assassination

[sturdy dust]

For some dungeons 3 TTK 2 SS 1 EB is more effective

[solid nova]

Echoing Blades

[normal quail]

How come DD isnt better than TTK? Neither of them have a CD

[woven summit]

Is it smarter to save our titan residium for 445 azerite gear instead of spending it on 430?

[solid nova]

Yes

[bronze kelp]

with 2 eb 2 ttk 2 ss your are in a good state for every dungeon and every affix comb

[woven summit]

Yeah that's what I'll do

[fallow otter]

save, but the real question is, do you want to gamble

[woven summit]

I'll gamble

[bronze kelp]

that should be your trait setup to aim for first. just to be most flexible

[woven summit]

Have to gamble no other choice

[normal quail]

Im going for the 430 items, the 445 are way to expensive for me

[woven summit]

Nah you'll get more titan residium

in chests and stuff

[bronze kelp]

@normal quail cause dd is a pure ST trait, u only use mutilate in boss fights at all. so on trash u have 0 benefit

[sturdy dust]

the price will adjust next week

[woven summit]

after reset I think

yeah

[upbeat geode]

storms do we know how much we get?

[woven summit]

So alyN I think it's best to save it

[sturdy dust]

They wanted to make it impossible to get before Mythic EP is released next week

[woven summit]

Not sure but the currency we get should increase next week

[sturdy dust]

Think we'll get 4k or so this week from the Weekly Chest

[bronze kelp]

4k?

[normal quail]

@bronze kelp but isnt TTK the same? it hits only 1 target right?

[sturdy dust]

4k residuum

[small island]

wont we get like 20k?

[upbeat geode]

4k residuum for a +10 or a +15?

[bronze kelp]

@normal quail yes but, you use finishers in aoe fights, so you can dump into envenom

[dusky tinsel]

if you did like an 18 or so I think thats 24kish

[bronze kelp]

a +15 gives 21500

[sick eagle]

a 15 is 21k more or less 10 is 17k iirc

[sturdy dust]

ah, okay I'm wrong then. my bad. how much for a 10+ 1 key?

[bronze kelp]

you need 2-3 weeks with a +10 and the other stuff around to get a 445 piece

[woven summit]

to get a specific piece or just to gamble?

[sturdy dust]

to gamble

[dusky tinsel]

specific piece is 200k

[normal quail]

@bronze kelp Oooh, yea now I understand. I feel stupid now 😐

[woven summit]

200K lol

[dusky tinsel]

not worth

[bronze kelp]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=292428/everything-about-titan-residuum-in-season-3-rise-of-azshara

[woven summit]

Yeah I'll gamble and hope for something decent

hope god's with me

[bronze kelp]

@normal quail thats why we answer questions here, so everyone can extend his knowledge about this spec 😃

[woven summit]

Yeah who said rogues have no honor

This is a strong brotherhood here

no joke

[normal quail]

Should have figured it out myself tho, quite obvious now that I think about it haha

[bronze kelp]

and mods keep it troll free to 98% 😉

[solid nova]

Im pretty sure if you farmed pearls, you can have 445 piece tomorrow on reset.

[normal quail]

what pearls?

[solid nova]

Nazjatar

[upbeat geode]

Honor among thiefs Storms ❤

[bronze kelp]

nazjatar pearls

[sinful badger]

Benthic can’t upgrade to 445

[bronze kelp]

upgrade to 430 already is 350 pearls :/

[solid nova]

430

DE it

TR from cache

[normal quail]

I have barely played BFA until 8.2, thats why I got some questions

[solid nova]

• saved up from S2

= mythic piece on day 1

[sinful badger]

Bis benthic is still only bracers boots belt right?

[bronze kelp]

tomorrow the first boss mythic farm starts 😃

[solid nova]

Gloves have a case

[bronze kelp]

dagger farm party 😃

[solid nova]

But theres 5(?) pairs, so chances of rolling are lower than others

and the healing component is squiffy

[normal quail]

I think I have the best ST shoulders tho. Fathomstalkers Shoulderpads

[bronze kelp]

they got SoB on them... thats not a top trait :/

[dusky tinsel]

Gorak Tul's are bis for ST

[dark crag]

Gorak or go home

[normal quail]

oh, according to bloodmallet mine should have 250more dps ST than gorak

[dark crag]

Tides is a trap

[sturdy dust]

How does the engineering helm sim?

[dark crag]

You never drop under 50% hp in sims but doing that disables it for 45 secs

[normal quail]

But thats only defensive isnt it

ooooh nvm haha

thought the shield was the Tides

[pliant wing]

So the only good generic is blighborn ?

[sturdy dust]

waht about the tier 2 engineering traits?

the helm has Double Dose and Overwhelming Power in T1 and T3

[normal quail]

what does it have in T2?

[bronze kelp]

engi traits

[dark crag]

Agi/haste proc

[sturdy dust]

Which seems decent, just depends on PPM

[dark crag]

Its ok until you get zaqul helmet

[light sphinx]

!essence

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Essences overview: https://bit.ly/2XaZOVd

[merry orbit]

Does anyone know why on hero damage dungeon tab disapear?

[night vale]

probably cause it wasnt a good reflection of a 'real world' dungeon scenario, and could have potentially been misleading

thats a guess though

[bleak spoke]

Probably cuz they haven’t run the sims yet :^)

[night vale]

^ thats probably more likely xD

[vast tulip]

hi are Shrouded Suffocation and Subterfuge better now ?

[solid nova]

For M+ yes, for raids, most likely not

[dark crag]

Looks like the default build on hd uses supterfuge now

[wet ruin]

if you look at the combinations tab and click on default you would see talents + traits

[distant mist]

Doesn’t the damage still happen even when tides is on cd. I’m pretty sure the cd is shield only

[bleak spoke]

Yeah I was wondering why subterfuge was default atm

[distant mist]

Could be wrong

[bleak spoke]

It does not

It stops damaging for the 45 seconds

[fervent jasper]

Hey guys, I just joined the discord so sorry if I'm butting in on anything. I've played my rogue in M+ a lot and broke 2.9k last season- but I recently joined a CE guild and am going to start raiding soon. I was wondering what talent you all think is the go to option for the 2nd row for each boss in the new raid. I know Master Assassin is the "single target" talent, but do you recommend subterfuge with Shrouded Suffocation for a fight like The Queens Court, since there are 2 bosses? Or how about Zaq and his adds? Thanks!

[slim socket]

Assa should prioritize ST dmg on bosses usually so on zaqul u should play normal ST build and tbh master assasin/subterfurge are really close unless u play with blood of the enemy

[fervent jasper]

My intuition is to play BOTE when playing Master Assassin because it's such a feelsbad when you dont get a crit during your master assassin window

I'm more likely to choose my essence based on my talent rather than the reverse. Or should I not?

[normal quail]

for M+, 3xEB, 3xNP, right?

[bronze kelp]

no

for m+ any comination of eb ttk and ss

[normal quail]

just looking up what instances i should run to farm BiS for me

[bronze kelp]

best choice for start is to aim for a 2/2/2 setup

[slim socket]

I mean u should play master assasin on ST no matter what essence u have but if u dont like it subterfurge is almost the same when it comes to dps unless u have BOTE rank 3 then difference between these two talents gonna be higher

[glass relic]

should we go out of our way to dot both boss on the queen's court fight?

[winter moss]

dot when step is up

[bleak spoke]

@fervent jasper the value of the crit buff when you have SS in 2 or 3t is pretty large

[fervent jasper]

@slim socket , 2 questions: my current raid setup is 3 NP, 2 DD, and 1 TTK. If I played subterfuge, wouldn't that necessitate replacing one of those traits with SS, which might be a single target loss? And second, what about a fight like Queens Court or, to a lesser extent, Zaqz that aren't necessarily "single target?

