Rings and necks have higher secondary stat than other peices and it can be hard to find rings and necks with your desired distribution
#assassination
stoic needle
north nebula
Ok, I'll make ring. Be iLvL upgrade too
narrow ravine
how about council? is it even worth for that fight?
north nebula
I don't have a lot of gold. 245k total on all of my account
rustic whale
check out 213 BOEs
back / wrist / ring and boots
might be ideal price
like 20k-40k
and good luck on your journey
north nebula
wrist 69k, boots 135k
north nebula
Yup
north nebula
Ooooo
rustic whale
no risking on buying that but gold is your gold
nocturne hawk
I don't have a lot of gold. 245k total on all of my account
Spam callings on all your toons, low effort gold
rustic whale
also open the big chests in the maps
north nebula
I have only 2 60s. My main Blood Dk, andd now this sin rogue
rustic whale
they provide 1k gold net
north nebula
Might buy those 213 wrists later though.
rustic whale
definetly a kick start
north nebula
Gotta go to work, thanks for the help all! o/
rustic whale
take care
balmy condor
how about council? is it even worth for that fight?
Garrotes on immune bosses is okay, ruptures are not
wind totem
I'm NF. Is there a way for me to sim myself as venthyr? I tried it by replacing the soulbinds however it shows it as a dps loss and I have the feeling it's basically not using flagellation but I might be wrong. I tried opening the html report but it only showed the breakdown of the top sim which was night fae for me.
limber lion
I'm NF. Is there a way for me to sim myself as venthyr? I tried it by replacing ...
Use Top Gear in Raidbots.com. There you can choose different soulbinds for yourself.
If you choose a Venthyr-soulbind (like Nadja) then the sim will use its covenant ability.
wind totem
Did you read what I said? That's what I've done.
Alright, than why is it simming less?
limber lion
Link your sim.
limber lion
Your simming Light Movement, that's why.
Try simming Patchwork and Nadjia will rise up.
Also sim with BS / DS
stoic needle
Also sim with lashing scars
lethal magnet
it is (with lashing scars)
wind totem
and try again
cunning surge
Lashing Scars PULPS
limber lion
And sim using Doomblade
stoic needle
Without lashing scars venthyr is only like .5% ahead of night fae
limber lion
I got you 500+ dps by simming again with proper conduits/talents/legendary
Venthyr being 346 dps higher than NF
wind totem
I'm intentionally simming with zoldyck
since I want releatie dps increase
Im getting doomblade next week
when i get the soul ash
Im aware zoldyck has fallen behind
limber lion
Fair enough
wind totem
So I'm trying to see how much of an improvement percentage wise it is
to see whether it's worth switching
since I dont raid on a high enough level to need to min max
wind totem
and I'm honestly kin of a fan of Night fae.
limber lion
With Zoldyck it's around 150 dps higher
subtle tundra
vampire gang
cunning surge
2.6% increase, not bad
But yeah I feel it
wind totem
I like Soulshape and the covenant overall and I've done almost everything there is to do in my covenant and I dread losing all that progress
cunning surge
stoic needle
Nothing wrong with sticking to night fae if you like it
limber lion
If you don't care for that 150 dps, then just stick to nf
Soulshape is bis
I wish I had it
I miss it
cunning surge
Yeah I mean, plenty of people are still pulping meters as Night Fae, Venthyr is just strictly better is all
Both are very viable
onyx wind
Actually liking door of shadows a lot
feels so good in dungeons and pvp
raid its kinda useless tho
wind totem
Follow up question
What changed that made DS better than Vigor even as a night fae?
I'm simming myself with Zoldyck
onyx wind
haste
limber lion
and it's simming + 123 dps
I doubt DS is giving you +123 dps tbh
cunning surge
I think it's also 6 CP Envenom's with Doomblade bonus
onyx wind
more dmg from finishers = more dmg
limber lion
Your simming CtO on default...
wind totem
Oh so it's a gear thing basically
balmy condor
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uXPtJhoX4ocSdJiMevAzr6
didn't actually sim vigor there
wind totem
god damn it
limber lion
Try simming with WPS and Vigor my boy
wind totem
what the fuck is wrong with this shit
prisma crescent
balmy condor
I'm gonna say user error
anyway, here's an actual simhttps://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/52BLRwc44dHyXa3PpBBcry
limber lion
I'm gonna say user error
Gonna agree here
Vigor NF is still ahead as you can see.
DS is only better if you swapped to Venthyr
balmy condor
yeppers
wind totem
Alright
fair
I simmed myself properly and I'm getting a result similar to the one you linked
thanks for the help
balmy condor
np
limber lion
no worries buddy
wind totem
One more question. As Night Fae should I use Ambush from the sepsis proc or is it stricly worse without blindside and I should just use Mutilate?
limber lion
One more question. As Night Fae should I use Ambush from the sepsis proc or is i...
You can use it, doesn't really matter.
And with that, I'm off to bed. Have fun Whispyr 
lost mist
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2rGLEo4zHJu2BuKS1D47k8
18% vers :////// really need to change my 2nd ring
raven hawk
depending on what diff and the speed of which your grp kills it since IQD is 3min. for mythic you want it on pull and 4th pillar
wind totem
Why is it that IQD is so good. Seems counter intuitive since it's a 3 min cd and doesn't align well with vendetta at all.
rancid gulch
massive stat bonus
prisma crescent
Found the motivation to farm Ve'nari sockets...140 dps increase
prisma crescent
stoic needle
I don't believe in putting sockets on 220 gear just to replace it
And all my 226s aren't socketable or have bad stats 
civic trellis
depending on what diff and the speed of which your grp kills it since IQD is 3mi...
i still think its worth on 1st and 4th pilar
what vendetta does, 1 free skill (60 energy) and 30% dmg buff?
