It's not that bad but herbs is better because there's no positional requirement
#assassination
stoic needle
limber lion
Korayn and MA is fine to use together I though
Not the best combo. You already get 100% crit from MA. You're pretty much wasting 4s of FS
stoic needle
Imagine if we had a chaos bolt type passive where crit over 100% added to the damage
limber lion
Imagine the Envenom's
young flume
nut
storm forum
not exactly sin related, but do macros read bottom up or top down?
limber lion
not exactly sin related, but do macros read bottom up or top down?
top down
storm forum
thanks
knotty sparrow
Not the best combo. You already get 100% crit from MA. You're pretty much wastin...
Yeah but the korayn base proc still synergizes well
Bonus dmg on enemies above x HP
FS also can be cheesed like the other guy said
prisma perch
ya
knotty sparrow
Lol
prisma perch
you get the nature dmg buff
ruby birch
stoic needle
It was telling me to shiv at max CP is that right?
There's nothing wrong with that
limber lion
imagine caring about wipe parses 
knotty sparrow
Huh go figure
limber lion
Which boss is that?
limber lion
Ouch
ruby birch
someone accidentally clicked a container
limber lion
How do you accidentally click that?
thorny pond
Sounds like they weren't parsing 100
limber lion
Yeh, they griefed you on purpose
thorny pond
You don't wanna be in a group that wipes to inerva so you wipe it as an excuse to gquit
stoic needle
Huh go figure
5cp envenoms with shiv > losing 1cp casting shiv at 5cp
knotty sparrow
Anyone ever do a sludge fist with another rogue and you get chains together with them late into the fight and you’re higher on the meter and somehow he accidentally kills me?
ruby birch
how tf do you have two rogues in a group
stoic needle
The whole 'two rogues in a group' thing doesn't really work anymore when sin pumps as hard as it does now
ebon bramble
is nadjia not goot for AOE/M+?
limber lion
is nadjia not goot for AOE/M+?
It's good.
tacit forum
Anyone ever do a sludge fist with another rogue and you get chains together with...
When it’s not a Paladin riding their horses as no tmw lol
Ngl we had this dick DH going for parses and I did shadowstep when chained to him
Just to see the same whispering me later on calling me idiot
strange python
im a vampire boi now 😮
what am I missing to get closer to 7k? I don't want to swap to venthyr until I can sim higher than niya https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ur3qf9NNXZycB92JoKXTC6
void pecan
I gotta get max rank with NF before I switch
strange python
*sims 130 higher than niya* "i dont want to swap til i can sim higher than niya"
it's not optimized for niya in that sim
jsut trying to get as high as i can with nadja
drifting cloud
well 190 legos is over 100 dps lost
brittle pawn
your haste is pretty low
drifting cloud
and im not sure how big the variance in sim is with double on use at 90s cd when the sim duration is 4-6min
and 233 wep is what another 60-70 most likely and youre getting pretty close to 7
strange python
Yea. Ty!
brittle pawn
haste and crit are both low
vers is super high
not that vers is bad, the others are just slightly better
drifting cloud
my dude all his gear is 226
brittle pawn
and
drifting cloud
swapping secondaries isnt gonna net him more than 50 dps
and its not like theres gear that exists outside of vault rng
drifting cloud
yeah probably gains 20 dps at most
azure carbon
Crimson Tempest or Poison Bomb on Huntsman?
brittle pawn
there's some kind of log site that shows what people take somewhere
drifting cloud
I mean inerva ring is probably the only item at same ilvl not behind rng for his gear
brittle pawn
Critical Strike 1.76
Haste 1.74
Versatility 1.37
Mastery 1.37
his current stat weights
azure carbon
there's some kind of log site that shows what people take somewhere
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/26#boss=2418&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination
92% are taking Poison Bomb, but that doesn't mean its right.
8% of people taking CT could be right, or they could be hipsters. Hard to say.
glacial quarry
i see a lot of people running EP at the top, as well as BS, is there a big variance?
loud light
what do you define as "a lot" of people
glacial quarry
well, a few, amongst the top logs for ST fights
brittle pawn
you could like, sim it 
stoic needle
hes gonna get a lot more than 50 dps from swapping secondaries lmao
drifting cloud
no he wont because he cant get those items outside of vault
stoic needle
what does the source of the gear have to do with anything
drifting cloud
I dunno why do you think theres no bis list here
because half of it is from last 2 on mythic or vault rng
stoic needle
that's not why there's no bis list here
you know that secondaries are the difference between his gear and the 7.3k simming bis set right
drifting cloud
lol
stoic needle
they're both full 226
loud light
if you can't target the gear what's even the point in caring though
it's just open vault, see what you got
sim it
equip better things
drifting cloud
exactly, and unless youre quite a few weeks if not months into farm most LCs arent gonna award you gear thats giving you 10 dps for swapping secondaries because alot of the time there will be other people that still need it
stoic needle
@strange python what does your 'optimized for niya' set sim at
brittle pawn
he's CE. he's quite a few weeks into farm.
drifting cloud
he has 2 sire kills
drifting cloud
damn you sure maybe you should double check
halcyon zealot
pretty unique question here: On mythic sludge, if im vendetta'ing pull, 2, 4, and using memory of past sins + Phial for trinks, is it always better to pair sins with vendetta n vanish, or should i use it 1,3,wall slam so i have more dps each pillar
currently im lining with vend/vanish
drifting cloud
you know people reroll after tiers and guilds have more than 20 people right?
strange python
<@456226577798135808> what does your 'optimized for niya' set sim at
I'll get back to you after raid
shy dust
glacial quarry
i still can't decide which to craft first out of doomblade and zoldyck 
the sims make it seem like doomblade is still incredibly competitive and close in dungeon slice, however accurate that is a representation in m+, which makes me think doomblade, but dungeon slice always seems like a misleading sim for m+
glacial quarry
i largely pug/run with guildies who don't do any more than 2 packs per, maybe 3 or 4 in places like ardenweald, but they kinda just copy/paste dratnos routes
stoic needle
a large portion of dungeon slice is ST which is why doomblade sims so well. I'd run it in spires, plaguefall, SD, and TOP but i can't recommend it for the others
at least not without testing it first
i wouldn't recommend it for pugs because you can't guarantee that the pugs will carry their weight in aoe to make up for you doing less aoe damage
its solid for coordinated groups though
glacial quarry
makes sense, i guess ultimately zoldyck is gonna look a lot nicer on the overall meters too alongside the utility of execute phase
sleek pecan
is ct increasing envenom damage with doomblade legendary?
stoic needle
yes
sleek pecan
ty
proper garnet
The correct legendary for dungeon slice is Outlaw
sleek pecan
outlaw is the worst specc ingame though
proper garnet
except nah
burnt star
pretty unique question here: On mythic sludge, if im vendetta'ing pull, 2, 4, an...
