assassination

[tribal marlin]

fixed

[carmine fable]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[oblique flare]

rogue life, but then again, lfg brainlets

[knotty sparrow]

Just run your own keys people

[stoic needle]

See the secret is to say "can trade phial" in the note

[knotty sparrow]

So simple

[sleek sparrow]

PF dagger acquired, now i just need the phial

[barren igloo]

Anyone else noticed that Theotars "Token of Appreciation" knocks you out of stealth? Just did a m+ with him for the first time and kept going out of stealth

[stoic needle]

Yeah sure let me just pull 1000 plaguefall keys out of my ass

[knotty sparrow]

Phial overrated

[stoic needle]

You should be using wasteland propriety anyway in m+

[oblique flare]

I aim for specific gear

[stoic needle]

How is a 100 dps upgrade over any other trinket overrated

[oblique flare]

imagine pushing my own key and hoping to get a key for a dungeon i need gear from

[knotty sparrow]

I have a 226 one I’m allowed to say it’s overrated IMO

[gusty mirage]

I can't get a phial from my 19 mists

[oblique flare]

when i already have 1.4k rio and people are just dumb

[sleek sparrow]

you really arent

[stoic needle]

No you aren't

[tribal marlin]

Actually, sludgefist's one is very good for Venthyr

[sleek sparrow]

you have like the least right to say its overrated if you're using a 226 phial

[stoic needle]

You don't deserve that Phial, delete it

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/vUGB9JF.png
going for the oshosi apporoved build

[knotty sparrow]

I don’t even use it 👀🤷‍♀️

[stoic needle]

You are disgusting

[blazing arrow]

Phial overrated btw. Just sims higher than everything else at a low ilvl lmao

[knotty sparrow]

Lol

I’m trolling a bit

[stoic needle]

[blazing arrow]

Clearly

[stoic needle]

You never know these days tbh

[knotty sparrow]

But like a bunch of stuff got buffed

[stoic needle]

I've seen some wild shit in rh

[gusty mirage]

didn't phial also get buffed?

😛

[stoic needle]

Yeah Phial got buffed along with them

[blazing arrow]

And its still worse than phial

[silent tinsel]

Divisible ooze number 1

[gusty mirage]

go home

[knotty sparrow]

Is flayedwing still garbage after the buff

[stoic needle]

Oh really? How so

[blazing arrow]

I swear this channel degenerates by the day the more people realize sin is good

[tribal marlin]

lots haste = higher rppm

[gusty mirage]

my 220 flayed is simming higher for me than my 213 chain

ST at least

[stoic needle]

All non stat trinkets got buffed by the same amount so their ratio to eachother didn't change

[stoic needle]

So the ppm isn't fixed?

[tribal marlin]

My 226 sludge's is better than 220 phial

[knotty sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/sb19-filipino-boy-group-sejun-josh-stell-gif-15767877

Sin rogues with phial

[gusty mirage]

depends on the internal cd I believe

[tribal marlin]

Nah most of RPPM effects are hasted

[gusty mirage]

take that statement with a grain of saltr

[stoic needle]

Interesting

[tribal marlin]

That's why Infinite star / TD was so good for dh btw

back in nyalotha

[stoic needle]

I'd have to kill mythic sludgefist to get one at a good ilvl though

[tribal marlin]

220 phial prob better than 213 sludge tho

[knotty sparrow]

Why is chain good for venthyr

[stoic needle]

More haste means more procs I guess

What does the R in rppm stand for?

[tribal marlin]

yeah exactly, that's a good trinket to start with and if you play haste, it's even better

I think it's the 3rd best trinket for Assa

Real proc per minute I suppose

[gusty mirage]

yeah it does

[knotty sparrow]

226 skullkers and 226 phial gang checking in

[stoic needle]

Skulkers

[knotty sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/palla-deserto-desert-hot-gif-6014273

[gusty mirage]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/fiisax/rppm_explained/ this is a pretty decent explanation about how RPPM works

[sleek sparrow]

220 iqd life

[safe totem]

skulkers is ass

[shadow quiver]

I'de imagine this has been asked lol but is necro or venthyr better for sin rogue pve?

[sleek sparrow]

Pins

[tribal marlin]

yeah it's basically a sophisticate version of Shadow Technics

[silent tinsel]

Skulkers on council

Never hits target

[safe totem]

macabre shit music gang

represent

[tribal marlin]

https://i.imgur.com/KGPfDTD.png

[blazing sapphire]

is the conduit for flag what makes it good? im leveling up my rogue rn and the flag damage on single target is cheeks

[tribal marlin]

it's starting

PI corrupting our yet untouched spec 😦

[silent tinsel]

I wonder if 233 dreadfires is good

[tribal marlin]

yes

233 dread is BiS trinket

It deals a truck loaded of damage even without synergy (like SoD crit conduit or BTE) and give a good chunk of additionnal agility compare to 226 trinkets

Oh well

[silent tinsel]

Reminds me of the outlaw rankings

[tribal marlin]

https://i.imgur.com/mnJcWwl.png

[hushed sphinx]

does vendetta buff dreadfire damage or just rogue abilities?

[tribal marlin]

Rogue > Warlocks

here we go

[silent tinsel]

Rank 2 virgin with 7 pis, vs rank 1 Chad with windfury totem

[tribal marlin]

Abilities and melee only

[hushed sphinx]

F

[tribal marlin]

Note that he his also cheesing Inerva's trinket

most likely

[stoic needle]

Oh you poor thing

[gusty mirage]

Just collect the dance partners 4heads

[safe totem]

[gusty mirage]

mechanics be damned

[stoic needle]

Fiery strike? Fuck that, gotta dance

[safe totem]

I charge in front of stavros to pick up my dance partner

0 fuks given

[silent tinsel]

I hate council

[shadow helm]

tfw the fucking monk gets phial

[silent tinsel]

Dumbest mechanics

[safe totem]

SHIMMY RIGHT

[gusty mirage]

That's what I like to hear, don't let stavros bully you. You can dance if you want to, you can leave your friends behind

and if your friends don't dance, then they don't dance and they're no friends of mine

[tribal marlin]

I think imma switch necrolord

xD

[shadow helm]

you do you bro

[tribal marlin]

Then I'll get all covenant at renown 40 to start with

[gusty mirage]

400 iq play

be prepared for future tuning

[shadow helm]

get every covenant except kyrian to 40

[gusty mirage]

yeah don't torture your eyes like that

[shadow helm]

actual smoothbrains

[tribal marlin]

Thing is that, I'm not really into parsing and stuff like this, and idk

Necrolord is really better for M+

So like playing Venthyr just to get some juicy non-needed ST dps once a week is kinda wierd

[gusty mirage]

I suppose, there's always a prio kill tar on fort weeks too so

Just play toward what you enjoy more man 🙂 if you enjoy m+ content more just go for necro aint no shame in that

it's not like you're inting yourself for the few times you may raid, ya know?

[limber lion]

Miki is a CE raider, so performance at the top level is to be expected.