[glass relic]

ok thanks

[bleak spoke]

You’d want to play ss with subterfuge imo, there’s no reason to use ss without it really

[fervent jasper]

@bleak spoke I dont deny that, however for the moment I've ruled out playing SS without subterfuge

[slim socket]

your setup is good for ST shouldnt change it

[bleak spoke]

Though on jaina for prog seli played subterfuge because it meant he could multidot her and the wall

Iirc

Ended up being a slight gain I think

But he killed her when not using MA didn’t mean you couldn’t get two vendettas on p1

Might stay true for some fights

This tier

[slim socket]

i mean subterfurge sims about 100dps lower than MA without any SS trait but MA is clearly better

[winter moss]

yeah but seli multi dotting jaina and wall was to some extend a bold fucking move anyway and shouldnt be required in a normal raid enviorment like we are playing round here

[rigid mango]

clearly

[bleak spoke]

I mean it’s not clear

[rigid mango]

I mean sub and ss has a potentially higher value

If you can use beneficially once

[slim socket]

still there are people who dont like some kind of gameplay and changing MA for sub is minimal

[bleak spoke]

That’s why they sim close

[rigid mango]

Like, they might be close

[bleak spoke]

The flow of ma and subterfuge are quite different

[rigid mango]

but sub + ss can be easily be better if the fight just lets you

[slim socket]

ofc it can

[bleak spoke]

But on progress not having to worry about realigning your cds can be beneficial

[fervent jasper]

I guess what I'm really trying to find out is whether or not having a boss fight with 2 bosses or with very high priority adds reduces the assassination rogue's emphasis on single target enough so that a ST loss becomes worth it for the quick multi dot capabilities of subterfuge

[rigid mango]

Also just, not sacrifcing DD + NP shit for boss damage

which honestly, on prog matters way more

than possible SS dmg on the meters

most of the time

[winter moss]

Padding > actually killing the boss

zine smh my head

[rigid mango]

[bleak spoke]

Ss isn’t padding if the gain is on even cleave

[fervent jasper]

Is it padding if its supposed to die?

[winter moss]

maybe padding was the wrong word

sacrificing given ST dmg for a marginal gain on the dps meters during prog

[rigid mango]

I've been using SS on azshara

but honestly, not sure if that's even a gain

[winter moss]

well on 2 of 4 possible casts it would be a gain

[crystal vault]

go 25% crit, MA and blood for sick vendetta/vanish burst ♿

[fervent jasper]

Do you recommend playing pure ST, Master Assassin, etc etc on 8/8 bosses in this raid at least most of the time?

[normal quail]

Anyone that knows someone with the correct M+ Azerite traits? According to wowhead I should apparently go 3xEB/3xSS but idk

[cobalt pelican]

ma is playable on every single boss

[rigid mango]

Yeah

[blissful saddle]

Be the reason ur guild makes that bread

[winter moss]

2xEB 2xTTK 2xSS is a solid overall setup

[fervent jasper]

@normal quail , 3x TTK, and either 2x SS and 1x EB or 1x SS and 2x EB

[winter moss]

low haste, high crit and mastery

[fervent jasper]

Or 2/2/2 works just fine too

[rigid mango]

I'd say you hard need one SS and EB

I wouldn't go past 2 EB this season

3 ttk is very potent for funneling

[bronze kelp]

@normal quail i told you 2 times already what you should aim for ...

[winter moss]

fahwi they always return

[rigid mango]

[bleak spoke]

3ttk is only good if you have a very strong understanding of how to play it and want to use it to time high keys

[bronze kelp]

2 EB /2 TTK /2 SS and you are in a fine spot for every dungeon and affix combo @normal quail

[bleak spoke]

It’s really hard to play

[rigid mango]

^

2/2/2 always works

[bleak spoke]

But there are many keys where playing it is certainly a gain in time

[fervent jasper]

@mac how many Overwhelming power traits do you play with that low haste build? I've been playing outlaw all through season 2 but am putting my sin m+ set together now. I see seliathan running something like 6% haste but with 2 overwhelming power traits. Not sure if a build that low haste would be playable w/o those 2 Overwhelmings

[rigid mango]

I think going 2/2/2 until you feel comfy and can branch out to more specified set ups

[winter moss]

as many as possible

[bleak spoke]

Motherlode, waycrest if you run sin in waycrest for some godforsaken reason

[winter moss]

and is playable without 2 Op traits

just cancer

and due to essencens giving a fuckton of haste or lucid dreams its whatever

[fervent jasper]

True I forgot about lucid

[bleak spoke]

I would argue lucid makes any haste number playable

[bronze kelp]

lucid is just awesome in m+

[winter moss]

in dungeons you need lucid for bosses on such low haste

[bleak spoke]

You get any lucid proc and the rotations just as smooth as if you had very high haste

You play lucid minor no matter what anyway in dungeons imo

[strange python]

Are you guys using the iris in m+ or lucid as main?

[bleak spoke]

Regardless of haste

[winter moss]

i agree with lettuce

[fervent jasper]

Atm it seems like the iris is too OP to pass up

[normal quail]

@bronze kelp I know you did, thats why Im asking, wowhead tells me what I should farm, but you told me different so im going for 2/2/2. Just asking if you guys know what the BiS for that is

[bleak spoke]

The healing from it and the verse buff is actually just incredible

You take so much pressure off your healer

[winter moss]

iris got nerfed

[bronze kelp]

@normal quail https://azerite.info/class/rogue select the trait and on the right site you see where it drops

[winter moss]

15% less dmg in PVE

which takes away a bit the op-ness

[fervent jasper]

Yeah I heard. I feel like the major should have been something like a 40% nerf though

[severe bough]

Yes, about that

[rigid mango]

Still think it's go to

[bleak spoke]

In a way that’s a rogue’s job in a key, to solve problems and relieve pressure, just an added bonus that we also have the highest thoroughput lul

[solid nova]

It still definitely is

[strange python]

15% is very little though, surely it's still worth to take for our shit aoe

[normal quail]

didnt know about that page so was looking at piece by piece and got tired of it.

[winter moss]

for sin ye

[severe bough]

Would i be able to experimrnt with bote?

[rigid mango]

Sure

[severe bough]

Or no

[bleak spoke]

Yeah 15% is way too little imo

[rigid mango]

But I think iris is still better

[severe bough]

[fervent jasper]

Currently every dps that plays iris has it as their 2nd-4th damaging ability

[winter moss]

lets us have or fun lettuce >:

[severe bough]

I think bote can win out in mega pulls with eb

[fervent jasper]

So now itll get knocked down to 3rd-5th

[severe bough]

Sad times

[bleak spoke]

Or highest if you’re a bad aoe class like a boomie

[fervent jasper]

Big deal

[bleak spoke]

For outlaw it’s literally blade flurry then iris that’s insane lmao

[winter moss]

https://clips.twitch.tv/ThirstyCovertTubersChefFrank why iris is op

[bleak spoke]

Right now in keys as assa it’s like SS Envenom Iris in that order for me

[fervent jasper]

@bleak spoke yes I'm playing outlaw in keys now and that's how it is for me

[bleak spoke]

And this is on a bolstering week lol

[fervent jasper]

I see seliathan is still running major lucid though

[bleak spoke]

Where ½ the time if you push iris you’re hard griefing

That’s cuz seli understands what he’s in a dungeon to do but unlike most of us he actually does it

Lul

[winter moss]

[bleak spoke]

I played lucid major in kr I think

It was really strong vs void emissaries

[winter moss]

lucid major is the best choice imo

[bleak spoke]

When you didn’t have vendetta up

[winter moss]

as sin

[bleak spoke]

Cuz you didn’t need to multidot to setup a non starved TB

[winter moss]

i mean you can use it on aoe aswell, but it's not reaping anymore there is no use of casting ten fok back to back

[bleak spoke]

I mean starting next week we’ll probably pull as big as we can handle again

[fervent jasper]

@bleak spoke iris was a godsend in the KR I did earlier. "Can we pull all of these blobs at once and kill them evenly enough to not bolster? Hmmm...does everyone have their beams?" Good lets do it"

[bleak spoke]

Bolstering affects it more than reaping

[fervent jasper]

Everything melted

[bleak spoke]

Yeah but tbf kr is actually pretty even cleave

[winter moss]

everything affects it ofc

[bleak spoke]

Most dungeons aren’t

[winter moss]

but even with b2b foks you can even out the dmg

[bleak spoke]

Like iris will be bis probably in places like UR and shrine

But like imagine playing iris in siege or something

[fervent jasper]

@mac you think major lucid is a greater dps gain than major iris?

