assassination

[raven egret]

Playing Dust as Sub rogue 😄

[balmy condor]

Are you gonna drop kingsbane too since that’s incredible right

[strange python]

oh so drop kingsbane too?

Word

Go for it

something like this?

[balmy condor]

If you believe these clowns go for it

[river hawk]

guys, it is worth to buy the max edition for the days to play before?

[balmy condor]

Yep

[strange python]

lol

[balmy condor]

No

[strange python]

thanks whispyr - i can always count on you

[grand trail]

fucking streamer clows

they always try to trick us

[primal yoke]

its crazy how fast your main target can die when you got major CDs rolling

[river hawk]

why not? bc i wanna know

[strange python]

I'm only doing up to 7's - it's not even that common i can kingsbane anything honestly

[hoary remnant]

you can play w/e in a 7

What you like to play.

Its Beta so w/e

[balmy condor]

Subterfuge 3 points for nothing
Without a trace 1 point for MAYBE 2-3 extra vanish casts in 40 minutes holy fucking poggers

[grand trail]

yeah man i agree

fuck those clowns

all of them

[strange python]

I aint tryina Echoing Reprimand anything though, quite honestly

[balmy condor]

Dslice gets an extra cast in 6 minutes and it’s still worse than ER and CB with all the bugs

[strange python]

Seems complicated

[balmy condor]

Overestimating value by 3x and still worse when compared to bugs

Actually crazy value

[raven egret]

I mean you asked what to drop for double vanish; answer is you don't. From there do whatever you want

[strange python]

It’s really not ur probably overthinking - hit the button and if you land on the combo points use them

Don’t force it

[balmy condor]

Can’t believe I have to fucking argue against the literal worst set of talents assa has seen in years

[strange python]

It happens naturally quite often

I tried it back when it was a Kyrian thing and i kept landing on like 1 or 2 or something, could never get it as sin

[raven egret]

yeah dont worry about landing on them, if you do; use em, if you dont, move on

[strange python]

so i can just spec it, use it on cd and kinda ignore it?

Yeah the timeframe to use them all is so long

[raven egret]

on average you'll hit them naturally anyway

[strange python]

It’ll happen

Eventually

gotcha

[dawn kelp]

Just dropping a prayer that sin is played over sub on prog

[balmy condor]

Like actually fully cooked that I’m not fighting against tiny toxic blade or twist the knife or doomblade or master assassin or cold blood or alacrity

I’m having to argue

Against without a trace

Absolute fever dream

[strange python]

love dat utility though

i can vanish once for dps, and save one to live

[normal mist]

damn

almost a good choice

[raven egret]

But Whispyr, CoLD BLooD LooKS REALly GOoD AND Fun!

[strange python]

Cold blood is better than without a trace still

[hoary remnant]

I wish whispyr would say that if kush or other streamers are in chat^^

[balmy condor]

I fucking did

Multiple times

Kush was here while I was bitching about how shit it was

[raven egret]

thats not exactly how it works though, once you use both you still down to a 2m cd, you wont get much faster vanish over the course of a M+

[strange python]

I mean sometimes I vanish when Garrote is on CD anyway 🤣

so this gives me an extra shot at it

Ayo didn’t you say whispyr is gatekeeping sims, this thing adds to whispyrs villain arc

He’s just gaslighting us

Without a trace is bis

He’s just trying to make us loose io

[balmy condor]

It’s even more hilarious cause some of the people taking without a trace now are the same bozos that dropped iron wire entirely for season 3 and 4 to get an extra 1.5% dps

Those same people run without a trace now for -5%

Because oh my god the utility

Get fucking real

[strange python]

I am real ong fr

[grand trail]

do you think more people would run ER if it wasntbugged?

i think yes

[strange python]

Probably not

[balmy condor]

I’d hope so or else rogue community is doomed

[strange python]

It’s small on details

So it’s bad

If good rogues can do 20 with proper talents, i can at least do 16's with a little botch here and there...i'm good wtih it.

[grand trail]

but since CB is wortless and ER feel like dps loss

yeah

[normal mist]

the usuals are alright, the problem is usually the non usuals LOL

[spice surge]

CB is better than without a trace though

[grand trail]

on paper sure

[spice surge]

On paper, on logs and ingame

Sure

[strange python]

What does on paper mean

i guess mathematically

[raven egret]

Some old people stuff dont worry about it

[balmy condor]

Sims are wrong when they disagree with my world view

[strange python]

Just feelycraft the whole tree then if sims are just on paper good

[balmy condor]

Yeh can’t trust sims at all

[spice surge]

Like how are there this many people probagating for something you could spend 2 seconds to think about and realize how bad it is

[balmy condor]

Hope the maxroll guide doesn’t copy paste the sim opener

We’ll see I guess

[strange python]

[spice surge]

Is 1-2 vanishes over a key worth more than 2 lethality points?

Disregard cb or er

Just straightup only lethality

Its not

[grand trail]

its hard to argue with people who dont play keys in general

[strange python]

I like how xerwo is doing dmg controls basically by himself on the maxroll thing

Problem is in keys there are so many more variables

[spice surge]

.

So logs should show there being 10 more casts from vanish then?

And not them casting it on cd with deathmark

right

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

Oh no i just mean freedom to kinda pick something "1.8% lower" in sims and still perform well

[raven egret]

Variables dont make 2 vanish stacks do anything better XD

[strange python]

But it feels good

[raven egret]

.. how? you use both stacks then you STILL on a 2m CD that you use every DM

thats it, gg

[spice spire]

He pulled out the emote

[raven egret]

moving on

[spice spire]

I know it’s vanish time

[spice surge]

Yep i have never played a key in my life

[strange python]

Careful don’t lol him

[spice surge]

How many titles do you have?

[grand trail]

why you attackinhg me tho

im, not clown streamer

[strange python]

Because you are attacking people with that too

Every fucking time man

You drop some shit

ok i'm gonna use my second charge of vanish and disappear for a bit 😉

And then ur asking why people lol you

Or attack you

It’s getting stale

[balmy condor]

Cause you’re incapable of hearing any argument that would dare go against something kush plays you got his cock so far down your throat I’m surprised you’re able to read messages with the tears in your eyes man

[grand trail]

xdd

[dense cloud]

holy fucking cook

am i in a restaurant?

[balmy condor]

Math says it’s bad so then the sims aren’t accurate

Logs show it’s not worth a damn but then it’s not about the logs it’s about “the control”

But then we’re casting on cooldown and holding for bosses just like we did with one charge

So what’s the fucking argument

You don’t trust sims, you refuse to listen to logs, and the best argument I’ve heard someone come up with is “it feels better I like being able to spread bleeds”

If that’s the argument

Then fine

You win

It does feel good to have more vanishes

And the game is supposed to be fun

If you’re having fun you’re winning

But don’t pretend and gaslight people like the talent is worth a shit

Cause that’s objectively wrong

[north granite]

I just pmay double vanish to bug abuse

Like a beast

[balmy condor]

Is the bug even still around

[north granite]

Didn't play in a few days not shore

[balmy condor]

The precious 2% bug

[strange python]

It’s fixed afaik

[balmy condor]

Yeah I thought it got fixed yesterday

[balmy condor]

If the bug is fixed, would you play double vanish

[hoary remnant]

Imo you should delete that message. I think this is not the Discord we want or?

