assassination

[frigid pilot]

and they gonna get PI too

and flex details meters

[turbid heath]

how are spriests simming atm?

[thorn fjord]

They're looking to be pretty strong

[gusty mirage]

Very good

[turbid heath]

fs

[thorn fjord]

Little goober ghosts gonna be bussin

[frigid pilot]

im so broke i need pvp boosts to come back pls blizz

[granite walrus]

Buff/hotfix holding pattern

[thorn fjord]

So is bnet just in a perpetual state of being ddosed now?

[tulip trout]

!Whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[storm belfry]

Lizard squad /s

[frigid pilot]

so who wants PI?

[spice surge]

Give it to a sub rogue and watch the entire raid roster mald

[spice spire]

Demo an outlier tho, yeah?

[earnest remnant]

uhh

there is like 3-4 specs up there

at the 140k area

[spice spire]

It’s like demo and one more is wildly out of hand.
While the middle of the pack from 3-18 is pretty well balanced. And the bottom needs a little to come up

[gusty mirage]

It’s only demo, enhance, elemental, fury, destro

[spice spire]

Unfortunately rogue in the bottom

[gusty mirage]

And like 2 others

Sure one outlier

[spice spire]

Wasn’t fury like 138?

[gusty mirage]

That’s 4th or 5th

[spice spire]

Ele dropped I thought

So it was like

Enhance and demo

Way out of line

[storm belfry]

Elemental still blasting even after tier nerf yet their tears are still coming

[gusty mirage]

Yeah from 170 to 138

Lmao

[storm belfry]

“Those sims ain’t accurate bro. We are ass”

Mf shut up

[spice spire]

Yeah 138 is fine given most of the middle I feel.
We’re just uh. Outliers on the other side

[earnest remnant]

a little outdated but

[storm belfry]

Quite the doomers over there man

[spice spire]

Eh almost 140 ain’t it

[vestal wren]

disclaimer for what?

[gusty mirage]

Your stat prio for the assassination sheet

[spice spire]

Nvm they should get like a hair fown

[vestal wren]

oh, its not updated

moment

[gusty mirage]

Ty sir

[vestal wren]

ill just remove it

[uncut echo]

Yeah that's outdated as hell, fury's in the shitter rn

[earnest remnant]

its 3 days old

[uncut echo]

Shitter

POOPIN'

[storm belfry]

Bro prot paladin

Needs a nerf

Wait where is Brew

And OL

[spice spire]

Not implemented fully yet

Outlaw is uh

[earnest remnant]

they didn't have committed sims when this was made

[spice spire]

Bugged to hell and back

[marble hemlock]

its kinda funny how 2 of the specs that literally can only do st

are at the bottom this tier atm

[vestal wren]

stat distribution is weird

just saying

crit > mastery > vers = haste from that

[spice spire]

Anyway, this bit seems fine. You could even argue that enhancement is fine since it’s just outside 10% top from the bottom. But I feel 7.5ish (quick maffs don’t check me) seems okay

[vestal wren]

was a copy/paste mistake i think

because assasssination was always crit > haste or mastery > vers last season

[earnest remnant]

whispyrs top sim is Crit>haste>mast in terms of stat allocation

[marble hemlock]

at what point was it ever crit>vers?

[lament aurora]

did you draw that with your finger

[spice spire]

I did

I’m at work man

[vestal wren]

always

profiles did use 5k crit

[marble hemlock]

im not arguing the crit

obviously

im arguing that vers was our 2nd best stat, when it wasnt

[vestal wren]

oh, it never was vers

it was a copy/paste mistake as i mentioned

[marble hemlock]

but you just said this

[vestal wren]

^here

[ebon notch]

devoker

[vestal wren]

yes

yes

Crit first

oh haste or mastery

typo

[marble hemlock]

yeah. and i asked at what point vers was our 2nd best stat. cause i dont remember that ever being the case

[storm belfry]

I am lost

[marble hemlock]

😄

[vestal wren]

i am not sure what is hard to understand

with

[ember mural]

[vestal wren]

"it was a copy/paste mistake"

[ebon notch]

where you get this picture from

[spice spire]

Literally above

[ebon notch]

where did they get the picture from

[spice spire]

Hmm

[marble hemlock]

nah, i was just referring to you saying again that it was crit > vers last season, when it wasnt 😄 but if that was a typo, that explains my confusion

[spice spire]

Idk man

[ebon notch]

hMMMM

[spice spire]

@earnest remnant where were you on December 18, 2008?

[verbal mantle]

trust the !whispyr process

[spice spire]

I need to know every single detail of everything you do.

[earnest remnant]

what day of the week was it?

[vestal wren]

but i didn't

[spice spire]

Thursday (1/7 shot)

[vestal wren]

where did i say that

i am confused

[earnest remnant]

it actually was

xD

[marble hemlock]

you just edited?

[spice spire]

[vestal wren]

i edited

[marble hemlock]

ye

[spice spire]

Running hot

[vestal wren]

because i had crit mentioned twise

[marble hemlock]

ye

[vestal wren]

ah okay, fair

[earnest remnant]

well if it was during the day it wouldve been Badminton training

[vestal wren]

you assumed

that crit > haste or crit > vers

means crit > vers?

