ip_rights_violations

[twin crane]

Github

@manic laurel is there a channel directly for reporting bugs like this?

Because I’ve got a long list of bugs from 1.3

Including the fact polylines can no longer generate walls

[manic laurel]

https://feedback.bistudio.com/ would be the place

[manic laurel]

that one is known, see #enfusion_terrain 🙂

[twin crane]

^gotcha

[hollow dagger]

does this page look sketchy to anyone else?

https://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Artists/3d_molier-International?page_num=2

just such a wide range of very high quality assets... maybe it's a real team that is very good.idk

[rustic copper]

A quick scan through the models they have and looks ok to me. The prices seem realistic and fit the license (editorial only, so not allowed in games!).

Pretty sure if you contact the seller for a license to be used in an Arma mod the price will be at least 10x of what's displayed there 😉

[hollow dagger]

Ahhh see the licensing is the catch there I guess. That is kinda crazy they have all of those models in their library. They are sitting on a gold mine lol

[faint nacelle]

game companies etc can still buy those with different licensing by contacting the author

the listing could be considered a catalogue

[lilac venture]

@midnight compass

[rancid pine]

report it to the associated email

[lilac venture]

it was removed

[mossy zealot]

Are these not RHS assets ? https://www.cgtrader.com/designers/warden1#reviews

[pliant jolt]

Warden is an RHS contributor

[faint nacelle]

can be seen on the RHS homepage

[mossy zealot]

Thanks

[twin crane]

What a beautiful day today. Hmm

Let’s start it with…

Something real.

Only thing real about project realism is the real assets stolen from WoT/War thunder

https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/64C40A0D4CC5E739

And im sure we should talk about this one

https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/64DAEB01046080B7-FV4034Challenger2MBT

Do people do any reasearch on their models anymore?

I swear it’s like once in a blue moon someone actually takes the time to ensure they aren’t using ripped assets

Challenger is debatable looks like a modification to hide it but the T-90 is dead giveaway

The specific red fire extinguishers really sell it on the fact

[stable dirge]

compare the meshes instead of just working off of eye, t90 is identical to the war thunder model but still gotta be sure beyond a reasonable doubt

i was gonna report it but didn’t wanna spend time sourcing the WT model

[terse current]

Retopo is a thing.

[stable dirge]

if they didn’t even visually change the model the odds they retopo’d it are very low

[terse current]

Right... These are very clearly ripped and modified models to me.
I don't know if they know they're ripped or not. I do know the war thunder tank models are commonly sold on asset stores.

There are things that you don't get similar when you 3d model something from the ground up. Such as the bolt exact rotation and placement on the AH64 case. These nuances are present on both of these.

It's also a difficult sale that you can 3d model vehicles like this but can't texture them beyond what they are.

But that's speculation.

[stable dirge]

fully agreed

just best to cover as many bases

[spice owl]

thats not stolen i paid for the t90

you guys want proof

[faint nacelle]

well it is also possible you got scammed to buy stolen model. it would not be first time

[spice owl]

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/military/military-vehicle/t-90a-f0cdf799-40b3-4ca1-a30e-995aef7f5e59

its not stolen

an doesnt even look like the war thunder model so i dont know how you guys come up with that

look man there diffrent models

i have the war thunder models im using for refrences for parts i can tell you there diffrent

[faint nacelle]

it is suspiciously cheap for game high quality ready asset.

[faint nacelle]

we dont tolerate that kind of stuff

[spice owl]

dont tolereate it then my models not stolen you cant just say that without no proof

[twin crane]

Lmao it’s so obvious

Yes just because you payed for a model doesn’t mean it’s not ripped

[spice owl]

jelouse

[twin crane]

$29 for 500 poly war thunder model

[spice owl]

you are clearly stupid

[twin crane]

I’m not jealous of violating Bohemia interactives ToS and the model holders rights

[spice owl]

becouse there diffrent

[twin crane]

You’re openly admitting to owning ripped assets

🤷‍♂️

https://tenor.com/view/chess-gif-24157431

[spice owl]

yh i have a war thunder t90 that was giving to me but its not the same as my t90 i paid for

theres not one peice of it thats from there so proof what your saying

[twin crane]

Hmm idk I think the guy with the ripped assets should do some comparing

[spice owl]

your weird mate

its lit a diffrent tank

go buy it yourself an prove it

[twin crane]

I don’t buy ripped assets sorry

[spice owl]

whats ripped tho

[twin crane]

I’ll find the original model and owner if I have to to prove my point but someone selling 6 tanks on their account for $29 each with crazy amounts of detail and polys

You’re asking to be scammed

[spice owl]

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/tank-t-90a-c9a5bbaf23ad47ad90586395629a2d1c

this is the only other post your gunner find on it

he even states he has it up for sale on his george acount on cgtrader

read the comments on that sketchfab

a tank that high poly with no interior and you say its ripped from war thunder, your joking

[twin crane]

You’ve never played war thunder then

Because you don’t know how they handle interiors

[faint nacelle]

Anyway. @twin crane you can hit up gaijin legal email with the info

they got to do the verification

[twin crane]

I’ll have my guy send it.

But even in the sketchfab comments people are saying the same thing “Reminds me of war thunder” @spice owl

Also get out of my DMs

[spice owl]

im asking for proof of what your acusing me of

[twin crane]

I’ll run it by gaijin no worries

I’m not the one with ripped models 🙃

[spice owl]

prove it im sure its not ripped but you cant prove it or the othe 2 cant either so your telling me you guys are jealus or somehting

[twin crane]

Jealous of what lol

[spice owl]

i dont know mabe a nice t90 for soo cheap

[twin crane]

I can throw together a tank in 3 hours I’m not jealous of anything

[vagrant ore]

excuse me?

have you ever seen the war thunder challenger? its 300k pollys with a terrible interior. ours is sub 60k pollys, interior fully modeled...

[terse current]

Who modeled it?

[vagrant ore]

happy to answer any questions in dms since this isnt needed in this chat since it has nothing to do with ip rights.

[terse current]

The question directly relates to IP rights.

[vagrant ore]

thats for bi to investigate. im not gonna fill this chat with shit.

[terse current]

Not to be content police or anything but this isn't behavior reflective of innocence or negligence.

[vagrant ore]

as i said i can chat about it in dms further

ill take it as a compliment though that you think my challenger is a ripped asset lol

[terse current]

So you modeled it?

[vagrant ore]

no. i didnt say that did i

[terse current]

That is what this implies. Since the discussion is the model itself.

[vagrant ore]

well comparing it to wt is a compliment regardless who modeled it

if you care so much and want to know about the model dm me. im not gonna fill up this chat.

[twin crane]

This is the place to discuss these matter hence why this chat is always a mess

Lol

This also provides staff in here insights on potential and or active violations

Everything falls back on bohemias legal especially stolen assets that’s why it’s our jobs as modders to ensure we correctly follow ToS

[vagrant ore]

but your incorrectly assuming without any evidence bro, quite funny.

[twin crane]

No worries @spice owl email and attached evidence is sent to gaijin

I’ll let them handle it from here and you’ll get your answer

[vagrant ore]

same way i saw people tryna say the wcs apache is from wt with clearly different meshes, scalling and quality

[twin crane]

Anyone can smack something out of shape with a hammer and splash paint on it.

some things do add up

[vagrant ore]

but your acting so confident without compsring meshes [ wireframe meshes ] side by side

[wet cairn]

Do you actually have empirical evidence or are you just eyeballing it? The way you are going about this in this chat, assuming people are guilty without definitive proof, is wrong.

[vagrant ore]

i get where your coming from, no hostility from me towards you as ive done this same thing before as i respect the TOS. but without actual evidince i find this slightly laughable

ive reported violations myself. im not stupid enough to break tos.

[wet cairn]

CGTrader is a cesspit of stolen models and shit, so being suspicious is fine -- but you're genuinely just coming in here shooting first and not even giving people a chance to defend themselves

[vagrant ore]

i spend many hours reasearching any models i buy or plan to buy.

cg trader can be a trap sometimes

same with turbosquid and fab

[vagrant ore]

literally didnt even know about this to defend myself till turd msg me lol

[twin crane]

To be fair I fire the warning shots the arguments come next

[spice owl]

you need proof with this kind of shit

[twin crane]

The usual as any sane human would react the same way

[twin crane]

Gaijin has it I will give you the answer they provide

[vagrant ore]

i can go and compare it wth the wt mesh rn lol

[wet cairn]

If you're genuinely concerned email the legal departments and leave it at that. Your approach to this screams more that you just want to blast people in a public forum, not that you actually care about the legal rights of those models being represented.

[vagrant ore]

pretty sure i have the wireframe pic on my phone

[twin crane]

Both of claiming you have ripped models is just not helping

Lol

[vagrant ore]

i can view the wt wireframe on sketchfab bro...

[spice owl]

i paid for mine an did research on it, so if it turns out ripped then i will take it down, simple

[terse current]

The T90 is definitely ripped.

You don't need comparisons for that lil bro.

[vagrant ore]

wt mesh

our mesh

sorry bro, not wt

wt is 300k polly, ours over 500k

you were so confidently wrong.

[terse current]

The idea that retopo, sellers altering things prior to selling, and kitbashing not existing to you is laughable.

[twin crane]

^

[vagrant ore]

i model myself. u can tell its not a retopo

[terse current]

Looking at those two side by side like that tells me with confidence that model was ripped from war thunder.

[vagrant ore]

look at the scale difference on certain parts

[terse current]

That means nothing.

[wet cairn]

Again, do you actually have evidence that it's ripped?

[terse current]

Homie just posted it.

[vagrant ore]

since turd bought it he should be protected by cg trader for a refund or someshit if it turns out to be ripped, but at the most its probs a close copy using the wt as a reference

[wet cairn]

You still haven't proven anything

[terse current]

If grabbing an item using the L key and scaling it suddenly makes something not ripped I've been going about modding all wrong.

[vagrant ore]

...... by scaling i dont mean that. things that have been modeled at a weird scale not true to the real one. small discrepencies and errors

[vagrant ore]

its not my model, its my friends mod. im here to defend my challenger and myself. and my mate ofc.

i havent disputed that it could very well be ripped or a close copy based on the wt mesh

but i myself dont think its a retopo. maybe a copy which isnt morral but isnt a rip just a close copy

[terse current]

The amount of this is the same model is ascenine. Can you seriously not see these two models are the same with slight alterations? Or are you just trying to get away with ripping?

[vagrant ore]

have you just read a word i typed??

[wet cairn]

Regardless I don't think it's fair to just accuse outright without evidence, especially when in this community many people (in my opinion, quite understandably) purchase a model expecting it to be legitimate, just for it turn out that it's a scam, and their money has pretty much been stolen from them. Bizentine's mod has clearly had a lot of work done as well -- stuff that couldn't have been ripped such as the interior etc, I think he deserved at least a direct message or a heads up, rather than just coming in here and trying to fire up the crowd around him.

[faint nacelle]

buying models is relatively new thing

[vagrant ore]

the mesh dinsity and tracks are quite different. but i havent said its not ripped or is ripped. ive only said i myself dont know.

[terse current]

Exactly what more evidence other than what homie just provided do you need?

