💣┇weapons-gadgets

[sudden pewter]

Might be a new bug introduced with the season, I’d submit a bug report in #1201841543926005810

[silk jungle]

been happening ever since i went back to healbeam like 3 weeks ago. but yeah ill do that

[umbral stone]

Y’all I’ve been waiting so many seasons for grapple to get the tiniest bit of love. Literally just give me 1 second off the cooldown or anything. Idk how they can see a spec underperform since release both in pick rate and win rate and just refuse to touch it. Turret is still shit in high elo but at least they’ve tried messing around with it. It’s easily the highest skill ceiling spec on light and it sucks that you don’t feel rewarded for mastering it.

[sudden pewter]

• Grapple is fine, just overshadowed by Dash

• Turret definitely needs work, it’s just difficult to meaningfully buff without fucking Lights funky style.

• OFC you don’t feel rewarded for mastering grapple, it’s simple and doesn’t have depth.

Hopefully after Cloak gets some work done Grapple could get some adjustments

[umbral stone]

Idk I definitely don’t think dash needs a nerf light is barely holding on as is I think it’s just the last viable spec they have left in competitive play. Grapple doesn’t dominate at any level of play, casual or competitive, and it also doesn’t have a high pick rate so I don’t see how that means it’s fine as it is.

[sudden pewter]

Dash is Lights most popular spec but Grapple isn’t underpowered. Dash simply offers more use cases I suppose? It’s good for traversing the map, midfight, and escapes. And there’s no animation Light is locked into (unlike grapple)

I’m sure it’s not a popular opinion but I believe Dash could lose a charge (compensated with CD or distance maybe)

Maybe Grapple could get the TitanFall2 treatment where its CD is based on the distance the grapple traveled before anchoring?

[umbral stone]

Yea idk agree to disagree I guess. I’m a light main with probably 50% of my time spent with grapple and the other 50% split between cloak and dash. Dash is so much easier to use and just provides more value in almost every situation. Map traversal is only helpful for last second plugs now, especially since they nerfed the gateway distance so I can no longer use it to transport my team how I used to. In combat dash has every advantage, and even tho I’ve spent easily twice the amount of time on grapple I’ll always do better when I switch to dash which is why it’s the only spec seen in competitive play. Cd based on distance would be great. Cd reduction on a kill is another cool suggestion I’ve seen. Or like I said just knock a second or two off the cool down if they’re too lazy to rework it. It’s never over preformed and it’s under picked at every level of play. Idk it’s just my favorite spec in this game and I wish they gave it some love because it is so much fun.

[graceful nova]

Grapple is amongst the fastest way to climb anything in the game, and height advantage is big.

Jump pad can give height too but the enemy can also use it. Grapple can be used in midair and on demand.

Map traversal for the sake of fast deposits is a big deal.

People just need to learn how to pass the box to deposit faster.

One time I threw a cashbox upwards onto some teammate waiting on the cashout’s floor. He was mind blown by just that.

[umbral stone]

I know the up sides of grapple I’ve got loads of playtime with it and I’m not denying those. But you can’t deny the fact the it’s rarely if ever seen in competitive play. I think there was one team in the majors who tried it and they didn’t even qualify. It’s also not causing an issue for casual players since it’s much more difficult to use effectively than dash. I guess those are my main reasons I think it needs a buff. It’s not that there’s no benefits to it, it’s just that those benefits aren’t enough to make it a competitive option and they never have been. That’s why I’m surprised they’ve only ever touched it once since this games release

[sudden pewter]

How is it more difficult to use than dash? It’s more reliant on positioning sure (needs terrain to function) sure, but that’s not difficulty

[blazing maple]

Dash is pretty much only way to go as long as the winch is around and if they took away one charge they should just delete dash all together... I would love to play just grapple but its just not good enought

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[umbral stone]

Idrk how to describe it but if you’ve played with both for a significant amount of time it just is. You can be a lot more careless with your positioning with dash and you don’t have to be as vigilant about the cool down. If you’ve make a push with grapple you can’t back out the way you can with dash if it goes bad because you’ve gotta wait for the full cooldown. That’s not even mentioning all the neongutz style tech there is with the grapple. Even just using it for traversal and learning how to get the best arch that’ll take you the furthest consistently takes awhile to pick up on.

Dash is very intuitive by comparison and much more forgiving if you mess up

[sudden pewter]

Definitely an agree to disagree, I found grapple to be very straightforward

Agree with the points about Dash though, it’s Lights strongest option

[umbral stone]

I’ve never seen a new player jump off the side of the map catch themselves with a goo grenade throw a gateway above them and then trick and make an opponent fall to their death using the grapple. And that’s just one of many tech’s you can do with it. Neongutz has a 30 minute long video breaking down all the crazy movement shit he does on his channel. I learned pretty much everything there is to know about dash after one game with it, there’s just not much to it. But if you found grapple easier to use that’s subjective, so I can’t really disagree with that. Just confuses me a bit

[compact tundra]

Idk as a grapple sword grapple is kinda a sleeper pick imo, plus when you aggressively grapple at people they have no clue what to fucking do, they kinda just freeze cause you closed a 10m gap by orbiting them

[umbral stone]

It definitely has its moments, but I guarantee that’s not working against a coordinated team

[sudden pewter]

That’s sword in general, melee in general really

[umbral stone]

Fair point

[rough beacon]

Was anybody else hoping for new weapons this season?

[sudden pewter]

Personally? No! There’s been a pile of weapons in the corner of the room collecting dust and in need of balancing. Rather than throwing more onto the pile I’d rather Embark focused on bringing what we already have up to par.

[placid slate]

Now we have both no new weapons, and a pile of weapons in the corner of the room collecting dust

[rough beacon]

Ya😂

Like dude it’s really hard to balance and there is no way that every weapon will be fully balanced anytime soon

[outer crow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[compact tundra]

You'd be surprised sometimes but really it's best to hunt people out of position

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, the balance changes launching with this season are very underwhelming. 100% on Embark and I feel many are rightfully displeased with how much attention they put into TGM and not the games health

[rough beacon]

Honestly I like some of the changes but if there’s no new content or something to shake up strategies there will be less hype

The winch changes for example did have that kinda impact

[sudden pewter]

Some of the changes were obviously in the weapons best interests, the main reason for player displeasure is in why they took so long to do them.

[placid slate]

I haven't felt it

[sudden pewter]

KS-23 being accurate was a gimme, why wasn’t it this way since S5?

[rough beacon]

Ya I feel that they should be a lot more experimental with the changes they are making and maybe have some extra in between season changes

[blazing maple]

me neither. There should be counters for medium and light

[sudden pewter]

LTM’s are fertile soil for testing proposed changes and I hope the spear spin from HoH makes its way into the basegame

[placid slate]

Because they lazy as hell, also they weren't cooking in season 5 where they thought only 1 balance patch was a good idea

[placid slate]

Nah bro that shits worse than spin cancel

[sudden pewter]

It’s something at least, watch them fix spin cancel because it’s tech

[compact tundra]

I've actually come to love the winch rework. Now the winch is so damn snappy and immediately just yanks whoever you hit, but it has counters so you gotta be aware of them, I like it a lot

[placid slate]

The whole tech speel they did is nigh perfect built for spin cancel twin

[sudden pewter]

When green

[compact tundra]

Yesterday 😁

[sudden pewter]

I just want it as a vanilla feature 😔

[noble saddle]

I really like how strong glitch trap is feeling for me right now.

It is a really good way to deal with the shield meta at least in pubs.

Glitch trap + burst brawl medium is really really good

[rough beacon]

Also I hope that you guys recognize the small barricade change where you can now place it wherever you want and even behind you

[placid slate]

Read the thing numbnuts

[sudden pewter]

Skibidi Toilet

[sturdy hull]

Hi, I didn't receive the Emerald skin for P90 for reaching Emerald Rank 1, I don't know why, I received other skins

[rough beacon]

They said it was a glitch and they are fixing

[sudden pewter]

Wrong chat, you can open a ticket through eggmail in #📧┇contact-us or submit a bug report #1201841543926005810

[rough beacon]

It’s in game announcements if you want to go check

[rough beacon]

Yuh that one

Also how do you get the little sponsor badge you have?

[sudden pewter]

channels and roles at the top of your channel list

[rough beacon]

Ok

[sudden pewter]

Select whichever you like, note some roles provide access to special channels

[rough beacon]

Yay

Also can they plz bring back thermal vision

[sudden pewter]

I’ve seen a lot of stink being made over Thermal Vision, could you explain why so many are crying out for its immediate return?

[compact tundra]

It was fun and countered cloak rats

[sudden pewter]

Is it as simple as “I wanna run smoke thermal” or is there more to it?

[compact tundra]

Plus it helps with people with low graphics see better, I know it helped me when I was on my shit tv

[placid slate]

They added alot more visual clutter this season

[sudden pewter]

You mean with the visual complexity of Fengwei City?

[placid slate]

No, dust, lots of it

Much thicker now too

[sudden pewter]

I haven’t seen any issues related to Dust so far, but I’ll keep that in mind when I play today

[unkempt moss]

Too many weapons that need love. If you buffed certain weapons in to viability it would be like adding weapons this season. You could effectively add 6 or so weapons this season, just based off of their low visibility and pick rate.

[sudden pewter]

Reworking or Changing formerly lackluster options are essentially new weapons, 100%. Not that anyone is against new toys, but priorities should certainly be weighted to what exists rather than doesn’t imo

[unkempt moss]

The KS is like a top 3 heavy weapon for me. Them making it actually usable is more than a new weapon probably could've provided for me. Same with dual blades. An MGL buff/rework would be a huge deal for me for sure.

Seeing things like the model show up more already has added variety we haven't had in a while.

[sudden pewter]

I fucking love the KS in terms of weapon feel and the inaccuracy was something I personally championed to see addressed. Very happy it’s finally changed but it shouldn’t have taken so long

[unkempt moss]

I agree. The feeling of knocking someone down woth the KS is unmatched by pretty much anything in the game. The sound and feel of the weapon are on a different level.

[sudden pewter]

It’s definitely far from an ideal weapon in most matchups but everything about it otherwise is top tier, hopefully this season we get an Eclipse Shade skin

[rough beacon]

Yo lokey I just thought of the best weapon skin idea

It’s a mythic for the throwing knives but I can’t post in the art channel because I’m not leveled up

How do you check your level and level up?

[compact tundra]

You level up by talking on the server, you check rank by going to the rank check chat

[shell sonnet]

-levels

[raven finch]

Our leveling system

"Why can't I do some things in the server?"

• You may need to level up first!

How to level up? Just look around and join conversations. Lots to talk about!

