creator_dlc_discussion

[ebon sedge]

I'd assume that unannounced CDLC projects are allowed to advertise role openings with the fact of them being CDLC projects

as we saw with Rob advertising role openings on the S.O.G:PF project, before it was announced

[sinful cape]

that's what i mean. otherwise finding people for certain tasks becomes unnecessarily hard (/stupid)

cdlc is more serious business than "need help for my mod" :>

[hallow parrot]

Yeah, I've ever seen Rob is recruiting some people for a CDLC project, which is most likely for SOGPF before SOGPF

[knotty ore]

he did mention it

I recall.

if CDLC project wants/needs to do so, Id ask BI first if its cool

[ebon sedge]

See for example: #creators_recruiting message

[devout turtle]

Ah yeah that ad bagged us Jaaziar and then sape brought in barry the cat who was a magnificent find. Two awesome poster artist/ designers. I advertised even as far back as 2018, and even gave some screenshots of example content in some of our more remote artist adverts

But i never once confirmed the topic of our project, but if you looked at our website and then the advert you could have worked it out, we just never confirmed anything

[ebon sedge]

at least the rough idea was pretty easy to figure out I think, with things like the huey on the website (iirc) and the tanoa building retextures

[pine aurora]

have the missions for the contact campaign been released yet?

[knotty ore]

no @pine aurora. Also #contact_discussion next time 😉

[pine aurora]

I read creator as contact, god thats embarrassing
Okay cheers

Dont.. even ask I don't even know how haha

[knotty ore]

😵

[modern solar]

There's also these messages, 🙂
#creators_recruiting message
Which specifically mention advanced medical, hand signals, ambient AI voices, melee, ambient radio, advanced air support

All that made it in as well

[ebon sedge]

ooh yeah

[devout turtle]

note the wording

examples of functions

i.e. I'm still not confirming anything

or promising it

so, so long as you're choosing your words carefully, you can say quite a lot about your project, without saying anything conclusive

that's not against the rules of NDA, because you're not saying "content X is coming in our dlc which is set in theatre Y and will be released on date Z" kinda thing

"this is the kind of thing we might be considering" in the context of a recruitment, should be ok

saying that in the context of talking about your project as some kind of announcement, is not advised

i.e. an advert has no public discussion or further responses

technically, even talking about your DLC content would not actually breach your NDA with bohemia, as the information is yours and not theirs.

but it's not advisable to annoy your publisher and only customer

and partner

[mint nebula]

at least for us the issue was not in the least lack of content, we would have enjoy it more if it had less stuff and a better map and some other things that detracts from the experience. Also I don't think it's unbalanced entitlement in the least, I paid for a product, used it, in the end should be able to criticise it for it's ups and downs, after all I'm not hating on SOG, it's a good product depending on what you're looking for, imo it does somethings well(gun sounds and soundtrack, some assets) and others put me off from enjoying it further, I know that's harsh to read that as a content creator and I hope you don't take it in a bad way as I'm not stating it is "utter trash" or some unbalanced opinion like that, what I'm saying is that there are things that detracted from the experience that took away our enjoyment of it.

[devout turtle]

yep each to his own, but saying it's not good value for money is frankly deluded.

I'm not being all butthurt here, I just feel for future creator DLCs who would be held up against our massive amount of content and criticised for not being so extensive.

the level of expectation of a creator DLC on release day is way too high

[silk jolt]

Isn't "value" more of a personal preference? Also maybe it is true, that many who buy are still in school. Since your CDLC is the (slightly) priciest, one could point out that the price differs not that much from the base game.

I´m not to sure what to make of it, but DLCs in general spark a lot of discussions.

[devout turtle]

Apex $35, our DLC $23 (and frequently on sale at $20). Roughly the same content.

[silk jolt]

It seems regional prices differ quite a lot

[sinful cape]

with prices you really can't win when it comes to arma. check out other games where simple reskins or a horse armor costs you 2,99 and nobody really cares / people learned to just accept it. imagine how the arma community would react if BI starts selling 2,99 texture packs.

[silk jolt]

That's what I meant with "DLCs in general"

Also, that a game just pushes content into DLCs effectively hiding the price "the game" actually demands

But that might mean that some are already frustrated from other games

[sinful cape]

maybe it's just too easy to voice the opinion about arma. other companies like a take2 simply dont't care. they are faceless behemoths.

[silk jolt]

I take it also from Rob's answer, that apparently not everybody talks about the same price situation. I somewhat assumed that prices where roughly the same everywhere

[uncut meadow]

Sports gamers seem to just accept a lot of questionable practices, looking straight at you fifa and madden, though take two's basketball game was also awful

[round rock]

I have 19.99€ for APEX and 22.99€ for SOG.

Actually on Steam

Both full price

[uncut meadow]

That is most curious

$24.99 for Apex and $22.99 for PF here.

[round rock]

Mmh.. interesting

[wide steppe]

Apex has it's priced adjusted for euro/usd, but SOG doesn't, it seems

19.99€ & 22.99€ here too

[devout turtle]

Apex was $36 on release

[wide steppe]

good thing they reduced it, def not worth that much

esp now compared to CDLCs

[karmic harness]

Note that without additional DLCs for Arma, you'd be stuck with the base game from 2013. Not sure if this is what you'd want in 2021 😄

[silk jolt]

Again, I was refering to other games. But I think we all agree, that the base game is one big limiting factor for DLCs, especially in 2021.

[sinful cape]

keep in mind that features such as weapon deployment, etc. were also added with dlc

a3 without all the dlcs and their mechanical updates would look a lot different to what it is today

[silk jolt]

Yes, like the advanced helicopter model, but I think quite a lot got came also as platform update, right?

[sinful cape]

yes but it was financed by dlc sales

without them it is doubtful that a3 would have gotten the same attention

anyways. not really relevant for cdlcs, as they aren't adding such engine changes. not really sure where this was going now :p

[barren pasture]

Am i the only who want a creator dlc in a modern warfare ?

[ashen geyser]

Everybody and their mother makes mods for that setting. You can simulate the Afghan war in a billion different ways already. Why do you want a CDLC for it?

[torpid hearth]

I'll take a cdlc for anything tbh

Top of my list is Korea tho

[mint nebula]

yeah me too

[hallow parrot]

Korea sounds cool. As a Japanese also think oppressed Japan is a nice idea

[jade otter]

Japanese occupation of Korea could be cool too

[ebon sedge]

good luck keeping the pegi rating with anything to do with japanese occupations

[hallow parrot]

Honestly one thing I miss in the gaming industry is post-WW2 and modern-ish Japan faction in war games. Wargame: Red Dragon is an example, but just one of the very very few something

[prisma mountain]

I'ma actually very surprised the Korean war hasn't been covered at all. Proto-style tech, WWII tactics, interesting terrain, etc.

[silk jolt]

Maybe too close to Vietnam

[tepid lance]

Too close to WW2 in gear and equipment. Something like "WW2 but with jets".

[devout turtle]

would be quite cool with some module that created AI who ran and hipfired or blew bugles, with minimum simulation on them, so you could mow down waves of attackers.

or be overrun

not many games do hordes that well. you need something akin to L4D

chinese tactics were generally overwhelming waves on repeat

would work well for WW1 too

[knotty ore]

Could probably be done with custom AI FSM + animation set. It's just slightly unexplored area of developing Arma stuff

[ebon sedge]

Hm I think I saw a ww2 script or something that did attacker hordes like that, been a while since I looked at it though

[knotty ore]

Yeah it can be done with scripting. Also needs good terrain+assets that allow good AI movement.

FSM behavior would just perhaps be better performing and more reliable way than constantly overwriting the underlying behavior with scripts

[karmic harness]

so you could mow down waves of attackers
Arma 3: Tower Defence? 😉
(after seeing Super Miller Land, nothing and I really mean NOTHING will surprise me, anymore)

[nimble hatch]

Question; why do objects not having the same naming rules as animations (https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/AnimationTitles) ?
If they did, would it affect/improve performance?

[red saddle]

Naming is very much unrelated to performance
Giving your car a different name doesn't make it go faster

[nimble hatch]

i mean in general passive setting, of an object existing/present in a scenario, or even in zeus, spawning items, could there not be a minimal performance increase?

[red saddle]

I don't see how it would

The game doesn't care about naming rules, all it sees is a series of bytes

[nimble hatch]

well, from my uninformed view, the same way animations are found via naming structure, the objects would have the same kind of process kind of thing

[red saddle]

the same way animations are found via naming structure
They are not

The naming structure is for humans, not for the engine

[nimble hatch]

so this animation titles BS, also, has no effect on performance?

[red saddle]

it doesn't

Not on game performance

it has effect on human performance

[nimble hatch]

please explain very briefly as dont quite understand

without making me look like as much of a tard

[red saddle]

With a naming standard, a human knows what the animation is by looking at the name

Because the name says whats inside

[nimble hatch]

human performance when developing/maintaining animations in a game, i get it

[red saddle]

yeah

[sinful cape]

wasnt there something about variable length and performance though? :>

[red saddle]

not relevant

models and animations aren't really loaded that often
And even there the length of its name is a fraction of a percent..

[sinful cape]

i mean variable names now, not names of animations and models :p

could swear i have read something about it once, but it's been so long, i barely remember

that said, not sure why this discussion is in the cdlc channel 😄

[red saddle]

yes it makes a difference.
And is measurable if you compare 2 letter with 30 letter long variable names

But readable code is more important versus short variable names.
If you cannot read and understand you have a harder time seeing the real performance issues

[nimble hatch]

i know this was already covered in an earlier message somewhere, but cannot find it, but how would one name their object?

[knotty ore]

name what object?

object can be named anything.

usually it is good idea to name it something that tells what it is

[nimble hatch]

so lets say its an m113

and it was rhs (not my mod, just example)

[knotty ore]

AEDH¤%Q#¤aehbi4135.p3d does could work but makes no sense

[nimble hatch]

something like 'rhsm113..'?

