I’ll have to work overtime 
#assassination
balmy condor
serene mauve
i just dont want to learn subtlety lol
low girder
Lmao
uncut schooner
The only spec I haven't really ever touched.
supple compass
i say something and i get 200 io season 4 players coming out of the woodwork to argue semantics with me based on some random info they read on icyveins
uncut schooner
Is Outlaw... so.
balmy condor
i say something and i get 200 io season 4 players coming out of the woodwork to ...
It be like that
supple compass
"bro celerity isnt good, its the best you fucking casual"
balmy condor
I had someone in sub argue with me that shiv will make sin strong since sub doesn’t have it
uncut schooner
Tbh no different in sub chat.
supple compass
sub is the worst
balmy condor
It spills over
supple compass
but they overflow into outlaw bc nobody answers their constant stream of stupid questions
uncut schooner
They're all good.
uncut schooner
Ya muppets.
I spent like 2-3 days trying to advise unsure people on why their cov choice doesn't have to be Kyrian or NF.
It's scary how many people are tossing themselves into covs based on nothing but sim results.
balmy condor
People toss themselves into everything
Have you seen the amount of MA opener questions we get in #tc-research
Arguing about something that might be like 20 dps in sims in a very specific niche use case
Like it’ll help them clear Aotc
supple compass
people like to feel like theyre important
even those people
one way they can achieve that is by contributing words to the chat
inner lagoon
i am on AOTC LFR roster
supple compass
even if its useless info
strange python
Wow rekt
balmy condor
and bad info leads people down wrong paths
main forge
but the dark side has cookies
balmy condor
which is partly why I try to crack down on bad info so much in here
uncut schooner
If people actually read half the resources available to them before coming in asking repeat questions though, that'd be nice.
main forge
Like google brings up the three guides listed here for search results... and the youtube videos by rogues pretty much say the same thing too
uncut schooner
Like the whole cov debacle again, if you actually read the wowhead article beyond the first line at the top it'll even advise against picking covs solely on the sims and that all of them have potential in the expansion.
main forge
I am a little surprised more sin rogues went Night Fae according to stats over Kyrian or Necro or Vent
serene mauve
i like assassination because the people who play it arent necessarily all try hards. I feel like if i go sub i have to sweat lol
inner lagoon
lol
uncut schooner
Tbh I had a really difficult time making the decision Kabrai.
main forge
I did too. Still not happy with Night Fae, but I did it partly for the story.
uncut schooner
I only went nf in the end because the mobility seemed like the greater perk overall, I can remember far too many instances in nyalotha where an extra sprint would have saved the raid or got me to my position faster.
inner lagoon
i chose necrolord
serene mauve
i went night fae for the zone lol
main forge
Yeah, I think I found the mobility more useful than sepsis.
uncut schooner
I'm not huge on the night fae zone, I won't lie. My favourite was kyrian if I'm honest.
main forge
Already using it to chase MFers down in pvp.
uncut schooner
That zone just hit me the moment I began levelling there.
Like holy crap, "blizz really upped their game here"
uncut schooner
I think revendreth is a little dull to be honest, the sinfall section looks pretty neat and I do like the overall vibe of the zone.
But traversing it is nightmarish.
That leather mog tho... oh god.
🔥
main forge
They all have their own color scheme.... but Revendreth has Grey/Red, i mean it fits but its drab
uncut schooner
In the end the nail on the coffin was flagellation for me though.
main forge
I honestly did not get enough time to play with that TBH
uncut schooner
I like sepsis, I like bonespikes, echoing reprimand is ok, bit basic but its fine.
flagellation could of been better in its execution
main forge
I really think as soon as you got to a zone, you were given the two abilities... i swear on the campaign they took too long to give them to you
Bonespike was probably my favorite... I cannot recall how Flagellation even worked... The idea of Echoing reprimand was neat but I couldn't wrap my head around it nor did it feel as strong as it sounds.
Sepsis sounds like it had the best chance to fuck up my rotation, and it so far has done well at that.
you're sitting at 5 combo points and like no energy... here is a free stealth ability.
uncut schooner
You're not wrong haha, but its the thing that kind of steers me away from Assa right now in its current state.
Hm scratch that, read the tooltip wrong. Did they change it since pre-patch? (SnD)
balmy condor
what are we talking about
uncut schooner
The real reason I went night fae though, sepsis feels like it fits the theme of a master poison maker and fits in with the whole Assa concept.
serene basin
you, sir, are a hero
sand otter
@balmy condor hi >.>
balmy condor
hi :)
blazing swift
bruh look at mine 
uncut schooner
sand otter
uncut schooner
Gl! 😄
sand otter
and our mythic teams start this week too. im nervous, doing my best to not be a shit dps
fleet whale
what if the servers now come back today?
