💣┇weapons-gadgets

[chilly granite]

I made a spreadsheet of optimal ttks but I don't have it on my phone

If you find my last video clip that's basically how you should use the bow

But the bow has too much velocity drop at range, and it is too fast (and too fat) in cqb

Being too fat means shoulders often absorb headshots among other problems, which is really tilting (fuck deagles)

Hitbox nerf would make even the best bow users less consistent, but would also make quality of life so much better, which is a valid change imho

And because arrow gets really slow at distance you get beamed by CB fcar bfr Lewis at80m and it's literally impossible to secure kill

Its so sad when I get a juicy dink for them to go afk behind a wall for a min and then repeat

I headshot a bfr heavy 5 times while he had two mediums healing him and he was just ego peeking me lmao

Maybe it was 4 times

[next solar]

Make the m11 do a billion zillion more damage

[chilly granite]

M11 is fine, long range weapons just need nerfs

[boreal laurel]

Dual blades are so stupid, I reflected some light’s bullets back at him and killed him…by accidentally aiming a bullet at a red canister nearby 🤣

[pine grail]

Dual blades take no dmg now?

[red pumice]

Wdym

[pine grail]

I sprayed a dbs guard and shot another with a shotgun and neither time did they take any damage

[red pumice]

dual blades can block damage if they're used correctly

[pine grail]

No no I mean 0

No chip no nothing

[red pumice]

yeah they were blocking with the blades probably

that's why they took no damage

[pine grail]

Wym properly your supposed to take chip damage

[red pumice]

Really

[pine grail]

Yea

[red pumice]

I've never used dual blades so idk how it really works

[vocal flume]

might be the server, i just tested it in practice mode and I was taking damage

i have been experience non consistent damage with every gun but the Sniper Rifle, some games weapons take more to kill and other games they are like practice range damage, so i dunno, the finals servers are a joke and embark never once did a single maintenance job.

[pine grail]

ye I tried it too just so confused

[sudden pewter]

Dual Blades blocks something like 90% damage. Some bleeds through regardless of what’s used.

It can block melee hits, but only blocks 75% damage

Still useful

[serene glade]

Pretty sure I saw someone say there's a bug where they don't take chip on dual blades block? Who knows anymore, embark deserves hell frfr

[swift agate]

the reason he took 0 damage from a double barrel is because dual blades block every pellet individually. Each pellet does 15 damage which reduced by 90% is 0.16, which rounds to 0

[sudden pewter]

Don’t worry bro we’re getting our weekly trough filling. I hope I get a mushy apple in my slop bucket

[swift agate]

Now the finals can deal fractional amoints of damage that aren't visible on the hud, but I'm not sure how far that extends. If all pellets hit from a db shot with each pellet reduced by 90% without rounding, the total damage should be 2.16, but if you take 0 flat from a db shot, that means the game does round out fractions after a certain point

[heavy lava]

v9s buff please i used to main it so much and now all i main are the smgs or arn. v9s was just super fun to use. at least make it queiter

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[hardy dust]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-durr-emoji-tongue-pleading-eyes-gif-7428063711697204297

[alpine sphinx]

No balance changes this week?

[viscid carbon]

No FCAR fire rate reversion

[fluid jolt]

For some reason, the Riot Shield, which I like but don't use that often, has already exceeded level 4. My other weapons are still at level 1 or 2.
It's not like the experience points required to level up are different for each weapon.

[indigo nexus]

Riot shield levels up really quickly as it gains extra xp from blocking damage

[fluid jolt]

Does deflecting a bullet add EXP to your combat record in addition to weapon level, like an allied support score?

[indigo nexus]

No

[placid slate]

Riot shield recieves a comically amount for blocked damage

[broken mulch]

how often do balance changes happen?
i swear i remember them being more frequent in s7

[indigo nexus]

For many seasons they’ve been a once-per-three-updates thing, or even per six

In the first couple of seasons it was every 1-2 weeks

[chilly granite]

if it's gonna be once every 3 weeks they need to be more heavy handed and actually touch some shit in the upates

[broken mulch]

no no, you dont understand, they buffed the pike

very big changes

i dont understand why they didnt js nerf the firerate on the pike instead of messing with the breakpoints, i feel like that'd have been better

i also dont understand why that one company in called engimo, i always thought it was enigmo

[chilly granite]

i mean, you'd have to gut the firerate if you keep the sr84 better than the pike, breakpoints is better

[chilly granite]

part of the problem is that poke weapons are basically inherently broken on medium because medium isn't mcuh bigger than light, but has a dramatically larger health pool

[chilly granite]

medium is 26% larger than light, according to my measurements

in reality, it's even smaller different than that, because medium's hitbox is tighter to body model than light's

meanwhile medium had 66% more hp

[marsh cosmos]

They should cut down 50 health points from each class.

[chilly granite]

you are aware that would make the health gap between light and medium larger, not smaller, correct?

[marsh cosmos]

Then keep Light at 125 but cut down Medium and Heavy by 50 each

[chilly granite]

100 vs 200hp would mean medium has 100% more hp

I mean, that would requiure much more extensive rebalancing of weapons than simply giving light +30hp or giving medium -25hp

[marsh cosmos]

Nah, Medium and Heavy are already bullet sponges as is

Removing 50 would make the TTK shorter and shorten fights

[chilly granite]

1360 px size light, 1762 size medium at 10 meters

medium has 30% greater area than light but 66% larger hp

this number does not account for the fact that mediums hitbox is more tight to the visible area

so the real difference between hitboxes is probably more like 15-25%

[marsh cosmos]

My suggestion is better. Light at 125, Medium at 200 and Heavy at 300

It would also make the TTK and the overall fights shorter

[chilly granite]

@maiden trench please can you explain why medium has a 66% larger hp pool than light for only a 30% increase in hitbox area, as a conservative estimate? this is why grapple is underused; without evasive dash/invis to compensate for the hp gap, light's hitbox and movement speed are not enough to let light be competative

this is also why poke weapons on medium are overpowerd. A poke medium is much harder to punish than a poke heavy or poke light, due to having enough hp pool to not die easily to long range chip from automatics, a small enough hitbox to hide behind most cover, a small enough hitbox that recoil from automatics makes it pretty hard to beam.

I'd like to know the actual area of the hitboxes for each class. If you don't provide the information, I will just comb through videos of me shooting the edges of training dummies until it hits and use that to calculate the hitbox myself. why make me suffer for the sake of obfuscating information that is basically meaningless anyway?

Also, balance changes should come faster if there are issues in balance and slower when people are enjoy the patch. When the game was new, people didn't have enoguh time to explore and enjoy the game before patches nerfed stuff, which is why people complained about patch tempo. The game is no longer new, and patch tempo should be more dynamic to account for that.

The cb repeater is anti fun, boring and bullshit. Medium or heavy should not be able to twoshot light without at least 1 headshot, or use of a long cooldown gadget.

defibs also overvalue hp pool which is part of the reason why light is always struggling to find a place in the meta; all classes should come up from defibs with a similar hp amount to counteract this - perhaps, 125/125/150

this would also decrease the advantage of double defib medium teams

[marsh cosmos]

DROP MEDIUM TO 200 HP AND HEAVY TO 300 HP

[chilly granite]

his name is glock in da rari, please don't listen to him

Also buffing light hp relative to medium/heavy means that you can tone down the power level of evasive dash and invis without crippling light, which improves new player experience which would for sure help new player retention @maiden trench @tiny relic

[marsh cosmos]

But am I wrong though

[chilly granite]

Heavy needs hp buffs and gadget/spec nerfs

Medium to 200hp is also probably slightly too heavy handed? I wouldn't mind it though

150/200/325 might be ok

But I have done some experiments with a spreadsheet I created that shows breakpoints at various hp pools, and 180/250/350 was probably the best

[marsh cosmos]

That is the stupidest thing I've seen

No one wants Light to become a bullet sponge considering how much mobility they already have

[marsh cosmos]

125, 200 and 300 are better, they were already used in Team Fortress

[chilly granite]

I mean, light doesn't have mobility, evasive dash does

125/150/300 would be tf2 equivalents

[marsh cosmos]

The grapple hook, the gateway

[serene glade]

Team fortress is lame so let's do something different

[chilly granite]

Grapple isn't "real" mobility as it's a fairly consistent acceleration which makes it easy for skilled players to track

Gateway I'll conceed

[marsh cosmos]

125/200/300 is the TF2 equivalent since they apply to the Light classes, Soldier and Heavy

[chilly granite]

Cl40 should have 175 for parity to demoman if light has 125

Soldier is a bad example because soldier is expected to take splash damage for rocket jumping

If rocket jumping dealt no splash, he would have 150hp like medic and sniper

[marsh cosmos]

Sniper only has 125

[chilly granite]

Demoman, same, but less so because pipes not rockets, 175hp instead of 150 of medic

Ah ye you're right

Even so, my point stands

Pyro with cqb weapon has only 175; soldier with an akm would not have 200hp, almost certain 150

Cl40 selfsplash is overtuned because medium has too much hp for a cl40 lol

That alone should tell you how overtuned mediums hp is

[marsh cosmos]

Medium and Heavy are too bulky for their respective roles

Especially when you factor in variables like health regen and no fall damage

[chilly granite]

healing is too effective right now in general

passive regen is probably too slow

medium's biggest problem is that their hp is too high for their role

[marsh cosmos]

Heavy is too

[chilly granite]

a healer needs to be squishy so you can delete them, but medium's not squishy enough so you can't actualyl give them good healing items

meanwhile light is too squishy so they have to be given op healing iitems

[marsh cosmos]

350 is a fucking joke considering they can tank like a dozen AK rounds to the chest

[chilly granite]

350 is probaly appropriate for the game's intended pacing

350 vs 150 is almsot identical to 125 vs 300

41.6% vs 42.8%

I do think the decision to make heavy/medium taller than light is questionable at best

[marsh cosmos]

But it draws out the fight and making the pacing shit due to the additional variables I put out

135 to 300 is more logical

[alpine sphinx]

matchmaking so ass you get matched against people with double your elo frequently

[chilly granite]

it's more because healing and dome shield are overtuned, whcih is in part a response to heavy dying too quickly in some fights

long range dps is much more available in finals compared to tf2

and stuff like ubercharge in tf2 are essential in high skill games to make heavy do his thing

[marsh cosmos]

But the end result still leads to shit pacing. Seriously, matches like Point-break and Powershift especially suffer from that due to the higher team numbers

[dim plover]

Lol, getting muted for 4 hrs was fun 😭

[chilly granite]

here's the thing, is that seeing a problem and hitting the problem wthi a hammer, is what finals balance team currently does, and tha'ts what gets you a hot mess of balance

you need to root cause analyse what the rreal problem is before you bring out the hammers

[serene glade]

I think what they should do is balance the game around breakpoints and then add universal healing, and then do nothing to adjust the breakpoints

[chilly granite]

exactly googs

[serene glade]

Rookie numbers, my high score is 12

[dim plover]

Lmfao

[chilly granite]

they changed the game immensely, and didn't adjust things that will have knock on impacts

this is why you need to root cause analyse

[dim plover]

Ill try some time, maybe ill be like you, lmao

[serene glade]

I believe in you

[chilly granite]

@plucky glade btw are you bad with cb in internal playtests? is that why it's not gettting nerfs?

please can you get good so we can get the cb nerfs we deserve?

medium main boo hiss please refer me to balance team

I'm still waiting for my mute

I'm not sure what I need to do to get a resposne from anyone at embark in any form

[dim plover]

Well a bot muted me so i have no idea dude

[chilly granite]

lmao

teh suport just tells pepople to go to discord because it's black hole

[serene glade]

This game is so bad it has me listening to my Paramore music rn. Please fix this horse ass game @maiden trench

[chilly granite]

@quaint ravine is the size of the hitbox on the arrow required for funcitnoal hitreg at server tickrate? or is it because the devs are bad at bow in internal playtests because they all play on controller?

