assassination

[honest vessel]

U don't align

Just on cd

If it lines up it lines up

Never exsang after dm

[tacit oar]

On cd it should align back on 6"

Yeh okay thanks

[simple gulch]

You can align echoing reprimand and exsang

echoing rupture then exsang

[restive falcon]

will it be better to level on monday in warmode as alliance cause we get the bonus xp? rn on retail is a bonus 20%

[next edge]

Where is itr from?

[gusty mirage]

the method guide

[gusty mirage]

[next edge]

Im not forced

to get into the guide

I know there's a guide

but hte image is not on the pins

so i did nothing wrong

just loving you

[gusty mirage]

well then I guess no cool abbreviations tree for you either

[fallen arch]

This is awesome

[next edge]

HOneslty

im a visual learner too

so that way is way better for me

[dark token]

excuse me its called "mutilated flesh" why does it abbreviate DB, and "systemic failure" why does it abbreviate maim

[celest helm]

i pulled up the visuals and unplugged my keyboard for like 5min and ran through the keybindings for the opener trying to work in muscle memory

[fallen arch]

Dedicated

[gusty mirage]

because fuck you thats why

[celest helm]

I gotta put in that work to be benched by my guild

[next edge]

I do something similar

[dark token]

i just run 1-3 +15 dungeons till i get used to keybinds

[next edge]

Yeah I do the same too

both things are rly useful

[celest helm]

Yeah i throw myself in sink or swim anytime i change keybinds or UI especially i grind out 15s until it starts to click

[next edge]

Altough opener is not that gigaimportant. I mean, it is

but it's not something megadeciding factor

Im too bussy learning sub too

my musclememory is confuse

[spice spire]

You’re too

[uncut echo]

Oh my?

[next edge]

too what

turtle?

yeah. 😦

[spice spire]

Brother?

[next edge]

Sister?

What happens

[spice spire]

Reread it

[uncut echo]

Bussy

Btw

[spice spire]

Spotted a mile away

[next edge]

Maybe my brain is frozen

but I still don't get what's wrong

[spice spire]

Bussy doesn’t equal busy

[vestal wren]

just don't google it

[slim hamlet]

Well now I have to

Thank you very much fuu

[thorn fjord]

👀

[slim hamlet]

oh just that

[next edge]

oh

shit

[teal bloom]

[rain oyster]

how behind is ape braining DTB in m+ with CT and FoK to make up for aoe pitfalls.... % behind KB and IC build... hate the amount of buttons assass can have depending on build

[dark token]

not braindead at all

its not far behind

if you want to ook ook and focus on the key just run DTB

[rain oyster]

love poison bomb anyways

might be the play

[dark token]

what do you guys think the best binds for KB/IC are that are left here

im thinking shift q + shift e

[rain oyster]

or just outlaw for M+, raid assass

[slim hamlet]

Shift+v for KB is my go to there

But depends 100% on where you like to have your cds

[grim tangle]

it's close

[rain oyster]

def just gonna slap DTB, maybe even level as assass once i get the point for it at 71

[thorn crater]

61?

[coral fulcrum]

hi guys what spec will be the best one for rogue for raiding in dragonflight 🙂 ?

[slim hamlet]

who knows

[thorn crater]

cant tell yet

[slim hamlet]

Sin seems good tho

[thorn crater]

and dont forget there will be a tuning right before raid releases

[slim hamlet]

But changes usually come fast with releases

[thorn crater]

so what is good now might not be good then

[spice spire]

Best is a loaded question, atm, it goes st assassination, cleave outlaw, and big aoe (think like 10+) sub, so they all have a niche. Play what you enjoy is the best answer to this

[coral fulcrum]

is this one corect ?

[earnest imp]

Wups

[viscid spear]

Big
Uber
Sick
Styling
Yo-yo

[spice spire]

Tier lists are a pretty big meme, I wouldn’t rely on them for info.
They can be indicative, but this one seems false

[solar hare]

i think ive seen that before, pretty sure it has 4 rogue specs on it

[earnest imp]

Think from what I've heard of boss encounters it's gonna be really hard to justify playing sin in raids most of the fights, but time will tell

[spice spire]

Oh is this the combat rogue

[coral fulcrum]

what type of dps class do you guys think will be S tier season 1 in raid in dragonflight 🙂 ?

[earnest imp]

More excited about m+ with sin

[vestal wren]

the tier list is wrong

[coral fulcrum]

Ok

[vestal wren]

subtlety rogue is s tier

so is shadow priest

[spice spire]

[vestal wren]

both start with an S

[coral fulcrum]

What rank are Shadowblades ?

[spice spire]

Shadowblades are a step down from the top

Fuu is being a jokester

[drifting cloud]

It has 5 because its so good it has sub listed twice

[coral fulcrum]

i want to be a melee dps but unsure with one that are easy to play

[static glacier]

so does survival

[solar hare]

big

[vestal wren]

i was joking

[spice spire]

But tiers in general are a weird discussion. It’s best to enjoy what you play and learn mastery on it

[vestal wren]

but tbh tier lists are a big meme

[spice spire]

Easiest? Probably demon hunter

[static glacier]

I'd say tiers are as valuable as the definition you place for each tier

[vestal wren]

balance changes to quick and we have not enough informaiton to predict the meta

[static glacier]

is it representation, log damage, success rate

[spice spire]

There’s definite nuance to momentum

[static glacier]

etc etc

[royal lantern]

his programming alows humor?

[spice spire]

But it’s a pretty simple bit

[static glacier]

ngl I think the momentum thing is lowkey overexaggerated since the spec operates in 45 sec burst windows anyway

[vestal wren]

e.g. most of the "S tier" specs mentioned ended up OP in beta testing

[spice spire]

Fuu’s actually a very funny guy

[vestal wren]

this does not mean they didn't already got nerfed

[grim tangle]

what's the funniest thing he's ever said

[vestal wren]

i think the biggest meme was me complaining about 30 sec sims

[spice spire]

30s lust sims

[thorny pond]

bothered simming sin in 9.0

[thin imp]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[dark token]

anyone wanna share plater profiles they like

testing a bunch since i replaced kui np

[honest vessel]

this is mine https://pastebin.com/rTS6dz2p

[strange python]

Hello, right now with the current tuning, what is the best ST spec of rogue? Assa?

