💣┇weapons-gadgets

[stoic garden]

probably not, but aint nobody breaking them, that's for sure

bro it could be used with grav cube to lock cashouts on ceilings lmao

[analog pewter]

so cool.....

[sudden pewter]

Being reworked atm to make placement easier

You can use a barricade as a stepstool to reach higher ledges atm, not sure how I feel about being able to place it on walls but I can’t imagine it would lead to anything insanely broken

[analog pewter]

just goo gun lite really
with the benefit of not being fire-vulnerable

[sudden pewter]

I mean, pyro grenades will bleed behind the barricade but it certainly won’t destroy the barricade itself

[analog pewter]

i need them to add a skin for the riot shield that's just a gladius and scutum

tho idk how they'd handle the window on the shield

[north flint]

The hat turns the whole outfit black and white, but some items are excluded which is the concept for this outfit

[analog pewter]

such a bummer that we cant get that effect anymore

[versed finch]

embark please help minigun

[sudden pewter]

I’m sure they’ll introduce a cosmetic with a similar effect

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-the-finals-skill-issue-gif-9109889277599560089

[versed finch]

everyone runs winch which literally disables the gun

[analog pewter]

if you're already spun up, you're still spun up after being winched
you don't lose much spin time so

[versed finch]

by the time i get it back up to speed, if they're running flame or shak, i'm already dead so

but then again, its a minigun, so i don't know what they could do if they even wanted to try and make it a bit better

The gun's performance is more centered around the gadgets you use anyway

[sudden pewter]

You shouldn’t be losing a DPS race against flamethrower if you’re landing headshots, which at winch range you should be getting easily

[muted condor]

Mini gun is a top 5 weapon fr

[stoic garden]

i dont think you even need headshots

[sudden pewter]

Generally you can also suppress other Heavies before they get in winch range

Anyone that doesn’t respect Minigun tends to die, the only contenders being Sledge & SH

[stoic garden]

if i get winched i generally just jump up and down to avoid their headshots sprays will performing mine

[muted condor]

Just C&S them

[stoic garden]

i play it with mesh 😢

also minigun has more dps than charge lol

[muted condor]

Bounce their goofy winch using ass through a wall

[stoic garden]

bounce on it crazy style?

[vagrant nymph]

THANK YOU

[sudden pewter]

Minigun is a very unique weapon, I understand not doing well with it before learning its intricacies

[muted condor]

Make them bounce on it crazy style

[versed finch]

i just picked it up mid season 7 so im not the best with it

[sudden pewter]

That being said once enough time has been spent with her she treats you right

[muted condor]

YOUR WELCOME!

[sudden pewter]

Success will come. Keep using the weapon to learn its ins and outs.

[vagrant nymph]

Definitely never use it in a panic that’s for sure

[sudden pewter]

If I’m beefing my KS shots I’m whipping her out. Accuracy via volume

[vagrant nymph]

Fr

[stoic garden]

yea reload is too punishing for that

[vagrant nymph]

Y’all got any tips on the KS? That thing has been getting me killed too much

[stoic garden]

you need to know what you're doing to conserve ammo

[vagrant nymph]

I see

[sudden pewter]

Reload whenever possible because if you’re caught lacking you die. Try to maintain a minimum of 10-15m between you and your opponents as it struggles in flick situations

[muted condor]

The best way to play the ks23 is to play the Titan

[vagrant nymph]

I fucking love the Titan dude

[sudden pewter]

Leverage 👏 It’s 👏 Demolition

[vagrant nymph]

Y’all prefer it sightless?

[sudden pewter]

Hell no, red dot

[stoic garden]

? i feel it kills best within 10 meter at most, decently comfortable tracking, and stuffing your opponents with 150kg of heavy and minigun is pretty good

[muted condor]

Of course

[vagrant nymph]

I find it definitely works best without a scope at all

And FUCK. QUICKSPARK.

[stoic garden]

minigun is weirdly one of the few guns i'm comfortable using at qm range lol

[sudden pewter]

I’ve lost the head on it before, not as bad as Revolver Irons but enough to annoy me

[vagrant nymph]

Anything is better than the irons on the revolve lmao

[sudden pewter]

Hold LMB type shii

[stoic garden]

exactly bro

no zoom makes the tracking easier lol

[vagrant nymph]

Oh on god bro

[versed finch]

Its amazing on Monaco and Bernal, but hard on Las Vegas and Seoul

Kyoto is 50/50

[vagrant nymph]

Yeah sucks on Vegas because of how enclosed that map is

[sudden pewter]

She’s a banger on Kyoto. Everything is made of paper and you can shoot from one side of a building through the other

Don’t stop shooting, even if you lose LoS you’ll chew through the structures

[vagrant nymph]

Dude I haven’t been able to play on Kyoto in DAYS

The rate at which it’s selected is so wack

Gotta try the mini gun on there next time it’s on

[versed finch]

i gotta say, if im caught out in the open reloading, im dead

[deep mason]

ks23 projectile hitbox has to be slightly bigger,fix bullet deviation after the 2nd shot when hipfiring even if u r not moving the bullet deviates close-mid range
Winch 5 damage doesn't help with most weapon combos and got nerfed with the ones it did like sledge,ks23 and bfr.
Ks23 needs to have 104 damage to compete with shak and minigun mid range but winch 5 damage breaks the balance for medium

[sudden pewter]

That’s by design

[versed finch]

ya, the gun is kind of balanced by the reload and accuracy

[sudden pewter]

The reload is the designated downtime for enemies to press the advantage 100%

[analog pewter]

Was playing with a homie on kyoto and the enemy team pulled out double Mini dome and I just straight up didn't know what to do, buddy is kind of new and our random fill was only okay

In retrospect I guess maybe going winch SHAK or something might have done the trick but it was so hard to even get close to either of them
Didn't help it was moving platforms

[sudden pewter]

Gravity Cube 🙂

[stoic garden]

does goo gun hard counter minigun

[analog pewter]

Soft at best

[stoic garden]

or does it enable the minigun user

[sudden pewter]

Minigun can destroy goo with relative ease

[analog pewter]

Goo does the best work against poke weapons and shotguns i think

[sudden pewter]

Minigun does its best with long exposure time to enemies, and goo prevents this, yes. But the minigun can:

• Shoot the goo
• Stay revved and wait for goo to break on its own

[stoic garden]

good thing i dont have school on mondays

[obsidian kayak]

2:22 for me too

[oblique crypt]

Goo can do well at escaping minigun though.

[sudden pewter]

I’m not working Tuesday-Thursday so I’m excited to no-life the LTM to make up for not playing since its release

Hopefully I get some Brogon time too since we’ve been meaning to play

[stoic garden]

spare the quick cashians the triple minigun

[deft swan]

Anyone have any tips for countering riot sheild beside aiming at the feet. They always diagonally charge me then when the get close I can shoot them when they swing their button, but they always kill me first

[oblique crypt]

Having a teammate with a different angle on them.

[sudden pewter]

^

[oblique crypt]

and being that teamate yourself if your teamates being targetted by one

[sudden pewter]

Your options are:

• Exist near an ally
• Don’t allow the RiotShield to close the gap
• Try to deal damage as the RiotShield player attacks (brief windows of opportunity)

[restive plover]

H

[finite agate]

tried spear for the first time, deadass if they just made its m2 act like the LTM it would be so much better

[muted condor]

Make it actually deal damage as well

[frank sorrel]

so pike now is x2 headshot?

[boreal laurel]

Yikes, I forgot how much of a pain it is to face a monocomp team. The other week it was triple sledge+winch+lockbolt, and today it was triple SH1900+dash+vanish bomb 🥲

[tawdry glen]

Triple SH could break the Geneva convention by just existing

[vagrant nymph]

I’m shitting my pants thinking about that

[dry hinge]

hi

[cunning slate]

College?

[finite agate]

holy shit a good reddit post

[muted condor]

That’s funny

[languid sage]

rework winch

[languid sage]

REWORK WINCH

Winch shouldn't be free damage for all weapons. Its such a crutch for heavy and its the counter for all specials. They also balance all weapons around winch claw instead balance the weapons.
Idea for a rework is instead of a predictable line when winching a player, instead it should be like winching a cash out and not have a predictable line for free damage. the player will be launched at you and the velocity will be determined how the player is winch, like if they get caught on an object. the player will not be stun and be able to shoot back. will be able to still isolate a player but not have a free damage. you should not be able to use precision weapons and close weapons with winch because its just good across the board. if they rework winch like this they would have to revert all the nerf winch has been delt and balance the weapon again.

[finite agate]

#👂┇game-feedback

[pearl swan]

5656

69

[analog pewter]

riot shielders before their weapon was made bearable to deal with

[muted condor]

Bearable? More like made completely useless on every level

Embark some how remove the shield from existing at all

[indigo nexus]

by “gamebreaking exploit” do you mean running diagonally

[vocal flume]

CL40 fixes this, its what i use, even on dual blade users 🙂

[analog pewter]

this is one of the nastiest setups I've ever hit someone with

[hardy dust]

"Gamebreaking exploit" and its literally running diagonally

Istg people who complain about any melee have such insane skill issues

[analog pewter]

i think they were talking about the hitbox of it being completely busted for a while

[hardy dust]

Wasnt that just servers being shit aswell

And at most it just made riot slightly annoying to fight against, not anywhere close to a real threat

It literally gets hard countered by just running in a straight line

[analog pewter]

yeah riot isn't a "real threat" in group lobbies but in solo queue it might as well be a hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby if your teammates are even the slightest bit uncoordinated

[hardy dust]

So would any other weapon at that point

[analog pewter]

also i think having near full coverage of one side of your player that you can point to the enemy while also keeping them in view w/o going into your actual blocking 'mode' is kinda dumb bullshit for knuckle draggers
like it's not 'broken' it's just fucking tedious to deal with. dual blades is shit but it's better designed in the fact it can only block while deflecting

[hardy dust]

Hell an actual weapon would do even worse to them

[analog pewter]

riot users love to act like walking diagionally is a super technical feat that justifies forcing everyone in the lobby to play the hitreg slot machine against them

https://tenor.com/view/jackpot-gambling-casino-gamblingcore-gamblecore-gif-16736222671743991054

[hardy dust]

Theres a bajillion ways to counter them and just blinding staying still and shooting center mass doesn't work people lose their minds

[analog pewter]

nobody is asking for that to be the solution big man

[hardy dust]

Like riot needs dozens of times more work than other weapons

[slow linden]

I'm being dead ass they nuked it so hard that people can shoot through the shield now

[analog pewter]

but when I shoot a motherfucker whose whole chest is exposed to me and the riot shield magically blocks the shots it wasn't even in the way to block, that's unacceptable

[hardy dust]

And people still bitch and moan about it because they can't be bothered to think slightly differently

[analog pewter]

I'd rather it be unusable dogshit than unpalatable hell to fight against

[hardy dust]

Its already dogshit and always has been

[analog pewter]

learn dual blades like a man

[slow linden]

Deployed block doesn't work anymore,passive block works fine so just keep running sideways at people

[analog pewter]

it was usually dogshit that sometimes randomly made you invincible, yeah
and it happened often enough to be a miserable fucking slog to fight against. accept reality

things can suck and still be awful to fucking play against. usually game designers don't put those in their games

[hardy dust]

It never "randomly made you invincible" it at worst was a slightly disjointed hitbox, which more often than not, was due to servers being terrible

