im really stuck on this arnt I?
#tc-research
rugged steeple
maiden cargo
I think you can just delete actions.build=pistol_shot,if=combo_points.deficit>=1+buff.broadside.up+talent.quick_draw.enabled&buff.opportunity.up. That's the only spot the APL mentions pistol shot
or, you can make it specify needing a talent that you don't have
rugged steeple
im gonna check it out
I think im in over my head lol. its showing a lot of invalid arguments
knotty oriole
You have to make the next line = instead of =/
Since that’s the first line in the action list
maiden cargo
my bad for misleading you
rugged steeple
nah, i think i figured it out. Thank you for the help
is there something like this https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/Rogue/wiki/Subtlety-APL-Research for outlaw?
maiden cargo
look at the sidebar, it has an outlaw link
rugged steeple
wow this is exactly what i wanted to see!
I think pistol shot smooths the rotation a bit. 20 secs of waiting time compared to 40 secs without using it (over 5 mins)
craggy zodiac
Where can I see what settings I should use on raidbots to simulate stat weights for my sin rogue in a mythic+ environment?
regal agate
there is no m+ option. you can either use diffrent fight styles and weight them diffrently (e.g. like magicsm from shadow priest) or a custom fight script (like the one i pinned in #subtlety). either way you will only have a estimate
plucky mural
my Juju trinket wont stack in apl by default. how do you run weights from raidbots advanced tab?
late willow
plucky mural
thanks.
cunning moth
m still not sure if during the opener with Shadowblades (where SS generates 3 CP) if its worth finishing on 4/5 CP (when shadow techniques procs) or just pressing another SS to make it 5/5 (wasting 2 cp)
I mean the sim says to just finish on 4+ CP but i cant find any top logs where they do this.
Most of them just do 2 SS and waste 2 CP every time....
most of them just seem to be okay with wasting that shadow tecniques CP in the opener.
Is this correct or what? idk why so many are not finishing at 4/5 cp
cause i think with the 50% buff to combo point builders during Shadow Blades it could be worth to cast 2 SS and waste CP and finish at 5/5 CP ?
What do you all think?
regal agate
It is worse to do so.https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/veG6TpH4jcE7H17cne5H1z/simc
how bad will come down to your talent choice
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/b26DTEzAMiY1UMckNHu4PD/simc
cunning moth
Thanks for checking this out Fuu ❤
regal agate
we checked that before, i just showcased it again
0.3 is within a range you wont notice at all
wheat stream
Can you check it with wm/ds?
regal agate
you can do it yourself just change the apl line:
actions.stealthed+=/call_action_list,name=finish,if=combo_points.deficit<=1-(talent.deeper_stratagem.enabled&buff.vanish.up)
to
actions.stealthed+=/call_action_list,name=finish,if=combo_points.deficit<=0
wheat stream
Thank you, I'll try it out
regal agate
you could also use combo_points>=cp_max_spend instead of combo_point.deficite<=0
both efficient just mean use finisher with max cp
wheat stream
I need to learn how to do custom Sims like that
cunning moth
does that finish at max CP all the time or just during The shadow blades buff Fuu?
unkempt sail
Most people i‘ve seen have 3 shadowstrike traits so I guess it’s an increase for them since SS hits for 15-20k
pliant kelp
not sure if anyone has brought this up yet but major changes to frenetic corpusle
https://gyazo.com/866bf99438008cbe49aa16b3a0d1eb17
quick testing looks like proc rate quadrupled or so
knotty oriole
Not surprised about buffs to the raid trinkets, was much needed! SimC should pick up any hotfixes pretty soon though if there are any.
knotty oriole
But yeah, that's a pretty big change to the damage too though
Used to be higher
Quad proc rate would put it roughly the same, since that's about 1/4 the damage it used to have for a 385
But might be a bit different, will have to see the full hotfix data
pliant kelp
i'd say it's actually higher avg damage, i've had many instances where i've lost the stacks and just gained nothing
knotty oriole
Yeah I could believe that
split sorrel
It's in SimC btw
knotty oriole
2 RPPM with a 45s duration would definitely have some reasonable chance of falling off before
RRPM was changed from 2.25 to 9.0
So yeah it was multiplied by 4 as you suspected
pliant kelp
now we gotta hope they tweak construct overcharger
tough hornet
i have two 380s of that on my toons
past basalt
what does orange azerite name on herodamage mean?
rough thunder
past basalt
oh, sorry, missed that
grave haven
Not sure if it's the right place to ask, but are the 1T, 1TA, HD profiles/fight styles in herodamage available somewhere?
like to be used with raidbots/simc
split sorrel
They aren't not in SimC yet, you can use them by copy/pasting the source from our scripts tho.
We had a talk about an overhaul of the SimC preset since they're kinda outdated.
Although Hero Damage ones aren't totally perfect yet, it's still WIP. (Both because there are missing things on SimC and because I didn't cared that much about casters constraints yet, it's in my TODO list)
grave haven
Can you point me to the scripts? I had a look over the github repo but couldn't find them
grave haven
Thanks
upbeat folio
Thanks for the impressive work tho
split sorrel
No problem, as long as I'm not running out of ideas I'll add things.
And I have plenty of ideas !
I'm not alone tho, Koji and Mystler does take care of most things regarding the rogue module in SimC. Fuu and all the community in general helps on the APLs. ;)
regal agate
Simc Overwrite for the SS nerf:
override.spell_data=effect.734512.coefficient=3.00614
You can use it in advanced simulation on riadbots.
cold ivy
quick question how do i overwrite the SS nerf in advanced ? cant find what i need to change
regal agate
i added a pic to the pin in #assassination that shows where to put it
iron acorn
does anyone know the override for archive of the titans buff?
regal agate
you can view the spell data change on https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/50a61cc4c1ccd37b3bcd215ebf8bae02f94dd9ff. and find the values there . The simc wiki has a section for overwrites to assist you.
but its probably less effort to wait for the update, raidbots has it with the next build update.
regal agate
will come soon™
split sorrel
Should be in few hours (2 I think), I started it quickly after hotfix pull.
regal agate
Raidbots just rebuild, nightly should be up to date in ~5 minutes (is updated now)
hidden raptor
Nice
vale charm
@split sorrel why does the Herodamage M+ option include the RA traits that would only be active in Uldir? I mean I understand that it probably is just a dataset imported for each chart. Thanks for all your hardwork!
trail path
I suppose it'd be in-case of testing theoreticals or something
vale charm
Oh also, is there any reason that Snake Eyes stacking seemed to come out so low compared to raid sims? It just seemed weird. Someone was asking if they should switch to a Deadshot build for M+ in #outlaw. I told them to try out both because the dungeon sim is fairly new and I could not see why it would sim much worse? MfD resets maybe?
True. I am just bringing them up because I know it is fairly new and wanted to give input.
split sorrel
Yes it was just to show its theoretical value.
Debating myself if I should keep it or not, probably not. Maybe if Blizzard adds "M+ RA-like" ^^
vale charm
Okay, thanks for the quick response!
split sorrel
No problem 😃
hallow gull
Apologies if this is a stupid question, i've noticed that Raidbots has been updated with the changes however I can't find the latest nightly build on the simcraft website (last windows nightly was on the 15th). I assumed raidbots was using the same thing, or am I missing something?
regal agate
raidbots did rebuild after the hotfix data where updated.
You can check the update date and the simc commits to see what changes are in on the ftp.
You can build it from source if you want to always have all recent changes in.
e.g. looking at the nightly builds the latest release there has the hotfix changes not in.
hallow gull
Yea I assumed it wouldn't as it was released before the hotfixes. I have no idea how to even begin building it from source, so I'll just stick to raidbots until theres a new SimC nightly release with the hotfixes in. Cheers!
shadow mesa
any news on outlaw sim problems? 
tough hornet
why is the sin apl checking the number of targets in range for garrote upkeep? e.g. spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3+azerite.shrouded_suffocation.enabled in this block (!exsanguinated|remains<=tick_time*2&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3+azerite.shrouded_suffocation.enabled)
and why does Shrouded suffication affect the target threshold
the full action: actions.dot+=/garrote,cycle_targets=1,if=(!talent.subterfuge.enabled|!(cooldown.vanish.up&cooldown.vendetta.remains<=4))& combo_points.deficit>=1&refreshable& (pmultiplier<=1|remains<=tick_time&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3+azerite.shrouded_suffocation.enabled)&(!exsanguinated|remains<=tick_time*2&spell_targets.fan_of_knives>=3+azerite.shrouded_suffocation.enabled)& (target.time_to_die-remains>4&spell_targets.fan_of_knives<=1|target.time_to_die-remains>12)
as far as i can tell the condition checks 1) if you have subterfuge and vanish/vendetta are coming up, dont garrote, 2) make sure the dot is refreshable and you wont overcap cp 3) dont override a buffed garrote unless it wont tick again, 4) dont override an exsanged garrote unless it wont tick again, and 5) make sure the target wont die before the dot runs out
but not sure what the amount of targets in range of fok is for
also for this condition, does tick_time report the exsanguinated tick time if it is exsanguinated, or the normal tick time of garrote?
in !exsanguinated|remains<=tick_time*2
knotty oriole
tick_time should be the current scheduled tick_time
tough hornet
so that condition overrides if there are 2 or less ticks remaining, gotcha
knotty oriole
Those target thresholds are really just in the early refresh blocks though.. e.g. don't do the early clipping if you have 4+ targets, just wait for it to expire instead
tough hornet
is that for the SS bug?
knotty oriole
No, we currently don't account for that
I think it's more about just managing it on multiple targets instead of refreshing on existing targets, might want to refresh on the target that is already expired first instead
since it's a cycle_targets block
tough hornet
ah
mortal meadow
where can I find the item ID for like a 365 HoA
so I can sim what my dps would be if I had a 365 hoa
split sorrel
Just change its level
dreamy kindle
Is there any way to sim a different spec through raidbots using only an armory profile?