[serene glade]

I got you bow kun

Do love a good little sum 41 every now and again tbf tbf

[chilly granite]

@quaint ravine also, does internal statistics tracking include average weaopn accuracy, and weapon winrate vs other weapons at a given range?

tbh I assume the internal stat trakcing is absolutely garbage since there are no exposed statistics for players

and then you do statistics based balacing KEKW

ofc its all usage stats becuase you dont have real statistics

[kindred gorge]

ping the ones with the arc tag, they seem eager to help with finals stuff

[chilly granite]

@elfin condor hi bro plz can u help me with finals? balance team is busy having smorgasboard instead of fixing game; we have weapon on medium class that twoshot light class and has defined meta but they think it's balance with a 40ms reductino in ads when the hipfire has no spread lol

[kindred gorge]

they should give light a decoy gadget like from halo

[chilly granite]

decoy is a terrible idea, it punishes new players and is useless agaisnt good players in 99% of games

[kindred gorge]

All you need is a split second distraction for light to thrive I think it would do nicely

or if you really wanna up it's utility let it set off traps

[chilly granite]

you're not explaining how it'll work well against the top 25% and not be overpowered vs the bottom 25%

light is already overpowerd vs the bottom 25% and underpowered vs the top 25%

[placid slate]

Brother a shitty decoy would not be overpowered unless you up against people that are actually not mentally there

[kindred gorge]

If it is a one to one of the halo one I can tell you that I as a completely new player used it against a guy with literal days worth of time and it still got him to turn around and give me free shots to start the fight

Or, with as much as you talk about light needing more hp, you throw it out in front of you as a 25ish health meat shield

Like it is a gadget that would rely heavily on the players creativity with its uses

[kindred gorge]

Here’s the other side to this: pretty much everything “punishes” new players that’s part of being new to a game. You see a weapon, gadget or spec you’ve never seen before, get beat a few times then learn what it is and how to counter

That’s just part of the learning experience, I thought invis was broken until I learned how to look and listen for it 10 games in

[chilly granite]

"literaly days" which is still bottom 25% percent lol

[kindred gorge]

an underexaggeration on my part then, you get the point though

[chilly granite]

there is a degree of skill floor that in unavoidable but the skill floor should be as low as possible while keeping the skill ceiling as high as possible

the problem with hologram mechanics like iana in r6s or halo hologram, is that it becomes useless against high levl players (not even the 50th percentile, the 75th percentile/top 25% of players) but can make the game super painful for newer players

the skilll ceiling on a hologram is not high

and the skill floor for countering it is higher than the skill ceiling on it

[kindred gorge]

Then worst case it can sit in fun to use obscurity with turret ig, but it would be a fun mechanic to play with. Throwing an extra body on a cashout, body blocking in a head on fight, checking where pokers are set up

lowkey could be very funny for sniper duels that happen all the time in stuff like power shift and point break

[chilly granite]

the skill floor for using it is lower than the skill floor for countering it, whcih is another issuse

[kindred gorge]

could you not realistically say the same thing about dash or goo gun

[chilly granite]

dash, asboslutely, which is why i'm always asking for it to be nerfed so the skill floor for counteirng it is lower

[unkempt moss]

Hey, guys. At least its still the finals we all know and love.

[chilly granite]

I really hate playing medium but I'm gonna do it so that the stats reflect the power of the cb

[serene glade]

you should play cl40 so you can understand how horrible it is

[serene glade]

AMAAAAAZING GRAAAACCEEEE. HOW SWEEEEEEEEEET THE SOUUUUUUND

[sudden pewter]

I didn’t like Finals Football last time and I don’t see myself liking it this time either

[chilly granite]

cl40 has the same skill floor/skillfloor to counter issue

[eager wasp]

its so good, but they kinda ruined the flow by removing a jumppad in the middle of the map

feels a bit sluggish now with the lack of movement

[sudden pewter]

So it’s significantly worse than last time

[eager wasp]

my dagger xp grinder has been nerfed, now i gotta put in work for those 40 kills

[sudden pewter]

An already low bar lowered further. Splendid

[eager wasp]

yeah, it tanked the ratings down a bit, i don't know why they did that, it wasn't a problem

now i just have to hope that my team picks mediums, which they aren't bc even in a gamemode where light has a weapon noones good at, and noone likes, it still is the most picked class

still very fun, just frustrating trying to get around the map when i have a singular dash and no jumppads or zips

[unkempt moss]

I loved Cashball last time.

I was hoping to improved it some, but it seems like they dulled it down. Many such cases.

[sudden pewter]

I couldn’t stand it, ruined by Light and unfortunately too different for the majority of players to understand

Definitely skipping

[stoic garden]

are there even any rewards for doing it this time

[eager wasp]

no

[stoic garden]

100% skipping

[eager wasp]

no rewards, and they took away my beloved jumppad, how cruel of them bro

[sudden pewter]

No free rewards to entice players to maintain engagement with the LTM. And we’re getting a valentines mini-BP instead of a free wheel. Very interesting moves from Embark

[eager wasp]

it definitely is a tiny bit of a let down, but im still gonna grind it, bc i love the sweet sweet dagger xp

[unkempt moss]

We crushed on Heavy Medium simply because of heavy throw range. Power dunking on lights is amazing.

[sudden pewter]

I’m going to skip this LTM completely and perhaps take a break to play other games for a week. Hopefully we’ll see meaningful additions/changes sooner rather than later. Games been dry AF for a while now which is super sad after all the positive QoL S9 brought with it

[unkempt moss]

Ive been moved on from the finals. It was actually nice that I had to be reminded of the patch today. They seem think the game is functioning exactly how it needs to. All the communication we need is the fact that nothing changes.

[sudden pewter]

Stop being such a bore bro!!!1!1! They’ll fix everything next season 100%
Melee weapons will be reworked, more QoL, server issues will be remedied, new toys!!!

Consume the slop my sibling.

https://tenor.com/view/hog-hog-slop-sloppy-slop-pig-gif-27581143

And don’t forget to buy the valentines pass!!!

[unkempt moss]

Cash ball would have been enough to bring me back usually. But its almost embarrassing to play this game

Also why do I keep seeing cashball only lasts three days? Aren't they usually a two week thing.

[sudden pewter]

Still waiting for a Black Cat Tail 😔

[sudden pewter]

It’s for this weekend, I’m assuming Super Bowl related? Idk

Maybe Embark just needed a slot filler, not like they’ll communicate about it

[unkempt moss]

Weird.

[sudden pewter]

“Hello, this is Nexon. We’ve noticed big event America is happening and you don’t have anything related to it. Fix that.”

[unkempt moss]

I know i doom a lot. But it really does feel like abandonware every Thursday

[sudden pewter]

If the skins were at least decent I’d be less upset, but it’s just textureswap shit.

Does anybody actually like cardboard weapons?

[unkempt moss]

But its ospuze!

[sudden pewter]

More like Ospoo-ze. Gottem

[unkempt moss]

Ill be honest I dont even know if ive ever seen the cardboard weapons in the wild.

Maybe the riot shield

[sudden pewter]

Still waiting for 3 seasons now for ANYTHING AlfaActa themed/branded

[unkempt moss]

AA couldn't top what they already gave us.

[sudden pewter]

Meanwhile Ospuze gets its 100th cosmetic

[unkempt moss]

Only backwards cap in the game means its a staple for Mr. FINALS.

[sudden pewter]

Fake and you know it. European Plate with Damascus staining like camo pattern

Repurpose those shitty fucking ESport team effects and make them sponsors. Lemme have the AA Star behind my contestants head

[eager wasp]

what.

they better fucking not, this better be a week long, two week long event, i swear the one event i enjoy, they better not take away from me that fast

[vast cedar]

Why is it when I get shot by cl the hit indicator is the complete opposite from where they shot me or some times it will show right but why does that happen?

[sudden pewter]

Just for this weekend

[sudden pewter]

The damage indicator is coming from the grenade, it may be indicating you’re being shot from behind due to the nature of splash damage even though the enemy may be in front of you.

[spring spear]

ive been trying other multiplayer shooters myself
i still logged in to see the new weekly challenges and theres yet another "do 15 daily quests" challenge

[serene glade]

Embark really is just a broken clock, but at this point i think they ripped off the hands

[spring spear]

ranked is miserable and I'm already em1 on wt so there's no reason for me to keep playing since i dont care about player levels and equipment levels take way too fucking long

[sudden pewter]

Nah bro they’re just on New Years break. Took almost a full month but surely they’re back now and can continue to disappoint at full capacity now

[unkempt moss]

When I see slopshooters getting big updates its very disheartening

[serene glade]

i wish i was still on Christmas break wtf

[sudden pewter]

Swedes get insane time off

[unkempt moss]

I tried everything. Playing light dagger for some new feelings. Played more light this season than the other 8 combined

[spring spear]

i mean you cant pay me enough to play CoD i've been tryng Strinova mostly and I have to say it does actually fix a lot of the issues I have with the tactical shooter genre so long as you stay off the Demolition gamemode although it is a hero shooter slop so to speak

I'm gonna try Fragpunk next, I wish Halo Infinite still had a decent playerbase because atm it's impossible to get a game in europe outside of firefight

and i do like firefight but i just wanna play pvp aswell

[unkempt moss]

I like hero shooters. Ill try and can enjoy pretty much any style of game. I played Halo like crazy for a bit, got to onyx and then stopped

[serene glade]

i think ive grown out of shooters entirely, and the finals was the only shooter that i really cared about playing. but seeing slopshooters get updates and try while we have whatever the fuck this is. I mean even arc raiders is getting a fucking roadmap. and all im getting is my asshole stretched constantly by the finals team

[sudden pewter]

Arc Raiders has a different team, likely a better funded and more organized team which is wild given how old The Finals is. With how much we’re being Nickel & Dimed as of late you’d think they’d have more to show for it tbh

But still no communication 🤷‍♂️

[unkempt moss]

I wish i liked the art style for frag punk. The rogue lite elements seem interesting.

