assassination

[balmy condor]

although I'm gonna be real

[grim jay]

we had the 10x packs on discount this weekend

[balmy condor]

I doubt this build is supported

[quiet oar]

No whisp

[balmy condor]

there's fallback conditionals for non-kb and stuff

[quiet oar]

Dont

[balmy condor]

but I can't imagine AoE is remotely optimized

I mean I'm not gonna

15% isn't saveable

not even god could salvage this build

[clever sapphire]

im not even sure how aoe is supposed to be played without spatter

[quiet oar]

Bleed

[clever sapphire]

do i just spam 2 cp ruptures on targets?

[flint marsh]

just make em bleed son

shiv for sudden

gg

[clever sapphire]

ah nvm internal is still cp reliant

[quiet oar]

This is so cursed

[balmy condor]

why would you shiv for sudden

if anything you should shiv for not sudden

[flint marsh]

for fun

[earnest remnant]

bigger SD pop = dopamine ofc

[balmy condor]

you hurt me

saving cooldowns for inefficient damage

[flint marsh]

as god intended

making me want to reroll nelf as well

bone spike is so satisfying

[clever sapphire]

that i agree with

but that build is just cursed

dslice sim, flying daggers is not even good on this cursed build

[flint marsh]

5% salvageable!!

[quiet oar]

[clever sapphire]

i mean this is "aoe" sim and whisp did say its probably not supported with this cursed build

but ye, i would probably play internal if i did a +2

cause i would never even get to pressing envenom in aoe

aight i tried, i cant come up with a solution for this build

[potent raven]

lmao

[twin pivot]

should I just peep wowhead rotations + practice w dummy to get the vibes

[royal lantern]

ofc?

hit the dummy for a bit to understand the basics and get some basic muscle memory in, do a dungeon/raid, and it starts flowing

[little valley]

Hey guys, quick question:
Is Deathmark damage different between Details and Warcraftlogs?
im trying to replicate a ST Rotation.
The Deathmark cast in Warcraftlogs shows around like 4,5 million damage per cast
On my own try in details it shows 273k (dot) per cast ?
Am i missing some effect / talent or sth?

[silk bane]

yeah, afair deails adds the duplicted rupture + garrote under your own ruupture and garrote. but wclgs parses those out and puts them under deathmark umbrella. same with poisons

[little valley]

ahh okay then it makes sense - thanks! i was worried im missing something crucial

[silk bane]

if u expand the breakdown of deahmark in logc, it shows u the poisons + bleeds it duplicated + the deathmark bleed itself

might help u add things up that wya

[grim jay]

just heard we are at a point of minmax, where we dont want class colored raid/groupframes because of the impact of colours on our mind

[royal lantern]

thats the kind of shit i expect to read in r/competetivewow

[clever sapphire]

colorblind people are a % gain, is that what you are telling me?

[grim jay]

over people that have class colours

basically

[grim jay]

doctorio confirmed on stream, must be true

[haughty flicker]

i cant wait to suddenly see aotc players with completely grey uis

[slim hamlet]

ngl if some colors are enough for you to fuck up your rotation you're cooked

[woeful meteor]

[grim jay]

its getting crazy

ngl

[royal lantern]

idk who that even is

and i dont wanna know it now

[strange python]

You really don’t

[royal lantern]

im not into streamer/content creator stuff at all tbh

[strange python]

Basically all of Antonidas plays the way doctorio teaches them

Jesus Christ of antonidas

Doctorio

[grim jay]

I mean you potentially couldve heard from him by googling guides

[strange python]

Antonidas EU that is ofc

[runic hinge]

Wait is this what theyre running in keys?

Cause this is the build i got off IV for pvp

[balmy condor]

hmmmmmmmmm

[candid anvil]

hey guys, does master assassin 30% crit snap on rupture and garrote pls?

[desert cove]

nope

[normal mist]

It's dynamic, while MA is active, 30% extra chance to CRIT, once it goes down, the 30% buff also goes away

[candid anvil]

damn that's sadge, thanks tho

[clever sapphire]

that explains that guy from before

no wonder i couldnt fix it no matter how hard i tried

[runic hinge]

I’m doing bgs and this was the aoe PvP build they had listed lol

[atomic creek]

How does Assassination feel right now?

[balmy condor]

like it did in season 4

which is how it felt in season 3

so I guess fine?

[runic hinge]

Which is siiiiick

oh

[balmy condor]

nothing changed

[atomic creek]

Well I haven't played in 3 years so that doesn't tell me much

[balmy condor]

it hasn't changed much from that either

you got a 1 min cd that fits into a 2 min cd

maintain bleeds

envenom a bunch

feels fine

[atomic creek]

How do you plan your Thistle Tea uses? Around the need for mastery, energy or both?

[runic hinge]

energy but only during shiv

[atomic creek]

Alright, thank you

[rare jackal]

holy fliesentisch

[balmy condor]

my grandma is old as shit man what am I supposed to do

[rare jackal]

maybe try injecting her with some stem cells idk

no but i love it

the fliesentisch and CRT really tie it together

[strange python]

[jagged sequoia]

Trying to find what the hit cap is on 60 SOD now with dagger rune

[grim jay]

#classic-discussion

or any classic discord server

[slate crown]

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Console_variables

If you ctrl+f for nameplates there's a bunch here, I've messed with these a bit, in particular ones like nameplateOverlapV, nameplateOtherAtBase,nameplateMotionSpeed, nameplateOtherTopInset

Plater exposes some of those variables as options. Honestly the whole thing is a difficult thing to manage because at the end of the day, nameplates are always going to be cluttered and to me at least, it's never going to feel perfectly arranged to not cause friction. But those settings are ones i've tweaked before to try and improve things. Nameplate Other At base is interesting as it puts namesplates at enemy feet rather than heads, which can be helpful when fighting extremely tall enemies (like in Nethalrus) where their nameplates start clustering at the top of the screen. Ultimately I didn't go with using that setting, but it's something you can try and see how it feels.

Also nameplateOtherTopInset is about the top of your screen. Nameplates tend to bunch at the top and there's a hidden height that nameplates won't go above, I think it's like 1.5 inches from the top of your screen. That setting lets you shrink that region so nameplates have more vertical screen space to breath

[grim jay]

what did you set that to?

