assassination

[limber lion]

With DS you will have to use 2 Mutilates regardless, so maybe it values having the Envenom buff up before vanishing for 1 extra gcd. jk I have no fucking clue lmao

[subtle tundra]

read "Seal Fate" assassination passive

[thin gate]

yh thats what i mean, i mean like mikisha is talkin about the point why the engine tells him to envenom and vanish after that and my question was, is it because either the engine wants to regenerate cp by using mutilate which seems to be better than a higher crit chance on envenom or it counts the vanish as gcd

[plain thistle]

engine? you mean the apl? thats probably just a mistake

[limber lion]

It's legit most likely just because it's not a gain.

[thin gate]

so we actually bring that Envenom into the MA crit window by hitting vanish envenom in the same global

[limber lion]

Vanish has been working in the apl like that for the longest time.

[tribal marlin]

Nah I think I found

[plain thistle]

yeah, could be the same thing, especially with DS

[limber lion]

Even in Legion I was seeing it vanish and muti right after

Instead of one muti first and vanish env

It's one gcd, so it's probably very minimal gain if gain at all.

[thin gate]

but in the end its pretty much even

[balmy condor]

this is actually not too far off from my reasoning either

[plain thistle]

envenom > vanish > mut > mut > envenom OR vanish > envenom > mut > mut 🤷‍♂️

[thin gate]

0.0002% dps diff inc.

[plain thistle]

with DS, probably wont make that much of a difference

[limber lion]

Ah good to know my giga galaxy brain is at its peak at 3am

Alright good luck with your research boys, good night

[thin gate]

@limber lion 20 more IQ and ur gonna play WOW by using telekineses

[tribal marlin]

yeah but Having 50% additionnal crit on both Env and Flag hit is probably better.
Actually the screen I posted is probably just an edge case of wierd timing stuff

it's like a "false" warning because it probably happen one iteration over 15000

I rerunned the sim and the new sample sequence shown wasn't doing it anymore, without me changing anything

[limpid blaze]

dashing scoundrel got any place? worth crafting or shall i just go doomblade for raid and use zoldyck for m+?

[sharp pawn]

umm any1 doin m+ with assa? how does it feel

[crystal barn]

can you evasion night hunter?

[thin gate]

@sharp pawn did some, actually not even that bad if u dont chain pull like crazy but feels still like below avg

[mental laurel]

Nope

[dawn ivy]

kind of an assaassination question as its topical, has anyone had issues with the final "medallion of domination" campaign quest? I cant "clear the sky of enemies"

[dark jewel]

!oh

[prisma monolith]

Mutilate requires a dagger in both hands, this makes using a non dagger weapons undesirable.

[woeful plover]

Are we using Deeper Stratagem now? Is it better than vigor now? Im using doomblades legendary

[balmy condor]

venthyr campaign is all sorts of fucked

[balmy condor]

it can be, yes

[quick vale]

I had to drop the quest, and go back and redo it. Second time I made sure not to burn enemies hard, your npc has to do the full action and “kill” in the interrogation process

[dawn ivy]

ah damn

[quick vale]

With Assass it was easy to bleed kill before they were done RPing the interrogation

[dawn ivy]

ty for the tip

[solar bramble]

so. with flaggelation i'm assuming it's better to use mark for death?

[ancient peak]

do we always finish at -1? or would I use shiv or sepsis to get to max combo points then finish if either are available?

[solar bramble]

to get the extra 5% haste

[tribal marlin]

deeper strat

[stoic needle]

if shiv are sepsis are available it is okay to build with them and finish at max

[solar bramble]

oh deeper strat over vigor? . . so no pooling

difficult to pool for multiple finishers back to back without mfd or vigor lol

[desert ether]

Without Vigor, I feel somewhat energy starved. But that could easily be me not managing my energy properly.

[stoic needle]

you pool around envenom

don't envenom unless you're at 70%+ energy

if you do that you'll naturally have enough energy to get 2+ envenoms off when shiv comes up

[solar bramble]

i've always pooled around envenom. but i also like to get 2 multiates after envenom within the buff window

[stoic needle]

that's not super important, it's mostly about having energy in the tank for shiv

[dense bridge]

Is Sin decent for m+?

[stoic needle]

viable. i got ksm with sin. but worse than outlaw

[dense bridge]

Is it far worse?

Just not a big fan of outlaw haha

[stoic needle]

it does 10% less damage and has less utility

[ripe gulch]

whats the best venthyr soulbind?

[idle pier]

How much haste would you need to aim for as assass?

[stoic needle]

if you are pushing high keys you will feel the lack of a 2nd kick

[stoic needle]

there is no specific number. just equip what items sim the best

[stoic needle]

nadjia for single target, theotar for AOE/M+/fights where thrill seeker has bad timings around forced downtime mechanics

[lean coral]

hm so theo for keys?

[ancient peak]

@stoic needle does the same apply for garrote if it makes sense to refresh it?

[ripe gulch]

and do you go double potency or dauntless on nadija?

[lean coral]

i need to do campaign

[ancient peak]

use it to hit max cp before finisher?

[lean coral]

i usually hold the campaign missions till i can do them all

[stoic needle]

yep

[ancient peak]

cool thanks

[stoic needle]

dauntless unless it's a fight like SLG where your first target will become immune and there's other priority targets

[lusty obsidian]

can someone tell me the tl'dr what stats I'm putting on doomblade gloves?

[stoic needle]

crit haste or haste vers

[lusty obsidian]

okay thanks

[stoic needle]

sorry, crit haste not crit vers

[lusty obsidian]

OH

even better

[bitter nova]

are there any 9.0.5 updated guides?

[stoic needle]

if you have a lot of pvp gear/are high on vers crit haste will sim better

[bitter nova]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[ancient peak]

we don't want to pool energy for envenom during vendetta though right?

[lost mist]

nice! my 1st day as assasination lol we needed that execute haha and with a little price

[gusty mirage]

[dawn ivy]

grats

[spice spire]

Absolute king

[strange python]

ur massive

[split grail]

Question: Assuming equal levels, should I be using Lethal Poisons or Well Placed Steel. They seem more or less equal but which is technically best

[tribal marlin]

the damage pattern of WPS is better than LP

(in case they are equal in sims, which i'm pretty sure they are not ?)

[split grail]

Thanks

[visual lake]

Is there a way to get WPS higher than 213? or do I need to play the venari lottery for that?

[lost mist]

oh, plus that, i got 226 venthyr conduit ❤️

[dense hamlet]

lmao ur a one lucky guy

[lost mist]

was the prize for like twenty 0.1% wipes

[torn atlas]

Is skipping on MfD in M+ gimping myself much? I find weaving it into rotation to be pretty clunky but I guess it comes with practice.

[sage shoal]

Hello may i know what stats do you put on zoldyck and what is the best slot?

