#tc-research

1 messages · Page 6 of 1

spiral light
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Even if you doubled the damage, it's terrible

merry cedar
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it doesn't out sim ascendancy or the silken lining for stats?

spiral light
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No, it basically loses to all competitive embellishments

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In every scenario

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Anyways, this isn't really the place for that discussion. Should take it to the spec channels instead.

merry cedar
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oh ok i thought this was for theory craft research i apologize

image.png
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thank you gamer o7

spiral light
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You're free to sim it youself by using Top Gear and/or Droptimizer

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And see for yourself.

merry cedar
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thank you 🖤

thorny fog
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yes stiletto and radiance and vivacy after nerfs just are kinda useless

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blizz kinda just forgot about them at this point

grand torrent
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I think I found a case with simc, not sure where or how to report it but basically when simmed stilleto doesn't count as an embellishment, meaning that it is simming 1.2%-1.3% more than my unembellished 636 craft. This might be due to me wearing a 610 PvP crafted writhing armor banding, but I couldn't figure out why.

TLDR: I have 610 cape with writhing, 2x636 daggers with main hand ascendance. Sim says siphoning stilleto is 1.3%~ better on my main hand provided I equip the ascendance dagger on my OH and keep the 610 cape with writhing which is impossible in game.
Sims attached:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bmuYPFPARAGt3jPyLUFYGR
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mZY73Yewyrek12CBV3eeHw

Raidbots
Droptimizer • Professions - Epic • Enchanted Gilded Harbinger Crest...
Raidbots
Droptimizer • Professions - Epic • Enchanted Gilded Harbinger Crest...
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sorry if this was already a known case but its probably important to redocument it hence it might lead to some people getting the wrong idea if they aren't careful enough

noble pendant
karmic hamlet
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they hotfixed out the max level/max ilevel on bubblng wax, so it may work again

regal agate
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thanks, did they change something else?

karmic hamlet
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nah that's all i saw but always possible for some scripted shenanigans

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it may have ilevel scaling now so prolly can check if it does more damage when you apply it to higher ilevel weapon

regal agate
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can check tomorrow, currently in raid but thanks for the heads up

rugged pumice
regal agate
cosmic widget
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Would bubble wax be bis main hand then?

regal agate
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should be close to regular whetstones, but needs more testing to see if it scales with weapon item level or not

cosmic widget
regal agate
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(it can critical strike, even if it didn't in this test)

thorny fog
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interesting

jolly wave
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what about applying wax on both weapons?

regal agate
jolly wave
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as random as always, i see

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before that wax wasnt scaling with ilvl

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need to see numbers on him before that

thorny fog
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for me with a 639 wep it hits for around 110k

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but i also have some vers

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will try and unequip all gear

regal agate
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i found out something interessting too

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i equipped both daggers at the same time

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and depending on which one you equipped first it would default to the specific damage value

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so e.g.
if i equip both and the 584 first all procs will do 81k
if i equip the 619 first all procs will do 90k
(item slot does not matter)

unkempt crescent
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Did a world tour and the average for me was ca 120k with 636 dagger

ruby agate
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Even though it "triggers" from poison applications, it still only actually does the initial damage to your auto-attack target, right?

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(sim-dpw-wise, it doesn't really matter with how the proc rates work, but it was just an observation I had that it felt like outlaw could spam PS at range and, like, bank (?) wax triggers once you got back into melee, but that was kinda feels-y)

regal agate
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so still procs from white hits

thorny fog
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procs on a 639 wep with around 16% vers less when knife procs

image.png
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grim batol so no dmg amps

livid lynx
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One pull on ovinax

image.png
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with 639

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another pull

image.png
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but it scales with aoe?

thorny fog
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it does as every thing can proc on aoe but splits dmg and gets some inc dmg

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up to 5 targets

untold ibex
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looked around didn't find anything, do yall know ways to sim with the cooldown reduction buff from xal'atath's bargain?

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seems very difficult to account for in a reasonable/useful way, but I'm curious nonetheless

thorny fog
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Not really easy to sim because at least as sub your cds are already dynamic and changing all the time with cdr same as outlaw i guess

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best bet would be assa if anyone wants to try

fierce minnow
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how do i sim wax

regal agate
light yacht
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How does the sim treat Harvester's Edict? Since you can either eat the orb yourself for mastery or let it hit the mob(s) and do damage to whatever it hits?

finite sparrow
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the option thewarwithin.harvesters_edict_intercept_chance is used to determine the chance of intercepting the orb, the default is 0.2 it seems

light yacht
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Do we have info on the TW version of Blood of the Old God?

Seeing a 7.6k agi proc from the base version sounds really good to my classic brain

finite sparrow
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it is implemented in simc, so you can add it to your bags and test via raidbots top gear

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does not look particularly notable at least for outlaw

ivory coral
proven sparrow
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Iron wire does not increase your dps, so yes taking any other talent would increase your sim dps

ivory coral
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Yes. That's why it shouldn't go down in DS. But it does.

noble pendant
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Some talent combo breaking logic probably

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MA kinda isn’t great so I don’t think it was looked at that much

deep beacon
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does anyone know if raidbots sims focusing lens and ascension embellishments properly? for some reason when I sim them they differ by over 10k damage

finite sparrow
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i dont have the impression they are implemented incorrectly

deep beacon
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weird I thought that those two embellishments were supposed to be really close in sims though?

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this is what I am getting when I sim them against eachother. The lower one is the focusing lens

image.png
noble pendant
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Can you link the sim instead of a screenshot

deep beacon
noble pendant
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Not seeing much wrong on first glance

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Seems okay

deep beacon
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ok ty! 🙂

finite sparrow
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you dont have a gem

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that procs lens

noble pendant
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Oh ICANT I completely glossed over that

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I just saw a gem and moved on lmao

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Yeah, lens works by proccing damage based on whatever gem is equipped, blasphemies don’t count as a color and therefore don’t proc it

deep beacon
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oh ok, so then how do I sim it with a gem that procs the lens?

finite sparrow
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add socket to neck or smth

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click the + on it

deep beacon
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which gems proc it?

finite sparrow
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any of the secondary gems

deep beacon
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ok ty!

finite sparrow
noble pendant
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That seems more reasonable

deep beacon
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ok ty for the help!!

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how do I add a socket to an item? I know I was able to buy an item in DF that did that but I don't see one for the neck piece in WW

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nevermind I found it

noble pendant
deep beacon
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ty!

jolly wave
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can you APL in a /cancelaura somehow?
i have an cursed idea

strong gorge
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actions+=/cancel_buff,name=buffname,if=xxxx

jolly wave
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so it would be name=stealth,if=<condition>?

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huge, thanks

strong gorge
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That said, I'm unsure how cancelling stealth is implemented when it comes to subterfuge etc.

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But you can just run with log and see if it behaves as ingame

jolly wave
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not gonna use it for stealth though, just my first example buff

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i simply dont dare to voice my idea out until tested xD

strong gorge
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Also some buffs are uncancelable. Also unsure how that's implemented in simc

jolly wave
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yes, im aware of that

thorny fog
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just in case you want to try you cant cancel supercharger or escalating blade

vast harness
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Something I noticed in DF ptrs

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If you do anything to break stealth you gain subt

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EXCEPT

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if you directly cancel the aura via macro or just clicking your stealth button again

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you don't gain it

raw knoll
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I thought it got changed to requiring an action in SL. Memory foggy though.

bright bane
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Any sims been done for outlaw supercharger rotation yet?

potent ferry
bright bane
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caps

bright bane
potent ferry
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Yeah, click the full html report. It has a lot of juicy details

bright bane
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Lots of complicated shit ayy

potent ferry
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To see what it does, you need to read the action priority list. If you haven't done that before it might be tricky. I plan on doing a write up on the proposed rotation changes on Monday or so

bright bane
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was actually looking into theorycrafting myself

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To understand the class more

potent ferry
bright bane
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If so which sub

potent ferry
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I don't have one no. I don't feel like it's needed for apl stuff. But probably for finding optimal gear profiles

bright bane
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yeah alr

potent ferry
bright bane
cinder storm
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is anyone already thinking about the assa 11.0.5 APL?

noble pendant
uncut canopy
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in the sin apl, it can happen where theres a sequence of dm->kb->vanish->shiv instead of holding shiv for the last 8s of kb (this is even without lightweight shiv) - is this behaving as expected?

noble pendant
# uncut canopy in the sin apl, it can happen where theres a sequence of dm->kb->vanish->shiv in...

again, like above, this would be better in #1065730164077645916, but yes. Technically shiv on the last 8 of kingsbane is very similar and typically better, but in some edge cases like here from stealth it does use shiv which is better due to the combo points from shrouded suffocation being very efficient and leading to extra envenoms. It's a micro-optimization that only shows up in some iterations and not all the time

uncut canopy
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didnt know if the subthread was for 11.0.5 only or not. thanks for the explanation!

bright bane
regal agate
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The threads are just to keep this channel readable and not overlap information between specs

twilit cliff
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are there any sims out for the rework ?

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couldn't find anything so i decided to ask

noble pendant
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Sims are pinned in #assassination and there’s been ongoing talk for sub/outlaw in their tc threads

regal agate
jolly wave
rugged pumice
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Tooltip always said 0

regal agate
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his point was not the tooltip bug, but the option to keep hero talents active when switching specs.

jolly wave
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it works

rugged pumice
jolly wave
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the lingering procced from shadow blades actually amps assa skills

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i never saw it there (or missed it) so i shared it

rugged pumice
regal agate
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yes its not a new bug, but its not bad to have it documented somewhere, and this channel is def. a good place to put such information.

rugged pumice
mossy belfry
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They will love that!

regal agate
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Just to drop this here too, list of special loot/trinkets from the event raid.
Simply copy/paste it below your /simc in top gear and it adds the items to the sim.
Select the options you want to sim and hit Find Top Gear.

################################
# BLACKROCK DEPTHS SPECIAL LOOT
################################
# finger1=naglering,id=231396,ilevel=626
# main_hand=barman_shanker,id=231492,ilevel=626
# main_hand=flamelashs_fiery_spike,id=231483,ilevel=626
# main_hand=bloodfist,id=231399,ilevel=626
# main_hand=molten_ironfoe,id=231398,ilevel=626
# main_hand=lord_generals_sword,id=231419,ilevel=626

################################
# Trinkets
################################
#trinket1=golem_gearbox,id=231471,ilevel=626
#trinket1=hand_of_justice,id=231417,ilevel=626
#trinket1=molten_furnace,id=231462,ilevel=626
#trinket1=heart_of_roccor,id=231456,ilevel=626```
lucid breach
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Don't imagine anything for sub but maybe for assa? 🤔

half portal
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Nope not the right channel but in reality it’s hero track gear

regal agate
lucid breach
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Cool cool thanks, just figured I could ask here since I saw it mentioned here and seems like it might be some kinda cook lol

flat granite
jolly wave
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nature/plague dmg dealt

vital thunder
jolly wave
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idk honestly

vital thunder
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like if it's outlaw bug levels of increase i don't see why people wouldn't do it

regal agate
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the outlaw bug is a outliner, and as such the impact is nowhere close to it

flat granite
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yeah but i mean how does it transfer even to assa?

