#unicode Documentary - How a group of players completed Infinite Craft

[elder rose]

I was hoping someone else would be able to load the comment archive

That I found at least one new person is enough to make me want to search through the rest, but that seems infeasible

[fast lava]

maybe someone needs to try different browsers then?

[elder rose]

That was poorly phrased, I meant in the sense that Google Sheets comments are not well-optimised

I doubt a different browser would help

[fast lava]

is it possible for someone to run some script to read the comments

[elder rose]

.

So not really

[stray vine]

It is possible with api

[paper creek]

huh last time i checked you could do it

[elder rose]

Oh hold on

Yes, I just checked as well

[stray vine]

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/62857183/how-get-comments-from-cells-with-google-sheets-api

[elder rose]

Well that simplifies things

[paper creek]

lol the thread requesting the app script feature is 13 years old now

[severe apex]

you prob alr know, but you can also do this

Show all comments

[elder rose]

That was what killed my browser

[severe apex]

killerbowser reference?!

wake up american

[elder rose]

Do those comments come under this ?

[bronze thicket]

Oh? I was reading the docs and they very openly said “we do not provide any way to get the comments” I swear

[bronze thicket]

Joe Biden…. Wake up. okay what am I even saying that’s just a random meme I remembered

[elder rose]

Token limit and character combining limit should be explained near the start right?

It took a few days for either to be confirmed, they weren't when I joined. I'm trying to find the message but it's hard on my phone

If I remember correctly I used to believe the limit was 50 chars or 10 tokens, whichever came first

I don't remember why I thought this

[severe apex]

did someone figure that out before pb?

[elder rose]

Which? Token was definitely PB but I think Tipoima was earlier with character

In any case both were fully confirmed after Mika's DMs with Neal

[severe apex]

I think I remember you posting an image of PB talking about character limit (for alive elements)

[elder rose]

Maybe

We figured out the character limit much later than token though

Well, "much" in relative terms

The character limit was largely irrelevant to early Unicode in any case though, since we were not at the point of repeatedly intentionally constructing completely arbitrary tools

Other than those, the banned characters, and casing, what else technical would require explanation?

Unicode tokenisation?

[amber fiber]

I was thinking that some strats would require at least a succint explanation on the screen while the game is also playing next to it, showing said strat.

Maybe not a full picture but just some text over the game playing

[fast lava]

alphabetical ordering needs to be mentioned

[elder rose]

Oh that is true

Especially with how it relates to alt alphabets as well as Unicode ordering

[fast lava]

what program did u use to make this

[amber fiber]

Inkscape

[fast lava]

thanks

[fast lava]

laurasia uses inkscape, laurasia ends in the letter a

judeka uses inkscape, judeka ends in the letter a

this can't be a coincidence

[stray vine]

They also have u in their names

[sullen sparrow]

They also have names formed with letters

[fast lava]

i should download inkscape and switch my nickname to something that ends in a

[severe apex]

consonant(s) vowel(s) consonant(s) vowel(s) consonant(s) vowel(s)

[severe apex]

obbybigfa

[stray vine]

Letters

[amber fiber]

An IRL emergency happened, I have to travel for the next couple of days and I'm not taking my laptop. I'll finish the unobtainable characters thingy and start the scripts when I'm back

[fast lava]

other than ., = and whitespaces, are there other unobtainable characters?

[severe apex]

for now, controls might be unobtainable

[elder rose]

They aren't banned, though

[severe apex]

fair

[elder rose]

Unobtainable might be the wrong word

[severe apex]

near impossible

[fast lava]

we should use impossible?

[elder rose]

It's difficult to say

[fast lava]

Also 4xxxx-bxxxx and higher than fffff is in same situation as C0 controls, only difference is C0 is alive

[fast lava]

hmm what if some char in those ranges is alive, someone could run a dead checker

[elder rose]

Yes, that's also part of my reasoning.

They aren't outright banned by any known process, but we do not have a path to them

So in a sense we cannot obtain them

[severe apex]

I think fuezt ran/is running a dead checker on basically all unicode?

[fast lava]

but we should probably use a different word for C0 controls and for chars that are literally impossible to get

[elder rose]

Impossible characters is good enough then

[fast lava]

and also whitespaces are in a slightly different version of impossible than . and =, since they're impossible by themselves but possible not by themselves

[elder rose]

Well . is also possible not by itself

Only = is impossible anywhere

[fast lava]

oh yeah

[indigo fern]

.alphabet temporarily left obby's mind

then again i guess there are probably more common uses of . not in isolation

[elder rose]

I will refer you to the concept of websites

[paper creek]

or sentences

[elder rose]

You say that, but there were no full stops (in normal positions) in any of the above sentences until my "reasoning"

[delicate yew]

this was above your message, and methinks thats a fair usage of .

[bronze thicket]

how we going

[bronze thicket]

explanations are neat, but we should be getting writing sooner rather than later

[proper basin]

shut up

[hazy sorrel]

i am running,but since there not yet a existence api endpoint to check the existence of a element in Neal database it mean doing multiple request for 1 char to avoid as much as possible false negative, which mean checking a giant amount of chars and that take a LOT of time

[severe apex]

thats what she said

[hazy sorrel]

No I am living in a zone where they speak kajkavian

[delicate yew]

CROATIA MENTIONED !!

[bronze thicket]

not much happening 😦

[midnight topaz]

Many active members are doing #1327423622805061735 i guess

[hazy sorrel]

sadly

[languid crater]

also #1227953064238120972

[golden sky]

Free Activ 🫡

[midnight topaz]

this is not place for this

[golden sky]

Free Activ 🫡

[midnight topaz]

this is not PlaTef01ngf234j egh1 for this

[golden sky]

Free Activ 🫡

[midnight topaz]

shit

I ran out of places

[golden sky]

Paid Activ 🤨

[bronze thicket]

Huh

I guess I missed it

[modern moon]

:(

[ocean tiger]

yea, everyone is active on https://discord.com/channels/1203527044957208596/1330599424769917092

[elder rose]

I did not mean for this to happen

I keep killing threads

I killed Speedrunning, I killed the original OOC

[modern moon]

os that for another video or just in general?

[amber fiber]

Yeah I kinda lost motivation when I came back and saw that progress was stopped sorry...

