assassination

[balmy condor]

pre patch is an unbalanced nightmare

all the specs will be tuned for 60

[ember rover]

Unbalanced FUN

[delicate trench]

everythings gonna break ?

[balmy condor]

not break

[ember rover]

Every pre-patch I played I had the most fun ever

[balmy condor]

but balance is out the window

[delicate trench]

oh lol really ? like re we op is the game op ?

[low girder]

depends on what you want to do as well, doing mythic legion raids is probably out the window for a bit

[balmy condor]

we're op

most likely

they nerf the shit out of everything in bfa

[low girder]

they will eventually

but on ptr rn i get smashed by the first trash pack in m NH

[delicate trench]

im excited now :p

[low girder]

it's kinda hilarious

[delicate trench]

how long for pre patch for you guys ?

[balmy condor]

wdym

prepatch usually lasts a month or so

[low girder]

this may or may not be a bit longer

[delicate trench]

no i meant im on eu so its tomo

[low girder]

oh

[low crane]

What time pst does prepatch drop?

[low girder]

~14h or so servers should be up

for NA

[balmy condor]

when servers come up

[low girder]

wait

[delicate trench]

are they down for you whispyr ?

[low girder]

yeah no 14h is right

[molten harbor]

3pm PST is when they say servers will be up

[balmy condor]

not yet

[low girder]

they're not down for like 8h

7am PST

[balmy condor]

yeah

they go down at 7am

and they're down till 3

[mighty elm]

🦗

[molten harbor]

Any recommendations on best way to sim for prepatch?

[balmy condor]

get a local version of simc

or just look at herodamage

as per #tc-updates

[molten harbor]

oo ty

[vestal wren]

or... just wait till pre patch is live

[balmy condor]

ye

raidbots probably updates

[vestal wren]

as raidbots will start to support the shadowlands version then

so you can probably sim your pre patch stuff in normal sims
and likely sl stuff in advanced

[balmy condor]

is seriallos pushing 9.0 simc for tomorrow?

[molten harbor]

Ye a I am just tryna get some stuff now so when it is live and I get home I can just get into playing

[balmy condor]

and wouldn't it be 9.0.2

not 9.0.1

or is he updating with a prepatch fork

his announcement seems like it would be 9.0.1

[vestal wren]

@balmy condor

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's what I was reading too

thanks :)

[vestal wren]

but that was the plan for a while

[balmy condor]

yeah I haven't been paying much attention

to raidbots announcements

[vestal wren]

he posted on 4th sept (more then a month ago) that raidbots will update with pre patch start

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

the only dps class that is not supported in pre patch is shaman

[balmy condor]

me dumb, I get it fuu

[thorn igloo]

Is the YouTube doom and gloom about sin misleading me or is the spec really that bad?

[vestal wren]

shaman iirc just purged all azerite/essence stuff from their module

[balmy condor]

its pretty far behind in beta atm

but its doubtful that it'll actually release like that

[vestal wren]

@thorn igloo people interpret to much into beta balancing. Sin does not seem strong in pre patch atm but there is no reason to think it will be bad in sl

[thorn igloo]

I was hearing some crazy stuff like rogue just missing a lot of stuff yet to be added etc

[balmy condor]

we have all our stuff

[thorn igloo]

I’m guessing ‘most’ of that has been added by now?

[balmy condor]

its just numbers

[thorn igloo]

Okay

[balmy condor]

there's bugs obviously too

bugs have been plaguing sub for all of beta

[thorn igloo]

Bugs are bugs it’s beta

[balmy condor]

yeah

the current hype bug is bugging your character with kyrian

in order to get 7cp finishers every time

[vestal wren]

we still have quite some bugs that are related to systems in sl that will get fixed sooner or later

[balmy condor]

its like fuu said though

lot of people read into beta

[vestal wren]

outside of that its just tuning

[thorn igloo]

Mmm

[balmy condor]

people wrote off kyrian as unplayable garbage

and now people are hyping it

even outside of the bug

people just like seeing the big number at the end of the sim tbh

[thorn igloo]

People are funny

[balmy condor]

even if it'll change

[vestal wren]

everyone plays kyrian because they got a very strong soulbind

[balmy condor]

yup

[vestal wren]

tuning dictates what people like/dislike.

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

btw. rogue is not the only class that exploits stuff on beta

mages exploit bugs like kings

[balmy condor]

everyone exploits bugs

[vestal wren]

but i haven't seen one player complain about mages

[balmy condor]

they're mages, they're supposed to be op

[vestal wren]

people are on the fence about sub rogue tho

but i think people might change opinion soon, as sub gets a ~8% or higher nerfs from bugfixes and talent balancing

[low girder]

kyrian sucks

😄

[delicate trench]

It seems exhausting to play with

[balmy condor]

you have 45 seconds to use the cp

its not that bad from what I hear

would be nice to have beta

[low girder]

ikr

[vestal wren]

sin is terribly slow compared to corruption sin

but corruption haste stacking was absurdly fast

[balmy condor]

corruption in general was silly

[vestal wren]

i mentioned it before, but blizz could "fix" pacing a bit by changing snd rank 2 to energy regeneration

[placid dawn]

at least now we won't get carpal tunnel while playing

[vestal wren]

a lot of ppl loved the energy ignoring gcd capped part

[balmy condor]

I spent basically all of 8.3 replacing severe's with strikes in m+ in order to avoid being hard capped on crit

super silly

[thorn igloo]

I wanna do mythic + so I’ll probably end up outlaw again

Big slashy boi

[delicate trench]

i honestly enjoyed sin m+ than outlaw m+

[balmy condor]

yea I can't stand outlaw anything

[thorn igloo]

Individual ruptures is such a task

[balmy condor]

every time I spec outlaw I feel like throwing up

[delicate trench]

atleast you dont get kicked out for not having 475 raden

[thorn igloo]

I enjoyed it in BFA

[sullen fossil]

How can you possibly enjoy outlaw btw?

