Def tossing dismantles on him and gouges etc
#pvp
stoic spruce
He'll rock your shit yeah
halcyon timber
Yeah gouge is really really important vs that crap
steel scarab
Can I just say, swapping to human I fully expected my winrate to drop like a rock without Shadowmeld. Instead my rating stayed the same. With WAY worse racials. Probably because with human racials I'm doing more sustained damage. Which as someone just said, is like the only thing that matters in SS
stoic spruce
Yes. Shadowmeld is thrown way out of proportion as to how strong it actually is
halcyon timber
Same w bm though as well control the zoo for sure
stoic spruce
As is most racials
steel scarab
If you guys knew how often I blew all my offensive and defensive cds bc I saw an opening and my idiot teammate didn't notice the obvious kill chance and then I'm like defenseless afterward and lose the war of attrition
jolly sierra
just make races cosmetic
wintry dew
Atleast you're not race changing to Nelf without understanding how to Meld and complain
steel scarab
The tldr here is you just need to be patient and out dps your opponents which is kinda dumb when the game does a bad job of telling you when opponents pop cds
halcyon timber
I was on doing a solo bg, sapped a warlock. Hunter decides to trap it so i blind his trinket and capture. He proceeds to break it
The point is, you can’t help dumb dumbs that want to be dumb dumb
wintry dew
All we can do is complain what we fail to do
halcyon timber
Same applies to shuffle
stoic spruce
All we can do is complain what we fail to do
And sub rogues
wintry dew
And sub rogues
halcyon timber
All we can do is adapt
wintry dew
Absolutely
stoic spruce
The fact my favorite spec in the game shares the class with my least favorite spec keeps me up at night
stoic spruce
Deserved
halcyon timber
Not the warrior who laid down the law
stoic spruce
For adapt and being a pally
halcyon timber
I was stealing a base making a pbj in the middle of blood elf tower
jolly sierra
that is the thing about being a rogue in the first place
halcyon timber
I took a bite and walked outside to see a warrior doing macho man randy savage stuff on a ret
wintry dew
Remember boys, we are the class no 1 likes to fight against in arenas, because those fuckers know we adapt
stoic spruce
OMG
wintry dew
we do weird shit
stoic spruce
OUTLAW
wintry dew
we win
halcyon timber
Well fuck other classes to begin with
wintry dew
100%
halcyon timber
Sincerely
stoic spruce
So they're tuning classes based on solo rbg
We know this
Now
Maybe
Just maybe
halcyon timber
Diablo 4 classes will he the focus
wintry dew
Solo Rated bgs will be actually fun
halcyon timber
Not us
stoic spruce
Outlaw can get more team oriented pvp talents
halcyon timber
Man fuck support talents
wintry dew
if we don't stand in queu for 3 hours
halcyon timber
Only if they buff you too
halcyon timber
Like the cool shit you guys have is cool but i wonder how much of that gets you nerfed too
wintry dew
We're probably the hardest class to play as, which makes every single one in this chat a Chad to begin with
halcyon timber
Hehe buff the shadow priest calling the monsties from dreams hehe ohh and lets nerf outlaw because he chose to buff the methhead evoker that is huffing home depot paint
jolly sierra
rogue itself is the hard thing, specs doesnt matter imo, cuz the toolkit and function is still the same
halcyon timber
Intelligence and wit are inconsistent of rogue vs other classes
Sap argument of nerds. You were out of combat and no dots
wintry dew
"frostbolt, ice lance x25, ray of frost"
wintry dew
The important part is "PvP is a niche gamemode"
jolly sierra
XD
surreal barn
That was to “don’t devs read this channel”
stoic spruce
Man fuck support talents
I mean really, the point is to make outlaw more appealing in a bg setting when you can't play with stealth windows like assa/sub and ninja bases
halcyon timber
I mean really, the point is to make outlaw more appealing in a bg setting when y...
Outlaw are gonna outlaw. We don’t need flip flop mfs plaguing our class
stoic spruce
Ain't no one rerolling outlaw
jolly sierra
That was to “don’t devs read this channel”
lets dodge the topic
hey guys how i can gank people in outdoor if most zones are dead?
surreal barn
Would have been funny to make the hero spec for outlaw “Combat”
stoic spruce
That's such a blizz thing to do too lol
stoic spruce
Me
surreal barn
Cool art where from
jolly sierra
AI
wintry dew
halcyon timber
The only reason we need to do what we do. Re rollers and fotm switchers be damned
jolly sierra
poor hyper
halcyon timber
Not making fun of anyone but rogue is for rogues
Not some hobo who wants to dilute our ways
halcyon timber
Cute
restive pebble
being a ww main, is rogue fairly similar. i know outlaw was, but got nerfed so now its assa on top.
tawdry lodge
when is it worth using killing spree
jolly sierra
rog is more about using ur ccs properly and mostly hit and run, outlaw is more its own type of gameplay exposing itself that much
tawdry lodge
wha
twin quest
do you shiv for bonus bleed damage before or after bleeds are applied?
iguess does it work retroactively on already applied bleeds?
twin burrow
If shiv is applied on the target then the effect will occur. So yes it applies to pre existing dots
Things get confusing with 4 versions of wow now lol
potent pivot
being a ww main, is rogue fairly similar. i know outlaw was, but got nerfed so n...
it's similar resource wise, like energy and combo points. but assa is quite a different feel compared to outlaw
it's more focused on bleeds, rather than spamming dispatch/envenom
restive pebble
yea
twin quest
are monks naturally hard for us? i feel like i start my go and i'm at like 30% all of a sudden
jolly sierra
u need to run a lot
something u can do too is shadowstep to another guy everytime they casts FoF
waxen meteor
are monks naturally hard for us? i feel like i start my go and i'm at like 30% a...
not really
feint deals with monk's burst well
twin quest
okay, i can try that! right now im doing 2s with my brother who's an enhance shaman. lol.