Pilar gives 100%
vivid nexus
so is venth or necro better for pvp atm for assasination
dense hamlet
u choose they are both pretty strong in pvp
vivid nexus
so i guess pve i guess venth is better?
dense hamlet
yep
quiet juniper
how does crit works ? Does each tick has to crit or if the garrot for example crit every damage will ?
dense hamlet
every tick has a chance to crit
quiet juniper
I see, so the main reason we have crit is to generate cb ?
nocturne hawk
Is it better to use 3 vendettas all not lined up with lust, or 2 vendettas with one of them with lust?
plain thistle
Is it better to use 3 vendettas all not lined up with lust, or 2 vendettas with ...
3 vendettas
rapid prism
Question about opening rotation against two targets. (Hunstman in CN) I play Blindside/MA with doomsblade leggo.
Opener is usually mut-snd-mut-gar-rup-covenant-vandetta-mut-shiv-vanish-env-mut-env etc.
Would it be better off to full bleed both targets before vendetta burst on one? So something like.
Mut-snd-mut-gar-rup- switch target- mut-rup-mut-crimson-garrote-covenant-vandetta-mut-shiv-vanish-env-mut-env etc.
Can't find anything online about a good huntsman opener.
Or is it just standard opener then spread bleeds after vendetta window?
plain thistle
and if you check huntsman logs you will see people doing both ways, the difference is probably small
rapid prism
How do you see order of abilities and targets in logs?
That would be a huge help if I can analyze like that
plain thistle
click the person you want, casts tab and select timeline
if you hover over the skill you can see the target
rapid prism
Fucking godsend. Thank you. I'll find my answers now lol
rapid prism
I'm just happy I'm no longer playing outlaw for ST XD
civic trellis
And with necro you can have 1 cov for outlaw and 1 for sins
😄
No more hs to change conduits
mortal umbra
@civic trellis what you mean with 1 cov for outlaw and 1 for sin
civic trellis
you can play with emeni for sin
and gemstones for outlaw
almost no dps difference
stoic needle
You can do the same for venthyr but you can use both soulbinds
Since sin never really uses double potency for either
You put cto in the 2nd slot and get to use nadjia or theotar
pure moth
Thanks.. i was watching the replay to see persons target.. but this is easier.
strange python
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
empty peak
that isnt wha ti sim
crit is higher than vers
not really equal it's a slightly higher coefficient
abstract jolt
whats assassin opener on cleave fights?
do I garrote ruptur eboth before shiv and burst or do I leave rupture off second at start
nocturne hawk
crit is higher than vers
Stat weights are different for everyone. Depends on what your current stats are
glacial quarry
can we macro any of our cds together? vendetta is ogcd iirc, so flag+vendetta might be decent to macro together? ofc i have them separate too, but it's more just that i feel like my dumbness makes me miss a second of uptime when i'm hitting the skills in really quick succession
winged basin
crit haste on hands for leggo yeah?
empty peak
@nocturne hawk im running statistical models over 1,000,000 iterations with a 300 second fight time, gear may change and when you approach various soft caps and such it may also improve other certain secondary stats and their weights may improve but computations are computations so yes, it may matter how much of a current stat you have but as a baseline, level 60 rogue your best stats are irrefutably Haste, Crit, Vers, Mastery as per the million iterations of a stock 60 human rogue. (yes race matters as well)
nocturne hawk
stoic needle
do I garrote ruptur eboth before shiv and burst or do I leave rupture off second...
Garotte and rupture both first before shiv+vendetta yes
stoic needle
It's just a different pace. I don't mind it at all because it's some big damage
abstract jolt
on inerva shuld I garotte + rupture both adds or skip on small one?
my parses on here way low atm
lament mica
in my raid the little casting adds die almost instantly, so I don't ever bother to dot them
if they live, it should be worth to garrote them
thorny shore
guys how much haste should i have to start feel good playing deeper st as venthyr, cause my sins are showing 1% better than vigor but on bosses its so weird
ebon tapir
Is there a way to sim conduits without having to swap them for each sim? not trying to lose all my conduit energy lol
stoic needle
Is there a way to sim conduits without having to swap them for each sim? not try...
Top gear
stoic needle
guys how much haste should i have to start feel good playing deeper st as venthy...
It's just always going to be a slower playstyle that you have to get used to
scenic root
I main outlaw for keys but thinking of trying assassination for raiding, so I'm necro for cov. Is the dps difference noticable to the point I'm better staying on outlaw in raid?
slow marsh
Necro sin is still good and you will still be better than outlaw outside of slg
tawny barn
do you think they buff kyrian or shall i swap kappa
slow marsh
Necro sin is the 2nd best cov atm for us
tawny barn
im too lazy to farm
teal bloom
So you'd want to delay vanish for the Sepsis burst instead of casting it immediately after sepsis and shiv? So you'd optimally vanish when sepsis has 4 seconds remaining, right?
tawny barn
i think they nerf flag conduit and it be as good or wrose than necro
prob necro most safest
slow marsh
I think you should look at pins
tawny barn
dude
can u read
flag cuinduit is way too strong at the moment, they will defo nerf it
shy dust
i think they nerf flag conduit and it be as good or wrose than necro
why tho
slow marsh
If they nerf flag conduit we lose 100 dps and it's still bis
slow marsh
We just use wps but venthyr is still bis
stoic needle
If they haven't nerfed cto they won't nerf lashing
tawny barn
im saying when they nerf if it be very close to necro
sand dirge
why should they nerf it when fire mages have infernal cascade
rich dawn
so venthryr wthe way to go
stoic needle
They aren't going to nerf it
slate kernel
Any1 know what missives you are supposed to use with master assassin and Doombalde?