[balmy condor]

Bite me

[haughty flicker]

[balmy condor]

The discord I want is where the community can have a decent, logical discussion about the class

Sapp makes that impossible

[hearty reef]

Restealths

[hoary remnant]

I think insulting someone is not the right way. Never is imo. We are all grown ups here.

[balmy condor]

And that’s a fair take

[stable coral]

Are we a super sensitive discord? Nah man. I think we are humans talking

[balmy condor]

But I’m not going back on what I said

[hoary remnant]

Also Whispyr is not some random here he is pretty much one of the owners of this discord.

Sap didnt insult him he just had a different opinion.

[balmy condor]

Sapp fundamentally does not have opinions

[strange python]

Nahhh come on he’s actively looking for it

[balmy condor]

That’s his core personality

[strange python]

He does it all the time too

It’s really annoying at times idk

And the aftermath is always „I got loled or this guy attacked me“

[hoary remnant]

That maybe ignore him instead of going full ham. Next in line was some mum "jokes"

[strange python]

Like bruh

[raven egret]

I'd love a mum joke

[balmy condor]

I’ll keep that in mind

But I still stand by what I said

[north granite]

Probably not but i do think simc doesn't consider it's value in a real scenario unless simc is really smart

If er worked it would be nice tho...

[balmy condor]

What do you think simc is missing from the evaluation

[hoary remnant]

Fine but just my opinion as a "shadow" owner of the discord I would just try to educate people and if they dont want to be leave it be. Everything correct is pinned anyways for everyone to see.

[balmy condor]

Like what situation do you think it brings that could be modeled better

[north granite]

That it lets you hold your vanish for more optimal scenarios which can be quite impactful over just sending it on CD to not lose uses.

[balmy condor]

Apparently not everything correct is pinned though because I gotta keep fighting against double vanish

[north granite]

Hard to gauge in a sim vs a real setting maybe

[strange python]

My question is how many extra uses of vanish are you getting kush?

Out of curiosity

[north granite]

It's not only about the extra uses as I mentioned.

[strange python]

Ah I misread

[silk bane]

the way ive seen it used is lets say you have packs that last 1 minute each. and you have 4 packs before each boss.
u can vanish first pack, 2nd pack, third pack, no vanish 4th pack, boss, then u have 2 vanishes up again after boss, and can repeat. so it not like it actually gives you more vanishes. it doesnt. but it lets you skip the vanishes on boss without losing casts on packs

[strange python]

I get it

[silk bane]

not sure how impactful it is tbh

havent done a single sin key on beta to know if it even matters

[subtle tundra]

Once assa won't do overturned damage you'll scripe the barrel for that 1% dps

[balmy condor]

Sims do have a look-ahead for pulls to hold vanish better, I didn’t really find much on a first look but can definitely dig deeper into it. It’s entirely possible within simc to model that

[balmy condor]

Skipping vanish on boss gets tricky though

Cause now we’re in the business of how much single target damage is appropriate to lose

[silk bane]

yeah exactly. i have no idea if its actually worth it.

[north granite]

Yea I haven't the slighest clue how smart the robot is tbh

[balmy condor]

We’re on the heels of a season where every assa rogue played purely for single target

[north granite]

It's just something that I feel is hard to implement without fucking shit up

[balmy condor]

So I’m a bit hesitant to go “oh yeah just don’t vanish bosses GG GAINS HAVE BEEN FOUND”

[silk bane]

its very smart. if you want you can map an entire dungeon + the pulls you would do and optimize around that. we dont do that because you would then be overfitting for every single key and pull type and it doesnt really serve a general audience anymore

[hoary remnant]

Wouldnt it be worth it to try for the vanish stuff? 😄

[silk bane]

no

[heady yarrow]

Does dslice take into account the fat bear tank named Furman that constantly backpedals and chains the entire dungeon?

[silk bane]

becuase hten it changes from dungeon to dungeon, route to route, key level to key level

[balmy condor]

Statistical overfit is a huge problem with dungeonroute models

[silk bane]

^

its very easy to overfit any psychotic thing to anything

it doesnt mean its actually a useful signal

[raven egret]

yeah, try for that like 1 or 2 extra vanish uses. Am sure itll matter! 😄

also which is it; 'Yea I haven't the slighest clue how smart the robot is tbh' VS 'I feel is hard to implement without fucking shit up'

[balmy condor]

I mean the shifting to a better timing is definitely a reason why it could be better

It’s just a long shot

You would have to be able to scrape an insane amount of extra value out of each vanish cast that you wouldn’t get normally

Which you could again compare to lost casts

[north granite]

Just wait for the double vanish vicious venoms buddy for the insane ambush value

[silk bane]

yeah, this is what I mean. like the idea is 2 things in keys. 1) overall time. if youre saving 1 minute overall in the key because you have extra vanishes on all the packs int he dungeon, but the dps loss on bosses means youre losing 1:15 time, then its not worth it at all. or vice versa then would be worth it. 2) does killing that specific pack matter more? like is this the hardest part of the key and u need to get out of it asap? same applies to bosses. does this boss burn through all your defensives by x timer then u die and its cruicial it dies before that? does skipping vanishes cause you to not meet the timer? its stuff like that, but i honestly dont know the answer to these. and my guess is, the damage you lose from bosses lasting longer, isnt worth how much youre speeding up packs by

[north granite]

Can't fight logic

[balmy condor]

Cause assuming you’re vanishing the important packs, you’re only going to be gaining the difference between the low quality packs you got on cooldown and the high quality pack you would’ve gotten

[balmy condor]

You’re so real for that

Ambush buff when

[silk bane]

okay but hear me out

[balmy condor]

Having to tell the sim to AVOID casting ambush from stealth

Is actually so cringe

[strange python]

So basically a lot of extra variables

[silk bane]

VV + deathstalker giving you 50% mut damage

going brrrrrrrrr

in aoe

with spatter

im the fucking chef

[balmy condor]

💀

[subtle tundra]

I wonder how the non kb builds are doing now, hope they have a nice life

[void mesa]

Wait, are we back to not ambushing in stealth???

How long was I gone for ohno

[balmy condor]

I mean there’s obviously an insane amount of variables, but you can reasonably filter out a lot of unimportant ones

[strange python]

I mean when comparing something that sims 1.6% lower - there are just more variables that are more important

[raven egret]

we never do? Outside of Deathstalker opening to apply mark now cause we have to

[balmy condor]

What’s simming 1.6% lower

[strange python]

It's used as an example.

[balmy condor]

Sure

[strange python]

A low number

[balmy condor]

But at what point does it matter

[strange python]

I dunno

[balmy condor]

Like dropping kingsbane is 8% single target

That’s significant right

[strange python]

Not gonna get into that lol

Cause i can't argue semantics with you at all

[balmy condor]

But you’re the one that brought up the argument

[raven egret]

I mean you were the one asking him to get into a 1.6% random whatever

[strange python]

What argument - that kingsbane and some 8% number ?

No - i said "there's more variables that matter more than something that may sim 1.6% lower"

[void mesa]

(As an aside, 8% for KB in ST is waaaay less than I expected ;o)

[strange python]

You brought up the strawman stuff

[balmy condor]

It’s not semantics it’s just that some variables don’t matter and some do

[silk bane]

okay but whispyr, the real question is, now that we have high resolution Icons, when are we getting tags?