[bronze thicket]

That’s normal - it’s a long way back to look in messages, but if we just each go back to stuff we did and read through and write down what we see and take screenshots we’ll be good

[bronze thicket]

the thing is theres been a lot of discussion about early days and stuff and what was first and when X happened and Y happened - but im not seeing any of this information in the dumping areas so I can't continue to write

[bronze thicket]

torn between whether we reveal neal case right away or we just introduce the struggles and what we thought and how it was annoying and only as the knowledge became available, we refine the model that we show the viewers

and then show them the full model once we figured it out ourselves

in the meantime ive written 3 more pages of dumping stuff, but a lot of it is presumptive - we need to assign people to time periods and concepts I think - the people who actually have the expertise with the area in question are the ones who should write it

[midnight topaz]

latter i think

[bronze thicket]

maybe we can ask Kali or mika to try structure this better and assign stuff cause right now it’s not working

[bronze thicket]

Im about to go to bed and not be available so I think now is a good time to inform @graceful lantern we may need some assistance and structure if we want it done any time soon - of course we can come back later but I just thought id let you know we haven’t done anything in like, a week

[graceful lantern]

gn rubiks

imo we need to make sure we dont overwhelm the viewer

[last geyser]

noodgiht

[graceful lantern]

go bit by bit, alongside when the discoveries were made if we can

if we need to introduce a discovery we only made some weeks later, then so be it

but introducing everything at the beginning will be tough for the viewer to follow

[bronze thicket]

Yes that’s all well and good - but the main problem is: the people who have the information about dates and messages and order and community state at time X and who did Y and whatever are not the ones writing

So we need to structure it somehow

Delegate tasks

[graceful lantern]

ahhh

[bronze thicket]

split up properly

Have like

The red team

green team

don’t care

[last geyser]

but then i had a very good idea. i used Delte First Character. See using delete first character gave me a whole new perspective and i was able to craft an element i couldn't have craftedbefore.

[bronze thicket]

Whatever works

[graceful lantern]

SEAWATT!!!!!

[graceful lantern]

yeah i see

we need to centralize info i think

maybe a sheet listing the chronological list of events separated by month could be a good idea?

[bronze thicket]

Yes but also it’s far better if the people who research for time period X actually write that part

[graceful lantern]

like we make a February page, a March page etc.

[bronze thicket]

we need groups with time periods and then researchers and writers for each group

sure fine

Whatever works

[graceful lantern]

i agree! but we can't force someone who has no idea how to write stuff to write stuff

we could try to encourage it strongly

saying we'll proofread and rewrite

[bronze thicket]

that’s fine - as long as the info exists

it will all go in stating grounds anyway

the others in the group can go over it and then they can call on others to help wrkte it

[graceful lantern]

also if we take a solution it can be temporary and we can always change it if we see its not efficient

wrong thing to do is staying as is i think

[bronze thicket]

I figure we might listen to you better, maybe mika knows a good way as well

[graceful lantern]

we could make a sheet or at least find a way to centralize info for now, and then continue to take input from people and eventually find an optomal solution

[bronze thicket]

whatever works I don’t care

[graceful lantern]

we'll see

[bronze thicket]

well the doc is intended to house all the info but sheet to supplement may help

also encourage images with research

or links to messages

and there is the small bit of research outside the server like for reddit or popular culture if they ever come in

I’ve seen lots of great ideas and research but the data just isn’t evident for me to write, I’ve done 90% of the writing so far but the data I need isn’t there (I didn’t do much research yet, I’m planning to once we get read up to when I at least started)

Alright good night. I will leave early in the morning and will not be available for a few days, or longer if it turns out i need surgery. I mean I will briefly check in each day when I can

[last geyser]

stay safe and healthy man, gn

[severe apex]

heyelthy

[graceful lantern]

oh shit stay safe!!!

[cosmic canopy]

Oh no, stay strong and wish thing get better.

[bronze thicket]

Rip “deadline” (ik it was never really a goal)

[graceful lantern]

i may be stupid i did nothing

yet

[bronze thicket]

ok

[midnight topaz]

bump

i should start reading unicode again tho

[bronze thicket]

M

why did I send that

Oops

[delicate yew]

Mountain

[bronze thicket]

what would make people more motivated to help

I wonder

[paper creek]

world peace

[bronze thicket]

would it though

what if… Neal himself came here and asked us to get a move along

would we listen because it’s Neal

[hazy sorrel]

i think the problem is peoples do not really have idea of what to write tbh, cause there were a lot of thing happening but at the same time its not THAT much to say like quite some techs but its probably hard just to get ideas?
-# or maybe just a problem of motivation, idk

[bronze thicket]

As far as I can tell there’s two issues 1. Motivation and 2. the research and writing and dumping is not organised enough

the people who are researching parts either feel like they need to do too much (the whole thing for example) and/or are not writing the part they’d specialise in, it’s why I think we need teams and roles here

nobody ever made a movie without organising roles

[hazy sorrel]

-# at least for me the problem for myself to help with that is ideas of what to say cause tbh i did contribute but i have no idea on how to explain anything of what happened even tho i was contributing to unicode for quite some time now in a way or another

[bronze thicket]

Imagine the actors acting as different characters or writing the script or doing the special effects

Splitting into months could honestly be an easy solution

[hazy sorrel]

-# no but like i would honestly like to help but my imagination/ability to explain/ideas is almost inexistant overall in my life

[bronze thicket]

ah yeah I feel that a lot - but we can take care of that and adapt even just an info dump

[bronze thicket]

we hire researchers and writers and then we get result for only $something

[haughty raven]

I can donate $0.62 of chatgpt credits

Will that be enough

[bronze thicket]

for writing? I mean it could work but id advise against throwing it the whole thing and saying “write” - maybe portions and suggestions

but yea idk

[haughty raven]

it was a joke but if you need my 62 cents let me know

[fast lava]

tell Neal u will pay him 62 cents if he tells you the \x01 recipe

[bronze thicket]

we do need to get that from Neal though

Even if we just ask for if there’s a valid entry point or not

(a recipe that leads to c0 controls that does not itself contain any c0 controls)

[bronze thicket]

@unkempt sphinx here

[unkempt sphinx]

thanks

would this be useful
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1lrlBfZik3sfJdYN7Ek7GuVKAwEk838fL?usp=sharing

[bronze thicket]

Sure anything is useful

[elder rose]

I think fundamentally the problem is that the process of making the video isn't very rewarding in the end