Do you need me to circle the parts for you?

I can rip out microsoft paint right quick and do a little circle here and circle there.

[wet cairn]

There's about 60 messages of discussion around this before any images were even posted.

[vagrant ore]

bro your just angry for no reason. go outside

[wet cairn]

None of the accusers actually provided any evidence.

I'm not even arguing about whether or not the model is stolen. Just the way this discussion has been made is all wrong.

[twin crane]

The 2 images sent say more then enough

[wet cairn]

...okay, read what i said again

You didn't post any evidence of your own accord. You just accused straight away.

[terse current]

"You caught the guy who robbed me wrong that isn't fair you gotta let him go"

[vagrant ore]

honestly though why are you so pressed about this? let bi investigate the t90 as it is their job...

[faint nacelle]

actually Gaijin is who should do that

[twin crane]

Which I have them doing^

[vagrant ore]

if it turns out to be ripped then thats the answer isnt it?

[faint nacelle]

and then request BI to take it down it its their model

[twin crane]

Provided them that email if required

[wet cairn]

And could have been done without all the attention-seeking fanfare in this channel.

[twin crane]

Attention? Due diligence

[faint nacelle]

Well at least you wont be surprised if it ends up being rip

[terse current]

https://tenor.com/view/crusader-shocked-shotgun-gif-17982096

[wet cairn]

You can call it whatever you want. I think you should have direct messaged the guy first.

[twin crane]

Last time I direct messaged a guy he ignored everything I told him and went about doing it anyway

[vagrant ore]

no it does seem very attention seeking at this point. from the both of you. not very mature tbh

[spice owl]

i already said this if it turns out ripped il take it down, i paid for it an done my own investigation, an you provided none just acused

[stable dirge]

being positive beyond a reasonable doubt with undeniable evidence would’ve avoided any form or plausible deniability thus avoiding the entire kerfuffle

[vagrant ore]

ive literally offered to speak in dms to avoid this shit. ik how this chat ends up

[terse current]

The T90 is pretty cut and dry.

[twin crane]

https://tenor.com/view/big-aj-big-justice-boom-costco-guys-gif-13543695932005238540

[terse current]

I can circle the parts where the dirty modder touched me on the tank.

[twin crane]

Bruh

[faint nacelle]

I can say for having seen this happen over and over for the past 10 years. such cheap game ready models honestly dont really seem to exist

[vagrant ore]

ik my challenger is not from wt. i dont need to provide evidence here as if bi wish to investigate it they will. but i can provide any evidence in dms if you really seek to know.

[terse current]

I'm more shocked that an address that something is ripped has been met with such arrogant defence to go as far as posting evidence something is ripped as evidence it's not.

[faint nacelle]

there are very common red flags in these

[twin crane]

Honestly I wish there was cheaper models. My KA-52 was nearly $200

[terse current]

I myself fell prey to one of these models and the moment the accusation was made with even the slightest of agreeable comparrison I pulled the project. Wiremesh or not it's obvious.

[twin crane]

And it was not as nearly detailed as that T-90

And that says a lot

[terse current]

$700 in total for my AH-1Z and I lost the time to work on it

[vagrant ore]

can you like leave this be for bi to deal with now?

[twin crane]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-my-honest-reaction-damn-skull-skeleton-gif-15885937969029652188

[vagrant ore]

flexing the prices of your modles and continuing this is super childish n attention seeking

[terse current]

Imagine thinking that was about you.

[twin crane]

I’m done arguing it?

[vagrant ore]

i mean its clearly directed that way...

[twin crane]

I’m letting the respective legal teams handle it from here

[vagrant ore]

good for you. didnt need a whole sop though did we..

[terse current]

I was planning on doing literally anything else with my day.

But I guess i'm taking pictures of the challenger's tow hooks and gunner port.

[terse current]

😦

[fringe fiber]

this channel always has some fucking pearls I'll tell you that

[vagrant ore]

always

[faint nacelle]

dont start insults though

thats not gonna help your cause

[vagrant ore]

not to be that guy but he did kinda start the insults yk

#ip_rights_violations message

hes literally baiting a reaction...

[faint nacelle]

Dont take the bait

[fringe fiber]

all I've seen in this channel recently are baseless accusations followed with some pretty rude finger pointing and insults left and right. people get scammed sometimes and it is understandable to be mad when your model gets acused of being stolen. and being upset to see a ripped mod in the workshop is also understandable. but the accusations without evidence (like textures and meshs matching for example), the accusatory almost malicious nature of some comments and the rebuttals are kinda sad. if it is ripped they'll figure it out. there's no need for childish behavior.

[echo orchid]

it is not from WT.
it is however made by vigilante studios that have and unreal exclusive license don’t they

[vagrant ore]

license changed. no mention of unreal in their eula as of now

same for their models on fab

[echo orchid]

also as a general rule, that includes all parties, especially @twin crane
please keep it civil. want something to report, my dms are open. Also there is an email you can use pinned to this channel

[wet cairn]

I think it's pretty crazy that the moderation continues to allow this channel to act like the neighbourhood watch, it seems to only generate drama. I think these things should be sorted out by:
a) Just emailling the relevant legal department with their concern, or,
b) Getting in contact with the author with an approach like "Hi, I have concerns your model has been ripped/stolen/etc, my reasons for thinking so are X and Y"

[echo orchid]

that’s new, i’ll ask them directly since i sort of know some of them

[vagrant ore]

if you could clarify it with them would be great. if it turns out i cannot use the model im happy to take the mod down. [ its very broken after 1.3 anyway ]

[fringe fiber]

interesting.

[queen vine]

classic @terse current the reddit predator crying about ripped assets

[faint nacelle]

you probably missed what I said about the insults

[queen vine]

Sorry sir I will never do it again. If you want me to remove the message and send him a personal apology message please let me know sir. I can also forward you a message and apologize on my behalf making you take the time out of your day to warn me sir.

[faint nacelle]

that would be nice so I dont have to take time to issue official warning

[queen vine]

Sounds good sir, I can start that process and have it finalized in 1-2 business days

[terse current]

That's a crazy accusation coming from someone on the sex offender registry.

[queen vine]

@faint nacelle can you please warn the proven predator for calling me a sex offender

i can show valid proof that I am actually a multi millionaire living in a miami penthouse

[terse current]

You should send me your address. I'll stop by tomorrow and I'll confirm that for you. Don't need to trouble bohemia with nonsense.

[queen vine]

That would work if my concierge didn't exist but sadly they do and they don't let small minded homeless individuals in my building :/

[terse current]

Cute. Whenever you're ready to be a man about your beef my DM's are always open and my gas tank is always full.

[queen vine]

Who would've thought that a single USB would be worth as much as your mommas house

[faint nacelle]

!mute @queen vine @terse current 7d despite given change continuing insults and petty arguing.

[edgy coral]

Silence!! ò_ó
...
I keel u, @terse current and @queen vine!! Ò_Ó
bmr_staghorn#0000 now has 8 infractions.

[faint nacelle]

anyway

[hollow dagger]

I dont understand why creators are posting here instead of just emailing the [e-mail].

This is what it turns into, if you let people come in here and just instigate arguments you are asking for this kind of thing. The discord team should really not encourage this behaviour and tell people who want to make reports, to make reports. If not it's just virtue signaling.

[umbral marlin]

Does not look that good for $200 i would pay something like $30/$40

[spice owl]

yh right completly agree blake i come here an found my t90 being talked about with no evidence to back it up

[halcyon bobcat]

Sue him for defamation

[hollow dagger]

It just shouldnt be allowed to go on here, especially in a condescending manner. if you want to report it, report it. Let the people who get paid to make that call do it. Calling out creators in here is just childish. You can DM them if you want to help them, but if you dont care then: [e-mail]

[spice owl]

iv got him in my dm too but hes a rude guy, takes my information an told me im wrong but then does what i tell him to do

[hollow dagger]

@halcyon bobcat

[faint nacelle]

!Mute @light lodge @hollow dagger @spice owl @halcyon bobcat @umbral marlin 4d spam in chat. Will deal with you in the morning.

[edgy coral]

Silence!! ò_ó
...
I keel u, @halcyon bobcat, @hollow dagger, @umbral marlin, @spice owl and @light lodge!! Ò_Ó
troylemm24#0000 now has 2 infractions.

[twin crane]

And risk having it be stolen that’s a huge market issue right now with models

[dusk swan]

do you know how many hours would go into something like a ka-52?

at the rate you just said thats like 1$ an hour

[twin crane]

Been nothing but civil so far. don’t know where that’s coming from but yeah the conversations been heated which is fair.

[junior prism]

I'm just a bystander here and I know literally shit about modern 3d modeling, so here's my 2 cents: this entire convo appears like witch hunting and virtue signalling, with both sides arguments being "it's stolen, i'm telling you!" - "no, it's not!".

[manic laurel]

hold on your thoughts, this channel's topic is not about that, it is about discussing BI IP reports before sending them
#other_ip_topics may be more suited 🙂

[junior prism]

fair point, will redact that part and repost in there!

[manic laurel]

sorry and thanks 🍻

[soft egret]

That post is deceptive.
The first thing I notice are the tracks having a solid piece on the inside, whereas your model has all the small "hooks" (don't know what they're called").
And the WT one clearly has a smaller bag on the machinegun than yours.

But, if you look at actual images of the actual WT tank (and not YOUR image of what you call is the WT tank's mesh), you will see that the hook thingies are on there (like in yours), and also that the machinegun bag is larger (like in yours)
https://warthunder.com/en/news/6931-development-t-90a-boris-the-bullet-dodger-en

You would also notice that the position/orientation of all the track wheels, including the back sprocket is exactly the same.
It surely took alot of inspiration of the WT one.

If we look at other models that "creator" has created, the Merkeva MK2D for example.
Compare it to the war thunder model, on first look, it looks the same.
And when you concentrate on "loose" things like hooks/shackles on the model, that in real world just hang around in random positions. They are all in the same position as on the WT model, including the ones that hang up, even though gravity would dictate it would normally hang down.

Even down to the rotation of bolts. They are all the same, even when they appear to be "randomly" rotated in the model.
That simply does not happen when making your own models. That's not a thing that you coincidentally get all the loose parts oriented the exact same way.

On the right side, inbetween the track guard plates, above the track height.
There are little 3-element chains between the elements, 4 in total.
In war thunder, the first 3 hang down and the last one hangs up. That is totally random between every picture that's taken of a real life tank, and its completely left over to the modellers creativity of how to orient these chains.
On Georgy's model, the first 3 hang down, the last one hangs up.

On the war thunder model, the first one is tilted left, the second tilted right, the third about horizontal and the last horizontal.
On Georgy's model, first left, second right, third horizontal, last horizontal.

Things like that just don't happen.
Clearly Georgy spent alot of effort in adjusting the model, but clearly his and the WT model have the same baseline.

That presents a couple options.
Georgy and WT purchased the same model, and made some adjustments.
WT purchased the model from Georgy and made some adjustments.
Georgy ripped the WT model and made some adjustments.

War Thunder posted about their T-90 in 2020, Georgy posted it in 2023 and his fab listing is from 2025. (Curious how
No, WT didn't buy it from him.

