assassination

[balmy condor]

master poisoner is bad

exsang is really bad

venom rush is pretty bad

[fading acorn]

what about pvp

[old snow]

its pretty good in pvp, speacially with the new buff

[balmy condor]

pvp is master poisoner nightstalker mfd/deeper, alac, pb

I think

and then go for big even

[old snow]

you want elaborate

[balmy condor]

idk, that's kekknis

[old snow]

dont go master poisoner

[pseudo hamlet]

Yeah, was just wondering about MA/Subt and EP/Blindside for Raiding/M+ 😄

[balmy condor]

makes sense

don't care about wound poison

[old snow]

you care about wound poison, its just % on wound you get from mp is lower then dmg from elaborate

[balmy condor]

subt?

[old snow]

with it you get to do fun stuff like this

https://www.twitch.tv/kekknis/clip/IgnorantCloudyMarjoramMcaT

[balmy condor]

that's interesting

[old snow]

nighstalker isnt good, its only 25% and only on one nevenom

and subterfuge gives you empowered garrote

[balmy condor]

I guess so

I don't pvp

[fading acorn]

lol nice you killed that guy pretty quick

[balmy condor]

so it's all gibberish to me

[old snow]

you get the setup really often

[fading acorn]

what legendary are you using for pvp

[old snow]

master assassin

[fading acorn]

i already have one made but its got vers and mastery is that bad?

[old snow]

its good enough for you to test assa in pvp and see if its worth for you toinvest inmore haste gear honestly

[fading acorn]

how much vers you got

[old snow]

30%

[fading acorn]

dam

[brisk sedge]

what potions are the best for raids and m+?

[balmy condor]

Run this under your import in an advanced sim https://pastebin.com/0CnXcRR1

[brisk sedge]

in general though, not looking to improve my own dps, just want to know what's worth making for selling:) and i don't even know which potions there are so i thought i'd might ask:)

@balmy condor thanks anyway!

[balmy condor]

then that would be a question for #wow-general and addons like TSM, since TSM will provide you with pricing information for your server

each servers auction house is slightly different, so that's just market research

[hollow zephyr]

Best slot for Zold. Is this still the best one for raid and mythic +

[balmy condor]

leg, yes

[brisk sedge]

fair enough! thanks:)

[hollow zephyr]

Just incase the buff changed stuff. With how other legendaries reacted.

Also why is legs the best slot

[balmy condor]

5% all ability doesn't change any evaluation, it just adds some extra damage :)

legs has more stats than boots

and there's some meh legs

[hollow zephyr]

!stat

!stats

[prisma monolith]

**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery

[sinful island]

Phial of putrefaction was bis trinket right?

[balmy condor]

yes

[hollow zephyr]

@balmy condor what’s better vers or crit wow head and icy say crit

This says Vers

[balmy condor]

=> means equal or greater

they're interchangable

[sinful island]

[hollow zephyr]

I know what it means. I just don’t know why those guides are different from that one.

I have 26% crit and 9% vers

[balmy condor]

they aren't different

[willow oracle]

You could sim for yourself. The difference is really small (crit being best for me here)

[balmy condor]

^

[sinful island]

@hollow zephyr how much haste do you have?

[late raven]

Guys, in M+ whats the opener for AOE with MA? Thanks in advance 🙂

[hollow zephyr]

8%

[sinful island]

lul

[balmy condor]

gar gar gar fok

[sinful island]

you should mind more about that

[hollow zephyr]

I’m working on it

[sinful island]

not crit vs vers xD

[celest ruin]

anyone tried raiding with doomblade?

[raven egret]

literally just ignore stats exist and sim

[hollow zephyr]

Think I should use double haste

[raven egret]

they are visual effects

[balmy condor]

you can't double a stat on a legendary

[pseudo hamlet]

"Only" 150dps lower in assa compared to my BIS Sub! Which is awesome because I don't really like Sub and I love Assa 😄 Should be much easier to get the numbers from sims, especially when you don't have that much time on the boss itself(bleeds and poisons!)

[winter gale]

@pseudo hamlet Exactly that imo as well 😂

[pseudo hamlet]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[autumn tiger]

Poisons and bleeds are best :)

[dull path]

are these the ones u use for pvp aswell or pve?

[old snow]

its for pvp

for pve you dont want mfd

[dull path]

aight, thanks

[reef axle]

only fight i found sin decent was huntsman, outside execute, still see sub being much more efficient with numbers

[balmy condor]

Actually switch into CT and that’s your m+ build pretty much

[old snow]

of for m+ yes, i was thinking in single target context like for raiding

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[drowsy tangle]

when using shiv should pool energy or use it on CD?

[balmy condor]

Lethal+ wps if you run 2

[balmy condor]

You should do both ideally

[frozen jasper]

Wps is best right? So with niya burrs we want to use that one ?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Lp is good too though

Not really an end all be all

[primal turret]

You think assa will be better than outlaw in denathrius?

[balmy condor]

Considering phase 3 is the only phase that really matters, and that’s a lot of execute and movement

Yes, sin is probably the better progression spec

[primal turret]

Should be good in phase 2 too with subterfuge and garrote on denathrius and the sword

[balmy condor]

Not as good as outlaw on that

But better than sub, yeah

[amber quail]

Fast curiosity:legendaries chart is still the same also with this buff?

[limber lion]

https://gyazo.com/b56b8b4ebd98e442b5e4682c35d9d138
lmao just one-phased heroic Shriekwing. Or like, no intermission whatsoever. It's that 5% buff that did it. :'') not really

Saves almost a minute when you one phase it. Crazy

[limber lion]

Zoldyck bis legendary generally.

[shy axle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ugGBP8WtaTxJi8mSVa1T2d weird it sims that much tbh, why is the 2nd best conduit 100 dps better thank the "normal" first?

[limber lion]

Your comparing a fan of knives conduit to a conduit that actually does something.

You literally do not press fan of knives in your single target rotation, so you get 0% value out of the conduit

See how it sims similarly to your Planned Execution - that's because neither of them do anything.

[shy axle]

ah yeah bro thanks

i misclicked the picture

[limber lion]

Try simming Well-Placed Steel.

That's generally the best potency conduit.

[shy axle]

yeah i thought i picked that one

but the picture wasn`t that one

[winter gale]

Whats the approximate difference between r2 and r4 Zoldick? Im 200+ behind sub in sims but I have r2 leggo

[plain thistle]

probably something like 45-60 dps

[winter gale]

Ty ty!

[iron orchid]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pB2DXSJRW8Ne86PyHebrcN

Still need them 226 daggers 😢

[plain thistle]

damn, nice rings

[iron orchid]

got NW one this morning

[balmy nebula]

what do you think about niya's last soulbind? should we sacrifice potency conduit to take burrs or not? if we do that which potency do you think better, lethal poison or wps? talkin about raidin btw

[plain thistle]

yes, burrs is OP

wps

[vestal wren]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[vestal wren]

zoldy is feet i assume, rank 2 to 4 is less than 1%

a bit more if you go for legs

[winter gale]

I went for legs as that one is suggested

[vestal wren]

ah fair, i wasn't sure whats the best slot

[tight kraken]

Zoldyck even for m+`?

