play sub aoe opener
#assassination
waxen oyster
Like what sin lost dance gained ER?
waxen oyster
play sub aoe opener
I have
bitter flicker
@hoary remnant yessir lol
hexed frost
Garrote, rupture, slice, crimson tempest, mutlate before I can er and pop deathmark. 
waxen oyster
Garrote, rupture, slice, crimson tempest, mutlate before I can er and pop deathm...
That’s ramp time
hoary remnant
<@312625131686068234> yessir lol
bruh on beta I am breaking my fingers during the first pull. Macroing everything off gcd together was a god send
earnest remnant
waxen oyster
bruh on beta I am breaking my fingers during the first pull. Macroing everything...
I pressed those things manually for a season
was like playing piano
ngl
hoary remnant
I pressed those things manually for a season
I too but tea was to much now
sonic sun
hi, how can i find the deathstalker talent build codes for ttw beta ?
since the tww chanel is clipped
hexed frost
That’s ramp time
Someone can pay me a million dollars and still I won't play ER.
waxen oyster
Yeah remind me how one button every 45 is so difficult
hoary remnant
hi, how can i find the deathstalker talent build codes for ttw beta ?
CUQAam+v0FpP80IqJo3aSeC38CAAAAAAAAYWGjlJYBmZGzMzMzMjZmxsNGzMbbzMjZmZMGzsMbDAAAgZGMsZ2mhZbGGLMsNzy0CtNLwA you can play this in m+
balmy condor
hi, how can i find the deathstalker talent build codes for ttw beta ?
take the build codes that are in the pins and just drop deathstalker on top
there are no specific builds for hero talents
sonic sun
CUQAam+v0FpP80IqJo3aSeC38CAAAAAAAAYWGjlJYBmZGzMzMzMjZmxsNGzMbbzMjZmZMGzsMbDAAAgZ...
ur the best!
waxen oyster
idk what the guy’s point was
sonic sun
take the build codes that are in the pins and just drop deathstalker on top
ty will do
hoary remnant
You want in m+ always 3 rupture off (no shit) and then BP until you have no deathstalker mark anymore and use then with evis the capstone. Then again keep ruptures up and black powder.
waxen oyster
These people would have not survived
without IC and you had to manually tab rupture
hoary remnant
without IC and you had to manually tab rupture
Been there done that. Still cba I am getting old man young friend.
waxen oyster
IC is a god tier talent dont get me wrong
hoary remnant
Catching up in RL to ingame level is scary 😄
waxen oyster
but people
complaining about modern sin ramp up in keys
bitter flicker
These people would have not survived
Did it s1 and 2 pain to keep up when fighting bigger mods
waxen oyster
its just funny
bitter flicker
Mobs*
waxen oyster
Did it s1 and 2 pain to keep up when fighting bigger mods
Only did that in s2 because it was a sub season
s1 was outlaw outside of AA
replicating shadows not having smart targeting is a giant pain
balmy condor
but people
complaining about modern sin ramp up in keys
these fellas don't know bout early BFA with OG scent of blood
waxen oyster
these fellas don't know bout early BFA with OG scent of blood
Wasn’t seli the biggest scent advocate
swear some people just hard fixated on 3x shrouded then fok traits
spice surge
Shrouded got nerfed by like 40% the second week or something
waxen oyster
Wits still takes the crown of
spice surge
If you RNG:d a high ilevel piece before then you were BLASTING
waxen oyster
If you RNG:d a high ilevel piece before then you were BLASTING
”Do I get bis max shrouded piece from my vault or mydas talisman”
spice surge
No options here
clever sapphire
does any1 know why the brackenhide tree boss just explodes when it goes into the shield phase btw?
flint marsh
its extra hungry so eats itself
ancient tangle
is this normal on a nyalotha farming on a 20 sec opener ?
unborn yacht
is this normal on a nyalotha farming on a 20 sec opener ?
yes
unborn yacht
No, just odd interactionw ith old content
ancient tangle
ah yes ok
unborn yacht
happens with enh shamans who go lightning build
ancient tangle
ah ok the spells scale odly i guess
hoary remnant
is this normal on a nyalotha farming on a 20 sec opener ?
As sub you have currently in old content in details death from above
when pressing evis
clever sapphire
nah its just sanguine blades doing big dmg for some reason
still creek
Same with arcane touch of the magi, broken in old content
clever sapphire
early S3 sanguine was double dipping on dps increase moments so you just had sanguine almost your top dmg at like gnarlroot
so its probably still bugged for old content
spice lagoon
Alright boys how ya’ll liking those new buffs for rogue
They about to come out with
clever sapphire
you mean the deathstalker buffs?
spice lagoon
Go to wow head they said sum about buffing rogue and making mages shit
normal mist
Go to wow head they said sum about buffing rogue and making mages shit
thats how we feel
spice lagoon
He’ll yes sin is gonna be cooking
ancient tangle
assa gonna be strong ?
slim hamlet
Actually 0 people knows
ancient tangle
ah lol x)
slim hamlet
They aint close to done with tuning
normal mist
Probably not even blizzard knows
slim hamlet
^
slim hamlet
Maybe during heroic week we will know
normal mist
Maybe during heroic week we will know
I was pointing towards that timeline as well
slim hamlet
But only maybe, because then there will be adjustments too
ancient tangle
but looks promising ?
normal mist
Define promising?