[junior prism]

great breakdown, thank you!

[soft egret]

Taking a look at similar random things that are up to the creator on the T-90 model.
Like the layout of wires, the twist randomly, never lay down quite the same, which wire lays over another is just a creative decision. Its very random in real life.

Images: Georgy, WT, The discussed workshop upload, A real T90a, A real t90a from other angle

Coincidendce that Georgy's and the workshop upload model have the exact same layout of wires, including orientation of the left attachment point.
And it not matching an example real t90a tank?
Surely if you were modeling a highly realistic tank model, you wouldn't go to the effort to lay out your wires the same way as War Thunder does.
Notably also including that weird way that the cable coming from the receptacle on the left, just "merges" into the bigger cable.

https://warthunder.com/en/news/6931-development-t-90a-boris-the-bullet-dodger-en
https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/tank-t-90a-c9a5bbaf23ad47ad90586395629a2d1c
https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/t-90a-war-thunder-839db392cec74bd7bdff207cdc5d3d7e
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/04/15/05/69855549-0-image-a-48_1681533457667.jpg

[jagged python]

poor guy, hes already dead!

[soft egret]

I also don't think its fair to accuse without evidence.
Sometimes its obvious by just looking at it, so there is no need to provide detailed evidence.
But sometimes, there are people that pretend to be blind and not be able to see. So you have to serve it to them on a silver platter.

[manic laurel]

where ban 0

[soft egret]

Georgy: Tied on top, makes a little wave and goes down.
WT: Tied on top, makes a little wave and goes down.
Workshop: Tied on top, makes a little wave and goes down.
Real tank: Immediately disappears behind the Armor.

You want more proof? Look at it yourself, you'll find more.

[jagged python]

Real Tank actually making sense

xd

who would of thought

[manic laurel]

(have* thought 😆 my eyes!)

[junior prism]

cant agree with this view. if the case is obvious, that means collecting evidence is quick and simple. you wouldn’t go to court and say “sir, just lock him, its obvious”.

you have to have evidence, at the very least to make the case unambiguous for the general public (especially when throwing accusations in the open)

[manic laurel]

I believe he means "if it is obvious to everyone"
this is not a court of justice, and if it is ULTRA obvious then yeah, boom, out
however as a matter of law and such then yes, if it is obvious, evidence collection and listing are easy

[junior prism]

true to that, but without evidence such cases lead to useless back-and-forth like the one above, which to me appeared like a bunch of jerks on both sides throwing crap at each other.

on the other hand, the stuff Dedmen wrote gives no room to argue, and there’s educational value in it too. my point is about not provoking useless drama and bad blood, even if the OP has good intentions.

anyhow, enough of offtopic from me 😇

[manic laurel]

I believe we agree all in all - cheers 😄

[flint geyser]

Posting things here, aside from being used to start drama, actually leads to action taken quicker than using the e-mail or in-game report button

Me thinks

[wooden ingot]

sad thing is though, that those that are ripping model, are learning from such posts and will try to change things listed above. Seen that once with one notorious RHS ripper who basically used prof to improve his rips and sell it under yet another account

[echo orchid]

yes

[twin crane]

https://tenor.com/view/jesus-christ-thats-jason-bourne-shocked-surprised-shookt-gif-16976111

Man I was not expecting a bomb shell of information that hard holy

[raven glade]

Right LOL. Even in the beginning sizing up the two wireframes I was thinking, It looks like he just hit the tris to quad button in Blender and called it a day

[twin crane]

It’s just dead obvious but dedman just hit the nail hard thing went right through the wood.

[echo orchid]

i have compared the WT model with the one that was bought. they overlap. it is the very same model with small changes to hide the fact that it is ripped.
case closed

@spice owl-> please remove the ripped model from the workshop ASAP.

[untold night]

Time to add more hidden watermarks into one´s models I suppose 🤔

[crimson ingot]

can always be removed and overwrited with texture by the buyer (/stealer)

[halcyon bobcat]

From a quick google search War Thunder outsourced many of their models from studios. Here are examples from ArtVostok a Siberian based Studio https://www.artstation.com/artvostok/albums/1501523 Is there evidence War Thunder has sole rights to their model?

[echo orchid]

you can do smarter things with the 3d model

[echo orchid]

yes, outsourcing is the practice in the industry (BI does it too), however game studios order a model for their own, they do own the IPs and the model

that file is never sold again btw

[halcyon bobcat]

So somebody contacted Gaijin and confirmed that for this specfic model? Or the information is public?

[manic laurel]

you have to prove that you have the rights, not the other way around.

[spice owl]

diffrent in many places it may of been used as ref but its not the model im sure of it

[halcyon bobcat]

That makes sense, but it feels like a slippery slope. For example, if you buy an asset from a seller on CGTrader, they might have the rights to sell it through a studio agreement. While you can provide proof of your purchase, confirming that the seller actually has those rights could be much more difficult.

I'm not denying that there are plenty of ripped models on CGTrader, just trying to understand the burden of proof for future reference.

[faint nacelle]

correct. buying models is not surefire way to have something to work with

[echo orchid]

once you upload to the workshop, you attest you have sufficient rights to do so (not infringing on anyone's else IP and copyrights) as per TOS

[spice owl]

get some shots of close up in edit mode so we can see the actrull diffrence

[echo orchid]

understand that 3d modelling is like art making. Drawing on top of a painting doesn't make you an author of said painting, it is still a breach of copyrights

[spice owl]

not if the said model was the refrence for its build

its aloud

[echo orchid]

i am more interested in the fact that the position of all the details are the same as the two meshes perfectly overlap, which as i have told you via DMs, it is 100% not possible

[echo orchid]

do you understand what reference means? referance doesn't mean exactly the same

[spice owl]

it has its difrrences iv already stated, but the question is you guys say its ripped with no real evidence

apart from what i give you

[echo orchid]

i am not saying you ripped it

i am saying whoever bought you the model from used the ripped WT model, and changed parts to hide that

[spice owl]

thats not what i meant you say its the war thunder model but its diffrent in loads places you just dont understand what i mean

[untold night]

Not if I make the watermark a part of the model, no?

[echo orchid]

this is not how it works

[spice owl]

you know you can look at the meshes i gave you see what im talking about but your choosing to not

[echo orchid]

i am choosing to look at what is preciselly the same, not on what is different

[soft egret]

It seems like you do not understand how creating models works.
PuFu is just repeating what I already wrote above.

The WT model was taken, and slightly edited.
Yes, some parts are different. Doesn't change the fact that it is the WT model.

[spice owl]

thats alot to say without any proof

[soft egret]

The proof is above, posted by two different people by now

You not wanting to accept it, is different than it not existing

[spice owl]

im not acepting becouse noone proved to me its actrully ripped, i still think its been built of a ref

[soft egret]

Okey. I accept your opinion. And wish you luck with that.

[echo orchid]

i even provided you with a comparison between the model you bought and it is using a WT ripped mesh, the actual WT mesh, and my own mesh that is done based on pictures and 2d drawings

while similar, things are different, they do not overlap

the fact that you cannot understand the simplest of things = you cannot have the exact same positions for 3d meshes, including preciselly the same dimensions, the same rotations etc without being the same exact mesh

[spice owl]

i disagree with that you telling me i couldnt build it exaclty like the WT with Wt right there

[echo orchid]

just because some parts are different it doesn't make it a new mesh.

i have used 3d CAD data for work as referance a lot of time and it still wasn't precisely the same in the end

[soft egret]

You are free to disagree.

I hear lots of people also disagree with pictures showing them sitting in their car and exceeding the speedlimit, saying that while it looks like their car, has their license plate and shows someone who looks exactly like them sitting in it, there is no proof that it is actually them.

I wish you people good luck with your opinion. Same as I do to people who get a speeding ticket.

[spice owl]

you say details perfecly overlap but they dont, they are very close but they will not line up no what what you do to it

[soft egret]

It is very clear that further discussions will not change any opinions here.

[halcyon bobcat]

This was sent yesterday, but @echo orchid said the mod should be taken down ASAP. Has the position changed now given the evidence provided?

[twin crane]

For all and any who are interested in reporting a mod with evidence.

[e-mail]

Also pinned in this channels description

[faint nacelle]

BI can take it down on their own for sure.

[halcyon bobcat]

That’s clear. But didn’t really answer my question. Are you guys just throwing out opinions or do discord mods control the workshop?

To be clear I could care less about the tank, I will never use it. I would just like to understand the process

[faint nacelle]

anyone can provide insight into the raised questions.

the discord moderators moderate just the discord

BI does their decision based on available information

Is my understanding on the matter anyway

[halcyon bobcat]

Copy , thank you

[twin crane]

Mmm in some cases

PuFu being that exception

Which is nice to have someone to refer to sometimes

[faint nacelle]

He still dont control workshop. he can make valid points though

due to experience

[twin crane]

No I know but usually he’s a good contact to reach out to regarding mods and stuff

[narrow mantle]

i got a question, when you make your clothing in marvelous, do you just do it of the top of your head or do you like have a actual blueprint of the clothing your making?

[twin crane]

@faint nacelle @soft egret

@spice owl

[plain rivet]

Usually there’s a blueprint to follow that modelers use

[raven glade]

Both, depending on my mood. Sometimes I just use visual references and other times I’ll trace over 2D garment prints. @narrow mantle

This is a 2D garment pattern. Back on topic though.

[tranquil vault]

if I found a game on steam that might be using A3 assets would emailing [e-mail] be the right course of action?

[cedar bone]

woah thats new, yes it would be, and can i has a link

[faint nacelle]

yes that is the place

it has happenend few times before too I think

[cedar bone]

gib link pls i am geniunely interested

[tranquil vault]

im not 100% but i included the reddit ad, the steam page links and screenshots. it was sus slightly.

and sorry if I'm right I don't want to give them free advertising.

[cedar bone]

dm

we had strike from someone who claimed our assets werent ours and it was.. fraudulent strike. and i want to see how ligeitimate stealing looks like

if you think that models are ripped, it should be fairly close to refunder models, and i never seen such thing

[tranquil vault]

np, sorry ujust didn't want randoms to see

[twin crane]

Look up in the chat and you’ll see

[cedar bone]

mm?

[twin crane]

You said you want to see what ripping looks like go look up at the last day or 2

[cedar bone]

the warthunder thing?

[twin crane]

Yes

[cedar bone]

i duno man, something is off there

[twin crane]

Off about what?

[cedar bone]

about whole situatuion, something is off

i did not follow it closely, but i have gut feeling

[twin crane]

My guy

I’m not even gonna argue with you

You wanted to see legit stealing there it is choose to believe it or not lol

[cedar bone]

im not arguing lol

[twin crane]

The 3D modeller is the whole reason why this came about but they uploaded that model and defended it

Gaijin is already taking action

[echo orchid]

where is this from ?

also please move to #other_ip_topics

[twin crane]

What @cedar bone said

[twin crane]

Conversation is over

[twin crane]

^^

[halcyon bobcat]

the email just says they're investigating

[echo orchid]

that's also some sort of action, isn't it?

[halcyon bobcat]

I mean you could put it that way, just seems a bit misleading

[hollow dagger]

I just don’t understand the concept of posting it in here, it just seems like virtue signaling to me.

