when that add dies and your rupture is still on it, you even get a small portion of your energy back from that
#assassination
stable oxide
which is also nice
also on vectis
after phase 2
make sure you can attack vectis Asap again
so run to him beforhand
to uptimize uptime on the boss
On mother is very situational on how your guild kills the boss. Some don't even go to the last room, so you wont have the dps buff there
Cant remember how strong the wind is on Mother heroic. Just make sure you can always attack mother and maximize uptime
wary ether
sharp pawn
which boss in uldir raid drop best trinket
spice surge
None
coarse knot
@sharp pawn your bis trinkets come from m+
proper zealot
Nah, it would have to be a good GCB. I don't think a 370 base GCB beats my cannon "in sims."
The cannon's not actually that bad at all. I kinda like it.
marsh bloom
You can just snapshot Exsg righjt/
proper zealot
Well yeah, that's easy.
coarse knot
Then 100% even a 370 boon will beat that easily
marsh bloom
What else can you snapshot?
coarse knot
Just bleeds
dire spoke
your screen
coarse knot
I believe
spice surge
Not the bleeds themselves
spice surge
Its nothing to learn
marsh bloom
You can only snapshot exsg...
coarse knot
Plus I love the 1.9k agility
marsh bloom
Use GCB right before exsg
proper zealot
Yeah, there's really nothing to it.
coarse knot
I see
stable oxide
don't you lose alot of uses on your trinket that way?
stable oxide
Yeah I run toxic blade aswell 😛 So I haven't really experienced GCB yet
vast forum
Gcb 9 sec before exsg would be ideal but the cds don't line up :P
stable oxide
dont even have it
dire spoke
The trinket is not connected to exsa, it's just good for sin
spice surge
Its still basicly bis regardless
vast forum
It's especially good with exsg tho
dire spoke
Just like any haste gear piece 
proper zealot
Part of the reason my gear's as good as it is is because I have a lot of sockets. 😄
tulip falcon
@proper zealot does master assassin sim higher than subterfuge for u?
proper zealot
Just barely, but yeah.
stable oxide
Well I think the trinket kinda is bound to Exsg. I have alot of haste, and a 385 SS piece. yet TB sims higher. The only difference is that I dont have GCB. So I have the feeling that Exsg only sims higher with GCB
tulip falcon
i have a 360 gcb and still sim higher with TB
stable coyote
i got 370 Archive and 370 LM. LM sims higher for me in m+ but you'd still choose ARchive?
proper zealot
I don't really like Laser Matrix for Mythic+ or world quests and stuff like that because it has a habit of pulling everything around you, since the lasers just fly out in all directions.
This can be especially bad in Mythic+. I run Archive over Laser Matrix.
Archive actually sims higher for me than Laser Matrix does anyway, though that might be the piece in its entirety, rather than just a head-to-head of those two traits.
proper zealot
Probably. It is a small amount. It's Heed My Call on the Archive piece, versus Earthlink on the Laser Matrix piece.
vast forum
M+ sims assume you start with 0 stacks
If you don't die, archive stays at max stats and heavily outweighs lm
proper zealot
Not to mention that you can stack Archive before starting the dungeon.
Unless that changed. (I’ve never done it myself and have only seen others do it.)
proper zealot
Good stuff. I’ll be able to do it the next time I do a key.
flint walrus
If i were to provide a SimC link, any of you who could help me out with what makes sense or not for raiding? Outlaw player eager to try Sin
proper zealot
Go for it.
flint walrus
Just gonna fetch some of my 370 peices out from the bank
sudden sigil
is rezans fury really horrible?
nimble tartan
gaunt trench
Does Fathoms still worth it?
verbal mantle
Until you get high ilvl trinket, yes
I took off mine 2 weeks ago after I got Galecallers 375
gaunt trench
Thanks!
patent topaz
I dont have a 2nd trinket that sims higher
that includes 380 socket electromental, 370 dice and 370 corpuscle
verbal mantle
The only thing that makes my Loaded Dice better is its socket
otherwise I had to stick with Fathoms
which is fine cause its still a wonderful trinket
bold citrus
im a bit confused. ST sim shohws haste as best stat and AOE sim shows crit/mastery. do you guys keep 2 sets of gear or is there a balance?
stable oxide
I'm a raider so I focus on ST 😛
verbal mantle
and yes, still ST while being on ZekVos Mythic atm
stable oxide
And in M+ my damage is not bad so I don't really bother
bold citrus
ok. what are the average H/C/M you guys go for/see others
just started assa and got to 360
spice surge
Your stats doesnt matter as much as you think they do
spice surge
Just try to play well, its gonna net you way more damage than some minor tweaks to stats
stable oxide
just sim your statweight btw. It will most likely be Haste > Agility > crit for single target
or haste = agility > crit
spice surge
Or every secondary > agility when you get good gear
stable oxide
lolwut
proper zealot
Not every secondary, haha.
stable oxide
what drugs are you on
proper zealot
Not Mastery or Versatility.
tulip falcon
guys the ravenholdt guide says that we should use TB on cd but everytime i try playing with it it feels like im energy starved way more and i barely get any envenoms off during TB
is pooling something we should do?
marsh bloom
yes
proper zealot
But Haste and Crit over Agility, sure. I’m there right now.
spice surge
And im only 376 with mostly crit so i dont even get haste reorg
People with 380+ def have all stats over agi
stable oxide
I have no idea how you achieve to get such a high statweight for mastery
stable oxide
Im wondering what kind of simulation settings you are using 😛
spice surge
Yeah my gear is pretty bad, but the people with 18k+ have most stats around 2.1 and agi at like 2.0
Baseline ofc?
