assassination

[void mesa]

I think for me it was just the "what is going on, lets figure it out" with friends that was cool

[gusty mirage]

is gonna brick SO many keys

[void mesa]

GAUNTLET WAS DOPE

but yeah no

[gusty mirage]

yeah until you get hit with that frontal that you weren't in but you were because of the way movement works in wow

[void mesa]

To me that was a laidback, yet challenging experience? More than a lets time it

I cant imagine trying to time megadungeon heck that

[gusty mirage]

yeah if the "leak" list of s3 dungeons are accurate

I'm good on m+ next season

lol

[void mesa]

👀

wait just realized

will there be no DF dungeons..? or reruns of some?

[gusty mirage]

the megadungo

[void mesa]

First actual expansion since WoD im doing endgame so

[gusty mirage]

will be the DF ones

[void mesa]

wait no

youre kidding

[gusty mirage]

[void mesa]

thats not the way it works

[ebon notch]

just no jumping

ezpz

[gusty mirage]

that's 100% gonna be a thing

[deft flicker]

That is exactly how it works

[gusty mirage]

and it's gonna be overtuned to shit like tazavesh was

lmao

[void mesa]

im not doing m+ next tier I guess x d

[deft flicker]

Fourth expansion in a row

[void mesa]

gonna get AotC and bail the fuck out

fuck trying to time mega with pugs holy shit

[deft flicker]

It’s usually split in halves for m+

[slow needle]

They will nerf it into a shallow grave.

Probably in 10.1.7 to start with as they split it for hc.

[void mesa]

So would it be like, 2 dungeons = megadungeon and 6 others from past expansions?

[deft flicker]

Yep

According to the leak, at least

[void mesa]

hmmm

maybe ksm gonna be fine without mega 🙃

[deft flicker]

[royal lantern]

man

the undead proto drakes before you fight the galakrond slime

that deal insane aoe group dmg every 1,5 seconds

will totally not make the keys impossible in the first 2 weeks until nerfed

and the slime boss itself

cant wait for the iceprison to have like 6million hp, and you need to break it in 5seconds cus the fire breath is comming

[subtle kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/нестер-john-travolta-gif-17988492

me trying to ID headwear

[agile osprey]

[void mesa]

Also, random question but am I the only one who enjoyed the mega bosses? Without thinking of M+ of course

[keen spruce]

[agile osprey]

Tuesday reset bb. And I still need dagger too

But if we got 3 rogues in the group it would increase the chances of someone being happy right?

[royal lantern]

by themself allright

the problem is that m+ is where you will do them multiple times 🙂

[void mesa]

Nah
Just skip them in M+ ezfix

(but yes, now that I've been made aware they will be in M+, Im starting to see most of the bosses as problematic)

[vestal wren]

could do the mega dungeon (first 2 bosses) and hope for a drop

[keen spruce]

I thought you already got it

[agile osprey]

Nope only the simbait trinket

[keen spruce]

[clever sapphire]

I enjoyed that dungeon so much, i never went in there after the 3rd boss

[void mesa]

You missed the great Morchie fight which resets all your dots every 30 sec

[royal lantern]

i mean, the dot resets are not that bad cus its happening more or less on the same timer when you would re-applying them anyway

its more on the "its annoying, why is it a thing" scale

[void mesa]

I mean, once you lose the tempo and you start getting mistimed on it

And you see half a DM go to waste

[royal lantern]

main problem imo with morchie is that the fight is WAY to movment heavy, you have 0 uptime

running around looking for the right boss, hide behind her, run behind trap with your clone, hit 3 seconds, now need to run behind her again, and now new trap, then hide again etc.....

[quiet oar]

Yeah

Boss abilities should be every 45 second

And no every 20

Or every 30 second she does mirror images or fixate mobs

[void mesa]

As a rogue with shadowstep and sprint, I was like okay maybe

Then on mage, it was sketch but doable with shimmer/alter

Then I saw my spriest crying

[quiet oar]

Just have a dk

[keen spruce]

morchie isn't that much movement once people figure out the fight

it's just pure chaos when a few people don't know what's goin on

[void mesa]

wait, shes not grabeable is she..??

[quiet oar]

No

But the fixate enemies

[void mesa]

Ah

Ahhhhhh

[quiet oar]

You can just help your friends

Its easy

[void mesa]

Pick em up into the timetrap

brains

We used mage in a few run for frost nova to give everyone time to line

and I've been blinding/kidney shotting

[keen spruce]

i mean your clone respawns in the last place you left it

so you can just pre position to a new trap

but frost nova on the first set gives time for more traps to spawn which is nice

[void mesa]

Theres one overlap I remember where theres like 1 trap and all the adds are up

And that was the chaos one that desyncd the whole fight

[keen spruce]

yeah normally if you use one AoE cc

early

it'll give you a good enough bank of traps

[void mesa]

Just ring of frost and vibe

[keen spruce]

the first one is just easiest cuz you can bait them to all spawn in one pile

[sweet dawn]

When I've done it we've just said to the tank to not trap his copy

[void mesa]

but time traps arent baitable right..? They just spawn randomly?

[sweet dawn]

Then everyone gets a trap

[keen spruce]

traps just scatter around yeah

normally the tank can handle theirs for quite a while but they do a lotta damage

[void mesa]

They really hurt yeah

wait

if you cc them with poly/freeze trap/blind

[keen spruce]

it says 25k per second in the dungeon journal

[void mesa]

do they not respawn and just stay stuck?

[keen spruce]

but it feels higher

[void mesa]

adds were hitting for like 40% of hp i feel like

[keen spruce]

i think they also melee

the 25k is just the pulsing circle around them

but yeah i think they actually punch you too for a lot more

[void mesa]

i didnt even know about circle. I know they do raid wide when trapped + punch

[keen spruce]

it's the little 5yd circle around them

[void mesa]

ahhhh

[keen spruce]

basically u just take ticking damage if you're close to them

but if you're that close you're already getting beat to death

idk if the new cast of familiar faces breaks cc on them tbh

[sweet dawn]

Yeah I think it does

That's how the fight is meant to be right? She casts familiar faces and they break out?

