#livonia_feedback

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

exotic dune
#

(Moved to the Livonia channel)
After however long playing on Livonia, I realized that all of the ruined buildings you find around don't have non-ruined versions. I tried loading CUP to see if I could do any replacements, but not even those buildings match. Ngl, it's kinda disappointing since I wanted to make a non-ruined version of the Nadbor region.

The weirdest part - a lot of the ruins are city buildings, but in the middle of places that aren't cities, and all the (non ruined) "cities" are made of suburb-type buildings.
Edit: Some, but not all ruins have a CUP equivilant, such as Big House (v4). Notabely, in that example, the ruin has a chimney thing going through the right side carport, which is clear on the CUP model

CUP House Block D1/D2 also matches with Big House (v5)

polar berry
#

what counts as a decent gpu these days? is there a benchmark somewhere where I could compare different graphics settings to compare the performance?

trail cove
polar berry
#

i see, i have 1060 and was running on low this whole time, I might try chucking it to medium or high

weak sedge
#

I got far with a 560 for a fair while

#

upgraded to a 1660 though like, late 2019~

#

you won't run high but you can play above low :v

teal basin
#

L Livonia is bad don’t buy

turbid maple
#

Could you elaborate why its bad?

exotic dune
queen sun
#

a criticism is that it reuses assets from other titles (DayZ, etc)

#

one objectively bad thing about Livonia is performance degradation in towns & built up areas

#

Good pc hardware, empty editor, reasonable draw distance, 50-60 fps in main town. that is not good

lethal minnow
#

Mfw 60 fps is bad

#

I had like 15 in firing range once

opal token
#

in arma, everything above 40fps is great

twilit elk
#

everything above 20fps is amazing.

opal token
#

then you are playing on a potato pc or with badly optimized mods :>

wicked saffron
viral belfry
#

i suppose in part due to the colossal amount of trees present compared to other maps?

#

its completely unplayable with a high render distance

turbid maple
#

I enjoy the reply, but that was 3 months ago, There is no need to reply anymore

wicked saffron
#

why do you need high render distance if all you see (on the ground) are trees?

paper oasis
viral belfry
#

fact of the matter is it runs like shit, no two ways around it, i have games that look twice as good and should be twice as intensive running at three times the frames

paper oasis
#

Arma 3's ugliest part isn't even its average FPS but its 1% lows... it is so easy for any hardware to take dips into 30's and 20's FPSs lows and it is so easy to trigger those FPS falls (explosions, cities, vehicles, shooting) that it makes the experience quite "stuttery", which gives a worst experience than having low 30 FPS but at least stable and that newer lowers as much.

opal token
#

dayz engine is not the same as a3

#

so comparing performance doesnt really make much sense

gloomy kiln
#

I have it on max render distance and I only have a 1660S

#

it runs completely fine

#

no idea how

paper oasis
trail cove
#

nope

paper oasis
#

Yet DayZ got the vehicle physics update from Reforger, my point being that just because they are different engines or different iterations of an engine that doesn't mean that fixes or methods cannot go both ways, from an older engine to a newer one and vice versa... it is just a matter of willingness and resources really

trail cove
#

cool that you know how the backend there works if it's "just" willingness and resources. Should have a green role if you're a dev

paper oasis
# trail cove cool that you know how the backend there works if it's "just" willingness and re...

I gave you the exact example of what is possible given real world scenarios and not by using my expertise. I never said it would be easy, just that it is possible. It is easy to make up excuses of course but there were no excuses for DayZ getting Reforger fixes even thou those two are also on different engines and that is due to the resources still being allocated to DayZ compared to A3

bold oar
#

The Dayz engine as far as I understand is a "hybrid" version of the Arma RV and parts of Enfusion, it only makes use of Enfusion's rendering, animation and scripting systems.

round badge
#

The rendering is also quite different from todays enfusion
it uses what enfusion back then used for rendering

onyx gyro
#

The rendering in DayZ is incredibly basic compared to Reforger

#

Wait, just realized that was from 3 months ago

teal basin
#

Not worth this dlc

#

I bought it for £20 refunded on steam and still have the map so I’ll take it

wicked saffron
#

but can u access it?

valid sigil
#

You can't access the map without the dlc.

humble stream
#

Promet gang (no we won't talk about being able to backport it in for free*)

viral belfry
#

Promet is good but I dislike the comically large sight

flat halo
#

Same unironically

remote current
#

Hmm, anyone looking for that Livonia easter egg?
Given the hints from dev streams "Its something fairly big" and "There are hints in the map descriptions", right after deer skull discussion.
Also reading map hints:

Deer are not what they seem...
The biggest deer ever hunted in Livonia was a 32-point stag, shot in the Muratyn forest district in 1864.```
I've went on a deer hunt around the liviona, various deer remains was added together with the contact DLC.
I've located quite a few lone deer skeletons and also 2 large deer graveyards.

Anyone got any other clues, or am i just hunting a red herring?
plain idol
#

Is there even a list of known livonia Easter Eggs to start with?

remote current
#

There is one known in Dolnik, SCP room 173 (Thats only during campaign)

#

thats the only one im aware of

plain idol
#

There's also the morse code Moses rocks in the north (reference to enoch, projects code name)

remote current
#

this is the most filled one i found

#

also where are these rocks?

plain idol
#

I'll post a picture when i have a chance

plain idol
#

There's also the Polish comedy loading eater egg (Grzegorz)

remote current
#

few developer names on crosses scattered around

plain idol
#

Sorry, late night, almost forgot it before going to sleep
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/711364096494272577/1151661298396954634/enochMorseCode.png
Everything after here may be wrong, but if you take the tall and short rocks as dashes and dots, respectively, it reads:
-- --- ... . ... -.... ---... ..--- ----.
MOSES6:29
Which as far as I can tell searching online points to mormon (which I thought was affectation of the US, but idk) book of moses. Anyways, if it is the mormon, it might point to that specific passage. All together, the reference I think comes down to enoch (the codename) being the name given to a biblical figure who in some religous texts told Moses stuff (but idk)

#

Idk about the 6:29 stuff though (may be a non-standard code)

trail cove
#

nah I'd say it's not that complicated and it simply means the Moses 6th chapter 29 verse, "Wherefore, they have foresworn themselves, and, by their oaths, they have brought upon themselves death; and a hell I have prepared for them, if they repent not;" just because it's supposed to have creepy points of interest

#

I wouldn't even be surprised if "Enoch" was chosen as a project name because it's a cool Ben 10 character

350.png
remote current
#

Interesting

plain idol
#

And the spread of mormons

plush stream
granite hawk
#

i think i found the last easter egg of livonia So I came to confirm.

#

i found four stone location to interest

#

I connected the four points with a line and saw that they intersected at the sinkhole in the factory.

#

maybe this is last easter egg of livonia?

#

For some reason I can't post a picture right now, but I think it would be easier to explain if I did.

flat halo
#

Where are the stones?

round badge
granite hawk
#

#screenshots_arma message

@round badge @flat halo sorry for late, i still can't upload a image properly now. so i upload on screenshot channel, anyway here the what i found

round badge
#

The rocks in second picture have a weird pattern.
You can read them as numbers, maybe some hidden message

granite hawk
#

And in the first part of the that chapter of this Bible, we have this. "Adam's seed keep a book of remembrance-His righteous posterity preach repentance-God reveals Himself to Enoch-Enoch preaches the gospel-The plan of salvation was revealed to Adam-He received baptism and the priesthood."

Considering the word for the map of Livonia is Enoch, I don't think it's a coincidence.

pliant temple
#

So.. we were having fun with occluders the other day. and It seems part of the reason for bad perfomance on livonia are missing occluders on some buildings.
We almost doubled FPS at Svarog just by adding occluders to that huge radar station (yes, it had none).

acoustic hearth
#

how exactly did you add these occluders?

pliant temple
pliant temple
#

I guess it can also be done in editor/scripts via placing a model which consists of only occluders and nothing else - inside the building. Far from ideal though =\

acoustic hearth
#

What you are doing is not okay.

acoustic hearth
#

rules apply to you as well. blobdoggoshruggoogly

#

also I dont really attend parties where I moderate them.

pliant temple
#

So the question was a bait. Moving on to silence.

acoustic hearth
#

should not come as a surprise

pliant temple
#

And don't miss a point - adding missing occluders (on dev part) can have a nice impact in cities and some other places. I just shared results so maybe we can see just that. Moving on.

grizzled thorn
warped thicket
dawn pawn
warped thicket
dawn pawn
warped thicket
blissful reef
zealous belfry
#

First again! 😂

rotund meteor
#

e

zenith siren
#

🤔

sly ivy
#

best vanilla terrain so far

#

muh respect to the author(s)

brave bough
#

Livonia map with markers

atomic gust
#

kinda reminds me of MBG Celle

ivory shell
#

Whenever I spawn an AI on Livonia with a pre set animation, the AI seems to be tilted to one side, like the ground that you see is different from the ground the AI sees

viral belfry
#

dissapointed that fences dont break like GM fences do

thin dome
#

GM was made by a third party

opaque robin
#

So?

stone pewter
#

So Bohemia had no idea it's possible :D

#

Thought what's the performance hit because of just the fence, I wonder

fallow comet
#

why not just fetch it from configs?

keen hamlet
#

Wouldn't you use the worldname command to do that?

mint rune
#

@keen hamlet worldName is for world class name

#

@viral belfry getText (configFile >> "CfgWorlds" >> worldName >> "description");

keen hamlet
#

So why not something like,
worldName - "Livonia"
worldClassname - "Enoch"

round badge
#

because that would break all the old mods that depend on worldName returning config name like it always did

#

worldDisplayName command is way more sensible (and already on my todo list, for what it's worth)

keen hamlet
#

What about all the ones that used worldname for the name of the map. Like what was used in the single player death screen?

frank basin
#

They were doing it wrong

round badge
#

single player death screen is also broken (bug report is already open on feedback tracker)

#

Actually........
Dev branch changelog from last week Fixed: The terrain class name was shown in the death screen instead of the display name

mint rune
#

that house is haunted

#

(only soldier's proxies are shown)

#

object is a3\structures_f_enoch\civilian\camps\camp_house_01_brown_f.p3d

glossy bay
fallow comet
#

Warning: 'a3\vegetation_f_enoch\clutter\c_fern.p3d': LODs not ordered by face count 0 (1): 198 faces < 1 (2) 198 faces

#

also a few bushes and several clutter disappear early at distance/with lower LODs

spring echo
#

interesting, LOD 0 have twice as much faces than next one

#

0 LOD has double sided faces & 1st one 1 sided

#

perhaps it's merged somehow

fallow comet
#

maybe that/similar is the reason for other warnings of that sort for other models too

lament fractal
#

I like the terrain a lot! 😃 I think should double check the buildings because a lot of them that I entered i saw the ground clipping through

cloud fjord
#

Hi, thank you for all you reports . We are checking them and if it is possible fixing them 😉 .
And there is still internal QA process running so with your help most of clipping etc. will be fixed before final release 😉 .

bitter needle
frank basin
#

place a ramp and jump over the bridge

buoyant turret
#

raise the bridges to fit the minigun boat pls I remember having this sentiment when trying out the Baranow map in IFA3

median portal
#

@narrow vortex can we expect destructibility similar to the map of GM, or are we just going to be stuck with indestructible churches/houses/bridges

candid shale
#

@bitter needle i though the first request would be to widen the river to accomodate large tonnage vessels 😉

bitter needle
#

haha I made that after people on the forum requested it being higher for the attack boats and I took it a step further.