[analog pewter]

oh be so for real lmao

it would regularly block shots that were directly on the player model and the shield was nowhere in the way

[hardy dust]

Like it sucks to fight against if you're lobotomized but you can bother to learn to actually play differently and adapt

[slow linden]

Imma be honest I had zero problem countering riot shield unless I was using minigun or a poke weapon

[analog pewter]

this is completely sidestepping and avoiding the issue, nobody is saying they're uncounterable, you are making up an argument I didn't make

[hardy dust]

Same, and even then I never felt like I had anywhere near a losing matchup

[analog pewter]

you are being so dishonest lol

[hardy dust]

"Randomly made you invincible"
Your own words btw

Talk about being a hypocrite

[analog pewter]

yes because when I shoot a guy and his body is exposed and it doesn't register a hit because the invisible riot shield hitbox somehow fucking covered it that is practical invincibility
hence why i said "HITREG SLOT MACHINE"

yes, there are counters. but all the same if i have the opportunity to shoot the user, they shouldn't be FUCKING INVINCIBLE to that shot unless the SHIELD IS FACING ME

[slow linden]

The only thing that isn't fair to fight is something that isn't easily counterable or is just a straight upgrade of another weapon(p90 vs both of lights smgs)

[hardy dust]

Speaking of hitreg slot machines that's literally just melee hitreg 😭

[slow linden]

Fr

[hardy dust]

Like have you even bothered properly using any melee weapons

I doubt you'd see it the same way if you did

[slow linden]

Also the grenade launchers are inconsistent dogshit even when you take the time to learn them

[analog pewter]

i post sledge clips in here all the fucking time lol I'm fully aware

[slow linden]

The only weapon in the entire game with perfect hit reg is probably the flamethrower

[hardy dust]

It really doesn't

[analog pewter]

nah I have that shit go right through people half the time its awful
straight up watching flames clip through a guy and deal no damage

[slow linden]

Where were you going with this

[hardy dust]

Hitscans definitely have the best hitreg but servers still fuck up sometimes

[analog pewter]

I never said anything about fairness. I said the riot shield shouldn't have ever had a bug that made shots randomly not register because the shield hitbox was bloated to fuck. it made fighting the shield feel like a random chance minigame

[slow linden]

Perfect was a stretch but it's definitely got the best hitreg

[analog pewter]

best hitreg is model 1887 :)

[slow linden]

It being my main weapon I'm happy that it does,but the hitreg in general in this game is so ass

[hardy dust]

I'm not saying riot hitboxes were perfect, obviously they were disjointed. But im saying calling it a "gamebreaking exploit" or "randomly making you invincible" is a huge fucking stretch

[slow linden]

Medium shotguns are dogshit and have been ever since they've been both nerfed to uselessness

[analog pewter]

idk how shots randomly not dealing damage isn't "randomly being invincible" like that's textbook definition

[hardy dust]

Because its literally just the ingame model being slightly off

[analog pewter]

model 1887 claps cheeks, it's only a little rough vs heavies but it's the best cover-poking weapon in the game bc of its hipfire imo. you can play around angles so much more dynamically than any other weapon

[hardy dust]

Its not actually making it so they can't take damage

[analog pewter]

yes im aware of how video game hit registration works but from the attacker POV it is indistinguishable from if the target was invincible in that moment

[slow linden]

It can kill lights but that's about it,it's never winning a 1v1 unless you're fighting a gold fish

[hardy dust]

And from the riot user pov the shots that should've been blocked got blocked

[analog pewter]

can we please stop being pedantic about a rhetorical device that maps onto the UX clearly

[analog pewter]

i win fights with it all the time??? skill issue bro idfk lol

[slow linden]

It's okay for supplemental damage,and team firing on one guy

[analog pewter]

it 3-taps mediums and 4-taps heavies and it's barely slower to fire than the repeater while being WAY more mobile. like dude just use the demat and make angles, use goo grenades, it's really not hard to make work

[hardy dust]

Its just not great

[analog pewter]

it's not incredible but it's far from the worst medium weapon that's for damn sure

[hardy dust]

Yeah cuz riot and db exist 😭

[slow linden]

It's really mid,if it shot the slightest bit faster it'd be usable but an AKM can kill you before you can get a third shot off if you're both trading damage

[analog pewter]

I'd also take it over the pike, cerb, and even AK

[hardy dust]

Id take it over cerb but ak and pike definitely have more to it

[analog pewter]

AKM can only kill you if you're trying to sustain fight. like brother you dont even have to ADS with it, just shoot and duck around cover

[slow linden]

I'd take it over pike because pike is boring,I'd take it over cerb because cerb is worse and I'd take it over AK because AK is boring

[hardy dust]

Tbh the general balance for weapons is pretty good overall so there isnt much of a gap between worst and best, as far as guns go

Personally I love model but I recognize its not great

[slow linden]

If you want to use a shotgun you're just better off not playing medium

[hardy dust]

The only good shotgun rn is sa12

[analog pewter]

I think genuinely people just don't grasp that the model is a weapon you want to prolong fights with, bc if you can get an AK user to mag dump while you're behind walls 80% of the time then you win
it does need demat though

[hardy dust]

It Honestly can pair decent with heal since it does good burst damage, although you need to keep your heal and reloads in check

[slow linden]

Both of lights shotguns are good enough to outweigh health disparity,ks23 is mid but in the right hands it's like boxing prime Mike tyson

[analog pewter]

yeah its a good weapon for being a dedi heal, but you're mostly taking it because it's great at finishing

[hardy dust]

M26 is pretty decent, sh1900 is basically a worse version of it overall, and ks is just a shitty bfr unfortunately

[slow linden]

Revolver is the best pairing with heal beam for me personally

[hardy dust]

You can get a good burst to engage, swap to heal, then get a finishing burst

I like model with heal more than demat since you gotta think more about when to manage your reloads and heals during fight downtime

[analog pewter]

its hipfire is also why low grav is one of my favorite events. like haha fucker you get bloom while airborne? pity.

[slow linden]

They should just make the ks23 flash on headshots or something

You know the ks23 has flashbang slugs irl right?

[hardy dust]

They should gut winch and properly buff it 😭

[analog pewter]

it also has pretty disgusting range ngl
like for a shotgun it gets close to full damage at surprising ranges

[hardy dust]

110 damage, full accuracy even while ads, faster reload...

[slow linden]

They should make winch into a rope tool so you can just pull shit around with it instead of it being a guaranteed kill for you or your team every 12 seconds or so

[hardy dust]

They should do anything to winch that would change it for the better

[analog pewter]

i think for ks-23 they should do 105 damage so they get qm combo on medium and heavy but not light. i think that would be too much vs light

but with winch it becomes a qm combo on light

[hardy dust]

If winch is gone then qm combo on light is fair

[analog pewter]

maybe 104 damage so its only on heavy by default but winch gives it to medium and light

[slow linden]

Think about being able to drag the cashout across the map,or having to physically drag people towards you and fight their inputs,maybe being able to pull teammates the way old winch did for saves

[slow linden]

Winch needs this

[slow linden]

Heavy can be allowed to have more good weapons if this was how winch was

[hardy dust]

I think winch should have an actual windup so you can react to it, then let it have more range and cashout/map manipulation

That way it isnt unfair to fight against and has actual counterplay

[slow linden]

So basically what I said

[hardy dust]

Well not exactly

You can still hook players and stuff

But it actually has a tell and you can react and counterplay it

But it doesn't lose any map manipulation either

[slow linden]

I think it needs more map manipulation and hooking players should be like reeling in a fish

Rather than instantly pulling them into the lead maw that is your entire team

[hardy dust]

Well if it has a windup you can actually buff the range and cooldown

Honestly a mix of both ideas would be great

Just anything but current winch 😔

[shell sonnet]

what if winch lockbolted a player to you in a way?

(not sure about actual stats/strength, just an idea)

[slow linden]

That's kinda what I'm purposing,just tethering and SLOWLY pulling them

[analog pewter]

model + demat is just so fucking fun

[slow linden]

But a way stronger tether than lockbolt

Just single target and they can still just shoot you

[slow linden]

Fun? Sure. Good? Nah

[analog pewter]

it's not winning TGM but I think you can have success with it at most levels of play lol

[slow linden]

Tournament is the main gamemode I play

[analog pewter]

I'd run model in world tour fs

[hardy dust]

Honestly you can basically do well with every weapon in the game up to like diamond if you're cracked

[slow linden]

I wish they didn't nerf the cerberus so badly that it shot its fucking pellets backwards

[hardy dust]

And most weapons aren't that far off from the best anyways

[slow linden]

Genuinely didn't deserve to be nuked it was only annoying when defib chaining mediums used it

[hardy dust]

Theres only some niche exceptions like mgl that are truly really bad, but even then you can do well with them

[hardy dust]

It definitely deserved nerfs but embark just gutted it

Now its a bottom 3 med weapon

[analog pewter]

model will be top tier if and when a light-centric meta forms

[slow linden]

It didn't deserve to do 4 damage and shoot a majority of its pellets sideways and backwards

[analog pewter]

nothing even has to change about it, just the fact that it's a light deleter will make it top tier in that case

[void ice]

yeah at the heat death of the universe

[hardy dust]

I doubt that will ever happen tbh, and even if it did I don't think model would be good

If a light centric meta forms its probably because of a stupidly strong support option (like h+) or stupidly good ranged option

And if its a support option its not even light centric

[slow linden]

We're in a medium meta right now and it's fucking awful

[hardy dust]

I wouldn't say a medium meta but just a burst/poke meta

[slow linden]

I'd rather every team be light 3 stacks

[void ice]

which heavy and medium are best at 🙁

[hardy dust]

Too many good ranged options.

[void ice]

and sustain with heal ball and shield are so good

[slow linden]

Every team having smgs(p90 mainly) and a poke weapon? Yeah its a very annoying meta rn

[void ice]

yeah a full meta team comp can just fight forever i swear

[slow linden]

Fighting the p90 as a minigun heavy I'm starting to think the p90 is literally just a minigun with less ammo and none of the downsides

[pulsar ibex]

fire take

I out gun 90% of heavys with that thing

[slow linden]

Its honestly stupid lmao

They need to fix that thing

[smoky jackal]

it feel like a better m11

[slow linden]

It also beams from stupid far

[pulsar ibex]

yeah you have to be signifyingly better then whoever has the p90 or its wraps

[slow linden]

Not only is it a better m11 statistically but its also better by being on a class with twice the health

[smoky jackal]

and they have jump pad so you better look up

[slow linden]

Good luck Fighting it at all with light

[pulsar ibex]

I love dropping on ppls heads with it I cant even lieXD

[smoky jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/arriba-gif-12324188786972117417

[pulsar ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/space-marine-astartes-2-death-from-above-warhammer-40k-assault-marine-gif-10894909176709811816

did my gif shi its self?

[slow linden]

Luckily I'm basically always half spooled so 50/50 I get you in a team fight

[slow linden]

Embed fail 😭

[void ice]

i love how light was meant to be the "glass" cannon but theyre just glass at this point

[smoky jackal]

its because they removed lights good cc and turned it into something that makes no sense and then gave heavy 2 forms of cc then can run on the same build (winch + lock bolt).