[slate crown]

I don't remember the number off the top of my head

I think when plates are far away they ignore the setting, but for close up plates you can see them clustering. This is the default (0.08)

I had mine set to half that, at 0.04

So it cases a bit less clustering, it's not great but I think it's a bit better, there's just a ton of real estate above them in the default that isn't being used

Ultimately it's not a big deal in normal play, the biggest problems were when enemies were stupidly large on screen (specifically enemies in Neltharus caused problems for me, even when zooming out (but I tried to not zoom out too far so I could still see ground effects in the chaos, and because it's indoors). Other dungeons never ran into default being an issue

[errant trail]

essential information

[slim hamlet]

Are there any beta sims yet? And if so, how much less bursty does our dmg graph end up looking so far?

this what I mean

[balmy condor]

Similar

[slim hamlet]

Ah

Thought we would be a lot less

[balmy condor]

On that same graph our peak would be like 850ish

Depends a lot on how much more they nerf trinkets and weapon enchants and bullshit

They’ve tuned basically every consumable over the last 2-3 weeks

As well as nerfing a couple trinkets

And the weapon enchant

And they buffed fatebound and deathstalker

[slim hamlet]

Yea ok

[balmy condor]

Who knows man

[slim hamlet]

Was just wondering if we were still looking like burst class

[balmy condor]

Yes

[median beacon]

how WE LOOKIN BOYS

[clever sapphire]

i heard KB is optional (dont take this seriously if you dont know me)

[slim hamlet]

Just no PI

[balmy condor]

Not THE burst class, but one of them

[slim hamlet]

Every talent is optional

[clever sapphire]

had to edit before i get hit by the mute for spreading misinfo

[past forum]

we're definitely one of THE specs next season

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/misinformation-spreading-spreading-misinformation-online-gif-4543841945782036495

[median beacon]

we are the SPEC

[slim hamlet]

We were this season too

Crazy times

[past forum]

i predict that we'll consistently be a spec all throughout TWW

[slim hamlet]

Well

You know what happened to combat

[clever sapphire]

i have heard that a big streamer put us in the "impressive" part of his M+ tierlist

[slim hamlet]

We're next

[slim hamlet]

Just searched "best m+ specs TWW" and first video is a list with sin and outlaw in D tier and sub in C-

[clever sapphire]

we got up a tier after the last buffs

[slim hamlet]

Damn, guess we gotta reroll

[clever sapphire]

but the funnel

you just dont get it

[slim hamlet]

nono

We are D tier

Reroll time

[clever sapphire]

D for big D

[slim hamlet]

Welcome to fact or cap

[haughty flicker]

D for dassassination

It just makes sense

[fleet whale]

I mean assassination has only had a few moments in the Sun ever since the creation of M+, so that ranking is not a surprise

[slim hamlet]

Well I can tell you, that he had a whole lotta information wrong

But yea, it is likely

[willow rapids]

yes, pack it up, sin and sub impressive

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1258774957480218665/1267124920933023764/image.png?ex=66a7a58b&is=66a6540b&hm=f50c08526bb8e706d341ff8ec4dde95b157ed665308acc20a8d55a33e3b19a40&

[slim hamlet]

Too easy

[clever sapphire]

funny how his reasoning was that rogue has good utility and doesnt die, and because sub has good burst

[fleet whale]

Outlaw seems kind of bad right now but maybe it benefits a lot from the hero talents

[slim hamlet]

I mean if we do good dmg we prolly have the best util in the game for dps no?

Only I can think of with better is vengeance DH

[willow rapids]

oh, I didn't watch, didn't want to give him the view, glad to hear the reason, very smart

[clever sapphire]

ye a bm hunter in my guild argued with me how that guy is always correct, and he would play any spec better than me if he just touched it

so i was very interested in his arguments

he also talked about assa and sub at the same time

so very accurate tierlist

[slim hamlet]

Every beta tier list is correct

[clever sapphire]

tbh vesperals tierlist i can get behind

he ranked specs by fun

for him

[fleet whale]

I remember that website "wowmeta.com" that was created in SL beta and it created a spec tier list

[slim hamlet]

damn so assa was F

[fleet whale]

it had like no research backing it's ranking, yet it was posted like everywhere lol

that site gave some headaches to the mods

[clever sapphire]

it wasnt really a tierlist, it was a "winners and losers"

and rogue was on the loser side

with all 3 specs

[slim hamlet]

That's pretty much what I have been seeing from everyone else too

Whenever anyone talks about the down bad classes rogue is one

[clever sapphire]

ye and i think druid also pops up

their class tree is horrible

or so i have heard

[slim hamlet]

Rogue definitely the one I heard most

and Priest second

[clever sapphire]

i didnt hear much about priest, we dont have any sp mains luckily

[slim hamlet]

I play rogue for raid and disc for m+

[fleet whale]

so what's the early expansion class that people are obsessed with this time around?

[slim hamlet]

Mage

and DK

[clever sapphire]

and sv hunter

[slim hamlet]

huh

I have yet to hear anyone even utter that name

[fleet whale]

how about frost dks

[slim hamlet]

both DKs

[clever sapphire]

i dunno, i have seen quite some sv hunters

maybe it tuned down after the nerfs/hotfixes

or whatever it was

[slim hamlet]

Plague damage gets buffed by mastery, shiv and also works with spatter right?

[fleet pagoda]

#assassination message

in the bottom half, according to that, still unaffected

[slim hamlet]

Yea I see

But it is meant to then

was just thinking about this

[fleet pagoda]

aye. in that same list of bugs that's listed as (possibly intended) or whatever incase they don't want people to play around it ig

like holding a shiv/tea, as hero talents aren't supposed to intrude upon existing gameplay. all speculation from me though, idkfa

[balmy condor]

Whitelisting still a mess

Vicious venoms works with shiv but nothing else

[grim jay]

spoiler: no

[grim jay]

which is kinda a weird thing to do

screams "i need some content to do, gimme your clicks"

[wicked spire]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask - but is the Assa APL currently used by simc considered to be accurate/up to date? or does it need improving?

[grim jay]

is it accurate, whispyr?

[normal mist]

Thats a question for Whispyr

[silk bane]

is it accurate, whispyr?

[grim jay]

[normal mist]

[spice surge]

There hasnt been much work done to aoe sims but singletarget should be good

But then again, there hasnt been much changes

So the aoe one is probably still alright

[wicked spire]

why do i feel like i'm about to get flamed for asking lmao

[normal mist]

Wrong discord for that

[silk bane]

nah its not flame, its just funny

[normal mist]

It was about 3 people giving the same answer

[silk bane]

because whispys mainly the person in charge of sin APL, and usually hes very very very on top of it. rogue in general has one of the best/most accuracte APLs and some of the greatest TC community

[wicked spire]

tbf I would have asked in simc-land but I figured if anyone has a good idea whether the APL represents how the spec should be played, it's the Rogue discord lmao

[normal mist]

"whispys"

[slim hamlet]

Isn't that what youtube is about

[fleet pagoda]

if you wanna get flamed, make an announcement about needing more haste for more energy. gets the fellas all riled up

[grim jay]

idk, I'd rather not do that and not earn much money with it

[clever sapphire]

nah if you wanna get flamed just go into outlaw and say that acro is overrated

[silk bane]

u asked in the right place. rogue APLs are well optimized for every patch.