Noice, gonna give HoA a go now with zoldyck

[spice spire]

Deï 😔

[rocky ruin]

does the enemy need to walk in the burrs trap or not?

[iron orchid]

Just upgraded a random Conduit, got a lethal poison upgrade to 213, my simDPS went 4 dmg up

wanna cry

[plain thistle]

[fading wigeon]

Yeah that's a bad lock and hunter lol

[sick scarab]

so.. BURRS is the way i suppose

[plain thistle]

yes, one of the reasons why NF was recommended on some guides

[strange python]

so in m+ when doin trash is it ideal to sped cps on ruptures after 3 mobs?

and just refresh CT when its about to fall off?

[iron orchid]

on more than 6, i would say pressing CT is really valuable

maybe more than 5

but you have to get that energy regen through Venomous wounds

so Rupture casts are mandatory

And remember that CT doesn't refresh alacrity

So you have to be careful

[strange python]

makes sense....my sustained aoe was lookin good on some dummies...i did more than 3 ruptures tho

[iron orchid]

When entering a new pack, you would have 3 ~4 garrotes and at least 2 ruptures running

so I think you could spam some CTS

[strange python]

gotcha

[austere steppe]

Does anyone know if Shiv has any impact on burrs dmg?

[iron orchid]

but once those garrotes fall off, you'd have to either vanish 3*garrote

of just reapply some bleeds for regen

[iron orchid]

Imma test it out, but i guess it does have an impact

[hollow escarp]

so based on the limited logs, it looks like burrs is 4% of overall dps with like 17% uptime

can't wait to test it myself

[drifting cloud]

cant wait till it gets nerfed

[strange python]

i really wish changing conduits didnt cost the energy....makes changing specs for different aspects of the game a pain in the ass

[fading wigeon]

Expect first strike to get nerfed first lol

[tulip osprey]

it'd be nice if they just remembered conduits per spec, seems like a no brainer

[fading wigeon]

Blizzard has gone out of the way to make everything not fun. Including those stupid charges and having to go back to sanctum to make changes

[tulip osprey]

or at least using 1 energy lets you change any conduits for 2 min or something so 1 per overall adjustment instead of 1 per conduit

[fading wigeon]

Or just remove the who need for charges

It adds nothing but frustration to the game

[vestal wren]

i think there are a lot of things that need some qol changes

[strange python]

what I read from the pinned is that sub and assa are almost the same damage wise, how is assa compared to outlaw in M+?

[vestal wren]

but i would not say that blizz does everything on purpose

[versed mica]

outlaw still way better lmao

[strange python]

sheeeiiit okay

[versed mica]

it's fine for keys under 15 doe

sin I mean

[strange python]

nice, that's what I wanted to hear, only took them a few months 😄

[versed mica]

From what Whispyr said, sin was already decent in M+ before the most recent 5% buff

[strange python]

what? damn and I was playing sub all the time

[versed mica]

now it's even better, probably better than sub maybe?

[sacred sand]

oil / stone on daggers?

[tulip osprey]

i think oil single target stones aoe

[dry shoal]

Outlaw here who loved assassination in the past, hows the buff doing?

[strange python]

from what I read here it looks good now

[thick onyx]

I wish they would do more interesting changes though

tbh i just cba pressing slice and dice, give auto refresh back pls

[dry shoal]

Is it outplaying the other rogue specs?

[thick onyx]

Close to sub on single target, behind outlaw on cleave

Playable now at least

[vestal wren]

assassination had azerite that helped with aoe in bfa, it only got a slight buff to aoe in the transition to sl so it won't be insane at it. Thos its quite good in cleave

[strange python]

loved the slice and dice refresh back then

[tacit pebble]

man i played this stupid spec on a whim last night for reclear and didn't do much research, just kinda copied the decently ranked logs

why are they using ambush in opener, god damn baited

[lament aurora]

ambush

[worthy heart]

heyo does anybody know how much is it from r1 to r4 in soul ashes?

[worthy heart]

i love you

thanks alot

[wet condor]

im confused, at R30, niya kick stuff or spiked burrs

[ornate raptor]

i enjoyed the kick for pvp

for pve the spiked

[open reef]

Kick for pvp maybe m+ if you interupt a lot

Skiped on raids for sure

[wet condor]

true

for bosses kick stuff is useless d

[open reef]

How many bosses got abilities to kick ? 0 +/-

[wary ice]

Even if theres 1

You'd be competing with so many other NF for the kick

[worthy heart]

tonight im going to raid as assa for the meme

i have a 187dagger still, wish me luck

[wary ice]

do you have 2?

[worthy heart]

YES!

the other one is 200

[wary ice]

no luck needed; have fun

[cobalt bramble]

do u guys know if i can somwhat transform legendary bracers into legendary ring or do i need to craft a new one?

[proper sage]

craft a new one

[cobalt bramble]

well fuck

[proper sage]

or tell blizz that u crafted the wrong legendary

[stoic needle]

Just keep the one you have

[proper sage]

and hopefully they refund back

[stoic needle]

It's not going to be enough of a difference to warrant a recraft

[cobalt bramble]

oh okay

but can we change stats

with missives

[stoic needle]

No

Still not worth a recraft

[cobalt bramble]

cuz i have master assassin with versa mast and wanted to test new assa

[stoic needle]

100% not worth a recraft

[cobalt bramble]

oh

thanks !

[wary ice]

I made my MA w/ Verse Crit like an idiot; if it makes you feel any better

probably going to end up remaking it as verse mast at some point, gotta do something with all this ash

[green belfry]

$$$ for the legy crafters

[wary ice]

lol yeah i have Zoldyks, finality, and celerity at 225; cant afford to upgrade any to 235 yet i havent been doing boosts for gold 😭

[cobalt bramble]

i just did cuz i wanted to pvp a bit and outlaw is ... you know in pvp

so im off spec sub but sub is so boring for me

[empty cradle]

man i wish instead of bringing back rogue snd

they just brought back each specs artifact as baseline

those felt so nice to press

[strange trail]

Does anyone knows if The assassination Mastery works on trinkts that do poison damage?

[spice spire]

They do not

[strange trail]

Sad

[wary ice]

Poison damage doesnt exist its nature damage from poisons

which is pretty much limited to Deadly/wounding

so no

[empty cradle]

doesnt shiv boost the damage from flayedwing?

[wary ice]

Shiv increases nature damage

thats why you try and envenom (and not refresh bleeds) during it

[strange trail]

Só shic boost The damage drom NW and PF trinkets?

[spice spire]

Iirc shiv doesn’t interact with flayed wing but I’m not 100% on that one. I know mastery doesn’t apply to flayedwing though

[strange trail]

Só shiv*

[wary ice]

that I honestly dont know

but mastery is limited to Assa flagged bleeds and poisons

[tacit pebble]

Shiv is whitelist only same as mastery

[spice spire]

I’m 90% sure it doesn’t

Sepsis made the whitelist for shiv

[wary ice]

my general rule of thumb is if its in the spell book, its affected else, probably not

[strange python]

How hard is Assas to master?