tawny barn
and because necro is bis for outlaw for me its safest choice
slow marsh
Venthyr will still be ahead by enough of a margin for it to matter. I don't get what you're trying to prove here
Outlaw is booty cheeks on every fight save one
stoic needle
Crit haste or haste vers
slow marsh
It's good for m+ and that's it
warm portal
what about Icy Propulsion or Infernal Cascade for mages, our conduits are shit anyway
stoic needle
Erm
shy dust
im saying when they nerf if it be very close to necro
Why would they though
shy dust
Outlaw is booty cheeks on every fight save one
That’s just not true
slow marsh
Ok true sorry
stoic needle
Outlaw is pretty good for huntsman, inerva, council, and does fine on sire
slow marsh
It's good on sunking
shy dust
That’s
stoic needle
And slg
tawny barn
if u odnt think flag conduit is not good than i odtn know man
slow marsh
Lol it's not though?
tawny barn
ok
stoic needle
Outlaw is useless for breaking shields
Which is the only thing that matters on sun king
tawny barn
why do u htink every log has flag conduit
slow marsh
I didn't say progging
stoic needle
And nobody is saying that flag conduit isn't good
tawny barn
and even m+
tawny barn
exactly
shy dust
It’s an insane outlier
empty peak
the best spec is the spec you enjoy the most playing in all honesty im not making a living playing WoW, nor do I plan to.
stoic needle
But it's not going to get nerfed
tawny barn
its too strong both m+ and raids
stoic needle
its too strong both m+ and raids
Why haven't they nerfed cto then
fallen fable
How bad is assasin in m+, comparing to outlaw?
shy dust
Cto should be nerfed
slow marsh
Too strong kek
shy dust
It’s even stronger than it
stoic needle
It's not going to get nerfed though
simple wadi
Your arguing that a conduit for a pure dps class with no utility is too strong - think about that
slow marsh
Venthyr is very strong not because of the conduit but just because of how flag works in general
stoic needle
Even without the conduit it's still .5% above fae
tawny barn
dude ventrthyr is bis both single and oae
copper pollen
my sims are showing that i should be prioritising crit over haste at this stage but when looking at high end rogue there on nearly double the haste i am, any idea maybe why?
tawny barn
they will nerf it
stoic needle
my sims are showing that i should be prioritising crit over haste at this stage ...
Higher ilvl
stoic needle
dude ventrthyr is bis both single and oae
No it's not
slow marsh
And the fact you said you're kyrian and are going to stay kyrian is the most troll thing about this entire arguement in general
stoic needle
It's bis in single target, both night fae and necro are better in AOE
fathom lynx
guys how much haste should i have to start feel good playing deeper st as venthy...
1% difference is like 50-65 dps - if you really prefer Vigor and DS feels bad I wouldn't worry about it. DS is a slower play style, so I'm not sure any haste percentage will make it feel better.
shy dust
Necro
stoic needle
so like i said im about to hit 60- so whats better for eveything
There is no better for everything
shy dust
If you want to be versatile
glacial quarry
is DS best for m+ too?
shy dust
Necro is your best option
stoic needle
is DS best for m+ too?
Vigor/mfd are better in m+
rich dawn
versatile as in M+ and raid
shy dust
Because of outlaw being a premier m+ spec and favoring it
glacial quarry
Vigor/mfd are better in m+
ty, is mfd massively better? i'm not a great fan of it
stoic needle
ppl just salty coz they all went venthyr
What is this copium
tawny barn
cakm ur tits u still be good
stoic needle
ty, is mfd massively better? i'm not a great fan of it
Not at all, you get energy starved in the opener more frequently with mfd
It's really just whatever you prefer
glacial quarry
nice, vigor all the way then
shy dust
I mean heres the thing
stoic needle
Sin doesnt get as much from mfd as other specs
shy dust
Venthyr sin is nuts for st yes
But outlaw is the premier m+ spec
And goes necro
Why would you nerf lashing scars
When it’s only above average
When it comes to covenant conduits
rich dawn
but i dont plan to swiytch for M+
shy dust
By your logic shifting power and infernal cascade should be nerfed
rich dawn
i wanna play sin all the way
shy dust
Since all mages are night Fae and infernal is nuts
slow marsh
If you are thinking you will play outlaw for m+ and sin for raid then go Necro. If you're gonna go sin for both then go venthyr. If you don't care about life go kyrian
tawny barn
Venthyr sin is nuts for st yes
exactly what im saying sir
simple wadi
Both necro and venth are viable - choose what feels/looks best to you honestly
rich dawn
thanks pros
tawny barn
necro is safest choice for future
shy dust
Depends
stoic needle
exactly what im saying sir
They have conduits in the game that do more than lashing scars and haven't been nerfed yet
fallen fable
How viable is sin in m+
stoic needle
How viable is sin in m+
It's viable
slow marsh
necro is safest choice for future
Then why are you kyrian hmmmm
simple wadi
Necro is also a significantly higher skill cap - if you are new to rogue it’s gonna be a lot to handle on top of the rest of the class
tawny barn
i think with assa slow pace it be ok
for outlaw necro is pain in but i bet with high apm
slow marsh
Then stop trying to stir the pot. You are trying to spark some talk about optimizing for the future when you're 400 dps behind because you don't want to grind renown for 3 days
winged basin
how do you use bonespike in sgl target?
subtle tundra
necro is safest choice for future
its like 2 days of work to swap, there's nothing "safe for future"
stoic needle
how do you use bonespike in sgl target?
In place of mutilate outside of the MA window
tawny barn
all i said was that ventyhur acordign to pins is bis for single target and m+
stoic needle
But it's literally not bis for m+???
tawny barn
using that my hyphotesis is it will be nerffed
rapid prism
Which is the only thing that matters on sun king
I disagree. While it's not the best., If you save your next between the eyes and follow it with an on use trinket like skulker or vessel, then a vanish and an ambush sin dispatch. The damage is decent.