[bleak spoke]

File that under actual trolling

[winter moss]

depends

[bleak spoke]

Not a dps gain but a time gain

[winter moss]

wanna pad? or wanna fulfill the role you were given?

[bleak spoke]

That’s an important distinction

[fervent jasper]

Pad please

[winter moss]

then no

[bleak spoke]

I mean if you want to pad then play 3ss3eb iris and purification minor tbh

[winter moss]

what rtb said, time gain

^

[bleak spoke]

That’s probably the setup with the highest raw throughput

[lucid agate]

Hey guys, two questions:

1. I normally apply Garrote from stealth, go through vendetta opener, and use vanish after first garrote expires, to apply a fresh buffed one (with sub talent).
   In this case, do i then hold vendetta to align with second vanish so garrote is buffed by sub talent and vendetta, or keep using both on cd?

2. And what about MA? When do i use vanish the first time? During vendetta, right after first MA falls off?

[civic stag]

how should I use ashvane's razor coral with azshara's font of power?

[sturdy dust]

What are the affixes this week?

[bleak spoke]

1. Yes hold v for van

[winter moss]

@lucid agate did you read the guide

[bleak spoke]

2. Check the pins

I’m not judging btw I love padding

[winter moss]

its not in there any more rtb

[normal quail]

anyone know a name of someone with a 2/2/2 assas build for M+?

[bleak spoke]

But like i think in very tight keys the difference made with good prio is understated

[fervent jasper]

@winter moss serious question, what role does the rogue have that they can fulfill with major lucid but not major iris?

[winter moss]

Prio dmg

[fervent jasper]

Touche

[winter moss]

e.g:void emmisary

[bleak spoke]

Nah that’s actually wrong in that example

You’re more likely to do better with iris in void emissary with iris

Cuz you have another cd

[winter moss]

vendetta down

or the anti kick aura emissary

or guards in atal

[bleak spoke]

The anti kick one for sure

[winter moss]

on non bolstering

[bleak spoke]

It’s hard to say cuz like

For the void ones if you have 3 iris blasting it it’s pretty good until the very high keys

[fervent jasper]

But do I want to spec to my essence around the concept of better killing one add?

[winter moss]

i mean you could say it's a budget sub playstyle with EB

[bleak spoke]

I mean very likely next season will be about passing void checks

[fervent jasper]

This season?

[bleak spoke]

Man like

I’m in denial

Stop

[fervent jasper]

Hahaha

That's a good point though. Can you kill the void before it gets that next cast off that'll wipe the group

More important than any major burst momentb

[bleak spoke]

Walking into what would have been a low key last season and depleting it this season is the most triggering shit

I mean yeah kinda

That’s like the outlaw vs subtlety argument in a nutshell though

[strange python]

Poen's Deepsea Grips are BiS for Benthic gloves?

[lime path]

reckon the iris nerf today will make purification more relevant?

for m+ anyway

[bleak spoke]

At what point does raw throughput outweigh surgical prio damage

[fervent jasper]

Sub only does OP prio damage when it has non prio tatgets around it though

[bleak spoke]

And the problem with sin is that it does both

So the right way to play it is always in question

[solid nova]

@lime path More relevant sure, any nerf would do that, but better? I doubt. Even with 15% I can't see it not still being top tier.

[fervent jasper]

15% is a joke

[bleak spoke]

Maybe purification in waycrest

[vestal wren]

15% is fine

[lime path]

well obviously purifcation would only be used if rank 3

[solid nova]

15% on a bazilion aoe

Is fine

[bleak spoke]

If the instakill component is large

[lime path]

and even then at high keys only

[bleak spoke]

If you can zap a gorger

[vestal wren]

it will fall behind/equal to other rank 2 essences, and still has the niche of aoe

[bleak spoke]

Man oh man

[strange python]

is it worth it to sim azerite traits in dungeon slice or should i just go for the "decided" optimum ones?

[lime path]

I mean if you're doing a 15+, the aoe dmg on purification gets buffed on r3, and iris goes down 15%, is that gap acceptable to play the 2% one shot lottery>

[vestal wren]

also dont forget it only scales to rank 2

[fervent jasper]

Currently top dps for the pull is Whoever happens to have their beam off CD

[tacit plinth]

Pretty sure either way to play it is fine

[fervent jasper]

Its dumb

[tacit plinth]

Lucid with ST traits or EB with BotE

[bleak spoke]

The higher the key is the better the oneshot lottery is to play

[lime path]

should you synchronize azerite beams then, or stagger them between packs?

[vestal wren]

just play dh, so you always have the memebeam

[bleak spoke]

But then you wouldn’t be a rogue so you would be bad in keys

[severe bough]

So whata the play on a ... 15 for instance

[vestal wren]

i dont think dh is bad in keys

[bleak spoke]

I wouldn’t go for the oneshot in a 15

[severe bough]

2 ss 2 eb 2 ttk?

[vestal wren]

3ss 3 eb

[fervent jasper]

Highest I've managed to time this week is a 14. I've been getting murdered in anything higher

[severe bough]

And what, either iris or lucid major?

[bleak spoke]

Yeah play 3ss3eb in 15s tbh

[severe bough]

[fervent jasper]

So whatever I'm doing

Isnt working

[bleak spoke]

I had wf 16 for like 4 days

But it was a freehold haha

[fathom wyvern]

are sims not accurate? ive been seeing alot of top rogues running blood of the enemy as major and lucid as minor...

[fervent jasper]

I did a 15 FH and actually had to LoS eudora

On a 15

[severe bough]

I might try to push higher but it would depend if guildies or friends wanna push with me

[bleak spoke]

Nah you don’t

[severe bough]

Because fuck pugging that

[bleak spoke]

Not if your tank safeguards you

[fervent jasper]

Tank wasnt a warrior

[bleak spoke]

Unlucky

[severe bough]

Hard throw move

[bleak spoke]

Glaring comp deficit

[normal quail]

I have a list of what I should farm for 3/3 for M+, but not the 2/2/2 build 🙄

[lime path]

how many weeks is gonna be before 200k residuum

[fervent jasper]

@normal quail , then dont do the 2/2/2 build

[lime path]

cuz I don't wanna take my chances on random pieces

I have terrible rng

[fervent jasper]

Get 3 TTK and some combination of EB and SS

[bleak spoke]

I mean you can make 222 happen in a lot of ways

[solid nova]

@lime path A +10 gives you 17k a week.

[desert pelican]

If im didnt have cis trinket, is it worth for s3m+ and mythic prog to try and ckear heroic cis with some pugs , or h/m raid trinkets and 430 m+ will be better? Like 30+ ilvls more

[fervent jasper]

Jack of all trades master of none

[desert pelican]

Cos trinket*

[wild stone]

Wasn't the #1 sin using 3 ttk

[fervent jasper]

Seliathan

Yeah hes a beast

[bleak spoke]

Yeah he does

[lime path]

jesus that's still like 10+ weeks

what the frack

[bleak spoke]

I mean I fully expect 22s and 21s to be completable in reasonable time frames if not timed in 3 weeks or so

[fervent jasper]

A very good rogue friend of mine told me "dont spend too much time theoryctafting, just do whatever seliathan does and spend the rest of your time trying to make it work for you"

[solid nova]

Id rather roll 3 pieces of random than 1 specific

[lime path]

and I'm a week behind on dust cuz blizzard screwed me out of chest

[winter moss]

sorry phone call, didnt read everything tl;dr rtb?

[solid nova]

@fervent jasper I know that guy too

@rigid mango

[bleak spoke]

Hard to make what seli does works though

[solid nova]

Tell them about the agility potions

[winter moss]

^

just do what seli does

if it would be so easy

[fervent jasper]

Well he means in terms if gears stats and traits n stufd

Stuff*

[winter moss]

still

[bleak spoke]

Like try playing first boss of temple in a high key like how seli does

[winter moss]

there is a reason behind the things seli does

[solid nova]

Theres a group coordination/synergy behind some of the reasonings

[bleak spoke]

And you’ll kill your self in your next 50 temple keys

[solid nova]

That wont benefit you in a pug

[desert pelican]

Another assa did more pad overall than seli now, so

[lime path]

what were the multi target breakpoints again? at how many targets do you stop rupturing and do you ever stop garroting?