Because Assa gameplay had little to no changes to his core gameplay
Even with hero talents
slim hamlet
Only thing you can rly look at, is if we can take talents that doesn't make us ONLY ST or ONLY AOE, aswell as just how different dmg profile you can do + if the fights needs burst, if we have it, stuff like that.
ancient tangle
promising in gameplay and output
slim hamlet
I wanna make you weak
normal mist
That we already answered
slim hamlet
fr
normal mist
"people hate" and most of them don't even have access to beta
ancient tangle
i liked it in s4 but echoing reprimand is not really my favorite gameplay
slim hamlet
Well just saying what everyone is saying, haven't played and I think it looks nice
normal mist
I haven't played it as well
slim hamlet
Echoing reprimand is just clicking finisher when on light up button
Never understood why people disliked
normal mist
but i rather have my own conclusions if it is bad or not (gameplay wise) once i try it
slim hamlet
You get more energy and a little minigame (which rly doesn't require a lot of brain power)
slate crown
I've played it and I don't like it
normal mist
All I remember about fatebound is that we either get more damage or we get MORE damage
we're always winning
slim hamlet
I mean it will be dogpoo on some fights, but then just choose the 100% passive one instead
slim hamlet
runic hinge
I have access to the beta and I haven’t played it
runic hinge
slim hamlet
I got beta for dragonflight and only logged in to see tmogs on my characters
ancient tangle
I mean it will be dogpoo on some fights, but then just choose the 100% passive o...
u speaking of echoing ?
runic hinge
No. Deasthstalker
ancient tangle
ah yes soz
slim hamlet
Yea I don't see echoing as anything that matters at all
In any way
Besides maybe in m+ if you don't go bone spike for better start to a pull
ancient tangle
it sure not a big deal but still
slim hamlet
But would only matter in smaller pulls too
Only thing I care about is why in gods name they didn't make it more rogue-like, considering they changed a lot of covenant visuals
and ER just doesn't even get close to fitting
Or wait. Did they change it?
normal mist
Change what
slim hamlet
The looks of ER
slim hamlet
I feel like it got changed to physical
slate crown
it's just a backhand
slate crown
(But you can fix it by going to shadowlands and repairing it)
slim hamlet
I was still in the headspace of between 1st and 2nd set of covenant changes I guess
spice spire
Doing great. Haven’t had to read a single thing from @slim hamlet today
Call me blessed
slim hamlet
manic harness
i'm doing good! Shoutout to @slate crown for help with WAs, I took hers and personalized them a bit and I really love my UI
spice spire
i'm doing good! Shoutout to <@228712200385200130> for help with WAs, I took hers...
Paid actor. Refuse to believe anyone would advertise for @slate crown considering how much she does herself smh
(This is a joke LE is a gem and we don’t deserve her 
)
slim hamlet
On her 2nd account advertising again smh my head
manic harness
have you ever seen me and @slate crown in the same chat at the same time?
slim hamlet
I have not
spice spire
hot chasm
How is rogue looking for war within, haven't kept up since march
normal mist
TLDR playstyle is the same
normal mist
Number wise we don't know yet
hot chasm
tyty
spice spire
Left up to balancing.
Looks okay. Design messy but 99% just care about numbers
And numbers are fine 
slate crown
i'm doing good! Shoutout to <@228712200385200130> for help with WAs, I took hers...
Thanks glad it's working well for you! Don't mind the haters and losers (they're lovely and great people)
spice spire
Wow @ me big dog
lime temple
can someone point me to a decent ST and M+ build for beta? Sorry in advance
slim hamlet
Pretty sure it's the exact same as now but with hero talents
There are some stuff u can do with SBS at least, Whispyr has a video on it if nothing else
lime temple
yeah i was most ly focused on hero talents, but all g. ty
normal mist
I believe the hero talents dont really have many variances
and the choice nodes are defensives, besides that one ColdBlood node that we dont really use because ER better (for fatebound)
lime temple
Is one tree better for m+/ST vs the other?
normal mist
I'd say personal choice mostly
lime temple
cool ty
muted aspen
Hey! Hello! :)
Could you please tell if I should delay my 2nd deathmark for vanish to apply empowered garrote before deathmark?
runic hinge
I personaly enjoy AoE SbS
I like the rupture refund. I don’t like the single combo point garrotes
normal mist
Yeah the rupture refund is so welcome
normal mist
Hey! Hello! :)
Could you please tell if I should delay my 2nd deathmark for vani...
yes
Thats exactly it! After that, all DM/vanish remain synced
runic hinge
It just makes it feel awkward trying to get that first finisher off
normal mist
Also, iirc try 1st vanish garr at 6sec remaining of your first garr
slim hamlet
SS is 6 seconds too now right?
muted aspen
Thats exactly it! After that, all DM/vanish remain synced
Thanks! :)
normal mist
SS is 6 seconds too now right?
yes
odd flax
where to macro cold blood for the new build?
slate crown
CB isn't recommended, but if you want to use it macro with envenom
normal mist
CB isn't recommended, but if you want to use it macro with envenom
for beta fatebound or prepatch rn?
slate crown
for beta fatebound or prepatch rn?
I don't think it matters for fatebound right? You can macro it to anything you want ever with fatebound cause it only applies to envenom
assuming you play the CB fatebound talent
normal mist
Oh ok ok, because i believe whispyr above said mutilate/fok
bcs CPs
maybe im confused about stuff
spice surge
For prepatch i dont think it really matters much
spice spire
In prepatch nothing matters
spice surge
Its just shit either way
slate crown
Maybe not in DPS, but in style
CB has no style tho you just macro it to something and it gets consumed instantly
manic harness
slate crown
ER has at least a flip and if you've installed the fix patch on your client you have the correct animation
manic harness
THIS is style though
spice spire
Like ur experience bar I “zzz” (this is also a joke)
normal mist
That’s royal’s former stomping ground
You bet it is
manic harness
yo wtf, get urself into <#226403529894526987>
looking good > being good
This is true
normal mist
For prepatch i dont think it really matters much
Thanks for clarifying Eleem, 
slate crown
🫡
brazen oasis
can someone tell me how we're suppose to play deathstalker in m+? like if you dont have vanish rdy u have to choose between applying deathstalker's mark or spreading garrote???
spice surge
If you dont have the capstone up you'd ambush for the mark yes
But most of the time (besides the first pull) youll have the capstone up
brazen oasis
ah so you have to keep it for the next pull
and first pull you would ambush > vanish > garrote?
brazen oasis
true.. somehow my brain thought its only if you cast garrote out of stealth as first global
opal geyser
THIS is style though
How do you get the two sets of weapons bug?
runic hinge
Set your swag on 100
opal geyser
Is it setting mainhand to the legion artifact then swapping weps?
shy heron
This man is absolutely full of daggers
runic hinge
Is it setting mainhand to the legion artifact then swapping weps?
