its kosher I promise
#off-topic
pulsar trail
elder patrol
goofy mf
now, been awake for 21 hours
hasty nova
elder patrol
gn oxi
subtle quail
ok I <:Bedge:1051431015643611166> now, been awake for 21 hours
Gn qt
elder patrol
hasty nova
elder patrol
peak solar
I doubt this would ever happen but it is a plausible albeit unlikely scenario if the legal toxicity limit was lowered substantially
I would love proper public transportation though I fucking hate planes gimme high speed trains
elder patrol
brazen eagle
npc meta is one of the worse things
elder patrol
ye
slim epoch
bring back shame
someone let the feet people out of their dungeon and now its been worse for everyone ever since
waxen latch
that has to be the dumbest shit i have read this week
and i frequent spec channels
native flower
elder patrol
wdym bring back,never left
elder patrol
glad panther
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1097286953268949073/1144815367701659678...
About to send you into glizzy overdrive on god
elder patrol
glad panther
peak solar
waxen latch
a bit hot innit?
undone bone
good thing the places that burn in spain is already krangled
elder patrol
dont worry its prolly yearly
can see fire destroy houses every year
and no rain in sight
peak solar
elder patrol
future water war
peak solar
If it gets to a point where we got no water I’m out
peak solar
Gonna kamikaze some ceos in game and take long nap
elder patrol
If it gets to a point where we got no water I’m out
aye I'll bow out
peak solar
I’ve had to ration water before and if that becomes normal life sheeesh fuckouttahere fr
timber thunder
!8 is waiting for half an hour to buy fresh bread a good idea??
hollow ravenBOT
maybe?!
timber thunder
elder patrol
!pf
hollow ravenBOT
hollow ravenBOT
elder patrol
timber thunder
Oh boy
wanton wadi
Mage
timber thunder
Here comes the daily windwalker thread
timber thunder
Yea
timber thunder
nothing wrong with having that discussion
Scroll a bit further, they want rogues to get a soothe
raw python
true except he picked the wrong spec to sac
wanton wadi
Outlaw pistol spec trueing
brazen eagle
i mentioned this yesterday in #wow-general
this is a common complaint
"can we just remove snd"
raw python
wanton wadi
Barely any weaving involved unless ur an OL
brazen eagle
assassination ignores it pmuch
subtlety maintains it but its slightly less effort because of premed
iirc one or two casts less
over a fight compared to outlaw
wanton wadi
I do miss my 30 min SnDs
timber thunder
Give outlaw a party-wide snd
brazen eagle
i think it is interessting
because i am not even sure if rogue utility is that high
timber thunder
It was high
brazen eagle
if it goes to cc
timber thunder
But then it got pretty much nothing during both SL unpruning and DF talent trees
wanton wadi
Truesighting existing in every single pack
brazen eagle
also the single target cc is melee range
wanton wadi
wanton wadi
But we have atrophic
So gg ez no cap on a stack
Seems windwalkers don't like SEF
Should give it to sub instead then
Shadow clone jitsu style
raw python
cant wait to have rogue changes come and then the next raid be full spread cleave focused 
timber thunder
Maybe Distract should have an embedded mind soothe
modest lion
distract should be castable in combat and make everybody deal 10% more damage to them for 10 seconds. dont @ me
wheat onyx
modest lion
still think its ridiculous that the pure-dps class gets defensive raid utility (and a really shitty one at that, all things considered), while like 5 other melee specs all give more dps to the grp
timber thunder
Yeah
modest lion
imagine
wanton wadi
still think its ridiculous that the pure-dps class gets defensive raid utility (...
Could worse
wanton wadi
Could he a hunter
modest lion
then augvoker steps in
casual 10% HP gain and versatility
i mean the fact they got rid of hunters being able to switch between like 20 different utility types is kinda dogshit too
hunter used to just bring whatever raidbuff you didnt have
still think that'd be neat
wanton wadi
Pet buffs
timber thunder
Indeed it would
I remember looking for a tameable stone dog to have access to combat rez
modest lion
ye i mean
idk
so many things wrong with raid utility
fact they removed professions being able to provide them at a lower efficacy is just stupid
wanton wadi
All fun and games till world buffs come back
waxen latch
saying "bring the class, not the player" is their goal now
is the most braindead thing i ever read
like
who can say that
or think that
and think "this is something that people will enjoy"
wanton wadi
Bring the class and the player
modest lion
please gimme back inscription scrolls for int/stam/ap. let alchemists do weapon oils for 3% phys/magic dmg debuff on target. give engi a mass cloaking device for shroud with lower duration and a portal for gateway with a longer cd, etc.
wanton wadi
waxen latch
like
i legit dont understand it
espacily when they are so shity with their group utility shit
modest lion
good ideas from prev expansions that are just abandoned, is one of the saddest things
even smth as simple as fucking fish feasts
would already solve some healer viability issues in m+
cuz suddenly mana wouldnt be a massive concern anymore for some classes
if you can just pop a fishfeast and be full mana in 5sec
modest lion
sure, but mana has always been an issue and one of the reasons pally will remain good, is cuz it just doesnt go oom
waxen latch
keys are a nightmare cus suddenly it all falls appart
modest lion
healers that have to sit down after every 2-3 packs to drink just arent gonna be it
compared to one that can keep blasting dps without downtime
modest lion
classic jb enjoyer
timber thunder
Idk unlimited mana makes healers that can chug through it quickly a lot stronger
wanton wadi
classic jb enjoyer
Never watched JB tbf
modest lion
bring back pylons
its funny how useful pylons were (and kinda made rogue not as good) in legion
waxen latch
the DF version of engi rez is such a joke
modest lion
cuz it replaced shroud
modest lion
and now they finally brought a pylon-thing back but
its so fucking awful
its not even funny
wanton wadi
the DF version of engi rez is such a joke
Engi is a joke
wanton wadi
Imagine having to triangulate ur portal jesus
modest lion
and it rezzes you at 1hp
waxen latch
and you need to use it a couple seconds before you die
waxen latch
and then it wipes you if you dont instantly move
modest lion
2 seconds to move after you accept
waxen latch
xdddddd so quirky
modest lion
or die again cuz you forget
wanton wadi
Was good for trolling during raid tbf
modest lion
its good for showing up-and-coming game designers how your "quirky" idea of a game mechanic is funny once and then godawful for the next 2 years
but ye i mean, engi is still useful. just not because of dragonflight crafts
wanton wadi
Worst part too is that engi is even useless in the dungeon its supposed to be used in
wanton wadi
Do nitro boosts still work?
