💣┇weapons-gadgets

[sudden pewter]

Meta will always be a thing, it’s the nature of the beast. But what if they had fun unique gamemodes or LTM’s for events? Something that really showcases the gameshow aspect of the game when they’re showing the game to a wider audience?

What if in the middle of an event they take a sponsored break to play Heavy Hitters or some shit.

A break from the monotony? Unheard of!

[faint flower]

"THE CHARGE AND SLAM FROM RUBYLABUBU‼️" 🗣️🗣️ 🗣️ 🔥🔥🔥

[copper pollen]

anyone got these infamous rubylabubu sledge hammer clips, I missed the TGM and surprisingly theres no clips of him

[glossy sun]

Imagine a LTG where your team are Light and you Have to Run through an Obstacle course while Also trying to Stop your Opponent with Gadgets that is Balanced to that game mode further more to test Certain Things.

Way Better than Making changes outright and force it upon us like Cash out now...

[indigo nexus]

they do market the game

they run adverts, make trailers, sponsor content creators, and do social media stuff

oh, and they use arc raiders to market it too

[hazy hemlock]

Im partial to the WT event they used to run where kill points were dictated by how popular your weapon was. Less popular got you more money for a kill

[stoic garden]

VC CREATION NO LONGER REQUIRES LEVELS, WE'RE FREE FROM XP FARMERS

[forest birch]

I have a genuine question to the embark team but I severely doubt I'll get a response but, is it out of the question to get a buster / dragonslayer sword model for the hammer? They are swords that are known to be so large that they are more like slabs of metal especially the Dragonslayer, but I wonder if the team would ever do it because if the heavy ever gets a sword it would be too hard to tell the difference? Or maybe it's because it changes the silhouette too much?

[sudden pewter]

Mythic skins exist, so while it isn’t out of the question I don’t personally believe it’s very likely. If you want an actual response from the devs you’ll need to either post in #👂┇game-feedback , ask in the Reddit AMA, or make a ticket.

[glossy sun]

I'm still shocked there's no Micro missile Launcher.

[alpine sphinx]

I also think this should be a thing in ranked. It would easily be the best way to promote a far wider weapon usage and promote gameplay variety.

[lapis meadow]

The finals needs a cannon.

[hazy hemlock]

Best ypu gonna get is cannon skins this season fam

[glossy sun]

Like a Real Cannon or a Rocket launcher that isn't RPG

Like

I was Really Upset then they added a Cannon like Skin to the minigun

[compact tundra]

I'm telling you mortar light was the best idea I've heard on this server since dual flare guns

[glossy sun]

Light still don't need it...

[compact tundra]

They do tho

It's a slow fire rate long range weapon, it's built for light

[alpine sphinx]

playing m11 is actually fatherless behaviour

[sturdy shoal]

Frag grenade is underrated

[lapis meadow]

it'd be better for medium

[compact tundra]

Na it's slow and long ranged, medium would have trouble keeping the distance required to use it and already has CL-40, this would just be a worse CL-40 on medium cause it requires way more set up then the CL-40

[glossy sun]

Sniper*

[lapis meadow]

So keep giving light every long ranged option
is what you're boiling it down to...

[glossy sun]

Man I can't Wait to get Hands to be a melee for Heavy

[lapis meadow]

Don't you think they already have enough?

[glossy sun]

Better have a Grab and And then Wipe the Floor with said lights

[compact tundra]

That's how the specific build balance works yes. Light has high mobility but a small health pool, they have the movement to make these long range weapons work while being easy to kill once caught out. It's why light has the biggest variety of long range options while someone like heavy has essentially none

[sturdy shoal]

WHATT

[candid vessel]

So real. I did a tad this week for respec order because ur basically cooked if u dont

Ranked system working well 👍

[candid vessel]

Problem is that they made it so easily dodge-able for some reason

[sudden pewter]

You will be decorticated

[sturdy shoal]

Nah I rather say that the blast radius is too small than being dodge-able cuz I have gotten many kills with frag grenade especially when they stealing cash out or chasing me

[candid vessel]

Its good for dropping at ur feet when being chased tbf ive also gotten kills/won fights from that

[compact tundra]

You can't run from the truth, light deserves a GL and this is peak creative goofy weapon design

[candid vessel]

Part of me wishes light had a spec that calls in an airstrike or something, but most of me knows that thats too goofy/hard to balance

[compact tundra]

With the handheld mortar you can have that as a weapon

[sturdy shoal]

🧐

[sudden pewter]

It’s peak ass and would be awful. You know this, don’t run from the horrible truth

[sturdy shoal]

Ain’t that something

[compact tundra]

No no it would be peak greatness. When you fire the projectile actually just shoots down from the sky with probably a .6-1.0 seconds delay between when you fire and when it lands, it'd deal 145 damage on direct and have a high destruction damage, probably 2 shots to break a wall. Reloads every shot with a .2-.4 second reload speed making a total of (with the lowest 1.0 second delay between each shot at the lowest presented and 1.4 seconds at the highest presented.

Or we could have it fire from the weapon which wouldn't make hit time delays longer depending on how far they are but I like this less cause it makes closer ranged shots less intuitive

[sudden pewter]

This is all the issues of the MGL and then some. Disavowed. Vetoed. Voted off the island. Sent to Brazil.

[sturdy shoal]

Huh

[compact tundra]

Na it's different cause it's not a bounce mechanic rather a gun that relies on safe positioning and predicting movement

Similar but different

[sudden pewter]

Blood Eagled. Keelhauled. Death by firing squad.

[sturdy shoal]

Hmmm okay

[compact tundra]

I can see it now bro, tracking dart mortar plays

[sudden pewter]

Doodoo Feces in my WEPnGAJ 😔

[sturdy shoal]

What

[sudden pewter]

@compact tundra did you see my full S

[compact tundra]

Oh shit

Hell yea you hit the full S brother

[sturdy shoal]

Congrats

[sudden pewter]

You’d think they’d have done something other than “Phenomenal”

“Like Scotty” or smt

I think it’s bugged because I won that game but it says defeated

[candid vessel]

Niiiiice

Closest ive ever come is 5 S and a D 😭😭😭

[sudden pewter]

Double Ass too

[candid vessel]

Hell yeah

[analog pewter]

double flare gun is a much better idea (because it is my idea)

though embark would somehow manage to make the flare gun a fucking hitscan weapon

[sturdy shoal]

Maybe it’s okay to have teammates that provide no support

[analog pewter]

why is your game flickering

[fair pecan]

soooo when are we gonna get thermal vision back?

[analog pewter]

seizure inducing gameplay footage

[sturdy shoal]

Medal tv watermark. I’m not paying for premium lol

[versed finch]

season 429103

[fair pecan]

as a sniper it's really useful

[glossy sun]

No grenade launcher for Light

[candid vessel]

Never

We’ll get it when they nerf the m11 atp

[eager wasp]

never, getting a complete rework

[sudden pewter]

Correct.

You couldn’t tell when thermal vision was being used. It was unintuitive to fight against for this reason. Completely negated smokes, which was its main reason for existing admittedly but it facilitated an awful combo that was aids to fight against. Its rework will likely involve some form of counterplay and be unrecognizable from what it was.

When is thermal coming back?
Never. But you’ll get something new in its place!

[candid vessel]

Zipline S+ tier gadget 100% confirmed

Big jump pad been real quite since this

[hazy hemlock]

I had all S and an Atwice in a row. I went 18 4 and they gave me A on kdr i was so irritated

[candid vessel]

How tf is a 4.5 KD an A rank

[hazy hemlock]

Dog who tf you asking. I was like an A?!?!?!?!?

[abstract kestrel]

All the weapons and gadgets are more fun to use when you're playing Head 2 Head

[kindred gorge]

When I’m in a 0 personality contest and my opponent is someone who spam’s messages that no dev will ever read

[plucky flax]

Any tips using the spear in terms of positioning, like where should I be during a cashout defense

[pastel vault]

My friend plays above, drop using the spin, usually works.. or drop it onto yourself and spin.. but the spear isnt.... great... so watch out

[ancient badge]

overhead

[indigo nexus]

This is too situational, but being overhead is good where possible

What you really need to be doing is making yourself a hard-to-kill target nearby your teammates, in a place where they can’t attack the cashout without you posing a huge threat

[slow linden]

Protein tubes

[stoic garden]

tbags
uses vanish bomb and sonar grenade for no reason
aims with a shotgun

it's over

also defib invincibility is not that long, u def coulda killed the rezzed guy if u waited a little less

lol wiki doesnt say how long

[alpine sphinx]

its a joke it even has any invincibility, especially since you get time looking at your surroundings before actually spawning in

[gaunt thicket]

Guys what is the difference Between all those "sights" you can buy? Which one is the best. Especially for a beginner?

[arctic agate]

The holo sight is the most common one that you'd see in every game but idk recommend those for ars and any smgs should get the reflex sight

[craggy plume]

0.75s
I found it in the history section of the defib in the wiki

[muted condor]

Really nothing just use which ever you like better

[gaunt thicket]

So there are no different zooms? Just aesthetic?

[last steeple]

There is

But you should just try what suits you best

[cerulean furnace]

Personally I like using Compact Reflector or Adder Reflex, tho most of my guns also just use regular Ironsighty. Personally not a fan of Holosights, something about the ring makes me lose focus

[muted condor]

A small amount but it doesn’t make much of a difference imo

[last steeple]

Depends on the weapon too, between iron sight pike and base pike there's z big difference

[ionic pivot]

Any gravity vortex tech? 👀

[peak fjord]

We need medieval throwing daggers and a pair of throwing bones for the throwing knives this halloween.

[last steeple]

It's not really a tech but I saw a load out with gas nade and smoke nade (to prevent fire from burning gas) that actually worked rlly well

[kindred gorge]

mostly antitheft plays, but with good timing you can catch people jumping across the void with it and drop them to their death

[ionic pivot]

Ahh yeye, used to do tht in season 9

[kindred gorge]

I'd have to find the clip again, but the guy launched with the a jumppad and activated it as it was near where the enemy would come through

[ionic pivot]

Sounds pretty interesting.
I tried smthin like tht but it didnt active in time

Wud be nice to see it work

[kindred gorge]

Beyond that though I would imagine that it could have some niche utility for a melee build or with a long range build you could place it on an opened cashout to prevent someone from running off with it

[ionic pivot]

I see what ur saying, plant a vortex on the box. Let someone take it, then activate it

[kindred gorge]

Honestly that would be funny, having a double or triple melee comp and using vortex to turn the enemy into a piñata

[kindred gorge]

If it works that way, if I recall though someone picking it up while it’s attached to the box would disarm it. So you’d have to be watching the box so as to activate it before it gets grabbed

[ionic pivot]

Oh ye, right. Sad :c

[kindred gorge]

Or alternatively you let them carry it on the box so that when they start the cashout you already have your vortex on it, not sure how useful that is

It’s a good tech for breach charge and c4

[ionic pivot]

I did find smthin with breach charge.

If u put down a vortex and put 3 charges ontop. On activation the charges become lose and go to the middle.
If u throw a nade in it aswell u can 1 shot a heavy

[hushed crown]

would it be crazy to say i think vortex is the worst gadget in the game

[floral wigeon]

counting or not counting pyro grenade

[alpine apex]

I’ve seen cool clips with it. But if you aren’t counting all of the universal gadgets…. Maybe!

[hushed crown]

i mean at least pyro nade is consistent
in my experience of playing with and against vortex, it barely ever can pull the cashout without also grabbing the person stealing & it's very easy to see

it kind of reminds me of lockbolt on release, being so easy to escape

[hushed crown]

i've never seen a vortex clip so maybe i just have yet to see it's full potential.!