[sudden pewter]

Don’t worry though some dude reported Embark to the BBB so surely something huge and major will happen soon

[spring spear]

I'm mixed on them, there is at least some versatility in Strinova since passive skills you get aswell as your secondary and gadgets are up to the player and the 'ults' dont have nearly as much impact on the game as something like overwatch so for now I'm having fun but its monetization is horrible so I wont spend a dime on it LOL

[sudden pewter]

Any updates?

[unkempt moss]

I always wrote it off as anime slop. Maybe I'll make googs download it.

Give it a rip.

[spring spear]

It is VERY anime slop

[sudden pewter]

You should try MMO’s. Games that actually want to keep you engaged beyond Weekly Challenges

[spring spear]

But I think it is worth a try because it actually does some unique stuff with the genre its in, plus third person shooters arent exactly common nowadays, let alone multiplayer ones

[unkempt moss]

I played ff14 for a long long time.

I lived my raid and savage life.

[spring spear]

as for fragpunk I actually like the artstyle but I have yet to play a single game of it to have an opinion on it
honestly i'm willing to give even highguard a try atm

[sudden pewter]

I couldn’t get into FFXIV. Too deep into ESO.

[unkempt moss]

Going to be sad when all the wepsNgadg people disperse because of embark

[sudden pewter]

Speaking of, old leadership were tossed out and the new leadership came out the gates dicks swinging fixing longstanding issues and responding to player feedback

I’ve never been more optimistic for a games future than I am for ESO at this moment. Really hope Embark cleans up

Nah they don’t even need to clean up, just communicate FFS

[eager wasp]

i atleast was able to hit my goal of a 40kill game atleast once before the event ended, im happy

[chilly granite]

the problem with the cl40 is that it takes nearly no skill to get "some" value from it, and the way to counter it isn't obvious to players who haven't played vs a similar weapon in a similar game

so weak players vs weak players find it's a strong weapon

but strong vs strong find that it's crap

and if you mmake it viable for strong players vs strong players it will dominate in low level games

[unkempt moss]

I don't think googs has ever played an mmo. Maybe i pop his cherry.

[serene glade]

[sudden pewter]

I miss Planetside2

[serene glade]

ive played old republic

[unkempt moss]

You can never go back once you've played your first mmo.

Did you play it seriously?

[serene glade]

for like a week maybe

[unkempt moss]

We have an rpg to get set up.

[spring spear]

apparently the balance on that nowadays is even worse than the balance in any other shooter by far

[serene glade]

thats the real answer

[sudden pewter]

Reworking Sunderers and Infiltrators (two of the biggest fight factors in the game) with a fraction of the playerbase has had drastic consequences

[unkempt moss]

You know what shooter i want to come back. Tribes.

[sudden pewter]

I remember the game fondly but it’s like watching the withered form of a loved one

Isn’t Tribes dead now because Blizzard? Or am I misremembering

[unkempt moss]

I think it was high rez

[serene glade]

you guys think they are gonna drop a new spore soon?

[sudden pewter]

Yesss High Rez

Paladins my beloved
I was top 3% Maeve player worldwide
I achieved GrandMaster rank

[spring spear]

tribes 3 is out and its awful
ascend isnt even on the steam store anymore, hi rez was making too much money off of smite to care

[sudden pewter]

Smite is still around???

[spring spear]

theyre making a sequel

[serene glade]

paladins was honestly fun

[spring spear]

in my desperate attempt at finding a new shooter to play i tried apex again but man battle royale is just such a shit gamemode

[sudden pewter]

Paladins shit fat fucking logs on Overwatch but had not even 1/3 the budget or marketing

[sudden pewter]

We will never get TF3 until Apex dies.

[spring spear]

highguard is your tf3

[sudden pewter]

Don’t say that…

[spring spear]

Even if Apex were to die I don't trust a titanfall 3 to be good

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, the talent behind it is long gone

[serene glade]

i love apex gunplay, BR is a let down. I do enjoy the like macro aspect of it but at the same time if you dont have a lobby playing for macro then its boring. also controller being as strong as it is makes it not enjoyable to play

[spring spear]

Modern EA might not be as bad as old EA but they still care about money first and foremost
They would 100% try to add some bullshit gimmicks and gamemodes and whatnot

[sudden pewter]

Modern EA belongs to the Arabs now so I suspect we’ll get more of the same but with Hijab cosmetics and maybe more “women are property” rhetoric

[spring spear]

oh god i forgot

i was born in spain to spanish parents and if you know your history you know everything i can say about that so i won't go further

[sudden pewter]

Glad EA finally went under.
Sad it was saved from the Punji Pit by the worlds equivalent of Dr.Evil

[spring spear]

honestly you say that, but if EA goes under, even worse companies can pick up their IPs

imagine if, for example, tencent of all companies picked up dead space
or ubisoft picked up titanfall/apex

[sudden pewter]

If Ubisoft picked up TF at least I could rest knowing the series is dead

Opposed to a SlopShooter parading around wearing its corpse

My younger sibling is obsessed with Apex and has never played either Titanfall entry

[unkempt moss]

BombKing. My mgl rework.

[sudden pewter]

Bad. Stop.

https://tenor.com/view/test-spray-testing-gif-12514630

[spring spear]

that is 90% of the apex playerbase

[sudden pewter]

Apex used to have a style and now it’s a visual clusterfuck of anime skins, cat pajamas, glowing neon greebles, etc.

But the “game” is just an avenue to sell skins so idk what I expected. Smelled it a mile away

I say this on The Finals discord. The irony isn’t lost on me

[vast cedar]

that's so dumb and confusing as a heavy barricade main if I get shot my first thing i do if dome is on cd is place a barricade from where i was getting shot from

[sudden pewter]

You wouldn’t be a console player, would you?

[vast cedar]

Yeah is obvious

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, it is

Try not to rely on the indicator, CL40 is pretty loud

[unkempt moss]

BombKing was peak explosives character. His movement. Rewarding accuracy for a slow projectile with insane damage.

I will not have the Kings name slandered here.

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, he was my main dedicated DPS

But manual detonation is not good for the MGL. We’ve been over this

[unkempt moss]

It would be. Ill die on that hill.

The MGL playing like BombKing primary would be an absolute treat in the finals.

Eventually embarks incompetence will have you begging for gouf patch. I only need wait for that day.

The GOUF heavy is both balanced and fun.

[sudden pewter]

GOUF Heavy isn’t my Heavy so I’m uninterested 😔

Manually detonating the grenades gets rid of its one weakness (reliance on bounce)

[unkempt moss]

Sure it is. Because its a document in which ive taken input from everyone to make it better. Including you fella

It trades that weakness for another. It's not just a direct upgrade

[sudden pewter]

blows your head up with my mind

[serene glade]

Mgl bouncing off mesh shield and dome shield even after bouncing into it is elite balance and design. I'm invading sweden, that it. Last fucking straw

[unkempt moss]

Its fine. The game will stay how you want it, friend. Embark loves not changing things.

They just wont communicate that they are doing that.

[serene glade]

You think they'll add the cinematic grapple where you grab a light by the back of the neck

[sudden pewter]

Embark is working on adding finisher animations because now QM from behind assasinates contestants Halo style

Can’t wait to make Lights bite the curb

I genuinely believe there’s ultimately an apex state of balance achievable by Embark, but in their hubris they’ll see some weapons being more popular than others and assume there’s problems where there are none

“Our data indicates Sniper rifle isn’t as popular as the M11 so we’ve given it 100% hipfire accuracy without adjusting Lights shotgun options”

[unkempt moss]

They should just give the sniper a master key. That would fix it.

[sudden pewter]

They should just give it Uranium rounds so even glancing blows poison the target and they die several months later of Pancreatic cancer

[unkempt moss]

I think they used those on their game already.

[sudden pewter]

That’s the microplastics

[unkempt moss]

Oh. True.

As I said before, the want for a 2.0 comes from the game dev team seeming to have completely lost the plot. I'd be fine if things stayed the same but were just working better.

[sudden pewter]

The game needs changes, that’s inarguable.

[unkempt moss]

Its not fun to properly balance the game in its current state but im absolutely sure I could do it. So I am sure they could too with even a small amount of effort.

[sudden pewter]

If they fucking communicated things would be more tolerable regardless

“Yeah we’ve been out of the office for 2 months sorry about that. Balance changes next month”

“We have no idea what to do with melee weapons, we’ve opened a channel exclusively available to green roles to filter out the unmentionables. Go wild.”

[unkempt moss]

It does make me laugh that people in here have been pinging them and they won't even communicate with "knock that off please"

[sudden pewter]

“We have 3 dudes that came in today with the sole purpose of QoL, what are some things you’d like them to work on”

[sudden pewter]

Mods used to do that for them, but they can’t be bothered anymore

I imagine #💥┇spawn-point and #⚡┇the-finals-chat keep them busy but I haven’t poked my nose in there for quite some time

[sudden pewter]

I’d like to see the hotkey to play opt-in kill cam and “ask for revive” bindable.

[unkempt moss]

I don't even know what qol things I want in.

I don't think about it much.

[sudden pewter]

Brainstorm

I can’t ask for a revive because I bound my ping to Q. Which is fucking stupid.

I also can’t play KillCam even though I opt in, so I’m forced to have it auto-play

[kindred gorge]

Oh you can’t rebind it?

[sudden pewter]

Nope, whatever key it’s bound to by default is being used by something else. Unfortunately it can’t be rebound to anything else as it isn’t in the options :))

[kindred gorge]

But yeah I can’t tell you how many times I’ve accidentally hit a button and it locked me out of watching the kill cam even when I wanted to

[sudden pewter]

Aside from “let me rebind basic functions” I’d like to see communication tools brought out of the dark age. This shit was figured out 20 years ago there’s no reason we’re so far behind

Basic messaging. Lemme send a “Hey when you’re done with that match wanna play Cashout” to a friend.