But

There are several outliers even among the top 100 guilds that do some wonky stuff here and there.

So it's not like everyone is forced to play the absolute best spec, talents, gear, covenant, soulbinds, legendaries etc.

[gusty mirage]

well then he'd be buffing his raid with necro, win-win 😛

[limber lion]

Usually top guilds recruit players, not the class/spec. A willingness to adapt to what's needed is in high demand in top tier guilds.

Yeah, I kinda sidetracked here but anyways. Doesn't matter that much which covenant you play, especially when they're so close in power and have their own niches.

[gusty mirage]

I'm excited to see the damage I do with the optimal talents on Tuesday. I appreciate you @limber lion thanks for pointing it out sir

[limber lion]

No worries mate, hoping to see some blasting

[thorn turtle]

what do u go for slg, zold or db?

[limber lion]

HC or Mythic? For HC, probably Doomblade with MA. For Mythic Zoldyck and Subterfuge.

[thorn turtle]

hc, i'm a casual andy

it's me whos guild disbanded after 0.1 hc sire wipe

and i pugged curve the same day, the problem was guildies

[limber lion]

I've done most of my hc kills with Zoldyck, but looking at the logs the top boys are all using Doomblade.

[shadow helm]

is pf a good dungeon for d mblade

[limber lion]

Lmao, that's a good modern Cinderella-story.

The true definition of "team was holding me back"

[thorn turtle]

me and 2nd rogue were #1 and #1 on HC sludge

both assa

proud of the spec

#2*

[thorny shore]

mfd should be best even on tyrannical weeks?

[loud mason]

is crimson tempest a must have for m+ ?

[thorn turtle]

and btw i got vial, at 190 or 187

time to grind valor

[balmy condor]

Yes

[prisma crescent]

@loud mason yes if you aren't running CT ur trolling

[gusty mirage]

congrats dood 🙂

[balmy condor]

You can run vigor if you’d like

[limber lion]

It's meh. I would probably run MA.

[thorn turtle]

it's funny how 194 vial sims only 100 dps lower than 226 NW toxin

[shadow helm]

get MA away from my face ty

[loud mason]

thanks, and wich of the top 2 rows do i run?

[prisma crescent]

Guys we key viable

[balmy condor]

Probably fine if you’re playing borer’s

[limber lion]

Now imagine the stonks when you get it to 220

[loud mason]

the lvl 15 and 25 row

[balmy condor]

Ep Subt

[shadow helm]

whats borer

[balmy condor]

The recommended talents are also in the pins

[balmy condor]

The plagueborer’s after first boss

[gentle gyro]

aight, first pf done, no loot.

[loud mason]

thanks, didnt see them there sry ^^^

[gentle gyro]

off to a good start

[thorn turtle]

u just gonna farm valor, knowing my luck i can get 226 in vault after upgrading it to 220 @limber lion

[shadow helm]

i've only gotten 2 tanks

that use borers

so i guess thats a no

[balmy condor]

That’s yikes

[gentle gyro]

they key i just ran they didn't use borers as well

[limber lion]

Yeh, I upgraded my Phial to 220 as well this week. But I'm still hoping to see that juicy 226 in the vault. I'll be happy and sad at the same time

[shadow helm]

i guess its zoldyck

[balmy condor]

Maybe that’ll change going later into the expansion

[hexed root]

what covenant/soul bind are you?

[balmy condor]

Borer’s make PF free

[gentle gyro]

they really do

[limber lion]

I had a tank that was using the borer's that keep spawning to kill everything before the tentacles

[gentle gyro]

you can essentially skip half the trashpacks

[balmy condor]

You can borer like 3 prides as well

[limber lion]

We skipped everything with Shroud

Then used Borers for all packs and prides

[loud mason]

@balmy condor do i use crimson tempest on 1 target ? or is it like 3+

[balmy condor]

Single target outside of shiv

To maintain the dot

[limber lion]

It was actually sick. Too bad 3 of our 5 players died to tentacles on the last boss

[gentle gyro]

like

how

[shadow helm]

theotar for m+??? POGS

[limber lion]

I don't know. After the nerfs to the hitboxes and timings, they're not really a bad bunch to dodge.

I can understand dying to the stupid hitbox that it used to have

But they're so slow and clear as day nowadays, not sure how you die to them.

I say that, but watch me die to them the next time I do a key

[shadow helm]

how do you use mfd in m+

for SnD?

[gentle gyro]

just cloak the tentacles

[limber lion]

You snipe low-hp mobs to get it to reset

[shadow helm]

opener DOE

[limber lion]

If you can't be bothered playing around the sniping thing, I would just run Vigor tbh.

[balmy condor]

You can skip the start, pull the stuff in front of first boss, then use a borer to spawn pride, use a borer to kill the price, kill boss, then use a borer on the trash before the tentacles, then pull the borers that spawn back and do the other trash, then borer the tentacles, skip the mini-boss, pull the borers into the 2 packs at the bottom of the stairs

[limber lion]

It feels so much better.

[balmy condor]

Borers fucking pog

[shadow helm]

true

0 borer usage no pride for bosses

must be a standard pug run

[balmy condor]

I think our route gets almost 70% from borer pulls

[gentle gyro]

actually, CAN you cloak the tentacles?

they should be a physical effect, no?

[thorn turtle]

but how juice are DB envenoms

[gusty mirage]

include no one CC'ing the big ooze

and you got PF pugs down pat

[shadow helm]

nah i do that

[balmy condor]

Idk but you can stun it while being gripped

[gentle gyro]

i mean, we can cc the big ooze

[shadow helm]

blind

[gentle gyro]

na i mean on the last boss

[gusty mirage]

what about the second one?!

[balmy condor]

Oh

[shadow helm]

burn boss before 2nd BRO

[balmy condor]

You can on last boss, yeah

[gentle gyro]

says it deals nature damage

aight

[gusty mirage]

tru

[balmy condor]

But if you aren’t cloaking the rain

That’s a fucking problem

[gentle gyro]

ye

[royal lantern]

dagger drop

me happy now

[shadow helm]

ive had my blind

[balmy condor]

2 nerfs later and the rain is still mega spooker

[shadow helm]

put phial

[royal lantern]

can finally play my old assassination again 🙂

[shadow helm]

why blind put phial stack

[gentle gyro]

you can heal through it, but the second you see your healer struggle

it's time to cloak ma boi

[gusty mirage]

cuz spaghetti coding is easier

[royal lantern]

dont cloak the first 2

[balmy condor]

Healer struggles on every cast

Tbh

[royal lantern]

you healer has a cd for those

[balmy condor]

Yeah

The first ones are CDs

[royal lantern]

after the 2nd rain, you should start looking after yourself

[balmy condor]

And then your healer is dry as fuck

[gentle gyro]

main char is a holy priest, so no I don't

[royal lantern]

pots/hs/vial, or cloak

what

espacily holy has that lel

even more now with the giga buffed dungeon hym

[shadow helm]

KYRIAN IN MY ASS CHANNEL?

