents

if you're playing NS, you would want to CT/Rup from stealth, and fok/mut to generate depending on target counts

with subt, you would want to get the empowered garrotes and mut/fok to generate if you have time left

the legendary itself doesn't actually change your rotation at all

[heavy trail]

Ok thanks W.

With sub rogue, it's quite apparent how you can land some massive bombs with find weakness and ST just need to work on my assassin a bit more 🙂 Appreciate the help

[balmy condor]

np

[stoic needle]

Highly recommend the ma/NS build

Snapshotted CT hits like a freight train

[hollow escarp]

returned from a tyranical key?

[stoic needle]

Not yet I'm gonna eat first lol

[heavy trail]

@stoic needle so to have those you would give up the extra garrotes right ?

[stoic needle]

Yeah

You mfd+CT from stealth

Then fok>rup > fok > rup with the rest of the ma window

[heavy trail]

Ok haha will have to try that one out as I share my CT kb with MFD since i havent been using CT except in dungeons without MFD

[balmy condor]

wat

[gloomy knoll]

ct is our bis aoe talent

[wary ice]

Hes playing on controller cut him some slack :(

[gloomy knoll]

you should have a keybind for it

lol

heck it's not even that far behind on st

[heavy trail]

You misunderstood lol

I have a bind for it just haven't used a MFD build yet

just use MFD in pvp so will have to separate them i suppose

[stoic needle]

CT should be baseline

[alpine garden]

Confirmed real news

[dusky vault]

Put CT on your ambush bind since you won't use ambush in m+

[stoic needle]

I have rupture on V and CT on shift+v

[heavy trail]

bad to make say a /cast sequence=reset 2 marked for death, crimson tempest?

[stoic needle]

Yes

Because when you need to refresh ct it won't work if mfd isn't recharged(and it won't be)

[wary ice]

Bro there are 104 keys on a keyboard tou cannot convince me none are reachable

[gloomy knoll]

don't think sin players can handle that

tbh

mf's was crying nonstop in nyalotha

[stoic needle]

Wut

[gloomy knoll]

too hard too many bleed

[heavy trail]

Bro, I am simply asking for some thoughts and efficiency so a simple "no that wouldn't be good" would have been fine 🙂

[gloomy knoll]

ask whispyr

it was funny tho

people complaining bleed build was finally a thing xd

[shy dust]

tbf

anything past 6 is unreachable

[gloomy knoll]

^

when i first started playing the game i had my kick on 7 or 9 i think

and i would legit take my hand off my mouse

to press it with y right hand

[stoic needle]

[timber basalt]

sin actually has so few buttons

[gloomy knoll]

yea it's pretty low

not as low as dh tho

havoc only takes up like half an action bar

[hollow escarp]

my bars are so empty on some classes

and on enhancement I don't have enough room

[gloomy knoll]

meanwhile my rogue uses the side bars

and all 4 at the bottom

and a 20 macro mouse

[stoic needle]

It's cuz of all of our defensives

[wary ice]

My guy has arena macros for distract

[gloomy knoll]

we have the same amount of defensives

as most classes

we just have lots of cc and utility

[stoic needle]

Do other classes really have 4 defensives?

[gloomy knoll]

feint cloak evasion?

[wary ice]

Ngl I dont think I have cheap shot bound rn

[gloomy knoll]

what's the 4th

[stoic needle]

I haven't played anything but rogue

[wary ice]

Bial

[hollow escarp]

fleshcraft

[brittle pawn]

4 defensives? laughs in dk

[gloomy knoll]

vial not really a defensive since legion

[stoic needle]

Yeah vial

Hmm ok

[gloomy knoll]

it's a very small heal at the cost of your dps resource

[hollow escarp]

[gloomy knoll]

while a lot of specs just have actual heals

[stoic needle]

[brittle pawn]

AMS, AMZ, lichborne, death strike, IBF

[wary ice]

I love how many dk icons are just faces and menacing power poses

[gloomy knoll]

legion vial was fucking god tier tho

it was like a 20% dr or something

[stoic needle]

Fuckin hybrids

Yo they better buff crimson

[gloomy knoll]

and feint had no cd

[low girder]

that was only for sin though'

[stoic needle]

Revert the nerf

[low girder]

the vial DR

[stoic needle]

[gloomy knoll]

yea artifact trait

shit was mad op tho

[wary ice]