waxen meteor
step on own healer avoids their burst too
twin quest
feint deals with monk's burst well
ugh, feint - duh. i cant believe i didnt even think of that.
im still forgetting to thistle tea lmfao. so im learning hard
waxen meteor
ugh, feint - duh. i cant believe i didnt even think of that.
im still forgettin...
if you forget tea you still need a lot of time to get used to sin 🙂
twin quest
if you forget tea you still need a lot of time to get used to sin 🙂
still so much to learn.
thank you all, i will get there 🙂
waxen meteor
Does DH break through our cloak (with pvp talent) now?
gleaming pawn
a lot of their damage is chaos, to the point that ret wants spell bop vs them
but I cannot remember if their moves get resisted or have to be dodged
pretty sure the latter, but haven't looked in a long time
waxen meteor
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
waxen meteor
a lot of their damage is chaos, to the point that ret wants spell bop vs them
not really that
our cloak pvp talent no long dodge physical dmg now
even text is updated
did i lose my mind or did it start just this week
gleaming pawn
lose your mind
they nerfed it just before season 4 started
it only removes phys dots now
gleaming pawn
lol
it's only super useful against assa rogues, feral druids, and warriors now
if you don't have those, you can pick something else like control is king
or DFA if you're worried about mages/getting kited
restive pebble
it's similar resource wise, like energy and combo points. but assa is quite a di...
so u think right now with assa being meta, its not similar to ww monk
twin quest
man im really struggling to do damage with the cookie cutter build.
opener:
stealth> cheapshot> tea>shiv> garrote> rupture> mutilate/fan > crimson tempest
then I go into combo point builder > slice&dice>envenom>bleed upkeep
Then for burst I do:
kidney>shadow dance>ambush>deathmark>kingsbane>tea/shiv>ambush>rupture>combo points>crimson tempest
im doing like half of everyone elses damage fairly consistently.
log from a ret/mistweaver 2s
jolly sierra
man im really struggling to do damage with the cookie cutter build.
opener:
ste...
bad bad bad bad bad, never tea on opener
cheap shot> garrote > rupture > shiv > shadow dance + use trinket + kingsbane > mutilate > envenom
twin quest
cheap shot> garrote > rupture > shiv > shadow dance + use trinket + kingsbane > ...
ty 🙂 i will practice with this.
jolly sierra
ty 🙂 i will practice with this.
garrote > fan of knives/mutilate > rupture > fan of knives/mutilate till 5 CP > kidney > shiv > shadow dance + agi trinket + kingsbane > garrote > spam fan of knives > crimson tempest
if is a caster
steel scarab
OKAY GUYS I DISCOVERED A PVP SECRET
SHUTTING OFF MY PVE WEAKAURA MAKES ME PLAY MUCH BETTER
HOLY SHIT
grave basin
steel scarab
it's very hard to see my debuffs on the shitty base wow nameplate frames but holy shit it's better than staring at my stupid aefnar weakaura set
halcyon timber
Right on man , that’s solid
steel scarab
Holy cow
Very cool
Can't wait to play more tomorrow like this lol
Night fellow rogues
potent pivot
so u think right now with assa being meta, its not similar to ww monk
Not really similar no
It has some very basic similarities, like energy and combo points that I mentioned earlier
But the feel and flow is much different imo
It’s basically a full time maintenance spec
Main goal is to keep your bleeds up on as many targets as possible etc
shy sapphire
hi... it might just be preferences but why some outlaws gear full crit, others full mast and others half crit/mast? are different builds/playstyles?
stoic spruce
Outlaw has no good stats
Just stats not as bad as the others
It's a preference
They also could've been playing other specs and had that gear on
shy sapphire
thats what i was thinking.. that they might be playing assa but wasn't sure
so should I go for crit as the "best" stat?
shy sapphire
yes outlaw, after vers I mean
stoic spruce
Yes, crit
wintry dew
Pvp doods time to wake up
sick wasp
Can recall Whaazz saying that if u wanna minmax some dmg u can actually gem/enchant maste or use some vers/mast gear since after a certain point with BTE giving the crit buff crit loses value
thats probably after u farm all the seasonal epic gear n stuff
vital socket
mastery outlaw is the way
broken otter
So, I'm still pretty ass at Rogue. I just got my ass completely handed to me by an Elemental Shaman in a 1v1 as Subtlety.
I'm just wondering exactly how bad I should feel? Like how hard of a matchup is that for Subtlety?
sick wasp
1v1 is very situational and u shouldnt feel bad at all
also dont call urself names
cant remember what favors most the matchup but in all u should win,especially specced into dust
broken otter
Word. Thank you.
sick wasp
also,never take lightly any specc or anything,even if u know u have the advantage,try being simple
go in with the intent to kill
no playing
sick wasp
very true
surreal barn
Like, if you can’t kill and gouge is about to come off DR
It’s time to gouge and sprint
stoic spruce
Pvp doods time to wake up
RAHHHH
surreal barn
I feel like we should be able to shadowy duel hunter pets as an out lol
sick wasp
i actually blind them casually for resets
but im not rly competitive as a rogue anymore
just a smol tip
they cant roar either
surreal barn
Yup, also a good tip
broken otter
Good tips. Thanks. My issue is I was wayyy too liberal in blowing my CDs, I think. You're right, I used too much trying to maintain pressure, and had nothing left to reset.
Anyways, I just took a pizza out of the oven. So, I'm about to have greasy hands and won't be able to read Discord for a bit.
But thanks for the feedback guys :D
surreal barn
I’m still looking for this one pizza place I went to 14 years ago in nyc drunk
Every time I go I spend a couple hours searching, never find it
broken otter
It was pepperoni, but unfortunately it was Digiornos. While pepperoni grease usually adds good flavor to the pizza, Digiornos pepperoni grease tastes like hotdog water. Lol.
And the only pizza place within 1 hours drive of me is Pizza Hut.