Wasn't top of the meters in shield damage but it was significant. And that also leaves covenant ability and adrenaline rush up for the next shield which is usually ranged cooldowns in our progression.
tawny barn
calm down and go look at ppl sims
glacial quarry
why do you think rogue covenants would be nerfed 
slow marsh
Bis for m+ is outlaw Necro
tawny barn
this is sin channel
tawny barn
im not talking about ourtlaw
stoic needle
I disagree. While it's not the best., If you save your next between the eyes and...
It's the worst of the 3 specs for breaking the shield that's not really arguable
subtle tundra
my dude.......
stoic needle
????
tawny barn
it has mix of aoe and isngle target
subtle tundra
youre clueless
tawny barn
god u ppl are retareded
shy dust
Wanna fix that spelling buddy
thorny rose
lol
shy dust
I disagree. While it's not the best., If you save your next between the eyes and...
For prog which breaking shield was the most important
shy dust
Sub was one of the best specs in the game
Sin bursts shield better than outlaw
For actual prog when it came to breaking shields
Outlaw was and is fucking dogshit
stoic needle
Prog is the only thing that matters
shy dust
overall is pointless
if you look at a fight
and decide what youre going to play based on what does most overall
youre an awful raider
rich dawn
man u guys havent made this ez for me lol
stoic needle
There's no easy answer
slow marsh
In my opinion there's no reason to play outlaw at all unless you are just a key pusher
slow marsh
I mean it's kind of not though
shy dust
no reason
stoic needle
It really is
shy dust
is just wrong
slg the hardest fight of the tier
the strongest rogue spec for it is outlaw
slow marsh
Yepper and almost any other melee cleave will outperform outlaw on that fight
stoic needle
shy dust
How does that relate
if youre rogue and are in
for slg
outlaw is the best pick
which means
there is a reason to play outlaw
stoic needle
It's also good on 4+ other fights in the raid
slow marsh
If you're rogue and in for slg then your guild likely isn't optimizing anyways unless you only have 5 people in the guild
So it doesn't really matter at that point
shy dust
If you're rogue and in for slg then your guild likely isn't optimizing anyways u...
i mean
good players
matter just as much
as a good spec for a fight
winged basin
one more question, you just hit the dog with a SBS right for the extra bleed? *** ON HUNTSMAN SORRY***
shy dust
unless youre playing at the absolute cutting edge then yes
slow marsh
Sure and a good player on a better spec would be best riggt
stoic needle
one more question, you just hit the dog with a SBS right for the extra bleed? **...
Fully dot the dog
winged basin
all fight?
shy dust
Sure and a good player on a better spec would be best riggt
skill disparity exists in practically every guild
stoic needle
As much as you can
winged basin
like keep both of them dotted?
shy dust
I played rogue and was in for every single fight this tier on prog
stoic needle
Yes
winged basin
okie dokie, that makes sense thanks bro. so used to fmage that playing my rogue again is hard
hard struggling lmfao
slow marsh
Awesome I'm happy for you
stoic needle
If the dog moves away from huntsman you want to only run over to it if you have sprint or shadowstep up to get back to huntsman quickly
Or door, or soulshape, etc
winged basin
bet
stoic needle
You can also run CT if you wanna parse
slow marsh
I'm saying that outlaw is the best option if you're forced to bring a rogue, sure. But it's much easier to just bring a solid dk or warrior or something else and bench rogue for the one fight
stoic needle
EP+CT
winged basin
thats another button that my brain has to press D: trying to remember basics, im down BAD rn
shy dust
I'm saying that outlaw is the best option if you're forced to bring a rogue, sur...
you balance between
bringing the best comp and your best players
winged basin
my brain knows only combust and aoe combust
stoic needle
I don't even think that dk or warrior will beat outlaw on damage on slg
slow marsh
I agree you do
shy dust
its moronic to just bench your rogue for a 2nd or 3rd dk
because its more optimial
and again
there is a reason to play outlaw this tier
just moronic to believe otherwise
slow marsh
But if you're not playing optimal then it doesn't really matter anyways
Just play kyrian
Idk I'm just of the belief that I'd rather be really good at one thing than be middle of the pack at a couple things
And rogue has that option right now
Thankfully
simple wadi
I don't even think that dk or warrior will beat outlaw on damage on slg
If they are played well they should and they are better for the burst phase
wild lion
With Master Assassin talent should i multilate or use my blindside proc?
bright moth
Blindside
abstract jolt
on council do I garotte all 3?
nocturne hawk
main target + 1 other
abstract jolt
huh only 1?
abstract jolt
ok
rancid warren
Is anybody rolling assa in M+? Is it viable compared to outlaw?
And also can i ask about lego and priority stats?
compact pumice
Is anybody rolling assa in M+? Is it viable compared to outlaw?
It's good, but sims slightly worse overall. More damage on ST though so might be good if your team is pushing high keys and particularly need that expertise.
compact pumice
And also can i ask about lego and priority stats?
Legos are Zoldyck or some say MA for M+, Doomblade is not bad either, more for ST though
Priority stats is basically best to sim it, it depends too much on your current gear
rancid warren
Um so outlaw better in global keystones?
And also when do you think assa performs better? Fortified/tyrannical?
compact pumice
Global? Strictly speaking outlaw does better on AOE which there is plenty of in M+, yes.