As in I logged out as Sub, trying to sim Sin.
regal agate
just paste your information there
dreamy kindle
I'm trying to sim a different spec than is on my armory.
regal agate
you can run a sim and copy your gear profile from the profiles tab (i cut out the apl part from the image)
and change spec + talents (purple underlined)
dreamy kindle
Oh cool, exactly what I was looking for.
split sorrel
Btw, this channel isn't for "support" but rather research. While it's okay sometimes to ask for help especially when it's a "tricky option", this one is pretty standard. 😃
dreamy kindle
My bad, wasn't too sure where to post it and this channel is the quickest way to get to you knowledgeable people.
hoary zephyr
Do we know if Azerite trait effects like bleeds and poisons are affected by things like Exang and TB?
covert wyvern
right now i believe the opener with master assassin in the APL is garrote, mut, rupture, vend, vanish, TB, mut, env. wouldn't it be better to be garrote, mut, rupture, vend, mut, TB, vanish, env, mut, env?
the second has a bit more rng, so it may require two mut's before vanish if you don't get any crits, but this should optimize the dmg in your master assassin windows. unless there's something I'm missing and there's another reason why you want to cast TB in your MA window
compact viper
^^ I see the second one as a much better opener
tough hornet
thats what the old opener was with mantle of the master assassin in legion
tough hornet
as a suggestion for herodamage features: https://i.imgur.com/VRHXM65.png
this is super nice from bloodmallet
also, under combinations, a suggestion enable combos of traits like 1x archive 2x blade in the shadows, 1x inevitability 2x blade in the shadows etc
right now its just 3 of a kind i think
split sorrel
Yes the filters are planned since weeks, with resorting and a bunch of other things. It's just not top prio until I've finished the talents thingy, more about that tomorrow. (Previous priority was M+ Sims) 😉
As for combinations, this won't happen. It would means we sims couple of millions of possibilities per spec which is kinda not possible unless Hero Damage got a big farm of servers ^^
tough hornet
fair enough, last suggestion specifically for subtlety simc profile, is it possible to make the default gear/talent set enveloping shadows build due to the unfeasibility of farming sharpened blades gear at the moment? it only is worth it with 2-3 traits at the moment, and since the only source of sharpened blades gear is the m+ cache or pvp cache its very unlikely to have enough pieces for it
knotty oriole
"the unfeasibility of farming sharpened blades gear at the moment" I mean, realistically every Azerite trait is unfeasible to farm at +340 so it's going to be problematic regardless
tough hornet
its less of an issue on herodamage because you can select profiles and the azerite trait comparison shows combos with different talents now
but 3rd party sites only use the default profile
i just think when 99% of sub rogues will be using the ES build for singletarget its a bit misleading
knotty oriole
Considering almost every raid trait for both Asn and Sub are terrible
tough hornet
the darkshadow talent build only pulls ahead with sharpened blades stacking, whereas every other combo of traits ES is better
its like a perfect world scenario, so i think it should be excluded for now for the similar reasons titanforging or darkmoon deck fathoms etc is excluded from profiles
or not excluded, but just the default profile shouldnt use it imo
knotty oriole
Inevitability actually sims best with DS over ES as well, so basically making a consideration just for the single BitS trait in raids doesn't seem worthwhile imo
People will have to sim their own Best in Bags gear regardless with all the randomness involved
tough hornet
eh im just looking at logs and i havent seen any single person with either 3x inev or 3x sharpened blades combo at all, i just think for something no one is running it shouldnt be the default, but i understand your reasoning as well
knotty oriole
Well of course not because everyone is going to be running at least 1x Laser Matrix or Archive
But, regardless, trends like that always lag behind sim discoveries
tough hornet
the main reason is it feels like i have to select everything to ES or exclude sharpened blades to see what actual combos are good for my character at the moment, it feels like that shouldnt be the case for simming, especially if every single person has to exclude at the moment
and i cant do that on 3rd party sites like bloodmallet
(which makes herodmg better, but not everyone uses herodmg)
i like to use both
knotty oriole
There are a lot of fights where most people are running DS, like M Fetid and whatnot
tough hornet
yeah i understand that too
knotty oriole
Default profiles are never going to be perfect for everyone with Azerite how it is working right now
Which is why Aethys added this new feature today, of course
knotty oriole
Unless people are swapping talents there is no one-size-fits-all option for talents when simming Azerite combinations
They all like different talent combos best
Just wait until I put in my Find Weakness optimizations for Sharpened Blades today 😉
tough hornet
im personally in the position of using 1x 385 raid trait then whatever i want for other 2 pieces since i have 340 so maybe that would make me use SB
knotty oriole
Well, for me it was a 1.7% gain for 2x SB traits so it's quite possible
tough hornet
is it possible to release the combinations profile generator you guys use too btw? for simming both trait and talent combos simultaneosly, right now i run like a bunch of sims selecting gear then talent compare on each of those
if its proprietary i understand
knotty oriole
I believe it's on github somewhere
split sorrel
It's in Ravenholdt-TC GitHub org actually ;)
plucky mural
Can someone help me put together a sin apl for short sim 3-6T patchwerk. 20 or 40s. No buffs.
Just need G g g ct. the rest can be normal. Galecaller can be at open or the exang.
I've tried messing with the current apl and can't make it work.
I don't need it to vanish or vendetta. Just want to check trinket/stat weights for a short SS trash open.
compact viper
Is there a reason Stacks 1-2 were removed on HD from the combinations tab?
split sorrel
Yes, it was kinda "pointless" in our opinion considering talents changes should be considered at 3x.
At 1x and 2x it's a bit tricky since it relies on what else you have.
In case a different setup build is needed for a given azerite, then it would show up on the 3x table. If so, it'll be plugged back to the Azerite charts, so if you want to see how it performs at 1x or 2x stacks compared to default then you check the said chart (stacked azerite chart).
In between states are too unreliable to be shown.
compact viper
Okay Thanks!
split sorrel
On next update, we'll filter a bit more what's shown, i.e. a different build will be plugged back only if it is "ahead" by a good margin of the defaults, i.e. more than 0.8% (which is about ~ 100-200 dps depending on the fighstyle). I'm still fine tuning this feature.
Also, all generics will have their own override if there are better talents, which will be useful for AoE fighstyles 😉
Of course to make a good usage of all this, filters will be somewhat required, which is the following feature on top of the TODO list 😃
calm sandal
AoE APL only casts garrote twice instead of 3x with SS
which is a major loss of value of that trait
wheat forge
Also used https://pastebin.com/JUAByguj and it yielded the same results(as expected)
https://gyazo.com/37c1ee3f4b6122ce935379703bf86d21
Was going to edit the APL in a little bit, but definitely worth looking at.
knotty oriole
Technically all the sims are slightly inaccurate for AoE since we do not implement the SS bug
wheat forge
Well trying to sim for m+ scenarios. This could drastically change the outcome how a trait is performing relative to others. In addition to the garrote bug there, it's not garroting 3 times, instead using the CP's you get from the first 2 to not over cap.
knotty oriole
Well, what I'm saying is that sims already slightly overvalue the trait in HAC/multi-DoT scenario since we don't implement the non-snapshot refresh bug
(Where if you apply a Garrote outside of Stealth it lowers the damage of all your SS Garrotes)
tough hornet
https://i.imgur.com/fE5lkww.png when using vendetta during subterfuge window i can get 4 gcds in subterfuge, the last garrote here shouldnt be possible, is this a bug
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wM7Fn4WKgadyGPjJ/#fight=last&type=casts&view=timeline for some reason wcl doesnt show the first garrote in casts https://i.imgur.com/2ac6QNV.png
3rd garrote cast should not be empowered as its the 4th gcd, it still is
another example showing subterfuge aura
clearly 4 casts from stealth and only afterwards subterfuge faded
vale bobcat
tested all different types of variations i could think of as to why that happens @tough hornet
came up with diddly
vale bobcat
time to count some frames
vale bobcat
recorded myself doing gar > ven > gar gar and 4x gar
counted frames between first cast and 4th cast
difference of ~20 frames between the 2
idle bolt
sure its empowered?
and wheres that 4th cast from stealth?
ah vendetta u mean
that 1.7k tick looks pretty unempowered tho
tough hornet
yes thats because the 5th cast (4th garrote) overrides the empowered one
i was just showing its still off cd
and castable
when it shouldnt be
tough hornet
no, it doesnt, but its still a gcd
knotty oriole
How does that matter for Suberfuge though?
tough hornet
i broke stealth with the first garrote
theres a non highlighted vendetta cast there
knotty oriole
Subterfuge doesn't kick in until you break Stealth. If Vendetta doesn't break Steath it doesn't start the Subterfuge timer
tough hornet
i did stealth ->garrote->vendetta->garrote->garrote->rupture
didnt start with vendetta
knotty oriole
I see, I was referring to your WCL image but I see what you said about it being not correct
I have historically found that Subterfuge can fit an extra GCD in sometimes depending on aura lag
But I don't know if this case you're mentioning is consistent
knotty oriole
Could be Vendetta is flagged as being a hasted GCD for some reason
tough hornet
only benefit for rotation i found is you can do vanish->rupture->garrote->vendetta->garrote and they are all empowered garrotes
saves a gcd before exsang maybe?
plucky mural
I would never want to press my luck tbh. vend before the vanish would do the same thing.
gleaming fern
might just be that vendetta GCD scales with haste, which means that the 4th GCD after stealth/vanish comes in ~0.1sec before subterfuge drops because of it
round canyon
it looks like the GCD for vendetta is scaling with haste
ionic isle
if vendetta GCD is scaling with haste, isn't it better to use galecaller before vendetta?
ionic isle
it's all about min maxing 😄
mossy hearth
sacred grove
@split sorrel what is that mfd icon on trait simming in herodamage?
compact viper
Is HD updated with nerfs/buffs from today
noble creek
The loot table for this weeks world boss shows trinkets not on herodamage or raidbots
Were these not in any previous build? Or are the loot tables messed up.
For clarity.
dreamy musk
I don't see that trinket on worldboss loottable: https://www.wowhead.com/npc=132253/jiarak
noble creek
Oh, strange. On mmo champ it shows that it’s on the loot table.
Meh, maybe a difference in builds.
dreamy musk
¯_(ツ)_/¯
maiden cargo
is raidbots update yet
umbral dew
is raidbots update yet
fading spear
raidbots has been updated for a while now afaik, it was updated when i woke up this morning
grave wharf
Literally a banner at the top of the page on raidbots: "Reorigination Array is now supported! Sept 25th hotfixes are also up-to-date."
rain ruin
Any word on herodamage update?
proven sparrow
Erhm, what happened to first dance on the azerite sims for sub?
knotty oriole
There was a bug with the hotfix data and how it was being parsed. Should be getting fixed.