[keen spruce]

yeah that would be the expected behavior

but who knows

[void mesa]

Well, if they break out from player-cc on the cast, you could save traps

But also, traps would hinder your free room/mobility

[keen spruce]

I can imagine

that high tyrannical morchie

will be an absolute nightmare

[void mesa]

Tyranical sandstorm guy with speed up zones

Gonna be clown show

Also fort mega is gonna be paaaaaaaaain

[sweet dawn]

The part where you have to clear the sand by killing the mobs

the draon and double golden bois at the end

yummy fort mobs

[keen spruce]

even those first couple of packs

with the timeslice

that one shots tanks if it's not stopped

the dorito dust area on high fort is going to be miserable

[gusty mirage]

but then I can't watch their clones dance on their dead bodies

[void mesa]

Or the undead dragons before slimey galakrond

[quiet oar]

Thats true

[void mesa]

Fuck this is really gonna suck all the way

[quiet oar]

But on the other hand

[void mesa]

6 dungeon io gang

[quiet oar]

You dont have to finish the boss yourself

[gusty mirage]

nah you just take a month off

and wait for them to finish tuning everything

[void mesa]

Oxi really knows best

[gusty mirage]

one of my buddies did that

now we're getting him portals and face rolling 20s

lol

[void mesa]

Im on the line for portals and groups are griefing me

But KSM means nothing to me anymore so I need KSH and portals ;_;

[gusty mirage]

first week vibes @ebon notch

[royal lantern]

m+ circle is always the same

only do the absolute minimum for weekly vault

wait 2 months so things are actually not totall shit

still only do the absolute minimum cus its m+ and stuff is stale as hell after 2 weeks allready

[gusty mirage]

I didn't get IO for that dungeon

I can't imagine why

[royal lantern]

skill issue imo

should have just timed it

[gusty mirage]

we were only over by a smol bit

[ebon notch]

i found a vod from legion

we were cheating

it was my own vod

[royal lantern]

like, just dodge the naraxas poison dot oxi

man

[gusty mirage]

[swift magnet]

healer problem

[gusty mirage]

our healer got stoned by the crowd

also whoever decided week 1 of every season should be tyran

is actually an asshole

[royal lantern]

its so you can see some trashpacks on tyranicall and allready think "OH MY GOD HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KILL THEM NEXT WEEK???? THAT GROUP AOE ALLREADY DOES 60% OF MY HP EACH TICK"

[void mesa]

...111 deaths. Whyyyy

[gusty mirage]

week 1 was a magical time

[frozen iris]

Joined an m+ 18 nethalrus last night. First words spoken were “ Wait. Your assassination?”

[void mesa]

Im sad and happy I never did the whole week 1 vault shit

On the one hand, id love having big gear early

But also the pain and suffering

[swift magnet]

and last words too I bet

[subtle tundra]

Well I'm pretty sure assa is the worst dps spec out of all specs

So I don't blame ppl

[royal lantern]

it is really really low yeha

[subtle tundra]

Can't even defend it

[gusty mirage]

yeah but it's also a +18

[void mesa]

Were within bottom 5 dps spec for m+ for sure

[gusty mirage]

so like who gives a fuck

[swift magnet]

it wasn't bad this season but first season of DF...man

[subtle tundra]

Ppl who got to a 18 key

[gusty mirage]

idk when I run 17s I invite whoever

idgaf

[subtle tundra]

Yea cause you're good at the game

Ppl be progging 18s

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

xXxSHadöWReÄperxXx the FotM shadow priest with 1,4k rio that never did a key above +17 does, because otherwhise he cant time keys

[subtle tundra]

[frozen iris]

Luckily not. I just said I don’t like playing any of the others specs and they told me I was playing on hard mode. But I was like oh fucking great I’m gonna get kicked.

[swift magnet]

I was invited in a 16 then insta kicked on my Evo because I was Deva and not Aug

[gusty mirage]

I invite people with low io for fun

[gusty mirage]

[void mesa]

Can you invite me pls

[gusty mirage]

yeah if you ever catch oxipal-area 52 listing a key

[void mesa]

Stuck between 2.3 and 2.4

[gusty mirage]

I'll take you

[frozen iris]

I sincerely believe I am only picked by groups because I’m not the meta

[gusty mirage]

I've taken an 1100 io dps over a 2600 io person

[swift magnet]

fitting gif lol

[gusty mirage]

and they're usually not the best players but they're super cool and try their hardest

[void mesa]

Maybe thats what I need to filter with

[agile osprey]

17s are a vibe, I mostly just care about finding a halfway decent looking tank so they at least have a route

[frozen iris]

I started late in the season so yesterday I started from 1000 io and got too 2200.

[gusty mirage]

don't invite my tank

my routes are W key

[spice spire]

Amen brother

Just pull

145% bh route? Np

[gusty mirage]

yo hear me out @spice spire

VP

instead of the death orbs

you pull dragon

thots?

[spice spire]

Pull dragon with assassins?

[gusty mirage]

no shot you manage 145% on BH

[spice spire]

Because I fw that

[gusty mirage]

each trash pack of 18 mobs is like

[spice spire]

I did

[gusty mirage]

3%

the trash count in BH makes no damn sense

[spice spire]

My dps actually pulled the entirety of the areas before the last boss

And I killed the hunter + dogs

And the bear + birds

[gusty mirage]

I got a route for you

[spice spire]

Also they somehow pulled 2 more packs of stealthers

[subtle kiln]

i am not surprised

[spice spire]

Incredible stuff

[keen spruce]

I think there's 260% count in bh

if you pull everything

[gusty mirage]

so here's the plan you ready @spice spire ?

you pull like

EVERYTHING in the first area

right

[spice spire]

I’m ready

Ok

[gusty mirage]

then you do the pulls up to the tree as usual

[keen spruce]

even fish face?