[alpine apex]

They are all over. Search bar in your favorite short form content platform. 👍

[compact tundra]

I got you, here's me getting diffed and combo'd by my buddy

[hushed crown]

oh that's cool, i had no idea it had such a short arming time

[sudden pewter]

Bank It 🤢

[slim jay]

Recently created some new tech for heavy. This tech relies primarily on the explosive mine and C4, but barricades are also used for one of the uses I came up with. Please keep in mind that I do not main heavy. I just came up with this design last night, so it is far from optimized. I have no idea why the last method (the mobile mine) does less damage, my best guess is that the object it is on absorbs the damage. Maybe try it with more destructible objects like trashcans. I hope you enjoy and get to use this in your games! https://youtu.be/sfGpEgX8dTY

[versed finch]

Season 12 better rework winch

It makes the nullifier worthless because by the time you can use it, you're dead

[broken mulch]

season 12?

we already giving up on 11?

[muted condor]

Buddy I’ll be happy if we get a meaningful change by season 15

[stoic garden]

decided to try light again today

xp54 cloak got me fucked up, i love that shit 🔥

they both got the slightest buff but feel quite nice

for the record I'm not playing on cashout

[pallid sluice]

embark had to nerf moving explosives because in s1 people would make snukes that can wipe teams with 3 mines and an explosive barrel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9XwLlJSD6o

[tardy light]

nah itll be like windows or iphones and skip one. the roadmap is bait

[candid vessel]

Yes they’re too busy fucking up melee for that

Id have faith in them if theyd made a single good balance change in like the past 3-4 seasons, outside of nerfing stuff they overbuffed like the repeater.

And didn’t do stupid shit like respec order

[candid vessel]

Because its a waste of time to run this test without major gear tuning, and even then its still overall a terrible idea

[kindred gorge]

I truly despise shak winch

[alpine apex]

Eww cloak 😂 🫥

How that XP feelin though? Haven’t given it a go yet

[alpine apex]

And it despises you.

Also if you read it really fast it looks like an un-autocorrected sandwich

Now I’m hungry… 🥪

[slow linden]

Yes

[slow linden]

Shak is a weapon I otherwise adore,winchclaw is very bad for heavy,fuck winchclaw

[floral wigeon]

ive never seen a real person defend winch

[acoustic vale]

Not new tech. Dont need a barricade for first one, if they walk ovee it they r dead. Putting mines on carriables does less damage as it was a counter measure to stop "nukes", where mines and c4 was placed on barrels and could get instant team wipes, which was busted, so any explosives plaxed on a carriable do considerably less damage, and cant be thrown very far

[slow linden]

Many fools do

[frigid imp]

what gun is best on light?

[slow linden]

Xp54

[acoustic vale]

No

[frigid imp]

whats best on light rn?

[slow linden]

Yes

[frigid imp]

what gun is best for light?

[acoustic vale]

Its a "it depends" question. Lh1 and arn are very strong long range. 93r is very very good atm, so are xp and m11

[slow linden]

They literally just buffed it and it's great

[acoustic vale]

As a ruby light, no. Its great, it cant be blanketed as the best tho

[slow linden]

Forgot about arn,the only overtuned gun on light

[acoustic vale]

LOL no

[slow linden]

It's also boring too,I can't in good faith call a weapon good if it puts me to sleep using it for 10 minutes

[acoustic vale]

Imo not boring, its just a long range weapon. 93r is probably better than arn right now but it isnt going to out-beam arn at long ranges >70m

[slow linden]

Arn very boring,too simple,is just m60 but on light

[acoustic vale]

😭

[slow linden]

M60 very boring,so arn also boring

[acoustic vale]

Balright. Boring is subjective

[slow linden]

Sure,I'm sure there are people that find dagger or minigun boring,they're entitled to their subjective opinion sure,they're wrong though

[acoustic vale]

Baaaalright. I mean, as the guy with more experience on arn i feel like my opinion that its not boring is more grounded in experience

[slow linden]

I can beam with it,I like the xp54 more though

It feels too similar to m60,and I don't like using m60

[acoustic vale]

Ok bro, u can not like it lmao

[slow linden]

It's too safe of an option for me to enjoy

[acoustic vale]

Aight

[last steeple]

No

[slow linden]

It's the easiest and most versatile option on light

[last steeple]

I didn't backread anything so I don't know if you noticed your mistake but it's not

[slow linden]

There are no bad comps to play xp54 into

[last steeple]

Easiest yes, it is versatile, but a lots of weapons are better the better you are

[acoustic vale]

Xp is v good

Close to m11 damage with more range, less ammo

[slow linden]

Arn is too boring and safe,I know the arn is technically better,I cannot recommend a product that I am not satisfied with

[slow linden]

M11 can shred at range too

[acoustic vale]

Yes im aware, i have very good recoil control, but shred is a steong word and xp is more consistent tracking at range

[slow linden]

Like if we're ranking best light guns it'd probably be arn,lh1,xp54,m11,93r,and v9s,but i just don't want to recommend the arn,I will recommend any of the other top weapons on light though

[acoustic vale]

V9s is the best

Lowest ttk, and still very very good range, and a really fast reload

[slow linden]

Yea,that's why it's in the top 5,anything in the top 5 can just be picked up and played

[slow linden]

Eh,any of the top 5 weapons on any given class are fairly interchangeable

Except medium,for them it's more like the top 3

[icy egret]

5 S's and a B for K:D

Was running Akimbos until the last point.

[last steeple]

It is good but not not tier

[sharp wasp]

was it ever possible to place barricades on walls? im not sure if i remember correctly but i feel like when i played during season 7 for a short time that was possible

or am I delulu

[last steeple]

I'd say xp is not top 5 tbh, like lh1, Arn, M11, v9s, and buffed 93r are above, and then there's weapons like matter, xp and all that are just a bit worse

[slow linden]

To each their own,I'd like to see you pick something to put in it's place if you think better top 5

[viscid carbon]

Yes bro XP is totally mid, keep the buffs coming for my fav gun on light lol

May as well buff the reload speed atp

[last steeple]

Wdym ? (Mb English isn't my first language and idk the sentence seems weird to me)

[slow linden]

You say xp54 isn't top 5,tell me what you think is in top 5 instead

[last steeple]

I js did

They all perform better if you know what you are doing, being able to perform the same in every situation doesn't make the xp better caus if you know what you are doing you'll always be in the situations that advantage you(close range for M11, long for Arn lh1, etc..)

[random depot]

I honestly think nerfing m11 clip size would do wonders for XP usage

[viscid carbon]

Probably

M11 has both higher capacity and a much faster reload

[random depot]

M11 could be dropped to 36 bullets and be completely fine

[viscid carbon]

I'd rather they nerf the reload speed

It just doesn't punish you at all if you run dry lol

[last steeple]

Idk the values but couldn't it mess up damages par mags against heavies ?

[viscid carbon]

Same for the V9S

V9S could probably be dropped down to 15/16 bullets and nobody would notice or care tbh

The reload is so ridiculously fast that it's basically like having a bottomless mag

[narrow bane]

93R is only exceptional at light deletion (overpowered)

it’s mid vs heavy and medium

[last steeple]

Yah true but not mid, it's still good, but yeah maybe 93r doesn't belong in the top 5

Anyways my point stays the same, xp is good but not meta

[narrow bane]

no it is especially mid vs heavies

it truly is the light deleter of all

[slow linden]

All of those are in my top 5 already,you didn't give a substantial swap for xp54,it's a top 5,not a top 4

[last steeple]

I did since I included 93r, but if you don't agree and think xp is top 5 and 93r is worse, it doesn't change the fact that theres a gap between the top 4 weapons and xp since as I said, xp's versatility is not that big of an advantage (#💣┇weapons-gadgets message)

But as long as you play the meta loadout you can perform well with almost any weapon even in sweaty lobbies and xp is far from bad, so you could argue that you can switch every top 4 weapon for another one (like for example M11 for matter is not that big of a difference)

[slow linden]

93r was already in my list

[last steeple]

I gave 5 weapons for the top 5 🧍‍♂️ where xp is the worse from the top 5 and the swap for xp which is not in my top 5

But wether it is or not won't change any of my other points

[slow linden]

Eh,it's definitely a top 5 weapon

[glossy iris]

what’s top 3 weapons? for light.

[last steeple]

What's your top 5 then

[slow linden]

Lh1,arn,m11

[last steeple]

Lh1 and Arn are the same but auto and not auto, M11, and v9s

[slow linden]

Lh1,m11,xp54,v9s,93r(arn is broken so to include it would be unfair)

[glossy iris]

word arn too good😭

[last steeple]

NAH BRO you just removed one of the best weapon just to include xp

Btw lh1 is I think better but rlly harder to use

[slow linden]

Arn being the best in a balanced game is not permanent

[last steeple]

And M11 and v9s you could argue they are better too

[slow linden]

Arn will be on the chopping block eventually,sooner than other options

[last steeple]

I mean Arn is in a great spot rn, top weapon only if you can keep the range

[slow linden]

Range should not be encouraged in this game

[last steeple]

You're playing flame ofc you're saying ts

[slow linden]

I play minigun a lot too,I have no issue with being out ranged on short range builds,I think long range should just be limited to a few weapons and a few weapon types,most of the weapons are mid range and most of the fights are mid to close range

Sniper,pike,repeater,and lh1 should be the only guns you can just snipe with

[alpine sphinx]

as a completely unbiased melee player i agree tho, the layout of many maps is heavily in favor of long range engagements. Basically every map has many cashout stations that require you to push the enemy which becomes disproportionately harder if you cant play on long range. This is difficult to adjust, but some maps (monacco, Seoul skybridge part, All of Kyoto) are very extreme and basically dont allow for close range playstyles to have any viability. Additionally modifiers like Elevated Platforms exist which give yet another advantage to long range gameplay.

Of course this is a very difficult thing to balance because obviously long range is always gonna have advantages over close range, but i think the map design is wayyy too strongly in favor of long range fights.

[last steeple]

Makes sense but then Arn would be so bad (it already has a slightly worse range I think not sure but it's still huge)

[last steeple]

Since there's a lot of way to drop platforms, and since in Seoul you can actually close the distance between you and covers rlly fast it's ok, but I do agree that kyoto is terrible and Monaco has a lot of long range engagements

Seoul requires you to use pad gate or zip tho so if the heavy's alone gl

[slow linden]

It's just an m60 with no recoil,I would rather something be a little bad than broken

[last steeple]

It has recoil 🤓

I mean the spray pattern isn't that hard but to beam at range you need a tiny bit of skill or a controller lol

[slow linden]

Flamethrower is bad,but I still play it and do work with it,when they add a no effort long range paintbrush that you can just point and click adventure everyone to death,then it does nothing but hurt niche options

[slow linden]

Controller does not aim easier they have better movement

[last steeple]

You can aim easier wth

[craggy plume]

mnk are better at long range than controllers

[slow linden]

Mouse is more precise

[last steeple]

True but controller has a skill floor way below mk

And about movement idk man I don't think so

[slow linden]

Controller is so primitive of an aiming tool that it NEEDS aim assist to even hit some targets in a game this fast

[last steeple]

True but aim assist at close to mid range is very very veeery easy

Like you ads the crosshair goes on the ennemy and with low efforts you won't stop tracking the dude

Hopefully aim assist is fine in tf I'm not complaining, way better than in some other fps

Not better like more efficient but better like more fair

But my point is a new player using controller and aim assit will be way better than a new/mid- player using mnk

And even at range it will be the case

[craggy plume]

no new players using a controller are horrible. every game has the sens way too low to be good at anything

[last steeple]

Idk when I played controller it was easy

[craggy plume]

they move and aim like a pensioner

[slow linden]

Movement is more important than aim

[craggy plume]

probably bcs you already had game knowledge

[last steeple]

Sometimes rarely my mouse die in a middle of a game and I have to plug in my controller, I never play controller and I do rlly well

And my movement with controller is worse than with mnk

Mnk just feels so good and yeah maybe it's game knowledge

Taking the right engagements is more important than aim I do agree

But even a friend I introduced to the finals plays controller on steam and he actually does well against other new and mid players

Controller

I should tell him to tune the settings btw

[alpine sphinx]

seaul skybridge is literally a deathzone, once the bridge is down you have to run across open field for like 30 meters which is a death sentence. And you usually cant get 2-3 platforms down in time