It doesnt mather that u pair memory of past sin with your cd. The trinket gains no value from any of your talent/cd.
U need to pair your memory with your raid. If the other people use it on 1/3/5. Then u need to do that too
Past sin gains value by how much people use it at the same time. Nothing else
(Ok maybe from ghostly strike. That would need to be verified if they changed that at 9.0.5. Dont quote me on that)
drifting cloud
or you know since he wrote sludge ... the 100% dmg taken debuff
either way its a wash unless you assume the boss and you will always live 10s after hitting the wall which you probably shouldnt
halcyon zealot
yeah i know it doesnt amp, i just didnt know if it was worth spreading out some CDs for each pillar, since atm my pillar 1 and 3 feel super lackluster
basically only going in with a shiv
but ill prob keep it pull/2/4
burnt star
it doesnt matther that u feel lackluster on pillar 1-3.. u are gonna get 3 use of it no matther what. dont use it whenever u feeel. if u want to make it count. use it at the same time as other people in your raid..
unless ur alone to have it
wich is sad then
halcyon zealot
yeah, u bascially just repeated what u said before lol, i get u
but ya only 1 other person usess it
halcyon zealot
yeah idk why more people dont use it i know we have like 5 or 6 people with it
everyone has a hard on for SLG trinket
brittle pawn
18k sludge wipe 
imagine bringing a buff so you get taken in a melee slot even though you do 4500dps
sullen pagoda
id rather have class with buff do less cuz they do bring buff than do same as rogue for example that brings nothing
errant delta
So we gunna be running zold and doom when we get 2 legos yer?
brittle pawn
who the fuck knows whats going to be different by then 
errant delta
I mean it sounds spicy atm
brittle pawn
not really because there would be better combos based on situation
sly turtle
is assas the best spec rn now for raids?
tacit forum
tacit forum
Outlaw is good to be set aside
forest wing
does cloak works for ghosts on xy mox? never tried lul
tacit forum
Jk lol... yes m+
sly turtle
yeah I'm sick of playing outlaw,
drifting cloud
does cloak works for ghosts on xy mox? never tried lul
yes
tacit forum
Or cleave fights
forest wing
cool, ty
dawn ivy
yo can i evasion the arrows on huntsman?
sly turtle
so Im thinking about going assas
drifting cloud
just make sure if runs into you before cloak expires
tacit forum
Yo question to yall
Do you cloak on hungering to cheese dps when everyone is running from aoe or you do cloak to help your raid and clean the balls
tacit forum
I vote to cloak and dps and let the specs with utility to deal with the balls lol
tacit forum
It sure is
brittle pawn
its a 6 second channel, cloak is 5 seconds
tacit forum
I’ve done it multiple times
brittle pawn
5
sly turtle
I thought it was like a 10 seconds channel.
brittle pawn
who cares if you get hit by 1s
nocturne hawk
consume
sly turtle
ow yes.
brittle pawn
its like 4s cast then 6s channel
drifting cloud
yeah
glacial quarry
can you feint one hit and cloak the rest for that then?
nocturne hawk
Yee
glacial quarry
i guess in a worst case scenario you can go out and cloak&step back in
brittle pawn
if the 1 hit kills you, thats what cheat death is for
misty holly
can you feint one hit and cloak the rest for that then?
The way Kripparian described how to handle these scenarios is to call out on vent that you're "lagging" just before the cast goes off, that way healers will know to keep you up while you continue to do max dps.
brittle pawn
and the seeds
lament mica
yes but usually rogues are on trap duty
brittle pawn
and the suck in explosion
glacial quarry
guess i'll have to "misclick" cloak a lot
glacial quarry
i'm a human so i can do a single trap w/o cloak anyway 
nocturne hawk
Same, we have enough humans to just clear shitty traps and leave the rest alone lol
glacial quarry
truuue
clearing traps loses us dps in more ways than one
that nice tab rupture for funneling
brittle pawn
maybe 1cp
violet hemlock
limber falcon
How many stacks of flagellation du tout guys usually get up to? Feeling like I'm low on haste at 16% but simming crit better than haste still.
knotty sparrow
If I do everything perfect I can get 30 stacks but I’ve only seen that twice
I don’t think I’ve ever got more
timber gale
I’m at 24/19 rn, one valor upgrade from 20
knotty sparrow
25vers/16haste/17crit for me
limber falcon
Oh reaaaaally
timber gale
I’ve found it helps to both have Venomous Wounds going / Subt garrote + a FoK out so you’ve got a let of regen
Then I just Vendetta + Flag + Instant finisher to start the train
knotty sparrow
I’ve only gotten 30 stacks with a nice MFD setup
timber gale
I’ll also dump less than 5 CP as it’s ending
limber falcon
Oh oh oh...!! I meant all ST
timber gale
Just to get the last bits in there
limber falcon
Practicing for sludge
keen tree
I want to sim to figure out waht gear is best in m+ - can someone remind me how to set up raidbots for that? I know dungeon slice doesn't work...