[unkempt moss]

They sure got "buy shit for your friend" figured out with some haste

[unkempt moss]

Store, outfits, buying all have gotten a ton of changes now that I think about it.

[sudden pewter]

Clubs are also essentially unchanged since launch. It was a tacked on feature that does little other than grant extra XP for playing with friends, two additional daily bounties, and a cosmetic tag. Cut out the middleman, grant XP for forming parties period and do something with clubs FFS

[unkempt moss]

Daily club bounties dont even count towards circuit goals. Which is dumb.

[kindred gorge]

I mean to be fair that’s kinda the extent of clubs in most games isn’t it

An identifier, more people to play with and maybe something xp related

[unkempt moss]

I have a QoL change. At the beginning of a match, when im switching stuff around. Give me a "apply to loadout" button so my changes dont revert after the match. That way when I go to play another round and im in the bathroom I'm not SoL on my spec and gadgets.

[sudden pewter]

Clubs are so off Embarks radar they haven’t even added PointBreak as a favored gamemode in the club system

They just, forgot to add it. 🤣

[unkempt moss]

Thats insane

[sudden pewter]

Check right now. It isn’t there

[kindred gorge]

No they just knew no one would ever prefer point break

[chilly granite]

lmao like half my friends would throw hands on that comment

[unkempt moss]

I believe you without even having to check. That sounds very embark.

[sudden pewter]

Clubs and other social features need work, we’re stuck in the Stone Age for no reason

[kindred gorge]

I do jest, I’m a massive battlefield fan. But it’s kind of a “I want to play finals without playing the finals” type deal

It gives a break from suffering through cashout

[unkempt moss]

I think point break is making more of a dent in ranked than they care to admit.

[kindred gorge]

Really? Cool

Maybe they should add other battlefield game modes too then

How much cash do you get for winning point break?

[broken mulch]

where'd u see this

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/senator-armstrong-source-i-made-it-up-sauce-take-that-gif-26625795

[broken mulch]

theres no way thats real right?

oh alr, with the way balance was goin i was startin to wonder

[sudden pewter]

Same bro

Also Point Break fucks. As a gamemode it’s sound (Embark didn’t playtest and it shows) but as with any gamemode relies on decent players

[kindred gorge]

If they did it would have to be health based

[sudden pewter]

If your team folds like paper ofc you won’t have a good time. But when the teams are evenly matched it’s ungodly amounts of fun

[unkempt moss]

Maybe thats the change in need from the finals. To not play cashout

[kindred gorge]

But that also kinda just invalidates knife

[sudden pewter]

Knife was invalidated after S1. It’s a remnant of an experimental age of the game

[chilly granite]

good take

I mean it must be that the cb isn't seeing enough usage for them to think it's op despite it obviosuly being disgusting

the problem with the cb is that it's just super fukcing boring to use, so only tryhards are willing to use it at all

[unkempt moss]

I love nife now.

This season made me a nife player

[sudden pewter]

That’s fine, just don’t:

• Expect it to be viable in every situation
• Expect the hitreg to behave appropriately
• Make it the entire reason you play the game

[unkempt moss]

Oh its dogshit, but its different enough to get me back in to the game long enough finish the battlepass.

[sudden pewter]

I only intend to finish the Ospuze bonus page

[unkempt moss]

I'll be returning at the end of the season to finish circuits.

[sudden pewter]

I only care for the Ospuze Minigun tbh

I’ll probably finish my placements in the final week of the season

Whatever I get, I get.

[spice valley]

https://x.com/i/status/2019474211044024615

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/wawa-emdeb-fail-failure-cat-gif-16703817715131368982

Garbage goes in #💥┇spawn-point

[stoic garden]

it aint even good ngl

[sudden pewter]

Aye, but I have an Ospuze Heavy contestant Id like to remain thematically consistent with

Not like I’m going to drop it the moment an Eclipse Shade skin comes out anyway

[unkempt moss]

Its crazy to me you dont run the AA mini. It looks so good.

[sudden pewter]

I do? The AA Mini and the Mythic are the two I randomize between currently

[compact tundra]

@chilly granite

Do you know what any of the @ embarks jobs are, you seemed to know who the head of marketing Was so I figured you're good to ask

[unkempt moss]

Do you have multiple minigun outfits?

[sudden pewter]

Yeah? It’s my favorite weapon in the game

[unkempt moss]

I build an outfit around each weapon.

[sudden pewter]

I’ve got the Dissun Dawg, AA OP.

I try to theme each of my builds and have gadget/weapon skins fit

[unkempt moss]

Thats what I do as well.

Ms. Finals is my buff Asian muscle mommy that works for AA.

She's my Minigun outfit.

[sudden pewter]

I wish outfits had an easier method of tie ing skins to them

[unkempt moss]

I lied. My standard Mr. Finals runs like 4 weapons.

Hes a KS main though.

[sudden pewter]

I have a KS Build and I’m waiting for an Eclipse Shade skin for it

[unkempt moss]

Is the drip channel worth posting in? It seems like a lot of the same stuff but with different hair and skin color

[sudden pewter]

No, it’s 90% shitty anime contestants and very rarely anything worth looking at

[unkempt moss]

WepsNgadg stays winning

[sudden pewter]

This though….. this does it for me 🥵

[unkempt moss]

King is a jaguar though

[sudden pewter]

This is a Tiger

[unkempt moss]

He said female king

[sudden pewter]

He is stupid

[unkempt moss]

I think I've seen too much of the ospuze crop at this point.

[sudden pewter]

As a fan of Venus Belly I’m on board with it. Shame Ospuze gets the best sponsor drip yet again

Iseult is a dedicated fashion brand and has shittier cosmetics than an Argentina based drink company

[chilly granite]

I just clicked through them seeing if they have a name

pretty sure embark christian is the ceo

[unkempt moss]

My outfit talents would be wasted in drip check

[serene glade]

Bro you don't think black jacket with skull mask is badass!?

[sudden pewter]

Anime Contestant with random shit thrown on #392826

[unkempt moss]

I write too much lore for my skins to be appreciated. Every word and outfit piece a brush stroke

No shot Mr. FINALS in the digiverse gets play there

Grandpa Finals doesnt even get an emote.

[analog pewter]

my posts are good :)

[unkempt moss]

Post your best

[analog pewter]

does c4 count for the mine challenge?

[shell sonnet]

is cashball still just single lights doing dash launches to farm points?

[analog pewter]

sure

other ones i sometimes have in rotation

[lucid cave]

💀

[unkempt moss]

I ran something similar to the orange floral and black jeans when I was a holtow sponsoree. Very clean

[chilly granite]

@unkempt moss gonna try sf6 demo cuz im so tilted form patch

like insult to injury they add a paid battlepass with the ugliest shitty reskins and a bow that's strung the wrong way around

[brave knoll]

I think toxic weapons like the grenade launcher, flamethrower, and some melee weapons should be removed from the main modes. The game would be much more fun and less frustrating than watching someone jump and spam grenades. I see that very often the weapon wins

[unkempt moss]

Let me know what you think

[sudden pewter]

I think you should release the files uncensored

[unkempt moss]

The gouf patch isn't for public consumption these days

[sudden pewter]

I’m not public.

[unkempt moss]

Unfortunately I know you would hate it, bud.

[sudden pewter]

I’m sure it’s not all bad

[unkempt moss]

I'm not releasing it so it can be publicly executed.

[sudden pewter]

The mud will reclaim you sooner or later. Eventually we all return to the mire.

[unkempt moss]

One catter gif would guide the goons in to hating it.

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182330475386261536/1466625149104029696/graphing-ezgif.com-optimize.gif

[unkempt moss]

Its like a pavlovian response at this point.

[sudden pewter]

I wish I had such power over the sheeple.

The Piss Filter Old Man of Anguish and general Disbelief*

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

The final thing some people see before they’re executed for suggesting a BR mode

[unkempt moss]

The problem is I hadn't gotten to balancing all the light and medium weapons. Just the problem ones.

[sudden pewter]

Define “problem ones”.
Your trial begins now.

[unkempt moss]

This has ended many a career here on wepsNgadg

[sudden pewter]

Why did you respond “that’s our word, you can’t say that” when I referred to Lights as “Mongrel Dogs”

He’s running on all fours like a hound and I’m chasing him, all units live ammunition is allowed

[unkempt moss]

Depends on the problem. But things like sniper, CB, bfr, and mgl are all problem weapons. They just have different problems.

Problem to me means its something to be solved. Then, everything would need to be adjusted for those changes.

[analog pewter]

so theyre just not doing free event rewards anymore huh

[sudden pewter]

We don’t know that! (Because they refuse to communicate)

The TGM somewhat made sense to have a little mini BP. But valentines? Something doesn’t add up

Hopefully the player resentment forces Embarks hand and they have an impromptu AMA or stream of some sort where they fucking talk

[chilly granite]

wtf are these super art combos i gotta hit like 20 keys in the right order

it really seems to hate my keyboard i did the same thing 20 times and it eventualyl worked

[serene glade]

Youre probably just too slow on input? Because especially on keyboard it should be pretty quick to hit SD SD punch

[analog pewter]

the funny thing is the finals is maybe the only game where I could see a BR mode actually feeling fresh

[chilly granite]

do i not need to do S (sd) d, s sd d punch

[serene glade]

Keyboard is so comfy for fighting games, wanted to build a WASD fight stick but not worth the hassle. Ill just stick with my battop rn

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[serene glade]

It's just quarter circle forward quarter circle forward, so S, D, S, D punch should all you need if you're one p1 side. (Depends on super and character I guess but you get the idea)

[chilly granite]

hmm

I didn't dislike it but it seems to have a 60fps cap and I have a pretty bad headache

[serene glade]

Super inputs are universal for the most part in 6 with exceptions being like zangief and lily have 720 motion supers

Yeah capped at 60 fps is normal, everything is designed around that and moves are measured in frames

[chilly granite]

ugh that sucks, I get headaches/nausea at 60fps

[kindred gorge]

I think a free for all modification of bankit would be fun

[chilly granite]

I was still using a crt in 2018 cuz I was too broke for a high refresh lcd and I felt sick if I used a 60hz lcd hahahaha

[kindred gorge]

Obviously not one to one cause then cashing out would be impossible, it’d have to be a small map and more like you have to survive for a certain amount of time after picking up the money

[chilly granite]

lmao can u imagine if the devs had this mcuh foresight when they came up iwth solo bank it?