#

although I do see the value in the MG boats fitting under it I don't think it's possible at this point. The bridges that are too low tend to be near a lot of other stuff so raising them would look weird

opaque robin
#

can any boat pass under?

#

i'm assuming the inflatable ones can?

trail crystal
#

it would be nice to get destructible bridges, GM has kinda spoiled me in that regard 😄

opaque robin
#

oh yeah. tanoa too tbh

#

(heh i wonder if vehicle lights are still buggy on tanoa bridges)

bitter needle
#

I think the reason the BI bridges aren't destructible is because the AI doesn't understand that being destroyed means you can't go over them and will thus just drive off the bridge.

#

Obviously, they could try to fix that but from the sounds of it most the programmers have moved onto other projects.

stone pewter
#

They were destructible in alpha, and yes - it was related to ai pathfinding. Checking if roads are really roads was quite a performance killer, iirc

viral belfry
#

pfft like it could get any worse performance wise honestly steam should remove the damn recomended specs from the arma 3 store page, they are clearly made up

stone pewter
#

Back in 2013 people were still not spoiled enough to think of 40 FPS as unplayable

#

Spoiled rich babies

viral belfry
#

then again i do get 60fps...... in single player........ on an empty map......... standing in a field

#

if i run in ultra because contrary to all known logic arma 3 runs better when you turn the graphics UP not down🤷

lavish rain
#

everyone said that while i have the opposite... the more i rise the settings the more lag spike increases :3

opaque robin
#

@bitter needle @stone pewter it's funny because AI driving and walking on bridges is still highly suspect 😛

#

but on Weferlingen, AI seems to have no significant issues driving over bridges...

bitter needle
#

I don't think that's true. I've run into issues with it there too

stone pewter
#

Yeah, missile safari is unplayable

opaque robin
#

oh, campaign. i was just trying in the editor

stone pewter
#

MP mission. Quite fun regardless

opaque robin
#

i see

#

still haven't played it in MP 😦

brazen agate
stone pewter
#

blair witch?! what year is it again?

#

(and where's my nocturne 2)

young void
#

Minigun speedboat is kinda broken

#

You cant aim with the minigun
Without using the vannila crosshairs

#

Without crosshairs u cant aim for shit

stone pewter
#

it's a minigun, you're supposed to aim with tracers 😄

tall portal
#

well of course there had to be a cornfield on Livonia ... someone was a fan of Signs?

#

and I guess you can recreate that opening scene from Interstellar too

#

or just create your own crop circles

opaque robin
patent siren
#

wasn't bridges pathfinding was an issue like....forever?

opaque robin
#

yes

#

which makes it all the more troubling that it's still not fixed

lethal anvil
#

I mean... no point in fixing it if it's not used Thonk

opaque robin
#

there are bridges on tanoa, livonia and weferlingen.... and a lot of CUP terrains...

median portal
#

Because nobody uses Bridges🤔 🤦

open basalt
#

Heh, given its arma2-ish-ness, one of the first things I tried was driving a vehicle across a bridge to see if it would do something stupid. It worked just fine (for driving over - I know you're talking about AI)

lethal anvil
#

Meant bridge destruction in base game a3 (ofc I know bridges are used in base game)

opaque robin
#

it's a problem with undestroyed bridges too

robust trellis
#

yeah you notice this a lot playing warlords @viral belfry , AI always peeking, never navigate structures.

gaunt epoch
#

To be fair if buildings are designed properly then AI use them properly. Many nodded buildings are not

#

Otherwise pretty much agree. AI seem more realistic in ARMA 2... But that may be a rose-tinted goggles thing

#

Maybe they could hire @round badge to design the AI for enfusion 🤔 😉

opaque robin
#

not really, even with vanilla structures you really need to force them to go inside

round badge
#

I have no idea about AI stuff

cunning fiber
pliant temple
#

Stairs in Land_PoliceStation_01_F do not work. Please take a look at their LOD, they are a pain to deal with.
https://imgur.com/a/JAyqCIK

pliant temple
#

Land_Church_04_small making these churches entarable would improve the terrain a lot.
They are used at high amount of places and look entarable, but unfortunately are 100% unentarable. Overall, the churches often look like the center of the cities/villages, having them like this kills the fun.

pliant temple
gaunt epoch
#

Only one type of the churches is unenterable. The rest are

pliant temple
#

@gaunt epoch That one type is technically 4 types of different textured ones, and is used on the terrain a lot.. and at some beautiful notable places. It really is noticable.

gaunt epoch
#

Ah, yes. My focus is more on using the building assets on other maps

pliant temple
#

Unfortunately too early for that too, since they can't be used in TB

gaunt epoch
#

Can be used as replacements and additions on other maps though... Server side mod to replace building classes with other classes...

#

But yes, on the terrain I'm working on I am placing CUP assets right now in layers that can be replaced in the future

pliant temple
#

replacement by mod will cost perfomance, which is critical in MP, and last time it took 1.5 year(afaik) to release assets from apex, average of 1 year for other ebos.

gaunt epoch
#

Not my code but I find it useful. Does not work all the time... does most of the time for things based on A2 buildings originally: sqf _a=[[["class_to_be_replaced1"],["class_to_be_replaced_with1"]],[["class_to_be_replaced2"],["class_to_be_replaced_with2"]],[["class_to_be_replaced3"],["class_to_be_replaced_with3"]]]; _b=[]; _c=[]; _i =0; {{if(_i % 2 == 0)then{_b append _x;}else{_c append _x;};_i=_i+1;}forEach _x select 0 select 0; }forEach _a; _d=0; {if((typeOf _x) in _b)then {_e=vectorDir _x; _f=vectorUp _x; _g=ASLtoATL getPosASL _x; _h=_b find (typeOf _x); _j=_c select _h; _x hideObjectGlobal true; _k=createVehicle [_j,_g,[],0,"CAN_COLLIDE"]; _k setVectorDirAndUp [_e,_f];_d=_d+1; }; }forEach nearestObjects [getArray(configFile >> "CfgWorlds" >> worldName >> "centerPosition"),["house"],20000];

#

Run as a server side addon

pliant temple
#

will never use that for dedi server, its ok for SP/COOP, but for dedi server it's a perfomance killer.

gaunt epoch
#

No... it runs once at server start

pliant temple
#

true, but it still affects perfomance, we're moving to offtopic, I can explain in pm

gaunt epoch
#

Thanks

cunning fiber
#

OT, but:
I see no big issue by running this on a server on startup.
Sure it takes some performance on startup to find the buildings, but in general it only hide some objects and spawn some additional objects for the Clients on connect.
@gaunt epoch is also working on a Basebuilding Mod, where hundreds of Elements are spawned Server Side on Startup.

gaunt epoch
#

🙃

#

I had not even thought of that @cunning fiber Sometimes thousands...

pliant temple
#

https://imgur.com/a/uKBDt9k
Terrain doesn't match satmap. I assume there was supposed to be a small road with a house.
Position: [12584,7528.85,0]

pliant temple
#

All damaged barracks have the same texture issue when left side is destroyed (sethitindex [0,1];)
"Land_i_Barracks_V1_dam_F" is on the screens.
https://imgur.com/a/6g0vODQ

#

Oh and thanks for writing config and texturing several Tanoa ruins for buildings👍 , now they are destructible and I don't have to run a mod with own config fix.

pliant temple
#

https://imgur.com/a/MaPMY3n
A lot of duped trees at this place (on RC Branch). Maybe it's not the only such place and is one of the reasons for low FPS at some places on Livonia
Coordinates:[6922.46,3799.31,0]

I hope this channel is watched by Livonia devs and it's worth reporting issues.

cloud fjord
#

Hi, thank you for reporting. Going to check it.

pliant temple
#

https://imgur.com/a/DBD8ey5
You will end up like this poor soul in 100 out of the 100 cases if you try to jump down from the roof of "Land_Radar_01_antenna_base_F" into the room.
A lot of ragequits going to happen. Hopefully will be looked at.

mint axle
#

why would you even jump from such a height though

gaunt epoch
#

I remember jumping from a second story of a building before Bohemia added ninja mode... Jumping from the second floor (first floor for for my British compatriots) of one of those small buildings under construction on Altis and dying. Was much appreciated when they changed that behaviour. That's a big drop and at Tisy in DayZ SA that will damage or kill you (or used to in 0.62 anyway)

pliant temple
#

It's a small height, it may look high at screens, but it really isnt and it's just slightly damages you if you jump down from such height. I can see it being used a lot.

pliant temple
#

why would you even jump from such a height though
I can see this logic used a lot by various devs. That's why you get stuck and can't walk on the rooftops of various objects in vanilla game, as well as have dozen of wierd animation bugs when you use holster weapon scripts(since there is no holster default button, why bother). Just because it is not a part of a campaign or tank gameplay doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

gaunt epoch
#

See Epoch Mod for working holster mechanism... never any weird animations... just the good one

pliant temple
#

(I mean it's a vanilla bug, not broken mod bugs. can easily reproduce the same in vanilla using simple holster gun command)

bitter needle
#

Yeah wearing any combat gear that jump is going to at least break your legs or crush your ankles.

pliant temple
#

no it's not >.< and that wasn't the point, point is you get stuck in a wall, floating, then the wall kills you.

tall portal
#

and in the video he's clearly not carrying any gear anyway?

#

Let's say, for the purposes of mission making you've placed a box or mattress or something to reduce the height from the ground. Does it only then become a bug that you get stuck in mid-air?

#

one thing has nothing to do with the other. If a player wants to risk injury by jumping from that height that's their problem, but getting stuck is a bug and should get fixed by BI.

pliant temple
#

I like how overall satmap is done on Livonia, but just one suggestion for it:
https://imgur.com/a/g4kkDnB

If it's still not late, some work on the forests with fallen leaves areas would be nice to see. (Currently satmap = dark green. Actual texture+clutter = light brown).
Could be some nicely looking woods not only at close ranges.

bitter needle
#

Nothing about those suggested you got stuck on anything. You didn't even say that in your picture post. And not having gear doesn't matter for height because I don't think that's taken into account

#

If you set the satmap to light brown it looks weird when the trees pop in. It's a tradeoff

pliant temple
#

@bitter needle
I think I showed it very clear on the screenshots. Very common syndrome of floating in the wall. I'm still struggling to understand your points about gear and what they have to do with getting stuck.
I report a bug, I show it well.
Regarding satmap, point taken but I disagree, it can be something at least a little different and lighter than dark-green. And no, it won't look weird, it will look better, but surely it's not just an easy 1 hour work to make the color match well (Some maps use brown colors and they don't look weird btw)

bitter needle
#

If it showed it clearly I would have been able to see it. No worries though. I see what you were going for now. My gear comment was directed at your it would only lightly wound you comment. Again no point discussing it further.

But it would look weird in the sat map. Well light brown would. So you either stick with the darkness now and it looks good from afar or you go with light brown and it looks good from medium range which is less common than long range.

pliant temple
#

Oh, I actually want it to look good from long range, since I don't believe monotonous dark-green looks any good. Now, I'm sure not a satmap guy, but I saw various colors used on terrains that fit well, and forest surely doesnt have to look like that. 2nd screen shows transition of colors and I think something close to this transition would look great at long range.

bitter needle
#

Yeah that might not be too bad actually. I do really like how their grass blends in perfectly

pliant temple
woven quarry
#

Wheat fields can be flattened by tanks but cannot be flattened by anything smaller, Hunter, HEMTT....even an AMV-7 Marshall.