Tyrannical
rancid warren
Alright thx 😉
strange python
doomblade or master assassin in high keys?
compact pumice
Zoldyck sims the highest afaik
Doomblade prob beats out MA on higher keys due to the mobs living longer anyway
keen tree
The shades are a MASSIVE frustration this week 😦 I can't get in to stealth between packs without using vanish /sigh
nocturne hawk
MA is fine if you get your restealths, but spiteful sucks ass for that
compact pumice
This week is not fun for subterfuge 😦
hexed mesa
compact pumice
Outlaw cares less about that so I just stayed OL even on lower keys
true fractal
Hello guys. I was wonderingnif it is not better to go vendetta > muti until 4+cp > shiv > flagellation > vanish > envenom? Opposed to icy veins guide, where they say venthyr ability should go straight after vendetta.
stoic needle
I don't think doomblade particularly beats MA on high keys except for killing bosses on tyrannical
Ma is always going to be better in AOE
Yeah I'm straight up playing outlaw this week it's incredibly frustrating
compact pumice
Okay, but some packs can live long AF, thought that MA kinda gets a lot worse when you dont restealth more than once per minute
stoic needle
Even with that limitation it's still going to do more aoe than Doomblade. If the packs are living longer you get more vanishes
Vanishing with a pack of mobs fully dotted is quite a bit of damage
compact pumice
Fair enough
But you still 3x garrote out of vanish even with MA right?
do you 3x garrote + CT then to maximize the MA window?
stoic needle
Depends on the pack. If they'll live long enough you can triple garotte again, if not or if there's a prio target you can do the standard vanish envenom mut envenom
It's flexible
MA is a lot more fun and viable than people give it credit for as sin
lament mica
spiteful prob fucks over rogue more than any other class in the game huh
lament mica
feral druids like restealth but they dont' need it as bad as rogue / feral has mass root
gilded fossil
anyway to find what your APM in warcraft logs for a fight?
stoic needle
Delete storming and spiteful kthxbye
lament mica
well it just doesn't make sense cuz they did too many things to nerf rogue all at once
like maybe they were too strong last xpac in m+, but pick either affixes or nerfing aoe, not both
stoic needle
Why on gods green earth did they make the spirits keep you in combat
Just let us restealth and have it still follow us
compact pumice
tbh compared to how annoying Spiteful and Storming is then for casters the Quaking and Volcanic should be a lot worse to make it kind of equal
lament mica
quaking is really annoying for melee sometimes too
when i say that ppl call me bad sometimes but its true lol
if u have an hpal in SD theres just no room
compact pumice
It's annoying on specific places and with certain comps
4-5 melee teams are too crowded
and on Stradama it's too crowded
compact pumice
eh the bubble reduces that damage too though
stoic needle
No I don't think it does
compact pumice
quite certain we tried it last time
I feel like we should've been one shot if not
like otherwise it would surely be a run-killer
cause you can't be out nor inside
nocturne hawk
anyway to find what your APM in warcraft logs for a fight?
Casts tab - far right
gilded fossil
yeah got it thanks
nocturne hawk
Mut is x2 counted though
marsh yew
also something kinda sad but 190 zoldycs only simmed 175 dps higher for me than 210 DB when it was a 5 minute fight only in execute phase 😦 I assumed the dps difference would be a lot more noticeable if the fight was only in execute phase
compact pumice
That seems kind of small tbh, assuming quite good gear.
chrome mirage
manic pebble
do you know how to upgrade this helmet?
strange python
What's the opener now?
compact pumice
do you know how to upgrade this helmet?
Go to covenant upgrade guy, pay Valor. (A 184 head would cost a lot to upgrade to 220 though, around 5k valor if I’m not mistaken)
manic pebble
Go to covenant upgrade guy, pay Valor. (A 184 head would cost a lot to upgrade t...
thank you!
compact pumice
What's the opener now?
!guides
prisma monolithBOT
midnight quiver
Dumb question for Assassin - Opener as Necro... With Master Assassin, I've been using Mutilate out of stealth for the 50% chance to crit + seal fate bonus. Does Serrated Bone Spike make sense to use in stealth or just stick with Mut?
I assume Mut because you get 2, potential for 3 combo points on a crit. Not for the damage, just easier to put SnD up to start with.
compact pumice
If you crit both hits you get 4 cp with Muti
And with MA that’s a very high probability
Not sure about SBS during MA though. You can sim it and see what the bot does actually
midnight quiver
Oh Muti hits twice... Makes sense with the "attack with both weapons".
compact pumice
But usually the opener with MA is Muti>Snd>Muti (MA ends here)> Garrote, etc
midnight quiver
Yeah
I'll sim it and see, but the difference is 1 CP for SBS vs 2 for muti (potential for 4)
From what I'm reading, SBS is not considered a melee attack so Seal Fate can't proc from it.
quasi ledge
@midnight quiver Seal Fate works with SBS
midnight quiver
Hmm. Let me test it. If it does, you should average 3 CPs on a crit (if my math is right), and it's only 15 energy to start with. Does far more damage than mutilate does to begin with and the bleed is up for the doomblade legendary.
quasi ledge
You get 3, 4 or 5 from a crit. Depending on how many you have up, so on openers/single target you'll get 3 during MA windows (or chance to with MA talent)
midnight quiver
Might be worth it man, more burst right out of the gate
winged basin
one more time cause we are boutta pull, vendetta on first pilalr?
quasi ledge
@winged basin depends when you lust and what difficulty etc
patent pasture
When do you guys Flag in your opener? im currently doing: MU-SND-MU-GAR-FLAG-RUP, cuz its a small down time after the garrote, so it kinda fits, but is there a more optimal way where to put it? need to be sure before m sludge prog qq
balmy condor
Hmm. Let me test it. If it does, you should average 3 CPs on a crit (if my math ...
I threw some stuff at the APL while doing some testing on openers with CTTC/9.0.5 changes, and didn’t see an immediate gain using sbs in master assassin windows, so current the opener remains mut snd mut with vanish into mut env mut
Could be that I miss something initially, but nothing that I saw points to an early sbs
balmy condor
When do you guys Flag in your opener? im currently doing: MU-SND-MU-GAR-FLAG-RUP...