timber gale
Yeah for ST it’s a little harder? I haven’t done Sludgefist on rogue but in M+ you’re usually like, lusting which I’ve found can put me over the top
proven ice
Just do 3 bosses 5 mins
timber gale
I also use sheet music while I’m setting up so I have a lot of haste going into it
proven ice
Or 4 bosses
timber gale
So depending on your trinkets it might be trickier
proven ice
Or hectic add cleave
keen tree
3 boss 5 min? ok
limber falcon
Okok yeah was wondering how you managed 30 stacks with 16 haste in ST haha
knotty sparrow
Bloodlust
limber falcon
Yeah
knotty sparrow
Flag rupture shiv mut envenom vanish mut envenom mfd envenom that’s like what 20 stacks
timber gale
Yeah I treat it like breath of sindragosa - you need a little ramp up it feels like
I also run Vigor & try to get good value from vendetta regen while still having a decent amt of energy up when pressed
knotty sparrow
Thrill seeker and/or bloodlust makes 30 stacks easier
limber falcon
With thrill seeker and vendetta I can manage 25+ but its more like 20 normally
Mk I'll try and pool better for my vanish muts
Feel like I'm losing a lot of cp from lack of energy in vanish
safe barn
uhm
my vendetta did not sync with pull/2/4 pillar
do i need to do 1/3 and no vendetta at pull?
knotty sparrow
What’s that mean
distant flint
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
safe barn
so, not even apply dots first
brittle pawn
you can't take your 7 globals or whatever leads into vendetta
safe barn
i isee
knotty sparrow
That’s a sub legendary
brittle pawn
!wrongchannel
knotty sparrow
!triuneward
brittle pawn
there might be some wiggle room, looks like second charge is 2:06
keen tree
do you guys keep different sets of gear for m+ and raid? simming for stats weights they are quite different for multiple mobs vs single target.
or.. do you just sim gear for single target and use that?
knotty sparrow
MA set for m+, doomblade set for raid???
safe barn
there might be some wiggle room, looks like second charge is 2:06
reached 2nd pillar now and i was missing 2nd vendetta
weird
did they change the time of the fight?
distant flint
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
late bolt
reached 2nd pillar now and i was missing 2nd vendetta
thats indeed weird. It always lined up for me
brittle pawn
time
drifting light
Theres no crit haste neck this season? Or am I stupid?
brittle pawn
no
drifting light
So our best shot is soa’s neck most likely?
pulsar sluice
Do we play doomblade for tyr week>?
spice spire
still probably not
depends on your comp, and the dungeon running
strong argument for your bigger boss dungeons, top/dos/mists. But it also depends on level (if you're running 20s, lolno.) and comp.
IF I'm running top and there's an aff lock, I'm hard going zoldy over doom even though it's a pretty good dungeon to argue for.
wheat parrot
Can somebody help me out here, Is there any shivs in this log ?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Rrm1xPzGHdgbBYDK#fight=12&type=casts&source=3&view=timeline
hushed sphinx
wheat parrot
-_-
tired falcon
There is
wheat parrot
Is it at 11.0 ?
drifting cloud
it got fixed literally a few days ago
wheat parrot
Ohh thats why its not showing on that log then?
drifting cloud
yeah
azure carbon
Does Internal Bleeding work with Doomblade?
strange python
So our best shot is soa’s neck most likely?
My boy
odd meteor
!ambush
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
azure carbon
DO people actually use GSE to macro ambush into Mutilate? Sin has to have some of the least buttons of all the specs in the game right now.
lilac sparrow
And it seems cast mut when have >55 energy
balmy condor
DO people actually use GSE to macro ambush into Mutilate? Sin has to have some o...
I hope not
that GSE macro just alternates between ambush/mut
so if you play like subterfuge on single target or whatever
there goes an ambush
its more work to try and play around the macro than it is to just use a second bind
jagged bobcat
is Rotation for Vigor/Deeper Stratagem the same?
balmy condor
yes
safe barn
HOW DO CHINESE ROGUES DO THAT STUFF
drifting cloud
its fine because of 2nd pillar timing imo
azure carbon
They probably trying to maximize their opener burst. We used to do wacky stuff like that too.
safe barn
dude
drifting cloud
oh didnt even notice theres no snd 
tribal marlin
link log
tribal marlin
he use slice just after sepsis
stoic needle
Cheating pretty rampant over there
no
they don't
i mean, using a rotation helper isn't cheating
knotty sparrow
Rotation bot not helper
I won’t name one because probably against the rules but they’re out there
nocturne hawk
Least they did shiv before that first envenom
stoic needle
do you have proof that chinese players are using them? 
tribal marlin
make sense if he want vanish to be ready for 2nd pillar as well
high phoenix
In council are we dropping extra bleeds on off targets for energy regeneration, or treating it like single target?
nocturne hawk
sepsis being used that early seemed sus at first, but it lines up with last pillar+lust without missing a cast
tribal marlin
boss hit 2nd pillar at 2:05 iirc so if you want to have that vanish in you gotta vanish before 10s into the fight
safe barn
but still
we do
mut>snd>mut>gar>rup>cov>shiv>vend>vnsh
thats the normal rotation right?
tribal marlin
should be yeah but without lust you probably Vend at 10s if not later
azure carbon
I think most covenants are before the Rupture.
tribal marlin
I think for assa sludge i'm doing normal rotation and just fire Vend on 2nd or 3rd global
smth like this
brittle pawn
youre not gonna flag on 0cp
safe barn
im not venthyr
ebon bramble
!opening
stoic needle
yeah flag before rupture
brittle pawn
flag is venth
stoic needle
ya flag is crap!
don't lie to yourself
chrome eagle
NF is still almost as good as venth in m+ right
ebon bramble
don't lie to yourself
why flag, when you can bone?
stoic needle
yes almost as good is a good way to put it
stoic needle
why flag, when you can bone?
ebon bramble
i think all covenants are pretty equal in m+, necro slight edge
midnight sierra
has anyone ran theotar in m+?