#

Can this be addressed?

fallow comet
#

https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/223863-patching-out-annoying-ambient-background-noise-on-livonia/?tab=comments#comment-3363443

Bohemia Interactive Forums
Patching out annoying ambient background noise on Livonia

I know its not full release yet but Livonia is a bit of a mixed bag for me. Its a beautiful map no doubt, with some pretty glaring issues regarding performance, building size, satmap mismatches etc. One particularly annoying feature of this map is the constant loud ambient ba...

#

sound level too high

acoustic hearth
#

@woven quarry only tracked vehicles level grass

woven quarry
#

Not on Weferlingen. 😉

mint axle
#

Weferlingen has the wheat as objects, like bushes. On Livonia it is simply reskinned grass.

pliant temple
#

I wonder why they didn't make it as object, like they did with reeds

#

could have perfomance impact, but with proper distant lods would be good.

tall portal
#

it's odd really that only tracked vehicles level grass, I hadn't really thought about it or noticed it but why should that be the case in game? It's not true in real life.

#

and apart from immersion, indications like flattened vegetation can be a good indicator of enemy movements

mint axle
#

I believe it's because a single grass entity is rather large, so it would look weird if a wheeled vehicle, even with relatively wide wheels, would leave spots of flattened grass easily twice as wide

#

tanks or any other tracked vehicle are bigger and heavier so even if it does look a little bit weird, it'd be weirder not to flatten the grass

tall portal
#

hmm, that's a good point

mint axle
#

IIRC DayZ has smaller grass entities, but I haven't played with the cars yet, so I don't know if they flatten grass like expected, and if they don't, it might still be implemented later or not, nobody but the devs knows, I imagine

#

Anyway, seeing as DayZ is seemingly a test bed for a future arma's engine, the next arma likely also has smaller grass entities, and thus maybe have grass be flattened even by cars and other wheeled vehicles

tall portal
#

and even people, people leaving a narrow trail in long grass would be nice

pliant temple
#

wait what? You can flatten grass as infantry in Arma, what are you talking about

mint axle
#

I think he means when not prone

pliant temple
#

no, you talk about "grass entities" size like it's an issue, or even an engine issue, while it isn't. You can flatten grass as infantry. So I don't get what are you talking about.

#

they just didn't make it work for something other than tanks, obviously it can be fixed

mint axle
#

I think you missed the point

#

I'm not saying it's not possible

#

I'm saying what I think is why it's not enabled for wheeled vehicles

pliant temple
#

There is only one reason why, like it always is

#

Because they didn't make it

mint axle
#

🤔

pliant temple
#

Suggestion: Make an object wheat(like sugarcane and reeds) + keep clutter wheat(reduce it's density mb) and mix these two.
I doubt that is going to happen, but one can dream

mellow gulch
#

the livonia soundscape is amazing
decided walking through a forest at night on livonia with no nvgs and only flashlights was a good idea
a few minutes later, me and my ai buddy came running out terrified for our lives after hearing some strange sounds
10/10 on the soundscape, whoever made it.

hushed hinge
#

Hello! Our upcoming Livonia update should fix a lot of various bugs across the map, including some of your findings. Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming!

young void
#

why wasn't the underground bunker added from the building in DayZ SE

pliant temple
#

That would be too cool for arma:)

gaunt epoch
#

The hospital would have been cooler, but the bunker would have been cool and I would have hugged the design team if we'd go the opened houseblocks

#

That said. Happy with the buildings we did get, especially the L shaped barracks

sudden galleon
#

The fire station would be great.

gaunt epoch
#

CUP's is better than DayZ's IMO. Why I named specific ones 😉

robust trellis
#

it would be good if you would make all the inflatable tents unique objects instead of via hiddenSelections, makes it possible for map makers to utilise them

pliant temple
#

I think that is necessary. This or an option in terrain builder to somehow change hiddenselections.
All Laws of War tents are unusable for terrain makers, and now these.

robust trellis
#

thats not how wrp's are created, objects have to be unique p3d. hidden selections are a great tool, but useless for terrain authors.

#

so for each of the texturesets they require unique p3d unfortunately.

zinc cargo
#

Is there a reason why some of the structures have their furniture removed? Like the Arma 2 church which used to have benches similar to the ones found in the churches on Altis?

trail crystal
#

like other buildings in Arma 3, I am making a guess in that it is to make it more modifiable in what is actually inside the church

zinc cargo
#

Meanwhile the churches on Altis have benches inside of them

pliant temple
#

Buildings on Altis don't eat your FPS on breakfast.

zinc cargo
#

Yeah was about to say that, which I don't even understand how that came to be

#

Performance is absolute potato on that map

opaque robin
#

reyhard mentioned lesser use of geometric occluders

pliant temple
#

But altis buildings also are entarable

#

It makes no sense

zinc cargo
#

Well, if they are less optimized though, it kind of does.

opaque robin
#

yeah keln it didn't make too much sense to me either 🤷🏽

zinc cargo
#

I'm just surprised that they managed to take those old Arma 2 assets and made 'em run worse than the base game stuff

bitter needle
#

I think the base game ones are a lot simpler than the DayZ ports

#

well ports + potential improvements

gaunt epoch
#

They should have taken the 0.61 ones then

#

All those buildings were opened by then

bitter needle
#

maybe they did. Or maybe they didn't have that option

#

or maybe there was a greater reward or lesser cost for taking these

#

let's not all forget that this is still in Dev Branch

pliant temple
#

and RC branch

zinc cargo
#

I do hope that they can get some more performance out of that because the 12k view distance I'm using on Altis is absolutely tanking my performance on Livonia

pliant temple
#

I don't believe dayz buildings are more complicated than A3 altis ones. These buildings has so many unentarable rooms

zinc cargo
#

Well at first glance the DayZ ones seem to have a lil more detail inside of them and also some of the buildings literally have fallen over objects, rubble and other things inside of them

gaunt epoch
#

0.61 ones did not appear to cause those issues in ARMA as far as I am aware...

pliant temple
#

I just did a simple comparison to Weferlingen main city, where all buildings and every room in them are entarable, and it works smoother, even though the building dencity in the city is high.

#

May be it's the texture quality/size. Or building distant lods. Dunno

bitter needle
#

Are we sure it's the buildings and not the rest of the map around it?

mellow gulch
#

I would imagine the trees and grass would be impacting performance
after all, this is a large amount of trees and grass and stuff we are talking about

zinc cargo
#

Weferlingen has a lot of trees too

mellow gulch
#

yea but Weferlingen doesn't have like 10 different wheat fields.

pliant temple
#

Just looking in the direction of the city from 1 km away on livonia eats around 15-20 fps for me.
turning my head in the opposite side where it's weither forest or field, and fps is fine.
Yes fps is far from perfect in dense forests but it's managable

#

I must admit gm cities are less dense when it comes to small details, vegetation, height variety, so it may be this.

#

But going below 40 fps looking at Topolin city with 7700k, 16 gb RAM, 1080TI and arma installed on NVME SSD is not cool (with objects on ultra, Viewdistance - 1450)
~45 fps with objects on high.
~48 - standard.

bitter needle
#

what if you knock it out in the editor?

#

I'd test it myself but I get anywhere between 6-12 FPS on any map so not much room for testing

pliant temple
#

what if you knock it out in the editor?
what do you mean?

bitter needle
#

there's a System in the Editor under Environment called "Hide Terrain Objects" that removes every object within a specific radius. What happens if you take out the town?

gaunt epoch
#

Love that System... so utterly useful!

bitter needle
#

yeah it's awesome! Edit Terrain Object is too

pliant temple
#

~5 fps increase if I hide all houses.
~50 if I hide everything

bitter needle
#

what about everything but houses?

zinc cargo
#

Hide the farmland

#

Maybe those wheat fields really are the problem

pliant temple
#

35 increase or so

#

why wheat would be a problem, FPS in fields is great

bitter needle
#

what is a fairly simple clutter model and not an object so that probably helps

pliant temple
#

yeah I would even consider increasing it's draw distance more, but unfortunately that clutter setting is global afaik

bitter needle
#

there's a config value that isn't. You could modify that

#

clutterDist = 100;

pliant temple
#

oh, cool will do

bitter needle
#

clutterGrid = 1.3; changing that to 1.0 would make it more dense. I think you'd also haev to change noDetailDist and fullDetailDist too

pliant temple
#

yeah I messed with those, just forgot you can change distance for specific clutter

#

Tried hiding things by type 1 by 1. Devil is in details, it's all about props, walls, fences and vegetation in city.

bitter needle
#

that makes sense

pliant temple
#

Great design, shame drawback is such a perfomance hit, but I'd rather have it like this than looking dead and unnatural. I'll be ready with my optimization scripts anyway.

bitter needle
#

Yeah it's a delicate balance

pliant temple
#

@bitter needle

clutterDist = 100;```
It's a global value and ``class clutter`` don't have that parameter, so no, you can't modify wheat distance:(
bitter needle
#

oh I meant all clutter

#

that's possible

pliant temple
#

that would tank fps in other areas.. not an option. Only wheat fields have room for this, fps is high there.

bitter needle
#

ah didn't realize you were going for only the wheat

opaque robin
#

@bitter needle

Keln Last Thursday at 05:13
@Rad 
Yes, those buildings eat big chunk of your fps.
They are like Arma 2 style fps killers. Once you look in the direction of the city, it's about 20-25 fps loss for me.
I even have written a script to adjust view  distance for livonia cities.

SK Last Thursday at 08:25
That sounds like they're missing geometric occluders, which would be super weird

reyhard Last Thursday at 10:25
@SK geometric occluders are bit more limited due to interiors. They are there but cannot be used in very efficient way since you still want to see soldiers inside
there were couple tickets already where some artists went a little bit too much with optimization and you couldn't see from outside characters in exterior garages for instance

SK Last Thursday at 13:38
interesting... then how is it possible on Altis/Stratis/Malden/Tanoa?
(i haven't really seen the new buildings)

reyhard Last Thursday at 13:57
Tanoa has no interiors in big cities and Kavala is still quite heavy on most PCs``` in [#contact_discussion](/guild/105462288051380224/channel/585095800334581771/)
sullen arrow
#

I know it's pretty far in development

#

But what the chances of getting the new bunker to be destructible? It's basically the 4th gen bunker from BI and still no destructibility. 😦

viral belfry
#

but the question here is: what view & object distance are used on livonia ?

median portal
#

more destructible stuff would generally be nice

#

bridges, churches etc

pliant temple
#

bridges. Yes. Please, god, please, bridges! It's such a game changer to be honest

#

but the question here is: what view & object distance are used on livonia ?
@viral belfry I have answered that question when I was describing my specs. 1450

bitter needle
#

I agree but I think they're making them non-destructible because the AI doesn't know when they're destroyed and will drive right off of it.

pliant temple
#

that doesn't make any sense, they can make armor high enough so only if you as a mission/mod maker need that - you destroy them. But it's a niche feature, I agree there are other higher priorities

viral belfry
#

ah i see @pliant temple
ok so bad FPS with 1450 view distance is not normal

sullen arrow
#

They could always design the destruction LOD in such a way that vehicles can still cross, it just is much harder.

viral belfry
#

btw, will livonia include ALL buildings from DayZ SA?

