💣┇weapons-gadgets

[chilly granite]

@tardy light you were asking how much stuff there is to learn in Dota but dotas a complex game https://youtube.com/shorts/6G1pA8sAeNc?is=4ZBmmzriHfNM-iI2

[indigo nexus]

They nerfed its damage again since then, I don't think it was staying at that damage value. Nor was that patch the one that kicked it out of the meta, so I won't accept that the winch claw is stopping it from being viable due to this.

[slow linden]

It needed a harsh range nerf,the last thing it needed was a damage nerf,we could argue the cycle time nerf,but it's damage was integral to it being a functional weapon with an actual niche,now its just kinda shit

[chilly granite]

Drywall, if the repeater was op, a repeater on heavy is even more op

[candid vessel]

I wish at least the shak would get the same treatment. And M11 too.

[chilly granite]

The bfr still has a niche, the question is just if you find value in that niche

[slow linden]

Because of its RANGE

[chilly granite]

The bfr is still the only accurate high hit damage weapon on heavy

[slow linden]

I don't want it to be repeater on heavy,I want it to be what it is,revolver on heavy

[chilly granite]

It was never revolver on heavy

[slow linden]

But it should have been

[chilly granite]

That's an entirely separate issue and argument from winch claw balance /bfr titan nerfs

[slow linden]

It should have been reworked,not panic nerfed into the floor

[candid vessel]

Nah ks23 is too

[chilly granite]

Ks23 is absolutely not accurate enough to contest an s84 with heavy

[slow linden]

Even if it was revolver but on heavy,it would still have been nerfed around winchclaw

[candid vessel]

Bfr aint beating an sr84 at sniper range anyway

[chilly granite]

It is good for around 35m max and then it's just a mistake

Bfr is a lot more likely to do so than the ks23

[slow linden]

It did and still does

[candid vessel]

Which is like every fight apart from final rounds and Monaco

[slow linden]

The range nerf wasn't harsh enough,the other nerfs were too much

[candid vessel]

If the sr84 is being used by stevie wonder yh

[chilly granite]

Nerfing a 2x hs multi weapon around breakpoints like winch would've been a lot less harmful anyway because it's still 1+1

[slow linden]

It's most oppressive use is now its only use

[slow linden]

Winchclaw is in the way,they need to remove cc from it

I don't want it to pull people,I want it's short cooldown back,it's in the way of proper weapon balancing,it will only ever be in the way

[candid vessel]

I have so much experience with both the bfr and sniper. If a BFR is beating a sniper past 30M, that sr84 needs to pull out an m11 cause they ASS

[slow linden]

They both only need to hit 2 shots up to like 40 meters

[chilly granite]

Tbh neither should die because both should be smart enough not to ego peek

[candid vessel]

Sr84 has a super quick ads time and much better sights, even ignoring the zoom, as the crosshair lines are super thin on the lens

[chilly granite]

Optics dependence is a skill issue

[tardy light]

I Have no idea what this is

[candid vessel]

Trying to headshot someone when they’re far enough away that the red dot covers almost their entire body is slightly impractical

[tardy light]

You clearly haven’t met the charge and slam heavy I met in solo queue today.

[candid vessel]

Bfr with cns goes hard tho

[tardy light]

Charge into room of 3 people, “team wtf stop being scared”

[chilly granite]

One character used an item that gives infinite attack range, but only on the enemy you attacked

Teleported to base, and attacked the enemy creep

Their ally then possesed the enemy creep, and gobbled them up

Teleported to their ally near the enemy base

Un-gobblrd the enemy creep jnthe enemy's base

Just in time for the attacks to land and kill the enemy hero in their base

God Dota is complicated as fuck

[candid vessel]

Bruh 😭. Id get what he was on about if one was dead, he pushed and killed another leaving only the third, but a room with 3 people? Insanity

[chilly granite]

And that's just hero interactions between two characters and 2 items

You can imagine with 128 characters and however many items

[slow linden]

True,but sniper players always ego peek,and titan players barely exist anymore so I couldn't tell you if they ego peek,but the few times I have in recent memory it's genuinely a 50/50,players of equal skill,titan vs sr84

[candid vessel]

Ego peek comments are 100% accurate, but in my experiences on both sides of a sniper v bfr fight at 30+ metres the sniper almost always wins

[slow linden]

Maybe you're just better than the average titan player

[candid vessel]

Yh but im also better w titan than basically everyone i see using it, and snipers are beating me from deep

But yh good point

[slow linden]

The point is that titan is more than usable against sniper and that's a bad thing,it should be like revolver but on heavy,not sniper with irons and reflex sights but on heavy

[tardy light]

I mean it’s not like it’s necessarily always a bad idea but we had no comms. I even asked if he can join comms and he said no. So he just expected us to read his mind and follow him immediately. Not gonna happen with no comms. You can’t take risky plays like that

[slow linden]

Then they held a better angle,or were just better than you are at titan I guess

Revolver on heavy with slightly lower fire rate and only 5 shots would be more than fair imo

[candid vessel]

Yeah w no comms especially thats a bad move

[candid vessel]

I think they felt like it needed to be more range focused in order to not basically be a ks23 with less base damage and crits

[meager plover]

how should i be playing with revolver

[tardy light]

cowboy hat necessary

[eager wasp]

clicking on enemy heads

[meager plover]

🤔

[slow linden]

Two weapons having similar range and use but one being notably better isn't an uncommon thing,m60 and lewis,akm and fcar,xp54 and arn220,why not extend that to something that isn't an automatic weapon,autos shouldn't be the only things allowed to have sister weapons on the same archetype

[slow linden]

Not always,I use this fit on my revolver build

[slow linden]

And it slaps so fucking hard

[tardy light]

that dragon flame might be fire with the new ltm cosmetics and the dragon mask in the store. not sure

[slow linden]

Maybe,not sure,I won't be running fits like that with flame

Also I don't really like that the helmet is open faced but doesn't allow facial accessories

[tardy light]

i havent seen what it looks like yet together but i am excited to try it out when i finish the wheel

is there no way to preview things together?

[slow linden]

No,but you could try it with the dragon armor from last seasons battle pass

[tardy light]

that would be such a nice qol feature. along with opening up the cosmetics to stop hiding things not currently available. let us see all the drip

[slow linden]

Would give a similar vibe

[tardy light]

its not the same it doesnt have that bone to it ya know

oh you can save by adding to cart but only if its purchaseable

[slow linden]

I know it's not the same,bit it's similar enough to give yourself a taste of what can be,but nothing more

[tardy light]

maybe.. idk

[slow linden]

Did you edit that?

[tardy light]

No what’s wrong with it?

[slow linden]

How get armor

[tardy light]

I previewed the helmet by “adding to cart” then hovered over the chest plate. I technically edited by cropping it

[slow linden]

Ohh

[tardy light]

It’s all preview. Done in the outfit menu. Not in the character customization menu

[slow linden]

Huh,odd,fit looks fine tho

[tardy light]

I’ve just been running the same “I have no idea what I’m doing” casual fit for weeks I need to spice things up

[slow linden]

Fair enough

[muted condor]

Iv made a bunch but nothing still beats my og fit Iv had for ages

[lone charm]

the business suit + silly headwear combo my beloved

it never gets old truly

[slow linden]

It truly is a timeless classic

[lone charm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1502774719563305082/image.png?ex=6a00ef85&is=69ff9e05&hm=f37311cda42cf66fdb8e01070bc36154313ea44666fa5c5e5a12a07da1a6b6b1&

i'm similar but i took the vibes in a different direction

[slow linden]

Honse

[lone charm]

https://tenor.com/view/peter-griffin-peter-horse-family-guy-lois-griffin-gif-27498457

[shadow roost]

how about reducing MGL fire rate but making it explode on 1st impact? the similarity to the CL-40 wouldn't be anything new, other weapons have similar counterparts
keep mag size and damage the same
I think I saw Embark saying they are thinking about reworking the MGL, not sure what else would be an option

[indigo nexus]

exploding on 1st impact is just terrible, kills what made the weapon cool and unique

[slow linden]

The bounces are good and fun,it should just boom on contact with a player,maybe make it have a really long fuse like demo man's gl in tf2

[chilly granite]

@indigo nexus btw you might like this guy hes done some stats analysis on complex items in Dota https://youtu.be/fG7ZeGmOkMc?is=cbWOOG80n9HVtlPM

[unkempt moss]

BombKing

[sudden pewter]

Removes the weaknesses of the weapon. No.

[pearl wyvern]

Please allow barricades to be placed on walls and roofs 😭😭😭

[unkempt moss]

Oh

[sudden pewter]

If the rework is going to be anything I suspect it’ll be direct hits causing the grenade to detonate

It would address the inability to defend oneself from a dive while retaining the few weaknesses keeping it in check.

Why such a simple change has taken over a year is anyone’s guess.

Maybe S12 will finally be the season…

[unkempt moss]

Got it

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, really hoping S12 is everything Embark says it’ll be. A turning point for not only the game, but for Embark.

[unkempt moss]

Definitely

[trail oar]

Buff the revolver

[sudden pewter]

The revolver is an absolutely amazing weapon and doesn’t require any buffs.

[trail oar]

Fr I enjoy the gun so much but its better to get like a few more ammo

[unkempt moss]

That would remove the weakness of the gun.

[slow linden]

Embark lazy,write four line of code,take 6 month vacation

[slow linden]

I hope you're not talking about mediums revolver

[trail oar]

Erm yes

[slow linden]

Ew you are,also ew that'd not feel right at all to use

[trail oar]

? Whats wrong with the medium revolver bruh

[slow linden]

Nothing is wrong with mediums revolver it's like the most balanced gun in the game,what you're asking for would make it not that

[trail oar]

Mb gng didn't know the gun was balanced

[slow linden]

https://tenor.com/view/the-more-you-know-the-mo-you-know-gif-13439323

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-light-light-the-finals-gif-11038048303461940379

[sudden pewter]

If you make the same mistake again it will be costly.

[brisk otter]

Learning dagger feels painful but when you do good its awsome

[slender bear]

Trickstabs are the lowkey the only thing that puts Dagger above Spear
They're basically mandatory

[candid vessel]

Tbf a slightly higher falloff multiplier would be nice. Like it shouldn’t be a pocket sniper but the worst in the game by far is a tad silly

[slow linden]

Idk man I can snipe with regular revolver

[candid vessel]

So can i but it does 6 damage

[slow linden]

Nah

I have killed lights from across the map with it it does like 40 full falloff

60 to the head I think

[candid vessel]

No it doesn’t

[slow linden]

Not reliably fuck no,just got lucky a couple times

[candid vessel]

It does 29

[slow linden]

To the body yeah?

[candid vessel]

No?

[slow linden]

Also a usable amount of damage with that fire rate against a light

So again,I shouldn't have been using it that way,and got very lucky

[candid vessel]

It takes all 6 shots

[slow linden]

It's doable

[candid vessel]

If they’re afk yh

[slow linden]

Nah

[wild plume]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyEa102AT7w
They should make this into a reload, or at least Inspect animation, for the SR-84. Maybe even make some skins of other weapons that add a bolt action.

Finals really hasn't even touched on some of the cursed things they can do to weapons. Imagine an smg with a bolt action cycle...