echo geyser
Does Haste procs (like galecaller's) affect poisions and bleeds that are already on targets?
spice surge
Yes
echo geyser
And it only "buffs" it by making more ticks in the same duration right?
spice surge
Yes
echo geyser
Okay thanks for clarifying
stable oxide
Ahhh
you are using Twist the knifes and master assassin
that might be why mastery is better
and mastery might effect double dose aswell
spice surge
It doesnt
spice surge
Not 100%
tulip falcon
how much should i pool for tb then? also is it worth saving sharpened blades for tb?
spice surge
No because tb doesnt increase sb
Its physical, not nature
You dont really need to pool anything tbh
Just use tb on cd
marsh bloom
You should pool a little
marsh bloom
to get 2+ envenoms in your TB
stable oxide
^
quick ice
ideally you want to SB inside EP though
stable oxide
and make sure you use TB on 3-4 cp
spice surge
Not if that means delaying tb
spice surge
It doesnt really matter to pool though
stable oxide
The hard part with that is that you dont want to refresh garrote/rupture during tb
It does Eleem 😛 If you want 2 Envenoms with EP
spice surge
Simc mostly shows losses trying any sort of pooling for TB
stable oxide
It depends on the situation ofc
spice surge
Show me a sim where its a gain to pool and ill change my mind, me and multiple other people have tried and it never showed a gain
visual token
What do you gain from not pooling? As long as you aren’t energy capped doing more during tb window will always be more.
stable oxide
Well, I know sims tell alot. But keep in mind you are not a computer 😛 I find warcraftlogs more reliable then Simc because its an actual representation of what the human being can achieve 😛
proper zealot
I’m a computer.
visual token
Everything is a simulation but that’s a different topic
quick ice
sim shows we pool for about 4 seconds iirc across a 5min fight
heady tusk
i'm a helicopter
proper zealot
beep boop
dry badge
How many ilvls is it worth to go down from Dagger in the back to SS for Mpluss?
stable oxide
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ph5KJWyHgnMDvCDHJZ9jhZ wtf happend to my crit
echo night
Is crimson tempest still goto this week considering bolstering?
heady tusk
the point is to kill them all together stab
echo night
So thats a yes then :p
drifting elbow
its only going to be avoided when big guy is grouped up with small hp mobs
echo night
Such as Kings rest type of scenario i take it?
heady tusk
like shrine ritualist 
mossy hazel
Wooo, finally got a couple orange parses last night!
solid nova
mossy hazel
Unfortunately they weren't on the kills...
solid nova
heady tusk
got 13 on vectis last week and i got gestate on me once 😢
mossy hazel
2 orange parse on MOTHER, kill was blue because I died in second room...
stable oxide
vectis is the only boss I have trouble with logging >.<
stable oxide
Yeah thats shitty xD
Got one on the pull last week
while my vendetta and everything was up xD
mossy hazel
Ouch...
stable oxide
btw when you use vendetta on the boss at the start. do you ignore the adds. or only swap for a fast garrote rupture?
on vectis that is
Mythic
mossy hazel
But it's probably not work asaving the cds for him
topaz axle
if your raid has the dps to kill it before second cast without you then don't worry
don't wipe your raid for a parse
stable oxide
Vectis is on farm with my guild 😛
heady tusk
oh what i said is only for pull actually
mossy hazel
God I don't understand why I still parse so poor on taloc
heady tusk
after liquefy you do 1 normal garrote and rupture on boss
quick ice
can you kill the 1st add before its thing goes off? we always look close but its never happened
stable oxide
is it more benefitial to just stay on the boss while vendetta is up, or swap for a garrote rupture and then go on the boss again
heady tusk
and then vanish to use 2 garrote on add and 1 on boss
quick ice
1st cast*
heady tusk
that way ull have 24 sec gar on boss and add
heady tusk
and stay on boss with vendetta for sure
most of ppl have cds on that first add so you dont have to focus it
mossy hazel
Ugh... I can't wait for my new mouse tomorrow... My vanish never went off in my opener on taloc, that's probably why my parse was so low
heady tusk
oh you are not playing with SS on vectis?
heady tusk
dont use toxic blade then..
pallid spruce
What you think two [Shrouded Suffocation] and 1 titan. OR one [Shrouded Suffocation] and one [Tidal Surge] and one titan ?
heady tusk
there is no way toxic sims higher with 2 archive and 1 SS
i have the same build
exsa is 10 times better
hasty wing
pallid spruce
what you ?
spice surge
You cant exsang 2 targets though
stable oxide
How does exgs matter with 2 targets :p?
stable oxide
Yeah indeed 😛 Thats why I use SS 😛
heady tusk
idk man i play with exha on vectis and my dps is high as fuck
i really dont cares about sims i care more about performance
mossy hazel
I just realized, I want from almost all green parses last week, to orange and purple/blue parses this week with no gear changes
heady tusk
and experience
mossy hazel
I'm pretty pumped about that
pallid spruce
What you think two [Shrouded Suffocation] and 1 titan. OR one [Shrouded Suffocation] and one [Tidal Surge] and one titan ?
heady tusk
how much haste do you have sylli?
heady tusk
btw main hand with masterful navigation sims 436 more damage than quick
off with deadly
stable oxide
that depends on your statweight right?
stable oxide
on my statweight mastery is still below crit and haste
stable oxide
thats while I have quick navigation
stable oxide
But if my statweight sim tells me haste is still better with quick navigation on my wep. how can masterful navigation be better then quick :P?