[spice spire]

Ty.
Now where did you acquire the pic

[marble hemlock]

i didnt assume. i read what you wrote.

yeah if you write "crit > vers" i assume that you mean "crit > vers"

[earnest remnant]

thats my secret

[marble hemlock]

cause, well, thats what you wrote lol

but if it was a typo, it makes sense

[vestal wren]

i did write

" crit > haste or crit > vers"

[spice spire]

@ebon notch there you go

[vestal wren]

because i made a tyo for mastery

still would be crit > haste > vers

even if missunderstood

but its irrelevant

it was my mistake, i try to correct myself faster if i typo

[ebon notch]

ty

[marble hemlock]

yeah was just confusion caused by the typo

[grim tangle]

so sin is crit > vers? good to know.

[vestal wren]

ye sry, that was a mistake i made when copying formating stuff i assume

but nice find

[final star]

!whispyr

[cerulean nest]

so youre saying we wont be hamstringing our other specs by gearing sin lol

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[vestal wren]

if you gear crit heavy

you still have sub/outlaw want versa

and sin wants mastery probably over vers

[shell cloud]

Hey, coming back on the new patch. Stopped playing like 10.05 mostly outlaw but deep down in my heart i'm assassination lover. How does sin doing right now and in upcoming weeks?

[junior aurora]

at least sin and sub have super overlap with secondaries

[vestal wren]

but would be something interessting to sim, just how much you lose by going more vers heavy

[earnest remnant]

its more like Sub and outlaw

use the same

[vestal wren]

^

sub used to have more mastery

[earnest remnant]

assa is more crit>haste>mast>vers

where as sub and outlaw is crit>ver

[frigid pilot]

which bosses r ST vs aoe this tier?

[vestal wren]

haste seemed to fall off in s2

so probably crit > mastery > haste = vers

not sure entirely

[final star]

from whispyr st sim

crit > mastery = haste > vers

can even make an argument for crit > haste > mastery > vers

[vestal wren]

yes but also a lot changed

it is possible that neither of the profiles is perfectly optimized anymore

so haste having higher value is plausible

[verbal mantle]

but why theres a conflict anyway? whispyr deals with sin very well so trust his sims

done deal

[vestal wren]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/g2eSHQCsUP1U3yDThoGxfC

just to showcase what i mean

[verbal mantle]

[vestal wren]

but most of it could be a consequence of embellishments

i still would need to re-do all gear combinations again, because i did only a short update on the profile

[ember mural]

[vestal wren]

basially

this is the stats on the profile i used

[verbal mantle]

or we dont need that at all and everyone deals with the spec he handles

[vestal wren]

vs. from whispyrs

[final star]

whispyrs profile

literally sims within margin of error

[verbal mantle]

is this a cock length contest?

[vestal wren]

kieron

[final star]

stop

[vestal wren]

let me explain

[verbal mantle]

[final star]

no

[vestal wren]

while it says 128k

it is lower because the shoulder embellishment was updated

and is now not bis anymore

[normal mist]

Fuu, stop using reason

And data

Just stop

[vestal wren]

i did updated my profile for it yesterday to present that correctly

but again

stats might be wrong because i didn't re-run absolute everything

this is also why i put WIP on top

[final star]

[vestal wren]

also just to say this straight up

it is possible that toxic boots might also change

in value

[marble hemlock]

can we maybe like not give stat prio recommendations based on what stats the topgear has? cause like, depending on embellished items taking prio, you happen to end up having more vers, even though its not the more useful secondary. but becasue items you HAVE to wear have it, it ends up higher than haste/mastery etc.

[vestal wren]

just because implementation updates and blizz changing a lot of stuff atm

[marble hemlock]

people will use stat prios for gems and stuff

itll never be preferable to gem vers over haste

[vestal wren]

you always sim for gems

[verbal mantle]

so in the end all of this argument was useless and we should wait for more precisions because it's too early to throw 12 sims in a row with stuff half of us wont understand

[marble hemlock]

yeah. we do. many people dont. those are the people who read guides, and imo saying "vers > haste" is just flatout wrong. maybe thats just me, idk

[vestal wren]

but neither of the profiles show vers as big stat

[verbal mantle]

therefore pointless to give stats prio to ppl

[vestal wren]

so it wouldn't show as top one

[verbal mantle]

saved you some time

np

[vestal wren]

if people picked from stats

[cobalt hemlock]

i thought we used crit mastery gems was i doing it wrong whole patch

[spice spire]

But the stats aren’t the (major) difference in this sim. It’s shoulders (implemented and worse) versus boots (still currently working)

[final star]

I'm totally about to hit the griddy in #assassination chat

[vestal wren]

and they are usually crit/mastery or crit/haste

[vestal wren]

i am not sure at this point if he is memeing

[marble hemlock]

many people who are less informed or for example dont use sims regularly or at all, will see a "crit > vers=mastery > haste" recommendation, and then theyll buy crit+vers gems

[strange python]

Is it possible to re sim without echoing thunder stone?

[marble hemlock]

and thats just wrong

[strange python]

Or replace it in the profile?

Unless something changes between 10.0.7 and aberrus I'm pretty sure echoing thunder stone isn't replicable in game

[marble hemlock]

obviously things are still be optimized, were waiting for bugfixes etc.

