outlaw

[fathom bramble]

I mean for law you will never really build much more haste than what we are going for in season 1

value drops significantly past 25%

[craggy barn]

sub has no energy issues

[fathom bramble]

and it just becomes crit/vers time

[olive spire]

is the fact that you have no energy problem that makes the value go down or something else?

[fathom bramble]

25% is the point at which haste stops improving you global cooldown during AR

[olive spire]

oh i see

[fathom bramble]

no longer needing it for energy also happens around this time like ~23% so crit can take over early

it kind of gradually loses value as you approach 25% from needing less and less more energy

and then has a sharp turn at exactly 25%

[small lion]

hello im noob, why fatebound doesnt take killing spree?

[fathom bramble]

KS bad no dam

trickster takes it to trigger the hero talent effects

[small lion]

ohh i like that visual talent 🙁

in beta which spec is better sub assa or outlaw in m`+?

[craggy barn]

sub i think? outlaw kinda got giga dumpstered

from the recent beta tuning

[fathom bramble]

yeah probably sub, but I would recommend testing the spec you enjoy or all 3 if your planning to playtest on the beta at all

[small lion]

i'll try all of them

In last beta tuning sub got nerfed 8%

[olive spire]

outlaw 15%, its a nice competition 😄

[fathom bramble]

on top of 15% everything it was also an additonal 10% on AAs

which are actually a meaningful part of our damage now

[craggy barn]

started from the bottom and now we are even lower

[fathom bramble]

it made our spec aura go from +400% AA damage to +300%

from both changes hitting at once

[runic gulch]

not sure if there is a rule around this yet, but im finding with good rolls, there will be situations where you potentially munch loaded dice procs; as in you've got a jackpot rolling, loaded dice is up and ADR is about to come back off CD before existing loaded dice/jackpot expires

[fathom bramble]

also the spec aura even being that high on AAs might be a fluke from the buff we got while still bugged...

so who knows if they might decide it's too high still

[runic gulch]

is this just inevitable? or is it the play to reroll with existing loaded dice if the jackpot is soon going to expire, so you can then ADR and loaded dice roll a second time in case it's a shit roll

just to maximise chances of next roll being better than a 2

if this makes sense

[olive spire]

not sure if i understand what the absolutely correct play is but it looks like an happy problem

[fathom bramble]

I'm sure there is some gain to be had in there from specific timings and rerolling early, but idk if anyone has investigated it yet

it would help if they made RTB pandemic again so rerolling early was less costly...

[runic gulch]

yeah, im not sure if there would be a threshold

like say you have 10 secs or more left of jackpot

probably would be dumb just to get that extra loaded dice

like in that case just munch the proc

[fathom bramble]

yeah and on the other extreme of 1 second left on jackpot you would surely reroll early

[wintry solar]

100% adr uptime but instead of adr pausing, we just had that kind of CDR

[runic gulch]

but if there's like 5 secs, probably best to try and get both loaded dice

unless you held ADR

which seems cringe

[glass mortar]

ye solo mentioned u munch some in sims

dont think we've found ways to avoid it happening with good luck its just a thing

[runic gulch]

fair

[glass mortar]

the closest is the optimization in the opener with prep to not KiR until you consume your second LD

[fathom bramble]

looks like 1.4 wasted loaded procs on average in 5 minutes

[glass mortar]

(assuming you dont hit 3+ buffs off the first roll)

[fathom bramble]

if you hit 3/4 on the opener you might always waste a loaded proc

I'm not sure

[glass mortar]

i could see it being worth to roll early but maybe not

the timing in the opener is tight but its not impossible i think right

you arent using ur second ADR until ~15s into the fight so your second LD should last to 1m into the fight

which should be just around when ur first KiR buffs are expiring

i think you'd need to clip it a bit to not lose the LD tho

by a few seconds at least

[runic gulch]

yeah ive only run into the situation a couple of times, trying to recreate it now on a dummy

seems to mainly happen after consecutive lucky rolls or natty rolling a 3 or 4 without loaded dice

[fathom bramble]

couldn't you also get a 3rd AR before the ld from your 2nd AR is expiring

[glass mortar]

this is all assuming ur preping on cd because theres no better usage for it

[runic gulch]

which seems to give you enough CDR to bring back ADR before old loaded dice expires

so seems rare-ish

[glass mortar]

hmm well ARs average cd is also 45s

so with 3 buff probably yea

you'd have AR up like 10-15s before ur kir buffs would expire

just quickmathing average cdr

[fathom bramble]

the sim gets AR back before the 60 second mark fairly often

it's active at 60 seconds 70% of the time

which is when that ld would have expired

[glass mortar]

yea i mean 45s is the average

which includes no tb and tb

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[upper hawk]

60% of the time, it works 100% of the time

[fathom bramble]

so we expect it to happen

[glass mortar]

and if u kir'd ur first buff u probably had TB (if ur playing prep)

so yea itll probably much pretty often

its w/e this new fancy outlaw is all about inefficiencies u cant avoid

y u think we got prep instead of 2 charge adr

some dev likes to write "friction" in his diary every night b4 going to bed

[stray ginkgo]

You guys think we could cook up a talent build with no AR and no RTB?

[fathom bramble]

No

[glass mortar]

i mean me personally i could cook you up at minimum 2 talent builds with neither of those buttons

#subtlety #assassination

[lime lake]

he didnt say it has to be a good build

[stray ginkgo]

Why not, it would really make the class simpler to play and accessible for players with no brain cells

[glass mortar]

they shoulda made RtB the base talent of the tree

[wintry solar]

There's gotta be new material out there

[glass mortar]

just to rub salt in the wounds of allthe combat enjoyers

why would we come up with new material when blizzard cant even be bothered to tho

they are even getting paid for it

[wintry solar]

"No brain cells" was funny the first 2 months

I'm thinking

[lime lake]

thats new

[wintry solar]

2 brain cells, and they're fighting for which of the 2 buttons to press

[stray ginkgo]

I was talking about me wym you guys are all smart and playing the OP spec i think is gonna be nerfed

[olive spire]

sub is as accessible as it gets right now

[fathom bramble]

Can you even spend all the points if you refuse to take ar/rtb stuff?

[wintry solar]

Weird how the one season I don't play outlaw, it magically becomes the worst spec in the game

Precognition or divine intervention, call it.