It is a decent effort trying to turn information into substance, and that's a skill that needs to be learned first

I'm also slightly wary of the fact that a decent chunk of the Unicode people are now gone

I feel like there needs to be someone from the outside brought in, if we want this to work. Someone who actually does this kind of thing and does it well

[elder rose]

Asking ourselves "What's Important" leads to bloat, and bloat is effort that doesn't make it into the final cut. Someone else needs to be the one interrogating

And if the response to that is that no one else would be interested enough, then by that argument we would have no audience either

[midnight topaz]

I might wanna try to contact asd

pings qadi

[elder rose]

I'm saying this also because I've realised I too will be going soon. End of the month, I have too many things on my plate this coming year and I cannot get too absorbed in again

So I'm hoping if anyone knows anyone who could help, please reach out

I want there to be something like this, but of course I do. I was part of it

[bronze thicket]

mika offered to make video and i gather that theyre very good at that, but sure ok

not rewarding is an interesting take

i always had thought it would be very rewarding but ive never personally been in this situation so

[elder rose]

I may have misworded that

For the effort expended, the reward is relatively small

As for the Mika thing, as I understood it she knows the process of making a video, in the sense of editing, and can do the voice part, but in terms of the substance of the video she's not "doing the research", per se

Which of course is reasonable, those are different skillsets

[bronze thicket]

i mean we could ask for help there but sure i see.

[elder rose]

Yeah that's what I think needs to happen

I mean hell, my entire study revolves around briefing geopolitics, but I'm having trouble with this partially because I was in it. I cannot look at it from a documentary's distance

[bronze thicket]

i do feel somewhat similar, although the funny thing is i could probably research early stuff cause i wasnt here, but it does feel a bit daunting cause im anxious about what if i miss important stuff

[elder rose]

But that's the thing isn't it

Everything's "important" because it feels wrong to leave out any contribution because we know these people

I cannot in good faith separate what is good for the documentary and what isn't

[bronze thicket]

the way it always works is it starts from everything and then we select things of importance, things that illustrate points, things for visuals, compilations, etc, and we select as broad as we can and importantly we put all of it somewhere that we can look at later, and then what we do is we continue the process, making shortlists and refining how images or compilations or explanations or points will fall together

like [a, b, c, d, e, f, g] -> [b, c, d, e, f] -> [c, d, f] -> [c] (but with snippets of the other items in there too but thats hard to represent)

[elder rose]

Well in any case

7 hours from now one year ago was the first glimpse beyond ASCII

So happy anniversary, Unicode

[bronze thicket]

well thats useful i had been trying to find

[wraith dust]

I think this is also my last month playing as I will soon start working again. But I won't leave the group so feel free to ping me when/if the Documentary will ever be done or if you need help

[last geyser]

waie i missed IC 1 year dam

[bronze thicket]

uhe left? dang.

[last geyser]

found one more: BōB

[graceful lantern]

sorry for not working on anything recently

I've been busy with life

hopefully i can come back to inf craft soon

[graceful lantern]

Done!

[last geyser]

its fine

ty

[peak vessel]

Crazy

[graceful lantern]

oh youre so late

hiii

glad to see you here

thats awesome

you dont have to help for anything if you dont want to

[peak vessel]

A little

[graceful lantern]

im just happy you got here like ever

hope everything is well :D

[peak vessel]

The server was in a random folder and I couldn't find it for a while

I'm at the 200 server max

[graceful lantern]

ahhh i see

explains a lot

but yeah theyre going for all the unassigned values now

crazy

[peak vessel]

Crazy indeed

[graceful lantern]

well theres been a dent in discord activity

unsure if theres progress on the sheets anyhow

here we're supposedly making a documentary about the project

im supposed to put stuff in a nice sheet eventually but im so god damn busy

[peak vessel]

Dang

Well

Good luck

[last geyser]

im gonna be a tad busy a few days

[bronze thicket]

h

[amber fiber]

I'll try to make some progress on this now that the Pokémon speedrun has all of them, I think I'm going back with my first idea: choose a specific period of time and focus on it

[bronze thicket]

sounds good - that’s probably how we’d organise it, split people up into month ranges

[amber fiber]

I'm finishing the picture for the banned characters, why was the trimming of spaces set up again ? Because of the leading space bug ?

[paper creek]

yes

[amber fiber]

ty

[amber fiber]

There we go, I made the changes that were suggested last time. I'm putting it with the other one in the sheet

Oops why is it like that

Better cropping will be in the sheet

[severe apex]

Why dont we do a video with powerpoint presentation slides like these and with BANGER transitions

@delicate yew what happened to laurasia?

[delicate yew]

um waiter !! the "last equal sign" policy has been observed to not 100% be the case, with it very rarely going for whats after the first equal sign instead 😡😡

[amber fiber]

Are you ready to make a slide for each subject Brent ?

[delicate yew]

The horrors, shes gotten addicted to puzzle games

and its YOUR FAULT.

[severe apex]

Every school subject? Sure!

[amber fiber]

And you're telling me this NOW ?

[delicate yew]

you shouldve never named Hashi, or maybe polaris couldve dodged this fate ..

[severe apex]

One less thing you and her have in common 😈

[delicate yew]

Just because you replaced my wife with a government-sponsored robot does not mean we have any less in common

i rarely play.. Some. puzzle games but only ones pertaining to words

[amber fiber]

I've decided to turn a blind eye to this for now since it's niche knowledge of a niche knowledge of a niche knowledge

[delicate yew]

you can never be too niche

Add a very tiny asterisk next to that sentence and put in the bottom left corner really small text clarifying it

[amber fiber]

Actually you might be the only person to know, I could just silence you right here

[delicate yew]

Nothing can silence me.

[amber fiber]

Actually do you have an example of a combination where this happens ? 🥺

Pwetty Pwease ?

[delicate yew]

making me have to dig through the laboratory ...

I at least know a starting point since i found that amidst my simulation testings but still a lot of looking

[delicate yew]

i checked between when i first used the simulation to when i mentioned "not all recipes go by the last equal" originally and i think i just hadnt bothered posting it in the lab .. i was """)ing at the time after all

Whats that one thing that shows usages for an element i can possibly find it by that

[amber fiber]

No proof then ? Excellent

(thank you for searching, I'll wishlist OneShot right away)

[nova fiber]

I mean I know a REALLY GOOD video maker that is on the server but sadly he only does french content

do i try contacting him anyways ?