I used to live just north of Philadelphia, - had great pizza options. Ever since I moved to Bumblefuck, the pickings have been slim. :<
sick wasp
im actually making my own pizza,jsut buying good cheese and pepperoni and rest is on me
always making some ''reserves'' that hit the freezer for special ocassions
broken otter
That does sound nice
sick wasp
sometimes i put ham or or bacon but rarely
broken otter
I can't do ham
sick wasp
when AWC is going live i make sure to put pizza in the over and grab a beer
watching the entire thing
always
broken otter
bacon less and less so nowadays. Just because it has that ham taste to me now
Nothing against eating pork. Just that ham taste I cant do
dont know what else to call it but that "ham taste" lolo
sick wasp
its preference whatever u love my man
broken otter
honestly, grilled chicken
sick wasp
sounds cool
broken otter
love grilled chicken slices on my pizza
sick wasp
my gf tries that all the time,but not grilled,she actually likes turkey
broken otter
That does sound dank
wintry dew
I have absolutely no idea, i just wanted to chat LOL
grave basin
who else #poor and wont have beta access tmr
im gonna be watching from the sidelines
wintry dew
I'm not poor but i do indeed think there's no need for me to beta test
grave basin
i flagged my acct for beta too
sick wasp
ill play the F out of cookie
grave basin
but i doubt theyre gonna give it as liberally as DF beta
sick wasp
epic version accounts
grave basin
when theres a literal paywall for it now
sick wasp
its 89.99Euro iirc
thats almost twice the value
which means u live somewhere...
hmm
Canada?
grave basin
oh wait
its already in local currency when it shows in my shop
i thought that's usD
sick wasp
sick wasp
trying to guess where u live
ye idk,if u dont have any issues go for it
ive got paid extra from work and i had the money ez
surreal barn
Man if they gave out titles for finding bugs
sick wasp
going balls deep
surreal barn
They wouldn’t have to work at all
sick wasp
yup
wanton breach
Man if they gave out titles for finding bugs
that would be too smart
sick wasp
not that even if they do there want be ppl that will find ways to break the game eventually
rogues are famous for that
surreal barn
im gonna test stuff in beta pve and pvp
Good, report back
Cause I’m not downloading it this go around
wanton breach
not that even if they do there want be ppl that will find ways to break the game...
imagine having to actually fix that stuff
sick wasp
Cause I’m not downloading it this go around
gonna start from sin then move to outlaw and last sub probably,unless deathstalker gets fixed soon
wanton breach
big part of corpo is that there is no problem if you don't recognise it
sick wasp
will come with info when available
surreal barn
I mean deathstalker is supposed to be sin as well
sick wasp
yeah but fatebound works as well
surreal barn
Which one do you think will be the right pick
sick wasp
for pvp i think hands down deathstalker for dmg
utility and cheese fatebound but the rng nature doesnt favor it
for pvp
surreal barn
You don’t like holding a bag of coins to flip?
sick wasp
idk man,i like everything,it just doesnt fit rn
its kinda of a mess but will see
just finished my 2nd monster,feeling hyper active now
😅
wanton breach
go and do all the beta testing
gleaming pawn
Does that mean I was selected
grave basin
beta is partly fun cause EU and NA all get to experience the same laggy as fuq server
surreal barn
Mine looks that way
surreal barn
Looks like we got it
quartz ferry
ive seen people craft different helmets for assa and not sure which is the best, anyone help?
wintry dew
Life bound / eng with mastery I believe are solid choices
quartz ferry
cool ty
jolly sierra
can you believe earthen doesnt have any kind of defensives against poisons or bleeds?
wintry dew
Weird right? XD
gleaming pawn
Yeah that makes no sense at all, other than not wanting to do stoneform++ again
jolly sierra
seems like
loud ember
I got a question for ass rogues, do we cook for the 4 piece bonus this season? or should I leave it at 2
jolly sierra
2
loud ember
yeah that makes sense
lot of mastery left on the table for something that doesn't seem super good
wintry dew
also the 4set does very shitty damage cuz enemies are mostly packed
Saw tier sets already?
We cooking
Assa being the good old assa
wintry dew
Yep
jolly sierra
however i think we can play well without it
but u are start to feeling incomplete
xdd
if they fixes deathstalker ambushes to work w blindside i think could be a deal
cuz its a nonsense if u are forced to vanish or hard restealth to apply it
wintry dew
Yep, if it worked with blindside it would be so good
jolly sierra
lets see if feedback is heard
is just that wording the thing would fix the entire tree for good
wintry dew
Let's trust Whispyr and the whole feedback system
jolly sierra
hope so for just 1 time xdd
do u have the roasting he did in wowhead?
i wanna read it
jolly sierra
O O F
jolly sierra
yes
quaint cedar
What do we all think of the trickster changes?
safe pelican
You will join the dark side in the new chapter you won’t have a choice outlaw gunna be even more mid & no dance for Assass is just petty. That’s a major part of the specs pressure applying CC’s while forcing bleeds.
jolly sierra
https://www.wowhead.com/news/assassination-rogue-review-of-deathstalker-hero-tal...
fair, i really hated s2 assa tier tbh
steel scarab
Yikes Deathstalker looks bad
Anyone have a link to the other trees? lol
2800, amazing D:
steel scarab
Navigating Wowhead is a mess because there are literally 10 versions of this game out
But thank you, that helps!
tribal badger
yup, figured id screenshot the exact location for u cause wowhead is a mess during beta times
np
steel scarab
Man that talent in the Fatebound tree sucks. Tempted Fate
Assuming we have a 40% critrate, which currently is very difficult to achieve without massively sacrificing our more important stats
(in PvP)
That's a 40% chance to mitigate 10% of incoming damage.
That means, 60% of the time, the talent will just do nothing. And 40% of the time, it will mitigate 1/10 of the incoming damage.
That seems abysmal
wintry dew
You surely didnt see deathstalker
gleaming pawn
Spoiler alert: all of the rogue trees are pure hot garbage
surreal barn
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/871188656357015623/1248027227598098462/im...