[slim hamlet]

I mean, if you're a content creator, people like to hear your opinion

Seems like a weird video to be madge about

But to each their own

[grim jay]

its not even remotely about being mad or not, its just a pointless video

[midnight atlas]

if you want to get flamed ask whispyr why he didnt include a build in wowhead guide that your favourite streamer is playing

[wicked spire]

guys i think you may be misunderstanding my objective here, i'm not looking to get flamed

[normal mist]

I can feel his blood boiling already

[normal mist]

Yeah dw its all just fun and giggles

[silk bane]

theyre just meming no ones flaming

[wicked spire]

(but thank you for the answers, all jokes aside)

[balmy condor]

Boutta do it to him

[normal mist]

We woke him up

[clever sapphire]

if any apl i trust its gonna be rogues

[slim hamlet]

Or make a meme about them losing dreadblades and sub getting it

[silk bane]

https://tenor.com/view/perfect-popcorn-michael-jackson-gif-26271837

[grim jay]

its 9:46 pm

whos sleeping

[normal mist]

You live in the future

[grim jay]

then whispyr does aswell

[normal mist]

AND I HAVE A FEVER

[grim jay]

[slim hamlet]

You're clearly not familiar with our game

[balmy condor]

I’m playing cards

But yeh eleem summed it up

[normal mist]

With Dadspyr?

[balmy condor]

Aoe is probably a bit meh

But close enough

Aoe sims are shit just on basis of dungeons

Being varied

Single target is good

[grim jay]

top trumps?

[spice surge]

spend a ton of time developing a good aoe sims that shows what the best talents for aoe is
m+ players decide to ignore it completely and go full ST

[slim hamlet]

Besides 2 talents

Not full ST if you think about it

[grim jay]

dont forget the dungeon route simmers

[slim hamlet]

Only did 25 keys, but even then the ST/cleave build just felt better

[fleet pagoda]

yep. it's all fun and games till you run out of feint charges until latrosius one shots you with his shadowbolts because he was alive too long

[slim hamlet]

fr

s3 was legit just "can you live? If so you will time"

So ST and just killing the dangerous stuff was legit

[balmy condor]

It’s more like

spend a ton of time optimizing aoe
my face when 7 different m+ builds
high m+ players don’t play any of the 7
guys my restealth
dungeonslice is dogshit
aoe patchwerk is dogshit
optimizing garbage sim situations for people who don’t use it anyway
none of the work changes gear recommendations
my face when aoe number up for no reason
minus 100 hours of my life

[spice surge]

What if i present you with a completely rewritten APL that only works on dungeonslice?

[balmy condor]

Killing myself

[spice surge]

Would that make you feel better

[balmy condor]

I could spend a lifetime optimizing dungeonslice just for musclebrah to sim 2 min 7 target

With a build I didn’t even consider

[fleet pagoda]

if it's any consolation i used like 3 or 4 different sim scenarios for 3 different builds when I got to like mid 20's trying to figure out what I should take depending on the dungeon and then factoring in more vers

[slim hamlet]

But at least you had fun meanwhile

right?

[fleet pagoda]

I referenced latosius shadowbolt one shots but still took big aoe overall for BRH because the little shitters are actually crazy dangerous

[balmy condor]

Yeah and I wish I could tell you that the sim was good enough for that

But you simming 3-4 different sim scenarios for 3 different builds

Is kinda the fucking problem

[fleet pagoda]

think it's a dungeon problem more than anything

look at RLP, it's like 2 entirely different dungeon environments comparing the top and lower halves

[balmy condor]

Yeah

Dungeons are way too varied

And any simulation fight style that could model it accurately

Just requires more computational power than current technology allows

I have an API key for raidbots, it lets me just full send a sim directly onto a full dedicated server cpu until my sim is done

[slim hamlet]

You planning to do more APL streams Whispyr?

Was kinda chill 2nd screen content

[balmy condor]

And I tried comparing 4-5 builds on a dungeon composite

And it took nearly 30 hours

Now I’m supposed to also test APL changes on that

Not possible

[midnight atlas]

just a few more years until raidbots integrates openAI

[slim hamlet]

You can just tell it what to do in plain english

easy

[balmy condor]

I mean if we want accurate dungeon sims, theorycrafters actually need access to whole ass server farms

And then take a week of vacation

Otherwise forget it

There’s just too much

[slim hamlet]

Weren't priests doing some crazy stuff

[balmy condor]

Yes

[slim hamlet]

Using the power of god and anime fr

[balmy condor]

And their shit is still watered down to what’s required for true accuracy

They’re doing dungeon composites

Like a big 4 hour fight with every dungeon back to back

Dungeonroute on crack

But it doesn’t have variance

And that’s the problem with the whole thing

You can make the fight style accurate to the dungeon, but then you can’t have variance

Or you can variance, but then you lose the dungeon accuracy

You’re fucked both ways

[midnight atlas]

i think all that is overkill for what we're doing

[balmy condor]

It definitely is

But with how accurate single target sims are

It’s natural for people to assume the same accuracy for m+

But it’s just mathematically not possible

[midnight atlas]

i heard rwf guilds have some special sims for raid encounters but thats just gossip i heard

[balmy condor]

No, that’s a thing

[fleet pagoda]

be that as it may, I just meant to convey that I'm squeezing what I can out of your work to make up for those limitations I appreciate the ability to even do that to inform my choices

[balmy condor]

Source me, making those special sims

[slim hamlet]

Wtf whispyr

Give us

Or I will get angy

[midnight atlas]

i think he signed an nda or some shit

[slim hamlet]

It will totally change anything for anyone of us

[balmy condor]

I was cooking double paladin blessing smolderon timings for season 3

For a guild

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-my-honest-reaction-damn-skull-skeleton-gif-15885937969029652188

[silk bane]

Well it’s different based on composition too…. And the best part of it is that none of it literally matters. The difference is like 1% and everyone’s bricking keys cuz jimbo the boss has a one shot ability ever 3.7 seconds and your Aug is too busy eating crayons . But instead of fixing that we are coping If I had 2.1k more dps here we woulda been fine

[floral shoal]

Guide says to play with ER. Maybe it was too long ago and I'm just not used to it anymore, so I switched to double vanish and amplifying/DTB felt much better in m+

[balmy condor]

Ye

[spice surge]

This was not in any way directed at you

[balmy condor]

Simming gems on dungeonslice for 3 hours just to walk up to billy bosser who then proceeds to target the healer 3x in a row

And the key bricks

[silk bane]

Nah Billy bossers a dick fuck that guy

All my homies hate him and jimbo bosser

[balmy condor]

Jumbo juicer, the caster mob cousin to Billy bosser

[silk bane]

Every prot warriors biggest nightmare

[spice surge]

Billy bosser or trash timmy

[silk bane]

Trash Timmy Billy bosser and jumbo juicer. Now this is peak M+ design

Sign me up I’m getting title

[strange python]

Jumbo juicer, Billy bosser and trash Timmy vs Overall Olaf

[balmy condor]

Padding Patty

[silk bane]

Overall Olaf is the player going against trash Timmy Billy bosser and jumbo juicer thinking if he had 0.24%
More dps he wouldn’t get ass blasted by Billy bossers “ass blaster 9000 get owned kid where’s your Aug” ability that he casts every 0.4 seconds

[midnight atlas]

these should be the names of the npcs in follower dungeons

[strange python]

I am trying to think of a name for healers and tanks

[slim hamlet]