[slow linden]

If they're ego peeking and miss ,I used to do it like twice a game when I was playing power shift a lot(huge mistake powershift fucking sucks)

[candid vessel]

Honestly theres so many weapons that need cool animations. A stripper clip reload for the LH1 could be 2K MB and id still buy it

[candid vessel]

Powershift is kinda cheeks

[sudden pewter]

Powershift as a gamemode is ruined by the existence of Lights SR84

[candid vessel]

And the fact that there isn’t a limit to how much stuff can be placed on the platform

[slow linden]

And they get mad at me and message me slurs when I beam them with famas or revolver : (

[candid vessel]

10 barricades and aps turrets all at once is a bit much

[candid vessel]

*having enough of those things to amass 10 things placed on the platform

[candid vessel]

Powershift has the most toxic players istf

Like calm down bro its a meme gamemode why tf we taking it so seriously 😭😭

[tardy light]

I had someone flame the team in snowball fight

They really wanted to finish the LTM wins contract lmao.

[slow linden]

They're playing sniper to win,not because they actually like the gun 😂

[candid vessel]

That is next level bum behaviour

[remote tartan]

WOW

[candid vessel]

Actually so sad

[somber tiger]

I can't count the number of teammates that act like there's money on the line in unranked cashout.

[tardy light]

Those are the people who think emerald is a rank

I play my silly spear and they’re like “bro I’m trying to rank up”

[somber tiger]

Funny enough it's usually heal beam mediums

[candid vessel]

And these days its so easy because the seasons are like 3 weeks longer and you always get at least 1 or 2 points

[candid vessel]

😭😭😭

[tardy light]

I hit emerald one like 2 weeks ago and a good half of it was point break haha but I also play way too much recently

[candid vessel]

People who main bum beam need to be carried and aren’t any good themselves, thats why they do it

[candid vessel]

Yh same i hit emerald 1 in just under 5 weeks

[slow linden]

That's honestly why I get so mad at fcar players,the scar is ugly,no one genuinely likes the scar,the stock looks like an ugg boot and it's prohibitively expensive when you could just get an ar 10 and it'd look nicer,be cheaper and do the same thing,but outside of that real ar fans use famas or akm,or even shak cause it honestly is a fun and interesting weapon it's just winchclaw ruins it

[somber tiger]

Every heal beam user I've encountered is either toxic with 0 kills or completely silent and getting top combat and support

[candid vessel]

The fcar has lost its one defining feature, because now every gun has optics. Seasons 1-3 genuinely liking it was slightly mire justifiable

[candid vessel]

Oh absolutely theres never any inbetween

[slow linden]

I could see that,but it was always annoying imo

[somber tiger]

The fcar also used to have insane dps with a tiny mag size like the revolver

[slow linden]

Also the looking glass sight is so clean on the akm

[wild plume]

man I hate how utterly mid the dragonbone skin is. I have no idea they F**ked up something skyrim did better two decades ago. It's basically just normal plate armor that someone strapped dragon bone to, making the layering and depth to the skin rather poor.

It has like zero presence on Heavy, especially. They didn't even give it an actual dragon helmet. The helmet contibutes much more on literally any other medieval set except the one it was made for, so you have to invest in the actual dragon helmet in the shop if you want to go all in on it.

[candid vessel]

I once won a game with like 13 kills and this beam user was crashing out at me and my other teammate because apparently we were bad? (Guy had zero kills died constantly and provided zero support)

[candid vessel]

Oh 100% ive been a hater since day 1 but back in the day i can kinda understand the appeal

[slow linden]

Shit only had like 20 bullets no?

[somber tiger]

yeah, and akm had 36

they used to be unique

[candid vessel]

Yeah i honestly kinda wish theyd go back to the 25/20 setup and take some rpm off

[slow linden]

And akm was based,and still is imo

Akm maintained its identity for the most part,fcar did not

[candid vessel]

Maybe its deliberate to get people to spend more money

[slow linden]

Run one of the dragon helmets from last season with it

[wild plume]

Hm. Not a terrible idea.

[slender bear]

I know the concept of a decoy spec isn't exactly new, but wouldn't it be cool if they applied the pathfinding they're working on for the bot mode to it, and gave it the defib startup when deployed?

[candid vessel]

That could be cool

[slender bear]

They can use the basic hologram figure that's used in a few legendary emotes as a placement indicator

[tardy light]

the fact that the shop complements the free set is definitely intended lol

[slender bear]

I like the idea of just having a permanent decoy up that actually runs to objectives alongside the team, it would be pretty easy to tell who's real based on mannerisms but it would be funny to see a team of 6 running to the objective in quick cash

At the same time though, I'm fully expecting Embark to create a decoy that uses the old practice range dummy model and constantly emits a screeching noise in case anyone might get fooled

[unkempt moss]

It would be cool. A clone like Yoru, probably without the flash, that you can set and then deploy on command would be awesome.

[candid vessel]

Another reason pyro is love pyro is life

[sturdy cape]

Anyone know if the dual blades dash tech is still in the game?

[eager wasp]

the what now

[sturdy cape]

demo'd in this vid from 2 weeks ago, I havent found any metnion in patch notes that it was removed but unsure if it was shadow removed or not https://youtu.be/1MmxxiHzDMQ?t=528

[last steeple]

isnt it a red square ?

why doesnt it work 🧍‍♂️

hell nah

[mighty nymph]

cleared !

[versed finch]

yay

[sudden pewter]

It works, it’ll auto remove itself to signify the ticket was made

🟥 using this reaction reports whatever it’s attached to

[last steeple]

it didnt when I said ts 🧍‍♂️

[sudden pewter]

Skill issue 🤷‍♂️

Works for me and the mods told me to use it instead of demanding the head of spammers while pinging them

[slow linden]

It's supposed to immediately dissappear

[last steeple]

yeah I know lol

[slow linden]

https://tenor.com/view/sonion-gif-4370030053602687111

[stoic garden]

i reported a guy once and within minutes bro got stoned

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071067310766436372/1327328945678450779/caption.gif

Use your words.

Christ I regret checking the profile

[slow linden]

I hate that i had to read that too

[sudden pewter]

Goteem

[sudden pewter]

Hnnnngh I need MELVIN

[alpine sphinx]

Are people actually upset about the vanish bomb nerf or is reddit just being reddit as always?

[sudden pewter]

The outline is quite conservative so I’m gunna use it on Dagger Light

[umbral cliff]

It got nerfed again?

[alpine sphinx]

Last Thursday it got nerfed, idk what you mean by "again"

[umbral cliff]

I mean again as in invisibility itself got nerfed way back when.

[alpine sphinx]

Cloak nerf isn't equal to vanish nerf

Vanish should be weaker and cloak should be slightly stronger

[umbral cliff]

Kinda nerf was it? I use it a lot for disengaging but I don't really pay too much attention to changes.

[alpine sphinx]

1s shorter duration and 3s longer cooldown

[umbral cliff]

Ah ok so I thought I was just being impatient with the cooldown. Shit actually isna little slower. I straight up didn't notice the duration though.

[umbral cliff]

Doesn't seem that bad.

[tardy light]

any nerf = bitchin

[umbral cliff]

Bitchin good or bitchin bad?

[tardy light]

also,
any buff = bitchin
no changes = bitchin

[tardy light]

bitchin complainin

[umbral cliff]

Figures.

[candid vessel]

Ngl i think vanishing needed a nerf, because no amount of cloak buffs could ever justify using it over vanishing bomb and dash. However nerfing VB and not buffing cloak is stupid, and they shouldve done both simultaneously

[indigo nexus]

I don’t know about that idea. I can’t identify a clear reason why that would need to be the case, and it got buffed recently anyway. The fact that vanish bomb was nerfed now instead of then seems irrelevant.

I agree that a nerf made sense though; it was basically always present among players of most skill levels as far as I could tell, and I’m under the impression that it was considered viable up at the top too.

As a player who just doesn’t win TTK fights most of the time it was an invaluable fight reset tool to me so never left my loadout. Probably will still be there now.

[candid vessel]

I mean tbh its not that big of a change. You just gotta be slightly more mindful and reposition a bit quicker while invisible

[sudden pewter]

I like that VB offers the utility of cloak to teamates, and is very clearly supposed to be used selflessly (it lasts longer on teamates than it does the light with it equipped) but unfortunately it’s largely used selfishly by lights. Embarks decision to nerf it’s selfish use-case while leaving its team utility untouched is a good play.

[cosmic patio]

Is anyone running proximity sensors rn? I pair them with the model and I find they are awesome for hitting peak shots in close fights

[sudden pewter]

That being said, cloak(spec) has been needing some changes for a very long time. Dash will always be king, but cloak needs something to make it stand out from the vanishing bomb.

[candid vessel]

Yes absolutely not touching the teammate cloak time was a good move

[candid vessel]

Absolutely

[sudden pewter]

Giving Light a speed boost(while cloaked) is dumb, cloak is clearly designed to be an ambush tool as running makes the hum significantly louder and makes them more visible. Off the cuff I’d propose Light being able to see enemies within a certain radius of themselves akin to a sonar grenade while they’re in deep cloak. It wouldn’t be visible to teamates (sonar fulfills that) but it could be enough utility for the Light themselves to properly time an ambush or make a decision on whether they should engage or not.

[chilly granite]

yes, it was considered basiucally the only valid alternative to glitch in hgih skill

for some reason in like 90% of my games recently I have crippling lag

aws needs to fix their shit

[stoic garden]

I've been completely fine today so idk man

is it really aws

[indigo nexus]

AWS outages take the game down but we don't know that that's who they rent their servers from

[stoic garden]

we need fbi agents to know anything about this game ngl

[indigo nexus]

for some reason, whoever the servers are owned by, sometimes packets are just not being routed through sensible paths for users connecting from some places, which is really weird

[stoic garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1317185703075119165/1503090479175307334/image.png?ex=6a021598&is=6a00c418&hm=a1d92ce890f3678ead0bf9018c6566aa4daecbaaf35682320532cb03e36c280b& like what does this mean

[indigo nexus]

More zoom than normal, I guess

[stoic garden]

give me a NUMBER

[indigo nexus]

it might be the phrase for 2x optics but I don't know

I haven't played in a couple of weeks, just look at the wiki for zoom levels

[sudden pewter]

Real shit S12 will be nothing but QoL for the equipment menu and I’ll be totally fine with that

[stoic garden]

real shit why cant it be now lol

[indigo nexus]

For S12 they’ll replace the balance pipeline with Grok, and we will like it.

[unkempt moss]

When you slam an energy drink right before you take a nap, fall asleep before the caffiene hits. Thats called an ultra nap.

Little tech for you guys.

[tardy light]

yep
1.5x = slight
2x = enhanced
2.25x = strong

[slow linden]

3 meter limit

[sudden pewter]

It needs something to differentiate it from vanishing bomb, information seems obvious to me since on a macro level Light is supposed to be effective at scouting. Another very shallow idea is to perhaps have it cloak nearby teamates if the light is sprinting? It obviously wouldn’t be effective near enemy players but would perhaps have some use on the approach?

[slow linden]

I agree,3 meters is like a whole room tho,if you hug walls you can say backstab people around doorways

(Maybe 5 meters?)