[gentle gyro]

wat, no. you press sanctify, oh no the mechanic is gone

[shadow helm]

🤢

[gentle gyro]

wait

[royal lantern]

you can also just dispell 1 guy as holy

[gentle gyro]

i think we agree

[royal lantern]

cus, well, priest

[gentle gyro]

we agree it's piss easy

outside of like +24 keys

[limber lion]

PF is a tank dungeon for sure.

Don't need to have any giga-blasters, just need to have a good tank with a good route.

[worldly bridge]

is there any up to date guide ? I've checked wowhead and i'm pretty sure I shouldnt MFD / SnD prepull now that we have cttc

[gusty mirage]

Still need SnD running for cut

[balmy condor]

ravenholdt and icyveins are

can't speak for wowhead but I assume mystler updated as well

what's wrong with mfd snd prepull though

[onyx wind]

losing venthyr stacks :(

[worldly bridge]

idk it feels like mfd helps a lot to get bleeds going on everyone

[shadow helm]

snd no give energy bro

[worldly bridge]

I mean i feels bad to "waste" 5cp for snd now that we can just press envenom instead to get more time on it

[thorn turtle]

http://prntscr.com/10kp6b2

ez 1shot trink

[cold rampart]

oil or stone?

[plucky pasture]

what lego did u run for assa guys?

[limber lion]

Nice grats 😄

[cold rampart]

hand doomblade

[thorn turtle]

is it good?

[limber lion]

Doomblade for raids, Zoldyck for M+

[limber lion]

Yeah for sure, it's up there.

[thorn turtle]

better than 226 nw trinket?

[limber lion]

It sims as my best trinket in AoE situations, even with 0 partners.

[limber lion]

Gotta sim to know, can't say.

[worldly bridge]

lets say in we're in a 4 mobs pull situation. Im running subt, my opener will be emp garrote x3 / Snd / MFD / CT / gar 4th / fok / rup. This sequence feels like its a better use for MFD than what wowhead recommends

[plucky pasture]

and what about covenant ? what is good now?

[limber lion]

Yeah, MFD does do well in a situation like that for sure.

[thorn turtle]

fck

started to sim dslice

[limber lion]

MFD just requires a lot of playing around during the pull as well, which can be tricky.

It's easy to use it on the opener, but (imo) quite hard to use during packs.

At least using it optimally and sniping low hp targets can be difficult

[sour citrus]

MFD? Mader fuc..... Druid???

[limber lion]

So I just run Vigor in all dungeons and do fine.

[limber lion]

Marked for Death

[sour citrus]

Ah

[limber lion]

Venthyr is BIS in raids, Necrolord is bis in 3+ targets (and probably M+, waiting for Whispyrs new sims to know)

[cold rampart]

sharpen stone or shadow oil?

[limber lion]

Sharpening Stones, Spectral Agility potions and Feast.

[sour citrus]

Gonna miss the free ambush 🤣

[limber lion]

You can sim yourself using the Advanced Sim if you want.

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[worldly bridge]

cant find this info about CT : how many targets do i need to spam it as if it was Blackpowder from sub ?

[balmy condor]

infinite

cause you don't do that

[worldly bridge]

Let's take KT fight, there is often 5+ targets that wont live long enough for rupture to be worth applying on most of them. When is CT dmg > envenom

I'm running PB in this fight so the exemple is actually bad but it can be applied in low keys / when u playing in m+ with a mage making everything die so fast that there is no point rupturing

[subtle tundra]

but there is a point rupturing

[small fiber]

i grabbing my rogue from the closet and curious which legi to craft

i plan to do raid and m+

do i need two different onesß

like odoomblade

and the dashing

sims showing that doomblade is falling of a lot in hjectic cleave

so maybe starting with dashin scoundrel?

[shadow helm]

cast rupture regardless of combo points in 5+ targets rgith

[gusty mirage]

I run doom on shoulders, but thats cuz I had 220 shoulders + 226 hands and SLG is a far ways away for my guild if its even possible

[loud mason]

how many targets do i use crimson tempest as a finisher instead of envenom ?

[agile storm]

hey guys, is venthyr bis covenant atm for pve?

for assa

[gentle gyro]

1

no joke

[gusty mirage]

[gentle gyro]

you always use it

[loud mason]

im scrolling pretty far down

and i dont see anything in pins

@gusty mirage

[gusty mirage]

oh that was meant for sayonara

[agile storm]

ty oxi

[gusty mirage]

but CT afaik is used on 1 target is talented into, but I haven't checked if that's changed w/ the envenom pandemic fix

[gusty mirage]

I just want whispyr's work to shine

[loud mason]

thats actually insane, so we just never use envenom ?

[limber lion]

No.

[icy haven]

no you just keep the bleed up

[limber lion]

You use Envenom with Shiv

On ST

And you keep your CT up 24/7

[worldly bridge]

i've seen many differents info with CT

[limber lion]

And Envenom when all of your bleeds are up

[worldly bridge]

some say only when 2+

[limber lion]

So if you have garrote, rupture and CT up, you Envenom

Even if you don't have Shiv on the target

[limber lion]

They're wrong then.

You use CT in single target if:
-Target has Garrote
-Target has Rupture
-Target does not have Shiv
-Shiv is on cooldown
-Target does not have CT

If Shiv is not on cooldown, you press it and then use Envenom's. When the Shiv expires, you apply CT again.

[thorn turtle]

db or zold for sire tho?

i think zold

[gusty mirage]

zold

the last 30% of sire is the most important damage

[compact pumice]

When are you taking CT? It sims worse for me on ST

[limber lion]

Always in M+.

[compact pumice]

Right, I missed that part where it says 8 targets, kinda new to this

[teal kettle]

just wondering, do you sin rogues use zoldyks or MA in torghast?

[limber lion]

MA all the way.

[teal kettle]

yeah I figured, thanks

[dawn bronze]

#showtooltip Serrated Bone Spike
/cast [@mouseover,nodead][] Serrated Bone Spike
Anyone see what I'm doing wrong here? It will either mouseover or nothing..

[limber lion]

You also need to add ; Serrated Bone Spike

/cast [@mouseover,nodead] Serrated Bone Spike; Serrated Bone Spike

That should work

[oblique flare]

or do
/cast [@mouseover, harm, nodead] Serrated Bone Spike
/cast Serrated Bone Spike

[indigo mulch]

Man those low key mist runs is big deeps

i'm 211 overalling 6.1k :S

I really need to craft myself an m+ leggo 😐

[north basin]

guys parry on autoattacks harm us much? or meh

[limber lion]

Yes, you want to attack your target from behind if you can.

[stoic needle]

They're pretty bad because our energy costs are high. Getting a mutilate parried is really disruptive to our rotation

[north basin]

is it linked with our energy gain?

i mean only autoattacks

[frail fossil]

when the boss parries shiv

[north basin]

not parry on abilities

[limber lion]

No, we don't get energy from auto-attacks.

[brittle pawn]

if your autos are getting parried, so are your abilities

[limber lion]

We get energy from bleeds/poisons and passively.