Aethys has to run the Sub reports again
craggy zephyr
hmm, with the new "first dance" trait, could it be worth to dance into double evis with mfd?
proven dagger
can we get some insight into what made snake eyes sim so much higher over the night?
fathom dock
Idk if its SE but im simming 1k higher almost with same gear(1SE trait)
untold rover
I’m also seeing a jump in dps with snake eyes all of a sudden
topaz yacht
snake eyes trait simming abnormaly different on raidbots nightly build compared to weekly.... anyone knows what is going on? (like 1k dps difference with 2 traits)
difference between nightly and weekly i mean
weekly sim
nightly sim
normally i use ACE/DS head/shoulders of same ilvl... on weekly they sim higher then snake counterparts, on nightly they sim 1.2k dps less then snake counterparts
plucky mural
do you have brigands blitz on another piece? maybe something else in the nightly was adjusted outside of your snakes.
upbeat hearth
No, most of us are resimming our gear today vs yesterday and seeing 500-1k increases
in same gear
untold rover
I also believe snake eyes is suddenly simming higher over night.
upbeat hearth
Yea
untold rover
Easily 400-500 for a single trait.
boreal patrol
can you link the full report please?
acoustic crown
another example, full report @boreal patrol https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sL4hvAhJ6QEGmESjXemdT9
boreal patrol
ty, will look into it
untold rover
Sorry I can’t share my report but gear compare really showed the difference. Last night it was saying laser matrix and snake eyes were similar and now snake eyes jumps way ahead.
Sort of unrelated am I reading the outlaw apl correctly? If you have one snake eyes trait it will reroll rtb regardless of how many snake eyes stacks you have until you get two buffs. This means munching snake eyes stacks.
boreal patrol
you reroll according to that condition but only at 0-1 stacks (max 2 with BS)
that is the reset on the next line
oh, i see what you mean the reset only kicks in on 2+ ranks
hm, simming it it does not really make a difference at 1 rank
untold rover
So it breaks even I guess. That’s why. The info in the snek command is sort of misleading but if it doesn’t matter well then....it doesn’t matter.
Thank you!
kind helm
Seeing a loss in DPS on assassination w/ poisoned wire between weekly and nightly, no other traits affected by update on Monday as far as I can tell.
kind helm
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pyZfamtnvN62tWLwzBRTcX/simc - weekly
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/teh9Qi1WfBXY6iuLKCxbRa/simc - nightly
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/e9f218146f634f98fd0a3279151f1becf7648a58
Only change I see is to poisoned wire, which I'm running—and it looks like following those changes my mutilate lost 10% crit and fell back to parity with the rest of my abilities. Makes me think I'm not seeing the benefit from poisoned wire on nightly.
sage escarp
proven sparrow
You're not using any uldir piece, thus missing out on 300 secondary stats. But such discussions are better placed in #outlaw
fading spear
any word on snake eyes for nightly build? Seems really unusually high
vagrant quail
anyone having problems with azeritepowerweights addon?
it onyl slow 0 every toolltip
knotty oriole
“No, most of us are resimming our gear today vs yesterday and seeing 500-1k increases in the same gear”
I hope people are considering they likely have one more stack of Reorigination Array this week. 😃
But will look into if anything is up with Snake Eyes. Nothing should have changed with the commit above. But will investigate tonight.
kind helm
@knotty oriole I referenced commit above because I lost 10% crit to mutilate and 300dps and only change pertaining to me was to Poison Wire, which I would have imagined would have been a DPS increase due to buff to trait.
boreal patrol
there seems to be some very weird bug (with at least Snake Eyes) that we're trying to track down, please be a little patient
kind helm
Did not intend to put unnecessary emphasis on the poisoned wire issue, I just wanted to make sure it was known as something separate to the snake eyes problem. Could be related too—since both were updated to use max_stacks
boreal patrol
it may very well be related koji made a change to buffs that are initialized at more than 1 stack (first dance, snake eyes and poisoned wire) because we got weird spell data from the client
but it looks like that change has some side effects that i'm currently trying to get behind
dreamy kindle
Is there a reason why the 3rd stack of the first dance is only worth 5 dps while the 1st and 2nd stack are worth so much more?
regal agate
the stacking means you gain a lot of crit, to a point where it loses value
dreamy kindle
I just didn't expect it to go from 480 a trait to 5
boreal patrol
ok, after some.. interesting... debugging session i found and fixed the issue
i pinged seriallos about updating the nightly build on raidbots
boreal patrol
what do you mean? i'm in the simc team and have direct access 😄
kind helm
Oh just pushing code w/out peer review
no shame in that and not like this is prod code for jetliner avionics
fiery jewel
you can go and look at the apls and shit yourself and report whatever problems you find. whats the problem?
kind helm
Was no problem I wanted to see what the fix was and checked PR's and saw nothing then noticed it was just commited
boreal patrol
peer review only works if you have a bigger team and more extensive changes. on the rogue module it's just me and koji mainly and we review each other by simply checking the diffs
besides this was a "simple" emergency fix, so in this case a peer review process would just be a time sink
kind helm
Yeah I support it all day, was not trying to cast shade was just looking for location of fix
pure curiosity
untold rover
Thank you!
unkempt sail
i have 1 snake eyes and 1 ace up your sleeve. what has the higher priority keeping snake eyes buff up or using BtE?
dunno if this is the right channel
unkempt sail
ok thx for the quick answer
tough hornet
https://i.imgur.com/VLQGoY8.png is this tooltip bugged?
it increases by 4434 for first cast and 2217 for the 2nd cast
is that intentional?
and if so is that how the sim is handling it?
knotty oriole
lol
I doubt that is intentional
But I will check to see what we're doing in SimC
Doesn't look like we implemented it that way, it's the same as the other ones right now
Could change it but I'd like to get confirmation that it's intended first
tough hornet
so either tooltip is bugged or it could have extra value ingame 🤔
knotty oriole
Unfortunately it's somewhat hard to test since it doesn't show up on the character sheet
Will investigate, thanks for mentioning
tough hornet
also with the first dance it might be worth starting dance at 2-3cp to get the crit on the evisc
need to test it more tho
knotty oriole
Appears it is just a display issue
split sorrel
Basically hotfixes cannot change tooltips, this azerite was changed but the tooltip doesn't reflect the change. Although it's just display, it should work as intended (unless there is another bug)
west prism
Is "The First Dance" trait bugged on AoE in simc?
because according to bloodmallet numbers its a 48 dps increase over having 0 traits at all on aoe
That doesnt seem right
tough hornet
there was a simc bug when bloodmallet did their sims and they havent reupdated
herodmg is updated
split sorrel
HeroDamage is always updated whenever there is rogue changes
Since its primary usage is for rogues
craggy zephyr
any new info on min maxing first dance? i'm thinking it could be worth to double evis with mfd
tough hornet
im not sure about that but starting symbols + dance with 3cp in order to get the evisc on the 2nd action might also be good
(with dark shadow build only probably)
ss evisc ss ss evisc, you miss 1 ss but 2 evisc in shadow dance with one having the crit buff
boreal patrol
i did play around with it a little but did not really see increases
magic sleet
does anyone know why in herodamage some traits are a lot better with FW/MFD compared to their other combination counterparts
like dagger in the back with FW/MFD sims a lot better than otherwise
tough hornet
think about it, if you reduce armor by 40% does a physical dmg hit hit more
tough hornet
also thoughts, is it worth using shadow dance once on wipe to get 2 the first dance stacks on pull, or do they reset 🤔
boreal patrol
iirc the buff is removed when dance expires (despite the tooltip not indicating that)
topaz yacht
btw, what is bleeding doing underneath raidbots raid debuffs?
isnt that removed for BfA?
i tried simming and it doesnt do anything turned on/off
latent hedge
split lintel
How does raidbots handle Reorigination Array? Does it live update with your Navigations? Or does itstay fixed at what you had at the start
tough hornet
It's fixed to what you had at the start
Dynamically updating array is a planned simc feature but not working yet
split lintel
oooh. Lovely. Thanks for the heads up
round canyon
it is dynamic @split lintel @tough hornet
if you open up the HTML report you can actually see if it switched and how often
split lintel
Oh really? thanks Loktark appreciate that
rain ruin
@split sorrel for herodamage's mythic+ sims, could it not just do individual sims for say... A pack of 3 mobs, multiply that by 3, a large pack of non-elites, and a boss ? Maybe just adding in something that only allows it to use >1min cooldowns on one of the packs and the boss. Then just average the results? This way it could restealth between packs.
regal agate
if you do it that way you would have all your cd's up in the next sim, you would need to carry over your cd's etc..
additional would this require a lot of apl optimization to work.
The current approach is a better estimate for m+ then other fight style we have. One simple way to gain the lost value from stealthing back would be to lower the cooldown of vanish.
split sorrel
The best way would be to be able to "reset the precombat action list". It's not done in 5mins tho and I cannot work on it atm. If someone else implements it for sure I'll add it to the fighstyle 😃
The other way (but it's way more long to implement) is to save the state at the end of a sim and re-use that on the next one. This would be some sort of "composite v2" 😉
rain ruin
^ that's exactly what I was thinking. I unfortunately know nothing of the language and syntax and such that is used in these sims. :(
boreal patrol
I think i can look into making it work with a restealth action in the coming week
split sorrel
Yes we discussed a bit internally and we could allow stealth to be casted from the APL under some circumstances.
It's very specific to rogue, but since a more global solution will not appear anytime soon the workaround will do the job until then 😃
strong gorge
Would that affect potion cd etc?
boreal patrol
incoming: https://i.imgur.com/JLXe3KO.png
example, increase with 3x Shrouded Suffocation for assa in HeroDungeon fightstyle https://i.imgur.com/t2wiHm0.png
that does not account for the bug though (i am still hoping for it to get fixed and don't get why it wasn't yet)
plucky mural
Once this hero dungeon fight style is ready, will raidbots support it and if not what is the best way to tinker with apl?
tough hornet
raidbots wont support it as is because herodungeon is not a default sim option like hecticaddcleave
unless it gets added to the default fightstyles list (which imo it should be)
regal agate
It is def. possible to sim it on raidbots with advanced simulations, but this requires more effort/knowlage to set up
plucky mural
my only concerns, are regarding low cp ruptures in aoe (2+ or 3+) and then ct refresh at 5s or 9s instead of standard values. in higher mob counts.
but now we are getting into a bunch of wonky shit based on pull counts.
boreal patrol
You can copy the hero dungeon Fightstyle script from GitHub into raidbots advanced
split sorrel
Once the fightstyle will be a bit more "polished" I'll see to add it to SimC baseline.