Fuck nice job
potent pivot
You will join the dark side in the new chapter you won’t have a choice outlaw gu...
assa has been quite good in the past without having Dance. it'll all come down to tuning in the end.
quaint cedar
All specs are getting 6 sec subterfuge and 2 charges of vanish so it's not like stealth stuff is just going away
jolly sierra
the problem is the cooldown issue with dance
jolly sierra
1m is very good for a burst, but 2m from vanish is a little troublesome unless they add something which reduces vanish CD, like in sub
steel scarab
Also that Iron Wire is 100x less good without Dance
Which is, IMO, a defining feature of the spec
Iron Wire with no Dance is like Subterfuge and Master Assassin with no Dance
They're all far worse talents
jolly sierra
we used iron wire normally even without shadow dance, that is not really an issue
the problem is we lose our best burst window if we are stripped from shadow dance
gleaming pawn
Dang, all these rogues that don’t know how to play without Dance. As if that’s not how Assa/Outlaw have always been before DF
spring bough
is dance gone for both of those spec now? awesome one less button to press
gleaming pawn
Assa will just go back to fully being a sustain/rot spec
Instead of having extra burst from dance+kb
jolly sierra
the problem there is we played without it pre rework
after rework seemed more useful with KB
but we had DTB pre nerf too
so wasnt some kind of issue
gleaming pawn
Hell just look at the assa set bonuses for s1 to get an idea of how the devs want you to play
jolly sierra
the usual
so we needed to pick back SBS too, oh wait
we havent it anymore as button
spring bough
heres a crazy idea. how about no more shadowland remnant spells lol
jolly sierra
shadowlands cov spells are fine
gleaming pawn
SBS change is great though, loads of combo points when you rupture. SBS never felt good to press, ever
gleaming pawn
You liked the cp it gave you, that’s it
gleaming pawn
It’s always been a slow clunky ability
gleaming pawn
yes
you can only apply them via ambush as Sin
and there's a bug right now where if you don't have subterfuge you can't apply them at all
and the duration of the mark is quite low, so it will expire if you aren't super actively trying to spend them for the capstone
it's such a garbage tree
like I fear people think that hyperbole and don't take it seriously, but Deathstalker is a tree in a pre-alpha state and will be a dead tree without a massive overhaul
tribal badger
well its not a bug right, the mark literally states you can only apply them with ambushes out of stealth
the two ways to apply them are ambushing out of stealth, or consuming all ur previous marks to proc ur capstone
tribal badger
ah ok well that is definitly a bug, but its not like non stealth ambushes will be able to apply it anyway
its pretty bad
halcyon timber
stuff broke from alpha to beta. Happens.
gleaming pawn
nah it's been broken since the alpha 🙂
a bug is a bug, just indicative of the state of deathstalker
halcyon timber
It will be fixed when it is fixed. No need to doom extra.
Feint had its advantages but this works well too.
gleaming pawn
when they replace unseen blade triggering from feint, it will be a decent tree
nothing spectacular but inoffensive
halcyon timber
Already is man
grave basin
Has that not been fixed ?
grave basin
Is it less ass
surreal barn
Don’t worry fellas
surreal barn
We all need to just roll the most OP specs on this beta
halcyon timber
Works like how it did on alpha, just no aoe component
surreal barn
And absolutely smash every rogue
halcyon timber
Get stacks of cdg fast and crank em out
grave basin
Usually you don't wanna be broken Op on beta
halcyon timber
Terrible mentality
grave basin
Cause you will have a huge target on your back
halcyon timber
Agreed, god forbid we weren’t based on gimmicky cds like a bunch of cultists want constantly
halcyon timber
Enhance can crank don’t believe their propaganda
grave basin
halcyon timber
Storm cloud crap can smoke people places and things
grave basin
Yea but they were omega immortal broken in last beta and got nuked going into s1
Just recapping history
grave basin
Bigdam
grave basin
How does trickster feel for outlaw though
halcyon timber
Stacks fast and you hit hard dunno what else people want without sounding like the wailing caverns in here
All talents can be used and you can emphasize different shit instead of being heavily encouraged to 1 way . Some creativity is required
sick wasp
Rogue
Subtlety
Rupture damage is now increased by 15% in PvP combat.
Backstab damage is now increased by 45% in PvP combat (was 30%).
Gloomblade damage is now increased by 45% in PvP combat (was 30%).
grave basin
Changes nothing
waxen meteor
yeah
buffs for things that doesn't do anything
rupture dmg is alright
but 15% of backstab/gloomblade is...
meh
dapper chasm
I listen, I hear things
"spec that doesnt deserve it"
"specs aren't hard, rogue as a class just is"
I hear the snivelling quips of children who wish they could be men
wintry dew
sick wasp
pastel burrow
with that jackal you're the only person in this discord that's ever spoken a lick of sense
wintry dew
I second that
dapper chasm
last jasper
Omg. Finally
twin quest
odd request, can someone do their bursty opener on a target dummy for ~30 seconds and send me the details breakdown? pls ty ❤️. i'm just looking to see what the average damage spread is to make sure i'm buffing my bleeds properly.
grave basin
you dont realy burst for 30 seconds
more like 15
which is the entire duration of your KB
this is with 2x shiv during the KB window and i stopped details after KB and DM fades
verbal pollen
bruh what is this garbo interaction in the beta between deathstalker and sub rogue for pvp just makes no sense q.q
grave basin
A lot of people don't have beta
You're gonna need to explain why it's garbo
If you're referring to DS sub not being able to use all the deathstalker marks then yea
That's clearly gonna get fixed
grave basin
There's no chance that makes it to live
verbal pollen
in PvE makes a lot of sense in boss encounters but in pvp is just garbo
grave basin
They just sorta redid trickster so give some time for DS
verbal pollen
yea time to wait
grave basin
in PvE makes a lot of sense in boss encounters but in pvp is just garbo
It doesn't make sense in pve either
So that's how you know it's gonna for sure get fixed
plucky escarp
was just playing with a balance druid and resto shaman as an assa rogue. they told me not to cheap shot people and I can't figure out why
am I missing something?
wintry dew
After that statement, braincells due to how good they are
(not)
If you don't cheap, you're depending on them to stun and a) shaman stun can be countered and b) do druids open with stealth stun?
