💣┇weapons-gadgets

[somber tiger]

I'd probably play if it wasn't for the matchmaking system.

[noble saddle]

Its one of those things where if it shows to be popular by the majority of players it will stay but if most don't like it, it will be reverted

[muted condor]

I used to go in and play nice until I was alone with one other person. It was way more fun fallowing people and waiting for a good moment to jump them

Especially on the indoor map

[noble saddle]

I shoot on sight in arc raiders lol

My biggest problem with arc is idk what I'm working towards lmao

[somber tiger]

It's best as PvPvE, but you either shoot first and get PvP lobbies, or shoot second and get PvE lobbies.

[noble saddle]

Progression in arc raiders feels pretty bad and the core gameplay loop is fun but it's nothing I really enjoy sitting and grinding

My relationship with arc is ill play it for like a two hour bender once a month

I guess that's fine, but I'd play it more if it felt like I was working towards something

[muted condor]

It actually backfired on the PvE players and they are starting to get mad because they will bring lots of gear to kill the bosses then 15 free kits come through and take all the loot and the people that killed it can’t do anything or they’ll end up in PvP lobbies

[slow linden]

It's simple,onetapping people with the void

[noble saddle]

Like the finals I'm constantly working on making new contestants and refining my game ability on my main

[noble saddle]

LOL

Monkeys paw moment

[somber tiger]

I respect people's right to do this, but I'm still going to call them rats for doing this.

[noble saddle]

I feel like arc raiders could be even better if you could create several different raiders

Each with their own inventories and whatnot

Without needing to make a new account

[muted condor]

They spent so long calling pvp players rats they got the game turned into a perfect haven for actual rats

[muted condor]

It’s a bit dirty but I really like playing the villain sometimes

[noble saddle]

The energy that PvE arc raiders players have is the same energy as sorcerer and summonor builds in Elden ring bitching about red spirits

[indigo nexus]

I quite like it, it doesn't feel too forgiving but you definitely make good progress when you want to

[noble saddle]

Like you're playing the least enjoyable version of the game and are mad that others think that it's lame

All arc raiders probably needed to do was to have an offline mode lol and make it so inventory couldn't be brought over between modes

[compact tundra]

Does arc have melee weapons?

I've never played so idk how the loadouts work but I'm curious if there are melee weapons

[muted condor]

It has a hammer

[noble saddle]

It's like fortnite

[muted condor]

It’s your basic tool you use for opening locks and taking zip lines

[compact tundra]

So a hot bar you can fill with whatever and a back pack?

[muted condor]

Not exactly

[noble saddle]

Lol the fortnite comparison was tongue in cheek but there's some similarities to Battle Royale games in how it plays

But you have two weapon slots and quick use wheel

[muted condor]

You can hold two weapons and an augment that is basically your backpack. Each augment had a different storage space and number of items it lets you have on your hot bar

Some might have 18 back pack slots and 5 hot bar slots

[compact tundra]

So I'm hearing no melee weapons

[indigo nexus]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1433406810630520832/1497299788524159096/pick.mp4?ex=69fcd698&is=69fb8518&hm=ba472186732668d6512e0ba2a551e1cc025c86c5d98ff005485fdc332a1666c6&

[compact tundra]

Ok ig that counts even tho it looks lackluster

[muted condor]

Not really

[indigo nexus]

It's mainly a thing you use when you're out of ammo as it's faster than reloading and will reliably deal that last bit of damage

but most raiders don't really use it at all

in that clip we were running empty loadouts where we only use the raider tool and don't carry any loot on us

[muted condor]

This is it

I was really thinking about making a Raider cosplay before the game fell off for me

[compact tundra]

Embark to me feels like they're really good at making great games but are horrible at actually giving those games a lifetime and maintaining them. I have played arc so I can't speak on it but I definitely see this in the finals

[muted condor]

They are great at making games but horrible at the love service side

[indigo nexus]

the arc raiders community is constantly awash with complaints of not-enough-new-stuff

[noble saddle]

Idk I think the finals is great and the problem with a lot of retention issues are weapons like the sword existing and ranked not clearly communicating what players should expect going into it

A lot of the discourse on ranked is simply because nobody fucking understands Elo or tournament seeding

[muted condor]

They should really try none live service games

[tardy light]

i think people understand seeding it just isnt fun

[indigo nexus]

I dread the idea that I may one day feel incentivised to develop a live service game of some sort, the cool ideas I have are mainly live service kinda things

[noble saddle]

I think that it's less to do with seeding and more that this game hasn't ever let Elo actually sort itself out

By the time people are in their proper rank the season ends and it's hard reset

That's the problem. At least now they're finding ways to get people into their proper ranks sooner, which will make ranked play much better.

Notably Elo doesn't hard reset anymore

Bad players need to demote faster and good players need to promote faster

[compact tundra]

If I made a game it'd either be a live service shooter or a Sci-fi/fantasy colony sim (akin to rimworld and dwarf fortress)

[noble saddle]

Also for the love of God disable contracts in ranked holy shit, or at least provide alternatives for ranked

Like contract would be "throw 5 carriables or win 2 ranked games" or something like that

[tardy light]

yea season is way too short for how much variance there is in 24 player ffa matchmaking

[noble saddle]

The problem was the hard resets not the short seasons

At least now ranked should feel like I'm actually investing in my Elo slowly instead of just losing all my shares each season lol

[indigo nexus]

The problem is, if you make a live service game, you can't really do anything else without reputational damage. You are expected to endlessly work on it, and work on it a lot, so you need enough resources to maintain a capable team just for it, or it's not going to work

[tardy light]

there is pretty good memory for the following seasons placements at least

[noble saddle]

It was a hard reset each season until this one

[indigo nexus]

Even though I think dwarf fortress is awesome I wouldn't try to make something that'd compete with it, as it's got a couple of decades on me :p

[noble saddle]

Maybe your last season would influence what games you got as placement, but now it's much less luck based what your placement will be

[compact tundra]

Eh colony sims are so few and far between that I don't even think they really compete just more capture a different player base for the same style. Like obviously they'd compete but there's such an empty field that it's literally just dwarf fortress, rimworld, or you. And since they are single player games there's no need to grind and you can switch between them

[stoic garden]

you should try RimWorld

[stoic garden]

i Guess there's more hidden games like going medieval

but I've never really played it, so idk much more on it than just 1 video i saw a few years ago

[sudden pewter]

Rimworld

[stoic garden]

rimworld glaze segment of the conversation

[sudden pewter]

You could also try Skull & Bones, the gaming industries first AAAA title

[stoic garden]

do you mean to say jeff bezos made that shit

[compact tundra]

To me the guns in rimworld is what makes it so fun especially the combat. When you fight in rimworld it's literally like controlling a combat diagram. You set up positions, set up rescue teams, set up fall back points, angles to shoot from, different positions for different ranges. It literally feels like you're playing a literal combat diagram or battle map and it's so fun

[sudden pewter]

The game is powered by poor Vietnamese game devs blood and tears.

Ubisoft literally abused Vietnamese people to get the game out the door. Dead serious

[stoic garden]

and then there's other strategic aspects with the dlcs, abilities, psycasts, gear, lots of fun

I've been playing the game since v1.2, so basically before ideology came out

[compact tundra]

Yea its just so much you can use but all of it feels like your controlling pawns at a battle planning table and I love it. Especially since I almost always play with a no deaths rule it really makes me strategize and use every pawn effectively

[compact tundra]

I'm on console, all we have is royalty and ideology and I hate it. I wish they'd support console again and fix this shit so I can actually enjoy the game I paid for

[stoic garden]

sometimes i make fellas in my runs die, sometimes i go runs where nobody dies and i gotta lock in asf because I'm a builder and often undergeared

[stoic garden]

console doesn't have biotech?

this game is so fire with mods you can never go back, although console ui looks way better

[compact tundra]

Nope, we also are missing core features from the base game like the ability to set up multiple colonies on one play through. We are hard stuck with a 1 colony limit so if you wanna move you have to abandon your colony

[compact tundra]

Ok I will say the console UI and controls are stellar

[stoic garden]

well, 1.6 did allow to set up camps around the world and shit like that, if only they updated console..

[noble saddle]

Light over extends and dies in the first team fight tryna hero play for no reason

"thank you!"
"thank you!"
"thank you!"
"thank you!"

[compact tundra]

Oh sorry we did get ideology, I was mis remembering

Oh wait never mind I'm dumb.

Yea no biotech

[stoic garden]

sucks

i wouldn't play console until anomaly dropped on it, by far my favorite dlc (in concept, anyway)

[compact tundra]

Yea but the worst part is the missing base features. I usually run 80+ colonist colonies and the inability to set up outpost for mining or resource gathering is genuinely detrimental to the game for me

[stoic garden]

it's such a niche dlc that in the insane fucking modding community there's very few actually decent mods for it

and it's really hard to design a good mod for it as well

[compact tundra]

Honestly mods sound fun but id be so happy with just the dlcs and core game components. Like I literally just want to play the game and I can't cause they stopped working on the console edition

[stoic garden]

I'm a bit of a solar sausage when it comes to balance and good design for my RimWorld packs

[stoic garden]

i Lowkey doomscroll RimWorld steam workshop for hours on end sometimes

my max is like 2 hours consecutively, in the end i downloaded like 15 mods total or something

my pack is at 290 mods currently 🤔

[tidal cave]

So I was thinking... We need skins for the healers. What about a garden hose for the h+ and a fire hose for the heal beam? #weaponskins

[compact tundra]

Bro just out here flexing while I'm starving on the side of the road

[stoic garden]

do you have any pc at all

[compact tundra]

I don't own any PC

[slow linden]

I have a shitty PC that I have to play tf2 on free hours of geforcenow with ads

[stoic garden]

cuz RimWorld has been optimized a billion times and has the most optimizations mods its ever had so far, you could run that shit on 8gb ram shitass cpu/gpu laptops

[compact tundra]

I don't even own a lenovo laptop bro 😭 😭

[stoic garden]

obviously i dont recommend getting such a laptop for just RimWorld, and dont run windows with that shit or opening anything will take ages

[stoic garden]

hop on backmarket lil bro

[compact tundra]

Bro what black market 😭. I would jail break my Xbox to play steam but then I'd probably get banned on the finals

[stoic garden]

worth ngl

[compact tundra]

Bro my account got beta skins it's not worth it at all

[stoic garden]

https://www.backmarket.com/en-us this

[dawn cave]

Mp5 any good ?

[stoic garden]

it's alright yea

[sudden pewter]

Pretty decent, middle child of M11 and ARN

[indigo nexus]

Tried it a bit, rim world might be better with 200 mods but dwarf fortress is more interesting to me so far

Its biggest weakness is that it’s on a 2D plane, though some of the mechanics were nice

[stoic garden]

I've seen little of dwarf fortress, what charms you so much about it?