[winter moss]

5 and yes

[bleak spoke]

You stop garroting beyond your first three garrotes tbh

Though I keep a garrote on prio targets

Like if I ever find myself thinking I should toxic blade something I’ll garrote it too

[marble hemlock]

monkaS

[woven summit]

Well, he has a point

[lime path]

would you ever use TB when thre's multiple targets? or do you ignore it in favor of FoK spam?

[bleak spoke]

If something needs to die you Tb it

[woven summit]

What works for you work for all of us

[rigid mango]

@solid nova

[polar cape]

1 mind 1 spec behind seli

[rigid mango]

[solid nova]

[bleak spoke]

Lmao

[rigid mango]

[stuck knoll]

[urban junco]

[winter moss]

[woven summit]

True

[marble hemlock]

funny, seeing how i was playing exsang+ct with ttk at the start of season2, and then someone in my chat suggested playing tb+pb. tried it, since then ive never switched back

[rigid mango]

dw everything I say is a joke

turns out I just jebaited everyone who came for some advice

[marble hemlock]

i just started playing ttk, whoever that guy in chat was is the real hero

[rigid mango]

[bleak spoke]

Man I was there when that happened

[solid nova]

Seli, please provide your input

[rigid mango]

Chat guy

[solid nova]

On TTK Vs NP

[winter moss]

seli just takes information and converts it into a fuckton of damages

[rigid mango]

You're the dude

[marble hemlock]

for?

[solid nova]

M+

Prio damage

[marble hemlock]

id run ttk for sure

[solid nova]

Thank you.

[rigid mango]

inc flame on me

[fervent jasper]

Settled

[marble hemlock]

np for prio on aoe is kinda like

[winter moss]

pin it richard

[marble hemlock]

just a bit of damage, and the energy portion is useless since youre capping already

[bleak spoke]

Prio every 25s vs every 2 minutes as well

[rigid mango]

Have they fixed the prio sims yet?

to actually not be giga scuffed?

[winter moss]

ttk does work outside of tb too

[stuck knoll]

Did you see that deflect

Actually pro

[marble hemlock]

NP might be more prio than 1ttk trait on that one specific target, ttk is just better for every pull or target that you dont vendetta

[rigid mango]

wat

[lime path]

are bloodmallets trinket sims accurate enough to be a good ballpark indicator before doing personal sims or nah?

[marble hemlock]

so the minor gain via np is offset by ttk being beneficial in every pull

[vestal wren]

i would not call prio sim giga scuffed

[rigid mango]

It was

for sure.

[bleak spoke]

Would it even be better if you can fill every other global with a 5 point env for the duration of that vendetta

[fervent jasper]

@marble hemlock , would you run a build as low haste as you are if you had only 1 overwhelming power trait?

[marble hemlock]

ye

[rigid mango]

If you want to say using 3 ttk and not envenoming for 13 SECONDS

[vestal wren]

your perception of how it plays is diffrent, does not mean its scffed

[woven summit]

Who's better pound 4 pound, Infexious or Seliathan?

[rigid mango]

isn't scuffed

idk what fuu

[marble hemlock]

lucid is giga

[rigid mango]

Stats don't lie

[marble hemlock]

makes up for most of the haste-loss

[fervent jasper]

Thank you!

[bleak spoke]

What is the actual haste value of lucid minor roughly

[lime path]

would you still run lucid dream on zaqul even with the 80% haste buff nearly energy drowning you?

or nah

[winter moss]

you actually gotta be green until people believe you jfc

[marble hemlock]

who sends down rogues to delirium tho? 😄

[rigid mango]

We did

[lime path]

they don't send you, you just selfishly go

XD

[marble hemlock]

hahaha

well yeah, then lucid might not be the best pick 😃

[lime path]

like shadowstep sprint at the last second

snatch dat shit away from the spriest

[marble hemlock]

well, i was down there once

with a firemage

didnt end well for me

[bleak spoke]

Sounds like my arena matches

[marble hemlock]

when he combusted boss, i think i took like 50k/sec from the ignite spread

[lime path]

although I think best classes to send down are spriest? right?

[dusky tinsel]

I lived forever in delirium, long enough for the 2nd round of people to come down and stay their whole duration too, cloak timing is huge there

[lime path]

cuz giant voidform durations

[buoyant kraken]

@marble hemlock i have noticed you have stacked twist the knife and not shrouded in m+? how come?

[marble hemlock]

hmye, you want smth that has some selfheal to counter madness dmg/time and scales well with haste

so sp, hunter, firemage for us

then wl+boomy into fear for multidot

and melee stay upstairs

[lime path]

doesnt lucid dream and crimson vial give you all the healing you need?

with an 80% haste buff

[bleak spoke]

A fair concession to banan for making him playing sliver as a hunter :^)

[rigid mango]

What did u use for traits on azshara seli?

[lime path]

to constantly spam abilities

[marble hemlock]

sure, but again, you definitely want firemage down there

and they spread ignite, which will kill you

[slim socket]

isnt leech poison enough?

[frank sentinel]

not a chance

[bleak spoke]

You probably send boomies down too

[rigid mango]

Leech poison

[vestal wren]

@rigid mango no, we dont plan to fix scuffed prio damage sims.
Our aim is to protect ttk from beeing nerfed if blizz would see how op it is

[rigid mango]

Ah

[slim socket]

guys wanted me to go delirium and take leech and i was like

[bleak spoke]

Lmao if you think leeching poison will save you from ignite dot

[marble hemlock]

lol @vestal wren

[rigid mango]

giga iq

[marble hemlock]

i think we all thought you guys did that in s1

[fervent jasper]

@marble hemlock does lucid make up the haste even on pure ST or would you stack more haste there?

[rigid mango]

He's watching out for all of us

[marble hemlock]

when shrouded was so broken, but the aoe sim only opened with g-g-r instead of g-g-g 😄

[frank sentinel]

leeching poison also doesn't save you from the jokester boomkin down there with you that tab targets starsurges into you

[bleak spoke]

Loool

[rigid mango]

@marble hemlock what did u run for azshara

[dusky tinsel]

@marble hemlock what essences are you running this week for tyrannical?

[zenith gust]

is the iris nerf already implemented in the sims?

[marble hemlock]

same as always, 3dd 3op, np/bbi/ttk

[bleak spoke]

Is it even tyran this week

[severe bough]

[tacit plinth]

seli comes out of the shadow and just gets 5 million pings

[woven summit]

TTK OP? I got 0 TTK traits :( Can I replace 1x SS for 1x TTK? That way I will have 3X EB 1x TTK and 1x SS

[dusky tinsel]

essences not traits

[vestal wren]

i mean: blizz didnt nerf tornado yet 😏

[solid nova]

@woven summit As said earlier

Yes

[woven summit]

Damn nice

[marble hemlock]

as for all the rest, ttk is just nice when you generate a lot of cp and can dump it into one target, and ttk provides the highest damage increase for that situation

[severe bough]

How high of a key for pure st traits

[bleak spoke]

@vestal wren is it time for zul part 2: zaqul?

[severe bough]

15?

[vestal wren]

hard to say tbh

[solar fable]

Theres an iris nerf?

[dusky tinsel]

yeah, 15%

[solid nova]

15%

[lime path]

so assuming I wanted to be lazy and always have 3EB, 1 SS, 1TTK, and the last one either another TTK or another SS, which azerite pieces provide that combination?