[bronze thicket]

We have very strong evidence of the last equal sign

namely

We got something that was a “double cutoff”

it had the 20 token cutoff but then it only returned the bit after the last equal sign so it looked like a 10 token cutoff

something with fermats last theorem

[elder rose]

What I was calling for in that message was the experience and skills and not the content itself so, yeah, sure, that works

[last geyser]

@graceful lantern bartleby19

[graceful lantern]

gmorniiing :3 :3

[last geyser]

g'ftrnoon

:3

[fast lava]

gevening :3

[crimson shale]

gdawwwn :3

[bronze thicket]

Hate to say it but this is one of the few things keeping me here. I doubt I’d ever leave but interest decidedly will come and go especially with uni back next week. I’m always still working on the coding stuff even tho not much happening

[severe apex]

quit uni, join neal

priorities

[graceful lantern]

hey studies first!!

im gonna be straight (and not gay wth) with you, if we wait until summer holidays to all put our focus on documenting, writing and editing, so be it. People just wont put all their time into this it theyre not free. I totally get it

I've been busy myself with classes and personal projects

[bronze thicket]

I mean summer holidays is just ending for me now

[stray vine]

Why do you have summer holidays not in summer?

[bronze thicket]

sigh

I live in Australia

[stray vine]

makes sense then

[graceful lantern]

ah damn it

my bad

[stray vine]

i can confirm that it's not true

[primal veldt]

i was searching why clavino's name on optimisheet & stumbled on this... now you left me questionning why it would be nice to have three indonesians

is it some kind of reference to three musketeer

[primal veldt]

so you're not straight previously?

[graceful lantern]

i am gay as shit

im a trans woman AND i have a wife

:3 :3 :3

[primal veldt]

😮

[severe apex]

Youre married?

[crimson shale]

is the video being made

[bronze thicket]

Scribbles? Are you handwriting the script

[delicate yew]

Visuals

[bronze thicket]

I thought those were done

[bronze thicket]

Ye

[patent perch]

hi Niko

[paper creek]

nqoop?!?!?

@delicate yew hey kiyan thoughts about this?

[patent perch]

doing great !!

[delicate yew]

fuck you

dont disrespect My hmong brethren ,,

[severe apex]

hmong hs

[crimson shale]

hhhhh hh

[graceful lantern]

not yet!

[bronze thicket]

am I dumb or does “wife” not imply married

[stray vine]

Usually it does

[severe apex]

Im guessing the wedding is soon probably

[leaden sage]

[graceful lantern]

i just love her like that

its kind of a way to exaggerate to say how much i love her :3

[bronze thicket]

I see

[stray vine]

That’s good

[graceful lantern]

TW : Mention of 18+ content, mention of pedophilia / defense of pedophilia

Hey. This is a sensitive but important topic, and as much as i hate talking about this kind of shit on here i feel like everyone's opinion is important. I'm gonna say it straight, so feel free to ignore this message straight up if you want.

Endu was an extremely early contributor to the project, and helped with early other languages stuff like Japanese. His contribution to the project is undeniable.

I previously said i did not want to include him at all for reasons i wouldn't disclose publically, but was down to explain in private. I however realized this is not really only MY decision to take, and i'd like to explain. I also want to say this is not an exposal or whatever, i don't really give a shit of what you think about him specifically, i'm only asking and saying this for full disclosure, to know what your opinion on the production of the documentary / on the documentation of the project. I also am allowing myself to be clear about this, because Endu has made it clear in private he is open about this.

In the r/place osu discord, in 2022, conversations i personally find disgusting were circling around lolicon art. Endu started engaging in these conversations and interacting in pretty gross ways. In 2023, the server decided to go extra strict on these conversations, and it stopped there. After these events, Endu still openly defends lolicon content consumers as well as being a lolicon himself.

I don't care for any discourse about Endu HIMSELF. Any discourse about him that goes too far will get promptly deleted. I'm always opened to DMs asking my opinion (if you care) or wanting to discuss any other thing. What i want and need to know is whether or not you think we should include him in the video / other stuff or not. Do we include him in documentation but not in the video?

Thanks for reading and Please do not go harass him. You will suffer consequences.

[bronze thicket]

from what I remember didn’t we decide that they may not want to be included

[paper creek]

"pedophilia" in the tw is really misleading

[delicate yew]

Hey john

[paper creek]

if you want to avoid controversies just acknowledge his contributions without featuring him prominently

hello ,ko

[delicate yew]

you fucking ni stealer

[stray vine]

Racist

[bronze thicket]

what

[worthy garden]

double g a

[severe apex]

WOA WOA

[worthy garden]

it's a 3lw reference...

[severe apex]

U+0040MODIFICATIONS

[worthy garden]

oh no

[graceful lantern]

he said he wants to

[graceful lantern]

if you could give your opinion on this it'd be very nice instead of joking about the n word :/ k ty ty

[severe apex]

Poll?

[graceful lantern]

sure

[primal veldt]

z

[bronze thicket]

Well if he wants to then include them

Nobody needs to know or care about what someone thinks or does that’s not related

[delicate yew]

Would we include hitler himself if he got a unicode character

[graceful lantern]

Reason i want to avoid having someone associated to these things be in this is that i don't want anyone in here, editors, scriptwriters, players and contributors or others to be associated by viewers who'd happen to learn about the situation, to be associated with such behavior

but that's 100% personal

[bronze thicket]

I mean, I guess there’s limits - if he found one we could get around it

but that’s because everyone already knows

May sound dumb but I’m not much of a believer in being able to invalidate achievements

sure I understand

But it does not feel fair to me to not recognise a significant contribution

[severe apex]

How many?

Also not really any point in argueing rn. Better to focus on the actual video content itself first. Because if there won’t be a video, there wont be issues about crediting or not

[primal veldt]

i guess you volunteered...

[bronze thicket]

lol true

[graceful lantern]

.

[graceful lantern]

need to keep doing this

too busy ughhh

[crimson shale]

is unassigned being considered?