And... In RBG's, can i solo kill a tank 1v1?

And is Kyrian the only option for Assa?

[iron orchid]

Probably better option for pvp, but most covenants are viable, within 2-3% dps at max

[spice spire]

Kyrian and NF are both very good. Other two are also fine

[rocky ruin]

Can someone explain burrs we throw a trap and that trap does a dot or does the enemy need to walk in it?

[iron orchid]

I'd say, it is not that hard, you have to understand how dots work very precisely, and focus on small details that impact your dps

[strange python]

I'm willing to learn it all

[iron orchid]

the way it is tooltipped, i think the enemy has to walk in it

[iron orchid]

You could basically just hang out around this channel, and find most of the info and tips you need

Best tip : Listen to Whispyr

[strange python]

Hmm

Thanks!

[rocky ruin]

@iron orchid okay sometimes i see we throw the trap and that does a dot, but i saw too that this trap explode or appear and disappear

[iron orchid]

Yeah noticed some weird interactions too

Imma try it some more

and see for myself

[strange python]

Burrs/Poison hmm

[stray ivy]

in M+ are u guys usually last place at end of run

[iron orchid]

Nah, but probably because my mates aren't at their optimal pace because i don't burst packs hard enough

[spice spire]

It depends on who/what I run with. I’m usually behind our frost mage/boomkin/UHDK/marksman but can usually go ahead of everyone else.

[knotty rampart]

Niyas burrs or potency conduit?

[high nacelle]

sims tell me Burrs

by 2%

[fervent beacon]

I outdps a fire mage and boomkin when I ran PF 13 last week and it was my first time playing sin in key...meanwhile they played their spec since launch

[thin whale]

Godlike

[frosty bridge]

Says more about them than you to be fair :p

[rapid tree]

What talents do you guys run for raid?

[tired adder]

My RL just say me no for CN in sin 😦

[strange python]

Blindside/Elaborate Planning depending on boss
Master Assassin
Vigor/Deeper Strat
Cheat Death
40 talents are a toss up
Alacrity
Poison Bomb

[rapid tree]

See I am the guild master and raid leader for my guild. Been playing outlaw and we’re 9/10 heroic and wanted see how assassination is doing especially with the buff and I played it all of last xpac

[brittle pawn]

So do it

[worldly bridge]

are pins up to date ? i want to roll sin but im basically a Sub otp. Feed me with knowledge bois

bloodmallet says Zoldyck is 3rd for ST quite behind dashing Scoundrel but i hear everyone talking about zoldyck

[strange python]

Hello everyone ! What are your opinions on ASSA with the buff?

[spice spire]

Zoldyck is the best all around. Zoldyck is huge in cleave fights (think altimor, stone legion) and is extremely comparable in pure ST so that’s why everyone says to make it

[strange python]

Over the 3 other specs

[spice spire]

Worst spec of the three but completely viable

If it’s your favorite spec, welcome home.

[strange python]

still worst spec with the buff? On single target?

[spice spire]

It will be huge on a few fights. If you check pins, it’s behind sun by about 2% now

Sub*

[worldly bridge]

Many people argue Sin is the new go to for ST / 2-3 cleave / movement fights due to mechanics when you can't maintain high uptime on boss

[worldly bridge]

thx for the clarification. Does Zoldyck change talents ? Thinking about blindside to further emphasis on execute

[stoic needle]

I'd agree with this

[spice spire]

Zoldyck doesn’t.
Blindside is the go-to rn to smooth out the energy curve

Currently on raid, I run:
Blindside
Subterfuge(stone legion, altimor, sun king)/MA rest
Vigor
Cheat Death
Lmao
Alacrity
Poison Bomb / Crimson tempest (Sun King Only)

[strange python]

Where can i find an update "guide" or simulation of what the buff brings to assa ?

please

[cosmic prism]

has raid bots been updated for sin buffs?

[spice spire]

For stone legion, I also say that on heroic+ where you’ll have an ad up a lot of the time, where on normal you won’t. On normal just do MA

[spice spire]

[stoic needle]

Blindside/ma for st, EP/subterfuge for cleave. Vigor is usually bis, deeper strat will be good in later tiers with more gear. Elusiveness is better than cheat death by far. Alacrity is the only viable talent in it's tier sadly. CT theoretically would be good in aoe but there isn't any fights where you have a 2nd target up enough and it matters enough to make it better than PB.

[spice spire]

And yes, raidbots has been updated to all buffs

[strange python]

Thanks

[stoic needle]

In all the fights where CT would be good there's a large enough single target focused period to make it not worth, sadly

[frail fossil]

i hope u trolling with elusiveness

[stoic needle]

Like I could maybe see it on huntsman and sun king but there it's iffy

[spice spire]

Sun king 😡. Legitimately the only fight CT is even usable on, and that can change if your comp doesn’t have 4 affliction locks

[stoic needle]

???? How is a 30% damage reduction not good? Leeching is useless and so is cheat death

If cheat procs ur wiping

[frail fossil]

how is cheat death useless

[oblique flare]

you can still die through it

while elusiveness helps your healers

[brittle pawn]

people in here have some interesting fucking theories

[stoic needle]

If cheat procs, you're wiping, it's not gonna save u

[frail fossil]

u can kill ur partner on slidgefist

ands till live

like

[spice spire]

Not necessarily a wipe if chest procs.

[stoic needle]

Don't kill your partner?

[frail fossil]

it's obv superior

[stoic needle]

Just do the mechanics

[frail fossil]

i'm jooking lmfao

[spice spire]

I mean, sometimes people are boneheads on prog

[frail fossil]

but mm huntsman last phase

u dont soak sinseeker

[daring pecan]

???

[frail fossil]

and let the guy die

[stoic needle]

God damnit

[daring pecan]

cheat death useless? o.O

[frail fossil]

cheat death is big

[daring pecan]

holy crap, is today nuclear take day?

[frail fossil]

cheat death on hungering 📈

[stoic needle]

Like it's not useless useless but I would rather have a 30% damage reduction cd on a 15 second cool down instead almost all the time

[brittle pawn]

waste of energy

if your healers cant heal you, youre wiping

[stoic needle]

That's just objectively not true

[brittle pawn]

just as fucking stupid as your take

[stoic needle]

No it's not

[dusky umbra]

having MFD for quick Slice refresh inst a option? I find that the CD for MFD fits perfectly

[stoic needle]

It's nice for qol but strictly worse for dps

[sick cradle]

wait, you think cheat death is worse for dps?

[stoic needle]

If you do the mechanics on bosses your cheat death should almost never proc. If you do everything right and it still procs the rest of your raid is probably dead too

No, MFD is worse for dps

[sick cradle]

ahh, ok

[dusky umbra]

but shouldnt be by much since u do have more 5 points to spend elsewhere

[stoic needle]

I could totally see it on sludgefist if you don't trust your partner but you can still get one shot through cheat death

It's by a lot, sim it

Over 100 dps

[dusky umbra]

y probably in sims its correct

but since u are not 100% uptime on boss

[stoic needle]

Like if you take a huge hit and get one shot, cheat death can still not save you. If you die due to raid damage, your healers are probably oom, in which case elusiveness would've saved them Mana

But you shouldn't be taking huge hits in the first place

[spice spire]

Or if your partner fucks you on council of blood. Or sin seeker from huntmaster, or hungering shitrng. Or healing reduction during goliaths on stone legion and denathrius healing reduction.