[thorn igloo]

Roll the bones!

[balmy condor]

is the worst

[delicate trench]

its fun when you roll right

[thorn igloo]

Get a big roll and weeeeeee

[placid dawn]

maybe now its better, no more pressing rtb 10 times in a row

[delicate trench]

idk it has its moments

but the sin ❤️

[balmy condor]

rtb is just a headache

[delicate trench]

its so consistent

[balmy condor]

in general

[delicate trench]

well true xD

[balmy condor]

I don't like all the ranged stuff personally as well

[delicate trench]

but it can be fun too :p

[balmy condor]

and I also dislike that there's nothing from stealth

but that's all opinion stuff

they get gouge

and no one else

so they can go fuck themselves

:)

[sullen fossil]

Is like a dh without wings

[delicate trench]

screw dhs ...

[thorn igloo]

Grappling hook is eets

And cleave is fun

I loved sweeping strikes arms warrior too

[balmy condor]

idk

gouge just seems too much tbh

being able to lock down a mob for like 45 seconds is insane

[delicate trench]

but we have 3 silences for 8 secs and damage reduction doesnt that make up for gouge ?

[balmy condor]

not really

its nice, sure

but the silence doesn't work on some of the bigger mobs

and even then, 3 silences is often not better than being able to lock 1 mob

[delicate trench]

gouge works on every single mob ? 😮

[balmy condor]

gouge works on basically everything yeah

but if you think about it

how often do you actually have 3 full casters in a pack

its 1-2 usually

[delicate trench]

cant think of any except atal and ur

[balmy condor]

and being able to lock that 1 caster

usually better than being able to silence 3, when 2 aren't even casting

its also not conditional

so if your group fucks up a kick rotation

you still have gouge

gg just gouge it

[delicate trench]

yeah true

[fallow otter]

how often do you actually have 3 full casters in a pack
@balmy condor it's usually used for stuff that can't be kicked tho

[balmy condor]

sure

so is gouge

its an incap

makes no difference

imo its just too much utility to have on a single spec

rogue already has a huge toolkit in m+

gouge is just another block on top of that

[delicate trench]

agree

[balmy condor]

its just shouldn't exist tbh

[fallow otter]

Get out

[delicate trench]

but itd be nice if we were huge damage dealers in SL

[fallow otter]

It's been a staple

[delicate trench]

and not just wanted for shrouds

[balmy condor]

and its been overbearing

[fallow otter]

Should have been made baseline in sl

Like it used to be

[balmy condor]

sap X, blind orange, pull the pack

[delicate trench]

LOL XD

[balmy condor]

and you're telling me a kidney, AND a gouge

bruh

[fallow otter]

That's how it was

[balmy condor]

yes

and I don't think that should exist

[delicate trench]

i dont think outlaw has kidney

[fallow otter]

It does after reset

[delicate trench]

im 90% certain it doesnt :p

[balmy condor]

it does

[vestal wren]

all 3 specs have kidney in pre patch/sl

[delicate trench]

oh okay

[balmy condor]

bte used to be kidney

and now it just gets kidney

[vestal wren]

bte loses the stun

[balmy condor]

yep

[delicate trench]

so a free stun outside of rotaion 🙂

[low girder]

tbf it's less free

than it was

[fallow otter]

CP isn't free

[balmy condor]

at least they lose damage for it now

[low girder]

there's good and bad to the change, but it's more healthy overall

[delicate trench]

i mean you can use it when ever

[balmy condor]

sure

but you're not getting damage out of it

where as before

you got both at once

[low girder]

and the extra from prey

[delicate trench]

bte is a part of the rotation but kidney is outside of it thats what i meant

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's good

[fallow otter]

Im still wondering whether it could be worth a 1cp ks for prey on prio target if group focuses for coordinated

Im assuming easy yes

[balmy condor]

ye its pretty good

but usually just better to hold for utility

strictly speaking though

it is worth

[delicate trench]

we did in hive with 3 rogues

it was super easy

melted them

[fallow otter]

Rogue us a poor man's dk on hive lol

Rogue is a poor man's dk on hive lol
@fallow otter

[delicate trench]

hahahah xDDDD

[balmy condor]

it's not THAT noticeable

its definitely something though

something to keep us relevant

before cloak doesn't work on anything anymore :)

[fallow otter]

Castle bleed

Rip

[balmy condor]

[delicate trench]

im gonna ss tho

[low girder]

just be kyrian

🤢

[balmy condor]

dwarf racial better utility than rogue

[delicate trench]

whats dwarf racial ?

[balmy condor]

removes effects

and it removes bleeds

[low girder]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=20594/stoneform

[balmy condor]

which is useful cause nathria has bleeds

[low girder]

lmao

didn't mean for the pic

[balmy condor]

and cloak doesn't

[fallow otter]

Kyrian removes one stack

[low girder]

dark iron's better tbh

just in that aspect

[balmy condor]

this is actually 5head play by blizzard

make ally racials more relevant

by designing fights that can be abused by them

[delicate trench]

but why ?

