#šŸ’£ā”‡weapons-gadgets

1 messages Ā· Page 273 of 1

compact tundra
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I think that's just cause the balance is overall a lot closer between items now than back then. Cause the triple medium meta back then was both easy to use and clearly better than every other team comp, meanwhile nowadays there isn't a distinctly better playstyle, besides maybe like the V9s on light there aren't many weapons considered strictly better, tho specs do run into this problem

stoic garden
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i only cheered for mesh's return because mesh was my preferred spec and winch just hard countered it for so long

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never been a fan of sa12, and there's some variety nowadays

stoic garden
hardy dust
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Mesh is actually a healthy spec and its return was nowhere near the state it was in s1

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And sa12 is a high skill heavy weapon that fits the class perfectly while not being oppressive in what would be weak spots for heavy

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Overall mesh sa12 is just a very healthy meta loadout for the game unlike something like winch bfr, which is probably why a ton of people are happy its much better now

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Close range, brawly, teamplay oriented and high skill

unkempt moss
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The game is boring as mf right now. Who exactly is happy?

analog pewter
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game never gets boring for me thesmiler

unkempt moss
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Even the model defib meta was more fun because it was at least challenging to beat. Building against it gave you something to do and it felt satisfying to win

analog pewter
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game feels like it's in a very balanced and healthy state imo, the worst thing is the v9s and it's still a perfectly counterable weapon. I wonder what the midseason patch will look like

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I hope they're focusing on under-performers

unkempt moss
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With takes like that it'll be a handful of skins.

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Again

serene glade
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"the biggest mid season patch is coming"
Buffs XP beyond belief and does nothing else. The good ol days

hardy dust
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And most importantly there was like 0 buffs to underperformers

unkempt moss
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I hope they buff the hell out of light. I hope it becomes triple light meta. At least its something different.

hardy dust
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I just want grapple and cloak to be good

unkempt moss
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How you take a game that plays like the trailer of other video games and make it boring is beyond comprehension to me

hardy dust
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Its honestly not boring just really stale since there hasn't been much to shake up the game

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Which is boring if you've been playing for a while, but the core gameplay is and probably always will be exciting

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I just want blanket buffs to bad picks šŸ˜­

unkempt moss
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Its not boring it's stale. Got it.

hardy dust
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Yea

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A new player is gonna have tons of fun since they haven't been playing basically the exact same thing for the last couple seasons

unkempt moss
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So the game is struggling to find new players, and it's stale to old players.

hardy dust
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Yea pretty much

unkempt moss
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Alrighty

hardy dust
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And embark aint doing much about it

unkempt moss
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So why wouldn't we try to retain old players by making it exciting

hardy dust
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Shaking up balance would make it exciting

serene glade
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Mesh SA is my most practiced and muscle memory playstyle. So I like when I don't have to learn anything new tbh

hardy dust
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And just buffing weak picks to be viable

unkempt moss
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Oh okay. I see the target demographic now.

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Also, from this point forward if someone says healthy they're my enemy. Theyre actively trying to kill my favorite shooter.

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I want my finals to be stage 4 obese alcoholic

hardy dust
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Just go play marvel rivals or smth vro šŸ˜­

unkempt moss
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The mobile game shooter?

hardy dust
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Idk

stoic garden
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go play clash royale

hardy dust
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The one with wacky balance

serene glade
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Super heroes are not cool tho

unkempt moss
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I've just been playing Arc instead. But I appreciate the fix to the game being go play something else.

hardy dust
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"Fix" as in changing a game to how you want it?

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The way I see it is that if you want to play a certain type of game, you go play that type of game instead of trying to mold a different game into it

serene glade
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They should fix the game by adding more Esports tournaments so I can watch

hardy dust
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True...
Add more esports and don't do any balancing

serene glade
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Yeah full send it. Who the fuck cares about anyone else?

unkempt moss
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Fix as in shake it up a little.i dont play light or medium, but I even said make it triple light meta. I'd rather do that

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If I'm looking back at model defib fondly something has gone seriously wrong

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Didn't play medium back then either.

hardy dust
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We just need actual balance changes

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We haven't gotten anything that actually had proper changes since like s7 or smth

hardy dust
serene glade
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Power shift and snowball fights!!!!!

hardy dust
unkempt moss
sudden pewter
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@muted condor what is your IG so I can add you

brisk saffron
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Poison blow dart? šŸ¤”

analog pewter
sudden pewter
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Perspective Issue tbh

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Thereā€™s definitely objectively dumb suggestions, like ults, secondaries, stamina systems, etc.

But thereā€™s a valid argument for ā€œshaking things upā€ even though itā€™s a very broad statement

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Yeah, the game is stale. The only real ā€œshakeupsā€ we get are seasonal outliers in power like the V9S

obsidian nexus
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for the love of sweet jesus. add a windup to winch PLEASE

rough beacon
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Ha lol he tried the thing

hoary patio
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It didnā€™t work

rough beacon
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You canā€™t do it until ur higher lvl bud

hoary patio
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Thatā€™s kinda stupid tbh

rough beacon
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Ya

hoary patio
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I guess Iā€™m just a peasant

unkempt moss
sudden pewter
#

ā€œItā€™s differentā€ is a neutral statement but Embark expects us to celebrate it because Winch has been dominant for so long

unkempt moss
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It may have been hyperbolic, but even triple light would be more interesting because it movement in some direction.

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I can play around busted shit. However, I cant play around the feeling of boredom. If im playing dagger something has gone drastically wrong.

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I already took off the entirety of last season outside of just grinding the battlepass in the last two weeks.

sudden pewter
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I donā€™t believe we need any new weapons(for now) as a significant amount of our arsenal is dusty. But balance changes are to supposed to be a constant thing, especially with the launch of a new season. Itā€™s very frustrating seeing Embark put so much effort into TGM and see the base game languish for it.

The Winch change is good, itā€™s a start. But whereā€™s similar for Medium? For Light? Cloak is still ass.

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Shaking things up can be as simple as a new map, a meta shift, some balance changes, etc. Iā€™m not asking for new toys or anything that takes a substantial amount of development time. I think we (as a community) just want better, clearer, more consistent communication and for old stuff to be polished

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Break Point being the prominent new addition of S9 (beyond the WT changes and map) still having gamebreaking issues (moving the obj into spawns) still happening this long after release is ridiculous

unkempt moss
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That touches on something important. We were told that the last season was basically a wash for esports. I accepted that because I assumed it means we're getting a big set of changes for the new year.

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It wasn't even a lack of communication as much as it felt like being mislead or even lied to.

sudden pewter
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Just give them more time bro!!!! Iā€™m sure theyā€™re cooking (meth) you just gotta believe!!!!

unkempt moss
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There's always next thursday!

sudden pewter
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I canā€™t wait for yet another Gucci Winter-Girl set!!!

serene glade
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actually drops more horrible skins like a boss (cant change the colors or sponsors of generic hats and clothing btw, thank you embark. thank you thank you thank you)

sudden pewter
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Itā€™s wild that weā€™re at the point the highlight of the weekly updates are things we pay for. Weā€™ve been conditioned like swine. (I say proudly as I will shoot fat ropes for more Eclipse Shade skins)

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I canā€™t wait for the ā€œwe hear you! Moving forward weā€™re going to be more communicative :)ā€ to only last two weeks and weā€™re back to the status quo

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ā€œYeah we read the discord but we wonā€™t make any suggested changes for a year or soā€

serene glade
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people call skins content these days in multiple games so thats what we are gonna get

sudden pewter
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I love the BattlePass meta

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I love coming home from my job for my casual job

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I say this while acknowledging the BP in The Finals is quite tame and very respectful of oneā€™s time

serene glade
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heres a battle pass to grind in the most boring miserable state the game has ever been in, have fun unlocking epic and cool content

sudden pewter
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Another 5 skins for the ARN šŸ”„

serene glade
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the arn earned those 5 skins bud

sudden pewter
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Game is still fun and I very much enjoy it, just wish Embark did more. I understand theyā€™re a Swedish company and they get good pay and a metric shit ton of vacations

serene glade
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thats fine if they actually did some work the days when they actually come in to work

sudden pewter
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I wish we had the equivalent of AH Discord where the devs themselves socialize through the discord, giving us insight and actually communicating with players individually

serene glade
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they communicated us that esports is staying and vital to the game while showing highlights of a crowd sitting in lawn chairs

sudden pewter
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Imagine Oscar or one of the faceless developers left an šŸ‘€ on a suggestion in this channel and what that could spark

sudden pewter
unkempt moss
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They will when I drop the GOUF patch.

serene glade
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early spring

unkempt moss
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They'll be posting all kinds of emoji reactions.

sudden pewter
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Iā€™ve gone from playing every day to every other day or once every three days because Iā€™m running on fumes. The state of the game is far from terrible but Iā€™m bitter with how much they put into TGM (yes Iā€™m a broken record)

unkempt moss
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Coming from fighting games and seeing esports ruin that, it sucks to see it happen here.

sudden pewter
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Let my Medium have fat cans like F Heavy.