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is it the same the weird critte reproduce steps?

regal agate
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you see how to re-produce it in the video.
If you look for a step by step tutorial, there is no reason we would do it for this bug.

flat granite
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i saw it, tested it and lingering just expires as usual i guess its fixed

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like yes it stays after respec but it's just gone after that so yeah i guess it's fine?

flat granite
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tested on dummies barely a dps difference in ST for a 30sec window, annoying bug but not game breaking thankfully

charred cradle
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Who would I need to talk to about the simc profile not seeming to recommend Scent of Blood up to max stacks at 5+ target counts? I seems to only want to put the 3 out from Indescriminate Carnage, and even if other targets are alive, doesnt seem to prioritize putting them out.

Scratch that, seems there was a typo in the simc profile I was using that broke the functionality

final obsidian
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But, if we pay attention in the logs, Sanguine does WAY more damage than the sim indicates

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Yeah, you're going to say that now, but it takes 3 energy, and reduces your damage from other abilities
But, here's the thing, it only does damage when you have an energy overcap, on the burst

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for 20 seconds
610k

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but on logs

image.png
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4m
x5 damage

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I think it's because of the mark of death
Because you can see the damage

image.png
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He's duplicating it
But he doesn't do that in the sim

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In my opinion, there is an error in the sim. One that doesn't duplicate this talent during the death marker

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And naturally, the selection of Sanguine Blades is much better

gusty ridge
# final obsidian

that is not all of the damage it does, I think you are probably confused because it shows up under every bleed (including deathmark ones) instead of at one place

final obsidian
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Oh that's a good point, in that case it does x2 damage

gusty ridge
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it appears in 4 different places, not just those 2

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under rupture, garrote, deathmark->rupture, deathmark->garrote

final obsidian
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Oh, you're right.

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In that case, I was wrong

spiral light
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We pull the numbers straight from the game, so anything like that wouldn't really be possible anyways unless it was a result of a bug.
But yeah, the energy loss is just a massive part of it which doesn't really reflect in the logs whatsoever.

thorny fog
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this can happen but we try to double check things now

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there have been some server side script nonsense last expansions

silver geyser
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I have been trying to understand simcraft and I am wondering if someone can help me understand what pmultiplier means here? (I did try to search simulationcraft documentation, but was unsuccessful).

core_dot->add_action( "rupture,if=combo_points>=variable.effective_spend_cp&(pmultiplier<=1)&refreshable&target.time_to_die-remains>(4+(talent.dashing_scoundrel*5)+(variable.regen_saturated*6))&(!buff.darkest_night.up|talent.caustic_spatter&!debuff.caustic_spatter.up)", "Maintain Rupture unless darkest night is up" );
noble pendant
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for rupture lines it was used for nightstalker during dragonflight and was kept in for the case of an effect coming back

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so pmultiplier<=1 is essentially just a check for "not empowered"

silver geyser
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That makes sense, thanks. I was confused why this was here for rupture

silver geyser
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Hello again! I am wondering if I am missing something. I was wondering how the rupture here triggers before the envenom in the opener:

  stealthed->add_action( "envenom,if=effective_combo_points>=variable.effective_spend_cp&buff.master_assassin_aura.up&variable.single_target", "Envenom during Master Assassin in single target" );
  stealthed->add_action( "rupture,target_if=effective_combo_points>=variable.effective_spend_cp&buff.indiscriminate_carnage.up&refreshable&(!variable.regen_saturated|!variable.scent_saturation|!dot.rupture.ticking)", "Rupture during Indiscriminate Carnage" );

then I realized in the raidbots sample that the apl has something slightly different:

envenom,if=effective_combo_points>=variable.effective_spend_cp&buff.master_assassin_aura.up&variable.single_target&(debuff.deathstalkers_mark.up|buff.cold_blood.up)

which still did not make sense to me. Then I realized that deathstalker's mark is not applied till 3s into the fight according to the screenshot from the sample ability log. Am I missing something here?

image.png
noble pendant
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Link the sim

silver geyser
noble pendant
silver geyser
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My apologies, missed that

noble pendant
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But yeh idk the debuff is applying delayed, the sequence is correct though

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I guess the envenom lines could use a rupture check

silver geyser
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What I don't understand is why envenom doesn't trigger here before rupture because in my mind it looks like it should

noble pendant
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Because the mark isn’t being applied

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Sim doesn’t think the mark is up so it gets skipped

silver geyser
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Ohh yes, duh. Thanks

loud owl
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Hi guys, seems that the "how to sim" link is not working anymore.
I want to try overriding rules change to test things out but i don't know exactly how to build the .simc
I found the actionList on github but i need to add things before no ?

noble pendant
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testing APL's is done in advanced in raidbots, you just add your original profile, with full APL ideally, then make copies and edit the block you're interested in. So in general it'll be:


copy="name"
the APL block you're editing (actions.stealthed for example), with your change```and you just sim that. Can also have multiple copies, but keep in mind copies inherit from the profile above them, so a chain of copies can get really messy if you don't start from a fresh APL block before making edits
sleek stirrup
#

Hello mates, do we have news on the uppdated racials on 11.0.7 ? Does the dominance of Dwarves / Tauren end now ?

regal agate
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you can use this file in advanced sim.
put ptr=1 on top.
means:yaml ptr=1 YOUR /SIMC copy paste the file

📎 race.txt
sleek stirrup
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Thanks

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seems that they nerfed entropic embrace in the end , sad -_-

proven sparrow
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Yesnt

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They made it 1 rppm instead of 60s icd

raw knoll
raw knoll
sleek stirrup
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Will wait for it to be stabilized and see then

sleek stirrup
#

Hey mates, do you know if adding startattack in a macro reset the swing timer ?

regal agate
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it does not, damaging attacks automatically start the auto attack

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so you don't need to add it in macros

sleek stirrup
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it help for auto targeting the closest target when yours current die , so it has been added to damanging attacks by default ?

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Ok, tested this out, it is now integrated to melee attacks only, so it is still usefull to add on Pistol Shot / BTE

sudden warren
#

If I add the following to the /simc text when running a Raidbots advanced simulation:

potion=disabled
food=disabled
flask=disabled
augmentation=disabled```
Does that mean the simulation will be run without using any consumables?
noble pendant
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Yes

sudden warren
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Is there a way to make raidbots run all profilesets with high precision?

noble pendant
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No

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If you want to have high precision on every profile you’d need to run copies instead of profilesets

sudden warren
#

Where to find all those enchant_id?FeelsWeird

noble pendant
#

easiest would be to just sim yourself through quick sim/top gear and take it from there

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you can also just use the the names instead

sudden warren
#

like "enchant_id=cursed_versatility" that way?

#

Slot 'finger1': Could not parse 'cursed_versatility' to unsigned: invalid input string.

not working

noble pendant
#

enchant=

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a name is not an id

sudden warren
#

ic

noble pendant
#

also would need a rank

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so probably cursed_versatility_3

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devotion_of_versatility_3 for the noncursed

sudden warren
#

so where can I found those enchant names? I tried searching the simc repo but didn't find them.

noble pendant
#

they're just the names of the enchants in game

sudden warren
#

found them

image.png
noble pendant
#

yeh that works too I guess

regal agate
#

## TWW Race simualtions:
Copy/Paste string to sim Races.
How to use:

📎 race.txt
#

##__ 11.0.7 Systems and Simulations__
11.0.7 will add a Ring and some Racial updates the nightly version of simc supports the changes and allows you to sim options using ptr=1. The list below is just quick initial simulations, feel free to contact me if you find mistakes.

The overall power level of the Ring seems low, buffs to the item are expected. Take early simulations as a snapshot which is likely to change!

Cyrce's Circlet:
The Ring is a progression system, starting at 639 and can be upgraded over time to a maximum of 658. The quest providing upgrades lasts 6 weeks, which is the currently expected time to get the full upgrade, but there is the possibility for options to speed up the process. You can read more details here.

Simulations:
Single Target: sin Assassination +2.3% | otl Outlaw +2.6% | sub Subtlety +2.4%
Dungeon Slice: sin Assassination +2.4 | otl Outlaw +1.3% | sub Subtlety +2.4%

Note: The attached file can be copy/pasted below your /simc in advanced simulation, don't forget to also add ptr=1 on top.

#

Best Ring combinations - Single Target:

Assassination: Legendary / Stormbringer / Fathomdweller
Outlaw: Legendary / Thunderlord / Undersea
Subtlety: Legendary / Thunderlord / Fathomdweller

Best Ring combinations - Dungeon Slice:```ansi
Assassination: Legendary / Stormbringer / Fathomdweller
Outlaw: Legendary / Thunderlord / Undersea
Subtlety: Legendary / Stormbringer / Fathomdweller

__Race Update:__
Races seem to not change much relative to before but it is advised to run a simulation on it.
You can do so following the instructions from [this message]([#tc-research message](/guild/124169701881282560/channel/266712108861751296/))

**Simulations:**
Single Target: ![sin](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/433007826840059916.webp?size=128 "sin") [Assassination](<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ush2gkBbaaRUSj4uePByST>) | ![otl](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/433007796666236958.webp?size=128 "otl") [Outlaw](<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mTH4qfkm4iajWofzwbZHGj>) | ![sub](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/433007835606155265.webp?size=128 "sub") [Subtlety](<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aMPgqgTCFXXUedysebqjLj>) 
Dungeon Slice: ![sin](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/433007826840059916.webp?size=128 "sin") [Assassination](<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ts3CdtiMyCyVpkxiLBdHRD>) | ![otl](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/433007796666236958.webp?size=128 "otl") [Outlaw](<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dXLF7kAVGZ2MuP6aLuhQBg>) | ![sub](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/433007835606155265.webp?size=128 "sub") [Subtlety](<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/o2JAeiFQ7eLnhAcv8LJPfG>)
regal agate
#

Blizzard made the decision to increase the item level of the ring from 619 - 639 to now 639 - 658.
I restarted/updated the simulations above, if you want to sim your character can use this updated file.
Just copy/paste it below your /simc in advanced simulation.

Note: Simulations need to be done on > Raidbots - Mimiron < before the patch goes live.