[knotty ore]

usually yes

Project/ModTag_ prefix is preferred to distinguish files to belong to a certain project

but its just good practice, stuff works fine without it. until someone else uses the same file name

for example if you make \houses\house1.p3d it works

but if someone else also makes \houses\house1.p3d, we have a confict

https://tenor.com/view/vasu-gif-5203484

[sinful cape]

yeah but only if there is no project tag in the path

myAwesomeAddon\houses\house1.p3d

[knotty ore]

sure

but worst case scenario there is no project folder and no tag_

which is why tag_ is good idea to use

[tepid lance]

Proxies can also be affected by this naming conflict.

so best to tag all files, both model and textures. And of course addon file names, too.

[mild solstice]

With model.cfg it's also easy to create conflicts without properly tagging the skeleton classname there

[teal zenith]

Hi

[solar geyser]

m confused about Update 1.1 for the S.O.G. Prairie Fire DLC is now ready for testing!, can somebody explain.

[knotty ore]

whats confusing? @solar geyser

[solar geyser]

im confused about is it like public testing or somethin

and the steam access code

[knotty ore]

Release candidate branch is common practice in Arma yes

its not compatible with stable build if I remember right, but it allows you to test and feedback on upcoming things

[olive vortex]

https://arma3.com/dlc/creator#public-testing

[knotty ore]

you may need to own the DLC though. 🤔

[solar geyser]

may, i think you mean i need

[knotty ore]

it does make sense though

[loud apex]

#creators_recruiting message

[nimble hatch]

Anyone know of some good video game dev job websites please, need to post two jobs pronto, coder, gui

[uncut meadow]

I hear linkden is popular

[nimble hatch]

you mean linkedin?

[uncut meadow]

that's the one

[feral basin]

hitmarker

[devout turtle]

coder you can get any programmer and sqf is easy to learn.
gui is really arma specific, you're best bet is here

[olive vortex]

sqf is easy to learn
language is easy to learn but there's a lot of traps in the game itself. Stuff like optimisation for minimal network usage or general code optimisation needs quite a bit of experience.

[devout turtle]

very true

[long sail]

what would be some cdlc themes you guys would like to get? im interested

[hallow parrot]

I'm kinda interested in Korean War (first, maybe second too), or something like modern occupied/oppressed Japan as a Japanese

More like... I'd like to see a 2010-s Japanese force in a modern game!

[long sail]

sounds cool

i am interested in terrain making but i need a good pc first (only have an old laptop right now) and i really want to make a japanese island with all that stuff.

the biggest problem is that there are no japanese props in general and i dont have the money to pay model makers all alone

so i either need some model makers who just want to make something for the game or more people with money lol

[hallow parrot]

Sounds like you're voluntold to run away the highway of hell 🙂

[long sail]

yeah maybe

ive made a long long list of props assets and so on and i had like even 200 different models to make

i even asked loads of anime fans what i need to let a map look japanese (and yes i asked animeguys rather than japanese people since i suppose more people imagine japan like in anime than in real life tbh)

but if i will do anything i would never do this as a cdlc i suppose.
first i dont want people to have to pay for my stuff
second i fell like i have a lot of duties to update this for a long time and thats not really what i want

[ebon sedge]

I'd be interested in a 2035 cdlc

so something that expands the base-arma 2035 universe

[jade otter]

I'd like to see someone's original fictional creation

historical CDLC is amazing but I think someone with a really great fictional universe could shine

[loud apex]

☝same

[long sail]

yeah that would be awesome. we could need some african or non-chinese-asian 2035 fraction

[ebon sedge]

I think something set in africa would be cool to combine 2035 and 'modern' as in 2010s or so weapons

[long sail]

yeah thats a think arma does i really like. use nowadays stuff and make them slighty more future like but not scifi

imo the kuma is the best example for this

[ebon sedge]

Thats cool but not quite what I mean

I mean in the sense of adding 2035 content (so nato/csat african forces or something like that), but also local forces like local national armies or militias which use older stuff

[long sail]

so like a fraction with outdated stuff since its a poor fraction or something

[hallow parrot]

Or something like Third-World

[ebon sedge]

ye like that, poor country having to use older equipment

although that'd be similar to the way the aaf is equipped but could props do something with sanctions etc. so the equipment is different

[long sail]

maybe another equipment style that forces them to also fight in another style

like more use of improved explosives and so on

[ebon sedge]

Yee

Or a very armor-centric doctrine, stuff like that

so little infantry but a lot of vehcles

[long sail]

and maybe bad and unreliable weapons but a high calibre

[ebon sedge]

eeh unreliable weapons might be too scripty to add as part of a cdlc

would be cool tho

[hallow parrot]

I defo would like to love it if there is a 2035 DLC

[long sail]

i suppose thats kind of hard to do since every armored vehicle playstyle i know needs infantry support

[ebon sedge]

Tru, but there a lot that can be done to make it different from the normal faction

[long sail]

yeah more fractions, more maps, more story. i would also like arma 4 to continue the story

[long sail]

sure

maybe some highly mobile armored force that relies on speed and shock tactics

so literally blitzkrieg doctrine

[ebon sedge]

Yee

[long sail]

the good thing in arma imo is that balancing isnt always needed

sometimes one side is just stronger than the other one

[ebon sedge]

Ye, although usage of the content outside of the cdlc itself should be kept in mind tho

in user missions like koth for example

[long sail]

yeah im more that of a coop player so i wouldnt really mind

[hallow parrot]

Balancing itself is not a job for an asset IMO, 100 men of AT soldiers are OP against a tank 🙂

[long sail]

yes. tactics is the new balancing

[jade otter]

there is an aspect of balancing tho

It’s very easy to tell when content is unbalanced

i.e. mods with near invincible armor sets

[hallow parrot]

I know the idea. One weapon can be OP but my point is tactics has the superior against the balancing

[long sail]

i suppose this would never be part of a cdlc or dlc

[ebon sedge]

Imo available assets in a cdlc is very important for allowing balance
So for example one side having MBTs and Attack helicopters, while one side only has a few APCs and a littlebird with 50cals on it

[long sail]

enemy super soldiers in the city. nuke em

[hallow parrot]

A new Marvel comic lore? 🙃

[jade otter]

I wonder if Bohemia would allow an explicitly 2035 dlc

I feel like that would cause a lot of confusion

[long sail]

thats asymmetric warfare and its much more common than symmetric warfare in our times

[jade otter]

Like in future games people wondering why X faction wasn’t included and having to explain it was non canon

[long sail]

maybe if they did it theirself

[jade otter]

then it’s not really a cdlc

[long sail]

dlc yeah

[jade otter]

but yea not happening, no more official dlc for arma 3

[long sail]

i also kinda expect arma to make it downward mod compatible

[jade otter]

If there’s a new engine no way

new coding language as far as I know

atleast i hope

[long sail]

that would be awful

so much work

so much money

so much time

lost

[jade otter]

Well Arma 4 is going to be on a new engine with a new language

If we can base it off what exists already for DayZ

[long sail]

i hope they will find a way

[jade otter]

Yea you have to rewrite the mod in the new language

It hopefully the new language makes it easier

anyway back to topic, while a 2035 cdlc would be neat, I feel like Bohemia doesn’t want anything released that could be misinterpreted as canon

[long sail]

they should talk with the cdlc makers a lot to make it canon

[jade otter]

I don’t imagine that level of effort is put into arma 3

Because at that point it defeats the purpose of the cdlc for Bohemia to have direct involvement

[long sail]

yeah maybe

[jade otter]

And I’m sure all the story writers and content devs are long gone from the arma 3 dev team

Moved on to arma 4

[long sail]

i can be the new story writer

i dont know shit about modding but im good in telling stories

[jade otter]

then we’ve gotten back to the original point that Bohemia probably isn’t interested in putting a blessing on fanfiction

[long sail]

sadly only a very few companies do that

i suppose fanfiction is such a big blessing for companies or at least it could be

[nimble hatch]

are the amount of programmers im looking for in this community in the single digits or something? 😕

[devout turtle]

GUI - there are a few guys who know arma GUI coding very well, and a few more who can do it if pushed

[olive vortex]

The good ones? Yes, there's not many of them and most of them are busy.

[karmic harness]

With a strong emphasis on busy

[nimble hatch]

few guys, meaning single digits, maybe 10 at most?

[nimble hatch]

what do you advise ?

[nimble hatch]

right, would like to make them busy for me preferably lol

[olive vortex]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Arma is not really an ecosystem where you can appear as some unknown guy and get a lot of talented people working for you. You would need to offer good money and have project with good potential.

Also big chunk of the talent in the community is just doing it as an hobby and are not interested in doing stuff commercially as they already have a well paid jobs.

Turning your hobby into work is a great way to kill all enjoyment from it 😉

[nimble hatch]

😂

[nimble hatch]

quesiton there is how do i pitch it without giving away too much, catch 22 🤔

[ebon sedge]

Also big chunk of the talent in the community is just doing it as an hobby and are not interested in doing stuff commercially as they already have a well paid jobs.
and for the ones that are interested, there's the problem of transitioning from their current jobs to cdlc work, since CDLC work usually doesnt get paid before release

thus making it sorta difficult to live off of

[olive vortex]

idk, know people. If you're new to the community I think you might be in a hard situation.

