💣┇weapons-gadgets

[violet solar]

whats wrong with weapon inspects to keep your brain occupied

[vagrant galleon]

When is thermal vision getting added?

[sudden pewter]

It will return at the earliest sometime next season as no meaningful balance changes are going to be made until the conclusion of The Majors

[limpid socket]

Thermal vision was ass

[vagrant galleon]

Make the weapons stronger they hit like fucking paper

[modest lynx]

I got CS and Val for flipping little pokeys around, the game works for that because of the the lack of physical interactivity, In The Finals it dont make sense, just gadget swap if you're that desperate to fidget

[slow linden]

Dude just main dagger

[versed finch]

what are the counters to sr-84?

[sudden pewter]

Don’t try to fight them at range

[slow linden]

Really wish the cl40 had as much projectile velocity as it did in blast off and actually had a predictable arc,same with MGL

[slow linden]

Rage bait them into pushing

Goo gun spam,teabagging inside of a dome or behind mesh,run inside building

Goated new crosshair

[ruby dagger]

[wind folio]

https://tenor.com/view/aww-hell-nahh-aww-hell-aww-hell-nahh-gif-9659330954843262630

[vocal flume]

flamethrower get nerfed? mines barely doing any damage

[slow linden]

I hope not

I would nuke embark hq

[vocal flume]

i hit this light with 5 ticks of the flamethrower and didnt kill,. but when im a light i get hit 2 times and im dead instantly, i got hit by 1 tick and it took my health down to 13

[slow linden]

If you have worse ping than the players you are facing you will just hit them less and they will hit you more due to the lack of client side hitreg

[slow linden]

Aw hell yeah what you talking about

[indigo nexus]

"ticks"?

If it didn't kill them you probably just missed more than you thought

[indigo nexus]

ping isn't going to affect that

[vocal flume]

pretty sure i hit them, ticks as in the damage per hit, when i get hit by 1 hitmarker, its dealing tick damage, and 1 hit me and it took my entire health down to 13,

[shell sonnet]

imo a heat indicator for weapons would be neat
just displaying part of your hp bar as burned to indicate how low it will go until fire is done

probably way too much work for how little it does but like

[indigo nexus]

Well, with flamethrower it isn't clear which hits are direct or burn damage, so without clip evidence I overwhelmingly trust the game rather than your short term memory and visual processing to handle the situation correctly

[slow linden]

It does actually,the reason the hitreg is bad is because of horrendous desync with server side hitreg rather than client side hitreg

Sure client side would have more trades,but I'd honestly rather trade more than have to shoot into the future if I have even slightly worse internet than my opponent

Private games I believe are client side hitreg,melee actually feels good in them

[indigo nexus]

This is a very nontechnical explanation and as a result I am dubious that you have any information on this front that I do not

[indigo nexus]

This would need strong evidence to be reasonable, as this would be rather odd.

[indigo nexus]

Hit registration is clientside, with serverside validation. You don’t have to “shoot into the future”, you’ll just miss if you do that no matter how bad your connection is.

Very bad network conditions could lead to the server’s hit validation denying what should be hits, however this should not just happen due to ping. As in that case the correct info is still arriving completely and in-order.

[indigo nexus]

For melee weapons hit registration issues of late have not been networking related.

At least, those that I’m aware of

[slow linden]

The hits shouldn't be denied,a hit should always be a hit

[indigo nexus]

Well, er, this makes cheaters way more powerful

the validation is there because otherwise you could just tell the server whatever you liked and it would believe it

it’s specifically there to stop unfair things

[slow linden]

It would also make them way more blatant,they would get banned easier,legit players shouldn't be punished to spite cheaters

[indigo nexus]

It would mean they could be more blatant yes, but they don’t have to be. You can totally exploit the freedom that gives you without it being clear to the other players

unfortunately there is just not a good way to discriminate, the best cheats are very advanced

[slow linden]

I can usually tell if someone's a cheater by checking their steam profile or gamer score,if they have like no achievements,or almost no games,plus default pfp or no cosmetics along with these then at the very least they're smurfing

[indigo nexus]

you could lie to the server about when its communications arrived in order to score extra hits on players before they went behind cover and that sort of thing

[slow linden]

The server already let's people hit me on my screen before they peek the corner on my screen

[indigo nexus]

Cheaters often spend a lot of money on cheating in games, they’re not always so modest. Some of them are! But there’s a definite correlation between the quality of the cheat services they use and how confident they will be to invest time or money into their accounts

And of course, players just can’t reliably detect this any better than the anticheat systems themselves can

[indigo nexus]

Kind of? It does determine a fair outcome with this information

[slow linden]

A lot play on alts with nothing too and just mod the game to give themselves cosmetics that they don't own

[slow linden]

I don't see him,physically can't hit him,I'll be dead before he even peeks me,it happened earlier today

[indigo nexus]

that’s not possible without some major jitter / packet loss.

the information about your death will always, under normal circumstances, arrive after information about being shot at. But actions that you take in that time will be respected and their actions will be denied by the server validation if they shouldn’t have been able to happen

[slow linden]

Not really,we'll both be low,but he had a fraction of a second delay on my screen,that was all it took for him to win

If they didn't deny certain hits that should hit then at the very least I would have traded with the guy and been fine with that

[indigo nexus]

Let’s say you’re both sniper lights. You’re standing around a corner from one another.

The enemy peeks you and quickly headshots you. This is before you could possibly have reacted as he’s not around the corner on your screen. But, you will not be considered to have definitively died until your client receives that information. So while you are in a maybe-dead state, you will see the enemy peek you. Now, if you shoot too late and don’t kill them, yes you are dead, but if you shot quickly enough, you could be considered to have killed then first. Even though they saw the shot hit you and physically shot first, the server would then deny that hit and send yours through, and you’d win, because you actually shot first in that scenario as it would have occurred in realtime, which the server approximates using information about when these events happened.

[vocal flume]

nerf the bow please, reduce its fire rate, it makes no sense why it has the same damage as the sniper but faster fire rate

[slow linden]

No,bows actually harder to use close than sniper is

[vocal flume]

no it isnt, the bow doesnt even have to aim on the person and the arrows fly to em

[slow linden]

Try it I emplore you,sniper can be used like a shotgun trust me

[indigo nexus]

And then the enemy goes on reddit and complains about his “blatant hitreg issues” because he didn’t unfairly win the fight :p

[vocal flume]

bow is easier though, faster fire rate as well

[slow linden]

It really isn't

[vocal flume]

maybe for you it isnt

sniper needs a fire rate increase or it needs to be hotfixed as the shots are severely delayed now and then, i dunno when the shot fires 1.5s + after pulling the trigger

[slow linden]

Throwing knives you can actually argue that for,but I actually like the Throwing knives so I would argue the contrary out of bias

[indigo nexus]

You think that its major bullet velocity and movement speed advantage doesn’t balance that out? A bow can’t quickscope of course

[slow linden]

I hold no love for both sniper and bow and I am telling you which is better honestly

[vocal flume]

it kinda can but not as good, i just want more love for the sniper, its bullet drop or travel speed is 50/50 per shot, its never consistent

[slow linden]

Honestly I just want an iron sight and reflex option for sniper

That's the only love they could give it other than a rechamber speed buff,and I'm kinda on the fence about that

[dry otter]

can somebody explain the asn smg reload on light. how do you know if you have a fast reload or a long reload

[hazy elm]

hello everyone 🙂

[indigo nexus]

It has a quick swap mag which swaps in 0.7 seconds when one is depleted

[dry otter]

But how does it determine wich one you get

[indigo nexus]

What do you mean?

[dry otter]

Like when do you get a slow reload and when do you get a fast reload

[indigo nexus]

If one mag depletes, it quick swaps to the other one

If both deplete or you press reload, it does a reload

[dry otter]

Ah you need to finish your mag to get the fast one

[indigo nexus]

Yes

[dry otter]

I was just pressing reload

Ty

[frigid wagon]

SHESH

based

[sudden pewter]

You’ve the patience of a saint

Reading everything above cost me a few brain cells

[indigo nexus]

it's funny, both people I was talking to there, I have notes on their profiles which basically explain why I shouldn't bother, but I still want to :p

[sudden pewter]

Same

Notes feature is truly godsend

[ruby jolt]

yep

[warped talon]

What gadgets do you guys like to run with Goo gun + flamethrower?

[sudden pewter]

Lockbolt + Dome

Lockbolt staggers teams or separates them, Dome allows you to safely gain ground or duel effectively as enemy rounds don’t penetrate but yours do

[ruby jolt]

this

[boreal laurel]

Pyro mines, RPG, motion sensors

Kind of weird loadout I guess but it’s carried me for like 6 seasons now

[shell sonnet]

i feel like motion sensors might be a little underrated
i rarely see them but i think theyre neat

on seoul/fortune i usually place them on the wall away from the stairs where you dont see them immediately, but they cover multiple floors

[boreal laurel]

With flamethrower especially they’re good, you can see someone coming and just pre-fire around the corner and hit them before they can even see you

[slow linden]

Pyro mines,Pyro nade,dome or heal orb

[honest radish]

best gadget and weapons for medium?

[sudden pewter]

I’d say the Famas is the most popular weapon, but I’m a huge fan of the Repeater.

As for Gadgets? I’d say the Pad is a must have in any loadout beyond TDM

[glad field]

I don't see a suggestions tab so im putting here. Plls nerf the winch or if that's not possible at least bring back stun gun.

[muted condor]

Remove winch 🙏

[shell sonnet]

Id rather have 0 annoying items than 2

Also its #👂┇game-feedback

[glad field]

agreed, also thanks

[honest radish]

yah im using the famas atm, i like it, its quite accurate

my gadgets atm are the mine, jump pad and that hook thing u attach to i forgot thr name

zipline

[sudden pewter]

That seems like a pretty decent loadout

Once you’re comfortable with the Famas you can branch out and try other guns!

[sudden pewter]

<@&1012034066876473384> Kill him with rocks.

[clear vigil]

C4 best

How do i get level 1 in the server

[sudden pewter]

Send 35 messages.

[slow linden]

Shoot yourself

[mighty nymph]

hey! as per rule 10, we will be deleting this message <3

[sudden pewter]

Only took 5 hours smh

[mighty nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-morgan-bayharbour-butcher-knife-gif-13863408

CMs offline </3

they also spammed it in other channels, got rid of them too

[sudden pewter]

Oh sweet, hope it was a ban for the bot

[neat narwhal]

Embark is a joke at balancing

Cant reference demat having too high of a usage rate when every single medium runs defib. It's anti skill and you guys know it.

[sudden pewter]

No

[indigo nexus]

Can you elaborate on why?

[muted condor]

Defibs are over rated anyways

[native crater]

does 2 heal beams combine or does only 1 ofg them, work at a time

[neat narwhal]

you use one button and change the whole game for usage. A player can spend ALL usage and get it completely revoked by one gadget.