timber thunder
Wormholes are still good QoL, I assume
modest lion
but ye i mean
professions kind of an afterthought every expac
seems like they always try smth new for the release of an expansion and then forget about it
at least this time they added a handful of new recipes
too bad its a fucking massive pain in the ass to actually acquire them
brazen eagle
rogue clamoring for raid utility since smokebomb was removed
cloak of shadow (and feint) was seen as raid utility in legion
modest lion
that was not due to class design, but encounter design tho
timber thunder
So the game changed around us but we remained almost the same
timber thunder
Just to tick a checkbox
brazen eagle
atrophic was designed to be only on the assassinaiton tree
timber thunder
Outlaw had restless crew
brazen eagle
the change to make it class wide came after input from the community
modest lion
couldve literally made atrophic a 3% damage increase instead of reduction
and it wouldve been a much better talent
timber thunder
But that idea got abandoned pretty soon
brazen eagle
my point isn't how good/bad atrophic is
timber thunder
couldve literally made atrophic a 3% damage increase instead of reduction
That would be interesting
brazen eagle
just that it did not seem like it came from the idea to change the dynamic of raid buffs
modest lion
the change to make it class wide came after input from the community
idk
seemed more like they realized that restless crew was stupid, and that the sub one was kinda non-existant utility, which wouldve assa with the only raid utility of the 3 specs
dunno if id claim the community did that 😄
brazen eagle
i don't refer to one individual or rh
but basically the entire playerbase
a lot of feedback on reddit/from content creators an also on RH was given to make it not specific
modest lion
sure, my point is that the outlaw/sub ones were so fundamentally flawed, that i think even without a single input from the community, we wouldve ended up in this space. thats ofc purely hypothetical
but by the looks of it, the idea was clearly to give each spec individual utility, and then they realized that aint gonna work (and no other class has it that way either) so they just got rid of it
brazen eagle
it could have ended in multiple ways
one of witch would have been that it made it into the game for the first raid
and got changed after seeing that it kind of locks people into a choice
restless crew was, also correct me if i am wrong, named to be not a raid utility spell due to only working on a group
modest lion
the rogue tree had a lot of unique things about it that no other class had, i.e. different point gates, 3-pointers in many places, initially we had like 2 choice nodes across 4 trees, and the fact that raid utility was in spec trees instead of class.
all of those werent present with other classes, and with 10.2 it looks like we've gone back on all of those decisions.
modest lion
restless crew was, also correct me if i am wrong, named to be not a raid utility...
thats still raid utility, unless you think windfury isnt raid utility either 
brazen eagle
subtlety had no raid utility to begin with on the tree unless we assume that "movement speed in shroud" is suggestive to that
modest lion
group utility is just a subset of raidutility. all group utility is raid utility for obvious reasons
and since all raid utility works in groups, those are kinda synonymous imo
but i digress
atrophic sucks. dont @ me
or rather, defensive raid utility for a pure dps class sucks. sucks for warlock (although you can make a point that gateway could be dps utility), sucks for us
and obv sucks for hunters not having any
timber thunder
When was the last time we actually got a new cool button, be it a rotational thing or a utility one??
modest lion
dragonflight
we got cool new buttons we had before already but they took it away
assa got kingsbane back, outlaw got dreadblades
timber thunder
Dreadblades were a talent choice since SL
modest lion
sub got sectec. tehcnically they always had it, but it was actually tuned to be a button youd wanna spec into/press
timber thunder
They came in place of SnD
modest lion
being a talent choice and being so bad that youd never ever wanna play it, kinda makes it not a choice
timber thunder
Well, if you put it that way
modest lion
it wasnt part of the core gameplay loop since legion, if you wanna look at it that way. it was available, but it was never worth playing, so you never did
so in terms of core gameplay rotations, assa/outlaw/sub all gained things
brazen eagle
it is up to interpretation, but realz mentioned it during early development of the tree
modest lion
okay, but what is that distinction?
unless were talking raid vs m+ utility, then yeah, theres obviously a difference there
brazen eagle
i am not on the dev team, the message just highlights that it isn't seen as the same thing
or, thats how i read it at least
surreal dagger
they also assume enhancement doesn’t exist yet tune around it for rogues. pi exists but none of the classes that get it are tuned around it.
our sims shouldn’t include wft tbh
modest lion
ye kind of a fair point
modest lion
or, thats how i read it at least
well yeah, thats how it reads, my first reaction to reading it was just "huh?"
surreal dagger
i think they view some as non impactful (wft)
modest lion
but when i view it under the lense of m+ vs raid utility, then yeah, youd wanna be careful about which class gets what
surreal dagger
hell they didn’t know sectech was limp dick dmg
modest lion
i.e. we may have shitty raid utility, but our m+ utility is pretty bonkers
and since all raid utility becomes m+ utility, but not vice versa, you might end up in a werid spot if you give rogue smth super good, right
surreal dagger
i.e. we may have shitty raid utility, but our m+ utility is pretty bonkers
is it still?
modest lion
i think utility wise it was, which is why weve seen nerfs to aoe stun durations for example
which were pve specific and didnt apply to pvp, so clearly there were concerns about a class having a 5sec aoe stun
brazen eagle
i remember some specific nerfs as a consequenc of mythic+
outlaw nerf in bfa probably the one most of us remember
modest lion
is it still?
i mean, were 1 of 2 classes with a shroud, and 1 of 2 classes with a proper non-combat-trigger cc
modest lion
in m+?