Trolling Tommy and Ninjapull Nicolas

[fleet pagoda]

or follower dungeons could be Warband characters

[silk bane]

If I could rename bronnn or w.e that dudes name is in delves I would straight up name him crayon enjoyer yum yum. That dude is useless

[strange python]

Tanks are External Elias

[spice surge]

I want delve daniel

[strange python]

But what are healers

[midnight atlas]

bron cena from kyrian was dope, we need that as follower dungeon

[strange python]

Bron was goated that is true

Healers are Topping Thomas gg

[midnight atlas]

you had someone to blame when shroud skip didnt work well. and i kept the weakaura with "and his name is john cena" whenever he would spawn for like a week until i got mad listening to it

[balmy condor]

I'd let thomas top

[silk bane]

Did u enjoy my er cook? Are u gladge now?

https://tenor.com/view/thomas-and-the-magic-railroad-thomas-the-tank-engine-bust-my-boiler-falling-off-a-cliff-train-gif-23790369

[strange python]

Overall Olaf, Padding Patty, Ninjapull Nicolas, External Elias and Topping Thomas vs Thrash Timmy, Billy Bosser and Jumbo Juicer

[strange python]

Same, Thomas the tank engine surely rails good

[balmy condor]

I've never watched any of the godzilla movies

whoever that is

[strange python]

I wonder if Thomas wants shadow dance back to restealth

[spice surge]

Please refrain from posting erotic thomas the tank engine fanfic

[balmy condor]

yes

send it to me instead

[silk bane]

There are no rules about Thomas rhe choochoo railer

[strange python]

Head so good made Thomas derail

[midnight atlas]

Thomas the Tank-that-never-pulls-enough-mobs-and-you-hold-kingsbane-for-a-pull-that-never-comes

[shy pecan]

wtf

[shadow badger]

anyone got a shadowstep macro

mouseover

[balmy condor]

/cast [@mouseover] Shadowstep

[shadow badger]

that easy huh

[balmy condor]

I mean yeh

if that's all you want

[strange python]

I’ve never seen it this bad. It’s beyond terrible. I cancelled my subscription. I really didn’t have many options. I have other toons but, I only want to play my Rogue and nothing else. I was below the tank in 3 or 4 mythics. I mean, I really don’t even want to talk about …

[balmy condor]

I’ve never seen it this bad. It’s beyond terrible. I cancelled my subscription. I really didn’t have many options. I have other toons but, I only want to play my Rogue and nothing else. I was below the tank in 3 or 4 mythics. I mean, I really don’t even want to talk about …

[strange python]

And it’s all because I can’t use dance for stealth anymore smh

[raven egret]

I’ve never seen it this bad. It’s beyond terrible. I cancelled my subscription. I really didn’t have many options. I have other toons but, I only want to play my Rogue and nothing else. I was below the tank in 3 or 4 mythics. I mean, I really don’t even want to talk about …

[normal mist]

I’ve never seen it this bad. It’s beyond terrible. I cancelled my subscription. I really didn’t have many options. I have other toons but, I only want to play my Rogue and nothing else. I was below the tank in 3 or 4 mythics. I mean, I really don’t even want to talk about …

[placid adder]

I’ve never seen it this bad. It’s beyond terrible. I cancelled my subscription. I really didn’t have many options. I have other toons but, I only want to play my Rogue and nothing else. I was below the tank in 3 or 4 mythics. I mean, I really don’t even want to talk about …

[spice surge]

I've always seen it this good. Its beyond fantastic. I renewed my subscription. I really did have many options. I do not have other toons, i dont want to play my rogue, rather play anything else. I was above the tank in 3 or 4 heroics. I mean, i really want to talk about it

[runic hinge]

I’ve never seen it this bad. It’s beyond terrible. I cancelled my subscription. I really didn’t have many options. I have other toons but, I only want to play my Rogue and nothing else. I was below the tank in 3 or 4 mythics. I mean, I really don’t even want to talk about …

[old thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

[slate crown]

go off king

[hexed frost]

Bruh how much did the pre-patch gigabuff bleeds in any measure?

I'm doing 15-16s and have adds insta dying to demise at 4M-5M HP, literally wasting my kingsbane because adds can't survive my bleeds

[balmy condor]

15% aura buff is good

turns out

[slate scaffold]

[fleet pagoda]

yeah demise is poppin off right now

[hexed frost]

Like if I deathmark, kingsbane, shiv and have improved garrotes running, the adds are just melting like ice cream

[midnight atlas]

kingsbane should get an award for the most wasted spell in m+

[junior aurora]

I’ve never seen it this bad. It’s beyond terrible. I cancelled my subscription. I really didn’t have many options. I have other toons but, I only want to play my Rogue and nothing else. I was below the tank in 3 or 4 mythics. I mean, I really don’t even want to talk about …

[edgy panther]

what key lvl?

[normal mist]

Its a copy pasta

[junior aurora]

does anyone have problems with energy pooling in prepatch? I keep running out of energy in raids and i think the only way not to is to let your envenoms and ruptures tick almost all the way down to nothing before recasting at the expense of your own dps. it seems like energy has gotten nerfed or something because while pooling is nothing new it feels like energy regen is very slow--anyone notice this?

[normal mist]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[normal mist]

^
read this

@junior aurora

Nothing REALLY big changed

[spice surge]

It did get nerfed a little bit by removing the -5 cost on mutilate ye, but thats a rather small change

[normal mist]

Also, are you using the new way of TEA?

AkA 1 charge in the opener with shiv and then using them if you'd gain full energy value, better if this condition paired with a shiv window?

[midnight atlas]

do you have poisons applied ?

happened to me many times when swapping specs

[junior aurora]

yeah i have my poisons on and no i haven't heard about using that...i have heard use tea last few seconds of kb to get the mastery value i will have to check it out but i don't get how or why that works

[clever sapphire]

have you tried not swapping specs?

works pretty well for me

[normal mist]

Yeah things changed after the KB nerfs

[midnight atlas]

but how im going to do dps on the trash without ic?

[clever sapphire]

ah you meant talents

alls good

also just spatter

[normal mist]

This should make your rotation smoother @junior aurora

[junior aurora]

you still only use shiv with kb right? that hasn't changed

[limber lion]

Yes

In ST

[midnight atlas]

i swapped to sub in vault of incarnates for council fight and i panicked when we reached next boss and i had 0 energy i thought my char was bugged

[static glacier]

@balmy condor is non KB on the menu?

[balmy condor]

no

not even close

[clever sapphire]

council is the most fun assa fight wdym you swapped to sub

[balmy condor]

you have to run KB everywhere always

[clever sapphire]

i did a few for fun sims where i didnt take kb in the bleed build

in short

you lose like 15% st

[normal mist]

How's PoE?

[junior aurora]

I haven't played beta but has anyone noticed the darkest night proc that makes your next envenom give you 40 energy (unless i'm mixing that up with another perk) help with energy starvation at all?