[nimble hatch]

'already have a well paid jobs.', ' for the ones that are interested, there's the problem of transitioning from their current jobs to cdlc work'

my commission/work order based contract and very leanient/flexible deadline days, alongside only giving each team member the minimal, easily manageable workload, they can work to whatever pattern they want, if they work one hour one day, two the next, a few hours on a saturday, thats up to them, the last thing i want is to give them stress or interrupt their daily work

[ebon sedge]

[nimble hatch]

but, luckily, if someone reads that, it may sway them to dm me 🤞 That applies to both programmers and GUI, mainly GUI), may have to headhunt further afield

[random crane]

its not really a rule written in stone that you must be paid after publishing if you do work on a cdlc as a subcontractor or part-timer

[nimble hatch]

have paid all of my guys their first work order in advance of profits/on work order completion*, and pay in advance/work order completion where i can

[wraith sleet]

they the arma 3 devs and theyre creator partners and etc could do create and make DLCs from 1800s 1850s 1860s 1870s 1880s 1890s 1900s 2000s 2010s and beyond like in WW1 INTERWAR WW2 COLD WAR MODERN PRESENT TIME AND NEAR FUTURE

they could add many new factions

like ESTONIAN DEFENCE FORCE,FINNISH DEFENCE FORCE, RED ARMY and others

[loud apex]

[muted narwhal]

who is "they" in this capslock sentence of yours?

[wraith sleet]

the developers and theyre creator maker partners thats Who

[loud apex]

I think that's why mods exist

[muted narwhal]

you don't seem to understand how cDLC works

@nimble hatch say what?

[ebon sedge]

Where did this come from

thats, uh, ok

[nimble hatch]

In plain, and speaking in general, im here to play and create, not here to get involed in idle tit for tat, small talk nonsense

[ebon sedge]

but you did just that with your first message, no ?

[red saddle]

!issuewarning 540584779977064470 abusive language

[unkempt ridge]

Done.
furbzeyyy#4831 now has 6 infractions.

[jolly ingot]

sigh

[random crane]

sad

[nimble hatch]

unreasonable and unfair, them other infractions all came from my last interaction with pufu which was around 18 months ago

[red saddle]

You just started attacking him out of nowhere, unprovoked.
He didn't even talk to you.
No not unreasonable, start to behave and if you have personal issues keep them outta here

[nimble hatch]

i am a well behaved member of this community, for 99.95% of time

[red saddle]

Good, then keep it that way

[nimble hatch]

when will i lose them other infractions?

[red saddle]

Never

[nimble hatch]

best that i just block pufu while hes blocked me, just to be safe to not interact with him again

[muted narwhal]

@ebon sedgedon't worry about it

[nimble hatch]

You and i and many others 100% know Pufu is toxic, and of course he was speaking to me, i was the main participant/contributor to the last #creator_dlc_discussion topic when he commented, so i am right to feel unjustifably treated, excusing myself out of this situation

[red saddle]

and of course he was speaking to me
He was clearly talking to "MRM/PMRMTGI"

He was already talking to him one minute before.
And you didn't post anything for 20 minutes.

excusing myself out of this situation
Yes I really suggest you do that.

[loud apex]

Who's Pufu ?

Mea culpa, I'm just blind lmao

[karmic harness]

Shaiapouf (シャウアプフ, Shauapufu), nicknamed Pouf (プフ, Pufu), was a butterfly-humanoid Chimera Ant and one of the Chimera Ant King's Royal Guards. - everyone knows that, duh!

[wraith sleet]

did i do something wrong? i just gave ideas

[red saddle]

Your ideas sounded more like demands

You basically said "They should do everything!" which... is not that useful and feels more like trolling than anything

[wraith sleet]

alr fixed the msg

[wraith sleet]

they could add these new guns firearms and weapons:
M16A3
M16A4
M4
M4A1
XM4
AK47
AKM
TYPE 63

[red saddle]

@wraith sleet Please stop. It doesn't help anyone if you post in 4 channels at once what you want someone to do.
Devs will do what they want to do.
And yes they "could" of course they can, they know what they can and can't do you don't need to tell them that.

[wraith sleet]

alr alr sorry

there should atleast be a main ideas suggestions channel here atleast

[red saddle]

There is a reason why we don't have such a channel

[gritty hound]

because it likely won't be done and there is no reason to release a project since mods are keeping this game on life support

[devout turtle]

Many people in Arma discord have autism or ADHD some diagnosed and some not. We don’t need to feel responsible for precise responses to everyone - offered purely compassionately.

[jolly ingot]

ouch

[gritty hound]

Yikes

[sinful cape]

what's going on here, i'm away for a little bit and whole place burns down? typical

[gritty hound]

i wouldnt say burn down, more like home to bad takes

[lunar rivet]

Eh, I've come back to worse situations. This is tame in comparison.

[sinful cape]

t'was more a joke, coz usually not all that much is going on here :>

[cursive sorrel]

Is mike force like warlords

[knotty ore]

in sense that you fight yes, in other ways, not as much

[devout turtle]

Its PVE not PVP and its a community release not official

[cursive sorrel]

Community release? Isn’t the prairie fire dlc official?

[olive vortex]

DLC yes. But MikeForce is developed independently.

It's available on Steam workshop.

[devout turtle]

Warlords is part of ebo

[ebon sedge]

[nimble hatch]

ignore my last

😂

[cursive sorrel]

So mike force is or isn’t official?

[knotty ore]

what do you mean by official?

its made by people who made SOGPF

SOGPF being the DLC and MikeForce being a game mode developd for the DLC but separately

[devout turtle]

Mike Force is a steam community release, you don't pay for it, it's not part of the ebo files in the SOG DLC

it is managed and updated separately

we host it on official servers, along with other community game modes and bohemia game modes

i've seen a review on steam complaining the dlc isnt finished, and im assuming they meant the mike force game mode, as the dlc content is completely finished (though we plan future updates ofc).

mike force has a separate, published roadmap, as it's not part of the dlc (dlc = content licensed by Savage to Bohemia and released as ebo files on the steam store)

we can discuss future of mike force but not future of dlc. i can see why some people may be confused as the ypresume a game mode is part of the dlc, but it is a separate WORKSHOP download, not released or licensed on the STORE

[burnt stratus]

The true is that I would like to see achiviements for the cdlcs. I dont really understand why they dont have any

[knotty ore]

steam limitation

[sinful cape]

i think some people would be unhappy about having to own "unofficial" dlcs to get 100% achievements

[devout turtle]

we had fun dreaming up a ton of them, just for kicks

shame they can't be implemented, it is what it is 😉

[burnt stratus]

Could a mod from workshop make "achiviements for cdlcs and base game"?. I am not talking about steam achiviements something more like +extra stuff to do.

[knotty ore]

perhaps. its not quite the same thing though

[gritty hound]

I don’t think so

The only time for mods to have achievements is if the DLC is on another store page

[burnt stratus]

In this moment I only remember two skyrim and minecraft that have mods for extra achiviements, repeat im not talking about steam achiviements. Can a mod store values from diferents sessions and gamemodes? I think it could be a plus for this community if this "mod concept" let you creat achivements for your own missions and store the values in a database for your group.

In a MP enviorament i think it could be hard if there are a lot of conditions checks also it would cause bad performance.

But if you could make a list/choose and attach that to server/hoster params.. In SP i dont really know

[dusk peak]

That’s actually a pretty neat idea a community achievement mod.

[cloud quest]

yes, but those values are also available to the user to edit as they wish

[jade otter]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1681170/Arma_3_Creator_DLC_Western_Sahara/?fbclid=IwAR20cbZBpKv2krEfcTK2XX8SAWl4TNNbyjcFgo1w7bI7S2gAhU61XmzgobQ (new creator dlc announcement)

[random crane]

https://arma3.com/news/arma-3-creator-dlc-western-sahara-is-coming-soon?utm_source=arma3official_twitter&utm_medium=organic-social&utm_campaign=&utm_content=81f7a8bb-a0bb-45e0-8d3b-4a9f9cfa8b74 full announcement

[mint nebula]

I liked the honesty

[loud apex]

Nice !

[valid zealot]

Damn, did not expect such a cdlc

[somber ice]

Will there be a closed beta test as usual?

[jade otter]

Really the first of its kind for this

It’s 2035 themed and much smaller in scale

I hope this theme continues

[red saddle]

yes

[pure marten]

Congrats on the reveal. Couldn't wait till they my account back...

[jade otter]

really the first one meant to compliment vanilla instead of overhaul the game

[cerulean remnant]

Looks really good!

[wide steppe]

New channel when?

[red saddle]

soon™️

If you were invited to the closed beta, you should've received a E-Mail already.
If you were in past beta tests, check your mail

[molten ice]

awesome to finally see a CDLC based around the 2035 setting

[prisma minnow]

Looking forward to the Marshall variants.

Finally a proper successor to OA's Stryker with all those configurations.

[sinful cape]

the mortar variant is much fun

it's my fav 🙂

and the ai goes nuts with it. they will follow you around while bombing you. it's a fast mobile artillery.

[random crane]

carries ludicrous amounts of ammo too

[jade otter]

Desert terrain is my favorite part

Not enough good desert terrains out there

[pure marten]

Always wished something African

[steady gale]

so this one is just 7 bucks and only about 5GB?

I can see this one being adopted by a lot more communities just because of that

[jade otter]

Yea I hope it does well so we can have a trend of smaller cdlcs

Not just overhauls

[sinful cape]

yes, it's much smaller in scope than the other cdlc.

[tepid lance]

Fair price for sure!

[kind imp]

I like the exclusion of South African peacekeepers but inclusion of South African vehicles and weapons

[rich mist]

Is there a slight chance we could get this cdlc in base arma maybe?

[red saddle]

I would say no

[rich mist]

It would be really great

[sinful cape]

it's a fictional scenario. 🙂

[dull siren]

Honestly I already am thinking of historical/fictional missions people could make on this map

[red saddle]

Lexx do you actually do storytelling in there? About what happened around that area, and can it be connected to the Arma 3 lore?

[prisma minnow]

including the top-rated Arma 3 mini-campaigns Callsign Minotaur and Dunes.

[serene breach]

I think it would be a great a candidate to be loaded as base game content is

It seems to fit thematically in a3 verse

[prisma minnow]

Oh my. Now this is a campaign that sounds promising.