No cd no energy fient

What a time to be alive

[gloomy knoll]

no cd feint was so strong

[low girder]

feint was 20 energy iirc

[gloomy knoll]

especially in legion

when every other spec needed to stack like

mad shitty avoidance pieces to live

and rogue was just like

kekw feint

[low girder]

it worked on dumb shit too

[hollow escarp]

last boss DHT you could feint while other classes needed res

[low girder]

i guess it still does

[hollow escarp]

or externals

[low girder]

but like half of avatar's mechanics

feint worked on

[gloomy knoll]

yea

[low girder]

for some reason

[gloomy knoll]

was so busted lol

[hollow escarp]

Feint is still a very strong defensive

[low girder]

SLG is like that too though i guess, why it works on blades i have no idea

[hollow escarp]

you don't need it every 15 sec either

[gloomy knoll]

yea the

cd nerf was really only effective

at stopping the talent

[low girder]

the energy nerf hurt

[gloomy knoll]

like in pvp it was actually just fucking disgusting

[low girder]

20 to 35 was massive

[gloomy knoll]

to have a 0 cd feint

with a dr on everything

[hollow escarp]

Feint was my spam button while doing laps in Dalaran Sewers

[low girder]

at least we still have swirly ball

[gloomy knoll]

yea the energy nerf was no bueno

i use the condi to reduce it xd

[heavy trail]

with that valheera legendary was fun in world pvp 🙂

[hollow escarp]

should macro Detection with Feint

my Feint macro usually has infinite rune

but we have none of that yet

[low girder]

wait

oh nvm i'm running recup

i was like wtf is feint 35 with the conduit lmao

[hollow escarp]

haha

I'm using recup as well

[split veldt]

for mythic generals, do you spam CT, or just keep the dot up?

[hollow escarp]

instead of feint/vial

[low girder]

i run nimble if i have a 2nd endurance but nadjia only has 1

sadly

[hollow escarp]

^

same

[low girder]

think niya had 2

[hollow escarp]

CT is a DoT you wanna keep up, not really spam

what other covenants have reliable 2 endurance conduits??

[split veldt]

so FoK into envemons until gotta refresh CT?

[low girder]

only fok if there's skirms up

if it's just the goliath and 1 boss you still mut

[split veldt]

yeah 3+ targets?

[low girder]

4

[split veldt]

ah

[hollow escarp]

dood

[low girder]

but yeah you just treat CT like any other dot

[hollow escarp]

Bonesmith has 2 endurance

[low girder]

except in shiv windows

[split veldt]

damn ive been doing M+ wrong then, ive been spamming CT lmao

[low girder]

rip lol

[hollow escarp]

well, at least you have initial damage on CT

so not as bad as spamming rupture

on same target

[split veldt]

lmao would never do that, but yeah the initial damage is why i thought i should spam it whoops

[low girder]

and yeah i think it's heirmir and niya

that have 2 endurance that you can run

[split veldt]

this is probly why i can barely break 5k overall

[balmy condor]

probably a big reason

yeah

[split veldt]

[hollow escarp]

farm or prog?

[low girder]

jk pelagos can too

[hollow escarp]

yeah, but it's too bright out there

[low girder]

lol

[quartz spear]

I never see Ambush being used in sims and parses

Is it because of Mutilate legendary?

[strange python]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[quartz spear]

ty

[spare flame]

What slot does Zoldyck go in?

[dusky vault]

Legs usually

[spare flame]

fuck it im doing legs

[balmy condor]

leg

[spare flame]

cant stop me

[dusky vault]

Can't stop won't stop

[low girder]

get yourself some boe boots too and go to town

[stoic needle]

https://tenor.com/view/teamwork-back-flip-wearing-pants-gif-16289206

Me when I crafted my zokdycks

[eternal lance]

yo guys

zoldyck will working with ns and mod

?

or its not good

[stoic needle]

It's not as good because you don't have the cp generation from MA to get ruptures up after MFD CT from stealth

[eternal lance]

ow

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck is best with subterfuge imo

[eternal lance]

kk

ty

[quartz spear]

What's the optimal energy to pool before shiving?

[stoic needle]

You pool around envenom, not shiv. Don't envenom unless you have 90+ energy and you will always have enough energy for shiv

You slam them as fast as possible during shiv ofc

[strange python]

Question since I've just swapped to venthyr. How do I use flagellation in m+ on trash? Is it something I should be focusing on or just throw it out whenever?