fleet whale
also dashing vs zoldyck is almost personal preference
serene basin
yeah, i noticed
balmy condor
dashing just drops off in multi-dot
serene basin
it just hit me
fleet whale
doomblade is also incredibly close in st, but drops off even more in cleave/aoe
balmy condor
doomblade is bad in aoe cause mutilate XD
not because of the envenom part
everyone gets so caught up on the envenom part
serene basin
the envenm was related to dashing, actually
serene basin
do tell more
balmy condor
in aoe you just have more energy, so the energy from dashing is worth less
balmy condor
the poison crit chance is also not really that impressive dps wise
you take dashing for the energy, not the poison crit
fleet whale
it's more than doomblade lol
balmy condor
if you want the poison crit, you go zoldyck
fleet whale
the poison crit chance used to a big part of it... back in Antorus
balmy condor
you mean back when poisons did like 40% of our damage?
yeah
It did do a lot
crazy how that works XD
serene basin
yup
balmy condor
yeah
stable vector
You really feel great winning against sub rouge atm
balmy condor
unsurprisingly, if poisons do a lot of damage, poison legendaries are very strong
balmy condor
You really feel great winning against sub rouge atm
no, sin is kinda really bad XD
fleet whale
i imagine Doomblade puts a little bit more value into WPS as well
serene basin
that sub must be only on autoattacks
fleet whale
or he's using black powder in st
stable vector
or just cant use anything else than a macro
fleet whale
tbh, i feel like a lot of sub rogues may just run premed over weaponmaster for progress
easier to execute, don't have to worry about snd
better in aoe situations
fleet whale
yeah, but a premed sub rogue still sims higher than a vast majority of specs atm
serene basin
is a bit more chill
fleet whale
and it's a little better with finality too
serene basin
true
but we are going to break them
just need to seize the chance
when it comes
~if~
fleet whale
i just want sin to be vialbe
like unholy is by far the better dk spec
but frost is by no means bad at all
stable vector
I wish frost mage was op 😕
fleet whale
i was talking frost dk
stable vector
yeah iknow
serene basin
rofl
stable vector
thats why i wrote mage
fleet whale
isn't frost mage decent atm
balmy condor
frost mage is fine yeah
stable vector
yeah its fine but not fire level
fleet whale
it's better in st
real bay
watch sin get giga buffed, sub fotm rollers flood this channel 
serene basin
watch sin get giga buffed, sub fotm rollers flood this channel <:yep:70342092362...
hahhahahaha
fleet whale
in fact when you look at wait times... assassin and sub aren't even that much different
assassin wait time.... 17.89%
sub wait time....11.79%
placid dawn
but the thing is, sub has that high intensity gameplay during shadowdance
but sin is always slow
so on sub you at least have regular PUMP moments
fleet whale
idk if i would consider 17.89% "slow"
in 60 seconds, with that wait time, for 49 seconds you are doing something
grim mason
what's the random beeps i hear in disc sometimes?
fleet whale
sort of
balmy condor
they're trying their best
grim mason
?
balmy condor
my characters don't exist :)
fleet whale
stuck on blue bar
i imagine thousands of players are trying to log in
and it's also 5 PM EST... way too close to many guilds raid times
grim mason
ahh sam 8% looad stuck 🙂
fleet whale
so a lot of people are gonna be rushing
vestal wren
!bs
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
vestal wren
is that fine, or should i rephrase sth?
balmy condor
looks perfect fuu, just like you 
grim mason
o.0
vestal wren
(updated Mutilate to start with a upper case letter)
commands are !ambush, !blindside or !bs
balmy condor
perfect
grim mason
how do peple already have keystones?
balmy condor
probably did a keystone last week or some shit
grim mason
wait wut
grim mason
lol
teal stratus
pretty sure thats how bfa started as well
Legion keystone completion gave a bfa keystone
grim mason
all the groups I see are Azralon and Rganaros 😦
real bay
thats pretty f'd up
rigid mango
Rather keep the chats clean so if u have assa stuff keep it here but if it's wow gen stuff move there thx 🙂
rigid mango
Nah aint no issue just pref not having people who have legit assa/outlaw/sub questions not ask because of an ongoing-offtopic convo 
balmy condor
this channel isn't used anyway zine its fiiiiiiiine, but also you right, I got caught up in not logging in 
grim mason
see like this I type one general thing and boom
but dude was in here for an hour talking shit and misinfo
grim mason
lol
void palm
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
grim mason
so can you enchant both weps with same chants, is there a loss there?
balmy condor
but its not bad
jagged pollen
is the WB mortanis ?
balmy condor
yes
jagged pollen
and we know the rotation already?
balmy condor
no
outer lodge
Assuming I'm staying Assa for the long haul, what's the best move today in regards to a Legendary? Make a r2 Zoldyck today? Or wait until next week? or wait till r4?
balmy condor
zoldyck till r4 probably
the cost is the same
so you can craft zoldyck right now
and just upgrade
outer lodge
im so torn between Zoldyck and Doomblade. I pvp alot too... Doomblade I think is much better for pvp and good in ST. But in all aoe/cleave situations Zoldyck out performs
idk what feels worse atm, assa in pve or assa in pvp
stoic needle
I'm probably going to delay getting r4 zoldyck and get at least r1 of doomblade, I just want to see how well sin can do on pure st if you really push it with some of the nature damage increasing conduits. The ilvl difference isn't a huge deal to me
outer lodge
I'm tempted to wait to buy anything until at least this week of heroic raiding is over to see if any tuning/changes come out
real bay
high chance of some tuning
outer lodge
🙏
grim mason
what is zoldyck?
balmy condor
the legendary
grim mason
where is it from i figured it was but i don't see it in the dungeon journ
balmy condor
coldheart torg
stoic needle
how do I get rid of this subtlety tag T_T
vocal cloud
balmy condor
how do I get rid of this subtlety tag T_T
bot spam type !subtlety
main forge
!subtlety
thats not very subtle
I am likely sticking with Assassination... but is there an all-around legendary that fits for All specs/content/pvp? or is it like take this legendary, and if you go another spec, you lose bonuses?
stoic needle
bless you
yeah that's why I crafted MA. works for any spec and helps me get honor easier in pvp
and i don't feel lego fomo the first week while everyone is crafting their bis leggos. I can wait and see what shakes out
uncut schooner
MA isn't a wrong choice, really.