[thorny pond]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[thorny pond]

there ya go

[gentle apex]

Does shiv apply a concentrated version of both non lethals with DTB

Or just the first or

[honest vessel]

both i think

[grand trail]

only issue with kingsbane is, that i already have too many keybinds so i use double poison. Anyone haveving the same?

[fleet imp]

I use footpedal for KB

[raven egret]

I dont find sin to have too many keybind at all, the proportion of CDs is pretty high sure, but not that many keybinds

[honest vessel]

you aren't alone collapse, lots of people have come in here with the same sentiment

[little light]

just drop exanguinate ez

[gusty mirage]

yeah just drop the talent that's as powerful as a capstone

[dawn merlin]

Definitely a few keybinds more than we used to have

[little light]

also drop sarcasm who needs it anyway 😛

[gusty mirage]

just drop all the talents

fuck it

can't have too many keybinds if you don't have any

[little light]

only skill pog

[gusty mirage]

but for people who don't like the idea of shoving another keybind, DtB offers a good alternative

[dawn merlin]

With any luck we end up picking up CB or MfD somewhere down the road too

[little light]

I like kingsbane tbh

[gusty mirage]

our opener's looking like 11 unique spells w/ KB

kinda insane

[grand trail]

im messing with assa after i saw outlaw nerf 😄 outlaw is fast paced but not that many buttons lol

[little light]

if I had to remove something, remove ER

shit fantasy on that

[gusty mirage]

like

that's fucking massive

[honest vessel]

nothing to worry about, both are going to be competitive, so if you like outlaw more, do outlaw

[gusty mirage]

makes sense people are intimidated by it

[dark token]

You forgot thistle tea

[dawn merlin]

Not only massive, countetintuitive

[little light]

fml thistle tea xd

[gusty mirage]

in the opener?

[honest vessel]

i dont think you tea in the opener

too much energy from dm exsang

[copper hazel]

[gusty mirage]

he's just trying to sound smart

[little light]

no but its another button

[dark token]

You tea when out of energy right?

[honest vessel]

ye

[little light]

you tea when you are thirsty

[signal pier]

but tea is also 13% mastery? wouldn't that benefit opener quite well?

[honest vessel]

not enough

[dark token]

I could see it being used in the opener some point before exang

[honest vessel]

it's just better to hold for when you need the energy

unless whispyr just forgot it existed throughout all his sims lol

[dawn merlin]

5 globals dedicated to bleeds alone before using the cooldowns

Clunky

[dark token]

Like after the first rupture I think you could tea

[obtuse latch]

What was sin damage looking like in ST on beta?

[honest vessel]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz

[dawn merlin]

Great ST

[little light]

I dont know if you drop snd then

[dark token]

Awooga

[little light]

before you can envenom

[obtuse latch]

Was hoping for a rough number xD

[honest vessel]

tea is off gcd

[dark token]

Tea is off gcd yeah

[dawn merlin]

The sheet there has it

[little light]

ah

[obtuse latch]

Copy

oh... wow

[little light]

if its off gcd then maybe

[honest vessel]

yuh

sin gaming

~80 energy is a lotta dam

pretty reasonable that the mastery isnt worth that

[royal lantern]

say thanks to exsang

🙂

[signal pier]

thanks exsang!

[earnest remnant]

my young days growing up playing piano is gonna come in handy for sure

[gusty mirage]

[jaunty arrow]

I used to play piano too, now i can see reason why i stop

[grand trail]

the opener is crazy, but once you done it, its easy after. Whats correct opener for double poison build?

[honest vessel]

same thing minus kb

i think thats what the 'if talented' refers to

if im wrong im sure the guide would clear it up

[grand trail]

okay, but than im casting 4points rupture into exsa

[honest vessel]

oh does double poison build not use er

[grand trail]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kiFvXCoYvCDejn2Ppzp73x this one from fuu

[honest vessel]

that has er

idk what you mean by 4points rupture

[twin kite]

If exsang comes off cd and there is lets say 15 sec left on garrote and rupture do we refresh them and then use exsang? Or do we hold exsang for a little bit

[honest vessel]

and it doesnt look like that sim is using anything close to the same opener

you refresh before exsang comes up

[gleaming jackal]

refresh

[honest vessel]

so that you can hit it on cd

[grand trail]

im stupid, i did not have talented ER

[honest vessel]

all g homie

[grand trail]

did not notice if add more cp to it

[twin kite]

So no matter what we always refresh to max pandemic duration and then insta send exsang i guess?

[sleek nymph]

outside of deathmark yes

[twin kite]

yeye

[gentle apex]

So we wait for deathmarks bleed to fall off or the duplicated DoTs

[gleaming jackal]

dont exang during deathmark

[twin kite]

Isn't that the same thing? 🙂

[slim hamlet]

it is indeed

[visual shuttle]

Do anyone know if we can claim last vault from SL? Or is it lost, even tho you have something ready for it?

[willow rapids]

no vault next week

[visual shuttle]

So any vault progress this week is lost?

[willow rapids]

yes, also probably better to ask these things in #wow-general

[visual shuttle]

Yes i know.
But ty. Will stop it

[sour skiff]

is there a cap on Crit? or diminishing returns pas some point?

[dark token]

yes

100% is the crit cap

there are diminishing returns after a point (iirc 1k in the stat in SL)

From 0 to 30%, there's no penalty.
From 30% to 39%, there's a 10% penalty.
From 39% to 47%, there's a 20% penalty.
From 47% to 54%, there's a 30% penalty.
From 54% to 66%, there's a 40% penalty.
From 66% to 126%, there's a 50% penalty.
You can't get more than 126% from gear rating.

[sour skiff]

before the reading the guide my plan was going full haste with engeniering googles bracers and alchemy trinket

[slim hamlet]

Wait

[celest helm]

oh boy you would have been sad

[slim hamlet]

so u can actually get over 100% in theory

xd

[dark token]

yes but for crit specifically it does nothing

120% mastery does something tho

[sour skiff]

why?