[balmy condor]

then once the population evens out

ez pz

gg

[vestal wren]

or... they just forgot to add it to the whitelisting

[balmy condor]

nah

blizz would never forget to whitelist something

when have they ever cough covenant abilities cough

done that

before

[vestal wren]

def. never happened

[balmy condor]

if I weren't laughing about it I would be crying

[low girder]

deeper daggers?

never heard of it

[vestal wren]

conduits are not balanced

[balmy condor]

deeper daggers is ALL shadow damage mata

[vestal wren]

but: https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/status/1315376384299069440

Ion Hazzikostas (@WatcherDev)

@Horrlock @Wowhead Trinkets are still largely untuned. The team's primary focus is baseline class abilities (especially since they're live this week), followed by covenant abilities and perks, and then specific item effects. But we'll take an early look at outliers that are h...

Likes

167

Twitter

[low girder]

yeah i know

[vestal wren]

expect balancing to come sooner or later

[balmy condor]

go back and farm draught from nighthold

and be happy about it

god damnit

[low girder]

reroll undead

or void elf

[balmy condor]

but then no dwarf bleed immune

you're trolling

[vestal wren]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[low girder]

but big dam

look at this sim dps

[vestal wren]

wait, why is herodamage 404

letme check

[low girder]

works for me

[balmy condor]

works for me

fuu's internet shitting the bed

[vestal wren]

okay, was my cache i assume

[balmy condor]

[low girder]

[balmy condor]

let me just look up my favorite shaman sims

[vestal wren]

i think blindside and ma are farily strong

[balmy condor]

yeah

this is omega yikes

[vestal wren]

#wow-general message

^ just sim it later today

[delicate trench]

reroll undead for raid in all seriousness ?

[low girder]

no

[balmy condor]

no

[vestal wren]

def. no

[balmy condor]

racials don't matter one way or the other mostly

we're just memeing

[low girder]

i was trolling about a conduit sub has that hasn't gotten a whitelist yet

[delicate trench]

okay okay :p

[balmy condor]

bugs

highest VR sim is only 4% behind mata

[low girder]

and yeah, i prolly will. although my char's been the basis for a bunch of whispyr's sims

[balmy condor]

its happening

[low girder]

lmao

[vestal wren]

undead is even with deeper dagger not the best pick

so ^^

[balmy condor]

fuu don't ruin my fantasy

[fallow otter]

What herodmg using for default Azerite traits?

[balmy condor]

I think highest combo

but I could be wrong

[vestal wren]

shit dps *2 = still shit dps

[low girder]

[fallow otter]

Haha yeh

[balmy condor]

im surprised we haven't gotten more "oh my god the numbers are so small now wtf that's so boring"

its been pretty tame

[fallow otter]

I ain't playin sin for prepatch though

Gonna use this time to play ww and stuff

[low girder]

oh, i was gonna say

play everything, it's the only time you'll get

[fallow otter]

Coz my alts got all the ilvl and cbf cloak haha

Only lock and rogue are 12/12m

[vestal wren]

deeper dagger rank 7:

[low girder]

just need r15

and for them not to whitelist

[balmy condor]

wrong channel fuu

[low girder]

by then

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

ye was about to say that it should be #subtlety

[low girder]

lol

[vestal wren]

but i will be a nice guy

and run it for sin too

[fallow otter]

Very subtle

[low girder]

vulpera so high

wtf

isn't it near the bottom rn

[delicate trench]

i want 12/12 too :/

[cold patio]

nice to see undead that high 🙂

[fallow otter]

Starts good scales badly, UD always the same also

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

undead is only that high because of deeper dagger

[low girder]

tbf undead being carried

yeah

[vestal wren]

sin:

[cold patio]

yeah

[low girder]

no no no no

i do not accept this

[balmy condor]

I welcome our furry overlords

[fallow otter]

It was bis at the start of bfa coz of the dot, not the same?

[balmy condor]

my 0.4% dps loss playing belf

unacceptable

blizz pls fix

[low girder]

nerf vulpera

[vestal wren]

assassination numbers is lower because it has no convenant and conduit

[balmy condor]

@low girder well in theory, orc is in margin of error

[low girder]

doesn't matter, nerf vulpera

not allowed

[balmy condor]

fuu can you run that sim over and over until orc is on top?

[vestal wren]

margin of error is ~2 dps

[balmy condor]

[low girder]

lmao

[cold patio]

^^

[crimson palm]

Horde noobz

[vestal wren]

not 4

[balmy condor]

unlucky

[vestal wren]

i mean its +- 2

so best case its "the same"

[balmy condor]

can you make your sim less precise

and then resim until its on top

[low girder]

i assume no race is blood elf default

[balmy condor]

like maybe just 10 iterations?

[vestal wren]

[low girder]

nice to see everything nice and close though

easier to point out to people with the smaller numbers

[balmy condor]

yeah

[high spire]

Rename to Bladefurry it is

[balmy condor]

[delicate trench]

+1 to blade furry

[balmy condor]

this is the darkest timeline

[delicate trench]

wonder how a tauren rogue would look like

[low girder]

this is why i said nerf vulpera

[vestal wren]

i love how everything that we don't like needs to be nerfed

[low girder]

that's how it works

[vestal wren]

remember when celerity worked cross spec?

😛

[low girder]

i don't like alacrity, nerf pls

[balmy condor]

I don't like life, pls nerf me from it

[low girder]

mood

[fallow otter]

Whisp wants to delete gouge, I'm still in shock and feel betrayed

[vestal wren]

not sure how close VR is

[balmy condor]

I've always been stark anti-gouge

VR 4% behind

[vestal wren]

ah still needs a slight buff

[balmy condor]

double it.