For now, since it's still pretty "WIP", I would like to keep it out. Especially since the out of combat actions aren't triggered unless a workaround is put (which is the case for stealth here) 😉
plucky mural
sounds good
knotty oriole
There are likely some updates coming later about Mutilate logic when using Double Dose as well for multi-target scenarios
Still working on the exact conditions, but it appears to be a pretty significant gain just to tab-Mutilate (for poisons) at low target counts with any number of DD traits
radiant creek
Oh that's interesting. I got a single juicy DD and was wondering if it's better than fan. Granted I never use it in dungeons.. 🤔
Wonder if it would be okay in m+ with that in mind. SS and DD and once garrotes are up mutilate the targets into ruptures instead of using fan.
Because my normal m+ setup is 340/385 SS head and shoulders but it could be 385/385 DD/SS
plucky mural
@radiant creek soon.
pastel sundial
i don't know if anyone noticed but if i follow raidbots top gear crit would be my highest secondary stat so i would get crit instead of haste
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rXEgmn3qMPA1RgTSKvWGBA here the stat weights
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cucPzNLi5mbR5kkx5BR5LL stat weights with haste ring just to be sure
wouldnt make sense i guess
winged lion
can anyone help me with simming top gear for m+ trinkets
in the pins it says to use this on the quick sim
raid_events+=/stun,first=48,cooldown=60,duration=12
raid_events+=/adds,count=1,first=0,cooldown=60,duration=44
raid_events+=/adds,count=1,first=0,cooldown=60,duration=46
raid_events+=/adds,count=1,first=0,cooldown=60,duration=48
but wwhat is the equivalent on the top gear settings
is it hectic add cleave 1 boss 40 seconds?
regal agate
you can only run this on advanced simulation on raidbots, so there is no equivalent
plucky mural
@pastel sundial I plotted my haste stat curve and haste is bopping aground 23-25%. Goes from 2nd to last to first within +300 haste
plucky mural
1archive 2ss. With GC.
Disclaimer about stats not being an island and that they do not scale independently.
That is 20% + buffs to 23%
plucky mural
I'll run again without GC trinket. See if that is the culprit.
tough hornet
give us the 4d stat plot
plucky mural
I dont know how to do them. I have heard it takes python or whatnot
split sorrel
@tough hornet they aren't as meaningful as you would think, despite being at the origin of those I don't like them right away
We debated a lot whether we should make them available or not on HD, and we have other ideas with more impactful dataviz than that
uneven moat
@split sorrel is there somewhere I can copy the HeroDamage M+ APL to use in sims?
split sorrel
Github
uneven moat
thanks. do you have a link or something more searchable?
split sorrel
uneven moat
appreciated
sinful torrent
Can anyone help me to understand why SS is so low on herodamage/bloodmallet yet still seems to be the trait people choose in raid/mythic+
split sorrel
You should not be look at the same HD as I do
sinful torrent
split sorrel
First with Exsg in ST, Second without in ST (but with Subterfuge)
Check stack instead of iLvl, or check Exsg instead
since with SS you play Exsg
And if you're interested by M+, check the M+ fighstyle instead of 1T 😉
fiery jewel
can people ask these questions in spec channels instead of bloating the TC channel
sinful torrent
I tried and got directed here
split sorrel
Well actually, it could have been a bug since there were some caching issue the past week that's why I did replied 😉
Otherwise, just read #tc-updates since this question is one of the most asked lately.
(And by read, not just the two last post, scroll up ...)
past basalt
Has there been any research on the correct usage of the MA-window?
fiery jewel
The APL does vanish > tb > mut > env
past basalt
Wondering if tb > vanish > env > mut > env would be better
fiery jewel
Probably not. Also please dont use the theorycrafting channel for basic questions
past basalt
Sorry, thought it was a valid question for the research channel
warm aspen
I handle it the same way we did in legion with mantle lego: Garr->Mut->Rupture->Vendetta->Mut->TB(pool energy if needed) then vanish+envenom->mut->envenom and hope that everything crits and poison bomb procs aswell 😄
wanton anchor
Hey, I have a question about the stacks of archive. Is the number of stacks includet in Raidbots? Atm I have 4 stacks of Archive and my new m+ item (with Razan's Fury) is 1.7% better than my old archive item. But i dont know if Raidbots sims with 1stack of Archive or with 4.
radiant creek
It detects stacks automatically.
wanton anchor
Thanks
knotty oriole
@past basalt "Sorry, thought it was a valid question for the research channel"
I'd say this channel is primarily for research and/or findings less so than asking if there has been any research, if that makes sense. Everyone is free to contribute if they have any findings or potential things to look into that can be backed up, if that makes sense.
boreal patrol
Right, I remember I wanted to write something for the pins as well.
Please keep this channel revolving mostly around actual research with the aim of improving simulations or gathering new knowledge, ideally backed by your own data.
If you think you are onto good suggestions to improve simulations, at least show screenshots of issues (preferably not cropped too much, e.g. show ALL columns in the sample sequence) + your ideas or, even better, back it up with links to logs and simulation reports. You can wrap links in < > to disable Discord previews, if you want.
The best way to help is if you are able to run things like an APL change comparison yourself and link your results for further analysis.
Please do not use this channel for simple questions like "does the sim do X", or "has anyone tried X" unless you have a valid technical concern. Questions to help you with setting up simulations for research are fine provided they do not get too extensive or repetitive. If in doubt, ask in a spec channel or send me a DM.
hope this is ok
idle monolith
Question about battlefield precision. Guide on icy veins seems to think it is bugged in sims and it sucks as a trait. However per details it does a lot of damage ( generally 4% or more). Any thoughts on this trait for pve? Is it wrong in sims?
For reference.
knotty oriole
I don’t think it’s bugged in sims at all. Maybe I’m biased since I was the last person to fix/update it. 😄
The issue with it is that it is pretty low RPPM. The variance will be pretty high for M+ and other content like that.
In raids it should be fine, but 1 RPPM type procs are always pretty high in variance since they are less common.
But I don’t know what basis the guide has for “likely a bug” though.
idle monolith
That makes sense. It appears to be a strong trait for me. I mostly do m+ and it’s generally a lot of damage.
knotty oriole
Since it was tested quite a bit.
idle monolith
Thank you for the input.
knotty oriole
You get log credit for every proc.
Even if triggered by other players.
And multiple instances can stack from multiple players.
As separate debuffs.
idle monolith
I think most “assume “ it doesn’t work cause it’s a pvp trait.
knotty oriole
The difference is that in PvE it procs with 20 stacks. In PvP it procs with 30.
The max is still 30 though so if you get a b2b proc it can extend up to 30 stacks.
Perhaps it appears as a bug because all the other PvP traits are terrible. Haha
idle monolith
Maybe hehe. Thank you again for the clarification
lone scroll
With the recent post in #tc-updates what setup triggers the Tornado usage correctly ? like 6 Bosses, hectic cleave
boreal patrol
in what regard? it's fine for all of these, albeit Zul M is currently the case where Tornado is really relevant and that is best simmed with 5-6 bosses
lone scroll
Yeah, I tried simming for Zul in the past and it was a bit wonky so I figured better ask
so tyty
regal agate
6 bosses patchwork might be best, 5 still has multidotting active (you can ofc just dissable it in the apl)
proven sparrow
As discussed earlier today in #assassination We noticed that the APL was refreshing rupture pretty frequently during the toxic blade debuff. I tried editing the APL and found a miniscule gain not refreshing rupture during TB, but my implementation had the average casts of TB lowered to 12 (from 12.2) and 1% lower uptime on rupture. Im not well versed enough in the bleed refreshing implementation in simc to edit it to clip some pandemic time to not delay TB and/or keep the 99% uptime on rupture, so i cant tell if that would be a gain.
As i said though, gains seem to be really minor at best.
proven sparrow
Speaking of minor gains, intuitively refreshing garrote prior to exsang should be optimal but it seems like the default APL isnt doing that.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/498901738657546240/unknown.png
I tried some way to make it refresh it before and it all simmed pretty equally to the default APL, except if you allowed the overcapping on CP with the garrote before exsang. Then i found a minor gain, but as with the other post i did, this is with my character and may not be applicable to the default profile. However, i feel like it should atleast be investigated
junior light
Can someone provide an explanation why NV from 360 chest pulls almost 2% dps ahead than 385 chest with Rezan's Fury in sub MT situations? If you look at azerite trait lists in Herodamage, RF @ 385 gets ranked higher than NV @ 355; that combined with agility difference should favor the 385 chest but apparently the sim disagrees: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o1CRtQd6XbHLGNExFXqj2Z
torn dome
Fury offers nothing for aoe
junior light
Then is there a reason it's listed so high in Herodungeon setting? Just wondering does that setup assume different actions
torn dome
Diff circumstances. A dungeon isnt 5 mins of 6 bosses
junior light
Mmm, valid point, got any recommendations what settings to sim m+'s properly? HecticAddcleave?
At least setting to Hectic Add Cleave, 3 targets and 3 mins yielded a results where the chests were much better aligned
torn dome
The hd lists NV higher aswell
knotty oriole
6+ targets disabled Nightblade cleaving I think
So if simming something like large number of static targets you may see all kinds of variable results
Vs HAC or lower target count settings
regal agate
6 targets dissables it if you dont run secret technique or nights vengeance(azerite trait)
golden warren
i tought the was vendetta>vanish>rupture>g>g>exsg so the first tick of garrote empowered was inside vendetta already, this is the first vanish after usual open
maybe can be a upgrade of the rotation , really small, but can be something
maiden cargo
Outlaw APL:
I am running 2x Snake Eyes and 1x Archive, and I noticed that removing the condition that says to not reroll if the target Time To Death is less than 20s, gives me a (very) minor damage increase. I changed
actions.finish+=/roll_the_bones,if=(buff.roll_the_bones.remains<=3|variable.rtb_reroll)&(target.time_to_die>20|buff.roll_the_bones.remains<target.time_to_die)
to
actions.finish+="/roll_the_bones,if=(buff.roll_the_bones.remains<=3|variable.rtb_reroll)"
Unsure if it was even worth reporting. But hey.
thin night
Idk where I should post this, but Snake Eyes seems to either gotten nerfed or something on the PTR recently. Worth taking a look. It now does half the damage per SS but lets you do this for 10 ss, though the duration of 12 seconds is not enough to get through them all. I think its possibly a dead trait unless this is a bug.