[slow linden]

Well originally they were supposed to be hit and run,but then they gave light some of the best sustain damage rather than high burst low ammo and poke,so to counter that they gave everyone else things that are good at melting lights but terrible or mediocre against each other,the balance is just a mess all around

[void ice]

"we removed stun gun because its unfun to play against"

[smoky jackal]

adds winch

[void ice]

goo gun and lock bolt too 🙁

[slow linden]

To be fair it was

[void ice]

agreed but so is winch lmao

[slow linden]

Lockbolt is easy to counter,goo gun is hard to use effectively as a cc tool

[pulsar ibex]

bro ive seen some nasty goo gun flame thrower players

[void ice]

goo gun is not hard in the slightest, you point and click and they get rooted, just rinse and repeat

[smoky jackal]

lock bolt danging you off edges without a way to destroy it is kinda messed up though

[slow linden]

Look at my recent rants about my winch and you'll know I agree with you

[placid slate]

Nullifier would actively be better if you shot yourself with it than the enemy

[void ice]

lets hope the arc raiders balancing isnt just as bad

[void ice]

alternate fire idea

[slow linden]

It will only dangle you if they make a crazy ass shot or you get hit and then try to jump off the edge that's a positioning problem tbh,also anyone consistently lockbolting just one guy instead of saving it for team fights just has it out for lights tbh

[void ice]

it also hard punishes anyone out of position

[smoky jackal]

i wish i had the option to do either or, then i could acutally make thoughtful plays

[smoky jackal]

lockbolt into rpg to break the ground you are near yo dang you is pretty common

[slow linden]

It takes a sec to actually prime,it gives a lot of warning before that punishment

[slow linden]

And now they just wasted two gadgets on one guy,you die and your team wins the team fight unless they are bad randoms,in that case I am sorry for your misfortune

[smoky jackal]

2 gadgets to kill 1 out a 3 man team sounds worth to me, especially if that was a heavy or a m cause that removes a lot from their team

[pulsar ibex]

you get good randoms?

[slow linden]

I don't play with randoms at all

[pulsar ibex]

yeah thats smart

[slow linden]

There are no good randoms

Only the enemy gets good randoms

[pulsar ibex]

I get ranked games with 60dmg in a whole match rando's and sit there questioning life smh

[slow linden]

You must get your own good teammates

[slow linden]

I had an m60 heavy who had 0 damage

[pulsar ibex]

wth sorry for your loss

idk how that happens with a gun like that...

[slow linden]

This powershift game was alright I guess,the enemy was stinky but we won despite a teammate leaving

how the fuck did that p90 guy lose that tho

[pulsar ibex]

wait hear me out I run the heal beam while you mow them down

[slow linden]

I would love a dedicated heal beam pocket medium but no one in my group does that very often

[pulsar ibex]

I play overwatch so I like the 50-50 heal dmg gameplay

[slow linden]

You are either a Moira main or a kiriko main

I do not make the rules

[pulsar ibex]

no Im a flex player but my most played in sup is ana kiri bap in that order

[slow linden]

I see

I main ramatra and junk rat

[pulsar ibex]

nice I was messing around with junk in staduim earlier

his builds are goofy

[slow linden]

Would play venture if venture had a good skin,moveset is really fun I love melee and ranged combo characters

[pulsar ibex]

my most played is gengoo 🫠

[slow linden]

Who

[pulsar ibex]

genji

[void ice]

lucio on top

[slow linden]

You are not frogger

[pulsar ibex]

hes my 4th place after those 3

[slow linden]

Genuinely the only good lucio

[void ice]

i gotta be honest frogger is just a clip farmer

[pulsar ibex]

bro i got a staduim match with frogger and aspen on my team the other day

it was lit we rolled the enemy

[void ice]

doesnt compare to any proffesional players tbh

[slow linden]

I dunno he's pretty nuts man,he plays too much casual nowadays though

[pulsar ibex]

hes just not serious about it unless they have a widow XD

[slow linden]

My buddy got in a match with him and aspen not that long ago

[slow linden]

My favorite 😈

[pulsar ibex]

nice they are so chill and where using coms and everything

[void ice]

id think supertf would disagree he calls them the backline of doom

[slow linden]

Can't wait till they put ram in stadium

[pulsar ibex]

lol aspen was on tank when we played XDD

frogger was speed boosting me and her around the enemy spawn while we camped it 😭

[pulsar ibex]

ram would be lit but im kinda scared of 2 tap ram

[slow linden]

Be not afraid.

He is inevitable

[pulsar ibex]

its ganna be jq ability power build all over again

running through deleting ppl

[slow linden]

Zarya lifesteal build is scary

[pulsar ibex]

bro the fact that dmg speed and dmg power does the same thing for beam characters is crazy

you can make some nasty builds with it

[void ice]

tempted to play overwatch again and start climbing the ranked ladder

[slow linden]

Zarya is the only beam character that I can have fun on tbh

[pulsar ibex]

its not to hard to climb rn tbh not easy but def alot less sweaty

[slow linden]

The game needs someone with like a flamethrower or something

[pulsar ibex]

you know wuyang the new guy?

there adding his sister it was already confirmed in the cinematic for wuyang and she has flame powers

prolly not for a few seasons tho

[slow linden]

Hm,that's pretty cool ig

[pulsar ibex]

yeah muaga but with flame thrower

[slow linden]

Really wish bastion had a flamethrower,I love everything about him except that his primary is a boring old ar

[pulsar ibex]

they should do that for staduim,

turn him into shotgun bastion with one power and flamethrower bastion with a diff one

or maybe have a shift power change

[slow linden]

What if I bought both tho

[pulsar ibex]

thats what im saying just have one on his primary and one on his shift

imagine rocking up putting 4 buckshot into someone then pulling out a flame thrower XD

[slow linden]

They should really play around with bastions living weapon gimmick a lot more

[pulsar ibex]

they should play around with alot of dif ppl's gimmicks like torb for example

the evil bastions ult in mirror watch was pretty lit

stuff thats possible in the overwatch world but is completely kit changing

[slow linden]

Torb should definitely use more interesting inventions and have more options than "machine-gun turret"

[pulsar ibex]

FR

ok ima go play a few matches of the finals ttyl

[slow linden]

K

[slow linden]

I pioneered this btw

[warped talon]

How come the nullifier is considered bad? I would think turning a 3v3 into a 2v3 for a short bit would be cool, but the community doesn't seem to think much of it, and no pros use it either from what I've seen

[void ice]

why nulify when you can shoot your gun

[warped talon]

2/3 on you at once, stop a steal, or if you're using a melee weapon

Or to buy time to create a better situation in a 1v1

[void ice]

might be on to somthing

[polar cedar]

it’s good, just has insane competition (gateway, glitch, h+, goo and vanish bombs for melee builds)

[rose thunder]

Surprised to see 50% of heavies running flamethrower in world tour

[void ice]

fixed that riot shield would curve around and cover parts of the back *

[frail bronze]

The only part it blocks is in front of the player, or the part facing you (=charging you). Hope it helps.

[shell sonnet]

please dont add the deadringer to the finals 🙏

[frail bronze]

Riot shield needed better animations, not having its hitbox removed.

[shell sonnet]

also, congrats on green

[void ice]

now it does yeah

[frail bronze]

No.

[shell sonnet]

do yall have any ideas for cl-40 animations?

[void ice]

lmao

[shell sonnet]

my sincere condolences

[frail bronze]

After buffing it for no reason in s7 it was bound to happen. This is what always happens with melee in this game.

Embark isnt aware of tech

Buffs melee, dumbing it down and making it overly oppressive in lower ranks

Nerfs it beyond recognition

Rinse and repeat until the last melee is broken.

[frank sorrel]

Don't really miss those times, ngl
Glad to see a break from riot shield

[placid slate]

That's not what the deadringer is

[shell sonnet]

oh, right, sorry, it makes you invisible but still allows you to finish them off if their damage resist wears off
nullifier just makes you unkillable

[faint steppe]

It's not particularly bad but completely outclassed by more useful gadgets.

It definitely can be very useful but it benefits from having good communication and a team that can capitalize on the potential 2v3 you've mentioned. And most people have neither.

[shell sonnet]

just janking the box for free on its own can be huge, especially when plug money is a factor
stopping steals too

when theres cashouts, its useful

"oh no, there is a heavy here, i better get out of range in case he has win-"

[polar edge]

does Dual blades deflect melee attacks? or it just blocks a certain amount

[muted condor]

Technically it can block melee but it’s so inconsistent it’s not worth trying to pull off most of the time

[warped talon]

Very good point. I still run it over infuser at times but it definitely gets hard to justify in certain comps

[warped talon]

Yeah I'm definitely biased; my friend and I messed around with double sword + double nullifier recently. With our coordination we got some disgusting results lol

[tiny glen]

why do people play sword with grapple instead of dash

[warped talon]

Absolutely, and the perfect hip fire is nice for that too

[thick holly]

Funny enough, riot shield is actually broken in the other way now lol

Bullets just go through the shield despite showing the audio and visuals of blocking bullets

I still gotta play more to test it, cuz I've been playing heavy since the most recent patch

[thick holly]

It only reduces the damage of melee

[warped talon]

I've never heard of someone doing that, but ig you could make an argument for it

When you get a hang of the movement tech, sword can get you around the map at insane speeds. So if you run away with a grapple maybe you could just lunge back when you're ready to fight again?

Idk, I'd rather just win the fight to begin with by dancing around with the dash

[shell sonnet]

If cl-40 had a break action animation, would be this?

[warped talon]

(And the lunge ofc)

[shell sonnet]

Or this?

[tiny glen]

fair enough thats what i thought

[proper elbow]

I think it would break where the stock extends👍

[muted condor]

This one

That’s where it normally holds loaded round

[compact tundra]

If played well it makes your support centered play even better. I play grapple sword because if you get good enough at super lunging and chaining your lunges then you don't really need the dash, I swapped back to dash sword last night and found my self actually dying more because I didn't have a good get out of jail free card, or an option to launch myself across the room to close distance, it's difficult but you can just use lunge in most situations. That dash would work. But dash is still better for fighting. It used to not really be a thing because old super lunge was way more inconsistent, but with the newer way easier to hit super lunge it's not a bad trade honestly, if you have the skill to use its advantages

[tiny glen]

super lunge is just jump after lunge right?

[compact tundra]

Yea

[tiny glen]

fair enough

basically sword now has just same pros and cons of almost every other light weapon

i mean with grapple and dash

only dash is a must run for dagger

[indigo nexus]

Fun

[compact tundra]

Honestly I like grapple with sword more because sword isn't really great at fighting at higher levels anymore and grapple let's you really focus on support which is something sword now excels at

[indigo nexus]

That’s fair… though if you go high enough grapple stops doing much for effective evasion

[compact tundra]

Kinda, with sword you can lunge in and grapple out before they really even can respond, mostly good for statue and vault running. My grapple sword is most effective when I have 2 heavies on my team and I just keep them up and on defence all game

With this I can gateway them, I keep breach since I should be last alive in case I need to stall while rezing, and H+ infuser to keep them up. I just keep overwhelming the enemy with heavies and if they push a bad spot that I can flank then I help the heavies clean up.

[cunning slate]

More or less this one.

[shell sonnet]

Now that i think about it, peobably inbetween

Where the slope ends

[cunning slate]

Id look at how the potato launcher skin reloads.

[oblique crypt]

I do because I like Grapple and that's about all the reason I have.

[compact tundra]

I'm stealing that C&S idea for my own balance manifesto. Honestly having C&S be cancelable is pretty smart

[placid basalt]

What is the best fcar sight

[thick holly]

I thought it could already be canceled?