Could just be a dagger that sheaths on the back thing
opal geyser
Guessing just artifact appearances bugging for many weaps. For my lock it has two skulls floating around it
fierce aurora
hey guys when our cds are down and we pooling with evenom what do I do when I have 6+ cp and my evenom still ahve 5 sec before going in pandemic? do I still mutilate for dmg or... wait?
on a ST
fierce aurora
kk just wanted to be sure I wasnt missing some dmg while you know waiting hahaha
royal lantern
nah, just always generate CP asap, but wait with spending them
fierce aurora
yeah that's what I do, thanks im a month old rogues so still learning haha
royal lantern
if you have a long time for that, i mean thata good cus you ger a good chunk Energy back during that time
fierce aurora
just not used to it yet, moved from enhance shaman hahaha
viscid jackal
i’m struggling with conflicting info on guides for assa pvp rotations
thorn fjord
The Env mini game feels so much better with DS @royal lantern
viscid jackal
ty
viral stump
Wonder when Hekili is going to update for rogue? Asking for a friend.
thorn fjord
Hekili has historically always been really awful for rogue
viral stump
I found it to be helpful when I was learning sin rogue. Wanted to try another spec. There are no modules for rogue out yet though.
spice surge
Theyve historically given wrong information on what to press for rogue specs, no idea about rn though
strange python
I found it to be helpful when I was learning sin rogue. Wanted to try another s...
@low ruin did you finish your fork for assa? 
thorn fjord
Only classes Hekili ever did well on for me have been UHDK and Frost Mage
fierce aurora
im not able to learn with hekili im only prtessing what it tell me without learning why
so I removed it
im too dumb to learn while looking at hekili hahaha
royal lantern
The Env mini game feels so much better with DS <@346293680883236864>
DS?
thorn fjord
Deeper strat
past forum
dee snuts
thorn fjord
That too
sharp lily
Ooooo i dont like Bonespike not resetting on wipes
delicate orbit
kk just wanted to be sure I wasnt missing some dmg while you know waiting hahaha
I think of it like feral waiting for energy. Because of the nature of your bleeds and poisons the time spent waiting is still doing damage, so it equals out. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is how I see waiting for energy to pool.
fierce aurora
I think of it like feral waiting for energy. Because of the nature of your bleed...
pretty sure you are not wrong I'm just not used to it since I moved from a fast paced class that you always press something haha
prisma monolithBOT
Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back
- If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
- Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
- Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
- With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use
slate crown
Everything is about using resources efficiently. That's it. and the main take away is that "not pressing a button" is sometimes the right answer
thorn fjord
Can always play OL if you really want to press buttons
slate crown
you can just sit there, and as long as you are not wasting any resources (energy capping, and your dots are up and cooldowns are on cooldown already) you are still doing optimal damage, assuming Shiv and other cooldowns are not active
fierce aurora
ty dieslow already read that but I was still wondering now I know its ok to wait hahaha
you know rogue can be a little bit more rock and roll in m+
slate crown
You pick where you spend resources, so you don't spend them when it's less important (no cds), and do spend them when it is more important (during cds)
fierce aurora
when you cant stealth
slate crown
the rest are just the smaller details
delicate orbit
pretty sure you are not wrong I'm just not used to it since I moved from a fast ...
It'll take some time if you're coming from enhancement.
You're used to hitting abilities on cool down and filling. Assassination just doesn't run that way. There's a lot of build up, then a flourish, then back to pooling and build up.
At least from my perspective.
Take some time to hit a dummy for five minutes and really get settled in. It's a smooth ride.
fluid glade
hows the rotation diff in beta vs live with deathstalker
slate crown
hows the rotation diff in beta vs live with deathstalker
Deathstalker is basically the same, just every time you get darkest night you go to max combo points
there are specific nuances to it that are yet to be fleshed out
Also it's likely we'll be using FoK in single target with the last changes, once after applying the mark
delicate orbit
Also it's likely we'll be using FoK in single target with the last changes, once...
Well that's interesting. I'm sure we'll see how well that's received on beta
thorn fjord
Also it's likely we'll be using FoK in single target with the last changes, once...
Still better than CT on st
But I’m a hater
slate crown
fierce aurora
Am I losing a lot of DPS if I go fatebound since I dont want to manage Deathstalker?
pure bridge
Ct being one of your top damage in ST during Sepulcher was goated /s.
normal mist
You'd be losing more dps if you forced yourself playing DStalker
fierce aurora
depends if you are playing on beta or not haha
limber lion
Am I losing a lot of DPS if I go fatebound since I dont want to manage Deathstal...
Yes
But if you play Deathstalker poorly and fuck up the marks, you'll lose a lot
Fatebound is easy to play and hard to fuck up
Would probably still recommend Fatebound to most
thorn fjord
Isn’t it rng
fierce aurora
You'd be losing more dps if you forced yourself playing DStalker
I guess so at same time if I take the time to learn it do you have to be perfect at it to do more dps or some error still permit you to do more DPS than Fatebound
normal mist
Its RNG but you never "lose"
thorn fjord
I gotta start looking into this shit
normal mist
You either win or you win
fierce aurora
thanks ceverion for the quick answer
i will be honest since I'm learning I realy love Fastebound hahaha but I know people hate the RNG of it
normal mist
I guess so at same time if I take the time to learn it do you have to be perfec...
I mean being perfect its a way to put it, not failing the rotation is another xD
normal mist
i will be honest since I'm learning I realy love Fastebound hahaha but I know pe...
People read "RNG" and be like "so its either really good or really bad" and i believe thats not the case
limber lion
i will be honest since I'm learning I realy love Fastebound hahaha but I know pe...
They just recently buffed the bad coin
So now both coins are pretty good
So it super kinda doesn't matter what happens
It's just free dam
fierce aurora
oh great!
slate crown
Heads you win, tails you win
raven egret
more like you don't care either way~
haughty flicker
Track every single flip for the entire expansion
And give us the results at the end
I’ll be waiting
runic hinge
Oh shit
I could do that
Gonna have to set a reminder but I will definitely think about it
fading adder
I’ll be thinking about you too man
runic hinge
I’ll be thinking about you too man
hollow stone
tails never fails, it rhymes so you know its true
slate crown
tails never fails, it rhymes so you know its true
runic hinge
https://tenor.com/view/tails-sonic-open-mouth-oowa-no-mouth-gif-26603460
my dad always made me play as tails
carmine fable
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
proper jasper
Hello all, did key difficulty get nerfed in pre patch?
seems like things are much easier than last week
past forum
Hi, so just so I’m understanding correctly….we still save a tea for KB, but instead of strictly using it at last 6 seconds we just use it whenever it won’t overcap energy? And then the other uses as normal for energy
hexed frost
Hello all, did key difficulty get nerfed in pre patch?