[midnight topaz]

Idk the whole project is not considered tbh

[teal crypt]

holy shit yall actually got them all?

what an effort, I wish I stuck around for the full thing

I think I still have my old save file on my phone somewhere

heres my old save file, idk if it helps the effort for documentation sakes, I know I definitely had a good amount of unicode discoveries and some helper elements as well

[midnight topaz]

Thanks, I should find a way to bring attention to here lol

[teal crypt]

it'd be a tedious effort but id wait till most arent stressing about finals and whatnot

and then start reaching out to every known contributor

itll spark enough interest to get the ball rolling

I submitted the save file to infinibrowser.wiki and it looks like half were already submitted, which makes sense

[midnight topaz]

By the way it #dev peoples optimized lineage generation

[teal crypt]

im confused, what do you mean by that?

[severe apex]

They make things better so lineage (recipe trees) can be automatically made shorter

[teal crypt]

oh thats cool, does the site automatically do that?

[severe apex]

Infinibrowser does that
(It doesnt do 100% best lineages, but its the best we got)

[teal crypt]

thats pretty sweet

looks like none of the unicodes I found werent contributable to the site, I assume that means someone else found them and they uploaded them later on, correct?

especially if the unicode project is already finished id imagine

[severe apex]

Im not sure if all of them are on the site, but I know a lot of them are

@silver willow actually could you check how many assigned obtainable unicode characters are on the site?

[silver willow]

not sure how do i check assigned

[severe apex]

Im not sure either.
In theory, if someone were to have a txt file with all of them. Would you be able to check with that?

Or would that be too big (I think 150k?)

[teal crypt]

wait I was quite the goat in my prime

[silver willow]

yes

[severe apex]

Whatre your best fds?

[teal crypt]

LMAO back in my day we didnt have any fancy shmancy code point nonsense

[silver willow]

i have my own tool to do just that

[teal crypt]

just chucking random shit together

[teal crypt]

uhhh lemme look

I think my best contributions werent even unicodes but rather some terms early on that were pretty responsive in creating new ones

gotta dig through

[severe apex]

https://tenor.com/view/pointing-up-this-facts-true-agree-gif-12820301237865435531

[silver willow]

chucking random shit together makes better lineages cause tech takes a shitton of steps

[teal crypt]

Reverse Text was one

I used to have them pinned but it looks like my save file didnt keep that info

[stray vine]

Btw all of the old userscripts don’t work anymore

But you can use the new helper

[severe apex]

I think the actual json file keeps that info, just not shown on infinibrowser

[teal crypt]

oh okaya

[stray vine]

https://github.com/InfiniteCraftCommunity/userscripts/tree/master/userscripts/natasquare/helper

[silver willow]

yea the analyzer never supported pinned elements

[teal crypt]

ah unfortunate, just updated but I still dont see my pinned ones

[severe apex]

Mhm there isnt really a need to

[teal crypt]

it was filled was some goodies that made unicodes pretty consistently

[severe apex]

Is there a send as file on mobile discord?

Oops didnt mean to reply

[teal crypt]

should be yeah

[teal crypt]

I have my save file up here

[severe apex]

Sorry for the spam, but cant find the button on discord mobile to put as file

Oh discord mobile doesnt even say its over char cap

One sec lemme figure something out

Just copied it out of the savefile you sent

[teal crypt]

hell yeah

that was my toolkit

that was the shit right there thank you

I remember emoji unicode working very very well for me

[severe apex]

Was just about to say "nice fd" for it lol

[teal crypt]

I miss this game

I dont know if id have the same joy playing it anymore though considering that I feel like everything is kind of solved

and the mystery isnt quite there for me anymore

[severe apex]

Yeah a bunch of people left as well, probably for that same reason

In #1215495041049436170 its almost solely the near impossible requests left

[teal crypt]

I see I see

[silver willow]

switching to llama3 would definitely make the game a bit more interesting again

but we already have so much

[severe apex]

Llama4 exists now aswell, so neal might just go to 4 immediately

[silver willow]

4 is stupid

[severe apex]

Fair

But it’ll get better

[silver willow]

and afaik it was even worse than 3 on many tests

[teal crypt]

that reminds me, I remember (maybe incorrectly) that there were some stuff we made that later became uncreatable, is that correct

I think I remember creating a couple links

[silver willow]

there could be some fun in trying to discover new tech but its really easy given we can just search previously made elements and most likely some of them will work, so you dont even need to try to get anything in the first place

and there's nothing much to do really, all the big projects are already done

and FDs used to be a lot cooler in the past

[teal crypt]

im sure theres probably elements people have made that can just create anything letter by letter now, right?

[severe apex]

There are VERY little examples of recipes changing results but they do exist.

Also a couple elements got banned from being made by neal
E.g. Terrorist

• elements can have a trailing or leading space (neal tried to fix a bug)
• NEWLY created elements can’t have a spaced plus in them(+)
  (Previously done recipes for them still exist though)

[silver willow]

yes thats what tech is

[severe apex]

Things like
"a" + "b" = "ab"
(game usually combines alphabetically)

[teal crypt]

does this count as a spaced plus? looked through my save file

its only one end

[severe apex]

No its like
A + A

[teal crypt]

ah, gotchya

[silver willow]

it doesnt work all of the time obviously because its ai

[severe apex]

Oh you probably dont know, but we’ve managed to extract the prompt for
Element1 + Element2
(We asked neal and he confirmed it)

[teal crypt]

oh.

[silver willow]

there's some other stuff around it though, no? or is that the entire prompt

[severe apex]

Same element combination has a different prompt though and we only know one recipe of that prompt for sure

[teal crypt]

thats a bit disheartening, and definitely takes away from any leftover mystery for this game 😭

[severe apex]

Idk, iirc neal told mika "yeah thats it"

[silver willow]

iirc we found a 320 letter element (longest possible ever) using AI

[severe apex]

It does explain a bunch of random elements occurring out of nowhere though, which was cool

[teal crypt]

is it possible to still create new links? for example

[severe apex]

I think so? Dont quote me on that though

[teal crypt]

could have sworn that was made impossible at some point

okay, still possible

just made a couple new ones

[midnight topaz]

czar you might wanna check the element Discounting Crows

It’s pretty interesting one

[teal crypt]

🤨

as in the recipe is interesting?

[midnight topaz]

No, the element behavior is interesting

[teal crypt]

okay okay

let me check this out for myself then

what is going on here

is this breaking the prompt? the responses seems like the AI describing its reasoning

[midnight topaz]

Yeah

We call it prompt breakers

[teal crypt]

😂 guess I was on the nose

[midnight topaz]

Fun Fact: In A-Z is on infinibrowser and you would have some fun with it lol

[teal crypt]

😭 😭 😭 😭

where can I find the prompt that was supposedly confirmed?