[stray ginkgo]

Sounds like you were propping up the spec and It wasnt good without you

[wintry solar]

Maybeee

[stray ginkgo]

Maybe Zac will cook

[wintry solar]

An insult to the devs sure

[keen belfry]

thoughts

[limpid isle]

why no AR? 🤔 true combat enjoyers love AR and always have. RtB however.

[keen belfry]

no AR build

[stray ginkgo]

If you love adrenaline name every rush

[limpid isle]

to many caster bars it seems

[keen belfry]

rogue was my first melee! dragonflgihtt took my melee virginigingitiy

[limpid isle]

https://tenor.com/view/you're-a-disgrace-smiling-friends-you're-a-shame-adult-swim-gif-12974462972703917201

what addon is showing that btw

[keen belfry]

uhhh its like

accountplayed

[limpid isle]

for science i shall see

so if i log on all my other rogues and or classes it will add to this? neat

[keen belfry]

yeah it needs to get the data first

[limpid isle]

technologia is pretty cool sometimes

[strange kelp]

No hunter, I need you to play surv so you will build out wang bar

[untold wadi]

i heard no AR

[exotic agate]

should play more rogue maybe

[stray ginkgo]

Yeah no ar and no rtb a real man's spec

[untold wadi]

sick ass addon

does it grab data from all ur old characters if it wasn't installed

surely it does

[untold wadi]

aha

[arctic merlin]

back to the tuning change - if they were planning to do 15% overall + 10% aa buff, then dropped it because of bugfix, and outlaw is still not good, then it means they would buff it again?

[exotic agate]

most likely we will get another nerf

[arctic merlin]

why

was the bug really that significant

[glass mortar]

no they r just joking they suck at a tuning

we have no idea what they will do

[low glade]

which one of you is this

[granite merlin]

This made me chortle

[desert tendon]

@glass mortar since no more brann, tbc check

[glass mortar]

nah we mop maxing rn

😎

[desert tendon]

wow is so confusing

why did they release tbc v3

or v4

or idk which one it is anymore

[pastel sierra]

cause people play it

[limpid isle]

because reselling an expansion prints money. companies like money. its pretty simple actually. bigger question is how many times they can keep doing it.

[cinder relic]

Like wobblecraft said, it's because people will play games on a seasonal reset

same reason people play poe leagues

Or runescale leagues

Just an excuse to level, do dugneons, gear a character and everybody else is doing the same

Contrary to this channel a lot of people like playing wow

and they don't need a big excuse to log back in

[chilly atlas]

anyone who plays wow and enjoys it doesn't really play wow

[stray ginkgo]

[wintry solar]

Yall let's clown on the mfer

[stray ginkgo]

I enjoy playing wow

[stray ginkgo]

Am I playing it wrong

[untold wadi]

no

that's intended

[wintry solar]

Fun is a feature

[hollow temple]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• EasyReminders - can show poison reminders outside of instances

[desert tendon]

i got that, but if we talk about league / poe, i wouldnt play a remaster of an old season. In tft they have a gamemode to play older set and i never do it. I didnt play osrs as well. My main point is playing it once just to get your nostalgia boost and all i can understand, but a 3rd / 4th release i just dont understand. But ofc people do whatever they want, and if they like it cool for them

[quaint mauve]

why r u a ranged player

so lame

[limpid isle]

https://tenor.com/view/why-are-you-gae-pepe-julien-gif-13687553676606303412

[white marten]

a true rogue main

[pastel sierra]

its also a different WoW to retail and some ppl like that design more

[merry harness]

How do we feel about outlaw rotation in midnight?

[runic gulch]

slow

dull

[fathom bramble]

it's a comfy albeit barebones version of an older version of outlaw

[merry harness]

We are energy starved or what?

[fathom bramble]

not much is left from the advancements of last 2 expansions leaving something that feels more like something from 6 years ago than like something from tww

[runic gulch]

kinda but i mean more so that UHUH is gone so ADR uptime can no longer be chained, feels very slow as a result

[fathom bramble]

it's not really starved at the correct haste value

but leveling and gearing at the start of midnight may be rough

[merry harness]

Ahh but we don't have great uptime on shorter gcd i guess yeah

even if we have enough energy

[runic gulch]

feels alright with tea

[glass mortar]

its ~20% slower

still gcd locked tho

[runic gulch]

once tea stacks are up it can get a bit oof

[glass mortar]

just barely

and if u need to dump energy into other things...

[merry harness]

What is our ADR uptime then like 60%

[glass mortar]

30%

[wintry solar]

30

[merry harness]

30% fak

no way that sounds cooked

[runic gulch]

yup

[fathom bramble]

it's more than that with prep

on a 5 minute fight at least

[wintry solar]

50/60% would be perfect

[merry harness]

yeah but in m+ it is gonna be less i guess with UHUH gone

[glass mortar]

thats where it usually was pre crackshot era

[white marten]

it can always be worse...assa rogue cough

[fathom bramble]

it's ~40% at max level in midnight on the prep setup for ST

[cinder relic]

If theo nly fun you had with outlaw was just having 95% ar uptime then you wont like this version

But u can also just hop on beta and try it urself to find out

[merry harness]

Don't have sub atm waiting for release

[cinder relic]

i see

But yeah I mean it's like older Outlaw

BFA/SL era

Its just building and spending efficiently

Its like fury

and idk abt u but I find fury fun

[merry harness]

Yeah okay hope it will be fun ofc. I did kinda enjoy the speed of outlaw tho

[fathom bramble]

it does still have a lot of reactive procs like outlaw should

so not totally like fury

[vivid vessel]

unlucky they deleted the fun proc

[cinder relic]

Like I said if you played the older version theres fun to be found in this version

[merry harness]

Yeah from what i could see in the faq it looks like outlaw also keept some compexcity in comparision to other specs

[cinder relic]

Even if it does have it's issues still

[merry harness]

Yeah i only started in df tho so havent played the old outlaw

[cinder relic]

did u play before the uuhu crackshot stuff

[merry harness]

No

[keen belfry]

Cuz I’m goated no?

[cinder relic]

I see

[merry harness]

Yeah but will be fine probably game still good

[fathom bramble]

true

[cinder relic]

I'm having fun on farm playing some outlaw

[merry harness]

This guy rogues

[glass mortar]

im sure the ace thing is a mistake and theyll bring it back as a proc

makes no sense

[cinder relic]

Even if its ass cuz bosses die in 5 seconds

[glass mortar]

they just oopsied the math

[fathom bramble]

my warr and paladin are on my 2nd account and I don't want to grab a sub for it rn

paladin should be at least 20-30

[vivid vessel]

?