I didn't invest in it because I don't PvP often enough, though I'll probably get around to it in the future inbetween waiting for next patch and having enough soul ash floating around.
stoic needle
honestly, it's so good in world content it was worth the cost for that alone
finite oxide
Is anyone else getting a bug with Terror-laden Slumber Sand anima power in Torghast that makes the reflected damage just break CC? I'm in the interstitia and I can't sap anything anymore because the reflected damage just breaks it
finite oxide
just after maintenance or before that?
balmy condor
after
finite oxide
ok. so it broke with maintenance. getting an anima power and then becoming weaker is interesting
fresh heron
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
strange python
we're back babies
pika playin sin
i had the same idea, wasn't feelin sub in the arena
so i was trying out that haste build
rofl he hit for 16k
shut garnet
storm forum
do I save Sepsis for vendetta? or just on CD?
balmy condor
on cd
storm forum
thanks
strange python
ahh yiss now i can use my vent stacks on my dots
damn he's going back to sub
to compare, so we'll see
he thinks he doesn't have enough haste, rn he has like no haste, so there is still potential
small steppe
this just in, i suck at sub and switched back
back to my comfy bubble
the damage dips in sub freak me out when youre between dances
hows raiding going for everyone? whats their experience been like yet
main forge
I am the only rogue in the raid
molten trellis
I played as OT and a guildie as sin
He did pretty much the same damage, just a bit lower
Lots of stuff to move out of melee range in the first bosses
OL**
small steppe
yeah im not seeing much issues with sin in the raid setting
small steppe
i cant wait for hunter nerfs 🙃
small steppe
Karl op
main forge
First boss is okay.
small steppe
i was not prepared for how bad that felt
its great in dungeons because shits dead before it matters
strange python
still really good in bg
small steppe
oh im sure
strange python
you just pop out, do your burst, then hide again
but arena you are kinda stuck after, still the best pick tho
strange python
oh its gooooood rn
strange python
ya gonna give it a shot when I get my haste pieces
idle star
pika playin sin
What leggo he usin?
pearl canyon
MA
idle star
So envenoms hitting that hard without Doomblade??? Woow
balmy condor
doomblades damage ain't because of the envenom homie
idle star
It increases envenom dmg for every bleed
balmy condor
it's not that big of an increase
pearl canyon
pika is using MA for his vanish envenom combo
to make it like an old coldblood
to oneshot someone
if it doesnt work then ggs
stoic needle
if you get 2 bleeds up it's roughly equal to symbols of death
i want to see how big of an envenom I can get with well placed steel and doomblade
Idk, sin seems to have access to quite a few damage amps, they just aren't as obvious as symbols + dance. You've got shiv, well placed steel, doomblade, elaborate planning, and vendetta. getting them all to line up is a different story...
stoic needle
yeah I feel you on that
bold ice
How bad is it that i went necrolord?
i like the bone spike but apparently its not great 😦
small steppe
i dont think terrible. everything was pretty close number wise
bold ice
gotcha
small steppe
at least from bloodmallet
bold ice
i just saw a video earlier and early metrics show that necrolord is the least picked rogue covenant lol
thought i made a big booboo
small steppe
tbh it was the one i wanted most. i love the necrolords
i picked night fae for the numbers
bold ice
my monk is night fae so i wanted to change it up
small steppe
yeah for sure
sepsis is nice. i like the one and done click lol
but the necrolord mount and mog ❤️
stoic needle
bone spike is way better than people think. it's 3 cp for 15 energy, that is amazing for smoothing out your rotation
bold ice
just got out of the raid...got 3 bosses down tonight on the monk
stoic needle
people focus too much on the dot and not enough on the rest of the ability
bold ice
tomorrow is time to play the rogue a lot more
stoic needle
idk whether the bleed synergizes with sin's passives or legendaries though
bold ice
that would be pretty epic
stoic needle
the mog is so bad
small steppe
i love it lol
stoic needle
otherwise i would've stayed necro
small steppe
night fae mog for rogue is ng
stoic needle
i can't stand it
small steppe
but i went venth on the mage
stoic needle
i have venthyr warrior and rogue so I feel you
stoic needle
condemn feels so much fun to play with I don't even care about the dps
small steppe
haha
bleak glacier
upgrading lego only increases ilvl right?
bleak glacier
so if i was off speccing sub, it’d best to keep my sub leggo at 1 and upgrade my sin leggo?