stable oxide
Idk 😛 i'll try it out when im home
quick ice
stat weights get weird when you're dealing with enchants tbh
spice surge
I highly doubt mastery enchant sims 436 more than haste
I dont even think the enchants on their own gives that much
quick ice
that does seem weird, but I think its close to that
spice surge
Ye lol i was right, i just simmed that guy with haste instead of mastery and got 0.4% gain
quick ice
no enchant 16754, enchant 17100 on my sim
spice surge
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f7E2MzGPgBkfV1ofg3gHfK (swapped name to my name but its his gear)
quick ice
did you try him with masterful/quick?
heady tusk
yeah thats mine
quick ice
you linked masterful/deadly?
heady tusk
im trying again cause it didnt sim like that before
heady tusk
cant help you its hc 😛
marsh bloom
just my rotation
you can still help me to see if I fucked up or what I could be doing better
I remember I didn't use a vnish one time with a vendetta so that kinda fucked me lol
heady tusk
eleem i found what was wrong with my sim, for some reason i didnt have any gem cause i used replace accidently.... my bad
shrewd pine
Did u read a guide?
spice surge
@marsh bloom You're barrely using your galecaller, should get 7 casts but you only got 5.
Same with vendetta/vanish, should get 4 casts on a 6+ min fight but you only got 3
dry badge
is it mandetory to have 1 Achrive of the titans for Mpluss?
marsh bloom
Sim says to line it up with Exsg
vast forum
If this was legion, i'd tell you to get better at proccing pb, but i can't help u now
vast forum
@dry badge no, 3xSS is best
dry badge
@vast forum Dont have 3 ss atm, but how many items lvl shuld I go down to get it? got a dagger in the back 385 but only 355 SS
vast forum
Obviously, we're talking traits, not ilvl
heady tusk
ive seen that happen so many times
they just swap 385 gear for 340 just because ppl tell him 3 ss is better
vast forum
Just sim 4-5 targets 40-60 sec with no buffs (or buffs your grp has)
dry badge
but 10 lvls is good then I guess
marsh bloom
Why does the sim only use vendetta twice?
quick ice
for what length fight?
heady tusk
use it on cd
spice surge
Not on a 6min exactly, but your was 6.30
marsh bloom
how would I get 4 uses?
heady tusk
you get 1 on pull and 2 after 2 min and 3 after 4 min and 4 if its 6 min and 20 sec fight
marsh bloom
my fight was 5:14?
spice surge
The fight you linked was 6.27
solid nova
And on that fight you only used it 3 times
heady tusk
yeah you could have 4 there
solid nova
^
spice surge
Not if it means you miss casts
strange python
Opener for no SS and ToxicBlade??
heady tusk
you dont save vende for exsg
you save exsg for vendetta
you wait that 15 sec that you have left on vendetta cd*
spice surge
As i said, it depends on fight length
heady tusk
you always use 2 exsa inside vendetta cd
spice surge
Its better to hold vendetta for 15 seconds than exsang for 15s, as the chance you'll miss a vendetta cast is lower (because the window is longer)
But ideally you should just know the fight length and plan ahead
cobalt gyro
fwiw planning ahead gets a lot easier once your team's consistent so that phases/kill times are always around the same
if it varies wildly from pull to pull it's pretty much just all on the fly
heady tusk
but its not about the time of the fight
spice surge
Ofc it si
heady tusk
i never had an issue where i have to use a 3rd exsa and keep vendetta
every fight on myth ive done i use vendetta on cd
that means i can use 2 exsa in between
spice surge
If you hold exsang for 30 seconds every 2 mins
You lose out on A LOT of casts on a long fight
quick ice
^
vast forum
Just line up exsg with gcb and you never have to worry again
vast forum
It's not
spice surge
Idk why you people intentionally increase the CD of your exsang by 33%
well yes if you use it every 60 seconds instead of 45
vast forum
Becsuse it's much stronger with gcb
spice surge
Its not twice as strong
drifting elbow
delaying everytime for 15 sec in 5min fight 
cobalt gyro
It's not strong enough to be worth losing casts of exsang
stray root
Can u guys explain to me why am I simming 45k on a 6 target 40 sec SIM but when I try to do it myself in dungeons I never get passed 25k?
drifting elbow
most likely cuz u r not doing same rotation as in sim
spice surge
Because you dont have bloodlust for every pull? 🤔
drifting elbow
vanish and stuff
slender sandal
U also prolly dont have lust all cds potion buffs ect
west gate
I have a problem doing good logs on g'huun I would be glad if you could give me some advises how too improve on that fight. Thanks in advance https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/ravencrest/Drgirlfriend#difficulty=4
stray root
I see but is lust and vanish really going to give me 20k dps?
bronze kelp
multi dot in p1, get lucky with bubble debuff, have cds rdy for burn phase
drifting elbow
if u got ALL buffs, it is definitely going to be 40+k multitarget dps
west gate
Do you save Vandetta for that
strange python
I've not played assassination for long, would crippling poison be good against infested adds for +10s?
spice surge
You always use crippling
west gate
use it at start and burn phase ?
spice surge
@strange python Crippling and deadly are not exclusive, you can use both
strange python
Ahh thanks, am warlock main, rolled a rogue for more fun in m+ 😄
drifting elbow
i wouldnt say more fun as melee when u got responsibilities compared to ranged 🙃
strange python
is 2x double dose good for raiding?
verbal mantle
quick ice
summary: maybe!
echo geyser
Assa rogue on Zek voz mythic, Poison bomb or CT?