[halcyon zealot]

so, on a target dummy, i just got a BS proc after my initial opening mut, do you spend proc insta or hold it while you garrote and rupture, then use it

[lament mica]

no bm but like how is MFD clunky? u literally just use it then use a finisher with 5 cp

[tender fjord]

Simming yourself

[silent tinsel]

torghast sucks

just a giant token sink

[torn atlas]

I more mean min/maxing it. trying to snipe things as they are about to die

[lament mica]

ya fair enough

[balmy condor]

haste + crit/vers on every legendary, for zold legs, for doomblade hands, for MA, ring

[sage shoal]

Thank you!

[lament mica]

u can just sim for urself specifically how much of a loss it would be. I recommend just keep practicing it

altho idk how good dungeon slice is optimized for new sin

[torn atlas]

I'll stick with it for tonights keys and see if I can get my head around it. guess it isn't really much different than keeping dots on everything.

[charred mango]

with the doomblade leggo, is it worth taking crimson tempest in ST fights?

[torn atlas]

Might even be a keybind issue. Find something a bit more comfortable.

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice is optimized and implemented for all 3 rogue specs. Other classes are a little lacking

[lament mica]

MFD should def be on a comfortable key

o thats cool. ya i know dungeon slice is hit or miss for certain specs

[balmy condor]

the only realistic complaint you can bring against dungeonslice is the pack size/length of packs tbh

even the death of each mob is randomized so they don't all die together

but the pack size/length was modeled after the log of a dungeon itself

so honestly not much of a complaint to have there either

[shut pollen]

so what's the ideal opening on a single target situation for venthyr sin?

[faint canopy]

Yo, with Deeperstrat in ST, should i use finishers at 4cp or 5cp?

[shut pollen]

assuming ua re using suggested talents

[whole badger]

Is ass now competive with outlaw in m+ now?

[dawn ivy]

competitive? not really

[lone moth]

is there macro for ambush to replace mutilate during blindside buff?

[shut pollen]

competitive yes comparable not so much

[tribal marlin]

poggies

[dawn ivy]

its better, but outlaw is heavily suited for m+ where as sin has to be played a bit differently for m+

[balmy condor]

mut snd mut gar (can vend here) venth rup vend (if you didn't earlier) mut shiv vanish

[balmy condor]

5

[balmy condor]

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[balmy condor]

[tribal marlin]

Did not loot on sire, I got blessed by Venari

[swift rapids]

Assass is more then ok in keys IMO just need to manage ruptures

[cyan echo]

oil or sharpen stone for raid for sin?

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[balmy condor]

!oil

I suggest stones

[lament mica]

how did u get that

[torn atlas]

Is soulbinds setup for M+ a matter or sim?

[shut pollen]

assa donwsides are a few while as outlaw u don't really have many

[eternal portal]

does cut to the chase work with Recuperator?

[balmy condor]

theotar/nadjia
korayn
kleia/mikanikos
heirmir

[shut pollen]

but at the end of the day you should play what u enjoy the most as long as u are not competing in mdi

[balmy condor]

yes, pins

[cyan echo]

ty whisp

[torn atlas]

Tea Time reads like a solid M+ choice while Dauntless for raid.

[stoic needle]

BLASTING

[solar bramble]

goldyk vs doomblade . . . for m+ specifically. . .

[stoic needle]

god damn

[stoic needle]

zoldyck

[solar bramble]

and zoldyck over MA as well?

[gusty mirage]

I’ll never get there cuz I’m a shitter

[stoic needle]

personal preference

i prefer zold but MA works fine

just gives you a different damage profile

more burst, more priority damage

[gusty mirage]

I’m just washed guys, send me off with a Viking burial. I’m just too boomer to be good anymore

[torn atlas]

is there ever an affix that would affect that? Like Zold seems the winner everytime, but do things like Tyr favour having the increased ST?

[blazing arrow]

Sin is literally the boomer spec wdym

Dont be so hard on yourself

Find areas where you make mistakes and improve

[tribal marlin]

[balmy condor]

you would never run MA on spiteful

[stoic needle]

[marble hemlock]

out DPSed by feral

shame

[tribal marlin]

that's overall !

[stoic needle]

tbh i think zold is better on tyrannical because of the increased sustained dps on bosses

[tribal marlin]

But some other rogue did best anyway after this pull

[stoic needle]

MA is better for fortified because it gives you better burst damage on packs

[lament mica]

u killed the big man and the big coduit dropped?

[tribal marlin]

conforting me that doomblade is probably better than Zoldyck on sire btw

[lament mica]

bruh moment

[stoic needle]

say it aint so

[tribal marlin]

some of these doomblade rogue did very good phase 3 damage

[mental wing]

I’m going in tomorrow i want my shriek #1 back

[hardy berry]

Does anyone personally run DS in M+? HeroDamage ranks it in the top slot for dungeon slice surprisingly

[lament mica]

doomblade outdps zoldyck on execute? that shuldn't be possible tho, right?

[primal turret]

so overall its better to craft insignia or doomblade? for both raid and m+

[tribal marlin]

he's a god-like feral I swear

[stoic needle]

zoldyck because doomblade is pretty much useless in M+

[solar bramble]

i mean in m+ deeper strat should take a lead . . anything where you're using fan of knives so much, and are already gcd capped

[stoic needle]

nah MFD is by far bis in M+ because of the resets

[mental wing]

Doomblade is nice on tyran weeks

[stoic needle]

i wouldn't run doomblade on any dungeon but TOP

[solar bramble]

ya resets are quite good. but i mean that vs vigor

[stoic needle]

maybe SD

oh vs vigor.. perhaps

[marble hemlock]

errr

calling mfd bis in m+ is... questionable

[solar bramble]

i personally love vigor if only for the max energy lol

[stoic needle]

why do you say that?

[marble hemlock]

not like those 2-3 more envenoms you get at the end of a pull are realistically doing anything

to make the pull go faster

[mental wing]

Plaguefall 6.2k dps with doom overall on a 16

[stoic needle]

i find it more useful for the start of the pull to get dots rolling

[marble hemlock]

playing subter w/o vigor generally leads to starvation issues early into the pull

[solar bramble]

i can see a potential slot for doom in m+ on tyrannical weeks. . . but if zoldyck is that close and still has usage on trash?

[stoic needle]

the problem with doom in M+ is that most dungeons have big pulls where doom isn't a good pick

[mental wing]

Well there are others for the heavy aoe

[solar bramble]

i never have issues with sub with or without vigor

[mental wing]

You shred bosses

[hardy berry]

What talents?

[solar bramble]

if ya got a mage with ya . . . . bleed dmg sub 30% doesn't matter on a lot of pulls tbf lol . . . they die too fast

[stoic needle]

how so? with venomous wounds you've got pretty much infinite energy once you have 4 garottes and a rupture up

[marble hemlock]

so how do you open on aoe then?

[stoic needle]

garrote x4 mfd rup or CT

[marble hemlock]

at what point do you start maintaining CT

why garrote 4times?

[silent tinsel]

[solar bramble]

i usually just get garrotes out. toss a fan of knives to poison everything. and then have at it

[mental wing]

2212223

[stoic needle]

why wouldn't you garotte 4 targets if you have 4 targets? it's free damage and free energy

[marble hemlock]

is it the highest DPE gcd you could use?