[north basin]

so only thing its when our finisher get parried and we waste another gcd?

[limber lion]

You don't want any of your abilities to be parried. Not generators, not finishers, nothing.

[shell ivy]

do u mutilate at 5 cp for 1 cp or is it not worth

with deeper

[limber lion]

No, never worth.

[shell ivy]

damn ok

[limber lion]

You want to finish at 5-6 cp with DS, or 4-5 with Vigor/MFD

[shell ivy]

ok got it

[frail fossil]

do u shiv for 1 cp ?

only think i'm unsure of

[tribal marlin]

50 energy for 1cp, you'd better using FoK at this price 😄

[limber lion]

Yeh that's fine

[frail fossil]

alright wanted to double check

[limber lion]

Shiv/Garrote are perfect filler generators when you're missing that 1-2 cp.

[brittle pawn]

p sure you shiv at max cp if its up

[slender berry]

i would love assa having shadow techniques

[tribal marlin]

you shiv when it's off cooldown

[frail fossil]

wait no way

[tribal marlin]

if shiv is off cooldown it has to be your next global

(unless Rupt is not ticking basically)

[frail fossil]

whispyr can u confirm that u shiv even at max cp

[stoic needle]

Yes

[limber lion]

Yes

[balmy condor]

Single Target Covenant Comparison:
Doomblade on hands, talents: 3320021, WPS on non-lashing sims

[balmy condor]

yes

[frail fossil]

alright well u learn something new every day

[slender berry]

might wanna check the guides in the pins because thats basic stuff

[limber lion]

You didn't in BFA afaik, so could be that.

[stoic needle]

3/3 sin one tricks agree: shiv at max cp

[frail fossil]

yeah i'm pretty sure someone told me not to do that in bfa lol

[limber lion]

We'd rather finish and use Shiv as a generator for CP.

But that was when most of our damage was from bleeds (or garrote more specifically)

Now our big deeps is from the Envenom's.

[frail fossil]

also like i'm not sure abt something, do u hold your vanish in vendetta for shiv to come off cd ?

[stoic needle]

I love the doomblade damage breakdown

[frail fossil]

i know shiv should be up when ur vanish is up but shit can happen

[strange python]

Does anyone have data on if sin rogue is now the bis target for PI post 9.0.5?

[tribal marlin]

I mean in BFA the Toxic Blade apl line

[stoic needle]

#wow-general pins

[tribal marlin]

was litterally :
actions.cds+=/toxic_blade

[slender berry]

unless the time you wait and the desycn it may cause later on causes you to loose 1 vanish cast , yes you definitly should

[tribal marlin]

mean that you just pressed TB every time it was avaible

[stuck merlin]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stoic needle]

Shiv cd is 25s and vanish/vend is 2min so it doesn't line up perfectly

[tribal marlin]

eventually you pool for an extra 1sec before envenom if it happens that your next two globals are Envenom > Shiv, then you might do Shiv > Envenom insteed, but assuming you are capping energy doing it, would not even be a win in sims

[silent tinsel]

Kinda sad that most of the top raiders won't know kelthuzad as a fan favorite next raid

[frail fossil]

?

[heavy coral]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[subtle tundra]

whats so sad about that

that the game gets new players and is growing

[stoic needle]

Is there any way to determine how much of a dps loss it is to overcap energy for a set period of time?

[subtle tundra]

instead of only keeping old players

and dying

[stoic needle]

Like 2 seconds, 3 seconds, 5, etc

[silent tinsel]

He's obviously there for fan service

[subtle tundra]

and whats the problem?

[tribal marlin]

I don't know, seems complicated to implement

[boreal sun]

guys, for crafting doomblade i assume we are putting haste/crit on gloves?

[tribal marlin]

You can eventually add a raid event that simulate a movement for X amount of seconds.

[timber socket]

anyone who can send me a link to the optimal venthyr opener? 🙂

[tribal marlin]

Such that would be equivalent of "not doing anything for X amount of sec"

[austere raft]

do you delay venthyr ability for vandetta?

[limber lion]

With MA:
Mut - Slice - Mut - Gar - Vendetta - Flag - Rupture - Shiv - Vanish - Mut - Envenom - Mut

[honest lake]

Should i use shiv on cd?

[limber lion]

You can if you won't miss a cast, safer to cast on cd.

[limber lion]

Yes.

[honest lake]

Even with 1 cp?

[timber socket]

Prolly gonna play with zoldyck for sire tho

[stoic needle]

Yes

[honest lake]

Kk

[limber lion]

If it's on cd, you press it.

[stoic needle]

We outlaw now

CDs on cd

Full send it

[tribal marlin]

depends on fight lenght. Short&dirty :

1. if fight lenght <4:30 yes
2. if fight lenght 4:45<fight < 6:00 no but delay last vendetta to sync with last Flag
3. if fight lenght > 6:20 don't delay anything

[silent tinsel]

I'll trade adrenaline rush for vendetta plox

[stoic needle]

I wouldn't

AR is kinda trash

[silent tinsel]

I want vendetta more than you

[tribal marlin]

Oh I have a solution for you

[honest lake]

Another question, in m+ , using subterfurge, after using vanish i should use garrote then envenom ?

[icy crater]

this may sound weird cronous

but use the search function in the top right and look up gar gar gar

just read everything ceverion says

[stoic needle]

GARRET ONE

GARRETT TWO

GARRET THREE

[safe totem]

any Garrets in the chat?

[tribal marlin]

30

[honest lake]

Looool, ty

[stoic needle]

Rip exsang

I'm so sad I missed this https://youtu.be/6-wINzrcgMM

[icy crater]

i really dont enjoy exang

[limber lion]

I love Exsang, I'm sad that it's shit.

[icy crater]

on ST anyways

[silent tinsel]

Kingsbane when?

[limber lion]

What do you mean? We just got it this patch

It's called Flagellation

[icy crater]

I guess exang is better than venom rush

bfa omegalul

[silent tinsel]

When is 9.1 ptr?