knotty oriole
Haven't seen the changes to the PTR data yet but I'll take a look
west prism
Not a bug its in the notes for 8.1
unkempt sail
There’s no mention of rtb in the notes so it might be a change for snd build only
gritty vapor
is there precedent or cause for applying a change like this to SnD only? seems more likely its a documentation error on the 8.1 notes, doesnt it?
west prism
Its most likely just a documentation thing, they wouldnt redesign the whole thing for slice and dice only, surely?
unkempt sail
The change would make more sense for snd so you don’t have to use it that often
With rtb you would reroll even if you did not use all the snek stacks
unkempt sail
I’m not talking about meme builds
fathom dock
Im not either
Im talking about outlaw with atleast 1 snek stack
You keep your normal rotation but delay rerolling untill you used up snek stacks
unkempt sail
Imo there’s no point in using up all of them you benefit more from having a good buff
I might be wrong tho
compact verge
simc doesnt garrote multiple targets at the beginning of a multitarget fight does it
knotty oriole
It does but I think only two rather than 3, iirc
then should do one more after Subterfuge
deft thorn
with what sim options do I sim for m+ ? hecticaddcleave / 6 bosses / 1min ?
regal agate
you can use a custom fight script, i pinned one and the herodamage script in #subtlety
deft thorn
any chance u could link me the pastebin here ? discord wont let me jump to the message
nvm now it did
thx again
and how do i get my stat weights from that script?
since it doesnt work in stat weights
regal agate
its in the pin
deft thorn
mb
wheat stream
@regal agate do you Sim ptr changes or is it a waste of time? Curious to see how the bits change works out. Could make nightstalker/darkshadow viable
boreal patrol
they are not implemented for PTR SimC yet. i'll take a first look at it later this week probably
regal agate
some sims on the aoe changes - (zul estimate):
override.spell_data=effect.373837.base_value=5
live sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/stYQc9yGwvEthDZJzJPtFf/simc
ptr sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fvqn8Q369KYXhpoeuyiHg9/simc
storm dpe: 24467 -> 28137 +15%
also for the m+ fight style:
live sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nNJfhhg6DmfPv3nQsL44Nr/simc
ptr sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cWghMuLXfDSFpMhfzwQvNV/simc
regal agate
for the BitS trait changes:
They are a nerf for the standard setup (- 0.2/1/1.4%) depending on the amount of traits.
They are a buff for NS (+ 0.7/1.5/2%) depending on the amount of traits.
This means 3x bits would bring both talents close to equal value
(would still mean the overall value of the trait is lower then on live for ST).
to answer the dark question, dark simmed still a bit lower.
simc report: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hefvi7BUQUfotXyKizhQy/simc
exotic orchid
Are you assuming that bits energy reduction will stack when mentioning 3x bits?
Cuz I doubt it will
boreal patrol
no, it's assuming 2 flat
exotic orchid
ok
regal agate
i assumed it stacks in the sims
boreal patrol
oh, ok
regal agate
going from numbers, it seems more reasonable to assume it does stack(2 energy reduction per trait), however keep in mind that its a assumption i made there
regal agate
for reference this is (top is shado focus, bottom is nightstalker) a more graphical showcase. You can see that a flat 2 energy reduction (that does not stack) would end up in a noticeable value loss (red text).
brave tangle
Hello, has there been extensive math done with Exang? I haven't seen it if there is. The open questions i'm seeing are:
Roughly how many extra per fight make it worth it to use on CD rather than lining up with vendetta
When is it worth it to refresh dots early (outside pandemic) to Exang on CD, rather than holding Exang until next dot refresh
This would roughly tell the rogue: how many seconds it's worth it to hold Exang when vendetta is coming up.
raw knoll
It lines up with vendetta, you can see it in the APL.
brave tangle
So in the APL I see:
exsanguinate,if=dot.rupture.remains>4+4*cp_max_spend&!dot.garrote.refreshable
Also:
rupture,if=talent.exsanguinate.enabled&((combo_points>=cp_max_spend&cooldown.exsanguinate.remains<1)|(!ticking&(time>10|combo_points>=2)))
I don't see anything in the nightly about the relationship between exang and vendetta. The cooldowns naturally line up during first and third vendetta, but second vendetta has no Exang.
But there is clearly logic for refreshing dots before Exang. The sequience shows it refreshing rupture and garrote early (ignoring pandemic window) before using Exang on cooldown.
brave tangle
Am I reading that wrong, or missing something? I'm not sure if there is maybe logic somewhere else
brave tangle
45 second cds and 2 minute cds do not line up at 2 minutes ...
On my apl list it Exsangs at 1:41 and 2:34. Vendetta at 2:03
brave tangle
I mean the timings are basic math though ..
Either you hold exsang or they don't line up
torn dome
Youre missing ss trait
torn dome
The sync is commented below ven
And happens when you have ss equipped
Last it was checked, it was worth to sync with the trait
brave tangle
I see: "Vendetta outside stealth with Rupture up. With Subterfuge talent and Shrouded Suffocation power always use with buffed Garrote."
proven sparrow
It always syncs it at 2.20
But after that its gonna depend on the fight length, delaying exsang is pretty much always a loss, so the question is wether you hold vanish+vendetta for the next exsang or not. On a standard 300s 20% deviation sim its not worth it to hold onto that from 4.20 to 4.40 but removing the deviation or making the fight longer and its suddenly a gain again
Which is why its not bothered with in simc because optimizing for every single different fight length is generally a waste of time because its not useful in most cases
brave tangle
Yea the top taloc parses are split between holding vendetta for Exsang 4 and Holding Exsang 3 for Vendetta. Obviously this is super nuanced
Galecaller's also probably makes it worth it to hold Exsang 2 for 1 minute
Which is probably too much logic for the APL to worry about
proven sparrow
Nothing makes it worth holding exsang for anything, the cooldown is so short that holding it results in missing casts almost all the time. The question is more about wether you hold other things for exsang, you can search through this channel to find out when it was discussed a couple of weeks ago. Anything that results in less exsang usage is a loss
brave tangle
In the previous discussion, was there a consensus about refreshing your dots beforehand? I can't find it here
Do you ignore the pandemic window and just refresh to max when Exsang has 2 seconds on CD still? to me that would have to be the case if you are adamant about using it on CD
brave tangle
I assume unless they are both above x time left
proven sparrow
Fairly sure the APL doesnt refresh garrote
brave tangle
yea I didn't see that logic for garrote
proven sparrow
It doesnt do it by default and i found it to not be a gain to do it
brave tangle
See that doesn't add up though, if you don't refresh
it's probably between 30% to 45% of the total exsang damage
so not maximizing that, and yet using Exsang on cd to me is problematic
Its also seemingly more efficient Exsang damage if that makes sense. Since its only 1 GCD and refreshing rupture could require up to 3
if you have 0 cps
proven sparrow
Yes it would be more damage per exsang to refresh before. To do that you would need to either a. Clip more of pandemic time and lose damage from there or b. delay exsang. Neither of which showed a gain in simc
Feel free to edit the apl to try to find a gain and post it here, now we're mostly just clogging up this channel with #assassination stuff
brave tangle
Ok so the APL does account for it when subterfuge is active:
garrote,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&talent.exsanguinate.enabled&cooldown.exsanguinate.remains<1&prev_gcd.1.rupture&dot.rupture.remains>5+4*cp_max_spend
I'll try to find some gains here
remote dune
first one for 2 targets 5 minutes it garrotes right after Exsg
and second one is 6 targets 40 seconds
remote dune
any thoughts on that?
muted raven
@split sorrel Any thoughts on the above? Sorry to ping you but not sure how else to note it
maiden cargo
read pins, don't crop columns, maybe link the sim itself, etc
remote dune
I could
but all you do is go to multiple target
then put on subterfuge/exsg
and it does it everytime
delicate flax
Its probably the conditions on the garrote APL line relative to !exsanguinated that arent added to the dot cycle garrote APL line.
I dont have ccess to the APL right now, but that's what comes to my mind
plucky mural
is there any expectation for the Herodamage to be added to base SIMC profiles, so raidbots will add it to the Topgear tools? I dont have the patience to build advanced gear profiles to simulate topgear.
split sorrel
It's already in, not just available on Raidbots GUI.
Can be used in "Advanced" tab tho
golden warren
concerne about changes on sim, just lose good amount of dps on ST fight and is showing some strange things like, vanish>g>g>g
this r the samples : 3days ago : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/paANZvw65UfKJp3Q76cLJH
today : https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6PGbkBdx65mfxjK82o5FiJ
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/505233486710308875/unknown.png
boreal patrol
whoopsie, yes that was an ovesight, pushed a fix
dreamy kindle
Has the fix already gone in? was wondering why my sim dps went down, looking at it now the simc opener looks strange.
plain coral
Hello, nothing big here but I noticed that condition in the subtely APL about Shadowmeld energy.deficit>=10
just forget about it still a mystery for me
tawny fulcrum
@dreamy kindle fix is on SimC, should be on Raidbots nightly in a couple of hours
dreamy kindle
Cool, thank you for the update.
regal agate
@plain coral you have a point, removing it makes no diffrence
median fox
Hi, I'm sorry to bother in this channel but I asked this question several times in my spec channel, never got an answer, so here I go
How can the sim tell me that my laser matrix et double SS trait is my best shot, when in hero damage 2*archive is sky high. I'm totally confused. And since I can't test it on dummy the buff it brings... I come asking for you help to enlighten me
glass apex
The answer to your question is relatively simple. You play with talents who make the SS Trait the strongest trait you have. Herodamage uses Toxic Blade and Master Assassin by default. You can change this at the top of the page.
@median fox
If you have more Questions than feel free to pm me. This Channel is not the right place for this discussion 😃
median fox
Ok sorry for the disturbance
plain coral
@regal agate for some reason, removing it have some negativ impact when fight is short (<180sec), I still miss the reason why
regal agate
interessting
glass apex
Any Updates on the cast 3x Garrote Bug in the APL ?
boreal patrol
should be fixed on raidbots nightly
glass apex
Ok thanks @boreal patrol
delicate flax
Hello !
I noticed today that Blindside is usable on target under 35%, not under 30% as the tooltip says.
