💣┇weapons-gadgets

[sudden pewter]

So with all this in mind I totally get why changes to specs as a whole have been slow. All the more reason not to add new ones until we figure this shit out

Still frustrating Embark has communicated absolutely nothing about what they plan to do, if anything

[stoic garden]

and they aint even using time limited events to test tweaked specs or weapons

[serene glade]

when was the last unique LTM

[unkempt moss]

They have the answer to turret fix right on my computer tbh.

[stoic garden]

that event with reworked sledge m1 and shit

or blast off i guess

no wait the halloween one, i completely ignored it

[unkempt moss]

If they reduced the sound cloak makes would it be a good buff or nah?

[sudden pewter]

Heaven or Else, where they tested changes to spear spin

[stoic garden]

im somewhat fine with it being loud as shit for now, i really just want it to be not killed by cosmetics and be fully invis when still

making less noise would be cool too i guess, but it's so visible when moving it wouldn't do too much in most situations imo

[unkempt moss]

I'm not really a balance guy.

It just seems like it's weird to make it easy to see and hear coming

[stoic garden]

and if you're out of line of sight just decloak and let that shit recharge while you sneak there normally- oh wait 0,5s delay before cloak actually works

[sudden pewter]

The sound is a necessary counterbalance because it limits mobility while cloaked, while cloaked cosmetics should be set to a baseline with no jigglebones though as that’s generally what gives them away

[stoic garden]

you cant play c4 cuz yours jiggle too much

[unkempt moss]

I'm surprised they don't just model swap for invis

[sudden pewter]

(If they’re going to cloak and run around, why bother cloaking)

[sudden pewter]

I’m surprised that hasn’t been implemented yet. It seems like such an obvious fix

[serene glade]

full invis, full silence, but every so often it flickers and shows you completely with like a staticy sound. you can shoot and hold invis while shooting, but any damage breaks it completely

[unkempt moss]

Does nullifier keep your model?

[stoic garden]

my line of thought for this would be "dash lets you get out of bad situations, cloak lets you avoid them entirely at the cost of having no extra mobility from cloak or grapple"

[unkempt moss]

There should be a 1/1000 chance It fails and only your pants cloak

[serene glade]

the whole arena laughs at you, and your contestant takes their VR headset off and leaves the game

then you follow your contestant home to their shack under the highway because thats who would voluntarily choose to play light

[stoic garden]

the envoy of truth

[unkempt moss]

The fool who cloaked his pants

[stoic garden]

@random depot pull up

[serene glade]

maybe the buffs and nerfs are the friends we made along the way

[sudden pewter]

Full Invis would require a decloak of some measure as being truly invisible with 0 downside and no potential reaction time in an engagement would be insane

[unkempt moss]

Ive only received nerfs then

[serene glade]

yeah i realized that as i said it. but like idk let me spitball dumb ideas every now and then

[sudden pewter]

Dash needs longer CD or to lose all vertical mobility, as that’s the domain of Grapple

[unkempt moss]

Is it early spring yet

[serene glade]

whens late spring

[unkempt moss]

March 18

[serene glade]

that would be so sick

[unkempt moss]

Double drop with a fat balance patch.

[serene glade]

https://tenor.com/view/street-fighter-sf6-ingrid-sf-ingrid-sf-gif-2463745461871370904

[sudden pewter]

We’re going to get more white woman fashion and a texture swap skin.

[serene glade]

shes gotta drop before evo

[sudden pewter]

I’m praying on my hands and knees for Eclipse Shade KS23

Or god forbid, more animation bundles. My favorite 😍

[unkempt moss]

Oh SF6 has big balance patch in march. Actual big, not embark big i hope

[sudden pewter]

9.9?

[serene glade]

thats way too big

[unkempt moss]

Alex.0

[sudden pewter]

Patch 9.9

[unkempt moss]

Me on left, catter on right telling me gouf sucks

[unkempt moss]

Do you actually like animation bundles

[compact tundra]

Oh guys, I've been trying to play weapons outside my comfort zone and got a pretty good ARN clip last night. I typically avoid headshot autos like the plague but I've been easing into it with lewis and M11 and I've recently been trying out the others (ARN, XP-54, F-Car, AKM, ECT...)

[sudden pewter]

It’s hands down my favorite additions to the game outside new weapons or gadgets. Genuinely.

[unkempt moss]

They are cool

[serene glade]

theyve been getting really lazy with them lately it feels like

[sudden pewter]

Hopefully we get better Shak draw animations because the most recent covers 2/3 of your fucking screen

[serene glade]

the snapping finger reload thing or whatever

[sudden pewter]

I like any VR reload.

[unkempt moss]

I'm still waiting for my weapon skin series. They are close with the toy skin I just dont like the colors.

[sudden pewter]

I want eclipse shade so bad

[serene glade]

i want orf sponsorship, but only for me

[unkempt moss]

I want nerf eclipse shade. The blue and orange, with all the nerf darts and gadgets hanging off of it.

[sudden pewter]

It’s my favorite skin series because I’m a filthy Tacticool Larper

[unkempt moss]

Gears of War has nerf skins and ive been addicted ever since.

Did you ever finish your concept of the ES zipline?

Googs wont tacticool larp with me. He says it sucks, but i think it's badass.

This is the same guy that ruined the fire larp with a primary colors astronaut tho

[serene glade]

it was a cool astronaut

i dont even remember my thought process for it ngl

[unkempt moss]

Fire retardant suit

[serene glade]

you could say that again

[sudden pewter]

I started outlining the Lewis Gun instead because I’m desperate for a Lewie without the ugly fucking Bipod and instead has a sick fucking carry strap and it’s very poorly made

[unkempt moss]

Let's see it

[sudden pewter]

I’m at work and don’t have access to my personal files

[unkempt moss]

Have it on my desk by the end of the week

[sudden pewter]

It’s like 1/3 outlined and I haven’t even poorly drawn the new barrel shroud yet

Tbf the barrel shroud could remain the same, just new materials and a carry strap instead of the Bipod and I’d be more than happy

[unkempt moss]

Why no bipod

[sudden pewter]

You upset me kitten.

[analog pewter]

terminal attack stunk

[unkempt moss]

I just want to help that guy out. Hes very dedicated.

I usually just copy bad takes and signal boost them

[sudden pewter]

Sound it makes is annoying and visually an eyesore. The M60 also has it and I’d like the two weapons to be even more visually distinct

A carry strap would make me blow fat ropes

[unkempt moss]

Embark wants them more similar though.

I fixed my post for you

[sudden pewter]

For the eclipse shade KS23 Id like the shells to be the same as the “Slug Life” charm. Since it’s an eclipse shade charm/skin and the KS23 fires slugs.

The current slugs are just giant beige shells.

[unkempt moss]

Ill have to look at them

I haven't played in a while now.

Its been very freeing

[sudden pewter]

I enjoyed my break while in Vegas but I’ve certainly gotten rusty. (That or because I was playing at 11pm)

My aim was ass and I noticed immediately while using the Model.

I need to use Kovaaks to warmup more often

[unkempt moss]

Do you think they drop anything of note tomorrow? Besides bank it.

[sudden pewter]

Tomorrow isn’t 9.9 is it?

[unkempt moss]

Do you not like the bot shooting gallery?

[sudden pewter]

Supposedly it should arrive with the much awaited balance changes, alongside Bank It

[sudden pewter]

Personally I’m happy it’s there but Kovaaks offers much more intensive of a practice regimen.

[sudden pewter]

Sexellent, so tomorrow

Hopefully an actual Valentines reward wheel or bounty of some sort. (No free rewards yet) alongside the Bank It LTM.

And naturally I’d like to see animations or decent weapon skins/drip.

[unkempt moss]

Oh its only limited time?

[sudden pewter]

No confirmation, just my assumption

[unkempt moss]

We'll find out.

So this is our big mid-season patch

It would be funny if bank it didnt come back they just needed a pun

[serene glade]

which weapon is getting the ads speed nerf tomorrow

[unkempt moss]

Titan

I submitted the gouf beta patch to them. So hopefully we see some of those.

[serene glade]

someone should submit to bevmo to carry the beer i want no cap

[unkempt moss]

Total wine?

[serene glade]

i think total wine has it yeah, ill have to make the drive over there. bevmo is such a let down its insane

[unkempt moss]

More like Bevno

[sudden pewter]

I don’t foresee any permanent game modes being added in the foreseeable future. TA and Bank It’s removal were likely what opened space for Point Break, but I could be proven wrong

Embark seems to have reasons not to add any new *permanent gamemodes if Oscars comment on a mixed queue being not on the table is to be taken at face value

Though that was from Heavy Hitters and things may have changed

[analog pewter]

they need to make longer modes reward more wt points though like seriously
i think the only time PB should be 2/4 points is if you win/lose in phase 1. each phase should add 1/2 points for l/w (3/6 and 4/8)

in theory you could argue this would incentivize the defending team to let the attacking team take phase 1 and 2, but the math doesn't work out if they end up losing on phase 3 because the reward for losing is only the same as the reward for winning phase 1, so it'd only be viable for teams very confident they can sacrifice phases 1 and 2
and honestly i think that's a cool wt score metagame

attacker psychology is unaffected cause they can only win if they make it all the way anyways

[sudden pewter]

I don’t believe anything related to assigning defender/attacker needs to change, and supposedly there’s an internal timer that awards tokens based on time spent in matches

I would however like to see PointBreak flip when a victory condition is reached. That way players can be both defender and attacker in a single match

[analog pewter]

yo cool bug heavy lookin kinda nice with the bow

[sudden pewter]

Crossbow for Heavy or a Javelin would go hard

[chilly granite]

@unkempt moss last game I swapped gateway for sonar and it was an upgrade

[sudden pewter]

This is the type of shit I’m talking about. If it isn’t a victim complex it’s us vs them.

[rare arch]

Crazy to see that

[indigo nexus]

Ludicrous

@magic lily how does one build an opinion so extreme? I don’t know if some of it is intended to be hyperbole but the idea that a class in a game like this could ever get by effectively with zero strategy is just insane, teamplay is so important and lights aren’t exactly set to win most fights they mindlessly take on their own. The class that dies in half a second is not by any means not punishing as there are so many circumstances that will just kill them, and they are the least poised to survive running headfirst into a decent team.

Lights who do have poor teamplay are probably the most common thing you see solo-queuers complain about due to how ineffective they are in the team!

At least when it’s a heavy, you can play around them as they don’t move faster than you do. They might be just as directionless but you can at least play around it.

[analog pewter]

he just lost a match to a good light player and isnt thinking coherently

[compact tundra]

Crossbow for medium, javelin for heavy

That big fuck could probably throw like star quarterback

[unkempt moss]

This is just the natural state of video games I thought.

Its not like a 6 hour cooldown will allow discussion of any sort.

[indigo nexus]

Not directly related, one of my most recent ranked games I did have a light in the team who just didn’t think about what they were doing, they were unusually self aware and kept apologising but they threw the final fight of the tournament by literally taking on a 1v3 flat fight with the other team before we could engage. It was kind of crazy, it was in a literal sense all three of the enemy team members in an area with no cover, fought from a position of no cover, with no way for teammates to engage quickly.