ofc it has use lol
its just
that the highest dps classes
happen to be the ones we share that utility with
so if mage can bring aoe shroud if you need it, then obviously rogue is kinda not looking too hot if it deals half the dps
surreal dagger
from a pug stand point. i can’t recall last time we shrouded anything
brazen eagle
we discussed it earlier in #assassination
modest lion
thats cause pugs dont play around shroud in general
because pug strategies are developed to be workable/playable in any group composition
brazen eagle
true sight is somehting that is a bit qustionable in mythic dungeon design atm
modest lion
for the same reason they dont use gateway skips either
surreal dagger
so if majority of m+ is pugs is it utility? it’s always interesting to see what % of players the game is ultimately tuned around
modest lion
and at least when i was still playing, there were plenty of pugs that would go "are we shrouding smth" when they invited me, a rogue. people do adjust routes, just not everytime they have a rogue
lyric spear
it’s just that mind soothe is both shroud and sap
timber thunder
Sleep walk is sap
timber thunder
Mind soothe is shroud
sinful terrace
!vibecheck
hollow ravenBOT
477: Vibes are immaculate
surreal dagger
melee feels more awful this season in dungeons. part of it tuning but in general feels like there’s way more shit to fuck you up consistently
modest lion
ahrd to make the argument rogue hasnt consistently had very useful utility when its been a top3 dps class in almost every single m+ season in existence. sure, some of those it also ahd great damage, but thats definitely not been the case every patch
modest lion
in fact, this is the only time in the history of m+ where rogue hasnt been a top4 dps class
lyric spear
and shroud is not a 5 second cd
surreal dagger
in fact, this is the only time in the history of m+ where rogue hasnt been a top...
subs fault 
timber thunder
ahrd to make the argument rogue hasnt consistently had very useful utility when ...
We have 3 chances to be good as opposed to 1 chance that retri/feral/ww/others have
modest lion
ever since we got shroud back in mid-legion, weve been kinda cruising in m+ at the top-end
I dont really wanna talk about the mid-level pugs because at that point were not just talking viability/power levels, but also class representation. a class like rogue that nobody plays isnt g onna be played around as much simply because you dont see rogue that often to begin with
lyric spear
2 chances i think
surreal dagger
flew too close to the sun now all specs suffering
lyric spear
don’t think sin is designed with anything but st in mind
brazen eagle
i think the graph just highlights outliners
modest lion
people at the top-end gravitate towards whats best, and rogue has consistently been one of the best choices there
lyric spear
bring back old true bearing that reduced cloak cd
timber thunder
And even then sin could be justified in more boss-oriented keys
modest lion
and thats not solely due to dps, but because it has good utility on top of being very tanky, and doing good enough DPS
brazen eagle
rogue was rly strong due to shroud early on, and outlaw did just trip it over the top with high damage tuning
modest lion
the day people stop saying "well assa might be good for bosses in m+" is the day ill have a big party and send pictures of my feet
surreal dagger
I think they designed sim with m+ in mind, but missed the mark in the understanding of how dot classes need to be designed for m+
lyric spear
sin can only be good if it gets vendetta back
brazen eagle
the day people stop saying "well assa might be good for bosses in m+" is the day...
10.2 
modest lion
the "sin blasts bosses" argument hasnt made sense since bfa
lyric spear
single target damage is the most important damage in m+ but sin never scales
modest lion
when all classes are designed to do roughly equal damage on st
timber thunder
sin can only be good if it gets vendetta back
Macro /point into deathmark
modest lion
how is assa gonna be "the boss killer"?
modest lion
last time we were a boss killer was in legion, cause the other classes had to sacrifice st for aoe and the game wasnt as cd heavy as it has been since bfa/sl class redesigns
and even then monk just blasted you if they got concordance proc during sef
brazen eagle
peoples perception is sometimes wrong or based on outdated information
it is just the nature of things
modest lion
it always is
surreal dagger
st specialist doesn’t exist. now it’s buff vessels
lyric spear
only prio specialist exists
modest lion
st specialist existed back in the day, but thats no longer the case since bfa made damn sure to streamline every spec/class to the point where most of your aoe skills are part of your st rotation and vice versa
modest lion
gotta make sure that once wow really drops the ball you can bring it to consoles, so every class needs to be playable with a controller, i.e. you cant have more than 4 major rotational abilities
timber thunder
brazen eagle
is it too early?
modest lion
to unban flowi?
timber thunder
gotta make sure that once wow really drops the ball you can bring it to consoles...
Just bring classic to consoles
And mobile
surreal dagger
should have happens long ago. 🤣
lyric spear
sin will never ever be a good aoe spec
brazen eagle
"don't you guys have phones?"
modest lion
i mean classic has way more abilities than retail does
sure, your rotational flow only has like 2
lyric spear
sadly
surreal dagger
ngl curious what metzen is cooking.
modest lion
thrall fanfic
timber thunder
sin will never ever be a good aoe spec
As it currently stands - yes. Luckily Realz is cooking, the stoves are hot
lyric spear
eh
timber thunder
Wok and Stove, evewyone
lyric spear
if sin’s dots are going to be functionally meaningless you need to be able to apply them way easier
the 8 rupture garrote spread talent is cool
waxen latch
@flat scaffold
lyric spear
then u do .1% more damage to one target by pressing envenom instead of ct
timber thunder
I don’t think that’s what the mass murderer mindset havers want
surreal dagger
but we stay hopeful
lyric spear
dh got a dog tier set really
modest lion
the 8 rupture garrote spread talent is cool
no its not
lyric spear
i mean garrote garrote garrote is not going to cut it
modest lion
dots cant deal meaningful damage as long as you can easily apply dots to multiple targets
surreal dagger
they can if you shorten them
lyric spear
the reason it becomes unhealthy is spread cleave
i’m not saying it’s the correct design decision
surreal dagger
assa stuck in 30 second dot gameplay (exaggerated)
lyric spear
just that it’s something
modest lion
i mean
timber thunder
no its not
It kinda leans into how shadow/affli deal their damage nowadays. Which works, sort of, but makes dots more of a markers than actual damage dealers (which is not what people want)
modest lion
dots dominated the m+ meta in legion, and we didnt have mass application (not for most of them, anyway)
lyric spear
sin dots are so useless that applying 8 does nothing anyway
did seed of corruption not dominate the m+ meta
timber thunder
Or am I missing something??