stoic needle
i have
brittle pawn
i just tried theotar
stoic needle
depends. not particularly for this week because its tyrannical
chrome eagle
Jist CBF swapping and farming the renown again 
stoic needle
but it's pretty solid
midnight sierra
gonna do a 18 sang soon considering trying it
brittle pawn
idk if i just played way better, but my dps was much higher than the other pf ive done this week
stoic needle
theotar fucking slaps
stoic needle
probably a combination of both
midnight sierra
i just switched to venth on friday nad im 37 renown now lol catchup too easy
brittle pawn
still only ~6 dung so far as sin, so prob
midnight sierra
also could be ur tank pulls too
stoic needle
i find it not hard at all to stay within the shade during pulls
brittle pawn
pretty much same pulls every run of pf
stoic needle
even with tanks not kiting through it
stoic needle
or when you press snd 
midnight sierra
should only press that like 5 or 6 times tho
brittle pawn
maybe i can get the mastery buff for first global if i ss and instacast
midnight sierra
lashing + lethal?
stoic needle
tbh
i simmed it today and its pretty even between double potency and wasteland propriety
id say wasteland propriety is better for tyrannical
double potency with poison katar(!) for big pull dungeons
midnight sierra
well it's techincalyl better then because you're buffing ur teammates
midnight sierra
my comp isn't crazy insane pulls tho it's lock spriest me
brittle pawn
no buff gonna help a fire mage pulling 4k 
weary glen
ayy gotta ditch the blue smurfs and really can't decide necro or ven 
stoic needle
do you wanna be a single target pumper or a spread cleave god
midnight sierra
why u gotta do the man dirty and expose him whtenn his combust isn't up
stoic needle
thats overall man
weary glen
true, no static but a small pool of friends is the usual
midnight sierra
i'd say that if ur only doing m+ and not really raiding then necro
brittle pawn
i dont like necro at all
midnight sierra
ur gold text too so u may play outlaw too
brittle pawn
dont want extra rotation button
midnight sierra
necro is bis 2+ targets for outlaw
i like necro but im a meta slave unfortunately
winged storm
u guys think its worth to build zoldyck for m+ or just go with MA?
weary glen
lol the loop of bandwagoon flavour of the month done me dirty
midnight sierra
i use zoldyck only
weary glen
I started with outlaw when i first played, then swapped to assass and sticked to it for a long while
went sub at SL launch and i hadn't have even touched it before
winged storm
yea feel like MA is kinda meh with assa, because you garrote 3x anyways in m+ no?
brittle pawn
im not a fan of it
midnight sierra
i was sub for a long time then i switched ass like three weeks ago
weary glen
I performed the best as assa though.
brittle pawn
but i dont have zoldyck either, so ive just been using doom
midnight sierra
yea feel like MA is kinda meh with assa, because you garrote 3x anyways in m+ no...
yeah exactly you arne't utilizing it as much u could maybe with vanish but u rreally should be dotting up
safe barn
but i dont have zoldyck either, so ive just been using doom
which lvl
midnight sierra
if ur raid focused doom if not then zold
brittle pawn
were just about to start slg prog
want zold for denathrius, but sub 30% won't be for a while
midnight sierra
p sure doom is still better even during execute window
brittle pawn
hm
drifting cloud
lol
strange python
wrong
ebon bramble
i wish haste lowered the cooldown of flagellation
brittle pawn
oh, just 15s. dont care to push.
brittle pawn
they use same gear minus weapons
i have 226/220 outlaw weapons, and 220/207 sin weapons
do way better on sin
safe barn
i have 226/220 on outlaw and 220/220 on sin
but idk i feel like im doing way more dps with law
azure carbon
Eh, depends what you're trying to do. IMO sin is better for a lot of things right now.
Sin is strong.
Just dont play Sub unless you're progressing SunKing. Its ass right now.
azure carbon
When all you do is ST, its bad.
brittle pawn
so outlaw is top 50% on all ST fights because bad?
azure carbon
Sub would need like 10-15% buff @ ST to be viable right now.
drifting cloud
lmao
brittle pawn
weird takes
drifting cloud
just make it an even 20%
winged storm
u guys prefer master poisener or EP for m+?
brittle pawn
im pretty sure no more than 0 people use master poisoner
winged storm
just looked at top assa guys at raiderio, some people atleast have the talent chosen 😄
brittle pawn
that means they logged out with that
winged storm
yea i know
brittle pawn
not that they used it on the run
its a pvp talent
yea he has nightstalker and elusiveness
he was pvping
radiant fossil
I agree with @brittle pawn Outlaw can be nuts on st. Our rogue plays outlaw for Dena MM and he is pumping Dena like crazy. Often 1st on Dena. We didnt see that many p3 but he will be on top for sure with lock.
fallow otter
Where your ww at
subtle kiln
just looked at top assa guys at raiderio, some people atleast have the talent ch...
you can get the actual talents used in the runs on 15+ keys from subcreation
queen galleon
I agree with <@!150089764555587585> Outlaw can be nuts on st. Our rogue plays o...
Do you consider dena ST ? 
fallow otter
Do you consider dena ST ? <:ytho:439138773591130113>
Do you not?
radiant fossil
@queen galleon actually yes. There iare treshold you have to break in order to kill the boss. Dps on adds phase 1 is just optionnal. Everyone can aoe or cleave. For phase 2, you need to obliterate big adds and that's pure st. Then you only focus Dena and cleave adds. For the end on phase 3, its just pure st. So yeah i value st on Dena more than aoe or cleave.
queen galleon
I mean, with the whole sword up shared hp + adds
I feel it's like 40 50% cleave so
Benefit for outlaw damage input and sin dot and energy regen
radiant fossil
p3 is where the fight matter. And its only st.
wide prism
just did a mort'regar layer 8 and didnt get my doomblade leggo? i assumed that it dropped layer 3+
gray fjord
Not always guaranteed, from what I've heard, @wide prism
fallow otter
You're both right it's not cut and dry, you also need to cleave remornia and adds so that you can phase at low boss hp
radiant fossil
Little adds arent the issue in this fight. They get cleave no matter what and die fast.
wide prism
can i re-run for another chance or am i fucked till it comes again?
queen galleon
I don't say he is wrong tbh
balmy condor
can i re-run for another chance or am i fucked till it comes again?