[slim hamlet]

% dmg

[celest helm]

haste is our worst stat

[slim hamlet]

u can get 110% increased dmg

but not more than 100% chance for something

Oh not talking to me xd

[heavy coral]

What build should we be going for leveling

[sour skiff]

yea i read taht

[balmy condor]

No its not

Vers is

[raven egret]

In what world is haste our worst stat

[uncut echo]

It's actually avoidance

[celest helm]

oh weird when i looked at Fuu it said Crit>=Mast >vers > haste

[uncut echo]

But vers is worse than haste

[sour skiff]

googles and bracers engeniering gives you almost 1k on a single secondary stat, what shoul i put on? crit haste or mastery?

[uncut echo]

Googles

[terse otter]

i just want assa to be able to compete with most classes in raid/m+, i enjoy playstyle and gonna play it 😛 How they can play outlaw ? I mean.... rogue w/e daggers ? Dafuq ?

[uncut echo]

Its literally one of the best in raid

And v competitive in m+

[terse otter]

great, cuz i really like the playstyle

[oak sky]

Also outlaw uses a dagger

[honest vessel]

ahri that doesnt sound like mod simping, stop helping people in chat, ur not supposed to do that remember

[uncut echo]

UR RIGHT KIRA MB

[terse otter]

i allready saw Whispyrs twitch clips 48 times and im ready 😄

[balmy condor]

His sheet says vers>haste because with bis gear the stat plot spits out vers higher than haste past that point. It’s basically looking ahead and doing a stat weight sim for gear in 10.1

If you look at the actual bis gear, we have about 3x the haste

[oak sky]

Vers bad

[uncut echo]

I never input anything valuable in sin channel. I just suck George and Whisypr's dick

[balmy condor]

Put crit on it

[uncut echo]

I never help field basic questions

[celest helm]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-big-brain-time-you-at-school-meme-gif-17237588

[uncut echo]

Ty I almost forgot my place ❤️

[sour skiff]

haste with dragon tempered blades cant be that bad right?

[honest vessel]

npnp everyone's got their role

[balmy condor]

Sure, it’s the 3rd best stat

[sour skiff]

im getting old to keep track of to many cds

[balmy condor]

3rd place ain’t bad

[slim hamlet]

What's mine then

[honest vessel]

sorry, telling people their role is sirstabsalot's role

[slim hamlet]

oh ok

Then what is yours

[uncut echo]

Based as fuck

[honest vessel]

idk he hasnt given me one yet

[dark token]

yeah there were 1-2x i dropped below 100 energy in the opener and could use thistle tea

might be worth a mention

[uncut echo]

Ping them and find out LOL

[honest vessel]

i think i wont hahaha

[oak sky]

I gave myself a role

[sour skiff]

so everybody is going crit>matery?

[slim hamlet]

I'm going full vers and haste

stop me

🤓

[honest vessel]

im jamming int greys

[spice spire]

George is a dog homie 🤨

I’m having words w u 🤨

[onyx wind]

im going for stats

[uncut echo]

[slim hamlet]

I right click my highest ilvl piece

[oak sky]

Everybody is going the gear pieces the sim tells them

[balmy condor]

That’s the idea yeah

[dark token]

im going for speed/ sockets

[spice spire]

I love the robot

[slim hamlet]

Robot is my best friend

[oak sky]

The robot is really good at telling me how to build my character

And what rules to follow

[sour skiff]

im almost 50 i need my grandson to sim for me

[spice spire]

Yes man

[spice spire]

It’s easier than you think! I’m pretty sure there’s a command that takes you through it

[uncut echo]

U are known as george now, quakerman

Am sorry

[spice spire]

‘‘Twas a joke, I got it

Just being a bit of a shit

[uncut echo]

God I laughed so fuckinf hard

[spice spire]

[uncut echo]

Kira got me good

[thorn crater]

Still don’t get how Vers is better as third stat than haste

[oak sky]

Its not

Whispyr explained ut

It

[uncut echo]

Its just availability of highest ilvl gear had a lot of vers

[thorn crater]

Gotcha it’s cause fuu had it on his thing

[sour skiff]

can you sim online without actually having the gear?

[thorn crater]

With his name in the command

[balmy condor]

Yes

Droptimizer and gear compare can add items, and you can import from armory

Although armory imports might be missing some features

So gotta be a little careful

[sour skiff]

okok ill try that

[oak sky]

@thorn crater

[balmy condor]

You can also grab an old sim from your account

Since it holds that

[thorn crater]

Oh shit

Guess he has to correct that then

Ty agreon

[oak sky]

Its not really a correction exactly

He may have been trying to show exactly what it shows

Like what stats we would want once we have max gear

[honest vessel]

gotta spin that whole situation into something good c:

[oak sky]

What the hell happened

Did he say some weird shit

[spice spire]

No drama alert here pal

[honest vessel]

nah we were just joking about a guy that was bein cringe to him

[spice spire]

Check keemstar for that one

[honest vessel]

nothin going on now

[balmy condor]

Didn’t keem retire

[spice spire]

Who knows who cares

Tho tbf that could have been a boomer joke I made

[honest vessel]

tru

[oak sky]

A lot of people have been cringe lately

[uncut echo]

Nah fam be thankful you missed this guy

[honest vessel]

we've all been cringe at some point

[slim hamlet]

[honest vessel]

just be happy we aren't the one being cringe at this point in time

lol

[thorn crater]

Ye but from what I read there is no such bis gear in 10.0 so haste I assume is always better for now?

[spice spire]

@ me pal

[thorn crater]

That could confuse some people

[oak sky]

@spice spire

[uncut echo]

@spice spire

[neon kindle]

Why back to back garrote with sin on opener

[thorn crater]

can swap out one of them, but its no real dps gain/loss

is what sims said

since ure gonna vanish anyway afterwards

[uncut echo]

Isnt it pandemic to last until we need yo max pandemic it for exsang?