modest lion
dots were too dominant in m+ in legion, so they changed all dot classes to no longer be dot classes. they just forgot assa exists
and if anyone wants to argue that boomie, sp or affli are still dot classes, they can suck my toes. because they have dots, but they sure as fuck dont deal the majority of their damage with them
modest lion
did seed of corruption not dominate the m+ meta
you still had to manually apply agony, which was the much bigger contributor. boomie had sunfire on all targets, but had to manually apply moonfire to every target (and it got autocleaved onto another target that didnt have it, so you always had to target one that didnt have it)
even monk had that same playstyle
lyric spear
you still have to do that with boomie
modest lion
cuz with sef youd still wanna get 3 stacks per gcd, so youd cast an ability on a target that didnt have crane yet, and your sef would smart-target enemies that didnt either
lyric spear
it would not be fun on a melee dps
modest lion
so ultimately the 3 meta classes in late legion all had dot playstyles without ease-of-use application of thier important dots/debuffs
and weirdly enough, those classes were super strong 
lyric spear
yeah
modest lion
but IC or shadowcrash aint it
lyric spear
i agree
modest lion
so, IC sucks
brazen eagle
i rly like replicating
lyric spear
i agree that ic sucks but i don’t retract my point calling it fine because given the context i was saying it in i still think it’s true
brazen eagle
we might get auto targeting at some point
modest lion
i agree that ic sucks but i don’t retract my point calling it fine because given...
take the L
lyric spear
nope
lyric spear
sin without ic would be significantly more unplayable
the dots do z dam
the class has no prio
spreading 8 at once is all it has
modest lion
thats true. but the existence of IC limits design space in many ways, because you cant suddenly make dots hit like a truck. i mean, you could, its not like gartrote+rupture dealing 100% more damage when applied with IC would make the calss broken either
lyric spear
i do not think it is good design
modest lion
its a bandaid imo
fiery nexus
lyric spear
i think what it is (ease of use for dot application) is a good framework
fiery nexus
Assassination leaking
lyric spear
is what i was trying to convey
but i don’t think there’s even a single part of sin’s design that is good for multiple targets
modest lion
yeah idk. i think if your dots have to be applied to all targets for you to deal meaningful damage, thats kinda failed design at that point
dots should be strongest in like 2-5t scenarios imo
lyric spear
dots should always give meaningful prio value
if classes are going to be designed to ultimately do the same thing anyway
the agi scaling talent tries to do this but falls flat
and that’s not really for prio
just a benefit
modest lion
but ye
lyric spear
but if you’re going to apply dots to 10 targets there needs to be a way you can meaningfully leverage it to deal damage
modest lion
think if youd really wanna do a proper do-over of aoe design for assa
youd have to remove CT and IC
modest lion
i hope you step on a lego
fiery nexus
Just give assassination mega utility and make each rupture tick have a chance to cause a slippery blood pool on the ground that stuns mobs 
lyric spear
except soothing darkness
modest lion
its just not doing enough dam for it to matter
we were hard trolling early in df and still pushed top-tier keys with me playing the "worst" rogue spec
cuz people underestimate how fucking useful assa is overall for both prio-dam and helping others do more damage
only people who get mad at playing with assa are protwarriors cuz you yoink their spell reflect on pull
fiery nexus
Well yeah I was mostly kidding but I don’t recall assassination ever being meta in m+
timber thunder
Well yeah I was mostly kidding but I don’t recall assassination ever being meta ...
Season 4 BfA comes to mind
modest lion
it was meta in s4 SL due to corruption, weirdly enough. and if you consider viable vs meta, it was more than viable for all of BFA, and all of legion
modest lion
you mean the one that existed for like
40 minutes on live
because after 2months of PTR and us saying "this is gonna be busted" they realized after the put it live anyway that it was indeed busted
elder patrol
combine sub and ass when
fiery nexus
it was meta in s4 SL due to corruption, weirdly enough. and if you consider viab...
I honestly never saw one in legion
lyric spear
because after 2months of PTR and us saying "this is gonna be busted" they realiz...
give me black bruise
modest lion
I honestly never saw one in legion
lyric spear
i wish i never got into m+
fiery nexus
Prob not too weird because I mostly ran with 3 friends and 1 pug dps
lyric spear
id probably still be playing warlock or warrior
modest lion
lyric spear
life would be good
modest lion
wonder what spec that fucker played
lyric spear
i can’t wait for it
fiery nexus
wonder what spec that fucker played
I’m guessing he played aff lock and that’s a typo in raider.io by his name
lyric spear
everything was good in keys in legion
fiery nexus
Yeh
modest lion
viability was decided by whether you could live through stuff, nothing else mattered
so boomie/rogue kinda goated
monk sucked but you could throw all defensives and shit on the monk with boomie+rogue
fiery nexus
I mean in legion
modest lion
oh
modest lion
glad that mage got more raid utility
timber thunder
Fresh off the baking tray
lyric spear
glad mage has a defensive cd
fiery nexus
Mage should crank but just not quite as much as it was after the rework
timber thunder
glad mage has a defensive cd
Glad mage has a second 50%+ dr now
lyric spear
mage should crank bc you need w special neuroticism to be good at it
lyric spear
Glad mage has a second 50%+ dr now
had that for a while
timber thunder
Two of them??
fiery nexus
It’s ok we will get ability to apply feint to group in rouge rework 
timber thunder
I feel like expecting stuff like mage rework for us is too high of a bar to set
modest lion
2.5mil healing in a 7min fight
as a dps
more healing than natures vigil on a boomie 
I LOVE WIZARDS
timber thunder
Sorcerer > Wizard
modest lion
this aint dnd
timber thunder
We ain’t in Acherus to talk dnd
modest lion
I feel like expecting stuff like mage rework for us is too high of a bar to set
i think if outlaw/sub expect that kind of treatment, theyre kinda delusional
fiery nexus
modest lion
id fully expect outlaw to get fairly little attention and just benefit from an overall class tree rework
assa prolly proper "rework", sub prolly half its spec tree changed up a bit, but mostly also class tree benefits
nova obsidian
Mage didnt get that much spec attention either
waxen latch
Sorcerer > Wizard
sorry, cant hear your ass over me using spells for something else then "me do dmg lol"
modest lion
ye
its mostly class stuff, and id assume assa gets more spec stuff too
and outlaw/sub spec mostly stays the same
timber thunder
sorry, cant hear your ass over me using spells for something else then "me do dm...