[fathom bramble]

warr like 5-10

[vivid vessel]

they tried that before

already

[glass mortar]

its just a lil oopsie zac

[vivid vessel]

they didnt oopsie the math bro

[glass mortar]

wrote 4 instead of 5

[vivid vessel]

its intended to be dogshit gameplay

[glass mortar]

it happens

theyll fix it in a season

they arent dumb enough to remove all the procs from the proc spec

[frail veldt]

DAMN thats dedication

[glass mortar]

bro i swear we have less reactive procs then normie specs now

[fathom bramble]

idk a ton of specs have procs that aren't really critical to respond to in 1 gcd or just none at all

[cinder relic]

whats the addon

[fathom bramble]

Account played

[frail veldt]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/account-played/install/7467337

[fathom bramble]

you have to log into each character that you want to check

I didn't log into everything, so my sub 5 days on a ton of classes aren't in

but idc rogue number is the only real number

[haughty moat]

i started in bfa i should say^^

[fathom bramble]

I've been played this rogue since late burning crusade

[vivid vessel]

im half your playtime lok

[unborn moon]

Weird optimization question: I’m at 5 combo points. Do I sinister strike to 6? Do I use my opportunity proc slightly overcapping, or send a finisher?

[frail veldt]

uh oh

my results might get me kicked from the disc

[fathom bramble]

you probably play way more than me these days

[wintry solar]

My account was made in 2019 when I moved out my dad's house. All that data gone when I got my own account

[haughty moat]

rip

[fathom bramble]

what's your time played this level on your rogue? @vivid vessel

I'm sitting at 41 days 1 hours

[wintry solar]

DMn

Damn

[fathom bramble]

definitely not a super high number for this expac

since I didn't do any serious key doing any season

[haughty moat]

ouch 116 days on this level xD

[fathom bramble]

not sure what my other rogue is at

other account so not checking

[haughty moat]

but im sitting alot afk in dorno tbf

[wintry solar]

I'm probably at 30 tbh

[fathom bramble]

wonder how much of my playtime is afk time

[fathom bramble]

especially in wod where I just had the game open constantly but only really interacted with it when an alert for the garrison whent off

[vivid vessel]

tho i have other rogues for splits

so you can say 100

round it up

[vivid vessel]

?

[vivid vessel]

guy do you even login

[runic gulch]

less than i thought ngl

[vivid vessel]

to wow

327 days

[haughty moat]

fr

[vivid vessel]

waht a casual

im ashamed to have other bars

but its over now

i have officially been accepted as a rogue one trick to my guild

i can play 5 rogues for splits

[frail veldt]

were you not a rogue one trick before?

[vivid vessel]

yes

but they wanted other specs as alts

i had to play a bit of ww

and a bit of shaman

[wintry solar]

It doesn't seperate by specs can it? I want to know what my unholy/blood ratio is

[frail veldt]

thats annoying

[vivid vessel]

and a bit of dh

[haughty moat]

i got 4 max lvl rogues, u ?^^

[frail veldt]

I had to log into my old rogue from when I played in tbc->cata to get it above priest hahaha

[vivid vessel]

its a bit more common in high end guilds cause you need to cover more specs

and if everyone does the same as you and play one spec only

you are cucked a bit

[frail veldt]

time played at this level is 33 days though ......

tww was kinda mid ngl

[vivid vessel]

?

why do you even speak in thjis discord bro

[frail veldt]

hahahhaha

I play it all bro

[fathom bramble]

I wonder how many regulars have spent more time talking in here than they have spent playing rogue 🤔

[frail veldt]

oh I for sure have this xpac

[wintry solar]

I absolutely did this expac and df

[vivid vessel]

i only have 100 hours this expac

bit of a casual

[haughty moat]

show time spent on max lvl on your rogue

[frail veldt]

33 days

[fathom bramble]

sometimes I wish your rogue main had to be linked with your discord in order to type

[vivid vessel]

days sorry

[haughty moat]

thats not much

[vivid vessel]

hours

[frail veldt]

thats actually lower than I expected

a lot of my time this xpac was just afk in blitz/solo shuffle queues

fucking 45 minute queues man

0/10

[wintry solar]

I can do 2 keys max ever since s2 df then I log off or swap to dk

[haughty moat]

all casuals here

[wintry solar]

I did more delves than raids or mythics

[vivid vessel]

im surprised

[frail veldt]

im not

[wintry solar]

I'm not

[vivid vessel]

that was a joke bro

of course im not surprised

its popo

[wintry solar]

Uhuh sucked balls

[haughty moat]

yee

[vivid vessel]

only for noobs

[haughty moat]

i bet he is undercover, he is that Mafic guy

[wintry solar]

Mafic is anti rtb

[runic gulch]

lol that geezer on the forums?

who does nothing but casual bgs

[wintry solar]

You couldn't pay me to slander RTB

[haughty moat]

ah im sry i dont know all your shit takes xD

[untold wadi]

🏄 🏄‍♀️

[wintry solar]

You anti rtb?

[haughty moat]

the new one, YES

[vivid vessel]

i mena the new one

is kinda mega boring

[fathom bramble]

new one is fine

the real loss is cto being gone

[haughty moat]

yea boring af

[vivid vessel]

its a maintainance buff now idk

its doing nothing

it doesnt feel the same

[runic gulch]

ahaha ive never understood why he signs every post off with that, what does it even mean?

[wintry solar]

Someone should ask

[untold wadi]

i'd say ask him, but i wouldn't wish that fate on anyone

[fathom bramble]

it's probably only to make himself memorable

[haughty moat]

it worked kinda

[fathom bramble]

definitely can't forget him

[untold wadi]

i need my "rip auto attack builds" screenshot from the forums

a mafic classic

[wintry solar]

I wish you could put filters on posts, like if someone doesn't have aotc or duelist or whatever, they can't comment on your post.