[balmy condor]

just on cooldown

[strange python]

Figured as much, thanks.

Life without renown is awful.

[quartz spear]

Not sure I follow. I've been pooling for e.g. when I have 4cp to Shiv on the 5th and then slam

But sometimes I run out of energy

[balmy condor]

when you're not in shiv/vend/flag, you pool before you envenom

that automatically pools for shiv/vend by default

[spare flame]

Has anyone run Zoldyck on Mythic Stone Legion and enjoyed themselves?

[balmy condor]

people don't enjoy themselves on stone legion

[eternal lance]

zoldyck guys i must use vigor or deeper starttgem

?

[stoic needle]

Vigor is better for keys

[eternal lance]

ok

[jade coral]

or MFD

[hallow coyote]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[torn atlas]

Anyone who's played both Venth and Necro since patch, what's your verdict on playing them in M+ keys?

[balmy condor]

necro probably better

[torn atlas]

Do you miss the flag damage and buff much when it comes to prio targets and bosses?

Or am I over estimating how strong flag is for that.

[brittle pawn]

oh my

rl just posted this lmao

[stoic needle]

It's def strong but sin kinda pumps single target regardless

[hollow escarp]

what's this?

[brittle pawn]

maybe too small to read after clipping

basically sire ert note

[hollow escarp]

yeah

[stoic needle]

[brittle pawn]

gonna introduce him to spreadsheets and blow his mind

[stoic needle]

Just use a spreadsheet man

[low girder]

[hollow escarp]

there are some good raid leading templates already

not sure where to find them

with notes for each class

on each boss

just copy paste in ERT

[brittle pawn]

im pretty sure ive posted that in our raid channel before

[green peak]

Nerd

[hollow escarp]

at least the guy wants to kill the boss

[green peak]

Been stuck on Mythic Hungering Destroyer for 2 days. I switched to Ass for it and am having great success, though I miss my old grappling hook.

[keen raven]

Does numbing poison work on bosses? Like does it work on Denathrius?

[balmy condor]

yes

[keen raven]

Does it work on cast speed as well? or just attack speed

[balmy condor]

attack only

[low girder]

curse of weakness is also still better, it just requires upkeep from the warlock

though it is 2m

[balmy condor]

it stacks as well

[low girder]

i was told it didn't

[balmy condor]

it does

[green peak]

Boss attacks do weird resets though. It is hard to track.

[balmy condor]

yuhp

[carmine token]

I am guessing there's no point in picking MA when runnin the MA leggo ,right?

[balmy condor]

correct

crit caps at 100%

[carmine token]

I figured, but you can never know with tooltips sometimes in this game

[fathom swift]

i was also under the impression it didn't stack, i can try look at some logs but do you have an example on hand?

[balmy condor]

there's been multiple conversations about it in here

let me see if I can find it

[dusky vault]

If it stacks that would mean rogue has raid utility, therefore it won't stack

[balmy condor]

#assassination message

#subtlety message

[fathom swift]

sweet ty

[low girder]

so our numbing + CoW on sire was very helpful

[hollow escarp]

so it's not bad that we are 3 rogues in our roster

[plain thistle]

vanish > parry opener sadge

[hollow escarp]

EP gamer

[stoic needle]

ethical non-pi gaming

[plain thistle]

that boss, not sure why, but I got like 4-5 parry mid fight

attacking from behind

[hollow escarp]

happens to me all the time

I wanna blame the tanks

but I look at them and they are fine lol

[stoic needle]

i think its when she turns to cast shit on people

[plain thistle]

windfury totem power!!!!

[stoic needle]

PI is ethical

[dusky vault]

Just remove parries, its the most tilting thing

[hollow escarp]

I think you lose more damage on that boss if you get geometry mechanic

rather than parry opener

[dusky vault]

Getting the beam right after you press vendetta is peak innerva gaming

[low girder]

i imagine much like it would be getting shiv into feast + upheaval wombo combo

[plain thistle]

for sure, I got 0 orb/line thing

[hollow escarp]

my best parse was 1k lower dps than yours lol

I tried EP on the recent kill but I had 100 less dps because of orb

I was overcapping energy a lot

especially with blindside procs

and I thought I should try EP instead

[plain thistle]

I sim like 15-20 dps lower with EP/Vigor for pure single target, testing using it for any boss where there is more than 1 target, doing fine so far

[low girder]

15-20

are you necro?