[kindred gorge]

I feel like you’d have to make the gadgets and guns universal to not screw certain classes over and that sounds like a balancing nightmare

[analog pewter]

i think they should do a mode like bag tag in timesplitters, where you gain points (money) for carrying the neutral objective around. in a team mode could be interesting, maybe 5v5? all about securing the cashbox, then having one person on your team hold onto it while the other 4 play defense
in this case since you're carrying it you can't really fight, so the scoring team is at a player disadvantage

[kindred gorge]

Can you imagine a heavy with light ttk

Or an invis sledgehammer omg

[kindred gorge]

There was a mode like this in halo, the carrier was locked out of their (I’m gonna just quote the finals equivalence here) specs, gadgets and guns but as a trade off they had a 1 hit kill melee. Sounds fun lowkey

When I’m in a hating contest and my opponent is #👂┇game-feedback

Like valid feedback or not the messages always have some side message of disgust so potent you’d think Embark started the 4th reich

[unkempt moss]

Its cute you think they give a shit. Theyve probably made plenty of money off of it already.

[sudden pewter]

They have to give a modicum of a shit because otherwise Nexon will have Oscar flogged.

[unkempt moss]

Oscar will be too busy on vacation to get flogged

[red pumice]

Oscar is not a Mojang dev he doesn’t take vacations every five minutes

[unkempt moss]

Do you think it would cannibalize deagles if you made the BFR more of like a close range gunfighter weapon?

[sudden pewter]

Deagles are NOT a close range gunfighter weapon

Even the hipfire is unreliable

[unkempt moss]

In a perfect world they would be.

[analog pewter]

deagles have a specific close-to-midrange where they shine and otherwise kinda stink

[unkempt moss]

Would this be clunky for a control set up on BFR. I think its a single action, the heavy has to action the hammer every time it fires.
M1 is the trigger, M2 is the hammer.

• Holding M2, pulls the hammer back and ADS normally. Giving better ranged capability with slow fire rate.
• Holding M1 pulls the trigger and holds it back. Then you can "fan the hammer" by clicking M2 for rapid fire with bloom.
  So fanning works like a reverse of ADS.

You can reduce the range as much as you need to make you feel better about the fanning set up having decent hipfire.

Or make the gun hybrid projectile.

[serene glade]

I think we just do 40m hitscan, dumb fuck

[analog pewter]

cashball kinda great for farming elims on the weekly

2 diff matches

[unborn pumice]

how to get gud at the 1887?

[analog pewter]

very deliberate aim

[unborn pumice]

(PC medic main)

[chilly granite]

play repeater because it's model but every number is better

[analog pewter]

play model over repeater only if you're a crackhead who likes to move and jump around while they shoot

[chilly granite]

literally not even true

the repeater hipfire spread pattern is dead straight/smaller than the model like half the time

[analog pewter]

model doesn't get less accurate in hipfire or airborne
repeater has bad hipfire and jumping makes its accuracy even while ADS worse

so you cant really fight with the repeater while mantling and maneuvering around terrain as well

[chilly granite]

in theory yes, but embark in their wisdom decided to make the spread pattern on the repeater a dot

[sudden pewter]

Deagles were OG Heavy Poke wdym

[analog pewter]

also model technically has higher DPS its STK breakpoints are just the same while firing slower. but its better vs healing for example

[chilly granite]

unless you hit a few headshots on the repeater, not even a lot

also that's hypothetical dps, if you hit all pellets within 15m

two pellets missed per shot and you're always worse off than the repeater

[analog pewter]

you're a light main

[chilly granite]

yup and I played repeater noscope only earlier and went positive lol

and I didn't use my healing beam, goo or smoke grenade usefully even one time!

[analog pewter]

all you play is tdm lol you have literally no practical experience worth a damn

[sudden pewter]

TDM goes hard though

But absolutely not what the game is balanced around

[chilly granite]

I'm literally 25000rs rn

[analog pewter]

being able to play in hipfire means your ability to chase and alternate angles and shimmy are a lot better than repeater, you don't have to ADS so you can fire the moment you see someone, and if you don't suck at aiming you can get full damage at respectable range
I'm not saying model is better than repeater - it's NOT - but you're downplaying its strengths like a goober

[chilly granite]

and none of that changes how weapons directly compare

you don't need to ads because teh repeater spread is bugged and shoots dead straight

[analog pewter]

26k with a high of gold 1 CHECKMATE YA LOOOOOOSEEEEEE

[chilly granite]

I'm playing grapple bow flash null sonar

[analog pewter]

not playing much ranked tho it's annoying

[chilly granite]

I don't think you can checkmate me if I get better than silver 1 with that loadout lmao

[analog pewter]

he's such a downplayer......

[chilly granite]

anyway seriously go pracrtice range and test the repeaters hipfire

its bugged

[analog pewter]

i have it's not great lol

i guess ill double check it

[chilly granite]

it's not great 1/3 the time, and then it's exceleent 2/3rds the time

and reloading swaps which one you get so, miss once, reload and try again

and then you have perfect spread for an entire mag

[analog pewter]

this is like some 2005 era urban legend shit

[stoic garden]

except it's real

[chilly granite]

I fucking wish it was an urban legend

[analog pewter]

wtf he's not lying

[stoic garden]

it's a really stupid bug

[chilly granite]

HAYHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
S

SUU

UUCKCKK

MYYYY

NUUTUUTS

[analog pewter]

wtf it also spreads in a consistent circle

[stoic garden]

see that

[chilly granite]

(SMALLER THAN THE MODEL BTW)

Anyway I respect a model player, but the repeater has literally every number better

the only problem is that if you play repeater you lose your soul

[analog pewter]

its actually slightly larger than the model

[chilly granite]

there's 3 small patterns, small, very small, and dead straight

that's the small one I think

there's three big patterns, circle, other circle, and random circle

[analog pewter]

ok but if you have the hipfire mag it still blooms like fuck while aiming and while moving

[chilly granite]

yes, but the good mag is only a reload away

[analog pewter]

thats the smallest I've gotten it

[chilly granite]

Which is also asinine

there's one which is literally dead straight, it's dead on xhair first shot, literally no bloom

[analog pewter]

oh i just got a smaller one
completely RNG lmao I LOVE GAMBLINGGGGG

[analog pewter]

oh there it is
bro how did they do this
lmao it doesn't have this bug while jumping though ??

[broken mulch]

how do u nerf somethings close range capabilities anyways, we dont have damage ramp up

[chilly granite]

it does have the bug while jumping

[analog pewter]

the jump bloom is normal

[chilly granite]

I mean, the fact it has these numbers in cqb is bad, let alone at distance

it doesn't need damage ramp up it just needs a nerf hammer?

[analog pewter]

yeah i tested it multiple times, when i got the smaller spread it's not small when jumping

[chilly granite]

Like, in falloff, it has a better ttk on light than a sr84 has on a medium

the jump bloom might be a different choice of pattern - but it has the same bug

[broken mulch]

yea its not great, but model revolver and repeater are all somewhat similare so i think itd be fine if model was the best of the 3 at cqc, revolver was the best at midrange, and repeater was the best at longer ranges

not a balance guy tho this could be a dumbass take

the only takes im confident on are my spear and sword takes

[chilly granite]

but fundamentally its numbers shoould not surpass the closer range options ever

[broken mulch]

no i 100% agree

[chilly granite]

if model has a ttk of 0.83 onlighht

then revolver bodyshots should be 0.83+

and repaeter should be revolver bodyshots +

right now model is 0.83, peater is 0.75 and that's a generous estimate on the model

[broken mulch]

yea thats p much what i was thinking

[chilly granite]

and the revolver is 81 iirc

the model is the best balanced of the three

and should be used as a benchmark by which the other two are tuned

[analog pewter]

when was this bug introduced lmao

[chilly granite]

afaik it's not tehcnically a bug but a design decision

[analog pewter]

no the fuck it's not

[chilly granite]

spreads/recoil in finals are consistent patterns

they just choose reeally fucking stupid patterns for the repeater

[analog pewter]

immediately not true

it's true for ADS and shotguns, but not hipfire on single-bullet weapons

[chilly granite]

we don't technically know if it's not true for single bullet hipfires

if they just chose reasonable spread patterns for all the others it would just look like normall distrubition

[analog pewter]

just tested it with deagles, every spread pattern was different

[chilly granite]

deags mgiht just have more spreads than whatever

[analog pewter]

shak also, every pattern different

[chilly granite]

are u reloading between shots

[analog pewter]

yes
famas also

[chilly granite]

bfr, lh1, sr84 are the important comparisons

[analog pewter]

LH1 is even more extreme, the actual muzzle climb was different

but yeah the LH1 spread is random for sure

[chilly granite]

similar behavioru on bfr but it seems to have more patterns and more reasonable patterns

[analog pewter]

revolver is random

[chilly granite]

do whole mag samples

and compare the patterns of a whole mag

[analog pewter]

i am, im magdumping and comparing

[chilly granite]

bfr is 100% not random

I've had same pattern twice

[analog pewter]

im not seeing the same bug on bfr, looks random to me

[chilly granite]

you need to shoot enough mags to have sampled all the patterns

have you seen this one?

[sudden pewter]

I’m going to Vegas I’ll see you guys in a week 💋

[chilly granite]

second time getting this pattern

[analog pewter]

ive dumped maybe 10 mags and seen none of the same

[analog pewter]

that's purely within random variance bro ngl
especially when putting only 5 rounds downrange for each pattern

[chilly granite]

it was the same order of shots

same locations same order

there does seem to be a lot more patterns, but the odds of the same locations in the same order is like, tiny

there seem to be a rotated set of the same patterns too

[analog pewter]

i really dont think it's a fixed pattern lol even in that example there's major variance, the tail is slanted to the right instead of left, the wings are further apart

[chilly granite]

there are two seperate patterns

[analog pewter]

you're reading tea leaves bro

[chilly granite]

I wasn't trying to say those two are the same, sorry if that was unclear

it is possible I'm reading tealeaves but for this is sus

[analog pewter]

the repeater is clearly broken and the only one not doing RNG patterns imo, like i cant see any consistency in the BFR

[chilly granite]

the reppeater extremely obviously fucked

[analog pewter]

if the BFR DID have patterns i wouldnt be surprised since it's probably based on the repeater code, but no other weapon has any consistency as far as ive seen

lemme test pike for good measure

[chilly granite]

I litearlly just got the repeaters hexagon pattern from tapfiring the deags

[analog pewter]

septagon*

[chilly granite]

idk maybe that was just random it seems real random now lmao

[analog pewter]

yea im double checking them and just gettin rng

[chilly granite]

no

the deags is always a kinda yin yang shape

[analog pewter]

done it both spam firing and waiting for reset

[analog pewter]

i wouldnt be surprised if they made it so the left and right guns bias to the left and right side of the spread
but it's def functionally random

[analog pewter]

i mean....