[indigo nexus]

In part perhaps the scale of it, the engineering challenges posed in three dimensions

With the recent-ish siege update, the enemies are also a lot more interesting as they can build and to some extent mine in order to attack you

[stoic garden]

now that's something RimWorld really struggles at

[indigo nexus]

So in my fortress, the chamber that trapped an entire army inside closing gates and drowned them in magma now might backfire if they knock down the gate at the front and flood part of my fortress! Very fun

[stoic garden]

the raids (both yours and the ai's) are pretty underwhelming, somtimes predictable and counterable if not repetitive, some mods and dlcs help with this, but the fundamental problem is that it's often just "yo, the shitass society is attacking by ramming themselves at your colony, kill them"

[indigo nexus]

Low-key flooded my fort too multiple times with various engineering mistakes, but that’s mostly an inconvenience

[indigo nexus]

Hah, dwarf fortress isn’t a lot better here to be fair, sieges are mostly the same even if they have some intelligence to them. But you have other threats from time to time like dragons or forgotten beasts in the underground caverns

[stoic garden]

i guess RimWorld has things like that in the form of world map threats and quests, but it's not that much different from "yo, kill these mfs"

[indigo nexus]

Rimworld’s combat is a lot more hands on, so that’s a bit more interesting. In dwarf fortress you can tell your soldiers who to kill or where to go, but they don’t necessarily follow your orders.

In general you can’t order dwarves around further than say “when it’s convenient, would someone please do this”

[stoic garden]

killing mfs IS fun and satisfying considering that you can do it in many ways, with a lot of gear and strategies, but sometimes it gets repetitive

fortunately the game aint just about fighting

[stoic garden]

how often does this lead to fucking you over

[indigo nexus]

Weeell, it depends on what you mean by that. Your dwarves with swords and spears tend to charge at any enemy they see and so they’ll gladly give their lives against overwhelming odds if you let them. Sometimes you need a lever pulled to activate some mechanism immediately and the person who comes to do it is just really far away because everyone else was preoccupied

But it’s not a huge deal as you have a lot of dwarves compared to rimworld pawns (can have a couple hundred in a fortress)

[stoic garden]

oh alright

RimWorld really pushes you towards an average of like 12 colonists total, any extras will be hard to get without proper care

[indigo nexus]

You can do proper construction projects in dwarf fortress which is nice, my current fort has a huge golden skibidi toilet statue in it for some reason. And a very elaborate throne room

[stoic garden]

since enemies you can capture get increasingly more likely to instantly die when incapacitated the more your colonist count grows

by the lategame, only 5% of raiders might get downed and not die

[stoic garden]

goofy

[indigo nexus]

While the graphics are 2D there are tools available to show a 3D perspective of the world, here’s an old image of said throne room: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/580418546090246174/1390805554745577482/image.png?ex=69fc5a5c&is=69fb08dc&hm=808eaec3c74317ff58a3def74c49bba51764bfb58952a55900b13859fc15bd16&

[stoic garden]

yea construction is a bit limited in RimWorld, especially since z layer doesn't exist (a mod that adds it to good effect does tho)

[indigo nexus]

Huh, that’s good to know

[stoic garden]

RimWorld is topdown tho, dont expect to make beautiful builds that you can see all at once

in the latest update, apparently making a room with different work facilities slows them down by 10% which i find really annoying and fucked up

so you can't have, say, a research counter and a smithy in the same room without the debuff

[indigo nexus]

Rimworld also seems to lock its additional content behind pricey DLCs, while DF keeps getting better at no extra cost, so that’s something. Soon it’ll have a new procedural magic system for proper wizardry and sorcery shenanigans

[stoic garden]

yes, RimWorld locks features that would fit in a normal content update behind dlcs, very bad practice but oh well, i dont have to worry about that 😄

i guess the content updates aren't all too bad, they still add qol and some new tidbits every major update

now that i think about it, dlcs seem to be designed as mostly their own thing, with only partial integration with the others

the two latest dlcs, odyssey and anomaly DO NOT MIX WELL

mostly just odyssey essentially disabling 80% of anomaly's content by virtue of utilizing the traveling base it offers, although I'm a bit exaggerating

RimWorld has a pretty fun magic system, but it's locked behind their first dlc, and is completely its own thing, almost never touched by the other dlcs

[indigo nexus]

Rimworld handles the basics of life quite well compared to DF if that makes sense, that’s something I’d like to see redone in DF. In rimworld, time moves much more slowly but the years only have 60 days, which means they have vaguely realistic timings for when they need to do stuff and them getting sidetracked to go and do something isn’t as big a deal time-wise

If a goblin siege shows up at your fortress and you want to parley with them, your mayor needs to go out and speak to them. But if your mayor is just busy doing other stuff, even though they’ve got like a week of time to do it, they can just fail to get there in time!

It’s crazily fast honestly, but a lot of activities don’t take a proportionally shorter amount of time to compensate

such as moving around, worshipping, socialising… as a result it can take a couple of days for a dwarf to walk from one end of the fortress to the other, and they only eat / drink like every month

[thorn goblet]

These are all gaming tropes, they arent unique to overwatch and existed beforehand

For instance, winch claw is literally just scorpion from mortal combat lmao

Cloak is just spy TF2

Dashing became popular with NES platformers iirc

Defibs being from Mercy? My brother in christ have you never heard of the Battlefield series?

Both 3 and 4 came out more than 3 years before the original Overwatch

I’d say dome shield serves a similar purpose to Armorlocking from HALO

[blissful mantle]

Meep

[sudden pewter]

Suggesting The Finals lifts anything from Overwatch is laudable given how cookie cutter OW always has been

Everyone knows The Finals is a doom clone because doom invented guns

[slow linden]

Half of overwatchs characters are directly ripped from paladins 🗣🗣🔉🔉🔉💯💯💯

[sudden pewter]

Not even joking Paladins does hero shooter genre infinitely better than Overwatch

[slow linden]

Mauga is just raum but castrated

They play the exact same

[sudden pewter]

In Overwatch you’re not playing with (character) you’re playing as (character). You have a single, structured way you have to play or you lose. Paladins with its card system and store lets you customize how you want to play your paladin.

I was a top 3% Maeve player btw 🙂

[slow linden]

Sadly they stopped updating paladins entirely and may shut it down

[sudden pewter]

Hi-Rez so I’m not surprised

[slow linden]

As a yag main I'm devastated because there will never be a character like that again

I played pip,raum,and yag

[alpine sphinx]

defi respawns HAVE to be affected by mines

like it is an absolute necessity for defi to have any reasonable right to exist in this game

mindlessly defibrillating a trapped statue should result in the revived taking significant damage and the reviver too. There needs to be more counterplay to defi

[viscid carbon]

XP-54 lowk hella slept on

beats M11 in range and recoil and ARN in TTK

plays really well with cloak also

[tardy light]

this is why its slept on

[viscid carbon]

probably

[tardy light]

people play dash and its easier to dash m11 than dash xp, or stay at range with arn

[viscid carbon]

cloak is insanely underrated too

[tardy light]

yea probably, people are meta slaves

[viscid carbon]

I love the LH1, XP and V9S and all of them are insane on cloak

[tardy light]

grapple lh1 is kinda busted unless you unfortunately are caught with grapple off cd

[viscid carbon]

93R as well is really good on cloak

[tardy light]

its like a better sniper (lh1)

[viscid carbon]

ARN is a bit underwhelming on cloak

I used to really like it on dash though

Cloak is reliant on high bursts of damage rather than sustain, so

[indigo nexus]

M11 - dash
XP - cloak
ARN - grapple

I guess? Though meta-wise that may not be accurate

[tardy light]

that is the most intuitive

[viscid carbon]

ARN is great on dash too

XP’s biggest flaw is its reload speed but that doesn’t really matter on cloak

[vocal stone]

Damn this is such a blast from the past, i loved paladins and mostly played Raum, then i took liking of Zhin and i was lucky that i bought his star-wars-like skin from the bounty market while it was still working

[alpine sphinx]

the average medium players brain needs to be studied

the amount of mediums dismissing everything else that is happening only to go for a pointless defib is actually insane

10 seconds left and enemy is stealing the cashout? nah demat the wall instead of the floor under cashout, so you can try to pull of a defib and fail miserably as well as losing the cashout

[astral grove]

we need to revive everyone
nobody gets left behind (except for the win)

[sudden pewter]

Had my first Riot game ever yesterday, going to play around with dual blades today. Gotta say it felt really good, my only complaint with Riot Shield is dying when you’re blocking and I can’t tell if it’s latency or if they’re shooting my feet?

[eager wasp]

most likely the feet

[sudden pewter]

No, impossible. That cannot be the case, I’m gods gift to gaming and I never die. It has to be the servers. Stupid stinky Embark servers yes-yes, that’s why they obscure the ping don’t you know?

[fossil elk]

Is this animation new?

[versed finch]

believe they revamped it this season

Alright, so if embark just doesn't want to balance and fix their game, just remove every gun besides the M11, FCAR and Shak-50 and call it a day

I'd rather only have the option to run broken weapons than try to run my own kit and get demolished because embark desides everything I run is a problem to the game's meta

[tardy light]

the meta isnt THAT harsh, trust

[indigo nexus]

seems such a miserable outlook

[floral wigeon]

off meta is viable at every rank

[sudden pewter]

Off Meta has a surprise factor

[slow linden]

Coward.

Poor broken thing

[calm yarrow]

Counterpick system. When you choose weapon/or just hover your the cursor on the weapon/spec/gadget, the icon appears with counterpicks to this item.

[somber tiger]

There's some off meta stuff that's still usable in ranked, so you might as well use it before Embark decides to nerf it.

[hardy dust]

Most meta picks aren't head and shoulders above the rest, just a bit better

Especially for guns since most don't change your playstyle as much

[spring oasis]

There will always be a meta, you want the meta to be composed of things that encourage healthy gameplay. things that encourage healthy gameplay are not niche, specialized weapons, they are normal fps guns. The meta being composed of normal guns is less prohibitive on alternative approaches than niche, specialized weapons are. As a user of non-meta gear in a full auto weapon meta, it is in your best interest for the meta to remain full auto weapons

[proud rampart]

Codebreakers broke the finals

[keen wing]

pls fix server

[broken mulch]

my bad guys i dropped the servers

[solemn phoenix]

are the servers down ?

[sudden pewter]

I eated all the deditated wam for the serber

[slow linden]

https://tenor.com/view/sorry-i-tripped-gif-10322219550035196390

[slow linden]

This but server instead of road

[obtuse hemlock]

I want a nuclear bomb that destroys half the map

[slender bear]

Coming to Heavy in S11

[somber tiger]

Does 100 damage so you can't one shot combo lights with winch.

[slender bear]

They'd probably just make it map-wide and let it one tap Heavy too

Not that that matters while Mesh exists

[tight falcon]

had a teammate hold out the defib in the charged position and w key for a solid 5 seconds while getting lit up

didn't even revive 🤦

[somber tiger]

There's 3 universal strategies in solo queue: Lights running in and immediately dying, mediums defibing while getting shot by three people, and heavies not existing.