Lvl 0: Newbie 0xp
• join VC • make bug reports • chat in most channels
Lvl 1: <@&1011197091470647317> 35xp
• create new VC • reactions • external emoji • images in drip check, pet channel
Lvl 3: <@&1011197119199191071> 115xp
• images in most channels • embeds in main chat
Lvl 8: <@&1133322765194235904> 1015xp
• embeds and images everywhere
Lvl 15: <@&1012661788401217579> 3955xp
• external stickers • VC streaming • bragging rights!

Role descriptions: #👋┇welcome
Check your rank: #🏆┇rank-check

[shell sonnet]

Ah, there we go

[compact tundra]

We have a pet channel?

[hidden fossil]

message 6

[unkempt moss]

Can we reset our rank?

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, my cats are in there

[unkempt moss]

How many cats do you have?

[compact tundra]

Huh, I gotta get some pictures of my goofy ass pug in there

[unkempt moss]

Also, would my murder of crows count as pets?

[compact tundra]

I would count them

[unkempt moss]

Based.

[shell sonnet]

Pets are pets
Any animal probably

Surely its subject to less moderation, or well, strict rules

[unkempt moss]

You never know around these parts...

[sudden pewter]

I foster (vet field) but I now own 4 cats

[placid slate]

Make them play the finals so you have a 5 stack

[weary eagle]

I tested and full combo is about .1 seconds faster while being easier to pull off

[sudden pewter]

I only ever have a two because my Chud friends refuse to play peak

[weary eagle]

You should do full combo + qm against heavies. Swap cancelling is still useful if you need to reflect but are stuck in a swing

[rough beacon]

-level

[placid slate]

Thats why you train the cats

[rough beacon]

-levels

[sudden pewter]

He doesn’t know

[rough beacon]

Are we so serious rn

[sudden pewter]

#🏆┇rank-check go here and do -r

[rough beacon]

Sweet

[sudden pewter]

I need a life holy shit 💩

[unkempt moss]

Surprised they don't have a top 500 color for the discord

[rough beacon]

Lokey rocket jump should be a thing with the rpg or grenades

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[unkempt moss]

Hes going to clap at you

Youre not allowed to say heavy should have fun movement options.

[sudden pewter]

Rocket jumping is becoming the new “Heavy needs a sniper”

[rough beacon]

😭

[sudden pewter]

What dumbass planted this into the general zeitgeist’s FoV

[rough beacon]

Who said that???

[unkempt moss]

I think the flame thrower right click should be point the barrel down and rocket trooping

Rocket jumping as been a thing forever. People see rocket and want to rocket jump. Its not a dumb ass that said it, its just videogames.

[sudden pewter]

But what started this trend in The Finals?

[unkempt moss]

The fact that theres a rocket in it.

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-gif-8037700062970091444

[unkempt moss]

Ive been wanting rocket jumping since I played the beta.

[weak kernel]

and they gave him a sniper. bodes well

[unkempt moss]

Id trade damage for two charges and rocket jumping.

[sudden pewter]

At least it doesn’t OHK, but Embark has definitely been playing with shaking what’s been considered foundational balance as of late

Heavies lack of range, Mediums dive efficacy, etc.

(Yes Heavy had the Akimbo’s but they have CoF that increases with RoF and that reigned it in effectively)

[unkempt moss]

This is why ive been saying they are moving to the frame work of building roles within your own team. Not hard set roles.

[sudden pewter]

I disagree, archetypes are cemented and even addressed as such in the latest Season 9 trailer. Medium specializes in Support (one avenue of which being healing) but Heavy/Light have healing options

Although, H+ arguably does healing in a more meaningful way than the HealGun does, which is more an issue with Embarks design team because holy fucking shit what a shitfest it was when it launched

And it was almost unchanged for an entire fucking season

[unkempt moss]

Every class has support items.

[sudden pewter]

Yes, options are good

But a dedicated mobility tool in regards to Heavy is insanely dangerous

[unkempt moss]

Every class has grenades, CC, mines, movement, pretty much every variation of guns.

[sudden pewter]

Sniper is unique to Light because the damage potential is offset by Lights having health so low they’re forced to reposition once they’re focused

[unkempt moss]

Wasn't someone just crying that heavy has a "sniper"

[sudden pewter]

It’s certainly a Sniper of sorts?

Really high damage long range option, but when I refer to sniper I’m talking about a long barrel rifle with OHK potential

Many dumb stupid doodoo heads wanted Heavy to have a Beretta .50cal Rifle that could shoot through walls

[unkempt moss]

My point is that every class having everything is probably better for the game. Because it allows for more freedom within the team.

[sudden pewter]

Player Freedom is a tightrope because ultimately everything needs to be balanced

Fun, doesn’t mean balanced.

[unkempt moss]

As someone who plays heavy almost exclusively i would never want to have a sniper on the class. Its a waste of potential for a class that already has the best weapons in the game for the most part.

I personally dont care about balance to a meaningful degree, but I understand people want it.

I dont care about my rank, I only care about playing the video game to have fun because at the end of the day it doesn't matter outside of that.

[rough beacon]

I know this is out of pocket but a railgun utility item that can break through 3 walls and know people backwards would be sick (it would take time to charge like 2 seconds and would have to reload)

[unkempt moss]

Ive always wanted power weapons in the game for teams to fight for. Something like that would be perfect for a map pick up.

[coral root]

Reverting the nullifier back to stun gun has never looked so right

[rough beacon]

Since the light already has the thermal bore it could be good for medium

I think embark should just experiment more with knockback items

[unkempt moss]

Can you explain to me, someone who touches light basically for the circuit challenges, why lights dont like nullifier?

It feels pretty good to me when I use it.

[rough beacon]

It only stalls and its hard to aim

You also have to reaload and there are better items to pick up

[compact tundra]

As a sword main stun gun can rot in hell and nullifier is infinitely healthier for the game

[unkempt moss]

I feel like nullifier isnt inherently strong but its wins games fairly often.

[compact tundra]

Nullifier has the same good ass perk stun had, a free steal stopper. Lights just miss the free kill button

[unkempt moss]

Do lights use it to single out targets when out numbered? For me its nice when you need force a duel

[shell sonnet]

I love to use it to joink boxes for free

[compact tundra]

I like forcing duals/3v2's/2v1's and for stopping steals

[shell sonnet]

Doing it to spear heavies that dropped on the platform expecting a wipe is funny

[unkempt moss]

Stopping defib, stopping people from stopping our steal. CnS. Its like a less good goolock basically in its utility.

[compact tundra]

I think it's a better goo stun in some situations cause it lasts longer and lets you fight the others while they're stunned

[unkempt moss]

I often wonder how much a lack of imagination hurts the players of this game. Because the nullifier seems great with just a bit of effort and time on it.

[compact tundra]

It is, I just prefer my pride and joy's the gateway and the breach charge

[shell sonnet]

I dont really use gateway much at all

[unkempt moss]

I see it a lot with the goo gun. Its like people dont want to express themselves through gameplay. And if thats the case why play The Finals.

[rough beacon]

A way to buff it is if it stalled items like the turret and shields making it kind of an emp as well but in sniper form

[compact tundra]

Yea, I think goo gun is so good and people don't put the time or effort in to make it so good

[unkempt moss]

Like the amount of people that jumped on Goo and AntiGrav not being good for movement was wild to me.

[compact tundra]

Being able to nullify turrets would be a good buff honestly, but turret in its current form doesn't need any more counters

Shields would be too much, they're supposed to block it

[shell sonnet]

[Insert wall of text turret rework again]

[compact tundra]

Do it coward

[rough beacon]

Well then they could increase cooldown really high so you have to be smart with it cuz if someone is stealing with a shield you can get the shield down but not the player

[unkempt moss]

I just think the berserk mode is a bit underbaked but the other major change is good.

[shell sonnet]

If you ask so nicely

[shell sonnet]

Goof sounda like goofy, as in bad
Iirc you did like it?

[compact tundra]

I haven't seen yours yet actually, I'm glad I bullied

[shell sonnet]

How would you properly bake it then?

[compact tundra]

Idk I think giving turret a goo counter is really needed

[shell sonnet]

Hey, congrats on becoming grassless

[compact tundra]

Thank you, the sunlight now hurts my pasty skin

[unkempt moss]

Grenade or gun?

Because you wont be able to stop Gun from countering turret

[sudden pewter]

If Turret is going to receive meaningful buffs I’d want goo to continue to counter.

[compact tundra]

Counter is fine but one goo shot hard countering is too much

[unkempt moss]

What buff are you thinking will stop that?

[shell sonnet]

Let me know when you got improvement ideas/your opinion on it please

[compact tundra]

I like the berserk idea, It gives the medium a button press to release the goo but the heavy can reapply it if they are still alive

[compact tundra]

Honestly I like it, but we need to be careful with damage

[unkempt moss]

I guess I need to look at this from the viewpoint of someone that doesn't have hundred of hours on Googun

[shell sonnet]

True
But can be adjusted

Glad you like it

[unkempt moss]

Youre probably right, in that this would be enough to fix most of that.

[compact tundra]

Yea berserk is an idea I really like cause it would actually be less harmful to lights while berserk but would help against goo or a full room if enemies

[unkempt moss]

If you guys think it would help then for sure.

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-gif-8037700062970091444

[unkempt moss]

So is it going to do the spin thing like in lethal company? Across a perpindicular plane to its base?

The only thing I would say is the dispersion of turret spray would need to be much larger than those in the other game. Which is why I was saying it should be more like the Lead Burster from deep rock. Faster sweeps, bigger angle.

So much of the finals is played in the Z axis that I dont know if such a shallow dispersion of shots would be super effective unless you put it directly in the middle of thr room.

[fair dirge]

what would the thoughts be on a gadget that would rebuild broken parts of a building

[sudden pewter]

Very interesting but I’m not sure it’s possible with engine limitations

Something I’d absolutely love to see if possible though

[lucid cave]

Like a rewind bomb?

[indigo nexus]

It might be awkward, what if there isn’t room for the new terrain? We could make it not work in that case, but then there are cases where it would feel awfully inconsistent

[sudden pewter]

What if a building is loosed from its foundations, but the building itself still exists? Would the gadget clone the building or move it back to its original position?

[unkempt moss]

I think it would have to be like a CNS gadget. Where within the AoE it removes everything and is like a sphere of rebuilt landscape.

[sudden pewter]

The Tower on Kyoto for example which is notoriously easy to topple

[unkempt moss]

Things like a second stories and what not would most likely be the hard part.

And if Goo could crash the server back in the day, then adding more terrain to an area would definitely crash them.

[indigo nexus]

And how assuming it isn’t going to create two overlapping buildings, we’d need to answer how you handle moving part of a building back to where it was, and if its foundations didn’t exist anymore how it could be supported

[unkempt moss]

Maybe go easy on the white name. It was just a suggestion.

[indigo nexus]

CNS-like blocky reconstructions would be kinda cool but maybe not an easy implementation

[unkempt moss]

He was suggesting a gadget in weapons and gadgets. Hes brand new.

