enfusion_physics

[crystal berry]

Whats the prefix for capsule colliders

[willow crane]

ask ai

UCS_

[terse crag]

Does ApplyForce work on vehicles? On my end ApplyImpulse per frame works fine, but ApplyForce does not seem to work

[lyric marlin]

force is impulse over time, and the vehicle simulation seems to override force

[stone parcel]

Physics devs on Enf recommend sticking with impulses usually

[civic coral]

Might be the wrong place, but how would one go about making a version of the ApproachRadar_TPN19_01.et that's destructible? Not necessarily with any effects, just that if you put something near it that goes bang it is destroyed

[woven salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/ghost-ping-when-i-get-a-ghost-gif-21411945

[clear frost]

Alright super niche question here.

I have a tunnel system under the map. The issue im having is when player collide with another entity, like another player, or a tunnel wall, a certain way they are snapped to the terrain above the tunnel.

Does anyone know what might handle that process or have a good idea for an alternative method? Basically I have a teleportation system where you interact with an "entrance" and it ports you into a bethesda style tunnel network

They function perfectly above the terrain, but when above the map the AI can no longer walk. if I have the tunnel system low enough in the sky to be within simulation range, then people would see it in the world.

[crystal berry]

Just something random to try. But you could try putting the underground tunnel on the terrain layer

[clear frost]

I'll give it a shot

[clear frost]

no dice :(

theres some sort of behavior that I think is meant to prevent players from falling under the map

[clear frost]

alright I found a work around. I can increase the simulation range in the sky, by creating a tiny spire of land in the corner of the map.

But I have concerns abouut the performance changes that increasing the worlds volume would have.

[lavish lion]

This is also why actual terrain hole is not there yet

[crystal berry]

Yet..nice

[south umbra]

So far it works well with what you guys did to have object meshes being able to have the same shader materials like terrain has so you dont notice it visual that you got covered your prepared hole for your subterran mesh but having the option to sculpt holes directly into the terrain would be nice..

Is this even possible by using heightmaps or will there be a second heightmap in use which is connected to the first like layers?

[crystal berry]

In unity I used a tool that did it by voxelizing the parts of the terrain that we were deformed with digging.

[timber flame]

I like the way Unigine does it. You have terrain heightmaps in layers with blend modes like photoshop. You can add layers at runtime to modify the terrain however you want. For holes you just put some special layer with hole shape.

[crystal berry]

That is interesting. So it has to support multiple terrains then yes? That would be useful for other things also if we could get multiterrain support.

[timber flame]

Yea it supports multiple terrains also, you can load/unload them from memory to have world of any size.

[crystal berry]

Nice yeah streaming is mandatory. But I was wanting multi terrain support for terrain expansions. So that would be really cool for both things

[normal heron]

Anyone know why my structures/constructions have no collision after I close the world editor and come back?

[upbeat quest]

if creating a terrain, might be more relevant in the #enfusion_terrain channel.

But be careful, you've already cross-posted to multiple channels. May wanna delete the other messages first so an admin doesn't smite you for cross-posting

[normal heron]

thanks

[crystal berry]

Can add a thrust point gizmo to visualize it's transform on VehicleBuoyancyComponent ?

[wide egret]

How do I correctly enable collision on a wreck? After a vehicle is destroyed, the wreck falls through the terrain. The colliders are set up

[hidden tide]

I figured it out. You need to set the direction of the prefab to be that of the same launch direction otherwise physics some times doesn't update it right
~~
Can any one explain why launching a shell with same exact position/velocity/direction, ect the shells land. Randomly like 5% of the shells are go somewhere else?
~~
No wind

Left = 95% where all shells land
Right = 5%

[topaz iris]

I’m creating a Merlin helicopter and need some help.

When I start the helicopter it does this huge spin on the spot to the right presumably because of the Rotor Torque but I can’t seam to find a fix for it no matter what I do in HeliSimComponent

I’ve made a lot of helicopters in the past and it only seams to affect larger sized models.

Any help is appreciated please!

[topaz iris]

Nvm fixed it, anyone looking for this in the future: Try increasing inertia on the Y axis

[mortal verge]

2nd derivative PID FC

[crystal berry]

Can anybody help me out why my wheel colliders aren't registering / importing?

[willow crane]

💀

wheel colliders are separate from body

[crystal berry]

Yeah you mean use the slot system? Yeah was planning on it but didn't think that would prevent it from showing the colliders on the import settings. I'll check it thanks.

[median field]

Change to UCL

I also see you're using one of my plugins for blender. This is not 100% done but leagues better than the old one now.

delete the old one and add this. Dont unzip it, just add the whole zip in addons

You also dont need to set a collision for the wheel like that anymore i believe. The physical collision will be on the wheel itself, but add that collision you have as a minetrigger layer. You can also do that on the wheel itself too. But here using my tool, just select the mesh you want and click on the collision it will auto adjust to the wheel

[crystal berry]

Awesome thank you very much!

[crystal berry]

I think there is a bug lol. It worked for FR and RL wheels but did this for the other 2.

I can send you the .blend if you want it to debug your tool.

[median field]

dm me it
but you might have a mesh thats not seperated fully. Its not a set Front,rear preset it uses the mesh you have selected. So fully seperate the wheel first

[crystal berry]

Ok yeah they are all separated fully. I sent it.

[median field]

its not i redid it on this wheel and now its works fine

[crystal berry]

Ok my bad ty

[crystal berry]

This is how it is on mine I dont understand what I need to change?

And it's doing it for all wheels now lol. I think maybe its a blender cache issue or something.

[median field]

just clicked on the wheel went to edit mode and selected all faces i could find on the wheel ctrl +

and then sepearte again

[low helm]

What is required to get objects to react to projectiles? I can get them to react dynamically to just about everything except projectiles and explosions. Feel like I've tried every layer preset/ collider type possible but still nothing. Is it tied to specific ent classes? Thanks

[south umbra]

Dont know what you exactly mean maybe try out BuildingFireView if you mean these settings

[low helm]

the balls dont react to explosions or projectiles. Basically want them to move when hit with a bullet or explosive. If I use my character to run into them, they react to character, just not projectiles.

[south umbra]

Try to use BuildingFireView if it works (should be CollisionHitCantLookTrough)

[low helm]

I'll try but BuildingFireView is for static ents

[south umbra]

Also do you have UCX or UTM? Ive noticed for my HeadGear when ive accidently used(didnt know) UTM i wasnt able to make it working to shoot it down of head

[low helm]

tried it with each individually and both at same time

I setup colliders the same as vehicles are setup since those react to explosions and still nothing. Assuming its the ent class and maybe an additional component

they will roll down a hill and destroy tress in their path but dont care about any projectiles or explosives

[south umbra]

Weird.. i dont have enough experience in the new Enfusion Engine yet so i cant help more.. im sure someone could help out here.. is there no other vanilla object acting like you need to get a insight of its added components?

I know this sounds weird now.. but this poop has physics when you hit it with bullet it moves/rolls away.. 😅 also it gets deleted after.. probably this poop has what you need

[low helm]

omg thats exactly what i need🤣 whats that building called?

nvm found it

[south umbra]

dont know if it helps, would be funny 🤣

[low helm]

hilarious either way, especially since i just went hunting for a turd prefab haha. Seems like the movement after shooting it is just part of the destruction multi phase so not like what im looking for. I do wonder if collider needs to be a capsule since thats what characters use and the turd haha

[south umbra]

Try it, maybe its the solution

[deep slate]

Hey, idk if i have to ask it here, but i placed a wall but i can go through it, how add physic to it please ?

[crystal berry]

You probably placed a mesh instead of a prefab.

[quick jetty]

When applying physics to a tracked vehicle how do I use bones

[chilly marsh]

here ya go

change sim state to simulation and response index to one of the momentums and it should work

and make sure you have your layer preset as one that interacts with the environment

[chilly marsh]

so also make sure your collider is set up properly

[low helm]

yeah already had sim state, and response index setup properly according to wiki and have tried every combo possible, object will react to player/vehicles pushing against it, roll around on sloped terrain etc but nothing from explosives projectiles. Only thing I can think of is its missing a required component but not sure what it would be

collider is parented to armature too

[pearl elbow]

Hi everyone, I need some help with the simulation settings for a helicopter. As soon as I activate AutoHover, the helicopter starts constantly rocking forward and backward.
What settings could be causing this? Thanks.

[lyric marlin]

Helicopter is too maneuverable or not maneuverable enough, coupled with speed force (angular), so basically if you pull on the cyclic and the forces compound and releasing it causes the helicopter to continue swinging that direction, auto hover will be bad, because essentially auto hover doesn’t know its input is going to blast the helicopter past what is desired (or it can’t react quick enough to settle it when it’s close)

A dirty fix is messing with speed forces and trying to use the one from the UH-1 as a test

[indigo pivot]

can there something be done about the MI-8 spinning upon starting or shutting down the engine? it keeps causing so many unnecessary conflicts and death in PVP

[scenic trench]

It’s called torque

[lyric marlin]

What the other guy said. Inertia on it could be recomputed in world editor and landing gear made more grippy, but besides that not a whole lot can be done

[indigo pivot]

It‘s highly doubt its torque! Maybe just disable the wheels, until they work properly? I mean… the brake hardly works anyway. Once you’re rolling with it, there’s no steering or stopping

[scenic trench]

That happens because the tail rotor upon starting up or shutting down the engine is not providing enough force to counter the main rotor, so it spins

[hybrid ember]

what layer preset do i need in order to drive vehicles on an object? i currently have UTM_VC but tires just spin.