[gusty mirage]

you'll be at like 80%

[keen spruce]

[gusty mirage]

then you soothe and skip stinkface

and you soothe and skip the pack before the bear

[keen spruce]

no one has dared cook up a fish face route yet

[gusty mirage]

and it gets better @spice spire

your mage dies

and releases

and then they just can't get back

so you 4 man the dungeon for the last 20% trash

and then the healer dies

[spice spire]

That’s why you require a lock

For summons

[gusty mirage]

and also gets stuck

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

so you sit there for 10 minutes

waiting for them to figure out how to skip everything without distract

they will inevitably pull something and die

at least 4 times

[spice spire]

Banger

My kinda key

[gusty mirage]

so you go from ez +2ing the BH

to barely +1ing it

[keen spruce]

actually oxi

[gusty mirage]

10/10 experience

[keen spruce]

the whole first area

is 101%

count

[gusty mirage]

not all of it

you dingus

[keen spruce]

[gusty mirage]

but like

almost all of it

also make sure no one kicks the fear

that's how you get to 80%

[keen spruce]

103% excuse me

i missed a boi

[gusty mirage]

yeah you gonna miss people funneling you the dagger too

[keen spruce]

[gusty mirage]

listen man I'm sorry

idk why I'm mean to you

it's just fun

[keen spruce]

fresh new brack route

hot off the press

[gusty mirage]

I did that once

the vdh said he's gonna "mdi pull"

and then died 6 times

and left his own key

[keen spruce]

[swift magnet]

lmao

[gusty mirage]

he was 428 ilvl

pulling like mdi in a +21 BH

can't imagine why that went poorly

I was for it bro

I was doing like 400k dps overall

until he died

and then I died

black powder and sectech go brrrr on like 30 targets

[royal lantern]

where is the "sub is hard in m+ because of 2target rupture" copypasta??

[void mesa]

Ive heard of the copy pasta but never seen it

How is rupture 2t hard for sub..?

Even as a meme i dont see it xd

[vestal wren]

rupture on 2 targets is not hard

the two target rotation is quite a bit diffrent if you min/max compared to single target/aoe

people just took this knowlage and turned it into a meme

sth like

tHe Tw0 TaRgEt RoTaTiOn Is ComPlIcAteD

but instead of this meme format in a copy/pasta

[void mesa]

What happens if I go in sub and ask how to optimize 2T rotation?

Now im really curious

[royal lantern]

Sub is very difficult you see because replicating shadows right, sometimes it hits a target with rupture right, and that’s a massive dps loss cause instead of 2 ruptures you only get 1 and that sucks so you have to position yourself perfectly in every pull for 45 minutes straight and that’s very difficult because also sectec doesn’t get the bonus range from acro and so it’s like 1 character model shorter than your autos which means if you sectec sometimes it won’t hit, or you’ll try to sectec and you’ll be out of range and like that’s a super duper skill ceiling that sub has which makes it honestly the most rich in depth gameplay in the game you can really tell the difference between a good rogue and a bad rogue so like really I think sub is super hard thanks for coming to my Ted talk

[void mesa]

Goddamn

This was way above my expectations

Chuckled/10

[vestal wren]

people will reference the faq or type !two

[void mesa]

That doesnt even seem that hard (the !two)? Isnt it just, you could gb/bp/ss interchangeably, but you still only want one during your sd for dm?

[vestal wren]

it just highlights differences in ability use

no spec in the game is hard

[void mesa]

True

[vestal wren]

there are as memed on, factors like positional requirements or things like secret range

that add details for skill expression

or energy and cooldown management

[void mesa]

I think every class as their own "difficulty/higher ceiling" mechanic/interaction (at least, those ive played)

Where min maxing the last 5% can be kinda difficult while doing mechanics and all

But by itself... wow aint that hard

Like after playing starcraft for so long, idk, when people tell me "X class is super hard mechanically"

[vestal wren]

there is a reason the "i just press buttons" meme exists

[runic hinge]

I’ve watched a fury warrior play. Those dudes just press buttons

[vestal wren]

^ this one

[runic hinge]

[vestal wren]

basically, all the min/max and details you learn become second nature

and you don't think about them anymore

[void mesa]

Yeah

Its just learning them and the why doing it good in different contexts

[vestal wren]

so any spec is "easy" if you play the game enough

[void mesa]

But at some point its just, muscle memory

[vestal wren]

this is all the core of the memes

[void mesa]

Like openers seem complicated at first

Then its preprogrammed and you do it eyes closed

[vestal wren]

i don't rly want to start a discussion what specs are harder/easier

[keen spruce]

this is based

how have i never seen this one

[void mesa]

Theres no real point to that conversation anyways I feel like

Some people will find X or Y harder or easier anyways

[vestal wren]

every spec has some sort of skill expression

[gusty mirage]

except devoker*

fixed that for you

[vestal wren]

what usually differs is how high the baseline is

as much as it is a hot take in this chat

[gusty mirage]

one of our devokers tried telling me it's harder to play than assassination

[void mesa]

Skill floor vs skill ceiling yep

[gusty mirage]

and when he tried playing assassination on his rogue alt

he fumbled the opener for 4 hours straight

[vestal wren]

assassination was always the simple of the 3 specs that ended up performing well even for non experienced players

[gusty mirage]

and assassination is easily the easiest rogue spec in ST

[vestal wren]

ofc we had exceptions to this rule

[vestal wren]

opener is the most discussed thing in the game

[royal lantern]

assa and sub are equal at this point tbh

sub is just so extremely static in DF

[vestal wren]

for most of the time close to no gain in actual output

subtlety has a lot of small optimizations that are not obviouse

[gusty mirage]

I was walking him through it

[vestal wren]

ofc as mentioned above, if you already learned all the small things its "whatever"

[gusty mirage]

for FOUR hours

and he couldn't figure it out

[vestal wren]

haha ^^

[gusty mirage]

and he tried telling me devoker is harder to play

lol

[runic hinge]