[bleak spoke]

Won’t be much of a difference

[vestal wren]

one thing you need to keep in mind is that the perception plays a role in what will see play in wf race

[dusky tinsel]

@lime path ttk

[vestal wren]

and subtlety is not seen as very good

[bleak spoke]

I kinda hope they don’t stack sub for it

[vestal wren]

so even if there is a fight subtlety would be great at(even better then others) it might not get played

[marble hemlock]

sub needs to be more than "slightly better" than other specs to be brought in for stacking purposes

[bleak spoke]

Yeah that’s also true

[marble hemlock]

i.e. fights like mistress, zul, desolate host

[solid nova]

Sub this d- #subtlety #wow-general WF race shit

[vestal wren]

^

[dusky tinsel]

like giving back shuriken combo

[marble hemlock]

i think for prio in general, if you have a huge supply of mobs, assa might be better anyway

sicne you also deal decent damage to the mobs

[vestal wren]

just play iris 😛

[marble hemlock]

i.e. zaqul might be played around keeping adds up and only killing them once they start dipping into low-stack territory

[bleak spoke]

Yeah if adds actually have to die then assa is better

[vestal wren]

tornado only needs adds when the cooldown is up

so...

[dusky tinsel]

was thinking iris major and lucid minor but not sure if that's worth for tyrannical or not. Might go 3xEB, 2ttk and 1ss on tyrannical with lucid major to make up for the ST dps

[quartz rune]

Its not tyrannical next is though

Id

[bleak spoke]

I think it’s b2b fort weeks yeah

[fresh ginkgo]

O.o

[solid nova]

FORTIFIED, SANGUINE, NECROTIC, BEGUILING

[dusky tinsel]

wait what

[fresh ginkgo]

Really?

[vestal wren]

iris is still potent on st

tho

[solid nova]

No im lying?

[rigid mango]

Richard stop lying

[woven summit]

what affix is your favorite? infested, reaping or beguling?

[rigid mango]

talked about this

[dusky tinsel]

didn't expect back to back fort

[bleak spoke]

Man imagine enjoying infested or beguiling

[woven summit]

yeah you got to be a masochist

[marble hemlock]

idk, the seasonal affixes all suck in their own right

[fervent jasper]

Is it just permanently fortified now?

[dusky tinsel]

at least reaping was fun

[woven summit]

reaping was kind of fun

[dusky tinsel]

big pad

[woven summit]

brainless aoe

[solid nova]

2 weeks

Permanent

[tiny arrow]

Beguiling might be really fun once we get a better grasp on it

[woven summit]

yeah people still struggling with it

[bleak spoke]

Man I swear we argue about this every 3 days reaping wasn’t brainless

[woven summit]

one warrior on my adventures told me that the punchcard from revered mechagon can be very useful. If all 5 players have the trinket and activate it on the emisarry it will die with one shot from all 5

[dusky tinsel]

requires far less thought than the other 2 seasonal affixes though

[woven summit]

how relevant is this warrior's study?

[bleak spoke]

Cyclotronic?

[fervent jasper]

Reaping was cool because you could decide what mobs you wanted to get reaping from, you could pull it into shitz actually do something with the affix

[rigid mango]

ReApInG iS jUsT aOe

[opal viper]

the emisarry has about 2.9m hp on a 16 key

[woven summit]

yeah and dodging shit

[vestal wren]

next week is tyranical iirc

[bleak spoke]

5 cyclotronic probably the play for emissaries yeah

[woven summit]

then the righteous warrior was right

I'll try to combine the trinket then

with that punchcard

[scenic nacelle]

That’s just going to get cyclo nerfed for a dumb reason 😦

[woven summit]

and 2 more

[solid nova]

5 cyclos isnt 2.9m damage

[bleak spoke]

But it’s 1.1m damage in 2.2 seconds

Which is pretty good

[fervent jasper]

Beguiling is just blizzards way of trying to rectify the fact that they couldnt design good dungeons so to get people to run it the way they want them to they use the affix to put a true sight mob by any pack they want you not to skip

[woven summit]

what blue and yellow punchcard go with the cyclotronic?

[dusky tinsel]

pretty much @fervent jasper

[solar fable]

I miss legion dungeons

[dusky tinsel]

same

[marble hemlock]

beguiling is blizzards way of making everyone who wants to push highkeys consider swapping to alliance for shadowmeld

[dusky tinsel]

that too

[scenic nacelle]

Buck Flizzard

[vestal wren]

shadowmeld still exploitable?

[solar fable]

These open world choose your own path dungeons are so bad because theres always a way to cheese them, so blizzard has to do dumb stuff to fix it

[bleak spoke]

Man what

These dungeons all are so linear

[marble hemlock]

shadowmeld would allow you to just skip void/tide emissaries entirely by LoSing the void or just chain-ccing the tide and then run past it, meld, and move on

instead of being forced to deal with them

[scenic nacelle]

I think he’s talking about Mecha

[sturdy dust]

Will Purification Protocol Rank 3 end up being the best M+ Major?

[marble hemlock]

doubtful

[tacit plinth]

🚮

[bleak spoke]

Probably not

[marble hemlock]

iris will still beat it on aoe

[tacit plinth]

PP is trash

[obtuse surge]

HeyGuys i don't really know if its the correct channel to ask question but i'm new as asassination rogue and i read there is different build for mythic + and raiding and i was wondering if i can perform decently with running with only one build and which one would be better in stats priority ? thanks

[woven summit]

i like lucid + iris

[marble hemlock]

and i think assa this season will not be brought for its aoe, but its prio/st

[woven summit]

for raiding

yeah and still decent aoe

like it's alright

[bleak spoke]

I mean tbh that was why it was brought last season in high keys seli

[woven summit]

Seliathan will you play Classic?

[fervent jasper]

@marble hemlock do you think outlaw will still top sin in representation in keys?

[bleak spoke]

Every time I played sin I justified it by saying “this is a TIME SAVE”

[vestal carbon]

When r the servers back up?

In 2hrs?

[bleak spoke]

Reset I think

[dusky tinsel]

less than an hour Jimlar

[marble hemlock]

@fervent jasper probably not

because there was a line in the patchnotes about wits, which the majority of people seem to think is a major nerf to outlaw, so they now think outlaw is bad

even though it really didnt change at all

[bleak spoke]

Idk in high keys life after on demand vanish sounds like the apocalypse

[marble hemlock]

outlaw is still going to be very strong, no question about it. but more and more people seem to consider assa as a valid option now, which is nice even though its for the wrong reason

[bleak spoke]

Yeah I guess

[vestal wren]

the seasonal affix was the reason ppl choose outlaw

so i think its reasonable to look back at sub/sin if the affix changes

[royal lantern]

outlaw got a small nerf that doesnt change MUCH stuff..... but nerf=dead for most people 🤷

if you can even call it a nerf

[bleak spoke]

Idk man I think that’s the reason people chose outlaw then they realized all the things it did compared to sin and sub

[dusky tinsel]

change in the trait, not a nerf, but yeah, like Seli said, perception is everything

[fervent jasper]

I barely even notice the nerf when playing outlaw. I feel it more as a buff in the 2 and 3 target situations than as a nerf in big AoE

[bleak spoke]

When you can assign 1 person to stop a mob that requires 2 of any other class it’s crazy

[woven summit]

So with Outlaw you only get one buff now instead of more? Seems like Blizz tried to simplify stuff instead of nerf.

[upbeat geode]

people also saw groups pull 10+ mobs on MDI and saw the dps outlaw did. then they themselfs pulled 3 mobs at a time and were suprised outlaw didnt do 100K

[bleak spoke]

I played a motherlode as sin earlier this week and I was perplexed as to how to stop a hail of flechettes from going out

[dusky tinsel]

Beguiling requires good prio damage, which assassination excels at, and its AoE was always competitive with Outlaw, so its not unreasonable that it becomes the go-to spec

[royal lantern]

by using kidney

[rigid mango]

If you need prio dmg why not take sub?

[royal lantern]

or blind if needed lol

[lament dove]

dunno, you stun the mob and it stops flechette...?