[midnight atlas]

it was reclear, i wanted to play all specs

[junior aurora]

i should just hop on the beta

[balmy condor]

I mean energy helps yes

[clever sapphire]

aight aight fair enough i guess

so where did you play outlul

[balmy condor]

but the spec doesn't magically stop starving because every 4th envenom gives you some energy

[midnight atlas]

council, dathea and broodkeeper but i wasnt too successful

[balmy condor]

darkest night over a fight gives about as much energy as tea roughly

[clever sapphire]

currently the only fight i would try outlaw on is the target dummies

personally

[junior aurora]

Yes that makes sense...i just have to get used to playing more intelligently. i stg energy feels different after prepatch but maybe i'm just tripping

[balmy condor]

just venom rush difference

[grand trail]

Darkest night make every finisher 10 energy cheaper 😛

[balmy condor]

nothing else changed so can't really be much easily

[balmy condor]

what

[slate crown]

Takes 4 finishers to get a 40 energy proc, so 10 energy gain per

I assume is what they mean

[grand trail]

It's 4th finisher +40 energy so 10 per finisher

[midnight atlas]

i always had issues with weakauras lagging on outlaw, might be my cpu not keeping up with the gigachad cd reduction and insane apm. if it worked well i might try it more.

[balmy condor]

I mean that's not how that works

the envenom consuming darkest night inherently also costs more cause you need to mut more for it

[slate crown]

Unless you're using some super crazy inefficient re-roller aura don't see what auras would cause much problem on outlaw

[balmy condor]

and in aoe if you're multidotting the math completely goes out of whack

[slate crown]

Meaning that I doubt it's like all of them, and you probably just have one specific resource heavy WA dragging the rest down (assuming the problem is with WAs in the first place and not some other addon)

[midnight atlas]

pistol shot and combo points get crazy cpu usage for me. stupid ryzen

[cedar hare]

Rogue is not feeling good atm

[balmy condor]

why is ryzen at fault

[slate crown]

I mean I've got a bit of heartburn but otherwise I'm feeling ok

[midnight atlas]

because i played with the same wa on equivalent of intel cpus and they worked well

[balmy condor]

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-biden-presidential-debate-huh-confused-gif-16704157274113773062

[midnight atlas]

my cpu bottlenecks, i had to fix this issue for a while but didnt care that much

[balmy condor]

think that's my cue to go back to poe

[clever sapphire]

are we talking prepatch or beta

cause im havin a blast on prepatch

well "a blast" i love switching builds depending on my mood

and beta is prob the same but with a x% dps gain from fatebound

[fleet pagoda]

it's crazy how sin has so many functional m+ builds compared to so many specs playing rigid setups. feelsgoodman

[clever sapphire]

ye thats the most fun part for me about sin

also bonespike

[fleet pagoda]

yeah bonespike owns

[clever sapphire]

it just feels so nice in aoe when it refunds points

[earnest remnant]

talk about CPU frying yeh

[balmy condor]

75c on my laptop

ain't bad

[delicate orbit]

Seriously. I feel if you don't like rogue right now it might not be for you. It feels very good at the moment.

[delicate orbit]

First time using bonespike. I'm a believer. It's very good to energize the rotation and keep things flowing

[novel thicket]

Im new to assassination rogue and Im struggling to keep garrote up in M+. Any advise?

[delicate orbit]

Are you using plater profiles that highlight when it's dropping?

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[delicate orbit]

Whispyr has a good profile that highlights

[novel thicket]

Its the 6 second CD thats all and it feels weird to not let them go into pandemic

[delicate orbit]

Oh yeah, it'll take some getting used to. The CD means you're not going to have it running on every mob. As soon as you get out of that mindset you'll be good. You can only keep it running on so many mobs

Realistically

[novel thicket]

Right okay, I'm trying my hardest to keep it up on all targets and its not working

[spice surge]

You also dont need to keep unempowered garrotes up

You need enough bleeds to have energy

And ruptures are better than garrotes, especially with scent of blood

[delicate orbit]

You're going to have better luck keeping rupture up.

[novel thicket]

Okay thanks

[delicate orbit]

This. Keep rupture running and garrote when you can

[novel thicket]

Im usually playing lock or priest so the dots are naturally easy to kepp up

[spice surge]

But if you only have like 3 targets you might need garrote to keep the energy up

But on like 10 targets you shouldnt apply a regular garrote

[delicate orbit]

Is ok. You'll get used to it. It's a great time to be a rogue as far as I'm concerned.

[tall jay]

90c 😦

Still

[kindred cliff]

Can anybody tell me why Dreamcarver is considered BiS? Aren't there other daggers with better stats for us?

[normal mist]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Mast = Crit = Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs like Witherbark's Branch and Wafting Devotion can often de-value the stat in question. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

[normal mist]

Dreamcarver is ""BIS"" because it has a unique effect and you can play around the different buffs

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1181335994256064623/dagger.webp

[normal mist]

Some are useful

[fleet pagoda]

bis is also pretty conditional, outside of trinkets probably. if you don't have the rest of the kit on the bis list available to you the thing that sims highest is feasibly another item

[normal mist]

Yeah, dreamcarver in specific is just because it has special effects

not because of the stats really

[fleet pagoda]

did they buff on-uses? felt like this channel was regularly shitting on that dagger all of s3

[normal mist]

They didnt

afaik

[kindred cliff]

Well thanks for the quick info! 🙂

[normal mist]

[normal mist]

Keep in mind that during S3 you had Timestrike daggers

[slim hamlet]

Sure your CPU can handle all that?

pretty intensive task

alright nvm Stealthi already made the joke

[fleet pagoda]

for sure, maybe I just let the hyperbole of it sink in but the 180 from meme to bis in the context of the on-use got me shook regardless

[normal mist]

I mean, its just because there are no equivalent ILVL daggers as good as timestrike (and even that dagger is BiS Hero in the offhand afaik) and... i'm sure the BiS list only exists because it had to exist

Because the right answer should always be "sim"

[old halo]

thanks for all the nicely wrote Pins and wowhead guides whysper!!

[balmy condor]

np

[slim hamlet]

Cev appreciation post too

[old halo]

yes sorry Cev gave credit to Whispyr

[frail verge]

potentially stupid question, what does the second rupture in the opener accomplish? added duration, or?

[old halo]

spread ruptures

[balmy condor]

more energy, more scent stacks

more damage

[frail verge]

on ST as well?