Wish you’d talk to me for four hours

[gusty mirage]

then he goes "well I'm saying you couldn't pick up devoker and play perfect the first time"

and then I linked him his logs

and I was like neither can you apparently

[vestal wren]

doing a shitload of log reviews in 10.0.x

did show me that subtlety is everything but easy to learn

[royal lantern]

man sorry but

it feels like the majority of log reviews are for people that didnt read any opener yet

and just press random buttons and then want to know why they parse bad lol

[runic hinge]

They just press buttons

[frozen iris]

Agreed. I don’t even want to try

[vestal wren]

yes, but isn't that my point

[gusty mirage]

yeah I mean it has it's little nuances

but it's pretty straight forward tbh

[vestal wren]

if the rotation is obvious, you would have to correct less mistakes

btw. i don't think subtelty is hard to learn

[keen spruce]

most of the really tragic logs for assas this expac have been fumbling bleed up time and exang fuckery

now it's generally pretty minor stuff

I still see sub logs that are very

[vestal wren]

i also think outlaw wants a diffrent skillset

because it is very spammy and reactive

[keen spruce]

i didn't even look at my own outlaw logs last tier

[royal lantern]

tbh, thats mostly cus sub is the "good" spec rn, so people play it even if they could play w/e they want cus they are bad/they play it when they go rogue cus everyone says its the best

[keen spruce]

idk how to read that shit

[vestal wren]

sub/sin are both very planed

[royal lantern]

ye

outlaw is mostly

can you handle reactive gameplay?

if yes, its easy

if no, its hard

[keen spruce]

outlaw is just wack a mole / ddr

well was

idk what they're doin with that goofy kir stuff now

[vestal wren]

from what i see

sticking to HO

[vestal wren]

yes, but i need to admit that it is hard for me to talk about difficultly when doing ingame testing for bugs/rotation and apl

so can't rly go from my own experience

[keen spruce]

I think just looking at the volume / types of questions from novices

gives a pretty good indication of how intuitive a spec is to pick up

[vestal wren]

one thing i wonder, i am not as active in #assassination as in #subtlety

[keen spruce]

like I would not consider sub nearly as intuitive as assas

[vestal wren]

is macroing thistle tea a thing people do on assassination too

[keen spruce]

nerp

[vestal wren]

its like one of the most common things/misconceptions i see

[royal lantern]

yes no

[keen spruce]

i mean people misuse it quite a bit

but i haven't seen anyone macro it

[royal lantern]

sometimes people think tea is used for the mastery % amp and you always want it for DM and stuff

[keen spruce]

I think if new people can understand pandemic

then assas is fairly easy to pick up

[vestal wren]

i think the tier set makes subtlety a lot harder for no reason

[keen spruce]

sub has a lot more random conditional rules

[royal lantern]

but like, its the same as it is with Sub for ST: 1 specific use on pull, then you use it for energy when you need it for the rest of the fight, and in AoE you CAN use it for dmg cus you have endless resource anyway

[vestal wren]

yes exactly

the use is fairly simple if you understand it

[royal lantern]

its funny cus the tierset is also just "play like you did before, only the opener is SLIGHTLY different with symbols placement, dont use symbols when dance is at ~10seconds" lol

[keen spruce]

well i know a lotta people just macro'd symbols to dance

before this tier

or symbols to other stuff

[vestal wren]

yes but you can waste symbols very easy

the tier set would be better if it just extended existing buffs

[keen spruce]

the symbols usage is fairly specific and has like 2-3 rules aroudn it

[gusty mirage]

yeah you were never supposed to do that

[keen spruce]

i know but they did tho

[gusty mirage]

yeah

we had someone in my old guild that macro'd symbols, tea, and dance to one button

[royal lantern]

agree lol, the random symbols pandemic is weird

like, its not hard

[gusty mirage]

and he REFUSED

[keen spruce]

and like rupture has some new stuff with finality

[gusty mirage]

to not do it

[keen spruce]

then when to gloom vs SS

[royal lantern]

but its 1 thing you just dont know without 3rd party resources

[keen spruce]

when to gloom vs storm

nado can be very daunting for new people

[royal lantern]

man, thats peak people overthinking stuff

[keen spruce]

maximizing globals in dance

[royal lantern]

like, wow players LOVE to do that

[vestal wren]

yes and thats the thing

[royal lantern]

and i never understood why

[gusty mirage]

yeah that's legit all overanalyzing everything

[vestal wren]

a lot of subtety is the same

[gusty mirage]

if you have a decent understanding of sub

you can literally pick up the new shit

in like 10 minutes

[keen spruce]

well yeah but we're talkin about new people

[royal lantern]

acting as if using filler 1 instead of filler2 in 1 GCD is some gigantic difference that will make or break you always seems so weird

[gusty mirage]

https://www.dataforazeroth.com/stats/classes/level70

[vestal wren]

yep

[royal lantern]

sooo... rogue IS lower then Monk you telling me?

[keen spruce]

[gusty mirage]

yep it is now

cause brew is strong

warlock being stupid strong for all of SL and now the beginning of DF

[royal lantern]

and no way that thing is real btw

mage low, lower then shaman/priest/warlock lol

[gusty mirage]

made them leap up

[keen spruce]

we're still the 2nd most unique dps players in +25 keys and up

[gusty mirage]

it's calculated from the blizzard api

how is it not real

[royal lantern]

because i said so

[gusty mirage]

yeah fair enough

and this includes the casuals

who log on

do 3 WQs

and log off

who you'll never see

[keen spruce]

also includes all of the boomkin leather farming bots

[royal lantern]

aka 90% of the playerbase

[vestal wren]

a lot of people rerolled ret

also ret and hpala are insane this season

[gusty mirage]

ret's always been super popular among casuals

[royal lantern]

didnt even reroll

[gusty mirage]

even 18 years ago

[royal lantern]

paladin is ultra popular always

[vestal wren]

DH was iirc the most played usual

[gusty mirage]