[manic laurel]

this channel is to discuss BOHEMIA INTERACTIVE intellectual properties' issues

[hollow dagger]

Yeah, none of which are being discussed

It’s just screenshots of reports or callouts

[faint nacelle]

also lot of completely unrelated people commenting.

[manic laurel]

hence why it should not happen here

[faint nacelle]

there was legit BI related question too just earlier though

so stay out of the channel. if you got inappropriate content to report you can use #discord_tickets

[versed trench]

good afternoon, which channel can I contact about the server using monetization, the war between the Russian Federation and Ukraine, and the mod in which there are 15 author's mods (RHS CBA_3 CUP). I would appreciate a reply.

[manic laurel]

Hi, #other_ip_topics can be the one - if it is "only" about reporting, see [e-mail]

[versed trench]

Can I hold the server accountable for violating copyrights and selling the Wagner PMCs uniform?

[paper prawn]

Report to RHS and CUP teams. CBA_A3 is GPLv2

[hollow dagger]

Yes if they are taking money in exchange for mods you can report it to that email as he said.

[versed trench]

Okay, thanks

[twin crane]

Need to clarify that

Because it just states properly violations

[manic laurel]

yes
@pliant oar ?

[twin crane]

It should be obvious enough but even I didn’t know or probably a lot of people tbh I actually didn’t have other IP topics originally in my list there are so many channels here. So apologies

[pliant oar]

erm it was to discuss all IP violations related to BI games / workshops, the non violations discussions go to the other channel

[manic laurel]

oh, good then 😄

[spice owl]

why my photo get removed then

[soft egret]

#rules 6, crossposting

[spice owl]

i get that but my topic has been shared across both groups,

[narrow mantle]

thankyou, and where do you get your 2d patterns from?

[raven glade]

Depending on what you want to model just type into google “cargo pants 2D garment pattern”. Also the best place believe it or not for 2D garment patterns is Pinterest. DM me for any other questions though.

[carmine folio]

is there anyone i can DM regarding possible game TOS violations?

[vivid wave]

Not me, but what is the context?

[coral torrent]

Email in the channel description, if you are unsure if it is a violation please give us some details to work with here

[carmine folio]

is it allowed to offer donators to a server a notification and ping about 20 seconds before a server is about to restart to let them know when to skip the queue?
to me it is giving donators an incentive to donate with a function ingame. seems like it wouldn't be allowed just as giving donators priority queue isn't allowed per the no commercialization of enfusion policy.

(i have evidence of servers doing this which is why i am asking)

[coral torrent]

You mean e.g. posting a discords notification to a close group you pay for? Donation is not the right term there, as you need to pay to access this information then? Donation would mean everyone gets this info regardless if they paid or not.

[carmine folio]

Yes, only people who pay can see this notification.

you need to donate to see this, also they advertise it in public channels to incentivise people to donate.

i guess donation isnt the right term but you know what i mean.

[coral torrent]

This is actually an interesting question. I will discuss it with our lawyers and get back to you. Feel free to send off an email with the info contained so if we decide we have some ground to act on we can do it. Include a link to the discord, screenshots of the kind of info not publicly available, where and how people get access to it etc

[carmine folio]

will do!

[coral torrent]

For anyone else following the thread: We have determined that case is still commercial use of our IP, even if it is facilitated through external software. In the end some kind of access to our server software is exchanged for money. So something like this is right now not allowed. We are working on updates to the legal framework to introduce similar ways for monetization like in DayZ and Arma 3, but until then its not allowed nor tolerated to do so.

[carmine folio]

email sent, thanks for the quick response.

[rustic copper]

This sounds weird to me; as server providers also ask money to gain access to a server, and those are allowed (obviously).
You can argue that you pay for the hardware/connection and get Arma Server for "free", but that's IMHO more commercial than paying for an early notification that the server is restarted 🤷

[coral torrent]

It is about the subject of the payment and if our IP is involved or not. What you say is not remotely associated with it - so much so that I do not even know where to start explaining it, so I won't in this case.

[paper prawn]

Give monetizers an inch and they will hoover up as much cash as they can in all manner of intricate schemes

[snow olive]

It's kind of like raising a teenager, the more you try to restrict them, the sneakier, and more creative they get about things

In other words, y'all really need to hurry along this monetization stuff so folks can stop being shut down for trying to keep their servers operational without spending hundreds out of pocket every month, they'll just keep getting creative and finding loopholes

[flint geyser]

Well, since a lot of servers are monetizing anyway, making it so they can do it legally is the way to go here

Either that or develop measures to better moderate it, since right now you can't pin a server to an owner

So everyone can do it with no repercussions, really

[rancid pine]

I mean it is like tough sometimes to pay server bills and expect the other admins to help and such over the years. Theres time my server bills were over 1k a month as I have to pay for my servers my community plays on. Some big server communities get there servers for free but atleast for communities like mine it would be great if we could legally do anything to offset the costs at times. I understand nobody is forcing anyone to host them and such but providing popular places for players to play does benefit BI. Content creators that play on these servers sell copies of the game to players and are basically free advertising. Regardless it would be cool if there was something out there, even a paid whitelist that could be regulated somehow.

[flint geyser]

Right, donations don't motivate people because they'd love to get something in return, and their favorite community continuing to exist thanks to their donation is worthless to them I guess, an in-game hat would be worth it! because you have to show other people you're better for donating than they are!

[coral compass]

the ideal would be if BIS could own and maintain the monetisation platform the same way they've verticalised the workshop, but that's a lot of work and liability

[echo orchid]

let's see what happens if/when BI implements again server monetization with all the mods that do not allow it....prime example = RHS

[paper prawn]

Heh, saw one of the WCS guys pleading for monetization and I did wonder what they'd replace RHS with 🤣

That said, I see no reason why Reforger should not have the same rules for server monetization as ARMA 3 and DayZ, with the same limitations. But mod monetization is a whole new deal that will create imbalances within the community and if people thought BI Legal took too long to deal with issues in the past, they ain't seen anything yet...

[rancid pine]

luckily not a worry for me but still either way something would be better than nothing

[echo orchid]

because the A3 and DayZ monetization rules are ok.ish, but there is no oversight

and it created a lot of issues

[paper prawn]

Agreed. I have hoped every January that the monetization policy would be revoked, given it renews each year

[echo orchid]

i am for no monetization whatsoever, or full monetization for both servers and mods. Is that feasable? unlikely to be fair, because it would require a proper way to maintain and check both servers and mods

[paper prawn]

Those really are the only options, BI has neither the resources, nor I suspect the inclination, to properly manage limited monetization of servers (as demonstrated in the past) or mods

[snow olive]

I bet it would encourage more in house modding

More modders and more players for the game is the goal here right?

..right?

Now that the workshop is in house, oversight issues should not be as much of a problem as they were

That's a copout if it's brought up for AR

[paper prawn]

How ever did ARMA 3 manage? 🤦

[prime stratus]

Steam workshop

I’m guessing

[paper prawn]

No monetization of mods I mean...

[prime stratus]

Ya steam workshop probably

[rustic copper]

Not at all... Of course people got their game removed from Steam or banned on BE, but when you can just buy it again for a few bucks there's no real impact.

[paper prawn]

Given that video content creators get paid by BI for streaming Reforger though, it seems like it's only fair for server owners and modders to rake in some cash too 😭

[prime stratus]

Where is the proof?

Has this been stated before?

And even if it was true (big if) then at least the game is very good

[paper prawn]

Lurkit... DayZ and Reforger are proud members of the Lurkit program...

[snow olive]

Streamers get paid for bringing players to the game and these servers, but then servers can't monetize and pay for this increased traffic and need for more servers 😅

[prime stratus]

Streamers get paid by the platform they stream on

[prime stratus]

What is the lurkit program?

First I’m hearing of it

[paper prawn]

And the Lurkit program gives them keys for giveaways which boosts their platform revenues. https://www.lurkit.com/company/arma-reforger-creator-program Also, what exactly is the ARMA Reforger Regiment ("a small group of community creators who have been hand-picked due to the quality of their content and/or community contributions") and what is their reward?

[prime stratus]

Seems interesting

[delicate grove]

@coral torrent Would you be open for a chat about @carmine folio ‘s complaint?

Over DMs or whatever is most convenient for you.

We are a community that did this and stopped as soon as we saw your message about it, and would like to seek clarification to ensure we’re acting in the best interests of BIs defined rules.

[twin crane]

Uh oh

Someone didn’t read ToS

[coral torrent]

The rules right now are are simple, you may not accept any money in return of anything that has to do with our game. You can sell them colorful discord names or what ever else, but thats it.

[delicate grove]

Or didn’t understand it.

Thanks, noted and will not do that again.

[twin crane]

Technically the damage has been done

[delicate grove]

Would appreciate your grace, and I acknowledge that ignorance is not an excuse for violations.

Cool story vape take it easy man

[twin crane]

Well no. You didn’t read the ToS lol

[delicate grove]

Not worth it Winters, lol

[glossy forge]

Yea I stopped myself seems like bait

[twin crane]

It’s not I’m just stating regardless you still breached ToS

It’s BIs discretion to allow that or not

Even with corrective action

[paper prawn]

Tbf, I don't think the ToS covered that, thus the question and Legal's response through Arkensor. For sure, that is not a monetization issue in ARMA 3 or DayZ...

[twin crane]

It does

Anything relating to their property or assets even YouTube monetization must be done with permission or correct terms of use

Giving people stuff in game requires you to utilize bohemias assets for profit

[paper prawn]

You could argue that it is a monetization issue with discord... What if an individual is just manually putting timed messages in that channel...?

[twin crane]

Negative that’s just how it works you cannot profit off any of BIs assets

Dayz and Arma 3 were a horrible example of right and wrong and that’s why reforger has this issue

Many people came over here thinking this is no man’s land

Just like the many spawn wall DZE sellers

If you cannot afford to run a server don’t

Think grahme said that best in #other_ip_topics or up in here

[paper prawn]

I can't argue with that 😉 I was surprised at Legal's answer though because the only connection to the server or BI software was someone knowing when a server restart happened. As I read it it was discord pings in a donator channel for server restarts

[glossy forge]

Idk the way you have responded makes it feel like doing anything in this game is like walking on egg shells

[twin crane]

Arkensor has made it clear probably a million times now I actually feel bad for the countless emails his teams side has to deal with.

[twin crane]

Just don’t make money off the game boom and don’t infringe on others copyrighted work

[glossy forge]

Man it’s almost like you need a lawyer on retainer to do anything nowadays

[molten kraken]

even YouTube monetization must be done with permission or correct terms of use
That's country dependant, not every country runs the laws the same way

[twin crane]

No just read the ToS it’s pretty clear

Like any game when you load it up for the first time there’s that long list you ignore

Yeah that’s what you need to read

When you hit check without reading you’re agreeing to these things

[paper prawn]

Just one thing on Youtube monetization, there is a very little known blanket permission for YT that no one seems to follow (but is applicable to Reforger): https://www.bohemia.net/community/game-content-usage-rules/monetization-youtube

Don't think I have ever noticed anyone putting in those lines in the video's description...