[strange python]

You used the word significant

That's semantics

You're argumentative today bro

You're putting words in my mouth

[clever sapphire]

im not giving up my bonespike

[raven egret]

True and real. At least our icons are BiS

[silk bane]

legit

rogues ones are legit my fav

by far

[strange python]

You'll argue with anyone, verbally assualt them...for basically no reason....it's honestly disgusting how you act

[balmy condor]

I didn’t say anything about what you’ve mentioned so far other than the fact that you brought up the argument

I’m agreeing with you even

When things are close there’s other things that are important

That’s why we take iron wire in every m+ build

Even though it’s a loss

[final star]

zerocool would drop iron wire

and that's fact

[silk bane]

the thing is, what dslice does right now (the simulation mode) is exactly what i described. it just looks at a profile, which includes bosses, packs of different sizes of mobs and healths with random variations added to all of it, and says okay, this ones the best.

[final star]

then proceed to call his entire group pigs

[silk bane]

so unless youre over fitting for one specific scenario, Dslice should eb representative

[strange python]

Like someone mentioned - the 8% ST loss - if it's picked up in other places that matter more to that key - or how that dungeon is being pulled...and the 8% ST loss isn't going to cause you to fail the timer, but the more consistent AOE is going to cause you to make the timer - then it's worth it. There are many variables.

[balmy condor]

Okay so to you that 8% loss can be overcome

In a hypothetical

I don’t think it ever could

[strange python]

It might depend on key level and mob health and boss health and defensives available and consistent vs burst (having a prio target) etc

[final star]

Just gotta come to terms with the fact that you can never really truly model a key accurately and do the best you can to optimise, which is what is done

[stable coral]

Significant means >5% are we talking about <5% dmg for being able to completely silence packs? Then this discussion ist utterly worthless

[balmy condor]

I think an 8% loss in single target is not surmountable given how dungeons are designed in the last 5 years

So I write it off

[strange python]

so 4.9% isn't significant, but 5.1% is? Just wanna be clear.

[balmy condor]

It’s fun to think about and come up with ways to maybe play it

[raven egret]

All of this because of a 'What do I drop for double Vanish' --> nothing - and that wasn't an acceptable answer

[balmy condor]

But I’m not going to pretend that it’s a loss worth taking for anyone

[stable coral]

Yep make up some arbitrarily situation to completely devalue my point

[balmy condor]

That’s the same thing regarding without a trace for me

[strange python]

You're the one that tried to mathematically define it.

[balmy condor]

Without a trace provides insanely ethereal and wishy-washy gains that are both insanely finnicky, and very difficult to actually realize

[strange python]

Significant just isn't easily definable in this context (to me)

[clever sapphire]

is this what all the fuss is about? too many messages that i dont wanna bother reading

[balmy condor]

I see without a trace be -5% and that’s not surmountable

[raven egret]

This is how it began, the darkness, pain and suffering of the world

[grand trail]

this is only comment which matter xdd

[stable coral]

Talking about grading a studies value, yes. 0.2 make the difference. Regarding a heavily situational GAME nah man depends on the situation

[silk bane]

its hard to specifically say what is significant. I think whispyrs point here is that there were people taht skip iron wire in S3/S4 (probably the most OP utility node in the game for keys), for a 1.5% dps gain. And the same people are arguing that the reason they want double vanish knowing that its a dps loss is for the utility etc. which doesnt make sense given their historic actions. This kinda tilted whispyr into oblivion and this conversation has happened so often that its just becming a triggering thing in #assassination

[stable coral]

Being able to silence packs also enable other dps to push harder and I think you guys don’t see that

It’s about ease of play

[haughty flicker]

im not sure whispyr will survive the expansion at this rate

[balmy condor]

I can make my own arguments but thanks I guess

[silk bane]

can i make a joke?

[royal lantern]

yes, because people always tell themself how utility is this GIGA IMPORTANT THING OMG and the second the dmg is lower it suddenly doesnt matter anymore

Like whisp said, we had people drop Iron Wire (aka the silence) for some shity 0,something% increase because "dmg is all that matters!!" and now they drop 5%+ because "dmg doesnt matter, i NEED the aoe silence!!!!!!!!!"

like

what is it now

[strange python]

Right - agree, that's my point.

[grand trail]

sure i dont think it could be worse today for me

[balmy condor]

So then we do agree

[strange python]

It's can't just be mathematically defined for all possible situations

[royal lantern]

and why is NOW the aoe silence suddenly this giga important thing when assa had silences for literally years, and was always ignored lol

[strange python]

yeah we agree i suppose (somewhat)

I value fun though, and I don't push titles

Although while having that fun, i wanna do the best i can

[void mesa]

VDH nerfs is my tinfoil hat theory

[strange python]

I mean for quite a while DH's kinda carried that

The conversation of fun is a different one, if ur tryna have fun this whole conversation makes no sense because in the end if it feels fun to you and that’s what you care about most go for it no questions asked

just saying 😄

[clever sapphire]

so the daily dose of dumb arguing where at the end noone is gonna agree or both sides are gonna realise that they were on the same side the whole time

[balmy condor]

That’s indeed what I said 30 minutes ago

[strange python]

The fun argument is actually a good one compared to the others lol

[raven egret]

I mean, 2 vanish charge dont do what its being claimed they do XD

[royal lantern]

allright, and what about the 7+ years before that?

[strange python]

I mean fun is important - except for the rare few that actually make a living playing this game, right?

Depends on your definition of fun

[stable coral]

Man I don’t know that, I’m trying to figure out the class as of right now. I’m saying that losing dps over an overall (maybe) bigger group dps is the bigger gain

[strange python]

Fun to me is being optimal and pushing myself

Sometimes at the cost of gameplay/flow

[raven egret]

No, I mean that unless you actively misuse vanish through a key, having 2 stacks of it wont be different thant a single

[silk bane]

my paint skills are not great. dont take it personally its just a meme

[subtle tundra]

now just imagine if nonkb build was good

[royal lantern]

what group dps

that you have 1(!!!!!!!) more vanish trought out a 40min dungeon to silence some stuff once?

how is that a group gain lol

[strange python]

I mean i think non-kb build should be tuned to be just as viable.

[raven egret]

Second time you bring that up, who you trying to trigger

[subtle tundra]

noone
its just my obsession

maybe whispyr giving me more news but nothing deeper

[clever sapphire]

aight im gonna hit you where it may hurt. Unless you are doing the highest keys, your own dps is gonna carry the key because your group is most likely gonna suck ass so bad that they would miss a mountain even if you put it in front of them

[subtle tundra]

or him telling me im a loser idk

both are fine

[grand trail]

why it have my old pic ^^ you make it some time ago than

[strange python]

Lmfao he had it ready

[final star]

ur cooked

[strange python]

Cooked up

[silk bane]

oh yeah i had your old pfp somewhere just copy pasted it

[grand trail]

😛

[stable coral]

Am I getting it wrong? Vanish is on a 2 min cd. If you have 2 charges, how are you gonna get only 1 extra if we have vanish every minute? Am I being stupid?

[strange python]

They don't recharge concurrently

[silk bane]

thew ne pfp is actualy kinda cool

i like it

[grand trail]

yeah you can guess who make it

[subtle tundra]

AI

[strange python]

Very few things in the game actually do recharge concurrently.