[chilly granite]

nah I just had a left shot go hard right

I think I just had some weird luck tbh

[analog pewter]

would be a funny feature tho

[analog pewter]

one thing i kinda wish they did was give the gun two crosshairs that are both more accurate

[chilly granite]

no this is for sure a fkn yin yang shape

ok the last one I shot was entirely random lol

I'm 80% sure that it's pulling from a database of patterns but I htink there's too many to prove it wihotut levels of pain I'm not prepared to live throuhg

I aboslutely got this bfr pattern before

This is the same one I got earlier, but upside down and inverted order

before it was center, center, right left center

this was center, left right center center

I'm 99999% sure

[analog pewter]

i think with 5 shots you're gonna start seeing similar patterns after enough time

[chilly granite]

the probability of a 3 dead center hits is so low with a normal distribution on a spread this size

[analog pewter]

honestly not that low
i got a couple similar to that
well, with 2-3 dead center anyways

[chilly granite]

if I'm right, then it's not a normal distribution, it's a pattern, so you would get a bunch similar

[indigo nexus]

I don’t know exactly how spread works but I’m pretty sure it’s not a normal distribution

[chilly granite]

I mean, normal distribution is how most games do it, but it 100% can't be how they do it in finals

[analog pewter]

if they're first determining distance from the center and then the rotation, then all RNG seeds that set distance close to or at 0 will also place the bullet at the center regardless of rotation, so the center is kind of one of the more likely areas for a bullet to land on.

I'm making assumptions on how they do math for hipfire tho, but it would make sense given the repeater has varying distances but a consistent rotational pattern, which tells me distance and rotation are separate parameters and it's the rotation that is bugged and giving predictable outputs

[indigo nexus]

I guess I wouldn’t know about most games, but since we have an explicit spread circle and the bias towards the center isn’t that strict it would seem not

[chilly granite]

the odds of this is infantesimal

[indigo nexus]

please annotate your screenshots with exactly what about them is the meaningful part

[chilly granite]

spread size of context, 4/5 shots were within a width of my crosshair which is a very small portion of total spread area

this was a Y shape, it started fading, but it's like the 10th time I've had a straight line with 1 slightly offset

tetromino pattern

that last one very much might be reading tea leaves

[unkempt moss]

You can't leave me here with the kids.

[analog pewter]

theory: when calculating the bullet trajectory, they have two variables: rotation, and distance from the center of the screen (as a proportion of max hipfire spread-out). These variables are independent one another. The bug is causing the distance to be locked and the rotation to follow a predictable pattern rather than being selected randomly, but the distance is still set at random, and something is causing the distance variable to be locked. That something is reset upon reload, causing a new value to lock in.

i think they're doing the distance-rotation for two reasons. 1: it's the easiest way to ensure a circular spread pattern (a fixed distance from a center point produces a circle), and 2. because when you hipfire other weapons it's more common than you'd expect for those shots to hit the center of the reticle, which would align with a distance-rotation model since any distance that's low or 0 would hit at the center reticle regardles of rotation.

[chilly granite]

theory: there's a file of spread patterns, which are then randomly rotated

the repeaters patterns are all circular, so the random rotation isn't notable/doesn't produce real randomness

other weapons patterns are non-circular, so random rotation produces random appearances

[analog pewter]

im calling tea leaves on that one

[chilly granite]

I just got a rotated tetronimo

[indigo nexus]

Have you gotten any clear side by side comparisons for this

[chilly granite]

Sorry I moved before I screenshotted so it doesn't look the same

[indigo nexus]

getting two shapes that can look kinda similar wouldn’t cut it

[chilly granite]

the shot order on teh tetromino was the same

[indigo nexus]

really want to be able to overlay them on top of each other and see it clearly

[sudden pewter]

Use my gifs wisely

[chilly granite]

let me record

can someone test the sr84 while i test bfr?

[unkempt moss]

This is what my epic idea was dumpstered for. Unreal

[chilly granite]

ok

I'm getting a headache

[stoic garden]

ok

[chilly granite]

the shot patterns and order are def not random

[stoic garden]

truly there cannot be true random

[chilly granite]

i keep seeing the same patterns in the same order

[stoic garden]

the patterns bow kun what do they mean

[chilly granite]

I think there's a scale factor on it

[stoic lotus]

I can’t draw but I have a skin idea

[chilly granite]

nobody cares about skins here go to drip check

slightly offcenter because of the reload animation

but the tetromino shape is identical

about as clean as I can get it

it's a damn near mirror image

@analog pewter sr84 just did a dead center + pentagon surround for me

now I might be infected by tea leaves, but the sr84's patterns seem to look alot like the bfr

AGAIN

[analog pewter]

looks too wonky, def rng

[chilly granite]

there was one in the top right too, opposit ebottom left

I'm pretty sure this is rotated version of the one i poste arler

[civic salmon]

So I didn't see it in the patch notes but I guess riot shield at some point was changed to only be a % chance to block dmg even tho it plays the sound it blocked, it'll still go thru. I don't feel like doin this long enough to actually get a % nuimber but if I had to guess itd be around 35% chance to block. Also doesnt block dmg from thrown things, so is a riot guy being annoying? jus beat em to death with a healing emitter I guess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0StRoI3e4c

[chilly granite]

bug reports my frined

[civic salmon]

Ive also posted there a few weeks ago, got no reply. So I was jus really posting here so other people could know an then adapt to the state of the weapon as needed.

[chilly granite]

anyway I'm 95% sure there is no random spread

I'm getting the same shapes from the v9s when I tap out 5 shots

there's a default spread pool and the repeater isn't using it

v9s just did the sr84 one

the other one's im seeing most consistently are glider shape and tetrominoe

and big dipper/wheelbarrorw

[analog pewter]

literally reading constellations

[chilly granite]

try tapping out 5 over and over again on the v9s

I can confirm the repeater's spread is rotationally inconsistent (the start point varies but the pattern remains the same)

I can also confirm it reselects pattern if you don't fire at rate of fire limit

sterrible screenshot but the revolver did identical pattern to sr84 earlier

tetrominoe + extra shot

the extra shot doesn't fit the pattern of bfr tetronimonees

sr84's pentagon around dead center hit again

I'm pretty sure this is same again jsut rotated

revovler confirms hypothesis for me

SO the bug appears to be that the repeater is pulling from the wrong pool of spread patterns

I mean, the spread pattern not randomising on single fire weapons if you fire fast enough is a separate issue

But the repeater seems to be only pulling in these circular spread patterns, and then rotating them

Where the other weapons are using a much broader array of more complex spread patterns

The spread pattern system seems problematic to me in general

[analog pewter]

im still calling tea leaves on this

[chilly granite]

Did u test revolver at rof cap?

[analog pewter]

yes

[chilly granite]

What fov did u use? Cuz it was hard to tell for me on 83fov

[analog pewter]

i think like 105

[chilly granite]

The revolvers spread is small so it all fades into noise if you don't crank down the fov

[analog pewter]

also jesus you play at 83 fov 😭 tunnel vision type beat

[chilly granite]

83 is the same as 100fov 4:3

And I'm on potato graphics so I can't see people at distance without a lower fov

I struggle as it is on 83 fov

But 83 isn't that low, finals is vfov and most games list using either 4:3 hfov or hfov

Csgo and TF2 are 74 vfov for example

90 4:3 hfov

106 hfov in 16:9

Also I most just shoot my bow drawn not ads, and that's 74 vfov compared to 78vfov with 100 and iron sights

Looking glass with 100 fov is only 68 fov

I think there was probably a test set of spread patterns that got left in the game, and the repeater's defauletd to using them lol

man trying not to get elim'd in first round is so damn hard

[unkempt moss]

Just win bro

[chilly granite]

man

i just got 8th from first seed

my fellow light was not playing as a teammate except by trying to revive everyone in the worst possible place

HHHH

my light doubled by accident instead of hiding so we lost first round even thoguh i played excellent

[unkempt moss]

Where's your trio at?

[chilly granite]

asleep like I shoudl be hahahah

My last teammate told me to go play death match lmaoooo

[inner haven]

New gadget idea for medium:

One of the biggest issue with the medium class right now imo is how easy it is to dive the medium player and just explode them

The specialization idea I have will work similar to how the nullifier works. It will be a 2 seconds duration when activated. It can be canceled at anytime by the player giving the specialization some form of depth and mind game.

I believe this will synergies well with the medium kit and allow more exploration the other gadgets in the class instead of only relying on the goo grenade as the “get out of jail tool”

Cause right now, I feel like the class is heavily limited in how it can be played

Thoughts?!

[chilly granite]

Glitch trap

I swear do literally any mediums know what glitch trap is?

Btw medium wins DPS race Vs light and I think heavy if theyre glitched

[inner haven]

Brother glitch trap does not stop you from getting dived by a coordinated team lmao

[chilly granite]

(weapon depending)

So is it single target or aoe?

Because if you're being dived by a team, nulling one won't help

Gltiching all of them is substantially more powerful

[inner haven]

It will be similar yo how the nullifier works already in the game. You cant do damage while it active. You pop it and it will sort of allow you to reposition, and give that brief second window to strategize and coordinate instead of getting exploded by the light thats invis with a DB, or winched by a heavy

[chilly granite]

Regardless, every class dies to a coordinated dive. A coordinated dive will involve a glitch grenade, which breaks gateway and dash, the only way any class could realistically survive

[chilly granite]

You forgot to mention in your original post that you meant self targeting nullifier

[inner haven]

If medium had a glitch grenade that I would hear this but its a mine its stationery .

[inner haven]

I figured thats why I clarified

[chilly granite]

It's not that hard to place glitch mine in a bottleneck in cashout. What's your game mode?

I mean, self null would break the game on medium and would probably still be op on light.

Consider that a null of any duration can deny an RPG, a frag grenade, a winch claw

Medium has 66% more hp than light, very near equivalent DPS and only 30% larger hitbox

Give that class a skill equivalent to (arguably better than) evasive dash, and you have a problem

[inner haven]

Bro glitch mine is not as good or effective as you think it is. There are way better gadgets to run on the class that will ever make glitch mine as viable.