📎 ring.txt
noble pendant
#

Has to be on mimiron atm for the record

#

Regular Raidbots will not be accurate until tomorrows rebuild

regal agate
#

i just noticed, thanks for the heads up. Added a Note above.

willow linden
#

Is there any omega nerd min max guides/spreadsheets out there? I’d like to see if there’s little things I could improve on and how to do so

rugged pumice
#

Since dust got removed

thorny fog
#

there are min maxes in sub but they are almost all in the apl others are gambles that we can explain but you need to know the consecuences

potent ferry
#

Outlaw minmaxes are in the advanced section of the #outlaw-faq

sudden warren
#

got an error.
it seems food=ginger_glazed_fillet is broken?

image.png
noble pendant
#

can you share your input

sudden warren
noble pendant
#

yeah that's just a typo

#

the food is called ginger-glazed fillet

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hyphens in simulationcraft are ignored

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so on line 336 of your input, it should be gingerglazed_fillet

sudden warren
#

ic

noble pendant
#

not ginger_glazed_fillet

sudden warren
#

but it worked before.

#

weird

noble pendant
sudden warren
#

actually that line came from your string
"profileset."Ginger Glazed Fillet (vers)"+=food=ginger_glazed_fillet"

noble pendant
#

I haven't made a string

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where did you find it

sudden warren
#

oops my bad

#

fuu's

noble pendant
#

oh from the pins

sudden warren
#

this one

noble pendant
#

@regal agate typo on the gingerglazed_fillet when you get a chance

sudden warren
#

well I swear that did work😆

regal agate
regal agate
#

## TWW Consumables (Food/Weapon oil/Flask/Combat potion):
Copy/Paste string to sim all consumables.
How to use:

📎 consumables.txt
regal agate
void nexus
#

siren ring good now?

thorny fog
#

Yes you can sim it with the strings given if you are ingame remember to equip it before doing that because it changes stats for the moment

gritty socket
#

Is there a way to force a different stack distribution on the ovinax egg trinket?

proud wadi
#

range is 0-30

#

I'd bookmark that page for future seasons because they'll add specific strings for seasonal items as they implement them

gritty socket
#

Perfect, thank you - much appreciated!

proud wadi
vapid lily
#

Has anything changed with our sin apl with this stupid ring? Asking for a friend

noble pendant
#

no, the rings have not changed any playstyles or apl, as the ring is just secondary stats or passive damage procs

vapid lily
#

That’s a Loud copy sir. Thank you

brisk fern
#

anyone has racesims for outlaw?

half karma
#

fuu sheet

regal agate
#

alternatively can just copy/paste this below your /simc in advanced sim and hit run.

📎 race.mk
brisk fern
#

ok thanks 🙂

sleek stirrup
#

The change in racials are already implemented live and in sims ?

#

ok thanks ^^

weary sky
#

Is already a little bit clear where rogue stands 11.1?

proven sparrow
weary sky
pastel raven
noble pendant
#

You’d have to initialize the list or else it’ll tack the new action to the end of the existing list

#

That’s why in the message you replied to I say the whole block

pastel raven
#

ok so do i have to copy the whole APL for my spec even in custom APL or do i have to only copy the block i am editing ?

noble pendant
#

copying the whole and then editing off that is safest

#

in advanced it's common practice to copy the whole thing and then tweak each block in the copies

#

I'm not entirely sure how top gear handles it, might just override the whole thing, so I would use the whole thing

pastel raven
#

yes ok thx 🙂

iron marsh
#

Where I can get the input to sim races for rogue. I used to have it but can't find it

regal agate
rugged pumice
#

What was the tiersetsim string again @regal agate ?

half karma
#

set_bonus=thewarwithin_season_2_2pc=1
set_bonus=thewarwithin_season_2_4pc=1

regal agate
#

^ zac was faster, change =1 to =0 if you want to disable the bonus

#

also keep in mind we just introduced the first pass on the tier set implementation, there might be bugs

rugged pumice
#

Tyvm

regal agate
#

The War Within Season 2 - gear strings for Top Gear:

Best is to use in Raidbots Top Gear to have all items available.
How to use: copy/paste the content of the text file below your /simc in top gear.

Note The crafted gear list is trimmed and does not include embellishments added to gear, use the + symbol to add embellishments to the crafted piece of your choice.
Note - Simulations The Gear probably does not work on Raidbots before patch release, use Mimiron Top Gear instead.
Info If there is something missing or a typo/mistake please reach out so I can fix it.

📎 TWW_Gear_-_S2.txt 📎 TWW_Crafted_Gear_-_S2.txt
regal agate
#

^ sry for the re-post, i had a item id missing

sweet slate
#

does anyone have a library of gem/enchant id's for TWW?

#

or are they on wowhead somewhere

regal agate
#

you can just use top gear to sim combinations, the id's should be on wowhead if you search for the specific item

#

can also right click(open in new tab) the gems in top gear to get to the site

sweet slate
#

Found them in the github

#

thanks though!

golden grove
#

how can i check how many supercharged comboPoints i have left in the apl?

regal agate
#

you can check for it, it is mapped as a buff (sry in raid, so can not go as much in detail)

image.png
golden grove
#

okey ty

regal agate
#

@noble field Please use the spec channels to ask for outlooks of a new patch, this chat is for numerical analysis and talks about the more technical elements of Rogue specs.

How strong something is in a future patch is also hard to predict, making predictions incredibly inconsistent and highly speculative.

flint gust
#

any links for upcoming builds for any of spec? or any suggestion what spec is going to prevail in first 2-3 weeks of raid?

regal agate
#

please use the spec channels for balance related questions, all 3 specs could be strong once the raid opens but we will need to wait for bugfixes and balance changes before making a statement.

brisk fern
#

do we have m+ sims for the new changes on the ptr?

#

for sub and assa 🙂

raw knoll
#

Read the text directly above your post.

brisk fern
#

yes 🙂 im not interesting in knowing if its op or not. just to look at sims

#

afterall this is is dedicated to, math, Models, Simulations (simC & AMR) researches.

thorny fog
#

Slice apls may need to be changed a bit at least for sub

#

as holding stacks and pack time to die are going to be important things to look for

#

even after nerfs tier set seems strong enough to play around in m+

regal agate
#

The War Within Season 2 - gear strings for Top Gear:

Best is to use in Raidbots Top Gear to have all items available.
How to use: copy/paste the content of the text file below your /simc in top gear.

Note The crafted gear list is trimmed and does not include embellishments added to gear, use the + symbol to add embellishments to the crafted piece of your choice.
Note - Simulations The Gear probably does not work on Raidbots before patch release, use Mimiron Top Gear instead.
Info If there is something missing or a typo/mistake please reach out so I can fix it.
update Added more season 2 Delve trinkets.

📎 TWW_Crafted_Gear_-_S2.txt 📎 TWW_Gear_-_S2.txt
regal agate
stray bolt
#

Is the current PTR apl updated in mimiron?

  1. stack not dropping
  2. blackpowder condition seems incorrect as it casts evis at the end of dance when more than 7 targets for SnD considering coup might not generate SnD in this implementation
thorny fog
#

apl has not been pushed totally at least for sub some things are not in yet

tardy forum
#

Hey everyone. I've been gone since Legion and just came back because of 11.1 - I'm curious, what is recommended as far as addons for things like simming, gear tracking/upgrades, etc these days? Thank you all in advance.

regal agate
#

the official simulationcraft addon is the best option, you can simulate now online on Raidbots. It is as simple as typing /simc in the game and pasting the string to the website. This channel is also for the more technical details so it's prefered if you ask beginner questions in the spec or general chat channels.

tardy forum
rugged pumice
#

@regal agate are the trinkets tunings already in raidbots?

regal agate
#

should be if they are already live.

rugged pumice
thorny fog
#

the remnant buff shows promise and ke zan nerf was expected likely those will drop tomorrow on latest

#

or didnt check commits if they are already up

regal agate
#

just make sure to use "latest" if you want the latest changes

rugged pumice
#

And Knife is now BiS overall at HC level

rich minnow
unreal kernel
#

Delve Trinket

regal agate
#

the delve trinket, ritual knife

image.png
#

gearing discussions fit better in the spec channels tho.

noble pendant
#

as fuu mentioned, this is a theorycrafting channel, not a channel to inquire about general gearing. Please refer to the spec channels and guides in regards to trinket viability

mental dawn
#

heya, not sure if this is the right place to ask but... have you guys simmed sending a storm/backstab regardless to stack danse macabre during a first dance SD, just wondering if the increased dance duration would make it worth

regal agate
#

Backstab in dance is not worth it anymore(we assumed), storm is only worth it on higher target counts and only once. If you have more specific things to test can make a more detailed post in #1065728795455266888 and either eleem, armin or i will likely be able to throw together a quick simulation to evaluate.

dry latch
regal agate
#

shadowstrike, if we talk about shadow dance like above. There is a trade off to not using shadowstrike especially on Trickster. We also looked a bit into the topic of backstab in shadow dance, and you can read it up in the thread but using backstab during shadow dance once (with premeditation) is a slight damage gain again, offering a way to optimize your dps slightly more when trying to min/max.

dry latch
#

Of course. Thanks!

severe atlas
#

It looks like there's a slight optimization for Junkmaestro's Mega Magnet with Deathstalker. Since it's plague damage, it benefits from Lingering Darkness on both specs. Probably not too relevant for Sub considering how much Trickster is ahead.

Not sure if there's a better way to implement, but I added:
actions.items+=/use_item,name=junkmaestros_mega_magnet,use_off_gcd=1,if=(buff.lingering_darkness.up)|fight_remains<=5

regal agate
#

thanks, will have a look later.

stray bolt
#

is it possible to see abilities damage proportion details in priority rotation report?

sweet slate
#

Like the pie chart in the html report?

stray bolt
#

not the pie chart, but the abilities table in fluffy pillow sub-category below

#

or a pie chart would be also useful

midnight moat
#

Why in the example from my quick sim is it using signet after flag ends
Its doing it at 22s into the pull which is weird. Its not correct I think

proven sparrow
#

Its an issue with pacemaker in sims. Swap the slots of them

#

But either way, signet is bad on sub

midnight moat
#

I dont have pacemaker

frigid vapor
#

pacemaker should be fixed in sims as of last week

#

gastank put in a fix for it

frigid vapor
midnight moat
thorny fog
#

post a log if possible and let people check

midnight moat
grave wharf
midnight moat
#

the other sim has it in the other slot

opal whale
#

actions.precombat+=/variable,name=trinket_sync_slot,value=2
obvs not an actual "fix" though lol

opal whale
#

Hunter's have this in their API that I just shamelessly yoinked and shoved instead of the two precombat variable lines sub has .

There variable is called "stronger_trinket_slot", I just replaced the name with "trinket_sync_slot" which seemed to work (although won't have stealth logic and shit so ymmv)

actions.precombat+=/variable,name=trinket_sync_slot,op=setif,value=1,value_else=2,condition=!trinket.2.is.house_of_cards&(trinket.1.is.house_of_cards|!trinket.2.has_cooldown|trinket.1.has_use_buff&(!trinket.2.has_use_buff|trinket.2.cooldown.duration<trinket.1.cooldown.duration|trinket.2.cast_time<trinket.1.cast_time|trinket.2.cast_time=trinket.1.cast_time&trinket.2.cooldown.duration=trinket.1.cooldown.duration)|!trinket.1.has_use_buff&(!trinket.2.has_use_buff&(trinket.2.cooldown.duration<trinket.1.cooldown.duration|trinket.2.cast_time<trinket.1.cast_time|trinket.2.cast_time=trinket.1.cast_time&trinket.2.cooldown.duration=trinket.1.cooldown.duration)))```
proven sparrow
#

The current one does pretty much the same thing. Just for some reason the signet trinket isnt considered a stat on-use.

