enfusion_ai

[upbeat smelt]

i have kunar map

[wise pebble]

Did you configure the AI World?

[upbeat smelt]

yes but it looks like it's resetting

After closing and opening World Editor

[upbeat smelt]

i have fix the reset problem

Unfortunately, AI still doesn't appear in multiplayer

[upbeat smelt]

Create entity @"ENTITY:2305843009213695360" ('SCR_AIWorld') at <2712.951172 7.999195 3094.130615> @"{E0A05C76552E7F58}Prefabs/AI/SCR_AIWorld.et"
PATHFINDING : Navmesh Init 'Soldiers'
PATHFINDING(W): No navmesh file specified! Will initialize empty navmesh world.
PATHFINDING : Navmesh Init 'LowRes'
PATHFINDING(W): No navmesh file specified! Will initialize empty navmesh world.
Create entity @"ENTITY:2305843009213695360" ('SCR_AIWorld') at <2712.951172 7.999195 3094.130615>
PATHFINDING : Navmesh Init 'Soldiers'
PATHFINDING(W): No navmesh file specified! Will initialize empty navmesh world.
PATHFINDING : Navmesh Init 'LowRes'
PATHFINDING(W): No navmesh file specified! Will initialize empty navmesh world.
Create entity @"ENTITY:2305843009213695360" ('SCR_AIWorld') at <2712.951172 7.999195 3094.130615>
PATHFINDING : Navmesh Init 'Soldiers'
PATHFINDING(W): No navmesh file specified! Will initialize empty navmesh world.

how to fix please ?

i have generate new navmesh

[outer furnace]

Hey, I have no idea what could be wrong, but could you please share some info about where are you saving your addon, your navmesh, where do you have your reforger installed, maybe it is something about that.

From the log snippet it really looks like the file is not setup in the aiworld.

[upbeat smelt]

yes sure

[outer furnace]

And I expect that arcadia navmeshes are saved in the addon itself?

[upbeat smelt]

I generated it myself and saved it directly in the project

[upbeat smelt]

how to save in addons ?

[upbeat smelt]

Always the same thing after several tries

[upbeat smelt]

PATHFINDING(E): Unable to open navmesh file ".NavData/cwnavmesh/navData_0.ntile"!
PATHFINDING(E): Not able to load data from file .NavData/cwnavmesh/navData_0.ntile
RESOURCES (E): Failed to load '

I've built a terrain and wanted to generate a navmesh so AI can function. I've generated the navmesh and I can see the lines drawn and generated around the map. When generation is complete I hit save whole generation and it brings up a window asking where I want to save it, there are no options so I hit ok and it opens windows file browser. I navigate to my addon in the workbench and make a name. So I have my navmesh file in the project and I can reference it in the AIWorld. When I launch the scenario and spawn an ai to direct around I'm given the error above. I notice that the .NavData folder is not visible in the project and when i try to import this navData_0.ntile is says registration failed. this is extremely frustrating as I've followed several guides but cant seem to find where I've gone wrong. Has anyone else dealt with this?

[low sequoia]

Same problem for me with Navmesh in mission making when i have try. And im not able to generate only some tile to dont have a bigger mission folder.
For solve the problem of Pathfinding i have put all the folder .NavData inside my mission folder. But for a mission it's too mutch.

#enfusion_scenario message

[upbeat smelt]

ok ok

Does your .navdata folder appear in Reforger Tools?

[low sequoia]

Nop, only in my windows folder. And for import the .nmn i have to put them via windows folder too. Because if you drag and drog they dont work.

If you read the tutorial for navmesh you think it's easy... But after try you be in a nightmare xD

[upbeat smelt]

yeah xD

[upbeat smelt]

hi guys i have another problem with navemesh

I've already changed as I'm told but that doesn't solve the problem

[low sequoia]

Nobody at BI to help us to work with Navmesh?

Navmesh is a nightmare at the moment.

Maybe it's planned to improve and fixe things related to Navmesh?

[halcyon bridge]

I had no issues with it, generated navmesh, saved in a subfolder in project, added to aiworld

[low sequoia]

You have try to generate only a tile ? It's impossible for me. And add the whole navemesh are too big for a mission.

[halcyon bridge]

ah a singular tile, one sec

[halcyon bridge]

works, I added two bunkers, regenerated the tile, added to config, reloaded terrain

you can see bunkers on the partial navmesh

its a bit clunky but it works

I used info from this page https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Navmesh_Tutorial#Modification

[low sequoia]

I dont know how you have succes to save the tile.

Because when i go in Navemesh Tool > "Generate" tab > i use connect then i go to tab View > load the default navemesh "CTI_Campaign_Eden.nmn" > push button "Rebuild tile".

After that i have try to hit the button "Save Generated" -> PATHFINDING : Nothing to save. Or the button "Save Marked" PATHFINDING : Nothing marked.

[halcyon bridge]

save window pops up for me when I click regenerate modified tiles or whatever it was

[upbeat smelt]

For me the files are saved but I can't get it to work I still have an error

I've always navmesh is missing...

[upbeat smelt]

Could I have an example of a screen in which folder you saved the navmesh?

[halcyon bridge]

It's in the screenshot.

[upbeat smelt]

ok thx

I don't have the same thing with the Navmesh as you do

and lowres

[balmy gorge]

A whole devblog dedicated to a new AI cover system and reaction to gunfire ?!? dies

[upbeat smelt]

My head is going to explode with the Navmesh

It always comes back to the same thing

[opal zinc]

Are the files it mentions there are the location it says?

[upbeat smelt]

Yes

[outer furnace]

Hey, from everything you are sending it looks like the system doesn't see your navmesh files, if you can please send paths at which your navmesh files, addons, world reside.

[low sequoia]

It's there a way to save the area after having hit the "Rebuild Tile" button ?
or it's only possible with "Rebuild changed tiles (count: 0) button ?

[low sequoia]

I have record how i try to making the navmesh working for my Platform in the sea. But dont work... What i make wrong ?
https://youtu.be/jI7TIhEWDxg?si=EopyMZo-PVNxeXWN

[outer furnace]

Hey, so.. it is not suppose to work like that 😅 I didn't even know you can do it like tbh and I am surprised that it works to say the least.
First I maybe explain what is happening here. As you noticed moving objects marks tiles as changed, but is not reliable as you noticed with the composition. When you click regenerate changed tiles it gathers those tiles, generates them and saves to file you select. Now why it asks you twice? Because you have Soldier and LowRes navmeshes enabled and it does this process for all enabled navmeshes. So first saved file should be from Soldier navmesh and second from lowRes.
Secondly why it doesn't work for you: Since you put both of those generated files in the override it overrides with them in order they are in that array. So firstly you override the navmesh with Soldier patch and then you override same spot with LowRes. As you might noticed it results in navmesh on sea level only as LowRes doesn't care about most entities, but just the terrain (and sea). So to "fix" it just don't override with the second patch.
Thirdly stuff that you should know before using overrides in general. There are some issues with overriding like that. At the moment when you move objects somewhere on the map it can happen that EntityID (which are used for the navlinks (jumping over walls, doors, etc)) change as they are depended of order of load of object. With this simple example it shouldn't matter (🤞), but for maps done from scratch or for heavily modified maps in multiple areas it can happen that regenerating just part of it might cause AIs to be broken everywhere else.
Lastly I would like to say that hopefully we will have time to make navmesh generation and modification more user friendly, but some changes are coming. Namely we would like to fix aforementioned EntityID issues.

As to how it should be officially done. Just normally connect and generate, but this time don't skip the area dialog but input min and max of square in which your changes are contained (either in the tile index or in map coord). This should generate the navmesh inside and that can be used precisely the same as a patch.

[low sequoia]

Thanks for the response. I go try with this 😉

[shy lake]

@Devs
When the new A.I. cover system arrives will we still be able to use the way cover search is done now by searching for holes in the navmesh using "SCR_AIFindCover" task?
So the new A.I. cover system will not replace but add another way for A.I. cover utilization?

[random owl]

@shy lake "SCR_AIFindCover" now utilize new cover system. (which in some sense is searching for holes in navmesh in more reasonable way)

I don't see much value for leaving it how it was. If you need remain this type of node than you can recreate your own and replace it in your mod. However I would encourage usage of the new one as the previous has unpleasant performance impact. (in fact if you want just navmesh holes than you should do your own as the most expensive are traces from edge of a hole)

[shy lake]

Many thank's. 👍
Yes im aware the new A.I. cover system will be a lot better in terms of performance.
May i will try to use both of them to some degree just to solve some limitations of the new A.I. cover system e.g. to include trees for cover.
Well good to know it can still be utilized.

[shy lake]

Just to let you know:
Reloading bug is still a thing in 1.0.0.95 but now ARs are affected by it.
Possessing bugged A.I. with Game Master and reloading their weapon solves it.
Pretty much same thing like it was with MG weapon type.

[shy lake]

Would it be possible to get a setter and getter for formation scale?
Right now formation scale can only be modified in behavior trees so i would love to have a scripted alternative so i don't have to mess with the .bts to modify ghe formation scale.

[low sequoia]

Hello,
There is possibility to reduce the detection radius of IA ?

[shy lake]

I have ONE tiny complain about the new A.I. cover system.
It seem's it doesn't work with pre-placed A.I. like Game Master live placed A.I. work just fine.
Besides of this and my mod is kinda RIP now my faith in Reforger vanilla A.I. has been restored with current experimental update. 🦾
Best A.I. update since release of the game!

[echo minnow]

Wait why is your mod RIP? Didn't it do other cool stuff also other than just cover and smoke?

[shy lake]

Yeah there is some stuff i can still use however A.I. was re-written pretty much 100% for the better.
It's a totally new A.I. system where i need to test and adopt.

[shy lake]

Nevermind "SCR_CoverQueryComponent" is disabled in pre-placed A.I. SCR_AIGroup.
So no complains at all.

[echo minnow]

Even when the AI "Brains are improved in vanilla" I need to have the possbility to adjust all the details of the ai units like disable investigate and force movement speed etc.
That has always been the best thing about your mod for me

So I don't think your mod is RIP at all 😄

[shy lake]

Yes true many Game Master stuff is just copy paste.
However when it come's to A.I. cover and movement it's a whole other story.
Still it will be worth the work.

[echo minnow]

Yeah I imagine there is a lot of work if they redid the whole AI

[echo minnow]

I wonder if the AI actually gets suppressed now or does that need to be modded in still?

[halcyon bridge]

they do get pretty quiet when you shoot them

[echo minnow]

I remember that with CRX they sometimes started to retreat even

[fervent crater]

Yes, the new AI in experimental is a big update. They don’t just mindlessly attack you. Almost feels like your @shy lake AI mod 😁

[shy lake]

Yes they did a really good job with it. 👍
BI devs are really good in delivering complex systems with a lot of functionality and still keeping them somewhat organized and understandable.

Is there a specific A.I. dev assigned to code all the A.I. systems like TargetCluster and Move/Cover?

[balmy gorge]

They released the Cover System? Experimental? Edit: NM I see the Branch notes. Good stuff BI keep it coming !

[fervent crater]

I’m curious. Does ai have some sort of overall accuracy setting? With experimental I still find them too accurate.. they still one shit you a lot from 300 meter with an unscoped ak. This needs to change.. it feels so frustrating

[balmy gorge]

This is so essential making a game feel either satisfying or Aimbotty. I think the main factor they need to introduce is Honing In time. Meaning: Ive been playing and testing Skyrim VR's AI and the one thing that feels very realistic is -you can instinctively tell when an enemy archer has honed in on you and will score a direct hit. When this factor isnt calculated in -its leads to Ai that can just turn and snapshot you from hundreds of meters out

[fervent crater]

I also see the same problem we always had with arma 3, where the ai seems to be able to see over the the edge of a hill or object where you are unable to see them because of the foliage in front of your nose.
That compared with the fact that they now take cover and pop in and out of cover when shooting you makes it very difficult to even see where they are shooting from.
You trying to figure out where they are based on sound.. they are already aware and honed in on your position.. and with their laser aim just one shot you.
I feel it would help if you lower their accuracy.
With the crx ai mod they seem to try and maneuver more making it a bit easier to see them and get some shots back.

[balmy gorge]

The fact that now pop in/out of cover sounds promising tho ^^

[balmy gorge]

Maybe someone with reforger AI scripting/Functions can tell us if there is indeed a "timeOnTarget" tying into distance and accuracy factors. Something tells me there aint

[fervent crater]

@balmy gorge maybe @shy lake knows?

[shy lake]

A.I. aim accuracy is based on skill level.
There is also a random factor and distance calculation.
What do you mean by "timeOnTarget"?
If they get better the longer they aim?

[fervent crater]

In the vanilla ai is there an option to set some some sort of global accuracy multiplier? I see your ai has a lot of variable options, but when you place the vanilla ai there is no way to set anything.
It might be an idea if you can set some sort of global (in)accuracy modifier server side to dumb them down or up

[balmy gorge]

Yes exactly that as in real life -the longer you take to hone the better the shot (within reason of course). A player can either snapshot without taking time to hone and his probability of hit is pretty low, but as he takes a second to hone (take time on target) the higher the acccuracy. Again just for example -Skyrim archers, you can literally see/feel them adjusting their bows too you so if you dont move, or counter quickly, you know its gonna land on you. I think Arma3 they had something similar to that in terms of AI's stance -the longer the AI was in that stance, the higher their accuracy. The problem was even it might have been in the Maths to calculate -it had no real impact in terms of "feeling right".

[balmy gorge]

AI Devs -please consider adding a "timeOnTarget" as a function to better measure the AI's realism in aiming/timing aspects. Alot of the reasons people say Arma 'Bots" are terminators are exactly for this reason. People can feel instinctively when an opponent has taken the small amount of time to get a better aim on an enemy -even if they cant articulate this sense. I get that it may be CPU expensive, especially with alot of bots but it could even be an option: 'Realistic AI Aiming: On/Off' if your playing with alot of units, but would sure make the average mission alot more fulfilling and fun.

[shy lake]

How will the A.I. cover search range/radius affect performance?
Let's say 360° 10m vs 360° 50m.
Guess the smaller the better?

From the A.I. cover queue debug it look's like there is quite some math involved to find the best cover position.

[random owl]

@shy lake like difficult to say without measurement on practical data. More to that - we still work on optimizations so whatever you would measure now it will be irrelevant in next version.

@balmy gorge I'm not hundred percent convinced. What you suggest would lead to quit different design from what we have. Also it's not so difficult to mod it in a way you suggest and performance shouldn't be a concern here. What we have seems "good enough" for now. Some iteration for aiming is necessary(fast moving targets, realy realy long distances etc. ) so don't take it we discarded it as an option. But not in next update.

[shy lake]

Man the new A.I. is crazy good!
Pretty much all A.I. behaviors have been improved so much!
Very very well done. 👍
I will never ever complain about A.I. is given no love.
Safe to say this is by far the best vanilla A.I. of any Arma game and it has just been started!

Also new A.I. system(s) is/are very modding friendly.

[shy lake]

Only thing i don't understand is why are there so many native task nodes used now?
Like for example esp. stance chance and movement speed.
I will not be able to mod them so i would need to replace all of them with scripted task nodes.
Is it for performance reasons?