[vapid sundial]

duelist

aotc

xdd

[fathom bramble]

those are reasonable bare minimums to ensure that whoever you are engaging with at least plays the game enough to know how things might work

[vapid sundial]

eh

depends what time in the season

[fathom bramble]

could push it higher for more serious discussions

[untold wadi]

unironically there should be a minimum competency level

[wintry solar]

A lot of the forum mains don't have either

[vapid sundial]

less than 5% of the playerbase gets aotc, no?

or something liek that

lol

why the fuck would blizz balance / listen to 5%

[haughty moat]

what?

[wintry solar]

I've no idea. I just know people in the forums have nothing

[haughty moat]

no way

[vapid sundial]

yes

[untold wadi]

u must log into main

[vapid sundial]

aotc is like between 5-10%

its really low

[untold wadi]

none of this hiding on alts nonsense

[untold wadi]

does this include character or accounts

[wintry solar]

I don't even care about that, I just need mafic off the forums lolol

[fathom bramble]

it's just so annoying trying to talk about what would be good for the game

or the kinds of tools a spec needs in raid

and someone who has never raided or played outlaw has a take for some reason

[vapid sundial]

achivs are acct based

so

[untold wadi]

i c

[fathom bramble]

and like there is some extent where you can

especially if your a legacy law player that just hasn't for a few tiers

but if you have literally never then idk

[vapid sundial]

hi thats me

[fathom bramble]

I wouldn't leave feedback for warlocks 🤷

[untold wadi]

idk he totally exposes himself when he said shit like "7 minute KIR cooldown is too long" it's stuff like that that makes him insufferable

blatant misunderstanding of the spec

or just trolling

[wintry solar]

I've only seen him have 1 not bad take and it wasn't even about outlaw

Insane track record

[runic gulch]

i'd be surprised if he even played KiR pre rework

does nothing but bgs, probably a HO enjoyer

[vapid sundial]

i dont like kir but isnt it like 1-1:30

or some shit

[runic gulch]

and even if he didnt go bgs, still would've probably played HO

[vapid sundial]

actively

[untold wadi]

what's that like, a one hundred thousandth of a percent of positive comments? 0.00001%

[wintry solar]

He's perpetually posting so yeah thats about right

[vapid sundial]

blizz should baan him from forums

good for his mental helath

health

[untold wadi]

that's a given

[runic gulch]

was it about best places to surf?

[wintry solar]

And outlaws

[stray ginkgo]

Guys im totally a rogue main

[haughty moat]

dafuq?

[vapid sundial]

get out

you freak

[stray ginkgo]

In my defense thats since vanilla and i quit hunter when the sick nasty hunter dev killed the class in bfa

[haughty moat]

and came to outlaw 💀

[vapid sundial]

yes

in bfa?

the fuck are you on about

[fathom bramble]

outlaw was great in bfa

[stray ginkgo]

am also sick and twisted

[vapid sundial]

bfa outlaw - sl outlaw was great

[stray ginkgo]

Talking about hunter guy

[fathom bramble]

outlaw was also great in legion

[haughty moat]

yeah but i mean now, calm down^^

[fathom bramble]

and sl

and df

and tww

[stray ginkgo]

Outlaw is good now

[haughty moat]

and we are dooming alot for this state btw xD

[stray ginkgo]

Just play it better

[vapid sundial]

i am dooming

cuz haste tax

is dogshit

[fathom bramble]

well we would now build to that level of haste just to fix our energy

so there's that

I guess

[vapid sundial]

so 3x haste tax?

xd

[haughty moat]

hahaha

[fathom bramble]

I mean we are back to the thing I feared and often brought up

we play like dirt without enough haste to fix it

haste having a rotational impact in the form of energy is bad and feels bad everytime for combat/outlaw

[vapid sundial]

i remember that for combat

in uh

start of wrath

needed x haste

[limpid isle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/tim-robinson-i-think-you-should-leave-2

[fathom bramble]

yes

there is zero doubt in my mind that outlaw was great in legion

[limpid isle]

tbf first iteration of rtb being a talent was cool

[fathom bramble]

especially after the reduced it to 5 dice from 6

great gameplay*

it was very undertuned the entire expansion

and even ate a nerf randomly while bad due to a legendary being strong for sub(the current best spec)

[limpid isle]

yeah maybe it was a mix of things around it that made it feel awk.

[haughty moat]

i think tww s2 was peak outlaw gameplay (except of the suicide killing spree thingy) it was a perma perma blast no other spec could any close get

[fathom bramble]

unless you were one of the players with a significant mental block around just the idea of spending combo points on RTB I think if you enjoyed BFA you would enjoy 7.1.5 and later law in legion

[dense coral]

Im trying to find an m+ group for midnight. What would be a perfect comp for outlaw? My thoughts are:
Guardian druid
Resto shaman
Outlaw rogue
Fury warrior
Windwalker monk

Is there a better melee comp?

[haughty moat]

depends on tuning

monk tank and feral for example

[fathom bramble]

there's a lot of ways to arrange those 4 classes, but those are our best buffs to make outlaw do more damage

[haughty moat]

but still depends on tuning, maybe hunter better

you wanna time keys, you dont want greatest overall

[low glade]

triple outlaw

[haughty moat]

fr

[dense coral]

idk why but i love having ww monks. They are mostly dedicated players who crank hard af

[haughty moat]

just find your ppl, in the end its more about the gamer, instead his spec

if you know what i mean

[low glade]

bring the player not the spec

[haughty moat]

ye

[pastel pendant]

and now look at it......

[untold wadi]

[pastel pendant]

dragonflight classic cant come soon enough

[dense coral]

dragonflight was unironically amazing

[pastel pendant]

i think df was peak class design

[soft bobcat]

Triple outlaw XD

[pastel pendant]

i tried out assas and sub and they somwhow feel worse than outlaw rn, which is a truly impressive feat

[soft bobcat]

Sin is hot garbage. Haven’t tried sub

[iron bridge]

is fatebound fixed yet

or still going trickster

[cinder relic]

Fixed but fatebound is still worse

[untold wadi]

[soft bobcat]

lol earlier in season 3 I tried a 13 with a sub and outlaw and sin

We failed 🥹

[quick ridge]

This is fun, could you do the same concept but for defensive buffs?

[untold wadi]

nah u gotta go AA triple outlaw

oh pres can do poison woops

thot it was lil more grief

pala helps

blizzard sees the 40 adds alive and uncaps us shirley

[pastel pendant]

based

[frail veldt]

what did they do to xalatath

[pastel pendant]

idk its a western thing to make women as ugly as possible

[cinder relic]

?