Nope, that’s fine
patent pasture
Aight thanks, also one more question for vanish, should i pool CP to vanish-envenom or is it just as good to insta vanish off CD to mutilate if low on CP?
winged basin
<@184838813472915456> depends when you lust and what difficulty etc
first pillar, heroic. its just a heroic alt run
I think I am gonna keep vendetta on first pilalr
balmy condor
Aight thanks, also one more question for vanish, should i pool CP to vanish-enve...
Not really a difference most of the time, you’re still going to end up with 2 muts most likely unless you’re running vigor and get lucky
prisma monolithBOT
jagged bobcat
!guide
topaz horizon
@jagged bobcat
torpid linden
can i post logs for help here
untold gazelle
anyone care to see what i'm doing wrong, i'll share logs, DM me please I usually play well as Outlaw but seems like i suck at Assa.
rich dawn
any rogues wanna help me do normal /low keys
proven laurel
Thinking about trying assassination over outlaw. Is venthyr necessary for raid? Also what does an ideal shiv window look like in terms of abilities used?
balmy condor
any rogues wanna help me do normal /low keys
This isn’t lfg
balmy condor
can i post logs for help here
Yes you can
balmy condor
anyone care to see what i'm doing wrong, i'll share logs, DM me please I usually...
Usually posting here will net you someone that will take a look
If they stick around without anyone looking, feel free to dm them to me and I’ll take a look when I can
ebon bramble
playing my sin rogue and my spriest, i feel like my sin rogue is the melee equivalent of spriest exchanging single target/aoe for good cleave. necrolord helps to complete the dot spec 😆
balmy condor
Isn’t spriest garbage at everything other than single target
ebon bramble
they have good aoe via searing nightmare, prob better than sin rogues. decentish ranged cleave
balmy condor
Interesting
ebon bramble
their aoe is actually pretty decent sustained and burst when needed. love having void form every ~70 sec lol, pretty insane.
empty crescent
are stupid questions allowed here
subtle kiln
new to sin. can I use a sword? i have pox
void pecan
Pokers only
subtle kiln
well that’s dumb
doomblade on shoulders is bis? i went vers mastery shoulders
too log had that
top
void pecan
subtle kiln
what are pins?
void pecan
top right of discord
void pecan
Answer these questions you have
subtle kiln
there’s two people in top right
void pecan
subtle kiln
void pecan
Rip then.
void pecan
!howtoplayassassin
silent delta
try !pins
subtle kiln
i thought this was #assassination why am i getting #subtlety macros?
wanted to macro ambush and mutilate together
foggy beacon
I haven't played rogue since legion but, tried sin for a key and it randomly casted poisoned knife multiple times during the key, usually when a pack got pulled, anyone know why?
subtle tundra
probably some macro/random keybind
safe barn
When was the last time
this week/2 days ago at max
foggy beacon
def not keybind, I don't really missclick shit, and it happens when I'm still in stealth waiting and it just cancels my MA by casting 1
subtle tundra
there's nothing in the game that just casts poisoned knife, its something on your end that causes it
foggy beacon
ok I thought maybe it was a known thing but there must be something fucky, ty
subtle kiln
if you’re using an addon for your action bars your paging is probably set to a hidden bar that has PK bound to 1 spot
loud trench
gloves for doomblade? and haste/crit?
balmy condor
this week/2 days ago at max
Fuu updated the soulbind chart
safe barn
Fuu updated the soulbind chart
ohhhhh thanks
can i remove this combo points without any addons?
balmy condor
Don’t think so
gusty mirage
gloves for doomblade? and haste/crit?
If you have access to stone legion shoulders, gloves. Crit haste probably. If you don’t, put it in your lower ilvl item
Also if someone knows anyone at blizzard and can tell them to remove the stupid conduit energy system I’d love you forever
strange python
Lol
safe barn
do we have any "limits" on flag spent cp?
balmy condor
30 stacks is the cap
But it’s very difficult to hit that
Usually 20-25 stacks is pretty good
balmy condor
We do not
Mut snd mut gar vend flag rup shiv vanish mut env mut
Committed to memory
safe barn
how do we "maintain"?
subtle tundra
Keep them up
safe barn
i guess that in the second flag we wont need to do the rup part
so, we line everything up?
safe barn
i know that, hence my question
sick cairn
wise gull
i just got 8 pi's
life is good
but as a tradeoff one of the priests kept lifegripping me across the room
empty crescent
is it worth swapping to sin and going venth, if im outlaw and NF?
balmy condor
Depends on what you as an individual contrive as having inherent value
Our personality and past memories dictate what we value
lofty yarrow
Give this guy a medal 🏅
empty crescent
i feel more confused than when i got here
balmy condor
Perhaps I value stamps more than anything in the world
empty crescent
but maybe thats ok
balmy condor
I will play outlaw if it means stamps
However I’m not a stamp collector
And outlaw gives me feelings of regret
So I guess value to me is not touching that spec
So I ask you
What is valuable to you
empty crescent
i went sub at the beginning of the expansion, the amount of regret i have surpasses you 
balmy condor
I did too
gloomy knoll
same
empty crescent
oh god
gloomy knoll
^
empty crescent
until slg
empty crescent
P U M P
gloomy knoll
gloomy knoll
sin can pump st
empty crescent
im on farm now so we need them parses
gloomy knoll
if u wanna pump st as sin go venth
probably the only good niche rogue can fill right now
since outlaw can't really compete with other aoe specs
gloomy knoll
outlaw venth is pretty meh in aoe
and that's the only reason you play outlaw
but like i said other specs do cleave / aoe better
so if you actually want to excel at something compared to other specs all u got is sin st
empty crescent
its just when we reclear SLG im prob gonna play outlaw over sin, cause i feel like playing sin on slg is probably miserable
gloomy knoll
eh flag has some burst
empty crescent
but i was debating making the swap to venth
gloomy knoll
so it can play a roll on sheilds or prio on slg even as outlaw
but you won't be parsing as high compared to necro outlaws
pale plank
For pve which one are u guys running? Subterfuge or master assassin?
balmy condor
pale plank
Thanks I just started my rogue as an alt and different guides gave different opinions, I guess I gotta try and compare
quasi silo
how much haste is like a solid number? just starting on my assas set
balmy condor
The amount that sims highest
strange python
After opener, and maintaining all your bleeds. should i hold off using Flag until Vendetta comes off CD or just use flag off CD?
balmy condor
Just use flag
You should only sync with vendetta if you for sure know you won’t miss a cast
round helm
How accurate is this opener as a reference tool?
