💣┇weapons-gadgets

[sand monolith]

MMM is by far the best

[timber sparrow]

2 pikes and a model all you need

[vale mulch]

Or triple grenade launcher 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢

[supple oracle]

Tazer still a thing?

[naive glacier]

unfortunately it's here to stay

[acoustic patrol]

I have an idea to rework the tazer... what if you have to charge the tazer and its effectiveness changes based on how long you charge.

OR it works like a real tazer and you must hold the button down for the movement speed debuff.

then glitch for ~5 secs

[royal pier]

So if nothing else significantly changes, it's probably a bit much for Heavy go have 10 sec regen delay.

[acoustic patrol]

You can't really change the tazer THAT much, it is meant to incapacitate people, it is generally an unfair tool alike it's real-life counterpart.

[hardy dust]

I wish they reworked it into a glitch gun. It would remove the "crutch" aspect of the weapon while giving it more utility.

A nerf for bad lights and a buff for good ones.

[spark igloo]

this is a game where sniper headshots leave you half alive and you explode into coins when you die. Realism is definitely not the goal

[timber sparrow]

Stun is MID

[acoustic patrol]

That's why the developers shot guns in an abandoned facility to make unrealistic gunshot sound FX, oh and thats why the gun models looks like kids toys!

[late sequoia]

Revolver should have a 1.5s reload, and hipfire somewhere more-or-less midway between the CL40 and current stats.
This would rebalance it to serve as a close range weapon and give it a distinct use opposite the Pike's ADS-centric ranged role.

[spark igloo]

very realistical lewis gun

[acoustic patrol]

bro, lazy gaslighting won't get you anywhere in a debate.

[spark igloo]

It's not gaslighting? Thats a gun in this game

[hardy dust]

???

[late sequoia]

I took it for sarcasm...

[covert parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-cl-40-my-beloved-heart-gif-4492724531781840413

its in a balanced state dont touch it

[spark igloo]

bait has never been less believable

[covert parcel]

erm its a projectile 😄

[spark igloo]

what

[covert parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/car-garn47-garn47car-boing-cat-gif-2875294927157963496

[late sequoia]

Unironically, it is.
It's a low-skill melter, but it's only a mid-tier weapon in the hands of high ELO players.

[acoustic patrol]

Sigh... i couldn't think of the word that actually is. But you are dodging the question.

[covert parcel]

seriously it is high elo viable but for casuals they need to take turns buffing/nerfing ONE "meme" weapon in and out of mid elo meta (im calling it, flamethrowers gonna be the next viable meme gun)

[spiral pilot]

just learn how to aim and you wont need it

[spark igloo]

my favourite realistic item

[acoustic patrol]

You are forgetting about splash damage...

[spark igloo]

I wonder what this was modeled off of in real life

[covert parcel]

brother a misquoto will deal more damage than a splash CL40

[covert parcel]

seriously, alien invasion needs to have antigrav effect, such a missed opportunity

[late sequoia]

Yep, in high ELO a lot of weapons are viable (and a lot aren't), but it's VERY unlikely to be THE meta pick.

Especially since APS turret hard counters nearly an entire mag from it.

[vale mulch]

My favorite real weapon is the vanish bomb

[covert parcel]

m1887 + zip + pad "buh muh meta is changing"

[acoustic patrol]

🖕 The original models for the guns I was talking about had different objectives when designing. I wasn't talking about the game as a whole.

[covert parcel]

do you like cheese

[acoustic patrol]

how did you know?

[late sequoia]

LH1 is also a meta pick, IIRC.
The raw TTK on head shots is too powerful to pass up.

[covert parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finals-finals-error-queue-gif-16595771348817536563

[hardy dust]

Yeah, but you could just run a pike medium and that's pretty much a direct upgrade.

[fleet brook]

I'd say alot is a stretch

[covert parcel]

wheres that gif if the year 1 contestants with default outfits and chad faces

[vale mulch]

V9S will always be better in my heart 😤😤😤

[fleet brook]

Actually correction light has a lot

Medium has some

Heavy has 3-4

[acoustic patrol]

elevator cashout.