[blissful pasture]

terrain, asphalt, concrete

[pine vine]

That's a soft body ain't it?

[shadow aspen]

How do I give 3d models a collision? I always fall through the mountain.

[hidden tide]

How can i apply physics impulse to a player while they are standing still? It seems like applying an impulse only works while the player's velocity is greater then zero?

Physics physics = player.GetPhysics();
physics.ApplyImpulse("0 500 0");

Nothing happens when player is still. However if i walk forward and call this, it does work.

[elfin belfry]

You need to add colliders to it. You can definitely find info on them in the modding channels, or the wiki.
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:FBX_Import#Collider_shape

[shadow aspen]

Now its getting very laggy when Im flying towards the mountain with a helicopter

[rapid kestrel]

Anyone have any insight on the potential for a trailer hitch type mechanic. But not for a trailer. For a person pulling something. Have a picture for clarity if anyone is interested.

[ruby shadow]

Why do shell projectiles have gravity when their mass is 0

[frosty lintel]

Because Enfusion simulates relativistic spacetime curvature which affects even the course of massless objects like photons
Or because all mass of game objects is negligible when compared to the mass of planets and can be ignored in gravitational calculations
I'll let you decide which one to believe

[ruby shadow]

Just a bug

[hidden sluice]

That’s a known quirk with how Enfusion handles player physics impulses won’t register properly when the character controller is in an idle grounded state

[hidden tide]

😭

Okay. I want to ragdoll the player and apply an impulse. but same issue happens where in an idle state no impulse is applied. Anyway around this? Perhaps i'm not getting the ragdoll rigidbody properly? Is there a special way to get that ragdoll rigidbody?

[ruby shadow]

Seems like projectile mass still doesnt do anything?

[haughty stag]

Hey guys, I have a problem—the collider for my vest has shifted, and I don't know why. Any ideas?

[real hearth]

did you apply transforms before export? the collider can only be parented to 1 bone too (spine 5 for vest)

[pine vine]

Anybody good with collisions or colliders

[tranquil rapids]

Use blender

There is a tools for colliders

https://youtu.be/-h9_eOCZh7U?si=Rz0uDTR7MiOq3djU

this video is good

[ruby shadow]

how can I prevent hierarchy entities from affecting physics of parent? if I put a turret on something and apply impulse it moves the center of mass

[ruby shadow]

also why is it that once the entity crosses certain velocity, applying the same torque as before makes the torque apply as if it was multiplied by 100?

[ruby shadow]

some of my issues got resolved after checking "merge physics" in hierarchy component but now workbench crashes without crash report when exiting play mode, jesus christ

[ember iris]

can someone help me start somewhere with my mod?

i am trying to add cloth physics to clothing items that changes based on wind

[lyric marlin]

potentially impractical starter project, but there are some ideas off the top of my head:

Give the clothing a component, and that clothing would need a preset "lattice" of bones, perform calculations based on wind/movement to manipulate bones manually with script (if it's already animated by the player armature no dice here).

You could have the clothing be pieces which are jointed together. Bullet physics will hate this and it will probably not look great (think more like minecraft cape), but this is a possibility.

Animation graph (most "in house" solution, yet probably the hardest, but some pros here, or hacks to accomplish)

[ember iris]

thank you for the help i will take note of this

[south umbra]

You could also work with morphs and script that

[grand tangle]

Hey all, I think this is the right place to ask, I’m trying to make a FDC/AFATDS style mortar calculator that lets you input grid coordinates rather than it being reliant on knowing what map you are on. It’s pretty accurate as it bases the calculation off of the range tables per round/charge per mortar system. The one thing I want to add to it is wind adjustment. Having wind direction and speed be the input would be the goal but I am not sure that would be enough as it doesn’t calculate the actual ballistic trajectory, it just interpolates between the two brackets for that range table. Anyone have any tips on this?

[wheat verge]

Hi everyone, I’m currently making a static 3D object that I’d like to transfer to the Arma Workbench. I’m having a small issue... everything seems fine during the transfer and my colliders are all set up. However, when I test it (using the .et or .xob), the character collides with the object correctly, but bullet impacts don't register at all.

Even after adding a RigidBody component, nothing changes. Does anyone have an idea what might be causing this?

I’ve already set the collider layers to concrete and metal and assigned them to 'building', but it's still not working...

[wise girder]

you need a firegeo

there is a lot of colliders type

i think it's firegeo i'm not sure

[wheat verge]

Firegeo ? What’s that ? Where can I find it ?

[wise girder]

use this tool

https://discord.com/channels/105462288051380224/1472408285192650834

[wheat verge]

Okay thank you maaaan !!!!!

[wise girder]

no problem man

[ruby heron]

A while ago I saw a video in here of a guy who made a weapon charm with working physics, does anyone know who this is?

[south umbra]

BuildingFireView
(Collision, FireGeo, ViewGeo)
(Cant walk trough, cant shoot trough, cant view trough)

[wheat verge]

okay thaaaaanks !

[wicked summit]

that would be @shadow vigil

[dusk eagle]

Hi, I'm very new to Arma Reforger modding. I'm trying to create an structure using existing walls, but when I put them on my server they move around and appear jumbled.

[upper wing]

Watch this:
https://youtu.be/OV0e7yPJa4c?is=VaZ7F4rNLH3vYtV2

Also this is not the right channel for this

[wanton haven]

Hi everyone,
I was tweaking an engine when i noticed that IdleRPM on vehicles isn't sustaining when in water ?
shouldn't it stand at idle value ? am i missing something here ?

[vague turret]

HI , I try to put those tripod weapons in bunkers, but my caracter can't get "inside the vehicule" in game, with GM i can drop my caracter directly inside the weapons. Does someone know how to diseable this options, and the usage of tripod weapons inside building and low roof, --> whenever i use the tripod weapons over the floor it works, if I lift up a bit the weapons to close to the roof , no more !

thx for the help

[zinc drift]

Does anyone know of a way to increase the ragdoll time of a character prefab? I can't even find what dictates ragdoll in the first place

[untold pike]

lets no crosspost same question on multiple channels. find the most relevant one and use that #rules

[random jungle]

Anyone know why the Wheels/collider goes through the map? Im using UBX for the wheels collider and the wheel layer preset but it keeps going through the floor when dropped from higher alltitudes as well as increasing the mass of the plane

Im not sure if im using the wrong layer preset or if the colliders need to be bigger

[wicked summit]

the wheels collision is determined by the radius that can be found in the sim component

not by the collider

[ruby shadow]

In Enfusion, collision of wheels is not handled by colliders of wheels

[random jungle]

Well Ive managed to somewhat make it better but its still clipping

Sometimes When I drop it its somewhat fine other times the colliders go through the floor for a sec just to come back upp

[lyric marlin]

If suspension does not allow the "wheel" to travel high enough before another real collider stops the aircraft from hitting the ground, they will phase through the ground, the game fixes this by adding box colliders surrounding the landing gear assy to ensure that the wheel never travels high enough to surpass the suspension

you also want to right click the heli sim component in world editor and hit "compute local inertia"

which will stop that jittering. You don't want terrain colliders on wheels, only the mine trigger compex types so that the wheels run into mines

[random jungle]

Why not terrain colliders? I mean this video is a bit older but I changed the wheels UCX collider to a UBX collider instead which stopped from ever going through/clipping the ground

Should I keep it or just remove it completely?

[lyric marlin]

that's only for ground vehicles, heli sim is very unbaked and incomplete

so your wheel collider is not the same as the heli sim wheel

they don't talk to eachother

[random jungle]

Right so I should focus on the wheel sim more

[lyric marlin]

i would get rid of it, or make it MTC type, then add a small box collider above the wheels surrounding the strut

and make the suspension stronger of course, etc. it will take a lot of trial and error, but the box colliders will stop the wheel from phasing through the ground, instead it will just bottom out

[random jungle]

Its just that for a 7 wheeled plane ive been pulling my hair around the suspension. I can make the suspension stronger/bigger but it will jitter/slide like crazy

Im actually not sure if this thing should have 7 wheels or just 3 in that case

[lyric marlin]

anywhere where the wheels are right next to eachother, I'd just use one wheel there, because they have one suspension if that makes sense

but try hitting compute local inertia,

that can get rid of the jitters

then after computing, you can flatten the values but leave them in the same ratio

example if you click it and it gives you:

X: 293200.432
Y: 129023.123
Z: 230223.321

And that will obviously make the aircraft really hard to fly, do:
X: 200000
Y: 85000
Z: 150000

Keep them in the same ratio as the computation gives you

Now the only downside to vanilla wheel heli sim is that wheels are infinitely thin, so they have a radius but not a depth, so a wide set of wheels may not appear to collide correctly

[random jungle]

Ah right I havent used the local inertia stuff so Ill try that out

[random jungle]

When you say one wheel, like do you mean actually only using one wheel for the sim config?

[lyric marlin]

Like, if your wheels look like this,

make that one wheel in the sim component

[random jungle]

Ah right

Ye I mean the colliders shows 2 but It is one wheel for each 7 of them

[lyric marlin]

then the only colliders here

are things that are shot

with exception of these boxes, for the suspension/phase through terrain issue

7 wheels should be fine if you hit compute local inertia, if you do it and you still have issues there are other levels to pull

[random jungle]

Thank you though, Im gonna try and work it out and see if I can solve it. Ive been at it for 3 days straight now💀

But seriously thank you for explaing it all

[lyric marlin]

I spent weeks just to figure out it was compute local inertia

[random jungle]

Cant imagine the pain you had to go through

https://tenor.com/view/black-ops-woods-cod-gif-17392574626699745990

[minor mulch]

Do you know why my clothing isnt staying attched to my character after i import from blender? It just stays floating in the air next to my character?