Rerunning is all good
wide prism
ty ty ❤️
queen galleon
Some people can view fight differently
balmy condor
Hi zera
queen galleon
And every guild do not run a fight with the same thematic for rogue dps ahah
balmy condor
gray fjord
<:MenheraWave:551897147574845442>
Hi bbz. ^^
radiant fossil
Rogue arent the 1st class you want to bring for Dena 😦
queen galleon
Just ST sounded fun to me when you can cleave remoria for like 50% of the fight
wide prism
btw doomblade works with SBS, correct? So it's pretty much a perma 5% dmg boost for envenom?
radiant fossil
Because every class can cleave, but not all class can do strong st
gray fjord
btw doomblade works with SBS, correct? So it's pretty much a perma 5% dmg boost ...
Correct, SBS bleed increases it, but the % gains are only specific to the target you've bleeded and are hitting with Envenom
queen galleon
Top tier Chinese guild stacked outlaw If I remember correctly
radiant fossil
Meh, chinese guild are running strange comp. idk
And i said outlaw have really strong st
queen galleon
They do really like outlaw there
radiant fossil
so im not surprised
queen galleon
Outlaw st kinda depends on rng, in my opinions
radiant fossil
I dont play that spec myself, but our rogue is very ok on that fight
fallow otter
At this point of the tier you can bring whatever you want
It's not as bad as nzoth was but you still need certain classes so this isn't true, but there are some plain dps spots that can be anything obv
queen galleon
Yea sure I'm not saying that's false
fallow otter
The real problem outlaw has on this fight is they can't be used to burst any adds
Can't be relied on
radiant fossil
Feels bad to not be a moonkin or a lock
queen galleon
Meh I like my high apm class
fallow otter
Duskhollow being burst down at 4min,you can't say outlaw blow your cds
But if you have those situations offered by other classes then outlaw is just fine imo
sinful fable
Went assa + venthyr for tonights raid and man is it obvious my heart belongs to outlaw I'm afraid 😦
assa is really cool and probably really good, but I just cant get into the dot gameplay. I really thought I could but I cant
prisma crescent
Rogue players either love it or hate it
peak smelt
I like that it does considerably more damage than outlaw. And it’s a change in gameplay which is welcome in a tier over for months
prisma crescent
I personally play both depending on the content
sinful fable
so I'm swapping back to outlaw, I don't play in a cutthroat guild that would req me to do the extra ST dmg on bosses (currently 6/10 mythic) but I do play alot of m+ (1650 score atm) and I refuse to play assa in m+ :/
and also, I've basicly been playing outlaw for 1.5 years straight now, like 5 hours a day, so that experience and muscle memory just doesnt translate into assa. would take me months to get comfortable to the same level (and thus the dps increase)
prisma crescent
Play outlaw then both specs are good
tranquil robin
is there any info on how recuperator conduit works with new snd?
odd nebula
!opener
strange python
I'm pretty sure its just a HOT along as its up
The healing tick will always be based on ur max hp
velvet nacelle
oh my god i'm so bad at arenas on assassination haha
i'm used to having more burst or more cc
assassination just needs to be so specifically set up for a go it feels like
and even then if they know i have vendetta up they're gonna sit on their defensives/counters
i just gotta learn how to play better outside of those cds
balmy condor
is there any info on how recuperator conduit works with new snd?
Pins. Recup works the same way it did in 9.0.2, you have slice, you heal
viral kite
any of u run sin in keys?
velvet nacelle
yes, it's fantastic
not as much total output as outlaw but way more fun after 3 expansions of outlaw in keys
and probably not that much behind either
viral kite
how so
velvet nacelle
i'm not amazing at outlaw so i only hit like 5.5-6k in outlaw
i'm getting 5-5.2k average right now on 15s
but i'm also not playing assassination great so i can probably get some of it back
strange python
Alright boys im sure you have been asked this a fucking thousand times but I just got in this discord and have a Sin rogue. What is the best covenant for raid?
velvet nacelle
read the pins
i dont' mean that with snark
but there's a ton of useful info in the pins
velvet nacelle
and if it's updated, it'll be there
strange python
Ill check it out again i was looking for single target
velvet nacelle
covenants are generally close enough youc an play your favorite
unless your favorite is kyrian
venthyr is generallyr egarded as best single target, necrolord cleave
strange python
Ty!!
strange python
happy to be back to playing sin holy fuck
been playing a prot warrior for too long
velvet nacelle
so i wouldn't think about it too much if you like one more than the other
sin is probably my favorite pve spec
strange python
same
velvet nacelle
i'm strugglign hard in arenas right now
usually do these as sub but trying sin for a night
if i can get an uninterrupted vendetta on people they just fall over, but everyone knows that so i'll never get the whole setup/vendetta
balmy condor
I did read the pins but i dont reall understand them
Sorry to hear that, if I can explain anything to you, please let me know
strange python
thanks whispyr
limpid blaze
Saw some cute stuff I got tagged in, ty guys 
velvet nacelle
no you're cute
willow isle
Necro covenant ability is so fun to use. Any tips when to place that in st/aoe rotation? Or tip in general?
hazy crater
The hell is with that list? Thought we would of been higher
sin is good on a single target, raid is much more than that
brittle pawn
Normalized scores 
reef axle
Hmm
nocturne hawk
The hell is with that list? Thought we would of been higher
boss dam
limpid blaze
Do you guys ever reckon it’s worth dropping CT in m+ assa? I’ve been trying to play all diff types of talents cause I can’t get over how not worth ct is in st
Or is worth using on single below 30% with zoldyck?
brittle pawn
It kinda pumps on trash, but I agree pretty feelsbad in st
prisma crescent
You use CT on ST
balmy condor
Do you guys ever reckon it’s worth dropping CT in m+ assa? I’ve been trying to p...