#

or did they left out some buildings ?

pliant temple
bitter needle
#

They could always design the destruction LOD in such a way that vehicles can still cross, it just is much harder.
But then the bridge isn't really destroyed and the AI don't really do "harder" or easier. I feel like it's a pretty binary system.

pliant temple
sullen arrow
#

@bitter needle I'm sure with the new TankX simulations you could make the thing bumpy enough only tanks could make it vs wheeled vehicles.

bitter needle
#

I don't think that would work. And again, the bridge wouldn't actually be destroyed in that case. And you'd probably want it to be the other way around. Last thing you want to do is drive a 60 ton tank across a crumbling bridge

pliant temple
#

While the Livonia River looks beautiful due to new water config, it would be a big improvement to see some custom texture for River banks
Currently, the amount of textures used on livonia is underwhelming. Same ground texture is used for river, offroads and mud all over the map.

bitter needle
#

there's a limit of 5 or 6 textures (depending) per tile. Reusing the same ones help keep that limit in check while allowing more variation in others. Most places will have grass, dirt, and at least one of the two forest textures. That's 3 or 4 textures out of 5 or 6 used up right off the bat. That leaves one or two more for things like wheat, asphalt, concrete, etc. There might be some places they could switch it up in but it would probably be fairly rare.

pliant temple
#

I know about that limitation. And it doesn't seem to be the case in a lot of areas, unless I miss something. Anyway, just a suggestion on an eye-catchy thing.

viral belfry
#

This military area in Livonia. It looks quite empty. Most likely not ready yet? going to be some kind of shooting range?

mellow gulch
#

it is a shooting range

#

probs gonna be used in some way for a showcase or the campaign

carmine vapor
#

just to check - is the Nadbor region meant to be exclusively a cordoned-off military area or is it a mixture of actively lived-in civilian towns that just happen to occasionally host military exercises?

orchid basalt
#

@carmine vapor I think it's a mix, but not like that

#

It seems like Nadbor itself is populated, as well as the towns up to the north

#

But the towns in the mid-to-south part of the map are abandoned, and the area is cordoned off

#

So you can only reach Nadbor as a civilian by a couple of predesignated highways

carmine vapor
#

Ground clipping issue in hut.
[2835.66, 5308.76]

pliant temple
#

Issues with: barn_04_ruins_f.p3d

  1. Has 6 pretty dramatic visual LOD mismatches with geom LOD. That causes you to fall through places where you're not supposed to:
    https://imgur.com/a/kCmbHa7
  2. Doesn't have type. (typeof returns "")
bitter needle
#

Maybe if you weren't blindfolded you wouldn't walk off so many ledges 😄

pliant temple
#

yeah:), also explains why I don't see type of the building and sick of door opening interaction with livonia buildings 😬

#

I wish 2035 year had vertical Ferrari-like doors in buildings

pliant temple
#

Some occasional "popping" issues with environmental soundshaders begin to happen in left headphone earpiece for me. Usually after several minutes of playing, at first everything is fine. (dev branch).

#

They are also common if I move fast with splendid camera, usually when the soundshader changes (very annoying)

mellow gulch
#

apparently contact is set in 2039, atleast according to a newspaper asset in dev branch

pliant temple
pliant temple
#

speedboat minigun
right, because that terrain clearly is about warfare boats.

mint axle
#

Weferlingen didn't have an airfield IRL at the time though, did it?

opaque robin
#

@viral belfry weferlingen does have an airstrip - the highway.
Otherwise no one makes an airstrip right on the border.

pliant temple
#

checked devbranch, thanks for fixing some of the reported issues guys💯

median portal
#

the ED-1D pelter easily tips over when firing the shotgun, maybe its intended, but seems kinda offputting

#

probably intentional, since you can unflip it

mint axle
#

use pellets, they have less recoil

#

just hit your firemode key to switch between slugs and pellets

median portal
#

when turning the ed-1D sideways using a or d, and then releasing it, it goes a bit forward

#

its battery drains extremely quickly

#

i like that it has a damage model, instead of just being destroyed after one hit

#

i like how you can murder people with the biopsy probe

#

does anybody know what the ids that it gives are useful for outside the campüaign? or are they randomly generated numbers?

mint axle
#

random I reckon

median portal
#

it sucks that the churches are still invincible

#

i really hope they will be destructible

viral belfry
#

God prevails

median portal
#

but i need to commit those warcrimes

viral belfry
#

Hehe

gaunt epoch
#

No ruins models for anything religious besides the small chapels and Church_03 (the big orthodox one) so unlikely

viral belfry
#

Ooooh I was about to say something but I’m not going to say that hehe

#

I’ll dm you grahame

median portal
#

Just hoping they will make them, i hate having undestructible stuff, thats why i love the GM map so much, you can low everything up, also dislike not being able to blow the predestroyed buildings up, the ones that only miss a little bit of roof for example, i think everything thats possible to be destroyed should be able to be destroyed

normal talon
#

I heard there will be a shotgun?

opaque robin
#

yes

royal sequoia
#

so it says contact is in my library

#

but its not installed and id like to check out livonia

static ledge
#

you have to switch to dev branch in BETAS tab in steam

pliant temple
#

Not really a big issue, but would be nice to get some review of the wilderness area nearby Polana, quite a lot of noticable sharp edges. Doesn't fit the overall quality of other livonia areas.
Positions: [3228.58,1403.5,0];[2949.86,1825.29,0]
https://imgur.com/a/eCKx9Ul

frank basin
#

that's to do with terrain grid sizes. There are some limits on what grid size you can use with particular size terrains and texture resolutions IIRC

pliant temple
#

I doubt it.

#

Since other areas don't have this issue, even on altis can't remember such.

frank basin
#

cell sizes are an important factor when creating the terrain in terms of texture size and object density

#

you only see small cell sizes on small terrains

#

Proving Ground in Arma 2's PMC DLC was a particular example that used small cell size to get relatively smooth terrain in areas where there was a large vertical displacement

#

the larger the cell size, the sharper the edges get when you make significant slopes

pliant temple
#

I understand. But you shall look at it yourself. This place doesn't compare to others on livonia, so I doubt it's about cell size. Not to mention that livonia is smaller than tanoa and altis.
I didn't ask to improve the whole terrain, just take a look at this particular area.

bitter needle
#

not sure what cell size Livonia uses but from the looks of those screenshots I do think they could be a little smoother

pliant temple
#

Can "Land_Radar_01_antenna_base_F" building in Swarog get fixed?

#

It got quite some issues with geom lod.
Jumping inside it is fatal - stuck death. High chances to get stuck when running -> stuck death.

#

I know arma is like the very first Doom - jumping is not supported by the base game, but it's a lod issue, not an engine one.

meager cairn
opaque robin
#

erm what is that?

meager cairn
#

a levitating bridge

round badge
#

a swimming bridge

woven quarry
#

Cool update...nice to see some ambient crows on Livonia...without a mod.🙂

frank basin
#

Are they the correct kind of crow for the Baltic region?

woven quarry
#

lol, are you serious^^

round badge
#

yes. Arma is a realistic simulation. So if they are not correct that's a bug

frank basin
mellow gulch
#

aw no deer in this update?

woven quarry
#

then they are the carrion variety.

frank basin
#

immersion ruined

woven quarry
#

😄

frank basin
#

@rustic ivy do the crows support hiddenSelections?

woven quarry
#

do the butterflies support them too?

rustic ivy
#

🔨

woven quarry
#

@frank basin if the crows break your immersion, don't wade into the "river" otherwise the coastal water fish will get you...

frank basin
#

could maybe retexture the barracuda as a pike...

sleek yoke
#

retexture snakes as frogs

frank basin
#

rabbits might work better

#

they both hop around

woven quarry
#

this is Arma...not Harry Potter. 😜

sleek yoke
#

nah rabbit as frog, impossible. It has fur.

rustic ivy
#

@frank basin I'll look at work...if I won't forget

deep ore
#

He'll forget.

#

😛

frank basin
#

I'll forgive him. He's a busy chap

woven quarry
#

I'm fairly certain all ambient life don't support hiddenSelections.

deep ore
#

Funny thing is i think we looked into this before, when we wanted to do white rabbits for winter cherno. I don't remember if we found out tho.

woven quarry
#

yes, i looked into retexturing the crows for the various Ambient Birds mods i've done in the past, but found it wasn't possible.

#

there presence on Livonia is enough for me regardless of whether they look native or not, maybe the crows call could be looked into, I'm not sure how there calls change based on their region.....do all crows sound the same?

frank basin
#

They sound more or less the same

rustic ivy
#

It works

pliant temple
#

pls no ambient rabbits, they are little client-side motherfckers, ruin multiplayer games.

woven quarry
#

they are already in. ^^

pliant temple
#

f*ck... ok will have to mod and remove them.

opal vortex
#

To quote captain america:
language...

median portal
#

How exactly do they ruin multiplayer games? @pliant temple they might be a little annoying at times, but i think of no way they can ruin multiplayer games

pliant temple
#

They do. Depending on the mod and mission:

  1. They appear in thermal vision, and since they are local, different players experience different stuff.
  2. MP sandbox mods that use animals as a part of built-in systems are basicly ruined. One player can have 5 rabbits around him and second next to him will see none.
    Fixable via addon config tweaking.. But they shall be disabled by default imo, since bi didnt manage to make them global.
opaque robin
#

Luckily we play custom made missions and mostly don't use thermals 😄

mellow gulch
#

dont worry
the only reason one person sees rabbits and the other doesnt is cause of aliens man

opaque robin
#

and duck season

dire terrace
#

I still fail to see how this ruins any experience lol. They don't give an advantage, and so what you see them on thermals?

#

As long as I can see you on my thermals, then we have no problem.

untold tree
#

If you see a thermal of a rabbit and shoot at it, that's your own fault

#

Realism at its best, tbh

#

I wish there were more animals

#

(though I'd want them to be server side instead of clientside

dire terrace
#

We have snakes, rabbits, dogs, seagulls, fish. Haven't seen dogs in anything official, only community based stuff. Would be interesting for BI to use dogs.

brave bough
#

@untold tree there are dogs in game, you just need to use the module

pliant temple
#

No thanks we don't need client side animals in MP games

#

If you need them you can spawn them on your server, and they will even be global.

#

That's what I do

#

Hence why I am against client-side stuff, it's nasty. It's ok for birds, insects and fish to be client-side since they are only for immersion and don't affect gameplay (fish may, but barely if ever).

royal sun
#

I've never ran into an issue where me seeing a rabbit, and other people not, ever caused an issue

pliant temple
#

so because you didn't - no1 have? amazing logic

mint axle
#

works the same in reverse you know

#

just because you have an issue with clientside rabbits doesn't mean everyone does

pliant temple
#

You're trying to tell me I'm unique? You can google that issue

#

won't be hard to find it mentioned a lot, there is even mod that removes them on several maps.

inner zenith
#

One type of grass texture all over the island! The color of the grass is the same synthetic as on Tanoa Island. dislike. grass on altis is more diverse and pleasant. 😕

nova dove
#

It seems to only be you that’s complaining about it here though, everyone else is indifferent or supportive

#

It’s a nice little bit of immersion

pliant temple
#

They could have used more ground textures that is for sure. There is a limitation in 5 texture count per square but what I see is only like 5 textures for the whole map....
(ok maybe not 5 but still, altis had more variety. Sand, mud, desert1, desert2, pinewoods, dirt, grass.) Just 1 more would feel better but I doubt at this stage anything in this area will change.