[sudden pewter]

Whichever one you like the best 👍

[timber sparrow]

Preference

[thick holly]

I believe I've seen Waterdance do it since she mains C&S

[sudden pewter]

C&S is cancelable, just not while mid-jump

Once you start the ground pound animation you’re locked in

[thick holly]

Ah okay

Sorry I didn't realize that's what was being referred to

[compact tundra]

I actually wasn't aware it was cancelable at all. I'll look into how it's done

[sudden pewter]

You just hit the spec button to cancel(PC)

[compact tundra]

Oh, that was gonna be my idea anyways, so I guess the only change I'm making is it can be canceled mid jump

[thick holly]

I only really use C&S when I try to play MGL, so I don't really know how it works too well lol

[sudden pewter]

C&S was the first spec I maxxed out for Heavy, infinitely useful

[analog pewter]

it is but the current jump cancel tech is finnicky at best and doesn't get the most out of the C&S speed

[shell sonnet]

but it just stuffs the "shells" down the barrel

[hoary sable]

k

[thick holly]

Alrighty

[thick holly]

Meanwhile I've been playing heal beam on medium like it's my main weapon and I still only am like level 6

[sudden pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/i-know-what-you-are-cat-sus-suspicious-cat-side-eye-cat-meme-gif-11842087146493734807

[thick holly]

Whar

What am I

[sudden pewter]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/735670248715583528/1210106888935448616/bimplyactvity.gif

[thick holly]

No?????????????????????

I'm just a furry that's it

[compact tundra]

Oh God my winch change and reasoning alone is 2700 characters over the discord limit

What is the reload speed of Goo Gun. It doesn't say on the wiki

[thick holly]

Dang

[compact tundra]

If I can't figure out the goo guns reload speed I'm just gonna change it to .8 sec and hope that's a decent nerf. Tho I think anything over a second will be too punishing

[thick holly]

I've been really liking goo gun

[compact tundra]

It's really good I just want to rework it into a healthier spot so it can be buffed in less spammy ways

[thick holly]

Yeah fair

For me I like it because I can still do similar things as the riot shield while playing heavy

[compact tundra]

Honestly the goo gun probably has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game, if you have the tech knowledge and wherewithal to use it effectively

[thick holly]

Mhm, I've been using it for impromptu cover

Just make a small tower of 2

[compact tundra]

Honestly I wanna take the time to try to master the goo super jump so I can become Norcommas personal sleep paralysis demon

[thick holly]

Goo super jump???????

[shell sonnet]

#⚡┇the-finals-chat and #💥┇spawn-point are this way

[compact tundra]

Goo Gun's only limiting factor is your technical knowledge and creativity. You can also use goo to fit through vents as heavy

[thick holly]

Oh yeah I've seen that

I don't know how it works but I wanna try it

[shell sonnet]

ive yet to pull that off
sadly shooting range and tutorials dont have vents to try with

[modest lynx]

Can I slide immediately after dash or is there a small cooldown

[compact tundra]

Me neither but I know the basic setup and I wanna see it I can make it reliably replaceable. Them Ill be the scariest flame thrower you can't see coming

[compact tundra]

You should be able to slide outta dash imc

[thick holly]

If you're available when I get home from work, we can start a private match and test stuff

[modest lynx]

I know after airdashes I can

[compact tundra]

I'm down, I get off at 6est today

[shell sonnet]

have you seen the clip of me leveling a floor with goo gun+nades?

[thick holly]

I'll probably be home at that time too, I gotta go to the store after work

[shell sonnet]

might be of use

[compact tundra]

Yes but that looks a little wonky and I run rpg + C4 so not much reason to practice it for me

[thick holly]

So like 7est is a good estimate for when I'll definitely be available

[shell sonnet]

also, i managed to push someone through walls with chuck (in heaven or else tho)
i wonder if thats replicate

[compact tundra]

That sounds funny as shit

I love letting them all build up on the camp platform and using C&S to break them like a pool opener

[thick holly]

I feel like Citadel would be the best map to test vents with, iirc it has a LOT of vents

[shell sonnet]

i mostly bait people on the main combat point by hiding behind goo where the jump pad lands

[compact tundra]

I was thinking that one spot on Fortune stadium with the air conditioners that the vault always spawns on. It's nice and open for testing

[thick holly]

True

[shell sonnet]

someone give me some niche goo tech/ideas to test
i feel desire to do bs

[potent thorn]

Grav nade and gooDNA spiral. Ekazoko has been on a roll with is and it’s just so funny

[thick holly]

Do you want meme strats? I have some of those lol

[shell sonnet]

no, potential tech
i wanna see what kind of dumb shit i can come up with

[shell sonnet]

could you explain?
will check them out tho

[thick holly]

You can place goo on map boundaries. I'm sure you could figure out something with that for some cashouts

[shell sonnet]

nvm, i know them

[thick holly]

Maybe you can do the anti-grav cube + goo gun with some outside cashouts with that lol

[modest lynx]

Im testing it and i think you need a jump or a sword slash in my case to engage slide immediately after

[shell sonnet]

ideas have been had
bs will commence

[thick holly]

Have fun, share with me what you do

I know that goo can be placed like that because in TDM I like to do that with sniper & grapple hook and confuse players as to where I'm sniping them from LMAO

Some find out quickly and I don't get many kills, but it's funny seeing like 3 players try to shoot at me who's like 20 stories up on some "floating" goo

[shell sonnet]

well, i wanted to lift a cashout with grav cube, then place 2 nades below it and suspend it beyond map boundraries
(assumed it sintended to fall and come right back)
but it can clip through

it did however, give me another idea

[thick holly]

Yeah I'm mainly thinking for those cashout locations that don't have falls, like some of the outdoor ones on Monaco

[shell sonnet]

well, there is this, easily shot for defence

not the idea i was talking about above

[thick holly]

Oh yeah another thing that my friend loves to do. You can surround enemy totems in goo. The other team literally cant get the totems

They either have to spend a lot of time breaking the goo, or the person who's dead has to coin

[shell sonnet]

dammit, you can push a cashout to make it destroy walls

[shell sonnet]

yeah, i like that tech

[thick holly]

Another one I just thought of but idk if it would work at all

Are you able to put someone in goo while they are on a zipline? That would be a really funny way to make someone fall

[shell sonnet]

i think you can actually
but i only recall a clip where the person keeps going, but the goo remains, floating, killing anyone that touches it by dismounting over the death pit

[thick holly]

Lol

Now that's making me want to do another thing I love doing. Putting an explosive mine directly on a zipline

[oblique crypt]

I believe there's a way to destroy the floor/ceiling with just the goo gun but it has a pretty long setup and only works on certain buildings/maps

[shell sonnet]

i think those may have been mine

[oblique crypt]

Here it is: https://youtu.be/IoS6b1huP98?si=4-uG17NtplAOApBj

Yeah it's similar I think

[shell sonnet]

nvm

i havent been able to get the pure goo gun tech to work in ages, but nades seemed to work

nvm, got it

cant make it reliable tho

[oblique crypt]

Nice

[languid sage]

REWORK WINCH

Winch shouldn't be free damage for all weapons. Its such a crutch for heavy and its the counter for all specials. They also balance all weapons around winch claw instead balance the weapons.
Idea for a rework is instead of a predictable line when winching a player, instead it should be like winching a cash out and not have a predictable line for free damage. the player will be launched at you and the velocity will be determined how the player is winch, like if they get caught on an object. the player will not be stun and be able to shoot back. will be able to still isolate a player but not have a free damage. you should not be able to use precision weapons and close weapons with winch because its just good across the board. if they rework winch like this they would have to revert all the nerf winch has been delt and balance the weapon again.

[warped talon]

Which specialization do you guys like to use KS23 with, and why?

[indigo nexus]

charge and slam because I cannot count on my aim.

If I miss one shot too many a backup is quite handy

[silver thunder]

goo is honestly really nice with any weapon that has good destruction like ks23 or sledge

you can get really creative with making and denying angles

goo stun is also handy if you can't consistently land shots with the ks23 since the damage is high enough per shot to compensate for time spent firing goo instead of shooting

[compact tundra]

Hey so I don't really play any mgl and I'm on the mgl section of my balance ideas. How could MGL be reworked/buffed to where it's usable but not meta. I don't think I ever really want a GL meta but I certainly think the MGL is too weak rn.
Same with CL-40, I have more experience with that one but honestly it's controversial nature makes buffing it hard without it eventually being nerfed again due to crying lights

[potent thorn]

Grav nade the cash out with you floating as well, shoot two goo towers in a circular motion building upwards, at the peak of the gravity, build a nest for the cash out. By the time you finish the grenade should be just about to end and don’t forget to put traps on it beforehand.

[compact tundra]

Also @analog pewter, your balance sheet made me want to start working on my own. And I've been meaning to do it for a while and I think I have enough of my balance sheet done to start sharing it. I really just started working on the balance section today tho and I'm at work so the pace is a bit slow. Also mines a bit of a balance manifesto so a lot more word dense than your balance change suggestions sheet.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vwapmPGxJ03NcFzN4qXryyR2CsW4AB6dnz5VBJMVIrI/edit?usp=drivesdk

[warped talon]

@indigo nexus @silver thunder Thanks for the tips fellas

[oblique crypt]

Goo gun, because I'm addicted

[warped talon]

So real, goo gun stays winning

Speaking of the funny weapons, what gadgets do all you sledgehammer enjoyers like most? Meta or not

On that topic I noticed my GOAT rubylabubu ran Pyro mine, rpg, goo grenade; would love to hear the reasoning behind that if anyone knows

[oblique crypt]

Anti gravity, I can break a hole in the ceiling and float the cash out up to me.

Then block the hole up with goo gun once it reaches the top

[analog pewter]

i updated the formatting on mine
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HHjAfTELum1Id4J6XCBnNWfKqJ8tXxDgaCpoTTD4uUY/edit?usp=sharing

[compact tundra]

Why the hell is yours so damn pretty, how do you do those tabs

[analog pewter]

I accidentally discovered this w/the use of headings i think, if you have a + [...] line under a heading it seems to automatically make a tab?

[stoic garden]

gotta make what embark wont ever read look good huh

[analog pewter]

or if you have a heading under a heading it also does that i think
it's hard to know, i lucked into it

[compact tundra]

Ima try that

[analog pewter]

it's got a new sheen of consummate professionalism that really gives the document a big boost!

[stoic garden]

🔥 i like it

[silver thunder]

my favorites:

dome shield is good for giving yourself more effective health, smokes and/or goo grenade are solid for cover from poke especially if you aren't running goo gun, RPG for breaking distant walls and some emergency ranged damage, and if the enemy is running a lot of gas to deny your entry you can swap to pyro grenade to clear it faster

c4 is also just baller in every loadout

i'd suggest lockbolt but i find the way it slingshots people to actually make me miss more than it helps

sledgehammer plays very opportunistically so anything that can give you cover and help you play defensively until you can push is great

[compact tundra]

I will say, tho I like your winch ideas, and I'm probably stealing the chain rattling noise idea too, I don't think your changes address what is in my opinion the biggest thing keeping winch the defined meta. The fact that winch counters it's own competition, winch hard counters mesh and soft counters C&S. So even with your nerfs, C&S and especially Mesh shield would still struggle in higher Elos unless the nerf completely kills winches viability.