[tribal marlin]

if one specific new borrowed power ever gives a temporary crazy buff to Rupture or Garrote we might see some exsang play

Having a shit tons of haste is not enough to make exsangue ever good. So it has to have some wierd interaction with specific mechanics

[icy crater]

I wish it increased the tick rate but kept the length of the bleed up or something

maybe that would be busted

[tribal marlin]

i'm not even sure it could be any close to Alacrity even if that was the case

but who know

maybe as venthyr, but yeah basically I believe you need some interaction with borrowed power relatied to Rupture or Garrote to make Exsangue worth it

[icy crater]

it would be sick if fae worked with night stalker

[tribal marlin]

like it was the case with SS

[icy crater]

and you could empowered rupture or something

[tribal marlin]

Sepsis has been volontaree taken away from any interaction with assa rogue mechanics

[hollow escarp]

I was just thinking about how similar they are lol

[stoic needle]

If exsanguinate reset the duration of the bleed with the new tick rate it would be cool

Man so flag is how kingsbane felt? Legion sin must have been badass

[hollow escarp]

trust me, I was so dumb I didn't really understand what Kingsbane did

just pressed it on cd

[grim hawk]

i played legion sin and pushed keys ALL the way up to +5

it was fun to play

[silent tinsel]

I thought it just did more damage as you applied more poisons

[hollow escarp]

Legion was the only time I kinda pushed keys

did a few 21-23 keys

[stoic needle]

Sepsis giving subterfuge or nightstalker would be so amazing

[tribal marlin]

basically yes

was a dot t hat was ramping up while you applied poison

[lavish pulsar]

hey is there a good opening rotation for Deeper Strat? It's simming higher for me but feels super awkward to play with mut/snd/mut/garrote etc. I'm waiting for energy really early on

I might just need more haste

[tribal marlin]

The default opener is good. But you can do Mut > Rupt > Mut > Gar > SnD if you prefer. It's not a gain tho

[silent tinsel]

Press vend earlier

It's off gcd

[lavish pulsar]

oo, that makes sense, patch in the energy hole

[hollow escarp]

I would rather use vendetta to pump damage

but that works I guess

[silent tinsel]

It lasts long enough to fit in your cds

Unless it's sludgefist and you have to hold

[stoic needle]

There are few things more satisfying currently than vend > flag > rupture > > mut > env

And each flag hit is like 10k

[cedar hare]

How much u guys sim? 5min ST assa

[limber lion]

6.9k

[icy crater]

would u run burrs in tyrannical week

[limber lion]

No

[cedar hare]

@limber lion ilvl?

[limber lion]

Well, you can if you want.

[icy crater]

fs all the time?

[limber lion]

It can help with boss damage but FS is too good for packs

[tribal marlin]

https://i.imgur.com/vgcNNN6.png
Stuff like this with additionnal active giga haste trinket over short period (6 to 10sec) + procs could make Exsanguinate works.
The goal would be to find a a short windows (just need 2sec) where every haste buff including Venthyr, haste rating, PI etc...) are ups, snapshot everything into a full pandemic nightstalker exsg'd rupture and there you go

[limber lion]

226

[barren brook]

'-' ... is doomblade just behind zoldyck in aoe o_o ? really ?

[tribal marlin]

But to illustrate how bad exsanguinate is actually, you would need such crazy thing to make exsanguinate "maybe" viable ^^

[limber lion]

Even with Shrouded Suffocation, you still would use Toxic Blade and not Exsang

Only after you got like 7x Expedient III's you would switch to Exsang

So you had like 70% baseline haste AND 3x Shrouded Suffocation azerite traits

[tribal marlin]

We were playing Exsanguinate in uldir before they nerfed Shrouded as well

[limber lion]

Yep

[icy crater]

yea

[tribal marlin]

primarly due to Galecaller existing

[icy crater]

I was so happy when that droped for me lmao

[silk lotus]

So for the people that have killed or working on mythic sire, I know most are using doomblade on logs but for your first kill while it's messy would you recommend zoldyck for the execute portion of the fight? As it's the most important from what I understand.

[tribal marlin]

In dungeon slice*

In pure aoe Zoldyck is probably better

[hollow escarp]

zoldyck last boss SD

[icy crater]

xd

[hollow escarp]

imagine another boss like Fury of Azshara

from EoA

[tribal marlin]

Zoldyck is undertune tbh

It should buff envenom

Last time I checked, Zoldyck was like barely 3% ahead of Doomblade in execute range with lust and 3mn for 2 vendetta

[icy crater]

do you guys use a group finder addon?

[hollow escarp]

no

[plucky pasture]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[barren brook]

mmhhh ... so i should take doom for tyranical dungeon i suppose

[frigid kestrel]

PB or CT in TOP?

[hollow escarp]

ToP CT damage

[frigid kestrel]

Bet

[hollow escarp]

it's usually top in most dungeons

I still think it's better

doubt you can get that damage from PB alone

[frigid kestrel]

ye

[languid plinth]

new to sin - why does icyveins suggest using muti from stealth instead of ambush?

[frigid kestrel]

just wondering, didnt think there were alot of big mobs in TOP so i was just curious

[shy dust]

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[hollow escarp]

!ambush

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[hollow escarp]

lol

[shy dust]

O wrong one

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[shy dust]

There’s your answer @languid plinth

[languid plinth]

tyvm

[tepid iris]

Is there any consensus on the dagger offhand vs slow? I imagine there's an internal GCD on the energy gain

[hollow escarp]

uhm

[ruby birch]

this is sin discord

[tepid iris]

er

wrong channel 😛

[hollow escarp]

but yeah

[ruby birch]

channel

w/e

[hollow escarp]

dagger in off hand on outlaw gives more poison applications

[ruby birch]

@tepid iris type !oh in sub channel

[arctic cloud]

Lol I’ve been playing wrong all week. Well done me

[hollow escarp]

it's not really obvious

so it's fine

[dull osprey]

Does it really matter where the doomblade lego is?

[ruby birch]

gloves

you cant get 233 gloves but you can get 233 shoulders

[dull osprey]

werd

[ruby birch]

if you're not going to be killing mythic slg though

it shouldnt matter too much

both are same stat distribution

[gusty mirage]

by the time my guild gets to slg on mythic, I'll have enough for a r4 pair of doomblade gloves

[hollow escarp]

I'm so tired I read Gloomblade Gloves

[void pecan]

Same @gusty mirage

[hollow escarp]

I've seen guilds being stuck for good weeks on council

[void pecan]

The filthy casual life.

[hollow escarp]

and I'm about to start prog on it on monday

[tacit plover]

Do we put haste versa on the leggo?

[hollow escarp]

it works

[balmy condor]

haste/vers or haste/crit

whichever you want

tbh

[tacit plover]

Thank you

[gloomy fern]

hmm sin was pretty fun and ok in m+

[shy dust]

Did that mage forget to press combust

[gloomy fern]

poor 2k rio mage getting beat by a first time sin player

yeah, mist is kinda perfect for sin though in labyrinth

[void pecan]

you runnin the typical M+ build?

[gloomy fern]

2212223

[rocky sinew]

Leggo?

[gloomy fern]

zoldyck, just testing sin out in m+ so dont trust me

[void pecan]

Doom is good on some tyran dungeons IIRC

pf and theater?

[silent tinsel]

Who needs mutiliate

[balmy condor]

AoE and Cleave Covenant Comparisons:

[stoic needle]

herbs

[granite bramble]

yo dudes

[tawdry token]

is this theotar with venthyr ? or

[granite bramble]

does emeni sim include the gain from party members?

[balmy condor]

aoe/dungeonslice sims use theotar with wasteland, single target uses nadjia with duelist

[dense axle]

Mmm good to see necro on top of something. I feel vindicated

[stoic needle]

necrolord is pretty big for aoe

[dense axle]

Also haven't touched sin since nyalotha and I really like the changes they've made

[dense quest]

so doomblade is Bis now for everything after the buff?