CT is honestly giga
brittle pawn
I thinks it's been like 13% of my overall or so
brittle pawn
Probably not even using it optimally
balmy condor
There’s some jank you can do with HB/PB
safe barn
i crafted my doomblade with hast/vers
reef axle
I like that list better
limpid blaze
Feels clunky sometimes but the more I play with it, it does feel easier to manage
balmy condor
But generally not really
safe barn
did i do a mistake?
balmy condor
did i do a mistake?
No
nocturne hawk
Even in ST I believe CT is prio over Rupt
limpid blaze
Really?
balmy condor
Even in ST I believe CT is prio over Rupt
No
limpid blaze
Riot gives energy and ct doesn’t unless I’m mistaken
limpid blaze
Rupt*
balmy condor
It’s prio over envenom
brittle pawn
I think it'll feel even worse not having ct on trash than it feel to have it on st
nocturne hawk
ok
balmy condor
so hast/vers is the way to go instead of hast/crit right?
They’re both fine
reef axle
i crafted my doomblade with hast/vers
I did the same, I kinda wannna recraft it to crit haste just for my ocd 😂, but it’s like 10 dps difference....
strange python
velvet nacelle
CT is more damage per CP than envenom but i generaly try to just keep the dot up the same as other dots
balmy condor
You cast CT in single target, out of shiv, to maintain
limpid blaze
Ok so CT on single outside of shiv but envenom to spend in shiv window?
balmy condor
Yes
balmy condor
Also would envenom if CT/Rup doesn’t need refreshing obviously
limpid blaze
Any difference below 30%?
balmy condor
Nope
velvet nacelle
it's an impressive amount of damage too
limpid blaze
Yeh ofc
safe barn
i thought ass was hast>vers>crit instead of crt>vers
limpid blaze
Just maintain as any other dot then and dump excess into envenom outside of shiv?
balmy condor
Just maintain as any other dot then and dump excess into envenom outside of shiv...
Exactly
limpid blaze
Perfect, ty ty
balmy condor
Pleasure
limpid blaze
So elaborate, subterfuge and CT cookie cutter in m+?
balmy condor
we only do envenom outside of shiv?
We’re talking about CT usage in m+
brittle pawn
i thought ass was hast>vers>crit instead of crt>vers
Haste>vers=crit
balmy condor
So elaborate, subterfuge and CT cookie cutter in m+?
Exactly
prisma crescent
i thought ass was hast>vers>crit instead of crt>vers
Sim yourself ofc, but for me personally its Crit > Haste = Vers
gray bobcat
What is the legendary of choice for assassination?
balmy condor
Crit also seems better than vers for venthyr for the extra cp
brittle pawn
Crit and haste sim much better than vers for me
balmy condor
What is the legendary of choice for assassination?
Doomblade or zold depending on what you do
limpid blaze
What about 3rd row? I feel like vigor is wasted when you get ruptures going and MFD smooths out the early part of the pull when you don’t have the energy to spam fok
balmy condor
What about 3rd row? I feel like vigor is wasted when you get ruptures going and ...
Vigor usually is better for the start of the pull
And single target is better
brittle pawn
I hate mfd so I take vigor in m+ to be able to get all my garrotes in
limpid blaze
And MFD in flag feels nice but
balmy condor
But mfd is usually higher damage, albeit not a lot
distant sail
What lego for Raid? Doomblade?
limpid blaze
Is there any nuance on conduits for m+ then? Lash and fok one with theotar? Or lethal poisons?
balmy condor
What lego for Raid? Doomblade?
Yep
limpid blaze
Yes speshle
distant sail
Tyty!
balmy condor
Is there any nuance on conduits for m+ then? Lash and fok one with theotar? Or l...
Usually lash + either lp/wps/katar
Katar has been doing quite good recently with changes, not sure why
Nadjia with double conduit is looking good
Theotar with wasteland as well
limpid blaze
I like Katar cause it really feels like it makes up for lacking crit on aoe
limpid blaze
Not sure I like the idea of thrill seeker in dungs if it procs at a bad time
Cheers for the help, I just saw the time
steel wagon
So I’m coming out of my rogue depression to find out assassin is kinda ok again. Is there a written guide anywhere to the changes?
Or is it literally just go venthyr put on doom blade and ball out
prisma yoke
wowhead should have a section about the 9.0.5 changes for assassination
then add the pins to it ( 
) and you should be good to go
dense hamlet
primal zinc
shadow helm
poisoned katar meeta/
obtuse ruin
feel like now that assa is pretty good for ST (raids) they wont get any buffs for aoe for a long time
still feels sadge playing outlaw over assa for M+
subtle tundra
fossil slate
placid wharf
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
shadow helm
Sage
tribal marlin
Assa have some uncapped aoe composant
winter moss
not sure if we will ever be like outlaw
definitely not
magic shale
is there a soft cap on haste or the more the merrier?
winter moss
we are assassination rogues why would we be like outlaw
tribal marlin
But it's not really bursty like Epidemic, it's more sustained multi dot aoe so it's very niche and I doubt it will be ever usefull in Raid environnement
winter moss
is there a soft cap on haste or the more the merrier?
There is no thing as a cap, but you should sim yourself for accurate results
tribal marlin
But the meta could quickly shift in favor of assassination in M+ scenario if one specific new "borrowed power" appears to significantly buff our aoe-doting
tribal marlin
is there a soft cap on haste or the more the merrier?