[analog pewter]

slingshot for medium

[compact tundra]

I'm sorry but slingshot feels like a light weapon. Now a neolithic sling David v Goliath style, that's a medium weapon

Heavy gets a potato cannon

[analog pewter]

light already has the bow give medium the slingshot NOW

left click charges a single heavy stone, right click charges a shotgun blast of pebbles

[compact tundra]

Actually now that I'm thinking about it the slingshot would be more like a dmr style weapon, while the sling would be more a sniper style, so yea, light gets sling, medium gets slingshot

[unkempt moss]

Here we go. Time to get my money's worth.

[compact tundra]

Damn straight, sausage-sama, time to defend your honor and more importantly our entertainment, please bro I'm bored at work rn

[sudden pewter]

He stopped typing 🙁

Peaceful I saw you, press enter. I wanna see the raw unfiltered emotion that brought you here

[compact tundra]

Bro probably got temp banned for a naughty word 😭

[unkempt moss]

Rage vs CPU. Let it rip, bud.

[indigo nexus]

You guys are really hyping this up

[unkempt moss]

Yeah I love when people get brought in from feed back

[serene glade]

🍿

[unkempt moss]

Its like when the two wrestling things would come together.

WWF vs RAW

[compact tundra]

I feel like the kids surrounding you two at the playground chanting fight! fight! fight!

[sudden pewter]

I can’t imagine feeling so strongly that Light goes unpunished where what seems like 90% of the playerbase exclaim Light is too weak because they’re so prone to punishment

[serene glade]

Hugo is not coming. (What a fucking shame)

[sudden pewter]

Sure they occasionally escape because they spam goo nades or use the nullifier and it can certainly be frustrating but they’re made of glass

[unkempt moss]

Brother its only a 15 second cooldown. Just send and keep going.

[unkempt moss]

Play your gief

[magic lily]

I understand. I’m saying that the issue is lights abilities strengthen their weapons, while the weapons are already strong. Their abilities also double as escape tools that allow them to disengage if they mess up, or they can be aggressive if they feel like it. Almost all their tools are higher tier. Medium and heavy are essentially stuck and limited at the same time. They have a couple good tools here and there. Maybe if you squint you could say heavy can run away using charge but they can’t use their weapons WHILE doing it like light. The reshaper is situational. Yes invisibility turns off, but dash doesn’t. I’m not saying nerf the hell out of light. I’m saying they need to require more team play like the other 2 builds do to be successful. Light has the option to spam. The other 2 builds don’t. You can have a kill farming light that just does whatever, and the other builds on the team suffer from that unless the situation is right and they can survive it. Light also has better weapons from distance so if they want to play away from the fight they can dictate from a distance as an option like with sniper. When you play as medium like I do or as a heavy it makes it hard to enjoy bc you can be taken out instantly at any time in 1-2 shots. You can barely counter play light unless they’re reckless. Dash and dagger one hit from behind you’re dead watching the game for 30 seconds. I see that happen to people all the time. Medium you have to nearly unload all your ammo just to take down light and heavy you have to use it all and reload unless you nail every head shot. Yes light hit power is lowest but that’s doesn’t balance things out. That’s all I’m saying. Whenever I say something about everyone’s precious light build they take it as a personal attack. It’s a common issue that’s people who spend time with this game have and that’s valid. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

[unkempt moss]

Get his ass!

[serene glade]

Yeah I'm not reading all that

[compact tundra]

Boooooo, not angry enough, why are you respectful and actually thinking, I wanna see a crash out not a properly articulated opinion. Boooooo

[magic lily]

Listen I play the game in my free-time. I don’t care THAT much

[sudden pewter]

I’m going through it and I’m having trouble identifying what the actual issue is

[magic lily]

Well ya bc you probably play light and play blind to it like embark bc its not annoying to you

[unkempt moss]

There we go.

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1196056960223674411/1400998710065893518/attachment.gif

[unkempt moss]

Finally taking some swings

[sudden pewter]

I mean he admitted his experience is surface level, we can’t fault him for being wrong

Light is simultaneously the weakest and strongest of the three archetypes

[unkempt moss]

SAUSAGE is about to bust on this dude.

God I need Alex to come out. I need a competitive game to get this feeling from instead of discord.

[sudden pewter]

Alex? From Minecraft?

[serene glade]

Alex from Minecraft is unfortunately playable already in super smash brothers for the Nintendo switch

[compact tundra]

So uh quick question, what servers do you play on and what's device. Like are you EU/PC, NA/Xbox, Asia/PS?

[sudden pewter]

I can smell the stink of console in our midst

[unkempt moss]

Why does catter purposely antagonize me?

[compact tundra]

Well he mentioned having to dump an entire mag into lights with heavy and medium, which makes no sense to me, so I wanted to see

1. If he could give kovak scores
2. If he's in a bad server region like oceana or South Africa

[sudden pewter]

This screams console to me

Second class citizens of gaming

[magic lily]

Hey man you don’t have to type all that. I’m not gonna read it but I appreciate it again. I’m sure you know what you’re talking about. Just was agreeing with dude earlier.

[indigo nexus]

“lights abilities strengthen their weapons” - differently to other classes? How?

Their abilities are indeed good for escaping, but their body on its own really sucks for escaping. If they mess up there’s a good chance they are immediately dead, much larger than for any other class. I wouldn’t claim that the overall state of this surely swings one way or another and I’m sure it varies with skill level, but I definitely can’t agree with the implication that it clearly goes one way.
I think a key concept here that I’m not sure you are acknowledging is, escaping from death is not in general a matter of distancing yourself from the enemy (if it were I think you’d have a stronger point), it’s more often about surviving to recuperate your team’s “stance”, to mitigate the damage that any mistake cost you, which is mechanically very different. Demat, healbeam, defibs, barricades, mesh, dome shields, goo nades, these all serve this function very well. Movement is not everything!

I’d probably argue that heavy was the least reliant on teamplay and light the most in my experience, but I wouldn’t argue that fiercely as I’m not sure on it. As a light you have a responsibility to position yourself well with regard to your team because they can’t compensate for it if you’re just doing your own thing, and light’s best gadgets are mostly utility and team-fight focused - I would argue heavy is the actual class with “selfish” combat gadgets being its most powerful assets. A light who was not coordinating with their team will die almost immediately to a coordinated enemy team because they just can’t survive when the focus is on them, they need to be subversive.

Dagger is, er, an awkward one, I would be willing to yield that just for the sake of convenience with how weird that thing’s role is. It sucks, but a skilled dagger light might have a very different playstyle to a usual one.

(I’m not done yet, running into discord character limit)

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182330475386261536/1471025910214955162/No.mp4?ex=698d6f23&is=698c1da3&hm=bdfb7801dfc57ca9ae8d504409fce2560cebded2f9b2bbaa414cce75eedd0d01&

[indigo nexus]

Having good range control does not seem to back up your stance from my viewpoint, as (prerequisite: assuming that light is not generally more powerful than other classes) that is a responsibility that requires skill to employ correctly. With heavies being what they are, this factor also becomes punishing when fights are prone to devolving into brawls around objectives.

Your comment about ammo seems nonsensical unless you’re implicitly deciding that it’s because the light is dodging like 80% of the shots with dash.

Thanks for the substantial response though

[unkempt moss]

Brother said im not done yet like he was about to spend 3 bar

[indigo nexus]

the character limit thing was looking kind of weird

[unkempt moss]

Begging for mercy

Question is, does he respond?

Did Norcomma die?

[chilly granite]

new rank pb with the bois

null/frag/sonar seems great

the dualblades/demat and pyro player both really benefit from sonar

[magic lily]

Thanks again. All reasonable feedback. Don’t entirely agree for what I think about the game but glad to have the conversation. Overall I think embark could do better. Take it easy!

[broken mulch]

heavy has the best gadgets rn, light usually dies first in fights if u trade bullet for bullet

admittedly its harder to hit lights

but i dont think light is all that much of a problem rn

it is notable that so many people dislike fighting light tho

nobody really complains about dying to a heavy and i rarely see people complaining abt medium outside the repeater

[unkempt moss]

Damn, you're right outside of plat.

[chilly granite]

Mediums weapons are all extremely effective against light

Complaint about sr84 when repeater exists is a super weird take

Dash lights are annoying because dash is overtuned, but lights weapons are bad enough that they're all basically mathematical losses if you don't have a movement or position advantage

[unkempt moss]

He's not an alleycat, bowkun. He's not the type to throw down in wNg

[chilly granite]

Hahaha

But yeah if your using most of your mag to kill a light, that's a skill issue

I'm not saying it's a low skill issue, it's fucking hard to hit lights, but the skill floor for hitting a dash light is too high in my opinion

But lights gadgets are overtuned because lights hp is undetuned

Id you struggle with lights, play mines and turret lol

[broken mulch]

gonna try grapple sword even if its ass cause i js rewatched aot

[unkempt moss]

He used feedback for its main use. Getting smoked in rank and exploding on embark about it. Happens to the best of em.

[broken mulch]

why do we even have feedback

its not like they read it

[chilly granite]

I have some insane clips

I split water in my keyboard and then did a batshit clutch

[unkempt moss]

Its to get your frustrations out and pretend like they do.

Let's see those clips Bowregard

[chilly granite]

my heavy hit plat btw

[unkempt moss]

Carrying

[chilly granite]

I probably would've too, but we played some games without the dual blades at the start of the day, so we lost some mmr

72 gigs of footager playing with the boys

4 hours of playing roughly lmao

one clip to sum up my expeirence trying to use h+

[broken mulch]

what do you use to move?

cause w is ur interact key apparently

[chilly granite]

esdf

it's an old quake thing, it gives you more keys on the left side so yuo can bind all your weapons to your pinky

it's also nice since you keep fingers correctly aligned for touch type

[copper loom]

What is the best gun for light

[chilly granite]

if you're an alpha male, bow

if you're a beta, arn

if you're a meta slave, m11

my positioning doesn't usually enable me to have continaul line of sight on the two melee bois, so h+ tends to be low value lol

it's really hard to do so when you use grapple, as you're gonna often be in a position where your'e much more vunlerable

[broken mulch]

dagger trust

[compact tundra]

It's not ass, it's peak trust

As a grapple sword main, grapple sword is peak sword. If you're good enough at super lunging what do you need dash for? dash is built into the weapon

[chilly granite]

LOL repeater players suck

people like this dude are why embark hasn't nerfed it yet

@unkempt moss I got a whole cashout dunk+defense coming, but handbrake will take a hot min

[unkempt moss]

Wtf is handbrake

[chilly granite]

video compressing tool

I wanted to quickmelee but I'm bad at it lol

we won the box anyway, dual blades finished him off - won the game entirely

[compact tundra]

That tree hurt my soul

I felt that one

[chilly granite]

hahahahh

[unkempt moss]

If you have a trio I expect you to hit diamond now.

[chilly granite]

this was directly after I spilled water on my desk lol, I had a bunch of dusting cloth on my desk/under my arm to soak it up lmao

[unkempt moss]

Disgusting bow play here

[chilly granite]

unfortunately the medium managed to revive his team and we played the followup badly so we got eliminated

I should've bailed when I realized the had gotten revive and used null to deny steal

[unkempt moss]

got me wanting to try bow

[chilly granite]

I got some great clips from my last game but clipping is a pain in the ass haha

let me just dump the whole ass vod on youtube hahah

I think one of those clips is a good reason for me to skip gateway lol, i'm kinda ass at using it lol

https://youtu.be/cbSk7u-Zad0

it needs 40mins or so to cook

@unkempt moss

https://youtube.com/shorts/bAc_rp2DGVA?si=0zdDArwClXRs8Dn_

Spear buff? Melee rework? Real changes? Or just skins KEKW

[unkempt moss]

is this the shillery for this week?