Pretty fuckin simple

legit playing right the fuck now and having to kill 6 players every time you fight 3 mediums

[muted condor]

Free kills

[neat narwhal]

rage bait obvious

[muted condor]

They stack

Heal balls do not stack with each other tho

[indigo nexus]

Completely revoked? You speak as though the defib has no cost or downsides

A regular revive requires more commitment but is a lot stronger

Defibs are okay but whether they’re better than the baseline is situational, they have to not only be better than regular revives but they have to be better enough that it warrants an entire gadget slot dedicated to them

[neat narwhal]

it really isn't. The downside is that you use the best gadget in the game

its the most used and it's not close.

[muted condor]

They really sent that great

Normal revive is better 80% of the time

[neat narwhal]

absolutely wrong

[muted condor]

You only use defibs if you absolutely have to

[neat narwhal]

or people would be normal reviving more than defibing. But they aren't

I have never seen that to be the case, only under certain circumstances is there a time to not defib. When you have time.

[muted condor]

Ah, so you’re just completely clueless and don’t know literally anything about the gadgets. Checks out

[neat narwhal]

You get another player back that can find, if it's a heavy its more health than a light.

[indigo nexus]

Don’t conflate what people do with what works well unless your sample is of very good players

[muted condor]

I’m not even gonna bother to try and reasonably explain this lol

[indigo nexus]

Defib is okay but it needs to be played around carefully to be good

[neat narwhal]

youre legit not explainging

Youre saying shit that is wrong and then acting like you said anything the fuck

[muted condor]

I can tell this guy is a lost cause and will not accept anything no matter how many facts you give

[finite agate]

so is this conversation actually going to go anywhere in good faith or are we just gonna skip to the insults becomes the entire thing stems from ranting about a few bad games?

[indigo nexus]

No, it’s that your teammate only has half their health and no abilities for a short period, and that you spend a gadget slot to be able to do this.

[neat narwhal]

the facttss being anecttal evidence that is not based in usage rates. Gotcah

[indigo nexus]

Usage rates aren’t evidence for how good anything is. Unless your sample is very good players, again

[neat narwhal]

except it tells embark when to nerf things.

[indigo nexus]

P90 kinda sucks but apparently it’s popular in casual play

[muted condor]

Let’s just skip to that because I can tell this guy will never listen

Absolutely troglodyte

[finite agate]

checks notes you filthy the finals players. nothing more than the fps version of dbd fans

[indigo nexus]

I don’t know what their process is but I expect they have, at the bare minimum, someone who investigates this with better data science skills than me. They definitely don’t just look at that number and balance for it, it’d be downright stupid.

[muted condor]

Damn, that’s rude

[finite agate]

every other time i tab into this channel out of boredom it's either solar or c4tter being god's strongest soldier lmfao

[finite agate]

#👂┇game-feedback shows it to be true unfortunately 😔 ✊

[muted condor]

I just enjoy being unreasonably rude about anything regardless if I’m right or not

[muted condor]

How dare you mention the channel that should not be named

Oh my god… it can’t be… is it truly here? An actual good suggestion in the feedback channel that isn’t three pages long?!

This man is truly my hero

https://tenor.com/view/crying-gif-18381156323111165827

[shell sonnet]

thing is, there are different ways to be better
ofc theyre half hp and dont have items

but you exchanged several seconds of motionless risk, where not running away sets up up for a harsh punishment by easy headshots, for 1 second of bunny hopping charge time that can be done in complete safety before you jump at the statue

if youre in a situation, where you could not possibly, ever revive someone, defib allows you to with relative ease, and now the enemy has a 2v1 on their hands

[indigo nexus]

Yes, that’s why it’s alright

[shell sonnet]

you think its alright, imo its too strong
or maybe just done in the wrong way

open to suggestion on how to satisfy both parties if yall wanna talk about that

[shell sonnet]

mightve had a good clip of that recently, hold on

[muted condor]

Remove defib :3

Easiest fix possible

Let’s just remove defib, winch, and dash all at the same time and save everyone the trouble

[neat narwhal]

They removed stun because of how absolutely awful it was to play against. I'd rather have that back.

[indigo nexus]

If we disagree on its optimal state I’m not sure how we’d really do that

right now I don’t feel like it’s a mandatory pick so I don’t have a strong enough opinion on the matter that I’d express my own

[shell sonnet]

i mean, i could yap about some of the problems i see and how id try to solve it, and we see which one of those pisses you off the least lol

hope that doesnt sound rude, i just woke up and need to warm up my humor processing unit

[neat narwhal]

If you look at APM the amount of work it takes to kill someone to revive them with no effort during a fight is insane.

[muted condor]

Revive at held health with no gadgets in the same amount of time as a standard revive actually

It takes over 10 seconds for a defibed heavy to be fully back at 100% fighting capacity

[shell sonnet]

basically this

you want to revive?
you have to stand still for multiple second, which leaves you open to being shot
its a risk you have to take, which the enemy can take advantage of, its their reward for killing one of you in the first place

meanwhile they can jump in and defib, reducing the revive time drastically, while also allowing them to move during it, lowering risk even more

[shell sonnet]

it takes the same amount of time for them to be able to move
but time it takes for them to make sure they will be able to move is cut down to 1 second
if the defib goes off, they will be able to move, no matter what, after which you have to kill them again

[neat narwhal]

Comes back with invincibility btw as well.

[muted condor]

Not exactly

The “i frames” are kinda confusing and I don’t know the exact explanation on why it happens

[neat narwhal]

i frames literally stand for invincibility frames

[muted condor]

If I remember correctly it looks like I frames but they aren’t actually even spawned in yet or able to interact during them

Weird animation timing shit

[neat narwhal]

yea... and you cant shoot them...

[muted condor]

While they are visibly there they can’t do anything until they are able to be damaged

Just wait for a half second after it looks like they are revived to start dealing damage

[shell sonnet]

there is also the whole thing of trying to kill the defib medium before they get it off, which can be questionable
or fighting them after it went off, which puts you on a timer, and likely leaves you low on hp/ammo, giving you genuine risk of dying to the defibbed [insert comment on i-frames]

dont know what id do with defib tbh

[muted condor]

Define can be super powerful in the right situation but I think people over estimate them sometimes

[shell sonnet]

theres plenty of situations like above mentioned
i think most are well within reason to complain

[muted condor]

Also for the love of god don’t defib me while im running mini gun please

Straight up free kill for the enemy every time

[shell sonnet]

yeah, there are some situations where it does do that

maybe there is a possible rework that fixes both sides tho

[muted condor]

Define have the problem of being annoying to fight but would be dog shit if they got nerfed anymore

Just a shitty gadget to balance

[shell sonnet]

thats why a straight nerf is probably a bad idea, doesnt change the core problem
im more for a rework

[muted condor]

Honestly maybe just make them a faster revive

It’s kinda boring but if they had to be held on the statue for a short time then did a normal revive it would be better

Or they could do what iv been suggesting for seasons on end now

[shell sonnet]

im not sure if that doesnt also make it a problem tho
still reduces the revive time+risk to potentially problematic levels
im enticed to think it may be fine, but with full hp, gadgets and special it could prove problematic

[muted condor]

Make heal beam a gadget and defibs a spec

[shell sonnet]

nvm, that was what you mean

[muted condor]

You make heal beam more viable, spread spec usage off demat more, and are able to keep defibs powerful but in line

You also stop triple medium defib demat revive circles

[shell sonnet]

would remain annoying, but at least with drawbacks
not sure if it wouldnt land in winch territory though

[shell sonnet]

might be able to permit gadgets again to give some chance of survival during the sickness, since chaining is blocked off by disabling spec
not sure if the gadget heal beam might not make it an issue

or if its gonna make it problematic some other way

[muted condor]

Sure it might still be annoying but I feel like that one change could fix so many problems medium has

[shell sonnet]

gotta pray mediums dont ask for buffs since its now technically in a better spot (even if it was deserving to be put there already)

i know some will complain medium sucks now without it in every loadout, and that everything has to be jacked up to the moon

[shell sonnet]

i was thinking defib could be respawning in a different way
as if you had coined (without using a coin ofc), so one of the static map spawn points

the medium has the immediate combat disadvantage, without the guaranteed 2nd player spawning in to back them up
the attacker has to at most fight a 2nd 1v1, of which they can have a true advantage of shooting first
meanwhile the medium can guarantee the team wont wipe, while the revived doesnt get an unwinable spawncamp situation

question is, is a revive that risky, that they need to defib rather than revive?
can the team play without them, until theyre back?
if they cant, and do avoid the wipe, can the single player reasonably get the statues and reset for them?

has some depth, and proper risk for its potentially big reward with the avoided wipe time reset in qc/money lost in ranked

what do you think?
may be a little complex...

also, defib train could be a problem
endless flood of players, one after another, defibbing over and over
they do risk a bit, since they all can get shot during the defib

problem is, it wastes away the defending teams items

so maybe defib would need to be on cooldown when spawning in this way

[hardy dust]

I dont really think defib needs much tuning rn

Maybe remove the iframes but apart from that its honestly fine

[hushed kestrel]

make inf turret placement

[shell sonnet]

disagree, so do others
got anything to say about my above points on it?
would love to hear some defib supporter arguments

[heavy lava]

it kinda is

[hardy dust]

Well, its more of that there are bigger issues to focus on imo

For the suggestion of a coin esque revive, I think its way too unintuitive and also an insane nerf

Most of the complaints I see about defib are things that can be played around

There aren't very many scenarios where its oppressive in combat, and the risk of a defib is already kinda high

I think the main issue with defib is that people don't counterplay them enough

That being said, they are incredibly powerful if used properly, but I don't think thats too much of a bad thing

Swapping it's position with heal could maybe work, but I dont think it really lines up with the design of specs v. Gadgets, plus you'd need to retune both defib and heal to make it work

Also heal + demat could be problematic

Ive seen people throw out the idea of a flat 100 hp on revive (nerfs M and H but buffs L defib targets)

Or something like having a heal penalty on defib, since the drawback of being half hp can easily be negated by heals (cough cough h+)

If I had to make any changes it would probably be no iframes and heal penalty, since they both mitigate the downsides of defibs, giving a bit more risk to when you use them, while still letting them be a strong team oriented gadget

[hardy dust]

Although this is more of h+ being stupid

Heal beam can do it too but its nowhere near as strong as h+

Anyways remove winch from the game

[livid dew]

Add a tommy gun

[shell sonnet]

played around in what ways?
i want to get a better picture of your viewpoint

[shell sonnet]

imo defib has incredibly low risk
especially considering what it allows you to sidestep, explained above

[shell sonnet]

here

[shell sonnet]

in theory i like the flat hp idea
my main problems with that are that it makes it even harder for the revived themselves, and that it doesnt fix the main issue, only makes the symptom slightly less bad

[dull brook]

Anyone know if anything has been said about when the thermal vision ability will be added back?

[lyric jackal]

make a spoon dagger and sword. or maybe a fork dagger. or both.

[lucid cave]

Spork dagger

[slow linden]

Give us two turrets(no more than two,either that or infinite placement but you have to keep repairing them or they'll bleed out over time,and the bleed gets more tiresome the more turrets you place)

[vapid sky]

i think dagger needs less wacky skins. a lot of dagger players been asking for a butterfly knife for a while

[cunning slate]

Martini Henry on medium?

[sudden pewter]

Frankly I’m with bootyslurp11 on this.