There’s actually a lot of mechanics that could potentially kill you and not wipe

[stoic needle]

Also elusiveness feint will reduce damage from things you can't cloak nor evasion

[sly crystal]

you dont have to spec in eluv to have that dng reduce...

[stoic needle]

Uh yes you do

Because base feint doesn't work on many things

They've gutted our defensives this expansion

Half of the shit in raids can't be mitigated with cloak feint or evasion

[brittle pawn]

name 4 things in raid elusiveness will benefit you for

[stoic needle]

Literally every damaging mechanic in the raid? It's just a flat 30% DR dude how is it hard to understand how that's good? Shriekwing blood pools, huntsman sinseeker, xymox passive aoe, hungering succ, miasma, laser, and orbs, council passive aoe, denathrius blood price, sun king assassin teleport attack, literally everything on inerva, sludgefist roar, literally everything on slg

[abstract flicker]

short question, is the specc viable now with the buff of today?

[stoic needle]

Yes

[brittle pawn]

90% of that shit is already covered by feint

[stoic needle]

No it's not

[strange python]

So right now I have 3800 Soul Ash

I'm stuck on spending my soul ash for Zoldyck Insignia or Doomblade.

what do you guys think?

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck

[strange python]

i also pvp that's why this is a tough choice lol

[stoic needle]

A lot of those raid damage effects are targeted on you and don't get reduced by feint

[rough storm]

So is assa now viable or still bad ? 😄

[stoic needle]

[rough storm]

aight

[stoic needle]

If you have MA you can use that for sin pvp it's arguably better right now

[strange python]

I have 190 MA ring

[warped junco]

if i may inerject on the feint thing. being dps you're the last thing the healers focus on, being that you wanna do dps means you need to stay alive so a flat out defensive is better than a one shot yolo every so often

[stoic needle]

That's definitely good enough. Sin has amazing burst with MA

[strange python]

So yeah. i see a few sin rogues on r.io that run doomblade instead of zoldyck and that's why I ask.

[stoic needle]

They're trolling

[strange python]

They're like top 10 though lmfao

[worthy heart]

well i played torghast as sin and it was kinda good, looking forward to tonights raid

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck is the best pve legendary for sin full stop

Just because they're good doesn't mean they're right

[worthy heart]

can some1 tell me opener pls

[brittle pawn]

no

[strange python]

I guess my thing is this.
if mobs are dying fast enough, do you really need the 30% bleed damage on 30% health?

[stoic needle]

Also r.io gear is misleading because it just snapshots based on what you're wearing when you log off

[worthy heart]

ok

[brittle pawn]

its literally in every guide

[stoic needle]

They won't be dying that fast the higher keys you do, and it's still 30% extra damage for 30% of their hp regardless of how long it takes to get through that 30%

Having an execute on literally every mob in a key with 0 effort is actually insane

[thin cargo]

It's great, like it was in legion

[normal mist]

As a venthyr, do I choose the dauntless duelist end row and drop lethal poisons or just keep both wps and lp and end up in "familiar predicaments"?*

[stoic needle]

You want dauntless duelist

[steep hamlet]

how bad is 14% haste? Im using vigor just because I feel like Im running out of energy way too often

[stoic needle]

You would be using vigor regardless as it's bis right now

[steep hamlet]

Oh I see

[stoic needle]

14% is right around when sin's rotation started to feel good for me

[steep hamlet]

I see, Im sub main but with the new buffs coming through and just being a bit bored I was gonna grab zoldyck and just try it out

[quasi scroll]

trying to de-mothball my rogue, 199 now with 10% base haste. What's "normal" haste for assassin? 10% seems way low

and feels terrible

[shy dust]

Whatever sims best with your gear

[stoic needle]

Dps wise there's no 'normal' amount but like i said it's around 15% where it starts to 'feel' good

I have 22% atm and I still want more lmao

[upbeat umbra]

Blindside can help make it "feel" smoother too with lower haste.

[stoic needle]

Feel is very subjective because even if it feels bad your abilities will hit harder and crit more because of the high amounts of other stats

[quasi scroll]

yeah

[steep hamlet]

also zoldyck is still bis im assuming?

[quasi scroll]

i think I'm at like 25% mastery

[shy dust]

It’s the Best legendary yes

[quasi scroll]

so it still works, just, I don't like the feel

[shrewd helm]

You want about 20% haste

[quasi scroll]

cool

thanks

[sick scarab]

i dont understand the logic behind burrs tree do more dps and double potency tree

[shy dust]

Why

[quasi scroll]

at least I'm not imagining it being low

[sick scarab]

i really really dont the understand the logic

[shy dust]

Sin potencies are bad

[sick scarab]

the burr way give more dps and more surviability..

[shy dust]

Burrs does more damage than any of our potencies

[sick scarab]

it is a nonsense LOL

[shy dust]

Yeah it wasn’t nerfed in beta

[sick scarab]

it shopuld be under double potency tree

[shrewd helm]

20% is about where sims show other stats as being better.

Rotation feels super smooth at 20% as well

[shy dust]

So you have all the gear at 226 ilvl

And can make a decision on which secondary stat to chase

?

[sleek otter]

how does burrs feel in pvp anyone know?

[tacit forum]

I'm 210 with 21% haste

[shrewd helm]

^

[tacit forum]

not that hard to get to 20

[shrewd helm]

^^^x2

[upbeat umbra]

is that 20% base or buffed

[formal ermine]

Niya: Burrs or Poison?

[tacit forum]

Burrs

[shy dust]

If all your gear doesn’t have haste

[sleek otter]

burrs Bam

[shy dust]

This is why it’s dumb to chase a certain number

Ilvl is very strong

Just sim your bags

[shy dust]

Burrs

[shy dust]

Probably not good it can break cc

[quasi scroll]

( Pawn: v1: "Khalshazar - Assassination (Raidbots)": Class=Rogue, Spec=Assassination, Agility=2.9, CritRating=1.17, HasteRating=1.38, MasteryRating=0.96, Versatility=1.03, Dps=14.58, OffHandDps=1.74 )

[barren crater]

So with the buffs, Assa is relatively close to Sub now? or did I misunderstand that in the pinned message

[shy dust]

Don’t use pawn

Pawn is dumb

[quasi scroll]

I don't use pawn

[shy dust]

And should not be trust

[quasi scroll]

was just getting stat weights

[shy dust]

Or stat weights

[quasi scroll]

🤨

[shy dust]

Stat weights are very unreliable

I’m not sure why you would ever use them

[tacit forum]

I like to call Burrs as PB 2.0

[shy dust]

Given you can sim gems, enchants, and food

[stoic needle]

Bad, it breaks cc

[shrewd helm]

Which is why I said you want around 20%.

Myself am only running 19% atm because I have better crit/vers gear.