small steppe
not sure i was waiting for sire kill for mine lol
stoic needle
I'm using MA for mine until after tuning week to see how the specs shake out.
ma is super versatile
bleak glacier
i dunno if i either want to run sub or sin for raiding, hoping we’ll see some buffs soon
finality/zoldyck for me
eager hare
Does anyone ever feel squishy fighting the elites in Torghast? I come so close to dying every time I fight them with like 5% health left. Any tips?
north pewter
Pop defensives, pray for procs, smash keys as hard as possible
bold ice
How bad is the honor pvp gear? My rogue is my alt currently but I grinded out the full honor gear for em. Debating on if it's worth upgrading it to 184 ilvl
balmy condor
pretty gud
low girder
it's not cheap but it's good for filling out slots
high berry
What legendary are you guys going after ?
bold ice
My monk has done all my mythics so my rogue is behind...but I'm working from home currently so I'm just grinding epic bgs through the day on defense lol
balmy condor
zoldyck and finality for me
high berry
Are you putting zoldyck on legs ?
balmy condor
would be silly of me to put zoldyck on legs in my bis list and then not craft zoldyck on legs :P
fallow otter
Any night fae got a moment to link me simc cov line for dreamweaver with social butterfly?
lunar whale
what is the easier out of the 3 specs to play for rogue?
or should i just learn sub lmao
balmy condor
sin is the easiest probably
lunar whale
should i just learn to play sub or is sin still fine
lunar whale
lol
balmy condor
but there's some decent cleave opportunities
lunar whale
im trying to learn sub atm lmao and its tough
bold ice
I like the methodical play style of sin but the numbers seem way low currently
fallow otter
<@!201640840546877440> why not just pull it from a top gear
I would if I was at home
I wanna sim it
lunar whale
just trying to figure out what is decent im also stuck on kyrian or NF for sub
bold ice
Shrug...I went necrolord lol
lunar whale
lmao
balmy condor
I would if I was at home
soulbind=dreamweaver:2,319217/319210
bold ice
And I refuse to play kyrian...hate paladins/Holy theme
So even if it is best I won't play it lol
low girder
they're all fine tbh
venthyr might have some weird situations where it's not great but there's also some where it'll be really nice
main forge
yeah I think they all will have the moment in the sun... except for the venthyr, they can't handle that
normal olive
just a small question, we are not supposed to have 2750 soul ash in week 2 right?
grizzled jay
hmmmm
balmy condor
just a small question, we are not supposed to have 2750 soul ash in week 2 right...
wdym
I think 2750 is possible this week maybe?
but this would be week 3
grizzled jay
We can get R2 next Tuesday
calm dome
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
stoic needle
why is shadow blades 50% but vendetta only 30% 
low girder
because it's only on generators
balmy condor
also gives a cp and vendetta gives energy
primal zinc
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
untold crater
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
twin prism
So there is no loot from the chest this week?
outer lodge
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
balmy condor
So there is no loot from the chest this week?
No
balmy condor
My pleasure :)
cunning needle
is there a macro to show ambush instead of mutilate on proc?
south drum
Which wings do we get this week?
low girder
Which wings do we get this week?
skoldus/coldheart
south drum
Sweet
atomic gate
Kekw had to scroll several pages to see assassin DPS on heroic Shriekwing
What's the most patchwerk fight in the first 8 bosses
south drum
skoldus/coldheart
Is there a place to check online or is just in-game?
silk crest
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
silk crest
this bis list is up to date?
low girder
Is there a place to check online or is just in-game?
wowhead has it in their today in wow thing
low girder
this bis list is up to date?
yes
silk crest
zoldyck isnt a better option?
balmy condor
is there a macro to show ambush instead of mutilate on proc?
!bs
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
low girder
if you look at the dungeonslice sim tab it has zoldyck equipped
cunning needle
thanks
strange python
just crafted zoldyck, feels good.
waiting for the raid tomorrow. Hope to do decent dps, when some of the other classes are still lacking their bis lege
shadow breach
sin seems to be nowhere close to doing "decent" dps
strange python
we are the bottom of the barrel. Just hoping I can do some catching up with the lege.
silk crest
i crafted, is pretty good
sick scarab
rank 1 right ?
strange python
I think you can also craft the higher rank, but I'm behind on soul ash so made the rank 1 :>
most important thing is the lege ability
sick scarab
how many souls we need for rank 2 ?
silk crest
750
sick scarab
so to craft rank 2 directy we need the feet rank 2 and how many souls ?
silk crest
i upgraded my zoldyck to rank 2, but tomorrow i gonna get dashing, is better to me make another legendary or just continue with zoldyck?
@sick scarab if you already have the legendary you gonna spent 750 souls + the rank 2 feet
south drum
y r people complaining abt sin this xpack
It's just undertuned
minor needle
hoi
fiery mauve
its also a boomer spec
versed mica
It's a shame, it's a tad bit more fun than BFA's version tbh
fiery mauve
i mean
what is it, 40%? of assass damg is just from using the spec
deadly poison and auto attacks
versed mica
It's a methodical, relaxing spec to play. I don't see a problem with the playstyle
fiery mauve
ya to each their own
versed mica
Strangely enough, sub bores me more than sin
versed mica
god, its the most fun spec to play in M+ imo
managing all those bleeds 👌
ALmost exclusively played sin in M+ in BFA, it was just too much fun for me
Outlaw aoe is so boring
woven summit
onyx tinsel
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
real bay
I love how people say assa is boomer spec but the instant its buffed to be good people play it.. from zoomer to boomer
cold rampart
@spice spire so should i upgrade my zoldyck or craft scoundrel?
spice spire
It depends on your goals, if you’re doing a bit of both, probably just upgrade zoldyck . If you’re focusing on raid, maybe craft scoundrel and use that as your leggings.