[vivid vessel]

starting with your mom noob

[untold wadi]

rekt

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

U like jellyfish

[vivid vessel]

i never ate jellyfish

do people eat that

isnt it just legit water

[proven ocean]

Idk

I think if u eat one u die

Did anyone try dying to it?

I mean eating it*

Ok

@vivid vessel my new pfp rate

[vivid vessel]

ye its good

but you had that one in the past no ?

[crude musk]

Is it okay to use a dagger as an oh as outlaw?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes, it is better even

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is ~1% better than a slow weapon mostly because of Zero In, and also slightly more Instant Poison procs. Energy is not affected by offhand speed.

It is possible large ilvl differences can matter more than this bonus so use Raidbots Top Gear when in doubt.

[crude musk]

thank you

[proven ocean]

Ya idk

I always end up going back to it

[lone spear]

why is asmongold in the rogue discord?

[pastel pendant]

?

[granite merlin]

how do i get into wangbar

to edit it

[frail veldt]

like the files?

or the settings

imma guess /wang lol

[keen belfry]

Zach8910 on that fried arc rn

[wintry solar]

It's just the women are self inserts.

Get the monster girls in western games stat!

[granite merlin]

the settings

/wang doesnt work

[wintry solar]

I think that was a joke

[granite merlin]

it shows the ability to edit settings but its not in addon

[keen belfry]

Try the minimap button

[granite merlin]

and not listed on site

not on map

[untold wadi]

maybe in the addons tab?

/wb when?

[granite merlin]

i figured it out

my god

[gaunt phoenix]

wangbar so stressful

[granite merlin]

it wasnt wang bar

when i reloaded a profile it killed the addon

i had to turn it back on to get icon to apprear effing blizzard

or user error lol

[lime lake]

some people have issues handling a good wang

nothing to be ashamed of

[untold wadi]

monster wang

[granite merlin]

-ui

[molten oasis]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• EasyReminders - can show poison reminders outside of instances

[keen belfry]

Wang bar wang bar

[vivid vessel]

wang my bar

[desert tendon]

bar your wang

[tepid leaf]

damn thats a lot of hours

[vivid vessel]

into not rogue yes

[tepid leaf]

I guess hours makes sense, i started rogue in OG tbc, then played DK in Wrath to cata then played warlocked from 2012 to SL then cameback as a rogue again

[desert tendon]

the less hours in rogue, the better you are

[lucid stirrup]

that's a cool addon! what is it, may I ask please?

[tepid leaf]

Dis

[lucid stirrup]

thank you sir

[river wing]

40 days of Rogue
30 days of Warr
over the last year and a half

[river wing]

hot damn

[tepid leaf]

glad it wasn't these hours in a game I started played after SL

[keen belfry]

Loser bro

[tepid leaf]

Although my hours on rouge make me wonder If i deleted my OG rogue, from 2007

in 2 years then my orc rogue will be old enough to drink.....

[ocean lodge]

I thought lock would be highest, but I basically quit lock between wod and SL.

And none of this is my pre-mop time, oof

[tepid leaf]

Speakin of old rogue characters I got all of this stuff on my rogue

[honest cape]

[ocean lodge]

I miss my wrath prepatch set.

[keen belfry]

Edude edude!

[warped spruce]

Every time I've logged on, I've had a tough time deciding between playing Bear or Rogue for the day and it shows.

[bright reef]

dogue main

[wintry solar]

That's actually impressive

[plucky chasm]

@proven ocean where are u man

I didnt see u for a long long time mate

Wondered about it

Zac wahts your thoughts about outlaw atm ?

[unkempt dew]

Hé is Jellyfishing

[untold wadi]

this new addon is all the rage!

https://tenor.com/view/kitten-waking-up-gif-14943822499037224228

[vivid vessel]

well its the worse iteration we ever got

people keep saying its like sl but i wish it was like sl

sl had infinite energy, mfd, sbs, er rc leggo, dust

this is just poop no gameplay

[fathom bramble]

yeah I think it's like SL without legendaries or covs

[vivid vessel]

• we have the lowest bf cleave we ever had after spending an expac doing 0 aoe with legit 100% cleave bf

[fathom bramble]

more comparable to like bfa

[vivid vessel]

so good luck in keys

[fathom bramble]

especially with the very high SS chance

[proven ocean]

Outlaw sucks

Maybe once they fix this spec+WA shenanigans i’ll come back

[frail veldt]

It's like SL while leveling before getting covenant abilities

Or legendaries

[cobalt token]

I feel like the spec does absolutely 0 dmg atm

Ion even care for the lost weak auras I just wanna hit harder than a pillow

[unkempt dew]

Maybe a hot take. But I’m really enjoying my outlaw in pre patch. Can’t wait for midnight

[fossil jay]

do we still run, haven't played in a while
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike

[oblique trench]

is it me or is outlaw kinda low on dmg in m+ right now?

[carmine bay]

pre patch?

apparently its bugged and is getting patched next reset?

[wintry solar]

It's patched now

[oblique trench]

yes

[haughty moat]

what gets fixed?

[vivid vessel]

the bug fixes and tuning that are on beta rn are a net negative so

its a nerf

[cobalt token]

No way we're being nerfed when our dmg is already weak

[vivid vessel]

i mean idk prepatch is different than beta

but also

being nerfed while already weak

has happeneed every season

this expac

so

not really out of the ordinary really

[cobalt token]

True that

I love looking at the tierlists content creators make

They're all putting outlaw at high a tier

Shits funny

[unique mortar]

Hi, I'm new to the Rogue Outlaw. I used to play Subt, and I have good stats for Rogue Outlaw, but my damage is very low compared to other classes. Is this because I don't know the rotation well yet? Or is Outlaw just weak?

[cobalt token]

Well I mean

What's your dmg like

And what ilvl

[vivid vessel]

well that was before we got nerfed by 15%

15% is quite a big number

so

[cobalt token]

True

[unique mortar]

161 ilvl average damage in pulls is like 60-70k, single target 24k

[vivid vessel]

this is 15%

small swing

:D

[cobalt token]

It indeed is

[fossil jay]

is that m+ or raiding

[vivid vessel]

thats just a random wcl raid picture

[cobalt token]

Yeah that's just the class being weak

[vivid vessel]

itsn ot relevant

im just saying 15% aura nerf

gets you from being the best spec in the game

to the worse spec in the game

with one clean swoop

[cobalt token]

With maybe some rotation problems but shouldn't be huge

[unique mortar]

ty

[fossil jay]

hopefully the do some about it, got excited to play outlaw again

[crude oar]

Hey, just wondering, are we doing potato damage on retail or am i just bad ? or maybe both ?