[ebon dew]

some ppl can do all 3 of those at once

[slow linden]

I am the one heavy in soloq and I must suffer greatly for it

[spring oasis]

The unholy trinity

[tardy light]

jeez lex just summoned the army in #⚡┇the-finals-chat

[versed finch]

It's not safe in there

Not like it's ever been

[fossil elk]

Since when did smash and slam do infinite damage

[tardy light]

when it pushes you into void

[fossil elk]

I was on a map without a void

[tardy light]

ok then hax

[kindred gorge]

Were you within kill range or full health

[kindred gorge]

What an oddly specific cheat though, if that were the case

[tardy light]

i wasnt seriously alleging cheats, just saying hax jokingly to mean i have no idea how

[kindred gorge]

I didn’t think you were, I was just surmising

[fossil elk]

Can’t you guys tell what map it is

[tardy light]

not rlly its a small screenshot

[fossil elk]

It’s obviously sk st so basically I lied

[tardy light]

oh is that near the box in between 2 buildings

[fossil elk]

Ya so basically I Got sent to the shadow realm when I was using dual blades

[tardy light]

so i answered yer question >:(

[fossil elk]

I already knew the answer I just wanted to get a free conversation so I get more xp

[tardy light]

haha

[fossil elk]

This is something I genuinely don’t understand. How did this kill me?

[tardy light]

black thumbnail. rick roll spotted. not clicking

ok i watched it, the answer is riot shield doesnt have perfect coverage, minigun is probably the best weapon to take advantage of that, and also the block is inconsistent due to server issues (im guessing) even when it looks like a bullet was supposed to be blocked

[somber tiger]

That happens when you slam someone into an unbreakable wall. They just die.

[manic field]

some bullets can go through the slit through which you can see

Soo it can damage you

[cyan seal]

is the famas that good still or no

[manic field]

yeah its sjill good

tho it is a llittle bit worse for killing lights

[cyan seal]

but is it as good as fcar

[steel knoll]

fcar is one of the best on mediums, other than the new crossbow or lever action rifle but thats only if you hit your shots

[floral wigeon]

nothing is

[viscid carbon]

Adder reflex is goated ngl

The moment I put it on my XP I was immediately more consistent

[last steeple]

Revolver is

[viscid carbon]

Better at longer ranges because of the small dot, and then the circular housing and 3 lines help with centering

But gg if you miss lol

[boreal anchor]

is the pike any good? or is the crossbow better

[eager wasp]

pike okay, crossbow also good but shorter ranged

[sudden pewter]

Legendary double ass

[slow linden]

Brilliant work

[candid vessel]

Revolver is good but not fcar good

[last steeple]

Indeed because revolver is better than fcar, it's harder to use tho

[candid vessel]

Idk man the fcar is way more versatile

[last steeple]

Well it has more range

Repeater is I think better too

But it's close between those 3

Because poke is good

[candid vessel]

Like a lot of weapons in this game thrive in a final round/H2H environment, because their punishing nature means that the disorderly chaos of knockout rounds can mean u can easily get screwed. Revolver and BFR fit into this category aswell as other stuff. Like they’re still good definitely but they shine brightest in a 3v3. This goes the other way too tho, a lot of weapons need chaos to thrive. But because of the sort of split dynamic and the versatility of ARs, overall they’re the best

[candid vessel]

Repeater’s viability depends purely on the opponents team comp. Lots of lights? It fucks pretty hard. Lots of heavies? Bin it off. Its pretty decent against mediums too.

[last steeple]

Revolver having one extra ammo and being on medium instead of heavy makes it less punitive than the bfr, and ofc it's a high risk high reward weapon but even in a chaotic environment it doesn't loose that much performance, and since the finals is a very teamplay oriented game, decent to great teams will always play together even when it's hard to

But I don't even think that you need to be in a 3v3 in order to use the revolver at it's full potential

If you can consistently hit your shots this thing is nasty, even in close range against a light it's not that hard (it is hard but not impossible)

[last steeple]

Nah it's not bad against heavies either

[candid vessel]

BFR and revolver both leave you with the same amount of bullets after a kill on all 3 classes tho

[candid vessel]

Yeah but beaming a light with an AR is both easier and kills them faster

[candid vessel]

Its pretty horrendous. 5 shots to kill

[fathom thicket]

what is the best gun for heavy?

[candid vessel]

Shak

[last steeple]

If you don't hit any headshot and if ennemies dont take any other damages, seems like a lot of conditions but actually it will happen often, + the counterpart to ts is that you can poke, and poke is strong 🧍‍♂️

[last steeple]

What are the ttks?

[candid vessel]

Poke is only strong against people too scared to push

[candid vessel]

AKM is exactly 0.8 seconds, rounded revolver is 0.86 (on a light)

[last steeple]

Not true, fear isn't the only thing that makes poke strong wth

You're telling me pros and insane players are just scared of poke ? 😭

[last steeple]

But 2 dmgs from anyone or a qm makes it the time to shoot one bullet, while not having to peek constantly on mid range

[alpine sphinx]

18 minutes until goo is dead?

[last steeple]

Until goo melee might die* (but ye)

[alpine sphinx]

I pray they do something sensible and don't just remove an entire niche for no reason

[last steeple]

In 2 mins you'll know..

[alpine sphinx]

Goo is dead.

[last steeple]

@muted condor

[last steeple]

A bit better than in .3, and interactions got fixed tho

[viscid carbon]

Nice the new update is pretty much just nerfs across the board

[last steeple]

SHOCKWAVE IS BACK TOO

[viscid carbon]

Except that, demat still left in the gutter though

Amazing mid-season update

[last steeple]

Sadly 💀but current demat is better than nerfed shockwave, it needed a buff but not as much as shockwave

"M11 cannibalized xp, GIVE IT MORE RANGE"

[wild zenith]

are the manual action changes impactful at all?

[plucky spade]

SPEAR IS FIXED(?)

Shockwave is back

[vocal stone]

So they kind of came up with a compromise with goo as i expected, but will it really make a difference compared to 10.3 change

[last steeple]

Imagine nerfing vanish bomb but not buffing camo

[vocal stone]

0.35 still seems like not enough, but it needs to be tested

[plucky spade]

Melee goo should be in a hospital, ekazo is eating good and m11 players will no longer create long range beaming montages ( it's not exciting to see only 2 bars in 40 bullets )

V9s got tickled ( reload time might as well not exist )

[indigo nexus]

Aw, no counter-buff for goo

0.35 isn’t that bad though

[plucky spade]

0.35 may still be enough but not annoying

[arctic zodiac]

Yeah awesome thanks Embark WTF!

[plucky spade]

the falloff still starts before xp's so maybe it's fine

[indigo nexus]

“Despite being fairly popular, the Akimbo Pistols tend to underperform compared to most Heavy weapons.”

Hm, this is the first explicit acknowledgement from embark that they are willing to buff popular weapons

[calm yarrow]

For melee goo this is most likely a sentence.

[alpine sphinx]

the last nerf was .2, but .35 is still enough to make melee goo completely unviable

[plucky spade]

Is it or is it just harder now?

[calm yarrow]

I will test this, but I have a really low hopes.

[last steeple]

Might need to try to be sure

[indigo nexus]

I wouldn’t say completely, you just can’t goo them from most of the way across a room, get out your melee and start attacking before the goo breaks.

[alpine sphinx]

I will try it as soon as i'm done updating, but that is a reduction of over 50%, you are probably not even able to swap to your weapon before the goo breaks

[indigo nexus]

You’ll probably need to goo them twice in a such a circumstance and will gain less of a ttk edge

[alpine sphinx]

you couldnt do that before either

[indigo nexus]

You very much could, 0.8s is a lot

[plucky spade]

Also im sure they didn't really fix the goo not blocking sight, 0.35 is just the minimum time it takes for the game to recognize sightline as broken

[indigo nexus]

<@&1012034066876473384>

[plucky spade]

Also elevators finally work like every other game

[slow linden]

Just react with red square gng

[rocky marten]

thanks 🦖

[slow linden]

Diannosaur

[plucky spade]

Imma say w midseason update

But I still believe that midseason updates should be more balancing heavu

[slow linden]

They usually do something right by mid-season or past it

[vocal stone]

Embark is ruled by reptiles confirmed

[slow linden]

I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse

[alpine sphinx]

goo nerf and m11 range buff, how tf can you call this a w

[plucky spade]

Range buff and after 20m you're getting tickled

[alpine sphinx]

at its most frequent range it was buffed was it not?

[sharp wasp]

im glad they made the goo still last long enough to block interactions

[plucky spade]

It's most effective range is 10 - 15, once you count the target in cm from your view you can't land sll shots

Actually

[vocal stone]

I don't understand why would they even consider buffing m11 range at first place

[plucky spade]

Since the coefficient is reduced, it deals the same damage as before

[alpine sphinx]

You don't need to even hit half your shots with a 1000rpm and 16 damage

[plucky spade]

Like it most probably is the same 0.53 coef at 17.5, but at 20 it's 0.45

[indigo nexus]

ah, finally, spin seems actually fixed

[plucky spade]

So yeah, nerf but you need to think abt it a bit more

Holy fuck you all are ship tool brained i just realised

[indigo nexus]

oh, RIP V9S (kinda), my poor aim can no longer crutch on its mag size so much

Don't actually know what I'll run on light instead since that gun did way better than any other for me :p

[plucky spade]

M11

[indigo nexus]

M11 has too little range for me

[plucky spade]

???

[indigo nexus]

another one? Same advert? <@&1012034066876473384>

[indigo nexus]

What's confusing

[indigo nexus]

here's the M11 range "buff"

[plucky spade]

It has the same range characteristics now, just slightly less min range

I guess recoil is uncontrollable true

[alpine sphinx]

holy unreadable graph,

[indigo nexus]

Huh? It had longer falloff ranges and a higher damage mult

It still has a significantly longer min falloff range and now a much higher damage mult, and yes no recoil too

[plucky spade]

Bro has never seen a graph in their lives

[alpine sphinx]

what are all the extra lines

[indigo nexus]

it says what they are at the top

[alpine sphinx]

bro i woke up like 30 minutes ago 😭

[indigo nexus]

chimera range nerf is fairly significant

[alpine sphinx]

ahh i see, very small font size

[plucky spade]

I just realised

You are the prime toolbrained person
" Stats good MUST mean it good "

[alpine sphinx]

i mean on most of the realistic ranges that the m11 chooses to fight on, this is a buff

[indigo nexus]

slightly, but I really doubt the larger disadvantage over every higher range is not going to compensate for that adequately

[plucky spade]

Literally incosequential, ping normalises that difference

Genuinely you can't even feel the difference

[alpine sphinx]

How would ping normalise that? The damage value across10-17.5m is higher, so its gonna perform better than before at those ranges

[indigo nexus]

You won't be able to feel it for sure but that doesn't make it inconsequential, and ping isn't really related

[plucky spade]

Because it's a 0.01s difference

[alpine sphinx]

its more than that, but yes it is a small buff to an already extremely overtuned weapon which is insane

[indigo nexus]

here's the current range comparison for the guns

[quartz kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-light-the-finals-light-gif-2971608258220595260

[plucky spade]

Alright if you feel like it's that big a difference ig vro

In the grand scheme of things m11 is nerfed and v9s does what it's meant to do

[chilly granite]

Now that we’ve had a solid period of time to see the Chimera settle in the meta, it’s outperforming some of the longer ranged weapons at distance, which was not intended. These adjustments should nudge it more towards the mid-range bracket

oh my who could've guessed that a weapon with 0 recoil outperforms weapons with recoil, despite having "less dps" at range

[plucky spade]

And you're severely overhyping the """""buff"""""

[quartz kayak]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1360485138630312016/plsmpreg.gif

[plucky spade]

Was it really that good?