Cope
fiery nexus
I’m expecting most of the rework to be reallocation of how many points things cost and where it’s located with maybe baseline graple for outlaw
nova obsidian
Some class changes are likely to have a fairly large impact on the spec
brazen eagle
will def. be interessting to see how both trees change
raw python
rip outlaw
remote surge
<@921608341048930304> ur cute
surreal dagger
Some class changes are likely to have a fairly large impact on the spec
confirmed. sub dead
brazen eagle
soon:
surreal dagger
nah. you’re old
fringe tendon
wtf
brazen eagle
I tought we celebrated the 10 year thing not so long ago
you migth remember 15
from 2019
fringe tendon
what
oh ye
20 years
not 10
im dumb
wtf bro
this game so oldge
almost as old as me
boomer game fr
Imagine playing wow in 2023 
👴
timber thunder
Imagine playing wow in 2023 <:ICANT:964717117071048774>
Fun experience tbh
Might be even better than actually playing
fringe tendon
my honest reaction
thanks I appreciate your very honest reaction
surreal dagger
Imagine playing wow in 2023 <:ICANT:964717117071048774>
that’s wow2
calm elbow
(french friend)
wanton wadi
Imagine playing the same game for 20 yrs
ornate aspen
In this day and age its a good thing
surreal dagger
yeah much rather have AAA games that last a month if that
surreal dagger
how long did d4 last? s1 killed it?
calm elbow
Shadow of Mordor/War were great games
wanton wadi
If a game lasts me the same amount of hours it cost to play it then its worth
wanton wadi
Shadow of Mordor/War were great games
Till ur nemesis was giga as fuck
calm elbow
Till ur nemesis was giga as fuck
That's the beauty of it
wanton wadi
Literal enemy of progress
surreal dagger
@dusty scarab O H I O
dusty scarab
modest lion
Body camera video shows the officer who fired was directly in the path of the Lexus, Belford said, adding that the department plans to release the video “as soon as the necessary legal redactions can be made."
surreal dagger
yeah fucking wild wild west shit at a kroger
my initial question is wtf else did you do or have on you that the thought was to run over a cop
modest lion
idk
it sounds like there were multiple thefts at the same time
One woman suspected of theft was in a car parked in front of the grocery store, Belford said.
She started the car, and an officer approached on the driver's side and ordered her to get out, the chief said.
"She ignored the order and the other officer came from in front of the car and also ordered the woman to get out of the car,” Belford said. “Despite being ordered to get out of the car more than a dozen times, she refused to do so.”```So what, they saw an easy collar?
modest lion
Huh?
calm elbow
Says there was multiple thefts but they only saw the pregnant lady? Am I reading that right?
surreal dagger
huh?
modest lion
They were already at the store helping someone who locked themselves out of their car, when one of the employees came to them to tell them about the thefts
Can't really stop people from driving off if you're not aware they've been stealing, can you
calm elbow
True, but what kind of person shoplifts while pregnant?
modest lion
Idk? What kind of person gets caught, then gets told to step out of the vehicle after being caught, then decides the best course of action is to run over the police officer that has a gun pointed at you?
calm elbow
What kind of a store was it?
surreal dagger
just because you got knocked up does not make you smarter or dumber
modest lion
May or may not have smth to do with her having an outstanding warrant for her arrest
surreal dagger
grocer
calm elbow
just because you got knocked up does not make you smarter or dumber
She's endangering an innocent life for something meaningless though
surreal dagger
you are as well if you just shoplift
any crime can lead to really fucked up situations especially in retail
calm elbow
Must've been aggressive shoplifting or something, to get the police to react like this.
Not just lifting some meats down the front of your pants
surreal dagger
no
lol
are you not reading anything seli typed?
she fucking ignored basic orders to get out 12 fucking times and tried vehicular manslaughter or a cop
modest lion
I mean she probably didn't wanna get arrested if she already had a warrant for violating a consent agreement in a protection order. Obviously the officers didn't know that, so she decided that trying to run over the cop in front of her (or making him jump out of the way) was the best play
calm elbow
she fucking ignored basic orders to get out 12 fucking times and tried vehicular...
I meant whatever she stole was pricey for her to just actively refuse to cooperate, unless they had warrants for more serious shit like Seli said
surreal dagger
run a stop light and have a federal warrant out. guess how that goes. oh i just ran a stop sign
modest lion
the police didnt know that
this is a simple case of self-preservation instinct not kicking in
calm elbow
Do they have self-preservation in Ohio?
modest lion
You steal shit, doesn't matter how much. You get caught. You get told to step out of the car. You panic and/or don't want them to arrest you, because maybe you have other warrants already so it's not just a shoplifting they'd arrest you for once they verify your ID. You hit the gas with a cop in front of you.
pulsar trail
Do they have self-preservation in Ohio?
yeah it's called heroin
dusty scarab
Do they have self-preservation in Ohio?
Yeah it’s called fentanyl
pulsar trail
Yeah it’s called fentanyl
dusty scarab
https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-funny-point-no-you-gif-13270861
Hey wait!
surreal dagger
seli does it identify race? just waiting to see when that gets dropped in
dusty scarab
African American
surreal dagger
i’m hoping for cracked white girl
modest lion
Psure cops are allowed to shoot if their personal safety is at risk. If you're about to get run over, even if its maybe only gonna be 20-30mph, I'd reckon you'll have probably cause to shoot. He shot once. Unfortunately, it was fatal.
21y old Ta'kiya Young, african american. has 2 other children already, 3 and 6
fucking tragedy
surreal dagger
unfortunate for the kids
pulsar trail
Psure cops are allowed to shoot if their personal safety is at risk. If you're a...
or he could've idk put his car in front of hers
dusty scarab
Or if he was out of the car just
pulsar trail
instead of trying to stop her vehicle with his fucking body
dusty scarab
Moved out of the way
gentle basin
modest lion
or he could've idk put his car in front of hers
what car?
dusty scarab
True
surreal dagger
he was helping someone get in their locked car
dusty scarab
They have segways
pulsar trail
what do you mean what car
modest lion
they were helping another customer who locked themselves out of their car
do people not read what i write
surreal dagger
just me
pulsar trail
so you try to detain someone
dusty scarab
Seli it’s ok
ripe wasp
How read
calm elbow
https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-funny-point-no-you-gif-13270861
Fentanyl is like the new heroin isn't it?
modest lion
the other officers was at the drivers side
dusty scarab
modest lion
asking her repeatedly to step out of the car. she refused.