[errant pawn]

what class

stengun would be fun, the side mag gun

or a ppsh 41

a benelli m4 could be very fun

Bizon aswell

Rpk maybe?

could add a sticky nade with a tiny bit bigger range, and a bit less damage could be a light gadget

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[compact tundra]

Na, I want a Sten MkII for light or medium. Just looks like a crackhead gun

Maybe the sten for light and a Tommy gun for medium. But the problem is what would make these different from the M11/P90

[sudden pewter]

Where have you been

[compact tundra]

Mostly been busy and I've just been working on other stuff besides hypothetical balance ideas for the finals, which is like 90% of what I do here

I still play the finals most days tho, just been on discord less

[sudden pewter]

Cease at once

You exist on this discord purely to keep me sane, it was just me and Snail for a bit

[compact tundra]

Oh shit really, damn. My bad, I shall return to keep the all knowing occupied

[sudden pewter]

Gooooood

Sniper Sniper Spear Throw

[compact tundra]

There hasn't been much balance to talk about tho, been a really lacking season balance change wise

I've got a friend who's new to the finals and they're trying to main sniper/bow and it's very funny

[sudden pewter]

Yeah the majors have slowed everything

[compact tundra]

Honestly I've just been grinding out head to head. I like the 1v1 style and it's less brain damaging than solo queuing WT or ranked

[modest lynx]

Nothing ever happens

[compact tundra]

That what I'm saying, it's been a fucking dry well for me entertainment wise. I love seeing new patch notes and there ain't been shit. I miss the old days when we had the weekly Wednesday balance changes, S2 my beloved

[modest lynx]

Real and true

[sudden pewter]

I’ve been using sword and I can’t say the clamp dampens its strength all too much

It’s certainly a more simple weapon but its effectiveness is unmarred

[compact tundra]

My hate is that it turned it into a simple weapon

The minigun isn't the flamethrower for a reason

[golden turtle]

Am I crazy to think that the repeater is better than the revolver pretty much all the time?

[sudden pewter]

Not entirely wrong but not entirely correct. I’d take the Revolver over the Repeater any day of the week if the engagement is within 1m-20m.

But 20m+ I prefer the Repeater for the ranged poke power.

[golden turtle]

Feels like most engagements tend to be poking from range nowadays

That, and I'm dookie at hitting headshots

[sudden pewter]

We’re in a poke meta, the inclusion of the BFR gives Heavy a consistently powerful burst option effective at any range

So now an entire team can build for poke

I’ve boiled innards and consulted the tarot cards, the stars tell me next season we will see a dive-centric meta

[golden turtle]

I can't wait to see Cerberus and DB rail my team next season in that case

[sudden pewter]

The palms say “AKM”

[golden turtle]

Good old reliable

[hardy dust]

Im gonna go for a guess and say the meta is gonna be m26, p90 and sa12

Maybe replace p90 with fcar or akm

Ngl that would be a pretty fun meta

If they stay relatively similar and don't get buffs, with just strong poke options getting nerfs

[sudden pewter]

SA12 will never not be at least viable unless Embark in their infinite wisdom intentionally targets it

[hardy dust]

Hopefully embark keeps it that way

Sa12 is genuinely such a great weapon to match heavy

Having more side picks would be great but it should at least always be a very good puck

[sudden pewter]

I hope the AKM sees more usage next season, I imagine with the upcoming melee rework we’re going to have a CQC renaissance

[karmic nacelle]

I still love my famas and pike

[hardy dust]

I have pretty low expectations for the melee rework considering embark's track record, and I heavily doubt any of them are gonna be anywhere near meta, so I don't think they'll influence an increase in cqc

I think embark is gonna nerf poke and thats gonna make cqc a lot stronger

[sudden pewter]

I’m hoping that as we languish for the Majors someone is toiling away at the Herculean task of balancing melee weapons

[tiny notch]

wait melee rework is still happening?

i seriously hope they keep swords mobility

[fiery void]

Am I crazy to think that the repeater is better than the revolver pretty much all the time?

[tiny notch]

you cant compare repeater to revolver its much more similar to pike

[sudden pewter]

Is this a fucking copy paste??

[gaunt pike]

I’m hoping WT2 has some massive changes

[fiery void]

yeah sry bro someone told me that to be come level one so I can be able to create Voice channels with peaple I need send chats so I start copying you know

[tiny notch]

just talk to people in general chats

[sudden pewter]

35 messages

[fiery void]

I don't know any one to talk to this seems much easier and faster

[golden turtle]

I almost feel honored

[fiery void]

if I just spammed any thing on the chat is going to be a problem, can I get blocked or something

[polar cedar]

calling it now (and praying): famas will not receive any major nerfs, but rather some other medium gun will become miles better because of a new spec/buff
also bfr is DEFINITELY getting nerfed 🥀

[tiny notch]

winch hopefully gets nerfed 🙏

[worldly schooner]

burst weapons are so hard to balance, either they are shit or wayy too good

[dusty saddle]

So why’d the thermal under work like whats going to happen to it ?

[tired fractal]

idk, famas is pretty well tuned in comparison to every other medium meta so far
93r is a little too good though

[worldly schooner]

I meant most of the time mb, but yes 93r is a great example

[golden turtle]

When you hit the bursts, it feels so good

[tired fractal]

yeah
I wanna see something like a recoil control or range nerf to put it in line with everything else

[worldly schooner]

that's probably because it might be the strongest gun in the game, maybe not statwise but in tandem with the class

[worldly schooner]

damage nerf is a necessity

[tired fractal]

nah, that's too far imo
if they wanna nerf ttk I'd say RoF nerf could work

[golden turtle]

I don't doubt it, I just tend to lean towards burst fire guns in any game

[worldly schooner]

this is just insane to me

[golden turtle]

Love me the Famas and the Hemlok in apex for example

[worldly schooner]

almost 40 dmg per head on a burst

[tired fractal]

compare it to v9s or m11 though

[worldly schooner]

burst is so polarizing. either ppl love using it or don't (i'm in the second camp!)

[tired fractal]

• the chances of getting a full head burst is pretty low

[worldly schooner]

v9 is how you get carpel tunnel. thats where the amazing accuracy comes in + a cloak/vanish? one burst one a light and its over. m11 is actually really well tuned

[tired fractal]

I feel that a raw damage nerf would turn 93r into something like 6.0 arn or 5.0 cerb

oh wait I'm dumb nvm, they could just adjust the rate of fire so it's balanced 💀

[worldly schooner]

I just want some sort of ttk interaction change. it's much too good rn. and THIRTY TWO METER MIN DROP OFF????? i was unaware it was that long range

[tired fractal]

• faster RoF = quicker magazine empty, sorta making it more unique to the famas

[tired fractal]

can't argue with that lol, fair take

[golden turtle]

When the pistol is a sniper rifle 🥀

[worldly schooner]

big patch after major 🙏 I'm begging

[golden turtle]

Hopefully so

[hardy dust]

93r should just get a range nerf

[worldly schooner]

more than that is needed

[hardy dust]

Maybe mag size or smth but I think range should be enough

[worldly schooner]

it's just too good when you get that first headburst off

[heavy tendon]

With the Cb01 repeater is there any reason to use revolver?

IMO they feel comparable if not the repeater being a little better than the revolver

[indigo nexus]

The revolver dealing more headshot damage with almost twice the firerate is the main reason

followed by a more efficient reload and better hipfire

[heavy tendon]

Reloading an empty repeater feels faster than reloading an empty revolver though

[indigo nexus]

repeater is better because it’s easier to line up shots, does a good job without hitting mostly heads, and has a bigger mag and longer range

[indigo nexus]

Well, it’s not. It takes twice as long.

Still, this is almost impossible but a revolver can wipe a team of three mediums in two seconds, giving it perhaps the highest skill ceiling in the game?

Repeater is more meta because… nobody is that good. Only a cheater could do that

here's a comparison

oh, I think I messed up the repeater's empty reload, that should be 5.05s...

ah, you know what it is, zafferman never measured this properly so I did it myself, but I erroneously measured the time until the gun was visually reloaded rather the time until it allowed you to actually shoot

so I wrote down the empty reload like this, but all of these values should probably have a flat amount added to them

tactical reload must be messed up in the same way

I'll fix that... someday

[hardy dust]

Headshot damage gives it faster ttks

But its way less consistent and has much shorter range, so repeater is usually just much better

Hitting heads consistently is just too hard

[shell sonnet]

hey mittens, what was with the whole defib thing?

[indigo nexus]

generally faster with bodyshots too

[indigo nexus]

#👂┇game-feedback message @gaunt pike

It’s not about nexon being able to afford it, it’s about the game being profitable. This argument just… doesn’t make sense. Nexon isn’t an entity of generous philanthropy, they are a business.

⠀
huh, this server blocks small text for some reason?

anyway;
(side note - why do people talk about tickrates like this? Asking a service provider to at minimum double the running costs of a service for a marginal benefit to your experience makes no sense unless you have a very strong argument for it, but we don’t even well understand the situation at hand!)

[torn grove]

Can we pleaseeee get a karambit or butterfly dagger skin plssss

[hardy dust]

Wdym?

[frail merlin]

when is the p90 getting nerfed

[hardy dust]

Not anytime soon probably

Its not very good overall. Easy, but not strong

[violet solar]

i feel so dirty

[weak oxide]

Why does the BFR feel like lukewarm milk to aim, NONE of my shots hit target lmao

Like I'm convinced they're flying out of the barrel at a 45 degree angle AWAY from them rather than the crosshair

[violet solar]

its hip fire is very very bad only time i hipfire is like above when my barrel is stuffed in their mouth

[weak oxide]

Even when ads it just feels wack

[gaunt pike]

Glad you like to side with millionaires turning a game into something for profit, our game could be a lot better if they cared

Games are like movies to me. The people who make them do it for the art. The people who fund them do it for profit.

This game is target at competitive players. Yet the servers are casual af compared to every other esports game

[weak oxide]

I'll give it another run and see how we do

[analog pewter]

they should add a revolver rifle and im not joking

[violet solar]

my only problem with the ads is the bead for a front iron is a little fat so it can be hard to aim at long distance

but i also dont like the way the scopes look on it so i choose to suffer

[analog pewter]

I think more importantly it's ridiculous to act like 64 tick servers - or really anything higher than what we have now - is somehow going to turn the finals into a net-loss game

[gaunt pike]

Also this fr - i don’t think it’s that expensive

Oh wait i looked it up kinda and it is expensive lol - I forget all the destruction happens server side

But there are still things they could do to make hit reg a lot better, especially regarding dash

[analog pewter]

i mean im sure it's expensive but like not enough to be the difference maker on their profit margins

[weak oxide]

God this thing is weird

If you can aim with it good for you
Cus I sure as shit can't

Throwing this thing in the bin lmao

[violet solar]

dont know how i do it just do im sorry wish i could give more advice

are you on controller by chance?