[analog pewter]

Goo Gun, Anti-Grav Cube, Barricade, Lockbolt
swap cube for RPG or dome depending on circumstance

[silver thunder]

dome shield is a must pick in almost every heavy loadout imo, it's so versatile

[analog pewter]

i am about to say something that may be sacrelige
but i think this game would benefit from omni-sprint/slide like black ops 6/7 have

i loooooove back sliding i loooooove it

[silver thunder]

i mean, there is omni sprint, it just has a speed penalty

[analog pewter]

wait actually
how did i never parse that

[silver thunder]

and you can back slide if you jump then turn around

i like to slide backwards down staircases while i turn to take a fight, almost always gets you an advantage in duels

[analog pewter]

i did know that, sprint storage is a hell of a drug

i didnt realize there was a sort of back/side sprint. i guess i just kind of tuned it out since it's probably such a default feeling

[silver thunder]

yeah, with how tight the turn radius is, its almost always better to just turn your whole body and sprint

but it's definitely there

i've noticed you can also sprint at reduced speed while using the healing beam, enough to slide

[compact tundra]

You can also apparently slide backwards if you have enough momentum

[stoic garden]

indeed you can

[west hamlet]

Anyone got like a list of what was used in the majors?

[compact tundra]

@shell sonnet, can I DM you. Me and Mscoaster think we found a new goo tech

[analog pewter]

can you also show me the goo tech

[compact tundra]

Can I DM you, we want to keep this a secret at least for like a day or two amongst the goo group. Idk if it's new but ive never seen someone use it before

Exclusive, very prestigious tech hopefully.

[modest lynx]

I need this, idc how much i must sacrifice to know

[compact tundra]

Dirty yellows asking for handouts, tsk tsk

[modest lynx]

I wish to know the dark magic great red role

Show me the contents of your grimoire and my everlasting soul will be split among your many shareholders

[modest lynx]

I will conquer lost lands for this forbidden knowledge do not withhold this from me, for I won't tell a soul

[modest lynx]

Name your Price, Great Sorcerer of Velocity

[compact tundra]

You beg well, you can know. Are you good to call atm or at minimum join in game

[modest lynx]

I can join at your beck and call Great Sorcerer

[modest lynx]

But yeah im free rn

[compact tundra]

I'ma add you to a group chat

[modest lynx]

Massive

[slow linden]

Give this to heavy

[polar edge]

Made me realized that even if they give us an option to choose your reticle color

[slow linden]

They did

[polar edge]

it is so difficult to find the one that doesn't blend with the map.
i was like "oh maybe pink or magenta" and the finals be like "BITCH THIS IS A GAMESHOW, WE GOT NOZOMI AND SYS WITH THE PALETTE OF PINK AND MAGENTA"

[slow linden]

Green.

[polar edge]

FOLIAGES

[slow linden]

It's lime green

[polar edge]

it works until you look at something bright (emissive) that a color too bright will blend the color

[compact tundra]

I use gold yellow and it works pretty well

[polar edge]

currently im thinking of using this but it still blur some areas

this problem right here annoy me the most since it feels like it blurs the reticle

kinda wish they give us "negative" color reticle

[slow linden]

Minecraft has one funny enough

[polar edge]

yeah, we need negative reticle fr

[warped talon]

@silver thunder @analog pewter Cool thanks guys!

[warped talon]

What specialty do you use? Goo or winch?

[analog pewter]

ya

btw I kinda wish they'd do something like this with the shotguns; a damage floor, essentially a minimum amount of pellets that will be counted. So you get a flat amount of damage guaranteed on even one pellet, but you deal the same damage up to say, 4 pellets, at which point additional pellets start counting.

It could help shotguns feel more consistent and shave away edge cases where an enemy's animation shifting might cause pellets to miss on an otherwise good shot

maybe not with the SH but with the cerb, matter, and model it could do wonders

[hardy dust]

Idk that feels kinda stupid to be able to miss but still get decent damage for barely grazing someone

Its fine as is right now. There isn't really a need to change how shotgun damage works

[potent thorn]

No because for some flipping reason this is a WH40k bolter in practicality. What the shaboingus

[hardy dust]

If anything id just remove the damage falloff from most shotguns and let the spread nerf the range

[analog pewter]

massive model buff
best weapon in the game atp

[hardy dust]

Not even close

[analog pewter]

it would be insanely strong, have u seen how tight its spread is? it can land a LOT of shots at range, especially its center cluster

[hardy dust]

But it would put it in a better spot, which would be nice

[hardy dust]

It would still miss the outer pellet spread and it already doesn't even have falloff until 20m

[potent thorn]

Actually not too bad but shot spread would need to be a tune-able option, considering that they would not only be projectiles now but be subject to some form of bullet drop to avoid severe chip damage at height. It can work but think more of Worms:WMD than traditional shooters as a problem to fix. Helldivers has this on lock with their shotguns and I honestly can’t tell you how that works

[polar edge]

honestly why would they have damage falloff when the spread already reduces a lot of damage

[hardy dust]

To reduce it even more and it lets them adjust ranged effectiveness with more precision

Sh1900 doesn't have falloff but all the other shotguns do

Probably since the spread is huge and it sucks outside of like 5-7m anyways

[polar edge]

even with 3m of range, sometimes it wont even hit all the pellets

[hardy dust]

Within 5m I think its able to hit enough to kill all classes in 2 shots

At 6-7m it can't kill heavy without a reload iirc

[vocal flume]

it all depends on the server, i was literally less than 1m into a heavy and shot both times and it didnt kill, the servers are what really makes the games register the damage properly or not, even a light i had to shoot 4 times to kill which makes no sense

[sick sun]

Tried the spear for the first time in quick cash, I felt a scene of power when I got ten kills and a few quick kills in quick secession.

[vocal flume]

yeah hopefully they remove the melee weapons and fix them since the melee system is the 2nd worst thing about this game

[lost lark]

plz'

[muted condor]

As much as I want to disagree I really can’t

[timber sparrow]

Dw ill disagree for you

[vocal flume]

if you honestly think melee in this game is solid you are dead wrong bro, the melee system is a joke and needs to be addressed, you dont even have to be in range for it to count, its garbage.

[timber sparrow]

I think melee is garbage and needs to be massively improved

[vocal flume]

yes the registration and range and the different view points need to be addressed, ive meleed people when i clearly wasnt even hitting them and it makes no sense, like there has to be a extra reach on the regular elbow melee

Apparently the Light sword has a 3m, reach, which i dont understand at all, also i think the melee has a big desync issue where you melee and clearly hit them but it registers later on and sometimes i find the melee hits the ghosting or previous location and counts as a hit, i know the servers are ass but its just amazing how bad it is and how bad embark does not want to address the servers, 8 seasons in a ive never seen or heard of them mention anything about server maintenance

[timber sparrow]

I have experienced desync with most weapons since s8 not just melee also melee hit reg has been garbage since late season 7 and embark wont fix it projectile weapons/melee hit for no damage all the time its stupid

[vocal flume]

ive been playing the game since the beta and ima be honest, they never addressed the melee, i find its still, since beta, so garbage

[timber sparrow]

Its gotten worse unironically

but to say it should be removed is stupid because the weapons are really fun + most of them are basically throw picks outside of certain comps

like melee should be improved, not removed

[eager wasp]

waiting for the day dagger isn't an 75% chance that a backstab will noreg, i want it to be playable again 😔

its worse for me bc my connection sucks, so im feeling the no regs harder than others are

[muted condor]

I have to say you think it need a rework out of a skill issue

I think it needs a rework because it’s boring and despite what people say it’s a straight ape play style with no skill outside of positioning which is why it’s impossible to balance

[boreal laurel]

This 👆👆👆

[muted condor]

They should implement some form of melee system

[vocal flume]

its not a skill issue, its a server side issue, you melee where they were and you still deal damage, there is no skill in melee if the game just auto damages based off of distance and location

[vocal flume]

you have to remove something to rework it, look at the thermal vision, shits removed because they are "reworking it" just remove it completely and give something else to lights

[scarlet ivy]

Same sentiment here

[muted condor]

Remove them completely? Naw that’s dumb but definitely rework them

[shell sonnet]

Yes please, id be delighted

[polar cedar]

I third this

[dry widget]

Will Pyro Grenade ever get a buff?

[eager wasp]

theoretically

[compact tundra]

@shell sonnet

[shell sonnet]

I wonder what happened in the last one

[compact tundra]

The white boxes on citadel are super finicky and expload with goo stacking

Through a goo nade on yourself and they break everything around them

[shell sonnet]

But that actually completes upward destruction

2x goo stacked + shooting it for low ceilings
Goo+goo yourself for high ceilings

Awesome

[shell sonnet]

I notuced u can push them by walking into them, but only sometimes

They are really fucky

Yall should try testing if you can get downward or sideways goo-struction to work

[compact tundra]

Yea, discovered it while trying to super jump on top of one. Spamming yourself with goo gets the same effect but to a lesser extent

[shell sonnet]

I do have a new theory for downward now

Your clip of self gooing should work downwards as well

I havent been able to get goo jumps to work yet

[compact tundra]

Maybe, I think it's cause I got as close to the ceiling as possible

[compact tundra]

I couldn't either

And I have decently good frame timing

[finite agate]

good lord solo queueing this game pmtfo sometimes, i got all my dailies but at what cost

[compact tundra]

Honesty agree, I keep getting put in the unemployment zone and like bro i'm just trying to clip some tech

[finite agate]

right like lmao, im good enough to not be an unc (im getting there tho) but im not so good i can hang with the unemployment zone like GUYS 😭

even worse when somehow i get on the 1/4 teams without a duo, and the other two on my team are somehow new

i cant carry yall im the one who gets carried

[shell sonnet]

I had someone jump out a window, onto my fresh corpse, trying to revive me right then and there, while a heavy was reviving another heavy right behind him

Legit did not see him, didnt react to my chat call out or anything 🥲

[finite agate]

im thankful melee at least lets me have chill games because thats less about trying so hard or more about "haha funni goo bonk"

[shell sonnet]

Love the variety in playstyles this game offers

[slow linden]

You cracked the code it would seem

I knew you would

[shell sonnet]

Goo

[slow linden]

Goo

Bring back goo ship

[shell sonnet]

doesnt seem to want to cooperate for me

unless the practise range is actually different, which wo0uldnt suprise me a lot based on some other findings

gonna test it on quick cash tutorial

[shell sonnet]

couldnt get it to work
wonder what i did differently

did lead me to discover something else

if you shoot a goo nades top middle blob, then try to vault+ run into it, you destroy the blobs left and right of you

can be done with goo gun blobs just on the ground, but its pretty precise
but it could be used as "blocked off" passage emergency getaway (tho it takes a good sec to break in the first place)

[obsidian kayak]

What do yall think is meta for Light rn? Thinking mostly of world tour, i don't really play ranked

[indigo nexus]

93r, LH1

[wise yacht]

LH1 has always been the best hands down, next to the XP. ARN is long-range meta if you have perfect vertical and horizontal recoil control.