[shy dust]

Yes but telling people to chase a certain number is dumb

[stoic needle]

But that 20% doesn't mean anything

[shy dust]

You wear what your best set is

Which is determined by simming With raidbots

[stoic needle]

Haste % is literally just for feels

[shy dust]

Ilvl and primary stat is still king currently

[tacit forum]

Honestly 15% starts to get much better for st

[upbeat umbra]

I've got 16% and it feels fine

[tacit forum]

Yeah

[shy dust]

I have 13%

And sim significantly higher than you I bet

[tacit forum]

unless you are running CT for some reason lol

[shy dust]

Because guess why

Ilvl is king

[lapis jungle]

what conduits are u guys running in m+?

[tacit forum]

WPS

[lapis jungle]

and the second? Havnt unlocked the burrs yet. Just logged in haha

[tacit forum]

lethal poisons

[stoic needle]

Lethal poisons should be the first

It's better for aoe

[lapis jungle]

thanks! Saw infexious was running LP and PK. And got alittle confused

[stoic needle]

Infexious

[tacit forum]

yeah gl swapping conduits all the time

[stoic needle]

Poisoned katar is only good when you consistently have large large target counts

[spice spire]

5+ iirc

[stoic needle]

Any time it gets down to 2-4 targets it's not worth it

[lapis jungle]

ahh okay 🙂

[stoic needle]

And the prio burst from WPS is just better even when pk is used optimally

[lapis jungle]

alright! With assa u should sim pw+4 right? instead of DS?

[stoic needle]

DS is still fine, but I do PW 5t or 8t and compare to DS

To see if it recommends different gear

[stray ivy]

none of rogues cov powers have big aoe boom?

[stoic needle]

For top gear anyway

[stoic needle]

Honestly I dont know whether to laugh or cry at this

But no

They don't

[stray ivy]

all these covenent abilities seem kinda shitty

[stoic needle]

They are

[stray ivy]

compared to other classes

[stoic needle]

Yep

[stray ivy]

i feel they should have buffed the venthyru poison at least that coulda been some aoe

[stoic needle]

Replacing the slaughter poison with flagellation was basically a slap in the face tbh

Flagellation is so fucking bad it's not even funny

[lapis jungle]

Was double garrote just a thing with borrowed powers in bfa?

[spice spire]

It bleeds ✅
It provides haste ✅
It does no damage ✅

It’s built for assassin rogues

[spice spire]

Yes, without SS, double garrote isn’t as good

[sterile perch]

is well placed steel or maim mangle better for pvp?

[frozen jasper]

226 Vial from vault lets go boys

[gloomy rover]

big gratz

[strange python]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[stoic needle]

Huge

[stoic needle]

Well placed steel, sepsis does like 20k+ with wps

I could see maim mangle being good with doomblade at higher conduit ranks but it sucks rn

[frozen jasper]

thanks guys

[shrewd helm]

I bet you’re real fun at parties 😂

[shy dust]

I mean

youre just giving out dumb advice

you dont chase a number of haste

you wear your best combination of gear and go from there

chasing a specific number is dumb

[winter gale]

We go shadowcore oil?

[fervent zodiac]

You must have missed the days of capping Hit rating, or Shadow/frost resistance.

[shy dust]

Are we in those days

I do remember those days but they are bygones now

[winter gale]

Where can I check all best consumables?

On wowhead is ok?

[steep hamlet]

which missives do you put on leggo? crit haste?

[shrewd helm]

I never said to chase a number of haste.

You’re reading way too much into my comment.

[shy dust]

.

Nonetheless just run what sims best for you

[thorn echo]

Yo yes shadowcore sims best for me at least

[shrewd helm]

Where did I say you must have haste?

[royal lantern]

you can start too worry about stat% when every single slot you guys are wearing is 226

before that, its litearlly ilvl>everything else

[stray ivy]

so no MA legendary for m+?

[royal lantern]

cus of mainstat

[thorn echo]

anyone know if we wanna take Niya's Burrs for our 30 or take poison and the potency? I know what I think is probs best

[shy dust]

You can sim it

[royal lantern]

like, people make such a pseudo scienece out of it, when stat breaktrought points dont exsist

[shy dust]

But

Burrs beats out 2nd potency in st

[shrewd helm]

On top of that you’re taking it out of context considering the question was about rotation “feeling” good.

[feral sierra]

Anyone done some pvp ? Opinions?

[thorn echo]

Thought so

[royal lantern]

ofc it does

rogue potency conduits are bad

espacily at the lvl where we are rn

[rough scaffold]

Never seen so many people using raidbots. 1700+ queue!

[carmine flare]

I am hoping to just clarify something about covenants: for the other specs, NF pulls ahead at 30 renown, and this is stated in the pins. For Sin, this is not stated in the pins. Does this mean Kyrian sims higher than NF even at 30 renown, if one is playing sin?

[thorn echo]

I'm pretty sure we're all NF

Most of the top 100 right now at least

[wheat vigil]

Is there even enough renown 30 data out there to go off yet?

[shy dust]

To go off what?

[rough scaffold]

I think they meant 'is there enough to make accurate projections'

[vital sorrel]

Is Sin viable in M+ now?

[shy dust]

There are sims

and there has been for a while

you can sim them

[stray ivy]

whats the best legendary for m+

[tribal marlin]

dumb question dumb answer but : Usually Subt aim for 10-11% haste and Assa for ~20% haste

but haste is always good in assa

so even when > 20% haste, haste will keep being a strong stat.

[brittle pawn]

sub doesnt aim for shit

[royal lantern]

nobody

aims

for

shit

[shy dust]

Aiming for something is such a weird thing

[royal lantern]

jesus christ where does this HOW MUCH % DO I NEED? shit comming from

[shy dust]

in a world where m+ drops equivalent to highest ilvl yes

but you just rng your best gear currently

outside of being a high ilvl pvper

[tribal marlin]

it's not like "get X % and stop adding more stat"

[stoic needle]

Envenom MFD envenom go brr

[tribal marlin]

it's "if you have 3% haste and play assa, your priority is to get as much haste as you can"

[royal lantern]

if a item gives mainstat

you use the highest ilvl you have avaible

[shy dust]

but i dont understand this

[royal lantern]

like

[shy dust]

why aim for it

[royal lantern]

thats all

[shy dust]

when a sim will just tell you

what to equip and what to gem/enchant

[royal lantern]

^ that too

[shy dust]

you dont have to use your brain and guess hmm im low haste i should get more

when a robot with 5000 iterations

will tell you

[thorn echo]

Guys might wanna chill out if you don't like the questions don't answer them bit unnecessary

[tribal marlin]

gear compare sims are annoying I can imagine peeps just are lazy to do a lot of sims

[shy dust]

its not gear compare

its top gear

because for the most part

226 gloves even bad stated

wont lose to 210 gloves

your pool of gear to choose from

[royal lantern]

why compare gear you litearlly dont have

like, whats the point

[shy dust]

is very limited by having such a low amount of 226 gear

[rough scaffold]

Anyone able to comment on if 4433 DPS a good RB sim for my LVL 194 Rogue

[tribal marlin]

loot council / pvp vendor

[shy dust]

Yes

Ive bought all pvp gear and done m+ and raid been in for most bosses

and yet my pool of 226 gear

is extremely small still

[cosmic prism]

just realised ambush being a dps decrease sucks, i have to bind it to a separate key

[brittle pawn]

who cares, that's world quest ilvl

[upbeat umbra]

It started because someone said Sin felt bad and they had 10% haste. So people suggested that they get more haste and it will feel better. No one in that initial conversation mentioned DPS. It just got way out of hand after that.