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With that I depart. TF2 time.

proper portal
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Domain expansions

muted condor
sudden pewter
muted condor
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Give me 10

hasty rain
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okay

muted condor
sudden pewter
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Yeah but what if you told me your IG so I could add you

muted condor
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Let a man take a shit

sudden pewter
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Stop taking a Spooky Dookie

blazing vector
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Ngl why do I play better with my friends than with randoms like we lowkey be doing random shit and still win

compact tundra
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I JUST REALIZED IF YOU GET THE ULTIMATE PASS THEN THE CERBERUS, FLAMETHROWER, AND SWORD ALL HAVE MATCHING SKINS. ALL MY MAINS HAVE MATCHING SKINS. IM SO FUCKING HAPPY RN

boreal laurel
slow linden
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Winch nerf means hammer and spear should get a buff,better yet Remove winch so that the weapons intentionally limited by it may be properly balanced

slow linden
analog pewter
sudden pewter
#

How am I supposed to complete my cat maid medium without a tail smh embark

analog pewter
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i want mini shorts but we'll NEVER get that šŸ˜”
how am I going to be peter parker in the ANIMAL shirt without em

opjhgwape0a21.png
icy egret
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I need Akimbo accuracy buffs now, and it's unfortunate. Duels are kind of fucked unless you get the jump on the enemy.

icy egret
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They say the accuracy is bad because it gets high damage, but realistically its damage is not that high compared to its competitors. In fact, its damage sort-of pales in comparison.

icy egret
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Like I know you're supposed to hit headshots with it, and I do try, I do hit them, but it's impossible to hit them enough with the hipfire

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You're only consistently hitting headshots with the ADS.

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And the ADS requires you to move very slow.

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But it's just so damn fun. God damn it.

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I was competing with a sniper light earlier from 100m+ away.

unkempt moss
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The execution of the deagles has been botched since day one and its only been nerfed since. So they seem to be operating as Embark intended.

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Why twin pistols without ADS functions like a DMR I'll never know.

icy egret
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I mean, I can get behind a weapon not having that, but it also needs to be good at dueling.

unkempt moss
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I like that the guns dont have ADS. The way its set up would make it the close range dueling choice on heavy if they were consistent

muted condor
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To bad, the BFR will be your only option and the deagles will never get fixed for fear of over shadowing it. You will play with your boring DMR cosplaying as a revolver and youā€™ll fucking like it

unkempt moss
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Of course. Thank you, embark.

outer crow
muted condor
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The deagles should have stayed as the only long range heavy weapon and Iā€™ll die on this hill

unkempt moss
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They should have never been the long range heavy weapon is the hill I will die on.

icy egret
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Do they ever do balance mid-season?

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Or weapons mid-season? I've been playing for a good while now and I've never seen a new weapon added to the game.

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I started around the beginning of Season 8.

unkempt moss
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They skipped last season for dumbass esports. They added a map and mode for this season. P90 and Titan were added in 8 if I remember correctly. Light got something, cant remember what it was. Gravity?

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We went from weekly balance patches, slowed down to major patches only being done beginning and mid season.

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Didn't do a major mid-season patch in 8 because of TGM.

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I'd have to assume we get a major patch mid-9.

icy egret
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Hopefully. Weekly balance sounds like a dream.

unkempt moss
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It lead to some insane things. CL40 was uberbuffed for like two weeks. XP was like the current V9S for a bit.

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Weapons bloom and die on a weekly basis. We had no idea how good we had it.

chilly granite
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tbh I think they were being too rapid for some changes, didn't give them time to see how the meta irons out, but at the same time, their current pace is too slow, but then they also reverted the v9s after like 3 days lol

unkempt moss
chilly granite
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I don't understand why the cb hasn't been nerfed and the bfr got buffed? I don't understand why the bfr got added at all

unkempt moss
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I wouldn't call the 2 damage a revert. The range is the problem

unkempt moss
chilly granite
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2 damage makes it out of falloff damage 24.7, pre buff it was 24

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but now theres cb and bfr on medium/heavy that just stop light from playing the game with hitscan to any range

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dynamism shooter you got hit by a heavy guy 3km away now u have to afk for 6 seconds

unkempt moss
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Thats fine but why would you buff the range of a silenced pistol?

chilly granite
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I mean, the irl silenced pistol would probably own at 100m

unkempt moss
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How?

chilly granite
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how many bullets actaulyl lose significant velocity in 100m

unkempt moss
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Its a 6 inch barrel firing a round slower than the speed of sound. Its going to be wildly innacurate and drop faster than your normal round.

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I dont know the actual length of the V9S but its a short barrel. Firing a pistol even without the subsonic rounds at 100m is insanely difficult

chilly granite
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I mean, we don't know it's subsonic ammo, literally no guns have a supersonic crack?

unkempt moss
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Thats why it sounds like youre patting a dog on the ass when you fire it instead of it sounding like a gunshot.

chilly granite
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I mean, that's unrealistic for silencers with subsonic ammo

unkempt moss
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Hold I may have misunderstood you.

chilly granite
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realism is a bad argument because it's not realistic in the first place, the lore is it's a vr game anyway, and there's no air for friction or supersonic crack in vr

outer crow
chilly granite
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and yeah firing a pistol is hard but that's an arugment for dispersion, not reduced ranged damage

outer crow
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pistols are not designed for long range combat

unkempt moss
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Its still a short barrel gun firing with both hands on the grip.

chilly granite
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the crazier thing is that the stockless pistol has easier recoil then the nice bedded m14

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lh1 and v9s have recoil swapped and all is right in the world

unkempt moss
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The V9S can have low recoil if they want people larping on some tacticool shit. But it shouldnt be doing it at long range.

chilly granite
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I feel like there's a level of recoil that's minimal in cqb but way too much in distance fighting

outer crow
chilly granite
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I feel like that's what the lh1 has pretty much

outer crow
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and nerfed pistol damage by 5 % šŸ˜‚, fair trade

chilly granite
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I mean I feel like the reason the lh1 is bad is becasue the recoil is fine for cqb, but too much for long distance, and up close it gets out dps'd by actualy cqb weapons so it's crap

unkempt moss
outer crow
chilly granite
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I feel like the problem with the v9s isn't the crits but the body damage

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I'm not dying to a bunch of dinks just a bunch of swooshes

analog pewter
chilly granite
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nothing? the bfr jsut needs to be delted

unkempt moss
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You cant reduce the damage too much or it wont be used. Lights need to have high damage on their weapons or they get dumpstered.

analog pewter
outer crow
muted condor
chilly granite
unkempt moss
analog pewter
#

like I could see the current famas being healthy if it didnt get crits beyond like 35m. BFR similar.

chilly granite
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there shouldn't be hitscan weapons on heavy and medium that do half of light's hp or more on non-headshots

outer crow
#

there shouldnt be hitscan at all

chilly granite
muted condor
#

Fuck lite All weapons should get bonus damage

unkempt moss
outer crow
analog pewter
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if everything in this game was projectiles I would fucking quit. not just because the servers would suck for it, but because having to lead every shot in a game where movement is this erratic is not fun

chilly granite
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I'm moderately on the no-hitscan train but the servers would take a dump

outer crow
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hitscan is always no skill

muted condor
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Make minigun hit scan

analog pewter
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i guess quake is a no skill game...

unkempt moss
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I cant remember who I was talking to. Making everything the hybrid type would keep them snappy in their range but balance them out past their effective range.

analog pewter
outer crow
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i played previous project where hitscan was a crazy menace for 6-7 years before final removal of this shit

muted condor
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Wait is it?

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I literally main the mini gun and have no clue lmao

unkempt moss
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Arc Raiders put me on the projectile for embark train. The guns feel so good in that game even though its homeless shootout simulator

outer crow
chilly granite
unkempt moss
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Yeah I agree.

outer crow
analog pewter
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im so sick and tired of PvP FPS games where everything is projectiles, it's always just aggravating. every gunfight just becomes a competition to facemash the A/D keys and outcomes feel random half the time

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hitscan ranges at least like with the KS-23 would be fine enough

outer crow
#

hitscan is not needed anymore in modern high end PCs

muted condor
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Youā€™re overestimating modern game servers

analog pewter
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hitscan is a design choice not a mechanical limitation lmao

chilly granite
muted condor
#

Also hit scan is fine on some weapons. Make cl40 hit scan

unkempt moss
outer crow
chilly granite
muted condor
# outer crow

I will two tap lights from 200m instantly with the cl40

chilly granite
unkempt moss
#

I feel like you keep launchers full projectile, anything with pellet spread hitscan. Everything else hybrid.

analog pewter
chilly granite
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for some reason the repeater that two taps lights has a faster fire rate than the cl40

unkempt moss
outer crow
muted condor
chilly granite
#

do you actualyl think the repeater is balanced?

outer crow
outer crow
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i mean overall

chilly granite
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I mean, I think the cl40 is fine

muted condor
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Itā€™s not that bad. Maybe a little over tuned but Iā€™d leave the repeater as is for now

chilly granite
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I never lose to a cl40 and feel bad about it, but a lot of times I die to repeater and feel like it's just bs

outer crow
chilly granite
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fundamentally repeater being able to stop light form playing the game for 7s at any range is dumb

muted condor
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There are bigger problems with weapons right now like fucking dual blades, spear, MGL, cerb, and dagger

unkempt moss
outer crow
chilly granite
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what's wrong with mgl? other than being crazy bs in point break with 5 guys using it at the same time

unkempt moss
#

This guy

muted condor
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Itā€™s dog shit along with the other weapons I listed

chilly granite
#

oh I thouhgt you meant op

outer crow
outer crow
chilly granite
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I don't feel like dual blades are underpowered but that's because there's a bug where rreflected arrows oneshots light

muted condor
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Dual blades are just unforgivably bad and simply donā€™t work for over half the games life time

chilly granite
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sure until they oneshot me with a reflect arrow šŸ™

outer crow
unkempt moss
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Its a miracle it even reflected.