#

at least roads got some decals, unlike altis.

hushed hinge
#

Hello! Next update is here and with it more fixes to Livonia, thank you again for all the feedback! Regarding the ground textures - even though we are strictly limited by the amount we can use per map square, there are currently 9 different surfaces on Livonia with one extra added this week.

pliant temple
# 
Two clipping buildings
position:`` [3003.18,6643,0]``

Checked, still a thing

bitter needle
#

@hushed hinge Which ground texture is that?

inner zenith
#

I see many railroads across the island, but not a single train car or a locomotive. devs pls add a couple of train cars like on Chernorus island. thx a lot!

bitter needle
#

That would be nice as a mission placed object. Can port the flatbed, locomotive, and boxcar from A2 and that would be enough. Could have blow up the train missions

pliant temple
#

@bitter needle
I believe new texture has not been added yet, he meant it'll be live later this week.

bitter needle
#

Yeah that could be it. Still curious to know which texture it is though. My map is currently using textures from Livonia so I just want to know if there is a new one I can add.

brave bough
#

The platforms are too close to the train tracks

hushed hinge
#

Hello! I'm not sure whether the mentioned ground texture is in the current dev-branch version already, but you will definitely come across it while playing the Contact campaign.

#

@inner zenith I believe that @weak python is currently working on a train mod for Livonia's railways. You can find a screenshot or two on our official forums (Livonia Feedback).

pliant temple
#

Any texture that brings more variety to non-forest areas would be good. Most annoying is that same ground texture is used for: forest roads, offroads, river, dirt & open ground areas. I think Tanoa had the same problem, but Altis didn't.

pliant temple
#

I take my words back, this is the most noticable thing regarding textures+satmap:
https://imgur.com/a/9Ui4Mm4

Altis also had both dry grass areas and greenery. And it had 2 grass textures exactly for that: green one and dry grass one.

#

Clutter coloration is good, but it cannot cover that much of a color difference

glossy bay
#

@bitter needle not sure if it's the new surface they were referring to last Thursday, but they added a cobblestone texture. The path to it is a3\map_enoch\data\gdt_encobblestone_co.paa. It seems to match the cobblestone models they already had on the map. One of the areas using the texture is at 7350, 2650.

bitter needle
#

Oh nice! Thank you for the heads up!

pliant temple
#

so this is it. ok. good but doesn't even slightly address any of the issues spoken

deep ore
#

Probably because none of the surface related things you have described are issues just opinions on things you don't like. None of them stop you from playing the game, they just look a bit odd and out of place sometimes. It is absolutely fine if you don't like them, and sharing that opinion is cool too. But to label them issues that are are causing problems is more than a bit of a mischaracterisation. A large part of game development is about compromise and management of resources. A lot of the things that look like strange decisions or lazy to us, are a result of having to make concessions. It's almost never about how easy it is or isn't to fix something but more about if their is budget for it, whether that is time, manpower or sometimes actual money.

#

😃

pliant temple
#

yeah I know BI management is moneygrab, no offense towards devs.

stone pewter
#

-game updated regularly with new content, most of it free, for over 6 years
-moneygrab

#

I'm not happy with recent decisions myself, but come on

pliant temple
#

I do believe they are.

Regarding details, terrain, I may have appeared overreacting, but the only point was that such stuff is seen and noticed by players nowadays. I don't expect it to be changed (and Livonia is my favourite A3 terrain, subjectively I like it more than cherno+ too). But since it's not the last game devs make I do believe(or hope) mentioning such issues/stuff is only for the greater good.

carmine vapor
#

ngl I still want more furniture in Livonia

#

I can't play barbie's dreamhouse dress-up without more beds and sinks

sleek yoke
#

do you also want one complete side of the house to fold away, so you can look into it from outside ?

carmine vapor
#

not at all

#

I'd much prefer a playmobil interface where I can just take the roof off

#

gotta get them kitchen's looking perfect

gaunt epoch
#

I'd like a side of the house to fold away... For my D-30 to fire out of 😃

viral belfry
#

is the performance still garbage ?

opaque robin
#

Broad question

patent siren
#

@@carmine vapor Aliens abducted the furniture and they wont return it to Livonia until they finish experimenting on it. So dont get your hopes high.

lyric steeple
#

The bridge is too low for SPEEDBOAT MINIGUN to pass under on the river.

pliant temple
#

SPEEDBOAT MINIGUN is not supposed to drive small rivers

opaque robin
#

Why not?

#

It's not a deep keel ship

#

it's a coastal/river vessel

#

Anyway, yeah, they know the bridges are too low

#

I don't think they care/want to do anything about it though

pliant temple
#

even in militarized countries you won't see such boats on rivers

#

waste of money and resources

#

it's a total nonsense logistics-wise..

#

Continental rivers != seas. They have levees, rapids, seasonal shallow waters.
You guys sound like you have never been to such places.

grand tusk
#

Africa has patrol boats on large rivers, but constant wars sort've call for it. Only example I got.

pliant temple
#

yep + those rivers are large. Livonia has a very small river. Water depth on such rivers vary a lot by season. In spring you may not be able to cross underneath the bridge even on a small boat. Late summer, on the other hand, waters may be so shallow you'll have a hard time to cross some places

#

there is nothing wrong with bridges. leave them alone

sullen arrow
#

Any chance we can deepen the entry point from the river to the lake with the cabin on the island?

#

You can get a boat through it, but its it a bit tricky.

#

Also I agree having the bridges a bit taller would be nice, I mean the river is a pretty big feature of the map.

#

But I understand if it's more of a pain

pliant temple
#

You can make a mod and tweak water depth(height) via config.

carmine vapor
#

bridges too small?

#

unacceptable

#

I should be able to fit the USS Nimitz under them

grand tusk
#

I should be able to fit Liru's double-decker carrier under them

opaque robin
#

Continental rivers != seas. They have levees, rapids, seasonal shallow waters.
How is that relevant when this particular map doesn't have any of those?

gaunt epoch
#

Logs on to check the Chernarus Fishing Boat from CUP

opaque robin
#

Also continental rivers can be pretty decently wide

#

and deep

#

it's also not exactly continental, it's right next to the baltic sea

#

and baltic rivers see a fair bit of boat traffic

grand tusk
#

Why not just Zodiac your way up the river sicne the speedboat is a no-go?

gaunt epoch
#

I like the fishing boat...

pliant temple
#

Also continental rivers can be pretty decently wide
No1 said they cant. But what you can see on Livonia - is a very small river...

opaque robin
#

welll.... the river not being deep enough for the boat is not the problem

#

bridge being too low is

pliant temple
#

it is NOT too low

opaque robin
#

if the boat can't cross then it is 😉

pliant temple
#

.... no comment

still ember
#

@viral belfry can confirm that Livonia performance still is garbage compared to all other maps including Tanoa.

tribal heron
#

Where in the world does this come from?

#

Its stable, has the same framerates as most BI terrains and of the same quality....

pliant temple
#

Tbh, no and no.
It is higher quality than other BI terrains. Perfomance in busy areas (dense forests and big cities) suffers.

viral belfry
#

thanks @still ember

median portal
#

Tanoa still best map

still ember
#

@tribal heron In town areas I get 30 fps while in forests its in between 40 and 60. For comparison, in Tanoa's dense jungle, with AI, I get 80-90fps while in dense cities with surrounding forests I get 60-70. I went around the whole Livonia and performance has been pretty bad everywhere. I have an I7 4790K, 16gb of ram and an RTX2060. Settings changes made no meaningful FPS difference (5-10 fps difference between low and ultra). I will definitely not be playing on Livonia except for the Contact campaign unless they manage to somehow drastically improve performance on it. I suspect that the new objects ported from DayZ haven't really been optimized for Arma.

viral belfry
#

its funny how BI gets rekt by their own engine. Instead to keep the arma 3 core team to improve the engine, they keep the core team away and the few team members working on arma 3 just throw something into the game which isnt optimized.

Same with the promised open world mission they announced. ANY open world mission for arma 3, was more or less a performance eater, no matter if simple or heavy scripted, no matter if SP, COOP or MP. Either they threw DayZ stuff into arma 3 before even checking one by one how they will perform, or (what i guess) is simple that the engine cant handle them good, just like those open world mission, or large scale battle, or heavy populated cities like kavala or georgetown, or or or...

still ember
#

I noticed that interior LODs of the buildings are pretty f'd up. If you have a crosshair on, and you have the adaptive crosshair, you will notice that it always stays on top of your barrel instead of the screen center because for some reason the game thinks that there's a solid object there even tho it's just the building's interior.

median portal
#

I think lots of people want a woodland map, so there is massive opportunity here, just not the way livonia has been made

#

Had they made completely new assets, buildings destructible, a river thats useful for boat combat, would be great

#

For example a germany map, take middle germany, you have some hills, modern big cities, but also lots of smaller cities that are older

#

Would offer a great diverse map, rivers, big and small, lakes, big forests

viral belfry
#

arent the buildings destructible on livonia ?

median portal
#

Some are, but churches arent for example

carmine vapor
#

yeah, they are - I just kind of wish Livonia had been a bit more urban

median portal
#

All the buildings that have any damage arent destructible

carmine vapor
#

if you're going to port buildings from DayZ, at least get some of the offices and apartments in

viral belfry
median portal
#

that would be great

#

some big buildings

#

gm had those big buildings

viral belfry
median portal
#

i feel like the GM map is one of the best arma 3 maps todate

opaque robin
#

they're also not using many geometric occluders (apparently) so yeah that's going to hamper performance in towns

pliant temple
#

i feel like the GM map is one of the best arma 3 maps todate
I feel opposite, one of the worst and most boring maps

#

I have no idea how are they planning to handle their warlords on livonia though.
No, not the whole map has bad perfomance, but any place with large town or dense forest - and you are screwed

opaque robin
#

Werferlingen is really nice though

#

It's pretty faithful to the area and has a lot of microterrain, nice towns, etc.

pliant temple
#

no its not, and this topic is not about it

opaque robin
#

spicy

pliant temple
#

I hate plain deserted terrains, you guys just cannot see actual beauty of livonia dont you? It has actual woods that look like real forests, not like a bunch of woodsticks set up here and there

opaque robin
#

Werferlingen isn't plain and deserted though?

pliant temple
#

yes it is

opaque robin
#

And yeah, Livonia is quite nice

#

Nah i don't think you've spent enough time with werferlingen then 😄

pliant temple
#

Oh I did..

opaque robin
#

It's got a lot of fields, because that's what west/central europe looks like. but it's certainly not without variation.

pliant temple
#

Spent enough time to notice that ponds don't work no matter how you set them up. Died to their river, walked on foot through their river.
Spent enough to notice the lack of details in vegetation and nature overall. Bad textures here and there e.t.c. You cant compare it to livonia. It's a dead terrain for dead machines aka tanks

carmine vapor
#

ngl, I like the interiors in Weferlingen for everything but that hideous linoleum tiling texture thrown throughout them

#

the buildings do often feel less like an actual western european home and more like a really rough approximation

#

should've kept with mostly wood flooring and carpeting

#

beyond that though, weferlingen had a nice layout in terms of towns and villages

#

livonia is much the same, tho the interiors of all the buildings in livonia are much more fitting

pliant temple
#

but yeah it would be nice gamechanging to see something done about perfomance. I am not even sure if geometric occluders are to blame. I'd pay attention to distant lods on some small but numerous props and such.

median portal
#

i mean the GM forests are pretty accurate

#

i dont know the word for it, but in germany we used to just plant one type of tree, but we stopped doing it when we realized its bad for nature

#

and altian forests arent diverse either

opaque robin
#

monoculture

pliant temple
#

that doesn't change the fact that artificiel "forests" look ugly

median portal
#

altian forests look basically the same

#

and the gm map was based on a realistic perception of the area

pliant temple
#

you mean pine woods? Pine woods are not dense in real life too

median portal
#

so your argument here is that its fine when its on altis but not fine when its on weferlingen?

pliant temple
#

i don't know why you brought realism. I said the GM terrain looks dead and feels dead compared to others. It may be the case in real life too.