[solar bramble]

was it 4 or 5 bleeds that has you energy capped

[mental wing]

I would play zold on forti and doom on tyran

[solar bramble]

gcd capped*

[stoic needle]

I'd have to go look at the DPE of each ability in AOE in a sim to check but i'm pretty sure it is

[mental wing]

But depends on your group and play style

[stoic needle]

even though doomblade blasts bosses i don't feel like it's worth it because the majority of a dungeon is still trash packs. unless its a dungeon with really small pulls

[marble hemlock]

its also pretty cp inefficient, and the start of a pull is mostly about getting your energy sustain going

[mental wing]

Like plague

[marble hemlock]

garrote ticks every 3secs baseline, so its already worse at sustaining energy

than rupture

[ebon bramble]

how much worse?

[marble hemlock]

i dont have the DPE values for current assa aoe in my head, but id be hardpressed to believe that garrote beats fok in DPE on any pull thats more than 4targets

[tribal marlin]

not even mentionning cp generation

[tribal marlin]

4 garrote is 190 energy tho

[marble hemlock]

and that

dunno how you do that

with 120max energy

[torn atlas]

Yeah this makes me feel better. I'm a key pusher before a raider. Was considering crafting a lvl 1 DB if it had any potential in keys, but guess I'll dump my Ash into maxing out Zold first.

[stoic needle]

the VW ticks from the first 3 garottes usually give me enough energy for the 4th one

[marble hemlock]

so you just rely on getting a poison proc

on every garrote target

all the time?

[torn atlas]

We're taking a week off before starting myth CN so should still be able to get DB rolling by then.

[marble hemlock]

which isnt at all reliable

[primal turret]

Im watching logs and shiv is no used in ST rotation?

[marble hemlock]

seeing how you dont actually use an aoe ability until your 6th GCD

[fleet hill]

is deeper strat worth it for raiding or just stick with vigor

[fathom swift]

has garrote always cost this much energy? it feels like way more than it used to for some reason

[signal gulch]

doesnt show up in logs because blizzard is dumb

[primal turret]

oh i was gettin so mad xD

ty

[marble hemlock]

garrote was always 45 energy, yes. exception was tomb of sargeras

cause the setbonus lowered garrote cost/cd

the reason i said that playing subter w/o vigor is always a gamble, is because if you get a bit unlucky with poison procs, youre gonna starve energy ~5-6GCDs in

which is very bad

[stoic needle]

maybe i've just been getting lucky with poison procs then i can't say I've felt energy starved running mfd in keys

[marble hemlock]

but you also dont get CT up until

your 7th? gcd?

[strange python]

[balmy condor]

just real quick on the whole garrote thing, garrote 4x is sim-valid, but it might not be the best on every target count

[blazing arrow]

@fleet hill sim yourself

[balmy condor]

just as an aside

[stoic needle]

well i usually go 4 garrottes CT then MFD rup

so 5th

[marble hemlock]

it might be viable on 4/5t still

but again, depends on the pull as you said

[blazing arrow]

@fleet hill depending on your covenant + your haste

[ebon heath]

Is assa now better than sub for m+?

[marble hemlock]

i still dont see how you can spend

[patent plaza]

not sure if I want to make zoldycks or doomblade..

[fleet hill]

alright ty ty

[marble hemlock]

190energy in 4gcds with 120 max energy, 12passive regen and at most ~32energy from VW ticks

like thats... pmuch hitting 0energy at that point

[tribal marlin]

I heard that they fixed the 100% poison chance proc in stealth tho

[balmy condor]

I tend to personally always do 3 obviously, but depending on how the pull goes, it’s either rupture on 3, ct, or a 4th garrote

[marble hemlock]

doesnt help you when you dont use an aoe ability for the first 3 GCDs

[tribal marlin]

Foking out of stealth might actually apply 8 poisons

Which give FoK a very big DPE actually

[marble hemlock]

and yeah, ive moved to CTing from stealth and only doing 2 subter garrote

[balmy condor]

3x gar into rup into garrote is sim-accurate tho

There’s just too many variables

[stoic needle]

doesn't CT have a chance to apply poisons?

[tribal marlin]

same rate than every other ability

[marble hemlock]

its still only 50%

[tribal marlin]

wait

wait wait

I'm on smth big

[balmy condor]

I’m... not holding my breath

[tribal marlin]

fuck it does not work

[stoic needle]

[tribal marlin]

but yeah the first ability from stealth have 100% poison proc

so it might be actually interesting to open with FoK or Vanish into CT

I mean we already knew it has been fixed

[stoic needle]

honestly fok out of stealth always seemed like it could be the play to me but i never found a way to justify it

[marble hemlock]

just hold CP from previous pack

and open with CT?

[tribal marlin]

yeah sound good too

CT is 8 target right ?

[stoic needle]

yeah

[marble hemlock]

ye

[tribal marlin]

that's 8 poison applied instantly

I'm testing rn and it's been 10 time in a row that my FoK apply 5 poison to 5 target from stealth

[stoic needle]

damn did we just come up with a new aoe opener for sin

[marble hemlock]

not really no

[stoic needle]

well

y'all

but still

[marble hemlock]

nothing new about it

sim seems... odd as well

9.3k DPE for garrote seems mighty high

[stoic needle]

was it standard to open with fok or ct from stealth previously?

here new = different from the current consensus

[tribal marlin]

doesn't surprise me it's 4.5k damage

[stoic needle]

mfd CT from stealth perhaps?

[tribal marlin]

so with 80% increase from subter

Vigor is probably undersim in DS, unless DS actually account for movement during packs ?

[marble hemlock]

9.2k was

w/o subter

[tribal marlin]

9.2k w/o subter look wierd indeed

[balmy condor]

Your nightstalker CT thing from beta is actually simming quite well

[marble hemlock]

well ye

doesnt surprise me 😛

[tribal marlin]

does sim account for the 100% proc chance on poison ?

I know it's a known changes

so might have been pushed already in simc

[marble hemlock]

but yeah, my m+ gameplay definitely needs some adjusting

cause of the changed AP coefficients

and no more echo

[balmy condor]

To be fair tho, doomblade zoldyck ma

Ma,subt,ns, poison bomb, hidden blade, ct

Are all within like 4%

[marble hemlock]

but even if garrote is ahead in raw DPE

cp gen does matter

quite a bit

[balmy condor]

In some combination

[civic knot]

what are bis rings for assa boys

[marble hemlock]

just sad dashing is so trash

[tribal marlin]

I wish they could give us Echoing back

[marble hemlock]

please no

[balmy condor]

Sire ring and whatever sims highest

[tribal marlin]

I miss fok'in

[civic knot]

thanks homie

[tribal marlin]

foking was boring but somehow satifying xD

[subtle tundra]

even if they did give echoing back fok is target capped

[stoic needle]

.... go on....