(Necrolord atm)
I'm looking for something similar to refer to as I haven't played the spec in years 😦
balmy condor
Icyveins is good
sacred flax
Anyone tried elaborate planning for st?
daring goblet
Ambush is not used as assa ?
balmy condor
Ambush is not used as assa ?
!mut
prisma monolithBOT
Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.
balmy condor
Anyone tried elaborate planning for st?
I mean yeah, it’s just worse, but people play it sometimes I guess
daring goblet
Thanks 😎🕵️♀️
sacred flax
I mean yeah, it’s just worse, but people play it sometimes I guess
I see the number one parse on hungering used elaborate planning
sacred flax
Is it passassin and does he have 95 power infusions
It is lol. And youre right he had 7 buffs. 4 pi's and 3 bf
Guess i'll stick to blindside
balmy condor
Yeh I’m gonna say it louder for the people in the back
STOP LOOKING AT CHINESE LOGS WITH PARSE CHEESE NONSENSE
remote holly
hi
i wanted to check is it worth going doomblades if i'm a necro assassin?
or should i stick to zodyk
balmy condor
i wanted to check is it worth going doomblades if i'm a necro assassin?
It’s higher single target at the loss of execute damage
remote holly
which would be more beneficial for sludgefist pillars? i'm assuming doomblades right?
but the 30% execute is huge too when we need to zerg his face down
balmy condor
Yes
If you’re looking for max damage on sludge, you would play either Ma or doom most likely
balmy condor
That’s probably fine
One legendary with bad stats won’t break the space time continuum and suck us into a black hole
balmy condor
It’s fine
remote holly
i'm confused between muti > snd > muti opener with MA lego, vs subterfuge
the talent and the lego don't seem to go hand in hand
i'm fine with ST
balmy condor
On sludge you would play NS
But with subterfuge you would gar mut snd
And the since it’s 4 seconds
You get that last mut back
remote holly
assuming i don't lag ><
balmy condor
That’s your problem champ
remote holly
yeah
but m+ i need to use subterfuge right? there's no way around it
i can't like go MA lego and pump hard on one target then go around rupturing
wouldn't be ideal or would that be ok?
balmy condor
NS mfd with MA is actually fairly good
iron orchid
NS mfd with MA is actually fairly good
you weirdo
i don't even know how you play that damn x)
balmy condor
Numbers don’t lie
iron orchid
Numbers don’t lie
well, i guess
remote holly
if u were me, would u ditch MA lego for zoldyck for M+?
or would u run with it
assuming u had enough ash
iron orchid
You keep cps to open with CT on a pack ?
balmy condor
I mean considering you apparently lag hard
remote holly
about 100ms
balmy condor
Zold would probably be cool
iron orchid
nvm mfd does it
balmy condor
Bingo dei
iron orchid
i'm just a lazy vigor slacker
balmy condor
Zold is just better usually
remote holly
ok
iron orchid
How do you open on fewer target @balmy condor ?
St you mfd rup opener ?
garrote mut ct
balmy condor
Garrote mfd vanish rupture
iron orchid
that's a sloppy use of the MA window ?
balmy condor
Honestly no clue man
iron orchid
I didn’t look at sims I just ooga booga
I get that x)
remote holly
quick question though, would Doomblades be useful for ST raids and also good for M+ over MA lego?
this way I can use subterfuge talent and not have it feel like a waste of 3 second crit on coming out of stealth
pale plank
Not azn released but is it me or transmog are not costing anything right now
My bad I just saw we have a general chat now
misty holly
its just when we reclear SLG im prob gonna play outlaw over sin, cause i feel li...
Why do people think this? Isn't SLG primarily a 2 target cleave fight? That is a sin specialty.
subtle tundra
on mythic difficulty there are way more adds
misty holly
why reply if you dont even know the fight
I do know the fight, I just don't do mythic
didnt realize it was completely different
subtle tundra
well then you dont know the fight
hallow peak
Imagine if there was some way to find out the answer to a question you're not sure of
Thatd be nuts :)
empty crescent
subtle tundra
most of the times the last bosses are completely different
subtle tundra
that one assassin
thing is, most rogues swap to outlaw even if they are assa mains on SLG so there arent many assa logs
balmy condor
that one assassin
Boss Damage
ebon bramble
pretty much
but if boss damage is important, pure single target, why not bring an spriest, they do more 🤔
subtle tundra
im assa main but i swap cause im first backup on soaks so i have a lot of movement to do which requires grappling hook
pale plank
What’s the best covenant right now for assassin?
balmy condor
What’s the best covenant right now for assassin?
You know that one song
pale plank
Read lots of guides and they say is venthyr
balmy condor
That goes R-E-S-P-E-C-T
balmy condor
So if you remove the first 3 letters
And then change the E to an I
And the C to and N
sweet zealot
I wanna practice some sin rogue, but need a leggo
sweet zealot
what is a good first time leggo?
balmy condor
hallow peak
No I don't believe it
balmy condor
I have to start getting creative or I’ll drive myself crazy
sweet zealot
lol
balmy condor
what is a good first time leggo?