[cerulean remnant]

Toyota Wars

[sinful cape]

yes, it's tied into the lore. it's not huge, but fits the timeline.

[serene breach]

Missed opportunity to pass this one up!

[sinful cape]

one thing to note -- our scenario is coop. that means it sadly does not feel like minotaur / dunes. it is more the directon of Old Man (Lite). the primary focus is coop, however, we have added features to make it more fun in singleplayer as well.

[waxen lynx]

Kudos to Lexx, Chair and everyone else involved 👍

[solemn pelican]

Seems like we are paying for a campaign and reskins

[dull siren]

I hope there are new mechanics that come with this CDLC (like the ones that came with PF). Something relating to the heat comes to mind

[kind imp]

Ill add my own retextures

[cerulean remnant]

And terrain and new models

[prisma minnow]

As long as it's still supports SP to a degree then that's ok IMO

[static moth]

Can we get on the camel in the new CDLC?

[solemn pelican]

The terrain is the only redeeming item to me.

[solemn pelican]

Actually I’d pay just to drive a camel around

[sinful cape]

sadly no. it's an ambient animal similar to what exists in the base game already.

[static moth]

sad...

[tepid lance]

Wait, no "Get in as Driver in Camel"?

[static moth]

but we get a new drone right?

[pure marten]

But anyways, we have some scripts for it

[graceful willow]

That's exactly what I thought as well 😄

[wide steppe]

Anything is doable with mods

[prisma minnow]

Modular drone with customisable weapons.

[solemn pelican]

No camel vehicle . Boycott cdlc

[static moth]

That....what i call....fps russia drone

[wide steppe]

Just use the 'Invisible seat' mod and attach it to the camel

[sweet edge]

so I assume there will be no chance to combine your camel with upcoming Projet Edaly horse attributes? "rideability", animations etc

[gritty hound]

So this stuff is 2035 expansion, so why is it not going to be vanilla

[sinful cape]

probably not from our side, but who knows.

it's not impossible i guess

[sweet edge]

I was thinking about the animal being kept hostage in the EBO file

but I'm hoping for the best anyway

[gritty hound]

I get that it’s creator made but this whole CDLC thing really sucks. I can’t use these outside of expansion dlc

[static moth]

The good news is that I bought a fallout 4 and refunded about 10 dollars, and the better news is that CDLC is 7 dollars.

[prisma minnow]

It's going to be pretty cheap and is much smaller in size.

[red saddle]

I'm sure you'll get help if you'd try to make a compat for it

[calm aurora]

the fact the new dlc is 7 dollars and the heli dlc is is 9 is just sad

[gritty hound]

Hell I’d pay 12 just to have it be vanilla at this point

Bohemia sleeping on some real money here

[wide steppe]

Paying 12 for it to be free?..

[calm aurora]

Good that the CDLC creators are backing off from the cold war type of dlcs

[prisma minnow]

Prays to Kydoimos to incorporate the DLC's setting into the Armaverse timeline

[wide steppe]

I don't think bohemia is sleeping on any money with your suggestion

[gritty hound]

Why would you think that

[steady ravine]

is it lore friendly?

[gritty hound]

Vanilla dlc isn’t free

[wide steppe]

But the content is free to use

[sinful cape]

he wrote some of it 😉

[gritty hound]

Not always

[wide steppe]

yes always

[sinful cape]

yes

[wide steppe]

Only content that isn't free is the map, and that is regardless of CDLC or not

[gritty hound]

You can’t sit in naked seats in locked cars, you can’t pickup locked guns

You can’t be in anything without a giant screen covering your eyes begging to pay

It’s not free to use

[wide steppe]

I use Apex guns just fine, I sit in CDLC vehicles just fine too

And having a "giant" screen covering your eyes doesn't make it impossible to use

[gritty hound]

You literally cannot use named seats unless you own the dlc. End of discussion

[calm aurora]

They are making a fucking drone with a m240 on it

[gritty hound]

See we need that

[calm aurora]

we are getting it

[gritty hound]

Not in vanilla

[wide steppe]

Wth is a nama'd seat? You mean crewing vehicles?

[calm aurora]

I'm just mad that they are making it as a part of a CDLC not a normal DLC

[gritty hound]

A seat with a name, gunner driver commander etc

[wide steppe]

That is a limitation of not paying for it, but it can still be used for free without owning the DLC/CDLC

[gritty hound]

It’s not “using it” if your kept from really using it

[wide steppe]

You aren't stopped from spawning in it, controlling a unit in it, or teleporting into it

[gritty hound]

Yeah but those are workarounds

[jade otter]

I don’t think Bohemia is looking to make arma 3 open source, the cdlc is the only route that makes sense

[calm aurora]

if u have the non-owner mod for the cdlc

u are able to use vehicles and infarty

infantry*

just not the map

[gritty hound]

What do you mean?

Why can’t they release more vanilla dlc assets

Cause this CDLC thing really sucks

[jade otter]

Because the vanilla team is gone

This is made by a 3rd party

[gritty hound]

Yeah, why can’t Bohemia buy the work, and sell it with due credit?

[jade otter]

Because that program exists, called cdlc

[gritty hound]

But why does it exist

Saying it exists because it does is circular

I just want vanilla content dang it

[knotty ore]

U weird

[jade otter]

the point is there would either be this dlc as a cdlc, or it wouldn’t exist at all

there is no path where it’s an official add on

[red saddle]

Not everyone can get what they want

[graceful willow]

I was a fan of the Arma 3 approach to DLC's at first, but I'm against it now. Reason: there barely are any servers that have Tanoa or Livonia as their maps, even Prairie Fire maps have only a couple of populated servers. Makes a hardcore multiplayer fan like me sad

[gritty hound]

How am I weird for wanting some content I can use

[steady gale]

but you can use it

[wide steppe]

You can use this content too just fine

[knotty ore]

It would have same restrictions if it was normal dlc

[gritty hound]

No I can’t

[wide steppe]

Why not?

[steady gale]

yeah you can?

what's stopping you?

[wide steppe]

inb4 "Cuz its not released yet")))

[gritty hound]

I play pub Zeus mostly

[wide steppe]

Thats your problem

[jade otter]

the only difference between this and truly vanilla content is it’s become an optional download

[steady gale]

okay so play on servers that will have the DLC running

[gritty hound]

And that’s why I have an issue with it

[wide steppe]

Your choice of what you play is you limiting yourself

[gritty hound]

But nobody plays those

[gritty hound]

And that’s none of your business

[steady gale]

that's not really BI's problem is it

[wide steppe]

Nobody else is limiting you, and i'm pretty sure there are pub zeus servers for CDLCs too

[gritty hound]

As a paying consumer I have a right to voice my issues

[wide steppe]

kek

[graceful willow]

*priviledge

[wide steppe]

have fun screaming at clouds then)

[gritty hound]

I paid just as much as you, my opinion does matter

[jade otter]

The basic fact is this content wouldn’t be available to you at all if it were not for the cdlc program

[cerulean remnant]

You don't know that. Maybe you bought it on sale and he didn't

[gritty hound]

But it doesn’t need to be that way

Again, circular fallacy

[graceful willow]

Technically that's correct, if BI were dickheads. But in this business it's usually a good idea to care about your customers' experience with your product

[steady gale]

it has to be that way because there's no other way it would exist

[gritty hound]

Yes there is

[steady gale]

there is if it was made by BI

but it's not

[gritty hound]

They just buy it and release it under normal dlc channels

[steady gale]

so there isn't

[gritty hound]

You assume they can’t just copy and paste content

[wide steppe]

Indeed, they can't

[red saddle]

Including all CDLCs into the basegame is not viable

[gritty hound]

I don’t get why y’all are limiting what BI can do. Just because the program exists doesn’t mean squat

[red saddle]

do you want the Arma default installation size to be 200GB? no.

[jade otter]

I’m sure this option was considered, but the path were on is very much better for the developer, Bohemia, and the players

[wide steppe]

Also that

[jade otter]

developer gets royalties instead of one flat fee

Less of an investment on BI

[gritty hound]

Well considering this is 2035 stuff surely this wouldn’t hurt much

[jade otter]

and the players don’t have to participate

[gritty hound]

Also considering the CDLC is fairly small

[jade otter]

If they don’t want to

[red saddle]

yes this one specifically might not

[graceful willow]

Release DLCs as standalones. Gib plz

[red saddle]

But when they do it, and the next 5GB CDLC comes up, and the next, and the next, and...

[jade otter]

Why would this get special treatment in the program where others have not?

[red saddle]

exactly

[gritty hound]

Almost as if a new game would have to be released :troll:

[jade otter]

I’m sure sog or GM would like the option to increase their scope and market by being basically official

[gritty hound]

Because it is effectively an expansion on base assets

That would mesh with vanilla well from what I’ve seen

[jade otter]

This path is also less invasive on what is essentially a completed experience

That is Arma 3

other than bug fixes theyre done with the story and whatnot here

[gritty hound]

Then I suppose I’ll be skipping out on this one too.

I ain’t paying for a mod

[wide steppe]

But you're not

[steady gale]

it's not a mod, it's a CDLC

[wide steppe]

You're paying for a CDLC)

[gritty hound]

Same thing at this point

[jade otter]

what’s the difference in calling this a paid mod and the method you describe

[silk jolt]

Is that upcoming CDLC from the same who made the Dunes minicampaign?