[neon kindle]

Gross its the warlock main

[neon kindle]

Gotcha

[uncut echo]

??????

[spice spire]

Shrouded suffocation - it’s a big builder plus like ahri said it lets you max pandemic for more Exsang dam

[oak sky]

@spice spire never forget that being a hater is free

[spice spire]

So it’s kind of two fronts

[spice spire]

That’s what I’m saying man

[thorn crater]

no but

[balmy condor]

@spice spire

[thorn crater]

if u just use one of them u still get full pandemic when u vanish

[uncut echo]

Ahh

[thorn crater]

u could swap one of them for ambush and it would make zero difference

[uncut echo]

Just more efficient for cp at lower crit right

[spice spire]

Alright dude damn

[thorn crater]

same thing

[uncut echo]

Based

[thorn crater]

that opening has an exact usage of cps

alwasy ends in one of 2 spots

[uncut echo]

Well with shrouded you have a guaranteed 3cp

[thorn crater]

but it doesnt matter

[uncut echo]

And with seal you have a 2 potentially 3

[thorn crater]

since u use ER to get the 7p rupture

whether u get 2 or 3

u immediately renew the rupture to full with ER rupture

so its zilch diff

[uncut echo]

Valid

Ty for the clarification!

[oak sky]

The ambush is like a zdps increase

[thorn crater]

no problem

[neon kindle]

[uncut echo]

And arguably doing 2 garrotes is a nice margin of error for exsang dm set up

[neon kindle]

Gracias

[uncut echo]

Lock main tho

[neon kindle]

True

[thorn crater]

zero margin for error

there is literally zero diff

[uncut echo]

Well, you see

Someone may be dogass

Like myself

🤌

[thorn crater]

and forget to vanish garrote? 😛

[uncut echo]

YEEEEE LMAO

[thorn crater]

i mean

TECHNICALLY

even if u forget

its fine

but dont let whispyr hear you on that

[spice spire]

If we’re about to

I’m gonna need it to not

[thorn crater]

u can just vanish garrote after it ends inside DM

it just never syncs again and u always use on cd

[uncut echo]

Pog lmao

[thorn crater]

you should get used to using them together though

makes it smoother to play in total

[oak sky]

Just learn the opener sequence

Real muscle memory shit

Until something gets parried

[spice spire]

You should learn to get some bitches

[dawn merlin]

;-;

[spice spire]

Also don’t

[oak sky]

All i do is try

[oblique tangle]

Yeah like what's the dps increase on that, like 50?

[uncut echo]

Bitches are overrated

[oak sky]

No they aint

[oblique tangle]

I need to keep my vanish for if we wipe

[uncut echo]

I promise you, we are

[oblique tangle]

You know?

[thorn crater]

im not at liberty to discuss that

ok but for real its the same pretty much

[uncut echo]

King shit

[oak sky]

Why would you keep vanish for a wipe

[dark shoal]

Repa cost

Fair enough

[thorn crater]

to reset boss and not have to repair

[oak sky]

L

[oblique tangle]

Because I ain't paying my repair bill because my healers suck, man!

[spice spire]

I also make the guild pay for repairs

Because I’m a menace

[thorn crater]

did u always have that dog for an image

[oblique tangle]

No, I added her a while ago

[spice spire]

Ever since I’ve gotten George, he’s been my pfp. I love him

[thorn crater]

why yellow name

[oblique tangle]

Yellow takes prio over the red

Idk complain to the role guys

[thorn crater]

i mean that still means u outlawgaming

[balmy condor]

We shuffled the role ranks on April fools one time

[willow rapids]

so he's stuck in the past

[uncut echo]

That's fucked

[spice spire]

God bless

[thorn crater]

always had the question why blue is the prio color

guess its random

[heavy coral]

do we have a macro of some sort so when blindside procs it's in the same spot as mutilate?

[spice spire]

Too many orange sub OTPs

[spice spire]

Not anymore

It used to be

!bs

[prisma monolith]

Macroing Ambush to Mutilate only works with the use of a addon.
It comes with the downside that it often requires multiple key presss.
Suggested addon to use(Gnome Sequencer):http://tiny.cc/mxb6tz
Showcase Video: #assassination message

[heavy coral]

[balmy condor]

Yeah one of thems gotta be top I guess

[spice spire]

But with conditionals added, unsure if it works

[balmy condor]

But now we can’t change it cause hell breaks loose

[heavy coral]

I guess im just gonna bind it somewhere

[thorn fjord]

I embraced red

[spice spire]

Bless

[vestal wren]

probably depends on the placement of the role in the hirarchy

[thorn fjord]

Red is the last to take precedence

[slim hamlet]

what is "defias brotherhood" role btw

[oak sky]

Would be cool if you could choose which one of 3 equal choices had priority

[oak sky]

Patreon patron

[thorn crater]

so wait sub is above the other specs in the hierarchy? 😛 kek

[vestal wren]

yes

it just is ordering

[next edge]

Sin players

[thorn crater]

u mentioned hierarchy though. someone put sub above the other specs since it sure as hell aint alphabetical

[viscid spear]

Crimson Red

[vestal wren]

i am sure it is just randomly ordered

nobody did order it on purpose

[oak sky]

Moglord??!

[vestal wren]

but it is possible that assassination was created later as a role and ended up at the bottom that way

[thorn fjord]

Where do I drop $$ patreon

I’m trying to be special

[vestal wren]

because we had initially poison and bleed role

on patreon ^^

[thorn crater]

i get you it just never made sense since usually order goes either alphabetical or from left to right and that way assassination has always been the first spec rogue players see

[oak sky]

Dude who cares

Its just a role in a discord

[thorn crater]

its random thoughts

with no meaning

bruh there is really nothing to talk about until tomorrow

wym

[dark shoal]

I find Resounding Clarity more difficult to manage with Seal Fate talented, am I the only one?

[slim hamlet]

Hold there are more people with sub mark than outlaw?