[last steeple]

My man, just pad on the tiny stairs or ask for a gateway, hospital is only a problem when your mates are dumb and it's not a range problem

[alpine sphinx]

even if you do that you take like half health in damage and are easily rushed afterwards

[last steeple]

Nah not half and even then there's time to heal before they rush (and not everyone takes mid life)

[alpine sphinx]

in like 80% of my games hospital remains uncontested because usually its just not worth the struggle and youre way better off third partying the other cashout

[last steeple]

And for platforms there's also a way to go on it without much risks if once again the team8 align 3 braincells

[alpine sphinx]

which demands a coordinated team with coordinated loadouts, and even then its suboptimal on most maps

[last steeple]

It demands a coordinated team and is suboptimal in some maps*

Fun>the rest anyways and since I don't think we're playing in ruby lobbies (most of the time caus sometimes matchmaking is scary ik) it's still good (close range not melee, melee has other problems)

[outer crow]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-tf2-soldier-stblackst-tf2-intelligence-open-crate-gif-11027307875200298248

[vocal stone]

I think we need more model sawed off skins. I thought that maybe those seasonal rewards skins (emerald, plat, etc) need to have 2 variants of model skin (regular and sawed off) in 1 bundle

[slow linden]

Give me a long barrel full stock db skin and we have a deal

[versed finch]

I'd love to see a shorty DB skin

[slow linden]

Wouldn't work,not enough bullets

Or shells

[karmic glade]

i'd love to have a bow/throwing knives type weapon for medium or heavy, the akimbos or crossbow match this a little and the rework for the mgl32 might also fill that role, something high skill-ceiling that doesn't require too much tracking but does need a lot of skill to work properly

[craggy plume]

they can make everything work.
looking at the musket skin

[vocal stone]

Actually, why not. I mean, if model variants exist, that implies that DB variants could exist too

[slow linden]

A super shorty would better fit the matter

Maybe the ks23 but that's pushing it

[slow linden]

Give heavy a harpoon gun

[karmic glade]

ooooo yes i agree, like a giant one on a boat but handheld like the minigun

[slow linden]

Either that or a naval cannon,no ads,left click for grapeshot,right click for an exploding cannonball

Or just harpoon

Either one

[slim jay]

The reason I put the barricade down was because the mine is a bit less obvious than leaving two mines stacked on top of eachother on the floor

[slim jay]

i was guessing they nerfed it somewhere along the line

[acoustic vale]

once they walk through the door they r just dead. They either hear the mines or they don't

[slim jay]

With the barricade it works better from both sides

[slim jay]

if your in the room and go to run through the door and see mines you wont run through. But if you put them on a barricade, your forced to go around or over it, by which point your dead and have not even seen the mines

[acoustic vale]

a) you will see them on the barricade b) you can place them closer to the door on the floor and save the barricade c) without barricade is better because someone might walk into it from the inside and d) there are better ways to use mines than on a door like that, they are very easy to hear

[slim jay]

Yeah i thought up this and did not do too much testing so i could definitely be improved

[sharp vortex]

WHY WAS SHOCKWAVE SHADOW NERFED? It was nerfed way beyond what the patch notes mentioned.
I agree combining shockwave tech with jump pad was a bit over tuned, you could combo it from the base to the top of crane on seoul.

BUT Shockwave needs more base verticality when using it on self to back to be fun / viable. You can only get up one level onto almost any building with it now. Where previously it was two stories, without even having to mantle at the end of the jump.

Why call it the aerialist but its specialization when it only lets you gain one floor's worth of height? I can gain one floor's worth of height by using a goo grenade, mantling a door, or awning, or even standing on a stage prop.

[vocal stone]

MAN that hotfix notification looked tasty af, i thought they fixed shockwave 😔

[spring oasis]

Outside of Dome, C4, RPG, what are other good heavy gadget comboes?

[alpine sphinx]

is it a controversial opinion if i say that i think hipfire is too reliable in this game?

[muted condor]

Grav cube, chuck, and motion sensor are all really good

[spring oasis]

What is chuck?

[vocal stone]

Chuck the healing emitter

[last steeple]

Yes it's part of the game's identity

[half shale]

His/its name is Chuck...?

[spring oasis]

Ohhhhhh, is that name referring to the skin then? Or is it like a Terry situation?

[vocal stone]

Yeah, officially

[alpine sphinx]

it definitely isnt

nobody thinks of "accurate hipfire" when thinking about features that define this games identity

[spring oasis]

Are you a controller player?

[alpine sphinx]

no

[spring oasis]

Are you sure?

[vocal stone]

It was a meme first because when introducing it embark wrote a sentence that goes like "Chuck the healing emitter" (chuck as a verb here), and a lot of people perceived "chuck" as his name and embark just went along with it and made skin

[alpine sphinx]

bro i would rather uninstall than play any fps game with a controller

[compact quest]

Literally no one knows. Embark just does what they do. My guess is shockwave made sword lights mad so they gutted it to cater to their favorite demographic

[spring oasis]

That's a good meme, thank you for the lore drop

[spring oasis]

What issue do you have with accurate hipfire then?

[muted condor]

Community nickname for it that I forget isn’t actually the real name

[alpine sphinx]

it significantly reduces the skillfloor of full auto weapons and results in these garbage ass pickrates that we have now where 90% of players play M11/Arn/XP or FCAR/AKM, or M60/Lewis/Shak

[muted condor]

90% of players also suck at the game

[spring oasis]

How do you believe it reduces the skill floor of automatic weapons?

[alpine sphinx]

because it quite literally makes it much easier to perform well in close quarters with weapons that were meant for medium range

making something easier automatically means lowering the skill floor

[chilly granite]

BRUH

They are buffiung stuff that they know is good becuase it's unpopular becasuse it has as higher skill floor

repeater/93r shoutout

[last steeple]

The finals is close to a movement shooter but how can you go fast if you always have to ads

[alpine sphinx]

thats a very selective look at things, SA is unpopular overall, yet it still gor nerfed because it was good in pro play

[vocal stone]

Btw, do you think fcar needs to be nerfed slightly?

[chilly granite]

he literally just said on the livestream that they buffed 93r despite it being good because it was unpopular

[alpine sphinx]

you walk slow while shooting anyways

[chilly granite]

stuff =/= everything

it hapepnign to anything is a problem

[alpine sphinx]

yes and im saying that this is not universally true

weapons have been buffed for seemingly no reason despite being popular and in a good place

[chilly granite]

literally irrelvent to what I said? I never said it was universally true

[alpine sphinx]

this sounds like a generalizing statement

[spring oasis]

I think pushing players together by permitting accurate hipfire on weapons encourages aggressive gameplay which is inherently riskier than long range playstyles. This riskier approach to gameplay demands more skill to be effective so I believe accurate hipfire actually raises the skill floor, and having inaccurate hipfire would lower it because it would discourage closer range gameplay in favour of longer range, more safe, less mechanically intense gameplay

[last steeple]

My bad that's not my point, my point is that being able to take close range engagements with an auto weapon is a great thing, the finals is a chaotic game where it's hard to predict everything and you'll end up close to someone pretty often

[alpine sphinx]

"less mechanically intense" is what you get with accurate hipfire though.... and long range being too prevalent is a separate issue, one of map layout design

[last steeple]

And since you can moove fast before shooting you can also close the distance before using hipfire

[alpine sphinx]

yeah that is true, but you should be at a disadvantage to close range weapons if you are using a medium to long range weapon

[spring oasis]

No it is not because you have larger freedom of movement when hipfiring which increases the potential for rapid movement that may be difficult to aim through.

I am comparing it to long range gameplay where you are sitting still, or at most jiggling a corner, easily able to disengage; there is a lot more that must be done in close range gameplay

[last steeple]

And THIS releases a lot of dopamine cause you can rush someone and skill diff em with a great spray control

[alpine sphinx]

this would be fine in a game where only those weapon types exist, but we have shotguns, melee, even a flamethrower, which require a close distance to even work. A medium range weapon easily outperforming a melee weapon at close range should not happen so reliably

its a toxic problem which forces toxic solutions such as dash or winch

[last steeple]

I mean it's not actually the case, depends on the weapon

[alpine sphinx]

point is that it is way too consistent

[last steeple]

Flame is meant to be used as a low ttk aoe weapon with "kite" potential since it has dot, Cerberus wins every fight at close range, same for sa and melee options if you hit your shots/are close enough, model actually has some range and can peek/unpeek, dB also outperforms those autos even though dB is a bit too trash and requires you to have perfect aim, and matter is indeed a worse M11 in most of the cases lol but js like the model you can peek/unpeek

[last steeple]

It's maybe easier to use but it's not better than close range weapons, at close range

[alpine sphinx]

"X is meant to be used" fine, Medium range weapons are meant to be used at medium range

[last steeple]

"medium range" ❌
"Autos" ✅
Who said you can't use a gun at close range

[alpine sphinx]

cerberus cant kill a full hp heavy before it gets annihilated by shak

[spring oasis]

This player would rather everyone sit 40m away from each on rooftops all match

[alpine sphinx]

nobody, but guns were not "meant" for cqc

in this game anyway, why else even have cqc weapons

[last steeple]

M11 is a close range weapon for example, and ak you could argue that it's a medium range weapon, and it is better at medium range than in close range, still usable in close range if you're skilled enough and your opponent bad enough

Same for every autos in the game

[spring oasis]

Maybe they got beamed through dash by FCAR while using SH1900 one too many times

[alpine sphinx]

M11 is close to mid range, it has far more range than some people give it credit for

[alpine sphinx]

literally the opposite of what i want

i want the players to be encouraged to use a variety of weapons, and not everyone defaulting to the same 3 flavors of "mid range auto"

[last steeple]

Yeah it has a lot of range if you have an actual great spray control (since the pattern is terrifying) BUT it's primarily meant to be used at close range so it having a great hipfire makes sense

[alpine sphinx]

i have a long list of problems with M11 but yeah sure youre right, it gets enabled to play "longshort" range by dash, which is its own can of worms

anyways i gtg for now

[muted condor]

Everyone is always going to use mid range autos no matter what in literally every shooter they exist in that’s just a fact of shooters

That’s not a balancing or Finals problem

[spring oasis]

It is not a bad thing either

[last steeple]

Lemme tell you something for when you come back, the game is already in a balanced state right now, sure not everything is in S tier, but you can pick a B/even C tier weapon over a S tier and still be a w player so the game already encourages you to play what you like the most, and if you think it's unfair, have a better gamesense, sorry
Once again you could argue that most of the medium-ranged autos are easier to use at close range than most of the close range non-auto weapons, but still, close range non auto weapons are better in close range than medium ranged autos

Instead of allowing people to pick more different weapons, nerfing hipfire would disable some playstyles by just completely preventing you from getting close range if you use a gun, it would be TERRIBLE

And that is partly why I think great hipfire is part of the game's identity

[slow linden]

What good hate are we speaking today?

[chilly granite]

man this is a crazy take when hipfire is ass in this game lol

you should be ads'ing 99% of the time evne in cqb and not doing so is a skill issue

[muted condor]

Most people have a well rounded play style that isn’t specialized in anything so they will pick a well rounded weapon that doesn’t specialize in anything. That’s why medium will always be the most play archetype with auto weapons.