If they don't want you to cheap and just stun with kidney, how safe can you be opening on the enemy team with just garrote
plucky escarp
they were "mglads" in lfg.
so idk. they kept saying I was playing like a sub rogue and remove cheap shot from my bars
wintry dew
They could have pointed out what in specific you were doing wrong
Too many restealths into cheapshot?
Hit and run?
surreal barn
they were "mglads" in lfg.
Tell them to mglad deez nuts
waxen meteor
they were "mglads" in lfg.
If you do too much reset, i can understand in a way. but i fail to see why it's related to cs
gleaming pawn
“Mglads” telling a rogue to stop stunning things is certainly a take
jolly sierra
dont cheap shot trust me im a glad
i remember a MW being angry af w me cuz i was cceing way too much
dude i was making u win
if a guy tell u to stop cceing then something is wrong w them
plucky escarp
Yeah, I mean, I can always play better. It was just of all the feedback I've gotten in LFG that was the weirdest.
and it was so confusing to me I figured I'd ask if I was missing something
they also told me not to play wound poison
which, I also didn't understand lol given I don't think we'd have any ms then
they said, "assa always plays deadly poison"
jolly sierra
At a renn faire
sl s2 glads
jolly sierra
they said, "assa always plays deadly poison"
alright they are boosted
no rational player would say u that
gleaming pawn
and it was so confusing to me I figured I'd ask if I was missing something
They basically said “stop doing the only reason you’re here”
slender bay
New Rogue here, how do we break roots? Or we cant?
wintry dew
they said, "assa always plays deadly poison"
WHAT
wintry dew
New Rogue here, how do we break roots? Or we cant?
cloak of shadows OR vanish
worthy crag
wintry dew
you must be friends with hyper
slender bay
cloak of shadows OR vanish
What I feared, I don't think it's worth much unless they're going to shoot me down... I'm used to the monk's sprint taking them out, but I see that with the rogue I'll have to better weigh the risk and reward.
wintry dew
most roots also break when taking a certain amount of dmg
slender bay
Mage ice thing breaks on damage?
wintry dew
let me edit that
slender bay
Might not be intended but void elf racial removes roots
Lol i play undead btw
surreal barn
Yeah I hate that my hunter is a void elf
Constantly getting whispered “reported” for using the teleport
One day, I’ll probably get banned for it
jolly sierra
how tf does work that teleport?
wintry dew
You send a "shadow" onwards
then you click the ability again to teleport there
like Zed shadow in league
tough spruce
I made a weakaura for it
Do you play around sanguine blades? I tend not to pay attention to it but maybe I should
surreal barn
and ppl thinks that thing is a hack lol
Yeah I’ll disengage one way and if the end up catching me I’ll activate the teleport lol
And at that point I’m on the other side of the map
surreal barn
Gotta look between the cheeks
dapper chasm
All I see is shit
surreal barn
Then you’re looking in the right area
twin quest
thank you for this! I'm mainly just looking to see what the raw weight each spell should be at. my garrote is consistently at the same % as my rupture for some reason. and my sanguine blades used to be nonexistent. so I definitely think Zeiss' comment helped me out a bit.
ty
im starting to do muchbetter thanks to everyones advice on here. so ty again.
my adhd prevents me from watching youtube guides so its nice to just get answers to my one-off questions. lmfao
wintry dew
Please keep in mind this is a dummy scenario
twin quest
Please keep in mind this is a dummy scenario
yeah for sure. im still at the stage where if i get disarmed i scream and stand there.
xD
wintry dew
That does check out
heheh
Anyway
I don't think it hurts if i say:
- Please look at your toolkit as individual skills that are connected via talents/tierset/interactions and not by "I must press this buttons all together for some reason to deal dmg"
Understanding your kit helps you in cases like the one you just mentioned, being disarmed
twin quest
I don't think it hurts if i say:
- Please look at your toolkit as individual ski...
yes. exactly this ty. i'm still getting lightbulbs when i make the connection that talent X buffs talent Y which makes ability Z do more damage
wintry dew
Once you have most of that figured you'll see how much more simple the rotation itself is and what can you do to respond to X thing that happened
twin quest
i'm coming from 10 years of DK, 5 years of healing, and some DH. Rogue is not only a totally different playstyle, but a totally different mindset.
twin quest
it doesn't help that my platform for learning is 2s with an enhance shaman XD. would probably learn better in 3s 😛
gleaming pawn
We are not purely zugzug
How dare you, the zugzug has always been on our hearts
wintry dew
But not on our keyboards
jolly sierra
we play mindgames as rogues LOL
we are not talented into that
wintry dew
You're fucking right
hexed pollen
shock build so fun in bgs/rbgs
waxen meteor
did a 410k kb first hit lol
high gulch
I did some world pvp today and got bounty title. No one could run from me muwahahaha
I'm starting to get better at holding my own in 1v1s on sub. The mindset is all coming back to me
sleek bluff
Been playing Outlaw in SS. Haven't really checked in with the community on how it's performing. Any thoughts? I can't seem to ever get close to topping a damage meter, but I am having a good time with the control
grave basin
Outlaw isn't too hot ATM but it just depends on what you enjoy
You have really good control but depend on your team mate to close the game since you basically have 0 burst
potent pivot
Does that really not matter re: damage?
the difference is pretty tiny, but dagger is technically better
sleek bluff
And I guess it helps gear me for assassination
merry pewter
why are there no good guides for pvp sub rogue?
and I'm talking about an advanced detailed guide. for example, if my mastery is at 115% and vers is at 31% should I continue to get mastery items or vers or maybe crit?
is it worth going for the 4 tiet set with less mastery and vers, but gaining the bonuses?
with 4 tier set items, I gain bonuses and increase my crit from 20% to 26%, but I also a decent amount of mastery and vers
waxen meteor
and I'm talking about an advanced detailed guide. for example, if my mastery is ...