:)

[fallow otter]

Would 10 be enough

[balmy condor]

[vestal wren]

10 probably would be better ye

[low girder]

buff exsang

[vestal wren]

8 seems still a bit to low

[low girder]

make everyone who isn't me mad

[ruby ibex]

I 100% missed something, and I apologize - why/how is Kyrian top for Ass? Doesn't it empower a random CP and entirely fail to synergize with how Ass crits work?

[vestal wren]

buff exsang
exsang is even on 400% (legion pre patch value) bad

[low girder]

fuck

[balmy condor]

it empowers a CP

we use CP

the ability also does decent damage

[vestal wren]

kyrian is top for all rogue specs

[balmy condor]

and the soulbind is strong

[prisma yoke]

we use CP
shocking revelations

[vestal wren]

bc. the ability is strong AND their soulbind is strong

[balmy condor]

I know

we only big brian here

[low girder]

big brain and big ego

[balmy condor]

tb is op playstyle

[ruby ibex]

So, everything else is strong enough that if we can not pass the empowered, it's fine? Like "oops it empowered 3 and Mut gave 4"

[low girder]

yeah you have 45s to hit it

long time

[vestal wren]

big brain is using shiv in pre patch

[balmy condor]

fuu don't share all my secrets

how am I gonna parse

[low girder]

ideal usage would be to envenom within shiv debuff window if you can game it with a garrote refresh

iirc

[balmy condor]

yes

[low girder]

but if you can't then w/e

[ruby ibex]

Oh, I misunderstood the ability totally then, I thought it empowered it for the full duration

[fallow otter]

You guys ready to shiv just before something enrages in m plus, it's the bte in sanguine equiv

[low girder]

nah just the once

[ruby ibex]

That makes a lot more sense

[balmy condor]

the next finisher you use on the cp

that's empowered

so if it empowers the 3rd

the next finisher you cast at 3cp will be empowered

and then it goes away

until the next cast

[low girder]

also i think the shiv enrage dispel is still bugged

LOL

[vestal wren]

just before something enrages in m plus
i did hide a hint in this image for you:

[low girder]

maybe they'll fix it by tomorrow

in beta*

[fallow otter]

Press F6

[balmy condor]

is my iq too low to understand the meme fuu

!iq?

[vestal wren]

shiv needs numbing poison to dispell

[low girder]

^

[vestal wren]

numbing poison is level 54

[balmy condor]

okay

....

[fallow otter]

I don't mean pre patch

[balmy condor]

I don't get it

[fallow otter]

What

[balmy condor]

[low girder]

!bugs

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Bug tracker: https://github.com/SimCMinMax/WoW-BugTracker/labels/Rogue

[vestal wren]

you can't dispell enrage in pre patch

[balmy condor]

oh

we're talking prepatch

[vestal wren]

because the poison you need is not there till 54

[low girder]

yeah it's still broken according to that, lol

[balmy condor]

ha ha funny joke and I'm a part of it

:-)

[fallow otter]

I ain't speaking pre patch

[vestal wren]

did you test it on beta?

i think it should work

[fallow otter]

I pressed f6 when I did

I didn't try last night

Been a big gap since I did

[vestal wren]

possible that it works next update

[fallow otter]

I cbf seeing up another figure until lastnight

But I went flag found out it's bugged

[balmy condor]

isn't it still bugged

from last week

[fallow otter]

Then missed the part in the quest to skip all the bs

So I had to go do 3 venth wqs

And they are like 15min quests

Im 2/3

Lol

[low girder]

also no i didn't test on beta because that would require beta

[balmy condor]

[fallow otter]

So I went and giggled my tits off playing party animals, highly recommend, warning #off-topic

[lapis lantern]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide

[carmine osprey]

Shame to hear the spec is painfully slow in SL, hopefully that gets tuned up a bit

[balmy condor]

its not painfully slow imo

sin has always been a slower spec

[carmine osprey]

Oh yeah and its absolutely fine as the slower spec

[balmy condor]

lot of people are used to the exped stacking 60apm sin

[carmine osprey]

Just everything I heard was that it was far too slow, very few envenoms

[balmy condor]

its not that bad tbh

its like 40-45 with some raid gear

[low girder]

if you've played sin pre-8.2 it's pretty much that

[balmy condor]

ye

and honestly the whole "less envenoms" thing is a weird argument to me

snd is once every 40ish seconds

in 5 min sims with opener and all you're only casting it like 8-9 times

its strictly less envenoms, sure

[vestal wren]

how "slow" it is comes down to what you compare it to

[balmy condor]

but its not really huge

and considering slice is giga damage, doesn't bother me much

[vestal wren]

current corruption makes it absurdly fast so if you like that and are used to it it will feel a lot slower

[lapis lantern]

which assa legendary is recommanded for goin m+?