[silk bane]

no idea

[void mesa]

It lets you have up to 2 charges, but it only charges 1 at a time anyways. With "perfect" play of sending it on cd, its 1 more cast, that's it

[grand trail]

chatgpt my first experince with it

[silk bane]

lmfao no shot

thats sick

[raven egret]

Which I mean, even without perfect play, you might get 1 or 2 here and there extra, at times where you don't need em most of the time anyway

[royal lantern]

????????

mate, its a 2nd charge, not a 2nd vanish

you start the key with 2 charges vanish, and then its 2min for each charge

and you will use vanish every 2min anyway cus its a CD

the talent is literally "you gain a single additonal vanish use" for 4 talent points lol

[clever sapphire]

as soon as you have both on cooldown you are only charging one vanish, so at that point you are not getting the value of 2nd vanish, as long as you dont go a whole 2 minutes without using vanish

[raven egret]

on top of having to pick Soothing and Subterfuge, its just a dead ass talent

[grand trail]

told him to make me profile picture that i like cappucino and my name is Sap ability from world of warcraft

idk why it put horde sign into it tho

[silk bane]

lets see what i can get it to make

[silk bane]

probably becsause of the world of warcraft prior

[upbeat sun]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[grand trail]

if you dont pay for service it will make like one pic and put you on CD

[stable coral]

@clever sapphire you guys are right, I was being super stupid. I completely missed that fact

[royal lantern]

trust me

[raven egret]

[royal lantern]

thats the point SO many people miss

like, its incredible how many miss that

and why everything about the 2nd vanish is so stupid

and why taking it is really fucking stupid

[void mesa]

Its easy to get wrong when you're not used to charge system in WoW, and we tend to read it and want to make it work better than it does

[clever sapphire]

i mean im pretty sure almost everyone missed that point because its just dumb to assume why it would be such a shitty talent

[final star]

1 extra use cos no cdr on vanish

[clever sapphire]

and we just try to assume blizzard didnt do the dumb

[final star]

also, you'll always gonna use a vanish with DM anyway

useless stinky talent

[raven egret]

Hey I CHOOSE to believe that Crimson Tempest will do ALL my damage in all keys!

[royal lantern]

like, if the talent would be "vanish has 1min CD now"

or "you get 2 charges vanish every 2min"

then it would be complettely different

[stable coral]

Yeah now I know why you hated that talented in our earlier q&a

[royal lantern]

cus then it would actually double your vanish usage

[void mesa]

Made cope my guy, the real key spell is FoK, everyone knows it

[raven egret]

Oh you didn't.... flying dagger stonks?

[stable coral]

I actually was thinking it was

[void mesa]

Flying Daggers >>> KB ofc

[silk bane]

this is kinad what it made for me after some optimizations

[clever sapphire]

where is the cappucino

[royal lantern]

ah yes, 9 fingers

AI garbage

[grand trail]

here

[clever sapphire]

9?

[grand trail]

its kinda scary what this fucking chat AI can do

[haughty flicker]

there are 10 there

lmao

[silk bane]

her left thumb is hidden behind blade smh

[grand trail]

imagine if i was in school still when this was going on

[void mesa]

The one time AI gets it right come on

[royal lantern]

then wanna talk about the belt buckle that vanish into nothing?

[clever sapphire]

i mean sure her left point finger looks like it got cut in half, but still

[silk bane]

yeah idk man she put her outfit on in a hurry

forgot about that one

[clever sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/boy-pose-modeling-fashion-gif-5204972

[silk bane]

lmfao

[void mesa]

It aint perfect, but it only took a few minutes

[balmy condor]

I wish so bad that it would man I want to play it

Bleeds are too weak give me the big vanish

[silk bane]

youd fail everything. this thing has 0 logic, just makes shit up

[strange python]

That is just really sick

[raven egret]

Thats hot

[silk bane]

bros out here goonin

https://tenor.com/view/never-goon-nevergoon-never-goon-orange-cat-gif-17686207109324907182

[hearty reef]

"whats that on your helmet soldier?"

"a no fap sticker, sir"

[runic hinge]

If we had the thing that made all our bleeds tick instant on vanish would be play it?

[balmy condor]

Yes

In a heartbeat

[royal lantern]

that talent would be actually so cool

[balmy condor]

Would be insanely busted

[royal lantern]

why is it torghast only

[balmy condor]

The nerfs needed to make that torg power not bonkers would ridiculous

[runic hinge]

I’m gonna go do torghast now just to have fun

[haughty flicker]

double vanish with that in opener

[balmy condor]

Sudden demise is about as close as its ever gonna get

[haughty flicker]

jesus

[final star]

you know we're done bad when fucking torghast powers are more appealing than hero talents

[clever sapphire]

torghast is fun

[final star]

stop

[pliant remnant]

Torghast was goated

[haughty flicker]

torghast couldve been fun

[royal lantern]

mate, fucking Slice&Dice is more appealing than our hero talents, thats how shit they are

[silk bane]

oh i know one like that! it wasnt tied to vanish and it wasnt instant but it made all your bleeds bleed out 50% faster! hmmmm what was it, whwat was it?... was it strong? did it get 400% nerf?

[final star]

what timeline is this

[clever sapphire]

wat, i started the game where the shitty forced torghast was already gone

[raven egret]

Harsh, but truth

[clever sapphire]

so i did it for the fun

[royal lantern]

and im the #1 SnD hater

[stable coral]

Fuck snd

[clever sapphire]

nah, a real snd hater would refuse to press it

you cant be number one

[stable coral]

It’s only in the game cause it has been since vanilla

Stupid ass dogshit button

[final star]

it was added back in SL

[stable coral]

Unworthy to exist

[void mesa]

Can we... bring back huh... Exsanguinate? 😄

(is a joke, dont do it)

[raven egret]

Ok ok, I feel ya, we're in SND hate territory now, cool, cool. We feeling turning it into a passive? We feeling just removing it? How we feeling

[midnight reef]

So would Sin be easier to play on raid bosses then dungeons?

[stable coral]

Whoever thought “hey let’s fuck up rogues with some stupid ass worthless button” will suffer in hellfire eternally

[tall jay]

Let’s
Go back
To mop talents please

[clever sapphire]

i would say sin in raid is probably one of the easier specs

sin in dungeons is probably one of the harder specs

[midnight reef]

Ok ty thats all i needed 🙂

[stable coral]

Can’t express how mad I am about snd

[midnight reef]

Thats what i'll aim for for that character

[tall jay]

Or back to lich king lol

[hearty reef]

ngl it was fun melting bozos in pvp with old DM + exsang

[stable coral]

They even made it worthless a lot more by needing you to press it on 1st opener and then forget it. Useless piece of shit

Remove it already

[clever sapphire]

boiled up hate comin out

[floral vale]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[stable coral]

And it felt so good

[royal lantern]

[raven egret]

It's ok let it all out, it's a (relatively not really) safe space to vent

I don't really see the point of SND now tbh, the speed is nice but like, the usage of it... not really

[clever sapphire]

snd is probably pretty safe to hate on

[silk bane]

why does it bother u so much if you jut press it once smoothly as sin and never think about it again?

[clever sapphire]

what if we got what sub rogue has, and we just got 10 sec of snd with ambush

[royal lantern]

all specs only cast it once now

[silk bane]

that was good, can sub please get t hat one back?

[haughty flicker]

snd is a pointless button but i feel like there are better things to focus our hatred on

[clever sapphire]

wait thats gone?