[oblique trench]

same boat here idk

[clever badge]

any rogue blizzard layout to try on anywhere?

[untold wadi]

!wangbar

[ornate heath]

Resources:

• ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
• WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
• MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
• Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
  Misc:
• Mute Cold Blood sound
• EasyReminders - can show poison reminders outside of instances

[amber bloom]

Do you guys like the new outlaw?

I need to test it but what exactly is the gameplay like now?

Is it more about hard hitting combo point spenders rather than spamming them constantly?

[cobalt token]

The fact half the people here are asking that question

Should tell enough

[wintry solar]

@mighty pivot is it just me or is our damage really poopoo peepee rn?

[cobalt token]

You just gotta scroll up a bit

Literally everyone's complaining

It ain't just you

[wintry solar]

No, now it's your turn to ask

I thought this was a communal thing ig

[untold wadi]

someone hlep me, dmg low?

[untold wadi]

previous outlaw was too fun to ever enjoy anything else, the gameplay was basically crack, figuratively and literally

[mighty pivot]

our damage is popo

[untold wadi]

addicted

[mighty pivot]

(poop)

[wintry solar]

[carmine bay]

so as someone who hasnt really played outlaw much since before the last rework, im enjoying it

but also I wasnt a fan of the whole stealth/vanish vibe

so the major bug was just a hero talent not working?

[cobalt token]

looking at logs

is so funny

33k dps for top 100 world on outlaw

but then a aff lock doing 86k is 99 parse

wait

were doing the same dps

as augmentation

oh god

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1248846465871118356/1328151091459657788/togif.gif

[wintry solar]

What was our tier before prepatch?

I can't remember

The hero tree tier

I remember

Double coup

[clever badge]

is Coup de Grace / Unseen blade something to keep track of, or if it procs it procs?

[narrow blaze]

hey folks, what is good trinket to accompany antennas when i play m+ ?

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel i found solo

[vivid vessel]

WHATDEHELLY

[tropic zephyr]

this is the reason RAM costs skyrocketted btw

[vivid vessel]

what no

its not ai

you stupid or what

you can clearly see its real lol

cant believe people that thinks everything is ai bro

[tropic zephyr]

ok where is my owlcat then

i know owl bears exists cause duh

[vivid vessel]

its european bro

you wouldnt know

[tropic zephyr]

but owlcats

????

i'm law ofc i'm european

non ue law

as if it's a thing

[shy meteor]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hasty warren]

hi pirates

[granite bramble]

is there anything about pistol shot in outlaw other than use on proc?

[shy meteor]

with proc it always generates 4 cp
so just use ist between 1-3 cp
except when u have 6 stacks then use it immeadtly

[granite bramble]

for beta

[shy meteor]

same shit different day

[granite bramble]

when do i roll the bones

[shy meteor]

always on 1 buff

at 2 or above u kir

[granite bramble]

kir?

[shy meteor]

keep it rolling

if ur talented into that

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/856897810536071208

there u can read anything

[soft bobcat]

Kir isn’t the best

Isn’t the worst

[glad rampart]

Hi im new to the spec i just dont understand if i need to press slice and dice or not. If not then i should press dispatch before anything or i just do the priority then i press dispatch to get slice and dice buff?

[pure folio]

Dispatch gives you slice and dice

You don’t press SnD yourself ever really

[soft bobcat]

You don’t need to press it take it off your bar

[pure folio]

Dispatch is highest priority of your spenders when you do not have the SnD buff

[arctic merlin]

if you play M+ it's ok to press slice and dice before the bubble drops at the start so you don't have to use a dispatch on the first pack

[glad rampart]

Thank you guys

[granite bramble]

do i ever use blade flurry for combo?

[shy meteor]

did u read the faq?

[granite bramble]

is there 1 for beta?

[shy meteor]

its the same beacause the apex talents do not alter ur gameplay

neither the hero talents

and solo literally wrote thinks like (beta-only) or (pre patsch- only) besides the notes

[wintry solar]

Imagine thinking the owlcat is AI

You can tell who's well traveled or not

[arctic merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/gfhmj-gif-12237615378683590679

[granite bramble]

bye

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-axolotl-meme-ai-ai-slop-gif-320631449476692671

[jolly geyser]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/G-kuLaBbQAEKxZF.gif

[twilit scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/pirate-cat-cute-kitten-gif-15214073

[narrow blaze]

Anyone on this ?

[hasty warren]

SH trinket

[narrow blaze]

Scarlett hold?

[tropic zephyr]

Catolotl, now that's something certified real 💯

[hasty warren]

Soul Hunters, it's a boss from the raid

either if u want m+ only trinket I think the Ecodocome one is a good option

[narrow blaze]

Ok thank you

[keen belfry]

cant wait for next weeks build, they are going to save outlaw

[tepid leaf]

I mean i saw this

[torpid lynx]

wdym outlaw is perfect

[tepid leaf]

Supposedly its damage is bugged

[keen belfry]

r u posting prepatch logs rn

[tepid leaf]

bliz didn't elaborate what the bug was, but its bugged

[keen belfry]

as perfect as my stain ridden pants

[tepid leaf]

ye since I thought you said it was worst than aug

[keen belfry]

long story short:
they buffed us because we were underpforming (while we had major bugs)
they fixed the bugs

few days go by, ther revert the buff,

[tepid leaf]

classic blizzard

Bait and Switch

[keen belfry]

and the sickest paart of it iall

when they buffed us they cut our BF % by 10
when they reverted that buff, that only gave us 5% back for BF dmg

[tepid leaf]

look at the bright side, we didn't get the Legion Pre-patch demo lock treatment

[keen belfry]

well we dont get treatments mr gambit

weve had one iteration since week 1 of alpha, and it gave us a shit talent

[tepid leaf]

thats true, and I mean the legion pre-patch was -35% damage to all skills

since they wanted to rework the class

[keen belfry]

dw we are getting huge gameplay updates before midnight

[tepid leaf]

I'll keep playing this spec anyway no matter what they do cause I hate myself

[keen belfry]

welcome to chamapion culb.