I would love to see statistics for mythic raiding

from wcl

[vestal wren]

gender inequality smh

[royal lantern]

high up, but paladin/hunter/warrior/druid always where top played cus thats the classes the casual playerbase loves

[vestal wren]

^ everyone needs to change to female dwarf now

[royal lantern]

and rogue/warlock/monk/priest low cus thats a class fantasy most people dont like

[light warren]

i dont think rogue/monk are fantasy people dont like

[gusty mirage]

if you got CE last tier

you're in the top 2%

of all accounts

[royal lantern]

im in the 0,415% rn

[light warren]

i think its just how the game interprets them

[vestal wren]

think aotc is a better measurement

[royal lantern]

then more people would play them

[light warren]

well for example ww monk in this game i hate

[gusty mirage]

17% for vault 12% for aberrus

[light warren]

but I LOVE monk in diablo

[royal lantern]

hunter is NOT great right now and still 1 of the most played classes

[vestal wren]

thats higher than expected

[light warren]

its how its represented

[gusty mirage]

that also includes achievement hunters though

who have money so they buy carries

[light warren]

rogue i feel like also just barely hits the spot for a fantasy rogue class.

[vestal wren]

i am not even sure if its the class fantasy, rogue is fairly popular usually in other games.
I just think the class is designed to be not appealing

[keen spruce]

i'm honestly still shocked at how low rogue representation is in wow

[royal lantern]

rogue is not even that popular anymore in fantasy in general tbh

[keen spruce]

cuz like they were extremely popular in vanilla

[royal lantern]

like

[keen spruce]

and bc

[royal lantern]

in most fantasy/RPG settings, people want to be a knight in armor

[gusty mirage]

they weren't though

that's just confirmation bias on our end

[keen spruce]

i think part of it is the historically very cringe levelling experience

[vestal wren]

almost every dnd group has at least 1 rogue in it

[royal lantern]

even in DnD rogue is 1 of the lower played classes

[gusty mirage]

rogue has historically been one of the lowest played classes in wow

warlock used to be less popular

bottom 3 were always rogue, monk, warlock

[vestal wren]

the hardcore dnd playerbase does not play rogue because it is numerical not that impressive

[light warren]

this is not a fact

rogue is actually one of the more popular dnd classes

and druid being lower in dnd

[royal lantern]

thats cus animal shapes are DOGSHIT in 5e holy shit man why

WHY??????????

[keen spruce]

I can't find any data on it

[light warren]

and thats what i mean. its the representation of the class in the game that makes it appealing

[keen spruce]

maybe they just had way more content creators at the time

[light warren]

druid in wow is literally pick ur animal and u are just it

[keen spruce]

i know that rogue levelling was always pretty bad though

probably a big deterent

[light warren]

rogue has one of the most barriers to entry i feel like just because of leveling + the fact that the fantasy of the class is kinda off

sub rogue instead of just cool stealth and shit is for some reason using shadow magic

[keen spruce]

well the class fantasy stuff is more a modern wow problem more than the old xpacs

but yeah it doesn't quite hit the right notes anymore

[vestal wren]

could go with raid statistics, but there isn't a good site for it

[light warren]

he was talking about dnd stats

[vestal wren]

but rogue if its not very good in the dps ranking is usually one of the least played if not least

[keen spruce]

I was not

[vestal wren]

oh

[light warren]

oh

what

[keen spruce]

it's literally a reply message to oxi

[light warren]

mb

[keen spruce]

[vestal wren]

first link
https://primagames.com/tips/most-popular-classes-dungeons-dragons

[light warren]

i am between two things lmao

[vestal wren]

shows the ranger

what would be the wow hunter

to be one of the lowest played

[light warren]

thats for dnd right

[vestal wren]

yes

but i am not sure if the data is any correct

[light warren]

yea again dnd ranger and druid in 5e kinda just play awful and dont hit the spot

[vestal wren]

but at least the lower and make sense

ranger an monk are just numerical not that impressive

and overlap with other classes, so you usually play something else

[royal lantern]

mate

ranger is legit unplayable in 5e

thats why

[light warren]

monk is an odd fantasy that either people love or people just dont enjoy at all

ranger is DOO DOO in 5e

[royal lantern]

5e Ranger is so bad, they made them a entierly new class in BG3 lol

[light warren]

unless u use alternate specs

[royal lantern]

cus its legit not even really salvagable

[light warren]

like gloomstalker

gloomstalker ranger with multiclass rogue can be insane

[vestal wren]

i played a ranger

and i must say, its a bit boring even if you go with a fun subclass

[light warren]

monk is only good at lvl 3 in dnd lmao

[vestal wren]

but i think ranger just shows how the "hunter" spec is not inherntly appealing

but how much implementation/design plays a role

just my opinion, i think rogue is designed to be not appealing

[royal lantern]

gloomstalker is mostly metagaming and multiclassing, which destroyes the concept of class fantasy anyway, and is mostly a memey 1hit kill class that a decent DM can easy make look bad

AND gloomstalker is really new and a effort to make 5e Ranger playable at all

cus holy shit

5e Ranger is an abomination

[vestal wren]

because visual design is very subtle, so combat actions/animations don't give you as good of a feedback

[ebon notch]

i should sell mine

[royal lantern]

legit, copypaste the BG3 Ranger and you fixed it

[gusty mirage]

rmt is against tos

[light warren]

I think BIG draw to ranger in this game is pet collection

[vestal wren]

compare it to DH, you will quickly see a way better visual language and abilities feel epic/impactful due to it

[ebon notch]

uh

i would allegedly

[light warren]

its the one reason i am wanting to play it

[ebon notch]

ingame

legally a joke

[vestal wren]

and if you level your rogue

[light warren]

leveling rogue took me 3x as much as my druid

[vestal wren]

you essentially die every pack you don't pull inividual mobs

while almost all other melees, you just jump into a pack and easy kill everyhting

[light warren]

tbh i hate myself so much i leveled 3 rogues. outlaw and sub to 50 and assassin to 70