[steady gale]

by that logic apex is a mod

[gritty hound]

No, because it was added to vanilla

[jade otter]

full circle

You can’t please everyone

this program is best for the majority players, sorry your very niche issue isn’t addressed

[sand bay]

yo im huped with new dlc

bu honestly i would like to see it as actuall part of the game

[gritty hound]

“Niche issue” I guess the base game is niche

[gritty hound]

LMAO

[sand bay]

new content is too nice

[gritty hound]

Same

What a lad

[wide steppe]

Playing on pub servers with no mods running is the definition of niche

[graceful willow]

Do you have some data to back that up? I don't think that's actually a very niche issue, but I might be wrong too... Who knows

[wide steppe]

Arma is alive because of mods and communities, so unlike most games - that isn't the majority in arma)

[gritty hound]

Not niche enough if there’s still new features being added (albeit slow)

[red saddle]

yes (Atleast the Arma 3 Dunes thing on steam is by him, assuming you mean that)

[sand bay]

"alive"

[wide steppe]

Without having any SoUrCeS I would bet money on it

[gritty hound]

Well there loads of people like me that don’t like units

[wide steppe]

And loads more that do, hence the minority is "niche"

[graceful willow]

If we had a chance to have a contrafactual [universe] where we could run an alternative model, I might bet money on it on my part 😛

[silk jolt]

Amazing! That was truely awesome

[gritty hound]

Not niche, just a minority

Very different

[wide steppe]

Sorry, English is not my first language, to me those words mean the same

[graceful willow]

I'd just like to remind that Arma has spawned three (3!) major revolutions in the global gaming industry, which I find insane for a single game series: DayZ, Life/modern day RPG and Battle Royale. All of those are/were played on public servers and not in units. My point is that we should not underestimate the power of gamemodes based on public servers

[red saddle]

Don't also forget the revolution of game footage being semi-regularly showed on TV and sold as real 😄

[jade otter]

The issue is that cdlc content can’t be used in vanilla public zeus, public zeus servers will still be offered for this cdlc

So yes it is very niche

Most people wanting to use this content will just load it into their servers or use the available public zeus servers for this cdlc

The suggested route is forcing all players to download this content that they may not even be interested in

[graceful willow]

Isn't that a circural fallacy?

[jade otter]

which would be more of an issue

[graceful willow]

That's why I'd like to see at least the expansions being changed to standalones

[jade otter]

then what’s the issue if the cdlc program is just a standalone?

that’s the point of it, vanilla players can opt out of participating at all

the argument presented is this dlc should be treated like apex tacking on more forced downloads

[serene breach]

it is entirely dependent on the cdlc imo

Vietnam dlc totally changes base game stuff, can’t follow that approach

this new one, is lore friendly and fits into the overall theme

sooo

[jade otter]

Yea but what if in theory 10 more vanilla like cdlc are added

You’re gonna sell a game that now requires double it’s vanilla size in dlc

The biggest complaints about dlc are not being able to opt out

[gritty hound]

Yeah actually, it should be that size. Arma is a performance heavy game in every aspect of the word. If people load up with hundreds of gigs of mods what’s a few more

Especially if the devs aren’t making a new game

[steady gale]

I'm pretty sure people who load up with "hundreds of gigs of mods" is a very very low percentage

[gritty hound]

You’d be surprised how many milsim-moes there are

[steady gale]

not hundreds of gigs of mods

[jade otter]

If you yourself load with 100s of gigs of mods anyway, why complain about vanilla public zeus?

[steady gale]

at 100GB of mods your game would probably barely load

[gritty hound]

Because pub Zeus is my only multiplayer experience

[prisma minnow]

Well...BI does listen to feedback on CDLCs (...to an extent). You need not look any further than what happened in the aftermath of CSLA's release.

If reception to Western Sahara becomes overwhelmingly positive and there's enough "demand"...who's to say that they might not bend the rules for it and incorporate it into vanilla.

[jade otter]

The existence of the compatibility data supersedes this tho

The problem and solution has already come and gone

People who play public zeus are probably playing the game mode since other zeus games force them to download lots of stuff

You’re just trying to force that experience on people who don’t want it

adding more and more gb of data to public zeus will only kill the playerbase

They specifically play it to not have to worry about downloads

[graceful willow]

And then there's me who'd like to play expansion and DLC stuff on public (and populated) servers...

[hoary ridge]

but adding less gb to public, and nomore new content.. it will also kill the playerbase somehow

players will get bored.

[gritty hound]

Not true

[jade otter]

ask the reason why the servers with more mods and dlc aren’t as popular?

People already like the vanilla experience as is

people wish they could opt out of apex

[gritty hound]

Many players (myself included) hate normal units because they’re so boring. Drive here, shoot 4 people, leave. No atmosphere

You have to get a rank in order to play basic roles, everyone without long range radio is left in the dark

[hoary ridge]

not everyone knows how to install mods, or aint got the money for all dlcs.

[jade otter]

So we shouldn’t force them to download more dlc if they can’t afford it?

[hoary ridge]

no, but maybe add a optional function to the launcher so they choose themself.

[gritty hound]

Ranks matter a lot to people that play higher stuff but you end up losing it when you inevitably get bored of the group

[jade otter]

They have the option to download the compatibility if they want to enjoy it that way

It’s already like that

[hoary ridge]

there was a tool for dayz mod in the past that made it optional, for everyone. let the players choose themself.

[graceful willow]

I think that either adding the expansions to the base game or letting them work as standalones could still spawn some new revolution – if not in the global gaming industry, in Armaverse at least – and generate BI a lot more sales. Lose a battle, win the war

[steady gale]

what you described is a pretty small fraction of all arma units

[jade otter]

stand-alone in what way?

because all the available dlc require heavily on base arma 3

you can’t cut it out of the picture

[hoary ridge]

its in the workshop like the mods are, and yet i had to tell alot players how and where to get the mods/workshop files

[steady gale]

if they don't know how to click "subscribe" on a workshop page then I think they might just be a lost cause anyway

[graceful willow]

That's true. So there could be some vanilla content in the expansions too. It would be mostly about the settling, maps.

[hoary ridge]

new players, start the game, choose what they see and play. they dont visit workshops..

[steady gale]

using CDLC compat data and having DLC that's integrated is pretty much exactly the same, one just requires you to go to a webpage and click a button

[gritty hound]

Every single group I’m in does this

[steady gale]

if going to a webpage and clicking a button is too much for some people then I don't know what to say

sounds like you're just in bad groups then

[gritty hound]

I left 8 others that did

[jade otter]

It already functions as standalone experiences, with the option to have them combined experiences

the only mod that tried to go standalone failed massively

[gritty hound]

Every Arma group is bad, you can’t change my mind

[graceful willow]

??

[hoary ridge]

well mods are not must have, creator dlcs are part of arma 3, and should atleast be in the launcher optional for anyone. atleast the content.

[jade otter]

If you mean like being able to just download sog PF and play it alone

not really gonna happen

And it’s been tried and failed before

You’re only taking away by making it a standalone experience, nothing is added

[graceful willow]

To me not being able to enjoy the content I've purchased in multiplayer (unlike in Arma 2) is a bigger fail

[gritty hound]

Exactly

[jade otter]

arma 2 never had the cdlc program

[gritty hound]

Drop the program, expand your mind a bit

[graceful willow]

I'll be forever salty for not really having populated servers hosting Tanoa and Livonia (and maybe the CDLC maps too)

[gritty hound]

Think outside the box about other potential solutions

[jade otter]

Your options are

1. SOG PF and every cdlc never existing
2. The program existing as it is

[gritty hound]

Not true

[jade otter]

What’s the third option? You either have cdlc or the dlc ends at contact

There’s no inbetween here

[gritty hound]

Bohemia buys the property, releases it as normal dlc

[steady gale]

"drop the program" means no more new content for A3

[graceful willow]

The CDLC program could have been (and still could be) implemented differently

[jade otter]

Bohemia isn’t interested in buying content for the base game, the cdlc program is a service to the community

[gritty hound]

I don’t care about sog or clsa, just add more vanilla 2035 for the love of god

[red saddle]

That way either the actual authors of the content get less money, or bohemia wastes money that it doesn't get back in through sales

[jade otter]

arma can’t keep being developed for all time running on monopoly bucks and dreams

It has to end somewhere

[steady gale]

also "buying" would then mean that maintaining it would be on BI's side which they can't do

[gritty hound]

You can have contractual agreements based on sales goals, those have a very full precedent

[jade otter]

Cdlc is a service to the community to get more dlc where Bohemia isn’t interested in making anymore

[gritty hound]

Again, not true

[graceful willow]

But who knows what'll be the end result? What if some mod or gamemode is created thanks to added content and it ends up being hugely popular? You need to consider the possible and indirect results too

[steady gale]

I'm sure you know a lot of about the inner workings of BI

[red saddle]

Then you're full circle back to the CDLC project.
Just that one is auto download, and the other is not.

[jade otter]

I’m sure you’re also super educated in running a development company

[hoary ridge]

wasnt the jets dlc, a dlc from a different studio?

[red saddle]

And there we are back and auto download and increasing installation size not being wanted
And there we are back at where the discussion was an hour ago

[gritty hound]

Looks like I found a sweet solution to my problem

[nimble hatch]

Can i still submit my CDLC application without a mission and/or video? strugging to find a coder

[red saddle]

to big part yes

[hoary ridge]

zero studios or something like that

[gritty hound]

So we already have precedent

[red saddle]

You can try, but the likelyhood of them saying yes is probably not high

[red saddle]

bravo zero one

[nimble hatch]

unless its more or less complete basically, and its just featurs u need access permission to make changes?

[jade otter]

Not the same, Bohemia asked a studio to develop it, not purchasing content submitted by a small fan developer

[gritty hound]

“Small fan developer” still a larger team than the rest of Arma

And they get paid

So there really isn’t much a difference

[hoary ridge]

creator dlc is a nice idea, to keep the game alive. i just wish there would be a newbie or more user friendly way in the launcher for non owners. (optional download function)

[gritty hound]

That’s literally the only benefit of CDLC

The point is that it is optional

Which isn’t ideal if you actually wanna play it with more people

[red saddle]

There is a button in the DLC section that you can click to get to the compat data

[hoary ridge]

my bad then, got all cdlcs.