Do you think it's worth simming again profiles with this ? (i checked, the ability on simcraft is usable under 30% only)
boreal patrol
😮
proven sparrow
Ye it was discussed a few days ago in #assassination Echtroi provided a video proof for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LCkI_Fe0d0&feature=youtu.be
boreal patrol
thanks for the report
proven sparrow
Unsure wether the tooltip is incorrect or its bugged, but iirc blindside is barrely worth using during execute anyway, especially with double doses. So i dont think it really matters much atm
boreal patrol
this was explicitly changed in a hotfix iirc, so this is definitely looking like a bug
delicate flax
Yeah, i'm still amazed on how many mistakes like 'oops, i forgot to apply that change' happens on blizz's side
golden warren
is vanish>rupt>g>g>vend>exsg really sims better then vend>vanish>g>g>rupt>exg mid fight? html reports do the first one, but we r losing 1 or 2 ticks of empowered garrote inside vendetta 🤔
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/i4Fn2z8MkscAEfERqE9NV7
ik the is some kind expeculation, idk how to force this change, but i think is worth to take a look, if someone could try it
boreal patrol
keep in mind that this is 4 GCDs of abilities that all deal no initial damage on cast
unless you have 100% haste or more, using vendetta 1s after garrote will still have all garrote ticks during vendetta, you only lose some rup ticks during it
and if you use vendetta before vanish you have said 4 GCDs that all deal no cast damage but set up DoTs
besides, since you use garrote twice to get the maximum duration it is longer than 20s, so you should have more ticks during vendetta if you use vendetta after garrote
vagrant quail
is anyone here from raidbots ?
plucky mural
there is a raidbots server
frozen egret
I made a post regarding a deadshot bug in the outlaw channel. The bug is not very impactful for most people. It only presents itself when your weapons are a different item level, but what is happening is that the deadshot buff is causing pistol shot to do more damage if you put your higher item level weapon in the off hand. (Without deadshot, pistol shot does more damage with your higher item level weapon in the main hand). I was curious if Simulationcraft is modeling this behavior. I am going to go out on a limb though, and guess that it is unintentional. As such I have put a bug report thread on the official forums.
proper salmon
Do you have an logs/screenshots/etc that show this behavior?
frozen egret
I am about to put them up.
Just that the screenshots folder has hundreds of files, so finding the right ones takes a few 😃
This is the first screenshot, showing base pistol shot damage with 370mh / 345oh. Tooltip and combat log chat window included.
Here is the second. Also base Pistol shot, with 345mh / 370 oh. These two screenshots are to establish baseline pistol shot behavior.
This is deadshot-buffed Pistol shot with 370mh / 345 oh. Tooltip isn't present, but it is consistent with the same roughly 30% damage reduction from armor.
This is deadshot-buffed pistol shot with the 370 in the offhand this time
More than anything, I suppose I'm curious on what impact this would have on Deadshot's value if your weapons aren't equal item level. If you have had bad luck with getting a second weapon drop, it may devalue it.
I'd wager not enough to change trait rankings, though.
willow knoll
i threw something together real quickly in paint
no enchants on either weapon, only deadshot as the traits on 385, 385 and a 370 piece, no secondary traits
no trinkets either
proven sparrow
Poking around the APL i found that if you're using nightstalker+exsang combo it doesnt line up vendetta with exsang at 2.25 as SS+subterfuge setup does. Since it was a gain for SS to do it i tried with this as well and it seems to be a gain (albeit smaller than i expected). I did some stupid hardcoding to make them line up so i dont think you want to see my edits
long crown
Hi all, sorry for some offtop question if it is
is there string in simcraft to force crit do 150% damage instead of 200%? Or the way put "player" as target?
golden briar
Even if there is, simming is useless for pvp
long crown
I don't wanna sim it to get accurate numbers, but it will help giving food for thought about stat utillity,
golden briar
Well it can certainly help if you know how to interpret the sims i guess
boreal patrol
thanks for the reports, guys, will check it out in more detail soon
@long crown setting crit isn't enough since pvp has seperate tuning. afaik we have pvp=1 to account for that behavior. as was said, keep in mind though that pvp sims may not at all be optimal and are not a focus of our research
boreal patrol
@proven sparrow pushed a little APL change based on your suggestion. thanks
small lagoon
Does anyone else feel that ST ss is undervalued and dagger in the back overvalued?
on sim
regal agate
dagger in the back is slightly overvalued as it assumes you stand behind the target, what you might not in reality
golden briar
Ss is just fine, sims higher than dd for me
boreal patrol
that can happen
uncut hemlock
Has Sharpened Blades been stealth un-nerfed or is this just on Tourney realms? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSL1fgEodPU
knotty oriole
Tourney Realms are running an old version of the game prior to the hotfix
Which is pretty strange, but it is what it is
golden briar
In pvp?
knotty oriole
Sharpened Blades (Azerite Trait) effectiveness reduced by 65% when when engaged in combat with enemy players.
Is the hotfix that doesn't really appear to be happening on those realms
bitter cove
Reposted from outlaw channel. I've been playing outlaw for a while now and was wondering if theres a table showing the value of each buff with x traits. I know the rotation i just want to know if whoever coined it uploaded values somewhere. Prob pointless question but if anyone has seen something like that pls let me know id like to have a look at it
boreal patrol
Roll the bones buffs? I think Koji may still have some comparisons stored somewhere. In general, you can quite easily sim it yourself though if you disable rerolling in the APL and enforce buffs with fixed_rtb. As an example fixed_rtb=1 will always give you Broadside. Buffs are numbered 1-6 in alphabetical order.You can also do combinations like fixed_rtb=12.
knotty oriole
Note: you also need to make some APL tweaks to not reroll.
gaunt gale
Raidbots has plans to add it by 8.1, possibly earlier assuming other classes APL development for it goes ahead.
boreal patrol
it's already in simc as "DungeonSlice" (can be enabled in advanced simply by using fight_style=DungeonSlice) but Raidbots has not added it to the fightstyle selection yet because some classes only have very experimental support
proven sparrow
Is there a reason as to why both sub and outlaw azerite powers combos on herodamage doesnt sim with the highest simming combination? Does it always sim with the highest base profile without any traits or something like that?
boreal patrol
what exactly are you referring to?
proven sparrow
When looking at Azerite powers for sub (t22)
It says the talents are wm/sf/deeper/enveloping/mos
boreal patrol
yes, it uses what the default profile uses
proven sparrow
And that is the seventh highest simming when looking at combinations
Yeah that was my question, i assume thats what sims the highest without traits?
boreal patrol
well no, it's the best build with uldir gear and traits (i.e. conforming to the T22 simc rules)
since there are several viable builds depending on your gear it's hard to point to a "best" one
however, azerite charts vary talents if powers are a higher increase for it
(also, you were likely looking at the 3 stack combinations. if you go to "default" you will see talent combinations for the uldir trait combination it uses)
hybrid oxide
So has anyone else mention this before. So with 2 ss traits as sin my stealth garrote ticks for about 6k. A shadowmelded garrote ticks for about 3k and still award 3combos and unpowered of less at 1.5 is there a reason shadow meld garrote makes it hit at half. Also how come the sims don't account for a shadow meld garrote while it does for ambush
golden briar
shadowmeld garrote doesn't get buffed by subterfuge but does get buffed by SS
but i'm not 100% sure whether it's in the sims or not
boreal patrol
didn't have any testing data myself when implementing it but SS should support shadowmeld. shadowmeld is just not in the APL atm, i think
will look into adding it sometime soon
boreal patrol
posting here since it's not a big update, but i have tried to gather some info on shadowmeld and it looks like you only benefit from the 2 additional CP with shrouded suffocation, but not from the additional damage. i added it to simc accordingly for an increase of about 0.3% or so. for dungeon trash, shadowmeld is dropping you out of combat, allowing you to restealth fully for all bonuses. i might add some hack to account for that too (at least for HeroDungeon) but not immediately.
opaque thorn
I noticed when using the hero dungeon fight style that my subtlety rogue never casts backstab, even when its supposed to be fighting the boss at the beginning. My guess is that its using the invulnerable dummy target to still gain combo points and stacks of shuriken combo. What I did was go to raidbots, start a stat weight sim, switch it to advanced, and then change the fightstyle from patchwerk to DungeonSlice. Here is an image of the sample sequence table, showing near the beginning of the fight after shadow dance charges run out and it should switch to using backstab as a builder, but is instead using shuriken storm: https://i.imgur.com/pCfobsj.png
And here is the full sim report: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ne7AhyTuzdu8vKTPEp6V26/simc
I'd guess that is why perforate's value is essentially a margin of error in this chart as well: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/hd-t22-subtlety
boreal patrol
yes, unfortunately, sim still picks up the dummy target when counting targets. this is an issue that is still being discussed and tinkered on. sims currently do not support fights without main enemies or complete downtimes and the core requires some rewrites in order to do it properly. until then it's mostly hacking together stuff to try to emulate a dungeon.
golden briar
@boreal patrol are you sure about the meld-garrote thing? i'm fairly certain when i tested that i got the SS bonus damage but not the subterfuge bonus
boreal patrol
i could not find confirmation of that. if you have a log that shows it, i'd appreciate it
golden briar
haven't tested recently so it might have been changed...
all of my logs use shadowmeld, search for blambalam-kilrogg and just pick any of them and check 😃 or i can do it myself when i'm free
golden briar
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AV31qJwFDBfP2yLn#fight=19&type=damage-done&source=16&view=events&eventstart=2213671
my normal garrote ticked for ~1800 on fetid around the 1 minute mark, and i cast a meld-garrote on the big add around 1min8sec and it ticks for 3866
@boreal patrol
and at ~1:03 i cast a non-meld garrote on the mutated mass (so i can have a full pandemic meld-garrote after) and it ticked for 2k
boreal patrol
thanks, yeah. interesting. i managed to make a char copy on PTR that i can change to nelf so i'm actually able to collect data myself (for 8.1) now
hope i can close this case out then
golden briar
tbh i wanna see the nelf vs troll sims for exsg with this, only reason why i'm bothering 😄
golden briar
logs don't lie 😄
boreal patrol
quick sim with exsg default profiles https://i.imgur.com/LWQAt2F.png
pr has 3x SS, t22 has only 1
boreal patrol
pushed yes, raidbots nightly not yet. you will have to wait until autobuild coming night
also changed hero damage script to sim both night and day options. that should also appear in the results soon
golden briar
you're doing god's work, my friend
plucky mural
is that because it is unpaid?
knotty oriole
Unpaid work is the best 👌
hybrid oxide
Thx for doing the sims for the shadowmeld garrote stuff
granite zephyr
anyone know the positioning for jade statue to step to for mythic ghuun
raw knoll
wrong channel @granite zephyr #wow-general
plain coral
since i'm nelf does this mean I should always play subterfuge/exsang ? Tested on dummy non-meld garrote = 1500, meld garrote = 3000, subterfuge garrote = 6000
sinful apex
the sims are updated so you can just sim yourself
it'll take the meld-garrote into account
golden briar
If you have ss/gcb, as nelf, you should almost 100% play exsg
plain coral
thx
waxen drum
not sure if the correct place to ask this but ill ask here since people are probably the most knowledgable herer
do sims take into account your array changing based on procs? or does it just assume that it stays static the whole fight based on your unchanged stats?
boreal patrol
RA changes as it does ingame
waxen drum
okay thanks
plain coral
Hello I tried to do some ptr simulation and I wasn't able to test TFD. Simcraft tell me PTR data aren't supported yet and raidbot don't take TFD in consideration.