[spice spire]

I mean that guy cares. 4433 is fine for 194 ilvl

Nothing crazy

But it’s good!

[rough scaffold]

Oh, i suppose i dont understand the distinction!

[rough scaffold]

thanks!

[royal lantern]

except that haste also will not make a noticable gameplay difference lol

[tribal marlin]

Ye I know @upbeat umbra I'm just trying to defend people that ask for "what amount of X stat should I aim for" because I do believe it make sense. If for example you are gearing up and want to reduce the amount of dungeons you do then you can target specific rings

etc...

[winter gale]

Sharpening Stone sims better for me but its so minor

[tribal marlin]

or you can indeed run droptimizer and follow instruction, but not everyone play like that

[stoic needle]

That would make sense if gearing from dungeons and raids was in any way reliable but it's not

[brittle pawn]

there's nothing to min max at that ilvl. your dps is what it is and everything you get will be an upgrade.

[winter gale]

Should I follow the sim or overall opinion that oil is better?

[stoic needle]

Follow the sim

[winter gale]

15dps diff

[royal lantern]

i mean

[spice spire]

Sim is better

[royal lantern]

sharpening stone is flat dmg

oil is a proc

[stoic needle]

I feelcraft with my weapon/potion enchants though, I don't like how unreliable oil and pots are

[royal lantern]

the stone is better by default if it sims higher lel

[rough scaffold]

Oh cool thanks. At what point does that change

[stoic needle]

Sometimes shadowcore oil does 10k dmg sometimes it does 2k, I don't like that

[cosmic prism]

is there a macro that will use ambush if it is able to be cast, otherwise mutilate?

[shy dust]

Run this under your import in an advanced sim https://pastebin.com/0CnXcRR1

[stoic needle]

I go stones and agi pots just for the consistency

[shy dust]

if you havent run that sim

[spice spire]

220ish probably

[shy dust]

it will show you which is your best combination

brought to you by Whispyr

[stoic needle]

It's not possible to make that

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[stoic needle]

Like I get the idea of trying to target gear, but the gear that drops from dungeons and raids is so rare you can't really rely on it. Pvp is the only reliable gearing atm

[winter gale]

If I go phantom fire then oil is better ?

[shy dust]

Did you run

the sim I just linked you

that answers your question

[winter gale]

Running it atm

[shy dust]

then wait for it?

and it will tell you an answer

[buoyant mauve]

I'm so broke I'm still using prolonged power pots lol

[rough scaffold]

Can we share these raidbot reports (Seems like we can>) https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qs1Myx7ARGJ7Vhdawz1HST

🤓 I guess i answered myself

[stoic needle]

You should craft zoldyck

That'll be a solid dps increase for you

[rough scaffold]

Oh man I havent got it yet

[stoic needle]

Especially on legs

[barren crater]

Zoldyck > than DS or is it a small difference?

[spice spire]

Last week was the week too

[stoic needle]

on anything more than one target

[cosmic prism]

do you vanish into envenom with master assassin or ambush?

[stoic needle]

You can still get the zoldyck memory if you run twisting corridors, you just have to keep resetting until you get the coldheart interstitia torment

[rough scaffold]

thank you!

[tribal marlin]

ambush outside of blindside has low value because it surely deal more damage but generate less CP potential and don't proc blindside

[stoic needle]

Envenom

But that's more of a pvp thing

[tribal marlin]

so usually you never use ambush unless you have blindside proc

[stoic needle]

You're better off envenoming first then vanishing, and mutilating out of stealth with MA for the CP

[buoyant mauve]

but the big crits baby!

get some t11 numbers

[shy dust]

from speaking to whispyr

ambush from sepsis

seems to be 10 dps swing in either direction

based on your profile

[tribal marlin]

ye I believe it's marginal

[shy dust]

for example kojis sim had it as 10 gain

[cosmic prism]

well vanish > envenom > mut > mut is pretty much the same as envenom > vanish > mut > mut > envenom @stoic needle

[shy dust]

and whispyr as 10 loss

[stoic needle]

Well, you'd actually do vanish > mut > envenom > mut> envenom because the mut crits would give you 4 cp

If you envenom out of ma you're missing out on another finisher

[cosmic prism]

true actually

[rough scaffold]

oh cool. that legendary pairs well 'seal fate' or whatever its called

[stoic needle]

Yep, it applies to the talent too

[rough scaffold]

What do you think about Tiny toxic blade as a legendary we can craft for use with Sin and Sub?

[swift gorge]

how is assa doing in pvp?

[stoic needle]

It's really bad

It's honestly insulting, that legendary used to make shiv spread your dots to a 2nd target

Shiv doesn't do much damage and doesn't cost much energy to begin with, so a damage bonus and no energy cost doesn't fix that problem

[barren crater]

I have a 210 MA ring right now. Can I just keep going with that and still see numbers similar (not exact) to DS and Zoldy

[stoic needle]

Shiv with the legendary does about as much damage as a non crit ambush

Which isn't that great either

[stoic needle]

Not similar tbh

[rough scaffold]

Good point

thanks

[stoic needle]

The whole reason you bring sin is for the execute from zoldyck

If you don't have that you're just purely worse than sub

[barren crater]

I missed out on getting Zoldy. Should I just wait and save SA for that to come back

Rather than making DS

[stoic needle]

You can get the memory from twisting corridors lvl 3

You have to just reset the runs over and over until you get the torment from coldheart interstitia

Then the lvl 3 boss will drop the zoldyck memory

Not sure if it's the first one or the last but it'll drop somewhere in there

[barren crater]

Fracture Chambers and Soulforges no chance though right?

[stoic needle]

Yeah

[barren crater]

I think for me it's smarter to hold offff then. I already have a 210 MA and 225 Akarii

[rough scaffold]

solid insight right there. Thanks man. I'm going for that memory this afternoon. Snowed in so its a good day for it

Cheers everyone, thanks for the knowledge drops

[stoic needle]

Sin stonks rising

They laughed at us, soon, we will be the ones laughing

[quasi scroll]

Where does Poisoned Katar drop?

just random?

[gusty mirage]

Theater of Pain

[quasi scroll]

ty

[gusty mirage]

No problem

[strange python]

Dashing Scoundrel BiS for PvE?

[stoic needle]

Zoldyck is better

Dashing is only marginally better on pure single target

And the execute niche is why sin is brought to raids at all, dashing just makes you a worse sub rogue

[torpid spoke]

does snapshotting still exist?