[silk bane]

yes

they made cttc baseline for all 3

[haughty flicker]

everyone has cttc

[clever sapphire]

and what did you get in replacement?

[royal lantern]

tbf, my problem is

why does it even exist at that point when it IS a thing you only press once lol

like idk, its just weird

[haughty flicker]

and nothing else

[silk bane]

now sub is getting fucked on the opener

[silk bane]

nothing, they just removed that part from premeditationo

[clever sapphire]

[stable coral]

Because then again you might aswell completely remove it. It’s a maintenance buff that further fucks button bloat

[silk bane]

so now we have 2 copies of TFD in spec tree

[royal lantern]

its rogue, what did you expect lol

[clever sapphire]

i mean i kinda expected like, "your sectec now does 5% more dmg after shadowstep"

[silk bane]

its probably because this is an rpg game, and some players (specially old school ones/ casuals) care about some of the old abilities they had back in the day and have bonds with them. and it existing doesnt hurt you. there are times also where you need to think about it and reapply it strategicsally. for example, last night on tindral, i had to reapply it after every flight in intermission

[clever sapphire]

you know, some really unreasonable and dumb talent that would affect your rotation

[silk bane]

no that requires them making a new talent

we just water down existing talents here

no new talent making stuff

[royal lantern]

you mean like our CttC replacment? aka "envenom inside envenom does 10% more dmg" which is so low tuned that we dont even take it on fatebound?

[stable coral]

AFAIK no one likes it, non one want it. It’s annoying, it’s free of use and just another button to press in a super button bloated class

[raven egret]

I mean I still feel empty inside when I have to press SND, no joy, no fun, just... nothing

[clever sapphire]

wdym, just change the text and picture and just say that its bugged for the whole of TWW, then remove it in 12.0

[stable coral]

THIS

[silk bane]

idk, cant agree or disagree with you. it existing, is the same reason as you manually reapply your poisons every hour basically

[royal lantern]

honestly

im just confused rn what happend there that you had to use it on tindral lol, i never had that

[haughty flicker]

well thats also outdated and pointless design

so thats not a very good sign

[stable coral]

Yeah that’s just fucking annoying aswell

[silk bane]

oh my snd would just time out

and had to reapply it when i landed

[royal lantern]

and thats not "strategiscally" mate, lets not call it that lol, its re-applying more autoattack speed lol

[clever sapphire]

wait we dont take it on fatebound? what the flippity flop

[silk bane]

which is important for both sin and sub

[royal lantern]

it takes MA over that talent

[clever sapphire]

MA

[royal lantern]

thats how undertuned it is

[clever sapphire]

had to check if im awake

that you really said ma

[stable coral]

But I get the poisons theme wise

[royal lantern]

check the pins mate

im not joking

[clever sapphire]

ye i only checked deathstalker ngl

[silk bane]

and like for anyone who actually wants a smart response from someone smart about snd/poisons here u go

[strange python]

I do get your argument and I feel like it’s valid that people want it for the sake of it being part of the class forever

[clever sapphire]

i didnt think fatebound changed anything since its just flip a coin and call it a day

[midnight reef]

addons are buggin out again

[strange python]

But just make it a cd as long as the duration is and make it cost no cps at this point

[midnight reef]

Get zero credit for killing the bosses in the zones for prepatch event

[strange python]

If you really wanna keep it for immersion

[midnight reef]

unless you turn off addons

[silk bane]

and every spec gettin cttc is exactly in tha tpost too, he wanted to keep the "good parts" of it, but not habe to reapply it every 30 seconds

[royal lantern]

i mean, just because a dev says it doesnt mean that we have to agree, espacially when its a ability that is so universally hated

Like, "remove SnD" is the 1 thing you ALWAYS read about anything rogue related

its not a RH bubble thing

its a gamewide thing

[stable coral]

But that does not eliminate the fact that it’s annoying and not fun doesn’t it?

[silk bane]

I personally dont disagree with him, and dont care about snd being removed or not.

I do care that sub is now clunkier because of their decision to give all specs cttc

[raven egret]

I mean I never really agreed with him there, I been playing since 2004 too, and while it was fun back then, now its just empty of feelings at best, annoying at worst

[silk bane]

premed was a qol of talent, it saved you precious combo points, made your opener and CDS smoother

[raven egret]

re-applying poison is a thing you have to do, doesn't make me feel immerse at all anymore

[silk bane]

now my opener without sepsis/subterfuge is 6 seconds of spamming backstab

that has to be a joke

[silk bane]

im assuming for some it does

but again, its not for everyone

[royal lantern]

insert the 20seconds of assa just going "Mut mut envenom", like its fucking WotLK gameplay

[silk bane]

nothing is

[grand trail]

hopefully we dont play that in single target

[royal lantern]

shit is fucked lol

[silk bane]

you reapply garrote and rupture

db sub litearlly has a full 1 minute of going backstab backst backstab backstab evis

for a full fucking minute

cuz u cant dance

cuz not enoguh cps to farm it back

[stable coral]

Wotlk gameplay was better then it is now

[royal lantern]

oh shut up

[silk bane]

[royal lantern]

it wasnt

[stable coral]

It’s was, change my mind

[clever sapphire]

so um ye i was thinking about giving a look at sub rogue for tww, my interest is gone

[silk bane]

thats only db build

[strange python]

Yeah and combat was better than outlaw and survival should be ranged

[silk bane]

its very clunky and awful

[strange python]

Can’t hear it no more

[silk bane]

it litearlly has the worst opener in the game anymore

[clever sapphire]

im not touching dust

[silk bane]

and has the worst cd "feeling" in the game too probably

[hoary remnant]

ngl posions are fine. I really dont think they are a bad thing. SnD is w/e at this point it serves as a ramp in opener thats it.

[stable coral]

Man fuck Outlaw, be honest

[silk bane]

i have fo wait for fucking 6-8n seconds to farm back my sectech in the middle of my cds

[dense cloud]

quick q, boon on m+ or the ashes better

[silk bane]

AH YES IM IN CDS, WOOPS GOTTA FARM BACK MY CDS IN CDS

[clever sapphire]

ashes

[clever sapphire]

you always want ashes as assa

[royal lantern]

sub needs jesus for like, 10years now

[silk bane]

dust feels good

because it solves all 3 of these problems for sub

cds feel fast paced, strong, and exciting

youre not sending naked sods because you are starved on cps

[clever sapphire]

okay so what now, can you decide?

[silk bane]

have subterfuge

so opener feels "fine"

[raven egret]

oh god no, dust has to be nuked and its ashes sent into the Sun

[clever sapphire]

you are giving me mixed signals

[silk bane]

Dust feels good for the wrong reasons

it doesnt feel good because woohoo i pushed my cds ahead by 30 seconds (the point of dust)

it feels good because it solves core underlying problems of the spec

as a by product of

it existing

[royal lantern]

YES

like, dust is a bad talent that should not exists

but it solves some of the shit on it

[silk bane]

yea

[royal lantern]

solving clunky shit with clunky shit is peak sub fantasy at this point

like, it cant have a smooth flow, it needs 6 different workarounds where 3 feel horrible

[dense cloud]

use the trink with full cds for good value?