[fervent crater]

I totally agree with how good they are now. After testing for a while now you can really feel the difference between mg gunner and a sniper for example. Very nice to see how different they all react. I have been trying to replicate some of the issues I have with the ai being overly good and accurate in gm, but have no success so far. It seems almost as if they react different (better) in gm as opposed to combat ops. Could it be that there is some sort of code left that needs updating in combat ups that make them react differently? Talking about the vanilla ai in experimental btw.

[shy lake]

Guess you did not save the navmesh in your project folder?

Somehow since 1.1 i don't see A.I. using UGLs anymore or very rarely.
Guess it has something to do with the increased invisible time of SCR_AICombatComponent.
Pre 1.1 they used to shell like crazy once they lost los like after 3 sec. or so.

So your navmesh data is in rungun folder?

[echo minnow]

Yeah I havent seen the AI use UGL or throw frags that much anymore. Just smoke smoke smoke 😄

I wish there was a just a general skill slider in GM that not only adjusted accuracy and reaction time, but also the change use grenades etc.

[stray crystal]

yes ,but i cant choose it in choosenewnavfile i cant go to run gun folder

[shy lake]

Right nades are missing too.
After this A.I. overhaul it would be almost scary if everything would just work perfectly fine.
Guess it will still need some patches/updates till everything is back in place.
Which is understandable.

[echo minnow]

Yeah and AI using grenades is a difficult thing to balance. On the other hand you want them to throw occasional grenade but not have them constantly throw them and with 100% accuracy

But anyhow, now I have implemented working backblast. Time to try to make the AI dodge it like you did 14 years ago 😉

[shy lake]

Yes i think they did use grenades pretty good pre 1.1 at least at close range.
But yeah it needs quite some conditions and stuff to mess around with.
Oh nice. 🙂
Yes i have already seen your clip and i was already about to ask why not add some brain instead of killing. 👍
Thought it might be PvP focused only.
Well good to hear you will mess with the PvE part as well. 👍

[echo minnow]

I will try but I am not very experienced with Reforgers AI

[shy lake]

Well i would start with finding a way to check if any A.I. is close to the AT guy.
Maybe by using the touched by sphere or touched by AA.AA thing which will return whatever is in a specific range to a specific position.
You could use it to check for "SCR_AIAgent" and once it found one checking it's position and angle.
I used this to check if a cover position was already occupied by another agent.

Bet i still have the code of my A.I. backblast avoidance somewhere on a HDD.
It will need some modification to work in enfusion but the math part of it should still be legit.

[echo minnow]

Hmm thanks 👍
I will at first stage just look into detecting it

Another thing I am wondering. How difficult would it be to change it so that the AI runs from cover to cover?
Instead of crouch walking like they do right now.
Would make them seem much more like actual players.
I really don't know why it isn't like that in vanilla when the AI is now otherwise really excellent.

[shy lake]

This is pretty much what i'm messing with since 1.1 was released.
Righ now i try to create color based "Combat Modes" like in previous Arma where each mode/color will use a specific A.I. behavior.
RED: A.I. will move using cover however they will move even without cover or if suppressed.
YELLOW: A.I. will move using cover however if suppressed they will not move and stay in cover if any.
WHITE: A.I. will move using cover to cover only if suppressed they will stay in cover.

So goal is to create something like this:
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Combat_Modes

[shy lake]

Even if A.I. is much better now there is still a lot of stuff to tweak and improve.
Devs did create a very good base system by reading all the conditions used by it you can clearly see what they are aiming for.
However they sticked with a more generic way like moving forward or backward using stand or crouch.
I think the way it is now is perfectly fine.
BI has created a good base to work with and modders can tweak it to whatever they like.
I'm sure they will extend and improve it even further this is just the first step out of many.

[urban furnace]

I tried increasing it and i think my modded version use UGL very often in Experimental Ver

The challenge was to make the scripted task nodes for BT to work as intended

Btw have u guys ever found that the AI shooting through grasses?

Even when u already prone and concealed?

[shy lake]

Can you tell which value you increased and which node(s) you modded exactly to get it work?
I'm messing with another part of A.I. rn and tbh i'm too lazy to research on my own.
As far as i can tell grass has no view-blocker so yeah it will not affect A.I. visibility at all.

[random owl]

Grass and perception interaction is still missing but one day will be there. Depends on engine programmers not ai actually. So please stay patient.

[slim pebble]

Has anyone tried to partially generate navmesh on current experimental version? Seems that it's not generating covers for some reason.

[urban furnace]

I dont know how exacly how i do it, but my biggest assumpsions was the target score is affecting it

im still trying to look which params affecting it

and the weapon distance min max

Im still looking a way of how to Force AI to shoot into nothing

is there any way to do it?

[last canopy]

i generated navmesh on experimental version and it created covers for me atleast

[slim pebble]

Hmm, could you describe how you generate navmesh? Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

[last canopy]

i just press generate nothing else

then again i do it fully from scracth

but i done a few tiles also and that seemed to work

[slim pebble]

I'll try to do it again

before (basic GM_Arland navmesh)

generate (tile range)

it's there, so I'm saving it into separate file

via "save generated"

aaand no covers

I still think it's some bug, because I did nothing extraordinary
btw, I'm loading it as navmesh file override

I loaded just this navmesh and yeah, no covers

seems that if you're using tile range feature it will not generate covers
hope that someone from BI will notice this

uuhhhhhh

looks like it's a visualization problem instead of generation bug

if you switch filter to "Cover probe points" it shows that covers are there, but they will be shown only in the current camera tile, you need to redo filter (select something different, then cover probe points again) if you moved camera on some other tile

[slim pebble]

so, I finally found Sinewa post about how it should be done, so I have only two questions:

1. Is there any way to get current camera tile coordinates (not X-Z position, but tile coordinates)?
2. How to do multiple area generations into one file (I have multiple areas with new objects on the terrain)? Or it should be multiple override files, one per area?

Honestly, current navmesh tool experience is quite headache-y with very little documentation, I wasted 3 evenings and still have no right navmesh. I think it definitely could have some UI/UX improvements and fully fleshed arma platform youtube channel tutorial.

[halcyon bridge]

I noticed that whenever I edited something on a tile it would register for Rebuild Changed Tiles

But I agree the navmesh experience is a bit weak

[slim pebble]

Yeah, it changes for me too, but it seems there is no way to actually save rebuilt tiles

[halcyon bridge]

It did work for me a few weeks ago, not sure about now

[urban furnace]

is it me or the pathfinding of the AI is bad?

[echo minnow]

Bad in what way?

[balmy gorge]

yes please explain. You mean at picking obvious routes or more strategic routes?

[urban furnace]

picking obvious routes when traveling, because i dont see the path cost for now (?) CMIIW

or could we set the path cost?

[balmy gorge]

Thats cool, Hell im only 67% convinced anyone is really out there on the other side of the internet. The thing Im looking for is the AI, giving off a similar sense of really zoning in on target and the shot(s) they pull of "feeling" like thats the way it woulda gone down. Ive been knee deep in Ready or Nots AI targeting dev blogs since pre-alpha, any they've really been thru the ringer with fans get really impatient but they stayed committed to every level of transitional type animation that would take place during both AI targeting decision and indecision -that gives a great feeling of realistic tension. Did they pull it off? Not yet but the good stuff is all baked in it just now needs to be better calibrated. Forever now people love Arma but i dont think id surprise you to tell you they often complain that the AI are just unrealistically accurate and the gunfights dont feel dynamic or emergent . Not only do i feel a timeOnTarget would help in terms of more realistic aiming times but the small transitional animation -like tensing and slightly raising/tightening the trap muscle when honed in and ready to fire -accuracy should go up! Firiring before that out of either desperation or necessity should evoke a wider spray with more dispersion and at the far end of that spectrum Blind fire like untrained insurgents often do IRL -plenty of footage. This would lead to a feeling of both dynamism and satisfaction when fighting AI and would give Arma that "Forevergame" -type status imho.

Edit: Before anybody chimes in, (you know who you are) Im am fully aware that Ready Or Nots Scope is all CQB while Arma has to manage a huge scale

[slim pebble]

I noticed that some doors in the default (non modded/overriden) building throw Door Navlink at position (X, Y, Z) doesn't have a valid door entity associated. warning in the console. Also, it seems that AI units basically teleport through door instead of opening. What could be done to fix that?

this is the one of the doors with this issue

[urban furnace]

pretty much always happen

PATHFINDING(E): Unable to calculate straight path, too much path points in findStraightPath!

[outer furnace]

Hey, known. Unless it causes more problems you can ignore 🙂

[urban furnace]

OK,

@shy lake for the grenade behavior i have found on throw grenade to Behavior tree that switch to smoke nades only, so you can change it to frag

[echo minnow]

Where can I change AI accuracy error and reaction time values in 1.1?

[regal terrace]

Found an ai limit issue: #enfusion_generic message

[random owl]

I cannot say I understand you fully. I have kind of feeling that "instinctive" understanding how it works and how it could work doesn't match what actually we have. So it's difficult for me to somehow reasonably answer those proposals.
I see two major problems from what I understand:
One is we don't distinguish between players and AIs. Basically we don't want cause immersion break by AI playing intentionally animations which player won't be ever using.
The second is what you describe seems only relevant on close range - most of our engagements are beyond distance where such changes would be visible which would mean most likely we can use those time resources more effectively in some other aspect of AI.

But as mentioned doesn't mean wee won't be touching aiming/accuracy anymore. But it's not top priority right now.

[random owl]

We did some fixes for navlinks recently. Should be better in next bigger update. (yea we were managed finally get rid of teleportation trough door issue)
Would need investigate what was wrong in those particular one, maybe just rebuild of navmesh would help in this case.

[slim pebble]

Yeah, it was on pre-navmesh test, I haven't encountered this issue since I created navmesh patches for that location. 🙃

[echo minnow]

The AI is pretty damn good now. The best that Arma has ever seen 🙂
The only immersion breakers at the moment are that their peripheral vision sometimes sucks which allows you to stand next to them without them detecting you and the fact that they still slow crouch walk across the open instead of running from cover to cover.
I am trying to fix these with mods but it takes quite a bit of time to get familiar with the new systems.

[balmy gorge]

Well Im not sure how to express any more blantantly than: AI's accuracy should feel more human like depending on the same factors that humans accuracy are dependent on and should also display it within "micro-transition animations". In Arma 3, AI disparity in skill level was never achieved properly -ive spent hundreds of hours testing and trying to properly refine it but it just wasnt possible with all the Ai aiming subskill reiterations and interlocutions. In plain speak: A Sharpshooter (given a very high aimingAccuracy) vs A Tank Crewmn (9mm smg low aimingAccuracy) on an Airport runway strip at 200m difference -the Sharpshooter should have had a clear win rate yet they were even at 50%. Also, targets that were within AI FOV no matter what degree outside of Zero (out to 180) seems to have the same accuracy -not needing the same required time a Human player would need to properly adjust -again, my timeOnTarget suggestion -these include medium and long distance.

As far as animations, im not suggesting Arcadey differing animations with ones set for player and one for AI -though the series could stand to add Blind Fire and quick lateral Evasive (was in Arma but not applied) etc to both for a little more variety as that is a very real world tactic (yes for CQB). So AI should have increased dispersion relative to how outside his direct cone FOV is of locked in or most likely target. For long range, an AI thats had 3 seconds to "Hone in" on a player should have an extremely high hit chance percentage as an AI that has just recently swiveled around and poppped off a shot. And lastly again, remember at least in Arma when the Player could "Focus" his shot by either zooming in or some such fashion, a small micro-transition animation should be applied that reflects the body/mind locking in to fire. These may seem like small trivial things -but they are what seperate the feeling of fighting an AI that is not superhuman but rather is effected by the same limitations as Human players -nothing extra animation-wise needs to be added to the AI and you would have a much more dynamic and instinctual satisfying firefight imho.

These arent necessarily suggestions for Reforger which i dont have installed, but the future of the franchise as i know Arma 4 has stated a much larger and robust AI overhaul/development

[outer furnace]

I would recommend overriding AIWorld limit of AIs to higher value if it causes problem for you

[regal terrace]

yes I ended up having to script it as the max of 2000 is too low for me: ```c
aiWorld.SetAILimit(5000);

[jovial pecan]

hey so I'm trying to create a navmesh for a map and i have the SCR_AIworld, but i don't have Soldiers as an option

It won't let me bake it

[oak cairn]

thats way too much effort for any game dev company lol

thats something more for like a modder to do especially with how insanely open the moddability of Enfusion is

whats more important is that the AI Framework is completely open for moddability because Bohemia building insanely specific AI for situations etc might not be the best for time & modders. I know a lot of people will come around and say that it's really important that the base game has ultimate improvements and best AI, but I think foundation for the modding community is the most important aka most focus should be on Enfusion Engine itself. If you look at Reforger, The most popular servers are the heavily modded ones anyhow, (i.e, DarkGru).

[balmy gorge]

No its not "Way to much effort for any game dev company" -matter fact your counterpoint contradict themselves -Its too much for a Dev but perfect for a modder.? As someone who follows AI development for past couple decades, asking for an AI to actually have to be accountable for timeOnTarget and lowering accuracy relative to their FOV is not "way too much to ask". The contrary, its not asking much considering we're approaching the testbed for Arma 4 ( the supposed Flagship of Cross arms military tac shooter). Go look into the development of Star Citizens combat AI (still very unfinished but the amount of minute attention to detail is insane) or Ready or Not. These are only too much to ask if a Game Dev doesnt really want to significantly improve their AI which has been trapped in spaghetti code for the past 15 years. If youve been following- they themselves have admitted they needed to break the whole thing down and start building from the ground floor up. Level design and animations alongside Navmesh and Ai behaviours are all things to bake in early and then give the modders that solid foundation. Hell i know a guy still modding full time (literally) trying to bring proper navmesh to Arma 3 for the past 3 years. That kinda heavy lifting should be done by one group "the AI team" -not left for modders.

[oak cairn]

I appreciate the response, well worded of course.

Its too much for a Dev but perfect for a modder
What about Arma 3's Continued Support adding new commands and improving the Engine with every update and a lot of those command request come from CDLC or Modders? Wouldn't that be too much from your PoV?

As someone who follows AI development for past couple decades
Same, In-fact I'm developing a gamemode for ArmA 3 focused on improving the AI and making it challenging (Made possible by many additions to the Arma 3 Engine like Hashmaps.)

asking for an AI to actually have to be accountable for timeOnTarget and lowering accuracy relative to their FOV is not "way too much to ask"
While I agree with the concept, I don't agree with it being in Reforger or Arma 4 because I just dont believe Bohemia is focused on adding such specific features. Bohemia has always been an incredible company for building a beast platform for modding, so no I don't think I'm adding too much for the Devs considering they are very open with supporting modding to the extremes hint why Enfusion is so open access. I mean shit some Bohemia Devs are also Modders.

Go look into the development of Star Citizens combat AI (still very unfinished but the amount of minute attention to detail is insane) or Ready or Not
None of these are comparable to Arma Series tho because Arma has always been a foundation, and that's just the truth. Not to discredit Bohemia's Modelling nor lore nor Weapons. They are good but at the end of the day, Arma is the ultimate moddable military sandbox simulation game. It's the only one too.