[fleet brook]

Have a heavy winch grab it out

And tbf you have the larger issue of nade spam

[vale mulch]

You have a point.

[acoustic patrol]

Goo, barriers, shutup.

[covert parcel]

every weapon that isnt automatic is viable in a forced close quarter

[fleet brook]

? What do you mean and I mean

If you goo a pyro nade you've just made it worse for your teammates

[late sequoia]

LH1 has the same bullets to kill on HS, but fires faster, accuracy resets a bit faster, it has more ammo per mag, and has a 0.15s faster reload.

It's only practical downside is damage drop at +50m is a bit worse, but at those ranges you're HIGHLY unlikely to land too many shots (especially in high ELO matches).

[fleet brook]

At 55+ you're uncontested and the person is looking around for where they're taking damage from

[acoustic patrol]

Things that could block a winch...

It can also get easily caught by doors.

A problem I have often.

[vale mulch]

Model can keep its damage just make the falloff like an actually shotgun pls 😭

[late sequoia]

If they're smart, one shot and they're ducking into a building and paying attention to the red "you took damage from this direction" indicator arrow that shows up on your screen after a moment.

That's my point.
At those ranges in high ELO, you're almost certainly only getting ONE chance, and at best you'll land 2 shots.

The pike will do what, like 40 damage a shot while the LH1 will do like 33 or 35(?)
You're HIGHLY unlikely to get a kill off that either way.

[acoustic patrol]

FUCK NO. SHOTGUNS GOT CRAZY RANGE.... it was a joke....i hope....

[fleet brook]

The new light shotgun can do some decent damage from farther out

[spiral pilot]

yeah its alright dmg, some poke i would say but nothing compared to model

[fleet brook]

I've gotten a decent pellet hit from 11-13

[hardy dust]

Except its on light. Pike being on medium makes it that much more powerful.

[vale mulch]

Do I need 4k messages for green role?

[late sequoia]

Both can be used to exceptional results, why would you think an uncontested plinker would get an advantage in a long-range fire fight situation over the guy who can literally press a button and get his own 5x speed personal zipline that also doesn't lock him into a pre-determined path that's easy to snipe you off of it?

[fleet brook]

Calling the LH a plinker is an understatement

[acoustic patrol]

plinker?

[late sequoia]

Light can fire a few shots, switch to another roof, and try again after each volley.
Medium gets ONE movement chance to swap locations and he's out a movement tool that he has to go back for or wait a LONG time to cool down (IF he can, assuming this isn't TA).

[late sequoia]

A gun you fire to significant effect per shot at long/extreme range and then relocate.

Not trying to kill, just trying to weaken th enemy before your confrontation.

IE, pop a medium at +50m a couple times in TA and by the time he gets up close to you he's nearly down to the health of a light.

[acoustic patrol]

kk, thx

[late sequoia]

Both the Pike and LH1 are pretty great plinkers, but the LH1 takes the cake for being the more reliable weapon when the enemy gets up close... and by a large margin.

[fleet brook]

Tbf I've spent a lot of time like 1 1/3 hours practicing quick scoping with the pike for fun And it's Pretty good up close

[spark igloo]

issue is that one is on the class that is supposed to do that and the other is on the support class

[fleet brook]

Med is the mid to long range class since launch

Lights always been more synamous with close to in your face movement class

[spiral pilot]

you cant really fight back a medium at decent range that has the pike. up close pike is a monster too its just good everywhere

[fleet brook]

Yeah I'm saying

Light isn't supposed to be both the leader of

Up close

Medium

And semi long range combat

[spark igloo]

heavy has always been the leader of up close

[fleet brook]

Light has great cqc medium ranges you've always had the LH and long range is the sniper

[spark igloo]

imo light should be able to speced around all 3 ranges

[fleet brook]

Which is weird that they're shotgun, in my experience is like the worst at it

[spark igloo]

sa12?

[late sequoia]

TBH, the Pike isn't OP, the medium's other (traditional firearm) guns are just trash in general.

