with running around picking up haste
#assassination
blazing jewel
Our prog point is basically the first dispel gate in p3
So I haven’t really gotten to test sin p3 much
earnest remnant
we fucked up boss pos after going down in p3
so the boss was not in melee
during hide xD
drifting cloud
that just means u got more wizards
blazing jewel
Yea….
fleet pagoda
hey gents, I could use some advice on itemization. I understand fragment is oversimming. i have nelth trink, bomb, and fragment available to me all 437-441. when i spend time on a training dummy unbuffed; about 3 and a half minutes. my fragment/bomb is putting up almost identical (about 2-3k dps more overall) relative to nelth/bomb. the 4-minute mark of combat is going to be heavily in favor of the fragment for that whole CD line-up. especially in a real scenario where the boss would be entering execute range close to that point (still grinding heroic raid 
). am I missing something that's baiting me into thinking Fragment is playing better for me right now? is there any chance it's due to my itemization outside of the trinkets? i.e. being 2pc+2pc.
fleet pagoda
gotcha
i was about 13k dps less on first boss last weekend with the nelth/bomb trinket compared to frag/bomb the weekend before that, although I accidently had two howling runes in place of buzzing runes too. felt pretty gross but I was genuinely lost as to what was the largest factor for that severe drop
strange python
Sark dies tonight
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
woeful meteor
Sark dies tonight
what dosage of copium did you take to come to that conclusion(I have no Idea where you raid and what you best % is)
balmy condor
the best 2t cleave doesnt take sepsis?
would assume bone spike is at least equal but 2t cleave doesn't exist in the game atm so I haven't really looked into it
quasi steeple
**Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: <https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev>**
When u click in "all combos" shows one build but when u export the build is a diff one, is that ok?
vapid sierra
would assume bone spike is at least equal but 2t cleave doesn't exist in the gam...
forgotten expiremnts?
i mean its not 100%
more like 75/80% 2t cleave
balmy condor
forgotten experiments isn't that heavy on cleave
it's single target with an add spawn to burst
and you're playing assassination
you don't have anything for that add
balmy condor
When u click in "all combos" shows one build but when u export the build is a di...
yes that's intended
marble hemlock
echo is like the only boss with decent cleave, and even there its only 2t for like a minute and a half
balmy condor
sub just feels better on this fight
quasi steeple
So, that means that we playing assa is just a desperate and useless attempt to be different
vapid sierra
So, that means that we playing assa is just a desperate and useless attempt to b...
it helps us channel our inner 2008 emo edgelord spirits
quasi steeple
it helps us channel our inner 2008 emo edgelord spirits
hahahahahahaha
vapid sierra
i mean personally i play all 3 specs
i just find sin funnest in a raid setting
outlaw funnest in m+ and then sub if i want to do a fuckload of damage
thats me tho
abstract jacinth
is the icyveins talent tree up to date?
Will do so tomorrow, however.
abstract jacinth
I was gonna say i took a month-ish break right after the sepsis changes, coming back now and was curious if it was reverted back
thank you!
marble hemlock
Nah, it's just a more beginner friendly build, but not by much, and at this point, everybody should play Sepsis.
balmy condor
I didn't really hate it
marble hemlock
balmy condor
doctored image
marble hemlock
balmy condor
lies and slander
marble hemlock
blazing jewel
marble hemlock
neither were your parses
balmy condor
yeah they were pink since 2006 baby
I was banging 99's before I was in school
eat it
blazing jewel
marble hemlock
earnest remnant
so who volunteers to teach me assa
earnest remnant
i can promise 2 things
ill ask very dumb questions
and ill forget the answers to those dumb questions
woeful meteor
Keep Dots and Snd up press everything on CD except Vanish that one you hold until 2 min
Done ✅
drifting cloud
just dont make cast sequence macro openers
earnest remnant
the man that plays less assa than me
HEY
that was one time
i was lazy okay
cba'd learning the KB opener for a hc run
some times my genius freightens me
woeful meteor
tbf I think it would take me longer to learn how to make the cast sequence work then learn sin opener
earnest remnant
it worked on the first try
woeful meteor
Could you macro rotten opener thi 🤔
earnest remnant
was kinda ez tbh
still leaf
really dumb question and want to learn, is it normal to do like 20% less than patchwerk sim on a target dummy?
woeful meteor
yes you can't execute a dummy
also raid buffs or whatever you have en/disabled in patchwerk
balmy condor
you also just like
sim a dummy
if you're hitting a dummy
there's literally a fight type called "target dummy"
still leaf
i simmed both and wasnt sure if i was picking the right options since i dont do it that often
still leaf
20% less i was seeing was on the dungeoneers dummy vs the patchwerk sim
alright thats a bit of a relief, sorry for the dumb question
storm forum
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
gusty mirage
so who volunteers to teach me assa
idle inlet
im not sure what im doing wrong but when I try to copy paste the talent build into wow it says its invalid
thick sail
How much of an approximate DPS loss is breaking the 4 piece set bonus from season 1? I'd sim it, but apparently Simcraft hates my ISP for some stupid reason (even tried it on my gf's computer, doesn't work there either)
Very weird, because it was working fine months ago
runic hinge
How much of an approximate DPS loss is breaking the 4 piece set bonus from seaso...
Are you breaking it for 2+2 or just ilvl?
strange python
so who volunteers to teach me assa
I got u
ruby birch
can i get it in colouring book format
me too please
gusty mirage
me too please
keen spruce
can you forward my sim results via carrier pigeon? my isp and usps also don't cooperate with raidbots
gusty mirage
no
keen spruce
okay 
strange python
me too please
None for you. You willed lingering shadows into existence
You must atone for your sins
hushed glacier
Is there any news about 10.1.5 Rogue changes yet? We’re supposed to be getting a re-work right?
runic hinge
can you forward my sim results via carrier pigeon? my isp and usps also don't co...
I work for USPS I’ll talk to my supervisor for you
thick sail
@runic hinge just for ilev
thin scroll
anyone here by any chance has made a weakaura with a Charged Combo Point trigger and can give me a hand real quick please?
keen spruce
elaborate 
thin scroll
WA has a Charged Combo Point condition that Im not sure how it works
oh said trigger and meant condition, sorry
keen spruce
what are you trying to do with it?
thin scroll
create a condition for when my combo points = charged combo point, something happens
keen spruce
like a notification that you have any number of charaged cp remaining?
i think you just use that screenshot there but just have multiple triggers under the condition for each cp
there's probably a better way to do it but that's where i'd start
thin scroll
no, like, combo point 3 is charged and I currently have 3 combo points, the bar changes color
thin scroll
just really wanna know what is that charged combo point condition
then I can make it work
keen spruce
i think like what you have there
thin scroll
cause it has charged combo point from 1 to 4
keen spruce
is just the condition that the 2nd cp is charged
so you'd need that condition AND you total cp equals that number
thin scroll
it isnt unfortunately
thin scroll
doesnt activate with just combo point 2 being charged
well, research must continue then thanks tho
ok, seems each different charged combo point refers to one of the auras you get, with talent to get 2 extra, 1 is always 3
2 is always 2
3 is 4, cause fuck you thats why
without talent I think 1 changes from 2 to 4
proper tapir
well, research must continue then thanks tho
Do you just want a trigger that pops when you land on a charged CP?
thin scroll
cause charged combo points 2 and 3 dont exist
thin scroll
Do you just want a trigger that pops when you land on a charged CP?
yes but also later I will need to determine which is still up to show on my combo bar
but is there something for what you said?
proper tapir
Yeah, i can send you my custom F()
thin scroll
so there is no way to do it with default conditions?
proper tapir
but is there something for what you said?
function()
CP=UnitPower("player",4)
if WA_GetUnitBuff("Player",323558,"player") and CP==2 then
return=true
elseif WA_GetUnitBuff("Player",323559,"player") and CP==3 then
return=true
elseif WA_GetUnitBuff("Player",323560,"player") and CP==4 then
return=true
elseif WA_GetUnitBuff("Player",354838,"player") and CP==5 then
return=true
else
return=false
end
end
thin scroll
was gonna do it by adding 3 aura triggers, but then saw that condition
hmmm I see, thanks
oh, can easily overlay charged combo points
proper tapir
so there is no way to do it with default conditions?