[marble hemlock]

can people stop talking

about assa targetcap

the only situation where it matters, is generating CP on 9+ target pulls

where you still only hit 8 targets to proc sealfate on

[subtle tundra]

i didnt say anything about it

[tribal marlin]

facts : Echoing Blade is not target cap 😄

[marble hemlock]

on any largescale aoe pull, even at 20 targets, youll still very likely apply deadly poison and CT to like 15 of them

[tribal marlin]

You can go to Freehold equip your ol' good azerite armor and see

[subtle tundra]

dang i really triggered seli with mentioning target cap

[marble hemlock]

ye

[subtle tundra]

i didnt complain though

[marble hemlock]

cause people whine about it a lot ><

[tribal marlin]

Yeah i'm pretty sure large pull size is fine for Assa

[marble hemlock]

not saying you

just in general

hunter/monk had insane aoe, both targetcapped

[subtle tundra]

8 is better than 5 math proven

[marble hemlock]

to low numbers, too

[subtle tundra]

look where that got them, bug fixed

[marble hemlock]

doing good aoe is not about being capped or uncapped

[subtle tundra]

i just want to complain about fire

[tribal marlin]

Empowered Poisoned Katar : Increase FoK critical chance by an additionnal 15% and critical strike with Fan of Knives trigger an additionnal wave of blade on the target.

Please give us that

[stoic needle]

so is there anything inherently wrong with MFD+CT from stealth+2x subterfuge garottes instead of 3 subterfuge garottes?

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Ho3TW/ff5fa35b8e.png

this is

[strange python]

Hey do you guys all have guilds that you run mythic and raid content with or do you pug a lot?

[marble hemlock]

6t 2min

[dawn ivy]

not the empowered conduits

[marble hemlock]

DPE

just looking at that CT value

im gonna say

building more CP > garrote DPE

to spam more CTs

[subtle tundra]

i have really low expectation of the empowered conduit stuff

[stoic needle]

when you say spam do you mean refresh in pandemic or do you mean using it over spreading ruptures?

[viral meadow]

Mythic Guild for me. Never pugged a mythic raid. I can never see them up

[marble hemlock]

just using it at max CP, even pre-pandemic

[tribal marlin]

Only things I feel wrong with MFD is loosing Vigor = slowing considerably your energy regen building

[marble hemlock]

its also worse on ST

mfd

[stoic needle]

thats true

[marble hemlock]

which is arguably what you bring the rogue for

mfd is nice for outlaw cause it gives you additioanl RB cdr

for assa

getting a few extra envenoms in at the end doesnt do shit

[strange python]

Hmm I’m in garrosh and I’m having. A very hard time finding guilds that are pretty active and stay online for more things than just raid 2 times a week smh I’m getting tired of pugging keys

[stoic needle]

so is the goal now to get 5-6 bleeds out and then spam CT? on what target counts? i thought you only spam ct on 8t+

[marble hemlock]

id have to delve into it more

[strange python]

Is it because I’m in garrosh?

[marble hemlock]

to see the thresholds

[silent fossil]

https://i.imgur.com/BmZlPSp.png do i commit to assass swap or stay outlaw team i need help :(

[stoic needle]

i always thought that CT could be worth spamming at less than 8t

[viral meadow]

I mostly pug my keys but I have a handful of IRL friends and friends from old guilds that I build with. So it’s a bit easier

[marble hemlock]

itd depend on a bunch of factors

god my typing is getting worse

[void pecan]

The rage is building

is ok

[marble hemlock]

maintaining higher envenom uptime is most likely worth more than the instant CT damage

[stoic needle]

tell me what parts of the apl you'd be editing and i'd be happy to mess around with it

[balmy condor]

Again just popping my head in on this, I briefly looked at “spamming ct” like that, but in the quick 15-ish minutes that I was testing, it seemed considerably worse

[marble hemlock]

while garrote has good DPE; it has shit CP gen, which is a big part of our aoe

[balmy condor]

So I dropped it

I’m also pretty sure that koji looked at it

[marble hemlock]

ye

[balmy condor]

At the start of the expac

[marble hemlock]

looking at what i posted

1.2k hit doesnt seem too hot

vs 6k envenom DPE and thats not counting the benefit you get from extra poison procs on aoe due to fok

[stoic needle]

have i been wrong about mfd this whole time oh no

[marble hemlock]

not necessarily wrong

its just

mfd doesnt really do much for assa

[balmy condor]

Not always best

[marble hemlock]

as we are a maintenance spec

[balmy condor]

Let’s say

[stoic needle]

i'd already been switching to vigor for tyrann weeks

[marble hemlock]

as our main priority is to keep our spells running, and mfd doesnt really help or speed up that process, it essentially just turns into another envenom

[torpid spoke]

for sludge, you do 1/3 if you do3 pillars?

[hushed sphinx]

Spamming CT during storming week is big brain though

[torpid spoke]

and if you do 4, you do start, 2, 4?

[marble hemlock]

with or without mfd, you will maintain CT and keep up bleeds to sustain energy. so adding mfd into that, just means you get an extra envenom every 30seconds

[balmy condor]

Yup

[marble hemlock]

now

[slow marsh]

How much less should i expect to do realistically vs slice

[torpid spoke]

we should write a bot for Whispr that answers questions when keywords are typed in the chat

[stoic needle]

i feel like it's a bit more than just extra envenoms if you can snipe low hp enemies with it

[marble hemlock]

vigor doesnt really do shit either on aoe

[slow marsh]

Not including shitty tornados

[marble hemlock]

you sustain energy either way, whether you have it or not

but it makes the opener much more consistent and safe, lowering the risk of you starving

[stoic needle]

it prevents overcapping energy as much when you ||rupture snipe||

[marble hemlock]

theres a point to be made about dropping it entirely

and not opening triple garrote

but opening ct/g/g

[stoic needle]

yeah that's what i'm curious about

[marble hemlock]

which is a bit cheaper on the energy, and will provide consistent poison apps on both garrote targets

at which point you could consider running NS over subter

which would be good for aoe, but bad for st

and if you try to optimize a rogue for aoe, youre already playing a losing game, unless it can absolutely excel at it, like it did in s2/s3

[icy crater]

what talents do ppl run on huntsman for parsing?

[marble hemlock]

i would assume the play for trash dmg in m+ would be ns/ds/ct

which was awful to play in bfa, cause we dumped haste as it was a terrible stat, but might be worth a consideration now that haste is actually a good dps stat

esp as necro as you have cheap fillers in case you starve early into the pull

too bad you cant snapshot SBS bleed with NS

[stoic needle]

That would be badass

I'm gonna play around with opening with ct and 2x gar

And maybe fok

[marble hemlock]

itll depend a bit on crit as well

with low crit, garrote as builder seems fine

as the difference of fok cp gen vs garrote cp gen is smaller at low crit values ofc

[charred mango]

for council of blood, how many bleeds is worth having on the alt targets? i know damage isnt important but for the energy regen

[obtuse robin]

do i always hold flag for vend+shiv and vice versa?

[stoic needle]

Use flag on cd

[marble hemlock]

if the off-targets are immune to damage and/or heal back to full like on council, you only want to garrote them, not rupture

[stoic needle]

And shiv on cd

[obtuse robin]

k what about vend and vanish

[stoic needle]

If you know your guilds kill timers exactly then you can save flag if you know it won't lose you a csstb

[charred mango]

okay TY!