[balmy condor]

zoldyck

[carmine osprey]

As long as you get that iconic pooling gameplay im good

Skipped BFA so not experienced the corruption madness

[balmy condor]

pooling hasn't been required for a long long time

[low girder]

yeah it doesn't do much

it will be closer to what you're used to though, speed-wise

[balmy condor]

yeah

[low girder]

also whispyr you got any prepatch or SL sims handy

just want a rough ballpark of how many env's you get

[balmy condor]

Uhhh

Yeah lemme check

[low girder]

'cause i would wager it's not that dissimilar to now with CT

lol

[balmy condor]

It’s probably similar yeah

[low girder]

oh whoops that was 3m, derp

[balmy condor]

Ballpark 35 casts on a 5min with nightfae

[low girder]

i'm resimming 'cause i'm dumb

[balmy condor]

Nice

[low girder]

47 at 5m

on live

[tropic jackal]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide

[balmy condor]

Ye, 41apm + 9 casts of snd

10 almost

[low girder]

yeah i simmed again to make sure, 47 casts on live, which feels like more to do with losing the haste than needing to hit snd

[balmy condor]

Ye

[crimson palm]

hi new rouge here waht is best covenent

[vestal wren]

its in the pins

[delicate trench]

kyrian

[crimson palm]

i only trust @balmy condor

rest imposters

[fleet sinew]

Dm him then

[balmy condor]

That’s your first mistake

[delicate trench]

hes teh 3rd imposter

[balmy condor]

If you trust me, and I trust fuu

Then I trust the pins

And you should too

[fleet sinew]

Solid porm

Poem

[balmy condor]

Tyty

[crimson palm]

is transitive property work in rouge discord??

[balmy condor]

Bugged atm

Waiting for balancing

[crimson palm]

so i should not trust pins

if transitive is bug

[balmy condor]

[vagrant loom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eA52J8J1rE

Opinions on this?

[crimson palm]

he's a garbage player

ofc it's gonna feel like garbage to play

[vagrant loom]

Serious question

[crimson palm]

im serious

[vestal wren]

give me a tl;dr of the video and we can discuss

hemo, pls be less insulting in your expression

[crimson palm]

its not an insult, its just how things are

[compact parrot]

Hey guys, quick question: So we completely lose TB with the prepatch? Its not baseline or anything? Its just gone?

[vestal wren]

shiv will get a similar effect on your way to level 60

what means you lose a button in short term

[compact parrot]

But what will be the playstyle centered around if not trying to press as many envenoms as possible in the TB window?

[sand pewter]

maintaining bleeds and snd really

[crimson palm]

and pray for vop procs

[compact parrot]

sounds ... engaging^^

[sand pewter]

ill probably just reroll to sub for a bit tbh

[crimson palm]

just play ur alts

[sand pewter]

nah I like rogue, just not the sin rotation on beta

[near pilot]

I love how he messes up and shrouds mid pull in that video

[ruby idol]

I mean tbf, without Dashing the spec feels very poorly put together on beta IMO

You could make the argument that we don't have enough gear, or numbers can be tuned so the damage is there all you want.

But a legendary having that big an impact on how a spec feels I think is worrying no?

[strange python]

Dashing should be baseline

[vague rock]

@vagrant loom idk I don't think the gameplay is bad at all, the main issue is it just doesn't do much damage yet

[sand pewter]

the apm is just really really low right now

[vague rock]

but it at least offers a unique playstyle compared to sub and outlaw

would be nice if it was a little bit less global locked

atm you are on a fairly strict cycle of reapplying a bunch of timers

[sullen pagoda]

@crimson palm infex grabbing dem easy views with "assa on start of exp gameplay is bad"

[summer marten]

Except assassination is 10 times worse this exp

[tropic ocean]

@sullen pagoda his release-cycle drastically increased

and dont forget to like and subscribe

the apm is just really really low right now
@sand pewter I mean it was for uldir and bod as well and to some extent in ep too

as of now dashing scoundrel is not far behind doomblade so if u want a faster pace, just run dashing

[near pilot]

If the numbers were bigger nobody would care

[tropic ocean]

but thats a mental problem

doesnt matter if u do 2k dps to a 200k health mob or 2mil dps to a 2bil health mob or w/e

[winter flicker]

hi all, in the new expension ther will be covenants, what is good for assassination?

[faint harness]

dismissing the truth because his name is a meme

[topaz saffron]

Sorry to ask, but does the Doomblade Legendary Effect bleed work with Venomous Wounds at all?

[tame sigil]

Hey guys, probably been asked to death but whats stronger in prepatch Sub or Assa? I mean purely in prepatch, without covenant abilities etc

[shrewd night]

Looking away from the fact you didnt mention what content, how geared you are or how prepatch balance is whack.. Play what you want. Nobody should care about prepatch memes.

[still vessel]

do you think sub still be strongest like that?

[tame sigil]

485, it will be for purely ST as I offspec Outlaw for AOE

Also it doesn't matter but its still crap to see yourself down on the meters just because your spec is busted

[still vessel]

yeah

[dry wren]

Herodamage has updated values for prepatch, seems like sub is ahead ~10%

[tame sigil]

Awesome stuff, ty! 🙂

[strange python]

Is simming accurate right now for us or should i not even bother

[unkempt marsh]

without corruption, do we go back to dd for azerite?

[tame sigil]

For purely ST I think so yeah

[marble hemlock]

undulating tides is back 😮

[lean marten]

inb4 someone deletes everything with 3x FoK build in prepatch

[nimble garnet]

hey guys, how is assa looking into SL raid so far?

[vestal wren]

everyone played subtlety in raid due to a (by the time) busted legendary item

also balancing is not in favor of #assassination

[fleet anchor]

My take would be: Assassination feels like garbage to play because we lost all of our haste, the baseline spec is not fast enough, and the numbers tuning needs some work.