These are only too much to ask if a Game Dev doesnt really want to significantly improve their AI which has been trapped in spaghetti code for the past 15 years. If youve been following- they themselves have admitted they needed to break the whole thing down and start building from the ground floor up. Level design and animations alongside Navmesh and Ai behaviours are all things to bake in early and then give the modders that solid foundation
Yes, they are building a modular and performant base for the AI. What I'm saying is I don't think super specific features like this is needed. I don't want it to be like Arma 3 where im disabling 17 things to get the AI to work like I want it. XD

Whos the modder btw sounds familar? XD

[balmy gorge]

Nah they've fallen in the habit off passing the buck laddy. Ive had these conversations with these devs since before the majority of this crew were in BI employees. From OFP it was 'Yeah froggy, wait for Arma1". No progress. "Wait best is to wait for Arma2" -we got micropathfinding and crawling under fences -something, but not much. Wait for Arm3!" -Ai went backwards in which units movements make zero sense standing up, rotating away from know target direction, moving 2m, going crouch, rotate, lay in the street. Chicken dance. Well now look where we are -coming into Arma 4 days - and literally an add 1 function gets this much grief....The crowd here just never changed. Lambs/VCOM alot of those guys throw the towel in because theyre constantly fighting with the code to make any real and effective changes to human-ize the AI. But cool man, be happy with the status quo as end result.

Ps: Yeah they gave us some functions -but they "The AI DEV TEAM" should be the ones to also calibrate and implement them. Crazy, I know..

[oak cairn]

True true, but they were working on the same engine the whole time. Enfusion is completely different, I mean AI in Reforger alone is already better in many ways.

I'm not happy with the status quo at all. I'm absolutely obsessed with better AI. that's the whole point of my gamemode lol.

[oak cairn]

I agree but let's not go overboard

[balmy gorge]

Yes, and again that why its time to really get a dedicated AI team on the job this time. This is ground floor -a chance to start over and do it right. My suggestions really arent that intensive -and frankly, as an AI modder I would WANT to have something shiny and new with the new flagship

[oak cairn]

don't we have something shiny and new? XD

or I am stupid

[balmy gorge]

But its Not Overboard -nothing ive suggested is that over the top on any level. I could send you a 30 pages long list of Star Citizens AI improvements every quarter -they are absolutely insane but i love it. Animations and emergent firefight behaviour for every conceivable situation. In relative terms -my suggestion is so minor its concerning that even that could raisse alarm flags. Its a very conservative, if it aint broke...dont fix it protectiveness around here. I used to be like that too...lol...then I saw they really werent planning anything new AI wise from series to series

[balmy gorge]

In terms of AI firefights

[oak cairn]

only? For me personally, I want an entire Chain of Command from Squad to Battalion or Regiment maybe more.

tactics and doctrine etc.

but i like frontlines 😄

[balmy gorge]

Youd wanna team with rydgier for that type of command and operation

[oak cairn]

i appreciate that, Stellaris is also really good with this. In terms of Dedicated AI Team, I think its good, not sure if Bohemia is interested idk.

honestly AI Driving looks revolutionary

[balmy gorge]

Anyways -lets hope this Ai team is committed to something to really knock our socks off rather than the previous very tenative -dont mess with that code !!

[oak cairn]

but i feel like in terms of physical shit that should of been fixed years ago driving should of been fixed in A3

[balmy gorge]

I am happy with the new NavMesh and reactions to things like grenades and cars tho- thats some progress

[oak cairn]

i hope Planes and Helicopters actually do something

honestl

planes and helis basically broken in Arma 3

for the AI.

[balmy gorge]

Yeah, obviously the Air AI is extremely basic -but im all about fix the ground guys first.

[oak cairn]

yeah true

hopefully vehicles are wayyyy better too

[oak cairn]

yeah i have my own group/dev team

but we havnt moved to Reforger, we'll probably wait for A4

let enforce cook a bit more.

most thing I'm excited for is the fact we have interactable buttons in Vehicles

lol

[vocal raft]

does anyone know a guide to start making squad commanding mods similar to SOG AI, All-in-One command menu and C2?

[balmy gorge]

Those mods are built upon the initial ability to just basic AI commanding. They cant make a mod until in-built AI commanding exists

[vocal raft]

so how did those mods make those commands then, was it with scripts and if so, where exactly should I look for squad command scripting?

[balmy gorge]

I don’t think you understand- Arma 3 had commands for AI built into the game. Reforger does not

[halcyon bridge]

best you can do I guess is be able to give AI like 6 waypoints

[vocal raft]

Wait just to double check, is this the channel to discuss arma 3 modding or arma reforger modding?

[halcyon bridge]

reforger modding, even though it's called enfusion modding it's actually used for reforger

[vocal raft]

is there a channel dedicated for arma 3 modding then?

[vocal raft]

nvm, found it

[supple jacinth]

Hmm people arguing about reforger with their unfinished ai sounds kind harsh anyways there's already a mod well small to command defenders ai for conflict game mode but yea I accept that there's still not a complete ai command in reforger.

[deft canopy]

Did you find an answer to this?

I'm looking into modding those things myself and was wondering if it's a system that already exists that I can manipulate or if crx created that whole system.

[urban furnace]

You can look to Aim Error offset

[shy lake]

@urban furnace If you like to create a mod which mainly contains code and script from other mods ( CRX ) at least make sure to give proper credits to the original author who spend his time to create them in the first place.
Guess that's not too much to ask for?

[urban furnace]

Havent i put credits?

I get most of the Code from your AI code Refrences and I Heavily Modified it even Im using a lot of BT

but most of the Code not working on 1.1

so I have to scrap most of it

[shy lake]

After you was asked to.
And your scripts are not "inspired" by they are just copy > paste from CRX.

[urban furnace]

it was Inspired and I forgot to change it, because there are still code that I haven't clean up?

wdym by copy paste?

I almost scrap everything?

[shy lake]

Whatever....

[urban furnace]

I dont get it?

[shy lake]

Yeah it's okay.
It's just sad and really disappointing some ppl can't respect even the most simple things.

[urban furnace]

really?

[wheat mulch]

Anyone know how to make an AI stop proning so much?

[urban furnace]

CombatMoveLogic

[late viper]

If it was inspired by, then you wouldn't need to change it. Because "inspired by" and "copied from" are two completely different things.

I hope he sends you a nice DMCA for stealing his intellectual property.

[urban furnace]

Thanks!

i mean, I put the code there as refrences, and even if i delete the code it wouldn't affecting any of the AI tho

I could even make a newer one again 🙂

[late viper]

If you have to use someone else's code as reference then you obviously don't know enough about what you're doing to be doing it in the first place. I'd suggest using his mod as a dependency, if it allows it. And make your modifications the right way, as opposed to just stealing someone else's work and claiming yours is "inspired" by theirs.

[urban furnace]

My code and his code are working on a different way?

I take it as Initial Refrences

and I didnt took any of the code to working

[halcyon bridge]

the APL license allows you to copy paste things from mods licensed APL as long as you attribute the original author

the opposite example is the APL-ND license in which case without permission from author you are not allowed to copy paste anything

[urban furnace]

after been told to I have credit him tho

[halcyon bridge]

that's what attribution is

[urban furnace]

Im just offended when someone says im copy pasting it as im not doing anything

[shy lake]

Well i wouldn't have started this if it was done the proper way.
There is/was a lot of scripts copy past 1:1 changing the tags from CRX to yours without any further modification.
I have send them to MarioE to prove my point so he can confirm it.
Also no a single credit was given which i would see as something normal even if just used as a reference.
You did get something out of it so give something back to the other side.
The time and effort it takes to write a name to give credit is nothing compared to what it takes to create and research all the stuff.
If you like to see the copyed scripts with changed tags i can upload them.

[halcyon bridge]

the license your mod is under allows copy paste anything

[urban furnace]

Here, I dont like to argue more, what do you want now?

do you want me to make it from begining again and remove it from workshop?

Im too tired for this

[shy lake]

Like i've said all you had to do was give credit's where credit's due it's that simple.
You did give credit after 3 months and only after asked to do.
Maybe next time think twice to avoid a situation like this.
Can't tell you how tired i'm to see stuff like this happening over and over again!

[urban furnace]

I mean I didnt use any of your code now? it was before 1.1 I just experimenting it and I didnt know anything about licenses

[halcyon bridge]

well now you do, in the future go over the license of the content before playing with it

[balmy gorge]

Thats how i first learned to code - ripping other mods to see how they did something, using some of their code which taught me things, until finally needing to learn proper code to get the desired effect. But always credit the guy whose code you might have started with as a template -its not asking much of anything at all from your end

[urban furnace]

1 Word to all, sorry if I cause it all problems, im just Irritated because someone says im copy pasting it

[late viper]

APL license allows people to open your mod and use bits of it elsewhere? I was under the assumption that the APL license allows you to modify the mod, not steal parts of it for use in other mods

[halcyon bridge]

With this licence you are free to adapt (i.e. modify, rework or update) and share (i.e. copy, distribute or transmit) the material under the following conditions

share, distribute = as part of your own mod as well, not a dependency

actually it literally says copy lmao

[late viper]

I'll be sure to use APL-ND henceforth

[halcyon bridge]

also, merely using a mod as a dependency is not against the APL-ND license, before anyone asks

[late viper]

I know that

[halcyon bridge]

just sayin, allegedly it comes up a lot

[shy lake]

Well i had to show MarioE prove of you using parts of CRX without crediting.

[late viper]

I just misinterpreted the APL meaning.

[shy lake]

Its copy paste even if you would have been allowed to.

[late viper]

@shy lake Write a custom license.

[shy lake]

Yeah i will go APL-ND also next time i publish somethig.

[urban furnace]

Well, im not using it anymore tho

but im alrd credits you

Im using it as experiment for config interaction you doing

[late viper]

People also think you need permission to extend their APL mod.

[shy lake]

Yes i was alreadythinking of it.

[urban furnace]

But i think i have to make a seperate version for it next time

[late viper]

You can get chat GPT to do it if you want it to sound "legit"

[urban furnace]

for experiment purpose, because It was a mixed one 🙂

[halcyon bridge]

just use ND

what else do you need

[urban furnace]

yeah

Im just sorry dude, may u forgive me this time @shy lake

not trying to offend u

but u the one makes me possible to modding the AI now

[late viper]

Maybe I want to allow spacestrider or you to modify my files for your need but i don't want anyone else to be able too?

[urban furnace]

if you dont like it, i can remove it now from workshop and make a newer one

[halcyon bridge]

no need to make a license for this, just tell me in a dm its ok for me to edit it

[late viper]

Ah, then you have proof in DMs

Getting a bit offtopic, i'll be ending my portion of the discussion here. lol

[urban furnace]

settle it down @shy lake i dont like grievance for too long

[shy lake]

I'm totally fine with it.

I said what i had to say that's it for me.

[urban furnace]

Ok then, we cool now?

because I still had a lot to ask to you

[shy lake]

Sure we cool. 👍

[urban furnace]

great

[shy lake]

I'm not a fan of this kind of stuff i just like to mod A.I. in peace.

I mean this drama.

[urban furnace]

yeah me too

[supple jacinth]

Are you guys think when the mortar update comes from bohemia you guys will need to redo some scripts in your mods excluding ai driving from this?

since probably ai driving will be the final gemstone from arma reforger..

[icy wharf]

@shy lake is there an update coming to the CRX AI? I used the cancel movement physics a lot for a more in depth placement of enemies whenever I made ops and it has become a conflicting mod so I can’t use it, just curious if there was anything in the works!

[shy lake]

Yes i'm still working on it.
However pretty much the whole vanilla A.I. cmbat system has changed and is much more complex now.
So it will require quite some time researching and adopting CRX to it.

[icy wharf]

@shy lake Awesome! I was just curious if it was making a comeback, definitely a great mod. 👍🏼 Keep up the good work!

[haughty ivy]

Question, are mod sets open source where others can fork it and modify the mods or you'd need to ask the Original dev for permission?

[halcyon bridge]

depends on the license of the mod

[haughty ivy]

Ah, i see 👍🏾

[urban furnace]

Yes learn from my mistake mate, better look at the license first

[haughty ivy]

Will do! Thanks

[wheat mulch]

Found the script you were talking about but not sure where to put it

[urban furnace]

There was something about Stances on each threat and Range of the Shoots

I will give some example after i hop on PC

[urban furnace]

Oh and enable combat move on far range

[modern vessel]

HEy just a quik question the eastern europe conflict map seems to have an issue with ai orders if you give ai move orders or any other´besides the defend ones. The ai wont do the order and th order will just get removed anybody know how to fix this issue or do I need to wait for the map maker to fix it ?

[urban furnace]

@wheat mulch You can change the Move and attack logic on the CombatMoveLogicAttack pretty much on rq.m_eStanceMoving or End

[wheat mulch]

alright ill check it out thanks!

[urban furnace]

You can Influence the Cover stance as well on CoverParams

[upbeat thistle]

Is it possible to have the AI Capture Relays? There is a AIWaypoint_CaptureRelay but I can't seem to get it to work.

[upbeat thistle]

Well, I have it working with editor placed units and spawned AmbientPatrolSpawnPoint, just can't get it working with SCR_ScenarioFrameworkSlotWaypoint

[wheat mulch]

So i figured out how to change it in the script but it seems like i cant replace the original script with the one i changed? im pretty sure im supposed to be able to replace the CombatMoveLogic_Attack.c with my edited one but cant.

i assume i have to make a new Node but im not sure how to do that

[wheat mulch]

nvm figured it out

but they still seem to be proning even though i replaced prone with Crouch

[urban furnace]

are they in cover?

[wheat mulch]

Nah they arent

i basically changed stanceend from prone to crouch

on long combat and close combat range

slapped the script on the behavior tree

and replaced the node with the changed one

then slapped that on the SCR_ChimeraAIAgent then onto the Character

so im not sure what i did wrong

[urban furnace]

this are only the combat move request

[wheat mulch]

oh which ones do i need to change then?

[urban furnace]

Have you triend change this?

[wheat mulch]

Yea

i replaced all of the ones that say PRONE to CROUCH

[urban furnace]

Have u tried change it on the cover param?

[thin reef]

need help of ai moders is there any way to make bots stay in the building using the game master? like i know you can order defend the building, but if youll breach it ai will run away outside and try to flank

[thin reef]

and how do i turn off the investigate feauture for bots? they go check every single gunshot they can hear

[edgy coral]

Is it possible to mod the distance at which the AI will see or engage the player? I was playing combat ops and would love to make my own combat ops extended settigns mod (ie a ui with a few knobs) but I'm uncertain of where to begin here haha.

[wise pebble]

If I want a large number of individual AI stay at static positions, I could create a group and tiny defend waypoint for each of them. Is there a better way to do this?

[lilac thorn]

tHANK YOU

Thank you

[random owl]

Basicaly on character_base prefab you can change PerceptionComponent settings

alternativly, by changing perceivablecomponent, you could change factors for diferent stance affecting speed of recognition

[edgy coral]

👍 thank u

[random owl]

also - there is PerceptionManager which has settings for light affecting perception. So you can tweak e.g. how well they can se during night. But it's little bit difficult to get it right.