[sudden pewter]

If it’s a cloak spec I don’t mind that, namely because as it stands the current dagger is slower than a Heavy, their only viable window would be when one is entering a room through a door

[slow linden]

Yea

[sudden pewter]

The only dagger I have issues with is dash dagger due to latency. Cloak dagger is a non-issue

[slow linden]

Dash dagger is dork shit ngl

[candid vessel]

Speaking of the latency issues have gotten 3 times as frequent since the last update

[sudden pewter]

Hell, now that I’ve started using Dagger myself I agree it could use some buffs. Perhaps more centered on QoL as the angle definitely doesn’t need to be increased, but a tap for the backstab would be nice, and I agree with Gelz that the animations should be silent. If not for everyone then at least for enemy contestants!

[slow linden]

Straight up tf2 spy? The wind ups kinda dumb

[sudden pewter]

The wind up is what keeps it in line. TF2 spy isn’t comparable beyond the surface level observation that both have knives

Completely separate game with completely separate balancing with completely different designs and combat pacing

[slow linden]

The fights have about the same pace,finals just has longer grace periods,health is similar,damage that things do is similar

That's about it though

[tardy light]

tf2 spy cant dash or teleport

well... there is the teleporter. but u know what i mean

[slow linden]

Dash is like winchclaw it holds light back

[sudden pewter]

TF2 spy is not comparable to Light. One is an actual assassin, the other is a glass cannon. One is dead the moment you’re aware of them, the other can fight toe to toe with the games frontliner. One’s survivability comes from being unnoticed, and has tools specifically designed to blend into an enemy team, the other survives by staying mobile.

[tardy light]

yea probably

[slow linden]

True enough

[sudden pewter]

Some tourist had the balls to suggest Light get a disguise kit, because TF2 spy has one and they couldn’t comprehend why it would work in one game and not the other.

[slow linden]

I would notice if my team of 3 had an extra person

[sudden pewter]

Call me a hater but I couldn’t be CM for more than 3 minutes because I’d be making custom roles to give people like a dunce cap.

[stoic garden]

https://youtu.be/nwnofCUQ-I0

[sudden pewter]

Exactly, there’s no use-case where cloak or vanish bomb doesn’t do the exact same thing but better.

[tardy light]

that bug is hilarious

[slow linden]

If anything give light a gadget that let's him hack turrets and mines and heal orbs

[sudden pewter]

Because that’s what turret needs, another counter

Lights should be punished for not paying attention, mines and other counters to lights limitless mobility shouldn’t be touched.

[unkempt moss]

I suggested reshaper go to light a while back. I still think it would be more useful for lights.

[stoic garden]

make lockbolt choke you to death if you get pulled back too much

[slow linden]

Turret just needs a giga buff,I just want to steal mines,no matter what archetype they put it on

Then again a hacking gadget would fit medium better

[tardy light]

make the lockbolt anchor carryable and yeetable

[slow linden]

Heal orb and barrels exists

[tardy light]

too attenuated, i want to lock bolt a light, then pick up the anchor, and quick melee + throw launch them into the sun

im so torn between lewie and beagles right now

[slow linden]

Give heavy a gravity gun spec,honestly just replace winch with that

[shell sonnet]

from some other game i assume?

[tardy light]

no way..

[shell sonnet]

at most what i can think of is whatever that thing in half life is, never played

[tardy light]

light mains crying when heavy gets their 5th spec

[unkempt moss]

I was surprised they have a hard CC spec to medium over heavy.

[slow linden]

https://tenor.com/view/mind-blast-shocked-omg-wow-mind-blown-gif-5194406635956370896

[slow linden]

I want to pluck rockets out of the air and return them,I want to thundercunt barrels at people,I want to throw mines and grenades back at people too

I want to throw chairs at people for 80 damage

I want to steal the cashout in a different way

[sick cloud]

i wish for one change to the minigun and one change only, the gun should start firing immediately upon pressing left click, speeding up as the barrel accelerates

[tardy light]

the inspect anim shouldve been spinning the barrel like a fidget toy

[sick cloud]

this is true as well.

[slow linden]

No,this would be bad,however we should get an M2browning as a sister weapon to the minigun

[slow linden]

That'd be sick

https://tenor.com/view/m2-browning-gunfire-komradekatt-gif-4968570010303144074

[sick cloud]

why would it be bad? it just makes sense (and appropriate for the M134) that it'd begin firing the moment the trigger is pulled, it's a small change that realistically would affect very little besides drop the skill floor for the minigun just a wee bit and give you a small fighting chance if you're caught by surprise

[slow linden]

@sudden pewter

Tell him

[sick cloud]

also how in god's name are you going to balance that

[slow linden]

I'm lazy

[sick cloud]

them

[slow linden]

K cool

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

We gotta add a role requirement to this channel ong. This is the type of shit I’d expect in #👂┇game-feedback

[sick cloud]

i'm waiting to be told

[slow linden]

Way lower fire rate,insane recoil,almost oppressively so,less spread than minigun,more per shot damage,more per shot destruction damage,harsher movement penalties,lower ammo,probably like 150 or 200 instead of 300

When I say harsh recoil I mean you would need to pull down hard as fuck while firing

[sick cloud]

i mean it would be pretty much uncontrollable, maybe if you tap fire it could work but i don't see any way that it'd be in any way viable in that state

honestly i'm pretty sure if it'd have appropriate recoil it would be absolutely unusable on controller

[slow linden]

I mean some would just barrel stuff you with it like how people deal with m11 recoil even though m11 is no where near the recoil I'm asking for

[slow linden]

This is entirely wrong,people play high sens on controller,I am one of them

[sudden pewter]

40m Winch.

[sick cloud]

this was insane

[stoic garden]

40m????

[sudden pewter]

Insanely stupid yes.

[slow linden]

https://tenor.com/view/mining-pakistani-pakistani-miner-pakistani-mining-coal-gif-1265210761147612079

[sick cloud]

no but actually drywall said that you'd tell me why my idea for the M134 is bad, i'm still waiting, i've got to go to bed soon

[sick cloud]

i mean we're talking near-titan recoil at prooobably ~500-600 rpm for game balance reasons

[stoic garden]

i kinda like this actually

[sudden pewter]

The strengths the weapon offers are offset but its required setup time. (Referring to the spool)
It’s important that this remains intact to give enemies opportunities to kill the Heavy if they’re caught with their pants down.

[stoic garden]

allows silly finals-like gameplay, but idk if you should really be able to reach 40m

[sick cloud]

that being said i'd totally use the m2 since i loooove high recoil battle rifles in most FPS games and i would assume that it would behave somewhat similarly to those considering finals has fairly little recoil

[sudden pewter]

Furthermore, while movement is greatly limited while spooled it isn’t eliminated. Retaining momentum by sliding and jumping is part of the skill expression for the Minigun.

[slow linden]

Yeah,and it'd be based,way more guns should be balanced by insane (vertical)recoil imo

[sudden pewter]

2s windup means it has exclusively proactive use, never reactive. (Heavy can die before it’s done being readied)

The only part of the entire schpeel I don’t hate is the potential to displace enemies over distance, as that is what it was originally designed to do. But 40m is an absolutely insane range, especially if it behaves as a projectile.

[sick cloud]

duh, that change wouldn't affect gameplay at all to any competent minigun player, but it would drop the skill floor significantly which is exactly what the gun needs, compared to the rest of the heavy lineup it's notably difficult to use effectively (with the exception of the mgl32)

[sudden pewter]

The gun doesn’t need to change so that the sheep can use it. Those willing to put the time into learning the weapon will be rewarded.

[sick cloud]

"sheep" that's not a healthy attitude lad, these kinds of games should cater to a casual audience

[sudden pewter]

I’m sorry you feel that way.

[slow linden]

Heavys weapons aren't heavy enough,minigun and M2browning should've been some of the first weapons added to heavy

[sick cloud]

it is reality though, people like you or me are a loud minority, casuals are what keep games alive

[tardy light]

i like how even the small weapons are heavy, dual wielding desert eagles is hilarious

[slow linden]

@sudden pewter what are we thinking for damage on the m2 anyway,30? 40?(40 is too much imo)

[sudden pewter]

Please don’t assume you and I are similar.

[sick cloud]

that's quite a condescending attitude lad

[sudden pewter]

I’d need some sort of visual aid to assess what you’re wanting the weapon to behave like

[sudden pewter]

You’re asking for my favorite weapon in the game to be made easier to use because you aren’t willing to spend the time to tame it, under the pretense it’s for the wider masses.

[sick cloud]

i'm a minigun main lad, i play it near-exclusively and i am competent with it

[sudden pewter]

Anyone can use the weapon, that doesn’t mean everyone needs to use it.

[sick cloud]

i know very well how to play it, but there's no real reason that it should be so much harder to use than say the shak-50 or m60, it offers fairly little benefit for the relative difficulty of the gun

i believe that weapons should be viable even at a casual level so they remain accessible to the most important audience that games have, which is casuals

[slow linden]

Maybe slightly slower than this https://youtube.com/shorts/Uz6LLvKNtvE?si=lzoO-snayIyxAkqa

[sudden pewter]

So, what’s differentiating it from the minigun? Instead of a CoF it’s high vertical recoil?

[sick cloud]

what kind of sights do you reckon it should have? anti-aircraft sights could be a nifty pick but i would also love a chainsaw grip like with the m134

[sudden pewter]

Does it still need a spool equivalent? Are there movement penalties? Paint me the picture

[slow linden]

Yeah

[sick cloud]

if they would allow that players can put a red dot on the damn thing i would lose my mind

[slow linden]

When I say harsh recoil I mean you would need to pull down hard as fuck while firing(I'm just gonna copy and paste what I said earlier)

[sudden pewter]

So M60 but with worse recoil?

[slow linden]

Wait hold on

[slow linden]

This too

[sick cloud]

basically m60 but more damage, better structural damage, movement penalties and higher recoil

honestly i don't think it would be a very good pick or have a good usage rate but i would use it because that's exactly the type of gun that i love

[slow linden]

Maybe the bullets have like a half meter aoe?

[sick cloud]

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

you do not want that smoke, trust me. i'm a big planetside 2 player and there are weapons like that in the game and they are a menace and should never be added to any game ever

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/563351597317488661/1274466083813982318/catexplodion.gif

[tardy light]

yooooo i played TR

[slow linden]

Eh,I willingly play conclave in warframe

[sick cloud]

but i would not mind like a small suppression effect, like a wee little screen shake

[tardy light]

are u talking about lasher hahaha

[sick cloud]

yes! exactly! do not add that shit to the finals

i'm a VS main btw. and i main flash. i am a horrible person, but i do play NC too occasionally

[slow linden]

Eh,screen shake or flinch would be worse than aoe

[tardy light]

omg flash main is fucking insane

[sick cloud]

and not even cloak flash! i play medic AOE heal radar renegade flash. i am that kind of insane

[tardy light]

oh thats better i had automatically assumed cloak

[sick cloud]

pretty sure aoe damage would have that same effect anyways

[sick cloud]

i'm disabled but not like that.