[weak oxide]

No, KBM

I think it's just plain ol skill issue tbh

[weak oxide]

All good

Why is the KS-23 a light-chunking machine

Holy shit

[eager wasp]

bfrs hipfire isn't that bad

[violet solar]

it never is consistent enough for me to trust it when i only have 5 shots

[weak oxide]

There's two swords on the enemy team in this power shift match
And I thought sniper lights were annoying 😭

[violet solar]

you know what can oneshot combo light players the bfr just need a little practice lol

[weak oxide]

lol

[analog pewter]

The only thing its okay at

[weak oxide]

True

Also holy shit I might be enjoying the MGL
Which is terrible news for my bank because that Ospuze skin looks dope as fuck

Also this thing pairs decently with Goo Gun, which works better here than Winch cus you can self-damage

Sure you're a heavy and have 350 HP, but it HURTS and so do your enemies

[worldly schooner]

add me up LMAO. I got a bit too many coins laying around

[weak oxide]

I just hopped off 😭
If you're legit, do you have to be friends to receive a gift lol

[worldly schooner]

yessir!

[weak oxide]

Also my IGN is just my display name here in the server

Ack
Alr hang on lemme hop on da xbox again

Embed fail 😭

[worldly schooner]

dammit no embed perms in this channel

[weak oxide]

A true tragedy

[weak oxide]

Alr I'm on

[worldly schooner]

pulp one?

[weak oxide]

Yea, Pulp Extractor

Shoutout Mogus he the goat

I am now sunk cost fallacy'd into becoming a MGL player

[violet solar]

W mogus

[shell sonnet]

Ive been wanting to get into goo gun + mgl
The set-ups for it seems amazing, but im worried to be caught without my cns safety net

[shell sonnet]

After you wrote your thingy i disagreed and pointed to a thing i wrote before, since i wanted your opinion on it

[shell sonnet]

This

[hardy dust]

Well, defib needs to have an advantage over normal revives, otherwise its useless

The advantage is that its quicker, which makes it less risky (but still risky overall)

The downside is that the defibbed player is in a much more vulnerable position and you're using a gadget slot for it

Its strong but not op

[shell sonnet]

defib should have an advantage
but 5x less risky?

and that is only considering direct time spend
this can be done behind cover, and even tiny amounts can be used to make it completely save, where a normal revive would never have worked and wouldve basically been a free kill

not mentioning charging behind cover to jump out of cover or bunny hopping during it to make it even less risky

it reduces the risk by way too much

that the revived is weaker after the fact often doesnt matter
if you otherwise couldnt have revived them at all and wouldve wiped

you gain a numbers/firepower advantage that can turn the tides of battle, while the enemy is being ground down and cant risk reviving

and theres also this
if you do try to take advantage of the (in your opinion) risky revive, then you likely need to reload after eliminating the reviver, leaving you at risk of being killed by the otherwise weakened player
if you dont, then they can run away so you dont finish them, heal, etc.

and that is if you even bother to camp the statue in the first place
any normal revive needs to be carried to cover, and leaves more time to be chased, making it properly risky
which rewards the original eliminator with an opportunity to extend the lead

if you dont camp the statue, you just walk in on a guy thats ready for you, with backup already being inevitable

[shell sonnet]

and, while it does use a slot, that doesnt mean its not too strong (-for that slot)
winch uses a specialization slot, that doesnt mean its not problematic

and it could also give its advantage in a different way, that feels better to play around (perhaps also being more considerate of the revived as well)

[radiant inlet]

brooo db pmo

like
get that spawn of satan out my face weirdo

[frigid wagon]

rocket goate

[swift agate]

does anybody know why the double jump you get after dashing in blast off was removed? that was a pretty integral part of your moveset, and without it everybody really struggles to stay airborne for very long, which is a problem in a mode that is balanced around being airborne for most of the time

[weak oxide]

Wait did they patch that out this morning or something? I've been doing it for the past couple days, it just has to be right after a dash.

Like half a second ish delay

[weak oxide]

I suppose you can bring RPG for destruction purposes?
My testing runs have been Goo Gun, MGL, RPG, Heal Ball, and Dome Shield

[shell sonnet]

i mean, mgl should be enough
just takes a bit to break through

i usually prepare the spot i want to break by shooting it, what was it?, 7 times?
so i can just blow it up when the need arises

tho it doesnt come up thaaaat often

since this is my loadout

i dont run out that often for some reason

[shell sonnet]

especially since, with goo gun
you can create a blob on the ceiling to set up destroying it
so you dont need to bounce off of walls near it

[weak oxide]

EXACTLY 👍

[shell sonnet]

Also, what in scotties recycling bin is that rendering error on my beard

[nova condor]

med

[hardy dust]

Idk where you got 5x less risky but it depends on the situation.

[hardy dust]

Well if you fight a 1v1 and use a gadget that requires a dead teammates and the enemy doesn't use anything it makes logical sense for you to win, but even then if they kill you when you defib, they'll get a free kill on your teammate unless they're super low

I don't think it needs any major nerfs just little ones

[hardy dust]

Like in this clip you sent, the guy made a huge misplay by reloading instead of just taking advantage of the defibbed player's vulnerability. Throwing a pyro + 9 bullets is much more than enough to finish off a half hp target, and they could qm to finish aswell. Plus if they had prior knowledge of it being a cl40 they could have closed the gap instead of backing up and giving the advantage to the defibbed player

The player using defibs died by going for the revive and got lucky the akm player misplayed

Which is why I say most of the issues with defib are just people not playing against them properly

[cedar idol]

blue demoman from TF2 in the finals confirmed?

[hardy dust]

If the akm player died bc they shot the cl40 player when they had Iframes it would have been a valid criticism, but that didn't happen

[shell sonnet]

it turns a 5s revive into a 1s revive (could argue its even better, because of said cover issue + bhopping, etc.)

[shell sonnet]

problem is, most gadgets would have had decent counterplay, low impact, or both
not defib

[shell sonnet]

they only had that much ammo left because the guy they shot was already low
a player with full hp would have gotten off more shots, all but guaranteeing that the defibbed can finish the job

the defibber died because they were already low to begin with, and still got a revive that should never have happened otherwise, and my teammate died to it
had the cl-40 medium not misplayed and walked into my teammate, he would have won rather than traded, and gotten to revive his mate again

this also leaves the problem of any and all cover being useable for safe revives unanswered

with normal revives, you have enough time to run after them and potentially get a straight spray of headshots and just eliminate them outright before the revive is done
with defib, unless you actively camp and stare down the statue, youre unlikely to notice in time, let alone run across the room to prevent it
where even then, you still get way less time and they get to bunny hop to avoid even more damage/headshots
if they didnt already charge up safely behind cover, and then opt to defib in the open to fight you while their teammate is coming back instead

[swift mauve]

why so so many pros play the famas over fcar? is it just preference over the burst fire or is there an objective advantage to it (except those 2 extra bullets in the mag lol)

[shell sonnet]

@wild zenith
yup, agree on that
Monaco is one of, if not my favorite map

Cqc is fun

But almost every single cashout lies in perfect winch territory

Usually you could have interesting ambush games

Suprise someone by climbing through a window
Destroy the floor with sledge to drop your enemies
Ambush them at doorways

Or use some brute force tool like dome shield and make them retreat and re-engage

With winch, you just run in, stun + pull into ideal range, and then either kill them outright, or use rpg to finish them off

Its not fun

[indigo nexus]

burst fire is good

allows you to avoid taking as much damage around cover

[rotund musk]

I use dash ,vanish bomb , gate way
I can't find weapon and 3 th gadget
No m11 or 93r

[forest birch]

Does anyone have gameplay clips of the rustlers resolve minigun skin, because if it doesnt actually get wound up to shoot ill be honest im not gonna get it

[shell sonnet]

the new brass beast looking skin?
pretty sure it does

the skin showcase yt channel probably covered it already

[forest birch]

It hasnt unfortunately, I checked

[compact tundra]

For the new brass cool looking mini gun skin you crank it like a Gatling gun to shoot it

[shell sonnet]

pretty sure i saw a clip tho
(dont murder me if it doesnt)

[compact tundra]

I bought it, you crank it like a Gatling gun to shoot it

[forest birch]

Ty ❤️

[weak oxide]

Hell yeah

[lofty venture]

Devs,
What kind of drugs are you guys on? Why the fuck are you advertising Blast Off, one of the most despised events, that promotes a skill-less noobtube the same time you're trying to promote this game as an eSports. Seriously, get your heads out of your rears and maybe take a hint from your own ARC Raider devs and make nerf the stupid CL-40 grenade launcher already. Sure its not meta at Diamond and Ruby, but its annoying, loud, and allows bad players to outperform above average players just by spamming bunny hop and shooting....it goes against the entire goal of making this game a competitive shooter, not a dying cheesefest.

[worldly schooner]

uh yeah sure nerf a not even close to meta weapon. no. It needs a stat change, more direct/less splash dmg. not a nerf. and arc is a totally different game, don't compare the two

[indigo nexus]

the CL-40 is not that good or popular, I don't really understand why people take issue against it. You don't have to be even close to diamond or ruby for it to fall behind.

bad players will not do well with it against average players because of how easy it is to counter

[quick shuttle]

anyone know how to shoot instantly after winching with the bfr titan

[shell sonnet]

my opinion on it isnt quite as extreme as theirs, but i do think bunny hopping should not reduce its self damage by as much as it does (or at all)
its almost 50% iirc?
and that is with looking straight down, a slight angle makes that even lower
accidentally hitting an enemy directly rather than shooting next to them can actually result in you taking more self damage

i think bunny hopping shouldnt be as reliable/strong of a counter to an intended downside, and then maybe they can buff something else a little to make up for it
(couldnt tell you what though)

[spring spear]

press the shoot button

[spring spear]

if you already know its not even meta why bring esports into question
anyway above average players know how to aim so at best the cl40 is trading 1 for 1 with em

[lofty venture]

That's simply not true at all, it has a massive flat 50 cm inner blast radius with a large linear scale outer blast radius (old-school aim assist), its why bad players and why losing teams at times will all switch to it. You know a lot of old school console games with rudimentary controllers used this type of mechanic for a reason right? Its aim-assist clear and simple. Its why its called a "noob-tube". Its why my buddy with very little FPS skills playing on a 6 cm/360 mouse sensitivity was running up 20-30 kills a match with the CL-40, yet only averages 15-20 kills a match with the Revolver now that he's practiced with a 38 cm/360 sensitivity.

Shroud, Dr. Disrespect, heck even Appoh have all said its annoying and shouldn't even be a main weapon in an FPS game because it literally raises the skill floor to compete with the average player. The reality is that the game isn't going to live if you don't give a shit about skill at the mid-range.

Again, the CL-40 is beatable, but why would my average players continue to play when some shitlord who barely has any kills with a gun can switch to this gun and start outperforming my buddies with guns. It just devolves the entire match into multiple CL-40s.

The fact that even ARC Raider devs think the CL-40 grenade launcher was a big mistake that they vowed not to make in ARC Raiders should tell you something...

[tiny notch]

guys 50 centimeters is huge

[spring spear]

hey if it gets the job done then its big enough

[lofty venture]

Compared to a single pixel yes.

[tiny notch]

woah the splash damage weapon does splash damage instead of hitscan 🤯

[spring spear]

either way the average player dies to a flamethrower slowly approaching him in the open so i dont think using that as a base for an argument is a good idea

[lofty venture]

That's fine, but why the hell is it being used by in CQC range to bunny hop? It should be doing way more self-damage.