[chilly granite]

Lol

[chilly granite]

I will say, flamethrower makes winch seem quite balanced

Which makes me think that flamethrower just needs straight buffs

[sour geyser]

Which lewis skin is better, i wanna get one

1. Season 1 rouleete skin
2. projectors cut
3. loop (the rollercoaster one)

[chilly granite]

Roulette but you'll find people who care more about skins in heavy main or drip check

[sour geyser]

theres a drip check channel?

oo i see it now thanks

[chilly granite]

@unkempt moss Kyoto vid has loaded

[unkempt moss]

Ill watch in a bit here. Working on a map.

[chilly granite]

No worries I'm tryna sleep so I can wake up for patch tomorrow

I think I'm generally playing decently, I just need to improve my consistency, in positioning, aim, and gadget usage

Like sometimes they're all working at the same time and sometimes I just massively failfish one of them and do nothing because of it

Usually positioning, but that's mostly just practice and getting used to cashout maps

I need to work on not letting pressure affect my aim too

[unkempt moss]

Do you want me to take some note or just give you a general overview of my thoughts?

[chilly granite]

If there's a specific example of something you see me doing really badly, I'd appreciate a timestamp

But a general overview is fine

Depends on how bad it is hahaha

[serene glade]

[unkempt moss]

??

[slow linden]

My trio is a little bitch and doesn't want to play ranked,my duo is willing to but I'm not duo queueing ranked

I'm not even solo queueing that's just purely awful for the soul

[glass pecan]

please Embark when does the Thermal Vision gadget for light returns

[unkempt moss]

Duo queue will make you strong

[slow linden]

But it will not get me anywhere past gold(maybe) in just one season of play

[unkempt moss]

If you think like that it won't.

[slow linden]

I don't think,I know,thinking is a waste of energy,thinking too much causes mistakes

Mistakes are bad

[unkempt moss]

Listen, if Googs and I can make MGL+dagger work in one season to make it from like 12000 up to plat, then I know you can.

We did it in like two weeks of just being jackasses.

[glass pecan]

are you na or eu?

[unkempt moss]

I know we have higher game sense than plat, but we were learning brand new stuff this season out of boredom.

NA.

[glass pecan]

and why would u choose alfa acta?

[unkempt moss]

I didn't?

[glass pecan]

top sponsors are Ospuze (my fav), Holtow, Engimo, Volple and kinda CNS

[unkempt moss]

I'm officially Sponsored by Dissun

[glass pecan]

not u

[slow linden]

Because they are morally the best faction

[unkempt moss]

Ah. Sorry for speaking.

[slow linden]

Also their drip looks sick

[glass pecan]

im talking to drywall

[glass pecan]

nahh

the most morally right are volpe

[slow linden]

Turning home invaders into paste is the right thing to do,volpe aren't bad though

[glass pecan]

but are u NA or EU?

[slow linden]

NA

[glass pecan]

whaaaa... who did it?

[slow linden]

Alpha acta is a home defense company that sells everything from advanced sensors and surveillance equipment to firearms

The alfa acta minigun is one of their actual products,not just something they put in the finals to look cool like the ospooze grenade launchers and stuff

[glass pecan]

keep your mouth from my ospuzy moozy

and lemme have my opsuzy uzi

ospuze is the the best and u can't prove me wrong

(because I've already drank it and if I'll stop I'll have skin disattachment syndrome)

[muted condor]

Buying a minigun for home defense as the founding fathers intended

[unkempt moss]

Where have you been?

[glass pecan]

hey my 'spuze man!

[glass pecan]

me?

[muted condor]

Work, sick, and having a complete deconstruction of my personal beliefs and way of thinking

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-heavy-the-finals-heavy-minigun-ospuze-gif-15170018965766296889

[unkempt moss]

Elaborate.

[glass pecan]

hey how do I comment an emoji to images/videos/gifs?

[muted condor]

I might be moving departments at work so I was out in the field for all of Tuesday, was sick all of today while at work, and for the past year and a half Iv been having a deconstruction of faith that has really come to a head this past couple of weeks and filling a lot of my free time with self contemplation and studying

[unkempt moss]

Oh you must have read through that copy of the gouf patch I sent you. Im glad you enjoyed it.

[unkempt moss]

What faith and what deconstruction happened?

[muted condor]

You need a higher server level. Just talk and it will go up

[slow linden]

You're god damn right

[muted condor]

Christian and Iv just started to have problems with a lot of the core ideas and finding out stuff about the Bible that they don’t really like to tell you at church

[unkempt moss]

I'd like to know what those things are.

[glass pecan]

what color do I need to be

[muted condor]

I don’t remember tbh

[unkempt moss]

I spent a lot of time away from my faith because of the church. The people that attended.

I think it varies by channel. Red in here.

[muted condor]

One of the big ones is the bad translations in the Bible along with how little we actually know about the people that wrote parts of it. A good amount of the New Testament was written by completely unknown sources that were mistaken to have been written by the disciples and Paul.
The biggest reason is I don’t believe God could be good and the Bible be true at the same time.

The idea of a omnipotent God can not coexist with free will which means everyone was predestined to make every action and to ether go to heaven or hell with zero choice if God is real

[slow linden]

This is what I came to #💣┇weapons-gadgets for

Absolutely beautiful,keep up the great work ladies and gentlemen

[muted condor]

Best channel around

[unkempt moss]

I definitely understand these questions. I wont claim to have the answers, but I do have thoughts on it. I do have a couple questions though. Do you want to keep your faith, truthfully? Also, do you belive the words that Jesus said in the Bible are accurate? Just those, nothing else.

[slow linden]

Agreed

[muted condor]

I used to want to keep my faith but I don’t really anymore. I found a quote the really stuck with me and is basically what iv decided to live by.
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just then they will not care how devoted you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods ,but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

I believe Jesus was someone that did exist but if he was actually the son of god or if his real words have been properly preserved to the modern day there’s no way to actually know.

[unkempt moss]

Its hard to get over the hurdle of not wanting to keep it. I will say, the deeper I got in to philosophy and other religions when trying to figure things on my own, the harder it is to live a decent life.

Its not impossible, but religion surely makes crossing the is-ought divide much easier.

[muted condor]

My current way of living isn’t really to do as much good as possible but to live life to the best of my ability and not cause harm to others. At the end of the day I think it’s more important to not do that bad thing than to do the good thing

[unkempt moss]

I settled on what i call Budeo Christian. My disconnect from the church sent me to Zen Buddhism. If you want a non-theistic religion start there. It sounds like its right up your alley, as its entirely about understanding life is suffering, and we only need do everything we can to limit the suffering of life.

However, it doesnt answer the main questions of why. And it doesnt try to.

[muted condor]

Iv kinda settled on Agnosticism for now. I’m still looking at new ideas and world views but the experience has greatly opened my mind to a lot of stuff

[unkempt moss]

Thats the beauty of philosophy. Everyone has to make the same journey with different ends.

[muted condor]

I do have to get some sleep now so I’m not dead before work tomorrow

[unkempt moss]

I will say, even non believers remember God's name when they stare down the barrel of life. So don't be afraid to keep in touch, even if your faith is shaken.

Worst case youre just talking to yourself out there.

[muted condor]

I’m just afraid to tell any of the Christians I know I’m becoming agnostic because of the horror stories Iv heard

[unkempt moss]

Jesus didnt go to the good Christians to spread his love. He went to the worst and most helpless. If they judge you for shaken faith then they need to do some real thinking about their own. Their judgment means nothing. If you truly dont believe in god then their judgment is empty because there is nothing behind it. If you do, then you understand that the only judgment you need to worry about is that of the Father.

[slow linden]

Honestly don't tell anyone anything that you don't really need or want to,nothing wrong with having secrets

Self damage is fine,doubled self damage isn't,begone

[unkempt moss]

I'm not an authority in philosophy or religion. Im a regular dude that has spent a lot of time thinking about both. Ive hit rock bottom only to find that theres even lower to go. If you need to bounce ideas off of me you can feel free to DM. I wont judge you because ive been where you are. I also wont try to sway you back to your faith because I know you can only walk that path on your own if you choose to.

Have you tried not shooting yourself?

[slow linden]

You should have to take the damage of the rocket you fired at your feet,you shouldn't have to take double and the enemy reduced damage,but you do anyway because this is a shitty system embark shoehorned in because lights were getting barrel stuffed with Explosives for being in horrendous positioning

[unkempt moss]

I get that a lot tbh

[serene glade]

No I said fast

[slow linden]

If you hit yourself and the enemy at the same time no matter the distance you will receive the full doubled amount of damage and they will receive the lowest possible amount of radial damage or less even if you direct impact them

They punish risky explosive plays unjustly,embark has put their foot down on this,they will not fix what they have intentionally, maliciously broken

[slow linden]

Back when frag grenades were cookable in the open beta you had to throw them before they exploded to be able to do any damage to the enemy at all even when they were right next to you,self coin bombing has always been impossible down to the roots of the game even though it's a really funny strategy

[alpine sphinx]

Why do people keep saying spear is the worst weapon when the MGL is literally right there?

[sudden pewter]

MGL can be used at range, from safety, without the need of LoS.

[alpine sphinx]

And that makes it better than weapons who do need LoS?

It's still a PoS that is only good in very specific situations

[sudden pewter]

LoS, and within melee range. It’s worse

[unkempt moss]

I'm not the dumbass using the RPG to blow my own face off and then self reporting in the discord.

Googs happens to love spear and MGL. Lets let him weigh in.

[sudden pewter]

The burst damage from the RPG is ideally used as a finisher or an opener. If an enemy closes the gap and you still decide to use the RPG (suicide play or otherwise) that’s your fault.

[unkempt moss]

"Ermmm im still going to cry in the discord about it, chud"

[sudden pewter]

You’re just not understanding that the RPG shouldn’t deal self damage, it’s clearly a bug and it needs to be fixed. If I shot myself with my own gun should I take damage? No!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/437863525965365249/1463995452805349517/lion_monkey_think.gif

[elder gate]

what in the corny ahh comment

[unkempt moss]

These white names coming in here like its feedback. Its insane.

[sudden pewter]

Invaders

[unkempt moss]

Embark needs to put a gold minimum to post outside of spawn and general.

[sudden pewter]

Could probably work somehow since you can link embark ID to discord

Not sure I’d want to cut off any suggestions from casual players though, even though 90% of the randoms that come through here are idiots, that 10% is still valuable.

Not like having a rank is absolutely necessary to have a deeper understanding of the game and its balance

[unkempt moss]

I meant whatever the gold name is in the cord. Just a minimum number of posts

[sudden pewter]

Oooooh, yeah absolutely 100% agree then

[unkempt moss]

They can have feedback too

[slow linden]

They're equally shit in my personal opinion,however no matter how over or undertuned a melee weapon is it will always be worse than a half decent ranged weapon,the skill ceiling is higher on melee but the potential harvest is limited,but a regular straightforward gun if you master it and hit nothing but headshots at all times you'll win against everything no matter what

[sudden pewter]

Would cut down on shitty takes and spam

[unkempt moss]

As mych as I love the random "yo"

[alpine sphinx]

The mgl is anything except a "half decent ranged weapon" and definitely not a "regular straightforward gun", and you can't even hit headshots.