[gritty swallow]

so balance changes good or bad?

[indigo nexus]

Good overall I suppose… I think

The RPG change in particular I’m not so sure about

[sudden pewter]

Supposedly the RPG buff in combination with the explosive weakness of goo blobs was intended to make it so RPG can consistently break goo

[indigo nexus]

Yes, just seems… an odd way to buff it to that end

That buff is going to be felt far more by players than by goo blobs

I expect adding an RPG-specific damage modifier would be a little work but surely not prohibitively expensive?

[unkempt moss]

Heavy supremacy continues of course. Embark crushed it with these updates

Best part about them buffing RPG to nerf goo is they act like I dont have plenty more where that came from.

Lights stay losing lmayo

[sudden pewter]

Waiting for the Goo Grenade nerf, it’s only a matter of time until it loses a charge and then all will be right with the world

[unkempt moss]

I hope they do

They should just make googren heavy only

[sudden pewter]

Dunno about that, pairs too well with Mediums pad

And Melee lights rely on it to safely make distance

[unkempt moss]

Ask your heavy nicely. They'll throw it down for you

Say thank you

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-knead-fast-massage-gif-19678816

[plucky spade]

says the gooking

[sudden pewter]

He was playing on the sentiment Heavy is OP methinks

[finite agate]

any gems from the top minds of #👂┇game-feedback yet?

[sudden pewter]

Always

[unkempt moss]

Im the foremost authority on all things goo.

[frigid imp]

whats the best heavy build like specilization gun and gedget?

[regal portal]

I'm just typing so I can create an lfg

[worthy raptor]

we need a dap up emote

[runic axle]

would love 2 person emotes a la tf2

[vague verge]

hall life 3 for real this time

[next raptor]

Meta is probably going to be sa-12 with mesh shield this season. High Elo players may still use the titan but I can’t hit a thing with it. Easiest to use but still effective? Probably m60 mesh with lockbolt

[frigid imp]

the sa feels so weak for me any tips to practice with it

[next raptor]

Not really tbh. Just takes time getting used to. I refused to use it because I didn’t like it for a long time but it’s been meta every season of the games existence so eventually I gave in and practiced it hard lol

[frigid imp]

it feels weak sometimes at close range idk

[next raptor]

Yea it’s just weird but if you can get it right the math be mathin an it has the best burst damage on heavy

[frigid imp]

what abilities should i run with it

[next raptor]

Mesh is top dog this season because dome and mesh blocks winch now. Dome is always a must pick. Either rpg or c4 or both. Then if you only use one of those you can have a wildcard pick and go with like lockbolt or barricade or whatever else you like

[next raptor]

If you don’t like the sa-12 go with the m60 class with mesh and try dome lockbolt and either c4 or rpg. That’s my lazy no brain heavy

[left sage]

Lewis gun feels pretty good now too if you can learn the recoil

[unkempt moss]

GooGun, champ. It does everything you need.

[serene glade]

you could also use a different weapon tbh

[thorn siren]

has anyone else had issues with Demat consuming a charge on use but not actually dematting anything?

[pine kiln]

can anyone here genuinely give me a reason why the akimbo is genuinly a good pick? this gun is miserable to use holy shit. A good headshot multiplier with your aim equivalent to hipfiring is just horrible bruh

[gleaming aspen]

akimbo kt is mad fast some people can consistently headshot

[pine kiln]

yeah but it has to be the least welcoming weapon to use in this game other than dual blades

[copper frost]

does anyone know how i can contact embark ab not receiving my emerald p90 skin?

[left sage]

You really only need a headshot or two to make deagles a very good TTK it's not like you need all heads

[serene glade]

it doesnt look cool anyway dont worry

[unkempt moss]

Looks really cool.

[viral cairn]

titan fire rate change feels terrible

[surreal nest]

I'm pretty much a noob and have like no skill in all fps games but this game has me hooked! And I see myself getting better just now... I currently rock a model 1884, y'all know some ressources you can recommend for tips and improvement?

[unkempt moss]

Saberlike1500 probably the best out there for the finals tips

[vocal flume]

anyone having weapon skin issues, like ill select random but every single match its the same skin

[analog pewter]

They need to remove the delay on demat it's so tedious

Unwritten nerf from last season that should have been fixed by now

[copper frost]

is anyone else unable to buy the season 6 battle pass? i have enough multibucks but it's not letting me

[vocal flume]

you cant buy or access it right now, prob at 9.1 itll be released

[left sage]

Unless it's different from the notes it's like a 2.5% fire rate nerf, barely noticeable

[unkempt moss]

Thats a lot to elite players like myself.

[left sage]

If you say so

[serene glade]

Nah it was a massive change because it was in the new season patch notes. Only noticeable and awesome epic changes can happen in a new season patcharino

Just gotta get in the high level mindset to truly notice and appreciate it I guess

[outer crow]

before GTA 6

[vocal flume]

sniper needs rof increase, slightly since the 2nd shot is kinda off and doesnt shoot when you press the trigger, feelslike some bs from xdefiant

[sudden pewter]

Yeah you weren’t kidding

[obsidian nexus]

DB still problematic.
dagger is coinflip if itll backstab

[vocal flume]

i find its the servers, they really need to fix the servers then everything should balance out, i know practice mode for me has 0 issues, perfect reg, amazing damage but when i play a game its just all gone, i wish i could get host advantage sometiems in the actual matches, id ont even thing these servers are dedicated anymore

[obsidian nexus]

Light class in general overtuned.

[indigo nexus]

Sort of, but there is no fix to be done there

It could be fine against practice range dummies networking wise because their positions are entirely predictable

but the dagger has a bug where it won’t register hits with a certain dash timing that happens even in the practice range

[blissful grove]

is there an update for the em p90 yet? i saw someone in game has it but i don't 💔

[plucky spade]

Players keep out okbuddying the r/okbuddycontestant sub

[fluid dust]

@blissful grove I just had the same thing happen in my game

[blissful grove]

😔 this game never wants me to win

[fluid dust]

No fr 😔

It’s looks so clean too and I hope they push out like an update giving out the rest of the rewards

[blissful grove]

yeah 🙁

[wet musk]

So when are they finally fixing thermal vision xD ?

[outer crow]

It goes from season 1

nothing changed

[plucky spade]

Y'all cannot be real im sorry

[plucky spade]

I cannot believe a person that sunk at least 100 hours in this game would say something like that im sorry

[unkempt moss]

I think a lot of the time when people say light is overtuned, they dont mean that its busted. Generally I think the problem with light is that its an unfun class to fight against, and even worse the people that play it are unfun to play with.

They dont know how to express that light is obnoxious af even if they get clipped and die with a slight breeze.

[placid slate]

Shit falls over to a light breeze

[unkempt moss]

But, you have to remember that not everyone is a super elite gamer that gets all the egirls like you. Im certain the majority of the player base, casuals, finds them annoying.

For me, if the light players weren't so insufferable to have on my team they wouldn't bother me near as much. Because that disdain transfers over to lights not on my team.

And then you come to this server and because lights are the largest player base they seem to be doing the majority of crying about balance when its just a numbers thing.

Per capita lights are doing the same amount of blaming everything but themselves for their failures. But because they supposedly out number both other classes its more apparent.

[shell sonnet]

i wonder
in tdm
if both teams loose the 1st player at the same time due to explosion or something
who gets the tie-breaker?

[wicked grove]

Light is only considerably good in low elo, and after picking up game sense and getting more game experience, you start to realize Lights aren’t much of a problem. If your light teammates are insufferable that’s entirely just the person they are, most of then try to be John Wick.

If you’re struggling you can always lean on current meta weapons/gadgets, would help any casual player automatically

[crimson wedge]

I wish heavy had a dematerializing/nullifying tool, something throwable that demats everything it hits.
as cool as it is to charge and slam or blow stuff up, often times flammable goo isn't good enough to keep a building in one piece when you want to keep the fight indoors

[undone quarry]

or something that can respawn broken pieces(before a building crumbles)

[sonic zephyr]

sounds more like a medium thing but great idea nonetheless

[plucky spade]

That I agree and no im just your average 9-5 wagey, but calling light overtuned is simply incorrect

[outer crow]

fact

[ruby crag]

++

[spring spear]

yea theyre so overtuned in fact that people in ruby have been running hmm and hmh for 2 seasons now

[outer crow]

Because heavies with crazy aim beat lights with crazy aim

[spring spear]

most if not all of M's and H's weapons outdamage light's
if the argument is that you need good aim to track them that is a different issue entirely and is entirely down to an user issue rather than a balance one

[outer crow]

the game ballancing is cringe and is made to please both casual and ranks which is terrible

[spring spear]

no one in either side is pleased both casuals and pros have been asking for winch nerfs for 6 seasons now

[outer crow]

thats why we see this shit

[deep grove]

Breaching drill needs a 2nd charge and a faster activation time. We need a real alternative to Demat that doesnt make you feel like you should've just picked Demat

[spring spear]

they gave it a faster activation time in the s9 preview but didnt go through to the live server

[deep grove]

Thats lame

[outer crow]

meanwhile i see most heavy (big mass) weapon damage slider being on same level as medium/light guns

[spring spear]

a lot of things that shouldve gone through to the live server didnt go through like the bfr damage nerf, we dont know what embark's balance team has been doing the past 3 seasons

[outer crow]

i dont have all game information and see only what is provided

[deep grove]

Rushing updates out the door to capitalize on paypigs wanting new skins

[spring spear]

heavy's damage up close is only matched by the m11 but that doesnt matter because they have 350hp as well as better defense and survivability than any other build so even if they did less damage they'd still have a better time in pure dm scenarios

[outer crow]

devs should add kill/death rate matchmaking and the balance problems will be heavilly reduced

[deep grove]

Thats the brunt of what they've been doing since S6

[outer crow]

tired playing against god aimers of any class

[spring spear]

then people will complain even more than their teams are playing tdm instead of objective and playing tdm will fuck up your matchmaking scores heavily this is a terrible idea SPECIALLY when it comes to gathering balance data

[deep grove]

And also listening to the top 500 players on balance decisions that make the game worse for the bottom 98% of players that dont have insane mechanical skill

[spring spear]

they dont listen to either top players or casual players the top players have been complaining about poke and winch for 6 seasons and embark keeps reinforcing both of those

idk where this "embark caters to pro players" shit came from when people in diamond+ have been asking to nerf poke meta and winch for ages

[deep grove]

I say they listen just enough for Evasive Dash to never get a nerf for seasons even though its the absolute bane of everyone in Plat and below lobbies

[outer crow]

what a nonsence

[deep grove]

Because unpredictable movement on a button click is fair for everyone that doesn't have aim skill and reaction times that would net them a spot on a top 5 Counter Strike team

[outer crow]

the system i suggested is focuses on ballancing players in matchmaking, so high kill rate players would stop playing against low kill rates

[spring spear]

i mean you are saying it yourself, evasive dash is an issue at low level because people arent good at the game
in high level every other light spec is worthless and evasive dash is the only thing keeping lights alive when theyre getting 2shot from across the map with repeater and bfr constantly

[small ocean]

what are some gadgets u guys wanna see in the game

[outer crow]

sometimes i appear at the face of those tryhards and loose 50% hp in a second - this is absurd

[spring spear]

the system you suggested is going to skew matchmaking scores via taking into account k/d rather than playing around the objective which gets skewed even further when you take into consideration tdm
what happens when a support player gets a low k/d but is the entire reason a team is able to win? with your system their matchmaking puts them against worse players every time which just means that player is able to stomp even further

this isnt even taking into account tdm where lights are able to easily squeze a k/d of 2.0+ without much effort despite the fact they get constantly instantly deleted in actual matches due to how squishy they are and how hard guns are hitting

[outer crow]

wut?