[shell sonnet]

should items level based on usage time maybe?
like, how long its in your loadout while in a match

or maybe like a baseline x hours to next level, and earning xp speeds it up
it would at least avoid excessive waiting times on stuff that happens to have bad xp gain

[indigo nexus]

Hm? It's never been bad but it hasn't always been meta. Neither has XP

If you have great recoil control then LH1 is preferable to ARN, ARN is the easier to use option. But still viable

[shell sonnet]

low gravity in a nutshell

[slow linden]

Yes

[shell sonnet]

"making those previously impossible jumps"
turns previously possible jumps into death traps

[thick holly]

On those crate things, I found out that they can break through floors (example being that last clip, but we were on the ground floor)

[heady lotus]

Imo low gravity is the worst modifier, I hate how slow everything feels 😑

[fierce breach]

Low gravity, but make it faster

Like tribes

[shell sonnet]

double jump event

ok, hear me out, what if:
double jumping gives you the same effect as heavy hitters, where damage launches you

spam jump, blow yourself up, ROCKET JUMP

[fierce breach]

Getting shot increases your momentum in the opposite direction

If you get shot in the back you go forward faster

[timber sparrow]

The double jump event was lowk just lowgrav but good

[prime acorn]

It was fun ngl i agree low grav is still fun

.

[eternal elbow]

Halloween skin idea: the vanishing bomb as a ghost

[shell sonnet]

I hope they pull a dead go boom and replace it

[shell sonnet]

Would probably end badly tho

[strong flare]

Hey im intersted in your opinion for this dual blade change and if its a dumb idea. 🙂

What if the 65 hit would be changed to an attack that only triggers when you attack while you are blocking and give it a small lunge similiar but weaker than the sword (like 6m or smth).
I think it would remove the sluggish feel of the blades while giving you a very small movement option and raising the skill ceiling for fight initiation, gap closing or overall mid fight movement.
It could be balanced with the trade off that you cant reflect after the use for a small time for example.

(Yes i also would like a fix for the reflect to work, i just had this idea regardless)

Would love to hear your opinion 😉

[oblique crypt]

Damage launching you could honestly just be it's own event

[drifting forum]

defib shouldnt have any i frames

[lapis field]

I swea, lights only take like 5 damage from fire and heal in half a second😭

[spiral plover]

Just came back to the game a couple weeks ago and man does the dagger feel bad now 🙁 still fun but doesnt feel as good as it used too, only good change was being able to hold heavy attack

[drifting forum]

all melee weapons are ass 🙁 and they dont care

[muted condor]

Hammer and sword are still good

[spiral plover]

sword still feels ok

[muted condor]

That’s it tho all the other melee are gutted

[drifting forum]

hammer and sword are the only ones that don't feel like you're throwing if you use them, ya. but they're nowhere near meta

[rugged marten]

Dual swords work okay enough as a counter pick

[indigo nexus]

spear seems to be able to compete with hammer fine imo, but I may be biased as I have more time on spear

[spring spear]

true they should swap low grav with the double jump event from last week's world tour stop

[spiral plover]

dagger just needs something to make it worth taking like a perk, maybe moving faster or something, Maybe like Dual wield daggers and your heavy attack is now a throw that if missed takes awhile to come back but if you hit it then you do bonus damage and get it back when you melee the target. Fast attack can be back and forth slashes with both hands unless your missing one and then its what it is currently but if you have both its faster attacking

idk just brainstorming

[muted condor]

Spear has to bad of hit detection to justify taking

And dual blades just need a entire rework

Riot shield literally doesn’t work anymore

[drifting forum]

spear's alt attack being locked is horrible too

they just dont care about some weapons (MGL lol)

[spiral plover]

maybe a dual slash cross dash since its an in and out weapon, i just want dagger to be a fun mid tier viable weapon, hell i want all melee like that, i play this game for melee or obscure ranged like bow and Throwing Knives

[muted condor]

They need a entire new melee system tbh

The way they play now is pretty much unbalance able

[south plinth]

Fuck the riot shield but yeah give the other melees a little love embark pls

[spiral plover]

i think melee just needs perks to make it something worth taking, faster movement or better lunge, just some love, idk why people get so bent out of shape when melee is viable in a FPS

[indigo nexus]

Hah, yeah... at least it's quite predictable when it'll fail after a time.

[muted condor]

The problem with melee is it honestly a low effort play style now that just requires spamming the enemy at point blank

[strong flare]

@muted condor wdym low effort? Do you know how much effort it takes to get to an enemy alive? You really have to play diffrent with melee to make it work consistently

[muted condor]

Yes I used to main melee

[indigo nexus]

I definitely don't agree, I'd definitely say it takes more effort than using any gun

guns only really have reloading to worry about, and sometimes using cover well

[muted condor]

Melee weapons should be built around a gimmick not killing

[indigo nexus]

Agreed, but the only one that I would think has a weaker gimmick would be spear

[muted condor]

IMO dual blades and spear are the best design melee because they have an actual role and abilities and are just ape weapons

[indigo nexus]

dagger is unhealthily gimmicky for a few reasons

[muted condor]

Having the same TTK for all three classes breaks class balance

Melee should bring utility and focus on a defining ability such as area denial with the spear and punishing enemies for bad plays like the dual blades

[placid slate]

Hammer takes infinitely less effort than spear to get the same results

[placid slate]

Also spear doesn't have the innate design problems that hammer has due to it having a higher attack speed

[muted condor]

Hammer is a prime example of a bad melee design

[drifting forum]

lmao this is such a bad take

[muted condor]

It’s a unga bunga bonk weapon that has almost zero skill floor or ceiling and the utility is cool but doesn’t do enough to balance the weapon around

[placid slate]

Ain't wrong, hammer and new sword kinda just w m1 people

At leat old sword made you play as the bullet

New one is the m1iest m1 spam

[muted condor]

The only skill related thing most the melee has is knowing how to get close to people and that’s not even that hard in this game

[placid slate]

Most of the rest of it is just knowledge checks and CD and health management

[drifting forum]

mate if it was so low skill good weapon why does literally nobody use it in high lobbies

[placid slate]

Nobody said good

[muted condor]

Spear is a good design because it has the normal spam attack but also provides area denial

[muted condor]

Low skill doesn’t mean it’s good

[drifting forum]

ok, as long as we all agree melees are ass

[placid slate]

And if they incorporate the m2 from the new event it'll open up a lot of combo. Even with current spin, spin cancel adds depth

[muted condor]

They are ass because if you buff them they will dominate every lobby with zero effort

[drifting forum]

bro 😭😭 you guys have never played melees in decent lobbies if you think they're low/zero effort

[placid slate]

I mean there are more low effort melees than not

[stoic garden]

my lh1 ass sniping your stealing shit:

[muted condor]

This guy doesn’t know we ARE the decent melee players lmao

[placid slate]

I'd hardly call myself decent

[indigo nexus]

I don't think I'd agree that any of them are lower effort than a typical gun

[muted condor]

I’d say I’m above average with melee

[placid slate]

New sword is lame as shit if you're playing at max efficiency

[drifting forum]

ya i agree, dual blades and riot are low effort

[stoic garden]

new sword is lame as shit if you're playing

[muted condor]

Not winning any trophies but I can hold my own with them in WT

[indigo nexus]

I don't think so, but it is a lot harder to approach max efficiency than it used to be so a lot of people do just M1 spam. Even so, I think it's harder to use than a gun.

[placid slate]

This is because you are nit running the spear 3 stack

[placid slate]

M1 spam is the fastest way to kill

[drifting forum]

ARs and SMGs are literally just point and shoot from literally any range, there's nothing less effort than that

[indigo nexus]

Usually, but this does not make it the best. Minimising the damage that you take yourself is very important. The sword has a ton of movement that can be used within a fight

[muted condor]

We should run a three stack spear team next time they have a tournament

[placid slate]

I mean you can boil every type of weapon down to its base components if you want them all to sound like a snoozefest

[muted condor]

Melee suck because if they were viable in their current state it would be ass

[drifting forum]

i agree, which is what yall are doing in this chat. im just trying to say the same thing about guns that yall are saying about melees

"its just m1 spam" (probably cause embark takes away all combos with the alt attack)

[indigo nexus]

viable at what level? To ruby? I think I'd agree with you. But to a lower rank, no.

[muted condor]

If we buffed every melee it would make all indoor fights miserable

[placid slate]

I mean it's hard to not break down sledge into its base components when there is essentially only 2 ingredients

[muted condor]

Melee literally is just that simple tho. You get close to them then spam one button

[drifting forum]

guns are that simple, you literally just hold down m1. dont even have to click it. way easier than melees (if thats how you want to break them down)

[strong flare]

Every melee is special and has a different purose!

riot shield holds space, spear creates space through „consistend“ dmg, sledge creates new pathways, dual blades defend agressively with potential long range punishment, sword is for swift strikes and bit dmg as setup while you have team fights, and dagger is the gamble for swift removal of individuals in fights when it isnt the main target (so its more assisting with high risk high reward).

[stoic garden]

this chat is not very rational rn

[indigo nexus]

Only 2? Compared to most guns I would put the comparison as this:

- reload requirement

• positioning requirement
• burst utilisation requirement
• destruction utilisation requirement
• managing increased attack committal risks

[muted condor]

Recoil, ammo economy, head shots, and range management

[drifting forum]

i just dont trust anybody's opinion that say melee is low effort. its a low brain capacity thing to say

[strong flare]

im just gonna say rubylabubu

[placid slate]

I mean you hand a sledge player any other melee that's not a riot shield, they'd probably piss and shit themselves

[indigo nexus]

not sure what point is being made here

[muted condor]

Melee sucks because most of them have a shit base design

That’s the point

[placid slate]

That implies the ones with good design would've been buffed by now

[strong flare]

saltyness and not willing to have a discussion in which he could be wrong

[indigo nexus]

I would like them to tell me what the point was because this sounds unrelated to what they said

[drifting forum]

i have no clue what that means lol

[placid slate]

God forbid a man doesn't pass up an opportunity to rag on sledgehammer

[muted condor]

Embark hates dual blades an spear for some reason

[placid slate]

At least spear is getting hints of a buff

[strong flare]

oh he played very well in the qualifier and even used the sledge to pretty good success. his team lost unfortunately to ssg very late. he even use ks 23 with goo gun

[muted condor]

And I have no opinion on the sword because I haven’t played it enough

[placid slate]

It feels pretty lame now

[indigo nexus]

It's very punishing to use the right click a lot

[drifting forum]

oh wow i had no clue, props to him tbh cause thats impressive

[muted condor]

I’m not sure how the base design is so I can say if it falls into the same category as sledge

[indigo nexus]

even if it's useful, you absolutely cannot afford to misjudge its use

[placid slate]

I'd take a nerf to its m1 so it isn't as shit

[muted condor]

Sledge does exactly what it was made to be. A bonk weapon for ape play styles and that’s fine but should not be a viable pick

[placid slate]

Viable and meta are different things

[strong flare]

the open qualifier would like to differ

[placid slate]

Rn it's viable, who knows what would've happened in season 7 if it didn't get nerfed

[strong flare]

everything is viable to some extend in this game. it is what makes it so great. you can succeed with everything if you play it right

[placid slate]

Maybe a sledge hate train would've started and mfs wouldn't have been so critical of the nerf

[placid slate]

Except riot shield since they deleted the shield hitbox

[strong flare]

even the mgl seems op in the right hands. (truce for example)

[muted condor]

Never said it wasn’t

It shouldn’t be a meta weapon and was nerfed for a good reason

[drifting forum]

melees should be viable in the meta

[strong flare]

the unfortunate thing is with the riot and is that the most consistend thing about it is the inconsistensy

[placid slate]

I mean they kinda are, but the bar for viability is very low, basically just functional

[muted condor]

I agree

[placid slate]

Even then embarks inability to make a melee hit reg patch that doesn't do the opposite of what they said it would do doesn't help in the "functional" department

In conclusion: sledge players are cowards and embark should make the spear m2 do 1 spin per input

[strong flare]

and the are. in this game we dont have a very well defined meta. embark themselves said that they created this game with melee in mind bc they wanted something special and diffrent. they wanted a game that allows melee to be more than a troll pick and you can see it in the fundamentals.