[edgy coral]

what about this perception factor in the slot ai?

I kinda just wanna jank with combat ops and go from there haha

[random owl]

In fact you can check scripts what it does internaly 😉

[edgy coral]

nice 😄

I've been playing anti stasi on arma 3 and its good fun, but reforger combat ops could use some polish to bring it in line imo so I wanna take a shot at it all. thanks for the help/

[random owl]

tldr; set perception factor on perception component of given Ai
"Sets perception factor - how good this AI can recognize enemy, independent of enemy state. 1.0 is standard value. Bigger value means faster recognition."

[edgy coral]

kk sounds good

[random owl]

(and as I'm checking it - there is no attribute on perception component so you need set it trough it.)

[regal terrace]

How would I go about changing the priority of targets for ai? If a heli flys over, all ai shoot at it instead of a player 5m from them which makes them quite easy targets.

[balmy gorge]

Woah that looks pretty neat. Would Illumination Perception curve be able to adjust AI's visibility of enemy in shadow? That was a major PITA to get to work in Arma 3 -but well worth it

[random owl]

yes - mainly for players, AI vs AI calculations are simplified.

[random owl]

This is done trough coeficinets in SCR_AICombatComponent.InitWeaponTargetSelector
But according to coefficients it's ok, it should value people more at range below 100m or so. But it's not that simple also group decision making here can be in play.
Still possible there is some bug in it.

[edgy coral]

has anyone tried making a suspicion meter for combat ops? i've been thinking about how to do this but haven't come up with much thus far.

[balmy gorge]

Do you mean an AI state in which they are suspicious of nearby enemies? Pretty sure ive read and experienced an investigative state

[edgy coral]

yeah, and also a UI indicator for the player. It would be nice to have even just a eyeball that becomes darker or lighter based upon how close u are being to discovered, esp for combat ops.

[balmy gorge]

Ahh - I had a "InShadow" Icon for Arma 3 for both player and AI -you mean like that?

[edgy coral]

in the same neighbourhood yeah

something thats similar too, but not the exact mechanic of, the undercover system with antistasi

sorta like u can disguise urself as a civilian

[balmy gorge]

I doubt theyll implement that in Vanilla. Thats a pretty wide scope

[edgy coral]

truly haha, hence why Im thinking about modding it in 😉

like overthrow for reforger has a wanted style system thats pretty similar

[balmy gorge]

Pretty sure Antistasi used the Incongnito script of subterfuge -like not wandering off road to avoid suspicion kinda thing

[edgy coral]

hmm I see eh

I have a programming background so I dont mind writing some code to make it all go brr but I want something a little more complex

[urban furnace]

Pathfinding to Cover still an issue?

[lost torrent]

does the PID component affect AI aim ability? Or is it something else?

[balmy gorge]

AIHeadhAiming compnent..? Interesting. So the AI will actively aim for you head? Hopefully theres an aiming penalty for that

[random owl]

you mean this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaqd8Dl_jNE&ab_channel=Sparker

[random owl]

nope - confusing name I guess. It's component for head "rotation" of an character - free look etc. limits how much you can turn head around.

[random owl]

That's actually legacy code. We don't use it normally. It can be reenabled via diag ai->aiming->Use aim at version

I have no idea if it works now. I was about to remove it later.

[lost torrent]

Oh great, thanks for explaining - probably won't use it but it did pique my curiosity!

[edgy coral]

yes that exactly

tho apparently that mod doesn't work with MP :/

[random owl]

I guess it's doable make it work for MP even in script but would require some amount of scripting etc. Basically on server you would need for every player what is done here in the mod and than write some replication to clients to get proper value.

[balmy gorge]

Do AI characters actively turn their heads from side to side to spot enemies? I remember that in OFP but in later games it seemed they'd move their whole body alot more which is less desirable when wanting them to stay properly oriented

[edgy coral]

Truly. I have a programmign background so I don't see this being too hard to begin with tbh, just gotta figure out what part I need to tweak/understand the architecture I guess. But otherwise if the mod is under a standard arma public license, I can fork it then eh?

[edgy coral]

hmm so Im a bit stuck, how would you approach it if the component in question were attached to the player controller lol? How would I go about replicating that information without replicating the controller?

[edgy coral]

Nvm haha I was able to get it to replicate fine using a different controller then the one I had intially had (the MPScenario one vs the default)

[edgy coral]

I ended up switching back to the default controller such that it'll be scenario agnostic and it seems to replicate fine. Im guessing this is the base class that the other ones inherit from such that the functionality I added with my overwritten class is inherited as well. But I'm uncertain haha, it seems to work with peer tool tho 🤷

ofc idk if the mod will be all that compatible with other mods given that its overwrites the default controller 😓

I'll have to refactor and come up with some better architecture I guess, if it eventually conflicts.

[verbal terrace]

how do I create a navmesh for ai ? I have some extra buildings on my everon version but I would like to make the AI see them, right now they just move towards a sound but stop against walls

is there maybe an easy way to do it?

[wise pebble]

In that scenario you'll want to look at partial generation instead of full one

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Navmesh_Tutorial#Partial_Generation

[valid radish]

Are there any ressources on writing your own behavior trees already / are the files for the generic "Ai Soldier" available somewhere to take a look at ?

[late viper]

Yes, look at the vanilla ones. I don't recall there being anything in the samples.

[valid radish]

Checked out the vanilla stuff but it is pretty hard to get into it without any introduction of some sort that shows how things work together / how you can actually debug and expose variables from the code to the BehaviorTree and stuff like that

[ocean sigil]

https://discord.com/channels/105462288051380224/1227686602537697351

[devout isle]

I'm trying to mod SCR_EGroupType to add an extra enum (for civilians), but I can't see where on Character nor Group where I can tag them with this enum. Basically I'm hijacking the FIA ambientpatrol to spawn either regular FIA military or FIA civilians, but I can't find how to filter the entities other than this SCR_EGroupType. AmbientPatrol doesn't give many options. Note: I'm using GameMode_Plain, not Campaign. @regal terrace or @opal arch

[opal arch]

I think those Enums are set up in the Entity catalog of the faction. Lemme fire up workbench to confirm

[merry blade]

Any idea why my ai is not even showing and complete ignored everything ? Nether reacts any ai placed in the world

[low sequoia]

Maybe the faction manager are not set correctly ?
If you dont add proper faction and the friendly set they dont work.

[merry blade]

they are setup with the correct factions

even base game ai wont do anything

[low sequoia]

SCR_AIWORLD set up with good navmesh ?

[merry blade]

yes

same way as it is in my other world and that works fine there

nw i fixt it

mfs was overwrited by a mod we use

[merry blade]

is there an option to give ai infinity ammo ? instead of giving them more mags to carry

[lost torrent]

you could set up magazines that have 1000 rounds that you only give to them, but that also depends on people not picking them up and using them

[thin tulip]

is there anyway in the editorto change the AI's skill for the ambientpatrolspawnpoints? ive tried just placing groups n stuff but cant figure out how to get them to actually respawn after the group dies

not too sure about scripting by any means either

[wanton root]

out of curiosity; how does AI handle navigation inside buildings? in arma 3, i remember it being controlled by waypoints which were included in the building's p3d or something similar. Is it still the same way?

[balmy gorge]

No I don’t believe so thank god. It should now be more of an open navmesh. I have no ideas if windows are given special locational intention but I hope so

[halcyon bridge]

Navmesh

[urban moth]

Does the OnProjectileShot event work for AI? My simple component is attached to SCR_ChimeraCharacter and I can see it is initialising, just when the AI shoot I am not getting any output like I do for my player.
If this is not the case then what is the alternative for tracking projectiles fired by AI?

[urban moth]

I found a potential solution to the issue above thanks to @late viper!

Here is the message #enfusion_scripting message

[wise pebble]

I want to make AI (specifically one-member groups) stay in turrets.
If I tell them to man the turrent using a "Defend" or "Get In" waypoint, the AI will always leave the turret soon after getting into combat and charge on foot.
Even when the AI has direct line of sight from the turret, or the target is very far away, this still happens.
With non-turret AI, I could prevent this by increasing waypoint priority, but with turrets, that doesn't seem to work.
Can anyone who knows more about AI give me some advice here?

And then I have a second question about my approach with non-turret AI:
Currently, to create more or less "static" AI, I assigned the group a very small defend waypoint.
However, this is neither elegant nor does it work in all cases since the AI group will still e. g. move to cover or (unless I adjust the waypoint priority) even to distant combat.
What would be a good approach to make truly static AI that only changes its stance, rotates in place and aims, without moving anywhere?
Would I have to create a new waypoint type / behavior tree for this, or is it something I can achieve by only configuring the AI agent or group?
I tried disabling movement in the AI Config component, but this didn't appear to have any effect.

[wise pebble]

I guess without mucho texto, my questions are:

1. What's an easy way to make AI that reliably stays in its spot, even during combat?
2. The same but for staying in a turret.

[halcyon bridge]

what can I do about this?

Reason: <0x000000001B3A5630> SCR_AIGroup : AI/BehaviorTrees/Chimera/Group/ActivitySeekDestroy.bt
AI/BehaviorTrees/Chimera/Group/MoveToLocation.bt (RunBT : ID 0)
AI/BehaviorTrees/Chimera/Group/Group.bt
(RunBT : ID 0)

AI/BehaviorTrees/Chimera/Group/MoveToLocation.bt
SCR_AI Process Failed Movement Result : ID 0
Failed move to waypoint <2157.885986,60.901001,2111.945068>

Function: 'NodeError'
Stack trace:
scripts/Game/AI/Utils/NodeError.c:8 Function NodeError
scripts/Game/AI/ScriptedNodes/Groups/SCR_AIProcessFailedMovementResult.c:79 Function EOnTaskSimulate

seems like it just starts spamming eventually

[halcyon bridge]

does AI not work on a server without players?

[halcyon bridge]

it seems this is the case, I would like to force AI to run, if anyone has ideas

[wise pebble]

I've been trying to make an AI character attack a target.
My idea was to use the existing Attack behavior tree, which runs Attack_Default. This tree gets its target from GetAttackBehaviorParameters.
So I tried to do the thing from the screenshot, but this didn't work, SetAttackBehaviorParameters was red for some reason I don't know.
What's the correct way to make an AI character look for and attack targets?
Edit: I figured something out

[wise pebble]

Does the behavior editor have a node for doing basic math, or would I have to make a new scripted node for that?
Adding, multiplying variables and such.

[wise pebble]

How do I use danger events in behavior trees?
I know there's a decorator for testing, but I'm not sure how to get the actual event.

[broken apex]

Is it possible to run AIs on a separate server and then have them plug into the server, like a player? Running large amounts of AIs seems pretty taxing on the server, but if there is an system where an AI can run independently, on its own VM, it would allow me to scale up the AIs on a k8s cluster or something similar, without the overhead for the server. Sorry if this is ignorant, I'm a backend dev, but don't know enfusion very well yet.

[wise pebble]

No, this is not supported

All scripts, including scripted AI nodes, run on the same thread

[velvet bane]

Do any mods add new order/waypoint types for ai units currently?

If so, I want to see how they went about it. If not, it's not obvious to me yet how it should be done.

In A3 I'd make a new Task type. For Reforger the most similar thing I can see to what I have in mind is the Defend Order.

[dim birch]

None that I’m aware of but someone might be working on one

[wise pebble]

AI is not very well documented, you'll have to piece most things together yourself.
I haven't made a waypoint yet but AFAIK it involves making a script class and a behavior tree.
If you look at an existing example, you can probably figure something out.

General info on BT editing: https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Behavior_Editor

[verbal terrace]

hey guys... I'm having problems following wiki on how to update an already existing navmesh...

I currently have a customed version of everon but sadly my AI's dont recoignize most of the added structures I've added.

I'm not very practical with Enfusion Workbench, at least I have done some work before aready but never AI related, so I find myself pretty lost with this subject. I was looking for a video around but no content at all.. Anyone as a little bit of patience to actually write down maybe a better guide?

So far I've only gotten the map ready and I'm utilizing the standard EDEN NAVMESH for soldiers...

[wise pebble]

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Navmesh_Tutorial#Partial_Generation

[verbal terrace]

how do I even connect to the navmesh server?

I tried following the guide but theres not many illustrations on where to find each options

[wise pebble]

In the Navmesh tool, it's in the middle of the bar in the top

[verbal terrace]

I think I have created a full navmesh lol

it took like half hour

but how do I put it in the tools now?

I'm trying to move the file but it isnt creating on the workbench

at least I have a navmesh file on my pc

[wise pebble]

You click the "Save Generated" button and specify a path that is in your mod projects folder.

It will let you save the navmesh outside of there, but you won't be able to access it that way.

[low sequoia]

In mission editing for performance view, it's better to have less IA group with multiple IA inside or more groups but less IA inside ?

[wise pebble]

I haven't tested it, but I would assume less AI groups is better.

[low sequoia]

ok thanks

[random owl]

yes and also from functional perspective - large group is divided into logical fireteams and is able to coordinate within the group

[limber minnow]

Hi guys. So im in the process of learning how to do stuff lol. My first task is to get AI on my dedicated server to spawn in with modded uniforms and weapons. What would be the first thing I would do to accomplish this, or start the learning process with it. Im assuming you need to use workbench?

[limber minnow]

What scripting launguage does Arma 3 and Arma reforger use in reguards to Enfusion. Im in the process of learning as Im novice to this. Ive been coding dayz servers and I work as a geologist/ mudlogger analyst in the oilfield so Im good with computers, but want to learn this.

[late viper]

Yes, I'd say you need to learn how prefabs work and then make some custom loadouts for your AI.

[late viper]

A3 uses SQF, it is in no way relevant in Reforger. Reforger uses it's own "custom" language.

[limber minnow]

Is this Zelik with Zeliks characters mod

Thanks for the info on what i should do.

Im in the process of learning the Workbench as well. How do even start with bringing in data to begin this process. Just need a little direction

• Actually I found this https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Prefabs_Basics#Creating_entity_prefab_in_World_Editor

[limber minnow]

on the Arma Workbench, the files that show up when im clicking on folders, some have a lock on them. What does that lock symbol mean?

or better question, if i wanted to pull in the generic/ vanilla prefab for a American rifleman, where do i find that

[compact orbit]

ayo does anyone know how to assign waypoints to ambient spawnpoints?

like when the AI spawn in, having them force move to somewhere, i cant seem to figure that out

[wise pebble]

ArmaReforger/Prefabs/Characters/Factions/

If you want to edit that character, override the prefab.

[oak sequoia]

anyone know how to import a navmesh for a custom map, used enfusion to create the nav but cant import to give AI the map

[wise pebble]

You should save it in your project folder

[oak sequoia]

its in there

so when i open i cant find it

in creative lounge if you wanna help @wise pebble

[wise pebble]

You can see it in the resource browser?

[oak sequoia]

no wont register

[wise pebble]

So the navmesh.nmn file is in your project folder, but it's not visible in the Workbench?

[oak sequoia]

corect

[wise pebble]

Even though the path is the same?

[oak sequoia]

yes

wait

actually wrong directory

ty

[haughty ivy]

Did CRX Get updated yet?

[shy lake]

There is a experimental version of CRX in experimental branch.