[jade otter]

the benefit of cdlc is it wouldn’t exist otherwise

arma would end at contact

[gritty hound]

Again,, your view is so limited

It doesn’t “need” to be like this

Just release as normal dlc

“Oh noes, Bohemia would actually have to do something”

[wheat scaffold]

How would one be selected for trying out new DLCs and stuff?

[jade otter]

I guess Bohemia should just drop any development and budget for arma 4 and instead spend their time and money on endlessly supporting content updates on a game from 2013?

Is that the alternative idea

[gritty hound]

That’s also an idea, not one i necessarily agree with

You’re being obtuse on purpose

[jade otter]

The point is the cdlc program requires extremely minimal resources dedicated to it

It’s only limited by the passion of the community for arma

[gritty hound]

Just drop their free to play cash grab, boom, more resources

[jade otter]

free to play cash grab? You’ve really lost me on that

[hoary ridge]

once every year a new normal dlc, would do. some servers like for example wasteland and/or life welcome new content.

[gritty hound]

Vigor

[red saddle]

People who are always around and well known usually go first, then people in past beta tests (who were invited by people who were already in)
so all on "I know that guy, he's good, lets invite him" basis, basically

[wheat scaffold]

Ah

[jade otter]

Once a year dlc is not as easy as you think it is, again Bohemia wants to be done with arma 3 so they can prepare for arma 4

[jade otter]

Those development teams aren’t related as far as I know

[gritty hound]

Never once has that sentiment been expressed

In fact it’s kinda the exact opposite

[jade otter]

Perhaps leaving arma 3 with a skeleton crew for bug fixes is a huge sentiment

[gritty hound]

Still taking money for a cash grab rather than their flagship title

!arma4

[deep crag]

For all official information related to Arma 4, see https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_4.

[gritty hound]

Read and despair

[jade otter]

The enfusion engine

You know

What arma 4 will be on

Resources are focused on that

[gritty hound]

Oh wowie they have an engine!! That’s a big step but dev or even announcement is so far away

[jade otter]

an entirely new engine is a massive step, arma 3 is running on an upgraded version of the engine from the original games

[hoary ridge]

the engine aint being made by those devs which make models and skins?

[jade otter]

yes but they’re clearly working on something judging by the teasers Bohemia puts out

[hoary ridge]

dayz?

they just got more games running

[red saddle]

If you are just here to flame/troll, then I suggest you better leave..

[gritty hound]

Who said I was?

[graceful willow]

Well, BI did register the "Arma Reforger" trademark both in EU and US already

[cerulean remnant]

This seems a bit off topic now

[red saddle]

yes very much

[graceful willow]

Oh, I'm still on creator DLC channel. Oopsie, soz 😄

[jade otter]

Far off topic, the point is there’s no room left for devs to just sit making content on arma 3 till times end

That’s where the cdlc program enters

Which is just a nice thing for the community

[gritty hound]

But it doesn’t need to be the way it is

I would pay twice the price for vanilla assets

[red saddle]

I don't think discussing in circles for about 2 hours now will get much closer to the goal 😉

[gritty hound]

Better than nothing

[jade otter]

I’ll just concede and say it’s much smarter to keep developing a game from 2013 into bankruptcy so you can have more assets for vanilla zeus

[gritty hound]

!arma4 I thought I already told you this

!arma4

[nimble hatch]

Speculation is like fill an empty void that never gets filled, or feeding the troll expecting the troll to get full from it, and then get full of its own supply, its just not going to happen

[gritty hound]

What a bummer

Guess I’ll skip this one too

[wide steppe]

deja vu

[cerulean remnant]

And that's fine

[jade otter]

Just be glad you aren’t forced to download it 😆

[gritty hound]

I wish I was

[nimble hatch]

water the plant you want to see grow, whether its CDLC, or ARMA 4, yes you can water both plants, but, considering ARMA 4, is, lets say, is an oak tree, and the CDLCs are like an almond tree, the almond tree being alot smaller, dont water the big plant so much you suffocate its roots with water, but keep the supply each requires, flowing steadily, we the people could be seen as the water

[graceful willow]

Damn poets!

[wraith sleet]

so

are the stories of these CDLCs canon to the armaverse?

[nimble hatch]

on the same token, let the CDLC get some attention/rays of light while it grows, because, once the oak tree is too big, the small tree will be in the shadow, such is the way

[wraith sleet]

I dont think GM is since I believe that depicts ww3? im not sure since I dont own it.

But I feel like W. Sahara could be canon

not sure about PF or CSLA

[gritty hound]

Almonds grow on trees?

[nimble hatch]

googole

[grand sequoia]

Arma 4 is still 2-4 years out probably.

And probably another 2-3 years until it gets as good as Arma 3 with all the dlc.

[solemn pelican]

We all know arma 3 is alive because of mods

Something other game makers should take note of

[prime hollow]

True

[still sky]

Unfortunately due to cdlcs some potential mods become paywalled while other also high quality ones have no legal way of monetizing their work.
Given the fact most of cdlcs rely heavily on old A2+A3 assets the direction A3 modding is going is not healthy

[somber ice]

Only CSLA and now the new Western Sahara cDLC do that currently partially. WS only uses A2 assets on the map IIRC, which are improved see the text from Lexx, the lead I think of the WS cDLC:
"We have updated the A2 buildings with tweaked textures, new doors, etc. to make them stand out more. It pains me that we had to use old models as base in the first place, but sadly making completely new buildings is quite expensive and out of scope for most cdlc teams." (From Reddit)

GM and S.O.G have done it differently (S.O.G does use some reused assets on their Map, but thats it and they are rextextured etc.)

[still sky]

and GM costs 23$
50% cut to BI makes the price look like a new game you could buy.
I know I may be in minority here in discord, but if you look at the online servers status in A3, we know CDLCs are not doing anything for community. Maps are not used, CDLC assets are not used. People refuse to play them, server owners don't host them

[jade otter]

It’s also not potential mods becoming paywalled, developers are spending money to create cdlc because they know they’ll get paid back for it in sales

[somber ice]

Maps are not used, CDLC assets are not used.
S.O.G would like to have a word with you, and GM too. (While GM is not being used that often in Public MP, it is being used by a lot of groups in the private sector)

[jade otter]

The cdlc only exist because of the incentive of getting paid for their work

Also it’s really rude to expect this level of quality for free

They just wouldn’t exist without rewarding developers for their labor

[still sky]

I don't expect anything for free. I think it's really not helping pricing some dlcs as brand new games/DLCs, it also doesn't help having no market for modders to release their work, cdlc and 50% cut is not a reliable way and BI is not some1 to be taken example of.

Good example is Unreal marketplace. Anyone can release, yet all paid content is still heavily moderated to meet quality criterias.

[jade otter]

I don’t understand no market for modders to release their work, all the cdlc so far have been developed by those with a heavy presence in the modding community?

I mean SOG PF was the outlet for a few Unsung devs

I’ve been playing the maps from the GM devs for years

CSLA was an arma 2 mod originally

and now West Sahara is from a number of very well known faces

[still sky]

are you trying to tell that only a few very well known faces who had previously released free content can monetize their work? Well ok, that has nothing to do with my words. Anywy g2g, was my 2 cents on the matter, hope bi won't be trying to sit on that chair with their new titles.

[somber ice]

They can't monetise work, which has been released already. But as Dedmen states, everybody can apply to make a CDLC.

[red saddle]

are you trying to tell that only a few very well known faces who had previously released free content can monetize their work?
Anyone can apply to make a CDLC, no need to have made previous free content nor to be well known

[jade otter]

I’m just arguing that modders are using this as an outlet, not saying you have to be well known

You can’t just remove something off the workshop and sell something that was previously free

[still sky]

Yep I know all that, now if only there was an actual marketplace, and not a clunky cdlc policy with unknown criterias. I hope there will be in future. Like I said, UE marketplace is a great example. +With an honest cut, which doesn't drive insane prices.
Personally, I bought GM but never going to buy any more cdlcs due to 0 chance playing with purchaised content online.

[safe ether]

hey, I have a question - at what point is a project submitted for a cDLC proposal? Does it have to be far into development or does the idea and scope need to be proposed and greenlit before starting?

[sinful cape]

it can happen if you have a really solid idea, documentation, etc. but generally it's best to already have a prototype to show

[dim narwhal]

Will there be any more CDLCs after WS?

[loud apex]

According to the « Meet Joris » article published on June 9 by Bohemia Interactive (https://www.bohemia.net/blog/meet-joris), at the question « Can we expect more C(reator)DLC to come ? » from David K. the answer was « We should be very close to releasing CSLA Iron Curtain, so that Creator DLC will join Global Mobilization - Cold War Germany and S.O.G. Prairie Fire in the lineup. There are more CDLC in various phases of the program, from pitch phase to being in production. However, we deliberately don't share specifics until we and the third-party developer feel relatively certain a project is nearer to release. ».
So there will probably be other CDLCs after WS.

[knotty ore]

😱

[untold elm]

I hope so. I’ve been really impressed so far. GM and SOG got me back into Arma, and I would have paid for either as a standalone, as we had to with Iron Front in the A2 days. My hope is that we see more cooperation and asset sharing - at least within the 3 Cold War Teams. The Crossover DLC mod on the workshop is a fantastic initiative and I hope people are paying attention - though I understand CDLC teams may not know what other teams are working on and some work will be replicated. Ideally more cooperation allows for CDLC to go in really interesting directions, and I think a CDLC using the 2035 setting is a good sign.