[royal lantern]

yes

[silk bane]

its just the result of spec getting imo the most significant reowrk in terms of playstyle (out of the 3 rogue specs in 10.2) with the least amount of thought and time put into how these changes impact existing talents

[dense cloud]

oka

[royal lantern]

macro ashes with DM

[silk bane]

its also what i told realz.

[clever sapphire]

macro it to deathmark, forget about it

[stable coral]

Don’t forget about the 56 cooldowns

[steep helm]

Guys, i played with a blood elf this last season, is worth to create a night elf because the racial? it can be used to use stealth skills so its a min max?

[royal lantern]

no

racials are a meme

[clever sapphire]

you cant always restealth and you can never restealth in boss fights, so while yes technically it is better than blood elf it wont always work

[potent dagger]

It is bugged half of the time

[clever sapphire]

nelf stealth in dungeons is the only one i would argue against

[silk bane]

say that to the dude getting nuked by the orbs in 3rd boss falls in p3 cuz he couldnt meld it bud

[hoary remnant]

If you play dungeons nelf last 2 seasons was really good. In the end it really doesn't matter what you play.

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/dwarf-chad-chad-dwarf-gif-27635881

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/cow-wig-gif-19175049

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/elves-gif-24943874

[dense cloud]

getting better with assa tho

[haughty flicker]

(i dont play dwarf)

(i play elves)

[steep helm]

i played a lot of mythics, got 3k + i.o, thinking about min max, probably the best is the dwarf but i dont like them

[haughty flicker]

(and a panda)

[clever sapphire]

undead ftw

[dense cloud]

also, anyone knows how the fuck do i remove the show pet dmg separetaly?

[potent dagger]

I play void elf and i am fine with it ^^

[subtle tundra]

theres 20 million things you can do to get better, swapping races is probably in the last 100k

[dense cloud]

its really fucking annoyinh

[steep helm]

i will agree with you

i saw a blood elf with 3.800 i.o on warcraftlogs

[clever sapphire]

you can get rank 1 as a panda

[haughty flicker]

give me back my aoe silence

[raven egret]

Bra, I have 2, TWO!!! charges of Hearthstone, and their CD is reduced by 5m!!!

Clearly I have best race

[clever sapphire]

racials are just qol

[haughty flicker]

ok hearthstone charges goes hard though

[potent dagger]

Go cow and get an aoe "stun"

[haughty flicker]

if you're farming old stuff

[haughty flicker]

i would rather quit the game forever than play any variant of tauren

[hoary remnant]

If you dont got for title its w/e

[clever sapphire]

farm old stuff on a mage, now you can port everywhere

problem solved

[royal lantern]

i had some as vulpera

[subtle tundra]

ive been a complete noob, done weeklies only, pushed world first keys all as a troll on both assa and sub

[haughty flicker]

ngl mage isnt actually very good for old content

especially if you're farming mobs for whatever reason

rogue/monk pretty op

[royal lantern]

mage propaganda is going strong again, i see

[clever sapphire]

wait what, mage is not good in something?

time to post on mage discord

[raven egret]

bra, I have so many ways to move around, 2 stacks of heartstones aint doing shit

[clever sapphire]

ye i just wanted to point out a race that people dont talk about often

[haughty flicker]

i wish people talked about vulpera less

[potent dagger]

Be geeky play mechagnome

[raven egret]

Did you see vulpera shaman totems thought? They are the cutest things ever!

[haughty flicker]

totems and camp racial are both pretty cool

[potent dagger]

Man void elves have half cost tmog, Best racial ever !

[royal lantern]

bro

the /sleep

[haughty flicker]

i dont think ive actually seen it

so i'll have to take your word

[royal lantern]

go into character trial

and do it rn

trust me

[earnest remnant]

rats

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/racoon-dumpsterracoon-gif-27182277

[potent dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/rat-cheese-trap-funny-lift-gym-gif-3430408

[raven egret]

you're welcome

[royal lantern]

(and the wake up animation is a Cat looooooooooong stretch)

[plain hawk]

Wish blizz would add more bodytypes for dwarfs, like you could be a skinny dwarf too.

[shy pecan]

Confirmed. Rats

[clever sapphire]

wish blizzard removed dwarfs and gave us murlocs as a playable race

actually you know what, i will offer the whole of evoker race/class as it is and in return i want murlocs as a race

im feeling generous

[royal lantern]

hard bargain

i like the race

BUT that would also mean that augmentation is gone

but devestation is a cool spec

[raven egret]

Real talk

[royal lantern]

[raven egret]

When dracthyrs can be rogues

Who would swap?

[royal lantern]

me in an instant

lol

i said it since day 1

[clever sapphire]

look as long as aug exists, the other 2 dont exist anyways so might as well just remove the whole class

[earnest remnant]

scaled rats

[haughty flicker]

before i said i would swap instantly but ive kind of reconsidered

[plain hawk]

Sneaky Dragon

[haughty flicker]

i would only want to play in visage form

and the visage forms are pretty uncanny valley

[royal lantern]

its so fucking sad lol

like, preservation is such a cool healer

devestation is a ranged dps that feels cool

and then comes aug

and fucks it all up

[haughty flicker]

pres could possibly see play if it does just a fuck ton of healing

but dev is truly fucked

rip bozos

[clever sapphire]

evoker has 3 specs:
youngest child - aug
middle child - dev
oldest child - pres

[royal lantern]

ayo

im a middle child

maybe thats why i like dev lol

[spice spire]

Tryan likes a ranged class

[clever sapphire]

aight im not saying the rest of the explanation then

[spice spire]

NOTED

[royal lantern]

dev is the only ranged dps that feels good, idk man

[spice surge]

Tryan truly low apm pilled

Playing assa and dev

[ocean cape]

any weak aura to grab for poison remember please ? 🙂

[junior aurora]

his hands just cant press the binds fast enough man

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/turtle-friends-funny-dog-slow-gif-12839663573586496519

[spice spire]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[spice spire]

There are some in le’s collection

[ocean cape]

@spice spire thx dude

[spice spire]

You can also just look it up on wago

No worries good luck buddy

[ocean cape]

we have wago section here ?

[spice spire]

Just above

But if you put “poison reminder” in wago it should pull up a few

[wooden radish]

hello

[idle radish]

so how we feelin about double vanish?

[wooden radish]

nvm

[royal lantern]

do you like wasting 4 talent points for absolutely no gain at all?

[spice surge]

You can scroll up a bit and youll see it mentioned

[hard river]

banned for brigading

[runic hinge]

Should be banned for baiting

[raven egret]

How we feeling about acro?

[idle radish]

yellow name begone!

[midnight mist]

!ban @raven egret

[clever sapphire]

double vanish for assa = no acro for outlaw

[wooden radish]

not too bad i think, the grief period is starting to wane

[raven egret]

Hey I was fighting back, defending my property!

[haughty flicker]

acceptance

[earnest remnant]

sorry not long enough reach

[wooden radish]

Zac is still pink

[spice spire]

Bro

[wooden radish]

so i think

[midnight mist]

stealthi stop following me around !

[idle radish]

im ok with it, i like to be in there anyways. im an alpha chad giga chad bro

[wooden radish]

outlaw still has issues

[midnight mist]

stop it !

[spice spire]

This level of hating has to be studied

[royal lantern]

existing?