PvP in general does not have such guide
it's not linked to sub or rogue or whatever spec/class
your dmg output cannot be easily simulated because of all the CCs
it's mostly just 'by your feeling'
merry pewter
Interesting, I think it would at least be nice to have a collective guide of how most sub rogues "feel" about some items and setup
waxen meteor
sub is super unique in wow pvp
in general, we here prefers to run 2 tier and max mastery
when you use tea build -> some prefers to get some crit
when you are not using tea build -> most prefers to go full mastery
regardless, btm line is do the correct setup and max your burst at go
merry pewter
gotcha, I do use the tea build with sepsis and secret tech
so sounds like I should aim for max mastery and ignore crit and vers?
I also feel like the 20% increased dmg of shadow clones is nice when having the 4 tier set, but I guess I need to try both
this is what I currently have https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/fenris/blinkx I would appreciate any tips! I just started playing 2 months ago 😄
twin quest
ahhh all of my games still look like this
lucid citrus
Looks right to me
waxen meteor
ahhh all of my games still look like this
what is this? 2s
you are with enchant playing double dps?
twin quest
ye
waxen meteor
i mean...
twin quest
he's always the focus. i feel like my damage should be way higher
they literally never fight me
waxen meteor
your team is just for fun ...
sin dmg is very average in 2s
our dmg is good at 3s this season basically due to use of CT
and CT doesn't work well in 2s
unless you playing against pet classes
bm/demo etc.
tbh, if ret/priest loses to sin+enchant, they have a big issue...
grave basin
Seems low even for twos
Are you using your imp garrotes on both healer and DPS?
Keeping up rupture ?
Using vanish / meld to extend imp garrote ?
Kingsbane with badge and dance up?
Shiving at all?
fallen scaffold
what specs do i take veil of midnight against? hunters, warriors, feral, rogues.... what about monk and dk? do i take against dh even?
potent pivot
and I'm talking about an advanced detailed guide. for example, if my mastery is ...
in general it's like Tarny said, you can't sim for pvp so no one actually knows what % of stats is for sure best
there are decent enough guides on iceyveins etc, and using sites like murlok.io you can see what the majority of players are running
that's about as deep as you can get when it comes to pvp
potent pivot
so sounds like I should aim for max mastery and ignore crit and vers?
should never ignore vers in pvp, that's your #1 stat
potent pivot
This is the community we love
seems like blizzard had good reasons for not listening to community feedback all along
wintry dew
When they do, rogues are kicked in the nuts
frank ravine
dapper chasm
this is what I currently have https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/charact...
I'm curious, what brings a new player to WoW?
neat dove
switched a talent around since they buffed sub rupture by 15% in pvp and honestly its kinda good (am low rank though)
BUQAcWb37Z8KXj8LlE1rTPXfsBAkAAAAAAASLJJlEBp0EhIikkkkkIlIRSpEJIhISKRAAAAIBA
took out "The first dance" for "Replicating Shadows" and feels like im doing as much bleed dmg as assassin
surreal barn
@sick wasp Think we will be able to swap hero specs between shuffles in TWW?
Some have really different gameplay
sick wasp
Some have really different gameplay
idk man,could be the case ye why not
but that might be for later seasons
ive been testing sin
holysht those envenoms hit hard
surreal barn
Like evoker swapping to and from mass disintegrate between each battle seems kinda nuts
Wondering if they shouldn’t just lock it down
sick wasp
yeah it will be very crazy
sick wasp
i think sub trickster is the play
surreal barn
Interesting
sick wasp
absolutely mindfking
loud ember
i can't wait to play ass in tww 
grave basin
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/s/UGkBR3z3U1
dont think ive seen a single positive rogue post on reddit
in the history of reddit
wintry dew
Same
vocal surge
Honestly, Fatebound is really good
Trickster's rework is not good at all
I imagine the older version is far smoother however
and really fleshed out
Personal take but I honestly think people are too focused on getting bigger numbers and forget the Devs can change the damage value of abilities and their interactions in the base kit alone. While Trickster looked bad at first glance before the rework, it looked like you were able to maintain health about of stacks and when playing the Beta, Main Gauche for Outlaw was doing really really solid damage. As far as Fatebound goes, its also buttery smooth. It's has a lot of potential to enable gameplay change dynamic
halcyon timber
Deathstalker will get a look at as well with the mark. The unnecessary dooming and childish antics because of self driven disappointment and ridiculous expectations can shove it. The devs made a balanced series of trees without relying in dumb crap. Its good.
I definitely preferred trickster as it is very much a thief playstyle both trickster and deathstalker do the same damage on finishers . The corrupt the blood talent on DS does do a lot singular focus is pretty slick too. I also appreciate flensing knives and surprising strikes as the abysmally low lows needs to get outta here. Its time to get more of the past instead of fixating only on dance. They did a good job with balance. CdG from trickster and Darkest Night from DS both crank. When they get around to changing the mark then it will be pretty heckin nasty.
halcyon timber
Trickster's rework is not good at all
Well this is before we had a very clear visual queue from Thousand cuts and now it technically “is the same “ except disorienting strikes (new) is resetting the cd and doesn’t aoe. We would need to sit down and write down how many occurrence are happening now. The animation is still there for when it goes off, its just we don’t have the feint trigger x2 and secret technique and killing spree aren’t triggering what they are supposed to (broke between alpha moving into beta. It happens and will
Be fixed)
quaint cedar
Personal take but I honestly think people are too focused on getting bigger numb...
Yeah I honestly do not understand the hate for fatebound. It's by far my favorite tree just based off of the design. Visuals are a bit lame but I care more about the gameplay. I really wish I had beta to test it myself. I'm just unsure I want to buy TWW yet. Too early for me to tell.
quaint cedar
You have beta I assume?
How is energy? That's been my biggest concern so far.