[low sequoia]

Thanks for all your work ! 🥰
Big UP to you !

[vocal path]

Can i find out which SlotWaypoint cause the Error?

SCRIPT    (E): Virtual Machine Exception

Reason: Waypoint is not set properly

<0x00000235C67A8700> SCR_AIGroup : AI/BehaviorTrees/Chimera/Group/HandleWP.bt
 (RunBT : ID 12) 
AI/BehaviorTrees/Chimera/Group/Group.bt
AI/BehaviorTrees/Chimera/Group/HandleWP.bt (RunBT : ID 16) 

[fleet ibex]

You can see notable and important changes on AI on the 1.2 update here:
https://reforger.armaplatform.com/news/modding-update-june-7-2024

[low sequoia]

Generate Navmesh for partial area is very needed now 😆

[brittle hearth]

Loving these guides for the new update btw, was just wondering, shouldn't the new road network file (*.rnw) also be part of this guide?

[brittle hearth]

[vocal path]

Is the workflow from the Wiki to crate partial NavMesh, still up to date? https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:Navmesh_Tutorial

[outer furnace]

We hopefully should remove that file before it gets out of experimental. That's why it's not there.

[outer furnace]

It's a bit obsolete. We know it and plan to update it. For now if the step is impossible to complete just skip it.

[brittle hearth]

oh thanks for the heads up, that makes sense

[vocal path]

Does anyone have a short Step list, how to partial generate a NavMesh to update it? I Rebuild the Tiles, but can't save it.

[vocal path]

got it

It will be cool if the Navmesh-Map in the Tool Window automaticle moves to the Camera location.

[opal sedge]

Hey, wanted to see if you guys think this is feasible before I dig in and if you might be able to point me in the direction of any resources so I can learn what I need.

I want to try and implement OpenAI's text to speech in the AI as a proof of concept and maybe follow it up with speech to text so you can talk to them. I do a lot of work with OpenAI at work but keen to learn how I could implement it in reforger.

Namley how I can make the AI make a https request and then stream sounds. Also if there's something that t automatically makes mouth movements for the sound.

[frail sundial]

Here are the docs for reforger, doesn't look like it supports curl

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_Reforger:REST_API_Usage

[opal sedge]

Hmm, so voice might be off the table for now, but looks like I could atleast support dialog

Via text

[frail sundial]

yea I was doing a quick read over of the openAI API docs, looks like you could get a little something cooking. but my web dev knowledge is ultra basic.

[opal sedge]

I have the opposite problem haha

[regal terrace]

What script is it that puts an ai group into a vehicle? I'm looking to automate this.

[regal terrace]

hahah wow, I guess Im getting close, I spawned 144 AI in a single BTR... 🤣

[lost torrent]

clown car btr

[balmy gorge]

That'd be cool if it had been actual dynamic cover move

[shy lake]

I think there is a problem with A.I. events like "DamageTaken" and "ProjectileHit".
When combat starts they work but after like 1 min. or so in combat they don't do anything anymore.
Maybe a problem with event cleanup where they keep stacked and fail to register new events?

[regal terrace]

I keep seeing some (not all) of a group with a waypoint start to take baby steps and they get left behind by the rest of the group

[vocal path]

Hey, how do i set an Group Formation correctly?

m_group.GetFormationComponent().SetFormation(SCR_Enum.GetEnumName(SCR_EAIGroupFormation, m_GroupFormation));

All my spawned groups just using the Wedge formation, even if i set Column or Staggered Colum

[shy lake]

Try with a string instead of enum so "Wedge" or "Column".

[vocal path]

Hi, i now set the formation as String, but the AI does still not care and using Wedge and not "StaggeredColumn"

Also, if i check it with: Print(m_group.GetFormationComponent().GetFormation().GetName()); its correct set

[random owl]

are you sure? how you figured out? repro maybe?

[vocal path]

@random owl @outer furnace Do you know what i do wrong? The AI does not use the provided Formation.

[shy lake]

Are you on stable or experimental?
On experimental there is a new "AIGroupMovementComponent" or whatever it is called to change formations iirc.
@random owl sorry guess it was my fault.
But will test again tomorrow.

[vocal path]

Experimental. Thank you, i will take a look on this

[shy lake]

I did not spend a lot of time with it.
You will need to use a additional value called "handler" and from how i understood the default value will always be 1.

[vocal path]

DEFAULT_HANDLER_ID = 0;

i will play around, let us see what the AI will do 😄

[shy lake]

Oh okay so use 0 then. 😉

[vocal path]

Ohhh working fine... Thanks for your help

[shy lake]

A.I. movement has become worse in 1.2.
They very often fail to move on specific terrain/surface conditions.
Like for example steap terrain.
Also it happens very often that A.I. is moving/standing on top of something like a rock for example which will also instantly cancel their move order making them kinda trapped in the position.
A.I. prone movement is the worse whenever they need to move over something like a rock cluster they get stuck in it head first.
Guess the new A.I. driving navmesh has messed up something? Idk...
Also A.I. group formation movement is a bit messy since 1.2.
They don't keep proper formation distance and use some kind of stutter movement where they move few steps and stop then again move and stop again.
Guess you guy's are already aware of most of it.
Just in case. 🙂

[shy lake]

Sorry i know you guy's have a lot of other important stuff to do so yeah no worries about my somewhat cosmetic complains.
Keep it up. 👍

[slim pebble]

What's the best way to attach custom behaviour to current AI behaviours? I want to call function from "support caller component" when someone from AI squad was wounded or killed. I assume it's quite similar to "drop smoke cover on kill" vanilla AI behaviour, where it could be found? I assume it would require modifying some behaviour tree?

[shy lake]

A.I. behaviors use a priority system where the one with the highest priority will be executed.
So for the start/testing you can "add" them pretty much wherever you like and set the priority to 1000.
I haven't done anything with the smoke cover so far so i can't really tell much about it.
But yes i guess it will need quite some research to modify and get it working the way you like it to be.

[slim pebble]

I only wonder which behavior needs to be modified as there are plenty of them

guess only BI devs know that

so I have to check each .bt manually

[shy lake]

It's better to find and check the class ( scripted part ) of the behavior first.
Many conditions of the behavior will be defined inside of it.
Also the bt. itself will be called from the class constructor.

I can post you the .bt and script name's tomorrow if you like.

[shy lake]

@slim pebble
Script class is called: SCR_AIActivitySmokeCoverFeature
Behavior tree is called: ThrowGrenadeTo.bt

[slim pebble]

Thank you very much!

[stable wagon]

// TODO: Behavior overriding will break the behavior, it's forbidden for now

when will this be updated?

or is there a work around i can use?

[shy lake]

What exactly are you trying to do?
How is the "behavior overriding" supposed to work?

[stable wagon]

i want to change the behavior tree for reacting to danger events

[shy lake]

You mean the "MoveFromDanger_Position" or whatever it is called?
The one used in ProjectileHit and DamageTaken danger event?

[stable wagon]

yeah for example

basicly i need to change all. i had it once with script but they changed the AIReaction and since then its not working anymore

[shy lake]

You can duplicate them from Workbench "Resource Manager" to your project and edit them.

[shy lake]

If you like to modify vanilla behavior trees you only need to duplicate the behavior tree.
No need to mess with scripts.

[stable wagon]

I need to keep the original ones

[shy lake]

The duplicate will be a copy of the original.

I think i don't really understand it.

[slim pebble]

Does overriding behaviour tree completely shutdowns the ability to inherit any future BI changes in this particular tree (as it seems that it just copies BT content into new override BT file)?

[shy lake]

With overriding you mean duplicate it?
If yes the answer is yes.
It will just copy/override the behavior tree of the build it was used with.
So if there is a game update you have to check every behavior tree you are using for changes.
This is one of the reasons why i always try to modify as much as possible in the behavior tree class ( script based ) instead of constantly messing around with updated behavior trees.

[slim pebble]

Thanks for answer!
Guess I will go with separate activity instead of overriding heal activity and modifying its behaviour tree.

[shy lake]

Cover point will only be available by generating a navmesh?
I was trying with load navmesh ( Everon Vanilla ) and save marked methode but there were no cover point.

The new vanilla A.I. system is really nice.
All the "new" feature's like projectile flyby, leave useless cover, vehicle avoidance. It's done in a very smart way and already working pretty well. 👍

[regal terrace]

I think vehicle avoidance just started working with the most recent exp update. I had a lot of ai being run over in previous versions.

[slim pebble]

btw, does anyone know how to add new activity into possible AI actions? I noticed that the method SCR_AIGroupUtilityComponent.EvaluateActivity never picks my new custom activity. Is it tied to messages system (so I need to send right message to switch the activity of AI squad)?

[shy lake]

I think i have already seen it a long time ago.
But i could be wrong.
I really noticed it just reacently while messing around with A.I. combat vehicle behavior and it was working pretty good.
Maybe it's a problem with fast moving vehicles.

[shy lake]

SCR_AIGroupUtilityComponent.AddAction(action);

Like this:

SCR_AIGetOutActivity getOut = new SCR_AIGetOutActivity(m_GroupUtilityComponent, null, vehicleUsed);
m_GroupUtilityComponent.AddAction(getOut);

You can check all the prioritys in "SCR_AIActionBase.c" to find the right priority for your action.

[slim pebble]

yeah, I found it, they're instantiated directly and it seems to be that I need to setup the Goal/Reaction system for that

There could be only one present activity for group? So, if some another activity will be current, does it mean that it could mess up, for example, healing activity (SCR_AIHealActivity)?

basically I found that Group.bt constantly checks decide activity node, and that node basically checks what messages were previously received and it seems to be that the main instigator for activities is reaction system - so, in my case, I guess I have to inject my behaviour into _Wounded message/reaction/goal thing

[shy lake]

Yes that's why the prioritys.
You can also delay the behavior in it's class by waiting a specific time bevore raising it's priority.

Behavior classes have a lot of functionality to modify them.
You should read some of them just to see what's possible.

You can add your behavior whenever you like and choose it's conditions in the class.

[slim pebble]

here's what I want to achieve - if someone from group is wounded, then the group checks if it has any guy with SupportCallerComponent, and in that case this particular soldier would try to take cover and telegraph to HQ (call the support serverside system) that they're under serious fire and needs some help (transfering support caller entity and target position), and probably some other soldier could try to throw colored smoke or flare in the sky but that's off the limits for now

so far, I'm quite confused which route I should take - while I think I finally broke down the whole execution stack from the goal/message/reaction and Group.bt thing up to smoke cover feature in the heal activity, I'm not sure if it's the correct thing and not overkill for the task (maybe behaviour would suit better?)

[shy lake]

Well there is a "SCR_AIHealActivity" class.
Maybe you could use this and extend/modify it?

[slim pebble]

yeah, I took it as example

but I'm afraid that it might mess up with healing

[shy lake]

I'm not very experianced with group behaviors tbh...

[slim pebble]

the most easiest path is to add another activity feature here

but then it will invalidate the smoke cover feature (as there may be only one feature executed), so I want to not have too tightly coupling on healing activity

deploy smoke AI task just searches for smoke feature in heal activity and then executes it

I think I might inject into wounded reaction (and this approach would allow me to do support calls on other reactions - such as UNDER_FIRE) but not sure if creating two activites would work in this case

and the third approach is to setup it's own call support goal/reaction pair and trigger it via on damage event

probably the third one is the most safe here, I guess

[shy lake]

I think i have seen a parallel feature for behaviors but not sure if it is/will work.

[slim pebble]

since it could be a group thing (one soldier calls for support, while SL/TL may throw smoke/shoot flare simultaneously), I think it's probably better to go with Activity thing
but, I have no experience with behaviours, so it might fit too

[shy lake]

Hmm... Yeah you can just try and see how you are able to get it work in the first place.

I'm not really familar with the heal/wounded group behavior part of it.

So far 99% of what i did was by using AIAgent(s).

[shy lake]

@slim pebble
Just for testing you could use the AIAgent DangerEvent > SCR_AIDangerReaction_DamageTaken.
Once the danger event was triggered check the agent's group for the radio guy.
If there is a radio guy let him radio to HQ and execute the group stuff like smoke and flare.
This is how i would probably start.

[balmy gorge]

Whats projectile flyby? Do AI now detect /get suppressed at bullets flying by them rather than just ones landing nearby?

[shy lake]

Yes it's part of the threat system and use in some A.I. behaviors.
It's pretty handy to get a more in depth A.I. endangering value.

[shy lake]

You should really check them out.
Since 1.1.x and esp. in current exp. 1.2.x they have added a lot of A.I. combat features.
To my personal likings they are a bit too much defensive but on a generic/overall level they are smart.
By reading the whole thing you can clearly see the person(s) who/which created it had a very good understanding of how to make A.I. behave in specific combat situations.
In general the whole logic of the entire A.I. combat system ( which is pretty damn huge ) was done very well.
Given it's still in a "early" developement stage Reforger/Enfusion A.I. already has a lot more to offer than RV.
Guess with time they will also add some A.I. tweaking stuff just like they did in A2/A3.

[slim pebble]

Where are individual soldier AI goal reactions stored at?

I noticed that there is no SCR_AIConfigComponent for soldiers (it exists for groups though) and BaseContainerProps hints vaguely that it's being stored in some component or config.

[shy lake]

Some base classes are used by AIAgent and AIGroup.
SCR_AIConfigComponent is used by both.

Iirc AIAgent is using the SCR_AIUtilityComponent and AIGroup is using the SCR_AIGroupUtilityComponent .

[slim pebble]

yeah, found it (took me a bit to realize that character entity prefab and ai agent prefab are separate things), thanks!

[balmy gorge]

i plan to -probably once a more full fledged SP scenario comes out (by user or Bohemia) in which i can sink my teeth into a bit. I generally work in reverse engineering style -ill need to play it and then ill kinda feel whats missing, needed etc and then start digging into code. For instance, something like Clean Sweep from OFP, easy little CQB mission but the first thing I thought was -we need more indoor enemies to ambush in and they should pop up in down using windows as cover etc....2 years later...

[slim pebble]

what's the status of road network files (.rnw)? how to generate them and are they needed at all?

there is a new road network tab but I'm not sure how to create .rnw file (seems that I was able to do such thing before in exp but there's no button to save it anymore) in the 1.2.0.70 version

[random owl]

they are not needed in the end so no need to care about it 🙂
Rebuild is done during level load as it takes just ~100 milliseconds on normal Conflict.

[slim pebble]

oh, that's great news!
I assume it will be eventually removed? And this field should be empty?

[random owl]

yup

[slim pebble]

thanks for answer! 🫡

[urban furnace]

Im still wondering if there are a few things that we can influence the Vehicle pathfinding

[random owl]

In which sense? Yes there are a couple.

[urban furnace]

The base one? Like the overall of it?

[urban furnace]

I wonder what cause this?

[random owl]

ok maybe can you hinted what would you like to do? how would like you to change it?
not sure if I want to go in overview but I could if you would wish 😅

[random owl]

problems from follow command in commanding in fact.

[random owl]

not AI stuff

[urban furnace]

Yes go with overview please, thanks :p

[urban furnace]

Hmmm

[random owl]

Ok so most basic thing lets say is setup of flags to an area and area cost.
Which would effectively allow you affect what pathfinding does.