#

after all, I can imagine that being the case if most of plants and trees are human work.

median portal
#

for a long time, thats what was being done, one type of tree, planted in straight lines

#

nowadays forests look much more exciting

#

downed trees, different trees, dense trees and shrubbery

viral belfry
#

its offtopic, but wether the GM weferlingen forests looks ugly or not: here in germany such forests exists

median portal
#

yeah exactly

pliant temple
#

you brought it on here comparing apples to oranges. I am glad new dlc is not set in germany

median portal
#

why tho

viral belfry
#

but thats offtopic guys

median portal
#

why are you glad that its not set in germany? germany has lots of interesting terrain

#

looking out of my window rn, i see atleast 6 different types of trees, and im not even in view of a forest

sleek yoke
#

its not set in germany but ~ 500km east of it... not much of a difference.

median portal
#

the livonian forests could really use some more fallen trees

#

like big fallen trees

#

holy hell the performance is awful in livonia

#

in a forest, placed down 3 spetzsnatz rifle squads and some ifrits

#

and im sitting at 30 fps

#

thats in singleplayer

#

in multiplayer thats gonna be borderline unplayable

tall portal
#

@pliant temple Out of interest, where are you from (country)?

#

Your comment about Pine woods not being dense in real life suggests to me that you've never seen plantation forests used for timber which in most places in Western Europe are the only kind of pine forest still standing - the natural pines having long ago been felled for timber or to clear land for agricultural use.

#

those plantation forests are dead, lifeless places (quite literally, almost nothing can live in them because it's so dark)

median portal
#

and because there is only one kind of tree, they are basically void of animals, because they find no food

tall portal
#

There are patches of woodland or remnants of original, natural forest left but not as much as you might find in say Scandinavia, North America etc

ebon jasper
#

I use same trees and houses one on my map and fps is 80(this map dont have big towns), i get 30fps in livonia big towns.

tall portal
#

Germany is still tearing down forests for various reasons including to surface mine coal (ironically because they decided to end their use of clean nuclear energy)

ebon jasper
#

Im sure at they will optimize map, removing objects.

median portal
#

protestors just had a success on stopping rwe from tearing down a big part of forest

#

a journalist actually died during the protest

#

he fell down a tree

tall portal
#

@ebon jasper unlikely at this stage. BI almost never modify maps after release because that can affect scenarios built on the original version of the map

median portal
#

i mean while still in devbranch they have the chance

tall portal
#

with 2 weeks until release - the map you see in dev branch is what we'll get at release - there's simply not enough time now to do proper testing, the map already has enough issues with clipping etc to be fixed before then

#

but yes, it's not impossible

median portal
#

but with that performance there will be few people playing on it, even less considering you need to own contact

ebon jasper
#

With little config changes maybe get 10-20 fps more

tall portal
#

That's what people said about Tanoa and systems became more powerful and people are playing on Tanoa. I agree though that performance should be better than the numbers some people are reporting

median portal
#

i mean i dont have the best processor, but i usually have around 50 fps in multiplayer on all maps

#

swinging from 30-50 depending on situation

#

but its always playable

#

and i feel that lots of players dont have good pcs

tall portal
#

then again, while people might want a new map for MP, it's clear the DLC itself has a SP focus and maybe BI simply think that aesthetics are more important for the SP experience than performance for MP.

median portal
#

i mean even in singleplayers fps isnt good

#

then imagine tons of assets and scripts running

tall portal
#

there it doesn't need to be and it's always been widely accepted that 30fps is the playable minimum for Arma

median portal
#

because thats gonna be that way in the campaign

#

yeah its playable

#

but its still not fun to play singleplayer with 20 fps

tall portal
#

for the campaign it's already been hinted that there won't be much combat, it's more similar to LoW - an interactive experience

median portal
#

low fps are also annoying in that part

tall portal
#

20fps would be rough visually and definitely not ideal, but it still is unlikely to have a serious gameplay impact

median portal
#

and then imagine somebody playing on their shitty laptop

#

that can usually run arma at 30

tall portal
#

Arma has never really been playable on a laptop IMHO

median portal
#

it has

#

i used to play on my shitty laptop before building my pc

tall portal
#

I think that's subjective - it depends on what you consider playable in terms of visual settings 😃

median portal
#

lots of people here play on laptops i believe

#

point is, people with lower spec pcs are going to have a bad time

tall portal
#

agreed

#

If you're used to playing with everything on ultra at resolutions above 1080 - it's very hard to go back to lower settings 😦

median portal
#

yeah

#

but im hoping to upgrade my cpu soon, waiting a bit for the new ryzen processors to leave their first gen flaws behind

tall portal
#

I'm also waiting for some proper benchmarks for Arma on Ryzen 3 (3700/3900). I'm using an old 4790K which does well with Arma because of the high single core clock but I'm extremely tempted to upgrade to the 3900X if the performance in Arma can at least match what I get now.

median portal
#

also waiting for that, currently have a 1600x

#

but from the benchmarks that were coming, ryzen is matching up to top intel processors for cheaper

ebon jasper
#

4790 is not old, i use 8 years old 2500k 😄

pliant temple
#

@tall portal Russia. I feel sad you guys literally killed your nature.

round badge
#

it's always been widely accepted that 30fps is the playable minimum for Arma

I played on 15fps average for years. Was playable for me

tall portal
#

The current generic benchmarks are indeed extremely good and I use this machine for work too, so I'll see a massive improvement in pretty much every other task from the 3900X but even though I don't get the time to play as much as I want, Arma still matters a lot to me so I want to know that it won't be a huge step backwards in that case. Most benchmarks are testing multi-core performance, Arma is resolutely tied to single-core performance which is why I want to hear some feedback on that CPU from some Arma users

#

@pliant temple I'm sad too

pliant temple
#

@ebon jasper
Interesting. I believe you didn't use that much amount of small props in towns and maybe forests

#

they could make a little bit more open spaces in dense forests. And maybe reduce amount of props in cities but that is not ideal

median portal
#

i mean in livonia those arent cities

tall portal
#

@ebon jasper I put this system together over four years ago, which feels like a long time because a lot has happened since then

median portal
#

there are about 2 medium to small towns

#

and the rest are villages

tall portal
#

Even the 'cities' in official Arma maps aren't much bigger than small towns in the real world

pliant temple
#

doesn't matter. Polana for example. Small village in the middle of dense forests.
Due to that fps is bad there.I can fix that actually via not ideal workarounds but I see a lot of troubles for others

tall portal
#

and in some cases smaller than villages

pliant temple
#

Georgetown is big yet has better fps than some livonian cities/towns. Must be noted it is located on the coast which helps

median portal
#

but there is jungle near it

#

tanoa generally has good performance

tall portal
#

heh, this conversation is amusing because when Apex launched everyone complained loudly and endlessly about how many the FPS was in Georgetown and Tanoa generally

#

Lots of people maintained that Georgetown was unplayable

pliant temple
#

yeah ppl had worse pcs back than

tall portal
#

Which is really the point I was making earlier, in another couple of years no-one will be complaining about the performance with Livonia

pliant temple
#

I had an i3 and 6gb ram.
Now got i7 7700k nvme ssd, 16gb ram, 1080ti
Getting 40-45 fps in reported places on livonia

tall portal
#

Devs will always design games to work with the highest end hardware, that's true of every game, only with DLCs we're now seeing a similar trend - they are designed to the limits of the best hardware available during the development.

pliant temple
#

in singleplayer.
Without some optimization workarounds I had like 30-35 fps in town in multiplayer.

tall portal
#

Largely because no self-respecting game developer is using anything but the best gaming rig

median portal
#

thats a big problem tho, because they compromise the ability of large parts of their community to play

#

or rather to play with good fps

pliant temple
#

well I got that rig and I don't see good perfomance by default on livonia

#

ofc for campaign it will be scripted fog with 200 meters viewdistance so I believe it'll be ok.

median portal
#

thats

#

wow

tall portal
#

well not to dismiss your nice specs, but 7700K is already 2.5 years old

#

it's fair to assume that Devs are using something a bit newer

pliant temple
#

age doesn't matter, compare it to modern ones (they may have got like 10-15% increase max), and don't forget arma is about ghz with lack of multi-core usage, which is exactly what 7700k does. perfect spec for arma. Now imagine being a laptop guy.

tall portal
#

like I said, this is the exact same complaint that was made at the launch of Arma 3 about Altis, at the launch of Apex about Tanoa

median portal
#

but they shouldnt optimize something to be playable 2-3 years after release

#

they should optimize it to be playable on all systems at release

tall portal
#

you must be new to the gaming industry - it's not been that way for 20+ years. Every game has pushed the envelope

pliant temple
#

nah this time it's worse, altis and even tanoa didnt suffer on high-end specs

tall portal
#

The old conspiracy theory was that games developers were paid by Intel, NVidia, AMD and ATI to keep sales of new hardware high. It wasn't very long back that you'd buy a state of the art gaming rig to play the games released in Jan only for that same machine to struggle with the games released in June

#

Honestly this would probably been the longest I've gone without having to do major upgrades on my PC, and some of that is just down to the declining effect of Moore's Law. At it's worst, backin the day, less 18 months was all it took for the best systems to become potatoes

median portal
#

if the performance doesnt improve , ill personally just be sticking to the other maps, like tanoa, malden and altis

tall portal
#

I still get the feeling from time to time that I should always be upgrading, then I look at how little gain I would get from that upgrade and I decide I won't waste my money. Ryzen 3 is interesting enough from the multi-core performance perspective for me to start thinking about it again though

median portal
#

the new processors generally look really exciting

#

most important thing its massive competition for intel

tall portal
#

yep, I've been using Intel for a while ever since AMD were last on top, but I'm glad they finally have some competition again.

#

I'm not loyal to Intel, if anything I've always rooted for AMD as the underdog but at the end of the day I wasn't going to buy the second best product just to help the little guy

median portal
#

i bought my 1600x because it wasnt to costly, and still offered great performance

sleek yoke
#

@tall portal not much has happened on single core performance. They only got more and more cores - which doesnt matter for old game engines like arma

tall portal
#

@sleek yoke yep, that's why I'm only looking for the 3900X to match the performance in Arma that I'm currently getting from my 5 year old Intel CPU for it to be an insta-buy

#

For everything else I do with my PC, that CPU will be a massive improvement, I just don't want to hurt Arma's GPS in the process of upgrading

opaque robin
#

FWIW i just went from a GTX 670 to 1660 Ti, Arma 3 FPS improved considerably. Could pretty much max out a lot of the GPU settings (i.e. except object related settings). now I get 45-50 FPS flying around Tanoa, similar in Werferlingen towns. 60-80 FPS on Infantry showcase.