There is some silver lining in that Blindside is actually kinda nice now

But for pre-patch, losing access to Toxic Blade (since Shiv Rank 2 is not available yet) is rather unfortunate

The reality is, though, that unless they hotfix the Assassination passive, the spec is far, far behind for prepatch

[grand cosmos]

Been lurking in all channels and actually like all specs but snd for sin compared to sub and outlaw feels abit off ?

[fleet anchor]

Yes it's not very good

But also the Rank 2 is not implemented correctly

So that is a big reason why

I have heard they are reconsidering how the Rank 2 works for Assassination to make it more useful though

[grand cosmos]

Sounds promising

[crimson palm]

SnD has a 3% chance to proc vendetta on your active target for 1-10 seconds

EZ

300 iq

[placid dawn]

plese no

[strange python]

snd should be refreshing when using rup or env

[smoky bluff]

here, a bad idea: if the current target has any bleed, SnD activates HfB that increases all the energy gains by 100% for the SnD duration

[marble hemlock]

Rank 2: Slice and Dice now also increases the energy generated by Venomous Wounds the longer you attack the same target, up to 100% at 20 seconds.

[royal lantern]

here is a good idea, remove SnD as a ability cus its 1 of the worst abilitys in the entire game 🙂

[marble hemlock]

Or alternatively: Rank 2: Slice and Dice now also increases your action speed by 10% if you attack the same target for 10 seconds or longer.

[strange python]

venom wounds should do dmg again, like in wod

so it would stack with snd

bäm, snd is viable

[smoky bluff]

new passive mutation/evilution/gift of the ruinous powers, SnD has a 5% per CP of spawning a third arm that attacks the current target, every attack recovers 4 energy, the mutation arm can activate procs and crits, uses OH damage

[marble hemlock]

snd doesnt have any effect on venomous wounds though. its the other way around

bleed ticks trigger VW

[strange python]

it would, if venomous wounds would do dmg, every time instant poison hits

[marble hemlock]

snd has no bearance on that

its bleed ticks on poisoned targets, not poison ticks on bleed targets

[strange python]

but i could^^

[marble hemlock]

would make VW way too powerful in aoe

as every fok would trigger it on every bled target

[strange python]

just do some sync with these traits

[marble hemlock]

they could potentialyl redesign the spec around that

but i dont feel thats the correct approach since itll heavily force us into haste for dps

more than we already are

[strange python]

snd could also just give haste instead of atkspeed

but i would like to see some improvements around vm

[shrewd night]

Rank 2: Slice and Dice now also increases your action speed by 10% if you attack the same target for 10 seconds or longer.
How to make the return of agonizing poison playstyle v2

[fleet anchor]

I suspect they will just make SnD have passive energy regen% for Assassination as it has in the past

[balmy condor]

Just attack speed :)

[wooden osprey]

Which covenant looks good for Sin right now? I keep seeing different opinions on the forums.

[balmy condor]

In the pins

There’s sims attached

[wooden osprey]

Aaah thank you

[balmy condor]

Also god bless your soul for looking at class forums

[wooden osprey]

.<

[balmy condor]

That’s the darkest corner of the internet

[wooden osprey]

lol it's entertaining at the very least...

[royal lantern]

you talk about the offical forum?

[balmy condor]

Idk any other forums

[royal lantern]

bruh

i wouldnt go in there even with a hazmat suit

srsly

[past mauve]

sigh why did it have to be Kyrian -- so unlike a rogues look -- Im now a paladin looking rogue 😦

[royal lantern]

dont use the kyrian mog

????

[balmy condor]

You don’t have to be kyrian either

They’re all close enough

[royal lantern]

that too

[past mauve]

true

[royal lantern]

jesus

[pliant apex]

@past mauve youre pretty

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/card-no-u-wave-uno-card-gif-15455638

[balmy condor]

[past mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/twerk-tina-bobs-burgers-gif-11222933

[royal lantern]

no simping in spec channels pls

whisp is allready suffering enough

[noble pilot]

ns go to talent when tho

[surreal solar]

No

[balmy condor]

Never

Get That trash out of here

[pliant apex]

is assasination looking no 1 for SL

[balmy condor]

No

Get that trash out of here

[royal lantern]

yes

maybe

[pliant apex]

also sry for simping, will stop

[balmy condor]

We already have a resident simp

[pliant apex]

im sure

[outer condor]

can i meet him

[balmy condor]

Go into OT and ping bodeeny

Anyway

[pliant apex]

shouldn't have said that, guess just sexually frustrated, not the place to show that tho

[balmy condor]

Sin bad

Snd bad

Shiv bad

Spec dead

Play havoc

:)

[outer condor]

at least until 9.2 when they inevitably switch things up

and then sin is viable again but even more dull and sub just can't catch a break

also outlaw now has two guns

[jolly comet]

outlaw gets aoe blunderbuss

[noble pilot]

outlaw reworked to ranged spec

pewpew

[jolly comet]

sin gets more attk speed

[balmy condor]

Outlaw can equip guns

Turns into 4th hunter spec

9.2 patch notes very secret

[outer condor]

outlaw main hand is gun, offhand is throwing dagger

their talent that increases range

increases it by 30 yards

[balmy condor]

[outer condor]

so now they're throwing sinisters from capital cities

[surreal solar]

Servers still down for maintenance yes?

[sand flax]

yup

[inner latch]

zzzzz

[outer condor]

it'll be up in 2 hrs give or take

[unborn ruin]

3*

[untold stream]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide

[untold stream]

Anyone has anything else than Wowhead ?