muted condor
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Spear needs hit detection fixed, and daggerā€¦. Yeah dagger stuff

chilly granite
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idk how u make dagger good on light

unkempt moss
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I use it and love it

chilly granite
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even oneshotting i don't think it can really ever be that good, the finals isn't tf2 and it doesn't work the same

muted condor
unkempt moss
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Cloak and dagger is the only fun ive been having lately.

outer crow
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dual blades 95% damage reduction works way better than riot 100% reduction - all because of unable to bypass it shooting shoes

chilly granite
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true

outer crow
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while riot is completely useless against competent players

muted condor
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Dagger is fun but itā€™s dog shit

outer crow
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and also is useless against lights

umbral drift
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Sword is fun

unkempt moss
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Support cloak and dagger. Give it a try

muted condor
umbral drift
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You wouldnt be able to

muted condor
outer crow
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embark should fix the coverage of riot shield

chilly granite
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riot shield sucks to play against by virtue of being annoying

muted condor
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Riot shield sucks to play with and play against lol

umbral drift
#

Easy with sword

unkempt moss
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Ive been playing Heavy for hundreds of hours now and they added nothing this season. I needed to break the monotony

muted condor
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Itā€™s some how annoying and hot garbage

chilly granite
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yeah

outer crow
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when i see heavy in opponents i finally get normall chance to play with riot

muted condor
#

Remove medium from the game fr

umbral drift
#

Heal beam needs buffing again

outer crow
muted condor
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Specifically defib
Fuck defib

unkempt moss
#

If the game was exclusively heavy it would fix every problem the game has

chilly granite
#

lmao

umbral drift
#

Light is the best class

muted condor
outer crow
unkempt moss
muted condor
#

Not saying i want heavy to be the only class but all of the problems would go away lmao

unkempt moss
muted condor
chilly granite
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I mean, its true but also a bad take. I think the problems are mostly becasue light has too little hp and medium has too mcuh, so it's very hard to balance weapons around all three classes

outer crow
muted condor
#

Real

chilly granite
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and evasive dash has to be OP to help light survive, which then sucks for everyone

umbral drift
#

Anyone want to 1v1 then

muted condor
chilly granite
#

they should recon senses' evasive dash

outer crow
muted condor
#

We stan heavy up in here

unkempt moss
chilly granite
#

banish that shit to the shadow realm and see how the game balance changes

muted condor
outer crow
unkempt moss
umbral drift
muted condor
#

Go back to mw2 old man. We donā€™t do that shit anymore
Old fuck

umbral drift
unkempt moss
#

1v1 me in the team centric game n00b

muted condor
#

Bro is gonna post a quick scoping montage next smh

outer crow
umbral drift
sudden pewter
muted condor
unkempt moss
umbral drift
#

I'm 15 you muppet

sudden pewter
unkempt moss
#

15 years late to the 1v1 meta

umbral drift
#

How old are you

sudden pewter
muted condor
umbral drift
outer crow
unkempt moss
umbral drift
#

Well I am

sudden pewter
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Been using the KS all day trying to break the hipfire habit

muted condor
unkempt moss
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Nah it's a larp.

sudden pewter
#

It's such a fun gun but the moment somone dives you it's Joever

outer crow
umbral drift
chilly granite
# unkempt moss The problem is light guns do so much damage to make up for heavy health that you...

yeah the idea of class based shooters is that the classes fill different niches but embark wants everoyne to do dps so the balance is way off

light should win a duel with heavy at distance, but medium can outheal light, but heavy can outdps light if light tries to approach to outdps the healing, so light tries to kill medium first so that heavy is vulnerable

but the current system is that medium doesn't outheal anything, so medium shoots light with heavy and light dies

unkempt moss
chilly granite
#

or light medium and heavy shoot heavy togther and heavy dies

muted condor
outer crow
sudden pewter
umbral drift
outer crow
#

so then whats the point of H/M/L then?

chilly granite
unkempt moss
sudden pewter
#

Embark describes The Finals as a Hero Builder and while HML are often referred too as "classes" they're actually archetypes

umbral drift
unkempt moss
muted condor
outer crow
chilly granite
#

idk why they're so afraid do something like give dagger +50hp

muted condor
#

We should jump his ass with flamethrowers and lock bolts

umbral drift
sudden pewter
chilly granite
#

what's your idea ot make dagger less bad

outer crow
sudden pewter
#

Fix the fucking servers for starters

unkempt moss
chilly granite
#

I'm not a dagger player lol

muted condor
outer crow
sudden pewter
#

Then stop acting like one

chilly granite
#

But I don't think I've been killed by a dager this season, it's bad lmao

umbral drift
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Delete dagger from the game we already have sword we don't need another little one

sudden pewter
#

+50hp my man what on earth did you smoke

unkempt moss
chilly granite
#

are you scared of a lil dagger with 200hp?

outer crow
chilly granite
#

+500hp dagger might be playable in ruby hahahaha

sudden pewter
#

"are you scared of the instakill OHK weapon cursed with server related jank on the smallest, most mobile archetype in the game with 200 health" Yes.

outer crow
chilly granite
#

šŸ˜„

unkempt moss
outer crow
#

šŸ’€

sudden pewter
chilly granite
#

if you dodge the backstab then it's got crazy slow ttk if you can't kill the 200hp light in that window it's askill issue for sure

umbral drift
#

We can all just agree the the h+infuser is the best gadget for the light

outer crow
unkempt moss
umbral drift
#

Noooooooooooo

chilly granite
#

nulli is probably the most powerful but it's also the most lame to use

unkempt moss
#

Best play making gadget in their kit

sudden pewter
chilly granite
#

I'm using nulli now because the bow ttk is so ass people just steal in front of you on point break

outer crow
umbral drift
#

Not after rework, best load out is gateway, infuser, glitch

sudden pewter
unkempt moss
outer crow
sudden pewter
outer crow
chilly granite
unkempt moss
muted condor
chilly granite
#

but that's pretty bad lmao

nerfing evasive dash would make giving dagger lil extra health less bad though

sudden pewter
outer crow
umbral drift
unkempt moss
chilly granite
#

I don't think light is weak, I think light is weak if u dont use evasive dash, and that evasive dash is op and what makes light op

unkempt moss
#

That video needs to be pinned to this channel

sudden pewter
muted condor
outer crow
chilly granite
#

if they made lights use grapple or invis then light would be dead again

sudden pewter
#

90% of my random Lights thing they're the main character and run into 1v3's

chilly granite
#

grapple 100% deservese +50hp

unkempt moss
#

Light and mediums will just never understand how much our necks hurt on Heavy from having to hold up all these brains

sudden pewter
#

You will be blood eagled.

outer crow
sudden pewter
#

nvm checked your roles, carry on light

muted condor
#

Some of the best randoms Iv ever played with

outer crow
#

void welcomes u

muted condor
#

I like spectating the strange creatures you find in solo q

sudden pewter
outer crow
chilly granite
#

so is anyone gonna argue with me that the bow is underpowered?

muted condor
# outer crow

The light forgot I was running lock bolt and now Iā€™m going to touch him

outer crow
#

its fine

chilly granite
#

it really isn't, it's 3s to kill a heavy with full draw

muted condor
outer crow
chilly granite
#

if you don't full draw it's 3.85s, it's longer than the flamethrower

chilly granite
muted condor
#

I donā€™t like it

hardy dust
#

Bow could use some tiny nudges to make it slightly better but its honestly not too bad

chilly granite
#

I'm lvl 12 bow lol I litearlly only been using it

outer crow
#

crossbow should be added to the game

hardy dust
#

Fixing shitty hitreg would probably be the best buff it could get

chilly granite
#

the hitreg is fine, the projectile is just too slow to hit anyone past 20meters

sudden pewter
muted condor
unkempt moss
chilly granite
#

if it's not meant to be used in 20 meters, why does it do the worst dps of any weapon in the game

sudden pewter
unkempt moss
muted condor
chilly granite
#

why would you ever use a bow which is useless past 25m if you can use a v9s that's op within 15 and useless beyond

unkempt moss
#

V9s only op within 15?

muted condor
chilly granite
#

that was mistake lol

outer crow
chilly granite
#

I mean to say that the bow is useless past 25, and the v9s is op in 15 and useful beyond 25 too

outer crow
sudden pewter
muted condor
#

I use mini gun despite it being worse than the SA12 at close range and worse that the shak at mid range. Itā€™s all about the aura not the meta

sudden pewter
#

Minigun puts hair on your chest 100%

outer crow
chilly granite
#

The bow has awful damage breakpoints too, it's super easy to undercharge headshots on heavies and leave them on 1hp evne with double heeadshots

muted condor
outer crow
#

always hated when opponent survived at 1 hp

chilly granite
#

seeing a heavy walk away with two arrows sticking out his face

muted condor
outer crow
chilly granite
#

but yeah, the bow needs more consistent dps, the worst case dps should not be worse than the damn flamethrower

unkempt moss
chilly granite
#

having the worst dps in the game even when hitting all your slow projectile shots is damn unreasonable, no matter what anyone says

#

and the biggest buff the bow needs, is a smaller arrow hitbox, the damn thing gets stuck on everything, don't even try corner peeking, good luck if they hide behind a handrail

#

and it looks so dumb when the arrow is just floating in the air by the blocking obstacle anyway

#

I mean, with the accelaration speed of characters in the finals, the arrow could probably travel faster tbh, right now it's basically 100% consistently dodgable at 25m for a light, and like, 30m for a heavy

I'm pretty sure nobody that big is dodging an arrow from a recurve bow within 50 meters lol

But the projectile speed is kinda the least of the things holding it back?