[untold pike]

you maybe did not use the right import options in the workbench

#enfusion_model is the place for those questions in the future

[ember current]

Hi everyone! I'm trying to implement a wind deflection correction script/calculator for mortar shells.

Does anyone know the formula, script, or the name of the script/component that handles how wind forces act on projectile objects like artillery shells in the Enfusion engine?

Any references or insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[oblique wind]

oh i can

[random jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1285779777172668476/1385469168165453824/IMG_20220602_154816.gif

[glass cliff]

Hey guys, been stuck on this for a while now and its got me stumped,
I have made a cargo Humvee part, which works identically to how the US supply trucks are setup with their cargo attachment.
the side benches are setup to take supply, and block seats when supply is put in.

My issue is, without supply in the seats it is invisible on the car but i can still sit on the seats.
The physics don't seem to register on the vehicle, but with the seats alone i can stand on top however i can shoot both.
and when i load supply, it doesnt matter if its 1% or 100%, all the crates spawn, rather than gradually as i load more.

Any ideas?

[glass cliff]

Found it, turns out the humvee has SCR_ResourceComponent, once that was disabled, i changed the Encapsulators changeonemptybehavior to HIDE, underSCR_ResourceComponent on the bench seats.

Just in case anyone has a similar issue 👍

[wide egret]

Hello everyone.Can you tell me, please, who has encountered a strange (at least for me) anomaly?. There is a UTM with 15mm armor, even 855 or 7n10 bullets won't fit it into the SP. As soon as I launch MP, a strange thing happens on the server in some way that I have never seen before, I can pierce 15 mm of armor with these bullets in the middle of the collider.I've been freaking out about this for months.

[wide egret]

LayerPreset FG

[cedar wave]

Is this where we test if driving a tank into a small shrub launches it across the map?

[vocal lintel]

This is where you make your own tank, and are confused as to why it launches across the map 😄

[dim stag]

Dont forget, tapping another vehicle with your own, and launching yourself into low orbit

[blissful maple]

What physics?

[dull cradle]

Pfft. Screw gravity.

[pseudo spoke]

You can adjust gravity in the terrain editor

which is sick

[thorny osprey]

and hitting a person, will launch you into high orbit.

[stable tiger]

Trees are still godlike.

[ancient field]

Is PhysX still the library being used?

[copper coral]

Just imagine someone creates a Mars map and then a scenario of Elon wars is just a question of time!!! Whoooo

[azure garnet]

hit a tree irl while driving and tell me how it goes

[native phoenix]

Hope we get some kind of physics support for standing on moving vehicles... I.E. Destroyers, Air Carriers, Cargo Planes etc

Was one of the main reasons I was looking forward to moddable physics in enfusion

[vernal yoke]

Yeah but here a bush can totally stop a BTR! They are obviously going to revamp the destruction, because some entities have improved destruction compared to Arma 3 and some have none at all.

[vernal yoke]

Also lets hope you are finally able to walk on moving boats/ships etc

[native phoenix]

true, I meant walking and standing 😂

[vernal yoke]

So far we have no tank assets, no air assets and no water assets at all in the game

[native phoenix]

Wonder who will make air assets first

BI or Moddies

[vernal yoke]

Modders work faster that is for sure

[native phoenix]

We'll have to see what rate of dev Reforger will have I guess, we've never seen BI work on a non-clunky engine before

[vernal yoke]

But since moders don't have access to engine changes, then they could never do a better implementation than the dev team

[vernal yoke]

It certainly feels like they have spent most of their time on the internal workshop and game master mode implementation because compared to DayZ little seem changed in terms of features.

[native phoenix]

yeah lots of backend

[ancient field]

Id like to see more access to joints. Spherical, hinge, stuff like that would be super nice

[rain raft]

Did you check out the PhysicsJoint class? I remember doing some funky stuff with joints few years ago; for example check out the:
Physics6DOFSpringJoint Create6DOFSpring

[ancient field]

I did not yet

[ancient field]

Let me check, I didnt know it was available

So many possibilities with joints

Found them, thanks!

[rain raft]

Definitely share if you're able to get something cool going on! 😉

[ancient field]

Definitely

[dim pebble]

Did some experimenting earlier and it works great! Don’t have a video to show though as I didn’t record one. Here are the scripts for anyone interested

https://pastebin.com/N8fx6scx

Ignore the if statements and prints in SpawnCar 😞

[brisk scarab]

oh my goodness my jeep hit a literal twig sticking out from a fallen tree and stopped dead

will there be a way to make like the log stuck in the ground firm and strong but permit the twigs to break away?

[ancient field]

Thats awesome, ill give it a shot later

[remote flame]

@dim pebble How would I got about testing this script, would love to see it work

[ancient field]

Any hope of adding manual transmission support? 😄

I see we can modify alot of the automatic shifting parameters but I cant seem to find anything that would allow for a manual transmission

Nevermind I am corrected

[light carbon]

Would love to here more once you dog through it.

[ancient field]

Whats the difference/how do the geometry piece masses work with the rigidbody component mass

do they sum?

should they be equal?

https://i.imgur.com/ptG0FB2.png

https://i.imgur.com/iyfiVnY.png

[unreal phoenix]

Mass in RigidBody the one to use

[stuck matrix]

I have a question. What about clothing simulation? Can we add cloak on player or flags and have a physics for him?

[ancient field]

Does the mass in geometry have a purpose anymore?

Also is it possible to define the inertia tensor/matrix of a rigidbody manually or is that calculated from geometry?

[rain raft]

Check physics API in scripts.

[honest kernel]

Has anyone managed to put a geometry on an object?

[ancient field]

You do it in blender as a separate collection with a specific naming convention in #enfusion_model. Then add a rigidbody to your entity and check apply model geometry

[thorny osprey]

are destructable buildings possible currently in enfusion?

[ancient field]

What are the two transforms that PhysicsJoint.Create6DOF is expecting? Offsets? Does one describe the joint position and the second is a offset from that?

[ancient field]

Also im a bit confused on the transform format. The comment on GetTransform is the following:

<0.989879,-0,0.141916>,<0,1,0>,<-0.141916,0,0.989879>,<2545.08,15.6754,2867.49>```
What do each of these represent? Im pretty confident the last one is the position, are the first 3 a DCM? (direction cosine matrix?)

Its almost an identity matrix which makes me think that it is

[noble prism]

You are right, they are all components of Transformation matrix

[ancient field]

Ah okay, i've never used a single transformation matrix. always have had attitude mechanics separate. Thanks!

[noble prism]

There are many great explanatory videos on YouTube about this, I can also recommend book 3D Math Primer for Graphics and Game Development

[ancient field]

Would you happen to know an answer to the joint question? Or have access to something that explains the two input transforms a little better for that function?

I'll definitely check out that book

[noble prism]

Sorry, but I do not understand the questions 😦 What you mean by joint question? Or two input transforms?

[ancient field]

Ah sorry

PhysicsJoint.Create6DOF takes two entities, a parent and a child, and then it asks for two transforms as well.

static proto Physics6DOFJoint Create6DOF(notnull IEntity ent1, notnull IEntity ent2, vector matrix1[4], vector matrix2[4], bool block, float breakThreshold);``` This is all I have access to so I have no idea what matrix1 and matrix2 are relative to

[noble prism]

I would really recommend to study vector math first. Otherwise these topics will be really hard to understand and you will end up in trial and error type of programming which will most probably not work in such complex area like physics simulation. With 6DOF you can begin here 😉 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_freedom

[ancient field]

I've taken quite a few classes on it already in university. I dont understand what matrix1 and matrix2 are controlling because there is no comment for what they do; which leaves me with no choice but to use trial and error (which I agree is not going well)

[noble prism]

They are controlling position and rotation two entities ent1 and ent2 should maintain to each other, they define the constraint of this physical joint. I will make sure that documentation of these methods are added.

[willow tangle]

I find vehicle wheels weightless. As soon as wheel with even extreme high RPM touches the surface of any kind, it immidiately stops spinning.
The same goes for suspension. That's especially notable when driving fast over rocks. suspension instantly stretches, like there was no mass attached to it, neither depreciation.

[dim pebble]

The transforms are in local space in respect to the corresponding entity, check the example I posted earlier for vehicle towing: https://pastebin.com/N8fx6scx

[ancient field]

Yeah thats what I was thinking initially but I was getting weird behavior with offsets I didnt expect. I defined the position in local space and used CoordToWorld() to draw it in the editor but wasnt getting the positions I expected. Ill have to run through it some more when I get back to my computer

[rain raft]

@noble prism : I know that Dram had some wrapper API over the physics joints some time ago; do you think it would be salvageable? 🤔 Or do you prefer just adding the documentation eventually?

[blazing pawn]

Difference between Rigidbody Sim State: Simulation and Collision ?

[daring rapids]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I think Collision is a reduced state where EOnSimulate doesn't get called, but the collision bounding boxes are still calculated. Probably useful for objects which are meant to never move in any way but still "exist"..

[noble prism]

I am not sure about the wrapper. It is possible. 6DOFs were heavily used in Take On Mars and the API hasn't changed that much. We will add the documentation.