No, we got stronger
slate crown
Hi, so just so I’m understanding correctly….we still save a tea for KB, but inst...
We're not saving it for KB, we're saving it for shiv
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1014354006270808144/1238343278005588062/AssassinationShiv.gif
Basically just use it with/shortly after shiv as long as it won't cap energy, yes. Regardless of anything else
Don't use it outside of shiv
Also in the opener you'll want to just use the first charge to get it off cd with your first shiv (regardless of energy capping)
wise trail
So I’m starting rogue for the first time what should I know or any starter tips so I don’t build bad habits
slate crown
So I’m starting rogue for the first time what should I know or any starter tips ...
What I said in the sub channel applies the same here for assassination 
. Not as much for outlaw but that's its own can of worms
neat plank
!restealth
prisma monolithBOT
Explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:
- Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
- You can add in some sanguine/rupture value from carnage, but chaining allows for higher uptime and smoother energy overall, eliminating a lot of ramp at the start of a pull
- This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths (chain heavy spiteful weeks are only about -30% on stealths)
- You still have vanish which gives you plenty of options to get your stealth effects
- This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years
hollow river
seems like things are much easier than last week
I believe armor values are bugged so physical damage is way more reduced than before
It’s been fucking up pvp bad, heard it’s also made tanking certain things in pve quite easy
kindred breach
So I’m starting rogue for the first time what should I know or any starter tips ...
If you play Sin i'd recommend to focus on pooling its kinda counterintuitive to do, and if you start not doing it you'll never catch the trick
Since its pretty simple to do in first place i would start here
hollow helm
is there a link for beta sims?
kindred breach
is there a link for beta sims?
I didnt found them, but you got some sims with new changes in the last Whispyr's video
You also have prepatch sims in the subletly chan pins
balmy condor
I'm not posting beta sims on purpose atm cause there's no point
kindred breach
Wait it's like 10AM in Germany did you had a full night of sleep ?!
kindred breach
🤣 I send you strenght for gardening chores
hollow helm
do anima charged combo points below 5 not consume a deathstalkers mark stack currently?
sick sail
Was practicing my assa rotation, my roommate called me getting stuck at an off roading trail at 2 am…. Went and un stuck him with my truck, saw a random assa guide on YouTube from a year ago, feel caught up, just gotta remember that shadow dance is removed
He was an hour away so I got some good knowledge, gotta learn our knowledge
kindred breach
it's over though thank god
I feel you, imagine digging old ass trees instead of hope for your fellow thieves...
kindred breach
do anima charged combo points below 5 not consume a deathstalkers mark stack cur...
I believe not? But i'll let someone who tested respond
hollow helm
I mean Im trying it right now
its just super cursed if this is the way its intended to play
balmy condor
do anima charged combo points below 5 not consume a deathstalkers mark stack cur...
ER doesn't interact with anything deathstalker at the moment yes
ashen oriole
ER doesn't interact with anything deathstalker at the moment yes
is it a bug though or do we expect it to stay this way
balmy condor
off feeling it should work
but you can make an argument that you're not actually spending the cp
you're just getting the damage as if it was 7cp
but given it works with stuff like outlaw/sub cdr
hollow helm
but you can make an argument that you're not actually spending the cp
Thats cooked
ashen oriole
i dont like this argument
balmy condor
I can only assume it's supposed to work
hollow helm
the wording is "finishing moves function as if they consumed 7 combo points"
balmy condor
correct
ashen oriole
"finishing moves function as if they consumed 7 combo points" and "When you spend 5 or more combo points on attacks"
seems clear to me what should happen
i hope blizz agrees
silver escarp
!restealth
prisma monolithBOT
Explanation of why restealths aren't as important as you might think:
- Garrote does roughly 14% of your damage overall in a key. This means from 100% improved garrote uptime to 0% improved garrote uptime, you would be losing 4.6% of your overall damage
- You can add in some sanguine/rupture value from carnage, but chaining allows for higher uptime and smoother energy overall, eliminating a lot of ramp at the start of a pull
- This is compounded by the fact that you simply do not lose that many restealths (chain heavy spiteful weeks are only about -30% on stealths)
- You still have vanish which gives you plenty of options to get your stealth effects
- This has been supported by logs and by simulations, for many years
silver escarp
I can understand the restealth in chain pulling not being important. But before a boss? Isn't it better to restealth?
steel ridge
its always "better" but not breaking your game if you arent able to
and if you pull 8 mobs onto a boss you are doing more damage than if you get of that restealth
that one garrote isnt going to outweight the cleave you gain from 8 more targets or some shit
silver escarp
Yea ofc but i'm not in groups that does that
I'm more in groups that pull the boss alone
steel ridge
if the tank pulls the boss alone
you should get that restealth off right?
or why dont you?
balmy condor
the question isn't whether it's better or not, it's about by how much
if you don't get a restealth before a boss
hoary remnant
You can restealth if the tank move along and your fight off the last mob(s)
balmy condor
you lose out on 1 improved garrote
which is whatever
it's not as good as having it obviously
but oh well
silver escarp
Yea, was curious. Better to know and not agonise myself over no restealth !