[stoic needle]

it's bis for single target

that's it

[dense axle]

I went from 8th to 1-3 on my guild dps meters

[dense quest]

oh

[vestal wren]

@balmy condor 👍 nice

[dense axle]

By changes I really just mean blindside becoming worth pressing. I feel like they need to make it baseline

[vestal wren]

its somewhat expected that bone spike is strong on any of the sustained fight styles

i am suprised how "weak" it sims in dungeon slice

[limber lion]

Yeah the rankings stayed pretty much the same.

[worldly bridge]

never realized Theotar is better for m+. Isnt it hard to play around the mastery buff with tornadoes this week ?

[heavy skiff]

its a big area

[dense axle]

Imo that just reveals a flaw in dslice as a sim. It's doing great dps for me in m+

[stoic needle]

even with suboptimal usage it's still going to end up being better than nadjia for multi target situations

dslice is not a flawed sim type. people just don't understand what it's actually simulating

[balmy condor]

Legendary Comparisons:
More detailed single target sims underneath, here: <#assassination message>

[stoic needle]

whispyr going the fuck off

[tribal marlin]

I'm surprise how weak DS sims are at all :(. It's literally only 300dps more than ST

[iron orchid]

Whispyr live streaming fucking with the pins is best thing

[vestal wren]

@tribal marlin thats due to downtime

[iron orchid]

CONTENT

[vestal wren]

i didn't realize he streams, time to tune in

[tribal marlin]

oh ok

[stoic needle]

i am upset how well tiny toxic blade is simming

[gentle gyro]

https://i.imgur.com/cyamj3G.png
ayo we take those

now watch it sim lower for some reason

[gentle gyro]

why would you

[stoic needle]

i want this legendary to die in a fire

[gentle gyro]

i liked toxic blade, but then again that was a talent

[vestal wren]

@balmy condor #tc-updates message

koji brike down the uptime of diffrent group sizes in #tc-updates a while ago

[onyx wind]

What are the differences between the DS sims?

[viral vigil]

So i'm new here. What is DungeonSlice?

[livid temple]

If you use doomblade in M+ do you basically just bleed everything up and then tab target Muti everything?

[strange python]

on Council of Blood - is it worth it to keep up garrote and rapture on the other bosses for energy regeneration or should I focus on one Boss?

[broken zodiac]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stoic needle]

just 1 garett on the closest boss

[broken zodiac]

!bis

[iron orchid]

keeping both bleeds on all bosses is a loss

[stoic needle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/droptimizer

[iron orchid]

You'd ideally want one bleed on one of the other bosses

[strange python]

thank you very much

[strange python]

thank you

[gloomy fern]

make sure poison get applied

[strange python]

k

[silent tinsel]

Does details filter out padding on that fight?

[balmy condor]

zoldyck vs MA

[limber lion]

No, WCL does

[gloomy fern]

details does as well

removes it when bosses heal

think wcl removes bleed dmg during the 50% dances on bosses though which details dont

[gray tundra]

Which one is best COV for M+ ?? if assassination

[limber lion]

[plucky pasture]

Why everyone is making Doomblade Lego on Hand piece?

[limber lion]

But... they don't take any damage during the dance...

[frail fossil]

"everyone"

well i wish i was everyone

[plucky pasture]

sry, almost everyone in warcraftlogs

[gloomy fern]

pretty sure they do, range who got close dances can dps and they can be like 48-46% hp when dance ends

[plucky pasture]

❤️

[frail fossil]

nah it's just a meme cuz i crafted them on shoulder when i shouldn't have

ppl make it on hands because u can have a 233 shoulder

[sleek sparrow]

Most people are just in the likely/unlikely case they ever do M slg or they already have 226 shoulders with good stats :^)

[frail fossil]

but u cant have a 233 hand

so it's why people craft it on hand

[plucky pasture]

understand 🙂

ty ❤️

[onyx wind]

What does the API do for MA?

[frail fossil]

still crafted it on shoulder like an idiot while i'm literally progging slg

[sleek sparrow]

[balmy condor]

I’m not sure I understand the question

[onyx wind]

Just curious how it plays

since it deals more dmg than zoldyck

its worth trying out

[balmy condor]

The vanish conditionals change depending on talents chose

But it plays how you would expect it would

Open, cooldowns, vanish

[onyx wind]

wait MA as in legendary yea?

just making sure

yea mostly concerned about the opener

[balmy condor]

Yes ma as in legendary

With subterfuge you just 3x garrote like normal

[gray tundra]

what is check the pin??

[frail fossil]

look at the pinned posts

before asking a question, as it may be answered by it

[limber lion]

You pretty much just put down 3-4 garrotes, one rupture, ct up then vanish and do another 3 garrotes

[gentle gyro]

using vanish at a target dummy causes details to reset. whyyyyyyyyy

[shy axle]

if we do not lose any flag cast do we still dleay it to pair it with vendetta or is that old news already?

[onyx wind]

That sounds so sad

[limber lion]

It's pretty gigaburst when you have 4 (3+1) garrotes and CT up on everything

[heavy skiff]

reset overall data and use overall

[stoic needle]

[onyx wind]

But its only like 2-3 ticks...

depending on timing

But even playing like that its better than zoldyck

I guess?

[frail fossil]

any doomblade shoulder gamers in chat

[onyx wind]

no :)

[stoic needle]

couldn't be me

[onyx wind]

crit/haste on hands ofc

as it should be

[heavy skiff]

but still at 190.... cause i dont have gold 😦

[stoic needle]

haste/vers gaming because i wanna pvp with them

[onyx wind]

pepelaugh

[stoic needle]

just boost

i made 300k this week boosting

[gray tundra]

thank you i figured out what is check the pin.

[onyx wind]

how many runs?

[stoic needle]

uhm... maybe 8 total?

[heavy skiff]

M+?

[stoic needle]

farming valor and gold at the same time

[gray tundra]

hope to get assa rogue information here but English is not my first language

[stoic needle]

yeah M+

[onyx wind]

just generals+sire?

[stoic needle]

oh no M+

[onyx wind]

doesnt seem that bad

oh

Actually makes sense to boost m+ yea

[stoic needle]

if i can do timed 15 boosts as sin, anyone can do it

[onyx wind]

for valor aswell

What were u running with?

[stoic needle]

whatever random other people signed up to boost. mostly boomkins. there was this insane pumper havoc dh i ran with and a pretty solid warlock too

i was honestly scared whether i'd be able to time 15s but sin works really well on tyrannical week

pumping 6k+ on bosses even without pride

[onyx wind]

Yea same

big fan of zoldyck

for boss execute

[knotty sparrow]

Are you holding vendetta until 30%?