[tardy light]

i was a big icarus enjoyer, but i switched around a lot to all types of infantryside and vehicleside

[sick cloud]

yeah i always play icarus whenever i'm on LA, but honestly i rarely play LA, i basically only play medic on VS and engineer on NC, the NC faction-specific anti-materiel rifle is incredible

[slow linden]

Same effectiveness but one would feel worse to fight

[sick cloud]

i mean they're basically the same thing except in one you're facing a minor annoyance and in the other you are dying

[slow linden]

It wasn't serious but I'm thinking like 150 or 200 ammo

[sick cloud]

sorry, dying AND facing a minor annoyance

[slow linden]

Should have a longer reload time than minigun too

[sick cloud]

pretty sure that's a little much in terms of game balance, realistically like 120 would be good

[slow linden]

Flinch just means they have a second chance to actually find their target

[sudden pewter]

Longer reload than Minigun is a tall order considering the empty reload is 5.25s

[slow linden]

How else will the small angry ones be satisfied

[sick cloud]

related but the multibuck reload animation for the minigun is peak and i live in a delusion that it makes the reload faster (it vaguely feels faster despite being the same length)

[sudden pewter]

They will never be satisfied. Catch 22

[sick cloud]

also c4tter since you're also a minigun main, which skin do you run on it

[slow linden]

Bout the same reload as minigun then

[unkempt moss]

If I was to change something about mini I'd probablt make the slide/fire a little smoother. Unless they fixed it, theres times where spooling seems to cancel slides. That would probably make mini feel slightly better to new players.

[sick cloud]

it's a little jank yeah, i've noticed the same that it tends to cancel slides

[sudden pewter]

The minigun has insane strengths with weaknesses offering windows of opportunity to attack. Catching a minigun while it’s reloading or spooling up offers an advantage.

What’s the drawbacks of the big chungus gun? It’s balanced around its vertical recoil as I understand, but seeing as it’s just an insane vertical recoil and not a unique behavior to the weapon there will be ways to mitigate that.

[unkempt moss]

I think the spool up is necessary though. Part of the guns strategy is ingrained in that time to spool

[sick cloud]

mm i wouldn't say that it's strictly necessary, at a low rpm would be DPS is poor anyways (and to counteract it i would say that at a low rpm it should have high bloom/COF)

i just think it'd be a nice change to help the casual audience enjoy the gun more while doing very little to actually improve performance in reality

[sudden pewter]

Hand gestures should work while spinning. I greatly dislike I cannot gamer salute someone until roughly 5-8s after it’s reached a resting state.

[sick cloud]

any competent minigun player would continue to juggle slides and spooling anyways since that'd still be more effective

[slow linden]

Harsher movement penalties,it pushes you backwards slowly while firing and no strafing

[sick cloud]

you just killed the idea. that would make the gun absolutely unusable.

[sudden pewter]

Not sure I like the backwards push but the no-strafing could be interesting as it would essentially remove recoil smoothing as a mechanic entirely. So you’d be forced to manually control recoil, which is nowhere near as efficient as smoothing.

[slow linden]

This is fair

[slow linden]

I'm tossing out relevant ideas and seeing what sticks

[sick cloud]

wouldn't denying strafing mean that you'd get your head drilled in immediately by any competent opponent? i mean the flinch in this game isn't that bad, should be able to mostly keep firing on the users head since they can't strafe

[unkempt moss]

I definitely understand what you're saying. I dont know if it makes a big enough difference though. Part of me thinks the mini is supposed to be a little more difficult to play, as I'm not sure every weapon needs to be equally accessible to new players. Thats why I was more looking to make it smoother in movement.

[slow linden]

Strafing on minigun is barely anything and you get your head drilled anyway,the gun makes up for it,this will be no different

[unkempt moss]

I wonder if it even has the possibility of being more frustrating feeling for new players to have it fire immediately.

[slow linden]

Especially since it wouldn't have any kind of spin up

[sick cloud]

i'm of the philosophy that all weapons should be accessible to the casual audience since i understand that the casual audience is what keeps games alive

[sudden pewter]

If anything it would be more frustrating to fight because now it’s always capable of fighting back. Even if dived it can deal some damage whereas before it would rely on gadgets for that.

[sick cloud]

catering to them is more important than people tend to understand, they don't complain about changes, they leave the game

[slow linden]

I am a casual,I would use it anyway,recoil isn't even that hard(fuck visual recoil tho,bad design,horrible design)

[sudden pewter]

Visual Recoil as a balancing metric for weapons has never worked and is horrendous.

[slow linden]

And revolver still has it

[sudden pewter]

Revolver would be too OP without it tbh. The gun is a skill-cannon.

[sick cloud]

it's always capable of fighting back even now, unless an enemy is within a few metres of me i can plonk down a barricade and a healing emitter AND spool up before they have a line of sight on me again

[unkempt moss]

Thats valid for sure. Just different philosophy of games. I think inherently there's going to be weapons that will be harder to play for new players no matter what. A marksman weapon will likely always be more difficult than say the flamethrower for a brand new player.

[slow linden]

It already has innate spread anyway,it can stand to lose visual recoil but no other buffs its otherwise perfect

[sudden pewter]

The ADS?

[slow linden]

Yes

[sudden pewter]

Hip has CoF but the ADS is pinpoint accurate afaik

[sick cloud]

oh yeah totally, but those are two different categories of weapons so it's hardly comparable

in any case, i just think it'd be a neat change to lower the skill floor a wee bit to coax people into actually playing the gun, it wouldn't really change anything for me because i'm already competent with it and wouldn't benefit from the change in any meaningful way

[slow linden]

The visual recoil is just present enough to matter,I'm more accurate with the hipfire imo

[sudden pewter]

Are you letting it recenter? If I ever miss while ADS’d I’m certain it was me and not the gun 100% of the time.

[slow linden]

Also I swear the visual recoil is far more forgiving with plundersteel I hit more ads shots with its irons

[sick cloud]

is this p2w x)

[sudden pewter]

The AlfaActa skin from the circuit reward has very nice irons as well.

[sick cloud]

no but actually i have that exact same effect in another way with the multibuck empty reload on the minigun, i know it's the exact same length but it feels faster

[slow linden]

It can't be purchased with multi bucks so if I'm right probably

[sick cloud]

plundersteel? isn't that the one from the €20 pack thing or am i remembering wrong

wait no i misread your message. my mistake

[slow linden]

Yea the pirate one

[slow linden]

You did not

[sick cloud]

i did but i am not going to explain how i did because i'm moving on to a conspiracy theory

[slow linden]

K

[sick cloud]

so, here goes. embark is adding hidden quality of life and minor performance boosts to cosmetics to encourage users to purchase them. i have no proof or sources but that's why it's a conspiracy theory

[slow linden]

The astronaut fcar performs the exact same

And the eclipse shade AK feels better than the deep sea diver one

[sick cloud]

ANOTHER CASE OF THIS BTW

the short versions of the model 1887!!! the eclipse shade and the western one. they feel infinitely better than the standard longer variants

[slow linden]

The deep sea diver AK is paid,the eclipse shade AK you can feasibly earn

[slow linden]

You can feasibly earn those too but honestly the short models are 100% p2w

And honestly good because the model needs all the help it can get

[sick cloud]

i don't really subscribe to earning multibucks as a F2P player but i'm privileged in the sense that if i want something, "i think i'll use my credit card"

i mean the sensible way to use multibucks as f2p is to buy battle passes... though i'm sure the temptation of skins overcomes that

[stoic garden]

idk i never missed a bp because of temptation as f2p

[tardy light]

sorry you guys are crazy. how are these skins p2w lol

[sick cloud]

placebo basically

[stoic garden]

and I'll damn well make sure i dont miss them cuz i aint spending a cent on this game ever

[slow linden]

I missed 3 because the season was ass and I missed 7 because 7 was unplayable dogshit

[slow linden]

Plundersteel I dunno,the irons are so clean

[stoic garden]

oh well, i missed s4 cuz i mained light and pre nerf pike was in the game

[sick cloud]

unironically the short model skins and the reload anim i spoke of on the minigun make them feel so much better that it feels like a legitimate boost to your performance despite doing nothing on paper

[stoic garden]

but not for skin buying

i apparently also barely played s5 for some reason, thought i had fun that season

[sick cloud]

yeah irons and whatnot do make a difference on weapon skins, but i legitimately only play minigun at this point so i don't pay all that much attention

minigun is my most beloved darling, i will never give her up

[stoic garden]

just dont use irons ngl

[sick cloud]

i love the vibe of using irons but i don't love the fact that they're almost always just straight up worse than any scope or sight

pike with irons though.... 🤤

[stoic garden]

i fucking hate how lh1 red dot looks, so much I'd almost use the irons

i should try them honestly

[sick cloud]

sights and scopes are basically always ugly on any of the more exotic-looking skins

[stoic garden]

no lh1's frame just looks ugly to me in general

[sick cloud]

i don't like the lh1 anyways, i basically only play recurve bow on light

[tardy light]

based

[stoic garden]

red dot makes it look hideous

[sick cloud]

literally the only usable light weapon for me

grapple + recurve FUCKS

[slow linden]

Miginun

[tardy light]

@chilly granite

[stoic garden]

I'm a cloak lh1 fella

I'll probably be cheeks at most fights but you can trust me to headshot spray anyone who tries stealing

2 mediums were felled by the great tactic of waiting cloaked behind them

[sick cloud]

minigun feels so nice to use on controller, been debating buying a nice controller recently, i have a DS4 right now that i use on my PC since i hardly ever play on PS4 anyways but i'd like something nice with paddles and TMR sticks

oh and befitting my gigantic, truckasaurus hands

[sudden pewter]

Cloak rocks with LH1. I use it all the time

[sick cloud]

this is valid but i'm prejudiced against all cloak players because i'm traumatised by planetside 2, @tardy light probably understands

[tardy light]

sometimes id run stalker...

[sick cloud]

SAME BUT I MEAN SMG INFILS AND ALL THAT

[tardy light]

before the nerf, id run stalker power knife too occasionally. or amaterasu. shits hilarious

[stoic garden]

I'd be a light main again if i had decent fps and res to handle that stupid ass rifle

[sick cloud]

stalker was peak, made me feel like solid snake, but SMG infils were evil

[tardy light]

i feel like daimyo was the worst cause if ur good with it its just insane

[sick cloud]

smg and cqc bolter infils at that

they nerfed infils to oblivion in like november or something though

[tardy light]

i havent played in so long

[sick cloud]

i didn't really pay all that much attention since i'm eternally a flash main now and all i do is grief noobs with it

people like me are the reason the game peaks at like 1k player count lol

[tardy light]

when i was in a noob griefing mood id just play a2g mossie

[sick cloud]

that is considerably worse, but same-same, airhammer on reaver

VS A2G is so bad

[tardy light]

ye

[slow linden]

Controller minigun is so peak imo

[tardy light]

im surprised you didnt play tr if you love daka daka in the finals

[sick cloud]

i just love playing flash because noobs don't realise that scout radar exists and they don't know about sensor shield so i just have infinite ESP on them, it's always that they stray from the group, i can see that on the map in a 100 metre radius and then i drive up to them, one tap and move on to the next

[sick cloud]

don't like the aesthetic and the TR outfits in europe are horrific

[tardy light]

outfits everywhere sucked, i played solo exclusively for 1k hours

[sick cloud]

i'm pretty much exclusively solo as well nowadays

[tardy light]

i ran a solo bastion lmao. it died so quick

[sick cloud]

and i don't mean that the outfits were bad (they always are) but i mean that they're incredibly toxic and INCREDIBLY russian

surprise surprise, it's europe and TR is what it is.

[tardy light]

yea, most video game groups ive ever stumbled upon are toxic

[sick cloud]

which servers did you play on?

[tardy light]

uhhh i think it was emerald? i dont remember the name its literally been that long

[sick cloud]

ah yeah US server, it's different over there. EU servers are an incredible place to be

did you ever hear about that planetside 2 streamer who discovered a quantum cube of infinite energy IRL and promptly went insane?