#

Like skardyns and pvp trinket works

opal whale
#

could try has_use_buff?

#

seems to work with priory with just that replacement, so something probably up with not classifying it as the stat on use like you say. It could be due to the dynamic nature of the stat considering it could be any stat, depends when it checks the highest secondary maybe...

hardy falcon
#

@novel shoal

sick olive
#

Does anyone know why Eye of Kazan is on our BiS list even though House of cards/Thug line sim higher together? Is it a sim bait or does eye of kazan actually not out perfom the other trinket combo,

regal agate
#

eye of kazan is stronger on longer fights, so for raiding its typically the best passive trinket option.

sick olive
#

How come its lower on bloodmallet? Purely asking cause i believe the same, but got an officer in the guild arguing its not BiS

#

And is there any sims that show eye being ahead? I would guess it would sim higher if i just sim patchwork in an 7-8 min fight instead of 5 min

noble pendant
#

Yeah, 5 min is the standard and it doesn’t look great on that

proven sparrow
#

Also hotline is the opposite, its way better the shorter the fight is because of its interaction with BL

sick olive
#

Thanks for the answers guys, have a great day people

rugged pumice
sweet slate
#

if the fight is that long that's like 9 minutes of Kezan maxed out and doing damage

waxen condor
#

Is there something I can add to raidbots to sim all foods, flask and weapon things or I just do ir one by one in the sim options?

sweet slate
waxen condor
#

ty

visual dome
#

best dps is the highest dps from the best item right?

regal agate
#

i assume its an average

spiral light
#

Yes, Expected Value just refers to the average dps gain if you were to loot an item.

inland lodge
#

hey everyone, i think i mistakenly sent this in the wrong chat before #assassination message

could someone explain why the sim recommends those things?

echo silo
#

why this smic doesn't show the damage of sudden demise

noble pendant
noble pendant
# echo silo why this smic doesn't show the damage of sudden demise

Sudden demise damage is difficult to sim with how mobs are set up in most simulation types, and because of how varied its effect can be in an actual group. Because of that sims do not account for the actual execute damage and only simulate the talent based on the bonus bleed damage

echo silo
echo silo
noble pendant
#

I'm not sure what the question is

#

the execute damage from sudden demise cannot be simulated

bitter glen
#

Hey, curious if there's somewhere I could go to get my hands on the apl and any sorta readme etc on howt o get started messing around with changes

spiral light
#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki

This is the best resource we have next to someone showing you personally what to do and how.

GitHub
Home

Simulationcraft engine/GUI. Contribute to simulationcraft/simc development by creating an account on GitHub.

finite sparrow
bitter glen
finite sparrow
#

that's the whole wiki link, these sections pertain to APL logic

image.png
bitter glen
#

oh okay less initmidating now 😂

bitter glen
finite sparrow
#

yep

bitter glen
#

there's no segmenting I assume for aoe/st - wtvr type of change you want, you just take the entire default, change the specific pieces relevant to what you wanna test (prio dmg, aoe, st etc etc) and then run the appropriate sim

finite sparrow
#

in a comparison to the default, you can change a particular sublist instead of re-pasting the entire thing

#

perhaps hard to describe without showing an example of what you want to do

twin bridge
#

Can I get the simc string for sin rogue execute PI sim if anyone has on hand?

regal agate
#

should beyaml enemy=Fluffy_Pillow enemy_fixed_health_percentage=10
can use enemy_initial_health_percentage=15 alternatively.

noble pendant
#

Could also just sim execute patchwerk from the fight style dropdown

twin bridge
#

Thank you so much!

sacred shore
#

in case anyone needs it

7912 - Lesser Twilight Dev
7914 - Greater Twilight Dev
7915 - Lesser Echoing Void
7917 - Greater Echoing Void
7922 - Lesser Ifninite Stars
7924 - Greater Infinite Stars
7925 - Lesser Gushing Wound
7927 - Greater Gushing Wound
7928 - Lesser Twisted Appendage
7930 - Greater Twisted Apendage
7931 - Lesser Void Ritual
7933 - Greater Void Ritual

enchant ids for corruption effects in 11.1.5

regal agate
prisma olive
#

i think you lookin for this

civic mango
#

ty

gaunt parrot
sacred shore
#

they are enchant IDs

# 
profileset."Head_Twilight_Devastation_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7912
profileset."Head_Twilight_Devastation_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7914

profileset."Head_Gushing_Wound_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7925
profileset."Head_Gushing_Wound_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7927

profileset."Head_Void_Ritual_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7931
profileset."Head_Void_Ritual_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7933

profileset."Head_Echoing_Void_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7915
profileset."Head_Echoing_Void_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7917

profileset."Head_Infinite_Stars_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7922
profileset."Head_Infinite_Stars_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7924

profileset."Head_Twisted_Appendage_1"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7928
profileset."Head_Twisted_Appendage_2"+=head=${gear.head},gem_id=${gems.meta},enchant_id=7930
#

for example

gaunt parrot
#

I menat like, where do I see what they do?

#

Aren't these the data mined ones?

noble pendant
#

they're on the PTR

gaunt parrot
noble pendant
#

this is a rogue theorycrafting channel not raidbots tech support, would suggest asking on their discord instead

echo violet
#

Is there any "bug" related to Lock'n'stock trinket or overperformance in sims of Vexie and Mugzee trinket?
If I sim, raidbot tell me to use those 2 trinket but in reality (tryed on M Rik) Lock'n'stock (in ST mode) deal more dmg then the other 2 combined.
Im kinda confused on why in sims this thing is not happening

#

Other then that, in my tries on Rik, avg dmg of BtE is higher with Lock'n'stock even tho it has no main stats and just haste

finite sparrow
#

Locknstalk doesnt have agility

#

your avg damage on bte is not influenced by it

#

this 2nd log is trickster which buffs bte damage through flawless form

echo violet
#

But the difference of those trinket are abyssal

#

Do u think I can do 20+M more dmg splashed on other spell in the same time with double Agi trinket?

finite sparrow
#

so ye

echo violet
#

Ok this make sense

#

I was curious why I couldn't get my head around all that damage from that trinket and why very few people were using it

finite sparrow
#

with locknstalk you have like 22% haste which is perhaps overkill for this build

#

but i think if you can make the haste work with your gear then it shouldnt be too different than mugzee trinket

echo violet
#

w/o it im at 19%

#

And should be fine

#

Thanks anyway u has been really helpful!

visual dome
#

how can i sim only different enchantments? i choose different enchants but it says i need atleast 2 combinations

noble pendant
#

Did you tick the replace enchants box

reef marsh
#

What is priority_rotation in apl line:
actions.direct+=/fan_of_knives,if=variable.use_filler&!priority_rotation&variable.fok_target_count

#

Assuming perhaps if I am in prio I dont aoe?

noble pendant
#

it's a variable that can be toggled on which changes the APL logic to prioritize doing single target damage in aoe

#

it's not really used on assassination anymore

#

because deathstalker just automatically is prio damage

finite sparrow
#

fyi, if you sim corruptions dont use ptr=1

The recent tuning is not on ptr

tranquil cairn
#

Hello, I have a question about how Feint interracts with Avoidance and Versatility.
Does it work additively or multiplicatively ?
As in : 20% vers (10%reduced damage), feint 40%, avoidance 5%.
Additively
40+10+5 = 55% reduction

Multiplicatively
100 * 0.6 * 0,9 * 0,95 = 51,3% damage reduction
I hope it is the right place to ask

finite sparrow
tranquil cairn
#

Thank you very much for the answer !

pale oracle
#

i know this is very basic but wanted to let you guys in on my sims

Left is dungeonslice and Right is Raid

noble pendant
pale oracle
#

well i never contributed before but looks like circlet is out for raid unless im way behind

noble pendant
pale oracle
#

ohhh ok

#

so this is more of like whats to come, going to PTR and finding things?

noble pendant
#

This channel is designed to discuss implementation of simcraft models

#

Like APL findings

#

Or if a new item isn’t simming properly, etc

pale oracle
#

ahhh ok how can i contribute? is there a guide or anything? or are you all pretty stacked on help already lol

#

i just love how much goes into the rogue disc and if i can help i want to

sweet slate
#

probably wanna familiarize yourself with the APL for the spec(s) you're interested in

#

and check out the simc wiki in pins

#

then start plugging away in raidbots/simc and see what kind of kooky shit you can come up with

noble pendant
#

Yep, GitHub wiki is a good place to start, fiddling with the APL in advanced

#

Documentation on the simc wiki is pretty robust

sudden warren
#

does the default raidbots 5min patchwerk sim include a execute phase?

noble pendant
#

yes

#

health goes down linearly from 100 to 0

fallow wave
noble pendant
#

would be better served in #1065730164077645916, but the line is # Check upper bounds of energy to begin spending actions+=/variable,name=upper_limit_energy,value=energy.pct>=(80-10*talent.vicious_venoms.rank-30*talent.amplifying_poison) which is then called in actions+=/variable,name=not_pooling,value=variable.in_cooldowns|buff.darkest_night.up|variable.upper_limit_energy|fight_remains<=20

regal agate
#

The War Within Season 3 - gear strings for Top Gear:

Best is to use in Raidbots Top Gear to have all items available.
How to use: copy/paste the content of the text file below your /simc in top gear.

Note The crafted gear list is trimmed and does not include embellishments added to gear, use the + symbol to add embellishments to the crafted piece of your choice.
Note - Simulations The Gear probably does not work on Raidbots before patch release, use Mimiron Top Gear instead.
Info If there is something missing or a typo/mistake please reach out so I can fix it.

📎 TWW_Crafted_Gear_-_S3.txt 📎 TWW_Gear_-_S3.txt
regal agate
terse spade
#

I was trying to use what you just posted to do a sim and I keep getting this error, im definitely choosing daggers for a Sin spec sim, not sure what is happening

image.png
finite sparrow
terse spade
#

basically i just pasted my basic character info/talents, then added all of what was in those txt docs, picked all my items/enchants until it greened up and let me hit sim, and then it keeps getting hooked on this 'doesnt have the right weapon' thing

regal agate
#

you deleted your gear section it looks like

#

thats why

finite sparrow
#

it seems like your /simc has nothing equipped

terse spade
#

oh do i have to keep my original gear as well, gotcha ill try that thanks

regal agate
#

this block is missing basically, you did seemingly delete it when copy/pasting the file

image.png
finite sparrow
#

i'm surprised raidbots would let you continue

terse spade
#

yeah i didnt copy my entire simc from my current char, i jut did lines 4 thru 10 like you showed right there and not the head="..." part

#

looks like its working now thanks lol

stray bolt
#

for partial apl code provided, to get the full apl I just replace the lines to the same name in the base apl?

regal agate
#

The War Within Season 3 - gear strings for Top Gear:

Best is to use in Raidbots Top Gear to have all items available.
How to use: copy/paste the content of the text file below your /simc in top gear.