The only soft cap that exists is the treshold at 30% of a given stat, reducing the effectivness of this stat by 10%
So up to 30% you need 33 haste for 1% (990 haste for 30%) but above that treshold you need 37 haste for 1% (basically)=
magic shale
ty
tribal marlin
It doesn't mean that haste will be "bad" above 30%, we don't know. Maybe next tier and further we will still stack haste even past this treshold
for now if you already have 30% it means your other stats are very low and you should probably get more of vers/crit
brittle horizon
!oh
prisma monolithBOT
Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.
winter moss
at some point we are bound to exceed this threshold regardless of this DR.
craggy basin
shadowcore oil or stones when it comes to weps?
final star
Sim
winter moss
ST: SC oil could be slightly better with pf potion, sim it. personally i use stones as i use it for m+ mostly and have a fuckton of it
old summit
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
queen galleon
Pf's rng
dawn ivy
what does phial scale off of that makes it so good for sin? the fact that its nature dam?
or is it hasted in some way
fallow otter
Scales off being good as a base item
frail fossil
in 2 target cleave, when u pop vendetta on one target, u dont refresh dots on the other non vendetta target or ?
shadow helm
thrillseeker sucks
arctic cloud
morning to the real rogues i.e assa
fallow otter
morning to the real rogues i.e assa
Blue name alert, poser
gentle gyro
failed the purity test
fallow otter
Reckon he went back to sub channel? "guys! I was spotted!"
gentle gyro
sent to the gulag
sinful island
never seen 3/4 of you there, when it was 9.0 
fallow otter
Lol
frail fossil
u literally asked how do u change role like 3 days ago brp
fallow otter
Exposed haha
frail fossil
mf be acting like he's a OG when he's been red name since like one week 
gentle gyro
..exposed for what? cleaning up roles?
frail fossil
anyway on 2 target cleave during vendetta, do i refresh my dots on the other target 
winter moss
is shiv up? is the vend target fully dotted?
will the second target live long enough for the bleeds to pay off in the first place?
lament mica
what does phial scale off of that makes it so good for sin? the fact that its na...
tends to sim better for classes with faster attack speeds / more weapon hits
frail fossil
will the second target live long enough for the bleeds to pay off in the first p...
i'm thinking like huntsman basically, i open with putting dots then i vendetta into shiv on target, if one of my bleeds where to fall off during vendetta do i refresh it ?
like fights where u will permanently almost have a second add with the boss
winter moss
i mean you dont really need to swap off the main target all that much
mouseover rupt and garr macro
just make sure to keep lethal up
frail fossil
yeah and also doomblade dot yeah ?
like i can weave one mut in to get the other target dotted with doomblade
outside of vend
frail fossil
yeah i just dont have it
winter moss
then id suggest playing otl all together
fallow otter
I think dot both, more energy during vend always better
lament mica
hunts is def a doomblade fight
fathom lynx
i'm thinking like huntsman basically, i open with putting dots then i vendetta i...
Good question - I've been thinking about this as well, but I can't really come to any conclusion. In my head I feel like I would prioritize the Envenom buff over Rupture, and after that apply the Rupture even if the target is Vendetta'd.
If Shiv is up I would prioritize Envenom but try to plan before so Rupture won't fall off on the second target during the Shiv window
normal mist
I don't always do keys during the week, but when I do, there is always a boosted monkey doing as much overall as the tank
dawn ivy
reminder that no one played sin last week and was told doomblade is going to be BiS
so everyone made dooomblade
iron orchid
and most people in the top 100 are reclearing, so don't need the extra execute
lament mica
are ther any guilds actually progging huntsman? lol
iron orchid
WELL
lament mica
doomblade is just more dam
winter moss
theoretically zoldyck would be the play on huntsman, nowadays the fight lasts only about 3 and a half minutes with not long enough time in execute. but the concept of the fight: one boss perma with a constant add. literally screams zoldyck
frail fossil
top 100 parses leggo usage
top outlaw parse also use dont use GS on st fight even when it's better so u need to take those with a grain of salt
hollow escarp
are ther any guilds actually progging huntsman? lol
there are guilds progressing HC Sire
frail fossil
specially the first 9.0.5 week ppl are trying out shit
lament mica
and im sure almost all of those guilds could kill huntsman
trying shit out...they are doing the most dam lol
hollow escarp
I guess
viral kite
most of you guys playing venth or necro?
dawn ivy
non believers
ornate lake
heretics!
lament mica
the one part that seems really strong is zoldyck execute while the boss is taking double dam
dawn ivy
N O N B E L I E V E R S
winter moss
imo covenants dont matter that much if you play shit in the first place
hollow escarp
it's not like you pick between convoke and the self-stun from venthyr as druid
lament mica
that ability is so bad lol
hollow escarp
imo covenants dont matter that much if you play shit in the first place
even if you play good. People will always point out how good that guy with the "worst" covenant is performing
winter moss
at the start of the xpac all rogue covenant abilities were within a few % of each other
hollow escarp
the same thing applies now
winter moss
does it tho
hollow escarp
check the pins
lament mica
kyrian is kinda poo, but if u ignore kyrian then its really even ya
good cov balance in terms of that
winter moss
i see kyrian falling off harder and harder
hollow escarp
idk, why my gear is so different but I was simming 5% more as Venthyr than current Night Fae gear. That's why I decided to swap
at 229 ilvl it's only 1% difference
lament mica
winter moss
idk, why my gear is so different but I was simming 5% more as Venthyr than curre...
back to my initial statement, remove covenant abilities, aurabuff 3% and we are at the same dmg if not a bit higher
hollow escarp
but if they don't do anything new people will complain like they did in bfa
WQs and M+ were so good in Legion but in BFA people hated them
even though they didn't really change
hardy berry
We crafting doomblade tomorrow boys?
hollow escarp
except gear swapping
hollow escarp
We crafting doomblade tomorrow boys?
winter moss
people are generally unhappy with themselves thats why they project their anger at everything
lament mica
+15 strength btw lol who is this guy!!!
dawn ivy
i still gotta wait a week
winter moss
we craftin' doomblade 2 weeks ago, ya
true
lament mica
who is this psychopath madman
dawn ivy
sadge
winter moss
who is this psychopath madman
that is a classic meme
frail fossil
<:EZ:660750273848934429>
+15 strength ?
hollow escarp
need strength for those big envenoms
lament mica
IMAGINE not having slands gathering
compact pumice
Just went straight to rank 4 Doomblade when trying out Assa
winter moss
back in the day +15 strength gave harder autoattacks
frail fossil
oh
compact pumice
Might go rank 4 Zoldyck next
winter moss
nowadays it is just a nice gimmick
hollow escarp
IMAGINE not having slands gathering
lament mica
hollow escarp
I do miss engineering
winter moss
wdym
hollow escarp
but I can't abandon those professions now
winter moss
cr is ... wonky
hollow escarp
not only that
wormhole generator
infinite glider
if you don't forget to tinker new cloaks 
lament mica
how could u forget about disabling the dastardly slimes in dos?