Move than use some filter which by default is taken from pathfinding component. There you can e.g. prevent vehicle going over destructible things or make it to go over them. Also vehicles have there if they are using roadnetwrok or not.

Those area types are taken from gamemat of coliders.

This will affect resulted type in generated navmesh as you can see different colors by type.

That leads to navmesh generation and navmesh paramas. That's quit huge topic to describe here. You could tweak those and again affect pathfinding by obtaining different navmesh.

Than there is setup of navlinks and navlink components on entities. You can e.g. disable them which prevents AI jumping over certain fences or make them jump on certain thiings if you add them. Or prevent using some doors if you would like to have door locked for AI.

For vehicles there is roadnetwork which also have it's setups - maybe most important is road width of given road entity. Based on that vehicle goes in middle or try to drive on side if there is enough space for two vehicles of same size.

Also for vehicles it's possible to setup(on AIWorld) how expensive is to go on roads so if you change this you can force vehicles go straight to waypoint on navmesh rather than try to use roads.

It's quit a lot of things listed form top of my head. So take it as just brief intro.

[urban furnace]

ahhh

Nice explanation

thanks!

[rich swift]

Hi! How to assign AI to player slave group after respawn? When i add AI by user action on object, working fine but when i respawn, have to create slave group and add AI again. AI group joining message arriving but can't command AIs.
If i open radial menu and use one command, then i add AI by remote console is working fine.
Looks like disabled before first command, but why worked before from user action without radial command?

Maybe AI still in old slave group? But then why i can add by script after executed one random command?

[haughty ivy]

Good Day All,

I am trying to change the color of smoke the AI deploy with "AIWaypoint_DeploySmokeCover"

• I've duplicated the entity and edit it. No indication there of the color of smoke or grenade.
• I've looked at SCR_DeploySmokeCoverWaypoint.c. I don't see any reference to color of smoke or grenade.
• I've looked at SCR_AIActivitySmokeCoverFeature.c. I feel that this is the script controlling this and is referenced by bullet #2. But I didn't see any reference to smoke or grenade.

I did edit the character and removed WP smoke, and replaced with violet. Needs testing.

[stable wagon]

Why is my ai running always to 0.0.0?

[shy lake]

Guess they are using whatever smoke grenade they have in their inventory?
At least this was how i did it.
Check if they have any kind of smoke if yes select it and use it.
So i think if you like to force them to use a specific color you first need to make sure they have it by using a condition and spawning it into their inventory if they don't have it.

@stable wagon You are probably using a mod or do something yourself to give them wrong move coordinates resulting in vector.Zero aka 0.0.0.

[boreal quiver]

Check AI_World if you have a nav mesh generated and set. Weird but looks like AI moves to 0,0,0 without a navmesh

[shy lake]

It's the A.I.s pathfinding brain by default.
If they don't get fed with navmesh data all they know will be 0.0.0.
So whenever they get any move command they will move there.

[balmy gorge]

Like a night after heavy drinking -you too might find yourself at coords 0.0.0. Strange place..

[stable wagon]

Maybe you will find the Backrooms aswell

[oak sequoia]

is it possible to spawn ai in vehicles?

[shy lake]

There is an easy fix for this.
Simply don't touch any of this crap. 😉

[shy lake]

Guess you would need to teleport them into each specific vehicle position by yourself after they are spawned.

[wise pebble]

IIRC the compartment manager component has an entity name parameter for that

Never tried it though, and it won't e. g. allow you to teleport into a BTRs gunner seat without breaking the instance

[balmy gorge]

Actually dont drink at all - jus makin a funny

[wise pebble]

Is there any easy way to make AI stay in turrets no matter what?
If they are idle after getting in or even assigned a Defend waypoint, they jump out and investigate when they hear gunfire.

[halcyon bridge]

I was thinking about disabling their get out action if they are a gunner

[haughty ivy]

This Sounds REALLY useful tbh.

[urban furnace]

In combat component of Ai there should be Evaluate Dismount Condition, try to Modify it

[vocal path]

Question: If i try to run over an Enemy AI Character, he try to avoid the collision with the vehicle. But Civilian Characters will not do this and just stand on the road like a cow... Does anyone know the handle for this?

[shy lake]

Civilians do this too at least the vanilla.
Maybe a mod is messing it up for you?

[vocal path]

I do not have any AI Mods

[shy lake]

Maybe a faction/civilian/character mod?
I've tested it yesterday in vanilla and the civilian did run away from incoming vehicles.

[slim pebble]

I noticed that AI units no longer vault or open the gates in areas with navmesh patches.
There's nothing unusual in the logs except this spam (196 occurences).

13:57:24.899 WORLD        : UpdateEntities
13:57:24.899  WORLD        : Frame
13:57:24.899   SCRIPT    (E): Invalid SmartAction id!

I'm adding this navmesh as a patch in config. Is it known issue?

[random owl]

First - Invalid SmartAction id! is false positive which wasn't merged into release build as not every fix goes automaticly there and this one doesn't actualy breaks anything.

[slim pebble]

BTW, I'm placing search and destroy waypoint

Is there any difference between SND and Move in that regard?

[random owl]

nope SND or Defend does first move and after that WP logic

[slim pebble]

I'll try to make navmesh a bit narrower (fence and gates tiles exclusion) to see if it's really the patch thing could mess up things a bit

[random owl]

Maybe we can try one thing.

• regenerate on the fly

If you are able to place there isolated unit in front of the gate in GM

in navmesh debug widget use regenerate 3x3 while on the same spot as them

will tehy be able use the gate than?

[slim pebble]

brb, I'll try it (but I already regenerated that navmesh patch so the effect might be not observable anymore)

[random owl]

ahh ok

[slim pebble]

but if the effect is no longer observable, then it means that indeed navmesh patches mess up with smart actiosn 🫠

[random owl]

like - we were fixing how navlinks are baked in 1.1
It should work. But maybe there is still some issue causing problems when there are changes in map.

[slim pebble]

yes

[random owl]

smart actions and navlinks are different thing

[slim pebble]

navmesh patches seems to be affecting their abilities to do such actions

new navmesh patch without gates and fences

I think I'll commit it to my repo, then do a rollback commit without applying it and do your 3x3 tile regeneration thing to fully confirm it

[random owl]

no need

it's basically the same as if you regenerate whole subpart

sorry about that. Will investigate what can be wrong. For now just regenerate and sorry for inconvenience.

[slim pebble]

hope it's reproduceable (seems to be it could be easily done on everon powerplant, so navmesh patch here would allow to have clear conditions for investigation) 🙃
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T182628

[random owl]

yup, Thank you for the ticket.

[slim pebble]

hopefully the fix wouldn't require to regenerate all navmeshes 😅

[slim pebble]

sorry for referencing, but I was able to regenerate tile (3x3 debug button) in different place with this problem and yeah, it worked after that

btw, I'm saving patches via "mark marked tiles" to cutoff unnecessary tiles and then using the "save marked"

fresh 0.76 navmesh patch - no changes

[shy lake]

@slim pebble Your cover points are still there by using "save marked" methode?
You put your navmesh "patch" on top of the original full navmesh?
I was trying stuff with "save marked" but it never had any cover points.

[slim pebble]

I believe it's a visual bug - they're there

[shy lake]

Maybe i did something wrong.
I could swear i did not get them by using "save marked".
Will test again. 👍

[shy lake]

I was messing with the A I. threat system today and somehow the way of how it calculate the threat values for projectile hit or suppression doesn't make a lot of sense...
Somehow i was expecting it to be increased by steppings but it is using the danger count which will always be a high number way above 1.
The calculations are using Math.Clamp to limit the result to a value between 0 and 1.
But by using the danger count in the calculation the result will always be 1?
Is this intentional?

[shy lake]

SUPPRESSION_BULLET_INCREMENT = 0.10;

Example Vanilla:

m_fThreatSuppression = Math.Clamp(m_fThreatSuppression + count*SUPPRESSION_BULLET_INCREMENT, 0, 1);

count is danger event count and the result will always be above 1 instantly so the result will always be 1.

I changed it to:

m_fThreatSuppression = Math.Clamp(m_fThreatSuppression + SUPPRESSION_BULLET_INCREMENT, 0, 1);

Now m_fThreatSuppression will be increased by 0.10 each time the event get triggered.

[molten citrus]

Asked myself the same question last year! If you get any answers, let me know!

[merry blade]

swhat do i need to change on my old ai to work with 1,.2 again as they are walking around like morons not following orders anymore , they just do what they want or standing still all my custom orders dont seem to react anymoire

[shy lake]

How old is old?
Per 1.1.0.8 ( befor the new A I. system was introduced ) or after?
What kind of orders are they not following anymore?
A.I. stuff is changing a lot since the last couple updates.
Maybe you are still using some old outdated .bts or a old outdated modded class?

[balmy gorge]

Has the AI had this problem in the Exp version as well or did it just manifest after the release?

[shy lake]

Not following orders?
Nope.
Only thing i'm aware of not working properly right now is A.I. driving and commanding.
Autonomous A.I. is doing pretty much everything they supposed to do.

Some other minor stuff but nothing game breaking.

[balmy gorge]

Ive seen quite a few posts that the Ai have been standing around and not following orders among the people on stable branch -so youre saying you havent experienced this?

or that they follow at first and then they seem to lose command

Even one of the Devs repsonded to try and basically "regroup" them

[shy lake]

As far as i have seen it's waypoint related?
No i have not but i do not use waypoints very often which may is the reason why i have not encountered this specific situation.
I did some testing today but i was not able to reproduce it.

You have a link to the Dev post?

[balmy gorge]

Sorry no i generally just scan these threads a few times a day and take mental note

[shy lake]

Np good to know anyways.

[random owl]

@balmy gorge I think you are talking about this one
#reforger_feedback message

And I'm not aware of any issue where AI "ignores everything" right now.

[random owl]

basically formula is correct the "count" is counted wrongly. We know and fixed. Will be out in 1.3

[shy lake]

Thank's good to know. 👍

[balmy gorge]

Yes that was exactly it -thanks for clarifying and working on it

[shy lake]

So it was about commanding.
Well i thought if ppl mess a lot with different stuff like A I. commanding switching to GM back and forth it may mess up stuff leading to A.I. not responding.
Guess there are still a lot of situations/conditions not covered by the new A.I. systems/features yet.

[haughty ivy]

Hey all, I am trying to get the AI to fire an illum flare. I know the OPFOR does it when patrolling and coming in contact at night, but I need the BLUFOR unit to do it.
I see the FireIllumFlareAt.bt. There is a deploy smoke waypoint, but no flare waypoint. Can't figure out how to use the .bt and attach to a waypoint.

My end goal is getting the exfil security team to shoot a flare when triggered, to mark the exfil site. Any ideas, reply please. I'll keep digging. Thanks in advance!

UPDATE: I got this to work, but it is very hokie. I think this would work better if I could remove the requirement for AI target, and have the BT just shoot a flare. I broke the BT when I tried to modify.

[rich swift]

Hi! How to set AIWaypoint parameters? Where need add target entity for follow waypoint prefab?

[wise pebble]

Waypoints can be assigned to AI groups, if that's what you mean.

[rich swift]

its not enough, i can use ForceMove only, because not need target entity for it. But follow and get in need target entity too, and i not find where need set SCR_AIEntityWaypointParameters.

[wise pebble]

It's in the waypoint parameters, they let you set a target entity name.

[rich swift]

ah i see, i need cast to SCR_EntityWaypoint and there is a setters and getters, thx

[rich swift]

finally ais follow me 🙂

[shy lake]

Does the smoke cover waypoint even work?
I checked it yesterday but it does not have any logic.
About the flare:
Guess you could make the A.I. to aim at the sky or whatever direction you need and just fire the weapon.
With a select decorator in the behavior tree you could select between using target or custom ( waypoint ) position.

@haughty ivy

[haughty ivy]

@shy lake Yea the deploy smoke works well. I will look at that in the behavior tree. I have a janky workaround spawning and despawning AI to get him to fire, but the flare is too low in the sky. I'd like just what you described.
THANKS for your input, I appreciate it.

[shy lake]

Sure np.
If you need any more specific help with the behavior tree logic feel free to DM. 👍

[haughty ivy]

Is there any future plan to optimize the AI’s reaction time in CQC? I have experienced in SP the problem from previous titles where the AI simply takes too long (4-5+ seconds) in order to engage a target <25 meters away.

[shy lake]

Is the part where A.I. will get back into their vehicle after combat hardcoded?
So far i was not able to find the part where they get the "get in" order.
Another thing:
Once A.I. left a vehicle will there be any link remaining to the vehicle i can use to check?
Was trying with AssignedOccupant() methode but it did not return anything.

[shy lake]

Nevermind.
I just found it.

[regal terrace]

I have a feeling you might know what could be causing this? ```10:47:33.735 PATHFINDING(W): Failed to create instance of custom link! Tile: [354, 159], link_idx: 8

pretty sure "Tile:" is related to navmesh

also probably a result of me teleporting an ai group into a vehicle.

[outer furnace]

As you said it's NavMesh from engine. Basically some navlink is not woring at the position

[vague robin]

Any of you understand what this could be caused by? My server is spamming it

[low sequoia]

it's there a waypoint for garrison area ?

[ivory portal]

I noticed AI love to expend their mags on aircraft flying 200+ meters in the air prior to infantry/players entering their AO. Has anyone attempted a workaround or logic change for that?

[shy lake]

In "SCR_AICombatComponent" there is some kind of a target rating system.
Iirc they even state in the comment of it A.I. should prioritize shooting vehicles in some situation.
In general from my testing A.I. don't like to switch targets once they have one assigned.
In my test i had an A.I. attack another A.I. 150 - 200m away from each other.
After they started attacking each other i walked right in front of one A.I. with an enemy soldier to see if he will switch from his initial 200m away target to me.
Turned out he kept attacking the A.I. 200m away ignoring me even if i was moving around right in front of his face even blocking his los.
Only way i sometimes ( 30 - 50% ) could make them attack a specific more dangerouse target was by forcing them to directly look at the target.

Guess a helicopter will draw a lot more attention and less likely to lose track of.
So getting their focuse away from it may be even harder.

[balmy gorge]

Sounds like they havent implemented an 'Imminent Threat' system. Thats been a longstanding problem with Arma AI

[ivory portal]

Haha, yep. IIRC the engagement flag system helped some, but even that wasn't perfect. Ok, I'm going to play around with the decision tree and see if I can come up with something.

[oak sequoia]

Anyone know if you can spawn Vehicles wtih ai in it ?

[regal terrace]

afaik you'd have to script it. I thought I saw somewhere in the scripts it was disabled for now?

[slim pebble]

seems that navlinks on navmesh patches are still broken in the today's update (i.e. AI units will stop use doors, gates and fence vaulting in the navmesh patch area)
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T182628

[wise pebble]

There's a method that can do this: SCR_BaseCompartmentManagerComponent::SpawnDefaultOccupants(array<ECompartmentType>)
For example, I used it to create a component that will automatically crew a vehicle. But you can call it from anywhere, really.

[toxic turret]

Your mission reloading system has made this game 200% more enjoyable for my community, big thanks for all that super hard work you did. Everyone really appreciates it. Big thanks from 242!