[balmy condor]

that's the aoe opener

[old halo]

it says in aoe

[frail verge]

I'm talking about step 7 after reprimand

I was reading this as garrote -> rupture -> reprimand -> rupture

[balmy condor]

yeah

[frail verge]

so only 1 rupture in ST then

sorry I'm sure I'm just not parsing this correctly lol

[balmy condor]

I'm very confused

you only have 1 target in single target

so you only get 1 rupture

where would you even get more

[frail verge]

right I'm saying the list makes it look like you're reapplying rupture in ST

like immediately after

[balmy condor]

oh

[frail verge]

like rupture is step 3 and then step 7

[balmy condor]

nah

don't do that

you have carnage toggled

[frail verge]

ahhh

right makes sense

[balmy condor]

so you're looking at aoe shit

[frail verge]

thanks for the catch

that just flew completely over my head lol. beginner things

[balmy condor]

there's also better ways to show openers

but I'm forced to use those shit ass togglers

and aside from press button turn list item on/off

there isn't much there

which makes it very limited

[old halo]

took me a min but not hard to figure out the toggles

[balmy condor]

yeah but there's still weirdness with it

[old halo]

like 3 teirs ago

[balmy condor]

that is hard to get rid of

like just setting it up

is rough

[frail verge]

yeah I've mostly played mage for a while and the like graphic timelines are easier to understand for me visually

[vale shore]

I am loving assassin in AOE now. Hitting rupture and getting all your combo points back from 3 bone spikes is chef's kiss

[frail verge]

but I understand the wowhead limitations

what do you drop for bone spike? I'm just using the M+ talent tree from the wowhead guide as a starting point currently

[balmy condor]

there's bone spike talent trees in the wowhead guide

[real pike]

if you don't have SBS, how comes the second Rupture and CT aren't swapped here? doesn't having the second rupture 7 seconds in mean it doesn't spread through IC?

[balmy condor]

because the toggler system is dogshit

[slim hamlet]

fact

[real pike]

Ohhh ok so I should be doing 2nd rup as step 5 and CT as step 7?

[real pike]

Feel for you having to make builds on it, the old display was better idk why they force you into this new one

[balmy condor]

you should be spreading imp gar and rup during carnage yeh

rup until you're capped on scent

[balmy condor]

I have to do all sorts of cringe shit with this

like I have to have a toggle for bone spike, because it changes the opener

but I can't do double toggles

like each toggle is either line on or line off

[slim hamlet]

How fun was it making the Pandaland Remix BIS list Whispyr?

[balmy condor]

so there's legit no way for me to do bone spike + carnage

[balmy condor]

we didn't have a remix bis list

so

idk

you tell me

[slim hamlet]

huh

Oh

[real pike]

Cool thanks for clarifying

[slim hamlet]

There is just nothing in it

[balmy condor]

[slim hamlet]

[balmy condor]

also that's legit all template

I didn't write any of that

it's generic

[slim hamlet]

"BIS" and it's just a bunch of random stuff

90% of it is utility too

[balmy condor]

this is what the page is for me

every time it says content: guide#

that's a template insert

[slim hamlet]

So you did this

[balmy condor]

yes

[slim hamlet]

Bro closed his eyes and chose at random

[balmy condor]

correct

[slim hamlet]

The only way

[balmy condor]

I think one of the death knight writers linked their guide

and I copy pasted the gem section

tireless spirit, blink

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-yoink-marvel-mcu-spider-man-homecoming-gif-19232537

[balmy condor]

and then I just changed the spec to assa rogue

and called it a day

[slim hamlet]

But ehm actually this wouldn't be BIS 🤓

[balmy condor]

I was like "well it's a melee, can't be THAT wrong"

[weak plover]

I took double vanish. Fuck blink

[balmy condor]

and no one ever complained

[slim hamlet]

That's because I am the first person to open it

[balmy condor]

had one guy go "why take blink?" like day 1 of remix

and I told him more mobility is good

[slim hamlet]

Yea but like

[balmy condor]

and he was like oh okay then

[slim hamlet]

Why take blink

When you can take double sprint on different CDs

or vanish

smh my head

[balmy condor]

you think I know those exist?

[slim hamlet]

True

[balmy condor]

I have no fucking clue what gems exist

[spice surge]

But you can get a second vanish (that actually recharge independently) on remix, surely that is better for keys?

[slim hamlet]

I still don't and I have played it

[slim hamlet]

KEYS

[balmy condor]

I didn't play it at all either

[slim hamlet]

Can't wait to push world first keys in remix

[weak plover]

Yo. They should make the second vanish in TWW like the remix one 😎

[slim hamlet]

Fact

[balmy condor]

they should rework that whole column

[slim hamlet]

actually

Besides that would be another keybind

Also 2 points for subterfuge is actually crazy work

[gilded oasis]

Man I sure missed sbs never dropping from dummies

[slim hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/clueless-aware-twitch-forsen-emote-gif-25354609

[fleet pagoda]

i'm surprised there isn't instanced dummy testing so you can configure number of targets, consideration for execute, instant reset on debuffs/cd's

[slim hamlet]

Yea that feels like a thing there should be

but at the same time it's still an MMO, they probably like that you can see everyone go train

But like a full combat reset or something + CD reset

[fleet pagoda]

fair enough

[slim hamlet]

Like the bloodlust reset in keys

[ivory kernel]

A guy to click to reset CDs in the training room would be a blessing

[slim hamlet]

Pretty sure it's because of PVP that doesn't exist

But like, so what

[ivory kernel]

I can imagine the exploits

[slim hamlet]

Just don't pvp 2 meters next to main city

[ivory kernel]

But I would get so much more efficent training dummy usage if i could just click a guy and repull

[vale shore]

!dagger

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1181335994256064623/dagger.webp

[twin ermine]

Is blackjack way better than tricks? I know this might seem stupid but curious

[slim hamlet]

Depends on the group and what content

Think most people still use tricks, but for lower keys where you don't pull 200 mobs and your tank usually also have a harder time, blackjack is very nice with Airborne Irritant

[balmy condor]

most people probably shouldn't use tricks

tricks is pointless

the reduced damage on blackjack is pretty significant

tricks redirecting threat is only really relevant for pulling packs that are out of range of the group

it redirects pure rogue threat

which means it doesn't get the tank threat multiplier

[spice surge]

Sad part about blackjack is that the mobs you want the damage reduction on are often immune to blind

[balmy condor]

you can do a full opener and redirect less threat than like 1 gcd from the tank

[slim hamlet]

Yer

Would use blackjack 9/10 times too, but checked raider.io and legit everyone is using tricks for high keys

[balmy condor]

I would be willing to bet that they have no clue how threat redirection works

[slim hamlet]

DOTI was tricks dungeon fo sho tho

[spice surge]

And for some reason shadow dance pauses/reduces threat, now that isnt relevant anymore for assa but was last season

[short flint]

you pull agro very easily with kingsbane without threat on high m+ pulls

[slim hamlet]

There aint no way you are pulling threat that far into the pull

[spice surge]

In s3 and s4 you absolutely did

[slim hamlet]

Unless your tank stops using abilities

[short flint]

happens all the time

[slim hamlet]

I don't think that ever happened to me

[short flint]

its more the tank is tryn to tank 5 packs and ur doing a 10m kingsbane into 1 mob

[slim hamlet]

In like 100+ dungeons

Maybe if he is pulling, you begin setting up and he pulls more you can get threat on the new pull

[spice surge]

Kush and zero frequently asked their aug evokers to spec and give them the -threat buff

Nah its just huge kingsbanes pulling aggro if the tank aint actively focusing your target

[short flint]

yeah i pull agro almost every pull. It gets to the point you need to hold tricks until later into the pull

[spice surge]

But now in prepatch that should be fine

Because kingsbane is way weaker

[short flint]

yeah its been ok in prepatch

[slim hamlet]

tbf I did use tricks in most dungeons in s3 so might just not have had a time for it to happen

s3 had so many good tricks dungeons

[short flint]

and blackjack gets fairly limited use in high keys cause anything that can be disrupted is being disrupted and anything that cant be wont be affected by it

[slim hamlet]

Just checked I did 102 dungeons and only remember getting threat on Throne in the area after first elevator

I guess I just didn't do enough dmg then

[silk bane]

if you tricksd on pull, you would pull aggro by the time you do your 2nd shiv

I basiclaly woulda always evasion with my 2nd shiv

because I was pulling aggro 100% of the time

[mortal lark]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[bronze pike]

missing out on piss cloud serpent

[main oriole]

Is it looking like deathstalker for Sin on beta?