Idk man, default option make WA more complicated - each charged point is tracked in buff so I look for that buff and if I'm on the corresponding CP
thin scroll
gotta make 3 triggers like these but works
nvm, condition changes only other solution would be multiple aura triggers
cerulean nest
are the buffs in Nightly currently?
deft flicker
Buffs will be in sim when they go live (in like 35-40 hours)
limber lion
anyone here by any chance has made a weakaura with a Charged Combo Point trigger...
Zac has a really good one that plenty of people use, me included
thin scroll
can you link it please? tho, I will probably keep mine cause I mad eit work how I like it by now lol
thin scroll
thanks
limber lion
Mine looks completely different as I changed all the colors and sizes and everything, but the functionality is the same
Works flawlessly and dymamically adapts to 5-7 cp depending on talents
wispy iris
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
blazing jewel
wake up guys its almost buff day
strange python
they call it assassin rogue because they’re caked tf up
blazing jewel
could even call it double cheeked up
sharp viper
🔜
molten galleon
is there a way to log dummy fights ?
molten galleon
okay thanks
blazing jewel
molten galleon
I have way lower Dmg of Rupture than in my sim, the uptime isnt the problem, someone has an idea what could be the cuase ?
balmy condor
you're comparing raw rupture damage to rupture + tier probably
bit blurry but looks like your rupture is doing 1.6 raw
with tier that sounds about right
molten galleon
but shoulnd it not be shoing in details aswell ? atleast as another bar ?
molten galleon
ah I see
tyring to learn assa atm, to be prepared for next week, I struggling to get my sim dps on the dummy 😄
balmy condor
no real reason to try and do either of those things
but I have faith you'll figure it out
molten galleon
😄 well getting into the rotation and Sepsis/Deathmark/Exsang Timings^^ 😄
royal lantern
😄 well getting into the rotation and Sepsis/Deathmark/Exsang Timings^^ 😄
tbf
its mostly "use Sepsis on cd, use exsang with dm and not alone, use dm on cd"
dont overthink those 3abilitys
molten galleon
^^
arctic current
is master poisoner worth it at all for atrophic?
royal lantern
eh, not really tbh overall
royal lantern
like, you can take reduced energy cost for your own deffensives instead
balmy condor
there's nothing stopping you from taking it
blazing jewel
down there in 12th
These words hurt 
master poisoner should be good value if feint is bad for a fight
royal lantern
tbf, if feint is bad for a fight, chances are high that atrophic does nothing aswell
arctic current
good to know... not many rogues seem to take it guess fck everyone else 😄
balmy condor
it's not so much that master poisoner sucks
it's more so that atrophic sucks
so buffing it isn't great either
arctic current
yeah fair
royal lantern
Hey tryan look at this it can’t scare you it’s only an emote
hey, i accepted exsang as a shity part of my life allready
not even mad anymore, its just "yeha, it sucks, but it is what it is"
blazing jewel
Exsanguinate - dwain (a pewson, animaw, ow owgan) of bwood.
"cawotid awnd juguwaw vessews wewe cut tuwu exsanguinate the heawt"
The uwu translator has my heart
royal lantern
good to know... not many rogues seem to take it guess fck everyone else 😄
if atrophic was like devo aura and would always reduce all dmg by 3%, yeha sure, master poisoner would be a must Pick and good
but because of how it actually works, aka you need uptime on an enemy, only reduces direct dmg from that enemy, everything that is envoirmental ignores it etc .... its just kinda bad and not really worth the point, rather take reduced vial/feint cost instead
molten galleon
When I have an improved Garrote up, and no Improved one to follow, to I refresh last possible sec or just in pandemic ? Is the improved one overwritten by normal one ?
molten galleon
okay, is there any weakaura indicator to know id the garrote is improved or not ?
royal lantern
any form of modified dot(exsang/stealth/sepsis) = you re-appky at 1 or 0seconds
royal lantern
okay, is there any weakaura indicator to know id the garrote is improved or not ...
whisp update of afrnars wa pack has it
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
royal lantern
luxthos has it aswell
molten galleon
Mhn intereseting, I do my own Wa but I will try to implement it 😄
spark scaffold
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
molten galleon
But I can reapply Imp Garrot with Imp Garrote right ?
eager solstice
Yes
fallen raven
damn master poisoner doesn't even increase leeching poison
not like +1% leech is particularly much
gaunt moat
But you can get 0.6% more DR 
blissful forge
wicked valve
Do anyone think assassin will ever have a mechanic that reduces CD's based on CP spent like Outlaw and Sub does? Going back to ass and losing that feels so bad.
cunning nest
not like +1% leech is particularly much
Well, it's 20% more
blazing jewel
I think that exact mechanic is what most sub and outlaw players hate
wicked valve
Really? Why? Maybe i'm just bad, but it feels amazing to have AR almost always and shadow dance CD majorly reduced
vestal wren
Do anyone think assassin will ever have a mechanic that reduces CD's based on CP...
having cdr is fun gameplay wise but for balancing usually not something you want to have
basically both sub/outlaw have no extra benefits that outweigh the trade-offs you get from cdr
blazing jewel
Really? Why? Maybe i'm just bad, but it feels amazing to have AR almost always a...
If you have two specs that are balanced to deal 100k dps over 5 mins but one has cdr on the cooldown. The cdr specs cd has to have reduced value compared to the non cdr cd
wicked valve
Does ass have extra benefits from not having it?
blazing jewel
And usually strong cds are heavily valued in a lot of content
vestal wren
yes
blazing jewel
A way to view that is look at the damage graph on a sin log vs a sub log to see their damage profiles
Or a more extreme case look at an uh dk
vestal wren
the gameplay can be a lot more scripted/planed. You see people basically planing out every global for assassination
wicked valve
the gameplay can be a lot more scripted/planed. You see people basically planing...
I'm way too smooth brained for that. lol
vestal wren
also downtimes you can't create cdr on still regenerate the same amount of cooldown reduction
so your cooldowns might be up while cdr specs still need to wait
cdr is in a sense more punishing, and hence should in theory produce higher output
given the higher risk
wicked valve
That makes more sense.
vestal wren
but there are alot of specs above it that don't have this drawbacks and do significant better damage
(just showing all specs abov ~133k dps)
wicked valve
I'm nowhere near that level. Usually get AOTC and maybe 4-5 mythic kills a tier. I just like having fun. Did my first 20 last night and that was neat.