[teal crypt]

its so impressive that yall managed to find this out

unbelievable

unrelated, I remember getting this and losing it for a moment

[severe apex]

Which variant is it?

[teal crypt]

U+110BF

https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+110BF

it was apart of the kaithi language block I had fded

"Kaithi Double Section Mark"

[tiny merlin]

/firstmessage

how do i see first message

[cyan portal]

Scroll up

[silver willow]

lmao what

[languid crater]

discounting crows? lol I experiment that a lot

actually any element that begins with Discounting makes ai have weird behavior

[wraith mason]

There's still lots of unassigned unicode codepoints that can be found

[azure dagger]

ghtrlklrso

[hazy sorrel]

A lot are quite hard to get tho

[vapid lake]

rip

[tame hatch]

I haven't given up on this yet, I'll continue to try to make progress

[golden sky]

ok

[prisma ravine]

List of ='s (no one asked):

1. U+2a75 ⩵
2. U+225f ≟
3. U+ff1d ＝
4. U+fe66 ﹦

[paper creek]

2013? pretty sure discord tos requires you to be 13+..

[crimson shale]

yeah, what does this 2k13 stands for 🤔

[prisma ravine]

Just like my age lol

[midnight topaz]

So you’re 2013 years old?

[prisma ravine]

What 😇

Born in

[midnight topaz]

Interesting

[paper creek]

i mean he pretty much confirmed it now so probably worth a temp ban

[crimson shale]

so your less than 13

[azure dagger]

hhhahahahahha

[patent perch]

gg

[dark kestrel]

did we hit a wall

or did we finish it

[paper creek]

wall

[crimson shale]

I did some unassigned

now what

should I wait to these being added?

[vapid lake]

you're prolly gonna have to wait for a long while lol, there's been no proposals/suggestions at all for 3exxx

[crimson shale]

are all unassigned that are becoming assigned made?

[vapid lake]

uhm..

yeah

[crimson shale]

damn

I think I'm not getting in the video any soon

[silver willow]

i keep thinking about making a video for SoME about lineages and other complicated stuff behind infinite craft

last year was unsuccessful

there's still time for SoME4

but ehh

ideally i shouldve started working on the video like a few months earlier before SoME started

[dark kestrel]

is SoME some type of exams?

[paper creek]

summer of math exposition

[midnight topaz]

Go for some5

[patent perch]

that would be hype

[uncut remnant]

wheres the video

[hazy sorrel]

there none for the moment

[crimson shale]

guys

please put something about unassigned Unicode characters

something like "all assigned Unicode characters were found, but you can still contribute if you want, new gen players like FuracãoGR still trying to get unassigned characters, progress is slow, but you can join us using the official IC Discord"

i want to be on the video so bad

[silver willow]

i can be good at writing long texts but it requires so much motivation that i just never really have so i didnt even get to writing the script yet

and now im starting to doubt the initial topic of the video

it doesnt really sound that interesting considering the lineage generation problem is not even fully solved yet

[vapid lake]

ngl if we are gonna talk about unassigned it would probably about alfo

[silver willow]

i also really want to make some video on all the tech, how it was found, how it works, some history behind it, etc

did you all use tech in unicode

this could be a cool topic to add to the video

[vapid lake]

i think this is quite a good explanation

[silver willow]

i mean it could also be expanded further to mention other huge accomplishments but idk at all

i mean, it is called "how a group of players solved infinite craft", so...

[crimson shale]

"How a group of players made thanK you aIMee in Infinite Craft"

[cyan portal]

Not clickbait enough no one outside of IC knows how hard it is

[crimson shale]

"HOW a group of PLAYERS broke INFINITE CRAFT's AI"

wait

"HOW a group of players BROKE Infinite Craft's AI"

[cyan portal]

How a group of players found infinite craft's hardest element (thumbnail: thousands of attempts [however many] months)

[azure dagger]

video?

forgot to reply

[midnight topaz]

The GREATEST challenge in Infinite Craft…

[subtle island]

.

[crimson shale]

yes

[violet drift]

hi

[formal thistle]

Hi

[violet drift]

hi

[crimson shale]

docu

ment

ary

howagroupofplayerscompletedinfinitecraft

[violet drift]

Ok but we still gotta find .

any ideas

honestly my theory would be an error when trying to access DB for . but idk

[crimson shale]

iiiiiiiiiiiimpossible

you can still "try" to get the missing control chars

[violet drift]

with sim or

[crimson shale]

ig you wont

[violet drift]

I LOVE TOKEN BIAS /s

yeah i DONT HAVE SIM (and i don't know where to start anyways so)

[crimson shale]

we e e e e e e

f a d i n g

[violet drift]

like what unicode did get finished

like are all surrogate codepoints found

and all valid* combinations of those surrogates

[crimson shale]

surrogates?

I mean we got all assigned ones

like real ones you will find in every fint

*font

almos

[violet drift]

wdym almost

oh right control chars have a font representation don't they

[crimson shale]

yeah sometimes it's just hard to show delete

[delete]

[obj]

[del]

[crimson shale]

what's that

[violet drift]

ok so

[crimson shale]

ok so

[violet drift]

take the 'bell' character for example

that's U+0007 and represents the sound of a bell

[crimson shale]

ok

[violet drift]

U+2407 is a unicode character that 'represents' that character

U+2407 is, of course, NOT U+0007

but if you put both of them together then they may look identical (on some fonts)

[crimson shale]

so we should have got it right?