[plain thistle]

just denath I did with blindside

nah, venthyr

[low girder]

wtf

it's way lower than that for me

clearly i need more haste

[hollow escarp]

gonna sim as well now

[plain thistle]

25% crit, 24% haste

[low girder]

yeah i only have like 16% haste or something

EP/vigor -66 for me

[plain thistle]

its actually 29 dps lower, not 15-20

[hollow escarp]

not bad

that's with IQD

[strange python]

Can you dodge the night hunters on denathtrius with evasion

[hollow escarp]

just checked the dungeon journal on that ability

didn't knew you can heal the boss if you stand in the circle

[stable ibex]

would you guys use gloom for M+ or deff run zoldyck.

[dusky vault]

Hmm vigor+ep is 60 dps less for me at similar dps to kojack

[balmy condor]

gloom?

[hollow escarp]

gloomblade

[stable ibex]

doomblade

[balmy condor]

doomblade isn't recommended for m+

[stable ibex]

thats what i thought. looked at the pin tho and the sim showed it was just behind for dungeon so wasnt sure the consensus

and for assassination only rogue, would you choose zoldyck over ma?

[balmy condor]

generally yes

MA works fine

[stable ibex]

and the covenants are close enuff that if i go vent, it wont matter

[balmy condor]

yes

[stable ibex]

ty for the clarifications

[balmy condor]

np

[stoic needle]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

TWO FUCKING IQD DROPPED IN ONE RUN AND I DIDNT GET ONE

IM GONNA NECK

[obtuse valley]

yeah I cant decide what cov to make my assass alt either, venthyr seems like its super strong in ST and makes rotation smoother but bone spike is tempting for more than 1 targ but most top parses are venth even on fights that arent solely ST

[stable ibex]

i dont feel like micro managing bone spike

im tired of every alt needing to be night fae

so venthyr was the easy choice

[hollow escarp]

flag requires a bit more setup

[balmy condor]

that's just not true

[hollow escarp]

how so?

[balmy condor]

flag is just a button you hit every minute and a half

[hollow escarp]

oh, well I was looking it from a different perspective

you can't afford to move from boss while flag is up

[misty holly]

I thought you had to line it up with cooldowns like you do Shiv.

[hollow escarp]

unless you are fine with 6-10 stacks

[misty holly]

jk pls dont ban me!!

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

so it's like vendetta and shiv and envenom and melee hits and adrenaline rush and shadow blades and sod and dance and every other self-buffing cooldown in existence

[edgy mango]

[hollow escarp]

but we are comparing covenant abilities

with each other

not with other rogue cooldowns

[balmy condor]

sure

but you said it requires setup

yet it's the same as all the other cooldowns

[obtuse valley]

for people whove played both necro and venth in both raid and m+ which do you like better/was performance much different?

[balmy condor]

and you never hear anyone go "well vend needs setup"

[hollow escarp]

want me to say uptime?

[balmy condor]

no idc what you call it

it's just irrelevant

[stoic needle]

ns+CT is hilarious

[hollow escarp]

so on xymox I can press flag and go place my portal?

[edgy mango]

Sometimes,

It really do be like that.

[balmy condor]

^

[hollow escarp]

I think we are just going circles

[balmy condor]

like the argument is "oh no flag when I can't hit boss sucks"

which is always the weirdest thing to me

because that's the argument for everything that's ever existed

[edgy mango]

Except I guess Sepsis.

[hollow escarp]

but we're comparing covenant abilities, you don't lose cov ability value if you have to do a mechanic and you just pressed it

[edgy mango]

Which I think you are trying to argue in favour of?

[hollow escarp]

no, I just forgot to change my pfp

[edgy mango]

Oh, you are a huge coward

[balmy condor]

I just pressed sbs and got lbe, or cp, and it's low cost, so now I'm overcapping energy

fucking rip

needs uptime

[stoic needle]

literally unusable trash

gg

[edgy mango]

That's my favourite part of Sepsis, the icon.