I love assassin and I want to play it, but the past few weeks I've been tooling around with outlaw and more recently sub, and it just feels cleaner to me.
vestal wren
tbh the assassination buffs are a great reason to play it
gaunt moat
Hey, sorry for multiple versions hassle, but I'm just updated the Sepsis WA with another bug fix
- Fix for shiv indicator not appearing with one charge available
wicked valve
tbh the assassination buffs are a great reason to play it
I'll def keep trying. I keep being told that ass doesnt need restealths but I just cant make it work in high level M+
It's most likely a me problem not a spec thing, I just need more pratice.
royal lantern
Do anyone think assassin will ever have a mechanic that reduces CD's based on CP...
i pray to god it never will, CD'r is a blight at this point, just get slammed into all specs for no reason
wicked valve
i pray to god it never will, CD'r is a blight at this point, just get slammed in...
I'm very likely in the wrong. I understand all the points above, but personally, I like pressing the buttong twice even if it only does 1/2 damage each time. It's most of the reason why i played ass in the first place. Smaller numbers, but loads of them.
storm onyx
Really? Why? Maybe i'm just bad, but it feels amazing to have AR almost always a...
Perma-Dance characteristic of Sub is one of the reasons some of the old players hated it. It’s so bland
wicked valve
Perma-Dance characteristic of Sub is one of the reasons some of the old players ...
Im relativley new to trying sub, so maybe thats why it doesnt bother me.
DM to me feels so weak in M+, which is where most of my gameplay time goes.
wraith cosmos
i enjoy the simple style of sin
storm onyx
DM to me feels so weak in M+, which is where most of my gameplay time goes.
Its a priority target CD, with big impact. The shorter CD, less impactful it would become due to tuning. We don’t want bland/empty buttons just to smash )
Also spec is functional still up to a good point.
wraith cosmos
if you ever felt a specific add is an issue in m+ you will love DM
royal lantern
I'm very likely in the wrong. I understand all the points above, but personally,...
i mean, its more Like
people should play specs that have that stuff then
and not want everything to be the same
outlaw is CD'r based, so its allright
sub always had cdr on dance for ages now
but shit like unholy dk cdr on army is just braindead
just turn it into a 3min cd at that point
storm onyx
I'm very likely in the wrong. I understand all the points above, but personally,...
If you like that kind of impulsive play, Outlaw or Fury is for you tbh. SuB lost its identity to a point because Blizz decided to appease ppl complaining about dmg profile.
wicked valve
if you ever felt a specific add is an issue in m+ you will love DM
Agreed. But theres usually 1-2 of those adds in every other pull. DM just doesnt cut it for me at that point. Again, just a me problem.
I appreciate all the discussion though! Especially since none of you flamed me or just told me to get good. I never really knew CDR was a universally hated thing.
vestal wren
its not a hated thing
it is just that tuning is not consistent enough to make it appealing
the trust put in blizz to get tuning correct is just to low to make higher trade-off design choices appealing
gilded burrow
is ass worth trying this season for m+?
vestal wren
if you like the spec, can play it, it isn't stronger than sub/outlaw
gilded burrow
how big do you think the jump in the dps difference is between ass and sub/outlaw
ashen rover
does toxified armor patch quality matters?
wraith cosmos
you see, sub is pretty complicated in aoe, having to spam exactly 2 buttons all the time, so they have higher dmg
they also get a better fan of knives that doesnt need to crit to generate combo points
😄
vestal wren
it matters for the one who crafts the boots, if you want a higher chance of max item level you probably want a rank 3 armor patch
ashen rover
i see, thanks !
vestal wren
you see, sub is pretty complicated in aoe, having to spam exactly 2 buttons all ...
storm, rupture, bp, shadow dance, shuriken tornado, symbols of death, flagallation, evi, secret
wraith cosmos
i know
vestal wren
exactly 2
wraith cosmos
im mostly miffed by the improved fan of knives...sometimes you feel the fact you need to crit to generate combo points
royal lantern
storm, rupture, bp, shadow dance, shuriken tornado, symbols of death, flagallati...
fuu, common
wraith cosmos
it is, mostly
royal lantern
really
subtle tundra
im mostly miffed by the improved fan of knives...sometimes you feel the fact you...
Huh
You have so much damn crit
With the talents
wraith cosmos
yes
wraith cosmos
and sometimes on 4 targets i still need to FoK three times
subtle tundra
Its really not an issue
vestal wren
storm - bp - storm - bp
subtle tundra
storm - bp - storm - bp <:starege:923197272064426075>
Some people still living in shadowlands
vestal wren
its a meme, and there is a certain trueth in it
subtle tundra
I remember the biggest problem for sub in sl was people not seeing the s3 procs
And it seemed so fucking hilarious
They can't look at the 1 resource
And 1 thing they have to track
vestal wren
i think the s3 tier sesign was not that good
vestal wren
but for sure, not being able to react to a proc seems sus
vestal wren
people still macro everything
subtle tundra
In case they proc
gilded burrow
so general consensus im hearing is learn sub lol
vestal wren
you have your daily "macro tea and symbols to dance" guy question if thats fine in #subtlety
subtlety is meta in m+
so if you want to have a easy time finding groups, it is probably the best choice to play
vestal wren
if you just do your weekly 20 or spam some keys around the level, it isn't rly that problematic
can play whatever if you don't push the high world ranks
gusty mirage
i think the s3 tier sesign was not that good
I think you are not alone in that thought
Sub’s tier set was absolutely awful
gilded burrow
yeah might just mess around on ass because rogue is my alt
not gonna push high keys
royal lantern
people still macro everything
can i macro tea and dance and shadowblade and shadowstrike and gloomblade and potion and trinket togheter?
vestal wren
Sub’s tier set was absolutely awful
i am honest, i think most tier sets s3 or later didn't end up that exciting/interessting
vestal wren
can i macro tea and dance and shadowblade and shadowstrike and gloomblade and po...
you can, its just not good
gusty mirage
Trying to play around procs like that was just awful gameplay
You either did all the damage or none
It felt so shitty
vestal wren
i think the biggest complain was the impact on gameplay
you ended up in a more "send everything on cd" loop than before and even had some min/max options people mostly ignored
DF ironically continues to push this trend in terms of gameplay
storm onyx
I appreciate all the discussion though! Especially since none of you flamed me o...
CDR means your dmg profile become flatter. In the end you may have same dmg output overall. Yet what you can accomplish on your own in a fight gets a big hit. In WoD, Sub could kill boss adds on it’s own each go while it took 3 ppl to kill by others for example. That’s power.
vestal wren
funnily enough "on cd" was most of the time the cooldown use from assassination
blazing jewel
Sepsis requires your monitor to be turned on which is nice
royal lantern
its more like, assa was send on cd always, so its allright
sub was allways more about stacking things for its more complicated parts, but when all that goes away it feels barebones
hence why storm->bp is a meme
like yeha, ofc sub does more overall, but its just "lol use it when ready" anyway in the far far far majority of cases
and its just wrong for sub
vestal wren
to the defense of sub, it has quite some conditions to multiple cooldowns
tea as boring as we assumed it would be, integrates rly nice into subtlety
spice surge
like yeha, ofc sub does more overall, but its just "lol use it when ready" anywa...