[low glade]

have you applied for the outlaw community ambassador position yet?

!awangui

[keen belfry]

yeah they keep declining me

maybe jealous?

[tepid leaf]

I wonder what they do for ambassadors for WoW

i've been a ambassador for another MMO before, and ik they gave me free merch and stuff

except i doubt blizz would want me as a WoW ambassador I'm a filthly pvpe'r

[ebon elbow]

ugh outlaw is so boring now... im depressed

dopamine withdrawals

[crude oar]

And yet it's still by far the most fun spec

[gaunt phoenix]

duality of man

[low glade]

if you need me to start a change.org petition, dm me

[ebon elbow]

i feel like increasing the bottom line by making AR permanent would have solved a lot

[low glade]

yeah make AR have a 45 sec duration

would be sick

!container

[ebon elbow]

Would have decreased complexity

vanishing every 30 sec was great. We had so healing, so much cheap shot possibility

anyway, going to go mourn

gg

[keen belfry]

@gaunt phoenix

[gaunt phoenix]

?!

[dawn talon]

i was summoned

[keen belfry]

we need a community ambassadopr role

[gaunt phoenix]

idk what the ambassador thing will entail

[tepid leaf]

Side note, did they fix Fatebound's auto attack

[gaunt phoenix]

yea

that was the "significant bug fix" they talked about in the last beta tuning

[tepid leaf]

Ah I thought that was the upcoming fix on the 10th

[strange kelp]

The 10th is the same thing

It's just pushing the beta tunings to live

[pastel pendant]

you and me both brother welcome to the club

[cinder relic]

I feel that was the entire issue lol

[pastel pendant]

but you have to understand the casuals with 1000000 posts on the forums LOVE this new version of outlaw!

[pastel pendant]

outlaw was the PERFECT spec before

[tepid leaf]

https://tenor.com/view/wont-somebody-please-think-of-the-children-think-of-the-children-think-about-the-children-children-the-simpsons-gif-20004023

[pastel pendant]

just woke up and im alrdy sad

[cinder relic]

to you

[pastel pendant]

guys sign up to my 22 ara plz thanks

no it was objectively perfect by every conceivable metric by which u design a spec.

not every spec in the game has to be braindead easy some specs can be harder than others

[civic meadow]

was it though

[pastel pendant]

its 100x better than whatever slop we have now

you cannot deny that

[cinder relic]

I disagree

[pastel pendant]

well i disagree with ur disagreement

[cinder relic]

alright

[pastel pendant]

ok cool

[vapid sundial]

Bro

Do you not know

Guy doesn't hate anything blizzard does

He's their #1 fan

[cinder relic]

I hate plenty of what they do

[vapid sundial]

Nuuh

[civic meadow]

i mean a spec that literally doesnt work on some bosses definitely isnt a perfect metric

[pastel pendant]

ok now i want you to explain how this neutered scuffed ass version of pisslaw is better than the perfect gameplay loop of outlaw we had before. im not biased one way or the other i promise

[jolly geyser]

no

[gaunt phoenix]

the previous outlaw was basically unable to function outside of adrenaline rush

so a fight like tindral or dimensius where you had to fly around you are irrecoverably fucked

[pastel pendant]

yes but ur kit allowed u to have it up most of the time

yea certain dungeon mechanics fcked u

but overall its worth it

[civic meadow]

ur kit doesnt allow anything in forced downtime

Idk what u mean

[pastel pendant]

but if ur playing it good u shouldnt have much downtime

thats the point

ur always supposed to have it up most of the time

and u do

unless u die randomly

then ur fcked

[cinder relic]

But encounters force downtime sometimes

[pastel pendant]

yeah depending on the dungeon and that can suck but its still worth it

[cinder relic]

I don't think that's worth it

[pastel pendant]

better than being bored forever

[civic meadow]

Spec was literally unplayable on the last boss of the df mega dungeon

[pastel pendant]

with a boring rotation

[civic meadow]

you legit had to swap specs

good design?

[pastel pendant]

this isnt dfg

df

[thick vigil]

[pastel pendant]

this is

[civic meadow]

yeah outlaw changed so much

ur right

[gaunt phoenix]

permanent adrenaline rush being the baseline meant you could only go downward

there was no upside other than having fun mashing buttons

the spec could either function normally or be cucked by random inconveniences

[cinder relic]

The only upside to outlaws rotation was it was fun, if you liked it that is

[glass mortar]

I mean it had some real upsides like damage agency and some moderate amount of flexibility around when you used vanish windows but that was pretty minor compared to the downsides of uhuh

And not something this version of law couldn't have

If they didn't hate us

[tepid leaf]

i keep doing Random Bgs, and holy crap there is so many sub rogues

all these rogues but me are sub

[gaunt phoenix]

yes, vanish charges were great, and it would be even better if you were not forced to use vanish for adrenaline rush

assuming stealth was still worth a shit of course

[cinder relic]

These weren't real compared to an actual spec being able to move its damage, like sub

[cinder relic]

Yeah like DF s1/s2

[gaunt phoenix]

using vanish or shadow dance only when you ran out of procs was pretty cool back then

[glass mortar]

I mean it was infinitely more real then what outlaws been able to do historically lol

Having damage agency is more fun and better design even if its not cd spec levels of agency

The worst part of New law is that when u pop off or when u do no damage is purely random with little to no player decisions being involved

Outlaws always some flavor of that but I prefer the option to add mild agency

[keen belfry]

me

[gaunt phoenix]

i see

[keen belfry]

this zach guy is funny cuz i agree with him that this new version is piss comapred to before but then he is just basically wrong with how he frames it

banger no cap

[glass mortar]

I assumed that was trolling tbh

[keen belfry]

i think not trolling, hyperbole

he mostly believes it me thinks

also did an arcane beta key

fun spec

[strange kelp]

Arcane kind of felt like the closest a caster got to ranged outlaw back when you could random proc orbs

It was like the caster version of ace

[keen belfry]

it just spits out orbs now

like when you press orb with clearcasting u shoot out 3 more

[strange kelp]

I've been meaning to try arcane after changes, been trying out frost

But after recent tuning I'm expecting it to get gutted somewhere

[ebon elbow]

Right, but even playing perfectly, the damage was on par with the average of other classes. Small iterations to decrease complexity could have brought more players in and balance the damage meters.
My biggest pet peeve were the ppl arguing to remove vanish rotation for thematic reasons. Having stealthy pirates popping in and out of fights is an awesome theme. I feel like outlaw casuals invaded the narrative, but iduno.