[obtuse valley]

it does have a rather aesthetic icon

[balmy condor]

you lose damage when you're off the boss

the difference between the covenants for that

doesn't matter

[obtuse valley]

I just cant have a 4th character be NF lol

[balmy condor]

hold it for 5 seconds if you have to

big whoop

most of your damage loss will come from actually just not hitting the boss

but worrying about the situation sometimes maybe perhaps where it happens to line up and you miss 3 seconds of flag uptime

[stable ibex]

i think KoJack would have been more clear if he used the word prepare instead of setup

[balmy condor]

is just silly

[stable ibex]

but im speculating

[hollow escarp]

last time I used uptime it turned out worse

[balmy condor]

idc if it's prepare or setup or uptime or apples

[obtuse ruin]

Is that m+? How does ns ct work

[balmy condor]

it's just wrong

[obtuse valley]

im leaning towards playing necro but ill test it and venthyr before I hit 60 on my rogue before committing to either one and see which I like better

[stoic needle]

MFD>CT from stealth

[hollow escarp]

I fail to see how it's wrong when we are comparing 4 covenant abilities, but I guess it doesn't matter that much

[stable ibex]

well kojack, all i meant intiially is that SBS requires more micro

[balmy condor]

it's wrong because they all have that argument

the difference is so irrelevant

people worry so much about things missing or not being 100% this expac

oh no niya burrs has the chance to miss, so we don't use it?

[stable ibex]

i mostly worry if im gonna fall through the sky when doing bastions flight school world quests

[hollow escarp]

I'm not worrying at all, it's just that it feels more punishing to press flag and get a mechanic than it is for to press Sepsis

[stable ibex]

sepsis triggers me with the hotbar swap. i dont care for that

[balmy condor]

strictly speaking, sure

[obtuse valley]

ez just play bone spike then

[stable ibex]

and i really dont want yet another nf dps

[balmy condor]

the ez solution to this is just don't use a stealth bar

[hollow escarp]

venthyr and necro are the public's favorite right now anyway

[stable ibex]

im a new rogue so once i get more advanced Wispyr 🙂

[balmy condor]

I feel like stealth bar is more confusing

but aight

[hollow escarp]

I hate it more on druids tbf

[obtuse valley]

I just like bone spike for the extra cleave rot and bone smith soulbind is nice for the crit proc, love that shit on my ele

[balmy condor]

but if it works for you

then it works I guess

[hollow escarp]

Heimir for the clutch kills

[balmy condor]

I remember when I first started playing the game, one of the first things I did was turn off my stealth bar

good times

[hollow escarp]

how do you do that? besides not keybinding anything on it?

[balmy condor]

back then I used bartender

not sure if base UI has paging settings

[stable ibex]

tbh i never even considered it. i just went with it. but ill playaround and see how it feels

[balmy condor]

but with any action bar addon

you can just change the paging

[hollow escarp]

yeah

[balmy condor]

yeh I mean it's mostly preference

but it's giga tilting for me

[hollow escarp]

I just duplicated my spells on each stance bar

[balmy condor]

especially for sin, there's really no abilities that you use exclusively from stealth

aside from like cheap shot, which we don't really use in pve since it's a fairly sizable dps loss

it kinda makes sense for sub with dance

but then you get into bar lag jank and action bar switching

and then you have to make like 4 macro's for dance, or bind to a different button

and if you're binding to a different button, then the whole stance paging thing doesn't really make sense either

idk I just fucking hate stance bars

[hollow escarp]

for outlaw just put ambush on sinister strike

[balmy condor]

they don't make sense

[strange python]

Just to make sure I'm not practicing the wrong opener or anything since I've just switched to venthyr but with flag it's

mut > snd > mut > gar > flag > rupture > shiv > vendetta > as normal?

[balmy condor]

yep looks good

[strange python]

Great

And for recasts of flag I should make sure I've got a 4/5 cp finisher ready to go, right?

[balmy condor]

yes

[strange python]

Got it, thank you.

[dusky vault]

Wouldn't vendetta prior to flag be better for the damage amp on it or is the haste from flag later more important or is the difference so small like most opener logic that it actually doesn't matter?

[slow marsh]

I mean vendetta isn't on global

[balmy condor]

who knows

[slow marsh]

But I think it's technically better to start ramping flag before popping vendetta but i'm sure it's a very small difference

[balmy condor]

I tried simming the difference and I actually could not get my sim to be accurate enough to find a difference in dps

[slow marsh]

Flag lasts 24 sec and vendetta lasts 20 sec so take from that what you will

[balmy condor]

it was within like 0.4 dps of each other

[slow marsh]

yeah i can see that

[dusky vault]

Ok good to know

Is there any way to Sim sludgefist pillars?