[viscid spear]

[neon kindle]

sub is on top for obvious reasons

[spice spire]

We have a mog lord

[viscid spear]

Sub is usually on the bottom in regards to outside WoW

[thorn crater]

in the role selection on the welcome page outlaw shits on both dagger specs 😛

[neon kindle]

thats the obvious reason. because we normally bottoms

thanks for pointing it out

[viscid spear]

I pick all three specs, my color stays the same

[spice spire]

Mage main, disregard

[oblique tangle]

Makes it really easy to find my name in discussions though to catch up lol

[thorn crater]

trueeeeeee

[willow rapids]

time to just mix the colors if you choose more than 1 spec

[slim hamlet]

Moglord is the coolest one

Imagine that

[spice spire]

Just one moglord

[oblique tangle]

I asked about this for fire mage with scorch vs fireball and they just told me to stop being lazy and play the game

[slim hamlet]

Who is the elusive one?

[oblique tangle]

Dude I'm too high to realize when the boss is below 30% :(((((

[thorn crater]

i mean they are right

u barely have 4 buttons

[slim hamlet]

No, illegal

[thorn crater]

might as well press them 😛

[oblique tangle]

It's five thank u v much

[uncut echo]

How bad is fire rn

[thorn crater]

u count timewarp?

[oblique tangle]

JUST LIKE ROGUE

[slim hamlet]

Tell my 38 keybinds that m8

[oblique tangle]

Fireball fire blast scorch pyroblast the Phoenix flame thing

[thorn crater]

forgot rune of power

oh shit

[spice spire]

Boomer needs less keybinds

I can’t untag

Fuck

[uncut echo]

If I need less binds

Ill go havoc

Lol

[spice spire]

[thorn crater]

cant go lower than fire mage

surely

[spice spire]

Outlaw rogue we have at home

Yeah but fire is weird sequencing - fun spec

Filthy hero class tho

[thorn crater]

i went to the outlaw channel once

for a couple of minutes

i read that outlaw has more buttons than sin

never went there again

[balmy condor]

Y’all play devastation

That shits 3 buttons

[slim hamlet]

Damn, I hope you're alright

[uncut echo]

Shit's negativr buttons

Same with vengeance

[spice spire]

Yeah but tombrady is still a champion

Vengeance no buttons huh

[thorn crater]

yo

thats definitely not true

wym

[spice spire]

I’m ready

[thorn crater]

vengeance needs to press buttons

[spice spire]

Idk shit about dh this tier of dh except momentum havoc

[thorn crater]

ye vengeance actaully has spells

[spice spire]

So I’m going to blindly trust her

Dh alt inc

[dense cedar]

DH is quite dull

[uncut echo]

What

Vengance has like 5 buttons

[thorn crater]

u cant say that

u actively use all runes

• jump

plus immolation

[uncut echo]

JUMP IS SPACEBAR LOL

[thorn crater]

plus the 2 defensives

[balmy condor]

• jump

[uncut echo]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[spice spire]

• jump

Huge

[thorn crater]

and u better take the spirit bomb

[slim hamlet]

You basically have 3x the apm as any other melee

[uncut echo]

No, bomb is dead lol

[slim hamlet]

cuz you can jump 3x as much

[spice spire]

big button

[thorn crater]

is it?

[uncut echo]

Rn yes

[thorn crater]

fuck

[slim hamlet]

Huh

[thorn crater]

havent played dh since bfa

[uncut echo]

M+ is low pull count

[thorn crater]

early

[slim hamlet]

wasn't like 1 week ago

what happened

[uncut echo]

You soul cleave bruh

[slim hamlet]

You used spirit bomb on 2+

[thorn crater]

but ye vengeance has buttons

[slim hamlet]

with 4+ souls

[oblique tangle]

Honestly such a fun spec

[uncut echo]

Soul cleave is > bomb

[oblique tangle]

Rogue envenom should be off gcd like fireblast imo

[slim hamlet]

Dorki has lied to me then

[uncut echo]

Trust dorki over me

My knowledge begins and ends at prepatch

[spice spire]

[uncut echo]

But I got 2700 on a 290 vdh

[spice spire]

I’m still gonna blindly trust

[uncut echo]

After playing it for 2 weeks

[spice spire]

Because ur a gamer

[uncut echo]

Didnt press bomb once

Lol

[dusk summit]

does anyone know does ironwire get used when IC is used?

[uncut echo]

Yes

If you dont take it I'll bust ur kneecaps

Iron wire works off IC garrotws

Silencing 8 enemies

[deft vault]

It does no dmg dont take that shit

[uncut echo]

Uh

Get benched dieb

For someone who will bring utility to a key

Lol

[dusk summit]

nice, if it wasnt i was going to grab exsanguinate but with it working like that i like.

[deft vault]

Cc is for losers

We pump

[uncut echo]

Then play any other class

[gentle apex]

Does DTB + Leeching poison double dip

Like 20% leech baseline

Demon hunter mode?

[night delta]

leeching poison isn't really a poison

rather it's a passive that activates when you weapons are poisoned

so only 10% leech for you

[slim hamlet]

Is there a wa gamer that can tell me how the "custom sort" of dynamic groups work

[gentle apex]

@slim hamlet by spell ID?

Either alphabetical or spell ID

[slim hamlet]

oh alright, didn't know if I just typed the name of the wa, or spell ID or whatever

[gentle apex]

@slim hamlet due to naming conventions in some classes being identical to say, mob spells, most people use spell IDs

[slim hamlet]

Alright

Thanks 🙂

[dusk summit]

looks like onlt main target hit with garrot from IC is empowered?

[slim hamlet]

huh

[gentle apex]

in what way

[dusk summit]

does it not?

[gentle apex]

Not that I'm aware, the bleed is the same amount. You are attacking it w/ poisons compared to others though

[dusk summit]

Could just be my UI not showing it right.

[gentle apex]

Can you show me what brought you to that conclusion

[dusk summit]

Its just my WA shows a different icon for imp garrote and not.

[cerulean nest]

you guys leveling as sin?