The only AR of the 3 that's even remotely higher than a 3/10 pick is the FAMAS, and the Pike's better because they're both skill weapons that don't do well in the hands of low skill players, while the FAMAS' niche is having a 3x burst that effectively serves as a pseudo "ShotgunLite" when hip fired so a miss isn't necessarily missing all the damage in the shot.

[fleet brook]

But it shouldn't be the master of any imo

If you want all-rounder range class it can't be the objective best at one range

[spark igloo]

thats the thing tho, you spec into one range with it's gun varieties

[fleet brook]

Yeah the KS 23 is less a shotgun to me and more a bad destructive tool

[spark igloo]

sa12 is the best cqc weapon in the game lol. Ks is less of a cqc weapon than sa12 tbf

[restive plover]

light should be able to do all of them well, it has the lowest hp and should be able to dish out the most dmgh

[fleet brook]

My sweet DB has never betrayed me and never will tbf

Sa12 has the clunkiest feel of the shotguns to me

[fleet brook]

Then why play medium

Low HP doesn't matter if you can't fight back

[restive plover]

low hp does matter, having a slightly lower dps doesn't matter when the guy you're fighting has 100 less hp than you do

[fleet brook]

Like if you're a heavy vs a sniper light you're options are just take cover or eat rocks

Playing anything other than Pike on medium against a good LH user or sniper your options are eat rocks

If you're a light you can engage on them

[restive plover]

and all classes do have options for all ranges, each class has melee

[fleet brook]

Heavy doesn't have a long range option if has mid range in lewis

[late sequoia]

Light should be the hit-and-run class (at any range).
Not remotely good at flat-out killing med/heavies in a 1v1 gunfight, but AMAZING at jump scaring them to carve out a chunk of hp and have a friend follow up with the kill.

Medium's the all-arounder class.
Good at range, good up close, but not the BEST at either so to compensate he gets the best gadgets and abilities for supporting the team via health and manipulating the environment. (Hence why the Pike on Light and the LH1 on Medium would be a nightmare. LH1 is just brokenly super powered compared to the Pike).

Heavy is the CQC and team defender.

[fleet brook]

You're also coming at this from the perspective of a light main

[late sequoia]

I'm curious what gun you think Heavy will be taking up against an LH1 or Pike at +80m...

[fleet brook]

Ungodly Mgl shots could work idek if it proples the grenade that far

[restive plover]

nothing lmao, pike needs a nerf badly and LH1 can't do 80+ m

I've used LH1, it really just isn't effective at that range

[fleet brook]

@late sequoia you see light should be the only person who can fight mid range and you should just eat shit

[late sequoia]

[Insert Bender "Oh wait you're serious" meme]

[fleet brook]

If you can't contest the person shooting you their hp doesn't really matter

Also it lets them control a large amount of space for very minimal risk

[late sequoia]

Or if they move fast enough, their HP doesn't matter.

Regardless of range, as long as it's not melee vs melee and trapped in melee range at all times.

[spark igloo]

lh1 shouldnt be doing +80m lol

[fleet brook]

Tbf I'd rather fight a person who needs Adderall but it's close to mid range and we both got close to mid range weapons than someone who's really far away slowly whittling me down as I desperately try to close the distance because I can't fight him from that range

[restive plover]

it can't

[fleet brook]

Before pike your options for fighting a sniper as med or light was pretty much out of the question

Or a good LH 1 light

[spark igloo]

yeah ik, it should stay that way

[fleet brook]

I also really hate the slow whittling or the random burst of my hp being gone and I just have to accept this because I have no way to pressure them off there spot

[spark igloo]

well now sniper just cant do anything in ranges where any guns are giga outranged

[late sequoia]

Both Pike and LH1 aren't bad at it, tbh.
I generally only use it that way to fend off snipers (hitscan vs velocity at range makes it actually competitive now).

Not aiming to outright kill the sniper, just scare him off for a bit.

Of course, there's always the guy who sticks around longer than he should and I get the occassional kill anyway.

[restive plover]

situational awareness issue

[fleet brook]

No it's more like

BAM (you've lost a bunch of HP)

Me starts playing around cover

Fight happens and since I'm currently focused on my 1 and semi immediate surroundings I'm not expecting from DOWNTOWN

BAM for a chunk of my hp to just dissaper

[late sequoia]

Only if you're talking someone taking multiple shots in one event.
A total suckerpunch shot by a flanking pre-balanced SR84 used to be understandable on anyone.