[spring spear]

well i do agree with that, the self damage on explosive weapons is just very inconsistent

[lofty venture]

If a heavy takes like 100 self-damage using their RPG in the same range, the CL-40 should do the same.

Again, I say its beatable, but its a bit frustrating when all my friends have uninstalled this game over the darn thing. Even my friend who abused the CL-40 can't go back to degening it just to keep playing.

[spring spear]

180 self damage would be too much for the cl40 but sure i see your point

[tiny notch]

it already does 1.2x self damage, while also being the only medium weapon to do self damage in the first place

[shell sonnet]

id just want it to be consistent in the 125 it does (maybe by making it a flat self damage up to jump height)

[indigo nexus]

1.35x

[indigo nexus]

easier close range hits in exchange for harder long range hits and ineffectiveness against enemies with a height advantage, coupled with a generally slow TTK. You seem to be ignoring its disadvantages?

I do not care who believes it to be annoying as I believe that players have a tendency to root those kind of reactions in irrational reasoning.

[indigo nexus]

I really don’t believe that they can.

[lofty venture]

It needs to 1.75x self-damage to heavily discourage players bunny hop spamming in CQC range. Not only that, if you kill yourself with it it needs to give the kill to the enemy.

The weapon has a purpose in dispersing turtling teams on the objective, but it shouldn't be cheesing people in CQC range.

[indigo nexus]

Why not just increase the self damage radius instead? The damage multiplier isn’t really the issue as if used correctly it can be largely avoided

[lofty venture]

That works as well, but not sure if Embark coded the weapon that way.

[indigo nexus]

I agree with the second bit

However, I do think that the fact that enemy players can also reduce the damage they take to it by jump spamming is unhealthy

Maybe it could be improved by a slightly narrower but taller blast zone

[lofty venture]

That could help. Another thing is that they need to add a tinnitus audio option like BF. My one buddy with ear issues has to crank the volume all the way down whenever thing is used.

[indigo nexus]

Tinnitus? Maybe you mean something different to what I think, but that’s not a feature in this game

[lofty venture]

A tinnitus audio option is not currently in the game yet, but they should add it since the game does have a lot of explosions. It reduces the volume and audio frequency of explosions.

[shell sonnet]

bunny hopping will still lower that by half, while making true accidents catch debilitating strays
just make the current self damage actually consistent, it comes out to the same result, just needlessly punishing everything else less

[indigo nexus]

Does your friend have night mode enabled in audio settings?

It makes explosions quieter (and gunshots, to a lesser extent)

[lofty venture]

Yeah we've told him about it, but he hates that he loses distance audio tracking, which is as big drawback to night modes.

[shell sonnet]

if you make it narrower, you nerf it against aps, which is already a tad too strong against it (imo)

would love to change a look of the whole aps situation in general

maybe primary weapon specific hp, and infinite against gadgets?
a small start up to prevent insta feet place cheese
turrets recharge changes to prevent instant replacing

dunno

its not used much outside of saltswitching to counter cl

[muted condor]

This guy is still crying about the cl40 💀

[shell sonnet]

stupid idea, but maybe the aoe could be slices (of where the actual intercepters are shot from)
so you can counter it by shooting near the aps while its aoe is turned away

[muted condor]

Wasn’t good before and has gotten nerfed twice

I’m starting to think it might just be a skill issue

[lofty venture]

You forget that it was buffed a few patches ago, which players started the bunny hopping trend. Also, If Shroud, Dr. Disrespect, and even Appoh have complained about it raising the skill floor, its definitely not a skill issue for the people using guns, but rather the bad players abusing it to compete with average players.

[half bramble]

cl40 has travel time, massive self damage and no use at long range, its not competing agaisnt a hitscan player who knows all he has to do is not get constantly peeked by it

even melee players can just go monkey mode and get in their face to make them explode themselves

[muted condor]

Who cares what Shroud and Dr. Diddle think

Bunch of goof balls

Anyone that loses to the cl40 wasn’t going to win against any other weapon

[lofty venture]

Dude, even the ARC Raider devs knew the CL-40 noobtube was mistake and made damn sure they didn't repeat it in ARC Raiders...the Hullcracker does practically no damage against a player.

[lofty venture]

That's not true at all, usually the CL-40 user is the shitter without any kills, then switches to it.

[muted condor]

Hold on let me compare completely incomparable games real quick

[half bramble]

the only i have agaisnt the cl40 is that getting hit with it feels more distracting than other weapons

[muted condor]

League of legends has AOE weapons that aren’t a problem so I think arc raiders should add more

[lofty venture]

Lol what, its a shooter, but I guess your not good at those so you wouldn't know the difference.

[muted condor]

Well league as shooting as well so same thing basically

[wild zenith]

make the damage falloff purely based on horizontal distance from center

[muted condor]

Just like how R6 and Titan fall are pretty much the same game and should take each other into consideration when making stuff

[wild zenith]

imo, cl40 should have slower projectile speed and bigger aoe

[muted condor]

They should just give it a direct hit multiplier

[indigo nexus]

The last update to it was a nerf

[indigo nexus]

Where is this sourced from?

[indigo nexus]

It has one. It deals 100 damage on direct hit, up to 90 from splash.

[muted condor]

The splash from the inner radius and direct hit are the same

It’s not a big AOE for full damage but let’s you shoot the floor

[indigo nexus]

I’m pretty sure that this is false, otherwise the main damage value makes no sense

[muted condor]

Unless they changed it recently then it should be about half a meter now if I remember correctly

[hardy dust]

I think its true

The inner splash zone can do full damage without a direct hit, but you need to land it quite close to their feet

An actual direct hit doesn't do anymore damage than that

[muted condor]

That’s my biggest complaint with the cl40

It’s kinda dog shit and doesn’t reward you for being more accurate

[violet solar]

i think its an okay gun but it can be a little annoying when i kill a medium player with a dagger trick stab and they instantly swap cl40

[graceful nova]

CL-40 is great if you like airborne and rooftop hacking plays. And/Or double movement medium

[inner pivot]

I don't really know what's going on, but if I'm ever having a really bad game I might switch to the cl40 and get like 10 free kills

[royal solar]

Make a sling shot skin for the bow n arrow. Ngl it would go crazy

[lofty venture]

Sounds pretty accurate. I have a friend that doesn't play shooters because he's bad at them, but if he's bored, he'll hop in with us for a few rounds and grab the CL-40 because the skill requirement is incredibly low he can hold his own. Give him a gun and he won't have a single kill.

I'm not 100% against having some easy weapons, but the bunny hopping bs and the fact they can kill themselves killing you and you don't get the kill for them suiciding is aids.

[sudden pewter]

CL40 is doodoo feces but it’s very easy to use. I’d certainly be on board with making it wildly inaccurate while airborne but if anything else is touched it’ll likely push it into the dumpster

[bronze pilot]

I always have much better scores with any other medium weapon except the 1887 and the shield.

[inner pivot]

Same, but if I'm having trouble aiming some days, I'll switch to the cl40

[sudden pewter]

Players having a better KD with the CL40 is likely due to its AoE nature and the prevalence of Lights in every gamemode. It’s an amazing flyswatter

[bronze pilot]

I only play it for challenges or for no-brain gaming in powershift.

[bronze pilot]

Any assault rifle destroys lights super fast without needing too much accuracy. I'm average so I play mostly the ARs and I do much better than with CL40.

[hardy dust]

Cl40 is just low effort and low reward

Its decent against lights but thats about it

It should stay mediocre but having more reward for skill expression (like 125 dmg on direct hit or smth) would be nice

[boreal laurel]

That’s also why flamethrower is so good RN, it’s not inherently strong but it does make short work of lights

[hardy dust]

Flamer isnt good but its pretty easy

Easy against mediocre players. I wouldn't say its good against light either

The lack of range on heavy makes it really hard to deal with any half competent light

[sudden pewter]

Very easy to use and I’d like to see the anti-bunny mechanic applied to the flamethrower

Fuck it, disable the damn thing while airborne for all I care or make the nose drag

[hardy dust]

Its already bad enough as is

Just reduce the visual clutter on it so you can actually see the person you're fighting against

[sudden pewter]

Yeah, I’m just an angry little goblin because getting Winched into a dome against a flamethrower user while using a minigun is a death sentence and I dislike that they’re allowed to bunny hop to avoid headshots so freely

Ultimately it’s a bad situation (on my end) and I’d like them nuked from Orbit but that isn’t necessarily fair when they used a dome CD and winched appropriately

[hardy dust]

Solution is to remove winch from the game

That's 100% on winch

Winch being a free, effortless kill is so goddamn stupid

[sudden pewter]

More like cutting my rev and the 0.6s stun at max range

Winch is a fantastic concept but its execution needs work

[hardy dust]

Give winch the stun treatment

Remove it until it can get a proper rework.

Its more of an issue than stun was and yet barely gets any proper nerfs

[sudden pewter]

Probably because of how intrinsic it is to Pro Play, I can’t see any other reason a rework hasn’t been done for so long

I mean Dash is in the same state Demat was where it overshadows the other options but hasn’t been touched either.

I’m hoping we see some serious work put in after the conclusion of the Majors, and going forward hopefully we don’t need to wait so long for meaningful balance changes

Also what the fuck is this

[tiny notch]

i don't like winch because it's a problem against all classes not just lights

[bronze pilot]

It's balanced and pretty useful for dense agressions when used with some shield. Not an amazing weapon anyway.

[bronze pilot]

This 👆

[bronze pilot]

It's more punitive against mediums than lights who can dash or grapple away.

[sudden pewter]

Winch is one of Heavies best tools to reign in hypermobile Lights

[hardy dust]

Dash is in that state because cloak got gutted and grapple has never gotten any buffs to make it relevant

Demat got buffs while heal and turret got nerfs/stayed unrelevant

The recent demat nerf + heal buff made the specs more balanced

Although a smaller nerf to demat and buff to turret would have been nice

Right now grapple and cloak needs buffs, dash doesn't need nerfs.

Winch is just flawed by design

Mesh is arguably the most balanced spec in the game right now, but because of winch its not being used much

[sudden pewter]

I mean grapple is good just more niche than Dash. Cloak is ass though

[hardy dust]

Cloak is better than grapple

But that really aint saying much

Both are terrible right now

[cunning slate]

Really?

[sudden pewter]

Grapple seems fine to me, but I understand Cloak is in a poor spot

[indigo nexus]

Cloak just doesn't work sometimes because people can often see you even when you're motionless

but aside from that it's alright

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cats-toby-the-cat-nod-yes-yes-yes-hooman-gif-17105827

Any jigglebones or things that sway on your model (like hair or clothes) still jiggle even when cloaked and that movement is super visible

[old flame]

you also can hear the cloak
don't even have to see it

[jade haven]

Good evening

[indigo nexus]

it's almost silent when stationary so that's not so much of an issue

it's always been very loud but it was still considered good at times.

does kind of come with a noob trap as players might try to sneak up on enemies while invisible, even though that is generally worse than doing so uncloaked

(people just won't hear crouched footsteps. Or walking footsteps if a gunfight is going on.)