[tardy light]

uh... was it pale tiger?

[sick cloud]

i don't think that was it, i think it was like a moroccan dude who legitimately believed that he had some quantum cube of infinite energy and that he was about to revolutionise the entire world

[slow linden]

Mods,kill him

[random depot]

does anyone actually fall for that shit?

[slow linden]

Humanity is stupid.

[umbral cliff]

You should drink sulfuric acid

[exotic jetty]

The game has crashed, and terminated with exitcode: 1.

SID: d80inpegiojmp07t5m4g
TID: 4609238232224984806

ExitCode: 1 fix this

[green aspen]

Sword needs the hardest nerf ever, all they do is dash and left click you in 4 hits.

[slow linden]

Nerf,no

Rework,yes

[green aspen]

How would a rework work, genuine question

[slow linden]

Give it an actual fun moveset,make it like sledge,replace sword dash with an overhead

[spring oasis]

make it so spamming left click is not the most effective option for the effort it requires

[sudden pewter]

<@&1012034066876473384> Kill with hammer.

[dense oasis]

Embark, give us this skin for the MGL (from POE2)

[slow linden]

Is that a fucking
puckle gun?

[dense oasis]

It might be! It's a grenade launcher lol

First time I ever heard of that, I thought you misspelled "pickle" and was even more confused

[slow linden]

Look it up

It's a real historic weapon

[sudden pewter]

I get the dagger hype. Second game ever on dagger and I went 17/6

Very fun

[dense oasis]

personally really like the TKs, even if I'm kinda dogwater with them. They're satisfying when you land a kill

[neon barn]

what if we had the m1 garand but as a skin for the Lh1?

[sudden pewter]

Would need to be a mythic for the clip reload but it's a decent suggestion we've seen plenty of times. Why not

[dense oasis]

I guess they could just do the reload however they want, 'cause video game logic actually works for The Finals

[slender bear]

Any thoughts on another Vanish Bomb for Light that gives a speed boost instead?
Anything more than 10% would definitely be too much for a gadget, but I think it would be neat.
Light has the same amount of movement gadgets as Heavy and that's kinda crazy when Medium has both Bounce Pad and zipline, but Light also doesn't need a second long range deployable gadget

[unkempt moss]

I don't think this will get the sign off from catter and solar unfortunately.

Better luck next time, contestant

[sudden pewter]

#💣┇weapons-gadgets message
DOA.

[unkempt moss]

How did you even remember this post? It was 6 months ago.

I need you and solar to make a check list for people to fill out before posting their ideas. To meet your guidelines.

[copper phoenix]

just saw OSPUZE skin for 93R while spectating but cannot find the skin anywhere.

[somber tiger]

What's heavy's movement gadget?

[slender bear]

Anti-Gravity Cube
It's not a very good one, but it's still funny that Heavy has just as many as Light 🤣

[somber tiger]

I do think light needs some survivability gadgets that aren't completely redundant with cloak though.

[sudden pewter]

I keep notes on people. Mainly idiots.

[sudden pewter]

Some form of "Please read before suggesting something stupid" would actually be fantastic.

[unkempt moss]

I forgot about that.

[sudden pewter]

An elephant never forgets!

[unkempt moss]

Then you can just post a picture and they will have to adjust their ideas. Ez

[sudden pewter]

I mean, 90% of the time they won't anyway. But worth a shot I guess.

[unkempt moss]

[ ] Does it maintain verisimilitude within the current established boundaries and philophies of THE FINALS™

[ ] Does the gadget/weapon fill some sort of gap between options already available?

[last steeple]

Must have been from a contract 😔

[sudden pewter]

[ ] Does this fit the design of the weight/archetype you're suggesting it for?
[ ] Does this coincide with the established gameloop/gameplay of The Finals?
[ ] Could this coexist with the existing weapon ecosystem?

[last steeple]

[] doesn't your idea sound obviously stupid and unfair towards everyone but you?

[sudden pewter]

Also god damn I need to play Light more. Been trying everything I'm not super familiar with such as the:

• Dagger
• Sword
• Mater
• SR84
  I've been having a blast.

PointBreak has been the best addition to the game since the M134 in S6.

[unkempt moss]

Probably throw some guidelines before the check list.

• heavys dont get movement or range
• no laser weapons
• no piercing weapons

[last steeple]

MATTER is omega fun, peak point break weapon, but also peak cashout weapon

[sudden pewter]

But X game has Y and it worked fine!
This isn't X and chances are the design wouldn't incorporate Y as well.

[last steeple]

• -light is NOT broken

[sudden pewter]

Titanfall2 had Titans, we should add pilotable mechs!
TF2 has a disguise kit, we should add that to the game!
Why doesn't Heavy get a sniper? Every weight should have every weapon-type!

[unkempt moss]

[ ] This weapon/gadget is not copy and pasted from another game without adjustment or consideration of genre/style

[sudden pewter]

King shit

[last steeple]

Forza horizon 4 has supercars, let's add that to the game 🗣️ 🔥

[sudden pewter]

Overwatch has ultimates, we should get those too!

[last steeple]

Specs are a bit like ultimates accctuallly

Temu version that doesn't need to be charged

[sudden pewter]

No, specs are abilities that serve as the basis to build how you play.

A dash Light isn't as effective at ambushing as a cloak light is. A Mesh shield Heavy will be less effective at demolition than a C&S Heavy. etc. etc.

Weights/Archetypes (originally) were supposed to specialize in certain fields, and originally specs catered to that design.

But as the game evolved (for better or worse) that changed, while specs are still super powerful abilities with varying applications based on scenario, they certainly aren't comparable to ults.

[last steeple]

Yeah ofc but that's also because we can create our own character, while it's not the case with hero shooters (and you could argue that dash lights with camo bomb are better at ambushing since they get positioning and camouflage)

But yeah it's pointless to seriously compare them (the finals is just better)

[sudden pewter]

Ultimates and such have a place in games designed around them. Unfortunately for the tourists, this is not a game designed around them.

It displeases me greatly when players with a surface level enjoyment of the game come in and ask for features of other games to be implemented. Especially when they're so wildly different from what The Finals is.

The Mordhau fella asking for a Stamina System and anime-inspired melee moves. It's a completely separate game, there is little to no overlap between the two beyond the surface level observation that we have melee weapons too.

[last steeple]

Embark doesn't listen thaaat much to new players asking for generic boring features, they just listen to players that are too bad to deal with some mechanics so they nerfed to the ground those mechanics lol

[last steeple]

Hell nah don't add stamina to a game where running is your life

[sudden pewter]

Same with the players asking for a Light GL. How odd it is that all of Lights powerful single-shot weapons require a certain level of commitment. The SR84 requires you to fully scope in, the Bow requires you charge a shot, the Dagger needs you to place yourself into a vulnerable position. A GL on Light (even a single shot one) would be beyond cancer to deal with given Lights dominant mobility, taking away the need to aim(even if not entirely) would be horrendous for balance.

That same lack of thinking when they ask for a Heavy Sniper, absolutely 0 thought whatsoever put into the suggestion beyond "well it would be fun". Fun doesn't mean balanced.

[last steeple]

Oh nah I started to speak like the angriest orange role of em all, nerfing to the ground isn't true at all, but like embark likes to nerf some specs, gadgets and weapons just cause new players don't know how to face em

[sudden pewter]

Fun shouldn't come at the cost of the games longstanding foundations of balance.

[last steeple]

Note that they also need a certain amount of skill
And also people never think about what counterplay there is, but there's in fact a lot

[sudden pewter]

This isn't a PvE game, nerfs are healthy in a PvP game to keep things in check. The argument duh we should just erm buff everything rather than ever nerf things is such a reddit tier of stupidity. Nerfs HAVE to happen. If we exclusively buff the TTK just gets lower and lower.

[unkempt moss]

I do think there are ways to add stuff that doesnt fit the current set up and open up the game more. But I try to do it within the boundaries in place.

[last steeple]

Well a balanced game will obviously bring more fun, and there's no point of playing a game if it's not fun, fun is essential but it needs balancing to exist, and people needs to understand that thinking about how to solve a problem is fun, and that the finals can be a complex game even in low level lobbies

[unkempt moss]

I also dont play anymore so I just theory craft about the game and how to add the weirder aspects.

[last steeple]

You should (if you have some time ofc)

[sudden pewter]

A game for everyone is a game for no-one. The Finals should not cater to every player that walks through our doors. Having set rules and designs is good. As time goes on, obviously horizons expand, it is the nature of game development. But there should always be limits.

[unkempt moss]

Nothing really drawing me to it. Which is probably why I try to break down those walls

[sudden pewter]

A melee rework is welcome, many of the available melee weapons have been floundering for a while. But what wouldn't be welcome is giving melee weapons life-steal, or a stamina system that allows you to empower the weapons for extra damage or nonsensical fantasy moves like casting fireballs. That isn't The Finals.

[fluid bane]

sys horizon reference

[sudden pewter]

Nozomer...Pitadall...

[unkempt moss]

Yeah im the type to see something like lifesteal and try to fit it in. Stamina would make the game slower and more boring imo

I probably couldn't make it work, but I would sit there and try.

[last steeple]

Eh understandable, my friend doesn't enjoy playing as much as before, each time we play together we get destroyed by sweats, and the fact that when we play, he often chooses to use meta loadouts instead of actually trying fun loadouts like before
Like, I'm currently running revolver, goo nade, mines, pad and demat and I really enjoy it, it's fun, fast, efficient, and not typical defib/beam shi

[slow linden]

Steak alfred

[last steeple]

Maybe you do feel like this and maybe the solution is to forget about try hard, and maybe you don't and I said allat for nothing

[last steeple]

Looks gloomy and yummy at the same time

[unkempt moss]

I hit ruby every season and then just played for fun with dumb ass loadouts. Did this religiously for every season except 9 and 2. I got my money's worth.

9 kinda convinced me of what Catter said. The game isnt meant to be for everyone.

I love it, but its going to continue down the path its currently on.

[last steeple]

Oh understandable xdd, I never played as much and still had times where I couldn't get into the game caus I played too much

[last steeple]

Wdym? Like which path

[slow linden]

Didn't get that great a sear,smoked the steaks on high for like 10 minutes though after I seared them,than cut em up and tossed them in the sauce,then added the pasta I cooked like 10 minutes earlier

[unkempt moss]

I dont know if you were around when I was GOUF patch posting, but I was calling it finals 2.0 and changing a bunch of stuff. Redistribution of gadgets and weapons. Sweeping balance changes and weapon adjustments under my own philosophy of design. It was basically just target practice for most of the posters on here, but it was fun.

[slow linden]

Some of the steak had great sear,some didn't,I need to get one of those heavy flat weights that you put on meat while it's pan searing

[unkempt moss]

But i just realized that my philosophy for the game isnt that of embark and the general public.

[last steeple]

Nicee, I also enjoy to cook, did some steak too but with pepper sauce, w

[unkempt moss]

If you want a general idea of how embark is going to go forward, Catter/Solar is the closest you'll get to it.

[last steeple]

I wasn't there nah, maybe I do get a tiny bit of what you were trying to do, not a lot tho since I didn't saw what changes you wanted to do

[unkempt moss]

They wont try to push the game outside of the boundaries of embarks design for the most part.

[unkempt moss]

It was like almost 30 pages of changes and design philosophy paragraphs.