The idea that that’s bad or should be changed is just dumb because you’re changing what the majority of players like for the minority of people that like niche play styles

[spring oasis]

Exactly

[last steeple]

Ass isn't true, it's better than in most shooter games BUT it's a great thing and it doesn't mean it's perfect

[muted condor]

He definitely hasn’t seen apex hipfire lol

[peak drift]

I def don’t think the hipfire is ass, for sure better than other fps games

[chilly granite]

there's few games where the hipfire is significantly worse*
it's moreso that the punishment for hipfiring is less since there's no oneshot headshot

[last steeple]

And this is why nerfing hipfire would make tf one step closer to other fps 🗣️ 🔥

[chilly granite]

hipfire punishment is basically proportionate to the time to kill difference between well aimed shots and hipfiring center mass

in games with instakill headshots, hipfiring is always going to feel bad even if the hipfire is significantly tigher than the finals

(assumign there's any significant spread at all)

[peak drift]

And I truly believe that the hipfire should remain the way it is especially since the finals is one of the few fps where you don’t have a secondary weapon as well. I think our friend earlier forgot about this

[chilly granite]

like hipfire is firmly worse in the finals than apex and counterstrike, but the meta in finals can make it more viable than counterstrike

(i mean full speed running hipfire in cs, maximum spread)

it's just that if you hipfire in cs against someone who isn't hipfiring and they onetap you, you dead, so it's obviously not the best strategy

this is basically true of most other games, including a lot of cods

[muted condor]

I do think the crossbow hip fire is a little to good

[dense oasis]

I like hipfire. Never understood the “need” for iron sights

[muted condor]

You shouldn’t really be hitting head shots with a hip fire

[chilly granite]

the actaul radius of the hipfire spread is generally tighter than the finals, but the rooms being so tight in the finals, combined with a low headshot multiplier, means that hipfire punishment is relatively miniscule

for me, crossbow hipfire is both too bad and too good

it's good neough to be annyoing but it's too bad to be reliable for headshots so I can't play it as a crosshair weapon

[alpine sphinx]

Counter strike is a horrible example for this

[chilly granite]

I actually think it's a perfect example, becasue it quite clearly demonstrates that the "quality" of hipfire is less importatnt than the metagame around headshot/bodyshot value

[dense oasis]

CS hipfire has always been fucking weird imo
Just gimme that L4D type gunplay where the weapons are as accurate as they need to be, and crouching improved accuracy. No need to ADS, just aim and shoot

[chilly granite]

headshot value in cs is so high than excluding pistols and sometimes smgs, full run speed hipfire is never used as a tool

headshots being a 4x multiplier

[alpine sphinx]

Yeah people basically never run and gun after a certain point, simply because it's not feasible, but cs also doesn't really have a lot of verticality and the overall game flow is very different

[dense oasis]

CS is The Finals without funs (except surfing)

[alpine sphinx]

As a competitive e sport cs is a lot better than the finals, simply due to its lack of dynamism and a strict teamVteam format

[chilly granite]

headshots in the finals are mostly a 1.5x multi, so hipfire is much better value relative to counterstrike

you're only losing a 1/3rd of damage if you hit equal shots by hipfiring ceneter mass instead of adsing headshots, and skill issues can make hipfiring cetner mass easier than ads center mass

[chilly granite]

dota is an excellent competative game with lots of dynamism

the issue with the finals is that they want hard counters not soft counters when softcounters are more dynamism than hard counters

[alpine sphinx]

I hate mobas with a passion, I think it's one of the most boring game genres in existence, so idk anything about the competitive scene

[dense oasis]

That is kinda true- hard counter for shield and blades is the 40mm, hard counter for flamethrower is just being out of range

[chilly granite]

you probably hate league becuase league is boring becuase league isn't dynamism

[muted condor]

Not anymore tbh

The CL40 is just straight trash now

[alpine sphinx]

Do people even know what a "hard counter" is?

Staying out of range is a hard counter, simply using a gun which shoots just like any other gun is not a hard counter

[dense oasis]

Kiiinda, I think the 40 is a really tough weapon to get right. The appeal to a grenade launcher is AoE, but then giving it too much coverage makes it a noob tube, but take that away, then it doesn’t feel like a launcher and it’s just a gun without hitscan

[dense oasis]

Well, if the smoke canisters and grenades stopped the thing from working, that’d definitely a hard counter lol

[dense oasis]

Plus, I think Embark really wanting to be indie ™ and choose the China Lake really proved to be their undoing, as having a pump-action grenade launcher that doesn’t live up to the fantasy of a pump-action grenade launcher can feel kinda bad

[shell sonnet]

could make it a tf2 loch n load

only has aoe on directs, but if you do, you are lethal to close playing teams
the LTM cl-40 we had is kind of close (but give, too insane in stats ofc)

[muted condor]

Now it’s just a slow fire rate, high TTK, low ammo, slow projectile, poke weapon that blasts the user into the shadow realm if you shoot it with two miles of your self

[kindred gorge]

They should let you winch teammates it would be funny I think

[dense oasis]

Your typical M37 (I think?) M39

[shell sonnet]

meh, bunny hopping does more than you think against self damage
just make sure not to actually hit your enemies because that increases self damage again

[kindred gorge]

pull them out of danger lifeweaver style or use spear to throw your teammate across the map

[muted condor]

They should just make a grenade launcher that works as a aoe weapon and tell shit light players to get good

[shell sonnet]

yep

[muted condor]

With the most recent update that doesn’t even work anymore because the aoe damage is horrible against enemies and you’re forced to go for direct hits

[dense oasis]

Grenade launchers are a nightmare to balance- they’re either OP and unfair, or dogshit.

[muted condor]

The cl40 was in its best state back in season 6/7 amd they have continued to make it worse since

[chilly granite]

@fervent berry

you answered my question re the crossbow being hitscan vs projectile, I appreacite that, I do consider it a blunder considering the relatively small design space of projectiel weapons (which you somewhat mentioned)

but as the design decision to make the crossbow a hitscan weapon was made to cater for people using aim assist, are you considering people with potato graphics for other weapon designs?

for clarity: Medium does not have a weapon that uses crosshair ADS like the Bow, ks23, and deagles

if you happen to be a poor with a gpu from a few years ago, this is a problem becuase the rendering of the optics/ironsights makes them unusably bad quality - see attached photo

as both a projectile weapon, and crosshair ads enjoyer, I was very much looking forward to the crossbow, which seemed a likely candidate as a crosshair ads/precision/projectile counterpart to lights bow so I was very dissapointed

also, if the repeater still has balance issues, it should totally become a knockoff ks23, which would also fix visiblity issues with the new skins for it

also if you guys have so much stats please expose at least some of the intersting ones to players in client! You can't even check your own wins/losses per class.

[muted condor]

Oh god embark would have to put some effort in and balance something for once

What will the poor devs do now they they have to do their job

[dense oasis]

Balance falls under a very wide umbrella of “difficulty” imo, and that in and of itself is… well, difficult to get right for most people

[muted condor]

Yeah but embark can’t even balance the easy stuff as is

[dense oasis]

I don’t think most devs can

[muted condor]

It’s nothing to do with how hard it is to balance and it’s just that they suck at their job

[dense oasis]

The easy way out would just be hyper-realistic “you die in one to three shots” kind of stuff

At least with the Finals, weapons are supposed to have their own functions, encounters are meant to last more than just a second, and the build types have their purposes

[kindred gorge]

stats by class would be huge

[dense oasis]

Balance is a hard thing to get, that’s why so many games out there with more than just your basic mechanics have issues with it

[muted condor]

They actually already took the easy way out of not even trying

[dense oasis]

I disagree

Most players are good at finding problems, but awful at coming up with solutions

[muted condor]

They decided the “throw shit at the wall randomly until something works” is the best form of making changes

[dense oasis]

Hence, most players’ knee-jerk reaction is just “buff everything” without realizing that’s just power creep

[alpine sphinx]

uhh is this how the mgl is supposed to work?

[muted condor]

The “only buff stuff” crowd are the biggest troglodytes around

[alpine sphinx]

the delay when it is supposed to bounce off seems very uncanny

[muted condor]

They don’t think past two updates

[muted condor]

Just wait tell you see grenades not even bouncing and just sticking to walls and never detonating

[alpine sphinx]

that seems like a situational bug, this is 100% consistent

[muted condor]

Yeah it’s pretty dumb

Been a problem for ages and is worse some days than others

I’m making a random guess it’s somehow server related like half the problems

[alpine sphinx]

it was overperforming, so they had to shadow nerf it

also crazy how it is infinitely harder to hit with it than the CL yet somehow it does way less damage and cant even kill a medium with 3 full hits

[muted condor]

The MGL in general is super fucked up. It can be fun but it’s super reliant on the game not screwing you

[alpine sphinx]

waiting on that rework

[muted condor]

It’s way better than the cl40 somehow

[alpine sphinx]

lies

[muted condor]

It’s way better than most people think but still not great

It and the spear are in the same hole of potently amazing but kneecapped by embarks incompetence

[alpine sphinx]

it is the worst weapon specifically because it is too inconsistent

[muted condor]

Naw

Skill issue no offense
It has a bunch of things you can do that other weapons can’t to make up for it’s problems

[kindred gorge]

CL-40 frankly should not have the kill power of other medium weapons because of its versatility in other aspects. It's like how you sacrifice some kill power on the KS-23 in exchange for wallbreak

[muted condor]

Good thing for you it doesn’t have any kill power

MGL is tied with spear for worst heavy weapons but cl40 and dagger are probably the worst weapons over all

[kindred gorge]

spear's really not that bad

and I know cause I played spear pretty much exclusively for a few months

[silver pike]

The Sword has to be the one of the most frustrating weapons in the game to play against idk how it goes untouched for Seasons. All the balancing does not need to be based around people in Diamond lobbies where it's not good there.

[chilly granite]

@fervent berry also please, why do you hate the gravity vortex so much?

also, please less hard counters, more soft counters. it would be so cool to throw a gravity vortex at a dome shield and have it explode like a glitch grenade and pull everyone in

and pyro nade bouncing off is hilarious and awful design and anti-dynamism

like, dome shield just rejecting all interactions outside of glitch grenade is not dynamism at all

also, please can you guys consider faster iteration of stuff that is really really unpopular/underpowered? Like, slow iteration is fine for stuff that's balanced, but there's a lot of stuff that's unloved and suchlike

if you want light to be a viable replacement for heavy, you gotta be able to replicate the loadout and what it offers. And there's no loadout on light that replicatese what rpg/c4/dome shield offers a team

I play breach charge and every single kill I've gotten with it has been exploding my teammates c4 on the box, not the breach cahrges themselves... the damage radius and damage amount is simply too anemic for it to offer a comparable amount of stall to c4, even with 3 stacked charges

and light/mediums rivals to rpg in thermal bore/breach drill are unbelievably weaker

unique gadgets need to weaker to ensure that there's good counterplay without having your own equivalent, and that's basically just not true of defibs, rpg, c4, dome shield, h+ and more

hared counters are inherently going to lean into a fixed meta of hml rather than hhh/mmm/lll being viable too

[broken mulch]

nerf m1, buff m2, skill floor goes up, usuable in higher ranks again, yippee

[kindred gorge]

how much can you raise the skill floor before you discourage new players from ever trying it though

or at worst they lose interest in the game cause the have no chance against anyone with any amount of expirience

[broken mulch]

s1 sword was fine no?

[silver pike]

yeah I'm sure new players love picking up a gun and getting deleted by dash light with a sword.

[kindred gorge]

m2 and spin to win?

Also, the difference between s1 and current is the game has actually been around long enough for high skill players to emerge en masse, most games lose new player retention overtime but we have it especially bad because of the general skill floor. Why would you wanna raise it more

the appeal of the game is uniqueness and you're barring prospects from melee ei the most unique thing the finals has to offer over most fps

[silver pike]

the playstyle of it is so insanely unhealthy

[muted condor]

It’s not horrible but all of heavies other weapons are really good so

[broken mulch]

minus multihit on lunge mb shoulda specified
also sword is just not hard to learn

88 damage m1 is completely skilless and lunge camera lock makes it really hard to play past plat

[kindred gorge]

It's not hard to run straight at an enemy, spam dash and m1, until you wipe the team or die. And it's not hard to counter either

There's a big jump of learning in game sense to optimally play sword. An ideal sword player assesses the situation, gets a clean pick and then backs out to reset

[silver pike]

There really isn't only in high skill lobbies where it doesn't belong in the first place is where it actually requires a brain.