I proceed this way : entered simc add-on input and put "ptr=1" at the begining of the script. Maybe I do something wrong ?
regal agate
@plain coral, likely an input issue on your side. do it as flowing:
plain coral
I did, I had the PTR simulation yellow things but TFD wasn't taking in account. Imma try again
Do I need to import simc string from the PTR ? Or I can take my simc string from live ?
See it's a PTR simulation but TFD is still the same as 8.0
(no 2cp generated on SD, still the double crit buff)
regal agate
yes, seems like its still using the old implementation
boreal patrol
PTR is supported and no, you have to put ptr=1 before the actor. you may see an error because of sharpened blades in the APL which was removed on PTR
this is a case of APL erroring out that i believe should not happen and prolly be changed in core
regal agate
oh :/ my bad then
boreal patrol
until the default APL is updated, you can either put in a custom apl with that line removed or wait for a fix
plain coral
thx
boreal patrol
pushed a fix, with next raidbots nightly default APL should work in ptr mode
plain coral
Is there a way to add "fake" azerite trait in a simulation ? I try to run some sim with 6 azerite trait insteed of 3
boreal patrol
you can list any amount of azerite powers using azerite_override, why would you want 6 though?
e.g. for three SS (and disabling powers on gear)
azerite_override=shrouded_suffocation:390/shrouded_suffocation:390/shrouded_suffocation:390```both name or power id work
plain coral
don't we have 6 trait now with 8.1 ? since there are 2 ring ?
proven sparrow
Its not in 8.1, its with the raid (coming sometime in january). You cant get 6 of the same trait either, but 3x + 3x
But yes
plain coral
yes sure but I wanted to sim different combination of 6 traits
boreal patrol
Yes, you can only have 3+3, and not before the new raid in January
In any case, you can use the override pattern above to do this.
prime onyx
Anyone got to Sim the new poisoned wire?
boreal patrol
new poisoned wire? you mean Nothing personal that will replace it with 8.1?
prime onyx
Yes
boreal patrol
you can sim it by setting ptr=1. power id is the same so you can, for example, put on PW and use a /simc export
prime onyx
Oh ty didn't know that
proven sparrow
Is there a way to allow you to use kidney shot in simc? So that it proccs internal bleeding? Im curious on the DPE of it cause it seems to do quite a bit of damage (ontop of giving back ludacrous amounts of energy)
Against adds that is, i know it cant be used against bosses
plucky mural
@proven sparrow would be funny if the DPE of kidney bleed were over env in stunnable st. lmk what you find.
muted raven
It doesnt give energy anymore unfortunately, interesting to think about though.
knotty oriole
It is pretty good damage, although in raids for stunnable targets Prey on the Weak is probably better damage contribution
For dungeons it's fairly solid though
runic glade
Is there a way to use the dungeon script and topgear together rather than manually changing every piece of gear in the advanced tab?
boreal patrol
you can add kidney_shot to the apl and check. also internal bleeding does work with VW and give energy afaik
muted raven
My mistake, it specifies rupture and garrote but adds it if you spec Internal. Sorry
boreal patrol
yup, tooltip is dynamic, IB is added when you talent into it
you can check the tooltip on wowhead or other DB sites to see the full one
proven sparrow
I've been trying now but i literally cant get the apl to cast kidney shot unless i disable the envenom line. Does the direct damage section always want to start with envenom?
Surely putting something conditionless such as actions.direct=kidney_shot,if=combo_points>=4 above the envenom line should make it cast kidney before it actually gets to envenom?
Besides that, if i removed envenom. It seems like internal bleeding does significantly less damage in simc than ingame. It typically does between 20-30k per cast depending on buffs in raids, whereas simc has it around 7k.
http://piclair.com/data/i0i8v.jpg
Note how the average crit is 1.1k in simc whereas this is from a G'huun kill some days ago
http://piclair.com/data/49hbk.jpg
boreal patrol
i'd guess you did not change envenom line to be +=/
so you restart the sublist and KS is gone
proven sparrow
Ah so that's what the plus is for, I see
So even with the fairly undervalued IB its still a pretty sizeable gain to use it since it gives so much energy. Seems to be on average +2.8 eps extra per second
http://piclair.com/data/f8rf0.jpg
boreal patrol
pushing a fix momentarily, IB calculation is broken and not correctly scaling with CP
thanks for the report
ok, dmg will be correct in next nightly on raidbots too
plucky mural
ooo. that would probably land in garrote rupture garrote mut kidney vendetta exang
boreal patrol
eh, that sounds pretty wasted
dunno why you want to have a fix 6s bleed that you can only use every 20s exsanguinated by all means
using it instead of env when ready is fine (ST sim assuming the target is stunnable https://i.imgur.com/7EY32EE.png)
plucky mural
7.2% is massive gain. good to know. hammer on cd. when stunnable. @proven sparrow good call.
regal agate
just keep in mind that there is also pray of the weak that could potentially have higher impact (but cant be simmed good)
boreal patrol
yes, i was thinking about adding a hack to have it use KS for IB on trash in the dungeon style but i'm not very comfortable with that thought since all it contributes is a skewed perception via sim dps since prey is hard to sim. also, while IW provides no DPS, it is still a helpful talent for some situations.
IB implementation is there for experimentation ofc, and conclusion is ofc that it can be a very good personal dps gain on stunnable targets
muted raven
Is there not a way to assume 2 other dps are doing similar damage in the same window as the rogue for prey the weak?
boreal patrol
that's easily becoming a thing of assumptions on top of assumptions though, and prey usage may vary heavily based on dungeon, affixes, dds in group, playstyle and how your co-DDs use their cooldowns
a lot of variables
muted raven
True yeah
plucky mural
I like prey, but the bonus effect would have to exceed about 30k dmg to be on par with kidney bleed.
west prism
It's really difficult to sim prey, in a m+ situation you would have to assume everyone is hitting your target, that everyone is using abilities worth mentioning and that there's no movement at the same time. Internal bleeding is just fire and forget, does its damage. Less variables and will always yield a good result.
halcyon falcon
Anyone thought about bosspecific fightscripts like beastlord back in brf? Thought about mythrax beeing like raid_events+="/invulnerable,first=135,cooldown=204,duration=76" raid_events+="/adds,name=XalzaikP1,count=1,first=15,cooldown=61,duration=22,last=76" raid_events+="/adds,name=XalzaikP2,count=1,first=218,cooldown=61,duration=22,last=279" raid_events+="/adds,name=XalzaikP3,count=1,first=422,cooldown=61,duration=22,last=483" raid_events+="/adds,name=Destroyer,count=1,first=135,cooldown=204,duration=60,last=339" raid_events+="/adds,name=VisionsI1,count=5,first=155,cooldown=30,duration=13,last=185" raid_events+="/adds,name=VisionsI2,count=5,first=359,cooldown=30,duration=13,last=389"
golden briar
Problem with simming mythrax is that the add goes away but dots keep ticking on it, not sure how it would be replicated in the sims
halcyon falcon
Mathrax was just an example, and this was just written down quickly with the timings of our raid, i was just asking if it would be an option for simc in the future.
wispy badger
well as you said, timings for YOUR raid
% hp based transitions are nothing u can use in simc really, unless u wanna change the apl everytime
if it was an actual timer, like 1:30 until first transition, might rather be an option
strong gorge
There was a group working on boss scripts, however that's pretty much dead by now
plucky mural
@halcyon falcon AMR has attempted to do specific boss timings. I believe they are fixed fight duration with a single run, but i'm a bit rusty with AMR these days. GL.
regal agate
single run sounds like sth not very meaningfull
pure kraken
Has the been any 8.1 testing yet? Or is the any info on how things are shaping up?
regal agate
you can sim the new traits using ptr=1 (put it on top of your profile in advanced)
pure kraken
Thank you @regal agate
boreal patrol
current state of 8.1 PTR is implemented and supported in simc yeah. guides and information sources will be updated over the course of the next week(s)
i still somewhat expect last minute changes so i'm wary about too early conclusions
pure kraken
That's fair reasoning, I'm assuming the best way to compare is zero array stacks on current nightly vs ptr?
raw knoll
If you’re raiding currently sim with array.
pure kraken
I am raiding currently, but I'm taking when comparing ptr sim vs current sim it's a massive loss vs having array, so wouldn't the comparison sim be more relevant without array stacks?
tough hornet
The new raid won't drop immediately with 8.1 so we will have array stacks for a while yey
pure kraken
That may be, but at least if I'm looking at the sims correctly it's not counting array with the ptr=1 sim
boreal patrol
you have to specify it manually in advanced
and put it before the actor at the top of the input
vagrant quail
do we have a herodamage ptr ?
im curious of how good this will be:
if should keep some gear that will have this traint when 8.1 hit
cunning pebble
@vagrant quail I believe you can sim that right now, Nothing Personal replaces Iron Wire, so adding 'ptr=1' to your sim with Iron Wire traits active will cause the sim to use the new Nothing Personal trait in its place
vagrant quail
hum good to know it will give a try
but i was looking for a traitn ranking kile herodamge for ptr
boreal patrol
nothing released yet for the reasons stated above
NP is currently looking like a midfield trait, but it is also still not correctly scaling with spec aura and mastery
pure kraken
@boreal patrol I did that in advanced. If I sim current gear on nightly with array I'm over 18k dps sim current gear in advanced with ptr=1 and its 16k so I'm assuming I shouldn't compare using array that's what I've been saying
raw knoll
What traits? My subt saw a gain, outlaw a wash and assn dropped by 1800.
boreal patrol
yes, did you sim live gear in non-advanced modes? there RA setting is available and considered
in advanced (as you used for PTR) you have to specify bfa.reorigination_array_stacks manually
pure kraken
@raw knoll archive bits and inevitability are my current traits for st
@boreal patrol yeah I get what you're saying now, you can have it add the stacks in advanced. Figured running the sims both without stacks would give the same general idea comparison wise.
boreal patrol
yup, was just meaning to point out that it does not account for RA in advanced, it's not a ptr issue
and yeah, BitS get hit quite a bit
raw knoll
375 tfd > 385 bits by quite a bit
pure kraken
I guess I have a 385 perforate trait I could replace the bits with if that's worth
boreal patrol
Perforate or even better TFD are good alternatives for it, yeah
pure kraken
Idk I'll sim it, only have tfd for head and chest dont have one for shoulder which is where my bits is at
modest kiln
was messing with aoe apl, got something like https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5WqkiTAtvefh96PyXJXngD, should be definitely a dps positive on 5+ targets, but it seems a bit illogical for me, maybe i am wrong, need someone's assistance
golden briar
@boreal patrol how does the apl use meld-garrote btw? on CD or attempts to have it full pandemic?
boreal patrol
basically use after vanish+subt garrote ran off
boreal patrol
well.. vanish has a 2min cd, shadowmeld has too
plucky mural
@modest kiln there are no 5 minute aoe conditions like that.