[old flame]

just saying it adds up to its poor performance

[tiny notch]

winch + shak kills too fast to dash from

[violet solar]

this is even faster

[forest birch]

So did the cl40 get buffed why is everyone and their mom using it rn and why is it just now im realizing how aids of a weapon type the GL is

[rich wind]

how do i get the toss and resummon reload animation for the lewis gun? I couldn't find it in shop

there is also the same reload animation for the deagles

[indigo nexus]

No, its last change was a nerf

[sullen fractal]

ooh look at me i have a sheild that negates all bullet dmg by looking slightly to my right im so good at this game you guys

[cunning slate]

have you tried advanced violence on a sheild user?

[boreal laurel]

The screen where you customize each weapon’s animations should let you buy them from there

[gloomy plover]

hit them with a power move and get inside the bubble

[rich wind]

Yes but I didn’t see it there

[boreal laurel]

Oh right, I forgot--that one was from the S6 battle pass (maybe S7)

[sudden pewter]

That’s from S6 iirc!

If it doesn’t show up in the list it’s currently unavailable (meaning it’s in one of the more recent seasons)

[old flame]

it was in s7 battlepass
if you really want it gotta wait till you can get it from legacy bp (aka s10)

[sudden pewter]

Oof, one off 💀

[sudden pewter]

I’d like to see the XP(light gun not experience) soft reworked. iirc they made it a faster firing M11? It feels too similar but weaker. I’m pulling this from my ass because I’ve only used it for 2-3 games recently but it didn’t feel as good to use as the M11 and it needs some something but I don’t know what

XP should be looked as as well though, lots of gadgets take an insane amount of time to rank up

Maybe I’m just using it wrong? If I wanna play cheek to cheek the M11 is ideal. If I want some range, ARN. What’s the ideal scenario for the XP?

I don’t want to write off the gun till I’ve exhausted every possibility it’s just a skill issue

[modest lynx]

Its literally The arn with less ammo if used "correctly" I think they honestly need to give it some ammo back and shorten the tac reload and it could honestly be a decent flexible option for close-Mid range 10-29m fights

[violet solar]

you know whats crazy if you shoot the riot players feet they cant block it, i know what your thinking there feets covered but its only visually covered your bullets will still do dmg its stupid

[hardy dust]

Either a very small range zone in midrange (so basically 0 niche), or simply ease of use

It has nothing going for it except for how easy and straightforward it is

[sudden pewter]

I mean its definitely easy to use

[tiny notch]

riot shield is in a horrible place rn lol

was watching a killcam and it looked like they were just shooting straight through the shield, landed every shot

something they did at the beginning of s8 fucked with the collision

[bright oracle]

Been having trouble hitting my shots with the LH1.

Not sure whats happening, I can hit my shots with any other semi-auto, but not that one for some reason.

Feel like everything else shreds me faster than I can hit my shots.

[violet solar]

Lh1 has a lot of visual recoil but not much actually recoil meaning that it doesn’t actually move your aim much it just looks like it does only the last few shots in a mag have high recoil just use it in practice range and you’ll get used to it

[supple nova]

what was the change with the riot shields walk animation while shield is up?

does it affect it at all in a good or bad way

[sacred cypress]

Is toggle to sprint not working properly for the controller players?

[tranquil nova]

stim for light? thoughts?

[stiff vine]

next nerf will lower the BFR's damage to 49 because you can combo it with rpg

[sudden pewter]

No.

[slow linden]

Bone dry

[vocal star]

Do you guys feel that there is a need for using defib in solo q matches? I play medium and rarely play with people I know so it’s kind of unpredictable what my solo q teammates will do. I’m thinking of maybe switching defib out for goo grenade.

[sudden pewter]

It’s nice to have but isn’t absolutely necessary. A good goo could prevent a death where the defibs help recover from a death.

[vocal star]

Sweet. Thanks.

[crisp inlet]

The game literally died because the majority of the weapons are annoying and light by design is the embodiment of everything that can be annoying in an FPS but Im just being irrational now

[violet solar]

yeah im expecting it to get nerfed very hard to the point its not even worth using

[indigo nexus]

@lofty venture where does the claim about “ARC devs facepalmed” come from?

(also, most hated event? according to what? I saw mostly positive feedback)

[sudden pewter]

My most hated LTM is the botched Infection gamemode from October, nothing even comes close

[tiny notch]

first good take

[silk cargo]

@native flame i def agree that winch needs some nerfs, its a lil busted rn

[stiff wigeon]

whats like top 3 light guns rn?

and ig light gadgets as well

[native flame]

93r, M11, ARN imo

for gadgets gateway, infuser, and either vanish or glitch

[stiff wigeon]

is xp any good rn?

or i guess i should ask what weapons are just absolute unusable rn, cause i get the feeling most are pretty balanced

[silk cargo]

I like it a lot still

[lyric jackal]

a support nullifier would be sick. you could save your teammates from death, and you could send them in while invincible to set off enemy mines and generally break through all the camping strats like turret mine spam

[eager wasp]

xp isn't good, it can be usable but its by no means meta

m26 is good maybe not the greatest for this long range poke meta, db is fine/annoying. tks annoying/okay, dagger unusable/bad/horrible/worstweapon/gambling/bad, sword is bad/usable/annoying, bow is okay, sniper is okay, is that all the weapons idk, the things that are annoying are like, lower elo metas type deal

[unique swallow]

Nerf CL, this shit and damage is so dumb

[analog pewter]

Nerf indirects, buff directs :)

[clever lion]

the xp is mainly just an m11 that trades time to kill for not garbage damage falloff

[eager wasp]

xp has fallen off hard, its just nowhere near worth bringing at any point

[tiny glen]

and easy recoil

[potent scaffold]

Throwing knives, sword, dagger

[potent scaffold]

Hot take remove it

[wild zenith]

matter is better in ranked than wt

the gun really benefits from having a competent teammate that can demand attention and split aggro

[hardy dust]

93r, arn, lh1. Gateway, h+, glitch, goo

[wild zenith]

m11 is the perpetually "just below meta" gun

[hardy dust]

M11 is pretty decent and could honestly be swapped with lh1 for top 3 imo

Depends on map and teamcomps

[wild zenith]

i wanna play close range every map 😢

[hardy dust]

Sentenced to kyoto

[wild zenith]

kyoto actually feels pretty decent with short range now after the rework

the standard issue map, at least

most cashouts are indoors

even in the suspended structures you can fuck shit up with a good gateway

yo imagine if they added up down left right kyoto and JUST for that mode they reverted it to the old version

[brisk wagon]

Too much trolling potential

I would actively be putting my teammates in danger for the shits n giggles

[wild zenith]

what if teammates could cancel the effect early at their discretion? Would it be overpowered?

[brisk wagon]

Idk I just like pissing ppl off and it's the first thing that came to mind when he mentioned nulling teammates

[wild zenith]

oh so you are an agent of chaos

I think a lot of the playstyles could be changed to be more coherent

like assassin is awful. Why would you need cloak AND vanish bomb?? and throwing knives has antisynergy with invis

Im thinking like

Duelist: M26 Matter, EDash, Nullifier, Smoke Grenades, Thermal Vision (if it ever comes back)

The whole loadout is centered around being as evasive as possible, it has a coherent theme

Assassin: SH1900, Cloak, Gateway, Breach Charge, Sonar Grenade

All the gadgets help the user get the drop on an enemy and ambush them

Scout might be better with ARN because its a little weird to have a sniper in a feature intended for beginners

replace strategist goonade with a pyro or explosive mine literally why the fuck do you need goo gun and goo nade

did real humans make these???

[bronze pilot]

Please add a fun Ospuze skin for the Famas !

[indigo nexus]

What do you think about the V9S?

[white hearth]

Any updates on thermal vision?

[sudden pewter]

No, there will be no progress made on it until the conclusion of the Majors

[white hearth]

Well, I have an idea if anyone in here would like to spread the word, but it would be pretty neat if we replace the thermal vision with a type of heartbeat sensor just a thought l.

[sudden pewter]

Recon Sense was removed from the game entirely due to how powerful it was. Feel free to elaborate but understand in this channel you may receive criticism(constructive or otherwise) and will need to defend your position

[indigo nexus]

How would that work? Any form of wallhacks I don't think is a good idea.

[sudden pewter]

How would he be different enough from but not overshadow sonar grenade

[tropic halo]

s

[sudden pewter]

Keep spam in #⚡┇the-finals-chat
35 messages isn’t a big ask

[vapid spire]

ooh

[unborn stream]

Guys help idk which one to buy. The flame fusion sr84 skin or TGM final form skin IDKKKKK HELP MEEEE

[sudden pewter]

TGM skins are time limited, so I’d suggest that one

[hardy dust]

Too low range, doesn't really have much going for it compared to m11

Its basically m11 but slightly worse

[indigo nexus]

This is curious to me as my view is opposite, but the vast majority of people take a similar stance to you.

The comparison to me for the V9S compared to M11 is pretty much just:

• much better range
• faster reloads
• bigger mag
  - slight ttk disadvantage (without quick melees)
  - tap fire (some people might find it harder to aim?)

And I guess you could add:

• slight burst damage
  - slight consistency disadvantage

[sudden pewter]

I genuinely hate the V9S, I dislike its semi-auto(?) “fire as fast as you can click” mode, it feels awful and I can’t figure out its niche while using it

[robust snow]

@sudden pewter sometimes the sights help but the best thing to do is strafe hipfire

[analog pewter]

they should turn the thermal vision into an optic only usable on shotguns 🤣

[wild zenith]

p90 might have better hipfire accuracy than m11

[jade laurel]

Blunderbuss when

[fathom pecan]

hi

hi

[indigo nexus]

To me it doesn’t seem to make any negative difference, any awkwardness it causes seems to be outweighed by its super low recoil

[full flax]

Wake the fuck up

[brazen mango]

V9 drops off like a rock TTK wise at 12m

Goes from 4 shot to 7 shot on a light from 10m to 12m

[indigo nexus]

Well, so does M11, but worse

[indigo nexus]

5 shot

at worst it's 6 shot at 15m

[brazen mango]

It doesnt take up to 15m to move the breakpoint to 6 or whatever the max amount of bullets is

[indigo nexus]

it takes 14m, yeah

the point is that the falloff comparison between the guns looks like this

V9S range scales by virtually the same pattern except it levels off a lot sooner

[sacred cypress]

Give an emarald shak 50 next season that would look dope

[versed finch]

V9S needs a buff. I love that weapon but it hasn't been adjusted in forever, which is starting to make it less competitive when other light weapons are getting buffs

[lunar hare]

Flash nade, but with proximity activation and louder

[slow linden]

Give heavy the XM25 punisher grenade launcher

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-urge-resist-cat-gif-25536160

[slow linden]

That guy is poo

[slow linden]

Gang wants an automated stungun

[hollow girder]

(messaging to level up to create a vc. Ignore me. sorry but it's a silly rule.)