[trail patio]

@balmy condor Your pandemic plater profile has changed my life. ❤️

[knotty sparrow]

Or using it with BL

[balmy condor]

[tame lake]

Does death from above count as an envenom

[icy haven]

it should

[dense hamlet]

it is a envenom and counts as one

[balmy condor]

yes

[torpid spoke]

Lol

[slender trail]

thanks for resimming everything whisp

[safe barn]

how much u guys are paying to recieve PI's

[balmy condor]

[sleek sparrow]

You earn Pi's, never pay for them

[safe barn]

damn the new sim makes the difference between venthyr and nf huge

[cyan kite]

hmm I want to do necro to balance between outlaw for keys and sin for raid

sims seem to suggest it wouldn't be a huge loss on sin

[frail fossil]

2% roughly in st yes

[cyan kite]

warcraftlogs looks really bad for necro, but that's probably just because there's like no parses

[frail fossil]

yeah it's just that assa player are more likely to go venthyr

doesn't mean necro is bad

if u like assa/outlaw for m+ necro is a good compromise

[safe barn]

is this also a rule for sin?

ALL 4 COVENANTS ARE STILL WITHIN LESS THAN 70-200 DAMAGE AT MOST FOR ALL SIM STYLES, IF YOU DON'T LIKE HOW A CERTAIN COVENANT PLAYS, OR LOOKS, YOU ARE MORE THAN ABLE TO PICK A "SUBPAR" COVENANT OPTION AND STILL PERFORM AT A HIGH LEVEL AS ALL OF THEM HAVE ADVANTAGES TO THEM OTHER THAN JUST RAW OUTPUT. PLAYING YOUR SPEC AT A HIGHER LEVEL, WILL ALWAYS BE WORTH MORE THAN 2% SIM DPS GAINS.

[proper belfry]

Does envenom or evis hit harder? like, which spec is more bursty, assassin or sub?

[frail fossil]

yes

wait maybe not for kyrian

kyrian 5% behind venthyr; rest is about 2%

[slim pebble]

Where do I get that plater profile at 👀👀

[limber lion]

https://wago.io/p/Whispyr
took me 3 seconds to google

[tender fjord]

I think it’s the long set up. On 5 min 3 target you put out your 3 bone spikes and after every 30 seconds you’ll get a 4/5cp bonespike, which is huge. On ST (50% of the dungeon slice) this is not used. And I’m not versed in how the other 50% works but when you start at a pack there is little added value in ramping CPs with bonespikes. Only when you can consistently snipe low health mobs you can keep using it as a cheap 3cp builder. But by the time you can do that, most of the mobs are almost dead anyway, not just one.

[slim pebble]

Thanks fam

[raven egret]

I did it, I ended up joining your venthyrsin ranks

[limber lion]

Welcome 🧛

[vestal wren]

sbs sniping isn't rly that much of a thing

the reason sbs is good on a sustained fights is that it stays on target for the entire fight with 1 application

[maiden plaza]

do you CT in ST? without zoldyck if that matters

[dawn bronze]

Unless it falls off due to range :\

[stoic needle]

[gentle gyro]

is not having double on use trinkets worth 10 dps

the answer is yes btw

[cyan kite]

you guys go haste/vers on legendary?

[gentle gyro]

depends on what the sim says

i go haste / crit cause i ain't havin enough crit yet

[onyx wind]

Using with BL always, but sometimes u get it up before boss dies

[onyx wind]

what does 70-200 mean XD

u sure they dont mean 0-130?

[knotty sparrow]

@onyx wind I always get it up when the boss dies

Hnmmngggg

[onyx wind]

Yea most boss fights are 2 minutes on tyrannical

For some reason seems very consistant at 2 minutes

Even with entire group doing 10k dps

[knotty sparrow]

You’re saying you vendetta on pull and then you can usually vendetta again during execute phase?

Makes sense

[onyx wind]

Well not usually, usually i cant

But if we need it, eg. someone dies

Its always up

plus using vendetta on pull is just more dmg with pride

[knotty sparrow]

Right yeah

[safe barn]

this was not for sin

its a quote from the outlaw

[onyx wind]

Yea but that still doesnt make sense

Im just nitpicking :( sorry

[slim pebble]

@balmy condor Im trying to get your WA to load even when I am OOC and its not showing up for some reason? I have the settings how I should but no dice

[balmy condor]

I handle that through conditionals because I want to see the CD on things OOC, so a load state would just make it disappear entirely

usually the visibility is handled at the end of the conditions

[tender fjord]

Yeah but that’s my point. In DS that would seem to me the most optimised play but still marginal gain. But on prolonged cleave an extra envenom in your Shiv window is pretty nutty

[eternal wave]

So this is very much feelcraft but I feel I generate A LOT more CP throughout a fight booking all my gear/sockets/enchants towards crit instead of Haste

Like even at 25% Haste I struggle so hard to splash out 3 Envenoms during a Shiv if nothing crits

And 25% is what I reach fully optimized for Haste

[slow marsh]

Yeah you probably do but your dots aren't ticking as fast aka less dps most likely

But if that's what sims say then go for it

[eternal wave]

That is true

[slow marsh]

You have to remember haste generates more energy due to venomous wounds

[eternal wave]

Mmh

Simcraft does prefer Haste over Crit

Albeit veeeeeery slkightyl

slightly

[fair stag]

which trinkets are you guys using for M+? Not sure if double on use is the move

[slow marsh]

But crit is very good. I am at the point where I am dropping haste on gear in favor for crit+slight ilevel up

But you should be able to get haste crit on most everything now so it's not a huge deal. Just need to get your ksm and snipe the good stuff to upgrade to 220

[cyan kite]

you take heirmir's gemstones over a second potency, correct?

[slow marsh]

Yes

[icy crater]

Imagine having the luxury in balancing haste and crit kek

Scrounging for scraps trying to get rid of fking vers rn

[slow marsh]

I mean vers haste/crit isn't bad either. As long as it's not the pvp hard stacking vers

Like boe cloak is super good

[icy crater]

Every single piece of gear I have equipped is main stat vers

[slow marsh]

Shoulders from slg.

Yeah rip lol

[indigo mulch]

Ugh

SLG gives me PTSD.

[silent tinsel]

Sims have me splitting my gems between haste and crit

[eternal wave]

Outside margin?

[bleak dune]

from what i see , isnt necro the better choice? Venthyr is just a little bit better in ST (100dps) but necro is better in m+ , multitarget boss fights and pvp. Or iam wrong?

[bleak glacier]

what im hearing is crimson tempest > poison bomb ?

leggo doesnt matter either?

[agile storm]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[livid temple]

I'd say it really depends on the sim but for me nerco sims better for 3+ targets and dungeon slice by about 70-90 dps and venthyr sims about 140 dps more for single target and two target

I chose venthyr because the mog is cool and the ability is more interesting in my opinion

[tropic echo]

would it be a bad idea to bind mutilate & ambush on 1 button if you're running blindside?

i cant think of a time where you'd ever choose to mutilate over ambush if you had a blindside proc

[warped heath]

I am pugging heroic Sludge, what's the CD usage?

[tender fjord]

You can but it’s wonky, why would you not just have a separate button?