[blazing pawn]

Is there a way to change the tree trunk collider (pink one) to collide with terrain / Can we change which layers collide with each other?
See #enf_showroom message

[honest kernel]

You add how on rigidbody?

[ancient field]

Need to be in world editor in either a world or prefab edit mode

If in world editor just drag your model in and in the top right you have a list of component

[honest kernel]

https://gyazo.com/0656420137af1287ce2d8940ea540e1e

[ancient field]

add component rigidbody, button is at bottom of screen

[honest kernel]

Yes is good 🙂

Now I will learn how to make animations

[ancient field]

https://i.imgur.com/LoAX83h.mp4

😉

[craggy tendon]

Spin Tires: Reforger incoming

[craggy tendon]

stress testing >:]
In all fairness, despite becoming subterranean, they will eventually pop up again (5m in the air, at different places)

[ancient field]

How did they end up under the ground lol

[craggy tendon]

i rammed them... and eventually i managed to break reality ^^ its a modded vehicle though (the reinforced one? from the vehicle test scenario on the workshop). I think it might have a little bit more mass and engine power. Didnt manage the same feat using vanilla stuff (just a tiny bit of sinking into the ground from pushing)

[daring rapids]

Been stumped on this since yesterday now. I rigged up a vehicle identically to the example new vehicle mod and the suspension seems to be "backwards." has anyone run into this problem before?

Basically there are 3 things wrong - 1. The wheels are extending up from the suspension origin instead of down
2. Accelerating loads the front axle instead of the back, and braking loads the back axle
3. When turning left the car also loads to the left instead of loading to the right, and vice versa

[rotund atlas]

Sounds like your rig is completely backwards

Is your model oriented in the correct axis?

[dim pebble]

It was probably that. I just gave him like 50 (maybe 3) things to do in voice call. The issue now appears to be resolved but they were all completed at once so not 100% sure what actually resolved it

[honest kernel]

Do you have to reset the geometry each time you spawn the building?

[solid jasper]

Does anybody here know how ApplyTorque works? ApplyImpulse works as predicted, I can apply any impulse I want, but no matter how insane the vector I pass in to the ApplyTorque function nothing happens

[dim pebble]

It is a rotational force in world space. It should be working with any value. Make sure it is multiplied by the mass of the object you are trying to move

[lofty ibex]

Don't know if this is the right spot but: The CollisionTriggerComponent seems to only trigger for Rigidbody <-> RidgidBody and Rigidbody <-> Terrain collisons. Not RidgidBodies <-> Ragdolls. Is this intentional, am I missing a setting or a bug? Working on landmines and if this is intentional it would be an easy way to make the difference between AP and AT Mines XD

[ancient field]

No, you need to make a prefab. You can make a prefab by dragging the entity you want to save the configuration of into the resource browser

[lethal idol]

Is it possible to make ragdolls behave similarly to GTA 5's rage body physics when shot? Also would it be possible to enable bullet holes/wounds and for the ragdoll to remain active on bodies even after death?

[tight remnant]

check Layer PReset in RigidBody of projectile (mine in your case)

Projectile layer preset might simply not collider with ragdolls

I'm not sure if its on purpose of if its some mistake though

[candid dome]

ic someone figured this out https://vxtwitter.com/HamsterCuter/status/1527889199638233089

[ocean hedge]

not sure this is the right channel, but what's missing from the truck to keep it on top of the ground when not RigidBody->static is set? I copied the Arma Reforger truck's prefab and merely changed the Mesh model: https://youtu.be/LvAttKBMJis

[lofty ibex]

Your colliders in the model not being setup properly?

[ocean hedge]

when it's static I cannot walk through it. It's a p3d from a3 imported via Enfusion Tools and has UTM_FireGeometry, UTM_Geometry, UTM_GeometryPhysX and UTM_ViewGeometry as Colliders currently

do I need to set something like land contact points?

[topaz geode]

One thing I'm struggling with understanding is this note in the docs. If my visual geometry is identical to my collision model in Blender do I really have to duplicate it for a collision layer? Seems a bit inefficient for simple shapes.

As a secondary question to this, I know there is a naming convention for LODs in Blender. Would it be possible to just call my visual LOD "UTM_trimesh_ObjName" and use a single model for everything?

[lofty ibex]

If you can walk through it the colliders are not working. What are the layers set to?

[ocean hedge]

I cannot walk through it when set to RigidBody->static. The Geo layers are cubes and simple meshes

[lofty ibex]

Ah, in the xob properties, do your colliders register? The naming convention fo you colliders also is wrong. It should SHAPE_OBJECT not what it is.

[ocean hedge]

Only UTM_FireGeometry is registered it seems. I'll try to change that, thanks

hmm, no change when using UTM_Geometry now.

[lofty ibex]

Your collider should be named UTM_OBJECT name.
Like your lods are called OBJECT_LOD0

[ocean hedge]

thanks, I have it floating now by changing RigidBody->Center of Mass to 0,0,0

not sure how to get it back to ground now?

[ocean hedge]

This is the current setup: https://tetet.de/arma/reforger/reforger-uns_m35-geometry.png

[lofty ibex]

And in LOD0 there is?

[ocean hedge]

Object_LOD0

[lofty ibex]

then the collider should be UTM_Object

[ocean hedge]

oh, ok, will change, thanks

thanks, Colliders seem to setup correctly now, but no change. Any ideas how to determine the Center of Mass?

when I change z to negative or positive one, it either front flips or back flips now 😄

[lofty ibex]

You can set center of mass in ridgidBody or with a COM_Object memory point

[honest kernel]

Do you know how to get the movement points there?
https://gyazo.com/f5f4a3a0c4d4507f4a997ce2a103fa27

Because on my door they are here: https://gyazo.com/4952475932eeab4a6f883469c8b0e6c5

So the animation plays in the middle and not on one side

[honest kernel]

I understood that it was necessary to move the scene root but how to do?

[sharp herald]

Anyone know which layer preset you use to get things to stop falling through the world?

[lofty ibex]

Any one that has a navmesh. PropFireView and make sure your colliders are regestering porperly

[sterile tulip]

has anyone tried making a boat yet? I've messed about with making the mutt swim badly

[lofty ibex]

ex0 hinted at the BTR basicaly being a boat

[sterile tulip]

I had considered half way through messing about that the real BTR can swim and that feature might be simulated
i'll have a look tomorrow to see how that goes. Don't expect much from me, I've no idea what I'm doing :p
I can probably steal some sane values from there though

[lofty ibex]

I personally think boats with the new physics could be awsome floating basis you can walk on. But I am busy myself with landmines right now

[runic kraken]

Now someone just needs to figure out how to give boats water particles lmao cause the btr has none

[elfin compass]

Is there a reason that this mesh would not fall and float when alone, but if a BTR is nearby it does?

[runic kraken]

.

[lofty ibex]

Does nearby mean, In the world or close to it?

BTR might be Initializing code you are not?

[elfin compass]

close to it, the second clip is short but you can see the BTR sky diving in the background, to the left

[lofty ibex]

Does it still float if the btr is on the other side of the world?

[elfin compass]

It does not

[lofty ibex]

Well the BTR doesn't get loaded when its there. Geuss it has some componet or a reference to a config somewhere that you lack?

[elfin compass]

BTR is always loaded, the only difference is location

[runic kraken]

Are you inheriting from the BTR? Or new vehicle

[lofty ibex]

not true, if you are far away the objects components aren't all loaded. else the game's performance would be dogshit

[elfin compass]

Oooh, I I figured that it just being rendered meant it was the same as being close vs being far.

@runic kraken the original components were dragged from the BTR so it probably is, I'll rebuild the components anew and see what happens, given what Walthzer just said it, it makes more sense.

[runic kraken]

Yeah you should check if any of it is linked to the BTR

Its definitely linked to the BTR physics somehow

[lofty ibex]

SCR_VehicleWaterPhysicsComponent Seems to be what we want

damn ok. Geuss I know why ex0 wanted us to look at the BTR. Its all scripted? Wack

[lofty ibex]

The Water physics depend on the BTR's wheeled simulation aswell

So...Uhm, you have to add wheeled simulation to your boat in the most reduced way possible XD

[lofty ibex]

Of interest to water physics is:

-Engine
-Steering
-Gearbox

you should be able to ignore the "wheeled" part of the wheeled simulation component.

[daring rapids]

So, here's an FYI (and also open question) for anyone doing vehicles currently. I have managed to get vehicles I'm working on into a messed up, "floaty" state where the forces aren't balanced and there's no weight on some of the wheels, but it only seems to happen to me on the MP Test terrain. It may have to do with the material the terrain is assigned. Has anyone else encountered this?

[elfin compass]

Thank you, this is going to take a while to wrap my head around

[lofty ibex]

If you need an help feel free to DM. Its a nice boat!

[tepid heron]

I'd like to know if there is any inquiry into the ability to edit the actual ragdolls within Reforger; specifically human ragdoll interaction and collision/bend weights. At the moment I love Reforger but those ragdolls/death anims could be improved

[craggy moat]

I haven't been corrected thus far, but any question of "can" regarding the SDK is "Yes"

[topaz geode]

I'm wondering guys if it's possible to use a single LOD for visuals, physics etc by simply signing it in blender or is the minimum requirement two?