[gentle apex]

Of course

[slim hamlet]

Prob will to get more muscle memory with new talent stuff

[gentle apex]

Bullying people over mob tags is a lot more fun with a 6s silence opener

[cerulean nest]

yeah might do the same

[sinful flicker]

Hey guys, my friend has some questions with how shiv works with atrophic poison

Like, atrophic poison is 3% less damage, is there any way to make it more than 3%

[slim hamlet]

it becomes 3.6% dr

With the 20% increase

Pretty sure shiv doesn't increase DR with atrophic poison anymore, but not 100% actually

[balmy condor]

Yep, 3.6 with master poisoner

Shiv 0 effect

[uncut echo]

Thank GOD

That shiv doesnt amp atrophic

[slim hamlet]

Yep

Using it for damage reduction would be feels bad

[gentle apex]

It made H jailer feel less bad though

Tank combo and mc in phase 1 had a lot more breathing room

With numbing shiv

[earnest remnant]

numbing doesent work on jailer iirc

[gentle apex]

When does numbing work

Are non lethals meaningless in raid or not

[earnest remnant]

its a Jailer issue

[gentle apex]

Because I searched for hours and I'm this close to recording snapshots

Slowing poison didn't do shit v terragrue

[oak sky]

Yeah cripple doesnt work on bosses

[gentle apex]

So cripples right out, numbing not working is a bug or no

[oak sky]

Numbing usually slows boss attack speed

[gentle apex]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/numbing-poison-bosses/913812/29

This guy tested it on shriek

[dusk summit]

in M+ cirt or haste buff from guy?

[gentle apex]

@dusk summit crit rn

[marble hemlock]

psure it does

[dark token]

why not

[dusk summit]

CRAP i know it and took haste

[dark token]

it would be cool if it did

[marble hemlock]

its just that DHs played venthyr and sinful brand is a stronger attackspeed slow

[oak sky]

Doesnt really matter

[marble hemlock]

so it took priority

[earnest remnant]

got told by like 15 different people it did not work

[gentle apex]

Does it independently affect cast speed or did sinful brand overwrite both effects

[marble hemlock]

sinful and numbing were the same type so those didnt stack

weirdly enough curse of weakness did stack with either sinful or numbing

[oak sky]

Yeah i remember it stacking on sire

[marble hemlock]

so there was some spaghetti involved

[uncut echo]

Ah yes I love holding my damage cds for big boss damage windows instead of on cd because ai have to shiv bosses for raid

[spice spire]

[onyx wind]

its 0.0001% man come onn

[oak sky]

You are dumb and cringe

[uncut echo]

Wow that was rude

[oak sky]

Now im gonna fortnite dance on your corpse

https://tenor.com/view/goku-fortnite-griddy-fortnite-griddy-fortnite-dance-gif-26487780

[dark token]

you wouldnt do that for 3% dr lol

[uncut echo]

You would in wfr

100%

[dark token]

nah

[uncut echo]

If it was killing people

[dark token]

it would just be a cool bonus to sin for the poison, over outlaw/sub

[uncut echo]

You literally, 100% would

You are wrong

[dark token]

atrophic is trash man

doubling trrash wont make it good

people are hard coping on it

[oak sky]

Why would they do that lol

[dark token]

you would never fuck your dmg cd to make atrophic a tiny bit better

[uncut echo]

If you are wfr and people are dying to a cast

You are sure as SHIT holding shivs for boss casts

[gleaming jackal]

I wouldnt 🙂

[oak sky]

A lot of shit guilds would make their rogues do it too

Lol

[uncut echo]

You also wouldnt be wfring Nowl

[gleaming jackal]

true 😦

[uncut echo]

Because they'd bench you for a rogue that would

[oak sky]

No hes perfecto

[uncut echo]

Because I'm right

[dark token]

1. bosses do a lot of environment dmg, especially for things that people die to (big abilities)
2. it only affects one target, adds killing someone atrophic wont help
3. 3% dr on one ability is not going to make anyone live except in EXTREMELY rare edgecases. not worth

[oak sky]

We know it doesnt affect environment damage

Its still better than having nothing

[dark token]

i know and im saying things likely to kill someone have a fair chance to be environemnt dmg

[neon kindle]

as we allowed to talk about ass in the ass channel

[oak sky]

Raids already dropped a mage last tier on lords when it was weak

[dark token]

abilities are very rarely tightly tuned so it does 100% of someones hp exactly

[oak sky]

So of course we could get dropped

[dark token]

its either a 1 shot or you live with 50-20% hp

[oak sky]

But as it stands it is extremely likely that you would take a rogue for the DR if the damage loss isnt too large

[dark token]

only time i see the shiv thing to be useful is specific high key threshholds where going up 1 key level makes the ability unlivable (like freehold)

not on wfr

[earnest remnant]

sludgefist is a perfect case for it being used tho
the boss is like 70% enviremental dmg, but what killed people was an overlap with a roar. Shiv'd atrophic wouldve saved ppl

[uncut echo]

Correct. But if it'a a lot of dam and you got environment damage coming up after

[neon kindle]

idk, if i was sludgefist i'd simply do more damage

[oak sky]

Preventing damage is really good, it lets healers spend more globals on damage

[dark token]

my damage from shiving correclty is a bigger gain than the shit holy priest dps i guarantee it

[oak sky]

Cap

[dark token]

anyway the realistic thing is you would play sub or outlaw and shiv boss abilities

where it doesnt affect rotation

you would never force a sin rogue to shiv the boss ability

[uncut echo]

Or they took it out

And we're all happy

[gentle apex]

I've realized that without Express testing this is conjecture

[rapid tree]

So with it only being two days till DF I’m really trying to choose my main. I tanked pretty much all of SL and I am a RL of a casual hardcore guild. Tanking was pretty easy to RL as and I have a guy who wants to tank so I’m stepping down and moving to DPS. Been a long time rogue especially sin player and my heart says rogue but I’m also on the fence with hunter. I need some help kinda weighing pros and cons. How hard do y’all think Assassination would be to RL as?