[delicate orbit]

I'm loving Assassination so far. Raid is fluid and fun. Mythic+ rotation feels just challenging enough to keep things spicy.

This is nice.

[slim hamlet]

Yes unless it is unplayable on the fight

[sonic sun]

what is the talent for every 4th enevenom you get energy

[balmy condor]

deathstalker capstone

[main oriole]

sorry, what do you mean by unplayable on the fight?

[opal geyser]

See Whispyr's large message from yesterday. Its like a couple paragraphs long and explains it

Long story short; intermissions/adds kinda break deathstalker

[main oriole]

so its bugged? ty

Just a bit confused by it. seems really clunky with assassination.

like ambush from stealth isn't that frequent

[limber lion]

Yep

[opal geyser]

Not bugged, designed poorly

You either hold the vanish you wanted to hold for deathmark so you can reapply it orrrr lose out on a ton of DPS

[main oriole]

it seems way too strongly synergised with 'without a trace capstone' to be generic

it's just bizzare to me if I compare it to something like sentinel on hunter. which is just 20% + free passive damage

[opal geyser]

I mean the concept is pretty straight forward, 3 2 1 empower the entire fight. Just only works really well when you whack one guy for the whole fight without interruption

[main oriole]

Isn't it only available on a 2 minute window? and only amps your first 3 5cp+ moves?

I guess it keeps itself up

[slate crown]

The capstone reapplies the mark

You can switch your marked target by envenoming someone else with the capstone active

Either because you naturally got the capstone by consuming the mark 3 times

Or because your mark dies

[errant trail]

hey lisonna

sometimes i feel like i don’t need to thistle during shiv is it because i’m not dumping enough energy

[slate crown]

You dump energy when shiv is active

Doing so should result in times where you are below ~190 energy when shiv is active

And in that circumstance, tea will not cap you

so you should tea

If you aren't below that point, that's fine, don't tea

Tea has 3 charges so not using it is fine as long as you aren't capping on charges, if you don't feel like you need to tea (because you have high energy) for a particular shiv cast, that's fine, then don't

[errant trail]

ok

another question

you think tea around 150-180 is good?

im also adjusting to kingsbane not hitting as hard

[slate crown]

I don't really look at KB damage ngl

[slate crown]

Yeah, Tea gives 100 energy, though you don't want to use it at 200 exactly because you are regenerating energy so you'll cap a bit if you're too close to 200

So, use it slightly below, I have my tick at 185

which is perhaps a bit too high but it's close enough

[errant trail]

i sent u an example in dm of what im dealing with

keep in mind i unmacro'd shiv/tea

after that

[slate crown]

Good

[dense seal]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool

[inner valley]

if i played outlaw in season 3, having never played assassination before, will it be easy enough to learn and potentially raid on sin with some enjoyment in WWI ?

[royal lantern]

idk if WW1 was much enjoyment tbh

[inner valley]

that bad huh

[strong dome]

Yea WW1 probably not the best of times

[worldly sentinel]

Easy to learn, yes! Enjoyment? Well, if they rework the herotalents and fix the bugs, maybee

[royal lantern]

it was a joke because the way you wrote TWW made it look like the short form for World War 1

enjoyment? its assa, the gameplay is the complette opposite from outlaw in almost all ways, so thats Something nobody can tell you

easy to learn? eh, thats a personal thing again, it has a set rotation and some special quirks, like all rogue specs

[knotty radish]

My farts could be a poison for assa rogues. Would do more dps too.

[balmy condor]

having played assa as a main spec for the last 8 years I can say it is very easy

100% no bias

[knotty radish]

Go to bed whispyr

[balmy condor]

it's 10am I just woke up

[royal lantern]

its monday

go to bed

[grim jay]

Hes in germany

Morgenstund hat Gold im Mund

[grim jay]

Kinda sounds like those shoulders

What were they called again

https://www.wowhead.com/item=178763/malodorous-gristle-sown-spaulders

[strange python]

@balmy condor Monster is buy 2 get 2 free in Austrian Billa - most of the time if that’s the case the same thing is happening in germanys Rewe stores, gotta restock

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

Bought 1 case of white edition and 1 case of Lewis Hamilton edition, should last for a week

[spice surge]

Insider info

[balmy condor]

white is good

lewis hamilton is kinda meh

[strange python]

I was a white edition only guy

But I fell in love with the Lewis Hamilton one

[grim jay]

Whispyr getting home by cargo plane

[strange python]

But I guess that is because I loved ice tea sparklikg

And that one kinda tastes like ice tea sparkling

[grim jay]

Paradise light green still best

[strange python]

The new Zero Sugar pineapple one is also kinda sick

[balmy condor]

that the green apple one yeah?

[balmy condor]

this is my dads favorite

[subtle kiln]

Funny ways to say Strawberry Dreams

[strange python]

That one is too potent for my likings

But it’s good once in a while

[grim jay]

The golden one with pineapple is sick

[strange python]

Yeah that one

[grim jay]

They have 2, dont they?

[strange python]

Dunno, I only buy the golden sugar free one

[grim jay]

Like the black one with yellow stripes is pineapple aswell

Dunno if sugar free tho

[strange python]

Can’t have any sugar

[strange python]

That one is the regular one I think

[balmy condor]

yeh green apple

very good

I like the whole tropical line tbh

purple and orange good too

[grim jay]

Same, im sugar free except for cooking with vegetables

[grim jay]

Imo arguably the best. There aint one Id like more, even across other brands

It just has something unique and special idk

[strange python]

Did you guys try Aussie lemonade

It’s kinda good

But has sugar

So I only tried

But it’s nice

[grim jay]

No didnt see that one yet

The only new thing I had lately was gönrgy

Someone said I had to try raspberry cheesecake

[wind void]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Mast = Crit = Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs like Witherbark's Branch and Wafting Devotion can often de-value the stat in question. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

[strange python]

That one I like a lot

But it’s hit or miss for people some hate it

Btw the cactus gönrgy is REALLY sick

I hate influencer stuff normally but that one is good

[uneven summit]

can one catalyst awakened buys?

[loud gull]

do u want to maintain CT inmediatly when it falls off in burst ?or is envenom with spatter better ?