[ocean hedge]

I wonder what I missed - the prefab for the Unsung M35 is a straight copy of the Reforger M923A1. I changed the mass to 20200 kg and now it stopped levitating and sits on the ground. But when I enter as driver and start the engine it falls through the ground and enters the water below. The Colliders work in that I can stand and run against the truck.

[sterile brook]

Everytime I read the channel name, this pops into my mind:

https://tenor.com/view/crazy-talking-invetigating-mad-explain-gif-16881825

[daring rapids]

You have UTM colliders on each wheel right? Also, if you turn on the debug visuals, do you see the wheel raycast in the correct place before you fall through the ground?

[sterile tulip]

The mutt and uaz have different types of suspension, the mutt has independent while uaz has beam/live axle
Is the difference actually simulated (from bones/anims??? Idk anything about this stuff) or is the game actually simulating independent for each wheel with the visual animation being just visual?

[daring rapids]

I'm pretty sure simulation happens independent of the bones and anims, then the position and rotation values from the simulation are applied applied to the anim graph and bones instead of the other way around.

[ocean hedge]

Thanks Ralian, the wheels were not setup correctly. I used offsets now to approximate them. The wheels don't turn when driving now graphically, so I guess more work is needed for this

[daring rapids]

If you want to show me how your CarProcAnimComponent and bones are set up I might be able to help.

This is how the current (mostly correct) one I'm working on looks

[ocean hedge]

I have no bones defined it seems:

it's a plain converted a3 model, so I guess I need to do some blender foo on it?

[daring rapids]

Ah yes, you do need to add bones to it. I can answer questions about that if you want but the best way to learn is to look at the sample mod's new car. Feel free to DM me (or ask in the modeling channel) if you get stuck.

It's this sample https://github.com/BohemiaInteractive/Arma-Reforger-Samples/tree/main/SampleMod_NewCar

[ocean hedge]

thanks. I've the samples d/l. Looking now

[daring rapids]

Once you add all the necessary bones you just fill out the parameters in that module to tell the anim graph what bones it is manipulating when the wheels turn & suspension moves. It might be tricky the first time but you'll get it. Good luck!

[ocean hedge]

a related question: When I exit the truck I fall through the ground. Is there some offset/Pivot ID I need to define as well?

[daring rapids]

Yes and no. You can actually define it with a pivot (defaults to scene_root I believe) and an offset, so while it's recommended to create an empty in the blender model where you want the exit point to be, you can just manually set it for prototyping.

You can ignore the pivot point option (where I put the X) and just set the x y z manually. Eventually once you get the correct position you might want to go back and add it to the model

Same for the Passenger Position Info which you have to do for each seat

[tight remnant]

most likely you need to adjust get in/out points in doors (part of compartments component)

[ocean hedge]

Thanks, that worked 🙂

[daring rapids]

Are there any plans in the future to use collision for contact patch detection instead of just a raycast straight down in model space? My vehicle has a lot of trouble getting over curbs that it probably would be able to in reality.

(of course, if anyone knows any tricks to mitigate this in a different way, I'm all ears. Maybe I need to play with the suspension more.)

[light carbon]

Does the engine not use a collision cdt?

[daring rapids]

I didn't think it uses that to determine where the wheels are contacting and applying torque, but I would love to be wrong about that

[austere abyss]

the wheel objects I don't think are a big driver

[light carbon]

The wheels will have they're own cdt, but if your cars collision box is too large you could easily expect what your photo shows happening. It may not so much be the tires torque but the game thinking the cars body is touching it.

[austere abyss]

look at the wheel and tire settings under the wheeledvehicalsimulation config

yeah that too it may be getting hung up on the body

[daring rapids]

In the case of the photo above, the car's collider is already over the curb without touching it.

[austere abyss]

try making the simulation wheels bigger

[daring rapids]

I can give that a shot, but I do want it to match the actual size for realistic driving behavior

[light carbon]

That's said, I was pretty disappointed with how the mutt reacted to me trying to drive over rocks, seemed to get stuck/hung up on nothing way too easily.

Yeah I'm not sure then in that case

[austere abyss]

might just be a lateral traction/torque thing

I made a long travel mutt that had a ton more clearance and much softer suspension an it helped alot, but I think a lot of the default tire values have not really be tweeked for really accurate simulation yet

[light carbon]

I'd assume then there's no debug visualisation of the simulation wheels

[daring rapids]

Doubling the size of the wheel as a test did help. But I think that just shows that it was an issue of the wheel in the first place.

[austere abyss]

yeah IDK that's a big curb

[light carbon]

Oh there is some sort of visualisation, nice

[daring rapids]

You can render them in the vehicle debug menu

Do Ctrl-Win-Alt and go through the menu like this

[austere abyss]

I'd really like to see wheels and tires setup as slot components so stuff like flat tires and wheel swaping/ removing can be better

[daring rapids]

I don't think there is anything stopping us from doing that with a modded vehicle. Need to make custom animations for it first though.

[tired flax]

I'm honestly confused at how strange they configured the default .ragdoll

but I kinda love it

[past belfry]

@elfin compass is that sailboat walkable and collision-able? I would like to tackle a DDH model I have been developing for the last year...

[thorny osprey]

Cant wait to see your guys creations here, hope that we can benefit the game

[solid vector]

Hmm if I understand right you can set lat/lon frictions, roughness and drag based on what material you're on it seems if you do some scripts. Likely can even make wet surface (or weather) affect those also🤔

[topaz geode]

I think modding will be the game, and modders will be the reason communities get built

Very excited

[runic kraken]

Pretty much always has been and luckily with the support modders are getting always will be

[ancient field]

Getting weird behavior when I have two vehicles on top of each other. I have a trailer setup as a vehiclewheeledsimulation and then I drop a humvee on top, the humvee will then slowly slide off of the trailer. Ive tried setting a physics material with 100% friction and drag but no luck

[daring rapids]

I wouldn't recommend making the trailer so that the bounding boxes touch - I would use a 6DOF like what jacob mango did for towing. Couldn't tell you what's actually happening in your case.

[ancient field]

Yeah ill take a video when I get the chance, the issue will be more clear

[swift violet]

Strange question but can models in Enfusion be walked on while it moves?

[daring rapids]

I think there might be a hacky way to do it via script but I have not been able to get that working myself. I don't know of any engine feature to enable relative movement on physics objects though.

[swift violet]

Really? Not even UR4? pretty sure.. I mean it can be quite buggy when your lagging.. but don't they have that type of cling on physics.. I'm sure it has a technical name.. cling physics I'll call it.

[daring rapids]

I've only tested it with static AI that I told to stand on a vehicle though. I don't know if it's any different in multiplayer where the person on the vehicle is under player control

[sterile tulip]

Can anyone show me how to get this visualisation? The tutorial tells you that you can but I haven't been able to find the button

""Below you can see in action transform gizmos (activated via Toggle context(s) transform gizmo visualization ) and radius visualization (activated via Toggle context(s) radius visualization option).""

[tight remnant]

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Vehicle_Creation#Debugging

ahh, sorry

[sterile tulip]

That's what I've quoted above lol

[tight remnant]

not that chapter though

in any case, this debug is part of this context menu https://community.bistudio.com/wikidata/images/e/ea/armareforger-new-car-action-context.gif

[sterile tulip]

Cheers
Am I right in thinking that it isn't possible to add an action context without already adding bones in the fbx?
I'm an absolute beginner in blender, I've got a lot of experience in CAD software for production but it's a whole different kettle of fish.

[tight remnant]

it is possible, you will just have to position it manually

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Action_Context_Setup here is separate page describing more general use

[daring rapids]

Oh wow, you added a lot to that page. Thanks reyhard. By the way, do you have any thoughts on making vehicles 'get over' things like curbs more easily, like the issue I was having here? #enfusion_physics message

[sterile tulip]

That shouldn't matter for met yet, keeping it very simple atm
Thanks for links!

[elfin compass]

from what tests I've done ingame yes I was able to walk on it and collide with it

[elfin compass]

big thanks to @lofty ibex for resolving my ships floating issue, I was imagining the ship needing to have a rope tied around a btr and dragging it behind in order to work.

[last snow]

physic and geo from sample

i just change body lod and wheel lod and interior lod

have any idea ?

[daring rapids]

impossible to tell from that screenshot. mess around with the vehicle debugger and get some data

[winter burrow]

Has anyone managed to get the TestDragUserAction to work on an object/prefab? I can get the TestPushUserAction, TestParticleAction, TestCampfireAction scripts to work, but not the Push. I have played around with the RigidBody parameters and the action changes for Drag to Let go but the entity does not move.

[daring rapids]

what is your response index set to in rigidbody?

[winter burrow]

@daring rapids smallMomentum

[daring rapids]

Hmm... that should be right, but did you also try smallDestructible to see what happens?

[last snow]

how

increase max speed

because my car go to 20km/h max

[rain raft]

I added that thing long time ago for testing and it was never used in production (duh, hence the name) - there might be a component required or something, but writing it yourself would be easier imo 😋

[winter burrow]

@tough minnow I presumed it was a test but though it may have worked, thx for the answer.

[winter burrow]

Managed to make it work, changed it to RigidBody->AlwaysActive.

[rain raft]

Awake your rigidbody yourself and then let it sleep when you're done with the action for better performance

[worthy jacinth]

I'm having issues setting up wheels for my vehicle. I've followed the "NewVehicle" sample tutorial, and (to my knowledge) done everything as it tells. Everything else seems to work, except for the axles / wheels for the vehicle. When I add it, it just drops onto its base collider, and the wheels don't seem to exist.