[stoic needle]

Only for subterfuge, nightstalker and exsanguinate

[drowsy hollow]

woo, got my main hand

174 equipped, I may have a shot at getting into m0s

[spice spire]

Technically yes but it’s not an active part of our kit like it was in bfa

On snapshotting**
Assassination in mythics

[drowsy hollow]

It doesn't feel that bad honestly

kinda wish there was a bit better AoE option

is blindside really not recommended in AoE? I like how it speeds up the rotation just a bit

[thin kernel]

You dont mut in aoe

[spice spire]

Depends on needs. If you’re doing small mob bulls, blindside is fine.
If you’re doing more than one group at a time, probably better as EP.

Blindside fits much better on tyrannical weeks

But you still may be an EP gamer

[drowsy hollow]

Can they make posion bomb great again please haha

[late raven]

whats the opener with master assas guys

[spice spire]

Mut > SnD > Mut > Rupture

[late raven]

what talent on second row to use for m+ with ma?

[candid jasper]

How is it feeling?

Still trash?

[spice spire]

2% raw behind sub

[spice spire]

Subterfuge

[candid jasper]

On fights with multiple targets, I assume it's better though and for fights with downtime

[quasi scroll]

is anything in assassin kit uncapped aoe?

[spice spire]

It’s big on specific fights in CN, like denathrius since phase 3 is a massive pump and dump for sin.

[quasi scroll]

poison bomb?

[spice spire]

And no I don’t think so. Maybe PB uncapped, but fan and tempest are both capped

[iron orchid]

You can put poisons and bleeds on an unlimited number of targets

that's actually quite good

just takes some time

[drowsy hollow]

I kinda wish the poison build was better. I like it thematically

But given it's entirely passive they can't let it

[fleet whale]

? poison build is better though?

[mint peak]

you cant really call tab bleeding uncapped since the duration will expire as you only have so many gcds to apply each

[drowsy hollow]

Is it? I hadn't seen master poisoner recommended or poison bomb really.

[fleet whale]

poison bomb is default for st....

[quasi scroll]

How do people handle the animacharged CP? Just if you happen to land on it, use it, else just ignore?

[brittle pawn]

switch NF

[quasi scroll]

really

[drowsy hollow]

If I remember the debuff lasts forever so you have time to wait

[fleet whale]

the animacharged cp is easy to hit as assassin

[quasi scroll]

I mean, you don't "try" to get it

[drowsy hollow]

We'll, not forever

[fleet whale]

sin by far has the easiest time hitting it

[quasi scroll]

I usually have trouble when it's on #2

I mean trouble is like, takes 10 seconds

[spice spire]

Seal fate seems to love when I’m about to hit the anima charged

[quasi scroll]

exactly

like almost incentivizes lowering crit

[iron orchid]

that's the only reason i play NF tbh

[spice spire]

I only play nightfae because Venthyr is shit

[pallid cradle]

what are we taking for 40 talents

[brittle pawn]

https://castle-nathria.subcreation.net/

[fleet whale]

personal preference really

i just take internal bleeding since i'm too lazy to swap from it when in raid lol

but in M+ i would take iron wire

[drowsy hollow]

I went Venthyr cause it was the last leather covenant I needed

I also like it's rotational mini game the most

[fleet whale]

I find flag more frustrating than enjoyable

double gcd is trash

[pallid cradle]

do you have to cast it again or can you let it run

[drowsy hollow]

Either cast again or kill the target

[stoic needle]

It's by far the worst

[drowsy hollow]

I just like the concept of it and rogue is never gonna be a main of mine

Sepsis really underwhelmed me

[stoic needle]

The more and more I played with flag the more and more I hated it

I hope they rework it in 9.1 so I can go back home to my goth vampire squad

[drowsy hollow]

My 4 Venthyr classes are rogue, priest, shaman, and warrior

[hazy marlin]

do u multidot council for more enrgy?

[upbeat umbra]

I do

[balmy condor]

I multidot 1 of them personally

[hazy marlin]

ty

[gentle sable]

so is it worth to go necrolord with doomblade lego and maim, mangle ?

[spice spire]

That’s a lot of cute, Short answer is probably not

[soft shale]

wait does doomblade work with serrated bone spike

[fleet whale]

wow burs gave me like 100 more dps in sims

and i don't think so

[balmy condor]

No

[balmy condor]

Necro is worse, doomblade is a little bait, and maim is worse

[fleet whale]

so does shiv buff burs

[open swift]

burrs is so op wtf

[fleet whale]

cause if it does, i'll prolly run WPS as my potency

[open swift]

its doing most of my dmg

[open swift]

its nature damage so its hould

[stoic needle]

Someone said it was poison bomb 2.0 kek

[shy dust]

If burrs is doing most of your damage

[balmy condor]

I can check later

[shy dust]

You might be making a few rotational mistakes

[open swift]

does it matter if its pvp and not pve

[shy dust]

Spec channels are mainly pve related

[fleet whale]

on my sim it's like 3.9% of my damage

[open swift]

fair

[tribal mauve]

!bis

[prisma monolith]

Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz

[frosty skiff]

so if all gear is equal how does assassin do now

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
RH: https://www.ravenholdt.net/guides/assassination-rogue-guide-shadowlands-raid-dps/
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide

[balmy condor]

Bout 3% worse

[frosty skiff]

damn, i wonder if it scales better later on with mroe passive haste

[fleet whale]

2-3% worse simming

isn't really bad

[frosty skiff]

difference between being benched and not in mythic raiding

[stoic needle]

No

That's not a thing

Specs scale with borrowed power now, not stats

The gap between specs will not change with just more ilvl

[frosty skiff]

poison dot ticks are quicker with more haste no?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[stoic needle]

It doesn't matter though

[balmy condor]

But also yeah, we don’t scale with gear

[plain spruce]

which guide has a more updated opener? wowhead and icyveins are different

[unborn flint]

some classes scale differently simply by the mechanics of their damage resource (energy , rage etc )

[balmy condor]

They’re both updated, openers just don’t really matter

[frosty skiff]

interesting, alright

[balmy condor]

[frosty skiff]

thanks for the info

guess il stick with outlaw for a bit longer, i miss assassin 😢

[gusty mirage]

Then go sin my dude, I’m just waiting to get a 2nd dagger and I’m coming homeeeee

3% isn’t that big of a deal tbh

[stoic needle]

The execute boost makes up for it

[frosty skiff]

the problem is the soul ash for the legendary. I feel like theyre gonna buff assasin again so it might be worth the investment though

[celest ruin]

anyone else have doomblade simming higher than zoldyck?

[balmy condor]

That’s normal

[balmy condor]

Again?

Bruh it’s already competitive

Sub wouldn’t exist if it got another buff

[unborn flint]

a buff a day keeps all the subs away

[stoic needle]

Mark my words sin is gonna go off the rails with whatever dumb borrowed power they add next

[balmy condor]

[stoic needle]

Screenshot it

Call me oshostradamus

This is based on absolutely nothing but my faith in blizzard's inability to balance things properly

[spice spire]

Survival hunters are next OP

[coral imp]

id rather play assassin over sub in pve now..

[stoic needle]

Then do it

[plain spruce]

is ambush worth using with sepsis buff over mut?