[muted condor]

Sledge hammer should not be meta tho

[drifting forum]

ya but then they nerf every melee when it becomes anything more than just viable

[placid slate]

The meta is pretty defined, lights are hard locked to 3 gadgets, 90% of heavies in pro league run sa1216 to the point that all but 1 esport bundle has a sa12 skin. Meds are hard locked to defib and jumppad

[muted condor]

If they reworked sledge to express more skill and actually have a good gimmick then yes it should be viable

[strong flare]

and it isnt which is good. not meta does not mean not functional to success. dagger is another example for a weapon that shouldnt be allowed to be meta. or do you think the shorty feels great to play against

[placid slate]

Clearly they should remove the m2 and replace it with a throw

[strong flare]

and im again pointing to the open qualifiers. to the goo guns and the charge and slams, to the demat plays.

[spiral plover]

as much as i know your joking how cool would it be if you had the wench equip you could attach it and throw and pull back as a perk XD

[strong flare]

it could just work like the bow. it just materializes in your hands after throwing and for a throw you would have to charge it

[drifting forum]

i mean, open qualifiers don't mean much tbh. look at the closed qualifiers for a better indication of high-level meta (i didn't watch any so i don't know lol)

[strong flare]

there were no closed qualys as far as i know. just pre signed teams like alliance that didnt have to play to get into the open

[muted condor]

Give spear a charged up ultimate that lets you fly and throw lightning bolts (least wild spear rework suggestion)

[strong flare]

and you should watch it even now. it was so hype 😉

[drifting forum]

no there was! here's the webpage for it https://www.reachthefinals.com/patchnotes/closedqualifiers2025

but ya i heard all good things, i should go back and watch

[placid slate]

They should remove all recognisable traits of the sledgehammer so it becomes a reskinned throwing knives

[strong flare]

then i have to apologize

still go watch the open 😅

[drifting forum]

haha ill watch both 🙂

here's the 10hr stream of the closed quals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMWxJ0dcKKc

[muted condor]

They should give sledge a secondary attack that equips a .50 bmg that one shots lights through walls

[strong flare]

thanky you

oh im sorry i confused the closed for the open qualifiers. to the whole time i meant the closed insted of the open 😅

[drifting forum]

ok haha then ya all points are fair, im excited to see that guy use sledge & ks

[safe aspen]

me three

[strong flare]

its hype. (its the na tourney not the eu)

[safe aspen]

cool

[sudden pewter]

An ult charge they can use after dealing 2000 demolition damage

[muted condor]

Real

[rugged marten]

Sledge quick melee should be able to knock grenades/barrels back (like a baseball bat)

[compact tundra]

Not sure. Might just be that citadel is particularly finicky. But the most reliable way I got it to work was by climbing goo until I was crouched and pushed against the ceiling, and then throwing goo nade on myself

[placid slate]

Sledge qm should make them take double damage from spear

[rugged marten]

On god

[sudden pewter]

Turning you into a zoombini for that

[finite agate]

just realized, if embark ends up caving in and giving the spear a throw, they could repurpose current spear's kit into a melee greatsword poking for 1v1 and sweeping arcs for aoe was more or less how one was used https://youtube.com/shorts/8CRphwIjNNQ

this is a roundabout way of me wanting a greatsword skin mostly

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-hurts-gif-12096381820083648834

[finite agate]

for the record i dont want spear throw, just beeg sword

[compact tundra]

Hey if these changes were implemented could sledge be reverted or should it stay as is.

Goo Gun

Reasoning

I think goo gun is an excellent spec but has a few points of contention and a few things holding it back from ever really being used at higher levels outside of really unique players. The problem I see with Goo Gun often from others is its sheer ability to stall and completely control the flow of a fight. It can be used to spam doors closed, spam stun enemies who are advancing on you, and just be a general nuisance. I think this is only really fueled by Goo Guns sheer ammo capacity and relatively quick reload. It makes the spec too spammy to be fun to fight, but also too spammy to ever be healthy if buffed. The main reason I see it not used in comp despite hard countering the meta option is it's unreliability and high skill floor to get even close to enough use out of it to make dropping winch worth the trade. Hopefully with Winches rework and Goo Guns changes it can exist in a healthier state and be more viable at the same time.

Changes

1. Goo Gun now has a mag size of 8 goo blobs, after firing 8 shots the Goo Gun must be reloaded.
2. Goo Gun reload speed nerfed to .8 sec
3. Goo Gun now has a .2 sec buffer in-between shots
4. The Goo Gun now shoots with perfect accuracy and has no bloom or movement/airborne penalty

[finite agate]

icb this is how i learn goo gun has bloom

[compact tundra]

Winch Claw Changes

1. Winch still goes through mesh shield. But friendly mesh shields now block the Winch target from passing through the shield, so Winching an enemy protected by their mesh heavy causes the Winch to pull them up to the mesh shield, but the chain breaks there. When Winching the mesh heavy themselves the Winch causes the mesh heavy to drop their shield and stun but doesn't pull them, the mesh heavy still gets a stun advantage tho since they don't suffer the full pull duration. This allows mesh to still work against winch but gives the winch counter play options and the ability to waste a mesh charge. When Winching a heavy that is currently Charging(C&S), it will force the C&S heavy to slam the ground but won't pull them. The C&S heavies slam should take the same duration as the stun placed upon the Winch heavy so neither have a stun advantage.

2. Winch now has a wind up. The Winch heavy spins the chain around with one hand and for each rotation it will gain 5m of range up to 15m. Each rotation takes .3 seconds and is done by holding the spec button, it releases when you release the button, releasing during a rotation makes it launch as soon as the rotation ends. Pressing the button spins it once and then releases for the minimum range of 5m.

3. The Winch heavy and the Winch target now suffer the same stun duration, this prevents panic Winches from giving the heavy a kill they otherwise wouldn't have had.

4. Being stunned while rotating or throwing the winch causes it to go on a 6 sec timer, this is to address its unfavorable matchup with goo gun since goo gun will be receiving a rework. This also affects its matchup with all goo, other Winches, and Nullifier.

5. With these changes I think reworking the winches cooldowns to be
   6 sec on interrupt via stun mid rotation or swing
   8 sec on miss or trades (C&S & Mesh shield), enemies that are winched but get cut off due to mesh shield or walls count as trades
   10 sec on low value targets (statue, barrel, vault, ect…)
   12 sec on high value target (players and cashboxes)

6. This change is optional but does help address another issue that might be good to resolve. I would have winch pull players to be 3m away from the heavy to address sledge combos and 1 shots and to limit its power with SA a little bit. This gives the Winch target more room to react with and some time to respond if winched by a sledge hammer. This change would possibly allow sledge to return to its former glory and would make the eventual melee reworks easier to implement.

[compact tundra]

Honestly I want to know how you feel about the goo gun rework Idea

[compact tundra]

Don't worry, I found out via the discord as well

[shell sonnet]

you often need a lot of goo to actually perform its main purpose
this would be extremely negative

point 4 is Qol and would do nothing to offset it

and idk what point 3 means exactly

[compact tundra]

So the goo gun rework is meant to address stun/stall spam. Basically the biggest issue I see with Goo gun is when a team holds a box and has 1 or more goo guns just spamming every entrance to try to stall for as much time as possible and it can be very difficult to push, and then when you do break through you get stunned and gunned down by the whole team held up in that section of the building. The other issue I see is goo gun is very punishing against melees/shotguns and the goo gun heavy can just keep stunning and peppering you. You can't run away, disengage, or attack. The Goo Gun heavy controls the fight as long as they hit their stuns. This is meant to address that. A much smaller goo limit, a .2 second delay in-between each shot, and a .8 second reload animation. I get it's a pretty big nerf but I don't see goo ever being able to be buffed or made more consistent if it stays in its current spamable state

And point 4 is meant to make Goo Gun more reliable with good aim. Now goo gun has no rng and is reliant on wether or not you can hit your target. This makes the vent tech more reliable, stunning more reliable, stopping steals more reliable, ECT...

I might also change it where goo gun always shoots the same goo blob, so that things like the vent tech are more reliable and less susceptible to the variant goo shapes

[shell sonnet]

i mean, anything can/will be annoying when multiple people run it, especially in coordinated fashion like this
i do think goo gun can be annoying, but in my experience thats somewhat rare, especially with how few people run it, and it still has downsides

cant think of anything rn, my brain is drained and has been panned in goo dust, i dont think youll get anything smart out of me today

[compact tundra]

That's fine, I had an alternate idea I could pitch but I think the one above is the healthiest for the game and probably the best way to put goo gun in a spot where viability could be in reach, nerfing spam and removing RNG from the spec

[shell sonnet]

go ahead, at least having heard it cant hurt

[compact tundra]

Keep goo gun at the same ammo capacity

To reload you take the mag out and refill it yourself. It takes a total of 3 sec to refill the full mag.
You unscrew the mag (which now has a section on the side that lets you view how full it is and has markers showing 5 blobs, 10 blobs, 15 blobs, and 20 blobs. And refill it with the goo liquid, the reload is cancelable by pressing the reload button again, QMing, or swapping to another item. Canceling means you still partially filled the mag. This makes ammo management and punishing goo gun reloads way more prominent.

There is a .2 second animation before you start filling the mag

The bloom changes stay the same

Ignore the skull it was a misclick

[shell sonnet]

i could see that

still usable for direct combat
for construction purposes you have time anyways
does its job to prevent large amounts of spam

[compact tundra]

The only problem I have with this is it's just as spamable for the first mag, it's only after wasting 20 shots that you can be punished

[shell sonnet]

🤷‍♂️

[compact tundra]

Either way I'll add this as an alternative route for change to my balance sheet

[muted condor]

I don’t play goo gun so I can’t say much but not being able to stun lock sounds good to me

[compact tundra]

I was more asking your input as someone who is often countered by goo gun

[muted condor]

Sounds good to me

[compact tundra]

Due to RS___C's complaints about how this would effect goo gun tech I also made these alt changes, do you think they would also help with the issues you've had facing goo gun

Alternative changes

Reasoning
The changes above are really punishing to a spec that is already low in use rates and isn't widely considered viable, so alternatively I came up with these changes to be more gentle to the weapon, but they address the spam issue in a poorer way.

1. Goo gun retains it's 20 blobs mag
2. While reloading now you unscrew the mag (which now has a section on the side that lets you view how full it is and has markers showing 5 blobs, 10 blobs, 15 blobs, and 20 blobs. And refill it with the goo liquid, the reload is cancelable by pressing the reload button again, shooting, QMing, or swapping to another item. Canceling means you still partially filled the mag.
   This makes ammo management and punishing Goo Gun reloads way more prominent.
3. Fully reloading the mag takes 3 seconds and there is a .2 second animation before you start filling the mag. So from pressing the reload button on empty to having a full mag it is a total of 3.2 seconds
4. The Goo Gun now shoots with perfect accuracy and has no bloom or movement/airborne penalty. The Goo gun also always shoots the same goo variant now to make things like the vent tech more consistent

[muted condor]

Personally I think just making good bounce off people before deploying would be a good start

[compact tundra]

Would it still stun?