[sudden pewter]

It’s to prevent spam, with how frequent bots and bad actors appear it’s a relatively understandable measure. Your requirement is 35 messages and it is far from a big ask

[ruby dagger]

shak W

[sudden pewter]

Yeah Shak fucks

[ruby dagger]

+winch hehehehe

[slow linden]

As a heavy main I honestly hate winch,hate using it,hate fighting it even though I hard counter it in a 1v1,it's just cheap and gross,on paper some can call it balanced,but I will only see it as the tumor that gets heavys weapons nerfed,only further encouraging its use and a boring meta that forms around it

[ruby dagger]

damn why so pessimistic 😭
winch and ShaK is my love language

professional light deleter 😈

[slow linden]

Goo gun and any weapon are mine

They nerfed Sledge and sa12 around winch rather Than nerfing winch,so now the average player has no choice but to use those weapons with winch,excluding Sledge if you're a goo god,but have you ever tried using sa12 without winch? It's mediocre,and kinda ass at times

Always leaves them on 1 health somehow no matter the class unless it's inserted into the ribcage via winch

[slow linden]

Deleting lights is great and all,but I prefer rage swapping to cloak DB for that

You make a toxic light even angrier when you diff them

[ruby dagger]

lol

[analog pewter]

make its hipfire super tight even while moving

[bleak osprey]

how to master fcar

[hardy dust]

Get the recoil down

Its a pretty simple weapon so there's not much to it on its own

[bleak osprey]

wbt pike

[hardy dust]

Learn how to take fights at longer ranges, since now that its gotten nerfed it can lose easily in close-midrange. Although im not that proficient with it so I don't have too much advice to give

[bleak osprey]

but holy shi man pike is so much fun to use

[shell sonnet]

gonna take the oppertunity again to ask, what do we do with winch?
any ideas?

[ivory crater]

You can use it to pull people and the cashout

I don't main heavy so that's all I know

[shell sonnet]

oh no, i mean reworks

[ivory crater]

Yeah I got no clue sorry lol

[sour owl]

guys, when should i use the ARN as a light player, and when to use m11?

is ARN Worth it?

[inner pivot]

I hope they add an eclipse shade skin for the ARN. It'd look sick

[inner pivot]

Do you just completely hate winch or hate it because of what's happening around ot

[slow linden]

Turn it into a rope tool gmod style

[indigo nexus]

I just can't imagine this idea working well, even though it sounds cool

[slow linden]

I hate what it causes,it's just kinda meh on it's own,it's existence hollows out heavys weapons because of nerfs to weapons that synergize with it,further encouraging it's use as a crutch,cause now after nerfs there is little choice

[slow linden]

This is a fair criticism,but imagine,you get 6 ropes,you get to tie any two objects or players together with it,the first click ropes it to your hand,the second to any prop or player

[indigo nexus]

to do what, make tripwires? Clone a lockbolt?

[slow linden]

It would essentially be a manual lockbolt that you could also use to just pull cashbox wherever the hell you wanted

Or kidnap people from two different teams and force them to fight each other

Or tether an enemy to a teammate but I am kinda iffy on that because throwing randoms would probably use it to grief

[indigo nexus]

I'm sure players will love being tethered to random things constantly

but using it to pull the cashout sounds awkward with how the idea was presented

[slow linden]

It would tether the same strength as a lockbolt

I think it will be less frustrating for the average player than winch,and honestly it might have less pick rate than even winch,that said I think it will be really fun to use

[inner pivot]

I feel like that would make it very situational. One of the best parts of winch was that you could use it super easily whenever

[slow linden]

I mean situational isn't bad per se,plus if you chain opposite teams that would be a good way to distract or displace enemies,you could tether someone to one of those big crates,you could tether someone to yourself and drag them away from steals,you could drag the cash box away

[indigo nexus]

For a gadget it can be justified, but a spec? That’s a core thing you should be able to get utility out of in almost any kind of fight.

[slow linden]

What if instead of six ropes you had infinite

[indigo nexus]

I… don’t think this makes it much less situational

[slow linden]

True

[sudden pewter]

ARN is mid/long range
M11 is for fart huffing

[slow linden]

However it wouldn't have to be a spec,it would be used in a similar way to winch,just with a higher difficulty curve,I'd be happy with it being a gadget and we just get an entirely different spec,like a destruction spec similar to cns but instead you lock in place,rip a chunk of concrete out of the ground and throw it at your target every 8 seconds

[indigo nexus]

So it truly would be lockbolt 2.0

that idea again, I can’t think of a satisfying implementation.

[shell sonnet]

id rather have 3 distinct flavors of lockbolt than winch

[slow linden]

More like 1.5

[indigo nexus]

And I’d rather just remove winch and not add the lockbolt flavour, if that had to be done :p

[slow linden]

Or 2 and a half???

[slow linden]

The flavor is delicious though

[indigo nexus]

then replace the old one

but frankly I think your idea is a more poorly designed implementation of the lockbolt

[slow linden]

Lockbolt would still have valid uses,replacing it would feel like a nerf

Lockbolt cannot drag cashout on its own

[indigo nexus]

It doesn’t make much sense that the ropes idea could either. The cashouts are supposed to be too heavy for a contestant to move significantly with their own strength

[slow linden]

Lockbolt isn't sustainable for multi team fights,Lockbolt doesn't efficiently compliment certain melee setups even though it's the best thing heavy melee has gotten since winch was added

[indigo nexus]

if a heavy dragging it with a lockbolt barely budges it then dragging it with anything else probably should too… not that that stops winch claw :p

[indigo nexus]

And so it shouldn’t be, it’s a powerful gadget much like RPG

But I never run melee without it

[slow linden]

Winch claw effortlessly yanks cashout around

[indigo nexus]

If you want a general lockbolt buff then sure but I am not sure that would be a popular idea

[indigo nexus]

Yes, it’s a bit weird

It’s a fairly common sentiment that it would be good if that capability was nerfed, as dragging cashouts out of their intended fighting zones arguably degrades the map design and the pacing of combat

Indoor winch-based steals are fun, though…

[slow linden]

It's literally the best thing about winch claw and the only reason I don't want it removed,if that capacity for moving cashout were on a much more cumbersome to use but more sustainable gadget or spec then winch claw can go bye bye

[faint steppe]

Is it? I haven't seen a lot of complaints about it tbh. If anything most people seem to like the utility winch offers but hate how strong it is in fights.

[slow linden]

I like "degrading the map design",I thought that was the whole point of the destruction or making the cashout an object that can even move at all,if they didn't want us to move cashout they would've bolted it to terrain or foundations

Also while we're at it bring both goo ship and nukes back,not the red barrel ones those were silly but the other ones were honestly fine to counter and play around

Now if I do so much as strap a single c4 to a flower pot it flies sideways

[shell sonnet]

still preferable to our current predicament imo

[fallen shale]

Are weapons like sniper or dagger worth mastering?

[shell sonnet]

for the fun of it?
yeah
does come with downs too ofc

[fallen shale]

Say I want to try and rank up. Is being really good with sniper as benefical as being really good with arn?

[shell sonnet]

i thus far remain on the opinion that its better to have 1 bad item, that the user can choose to swap off at any time, than it is to make everyone else suffer (while being unable to force an enemy to swap) to make 1 person have more fun

[shell sonnet]

no, its not
im not even sure if sniper is viable unless you hit all heads

[indigo nexus]

No, the map’s supposed to be destroyed. What it’s not built to be is subverted. All the nuance of the design of a building containing a cashout is largely wasted when the cashout is yanked out into the open.

It’s supposed to move, but I don’t think that the ease at which you can translate it out into open areas is good for variety, at higher levels of play. Because that’s what you always want to do with your cashout.

It’s part of why winch is basically mandatory, both to pull this strat off and to counter it

[slow linden]

I don't want to yank it out into the open,that's for roof campers and dopamine fiends with peeled rat kidneys for brains wait fuck I said roof campers twice,anyway I would instead pull it from building to building,or maybe from a big room to a small room for a better defensive position

[indigo nexus]

I think we take the same ethical stance on this matter but our applications of it are going to be biased by our personal opinions.

[indigo nexus]

Sure, but if people can then they will.

Open cashouts are just harder to attack, typically

[slow linden]

And I'll simply push the roof and kill them,then take their undefended cashout,you think just because we're in a poke meta that they're immune to having the entire rooftop set on fire after a blanket of goo is spammed at them?

[shell sonnet]

always will be

[indigo nexus]

…okay, but I don’t think this has much bearing on the point of the debate

[shell sonnet]

you cant just compare the almighty goo to the average players approach

[slow linden]

I am a shit goo gun user and goo gun spam paired with Pyro nades and flamethrower works on roof campers 98% of the time

Truly I could be a lot better with goo gun but I haven't been using it a lot this season,and I didn't play at all last season because the battle pass was garbage and for some reason only sweats played last season it felt literally unplayable

[gaunt lake]

I would love to see a sticky nade

[topaz nimbus]

anyone know how to turn off recoil? is it even possible

[indigo nexus]

"turn off recoil"? What?

[night ibex]

Are the devs planning on adding new specializations to the roles or just weapons and gadgets?

[sudden pewter]

You can’t without the use of third party tools or modded hardware. Either of which will result in a permanent ban.

[sudden pewter]

Yes, new weapons & specializations are in the pipeline. However Embark generally isn’t very communicative about new/upcoming content beyond teasers towards the end of any given season. Embark has also said they’re intending to slow the release of new weapons so that they can focus on balancing/reworking what we have.

[iron zenith]

wheres the guy that has a concept of a two handed sword for medium? I wanna see the concept again

[sudden pewter]

Check #1075060148004991067 (I assume that’s where you saw it)

[iron zenith]

@icy sparrow ur cooking with this i was thinking when you alt attack instead of holding it infinitely its like a deflect but instead its only moves bullets anr proyectile to the sides like a rpg throw at you gets deflected but it still continues thru you possibly hiting your teammates only for like 1 second the you commit to the overhead slash. you can also just tap the alt attack and forget about the deflect and go straight to the overhead.

me too man me too

[umbral stone]

Anyone else really struggling to play light rn? Been playing since season 3 with at least 80% of my playtime on light. This is the first season I’ve been able to consistently preform better with medium and heavy. Heavy especially feels like I’m putting in half the effort to get the same results with the bfr and winch. The healing, long range poke, and winch meta with guns that are much easier to use for the same or better results than their light counterparts is getting so frustrating to fight. (By that I mean the repeater and the bfr compared to the sniper or the bow).

[next agate]

Legit ive been pretty fine playing light. I usually play light build with grapple and the mac10 or whatever its called. Or i'll play heavy with the shak and winch. I wont lie playing light is a bit harder just because of the amount of health you get but i still think its fun playing light.