Main reason why i like the rotten, with that you can atleast shift some stuff around, even though you still need to use dance on cd
vestal wren
to bring one example
storm onyx
like yeha, ofc sub does more overall, but its just "lol use it when ready" anywa...
Yea, so bland now compared to what it used to be
royal lantern
i mean yeha, current tier makes it slightly more involved with the snapshotting symbols from dance
but thats it
royal lantern
i mean yes, it feels very unituitive
spice surge
Like on neltharion i dont vanish at 1 minute because theres a stop dps part from like 2:10-2:30, so i dont need to reduce my flag by 30s, its fine if its ready at 2:35 instead of 2:05
vestal wren
but assassination's tier set is also kinda passive
royal lantern
assa set sucks
vestal wren
outlaw to a degree has the "best" tier set design
subtle tundra
but assassination's tier set is also kinda passive
I'll have you know using exsang in my dm is not passive
vestal wren
when you can't give up the 0.5% dps from exsang
gusty mirage
I'll have you know using exsang in my dm is not passive
Gamer
subtle tundra
<:starege:923197272064426075> when you can't give up the 0.5% dps from exsang
Isn't it more for dslice
woeful meteor
me refreshing SnD actively since I cct is a 0.5 loss wont be passive either
curious how annoying that will play
vestal wren
cct did sim higher for the top build
wraith cosmos
i really do wonder why they decided to put cttc in a far off corner like that
vestal wren
so its probably just about getting better gear
subtle tundra
Well outlaw will have to press snd and that's nice
Always happy for outlaw suffering
vestal wren
i don't think pressing snd on its own is a problem
its just that it adds to the already high effort of maintenance buttons
storm onyx
SnD needs to be deleted; it’s beyond archaic atm
We have enough maintenance and it’s already automated
And no, its not flavor as marketed
royal lantern
Well outlaw will have to press snd and that's nice
outlaw players explaining why its still the BEST SPEC IN THE GAME and that outlaw is not a bunch of random things thrown togheter with a single string holding it all in place
storm onyx
))
vestal wren
outlaw players explaining why its still the BEST SPEC IN THE GAME and that outla...
let people be happy with what they got
gusty mirage
We have enough maintenance and it’s already automated
You can sacrifice that automation for a sizable dps increase though
So have at it
turbid quail
do people really play without cut to the chase?
woeful meteor
I will try it in HC next week and if it doesnt bother me I'll do in mythic
getting the double shiv to have another rule to think about seems kinda nice
royal lantern
do people really play without cut to the chase?
no
it will not even be a dps increase lol
like, its a pure sim thing
turbid quail
yeah seems awful lol
vestal wren
fairly certain that maintaining snd is not that big of a issue, just inconvinient
peak bobcat
You can sacrifice that automation for a sizable dps increase though
What would you do for 600 dps?
peak bobcat
I’d kiss you for free 
wraith cosmos
i like being at least a bit lazy so ill prob never play without cttc
peak bobcat
Instantly recrafted all my gear so I could play the superior best spec in the game
Assassination rogue
median root
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
woeful meteor
Im holding my shiv at 1.30 and at 2 is it bad?
what talents are you running?
clever sapphire
i usually hold my shiv like 5 seconds too for sepsis, same with DM
but if its like 15 seconds hold i wont do it
lavish hazel
what talents are you running?
Double shiv no exsangue
clever sapphire
i mean if you have double shiv just always hold 1 for sepsis and dm
woeful meteor
Ye its pretty scripted when you use shiv with that one lemme see if I can find a picture with timings
lavish hazel
Thx
woeful meteor
@balmy condor why do you shiv at 30 sec it isn't during dm nor sepsis or does the tset count for the shiv rule
also sry for the early morning or very late night ping
limber lion
You Shiv on CD with single Shiv
With Lightweight you sync with Sepsis or Deathmark, but the 30s Shiv and the one after don't sync with either
#1 rule is not to overcap Shiv charges
lavish hazel
Lightweight = double shiv ?
limber lion
Yes
lavish hazel
Idk the name of the talents
royal lantern
yes
lavish hazel
Ok Thx
woeful meteor
Ye I mean with double shiv from my understanding the third shiv should be at like 55 sec to avoid capping, I guess you could just send second charge earlier, but all the logs still shiv at 55 which confuses me
lavish hazel
So we double shiv at open then just dont overcap but hold 1stack for sepsis / dm right ?
limber lion
So we double shiv at open then just dont overcap but hold 1stack for sepsis / dm...
Yes
woeful meteor
obviously small sample size opened like 5 logs all did it
lavish hazel
Looks simple
wraith cosmos
outside the sepsis dm windows is there still the ideal of tripple envenoms you wanna aim for or is that whatever
royal lantern
Looks simple
#1 rule in wow: dont overthink stuff
limber lion
Should have 1 shiv for every sepsis and 2 shiv for every deathmark
royal lantern
its often simple
lavish hazel
I do it on outlaw aha
limber lion
outside the sepsis dm windows is there still the ideal of tripple envenoms you w...
Nothing like that
royal lantern
#2 is fuck boomkins
limber lion
Sure some low energy so and er ready shenanigans so you get 7cp envenoms with tea buff without overcapping energy or charges
But honestly nothing super
lavish hazel
And btw on sepsis we always garrote ? Juste press it at the end of sepsis to min max the garrote duration right ?
limber lion
Yes
lavish hazel
Okay then I’m assa on nelth now thx guys
limber lion
Immediately at the beginning then just before it runs out ir garrote runs out
woeful meteor
first 23 majority has third shiv at 30 and fourth at around 1 min
lavish hazel
Oh immediately at the beginning except at start right ? Cuz you have your first garrote from stealth
limber lion
Yep
lavish hazel
I mean except at pull
limber lion
Oh immediately at the beginning except at start right ? Cuz you have your first ...
No you still do it immediately
Because of Exsang
limber lion
Good
lavish hazel
Because I don’t have engough haste / mastery I guess ?
lavish hazel
I don’t really like it
royal lantern
just accept it lmao
blazing jewel
I thought double shiv wasn’t the best build
wraith cosmos
im a casual so, it can sim as high as it wants i aint touching it
blazing jewel
Am I missing something
I looked at rashok and the majority are playing double shiv venom rush
woeful meteor
it isnt unless you play double shiv, exsang, no cct
lavish hazel
Idk depends on your sims I guess
raven merlin
I thought double shiv wasn’t the best build
think was cause the 6:10-6:40 killtimer
blazing jewel
I’ve only been simming the normal sepsis exsang build
Oh you know what yea
Kill timer probably shifts things
lavish hazel
If it’s 6:40 you can 3 exsangue so why they don’t play it then
woeful meteor
sending exsang at 3 and then getting exsang dm with pot at 6 seems pretty good, but you arent suppossed to send exsang at 3 anymore so idk
lavish hazel
Why
blazing jewel
It would be on dm 1 and then hold for dm 3
But dm 3 on that fight wouldn’t get full value if the kill timer is 6:10
lavish hazel
Yes
blazing jewel
So exsang likely not good for most kills
lavish hazel
Idk i guess I’m not gonna play it at the start especially on neltharion lol
patent silo
sorry, if that may sound obvious for you... but with a kiil timer of 5:30 you sit the 2 exanguinate for the 4 min DM? or you throw it on cd with ER?