Should I add the AI Mesh as an overwrite? Because My Navmesh has 3 slots, (Can't post images), and I have the vheicle navmesh in the 2nd slot.

I've been using GetInNearest waypoints to get my AI into the vehicles, but they seem to abandon them immediately and only sometimes fully crew them. Is there a better way?

@wise pebble

[oak sequoia]

Sick!

When doing this will the entity need to be placed in the world already?

[wise pebble]

Entity and components should probably all be initialized, but otherwise it doesn't matter.

[oak sequoia]

okay, trying to make a part in my scenario where a helicopter is in sky patrolling with ai, but very htricky to get working lol

[wise pebble]

AI can't fly.

[wise pebble]

Make sure navmesh file paths are selected in all three NavmeshWorldComponents, e. g. the GM_Everon prefab only has the LowRes one set, I believe.
I'm not sure why your AI exits the vehicle. This does happen a lot when the AI is in combat mode (or possibly, when it has other waypoints that require it to exit), but I don't think idle AI would just exit a vehicle under normal circumstances.

As I mentioned before, I created my own component that automatically crews vehicles for mission making purposes. This doesn't change anything about AI behavior, but it is a lot more convenient in my opinion. The component is included in my 'TilW Mission Framework' mod if you want to see how it works.

[oak sequoia]

yeet

[graceful latch]

Is there any modification to make the AI more difficult?

[wise pebble]

#enfusion_engine message

[wheat onyx]

hey there,

• what is the equivalent of ArmA3 camouflage config parameter in Reforger ?
• where is it defined ?

[near solar]

Is anyone here able to answer some questions about how the ai work? I do not plan to make modifications just was curious.

[wise pebble]

If you actually post your questions here, perhaps.

[near solar]

I noticed the other day when you give groups of ai the same move waypoint they tend to stand on top of eachother/drive parallel to each other. So much so that two vehicles will come to a standstill due to dragging. My question is do the ai not have the “ability” to sense one another when pathing?

Seems like they have similar problems as arma 3 as well. I understand we are in the basic stages of development but is this more of a limitation of technology or know how? Thanks

[shy lake]

Even A.I. of the same group are not aware of each other.
What keep's them in place is their group formation.
During combat they will move individually and sometimes they will run into or even over each other.
Pushing others away from their current position while moving to their new position.
Guess there could be some kind of check to make sure A.I. don't stack at the same position.
On the other hand if you send all of them to the same position they pretty much just do what they were ordered.

[balmy gorge]

A collision check so units dont inhabit same position should have been gold standard 10 years ago. in todays age there is no excuse for it at all

[near solar]

agreed would make them far more believable. Seems that's the name of the game

[shy lake]

True.
Well in the first months of Reforger there wasn't even any A.I. collision at all so they did kind of ghost through each other.
They already have improved a lot of other A.I. parts.
Guess they still have many other plans/ideas for A.I. but have to focuse on specific stuff.
BI/Arma always needs/needed some ( a lot of ) extra time.
But at the end they will get there eventually.

[queen ermine]

Remember AI is expensive and previous to this game large scale battles was a lot of ARMA's claim to fame. I can't speak to the dev strategic vision, but making AI too good means they would have to sacrifice other things - like dropping consoles.

[shy lake]

Yes there is a lot of processing going on all the time.
But i guess there is still a lot of room to improve and optimize A.I. in general.
OOP and behavior trees are already helping a lot compared to how it was in RV.

[queen ermine]

Indeed. AI has come a looooong way since when I started gaming. I wonder if next, it will be neural nets and "learning" AI building models in the backround.

The more you play the harder it gets.

[shy lake]

Bet NN will become a huge part of A.I. in the future maybe not in Arma but other games for sure.
Agree its crazy how stuff has evolved over the last couple decades.
All the new A.I. concepts are really amazing and fascinating!
Sometimes even scary.

[queen ermine]

I haven't looked into ARMA AI, but perhaps we will get there with this. It wouldn't be too hard to run something poorly optimized in script - and just tell mod users to be PC only and limit AI to <5-20 or something like that.

The biggest hurdles are not really combat AI but the sensing of the world and curbing the "AI cheating" so they seem human. AI at its' best can headshot you with 100% accuracy at 20ms reaction time at the distance of the full map - if so coded.

And then as noted, balancing how smart each unit can be, with how much you want to eat up the game loop/FPS towards AI and tossing out everything else - but who know by ARMA4 where the "baseline tech" level will be and as such, what will be standard by then.

[balmy gorge]

Now as a lifelong OFP/TAc shooter player -THIS is the last thing we want to hear. We've already been hamstrung by PvP which displace much of AI development and now we have "cater to consoles" as well. AI development has not matured on the the trajectory since OFP by any measure -this goes for most FPS Tac/MIL games in general but ill stick to the ones I know and play. 20 years and you'd expect a very robust AI which had playbooks to address different situations such as evaluating terrain, when to attack, fall back, setup and observing position, use houses , windows and other urban structures for CQB warplay. Now im not bashing the AI development here -I can see that they tore down the old system which could no longer be built upon like a mile high House-Made-of-Cards, but we are now talking about Arma4 20+ odd years later. Tac AI has barely improved by any margin, it does not "just evolve with the times" -take a look at game like Ground Branch. They had the most simple turkey shoot Vanilla AI you can imagine and had to hire Kythera (sp?) middleware AI package in which case Ive heard its not all that better. Ready or Not has really put alot of time and effort into its AI design and i feel sorry for them for the throngs of casuals "youre AI sucks!!" -when the effort is all in there it just hasnt been fully calibrated yet. Still - not leaps and bounds in gaming Tac shooter AI since Swat 4 etc and id loathe to hear (yet again) "dude just wait for Arma 5 for that....."

[queen ermine]

Well that's the nature of the Beast. Unless you're going to write the code yourself, you get what you get 😁

Yeah one would expect a little bit more considering this is the "flagship milsim game" - but that has to be balanced with people wanting large battles. Which was the problem in operation flashpoint, If I recall correctly.

But of course now here we are 20 plus years later, perhaps we can take a different road - but thats BI's call.

[urban furnace]

Arma 5 with NN AI

[shy lake]

Probably not...
Maybe some stuff but no fully NN A.I. functionality.
Bet there will be some guy's to create a game/engine fully focused on it at some point in time.
Arma 5... When will this even be? 2050?

[shy lake]

In general it feels like game developement has come to the point where they really lack new ideas and real new innovations.
It's always the same boring stuff.
Early 80s - early/mid 2000/2010s were the best times to be a gamer.
Moving from 2D to 3D and linear to open-world.
Today we have VR and Raytracing but that's pretty much it. 🤪

[queen ermine]

I think the push in the ten years has been quality and depth of scenes. Gameplay hasn't been too innovative for sure. FPS AI I feel peaked with F.E.A.R 1/2. - But I guess a lot of it also, is stagnation behind consoles. PC's are light years ahead of 10 years ago, consoles, not so much.

[balmy gorge]

I dont blame BI -its really a matter of cost of development, scope of game and clientele demand. Sadly, most people are satisfied with some enemy bots to fill up the sides for PVP or even PVE. Now im sure many PVE guys would prefer a more robust enemy AI but its not really their high priority. The guys at VOID for Ready or Not stated early on that the AI experience is of the highest priority and we are seeing some really nice stuff there. Like you order an AI to cover a corner and he'll turn and face the open door on the way there anticipating and sweeping for threats. Honestly tho, from what Swat 4 could do 15+ years ago, one would think AI could clear and sweep a full city block on its own had it remained on a steady trajectory. Remember when a BI dev said 17 ears ago that we are 15 years away from full dynamic destruction (and AI ability to navigate that) -well, certain things havent developed as expected

[merry rune]

Sadly the gaming industry has chosen to pursue the low hanging fruit of PvP, and the skillset of AI development has declined, the skillset of friendly AI development has almost completely atrophied.

[balmy gorge]

There is still another Hope...small indie devs. Seems like the bigger comapnies do a 'market research' type approach to how much resources they want to invest into costly time sinks for AI. I remember a game that went really deep into AI brain on the battlefield, it was some kinda Sci-fi shooter and they tried all of these revolutionary type AI behaviours and what not -looked great on paper, but the final product left many a shallow gamer with a thousand "AI sucks B*lls!!" type threads and the Devs kinda said -"why do we even bother...". Same thing is going on with Ready or Not Devs, Ive been a supporter since the first days and they were almost crushed ten tines over until finally a publisher scooped in and now we have something of substance. A few other indie games are trying to do some revolutionary things but it is farther and fewer between these days

[merry rune]

Yeah, but even with RoN, and Six Days in Fallujah, the sp experience is hampered because the maps/missions are designed for coop. You can't fundamentally design your maps/missions for 3-6 human players, and not overwhelm a single human player, not to mention that it causes serious problems developing friendly AI that can work in environments designed for multiple human players. I'm not sure what the answer is, as games designed from the ground up to be single player, seem to becoming rarer, and rarer.

[balmy gorge]

I beg to differ -if you watch ALL of their AI development videos -they are designed to be full autonomous with a revolutionary cover system (non-sticky) and an AI squaddie that will attempt to dissect the threshold of an entry way with their gun with unbefore-seen precision. Now does it actually play out that perfect -of course not -but the components of all of those systems are there in an impressive attempt

The level design -they have a video showing exactly how the AI "see" the Level

[merry rune]

My point is that coop maps/missions are designed to have more enemies, and enemies that come from multiple directions at once to make the missions interesting, and challenging for multiple human players. No AI has ever been able to handle groups of 2-4 enemies coming from 3-4 directions at once. If the maps/missions in RoN were designed for one human player, then the AI would automatically work much better, because you don't design sp missions to hit the player in 3-4 directions at once. I think RoN has decent friendly AI, but it's overwhelmed by the maps, and missions being designed for multiple human players.

[balmy gorge]

Well calibrating a challenge in such tight quarters in which centimeter level precision between life and death all the while implementing realistic detection, draw and aim time etc is a tough tough nut to crack. Swat 4 did a good job 20 years ago but it also lacked half of what is being attemtped here. Early on in RoN I was steamrolling levels with my AI squadddies and people complain. Just like every tac shooter out there- you will have 2 sides screaming at you -Nerf the AI/Buff the AI -without fail. Again, the systems are there, calibration can take years. Ive yet to do a full serious run, tactically using my men on the minutiae level yet -but i look forward to it and like what ive seen of the lastest in just a few playthrus

Also note -im not trying to argue with you, Ive just been watching closely their development and their dedication to AI deserve study and applause imo -i see nothing but kids b*tchin and moaning when they have zero understanding of why certain things are extremely difficult to get right in this genre. This will certainly guarentee the death of future attempts -thats why i try to get people to deep dive into what the devs have explained they are trying to do in detail

[merry rune]

I agree their effort should be applauded, and those that want to see more of this kind of AI development should support the devs.

[supple jacinth]

AI GOAP would be fine at least temporary solution until finding something better.

[haughty ivy]

Anything that makes them smarter, more scalable and dynamic (without hard coding) than previous titles = instant win

There’s a reason why lots of units in A3 will pack in mods like HETMAN, LAMBS, etc

[vocal vessel]

hello,

I have a bit a struggle regarding ai not mooving and not following wp

we thinks that it might due the a bad configure navmesh

2024-07-30T16:04:37.594260990Z      PATHFINDING(W): Params are NOT the same
2024-07-30T16:04:37.594262508Z      PATHFINDING(E): Failed to load Navmesh from file! Will initialize empty navmesh world
2024-07-30T16:04:37.628430613Z     PATHFINDING   : Navmesh Init 'BTRlike'
2024-07-30T16:04:37.628460913Z      PATHFINDING(W): Params are NOT the same
2024-07-30T16:04:37.628463456Z      PATHFINDING(E): Failed to load Navmesh from file! Will initialize empty navmesh world
2024-07-30T16:04:37.648075701Z     PATHFINDING   : Navmesh Init 'LowRes'
2024-07-30T16:04:37.648104366Z      PATHFINDING(W): Params are NOT the same

as anyone already enconter this kind of error ?

[shy lake]

Which map are you using?
Vanilla?

[vocal vessel]

Zimnitrita

Moded one

Seems the creator of the map have found the error hé have régénérate the navmesh

Thx for the help

[halcyon bridge]

how do I make AI good at aiming my turret? they either fire where I was 2 seconds ago when flying over it or dont spot me at all or dont fire until I become stationary

they point the gun at me but dont fire

its frustrating

[random owl]

@halcyon bridge "good at aiming my turret" not sure if you mean stationary turrets or turrets in helis?
But the best I can afford you - wait for 1.3 I won't promise it will be perfect but definitely better.

[halcyon bridge]

its a stationary turret

[random owl]

Only "easy" thing what to do on 1.2 to improve firing at vehicles can be -change AI skill and reduce Aimpoint size on vehicle.

But still it won't be enough to compensate all necessary (bullet travel time, heli velocity and direction etc.) in calculations to make them good at it.

[halcyon bridge]

they just point the gun at me and dont shoot tho

AI is gunner in turret I mean

and when I fly helicopter around they just look at me

[queen ermine]

First rule of robotics: "A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm." 😂

[random owl]

Maybe something changed by mods?
Yes they are ineffective but they shoot.

[halcyon bridge]

its perfectly possible I messed something up in my stationary turret but I just dont know what

my turret is an anti air gun so I would like if they were competent with it

is there something I could adjust so they instantly become snipers? just to see if it works

actually I just tested it and its not nearly as bad as the last time I tested it

however they dont reload the weapon

so as far as issues go I would like them to reload the gun (I can reload it after getting in), and my wishlist has hope that they see me from further away

[random owl]

as said it will be problematic on 1.2 as it lacks compensations
we reworked that but it won't get into 1.2

As said you can try increase AI skill and size of aimpoints.
(here and I would start with that. )

[halcyon bridge]

gotcha

thanks sorry for wasting your time

[random owl]

no worries in the end it's my job 🙂

[vocal path]

Does anyone know why my AI does not use Grenades or Smokes? They are equpied on Spawn, but never used.

[slim pebble]

is there any way to forbid seat change for AIs? I have checkpoints with vehicles with initial gunner on them, but as soon as danger appears, he quickly switches to driver seat and goes fully to "ram the barricade" loop🫠

[urban furnace]

is Finding SA in AI takes a heavy toll on resources? and Perfomance?

[shy lake]

Check the "Soldier/GetInVehicle.bt" or whatever it is called.
In the middle of the .bt there is a Decorator called "Not in correct compartment" iirc.
You could add a condition or modify it so he will never switch to driver.
However this would affect each A.I. in a turret of a vehicle.

[balmy gorge]

Whats SA?

[halcyon bridge]

san andreas

[shy lake]

Well i did not ask the question but i guess he means Smart Action.

[urban furnace]

Yes it was Smart Action

[marble grail]

GOAP AI doesn't necessary make it easier. It helps with automatically making a plan of actions for a given goal based on very well defined AI state. And with GOAP you end up working on what is AI world state, or what does this or that specific flag (in state) even mean, and how to make planner choose this specific sequence of actions, pretty much whole time - while maybe you could have made that sequence of actions yourself manually and much faster. That's my experience with GOAP.
There is still question which goal to choose, given for instance that AI knows about enemy, gets shot from another direction, while being wounded, and while squad leader AI tells him to do something else (heal some other AI for instance).
I know F.E.A.R. AI is often brought up as best shooter AI, but scope and life span of AI in that game is much different than AI in Arma.