[vestal wren]

but the profiles have crit/haste gems

and as mentioned before it was a mistake, that was corrected

idk why there is such a high incentive to iterate over that

[marble hemlock]

yeah, its just a general thing, id rather that we're pretty careful with recommendations until things are settled a bit better

otherwise confusion/miscommunication are just guaranteed

[vestal wren]

yes exactly

this is why the message in #subtlety is worded like it is

[marble hemlock]

because people see 2 high profile and knowledgeable people presenting info, and its conflicting info.

[cobalt hemlock]

i was not memeing was i a big dumbo?

[subtle stream]

It’s looking like either of the toxic boots + patch, right?

[vestal wren]

yes, but this is basically the problem of early development

but neither of the profiles does present what you complain about

[strange python]

Didn't max say embellishment tuning is coming? If so, nothing's set yet

[oak sky]

Blizzard max man

[brazen zodiac]

:o

[vestal wren]

think he only mentioned tuning

so nothing specific

[strange python]

O

[cold spoke]

max said rogues are gonna be op guys

confirmed 20% aura buff

[strange python]

Rogue and warlock seems like the only obvious classes for tuning

Before raid starts

[late surge]

bm hunter looking rough

[strange python]

Although part of me wonders if blizz is being cautious because sub should be strong at the start, with annulet and eranog ring value

True. But they can at least play marks

We have the bench as an option

[late surge]

Just rename character to atrophic and ur fine

[proven jasper]

personally im glad bm hunter is all the way at the bottom 👅

[grim jay]

nerf rogue buff lock you mean ?

[strange python]

Ofc

[cerulean nest]

whats the last we heard from Realz

[strange python]

Vague stuff or off topic

[cerulean nest]

lit

[ebon notch]

jpc says that sub rogue will do 50% the damage of shadow priest in m+

[uncut echo]

Nice

[cold spoke]

thats sounds bit doom

doubt thats real

i mean how do you know

[ebon notch]

idk

he's been testing m+ pretty extensively with liquid from what ive heard

[cold spoke]

easy buff then

[royal lantern]

i mean yeha

rogue will start good

and then drop hard

[strange python]

I trust JPC on m+

Nothing else though

[cold spoke]

gonna lvl rogue in wotlk classic so im top dps again

[royal lantern]

sub gains 0 from 4set

will peak in week 1 or 2 with 2 set

and then just drop

[cold spoke]

epic set

[gusty mirage]

even after the "take rupture off your bars" fiasco?

[strange python]

Lol

[gusty mirage]

question everyone

[strange python]

I'll never question whispyr.

[ebon notch]

imma question you in a min

[gusty mirage]

I'll question everything

even if I sound stupid questioning it

[ebon notch]

anything and everything you say can and will be used in a court of law

[strange python]

Question how your life ended up at this point

[oak sky]

Question playing rogue

Am i wrong?

[strange python]

Wow that was way meaner than intended

[gusty mirage]

every single day

[ebon notch]

are you ready to bend over

[gusty mirage]

literally every day

[strange python]

I'm very excited to be a bench gamer

[earnest remnant]

[strange python]

I can play new Zelda

[gusty mirage]

I didn't even see it as mean

what does that say about my self worth

[ebon notch]

see what as mean

[gusty mirage]

your mom

got em

[cold spoke]

[ebon notch]

she is mean tho

dont make me sad

[cold spoke]

no yours

[ebon notch]

[gusty mirage]

there there friend

at least we have world of warcraft us to distract us from the inherent sadness that is our lives

[ebon notch]

bro we were talking in raid the other day

about our parents and shit

[strange python]

It's Zelda time

[ebon notch]

everyone had very similar stories

[oak sky]

Eu wow family lives

[indigo ginkgo]

are the quest trinket really perfoming better at 411 then the one from the raid for us

[final star]

@gusty mirage

god

ur so kissable

[gusty mirage]

gonna have to sim it brotha

all of them at 411 were worse for me

[earnest remnant]

true and based kieron

[gusty mirage]

weird you must be looking in a mirror

[indigo ginkgo]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3C9htUtqZ6kMNAzkaD9cMa

[gusty mirage]

ya if you have heroic trinkets still

[final star]

😮

[gusty mirage]

the new stuff should be performing similar/better

[strange python]

Well yeah, your raid trinket stinks

CCT isn't very good

[indigo ginkgo]

i was just seeing if i got a surprise, did it just cuz nothing to do

[gusty mirage]

baddie with a FATTY

[indigo ginkgo]

wasnt expeting

[gusty mirage]

the new trinkets seem cool

I wish they outsimmed the shit I have

[indigo ginkgo]

ahahaha

[strange python]

Raid trinkets cringe

[final star]

badonkadonk

[slate forge]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[tawny junco]

Hi dax

[lament pivot]

hi everyone! so for what I've read... rogues will be having a really rough time in 10.1? Thought assa would be at least decent in M+ and good at raiding

[subtle tundra]

[burnt latch]

its good depending on what u like

for me assa is good for example

[final star]

if you like doing piss damage on all 3 specs

it's pretty alright tbh

[cold spoke]

fear not buffs are coming

[lament pivot]