I've tried comparing my setup to what's done in the sample mod, and the only difference I've found is the "tyre" class. When I try to add one myself, enfusion always crashes

[whole pulsar]

Hi all, I have a question about ragdoll. I'd like to include a better ragdoll in my mod "Effect" on workshop. Do you have an idea where I can find the file in Enfusion? I found one but not sure if good or not.

[next canopy]

there is a person in the showroom that has been developing better ragdolls

[whole pulsar]

Nice. I'd like to try it also. The mod I found on workshop is just no gravitish after bullet hit.

[past belfry]

One question...

Does the 70 m long limit in the GEO/Road LOD still applies in Reforger???

Your ship certainly looks bigger than 60 meters...

Just out of curiosity

[elfin compass]

That ship is just shy of 50 meters. I scoured my hard drive for something I could use to test your question, and keep in mind it was a very rough, quick slap together without much planning approach.

This ship measures around 423 meters long and was imported as a single mesh.

Character standing still was a bit jittery but in moving seemed fine, and I was able to walk from end to end however placing a vehicle did cause the suspension to fall through the deck... this may however be the collider having the wrong setting.

[past belfry]

OMFG

I'm refining a 235 m DDH I have been developing in Object editor but I still haven't ported it to blender...

Looks very good!!!

EDIT: I suppose that the pink thinguie is the collider. Is it composed of primitives or a convex trimesh. I have heard it may be not convex in Reforger.
I will take a look at blender tomorrow

[radiant dove]

Damn, Now I got massive itch for having battleship new jersey ingame.
😅

[radiant dove]

Have you tried different physics materials on the deck? Something extra sticky. That could help.
Or you can create custom script that parents player as a child of the ship to prevent jittery.

[languid stream]

Does Enfusion support player movement on moving objects? I.E walking around on the deck of a moving ship?

[jade ice]

How do i adjust the steering ratio / speed at which the vehicle steers?

not the max angle of the steering

but the speed of it

[loud sonnet]

I hope it does

[dim pebble]

I will test tomorrow or the day after to see if it can be modded in through AddChild or if we need LinkToLocalSpaceOf/UnlinkFromLocalSpace exposed again.

There's some functions that were exposed later in DayZ's lifetime that aren't exposed in Reforger that allowed this to be possible there

[tight remnant]

steering curves are defined in SCR_CarControllerComponent

[languid stream]

Rog. Let me know how that testing goes. If it cant be done, it cant be done.

[dim pebble]

As expected AddChild unfortunately doesn't work. We will just have to wait for a function similar to LinkToLocalSpaceOf to make its way back if it exists

Edit: Made a feedback tracker ticket https://feedback.bistudio.com/T165518

[languid stream]

Thanks for checking! I hope it becomes a thing for ARMA 4

[daring rapids]

Is there any in engine way to adjust this for controller? I've noticed that driving with controller does not respect these curves, and it can lead to some funny driving behavior.

I thought about reporting it to the tracker but also realized it's kind of intended behavior... it would just be nice if we had curves and filtering we could adjust

[near needle]

Sprinters

[sterile tulip]

I've done something funky at some point and this thing refuses to turn (it used to at some point), it also appears that the unload/no contact wheel is casting upwards?
Anyone know what I could've done, I've found putting certain values in places does seem to break wheel simulation in places.
I might end up scrapping this at this point, I'm slowly learning as I go and it probably wouldn't be too much work to remake it working...

[daring rapids]

Can you show the colliders and force diagram on this as well?

I fixed something similar with mine and I can probably help you later today. I'm in US so off work for the day.

[whole apex]

Hello I am looking for a tutorial how to create a physic as well as how to operate my car get into it etc.
#enfusion_gui message

[daring rapids]

Most of the basics are here https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Vehicle_Creation

[whole apex]

thanks

[sterile tulip]

I did something and broke it even further 😎
No longer getting the prompt to enter 😅

I'm very much feeling my way around blender, so I'm probably missing some vital steps there
Thanks for the offer, but I should probably get more used to working in blender

[daring rapids]

That could also be that you messed up your materials. Does your kart have fire geometry, and is it set to firegeo?

It's actually probably a configuration problem if won't turn. Do the tires rotate?

*wheels, as in when you turn the steering wheel

[sterile tulip]

Nah, nothing is properly rigged lol
I was expecting to be busy today, but have some time so I'll probably spend some time in blender and actually learn about vertex groups and bones and stuff

[ocean hedge]

did the debugging change? I used to see a blue circle where the wheels are supposed to be with the debug option wheels and so forth on, but now after a week long break I get no info

[ocean hedge]

self answer: unset player vehicle, needs to be false to see debug output for vehicles you're not in

[sterile tulip]

I've got a weird thing where the vehicle I'm working on is very sluggish going forward, but seems to have limitless power when going backwards
I can even put reverse gear ratio at 1 and it will go
I've probably done something weird in the config, and I concede that this is a vehicle on the fringes of what reforger was made for 😅

https://youtu.be/hdzKSXWsekE

[whole dock]

Probably you did something wrong when making the kart

[winged wolf]

Gear ratios. Looking at your forward acceleraion you have very long gears.
@thick parcel

[sterile tulip]

the opposite, in this example I've put reverse at 1
Forward gear tops out at say 120 kmh. If I have the gears matching they both top out at the same but reverse gets there very quickly

[thick parcel]

I think you got it backwards. Ratio divides the RPM. High gears have lower ratios in general. Also I think engine RPM is currently clamped at idle RPM, so you are probably getting the instant acceleration effect this way.

[sterile tulip]

Yeah so ratio of 1 means the drivetrain is moving at the same speed as the engine (before diff reduction)
Higher ratio number at the gearbox gives a lower speed but faster acceleration

The vehicle hits 120 at the redline in first, but hits 320+ in reverse and does it in a fraction of the time. It moves like an electric car lol

It doesn't feel like intended behaviour

the debug screen says the wheels in reverse at peaking > -2000 torque, while they only peak at 600 for forward, same ratios

[sterile tulip]

Setting the friction to a very low value gives forward speed a similar result, maybe reverse is ignoring the friction value?

Either way my very sluggish forward performance is fixed, warp speed reverse can just be a bonus

[thick parcel]

This is very interesting, I'll check if that could be the case. Thank you!

[sterile tulip]

Easily observed if you put put the friction to say 2-4x max engine torque
If you put negative values in the gears (both forward and reverse, it works!) you get about the same result but with reverse controls

[knotty moss]

https://tenor.com/view/back-up-terry-put-it-in-reverse-terry-gif-12085130

[heady atlas]

Hi, idk if its the good channel for this but i have a problem

Can you help me very quick to fix it please?

[sterile tulip]

Possibly...
Guessing blender? Have you got the correct bones/hierarchy?

[heady atlas]

Yep

I took the sample of the basic car and adapted it correctly

In the game, the wheels move and turn well, it's just their positions that are not good

[sterile tulip]

I think you can use the anim graphs for the uaz and wheels mostly behave correctly, but the character anim was messed up for me
I made a quick animation for the steering wheel, exported it as TXA, and replaced a couple of anims in the ASI

[heady atlas]

Oof

I'm a beginner i don't understand everything 🥲

[sterile tulip]

I only started this stuff a week or so ago

[heady atlas]

its this?

@sterile tulip

[sterile tulip]

yeah I replaced one of those ones

[heady atlas]

okay i will try

[sterile tulip]

I exported TXA with the enfusion blender tools

[heady atlas]

Thanks for your help

[remote flame]

I have come across a strange problem. My Driver in my modded car slow drifts out of position. Even when the car is idol. I tested using the UAZ animations but that did not fix it. I have downloaded other modded cars and they are also doing it apart from the Evo. My drive idle is parented to my body bone which is leaving me out of idea's to what is causing it

[sterile tulip]

Mine does this too, seems to happen if you get in the car and do nothing for a moment or two
Don't seem to drift while driving

[daring rapids]

Make sure you parent the compartment to the body bone of your vehicle... at least I think that's what I did

If you do it without a parent it gets screwy after a lot of collisions, even if it looks right initially

[remote flame]

My driver idle position is parented to the body of the vehicle although after 5 hours of testing I think I found the issue or bug. I altered the driver idle position in the prefab to align up properly. I just removed that as a last resort and seems like thats fixed it

Yeah I just crashed a bunch that that was the reason

[daring rapids]

here's how I have mine parented in blender

v_root is the name of my armature, not of a bone

I think I was misspeaking last night because I didn't remember exactly what I did

[spring quarry]

hello I have just finished my vehicle but when I start there is indeed the action to start but after nothing happens the vehicle does not start and does not move forward would you have any idea where it could come from please?

[ocean hedge]

do you have animation graph defined for starting the vehicle? When I removed the animation graph from the Unsung M35 it would not start either

[ancient field]

Is it possible to get the current solar flux at a position on the map? How much power is being radiated at a point. (Is that even modeled?)

Mainly want to account for clouds and time of day

[round sandal]

Hey Guys, does anyone know how can i enable collision and firegeo of items my character is wearing? i want to remake my armor system with physical armor from Arma 3

[daring rapids]

a lot of the existing vests and stuff have collision. You could just modify the type of the colliders to firegeo or similar I bet. Stuff like this ALICE kit

should be able to hack something together with the layers preset in rigid body

but you'll want to make a new model with hand made colliders I bet.

[round sandal]

@daring rapids can you help me with basic setup? i cannot get it to work

[daring rapids]

What have you tried? Have you changed the collider type and it's still not absorbing rounds?