Zold, ma, doomblade
hallow peak
I have to start getting creative or I’ll drive myself crazy
Ur doing a great job bud, we appreciate it
balmy condor
ebon bramble
damn. spriest still beating sin rogues in single target. they need to be nerfed so we #1 single target 🤣
subtle tundra
i think the gap will get closer
ebon bramble
sub buffed? you mean nerfed
balmy condor
If not single target
subtle tundra
cause many spriests were already playing and many rogues just started playing
ebon bramble
sub is dead
balmy condor
I honestly feel so bad for my homies in blue
ebon bramble
might as well kill it
balmy condor
Every patch they have to come back to me
Like I’m some fucking thanos
Who snapped their spec away
hallow peak
Member that one time with Zul
hallow peak
That was cool
ebon bramble
promptly nerfed to the ground
sweet zealot
they should have gone 4 ur head @balmy condor
balmy condor
they should have gone 4 ur head <@!167090536602140682>
True, I welcome it
solar hare
Every patch they have to come back to me
Like you dont babysit #subtlety too
balmy condor
I mean, not much to babysit there
solar hare
balmy condor
It’s like 5 messages a day, 2 of which are pvp
And 3 of which are “what spec do I play since sub is dead”
solar hare
Lmaooo
fossil slate
i think the gap will get closer
If nothing changes SPriest is likely to continue to become an absolutely obscene source of ST damage, like disgustingly so
ebon bramble
they do scale better
lament mica
s-word
ebon bramble
s c a l e
lament mica
that is typically true though
ebon bramble
fear the spriest
lament mica
obviously anything can change at any given moment due to % aura buffs, but ya
fossil slate
s-word <:peepochrist:585733962274570253>
Its fine it wasn't about Sin 👀
ebon bramble
sin scaling is atrocious. shit mastery ugh
balmy condor
Scaling is nonsense in general
ebon bramble
because they introduce borrowed powers anyways
balmy condor
Imagine relying on 4 patches of gear to make a spec good rather the borrowed power doing 45% of your damage
subtle tundra
If nothing changes SPriest is likely to continue to become an absolutely obscene...
i didnt mean for next tiers
solar hare
Wait for double lege 
sweet zealot
Imagine relying on 4 patches of gear to make a spec good rather the borrowed pow...
now that u mention it, didnt blizz talk about smth called 'domination gear' for 9.1 or am I imagining things?
ebon bramble
what that
sweet zealot
dont know
ebon bramble
i knw tier sets wont be in 9.1
balmy condor
now that u mention it, didnt blizz talk about smth called 'domination gear' for ...
It’s like raid gear has stuff on it
And that’s all we know
ebon bramble
ooooo
sweet zealot
so its tier sets kind of?
subtle tundra
we know nothing of it
ebon bramble
ya
ebon bramble
9.1 in ptr when?
subtle tundra
we will probably get ptr soon-ish
ebon bramble
prob sept for 9.1 release
sweet zealot
would be nice with some class specific stuff tho
ebon bramble
sin nerf soon
safe canyon
Probably. Gotta force people to play le ebin pirate some how
ebon bramble
lol
safe canyon
No le ebin pirate so no buffs
sweet zealot
but I think blizz has to put smth on ptr soon
its been 1 month since blizzcon
and they did say it would come out soon after 9.0.5
arctic axle
Does it matter what slot i craft doom blade on? Wowhead says shoulders but my sim is higher on hands.
Is there anything good in castle nath or somethingthat would make me want to go shoulders over hands?
ebon bramble
and they did say it would come out soon after 9.0.5
soon
soon could mean in 3 months
blizz is a small indie company after all
lilac sparrow
Any variation for non-blood opener?
subtle tundra
blood of the enemy?
lilac sparrow
bloodlust
subtle tundra
oh lol
wheat wave
What do I want my haste % to be around??
wheat wave
if you don't understand my question just ask
shy dust
there is no percent to be around
thorn turtle
indigo mulch
Also depends on what covenant you chose etc. D: Simming is the best thing you could do.
DoS really refuse to drop any form of leather shoulders for me 😦
I've gotten 6 quantum devices.
No shoulders
😢
sleek sparrow
Does it matter what slot i craft doom blade on? Wowhead says shoulders but my si...
you'd ideally wanna craft doomblade on hands if you're raiding M since you can get 233 shoulders but no 233 hands from raid
so if gloves sim better for you atm all the better
left abyss
Hey guys, if i sim a soulbind from another cov does the sim take into account the other covanent ability ?
lilac sparrow
!rotation
left abyss
Im necro atm just wanna see how much of a sim dps increase it is as ven
lilac sparrow
subtle tundra
Hey guys, if i sim a soulbind from another cov does the sim take into account th...
yes
left abyss
ty
wary pawn
any pirate fellow that plays sin in raid can tell me if its worth to change covs and all for the sin experience?
shy dust
That’s
Like
Such a hard question to answer
Do you value the versatility of necro as a rogue
With it being very strong for m+ as outlaw and good for cleave/ extended aoe
limber lion
Yeh it's very much your own preference and what you value more
shy dust
Or do you prefer raid orientated content and want to be a premier st spec which assa is and even more so as venthyr
wary pawn
i kinda like outlaw more for the overall verstaility just wondering if sin rly pull ahead in raid way more than outlaw
sand aurora
doomblade should be crafted on hands right?
jagged bobcat
Infinitely Divisible 220 vs Dreadfire 220 , Infin is only .02% lower but does Bloodmallet consider the Shiv nature damage taken increase?
limber lion
Yeh, just play Assa in raid but stay whatever covenant you are currently as Outlaw
shy dust
Infinitely Divisible 220 vs Dreadfire 220 , Infin is only .02% lower but does Bl...
Doesn’t work like that
Shiv is white listed
limber lion
Infinitely Divisible 220 vs Dreadfire 220 , Infin is only .02% lower but does Bl...
No, Shiv does not affect trinkets
shy dust
For only rogue abilities
shy dust
Nah
limber lion
And neither does anything else in the kit