I usually leave these to whispyr since they’re infinitely more knowledgeable but even they need some sleep
strange python
I would say that since sin is already one of the worst DPS specs it would be smart to concentrate your soul ash to the best all around lege.
pearl canyon
this might change next wed
spice spire
That was something else I should have mentioned, apologies. If you’re not sure, or can hold off, I’d recommend waiting until tuning day next Tuesday/Wednesday before you make a final decision
placid ether
How is layer 3 solo for assassination rogues? Coming from enh shaman and DH - is it manageable at roughly ilvl 150 or will that be incredibly hard?
grim cloak
It's hard at 180 lol
drifting imp
Yeah the bosses are pretty hard. Lucky for me I got a nice pally tank that pushes my undertuned ass through this tower, I never needed help to do visions in BFA 
placid ether
have I just been spoiled playing enh shaman and DH then doing the enh shaman layer 3's at ilvl 145 :p
ornate dawn
Did a layer 4 today wasnt too bad, just have to make sure to kill everything you can for upgrades/phantasma (181 ilvl)
grim cloak
if you get good anima powers yeah, otherise might as well just leave
drifting imp
yeah it think having luck with anima powers is also important, but i feel like rogues don't get that much nice powers to choose from
ornate dawn
You have to be strict on yourself and focus on boss killing powers, it might be nice to get something for AOE/add sections but really I'd take all single target things. Also taking max hp increases and reduced vial CD helps a LOT
frozen echo
kyrian rogues should be fine all around I'd say
echoing buffs are kinda crazy
once u get reset and free echoing. u have infinite energy
strange python
Kyrian is the strongest rogue covenant, so yes. They should be fine.
plain thistle
which patch? 🤔
quasi ledge
There was no patch, but I'm sure we'll know early next week or so
lilac coral
raided as ret and i really miss my BFA/legion sin rogue 😦
sour citrus
How is layer 3 solo for assassination rogues? Coming from enh shaman and DH - is...
Just gave up after 4 tries. Cant get past the last guard before going to boss floor.
craggy wave
that's honestly insane lol
plain thistle
90% all bosses hc btw
its a little bit better in other scenarios
and really low representation, only 33 logs
spice spire
I’ve been wary of the “need for tuning” until I had 91% haste vs the lock that had 71% and my bleeds were still below melee 🙃
craggy wave
Like I don't understand how they would just let sin slide through like that
my friend is playing unholy and is so upset that he's soon not going to be able to destroy everything
spice spire
Most that of the better rogue players went sub as well. Well see in the coming week. I know I won’t be having fun tonight on meters 🙃
balmy condor
:)
merry adder
this is. so depressing
I love sin I don’t get how it’s so undertuned rn
craggy wave
I won't lie, I don't really know anything about Torghast, but if I were to do lvl 3 skoldus, would I still get the memory at the end? I wasn't sure if the newer levels coming out messed with the drops or something. I just know I won't be able to solo lvl 4+
balmy condor
It’s close to 100% on 3+
The unluckiest of us need like 3-4 runs
But a vast majority get it on the first run
spice spire
^
craggy wave
Okay, cool. I'll try tonight. I got stuck last week on the final boss of a level 3 but I've gone up like 12 ilvls since then, so I'm hoping I can actually kill one this week lol
craggy wave
I'm at 172, but most of it is upgraded pvp gear with a lot of vers. I just figured at this point, more agi would be better than what I had on which was still questing gear
frail fossil
Fs in chat for sin
merry adder
worst thing I’ve ever seen
sick scarab
i crafted zoldyc rank 3 and gg
merry adder
can I relearn sub in two hours I wonder
random fossil
Fs in chat for sin
how do i read this graph?
balmy condor
how do i read this graph?
Left bad, bottom bad
frail fossil
how do i read this graph?
if it's at the bottom it is not very good
balmy condor
Yes
merry adder
cool cool love that
frail fossil
survival hunter is better than the 3 rogues specs 
drifting imp
i guess its time for my group to pull out the backpack and carry me this time 
grim cloak
where are these graphyics coming from ? Is that from a website ?
balmy condor
Warcraftlogs
sick scarab
i did first 3 bosses .. i did good damage on altimore i was second dmg on him
only on him ofc
balmy condor
Unholy has looked good for at least the last month or two
sick scarab
not so so so bad
balmy condor
Huntsman is the fight where you might be able to keep up with sub rogues
Outlaws should stomp you
sick scarab
we will not appear first in the meter cause adds etc.. but maybe focus the targhet etc
balmy condor
Sub’s 2 target cleave is kinda trash
sick scarab
i did more
balmy condor
You beat an outlaw rogue?
sick scarab
i speak on altmiro
balmy condor
Yes, huntsman, second boss
spice spire
Imagine losing to a dude that just ruptures and garrotes the dogs 
sick scarab
but that is obious
undone verge
@plain thistle how many sin parses though? i'm looking at heroic and there are 33 logged parses on normal. those could all be very casual people.
merry adder
man, at this rate I ought to just level my alts until they buff sin or something, that’s depressing
spice spire
<@!228959462713458698> how many sin parses though? i'm looking at heroic and the...