[long sail]

yes thats a thing. to be honest i wouldnt have thought of western sahara to need a dlc. its also kinda strange to get 2 cold war dlcs imo but yeah gm and sog are so frickin awesome i love it

[steady ravine]

would love to get a Naval cDLC

[long sail]

the problem with that is that there is basically no real focus on any of that in the whole game yet. not saying that would be bad. but then you would need a lot of new stuff imo. like:
planes that can land on water, maybe some aircraftcarrier with full interior and all of that. a whole bunch of new ship types since there is kind of nothing about this yet. and a map that really supports that warfare.
the point is that in history battles have most likely been fought on land if there was any land nearby to fight over. so in order to not to do that you would basically need a map without any islands but just water and maybe oilrigs or anything. guess thats all a hard thing to make when it has to look good

[ebon sedge]

They're not looking at making it open source, but rather allowing the community to take part in the development of certain areas (afaik)

big difference between fully open source and only certain parts

[untold elm]

That HAFM mod did some really interesting stuff with naval systems, but I guess the big mods like ACE, CUP and RHS didn’t approach them, nor any CDLCs to my knowledge. Like Pook’s SAM, EW, ECM systems, it seems like another example of great systems being siloed by the compartmentalized nature of the modding community. The shared financial benefit of working together on CDLC presents an opportunity to encourage people to cooperate that otherwise wouldn’t and I think represents a chance to combine a lot of interesting ideas and systems that right now everybody is keeping to themselves in self-contained passion projects.

[random crane]

you can count the number of mods with big ships on the fingers of one hand probably, maybe you like them a lot but as someone who has to put in the work it doesnt make much sense to spend tons of time on an asset that is going to be used once and then forgotten

i did it for cup with the anzac frigate just to see what the engine could handle, i used it maybe twice and never again, and i dont see people talking about it ever so it should tell you there's just no interest in such things

big ships as mobile floating bases are enough for arma

like the vanilla destroyer/carrier

[hardy drum]

I hope to see some more PMC scenarios for the next CDLC for multiplayer. Personally I like to play the role of a Private Military Contractor more than anything

Also this is just me but 4 players donʻt seem like enough for the new scenario and gamemode

[gritty hound]

I have hafm, there’s literally only 3 boats in the mod

[raven urchin]

Pretty sure theres more

Also theres like 4 mods

[gritty hound]

But the others only add helis or marines

[grand sequoia]

Do any of the cdlc assets that are created get benchmarked by BIS ?

[knotty ore]

benchmarked how?

[grand sequoia]

Like the benchmark chart on the simple object wiki. By placing 400 of those objects around or in it's fov I think.

[knotty ore]

dont think they do.

but on the other hand maybe the do

50/50

is there a specific reason you ask?

[hardy drum]

Anyone know when Western Sahara is coming out? Or atleast a good estimate?

[ebon sedge]

Q4 2021 iirc

[hardy drum]

Pretty damn close then eh?

[raven urchin]

Id say 3 weeks

2 weeks of beta testing

1 week on top for bug fixes

Assuming no major issues crop up

[hardy drum]

Hope so, playing as a PMC would be amazing honestly

Although I do wish they increased player cap

[raven urchin]

I think 6 would be fair

[hardy drum]

Or 8

[raven urchin]

Youre already gonna roll every mission with 6 lol

[grand sequoia]

I'm just wondering because bis always said that modded content is never as optimized as their content. And now they are publishing modded content. I mean I have been amazed by the sog maps and how performant they are so I'm wondering if bis helped with that.

I also tried creating my own benchmark scenario in VR. But after one run of spawning 400 simulated objects and then deleting them. My frame rate doesn't go back up to it's original values. So you have to start thinking further like rotating missions and other things. So I'm just wondering what tools are being used for optimization of objects.

[knotty ore]

Where has such things been said?

Im not aware of such benchmarking being done in QA but we did quite a lot of optimization on changes towards better performance on our own for CamLaoNam and its assets. There is no magic behind it though and no special tools make stuff "optimized". Mainly it focuses on good mesh control to keep polycount in check and good texture/material design to keep section count down and good technical lods that dont cause extra strain on the simulation engine.

That said simpleObject benchmark does not really tell me much at all and is not really useful for terrain making or optimization as terrain objects still behave differently and have different properties than simple objects.

for me it merely shows that if you want to populate a mission with props, simple objects are usually the best performing option

and simple object has become a thing only very recently too so anything built before it has become an config option cant really be compared with it when you consider older community content

[grand sequoia]

i'm referring to this bar chart https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Arma_3:_Simple_Objects#Performance
I don't think they tested 3000 objects manually. I did not know map objects behaved differently. I mean i have done the create a map tutorial but have no real experience with map creation and it's objects.

Could a benchmark not help determine what objects are already good enough and which ones could use some more work? For example i saw generalodst showing a map in progress that had a bunch people working on new Mombasa map(a city in the halo universe). And the fps was bad and it made me wonder what objects could be such a drag on performance. Out of my simple testing it already appears like Skyline Tower (Part A) class "Land_J_Tower_a_2". IS really badly optimized just trying to spawn 400 super simple objects reduces my frame rate to 3fps from 200fps in a VR space.

So i feel like there might be some need for benchmarking.

[knotty ore]

Nowhere in the text is there mention about mods. so I dont know where you get your statements.

Anyway there is a bit of truth in that and mods having sometimes more issues in them than vanilla content due to different levels of maker experience and dedication to fixing and figuring out problems. Your statement though expects all mods to be of "poor quality" which they are not and that same applies to the "published modded content". Which I do kinda take offence a bit.

The simple object benchmark is more a mission maker tool than anything else. I dont know what skyline tower is but I've seen pics of tall things in the halo maps so I assume its part of something like that. And if it already behaves poorly on the map the simple object benchmark cant really tell anything useful. The tower would not be possible to turn into a simple object anyway and there would be nearly no gain from it as it is a house simulation type object. The object is likely just too big or has too many parts or combination of many other wrong things.

There simply is no magic "optimization" to be done to make everything work great.

[grand sequoia]

Apologies, if you feel attacked it was not my intention. I should have worded it better. The only reference i have is dyslexie who has said something like this in one of his videos can't remember which one.

The object i'm referencing to has to many parts. So a benchmark would show that they might want to take a second look to decrease the amount of parts.

[knotty ore]

its a very specific case with probably far more complex reasons than you think.

[random crane]

most modders dont really care, or dont know, about optimizing their content, but there's nothing magical behind it

often times modders are just happy to have their stuff in game working semi-decently and thats the end of that

[red saddle]

All my models are high poly lod0 only :D
That's sufficient for my needs 🛃

[nimble hatch]

god dang been looking for a coder now for around 3 months, posted the job everywhere
@ #creators_recruiting message

[devout turtle]

Not easy to find

[sweet edge]

would be much easier to outsource another company for this, but it's much more money to invest

[nimble hatch]

100% to eggbeast and honger, There is one benefit to the waiting, each day im learning a little more on code, be it hands on, a course, or a video, trying to not make the time waiting futile, heck, at this rate i might get the modpack working myself, and fill my own job vacancy 😢 😂
https://tenor.com/view/raised-eyebrows-good-jocko-willink-gif-5513484

[grand sequoia]

Your job post requires c++ knowledge. That is not a easy language. I'm also wondering where does c++ get programmed in Arma ? I know it uses c++ configs but i can't really think of code examples or any bis wiki about this.

[red saddle]

I know it uses c++ configs
not really, its just similar-ish but actually not at all
besides having the same class keyword and : thing, thats really all there is

[jade otter]

Arma uses custom a language that’s kinda like a C type

But it’s definitely not C++

[sinful cape]

good point. the job post makes me think that someone is needed who can write custom dll's and do code injections and stuff :>

[red saddle]

And its a Backend job even.
I'd call Arma Extensions "Frontend" , so it must be something more deeply involved

[nimble hatch]

Do you fit the job requirements by chance?

[grand sequoia]

No, i looked at it and was curious where the c++ requirement comes from ?
It seems like other cdlc are all using sqf and no other programming code.
Like Lexx said are you sure you need a c++ programmer for this ?

[nimble hatch]

Who knows

[grand sequoia]

Look at the first #job-vacancies of the sog discord. The description might be closer to what you are looking for.

[nimble hatch]

@devout turtle hey how long did it take you to fill that programmer role on your SOG discord by chance please?

Ok, so basically i need someone who can help me put the mod together, then another to program some stuff, so

1. what is the job title of the guy who will put the mod together?
2. Back end Programmer is back end programmer AFAIK, might just be a scripter, but too early to know

[devout turtle]

1. Encoder

2. Scripter

Very different skillset and area of interest

For encoders we have me apollo helion and crash, pretty much

We teach each other a lot as we go along

[grand sequoia]

Can encoders be payed ?

isn't that using arma tools ? unless you are cdlc programmer. Which you are.

[devout turtle]

Crash handles buildings helion weapons and statics apollo vehicles and i do characters and vehicles (but not as well as apollo who is a master of his craft)

I also do base config setup (usually with fucked up UBC errors lol)

And a lot of the lore and naming stuff

You kinda need a guy who is into the lore of your world to do the naming and descriptions

[red saddle]

If you are a approved CDLC you already got a "license" to make a paid product using Arma tools.

[devout turtle]

I wont let anyone else write displaynames etc as they have to be just-so

And uniform

In the early days we had chair in the team whos a top shelf encoder too

We had londo for a while too, who’s quite accomplished. Considering a team size of 125 having 5 solid encoders shows how rare these guys actually are

Id give my left nut to clone apollo

For scripting we have UI programmers, function devs, mission makers and feature devs

And a few guys who work on dlls and tools

We did get a few part time programmers join us which has been good

There are a few other encoders about like Evrik and da12thmonkey maybe giallustio and a few CUP and ACE guys

But not too many more experienced in asset importing, configging and animating

I trained 5 apprentices over 6 months leading up to our dlc team forming but sadly they all buggered off before the contract was signed

An hour a week each and all wasted

Sad really

Its not that hard to learn but there is a lot to develop

[grand sequoia]

I admire your perseverance.