[last steeple]

Yeah catter is right there's some boundaries that need to stay

[unkempt moss]

I didnt feel that way for a lot of things. I wanted to push the VR gameshow thing to is maximum while still sticking to some of the rules.

[last steeple]

Each class needs to have some kind of general direction, while having a lot of different options
Movement must be a core part of the game
Teamwork must be at the center of the game, therefore ttks need to stay pretty high

Chaos must stay, third party isn't that much of a bad thing, destruction is as important as movement

[sudden pewter]

I wouldn't mind more gameshow aspects taking center stage. I do however want all of embarks design docs to be publicly available so that we can hold them accountable when they make changes antithetical to them. Why the BFR left the design room at all proves Embarks workflow needs improvement.

[unkempt moss]

My BFR change was so godlike. Its actually a crime that one didnt make it through.

[sudden pewter]

The fact I never got to see the GOOKPatch is criminal. Lost to time.

[unkempt moss]

You would have resented me for it. For us to maintain a healthy relationship I couldn't.

[sudden pewter]

We all make mistakes. Mine was playing Dagger because now I crave it.

[unkempt moss]

Me in season 9 tbh.

[sudden pewter]

I go to bed every night thinking "I'll bet I can break someones legs by dashing away and then immediately dashing backwards into their back"

[unkempt moss]

Cloak and Dagger main

[sudden pewter]

Also I purchased a 36g Wireless mouse and it's insane

[unkempt moss]

Is that heavy?

[sudden pewter]

Very light!

[last steeple]

Xdd that feeling when you think of everything you could do in the finals but you're about to sleep in order to stay healthy and succeed in studies or at work 🥀

[slow linden]

But now bfr is here and needs to be fixed

[unkempt moss]

Still?

[sudden pewter]

After using it more, it's still a viable weapon, it just doesn't have a niche anymore. You can break ladders and ziplines with it, trees as well. But I don't see why I would choose it over the KS23 aside from preference.

[unkempt moss]

Oh it needs buffs now

[sudden pewter]

Not sure how to go about buffing it without turning it into a monster.

[unkempt moss]

It cant have range, right? What if the fire rate was slow enough to offset it?

Never mind. I'm going to start Gouf posting

I'm out of the game these days.

[slow linden]

I don't Want a pocket sniper,I want revolver on heavy with one less bullet and slightly lower fire rate

They already gave medium an m11 the least they can do is give heavy a slightly tweaked revolver

[unkempt moss]

I can't fight it. The people need me

[slow linden]

Complete rework really

No direct buffs without completely changing how it handles

Needs way more falloff too

[slow linden]

A word of advice,goo combos are still possible with flamethrower but they're no longer worth using as an opener

[unkempt moss]

I wont be playing until season 12 if at all. Depends on what comes from 11.

[weary timber]

Quick question out of curiosity why do people use the lewis gun over the m60.the lewis gun does less dmg and it feels worse in terms of handling and everything overall and the m60 barely has any recoil

[slow linden]

Even so I'm sure you'll remember if they don't buff goo back up a bit in that time

[weary timber]

Let me spoil you babygirl with my dedicated medium build specifically made to revive and heal im not an egirl that says uwu but ill def heal and revive u

[slow linden]

Higher dps,more range,and it's handling is unique,not bad

[weary timber]

Really it has better dps? Doesnt it do less dmg than the m60?

Also wdym more range u can alr snipe ppl from the other side of the world with the M60

[unkempt moss]

Probablt means fall off

[slow linden]

If you're looking at the bars in the menu they're wrong

[weary timber]

Bruh fr?

I used it like couple of times and it didnt feel good unlike the M60 idk maybe im just weird

[slow linden]

https://tenor.com/view/tyler-hynes-hynies-ding-ding-ding-we-have-a-winner-its-christmas-eve-gif-19820176

[slow linden]

You need to learn the recoil pattern,Lewis gun shreds

[unkempt moss]

Everyone has their preference between the two

[slow linden]

This too

[weary timber]

Hm ill try to use the lewis a bit more then

The only weapons i liked is shak and the m60 appart from the grenade launcher which is utility i wouldn't call it a main weapon

[unkempt moss]

They're pretty close. I prefer Lewis as well but they function so similarly it doesnt really matter

[weary timber]

Akimbos feel clunky minigun is really situational and the flamethrower not my type

Im used to the heavy class in every game to have heavy dmg yk

[unkempt moss]

Akimbo still feel bad after the buff?

[weary timber]

For me yea

I also use the sa had a convo some days ago about it that it does no dmg but i just suck at its burst recoil

[unkempt moss]

Did they nerf the damage? I thought they did insane damage

[weary timber]

Idk it feels too slow for me and its pain vs lights with dash

I would consider myself decent at fps but i have like 3 days worth of hrs so maybe its just a skill issue on my part

[unkempt moss]

They made akimbos wrong for what the weapons are so dont feel bad.

[slow linden]

Minigun is NOT situational

[unkempt moss]

Theyve always felt like shit for the most part.

[weary timber]

Idk man most guns on the heavy seems clunky to me

[weary timber]

I see every noob spam it especially in point break and stack kills cuz its stupid

[unkempt moss]

Youve kicked the hornets nest now

[slow linden]

Oh God, the devil arrives

[sudden pewter]

Lewis does more flat damage, more effective at breaking shields and better ranged potential. M60 is a brawlers weapon, better at multi-target engagements and staying in the fight longer.

[weary timber]

Okay thank u for letting me know about this also when u say shields do u mean dome shield+mesh or barricades aswell

[sudden pewter]

Dome and Mesh

[weary timber]

I will keep that in mind thank u for letting me know about that i wasnt aware

Although i rarely see people using domeshield and mesh modt use wench or the charge

[slender bear]

Hear me out, in next season's battle pass (if it's also a medieval season) they should do a Healing Beam skin that's some kind of staff or wand

[limpid flicker]

I need thermal vision back

[vocal flume]

they will never be able to work it out

should just rework it to gadgets not working on you

[gusty gale]

the crosshair is big

[gusty gale]

LOL

[alpine sphinx]

Ranked needs a massive rework i am constantly seeding 1-3 in solo queue. I feel like there are way too many factors, especially in solo queue for seedings to have any place

[gusty gale]

agree

[zenith geode]

they should just get rid of the first round so it only needs to queue 4 teams each time. then the top two would obviously go through to The FINALS to play a head to head to decide the winner, but i also think 3rd and 4th in the cashout round should go into their own head to head as a "losers bracket"

[tardy light]

why are all the best soundtracks used for ltms :/

[glossy sun]

Hmm.... Will they add a New weapon and gadget for heavy...?
We missing 1 to even out the selections.
Same as Light with the spec.

[alpine apex]

I still like the idea of 8 teams (even though it makes matchmaking tougher) but yes, having a 3rd/4th place head to head to determine WT or RS points gained

[alpine apex]

My guess is that’s part of season 12 along with a slew of other things

[glossy sun]

Hope so.

[zenith geode]

Maybe keep the 8 teams up to and including plat since that's where most of the player base is at. Then once you reach diamond, it only queues 4 teams for round 2 then final round so they get shorter queue times and more competitive matches

[alpine apex]

https://tenor.com/view/kate-berlant-hollywood-handbook-podcast-i-love-it-it's-my-favorite-gif-833046651095958605

Son of a bitch lol

Thought I was still in main chat

I love it 😂😂😂

[zenith geode]

Maybe then these fuckin rubies will get out of my gold lobbies

[alpine apex]

I’m bronze and proud of it, I get to just meme around and have fun without having to worry about matchmaking issues ruining my climb lol

Gold is for good/great
Silver is for scrubs
Bronze is for vibes

[zenith geode]

I'm gold 4 so occasionally dip down into silver, I swear silver lobbies are so much sweatier than gold

[alpine apex]

All the boosters hanging in silver sending their buddies to plat

[sudden pewter]

It’s being reworked. What eventually fills its spot will not be the thermal vision you’re familiar with.

[alpine apex]

I just want to actually counter cloak crutches without having to squint and use my old ass eyes

[copper pollen]

glitch mines

[stoic garden]

glitch trap:
motion sensor:
sonar grenade:
listening:

[copper pollen]

or glitch nades if youre soloq since rarely anyone uses glitch mines

[muted condor]

Personally I just use my next level game sense to know their location at all times

[indigo nexus]

sonar nade

specs having explicit counters is not great in my opinion.

[muted condor]

90% of light players are so predictable you can just guess where they are and not worrying about all that

[copper pollen]

bros, what if we reduced cloak duration and CD both, and added passive to cloak that buffs bullet dmg by a small amount for 0.5s AFTER youre uncloaked because of your actions (so taking dmg or getting glitched doesnt count)
also because effect applies AFTER the cloak ends, it wouldnt allow a fully charged bow / throwing knives / sword hit to get buffed
however i still dk how we would deal with snipers abusing this

[zenith geode]

Cloak is a lot less of an issue than dash

[copper pollen]

this only applies to invis caused by cloak, vanishing bomb dont get the same effect

[alpine apex]

You aren’t wrong, but you have to throw it in the correct direction, keep them in the radius, blah blah blah

I like to just quick snap turn thermal on and leave it on til they’re dead

[alpine apex]

Thermal is nice for ranged fights too where the lighting isn’t the greatest. Yes it’s a hard cloak counter but it does have other uses.

[copper pollen]

dash is very predictable, meanwhile cloak is just in a weird spot rn where if the duration is too long, it promotes rat gameplay, if the CD is too short it becomes more problematic because light can take advantageous fights more often and gives way too little time for victim team to react, but rn its underwhelming, very little pick rate, while vanish bomb is becoming a must pick

basically buffing it any of the existing stats rn makes it swing wildly between op and up

[zenith geode]

Dash may be predictable z but tracking the little shits, especially on controller is a nightmare. Thankfully controller has some devious melee assist. I nearly always run glitch traps and explosive mines so I can deal with invis lights fine

[zenith geode]

I wonder if they're going to make thermal a spec then? But buff it in some way

[copper pollen]

unlikely, it would have to be really really busted to have any hopes of competing with dash and cloak (maybe smart pistol levels busted idk)

[indigo nexus]

Well that's a rubbish concept for a gadget. Loadout-based counters should be minimised and this is nothing but one.

(well, I'm exaggerating a little, but that was the main use of it)

[zenith geode]

True

[zenith geode]

My medium loadout is basically just counters to the things that counter me (riot shield)

[indigo nexus]

Thinking about what a vision-related gadget could be... I wonder, what about something like thermal vision but rather than seeing invis players and stuff, it allowed you to see the composition and cooldowns of enemy loadouts, their healthbars and health regen timers under all circumstances... that could be interesting... maybe.

sort of like an intel overlay

[zenith geode]

Would probably be way too much visual clutter

[indigo nexus]

yeah, it would look stupid, which is the biggest issue

[zenith geode]

If light was to get another spec, which is likely at some point so all builds have 4, it'd most likely be another movement option.

Unless they did make it some sort of thermal vision but it gives you and your nearby teammates a high quality thermal view

[spring oasis]

What if Light got a Grapple-dash-cloaking device-defib spec

That would be cool I think

[fluid bane]

what if dash got a shorter cooldown than grapple 🙏

[muted condor]

What if we removed defib

[spring oasis]

What if there was something like Grapple except instead of pulling you along as a movement tool, it pulled the target towards you and if it is a player it momentarily stuns them?