quick ice
depends if you're struggling with little add damage tbh
CT if you are, PB if you aren't, imo
echo geyser
ok thanks
quick ice
not that I'm speaking from experience, I play sub that fight because our guild has massive AOE and needs the voidweaver damage
echo geyser
oh that also seems really nice
because the small adds are up at the same time as weavers?
echo geyser
how much haste did u play with sub on that fight then
just go for low and max mastery crit vers?
spice surge
If you don't lose a cast for it
But you def do it with your second vendetta for it to line up with vanish
So you should get one full combo of at like 2.25-2.30
celest chasm
Is it worth taking shrouded suffocation over Archive of teh titans?
quick ice
sometimes
celest chasm
what criteria should i look at?
quick ice
ilvl, whether its your only trait with reorigination, etc
celest chasm
Ah ok
Atm i got 355 and this is my only Archive / SS trait. On my helmet i got laser matrix.
desert vault
Maan I want some DD gear. Might give up on MA and head back to the SS life. Too many adds in pretty much every uldir fight
Archive is decent in m+ and very strong in uldir of course.
You can use laser matrix in uldir as well since you get reorgination from it which is the biggest thing.
celest chasm
So both give reorgination?
quick ice
yes
celest chasm
mm
see SS being really high rated but both herodamage and blootmallet say its one of the lowest ones..
quick ice
yeah its in a weird place, where its really good for some situations
but straight ST DPS with the MA/TB build herodamage/bloodmallet use its not great
gleaming geyser
Yes
plush pike
Just feels wrong using 340 gear for 3x ss and 385/370 for raiding
drifting elbow
that because BOTH mallet and hero dmg doesnt create a scenario where u get out of combat
celest chasm
yea
drifting elbow
SS gains value when u garrote from out of combat
plush pike
Wish it was ezer to get helm/shoulder with ss
wheat zealot
Helm is the real challenge you can get 370 ss shoulders from emissary
spice surge
@drifting elbow Herodamage does put you out of combat for stealth
In their m+ sims
Otherwise SS wouldnt be good at all
See mystlers second most recent post in #tc-updates
plush pike
Lol
spice surge
But youre not playing outlaw
calm grail
Yeah it's alpha AF
pearl meteor
pearl meteor
Im 50dps off 18k with exsang 🙄
hollow cloud
same
calm grail
Got GCs finally. Got 2 385 SS 1 Archive and 1DD/DiTB 1 Archive
calm grail
And it simulates like 300 DPS behind
pearl meteor
U have good traits for tb?
calm grail
Yeah
385 DD and DiTB.
For exsang I have 2 385 SS
I just feel like GCs with TB feels funny
I know it's easy to use, but it just feels lackluster
pearl meteor
Mhm, tb/dd if optimized will sim better than optimized exsang/ss
Still wld use exsang over it for a lot of the fights though.
In raid
spice surge
I got a trophy from my pvp chest this week and the conquest reward is a DD helm 😄
Pog
calm grail
With GC and TB I know you still toxic blade on cooldown, but I know you can hold GC, I just don't know how long is appropriate.
Hold GC for TB a little bit
hollow cloud
GC? 
pearl meteor
It shld line up 1min / 30s?
calm grail
I will just add up the spent time in my head 
spice surge
TB has 25 sec cd
pearl meteor
O
spice surge
For some reason
spice surge
I would prefer if it were 30s instead, so much easier to line up stuff
calm grail
I would say no more than like 5 to 7 seconds
As a rule of thumb
I'm thinking about that even that sounds like a lot actually.
calm grail
I just need a 385 archive off of vectis and my Azerite game is doneee
Well I guess I could get a 385 double dose chest.. whats the name of that chest?
pearl meteor
🤷♀️
pearl meteor
oblique flax
Yo ! what do we think about using double on use trinkets in raids
celest chasm
Jerkin of the Aberrant Chimera ..
@oblique flax i dont think its handy because they share a cooldown
wheat zealot
@oblique flax double on use is generally bad
celest chasm
oh misread 😃
desert vault
so just got thrown in mythic Vectis last night ... use cloak for soaking/double soaking? Feint everytime you soak? What other utility stuff is there to worry about?
calm grail
I wish construct overcharger wasn't rubbish.
wheat zealot
385 gets outsimmed by 350s
calm grail
Soaking doesn't really seem to do shit
wheat zealot
calm grail
Uhh
Cloak at the end of the debuff
To avoid stacks
You can save a lot of stacks that way.
Be a hero.
wheat zealot
The vector
calm grail
Yeah
wheat zealot
Omega vector
calm grail
Yeab
desert vault
vector, yeah was blanking
calm grail
Cloak towards the end of that and you won't get the healing debuff.
desert vault
so at the end of debuff, oh ok didn't know that
calm grail
Errr
wheat zealot
Will help you not reach 6 stacks
desert vault
like last 3-4s of it?
calm grail
However long you want
wheat zealot
Helps a lot towards the end of the fight
calm grail
Just use it before the end of it
desert vault
you want to feint when in the soaking pools right? don't they do some aoe damage or something?
calm grail
If you know you are about to get imminosupressed and have the vector falling off.
Hit two birds with that glow
Cloak*
wheat zealot
If you can, try and get vector early in the fight, so you can get cloak on cd and negate multiple stacks
mossy hazel
Vectis:
CloS and Feint work on Plague Bomb.
Does Feint lessen damage from Contagion?
CloS prevents damage from Omega Vector and if you CloS just before Omega Vector expires, you do not gain a stack of Lingering Infection.