[slow linden]

It's a dogshit ranged weapon and yet in easily acquirable favorable conditions it will always beat spear,simply because it is ranged

[sudden pewter]

Not that it’s a contest, but why are you so adamant the MGL is worse than spear?

[alpine sphinx]

In any situation where the spear catches up with you, you lose. And I do mean ANY situation because you can't reliably damage anything within 5m

[alpine sphinx]

Because I'm salty that I can't make it work 😂

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-worm-cat-worm-catworm-ai-generated-gif-11758626355945811640

[slow linden]

Let me explain it better for you,the spear counters other melees even though it's the worst melee weapon and one of the worst weapons in the game,because it has the most RANGE

The only melees that have a place high elo is riot shield because it can block bullets and the Sledge hammer because it can breach,even then spear can hard counter them if the player is good

[alpine sphinx]

I still don't see the point how the mgl should provide more value than the spear

[sudden pewter]

• AOE
• Demolition
• Ranged Spam
• No need for LoS

[slow linden]

You can turn a building to rubble in like 30 seconds

And your teammates can roof camp the now exposed and in the open players that didn't get blown up

[alpine sphinx]

Yes but also the requirement to bounce off your shot once, meaning it's significantly harder to aim for specific enemies

[sudden pewter]

Floor.

[viscid carbon]

What's everybody's favorite and least favorite Eclipse Shade skins?

[slow linden]

That doesn't matter as much when it can just blow up all their cover,you may die but your team will kill them if they know what they're doing

[sudden pewter]

Least favorite is AKM easily.
Most favored would probably be the SA or the Shak.

I’ve used the Eclipse Shade Shak for so long I’ve forgotten what it looks like without it

[unkempt moss]

Brick with a clip

[slow linden]

Least favorite is probably fcar,just looks like an average fcar skin painted black and i don't like the fcar,favorite is cl40 because I like the cl40 and it looks cool,there is no eclipse shade skin for my favorite weapons However

[placid slate]

Because it is factually twin

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/kitten-fighting-angry-kitten-fighting-kitten-fighting-angry-gif-9365240195094511059

[slow linden]

They are equivalent,completely unsavable without completely new mechanics tacked onto them

Spear should spin for as long as you hold down the trigger,mgl should detonate on direct contact with a player or turret no matter what

[alpine sphinx]

That's very inconsistent since you can't affect the velocity of your shot, meaning anything within 5-10m is nearly impossible to hit

[sudden pewter]

Watch yo tone breastie ( 🥛)
Lest ye be milked

[placid slate]

I've only died to a mgl 1v1 on spear once because I deadass decided to stand still and let them kill me. Their ass gets wiped every time, especially since 8.9.0

[sudden pewter]

It wasn’t which wins in a 1v1 pookie it’s a general comparison

[slow linden]

They were bad then,ranged is better and better than melee as skill goes up

[placid slate]

Was assuming so considering the arguments prior

[sudden pewter]

Hmm typical man assuming things smh

[slow linden]

Spear counters other melees,but all melees are better options than it

[placid slate]

The ttk diff is large enough that jumping them leaves them dead

I'm assuming this isn't in a vacuum no?

[sudden pewter]

No vacuum, just standard play

[slow linden]

A good ranged player will never be in the position to be jumped

[placid slate]

Yeah they getting clapped, assuming both are of a similar skill

[sudden pewter]

Spear or MGL

[alpine sphinx]

Literally impossible in this game btw, we are talking about the finals

[placid slate]

The man with the winch fling does not care for your "position"

[sudden pewter]

Again, not necessarily a 1v1. Just standard play, any gamemode any situation

[placid slate]

What do you think I'm glazing?

[alpine sphinx]

You can nearly ALWAYS be jumped with some very few and very limited exceptions

[sudden pewter]

Donuts

[kindred gorge]

the only "position" they will be taking it out the nearest window

[slow linden]

Winch shouldn't be in the game and you know it,that's coming from a biased heavy main that misses 450 health heavy btw,I am deranged and yet I agree with most other players on this

[kindred gorge]

it's so fun though

[placid slate]

Good thing we aren't talking in a vacuum

[kindred gorge]

I never see why people take such issue with stuff, cause if it was the reincarnation of satan it was made out to be it'd be in every game and you'd know it

[alpine sphinx]

The only issue with winch imo is that it interrupted actions that have a windup

[sleek jackal]

hi

[slow linden]

It's boring unless used with spear,just an insta win button,only boring cretins who don't care how they win and only that they do win use winch

[kindred gorge]

what, you don't move the cashout or drag enemies through a pile of landmines?

[slow linden]

I'm not going to win in any way that isn't skillful or fair or at least funny,winch doesn't do anything like this for me

[kindred gorge]

being able to pick up your dead teammates from a safe space has made a good impact for me too

[slow linden]

These are the only reasons I have used winch recently but I don't use it for anything else

I think being able to pull the enemy into danger is at all fair or sporting I think that it should pull you towards the enemy AND allies rather than the enemy towards you

[alpine sphinx]

If you think winch is an insta win button you haven't played it in a while

Yes the enemy is close to you and you can shoot them, but also the enemy is close to you and they can shoot you

[slow linden]

Even in it's nerfed state it's still a fuck you I win button

[kindred gorge]

winch is top tier when you fail to consider losing out on the value of any other heavy spec

[alpine sphinx]

That's just factually wrong

[slow linden]

I think they should completely unnerf it and make it pull you towards an enemy rather than the enemy towards you

In it's current state it's still annoying to fight and it's annoying to use

[kindred gorge]

heavy with a mobility item sounds hellish, frankly

[slow linden]

It would only work on players

It wouldn't be like a grappling hook

[kindred gorge]

that doesn't kill the effectiveness as much as you think when you have that "and allies" clause

also then it would just become a worse charge and slam, having it pull to you makes it unique

[slow linden]

I didn't say it wouldn't be effective,I want it to be effective I just don't want it to be boring or awkward

[slow linden]

It would be a way to keep up with or protect teammates or single out a fleeing enemy

[kindred gorge]

if you think it's boring or akward that's fine, just keep it as your opinion instead of some universal doctrine

[slow linden]

My opinion is universal doctrine,when it works it condemns the enemy to guaranteed death and when it doesn't work it does nothing

Most people agree with me,and the mountain of nerfs to it just keep it awkward and clunky,might as well remove it or rework it

[slender fiber]

why does pulling a heavy who is shoulder charging you towards you slow them down and stop them from charging at you

[slow linden]

It existing keeps certain heavy weapons from receiving buffs,and has caused nerfs and or reworks for these weapons,rather than nerfs to itself

One spec causing changes to other weapons and gadgets means it is a cancer that limits heavy and is better off changed completely or removed

There are a million things that are wrong with winch and the wrong it has done affects heavy even when no one in the lobby is using it because of how it has taken root in heavy and caused so many changes that make much of heavys sandbox more dependent on it

[alpine sphinx]

Like I said, the issue is interrupting windups

[slow linden]

How lost you are to see the damage winch has done to this game at such a shallow depth

[alpine sphinx]

Bro I could say the same about dash and Defi, both are entirely meta defining for their class, yet heavy is always demonized about a gadget that isn't even barely used as much as Defi and dash, and has arguably less of an impact since, unlike the other two, isn't well utilized with any weapon. Cash out manipulation is very good of course, but like @kindred gorge said, you lose out on so much other utility if you pick winch

*well utilized with all weapons I should say, not any

[kindred gorge]

please don't ping me rn I'm trying to lock back in on a paper

[placid slate]

You ain't losing out on shit

[alpine sphinx]

Goo gun, shield and charge and slam are all very good utility

[slow linden]

I know that you lose on utility,I am a goo gun main,all I have is utility,the point I am trying to make is winch caused changes to heavys kit outside of itself,it shouldn't be here if all its existence is going to do is corrupt

It is annoying to fight,it's boring and annoying to use,all it does is completely limit and corrode heavy from the inside,it cannot and has not done any good for the game,it will only take from heavy until the game dies

Who's going to play when a whole class is rendered unfun or unplayable

I honestly could care less that lights hate winch,if anything that's more reason to use it,I hate winch because its a direct threat to the balance of heavy,the fun of heavy,I don't want the whole class,or even part of the class balanced around one spec

[slow linden]

You do not know the tumor that you protect

Let embark kill it,stop liking it

[alpine sphinx]

The thing is, I don't have the goodwill for that because like I said, other toxic things have been in the game from the start, are overpicked to death, and have a way bigger influence on games, and yet winch is all they ever nerf

[slow linden]

I want dash nerfed or reworked too but the only reason it's overpicked is because they gutted cloak for no reason and nerfed grapple and removed one of the few things it had going for it

[unkempt moss]

What did they remove from grapple?

[slow linden]

You can no longer reload while grappling,you can still reload while dashing though

[unkempt moss]

When was that?

[slow linden]

I don't know when exactly I just know that it happened

Season 7 maybe?

[unkempt moss]

I had no idea.

[alpine sphinx]

Really? You can still throw gadgets like grenades and invis bombs etc, and prepare melee attacks like dagger and sword as well as prepare a strong throw on throwing knives

I'm pretty sure you can still reload during grapple too, you just have to start it after the grapple

Or maybe not even, I haven't tested it, but I don't think that's true since the other things I mentioned all still work

[slow linden]

Dude. That's not during grapple is it?

[alpine sphinx]

It is during grapple

[slow linden]

You said after

I'm saying they made it so you can't reload at all during grappling

[alpine sphinx]

After starting the grapple, but now that I think of it, that's not even true

I play dagger with grapple occasionally, and I'm very sure that all of those things are possible during grapple, and you can even grapple with a prepared backstab without breaking it

If it did I would have noticed that 100%

Wiki also doesn't mention the nerf you mentioned anywhere but the wiki can be unreliable

[slow linden]

Wikis are shit

[alpine sphinx]

Yeah like I said, but I strongly doubt that a nerf like that ever happened

[slow linden]

Apparently you still can but they just made it harder on accident,however the target of the nerf was being able to steal or revive while grappling

That said grapple should have never been nerfed at all and neither should cloak have,in fact their unnerfed states should probably have been buffed if anything

[indigo nexus]

Harder how..?

I didn’t notice a difference, that change exclusively affected environment interactions as far as I’m aware

[slow linden]

Many grapple players I know say that you straight up can't reload while grappling anymore,maybe the timing you're used to happens to be unaffected

[cerulean furnace]

Oh thas fun, Cerberus Buff. I was actually thinking about how I barely see it being used, even seeing more Dual Blades than Cerb

[plucky spade]

Whoever talked about valentines day thing being the main event should check new patch

[cerulean furnace]

yoo LH1 less camera shake too. Now I won't get sick anymore

[stuck quest]

Get Fucked Repeater Mains!!

[plucky spade]

Can't believe people thought pumpkin smash wouldn't return, also finally poke meta nerfed

[plucky spade]

Skill issue you still getting 3 tapped

[cerulean furnace]

I do be a Repeater main, but I lowkey don't hate the nerf ngl

most it changes is just the range and Heavies not being killed in 4 shots, which is fair. Try getting a headshot or two

[stuck quest]

Don’t care. One gun shouldn’t overshadow an entire class plus even a sniper

[cerulean furnace]

agreed. Maybe we see more Pike users soon

[plucky spade]

So we back to 4 tapping heavies?