[blissful cosmos]

how come i feel like my single target aint that good in keys lol

feels like it might of got worse

compared to other classes

like a ele shaman shited on me

[loud gull]

i ur on bleed build, power is shifted away from KB to blees

bleeds*

[blissful cosmos]

so that made uur single target worse?

ye ai am using bleed build

do i crimson tempest single target on bleed build?

[grim jay]

No

[grim jay]

No

[grim jay]

Some classes are just way stronger in prepatch

[blissful cosmos]

yea

i feel like some clases are just o far ahead

to

[grim jay]

Yeah thats always the case in prepatches

Dont worry about it

[blissful cosmos]

alright thank you

[grim jay]

If you do feel like you want more ST you might wanna sim the different builds tho

Sims are functional, at the very least for ST comparisons

And the hybrid build kinda changed

For example

[pastel roost]

Hi guys, just curious, do we have sims for ST ( not M+) for assassination since last beta build ? ( wouldn't mind sub either if we have them somewhere) ?

[delicate orbit]

Be careful with this. Ele (per discord) was shipped with a few bugs that are improving performance. They're an outlier.

[blissful cosmos]

@delicate orbit yea it seemed like he was cheating

the ele shaman

only boss damage tho

[delicate orbit]

Well, it's not cheating. You can't really do that in this game. But it is bugs.

[shy pumice]

Why does my Shiv Range when im using Artieral precision crazy

Ive pulled mobs further then meele

the 3rd boss in nelt ive pulled the trash above while fighting the trash next to the boss

is it an bug

[grim jay]

Are you sure you actually did hit them with that tho

[shy pumice]

no

Try it

works out on trash out in the world

Here a few screenshots

[balmy condor]

those don't seem that extreme

[mortal crystal]

Have had that happen, too

[balmy condor]

yeh the nelth thing happens sometimes

[shy pumice]

ive had it alot with trash

in alot of dmgs

and ive ended up pulling

in bh

also

i take it a bug

[slate crown]

Yeah, AP range feels longer than it should be, at least on target dummies in stormwind but I also assumed that was just target dummies being target dummies

[shy pumice]

as the range is further then meele

[balmy condor]

I haven't really heard of any issues outside of nelth

[shy pumice]

plus it only should shiv targets ur attacking

[slate crown]

May just be a feeling thing, it's something I've noticed for a while, but haven't noticed it much outside of dummies

[shy pumice]

i got kicked from a bh for pulling

[balmy condor]

unlucky

[shy pumice]

yeah,

i cant find any other posts about it

so i thought it was just me

[balmy condor]

I mean it is quite rare

[shy pumice]

kinda puts me off playing assa

as i have to focus on that also

[delicate orbit]

Wut

[balmy condor]

well

at least you know your priorities I guess

[shy pumice]

i dont want to be the person who ends up pulling trash for no reason

[delicate orbit]

It really doesn't happen often

[shy pumice]

i know that, just annoying as f, when it does,

[balmy condor]

you're like the 6th time I've heard of the bug all expansion

lmao

[shy pumice]

really...

[balmy condor]

it's really uncommon

[shy pumice]

or people havent been paying attention

[delicate orbit]

oh

[balmy condor]

I'm pretty sure people would notice if a pack gets pulled

that's not really hard to notice

[shy pumice]

yeah i only did when i got kicked it was actually me

as someone point out the debuff

but before that

i noticed it

but didnt know it was shiv

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

could also be a case of "prepatch stuff, shit is weird simetimes"

[shy pumice]

its kinda 360 also

[royal lantern]

[shy pumice]

happen prior prepatch

all expansion really

since that talent

ive had mobs behin me also that are natural being pulled

[balmy condor]

it's an aoe around you yes

[shy pumice]

yeah really it should be an frontal

for meele range

[balmy condor]

frontal sounds awful positioning wise

[shy pumice]

arc really as u will always have then in front of u

[gloomy jay]

Hello is it on this chan that i can write "!pool" ? or is there a command channel

[balmy condor]

!pooling

[prisma monolith]

Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back

• If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
• Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
• Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
• With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use

[grim jay]

I mean wasnt that an issue for many abilities

And the tank shouldve just pulled the group somewhere else anyways

[blissful cosmos]

what changes rotationally when playing deathmark

[grim jay]

Cant remember a single time where a tank didnt move the pack away from the other groups

[balmy condor]

you mean the cooldown?

you vanish before it and shiv/kb during it

and then slam envenoms

[blissful cosmos]

im sorry i mean the new herioc talent son beta

[balmy condor]

you ambush first gcd in your opener and 7cp envenom when you have the capstone

[blissful cosmos]

ohhhh

that what was giving me the full combo evenom thing

thank you

do we really fan of knives in single target some times

[blissful cosmos]

how do i add clear the witness proc into my luthoxous weakaura

[balmy condor]

Not as of now

It’s margin of error

So it’s just more effort for no tangible benefit

[balmy condor]

I’d probably duplicate an aura that already made in the pack, a buff preferably, and then just swap the trigger and tweak

[blissful cosmos]

alright yea it doesnt seem so important hopefully it becomes more stronger the proc

[balmy condor]

I’d fucking hope it doesn’t get stronger

Fok in single target is cooked

[blissful cosmos]

lol yea but i dont mind if it was actually worth

[balmy condor]

So cursed man

Mutilate better than ambush, fok single target

Would be actually an awful timeline

Spec makes no sense

[spice spire]

Gabagool spec

(Im still going to play it)

[balmy condor]

Imagine telling a new rogue that your aoe generator is better than your regular generator with the proc, and the regular generator is better than the stealth-only generator, but you still take the talent that procs the stealth-only generator because it’s free and the energy saved is where all the value is

If I was playing assa for the first time I’d have a fucking stroke lmao

[deft shore]

Playing it for the first time in a few years - my spec options are stroke, anyeurism or heart attack right now

[balmy condor]

Incredible

[grim jay]

They should just make ambush a talent for mutilate that adds some stealth benefits to muti

[grim jay]

Id take the stroke

[deft shore]

Yeah it’s the least debilitating option

[balmy condor]

Unironically if they deleted ambush for assassination and made blindside give a free mutilate

It would be a buff

Clown ass spec man

And don’t get me started on pooling and energy gameplay

Talenting into sanguine blades and then trying to stay under 50%

[grim jay]

Yeah but if they just let muti generate 1additional Cp and deal like 5-10% more damage from stealth they could keep their talent intention going and blindside would make it free

[spice spire]

So real for that

[nova aspen]

man im looking to maybe play sin in raid and outlaw in m+ for TWW, but the gear priorities are so different lol

[balmy condor]

Is it

Assassination gear priority is item level

What is it for outlaw

[nova aspen]

well i guess item level also

but then there is some min/maxing at peak ilvl

[hollow stone]

or they could just make ambush do more dam than mut

[nova aspen]

like usual

[sonic zinc]

wtf?

[balmy condor]

Yeah I guess if that 1% minmax matters to you

[balmy condor]

What, makes sense doesn’t it?

[hollow stone]

intuitive spec is intuitive

[balmy condor]

Talent says get damage above 50%

So you take it