[balmy condor]

nope

prepatch guides don't exist

:)

[untold stream]

Meh, I'll just do the same that I did with full expedient and pull more then

[balmy condor]

[crimson palm]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rGC6WpHvzhkbLX7d/#fight=last&type=damage-done

nzoth 79 corruption kill

last day of the patch

ez

[balmy condor]

you wanna check that link buddy

[crimson palm]

is there a way to check

if someone else has killed him with 79

[fleet anchor]

I think he's more mentioning your link is broken 😄

No report could be found with the specified code. If you are trying to view a private report, make sure you are logged in.

[crimson palm]

oh kek

private log

should be fine lul

[hasty vale]

What azerite power do we go for prepatch? Assuming the bleed spec is dead

[young vessel]

well i’ve read whole wowhead today and about the stat squish i suppose that garrote exsang is dead and we going back to TB MA vendetta burst

[hasty vale]

Its what I figure as well

[balmy condor]

dd/np

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[young vessel]

ye dd np ma tb

back to 8.2 shit

[balmy condor]

subt

no tb

alacrity

don't use shiv

[hasty vale]

Just take that shit off the bar?

[young vessel]

we’ll see, gonna wait for some logs before thursdays raid

[balmy condor]

until shadowlands

yeah

[hasty vale]

Rocki boi for main trait I'm assuming.

[balmy condor]

you can just look at the sims

breath, flame, clf, and worldvein are all good

[hasty vale]

Lol who has pieces with ancients' bulwark just laying around XD

[crimson palm]

is there srsly no way to filter by corruption on wlogs?

[balmy condor]

ancients bulwark only exists on warfront gear

so its not usable

[young vessel]

em, is raidbots gonna work correcly 1st day of prepatch?

[balmy condor]

yes

raidbots is already updated

people have been simming from ptr

[young vessel]

cool

btw what were the main stats before exsang build

[jaunty crystal]

there's a 9.01 version of simcraft you can use on the ptr atm if you want to try it out

[young vessel]

crit vers or crit haste

[balmy condor]

before exsang build

it was haste crit mast vers

[young vessel]

okae

[jaunty crystal]

vers has been sins worst stat all expac pretty much iirc

[balmy condor]

in prepatch you're looking for vers crit

[tropic ocean]

vers has been sins worst stat all expac pretty much iirc
@jaunty crystal nope

[young vessel]

jesus i dont want to say goodbye to exsang, it was really fun to play, finally some „aoe” capability for assasination, garrote tab garrote tab garrote was fun

[tropic ocean]

don't need exsang for that

[balmy condor]

that has nothing to do with exsang

[young vessel]

well i know

[tropic ocean]

exsang just heavily increased apm

[young vessel]

but huge haste was doing the job

[tropic ocean]

which made a slow spec feel better

well haste did

[balmy condor]

ss was doing the job

[tropic ocean]

but it happened to synergize well with exsang

[young vessel]

hope you guys will blast nyalotha tommorow so i can check out logs at thursday 😛

[balmy condor]

prepatch logs

[tropic ocean]

hope blizzard doesnt fuck up everything

[balmy condor]

[tropic ocean]

and you end up reprogressing

and just call raid

[young vessel]

ye thats why we doing heroic first lol (my guild)

[split grail]

So we only use ambush if we're specced into blindside?

[balmy condor]

no

[split grail]

The new wowhead rotation only mentions it in relation to blindside

[balmy condor]

you still cast it from stealth

[young vessel]

garrote garrote ambush?

[balmy condor]

without SS you wouldn't garrote twice

[split grail]

That's only is you use subt though

[young vessel]

oh true lol

[balmy condor]

subt is the go to talent

ye

[young vessel]

actually i hope sub will be top spec in SL

doing dd dd envenom 90% of fight is kinda booooring

[balmy condor]

ss ss evisc is better?

[young vessel]

welll theres much more cds to work with than just vendy 😛

[fleet sinew]

Sorry if already answered how is sin lookin on prepatch

[balmy condor]

worse than sub

[split grail]

I'm not too worried about any azerite traits, that craps going away in a few weeks

[young vessel]

few weeks

[balmy condor]

technically 6 weeks is a few

[young vessel]

true but still 😐

[split grail]

I mean, I don't care about my pre-patch dps. I'm just trying to learn the rotation for SL

[balmy condor]

and then it'll get tuned

and change

and you'll have learnt the wrong rotation

but tbh

[young vessel]

well assasination isnt anything hard if they dont change it 180 degrees

[balmy condor]

sin rotation has been the same thing

for the last 6 years

adding snd doesn't change it

[young vessel]

vanish vendetta burst then dd envenom and keep up the dots

[split grail]

True, but the opener varies depending on talents

[young vessel]

true

[balmy condor]

and it'll vary depending on tuning as well

and covenant

[young vessel]

hard to say for now, maybe the MA legendary be viable

[balmy condor]

that

probably not

[tropic ocean]

same rotation for last 6 years

very questionable

[balmy condor]

oh sorry

I forget

[final saffron]

but we got now, totally different

[balmy condor]

we used exsang for like 3 patches

[tropic ocean]

legion playstyle was pretty different to bfa

[balmy condor]

[young vessel]

the thing that scares me is me and DH are only melees in my guild for SL lol

[tropic ocean]

but thats great

[balmy condor]

that scares you?