[marble hemlock]

outlaw has very good prio-damage as well tho :>

[fervent jasper]

Its AoE isnt that competitive with outlaw unless you sacrifice a good bit of that single target

[marble hemlock]

people seem to be forgetting that wits gives outlaw incredibly strong prio

[bleak spoke]

Was stun dr @royal lantern

And blind cd

[royal lantern]

well

supiror pandaren race, and my 4sec incap

never had a problem with that 🤷

[bleak spoke]

I engi belted it

[fervent jasper]

@bleak spoke true, in keys I miss gouge when playing sin

Lol I use my engi belt as an emergency interupt too

[fresh ginkgo]

Panda rogue

[fleet anchor]

@rigid mango I mean if you want to prove out a better approach for the APL and test it, then you can say it's "scuffed" but the current priority_rotation adjustments were based on a lot of testing various options and what actually resulted in higher priority damage in those tests. So if you have some feelycraft, that's totally fine. But you'll need to prove it out to say it's the right way before it gets put in an APL. 😛

[crystal vault]

Which benthic gear should i aim for after boots, phys waist or frost bracers?

[strange python]

what affixes is it on NA?

[royal lantern]

the 4sec incap is usefull man

[strange python]

it says fortified again so was wondering if it was a bug

[bleak spoke]

Sang necro

[strange python]

fort?

[royal lantern]

and it fk's with locks/mages in pvp too

[bleak spoke]

Yeh

[strange python]

k

[fresh ginkgo]

@royal lantern yep I'm a panda rogue too 👌

[bleak spoke]

Which is good cuz I am not prepared for tyrannical scaling in this gear lmao

[royal lantern]

[rigid mango]

I mean if you think stacking 3 traits to pump envenom damage and then have windows where it doesn't use it for 13 seconds not scuffed idk @fleet anchor

I'm talking about the absolute first iteration of the prio sim

[fleet anchor]

13 seconds is not very long

There are good reasons to maintain Rupture to ensure maximum energy regen over the longer term

[rigid mango]

Idk, 13 sec of having 3 triats isntead of 6 sounds bad to me

[fleet anchor]

The current logic maintains a certain number of bleeds to maintain energy regen, and that was proven out as the best target number via testing

TtK's effect is easily one of the more overrated things in this Discord 😃

Even if it is good, it is not really a rotation-warping level of strength in anything I have tested

[marble hemlock]

i think thats one of the main issues or limitations at the end, playing around "number of bleeds" which needs a lot of exceptions to work similar as we do it on live where we play more around energy, and not amount of bleeds

which then leads to ruptures during TB in the sim, or long sections of not envenoming at all due to garrotes dropping etc.

[tepid ridge]

definitly yes

[fleet anchor]

I mean, if you want to make an argument about fight length time leading to different results, that's fine. But I think many of the "real time" playing around Energy people do is simply inefficient despite feeling good

[marble hemlock]

but yeah, obviously ttk isnt the end-all-or-be-all in terms of prio

[lucid bolt]

is it good to have more than 1 undulating tides ?

[fervent jasper]

@marble hemlock , do you mean you stop putting out new bleeds once you're energy neutral and just dump your CPs into envenoms?

[marble hemlock]

it just further improves our prio-capabilities that largely exist due to our increased cp gen from fok on aoe with the high-crit that we run

[fervent jasper]

Or did I totally misread that

[bleak spoke]

Rupturing during Tb seems like there was a significant mistake

[fleet anchor]

Ruptures during TB should be exceedingly rare

In the APL

[celest swan]

i saw the spreadsheet about spamming fok, is there a rule of thunb when tu jsut cast fok?

[fleet anchor]

Only if the Rupture on the main target has less than 2s remaining

[marble hemlock]

well, we generally only bleed for energy, not the damage it does @fervent jasper so once you're energy neutral, you have a decision to make

[bleak spoke]

Isn’t the major punish to rupture an energy problem

So it dropping on the main target is fine if other targets are ruptured and poisoned

[marble hemlock]

keep spamming fok for aoe (with eb traits), use the cp to generate more energy (because your bleeds might be running out soon), use the cp to envenom a specific target

[fleet anchor]

I will note that avoiding Ruptures during TB was only ever shown to be a gain during Vendetta though, despite the feels

The reality is that overall efficiency of uptimes is better for sustained DPS

Single globals are less important than they seem

Energy feeds everything and making decisions that are energy-inefficient/deficient are often not a good idea

[fervent jasper]

@marble hemlock if the bleeds are for the energy rather than the dps then why do so many sin rogues stack mastery so high? Wouldn't it be better served in something like crit?

[crisp steppe]

how long do the prio target sims last?

[fleet anchor]

And since TB is not ever worth delaying due to the short cooldown, this leads to some "non optimal" TB windows

But that's OK

[marble hemlock]

well, we have lots of ways of getting that energy though, and some come at bigger cost than others

i.e. not needing to have 5+ bleeds up if we know that we are about to pop vendetta, since that will lead to overcapping

[lime path]

Alright so based on the crossover of traits available from pieces that can be bought for residuum, I've made a quick little tier list, let me know what you think or if anything needs to be tweaked.

AoE Ranking

Helm - [1]Cowl of Fluid Machinations
Shoulders - [1]1Pistoleer's Spaulders/[2] Gold-Tasseled Epaults
Chest - [1]Raiment of the Blighted Tribe/[2]Cephalohide Jacket

ST Ranking

Helm - [1]Cowld of Fluid Machinations
Shoulders - [1]Gorak Tul's Mantle/[2] Gold-Tasseled Epaults
Chest - [1]Spymaster's Wrap/[2] Gore-Splattered Vest/[3]Vest of Reverent Adoration

Any thoughts, or other pieces I may have missed? Again this is only counting for pieces that can be bought with residuum, not world drops or raid drops. And as always sim yourself.

[celest swan]

@marble hemlock u wrote about the FOnt of Power usage we want to end wiht a finsiher before casting it. why thouhg?

[crisp steppe]

@lime path what does the list aim to achieve

[lime path]

just a rough idea of which pieces to prioritize buying

[marble hemlock]

mightve come across wrong, you want to dump energy before using it so you dont overcap while you channel

[lucid bolt]

is undulating tides the best azerite trait ?

[fleet anchor]

Sure, that's a reasonable hypothesis although at that point that should only be relevant 2+ minutes into the sim

[lime path]

again its a very rough idea, if there's any pieces I overlooked, please feel free to chime in

[marble hemlock]

yeah, its not related at all to the prio-convo koji ^^

i think ive went over some of the issues i feel the prio-apl might have with fuu, but at the end of the day i doubt any of them will have a major impact

[crisp steppe]

how long is the prio dmg sims? like m+ prio dmg is quite different from raids I can imagine

[crystal vault]

@marble hemlock would you refresh dots even if they arent in the pedemic window, just to make sure you can channel and have the "perfect" 2nd burst with CD's ?

[fleet anchor]

I mean, again I would encourage people to prove things out or experiment if possible. I tried probably 50+ different conditions when testing Rupture and TB logic when making the APL and discarded ones that did not give positive results. So that's just how it is.

[crisp steppe]

idk if the sim ends with low energy

[scenic nacelle]

Anyone else buying a Gorak Tuls 440 today?

[marble hemlock]

i.e. im not sure if this is actually an improvement, not sure if youve run it with and without

[lucid bolt]

why is undulating tides ranked so much higher than tidal surge when it deals less damage ? according to bloodmallet

[fleet anchor]

Of course new ideas are good to try

[marble hemlock]

obviously a very minor thing

[fleet anchor]

pool_resource is there to prevent skipping Garrote if you don't have enough energy to use it, but want to use it

[marble hemlock]

i mean the second part, using it as a special generator for the last cp

[fleet anchor]

Since many abilites below Garrote on the priority list have a lower cost than Garrote

[bleak spoke]

I’ve done that before in low aoe where I’ll garrote a random target before finishing if a rupture is gonna drop off soon, replacing a rupture with a garrote somewhere in the packs

[tacit plinth]

Someone mentioned not garroting after the intial stealth , is that ever the case?

[bleak spoke]

I don’t think it’s much of a gain in anything but convenience I guess

[celest swan]

@tacit plinth its in tc-updates

[fleet anchor]

I don't think that comment from Mystler really implies any special behavior

[marble hemlock]

hm alright

[fleet anchor]

Just that Garrote checks CP thresholds before applying

e.g. "combo_points.deficit>=1+3*(azerite.shrouded_suffocation.enabled&cooldown.vanish.up)"

Didn't write the comment myself so not sure

[marble hemlock]

yeah, id just imagine that it could potentially be counter-productive if it leads to bleed-threshold issues later into the fight which might bring about inopportune ruptures

[fervent jasper]

@marble hemlock , if you're energy positive and have 4 combo points when rupture falls off the target, would you use those combo points to reapply rupture or to toxic blade into an Envenom?