blazing jewel
Dm 4 would be the one that wouldn’t get full value
cunning nest
I can only speak for myself
I have waaaay more fun since I dropped exh
Legy parses are possible btw
Like dude wbove said.. No matter what sim tell you, many bosstimer favor having none
rain oyster
Parsing 
cunning nest
And most importantly: Opener is not THAT stupid long
cunning nest
Parsing <a:azorDrive:840308137553952779>
still epoch
rain oyster
Literally unplayable. Buttons disappear off keyboard if not crit mast
royal lantern
Fck parsing
parsing is so skill based this patch
just get beacon and hope it crits on all pulls
and that sophic procced during the opener
rain oyster
Bacon crits
gusty mirage
just get beacon and hope it crits on all pulls
Just be the better player idk
Better players crit more
lavish hazel
just get beacon and hope it crits on all pulls
I loged 2 Times 100 with bacon technology 🥸
spiral pasture
beacon should have never been allowed to crit
lavish hazel
Easy rank 1
gusty mirage
I crit both of my beacon casts on rashok like 3 weeks ago and did 127k
I was just clearly the better player
spiral pasture
you killing it before 3rd beacon?
gusty mirage
On heroic*
spiral pasture
ooh
gusty mirage
I decided to ride waves on our kill
After not getting hit with waves the entire night
Cause I’m a good player honest
My mythic parses are hot ass garbage
And stealthi insists on saying I don’t suck
spiral pasture
yh i dodge every wave, dont check logs tho, trust me
it is funny tho when i get hit and never die from it and then our enha gets hit dies with like 22k overkill and then gets memed on for the rest of the night because he would have survived if he didnt have the cloak equipped
rain oyster
The true gamers are last one alive evasion tanking the boss to a kill. Not parsers 
gusty mirage
The true gamers are last one alive evasion tanking the boss to a kill. Not parse...
I almost made it happen on magmorax
600k left before my shit ran out
Was casting bacon
And he just deleted me
gusty mirage
it is funny tho when i get hit and never die from it and then our enha gets hit ...
Cause he tried running out of it with the wave and got double tapped
Amateur move
spiral pasture
yep
earnest remnant
And stealthi insists on saying I don’t suck
only thing that sucked ws my dmg on our Sark kill
agile osprey
blazing jewel
unborn geode
The true gamers are last one alive evasion tanking the boss to a kill. Not parse...
i wasn't last alive but i was evasion tanking Rashok for the tank mechanic and full duration as all the pallies used their shields to drop aggro -_-... ate 1 more hit after duration ended and then the raid killed him
toxic night
Imagine they bring back the 45sec cd 200% faster bleed exsang kek
gusty mirage
200%? 
weak plover
Give duskwalkers patch
lavish hazel
Is it better to play beacon or irideus
peak bobcat
After not getting hit with waves the entire night
Me too
weak plover
hot basin
Is it better to play beacon or irideus
i have hc beacon and 441 irideus sims +1k
on sst
gaunt moat
i have hc beacon and 441 irideus sims +1k
Are you aware the fragment is oversimming?
hot basin
no didnt know is it bugged?
weak plover
Check the pins.
hot basin
hmm so here is a weird questin about oversimming cause cant find anything about it on the pins
i just droptimized crafted items and toxic thorn boots sims 1k more than my slimy on assas
is it bugged too?
gusty mirage
no
toxic thorn is better in ST than slimy
it was bugged
well not exactly bugged
but the way the spell data worked is that the one the sims used didn't account for the haste loss
so they had to put that in
but toxic thorn is also oversimming a bit
because it'll munch damage procs w/ heal procs
and its inevitable as a rogue
hot basin
would you craft both slimy and toxic to swap between raiding as assas and m+ as sub?
gusty mirage
I would not, just pick one and stick with it tbh
limber lion
Hell no
gusty mirage
the dif is small enough where it doesn't actually matter
probably go toxic thorn
fwiw
limber lion
Who cares about 0.1-0.2% dps in Mythic+
Tank pulls one extra mob, you already deal more damage overall that way
storm onyx
and its inevitable as a rogue
SnD gone; Boots fixed */nod
gusty mirage
only in your wettest of dreams my friend
storm onyx
Oum, didnt see Dnd sorry
gusty mirage
Oum, didnt see Dnd sorry
lavish hazel
I actually had token slimy but the stats kinda sucks should i replace it in aim to stat weight ?
And take toxic instead ?
vestal wren
but toxic thorn is also oversimming a bit
recup is considered in the sim
gusty mirage
I thought they fixed it by assigning it a ratio of damage/heal procs
vestal wren
from what i understand, gastank added support for healing procs
recup/passive snd heal/soothing are parsed automated so both should work as intended
gusty mirage
vestal wren
but correct me if i am wrong, i still haven't had a lot of time to dive into the codebase
gusty mirage
I'm not sure, I always thought it was a ratio thing
I haven't looked at what he submitted tbh
vestal wren
overall it should perform about as good as in game, so can trust simulations
winter gale
Two rogues on fight should go for both numbin and atrophic?
One for each* if there are caster adds/enemies
spiral pasture
how much better is toxic even?
vestal wren
Two rogues on fight should go for both numbin and atrophic?
yes, if you have 2 rogues always coordinate who uses atrophic
gusty mirage
how much better is toxic even?
like 0.5-0.6%
vestal wren
rogue is sadly not that popular, so most raids only have one
0.6% last time i checked
gusty mirage
so if you already have slimy
vestal wren
lower in m+, think was about equal
gusty mirage
not even worth recrafting unless you have nothing else to craft
vestal wren
slime is also better on sub
spiral pasture
yeah
gusty mirage
prolly less than 0.6% now w/ the aura buff
spiral pasture
wrists next spark then boots then belt cuz my current toxic is on head
should have made belt but went all in on sub
vestal wren
tbh even tho a buff to sin was expected (due to performance on wcl statistic), i think its fair to stick with subtlety
but lets see how the meta evolves
gusty mirage
what meta?