😄

[balmy condor]

Depends on what decent means

If you’re good at assa, you’ll still roll the idiots who can’t go higher than +7

But you’re not going to keep up in 22’s

[cold spoke]

im sure your guildies will understand

dont laugh at him guys its not his fault

[subtle tundra]

🤓

[balmy condor]

Yeah

Last weeks buffs

That brought us from unplayable to bad

[subtle tundra]

awesome!!!

surely we will also get tuning for aoe cause m+ is a thing

[lament pivot]

@final star you said it all.. was planning on going back to 10.1 to rogue (played outlaw since BFA) but wanted to try assa and have been reading guides, training, etc... guess I'll go back to shammy, war or even survival hunter (very decent so far)

[subtle tundra]

im like 99% sure we will get more buffs

[earnest remnant]

this week we get to go from bad to below avg

rejoice

[subtle tundra]

we have never been left as bad

[final star]

Coper

[subtle tundra]

not coping, just basing my opinion on past events

[dreamy falcon]

i pray for buffs, i dont wanna play sub this tier in m+ again, i find sub super boring in aoe

[subtle tundra]

first remove ic

[dreamy falcon]

but we havent been buffed all of s1, so i wouldnt expect any

[grim jay]

you couldve just played outlaw if you didnt like it, noone forced you

[vestal wren]

changes that bring us from bad to slightly less bad

[cold spoke]

never except when we were

castle nathria epic tier

[subtle tundra]

yes we did get buffed 5 times in cn

[cold spoke]

i also remember highmaul fondly

[subtle tundra]

my point proven

highmaul was a decade ago

[fleet pagoda]

[grim jay]

time flies

[balmy condor]

[subtle tundra]

omg max said its tuning day

FOk 30% BVUFFF

OMGUJHSDGUIJhuoi

[thorn fjord]

If max told people they would get a 10% dps increase by sticking a finger in their ass people would do it

[gusty mirage]

you're not already doing that?

[thorn fjord]

Tried once and it felt icky

[gusty mirage]

missing out tbh

tell him varas

[thorn fjord]

[subtle tundra]

yes dude

but max does talk to blizzdong

[storm belfry]

Think they would do a lot more than that homie

What does max know anyway

[pure tide]

dont get me back on this hopium train

[oak sky]

Thank you blizzard max

[deft flicker]

Maximillian Blizzard

[ionic fox]

Where can I see this full sheet?

[eager sorrel]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/az57nS2WrqMyyBJCP9ZiP9/simc

[ionic fox]

Thank you, outlaw not on here yet?

[tawny pike]

[spice spire]

Tier set man

[ionic fox]

ahhh

[spice spire]

Is it a flow stone angle

(Please for the love of god no)

[oak tangle]

i don't want to have to deal with leading a raid team where half the group want a trinket they can't roll on

[gusty mirage]

no

that's with bomb/fragment

and the wrong shoulders

[spice spire]

Ik that sim isn’t

I posted a sim earlier in [redacted] that was comparable

[gusty mirage]

you still a bitch

so

🐍

[spice spire]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/heY2TFLr1eXstLifYQVKzL

[dark token]

Is flowstone a significant gain over our current setup?

If theoretically blizz ignore it

[spice spire]

It’s like 1.5kish

Oh that’s right

The sim had flowstone on

[final star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ompA2gV3sLVwhfDj45RwRr

🙂

[spice spire]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ijnP8RB4pkh3mGMA32BQAn

[final star]

I am truly ethical

not a flowstone simmer

[spice spire]

Oh cba doing gems at work

[spice spire]

AMEN

There’s no way it makes it in

[final star]

let's be unethical

and sim it

with gemmies

[spice spire]

Legit I can’t aint no way hard enough

Ok papi

[median flicker]

Hey silly goober here this is old news right?

[limber lion]

Yes

Nothing new

[median flicker]

Thats what i thought

Just wanted to make sure i wasnt huffin

[spice spire]

Bro

I hate gem simming

[thorn fjord]

just go crit mastery and be done with it

[spice spire]

That’s often incorrect tho

[thorn fjord]

pfft

[final star]

I love gems

they are so fast

[spice spire]

First one replaced all gems

Within margin

We go agane

[thorn fjord]

did you mean agem

https://tenor.com/view/reptile-lol-hehehe-gif-5441436

[tawny pike]

Are we meta in Aberrus at least?

[cosmic prism]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[proper tapir]

No but if we cared about being meta we wouldn't be playing sin in general.

[final star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/59GXJCMKXVpFZEiCMj65h8

unethical

[spice spire]

With annulet

[final star]

yuh

[spice spire]

[final star]

didn't run without

[spice spire]

I haven’t either

This bastard won’t hit 128.2!!

[final star]

let's run a ring sim

I LOVE GEMS

[spice spire]

Tuning waiting room

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[thorn fjord]

BELIEVE

[rocky ruin]

Tuning?

Massive buffs?

[proper tapir]

That's what people think

[rocky ruin]

Like 3% Dmg for all abilities

[spice spire]

Massive

[gleaming stratus]

sim with Toxic boots

[final star]

you mean

[vital haven]

imma be a doomer and say because they released that blue summary post there wont be more tuning

i hope im wrong and dumb

[timber kelp]

How does this compare to other specs in the grand scheme of things?