I only looked at the top sample sequence, But it you want to compare trash rotations, try 40s or 1min max.
knotty oriole
Looking at 40s or 1m sims is generally not a great idea though because of cooldowns.
But if all you care about is the sample sequence I guess it’s fine
plucky mural
Point being, any rotational comparisons of aoe at 5 min are extremely irrelevant. Due to the pct shift from SS garrote into other sources.
And yes The main value of the m+ slice sim is that it burns your CDs and lust on boss then proceeds to restealth into fresh aoe packs.
fast flame
Having an issue w/ Raidbots simming sub currently with the custom APL, just wanted to raise awareness in case it hasn't been noticed
"dreadlords deceit" is still in the APL and is causing sims to error out
boreal patrol
where did you get that apl from in the first place? TDC support has been removed a while ago
fast flame
Raidbots threw it at me when i went for a basic zul sim
Didn't change anything didnt mess around at all, just plugged in what i wanted to sim and it errored. Dunno why or how
boreal patrol
threw it?
boreal patrol
so you had it already in the custom box and forgot to remove it some time ago i assume
fast flame
I've never messed around with any APLs
boreal patrol
anyway, you can always get current APLs here https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/Rogue/wiki/Subtlety-APL-Research
fast flame
I just plug and let raidbots fill in the __. , so maybe it only became an issue with a recent update
boreal patrol
what ___
fast flame
The APL
i have never edited, filled, or even looked at the APL, as raidbots fills it in with it's default
boreal patrol
no, if you specify nothing simc uses defualt automatically
fast flame
yeah
boreal patrol
raidbots does not put APLs anywhere automatically
fast flame
Just throwing it out there just in case it actually is something, even though its probably some fuckup from some time ago
boreal patrol
unless you deliberately used a custom one to test something, simply empty that box and done
fast flame
Maybe i did, i just never recalled using a custom one. Sounds like it was just me being dumb, just wanted to throw it out there just in case
Gonna safely assume it's my end
** Yeah, it was my fault. Never remembered putting a custom APL in there but there was one
boreal patrol
pretty sure it's cache related. i think raidbots remembers when you insert a custom one (per spec i believe). it's easy to forget to remove it and not realize before an update breaks it
fast flame
Sorry for the bother lmao, i'm a mess
boreal patrol
8.1 will likely alert a bunch of people because of that next week^^
everyone who forgot to remove a custom apl will get errors
fast flame
I'll probably re-up custom apls after 8.1, probably smart
boreal patrol
nah, unless you deliberately have a reason to enter one (or are using that priority_rotation option for zul) you're perfectly fine just leaving that box empty
fast flame
Sweet, ty. This is the most i've gotten involved with simming aside from plug and play, so im pretty uninformed
stark flower
So im going to be raid testing with my guild tomorrow, anyone got some pointers on what azerite to get?
at the moment im looking to test x3 Nothing personal + 2x Double dose and a single Shroud
or should this be asked in spec specific ?
proper salmon
Probably in spec specific unless you find something actin oddly with the traits.
stark flower
aight
merry pike
3 dd 2ss 1 raid or 2dd 3ss 1 raid cleave
regal agate
apperently apl used multidotting on 6 targets(so keep that in mind if you run a sim with ptr=1).
below is a damage comparison for 8.1 zul (6 targets 4 min).
correcting the chart, it still seems somewhat reasonable to stack rogues, but not to the same extreme.
(keep in mind that other classes on the chart are probably lower due to terms of the strategie)
regal agate
for m+ the overall damage stays close to the same.
Storm does a noticable amount more damage and the "the first dance" trait can open up other talent choices in t30 if you have 2 or more traits.
reports:
8.0: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aw3qjLXMLozcxYRZg5zfkS/simc
8.1: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7SnSvjXdAzDfLw4rksqwth/simc
calm sandal
With the update to TFD and being able to run NS/ES. There might be a potential benefit to intentionally refreshing NB during ShD so it snapshots the 12% extra dps
could be worth looking into
possibly right at the beginning so it gets both the increased tick rate from the haste + the snapshot on NS
or just refresh at any point
I don't know enough about simming to test this unfortunately 
regal agate
the simulation does also apply nb during shd when playing with ES, its only strict to not use it that way if you play with dark iirc
remote granite
I'm fairly certain the tooltip for Night's Vengeance is incorrect, or bugged, or something to that effect
Not sure how that would affect the sims of that trait, but: "Nightblade increases the damage of your next eviscerate within 8 seconds by 355 per combo point" (at ilevel 375), however, when you use nightblade at any number of combo points, you gain the same amount of damage, and it is not equal to 355. https://i.imgur.com/jusvDd6.png eviscerate damage pre-night's vengeance
Eviscerate damage after a 6 combo point Nightblade: https://i.imgur.com/N4jEBGt.png
Eviscerate damage after a 1 combo point Nightblade: https://i.imgur.com/KDxQ1q8.png
(small differences in value due to my enchants, however it seems to be consistent)
torn dome
#1 Never trust tooltips
#2 Log this and report back
boreal patrol
NV tooltip shows an unmodified value so it is not going to be what you see in the actual damage values.
when it says +355 per cp in the tooltip that is what is added to the ability base damage, not the total
on a site note: let me mention again that the tooltip change of per cp scaling in 8.1 was just a tooltip change to reflect how it already worked. i am not aware of any actual changes to the power since launch
golden briar
Probably worth spending 1 min to test tho
boreal patrol
just checked, NV maths on tooltips works fine
golden briar
So it does increase with cp?
boreal patrol
sure, always did
proven sparrow
Thats his point though, it doesnt scale with CP spent anymore
If i use a 1 cp nb and then evis, and then use a 5cp nb the evis does the same
Ill post a log in a sec
Just gotta update uploader
boreal patrol
huh, no. per cp spent on evis
proven sparrow
Didnt it use to scale with NB cp as well?
boreal patrol
NB cp don't matter
proven sparrow
Im fairly sure
boreal patrol
no
shy swallow
So is Apothecary's Concoctions actually just as bad as sims are showing or is it not siming correctly? Havent really seen anything about it anywhere.
all sims I have done on it are showing a ridiculous decrease in DPS so not sure if its horrible or just not correct, figured I'd bring it up.
lofty kiln
NYI
shy swallow
NYI?
lofty kiln
not yet implemented
shy swallow
gotcha
quiet epoch
anyone ever seen this in Simulation craft?
Initializing: Actor 'Sixonethree': Item 'inactive' Slot 'head': Cannot parse option from ',id=159318,bonus_id=5445/1542/4786/5399,context=35,azerite_powers=196/30/548': Unexpected parameter 'context'.
boreal patrol
are you using a downloaded simc client? if so get an up-to-date nightly
raven dune
can some 1 link me the right apl for m+
i cant find which to copy
theres a million different links
golden briar
M+ sim is dungeonslice on raidbots
boreal patrol
default apl is fine, there is no special m+ apl
@quiet epoch from here? http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D
quiet epoch
@boreal patrol nah from the normal download page direcly i will try these right now
boreal patrol
right, last official release is still 8.0.1 from July
and incompatible with latest /simc addon output in your case
tough hornet
suggestion: current dungeonslice profile isnt super accurate for dungeons as it undervalues aoe traits and aoe pulls
4–6 mobs for 11–19 seconds
1–3 mobs for 26–34 seconds
4–6 mobs for 11–19seconds
1–3 mobs for 26–34 seconds
the aoe pulls should be longer or same duration than the 1-3 mob pulls as they usually arent lower hp mobs but just bigger packs
only some dungeons have like 10 mobs for 10s like shrine
calm sandal
Maybe a good addition to the above suggestion it would be good to be able to specify average pull size, sorta like how # of bosses is done for other sims
knotty oriole
DungeonSlice slightly overvalues boss time but not by all that much
Maybe 5-8%
Boss time in dungeons is somewhere in the range of 32% on average according to the last WCL analysis I've seen
DungeonSlice ends up being around 40%
So I wouldn't say it's not 'super accurate', it's not perfect but it's a pretty close approximation of a 'balanced' profile in lieu of specific Tyrannical vs. Fortified setups
I'd also pretty much ignore stuff like the 10 mob packs conceptually. They are so rare and unimportant in the grand scheme of M+ as a whole that optimizing around it makes little sense imo
tough hornet
yeah i just meant having the 4-6 mob durations be closer in time to the 1-3 mobs
usually they take the same time if not longer
very rarely is there a large aoe pull that lasts <30sec
twin fractal
can't find any source right now that specifies if weaponmaster is additive or multiplicative. anyone who knows off the top of their head?
unkempt sail
anyone that is in charge of the herodamage site currently online?
regal agate
weaponmaster is a proc not a damage amp.
it would be good to add some context to your question @unkempt sail.
If its to HD specific you can also go to https://discordapp.com/invite/tFR2uvK and ask in the support channel.
boreal patrol
@twin fractal I assume Outlaw Weaponmaster? The additional extra proc chance should be additive, yes.
twin fractal
Yup that one, thx
boreal patrol
same for Skull and Crossbones and Keep Your Wits
golden briar
skull and crossbones has literally 0 value with wits on big aoe 😛
ruby scaffold
Hello guys! It is written leech poison gives 10% leech, but it heals about 6% of damage dealt. What damage isnt counted into leech?
abstract viper
link logs @ruby scaffold