Note The crafted gear list is trimmed and does not include embellishments added to gear, use the + symbol to add embellishments to the crafted piece of your choice.
Note - Simulations The Gear probably does not work on Raidbots before patch release, use Mimiron Top Gear instead.
Info If there is something missing or a typo/mistake please reach out so I can fix it.
Update Added Legendary back variations, added the now required bonus id to endable Reshii Grace, the bonus to empower the legendary effect.

📎 TWW_Gear_-_S3.txt 📎 TWW_Crafted_Gear_-_S3.txt
shrewd cradle
#

Does anybody still have the APL for SBA rotation?

noble pendant
#

for what exactly?

shrewd cradle
#

Looking to sim a character using the SBA rotation.

#

There were some old sims in the pins but they have been removed.

noble pendant
#

I don't know what SBA is

finite sparrow
#

single button

noble pendant
#

oh jesus

shrewd cradle
#

Sorry single button assistant

noble pendant
shrewd cradle
#

Oh perfect. Thank you so much for finding that so fast!

noble pendant
#

note the section at the bottom isn't part of the in-game assistant

image.png
finite sparrow
#

sec, there is a bit more

#

for outlaw the parsed rotation is completely useless as it does not vanish or AR

shrewd cradle
#

Ah okay.

noble pendant
#

simc does that

finite sparrow
#

for testing we assumed some rudimentary logic for it

#

i see

noble pendant
#

all the specs have the assisted combat rotation auto-generated, and then basic cooldown logic is added on top

finite sparrow
#

nvm, it is all there then

shrewd cradle
#

Thank you both. Appreciate it.

finite sparrow
#

it seems you can set use_blizzard_action_list=1 and also one_button_mode=1 do it automatically

shrewd cradle
#

Oh - wait, where would I put that?

noble pendant
#

should work to put that into the custom apl section

lavish pine
#

how would i make jastor diamond not ever proc in sims
cause its bugged on some fights
need to sim it not procing

noble pendant
#

that is not something you can just turn off

lavish pine
#

i just set the rppm to 0.01 and that worked well enough for me

knotty oriole
#

one_button_mode applies the GCD penalty, but you can use the other one to see how well it would do in theory without a penalty

civic parcel
#

I thought Throwing this here,m maybe someone can confirm or deny. 🙂

In AoE when we can gurrantue max CP with one Shurikenstorm. Could we not also Shuriken storm in between Coups to preserve the Unseen Blade Stacks or am I missing something?

image.png
regal agate
# civic parcel I thought Throwing this here,m maybe someone can confirm or deny. 🙂 In AoE wh...

Seems reasonable.
Doing a quick test, it seems like to be worth it starting on 6 targets.
The APL change:```ansi
actions.build+=/shuriken_storm,if=buff.tww3_trickster_4pc.up&(buff.shadow_blades.up|variable.targets>=6)

[6 Targets +0.5% dps](<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kesNsZePrWwVrjAUzX4gWr>) | [7 Targets +0.4% dps](<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/m6hw3Pbq8qfmmKWENzx5wm>) | [8 Targets +0.3% dps](<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/saH43f642URqNmJrip4hr6>) | [9 Targets +0.3% dps](<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4BtQ2PJLnnJDrhpcLfQ9tn>) | [10 Targets +0.3% dps](<https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6941DyFTXwaztVHfjLgWFv>)
sweet slate
#

Seems doable with enough targets or shadow techniques stacks to guarantee 6+ combo points (sims neutral)

finite radish
#

I had a related question about vanish usage the other day:

image.png
#

on single target ^

the downside is that vanish is usable to gain access to a shadowstrike outside of dance, upside is protecting an unseen blade proc and progressing toward the next coup (and also gaining premed inside a dance is like 7 Shadow Techniques stacks effectively, more finishers inside the dance?)

proven sparrow
finite radish
#

Do you happen to have the simulations available similar to what Fuu sent above?

#

(Many people would gloss over 0.5% gain as "the same as not doing it" - somewhat nonspecific answer)

sweet slate
#

typically when referred to as neutral it means its within the margin for error in sims

#

so that would be less than 0.5%

#

closer to 0.1/0.2% or less

finite radish
#

Just spent an hour and a half on this, learned how to edit APL

#

...it's within margin of error (-0.04% loss to vanish for storm between coups, compared to standard logic)

#

but I feel better now

vivid cosmos
#

whenever i edit this, it destroys my sim.. i would of thought changing >=3 to like 100 would make it never cast it in a dslice but it just blows up?

image.png
#

did this work? sorry im super noob

regal agate
vivid cosmos
#

''' like this '''

#

wrong button

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i dont even have that on my keyboard lol

#

oh this

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oh its tilde

#

why does this keep dying? i dont get what i am doing wrong

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9uEjKx8HbPiutUdNxzVUDX


actions.finish=secret_technique,if=variable.secret
# Maintenance Finisher
actions.finish+=/rupture,if=!variable.skip_rupture&(!dot.rupture.ticking|refreshable|buff.flagellation_buff.up&!buff.symbols_of_death.up&variable.targets<=2)&target.time_to_die-remains>6&cooldown.flagellation.remains>=10
actions.finish+=/rupture,cycle_targets=1,if=!variable.skip_rupture&!variable.priority_rotation&target.time_to_die>=(2*combo_points)&refreshable&variable.targets>=2
# Direct Damage Finisher
actions.finish+=/coup_de_grace,if=debuff.fazed.up&cooldown.flagellation.remains>=20|fight_remains<=10
actions.finish+=/black_powder,if=!variable.priority_rotation&variable.maintenance&(((variable.targets>=100&talent.deathstalkers_mark&(!buff.darkest_night.up|buff.shadow_dance.up&variable.targets>=100))|talent.unseen_blade&variable.targets>=100)|action.coup_de_grace.ready&variable.targets>=100)
actions.finish+=/eviscerate,if=cooldown.flagellation.remains>=10|variable.targets>=3```
Raidbots
Advanced Sim - Loopug - Raidbots
#

is this not what i need for the copy?

regal agate
#

because its sensitive.
It should be copy="no blackpowder"

#

^ just removing the spaces and it works

vivid cosmos
#

ok ty, im super new at this.. i keep reverting to a clip i took of whispyr to try learn stuff haha

#

so this sim shows that if i never use bp its only a 0.9% dps loss lol

#

6.4% in 10 targets over 5 min

regal agate
#

you would just comment out a line if you want to prevent the use

#

e.g. in this case

vivid cosmos
#

i did that the first time and it errored so i am assuming i took out too much of it

#

i think i have figured out what i wanted to do, see if it errors

regal agate
# 
copy="no bp"
actions.finish=secret_technique,if=variable.secret
actions.finish+=/rupture,if=!variable.skip_rupture&(!dot.rupture.ticking|refreshable&cooldown.shadow_blades.remains>=12|buff.flagellation_buff.up&!buff.symbols_of_death.up&variable.targets=1)&target.time_to_die-remains>6
actions.finish+=/rupture,cycle_targets=1,if=!variable.skip_rupture&!variable.priority_rotation&target.time_to_die>=(2*combo_points)&refreshable&variable.targets>=2
actions.finish+=/coup_de_grace,if=debuff.fazed.up&(!talent.flagellation|cooldown.flagellation.remains>=20)|fight_remains<=10
#actions.finish+=/black_powder,if=!variable.priority_rotation&variable.maintenance&(((variable.targets>=2&talent.deathstalkers_mark&(!buff.darkest_night.up|buff.shadow_dance.up&variable.targets>=5))|talent.unseen_blade&variable.targets>=4)|action.coup_de_grace.ready&variable.targets>=3)
actions.finish+=/eviscerate,if=cooldown.flagellation.remains>=10|!talent.flagellation|variable.targets>=3
vivid cosmos
regal agate
#

would just do something like this

vivid cosmos
#

i wanted to see if +1 to mobs of bp and how it scales dif

#

because i swear my bp hits like a wet noodle

regal agate
#

so for no bp, you lose 4.3% dps

vivid cosmos
#

why is your dps so much higher than mine

#

is that dslice?

regal agate
#

yes its dungeon slice

vivid cosmos
#

im doing 2m less dps than you lol

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wtf

regal agate
#

probably because of talent diffrences

vivid cosmos
#

i copied your m+ talents

regal agate
#

gear too potentially

vivid cosmos
#

you have cb?

#

im running this

image.png
regal agate
#

!sheet

plush slateBOT
regal agate
#

^ you can just look at it in the sheet

vivid cosmos
#

aww

#

coming from sin, are stats way more important for sub?

vivid cosmos
regal agate
vivid cosmos
regal agate
#

if you need help can just ask in here, or in #1065728795455266888. Can also dm me any time if you need more specific things.

stuck hull
#

I think there’s a bug with Screams of The Forgotten Sky. On Dinensius, if you use Blade Flurry on CD, even when there’s no adds., you accumulate debuff stacks faster. Like I am exiting phase 1 with 2 to 3 times as much.

finite sparrow
#

it should just be an rppm proc from spells, seems unlikely that it would be both not rppm and that blade flurry in particular would be different than your other melee spells

frosty totem
#

Have you guys simmed cursed stone idol as the 2nd on use in dslice/for keys It gives passive and a lot of crit for sub*

finite sparrow
#

for outlaw it is established to be strong in aoe

frosty totem
#

Well im just curious (for sub) it doesnt have the same problems as forge, does 1.5mil damage and around 18.7k crit over forges 23k? normalized agi? Over 15 seconds

#

10.7k + 8k from passive

#
  • not losing passive for most of the key
sweet slate
#

if you replace forge logic with csi in the prism call in apl it simmed at a loss for my character

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didn't override all buffs but I doubt that would move the needle enough

proven sparrow
#

Yeah the condition for cursed stone idol was being used instead of prism as its checking for it earlier (ie before blades rahter than together with blades). Ill push an update soonish but its still not near the top combinations of trinkets

image.png
frosty totem
#

reason i ask is the same logic behind forge is behind idol, except a large amount of this is crit and crit is worth more than agi, as well as 1.5mil damage

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while also not losing passive

frosty totem
#

any simming been done to storm once in the 2nd or 3rd dance (if FW is not up) with the rotten instead of backstab, so dance/symbols -> storm -> sectec

finite radish
#

on aoe?

frosty totem
#

yes, sorry

finite radish
#

I don't have a simulation-backed answer for your question, but what intuitively makes sense to me (and what I've seen in top M+ logs for Rotten users) is:
symbols-storm-dance-sectech -> etc

#

rather than spending a dance global on storm

frosty totem
#

in the 2nd dance?