[cerulean furnace]

Very happy about Cerb buff ngl. I loved that thing but it was lowkey impossible to use

[plucky spade]

Back to the vault it goes ig

[cerulean furnace]

well if you get a headshot yea, but now you need 5 body shots for Heavies

[analog pewter]

I can't believe the repeater is dead

[cerulean furnace]

Back to Revolver we go 😔

[stuck quest]

Hallelujah!!

[analog pewter]

Adolf repeatler is no more

[plucky spade]

Adolf cbitler found dead!

[cerulean furnace]

Damn y'all hate Repeater a lot :0

[slow linden]

FUCKING YEEES

[cerulean furnace]

Also BFR nerf is also quite appreciated

tbh felt like that weapon is more punishing than the Repeater

[slow linden]

Revolver is an actual fun and engaging weapon to use and fight

[analog pewter]

Repeater nerf is technically a heavy buff since only stk vs heavy has changed lmao

[stuck quest]

That game was ruining finals for me. It’s why I hated watching the majors. Didn’t see any dual swords or Cerbs or anything else other than that Fuck ass Gun

[analog pewter]

I wish they went for an RPM nerf instead of damage

[indigo nexus]

I wonder how big that LH1 change will feel. It could totally shift my perception of how effective the weapon is, in my own hands

[cerulean furnace]

They did tho

[analog pewter]

Marginally, I'm talking about a significant rpm nerf with no damage change

[cerulean furnace]

I did like using it when I played Light, but the shake always made me sick as hell

[analog pewter]

LH1 had the worst visual recoil of all time, I hope this changes that

[slow linden]

I generally despise poke,I don't like it when people can just click on me a couple times from across the map and kill me in seconds

[cerulean furnace]

fr I hope I can use the normal Iron Sights now without it being the worst sight on it

[bitter geyser]

Cerb is genuinely so fun

[indigo nexus]

The patch notes list the old BFR RPM differently to the wiki / my data, so I'm gonna remeasure it

[analog pewter]

Buff model next

[cerulean furnace]

Model is fine :p

[bitter geyser]

As a cerb meta hater ^^ it is genuinely so fluid as a shotgun

[analog pewter]

It's
Deserving of better

[stuck quest]

Hang on now, careful what you wish for. No need to repeat Season 3 Models 😒

[analog pewter]

Idk repeater nerf might actually be good for model though

[bitter geyser]

You can explode lights from narnia with the model, it’s honestly fine and just requires aim

[analog pewter]

I mainly just want a slightly faster rpm

[cerulean furnace]

Ehh yea I can see reasons for a tiny buff, but I've been using it a lot and ngl I tend to have real good rounds with it. It definitely forces u to understand the weapon, which are my fav types of weapons (such as Dual Blades)

[cerulean furnace]

oh it 100% will be

[analog pewter]

It's my favorite medium weapon i love it to death

[plucky spade]

Guess why

[slow linden]

Season 3 model was only as broken as it was due to the limited amount of tools that could fight it,we don't have those limitations anymore

[indigo nexus]

Nah, it would totally be meta today if it was reverted to that state

[plucky spade]

Vro.

[cerulean furnace]

Nahh I know, imo I didn't hate fighting against it as much tho. I just took advantage of the rhythm other people shoot with it

[stuck quest]

It’ll be good for the entire game.
It outperforms a literal DMR the Pike. It has more rounds and reloads faster than a revolver. Pokes almost as good as shotguns but with range. Damn thing needed to go

[analog pewter]

I'm sad they didn't buff the pike at all. I really want to see it get something like reduced recoil or 15 rd mag

[indigo nexus]

Shoot faster than a revolver..? It has barely half the RPM of it

[cerulean furnace]

I will disagree on the shooting faster than revolver part

[bitter geyser]

???

It doesnt shoot faster than a revo lmao

[slow linden]

Meta doesn't mean unfair,also a close range,melee or shotgun meta is preferred to an automatic or poke meta

[stuck quest]

Meant to say reload 😅

[plucky spade]

Hell fucking no bro get a grip

[cerulean furnace]

The Revolver still loads faster tho

[bitter geyser]

Even with speed loader?

[slow linden]

I'm always grippy 😈

[indigo nexus]

I think it would be both meta and unfair in a more general sense. It doesn't need that much damage.

[cerulean furnace]

Technically yea the speedloader gives u 5 rounds immediately, but I still take the Revolvers reload since u can animation cancel that thing

[stuck quest]

If we go back to S3 models, screw it, buff db. Let’s never go back to that

[plucky spade]

What too much time in weapons gadgets does to a mf

[slow linden]

I never really had an issue fighting it,just kinda beat them to death with the Sledge,I was a Sledge main from open beta to like season 5 I think

[vocal stone]

Can someone please test cerb, does it kill heavy with 3 shots now? I mean, if you shoot as fast as you can, without pauses between shots

[plucky spade]

Bro played the hard counter and thought shi was aight

[slow linden]

I'm still updating my game

[indigo nexus]

will do in a minute. Am going to gather the new RPMs

[bitter geyser]

Cant anim cancel loada?

[vocal stone]

Thanks guys

[slow linden]

I played what I found fun,I also don't see how melee is a hard counter to a gun,just shoot me

[cerulean furnace]

13 x 8 = 104
104 * 3 = 312

Yes it can, but ya gotta throw in a QM

[placid slate]

Sledgehammer

[cerulean furnace]

U can slightly shoot faster with the Revolver when u quickswap to a gadget and then back to Revolver when it has it's 6 rounds in the animation

[plucky spade]

Model used to be much more close range

[cerulean furnace]

There's a sound I use to know when I have to do it, plus getting used to how long it takes

[plucky spade]

But still lost to sledge

[slow linden]

Yeah it used to be perfect,now it's suffering from the tumor that is winch and I refuse to touch it because of why it was nerfed

[cerulean furnace]

o wait u meant the Repeater, u "can", but it doesn't do much difference

[slow linden]

It was nerfed because of and around winch,I don't use diseased weapons

[cerulean furnace]

Btw since winch has been mentioned

Why does winch have it's prolonged stun back

[indigo nexus]

wdym by "prolonged stun"?

[cerulean furnace]

I remember they nerfed it. I noticed the change and that I was able to still fight. Now it feels like before the nerf again

[slow linden]

Spear has its own disease,that of starvation,neglect but I use it over Sledge now because it's not tainted by winch

[indigo nexus]

the stun duration depends on the distance you were winched from

[bitter geyser]

Its range dependent

[vocal stone]

Yeah, i understand that. I meant including the fire damage. Because before the buff, if you shot heavy point blank with 3 shots - it left him on a life support, 5-10 hp maybe

[bitter geyser]

You might be getting winched from farther lately

[cerulean furnace]

That I know, but I get winched from like 3 ft and it feels like it's the same duration as like 8 ft

[bitter geyser]

Do you know how much damage the DoT does?

[hardy dust]

31 iirc

[placid slate]

Sledgehammer is a tumor, malevolent object

[vocal stone]

33?

[indigo nexus]

new cerb spread pattern

[quiet shadow]

Wtffff whyyyy wth with dis balance

[cerulean furnace]

Idk I have no stats on it, I can only say from experience on getting winched

[indigo nexus]

Yes, it does

[vocal stone]

Hell yeah, appreciate it man

[bitter geyser]

Probably, youll have to check

[bitter geyser]

Maybe is bugged

[indigo nexus]

31.2 @bitter geyser

[slow linden]

Sledgehammer is corrupted divinity,winch killed it,do not resent Sledge just because you are neglected,winch claw is the chain that keeps you bound,it's the main reason they neglect spear

[vocal stone]

Yeah, right

[slow linden]

If we never got winch claw spear would probably be decent by now

[placid slate]

I will blame sledge for the shitty 1v1 match up so long as it continues to be shitty

[hardy dust]

Be fr embark would still leave it shitty

[placid slate]

Also a lot of the sledge mfs have a victim complex so I don't like em

[bitter geyser]

I wish sledge and sword were reliant on m2 again rather than m1 skilless spamming

[hardy dust]

Is it really a victim complex if they're literally a victim

[placid slate]

They aren't

[bitter geyser]

Gosh why isn’t it a whole number

[hardy dust]

Victims of shitty game balance

[placid slate]

Mfs got nerfed before they went hard meta, happens to everyone

[viscid carbon]

Q to win with winch anyway

[slow linden]

I tend to beat Sledge with spear a good amount of the time because of the reach and you know this because we tested it before Sledge was nerfed,and Sledge just barely beat it like 60% of the time,Sledge is much worse now and probably only wins 40% of the time

[bitter geyser]

I mean sledge was meta and every WT game the few weeks before it got nerfed had at least 3 sledges, it was so horrible

[cerulean furnace]

Maybe? Would be nice if the Devs look at it again, cuz it def does not feel like it used to feel like when the initial nerf happened

[viscid carbon]

Sledge isn't as good now but winch is just too good

[hardy dust]

Sledge wasn't meta it was just a good pick at its peak

[cerulean furnace]

Anyways Charge and Slam > Winch

[hardy dust]

Sledge will probably never be meta as long as sa12 exists as is

[placid slate]

I said almost, season 7 would've been the tipping point

[bitter geyser]

sa lowk dethroned tho

[viscid carbon]

I don't know much but does the minute contact damage on winch affect the breakpoints on sledge?

[slow linden]

It approached meta for a week and they nuked it from orbit instead of nerfing or removing winch

[hardy dust]

It would've never actually tipped into meta though

Or if it did it would be at most on the same level as sa12

[hardy dust]

No

[misty saffron]

So they nerfed ones of the most skill-dependent weapons… just why?
Poke meta, c’mon, there is a ton of weapons who could dominate in most scenarios, for BFR and CB-01 you need really good aim to compete with m11, yet still
This is insanity

[placid slate]

Do you not understand how letting prime sledge reset at mach fuck would push it over the edge?

[hardy dust]

Repeater and bfr were both super overtuned and absolutely deserved the nerfs

[cerulean furnace]

They're still really good weapons, the only change is that they don't completely dominate their class now

[slow linden]

For pure laziness reasons instead of scared to positively change the balance of something that could synergize with winch bitch reasons

[hardy dust]

Heal would actually counter prime sledge by fucking up breakpoints, making it weaker than pre S7

[misty saffron]

Not sure we are playing the same game, bruv
I don’t get where you coming from at all

[cerulean furnace]

Now I do wish for more buffs or gadgets for Medium. Data Reshaper buff please 🙏

[placid slate]

Can't outheal a one-shot via winch

[cerulean furnace]

(not Defib, that thing is fine)

[slow linden]

God forbid a melee weapon have a seat in the meta for five fucking minutes

[hardy dust]

Then nerf winch not sledge. Winch will be a free kill anyways

Also h+ would still counter it anyways 💀

[cerulean furnace]

DID THEY?