[keen spruce]

this was my peak rogue degen years

at the end of bfa

[vestal wren]

and both visual esign AND feedback during earl leveling is what makes you decide for or against a class

[keen spruce]

gettin ready to be covenant proof

[ebon notch]

ah so this is the most sane rogue player

[light warren]

true, i usually play till 25 for most and then decide to continue

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

"level more rogues"

[gusty mirage]

ooji

[light warren]

i will probably end up leveling 1 of every class

[gusty mirage]

we're long lost cousins

[vestal wren]

lvl 120

[light warren]

the issue is my server is kinda dogshit and dont know if its worth the time

[vestal wren]

[gusty mirage]

cross realm trading is a thing now

so it kinda opens up everything

[light warren]

guilds

[gusty mirage]

you could level the alts on a "better" server

and still send them stuff

[light warren]

yea, i just gotta decide if i wanna switch

[gusty mirage]

the fact that guilds are server specific still

is kinda weirdge

[light warren]

i am on dalaran rn

[ebon notch]

i dont mind it

the inter-server competition is nice

[gusty mirage]

inter compete deez nuts on your face

[ebon notch]

[keen spruce]

ooji was my legion rogue. they're still sittin their legion leggos

in dalaran

okay do I switch to 3/3 zoldyks now

for nelth

or do i just do dam

[gusty mirage]

are you holding dps in p1

[keen spruce]

yes

we almost had to hold with 19 people

the only throughput barrier we face now is our fuckin roster

meeting the "everyone show up to raid" check has been pretty tight for the last couple of bosses

[royal lantern]

roster Boss is the hardest fight for 90% of guilds man

[amber stream]

Is it necessary to use the agility gem on neck? As raidbots always suggests it (not using lariat)

[keen spruce]

you should use a main stat gem yes

doesn't matter where you put it

[amber stream]

Yea, my question was if it makes any difference where I equip it, but you answered that as well. THanks.

[keen spruce]

i'd just always put it in the least likely slot that will be replaced

[keen spruce]

you drop SS for 3/3z right?

[gusty mirage]

if you're holding dps anyway

might as well

[keen spruce]

my 2nd deathmark isn't until the 2nd add in p2

we definitely holdin

[gusty mirage]

you just send it

in p1

wdym hold until 2nd add

you're missing an entire cast

[keen spruce]

we're stopping damage so early in p1

eh fk it other people can stop more

[jovial verge]

Folks I just want people to know that I tried sub for like 4 pulls to see if it would feel better

we randomly killed the boss

I parsed a 1

(Echo)

[light warren]

what does that mean

parsed a 1?

1 damage a second

[keen spruce]

bottom 1%

[light warren]

oh

[keen spruce]

of sub rogues

[light warren]

LOL

[jovial verge]

literally

never aw that before

[keen spruce]

based

[light warren]

bro my shit is like bottom 19%

[jovial verge]

I messed up at the start

[keen spruce]

now when your RL tells you to play sub on sark

you can say "you sure?

"

[jovial verge]

I am out for sark hehe

[keen spruce]

[light warren]

true

[jovial verge]

we have two rogues and we are struggling as is

so I said I'd step out

[light warren]

thats a god log for anyone thats asks u too play sub

[jovial verge]

TRUE

tbf that was my first mythic fight - only started raiding* this tier and that was my first on mythic difficulty

got so many excuses prepared

[light warren]

i mean the only excuse is u are rogue

[keen spruce]

okay now we're pushing the boss before the 5th fire puddle

i think i just need to give up the cast

[frozen iris]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[royal lantern]

"shit sophic uptime, no trinkets, got hit by mechanics and had low uptime cus of it, i play for progress not for parses"

chose 1 of those

[jovial verge]

This is the kind of content we should put into the FAQ

[sudden canyon]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[sudden canyon]

havent played since 10.0.5, is AP still weak?

[drifting cloud]

yes

[clever sapphire]

its harder to get exactly a 1 than getting a 100, change my mind

[jovial verge]

first time I have seen it

ama

[void mesa]

Were you dead?

[jovial verge]

Nope

[void mesa]

holy shit

Will you ever play sub again? x)

[jovial verge]

I did get my portals changed, and not wanting to grief people because the boss was breaking our back instead of dpsing, I just made sure I was at the right portal

so I was bascially dead during p3

[jovial verge]

probably not xd

[sudden canyon]

did they buff sepsis? or nerf sbs?

[jovial verge]

They changed/fixed something about Sepsis, can't rememebr what, that made it better

[spice surge]

It was bugged to not work properly with mastery iirc

[jovial verge]

Yeah was my experience on that fight as well

[balmy condor]

Sepsis had a second garrote cast added it the start, and then got fixed to work with mastery

That was way way way back though

10.1 stuff

[keen spruce]

we just had a 14m hp wipe on nelth

our spriest did 20m less boss damage than our surv hunter

and 1m less boss damage than our VDH

[sharp falcon]

more recently, sepsis was also eating blindside procs

so a bunch of a things over time really

[clever sapphire]

how did he manage that? playing with full aoe build or what

[balmy condor]

[clever sapphire]

awh my gawd, im awake to experience 2 gigaminds at once

[balmy condor]

No gigamind

Only giganom

[clever sapphire]

do you have your own server full with whispyr emotes?