the only reason people bring a rogue is because they think atrophic is useful
spiral pasture
"eh play w/e you want, you just here for atrophic bro" XD
vestal wren
bringing the "best of the worse" might be relevant still
royal lantern
but lets see how the meta evolves
the Meta off "it doesnt really matter cus all3 are mediocre at best, but people chase that 1k sim dps harder then a drug addict a needle"
vestal wren
Wdym, rogue is op, why would anyone bench a rogue
subtle tundra
the 2nd* rogue
vestal wren
jokes aside, i think it is in general tuning that is not ... great
and it does not help that all 3 rogue specs bring essentially the same
on the bright side, it is more or less a "play what you want" patch
thin gate
guys 1 question
how much % do u sit roughly on ST Haste
stat wise %
cause im at a point where hasta outsims pretty much my other stats
but dunno how much it will change with bomb dispenser
vestal wren
"bis" gear has ~17% haste
thin gate
cause when i unequip darkuul or w.e its called (N L trinket) ima lose roughly 600 crit
uff
i need rashok necklace then
or roshak or what his name is
vestal wren
but also i don't think its reasonable to just down that rabbit hole
because gear and other factors can make things diffrent for you
thin gate
nana im 9% Haste rn, in raid i equip 2 x howling rune and m+ 2 x buzzing
vestal wren
so raidbots is your friend ^^
thin gate
yh its just
i swap 1 trinket get a new trinket which scales well with crit
and lose a trinket that gives crit baseline
so i was curious
vestal wren
id:202610
can just use ilevel=441 to set it to 441
thin gate
its a TC thingy
spice surge
Well you can still pose it, there are plenty of knowledgeable people in here besides fuu
Like this cutie @gusty mirage 
austere fulcrum
Wait so u targeting 17% regardless at this point? Haste is also simming higher for me like 5.8 and rest is betwen 5 to 5,6 so not much difference, i was avoiding the haste and keep it below 10%
royal lantern
we aint targeting shit
austere fulcrum
I looked at best assa rog logs and everyone playing different amount of haste, i saw minimum 800 points or up to 2200
keen spruce
lots of people are lazy, look at a bis list, and just gem/gear crit/mastery
or just haven't found optimal gear
or just don't care cuz the difference isn't that significant
or play other specs and don't want haste to scuff their OL or sub sets
subtle tundra
Wait so u targeting 17% regardless at this point? Haste is also simming higher f...
🤨 🤨 🤨 🤨 🤨 🤨 🤨 🤨
this is why bis lists dont exist here
brazen zodiac
o.o
oak sky
Stat weights
austere fulcrum
Stat weights <a:AINTNOWAY:1050211099158511626>
I prefer to go with top gear most of the time rather than stst weights
Stat*
austere fulcrum
this is why bis lists dont exist here
Fuu just said, bis gear has 17% haste, that is why i asked 🙂
oak sky
Well if you use top gear and you don't have haste gear available you end up with less haste
Its not rocket science
austere fulcrum
I literally have every single neck or ring piece available and i check them.
subtle tundra
Fuu just said, bis gear has 17% haste, that is why i asked 🙂
yes and thats why i said bis lists arent available
oak sky
Then you don't 
subtle tundra
you see bis say 17% and people will immediately thing they need
subtle tundra
And stat weights tell me to put haste
and thats why you dont use stat weights
austere fulcrum
I know i am in same situation, dont take me wrong. I also font understand:)
austere fulcrum
and thats why you dont use stat weights
Yes i try to avoid stat weights as much as i can
austere fulcrum
Ehat about vers :))
storm onyx
I know i am in same situation, dont take me wrong. I also font understand:)
Well, a logical check you can do is to see if Droptimizer favors Haste items on some of your slots in similar lvls
austere fulcrum
Well, a logical check you can do is to see if Droptimizer favors Haste items on ...
Very good point, and i did that too, it is only 447 weapons or/and higher ilvl things nothing with stats
vestal wren
Fuu just said, bis gear has 17% haste, that is why i asked 🙂
well yes, but i did also say you should not use it as a reference
austere fulcrum
So like i am giga confused, because in logs, there is a dude with 700 haste and 2k haste making same dps, and the difference usually on vers.
austere fulcrum
well yes, but i did also say you should not use it as a reference
Yes u are right, sorry to not mention that part
vestal wren
so its just like
signal badger
Stats are mostly so close it doesn’t really matter
royal lantern
vestal wren
gear is diffrent and people use the best gear they have
subtle tundra
So like i am giga confused, because in logs, there is a dude with 700 haste and ...
You're thinking about it too much mate
austere fulcrum
You're thinking about it too much mate
Yeap unfortunately
vestal wren
people don't focus on specific amounts of stats since cata
storm onyx
So like i am giga confused, because in logs, there is a dude with 700 haste and ...
You are reading in to it too much. The issue is that between those instances the total dmg done can be the same; but where the dmg comes and talent out puts differ
vestal wren
somehow there are still a lot of ppl who ask for specific stat amounts
to be clear, i get where this comes from
but gear is not one dimensional, you have tier set, you have embellishments, special effect gear etc
the "best gear" will be the combination that makes the best trade-offs
gusty mirage
Like this cutie <@192059095279337473> <:ALOO:1099033558691106856>
I’m a real when it comes to TCing stuff, I leave that stuff to whispyr fuu and koji
vestal wren
e.g. you might take a tier set piece that has a bad stat, even tho you would ideally not take it
gusty mirage
I have hunches but we don’t like feelcraft around these parts
I usually bother Koji, fuu or whispyr with my hunches
vestal wren
but you want the tier set bonus, so you try to find the piece that has the "least amount of bad stats" instead
tbh, if you have any idea just post in the tc channels
gusty mirage
^ that’s how we find new stuff
vestal wren
all of them are active enough and someone usually comes back to your question/suggestion
nobody on its own does find all mistakes/improvements, and it is easy to miss stuff
so it is always a collaboration, you don't need to know simc or apl to contribute
gusty mirage
Someone has a thought, they post it, we go through it and we find new stuff all the time that way
austere fulcrum
This community is fuckn awesome, they need to buff assa rog to s++ tier rn
royal lantern
pls no
keen spruce
don't gas them up
royal lantern
dont infest this channel with sub and outlaw brains(they are both outlaw brains)
keen spruce
austere fulcrum
Yea i also try to find better ways to play, try talents stats etc, but i never shared there tbh
austere fulcrum
dont infest this channel with sub and outlaw brains(they are both outlaw brains)
Haha they ll never understand anyway :))
runic hinge
How come you can get blade flurry with your first spec tree point and ss/bp with your first 2 but CT is on the same tier as dm and exsang
royal lantern
cus BF is kinda the big thing in outlaw
royal lantern
i would say BF is a BIG part of the outlaw idenity lol
vestal wren
or do you think sub without BP woul work fine in aoe
deft flicker
isn't bf for outlaw similar to BP for sub
We don’t have shuriken storm as outlaw
vestal wren
isn't rtb the primary part of the identity
deft flicker
So flurry is there to enable any interaction with extra targets
deft flicker
It’s in like row 4 and we go there anyway because it’s right after restless blades and adrenaline
vestal wren
she answered "the dice thing"
deft flicker
What does she know about sub??
royal lantern
isn't rtb the primary part of the identity
nah, the big 3 outlaw things imo are "fast and high apm gameplay, CD reduction, Bladeflury cleave"
idk
late surge
are the buffs in raidbots btw?
vestal wren
What does she know about sub??
shadow dance and shadow step
vestal wren
you can use the overwrites from #tc-research to sim it
late surge
nono I just simmed wrong so I simmed way higher than before ^^
vestal wren
nah, the big 3 outlaw things imo are "fast and high apm gameplay, CD reduction, ...
i think Restless, RTB and BF are the 3 core things, but i am not sure if this is what people know about the spec if they are not involved
austere fulcrum
nono I just simmed wrong so I simmed way higher than before ^^
What do u sim if i may ask 🙂
deft flicker
i think Restless, RTB and BF are the 3 core things, but i am not sure if this is...