[final star]

within margin

[oak sky]

Nah blizzard max said tuning

[gleaming stratus]

gotcha

[final star]

WW monk level

[timber kelp]

LMAO what are we coming to, assassin rogue and WW are doing same ST

[final star]

WW and rogue in general tbh

[timber kelp]

God that's so fucking depressing

[thorn fjord]

We thinking call to suffering is gonna be stronger than beacon for sin?

[timber kelp]

WW is still god tier in m+, you'd think assassin could get at least a little edge in raid ST

[final star]

no beacon is fucking insane

[spice spire]

Beacon legit nuts

[final star]

call to suffering seems worse than bomb dispenser even

[spice spire]

Also

The second you add a second ring

All gems go mastery if it doesn’t have it

[final star]

i'm running monster sim

max iterations or bust

[strange python]

The upside is that we're an obvious target for week 3/4 budds

Buffa

Buffs ffs

[royal lantern]

see you in 7hours

[spice spire]

I’m a loser with mid tier raidbots

[gusty mirage]

if you believe max

apparently it's tuning day

[spice spire]

5.5 max

[final star]

16M

[royal lantern]

but is it also push week?

[spice spire]

I mean historically Fridays have been tuning day

[gusty mirage]

it's always push week

[spice spire]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9K13VX9Mxg9vvEFvi1d6CW

[strange python]

I could've sworn max mentioned tuning in a convo about embels and trinkets

[random lynx]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[gusty mirage]

he tweeted " 👀 tuning day" today

fwiw

[timber kelp]

so another round of tuning coming out today/tomorrow?

[balmy condor]

What’s this

[strange python]

No annulet??

[late surge]

for blizzard max

[final star]

trinkies

[balmy condor]

Yeah thanks

I got that

[timber kelp]

I guess i can assume flight crash position, breathe deeply, and be patient

[balmy condor]

What spec what situation

[final star]

assa

5m st

[balmy condor]

Hm

[gusty mirage]

safe play

[balmy condor]

That’s very different from what I’ve been seeing

[gusty mirage]

50/50 shot we're good or we're shit

might as well just vibe out until we find out which we are

[strange python]

100% were shit let me doom

[gusty mirage]

accurate statement currently

can't argue with that

[spice spire]

It’s a 0.2% gain for a max pogger ring

[final star]

I reran using your baseline profiles without toxic shoulders

cos toxic shoulders worse now

[balmy condor]

Yeah but that shouldn’t affect trinkets

Idk why that shifted everything down

[granite walrus]

It'll be fine. The meta game this season for raiding rogues will be trying to beat the tanks on damage

[timber kelp]

LMAO

[queen pulsar]

Who's max ?

[gusty mirage]

liquid maximum

[balmy condor]

Flowstone being bad is wild, and beacon/bomb/nelth used to be in margin in all combos

[timber kelp]

its the theoretical maximum amount of liquid tears cried by rogue mains

[balmy condor]

Idk why shoulders would have an effect on it

[final star]

flowstone is at the top

under current equipped

[late surge]

top is flowstone/beacon I assume

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[timber kelp]

a fundamental constant of the universe known as Liquid Max

[balmy condor]

But flowstone was +1.5% before

[queen pulsar]

Does he have special attention from Blizzard ?

[final star]

because no toxic shoulders

[balmy condor]

Why does toxic shoulders matter

[limber lion]

Whispyr literally just said that here lol

[final star]

don't they also proc it?

[gusty mirage]

yeah he's leaked a few things over the last year or so

whether voluntarily or not

[balmy condor]

Sure but so does poison bomb

[gusty mirage]

blizzard talks to the top guilds all the time

[balmy condor]

And poison bomb can solo proc it enough to not matter

[final star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/p2YAmw62nja17eJp6wJzGJ

you tell me then

I've only done simple reruns of your baseline profile and picked biggest number

then iterated from there

[gusty mirage]

no cttc double shiv profile

[spice spire]

Oh

[balmy condor]

He left the stove on

[final star]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tFjYZGRcxxiz3nNU7VRhSU
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3pFwA7DzEzWaYgEL1yokHw

are the two I ran with talent profiles

cos iteration limit

[timber kelp]

there's an empirical formula for liklihood of rogues being buffed
buff chance = 1 - exp(-2pi(T_c / T_m))
where T_c is the number of tears cried by the average rogue main when comparing their raid damage to tank damage and
T_m is the Liquid Max, the theoretical maximum number of tears a rogue main can cry

[thorn fjord]

stop trying to hurt my brain plz

[spice spire]

This bangs

[sweet zealot]

I mean we r not worse than monks

[late surge]

assa is

[final star]

then from both of those I ran gem sims:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hDqjZfBVngXeTBi8P2DPB7
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rjUBm393gNiA3qrQEAeyh5

[late surge]

[craggy oak]

What a fall from grace though, we are not worse than monks atleast

[spice spire]

But

[thorn fjord]

Or bookies

[granite walrus]

This is why we don't get buffs. We've become so thick skinned over the years that we're incapable of producing tears.