[royal lantern]

now this channel has a combined IQ of 9

[clever sapphire]

highest of all the meele classes combined

[keen spruce]

[clever sapphire]

ah wait ranged

[balmy condor]

Yeh

Well

“My own” I guess

It’s public

[clever sapphire]

ye guessed something like that after smeeps sent one too

btw why is TGP so boring, its just a lot of teams playing the same exact class/spec combo

there is 1 group playing enha instead of fire mage

im rooting for them

even though they probably wont win since they dont have a fire mage

[storm forum]

cause the devs decided to overtune all the reworks they made right before TGP

[balmy condor]

Past 27/28 the m+ meta is really warped atm

[storm forum]

forget that

[clever sapphire]

phew good thing highest i go is 18

[storm forum]

even at 22s

[clever sapphire]

bro i did 22s with MY assa rogue

[storm forum]

i dont wanna heal without 2 of Mass Barrier, Augvoker, vamp embrace-type effect

[clever sapphire]

you cant tell me you need that setup for a 22

[storm forum]

you dont need it

but it does make it

so much easier

[clever sapphire]

well ye that setup makes a 22 into an 18

[storm forum]

and like people are giga boosted from those comps

so you dont know who youre getting

[clever sapphire]

aight whispyr i have the tech. Assa rogue probably broken in great push with IC/AP build, since even bossfights have trash pulled in

[runic hinge]

I got 3 portals yesterday without an Aug ama

[storm forum]

grats

why did you make your life so much harder on yourself?

[clever sapphire]

i have a rule set if i create a group, im not inviting any of those 5 meta specs

i couldnt care less about their io or whatever

[balmy condor]

Surely

[clever sapphire]

heal priest? sure, dps druid? sure

[storm forum]

i love healing boomies

[gaunt moat]

Sarkareth Day 4 Report:
Passed phase 3 transition
best attempt 40%

[storm forum]

they just press incarn and I PI them and they pew pew

:proggers:

[quiet oar]

How many tries is that?

We killed him today on Day 7

[gaunt moat]

somewhere around 110 attempts. That's teh number bigwigs shows me.

[gaunt moat]

ohhhh, congrats!!!

[clever sapphire]

so its probably less, since the resets count in there aswell as far as i know

[quiet oar]

We had like 230

[quiet oar]

Thats a good number

How much health did He have when transitioning?

[quiet oar]

Ty!

[gaunt moat]

around 53% i think

[runic hinge]

I’m already playing assassination in keys, making things harder on myself is just what I do I guess

[quiet oar]

Thats a fair amount with probably some deaths and unholy padding?

[gaunt moat]

we had deathsm but we don't have an unholy

[quiet oar]

Nah i mean

Unholy add padding

Sorry poor choice of words

[dusk summit]

Anyone notice a internal CD on stack building on the "dragonfire bomb dispenser"?

[limber lion]

Yes that's how it works

[dusk summit]

aww thats a little poopy, onyl get a stack a second 😦

[pulsar plover]

Do any of you use hekili

[midnight atlas]

no, run away from it

[pulsar plover]

why not

[balmy condor]

because it's really fucking bad

[dusk summit]

^^

[pulsar plover]

I saw ppl on reddit saying they get purple parses just by following hekili

[balmy condor]

they for sure aren't rogues

[pulsar plover]

what about rogues makes hekili really bad?

[balmy condor]

because holy hell the shit that hekili spits out for rogues

is some hot garbage

no clue

I'm not a hekili dev

all I know is rotation helper

and the rotation is terrible

so it doesn't serve its purpose

and is therefore a dogshit addon

[pulsar plover]

ok

[balmy condor]

I've had coaching sessions before

where just telling them to turn off hekili

and doing whatever they think is right

turns into like +20% dps

on the spot

it's that bad

[royal lantern]

otherwhise assa would have a stack in like 10-15seconds lol

dots would make it go crazy

[pure sinew]

Fine for non sin rogues

It’s supposed to copy and paste from the apl

But it’s not a fan of multi dotting and time to death and such

[limber lion]

Literally still our bis trinket by far

[keen spruce]

turns out

in our 2% pull

during p3 lust we were missing

1 power infusion, 1 void eruption, one breath of eons

this isn't what p3 lust is supposed to look like

[void mesa]

I think duck is getting griefed 🙃

[gaunt moat]

what do you mean, that you shouldn't be on top?
you execute at that point

[keen spruce]

I feel like with 3x pi and everyone's CDs

that I should not be on top

but i'm claimin a lust pi

for next week

[gaunt moat]

bro, this was me in our kill where i was silienced 3 times

[royal lantern]

i mean, the warrior and spriest do aswell

[gaunt moat]

sin execute is really really strong with and everything and bloodlust

[royal lantern]

a big part is probs that many dps brains also go full aoe when the adds come instead of cleaving them and still focus the boss

and, well, you play assa, you just stay boss anyway

cus whats aoe lmao

[keen spruce]

we lived first portal

only 2 deaths on 2nd

one was insta brezed

[gaunt moat]

If the adds die too quickly, maybe someone can put points into more ST

[keen spruce]

we're phasing in p1 before the last puddle goes out

if we don't hold damage

like we're all spec'd single target

[gaunt moat]

i mean adds in phase 3

[keen spruce]

yeah i just mean as a throughput reference

we have like infinite damage

[royal lantern]

thats normal

[keen spruce]

I just don't see how we don't kill it before 3rd bang

[royal lantern]

like, any decent team has to hold dps at around the last slam at this point in p1

[keen spruce]

I know

that's not..

context clues

[royal lantern]

[keen spruce]

idk not having a PI or a breath of eons in that p3 lust

is very cringe

[gaunt moat]

Also (if your aug stays alive) you need to tell him to use his cooldowns on you in phase 3

[keen spruce]

I got one ebon might

but i'm yoinking a pi next week

i have a priest in our "not braindead" secret group chat

where like 4 of us complain

[gaunt moat]

I activly don't wanna get PIs, it invalidates logs

[keen spruce]

only if you get too many

[gaunt moat]

as in more than zero

[royal lantern]

how 2 get on the good side of priest players:

when pi comes up, and the warlock/mages again start bitching at eachother who gets it, just talk with the priest in whisp how they suck anyway

like bruh

every single priest is annoyed by Pi lmao

[keen spruce]

I think he's just gonna pi me the whole fight

cuz he doesn't wanna make a 4th macro lol

and damage doesn't matter in the other two phases

[royal lantern]

the only dmg that matters in p2 is dmg on teammates

MC happens->start proccing poisonbomb like crazy

[sage oriole]

i have my PI assigned by our RL

i just press it when the WA pops up

[gaunt moat]

https://tenor.com/view/soprano-get-the-fuck-outta-here-get-out-gif-14394588

[sage oriole]

:)

[keen spruce]

well we normally have 2 warlocks and an UH

but the wizards can't be trusted

and tbh I don't care about optimal targets

i've seen what our optimal targets do

[spice spire]

Unethical duck

[keen spruce]

it's ethical if we kill the boss

I'm ethically ending our suffering on this boss

[gaunt moat]

Oh, so it's ethical to steal money if it's to feed your family??