[tardy tide]

hello, a question, i'm creating a conflict mode for a custom map, the custom map looks like already have the SCR_AIWorld for navmesh and stuff, do i need to create/configure it again in my sub-scene? or is enough if the map already have it?

[nocturne salmon]

Did 1.2 mess with how we change the characters voices? my .acp is still there with all the voice lines but they are speaking their normal language

[vocal path]

Check if the World already have Navmesh files for Solider/BTM/Low. If yes, they have to be set in SCR_AIWorld.

[tardy tide]

they are already set in the terraind mod, so do i need to set them again in the sub-scene?

[vocal path]

If they setup correctly, then no

[tardy tide]

guys, how the Waypoint Priority Level works?

1 has bigger priority than 2? or the opposite?

[shy lake]

Higher number = Higher priority.
So the opposite of what you wrote.

[tardy tide]

good, thx

[tardy tide]

what's the AI recommended limit? active and Agents?

these options

[queen ermine]

And I would bet the defaults are the recommended. Personally, I'd go till my computer blows 😂

[merry blade]

does anyone know why sinds 1.2 some of my ai (not all) all walk towards the same location out on sea?

sometimes its 1 out of the group sometimes its the whole group and they have no order , even if i give them a order to stay on DEF1 they also walk to the ocean

[shy lake]

Guess they are walking towards 0.0.0 position.
Maybe a broken, missing or outdated navMesh?
Are you using any mod's to modify A.I.?

[merry blade]

no modifyd just ai that was made before 1.2

aka diffrent clothing and such and a diffrent skill lvl but no major changes

it happend aswel to new placed ai

they all go the same way

it was all fine till the 1.2 update

[balmy gorge]

Imagine the millions of stranded AI at 0.0.0 -poor souless souls...

[merry blade]

it makes no sence at all i replaced the ai i replaced the ai world the perception its on arland wth did they do that broke all my ai ......

[shy lake]

When do they start walking to sea?
In idle right after mission start?
Well there must be something wrong at your side.
I have spend plenty time with 1.2 A.I. and never seen this behavior.
Did you check the Arland AIWorld navMesh's?
I remember there was a time when vanilla AIWorld had missing ( Soldier ) navMesh.

[merry blade]

i fixt it ... thanks

it removed the nevs .... i even replaced them before and it didnt work

i was stuck on this for 3 weeks as no one could give me an answer

now my ai even follows orders again

[shy lake]

Good.
Sure np glad i could help you. 👍

[merry blade]

now i just need to spend an hour fixing all my defence points as i removed them so they didnt go mental ....

[merry blade]

now i just need to find out why my ai dont wanna spawn on tower anymore snap is still turned off but they still spawn on the ground or in objects ..

it seems to happen with all wolfs his buildings any idea why ?

every where elsei seems to be fine even in my above water costum building does spawn them normal might be something wrong with wolf buildings then

[merry blade]

im rebuilding some old ai way before 1.2 , they walk they idle they react on order but they dont seem to attack even tho they are setup as a diffrent faction any idea what im missing ?

[polar osprey]

same thing. They all just start walking to the ocean same direction no matter where they spawn. trying to make a Defend scenario and they just dont care about the obj or shooting back at me

[shy lake]

Check your AIWorld of the world for missing navMesh esp. Soldier and LowRes.
Also make sure there is a "PerceptionManager" in the world.

[tardy tide]

question, how can i edit the range of spawning AI related to player distance?

[polar osprey]

Thanks. I had already put the navs in but I guess somewhere in testing they got self deleted

[nocturne salmon]

Ambientpatrol spawnpoint script

[tardy tide]

what does Max number of cached BTs means?

[regal terrace]

Behavior trees

[hexed fable]

Hey guys how to spawn AI with specific animation? For example reparing, sitting etc…

[halcyon bridge]

you cant duplicate behavior trees anymore?

[merry blade]

question my ai stays on locations and is not following thier path they should walk or thier def point any idea why this happends?

[wise pebble]

In GM, do they show up as "Idle" or "Following orders"?

[merry blade]

following orders

[wise pebble]

Does this happen with any order you give them, even in GM?

[merry blade]

gm they dont seem to care about . this is ai before 1,2 and they dont seem to react , i had the same where they waked to the ocean on my other mod and that fixt it by redoing the nav , but these dont seem to care at all

ill do some testing with basic ai see if they react on the things the current ai is supposed to do

[wise pebble]

Does this only happen with some specific AI characters, or with all AI characters?

Like, does this issue come from the world, or the characters

[merry blade]

iu got bhoth idle ai and order ai but the once with orders dont seem to care

they do react on people without issues it just that they stay where they are if not triggerd

[wise pebble]

Walking into ocean / towards origin can be an AI world problem

Make sure you have an AI world, and that navmesh files are specified in the components

[merry blade]

was the nev map i fixt

[merry blade]

is there someone that has made custom ai trees before that could help me out ? im trying to fix some old before 1.0 trees to get them back to work but im not sure what is missing as they do react but only till a x amount and not what they shoud do

[shy lake]

A lot of A.I. related stuff was changed in 1.1.
Scripts and Behavior Trees.
Depending on which Behavior Trees you try to recover they may will not be compatible with anything 1.1 and above anymore.
I had to start from scratch as well because of it.

[merry blade]

would you be able to have a look with me at some point see what we can use and what not ?

[shy lake]

Sure.
Just tell me the name(s) of the BTs.
Or even better if you can zip them and send me i will check them.
Also you could simply compare them with the latest 1.2x BTs.

[hexed fable]

Is any way to change AI faction on trigger? For example: OnInit=US -> ontaskfinish= fia etc…

[ebon burrow]

anyone know how to fix this error when trying to move ai, generated NVMs and got entity set up, somthing missing?

[stable dagger]

This looks it might be an issue of when the AI go to take cover or the map itself doesn't have updated navmesh

[ebon burrow]

@stable dagger i did just update mesh and problem persists, how to fix cover issue maybe??

[tardy tide]

question, AI does not know fly a chopper right?

[fringe sandal]

AI does not know how to fly a helicopter

[tardy tide]

thx, just saw how useless they are at it

[tardy tide]

where is the place to set the AI dificulty?

[wise pebble]

You can change AI aiming accuracy in a characters SCR_AICombatComponent.

If you want to change it globally, override one of the base prefabs.

[tardy tide]

👍

[wise pebble]

The component has multiple skill levels going from Rookie to Cylon.
Basically, for each increase in skill, the AI becomes equally as likely to hit a target half the size.
Except for the final Cylon skill, which has perfect accuracy. But even this does not mean the AI will hit every shot, since they might just be suppressing or firing at the last known position.

[queen ermine]

Cylon skill is nuts. It really teaches you to strike first and use superior firepower. Don't even let the enemy get a chance to aim at you.

[tardy tide]

which is the prefab for that?

there is none related to this name

[wise pebble]

You would override a character prefab, then configure its component.

If you want to affect all characters, that would be Character_Base.et.

[tardy tide]

damn no, so much stuff

maybe override stuff in SCR_AICombatComponent.c

[wise pebble]

No. As I said, you would override the Character_Base prefab.

There's no need to change scripts.

It's pretty easy.

1. Search for Character_Base, right click, override, open it.
2. In the prefabs components, search for SCR_AICombatComponent.
3. Change the skill in there, done.

[tardy tide]

will give a check to Character_Base.et, if this is so much i will just leave it, just want to learn how the dificulty is done here

how does the engine know that it is an override or a copy?

doing a copy and not changing name/folder is not the same as override?

[wise pebble]

No, it's not the same thing, since it will still have a different GUID

[tardy tide]

good to know, thx

[wise pebble]

If you just want to see how it affects AI aiming, you can look into SCR_AIGetAimErrorOffset::EOnTaskSimulate - but I already explained it here: #enfusion_ai message
For changing AI skill, overriding the prefab is the right approach.

[tardy tide]

all fine, but first i got another one

imagine another person does a modification/override to the Character_Base

but then i don't like a simple param, like stam regeneration, but i like to modify only this

w/o generating dependency on the other addon

just override the single stamina param

i see only 1 way for doing that xD

[wise pebble]

It's possible for multiple mods to override the same prefab, in that case both modifications will be applied.
However, if they are also to the same attribute, of course only one can be done, since it can't have two values at once.
In that case, load order is what matters. As far as I know, you can only force your mod to be loaded after by adding the other one as a dependency.

[tardy tide]

but this is not working like that, i just tested it

let's say,
default:

stamina_drain = 1;
stamina_regen = 1;

you set:

stamina_drain = 0.5;
stamina_regen = 0.5;

i override from base:

stamina_drain = 1; <- default from base
stamina_rege = 2;

since i'm overrinding and i want to change only regen it will override the whole prefab

so, how would i override only stamina_rege if is not from script?

[wise pebble]

It's as simple as not modifying the drain attribute.
The only thing affected by your mod are the attributes you changed away from default.

[tardy tide]

no, i tested it already like 1hour ago, it overrides all

[wise pebble]

When you override, it doesn't force the whole prefab to be the way you see it, only the things you modified.

[tardy tide]

will test it again, would be the best if works like you said

[tardy tide]

damn you are totally right

thx @wise pebble

i tested something that surely was default and i din't noticed

will this work with SCR_AIWorld.et and will keep the correct navmesh if i leave it unset?

[wise pebble]

What I said applies to every prefab.

Why do you want to override the AI world?

[tardy tide]

does not matter if the wb complains that tere is already an SCR_AIWorld? xD

[tardy tide]

because someone else set it to very much AI and i want to get it back to default

[wise pebble]

What do you mean by "very much AI"?

[tardy tide]

5k max, and 2k max active

that's very much for a server with 10players at max

also, this causes issues for Xbox series S

[wise pebble]

Unless you actually spawn that much AI, it shouldn't have an effect, no?

[tardy tide]

if there is a joker flying a chopper arround it will happen

[wise pebble]

It would be cleaner to ask the person to remove that change, if you don't want it.
Otherwise, you can of course make your own override to these values, yes.
But as I said before, it might not take effect, this depends on load order.
The AFAIK only way to always force your mod to be loaded after is to make it dependent on the other mod.

[tardy tide]

yes, know that already, my mod loads at the end

hmm, not taking effect

anyway, thx, time to sleep

[vocal path]

Hi, does anyone here know how the engine/server handles AI? So, does the AI only be calculated and streamed in if a player is close or are all Agents active the whole time?

[tardy tide]

what i saw is: there is inactive and active AI

they spawn/despawn depending on player distance

and activating/deactivating by the same

[halcyon bridge]

Is there an easy way to just disable AI from going prone?

[vocal path]

Try ForceStance on Controller

[halcyon bridge]

is this permanent?

also, is it possible to have multiple characters share perception? in the sense that all agents in a group know the exact position of an enemy if only one of them sees the enemy

also is there a way to make an AI agent see through smoke?

[vocal path]

i think the position will be shared over the AiCommunication

[random owl]

change settings of given smoke. There is a value on particle saying how much AI can see trough

[halcyon bridge]

basically I want to make a super soldier not a fake smoke

[random owl]

we have something baking in this direction 😛 but can't tell when it will arrive.

[random owl]

ok there is no way how to make smokes different for some AIs.

[halcyon bridge]

alright no worries

I thought it would be appropriate for my robot characters to see through smoke

[random owl]

with some tweaking of group logic and attack behavior it shouldn't be that difficult. We actually need spend insignificant effort to not be like that 😄 😄

[halcyon bridge]

I was thinking about making my robot enemies have overpowered intel abilities so if one doesnt have a shot but know where I am, another could headshot me through the fence I'm hiding behind

any help is appreciated, any tips about making them smarter than the human AI

[random owl]

ok you know about those right?

[halcyon bridge]

I can deduce most of them but not sure how angular size works

[random owl]

there is tooltip 😅

[halcyon bridge]

[random owl]

also this

not sure if you are using scenario framework - if yes than it's exposed there

if not you need to set it up by some script

[halcyon bridge]

oh this is cool thank you

could also make them a bit more accurate with the guns than this

[random owl]

I guess you are using "Cylon" right?

Could be in some cases due to suppressive fire.

[halcyon bridge]

this is on Veteran

[random owl]

I think it's punishing enough to be honest 😄

[halcyon bridge]

I made their eyes change color when their threat state changes, super cool

[random owl]

Btw. you know what could be fun? Not sure if it won't fail somewhere but - scale them to 1.5x size or so they are bigger and more scary. It would require additional navmesh with proper setup. On Everon would be pain in the a** due to additional data but could be fun in the end 😄

[halcyon bridge]

I would have loved that but animations will reset it unless I apply scale every frame and then it just crashes at some point

I would have to export all the animations with the scale I think to do this properly

[random owl]

yea I kind of expected that animations could kill it :/

[fiery steppe]

The a.i. already works by sharing enemy position and data. I remember it worked so well in the past that it made them see you through walls and everything. Same with the smoke. Remember the robotic a.i. voices saying "11'oclock, enemy soldier/target man." Would be cool to use that system but editing the voice sounds so they sound really robotic. Cool project dude.

[halcyon bridge]

cute

[wise pebble]

Do they bleed hydraulic fluid

[halcyon bridge]

cool idea, maybe in the future

[simple spoke]

is there anyway to restrict ai from entering an area and engaging/perceiving anything in said area?

[shy lake]

Not really.
Only thing that makes them kind of aware is when they react to enemy weapon fire but they do not share information about their enemies directly with each other.
I have seen a "SCR_AIKnowsabout" somewhat class so maybe we will get something to utilize this.

[shy lake]

If you are familar with modding and willed to spend a good amount of time in workbench yes it is.

[fiery steppe]

I haven't found the time to see how the a.i. works in refrogger yet, but the best way is to be part of an a.i. group commanded by a.i. Sharing information and reacting to it is what made them good in the past.

[halcyon bridge]

how do I make my AI shoot downed enemies?

[simple spoke]

rip was hoping there was gonna be a simple solution, even if i can just restrict the movement into the area for timebeing

would you know where a sort of starting point will be for that

[supple jacinth]

War crimes?

[random owl]

idk what is your use case - if you need it on demand adn super specific than as @shy lake said.
If you generally want them to avoid some place than you theoretically can change gamemat of that thing to produce navmesh with area type which would have avert flag 😉
Or you can add there your own navmesh area type completely and control it via pathfinding component where you can setup filters which area types to use.
Or you can add a collider into that place which would have just navmesh interaction layer.
Actually as I think about it - if you would make a prefab which would have just the collider with navmesh interaction layer than eventually you would be even able to place that from GM if done correctly or on demand created by some script. I'm not 100% sure as work with workbench - models and colliders isn't my everyday job 😅 .

[random owl]

you can change at which distance they recognize uncon 😉
Hop it will work.
TARGET_MAX_DISTANCE_DISARMED

[shy lake]

If you can get it to work the way ViktorP told it would be preferable.
A.I. has a lot of different move behaviors and reactions which you would need to modify.
Probably not worth the effort.

[halcyon bridge]

thanks