But why won't we play dance anymore? ER is just that much better? (sry 'bout that question if it was already answered)
silver escarp
Oh yea i didn't see sry
steel ridge
how can you not see that while playing
steel ridge
another reason not to bother about miniscule minmaxes
neat plank
how come I'm doing giga burst single target dps post KB nerf & losing shadow dance? and my overall dungeon dps is way up
I guess they must have really buffed everything else ;O
balmy condor
15% aura buff is a crazy thing
neat plank
nice
royal lantern
15% aura buff is a crazy thing
i dont belive in aura buffs
steel ridge
aura buffs are a conspiracy theory
static glacier
spoken like people who have 0 aura 
tawny junco
Assa fellows, in m+ atm in prepatch should I focus on putting garrote, rupture and crimson tempest and then going st on one add? Playing the bleed build
For caustic spatter
balmy condor
Assa fellows, in m+ atm in prepatch should I focus on putting garrote, rupture a...
yes
safe wigeon
i want to show my hp bar below my character but its locked what should i do?
balmy condor
i want to show my hp bar below my character but its locked what should i do?
personal health and mana bars?
safe wigeon
personal health and mana bars?
yep
tawny junco
What happens if my target dies while I used death mark on it? Would I cry?
balmy condor
idk why it would be locked
balmy condor
What happens if my target dies while I used death mark on it? Would I cry?
you're doing too low keys, take the L, drool over the sudden demise proc you just got, and move on
balmy condor
chilly mist
how should I look at rupture/garrote bleeds in aoe? just get maxed Scent of blood then just Caustic Spatter spam?
balmy condor
yep
ebon apex
Which of the rogue specs do you guys recommend for an outlaw refugee
ebon apex
even outlaw is fine
just wanna try out something new
chilly mist
Hm ok, so what are the garrote uses outside of Indiscriminate carnage?
balmy condor
to put up on your main target and get some extra energy if super needed
pulls usually don't last long enough for it to super matter
royal lantern
Hm ok, so what are the garrote uses outside of Indiscriminate carnage?
the "rule of thumb" should be
during IC you just spread bleeds wide (which happens in 2x garrote and 2x rupture)
when the IC bleeds end, try to keep them running on priority targets/targets that dont die in 5 seconds because a ret paladin sneezed in their direction once
chilly mist
haha ok I see
balmy condor
it's always #1 prio to just bleed until you have more energy than you need
past that it's basically just maintain CT and caustic spatter
maintain rup for scent obv if you have that
prep yourself for a chain pull by getting another rup or gar out to bridge the gap
etc etc
royal lantern
it sounds more complicated then it really is, trust me
balmy condor
I think of it in terms of like the value of a bleed, take rupture for example:
- If you don't have carnage, gonna be weaker
- If you don't have scent, gonna be weaker
- If you don't need energy, gonna be weaker
- If you don't have bone spike charges, gonnna be weaker
and so as you check more boxes in your rotation
the amount of stuff that bleeds are doing for you
goes down
chilly mist
thats a pretty good way to look at it
balmy condor
usually after the energy bullet point there
it's kinda difficult to justify solo rupturing something
cause it just doesn't give much past that
not that rupture sucks, it does a ton of damage
but at that point you're like 15 seconds into the pull and probably have cooldowns running and by the time those are done you're like 25 seconds into a pull that lasts maybe 40 seconds tops?
and that point like just envenom ya know
chilly mist
yeah make sense
I appreciate the pointers, only started Assass m+ 2 days ago so 🙂 Just last question, have checked some high key logs for damage breakdowns. I noticed Caustic Spatter was pretty significantly outdamaging anything else but in my sims it's mainly Garrote and Crimson Tempest on top
i know sims are kinda broken atm but how should that be looking like? roughly
also the logs are all before the patch came out so I can imagine it being different now too
balmy condor
yeah so that's kinda a build difference most of the time
if you're unfamiliar with the shift between lower keys and higher keys
I'd suggest this
the tldr is high keys run very single target/caustic heavy talents
and low keys that would be troll because your kingsbane just nukes whatever it hits instantly
so you can't make use of caustic as easily
the swap to where the big single target builds are good is typically agreed to be around +14-16ish
but with prepatch balance who knows
chilly mist
ahh interresting
will use this prepatch to expirement with those, didn't realize there were such different builds
thanks for all the help o7
balmy condor
np
pseudo hamlet
It's worth to use ER during the IC window to spread the 7CP "animacharged" ruptures or it really doesn't matter?
balmy condor
Depends on the pull size but I wouldn’t bother
You can do like gar gar rup er rup i guess
But it’s not something I’d be thinking about
Just send er whenever
pseudo hamlet
Oki!
blissful cosmos
I feel like I just don’t have energy in single target
balmy condor
that's by design
blissful cosmos
Is it normal to always have o energy
prisma monolithBOT
Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back
- If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
- Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
- Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
- With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use
hoary remnant
Is it normal to always have o energy
dont spam that much
blissful cosmos
With the new build in beat I can’t chain evenoms like we use to in my mythic plus build
Beta
I have 0 energy barely able to play the game
I’ll be lucky if I can evenoms like 3 times during king and
Bane
If I want to pool I need to tab out
Cause of how long it takes
blissful cosmos
No
Should I just not hit my moves at let sanguine blades do damage until my cooldowns
balmy condor
Should I just not hit my moves at let sanguine blades do damage until my cooldow...
no, you play for envenom uptime
blissful cosmos
Alright so I really got to pool a lot
blissful cosmos
So chaining evenoms is still more important even with the new 4 set on beta
We still play the same way?
balmy condor
rapid injection takes over
but you don't play the same way on beta
you play for max uptime
not max chain
so you won't be going above 50% without envenom up
right now you'd pool back up to like 80-85%
blissful cosmos
What’s the difference between chaining and max uptime
Evenom when it actually drops the buff?
balmy condor
well if you're chaining like you are now, you're trying to get the longest chain possible before resetting it and going back up to max and then getting a long chain again
playing for uptime is just ignoring energy for the most part to keep the buff up
envenom pandemics, so you still should be casting envenom during envenom in most cases
but you're not taking the big break between chains
not that any of this really matters, pooling both on live and beta is like a 1% minmax
blissful cosmos
I still want to actually wait to evenoms buffs is about to drop to evenom again tho right
balmy condor
np
shell kraken
Well for me, I ramped up my dmg and energy alot by trying harder to spread rupture and garrote now than before.
Leading to delaying DM/KB abit, but then getting more value out of it.