[violet drift]

U+0007 idk if yall got it bc it's a control char

you probably would have U+2407 though

[crimson shale]

no

from 0000 to 001f nothing is made

amd equal sign

and period

and space replacers

like 00a0

or 202f

etc

[violet drift]

yeah bc whitespace chars are impossible ik

U+2407 has been obtained (I just checked)

Copy Paste + U+0007 = {=U+2407=}

[crimson shale]

you know what that means... uafhioa4hfuoa4HFNOA4HNFGAHUTFGAHRTGAWEROFGAUIWHUFGFGUJJHJHJHjiajfgarfgjhnioarno

[violet drift]

nvm apparently this is what bell looks like for me

idk why it's a bullet point 😭

actually ig it depends on the textbox

[crimson shale]

I don't think that looks even remotely like a bell

B
E
L

I found the bel

[crimson shale]

ACRE MENTIONED 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦖🦖🦖🦖🦖🦖🦖🦖🦖🦖🦖🦖🦕🦕🦕🦕🦕🦕🦕🦕🦕🦕🦕🦕

[violet drift]

that's a K

A C K

[crimson shale]

oh it ack

damn 😭😢🥺

iirc uafhioa4hfuoa4HFNOA4HNFGAHUTFGAHRTGAWEROFGAUIWHUFGFGUJJHJHJHjiajfgarfgjhnioarno was made during llama 3.1

iirc it's 007f

[violet drift]

no 7f is delete

yeah i think how it renders is based on

• what textbox? (so what's the "fallback"/"default" font
• is it an actual control character or just a "pretender" (if that makes sense)

[crimson shale]

it was indeed 7f

#1206592567622373446 message

[urban raven]

absolutely not, any char with the first byte being \xF1, \xF2 or \xF4 haven't been obtained

(aka ranges 40000-bffff, 100000-10ffff)

[violet drift]

wait what

isn't that like impossible in javascript

because javascript uses utf-16 i think

[urban raven]

i meant utf8 bytes

[violet drift]

what

utf 8

oh like as in

llama has never giving f1/f2/f4 first so any utf-16 surrogates which form a unicode char which has that first when in utf-8 can't be made?

[urban raven]

just look at the tokenization (for 40000)

3ffff is f0 bf bf bf

i guess the ai just doesn't know how to output them

[violet drift]

that's the utf-8 encoding i think

yep

it's weird

llama uses utf-8 but js uses utf-16

and actual unicode characters can be utf-32 ignore this

[urban raven]

also that's why we have \xf3 chars, because of variation selectors

[violet drift]

oh i think I see maybe

idk utf-8 and utf-16 mixing is confusing

😕

😥

[midnight topaz]

001b is made

Well, by the individual

[crimson shale]

what is 001b

what does it represent?

what does it control

[midnight topaz]

It controls you

[crimson shale]

Y
O
U

[crimson shale]

where

[crimson shale]

where's the 1b recipe

[urban raven]

all controls (excluding whitespaces) are made, in fact

it's just they were using other controls that were alive for no reason (01 03 07 1b)

[crimson shale]

but how did they get the first one

[urban raven]

the individual

(we have no idea)

[crimson shale]

damn

that's

why doesn't he share

[indigo fern]

it's been like almost a year are you guys still doing this

[violet drift]

hello

i might make a few hour video on thanK you aIMee

just being a crafting tutorial

id7k tho

[devout ember]

Have we successfully crafted every single Unicode character known to exist in the dataset for the AI model used for IC, or are there still some undiscovered Unicode characters left?

[crimson shale]

we got every single assigned one*****
we are still missing some whitespaces because they're automatically trimmed and most control chars (we only got {7B} and {9})

[dark kestrel]

how players BROKE AI..

the thumbnail is like 3 people breaking chatgpt in half, to reveal cogs and gears inside

im going to go make an iceberg, i want it to have like around 50 different topics, probably 5 different depths
might change the numbers

nevermind it will have 8

[violet drift]

is #q near the middle

what ab llama 3

(+ emoji is llama 3 now iirc)

[dark kestrel]

this is it so far, im doing based on the average person who played IC, got a few First discoveries, then quit

(below the water is stuff found pretty much only on discord)

[violet drift]

add #q slides

add control chars

add llama sim

i dont know 27th oct incident by that name btw

add zombies

[dark kestrel]

#q will be the jeremy

[violet drift]

add dead elements & revivals

[violet drift]

slides

[dark kestrel]

there not its seperate thing

[violet drift]

eszett and other edge case uppercase/lowercase

put 'equals sign is impossible' too

wait thats banned words nvm

(and + ofc)

[dark kestrel]

what other name are you thinking?

[violet drift]

like i dont know what 27 oct means

was that swap to llama 3??

or something?

nvm found it #1233405406265610260 message

[dark kestrel]

27th october incident sounds "creepier"

i want it to be top is innocent and everyone knows
bottom is confusing, a little creepy and very few know

[violet drift]

put math bold alphabet and String. too

[dark kestrel]

i think first two layers are done

[violet drift]

LIKE DEAD ELEMENTS ARE IMPORTANT THO PLEASE HAVE A RED ELLIPSE/CIRCLE/ETC AROUND DEAD ELEMENTS PLSSSSSSS

🥺🥺🥺

[dark kestrel]

instead of math bold, we do Alt latin alphabet

because there's also other bolded characters

[violet drift]

uhh then fake spaces

eg underscore hashtag 202f a0

(nbsp)

and fake capitals

eg math alphabet, hebrew, other (getCraftResponse, anti the holic)

[dark kestrel]

what is getCraftResponse

i know the request

[violet drift]

famous awwm requesg

[dark kestrel]

but what is it used for

[violet drift]

id7k

i think a userscript's "console craft"

actually no nvm id7k

[dark kestrel]

anything else?

other do some need to change tiers?

[tacit stag]

unquote bug (2024 late march-early april)

[dark kestrel]

is that the same as validation endpoint?

[tacit stag]

every "a" + "b" combination would unquote

[violet drift]

"hi " Tech and curlies

null

make ib black bc it blends in with the iceberg

maybe U+0020 (Uladder incident?)

[dark kestrel]

black makes it worse

[violet drift]

show me

pls

[dark kestrel]

curlies will be a different one, i made one called Hashtag and Unplural which will include basic "" and curlies and ' '

[violet drift]

then call it

[violet drift]

string tech

and hashtag tech

[violet drift]

yeah but that's a bit word

use a shorter word in black

and put it in the white bit

imo

[dark kestrel]

i found another way, but i need another topic

what about like youtubers and stuff

[violet drift]

hear me out: text lineages

like those

A + B = C
...
stuff

ok maybe not

[dark kestrel]

would someone outside of this know that?

im thinking about youtubers, but idk who

[violet drift]

autocrafters

eg console craft (sorta)

[dark kestrel]

theres like smallant, suda

codesloth

[violet drift]

the codez🥺🥺🥺🥺 - people maybe

id7k

[dark kestrel]

i added some more

[violet drift]

add advanced jeremy

we have standard jereme

but then we have stuff like

:=, let, > A (custom suffix), CFOP recipe

[violet drift]

https://discord.com/channels/1203527044957208596/1253293424891924562*

get name right pls🥺

[dark kestrel]

ill just lump it in with jeremy, i want more surface level stuff, like tier 3, 4 and 5

[dark kestrel]

i've finished for today, ill continue later

[devout ember]

I was thinking alt Latin alphabet could go under the same section as "hi " Tech and Mr. Tech.