pulsar trail
so what
dusty scarab
Like they already have her plates
pulsar trail
so an officer can stop me in a parking lot of suspected theft and order me out of the vehicle
and I'm supposed to just get out?
modest lion
id assume so, ye
pulsar trail
oh okay
calm elbow
modest lion
if theres literally witnesses around that can attest to you having stolen shit
pulsar trail
ah yes
eye witness testimony
all saw this black woman driving a fucking lexus
shop lift from kroger
yes
modest lion
id say police have PC to ask you to leave your vehicle and arrest you. or is a thief just supposed to get away with theft if they refuse to step out of the car?
surreal dagger
you can remain silent and cooperate no?
pulsar trail
you can remain silent and cooperate no?
why would I
ripe wasp
If you didn't steal why wouldn't you cooperate?
surreal dagger
invoke your rights or don’t.
modest lion
like, im genuinely confused. what does police need to be able to ask a suspect to leave their vehicle?
calm elbow
all saw this black woman driving a fucking lexus
If enough people say it, the cop acts on it 
pulsar trail
invoke your rights or don’t.
invoke what rights
modest lion
if i steal something, then run into my car and lock the door, and the police tries to get me out to arrest me but i wont open the door... the only solution for them is to let me drive away, and get run over possibly
pulsar trail
asking someone to step out of the vehicle isn't an arrest
what possible rights would someone need to invoke
calm elbow
like, im genuinely confused. what does police need to be able to ask a suspect t...
Probable cause I think? Like if you have eye witnesses that say you did something then the cop has reason to suspect
surreal dagger
you can ask if you’re being detained
modest lion
well yeah, this case screams PC to me
unreal quiver
pulsar trail
does it scream probable cause to you
unreal quiver
This video is kinda relevant
pulsar trail
go ahead and define probable cause for me
modest lion
"store employee screams that woman stole smth"
surreal dagger
screams like someone stole a bottle of crown royal and got caught
modest lion
what else do they need?
surreal dagger
store employees aren’t going to sit there and just accuse people of shit randomly
well maybe in TX
ripe wasp
Usually
calm elbow
go ahead and define probable cause for me
"an amount of citizens saw you steal items from a grocer and get in your car"?
modest lion
seems they had a stealing spree and the employee ran out to call the police for help that were already there helping someone with their locked car. so, what is the US police officer supposed to do, just let the criminal get away?
wanton wadi
Idk kind of seems like a "fuck around and found out" kind of angle
ripe wasp
No but it's enough to check
pulsar trail
I'm sorry but I find it hilarious that you're all siding with the officer because a store employee in bumblefuck ohio "screamed that they saw the black lady steal"
unreal quiver
Get cctv footage or smth
dusty scarab
As an Ohioan and a former Kroger employee I gotta say the workforce does not give the slightest fuck about their inventory unless they’re a manager
Kroger is also a “No-Chase” company
pulsar trail
then the bootlicker reply
surreal dagger
pull the footage easy enough
unreal quiver
No but it's enough to check
You can ask her but she has every right to refuse if you don’t have evidence
pulsar trail
just comply
modest lion
One woman suspected of theft was in a car parked in front of the grocery store, Belford said.```Brotherman might as well just get detained than fuck around eith the PoPo
calm elbow
That’s hearsay
But then you ignore everything the officer tells you and that looks innocent?
modest lion
seems like it wasnt just one person, but a spree
wanton wadi
Rather see ur day in court than see it 6 ft under
unreal quiver
But then you ignore everything the officer tells you and that looks innocent?
You have every right to ignore them
pulsar trail
Rather see ur day in court than see it 6 ft under
yeah philando castille complied and didn't get his day in court
unreal quiver
Unless they are detaining you you can ignore them
calm elbow
You have every right to ignore them
Yeah, she just made a dumb decision
pulsar trail
he actually got straight up murdered in front of his girlfriend and child
surreal dagger
i’m curious where the car ended up after shots fired
modest lion
youre basically ignoring everything that would make the officer think "okay, im gonna do my job now" and stop someone who was suspected of stealing shit, to, like, you know, check.
if they didnt, then they get out of the car, the officer pats them down, you get back into your car after 2 mins of awkwardness, and move along.
or you dont get out of the car, have people tell you to do so coutnless times, then hit the gas when one of the police officers is in front of your car.
pulsar trail
and now you're telling me that we should give the cops the benefit of the doubt
lol ok
get the fuck outta here man
wanton wadi
yeah philando castille complied and didn't get his day in court
Not saying shit doesn't happen, but it's a game of increasing ur chance of survival
pulsar trail
as if ohio didn't make the news for an officer chasing down someone because of "shots fired"
modest lion
i mean thats the US problem in a nutshell anyway. im not a fan of how US handles many many cases. but in this one, from what we know so far it seems they kinda what youd expect police to do
pulsar trail
and then decided to jump on the hood of the vehicle
and unload a full clip rambo style into the guy
unreal quiver
Go check the video I just linked this exact situation happens. They say they have “probable cause” to detain a woman and in doing so break a bunch of laws
pulsar trail
the "gun shot" was an exhaust backfire btw
modest lion
but ye anyway
wanton wadi
As soon as she started driving at the cop she fucked up
modest lion
tragic that 2 kids lost their mother over whatever the fuck it was she stole
pulsar trail
if we could stop giving cops the benefit of the doubt when they've repeatedly proven that they're pretty fucking terrible at their jobs
that'd be grand
modest lion
if we could stop giving cops the benefit of the doubt when they've repeatedly pr...
doenst mean that every cop is a fuckup either
surreal dagger
Go check the video I just linked this exact situation happens. They say they hav...
street cops usually know how to read someone their rights. court clerks lol
wanton wadi
Not really benefit of the doubt here from the information gathered
pulsar trail
you mean the "good ones"?
pulsar trail
the ones who let the pieces of shit go about without being reported?
calm elbow
As soon as she started driving at the cop she fucked up
It's baffling how she thought staying in the car and refusing every order would eventually play out, and then decide to just floor it
pulsar trail
I'm 100% going to bad apple you
modest lion
plenty of fucked up things happen, but at some point your self preservation instinct needs to kick in, and that should happen BEFORE you start running over a cop that has a gun pointed at you.
unreal quiver
street cops usually know how to read someone their rights. court clerks lol
He wasn’t just a court clerk tho he had been an officer for over 20 years
pulsar trail
I don't give a fuck if Tommy Twinkletoes is a good officer
modest lion
probably has family too. pick another job loser
pulsar trail
and tries his best
wanton wadi
It's baffling how she thought staying in the car and refusing every order would ...