[chilly granite]

right now light and meidum have 2-4 excellent gadgets and the rest are mid to awful, which means the oppertunity cost of non-hml is higher than the oppertunity cost of other drafts

similarly, defibs is much worse value on light than on medium or heavy, which discourages mll and ecnourages hhm or hml

I think this is most evident from HHx being the most viable non-hml draft, because heavy has by far the broadest selection of powerful gadgets, and gadgets that increase in power as they stack (dome shield cough couhg)

I think this is also why people generally percieve medium to be the weakest class, as their gadgets are the most replacable/can replace the other classes the least

like breach drill is not a valid replacement for breach charge, let alone c4, it's so hilariously bad by comparison. The clearest inidicator is likely how one of the meta medium gadgets is litearlly a generic gadget in goo grenade

@fervent berry

[silver pike]

The damage on it is high enough to easily rush down people before they can kill you unless you getting shot by more than 2 people.

[broken mulch]

akm outdpses sword

which is why m1 spam only works against new players

[silver pike]

People don't have 100% accuracy with the akm

[kindred gorge]

you don't need it

[broken mulch]

akm isnt exactly known for its melee prowess either

u got range, sword doesnt

[chilly granite]

swords biggest problem is sitll stacking lunge movement with dash

make it a heavy weapon and give light spear

[silver pike]

People say this but it doesn't play out that way the majority of the time unless you have like more than 6 meters.

[kindred gorge]

so the sword wins when it's in a position to win. What's the issue with that? If you get caught of guard by pretty much any weapon you are likely to lose

[silver pike]

I get melted all the time by a sword with a shak and you can say I suck but so does the player with a sword rushing people down with M1 and not having to aim.

[broken mulch]

no i agree but also sword isnt exaclty s tier

[kindred gorge]

a sword player who can get into posistion without being detected and get the drop on you in a 1v1 deserves the kill

[silver pike]

Yeah but it's a pubstomper anti-fun cheese weapon

[broken mulch]

m1 spam sucks which is why i think you should nerf m1 to 74 and buff lunge by removing camera lock since it was always the skilled part of the weapon anyways

[silver pike]

It really should not be that way

[broken mulch]

which would not raise the skill floor so high a new player could not use it

[silver pike]

every other melee weapon in the game has a much harder time securing kills

[broken mulch]

cause they fucking suck

[silver pike]

They have more counterplay

[broken mulch]

yea man stuff that sucks is easy to play against

when someone does well with that weapon its cause they good not cause the weapon is

[silver pike]

Nope

When people do well with that weapon it's usually becuase it's very good against teams uncoordinated teams and just absolutely destroys in 1v1 duels because a freaking monkey could play it

If you're talking in Plat+ yeah sure. Then you have to have some skill

What percentage of the player base do you think is Plat +

[broken mulch]

what weapon are you talking abt when u say that weapon

[silver pike]

Sword

[broken mulch]

yea so nerf m1 to 74 so m1 spam is bad, buff lunge so it doesnt get stomped at higher ranks

[silver pike]

just because it isn't the most meta weapon doesn't mean it still can't be adjusted.

I mean goo just got nerfed but reverted because it made the game bug out

Too many people defend the damn thing because they just want a low skill melee weapon that can farm unskilled lobbies with ease.

[broken mulch]

you ever played sword?

[silver pike]

Yes it's easy

[broken mulch]

and i dont mean in tdm or something i mean in at least a gold lobby

gold lobby is bare minimum

[silver pike]

the balance change wouldn't be for gold lobbies

[broken mulch]

what balance change are you even asking for

[silver pike]

Nerf the m1 it's been long enough.

[broken mulch]

dude thats deadass what ive been saying this whole ass time

[silver pike]

I still don't agree with you even if we agree that m1 is the problem

[broken mulch]

i also actually play sword tho so

i dont talk abt what cl 40 needs even if i dont like playin against it cause i dont play it

[silver pike]

I don't understand why they would balance the weapon around the minority of players when it isn't even a ranked weapon in the first place.

[broken mulch]

dude it sucks in ranked literally what are you talking about

[silver pike]

Why play sword in at all in ranked when the m11 is absolutely disgusting

[broken mulch]

because i like sword is why

[silver pike]

Exactly so why are people using ranked as an example for why it should stay the same

It just makes no sense because it doesn't play in ranked in the first place.

It's a WT and Bronze- gold lobbies weapon

[broken mulch]

who is using ranked to say it should stay the same

it needs to be nerfed at lower levels and buffed at higher levels which the m1 and m2 changes would do

they did an awful job balancing sword

[sudden pewter]

Frankly you’re both wrong, and what’s needed is for sword to be removed entirely and replaced with a Psychic Assault that beams anime directly into an enemy contestants brain but requires you stay within 5m for 3s

[silver pike]

If sword was removed I'd be way happier but obviously it'll never happen

[broken mulch]

damn i didnt consider that

[broken mulch]

yea but thatd suck literally just shoot the dude

hes got less dps than you and needs to get closer than you do
extremely weak to mines and glitch traps as well

[silver pike]

It's way harder to hit the person dashing into range then for them to spam m1 in your face and kill you.

[broken mulch]

and yet sword isnt good
how can this be

[silver pike]

Because being out in the open as light is risky

it purely comes down to them not having a lot of health it's not really that the weapon is bad.

[broken mulch]

i mean you could argue that about any light weapon "if a light had 350 hp the xp5 would be way better" like yea ig bro

[silver pike]

Yeah but meta weapons are just way better.

M11 is just an infinitely better dive weapon

It still doesn't make it any less frustrating dying to someone who can just click their mouse a few times and you're dead

M11 should get nerfed too

realistcally

[broken mulch]

alright so what are your proposed changes

[silver pike]

More horizontal recoil, less bullet capacity

[broken mulch]

oh i meant for sword

[silver pike]

tbh they should lower the swing speed

on the m1 make it less spammy then it is

the weapon should be more reliant on your team getting shots on the player or needing to open with a m2 or any kind of damage period

It needs some kind of m1 nerf if they buff it on m2 i don't care.

[broken mulch]

so why were you saying you disagreed with me

i said nerf m1 buff m2 and ur sayin the same thing

[silver pike]

Just don't agree to balance based on the top down. It really doesn't matter that it's not good once people get good. Because it's not a weapon competitive players use in the first place.

Because melee on light is not good in the first place.

[broken mulch]

ideally every weapon would be competitively viable

not realistic sure but thatd be ideal

[silver pike]

nah

[muted condor]

If sword was good then why do I shit on every sword user that shows up

[silver pike]

Embark doesn't want melee to be high tier. Because it takes the focus away from gun skill. That's why they nerfed sledge a few seasons ago even though it wasn't even meta.

[muted condor]

Sledge winning in ruby lobbies
Not meta apparently
Interesting

[silver pike]

i mean ks wins in ruby lobbies

but that's also not meta

[muted condor]

Not meta for lower lobbies doesn’t mean it’s not good

Sledge got nerfed because it had one shot combos

[outer cove]

All of the customization for my gadgets and weapons are not saving; they keep resetting back to the default. Happens way too often. Anyone have an idea why this keeps happening and the solution to fix it?

I just went through and customized everything, only for it all to disappear and not save. Customized a loadout before a game of Cashout, but none of it saved once i entered the match (i.e., weapon skins, sights, etc.).

Really frustrating and time-consuming.

[winged junco]

22 bullets for Shak? I feel like a lot of the time I’m losing a fight since I need 1-2 more bullets. Idk.

[indigo nexus]

shak is a very good weapon, it's supposed to require precision

that's its gimmick

[winged junco]

I have an idea. It has 22 bullets up until gold 2 or so. Then back to 20. 😭I may have bad aim.

[sudden pewter]

Poor craftsman blames his tools.

[viscid carbon]

LH1 goes so hard

Not sure if I prefer it over the ARN or V9S though

[sudden pewter]

LH1 has been good for a while

[viscid carbon]

I’d get the Eclipse Shade for it as it’s a Mk14 EBR, but the hand clipping is atrocious since they didn’t bother to do custom hand placements for it

[kindred gorge]

What should I put on my wizard loadout?

(Medium, with shockwave cause obvi)

[viscid carbon]

I put it on heavy lol

I cast RAAAAAAAAAAH

[kindred gorge]

Consider: FIREBALL

[turbid lance]

I struggle with the xp54 for some reason but don't struggle with most of light's other weapons. something about the TTK feels weird, and the recoil and spread just throws me off. anyone have any insight?

[floral wigeon]

meta weapons do not deserve to be buffed

[rustic fossil]

Yay either slow down take a second to aim at your target then fire or if mouse burst fire for easier aim control

[kindred gorge]

It’s crazy how you can tell what class a person plays after one message

I mean, it’s a factual statement but even so people just be outing themselves asap

[lone wagon]

day 15 of asking for a paris map till i get a baguette sword skin, a paris map, or both

[abstract kestrel]

All the weapons more fun when you using them in head 2 head

[alpine sphinx]

the dash nerf wasnt enough, shit is still just as toxic as it was before

[stoic garden]

i main heavy and i basically have light main takes lol, shak does not deserve buffs

[alpine sphinx]

i really wanna like playing ranked but sadly it promotes the most bitchless, fatherless and toxic playstyles this game has to offer

[kindred gorge]

Like I said dude, I agree that the shak doesn’t need a buff

Pretty much everyone has that take

[stoic garden]

true true, I'm a lewis supremacist anyway

[blissful dawn]

Allow us to “sight” our own crosshair hipfire. By vertical, horizontal rotation and focal depth. everything feels very flat and in your face.

[alpine sphinx]

Remove Winch.

[sudden pewter]

I’m a Heavy main and Shak doesn’t need buffs. It’s the golden standard of what all weapons should aspire to. Powerful, but punishing.

[stoic garden]

i dont think all weapons need to be like that, it's ok to have all rounders that aren't as powerful or punishing

but i will agree that, in a vacuum, it is well balanced

it's just that winch exists 😪

[alpine sphinx]

Yes embark does not care. Dash, Winch and Defibrillator are all 3 absolutely detrimental to the health of the game, but embark does not care because the pro play revolves around them. Any significant changes to any of those would significantly change pro play and embark does not want that, so instead they opt for changes that arent even worth mentioning, just so they can have their name and a nerf appear in the patch notes

[dense oasis]

Cinquedea skin looking good!

[faint steppe]

Idk, why it deleted my message but yeah trying to vehemently balance the three classes around these things is ultimately hurting the game a lot

[alpine sphinx]

Defi has been nerfed 4 consecutive times, winch has been nerfed 6 times, and dash has been barely touched because embark doesnt dare to upset light players, since they always scream the loudest or sth

yet they still ALL remain dominant and toxic, you cant try to fix fundamentally broken mechanics with small bandaid fixes, that essentially achieve nothing

[dense oasis]

Light doesn't have any outright defenses, the Dash is the closest we have tbh

[alpine sphinx]

nullifier, goo grenade

[dense oasis]

both can easily miss lol

[alpine sphinx]

skill issue? literally getting punished for bad plays is how this should work lmao

[dense oasis]

flamethrower and pyro grenade, and Cerberus gets rid of goo. Nulli only lasts a second
lmao

[faint steppe]

The thing with Light is that it ultimately has a very high skill ceiling,which leads to many players underperforming with it. Considering Embark balances around win and pick rates I'll doubt they'll ever touch it.

[dense oasis]

Light is just glass canon, that's it

[sudden pewter]

Light is the most popular of the three archetypes, but also has the lowest winrate.

[dense oasis]

it's the most fun

[sudden pewter]

Heavy is the exact opposite. Least popular but with highest winrate.

[alpine sphinx]

fire doesnt instantly break goo, no, and lights are by far the fastest class, you can easily run out of range in the time the goo breaks. Nulli gives you a chance to shake off enemies too, as well as give your team time to prepare for the enemy

[dense oasis]

all the while you can get 3rd partied during your escape

[alpine sphinx]

bro do you want light to be completely untouchable? Idk if you know this, but any class is fucked if they get caught between 2 teams

[faint steppe]

Currently it's not very glass unless you just like standing around. It's currently strong enough to fully replace Medium in the meta even though Medium just got buffed (excluding the stupid Shockwave nerf)

[dense oasis]

Mediums have their shield and blades, heavies have HP, dome and mesh, barricades, the ball.