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/hacksaw-ridge-carry-andrew-garfield-soldier-gif-7906669

[keen spruce]

it's more like stealing flour from your neighbor

to make bread for the neighborhood

[gaunt moat]

You heard it here folks.
Shmeeps is a communist.

[keen spruce]

and I keep extra loafs for myself

[gaunt moat]

That's true communism.

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-our-now-gif-21036569

our PI

[cerulean nest]

I'm ethically receiving Aug buffs on nelth

feels great, hurts no one

[runic hinge]

I think our aug buffing me is stealing all my log dps

[limber lion]

Yeah doesn't really work like that anymore

[gusty mirage]

is your DK afk

[runic hinge]

I know, we were missing a ton of people today and so it was mostly missing raid buffs and also details saying im doing giga damage, feels like hes stealing my log but ya

I get why he's not

[limber lion]

Yeah can't change logs, but would you rather want to sit at the top of the Details meter or the bottom?

[light warren]

damn those openers really help

[limber lion]

I would honestly personally choose the latter one if it meant the log was accurate

[runic hinge]

Definitely felt good being on top all night

[light warren]

being at top is pog

[runic hinge]

Still was top in logs too, just not mega parses if that makes sense

[light warren]

we need more rogues so jeez

[limber lion]

So not everyone logs their keys, especially anything below 15, let alone a 4.

And most people don't grind out low keys, most just push to 15-20 range immediately

[indigo totem]

Pretty sure this is posted somewhere I didn't think to look in, but does shiv have any effect on poisoned edges (aberrus tier)?

[errant viper]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

Rashok is dead. Its finally over.

[storm forum]

grats!

[unreal parcel]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

The two set is nature damage so yes, that will get buffed

[hot blade]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-angry-gif-25976706

Zskarn next.....

[quiet oar]

Is Zskarn still hard?

After Nerfs?

"hard" in terms of Post cheese Zskarn

[strange python]

Yes

[strange python]

Shouldnt be, but I know im going to eat those words

[quiet oar]

I mean you can plan movement now rightß

Without rng?

[strange python]

That doesnt mean that someone wont mess it up.

[quiet oar]

But its probably more enjoyable 😄

Because Zskarn was the boss i had the least fun

[grim jay]

Dunno, I sometimes get annoyed faster if its a person failing over and over

Especially if its the same one

But it should be better to progress in terms of consistency

[strange python]

I will get to see what the team wants to do on Saturday next week. Hopfully we have a good path. If we dont I guess its gonna be a while.

[quiet oar]

You can cloak the Line btw

But

You activiate the line instantly

Be aware of that

and you can feint them aswell

[strange python]

Sick, thank you for the advice.

[cobalt hemlock]

not sure about anyone else but shadowstepping the knockback on mythic zskarn seems like a super bait. more than one time i died to lines likes a dumbass because i shadowstepped into a line

[quiet oar]

Yeah

Best is shadowstepping tank

tbh

[clever sapphire]

aight boys wish me luck, doing my first mythic raid experience with a pug

[royal lantern]

tends to go allright at this point of an expansion tbh

just hope its not 70% rat alts lmao

[clever sapphire]

i have no idea, but i saw what guilds my friends are raiding in and how they struggle with even the first 3 bosses, still didnt kill experiments

xD

so my expectation is disband after the first boss or some shit like that

[royal lantern]

first 3 bosses are not really bigbrainers that need coordination tbh

[clever sapphire]

aight im gonna hold you to those words

[royal lantern]

i mean, if you get bad players, i cant change that

[clever sapphire]

im known to get the worst pugging groups ever xd

[royal lantern]

pugs break on fights that need coordination

aka experiments/rashok and stuff after it

[clever sapphire]

isnt that the first boss? thought you need to like place the shit on the floor in a line and drag it according and whatnot

[royal lantern]

not really lol

dont place the portals all over the place, dont overlap beams

thats it

[clever sapphire]

well i do know the mechanics, i just have 0 trust in pugs

[royal lantern]

a decent mythic pug wont invite people that never did those bosses

[clever sapphire]

yep, and i didnt so

ah how i missed playing my rogue, have only been playing alts lately

[cobalt hemlock]

what has happened that you are condemned to such a horrible fate?

[clever sapphire]

im bored

thats about it

first pull on kazarra 30%, not bad, better than expected

also didnt know you can live when beams tocuh

touch*

i lived it without CD

well half the raid died, but thats a story for another time

he is deadge, but i died too at the end and messed up some shit me sadge

[clever sapphire]

group disband, pog

[cobalt hemlock]

oh so you are locked for mythic and group disbanded thats sounds like classic mythic pug expeirnce

[clever sapphire]

yap

but i got the dagger off the first boss

so its fiiiiine

[marble cedar]

Going to ask what's possibly an absolutely stupid question, but...is Assassination in Mythic+ awful? I'm currently 436ilvl (https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9U5zcnQaqnGk9tJ7UF7e1t) and I don't come anywhere close to the consistency of Mages, Enhancement Shaman, Priests. My gear isn't perfect (only began gearing last week) or am I doing something wrong? I'm using Carnage on pack pulls, using Deathmark, spamming between Crimson Tempest and Envenom. There's not really much more I can do, and yet despite some big numbers, these classes just consistently smash meters?

[cerulean nest]

frfr what's the play on progging M sark

spec wise

I know it's all garbage

[balmy condor]

yep welcome to m+

you get shit on by mages/locks/spriests