[stoic needle]

Cast

Yes try to line up vendetta and vanish

[marble hemlock]

ns/ds/ct simming 220dps higher than subter/mfd/ct on 6t/2min sustained aoe

[fleet whale]

new meta inc

[marble hemlock]

@balmy condor im sorry

[balmy condor]

Lmao

[marble hemlock]

and that is w/o starting with CP on pull

so no 6CP CT opener

[balmy condor]

I’m all for new meta

[marble hemlock]

ns/mfd might be decent i suppose

does fok dpe in sims no longer include poison dmg?

wasnt that a thing in bfa still?

[manic harness]

207 phial dropped boys

it's time to do some real DPS after this valor grind

[stoic needle]

pog

[balmy condor]

Uh thats a koji question more than anything, but I don’t think it does

@fleet anchor

[marble hemlock]

yeah, i cant see it listed as a sub-damage anymore

psure that used to be a thing

[stoic needle]

oh baby

[marble hemlock]

not worth

cuz st

[stoic needle]

not even on fort?

[marble hemlock]

fuck 200 dps on aoe

[grim hawk]

guys is stone legion trinket good for assas?

[marble hemlock]

if it costs you 200dps on st

[stoic needle]

does it?

[marble hemlock]

im gonna say yes

[balmy condor]

It’s ok

[grim hawk]

quick one

213 sheet or 220 legion trinket

wait i should sim

[slender urchin]

On council, is it a ST gain to dot the other bosses?

[stoic needle]

220 legion trinket

sheet music is trash

[marble hemlock]

only 50dps behind

in 5min st sim

ns/ds

:x

[balmy condor]

Garrote

[stoic needle]

i was just simming it lol

[marble hemlock]

id never recommend playing that tho

anyway

time to go back to bed

[stoic needle]

why not

[steep gust]

Dumb question.... For Sire p2, how am I supposed to play it as assassin?

[marble hemlock]

cause it plays terrible

[balmy condor]

Dot everything that lives long enough

[stoic needle]

what about NS vigor

[marble hemlock]

i mean, the entire point of NS is to benefit from max duration finishers

so id either run NS+DS, or not run either

[fleet anchor]

Nah it would kinda be hard to break down.. maybe could break it into different spells but it would be annoying to track.

[marble hemlock]

did i imagine that being a thing in bfa?

[fleet anchor]

Definitely not in BfA

[marble hemlock]

or was it just echo that was listed as a sub-section of fok?

[fleet anchor]

Didn't change anything with that

[steep gust]

Do I fan of knives off sire or am I just using mut?

[fleet anchor]

EB was yeah

[marble hemlock]

mhye

i mean its easy enough to calculate

by just adding 50-80% of the instant poison DPE to fok

per target

[balmy condor]

Fok on 4

[opaque tree]

Venthyr is the strongest covenant as of the update? Was checking the pins, but just wanted to be sure. That includes Zoldyk legendary?

[potent raft]

so with all the venthyr changes and running deeper strat
has the opener changed? Surely we dont need to SnD asap anymore?

[balmy condor]

Single target sims use doomblade, aoe uses ma unless specified

[balmy condor]

It has not changed

That’s in the pins as well

[opaque tree]

a couple months ago, I thought Nightfae was the strongest along with Kyrian? lol

sorry, just kind of coming back after a little break

[visual lake]

I cant see WPS in any raid on dungeon loot. Does that mean ve'nari only option to upgrade?

[balmy condor]

Yes but buffs happen

[balmy condor]

Correct

[visual lake]

dang

The stigia lottery

[opaque tree]

Guess it's time to switch covenants then 😦

[tribal marlin]

you can loot it in ilvl 200 in De Other Side

[visual lake]

Be as well collecting the raid ones first to give myself a better chance of rolling it

[tribal marlin]

but if you want 213+ gotta be venari

[visual lake]

I got 213

[tribal marlin]

:3

[visual lake]

Can i upgrade it higher is my question?

Just gotta luck out i guess

[steep gust]

Is that because MA is highest simming lego for aoe?

[fleet anchor]

I'll see if there's something I can do for the instant stuff. But not totally sure

[balmy condor]

Correct

[marble hemlock]

yeah would certainly be cool to see at a glance, based on envenom uptime etc.

esp looking changes in fok DPE with smth like dashing

[white orchid]

If m+ is a big part of the content you do is staying nightfae for Korayn better then switching to venthyr to do slightly better in raid? or does Venthyr bring somehting good to the table like korayn in m+

[tribal marlin]

Any belivers for 9.1 ptr next week ?

[lament mica]

[tribal marlin]

9.1 ptr is where we will start having fun hahaha

[lament mica]

do not want months of ppl coming into class channels HEY SHOULD I MAKE X LEGGO FOR 9.1 no u fuck

[fleet whale]

Mik do you change your picture to suit whatever covenant you are? lol

[tribal marlin]

Nah I just like Flag icon :3

[balmy condor]

Venthyr is better than korayn

[fleet whale]

wasn't it sepsis before

[visual lake]

Tbh I'm just happy there's not really wrong choice for Rogue, Some classes straight hard stuck with one cov

[tribal marlin]

I like that one too @fleet whale

[fleet whale]

i'll admit the flag icon is really cool

[tribal marlin]

I'll switch back to Sep if I swap Fae for some reason, but I wont do it for Kyrian and Necro 😄

[visual lake]

I started with Venth and rolled Necro cause i hated the first flag

[fleet whale]

did anyone like the first flag? lol

[visual lake]

and I love the noise bone spike makes

"thuuuuump"

[fleet whale]

i wonder if there is someone in this world that prefers the old flag to the new one

[tribal marlin]

people like me who experienced the very first Flag on beta XD

[visual lake]

The old one was always

awful

[fleet whale]

double gcd sucked

AND it costed energy

[visual lake]

the reactivation was stupid

[tribal marlin]

I mean I wouldn't minded the double GCD thingy IF the old Flag was dealing enough damage

[visual lake]

and it was on cgd i think

[mossy quiver]

How are we doing now on ST, better than outlaw?

[fleet whale]

yes

[balmy condor]

Yes

[tribal marlin]

but with the old flag like I could do 45 lashes in Sub with insane WM proc, yet still do no damage xD

[strange python]

it must be all the scaling

kek

[lament mica]

the double GCD def wasn't as painful as being able to miss the 2nd activation and completely lose the haste

can't get over wat a dumb mechanic that was

[stoic needle]

Only true monsters

[fleet whale]

they may have thought the old flag took more "skill"

[visual lake]

Like a worse razor coral

either let me stack it and activate when i want or just auto consume

[fleet whale]

yeah i prefer now that flag works more like pillar of frost

that has extra damage parts

[balmy condor]

Someone earlier said he did

[limber swallow]

someone on MMO champ complained about the changes when they were first announced (the original version of the change gave acrobatic strikes, lul) and they definitely referenced it requiring some skill

[fleet whale]

who lol

[lament mica]

how is this possible? just a memer?