Just feels this way atleast
balmy condor
idk exactly what that means but sounds good
that's what we've been doing for the last year
midnight atlas
how does bone spike work with IC? does it put a bone spike on ruptures spread with IC?
or just main target?
balmy condor
all ruptures
including spread by IC
so in aoe
you rup once
it uses all 3 charges
and gives 6cp
hoary remnant
and gives 6cp
This is the best qol imo for aoe opener. Its a godsend
When it first happend on beta it was like magic
balmy condor
yeh bone spike is banger
clear socket
my class is rogue lvl 11 does anyone know when i can use my swords
balmy condor
never
assassination requires 2 daggers
if you want to use your swords you'd have to spec outlaw
clear socket
what is better
balmy condor
they're both good
clear socket
what is the difference?
blissful cosmos
do we pool before kingsbane or just let our teas give us enerygy during it
balmy condor
do we pool before kingsbane or just let our teas give us enerygy during it
1 tea is generally enough
blissful cosmos
nice
clear socket
how do i spec outlaw?
runic prairie
press n and click outlaw
runic prairie
bruh
steel ridge
lmao
runic prairie
you're playing classic
clear socket
uhm
runic prairie
this is for retail haha
balmy condor
there's classic discords in #classic-discussion
normal mist
Too many different modes at the same time
midnight atlas
in classic you need to train swords, it costs 10 silver in stormwind
dapper cradle
clear socket
why
slim hamlet
Anyone knows if the undead racial still pulls you out of stealth randomly?
oblique jackal
Quick question,
Has realz ever stated what his design phisolophy was for the class?
normal mist
His?
I believe what you meant was if the dev team has ever stated what their design philosophy was
And other than in 10.2, idk
quaint spindle
To have as little people play it is possible
quaint spindle
I know I’m funny
normal mist
royal lantern
I know I’m funny
hi funny
slim hamlet
we're dad
cyan mist
how does improved garrote work ? Do i have the improved garrote for 6 seconds after stealth , or does only the first garrote out of stealth count towards the improved version now ?
spice surge
You have it for 6 seconds after stealth
So any garrote applied during those 6 seconds will be empowered
cyan mist
why isn't the recomended opener not
garrote garrote Rupture ER S & D ? instead of
garrote ER Rupture Mutilate S & D ?
balmy condor
because it's not worth the extra gcd to garrote a second time
cyan mist
k does that count under kingsbane vanish reset as well ?
when garrote has 6 sec
vanish > garrote > Garrote ? instead of
Vanish >garrote > ER ?
spice surge
I dont understand why you would want to garrote twice in a row
balmy condor
it's not worth the extra gcd
you're getting 5 extra seconds of garrote on that GCD
it's really bad
spice surge
If anything you'd do it at the end of imp garrote, but its not worth it
austere plaza
wonder when the rogue dev is gonna see the light and remove the stealth requirments from assasination deathstalker and IS
primal jolt
to be fair you can just die, loose aggro and restealth
implying you dont have vanish
balmy condor
wonder when the rogue community is gonna see the light and realize they can survive without stealthing
spice surge
wonder when the rogue community is gonna see the light and realize they can surv...
Buff vicious venoms so we can spec out of imp garrote 
spice surge
Year of the poison
balmy condor
might happen
royal lantern
honestly if they keep buffing the mut buff on deathstalker
where did we went wrong
what was the point where the timeline split happend
balmy condor
idk but I'd like to go back to the timeline where people didnt see 2 talents on the tree that say stealth
and then lose their shit
royal lantern
idk but I'd like to go back to the timeline where people didnt see 2 talents on ...
you act as if we needed them for people to say that
"outlaw doesnt need stealth, thats why its strong in m+"
people during SL
when outlaw was the spec that had the most benefits from stealth
slim hamlet
wonder when the rogue community is gonna see the light and realize they can surv...
I aint no priest or paladin lil bro
bleak ledge
Never VV
spice surge
Works with caustic atleast, not that its overly relevant but hey
keen remnant
rupture works with echo?
spice surge
Yes
brazen oasis
i know its beta sims and its not accurate yet but what would possibly the reason to delay imp. garrote to use it as 8th global after DM instead of 3rd while playing Fatebound? or vise versa.
spice surge
I dont think vanish is ready before that point
So technically the DM could be delayed for it if you wouldnt miss a cast
balmy condor
I have a fix for that locally to vanish gar dm
but beta sims yeh
don't look at it for rotation
just dumb
brazen oasis
i guess
balmy condor
looking at live sims for rotation is misleading enough without anything else
brazen oasis
just wondering what would change with the hero talents
brazen oasis
yeah, thought there would be more to it smh
brazen oasis
kinda weird
balmy condor
is what it is
brazen oasis
i would understand all the passive talents if we would also have a complete overhaul of talent trees
balmy condor
assassination is the spec where you can just kinda smash your face into the keyboard 10-15% of the time and it's completely fine
cold blood just wants to be on cooldown
doesn't care if it's before a finisher, after a finisher, during shiv
just on cooldown
deathstalker is just ambush first gcd of a fight, and then finish on 7 when you have the capstone ggwp
biggest APL changes we've done all of beta has been ripping dance out of the sim
balmy condor
even the pooling conditionals are whatever
doesn't want to stay above 50% cause it loses envenom uptime
but doesn't want to stay under 50% because it's hitting 100% envenom uptime
we're right back to vault assa with 100% envenom uptime
it's pretty incredible how they can't manage to keep envenom uptime down
the envenom uptime being so high was a big part of why the 10.2 rework went down
they attacked it from like 3 different angles
brazen oasis
makes you wonder if they even know what interactions happening between their talents
or reworks
or changes
idk
balmy condor
they definitely do
brazen oasis
then they dont care
balmy condor
wouldn't even say that
if some project manager higher up says X is a priority then there's just no resources for it
is what it is
common in programming teams
thorn fjord
In envenom we trust
brazen oasis
even so, there has to be someone thinking about "clear the witnesses" talent for example and thinking its good to have talented in ST since there is no choice node. and its either not used is ST or it is and makes it feel bad to us FoK in ST
balmy condor
yeh deathstalker was just really rushed
lyric crater
xpac being release date been rush should been augs or nov but that just me
spice surge
where we're at now is decent for like week 2 beta
Do you know what embellishments are the best whispyr? no? Well neither do i because like half of them arent implemented yet 
Half probably an exaggeration, but a lot of them arent
brazen oasis
wasnt there also a time where they said they wanted to be more open about their design philosophy etc.? that went on for like 2 season's? maybe only one and they went silence again
spice surge
Ye they want to be more open
But everytime they do people yell at them to kill themselves when something doesnt go as the community as expected
So then they go back into being more covert
and then the cycle begins a new
brazen oasis
kek
idk, i liked it a lot to have them explaining their thoughts behind it even if i disliked the idea or would've wished for something different - but yeah, humans are shit so no wonder that happend
spice spire
you can say outlaw rogues
I’d never call them people
subtle kiln
careful you'll magically summon Zac
spice surge
Can always just mention the talent above recuperator
subtle kiln
damnit i need ronkley to upload new emote
balmy condor
if I had a nickel for every time an outlaw rogue complained about the talent that must not be named
I wouldn't be rich
but I would be pretty fucking annoyed with how many nickels I would have to carry around
haughty flicker
lmao
subtle kiln
So we did heroic clears this week to gear people swapping around for leveling. 10 minutes into raid the over comms the discussion of how shit rogue is (now on a FDK).