TA was a crap shoot at times thanks to this.

[restive plover]

snipers have a glare you can see

[fleet brook]

My annoyance is the first shot and me knowing I can't force them off so they just get to push me around

[restive plover]

cloaks will shimmer as well

[fleet brook]

Thank you for that information. Now wtf am I supposed to do with it when I'm playing heavy / med and I'm in a fight

Just turn around and hit the craziest shot of my life on a light that's 30-40M out maybe 50+ rarely

And the shimmer is only if they're adsing

[restive plover]

don't let the enemy dictate where you fight

take your fights in cover and keep track of who you see on the enemy team and who you don't

[late sequoia]

But they don't have to ADS to see your motion blur at range, so a decently skilled quickscoper can dunk a shot on you from the peripheral( or outside your FOV entirely) in less than a second.

NO level of skill can combat that.

[fleet brook]

Idk a weapon that can just chunk my HP down kinda dictates where I can fight and where I can't

[restive plover]

no it doesn't, just force the enemy to come to you

[fleet brook]

Also you can keep track of where you were last sniper shot

Good snipers move

Sniper lights are usually playing with a defensive advantage/ a good one will just quick scope you and by the time you look around there's no light

And at 40-50+ no one is easily identifying a shimmer

[late sequoia]

Yep.
A key difference between Light and a Pike user.
Pike users don't have the luxury of swapping roof tops after every attempt, given that these aren't +30min long matches and just going one roof over to the left/right doesn't exactly count as repositioning.

[restive plover]

are you just saying that ambushing and burst dmg weapons need to be removed entirely?

[fleet brook]

Unless it's a sniper duel

[restive plover]

mediums have jump pads and ziplines, there is no world in which a pike is not overpowered

[fleet brook]

This is waffles and pancakes but

I'm saying the HP of a target that I physically can't respond too doesn't really matter

[restive plover]

it definitely does, I've ambushed a heavy then just been charged into oblivion because they turned around and pressed Q

[fleet brook]

Basically after the first shot sniper lights just say "I've taken a chunk of your hp you don't get to play the game anywhere there isn't cover for the rest of the match"

[fleet brook]

Why are you playing sniper light that close if I may ask

[restive plover]

I play sword, I thought we were talking about all high burst dmg weapons

[fleet brook]

I can respond to a sword easily

Sniper being an uncontested range weapon for like 2 seasons is what I was talking about

[restive plover]

tbh I've not found snipers that oppressive, so long as you know where they are

[late sequoia]

Congrats, that buys them ONE roof swap (to a roof top far enough away to actually count as properly repositioning) for the zipline (which is prominently displayed with a literal trail pointing to the new location you moved to), and about 1/3rd of a roof swap for the jump pad (1/2, if the pad is angled).

[restive plover]

they can also just walk to a new roof

[teal horizon]

Is the KS-23 doodoo right now? I land shots but the fire rate is so slow I just insta die before I do any substantial damage

[late sequoia]

"Why fly from L'Agulhas, South Africa to Magadan, Russia when you can just walk it? It's only 14,000 miles!"

By the time you make it there and up to the top of the building, 9 times out of 10 the fight will be over and your vantage point will no longer have line of sight on the new fight's location.

A guy with a grapple can keep up.
A medium generally can't after that first roof swap. (Especially in TA, where you get ONE zipline, and have to go back for your jump pad).

[restive plover]

top of a building is like 2 feet away, just run

maybe I'm thinking of a different map, since most I remember have buildings close together

[late sequoia]

2 feet away isn't a roof change, it's a joke.

[restive plover]

are we really arguing that the pike isn't overpowered because mediums can't move fast enough (they have jump pad)????

[late sequoia]

You change positions so the enemy looking for you to their North at 0 degrees is suddenly getting shot by the NEW roof (far away from the old roof) to the north east at 50-70 degrees

[restive plover]

have you tried watching the incredibly obvious and visible grappling hook?

why are you even checking their original position still expecting them to be there if you know they aren't?