[warped heath]

I assume it's Vendetta on 1-3

[tropic echo]

simplicity sake, im not really sure where to put ambush on my non stealth bar

to where it would feel intuitive to press

[tender fjord]

I have it on C. The button itself is on the separate right extra bar

[late bolt]

I do pull, 2 and 4, cause my guild isnt that great with dps lol

[eternal wave]

Can somebody end me?

Right now?

[tender fjord]

Poor man’s vial, congrats

[warped heath]

You coordinate it with vanish?

[late bolt]

ye, at least I try to 😄

[warped heath]

just returning to Assassination from Outlaw

[torn atlas]

Shift+3 modifier for me.

[weak horizon]

bro assassination is so much more fun than outlaw

especially on single target

[warped heath]

yes, that's why I am coming back

[late bolt]

But also depends on when BL is used tbh, if its done on the third its big sadge 😄

[weak horizon]

honestly even lots of fun in m+

[warped heath]

We doing BL on 3rd, so I will do 1-3

[late bolt]

ye

[weak horizon]

you actually have to do some thinking instead of just blade flurry cleave

[warped heath]

I can't stand roll the bones

[weak horizon]

ditto

[warped heath]

Only reason I was outlaw is this game hasn't given me a weapon yet

[weak horizon]

especially in ST. like you roll and then you are stuck with leech and snd for your roll during AR

[warped heath]

I had to PVP just to get daggers

[weak horizon]

damn, that's rough

[tropic echo]

does anyone play vulpera?

[frail fossil]

[deep knoll]

is assa stronger than outlaw in castle nathria

?

[frail fossil]

in single target focused fight probably yes

[onyx wind]

Outside of stone legion, most likely

[silent fossil]

sim top gear instead of weights

[solid vapor]

question whats better to use in an opener? ambush or mut?

[stoic needle]

OOZE GANG OOZE GANG

[balmy condor]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[solid vapor]

so even in like pvp its just flat out better to use mut

[dense hamlet]

probably not garrote silence

cuz of garrote silence"

[solid vapor]

well i mean you kinda MfD kidney into mut / garrote i kinda figure

[dense hamlet]

yeah that also works

[solid vapor]

running subterfuge

[eternal wave]

pepePhial

Plz

[halcyon zealot]

is subterfuge worth on M huntsman? seems from logs atm it’s a toss up

[hollow escarp]

not enough data yet

[velvet terrace]

bois I'm doing a KSM push this weekend, what leggo should I make for pure M+? currently have 2 MA's with different stats and wondering whether I should make doomblade or zoldicks. any input would be greatly appreciated

[dense hamlet]

why do u have 2 Ma's

dfk]

[sage fern]

is MA even good?

[formal cliff]

The leggo you go for pure M+ is Outlaw

[velvet terrace]

first made vers/mast for pvp, but fully gemmed up at 33% vers so I made a crit/mast* one

[velvet terrace]

yeah i would if i could stand the spec

[dense hamlet]

well u see even with outlaw

if u run Ma

crit loses abit of value

so if u have like flat 0 or very low mastery

mastery might even be good

i dont think u need to craft a second lego for that but yeah w/e ur choice

[velvet terrace]

honestly I don't want to craft one either lmao but I'm soul ash capped

so I figured why not make one that could make me squeeze a single digit percent more dps

[dense hamlet]

soul ashe capped wtf

[velvet terrace]

my pve set

[dense hamlet]

make some lego go have some fun

[velvet terrace]

yeah

zoldick or doomblade? :]

[sage fern]

is MA good when you start garroting in the opener?

zoldick is the m+ go to

[dense hamlet]

zold would be better for mplus

[velvet terrace]

it does seem that way based on the pinned comments, was wondering if there'd be any opposition or if an argument can be made for doomblade with 15+ key boss health pools

[dense hamlet]

i mean zold isnt even bad on bosses

and u gain on trash pulls

cuz u dont envenom almost in like aoe packs

[warped heath]

I thought Zold was our Legendary of choice for raiding as well?

[dense hamlet]

doomblade seems better but for fights like sire phase 3 prog zold is pretty solid

[velvet terrace]

well thats enough to get me to roll zold, appreciate the help

[dense hamlet]

np

[strange python]

can any1 tell me what is the exact opener? sometimes it feels like it would be wrong. i play actually: muti (stealthed) > snd > muti > gar > cov (vent) > rup > shiv > vendetta > vanish

[stoic needle]

That's the correct one with the MA talent

[strange python]

ty

what is chaning with subterfuge?

[velvet terrace]

garrote open

[ancient peak]

oh damn necro second best now

[stoic needle]

To be completely honest, necro fae and venthyr are all basically equivalent considering how much better necro is in aoe and how close fae is to the others in the other scenarios

It's all about what you want to specialize in imo

[vestal wren]

i think its easy to forget that necro is only better on sustained aoe

so it rly depends

[marble hemlock]

wdym

initial dmg is pretty big for burstier scenarios too

[vestal wren]

the main gain from the ability is in sustained

thats why it sims way worse in dungeon slice

[marble hemlock]

worse than what? flag?

[vestal wren]

yes

[marble hemlock]

seeing how when i did a few keys as assa this week, with short pull durations due to it being a low~ish key, sbs made up like ~12-14% of my damage, thats a little hard to believe

[reef axle]

So apparently we flag on CD, some say flag on vendetta 🤔 which one is it? Mixed guides

[marble hemlock]

does someone have an aoe sim at hand? wanna take a look at the sample opener to see if theres some glaring issues

[vestal wren]

possible, i don't think the apl is agressively sniping

[dusty sapphire]

yo guys does phial work with mastery?

[dense hamlet]

flag with vend if u know u wont miss a cast cuz of fight timers otherwise on cd idk abt mplus tho

[marble hemlock]

what djavad wrote. i dont have covenant-specific usage in the IV guide yet, im getting down to writing those for the changed covenants tomorrow

[indigo mulch]

I mean, you generally wanna make sure you have cd's for pride.

if its pride > boss and your team has enough dmg to deal with it without you popping vendetta/flag save it and blast the boss but from my experience a rule of thumb is just to spam it on CD and just save it for pride

But i'm no expert tbh D= so take it with a grain of salt.

[burnt star]

Keep your cd for boss after pride

With pride and lust and cd. U will get maximum effect of flag + insane burst

[marble hemlock]

it greatly depends on what your grp needs

[burnt star]

20k dps

[marble hemlock]

people generally bring the rogue

for killing prides

[burnt star]

U can do huge damage on pride without it

[marble hemlock]

so itll depend on who has cooldowns available. as your burst with pride is really damn big

[burnt star]

Withour flag/vendetta

[marble hemlock]

sure, but itll still live longer compared to using CDs on it

[indigo mulch]

^

[burnt star]

U are wasting dps if u cds on pride

Overall run dps

Just saying

[marble hemlock]

overall doesnt time keys

[indigo mulch]

^

^

[marble hemlock]

being efficient with dps does

[graceful mirage]

which slot os better for Doomblade?

[burnt star]

By overall i mean group dps

[marble hemlock]

delaying cds on pride to pump the boss means you will lose out on uses overall as well, need to consider that