He said there were only 33 logs available, so it is a low representation
balmy condor
<@!228959462713458698> how many sin parses though? i'm looking at heroic and the...
It’s day one, so it is a little volatile
spice spire
Oh my apologies
undone verge
yes, it's a very low representation. i haven't played sin at end game in shadowlands yet but the hype is all about sub from what i see. there are 1,350 parses for sub..
balmy condor
Wellt
That’s because sub has been simming 15-20% higher than sin
For all of beta
We all saw this coming
undone verge
i'm not arguing that. i'm saying you could have good sub players parsing and bad sin players parsing. you don't know the quality of players parsing so when you're comparing 1,350 parses to 33 parses that is hard to compare
balmy condor
Sure
But the trend still exists
And it’s reflecting the disparity set in beta, and in sims
undone verge
soon they will nerf sub and kyrian into the ground to really spice up the community >:)
dark token
safe to say sin is getting buffs
it almost has as low playrate as survival atm
24 survival parses, 33 sin parses
dark token
They already nerfed kyrian in pvp
ah yes, now it hits for 8k instead of 11k 😄
balmy condor
Idc bout pvp honestly, so maybe a second pvp nerf
If they nerf kyrian in pve, it seems questionable as to the reasoning
dark token
yeah
delicate bone
Sin just needs a buff, the other 2 specs are chilling
Unholy needs a nerf forsure lol
vale quest
balmy condor
It’s looking trash
frigid kestrel
Its not the very bottom is it?
balmy condor
It is
visual token
It’s so low and makes me so sad
balmy condor
Logs have it a decent margin behind fury, which is the second lowest
frigid kestrel
RIP
frigid kestrel
Sims had it higher, no?
merry adder
balmy condor
Uh, yeah idk I guess sims had it a little higher
I don’t really think that should be a consolation though
3rd worst on sims vs worst on logs
shadow breach
sin is utter garbage
frigid kestrel
Na either way it was super low
balmy condor
It’s basically the same thing
gleaming eagle
i dont mind i will still make my sin legendary
shadow breach
and i doubt they woul buff it to the point where it would be relevant, prob needs some flat 20%, flatline 25% dmg
shadow breach
meanwhile unholy destroying everything, and multidot classes doing the same or better dps on st
twilit iron
Is it reasonable to wait/expect for a buff or would that be seriously rolling the dice
balmy condor
It’s reasonable to expect buffs at the end of this week
twilit iron
Then I hold out hope for now lol
urban marsh
Sin in torghast is such a blast, if they buff sin, its gonna be faceroll
got a new record today, 84k envenom
can go higher
tawny iris
got 3x161k evis as sub yesterday on last boss
arctic cove
It’s reasonable to expect buffs at the end of this week
you rly think something is gonna change with sin next tuesday?
lunar whale
i wish sin was good i hate sub lmao
balmy condor
Yes I do
lunar whale
if i were to go sin what cov is best for it atm
craggy wave
Kyrian? I went Night Fae, but I think Kyrian is like slightly better or pretty much equal to Night Fae
stoic needle
If you can get the stacks up venthyr isn't bad at all
lunar whale
im not a fan of venths ability sadly
love the mog and look of them dont like the ability which kills them for me
vestal wren
btw. good news, assassination is at the very bottom of the wcl statistic
what means that its likely to recive buffs if that continues
lunar whale
good im swapping sin lmao im not a huge fan of sub
vestal wren
sub doesen't even look that op
balmy condor
Ranged nerfs when? 
lunar whale
it doesnt lol i decided to mess around with it yesterday and think i got it down for the most part but im just not a fan of it
vestal wren
my entire guild is crying how op rogue is for 2 weeks now.
meanwhile raid statistics that are pure st:
lunar whale
i prefer sin over everything
stone epoch
I feel that
lunar whale
i mena pvp wise yes they are or were op
stoic needle
Ye I find it hard to keep up with hunters and spriest on pure st
vestal wren
idk how peoples perception of balance got so wrong
lunar whale
even the druid discord was saying feral was worst spec in the game lmao
yet there top 5 atm
stoic needle
Every m+ I do as sub I like it less and less 😔
balmy condor
idk how peoples perception of balance got so wrong
Akaari doubling our combo points is really op 
vestal wren
the /s emote did throw me off
stoic needle
love the mog and look of them dont like the ability which kills them for me
The ability fits into the sin rotation easier than the other specs at least because we have more empty gcds
balmy condor
the /s emote did throw me off
I have it, might as well use it
lunar whale
would it be dumb to swap sin now or should i just weait for tuesday to see what happens?