[final star]

and now we get lost in the sauce

[spice spire]

We are

[thorn fjord]

Boomies

[final star]

cos this makes me lost

I should've named the sims

[timber kelp]

no worse than monks in ST, much worse in MT

[spice spire]

I am running cursed things rn

[final star]

2 talent build defo seem to be in margin of error anywa

[gusty mirage]

which makes the no-cttc even dumber

because if you enjoy manually refreshing snd you're sick in the head

[royal lantern]

yeha can we like

not even try to act as if no cttc is a thing

[final star]

I am a known freak

(I don't know what assa talents are)

[gusty mirage]

you're as much of a multi-spec freakazoid as infinitedude

[final star]

I am actually now a one trick my bio is outdated

it's a known fact

[gusty mirage]

guy has refused to touch assassination for 3 expansions

multispec freakazoid btw

[royal lantern]

perpetualbudy, the multispec freakazoid that will throw a small fit if outlaw is not the #1 option and then plays it anyway

[final star]

longlastinglad got nothing on me

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

[sweet zealot]

yepp thats me

if its ST then I got sub

[gusty mirage]

do you claim to be a multispec freakazoid?

[turbid heath]

Only just seen these 🙂

[final star]

they are a week old

[limber lion]

[final star]

so not sure how

[spice spire]

Last weeks yeah

[final star]

[limber lion]

Why are people spamming them today

[sweet zealot]

I claim to be a dude who does not play sin rogue

[inland dirge]

people are FIENDING for tuning

[final star]

rogue buffs

[gusty mirage]

well then you're chillin

[final star]

wait that's not google

[turbid heath]

I dont check stuff daily 😛

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

you should upgrade to this emote: 🐍

[timber kelp]

good shitpost

[final star]

don't check it weekly either then

[viscid spear]

How'd you know he was a Loot Snake?

[gusty mirage]

oh so he's a multi-snake freakazoid

[turbid heath]

dno why you're bothered when I check stuff man I was just saying I'd not saw the buffs is all /shrug

[spice spire]

True

[final star]

It's okay, we can't all be perfect and check the dates of posts

(I am perfect)

[turbid heath]

bro, i just said 'only just seen these' hahaha

[final star]

(don't engage with me)

[brazen zodiac]

o.o

[final star]

It'll only make me worse

We do not want another all might situation

[balmy condor]

Kieron are you lost or something

[turbid heath]

ur weird i kinda like it

but also kinda dont

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/stealth-snake-hidden-sneak-sneaky-gif-19645540

[spice spire]

I got the name change ready

[final star]

uh oh

is it the correct format

so jake and deeny can reconvene

[spice spire]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/opvv49geZss512HHbSPJbw

I’ve cursed myself

To hell

For 200 dps

[final star]

holy fuck he's cooking

[spice spire]

Nah

This sim is dead today

When flowstone gets fixed

God bless amen

[final star]

I ain't want it

[royal lantern]

😳

omg is that a amogus reference??????????

[spice spire]

Anyway

I hate this timeline

[royal lantern]

we all do

2012 was not the end of the world

it was the point where the simulation went funky

[gusty mirage]

how is this profile not DR'd on crit to fuck

[thorn fjord]

It was a quality John Cusack movie

[spice spire]

Bro

I have no idea

I am not cooking

[gusty mirage]

the neck is literally 1k crit

[spice spire]

The ring

Also

1k Crit

[frosty cedar]

any gamers have a forbidden list of tier set +% gains for specs

[spice spire]

Oh it didn’t

[spice spire]

Holy

[final star]

seems fine

[spice spire]

I thought it went the GIGA chad crit ring

Nah we’re good

I had more crit this season at some point

[spice surge]

Is it with crit flask or vers

[spice spire]

I’m 99% sure vers

[final star]

simc default :3c

[spice spire]

But let’s see

[unborn pendant]

What are the new Sarkareth dagger stats?

[final star]

my fave flask

simc default

[storm forum]

Mast > Crit

[gray crest]

its crit vers

heavy vers

[balmy condor]

Did it change

Yeah it’s crit vers

[storm forum]

im looking at the raid journal right now

[autumn beacon]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[final star]

journal may not be up to date

[gusty mirage]

that is an obscene amount of crit

wdym seems fine

[final star]

I want that crit, probably more as sub

[gray crest]

this is the buff we needed boys, daggers are now crit mastery instead of crit vers

[gusty mirage]

well good thing this is subtlety

oh wait

[gray crest]

sin not deadge

[final star]

ya but crit good

[balmy condor]

Aight so they changed stats on everything apparently

Plate boys are saying their tier changed

[spice spire]

Love the 11th hour changes

[gray crest]

time for whispyr to run sims all over again

[balmy condor]

Literally can’t until the hotfixes get pushed

[marble hemlock]

weapon stats are finally updated as well

[balmy condor]

[marble hemlock]

dunno if daggers changed

[final star]

ffs

[balmy condor]

Scroll up a lil

[marble hemlock]

make me

youre not my real mom

[final star]

Igneous Flowstone nerfed by 50% to both Crit and flat damage on High/Low tide from wowhead datamining

[marble hemlock]

i only read "everything" and "plate" and then assumed you meant armor and tier

[final star]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/igneous-flowstone-trinket-nerfed-by-at-least-50-332785

[oak sky]