“That channel just talks about FF14 fixing rogue”
silk bane
but I would be pretty fucking annoyed with how many nickels I would have to carr...
i could buy a nice steak prob
subtle kiln
thanks for ruining it
balmy condor
assassination channel try to not mention outlaws for 1 day challenge: [impossibl...
rather laugh at bozos than cry over our own issues man
worldly sail
in other news i went to get azerite pieces for a speed set and they broke them in prepatch, you can't pick any of the traits
subtle kiln
it took the bozos to unite dagger rogues
worldly sail
digital kettle
!plater
balmy condor
!wa
digital kettle
!nameplates
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
digital kettle
thanks
digital kettle
dance.
silk bane
digital kettle
!wa
what exactly is this "pooling practice tool" ? Are there any video or showcase of this?
balmy condor
its a very basic weakaura that shows you when to pool/what you're casting
but it's gonna be useless in 3 weeks
so
dw bout it
digital kettle
alright 🙂
long island
its a very basic weakaura that shows you when to pool/what you're casting
what does pooling mean
balmy condor
!pooling
prisma monolithBOT
Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back
- If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
- Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
- Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
- With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use
long island
dam
balmy condor
basically just an overarching term for the main thing we do out of cooldowns after the rework in s3
spice surge
It means to "pool" your resources (mostly energy) for another time by not using it right now, despite the fact that you could use it
tall jay
We don’t pool no more in tww? Sweet! One less thing for my old man brain 🧠 to remember
tall jay
Purrrrfect
tall jay
As long as we have the envenom buff up it’s Gucci
balmy condor
yeh pretty much
tall jay
Roger
past forum
So we tea during shiv if it won’t overcap energy, I get that. Do we still normally use both shivs in kb? I saw the note in the guide about being able to flex shiv usage somewhat in aoe, was just curious about st.
limber lion
In ST you always double Shiv with KB, yes
It's the easiest way to go about everything
With single Shiv it gets a bit tricky, if that ever beats double Shiv
slate scaffold
Good to know b/c I just hold both charges for KB window in both ST and AoE lol
Was a bit worried I was doing it wrong
limber lion
In AoE it's a bit different because mobs might die faster
So you won't necessarily get the full benefit of the KB
So using Shiv in AoE with AP to buff up all the bleeds and whatnot is also fine
Most important thing is basically to always have one Shiv for the last bit of KB
slate scaffold
Ahh okay it depends on the key level on whether they’ll live long enough to actually get the benefit of shiv on KB
Dat make sense
slate crown
Shiv being a 30sec cd, and it lasts 8 seconds, means you don't even need to enter KB with 2 charges up right away, if your second charge has 8 seconds left on the cooldown you're still safe to double shiv in it
so like, if the current pack will die before your KB goes out and you decide to not KB for the remainder of the pull and there's a long travel time to the next pull
Shiv for aoe bleeds is fine
past forum
So do we tea with EVERY shiv, assuming we can use the energy? Or just once per kb
limber lion
Those are the only 2 conditions
Shiv and -100 energy
You can technically use all 3 teas immediately
if you can burn through the energy fast enough
balmy condor
You can technically use all 3 teas immediately
well technically no more than 2
cause at that point you're wasting the mastery uptime
but yeh
limber lion
Yeah, technically 3 conditions with one being !buff.thistle_tea.up
You probably won't eat up the energy before the buff drops though
But anything is possible
past forum
The possibilities are endless
I understand that these usage conditions are pretty straightforward but for me personally it’s gonna take time psychologically dismantling the KB launch sequence from s3
steep gust
In aoe, assuming mobs live long enough, do we need to manually apply garrote and rupture on multiple targets? Or are we just prio a target?
balmy condor
you should bleed until you have energy and then prio a target
sturdy path
balmy condor
depends on too many factors
all the builds are similar
it's just what parts of the kit do damage vs others
tawny junco
What if the mobs are still alive, the garrotes run off and you don’t have vanish ?
Do you just garrote a different mob every time it goes off cooldown?
normal mist
yes
static glacier
Do you just garrote a different mob every time it goes off cooldown?
depends on how many bleeds you already have out for energy economy, how long target will live for
I do send gar on cd if the target won't die and I dont have enough bleeds out to be gcd capped
balmy condor
yeh
rup is your primary energy source
but if you have to garrote for energy you have to garrote for energy
tawny junco
🫡
slim pebble
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater
Pooling Practice Tool
vernal hatch
is it a bug that when you have both strategem talents, the tooltips dont update to display the 7th cp's value?
runic hinge
yes
vernal hatch
ig its known then thx
spice lagoon
When are they adding the buffs to rogues ?
balmy condor
What buffs exactly
spice lagoon
Look it up on wow head they got a list of buffs they are adding to rogue I’m not sure if it’s 100% accurate
balmy condor
I mean I am wowhead
haughty flicker
wow
runic hinge
balmy condor
But there’s no upcoming buffs that I know of
So I’m confused what you’re referencing
haughty flicker
whispyr channeling his inner palpatine
slate crown
I mean I am wowhead
Mr wowhead can you make your website's ads less intrusive when viewing on a mobile device?
slate crown
haughty flicker
balmy condor
Devs are actually working on fixing mobile but idk when that’s gonna be done
slate crown
nice
runic hinge
Do you think they'll ever make a wowhead app?