Ie 10-12s burst window with any accuracy

[slow marsh]

depends when you lust

but no i dont think so it's more of a experimental thing i think

[dusky vault]

4th pillar, standard mythic strat. Holding flag to use with ven on pull, 2nd and 4th pillars. Using IQD on pull and 4th

[heavy trail]

Starting to do OK damage as ass and sub thanks to these channels 🙂 Up to 195 or so ilevel

[dusky vault]

Anecdotally it feels stronger using flag as the first gcd after he hits the pillar followed by shiv but others have said flag as he charges so idk

[balmy condor]

yes, but no

you can sim the vulnerability and even the movement, but the APL doesn't actually give a shit about it

so if your goal is to see where to place cd's on it, it's not actually going to play around pillars

cause it doesn't know how

[stable ibex]

i couldnt find info on this, but does poison bomb have a very low proc chance or am i just unlucky?

[dusky vault]

Ok good to know. So no way to determine highest 10s burst combo with predefined parameters such as all dots rolling inc/ex flag. Or is this just something to test on a target dummy myself

[dusky vault]

4% per combo point spent, so roughly 1/5 finishers will proc poison bomb

[stable ibex]

it feels less than that though.

[balmy condor]

I mean technically you can sim that sort of stuff

but you're gonna run into huge problems with variance and getting results accurate enough

I tried making a script to do that sort of calculation back in late legion

and it ended up just not being able to be accurate enough ever

[agile ledge]

I may have asked this question but I honestly dont remember.

Should I garrote and rupture a secondary boss on mythic council or just garrot or just rupture?

[balmy condor]

both

[dusky vault]

Yep its guaranteed to proc when the boss is moving

[agile ledge]

Also, my guild is stuck on the beginning of the last boss. Are you killing the gargoyle that spawns or are you trying to zerg him to 50%

[dusky vault]

Ok thank you for your knowledge dump

[dusky vault]

Our guild killed the first 3 and killed it 2 weeks ago

[balmy condor]

np

[frigid kestrel]

We are killing the first Gargoyle and then kiting the second until dance comes up (because when the second drops it’s right by the %50 mark)

We keep getting it to sub %4 but people don’t know how to stay on attendants

[dusky vault]

Yeah after the 3rd dance it gets crazy

We only had a few alive on our kill

Reclear might be rough

[stoic trail]

Hi guys, with CT talented, do we use it on single target situations (i.e. boss on a myth +)?

[dusky vault]

Yes you want to maintain CT except during shiv windows even on ST

[balmy condor]

yes

^

[stoic trail]

Alright got it! Thank you

[split veldt]

[solar hare]

you raid from 7:30 to 11:30

[hollow escarp]

I was about to say it's nice to get so many pulls in first night

[split veldt]

si

[solar hare]

how many days a week

[split veldt]

2

[solar hare]

i c

[stoic needle]

we raid 8-12

[solar hare]

yeah were 8:30-11:30 3 days

[hollow escarp]

3 x 3 here

[solar hare]

4 hours just seems like hell

i dont like 3 hours

[split veldt]

we were 7-11, but all the people with families needed that extra 30 minutes so it got bumped to 730

[hollow escarp]

messes up with flask timers

either 2 or 4

I'm an alchemist

[split veldt]

4 hours is fun, 2 hours, break, 2 hours more

plus we're only 2 days

[fallow otter]

I am now as well, thank sweet baby jesus we clear in 2 nights 👍

[fathom swift]

i dont like doing less than 4, feels like you dont get enough done on prog and cant always finish farm in 1 night with less

[split veldt]

this

especially true for us since we're 2 days

but id go 3x4 if everyone else could

[hollow escarp]

it's also raider attendance, sometimes it's hard to get the same 20 people on 3 different days

[split veldt]

truth

[hollow escarp]

we actually have this issue

and progress is not consistent

[split veldt]

90% of my raid is old people, most wouldnt be able to do 3

[hollow escarp]

define old

[split veldt]

im second oldest at 36

[balmy condor]

[split veldt]

my life is over already

[fathom swift]

👴

[hollow escarp]

I'm still young then

[balmy condor]

you're older than like 90% of this server

[split veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/boomer-alert-speaker-alarm-gif-15124610

i was like 21 when vanilla came out

[hollow escarp]

not 30 yet

[split veldt]

lucky

[solar hare]

I turned 22 today

I was messing around with CT on M sire today

Was some fun

Poison bomb is so lame

Bring back legion PB

[split veldt]

legion PB was good, but almost too good, all the top parses were PB

and every time a tank moved shit out of it

but it would be nice if they buffed it a bit

[gloomy knoll]

if legion pb meta comes back

i'm rerolling

[last mulch]

Hey question are the links in the rules updated like the ravenhold one?