Also have you tested HO too or just SS builds?
Glad to hear that fatebound feels good
vocal surge
Yeah
It's pretty good
For some builds, energy is an issue
but energy isn't an issue from how it's going so far
quaint cedar
Ok cool. Which builds have you tried so far?
wintry dew
It can't be trickster but
It can be fatebound and deathstalker
Every spec has 2 choices
nova wren
what do y'all think, in cata classic, should I enchant my weap with hurricane for haste buff or with berserking for attack power when I don't yet want to pay 16k for landslide 😂
wintry dew
Although this is not the discord for classic stuff, do you already have the anti disarm one?
nova wren
Although this is not the discord for classic stuff, do you already have the anti...
ah my bad, was wondering can I ask here as it's for pvp or in classic discussion, but yeah I have anti disarm on my offhand yea
wintry dew
I'd love to help but I really don't know
nova wren
Is oki, maybe i'll post this question on classic-discussion ^^
wintry dew
Is oki, maybe i'll post this question on classic-discussion ^^
There are discord links on #classic-discussion pins, check those out aswell
dapper chasm
I have no idea why blizzard spends so long on a system 99% of people lock-and-forget
I'd rather they start pruning stupid buttons and tighten up the UI
vocal surge
Ok cool. Which builds have you tried so far?
Been running a Sinister Strike build, lemme copy n paste
left frigate
yo, should i do the calls for the gos all the time? if yes, why?
halcyon timber
Rogues determine the pace and create opportunities and it the teams job to respond appropriately
left frigate
aaahhh, is there a reason why? bc i play most of the time thug cleave and i think its waaayy easier when the hunter says he has trap and we can make a go
halcyon timber
You can also turn a situation around ie warlock fearing a target with not dots active can lead into a gouge / sap etc so you can shift and adapt which creates 2v3s
Because teams that play around their rogue are filthy and a rogues drs are far more important than zug classes drs
left frigate
thank u so much for the fast awnsers
halcyon timber
No sweat man, have a good time and stay at it
surreal barn
I'd rather they start pruning stupid buttons and tighten up the UI
I’m down with this
halcyon timber
We aren’t going back to the old ways as we were distinctly told but a nudge in that direction is definitely appropriate and should be it moving forward instead of hyperfixation on 1 aspect
high gulch
That's dumb
gleaming pawn
It’s really not, since Vault track is going away it will be nice qol getting more conq
jolly sierra
is not
high gulch
But why take away vault?
gleaming pawn
Because Delves are replacing it, and pvp players have always complained about the randomness in getting their gear
Now PvP gearing is 100% deterministic, you earn conq and buy the pieces you want
high gulch
K
gleaming pawn
Instead of going 3 weeks in a row seeing the same shit trinkets or off stats for the pieces you want in your vault
high gulch
I barely saw an increase though how does it make a big difference
gleaming pawn
It’s not a big increase in your per win amount, but the cap is higher and they could have easily just not increased anything and you’d take months to gear up instead
The increases are there to offset not having the ability to get lucky from vault
waxen meteor
Oh that makes pve+pvp at same time much easier
high gulch
K
waxen meteor
Do we know if war within s1 has legendary items yet?
spring bough
2 back to back sin lobbies
almost 200k dps lol
this thing can pump lol
63k garrote ticks are pretty nice right? lol
sharp sierra
Ouuuufff. Rogue just became even harder to play by removing the 3y melee range talent lol
Did i also hear this correctly. Stealth will no longer be available to outlaw
If they actually removed stealth from outlaw then lolz
wintry dew
?
wintry dew
Did i also hear this correctly. Stealth will no longer be available to outlaw
Can you source this information?
gleaming pawn
I do believe the source is his butt, because that’s some bullshit
stoic spruce
You misunderstood
sharp sierra
Thank god
Im like how is that still r0gue then
Imagine if every cpass had access to spectral sight
Class*
Is the shadowsight buff also including camouflage and mage invis?
The red outline through walls
stoic spruce
That'd be cool
It'd gut sub and that's what matters
True hatred comes from understanding
halcyon timber
Yes , shadowsight reveals all forms of concealment.
stoic spruce
Eri said "I'm just going to ignore popo"
high gulch
Is bloody token gear worth getting over honor
jolly sierra
doesnt matter tho, conquest gear is the thing which matters unless u are getting bloddy token epic stuff with trophies of strife
merry pewter
I'm curious, what brings a new player to WoW?
Well, I played WoW a little bit 15 years ago (I didn't know what I was doing back then and never took it to the end), and a couple of months ago, my co-worker was talking about WoW and how he's been playing for many years which brought back the memories of playing Rogue and made me come back lol
plucky escarp
Well, I played WoW a little bit 15 years ago (I didn't know what I was doing bac...
I’m 36. Never played wow. All of my mates did since vanilla. Finally, they convinced me to play in SL. I’ve been addicted to arenas ever since
merry pewter
That's all I do haha! pvp arenas
plucky escarp
Arenas are the best. There isn’t anything else like it, unfortunately
twin quest
when i'm getting to 50 energy, i feel so defeated. what can i do to maintain high energy?
stoic spruce
Trickz im so hyped for TWW outlaw
potent pivot
when i'm getting to 50 energy, i feel so defeated. what can i do to maintain hig...
keeping bleeds up on multiple targets will get you energy fast
potent pivot
Trickz im so hyped for TWW outlaw
whys that
stoic spruce
imagine
multiple viable builds
and
thats it
but thats still cool
im an outlaw tea gamer
I cant wait to find the stats we need and let the baby outlaw gamers in on the tech
and then they ping shade and he says the same thing
I wonder if he'll make a guide actually
dapper chasm
Well, I played WoW a little bit 15 years ago (I didn't know what I was doing bac...