[delicate grove]

Despite what this yapologist is going on about, I don’t see Reforger here: https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/

I see Arma3?

[paper prawn]

Reforger == ARMA (for this use case, though not in game terms 😉 )

[delicate grove]

But the thing is like literally titled ARMA 3

This is not that game

Is all I’m saying

So i’m looking for the Arma Reforger End User License Agreement

[paper prawn]

Not what you linked isn't

[paper prawn]

Link on Steam Store page and presumably in the install folder on your PC

[delicate grove]

Found it https://store.steampowered.com/eula/1874880_eula_1

Weird that I have to go to Steam for it

[paper prawn]

Told ya 😉

[delicate grove]

I just want to read where the above discussion is covered in legal terms

No hate or anything, looking to re-educate myself.

[molten kraken]

ToS are equivalent to a contract between two parties, in France for example:

• If a contract has an "abusive" close said close is void an null in it's entirety (even if it's only part of it that's wrong).
• Other laws dictate how you can restrict someone money making and content production about your IP, which doesn't allow you to restrict youtube monetization as long as it doesn't tarnish your company or someone.
• If you sell a product/service on French soil, you're bound to follow local law.
  Due to previous points, in France you can make videos of yourself playing arma, get paid for said videos and as long as you don't tarnish BI they can't say much.
  In another country same story wouldn't end the same way, that's why ToS and EULA are so long and indigest but still miss the spot

[paper prawn]

Pretty clear policy: `BOHEMIA INTERACTIVE a.s. hereby grants to any third party a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable permission to use and display game content and to create derivative works (“Work”) based upon audio & video capture/recording of game content on the website: www.youtube.com, for worldwide commercial use based on full or demo versions of games from BOHEMIA INTERACTIVE a.s., under the following conditions:

There needs to be included into every Work and it's description the following notice:
"This video was created using content of Bohemia Interactive a.s."
"Copyright © 2025 Bohemia Interactive a.s. All rights reserved."
"See www.bistudio.com for more information."`

[delicate grove]

Yeah ToS isn’t really universal in the legal world.

My company has like 50 different license agreements based on origin country of business

Anyway, back on topic

[paper prawn]

You have permission to monetize on YT, just include the three lines in the description, which I don't remember anyone doing 🙂

[delicate grove]

If anyone can provide Reforger EULA about server notifications (server restart, not arma server restarts) in discord, i’d love to educate myself

Because the agreement i have with my provider which is running the script that does that doesn’t seem to have an issue with it

Since we pay them $1200/mo

This isn’t a mod that does that from Reforger, which I can see being a clear monetization violation

This is a script that monitors my Docker fleet.

[paper prawn]

Personally I think Legal overreached on that but I don't play Reforger neither do I have donator channels. That said, a donation in principle is supposed to have NO benefits over other players, so in BI's definition of donations vs monetization a separate channel where donators get a message would be monetization

[delicate grove]

I agree that it is overreach.

But Arma has rights over Arma and their IP, not my game server by OVH.

Is there a legal channel?

Appreciate you btw @paper prawn

[paper prawn]

Nope. Also the answer is just a chat message from Arkensor passing on Legal's decision, in a channel that has a lot of traffic at times, not pinned and not mentioned elsewhere 🤷 If you saw it you know BI's policy, if you missed it and didn't go back a couple hundred messages then you don't... BI need to tighten up their messaging and actually make it easier for people to find things like this!

[delicate grove]

Yeah the more accessible the better.
Not asking to talk to a BI lawyer, but documenting their decisions on common issues would be beneficial for both parties, imo.

[molten kraken]

I would think that if you indicate that server is restarting you're ok, if you indicate the reforger instance state you're not.
However that would be walking on a gray very thin line

[delicate grove]

Sure but such is the world of legal.

It’s all a big song and dance to ensure everyone walks away happy.

[paper prawn]

Just allow server monetization under the same rules as ARMA 3 and DayZ, no more. Don't allow modders to monetize and things will be much clearer. Maybe also remove the restriction on ARMA 2 monetization (not allowed)

Personally I think that Reforger server monetization is held up by the linkage with modding monetization (a much more thorny issue), but what do I know? 🤷

[delicate grove]

Totally, and if this was done by a mod, I’d be far more understanding.

[paper prawn]

Personally cannot wait for all the server owners who run RHS coming in here and crying because they cannot monetize 🤣

[delicate grove]

What’s the drama there?

Or maybe for a different channel

[paper prawn]

RHS historically and to this day forbids the use of their mods on monetized servers. As do CUP and others in ARMA 3 and many mods in DayZ do the same now...

[delicate grove]

Felt and heard. We’re up to like $1200 all said and done.

[delicate grove]

Does a script reading a log file created by the game fall under the EULA and is a game log created by the game considered to be Bohemia's property?

[faint nacelle]

@delicate grove please inform your community that you are discussing the matter with BI and they should not come in here to cause ruckus.

[delicate grove]

Nobody has asked them to come in here, and they are aware of this discussion. They are all paying customers of BI's commercial/consumer services, just like myself. We're appreciative of the platform for open discussion, and I, along with that community, acknowledge that your folks' own rules, policies, and staff discretion will govern this Discord, not ours.

[coral torrent]

If you are asking if you can provide paid access to e.g. killfeed or other ingame data, the answer is the same right now. No. Also subject to change, but until then you have to wait please

[native narwhal]

why perpetuate a free service to the public if you can't afford it? If the public is not willing to support you with free donations without perks then obviously they don't value your service, so why continue it if it puts this amount of financial stress?

[delicate grove]

That is not what I am asking, respectfully. I am asking if we are allowed to:

1. Use Ubuntu on a paid dedicated host with ssh access to execute a script.
2. Use Docker to provide telemetry about containerized workloads, including but not limited to, stdout from processes running inside/files stored within said container
3. Use Discord Webhooks to inform players who give their money in support of our community and staff when those containers enter a "restarting" state.

[halcyon widget]

so you want to incentivize people to donate by giving them a webhook telling them when a server restarts?

[delicate grove]

I'm asking BI.

[native narwhal]

you are selling a service based on artifact of the game

[halcyon widget]

what do you think the answer is gonna be?

[delicate grove]

But I do not use anything from the game to determine that the container has entered that state. So how is that?

[native narwhal]

", including but not limited to, stdout from processes running inside/files stored within said container"

[delicate grove]

And not explicitly Arma Reforger. Again, the state of the container is determined by the Docker Daemon. Not Arma. Not Enfusion.

This feels like trying to put a stranglehold on any sort of anything in proximity to Arma.

[halcyon widget]

well why are you giving that notification? so people can join on restart?

[native narwhal]

the stronghold is already there, it feels like you are trying to wiggle out of it by vague wording

you said this: Does a script reading a log file created by the game fall under the EULA and is a game log created by the game considered to be Bohemia's property?

[delicate grove]

It's not vague at all. I've explicitly described, to a "T", how I am reaching the information that is used to inform our community.

[delicate grove]

Sure, and I've elaborated a bit, but a definite answer on this would be awesome.

[delicate grove]

Stranglehold*

[halcyon widget]

you guys also run RHS right? do you think this complies with their EULA?

[native narwhal]

this would definately not comply with our EULA

[halcyon widget]

well they run RHS

[delicate grove]

I think there's a disconnect somewhere, here, lol.

How does RHS come in to this?

Soul Assassin, are you a representative of Bohemia Interactive in this discussion?

(genuine question)

[native narwhal]

no I'm representitive of Soul_Assasin

[faint nacelle]

since we have again reached this part of the conversation @delicate grove its your time to write to BI legal department an email.

[delicate grove]

Can do.

[faint nacelle]

the monetization mail address might also work

[delicate grove]

Thank you for that direction.

[delicate grove]

ack

[native narwhal]

But a s a representative of RHS I can tell you right now that we do see the scenario you described as monetization, and therefore would be in breach of our EULA

[delicate grove]

You're welcome to join our community and explain that, or if you're willing to tell me where I can find your EULA to share with counsel for review, I can do that too.

[native narwhal]

if you are using RHS on that server

[halcyon widget]

they use RHS on all of their servers.

[delicate grove]

I assume just on the mod page?

[halcyon widget]

i DM'd it to you.

[delicate grove]

Baller, ty.

[native narwhal]

with your councel lol? you should have read the EULA when you accepted to start using it

[delicate grove]

Some people who play on our servers like to apply their profession in support of the community

Look, respectfully

Nobody here (at our community) is interested in doing anything but the right thing. I personally disagree, however, with being told I can't do X or Y on a host I pay good money for. If i was touching anything to do with Arma or RHS, I would immediately walk away from the concept.

But I'm being rubbed the wrong way by this "well you run X so you will bow to Y" or "well that's kinda like what's in this line from our TOS, but I can't validate it, so stop"

When the reality is that this is all done completely abstract from BI or RHS.

[native narwhal]

you are being told that something that was given to you for free cannot be used by you to make money

[delicate grove]

But I'm going to end the conversation there and ensure I follow the proper channel for a concrete answer, on which I will base my decision.

[native narwhal]

you can do whatever you want, but then you will have to do it without RHS

you seem to think that the supply chain stops with you. You got the game server for free, the mods for free. You think these were free to make? You pay for your infrastructure, and you feel like you need to recoup. But that game server and those mods came with an agreement that you can use them only if you don't charge people for services.

Turn on donations, give your service to all your community members, paying and nonpaying, give better and better services with time for all and you are good to go

noone will bother you

dont sell your donations, sell yourself

[delicate grove]

https://tenor.com/bZdyb65xF8U.gif

I hear you, but no need to be presumptous.

I do not make any of those assumptions.

Thank you so much, genuinely, for your creative contributions to the modding community for this game.

Top notch stuff, explains why it's so widely used.

Wish I could offer compensation for it.

[idle knoll]

Since you are a rep for yourself and RHS while we wait for email confirmation you can rest your eyes because we will be suspending this service

(Even tho this doesn't effect your mod what so ever in any aspect at all regardless how you spin it)

[frigid heart]

It doesn't matter if it "affects" his mod, what matters it that by USING his mod on your server you agree to comply with the RHS EULA which states you are not allowed to monitize your server

[idle knoll]

It's not monetized plain and simple we will wait for BI legal to respond and not have this handled in a discord thank you

[paper prawn]

It also does affect RHS because they explicitly say in their EULA that they forbid any monetization including donate-reward systems, which this would be

[frigid heart]

(Even tho this doesn't effect your mod what so ever in any aspect at all regardless how you spin it)
This tells me plenty about your intentions already, You are trying to circumvent Reforger EULA rules on monetization by trying to be smart. Just don't, its that simple.
wait for the monetisation rules to be established like they have been for A3 and DayZ. people like you ruin it for the rest

[delicate grove]

"people like you" is crazy lol, but again, you are heard.

Sounds like a review of EULA is in order to include supporting infrastructure.

[frigid heart]

Well you aren't the first and definitely not the last to ask here about some roundabout way of providing monetisation, nothing personal

[delicate grove]

Probably annoying, and I hear that.

Really not looking to profit of your teams work.

At all.

Or anyone's, for that matter.