#

I mean I want the projectile speed buffed becuse I want to snipe, but that's a me thing, not a correct for the balance of the weapon thing

sudden pewter
chilly granite
#

wanna test if you can dodge an arrow at 50m irl mr heavy? (joke)

analog pewter
sudden pewter
#

Waiting for pike buff

analog pewter
muted condor
sudden pewter
chilly granite
#

The hitbox afaik is the same for both, and it can be hard to hit headshots on some angles because the hitbox hits shoulders first right now, becasue it's so fat, so I'm not sure if a big hitbox for players is good or bad

analog pewter
#

idk I really like the current damage breakpoints. i think they changed too much at once though. like the old hipfire would be fine with the current damage IMO

stoic garden
chilly granite
#

I'd rather them just make the hitbox flat smaller and improve the weapon's performance

analog pewter
#

I like its consistent damage output even if it needs one more shot to kill. Id just like to be able to put more shots downrange before reloading, and have a little more reliable hipfire for up close

chilly granite
stoic garden
#

pike's hipfire is ass i will not believe otherwise

analog pewter
sudden pewter
#

It is ass and I'm unsure if I'd want it to be better

chilly granite
#

the pike hipfire should be improved a bit and the cb needs (at least) a much slower ads speed

stoic garden
sudden pewter
chilly granite
#

the cb doesn't deserve to have such faster ads than the pike when the cb twoshots lights

analog pewter
#

good thing about current pike is you still get the old bodyshot TTK if you hit one headshot
skill... rewarded

stoic garden
sudden pewter
#

V9S ate the flesh from the corpse of 93R and absorbed it's strength

analog pewter
#

ive been playing with the pike lately using the guardian turret and it's a very fun combo
especially in point break

chilly granite
#

man I despise that the bow has 1.5x hs multi

#

I'm pretty sure the bow can't kill a v9s faster than it dies because its 1.5x hs multi

#

306ms to draw a bow, v9s triple headshot in 330ms, bow travle time to the lights head

sudden pewter
#

This is horrifying to read

chilly granite
#

that's minimum frame perfect draw to kill a light with headshot

#

if you full draw, 490ms, release perfectly at full draw, then the v9s kills you before the arrow connects on bodyshots

#

you can't kill a cb faster than it can kill you either, even with the bow pre-drawn

#

and when drawn you're slower than a heavy running so the cb gets an easy shot on you to start the fight when you peek hahaha

#

you need a full draw and undrawn headshot and the undrawn time on the bow is .75, cb is .76, travle time of the arrow means you die

#

and that's hitting two headshots with projectiles with different veolcities

unkempt moss
#

This guy is still yapping about the bow? (joke)

chilly granite
#

hahahah

#

the bow is my one and only love

unkempt moss
#

Embark just give him whatever he was. Yeeeeesh

analog pewter
#

I love the bow too but my general issue with it is how punishing it is while hardly being as reliable or consistent as any other light weapon

unkempt moss
chilly granite
chilly granite
stoic garden
analog pewter
unkempt moss
#

Just give bow a melee using the arrow to stab. It does 149 damage. Good luck.

analog pewter
#

such a thin projectile being headshot dependent in this game is just really fucking tough

chilly granite
unkempt moss
#

I have a cross hair that shows me where the goo globs are going to go.

stoic garden
#

i have a crosshair that tells me the best move in a chess match

unkempt moss
#

I have one that looks like my dad because of the beating it hands out.

analog pewter
unkempt moss
chilly granite
analog pewter
chilly granite
#

you can test in practice range or with a buddy

#

maybe half a light's head?

#

that's probably a beter description

#

it's too wide to fit thoguh most railings in the game, you've probably seen it just get stuck in objects a mile away from it

unkempt moss
chilly granite
#

this railing is very, very slightly larger than the hitbox

#

you can also see my very nerdy crosshair

#

this shot will land, although there may be more hitbox bugs with the training dummies, I'm pretty sure this is the case in gameplay too. I've seen shots I'm sure I've miseed, land

#

so yeah, I think the bow projectile is too forgiving, and that also sucks because it means that the arrow gets stuck in basically every surface in the game

#

crosshair inner offset 24 on 100fov for context

#

bot at 3 meters distance

#

but if you give the bot about 95% of its head again, the arrow should hit

analog pewter
tired fractal
chilly granite
indigo nexus
sonic zephyr
#

dual blades in practice are so attrocious its insulting

#

no clue why i always give them another chance

copper hazel
chilly granite
chilly granite
# copper hazel to be fair you shouldn't engage a fight without pre-charging with bow at first p...

sometimes you don't engauge a fight, you get engauged upon, and the bow shouldn't be worse than the flamethrower in those situations

espeically since you can't precharge the bow in invis, where a enemy light in invis can kill you basically for free

the bow already has one of the lowest dps in the game when drawn, while also being a projectile, and making you slower than a heavy. You can't walk around with a bow predrawn all the time, you're literally a sitting duck who's slower than a damn heavy. Peeking into a cb/sniper etc with a predrawn bow is suicide because you move so slowly that it's a free shot and then they can just go into cover with no recourse lol

I think the draw time is fun and intersting gameplay, but the undrawn bow needs to be better so that you're not using the worst weapon in the game if you actually move around like a light. At least the sniper can oneshot headshot or bodyshot+quickmelee if an invis pops on you, but the undrawn bow is a headshot+melee or 3 shot bodyshot with a 0.75s firerate; if they're not in melee range, then it's a headshot+bodyshot with 0.75s fire rate and again, this is a super slow projectile, the same speed as the throwing knives primary

The throwing knives literally throw two arrows, with a firerate of 0.67 between throws or something, where the bow gets one arrow every 0.75. I don't think it should remotely compete with the throwing knives on dps, but you can make it a lot less shit before it's op

#

throwing knives; burst of two knives 120 damage total, every 0.67 seconds, around 180 dps, bow, 60 damage every 0.75s 80dps

sand monolith
#

Bow isnā€™t meant to kill quickly itā€™s meant to pressure from range and peek corners up close

#

Its honestly fine it just needs hitreg to work properly and for uncharged arrows to fly faster so they can be used as finishers better

chilly granite
#

hitreg works perfectly, the arrows are too slow/they can be consistently dodged at 25meters

#

arrows travel 25m in 200ms

#

roughly, based on my testing

#

I hit every shot on people moving in straight lines but when people dodge....

#

ahhaha

lights move fast enoguh that they can just not be where the bow will be pretty easily, even heavies can dodge pretty consistently at 30meters; characters move too fast for the speed of the projectile

stoic garden
#

5v5 cashout my goat

chilly granite
# sand monolith Its honestly fine it just needs hitreg to work properly and for uncharged arrows...

Its honestly fine it just needs hitreg to work properly and for uncharged arrows to fly faster so they can be used as finishers better

the damage breakpoints need to be slightly kinder/headshots need to be more rewarding, it's worse dps hitting 100% headshots than the sr84 hitting like 60% headshots 40% bodyshots, and it's too easy to rush a shot and not twoshot headshot a heavy, espeically since the reload is so slow

I would be fine with shorter reload and longer draw, which makes most of the bow's problems worse, but means that you can finish a guy stealing your cashout faster if he's on 45hp

damage breakpoints are a huge problem because heavy is 41hp if you rush by 1ms on headshot+bodyshot combo, which is already 1.75s with undrawn bow if you're trying to clutch defend a cashout, the 0.75 to finish off a 41hp heavy is so toxic

#

espeically in point break with the 5s cap time, and the huge size of the arrow hitbox, if a enemy blocks one arrow it often becomes near impossible to stop a heavy in time, it's 2.5s but (some time) has already passed because you shot an arrow already, it's a tiny window

sand monolith
#

Idt anything should be balanced around point break but I wouldnā€™t mind bow having better breakpoints against heavy since shields counter it so hard anyways

chilly granite
#

yeah ther'es a bunch of counters that people just don't use/know because the bow has never eben good enough to bother learning them

#

flowerpots own the bow, just hold it in front and it's near impossible to hit lmao

#

the arrow hitbox is too big and the enviromental damage is bad

sand monolith
#

Idk if I would call that a counter cause then youā€™re not shooting back either

chilly granite
#

but you can wait for the arrow, and then shoot the guy cuz he has logn cooldownd

sand monolith
#

I also think bow just suffers from being a playstyle that isnā€™t supported by very strong specs or gadgets

chilly granite
#

there's a lot of cover that caan be used while shooting also

sand monolith
#

Hyper aggressive dash bow is better than grapple bow and itā€™s still not great

chilly granite
sand monolith
#

Thermal bore is theoretically good for opening up cover from a distance but in reality it blows