Lights only have not getting hit

[alpine sphinx]

mediums have no shield lol, its literally one weapon that can block, and dual blades deflect doesnt negate all damage, nor is it very usable if people just dont shoot, it just slows you down. Dash is usable with ALL weapons

[dense oasis]

Mediums have a shield that blocks damage, and blades can reflect

[faint steppe]

I also think it's ultimately dishonest to disregard movement speed, strafe speed and hitbox size and only focus on TTK. The later is far less impactful in actual play than most people here make it out to be

[sudden pewter]

Shield???

Oh the riot shield 💀

[alpine sphinx]

hes comparing dash which all light weapons have access to, to riot shield which locks you into melee range, and doesnt give burst mobility that breaks the game engine

[faint steppe]

They are gimmicks. Insanely annoying to play against but ultimately limited by the fact that they are still melee weapons on a class that's kinda mediocre at using them

[alpine sphinx]

yes, but those are both melee weapons

[dense oasis]

deflect from blades has no range, super useful. And melee can still be competitive

[dense oasis]

and also have defensive capabilities

[faint steppe]

Arguably everything can be "competitive" with enough skill and depending on the skill level of your enemies. People use weapons like spear just fine if that's your argument

[alpine sphinx]

Blade deflect is incredibly hard to hit and very unrewarding since you need to lead your shots even on hit scan weapons because it uses server side hitreg instead of the usual clientside. Melee is only competitive until a certain point (like all weapons) the current core map design and game flow does not allow for melee weapons to be in a dominant position in high elo play

[dense oasis]

The spear is fucking annoying to fight against as any other melee class tbh

[sudden pewter]

The worst melee in the game is annoying to fight against 💀

Yellow role take

[alpine sphinx]

tbf any melee is "annoying" to fight against when youre in their range

[dense oasis]

I don't think you need to lead your shots with it- I could be wrong, but I've never noticed any difference in leading versus directly aiming. The deflect depends on how accurate the weapon being fired is.

[alpine sphinx]

but thats the whole point

[dense oasis]

lol okay, nerd

[hardy dust]

As any melee is pretty important

[alpine sphinx]

yes you do. And its unreliable too since it depends on server ping, which makes it even harder. You also cant hit headshots with the blade deflect which significantly lowers its potential.

[hardy dust]

Spear is basically impossible to beat on sword

And has great matchups against some other melees

It only really has a bad matchup against sledge

[dense oasis]

I mean, I'm mostly in melee range when using it, and most people using really accurate weapons from distance aren't moving much, so I don't personally think leading is very impactful. Hasn't been in my experience

[alpine sphinx]

yeah the range spear gets feels really good against other melee

[dense oasis]

it's the pole-dancing 😩

[alpine sphinx]

its a factor and you cant mean to tell me that dual blades blocking is somehow equal to light having dash

[dense oasis]

Movement vs damage mitigation

and I just got a light with blade deflect LOL

[kindred gorge]

Loosely on the subject did they nerf riot shield, I saw them frequently and they were super annoying but I haven’t seen one in a while

[winged junco]

It was copium blud 😭😭😭

[boreal laurel]

Pretty sure it was a stealth nerf or maybe just a bug—the shield blocks barely anything now, so everyone thinks they’re trash

I can still make it work though (but only because I’ve been maining it since S2)

[noble saddle]

Would you guys recommend running zipline over jump pad in lower Elo lobbies

I find my jump pad feels really selfish (not intentionally) in low Elo because my team doesn't use it properly or ignores it altogether when it's placed which can lead to a stagger and a game loss

Running the Zipline feels like the lower level players use it more often and reliable keeping us grouped properly as we rush the objective

If I had a light running gateway it wouldn't be any issue with this but basically no players run the objective well so I figure making it easy for the team is a huge edge

Jump pad use case over zipline right now is mostly just a quick retreat but it's low Elo I shouldn't need to retreat.

Lights aren't running gateway (or just don't use it well) and zipline is easier for low level players to use to follow me across the map

[dense oasis]

bummed the Ceremonial Cut skin for the Throwing Knives doesn't throw the fans opened :(

[left swallow]

Sledge supremacy!!

[eager wasp]

jumppad everyday of the week

even if they don't use it, selfishly its a great gadget

synergizes well with goo grenade (which should be on the loadout if you are going for more meta ofc)

[frigid imp]

what weapon should i use for heavy

[eager wasp]

shak/sa1216/lewis

[slow linden]

I'm experimenting with goo combos with ks23 and it seems kinda viable

[iron zenith]

damn I missed a melee conversation yesturday :(

[slow linden]

Me too bud,me too

[analog pewter]

dude i cant believe it's true that the crossbow is hitscan because it's easier on controller aim assist 😭 that's so fucking ass

[indigo nexus]

Mm, I am surprised they view it as such an issue in this regard. Aim assist isn’t so strong and the velocity wouldn’t be so low, that I expect a first-order prediction algorithm to not suffice. It may be theoretically exploitable at very long ranges but I just don’t see how this could be a real concern.

[analog pewter]

Yeah it's such a baffling choice

[modern surge]

i mean console player base is larger than pcs so yeah. appeal to the majoriy

[indigo nexus]

Source?

[modern surge]

old quote from devs. not real source. dont trust me blindly

[stoic garden]

MESSI???

[polar cedar]

crossbow NEEDS to be projectile, rn it’s just a medium lh1 💀

[icy egret]

I just had a game of Point Break that went on so long that everyone got kicked because the server closed. Ugh.

First game on Light I've done in forever. No idea what Light players are complaining about, this is so easy.

It's like I'm walking on babies with sprigged boots.

Ah. Now I feel mean. Bah.

[indigo nexus]

It seems much closer to the V9S

LH1 is long range, headshot specialised with poor hipfire, which is quite unlike the crossbow

[polar cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/true-get-this-man-a-true-go-my-true-whatever-go-my-true-gif-16382191100563919909

embed fail 🫩🙏
I see what you mean though, it’s still way too close to other weapons (and needs a nerf imo)

[last steeple]

V9s has actually a terrible hipfire too 🤓

[indigo nexus]

Huh? No, it’s one of the best

M11 and 93r are the only better ones on light

[last steeple]

While moving at least it doesn't have that great of an hipfire

It goes everywhere and it's terrible 💀

But anyways the crossbow is close to a v9s yeah

[long wave]

Why is it when I try to equip a new sight or in my case animation to my arn no matter what I do if I click equip or equip to all and switch tabs and back to the one im trying to change it just defaults back to what it was before. How to fix?

[last steeple]

I wanted to be sure that I don't say bullshit so here it is: the finals wiki

Not the same use than crossbow, only difference tho

[indigo nexus]

Aiming down sights greatly increases the accuracy of almost every gun...

this seems such a weird argument when you are at liberty to measure the dispersion in-game

[last steeple]

You just don't need to ads on most of the other close range weapons

[indigo nexus]

If you're not at a very close range then, yeah, you do...

[last steeple]

On v9s it's almost vital

[last steeple]

You can get away with it with other weapons, and the range you need to be to use hipfire is not the same

[indigo nexus]

Well not really, the V9S has better than average dispersion
by quite a large degree

[last steeple]

Compared to what ? Ranged options ? 😭

[indigo nexus]

well yeah, other guns...

[last steeple]

I js wanted to say that v9s has one of the worst hipfire for close range weapons, and that crossbow has a better hipfire

You'll ads more with v9s than with crossbow

[indigo nexus]

yeah, because crossbow is the lowest hipfire gun in the entire game

V9S is closer to it than it is to the LH1, that's for sure

[last steeple]

Guns don't mean anything you can't compare the arn and the lh1 to M11 and 93r, but you can compare v9s to 93r and m11

[indigo nexus]

arn, LH1, M11 and 93r each have a different range specialisation

[last steeple]

Wdym by lowest ? I'm sorry I don't understand

[indigo nexus]

it has the smallest spread

The V9S is not really comparable to the M11 in range because it has much better range than it does

[last steeple]

Yeah that's just what I meant in my first message, the biggest diff between xbow and v9s is the hipfire

[indigo nexus]

I think the reload time is a bigger difference

[last steeple]

Ehh m11 has a better range than most people think, v9s has a better range, but not much better (considering the fact you have a w spray control)

[last steeple]

True I didn't think about it

[indigo nexus]

It's a lot better. Even if the M11 didn't have massively more recoil it would be.

10-17.5 x0.52
vs
15-25 x0.65

[last steeple]

Multiplier is lower on the M11 and it has a tinier range but not that much

[last steeple]

Nope it's 20 not 25

[indigo nexus]

Huh, I must have missed a patch

[last steeple]

They nerfed it a lot in S9 I think since it was just absurdly broken 😭

[indigo nexus]

I'll get a proper updated comparison of them, then

[indigo nexus]

Still, this point still seems a bit absurd without the caveat of "if you ignore every gun which doesn't have worse range than the V9S"

[last steeple]

Since v9s can be used at the same range than M11 93r and crossbow I wouldn't say it's absurd, terrible is indeed a terrible adjective to describe v9s hipfire lol, but "v9s has actually a worse hipfire too" is a great point

[indigo nexus]

mm, sure

[last steeple]

Caus yk crossbow, js like v9s, can be used at long range too

[indigo nexus]

though with the updated V9S range profile I think XP might have a more similar falloff profile to the crossbow

[last steeple]

Yeah maybe, dunno about the ttk and the concept of the weapon tho

Crossbow is a v9s with better hipfire and xp's range lol

We're doomed

[indigo nexus]

Significantly worse TTK and reloads, though

[last steeple]

Yeah true but like it's a medium weapon so thank god it has a worse ttk

[indigo nexus]

yeah

[indigo nexus]

hey, they are very similar

[viscid carbon]

V9S is still insane but I think taking it down any further would be overnerfing it

It’s a click-based counterpart for the M11 except waaaay more usable at range lol

I love using it but not fighting it lol

[last steeple]

Xdd same but it indeed means that it's an insane weapon

[viscid carbon]

I genuinely cannot get behind the M11 when the V9S exists, the latter just feels so much better to me

[indigo nexus]

Honestly I think I preferred the V9S when its falloff came in as soon as the M11 but ended up better at long range overall than it does now

fit very well with my light grapple playstyle

[viscid carbon]

The V9S’ current long range damage is 24.7, used to be 24.8 lol

(0.65x38 vs 0.62x40)

[indigo nexus]

Oh, yeah, it was just for a brief period where it was 0.65*40

iirc the wiki (or zaffermann’s sheet?) used to claim its falloff multiplier was 0.67, which probably skewed my memory, until a patch note confirmed otherwise

[viscid carbon]

actually no wait, it was 0.62x40 pre-S9, then in 9.0 it became 0.65x40, then in 9.1 – 0.65x38

[rotund plume]

Can anyone give tips for v9s I'm new to this discord server

[balmy fractal]

nerf the Chimera xb

[sudden pewter]

Double Barrel and Dagger are two new weapons on the “rework when we get around to it” pile

AMA was a disaster. They haven’t even started working on the barricade rework yet.

[rustic birch]

nerf swored

[ashen tangle]

Pike has scope glint when aiming. If I remove the optic and use iron sights, will it still produce glint? Also, do weapons like the BFR Titan, LH1, and CB-01 Repeater have glint when using different sights, or only with scoped optics?

[rustic birch]

and inves

nuhu

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[rustic birch]

use other guns pike is badd now

[faint steppe]

It feels like only a few devs are still working on this game. And it doesn't help that Embark is apparently working on a bunch of different projects at the same time

I also think their whole data- driven and pick rate/win rate focused way of maintaining the game doesn't really address most of the community concerns

[sudden pewter]

Melee rework is due next season and they still have no idea what to do.

[sudden pewter]

Under 80 days to completely rework/adjust every melee weapon in the game

[stoic garden]

we need to make a "new season" bingo

shit like "game breaking bugs" and "no thermal vision" 😈

[faint steppe]

I do understand that it's difficult to balance the asymmetry of melee&ranged. I also prefer them trying to engage earnestly with the community instead of giving us some corporate blog posts with a bunch of meaningless buzzwords and reassurance.