I don't think there would be any problems with this

[zenith geode]

Fair and balanced. And definitely wouldn't result in weapons being unfairly needed because of it

[spring oasis]

Exactly!

[muted condor]

While we’re at making that what if we made a spec that makes it so you can see enemies through walls for a short time. Some kind of recon spec

[fluid bane]

what if there was something similar that acted like a shockwave that could push enemies towards you or launch you towards enemies

[zenith geode]

Just give the tracking dart to medium too

[spring oasis]

That would be really cool! I think I could see that being utilized in combination with jump pad to speed up general map traversal

We are having such good ideas here today! Embark should look here and implement some of our ideas exaclt as described

[alpine sphinx]

fcar better at long range than the fucking akimbo, what kinda joke is this game lmao

[fluid bane]

repeater outranges sniper 😭

[alpine sphinx]

thats not true, at 50m sniper deals more damage per second than repeater

[copper pollen]

the sanest one would be a rewind thing like that one ability in apex, because the other two movement options cover a lot of movement options

[alpine sphinx]

(both deal less dps than fcar at that range btw)

[fluid bane]

except repeater is histscan and sniper is a projectile

[alpine sphinx]

seperate issue, fcar outperforming any of those weapons in terms of dps (while having a predictable recoil pattern on ADS) is absolutely insane, like what the fuck is embark even thinking

[copper pollen]

wall running would just be clunkier more useless grapple, stim doesnt really work in this game bc people are already pissed at tracking triple dash being a pain

[fluid bane]

nah

[zenith geode]

A flat movement boost stim would be fine. The main issue plebs such as myself have with tracking dash is fast directional changes

[alpine sphinx]

actually every fucking full auto weapon outperforms them in terms of damage, aim is a factor but the fact that these weapons have the potential to deal this much damage is absolutely stupid. ZTheir modifier at those ranges should be at like .2 or something to actually encourage fighting on their range and not just roof snipe all game

[copper pollen]

maybe a yoru ult type ability for spec can work, gives you intel, allows you to go through walls, so that means you also see through walls, but could become a very toxic get out of jail free card

[zenith geode]

Idk what that is. But a speed boost + thermal vision could be kinda nutty

[copper pollen]

basically what yoru ult is it turns him completely invincible and invisible upto a certain range. basically theres a circle around yoru in which yoru and the player can see eachother. Yoru can exit his ult anytime anywhere for a finite duration, so basically you can walk completely around and spawn behind an enemy. in valorant, yoru cant phase through walls, this is where we differ, we allow our finals yoru to walk through walls, barricades, goo, anything and everything, and unaffected by low gravity / shockwave / jump pads
basically, this allows the light to either run out, get intel, but reveal himself in the process, or can reposition in really ridiculous ways
note that sounds are disabled for yoru in his phased state, which we'll keep

[zenith geode]

Due to most gamers lacking a peripheral vision, this would probably be busted as fuck. Having i-frames while using it seems crazy for kiting

[copper pollen]

following a light in this state is really risky move, if he has no teammates then sure, but if you dont know state of his team, it could be dangerous, he could be kiting you to an ambush, so really the kiting issue would be more of a awareness issue, you have to make a decision, do you follow the light in hopes of finding and squashing him and his team or do you play mind games and reposition once theyre gone
remember, if you can see the light, only then the light can see you , vision circles for both are identical, and also when yoru is within your range he emits a really loud directional sound, so even if you are unable to 180 flick to lock on to them, you'd still know light was here and he passed behind you

does this sound like it make cloak completely irrelevant? yes. am I a game dev? no. this is why.

[zenith geode]

It's a cool concept, but I don't think it suits the finals. And it'd be extremely confusing for newer and less competent players

[copper pollen]

yea tbh games start introducing abilities that come with a 4 page documentation and eventually end up too complex to bother actualy using those abilites to max potential, also embark is about emergent systems, this doesnt create a very strong emergent system

also I forgot to mention yoru cant use weapons or other gadgets in this state

[limpid flicker]

Ik 😭

[tardy light]

ye i really wish embark lessened the terrible poke meta we have. like, long range fighting is ok, but being sprayed at 50m+ on the way to Seoul hospital feels bad man

[spring oasis]

I think the range is the problem, not the fact it is poke

[tardy light]

i think we are using the same words with different meanings in our minds

[indigo nexus]

Poke to me refers to a strategy used anywhere outside of point blank range with certain weapons

[tardy light]

i had that belief too (i.e. repeater, ks, etc) but someone else told me poke refers to long range fighting, so idk man, community slang is hard

i would imagine poke is like, peeking out for a high damage shot, then returning to cover.

but in my earlier message, i used poke to mean any rooftop camping watching spawns and such

[spring oasis]

Yeah, that is what poke is in my mind. Long range gameplay is unfun to engage with regardless of the style of weapon delivering it

[spring oasis]

I would call that rooftop camping and long range gameplay

[alpine sphinx]

seoul hospital needs to be removed and the entire area reworked. it excells at bringing out the worst aspects of the game, and actively encourages them

[tardy light]

the worst part is, plenty of long range weapons are off-meta (SR, pike, BFR), while meta options like ARN, FCAR, and Lewis still perform well at range. embark could nerf the range on these and allow the off-meta range stuff to shine where it belongs

[alpine sphinx]

this, but also their entire design philosophy revolves around rooftop mid-long range engagements stuff like winch makes it even worse by allowing extreme cashout manipulation, and defi ensures that the fights go on forever

[tardy light]

does anyone know if dpi switch is against eula

it says third party software...

[alpine sphinx]

why would it be, many mouses have innate dpi switch by pressing a button

[tardy light]

cuz they dont allow autoclickers so idk how strict the rule goes

ideally id like to see dev confirmation before i start fucking around with instant mesh turn around flicks

[alpine sphinx]

as long as its directly controlled through your mouses internal software i dont think you have anything to worry about

i would have been banned because i sometimes accidentally press it and change my dpi and then have to cycle back to the profile i want

[tardy light]

i know it doesnt auto ban, what i am worried about is report and manual review

[tardy light]

its not internal, its an app on my pc tho. and the same app can make probably bannable macros

[fluid bane]

if its ahk the game doesnt even run when it detects it open

[tardy light]

its not idk what that is
im talking about stuff like ghub / razer synapse

[alpine sphinx]

then i would be careful

[fluid bane]

honestly it should be fine because you could most likely achieve similar results using mouse accel

maybe contact support though

[tardy light]

ye ill just make an eggmail xD

[unkempt moss]

Poke to me refers to fighting done at a range where you can't/don't capitalize on the damage by diving on it.

[alpine apex]

That's how I view it too. If you can jump pad dive on someone that's not poking. Poking means being a menace from a range and pinning people down with shots while your teammates move in to mop up.

In other words your health advantage is lost if you attempt to dive on them because they are far enough away to regenerate most of their health, and now you have to CQC with a ranged weapon whereas they likely have a more favorable point blank gun.

[unkempt moss]

Right. Ideally poke is looking to end skirmishes before they even start by shutting down pushes.

Or eating as much resource/ health to make the push impotent.

[eager wasp]

isn't poke both ranged fighting helping to prevent pushes/doing damage, running, and then coming back later on to do more damage

[languid tusk]

anyone got any tips for playing minigun? i recently picked it up but I'm struggling with the rev up mechanic. is there a better way to keep it reved up?

[eager wasp]

hold and let go of it to slide

faster than redoing it entirely

[unkempt moss]

No idea. I dont play this game.

[languid tusk]

Thank you I’ll try that.

Also is anyone have any recommendations for what gadgets i should use for a mini-gun build.

[unkempt moss]

I heard that lockbolt is mandatory from Appoh.

[unkempt moss]

For minigun

[languid tusk]

Alright I guess I’ll switch out lock-bolt for rocket launcher. I’ve also been using healing ball or whatever it’s called.

[spring oasis]

Chuck

[languid tusk]

oh hes named chuck that awsome!

[candid vessel]

Grade A bullshit. Mandatory is not at all true. It definitely works well with minigun but i wouldn’t say its worth it over running winch/c4/rpg/pyro mines for cashout manipulation and rigging. Ive won games before without using a single gadget or specialisation because its not worth trying to work them into the combat because of the spin up. Ball probably works well with minigun too but its not really necessary.

[unkempt moss]

Oh

[compact tundra]

So like you're kinda right, it's not mandatory, but like you really should run lockbolt with mini. Not one weapon in this game will win a ttk race with minigun at miniguns preferred range, nothing will even come close really, lockbolt forces them to ttk race you. If you lockbolt someone and start shooting them there's really nothing they can do, it's a free fight winner

[languid tusk]

mmmmm all good points that i will take into consideration.

[candid vessel]

If they’re close enough to lockbolt you should be killing them easily anyway

The time it takes to use LB can be used to just evaporate them instead because the range is actually super good

[compact tundra]

It's about jumping people, minigun struggles to force fights on people cause heavy is slow and minigun makes you slower. Lockbolt removes their escape and forces them to fight out when realistically their only viable strat is to run

[languid tusk]

i feel like it could also be used at medium range if the enemy is on a roof or something to prevent them from geting farther away.

[candid vessel]

If they have the high ground you cant hit a LB, if you have the high ground LB isn’t really needed

[compact tundra]

That's actually when it's best cause it stops them from taking cover or running away, your basically forcing them into a fight they don't want when otherwise they just would have ran

[candid vessel]

Minigun struggles to force fights if you dont have the shmovement down. If you do then you can easily run and gun

[compact tundra]

Trust bro I'm a movement player and any good light or medium could realistically get away from me. If they are worse at movement than you then that works but if you're on equally footing then they will get away

[candid vessel]

The radius is slightly too big to stop them taking cover in most places

[candid vessel]

In a situation where they could escape before you kill them LB wont help you much. The radius is big enough that you can easily be completely unaffected when moving around in a building, which is 9/10 places where they might be able to get away from you

[compact tundra]

That's all based on placement and location, yea some spots it won't stop them from taking cover but in a lot it will be super helpful. Plus if you have heavy schmovment down then that's actually not terrible cause you can dive if they take cover as long as you put them in a bad spot

[lapis field]

https://youtube.com/shorts/5VMcOSfZHTY?si=4A_qehGQZZph1GHZ p90 legendary final eclipse skin

[ember junco]

Did they nerf the spear why does it feel like shit now

[sudden pewter]

@compact tundra I fucking get it man.

[languid tusk]

its always been that way.

[compact tundra]

Hell yea. Swords hella fun if you enjoy movement, tho make sure to try to hit combos and maybe learn some movement tech, that's where the long term enjoyment comes from since dash and swing can get boring after a while

Oh hell yea you played support sword too. That's imo the best way to play sword

[languid tusk]

yall i just picked up the cerb bc i got a skin for it and its not terrible. there are better weppons but its pretty solid. anyone got any loadouts for the cerb i could try?

[candid vessel]

Demat is by far the best spec to use w it

[languid tusk]

ok would fire grenade go well for like a fire build.

[candid vessel]

I like pyro grenade but thats just because i use it all the time

In theory gas could be good because you can use it in places that would normally screw over both you and your enemy, but because of cerb you can get rid of it instantly

But gas as a whole is pretty ass because fire is everywhere in so many forms

Speaking of ass, i forget how bad the 1887 is sometimes

It actually sucks 😭

[abstract kestrel]

Pyro grenade is kinda buns. There's pretty much always a better in slot. its not bad for area denial thats about it

[hot roost]

what do yall think is the best weapon to run for each class right now? trying to get back in the game and learn whats good

[lone charm]

goo sledge

hope this helps :)

[candid vessel]

Shak, m11, fcar/akm

Week old bread less stale than the meta rn

[lone charm]

is the m11 better than the xp?