[stable dirge]

to clarify, wasn’t it confirmed by a BI employee at one point that the RHS EULA is unenforceable outside of removing mods which use RHS as a dependency from the workshop, as you can not dictate who or what server is allowed to use your mods? genuinely just curious on the scope of RHS eula enforceability and whether this is correct or i may be misremembering

[frigid heart]

From this message I gather that is in the works, but I wouldn't know.
#ip_rights_violations message

[delicate grove]

Appreciate your acknowledgement, nonetheless.

[idle knoll]

Regardless of what is said here

Service is suspended as I stated

until BI legal team emails us back because this is not a discussion for discord mods or mod devs to have unless they speak for BI legal team

[delicate grove]

So we're enforcing "would-be" EULA's though, correct?

As RUMOR states, we've simply opened it up to our entire Discord community to "sell ourselves", as I quite liked that comment from Soul Assassin.

[glossy depot]

It seems pretty straightforward to me and most everyone else(Including B.I.). Selling access to files created by the game is against the EULA, pretty simple to comprehend tbh.

[paper prawn]

You can refuse to allow specific servers from running your mod...

BI just won't enforce that from their end iirc

[delicate grove]

Nobody is selling access to files. Not trying to continue conversation, but I want to make that clear.

[stable dirge]

so then it won’t be enforced? and as such you can’t refuse them ?

[delicate grove]

We had a bash script that would poll the docker daemon and send a discord message when the container was in a restarting state. Because of the grey area according to BI, we've opted to simply open that up to the entire community while we await response.

[paper prawn]

Yeah, even though this has been discussed all day and new folks seem to be coming in and interpreting things, let's not lose track of the original question this morning (that was asked of BI whether it was acceptable). These folks at least came and asked

[stable dirge]

so then how would it be enforced it that’s not the case ? @paper prawn

maybe we move this question to other ip actually

[delicate grove]

RHS, WCS, and BI all work together pretty closely. I can promise if RHS asks for a mod not to be used, and you refuse, you will face BI.

No idea why that's the case, but.

It is the trend in my own personal experience.

Probably has to do with RHS operating under a license agreement with BI, but IANAL.

[prime stratus]

Some Members of rhs are /were a part of Bohemia interactive

As in developers

[paper prawn]

Nah, you have the license with RHS, RHS can enforce their license terms and have legal advisors to do so...

[stable dirge]

regardless of such, just looking for clarification on how the external EULA can be enforced if not by BI

[delicate grove]

Ah, neat-o.

[paper prawn]

But in ARMA 3 mods have had scripted solutions to deal with this

[delicate grove]

A lawyer approaching someone over Discord sounds like comedy gold

[stable dirge]

not permissible to inhibit the functioning/launch of the game/server anymore if that’s what you’re referring to

[paper prawn]

I doubt that they would have even noticed... However, now they have...

[prime stratus]

It has most definitely happened before
And if it happened to me you damn well know I’m laughing their ass right outta my DMs

[delicate grove]

Man, same, lol. That is just asinine.

Get a solicitor.

[paper prawn]

Honestly, the solution to this is Reforger server monetization in line with other games. You won't be able to use RHS if you do, many servers seem to have alternatives and you can sell priority queues removing the need for notifications

[delicate grove]

Except RHS is subject to Reforger's workshop licenses (right?) like anyone else, so I'm not sure they'd have a choice unless paid mods became a thing (not saying they will, only theoretical)

[paper prawn]

Reforger Workshop allows any license afaik

Legitimate license that is

[delicate grove]

Oh fr?

I though it was only what is outlined on their workshop wiki

Which is a set of BI-issued licenses

As it's still ultimately their game

[paper prawn]

Yeah, RHS can use their's, if CUP ever did something they can use CUP's license and Anvil (Reforger ACE) uses GNUPL

[delicate grove]

Wonder how enforcement works, there.

[flint geyser]

I have the best license

[paper prawn]

Personally I'd advise against any use of an APL license... too many inconsistencies and the licenses were written in the days before Steam Workshop...

[delicate grove]

https://tenor.com/HDOJ.gif

[paper prawn]

Mod teams enforce their license, but just like on Steam, they can show the workshop owner their license, show the infringement and demand action...

Cause BI are legally responsible for the Reforger workshop. Valve are responsible for the ARMA3/DZSA workshops...

[pliant jolt]

If your server is bare metal, what if your discord notification just notified when the server turned back on, not nessesarily when the Reforger server starts?

[delicate grove]

We've decided to just follow what's being said in here, rather than fighting with EULA. Seems like the best way forward, as we'd like to keep a working relationship with the team here on their preferred terms.

[carmine folio]

even if that was the case, RHS uses custom factions and arsenals so to get any of their gear in regular conflict you need to make a dependent mod.

[carmine folio]

smart choice

[delicate grove]

Still don’t agree with your precedent, but that’s neither here nor there.

[stable dirge]

“outside of removing mods which use RHS as a dependency”

[carmine folio]

and i dont think a servers entire history being around bending EULAs and TOS's is good for the game either, but that is also neither here nor there.

[carmine folio]

im saying its kinda not possible to use RHS in conflict unless you run their scenarios or make dependent mods, i have a hypothesis that it was intentionally done this way for this exact reason, which is very smart ngl.

[delicate grove]

Haven’t been associated with Stolen Liberty for a while now. Literally before me, and I’ve done a lot where I can for these guys. If anyone has any qualms, i’m pretty reasonable. We’re trying to shoot straight, here. I’m paying a good chunk out of pocket, and I’ve realized I’m cool with that reality. Somehow servers still run Bakhmut, though.

[stable dirge]

hypothetically you could just find an arsenal mod created by someone else on the workshop to counteract this (even though i highly advise against skirting rules, EULA, or TOS) and yeah i think you’re right about the second part aswell

[carmine folio]

imagine if DG just used WCS_Arsenal 🤣

prob should stop not the topic of the channel lul

[rancid pine]

shhhhh how did you know lmao

[twin crane]

Or I just make darkgru_arsenal for dark gru

[carmine folio]

then RHS would have the ability to take it down.

[twin crane]

Who said it had anything to do with WCS or RHS

or any of their work

[terse current]

I have yet to witness a takedown over arsenal configs.
Additionally to my understanding of custom licenses is that Bohemia will only enforce their own liscenses. They provide a short list to choose from and that is what they are legally obligated to uphold. Anything outside of that they won't pursue. Meaning unless you're planning on lawyering up for an international lawsuit for violating your custom license you're probably SOL. This is my understanding based on many conversations in here.

Your TL:DR is No, they would not have that ability.

I would love to be corrected by a member of Bohemia Legal as it would be personally beneficial.

[restive inlet]

@clear marlin

[manic laurel]

@restive inlet why such ping?

[restive inlet]

It is the person who is involved in self-proclaiming himself the owner of mods that are not his.

[restive inlet]

And the ping is because I don't understand why you still have it here. Kind regards.

[paper prawn]

How many linked XBox accounts in that profile 👀

[restive inlet]

unlimited 😂

[paper prawn]

Meant the guy you pinged... bloody hell that's a lot 😉

[clear marlin]

That guy only makes up lies, I expelled him from my community and he left in pain

Of all the things he says about me and my community, we only say it as sarcasm and he uses that to tell lies and look good, but the mod seller is the one

According to this, it is prohibited and he is dedicated to selling mods, you can check it in the workshop

My community also bought mods from him and ended up deleting them because we don't let him sell his mods on my server.

This was the reason for the expulsion

Now it's up to Arma Reforger management to take action. They banned me once and realized I didn't break any rules; it was all a misunderstanding.

I didn't want to report anyone, but there is the evidence, so they stop telling lies about me and my community.

[carmine folio]

id like to see the attempt lmao

[terse current]

Considering Darkgru removed RHS prior to that going up because they don't want to run RHS you wont see an attempt.

[carmine folio]

exactly🤣

[restive inlet]

@clear marlin
At no point was there any mention of your community. It's about how you behave as a moderner, whether you respect the moderner's food or not.

[open frost]

Did he also plagiarize a mod from you?

[faint nacelle]

@clear marlin @open frost @restive inlet @terse current I see you guys have read the channel description wrong. This isnt the #air_your_drama channel. this is the #ip_rights_violations channel. if someone is violating your rights or breaking BI rules you can use the email listed in the channel description to send the details to BI

[clear marlin]

Oh that's good, I have it, I'll send the evidence.

[clear marlin]

Say it for yourself, you're stealing content and ideas from Reloadz, you use GTA content and say they're your creations.

Stop making things up to get attention, you're too old for that.

@faint nacelle here right?

Is it also possible to report harassment against a member of my community? They're exposing their identity and creating false publicity using arma reforger a means of communication.

They are using photos, real names, exposing family and friends

[vivid wave]

Such harassment/doxxing is not our job unless it came through this server (publicly either/or DM), but likely Discord, better to report them directly

[clear marlin]

The user filed a complaint, but the lawyer first sent it to the media outlet where the problem originated, in this case the Doberman Studios server.

I understand, I know that toxicity is inevitable but they used Arma Reforger as a trigger for this problem, they continue to make explicit content about it and share it on social media.

[faint nacelle]

that becomes police matter I suppose

we handle only matters in this discord

[clear marlin]

It hasn't scaled that much but that's the point, we just want to avoid that kind of problems

I'll make the report then, thanks for the explanation

[open frost]

Hasn't it escalated that far? This guy is literally playing the victim after destroying the entire Hispanic community, stealing money from RHS, for which he's already received several warnings from the BI modding team.

Now he comes here saying we're the bad guys. After carrying out DDoS attacks, he threatened me directly on FB and is looking for any excuse to destroy what my community has achieved, leaving this 30-year-old baby aside.

I apologize for continuing with the topic, but I simply can't stay silent. I just want my server to thrive, but another guy comes along saying his mod was stolen just like mine. Believe me, it's quite infuriating, especially if it's the same guy who makes the same arguments just because he has psychological problems.

But as they say in my army, "give me solutions, not problems."

I propose that you silence me and this guy, Jic, so you can listen to and address Jimmy's case.

[clear marlin]

Lol

[restive inlet]

This guy isn't sane. He says they've exposed information about one of his members. But he actually passed along a photo with all of Doberman personal information.

[clear marlin]

Just send evidence of buying and selling mods, this is illegal in Arma Reforger, if this does not serve as evidence, i send it directly to technical support.

[manic laurel]

you may have missed this message.

[clear marlin]

I understand that, that's why I didn't continue with the topic. I will fix everything directly with Bohemian support.

[manic laurel]

(was meant for above)

[nimble gyro]

Not looking to snitch or anything, but just wanted to reach out and confirm this with the RHS folks.

To the untrained eye, I'd say that is 100% the model from Arma 3 which is being ported over into Reforger by another creator.

It is not my intention to witch hunt him or send y'all looking for his info, but more or less to hopefully clarify for him and let him know that the work he is doing might not be worth his time if it will just be removed right when he posts it.

I appreciate the time that everyone takes to clarify this for him and me.

Also looking to bring this to the attention of y'all incase you can do some action against this creator on CGTrader; as it seems it is taking advantage of folks who don't understand the whole "Game ready model" trope.