But yeah, them just plainly confirming that they have zero idea on how to balance certain things definitely isn't a great approach. But it probably just confirms that the balancing team is rather small or just that one guy

[muted condor]

I know they couldn’t even pull off a basic technical test correctly and almost broke the game doing so for no reason because all it did was provide unusable feedback but they will definitely figure this out in less than three months bro

[sudden pewter]

Honestly terrified imagining how they’ll assess the respec feedback

“We saw your feedback, and have decided to make to adjust the following health values:”

• Heavy 300
• Medium 250
• Light 200

[muted condor]

Worst test Iv ever seen added in a game

[noble saddle]

Im thinking for my MGL build

(Currently MGL, Charge, Barricade, Emitter, Dome but experimenting with smoke)

Thinking of changing out emitter for lockbolt

Essentially the gameplay loop would be to contest space behind barricades and set up smoke grenades down flank routes

If they run through the smoke, I lockbolt them on reaction for a free kill

[slow linden]

Don't lie,we all fell for it

[noble saddle]

Im having a problem where the MGL can't actually properly capitalize off the smoke lol it's too inaccurate, but lockbolt would solve the problem

[slow linden]

It only makes sense that false idols will disappoint though

[muted condor]

I was that got up until season 7

Now I will continue to hate on Embark and be right ever time

[stoic garden]

season 8 got me really fucked up, i dont expect anything anymore

[slow linden]

Season 7 was the most horrible,dogshit,nothing burger,annoying and awful balancing,horrendous season ever

[muted condor]

They were actually starting to recover from the fuck up that was season 3 and then killed it again

[slow linden]

I will never forgive embark for season 7

[stoic garden]

why do you hate s7 more than 8?

well i guess they did fuck up demat in favor of no skillbeam supremacy

was that also when they killed 93r and pike?

[muted condor]

Season 7 was just a huge nothing burger and season 8 fallowing that compounded into both being horrible

I guess the map was cool so there is that

[slow linden]

S8 was mid,s7 was the most harmful to the games balance,it was awful,nothing but automatics,nothing but the smelliest fuckers who's parents abandoned them played s7 at length

[stoic garden]

quite the opposite, they made it meta lol

i like how nobody gave a fuck about 93r simply because it didnt have insane ammo count

[slow linden]

S7 was literally unplayable

[stoic garden]

then embark proceeds to buff it for no reason 🔥

[muted condor]

I’m speculating next season might be in the top three worst seasons

Between the dog shit tests they dropped and promises of melee reworks fallowed by another grand major it might be enough to make me finally uninstall

[slow linden]

S3(it gave us winchclaw) s7(it was so unfun and stale that it nearly killed the game,I don't even know what the changes were I just know it was ass from playing the first 4 weeks of it)and this hypothetical next season that will either be between,above or below these,I am not looking forward to that

[hazy hemlock]

So my feelings on this even though noone asked is that they strait up keep making balance decisions based on skill issues and complaints of shit players instead of the ACTUAL game balance which makes it impossible to actually make the game feel good when things like melee keep getting fucked by the patches and people STILL complain despite the strongest melee being b tier and thats probably copium on even being that high tbh

[noble saddle]

Nah it's worse than LH1

[hazy hemlock]

Crossbow is just V10S

[stoic garden]

we know you dw

[noble saddle]

I think crossbow is about the same power level as FAMAS

[hazy hemlock]

What does this mean

[stoic garden]

u always say that, i just assume you have that mindset whenever you say anything

[hazy hemlock]

Crossbow is just medium v9s exept the hipfire is accurate up to 15m

[hazy hemlock]

Always say which part lmao is this bad

[slow linden]

Who's idea was it to make heavy nearly unplayable in cashout (unless you played Sledge) for two fucking whole weeks,who's idea was it to jumble fuck the health without rebalancing the weapons,I just want to talk to them,nice and friendly like

[stoic garden]

i find it funny how xb hipfire is so good it barely tightens at all when u crouch

[stoic garden]

that embark balances around skill issues and they have profound mental rtd, we get it

[hazy hemlock]

Can you say im wrong tho. And I dont think they are dumb I think the community is cuz devs that arent AAA studios gotta worry about player retention more

[muted condor]

Who tf decides to turn the main game mode into a test server? I’m not even playing now because of that because it’s ether play the pointless test game mode or ranked and fuck that

[hazy hemlock]

So of course more balance will be around bad people. Honestly im just glad im not a melee main atp. I can play any of the 3 classes

[hazy hemlock]

Isn't the test over as of yesterday? Also how did you feel about the changes. I personally wasn't a fan of heavy health nerf or the speed changes

[muted condor]

I haven’t been playing so I don’t know if it’s over but the changes mean absolutely nothing because it’s impossible to actually have an opinion on changes that are implemented without any forethought and no weapons balancing around the heath changes

The test was literally worthless because there is no way to get any usable info from it

[hazy hemlock]

My main issue with the changes isnt anything to do with balance tbh. My issue is having all same speeds makes everyone feel like different flavors of medium like it unironically feels like the meme of turning all classes into medium

[slow linden]

I'd rather just play ranked and deal with the mindless animals that one could call randoms there than have methed out Adderall imbued automatic weapon and v9s wielding lights that don't want to hurt their rank,and now effectively having 25 more health than they used to,and in a way doing more damage to specifically me than they used to,fuck that

[muted condor]

Well 75% of players are on medium in every match anyways so it wouldn’t change anything if they removed the other classes at this point

[muted condor]

I just hate not being able to change my gear from my reserves

[hazy hemlock]

Ay not to loud now your right but you KNOW the medium players like to play victim like that class hasn't been best in game for 8/10 seasons

[muted condor]

It makes some things unplayable because if you get unlucky and someone brought your hard counter you just lose

[slow linden]

Would sincerely rather they just did away with classes as a whole,gave everyone medium health and access to every spec,gadget and weapon(I don't want this but if my fun were ruined I'd rather everyone's be ruined,open the pandoras box of true dogshit balance)

[hazy hemlock]

I am not used to people sharing my opinion on medium. Idk what to do from here lmao. Also how did you feel about the changes

[slow linden]

What changes?

[hazy hemlock]

Speed&health

[slow linden]

The most recent patchnotes were fixes to bugged achievements,no?

[hazy hemlock]

From last week's shit

[slow linden]

I hated it only because it was that change alone,I would have liked it if the slowest ttk utility weapon in the game that only killed lights somewhat fast did NOT effectively get a nerf(flamethrower)

[muted condor]

Medium players can’t even use the defib correctly so expecting them to have the intelligence to understand balancing is pointless

[hazy hemlock]

Fair. Also there's alot of issues i have with taking dmg in spots i just wouldn't be hit in. Which effectively made it a light nerf vs the meta weapons but a buff vs the bad ones. But my main issue is genuinly that all classes shouldn't be the same speed and also heavy doewnt need to lose 25 health on top of light gaining health

[slow linden]

Rebalance the weapons,not just health and speed,doing just one or the other and that's just the balance team pretending that they're working

[stoic garden]

i'll be real i only played respec order like once, as heavy, shit kinda sucked with v9s lights everywhere 🔥

[hazy hemlock]

Im actually gonna be mad if the changes go through and everyone is the same speed. Also ive done the math already to fix the breakpoint issue they discussed to buff other weapons light only needs 165 HP heavy genuinly needs to lose nothing

[slow linden]

Heavy needed a speed buff,just a speed buff,honestly I could take it or leave it but I sure as fuck will not take it for a 25 health nerf

[hazy hemlock]

This shit is cooking me. This channel is where all the knower been hiding huh. Medium doesn't get enough hate. Mfs be hating light and heavy like medium aint been on demon time damn near every season

[muted condor]

Has anyone else noticed nobody knows how to use coins correctly this season?

[muted condor]

I hate light be as a heavy main it’s part of my religion but yeah medium is the real shitter archetype

[hazy hemlock]

They could literally have light only be 5% faster and heavy be 5% slower but we shouldn't all be same speeds. And yeah I agree. 25 health nerf is not worth. Especially with hoe medium only players get EVERY BUFF THEY ASK FOR

[slow linden]

Considering 25 or less health is the low end of the health I have left after killing a light on their more high dps options fuck respec order

[stoic garden]

kinda, but i've seen one medium evolve his gameplay from dogshit brainless to actually helping the team, doing pings, having decent aim and gadget use, almost looked like bro was replaced with an angel

[hazy hemlock]

Dog do the math light doenst need 175. Just 160-165.

[hazy hemlock]

*every season.
This season is especially bad cuz for some reason there's Hella new players tho

[slow linden]

160,I wouldn't be able to play light anymore with a permanently uneven amount of health

[muted condor]

Mfs are using coins on first cashout and staggering spawns like crazy

[hazy hemlock]

This is fair lol. Like I get it. Movement classes in EVERY GAME will get hate on but let's take the gloves off and be unbiased for like 5 minutes. Most people on the finals played overwatch for at least 2 years and claim to be decent. Yet complain about evasive dash like its the second coming of Stalin even though it's just worse tracer dash. Its not hard to track their aim is just dogshit

[muted condor]

Also mediums don’t know that team wiping is a actual strategy instead of running around for 15 seconds before inevitably dying and causing the team respawn to take 45 seconds instead of 20

[slow linden]

Yeah,coining not even first cashout but in the qualifier round at all is genuinely the most clay brained strategy devised by the rejects of humanity

[hazy hemlock]

I could stomach it cuz intervals of 5 but even 160 fixed the issue. 165 gives leeway for the super bad stuff like flamethrower to be buffed tho

[hazy hemlock]

This shit be pissing me OFF like dog I ALREADY WON THR FIGHT WHY ARE YOU RESSING YOUR TEAM AND TRYING TO FIGHT ME WHILE I MOVE THE CASHOUT YOUR STALLING IT AND FUCKING BOTH OF US

COIN YOURSELF OR WAIT FOR MY TEAM TO LEAVE SO I CAN DEPOSIT STOP FORCING ME TO HUNT YOU DOWN YOUR STAGGERING THE CASHOUT

Im on a 65 inch TV on console with aim assist turned off and able to track evasive dash fine. Why are people bitching like its uncounterable

[muted condor]

I had one guy start raging at me when I jumped off the map because I was in a 1v3 and the cash out was 1/4 of the way done

[slow linden]

How do you feel about the goo gun changes that all but three people hated and were undone but planned to be returned,couldn't stay because changing goo gun angered Goo,and thus the goo gun was restored because the game was literally collapsing in on itself without it

I sincerely hope changing goo guns stats in any way negatively is like removing the tf2 coconut,that would actually be perfect

[muted condor]

Like mf im not going to win the 1v3, they are on your statues so revives are off the table and the longer I wait to respawn all of us the less time we have to steal the cashout

[hazy hemlock]

Mixed feelings. Tldr, goo stun SHOULD be in the game but they are doing the nerfs the wrong way. Stun should be dropped to .5 seconds and easier to break when your inside. OR each subsequent stun reduces ita effectiveness until it breaks easily. I think the issue is they nerfed it which murdered people's playstyles meanwhile winch claw is still committing war crimes.

[slow linden]

Mufuckas think a heavy with anything but a minigun and a shit ton of luck,or flamethrower and burning literally every one of his own gadgets to pick off the enemy can just easy clap a 1v3,and even in the examples provided,it's not easy at all

[hazy hemlock]

Like goo gun isnt an easy spec to use by any means. Especially with how goo can sometimes behave unpredictable. But .2 second stun isnt enough time to do anything with it. Meanwhile winch moves cashboxes, is a better stun gun(which they removed) and legit garuntees a kill if you snatch someone at the start of a teamfight.