[alpine sphinx]

i said its a small buff which it objectively is at most ranges it fights on?

[chilly granite]

it was better than the revolver and the pike, although possibly not better than the repeater @plucky spade

[indigo nexus]

Oh, this is actually funny, this had been in the game since launch

[plucky spade]

Yes

[chilly granite]

the pike had like, 4x the recoil of the chimerea after the first shot

[indigo nexus]

I thought it was intentional for how long it had been here

[alpine sphinx]

huh i thought this was an intended mechanic

[alpine sphinx]

yes, so its a buff to an already insanely good weapon, which is stupid

[plucky spade]

In tf2 if you called spy while aiming at a cloaked one it would shout the spy specific one

[indigo nexus]

Well no, you're making the point that X is true and then sidestepping into that Y is true because X is involved with Y, while ignoring the very big Z in the room

[viscid carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1267625607114526831/1301196580497522780/togif.gif

[plucky spade]

Ok go and whine for them to lower the multiplier by 0.01 for your ass to see two lines align

[viscid carbon]

This patch proves this once again

I also adore their philosophy of “let’s make the meta feel like ass so people settle for less” instead of buffing the off-meta into viability, yk, like a normal balance team

[plucky spade]

What wasn't deserved though

[alpine sphinx]

No I am saying that while it is true that it was ranged at very long range, its not super often used in very long range anyways which means that nerf is less consequential than the buff it receives at close ranges

[vocal stone]

SHOCKWAVE IS OFFICIALLY BACK, BACK TO DUNKING PEOPLE

[indigo nexus]

Do you think any of these changes are controversial?

Or, I guess the goo gun one is. It's funny, I've seen on the subreddit the majority opinion on the goo gun under a post seems to just be dependant on how elaborate the arguments made are for either side, both get a load of upvotes if they're explained thoroughly enough

[vocal stone]

Waiting for demat buff next

[viscid carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/invincible-mark-mark-grayson-spaghetti-conquest-gif-8509359667451820648

[plucky spade]

V9s, m11, chimera and googun nerf, deagle spear shockwave buff

[indigo nexus]

If it was used many times more at 10-17.5m than it was at 17.5m+ then it could be a buff, but this is hard to determine. It definitely relegates it more to its intended role, because the problem was that a player with good recoil control could still beam players down at longer distances, which is now much less doable. 17.5m is not a long distance.

[vocal stone]

"stay ready for my buff, worm"

[alpine sphinx]

yes and my point is that there was no reason to make it better at what it already excelled at

[plucky spade]

They just wanted it to still deal the same damage at 17.5 there

[chilly granite]

Sights now show their zoom level (Slight, Enhanced, Strong) in the equipment screen when selected

holy shit innovation

[wild zenith]

are the manual action changes meaningful, or nothing more than qol?

[plucky spade]

And we still can't change sights in practice range

[alpine sphinx]

no, they specifically said they want to improve its optimal range a bit to offset the damage falloff on long range

[indigo nexus]

In their own words it was to offset the longer range nerf. It's not clear that embark intended for this to be an overall nerf.

[alpine sphinx]

nerfing something a weapon is already bad at in order to buff something it is already super good at is a buff, cause the bad thing already wasnt optimal

[chilly granite]

dude if it takes them this long to edit a text file how long do you think it'd take them to add new technology

[plucky spade]

Bro for real I expect bigger changes during the midseason ngl

[viscid carbon]

remove the delay and increase the cooldown to 30 seconds per charge 💀

legit not allowed to have fun in this game

[alpine sphinx]

also damn

[indigo nexus]

100% dependant on the magnitudes.

Relegating a weapon further into a niche is a big deal. If the M11 became better at long range but still not good (like it was many seasons ago), that would be a massive buff by massively extending the space in which the gun will win fights.

[viscid carbon]

meta gets nerfed until it feels so sluggish that people have to settle for less, welcome to balance

[vocal stone]

Imo all they needed to do is just to remove 1 charge from demat, without this delay bs

[alpine sphinx]

meta barely gets touched in this game, the balancing heavily favors a settling meta

[viscid carbon]

I'm actually just gonna switch my badge to light main

Medium ain't making a comeback anytime soon

goybeam fcar with goo/pad/fib or throw

f u n

[chilly granite]

it's actually a huge deal tbh

part of why the m11 is meta in ruby is because you have the fuckoff dps in cqb, but you still meaningfully contribute to fights even at ultralong range

being a peashooter at ultralong range now means that your team can't dominate from rooftops, and then dominate in cqb too

[vocal stone]

Sanguine broke my heart when he switched to light, but i understand why

[viscid carbon]

let's give demat another charge but double the fucking cooldown like sure I guess bro

and you fear for your life to use the 3rd charge anyway because the cooldown will fuck you over when you actually need it

[weary timber]

Hi the heavy shotgun that has 4 burst shots and does it 4 times why does that gun lose a 1v1 vs a medium crossbow while i hit all my pellets on him ?

[chilly granite]

@short osprey plus, high skilled players basically only used the m11 either within optimal, or deep falloff

it's basically never in the middle zone, because the mid zone is where other teams might punsih you

you triple dash to get on top of enemy light and then facefuck em with m11 dps

you don't peek the enemy light at distance unless you're playing wtih all your teammates, where it's not relevent

and the distance where you're taking those long distance m11 fights, it's more like 30-80m not 10-20m

[viscid carbon]

what is this china skin god damn lol

[chilly granite]

you didn't hit all your pellets is the answer

[weary timber]

He was point blank and i was aiming at his torso

[chilly granite]

recording?

[weary timber]

I doubt i am that bad to miss all my pellets on him

[chilly granite]

memory is falliable and the gun has recoil

go try it in practice range

[weary timber]

The sa shotgun dmg is horrible compared yo literally everything else i can use

[mental copper]

were you perhaps getting shot from behind aswell?

[chilly granite]

I mean it doesn't matter if he got shot from behind, if he hit 4 shots, they die

[mental copper]

fair

[weary timber]

No it was 1v1 and i do less dmg with this specific weapon compared to the shak and the m60 i use those the most

[chilly granite]

go try it in practice range on the medium dummy

you're either understimating the spread, or handling the recoil poorly

[weary timber]

I seem to do more dmg w the m60 or the shack or whatever its called and i feel like i do nothing while using the specific shotgun

[vocal stone]

And i don't understand why for example Appoh says "changes to demat this season were pretty solid", like, i understand that he is playing at a really high level, but really? Solid?

[chilly granite]

shak and m60 both have no recoil so you're probably handling the recoil poorly

[weary timber]

Maybe

[viscid carbon]

embark creator

[chilly granite]

try it in the practice range, and see how it feels, it will make it quite clear what the issue was

[weary timber]

It does pack a good punch but when they are point blank i dont ads i just aim at the torso

[warm python]

Welp there a chance he will be back medium bcs of the revert

[indigo nexus]

On rare occasion shotguns may experience hit registration issues where not all pellets register, but this will not be a consistent phenomenon

[chilly granite]

shotguns don't improvfe with ads, so this is correct

are you on controller toxic?

[weary timber]

Idk maybe i suck every other shotgun i used on all classes seems better both dmg and recoil wise

Im on pc and i have pretty decent aim i would say and i manage recoil i play a lot of fps 600hrs on r6

[viscid carbon]

new event skins are all so mid and or/nasty

[weary timber]

I feel like the specific shotgun just sucks compared to everything else

[indigo nexus]

If you take clips of unexpected outcomes you’ll be able to meaningfully dissect what happened rather than relying on, honestly mainly what your brain expected to see

[chilly granite]

burst damage on the sa is unbeatable, so it's 100% that you're doing something wrong

[weary timber]

I have the Fnatic bundle and its the only reason i use the gun that's why im asking

[viscid carbon]

like bro this shit is so nasty I can't

[vocal stone]

I sure hope so, because its kind of funny that almost everything from OG sanguine movement loadout was nerfed: demat was nerfed, model was nerfed, mine was nerfed. It will be hilarious if they nerf jump pad and zipline

[chilly granite]

Go test it out in the practice range

[viscid carbon]

ARN has so many damn skins and so many of them are just mid asf

[weary timber]

Okay ill take a try on the practise range

Even the light pistol that is burst feels like it beats the shotgun on a 1v1

Without light dash

[chilly granite]

Shooting the shots 1 by one without recoil wiill help you feel out the shot damage and spread, and then you can try spraying it to see if the issue is recoil control or your expected range

[weary timber]

Okay i will take a look st it maybe my recoil sucks ass on the specific shotgun

[chilly granite]

the only two issues that can be happenign on the sa is you're using it too far, you're aiming like shit, or you're not handling the recoil

the recoil on it is pretty weird

[weary timber]

Im underperforming incredibly with that specific weapon and ive tried everything

[chilly granite]

and aiming like shit is unlikely

that's why i asked about contorller because the aim assist can make centering (as required for shotguns) hard

[weary timber]

I play pretty defensively so distance isnt it i use barricade healing emiter dome and mesh shield so im close to enemies 90%

Its probably my recoil

[chilly granite]

I mean, you gotta be cuddling lights to hit all your pellets on them

So even if you're close you might not be close enough

[weary timber]

Lights with dash ability i almsot never bother dealing with them cuz i simply cant catch them

My hitbox is too big and im too slow to catch up so i just huddle a corner or play defensively waiting for them to push or make a mistake

[vocal stone]

The only medium's weapon i really enjoy using is cerberus. I know it's hot garbage compared to fcar or revy, but i have that shotgun itch

[chilly granite]

It's not always important to catch them often just dealing enough damage to make them wimp out can be good for winning a fight but the main point is to test the spread and recoil in practice range so you can develop a better understanding of the weapon

[vocal flume]

bruh that p90 skin

DOPE AF!

[calm yarrow]

Actually... there still can be potential in goo sledge. Sledge quick melee combos.
They will not be suboptimal with timings and practice, maybe in some cases even faster. And fight tempo will be much faster.
Secondary attack will not be used at all, but primary is still viable.