[untold wadi]

lol

i never got that part

[pastel pendant]

I agree, youre doing all this button mashing and optimizing ur rotation to do mediocre dmg compared to every1 else. The effort to reward ratio was way off, but thats just a tuning issue. The spec was still fun to play.

[untold wadi]

why tf they care about vanish on outlaw

who cares abt theme when the spec is super fun

[cinder relic]

I liked that vanish and shd were refills

Was an interesting gameplay loop

[pastel pendant]

casual Rpers idk?

i mean i didnt care about vanish being used offensively too, its not like it rly mattered it looked cool to me

[strange kelp]

Buddy it's how half the player base is. Half of the hunter feedback forum in alpha/beta was people being mad they gave survival a gun.

[cinder relic]

I think theme matters to a lot of the player base lol

If sin rogue stops applying bleed and garrote, I think it would, rightfully bother people

[untold wadi]

outlaw already has sick ass gun sounds/animations, and i really love the rtb/kir sounds, vanishing doesn't really ruin it tbh

[strange kelp]

Theme is huge for a very large portion of the player base

And unfortunately they would rather have theme then improved gameplay or class mechanics

[nocturne knot]

Giving outlaw another go, is it still a must to not use 2 daggers?

[pastel pendant]

thats not rly a good comparison, youre still pressing everything u usually would on outlaw, and the vanish animation isnt rly that impactful to the theme, ur still pressing all ur outlaw buttons u usually press

[pastel pendant]

this

ur still pressing everytrhing u usually would and the vanish animation doesnt take away from that and it looks cool to me

[keen belfry]

is this zach guy a blaster

anyone know

[ebon elbow]

The pirate theme was always present. The diff was how aligned to the theme the combat rotation was. Now, its less aligned imo. Nothing piraty about just... hitting the target in front of you...

[gaunt phoenix]

mainhand must be sword/fist/axe/mace

[vapid sundial]

Idk

[gaunt phoenix]

offhand dagger is good and better

[pastel pendant]

now theres a tumbleweed when u bte so the theme is all over the place

gameplay>theme

[untold wadi]

might as well call it "not vanish" and give it the same effect

maybe that'd keep them happy

[cinder relic]

It probably would

But I also just didn't like the gameplay fundamentally of uhuh even if it was just a different button

I don't think it's that crazy to be somebody less invested in the spec to be like: "why is the pirate spec using vanish as a dps cooldown"

"why is outlaw using vanish more than the stealth spec"

I don't think these are unreasonable statements, even if it is true that outlaw has always used vanish offensively

[untold wadi]

yeh maybe so

i don't think it's impossible to keep the gameplay under a different name though

[strange kelp]

Outlaw kinda was the stealth spec, like, it had more interactions with stealth then either assa or sub no?

[pastel pendant]

they 100% could of but ppl would still cry the spec is too hard

[agile orchid]

just wait until the expansion releases, all redditors are going to play rogue after the rework

[pastel pendant]

yeah i get it the barrier to entry was tough, and the spec was a harder to play compared to others, but now it takes u 30 min to learn a spec theres no learning anymore

no improving or seeing urself progress

[agile orchid]

that's an exaggeration

[vapid blaze]

they did nothing to make the spec interesting to casuals tho

[untold wadi]

outlaw defo took long time to figure out ngl

[vapid blaze]

and usually the rogue type has infinite players

[untold wadi]

not 30 mins

[ebon elbow]

Outlawbotomized

[agile orchid]

they slowed it down

[untold wadi]

once u know it idk it feels simple

[vapid blaze]

yeah but who cares
why would u play rogue over bm/ret or warlock

[agile orchid]

and you no longer hate yourself when you're out of adrenaline rush

[cinder relic]

But they didn't want to keep the gameplay.

[untold wadi]

but rtb container n shit doesn't really make sense to most people from the outside probably

[agile orchid]

because you find it fun

[vapid blaze]

idk they could have just made it visually cool
and people would start playing it

[cinder relic]

Yes but like, CTO being better in stealth is a lot different than what uhuh caused

[pastel pendant]

thats the thing, if ur playing the spec good u should rarely not have adr up

[untold wadi]

uptime specs really are annoying though

old icy veins frost mage had same downtime issue

even if it's fun, downtime/pauses/dying randomly totally kill it

like frost mage didn't have stealth, so if healer is drinking u just watch ur veins tick down

shit like that in keys or nokhud flying was ass

[cinder relic]

There's been a handful of uptime specs like this

[untold wadi]

it's kinda annoying i end up loving them all

[cinder relic]

But crackshot outlaw was the most extreme that ever existed for sure

There's nothing wrong with enjoying that style of gameplay

[pastel pendant]

it can be frustrating yeah but its still addicting to play, now theres just no desire to play it

[jolly geyser]

find something else

[untold wadi]

yeh ngl it's back to tanking

better qs anyway

[agile orchid]

unfortunately wow dads cannot handle high apm specs

[untold wadi]

lol

[agile orchid]

so we're back to shadowlands outlaw pretty much

[cinder relic]

The spec is still high apm

[pastel pendant]

but theres several low apm specs in the game for them to play

[agile orchid]

it is, but not as extreme

[untold wadi]

like assa

is available

[pastel pendant]

its not nearly as high as it was

[untold wadi]

i don't think it's bad either to have a super hard/fast outlier spec

[agile orchid]

I only tried outlaw on live prepatch and honestly it's pretty fun to play

except the energy starvation part

[pastel pendant]

maybe cuz i only have like 22% haste but its slow wayy slower

[agile orchid]

well you no longer have perma adr

[pastel pendant]

it just feels clunky and dull to me

[agile orchid]

so ofc it's slower

[ebon elbow]

Already did

But I want to come back

[jolly geyser]

like something else in another class or spec

[ebon elbow]

Completely transitioned to dk. All specs are so tightly designed.

[limpid grotto]

Assassination has so much downtime

Doesn’t feel complete

[strange kelp]

Thats intended

[agile orchid]

assassination is intended to be a slow spec

[cinder relic]

I loved outlaw for years, then s3 DF happened and I didn't like how it played, rather than mulling over how depressed I am, I just started playing assa and sub for the time being