balmy condor
I would suggest waiting
lunar whale
okay
stoic needle
I don't feel comfortable asking groups to carry me as sin until we get some buffs
spice spire
Sub already jumping ship
arctic cove
@stoic needle yeah dude, i feel the same, sub is not as fun at all
stoic needle
Maybe I'm not running with people who are doing pulls in a way that works for rogues
But it seems like I obliterate the first pack, and then the tank chain pulls a 2nd and I'm just sitting there spamming backstab doing fuck all waiting for ShD to recharge
It feels so fucking awful
arctic cove
idk what im doing im just spamming Black powder and secret
arctic cove
im about to raid in 1 hour and im depressed
arctic cove
Sadge
stoic needle
We're just sin players in captivity atm
arctic cove
i just wanna go back to sin but i mean they gotta change something
and now ill get a sub legendary from raid when in reality i want a sin
stoic needle
Is it just me or are some of these dungeons really not restealth friendly
lunar whale
im a sin baby since cata and having to play sub is annoying
i dont like the sub rework
i prefer old sub imo
balmy condor
Is it just me or are some of these dungeons really not restealth friendly
Mostly a tank problem imo
lunar whale
hemo spam is life
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
balmy condor
what pots we using
Agi
full tide
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
magic thorn
Can we still get a pvp weapon this week?
balmy condor
Yup
magic thorn
Just fill cap and upgrade?
balmy condor
Yup
strange python
my loyal sins, i switched to outlaw because i thought it was the right thing to do and i hate it
hows sin feel in raid so far
spice spire
my loyal sins, i switched to outlaw because i thought it was the right thing to ...
Shitty
strange python
whats shitty about it? Too much downtime? Not enough damage? All the above?
spice spire
Way below par in damage
strange python
There sure are a lot of adds in this raid too
spice spire
Day 1 graph
balmy condor
Warcraftlogs yeh
spice spire
Yeah it doesn’t feel good at all. The GREAT NEWS is that we’re probably due a buff
balmy condor
Yeah
strange python
Nice!
Well I am hating Outlaw. It feels like ass unless you roll like a 4-5 buff and then it's awesome but that happens so rarely
I've been heavy into haste so my gear should be fine to switch to sin if it gets buffed i'd imagine
spice spire
Iirc stats are Too similar across the board
plain thistle
yeah, outlaw for raids is just painful in my opinion, no problem playing it for dungeons
merry adder
i guess i'll wait for sin buffs in the meantime and level like. my shadow priest
don't feel like re-committing to sub and switching stat priority in case things change from now
strange python
yeah i am 100% not going sub, i dont like the play style at all
stoic needle
limber star
lol
frail birch
I mean... It's definitely not melee friendly by any means
fleet whale
i'm surprised sub is just around the middle tbh
lean marten
i heard Whispyr is a power bottom so it works out
plain onyx
Guys, im on this quest, i know i can buy the missives from AH but which is the best for Assassination ? And from where do I get the Rune Vessel? Thank you
merry adder
haste and crit missives
vessel is either on AH or a crafter friend for whatever leggo you're making
so don't buy one until you have legendary recipe you want, it'll say which slot it'll go on
stoic needle
You want legs for zoldyck, afaik shoulders and gloves are the same for doomblade but apparently there are some high ilvl shoulders from denathrius?
strange python
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
strange python
haste and crit missives
vessel is either on AH or a crafter friend for whatever ...
haste & versa?
spice spire
Haste and vers or haste and crit
Haste is mandatory
Vers and crit are whatever on the second, I prefer vers but it’s your call there
merry adder
i prefer haste and crit myself but whatever you choose, haste is necessary
pearl canyon
is there a cap on haste? after which its better to stack other stats
in dung scenario
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
balmy condor
i heard Whispyr is a power bottom so it works out
big true
balmy condor
is there a cap on haste? after which its better to stack other stats
there are no stat breakpoints
stoic needle
Crit seems good because mutilate crits are our lifeblood
balmy condor
crit does seem good, but haste seems better ;)
balmy condor
because sadly you need vers as well
balmy condor
that's 8.3 stats :P
vestal wren
idk how good haste is in m+
balmy condor
idk how good haste is in m+
from what testing I did with Dslice for the bis list, haste seems pretty good
vestal wren
assassination def. looks like it needs quite a buff
and none of the rogue specs are outstanding rn
pearl canyon
imagine me min/maxing affli m+ in bfa and switching to assa rogue as my group needs a shroud and i like the snd mechanic only to see this ^
XD
pearl canyon
XD
merry adder
poisons go brr :((
pearl canyon
i have a fire mage in my group thats fine
balmy condor
ez carry
gleaming eagle
lore wise, poisons and bleeds doesn't work against vampires anyway
so it make sense
fleet whale
yet they are somehow effective against machines
plain onyx
Umbrahide Leggings is what I need to buy for sins ?
balmy condor
zoldyck on legs yeppers
stone dragon
Where does SCoudrel sit?
plain onyx
yeah zoldyck
balmy condor
Where does SCoudrel sit?
bis single target
plain onyx
zoldyck on legs yeppers
Does the item level matter ? or should I go with a 190 ?
balmy condor
you can upgrade
plain onyx
So Umbrahide Leggings done, and the two missives, one crit and one haste ?
spice spire
So Umbrahide Leggings done, and the two missives, one crit and one haste ?