[round sandal]

If i set it to active object it dissapears

[daring rapids]

Leave it as inactive, I never said to touch that. But were you able to try ballistics with that set to firegeo?

If you don't know how to turn on the ballistics rendering btw, it should be the first entry in the ctrl-win-alt menu

[round sandal]

if you could point where is balistic rendering inside this menu @daring rapids

[daring rapids]

@round sandal You'll also want to change rendering mode to see colliders, so hit Alt+Num6 several times until you see them in transparent mode

[round sandal]

Cool! Great hanks Ralian, but i did an opsie by mistake, is there reset button for like all the setting?

[daring rapids]

Settings in the debug menu? Just relaunch workbench I think

or if you're talking about settings in the prefab you can hit the back arrow if it's not saved

gonna have to be more specific

[wraith fox]

Do you know how to add collisions to objects imported from blender? i already tried adding a rigid body to them but it wont work

[daring rapids]

read this https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:FBX_Import

[wraith fox]

love you no homo

[austere spoke]

anyone know how to get a simple bounding box of a MeshObject/RigidBody

[lavish lion]

Physics::GetGeomWorldBounds or IEntity::GetWorldBounds depends on your need

[restive shore]

How do I apply force to a RigidBody that is a child of another RigidBody? I have a scripted weapon attached to a truck and I want to apply "recoil" from script when firing. Tried something like GetParent().GetPhysics().ApplyForceAt(..., ...) but that didn't seem to have any effect

[astral basin]

anybody in here know how advanced the driving/traction system is/can be? i was thinking about putting an "off road park" in my map and wonder if things like off road driving/rock crawling will be possible with mods in the future , or if it will require new materials ect on the map itself.

[daring rapids]

It seems pretty advanced out of the box. Per wheel traction, forces, pacejka forces, different types of differentials, etc.

[astral basin]

so you think rock crawling type stuff could work?

[daring rapids]

So yeah I would absolutely love to see a cool vehicle trail on your map!!!

Uh, typically rock crawling just works with a really high gear ratio and a 4wd differential that completely locks

which we have the power to do

So yeah. Although I will say that I don't think the simulation handles getting over rocks completely correctly... It only cares about the contact patch between the tire and what is directly below it determined by a raycast

[daring rapids]

You're almost correct but I think you have to use ApplyImpulse instead of ApplyForceAt... that could be unimplemented at the moment

[dim pebble]

No it should be implemented.

The child may not be a dynamic body or simulation is disabled on children

[restive shore]

ApplyImpulseAt doesn't seem to do what I want to - when applied to the top of the vehicle (where the turret is placed) it just pushes the whole vehicle (as if it was applied to its center of mass) and does not try to "flip" it

It also seems to work fine when I apply the impulse to the turret prefab itself, but not when it's attached to Ural-4320 via SlotManager

I thought the problem might be related to missing Hierarchy component on my turret prefab, but that doesn't seem the case

[dim pebble]

If you're wanting to flip the vehicle then move the position to the opposite side you want the vehicle to flip. Set the force direction to push upwards

[restive shore]

Well, by "flip" I meant the vehicle slightly tipping over on some side due to recoil (think of some tank firing with it turret sidewards). So I'm trying to apply impulse that's exactly on the barrel of the turret and the vector's impulse directed the opposite side of the barrel

Here's some test code that kinda does the job, but doesn't seem to be applied to the point I want it to
pOwnerEntity.GetParent().GetPhysics().ApplyImpulseAt("0 2 0", "-10000 0 0");

(I'm using -X axis as the vehicle is ideally aligned with axes for testing)

[dim pebble]

IIRC the position is in world coordinates

[restive shore]

Yeah, that was exactly the case

Thanks for suggesting that

[dim pebble]

Also, try using ApplyForceAt instead

[restive shore]

ApplyForceAt still doesn't work no matter how big the value I pick. So I guess I'll have to stick with ApplyImpulseAt for the time being as it does the job fine

It may be because the Ural-4320's RigidBody is set to Inactive

[dim pebble]

Do you get an output in the console mentioning something like "Function is unlinked"

[restive shore]

No, I get no output

[dim pebble]

And yeah only use these functions on the actual vehicles, not on their attachments

[daring rapids]

Ah I was mixing up ApplyForceAt and ApplyImpulse at... I had tried the former as well and that doesn't really work.

[daring rapids]

Have you verified this by watching the force vectors by using the debug menu?

[restive shore]

Not sure, will try that

[ancient field]

What is the difference between applying a force and an impulse? Would an impulse instantaneously change the velocity of a rigidbody; and the force causes an instantaneous change in acceleration of the body, acting only for a single frame?

[daring rapids]

Impulse instantly changes the body's momentum by the amount you provide (in newton seconds). ApplyForce (in newtons) creates a force which acts continuously on an object, changing its momentum over time. Once you add a force with ApplyForce, I believe it persists forever until Physics::ClearForces is called. However, I'm not sure if those parts of the physics api are finished. I know applytorque and some others don't do anything currently.

But calling something like physics.ApplyForce(forceVector) once will usually give you the same result as doing physics.ApplyForce(forceVector * timeSlice) in your EOnSimulate loop

[ancient field]

Interesting, good to know

[daring rapids]

Yup. Let us know if you play around with applyforce and it works, I honestly can't remember

[ancient field]

Does ClearForces need to be called manually?

Does the engine ever call it?

[dim pebble]

Look at the bullet api for reference

Enfusion uses a modified version of Bullet 2

[daring rapids]

Jacob pointed out to me that depending on how bullet is implemented here forces might actually get cleared post-frame - however, I tested with ApplyForce, and I couldn't get it to work at all in place of ApplyImpulse. So I would stick with the latter

Oh and that second one should be physics.ApplyImpulse(forceVector * timeSlice) lmao

[dim pebble]

Oh if that is the case then yeah what you are saying is correct

ApplyForce updates the velocity in each substep, multiplying the time by a factor of timeSlice you recieved in the EOnSimulate method.

ApplyImpulse is similiar to velocity += impulse, so you need to scale the impulse to the time yourself by multipyling by timeSlice

I'll write a better example in an hour. Busy right now.

(edited the above message)

[daring rapids]

Except if this is right (the part about clearing) then what I was saying wasn't correct

Because I was saying that running ApplyForce once is equivalent to doing ApplyImpulse each frame (~60 times a second) effectively with a 1/60 normalization in the parameters

But yes even though they effectively doing the same thing it's not the exact same, for the velocity += impulse reason you say

Doing ApplyImpulse will probably ignore static friction on a stationary object unlike ApplyForce

[sonic shoal]

can anyone help me with writing a script for shrapnel? I want to make a semblance of what was in ACE mod for Arma 3

[timber flame]

Did anyone successfully turn on destruction? One of the first things you notice with this game is that almost every building is destructible, just the feature is turned off.

[restive shore]

How do I make my missile align properly with its prograde trajectory? I'm using MissileMoveComponent and trying to experiment with various options, but the missile still seems to fly without any rotation

[restive shore]

I would also like some info on MissileMoveComponent parameters as well. I've built a ballistic simulation that approximately matches the thing I'm modelling, now I am trying to take the values I got to Enfusion and can't really tell the meaning of "Forward Air Friction" value, how may it be related to values of air density/drag coefficient/missile velocity

[tight remnant]

by the rotation do you mean ballistic drop?

[restive shore]

Yeah, like the nose of the missile trying to align with its flight trajectory

[ruby shadow]

which checkbox do I click to have an object affected by gravity when it spawns?

I feel like the sleeping thresholds are freezing it, but I would like a gentle fall

or maybe I'm better off using a movement component for this

[restive shore]

I think you only need to make a collider for it and make the RigidBody active

[ruby shadow]

I'll try that, thanks

[ancient field]

You could use the normalized velocity vector as the longitudinal axis of the missile

[restive shore]

I'm using MissileMoveComponent for all the handling and I think it's all engine-implemented, so I guess I'll have to write my own missile flight script for that

[restive shore]

Also I wanted to know if anyone tried using CollisionTriggerComponent, I'm still having issues with my projectile not getting triggered when colliding with terrain. I tried switching to ProximityTriggerComponent, it seems to work fine only when some vehicle or character is nearby

The projectile just collides with terrain, and bounces until its nose is pointing at the ground, only exploding after 10-20 seconds

[rustic harbor]

@restive shore what does it inherit from?

[restive shore]

GenericEntity

I just used the same component set that's present in the PG-7VM prefab

[restive shore]

Can this problem be caused by the missile prefab being based on GenericEntity and not Projectile class? Can I somehow change a class on an already existing prefab then or should I just redo the prefab by duplicating some other prefab of that class?

Tried replacing my prefab by inheriting Projectile, the problem still seems to persist, but to a much lower degree. Projectiles now explode almost consistently, but sometimes take half a second to trigger when hitting the ground

[rustic harbor]

@restive shore what triggers explosion?

On contact, on touch ?

[restive shore]

I use MissileMoveComponent + CollisionTriggerComponent (as inherited from PG-7VM)

[daring rapids]

I did some messing around with that component to try and help you, but I couldn't do anything conclusive. I wish you could set what collision layers ProximityTriggerComponent interacted with.

[winged wolf]

Collision trigger hooks up on missile move component. In case speed is too high and physics oncontact wouldn't work, it's supposed to react to raycast done in move component.
This raycast layer needs to be Projectile afaik.