[spring spear]

you would be putting low skill level light players in high skill lobbies and high skill level heavies/mediums into low skill level lobbies

[spring spear]

dont worry about it man

[outer crow]

It will put low kill rate players to each other and high kill rates with each other

if low/highs will play together in team (will be exception)

[spring spear]

yes and what happens when a high level support player whos always gonna have a lower k/d gets into a low kill rate player lobby despite the fact they play at diamond+ level?

[outer crow]

playing against 100+ levels when u are 10-30 is absurd in current situations mostly

[spring spear]

or a high level light?

im not saying the matchmaking is good i am saying your system fixes nothing and if anything makes it even worse SPECIALLY for gathering data

[outer crow]

in the finals there can be bad player with 100+ level and good player in 30+ level!

[placid slate]

You tweaking if you think they're balancing around top 500

[spring spear]

cool but this has nothing to do with what we're discussing since the matchmaking system doesnt take into account player level in the first place

[outer crow]

i know that it doesnt account player level - and it shouldnt because it can be bypassed easilly

but if a player for example has 2/1 - he will not play against player which has 1/1

[spring spear]

i dont think i can convey it more clearly than i've had already, sorry, all i can say is that k/d is not representative of skill level in this game specially with the way the builds are right now

[mossy ibex]

The KS-23 is still terrible. As a shotgun, what it needs is better accuracy while moving, but the changes only buffed its stationary accuracy???

[sonic zephyr]

or just pellets. hardly a shotgun when it plays like a sniper

[deep grove]

Believe me we know. I get matched with <lvl 10 all the time as level 71

Being forced to babysit fresh installs on quick cash isnt fun

[outer crow]

KS-23 needs shell ammo instead of slug

[spring spear]

it happens in ranked too i had 2 console lights outright helping other teams more than our own they'd take a cashbox and run it to the other side of the map where a team had just spawned instead of letting me carry it to the cashout

[outer crow]

Cringe Embark think this is fine, that newbies play against tryhards/veterans

[spring spear]

you say that like this game has million players to make queue times fast with fair matchmaking

[plucky spade]

You talk about the poke meta, but wtf is the alternative? Melee meta and suddenly 3/4ths of your arsenal is obsolete, and then... Automatics meta?

And you can't say that the meta can include a broader arsenal because people will want to main the most effective thing

[spring spear]

sustain dive a mix of anything else i'd be fine with poke meta if the countermeta was nearly as viable

poke meta is always the most miserable meta in any pvp shooter because it boils down to camping a high ground and playing as defensive as possible

[outer crow]

meta industry is a cancer for games

[plucky spade]

So you want model and cerb back?

And I mean sa1216 is still in the meta

[spring spear]

was much more fun than the current poke meta so yeah 🤷 people didn't hate model or cerb because the meta was bad they hated them because model had too much range and cerb killed too fast while being very forgiving

[plucky spade]

You mean lights cried the close range weapon did close range things

And then the community decided if the cerb can't oneshot it's automatically dogshit

[spring spear]

lights were the ones affected the most but heavies and mediums were complaining too let's not be disingenous now

[plucky spade]

I honestly didn't mind it

And my cerb sits at lvl 2

[spring spear]

I didnt either like I said it was much more fun than the current meta the weapons just needed to be nerfed a little, not to the degree they were

[plucky spade]

What did they change to the cerb?

[plucky spade]

And oh the model damage is either lights cry or they dont

[plucky spade]

So what was the bad change? If it did 105 it would be good and meta?

[spring spear]

General damage nerfs aswell as buffs to the weapons that directly counter it
the cerb isnt bad in a vacuum its jsut in a bad state because the weapons that directly counter it are so strong atm

The game heavily encourages staying at long range atm so for a weapon without much range like cerberus that's a death sentence
there's an argument to be made that its a viable counter pick but p90, akm and arguably model are better for that

[plucky spade]

Ok let's nerf cb ( you all thought it was balanced half a year ago) ,bfr, revolver(?), famas, p90, xp54, 93r, lh1, and ks-23( the people will whine for thks gun)

Doesn't that bring the poke style down?

[winter jay]

Guys can we triple double barrel damage and range

[plucky spade]

I love it, the 2.5s reload is a good balancing factor

[spring spear]

Revolver isnt really an issue and the reason cb is strong now is due to its buff, famas p90 xp and 93r arent really poke (though you can use 93r as poke i guess)
but yes it would bring it down a lot

[crimson wedge]

full barrel masterkey shotgun when

[fleet imp]

FUCK 5.8.0 🖕 🖕 🖕

[winter jay]

It’s only fair

[outer crow]

strange, db has 13x15 and cerberus has 9x11

[plucky spade]

It's suddenly viable against heavies and we are now twisting our panties come on dude

[outer crow]

390 vs 297

[plucky spade]

The gun is in a weird state ngl

[spring spear]

I mean that is a big deal considering heavy is the strongest build atm and the one that usually enables pushes and picks, all meta team comps atm revolve around heavy

[plucky spade]

Both bfr and cb need a rpm nerf

And oh they are on the same power level, just because one fires 6rpm slower doesn't mean jackshit

But yeah to come back to the first point, if you buff the cerb you are getting some pantaloons ruffled

[spring spear]

cb needs its damage buff reverted and bfr needs further damage and range nerfs alongside the rpm nerf it got this season

[compact tundra]

Honestly I just want a range nerf for the BFR and a meaningful buff to the ks-23, cause if we nerf the BFR too much then D-eagles just take it's place

[plucky spade]

Yes range. And slower rpm

[sonic zephyr]

you can buff the cerb without upping its damage. let the flame damage stack so we can oneclip heavies again

[plucky spade]

Not sure if that's a good idea, may make it better than intended at medium ranges

[sonic zephyr]

and why wouldn't it be?

[plucky spade]

Just increase the max duration of its flames

[plucky spade]

Double barrel

Imagine if db was better in the medium ranges

[winter jay]

I’m imagining 🤯

[outer crow]

it would be x2 times more nightmare

[sonic zephyr]

i mean yeah i have a 3-shot close range shotgun on a character that doesnt have any movement abilities (at least none like light) if i cant kill a heavy after i land all my 3 shots on him im essentially dead no?

[outer crow]

would be cool too see double long barrel for medium

[plucky spade]

Yeah no you're right, but what if you three shot mediums at 15 meters suddenly

[winter jay]

I thought cerb was hit all 3 shots and melee for the kill

[plucky spade]

Against heavy

[sonic zephyr]

or pause between shots to let the flame do damage but thats just stupid

[plucky spade]

Tbh yeah

It's the only gun that can't one mag a heavy

[winter jay]

Yea

I think flame should stack a little bit, but nothing crazy

[plucky spade]

I think it should just last a second or two longer, we don't know if effects are stackable

[sonic zephyr]

theyre not timer just resets

[spring spear]

the flame should stack regardless because the fact that it doesnt is super counterintuitive but it'd probably need some tweaking if it did

[plucky spade]

Nerf the duration so it reliably 3 shots heavies ( 20 fire damage per shot)?

Then it's poopoo against lights

I think that the simplest thing they can do is an effect duration increase

Also it's funny you mention about cerb meta when 2/3rds of a team now run the anti-fire thingamabob ( one quadrillion healing)

[crimson wedge]

Speaking of the healing thing, crazy how its just a better med beam compared to the lovable and balanced heavy ball.
when I thought light would get a healing thing I thought it'd be a dart based thing to match the tracking dart and not an immortality injector.

[plucky spade]

Real, all h+ needed to be is a thing to restart the hp regeneration on demand, not "the heavy stealing is now immortal"

[sonic zephyr]

They could introduce a debuff. whenever you receive damage, you now receive x% less heal for x ammount of seconds

[viscid trail]

Or, buff my beloved healing beam

[shell sonnet]

should honestly be in
or maybe fire dmg can do something similar (flamethrower especially suffers against chuck)

though understandable if the 2nd one isnt as well received because its only on a small selection of items

[slow linden]

Most DOT should probably provide some sort of anti heal debuff

[shell sonnet]

yeah fair

gas and pyro could both use a small buff it seems

[old flame]

tbh heal debuf on gas damage would make so much sense and would make gas a bit more viable 🤔

[viscid trail]

An anti-heal for gas specifically would be great.

[compact tundra]

I kinda want pyro to block healing and gas to do percentage style damage so it damages lights and heavies equally competitive to there health, I think that could make both of them have their own niches

[old flame]

i'd vouch for the other way around
heal debuf for gas and % dmg for fire

[slow linden]

Gas should not do damage but temporarily and exponentially shrink your health bar,like dissolve parts of it,fire should just prevent healing all together

[shell sonnet]

% damage would be interesting

[shell sonnet]

also an interesting call

[viscid trail]

I agree with this simply because they’re almost identical in their current state.
Then having specific niches or roles would be SO MUCH better than both just doing a tiny bit of damage

[old flame]

"shrunk your health bar"....
so just like... dealing damage... but.... with healing debuf....?