[late sequoia]

Generally you want to break line of sight by jumping down to street level, then grappling up (where the grapple and you are very well hidden) some distance away.

Then you walk a little bit across the roof tops to get to a further location.

Zipline's the obvious one.
You either take time to destroy it (with your butt in plain view for the enemy to spot you as you melee it after reaching the destination) or it stays behind to say "This way, he went this way!"

[restive plover]

have you tried looking at the roofs and noticing the sniper there?

the sniper doesn't even one shot and it has fall off past 40m

you can just get to cover before they shoot again or throw a goo grenade

[pseudo ember]

sniper is kinda bad outside of TA from my experience people will just hide after getting shot once

[restive plover]

pike is definitely stronger than sniper

[pseudo ember]

medium in general is very powerful because of defib

please make it so when a medium gets revived by defib it goes on cooldown

[vale mulch]

Glitch grenade should reverse the defib animation

[restive plover]

Defibs should crash the game for the defiber and the defibed

[pseudo ember]

W change

[spiral pilot]

nerf pike a medium should not have a weapon that strong

[solid rover]

pike should just either not be hit scan or have some bullet damege fall off

also WHY DOES SNIPER NOT HAVE LINES ON THE SCOPE

its so bad like the pike has it and it does not even need it where as sniper does

[nocturne lark]

this has been the worst return to ranked i could imagine. are they nerfing the GL40 tomorrow? its removed all skill from matchmaking. every match its just splash damage bs. so incredibly not fun

[timber sparrow]

Nerf the dual blades theyre so OP

[restive plover]

this is true, I sat perfectly still and shot at dual blades and they didn’t die

[main axle]

Delete cl-40 is so pathetic gun for pathetic players

[neat cargo]

You can counter it if you don’t like it by going up to them because it deals high self damage or using the bubble shield

[restive plover]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-the-finals-skill-issue-gif-9109889277599560089

[restive plover]

Or just taking elevation. Even if you're both super high up just take a goo barrel and auto-win.

[crisp heart]

Medium mains panicking because it's nerf day

[restive plover]

That's not till tomorrow.

[hallow leaf]

cl-40 better get a nerf i cant deal with the cl-no skill any longer

going to have to swap to siege or something if that shit doesnt get nerfed

[crisp heart]

They are pretty much pressured to do so, if they don't, then it's another week of cries for cl nerf

[gentle coral]

is there a spread sheet for damage drop off ranges, im trying to see what it is for the m60 and why it feels like a pea shooter

[restive plover]

Damage drop off starts at 25 meters and ends at 32.5 if I remember correctly. At the very end of the curve it's in the single digits.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ud7Rdl3AgMw9mmfDwW2LtDMnzZQ9IIhnqSE4ivsaMTs/edit?usp=drivesdk

[crisp heart]

Reddit

[gentle coral]

good looks gango

[restive plover]

Ew.

[crisp heart]

Just because you use reddit, doesn't mean they won't nerf cl

[fleet brook]

Tbf I feel like this community cries and begs for nerfs so embark just kills something to shut up whiny man children

[gentle coral]

if u dont think the cl40 needs a little tweaking u might just be ed in the head

[restive plover]

Would be a shame if they did, especially if it takes the place of an actually important balance change.

[fleet brook]

And honestly I don't see the point of making "low skill weapons" or what the community will deem "low skill weapons" if you're just gonna gut them

[fleet brook]

No I don't see the point in the devs playing buff nerf hot potato

[crisp heart]

Medium mains panicking because of nerf day

[fleet brook]

I play H/ L

[crisp heart]

Good to know.
Medium mains panicking because of nerf day

[neat cargo]

Hoping model 1887 doesn’t get nerfed

[fleet brook]

I thought you were saying I was special like the last guy

[fleet brook]

If you can't see embarks history you might need a helmet

[crisp heart]

Oh, then medium mains + you are panicking because of nerf day

[restive plover]

I think this one's broken.