So did we get tuning

Was blizzard max cooking

Not us i mean the game in general

[spice spire]

[flint tusk]

Time to resim literally everything

[shut owl]

I'd be shocked if secondary shuffling made enough of a diff to overcome tuning

[gleaming stratus]

Healer trinket? kek

[balmy condor]

It’s just a ranged trinket

Like it always should’ve been

[blazing jewel]

flowstone just got taken out back

[royal lantern]

all act SHOCKED now about that change

NOBODY saw that comming

NOBODY

😮

[viscid spear]

Well he probably runs around in underwear

[storm forum]

<.<

.>

[shut owl]

Honestly I'm surprised it got nerfed for everyone and not just trashed for rogues at this point

[uncut echo]

10-15%

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

Live Sim Update (Updated <t:1683550002:R>)
This is for my personal sims (command is !whispyr). Be aware that fuu maintains his own sheet (!fuu) and while the information will agree most of the time, keeping up with all the changes can be difficult, and we might have some conflicting info while things sort themselves out and flesh out our sheets. We are both human and have lives outside of raidbots, so with the time crunch currently, either one of us can easily miss something.

Update <t:1683550002:R>:
DTB+AP cleave situations have been added to the sheet to help give options for some of the non-single target fights coming in the raid.

Previous Updates:
Sims have been rerun to reflect the embellishment changes (we're slimy boots + toxic patch now. Toxic Thorn boots are oversimming because the heal procs are eating damage procs)

Stats on things are resimmed (changed nothing)

Trinkets unaffected by 4 piece whitelisting (not affecting external effects). The class trinket is terrible though post nerf, no clue why that had to happen.

[uncut echo]

You're fucking insane

[balmy condor]

Wdym

[shut owl]

what about a 10% nerf? then we'd sim with prot pallies? XD

[spice spire]

Because 10/15% aura buff isn’t a direct 10/15% damage gain. Still seems high with one very insane outlier and a few pretty egregious ones

[uncut echo]

In what reality has a spec seen a tuning pass of 10-15% overall net buff

That wasn't a fundamental class rework

[spice spire]

9.0 sin got a 28% aura buff or some shit

[royal lantern]

assa SL

lol

[balmy condor]

Hunter

Rogue during nathria

Boomkins multiple times

Mage this tier

[royal lantern]

how much did assa get again during CN? 25%?

[uncut echo]

I mean. Yes, I recall Nathria

I forgot to say excluding that but that was egregious as fuck

They were below tanks

[spice spire]

Multiple

[uncut echo]

Idk, it took weeks

Not a singular patch cycle

[shut owl]

"when has a class ever seen massive tuning, but not reworks, and not when they needed tuning bad"

[uncut echo]

Is what I mean

[gusty mirage]

[final star]

daps slow once again

[ebon notch]

oh didnt see was posted

im sry

i saw it when it got posted i just couldnt post it here

;-;

[burnt star]

Its ok. They used dev time to rework shadowpriest again

[final star]

poe?

[spice spire]

Bro if you saw it 30s later you’re 80s late

[burnt star]

And no shadowpriest that matters wanted a rework

[uncut echo]

Because devs work on the same classes

Gj

[final star]

IS POE THE FUCKING REASON ?!

[ebon notch]

im in a key

@final star come keys youre rusty

kreem is tanking

[burnt star]

The class tuning balance team and rework team seems to work on multiple class yes

[final star]

I wonder where I am rn

[grim tangle]

blizzard nerfing me by nerfing my best trinket :(

[heady drum]

boots + patch means slimy expulsion boots, right?

[weak horizon]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[spice spire]

For now

But hold

Item changes

And stuff happening

Can change things

Do not make an immediate decision, you have time

[heady drum]

yeah ait

yeah for sure

[spice spire]

[heady drum]

im prolly making weapon first anyway

[weak horizon]

Hodl

[spice spire]

I have to disclaim heavily

Because people will just

[eager solstice]

Best race for st? Don’t see it in the sim

[late surge]

tauren iirc

but it legit doesnt matter

[grim jay]

might be related to the impact being whatever

[spice spire]

Race = orc

[eager solstice]

Yea usually there’s a tiny significance

[spice spire]

In sim

[eager solstice]

How about ally?

[royal lantern]

tauren and dwarf have litearlly the same racial soooo.........

[grim jay]

and they both suck visually

coincidence? I dont think so

[empty hinge]

heckin love wow

heckin love blizzard

heckin love everything

[royal lantern]

good thing that racials dont matter and you can play what you want then

[eager solstice]

Yea I’m not feeling the cow

[empty hinge]

heckin love that trinket

[royal lantern]

then.........dont...........? it really doesnt make a difference in reality

if it would make a difference, way more people would play abomination gnome lmao

[thorn adder]

flowstone nerf

[grim jay]

unexpected

[steel ridge]

nerf? thats butchery

[grim jay]

oh lord have mercy

[uncut echo]

Good

Trinket was oof

[steel ridge]

they halved it

[royal lantern]

i mean, its both what they did there, not making melee use it and nerf it for ranged cus it was stupid strong

[gray crest]

Speaking of overpowered trinkets, when is the lock trinket gonna get nerfed

[empty hinge]

rip in pieces my dh

[steel ridge]

that begs the question, do they even do any math before they create things?^^

[grim jay]

its ptr

testing

realm

[uncut echo]

Yo fel hammer was the last exit

[empty hinge]

i miss mardum

[uncut echo]

I dont blame you

[open reef]

Give soul cap back, or deathmark cd red trinket

[grim jay]

that would

probably not changed that much

[tawdry willow]

Hi all, send me pls google doc assa 10.1, if it able

[queen pulsar]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[limber lion]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[near valley]

didn't guardian also get like a 50% aura buff?