lofty yarrow
Why do you use enchanting ?
hollow escarp
where professions matter
hollow escarp
Why do you use enchanting ?
disenchanting and crafting enchants
lofty yarrow
Makes sense 😉
hollow escarp
I do have a lot of recipes
viral kite
can a fist wep in the offhand work or does ithave to be daggers
hollow escarp
only daggers
lilac ridge
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
winter moss
can a fist wep in the offhand work or does ithave to be daggers
!oh
prisma monolithBOT
Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.
hollow escarp
if FoK was a better builder I guess we could play around with other offhands
winter moss
back to antorus
hollow escarp
yep
winter moss
with you and your thoughts
hollow escarp
it was like corruption but cooler
cunning surge
Blizzard was trying so hard to make a system better than the Artifact weapon in BfA several times and, nothing stuck
undone lodge
guys, a noob question, when do i know the passive talent Master Assassin is proc-ing? is there any weakauras string to track it?
hollow escarp
well azerite armor did had some improvements over the netherlight crucible at least
cunning surge
I personally feel like that can be debated and differ from person to person, but I can see where you're coming from at least
hollow escarp
I don't like gold cost to change armor, or the conduit energy, but it's still a better option than being locked forever
yeah, not gonna defend azerite system
cunning surge
I mean they had their pros and cons, all of them
Azerite just had a lot more cons than pros
hollow escarp
also as sin rogues, we can't really complain that much about it 
cunning surge
All the simming...
hollow escarp
SS was good
lilac ridge
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
cunning surge
I do like how Blizzard is handling Covenants and Conduits tho, thankfully Sins don't have to change out Conduits too often so that's a bonus to not having to deal with energy
hollow escarp
it wasn't the case on Night Fae when I wanted to play both sin and outlaw
I just locked sub with Dreamweaver for pvp
oak jungle
niya burrs for sin korayn for outlaw ezlife
cunning surge
Yeah that feels like the play
Niya for Sin, Korayn for Outlaw, and Dreamweaver for Sub if you want to play all 3 specs
hollow escarp
yeah, but niya is still better for outlaw
cunning surge
T r u e
Niya's tree fucks hard
hollow escarp
and korayn for sin in m+
oak jungle
its even easier than that as venthyr, nadija double pot for outlaw and duelist for sin, huge
final star
i miss the artifact weapon
Bring back Kingsbane
hollow escarp
Bring back Kingsbane
Flagellation is basically that
final star
The interaction between Kingsbane damage and maximising poison applications during it was poggies
frail fossil
what did kingsbane do
hollow escarp
replace poisons with combopoints
frail fossil
no legion andy here
oak jungle
kingsbane is just the chad sepsis
storm onyx
Another mmorpg had class specific epic weapons which lvled through expansions by quest chains. All had unique affects and procs and a clicky special. I dont see Blizzard bind an item slot like that though
oak jungle
artefacts were a double edged sword because it was nice having a new tree and a cool ability, but historically weapon upgrades were aways the biggest dps increase so going an entire expac without that to look forward to was a bit meh
storm onyx
Basically they were perma artefact weapons
final star
artefacts were a double edged sword because it was nice having a new tree and a ...
No that was why they were good
cunning surge
Always having your BiS weapon on you for the whole Expac is, really nice
hollow escarp
uhm, I think the idea of HoA was better for that implementation
cunning surge
Now you look at No Token Andys over here in CN and it's like
hollow escarp
because nobody cares about necks
cunning surge
Fuck
final star
It was all about minmaxing the envenom buff during kingsbane
oak jungle
yeah in that sense i preferred the HoA>artefacts
doesnt fuck with tier options like legendaries on all slots
cunning surge
At least the one bonus with HoA over artifacts is the fact that you don't have to level 2-4 seperate weapons to play other specs
I will give it that much
hollow escarp
it was pretty interesting to do the Kingsbane quest line when I returned to WoW, my last interaction with WoW was the movie which had Kingsbane in it
oak jungle
yeah that was a nice touch
cunning surge
You're just going through the questline like:
hollow escarp
neah, I do like my lore
cunning surge
Yeah we definitely had a LOT more burst back then imo
hollow escarp
cunning surge
It's so weird looking back at the numbers now with this huge squish honestly
hollow escarp
I like lower numbers
hollow escarp
poison bomb 3rd damage dealer
cunning surge
Easier to manage and guage
final star
NH trinkets were so good
oak jungle
cunning surge
God PB was, SO DAMN strong back then
lost prism
good morning fellow rogues, what legendary would you recommend for casual raiding and pvp? Zoldyck or Dooblade?
oak jungle
monka
cunning surge
Convergence of Fate is probably, one of the strongest trinkets ever made
I will stand by that
hollow escarp
good morning fellow rogues, what legendary would you recommend for casual raidin...
doomblade first
especially if you also do pvp
lost prism
doomblade first
will do thanks!
final star
parsing was did PB proc
hollow escarp
cunning surge
I feel it
hollow escarp
only have my fav ones, the rest are in void storage
zoldyck bracers, MA shoulders, valera pants
final star
I remember cheesing rank 1 on demonic inquisition HC
before how to cheese it got out
cunning surge
I think I still reluctantly have Sephuz's Secret in my bank somewhere
final star
oak jungle
what was the trinket everyone farmed from MoS
final star
then they made MA for NH
dawn ivy
people complain about legendaries in legion but MAN when a good legendary hit you, it was euphoria
cunning surge
Oh looking back it looks like I, mainly used DW + Insignia???
hollow escarp
Insignia wasn't bad
lilac ridge
!bis
final star
cunning surge
Yeah I remember it being good but I just never remembered using it in Antorus, guess I was wrong
cunning surge
Holy s h i t
distant cypress
it was "feel cool" button
final star
Like doing Eye of Azshara