OMG THEY DID

[slow linden]

He harbors the parasite,he doesn't know

[hardy dust]

😔

[bitter geyser]

lool i was confused on why it said 335 but i just thought my brain was playing tricks on me

[analog pewter]

They should shape it like a pentagram

[slow linden]

Wrong mythology,it'd also be ass

[analog pewter]

Nuh uh

[misty saffron]

I guess they should
They require timing and precision, other way you just dead due to TTK
Or just because it is MUCH easier to track heads with p90, ak, especially Famas, (where you have a ton of spare ammo) than land good shots against ARN with infinite ammo

[bitter geyser]

timing? Not really, precision meh, but burst weapons in general are not as skillful as a high ttk track

[cerulean furnace]

In terms of keeping the game alive and fun for everyone, I think high skill weapons should stay hard and not dominate on pure stats, but on the way u use em

[analog pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/almighty-god-kill-this-white-devil-white-devil-anime-pray-gif-3459143917308405490

[indigo nexus]

balance I presume? That's just how much damage fire deals

[cerulean furnace]

I'm completely fine if my busted weapon isn't busted anymore, if it means that we get more variety in what weapon players want to use and like using

[bitter geyser]

Truee, heavy has honestly a well balanced set of usable weapons and its nice to see variety

Light and medium on the other hand…

[cerulean furnace]

Heavy is the most powerful but also most balanced class

[slow linden]

I think everyone should play what they like and not be so goddamn boring and worried about what the meta is all the time

[cerulean furnace]

(well except winch, but I suppose thas a skill issue of me)

[bitter geyser]

No winch is zero skill, i agree

[jade laurel]

Blunderbuss when yo

[cerulean furnace]

I woudn't call it zero skill, but the stun is just what's really unneeded

[slow linden]

It's more of a curse than a blessing,it is no skill yes,but it will hollow heavy out with blanket nerfs and guttings to anything that synergizes with it before they ever think of removing it

[jade laurel]

Remove stun reduce cooldown

[bitter geyser]

Tbh i only play ranked or watch comp so for me i prefer having a meta that changes or has variety. Ive only been playing fcar and while its fine, the amount of effort i have to put in to win a duel versus a repeater is just irritating

[slow linden]

Nah just remove it I'm tired of winch being tweaked,kill the serpent in the garden

[jade laurel]

Remove spear

[slow linden]

You need not worry about that anymore I'm pretty sure they killed it

[bitter geyser]

I stopped worrying because i swapped to lewis mesh :), but i cant play for now so whatever, my only view of this game is through tournaments/streams

[slow linden]

Spear is underpowered,I'd say double it's damage,buff it,do anything other than let it rot any longer and the same goes for mgl

[jade laurel]

Spear need to delete from game

[slow linden]

@placid slate boo this man

[jade laurel]

I love spear

2nd highest level weapon but it’s terrible

[bitter geyser]

thonk

[jade laurel]

If you think u wanna use spear just use anything else tbh

[slow linden]

It feels better to use than Sledge because Sledge is tainted by nerfs caused by winchclaw

I used to main sledge,but if they change everything on heavy around winch or keep changing things I like around winch I will quit playing heavy and I swear I will become the most annoying,toxic try hard light in the history of the game and singlehandedly get light gutted

Or maybe I might become a medium and do the same,medium has the most players after all

[hardy dust]

I like sledge more than spear because it breaks stuff

[slow linden]

The Sledge is dead to me until they remove the cancer from it that winch inflicted

[hardy dust]

I want old melee back

[slow linden]

They genuinely lobotomized that fucking thing over winch,over a slimy fucking leech that you throw at people really embark

Honestly fuck medium,they get their tumors removed but does heavy? No heavy gets the shit kicked out of them with tungsten shoes and left to rot with the parasite

[indigo nexus]

marginally weakened = lobotomised?

kills heavies marginally slower and otherwise makes a difference only against damaged targets

[analog pewter]

Id like sledge buffs

[cosmic oriole]

the new folding fan skin is fire but i think its pay to lose. i purchased it for research purposes.

The entire centre portion is blocked off when inspecting. its really cool though

Dont say 'dont inspect the knives' some people want to enjoy their skins in the match, and it's also muscle memory for me to look at my knives haha

[slow linden]

The fact that it was changed at all around winch is reason alone to throw it in the garbage and never touch it again

[cosmic oriole]

Enemies are completely obstructed when pressing inspect. i think lowering opacity when inspecting would be good. Would this be a good change? Any opinions?

[placid slate]

What if we made winch a spear exclusive spec?

Would be funny ngl

[slow linden]

As much as I would love this they would never do it

Remove winch and add it as an alternate attack to spear when you hold down both triggers

[placid slate]

They would never do half the things people yap about

[placid slate]

That's basically what I said but arguably more op since you now have 2 specs

[slow linden]

I think a lot of melees would be fixed by having a second alternate attack

[placid slate]

Mesh spears would no longer be crazy masochists too

[placid slate]

That would be epic, since there is a lot of button realestate left due to it not having certain gun functionality like reloads

[cosmic oriole]

throwable heavy knives when

[indigo nexus]

#👂┇game-feedback message @timber cedar can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

[placid slate]

When embark wants more money to throw at arc raiders

[slow linden]

Even something small and flat like going into an animation where you apply fire or poison to dual blades or sword would be cool

[placid slate]

Olympic pole vault spear

Spear mfs would finally be able to experience what it feels like to be the victim of a winch fling

[cosmic oriole]

pocket heavy specialisation. you get a miniature screaming heavy that you can deploy and runs around the map. does nothing except that. thoughts?

[slender fiber]

I don't think inspect animations need to be considered for balance tbh

the point is they look good not that they don't screw you over they are allowed to do that look at cs

[cosmic oriole]

Hahha true

[slow linden]

So shadow clone charge and slam?

[indigo nexus]

I think that would look weird. Why is this a problem anyway?

[cosmic oriole]

It's a readability issue

most enemies and tracking in a fast paced fight happen in the centre for me

[indigo nexus]

So, why are you inspecting your fan in the middle of a fast paced fight

[slow linden]

To clip farm like a tik tok loser

[cosmic oriole]

Hahhha

but yea, like i said i sometimes tap inspect out of habit, while moving, reloading, or just when i want to fidget

[slow linden]

It's worse than I thought

[indigo nexus]

I see

Personally I don't even remember which key inspect is bound to

[slow linden]

You have a crippling dopamine addiction and cannot be idle for 0.3 nanoseconds

[cosmic oriole]

Hahha fair enough

[broken mulch]

default is t i think

[slow linden]

Find help I've been where you are and I didn't like it

[chilly granite]

This and the CB-01 change were originally planned for 9.7, but held back for further testing.

Holy shit whos big idea was that

[slow linden]

Eh?

[chilly granite]

Patch notes

[placid slate]

Mfs be unironically be saying that the original plan was to have literally 1 balance change this patch

The better idea is to release the cosmetic team from their shackles in the basement

Based on what I can infer from statements from embark, they are not given any holidays

Evil management requires infinite skins

More rarities for more price hikes

[chilly granite]

CB is probably dead cuz it's shit against heavy now

[placid slate]

Duplicate assets to increase bundle prices

[cerulean furnace]

Nah it's still a strong poke weapon. Just needs teammates to actually defeat a Heavy instead of doing it alone

I did find out that 2 headshots and a body shot still doesn't kill a heavy, so they will always need 4 shots. Unsure if that's good or not

[chilly granite]

I mean, the two changes it got to make it op was 84 to 88 and 72 rpm to 78 rpm

Now it's probably 84/76rpm

[chilly granite]

This is very significant because heavy will also be healing probabyl

[cerulean furnace]

True true. Would not be surprised if they increase the DMG by like 1 or 2 so that 2 headshots will lead to the bodyshot as a kill

I'll still use it anyway since it still stomps Mediums and Lights and just feels good to use

Although, in Practice I noticed that the ARN and CB seems to lose their reload sounds while ur moving

[stoic garden]

embark try not to overnerf weapons challenge, repeater now mostly dead, though I'll very much take it

[cerulean furnace]

People really calling a weapon dead the first day it gets a nerf that they asked for. Incredible

[placid slate]

Just like how people said that the v9s was sniping people from 50m away after it got buffed, despite said buffs not changing this behaviour

[cerulean furnace]

I do feel like 2 headshots should let the last bodyshot kill. Seems fair to me, We'll see how it goes

[stoic garden]

i never asked for a damage and range nerf, i only ever said rpm, though the range nerf is also somewhat warranted

[chilly granite]

https://youtube.com/shorts/QdnGQDqU2LE?si=p2YrK_0cXkSgeFJg

@unkempt moss your culture is beautiful ❤️

[chilly granite]

88 damage, and make the fire rate ass

It really isn't complicated

[stoic garden]

very complicated for embark

[chilly granite]

The day after the first buff it did do substantially more damage at 50m, I think 2 shots less to kill on h/m and 1 less on light? Don't quote me

Even being one less shot to kill is substantial because there's a minimum chance for each shot to miss at long range, even for very skilled players

And one less shot to kill means one less chance to miss

[chilly granite]

I think falloff was fine if it was projectile beyond 30m

But if they don't want to give it projectile, it needed a falloff nerf

[stoic garden]

yes i agree with range nerf

[vernal cloud]

How good is the lh1 now? Tbh I always thought the visual recoil held it back now that it got buffed did it have an effect like the ks23 where the accuracy crazy good now?

[indigo nexus]

it's hard to get a side-by-side comparison. If I didn't read the patch notes I probably wouldn't have noticed a difference

[serene glade]

Let me get my scale out

[swift agate]

These sections in the patch really made me a bit confused. While I agree with the sentiment on heavy, and the induvidual weapons absolutely deserved that they got, I'm having a difficult time understanding the balance philosophy in terms of which classes are meant to be good at which roles, specifically what medium is meant to be good at if not poke.

My understanding has always been that each class is generally great at one role, good at another, and bad at the last:

Light: great at dive, good at poke, bad at brawl
Medium: great at poke, good at brawl, bad at dive
Heavy: great at brawl, good at dive, bad at poke

This kind of setup gives enough flexibility for each class to have the most playstyle options at their disposal (being able to viably play 2 out of 3 roles at any given time) while maintaining unique strengths and weaknesses for each class.

But therein lies the confusion, because these sections seem to imply light should be better than medium overall at poke, which I don't think is or should be true even when the repeater is completely removed from the equation, and my question to the devs is that if medium isn't meant to be very good at poke, what is medium supposed to be good at?

This isn't to say medium is bad, not by a long shot. Medium is, in my opinion, still stronger and more viable than light overall. The repeater nerf specifically was very much needed and made medium too good in a lot more situations than just poke. It's more an open discussion how how the medium class should be handled going forward, and how I don't really agree with the developer's implications here.

[vernal cloud]

ngl u got a point

[wraith orchid]

yea, but here's the question: is light, or medium supporting better the heavy, which is the focus of the fights right now? that's the important part, and what makes the difference between a MHH meta, and a LHH meta, which looks possible more then ever now

[swift agate]

If you think HHL is in any way on the table, I don't think you have serious perspective on the game's balance

[wraith orchid]

It totally is, many serious competitive players are looking into it

[outer crow]

......

https://tenor.com/view/lol-risitas-haha-laught-jaja-gif-14980367

[swift agate]

What about this is bad or surprising to you?