Say for example a heavy with a winch is on the cash out box, the heavy’s winch still have infinitely has more range than the glitch trap if they just avoid the 5m range or whatever of the glitvh trap

[inner haven]

Heavily disagree. I dont want a 3 charge specialization like dash does. It should be 1 charge with a relatively decent cooldown time.

[chilly granite]

Defibs, jump pad and goo are mandatory in ruby with a high skilled hml lineup

But if you're in llm or hhm, then you can drop defibs/goo respectively because you have lights/domeshields instead

And at that point, glitch is probably the highest value gadget medium has

[chilly granite]

I don't mean 3 charges, I mean power level

Evasive dash acts as a dodge for about 300ms or so

Your proposal would be 2s of controllable dodge

That would be incredibly overpowered

It doesn't thematically fit medium even if it was balanced

[inner haven]

And dash isn’t?

[chilly granite]

Light is meant to be annoying to kill, medium isn't

Dash is absolutely overpowered lol

Im like, the biggest dash hater in the server lmao

[inner haven]

It solves the biggest issue with the class. How does it not fit the class? Its not a hyper movement ability like light. I think that makes sense

[chilly granite]

Invis isn't hyper movement?

[inner haven]

Even if its not 2 secs maybe 1 sec

[chilly granite]

Null is a conceptual competitor to invisibility

[inner haven]

Am talking more so about the light specs like dash, grapple

[chilly granite]

And those aren't lights only specs

[inner haven]

Which fits the class cause thats the playstyle

[chilly granite]

Medium is not built around the expectation of damage reduction

Medium is balanced with the expectation that an Rpg will land for good damage

[inner haven]

Lol and light isn’t? I dont get what the point you tryna make here

[chilly granite]

Someone else can take over because I have a headache and need to sleep

But medium has way too much hp to recieve any kind of dodge or damage mitigation

A frag grenade does 93% light hp

And 56% medium hp

93*%

RPG is 73% and 44%

Fcar has 83% of the DPS of the m11

Medium is balanced around face tanking everything and medium is already significantly higher value than light in high MMR games

[inner haven]

The reason why medium class is heavily restricted in the pro scene is cause of how limited the kit in the class is if you truly want to win. Heavy and light have way more options at their disposal to compete. I think if you give the class an anti dive tool like I mentioned, that will open up so much more for the class.

I also believe embark is trying to rework the class in the future as well. One of the devs confirmed last year

[chilly granite]

Idk what your premises is and I have a headache so I'm gonna sleep

If medium gets reworked to 175 hp then null would make sense

[inner haven]

Its without a doubt the class at the worst spot atm

[chilly granite]

That is an insane take when light got one change and stopped getting played in ruby lobbies lol

That is an insane take in the repeater meta

[analog pewter]

https://klipy.com/gifs/guh-5

[chilly granite]

No literally face tanking, but not having evasive tools like dash, cloak, grapple and a self nullficistion

[analog pewter]

medium is arguably the easiest class to kill in a vacuum bc they have no peel and no self sustain. light has so many options to disengage or disable their opponent that medium doesn't have, medium is the least permitted to facetank anything bc they're the easiest to follow-up on

[chilly granite]

We saying same thing

The only reason medium can have 250hp is because they have no self sustain or peel

[analog pewter]

ah

[chilly granite]

If you give medium a self null spec for peel, then medium must have a significant hp nerf

[analog pewter]

i generally want medium to get a slight DPS buff to all weapons (other than repeater and revolver I reckon) and demat buff

DPS buff because they have a higher TTK with almost every weapon compared to the other classes. their damage output forces them into their quasi-support role and leaves them a little bit self-insufficient. they dont need to kill as fast as light but they should kill a little faster, I think. the reason repeater is so good rn is not because it's OP in the broad scheme of things but because it's the only weapon that medium has which kills as quickly as they need to be able to

demat buff because demat meta was way more fun and interesting

oh also no revolver DPS buff because its design is too polarizing to flat buff, I'd rather see it remain as-is or be reworked...

[chilly granite]

DPS buff is a crazy take fcar is 200dps

M11 240 for context

[analog pewter]

thats fair id take it on a weapon by weapon basis
model definitely needs higher DPS i think, faster cycle speed would save it

[chilly granite]

Model yes

[analog pewter]

melees could use a slight nudge up in their swing speed
AK could probably be a lil better
FAMAS needs nothing i forgot about that one, it's fine as-is too

[chilly granite]

Med weps that need buff:

Riot, model, duals

Nerf:

Peater, (probably revolver) famas

Ak is probably the goal/best balanced weapon on medium

Fcar and ak are extremely close

Revolver bodyshot ttks rivals model, when it can 2x headshot

[analog pewter]

CL-40 should have direct hits buffed and indirects nerfed, and have all of its (small amount of) bloom removed
and then fix projectile hitreg pls ....

I'd also give CL-40 one more in the tube with that change

[chilly granite]

Not sure about more ammo, it's already fast segmented reload

But improved directs and worse indrircts helps skill expression and making it less toxic

[analog pewter]

oh buff pike again
i think they should reduce its recoil and increase its mag size. current damage is actually fine but it's starved for ammo and cant even play range well because of the recoil

[chilly granite]

Pike absolutely needs no buffs

Rework maybe but not buffs

It only feels like it need buffs because it's so outclassed by other op weapons

[hardy dust]

Cerb needs a buff so bad

[chilly granite]

Lmao I forgot cerbs exists

[hardy dust]

Pike needs a buff+ rework, but not a straight buff

Straight buff is just boring poke

[chilly granite]

I think pike would be fine with rivals being nerfed and 5 extra shots in a mag

[analog pewter]

i want to see a CL-40 that's actually really strong while being non-toxic
I'd cap splash damage at like 75 and make directs deal 110, and reduce self damage a bit so it's not completely countered by face-tanking at point blank. like if the counter to a weapon is a heavy walking towards it while it backpedals there's a problem

[chilly granite]

But when you consider enemy ttk on medium, and medium ttk on enemy, they're overporrfoming not underperforming

Cap splash at 74 and I'm with you

Self damage has to be high because medium has too much hp

Splash radius being reduced would help both

Reduced splash damage reduces splash self damage too anyway

[analog pewter]

nah it should be 75, really
I think being able to kill light with 2 indirects is a deeply important characteristic, but 75 would make it harder to do by requiring 2 maximum splash damage hits rather than 1 max and 1 medium

[chilly granite]

75 with smaller radius is fiar

[analog pewter]

reduced radius might be fine. I'd like that but also increasing its structure damage so it can be used to punch holes with a few nades

[chilly granite]

75 with smaller radius would already make running down cl40s way shitter and make it significantly less toxic to play against lol

[analog pewter]

my real wish is that the weapon worked like TF2 grenade launcher but IDK if you could make that work in the finals without it being either bad or OP

cause it would have to be extremely high yield on direct hits, like 2-shotting medium type shit

[chilly granite]

I think you can do a fairly high rof demoman launcher

[analog pewter]

maybe something like the tri-bolt in quake champions, a 2 or 3 round burst projectile weapon

[chilly granite]

But yeah mediums gadgets and specs are kinda ass compared to light heavy because their weapons/hp are overtuned

Medium does 80% light DPS with 166% light hp pool and 25% large hitbox

If light meta was grapple you would not say that medium weapons are undetuned by comparison

Part of my problem with evasive dash is that it's an unreliable amount of extra hp, even for highly skilled players (pros)

You see in tgm a bunch of times lights don't get off their first dash, or die during their first dash

But then you also see a light lasting forever and dodging like 400hp of damage with dash

Light is so fragile that sometimes even pro players don't hit the skill floor on evasive dash lmao

Let alone the skill ceiling

The DPS numbers on repeater are technically bad, but when compared to sr84 are really scary, even more so when you consider teamplay and breakpoints

Ayway the reason heal beam sucks is because mkedijm has too much hp and too hard to kill

Make medium 200hp and make heal beam good

Tbh I think game more interesting with medium as a defined utility role with much less damage ouptup than the other teo

At least I would be more interested in playing medium in that world

If you gut medium weapons, turret, dmat and healbeam can all be way stronger

[analog pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1196056960223674411/1400998710065893518/attachment.gif

[chilly granite]

Heal besm is what, 50hp/s? And h+ is 186

Embark say 186 ok on light because boom light gone no big deal

But 250hp take long time too kill, frag and RPG both full damage, so 186/s way too fast

Heal beam is objectively worse than h+ in multiple ways

And that's because medium is harder to effectively kill

It's pretty easy to make a light play dead, so they're not healing, even if they are still alive

Like you can RPG a light and he either needs to risk being oneshot by a stray bullet or let his team fight without heals

And 6s regen timer is short, but long enough you can usually get significant advantage to outweigh the h+

I mean, h+ is overtuned even for light

But there would be a lot more room for buffing heal beam if medium was only 200hp

If healbeam got significant buffs now hmm or hhm would absolutely be meta overnight

Sorry if I'm not super clear I'm tryna sleep but feeling too sick to sleep

[hardy dust]

125 direct

https://tenor.com/view/cute-durr-emoji-tongue-pleading-eyes-gif-7428063711697204297

[analog pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/let's-seal-the-deal-dap-me-up-fist-bump-handshake-seal-gif-2238273738223626114

[chilly granite]

That's 2000% a skill issue bro

Did that guy delete his post after I said skill issue

The Devs should do placebo patches to stuff that's unloved to check if it's actually bad

[unkempt moss]

Can we get a pistol for this game

[analog pewter]

Give medium my pistol idea

Mk 23 socom pls

[unkempt moss]

I just want a pistol

[cyan bobcat]

a

[solemn cobalt]

RPG needs buff to 2 charges and increase damage in radius

[analog pewter]

LOL

[solemn cobalt]

what is issue

[unkempt moss]

The buff is not worth the amount light posting that would go on in the server about it.

[stoic garden]

https://tenor.com/view/table-mess-lmao-laugh-gif-5126644939264248578

[vocal stone]

Heavy needs a health buff. 500hp or so

[torpid fractal]

i think the AR that light class has needs to be buffed

just very slight damage increase to the body

[spring spear]

yeah it also needs to instantly kill anyone i dont like in the server and crash their game

[unborn lava]

real

[indigo nexus]

implying that people having a higher perception of the weapon would mean it was truly any better? They presumably already have data relevant to this, you'd only perturb it here by biasing people's expectations

[unborn lava]

good point, i forgot they track game data

[fluid jolt]

As expected, the Sledgehammer is difficult.
The slow movement of the Heavy class holds me back, and I often get close to the enemy but can't finish them off and lose.
It would be nice if I could get behind the enemy, but the enemy team tends to be scattered, so I can't do that very well...