CloS removes stacks of Lingering Infection, help out your healers if you get a high number of stacks. No longer true.
wheat zealot
Very helpful for your raid
mossy hazel
From the guide
Actually that last line is crossed out since it doesn't apply anymore
desert vault
yeah cloak doesn't remove stacks, i noticed that
calm grail
I have been considering running elusiveness since nothing there can outright one shot you
desert vault
that would be pretty broken
mossy hazel
Not a bad idea Nira
mossy hazel
Yup, it's a pretty heal intensive fight so every little bit
calm grail
Obviously drink your vial even during immunosupression.
desert vault
last night was my first go at the fight, only did like 8 pulls, so still getting used to things since the adds are always in melee range of the group you are in
calm grail
Yeah it's probably a DPS loss but if it's progress your Healers will love you
desert vault
was always worried I get to far out of my group or to close to another vector
calm grail
Can't emphasize enough hard swapping to the adds. your damage won't be super good but you should at least get your dots on them
The only thing I'm conflicted about is not really swapping when I have vendetta on the boss or TB
🤔
desert vault
yeah I guess if I move out of group, swap, dot, then move back and hop back on boss or something
I don't swap on the first add cause I'm usually still in my opener and everyone has their CDs popped so it dies super fast
calm grail
Same.
mossy hazel
I havne't done mythic vec yet so I don't know about the moving out of group bit
desert vault
I'm thinking about leaving the 17k club to go back to SS+Subt from MA+TB ...
calm grail
Mythic Vectis is pretty much played using a WA
desert vault
200 DPS loss, but I think the SS is too strong on most of these mythic fights
calm grail
To carefully manage stacks.
desert vault
Mythic Vectis take some getting used to for sure, trying coming into your group once they are constantly getting it to sub 20% and trying to play catch up, its fun
everyone knows the fight in and out except you 😃
calm grail
They are having you use the group WA right?
desert vault
yeah the one that shows stacks and the other one that shows the green/red circle for when you have 6+ stacks
calm grail
If you know your melee well, you guys can just stack on each other and adjust for vector swapping.
desert vault
I just stand on my marker and if I get vector I just stay put and let the people with more XP on the fight come get it or not if they want it 😃
calm grail
What's nice though about that fight is if you don't have it and you aren't swapping it you can go ham on the add.
Just make sure not to fuck with another group.
desert vault
yeah, that is where I get stuck is worrying i'm too close or w/e to the wrong person if i move out for add
I just am not comfortable enough yet, to really track when the vector is falling off someone other than myself and stuff
calm grail
I think the WA tells the time.
Just don't be humping another group when the timer runs out
desert vault
oh? huh ok, i'll have to pay more attention to the stack WA, it is in a weird spot on my screen and I can't seem to move that WA so was hard to notice for me at first
my UI is awful though, play with classic and all that stuff. Tried the Elv or w/e it is, just didn't like it at all
I just hope I can land the vectis head piece so I can go back to my 2x 370 SS setup and dump the 385 Twist Head I got in my weekly this week
calm grail
I want it to finish up my gear. 2 385 SS for m+ with that helm would be 
primal quest
hello! maybe a bit offtopic here but if i put my artifact in the bank will i still be getting progress towards the unlocks of the appearances and such?
calm grail
Archive
desert vault
yeah archive is what its needed for, yep. I'm hoping they have another 370 WQ today, been a few days
I'd love a DD, don't have a single piece with it
visual token
Yes you get progress if it is in your bank.
summer stone
Might be a dumb question but when am I supposed to pull energy?
wheat zealot
Do you mean pool?
summer stone
yeah sorry been up for a while
thorn crater
boys
does opener without SS and no MA change?
i mean it does
but u still garrote twice at start right
i was thinking sth like gar muti gar
drifting elbow
u dont double garrote at start with no SS
thorn crater
i dont have MA
celest ruin
damn why do uldir trinks suck so hard
drifting elbow
thats normal
thorn crater
i mena
wheat zealot
Its in the ravenholdt guide
bright shale
Sirs. Why am I doing so bad on zekvoz. What's the secret. Mythic ofc
tidal coyote
i mean vectis for a melee is like 2 mechanics
that fight is all on healers and ppl just not being idiots
barren forge
@bright shale got the buff for more dmg?
hollow stone
@bright shale playing outlaw
stable oxide
On zek'voz, specc crimson tempest, be lucky to get the buff at the right moment and something I do with ss trait is: save vanish for when the adds spawn, then vanish and garrote 4 adds
But its mainly the buff
if you are one of the first ones who will get it you will never parse high
cerulean walrus
I honestly threw on a Scent of Blood and tossed ruptures around
Works pretty well imo
stable oxide
yeah but then you need to use your cp on ruptures instead of crimson tempests
cerulean walrus
I suppose that's true
hollow stone
Pb is fine on zek tbh. But you do you
cerulean walrus
YEah I had PB
hollow stone
Assuming your group isnt struggling w the warr adds, of course
And if your group is struggling w the warrs, you really should play outlaw
stable oxide
Yeah ofc
hollow stone
Yea. You just spec ks and save it for the adds. Your parse will be poopy but youll get the kill
So theres multiple factors than just "this is how you do it as sin"
cerulean walrus
Flurry>KS>Win
stable oxide
The main reason for good parses is the time you get the buff though
cerulean walrus
easy AF
hollow stone
Good parses on zek shouldnt be your concern when progressing. Because, like sylli is saying, thats all about the buff
Good parses usually get first orb, die, get brezed, dps through lust, then get a 2nd buff
cerulean walrus
But wouldn't your parse get slashed by dying?