Because goo now is disappearing so fast, but not too fast, we can now spam primary + quick melee with animation skip. We can do it without risk lost damage in our own goo.
Goo gun -> primary + quick melee -> goo gun -> primary + quick melee.

[weary timber]

Okay ill give it a go to try the recoil see what im doing wrong

[chilly granite]

The cerb is far from hot garbage, the fact that people even think that is kinda crazy

[vocal stone]

I exaggerating, yeah, but fcar is just more versatile and reliable

[chilly granite]

Fcar is probably op lol

[vocal stone]

Yeah, they overtuned it a bit

[slow linden]

This new mode kinda ass

[chilly granite]

It's some kinda king of the hill/capture the flag hybrid? It did look mid

[alpine sphinx]

the thing is, i would agree if dash didnt exist. This nerf means goo sledge has absolutely no way of fighting lights anymore, even less than it previously had. You are forced to swap off if you see the enemy even playing 1 light because you wont be able to damage them

[slow linden]

The mode is fine,the set loadouts are ass

[chilly granite]

I'm flabbergasted that there didn't have a castle map up their sleeves for the midseason though

[calm yarrow]

Hmmm... I have some thoughts about how to counter it, but I need some tests.

[alpine sphinx]

true this map kind of sucks, its basically a glorified plane with a few buildings

[vocal flume]

fr shit seems like it shoots way slower

[slow linden]

Idc about the crossbow,half the loadouts are just ass

[alpine sphinx]

okay no, i guess i will have to switch to winch, goo is no longer viable

imagine being so lost in life you stall out a final round in an unranked tournament

[warm python]

😭 Why I started to learn his loadout+ shockwave after that season and not before

[warm python]

I can play Pike but it's a hard gun

[vocal stone]

Mediums can't have shit in the finals lmao

[warm python]

I can't wait to DUNK PPL with that revert

Model dunker here I go

[vocal stone]

Hell yea

[warm python]

Type of shit i will do to a Low hp light

[vocal stone]

Deny heal slavery, accept fat light.

[warm python]

If I truly wanted to be efficient I will be agressive AKM heal beam

But like heal not a lot

Each time I find a better angle than my heavy i hate to be dependent on him

[slow linden]

There is no pike in the event mode

[misty elbow]

i dont think anyone here is realistically gonna say spamming quick melee is a fun or effective strategy in practice

[calm yarrow]

Are you try this tech?

[stoic garden]

hop on demat cuh

[misty elbow]

i havent like just now but ive messed with goo gun quick melee and its not viable, especially if they have dash or something, also even so imagine trying to do this tech against a team fight with horrible stun

goo quick melee has been broken ever since they removed the ability to melee through goo

waiting for it to break and then melee is impractical against any actual player

i think atp we just have to accept embark is not gonna listen to the community in regards to goo gun

[calm yarrow]

Actually, I find new tech.
Goo the opponent and immediately quick melee. Because quick melee damage is instant, its reaches foe quicker, than goo blob. And right after damage, goo blob stuns opponent. For more effective way – goo their knees for preventing damage to you and quick melee their head. Its more stable variant, but still need very narrow timings.

[misty elbow]

i mean hey dude if it works for you but im telling you try that in an actual lobby if youre confident and show me it consistently working in a way thats more effective than just shooting the opponent

[calm yarrow]

Fair. )
Welp... another train ark.

[keen rapids]

Who decided to nerf the v9s

[muted condor]

Jesus Christ is was that fucking easy

[shell sonnet]

why would they ever not do it?

[muted condor]

That’s what iv been saying

We’ve know exactly why it didn’t work for ages and they finally got around to doing something about it.

[last steeple]

"A little while" 🤣

[muted condor]

It makes me more pissed at them because it was that easy to fix and they just didn’t because……..?

[last steeple]

Maybe it wasn't a bug but a feature?

[indigo nexus]

low priority I guess?

I don't think a dev ever acknowledged the bug so I'm guessing they weren't very aware of it

[muted condor]

If a weapon being actively broken for over half the game’s life time is low priority I’d hate to know what’s considered high priority

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, I don't understand how it wasn't fixed sooner when all sorts of minor bugs which people don't complain about and may require more than a number change do get fixed

I would guess that there was one or two people responsible for the implementation of the issue in the first place and it just wasn't communicated to them, or... something. I don't really know.

Maybe they were aware of complaints, thought "yeah it's supposed to work like that" without realising how practically damaging it was to the weapon and ignored it for ages as a result

They called it "small quality of life change", which is baffling.

Apparently weapon not functioning is quality of life, haha

[terse bramble]

I want a semi auto shotgun for medium

[somber sluice]

yo idk but when i m using my sword on tangos it doesnt seem to do damage like my openents sword any ideas whats up it seem like low levels player have better swords light weight class

[vocal stone]

Been on demat before shockwave came into the game and after shockwave was nerfed

I want to try out shockwave again, i really like to pair it with cerberus. But imo demat is still better for team fights

[indigo nexus]

tangos? I don’t know what you’re saying

[somber sluice]

enemies = tangos srry

[worn storm]

does the new p90 skin have a different firing sound?

[candid vessel]

Why not just cut the falloff multiplier ffs

These patch notes are so ass they basically did nothing

[alpine sphinx]

They killed goo gun melee functionality tho

[candid vessel]

By patch notes i mean and shouldve said weapon changes because yeah 0.35s from 0.8 is nasty work and basically all they did

THIS IS A BUFF TO M11

IT NOW PERFORMS BETTER BETWEEN 10 AND 18.7 METRES

WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE DOINGGGGGGGGG

[somber tiger]

Finally I can play my favorite loadout: dash, m11, h+, glitch, gateway.

[candid vessel]

Literally was already meta

[somber tiger]

It was sarcasm

[indigo nexus]

They presumably thought that'd be too much of a nerf.

[stoic garden]

making it worse for pros with goated recoil control, for whatever reason

[candid vessel]

So they buffed it instead

10/10 logic

[indigo nexus]

This is not clearly any kind of buff.

[candid vessel]

^^^

[indigo nexus]

And worse to a greater degree everywhere above.

[somber tiger]

This is meant to be the biggest patch of the season and we only got a single buff to one weapon.

[candid vessel]

Nobody’s spraying across the map with an m11. 10-15m is the length of most hallways

[indigo nexus]

17.5m is not "across the map".

[candid vessel]

Never said it was?

[indigo nexus]

The weapon's versatility has been commonly complained about

[indigo nexus]

Your sentence is nonsensical if it isn't.

[candid vessel]

18.7m is comfortably midrange

[indigo nexus]

Why is this relevant?

[candid vessel]

Because thats where the xp54 is supposed to be good

[indigo nexus]

What has this got to do with anything

[candid vessel]

And was already being outperformed by the m11

And will now be more outperformed by the m11

[indigo nexus]

...within a narrow window.

[candid vessel]

People hate it because its versatility means it tramples over other weapons and its now more versatile?

[candid vessel]

Which is the range 60% of gunfights happen

[indigo nexus]

It's less versatile, it's without a doubt been pushed more into its close range role now. Its viable zone now overlaps less with that of guns like the XP-54

[indigo nexus]

Firstly I don't think this is at all accurate, but secondly this also wouldn't be a meaningful argument. The change at longer ranges has been bigger than the change at close range.

[muted condor]

Just realized the spear spin was 100% intentional

[indigo nexus]

In the raw integral differences between its old and new state, about two meters of its new range is as large as the benefits at close range. This is only a buff if the scaled-to-importance sum of the differences at close range is normalised to 1 and the scaled size of the change at mid-long range is less than an unscaled ~2 meters worth.

[muted condor]

The change is under balancing and not bug fixes which means it was that way intentionally this entire time

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, I... don't know what's up with that. I would really like to speak to whoever wrote that dev note.

[muted condor]

Just confirms these devs have clue what they are doing

[sudden pewter]

Genuinely scared.

This is great though

[lavish gate]

hey, what weapon is the medium crossbow based on? like, the real world counterpart

[muted condor]

A crossbow

[shell sonnet]

what are we thinking about dragons claim?

[wind folio]

flamethrower lockbolt combo is free win

[gusty gale]

agreee

plus with charge and slam

[kindred gorge]

BRO

[gusty gale]

?

[kindred gorge]

"Vanishing bomb is better than cloak so we nerfed the bomb"

[gusty gale]

LOL

[kindred gorge]

Which I don't mind but you're actively acknoledging that cloak sucks and doing nothing about it

[gusty gale]

the vanishing bomb is already op and with dash too

[kindred gorge]

They fixed shockwave though huzzah

[gusty gale]

and no one uses it in gold

[kindred gorge]

No one uses vanish bomb in gold?

[gusty gale]

the shockwave bro

[kindred gorge]

See I had to check cause I was gonna call your bs

[gusty gale]

every light uses vanish bomb

bfr should get a buff

[kindred gorge]

gold is the land of "low effort meta" hence why everyone just runs healbeam

A lot of high level players who take the time to get good with it will run shockwave

[sudden pewter]

I’m very afraid of the patch notes because it implies that they’re genuinely considering a rework of the spear

[kindred gorge]

Akimbo hipfire buff is interesting, im excited to try it

[gusty gale]

medium realizing that they can make the heavy op with the heal beam

[gusty gale]

same here

[kindred gorge]

When I'm in a not playing the game and having fun competetion and my opponent is healbeam

[gusty gale]

heavy with heal beam vs heavy with no heal beam big difference

[kindred gorge]

Like I can admit its super viable but I dont see how thats an enjoyable expirience for the medium

[gusty gale]

reasonable

some gold medium doesnt know on how to use the demat properly

[kindred gorge]

Theres levels to demat pun intended

[gusty gale]

Ekazo going absolute menace after the update

[kindred gorge]

chimera range nerf?

A weird psuedo buff for the KS-23 yippee!

[gusty gale]

i see meds dont use it often

[kindred gorge]

That's an absolute lie, its in every lobby Istg

[gusty gale]

my other match had no chimera in it

[kindred gorge]

m11 range nerf but it needs more

[sudden pewter]

@muted condor what are our thoughts on embark reworking the secondary function of the spear? On principle I’m opposed to the notion because it is changing and established weapon into something completely different, that being said the spear is in need of changes and the single use case of a secondary function is rarely if ever present in a match.

[tardy light]

its not mechanically interesting, but being a heal kitten is a satisfying experience on an existential level

[gusty gale]

most used gun LOL

[gusty gale]

heal kitten? i feel like the doctor from tf2

[sudden pewter]

A throw is off the table

[kindred gorge]

The trigger delay was actually a blanket nerf for almost all the shotguns that nice

[gusty gale]

imagine if embark adds to where we can throw the spear

[kindred gorge]

I think it will likely stay conceptually similar but it might end up looking a little different. Like it'll still be an AOE attack but could be one big single spin or a sweeping arc in front

[gusty gale]

reasonable

[kindred gorge]

and a V9S nerf to top it off (its really only gonna impact heavy fights)

but I don't mind it regardless

[gusty gale]

didnt they reduce the mag?