@echo orchid @native narwhal

[frigid heart]

ah luisb, classic

[echo orchid]

will be handled thanks

[hardy crane]

Do these models look sus? https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/vehicle/military-vehicle/btr-152-337c82f8-18e8-44ba-982d-47fd8197dcef

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/military/military-vehicle/btr-40-game-ready

[lofty steeple]

someone uploaded the Nimitz to steam workshop: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=596414636 What do I need to do to have it taken down there?

[tender hawk]

This is despite him assigning credit to you EDIT: instead of passing it off as his own work, I take it? If so, then sign into Steam and flag it with the icon in the lower right under the screenshot.

[lofty steeple]

Chortles, thanks, I'll wait til tomorrow and have a good nights sleep before taking any further action

[lilac bane]

Is it legal in reforger to make captures to the textures of another mod and upload them to yours without referencing the author (me in this case) or use it as a dependency?

I found a mod who has literally taken screenshots of my RHS retextures and uploaded them as his own to the workshop without even contacting me.

[lilac bane]

My textures uploaded since 8/8/24

The mod textures uploaded this afternoon, every spot of the camo is the same and is clearly a screenshot of mine (Look at the resolution, he dont even try to make it proportional)

[faint nacelle]

what license have you released your mod with?

[lilac bane]

Same as RHS

[faint nacelle]

and what does the original texture look like in comparison

[lilac bane]

This is the original

Is not the only one texture, he have it for uniforms and vest, all the same, screenshot with strange image proportions

[gusty ember]

For clarification this is unreleased content atm for this exact reason and I currently am unable to access my computer

To delete it. I think I published it but I don’t know how vehicle arsenal configs work so you can’t even use em. Guess I’m kinda fucked considering i can’t use my puter and I already have a strike for a fallout scenario I made a year ago 😭

[twin crane]

haha

he always gets everyone

BI is aware of Luis

known ripper

[coral torrent]

If the license does not permit credited reuploads then the answer is no. You may file a DMCA takedown against the mod then

[lilac bane]

Already did that through the game system, is not the first time this user do something like this, is know in the Spanish Community. Is it necessary to do it also through the web or something? This is the mod
https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/651A6C5B51F035F0-Spanish_Reorger_Mod_RHS

Seeing what he did with the textures of my mod, I'm surprised that the models are his own, I even think that the G36K he has is ripped, just look at the model in workbench

[lapis quiver]

He changed but ok

[twin crane]

Luis? Haha no

[lapis quiver]

He did. He made a model for me that is 100% legit.

But of course once someone gone bad means he is always bad

[twin crane]

That’s not the issue think about all the users that were punished because he wanted some cash

That doesn’t make you a good person after

[lapis quiver]

Most of his models dont even have interior so they are not even suitable for Arma at all.

[faint nacelle]

It seems he still offers ripped stuff for sale so doing something legit will not redeem him.

[lapis quiver]

So he shold get rid of all those models and do a fresh start ?

[faint nacelle]

Well. Yes?

That would be only way to start redeeming his reputation

[lapis quiver]

I see

I know defending someone who used to be bad is bad. But i can assure you, that guy is a very kind and helpful person.

So if he makes a fresh start and gets redeemed thats fair.

[coral torrent]

https://reforger.armaplatform.com/news/workshop-licenses-and-ip-faq all the way at the bottom. ingame reports are processed at low priority and may take a while

[faint nacelle]

Just don't defend him before there's properly something to defend. If he still sells rips, nothing has changed.

[lapis quiver]

Copy

[lapis quiver]

He said he got rid off all the ripped models a long time ago, the ones that are on his CG now are all 100% legit, he even offered to send the models so that RHS or the ones who dmcad him can check it

@echo orchid sorry to ping you, would you be open for a chat with Luis ?

[faint nacelle]

probably got wrong channel?

also english only in the chat

[lilac bane]

Done, let's hope this works and this user stops doing this nonsense, at least with public mods. Thanks!

[coral compass]

Too much time is spent talking about what's wrong rather than what's right around here, so let's try changing that:

Ryzhkov is imo the perfect example of what a trustworthy cgtrader creator looks like for using their work in Arma. Long time creator, with regular uploads of assets of a consistent (but growing) quality bar, based around a clear and specific niche, with lots of social credit accrued on the platform, with prices that clearly aren't too good to be true (but still a good deal!). They show their workings and process via their Youtube channel too.

Also already associated with and vouches for their work being used in arma reforger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRJX9uZ0TPE

[faint nacelle]

well, the channel is for discussing violations. so by nature the chat can be rather depressing in that sense

as unfortunate as that is

[wet cairn]

I can see that Luisb has deleted a lot of his listings, and that searching his username in Google -- it does appear that there has been a previous attempt at being a legitimate modeller.

However, the reputation is finished. He's scammed a lot of money out of people. That luisbcompany name is going to be tarnished forever.

And still, his listings are very suspiciously cheap or have a weird pricing pattern. $39.99 gets me a small radio, or entire vehicles? An extra $10 for something even mroe detailed?

I don't buy it.

[wet cairn]

I don't consider 2 months ago to be a "long time" > #ip_rights_violations message

[echo orchid]

? what for?

[lapis quiver]

To redeem himself, he even said he can send you the models to show proof that these are 1000% made by himself

[lapis quiver]

But false reporting legitimate models is fair to you ?

[wet cairn]

Honestly, given the amount of people he has screwed over, all the hundreds of hours wasted because of ripped models, I'm much more inclined to believe in the RHS team than anything from Luis.

If he wants to start fresh he should probably start by chosing a different name.

There doesn't really seem to be an earnest attempt at rebranding as a legitimate artist...

[lapis quiver]

He made models for me and a friend who is 1000% legitimate.

He worked for flightsims aswell

[wet cairn]

honest question, how can you be so sure of this?

The real danger with Luis is that he's obviously familiar enough with 3d modelling tools to know how to obfuscate certain details.

I hope for your sake it is as you say, 1000% legitimate, but if someone sells 9 scam products and claims the 10th is legit, I wouldn't trust it personally

[lapis quiver]

Because i saw WIP Pictures, he made the model exactly like i wanted, with changes if something was not right.

He used real life reference to model.

[wet cairn]

I hope you're right. But to me and I imagine most others, there's no way they will ever trust him on history alone. I have nothing else to add to this conversation beyond that

[echo orchid]

my dms are open

i only reported the models that were ripped

also, please stop defending proved rippers, thanks

[twin crane]

I love you

[stable orbit]

I'm curious, is the code stolen the code you are charging premium for? Or is this different code that was stolen?

[lilac venture]

copy past my code, almost everything

[stable orbit]

Is it because you are charging people for premium features?

[lilac venture]

no

[stable orbit]

Wonder why then

[rustic copper]

Because people think they can do anything that doesn't belong to them 🤷

[earnest trellis]

Where do I email about a server that paid for a mod they only use

[stable orbit]

I was being sarcastic haha, context:
||https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/64C4C79C66472DE8-DISCORD_MOD||

lil bit of summer sale as well:

if (Premium.isPremium() == false && Premium.runningPromotion())
 formattedMessage += "PREMIUM 25% OFF - Until April, 5th | HereGoesThePersonIWasRespondingTooPaymentLink";

[faint nacelle]

report to the infringement email thanks

[stable orbit]

yaa, all done now

[jovial crown]

what happen if the mod is just a connector to a bot, and the bot has premium features?

i mean the "premium" part its not in the game side ( im not saying this is the case, just asking)

[stable orbit]

I see your point, I would say something's (not just this) do cross into a grey area. So I can not offer you an answer on that unfortunately

[jovial crown]

imho if you can use the bot for basic use for free, and premium involves things like using the database ( store stuff like kills, playtime and other stuff)
its fine.
i dont know what says the EULA about "ads" in the game.

[molten kraken]

Displaying an advertisement is a commercial use of it's supports

[native narwhal]

It's bot allowed because you can't sufficiently disconnect the two. It's the same bad way to try to get around the ban as "I'll make the full mod for you, but only the model part in Blender is paid, the rest is free"

[lilac bane]

Hi, a few days ago I reported here and on BI's DMCA mail a report that a user had taken screenshots of my textures and used them as his own. I would like to know how to remove the report, since I have managed to reach an agreement with the author and he will use my mod as a dependency for the content he wants

[manic laurel]

Hi, you can email them again 🙂

[faint nacelle]

Power of communication 🦾

[crimson ingot]

Power of inside man

[lapis quiver]

@native narwhal there is a mod in GTA5 that uses RHS Stuff are you guys aware on this ?

[native narwhal]

Ni, send links pls

[flint geyser]

Haha whaaat

On second thought, I shouldnt be surprised

[lapis quiver]

I send it via DM

[fierce wagon]

Curious how many people works on the infringements team ?

[ruby galleon]

Whyd the Dragger mod get banned off the workshop?

[faint nacelle]

This is not why mod got banned channel.
We dont have that information

also the maker might have just removed it. youll have to ask from that direction what has happened

[wind fractal]

I would like to ask a clarifying question on Donations, is this okay to ask here?
Specifically in regards to people purchasing an asset and giving it to a mod team.

[faint nacelle]

giving bought asset is usually against its license

you would have to contact the seller to make sure thats ok

it is essentially you who buy yourself the right to use the asset

[wind fractal]

Tracking.. That makes sense.

[faint nacelle]

if explained many makers/sellers probably are fine with it.

but you cant do it without permission

[wind fractal]

So to lay it out cleanly.
If an asset is purchased by a person then permission requested and granted for them to offer that asset to the mod team, it is all within the acceptable bounds for Reforger?

[faint nacelle]

generally speaking that sounds like its ok. maker/seller has got their money and you have permission to transfer the license and asset you brought to a mod team to use. Im not in a position to give you a green light though 😅 I just moderate the discord

[wind fractal]

I'm tracking, I just want to be crystal clear as things are sort of muddy atm.
Of course the safe option is just to pay for it ourselves or use any money donated to do so.

[faint nacelle]

that would be less of a hassle

[paper prawn]

I would think (not being a lawyer) that a donation of a model - so long as it meets all the criteria of what is a donation - is no different from a cash one 🤔 BI's definition is Donation is a voluntary gift without any counter-value. You do not offer any perks or rewards for such donations and players do not expect anything back. This is allowed and does not require our approval.

That said, given the hassle of making sure that the mod people actually have permission from the licensor, it is a lot easier on a modder's side to just get a pure cash donation to cover the cost to license the model directly...

[wind fractal]

Yeah much less of a hassle just to use cash.

[faint nacelle]

3d asset licenses typically dont allow giving the material to anyone else. donation or sale

[plain drum]

Okay if I have a donations tab for my Milsim unit and under one of the incentives it says “we will make you a custom patch that you can wear in our server” is that breaking the no monetary modding rule?

No money would go directly to the modder only to the organization they are attached to

[paper prawn]

Yeah, that's not allowed, not a donation if you get something that others don't get

Not allowed under the server monetization policy not the modding no-monetization policy...

You could apply for server monetization and that would be not a problem, but then there would be certain mods that you cannot use unless you get explicit permission from them to do so, notably CUP mods (other than Terrains) and the RHS mods.