[balmy condor]

Let me find it

[fleet whale]

the older flag had a higher skill cap i guess but it was complete dodo to play

[strange python]

It seems like in mplus assassination is close to outlaw level with none of the rng

[visual lake]

Bone spike felt great on council earlier

[strange python]

I like it

[fleet whale]

new flag feels way better to press

[limber swallow]

all I know was I lost it a lot on sire because I would get greedy with the timing in Phase 1 around blood price..

[thin ingot]

M'lords

what legendary should i craft for M+

[fleet whale]

zold

[balmy condor]

Whoops

[thin ingot]

Thank you M'lord

[balmy condor]

Was in sub

#subtlety message

This was the convo

Close

But wasn’t old flag

[fleet whale]

oh yeah the datamined flag

prolly just some idea blizz had

that somehow made it to the notes

[lament mica]

ya i was gonna say i don't think any human being on the planet preferred old flag lol

[dull fulcrum]

How much haste is , too much haste? or do i just sim

[lament mica]

just sim and no

[fleet whale]

no such thing as too much haste

[tribal marlin]

Have you seen Flag's big daddy ?

[lament mica]

i don't think a single class in the game atm uses any sort of stat weights or stat breakpoints but i could be wrong

[tribal marlin]

a wierd shit named "Slaughter"

[fleet whale]

you mean ambush with deadly poison

[lament mica]

[tribal marlin]

damn dude that was the most awful design I ever seen xD

[fleet whale]

it was kind of interesting for sub

[tribal marlin]

yeah but just because of the conduit

[fleet whale]

but it was a pretty bad ability, and for a replacement ability it should've been stronger

[reef axle]

there something im missing with hateful chain? majority of logs seem to be running it over something like phial

[fleet whale]

there isn't anything wrong with chain

it just isn't as good as phial

but you can use it if it's your best trinket

[lament mica]

213 chain is pretty easy to get

[tribal marlin]

At the end what "could" have happened with Slaughter and Subt ended up happening with Warriors and Condemn

[lament mica]

condemn is a beast of an ability

[fleet whale]

eh, sort of have mixed thoughts on condemn

it basically means arms warrior is just condemn

nothing else matters

[lament mica]

hasn't waarrior been about execute since like forever

in terms of damage

[fleet whale]

goes way too the extreme with condemn

considering you can use it on the first 20% as well

[lament mica]

ya

[balmy condor]

Frost still has shatter cap

[lament mica]

is that mastery or something

[tribal marlin]

an interesting design

[balmy condor]

33% crit

[lament mica]

ah ok, fair enough

[fleet whale]

nah, its to guarantee your ice lance procs

crit

[balmy condor]

^

[fleet whale]

and ice lance crits deal like 4X more damage

or something

[lament mica]

i straight up know nothing about frost

except i saw in a video thewy have good funnel

and they slow stuff

[fleet whale]

well not many people are playing it right now

[stoic needle]

God that flag giving attack range thing would have been

God awful

[fleet whale]

though in theory it can pump

[cursive cloak]

for huntsmen is it better to play subterfuge over MA or not worth?

[fleet whale]

i want to get more crit though, need those seal fate procs

to get more flag stacks

[next shale]

do i put zoldyck on legs or feet?

[fleet whale]

legs cause of more stats

[tribal marlin]

yeah our best stat is probably crit now especially as Venthyr + DS

[stoic needle]

I replaced a pvp haste vers ring with a 220 sd crit vers ring

From 21% to 25% crit

[tribal marlin]

I've seen report of peeps runing 12% haste and sims telling us to still go full crit

[stoic needle]

Big

[fleet whale]

i'm gonna be that rogue and play with vigor instead of DS though

[tribal marlin]

I have hard time going for big crit tho because of PvP gear

[stoic needle]

You zoomer

Its annoying getting this good pvp gear and then wanting to replace it all for m+ gear anyway

It's why I'm not super pressed to pvp more

[lament mica]

just be monk who wants vers anyway

[fleet whale]

WW is falling a little bit

[misty holly]

crit is better than haste now?

[lament mica]

ya the nerfs but if this system stays they can just farm pvp gear this whole xpac

for Bis gear

[next shale]

Hey sorry, if im making doom for raid and zold for P3 sire, do i want just haste/vers on both?

[tribal marlin]

Vigor is objectively not bad if there are regular movement @fleet whale

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s fine

[stoic needle]

It's not really bis gear though

Oh you mean monks

[lament mica]

only 4 pieces of gear that wouldn't be

ya monks

[fleet whale]

vigor is also easier to play with

[balmy condor]

No? Why would it be

[fleet whale]

i just prefer my comfy 170 energy

[slender urchin]

Does anyone else feel personally attacked when you vanish->envenom-mut-mut-envenom and neither crits?

[stoic needle]

Those big ass DS envenoms thooooo

[fleet whale]

meh, if i wanted big crits

i would be sub lol

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

It’s true

Evisc crits

Are the sauce

[slender urchin]

But it’s split into two parts

The shadow damage half

[reef axle]

im still topping dps with vigor, deeper strat would just push me more higher i guess lol

[fleet whale]

too bad Shadowstrike and Evis are like subs only 2 sources of damage

[slender urchin]

A 20k envenom just hits different

[signal gulch]

is flag with lashing scars suppose to only hit twice initially

[fleet whale]

it's suppose to hit 5

[stoic needle]

It seems that the extra lashes are packaged into one big hit

[signal gulch]

oh

[stoic needle]

But maybe I'm imagining things

[slender urchin]

Vigor is ~40 dps lower than DS for me...worth it if you enjoy the play style, and a little more forgiving in some cases (light downtime, non lust pulls)

[stoic needle]

Cuz I get these big ass 10k flag crits

[fleet whale]

when i was on a dummy it def hit's 5 times

but it's a little staggered

but flag on just about any damage meter is weird

and confuses me

[stoic needle]

Agreed

[fleet whale]

like they don't track the damage flag does after using finishers

properly

[signal gulch]

whenever i flag i get 2 different flags that hit once each

both do same amount of damage

[balmy condor]

This is indeed how it works

[fleet whale]

details did not reflect that to me

it said flag hit 5 times each doing like 2-3k damage

[balmy condor]

That’s the initial hit

[fleet whale]

oh you're talking about the other part

yeah that's the part that confuses me

on damage meters

[balmy condor]

Each finisher gets bundled into one lash versus before where it was each combo point

Details is tracking it weirdly I think

[tribal marlin]

imagine only doing 20k crits
https://youtu.be/ZQYPH0lZBUI?t=279

click the link for timestamp

[stoic needle]

Was that 75k

Necrolord mage seems cool

[tribal marlin]

arcane barage

[stoic needle]

[balmy condor]

Oshosi looking at his character select window atm

[stoic needle]

[tribal marlin]

Arcane is like Demo

that kind of wierd shit

[stoic needle]

Why do people not play arcane again?