[fleet anchor]

Are you talking the main target?

[bleak spoke]

Man that sounds like a rotational error

[fervent jasper]

Yes

[bleak spoke]

D:

[marble hemlock]

you always want bleeds on your prio target

atleast rupture has higher dpe than envenom even with 3ttk

[bleak spoke]

Wait does it really

Man what

[fleet anchor]

Yeah. You'll lose at least 2-3 Rupture ticks and like 14-21 energy, etc. pretty large cost

[marble hemlock]

hmm actually not sure about that anymore with current scaling

it used to be

but yeah, theres definitely still improvements, situations like these shouldnt ever occur with proper bleed-management

[tribal marlin]

I noticed that the simpliest the apl do thing and the better it is

[celest swan]

im dumb whats the problem there?^^

[marble hemlock]

but its a direct result of this opener which leads to a massive drop in sustained bleeds and forces a re-bleed of almost every target to get back to the bleed-threshold

so once those garrotes run out, you get a big hole mid-vendetta where you dont envenom at all

[tribal marlin]

I mean most of time adding some wierd specific condition lead to loss of dps for wierd reason most of the time

[bleak spoke]

Man what is that

Why

Is simbrah going for garrote 4 garrote 5 garrote 6

[marble hemlock]

the interesting part is that it doesnt pandemic-garrote the prio target 😄

[celest swan]

tbh sure that discussion is all about aoe not st right?

[tribal marlin]

6 garrote into bote is 👌🏼

[marble hemlock]

but yeah, its definitely a very differnet opener to what i/we are usually running, where we dont have vendettas as high on the prio list as long as it runs full duration, so we secure the energy-sustain before vendetta, and then dont have to rebleed a single target mid-vendetta (except for one garrote on the prio target)

[fleet anchor]

Regarding that type of scenario above about TB Evenom etc. vs skipping Rupture on the priority target

It's important to not look at it as the full Envenom damage vs. a couple ticks

You have to use Rupture anyway

And we already know Rupture > Envenom

So it's about the missing ticks from not reapplying

vs. the bonus TB damage on that particular global

But that doesn't actually beat the value of even 2 Rupture ticks on average, especially when considering the energy

[fervent jasper]

The way I've been doing it, I'd always use rupture there. But the mention of bleeds being for energy regen mostly made me question whether it could be skipped for an Envenom when energy positive

[bleak spoke]

alright yeah i see what you're saying now

[stable oxide]

@marble hemlock while doing your rotation. Do you ever come in the situation where your bleeds come of briefly at the same time that your toxic blade comes off cooldown? What do you do in those situations?

[fleet anchor]

Average non-crit (Rupture can crit too, no reason to consider it) gain from using a TB Evenom will be something 8-10k depending on TtK traits

Rupture ticks will be around 2.8-3k each

Plus 7 energy

[stable oxide]

Most of the time I pool energy for Toxic blade. But also want to reaply bleeds in pendamic timer

[bleak spoke]

but in aoe where the energy is pretty much infinite is that really a gain

[fleet anchor]

So on the main target you really don't want Rupture dropping more more than maybe 1 tick during Vendetta or something (the 2s duration threshold)

[marble hemlock]

@stable oxide m+ or raid?

[stable oxide]

Riad

[somber hill]

During single target rotation when would you activate blood of the enemy?

[stable oxide]

raid*

[marble hemlock]

shouldnt happen, frankly, except with garrote maybe

rupture is 24sec duration, tb is 25sec cd, so if you play it right you recast rupture before TB and then that behavior stays the same throughout the fight as long as you only cast 5cp ruptures

[bleak spoke]

anyone else get classic'd multiple pulls in a row by nonstop 4 point ruptures :^)

[fleet anchor]

Regarding the snapshot above, I didn't really look at the stealth action list opener stuff when adding priority_target logic at all yet

[stable oxide]

You never come in the situation where your Toxicblade comes off cooldown and your rupture is on 10 seconds or something

Where you are either forced to do a Rupture in toxic blade uptime

[marble hemlock]

nah

[fervent jasper]

@somber hill intuitively I'd say just after you secure at least 4 combo points after you pop your vendetta so you're guaranteed crits when you vanish afterwards into your master assassin window

[stable oxide]

or need to postpone toxicblade

[marble hemlock]

that really shouldnt happen

[fervent jasper]

But I could easily be wrong

[stable oxide]

Yeah but when do you always cast 5cp ruptures :p

[marble hemlock]

pmuch always?

[stable oxide]

Thats rng right?

[bleak spoke]

that happens when you refresh with 4cp ruptures during the max pandemic windows

[marble hemlock]

keep in midn that just because the pandemic window for rupture is 7.2sec

you dont have to refresh it immediately as it hits that

[stable oxide]

Hmmm

[marble hemlock]

you can refresh it at 2 or 3sec left and thats fine

[celest swan]

@marble hemlock would u refrehs rupture before pandemci to avoid using it in tb?

[marble hemlock]

refreshing as close to pandemic as possible is only important for exsanguinate builds

[fleet anchor]

Delaying TB is usually not right because the cooldown is so short, you lose a lot of effective cooldown usage over time if you delay

[marble hemlock]

so if youre at 6sec and have 4cp, you check garrote timer, if its about to hit pandemic you pool and then get to 5cp that way, or you finish envenom with 4cp, mut again and hope that the same situation doesnt occur again with rupture only having 2sec left :p

[hollow gyro]

I couldn’t finish my bote farm this week so curious, would y’all use rank 1 bote over rank 3 lucid? I’ve simmed, just not sure if accurate given how bote seems like the hot.

[fervent jasper]

@fleet anchor I always heard TB can wait for Vendetta if it's off CD and Vendetta will be in less time than your TB would be if you used it right then

[stable oxide]

I see you like to live dangerously @marble hemlock xD

[marble hemlock]

nah, its just unlikely to hit 4cp again

[bleak spoke]

That situation is what I mean by getting “classic’d”

[marble hemlock]

it might happen, and then it sucks, but just because it might happen once, doesnt change the fact that if we are in that situation 10times, 9/10 times we will get a clean 5cp rupture

[somber hill]

@fervent jasper what would the opener look like? Cus In pins it said use blood into vanish and a finisher but I feel like getting a finisher in that window would be nearly impossible if u want the elaborate planning buff too

[fleet anchor]

Anyway, I gotta run to work. Some of these ideas are good and I think looking into the opener probably has some merit. But I would definitely recommend trying out APL changes yourself if you can to test simple things. Stuff like adding TB conditions is pretty straightforward, for example. So that's something almost anyone can give a shot if they want to try an idea.

[marble hemlock]

you cant change your gameplay to a "worse" version just so youre prepared for all eventualities

and yes, i do something rupture pre-pandemic if its only a few seconds more and it makes me not fuck up my tb timings

same as i tb at 5cp

it just makes the rotation smoother, even though it might come at a tiny dps-cost

[bleak spoke]

Do you ever let yourself overcap for like a second or two

[marble hemlock]

no

unless its unavoidable

[fervent jasper]

@somber hill my opener would be Gattote, mutilate, rupture, vendetta, toxic blade, mutilate to 4 or 5 combo points, blood of the enemy, vanish, envenom, mutilate, envenom

[bleak spoke]

Alright I need to be more active then

[marble hemlock]

(i.e. bloodlust up, vendetta popped and getting 3 lucid procs, so despite hammering buttons you still cap)

[bleak spoke]

I think I might be overpooling like a minute and thirty or so into the rotation

Cuz it happens once in a while

[somber hill]

Thanks @fervent jasper gonna try it tonight on m prog I’ve been using lucid dreams mostly

[celest swan]

@marble hemlock u already have an idea what trinkets we want for m+

oh caps

sry

[bleak spoke]

Loool

[gleaming viper]

hello guys, what would make your choice between lucid dream and blood of the enemy ?