[rancid pine]

Definitely can’t because it’s transactional in a way

[native narwhal]

For the simple reason that the buyer would be able to "donate" the model to multiple people, undercutting the whole pay model of selling it on a marketplace in the first place.

[graceful willow]

Has Bohemia ever clarified why they don't currently support these actions and isn't interested in changing their licenses to do so?

Nvm, chatgpt came through on this one. 🙂

[prime stratus]

I’d like to enquire about something that I’m not sure of if it violates tos or not

If that’s ok

[manic laurel]

sure, the channel is here for that

[prime stratus]

So it involves a discord server

So it’s a command for checking a players lifetime stats on an in game server (kills, deaths, kd, stuff like that) yet it is only available to people who pay a monthly fee to it

I’m unsure if it violates TOS or not

I’ll get a screenshot

This isn’t the whole thing but it’s most of it

I’m just unsure on where it sits because as far as I’m aware it’s not available to other members of the discord

[paper prawn]

Reforger servers cannot be monetized at this time and this seems to be just a way to circumvent that tbh. Could ask Legal for a definitive answer though

[hardy crane]

Doesn’t affect anything In the game server though, it’s only a discord perk

[trail hollow]

Currently there is no differentiation between the two situations, people ask about that a lot

There have been suggestions by BI employees that at some point in the future (we don't know when) there will be revisions to allow server hosts to offer something but we don't know what that is for now

[molten kraken]

Look at the forwarded message

[midnight compass]

Server EULA says that you may not use the content or any parts of for comercial purposes. So no, @prime stratus. It is NOT allowed.

[prime stratus]

Cool

But if it were available to non paying members it would be?

[midnight compass]

If the perk stays there only if anybody pays then no

You can't for example keep the feature hostage if people do not pay/donate to it

[prime stratus]

So what if it was available to only specific non paying members? Like people who joined the server in a particular time frame

[midnight compass]

If there is any commercial transaction, for personal use or global/community use then it is not allowed. Plain and simple

[prime stratus]

So if it can be accessed through payment, then it’s not allowed

[flint geyser]

How do you enforce the no server monetization rule?

[prime stratus]

I’m assuming how it’s done now

Someone reports it to bi -> bi investigates -> any violations of tos or other stuff will be dealt with accordingly

I’ve never done this before just guessing that’s how it’s done

[prime stratus]

@midnight compass do I go ahead and use the email in the pins now?

[prime stratus]

Hang on I can’t find it

[stable orbit]

How about this? The mod got removed from WS, but now the bloke thinks just because the user is uploading the mod themselves, it is not against the rules?

[prime stratus]

So they’re selling the source code of a mod?

[stable orbit]

Yeah because they got banned when they had a paywall up for additional features, so now they give you instructions when you purchase

[prime stratus]

Yea that violates tos

The selling classes thing I’m not sure on personally

[stable orbit]

I mean you wouldn't be able to make the classes without workbench, so that's why I think it's a no no

[faint nacelle]

Also his work is banned so anyone reuploading it is ban evading.

[stable orbit]

But detecting it would prove to be a challenge, no?

[faint nacelle]

Sure. Probably so. But it's still that if he and his work has been banned.

[faint nacelle]

infringements is ok for that

[delicate grove]

So, I thought Road to Bakhmut by Stolen Liberty was banned?

If so, how is 75th allowed to run that?

Workshop ID: 652CFAA435286661

Defanged BattleMetrics URL w/ Modlist: hxxps[://]www.battlemetrics[.]com/servers/reforger/32444069

@stiff oasis, the mod publisher, for awareness.

[idle knoll]

since we are on the topic of a mod that was banned here some more
https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/652CFAA435286661-CCRTB and
https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/645A0B4EA9122291 and
https://reforger.armaplatform.com/workshop/64F6F39DEE09C0A7-Warforourhome/scenarios also here you go
https://youtu.be/nCmoaGPpYTc?si=50dMCWSQdBS4e9Ic

[delicate grove]

Any chance we could just use our old map again? Seems like enforcement isn't really a priority, unless I'm being presumptous and this was just missed before.

(And again, we do not associate with those people anymore)

[idle knoll]

I've posted these here because I've already reported all of these links to Mario and have been met with silence. I want to ensure that enforcement is being shared across the whole community. When we ran the map, even after making significant changes it still attracted unwanted attention like flies to shit.

If enforcement is no longer actively addressing this map, we need to know. Unfortunately, it's available on a public GitHub link, so anyone can download and republish it. This will be a never-ending cycle.

To be clear, I honestly don't care if we can't run it anymore—we’ve made plenty of other maps since then and are currently building an entirely new Bakhmut map from scratch. But can we please get an official and clear stance on this? Because right now, it looks like enforcement isn’t as strong or consistent as it used to be.

[faint nacelle]

as far as Im aware no bans been lifted. MarieE would need to chime in. Though I think he was out of office for spell there so things are probably slow because of that

[delicate grove]

Ah, appreciate it. Hope he's doin' ok. No rush, just seeking clarity 🫡

[faint nacelle]

At earliest there could be answer tomorrow office hours

but could be later too

[faint nacelle]

I am guessing from previous experience that bans like that dont get lifted to actually give some gravity to the punishment.

[delicate grove]

ack

[young latch]

some assets that stolen liberty was using was banned, not the actual map.

The map isn't the problem, it was some of the assets being used at the time.

Using that logic, nobody can use real life locations as maps.

Therefore chernarus would also be banned, which its not.

(yes chernarus is based off of a real place too, or a mixture of real places)

[stiff oasis]

The map was open source! Assets such as the arsenal and others were banned. If the DEVS had an issue with an open source map it would have been removed. If I'm in the wrong for using an Open Source Map then so be it. I'm not sure why you guys are so butt hurt about a map that is free to use is being used?

[trail hollow]

respectfully I'd just let them discuss it, I don't think these comments will help your case. but the open source nature of it is kind of irrelevant here, one would be able to make the case that people monetized their labor in enfusion, therefor the open source content is still "poisoned".

[faint nacelle]

if I recall right it was all the work as a whole

the them was not the issue, what the banned developers did was.

and Opensourcing it later dont matter.

[young latch]

So in theory, if someone did RTB from scratch thats still a no-go?

[faint nacelle]

if its exact match then probably as it would be hard to prove its done from scratch

the theme of the map was not a problem though

I would recommend gettin some different piece of land nerby and making map out of that

theres plenty of ground to choose from

[young latch]

I get where you're coming from, but I feel like RTB was also a very popular map as well. I don't feel like it does justice to cut losses and try some nearby areas as it wouldn't have the same playstyle as RTB does.

[faint nacelle]

popularity plays no part in it

ban means ban and is there to keep people from breaking rules

[young latch]

I personally don't see anything wrong with RTB. Not picking sides here, but sure maybe the devs did stuff they weren't supposed to. Doesn't mean that we have to shame the map. Reforger was meant to be highly modable with being mods shared etc.

Thats the way I see it at least

[faint nacelle]

nothing wrong with the theme of the map like I said

just the author(s)

and when authors get banned like that, all their work go

and their work cant be given to someone else to avoid the ban

[young latch]

To be fair, do you know how many stolen assets are currently being used in reforger?

[faint nacelle]

no I dont

but you can report such to the email at the top

or their owners so they can DMCA

the rules still stand and people who get caught get their punishments

simple as that

[young latch]

A good portion of these models people are using, whether it be vehicles, structures, boxes or even weapons are more than likely stolen. It's just hard to track down the source of the original content.

Not saying its every mod out there.

[faint nacelle]

[young latch]

If popular maps start being banned, the overal population of reforger will drop significantly. 👀

[faint nacelle]

doubtful

and mod popularity is no factor

you just need to accept this

theres no way around it

[young latch]

I've never said that mod popularity has a factor in whether the map is banned or not

[faint nacelle]

then what are you saying?

is there any point?

[young latch]

Not what you think I'm saying. I think you're trying to push it to something it isn't. I came here with some observations and that's that. There's nothing more to it.

[faint nacelle]

no rambling then if theres nothing to discuss

[native belfry]

All the custom assets on the map are banned.

he didnt use any dependencies all his own models

[young latch]

Reworded what I said. The map used both vanilla assets and modded assets. modded assets were banned, resulting in the map being banned.

[native belfry]

yeah i get that but a majority of what was used was custom assets

[faint nacelle]

anyway

[idle knoll]

u guys can argue back and forth all you want the Whole map in itself is banned regardless of open source we went thru this all before when SpearHead had the map live on all our server Stolen liberty then broke ToS which cause his account to be banned which includes all mods he made and assets used to be banned

i have fought this battle for awhile and we didn't win regardless of the open source battle everything including the map is banned per BI

[faint nacelle]

that.

Id say the matter has concluded for the night. BI folks need to chime in at the links above

[carmine folio]

does this also mean Ram has to remove his work from RHS? and the version of shervika also up has to be removed?

[faint nacelle]

I dont think Ram has been fully banned. just the mod in question

but that thing may need some time to be resolved.

Id recommend just waiting for now.

[carmine folio]

he and his mods are completely banned off the workshop.

all of his mods are gone

[ruby galleon]

yeh whys seriivka still up then

[delicate grove]

Fantastic question, but doesn't need answers right now or anything. Just has been lingering with us for a while, too.

[idle knoll]

great question

[young latch]

exquisite question

[mild knoll]

Magnificent inquiry

[nimble gyro]

Transcendent proposition

[coral torrent]

No. As long as RHS mods do not reupload the violating content (which they sure won't) there is no reason. We just stopped him individually from publishing anything as he seemingly can not be trusted with control over mods

[left abyss]

So, Ram’s friends can reupload banned mods without “violating content”?

[manic laurel]

no - read above #ip_rights_violations message Mario's comment

[left abyss]

No TvT in reforger, understandable

[manic laurel]

I don't get it?

[left abyss]

Rams banned for “malicious” content in lobby, which used for normal TvT functionality in game without normal session modes

[manic laurel]

if it was the act of only one person, that this person was moved away from the project, and that the project is now clean, it is a possibility to revert back to a "clean" status for a mod
when a whole team rips things however, it is very hard to not to be suspicious and to believe them when they say the project is clean - and that's a per-case decision whether BI trusts them or not

Wheaton's Law, as usual

[coral torrent]

Not sure what you meant with TvT? Anyone uplading his or similar maliciuous DRM mechanims into their mods will be banned. That is a simple rule to follow. We do not care about the rest of the contents of the mod in question.

[left abyss]

what legal options are there to protect content from unfair use?

[coral torrent]

I wrote a whole blog post about this: https://reforger.armaplatform.com/news/workshop-licenses-and-ip-faq

[midnight compass]

The map was made open source with assets that they did not have permission to distribute like that, it is not only banned because of the group actions but because of IP rights issues as well.

@idle knoll Thank you for the reports, they will be dealt with soon.

[twin crane]

Running a mod vs making one are 2 different things

Mods are public. And to be used unless stated otherwise. You cannot privatize a mod. If someone does my bet is Mario would knock on your door.

Specific EULAs state individuals cannot use mods or restrict access or use in general but tbh it’s never enforced

Everything is changing and constantly being altered I believe bohemias ToS will change down the road too for reforger just a matter of how things are handled a lot of disconnected points at times