Sorry for long post btw

[oak sky]

What if their tuning is awful

But who cares

Shiv atrophic doesnt exist

We can be happy

[thorn fjord]

Can be a bit cerebral at times

But pirate is pretty simple@

[dark token]

nah bro it would be a skill thing in high m+ and a passive benefit otherwise

but w/e

[oak sky]

Any spec you have a high level of comfort on is going to be fine for you to raid lead on

[exotic robin]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[oak sky]

Its really easy to hit a rhythm on sin

[dark token]

its better to raid lead on a range spec than a melee spec

you can see more of whats going on

[gentle apex]

Offspec rogue in pvp and lead rbgs

[dark token]

if you are talking pure RL effectiveness go hunter

if you like playing sin more, go sin

[rapid tree]

For sure. And RLing as tank was a pain cause I couldn’t see shit and we still did very well

[dark token]

RLing as melee dps is harder than RL as tank

[rapid tree]

So even as melee it could be a tad better and I have a nice weak aura pack to help maintain my bleeds

[dark token]

usually more mechanics/dodging for melee than tanks

[gentle apex]

RLing as a healer felt pretty shit

[rapid tree]

I did RL mythic SOFO as enhance for abit and wasn’t terrible

[oak sky]

You should be fine man

[dark token]

imo raid lead effectiveness is ranged dps > tank > healer > meleee

[oak sky]

Just build comfort

[uncut echo]

Bm hunter

Embrace 99s for free as you rl

[rapid tree]

Yea I agree

[oak sky]

Theres definitely people that have RLed as any spec that exists

[rapid tree]

And it’s mostly myself calling timers and little things. I have a healer lead who does the healer call outs but other than that my job is “pretty easy”

[oak sky]

If you can manage your priority on assassination its really not hard and the only way you would lose damage is if you have to omega focus

But that would happen on any role

[rapid tree]

We’re sitting over 20 on our roster rn anyway so it’d be easy to sit myself and just 21st man it

[oak sky]

Make the decision for yourself

[gentle apex]

Spriest was my favorite RL spec

[oak sky]

If you want to raid and you think you can handle it you should play

If you want to get the squad to ce and you think it would be better outside the raid do that

[gentle apex]

I want a mythic race where you do glory of the X raider on mythic

Like I'm going to need to personally go tank a normal dungeon boss with atrophic while mostly naked so I can test for shiv damage reduction

[oak sky]

It doesnt work

It doesnt need a test

[rapid tree]

So shiving atrophic doesn’t boost it?

It’s always a flat 3% or 3.6%

[oak sky]

Yes

We got confirmation some time ago, verify with whispyr if you dont trust me

[rapid tree]

So if I play assa and the other rogue plays outlaw would it be more useful for him to shiv atrophic or myself?

[earnest remnant]

you cant

shiv atrophic

does nothing

[oak sky]

When i said yes i meant yes you are right

Sorry if that wasnt clear

Shiv does not work with atrophic

[rapid tree]

Yea I gotcha that makes sense

[grim breach]

Noticing that simming with raidbots does not necessarily follow the opening recommended here, would that be eventually updated? Unsure where those APLs are coming from. Kind of assumed from this community.

[wary ice]

Yeah its 3 days to mattering

TCS and friends will update stuff when things become real

[grim breach]

Awesome, thanks!

[balmy condor]

It’s also not the best

Syncing the opener like that is a minor loss

[dense cedar]

I am the strongest rogue

[acoustic sky]

[marble hemlock]

Rogue wants agi, not str.

[dense cedar]

ya got me there

[thorny pond]

💪

[uncut dragon]

Isnt strength a dump stat for us?

[slim hamlet]

It's pretty alrighjt

right under int

[balmy condor]

it's slightly worse than speed

tough decision though

between indestructible and strength

[slim hamlet]

Thought indestructible was bis

[fleet whale]

strength doesn't do anything for rogues anymore
it used to give a little bit of AP, but I believe wod changed that

[slim hamlet]

did they nerf it?

[balmy condor]

yeah they nerfed it with the patch that put my balls in your mouth

[fleet whale]

so if in theory you get enough avoidance

with feint, could rogues be immune to aoe damage?

[slim hamlet]

[balmy condor]

no

because avoidance DR's way too fast

[fleet whale]

how about if you got leech on every piece of gear, with leeching poison and Master poisoner
how high would your leech be?

[balmy condor]

about 35% i think

[fleet whale]

that would be pretty strong tbh

[balmy condor]

yeah farm that leech gear and let me know

[slim hamlet]

Does master poisoner interact with leeching poison?

[solid mica]

Yes

[balmy condor]

it used to in the past

[slim hamlet]

huh

[balmy condor]

I'm not entirely sure about now

[slim hamlet]

nice bonus

[fleet whale]

yeah it gives it a 2% bonus

[solid mica]

Gives u about 2% leech

[fleet whale]

being able to have both leeching poison and cheat death at the same time

[solid mica]

And recouperator

[gentle apex]

There's like 5 different leech enchants

[balmy condor]

yeh and they either share slots with avoidance, or damage

[gentle apex]

We have feint for avoidance though

[slim hamlet]

Feint doesn't give avoidance right? Just reduces AOE directly

so it doesn't give diminishing returns

[strange python]

hello

[slim hamlet]

hi

[strange python]

you are wrong

with talent point,you can take 20% damage reduction

which means

100% dmg to 80% dmg

[slim hamlet]

?

Wat

[strange python]

its like

survival of fitness hunter

[slim hamlet]

Yeah, but what

[strange python]

you can have 20% damage reduction of "Feint"

[slim hamlet]

does that have to do with what i said

[strange python]

Feint doesnt give avoidance

[slim hamlet]

Exactly what i said

[strange python]

so do oyu need to know more or smth

[slim hamlet]

I was asking

[gleaming jackal]

10/10 reading comprehension

[slim hamlet]

you know what nevermind

[marble hemlock]

It doesn't dr the tertiary, no, but mitigation stacks multiplicatively

[slim hamlet]

alright, but avoidance will prob be better either way right?

[thorny pond]

Versus ?

[strange python]

what is avoidance tho

dodge chance?