[kindred gorge]

from 20 to 18 yeah

[gusty gale]

20 to 18

0.1 nerf

[kindred gorge]

The only class where you're even dipping into the bottom half of the mag to kill is heavy but if they have dome shield or heal ball then I'll make a big difference

or if they dodge or block 3-4 bullets anyway anyhow

[gusty gale]

100000000000000000000000000000 nerf

winch claw is the king of specialization in heavy class

Embark should add a better training system so that need players can actually experiment

Imagine adding to where you can choose any map and explore

BFR Titan is slept so hard

[muted condor]

As long as it’s not a throw

If they change it to a throw I’m going to fly to Europe to take a shit in front of their doors

[gusty gale]

Throw is op

[quick vine]

Day one of asking for mythic gun skin sa1216

[grave dragon]

what scope are you using with Scar guys?

[alpine sphinx]

losing 700 points because im seeding 1 and 1 guy disconnects instantly is fun

The seeding system is sooooo fucking stupid man

[indigo nexus]

what it could do is recompute the predictions based on the new RS of the teams

and do some interpolation between the two states if someone reconnects based on how long they were gone for, though it would have to be significantly more punishing than direct proportion or it'd be exploitable

that would just be a little more accurate than how it works now, I think..?

||stop calling it "the seeding system", the name makes no sense!||

[candid vessel]

Not getting all your RS refunded if someone leaves is ridiculous

[indigo nexus]

Getting all your RS refunded would be ridiculous, that'd be easily exploitable

[candid vessel]

I mean not really if the person who leaves gets punished

And you have a certain cutoff time of how far into the match it happens, like in many other games

[sudden pewter]

Guarantee it won’t be a throw. But it’ll likely be something with actual utility? Perhaps a charge of sorts?

[indigo nexus]

Smurf accounts

Though that actually answers both cases, it might be fine if it only applied to random teammates as smurfing without partying doesn't work

[indigo nexus]

Cutoff makes no sense, it should scale

[alpine sphinx]

the name doesnt fucking matter, the system is stupid

[candid vessel]

Solo Q is where people leaving tends to happen the most

[indigo nexus]

However, I'm not sure how this would work this into the calculations

[candid vessel]

It is horrendous yh

[candid vessel]

Yh true ig

[indigo nexus]

Perhaps it would have to be:

If a person who is not part of a squad leaves a match, they should be punished, and their teammates should have their effective ranks lowered to whatever degree is determined fair for recalculating the match's outcomes

However, this does mean the numbers shown at the start of the tournament will sometimes be inaccurate

[candid vessel]

Also with the whole smurfing thing, ranked should be locked behind reaching level 50-60

[candid vessel]

Yeah that sounds good

[alpine sphinx]

the problem is not the numbers that are shown, the problem is that your reward of gaining or losing SR is directly tied to it

[indigo nexus]

It's the other way around.

1st and 8th seed can all have identical rewards because they could all have identical RS

[alpine sphinx]

but there are too many random factors that can eliminate skill disparity

[indigo nexus]

eh, sure, but the fix to that is just to have a larger sample size (divide down RS rewards/losses)

[alpine sphinx]

or introduce map based ranking istead of global

there is way too much influence the chosen map has over the outcome with certain playstyles

as well as modifiers, and the current design philosophy that encourages griefing and third partying

[kindred gorge]

That's pretty constant across all games though, which is why there should map vote

[alpine sphinx]

it all makes ranked essentially a throw of the dice with limited player influence

[indigo nexus]

well, that's reducing the sample size so to compensate, RS progression will be massively slowed down

in which case we need to eliminate seasonal ranked resets for sure, but I think in general players may not like taking 10x longer to gain RS

[alpine sphinx]

there needs to be a solution, ranked currently feels like a throw of the dice, even when playing meta, which is the most boring way to play itr

[kindred gorge]

I mean thats just how the game is. part of appeal, you might say

I don't really mind it all that much. It sucks to go on a losing streak but having it be a gamble is very in line with the theme of the game

[sudden pewter]

I hope we get more contestant slots, ideally one for every available spec.

[kindred gorge]

Even just a 9th one would be huge, 3 of each

[alpine sphinx]

i wouldnt mind the gamble part as much if the game wouldnt be catering to one playstyle per class only

[last steeple]

EVEN MORE, I've got 3 dashes build lol

[kindred gorge]

my current breakdown is 3 lights 2 mediums 3 heavies

[sudden pewter]

Why

[last steeple]

Caus Im as toxic as A gold lol player without mic

[indigo nexus]

Slow down RS gain/loss by as much as people tolerate, make H2H the only mode, force it into a symmetrical greybox map designed purely for consistent gameplay, and that would pretty much solve complaints of randomness

but, well, people might not enjoy it that much

[last steeple]

Or just caus I really enjoy to play light and I always try new loadouts with differents weapons, weapons skins, gadgeets skins, and outfits, and always changing is annoying

I also have 3 meds, one grapple light, and one heavy just to have a heavy, and js like everyone I need more

[sudden pewter]

I mainly play Heavy so ofc I use most slots for Heavy.

I’d like more slots to have at least two more Light contestants available as I have to restructure the loadout anytime I’d like to experiment

[indigo nexus]

I only use two slots for each class (melee / ranged)

[last steeple]

Yeah understandable, I don't even have a cloak light, and I'd like to try more heavy builds

[sudden pewter]

That’s fair, I would prefer to have a dedicated loadout for any given spec.

I will be purchasing the alchemy throwable bundle immediately as soon as I’m off shift. I’m also happy to see AlfaActa get a THIRD dummy skin in the game.

[alpine sphinx]

this shit has to fucking stop man

[cerulean furnace]

Havent gotten to the update, heard they fixed Shockwave so I'll try that later. Hows the Goo change? Looks like they didnt understand the actual issue of Goo Gun spam and still nerfed every other use of aggressive goo no?

0.35s still seems kind of much, but Id need to see it in practice. Havent been playing much since the shockwave nerf update

[alpine sphinx]

Goo gun melee is dead. you cant play it anymore since all offensive utility is gone

[sudden pewter]

Embark fully understands the actual issue of Goo Gun spam, which they’ve made very apparent. The ability to fortify areas or avenues of approach with goo remains unchanged.

[cerulean furnace]

Hate that, but they also hate melee so that isn't surprising 😔

Good thing I swapped my Goo Grenade with Explosive Mine on my Dual Blades

[sudden pewter]

You can still block escape routes with goo. You just can’t lock a player down directly with goo as effectively

[cerulean furnace]

Guess I'd need to adapt and play even smarter 🤔

Anything else that's notable? The V9 18 ammo count doesn't seem to matter much if I think about it

[alpine sphinx]

yeah its a fucking tragedy that they nerf a niche you see in 1 out of 50 games, but toxic shit like dash defib and winch remains untouched

sorry not nerf, kill is the better word, since they outright removed it

[cerulean furnace]

Admittedly, I only have a real issue with Winch. Dash is annoying and I would ask for it needing smarter use instead of a panic Q button. Defib is whatever if you actually know how to play against it

[sudden pewter]

Could potentially be relevant when a Light is fighting a Heavy/Med Duo but otherwise isn’t relevant afaik

[alpine sphinx]

defib needs to have its i frames removed, they are unacceptable

[cerulean furnace]

True. Feels like this much ammo was very annoying tho considering they'd just spam it instead of needing to reposition and shoot from an angle that's actually smart

[cerulean furnace]

The I frames that much an issue? I got used to those and just shoot like barely a second later

[alpine sphinx]

they prevent mines from doing damage on revived people, which should be a counter to defi

[cerulean furnace]

No front to u or anyone, but every time I see some complain about Defib, it feels a bit like a skill issue. The gadget is doing what it's supposed to, use it as a safeguard. I never have troubles if an enemy is using it

[sudden pewter]

I-frames wouldn’t be necessary if a patient could decline a revive.

[cerulean furnace]

Yknow what you do have a point, but I wouldn't really say it's something that bad

[alpine sphinx]

and what its supposed to do is way too strong to be a gadget, you are cutting away 5 seconds of inaction which is insanely broken in a game where time matters this much

[cerulean furnace]

I would be fine if I frames are gone, considering the best use is using it in a safe place

[cerulean furnace]

Someone mentioned that the time of inaction should be the same as how long a normal revive takes, just that it's automated and gives the user more time to prepare

Would also incentive to NOT use it out in the open or during a fight

[sudden pewter]

My biggest issue with Defib is the mentally deficient healbots that see a statue and gun for it with their defibs out, completely disregarding the safety of the patient.

There’s a place for such a play when the medium is competent enough to get the revive and then make cover via goo grenade but it’s a rarity in casual settings.

It’s far too easy to get your teamates farmed due to no fault of their own. The patient has no agency in the matter either which displeases me greatly.

[alpine sphinx]

wthe time of inaction i am talking about IS the time you spend reviving, increasing defib res time doesnt change that

if you dont have defi you need to spend 5 seconds standing still doing nothing

[cerulean furnace]

Ehh maybe. It's a very hit or miss gadget

[alpine sphinx]

defib completely removes that entire window, which is why it is so fundamentally broken and will forever stay a mandatory gadget for medium

[alpine sphinx]

it is mandatory, and always has been, dont pretend it doesnt have like a 95% pickrate

[cerulean furnace]

Pick rate doesn't matter if most people don't use it well and get their teammates farmed instead

[alpine sphinx]

thats like saying dash is too weak because idiots use it to get into unwinnable fights that they then cant escape anymore

[cerulean furnace]

In a way that's actually not too far off lol

[alpine sphinx]

okay well then i think you are delusional.

[cerulean furnace]

Seen plenty of Dash users do that, same with Defib

Jeezus thas rude

[alpine sphinx]

yes, but the reason they do that is lack of skill, not the gadget being bad

[alpine sphinx]

its true though, like by that logic giving heavy +50% speed would be a nerf because bad players will use that to seperate from their team and get killed on their own - that is delusional reasoning

[sudden pewter]

Not a single mention of defib sickness made 😔

[cerulean furnace]

I'm not saying the gadget isn't bad, it's very strong I ain't arguing that, I'm only saying that many people use it not effectively, hence it's not as good as many make it out to be, especially with the defib sickness as C4tter mentioned

[alpine sphinx]

a gun more is a gun more, even if defib revived with 1hp it would still be good

[cerulean furnace]

Okay I think ur losing the discussion here tf u saying 😭

[sudden pewter]

thats delusional

I get being frustrated by being unable to effectively counter some setups, it’s very commonplace in lower elo. But this line of thinking is ridiculous .

[cerulean furnace]

There is a hell of a lot to stake here. Hp amount, defib sickness, ammo count and kind of weapon, as well as location and position and other players in the fight

A strong gadget can still become entirely useless either in the novice hands, or thr composition of the team or the situation in any fight

[paper plaza]

Wait are people saying that being revived with half hp and a 5 second cooldown on your stuff is bad and needs to be changed now?