balmy condor
Doubtful
runic hinge
Damn
austere herald
!pooling
prisma monolithBOT
Read About Pooling
Video
TLDR:```- Outside of Cooldowns, you want to wait until your envenom is in pandemic/around 1 second in order to proc tier. This is the core concept of "chaining", where you clip envenoms back to back
- If it's getting uncomfortable to chain, or you have to let envenom drop, pool back up to around 80% energy, and then start another chain
- Always wait to envenom, never wait to mutilate/ambush. You want to generate your combo points as soon as possible, and then evaluate whether you should pool or use a finisher
- Without 4 piece, chaining envenoms has no benefit and you can try to be above 50% energy for sanguine
- With 4 piece, the chain takes priority over sanguine and you would play around the tier, not sanguine```The reason we do this is to maximize uptimes and tier procs which is a more efficient energy use
balmy condor
Damn
I mean it would be a lot of work for an insanely niche use
How many people are pulling up wowhead on their phone so often that they need an app for it
At most it’s just reading news
So
runic hinge
Me
balmy condor
tawny junco
I’m having problems with energy in my+ with bleed build, feelsbad
balmy condor
Bleed more
balmy condor
Should’ve bleeded more earlier
If you can bleed 1 target you can bleed 2 and if you bleed 2 you have enough
Amen
meager island
I’m very new to assa rogue.. so please bare with my noobness.. but in m+ do you try to bleed as many as you can? Or focus one mob down and then onto the next etc.
runic hinge
theyre the hero class
rotund oak
all the time
rotund oak
srsly this is disgusting man
desert cove
while we get to play around in the dirt
proven jasper
Golden child
runic hinge
they just got a rework in s2 when aug released but somehow they also get the most work for the new expansion too
desert cove
a warrior in my guild tried to argue that the reason why rogue didn't get much change for tww was b/c of the s3 rework
but like
all I have to do is point at mage
serene mason
they just got a rework in s2 when aug released but somehow they also get the mos...
no rework happened at the same time rogues got their rwork
serene mason
all I have to do is point at mage
or spriest or warlock
rotund oak
all I have to do is point at mage
tell him to remove his plate helm
runic hinge
Don't gaslight me
rotund oak
too heavy to think
desert cove
oh most people in my guild can't stand this guy, we just haven't found a good enough replacement yet
he's one of the ones who always talks a big game but can almost never back it up
runic hinge
no rework happened at the same time rogues got their rwork
I'm old but i don't have dementia yet
balmy condor
I’m very new to assa rogue.. so please bare with my noobness.. but in m+ do you ...
Bleed until you have energy and are capped on scent if you’re talented into it, at that point just play for caustic
royal lantern
no rework happened at the same time rogues got their rwork
paladin got a huge rework, and got a bible of updates during the alpha/beta aswell
and like, the paladin rework was actually a rework
called the rogue stuff "rework" is allready highly exegerating it
willow rapids
in 11.2 they'll finish the rework started in 10.2 for rogue
desert cove
try next xpac buddy
desert cove
someone has to be the rogue in the team
royal lantern
just be the mage
found the blizz higher up
desert cove
rotund oak
found the blizz higher up
idk man ive came back from work,checked out for updates and there it is again,alongside some insanely cringe sim stuff from mage discord
idk what they are cooking
royal lantern
idk what they are cooking
who?
haughty flicker
They
spice surge
I am they, i have done the cooking
royal lantern
I am they, i have done the cooking
what did you cook
balmy condor
Vicious venoms
royal lantern
Vicious venoms
thats when im cooking
balmy condor
No like actually that’s what he’s cooking
spice surge
I cooked a stir fry earlier too
royal lantern
No like actually that’s what he’s cooking
im asking again:
when did we went into the wrong timeline
runic hinge
Harambe
spice surge
Ive put the vicious venoms in a jar, now we just wait for it to ferment and then we can possibly use it later
balmy condor
Vicious venom moonshine
runic hinge
Viscious venom and doomblade = big mutilate
balmy condor
No because they’re separate
balmy condor
I mean fair enough
runic hinge
willow rapids
is that what the tea is actually?
willow rapids
ye at least they're upping that as well
balmy condor
^ Really good
Disagree
normal mist
I disagree with you disagreeing
spice surge
is that what the tea is actually?
It doesnt seem better for now, but if they fix bugs it could be
balmy condor
Just means you’re gonna craft all your fucking gear again
Can’t wait to craft half my gear and then mythic raid for nothing
spice surge
I'd prefer 4/6 for that reason as well, but its
balmy condor
Cause my bis trinket is from delve
normal mist
Depending on how cool the dungeons are for non mythic raiders, that might be either enjoyable or really bad xD
spice surge
Cause my bis trinket is from delve
Is it still? It got changed
balmy condor
Pretty sure yeah
spice surge
Havent checked for assa but it aint for sub
haughty flicker
Cast times yay
spice surge
I'd imagine its the grim batol trinket for assa too, but maybe im wrong
runic hinge
Kinda seems really good
balmy condor
I'd imagine its the grim batol trinket for assa too, but maybe im wrong
All stats good, agi+haste passive good, 20 second good
It’s just puzzle box but no DR
spice surge
Ye maybe the -13 ilvls isnt enough
fleet pagoda
was there a main stat trink with on-use main stat all DF?
sharp viper
It’s just puzzle box but no DR
and on a better cd
balmy condor
and on a better cd
I’m talking season 1 puzzle box when it was actually good
Comparing a trinket to season 4 puzzle box would be an insult
sharp viper
wasn't it always 3 min cd? i remember playing puzzle box in s1 assa
fleet pagoda
not a single trinket in all of DF raids/dungeons for any role/spec had main stat + on use main stat. kinda jarring to see this trinket after that lol
balmy condor
wasn't it always 3 min cd? i remember playing puzzle box in s1 assa
No, it was 2 min
sharp viper
along with 
balmy condor
Lined up with deathmark
They nerfed it to 3 min 30 seconds cause unholy dk was going bananas
sharp viper
They nerfed it to 3 min 30 seconds cause unholy dk was going bananas
yeah but that was only for unholy dk, for everyone else it got down to 3 min?
balmy condor
Yes
sharp viper
that delve trinket sounds very powerful for all 2 min cd specs