[wraith orchid]

the supportive role of the medium is no longer enough, as he doesn't do much beyond that, while the light can still provide said supportive role, and more (ex:damage ) the recent nerf to the medium's best weapon doesn't help in that regard

[chilly granite]

go practice range and try the rpg so you get a feel for the range at which you stop taking damage

it's around 5m where you take 0 damage from the rpg

it's not difficult to avoid

[outer crow]

medium revolver is almost better in everything compare to bfr titan

except body/enviromental damage

[wraith orchid]

who uses it for destruction? 😂 it's like, 12 bullets to destroy a wall

[outer crow]

🤷‍♂️

[wraith orchid]

wait no, it's 16 now, they nerfed that early on 😂

just use the ks at that point

[outer crow]

while in reallity the titan bullet caliber (.500 S&W Magnum) is even more dangerous than .50 ae

[swift agate]

'Except for body damage' which is the damage most players will be dealing most of the time. The r.357 is better with headshots because it's a headshot focused weapon. You need to hit heads in order to do well with it.

The titan is not. It can do extremely well on bodyshots only, and as if to illustrate that point, the stats you pulled up are the stats before the nerf. They haven't been updated on the wiki yet.

[chilly granite]

just tested the grapple didn't affect my reload at all?

[outer crow]

hope they update it later

[swift agate]

Bruh you can absolutely reload while grappling

I'll update it soon, don't worry

[chilly granite]

it'snutz

[swift agate]

The titans caliber is actually .500 Bushwhacker. It's like .500 mag, but it's quite a bit longer and more powerful

[outer crow]

trust me, any 50% buff is crazy as shit (no matter what)

[indigo nexus]

It seems like the takeaway is just, your interpretation of class roles differs from the dev’s intention.

You seem to have placed a huge oversimplification on class roles in general, so if you don’t perceive a role for medium then I would first question your classification system in the first place, as “poke, brawl, dive” is not everything that could define a class, I think.

[chilly granite]

their RPMs are caculated just on the raw animation time afaik

so there's a small extra delay they're not including in the rpm

[outer crow]

like example v9s 50% buff before which made it broken as hell

those kind of buffs must not go on live at all if specific stuff doesnt being in terrible state

[indigo nexus]

Nah, it 100% depends on what it’s affecting

Personally I didn’t notice a clear difference, but I also don’t use the gun a lot

[chilly granite]

thats without fire damage, if you're hitting that many pellets, there's easily gonna be enough fire damage

[indigo nexus]

A visual recoil reduction is absolutely incomparable to the massive range buff the V9S got, I would assert.

[outer crow]

well....for me its same shit

[indigo nexus]

Why

[outer crow]

well because i pay attention to buff % mostly

[indigo nexus]

Okay, but… why, that’s just silly

[cerulean furnace]

I know. They did specifiy without pauses between shots and I didn't know the fire damage it does. My point stands tho that u can finish a Heavy off with a QM, which you'll likely do if ur using the Cerb since u gotta be close

[outer crow]

well if devs buff guns mag by 50% or reduce recoil by 50% or give it 50% damage buff....for me its equal crazy shit which always lead to more problems

when i played previous project - it had sometimes same problems

stuff only should get so crazy buffs if it is in deep shit state as i said before

otherwise its cringe and says a lot about incompetence of balacing team

[indigo nexus]

So you’ve said, but why??

It sounds like you’re willingly giving yourself a nonsensical stance on balance

[outer crow]

some things can not be explained by words

[indigo nexus]

Then you do not understand them.

[chilly granite]

now that's a hot take

the cb is literally just a model that's better but feels worse to use, in my opinion

[indigo nexus]

And hence using that as ammunition to call people incompetent seems laughable

[cerulean furnace]

Oh naur it totally was

[chilly granite]

I'm very sensitive to visual recoil because of health and for me it's a huge buff

[outer crow]

lets end the conversation because i already feel in which cringe direction it will go with such answers from u

[indigo nexus]

The unthinkable direction of having to directly confront criticism

[cerulean furnace]

In terms of range and damage the Repeater will stomp L and M more easily than a Model. It took me a while to get used to the Model but I like it a lot and tend to win my games with it, but I stay by the fact that the Repeater is just better, but requires precision aiming

[swift agate]

Those categories aren't everything that can define a class, but they are the three methods engaging offensively with an enemy in a first person shooter.

If you don't think so, I would ask you to give me a method of shooting an enemy that doesn't involve A. Sitting back and shooting them from far away, B. Flanking behind them and shooting them from an unexpected angle, or C. Walking up to them and shooting them in the face directly.

This is a very robust way of defining the strengths and weaknesses of class archetypes, which is why it's mainly used for parsing balance in hero shooters, where there are lots of unique characters with lots of complicated abilities that can seem difficult to understand at its face, but it really does come down to asking, is this character best at shooting people in the face, shooting people in the back, or shooting people from far away?

Or if its a supportive archetype, you can ask are their support abilities better at helping teammates who shoot people in the face, teammates who shoot people in the back, or teammates who shoot people from far away

[chilly granite]

it's a huge difference for me

i have a friend who's been playing headshot only lh1 for the past month so we'll see what he says

[outer crow]

huge difference for u&me but not for him :D

[chilly granite]

the cumulative fire dammage should be more than the remaining hp

[cerulean furnace]

Thas awesome

[indigo nexus]

Sort of (but not thoroughly I would say, you can break it down more granularly), but that is but a subset of what makes the class.

When discussing the topic I would introduce additional roles such as repositioning, sustenance (self), sustenance (team), time-play, and for example split up poke into range classes, dive into rapid attrition and subversion, and probably more if I was bothered to think about them.

As a result of all this stuff I do not think it is sensible to consider it a flaw in class design if just a certain subset of these is not equally distributed among them.

[cerulean furnace]

Welcome back Cerberus

[indigo nexus]

Cerb can now just about one-mag a heavy with no quick melee, yeah

[wild zenith]

so, cb01 is now weaker than before they buffed it

[indigo nexus]

It’s in an intermediate state of its previous place and its “OP” state.

[indigo nexus]

Yes, I think they’re balancing partially for user satisfaction

[cerulean furnace]

It'll likely receive a tiny buff that essentially returns it to it's original state before the buff

[chilly granite]

the afterburn should reapply with each shot right? so it should be more than enough to one mag a heavy

[wild zenith]

that is stupid. balance should not be about "revenge" or "taking turns." embark needs to suck up their pride and revert changes when they fuck up instead digging their grave with overcorrection after overcorrection

[chilly granite]

CB still has significanlty better rate of fire than oringinally built

[outer crow]

fact

[chilly granite]

This is very normal, stuff like visual recoil is something that a lot of people can be more or less sensitive too

[outer crow]

and also, to stop doing so crazy stat changes when it's not necessary

[wild zenith]

also lh1 changes are gonna be a problem. That gun has always gotten to have overtuned damage specificallt because of its terrible recoil. You cant just remove its primary weakness and expect it to be okay

[chilly granite]

I don't mind if they were just up front about vibes based balancing, but pretending that they're doing stat based balancing is a joke

[cerulean furnace]

Does it? I can't find an update where it increased the RPM before

[wild zenith]

at least its not as easy to use as v9s when it was busted

[swift agate]

I agree that more granular discussion on the subsets of these roles can be useful, but not when we're talking about a general overarching question of "what should this class be good at?". For example, I would split Brawl into two subcategories, one that focuses more on defense and survivability (Sustain), and one that focuses on bulling over the enemy with overwhelming force (Rush)

But we can't really talk about that until we have our bases covered. Especially for a game with only a few classes and lots of kit customization, those subsets are useful for describing induvidual loadouts and abilities, not for defining a class as a whole.

[chilly granite]

it was buffed when they fixed a bug in 8.6

@indigo nexus and the lh1s in my bank it games are bullying me super ahrd so it seems like on average it's a signfiicant buff

[outer crow]

when u give something - u should also take away something for balance!

[cerulean furnace]

U talking about this one? This was a fix to animation canceling

no RPM buff

[swift agate]

That's dumb, what if something is just bad? If you want to buff a straight up bad weapon, do you really need to take something away from it too?

[chilly granite]

https://discord.com/channels/1008696016318513243/1470553627205828790

[outer crow]

its not dumb - if a weapon is so bad, its means it has more cons than pros - and is disballance which should be fixed

[cerulean furnace]

OH! well damn no wonder I didn't find it

[indigo nexus]

Yeah, it does

[chilly granite]

undocumented changes are almost more common than real changees with embark

[cerulean furnace]

Damn you Embark

[swift agate]

Sure, but balance changes exist to fix that, not change weapons that are perfectly fine. If a weapon isn't too good or too bad, you don't need to give it a good and a bad change, you just don't change it.

[indigo nexus]

I’m not sure, I don’t have the experience in marketing and community management that they do. Really not my place to say

[swift agate]

Also the number of pros and cons is not a good way of determining balance. A weapon can have lots of small pros and one very big con and be bad, and a weapon can have a few very big pros and lots of small cons and be good

[indigo nexus]

I think you need everything to define the class as a whole. No subset of it gives you a better picture than the whole thing, I think the class’s different physical traits alone are enough to distinguish them such that further specific combat-style traits may be optimally arranged in a relatively arbitrary way.

[outer crow]

Valid point 🤔

not saying the entire balancing should be based on it

[alpine sphinx]

a cerberus buff???? in this economy??

[outer crow]

well its was kinda below average

[alpine sphinx]

ye but im still surprised they finally actually buff it

[outer crow]

i am more surprised they didnt f... up with it like they did with lh1 or v9s

50% stat buffing non compleat garbage stuff without good reason

[swift agate]

I disagree. When we talk about who should be able to do what, we should be talking about categories that are proportional. If we're defining what one out of the 3 classes is good at, we're talking about what 1/3 of the playerbase is able to do at any given point in time, so we need to keep it to the broad strokes. Arbitrary subcategory limits and exceptions shouldn't really come into play at this level, because that could impose on a significant number of players and the way they want to play the game.

Those limits and exceptions come into play when talking about specific kits, and then more granular sub-subcategories can be come into play when narrowing down specific weapons or abilities. You keep it simple as you talk about the biggest swaths of players, and then get more specific as you narrow things down.

[chilly granite]

yeah I'm loking forward to lh1 nerf becuase they're fukcing sutpid

can embark please stop buffing stuff that is meta-adjacent into oblivion?

UNI was scrimming with lh1 liek, a week ago lmao

it's a poke weapon

it was probably one of the most reasonablly balanced light weapons

like

why the fuck

are we buffing lh1

before spear

HOLY FUCKING SHIT EMBARK LEARNED FROM ARC RAIDERS

they're actually gonna have good feedback now

they should make the ranked mode bank it

mostly becuase I really want to see a bank it competative meta

there's like, 10 weapons that needed buffs, nerfs , or adjustments bofore the lh1

[placid slate]

I wanna see the timeline where bank it was the universally despised mode because it replaced ranked for a season

[indigo nexus]

I don’t know what you mean by “proportional”. My entire issue with your argument is that these aren’t truly broad strokes, they’re specific strokes that do not paint a very complete (and hence, relevant) picture of the situation. Considering as many significant traits as possible is not what I would consider arbitrary.

The roles that you’re discussing also come into play with different kits. Playing a class does not resign you to poke, dive or brawl. You can do all of them perfectly well with all the classes, it only becomes loosely limiting on a meta level.

[swift agate]

I agree that you're not locked into any one, which is why I define each class as being generally good at two roles, and bad at the last. A class archetype can't be good at everything and needs weaknesses, but you have to give them the most options you can.