[slow linden]

Gas should probably slow too,but I fear that would be too much

[shell sonnet]

you cant heal someone higher than their hp
so it is a heal debuff

[viscid trail]

With the inability to get that health back until it wears off
Effectively reducing your max health

[shell sonnet]

too much

• annoying

[old flame]

just make it deal damage.... 🙄
and prevent healing while person is inside of it

complicating much

[slow linden]

Think of the burning a health chunk system from hunt showdown,but not permanent

[viscid trail]

That’s what I was thinking of too.
It would add depth to it instead of it being essentially a re-skin of pyro grendade

[old flame]

ik what you mean and I'm saying it's just like dealing damage but with insane heal debuf
this game doesn't need to kill healing
it needs to tone it down

[viscid trail]

Make healing beam have unlimited charge 👍

[crimson wedge]

I've lived in the world of the buff beam, as good as it was it just wasn't fair at most times... though I wish you could turn the beam on yourself at times as every other specialization cept beam can be used alone.
it'd be a bit akward to face it to yourself but that might be what balances it

[shell sonnet]

make it replace the primary weapon

[old flame]

healing beam is the most balanced thing in the game

[viscid trail]

I would use that.
I love healing people

[slow linden]

If you are in Gas long enough to "kill healing" you've been in the gas too long,most shooters with healing also have anti heal mechanics

[viscid trail]

It certainly ain’t bad right now, but idk about most balanced

[crimson wedge]

hitting the oktoberfest in the finals would be based

[shell sonnet]

though, jokes aside
im afraid that would make it too limited

in tf2 that works because you have 11 teammates
and you can juggle healing the whole time because someone is always eating bullets
not here

youd have nothing to do half the time
you cant fight at all
and so it would have to be busted healing, making it frustrating

[compact tundra]

I think fire having the anti heal is better cause it'll also buff the flamethrower and Cerb without making them problematic, which is needed

[slow linden]

It's good,but compared to mediums other specs it might as well be broken,it is overpowered simply because nothing competes with it,demat is gutted and turret is neglected garbage

[compact tundra]

Yea I like the idea that gas is a dangerous threat for everyone and takes percentages of health regardless of health pool

[viscid trail]

Anybody else want some sort of impact grenade or am I the weird one here?

[old flame]

it is exactly balanced i think
you can outdamage beam in many cases
healing is slow enough so quick ttk weapons get through it
unlike h+ it is a very balanced healing option

[slow linden]

The humble Pyro nade

70 damage on impact plus dot

[viscid trail]

You know, that’s fair, I just wish it recharged a BIT faster

[viscid trail]

70? It’s like, 10
Right?

[slow linden]

Nah I swear I've killed a light with nothing but a Pyro nade to the face and a quick melee or two

[old flame]

other option is a stupid turret and demat
with demat still having more uses than beam even after nerfs

if we're talking about healing problem it is mostly coming from h+

[viscid trail]

I know for a fact impact is 10
But yeah you could probably pull that off

[old flame]

healing beam is used purely because there's only 1.5 other options

[slow linden]

Demat needed those nerfs,it's fine-ish now but they kinda made it too clunky for it being an escape tool,even so I am glad because most people just use it to roofcamp,kill everyone on cashout,then push with little resistance rather than push and have an actually engaging fight

[viscid trail]

I agree.
Medium needs a healing gadget of sorts.
Just make it so he can’t have both heals at once

[slow linden]

To be fair it does like 70 damage instantly just from burn dot and being engulfed by the fire damage pain boxes

[slow linden]

Syringe

[deep grove]

How do we feel about giving heavy a drum mag smg? Something like this?

[viscid trail]

Melee healing item could be cool

[old flame]

yeah it needed nerfs
not the point
point - not many other options
that's why healing beam is being used
i don't remember people complaining about healing before season 7
then the game added 3 other healing options and it became a problem..

[sonic zephyr]

maybe smoke could slow you a bit. that would be interesting. (nvm i missed the convo)

[deep grove]

I mean its technically a carbine in the image but the idea is there

[slow linden]

Boring,give heavy a PPSH41 with a drum,or give heavy an MP40 with a stick mag

[old flame]

tbh I'd rather see healing beam moved to gadgets and see other specializations instead

[sonic zephyr]

we already have a high capacity smg. (i missed the heavy part mb)

[slow linden]

Too much,turret should be a gadget tho

[deep grove]

And heavy has 2 similar LMGs and medium has 2 similar Assault rifles. Your point being?

[viscid trail]

I’d take that.
Keep it how it is, maybe a rougher cooldown at most.
Then for the love of god give me a new spec 🙏

[slow linden]

Give defib no cool down and no iframes

[old flame]

I'm praying for new specs next season so much 🙏
(I've been praying for 3 seasons now)

[sonic zephyr]

my point being that this sounds boring. just getting a slightly different version of something we already have

[shell sonnet]

like vampirism?

[slow linden]

Bad defibs should be encouraged(it's funny kinda) and severely punished

[old flame]

defib moved to spec would shake the meta crazy tho

[manic veldt]

Defib damage buff when

[deep grove]

People love the BFR and the revolver exists on medium

[old flame]

bro pulled up a real topic rn

[slow linden]

Defib should honestly do 240 damage

[viscid trail]

Like a syringe or injection that healed or gave healing over time and debuff clear.
Use it on yourself or someone else on like, a 25-35 sec cooldown

[deep grove]

I think its fair to say we've kinda started to run out of "unique" weapon types to add

[shell sonnet]

oh, i thought you mean an actual weapon that heals when dealing damage

[manic veldt]

I’ve gotten one kill on defib and it should be a achievement

[sonic zephyr]

does the revolver exist on heavy?

[viscid trail]

No, I mean heroine.
Give me heroine

[deep grove]

?

[shell sonnet]

you have ospuze, thats enough

[sonic zephyr]

you said that the BFR is something we already had with mediums revolver. but heavy cant use it can he?

[viscid trail]

I need to INJECT myself with it
Consumption is not enough.
I must replace my blood with it

[deep grove]

Okay and heavy doesnt have a high capacity SMG so that makes your initial point of comparing it to the P90 already existing moot

[old flame]

how was it in the map chat?

day 1 of asking the developers for defib damage buff
me, @slow linden, @viscid trail are asking for it.
ping me if you want to get added to the list.

[slow linden]

Crossbow

[sonic zephyr]

yeah i missed the part where you said high capacity smg FOR HEAVY. i clarified that afterwards

[deep grove]

Oh ok

[deep grove]

People already dont use bow and arrow i think this might have just as little usage 💀

[slow linden]

Give heavy the XM25 punisher honestly,but not before giving light an M79 thumper

[deep grove]

But it would be cool

[viscid trail]

I just wanna spend my VRS
Maybe add some sort of arc inspired spec or smth

[slow linden]

Mechanically it would just be a single shot rifle

[deep grove]

XM would be a cool gadget for heavy and/or medium honestly

[viscid trail]

They could also (maybe idk about balance) make the decision to add directly offensive specs.
Like a railgun that hits through walls, or some sort of recharging weapon

[sonic zephyr]

we already have charge and slam so that idea doesnt sound too outlandish

[deep grove]

I feel like having the XM as a weapon itself would be a nightmare to balance but I think as a gadget it wouldnt be too hard to balance properly between damage and destruction

[slow linden]

Gadget? I would prefer it be a weapon,you can't have 4 grenades take up one slot and still have a primary that'd be silly

[manic veldt]

Did the model get a nerf? It feels worse

[slow linden]

At that rate the MGL should also be a gadget but again,a little silly

[deep grove]

Im just thinking ahead here because if it was a primary weapon itd be #1 public enemy

[viscid trail]

It got a direct buff only

[slow linden]

It got a buff gng 😭

[manic veldt]

I’m just shit

[deep grove]

People already hate playing against the medium grenade launcher so making an airburst grenade launcher sounds even more terrible

[viscid trail]

Models a weird gun tbf
Fun asl tho

[slow linden]

Mediums grenade launcher is shit those people are having a skill issue

[obsidian nexus]

the longer i play this game, the more i see the class is DESIGNED to be unfun to go against. and also insufferable to have on ur team.

[manic veldt]

The retro computer type skins is fire

[deep grove]

My biggest problem with light is how many get out of jail free cards it can equip at once

[viscid trail]

YEEEEES

[deep grove]

Any competent light you cannot punish bad positioning unless they are quite literally backed into a corner

[viscid trail]

And the short barrel ones
Spinning reload is amazing

[slow linden]

Damage stages kinda put any potential explosive based weapon in F tier by default,shit be doing 80 Damage (if it feels like it) on impact with an avoidable projectile but the radius does 10 to 30 Damage 💔

[obsidian nexus]

yep, also having good destruction capability. solo stall capability, for some reason a HEALING capability?!!??!?!!??!!??!!?!?

[deep grove]

What should be a free kill on a light is almost never because they can just cloak bomb, dash away or grapple away

[manic veldt]

Eh, I like my chunky skins

[obsidian nexus]

yep

[manic veldt]

The reload is awesome though

[deep grove]

And it makes 1v1's annoying because they can just instantly reposition while youre stuck out in the open as medium or heavy

[obsidian nexus]

also the instant health regen.

[manic veldt]

Medium needs a movement specialization, nothing big but better than zip or jumppad

[slow linden]

I hate that all anyone has to do to beat the larger class is just run away and roof camp

[weak kernel]

because his entire shtick is mauling anyone he catches up close??

[slow linden]

Not specifically heavy,medium too

[deep grove]

Cloak bomb should 100% be a medium gadget

[compact tundra]

No

[slow linden]

All classes should move at the same speed tbh,probably around mediums speed

[deep grove]

For the SUPPORT class

[compact tundra]

Light is also a support class

[slow linden]

No give it to heavy,the other support class

[viscid trail]

Light can do everything

[manic veldt]

Light mesh shield with 10k health type statement

[weak kernel]

poor pitiful heavy and his best spec in the game and his meta-defining gadgets and his favorable combat matchup against everyone else in the engagement ranges that actually matter and his spread of consistently strong weapons

[manic veldt]

Just buff flamethrower and debuff fcar

[slow linden]

Hard to maul when without winch he's so slow that anyone with half a brain cell can just walk away,and to be fair winch is boring and needs to be removed,stop tweaking it embark just kill it so weapons dependent on it can be buffed please for the love of god embark

[deep grove]

Okay you tell me why its a good idea that Light gets cloak bomb when they already have a cloaking spec

[slow linden]

Winch is a cowards tool

[deep grove]

Basically allowing light to use 2 specializations at once with cloak bomb

[viscid trail]

EXACTLY
Just run TP nade, Cloak bomb, and dash and you basically have three

[weak kernel]

if they kill winch then yeah obviously they should buff other aspects about him to compensate considering the opposite has been happening for a little bit

[slow linden]

Fcar is fine,what would one even give flamethrower in the first place,you cannot buff flamethrower without making it just annoying and that's coming from a flamethrower main,it needs to be reworked entirely if anything,but definitely not buffed

[weak kernel]

mostly just close quarters weapons

[manic veldt]

I know haha, I was joking, flamethrower needs a rework it’s horrible

[slow linden]

Winch is a parasitic tumor that is slowly hollowing out heavies entire arsenal and making every build dependent on it

[viscid trail]

Give me sticky flames from DRG

[slow linden]

It had them in beta

[viscid trail]

Really? I do NOT remember that 😭

[slow linden]

They removed them for performance reasons I think

[deep grove]

UE5 particle effect rendering

[slow linden]

Personally I think they should reduce the cone to only a quarter it's original radius,up the range by 50% and make flames stick wherever it lands and damage structures over long periods of time so if either party tries to WM1 they just die,and if the user is careless they will be trapped under burning rubble if they are in a wood building

[compact tundra]

They can't tank or take head to head fights well, everyone has their strength and weaknesses

[slow linden]

The games much more optimized now,I'm sure it would probably be fine now

[viscid trail]

I mean they can fill “just about” any role, on top of feeling unsatisfactory to fight

[deep grove]

For sure. And Embark doesnt enable all those useless performance hogging features like Nanite

[shell sonnet]

or make the flames only linger for a second
w+m1 doesnt go as far
but if you hit both the eney and the floor next to where theyre going, it deals more damage

[viscid trail]

They’re very versatile and at least “good” at tons of shit

[compact tundra]

Not really, they're good at doing good damage from angles, flanking, getting revives, and supporting their team through gadgets like gateway, glitchnade, H+, ECT...