[candid vessel]

110%

[lone charm]

oh damn

i thought it was just like xp is just m11 with more range & less fire rate

[candid vessel]

Yh it is but the m11 has too much range for its dps

And subsequently treads on the toes of the xp54

[languid tusk]

yeah but the m11 is a chud weapon.

[lone charm]

every light weapon is 😈

[languid tusk]

yeah but the xp requres skill

[candid vessel]

Not really. ARN yes. Xp nah

[lone charm]

yes i understand thats what the 😈 was for

[languid tusk]

but you are right i hate most of the light smgs bc its just spray and dash around.

[candid vessel]

Im so annoyed they buffed it when it was already the best weapon in the game

“The m11 is over performing at mid range so we’re making it better at mid range”

[languid tusk]

IT WAS A BUFF I THOUGHT IT WAS A NERF!?!?!?!?

[candid vessel]

No its better between 10 and 18.7 metres now than it was before (after 18.7 its worse but like thats massively outweighed)

[languid tusk]

bru can they just balance light. like damm, medium and heavy are balanced why is it so hard.

[candid vessel]

Idk why tf they increased the max falloff instead of leaving it or cutting it down

[languid tusk]

the whole M11 thing is confusing to me because they labled it as a nerf but basicaly nothing has changed?

[edgy estuary]

Revolver is great

[languid tusk]

si senior, im just bad and cant hit my shots.

[edgy estuary]

Practice makes perfect dude

[languid tusk]

true but have you seen how bad the hitscan is on the revolver. at a range more than 25m if you dont center mass someone the bullets curve around them.

[candid vessel]

Pretty much yeah

[somber tiger]

I wish they would try buffing things into the meta for once instead of nerfing the weapons that are slightly better than the competition.

[languid tusk]

literaly the poor spear

[edgy estuary]

Practice flick aiming, that helped me, and pace your shots a bit so the kick settles

[languid tusk]

whats flick aming i wana learn?

[candid vessel]

I agree with this but sometimes some things are just way too strong. M11 shak fcar and akm fit that bill rn imo

[candid vessel]

Like some small nerfs to these just to take the edge off and buffs to almost everything else would be the best thing to do i think

[languid tusk]

This guy knows ball!

[candid vessel]

Thank you 🙏

[edgy estuary]

Unlike tracking where you follow the target, flicking you sort of just “flick” your aim onto them usually it is more so in their vague direction at first and a bit of adjustment, but eventually you start getting a feel for how much movement you need to input.

[somber tiger]

I hope if they nerf fcar they nerf the mag size back down

[edgy estuary]

Probably not explaining it the best, but i’m half asleep

[languid tusk]

Oh it’s like Fortnite shotguns when your up close to someone (stupid dumb analogy)

[candid vessel]

21 shots would do nicely

[edgy estuary]

I don’t play fortnite sorry so that makes no sense to me, but if you YT flick aiming it’ll come up, there are probably Finals videos on it too.

[candid vessel]

And alongside that decrease akm fire rate a bit. So the fcar is more risk reward and the akm is still “ol’ reliable”

[somber tiger]

akm should get its two bullets back though

[candid vessel]

Im fine w that if it comes with like a 20 rpm decrease

[languid tusk]

sory im a newgen chud. ill look that up, thanks for the tip.

[somber tiger]

I wish heavy had more than two poke weapons

[candid vessel]

I wish heavy had like a sniper or AT gun. Or like a heavy 2 burst rifle

[somber tiger]

I don't think they want heavy to have much range

[candid vessel]

Yeah. I get why but still i wish we had more fun stuff

[edgy estuary]

Yeah we don’t need 350hp snipers sitting behind meshes with like 500hp of healing behind them.

At least you can 1 or 2 shot the rats, or make them flee.

[languid tusk]

they should add a barett style weapon for heavy that does a lot of damage but is singe shot and takes a long time to reload.

[candid vessel]

Like a big fat sniper as a spec that shot an explosive bullet that could break stuff would be so awesome but so impossible to balance

[somber tiger]

I really wish they'd give heavy a precision projectile weapon like the throwing knives or bow, even if it has a short effecive range.

[languid tusk]

yeah ur right. but we basicaly have that its that one shotgun with the slugs

[edgy estuary]

15m throwing axe

[candid vessel]

Ks23 fucks so hard

[candid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-slamming-card-on-table-gif-21126320

[languid tusk]

i tried to learn it but it was easier to learn the sniper for light

[candid vessel]

Fair enough, sniper is also super fun

[languid tusk]

wait yall pretty please check drip check i want an opinion on my outfits.

[candid vessel]

Alr

[languid tusk]

ty gang!

[somber tiger]

I just wish they were more creative with the weapons. The last interesting weapon we got was the minigun in season 6.

[languid tusk]

i mean the crosbow wasnt terrible but then they nerfed medium

[hardy dust]

Crossbow could've been designed interestingly but it ended up being a very boring weapon

Semi auto hitscan with basically 0 recoil

At least its not full auto ig

[candid vessel]

Its just an lh1 with better hipfire less range and a 1.5 crit multiplier tho

[hardy dust]

The most interesting part abt it is the good hipfire

[somber tiger]

Crossbow just isn't that unique, especially considering that it's supposed to be a crossbow.

If we can't get any more projectile weapons, can we at least give throwing knives to medium or something so I don't have to play light all the time?

[somber tiger]

Give us the snowball from the snowball fight event but instead of a snowball it's just a brick.

[tardy light]

honestly that would be nice, in terms of feel, slow and chunky

idk how it would be aesthetically, slingshot feels a bit too low tech. since medium is all about cool digital stuff, maybe some sort of grav accelerator gizmo that shoots discs or orbs? idk

[candid vessel]

Id love that

[tardy light]

could have some sweet sfx with it too, embark is good at that stuff, just see the new Cl40 anims

[candid vessel]

The day they add a stripper clip reload for lh1 is the day the finals is great again /lh

[somber tiger]

They'd probably just give it to light though since only lights are allowed to oneshot lights

[tardy light]

they must make an exception for the skillful off meta projectile meme weapon bro

[somber tiger]

I wish they would

[lapis meadow]

Sword light requires literally 0 effort to play

0 brains to use, just charge in, and kill as fast as you can

[tardy light]

sword light has a super high skill ceiling

it is pretty easy and good if your opponents dont know what to do, but otherwise it is super hard

[lapis meadow]

I got a literal 20 kill streak on my first go around with it last match bruh

[tardy light]

let me guess point break? farming noobs?

[lapis meadow]

I didn't even know the tech 😭 it's so free it's crazy.
nah cashout tournament.

[tardy light]

well sometimes unranked is like that, i won a tourney as triple KS-23 earlier, i promise you take it to ranked, if its so free u should climb to diamond with it easy

against good opponents, its totally viable but not brainless, needs great movement

[unkempt moss]

Isnt that true for all melee though?

[lapis meadow]

I just did it again bruh,

[tardy light]

yes probably, because bad players can still be 100% accurate with melee but otherwise miss most of their shots with a gun, and positioning is far less important since everyone is bad (but its crucial in better lobbies)

i think melee is the noob stomping tool if youre a noob and want to climb

[unkempt moss]

I'm of the opinion that sword is the easiest of all the melee weapons to use.

[tardy light]

dont you still think its harder than any gun tho

i can agree its easier than dagger, idk about the others, but i havent played enough of all the melee to tell which is hardest/easiest, my most played is riot

[unkempt moss]

Than any gun? Probably not. But harder than most guns yes.

[tardy light]

well, excluding tk/bow, excluding sniper

[unkempt moss]

As you climb melee gets much harder but thats true of most things. Melee hits a wall much earlier than the guns I think because of the position requirements.

[hardy dust]

Imo sword has the 2nd lowest skill floor out of all the melees, with only sledge being easier

But it has one of the highest skill ceilings out of all the melees

Ironically sledge also has a very high skill ceiling

[lapis meadow]

I just think it's stupid that a guy can basically solo wipe 2 teams with a sword

[hardy dust]

Any weapon can do that

That just depends on the enemy being bad enough

[lapis meadow]

they were all jumping us

[hardy dust]

And still managed to die to sword

Its the 2nd worst light weapon and one of the worst in the game

It just excels at noob stomping

[unkempt moss]

What rsnk are you playing in?

[lapis meadow]

GOLD 4

[tardy light]

you said unranked

but theres matchmaking in unranked regardless

[unkempt moss]

I think sword just feels the most unfair of all the melee weapons for the longest period of time.

[tardy light]

new players also seem to find light unfair in general

[unkempt moss]

I will say, even if they are weak, there's never a point where it feels entertaining or even remotely enjoyable to play against a light.

[tardy light]

idk, i just see some experienced sword players in diamond+ pull off some crazy fucking moves that are so impressive, and it makes me glad theyre not just stomping me with dash arn instead, so i cant fathom thinking its op or brainless

but if youre in a different setting where you can just walk into a cashout room, run circles around the enemies spamming m1, yeah it probably feels brainless and stupid

its the issue of balancing being impossible when different skill levels are basically playing different games

[unkempt moss]

Everything is brainless down low, thats why its so fun. I'd much rather play a fun loadout in silver than sweat up in ruby.

[tardy light]

yea i prefer chill fights with silly loadouts than sweating, but i do enjoy my meta sweating too every now and then

[unkempt moss]

I'd say thats my biggest problem with the game is its not fun at the top. Which in a my other genre is not the case. So my patience is much lower.

Which is why I'm not a good judge of what is and is not good for the game

[tardy light]

idk if you ever played chivalry or mordhau, but i literally always had fun fighting people, even if they knew crazy tech, it was so fun to see it in action, but the immediate appeal of the finals is the diverse arsenal, then as you climb higher you realize more of it is not viable, hoverpad is probably cool in quick play, no way am i bringing that to ranked ever, then to make things worse embark patches out silly things like moving hoverpad, its like they encourage the stale meta 🙁

[unkempt moss]

Right. But this is their vision. They want a super cereal esports shooter.

And is also the reason I no longer play.

[tardy light]

meanwhile the ranked gamemode has literal team boosting every match

[unkempt moss]

I just keep hoping they see the error of their ways so I can come back.

[timid phoenix]

As a new player its a little rough around the edges

[unkempt moss]

They've spent a lot of time grinding down the rough spots already.

But a lot feel the game is worse for it.

[timid phoenix]

Really I only got 40 hours started playing late last season?

Did it used to be better?

[unkempt moss]

They've removed a lot of the oddball interactions.

You used to be able to do some insane things

[timid phoenix]

Like what I'm intrested

[unkempt moss]

You used to be able to make a airship out of goo and barricades. You could kick flip the cashout by dropping jump pads on it.

[pastel wyvern]

shockwave jumpad my beloved

[timid phoenix]

Holy

[unkempt moss]

Grapple on grenades and throwables

[timid phoenix]

What did that do?

[tardy light]

the kick flip thing was actually kinda gamebreaking tbh

[unkempt moss]

Grapple hook on to a grenade youre throwing 35m and ride the momentum.

[timid phoenix]

That's wild