#

Thereā€™s not much to support long range, so most long range weapons just get stat buffed and are overtuned. Besides bow

chilly granite
# sand monolith Hyper aggressive dash bow is better than grapple bow and itā€™s still not great

thermal bore is the best combo since the delay lets you draw

dash bow is the play, grapple bow is not worht it, your movement is so crippled its awful

Idk if I would call that a counter cause then youā€™re not shooting back either

most railings the bow can't shoot throuhg at all, so it's 100% invincibility that hitscan can shooot through

Thermal bore is theoretically good for opening up cover from a distance but in reality it blows

I use it like dmat up close with dash

sand monolith
#

Yeah railings are annoying and need to be able to be shot through

chilly granite
#

it's not as good as meta choices like glithc, gateway, etc but it's fun and it works well with the bow

sand monolith
#

Nobody uses them as cover intentionally ever, itā€™s always accidentally blocking game winning shots

chilly granite
sand monolith
#

A slightly bigger hitbox would be nice

chilly granite
#

smaller please

#

like; you can be ahead of a light by his head's width, or behind, and it'll still hit

#

that's crazy and dumb

and that's why it gets stuck on everything, even low cover will block arrows

#

like, with the bow, a lights head hitbox is triple width and double height, idk what that is in area, but it's massive

#

and that makes the bow feel a lot bettter than it is at close ranges, but it doesn't help nearly as much at distance because the speed of the projectile/speed of the charcter/size of the hitbox math changes

and then that makes people think it has hitreg issues because shots that hit at 15m, just don't at 20m, because the hitbox size isn't enough to compensate for the inaccurate lead distance

#

at 20m, but it is at 15

#

Honestly I kinda like the speed of the uncharged arrows, I think it's cool having a slow paced projectile skill check for up close dps, but the problem is, right now the uncharged arrows are terrible dps, lowest in the game, 3.85s to kill a heavy, 1.5s to kill a light, while also being a really hard to hit projectile

i think buffing the reload/uncharged dps to a slightly more reasonable number, and nerfing the draw time to keep the drawn dps aobut the same, helps it both with making undrawn, drawn and partially drawn shots intersting and a good tradeoff and balance

also the timing for the drawn dps right now is so damn tight, it's 7ms increments which requires crazy precision

#

and the uncharged arrows also have a firedelay/animation so it's not even like they shoot instantly, it's 150ms, so the minimum draw is actually longer, WAIT I FORGOT TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT

it's 455ms MINIMUM draw for headshotting a light oneshot, and 640 for full draw!

#

the 750ms time does account for the pre-draw delay

#

600ms reload, 150ms minimum draw, 490ms dammage ramp time

#

Oh and as long as you hit more than 32% headshots, the sr84 has higher dps than the bow anyway

#

The only situations the bow is better than the sr84 are:

Headshot + bodyshot a medium with optimal timing (or double headshot) (which is very difficult timing, and easy to screw up since the projectiles are travelling at different speeds to achieve better performance than sr84)

Murdering a train of lights/grinding tdm (oops that's me)

Killstealing from your team

#

And even those, the sr84 usually outdoes the bow via consistency, hitscan/reach, and better instant DPS (as discussed, literally impossible to kill a v9s first unless your reaction times are sub 50ms or you knew they were coming)

#

I did finally do it though in a point break earlier, I double headshot a medium, one drawn one undrawn, 0.75s ttk, and it was like 40m too, shame I forgot to record

#

the one true advantage of the bow: beautiful skins ā¤ļø

#

hahhaha

ugh I'm tryna use gateway because I know it's strong but I just find it so boring to use lol

#

I'm running nulli for defending cashouts because the bow dps is a massive liability but I don't have any fun gadgets then

#

also the drawn bow not fading out teammate pings and such, and taking up 3/4 of the screen, is super annoying

#

rn bow basically obligates glitch + nullifier so you can deal with shields and steals, leaving only one slot free to play with, which is toxic

#

and the matter is honestly better at midrange beacuse some consistent, 100% reliably dps beats a 1 in 25 chance to do 124 damage every day of the week

#

so a full drawn projectile speed buff, undrawn dps buff (even jsut to put it equal to the sr84 or drawn bow, 88 or 100), 1.75x hs multi and a tiny arrow please, i think that fixes most of the bow's problems and I don't think that would be op

#

also I'd take a bodyshot damage nerf for an increase in headshot damage, I think that's pretty fair to make sure that there's no headshot+bodyshot combo on medium, that is the only thing about the bow that I think seriously could be op

#

but I think smaller hitbox making headshots harder would alread compensate a lot, because it'd still be a dodgeable projectile

#

basically hafl the bow headshot's you've ever suffered were likely a result of the huge hitbox

stoic garden
chilly granite
sudden jasper
#

can someone give me some good weapons for all builds

serene glade
#

Whatever you want to use

sonic zephyr
#

yeah listen to your heart and you will find the answer or so

muted condor
copper hazel
copper hazel
livid cradle
chilly granite
# copper hazel The best it can do is peek shooting on close range (which can be done way better...

Yeah the throwing knives are literally just a better bow right now, better DPS and better damage splits, just more annoying to use

Velocity is about the same too, tks just have extra gravity past 15m as far as I can tell

But the matter is the real goat for corner peeking, it's basically a flat better bow

The bow will hit slightly higher DPS on 12-20m but the DPS difference is so big that even out to about 12m the matter beats it out and the consistency is amazing

chilly granite
#

I always feel really bad when I headshot an obvious new player using sr84 trying to snipe and standing still lmao

#

Like fundamentally the travel time to 25 meters is about 200ms according to my testing, you can just crouch when you see a bow peek and you can't die hahaha

#

My testing might be a little off but for sure 35m is human reactable

peak monolith
#

Can somebody give me a breakdown of the PIKE and if it's actually worth using

chilly granite
#

Use the CB there you go

peak monolith
chilly granite
#

The pike has better ttk against medium and heavy but sucks because the ads time is bad so you can't stay mobile and corner peek as effectively as the CB, making the CB just better

peak monolith
#

I think the PIKE has value, and does REALLY good headshot damage, but I cannot get a grip on it's bullet spread so I hit 1 headshot every 10 mags

chilly granite
#

Use the lh1 if you get juicy for heads, the pike recoil is gross

peak monolith
#

exactly

chilly granite
#

For a medium weapon for heads famas

peak monolith
#

If it had easier recoil or less spread I would love it but I just can't hold it.

chilly granite
#

(I have heard, I haven't actually run famas any significant amount)

#

The pike isn't bad it just has 10 different minor issues that compound

peak monolith
#

Or maybe if it had more than 2 sights

chilly granite
#

If it had a few more bullets, a little better recoil, slight faster ads time, slightly better hipfire;any of these would probably make it instantly meta

#

Not better than the CB but in the conversation

peak monolith
#

If they change it at all it will be OP but leaving it where it is it's ass

chilly granite
#

Tbh I think better nerf it's competitors, the pike is in a reasonable place compared to sr84

#

The problem is that there are too many effective long range weapons rn imho

#

Like I think sr84 is one of the most well balanced guns in the game, I don't think anyone really hates it

#

Maybe that's a hot take? None of my friends ever really complain about the sr84, just sniper players hahaha

peak monolith
#

I feel like the body shot damage is stupid low, to the point that it can't CQC at all

#

If it did more or had better fire rate I wouldn't hate it as much.

chilly granite
#

It really isn't but the garbage hipfire and bad optic choices are the issue

#

It has a much better bodyshot ttk than a lot of mediums options, I think it beats akm?

#

It's awful to shoot up close so it feels terrible if you're not afk on a roof

#

.6 light 1.2 med 1.8 heavy, akm is .7 1.2 1.7

#

Pike is only a 1.5 hs multi actually so you should for sure be going for bodyshots

#

But it's very punishing if you miss a single shot, those ttks are quite split dependant, those ttks all go up by 300ms if you miss a shot, and in cqb between optic and bad hipfire you will miss a shot

indigo nexus
#

the right click is comparable in initial velocity to the bow, but the left click is much slower

chilly granite
#

Thanks for clarifying about the friction btw

#

The left click feels maybe 5% slower than the bow? I can use my windage for the undrawn bow and it hits consistently

indigo nexus
#

I never measured the undrawn bow speed, I don't know

#

I didn't think it was that much slower than the drawn velocity

#

throwing knives left click is something like 60m/s

chilly granite
#

That sounds about right

indigo nexus
#

with like 85 for the right click (plus less drag maybe? It's hard to be sure)

chilly granite
#

What did you measure the drawn bow at?