[solid nova]

When it simmed better

[fleet anchor]

A lot of essences really have to be simmed because there are a lot of stat vs. rank considerations and it's different for almost everyone

[marble hemlock]

no idea jonas

probably font of power and mechagon

if you get a high ilvl card that is

[gleaming viper]

ok, always simc 😄

[marble hemlock]

or font+spyglass

[mossy ferry]

I wish Font didn't break stealth. Anxiety inducing pre-pulls.

[bleak spoke]

Cyclotronic seems like a good answer to emissaries

[tacit plinth]

does spyglass lose much value in aoe situations where you're rebleeding?

[celest swan]

? is doesnt break stealth

[tacit plinth]

or is it primarily there for the ST prio anyway

[marble hemlock]

meant deadeye spyglass

the crit-proc one

[tacit plinth]

doesn't that require you to stay on the same target?

[marble hemlock]

no

[gleaming viper]

speaking about simc, now when i simc with back 425 instead of the back combo with ring for agi, the 425 is better, do I have too much agility? is it possible to have to much agi ? before 8.2 simc always tell me to keep the combo

[marble hemlock]

the trinket procs, applies the debuff to the target for 10seconds, then you hit it with fok or autoattacks and gain stacks

so you have 10seconds to get 5stacks, which then last 10seconds regardless of whether the target still has the debuff

and it refreshes duration if you hit the debuffed target again

[tacit plinth]

Oh ok thanks for the clarification I must be thinking of something else

[strange python]

It's worded "attacks" which is a bit confusing but yeah fok stacks it

[marble hemlock]

its the same for iris

as long as you hit the target, you keep building and maintaing stacks

even if you dont attack it directly

[quasi pewter]

eye of command @tacit plinth ?

[marble hemlock]

attack in that sense just means "hit it with a spell"

and fok does that

[tacit plinth]

Ya I think I was getting them mixed up I haven't been using mine in m+ because I thought rebleeding dropped stacks

thats good to know I just misunderstood the tooltip i guess

[formal willow]

im a little confused about the pocket sized computation device

everyone ranking high seems to use it but its not listed on hero damage and warcraftlogs doesnt show which gems they used?

[marble hemlock]

anyway, out again for now 😉

[quasi pewter]

the red punchcards are listed on herodamage @formal willow

they are just very low because they are only the effect of the red punchcard without yellow or ilvl increase

[formal willow]

oh ok

[narrow flower]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[formal willow]

thanks saryero, time to farm those cards then

[quasi pewter]

you can gamble for yellow ones at the mechagon craft guy

[urban junco]

@quasi pewter Thanks for that clarification - I was wondering why it was so low all of a sudden XD

[quasi pewter]

got a 435 that way

[urban junco]

:3

[celest swan]

from the discussion before, how many bleeds make me energy neutral? 5?

[gleaming viper]

so pcket size trinket will be BiS ?

[quasi pewter]

depends on ur other trinkets and ilvl of yours

[fresh ginkgo]

tyrannical raging explosive this week

[tacit plinth]

I forgot cyclonic is rep gated and I'm still 10k off revered on my alt 😔

oh ok thats not what they said at all lol

[normal quail]

Anyone that can help me understand simcraft? I want to see what enchants/sockets i should use

[cosmic pier]

[urban junco]

Holy fuck

GL trying to replace that

[gleaming viper]

omg

[chilly swift]

lol

[quasi pewter]

i already know im gonna get a benthic slot piece from weekly chest

[urban junco]

^

[cobalt pelican]

finna put a vanquished tendril of ghuun in my computation device

[gleaming viper]

no way, benthic can drop in weekly chest ?

[urban junco]

Slot

ie, boots, belt, bracers

[quasi pewter]

nah i mean boots or something that will be useless to me

[gleaming viper]

oh i see

[normal quail]

Anyone that can help me understand simcraft? I want to see what enchants/sockets i should use. someone? :p msg me priv if you dont want to spam the chat

[tacit plinth]

all I see is the aheago face

spooky DM's

[normal quail]

i have it to tilt a friend hahaha

[winter moss]

i guess titanforge my ass

[cobalt pelican]

i'm gonna get a socketed 450 dagger

yoink

[winter moss]

im gonna get a heart attack

for sure

[urban junco]

I'm going to get hot garbage

[gleaming viper]

a benthic 425+slot+good proc will be better than a 445 ?

[vestal wren]

yes

[winter moss]

[fervent jasper]

So it's not fortified this week?

[gleaming viper]

the belt seems usefull for only 2bosses

[vestal wren]

even without the socket they can be better (at least 2 slots are)

[fiery hazel]

just in naz, they wont be in M+

[woven summit]

I got the wrist sims higher, what else should I get? The belt and the boots?

[solid nova]

That applies to all Benthic gear

Ofc you'll have better options outside of raid

As the effect doesnt apply

[cobalt pelican]

it's pretty close tbh

425 socketed is pretty good without the effect

till you hit a socket on something higher

[solid nova]

Just standard socket value

[normal quail]

Yo Richard, ure always telling ppl to sim 😏 how do I sim to see what sockets/enchants are best for me

[stable oxide]

So the Coral trinket sims really high, but how does it actually work

Im abit confused

[winter moss]

top gear

ffs

[stable oxide]

Can someone explain

[winter moss]

[vestal wren]

use is in the pins

[winter moss]

answer 99% of the questions

[gleaming viper]

@normal quail go on raidbot website 😄

[woven summit]

I wish WoW didnt involve a third party to sim shit. Imagine if we were all left to our imagination how more fun the game would be.

[winter moss]

welp

[solid nova]

Imagine if we were all left to feelycraft

Playing sub optimally and struggling

Sure

[woven summit]

lol

Well that's the fun

[winter moss]

as long it provides us with numbers

we will always have something to compare

[celest ruin]

jfc the queue in raidbots rn

[winter moss]

premium

[tacit plinth]

Premium

[normal quail]

It was telling me that I have to compare different talents/gear blabla. currently down tho ill check again soon

[celest ruin]

yea even with premium

[tacit plinth]

It's so good

[celest ruin]

i get like 1 min queue

[vestal wren]

thats easy to solve, just play with feelcraft. so you have the tools to get better but ignore it

[winter moss]

got no Q

[tacit plinth]

Ya mine was insta

[toxic burrow]

Nothing like getting an unsocketed belt (that loses to a 420 socketed benthic belt) from the weekly chest and having to watch your guildmates get upgrades. Damn the luck

[woven summit]

damn

[stable oxide]

So I might be really dumb and stuff :< But the Pin information about the trinket didnt really help me :( I gererally don't really understand how the trinket works. You activate it, and for 20 seconds you are able to get stacks? When it then falls of it gets converted to crit?

or what

[fiery hazel]

you use it again to get a crit buff based on how many stacks you have on the target.

[tropic ocean]

Richard

Placebo play best play

[solid nova]

Then please leave the class discord

[tropic ocean]

at least higher ilvl will feel better

[winter moss]

[fresh ginkgo]

richard is a big bully

[keen elk]

Rip 445 My’daz Tali for week one

[simple meteor]

[woven summit]

[winter moss]

if you gonna cry about your drops do so somewhere else

or man up and just use it

[woven summit]

Play Classic

Wont cry about drops then

[winter moss]

@stable oxide you wanna start stacking the trinket before you actually use vendetta and use it with vend for maximal dmg output during it

#classic-discussion there you go @woven summit

[woven summit]

Nah I dont talk about Classic

Now

[near coyote]

how bad is twist the knife I see it not even posted in the guide but i got two 430s with it

its pretty bad by sound of it eh

[rigid mango]

It's good

For ST it's not too far behind the best traits

Simming should should you it's not that bad, I'm running one atm too

[near coyote]

I got double dose x2 and twist x2 on the one

ill go check sim then

[woven summit]

I have 3x DD changed 1x TTK for 1x DD simmed slightly lower

[sturdy dust]

TTK sims pretty high I believe. 3x DD, 1 TTK and 1 Blightborne seems pretty optimal

and 1 NP*

[woven summit]

What if you go subterfuge? You need 1x SS right?

[vestal wren]

you dont need to