[earnest remnant]

thats wild coming from the ceo of hating

[clever sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/meseeks-mr-pain-painful-is-existence-meeseeks-and-destroy-gif-15032740

[royal lantern]

quake is on his redemption arc

[wooden radish]

hopefully, but we'll have to see

[spice spire]

Game recognizes game

[wooden radish]

im an ass rogue now

embracing the bleeds

[spice spire]

Hell no. Enjoy an Acroless outlaw nerds lmao

[wooden radish]

such a naughty rotti boy

[earnest remnant]

stay capped and short armed nerds lmao

[wooden radish]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-slap-raccoon-no-gif-11654251

foul mouthed racoon

[idle radish]

@wooden radish hey

[royal lantern]

ngl, i like how the univeral thing that happens when stealthi appears, is people spamming raccon stuff

for ages now

[wooden radish]

i have this GIF favourited

whenever Stealthi bad mouths outlaw

[runic hinge]

Imma go play feral. At least in there they hate on moonkin which is based

[wooden radish]

i insta press this

[raven egret]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-pawing-reaching-kitty-cat-pawing-gif-6542076944129339371

[shy pecan]

I love this new acro

[raven egret]

acroless rogue trying to reach

[royal lantern]

is there a community that hates boomkin more then feral and guardian players?

[earnest remnant]

my guild

[haughty flicker]

https://clips.twitch.tv/ColorfulCuteKeyboardOSsloth-c1jrBiFcA53dV5sa

always relevant

[earnest remnant]

i have that soundclip on a keybind

[burnt rain]

Moonkin is the only spec that I have always had zero interest in trying haha

[royal lantern]

yes, he is our raids boomkin

[idle radish]

so im assuming double vanish is good based on the activity it stirred up here no ? nah but like i cba double vanish no ?

[spice spire]

Are you being real, do you understand the spec, are you trolling, or are you an idiot?

There’s only so many acceptable permutations of this answer

[clever sapphire]

its not double vanish, its 1 extra vanish for a key

maybe 2 if you repeat wipe

[runic hinge]

He’s trolling

[spice spire]

I assume nothing

[clever sapphire]

eh he is yellow

you never know

[spice spire]

If you play right it’s bad

[idle radish]

https://tenor.com/view/chris-martin-and-it-was-all-yellow-coldplay-singing-gif-9881032

[spice spire]

Very bad

[earnest remnant]

personally i think no acro in keys is good

idc what you say

[idle radish]

im down for that

the thing is we have acro still

its in my talent tree

[shy pecan]

More AA damage and movement speed, wdym

[haughty flicker]

i like movespeed

[idle radish]

more movespeed = less time running into melee range

soo maybe its op?

[clever sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/girl-speeding-i-just-want-to-go-fast-barbie-jeep-swag-gif-11061448

[earnest remnant]

i think they should make anti melee mechanics more often

make the swirlies bigger

[clever sapphire]

nono you know whats worse than bigger swirlies?

[earnest remnant]

preferably 9 yards range

[clever sapphire]

smaller hitboxes on massive targets

[shy pecan]

I'll make you bigger

[spice spire]

[earnest remnant]

if they make the anti melee mechs 9 yards

that would be big

it means outlaw cant hit anything and sub can still storm + bp them

its a win win

i should be a dev

ong

[haughty flicker]

i like the way you think

[clever sapphire]

why not an aug 🥁

https://tenor.com/view/see-myself-out-gif-21716927

[earnest remnant]

im not a scalie

[shy pecan]

He's a rat

[runic hinge]

He’s a panda

[keen spruce]

[earnest remnant]

frog

[shy pecan]

Quacktain Frog

[blazing jewel]

Heckin frog

[keen spruce]

[shy pecan]

you missed out on whiskey and food last weekend btw @keen spruce

[keen spruce]

where

[shy pecan]

Multnomah Whiskey Library downtown

[keen spruce]

oh ye they good

i haven't been there in a few years

[shy pecan]

Yeah, I was there with a few friends on Saturday

40% off stuff too because my friend works there

[velvet ridge]

Vein ripper is my fantasy

[floral vale]

Does clear the witness trigger again after darkest night?

[spice surge]

Yes

[floral vale]

nice

need to make a wa for it i guess

Does anyone have an early list of the good trinkets? Kind of looks like both ara-kara trinkets might be good? I'm hoping we have strong dungeon trinkets that would be awesome

[spice surge]

Skardyns grace or transmitter + whatever you want

Theres like 6 options that are like all the same numerically for your second slot

void reaper, crystal, egg, the other egg and some other i dont remember

[floral vale]

that's pog though

means you could viably run double dungeon trinket

[balmy condor]

double dungeon looking bis atm

[floral vale]

dude stop i can't handle news this good

[balmy condor]

skardyn + spyglass

[fading wigeon]

Yessss

Amazing

[cerulean nest]

never getting max level ❤️

[nimble zinc]

Do they have bonus effects or are they just juicy stats?

[tacit charm]

!restealth

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:

• Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
• You can add in some sanguine/rupture value from carnage, but chaining allows for higher uptime and smoother energy overall, eliminating a lot of ramp at the start of a pull
• This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths (chain heavy spiteful weeks are only about -30% on stealths)
• You still have vanish which gives you plenty of options to get your stealth effects
• This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years

[static glacier]

!restealthsmatter

[balmy condor]

idk what that means, theyre trinkets

[static glacier]

[nimble zinc]

Oh sorry I thought those were daggers.

[spice surge]

Worth noting that most trinkets this season are undertuned compared DF trinkets

[nimble zinc]

Figures.

[spice surge]

In terms of how much damage they contribute

[nimble zinc]

Tbh a lot of trinkets in DF Were overpowered.

Cough cough Grieftorch

beacon before it got nerfed

[static glacier]

Beacon was a lot worse than grief tbh

[haughty flicker]

i hated both of them

[static glacier]

Mastery passive vs agi

[strange python]

Grieftorch was a cool Ass trinket for prog tho

All of these new trinkets are kinda lame

Can’t wait for transmitter

Random tasks is awesome

[vast pond]

Fatebound description on wow head sounds like someone RPing as Anton Chigurh

[tidal gyro]

So, is Kingsbane bad now? Is that why it feels like its doing wet noodle dps?

[static glacier]

I’ve heard it’s branch 2.0

[spice surge]

Like the new "beacon" trinket does ~4-5% of your damage instead of 8-9% like beacon did

[nimble zinc]

Grieftorch was fun. Even if they nerfed the dmg it was still fun having everyone else’s deaths reset it

[strange python]

It’s way worse

[spice surge]

Its not bad, its still really good

Just not warping the entire spec around it

[static glacier]

Sounds like skardyn is getting macro’s to deathmark and dark brew blades and I’m forgetting about it

[nimble zinc]

5% seems reasonable for a trinket. When they were doing like 10-15% of our dps I felt like it was too much.

Like this little treasure does more damage than most of my abilities? Okay.

[strange python]

Sin can use both for equal dps afaik (correct me on this)

But sub

Oh man

[static glacier]

Did you play end of BfA by any chance?