#

I got about 125 for the drawn bow, and the lead angle for the undrawn bow is a little over double the drawn bow

indigo nexus
#

hm, as it turns out I actually didn't. I misremembered that I had, but just left it on my to-do list

chilly granite
#

Slightly over double lead would correnspond with 60ms undrawn 125 drawn I think? Maths is hard and 3d angles are harder

indigo nexus
#

For lack of a precise comparison we could just call them comparable

chilly granite
#

I'm surprised the knife right click is 85 though, it feels faster, especially way faster compared to the left click

indigo nexus
#

of course, the throwing knives left click have slowed to almost a stop like 45m away, on flat ground, which does not happen to the bow

#

the right click goes much further, but I don't know how much of that is velocity and how much is a reduced drag, since I could not be bothered to do a complex investigation of it

chilly granite
#

Yeah, I like trying to hit long shots so I never could convince myself to swap to throwing knives hahaha

#

Mostly velocity I think because it drops like a rock at like 65

#

But that's a a guess from expirmentation with tks

#

But the hitbox on the bow is vastly bigger than the tks so the undrawn bow feels faster than it is, by virtue of being way too forgiving

#

Up close you often don't need to lead because it'll just hit them because short distance + big hitbox

#

By that I mean like, 5 meters

compact tundra
#

Yo @serene glade, sorry to ping you outta nowhere but I was reading #šŸ‘‚ā”‡game-feedback and like is that chips guy a friend of yours, please tell me he's just fucking with you and reading comprehension hasn't gotten that low

serene glade
#

i have no idea who that fella is. hes just an idiot from what i can tell

#

he had to have read the first 2 words of each bullet point

humble sparrow
#

How do you level up weapons exactly?

I've leveled up 5 weapons to level 2 so far and have tracked all the stats but I can't see a direct correlation

serene glade
#

just by doing damage with them im pretty sure, its a long ass grind. ive been exclusively playing mgl for like the last 30 hours of finals and am only at level 6

indigo nexus
#

all equipment varies a bit erratically in how long it takes to level

compact tundra
humble sparrow
#

That's what im saying doing combat damage doesn't correlate the same for each weapon. Each weapon levels combat differently. Why does a knife level up slower than the arn. Doesn't make sense

indigo nexus
#

riot shield gains XP by attacking as normal but seems to gain a lot from blocking shots too, and overall it ends up levelling up disproportionately faster than your typical weapon

serene glade
indigo nexus
#

Do they even still have that closed feedback group full of rubies anymore?

#

I've only heard it mentioned in the past tense for a while

serene glade
#

i sure hope not

humble sparrow
compact tundra
serene glade
#

goo gun is blocking damage only iirc so the best way to do that is to just run in at people at shoot your feet with goo to tank some damage. the gun level system is such a weird grind

serene glade
indigo nexus
compact tundra
serene glade
humble sparrow
serene glade
#

im pretty sure you can get a 3 stack and just place jump pads down in spawn and keep afk taking them to grind as long as you pick it up

dry widget
#

How to FCAR on controller PC aim-assist?

unkempt moss
stoic garden
dry widget
unkempt moss
serene glade
#

north america tag....i was thinking asia or something, but damn thats your native tongue

unkempt moss
#

Are you asking what the aim assist settings we use are? Or how to use it?

noble saddle
#

So I play around with several different builds, my experience in solo queue how strong all my staple builds feel.

I wanna make the light build stronger but I have no clue what the third gadget should be. Flashbang and Glitch Grenade feel great. Maybe frag? Idk

S:

Medium

  • Med Beam, Goo Grenade, Jump Pad, Defib, AR

Heavy

  • Mesh, Dome, SHAK, RPG, Anti Grav

A+:

Medium

  • Model, Demat, Frag, Mine, Jump Pad

Heavy

  • Minigun, Charge, Dome, Chuck, RPG

A:

Medium

  • Revolver, Pyro Grenade, Goo, Demat, Glitch Grenade
  • Pike, Turret, Defib, Motion Sensor, Zipline

B:

Medium:

  • CL40, Jump Pad, Zipline, Frag, Demat

Light

  • Matter, Dash, Flashbang, Glitch Grenade, Breach Charge
muted condor
#

Goo, jump pad, defib
Love that has been meta since day one

unkempt moss
#

No GooGun in S means its not real S tier.

serene glade
#

where is your mgl, pyro mine, frag grenade, goo grenade loadout

noble saddle
unkempt moss
#

I too give up immediately when something doesnt work

serene glade
#

charge and slam unfortunately is just a requirement with it

noble saddle
unkempt moss
#

Weren't you the one just effort posting meta and strength levels?

noble saddle
serene glade
#

i really like the hard read part of it, being able to predict movement and instantly kill someone with a preemptive nade and mgl shots is the only satisfying thing in the game rn. also mgl grenade and charge and slamming a light into it to insta kill them is fun

noble saddle
unkempt moss
thin acorn
#

Give the light class dual Blades

unkempt moss
#

This guy gets it

#

Dual Blades on light goes crazy. Then give spear a shoulder shield. Give each class a blocking melee.

#

Give heavy a Slugger that can hit grenades back.

sudden pewter
unkempt moss
#

catter did you see the newest hammer update were going to force embark in to?

livid cradle
#

Does anyone know how to counter dual swords, I came agains a team of 2 dual swords and a machine pistol and got cooked up. They just do the Ā“defensive stanceā€™ until they are in melee range and they one shot me, itā€™s op and idk how to beat them. I am playing light build with dash and machine pistol btw

serene glade
#

Just work with your team and angle them out, don't run into them like an idiot by yourself head on and it won't be OP

unkempt moss
eager wasp
#

ALSO if you can pick some damage off, if they get close enough you can out dps them once they start their attack

unkempt moss
#

Its a dueling weapon, so you're "supposed" to lose 1v1s unless its like flamethrower or launcher.

livid cradle
#

Thanks Iā€™ll try this

#

Lol I was just running into it alone

unkempt moss
#

These are the same strats as with riot shield basically.

#

On light with dash if they are running you down then you're engaging too hard on them.

sudden pewter
#

Congrats on green btw

unkempt moss
#

Don't say that to me... you know I hate greeners.

ornate delta
#

who wants to 2v2

unkempt moss
#

Me and googun vs which two mooks?

serene glade
muted condor
frail grove
sudden pewter
compact tundra
# unkempt moss Me and googun vs which two mooks?

Greener šŸ«µ
you šŸ«µ love the meta, you šŸ«µ love the famas, you šŸ«µ love mesh SA, you šŸ«µ love the majors, you šŸ«µ want AR buffs, you šŸ«µ want melee nerfs, you šŸ«µ main winch claw

livid cradle
#

The m11

#

Lol I just got a kill with a smoke can I didnā€™t even know they did damage

noble saddle
#

Model + explosives also actually

Basically the heavy builds and the CL40 build aren't as fun

frail grove
#

I always go with revolver.

noble saddle
# frail grove I always go with revolver.

I don't think I would have near as much fun with the revolver if I wasn't pairing it with the pyro Grenade. Not meta but hitting a heavy with a pyro grenade direct and then hammering bullets into their belly is always so satisfying

#

Also making hero play cashbox defenses with pyro grenade + headshots

frail grove
#

Yeah I should try that

noble saddle
frail grove
#

Sadly Iā€™m not familiar.

noble saddle
shell sonnet
calm wasp
#

is their a bug where the scope you use affects damage the weapon you use deals?

noble saddle
unkempt moss
stoic garden
analog pewter
stoic garden
#

no we're gaslighting there not actually a bug like that

unkempt moss
#

Its probablt just damage fall off.

stoic garden
#

damage falloff is the same no matter what sight you have

unkempt moss
#

I know but I mean the different zoom levels probably make the target look similar in size or something, and the damage is just falling off.

#

I took my best guess at what that person was talking about. Just trying to help a light player out.

stoic garden
#

you should refrain from helping light players, gaslight them into maining heavy instead

unkempt moss
#

Why? So we can bring the collective studliness down of heavy players? No thank you.

stoic garden
#

so more people enjoy the most fun of classes

#

also demat revolver mediums solo all heavy studs

bright tendon
#

lol

#

.

chilly granite
#

my adhd ass can barely stand using evasive dash instead of grapple hook you;ll never convince me to play heavy

hexed tulip
chilly granite
#

bro i get bored just watching sledgehammers smash buildings

#

heavy also has the problem of no engauging weaopns

#

tbh the heavy should hav a longbow instead of the bfr

#

also nothing make winch claw feel more op than playing grapplw

#

vs sledge winch

hexed tulip
chilly granite
#

yes but is it as fun as yeeting your body in the middle of 5 enemies with grapple hook and flashbangs and then trying to murder them all with bow before they catch on

#

I may feed, but it will be entertaining

hexed tulip
#

I also use flashbangs with sledge sometimes
very amusing to see them unable to do anything

unkempt moss
stoic garden
#

i am simply a well studied fellow

chilly granite
#

I'm pretty sure glitch/flash/nulli is my go to combo now, I've started hitting my flashes way more consistently and the glitch is just (ugh bow vs shield is the most painful shit) and nulli is a must have if I ever decide to play cashout or point break, and it's really, really funny even in tdm

unkempt moss
#

Its players like this that complain about winch.

chilly granite
#

I mean winch hitbox is fucked but I don't really care much beyond that

#

I haven't asked for it to be nerfed but it feels awful if you're running grapple. if you're running matter/bow, you're effective range is well within the winch range too

unkempt moss
#

After playing dagger I'll never understand the winch hate. 12m is the bow range? Are you the guy that was talking aboht about it being bad outside of 20m?

chilly granite
#

yeah, it is, you can litearlly dodge it reliably if you're paying attention (outside of 30m, not 20, but yeah)

#

there's a reason litearlly all the high level bow players play cqb bow lol

#

you can hit shots on players who aren't trying to dodge at any range

unkempt moss
#

So the extra 18m isnt enough to not stand in front of the murder giant?

chilly granite
#

if the cashbox is in the room with him, and that's why I have glitch grenade?