[hallow leaf]

i main med and have always hated the cl-no skill

[crisp heart]

The CL? Trueee

[restive plover]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-damage-gif-26047154

[fleet brook]

I just don't like non options in my game

Or placebo options idk if you guys know what that means

[shell sonnet]

What do you all think about a rate of fire nerf for cl?

I think a damage nerf wouldnt be good as it might leave people at single digit hp again (alongside the 100% accuracy issue for killing heavis)

So maybe rate of fire would be a good place to nerf?

[crisp heart]

The AOE radius

[hallow leaf]

the issue is with its design. im fine with it having good direct hit damage my issue is it has good blast damage as well, they need to nerf it to where direct hit is 100-105 damage and blast damage max is 85

[shell sonnet]

Its a splash weapon

A splash nerf would either not matter, or matter too much and leave it as a worse model

I think it should be something else, what do you think about my suggestion?

[hallow leaf]

it should be a worse model its a no skill noob tube

[crisp heart]

You're talking about the MGL.

[shell sonnet]

Then it just screws over high level players that actually want to have fun

[hallow leaf]

cl is an impact it should have decent direct hit and worse spash

it shouldnt have good spash if its going to have good direct hit as well

[urban nova]

i just played against a full cl-40 squad and its just awful to play against that

[crisp heart]

And the bow is a worse DMR, but you don't see people complaining about it

[hallow leaf]

either make it 100-105 on direct hit and have worse spash damage or nerf that thing back to 93 damage

[shell sonnet]

Just that it will never be a good direct hit choice as long as model exists

Cl deals less damage
Has less ammo
On top of being a projectile

At that piutn just go model

[hallow leaf]

if you dont want it to be a good direct hit weapon then nerf that thing back to 93 damage where it belongs

[shell sonnet]

Why exactly are we opposed to a rate of fire nerf again?

There is a place where it has the same ttk as 93 damage cl, just that it feels way better because enemies arent being left at 5 hp

[hallow leaf]

i would even be okay with it having 95-100 damage but 117 its not okay

idk why the dev thought that buffing its damage by 24 damage was a good idea but they just need to remove this shit balance team already

[shell sonnet]

They literally explained it in the dev notes though

[hallow leaf]

yeah and its fucking stupid

the balace team is what needs a rework the most

[shell sonnet]

But why go back to something that the devs didnt want for this game?

They dont buff something without reason

The least we can do is try again but with a different factor

Otherwise we gained nothing

Hence my rate of fire suggestion

[crisp heart]

We gained more players playing the game

[shell sonnet]

Mb, im stupid

[hallow leaf]

if they want it to kill a heavy in 3 shots then make its rate of fire slower and make reduce its mag to 3 shots

[shell sonnet]

They wanted it to kill a heavy in 3 shots
And its mag size is already 4

What are you talking about

[shell sonnet]

Meh, rather we lost some people to it

If we just go back, those that left will have left for nothing

Or at most return

We havent gained anything, where if we change something else, those people will still return, but we have a chance at fixing a weapon for good, getting it fun and balanced

[crisp heart]

Player count 1

[shell sonnet]

Then we have the 100% accuracy issue again
But now for mediums too

[hallow leaf]

good

[crisp heart]

If the bow and KS can do it, why not the CL

[hallow leaf]

fuck that weapon

they need to stop balancing things to make it easier to kill heavies (unless its dual blades)

it just fucks over meds

[shell sonnet]

Bow is a single shot weapon with basically an infinite clip but slow rof

And im pretty sure ks doesnt need 100% accuracy to kill anything

[crisp heart]

A slug shot gun with projectile bullets.

[shell sonnet]

Yes, your point being?

[crisp heart]

Just aim better

[sand monolith]

it was completely fine. they just forgot the fire rate nerf

[shell sonnet]

I did see it in the patch notes, did that not apply?

[shell sonnet]

I think youre misunderstanding something

[sand monolith]

yep its completely missing in game lol

[shell sonnet]

There we go

I do wonder why they didnt fix that yet...