[tidal gyro]

On beta, ST, what would you say is a good KB number? I just got 6.32M off it in one rotation. Trying to figure out why my damage feels like garbage comparatively

[strange python]

Transmitter dancing

[static glacier]

Reject dust, embrace dark brew

I don’t even hate dust, I’m just tired of extra mini games

[spice surge]

Exact kb damage numbers is not something you should look at

[spice surge]

Idk having them be numerically weak also makes them less exciting

[strange python]

No thrill of hitting ashes and doing big dam anymore

[spice surge]

I prefer having strong trinkets like ashes or grieftorch

[static glacier]

I had enough hearing tanks and ww among other shitty classes yapping about beacon critting or not critting mid pull

[tidal gyro]

Noted. I just remember in Amid, I was briefly on rogue and hit a HUGE KG, so really trying to figure out where I am going wrong. What is a solid ST number to be looking for between opener into standard rotation at iLvl 613 in your opinion?

[spice surge]

No fucking idea

Balance is changing every week

No point attaching any value to the exact dps number youre doing

[static glacier]

There’s a weak aura that tracks env and shiv uptime for kb

Idk if it’s still working

But that can tell you if you played a KB properly

Results based analysis isn’t it, focus on the process

[tidal gyro]

Touche. Trying to avoid getting benched, and being a burden.

Ill look for the WA tho, thanks Mo

[shy pecan]

You’re not gonna get benched unless you’re doing like tank damage, which is a skill issue. Not a spec one.

[static glacier]

You can’t really control stuff like kb crits or good rng for poison app, though if the kb lower stack cap is already implemented it’s largely gonna be capped most of the time

[tidal gyro]

I was in a Stonevault. I cant figure out what im doing wrong unless im just playing bleed build.

[shy pecan]

We can't say a whole lot about what you did wrong without any logs or anything. And KB damage isn't likely the root of your issues.

[stuck knoll]

^

[tidal gyro]

Fair. I appreciate the insight tho. Wasnt trying to blame KB, just wanted to make sure that it wasnt a crux cooldown, vs just a rotation thing

[stuck knoll]

if it is a KB issue the WA Mo mentioned is really really good for it

[static glacier]

Biggest culprits for overall in a key imo would be CT uptime on relevant number of targets, proper IC gameplay and spatter uptime. Secondary to those is probably when you’re sending CDs

And note I say when, not how

[haughty flicker]

[shy pecan]

I dunno about necessarily needing IC, but yeah, to the rest of those

[static glacier]

If someone is clowning IC dot applications they will lose a decent amount of overall

Scent of blood uptime tanks, energy economy tanks

[shy pecan]

You can still perform without it. Just more of keeping ruptures up for scent uptime

!guides If you haven't played sin before, definitely would suggest checking out that regular guides that Whispyr and the TCs wrote, as well as beta guide that is in the pins

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[quiet flax]

I'm relatively new to assassin. What are the top three mistakes ( in terms of biggest dps loss) that I should be on the look out for in keys or when I look back at my logs? Maintaining fewer than x bleeds, caustic spatter uptime less than y, and not keeping cooldowns on cooldown? No need to give a comprehensive list; just a few starting points for me to diagnose errors or improve.

[strange python]

so assass in a good state atm ?

[bronze pike]

Outlaw channel is a silly place lmao

[bronze pike]

Yes

[strange python]

sweet good in M+ in both lower and higher keys ?

[spice surge]

Le Epic meme

[shy pecan]

Keeping up dots for energy gen in AoE and for Scent of Blood (if talented). Caustic uptime is important as well, but also dependent on your build as the bleed build isn't as reliant on it for damage as say the hybrid one. Should ideally just hit your mut/ambush before it falls off though. But holding CDs too long is easily the biggest issue.

Other mistakes/things I've seen are to spam CT (people don't realize it's a dot application now), not paying attention to their CP, bad positioning and planning resulting in less melee uptime

[wide sand]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[pliant terrace]

so aside from the bugs, assassination is looking very strong going into tww?

[coral garnet]

I have read it is overtuned right now

[pliant terrace]

I saw it got a bunch of buffs today

no idea why since I heard it was overperforming before those buffs

[shy pecan]

The numbers are strong. But could change in a week or two. Still have several weeks of tuning to go.

[pliant terrace]

yeah I wouldn't be surprised if it gets reigned in a bit in the next few tuning passes

but im glad to see its doing good

[turbid mulch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tidal gyro]

We need blindside procs to proc Deathstalkers Mark, correct?

[spice surge]

No

Blindside does not proc deathstalkers mark

As its not from stealth

[past forum]

Ambush from stealth or Darkest Night

[tidal gyro]

Thats... that feels counteractive lmao

[past forum]

Wouldn’t it be bad if Blindside procs applied DSM, cause that would delay you from proccing Darkest Night by reupping your stacks?

[spice surge]

Using another ambush doesnt up your stacks anymore

Like on sub, if you shadowstrike something with 2 stacks it stays at 2

It only applies the stacks if there are none on the target

[past forum]

Oh yeah that’s right, i remember that discourse about the sub version when it was revealed.

[smoky sable]

How do i prevent this from happening? Im new to sin and i feel like most of the time in prolonged aoe packs with chain pulls or in single target i am always so low on energy with tea on cooldown, and it takes too long for energy to regen for me to keep up dots or to use any other abiltiies

[slate crown]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[slate crown]

Assassination is about having moments of downtime where you are not casting things, this is called pooling and it's just part of the spec

[smoky sable]

okay thanks il take a look at it

[normal mist]

With the amount of time we have on envenom buff, pooling actually feels good rn

[spring prawn]

how much % is caustic spatter sposed to do in m+?

[normal mist]

Depends

On a lot of variables

[spring prawn]

how wrong does this look for big pulls on low keys

xD

[normal mist]

Yeah you aren't even activating it

Do you know how it works?

I mean in low keys? Thats a variable yeah

[spring prawn]

i just read it now cuz i was wondering why my dmg is so shit haha, didnt play DF at all

[normal mist]

If you don't have time to spam envenom / setup a proper kb...

Yeah reading does wonders

[weak nebula]

do u know any good guide for beginners?

[normal mist]

Wowhead

Up to date and maintained by whispyr

[weak nebula]

any video?

xD

[normal mist]

Whispyr on youtube

[haughty flicker]

audiobook?

[weak nebula]

xD

[normal mist]

Powerpoint

[earnest remnant]

i should buy an ASMR mic and do Assa rotational videos with it

right in your ear

so you dont forget

[last skiff]

just look any guide and prio multitarget

[gilded oasis]

Yes

[earnest remnant]

fair warning i have a squeeky ass voice

[blazing jewel]

id lose

[gilded oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-and-take-my-money-futurama-fry-take-my-money-money-gif-15195954

[blazing jewel]

[balmy condor]

Guys any full length manga for how to play assassination rogue

[inner temple]

the cam i have in your room

[balmy condor]

Will also accept Denny’s placemat with red crayon if available

[gilded oasis]

I think Whispyr is working on one

[last skiff]

read HxH there is a rogue ref in it

[normal mist]

Zoldyck

[blazing jewel]

can I get the wowhead guide in braille

[last skiff]

pog

[balmy condor]

I will come over to your house with a chisel and write it in braille directly onto your monitor

[blazing jewel]

write it into my forehead lil bro

[balmy condor]

But then I’d need to write it backwards so you could read it in the mirror

That’s a lot of work

[blazing jewel]

read braille backwards

[normal mist]

@balmy condor can you log into beta?

Having a chat in #pvp and this popped up #pvp message

[last skiff]

@balmy condor make a guide how to play like him as rogue

[past forum]

Can i get the pedro gif sped up and slowed down so that he does morse code to spell out the assa guide

[balmy condor]

Not at work no