[tropic ocean]

no competition

[balmy condor]

less melee in the group

[young vessel]

well 5 locks are gonna blast so i kinda like it

but i just like having a rogue bud to compete inside the guild :d

[royal lantern]

im going off and i wish you good luck with staying sane during this prepatch insanity whispyr

[young vessel]

well for now the competition was whoever got the blightborne procs on burst lol

[balmy condor]

ty ty

[tropic ocean]

[ruby ibex]

Half my guild wants to switch to rogue, half to DK, and half to Spriest. We're all exceedingly bad at math.

[young vessel]

well i got like 4-5 locks 3 hunters 2 mages 1 spr

and me and dh

Xd

[royal lantern]

tell the people that want too roll rogue that dh sims higher then sub

and they will stop talking about rogue 🙂

[young vessel]

so you going off to DH discord?

[royal lantern]

and going priest as main dps is always a gigantic idiot move lol

like

if you play priest and wanna main dps

oh boi, you gonna love it when its not that great,wich happens quite often

priest is still the class you should roll if you wanna heal, not dps as a main thing

[balmy condor]

but they had a rework tryan

how could they be bad

[ruby ibex]

They're very distracted by "shiney new" methinks

[royal lantern]

when they are weaker number wise for 1-2 tiers again and you gonna do lower dps and then people cry about BEEING FORCED TOO REROLL WTF BLIZZ

🙂

like, priest as "main"character when you wanna dps is not a smart move

[young vessel]

well having a buff is cool when our raid healers is 2x pala restosham and druid

[balmy condor]

spriest reworks are overhyped thanks for coming to my ted talk

[royal lantern]

simply because its quite possible that your only dps option can be bad

[ruby ibex]

applause

[royal lantern]

and @balmy condor bruh, the dh bigbrain in our guild was crying that dh is soooooooo bad the entire alpha and beta, changing weekly "im gonna reroll sub rogue! no im gonna roll warrior! no im gonna reroll dk!!!" and now that dh has high sims again he said he is just gonna stay dh

thats your brain on dh right there

[balmy condor]

seems legit

[marble magnet]

Would you say assassin is easier than outlaw?

[balmy condor]

depends on you

they're both pretty easy

[royal lantern]

pretty much the same difficulty tbh

[fleet whale]

outlaw may be slightly easier now with the RTB change

but neither spec is hard

[fleet sinew]

Stick to outlaw for m plus and sub or assa for st

[balmy condor]

bte isn't freelo stun tho varo

[fleet whale]

freelo stun?

what does that even mean

[balmy condor]

you have to turn on brain for stun

[young vessel]

sanguine bte mmmmm... lovin it

anyone has done some sims throught PTR? if yes link it please! C:

[balmy condor]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[fleet whale]

what weapons enchants are we using for pre patch? gale force?

[balmy condor]

ye

[fleet whale]

and what about for the off hand?

[balmy condor]

dunno

vers nav probably fine

its simmable

:D

[sand pewter]

none of my characters are showing up lol

shadowlands amiright

[frank epoch]

i keep getting logged off

[balmy condor]

#wow-general

[frank epoch]

rengosa got perma squished

char delete

[balmy condor]

still #wow-general

go complain bout patch day there

:)

[sand pewter]

hey i just think its funny

but yes #wow-general

[delicate trench]

please pin what talents and builds and working best for pre patch

[balmy condor]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide

[balmy condor]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[balmy condor]

use them

or sim yourself :)

cause that works now

[delicate trench]

pre patch is not out for me till tomo :/

[balmy condor]

you can use ptr imports

[strange python]

is anyone in

[balmy condor]

yes, many people

#wow-general

please and tahnk you

[royal lantern]

whispr keeping the channel clean

[void pecan]

God damn, I have to redo talents and learn how to play again.

[balmy condor]

its the same thing

with snd

[low girder]

and no TB

[void pecan]

talents the one in pins?

[balmy condor]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[balmy condor]

check the combinations

[void pecan]

Hmm.

[marsh bloom]

So do we ever use shiv?

[balmy condor]

not in prepatch

[frank epoch]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide

[fleet whale]

but it does 98 physical damage

that's so op

[winter glade]

So does 3 Heart of Darkness beat 2 HoD + 1 NP?

[balmy condor]

probably

if you have enough haste

pretty marginal I would think though

play whatever you prefer

or hod if you're looking to do m+

[noble pilot]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[fleet whale]

same

[noble pilot]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[balmy condor]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[neat topaz]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[dry thicket]

can i macro mutilate and ambush together so it ambushes when blindside procs?

[balmy condor]

no

[dry thicket]

unlucky

[strange python]

3x SS still go to in raid?

generally

[balmy condor]

no

dd hod np

[crimson palm]

U might still wanna raid with 3 SS

Depending on how nya is tuned

[balmy condor]

ye

[lunar whale]

so as a sin rogue do you throw vanish ambush into your rotation?

[marble hemlock]

gonna depend on traits and stuff

and talents

if you run MA, chances are using envenom/mut/envenom as a sequence during MA is gonna be better dps than getting that ambush in there and only 1 finisher

if you run subter, chances are youll be running SS still and that means youd rather use garrote > finisher > garrote for pandemic garrote

[past mauve]

Is the 0 in the suggested ST spec that fuu posted mean its personal choice? I figure so but want to be sure

[balmy condor]

yes

[past mauve]

thanks!

[balmy condor]

also with DD you're going to always use mut over ambush unless its a blindside proc

[marble hemlock]

that as well, yeah

theres a few rotational priorities right now that will be exclusive to prepatch and are usually based on things like TB no longer being a thing, azerite traits that boost certain abilities or a lack of abilities/traits that boost certain things etc.

[balmy condor]