[gloomy knoll]

that was the worst shit ever

your parse was literally pure rng pb procs

[last mulch]

i just wanna know if well placed steel is any good or should i keep sudden fractures

[hollow escarp]

you can sim that in raidbots

[last mulch]

oki

[weak horizon]

Any of you have experience running seeds on xymox? I'm wondering if I should switch to outlaw for the hook + theo for the 2 doors

[hollow escarp]

are you doing any other seed than the melee one?

if you do the melee one, you can just use portal

but outlaw hook is definitely faster

[weak horizon]

I've been doing melee but I kind of want to try to do a harder one to help prog out as a guildie seems kind of weak at it

[hollow escarp]

I only did the melee one

but we have enough mages and hunters to take care of the rest

[weak horizon]

Gotcha, thanks for the info

[hollow escarp]

np

[balmy condor]

15-20

racials really really don't matter

putting mechagnome aside for a second, since that's a bit of an outlier

all the races are within 50-60ish dps

from worst to best

yeh

super whatever

np

[torn atlas]

my Sin orc is fabulous tyvm

[fervent beacon]

Undead or bust

[gloomy fern]

so do i need to save more than addon and WTF folder for my ui? cant remember

[fallow otter]

No

Just those 2

Ajour does it for you if you use that

[fallow river]

Can't decide between necrolord or venthyr, any recommendations? Venthyr seems to be a lot more popular for some reason

[gloomy fern]

well its the best for ST and raiding where the spec excels

click pins for sims

[strange python]

I’d say raid is a lot more than st

[gloomy fern]

ofc but you dont play this spec for aoe so might as well go all in for what ur good at

if raiding is ur thing

[strange python]

i just didn’t read that correctly

[fallow river]

Is outlaw better at mythic+ than assassination?

[mossy crown]

crit/haste on Zold?

[torn atlas]

Outlaw provides better utility with Gouge as an extra stun, you can also talent for 1.5 minute blinds, it also has stronger natural cleave with Blade Flurry. Sin has better ST damage for prio/bosses, decent multi target damage but you need to actually do more work for it by cycling through targets/maintaining bleeds&poison.
But unless you're looking to do higher than 15s it's probably not a huge difference one way or the other.

[solar flicker]

is it normal for 200 to 226 lashing to be +2 dps

[gloomy knoll]

no

i believe they should be like 15ish dps

each lvl

so that should be like +30

[shy dust]

Embrace IQD

New BiS

👀

[stoic needle]

[plain onyx]

Is there a macro that I can combine Vendetta and my trinket at the same time ?

[shy dust]

Yes

Vendetta and use whichever slot it is

I wouldn’t recommend it generally speaking

Since not all trinkets are 2 mins

[quiet valley]

Vendetta also has no impact on for example memory of past sins, which probably is the 2 min trinket you have

But say badge or IQD, it does but those dont share a CD with Vendetta either

[plain onyx]

I just need some good useful macros that will make my rotation a little easiter because sometimes I don't follow up 😔

[shy dust]

Better to learn over time than develop a bad habit

[quiet valley]

I mean if u use memory and want to reduce buttons just do

#showtooltip Vendetta
/cast Vendetta
/use 13 (or 14)

But i agree with Rae, especially since most trinkets dont line up and/or have synergy with Vendetta

I just got my Vessel from Sire instead of Memory. I have use 14 on a macro out of laziness (i also have a use trinket macro bound that i didnt use) which made me hold trinket for 30s before i realized. Sucks to create bad habits

[plain onyx]

Alright, got it. thanks yall ❤️

[sacred flax]

do you guys macro trinket with flagellation?