[alpine sphinx]

just because bad players use good things in a way that gets them killed doesnt mean the good thing cant be insanely good

[sudden pewter]

Negatives

• At the mercy of the Medium on whether you’re defibbed safely or in a hotzone.
• No Gadgets/Specs for 5s.
• 50% Health
• Ammo dictated by death state. (Your ammo at time of death is what you revive with)
  Positives
• Medium can do other things as you’re revived. (There’s still a revive animation)
• Patient receives a brief period of invulnerability until any action is taken. (Grace period may or may not reflect the white glow, inconsistent)

[cerulean furnace]

Maybe it should be good idk :p
It's the definitive safeguard for Mediums to use. It's easy to use, but can be exploited quite easily is what im saying. Same with any gadget

For me I already got good enough with it, but want my playstyle not to fuck over teammates, so I use Data Reshaper instead and manually revive. Haven't been in trouble or got the feeling having my defib would have been better

My aggressive playstyle ain't working with Defib, and I counter Defib due to my aggression

[sudden pewter]

Reshaper especially after the recent buff is an amazing gadget.

[cerulean furnace]

Been using it since s3 it's awesome. Barrelmancer type beat

[sudden pewter]

Deleting a Dome from 21(?)m away is so strong.

[alpine sphinx]

The medium not having to spend 5 seconds completely immobilized is such a massive advantage though

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[alpine sphinx]

like an irreplacable level of good

[cerulean furnace]

I'm just thinking the hell the Medium is gonna do. They have nothing kinda

[alpine sphinx]

how the hell does medium have "nothing"

[sudden pewter]

Continue shooting, make cover with goo, prep heal-beam to reset the patient faster

[alpine sphinx]

and just being able to react to incomming threats in general without canceling the revive is so valuable

[sudden pewter]

Mind, that’s intended. It’s the reason the gadget exists. That isn’t OP.

[alpine sphinx]

there is a reason defib has been nerfed like 6 times and its pickrate hasnt even changed slightly

[alpine sphinx]

not OP but fundamentally broken and not something that belongs into the game

[sudden pewter]

Definitely not broken but it seems you’re not here to argue, you’re here to whine.

[alpine sphinx]

no gadget should have mandatory functionality

broken does not mean strong, necessarily

broken means it results in 95% pickrate no matter how muczh it is nerfed

[cerulean furnace]

I did meant my sentence to be a joke but those are good points nonetheless

[cerulean furnace]

Wait.

Tf you mean mandatory functionality. The gadget is supposed to work

[alpine sphinx]

functionality that makes picking it mandatory

[sudden pewter]

Yeah but it’s never going to go that smoothly in game. If I defib a teammate in a gunfight, I’m vulnerable while charging the gadget and vulnerable while approaching the statue. Once my patient has started the revive process I’m still in a gunfight!

[cerulean furnace]

C4tter please help me out here that sentence just killed me

[sudden pewter]

Nah, he’s already made up his mind. Nothing either of us say will remedy that unfortunately 😔

[cerulean furnace]

Thats why I mentioned the best use is taking the statue, run away and reset the teammate properly. Doing it mid fight just puts you into a bad position to die from, and ur teammate ready for harvest

Any gadget is good if you think of how to use it

[sudden pewter]

That’s the ideal use-case for defib, doing it safely instead of in a hotzone is always preferable because it’s safer for both you and the patient.

[cerulean furnace]

Also mentioning how not using defib forces u to stay with the revived teammate, which is better than running off alone for either u to die, or the defibbed person to die immediately cuz an enemy sneaked in

Happened more often than not... 😔

[sudden pewter]

Much of the frustration with defib comes from misplays (imo). If I chase a Medium carrying a statue to safety but can’t confirm the kill fast enough, that fight is going to become a 1v2 really quick. Depending on what weapon I’m using(and my accuracy with it) I may not have enough ammo to kill the freshly defibbed guy.

Rather than blame the defib, that’s on me. I could have killed the medium then retreated to reevaluate, or I could have waited for my team to group up and wipe together, maybe I could have used a utility to stall the revive.

[alpine sphinx]

because you dont have any arguments that refute anything i say man 😭
Defib has a pickrate that is damn near 100% (in ranked, other modes too) and it has already been nerfed many times, this means that there is something that fundamentally makes it extremely good no matter how hard it is nerfed - its core mechanic makes it so strong

[sudden pewter]

It’s not broken fundamentally, it’s well within the games design, and it makes perfect sense the support specialist has exclusive access to it.

[cerulean furnace]

We should give everyone a defib sure why not

Fair and balanced

[sudden pewter]

All gadgets should be universal, surely this will result in a level playing field and not Light hell.

[alpine sphinx]

yes it literally is, there is not a single thing that should have such a consistently high pickrate for almost 3 years in a game like this

[cerulean furnace]

Bro imma be real I think ur too stuck on pickrates and percentages that ultimately don't mean anything

[stoic garden]

everyone will run some combination of dome, h+ and gateway

[cerulean furnace]

I did had the idea for a ltm where everyone gets to be a Medium with access to EVERYTHING.
Purely for the fun of it

[alpine sphinx]

how do they not mean anything??? The mechanic is fundamentally too strong, it enables plays that shouldnt be possible and has virtually no skill floor

[sudden pewter]

I expected RPG to be in there too

[stoic garden]

utility>damage

[old pulsar]

Has anyone else noticed that the "snap cycle" reloads for the revolver are just completely missing? I logged on to purchase them, but they're just missing all together. Are the possibly getting reworked? Or is it like a shop rotation thing, since the shop is pretty small after this last update?

[sudden pewter]

They only matter for Defib because RPG, C4, and Dome have been the staple Heavy Meta since time immemorial but they don’t break the game for whatever reason.

[sudden pewter]

My bad, snap cycle is a store animation under the animation category. If it isn’t showing in the store it’s still available via the equipment menu.

[stoic garden]

the products are always there, just check revolver animations in the equipment tab, you'll find them there

[cerulean furnace]

Man I liked u but this is very short sighted and biased from you. "Enables play that shouldn't be possible" well its designed to be in the game so you can't say it shouldn't be possible

[alpine sphinx]

There has never been a point where defib wasn't meta, and you guys seriously mean to tell me that there is no issue with it? And meta as in 100% pick rate in high elo, not 50 or 60 or anything

[stoic garden]

oh wait...

[sudden pewter]

Nah, the bone one is BP. Snap Cycle is the holo reload

[alpine sphinx]

That is a fallacy, appealing to "it's in the game therefore it should be there" can be used to defend a button that instantly makes you win too, if it's put in the game

[old pulsar]

I just checked in the customization menu and the shop, the bundle for it is just completely gone for me. Even the similar style variants for the BFR.

[stoic garden]

snap cycle is for bfr no?

people gotta stop calling bfr revolver omg

[old pulsar]

No, there's snap cycle for both the 357 and the BFR

[swift agate]

the R .357 which is chambered of course in .44 magnum

[sudden pewter]

I’m only familiar with the .357 (Revolver) animation. But I do know there’s a BFR animation where you snap and the bullets appear in the weapon

[stoic garden]

pretty sure there's a different name for the revolver one

but idk

[sudden pewter]

BFR animation is from S9 BP. (iirc)
Revolver is available in the store via a bundle.

S9 BP isn’t currently available as it’s too recent.

[swift agate]

my game is updating rn so i cant check, but it might be called 'swap cycle' or something similar for the revolver

i could be very wrong though

[unkempt moss]

Deagle buffs, good or nah?

[sudden pewter]

Fantastic! S tier changes

[old pulsar]

Ive seen it for purchase before, but it just isnt appearing anywhere for me atm. I'll check again later. I appreciate the replies.

[unkempt moss]

The hipfire doesnt feel like ass now?

[sudden pewter]

Essentially the max spread has been diminished, and the Hipfire is tighter as a baseline.

I would personally feel safe hipfiring up to 10m (depending on my tempo) but ADS will still reign supreme.

[stoic garden]

me when i get unmuted early (thank you mods)

[unkempt moss]

That might be enough to bring daddy home for a bit

[stoic garden]

anyway, bfr anim is in the shop, i know it, i've seen it, wiki also says it

[sudden pewter]

Im very excited to try the improved Akimbo’s in PB. Been trying melee there for the first time ever and been having a blast.

I’m hoping the new MELVIN cosmetics go well with the Crown Control Unit as we still don’t have any medieval armor with brushed metal textures or red accents

Embark if you’re watching please god just give me the BP 96 armor but retextured to have red or even black accent cloth and brushed metal. That asymmetric blue ribbon on the left arm is an amazing detail and would look so nice in red.

AlfaActa sponsored this season and the only goodies they got in the BP was a bonus page 😔
At least the MULTI-Device looks absolutely killer and the Barricade skin is chefs kiss 💋

[swift agate]

nope, it's still called Snap Cycle on the revolver

[sudden pewter]

300MB if I recall correctly

[alpine apex]

Speaking of daddy…

Hi @sudden pewter 🥰

I’m back!

[sudden pewter]

I don’t even remember you my sweet little yellow role 😭

[alpine apex]

https://tenor.com/view/your-sidekick-has-arrived-nimona-chloë-grace-moretz-nimona-movie-your-companion-is-here-gif-10784122777774542220

[sudden pewter]

There’s so many of your kind I can’t keep track

[alpine apex]

Now do you remember???

The embed fail henchman?

[sudden pewter]

I don’t even have any notes on you, I vaguely recall a weapon balance discussion?

[alpine apex]

You do remember! 🥹🥹🥹

Listen up everybody. From now on @sudden pewter is a made man.

Anyone who has anything different to say, Nick and T-Dawg will fcking cut you!

[sudden pewter]

I don’t associate with Dawgs.

[alpine apex]

It’s a movie reference. Anyone who knows that obscure reference is goated

[unkempt moss]

Unreal glaze from this guy and you dont even remember him?

[sudden pewter]

My gamer aura (normies call it body odor) has enraptured yet another individual.

It’s hard being so virile and correct all the time.

[viscid carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/reddit-redditor-upvote-updoot-soyjak-gif-5231509822265012163

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1393085421482672138/speechmemified_pasteimage.gif

[alpine apex]

In my era we don’t use the word glaze. More like…

Awwww c'mon now dogg, you know I'm just fucking with you. You know I give you the mad phat superfly stupid dope dumbass bomb shit props.

[unkempt moss]

Yeah this is definitely one of your guys.

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-12450451651611168773

I only collect goth healsluts and emasculated femboys to serve as my mournival of eunuchs.

[unkempt moss]

Now if he was trying to add some weird change to a known norm of the game and pissing off the embark shills. Thats how you know its one of my people.

[sudden pewter]

Yeah guys, the goo stun that’s been in the game for two years was unintentional and we’re bugfixing it.