#

you're acting like you've never had a heavy pop out a gateway on your ass

unkempt moss
#

The only times I get winched are when im way out of position.

#

And playing heavy, googun just auto wins against winch.

chilly granite
#

I feel like you're trying to say skill issue nicely, but it's just coming off ruder than saying it lmao

unkempt moss
#

I would just say skill issue. Im trying to understand the thought process of those who are getting hit by winch and the winch is at fault.

chilly granite
#

also, you did totally ignore the idea of playing matter grapple and winch being a total hard counter to that

unkempt moss
#

Im trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. Thats just playing out of position on purpose, so its not really relevant.

chilly granite
#

I mean, regardless of anything else, the winch hitbox is too big and it causes a bunch of weird bugs, like getting pulled though wals

chilly granite
unkempt moss
#

No. Im saying youre playing out position on purpose so you get winched. It's not a real case against winch.

chilly granite
#

like the only viable combos with the grapple if you're maximum sweat is arn, bow lh1 type shit

chilly granite
unkempt moss
#

You said winch feels op against grapple. That's what im talking about.

chilly granite
#

I specifically said the only issue i ahve with winch is that the hitbox is buggy, despite it feeeliing op against grapple

#

a feeling is not an argument

unkempt moss
#

So you're just speaking in to the void about your feelings?

chilly granite
#

is that not what other humans are for?

unkempt moss
#

In the channel for discussing things about weapons and gadgets? I'd say you can speak your feelings but if it gets push back then thats reasonable as well.

chilly granite
#

that's reasonable unless I clarified thhat I wan'st arguing it's actually too strong

#

you can then tell me to shut up because it's off topic, but that's a differing argument

unkempt moss
#

Its on topic. I guess I thought you were in here to talk about things. Noted for the future.

chilly granite
#

I am, but sometimes it's vibes based and sometimes it's acutually thought through; that's why I clarified by saynig it was a feeling

unkempt moss
#

Understood. Ill wait for you to clarify next time.

chilly granite
#

you can ask if you're unsure, no stress

unkempt moss
#

I'm good. I'll just wait for you to let me know.

chilly granite
#

but yeah, i do feel like rather than it being grapple too weak/winch being too strong, rather I think that evasive dash just has too many fringe benefits

#

get out of jail free on so many gadgets and such

#

on a mere 6.5s cd with 3 charges

and this ain't a feeling I've thought a lot about this

#

but yeah I really love flashes they're so fun

#

I do think the flashes need better consistentcy, once buildings start blowing up it can get really hard to land effeective flashes, idk if that's a skill issue though

#

the one gadget I hate the most is glitch grenade though, I don't want to have to carry it but it's so useful when it's useful, and you don't want to meet a situation where it's a gamechanger without it

#

i should probably spam it more on random people to get more fringe benefit by de-dashing lights and the such like but I tend to save it, not sure if I"m being overly cautious

stoic garden
#

unless you know you're gonna be facing defib chains or overly problematic shield god heavies in the next 12 seconds i'd say use it whenever

chilly granite
#

Ywah I was thinking with the cd buff it makes a lot more sense to just dump it for a won fight

#

Not sure how hard it is to aim at a dash light but I guess I'll find out tomorrow lol

#

Actually having it useful more of the time than "when the game sucks to play" will help me actually enjoy it though

#

Make it feel less like a dead slot that I just have to take so I'm not being a liability with my bow

stoic garden
chilly granite
#

I think while I'm solo queuing I'll stick with flashes on the third slot though, it feels a lot better than h+ when your team comp is double light medium (and doubly so when the teammates are doing dumb things)

stoic garden
#

i couldn't tell you in meters, you should try in practice range

chilly granite
#

I got a pretty good idea of the radius from throwing it at heavy shield parties (especially in point break lol) but I don't generally throw it at an awake/moving target lol

#

My flash practice should help there though

#

I feel like nullifier and glitch is just needed to cover the weaknesses of the bow so I'm not griefing/throwing, but I'm not sure if flashes are really good enough for the third slot, like thermal bore, gateway and h+ all seem like strong contenders

#

I love flashes though they're so fun, my least favourite thing about light is how many op gadgets light has cuz it makes it really hard to take slightly worse gadgets

#

Like my dream load out is frag grav vortex thermal bore or something but there's 0 chance that I win with that lmao

#

Someone probably can but it isn't me

compact tundra
#

That's my loadout tho gateway and arguably vanish aren't mid tier

chilly granite
#

I don't enjoy gateway at all tbh

compact tundra
#

I love it, makes me such a slippery rat since I run
Grapple
Sword
Gateway
Vanish
Breach

chilly granite
#

Tbh if you run grapple I think gateway is needed to not be trolling, I run grapple without gateway but thats only in casual and I know I'm trolling hahhaha

#

That does seem like a super fun load out though

The main issue I have with gateway is just that it's mechanically annoying to use, like prethrowing, keeping an eye on the cooldown, etc

#

Like when I use it, while I do grief my gateways a lot because I'm so unfamiliar with it, I also see the potential and the crazy power of it, but I can't get over how unstatisfyibg it feels to use

#

Gravity vortex is also really weird, it's kinda good? But it takes too long to activate so people can usually run out of the radius, and escape isn't that hard, and the activation is like breach charge which totally griefs the bow draw

#

Thermal bore feels like it's better than flashes but there's a lot of situations it doesn't feel that strong in, I think that's just a skill issue though

#

I probably just need to research thermal bore tech

compact tundra
#

Thermal bore is more of a way to open sightlines from a distance, which on bow is pretty good. I haven't used it much since season 3-4ish but I've recently fallen in love with breach charge since you get 3 whole ass charges that can be detonated remotely, peak stalling tool

sudden pewter
#

I fucking love Point Break but jesus why is it so difficult for Embark to fix dragging the obj into spawn

shell sonnet
eager wasp
#

very fun, but thats 7 bad teammates and that just sucks

hexed tulip
shell sonnet
hexed tulip
#

that would eliminate the issue of them running in and out of their safe zone

#

that comes with making it not shootable

shell sonnet
shell sonnet
eager wasp
hexed tulip
river relic
#

a weapon like the P90 which doesn't hold damage over range well like the FCAR or AKM should not have a higher TTK than the FCAR or AKM when the P90 is intended for close range

river relic
hexed tulip
shell sonnet
sudden pewter
#

Been playing Point Break all day and I can definitely agree the quality of teamates is more a factor on wether you win or lose

bright tendon
#

.

analog pewter
carmine fjord
#

yall do i buy horizon hammer or high noon revolver skin

analog pewter
#

i dont think high noon has special animations

sudden pewter
shell sonnet
analog pewter
#

they need to do like the dough wrangler and add an eclipse shade revolver skin that uses the horizon hammer anims

sudden pewter
#

Sidenote: The most vocal complainers seem to be the ones that perform the worst.

analog pewter
#

another thing I'd love for a revolver skin is one that makes it like transparent plastic w/ electronic components inside, and it makes all the rounds in the cylinder visible

sudden pewter
#

I'd definitely like to see some QA on pointbreak, namely Spec selected in the tab menu, and for relevant player info to appear when looking directly at a dot

sudden pewter
#

I hate discords file size limit and I refuse to pay for Nitro

heavy lava
sudden pewter
#

Skype let me upload shit up to 2GB how have we regressed

analog pewter
#

@chilly granite u are right a half charged arrow should kill a light on headshot i hate this weapon now

#

but like i cant imagine advocating for making this weapon harder to land shots with. like making the hitbox as a whole smaller feels insane. it is already maybe the most challenging weapon to consistently land shots with, let alone the headshots it's reliant on, especially given its shots take time to charge. and it's probably the most punished for missing of any weapon, I get the frustration of railings blocking shots but that's a case for railings to have hitbox exceptions/pass-through projectiles, not changing the hitbox size of the weapon lmao

#

like TF2 solved this 2 decades ago, railings and similar things have special collision that only blocks players, but passes through bullets and projectiles

#

I just dont think the most punishing, precise weapon in the game should become harder to land shots with just because railings are sometimes annoying

#

and i also dunno if it should have more reward for hitting, it's already got pretty extreme numbers
so like to me the only way to make the bow better to use without making it super polarizing is to make the hitbox vs players more lenient

heavy lava
#

question for anyone: what would you add as a new weapon

sudden pewter
#

Javelin for Heavy, Bow mechanics where you need to charge a throw and it can OHK Lights because fuck them.

#

No melee. Strictly for throwing.

eager wasp
unkempt moss
sudden pewter
unkempt moss
#

Glad we can agree

sudden pewter
#

Also, it has a quiver. None of this bottomless XXX bullshit. It's gotta reload after 6 or so Javelins thrown

unkempt moss
#

Or an orbital laser the heavy ripped out of the sky and walks around with.

sudden pewter
#

You need to collect fruits around the arena to regen it's health

analog pewter
eager wasp
#

gg, theres a yikes impersonator

unkempt moss
analog pewter
#

steel chair skin for the sledge

blazing hearth
#

maybe a like binoculars? Really situational and not the best for literally any non sniper build, but maybe I couls see it

sudden pewter
#

What purpose would the binoculars serve?