[fleet whale]

reduces aoe damage

[thorny pond]

Avoidance is reduce AoE

[strange python]

wtf

??

[fleet whale]

like feint

[strange python]

who uses that

[thorny pond]

Most raid mechanisms are AoE

Not much randomly targets

[strange python]

it actually stacks

i think

[fleet whale]

i mean it's not like we have a choice of what tertiary stat gets on our gear

[strange python]

avoidance + 20% aoe dmg reduction

so yea

[slim hamlet]

any tertiary

[marble hemlock]

Better than what?

[thorny pond]

Context matters

[fleet whale]

we min maxing tertiary's now

[thorny pond]

Avoidance and leech are strong

Versus speed

But for healers, leech > all

[marble hemlock]

speed is the best tertiary for raid progression

[thorny pond]

Doesn’t reduce my guilds attempt count

[marble hemlock]

neither does avoidance

unless its the raid avoiding you

[thorny pond]

I mean

Yea

[gusty mirage]

that dumper of yours stacks multiplicatively

[thorny pond]

But my guild wipes to fated bosses last week

[fleet whale]

speed is probably good for wheelchair classes like pallies and DKs

[marble hemlock]

speed is always good

getting to target faster = good

getting out of shit faster = good

[fleet whale]

i mean, we have two charges of step

and already 15% passive movement increase

[marble hemlock]

yeah

wanna know whats better than 15% movement speed?

20%

[thorny pond]

Seli believes uptime is more important

But we got long arms now

[slim hamlet]

always have

[thorny pond]

Reduces value of speed

[fleet whale]

that 5% is like miniscule in most raid fights

[torn atlas]

Uptime>downtime

[marble hemlock]

no

tahts quite literally not how this would work

[torn atlas]

Pure math

[thorny pond]

Use your new long assassin arms to give him a reach around that multiplicative dumper

[marble hemlock]

getting 15% movespeed from speed when you already have 15%, would put oyu at 130%

so you get full value

getting 15% avoidance when you already have 40% from feint

[gusty mirage]

already booked a ticket to Deutschland dw

[thorny pond]

Christmas isn’t the only thing coming early

[fleet whale]

idk 35% leech sounds appealing to me

you wouldn't need to be healed that much

[thorny pond]

Play disc

Rogues have a lot of passive healing now

[marble hemlock]

Would simply put you at 49% mitigation

[marble hemlock]

You already get 10% from leeching and have perma recup

[thorny pond]

Objectively speed is probably worth more to us than leech but avoidance is also good

[marble hemlock]

We dont need more passive healing

[thorny pond]

More passive damage

[marble hemlock]

Leech is better than avoidance for regular damage. For anything that aint regular damage, you have feint. When you have feint, you dont need anything else

Obviously this is all just opinions but like

People really underestimate how good it is to have 5 or 10% extra movespeed

[thorny pond]

Not all gods like you using the entire toolkit Seli, god

[balmy condor]

bro you are smoking crack

[marble hemlock]

People dont use feint?

[thorny pond]

Half the people reading this press feint after the fact

[thorn fjord]

I get yelled at for not using feint

[fleet whale]

we have two shadowstep charges now though

[slim hamlet]

Avoidance is the go to for dps right?

I always hear people talking avoidance gear

[balmy condor]

thats cause its really good

[fleet whale]

the go to for dps
is whatever tertiary stat you are lucky to get

[slim hamlet]

Yeah besides farming with valor

Omega nerd it

[marble hemlock]

Yeah, wanna know how many people actually use shadowstep for more than just stepping to their target? Speed is nice to get around when shit is out of range or you have to run away from something, not towards something. Lots of fights have mechanics like that

I'd argue maybe 10% of rogues ever shadowstepped to an ally in a raidfight

[slim hamlet]

We already have speed 1000 i feel

[marble hemlock]

Yeah, but more speed is better. Theres no real point reducing a big AoE hit further when you already have a 40% mitigation from Feint

[slim hamlet]

Probably true, but if you're in a discussion about tertiary stats, you're probably nerd enough to also use shadowstep

[gusty mirage]

do we?

[marble hemlock]

So unless we're talking regular aoe damage that the feint CD is an issue (at which point leech might just be straightup better), why stack smth youre already good at

[grim tangle]

I'm a big leech fan, but with baseline leeching poison, maybe more leech loses value

[marble hemlock]

Im sad MP wont work with Leeching anymore

[balmy condor]

Yeah, but more avoidance is better. Therres no real point reducing uptime further when you already have 2 shadowstep charges and sprint

[slim hamlet]

Wasn't that what we just found out that it did?

If MP is indeed master poisoner

[gusty mirage]

MP used to increase lethal poisons as well

and I'm pretty sure leeching poison counts as a lethal

[marble hemlock]

Its kinda superfluous in a world where there is metric fucktons of passive healing. Feint keeps you from dying. Feint will keep smartheals from targeting you over someone else who needs it more. 5% extra avoidance aint gonna make a difference if AoE damage is the #1 issue in a fight

[gusty mirage]

cause it applies when you apply a lethal poison

[marble hemlock]

Not in raidfights, where people overheal like crazy

If we're talking M+? Avoidance all the way brother

[slim hamlet]

But if the 2 other stats don't really do anything

[balmy condor]

I feel like if you just replace feint with avoidance you're left with the same argument

[slim hamlet]

avoidance still prob best

[balmy condor]

avoidance -> you take less damage -> smart heals kick in

[marble hemlock]

Well sure if you're ramfam and have 20% avoidance you can just not feint and get DPS that way ig

speed is the most likely to give an actual dps increase

[slim hamlet]

Speed is also the only thing you can feel

[marble hemlock]

some 5% avoidance aint gonna make a difference, not on a class without any other kind of passive mitigation whereas most other classes do have one/or have multiple mitigation CDs/extra HP. without feint, were only second to hunters in taking the biggest cock in raidfights

[slim hamlet]

Wicked speed

[balmy condor]

and 5% speed will make a difference?

[slim hamlet]

I mean it does the same difference no matter which class

[marble hemlock]

on shit like sylv veil prenerf? that shit was fucking huge