Just not a well thought out plan. Had a better chance just staying in the car tbh
wanton wadi
Most cops are incompetentantly trained
pulsar trail
thank god pregnant women aren't hormonal and not thinking straight
she should've just complied
unreal quiver
and why it aint ever gonna get fixed
Qualified immunity is a bigger deal
wanton wadi
But at the same point not many people wanna get shot at for like 40k a uear
surreal dagger
He wasn’t just a court clerk tho he had been an officer for over 20 years
i grew up 15 minutes from there. they’re desk monkeys / mall cops
wanton wadi
Being a cop is an actual lose-lose
modest lion
she should've just complied
ye, she shouldve, actually. but maybe the fact she had a warrant for her arrest for violating a consent agreement had smth to do with it, idk.
pulsar trail
cops make way more than 40k a year
unreal quiver
i grew up 15 minutes from there. they’re desk monkeys / mall cops
I mean sure but that’s how he described himself
pulsar trail
don't let them lie to you
calm elbow
Just not a well thought out plan. Had a better chance just staying in the car tb...
It's clear she didn't realize she could just sit in the car. Seems she understood she was in a lose-lose situation and just refused to comply in any way, without knowing they couldn't actually force her out of the car.
pulsar trail
thin blue line brother 
wanton wadi
It's clear she didn't realize she *could* just sit in the car. Seems she underst...
Doom music kicked in at the wrong time fr
surreal dagger
I mean sure but that’s how he described himself
you can describe yourself any way you want. likely knew someone. went through the system. had a fuckup in the field. got transferred to metal detector duty
flat scaffold
<@83652604344664064>
not small and chubby but other than that, thats 100% accurate
modest lion
maybe she knew if shed get arrested, it wouldnt just be a minor shoplifting case 
im sure she panicked, just as the cop did who in his panic decided to fire a shot, instead of doing the darksouls roll to iframe out of the lexus that was about to hit him
pulsar trail
especially if you've never seen the footage of how "good cops" treat peaceful protestors
calm elbow
What's with Ohio lately? Trying to outdo Florida?
surreal dagger
cook county isn’t exactly an uncorrupted county
pulsar trail
I watched a Detroit officer body slam a 22 year old kid for flipping him off
but yeah man
wanton wadi
What's with Ohio lately? Trying to outdo Florida?
Gotta have some reason to gain attention
wheat ore
What's with Ohio lately? Trying to outdo Florida?
nah florida went full ohio last few years
now im not sure which is worse
pulsar trail
policing, tough job
wanton wadi
Who even remembers ohio exists
pulsar trail
super intimidating 22 year old who was 170 pounds soaking wet
got his skull cracked open on the concrete
calm elbow
if you're a police officer apologist
I don't like any public servants unless I know them personally
pulsar trail
for flipping off an officer
wheat ore
Who even remembers ohio exists
people who live in indiana and want to make fun of a state worse than theirs
wanton wadi
people who live in indiana and want to make fun of a state worse than theirs
Trueing
pulsar trail
while the good officer was just "doing his job"
and his fellow officers screaming
"FUCKIN GET HIM"
calm elbow
Ohio seems like a great place to actually implement the plot of Robocop instead of Detroit.
fiery nexus
Reminds me of this https://youtu.be/Tap6SEf0Er4?si=7RTfK-_S47vP0QX2 ofc this woman I don’t think was Actuallly pregnant
modest lion
oxi my friend, youre getting agitated over smth that has nothing to do with the case that was being discussed. i know youre passionate about it, and i dont think anyone is gonna argue those cases youre bringing up with you either.
but thats, like, kinda not what the case in question is about
pulsar trail
when police officers nation wide were beating and arrested legal observers at the BLM protests who were CLEARLY designated with vests to avoid that shit
that's 100% what the case in question is about
the fact that you were quick to be like
"well I guess probable cause 
"
modest lion
and youre not quick to just automatically assume the cop is at fault?
pulsar trail
you're giving the officers the benefit of the doubt
when there's 1000 other ways they could've handled it
surreal dagger
i honestly don’t think most go into law enforcement to turn into a piece of shit. i think the job ends up attracting people that are ultimately unable to deal with all the stress they actually deal with and have next to no useful mental health support
pulsar trail
fucking move out of the way of the vehicle
instead of standing in front of it and playing GI Joe
wanton wadi
I mean this would be a whole different convo if the story was "Cop got run over by pregnant woman"
modest lion
and let the person get away?
pulsar trail
its fucking petty theft
yes
you let the person get away
I'm not allowed to fucking shoot someone for stealing from my property
why is a cop allowed to?
because he's "an officer of the law"?
modest lion
cause his job is to kinda stop criminals
surreal dagger
I'm not allowed to fucking shoot someone for stealing from my property
move to IL
calm elbow
i honestly don’t think most go into law enforcement to turn into a piece of shit...
Law enforcement is a great place for people that like having power in both authority and weaponry. 
modest lion
and not let them drive off with what they stole?
pulsar trail
and not let them drive off with what they stole?
because you can't take down the plate number
pulsar trail
and have someone else intercept the vehicle right?
that town has two police officers in one car
no one else
fiery nexus
I'm not allowed to fucking shoot someone for stealing from my property
If you feel threatened though
wanton wadi
See the issue here is how many peeps would make a judgement call like that
fiery nexus
wanton wadi
With all the shit happening
modest lion
okay so, if someone commits a crime, its fine to like not try to stop them at all, you just let them drive off as long as you have thier plates. not like the car could be stolen or anything, you have the suspect RIGHT THERE, but youre just gonna let them drive off
aight
calm elbow
If you feel threatened though
Or your state has the "stand my ground" law
wanton wadi
Again if he wasn't getting drove at
pulsar trail
put yourself in front of a vehicle
modest lion
they asked her, repeatedly, to leave the car
wanton wadi
This would be a different story
fiery nexus
Or your state has the "stand my ground" law
Mine does yes
pulsar trail
she did not have to comply
fiery nexus
Well
modest lion
did she not? at what point does someone have to leave their car when police asks them to?