#

Now that Iā€™ve thought about it, Iā€™d love to see something akin to the Model on Heavy. I suppose the KS23 is what our closest is but its inaccuracy upsets me greatly

serene glade
#

I really wanna see a couple full autos turned to projectile weapons frogonesie

unkempt moss
#

Cerberus to heavy you say?

modern sun
#

hi

unkempt moss
#

Hello, raider.

muted condor
#

DONT SHOOT

sudden pewter
#

Letā€™s break it down

boreal laurel
blazing vector
#

Guys should I go to sleep or continue playing the finals

noble saddle
#

I have won two tournaments solo queue with the light build

matter, dash, gas Grenade, breach charge, flash grenade

I'm having so much fun

#

Gas Grenade brought the whole thing together for me

#

Also look how hard this shit goes with the panda charm

unkempt moss
#

And you had to charge it up a certain amount before it could fire. Like a shoulder mounted laser cannon. And it could do like 135 raw, no headshot multiplier

#

No damage fall off

#

And it collateral other contestants behind them.

noble saddle
# unkempt moss And you had to charge it up a certain amount before it could fire. Like a should...

I think giving heavy a Barrett 50 cal that basically works exactly like the lights sniper rn but slower in basically all aspects, reload speed, time between shots, smaller clip size, also tracer shots so you can locate the heavy who shot it. I'd also be for making it a projectile and not hitscan.

Payoff being it should be able to pierce multiple contestants and break down walls, also should have very high damage. Feast or famine kinda weapon.

#

Just imagine how satisfying it would be to shoot it lol. I feel like balance it on the side of caution but give it that satisfying crack and high collateral damage

The idea would be that once I get within 25 m the heavy is significantly more helpless

livid cradle
#

Wouldnā€™t this be op with sonar grenades or tracer dart

noble saddle
#

The way I talk about it, it's almost like it would be a gadget and not a primary, RPG alternative

#

Not entirely against it now that I think about it

livid cradle
#

Yeah if it was a gadget and took time to regen more shots like the tracer dart but slower, it could be good

heavy lava
heavy lava
heavy lava
unkempt moss
#

Spartan Laser on heavy would be so elite. Please give me that over a boring as sniper.

livid cradle
#

Heavy needs some kind of auto shotgun, I donā€™t play as heavy but I did notice a lack of auto shotguns, and if not heavy then the light. Also change the shotgun retinal so it feels like a shotgun, maybe make the edge things on the retinal bits of a circle instead of a line like in other games

unkempt moss
#

SA probably fills that roll on heavy.

noble saddle
unkempt moss
#

Pike is more of a DMR isn't it?

heavy lava
#

and because of my dumahh skill issue i cant use the ks23

heavy lava
livid cradle
#

Lol I completely forgot abt the ks23 but it isnā€™t good tho

analog nimbus
#

Tracking dart sucks

unkempt moss
#

It has sword combos bro

visual jungle
#

Yall

#

Whatā€™s meta for a M build

unkempt moss
#

Famas, defib, jump pad, goo

#

Demat or heal

mint raptor
digital stag
#

._. using dmat, pyro grenade, dfib and gas mine

chilly granite
# analog pewter I just dont think the most punishing, precise weapon in the game should become *...

I think part of the reason why it feels hard to get consistent with the bow is because the bow doesn't give reliable feedback on aim because the hitbox is so big; you can aim a whole lights head too far forward or too far behind where you need to lead and still hit which is a crazy amount of forgiveness and makes learning the lead extremely difficult, and is also why I think a lot of people see the bow as having hitreg issues

I do think they should improve the projectile speed of a fully drawn arrow though, it's just too slow to hit players who are aware you exist at medium to long range which isn't cool

That would also help mitigate the increased difficulty of a small arrow

A small arrow also helps with players trying to body block, or using flower pots for defense, which is currently obscenely effective against the bow, especially considering I don't think the bow can out DPS heal beam on bodyshots

chilly granite
#

And the arrow being so forgiving actually makes it super op for door spam, I get so many accidental free kills on door spam

The throwing knives already have a vastly smaller hitbox than the bow, about what I think would be reasonable, and I don't see anyone saying they should have a bigger hitbox

polar edge
#

is V9s irl counterpart is also V9s or V9?

image.png
chilly granite
#

laugo alien

#

damn that's pretty

chilly granite
#

@analog pewter and having the bow projectile be twice as big as a lights head doesn't help much at range because it's constant; it just makes it behave more like a shotgun

the arrow projecile is about as wide as the matters inner 9 pellet spread at 4 meters, for context

chilly granite
#

at long ranges, the large projectile provides less benefit because the amount of distance the enemy can traverse, and the amount of change in velocity the can impart before the arrow hits increases, but the hitbox width is constant, which is why the bow is op in cqb right now

like having a matter which does the inner 9 pellets but any of the deal 124 damage is op

at 5 meters, it's more like the inner 5 pellets but all of them do 124 damage

at 8 meters it's like the inner edge of the inner 5 pellets

and the travel time is irrelevelnt at such close ranges too

if you actually had to lead your shots in cqb (which is technically true now but usually made irrelevent by the arrow being the size of the moon) then nobody would be arguing any change could make the bow op lol

that's why when you see two bow users dueling they just dodge each others shots constantly, because they know if they stand at 10m then they're fsat enoguh to dodge basically every shot lmao

#

also I just did some testing and my arrow hit the bots shoulder before it's head, denying a headshot just becuase the arrow is that fat, I moved my crosshair up and further away fromthe bots head and it then hit a headshot because it was high enough to not collide wtih the arm projecting forard to hold the gun

compact tundra
#

I think bow is pretty well balanced as is, I don't really see a reason to change it

chilly granite
#

slower ttk than the flamethrower when undrawn

#

technically impossible to hit shots beyond 25m

#

if the enmy is awake/dodging

compact tundra
#

Yea but the whole point is to draw it. It's a ranted semi auto with infinite ammo and a decent fire rate, it's gotta have a limiting factor and I think bow draw is a pretty good one

chilly granite
#

for sure, and I think it should be bad, but there's "worse than every other light weapon" and there's "worst weapon in the entire game"

#

3.85s to kill a heavy with undrawn bow is unbelieveable

compact tundra
compact tundra
chilly granite
#

undrawn bow

#

I'm saying I'm fine with it being worse than all lights weapons, but it shouldn't have a worse ttk undrawn than even the slowest heavy weapon, espeically when the bow already comes with a lot of weaknessess and caveats

#

3.85s is crazy long time when you're already getting the debuffs of a slower projectile and lower per-hit damage compared to drawn

#

and I'm not saying it's the worst weapon in the game, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have significant problems that need adressing

chilly granite
#

character acceleartion outpaces the bow travel time at around 15m, so adad spam at 15m is already extremely effective

compact tundra
chilly granite
#

if you're traveling in a straight like I can hit you pretty consistently out to 70m becuase my crosshair has windage for the bow lol

muted condor
#

This guy been yapping about the bow for almost 48 hours now šŸ’€

chilly granite
compact tundra
chilly granite
#

if someone was spam firing undrawn arrows into a doorway just peek with a flowerpot and the flowerpot will soak them all anyway

compact tundra
muted condor
chilly granite
#

and what's wrong with that? being one of the best weapons is fine if it's not overpowerd

muted condor
#

Hour 32 currently

compact tundra
#

Isn't Bow also viable in comp, I'm pretty sure bow is considered an off meta viable weapon

chilly granite
#

not anyoen i've seen say it is or use it

#

and I've looked

#

if the bow had better splits like the sniper it'd probably be more relevent but right now the splits are awful so it's extremely easy to undercook shots even wiht expiereince

muted condor
#

Considering the lack of bow skins I wouldnā€™t count on any changes to it

compact tundra
#

No but like being serious I'm pretty sure bow is viable. Its infinite ammo, a decently quick charge time, 1 taps lights on head, and just had an overall amazing DPS if you know when to release the charge

muted condor
#

The number of legendary skins for a weapon is a decent indicator if Embark plans on ever touching a weapon

compact tundra
muted condor
#

That was last season

compact tundra
#

Hell funnily enough spears got a lot of legendary skins

muted condor
#

They need to drop another 3-5 ANR skins before they can balance another weapon

chilly granite
compact tundra
muted condor
chilly granite
#

the m11 is 530ms, 660ms, 410ms with headshots, and these guns all have a lot less downsides than the bow

#

660/410 is the arn

muted condor
#

Although China has gotten a bigger hand in the game now so balancing might get even worse

chilly granite
#

and for all of these, the downtime if you miss a shot, is much, much smaller than the bow

indigo nexus
#

I think the idea is that balancing around the meta is nonsensical as the meta does not represent the general state of the balance and is poised to become shifted and weakened over time.

serene glade
#

i hope they remove the bow from the game after reading some of this

muted condor
#

They should nerf bow just despite this one guy

chilly granite
#

now that's really, really fun, but it's not actually better lmao