[languid crater]

A + A prompt

[languid crater]

nope, it's always called tya tech

picube will never get what he wants

[devout ember]

I refer to it as both #q tech and tya tech

[dark kestrel]

like .alphabet, !alphabet etc.?

[dark kestrel]

that'll probably go into llama 70b, which will include simulation

[dark kestrel]

im calling it jeremy, because it creates more mystery and isn't just some letters or hashtags
whoever makes the video can name it whatever they want, im leaving it as jeremy

or if you want i can call it roberto

[devout ember]

Yes, it would include things like "alphabet", “alphabet”, 'alphabet', .alphabet, ~alphabet, and !alphabet

[dark kestrel]

ill just put Altphabets in tier 4

[languid crater]

who could forget the autocrafter incident

[dark kestrel]

with active?

[languid crater]

also if we have the poseidon problem do we also have to include the boulder provlem too

[dark kestrel]

its the same as poseidon problem, just with boulder, not anything new to talk about
and on the technical wiki it says its effectively disproven

[tacit stag]

QE theory

[dark kestrel]

whats that

oh that

i mixed the things, oops

to add:

• QE
• altphabets
• autocrafting

[paper creek]

add neal case at the very bottom

maybe include dotted I too

[dark kestrel]

i was thinking about adding nealcase, but i guess that it could be added in with Dead/Alive elements

idk what dotted i is

[dark kestrel]

i might add it to the bottom, ill see how much we have later on

[dark kestrel]

im going to just call it autocrafting and hopefully whoever does the video talks about activetutorial

[paper creek]

dead/alive with start case is more known than actual neal case

[dark kestrel]

i thought neal case was start case

[paper creek]

neal case has so much weird behavior, like astral plane characters not getting uppercased

[dark kestrel]

what about the dotted i? whats that

im going to add another layer, because theres so much at the bottom

[dark kestrel]

ive looked at it and it seems its more like weird unicode behaviour
i probably will add it if there are more examples

Updated Version
side notes:
Media - might have been introduced to IC through people like SmallAnt and Suda
Dead/Alive - talk about CamelCase and Start Case, and briefly talk about Neal Case
The Poseidon Problem - also mention the boulder problem
QE Theory - alot of people know what it is, just not the name
Llama 70b - also talk about llama simulations, and A + B = C

[crimson shale]

add Nothing

Neal case should be that low

[dark kestrel]

its with impossible/banned words

[crimson shale]

nothing is a special case

[dark kestrel]

how

[crimson shale]

Neal only banned Nothing because the AI would rarely output it on random scenarios (just like undefined bug) which would be strange for new players (like how ? still confuses people to this day, also, add it to the iceberg) but he didn't ban other caps of nothing

since AI would hardly ever output them

[dark kestrel]

if not with impossible/banned words add it to the null/undefined

[crimson shale]

fine

also add ?/???

[dark kestrel]

no

[devout ember]

The one involving Active Tutorial? I actually have his auto crafter script installed (found it through a link on here that wasn't deleted by a mod). Though I was also capable of finding his auto crafter relatively easily through Google with the right search terms. I was surprised that it worked for the current IC.

[dark kestrel]

not enough to talk about

[midnight topaz]

add blank element, c0 controls, llama flash incident, double prompt

[crimson shale]

zombie should be lower imo
add Tallest Element
Add doom in infinite craft
if you don't want to add both just add something like "beta update peculiarities" or idk

[midnight topaz]

what

[crimson shale]

tya Tech.

thanK you aIMee Tech

boom

💥

[midnight topaz]

actually i think cutoff/double cutoff should be included

[crimson shale]

also + cuttof

[midnight topaz]

Some Ideas for future recontinuation

I personally think the ideal unicode documentary can start with how IC started and technical community arised, since iirc every unicode was suggested there,

and we should continue video with the “main” tech at the time - blockade - breakthrough, and new blockade, and new breakthrough, repeat..

while we can go a bit out of step for certain interesting stuffs like {05ef} or {0407} iirc

[crimson shale]

something like showing how we developed these tech?

[dark kestrel]

are blank elements like fake spaces?
idk what the llama flash incident is
nor the double prompt

[dark kestrel]

what is doom in infinite craft

[tacit stag]

maybe double prompt refers to separate combination prompts (the one with King and the one with Boulder)

[dark kestrel]

ill make one called Hacked Elements

if errorplex isnt sure about double prompt then its probably at the bottom

[dark kestrel]

if i move zombies lower, then ill also move dead/alive lower

[crimson shale]

nah

zombies are weird

like def weirder than alive/dead elements

[dark kestrel]

if you know dead and alive elements then you know zombies

[crimson shale]

no

at least not me

[dark kestrel]

yes
i learnt dead elements first then zombies then alive

[dark kestrel]

i changed some stuff around

do you know about the llama flash incident?

[crimson shale]

by name no

also

what's the 27/10 incident

[dark kestrel]

llama 3

[crimson shale]

if I would guess the llama flash incident was when Neal changed the games AI to llama 2 turbo something

[dark kestrel]

hmm, so if thats what picube is refering to, then i think i already have everything picube said

[dark kestrel]

can you remove Marijuana Goddess World in AWWM please

[crimson shale]

ok

[dark kestrel]

thank 🗣️

[violet drift]

thanK you speaking_head

[dark kestrel]

literally me

[midnight topaz]

Yeah that

[violet drift]

ok so like derivation and AI logic?

[midnight topaz]

Yeah

Also there's some "genius" strats like dagger

[violet drift]

what is dagger???

[violet drift]

..okay...????m(???((((m.,,huj

new request

[midnight topaz]

that was some amazing tactic for one stubborn unicode character

[violet drift]

bruh

what happened to

"[/inst]" + †

😭

[devout ember]

That was a very interesting combination to unlocking one of the Unicode characters.

[midnight topaz]

element containing dagger was first discovered with that and unquoting

[dark kestrel]

there will never be a video

[indigo fern]

searching for a documentary which doesn't exist