[tribal marlin]

you don't understand

[slender urchin]

Rerolling brb

[balmy condor]

It’s a little weird to play

You go in and out of “phases”

[fleet whale]

you have to track mana

[balmy condor]

Yeah

Basically you conserve mana

And then you wait for cds

And when you have CDs runni Ng

You just slam

[slender urchin]

Also heavily impacted by actual raid mechanics when you want to turret

[balmy condor]

And burn everything

And then conserve again

[stoic needle]

That sounds lit wtf

[inner granite]

what are the envenom crits as venthyr now? I was getting 20k pretty steady with sbs / doomblade last night

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s fairly normal

[slender urchin]

My highest one I saw tonight in heroic was 25k

[balmy condor]

I think it’s fun as well

[inner granite]

as venthyr or necro?

[stoic needle]

[daring seal]

Quick question if I’m crafting my first assassination lego where do I start. Was checking pins but it’s looking like doom blade fell off?

[slender urchin]

Ven

[tribal marlin]

yeah basically outside of burst dps windows he's doing like 2k dps

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jHvwGKLqR3A1aXpb#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=15&translate=true full log

It's very wierd shit tbh

[stoic needle]

So like a normal mage then

[tribal marlin]

but it has one of the strongest ST burst damage in the game

I mean a fire mage might do maybe idk 3k filler dps maybe more, but an arcane mage is litterally doing less than 1k

[balmy condor]

You mean it skyrocketed?

[tribal marlin]

Like you do no DPS and 10sec every 3mn you do 30k dps xD

[stoic needle]

[slender urchin]

The pins literally still have it as #1...how did it “fall off”

🧐

Arcane reminds me of Sub a little bit

[stoic needle]

Tbh that's what sub should be doing imo

[slender urchin]

Agreed

[stoic needle]

Absolutely fucking blasting with all CDs popped

Dance cdr was a mistake

[slender urchin]

Tomb era Sub with X million damage DFAs every 30s

And then just like AFK in between lmao

Until you did mistress and DFA pulled you through a “miss” puddle

[balmy condor]

WoD had 3 min shadow dance cooldown, and you had a very specific “opener” for your dance

[slender urchin]

WOD sub was so good too. Esp with the trinket that are up your damage and released it

And multi strike rupture advance

[buoyant mauve]

a yo, just got a 200 lashing scars cheeeeeck

[stoic needle]

Why did they move away from that design that sounds awesome

[balmy condor]

No idea

[tribal marlin]

They said they disliked the bursty way the game has taken

if you look at this log

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JvTyxMrfGwmbB863#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=20

The guy did 600k damage in 20sec

It's 1/3 of his overall damage in 4:30

[lament mica]

destro lock was exactly like that last xpac

[tribal marlin]

It's fun but the damage pattern is just really not suitable for real mythic progression. But it can be a niche and if anyday a Fetid 2.0 happen, you pretty much could see some Arcane Mage rising

[slender urchin]

My average DFA on Goroth was 1.26 mil

[cyan echo]

https://www.twitch.tv/nahj/clip/DepressedHappyAxeShadyLulu-NqhYkFui1VrVzKMn?filter=clips&range=24hr&sort=time

does anyone know what hes talking about?

[lament mica]

last xpac with rolling havoc u literally did all ur dam during the duration of the buff+DS

[buoyant mauve]

planning on using theotar for m+. double potency with flag and LP or flag + tea time?

[tribal marlin]

he's talking about the Shadow Blade bug ?

I mean I reported it myself on the PTR

[stoic needle]

Typical blizzard, throwing out the whole idea when they don't like it just a little bit

Sad

[cyan echo]

ah thank you

[stoic needle]

Most likely tea time. I've been using nadjia for this tyrannical week and it's been pretty nice tho

[fleet whale]

so idk if you are all aware but

chain link from torghast buffs flag lol

[stoic needle]

I don't hate thrill seeker as much as I remember

[fleet whale]

so if you are using lashing scars, your flag will chunk in torghast

[queen galleon]

21 lvl cov

need 9 more

[tribal marlin]

Let me explain : Flagellation use to be a Builder in Beta, so it was generating combo points, and acted like a builder regarding Shadow Blade (and SoD). Then they changed it to no longer be a builder, but was still considered as a builder, tho it was not doing initial damage (rather instantly "lashes" the target multiple times)

but when they added an Initial Damage component in 9.0.5, then it was affected by ShadowBlade, so that you could hit a 9k initial hit Flagellation and then it would proc Shadow Blade for another 4500 damage

[stoic needle]

Oh mann

I wish I'd done some pvp with that before it got fixed

[buoyant mauve]

stay strong, I've done lfr and 3 hc bosses so far and I only got 1 renown from it and I'm still pushing ahead

[queen galleon]

I need 30 by tomorrow

tried to farm some 15

went dogshit

[stoic needle]

I'm really glad I went venthyr to begin with

[slender urchin]

I got to 31

[stoic needle]

Started at 21 renown

[slender urchin]

Between yesterday and today

LFR scorned me but heroic and normal were fair

[stoic needle]

I've just been farming renown while farming Phial and boosting

[queen galleon]

I still need some hc bosses but it's eu time so

[buoyant mauve]

oh shit same, only at 26 so far though

[slender urchin]

I got a #1 on council

[tribal marlin]

It still do potent damage to be honest

[queen galleon]

Do you have more chance to drop renow at higher key

or it's just like the same shit

otherwise i'm gonna just spam plaguefall 10

[tribal marlin]

like it hit for 4k on 30% versa targets, this is passive damage on top of "already big" eviscerate of envenoms

[stoic needle]

Idk I did 2 15s and didn't get renown from them

Seems to be the same but I could be wrong

[tribal marlin]

You can basically double crit Env for 10k and Flag doing another round of 4k on top of that, for litterally 28k damage in 2 globals

[stoic needle]

That's pretty ridiculous

[tribal marlin]

Also they forget to fix the SoD bug, even tho I reported it on PTR

[pulsar sluice]

how do i convince my RL to give me pi

they still think sin sucks

[tribal marlin]

Pi is not for you, if you want PI you gotta pay the price :/

[chilly fog]

So is there a breakpoint for when you should using Tempost over Poison Bomb?

[old summit]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stoic needle]

Pump like your life depends on it

[pulsar sluice]

what price @tribal marlin

but i do @stoic needle

did u not see my logs from the other day

[tribal marlin]

What ever your priest is asking for xD

[queen galleon]

are we like a good pi target now ?

feels like lock is still in front

[stoic needle]

Always in m+, it really depends on the fight in raids. You need good uptime on a 2nd target

[tribal marlin]

We're ok, but not the best

[stoic needle]

Who is better still

Don't you dare say hunter

[strange python]

I only play The vampire covenant and I'm always looking for a new member of the family and I think I just found it in assassination rogue

[tribal marlin]

DK during Army, Hunter during WS is probably still more dps per PI than Rogue as well

Mage in general

[queen galleon]

quick question, in entry phase, you want to vanish -> envemon -> mut -> enve

right ?