Dice, grapple and restless are probably the three flashiest outlaw things
late surge
What do u sim if i may ask 🙂
Havent simmed with WF in a while since we dont have, but 114 without
silk bane
dont infest this channel with sub and outlaw brains(they are both outlaw brains)
take that back Madge
deft flicker
Flurry is that high just because we have literally zero cleave outside of it. Sin has fok, sub has storm, they both have dot spreading in rupture/garrote
Well, maybe blade rush but that’s a row 8 thing
subtle stream
I kind of miss blade flurry
vestal wren
i personally see BF as a enabler, you basically can cleave/aoe with it.
silk bane
this man litearlly said fok is aoe cleave susge
subtle stream
Yup. It was weird in SL being part of the single target rotation. But it hit…
BF, not FoK
vestal wren
BP is in a similar way, you basically need it to enable resonable aoe, secret more or less adds some passive cleave
deft flicker
Sectech is also a bit deeper into the tree
vestal wren
its a cooldown, so think its similar to what the other 2 trees have
whole girder
Anyone know if it’s possible to sim with the up coming tomorrow/Wednesday ?
royal lantern
i think Restless, RTB and BF are the 3 core things, but i am not sure if this is...
i mean, people will say RTB cus:
its the only thing you can see from a outside perspective, the rest is just "hit stuff with a sword", its the only real animation (same with assa and sub, rogue is really REALLY low in animations, its hard to tell what they are doing if you dont know rogue cus its all just some kinds of stabs/slashes)
and RtB cus the community has some weird fixtation on the ability beeing a big RNG thing that dictates your dmg
vestal wren
Anyone know if it’s possible to sim with the up coming tomorrow/Wednesday ?
i did put the lines you need in #tc-research link:#tc-research message
vestal wren
i mean, people will say RTB cus:
its the only thing you can see from a outside...
yes, question is if that makes it a core of the spec or not
deft flicker
I think dice are a core outlaw thing
deft flicker
And we get them pretty early on by following a route with other core things like adrenaline and restless blades
silk bane
the big core aspect of outlaw is beeing a knockoff fury warrior
outlaw is knockoff furry and sub is outlaw u order off of wish ripge
and sin is just the internet explorer of specs
royal lantern
and sin is just the internet explorer of specs
getting shit on by people that have no clue about stuff, because they think its clever and smart?
deft flicker
the big core aspect of outlaw is beeing a knockoff fury warrior
So we have a knock off feral, a knock off fury and a knock off ret with night mode. Truly one of the classes of all time
subtle stream
and sin is just the internet explorer of specs
Still better than Edge!
royal lantern
So we have a knock off feral, a knock off fury and a knock off ret with night mo...
what getting neglected does to a MF
silk bane
getting shit on by people that have no clue about stuff, because they think its ...
nah dude it was good like 10 years ago but now its just clunky and sad
royal lantern
when paladin gets sub gameplay and sub gets gloomblade 
silk bane
bro i feel like arcane is more similar to sub than sub
keen spruce
anyone ever go watch a paladin or warlock hit a target dummy
silk bane
legit having a blast playing arcane/fire right now
keen spruce
and just think about why our animations look like they're from 2009
royal lantern
nah dude it was good like 10 years ago but now its just clunky and sad
honestly, idk why people always say "assa so clunky omg" when it has the same flow for almost a decade now, and current assa has probably the most "fluid" gameplay flow by beeing never really energy starved
runic hinge
It’s just, sin’s capstone is instant multi dotting and it’s a 9 point investment into an aoe finisher. While sub and outlaw can get theirs for 1/2 points. The tree is really made for us to not do aoe things
keen spruce
I'm always dry af right before my 1:30ish sepsis
vestal wren
feral has some concepts that would be nice on assassination
ret/arcane has some concepts that would be nice on subtlety
not sure if there is one spec that has something that would fit outlaw
keen spruce
i think outlaw has the best design currently of the 3
silk bane
honestly, idk why people always say "assa so clunky omg" when it has the same fl...
internet explorer also has the same flow it had for the past 10 years. its kinda smoother than it was 10 years ago too :p
royal lantern
It’s just, sin’s capstone is instant multi dotting and it’s a 9 point investment...
tbf, IC is a mistake and should not exist if they want an actual aoe flow
like
keen spruce
not perfect but has a pretty fun, involved prio system
royal lantern
IC is a bandaid for the current situation
subtle stream
internet explorer also has the same flow it had for the past 10 years. its kinda...
IE is retired.
vestal wren
possible, subtlety is for as little change it got from the trees in a good position
subtle stream
IE is retired.
Ask Jeeves about it.
silk bane
IC is a bandaid for the current situation
thats the issue, sin is just bandaid on top of bandaid the spec. everythings a bandaid.
royal lantern
internet explorer also has the same flow it had for the past 10 years. its kinda...
i like how you say IE when IE doesnt even exist and its edge for 5+ years now
sums up outlaw brains perception from assa tbh, shittalking about points that dont even exist
(not an insult to you)
keen spruce
can't buff IC cuz it would be too strong
silk bane
i like how you say IE when IE doesnt even exist and its edge for 5+ years now <:...
i dont play outlaw Susge. I play sub/sin. also Ie is just a meme. yeah its edge now but edge is basically IE with a pretty bow on it
also i hate how microsoft is forcing all the weird bs with edge and chat gpt oh u want this plugin? use edge. bro fuck off
royal lantern
can't buff IC cuz it would be too strong
its not about to strong
its more like, IC limits multidot rewards really heavy
cus everything that rewards multidotting also has "yeha but IC makes it instantly max" in the background
keen spruce
manual multi dotting would require garrote to have no cd
and for our dots to do enough damage to be worth the globals
and for adds to live long enough to make it worth
subtle stream
FoK —> Rupture, right?
keen spruce
if we had shuriken storm cp generation it would be okay
but fanning 17 mobs and getting one cp
makes me wanna eat broken glass
deft flicker
feral has some concepts that would be nice on assassination
ret/arcane has some ...
Might be a weird idea, but maybe Breath of Sindragosa would be good on outlaw
keen spruce
like KIR could be a passive rtb extension thing that works like breath 
weak plover
Passive KIR sounds poggers
keen spruce
idk i think ol seems fine atm
just overshadowed by sub but it's kinda cranking in all content
runic hinge
It’s interesting to me that they made shadow crash just better ic and it’s not even a capstone. It’s a little different because shadow doesn’t rely on their dots for all their damage but Jeeze it seems good
vestal wren
ironically "spin to win" would possibly fit outlaw
the spec has a warrior vibe to it
deft flicker
Warrior is more of a brute force thing, outlaw is more of a duelist finesse thing
keen spruce
buccaneer could be it's own class
silk bane
ironically "spin to win" would possibly fit outlaw
fuu make an outlaw called Garen, then macro DEMAAACIAAA everytime you bf ez.
deft flicker
So idk if a Bladestorm thing would fit otherwise very dynamic spec
royal lantern
Warrior is more of a brute force thing, outlaw is more of a duelist finesse thin...
i mean yeha, outlaw is a swashbuckler
keen spruce
OL already sort of gangplanky
vestal wren
i think there was a missed oppotunity with outlaw
making outlaw the finess/rapier fighter
keen spruce
then make a sword one hander, beer offhand for the rapier thing ^
slate scarab
They could fix Sin AE rotation by just making Crimson Tempest instant damage or a very short dot instead of what it is.