#

The only thing that makes it dip down into the 30s is PiP

ebon jasper
#

I made little test which gives direction what eats fps:
Random place in topolin

Start fps 31
Houses takes 5fps
Trees takes 5fps
Bushes takes 10fps
Fences/walls takes 11fps
powelines takes 1fps
railroad takes 3fps
rest objects takes 30fps
clutter takes 10fps

End fps 101 fps

median portal
#

What

ebon jasper
#

What what

median portal
#

What is the 101 fps at the wnd made from?

#

Is that just how much fps you had?

ebon jasper
#

101 fps is then town is almost empty

median portal
#

Ahhh so you started somewhere then slowly removed everything?

ebon jasper
#

Yes, result are not right, will change depends what hide first. Biggest problem is at towns have too much objects.

median portal
#

You should maybe clarify that abit

#

Because it was really confusing if you dont know that you took stuff away

ebon jasper
#

Try yourself: in console:
{
hideObjectGlobal _x;
} forEach nearestTerrainObjects [player, ["bush"], 1000];
Possible type names:"TREE", "SMALL TREE", "BUSH", "BUILDING", "HOUSE", "FOREST BORDER", "FOREST TRIANGLE", "FOREST SQUARE", "CHURCH", "CHAPEL", "CROSS", "BUNKER", "FORTRESS", "FOUNTAIN", "VIEW-TOWER", "LIGHTHOUSE", "QUAY", "FUELSTATION", "HOSPITAL", "FENCE", "WALL", "HIDE", "BUSSTOP", "ROAD", "FOREST", "TRANSMITTER", "STACK", "RUIN", "TOURISM", "WATERTOWER", "TRACK", "MAIN ROAD", "ROCK", "ROCKS", "POWER LINES", "RAILWAY", "POWERSOLAR", "POWERWAVE", "POWERWIND", "SHIPWRECK", "TRAIL"

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/nearestTerrainObjects

nearestTerrainObjects
median portal
#

Dont have devbranch installed anymore, and since making a second install of arma thats devbranch with arma 3 tools is broken currently, im to lazy to download 8 gbs again, which would also take a long time

ebon jasper
#

I have to say at objects quality is almost 100%, trees/bushes are so good looking, Just brilliant.

#

Its quite easy to get more fps from terrains, just remove from big towns all useless objects, benchs, garbage, wrecks... Removing those objects dont change gameplay. One bad fps place affects almost whole terrain.

median portal
#

I do agree that wrecks are kinda useless and should be placed by mission makers

#

Especially when its wrecks for vehicles that we dont have

pliant temple
#

It's not that easy, simply removing those can make towns look artificial. This is what non-bis terrains suffer from

#

I believe more elegant solution could have been done, specificly - distant lods adjusted for those

#

Kavala also have high amount of objects and props yet it's ok

tall portal
#

If you had them, they wouldn't be wrecks? Livonia is a military training ground, it's actually the one map where wrecks actually make a little sense

#

such places are typically covered in old vehicles used for target practice at some point in the past

pliant temple
#
  • what do you mean by wrecks? broken cars? there are not a lot of those
median portal
#

what country is livonia based on again?

trail crystal
#

Livonia is based on Livonia

#

more specifically Polish Livonia

#

there is the wikipedia article about it ^

ebon jasper
pliant temple
#

uh, not informative enough, you missed nadbor and topolin + some other places. basicly it's easy to determine where fps will suffer now. Just need either dense forest or widespead city, or a combination of forest+buildings

ebon jasper
#

I can make new one

pliant temple
#

I think devs know(or i hope they do) what is the issue. I just... kinda lost hope that it'll be looked at given the amount of resources they got.

opaque robin
#

@median portal Livonia is named after the actual Latvian region of Livonia. Sat map is based on an area in Czechia. In terms of arma "lore" it's a fictional country that mostly overlaps with south-west Lithuania, but also a small portion of Poland and Belarus. The terrain as represented represents the Polish bit.

still ember
#

@round badge I played on 15fps average for years. Was playable for me
I see you're a man of culture as well. Not many people know what's it like to get 2000h in Arma with 15 fps average

#

Really tho guys, it's safe to say that we can all agree that Livonia's fps is garbage. I can cram 150 AI into a random scenario on Tanoa and still get tons of fps more compared to a simple drive trough empty Livonia.

gaunt epoch
#

Until I recently got my new rig I played 8-10000 hours in ARMA3 with an A7 AMD processor, 8MB RAM and a GTX 660... 20FPS was something I rarely saw

pliant temple
#

@still ember
But visual-wise it's as much of improvement over tanoa, can't deny that too. They could try to do some optimization tweaking distant lods of small props, but I'm not holding my breath.

opaque robin
#

8MB RAM man... that's overkill 😛

median portal
#

8mb ram? man, quit bragging

#

😛

mellow gulch
#

man thats nothin
i got me some 8kb ram

brave bough
#

can you run arma 3 with 8 kb of ram?

pliant temple
#

Sure, Arma doesn't know anything about ram or video memory existence, it loves your cpu and cpu only on the harddrive bed.
But can we stop it, it's terrain feedback channel, let's not make it hard to find actual feedback.

median portal
#

I higly doubt that arma will run on 8 kb ram

sleek yoke
#

you could try some tests and see whats the biggest fps cruncher, when you hide houses or vegetation via that 3den Module

sleek yoke
#

regarding fps - i played A2 with 20-25fps. It was fine at the time (playing CTI against bots ) But movement and aiming always felt really clunky. Upgrading and going back later just showed that this no longer felt this way with 60fps. Also played planetside 2, and had the same experience. 25-30 fps. In PvP this sluggishness was much more frustrating than in arma. Always had trouble hitting in 1vs.1 situations . After upgrading to gtx660ti i got stable 60fps and my KDr jumped from ~1.2 or such to nearly double that. Quite a difference...

pliant temple
#

So is perfomance going to be addressed?
I am ok with cities/towns eating your fps, but when forests eat as much (which is a big chunk of the map), I am not sure how is this supposed to work. less than 2 weeks till launch.

pliant temple
#

actually, nevermind, can't come up with any solution. small props are already hidden properly at distance.
Guess that is a sacrifice one shall take for having proper dense forests

sleek yoke
#

i mean... you could hide the forrest entirely :]

pliant temple
#

I have another "solution":)

https://imgur.com/a/HNc99Ek
Clutter/Satmap mismatch. Grass instead of corn (or color it a bit diffrent from the rest of the fields)
position: [6369.05,9613.68,0]

pliant temple
bitter needle
#

it's especially problematic because this is the closest town to the BLUFOR base in Warlords and the road that you would take into the town

#

Town is Zalesie

opal vortex
#

looks like a job for the "CUP ai driving labs research group" 😄

tall portal
#

it's actually pretty realistic, houses that close to the road in rural villages routinely get hit by large vehicles 😃

#

but let's hope it gets fixed all the same

stone pewter
#

yup, just read up about US Army in Poland after they moved to the new base

#

one intersection, one week, three accidents 😄

pliant temple
#

so what FPS do you guys get in Warlords on Livonia?

bitter needle
#

it's actually pretty realistic, houses that close to the road in rural villages routinely get hit by large vehicle
That might be true but when it does the vehicle doesn't normally do the weird physx stuff this one did. Whereas it might be realistic it's annoying for mission makers when they can't reliably make missions in an area due to AI doing stupid stuff.

#

I don't remember what my FPS was for Livonia Warlords but my computer kept freezing up for short periods of time for unknown reasons

#

I haven't played on Livonia long enough in non-warlords scenarios to see that type of result anywhere else. Combat Patrol seemed fine though

pliant temple
#

I have a hard time to see livonia being playable for complex MP mods.

bitter needle
#

I'm hoping it gets improved somehow. It's really their best map but the performance does seem to be making it a bit tough on people

pliant temple
#

10 days to release, doubt anything is going to change.

sullen arrow
#

I have had zero FPS issues with the map honestly.

#

George Town from Tanoa is the only thing that really meh'd my comp

inner zenith
#

grass layer on livonia is very poor. eg on altis we have bushes, flowers, dried grass, a lot of plants and grass of different heights and types. devs come on! make it better, not copy paste like you made it now. i like a new terrain, but not a grass. OFP maps had beter quality of a grass then Livonia in 2019

bitter needle
#

OFP maps didn't have any grass (unless you mean the crappy Codemasters ones). Grass isn't even placed like objects so it can't be copy and pasted.

#

And there are flowers... and bushes and grass of different heights

📎 unknown.png
inner zenith
#

@bitter needle , and now open altis and to comparisons, see the difference. grass on livonia looks like schoolboy's mod. and i know that u cant to place grass as an object.

#

Sahrani is not ofp? ok. I was wrong.

deep ore
#

Altis had a larger dev team on it.

#

More resources helps in having less compromises.

bitter needle
#

And altis is naturally more diverse. Plus altis requires less other surfaces whereas Livonia has two for forests, two for grass, dirt, wheat, asphalt, and a few others which means it's already at it's limits in most places

#

Livonia looks exactly how I'd expect it to look

deep ore
#

Yup.

pliant temple
naive heath
#

I love Altis as much as the next guy, but is altis really that diverse? Dry fields, Dry hills, dry cities, dry forests, dry sanddunes, and dry everything else?

#

Plus everything is brown

#

I think Malden is more diverse. Even if that too is very brown.

pliant temple
#

Altis is quite green in some areas. However it was ruined in 2016 with "lighting upgrade" configs

#

I'm so glad we have proper lighting config for livonia.

stone pewter
#

Me pre 2016: this is too brown, is my display broken?

#

Me post 2016: it is so brown, fukken lighting update

brave bough
#

altis is green???? now way!

#

livonia is green dou

nova dove
#

Livonia is peak aesthetic prove me wrong

#

Especially with fog

tall portal
#

Altis really is actually pretty green when you compare it to Greek islands that it's based on, actually almost all Mediterranean islands

#

that's something I think a lot of people forget, that Arma's locations are actually inspired by and somewhat faithful to real world environments.

#

criticising Altis for looking brown is akin to criticising a game set in a major city for looking too grey

#

on balance the lighting update did make the lighting look more realistic. Because this is a game however you can always just turn up the green channel on your monitor ...

#

(as Peter Jackson did in the Blu-ray release of LoTR because he felt that the Shire didn't look green enough!)

viral belfry
#

Altis is pretty diverse imo, in some locations it looks like it never had water, and for some jungle camo works fine.

cunning fiber
#

Graphics Bug

sullen arrow
#

I'm more curious what is in the tent XD

#

Regarding diversity. and comparison between Altis and Livonia. I think in terms of vegetation and such, Altis is pretty bland. Yea you get a hilly NW and a flate SE areas. But overall the terrain is pretty much the same. What I think makes Altis a staple is the flow of how everything is positioned.