hollow stone
Like, its completely different than killing it for the first time
stable oxide
I think you don't have to die to get top parses
hollow stone
You dont have to, no
But it makes it easier imo
It also depends if your group is pushing before or after 3rd add spawn
stable oxide
most optimal is when you get the buff at a time so that you will get mindcontrolled when the boss reaches 0% and you have saved your last vendetta to use during that buff
hollow stone
Yea. But unless your kill is for you to parse, lust will be used before that
stable oxide
Most likely
My first few kills I had to take the orbs as one of the first
and got either greylogs or blues
then I got the orb at a good time and got a 95%
cerulean walrus
I've never been able to pull above an 89% on Zucc
I got lucky once and have never been able to top it since
crisp hollow
we have two excellently performing ele shams so the aoe fights are a complete writeoff for me
cerulean walrus
lul
cunning shell
I read the pins and guides and stuff and I cant work out why my SIM dps is so low on my rogue compared to my DH considering there is only a 3 ilvl difference. Can anyone see any reason why my SIM is so low?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pjTtZEZyRMN9DNbWBzGoPP
eager haven
Try running with exang/elaborate planning instead of master poisoner and tb
strange python
Scent of blood for ST 😬
dawn flicker
Is it worth to save exsang ~15 sec for galecallers always?
rocky notch
Never unless you know you won't lose a cast
cunning shell
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9xmYMd9PQJY1HaCWDxVAmz
Barely increased it 😦
Am I right in thinking that that SIM DPS is quite low for my ilvl. I can hit over 17k dps on my DH at that ilvl (but then I go do have insane weapons on DH (395 and 385)
subtle tundra
2 Frost dks 1 dh 2 Frost mages 2 eles on zek mythic mobs die instantly
eager haven
Yeah now you just need a bunch more haste lol
stable oxide
You only have 3 reorigination arrays
cunning shell
Okay so is it my stat weights? Just need mroe Haste?
inner pulsar
You also only have 3 stacks of array
stable oxide
Rupture trait is not good on ST
eager haven
Also that lol
stable oxide
Thats what I said 😛
inner pulsar
Oops, sorry didn’t see someone had said it already
cunning shell
Okay so try get more Haste, dropping Vers. And get a Azerite change on Scent of Blood
Are those the 2 biggest things?
inner pulsar
Mythic mother dagger would make a big difference too
cunning shell
Guess who forgot to buy their bonus roll before killing it last week
summer stone
got that bad boy last night
cunning shell
Thats ony my DH - with the 385 with socket in off-hand - Just want that luck on rogue
Okay, so,
1 - get Mythic MOTHER dagger
2 - Reaplce SoB trait
3 - Get more Haste
Thanks for your guys help I have something to aim for now
fiery cradle
slim olive
@summer stone Nah he means this dagger https://i.gyazo.com/0747507c846000c0920135185076c55b.png
rocky notch
18k club with base mythic dagger :sephuz:
summer stone
😆
celest chasm
im not even in the 15k club T_T
stable oxide
Im so triggered though.... personalloot really fucks me over xD Im one of the 3 rogues in my guild and 1 rogue already got 2 daggers from Uldir, the other rogue has 1 and I simply cant get my daggers.... 😢
not from bonusroll nor normal drop xD
cerulean depot
How about 18k club without mythic daggers, in 375 ilvl?
sullen pagoda
celest chasm
you think its worth going for Planning over Poison mastery? Does it change the playstyle a lot?
cerulean depot
sullen pagoda
nice 10 sockets
stable oxide
Im in love with your gear 😦
sullen pagoda
do u even mythic
strange python
3/8
unkempt karma
18k 😛 Can barely get to 16k
strange python
2 of ur pieces are from weekly
sullen pagoda
his ye
strange python
Ive gotten 1 370 azerite at the beginning of m+ and thats it
sullen pagoda
mine are from mythic + weekly with shit trait
celest chasm
All i get is 355 shoulders
cerulean depot
I mean, 375 dagger tho
celest chasm
but then again i have issues getting invited into groups over 6+
strange python
At least they dropped from m+ 😉
celest chasm
atleast azerite gives some flexibility
sullen pagoda
they never dropped 🔫
celest chasm
i'm happy with the parrot i got from Freehold 😃
cerulean depot
Y, first patch problem. I stopped playing for 6 months after finishing en, and returned to the game in much better state
unkempt karma
it would give flexibility if you had a choice, as in after weekly to pick 1 out of 2/3 to chase specific traits
elder cypress
@cerulean depot is this ur raidgear? For m+ its bad
unkempt karma
atm you just sit and wait and hope that rng procs
celest chasm
Wait, you guys have raid and m+ gear?
strange python
Yes?
sullen pagoda
but in reality azerite traits arent THAT impactful
sullen pagoda
no they arent
unkempt karma
they are.
sullen pagoda
xD
unkempt karma
Try 3 ss in m+
cerulean depot
@elder cypress have 375 PvP trinket for m+ and 385 ss hat for m+. Stuck with this chest for now.
strange python
https://gyazo.com/ef959577f9fcd10208bf21b8da8a19a6 Traits arent impactful btw
elder cypress
M+ , raid, PvP gear yea
strange python
7 ilvls
sullen pagoda
did u count how many gems he has maybe @strange python
unkempt karma
rng.
elder cypress
@khebul take a 355 chest or 370 with ss for m+ doubledose is St trait
unkempt karma
meaning if hes lucky, fuck yeah
unkempt karma
so take an 385 azirte vs a 370. all 3 of them with bis traits and none bis
then compare
cerulean depot
@elder cypress nah, not worth it.