But you can't replace your heavy or medium with light, they're too squishy and bad at team fights

[slow linden]

The only satisfaction I get from killing a light is closer to relief like "thank fuck the ankle biting parasite is dead" I rarely think "oh good fight man" unless the light is using shotguns,the v9s,or melee

[compact tundra]

So you love fighting me 😊

[slow linden]

Yes probably if you like shotguns or melee on light

[viscid trail]

Here, I’ll rephrase.
I don’t like light because there’s 6-10 of them almost every game I play 😭
Maybe I’m just unlucky

[slow linden]

Honestly same,I never see an all class trio it's usually all I see is double light medium all running SMGS or triple medium all running p90 with heal beam and defib chaining

[compact tundra]

I'm a grapple sword main but I use double barrel, bow, and M11 sometimes

[slow linden]

M11 is the most balanced gun in the game I just find it personally annoying if not a bit boring

[compact tundra]

Yea that's fair, lights really popular in casual and even ranked until diamond because they're fun, fast, and hit hard

[viscid trail]

And I’m a mediocre casual medium player 😭

[compact tundra]

I use it cause I'm weirdly good with it

[compact tundra]

Oof, yea lights the bane of your existence then

[slow linden]

Everyone is weirdly good with it that's why it's boring it has a atom high skill ceiling

It's just point,click,piss

[viscid trail]

It’s super simple, and incredibly consistent
That’s about the extent of the weapon

[slow linden]

To be fair this is every smg in the game

[slow linden]

Yeah

[compact tundra]

Fair, ARN to me is the hardest light automatic to use which is why I have fun when I do run it, it's a weird weapon with fun quirks

[viscid trail]

It’s not even very unbalanced, it’s just lame

[slow linden]

Hardest light automatic? Sure,but ars and smgs aren't particularly hard to use by design

[muted condor]

What are we talking about? I need to drop some hate

[compact tundra]

Idk having an automatic on light that doesn't completely shred and requires you to pick your fights intelligently is fun to me

[viscid trail]

Light guns

[slow linden]

Yeah,like I said most balanced gun in the game

[muted condor]

Double barrel is mid af and so are the people that use it

[slow linden]

Pretty much every weapon on light that isn't shotguns,melee or unused because of it being bad

[viscid trail]

Tbag em all

[slow linden]

Essentially this

[slow linden]

It's more fun and engaging to fight and use than boring safe bullet hoses

[compact tundra]

What I'm hearing is my sword autism makes me a tolerable light and I'm glad, tho I feel like people still hate fighting me

[hybrid fossil]

the finals is my favorite game buuut the balancing is horrible, is there any way we can tell embark how much sword, m11, dash need a nerf and how much guns like the model needs a buff...

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-get-coined-nama-tama-gif-26831859

My honest reaction to bd players

[slow linden]

They do,and they're dogshit,a gun will always be a better option than a sword

[oblique crypt]

Grapple Sword 🔥

[compact tundra]

Bro sword and M11 do not need a nerf, and dash is questionable at best, these are just weapons that require some skill to counter and a gadget with no real competition

[compact tundra]

Grapple sword is so fucking fun, I love moving at mach 3

[oblique crypt]

Grapple anything is fun

[hybrid fossil]

sword I think shouldnt be attack multiple targets with one regular attack, I have had multiple team wipes because a lil light zips into our team and just swings twice and deletes us... It's not fun

[slow linden]

I never said I rarely win against light,I win probably 70% of my 1v1s against light,just some things are less enjoyable to fight and use,usually the more bored I am using something the more I hate seeing it in an enemies hand

[oblique crypt]

What do you think of the Sniper?

[slow linden]

There is nothing I hate seeing more than a shak winch player

[deep grove]

Heavy main but seemingly always in defense of lights...

[sudden pewter]

Not a Heavy main dunno where you got that

[deep grove]

His role

[sudden pewter]

That creature is a sword light

[hybrid fossil]

I'm in a lobby where it's all lights and I'm a heavy right now, that wouldn't happen if it not overpowered, light desperately needs a nerf

[oblique crypt]

One can be both

[slow linden]

It's bad,and needs buffs,but its not particularly fun and engaging to fight,I typically just goo up the windows or take the long way around when someone is crane camping with a sniper

[muted condor]

Light is the most under powered class currently

Are you in QC?

[sudden pewter]

No, every player falls into a neat little group I can stigmatize, there’s no overlap

[hybrid fossil]

to be fair, you make a good point

[placid slate]

Sniper ass, ttk is buns, got nerfed for fucking powershift

[muted condor]

QC is the only place I see lights in and that’s just because it’s a fun fast class that attracts QC players more than the other ones

[slow linden]

All melee hate is so forced just aim better

[placid slate]

Sword got mutilated

[slow linden]

What it got is a word that I cannot say here

[placid slate]

Lobotomised?

[hybrid fossil]

I'll try running world tour more to help, but I still believe a nerf would help as quick cash feels pretty unbalanced as of now, and I prefer it over WT

[oblique crypt]

I never played sword before the change but I find it's pretty good.

[slow linden]

Sure

[placid slate]

Twin I don't think shit should be balanced around qc

Or the opinions of qc players

[shell sonnet]

and who matters?

[placid slate]

Ranked mainly wt a bit. Those are where balance primarily matters

[hybrid fossil]

I get it, but maybe some quick cash focused nerfs or something to improve that experience, world tour can stay as it is if people think it's all good

[shell sonnet]

example uber saw
that went terrible

[slow linden]

The only thing the game should be balanced around is tournament,not powershift,not head to head,not terminal attack,maybe blast off I wish the cl40 shot at that velocity and straight of an arc but again no

[shell sonnet]

quick cash players deserve to have fun as much as anybody else

[slow linden]

Ranked and world tour are the same "gamemode",but I'm going to be honest as the primary gamemode the game should be more balanced around world tour than ranked

[sudden pewter]

It is and anyone that disagrees is a stinky light coper

[hybrid fossil]

I see how quick cash shouldn't be the main thing to balance the game around, but the fact it's so unbalanced shouldn't be ignored, focused nerfs in quick cash only maybe to make that experience more better should help

[sudden pewter]

Sea Urchin my sweet little chungus you were right about the dust from destruction, hella thick and I don’t think it’s intentional

[hybrid fossil]

I've played quick cash since season one and I haven't seen it this bad ever

[shell sonnet]

not sure who it was that i tried to explain this to, may have been you

[slow linden]

Imma be honest quick cash players are way more toxic and sweaty than world tour and ranked players and always have been

[hybrid fossil]

I main medium soo maybe I'll try playing world tour more... I mostly like quick cash since it's fast and I often have to leave games but I'll give it more of a try 🥰

[slow linden]

The main issue with the game rn is probably the neglect of spear and MGL and to a lesser degree cl40,at least the cl40 is a funtional piece of shit rather than a useless piece of shit

Damage stages kinda killed Explosives,like why have the radius in the first place if 90% of it tickles,frag grenades are just spicy rocks,and grenade launchers just shoot spicy rocks that tickle if they are not surgically implanted into your chest cavity,also spear just kinda sucks,from a fundamental stance it's ass,it also has a lot of weird hit reg bugs with literally everything,I don't know how they broke spear so badly but they should really stop neglecting it

[eager wasp]

and dagger!

[sonic zephyr]

and just about half of the sandbox

[slow linden]

Dagger is abused not neglected,they beat that thing,took it outside and shot it in the back of the head with a 4 gauge

And yeah literally every melee nerf was a mistake I'm going to be honest

[slow linden]

True,essentially if it's not ar,smg or poke it kinda just gets left behind

Also despite poke being meta for the last two seasons sniper is still shit even in poke meta because it's just bad

[muted condor]

They should give grenades an explosives some kind of effect. The launchers, explosive mine, and grenade are falling behind because they don’t have any nuance to them

[slow linden]

Concussion? Flinch? Crippling?

[sonic zephyr]

i mean they kind of have with their higher structure damage which kind of helps against enemy gadgets but its nowhere enough

[slow linden]

You can't really give Explosives an additional effect without making them annoying and unbalanced just remove damage stages and make the whole boom do the whole boom,and they will still annoy(people who are mad when an area denial weapon actually denies areas),but now they're useful

[shell sonnet]

stupid idea
what if there was an item, that connected to your next used gadget, and keeps it inactive, until you manually make it boot up

remote gravity cube
distraction breach drill

yes, probably underpowered
more about the stupid shinanigens you can get up to

[sonic zephyr]

maybe as an option on the gadget. not worth a gadget slot

[slow linden]

Kinda like it but why not just give medium a stasis spec that basically does that,you could freeze any gadget or prop or rubble in the game into a given state and any actions to alter the state of said gadget prop or rubble would only happen when the stasis ended naturally over a long period of time or when the user unfroze the object,imagine doing this to someone else's frags and the enemy dying to their own frags lol

Also it would turn off gravity cube,and gravity for whatever object was in stasis

[shell sonnet]

gl gonna get goofed

[slender bear]

You could freeze someone's healing emitter or turret, and they'd have to wait for it to end to redeploy

[slow linden]

You would have a set amount of things you can stasis,kinda like how goo gun has a set amount of goo it can place before dissolving,if you fill the room with frozen grenades you're going to end up nuking yourself

[slow linden]

You could,but I'm sure they can just manually pick it up too,but that's risky

[shell sonnet]

but until that goes away, you get a free pass to shoot someone uncontested
and you just like move slightly out of the way to avoid being hit

remember, if they dont direct hit you, its likely they land behind you for 0 dmg

[outer crow]

so disgusting to play against high levels, tryhards with crazy aim 🤢 🤮

[slow linden]

Additionally if they kill you all your stasis ends and your teammates get nuked

[slow linden]

20 something Explosives no matter how small and inconsistent going off in a small room is not something I personally want to be anywhere near unless it is my intention that it happens to that room

[sudden pewter]

Level is not indicative of skill, just time in the game. I’ve personally matched with and against some very subpar players with +100 lvl on their player card.

[slow linden]

You're shit ig???