wanton wadi
At that point it's just a bad situation all around
fiery nexus
It’s not ideal no.
pulsar trail
bro
she was accused of stealing something from a grocery store
lmfao
a GROCERY STORE
surreal dagger
that doesn’t answer the question
wanton wadi
I mean its a crime to steal last I checked
modest lion
in civilized parts of the world, when police asks you to leave their car, you ask them why, and then they say "well you see madam, youve just been caught stealing stuff, and theres 1-2-3-4-5 witnesses 20m from here, so we would very kindly ask you to step out of the vehicle so we can arrest you"
fiery nexus
I mean its a crime to steal last I checked
For someone to die for stealing groceries that’s a problem. For it to get to someone dying for that
calm elbow
she did not have to comply
Hypothetically if the cop that got in front as she attempted to drive off just rolled off and she sped away without being shot, what happens then?
Serious inquiry
fiery nexus
Is it not a problem
pulsar trail
Hypothetically if the cop that got in front as she attempted to drive off just r...
then you call it in and arrest her
wanton wadi
Is it not a problem
Again based on the info though I'm not going to be like "Fuck the Police" when the actions taken seemed to point to a bad end
calm elbow
then you call it in and arrest her
Okay, and in the case of what actually happened they're trying to determine that the officer was wrong in his use of lethal force?
modest lion
the civilized argument
i mean it was hyperbole, but i seriously question at what point police "have the right" to ask you to leave the vehicle. i think if people are around that witnessed you committing a crime less than 2 minutes ago, that gives them probable cause, no?
fiery nexus
Again based on the info though I'm not going to be like "Fuck the Police" when t...
I mean I will generally say “fuck the police/the state of the police” in the US.
wanton wadi
Like I'm not the biggest fan of police myself but I'm not going to let that stop me from being obj3ctive
fiery nexus
But obviously they are a needed thing.
pulsar trail
that doesn’t answer the question
when you're under arrest
to reply to your VERY loaded comment
Mr. Scath
wanton wadi
i mean it was hyperbole, but i seriously question at what point police "have the...
You don't have to leave tbf unless they pull out a warrant iirc
pulsar trail
Unless you are UNDER ARREST
you do not have to leave the vehicle
period
end of story
I don't give a fuck if the entire police department showed up and asked her to exit the vehicle
wanton wadi
But also pressing the gas at someone in front of your car is asking for a homicide vharge
flat scaffold
im gonna pull a funny dont kill me
surreal dagger
and how does she know if she’s being detained ?
modest lion
i mean they were trying to arrest her though like?
wanton wadi
Tbh it's just an unfortunate situation all around
calm elbow
I don't give a fuck if the entire police department showed up and asked her to e...
So they couldn't just box her in with like their own cars? They have to let her drive off?
pulsar trail
i mean they were trying to arrest her though like?
were they?
modest lion
were they?
they did lmao
pulsar trail
so was it probable cause or not
pulsar trail
because you can't arrest someone for probable cause
fiery nexus
that would be me
I like the racing gamer seats
modest lion
like
unless you want him to just stroll to his police car first and drive around the parking lot for another minute
pulsar trail
probable cause gives you the right to search for evidence of the crime being committed
so clearly you have zero idea of how these things operate in america
and that's okay
because you don't live here
but if you think the officer parked at the end of the parking lot 1000 ft away from the entrance
you're wrong
they park right at the fucking door
modest lion
id think the officer putting his person in front of the car should/would count as him trying to stop them from running off, because he didnt have time to do smth else
calm elbow
Do we know what she was accused of stealing?
dusty scarab
modest lion
Do we know what she was accused of stealing?
does it matter?
wanton wadi
id think the officer putting his person in front of the car should/would count a...
Hold on one sec lemme get my cop car to box you in
modest lion
Hold on one sec lemme get my cop car to box you in
ye but dont drive off in the meantime, please
we just wanna talk, pinky promise
calm elbow
does it matter?
I hada real dumb theory but it was real dumb
pulsar trail
with all due respect
dusty scarab
Another one from Ohio 
pulsar trail
you're a cunt
wanton wadi
Even if we say the police were the bad guys here right
Both parties didn't make any of this easy
modest lion
oxi brother, youve been raging at me ever since you joined the convo, if you think im reacting cunt~y now, its me reacting to you just being very angry when i just tried to provide more info on the story
fiery nexus
probable cause gives you the right to search for evidence of the crime being com...
I’m asking because I’m curious but with probable cause being there and if she had sped off and they searched her later and didn’t find the stolen items are they just shit out of luck with no evidence except store employees testimony or camera evidence if they had it or would running off when they had probable cause and tried to stop her be held against her?
pulsar trail
I love the man from Germany trying to be right about all things "civilized" as if every country in the world operates like Germany does
calm elbow
wanton wadi
Every countries police is dog shite
calm elbow
What an interesting morning
pulsar trail
I’m asking because I’m curious but with probable cause being there and if she ha...
then she gets charged with obstructing a police officer
so the "good guys" still win at the end
fiery nexus
So an additional charge basically?
pulsar trail
yes
fiery nexus
Hm, ok. Just curious.
modest lion
we had a decent conversation on it all until you came in to drop the "fuck cops" lines again, and to me it didnt seem to apply to this situation, from what we know so far.
wanton wadi
It did come out of left field tbf
fiery nexus
Could be better to take the obstructing charge and dump the bodies 
wanton wadi
We were still in info storming phase
pulsar trail
sorry for ruining your apologetic conversation toward police officers seli
surreal dagger
we had a decent conversation on it all until you came in to drop the "fuck cops"...
no decent conversations allowed in ot
pulsar trail
next time I'll sit by quietly while you're okay with a woman dying because she refused to comply with the police officer
modest lion
oxi, i didnt do any of that until you actually started the entire issue of "who is at fault"
wanton wadi
You can still be objective to police and give them the benefit of the death
modest lion
i didnt talk about guilt or what was right or not until you started it. sorry for reacting to what you write
pulsar trail
also it's bad policing to stand directly in front of a vehicle
sounds like that city needs to train their police officers better
surreal dagger
@dusty scarab watch it be related