strange python
He has 8 and u have 4
unkempt karma
and tell me its just 200 dps or 300 dif
elder cypress
Ofc it is
strange python
Traits make a huge difference
unkempt karma
apparently not lmao
sullen pagoda
they really dont
but w.e
only impactful trait is SS in dungeons and having one raid trait for buff
rest u have like 5 traits that barely seem differently
but please go blame your traits for blue logs
😃
sullen pagoda
u do understand that a 370 item with gem is better than 385 item
unkempt karma
so traits do nothing but gems do
Meaning, you cant whine on traits but you can whine on sockets
gg
strange python
They are very impactful
calm grail
Super impact
calm grail
Yeah.
strange python
???
mossy hazel
I mean, wouldn't the simple solution here be to just run 2 sims on the same character with 2 random ass traits of equal ilvl...
Instead of going back and forth like this
For science!
strange python
Sure
celest chasm
i wish raidbots would implement an option where you can pick different azerite traits
strange python
Give me 2 minutes
fervent fox
so one of our alt rogues got this last night...while i'm still rocking 365 daggers...feelsbad
bright shale
"u do understand that a 370 item with gem is better than 385 item"
This is actually not true and depends on the secondaries and your weights. Unless it's the identical item.
strange python
of course
bright shale
I got z 385 scalp last night too but no socket wf
crystal vault
Hey, the ravenhold pinned guide, is the opener up to date? New to assa.
mossy hazel
Yea, there's like 6 openers on there
bright shale
Opener depends on trait n spec but ya its good
stable oxide
yeah rng is nice
I've killed and rolled an extra coin on Mother Mythic from the start she was up
and still no dagger
crystal vault
yeah i got 1SS and playing with esx. So i will take a look
desert vault
Ugh ... I just can't decide whether or not to swap back to SS and Subt ... hmm hmm hmm
I guess 1% isn't the end of the world
stable oxide
Just play what you like
primal gazelle
@cerulean depot whats your haste % at? weird that mastery is your highest stat
desert vault
I don't mind either really, but I think the SS will just help a bit with adds and stuff on Vectis/Fetid
stable oxide
I mean, I had a shoulderpiece with Thunderous blast and Sharpend blades. I really dislike sharpend blades so I just went for Thunderous blast 😛
inner pulsar
Wait, I read all that shit about traits and there was no payoff in the end where Mtvcribs gets shit on with sim knowledge? What the hell
stable oxide
although Sharpend blades simmed 100 dps better or something
desert vault
Think about going to the SS/Subt build that is 16,860
cerulean depot
@primal gazelle 1350 afair. Don't remember %
primal gazelle
celest chasm
i hate you all with your 370+ ilvl and 17k dps gumpy mode
stable oxide
why do you have an agility gem? while haste has a higher statweight?
desert vault
Oh yeah, good point 😃
primal gazelle
because i do other content too, like pvp, m+
stable oxide
WHY DO I SEE A MASTERY SOCKET THERE
desert vault
I was in the middle of raid last night and only had the agi on me, so just slapped it in there
primal gazelle
agi is good all around
sullen pagoda
@inner pulsar how was i getting shit on with sim knowledge
when someone thinks being 300 sim dps lower is gamebreaking 🤔
primal gazelle
@stable oxide i was sub for m zul, socketed my weapons with mastery
stable oxide
dont know how much I got in my Zul gear
strange python
Whats your sim dps for zul Dayvenie?
stable oxide
But I had a really good parse on Zul 😛
Triats on Zul make the difference though
holy shit
primal gazelle
for 6 target 4 min sim, about 52k (without removing the multi dot condition bc idk how)
wouldnt really trust that sim, but i just use it to see which gear is best for zul
unkempt karma
got 370 here but not doing more then 15.8k. Itemlvl isnt all
sullen pagoda
my raid wiped every time i was about to get rank 1 on zul 😂 🔫
inner pulsar
I said it didn’t happen, someone was supposed to post a compare between a sim with the exact same gear, on with good traits, one with bad, to demonstrate that your “traits don’t matter” nonsense is in fact, nonsense
primal gazelle
i would say traits make about a 2-5% difference per stack depending on what youre comparing to
sullen pagoda
traits do matter to an extend but except SS in m+ everything else is small difference between few traits while people think not having certain trait completely puts u behind
strange python
Why is mastery so important;
sullen pagoda
compare that to legion legendaries
sullen pagoda
not having mantle is GLHF getting any orange logs in nh except with some insane rng on crits
short galleon
hey guys new to assa rogue - i heard alot obout the garrote trait but is it still a must have? i looked at bloodmallet and there its pretty low compared to other traits
primal gazelle
is having 2 first dance traits overkill?
strange python
Mtvcribs Nights Vengeance still sims me higher than headpiece with 1st dance.
cerulean depot
Idk about first dance for zul, one of the charges is always wasted on crawg damage. I'd prefer straight stat buff instead.
inner pulsar
First Dance is exceptionally strong on Zul
cerulean depot
tropic shadow
That’s frost mages
primal gazelle
LOL
cerulean depot
That's tank btw
sullen pagoda
https://i.imgur.com/uencwfG.png when the opener goes ur way
celest chasm
oida
primal gazelle
whats your highest evis crit
sullen pagoda
when i went with full mastery i was close to 200k
around 195k i think
but i had like 2.3k mastery
https://i.imgur.com/kWwNIyQ.png lying it was 185k
primal gazelle
nice
mine was 193k, just realized i didnt 2nd pot during the cds for that hit also forgot to run NS instead of SF by accident lol
hopefully 200k next week 😄
sullen pagoda
i need to wait for ghuun prog to be over to try again 😂 🔫
celest ruin
but it sims lower than everything
worldly orbit
does anyone still use ss outside m+?