[muted condor]

It would be hard to balance but I think you could give some explosives a shrapnel effect that counters healing for a short time

[spring spear]

yeah if you have good aim then youre a disgusting tryhard

[sudden pewter]

If you kill me you’re a try hard

[spring spear]

if you kill me youre a cheater and youve been reported

[muted condor]

When I do good in a match I’m just a decent player, when someone beats me they are a no life try hard with no friends

[sudden pewter]

The weapon you’re using is OP and it’s the only reason I died

[slow linden]

Just give the shrapnel stacking bleed not antiheal

[spring spear]

those stupid meta slaves and their oppressive sword and pyro nade meta

[slow linden]

Fire and gas should have antiheal,but not explosive

[muted condor]

That’s just another fire/gas

[slow linden]

Fire and gas doesn't work in stacks,and gas should honestly not do damage but give you a health debuff that shrinks your health the longer you're in it until it sets your health to 0 insta kills you fire should just antiheal

[sudden pewter]

I shouldn’t have died charging the flamethrower heavy in his dome with my Shak

[slow linden]

Dot is an effective way to make aoe effective,it'd honestly be fine

[shell sonnet]

never get to stack that many
unless you want it to last half a minute

[slow linden]

Was thinking 45 seconds,the timer starting for all current and future objects that you stasis on the first one,and all simultaneously ending when stasis ends or the user dies

[slow linden]

Shak losing to flamethrower is huge user error

[lofty wedge]

Im conflicted on what weapon to use because im spoiled for choice

[unkempt moss]

What class

[lofty wedge]

Heavy

[slow linden]

Ks23 just got buffed,minigun is hard but rewarding to use

[lofty wedge]

What spec would I use with ks?

[unkempt moss]

Answer is always GooGun

[muted condor]

Mini gun

https://tenor.com/view/thefinals-minigun-season-6-the-finals-coined-gif-9581155447877553437

[slow linden]

Goo gun if you want to camp or have movement and goo lock combo(also the hardest spec in the game to master),charge and slam for old reliable,I see a decent amount of mesh with ks23 right now for some reason

Do not use winch,it's a cowards tool,it is poison for the soul

[lofty wedge]

I hate winch tbh

[muted condor]

Mini gun, C&S, rpg/c4, dome, lockbolt

[slow linden]

Minigun,goo gun or cns,heal orb,dome and motion sensors or Pyro mines is usually my go to for minigun

[eager wasp]

rip pyro mines

[slow linden]

People just couldn't be bothered to look at the floor or listen for the loud beeps

[eager wasp]

that and their excuse of it being much better than explosive was dumb, so like, maybe BUFF EXPLOSIVE MINES????? idkk like making something not viable just bc something else isn't viable is kind of stupid

[lofty wedge]

Theyre too busy watching second screen!

[slow linden]

And so now I will use motion sensors and they will have an infinitely worse time

[lofty wedge]

I hate seeing the big red DETECTED, and hearing the sonar or ping noise

[slow linden]

God forbid explosive mine do either 140 or 240 damage

[outer crow]

https://tenor.com/view/team-fortress-2-mockery-squat-tf2-тим-фортресс-2-gif-7676267131243964406

[slow linden]

I like using them with minigun

[slow linden]

I hate sonar grenades I love motion sensors

Sonar grenade:free instant game changing Intel that goes through walls, motion sensor:funny lil guy you put on ceilings above doorways that tells you where people are that it can ACTUALLY SEE

[fallen karma]

Wich class I should select for my break point loadout? Medium or heavy?

[slow linden]

Heavy,expect to be shot by at least 4 people at a given time,you might as well play the class that doesn't get instantly eviscerated,and instead be eviscerated in the immediate next instant

Either that or cloak double barrel light or dagger and just try to pick people off

[fallen karma]

Ok, thank you!

[unkempt moss]

True heavy mains know how to use every weapon, spec, and gadget. Dont let popular opinion sway you from one of the funnest specs in the game.

[slow linden]

The only thing I enjoy about it is that it can move cashout,personally I wish we got a rope tool instead of winch

[unkempt moss]

At risk of summoning the no mobility clowns, they need to let me use it to swing.

[wispy lichen]

Winch let's me pull the box out in the open. Leaving that out there with 16 people all collectively killing anything that dares touch it

[slow linden]

A rope tool would allow you to swing from it

[unkempt moss]

Yeah, but I like pulling things as well. Grabbing trophies and stuff is helpful.

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/ltg-gif-24337002

[harsh thistle]

The buff to the V9S makes it feel super good.

[slow linden]

Think gmod rope tool,first click tethers you to an object,player or surface,second click can tether two things outside yourself together

[unkempt moss]

And regardless of what the bootyblasted small classes say, ripping someone to you and obliteratinh them is fun.

[slow linden]

As a heavy main I hate doing it and I hate being on the receiving end,there's really no counterplay for it

[unkempt moss]

GooGun counters it bud.

[muted condor]

C&S > winch

Real heavies know eating concrete is more fun than the crutch that is winch

[slow linden]

I main goo gun,it only counters it in a 1v1,what about the entire team I just got pulled into?

[unkempt moss]

So you dont know about PowaGoosa is what youre telling me.

Thats fine. I was a rookie once too

[slow linden]

The what

[unkempt moss]

If youre really Archdeacon then work on tech. The Goo always has an answer. Open your eyes, my son.

Us GooGunners can maintain invincibility for a short period of time. The good protects us.

[slow linden]

The only answer when I'm pulled into a team is to run,which has a 50% success rate with goo suppression

[unkempt moss]

Your eyes. Why do you shut them so tightly?

[slow linden]

Cocooning is most effective in a corner

[unkempt moss]

Are they sewn shut, my son?

[muted condor]

Goo munchers when I just walk through their one and only move with C&S

[slow linden]

As for said cocooing I spend just as much time burning goo as I do placing it so again bad idea

[slow linden]

You just set off the c4 and explosive mine I placed before entering the room,you have become prey

[unkempt moss]

Another part of your job is to make sure the other specs never learn how easy it is to counter them. The C&S user must never know they are just as powerless.

[slow linden]

Goo gun is the best 1v1 spec

[slow linden]

The humble gravity cube

[muted condor]

Who tf uses doors

[slow linden]

I do,a heavy that prefers Pyro nade to rpg

[muted condor]

Bah

[slow linden]

And again,gravity cube

[slow linden]

They cannot do anything about it,they can either join us or perish

[unkempt moss]

Practice your simultaneous goolocks.

[muted condor]

Goo locking is crazy over rated and a crutch

Seems like it does something but all it does is drag at 1v1s longer but end the same way they would have without it

The illusion of effectiveness

[placid slate]

I mean it lets you safely close the gap so it does affect the outcome

[slow linden]

Winch is more of a crutch,and goo locking ups flamethrower's dps

[unkempt moss]

Drywall, do you see how they are blind? We must be grateful that the heathens do not place their unwashed hands on the GooGun.

[slow linden]

They will be cleansed in the end

[placid slate]

Fuck off with that holier than thou shit, goo locking is cancer

[muted condor]

If I had a dime for every spec that lest you close distance I would have 6 dimes

[slow linden]

Salvation in sacrifice is still Salvation

[slow linden]

Goo locking is based,you are a spear main so you are biased

[placid slate]

You use goo gun, you are biased

[muted condor]

Bunch of goo munchers fr

[slow linden]

It fucks specifically YOU and only because of a bug

[unkempt moss]

Do you see how they let their anger blind them? They rage and rage against the Goo. But the Goo is available to all who welcome it. They must only accept its grace.

[slow linden]

I use everything,I can't be any less biased

[muted condor]

Goo gun some how went from being the most underrated spec to be the most over rated over the course of one season

[placid slate]

Moreso overunderrated

[unkempt moss]

Even now, in my hands it is underrated. Even i have not seen the deepest depths of the Goo.

We are all on our Goo Journey.

[slow linden]

Nah it's just really good at a few small niches,anything being recognized as over or underrated immediately creates a paradox that makes said claims irrelevant

[unkempt moss]

The Goo, it tears their spirit asunder! They have been broken by the Goo. It has not only locked their body, but their minds and spirit.

[slow linden]

That said goo gun is the only spec with limitless potential

[gleaming aspen]

i lowkey just anti grav and gloo it to the ceiling

[unkempt moss]

They rage because Goo breaks them down before they are built back up if they choose.

[slow linden]

There is no skill ceiling for the goo gun,something so complex cannot be perfected,not even by a God

[unkempt moss]

The Goo, it brings life and death.

Go forth and Goo, brothers.

[slow linden]

Goo is creation,goo is destruction,goo is cleansing flames

Goo is a home,goo is a cage,it is a safety and a danger

[gleaming aspen]

what kind of cult is forming here

[slow linden]

It has always been

[gleaming aspen]

how do yall feel about fireball and cerberus

[unkempt moss]

Give Cerb to heavy.

Cerb and Riot to heavy please. Thank you.

I think general consensus is that pyrogren is underpowered. I like it because you can direct hit people and deny cash outs a little.

Also let's you Gooferno without having to use flamethrower.

[slow linden]

Riot belongs on medium,give heavy a giant riot shield with a shield bash and a slam attack

No baton,just big shield

Cerb honestly feels like a weapon that would be more at home on heavy

[unkempt moss]

Id rather have it than the SA.

[slow linden]

The sa is nothing without winch,it is a parisitized husk of a weapon but I really hope they remove winch and restore it

My biggest problem with winch is not that it's cheap but that it's existence causes nerfs and limitations to things that aren't itself

It limits heavy,it is the chains of a neglected slave

[unkempt moss]

Thats fair.

[muted condor]

The cerb reload animation in the bp is making my play with it for that reason alone

[unkempt moss]

Prioritizing heavy over a single spec is based.

[compact tundra]

SA has been meta longer than winch has been in the game, and mesh also pairs really well with it, since you can shield to skip the barrel rotation

[unkempt moss]

Is that why the hammer got gutted?

[compact tundra]

Yea they gutted hammer cause of the winch combos

[slow linden]

Sa was an entirely different weapon before winch was added,shit used to do like double its current damage and took years to reload and tube cycle

[muted condor]

“Gutted hammer”
Looks inside
minor change to stop a one shot

[gleaming aspen]

lmao i want it to

[compact tundra]

Fair but it's still really good with mesh, the shield pairs really well with its bursty style. Not that I want it nerfed, I think it's a perfectly fine weapon even with winch in the game

[unkempt moss]

Compared to its previous damage its gutted. GooHammer still crushes people but I always wondered why they decreased the damage so much.

[slow linden]

Yeah,without winch that would be unneeded

[muted condor]

They should gut that goofy weapon more

[zinc obsidian]

PLEASE!
you added rat, parrot, scorpion, panda, cat, and doggo as pet PLEASE ADD A CUTE BUNNY!