[hazy hemlock]

In before someone named mediummain6769 pulls up and says with 350 health you would be able to if you were good lmao

[stoic garden]

well i did pull off a minigun 3v1 clutch before

(they all ran at me through a doorway one by one)

[muted condor]

It’s possible but there’s a 99% chance you try and waste 10 seconds

[hazy hemlock]

Honestly the biggest issue is the amount of people that put HUNDREDS OF HOURS into the game and STILL have 0 idea how to play. Embark needs a tutorial on how to properly play and strats plus detailed guides on every class and all together it should take 30 mins to an hour to complete but upon completion you can claim any one of the old battlepasses for free. Just to motivate people to actually complete it and learn something

[slow linden]

I have plenty of minigun 3k cleanups,but not full health 1v3s,and many of them I had at least one teammate with me,they just didn't hardly get to shoot anyone,lemme find some rq

[hazy hemlock]

Lets be fr. No class is actually winning a 1v3 the way people act like its possible. And trying to attempt in most situations is jjst a waste of time lmao. Its just better to team wipe and regroup in 99% of situations

[muted condor]

When your options are:
go for the triple kill and have a 1% chance of winning but a 99% chance of wasting 10 seconds and Just jump off the edge securing that your team will be back in time for a second attack you should just jump

This also doesn’t account for you getting third partied right after winning the 1v3 anyways

[hazy hemlock]

ON GOD. I love the main game mode but DAMN do i hate no knowing whos alive on the other team so I have 0 idea if im about to get 3rd partied

[muted condor]

Exactly, I will try if there is no cashout plugged yet because the seconds don’t matter that much but once there is a cash out counting down literally ever second matters

[cerulean furnace]

I love gambling (ur real tho)

[muted condor]

LET IT RIDE

[hazy hemlock]

The only times I try is if no cashout is plugged or if its near the end of a cashout and its do or die. Or of course if im last alive and I wanna try and stall near end of match cuz we own it.

[muted condor]

Yeah, if you own the cash out that’s a bit different

[hazy hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/let-it-ride-south-park-gif-25853218

[hazy hemlock]

Me getting called a shit light/medium cuz i aint 1v3 a cashbox not even 25% complete and opting to find a gas barrel and team wipe. Honestly with how bad ranked has been and how many new players we got ive barely played ranked. Ive been diamond 3 times and they keep placing me in fuckin silver on season start. Make it make sense. 2 days ago I deadass pulled a light sniper who whole ass by end of match had a 500 combat score. This means they landed 2 god damn shots the entire round. What the fuck am I supposed to do with that

[slow linden]

Couldn't find a solo 3k,but here's some highlights and the only minigun goo combo ever,which was done with prebuff minigun @hazy hemlock @muted condor

[slow linden]

Why he no turn around 🙁 is he like 3 or something?

[sudden pewter]

I’ve started popping off with Revolver and it’s so nutty

[hazy hemlock]

@slow linden this is my proudest 3k tho fr

[hazy hemlock]

Bro idk i clipped cuz the gas part. He coulda just turned and fried my shit but he didnt lmfao. Mind you I think that was a plat match. Just an example of how BAD people are at this game but then wanna pretend their balance ideas should be listened to

[slow linden]

The only semi auto in the game that isn't a shotgun that I have respect for other people that use it

[hazy hemlock]

Isn't V9S considered semi auto?

[scarlet pine]

Dualies are probably the hardest weapon on heavy and LH1 is pretty hard to control the recoil (if you're not on controller)

[slow linden]

I don't respect people who use it,I still use it,I do not live by the same standards that I hold others to

[hazy hemlock]

Its been my fav gun in game since season 2 😭

[slow linden]

Deagles don't even feel like a pistol to use,I do find them annoying to fight though

[hazy hemlock]

Lh1 is annoying as fuck because it has the worst bloom in game. Canf even accurately shoot the mf with evasive dash. I think its the only light weapon that is just better with grappling hook

[slow linden]

It genuinely just irrationally grinds my gears to hear it and be damaged by it lmao,win or lose I hate fighting it for some reason

I'd genuinely rather fight a skilled player of a mid weapon than an ass v9s player

[hazy hemlock]

I just hate that everyone uses my gun now lowkey. Its like a bunch of freaks on my shit after its buffs. It only needed 5 more meters but as usual embark overbuffed it and now it plays completely different than pre buff.

[slow linden]

I played it season 6,but I didn't even play light a whole lot till then

[hazy hemlock]

Tbh ive been considering maining TKs on light. M11 is super boring, lh1 is meh cuz I dont wanna use grapple and if I dont main TKs I might genuinly be a medium main til they figure out how to balance light cuz almost everything on the class is jsut a worse medium. AGAIN

[slow linden]

I look to winch flame players like they are sick animals that must be put to death

[hazy hemlock]

I have almost 2k hours in game and im certain 1k of those were me mastering v9s. Still like the gun but its just not as satisfying to use post buff. Idk maybe I'll give it another shot but ive been enjoying tks this season. Also I think when they messed everything up during last week's patch they may have fixed some of tks hitreg problem cuz I havent had a noreg on them in days

[hazy hemlock]

Remove flame from that just say winch

[slow linden]

Winchclaw is one crime,touching an artifact of the church with parasite infested hands is unforgivable

[hazy hemlock]

Honestly thinking about V9S the lower dmg but higher range IMO removed the skill expression of the gun. It was like a more versatile higher skill floor m11 before and now it plays like a mid range lh1. Its range falloff started at 5m before it just needed to be buffed to 15m but they settled on 20 which was way to high. But instead of dropping range further they dropped dmg and I was like eh

[hazy hemlock]

OK ngl this got an ugly laugh outta me

[slow linden]

I'm dead serious

[hazy hemlock]

So i take it your a flamethrower enthusiast 😂

Nah I feel that. Seeing all these lights run MY gun. The V9S when they weren't there before annoys tf outta me.

Maybe I'll do tks they pretty expressive and let me focus on the classes movement

[slow linden]

It is only meant to be used with goo gun,any other spec is a waste,winchclaw isn't just a waste but it is a disrespect to flamethrower to use it with flamethrower

[hazy hemlock]

Goo flamethrower hmm

[late bloom]

I feel like you go for mesh

[hazy hemlock]

What makes you say that ive never heard that and now im curious

@late bloom hes a flamethrower specialist so im inclined to believe em

[late bloom]

I assume the benefit of goo flame is that if you burn them while they're goo locked the burning goo contributes a little extra damage before it pops

but I do agree that winch flame is troglophilic

[slow linden]

Why would I ever lower myself to use anything else with flamethrower

[hazy hemlock]

OK ngl that 1st clip was smooth as fuck

[slow linden]

My personal favorite

[slow linden]

You'll like this one

[hazy hemlock]

The way you swap between them is so smooth thats crazy. Won't lie im convinced lmao

[slow linden]

I used to be much better,very consistent with it,I did not clip back then,have like no clips older than s4

I pioneered goo flame in the open beta,perfected it in season 3

[hazy hemlock]

Yeah im convinced ill make full swap to tks. Im jsut a fan of more skill expressive shit. I only run meta shit on my movement medium lmao everything else is off meta.

[slow linden]

Tks?

[hazy hemlock]

Throwing knives

V9S lost its skill expression cuz its "buff" after everything was basically a full on rework.

[slow linden]

Ah,they are a favored light weapon of mine,but I main grapple db on light and play a lot of cloak,if I'm not playing db I'm always on cloak,if I'm on db there's a 50% chance I'm on cloak,and I run vanish with cloak so I just have double cloak

[hazy hemlock]

I use,
Dash(open beta dash user)
Sonar nade
Thermal bore
H+
Was v9s but I havent found it as satisfying. Had fun with tks. Might go to those cuz tbh most weapons on light make me feel like I may as well be playing medium atm

[slow linden]

On medium I main cerb,play riot often,would main revolver or cl40 if I had the patience to learn and commit to them

[hazy hemlock]

Revolver isnt that hard tbh. I main gamas on med. If the other teams seem more brawl oriented I'll use p90. Cuz whoever told me that weapon is bad is a MF LIAR

[slow linden]

I use tracking dart,vanish and my thirds a flex slot that I kinda throw anything into

[hazy hemlock]

P90 would be strong on light thats how I know its good. Its ALMOST m11 dmg but has xp54 range

[slow linden]

Sometimes I play gas grenade,frag grenade,Pyro grenade on light

[hazy hemlock]

Not the triple nade

[slow linden]

Usually with throwing knives

[stoic garden]

the max falloff damage lets you molest mesh shields from anywhere on the map very well (i've been a victim of this far too often)

[hazy hemlock]

Why. Thats just the im greifing so you dont have fun loadout

[hazy hemlock]

Im convinced people try to gaslight and say p90 is bad only cuz mediums want their class to be unchallengable. That gun would be a top 5 light gun.

[stoic garden]

idk why fellas say p90 is bad, maybe it's because they cant just play it exactly like fcar

i will admit that the reload time turns me off, but it's a pretty goated gun all things considered

[slow linden]

Medium mains can't aim unless the game does it for them so the 4 bullets that they do hit is their perceived dps

[hazy hemlock]

Literally just dont be in a bad spot😭 reload time is where good positioning comes in lmao

[stoic garden]

no i'm just too pampered by fcar reload bro

i even main lewis gun, shit has a longer reload

(though it has way more damage per mag)

[hazy hemlock]

Lets not forget famas btw. That broken gun stays getting overshadowed by over broken guns but its never been outside top 5 medium weapons since its first buff

[stoic garden]

i LOVE famas tac reload...

[hazy hemlock]

This shit is so real. Someone lazily drifts to the right and they are cooked

[stoic garden]

but you see, i have tactical tango reload on fcar, which makes it superior

[hazy hemlock]

😂😂😂

[stoic garden]

it's hilarious that i just end up enjoying any gun on which i have reload cosmetics of

[muted condor]

I like my cerb reload

[stoic garden]

haptic reload on lewis

[muted condor]

The best part of last season was the battle pass cerb reload

[slow linden]

I still am hesitant to buy s7 because of how dogshit that season was

[stoic garden]

the fire thingy reload feels kind bad to me considering how long it takes to reload, i love hearing the sizzle when shooting cerb tho

[stoic garden]

you have to admit it had actually decent stuff on it though

[slow linden]

And the cerb and flamethrower skins,s9 was a good season for arson mains

[stoic garden]

good thing bonus pages 9/10 are just mid as fuck with some goofy ass reskins

and i wouldn't buy ultimate pass ever

[muted condor]

I still think season two is one of the best

[stoic garden]

i'm a big fan of s1 pass tbh, dont really vibe with most things s2 gave, and i'm f2p so i couldn't get the amazing bonus pages vaiiya guns back then

[slow linden]

Vaiiya is one of my favorite sponsors,I am not doubting the stuff In there is cool,it's a matter of principles

[stoic garden]

embark lives on fomo apparently

have y'all seen this? a 24 hour time limited circuit for a decent v9s skin that's probably never coming back btw

[slow linden]

10s second bonus page good,first mid

[muted condor]

The new stuff is cool but doesn’t feel like the Finals to me for some reason

[stoic garden]

i honestly didnt give a fuck so i skipped it

[muted condor]

It might just be me but I feel like the game had a much better personality to the cosmetics and seasons back then

[stoic garden]

like when they dropped heaven or hell and the guns had holtowslop on them unlike the original ones

[slow linden]

I did this shit on accident when it came out and didn't even notice it gave a v9s skin until now

[stoic garden]

i got some random ass pants a few days ago, might be another of those 24h circuits

lowkey terrible practice, why try to boost player retention with a 24h time limited thingy, atp add the wheel back lmfao

but anyway, i'll go shower

[alpine oak]

Where is the thermal imaging device😭😭😭

[muted condor]

Gone for ever

[slow linden]

These 4 challenges have been there for a week

[stoic garden]

are you really sure

still, i think they should just put that shit on a separate circuit 😭

[slow linden]

Yeah,they must've ham fisted the v9s in last second,I genuinely don't remember it

[alpine oak]

Why??? I loved it

[slow linden]

It was a useless gadget that hard countered a mediocre spec and a substance only a low pickrate gadget and barrels could produce,it didn't belong