[balmy condor]

Should really matter

I would, as per convo above

Avoid macroing trinkets due to bad muscle memory

But if you have a 1:30 trinket, I guess go for it

[sacred flax]

its the iqd actually

[balmy condor]

Definitely wouldn’t macro that

[gloomy fern]

macro for iqd is a must

[limber lion]

Every button that I press in my rotation causes one action to happen. You're better off learning to properly manage your keybinds straight from the get-go instead of defaulting to using macros that cause multiple things to happen. It's much harder to stop doing that once you've been doing that for a while instead of learning learning to manage your keybinds, practicing and getting better at using your skills at the start. After some point all of that becomes automatic and you don't have to think about which button does what.

Don't look for shortcuts to make things easier now, it'll just handicap you in the future.

[balmy condor]

A must if you’re trying to troll yourself I guess

hits flag
Iqd: ITS MY TIME FOR MANA

[gloomy fern]

for stats in exec

[shy dust]

Self target macro is very nice

[balmy condor]

Well yeah but not macroing it into other abilities

Which is the question here

[crimson grove]

is there any benefit to doing vendetta -> flag over flag -> vendetta? basically what im asking does flag benefit from vendetta or not?

[gloomy knoll]

nope

margin of error dps diff apparently

and yes it gets the 30% i believe

i personally like using vendetta right before i garrote or flag depending on the boss

[crimson grove]

yea ok i see, thanks

[fallow solar]

Just macro all your abilitys into one cast sequence macro and get to spaming one button

[slim wagon]

oh, you have played hunter in tbc I see

[abstract holly]

So I was looking through some top dps assa logs and I saw this guy cast double rupture at least twice in the fight, the boss is mythic hungering. Did he just missclick twice or am I missing something?

[limber lion]

He got parried

Casting ruptures twice is normally not possible because the first rupture eats up all of your combo points

If you get parried, it doesn't.

[abstract holly]

Ah ye, thanks

[scarlet sequoia]

np

[gloomy fern]

looking at them 100% pi logs for inspo

i respect it

[limber lion]

[gloomy fern]

raz playing necro

and getting pi treatment what a life

[scarlet sequoia]

don’t be jealous

[patent topaz]

yo, do we have any raz sims? need my fix

[gloomy fern]

u did have some unfortunate kill timers though

tell raid to stop dps for you

[fickle trout]

#showtooltip [nomodifier] Mutilate; [modifier:shift] Poisoned Knife; [modifier:alt] Mutilate; [modifier:ctrl] Mutilate
/startattack
/use 13
/use 14
/cast [nomodifier] Mutilate; [modifier:shift] Poisoned Knife

i use Dreadfire Vessel with that on CD. My other trinket is passive

[scarlet sequoia]

we play for speed clears!

[gloomy fern]

1.5h full clear looks nice

[scarlet sequoia]

yeah

[gloomy fern]

with buyer also

or whats the deal with baab and sarsari alts who u wanted to gear? xD

or maybe spot to funnel gear from le pvp player

[scarlet sequoia]

yeah

[gusty leaf]

hey friends I am very new to sin rogue and am still getting the hang of it. I have a question regarding shiv: lets say all my dots are rolling on ST and i throw in a mutilate which grants me 3 cp, is it better to shiv + 4cp envenom or mutilate + 5 cp envenom or mutilate + shiv + 5cp envenom (waste 1 cp)?

[crimson grove]

i'd say using shiv on max combo points is no big deal, if you can use it at 4 points great but using shiv at 5 is often what i do

[limber lion]

You use Shiv on cooldown.

If you're at 3cp, hope that it crits

If it doesn't then you muti again

Just press it on cd

Nothing special about it

[whole onyx]

So not even try to make sure it lines up with vendetta?

[limber lion]

0cp? Shiv

2cp? Shiv

6cp? Shiv

[limber lion]

Afaik you can hold Shiv for max 12s for Vendetta, but it's much easier to just use it on cd

You should have Shiv ready during the Vendetta window even if you use it 10s before Vendetta comes up

[gusty leaf]

I see, thats very helpful thanks

[gloomy fern]

but what do i do on 1 cp

[ruby birch]

shiv

[gusty leaf]

So you would muti at 4 cp into envenom? Wouldnt that be a waste of 1/2 cp?

[limber lion]

Swap specs.

[limber lion]

The rule is

Always finish at 5-6cp with DS

Or 4-5 with Vigor

Even if you might lose cp from your muti critting

[fallen arch]

Ceverion is a real mvp, learning so much from these discussions lol