[fallen shale]

In higher ranks bunker strats, light is a support, proving height with gate way, healing with h infuser, and most importantly, glitch nades for dome and the occasional mesh shield. Plus, people are used to charging head first alone which doesn't work against meta or even anti meta team comps

[shell sonnet]

spear buff yippie?
do you know something i dont?
is there something to be yippie about?

same

[haughty mortar]

I’m a m11 spammer tejehehehe

[slow linden]

M11 is balanced,if you want to be annoying use p90 or roof camp with an mp5(that's the only way it's usable)

[haughty mortar]

Ye

[slow linden]

Or just play shak winch

[haughty mortar]

Fr

Imma stay on light tho

[slow linden]

I love when I'm playing minigun and someone can just click a button,turn my gun off and pull me into their team

[haughty mortar]

Ye and im also decent with the xp-54

[slow linden]

The Arn is just a better xp54 it feels,I stay away from ars and smgs personally,they don't feel whimsical enough for me I use all the silly shit and melee

My main build is goo gun flamethrower

[haughty mortar]

Doing world tour if one of them isn’t working for me I alternate between them (M11 and XP-54

I’m a pretty anoying light player because I use dashes

[slow linden]

V9s is probably my favorite ranged light weapon apart from throwing knives

[shell sonnet]

i wonder when theyre gonna do something about that

[slow linden]

Probably never,the whimsical are meant to suffer apparently

[haughty mortar]

Ye I used to use throwing knife’s but they got boring with me not getting headshots

[shell sonnet]

any ideas for it anyways?

maybe if theres a good idea, theyre gonna reconsider, not holding my breath though

[slow linden]

Remove winch,give us another spec,give us a rope tool gadget and or bear traps,cc should be hard to set up,not just a spec that you can fire off every 12 seconds and if you're smart guarantees a win if you target their heavy

Winch is killing heavy,soon it will cause shak to be nerfed too when shak is honestly fine on its own,just like how sa12 was before it was nerfed around winch and now it's still very good,but only with winch

Then flamethrower will be nerfed,then m60,winch only takes,it does not give anything of meaning,it is like meth,it's horrible for you

[slow linden]

Use them like dagger,they're just a better dagger

[haughty mortar]

Ok I’ll try it out thanks

[slow linden]

But instead of back stabbing the alt,dump it into the back of their head,it will 1 tap lights and I think mediums if they take any amount of prior damage

[haughty mortar]

K noted

[slow linden]

Also hitting two primary fire knives,basically one burst on a lights head will insta kill them

[shell sonnet]

oh, you thought you were slick and outplayed a heavy?
wrong
get stunned, get pulled into 3 people, get beamed

fun

[slow linden]

I cannot lock down an area with my minigun because if any part of me is exposed I can be winched,which completely stops my minigun,make minigun spin immune to stun honestly.

[wraith orchid]

You can taunt cancel with a sound, and you will be able to immediatly attack after (though you won't be able to run while the spinning animation "finishes")

[shell sonnet]

yeah but thats been a thing for a while, i thought maybe they mentioned a spear buff on stream and theres reason to celebrate

[wraith orchid]

that's still a massive buff, the lack of ability to react fast to a change in the playground is what was making spear so hard to play at higher levels

and I don't think we're getting anything other then that bug fix as buff for the spear until the major ends

[fallen shale]

why tf is everyone going turret

[fleet nimbus]

Fun

[wraith orchid]

it's meta, dummy a perfectly standing still turret with 40 dps makes short work of players that can move out of it's radius

[fallen shale]

i understand if everyone or even two people on a team are running it but if one person is using it in a team running an actual comp, its pretty frustrating

[fallen shale]

think this is the first time I heard people call turret meta

[wraith orchid]

i'm joking, it's pathetically weak, even if it received double damage and hp buff today, it would still not see much use, due to the many ways it can get countered

[manic basin]

demat my love

[tropic halo]

s

[sudden pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/856603795738722307/1425920121473470554/togif.gif

[elfin panther]

the cancel has been a thing for a while but until 8.9 after the cancel you were unable to primary or alt fire until the the animation would've finished if you hadnt cancelled, now after 8.9 you can immediately start attacking right after the cancel

[shell sonnet]

Odd, i wonder if they did that on purpose

[elfin panther]

highly doubt it

[elfin panther]

i mean it's possible, they're aware spear is ass, does not function without bugs, and it needs buffs but it would be very weird of them to buff it like this at this time of the season without even properly addressing it, especially when it would highly benefit from plenty of other much more normal bugs such as a 5 dmg buff on the primary, another thing that makes me think it's not intentional is that the animations are pretty fucky when you attack right after a cancel

[shell sonnet]

I hope theyre gonna add the single sweep m2 attack from heaven or else

[sudden pewter]

^

[elfin panther]

as a spear player that's not exactly what i hope, the main thing spear needs right now is a couple of buffs to the primary and maybe some dmg buffs to the alt fire, also it would be amazing if they'd remove the sprint cripple after a cancel as well, i mainly hope they remove the 3rd spin and make the cancel a proper intended function

[sudden pewter]

Praying they use LTM’s as a testbed for changes going forward

[shell sonnet]

Double jump event my beloved

[elfin panther]

one of the reasons i dont want this to happen is actually because the 2nd spin is the best one, the way the hitboxes are positioned the end of the 1st spin almost perfectly aligns with the start of the 2nd spin and if they did it like in heaven or else spear's dps would drop significantly

[shell sonnet]

They could adjust it ig
I just hope they do something

[haughty mortar]

BUAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[elfin panther]

they could, or they could also break it </3

everytime they touch spear it's like a gamble of whether spear still works

[spring spear]

i dont know, i keep seeing mediums in ranked run it and it makes no sense, even if you dont want to run healbeam youd get more use out of demat

[indigo nexus]

It was a consequence of the fix that made the spear get stuck after being winched

that same getting-stuck thing was what happened to spin cancel, because both cases are a spin cancel

[elfin panther]

literally every patch i go in practice range to make sure spear still works lol

[plush scaffold]

does the clicking on ctrl+alt+demolish skin of hammer be heard by others?

[sudden pewter]

Afaik yes

[iron zenith]

And it doesnt :(

[elfin panther]

wellllll, yea it's still ass, but hey it's somewhat functional now

[iron zenith]

Yes this man gets it

[elfin panther]

i would hope so given i've been playing spear in diamond

[iron zenith]

Yeah thats what they need to do remove the sprint cripple make the spin cancel an actual mechanic. Make the spin actually hit enemies inside it. Everyone wants to able to throw the spear but i want the weapon to actually work as intended

[iron zenith]

Same same lmao tryna get ruby with it

[elfin panther]

agreed, i think spear is actually such an interesting weapon i really dont think the spin should be replaced, if anything the throw could be an extra thing but idrc for that, i'd like them to remove goo no regs before an additional attack

[iron zenith]

Do you know how the no regs actually work? I can explain it a lil bit if you want

[elfin panther]

im very aware of how everything the spear does/doesnt work ye, thx for offering but ye, i've been studying this fucking stick for a while now

[iron zenith]

Hell yeah thats awesome

[iron zenith]

Wait omg you do spear videos im collecting all this spear youtubers like the infinity stones

[elfin panther]

lmao, yea i indeed do spear vids

i've been trying to be more active in the server so i can actually share my vids here myself 💀

putting my game/yt name in the server might help lol

[sudden pewter]

Keep anything beyond clips in #🌟┇videos-content and you’re golden

If you post every new video here I’ll have you keelhauled

[elfin panther]

well i'm aware, but you see, i dont have perms to post there yet lol

that's why i'm trying to be a bit more active as i said ye

[sudden pewter]

Really? There shouldn’t be a rank requirement afaik

[elfin panther]

'fraid there is, im close to it tho

need to be at least a rising star

[iron zenith]

I have to put my yt link on my discord profile like you too in fact imma do it rn. Also i subbed with notis on🙏

[elfin panther]

thx dear <3

[iron zenith]

Ofc we gotta support eachother out here

[elfin panther]

the spear freaks

[dusky field]

My Spear movement is so ass its kinda sad ngl

[cunning slate]

medium NEEDS a mag fed shotgun ASAP

[muted condor]

I missed all the spear conversation

[dusky field]

Pls not another Shotgun 🙏

[cunning slate]

nah, just ONE

[elfin panther]

you gotta learn to shmoove

[elfin panther]

it wasnt anything too crazy, i'm always up to discuss spear tho

shit's wack and needs buffs

[cunning slate]

you saying sledge is better, or that it's just not equal to the other weapons heavy has?

[wild zenith]

so why exactly is 93r considered the best light weapon?

[hardy dust]

Great damage (especially headshots), very strong burst damage, good damage per mag, very good range, good hipfire, and the fact that almost all other light weapons have more glaring weaknesses or are simply weaker stat-wise

It excels at almost everything without downsides

[muted condor]

It could use something small but after the last fix is definitely on par with the hammer if not better putting it in the top melee weapons

[elfin panther]

sledge is still certainly better, as is spear is currently still too inconsistent and to actually be on par with sledge you need to be so technically gifted it's insane, spear still rly doesnt win any 1v1s on paper if played well, an average hammer player can still very much beat the shit out of a very good spear

hammer has both the advantage of being better in terms of dps and also utility with destruction

[cunning slate]

spear can be destructive?

[elfin panther]

quick melee is faster, i'm not joking

the only util spear rly has is the inconsistent tech of moving the objective with the spear spin, but using it to stop steals is difficult and inconsistent

[cunning slate]

some people like the spin, others want to throw the spear instead. I opted to go for a fireaxe for a throwable melee weapon.

[elfin panther]

hard disagree, i main heavy melee and hammer is still just better, dont get me wrong spear is a lot better than it used to be and it certainly feels a lot more functional but the slow ttk and inconsistency hold it back a lot

[muted condor]

Spin cancel on spear makes it win 1v1s agains hammer if you dont Get fucked by hit detection

[elfin panther]

no, i tested the dps, it's not faster

[cunning slate]

Some people like the spin, others want to throw the spear.

[muted condor]

Anyone who wants throw has no idea how to play the game simple as

[cunning slate]

thats why I didn't say "other people" I said "others"

[muted condor]

Straight TTK yes but spear has range advantage and can usually land damage before sledge can

[elfin panther]

on paper yea, in practice not really, the range of the overhead and the range of the spin are incredibly similar, overall you lose, best case scenario you win only if you land first hit

the way to beat hammer as a spear is to use util, if you use barricade piercing then it's a lot easier to win, otherwise it's way too inconsistent

[muted condor]

My personal completely not bias melee tier list

Hammer/spear
sword
riot shield/dagger
dual blades

[muted condor]

The other way of if there’s a void near by

[elfin panther]

i mean, yea fling is a different story ofc

[muted condor]

The secret instant TTK

Iv never had someone throw me yet and im kinda sad about it

[elfin panther]

i've had multiple ppl try to fling me and every time i blocked the winch with barricade

[young cove]

Mg 42 would be a cool weapon or weapon skin to add

[polar cedar]

two round burst vector for heavy please 🙏

[exotic lodge]

Need more guns lowk, literally anything

[honest yew]

Spear swing + claw =death

[iron zenith]

wdym spear movement

[iron zenith]

dual blades are very good im tired of the slander theres like three or two dual blade user in ruby and ZERO riot users dual blades are super good

[fiery thunder]

<@&1012034066876473384> Very suggestive text here

Oh, and in other channels too

[honest yew]

Yea id rather have the option to throw the spear then do that swing bullcrap

[pure ingot]

Anything about throwing knives?

[strange jetty]

guys what gun works the best with goo gun

[eager wasp]

lots of things go good with goo gun if you are really good with it, main things i see be used in combo are goo gun and hammer, deagles, flamethrower

and one very odd person using mgl

[strange jetty]

how do you find auto guns like m60

[eager wasp]

you can make them work but youd have to utilize that goo gun heavily in order to justify not bringing something like winch