[restive shore]

I also tried ProximityTriggerComponent, but it seems to trigger on its own no matter what "DISTANCE" parameter value I set, has anyone tried using it yet?

Set "Arming time" to 1s but it seems to just detonate after that arming delay elapses

[ruby shadow]

Maybe it triggers on itself or something

Collision trigger should work, just like the one on the missile

You sure your colliders are all setup correctly?

[restive shore]

Yeah, I tested that with CollisionTriggerComponent and that seems to work fine now. After trying CollisionTriggerComponent I wanted to also try making a cluster munition by using ProximityTriggerComponent to detonate it N meters above the ground, but I'm not sure if it's supposed to be used like that

I may need to write my own trigger script instead, which will use altitude at sea level (if that's a thing in Reforger, I'm thinking Arma 3 stuff) to set off

[terse portal]

Is there a way to put one entity in another entity's intertial frame of reference? I have a ship, I want characters to walk around on the deck, but they just fall over when the ship moves.

[rustic harbor]

@terse portal That's called linking and it's currently broken right now.

You use AddChild to do it.

But it isn't worth messing with until it's fixed.

Currently the further the parent is away from world (0,0,0) the bigger the offset the child is set to in it's local space.

Also if the player is moving while they link then they'll keep the current movement animation regardless of input.

I.E. if you're running and link then you'll keep the running animation even when your idle.

Players also lose collision.

At least for vehicles.

And when you die instead of a ragdoll you get balled into a potato.

[past belfry]

I'm also modelling a big carrier type ship and I would like to know how to set her...

I'm still at the modelling phase

Could anyone give some advice or prepare a tutorial about this???

[terse portal]

You should follow advice on wiki about colliders for vehicles & dynamic objects. I use the Vector tool to draw splines and then interpolate the ship along, but I saw also there is a class for AI to follow splines, so an AI captain might work too.

[rustic harbor]

I literally just gave the best advice about it.

It's not viable at the moment.

Linking needs to be fixed by B.I. first.

[daring rapids]

Does anyone know how to get rid of this inconsequential error message from the particle emitter on vehicles that fly? It doesn't happen with any other component, and it spams the logs seemingly at random which is really not ideal.

[daring rapids]

There's also this issue, which seems to happen when the camera is in certain states while flying? Has anyone else encountered this?

Neither of these directly cause any issues, but it's massive logspam

[stray flint]

for me it looks like LOD used for detection of collisions is too complex (collider) but idk, just guessing

[daring rapids]

That could possibly be the second issue. But that won't fix the first issue.... I think that's engine side and there's not much I can do about it

[daring rapids]

Also, has anyone been able to get the rotationmakes to update colliders attached to the bones being rotated? I checked this option but it doesn't seem to do anything.

[ocean hedge]

I've did some tests with SetOrigin/GetOrigin of a cube platform and a vehicle (UAZ). It's quite a hackish way and doesn't really work and is certainly no physics using. However, the UAZ could move on the cube platform. But it's too brittle to be published right now, sorry

elevators moving vertically seem to be working though

[terse portal]

Anyone have luck with BallSocket or 6DOF joints to tow vehicles? The lead vehicle moves for me but the child vehicle doesn't. The wheels spin and turn, debug shows it should be moving on the physics vectors, but something is freezing it in place.

[past belfry]

Do you plan to move the Nimitz to Reforger???
😍 😍 😉

[ocean hedge]

Depends if the textures and model get a much needed update

so far I'm testing stuff like catapults, elevator, moving in general

[past belfry]

Theoretically Reforger colliders allow bigger than 60 meters entities... don't they?

[ocean hedge]

yes, collider is not the problem

so a static big carrier is perfectly doable. But one that moves and everything aboard moves with it, that's a bit problematic. Especially if the aboard assets want to move on their own as well

[daring rapids]

Yeah once linking gets fixed / documented we'll be golden

[ancient field]

Disable handbrake on child vehicle

[white atlas]

Is anyone planning on making trailers for trucks possible

For cool logistics or something

[ancient field]

Still working on it but here is my WIP : https://i.imgur.com/LoAX83h.mp4

[white atlas]

Nice man

[thorny osprey]

incredible plato, you do released you released pandora's box right? do you have any idea how many tanks, trailers and trucks will be sleeping on the side of the road?

[autumn void]

I shared your creation on the Everon Life discord, I think your system should really interest them ! Good job 👏

[ancient field]

I've got the same issue. Did you find a solution?

[daring rapids]

No but I found a workaround that works for my case. What exactly are you trying to do?

I do think it's more of an issue of how I was parenting the colliders, because it seems the colliders weren't parented to the bone properly, whereas the vanilla XOBs you can move the colliders with the bones

I've done everything I know how to (it's parented correctly in Blender) so I think there might be a bug with blender export since most of the devs don't use blender from my understanding

[ancient field]

I've got the jackstands/dolly on a trailer I need to translate the geometry of to lower the trailer onto a fifth wheel.

I weight painted the geometry box to the bone 100% and did an armature modifier, not sure if that was necessary

Works for the mesh but not the collider

[daring rapids]

Yeah, I think that's an issue with both of us not knowing how to parent the collider correctly

I could show you how to make it an EntitySlot so that the colliders move with it, but then it won't offer any collision

only the ability to check if a collision happened via script

Don't think that works for your use case

[ancient field]

Nah that wouldn't work for my case sadly 😦

[gentle island]

hey there, does anyone here know sth about recoil settings?

[ruby shadow]

no but maybe I can find out

what do u need

[gentle island]

thanks man. i was trying to play around with the recoil settings in workbench but no matter what i change i still got offset spraying in ADS when shooting. if i disable the whole recoil option i got not a single shake shile in ADS

[ruby shadow]

all the curves are in there in the aim modifier

[gentle island]

yes i already tried around with all those kurves but nth changed

which curves do influence the offset of the sight when shooting? my sight for example is constantly dragged to the right when shooting

[ruby shadow]

mine seems to go up and a tiny tiny bit to the right, but it might depend on weapon

which gun is it?

maybe turn offset data is what you want to modify?

you can test them each out by setting their individual base recoil scale to something like 0.01

then u can see what each of the three(?) recoil params does

[gentle island]

Hey there thanks for the suggestions, will try this again today. I got the basic parameters of the M60 with a hihger firerate. problem til now is no matter which curve i flatten or which parameter i change till it should do nothing, nothing changes on behaviour

[ruby shadow]

I tried these settings out they seemed to work

[gentle island]

what exactly did you do?

did you change the curves or did you change the coordinates (magnitues, mins, maxs)

[ruby shadow]

all params basically

[gentle island]

which axis is which? is x the horizontal and + is right while - is left?

so basically i set x and y curves now to a straight zeroline and all coordinates to zero, still the sight is shaking constantly to the right

[ruby shadow]

I thought they were like with the move tool

just set base scale to 0.001

or something

just to test

if you are editing the right parameter

theres 3

[gentle island]

so you mean the Turn Offset Data?

that is the only group i am editing right now

i just wanna set the recoil lower and change its direction from right to ground

[ruby shadow]

there are x y z vectors there

that should define some maxes

[gentle island]

within turn offset data i set them all to zero, the x and y curves have a straight zero line now, base recoil and move recoil are on zero and still it shakes to the right

[ruby shadow]

hmm lemme see

1 sec

its the m60?

[gentle island]

the problem is that i thought about wether i am changing bulletdrop and not the sight shaking itself

yes i use the M60

i set the M60 firerate quiet high cause i made an MG42

with that high firerate it shakes to the right like hell, so the rearsight does basically

[ruby shadow]

I picked up the M60 and it does not go to the right for me at all so I am not sure how to reproduce

[gentle island]

if i uncheck enable for all aim modifier groups it has zero shake so it is not a kind of sway problem i think

[ruby shadow]

what RPM should I set it to?

[gentle island]

1200

[ruby shadow]

still only goes up when firing

can you record a video?

[gentle island]

do i need a tool for recording? long time ago i recorded sth 😄

[ruby shadow]

heres how it looks for me

[thorny osprey]

just live stream

for recording I would just use OBS

[gentle island]

ill live stream for a sec

which channel should we use?

[ruby shadow]

creativity maybe idk, whatever

[sonic shoal]

is there any ways to make multi-barrel weapon works properly?

[ruby shadow]

what does properly mean?

[sonic shoal]

so that each projectile flew out of its barrel and the model disappeared in the barrel

[ruby shadow]

probably if you store the projectiles within it similarly to how the rpg rocket is stored in the tube

in a slot

im 90% positive you can have multiple slots and each can be occupied by something

[sonic shoal]

if you have time, could you help me with this in conversation, please?

[ruby shadow]

I haven't actually played with slots yet, I just know they exist

maybe the guy making GRAD knows more about this

@restive shore

[sonic shoal]

Thank you!

[ruby shadow]

[winged wolf]

Multibarrel feature is there on muzzle.
Basically you define barrels, each having a point on model. When shooting, system should cycle through barrels.
Check muzzle component for barrels property

[sonic shoal]

I've been doing this, but it doesn't add new projectiles to the launcher chamber

[sonic shoal]

All I need is that when firing from a rocket launcher, when fired, the projectile disappears from the barrel and flies away to the target

[restive shore]

@sonic shoal you can try MuzzleInMagComponent, that sounds like what you want. You might want to try multiple of those, though, as this component can only handle one projectile per chamber, I think

[sonic shoal]

unfortunately, I tried all the options with different components of weapon barrels and nothing worked