[devout turtle]

Animationsources, inheritance, workflows, and something you dont do a lot of as a modding encoder - actual asset design

Our encoders work very closely with the art team to help design the asset for the engine. A lot of our artists have very little understanding of the arma engine or what is needed to get their creations into game - so encoders hold their hands to ensure that each lod (cargo, shadow, geo etc) is well designed and optimised, including policing poly and section counts, and advising on texturing and decals planning and also planning animations.

So encoding isnt a solo task its about pairing with artists and designing from the first proto right through to gold

Its great fun and sadly i dont have a lot of time for it due to all the sodding admin needed for a dlc lol

When i get back after this weekends surfing i’ll be encoding solidly for the next month and im looking forward to it like a fat man invited to a banquet

[pastel pendant]

yo, just saying, in case anyone with an idea is reading, i would surely buy a map pack cdlc

[devout turtle]

I think bohemia would want something more substantial than terrains alone

[nimble hatch]

eggbeast with them oneliners 😂

[devout turtle]

Making a lot of new buildings for terrains would be very cool but also costly in time and effort

[pastel pendant]

a terrian is the empty piece of paper where you put your stories in it

1 or 3 maps wouldnt be much

[nimble hatch]

and costly in regards to cost* also hehe

[pastel pendant]

but a good quantity of very well made maps, idk, personally i would be satisfied

[devout turtle]

We revamped over 1700 assets for our terrain and made about 300 new

Took 2.5 years

[grand sequoia]

There are enough maps out there. I don't know what exactly you would be looking for.
You could also try and make one with all the existing assets there are.

[devout turtle]

If we’d made those 1700 objects new we’d still be working on it when arma 3 is free to play and we’re all waiting for arma 5 to come out

[pastel pendant]

oooh, i could explain a bit of what would be interesting in my eyes, but it would serve no purpose if the idea is not wanted 😅

[nimble hatch]

theres no harm in throwing an idea up in the air

[devout turtle]

Indeed

[pastel pendant]

but in basic terms, asian maps (of regions like japan or korea in semi modern settings) would be a dream coming true

same for south american stuff that is not jungle and american maps (for those nice red dawn missions)

its more about making interesting maps of places not made before in arma

as you two mentioned, its quite an effort to create specific assets for such, which imo totally justifies charging the value for a map pack

[grand sequoia]

don't the two Vietnam maps scratch your itch a little bit ?

[devout turtle]

Nepal would be a cool terrain

[pastel pendant]

not much, as vietnam during the cold war looked fairly rural and underdeveloped

i would really like to see something based in the region of hokkaido in japan, that would be a battlefield of great proportions in case the soviets attacked japan

the architecture there is really specific and so are the ways towns are structured

[pastel pendant]

nepal or the kashemir would be incredible

the options are infinite, one thing this planet doesnt lack are interesting places

[random crane]

terrain making in arma is probably one of the hardest things to do, the tools are hard to learn and use and there's a ton of hidden knowledge

[pastel pendant]

yup

which is why i wouldnt be opposed to paying for a terrain pack

[random crane]

buildings are just a matter of getting the art done, if you can do weapons or vehicles its more or less the same, with a few different bits

[pastel pendant]

i know there are some community members who managed to make beautiful terrains

[devout turtle]

Rhodesia / zimbabwe would be cool - scrubland / bush and savannah

[pastel pendant]

and regarding sog maps... no dissing or anything, but vietnam jungle maps have been presented before in other mods, so its not an uncharted ambient

which is why IN MY CASE the vietnam maps didnt scratched my itch

what caught my attention in them were the urban areas, i really like Hue, vietnam urban combat is my favorite subject in the war

but... red earth and thick jungle.... i had my share of it

[devout turtle]

Vietnam has a huge range of biomes - snowy mountains, white sand beaches, sprawling swamps, scrubby clay highlands, steaming triple canopy jungle and moody rainy ravines and mountains

[pastel pendant]

i dont doubt that

[devout turtle]

We could make maps of nam for a decade and not run out of original ideas to create

[pastel pendant]

keh sahn is a beatifull map that blew my mind in some of the views in some areas of it

[devout turtle]

Its a magical country

Well Temppa is a terrain god

[pastel pendant]

i believe you're quite aware of real fake guns vietnam trip videos?

[pastel pendant]

ayo temppa, make a map pack and then come to brazil pls!!

[devout turtle]

I am still finding new things that icebreakr or goat or mike or razorback (or dl++ or holo or hog) placed down on cam lao nam, new areas ive never walked through before

Easter eggs or just really cool viewpoints or interesting rock formations or secret caves etc

It’ll probably take me another year of playing on it to have seen everything

I dont feel the same desire to explore Tanoa or Altis

[pastel pendant]

tanoa is still impressing me today

[devout turtle]

Is Stratis the big one?

[pastel pendant]

no, stratis is the little boy one

altis is the main island

[devout turtle]

Ah well when alpha came out i loved exploring stratis

But soon decided that mediterranean (or Fijian) holiday resorts are not as compelling for me as say Khe Sanh combat base or St Mere Eglise or even the Gallipoli peninsula or the Choson Reservoir or Stalingrad or the Somme

I like to play arma with a story and a feeling of history

[pastel pendant]

i'd say the beauty in it is what we see, you have a different view than i do regarding the fijian/mediterranean setting, its not something i'd say its open to debate but i very much like to see other people's point of view in it

[devout turtle]

A Tibetan guerilla army fighting the PLA would be cool though for a fantasy war

Rhodesia or colombia or nicaragua would be cool

Korea in the 50s for sure

We added a lot of wartime features to hanoi - craters and propaganda posters and sandbagged shelters - and it really made it feel different - like a wartime scene more than a holiday destination

Id like to see Tanoa and Altis redux with added destruction and craters and abandoned battlefields

[pastel pendant]

that is something that (depending on the map) i'm not a fan of, the way i see it imposes conflict scenarios only

[devout turtle]

They feel too pristine to me, just a personal pref ofc

[pastel pendant]

understandable, i preffer the prestine maps

[devout turtle]

I loved isla duala when ice made that many years ago - the story of the molatians and the border fence and the sense of impending battle it created

[pastel pendant]

that's is one of the few instances where i can agree the imposed conflict is acceptable for me

but in maps like weferlingen, tanoa... even altis, conflict is not an obligation, its an option

[devout turtle]

I play arma as a wargame exclusively so yeah im looking for immersive battlefields

I get that not everyone wants that though

[sinful cape]

hm. i play them for fun :p

i really wish we would get more crazy terrains, but it's just so damn expensive to develop.

[pastel pendant]

i play for the limitless scenarios (combat being most of them), but some times i go into scenarios where a battlefield isnt part of them

[devout turtle]

The 100m and 200m cliff faces HG developed for sog were pretty radical

We were all a bit sceptical that they would work

Makes for some great mountains

The riverbank objects developed by DL also were very cool

As previously arma rivers were always just smooth slopes

There are so many things on the wishlist for next gen eh?

[pastel pendant]

yup

personally my number 1 item is a "accessible" map editor

[jade otter]

Everything on the modding end needs to be way more accessible

I’m sure Bohemia is gonna put some big effort into having easy to use modding tools

I wouldn’t be surprised if things like retextures could be done with little to no effort or previous knowledge

[silk jolt]

Wasn't there somewhere an interview on enfusion and how on of their points was built-in modability?

Ah, it's the wikitext:

Enfusion is announced to allow far more flexibility and scalability than Real Virtuality, specifically through modding with the availability of extensive development tools and ability for modders to create their own plugins for Enfusion. Furthermore, Enfusion would also allow modders to interact with the games' core features and mechanics.

[jade otter]

Yea exactly, very excited for us to laugh about how hard modding arma use to be 😂

[silk jolt]

We'll see. Sounds quite ambitious. It surely is not easy to do and guarantee still stability and performance. And as the text states the graphics part is finished (or at least useable) since 2018.

[grand sequoia]

Aka we don't think we have the time or money to develop all the tools. So we leave it up to the community to fill the gaps. Hopefully those can be monetized. Or at least duplicate tools might be created to override the eula.

[uncut meadow]

Not necessarily, it sounds more like they are taking an approach similar to unity and unreal in regards to plugins and possibly ditching o2, relying solely on external modeling programs.

That would be amazing especially if texture conversion is done and tweakable "ingame" and in realtime

A bit of but that is what I'm hoping for most, graphics are nice and all but it's the versatility of those tools that get me excited.

[nimble hatch]

Can someone tell me what you call someone who creates the configs and puts the modpack together please

[sinful cape]

encoders

[nimble hatch]

so whats the technical difference between a programmer, an encoder, and coder?

[sinful cape]

hmm encoding isn't really programming. it's "just" data management, i guess?

[knotty ore]

It's very accessible. Just takes some effort to learn how to use. 😅

I mean compared to many other games Arma modding offers exponential possibilities with how much one can do.

But the caveat is that you can't make modding in that deep level super simple.

[random crane]

i found it very prone to breaking 😦

[devout turtle]

@nimble hatch maybe you missed this explanation #creator_dlc_discussion message

[grand sequoia]

I think he is a bit overwhelmed by all the new info. Making everything more nuanced.

[wraith sleet]

I just watched a report on the first Gulf War 👌and thought it would be so great to have a dlc on Operation Desert Storm with the quality and content of the Global Mobilization and Sog Prairie Fire dlc's. I'd be willing to pay a lot of money for this dlc🙏🙏💶💶💶😃

[devout turtle]

We had the honour to play Bright Light from the sog campaign with Jason Lilley who drove the second humvee in the real Generation Kill before it was dramatised on HBO

Just a bit of a crossover from vietnam to GW1

A top quality AH1Z and F16 would be very cool opposed by Mi24 and Su22

[prime hollow]

choccy Chip drip all day

[nimble hatch]

@devout turtle any of these guys available for encoding, by chance?

[devout turtle]

Not likely

[nimble hatch]

are they contracted to you or free of your contract?