keen spruce
and a cannoneer
vestal wren
would also allwoed it to differ from warrior more
sweet dawn
Imagine an ability for outlaw that's GP barrels that you place and only you can damage
and they all blow up
vestal wren
fuu make an outlaw called Garen, then macro DEMAAACIAAA everytime you bf ez.
thats how i play warrior
silk bane
OL already sort of gangplanky
dude 200iq. give outlaw oranges. heals them based off of hp missing + get out of cc
keen spruce
Imagine an ability for outlaw that's GP barrels that you place and only you can ...
i said this and everyone called me an r-word
sweet dawn
Oh shi
royal lantern
They could fix Sin AE rotation by just making Crimson Tempest instant damage or ...
congratz, you just invented [Black Powder]
sweet dawn
Or the new feral druid basically
vestal wren
outlaw had cannon barrage
keen spruce
no no
make buccaneer a class:
ol same
cannoneer get's tristana/cannon barrage
rapier one handed boi
vestal wren
slate scarab
I didn't say I invented the idea, just that it would fix it. FoK is still a dot, but I can live with that. 😆
cursive frost
All I can picture is inigo Montoya from Princess Bride
keen spruce
could bring back manual multidotting with CT as a capstone that extends ruptures and garrotes instead
delete ic
and probably does other stuff cuz that would be dogshit by itself
idk kinda fried
vestal wren
i think i asked this early in beta already
keen spruce
i'm just throwin pickles at the wall
vestal wren
but i don't remember the answer.
Is IC something positive or not gameplay wise?
for me it kinda felt like manually applying rupture was part of the skillset of assassination
keen spruce
given how much single target we lose speccing into IC it should just be a passive
vestal wren
not saying its a great mechanic, just it seemed like a core gameplay element
wraith cosmos
manually applying rupture was a chore
deft flicker
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Cannonball_Barrage
That’s a vibe for sure
keen spruce
but i also agree about manual multi dotting
not a great mechanic but was kind of classic assas loop
wraith cosmos
also higher fort keys you have to reapply anyways at a point so honestly IC is a big plus taking away barely anything mechanically
keen spruce
I would rather have a capstone like I described that increases in power the more efficiently you multi dot
like have it's damage scale off how many ruptured/garrotted targets it hits
and extend bleed durations
so the old assas ramping AoE comes back
vestal wren
aoe exsang
silk bane
but i don't remember the answer.
Is IC something positive or not gameplay wise?
i think most people dont like Ic because it supports bleeds being weak since you just get them out easily, also people dont like that other multi dot specs can just ge their aoe dot spread far up the tree like ferla and spriest but for sin its a capstone). but more casual newer sin players i think enjoy IC cuz it helps them actually do something in aoe insteda of running around helplessly. another thing Ic helps with is lowish keys where packs would die before u can multidot without IC
silk bane
pretty sure those words aer illegal around here
vestal wren
i think most people dont like Ic because it supports bleeds being weak since you...
i think part of the problem is more that there is no real exciting filler once you have bleeds applied
keen spruce
u can exsuck my nuts with that kind of heresy
wraith cosmos
envenom PB fishing
silk bane
i think part of the problem is more that there is no real exciting filler once y...
its more than that, its that theres no direction for AOE fillers. with TC, if you spam it, then youre wasting the dot since youre over writing previous dot, but it does do aoe on hit damage. with envenom youer donig single target in aoe and hoping that you proc poison bomb and everything is stacked inside your poison bomb. its just terrible design
wraith cosmos
also yea, fan is just...eh
keen spruce
cuz you can just get kicked in the nuts for 1cp randomly
silk bane
yeah fna is also dumb af
vestal wren
exactly, so no exciting filler to use once you have bleeds up
wraith cosmos
fan id say is my biggest gripe with aoe
silk bane
u fan and go to 2 cp like okay i guess ill just jump out the window thanks blizz
wraith cosmos
i dont mind envenom pb fishing
if there were reasons to prio certain mobs getting aoe dots out and dm focusing an add would be fine
but it feels like these dungeons dont really have that
deft flicker
@vestal wren now that I’m thinking about it, the idea of a cannon barrage-themed Ravager sounds very appealing. Like you mark a zone and it gets bombarded for 5-8 seconds while you continue doing stuff
silk bane
exactly, so no exciting filler to use once you have bleeds up
yeah, but also people want the bleeds to be strong. because then that makes sin very strong in low target cleave. but if you can get your bleeds up instnatly with no effort. then by default you cant have strong bleeds. which then kills your low tsrget cleave as well, making you a single target bot
keen spruce
well yeah we'd rather have strong bleeds than IC
assas always had ramping AoE and the skill cap was efficiently managing and spreading dots before dumping into harder hitting finishers. timing that transition was sort of the whole skill expression
wraith cosmos
i feel like for multi dotting the old way to feel good wed need something better than what fan is right now
keen spruce
fan should just be storm
wraith cosmos
doesnt have to be storm
deft flicker
Maybe make it trigger extra cp from applying poisons as well
royal lantern
fan should just be storm <:shrugFreg:1002602382292684892>
"generate a CP for each target hit that has an active Bleed effect"
there you go
no copy paste storm, better then the current version
wraith cosmos
that could work
it just sucks getting low crits on fan while also having to reapply garotte for 1 cp on targets
runic hinge
Why does garrote have a cd again
keen spruce
storm onyx
Why does garrote have a cd again
Was introduced for pvp if I remember right
CD should go imo
keen spruce
it's always had a cd
but sure put the cd in pvp
or leave the cd in pvp
and get rid of it for pve
nova flax
Wait why is @balmy condor a PURPLE NAME NOW
storm onyx
it's always had a cd
I am hazy; kind of remember at some point in classic it didn’t
nova flax
HUUUUUH
wraith cosmos
...it used to be a proper stealth ability with a silence on it
so didnt have a cd per say
storm onyx
Ah yea, right
deft flicker
Wait why is <@167090536602140682> a PURPLE NAME NOW
He ascended
keen spruce
tbc it silenced
storm onyx
Double/Triple garrote was bound to vanish
keen spruce
it silenced basically forever after that
in mop they removed the "behind the target" requirement
WoD they removed stealth requirement
and added the CD
and got rid of the silence ofc
devout mirage
!whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
balmy condor
Wait why is <@167090536602140682> a PURPLE NAME NOW
Nice of you to join us, internet explorer
ancient rain
1 more day before the assa rework announcement! I'm so hyped!
thin scroll
is that what copium overdose looks like?
gusty mirage
he'll eventually be right
lavish hazel
how many tea with use at opener
gusty mirage
1 with opener, then as you need energy
royal lantern
he'll eventually be right
2028 soon
spiral pasture
.7 waiting room
gusty mirage
2028 soon
hey man, one day he'll be right
and you'll all see
@royal lantern wait until you see the latest bomb that's gonna drop
royal lantern
<@346293680883236864> wait until you see the latest bomb that's gonna drop
huh
royal lantern
oh yeha
gusty mirage
Cev's typing it as we speak
gusty mirage
it takes a lot more than that to scare a Finnish person