finite radish
frosty totem
#

looks like TR every dance

finite radish
#

dunno, top logs aren't always "perfect play" (simulator accurate)

#

just proof that it works in a +18 key

#

casualaddict running shuriken tornado

image.png
#

he does symbols-storm-dance for every single dance on aoe

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which definitely sounds better than spending your premed buff on a storm as first dance builder

#

the alternative is just not running the rotten at all, and trusting the fact that you start the pull with storm-rupture-storm-rupture, and your natural coup-storm-coup with tierset

frosty totem
finite radish
#

you'll naturally coup storm coup still

#

sometimes at least

jaunty forum
#

how does antenna works in sim? do the buffs get picked up on spawn or is there any optimization?

proven sparrow
#

There is no optimization of when its picking up the orbs

regal agate
#

## Race Comparison:
Copy/Paste string to sim all consumables.
How to use:

📎 race.txt
vivid cosmos
#

does anyone know how to set prism to a certain amount of stacks at the start of the sim?

finite sparrow
#

try override.precombat_state=buff.latent_energy.stack=18 in expert mode -> base player customization

kindred fiber
#

how do i update the sim to use netherprism every other set of cds for sub instead of pooling for 18 stacks? Trying to test every other dps difference vs a pooled one for non dmg amp fights

proven sparrow
#

Every other set is 18 stacks though?

kindred fiber
#

except for the first time it uses it in the sim is at 3min instead of 1:30

brisk fern
finite sparrow
#

for outlaw it is used alongside vanish and after KIR (so 4+ buffs are ticking)

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regardless of what stacks it happens to be at this point

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Outlaw doesn't care about the stacks a whole lot

brisk fern
#

ah okay thanks 🙂

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is that was the sim is doing as well?

finite sparrow
#

that's what the sim is doing

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In game you can do this or you can easily flex it based on pulls or damage amp since it's not a huge deal

brisk fern
#

great. is this the ideal trinket for m+?

finite sparrow
#

it's just one of several close trinkets after sigil

#

would consider stone idol slightly better for uncapped dmg

lavish arch
#

nvm i just threw it in at the end and it seems to be working

quasi quarry
#

Well it does say to do that

lavish arch
#

it just says to copy paste it, doesnt say where

glass juniper
#

hey, is there a simple way to set up preselected amount of stacks for netherprism to start a sim on? wanna sim some m+ stuff

regal agate
glass juniper
#

oh, lol

#

thank you

covert plover
#

To sim for pure M+ for Assassination, is it best to use D Slice? or is there custom inputs to get the best results?

lavish stratus
covert plover
#

ty

sudden warren
#

I have a question about the APL.
In the Subtlety APL, Prism is used like this. Assuming my Prism is equipped in trinket slot 1, why doesn’t the second line cause Prism to be used on CD?

use_items,slots=trinket1,if=(variable.trinket_sync_slot=1&(buff.shadow_blades.up|fight_remains<=20)|(variable.trinket_sync_slot=2&(!trinket.2.cooldown.ready&cooldown.shadow_blades.remains>20))|!variable.trinket_sync_slot)```
finite sparrow
#

i believe a named use_item overrides a generic use_items

sudden warren
#

so use_items is not context free?

#

that surprises me

#

If my understanding of the APL is correct, after using araz in opener and going through until the end of Shadow Blades, when again simc scanning from top to bottom, the condition on the line use_item,name=unyielding_netherprism is not met, so it will then try to execute the following use_items,slots=trinket1 which will pass the criteria.
Unless that line automatically checks whether you already have an explicit usage defined for Prism in your APL?

finite sparrow
#

it checks explicitly named trinkets

image.png
sudden warren
#

💯

#

ty

ruby drift
#

Anyone know how to check for amount of targets with a specific debuff? (In the APL)

nova crag
ruby drift
nova crag
ruby drift
ruby drift
karmic hamlet
#

destiny defined in fatebound only increases poison chance for assassination right? not for outlaw

#

oh i see the todo note to test, maybe it's still unknow. given how blizz usually codes these i'd assume not

finite sparrow
#

It does affect outlaw

#

yeah the spell data doesn't seem to distinguish and it's probably not scripted

karmic hamlet
#

yeah usually they disable effects to match the tooltip, guess the dev forgot on this

nova crag
#

to answer this: scoundrel strike does take into account SC

image.png
knotty oriole
regal agate
#

Midnight Pre Patch - gear strings for Top Gear:

Best is to use in Raidbots Top Gear to have all items available.
How to use: copy/paste the content of the text file below your /simc in top gear.

Note The crafted gear list is trimmed and does not include embellishments added to gear, use the + symbol to add embellishments to the crafted piece of your choice.
Note - Simulations The Gear probably does not work on Raidbots before patch release, use Mimiron Top Gear instead.
Info If there is something missing or a typo/mistake please reach out so I can fix it.

📎 TWW_Gear_-_Pre_patch.txt 📎 TWW_Crafted_Gear_-_pre_patch.txt
sudden warren
#

What does /pool_resource,for_next=1 mean? I suddenly got a bit confused.

finite sparrow
#

if you dont have energy for the next action, then pool until you can use it

sudden warren
#

If this line isn’t there, will SimC skip the action when there isn’t enough energy?

#

I always thought that if the condition of an action is met, SimC would keep returning that action until there is enough energy.

finite sparrow
sudden warren
#

ic

#

garf_sit ty

sudden warren
#

I checked the simc source code but couldn’t find an implementation where summarily dispatched reduces the energy cost of dispatch.

#

The related logic seems to only affect dispatch’s damage multiplier.

#

Did simc miss this?

finite sparrow
sudden warren
#

ic

finite sparrow
#

the damange bonus had to be manually done as the dynamic effect with BtE is not quite able to be automatic

sudden warren
#

cool

#

ty solokekdog

stray bolt
#

Some gain from Sub Sim:

  1. the use of shiv in SB dance with EB=4 to save one UB during SB:
    actions+=/shiv,if=buff.shadow_blades.up&combo_points=0&buff.shadow_dance.up&buff.premeditation.up&buff.escalating_blade.stack=4&talent.danse_macabre&prev.secret_technique

  2. cast Storm with EB=3 with preme + Silent + DS (disorienting strikes from SecTech) if CB not applied (likely if prev is SecTech):
    actions+=/shuriken_storm,if=combo_points=0&buff.shadow_dance.up&buff.premeditation.up&buff.escalating_blade.stack>=3&talent.danse_macabre&talent.cold_blooded_killer&buff.silent_storm.up&!buff.cold_blood.up&buff.disorienting_strikes.stack>0

Due to the "forcing clone" strike line has been put in default already, So these two lines need to be put before the "forcing clone" strike line (in default as well).

  1. cast BP in single if clone cannot be forced:
    actions.finish+=/black_powder,if=!buff.supercharge_1.up&!buff.supercharge_2.up&buff.shadow_dance.up&!used_for_danse&!buff.ancient_arts.up&(variable.targets=1)
    This line is added in finish section.

  2. idle before an incoming dance to save tech or energy:
    actions.finish+=/eviscerate,if=buff.shadow_dance.up|cooldown.secret_technique.remains>4
    This line replaces the original eviscerate line.

  3. tighten shadow dance regarding shadow blades:
    actions.cds+=/shadow_dance,if=!variable.stealth&variable.shd_cp&energy>=30&(buff.shadow_blades.up&!cooldown.secret_technique.ready&buff.shadow_blades.remains>=cooldown.secret_technique.remains|buff.shadow_blades.up&cooldown.secret_technique.duration>=18|cooldown.secret_technique.ready&cooldown.shadow_blades.remains>9)|fight_remains<=10
    The major change here is increase threashold check of Shadow Blades' cooldown from 7 to 9. I also added some buff.xxxx.up condition so there seems cases the first &&& condition in the cooldown check does not work.

#

Total gain is +1.1%

stray bolt
#

for 4. idle before an incoming dance to save tech or energy would be companied with
actions.finish+=/coup_de_grace,if=buff.shadow_dance.up|cooldown.secret_technique.remains>4
to save a coup to dance as well.

proven sparrow
# stray bolt Some gain from Sub Sim: 1. the use of shiv in SB dance with EB=4 to save one UB ...

Holding some sht stacks for dance is something that the sim likes doing one day and then the next day its negative again, but yeah it seems to be positive for now.
The shadow dance changes are indeed a gain on pure ST with the haste value that the default profile has, but there are some of them where its negative and its also negative in practically every other scenario than pure ST trickster, so not entirely sure what to do with it.
The rest of the line changes seem completely irrelevant as they are just insanely rare, like the shiv line is being used 0.13 times per pull, the storm line is functionality identical to the pre-existing storm line and the BP line is also exceedingly rare, to the point where it really makes no sense to include these

stray bolt
#

The pre-existing storm line works requiring prev.shadow_dance not after SecTech, that's totally different.

#

Shiv line does not have a major applicance due to the fact it only works for Shadow blades and the current Coup line does not try to align with shadow blades.

proven sparrow
#

Whats the purpose of having it only be during blades

stray bolt
#

It is very difficult to focus a coup control line in sim due to the random timeline in its own nature and yet for a stronger boost in real world raid scenarioes, especially with damage boost debuffs/buffs, that could guarantee a double Coupe in a blade window for practical requirement of damage check.

#

This means a further coup holding before shadow blades and use the shiv to save an instance of UB

#

The coup line can be further elaborated for a longer holding before a blade/dance with one instance of replacement of BP rather launch it earlier before major cd, which provides gain depending on gear haste selection.

#

Right now the challenge is for Bloodlust effects on SecTech that greatly changes the cd of SecTech which desynchronises the alignment of many cds, which in general does not provide a problem due to we have 2 charges of dance to wait for SecTech, and yet it causes misalignment when more CDs are considered.

stray bolt
#

In practice, we'd like to see a "VERY" early SecTech before next blade so we wont have it wating too much before that blade. However, we wont want a SecTech "JUST" before next blade so we cast a dance too close to next blade so we have to cast a blade with only one or one plus a very late dance.

stray bolt
#

So after all this, I think we'll re-consider our haste threshold for a more smooth sim and practical gameplay.

#

It could be more experimental if we check with best scenario or most optimised situation, with minimal SecTech cd loss, to see a haste if achieveable or so, then we'd see if we'll have two different SIM logic based on players' gear selection.

stray bolt
# proven sparrow Holding some sht stacks for dance is something that the sim likes doing one day ...

and this is also not just holding sht for dance.
I also changed the backstab logic:
actions.build+=/backstab,if=variable.targets<2&cooldown.secret_technique.remains>5
actions.build+=/backstab,if=variable.targets<2&energy>60

In current logic, there are situation we actually wait for energy to launch shadowdance, or waiting for cp.
a 4 sec idle before dance, which we could tighten the number based on Sht stacks, is currently working for the gear selection and the logic.