[chilly granite]

I don't think they have actually good stat tracking tbh

But anyway, v9s was probably fine just underrated by the community. After all it's buffs and nerfs it's extremely close to where it was before

The other factor is that stats can be biased by use

A placebo patch will make most of the community try it, which will make the data gathered more accurate

[chilly granite]

You want to get behind their wall and crack the wall, like demat flank

I can't do it but good sledges have done it to me hahah

For multiple weapons they've buffed they've only cited unpopularity

[fluid jolt]

Will the Sledgehammer be strengthened?

[chilly granite]

Embark hates melee so probably not

[fluid jolt]

Well, at least the performance itself is sufficient. All you need is the skill to use it properly.
Even if you get close, if the distance is too close you will lose sight of the enemy and it will be unstable ()

[chilly granite]

@placid hound can we get more stuff like skybridge on seoul? jumppad-exclusive traversal between subsections of map is lame, more destructable routes, even better if they require good use of explosives to destory, is way more intersting

factory built jumppads (couhg couhg fortuen stadium) aren't very dynamism

[stoic garden]

Lowkey hop on #👂┇game-feedback

[open wing]

Hell fk no! 350 already hard to kill & u want 500 Hp yea no...

[marsh cosmos]

Moderators, confiscate this man's left kidney

[vocal stone]

No no, i mean, ADD 500 hp to the current 350, so it would be total of 850 hp

[open wing]

Lol you trolling 😂

[vocal stone]

The best i can do is left testicle

[vocal stone]

Gotta get some fun from time to time

[void marsh]

try running lockbolt, rpg, and i like dome but can swap that one if you like something else. try and get at least 1 hit on the light and finish with rpg, you wanna save lockbolt for Mediums and heavys as a smart player will know if there close they're basically cooked so they'll try and run and play distance ( could still use for lights but thats when rpg saves you) and if you're good with goo gun its WRAPS and if not winch will do just fine. Been running this and will usually do good unlses thers 2 lights but even then just gotta reber to sve gadgets for them. KEEP ON SLEDGING I BELIVE IN YOU.

[chilly granite]

bro game feedback is a cesspool I do not want to be associated with

[muted condor]

I wonder what they are saying in there

Absolute garbage takes straight from the tap

[unkempt moss]

Medium has never felt as bad to play as it has in season 8 and 9, gg embark i give up.

My best guess. I will admit my feedbackianese is a bit rusty

[chilly granite]

what is there to complain about on medium?

[muted condor]

The only complaint I have is medium has had the same 4 meta gadgets since launch

[serene glade]

medium is just boring other than the cerberus

[chilly granite]

model is fun

but understood/agreed lol

[serene glade]

i miss the fuckass interactions with jump pad. soul crushing removal of dematting a jumppad down to bounce it up to you. and also not being able to launch it like 200 meters for sillyness. now its just run your defib like a good little goy and hold the heavy players nuts, or shoot the ak, ak with less bullets, or burst ak

[muted condor]

Just heal beam your double heavy and kill lights with the repeater

The real medium experience

[chilly granite]

lmao

the meta sucks but the meta sucks because of medium, not medium sucks for the meta

[indigo nexus]

the existence of picks in this game has some pretty poor implications for the state of the meta

[chilly granite]

what do u mean by picks here?

[dim fulcrum]

how's XP now in comparison to ARN?

[chilly granite]

bad, next

[chilly granite]

fundamnetally just play what you enjoy and sbmm will put you in a rank that's appropriate

[unkempt moss]

I'm going to become an XP light. I dont believe it's as bad as you make it out to be.

[chilly granite]

it is

[young pewter]

its not bad but its not worth using

[chilly granite]

it's slower than the m11, by enoguh, that it'll often be the dfifrence between a heavy kkilling you or not

meanwhile it doesn't have enouhg range to provide the benefit of poke and chip damage of the arn

[serene glade]

why play dr mario, when mario is right there

[chilly granite]

if you enjoy it you can make it work but it's not good

like if it was equal to arn is every other aspec than damage/falloff, it would be fine

but it has worse recoil, worse magazine

the reload time isn't meaninguflly better

[indigo nexus]

weapons, gadgets and specs

[chilly granite]

oh, so u mean like, the fact that meidum has mandatory gadets and weapons speaks poorly on the state of the meta

[compact tundra]

The funny back throw

[serene glade]

the "mandatory" pick for 9 seasons now isnt good tho

[chilly granite]

which one? defibs?

[dim plover]

i tried it out last night and honestly it was fun when i got the hang off it, i was using it with frag tho, im gonna try it with thermal bore today, but thx still

[deep turtle]

Thank you, at least one other person thinks so. Something small at least.

I genuinely have a much better time with the XP than the ARN rn

[magic sapphire]

How does the lockbolt xp work? Do I get more xp for locking people or constant xp for using it in general?

[serene glade]

ye

[chilly granite]

ehh I think it's still meta, but I think it's also terrible in solo queue or with poor coordinatino

[unkempt moss]

I love when we downplay gadgets by pointing the drooling apes that play this game.

Repeater is dogshit.
Why?
Because people cant hit shots in low elo.
Oh then we should buff it.

Defib is the only gadget that people will cry and throw games if you don't bring it. Ive never once had someone do that because I didnt bring dome, RPG, C4.

[magic sapphire]

^

[serene glade]

yeah so i did one quick google search for you

[magic sapphire]

this can't be accurate, I wind up with more than 1300 xp per match and I deploy it only a few number of times.

[muted condor]

I’m pretty sure all your equipment gets part of the exp from every match even if you don’t use it

[magic sapphire]

That makes sense I guess

Thank you

[unkempt moss]

Must not be a whole lot. All my time on googun and I'm just cracking level 10

[sudden pewter]

XP for everything needs to be adjusted anyway.

[chilly granite]

No it doesn't, if I don't use null it gets 0 xp gain

Null is taking me a metric decade to level

[stoic garden]

me when i lie

[knotty steeple]

You should go for stand up comedy because this is hilarious

[knotty steeple]

Imo defib is arguably top 3 gadgets

Idk what the other 2 are

[knotty steeple]

Xp light means what

[unkempt moss]

Probably dome and Infuser+

Hard to say. Gateway got nerfed, glitch got a second charge.

[knotty steeple]

Oh my this reminds me when j went against this heavy using the dome, mesh shield, and barricade. I'd breath within 10ft of him and it would be SHIELD SHIELD SHIELD SHIELD. Straight up dome, run away, mesh shield, run away, barricade, run away.

Basically a heavy with the mind of a light

[muted condor]

Fuck defibs

[knotty steeple]

How do you nerf gateway?

[regal obsidian]

day 124 of praying at the embark shrine until sniper is hitscan again and banned from power shift

[chilly granite]

Gateway beats infuser probably

I'm pretty sure the high level meta is not umm

Lead by pinnacle intelligence gamers

Watching tgm gateway was not being used to the degree or level of potential I think it represents

[indigo nexus]

Reduce its range, is what they did

[unkempt moss]

GOUF patch has it going to heavy.

[stoic garden]

we need a goo nuclear bomb tech

embark please let us create complex plastic explosives with goo gun

[chilly granite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaXmZBNBpdQ pros found outt that defib is shit and goo is kiing @unkempt moss

[stoic garden]

medium got so boring nobody wants to play it anymore, this tha truth

[chilly granite]

hahaaha

medium has the problem of not having a real role

nerf medium dps to the ground and give it a good heal beam and glitch grenade

give light glitch impact single charge impact grenade

bruh I gotta get my grind on

[analog pewter]

game was healthier and more fun when demat was OP change my mind

game would be better if light and heavy were responsible for healing and medium ran demat

[analog pewter]

me when i want heal poke meta to be worse

[chilly granite]

poke is not a counter to heal meta

heal is a counter to poke meta, the counter to heal meta is dive

the problem here is that poke wepaons out dps the dive weaopn because embark LUL

to be fair, that's only strictly true of the repeater vs model

[analog pewter]

calling medium an enabler is better than calling them a support. they're not supposed to be strictly self-sufficient but enable their teammates and facilitate dynamic strategies. right now they're just a healbot and your suggestion would make that worse

demat would be more of an enabler spec if it wasn't gutted as hard as it was. demat also enables dive strategies better than healing does. demat should be the medium's meta spec to counter healing, making healing stronger runs counter to your goals

[chilly granite]

which is probably an aspect of why pro teams are running hhl right now, because medium doesn't have a good dive weapon

[analog pewter]

my favorite kit in season 7 was demat model, we need that back asap 😔

[chilly granite]

they're not even a healbot in high levle games, they're unpicked lol

[analog pewter]

my understanding is that there's a relative balanced mix of HHL and HHM right now, or at least there was before midseason un-nerfed light

[chilly granite]

sounds like there's hhl, hml and very little hhm

from appoh video

[analog pewter]

HML with light running h+ and medium running demat is the ideal meta and we had it briefly 😔

season 7 was so peak for gameplay

[chilly granite]

I do think that light as a healer and meidum filling a more demoman type role from tf2 is probably a better meta

[analog pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/mike-ehrmantraut-you-just-had-to-be-the-man-it-was-perfect-you-just-had-to-blow-it-up-you-your-pride-and-your-ego-gif-17878633628946254819

[chilly granite]

Ithink i only played tdm in s7 hahahah

let me check if I have a s7 ranked badge

[analog pewter]

im fine with the visual flash on demat but i genuinely think the way it is now it should be increased back up to 3 charges

demat is way too fun and interesting

[chilly granite]

fukkk

I need to increase my sense my shoulder is so tired from physiotherapy i just hurt it a lot tryna aim at a light lmao

lets try 37@400dpi

[marsh cosmos]

EMBARK!! Add in the triple optic M4 with laser sight as soon as possible

[stoic garden]

i want to get a degree in physiotherapy lol

[marsh cosmos]

Bro, you are a man. No one wants to do physical therapy with a man

[broken mulch]

???

[stoic garden]

plenty of 40yo moms would be absolutely delighted to let me work on them

[broken mulch]

Why do you think people get physical therapy?

It’s not js a massage

[stoic garden]

also for physiotherapy you dont gotta judge cuz if you need it you're most likely suffering something at least mildly severe

[sharp quest]

What’s the best light ar?

[stoic garden]

many physiotherapists are men afaik

[broken mulch]

Arn prob

It’s technically the only one

[viscid carbon]

Pike & Demat 🤤 🤤 🤤

[analog pewter]

pike wasnt so great to have meta but demat awesome

[viscid carbon]

Pike was insanely good in S7

[stoic garden]

demat is so peak