Haste yes
Second can be crit or vers
plain onyx
got it thanks
spice spire
Wasn’t there a macro for the blindside procs in here a while ago for mutilate - unless blindside is active, then you would ambush?
balmy condor
!bs
prisma monolithBOT
Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message
spice spire
Ahhhh thank you! I had been looking at it forever
cold rampart
are we getting buffed soon??
balmy condor
yes my child
real bay
lmao nice dps bro
cold rampart
yes my child
latent field
Sad to see assassination in the toilet
stoic needle
The question is should I suffer through this first week as sin and then rise to greatness next week after buffs
safe nacelle
This is fine
stoic needle
Dbz hyperbaric time chamber style
merry adder
hey, here i recall feral druids complaining that they're trash
latent field
Feral always has a bad rep, even when it's in a good spot
lunar whale
thats because alot of people dont know how to play feral lmao
stoic needle
Feels like it's been that way since day one
lunar whale
then you have those people who know how to play the spec and they destroy everyone
stoic needle
People hated on ferals even back in 2006
safe nacelle
Our poisons are basically poison ivy at this juncture. And our bleeds are caused by small surgical incisions.
stoic needle
Our bleeds are papercuts
twilit iron
i leveled a feral alt and felt like that dog at the keyboard meme the entire time
safe nacelle
Mmm I like yours better
lunar whale
yeah i want to play sin so bad because i prefer it over sub and outlaw but id hate to get kicked from everything just because its in a bad spot atm
stoic needle
My only qualifier is that I need to do more dps than the tank
merry adder
my guild is pretty chill about it but i still feel bad
stoic needle
An aside, why the fuck do vdh do so much damage lol
atomic gate
40% difference between us and unholy kek
stoic needle
Literally unkillable and pumping 3k solid dps all the time
stone epoch
My guild is encouraging me to stay haha. They’re like you’ve been sin since cata. I do feel lucky.
The tank metric works until a prot pally joins the party
stoic needle
I'm not saying DH needs a nerf, I just genuinely don't understand where the numbers are coming from
atomic gate
Looks like tanks are doing about 2k dps on single target fights
Sin players on suicide watch
My question is what dps target is blizz going for
Like is everyone supposed to be between 3500 and 4000?
Or will they nerf the stronger specs down to 3000-3500
merry adder
literally nothing is funnier and more apt than being an (assas)sin venthyr and yet here i am. 😔
can't have shit in detroit
light kestrel
Anyone know if the Flayedwing toxin trinket has any interaction with us?
balmy condor
yeah I don't think it got whitelisted with shiv
atomic gate
Buff says 180/6 and it deals like 500/6 rather than the 669 stated on the trinket
vestal wren
i mean, there is a reason we do say that assassination is undertuned
and the statistic reflects that
deft tangle
Ow this looks bad https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#aggregate=amount
stone pilot
fleet whale
well even before that interaction was discovered
assassination wasn't nearly as bad as it is now
balmy condor
idk why people are surprised sin is really bad
fleet whale
it was basically ignored for 98% of beta so it was no surprise to me
and the only time it was "good" is when SBS was broken on beta
arctic cove
guys should i wait till next week before i make any changes?
proven ferry
Are you guys playing other specs or still sticking around to see if sin gets any better ?
balmy condor
sub atm
urban marsh
playing outlaw and sin
river hound
One message removed from a suspended account.
balmy condor
think you're looking at the pvp guide
fleet whale
or torghast guide
river hound
One message removed from a suspended account.
balmy condor
yes, it should
buoyant quest
aiight that's what I've been doing
but the application is weird where it just auto-targets your main hand so I have toswitch mainhand with offhand to put it on offhand and then switch back
balmy condor
stones are slightly better though
buoyant quest
oh okay I didn't know that thanks for the information
stoic needle
im pretty sure if you just click it twice it applies it to both weapons one after another, no weapon switching needed
ornate dawn
^this is correct
full tendon
Is sin any good in PVP atm?
balmy condor
nop
full tendon
Dang
balmy condor
yes
ivory turret
fleet whale
i'm sure there are people in the sub channel that still think the state that sin is now is ok
and that it doesn't need buffs cause "it's a good progress spec"
fleet whale
feel like the synergy would be pretty bad tbh, even if the cd's align
balmy condor
its going, lets seeeeee
hollow escarp
well, you have like 20 sec to get a good haste buff
fleet whale
exsang if anything would be nice cause of Nadjira
whole ginkgo
HAVE WE BEEN BUFFED YET?!<#
fleet whale
feel like there would be a lot of delaying going on to line up a 15% flag buff for exsang
hollow escarp
HAVE WE BEEN BUFFED YET?!<#
next tier
balmy condor
okay, venthyr on its own: -0.4%
first exsang fae: -8.3%
first exsang venthyr: -9.3%
EXSANG VIABLE YET?
fleet whale
hard to see exsang being viable at all unless if they add more synergies for it
hollow escarp
I miss Uldir with triple shrouded, exsang and the Shrine trinket
strange python
Fr shrouded should be a talent in sin tree
fleet whale
i mean if they make ss a talent what does it replace