So old men are dragging the youth down as they drown
stoic spruce
So old men are dragging the youth down as they drown
hi
dapper chasm
stoic spruce
I love you too <3
sick wasp
i think from the little ive tested on beta
Trickster Sub is kinda nuts
Sub can now bait cds so hard its unreal
if u get distracted u could die
i also like the sectech into coupdegrace finishers tech
they can never predict when its coming
there is also the gloomblade aspect of sub which wins ground the way i see it
might be wrong,might be right
but sub looks rly interesting as far as pvp goes
Ill try outlaw but it feels like sht
outlaw feels rly bad now,idk why
sick wasp
idk man,i think outlaw is gonna fall behind Sub mainly and Sin secondary
Sub right now,might have some nodes that need to be moved but it looks very very good combined with trickster
stoic spruce
yeah probably
sick wasp
Sin Fatebound has consistent bleed dmg that follows the DF playstyle but also has the brute-force-you-down with unhealable dmg and poisons thing
those envenoms man
HOLYFUCK
they hit hard
quaint cedar
Idk seems like outlaw starts every expac in a rough spot in pvp and then eventually gets better
Hoping it will be different this time and actually have a good first season. Would be nice to be viable in the most active and inflated season of the expansion instead of at the end when no one cares anymore and ladder is dead
Fatebound outlaw seems pretty strong at least from what I've gathered from others. The tails coin flip does a lot of damage and it's magic damage so gives us a bit of armor penetration back
wintry dew
they hit hard
keep in mind numbers are not final
quaint cedar
Yeah
wintry dew
and will most likely be tuned
grave basin
Any1 remember DF beta enhance shamans
wintry dew
BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
grave basin
Wew lad
quaint cedar
Numbers don't really matter much at this stage
sick wasp
keep in mind numbers are not final
yup
quaint cedar
I'm just happy to have some kind of significant magic damage on outlaw so I can stop getting fucked by plate
sick wasp
Fatebound outlaw seems pretty strong at least from what I've gathered from other...
many things have to change for outlaw to be considered a choice in TWW
like srs stuff
tree cooking etc
quaint cedar
Like?
sick wasp
for starters it lost the ability to dance
quaint cedar
Yeah but it has 2 vanishes with 6 sec subterfuge
sick wasp
that means it lost the biggest strength a rogue spec could have with restless blades
its not enough
quaint cedar
And vanish has CDR
wintry dew
Yeah but it has 2 vanishes with 6 sec subterfuge
2 vanish charges = 1 more vanish per arena
instead of multiple shadowdances per arena
quaint cedar
You can say the same about assa but you all are hyping that up. Outlaw will have more stealth than assa and less than sub
Which makes sense
sick wasp
Sin has way more dmg than outlaw though
quaint cedar
CDR
wintry dew
You got me there
quaint cedar
You can farm vanish back faster on outlaw
wintry dew
Yeah your point is correct
sick wasp
u cant if u cant set up stuff with dance anymore
they run u down
and u dont have dmg
look the bigger picture
its not about vanish
quaint cedar
Why do you care about damage numbers in beta? Like that's not even a part of the conversation right now
sick wasp
its not only about numbers but ye
numbers always matter
sub right now
just by the little weve seen
quaint cedar
Outlaw is tankier than assa anyways. All of what your saying applies to assa too. You are saying only sub is viable?
quaint cedar
Yeah but that's going to change....
sick wasp
maybe
quaint cedar
Numbers tuning hasn't been done at all
sick wasp
yeah pretty much
but its not only about the numbers its like
outlaw doesnt rly function now
sin has a flow,it functions as a spec
outlaw doesnt
quaint cedar
Are you using haste?
wintry dew
i thought fatebound/trickester were working really well
quaint cedar
i thought fatebound/trickester were working really well
Yeah that's what I've heard. I don't have beta to confirm myself though
wintry dew
imagine outlaw needing haste now, just goes against everything DF cooked
sick wasp
it looks grim the way it is
quaint cedar
For some reason we went full haste in SL. Never really understood why
wintry dew
i truly hope Assassination remains the "any stats good overall" class (mainly PvE)
sick wasp
i think sin will need some crit
quaint cedar
The truth is that outlaw's secondaries just suck in general
wintry dew
versa mastery and call it a day
sick wasp
unless we discover stuff and moves to another direction
wintry dew
:3
quaint cedar
I don't see any reason why assa or sub secondaries would change
Pretty sure you're still going to want vers mastery
sick wasp
some,not stacking endlessly
we will see
its not like some specs who funciton with jsut haste/vers
or vers/mast for that matter
quaint cedar
Well sub pretty much has to full stack mastery.
Crit is still nerfed to my knowledge so no reason to go it
Only reason outlaw is going crit in S3/4 is because of crackshot. BTE has 4x crit damage which makes crit worth it. No one else is playing crit anymore except hpal I think
sick wasp
think sub might go crit/vers if into gloomblade tech
quaint cedar
No shot assa goes crit in TWW imo unless crit gets unnerfed
sick wasp
havent rly rly test it yet but will see
quaint cedar
lol I seriously doubt that but I'm not closely following sub so idk for sure
sick wasp
ye u would wanna crit that vanish=>strike
quaint cedar
Crit is just such a bad stat in pvp now
sick wasp
and its fun how sub works now
there is no parry mechanic for it
sht looks nuts
can trade blows with a tank now
face to face
quaint cedar
Oh you talking the fazed debuff stopping parries?
sick wasp
ye..
quaint cedar
Yeah that's pretty cool
sick wasp
that pretty much can enable gloomblade brawling of some short
into some rotten tech
idk
quaint cedar
I'm leaning more towards fatebound for my spec but I might go trickster against stuff that can parry me. Tanks and WW mainly, maybe arms too
quaint cedar
That makes no sense at all
You only say that because it's the outlaw tree. Everyone hates on outlaw for no reason lol
sick wasp
no one rly hates on outlaw
lol
i main outlaw bro
playing rogue for 20 years
hate isnt a thing for me
quaint cedar
How is having 2 grappling hook usages in 3 seconds bad for pvp? Or having magic damage on a pure physical spec? Seems way more enticing to me than trickster