[tribal marlin]

Shaman in general

[queen galleon]

as st

[tribal marlin]

Probably warlock as well considering how much damage they do compare to what their scuffed sims lied to us xD

Assa is one of these who'd like to get PI but wont. (Compare to OL and Sub who litterally don't care about PI)

maybe 5% additionnal dps if you PI during Vendetta

But a DK would get 5% additionnal dps with twice less PI uptime😄

basically

[stoic needle]

Considering how much higher we sim than dk now is it still worth it to PI them

(say no)

[tribal marlin]

haha yes I'm talking about absolute value

Like we will get 400 dps with 4 PI, they will get 400 dps as well, with only 2

[stoic needle]

[tribal marlin]

Outside of Army you don't want to PI a dk

I'd say that between Mage / Rogue and Hunter it's probably close, my coin on the Hunter still

And warlock it's like big questionmark

[stoic needle]

Tbh I wish they would remove pi from the game

It's just not good in the long run for the health of the game imo

[tribal marlin]

why ?

[stoic needle]

The rank 1 log should not be 'who gets the most pi and fae simp'

[tribal marlin]

I don't see the problem to be honest

I don't see the problem especially now that you can sort PI'd logs out

We're a Raid TEAM, we buff each other

Mage give arcane buff

Priest can give Power infusion

[main warren]

yeah not even close to the same lmao

like what is that comparison

[tribal marlin]

if Power infusion is better on someone else it make sense giving it to him

[stoic needle]

It would be better if there were more power infusion level buffs to give out

[main warren]

pi is basically lust on a 2 minute cd

[queen galleon]

Most of rogue #1 were not even Pied

anyway

[main warren]

and u just compared to to a fire and forget raid huff

like trally

[stoic needle]

But just priests having pi causes drama and makes logs weird

[main warren]

really*

imagine if u had to give ur vendetta to a mage

[tribal marlin]

Yeah I compare to mage because it's the same thing

[main warren]

No it's not

[tribal marlin]

buffing each other to be stronger

[unreal crag]

Is necro good for mut? Wanna raid as mut and m+ as law. Should I go be venth or necro? (New rogue hit 60 today)

[tribal marlin]

Like what's the problem of giving PI to the guy who is the best target for ?

[main warren]

no one else has to give up a cd like that to someone else to "help" them.

[tribal marlin]

You are not "giving up"

[main warren]

yeah you are

[queen galleon]

If you prefer m+ go Necro if you pref Raid go venthyr

[tribal marlin]

your DPS cooldown belong to the raid

[main warren]

no they dont

[tribal marlin]

Well ok let's me add nuances.

[unreal crag]

@queen galleon well I prefer both lmao. I wanna know if necro is viable in raid as Mut

[queen galleon]

It is

[tribal marlin]

My raid team is ALL being ONE. We're a team, we play to kill bosses and we do what ever has to be done to kill boses.

[queen galleon]

every cov is viable in raid

[fleet whale]

the flag torghast powers are kind of crazy now tbh

[marsh yew]

so you think a 5% bonus to intellect to the entire raid is the same as a 20 second 25% haste buff with a 2 minute cd which can only be used on a single target? I really can't agree with that

[tribal marlin]

So if it implies having 1 guy that get EVERY SINGLE LOOT because his class is busted, giving him ALL the buffs

[fleet whale]

you can get like a 60% haste buff and it lasts like 40 seconds lol

[tribal marlin]

and having 5 people basically playing to buff 1

if it's the optimal way of dealing with an encounter, then let it be

Again we play to kill bosses. If you go in raid for something else, then I agree with your statement

[main warren]

Are u the type of guy who does tank damage but celebrates the kill anyway because "team effort"?

[marsh yew]

so would you reroll your spec then if assassination rogue became unviable since it

's in the best interest of your raid

[stoic needle]

You know new flag is just one of the torghast powers with a damage buff right

[queen galleon]

Pi is supposed to go to the most efficient, that's it like no rocket science

[tribal marlin]

ok let me show you something

[fleet whale]

the one that doubles your haste from flag is really good

i mean 60% haste is crazy

[queen galleon]

I'm kinda thinking the same way as mikihisa

it's a raid cd

[main warren]

It shouldn't be

[queen galleon]

bcs it's supposed to go on raid favor

[main warren]

Full stop

[queen galleon]

If you use a cd that's that important for someone to just be happy parsing

then well

good shit

but that's clearly a dumb way to use it

[marsh yew]

I'm fine with it as a raid cd I just think warcraft logs should separate the logs instead of just identifying which people used PI.

[queen galleon]

I mean, even if people get Pi and record log

[marsh yew]

granted like someone said most #1 parses for assassination rogue dont even use PI

[queen galleon]

most of 1# are not even PIed

[tribal marlin]

our SLG first kill :
https://i.imgur.com/nuZjmc3.png

See this 2 guys, you think they are "that kind of guy who does tank damage but celebrate the victory but litterally did nothing "

[stoic needle]

For now

[tribal marlin]

right ?

These two guys are the most important player in our raid

They are our raid leaders.

[queen galleon]

that was the same in 9.0.2

[main warren]

You have missing braincells

A lot of them

[queen galleon]

most of #1 were not PIed

[main warren]

like a whole lot

[tribal marlin]

They do no damage, they give up on A LOT of their dps, so that WE can litterally put our brain on the desk and blindly do damage.

[stoic needle]

I just think it should be a separate leaderboard

With pi/without pi

[marsh yew]

^^^

[stoic needle]

Like classic with world buffs

[queen galleon]

yeah i mean

[fleet whale]

would cause too many tears

[queen galleon]

why not

[fleet whale]

especially in this very channel

[stoic needle]

[queen galleon]

Pi shouldn't even exist

tbh

[stoic needle]

I agree lol

[marsh yew]

I like PI 😦

[stoic needle]

It's just a source of drama

And a gold farming strategy for priests

[tribal marlin]

I mean you would not be the first one here to act like this dude, I fighted other guys like you and you all don't understand what's make good and bad player when it comes to killing Mythic Raid bosses

[stoic needle]

[fleet whale]

idk it's not like worldoflogs back in the day filtered out parses with rogues spoonfeeding tricks of the trade to other dps

since tricks used to give a damage increase

[stoic needle]

Maybe they should have

[main warren]

You are talking about a whole lot of nothing

And I suspect most people just give up and move on because you make zero sense

[celest ruin]

wait so you can literally make a priest and sell your PI to pugs?

[marsh yew]

there's two types of rogues the type who puts on zoldycs for denathrius then there's the type who keeps on the doomblade leggo 🙂

[celest ruin]

how did i not think of that

[tribal marlin]

No I'm trying to explain you that being able to give PI on approriate target is a good thing.

[stoic needle]

I totally get what miki is saying

[fleet whale]

i mean PI is obvious a beneficial buff for raid

[main warren]

yeah and I'm telling you that giving up your own damage cd to someone else feels like shit

It is beyond degenerate

[stoic needle]

WTS PI 10k/boss pst

[tribal marlin]

And you disagree because you are somehow stuck into a wierd dps race rather than focused and what really matter in Raid environnement : Killing Bosses.

[queen galleon]

Disco priest ?

[fleet whale]

maybe it's thematic for priests to do that

[main warren]

Disc isn't the only spec with it

Chief

[stoic needle]

Yeah that's only really a problem for shadowpriests