celest chasm
this makes me feel like i need to pick up sub again(tho i suck balls and it feels wet noodle spec when you are on your low phases)
primal gazelle
i only play sub for 1 fight
celest chasm
for Zul?
primal gazelle
yea
arctic lake
everyone talking about not sin things in the sin channel
celest chasm
I normally play outlaw for Zul
desert vault
I wonder my SS/Subt opener feels so low, like watching meters on dummy I rarely see it peak over 20-25k, no buffs of course, but still
cerulean depot
👌
desert vault
always feels like second Vanish/Vend combo has bigger burst that opener ...
royal lantern
outlaw for zul...? why
desert vault
boy, now on the dummy I'm dipping below 10k right after my vanish > 2x garrote ...
cerulean depot
Either not mythic or troll @royal lantern
celest chasm
@royal lantern Raid leader wants me to focus on zul +cleave the adds and yea not mythic
royal lantern
but sub is better for focus fire on zul? except you REALLY need that cleave on the adds cus everyone else is shit and does 0 aoe at all
celest chasm
don't know
safe matrix
Anyways further discussion about subtlety on zul should go into #subtlety or #wow-general
#assassination is for assassination stuff
hoary copper
@cerulean walrus there I posted your question for you xD
hoary copper
mmhmm
quaint flare
tropic shadow
Is reorigination array set before entering combat, or can it dynamically change from trinket/enchant procs
dusk sun
anyone have a macro to target explosive orbs
cerulean walrus
Like when I had First Mate's Spyglass my RA would swap to crit over haste because it got higher
hoary copper
if I recall, you cant macro explosives
cerulean walrus
It was actually pretty ridiculous with my MA cause I would end up with essentially 100% crit for MA duration
dusk sun
oh rip
tropic shadow
Oh that’s pretty neat
dusk sun
would have been nifty
cerulean walrus
So it felt just like Mantle of the Master Assassin
hoary copper
it would have trivialized the whole thing tho. You can tab or mouseover them tho
cerulean walrus
This week's affixes don't seem too terrible. For some reason my guild is always scared of Tyrannical though
I don't know why
haughty flame
crisp hollow
tyrannical is easier than fortified atm
cerulean walrus
Dude it feels fine without SS, just feels like legion again
crisp hollow
im sure that changes when we start pushing higher and boss hp outscales fortified and makes tyrannical fights super long
at atm in a vacuum it's a lot easier to make times with tyran and phat trash pulls than fortified and quick bosses
cerulean walrus
Could you imagine Tyrannical, Fortified, Bolstering if that was possible?
crisp hollow
i could imagine doing a +10 and calling it for the week
if they made explosives cause other affixes i'd quit M+ tbh
like if they bolstered, left sanguine
or spawned MORE ORBS
primal gazelle
@haughty flame it certainly does feel weird, my SS trait sims 400 dps lower cos its 370 vs 385 dd but ehhh
sanguine fortified was so aids i hated it
ghuuns spawn inside the sanguine so you cant even attack it without taking dmg
cerulean walrus
DK grip op
crisp hollow
do the sang pulls expand faster than legion?
they honestly feel...harder? than legion
cerulean walrus
It feels that way
crisp hollow
less of a joke affix anyway, esp with ghuun weenies landing in it
primal gazelle
sang was an ignored mechanic early legion
then they buffed the range of it, the heal and the damage
cerulean walrus
Lul explosives spawning explosives
cerulean walrus
Oh there's one! Oh another one! Another one! Another one!
wheat zealot
Lul
crisp hollow
sang+griev actually turned out to be a hard week this expac while in legion it'd be a push week if your healer was decent
touching the pool then getting stacks slowed the whole thing down
i'm sure with no melee it'd be fine
but i'm melee 😦
cerulean walrus
For some reason my M+ team couldn't comprehend that on Trothak you don't just sprint away from the sharks
our healer got destroyed so many times
placid elbow
cerulean walrus
tfw my haste was literally 1337 for a long time
I never wanted it to change but the sweet upgrade was too much
sturdy python
Hopefully you took a picturr
cerulean walrus
I did
zinc zephyr
how much hp do Eplosive Orbs have?
vocal wave
Hey guys, need a bit of a hand. I'm currently progging on Vectis atm, and my Outlaw weapons are better than my Sin ones. 370+365 vs 365 + 355 on Sin.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dcueukA7sUoEunQcEDfT8M
Vs
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wZgMpqAWHk3yJTAMV5X4ZA
At this point and weapon ilvl difference, is there any benefit for me going Sin on this particular fight? Does Vectis still take dmg from DoTs while in the second phase? Would the weapons on Outlaw simply outdo my Sin dmg at this point?
ornate mantle
havent seen the hp of explosive orb but they die really easy @zinc zephyr
sudden sigil
Hmm
How come simcraft says double dose does more dmg then arcvhieve with 10 stacks?
Going into uldir with 1 SS, 1 arvhiece and then 1 Laser or double dose, (Same ilvl on the last 2) What do you guys think?
ebon garden
always go with at least 1 Archive or Laser for the Reorigination Array, beyond that just follow the sims
sudden sigil
Oh
ebon garden
or your own preference
sudden sigil
Thought the reor array was different for both arcvhive and laser
ebon garden
That would total for 1500 of your highest secondary, blizzard wouldnt allow that
sudden sigil
Ohh got it