#

Military bases actually placed in stratigic areas, Being a island, it's easy for new players to understand things like Telos and Military Hill being important tactical locations to own.

opaque robin
#

Yeah

#

I wish Altis had more woodland

#

I like Malden in that respect, some of the orchards and vineyards and little groves are really nice

#

Stratis is just hills

#

Livonia and Werferlingen are both nice because they have fields and gentle hills but woods and forests too

pliant temple
#

Altis terrain maker was much more limited in the amount of assets. and what has been achieved with those is great

#

Malden is the opposite of diversity. It's the same deserted mountains with occasional forests. Given the variety of assets available, malden was boring. I have no will to return to it unlike altis, which is more diverse yet have less, much less assets.

carmine vapor
#

i like all of the maps irregardless

pliant temple
#

well, clearly there is much more effort thrown in release of the game then in dlcs, especially free ones, so it's ok in that term ofcourse.

sullen arrow
#

Thats honestly comparing grapes vs apples.

#

Altis is like 2.2x bigger then malden in terms of land mass

#

Livonia is honestly basically a mini chern.

#

It has about everything chern has to offer, minus major cities.

opaque robin
#

Yeah malden is just limited in size, but we've played missions in pretty much every corner

#

same for altis, although there are areas where we haven't had missions set in, because they're just kinda bare

#

Stratis and Tanoa have patches of just jungle/forests so we've not been able to utilize them, but i think pretty much every town or village on those maps, or other interesting locations (like the mines or lumberyards) have been used by our mission makers

#

Since we're a vanilla community we squeeze every last inch out of these maps 😄

brave bough
#

i always wanted to see large American urban centers in arma but thats just unrealistic

opaque robin
#

don't know how interesting those would be tbh

#

Georgetown and Kavala are both underused in our case

brave bough
#

well yeah it would be hard to work with due to its sheer size

carmine vapor
#

I still want to see somewhat-large urban areas

#

think the sort of built-up town you'd see in OMSI or some such

#

I feel like Taviana got it right in A2

#

no idea how well that sort of map would translate into A3

median portal
#

Might aswell just make it on a powerpoint presentation, with just still images you can navigate through, you can imagine the fps

opaque robin
#

well, there are a number of issues with large urban spaces. To make them performant you can't really have much detail, e.g. no interiors on most buildings and not enough props and objects in the streets. That kinda makes those spaces less useful, like Georgetown's skyscrapers. Second, there are a lot of models where the AI will either fall through or clip or flip etc. Third, AI tends to avoid buildings, and fixing them in place causes them to "wall hack", and shoot people through walls and floors.

#

So i'd much prefer smaller urban areas with a high degree of detail and usable buildings

#

and of course i really want to see AI behave better and not wallhack in The Next Arma Game ™

random ether
#

Mmm, and I will say this about Livonia compared to Altis and the like

#

I could never be in combat in Altis on foot and not feel terribly exposed. Like it felt like the map was better suited to vehicle combat.

opaque robin
#

Yeah, it is, although there are certain infantry friendly parts

#

So it's more about being careful with the setting, and adding wrecks and clutter if there are exposed areas

median portal
#

Thats why there are these small walls everywhere, to create cover

opaque robin
#

Eh they're not always there/enough

random ether
#

Yeah and even with those small walls the moment the enemy has anything with wheels I immediately feel exposed / vulnerable nearly beyond reason. That said I do agree with other statements about the sort of natural flow of Altis and from what I can see Livonia feels like it has something similar with a more infantry-centric sort of thing.

#

Where the map has naturally understood tactical points that are important to hold over others, where a platoon of infantry would be able to effectively control a much larger area than normal. Plus I can only imagine how effective the trees will be in teaching newer players the important of sight-lines and sector coverage.

cunning fiber
#

Land_House_2W03_F Bug:
It is not possible to get self placed items inside this house into cursortarget / cursorobject.
It always returns the house, not the placed items.
Needed for Looting Containers for example

📎 20190721160223_1.jpg
carmine vapor
#

woah, where'd you get that sofa from?

cunning fiber
#

@carmine vapor It is from EpochMod 😉

woven quarry
#

4 days till Livonia is officially released and still complete audio cutout over the whole river system from east to west. 😦

viral belfry
#

probably all fixed in next patch after contact release or as hotfix or.... most likely.... never fixed like the clouds shape or AI driving or flying tanks...

woven quarry
#

mmm.....the audio bug has been present since Livonia was first pushed to Dev branch, reported many times, still no fix.

mint axle
#

is it on the bohemia bug tracker?

woven quarry
#

not sure.^^ I haven't created a ticket myself, but it has been reported in the Livonia feedback thread over at the official forum......here's a video, this can be replicated over all bodies of water on Livonia.

mint axle
#

yeah I know what you mean

viral belfry
#

@woven quarry nah thats just the alien sound dampening field

naive heath
#

Anyone find any ghosts yet?

brave bough
#

Wot

plush matrix
#

I wish there were more gas stations

brave bough
#

I wish they were more modern since 2039

pliant temple
#

Their scarcity and disabled "auto-refuel" thing is great. On previous terrains I would have to replace modern ones with older ones

viral belfry
#

More fuel stations are a MUST. 2 on that entire massive map is rather sad, about to place fuel pumps and fuel station markers in every mission of mine using it to make up for lack of em.

pliant temple
#

so you can place them yourself if you need them, i don't see a must

plush matrix
#

There needs to be more for a country that big

bitter needle
#

2 is about right. Look at the real world area and then keep in mind that half of the Arma version is a military zone

pliant temple
#
  • there is a lot of cisterns here and there. who knows what is inside
orchid basalt
#

Cisterns? Gotta be Miller's McGuffin Fuel

viral belfry
#

anyone here plays grand theft arma server

opal vortex
#

@viral belfry
so... some exercise for you: move your eyes to the top of this chat screen and tell us what the topic is. once you have done this practice, reread your question and tell us what this has to do with what the channel topic is.
are you ready?
GO

viral belfry
#

You are rude I am leaving this server

mossy scroll
viral belfry
#

Server is trash anyways

opal vortex
#

sorry, what?

viral belfry
#

Say sorry or I am leaving

mossy scroll
#

go away

opal vortex
#

if you feel offended by that, rethink your choice of using the internet at all

viral belfry
#

Trash server bye

opal vortex
#

no tears shed...

#

cya

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

sleek yoke
#

next on some life kid channel: "i'm so hardcore, they banned me"

opal vortex
#

reddit rant inbound

viral belfry
#

instead of leaving , he could just use a lighter and burn audiocustoms santa beard but whatever ¯_(ツ)_/¯

opal vortex
#

smb tried it once... i think he's still eating with a straw

viral belfry
#

😂

opal vortex
#

i'm serious...

#

do i look like i'm joking?

#

i'm german, as you all know we don't have humor 😄

viral belfry
#

HANZ hol den luger

lilac dove
#

that was a bruh moment

woven quarry
#

Man, i really hope the ambient audio cut out over the river system has been addressed for release day. 🙏

spring echo
#

It is

viral belfry
#

@woven quarry it should be fixed

pliant temple
#

Just found anthills in forest, love the forests

#

Has the switch between soundcontrollers also been addressed? I have weird audio issues during the switch in the left headphone. Or is it only me?

spring echo
#

@pliant temple are you using USB headphones by any chance?

mint axle
#

I've had those too, but they seem a lot less severe recently

#

and I'm using a USB mixer

pliant temple
#

@spring echo
yes

pliant temple
#

Also regarding perfomance. It's a bit strange. I'm speaking with guy who has nearly the same CPU (i5 8600k) as me (i7 7700k) but only 1 GB video memory(I got 1080TI). Everything else (ssd. ram) is nearly the same too.
And he gets like 20-30 higher FPS than me on Livonia so... maybe it's not that bad. Will be interesting to see more broad results.
He never gets below 70 fps in topolin.

opaque robin
#

but only 1 GB video memory
you mean 1GB more? pretty sure 1080 Ti has more than 1GB... or you mean the other guy has just 1GB VRAM?

mossy scroll
#

He clearly says that the other guy has 1gb

opaque robin
#

okay, the mention of the 1080 Ti without mention of the other GPU confused me

#

but re-reading it, it's clearer to me now

deep flint
#

1gb memory? What year is it? 2005?

opaque robin
#

Eh to be fair even GPUs in 2011-2016 were being released with 1GB VRAM

deep flint
#

Well, true.

viral belfry
#

They aren't gaming capable GPUs though are they!

pliant temple
#

well funny thing is that guy with 1 GB GPU has higher fps than I have with my 1080TI 😃

lyric olive
#

are you running your 1080Ti with a pentium G4520 or something though? 😛

pliant temple
#

i7 7700k

lyric olive
#

and 1gb GPU guy?

#

tbf a 1080 Ti is probably massive overkill for arma

#

your bottleneck will be something else

pliant temple
#

Well if he turns on shadows or a few other parameters that depend on gpu he is fcked. But apart from that he has higher fps than I have with similar settings:D

lyric olive
#

he doesn't have shadows? 😛

pliant temple
#

shadows are so badly optimized in arma to be fair

lyric olive
#

I could probably get a higher FPS than most people if I too was willing to make the game look like shit

#

yeah but not having them at all just looks weird

#

everything floats

robust trellis
opaque robin
#

shadows are so badly optimized in arma to be fair
they are? I don't usually see much impact from them

#

they're usually need RAM/VRAM but otherwise not too much

paper oasis
#

Watching some streams and a GTX 1070 and i7-6700K, 16GB of RAM and a 500GB SSD and the guy is only getting 30 FPS on Livonia...

pliant temple
#

I also don't see much impact (still -5 fps or so) with 50 meters distance, but that is with engame gpu. I was trying to force shadows on my server, but there is so much complaints.

#

@paper oasis
sad to hear. I hoped it was only me

paper oasis
pliant temple
#

R.I.P:D

opaque robin
#

i mean... he's streaming as well

#

if he's using CPU encoding then that'll hit Arma performance

surreal shell
#

Terrain is a beauty, however I get FPS ranging from 30-50 on it while on other maps I get 50-90.

plain pewter
#

I would guess that's because Arma only uses one CPU core independent of the starting parameters ...

opaque robin
brave bough
#

I’m used to 45 FPS in arma now

stone pewter
#

10 😐

round badge
#

stop bragging with your knowledge of binary

viral belfry
#

Livonia is honestly great even though i ran 24 frames through the entire campaign when it usually runs 45

still ember
#

Yea I got 20-25 fps even tho on tanoa I have 90 and even more on Altis.

viral belfry
#

I'm getting very low frames compared to the other maps, especially around towns

median portal
#

Livonia has awful performance

untold elk
#

So, only those who bought Contact can play Livonia, right?

lilac dove
#

Right

#

It's like Tanoa and Apex p much

untold elk
#

Alright, thanks for the clarification

random ether
#

Um... then how do I have access to it in the Editor when I didn't buy it?

mint axle
#

Livonia?

#

Can you load it up?

random ether
#

Yeah.

mint axle
#

and what if you put down a unit and hit play?

random ether
#

And zoom around in camera view, place units, etc.

#

Haven't tried that yet.

mint axle
#

I reckon it'll boot you out then

random ether
#

Cus IIRC you couldn't even see Tanoa without the DLC on the editor list, let alone load it up

mint axle
#

IDK, maybe something to do with how the contact's split up

random ether
#

I'm not complaining if the non-alien-ified map is among the free content

mint axle
#

Me neither

#

I'd be surprised though

random ether
#

Because I have access to the various uniforms and stuff as well, at least in Virtual Arsenal.

#

Which look sick enough that I'm definitely buying the DLC next pay-day.

mint axle
#

oh yeah the Virtual Arsenal and Virtual Garage always let you use stuff unhindered

#

sort of a preview kind of thing