It is not about sht we hold for the dance, but a more "fitting" sim style condition so we dont keep backstabbing while need cp or energy.

#

and this 4sec idle not mean we're totally idle, but not casting finishers, and mange energy for dance.
This
a) saves sht in nature
b) saves too close coup
at the same time
Even its gain is limited, but a more relaxed sim for sub for the moment.

proven sparrow
#

Because it will use the one underneath anyway

#

I have no idea what "relaxed sim" is even supposed to mean

stray bolt
#

it means casting evis too close by default near an incoming dance would delay the dance due to the need of cp or energy.

#

give it a bit relaxed scenario makes it more natural for next dance.

#

and there could be some gain if before a dance we have Silent still up while CB not up, we could try to use that before a dance.
This wont be a significant gain due to the fact we need to backstab multiple times before the dance. However, we might try to extract every bit out of it.

proven sparrow
#

Checking for CB is just nonsense

stray bolt
#

and this could be further exploited after a dance while quite far before a dance, if we believe multiple casts of backstabs are enough for next dance, if we have high Sht, we can still use Storm for a small gain in crit.

#

You can believe that's nonsense, but that's not a good spirit for me to consider if we're trying to sim the most out of it as we're selecting the talent for a good reason if not just passing down the tree.

#

Current default sim does not use this 100% crit of Storm to obtain CB in the whole ST sim, which I consider a loss.

proven sparrow
#

The sim does not consider it a loss

stray bolt
#

It could be quite rare scenarios for it to cast, but a bit is a bit and showing it on is a thing.

stray bolt
#
  1. not forcing clone if we're having SecTech right after a refund, a small gain:
    actions+=/shadowstrike,if=talent.unseen_blade&buff.shadow_techniques.stack>=5&!buff.ancient_arts.up&(variable.targets<=4)&!(combo_points>=6&cooldown.secret_technique.ready&buff.shadow_dance.up)
proven sparrow
# stray bolt You can believe that's nonsense, but that's not a good spirit for me to consider...

The reason why it would be nonsense is not that i hate every single new idea that could be a gain, but because we never end up casting two builders in a row during dance with how current sub plays, so something that checks for cold blood is just never gonna be relevant as you would end up finishing anyway. And outside of dance youre gonna end up with CB most of the time anyway as the crit chance of backstab is so high, while the damage of those finishers are also more negligible than inside dance ones. So its just not gonna be something thats relevant to look at for conditions within the APL.

#

Silent storm itself isnt even outside of margin in AoE as trickster, because youre upping the average crit chance from like 75% to 80%, on a spell thats doing like 2% of your damage

regal agate
stray bolt
lament citrus
#

is there a way to "check" if certrain items are oversimming / simming correctly (eg trinkets / ring sets)

regal agate
lament citrus
#

thanks

finite sparrow
#

strictly speaking, to determine if an item is oversimming, you compare it to in game

lament citrus
#

thats what i was doing for now. i just hit the dummy 5min multiple times to get a vague idea?

finite sparrow
#

more or less

#

not necessarily for the percentage of its damage breakdown, but more like its average hit

lament citrus
#

isnt stuff like avg hit removed from ingame dmg meters?

sweet slate
#

gotta log

lament citrus
#

i see

regal agate
#

testing usually requires longer period of time to get accurate results, just something to keep in mind.

lament citrus
#

is there a way to "change" the default simc profile (eg i want 700 haste to be the sweet spot for my sims) ?

finite sparrow
#

there is no concept of enforcing a specific stat threshold

#

if 700 haste is ideal for dps, then surely your top gear results will trend towards it

lament citrus
#

the thing is its not optimal for the machine but has more room for human error and feels

devout tangle
#

I thought the sim accounts for a 0.2s leeway gap in inputs

finite sparrow
#

I don't think so, there is a world_lag setting that is implied to be between 5-15ms or so, but certainly not 200ms

#

two actions not on the global will be used at essentially the same time unless the APL is instructed otherwise

#

I may be misinterpreting what you mean by "accounts for"

barren raven
#

do we already know how much of a % gain the tier sets are for each spec?

noble pendant
#

roughly 3-4%

#

for each bonus

devout tangle
#

If not, some ppl are gonna get hard baited by sim-perfect haste when they can’t mash buttons like a machine

tame lantern
#

hello sharing this in relation to the renown trinket from voidstorm, crucible of erratic energies not simming correctly. a viewer of mine put this together a short while ago so I thought it might be good to forward here https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues/11158?reload=1

GitHub
Crucible of Erratic Energies (264507) never procs for Subtlety Rogu...

Describe the bug The voidlust proc from Crucible of Erratic Energies (item id 264507) never fires for subtlety rogue (other melee specs too?). The driver spell 1272091 has proc_flags=0x00015500 whi...

finite sparrow
#

does anyone have a log with this trinket?

umbral charm
#

I’m pretty sure all my m0s have that trinket on, I just got to work so it will be a while

finite sparrow
#

nvm, a log might not really help, would need to do controlled testing

royal crow
sacred shore
finite sparrow
#

it's probably poisons, the only debuff outlaw can possibly apply

#

will confirm whenever i get my hands on it

nova crag
finite sparrow
#

i know, but it seems unlikely the spell data is just wrong

#

ultimately need to control test it with just auto attacks and nothing else, then with poisons, etc...

nova crag
#

I can prepare something like that

#

autos only, lethal poison+autos, nonlethal poison+autos, abilities only

final moat
#

Thanks for the additional info, I filed the github issue and didn't realize 0x00015500 comes straight from blizzard files. Agree it's unlikely to be wrong. Are there other trinkets with the same proc flag that simulate properly?

nova crag
#

Log trying the above
It seems to have procced from: bs, sstrike, sectec clones (the second one in both cases but it might not be relevant)

#

nothing else appeared to work

final moat
#

that makes sense, "SX_ONLY_PROC_FROM_CLASS_ABILITIES" is in the driver spell flags

nova crag
#

the thing that they all have in common is applying Fazed, but that looks like a coincidence (the timing for the procs from sectec match the second clone, not applying the debuff). I am testing with DS to be sure

#

ye ds bs can still proc it

final moat
#

I think I found the issue(?) the Crucible callback is only registered for spell/ranged/periodic proc types
(0x00015500), so it never fires for melee actions at all. The SX_ONLY_PROC_FROM_CLASS_ABILITIES check in trigger() is
never even reached for melee specs because the dispatch filter blocks them first

final moat
#

I made a small workaround of this issue locally and compiled/tested simc and was able to succesfully see voidlust procs on rogue abilities (not auto attacks). I submitted a PR to simc for the WAR

finite sparrow
#

I don't see how the existence of the SX_ONLY_PROC_FROM_CLASS_ABILITIES attribute would imply the existence of the melee proc flag

#

need to rule out this message #244072792948080641 message, that there is no possible buff/debuff/healing event that could have proc'd it

nova crag
#

I can find large (over a second) gaps between healing/buffs gained by the source/debuffs applied by the source between the event and the proc of voidlust in my log

#

to me that rules out all 3 of them

finite sparrow
#

should link a specific example or two in the PR

nova crag
#

okie, I will do that

knotty oriole
#

There is a little more that goes into this than is obvious

#

There are plenty of things we cast that are not considered melee abilities

#

And are considered generic hostile spells

#

It seems doubtful that making it proc generically from all melee abilities matches what is being described in game

nova crag
nova crag
#

so something is fishy

#

it is picky with the spells it procs off

knotty oriole
#

Proc flags are in addition to the class ability restrictions, the two parts are independent

#

The proc flags including Generic Heal, Generic Hostile Spell definitely apply to some rogue abilities.

#

Not all of our heals are currently modeled in SimC though

#

Fatebound Coin is considered a generic hostile spell for example

#

Thistle Tea

#

Lucky Coin

#

Deathstalker’s Mark

#

Etc.

#

You can look for Spell Type: Magic in our rogue.txt in the spell data dump

nova crag
#

the only with such spell type which would apply for a trickster sub rogue would be replicating shadows, and that's not the current RS but a BFA azerite power

finite sparrow
#

no poison, no slice and dice healing, no other event

#

...is SS just a generic hostile spell?

final moat
#

Further to solo's point about it seeming to proc directly from abilities like sinister strike, when those should not proc it based on the proc flags:

After LordBlackAdder logged a short combat trying different things (quoted from my Github Issue)

First only auto attack a dummy with no poisons
Result: no procs
Only auto the dummy with just a lethal poison
Result: no procs
Only auto the dummy with just a nonlethal poison
Result: no procs
Only special attack the dummy with no autos/poisons
Result: procs seemingly after Backstab, Shadowstrike, Secret Technique second clone hit
The procs are seemingly attributed to those abilities because the aura gain for Voidlust appears to have either identical (in the case of Backstab and SecTect second clone hit), or very close timestamp to their damage (Shadowstrike). There might be more abilities that proc it, but from my limited testing it was only those 3 (and in the case of SecTec only the second clone hit).

Can the proc be from a buff gain, debuff application, or healing event?
From the looks of it, not anything visible in the logs. There are big gaps between such events and procs.

The only debuff applied was Fazed and you can find procs seconds after Fazed being applied

finite sparrow
#

yeah, as established, it seems to proc from some class abilities but not all of them

knotty oriole
#

There’s still background spells that could be applicable here. Healing is also very iffy historically. Even healing values of 0 can proc healing things even if they don’t show in the logs.

#

Without seeing the entire build being used it’s hard to say

nova crag
#

sec I will remove all healing talents and leech

knotty oriole
#

Slice and Dice has historically triggered healing procs constantly even without Recuperator for example

#

Because the base aura has a 0 value periodic heal every 3 seconds which is increased by the talent to a real value.

#

But 0 value heals can still trigger healing procs

#

Recuperator is not required in order to benefit from that

nova crag
#

there are procs with no snd up in the log

knotty oriole
#

Same for Shadow Dance and Stealth heals

#

It’s just an example

#

Generic Hostile Spell applies to so many things as well, that can apply to spell type none which there are 100s of

nova crag
knotty oriole
#

Find Weakness probably counts as a Generic Hostile Spell

#

It is Spell Type None

#

And allows class ability procs

nova crag
#

there are voidlust procs from bs plain hits which don't proc FW

image.png
knotty oriole
#

But given a lot of stuff doesn’t get logged anymore it’s unfortunately hard to diagnose

#

Also possible the healing proc triggers are set to trigger off any resource gains which could include CP gains

#

So far haven’t seen you post any correlation with non-generators

nova crag
#

there are procs from sectec

knotty oriole
#

So that’s certainly a possibility and has happened before

nova crag
#

which doesn't generate

knotty oriole
#

SecTech definitely has a generic hostile spell component

#

282438 and 1269663 for example

nova crag
#

sectec technically also comes with an energize event and one buff gain due to giving shadow techniques per clone. But the timestamp of voidlust perfectly matching the damage event makes it more likely

image.png
knotty oriole
#

The hostile generic spells are used for targeting the clone spawns from what I can tell

#

No idea why they are flagged to allow procs but they seem to be

nova crag
#

the first one has both Allow Class Ability Procs and Suppress Caster Procs. Do these work together?

finite sparrow
#

well, even if melee attacks really dont proc it, the actual generic hostile spells like fatebound coin are not proccing it in simc either

#

suppose fixing that would allow the specs to sim it without having to resolve the class abilities just yet

#

is that something that can be adjusted from the module?

red raptor
#

I mean might be scuffed as hell - but could you just log procs per minute and make it so you randomly get it based on the proc rate?