[spice spire]

Close

[strange python]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[tawny pike]

they nerfed ignineous

our spec is fucked

[spice spire]

We wait

[storm belfry]

[chilly viper]

am i crazy or blindside procs more

[spice spire]

Ur crazy

No changes thus far

[chilly viper]

ahaha

[spice spire]

MAYBE we get bs changes from the leak (doubtful, they were very strong)

[past bobcat]

They are coming

[undone summit]

What leak ?

[spice spire]

Cope

[spice spire]

Last week’s leak, it’s irrelevant now

Everything was in the leak except it had a blindside change and was 1% lower on the aura buff

[chilly viper]

what was the changes on blindside ?

[gusty mirage]

higher proc chance

[vestal wren]

i already removed it yesterday from the profiles

so not rly that relevant

but from what i saw

dagger got a stat change to crit mastery?

thats quite good for sin

[spice spire]

Apparently

[runic hinge]

Time to join us

[vestal wren]

i am already part of all 3 specs

i like them all, just prefere to play subtlety

i wish for them all to play well

[cold spoke]

[runic hinge]

[vestal wren]

but i mostly run simulations for sin/outlaw and rarely do apl stuff. Most of the heavy lifting is done by whispyr and our cfs, they are all lovely individuals

[strange python]

Bs?

Blindside?

[spice spire]

Yes

[strange python]

Wasn't that alongside a list of other changes that actually did happen?

[spice spire]

No

It was omitted

[strange python]

Yeah that's what I mean

[spice spire]

Oh yeah

[strange python]

The rest of the leak was accurate ish

[spice spire]

That was the entire thing

[strange python]

Maybe later date or removed?

[spice spire]

Leak had bs changed and aura was 1% worse

Probably removed for the aura

10% in execute was a lot

[vestal wren]

👀 leak

[haughty flicker]

Leak the leak

[late surge]

Leak the leaked leak

[cold spoke]

leek?

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/green-onion-cook-cooking-cut-knife-gif-12366567

[blazing jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-animals-leek-cat-yes-thats-it-gif-12409068

[quaint nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/leekspin-gif-4657848

[plush delta]

nah you're right im getting way more procs since patch gone live

they are chaining back to back 5-6 times sometimes now

[chilly viper]

Right

[flat kiln]

Actually same

[woeful wigeon]

so sin outlaw or sub the kings spec ?

[gusty mirage]

demonology warlock is the kings spec

[late surge]

all are commoner specs

[gusty mirage]

or if you prefer melee

enhancement gamba build

or fury warrior

[woeful wigeon]

kk shame damme

[normal kite]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/aberrus-raid-trinket-tuning-hotfixes-neltharions-class-trinkets-and-hasted-rppm-332795

seems like nelth trinkets are nerfed as well

[dark token]

ur sleeping on dk

[winged quail]

UH gonna blast for a while

[gusty mirage]

not really

without PI they're doing 133/134 in bis gear

whereas demo is doing 140k w/o PI

and fury is doing 138 w/o PI

or 135

whatever it is

[winged quail]

damn knew Fury was good but that's nutty

[dark token]

ye but fury gets a 3% pi

and unholy gets 11.5%

soooo

[winged quail]

PI goes to Lock or Evoker > Dk anyway

[dark token]

priests are also quite good so room for udk and demo to both get PI

no, udk has more raw gain than evoker

[winged quail]

even with new tier?

[dark token]

yes

[winged quail]

fair

[gusty mirage]

if any class is being slept on

its devoker

watch

[winged quail]

feel like a lot of comps will have more than one lock tho

[dark token]

wdym devoker

its literally SSS tier

[late surge]

devoker op

[dark token]

in m+ and raid

[blazing jewel]

who tf is sleeping on devoker

[gusty mirage]

and yet no one's talking about them

people just talking about uhdk and warlock

[late surge]

#nerfdevoker

[gusty mirage]

also fury is under the radar

[dark token]

literally every ranged spec except bm is good

i agree fury under raider

[gusty mirage]

good

fuck bm

I hope they remain dogshit for the remainder of this game's life

and I hope azor's guild forces him to play just BM

[winged quail]

BM can be good once you need more than one finger and two braincells to play it

[gusty mirage]

ranged dps that can literally jump and dance

while doing damage

top DPS

makes sense

[earnest remnant]

buff sub, thats all, ty for coming to my ted talk

[marble hemlock]

@gusty mirage you left the door open again, the feral animals are coming into our place

[gusty mirage]

I like stealthi tho

[earnest remnant]

sub channel is on fire

so im hiding

[gusty mirage]

why

[marble hemlock]

okay, but you have to feed him and clean his litterbox

[gusty mirage]

what could sub have to complain about