[unkempt moss]

A hammer that's just a gooball on a stick would be truly be elite

[broken rapids]

skills

[slow linden]

I prefer when it was an all atomizing blunderbuss,it was rebalanced around winch rather than being changed purely because it was too good

[slow linden]

They should gut you specifically,no damage for you,instead you heal the enemy

[unkempt moss]

The beta SA was so insane. It felt like a power weapon. Need that back

[slow linden]

It probably would have still been changed eventually,but it would have gotten different changes

It would have been untainted by winch

[broken rapids]

it takes so long to level up

[slow linden]

Everything tainted by winch must return to its original state upon winch's removal

Everything limited and neglected because of winch must be buffed

[broken rapids]

i agree

[unkempt moss]

Swap grapple with winch and we'll call it even. Light can have the all powerful tool, heavy can have the fun tool.

[slow linden]

Deal

Winch dagger or DB sounds funny

And it's automatically balanced because it's on light

[broken rapids]

na ]

[unkempt moss]

Id love to see some bum ass light winch me in.

[lilac zephyr]

huh

[unkempt moss]

North America ]

[broken rapids]

how do i rank up fast

[unkempt moss]

In game or discord?

[lilac zephyr]

dishcord

[slow linden]

In all seriousness winch just needs to go

[unkempt moss]

Just go spam messages in the finals chat

[slow linden]

This is coming from someone who used to defend it

[broken rapids]

well dam n

[slow linden]

Winch will go the way of recon senses

For the good of everything it must happen

[muted condor]

They should buff winch’s utility nerf the fuck out of its effect on players

[unkempt moss]

Thats fine. The idea if slowly removing every excuse lights have is fine wirh me.

[slow linden]

This would be acceptable but I also feel it would give embark an excuse to continue to limit heavys weapons

[gleaming aspen]

their gonna nerf winch into nullifier if they give it on light saying its too op and can 1 shot combo people

[unkempt moss]

They dont need an excuse outside of the chorus of sobbing coming from lights every season.

[slow linden]

You're probably correct,but winch doesn't belong on any class at least in its current state

It is a parasite so strong it would probably instantly kill any lesser class it were put on

The nerfs would be horrendous

[unkempt moss]

Light gets the dislocated shoulder debuff from trying to winch heavy.

[gleaming aspen]

nullifier treatment???

[slow linden]

It is heavys fate it seems to bear the burden of winch until it is removed

[gleaming aspen]

honestly judt throwing a wind up woulf go a long way 😭

[unkempt moss]

Return it's original range, ramp up range from 5m by adding wind up

Where is rs. I have a turret idea

[eager wasp]

hell yeah, winch the enemy to me as a dagger player so that i can have a quick and swift death as i pull them infront of me

[slow linden]

It'd probably pair better with sword but I see combo potential

[manic veldt]

Best model skin?

[slow linden]

Eclipse shade or dough rangler

They genuinely make the weapon feel so much better

Hell might even make the weapon better but that's definitely placebo

[cunning kettle]

cb-01 repeater

[slow linden]

No

[manic veldt]

?

[manic veldt]

Eclipse shade is fire

Wish the diskette bezel was a short one like it

[slow linden]

Similar dps and handling

[compact tundra]

Omg you could time the winch with the lunge combo for free insta kills on lights, evil shit

[slow linden]

Yea

[signal agate]

yoo

[icy egret]

Hm. I have to decide what utility skills to take

I'm running Mesh Shield and Minigun for non-those, and I'm stuck between the RPG-7, Healing Emitter, Dome Shield and Barricade

the new Barricade is way better. I was even considering other gadgets before

[surreal yew]

Lockbolt nerf.

winch nerf.

Why can you be stuck in place in a game that requires mobility and adaptability?

[topaz steeple]

I play light, and dislike lockbolt and winch, but nerfing it would also restrict the heavy's playstyle, right?

[sudden pewter]

Lockbolt has counterplay

Winch does (now) but requires the presence of another Heavy as Light nor Medium have access to shields

[steel coral]

i just came back after about a year of not playing. Wtf did they do to the nullifier xD

[sudden pewter]

The Stun Gun was reworked in S6 into the Nullifier.

[steel coral]

Whyyy they ruin something good

[sudden pewter]

Because it was unbalanced, and unfun to play against.

[steel coral]

Dual blades??

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[steel coral]

Nowhere near as bad as the blades\

[fleet imp]

Null is a super cool concept and stun was horrid to fight

[steel coral]

How do i create VC/ Unlock it?

[sudden pewter]

35 messages.

Argue with someone in #💥┇spawn-point or #⚡┇the-finals-chat

[stone sparrow]

PLEASE DELETE THE WINCH

[rough beacon]

Y?

[placid slate]

Still unbalanced

Now your practically throwing in 90% of the times you use it

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/zazu-gif-8111977976091427580

[steel coral]

What kit should I be running on my light build?

[compact tundra]

Grapple, sword, gateway, breach charge, vanish bomb. Trust it's meta

[sudden pewter]

Dagger, and whenever you die with it be sure to go into #👂┇game-feedback and threaten to uninstall if it isn’t buffed immediately

[indigo nexus]

Probably dash-LH1-gateway-H+ infuser-something else

I’m not yet sure what the something else should be since S9 dropped

but I don’t think the meta is too strong, for most people it’s ignorable

[sudden pewter]

Do you feel the prevalence of gateway will at all be affected by its recent nerf? Perhaps Zipline will see more prevalence with Medium taking the horizontal traversal utility role back?

[indigo nexus]

Not much honestly. It’s a bit slower for box escorting, but its more common use is barely affected, 50m still gives a ton of wiggle room

[sudden pewter]

Wasn’t it 65m from 90m?

[indigo nexus]

50m from 70m I thought

[sudden pewter]

You’re correct, notes are in front of me

Zipline is even directly referenced

To note, very interesting rationale for the glitch nerf, I hope soon we see similar reasoning for Goo Grenades

[indigo nexus]

I find the current state of goo enjoyable, even if it may be overrepresented

[unkempt moss]

I worry about nerfing goo too much as its one of the most unique things about the finals. There's nothing like it and it versatility available in any other shooter.

[sudden pewter]

The goo itself is fine, I’m not a fan of outplaying a goo grenade (finding a way around it or destroying it at the cost of utilities) just have another thrown at my face

It’s insanely rewarding given how disposable they are

Decrease the CD, but I’d like to see it as a single use gadget

[unkempt moss]

I think more goo gadgets could be a decent play but im not sure how to implement it outside of a mine without having it be to focused of a use. Which kind of goes against the idea of goo

And I'm completely fine with goo being a single use item.

[sudden pewter]

Goo mine seems very stupid, why hold an enemy in place when any other mine would just kill them? The ultimate form of CC is death

[unkempt moss]

Alright.

[wild zenith]

i wish there was a visual indicator when you are getting close to breaking the gate

like they turn red and start glitching out

[sudden pewter]

Breaking the Gate?

The Gadget Icon will start flashing when you near its maximum range, if that helps?

[wild zenith]

does it?

[sudden pewter]

I haven’t touched Gateway since last season, but keep an eye on the Icon as you gain distance

[wild zenith]

k

[cunning slate]

WE need an impact nade on medium

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-false-nuke-walter-white-false-breaking-bad-false-breaking-bad-false-nuke-gif-11851145952566757188

[unkempt moss]

Lets get an impact nade for heavy.

Or a mini nuke we can use once per round.

[wild zenith]

isnt that.... rpg??

[unkempt moss]

Actually, a self destruct like predator.

You can have RPG on whatever class you play.

I'd rather have something with a throw arc meant for doing damage.

The frag is fine but I like the impact part of the pyro.

[wild zenith]

110 is very real damage

[unkempt moss]

Im looking for a cool 150

I have my reasons.

[steel coral]

you feel like LH-1 out plays mp5? or is it more situational

[wild zenith]

that would completely outclass frag

no reason to take frag when another gadget is instant and deals more damage

[unkempt moss]

There's plenty of things in this game that are just better versions of other things on the same class. Not worried about it.

[uneven niche]

It's only better at long range, mid range it's inconsistent

[sudden pewter]

Can you elaborate? Provide some examples?

[ruby haven]

I run XP54, H+ Infuser, Vanishing Bomb, and Breach Charge. What should I change (i am bad with gateway)

[unkempt moss]

Things like the FCAR and AK for example. For a long time they've traded off with each on which AR to use until the FAMAS just finally took over as the one to use. Now I think its kind of up in the air.

They just nerfed the pyromine for doing too much of what the explosive mine does. The M60 and Lewis going back and forth. I saw someone saying the Model and Repeater earlier which I dont necessarily agree with but I can kind of see it from a pov. The ARN has taken over the XPs role after the range and myriad nerfs to XP. Those are few off the top of my head. But im sure you'll tell me why im wrong about all of them.

[serene glade]

Yeah you're wrong and lame, moving on

[unkempt moss]

Damn. I hate when that happens.

[steel coral]

Thats what im worried about. What about the double barrel?

[clear slate]

We need another pistol for medium, they only have one while heavy and light have two (.50 akimbo, BFR titan, the one light pistol and the better light pistol) just saying, if Embark has added a second pistol for heavy and light they might add one for medium next.

[indigo nexus]

XP-54, definitely. Though V9S and ARN seem to be more meta now

[indigo nexus]

If you care about meta play you’d avoid it but it works alright generally

[timber wedge]

The VS9 is crazy, then u can go ARN an M-11 based of maps or situations

[unkempt moss]

Oh, they just nerfed gateway stating that it was cannibalizing zipline or something. Does that work?

[serene glade]

Gateway doesn't use a rope lmfao. What a fucking idiot

[unkempt moss]

☠️

[steel coral]

Light sword is just mad unfair

[spring spear]

hes right, embark's reasoning for nerfing gateway was that they didnt want it to overshadow zip or pad

[serene glade]

nah

[spring spear]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1182330547234684989/1449166188155371571/IMG_3071.png?ex=693de8af&is=693c972f&hm=cd180ed63f1f538dbd9193a3e0785462190fec393eeb70778acbcf3ef3b7f18d&

[unkempt moss]

nah

[spring spear]

my bad

[placid slate]

Area was halved, heavy ass nerf

[manic veldt]

Gateway never seemed crazy to begin with, although I don’t play much comp

[grand forge]

it's difficult to find one that fits the role though. the 93r and the V9S are both quick plinking guns, and the Deagles and the BFR are heavy hitting beasts. What can we do for medium? The revolver fits, as it's a mix between the two, but what else?

[grand forge]

no gateway is insane for melee lights. watch any high-level gameplay and you'll see. neongutz does a lot of it, check him out.

[weak kernel]

low level players complain about smoke bomb a lot but gateway is just a superior smoke bomb if you need a fast escape because it actually removes you from the situation instead of making you mildly more obnoxious to shoot

and then there's stuff like the funny mindgames of putting a gateway exit right above an enemy position and splitting their attention between the possibility of dropping in from there and just walking in

[steel coral]

How do you counter swords if you are playing a light?

[eager wasp]

dash away

or shoot them