Seems like it's unlikely that we'll be able to test ability by ability with any accuracy / speed.

#

Perhaps give it a pseudo proc rate from just auto attacks or something?

final moat
red raptor
final moat
#

yeah, not horrible though. also I gotta figure out how to add a flat crit buff in raidbots lol I just assume you can

craggy imp
#

I locked crucible because i wasnt sure if it was simming it correctly

sudden warren
#

In sub’s simc profile it’s written like this:

actions+=/shadowstrike,if=(buff.darkest_night.up|talent.unseen_blade)&buff.shadow_techniques.stack>=5&!buff.ancient_arts.up&(variable.targets<=3+talent.weaponmaster)```
If I don’t take apex talent rank 3, then wouldn’t the condition !buff.ancient_arts.up always be true?
ruby drift
regal agate
sudden warren
#

I manually edited the talents and ran again

#

Yes, now it keeps repeatedly casting shadowstrike at that point

ruby drift
#

xd

regal agate
#

expected result, just needs a talent check to avoid

ruby drift
#

How do you talent check it? talent.ancient_arts_4 or what is the syntax when its multiple point investments into something with the same name?

sudden warren
#

talent.ancient_arts_3

#

ancient_arts_2 itself has 2 ranks

ruby drift
#

what how do you check for 2nd point of ancient arts 2 then?

sudden warren
ruby drift
#

Ye quite the difference

image.png image.png
regal agate
#

## Race Comparison:
Copy/Paste string to sim all consumables.
How to use:

📎 race.txt
#

## Consumables (Food/Weapon oil/Flask/Combat potion):
Copy/Paste string to sim all consumables.
How to use:

📎 food_midnight.txt
regal agate
#

Midnight - gear strings for Top Gear:

Best is to use in Raidbots Top Gear to have all items available.
How to use: copy/paste the content of the text file below your /simc in top gear.

Note The crafted gear is trimmed and does not include all embellishments/stats, use the + symbol to add embellishments and stats to the crafted piece of your choice.
Note Delve/Hunt gear might not be complete.
Info If there is something missing or a typo/mistake please reach out so I can fix it.

📎 Midnight_Gear.txt
ashen basin
#

do we use dungeon slice for aoe/m+ or still patchwork with like 5 bosses?

regal agate
#

Dungeon slice is a good mixed fight style, you can use it for gear evaluation for mythic+ or bosses with a lot of adds

#

if you want to sim for aoe, patchwerk with however much targets you need/want

ashen basin
rare turret
#

anyone have a new bis list?

raw knoll
small mauve
#

is it more accurate to run patchwerk or "hectic add cleave" for simulating how the raid bosses actually play out?

#

or maybe some other fight style is better?

regal agate
#

Depends on the fight, it is possible to create custom fight scripts to customize the simulation - reference

#

however, patchwerk or dungeon slice should both be good estimates for a single target or mixed fight

minor lily
#

Potentially silly question on reading a simc report. Do the Stack Uptimes here define the number of stacks of the buff that was used in the sim? I noticed the buff for Vessel of Tortured Souls is seemingly going up to 10 in the sim, but in practice (and what I've seen in others logs), the orbs don't spawn frequently enough to ever go above 5 stacks. Curious if I'm just misinterpreting the report, or if something is off with how the orb spawn is simulated. Thanks for any help!

Screenshot_2026-03-23_at_12.57.39_PM.png
finite sparrow
#

your sim is on weekly mode, if you set it to Latest, the miss chance has been updated to 60% by default

#

which looks more like this

image.png
minor lily
nova crag
#

yes

finite sparrow
#

0.61% average uptime over 40,000 pulls or what have you

minor lily
#

Cool cool, thanks for the clarification! Appreciate all the help

vapid wyvern
#

Why does raidbots show higher haste for this trinket than it is actually ingame

image-1.webp image.webp
finite sparrow
#

The tooltips are pulled from wowhead and are unrelated to simc

vapid wyvern
#

Ah okay

finite sparrow
#

0.000 Player 'Vaerminà ' gains Buff 'emberwing_heatwave' (1250508) (stacks=1) (value=-2.225074e-308, time_duration_multiplier=1)

0.000 Vaerminà gains 500.00 haste_rating (temporary)

#

Just to confirm

muted rose
#

Hello ! In raidbot it is written when selecting "dungeon slice": 6 minute slice of an M+ dungeon. Overrides Fight Length. Check with your class Discord to see if appropriate for your spec.

So my question is: is it appropriate for sub rogue ?

noble pendant
#

dungeonslice is well supported for all 3 rogue specs yes

muted rose
#

ok thank you 🙂

bleak shoal
#

Hello there, which one is the best way to sim for raiding in raidbots?

regal agate
#

patchwerk or a light cleave fight style, tho questions like this are better asked in the regular spec channels.

bleak shoal
lucid breach
#

is there any chance I get someone smart with sims to test my theory? I swear it's gotta be more optimal to get more overlap on SB+dance than to get your ST supercharged

proven sparrow
#

Its like -0.3%

#

Compared to what the sim is doing

#

I just checked

#

Or well, i checked lining dance up with the end of blades

#

Doing what you said makes sectech clones hit outside of dance. As you would need sectech to be the penultimate global for it to actually hit inside of the dance

lucid breach
#

ah I see, thank you, it's gonna feel weird

lucid breach
pine mauve
#

hey all!

Do you have a macro that is marking the current target with star for example?

#

I want to announce my kick targets with it 😮

regal agate
pine mauve
#

Thanks, that helped. Jeah sorry! my bad :/

short oracle
#

i have a theory but probably somebody else already tried it with sims shouldn't sub rogue maximaze procs of Danse Macabre by using shuriken storm and blackpowder during shadow dance in single target? even in single target?

regal agate
#

shuriken storm is not too far off, black powder is not worth it.

sudden warren
#

In assassination’s APL, it’s written like this.

actions.cds=deathmark,if=dot.garrote.ticking&dot.rupture.ticking&cooldown.kingsbane.remains<=2&buff.envenom.remains>2&(target.time_to_die>10|fight_remains<20)
# Check for on-use trinket usage
actions.cds+=/call_action_list,name=items```
I’m really confused what ensures that we use the Puzzle Box before Deathmark?
sudden warren
#

oops it's gcd

sudden warren
#

dead But Puzzle Box can’t be used during the GCD, right?
confused again

#

this can't be truegarf_sit

image.png
noble pendant
#

Yeh it might be coded off gcd or something

#

Shouldn’t matter much, the sequence is correct

#

The 1.3 second cast is correct, but it’s not adhering to the GCD itself, but that’s not going to change the evaluation in a meaningful way

sudden warren
#

ic

noble pendant
#

I could probably pull box out of the item list and handle it separately on its own

ivory sedge
#

does someone has the custom API for sub for next weeks changes and can share it with me?

#

or do i need to use the ptr version for that?

proven sparrow
#

put ptr=1 in the expert mode section

ivory sedge
#

merci

jaunty forum
jaunty forum
#

Should be (as long as you have enough Haste for your breakpoint) a DMG gain for Mainhand.

frigid vapor
regal agate
sudden warren
jaunty forum
ruby drift
sudden warren
# 
actions.spend=envenom,if=buff.implacable_tracker.stack<4```
what is this implacable_tracker?![dead](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/932888396316155934.webp?size=128 "dead")
#

this thing?

image.png
noble pendant
#

Yes

#

That line is just if you’re not at 80

sudden warren
#

ty

small mauve
#

is it possible to sim for 12.0.5 changes on raidbots?

finite sparrow
#

yes, type ptr=1 in expert mode header box

#

though outlaw and sub have a bit updated rotation which is not pushed

small mauve
#

ah fantastic thanks

regal agate
#

##12.0.5 update Midnight - gear strings for Top Gear:
Best is to use in Raidbots Top Gear to have all items available.
How to use: copy/paste the content of the text file below your /simc in top gear.

Note The crafted gear is trimmed and does not include all embellishments/stats, use the + symbol to add embellishments and stats to the crafted piece of your choice.
Info If anything is missing or there's a typo/mistake, please reach out so I can fix it.

📎 Midnight_Gear.txt
regal agate
small mauve
#

any way to force a sim to a specific amount of haste? like the best armor combination with haste between 675 and 725 e.g.

regal agate
#

you can adjust the hast on gear in your profile via gear_haste_rating=XXX (replace XXX with the amount you want)

#

but this is nothing you should do if you want to compare gear pieces as it falsifies the result

#

you can alternatively apply a enchat to e.g. a shirt, or switch the weapon oil away to one which does not give haste.

finite sparrow
#

there is not an intuitive way to constrain top gear to x amount of haste

tulip nest
#

@regal agate So what's the deal with the breakpoint? Something about sims showing value at 600 but humans can't really perform unless you're at 700?

#

Trying to figure out if there's anything I can do to improve the situation without making new footguns

#

Definitely not going to add stat constraints to Top Gear since that's almost certainly a bigger problem than a solution

regal agate
#

The most common one is 700 with guidon (first boss voidspire)

#

without the trinket, it becomes roughly 800

#

and a diffrent (currently not played) hero talent goes up to the next point around 1100

tulip nest
#

Are sims not handling the breakpoints correctly?

regal agate
#

the sims handle them corretcly, but the timing is very tight

#

so human error, server tick rate and lag make it more valuable to have a slightly higher value

#

it is a design issue with the redesign in Midnight, we now have 2 spells affected by haste and both interact with it differently.
One extends duration in very small increments, which can lead to the problem of reliability.

nova crag
regal agate
#

oh sorry

#

i mean guidon

#

fixed

tulip nest
#

What's the guidance right now? Just check your gear + flask haste level depending on your talents/gear?

regal agate
#

the suggestion currently is to try to reach the breakpoints with flask/oils applied

#

a workaround people do is to change default weapon oils, to lower the total haste amount

gaunt sandal
regal agate
#

for raid, you typically use patchwerk simulations.
For mythic+ (gearing) dungeon slice.
Unsure what you mean with "damage looks weird"

#

the damage on a sim will be higher than on e.g. a dummy, because of raid buffs, potions/etc

gaunt sandal
#

@regal agate because for single target i was simming 110k now after this patch its 93k

#

weird

raw knoll
sudden warren
#

found a typo in the assassination APL

image.png
noble pendant
#

awkward

#

sandbagging pvp trinket

steady helm
#

hidden tech revealed