[unkempt moss]

That was a big oops by them

[wooden rock]

https://discord.com/channels/1008696016318513243/1502011599265730610

[sudden pewter]

God not this shit again

[cerulean furnace]

Oh boy

[unkempt moss]

This guy gets it

.35s seems perfectly usable still. It may actually be easier to goolock people now that the cadence is faster.

[tardy light]

but if someone is further away you need to spend more time gooing and less time sprinting

this makes it nearly impossible for a melee goo to catch up to an enemy without spending 2 business days walking and gooing

doesnt really affect goo stall for goo + gun, i agree
but goo melee suffering

[unkempt moss]

Oh i rarely play goo melee.

[tardy light]

me neither, i just sympathize for the goo melee players

[unkempt moss]

Do you guys always go for lock and not for more efficient pursuit tech? Thats probably more your problem than anything.

[tardy light]

unless there is a convenient door you see them trying to enter, i think lock is the most efficient pursuit tech for goo melee

Well, maybe not anymore lmao

[unkempt moss]

I see. So people really were as dependant on lock as I was told. I stand corrected.

[tardy light]

Yes, it was the crux of goo melee playstyle for most

[unkempt moss]

Thats sad.

[tardy light]

Maybe there is more efficient pursuit as u say idk. I’d rather just swap to winch atp

[sudden pewter]

“Goo Gun is dead because I can’t stun people with it anymore, and I exclusively use it for that purpose alone. Regardless of its ability to get me into weird places by placing Goo wherever I want.”

[tardy light]

But again, I don’t really even play goo melee, and neither do u, so this is double speculation

Cool str4wman

[sudden pewter]

lol. lmao even

[unkempt moss]

Its not even just the movement. GooCourse, GooBlock, GooBump. Theres so much available.

[sudden pewter]

Yeah but it can’t stun people anymore so it’s obsolete.

[unkempt moss]

By dont really play I mean I probably still have dozens of hours more than the average player on goomelee

[unkempt moss]

Tis true

[sudden pewter]

This isn’t accurate, it can still stun/slow but requires more commitment and isn’t anywhere near as brainlessly easy as it was before.

It’s gone from an 18s stun to a 6s if I mathed right, with much more room for fucking it up.

[unkempt moss]

If they make hit reg better GooLock will be just as broken as before.

[sudden pewter]

I get being frustrated with Embarks decision to bugfix what’s been considered an intended use of the GooGun for over two years (largely due to embarks lack of addressing it) but to say the spec is dead, or obsolete shows how truly uncreative the players crutching on it were.

[unkempt moss]

6s of stun in real play for me is probably more like 10s since you dont maintain a constant lock and they usually give up halfway through the full torment lock.

Realistically its probably mostly unchanged

[sudden pewter]

Definitely changed, the tempo to ensure a constant lock is faster. Hopefully the faster breaks will give victims some time to counterplay.

[unkempt moss]

I really dont think it will. And like I was saying if you're maintaining a constant lock youre probably not locking efficiently. It'll probably affect the ability to weave shots between locks more if I had to assume.

But i haven't touched it yet so who knows

[indigo nexus]

It can, it’s just not as powerful while doing so

[unkempt moss]

He's being facetious

[indigo nexus]

But yeah, goo stun being so good was very important for melee, specifically against lights. I don’t anticipate I’ll feel it that much for mediums or heavies.

A good dash light is untouchable to spear in a lot of fights with anything less than perfect goo use as-was, so that’ll be a real pain now

Also needed to catch people out in the open, while that’s not strictly necessary I don’t have a coordinated team to play with so that’s a big deal for melee

At it stands it’s rare that my teammates are cognisant of my limitations and will expect me to support them effectively in their combat zones of choice

Guess I’ve got a good example of what I mean by that in this fun clip, I knew fighting the enemies in their open position was suicide so I tried to hang back but my light teammate went right in and my medium teammate… well, I didn’t expect them to stay in the team’s line of fire like that

[tardy light]

There is something kind of cool that is effectively impossible now. If you didn’t mess up, you could effectively goo lock two people at once, now you simply can’t. But honestly, that’s part of the cheese of goo lock that might be better off removed anyways.

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, I’m fine with absurd degrees of stalling no longer being doable

[tardy light]

While that seems like silly tech, it is actually kind of crazy to allow last second steals when your team’s only option is to ape it

[warped flicker]

hear me out, this may be a niche suggestion.. I think the Heavy should be given an Anti-Material Sniper Rifle that works basically like a long range KS. this would allow for the heavy to be able to play further out in range despite their class being the charge n barge type. It could give some long range tactics more viability for a team wanting to play all snipers n such.. idk i just thought this would be cool. Lmk what you guys think?

[stoic garden]

bfr exists, if you wanna destroy walls settle on ks cuz that's the most ur getting

[sudden pewter]

Yet another heavy sniper suggestion, how tiresome

[tardy light]

Compromise. replace BFR rounds with anti tank shells

[kindred gorge]

KS-23 is an AMR disguised as a shotgun

[unkempt moss]

This isn't the channel to talk about weapons and gadgets, bud. Take a hike.

[eager wasp]

no offense, awful idea, the idea of heavy having any type of long range is awful, bfr WAS awful, a sniper? no thank you

[sudden pewter]

This is not at all a niche suggestion and very commonly brought up by players with a surface level enjoyment of the game.
Giving Heavy such range is antithetical to archetype balance as by design only Light is intended to thrive in such extremes.

#💣┇weapons-gadgets message

Associated conversation. It’s been discussed to death and if you’re truly interested in feedback please read before we need to explain it for the upteenth time.

[unkempt moss]

What else is there to talk about?

[sudden pewter]

Doom Posting about the melee rework, Embark being dishonest with us regarding what they publicly say drives certain changes, lack of transparency and communication, the state of the MGL/Barricade/Thermal rework. Idk 🤷‍♂️

[unkempt moss]

If anything has been talked to death its that.

[eager wasp]

the state of dagger

[unkempt moss]

Let the boy cook for our entertainment. Just grill his ass about his idea so its no longer surface level.

[kindred gorge]

how not every weapon needs to be hitscan

[unkempt moss]

Thats definitely been talked to death. Partially by myself.

[kindred gorge]

The garbage ideas for an april fools gamemode thread was fun

[unkempt moss]

I think theres a way to give heavy a sniper without it hurting feelings.

We just have to figure it out

[kindred gorge]

bfr lowkey was a sniper and still kinda is, the biggest thing that made it so opressive was winch

[unkempt moss]

Best way to do it is to make it terrible so it never catches the ire of the EDF

[kindred gorge]

if everything sucks nothing will

[unkempt moss]

Thats kinda the route we seem to be aiming at.

[kindred gorge]

unfortunately. The end state is either sub second ttks become a thing of the past or some things will continue to dominate the meta cause Embark can't nerf it right that low to the ground

You can guess which one is more likely

Everything we are experiencing is symptoms of an experimental title, not only in the sense that its Embark's first child but also cause it dares to do a lot of things other shooters won't, trying to take its wackiness and turn it into a balanced competitive level game

Like the game has been a balancing nightmare from its first inception and now having a bunch of cod babies yapping in your ear makes it even more high pressure

[unkempt moss]

Is 2.0 doubling down on archetypes or releasing us from that mind prison?

What have they said about it.

I know theyre not giving up on esports.

[kindred gorge]

Too much money in it

It's crazy how something can be a train wreck, a cash cow, and still one of the better shooters on the market these days

Kind of a testament to the state of the industry

the next big leak is going to be that a png of a cantelope is holding the entire code together

[sudden pewter]

Not every weapon needs to be hitscan, but projectile weapons suffer due to console players existing. M&K can use them no problem but console players tend not to use them as effectively due to the nature of the input method. It’s why the Chimera is hitscan.

[sudden pewter]

I don’t think there’s any way we can make a sniper viable in a frontline role (Heavy) without making it incredibly overtuned or incredibly underpowered.

[sudden pewter]

We have no information (yet). All we know is that it’s the soft relaunch of the game and Embark will share more info closer to release.

[unkempt moss]

Soft means a decent sized balance patch in embark terms, I think.

[slow linden]

The only thing I can benefit off goo stun with anymore is flamethrower,and I had to reverse my combos to do so

[unkempt moss]

If we weren't working in the idea of heavy only having the one role on a team, how would we do it.

[slow linden]

0.4 would have been acceptable

[last steeple]

is this great aim ? x)

[tardy light]

Im sorry

[slow linden]

Gng had high ground and missed everything 😭

[last steeple]

smartest cl40 user

[last steeple]

I promised me Ill play revolver till Im a god with it, it takes time

[sudden pewter]

I wouldn’t be so optimistic after the ReSpec test. We still don’t have an official word on what Embark took away from the experiment.

[sudden pewter]

Given Heavies defensive utilities, it would have to be some sort of high burst but short range option. This is a niche the KS23 nearly fits into. (It’s fickle in CQC, thrives at midrange, and can be used at long ranges but loses most of its damage)

[slow linden]

It does,may I recommend the plundersteel revolver? The one your using is said to be pay to lose and I just generally really like plundersteels sights

[stoic garden]

how many times will you repost this clip

[last steeple]

oh I love it so idk

[sudden pewter]

That fuckass crosshair 😭

[last steeple]

I bought it and since then I keep playing revolver

[sudden pewter]

Also the irons on the AlfaActa Revolver are quite nice, white accents which help it stick out against busy backdrops

[slow linden]

I like it too but apparently it makes revolver even harder to play 😭

[slow linden]

I haven't got the chance to use it yet but I will

[last steeple]

and IIm not rich 800 mb was already too much 🤣

[sudden pewter]

Love the new revolver skin.

[last steeple]

who said thatttt

[last steeple]

yeah its nice

[junior dew]

Has anyone playing today gone up against the xp54? This thing is hitting unreasonably hard for no reason

[slow linden]

Multiple people,can't put down names,don't remember

Look up most pay to lose skin in the finals or something

[sudden pewter]

Sanguine (prominent medium main) said the skin was pay to lose

[slow linden]

Ah,there we are

[last steeple]

oh sanguine isnt a tiny player

WELL IDC IM GONNA PROOVE EM WRONG AND BE THE ABSOLUTE GOAT

[sudden pewter]

In the C4TPatch all irons have little glowy bits at the end, and they correspond with your reticle color

[slow linden]

Play what you love,I was merely warning you of the cost

[last steeple]

nice one embark

[last steeple]

IS THIS TUUFFF OR NAH ?

[tardy light]

pretty tuff, couldve used a spin

@chilly granite have you played the new ltm? it has 5 pre-set loadouts and one of them is grapple bow

[chilly granite]

havent' yet

done lot chores today feeling bad lol

[tardy light]

awe feel better

[last steeple]

Im not used to aurafarm

maybe I should have done an emote

[slow linden]

The sledge and crossbow and riot loadouts are cool,the rest are ass

[tardy light]

bow loadout is nice

[slow linden]

True but I don't play bow because it's too hard for me