[muted condor]

Not directly

[compact tundra]

Can you explain how it would work

[shell sonnet]

no offense, but that sounds a little like chat gpt

[compact tundra]

What does?

[shell sonnet]

The changes above are really punishing to a spec that is already low in use rates and isn't widely considered viable, so alternatively I came up with these changes to be more gentle to the weapon, but they address the spam issue in a poorer way.
idk how to explain it

please dont plant a snuke in my house

[compact tundra]

I think it's cause It sounds weirdly corporate for me. But this is a balance sheet I'm cooking up for the specific purpose of laying out all my more tame balance ideas and the direction I would like the game to move balance wise while approaching from the angle of what would i do if I was actually a developer in this game and had to care about how others felt about items, both the people who use them and the people who face them

[shell sonnet]

i think staying real and trying to explain why you think a certain way instead of the usual feedback posts has a higher chance of working
sadly, the greater detail you make it, the more likely it seems like ai/feels out of place
it would explain the odd reaction ive gotten to my stuff before...

[compact tundra]

I think I've been doing that well, just the difference is I'm not really basing this on how I feel, I love goo gun and find infinite goo very funny. I'm basing this off of everything I've seen here and in game. Basically actually looking at who has good points and who doesn't, something the actual devs should do more imo

This is genuinely just, if I was made head of balancing at embark right now without access to the behind the scenes stats, what would i do.
For The Balance Changes. There's also my general feedback/opinion on other topics mixed in

Here's the link if you're mentally capable of reading atm
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vwapmPGxJ03NcFzN4qXryyR2CsW4AB6dnz5VBJMVIrI/edit?usp=drivesdk

[abstract blaze]

i was just skimming the front but kill cams recreate gameplay like a TAS because to implement a recording like you suggested, it would require a client to send a video file every time they can get a kill, and video files become large very quickly. if someone's internet connection was slow you'd like, never see it. recording someone's inputs (which get sent to the server anyway) and replaying them on your end is a lot more feasible, a lot faster, and has more graphical consistency.

[compact tundra]

That's fair, I'm not really knowledgeable on how anything technical works so I put my opinion and thoughts on it in there but didn't really criticize it. Also I wrote that when 8.0 dropped so the bugged platform on bernal might be fixed by now

Honestly given this info I'll probably just remove the section since that's the only input I had on kill cams really

[abstract blaze]

yeah i hate the kill cam bugs 😭

[compact tundra]

Does anyone know the flamethrowers range

[compact tundra]

Honestly the kill cams are just kinda buggy in general, especially while being resed

[shadow blade]

Any update on thermal vision.

[slow linden]

Low grav sucks

[polar edge]

ragebait used to be believable

[pearl swan]

need a tam finalssss let me make a vcccccc

[analog pewter]

tfw i did all my dailies on the first day but the bug means i have to do an additional daily tomorrow to get the holtow drip :\

[slow linden]

: (

[versed finch]

embark please give the model a bit more help

[finite agate]

god light sucks with poke weapons bruh, i dont get the point of flanking and getting an offangle if you cant delete them as fast as they can delete you

this is why DB is the only thing that makes sense to me lmfao

[analog pewter]

I think you're thinking about light/poking wrong tbh
you don't just have TTK that can kill faster than any other class, but you've got mobility to disengage
the point of poke weapons is to minimize time exposed, so you poke and then retreat behind cover, and then poke again. light is a class that can do this very well

[royal pier]

Let spear stab through walls for less damage. Add a fun little glitch effect around the area they stab.

Lets it have a little bit of the functionality Sledge has.

[finite agate]

yeah i think im too used to how flank plays in other games where you can usually secure a pick and get out, here it seems way more harass oriented

and if i just want to harass, why wouldnt i just run a medium with demat?

[analog pewter]

Demat is heavily telegraphed (loud audio cue) and medium has slower movement speed and a larger hitbox and weaker weapons

One of the reasons they say that Medium is a "support" class is not just the support utility but the fact that their weapons are designed such that they tend to give just enough time for someone hit by them to run away. Most kills mediums get are either against people who think they can take the duel or people who were weakened but ran back into the fight to help their teammates

[finite agate]

i really dont feel the weaker weapons thing when light gets lit up against anyone with decent aim

famas revolver and repeater all chonk like a mf xP

[analog pewter]

Light is akin to a slaying/flanking class in another game, while medium is a skirmishing/dueling class and heavy is an anchor/area denial class.

Slaying/Flanking generally means

1. finding out of position enemies to fight on their own in a surprise attack
2. finishing targets your teammates dealt damage to but cant get the finishing blow on
3. cleaning out any rear defenses/gadgets that might be preventing your teammates from pushing
   as a light, there should basically never be a situation where you see multiple enemies on your screen and you don't run into the nearest building, unless there are more of your teammates in the same space. Light has the best tools for taking the most advantageous position they can find, whereas medium and heavy can't as easily flank on an aware team

[analog pewter]

generally I feel that the headshot damage medium does with some of their weapons, light is able to do the same DPS with just body shots

[finite agate]

it's weird bc i do all that and do well on shit like paladins/rivals, and it works

here it just feels like im high key trolling bc landing a flank on a class with more hp means you get them unaware and you dont blow up if they turn around

.....the addendum here is i can make it work on m11/db/matter/sword/93r/v9s

i go any further than that range and i start straight up trolling

[analog pewter]

yeah light is also the class that most relies on teammate communication, bc usually they can't flank well if their teammates aren't also in a good position to push

[hardy dust]

Its not that drastic

[finite agate]

yea it feels the most miserable on solo unless im cracked, which im not

i can generally make the other two classes work just fine but being 150 hp even against something like an fcar is suffering

[hardy dust]

The damage values are pretty close

[analog pewter]

solo queue light means you just need to wait for your teammates to start pushing before you take action. never lead the charge for sure

[finite agate]

i try to do that but they generally die before i can rotate fast enough compared to just demat flanking where walls are optional

high key this is making me understand the "light sucks, heavy and medium are meta" discourse xP

[analog pewter]

compare like, the M26 matter to the model. the damage values are similar but the matter fires way faster, it kills a heavy over 1s faster than the model
the 93r only kills 0.1s slower than the famas with bodyshots vs headshots on the famas

the damage values are often similar but light weapons of similar functionality often fire way faster as an example

oh also the m26 matter has more damagee so it kills heavy in 3 shots vs 4, that's an important distinction

for some reason light's shotguns kill in the same shots for medium and heavy. its a consistent design trait

[finite agate]

i've heard it said that m26 matter feels like a pre-nerf model, i wouldnt know tho i wasnt here for pre-nerf model

i also realize light might be suffering for me bc my reaction time is ass and by the time i realize it's a bad engage im dead

[royal pier]

I think it'd be really interesting if Spear's main attacks all did the same damage, but were balanced around the head being a critical hit zone.

[analog pewter]

one of the things I've learned in the finals is to always have my feet ahead of my brain. I've already decided I'm going to run away before I even hit the flank
or brain ahead of my feet? idk either way

[royal pier]

It 3 taps Heavy like pre nerf model 1887, but less range. Which doesn't matter much since Light is more mobile.

[finite agate]

probably brain ahead of your feet yeah, i should try that. like between that and the struggle of making the most out of dash mobility compared to the freedom that demat has and it's fucking me up fr

[analog pewter]

it also makes you a better demat player if you know exactly what escape route you're going to make before you even need to escape the fight

[finite agate]

ofc it would probably help if i stopped trying to make hard to learn weapons like bow/lh1/throwing knives work WHILE learning a the whole class, but i can only play m11/arn/xp so much before it gets dull

[analog pewter]

I try to be making decisions one or two steps ahead and just committing to them the moment it looks like things might go that way. maybe you could win that fight, but it's a much easier task running away from it and recouping

sometimes I commit to my retreat early, and then just un-retreat to mix up the opponent. If I think they're gonna chase me if I run away, I'm gonna start running away and then just turn around and whack em. like I'm gonna take two steps, I might even make my next demat but then not run through it bc they're expecting a guy to be running away from them. people can have fast reactions but their expectations change much slower

[finite agate]

i realize too that me thinking that heavy is the main "if you catch someone isolated they're cooked" class has me comparing light to heavy every time i fail a dive on an out of position person

.........i may have gotten too goo sledge pilled and everything feels like ass in comparison

[analog pewter]

yeah people kind of have to run into heavy for heavy to do work, but light has to run into people and then run away and then run back into them

a lot of the team synergy is figuring out how to make people run into your heavy and how to get your light to run into people where they don't expect

thats part of why winch is so good, it increases heavy's threat bubble massively

now "running into heavy" isn't just like a 20m sphere around the heavy, it's like a 30m sphere

[finite agate]

domain expansion ass build

[analog pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/netero-meruem-chimera-gif-19998744

heavy when winch claw is off cooldown

but yeah I started really enjoying this game when i started like, making those decisions ahead of time. idk it was such a revelation for me that a semi-realistic shooter could have such depth of strategy and spot decision making with so many moving parts I could always engage with. dynamism is so real

[finite agate]

plays light like a milsim

[hardy dust]

Tbf thats comparing body shot to body shot, so its slightly more distinct

And model also needs a buff

[hardy dust]

Its pretty close, but prenerf model had even better breakpoints and much better range in exhange for slower rof

Its honestly closest to model in between it's nerfs when it was still quite strong but not at it's peak

[royal pier]

If they nerf the 93r in a way that is actually noticeable, I could see M26 becoming meta.

[analog pewter]

no i dont :(

i play light fast and loose I just always try and have a plan for if i start taking heat

[abstract blaze]

as a beginner ive really enjoyed reading thru this thread ty Yikes for the advice :)

[finite agate]

im saying im bout to LOL

[analog pewter]

oh shit hell yeah lmk how it goes

[abstract blaze]

scowotty would u ever wanna play together
also do yall have any advice for medium? Idk what the best "sniper"/"poke" weapon would be, ive been using repeater but also have been looking at the revolver and pike since they get less inert at close range

[finite agate]

sure but not rn, doing some stuff

[finite agate]

revolver kind of wants you to play close-medium, pike used to be versatile but i havent tried it since the nerf. repeater can work-ish close up if you either quickscope or just try and get in a position where they're in cerberus/double barrel distance

[verbal atlas]

ima say this and dip. The finals is better than the upcoming battlefield 6 game

[analog pewter]

i def see myself playing the finals more long-term. IDK if I'm even gettiing BF6 personally

[eager wasp]

my computer can't run it, so the finals wins by default

[analog pewter]

man you use riot shield for a minute and the entire lobby swaps to the fucking CL-40 and flamethrower

https://tenor.com/view/buzz-lightyear-gif-21327280

not even dual blades get that treatment lol

[analog pewter]

god u just know they were pissed

[verbal atlas]

i have gamepass thats the only way I am gonna play it for now

[royal pier]

Btw I think Embark broke a S6 change to Flamethrower where hitting a cloaked target would knock them out of it. Cause I'm seeing cloaked mfs running around while burning.

[shell sonnet]

Fuck, you just reminded me that i had another cloak bug clip some time ago but i forgot to put it away
Now i gotta go find it 😭

[hardy dust]

Nah cloak got a qol change so that fire and gas doesn't stop it

So flamer direct damage can reveal but not afterburn iirc

[hardy dust]

I feel like it would end up with lh1 and arn

M26 is stronger in a more brawly meta but rn theres so much poke damage