Part of this is also giving a class options that fit the playstyle that the class is generally bad at. They will be at a disadvantage, but if somebody wants to play demat-cerb hardcore dive medium, they should be free to do so. And as if to illustrate the point, you can see how terrible the game was when demat-cerb was actually good. Medium was able to easily do things the class should not be able to, and it negatively impacted the overall game balance.

[chilly granite]

lights role is to be good at everything in exchange for being a strong breeze away from death thoguh

meidum is better at poke not by being better at poke but by being better at sustain

sr84 vs akm (pre repater/pike)

[swift agate]

So light is bad at brawl, the playstyle where you walk at the enemy and outdamage them before they outdamage you

Which yeah, I already said light is bad at brawl

[chilly granite]

no? sh1900?

[swift agate]

Sh1900 is a dive weapon, what are you talking about?

It's like the diviest of dive weapons to ever dive

[chilly granite]

matter?

[swift agate]

Matter is a brawl weapon, and it sucks lmao

[chilly granite]

xp

[swift agate]

Xp is also a brawl weapon, and it sucks. Which isn't it's fault either of those weapons either

[chilly granite]

you have some really weird opinoions and I don't think there's a way I can debunk them

[swift agate]

The only reason xp was ever good was because it was buffed to a point where it could poke better than the ARN. It has never made light good at brawling. And that's not because it's a bad brawl weapon either. A weapon could be good at something statwise and suffer because the class its on is generally bad at that thing. And that's fine, I think giving people those suboptimal options makes the game more fun.

Again, if you want to go hardcore dive cerb medium, go ahead, but you already know how the game suffers if whenever that suboptimal kit is made good

[chilly granite]

be more clear in terminoligy, what you mean in CQB sustain fighting

[unkempt moss]

This made me sick to my stomach to watch

[swift agate]

CQB head-to-head anyway, but that's more of a semantic difference than anything

But yes, that's how brawl as a playstyle is defined

[chilly granite]

dive being cqb burst

[swift agate]

Sure, if that's how you want to define it. The main difference between Dive and Brawl is the goals of each style. dive wants to take advantage of weaknesses in an enemy's awareness and positioning to force a disadvantage before they can react, and brawl is the opposite, trying to instead force an even playing field to directly outlast the enemy, either through raw offensive power or raw defensive sustainability (which is why I seperate the categories of Rush and Sustain)

The SH1900, for example, is a dive weapon because it relies on catching an enemy off guard to get close enough to kill them. if you put a double barrel light and a Lewis gun heavy on two sides of a hallway and tell them to kill each other, the heavy is always going to win because the light doesn't have any means of getting close without getting immediately disintegrated

That is, unless the terrain gives multiple ways to approach the heavy that they may not expect. The heavy will still have an advantage because brawl is generally strong against dive, but now the double barrel light actually has a way to perform a dive, and their success rate goes from 0%, to like 10-25%

[chilly granite]

dive counters brawl becasue it has burst damage to outperform the sustain

heavy shotgun beats flamethrower

[indigo nexus]

Mm, they can be good at everything bar something explicitly not possible due to their core properties, those being the class’s HPs, move speeds, regen times.

I very much disagree with the last point you are making here. This would not have been problematic so long as the option was balanced, it was only a problem because it was becoming hugely overrepresented, which is not necessary for something to be viable.

[tranquil sapphire]

How is cerberus feeling now?

[indigo nexus]

The buffs it has had compared to its current state only ever made its raw output stronger, its specialisation hasn’t changed.

I’m not quite sure how you’d define the difference between the three attack intentions on a light though, since brawl, poke and dive all seem like they could be almost the same thing, differentiated only by perhaps a range difference?

[kindred gorge]

I can't read the patch notes rn, someone tell me what happened

did the peater actually get balanced?

We might be back

[fleet hound]

bfr titan got smited

people js gonna use the slug now lmao

bfr titan already has trash firerate

[kindred gorge]

That's generous, considering how it's considered a bottom tier. And within effective range I don't think that damage drop will actually move the breakpoints

[fleet hound]

firerate got nerfed even more along with some dmg nerfs

[fleet hound]

dude I don't think they understand how hard it is to hit a moving light with the bfr titan, u need to literally flick

and it's useless in close range if a light rushes u

atp slug is just better now

[kindred gorge]

Maybe, but I play on controller and I can still decently manage if I lead the shot

[fleet hound]

dude without aim assist it's genuinely Soo fucking hard

[kindred gorge]

I do not believe this for a second

[fleet hound]

it's very rewarding when u land the shot though

[kindred gorge]

I love slug but it's kinda booty

[fleet hound]

does nearly same damage but way way higher firerate and bigger mag and it's usable in close to mid range

[fleet hound]

it is NOT booty bro just use circle crosshair makes a big difference trust me

it's just a reskinned bfr titan without optics, usually u don't even use the zoom u just hipfire

kinda sad though cause I used to get flick bfr titan headshots on light (which doesn't oneshot them eitherway unless they r low)

now the weapon just dogwater, they nerfed the firerate and range even more 😭

could be viable for console still cause I don't know how good aim assist is

[outer crow]

ruined as some people say

[serene glade]

i hecking love inaccurate hipfire on a slug shotgun

[kindred gorge]

better than it sitting pretty, give something else a chance to shine. It'll come back eventually

starting to think that I just need to see for myself though.

I can imagine some degree of the lament is people getting punished for leaning on habits, once people start getting back into the rythmm of it's firerate the complaints will drop off

[sudden pewter]

@compact tundra as this discords only bank it fan I’m sorry to tell you it’s an LTM

Also it’s been sent to the reeducation camps and emerged Chinese

[fleet hound]

idk man I never miss shots on ks for some reason

[sudden pewter]

The hipfire penalty has 100% causes me to lose some fights before

[kindred gorge]

bank it but the cashout is split equally between all players, except it's actually the top seed team that gets all the money and everyone else is screwed

[plucky spade]

Are you serious

[lone charm]

when do yall think thermal visions coming back

[serene glade]

Hopefully never

[lone charm]

but the cool charm :(

[stoic garden]

it's easier than doing that with automatics lol

[outer crow]

better not come back of a legal cheat device

[stoic garden]

live winch reaction:

[meager sphinx]

Guys I am a heavy build, I have RPG and the ram, but I can’t decide on the weapon. My favourites are the KS-23 and the SHAK

[sudden pewter]

Shak is broadly applicable and is a very solid choice

[outer crow]

yea, ks 23 is much harder to utilize

[kindred gorge]

Shak capitilizes off of charge slam more as well

[lone charm]

SLEDGEHAMMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[outer crow]

useless shit without ideal aim because of slug

[lone charm]

honestly probably shak

[stoic garden]

shak is kinda the opposite, requiring half the aim

[kindred gorge]

I would say SA13 as running that with charge slam is one of my favorite loadouts but shak is a good choice

[stoic garden]

damn sa12 got an update

[meager sphinx]

Okay thank you guys. I appreciate it

[kindred gorge]

I don't remember the number man, I can't go around calling it just the SA though

[stoic garden]

it does SA tho

[uneven moat]

Guys

How i cant have the badge sponsor? Plis

Someone help meeeee

[sudden pewter]

Can you try explaining your issue again?

[uneven moat]

You for exemple after ur username you have a sponsor badge from The Finals

[ashen hawk]

community: "Bring back Bank It"
bank it: becomes playable again
community: "Bring back TA, TA better than Bank It

[sudden pewter]

channels & roles at the top of the channel list.

[uneven moat]

Huh k and how or with who i cant got this?

[sudden pewter]

When you first join you get to choose them. 😔

[unkempt moss]

Everyone happy with the massive mid season patch?

[stoic garden]

we will never be happy

hoping lh1 doesnt become mainstream bro 🥺

[compact tundra]

This fact saddens me but I will play the best defense you've ever seen for the next 14 days. Also why the fuck did we remove money, in the game about getting money, for these little new years envelops, do Chinese players even play the same version of the game as us?

[placid slate]

Pray to God that the path of least resistance mfs don't pick up cerb again

[compact tundra]

🙏

[sudden pewter]

They’re wishes afaik. You steal their wishes and bank them so the Jade Emperor will make your dreams come true

[shell hornet]

is it just me or is this kinda cooking (except for the xp changes)

[unkempt moss]

Its the Chinese new year right now.

[sudden pewter]

• Bow didn’t need a buff.
  Agree.
• DB should be more punishing for beefing given the insane amount of damage.
  Agree.
• Undo FCAR Nerfs.
  Yes, but the nerfs allowed the AKM to shine. Might need looking into.
• XP Buffs.
  XP needs something for sure, not sure what.

[south oasis]

Weapon changes encourage the meta to shift 🤷‍♂️ sometimes its not always about whether or not a weapon/gadget needs it so much as nudging players to check it out due to it appearing in patch notes

[compact tundra]

Honestly I'd love to see the ARNs falloff multiplier made stronger so it's not that great outside of its 40m range, and see the XP get like a .71 multiplier, so it'd be solid at range but hard to aim with and would require hitting more shots than the current ARN

[sudden pewter]

Idk, XP seems very strange as the midrange option given Light exists in extremes.

[compact tundra]

XP would still be a solid midrange option, but past 40 meters it would be better than the Arn making it the definitive long-range option

While the Arn would still keep his great range but wouldn't be great past is 40 m range

[sudden pewter]

You wouldn’t fucking believe which word is listed as NSFW

[south oasis]

Turn all weapons into projectiles past 40m

[sudden pewter]

We truly live in the darkest timeline

[unkempt moss]

If going by my Vietnamese grandmother in law's tradition those envelopes are full of money. They do thr whole Chinese new year thing.

[alpine sphinx]

dash lights are so fucking disgusting

if you play dash light, i dont like you

[sudden pewter]

That’s very poggers. How much……yuan? Zenni? Social Credit? VBucks do they contain?

[unkempt moss]

Depends how poor your family is I suppose.

[sudden pewter]

I rely on free LTM cosmetics in a F2P game.

[unkempt moss]

Then probably like 50.

[sudden pewter]

Glory to Jade Emperor

[unkempt moss]

I was just passing on some information.

[shell hornet]

xp needs a damage buff, no reason for it to have same damage stats as m11, a 1 or 2 damage buff would make it actually useable against weapons like m11 and v9

[unkempt moss]

I assume the extended range and accuracy is how its meant to beat m11. And the fire rate is how it beats v9s. It does need some help to accomplish that though.

Biggest problem with XP is I cant find a scenario in which I wouldn't just run ARN. If there is one then its probably just slightly better.

It might just be my memory, but I feel like the XP has worse recoil than the ARN. It has been months since ive used the XP, and probably over a months since I've used ARN.

So someone can probably tell me if I'm wrong.

[shell hornet]

yea thats the main reason it needs a buff tbh, its just a gun inbetween m11 and arn when both guns out perform it

tbh if it just had a 0.1 damage boost it would be much better, today alone ive lost 5 fights with the opponent on 2 hp

[serene glade]

someone say damage boost 👀 , mgl 1 damage boost embark....just a schmeckle of your graces

[shell hornet]

thats what it needs tho im ngl

[sudden pewter]

I see that in the patch notes embark said they pushed back changes that went out today, why didn’t they tell us about that (and if they did where)

Why is communication such a challenge for them?