[coral imp]

i am

LOL

[stoic needle]

Nothing is stopping ya

Hell yeah

[coral imp]

hard commit 235 zoldyck

doing m+

[stoic needle]

Poggers

[balmy condor]

They’re about equal, I would say no

[coral imp]

tragedy im number 1 sin rogue m+ without having done NW at all

[plain spruce]

3cp vs 4 potential, i would agree

[coral imp]

in tich*

[stoic needle]

Lmao I'm #1 on my server too

It's easy for now at least

[coral imp]

yea

averaging like 5.8k depending on the dungeon is pretty nice

[stoic needle]

I can't wait to see what I do with burrs

[fleet whale]

you will do damage

[limber lion]

To be honest, it's not gonna be noticable

It procs randomly here and there. A 6% increase in your damage isn't really something you "feel"

[stoic needle]

idk tbh

i felt the difference swapping from venth to nf and that was a smaller increase

[limber swallow]

traitor.

[stoic needle]

no

blizzard betrayed me

by giving venthyr shit garbage abilities and soulbinds

[limber swallow]

#edgelord4life

[limber lion]

There's way too many variables in the game to somehow feel the difference between 1-2% damage variance.

There's critical strike, procs, pack size etc.

Every pull is different with different procs

One pull you might feel like you're doing a lot of damage and you notice your Burrs is at 0.8%

Then one pull you feel like you did nothing and Burrs is 6.8%

[limber swallow]

in all seriousness tho.. venthyr is terrible. I'm hoping for some kind of rework announcement at blizzcon and if nothing, i'm out as well.

[strange python]

nah they won't announce that at blizzcon

or that specifically, they could announce something like "we'll be taking a look at some covenant abilities and maybe making adjustments"

[fleet whale]

the problem is that they already redesigned the rogue venthyr ability already

doing it again means blizz is admitting that they screwed up

[strange python]

flagellation doesn't need a rework it jsut needs some numerical adjustments and a QoL change

[fleet whale]

it's initial hit should be harder

it should generate some cps

[strange python]

take the power out of the haste buff and put it in the damage and lashes

[fleet whale]

the second use shouldn't be on the gcd

[strange python]

also yes it should generate cp like the other rogue abilities

and yes that too

[fleet whale]

or they could just make it kind of like memory of past sins

[strange python]

the 2nd cast also shouldn't eat energy

but idk all of the rogue abilities are dog shit

none of them are actually cast for their damage

[fleet whale]

sepsis would be quite strong

if the cd was shorter

[strange python]

maybe yea

[fleet whale]

i mean even now it' slike 4-5% of my total damage

[strange python]

none of our cov abilies do anything for our aoe lol

[fleet whale]

it actually hits pretty damned hard, just not hard enough to justify a 1.5 min cd

[strange python]

and then theirs wild spirits

[fleet whale]

idk, Preach apparently thinks hunters are gonna be mediocre soon lol

[strange python]

lol

[fleet whale]

and rogues are "rising"

[strange python]

idk man thats a dumb conclusion

big youtube revenue conclusion

[fleet whale]

yeah the vid just spewed feelscraft

although he did get benched on his guild's mythic sire guild because they thought hunters really weren't that good on that fight

[strange python]

[fleet whale]

and after the kill, the guild disbanded lol

[strange python]

yea these are some blazing hot takes

[fleet whale]

it's the Fatboss guys who ran the guild btw

[strange python]

sounds like that guild does a lot of feelcrafting

or did* a lot of feelcrafting

[fleet whale]

Preach claims that MM gets most of it's damage from high base damage on it's abilities

and doesn't really gain much from gear

[drowsy hollow]

I'm waiting for necrolord hunter to be made better and then I'll level my orc hunter to be survival with undead pets

[balmy condor]

Abilities don’t.... have.... base damage?

[fleet whale]

idk watch the vid

it's his thoughts not mine lol

[drowsy hollow]

Some abilities scale faster with ap/sp

[balmy condor]

Well yes, there are different numbers on different abilities

[fleet whale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgwgnK2LFoE

[balmy condor]

If I have an ability doing 80% ap, that’s by definition more than an ability doing 15% ap

[fleet whale]

just start the vid at like 6:40

[drowsy hollow]

And other classes don't get to do more things if they get more crit or more haste

It varies class to class of course

[fleet whale]

"There are several specs in the game that naturally do well without gear"

[worthy heart]

aighttttt, did some bosses as assa (havent played in forever this spec) and it performs nicely on pure single target

[balmy condor]

I lost brain cells

God damnit

[low girder]

Max's takes were way better

[balmy condor]

The worst part is

That’s not how math works

Like

Abilities don’t calculate damage like that

[low girder]

Though tbf soon as preach said the line varo quoted I was out lol

[carmine flare]

Can you explain why openers don't really matter?

[balmy condor]

It’s an AP% * weapondps * Vers and stuff

[hollow escarp]

today's raid with assa was pretty fun

[balmy condor]

Moving 3-4 gcd’s, once in a fight, is not going to change your dps much

[spice spire]

Did someone say opener

[balmy condor]

Stuff like shiv before sepsis vs after sepsis in opener is so minimal that it’s not a discernible gain either way

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

Sims actually open with sepsis from stealth

And that’s not necessarily because it’s the best ability to cast from stealth

[frail fossil]

watching a 15min preach video to verify if the false thing he said is false

[balmy condor]

It’s just that adding logic to not cast sepsis first, hasn’t been shown to be a gain

[limber lion]

Just make sure you press all the necessary buttons once and you'll be good

[carmine flare]

Thank you. Are you saying this is more true of sin, or is this a truism of all rogue specs?

[hollow escarp]

use Afenar wa and press all flashy icons

[balmy condor]

All classes in the game

Except maybe fire mage, that one can actually sorta go wrong

Combust sequences exist for a reason

But lik

Think about it

[balmy condor]

You’re casting like 300 abilities in 5 minutes on a lot of classes

[low girder]

Always relevant

[balmy condor]

Moving 3 or 4 of those

Is not going to make a difference

[steel ridge]

How about gar-er-gar?

[balmy condor]

Well that’s breaking more than 1 rule

[steel ridge]

No wait mfd-snd-gar-er-gar-rup

[balmy condor]

I’m saying the order of abilities doesn’t matter

Not “smash buttons as you please”

Like if you sepsis at the start, or wait till vendetta, or shiv early or later, etc

[steel ridge]

No it actually has reason

[balmy condor]

There are some things that do matter

Like not double garroting

Or casting snd first

[steel ridge]

We dont do that anymore for the 80%?

[balmy condor]

No

We never have

[lament skiff]

in bfa, if you were high haste/bleed spec thats what you did. Not sure anymore

[balmy condor]

Double garrote from stealth was a shrouded suffocation thing

[steel ridge]

We did with SS

[balmy condor]

Not a subterfuge thing

If you went subterfuge without SS

You wouldn’t double garrote either

[steel ridge]

Well ok, what do i do from stealth with sf

mfd snd i guess

[lament skiff]

if you were playing with bleed spec, you garrote rupture garrote (In BFA) for extended buffed garrote damage

[balmy condor]

Did you read anything I said

[lament skiff]

i read like the last 5 message