[hallow leaf]

i still think the best nerf to the cl-no skill is making its direct hit 95-105 and making its splash damage do a max of 80% of that

[sand monolith]

making it direct hit would make it terrible

[shell sonnet]

Just a worse model

[hallow leaf]

direct hits should be its thing if you want a spash damage gl then just the heavy gl

[crisp heart]

Exactly

[sand monolith]

it would just be a low skill and worse model if it was direct hit. its main strength is group splash damage. play to that

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, just dont mind the playstyles and fun factor youre killing off

[hallow leaf]

if you all want its spash damage then make it bounce once like the heavy gl

[shell sonnet]

There are way to make it fair and fun besides taking it out back and shooting it

[sand monolith]

impact splash is fine on a primary weapon

[hallow leaf]

GOOD fuck the no skill play style

[sand monolith]

lack of aim doesnt mean no skill

if you nerf its fire rate it would actually become a fairly higher skill weapon due to how much it would eat shit in direct 1v1s

you would REALLY have to play to its strengths after a fire rate nerf. extreme positioning weapon

[shell sonnet]

I dont want to go back to the state where lights get shot down to 5 hp because they were slightly further away than right at the feets

[crisp heart]

Then aim better

[sand monolith]

also yeah linear splash damage is good i dont know why people want it gone

[hallow leaf]

it does in an fps game

[sand monolith]

no it doesnt. aim is FAR from the only skill in this game

[crisp heart]

Shooter games doesn't need to aim?

[sand monolith]

dagger is no skill 😔

[hallow leaf]

ik its wild right

[sand monolith]

thinking about this

[hallow leaf]

now we are compairing a ranged weapon to a melee one....

[shell sonnet]

Funny that, its a projectile
If an enemy has any time to react they can just jump and sidestep it cut its damage by half if it doesnt miss outright

Unless youre point blank, in which case you eat 75% of the damage

So much for that

[sand monolith]

cl-40 haters watching someone take highground and become nearly invincible to the weapon

[fleet brook]

Light mains frothing at the mouth for an easier match up (not throwing shade I just read your roles and thought of a joke)

[shell sonnet]

Make reflecs 100% accurate
(Or close to that)

Maybe let them do headshots?

And fix the final combo attack

[fleet brook]

Ya know this could go for any weapon that requires minimal to basic tracking right?

[sand monolith]

embark found a way to add spread to a melee weapon bruh i cant believe it

[fleet brook]

Wouldn't that be a better sheild?

[shell sonnet]

Still take damage from it

Id rather have its main gimmik be more consistent/ strong
At higher cost

[sand monolith]

dual blades should be buffed offensively and slightly nerfed damage reduction. as well as getting a gap closing lunge attack when you attack while blocking

[shell sonnet]

Let the medium take more damage from reflecs, but in return theyre more powerful

Makes the difference between riot and duals bigger and solidifies their roles

[sand monolith]

^^^^^^^^^^

[shell sonnet]

Kinda wonder if that could/should be applied to other weapons

More distinct differences to solidify roles

[fleet brook]

Any shotgun (look in general direction/ center mass click)

Any grenade launcher

Anything that does area damage or isn't hit scan

And by this logic most projectile guns should be buffed because they take more skill than hit scan

[shell sonnet]

Kinda hoped that would happen to famas, slower but stronger bursts

But then it would likely 1-shot lights, not good

[fleet brook]

Melee is close gap look in general direction

[shell sonnet]

I love positioning and movement weapons

Still gotta get around dagger though, the changes are really throwing me off

Did they consider this a buff?

[fleet brook]

And I want more in my fps then basic bitch hits can weapons if I wanted that I'd play cod

[fleet brook]

Yes because if you store it right or just use rat tactics the back dash combo became alot less situational and easier

[shell sonnet]

You mean face stabs?

[fleet brook]

Dash stabs sounds cooler in my brain and breaks downs the steps in the name but yes

[shell sonnet]

I wonder if all known tf2 spy trickstabs have been pulled off in the finals yet

[sand monolith]

i like the change but i wish you could just click rmb to use the old stab

[shell sonnet]

Same, really need that back

Also bring back muti hits

I just wanna poke some people that forget dagger doesnt actually suck

Double kill into butter knive the last guy for a wipe was so nice

I like to smoke up the cashout and the ambush people using thermal vision

Its decently effective, but i feel like im screwing over my teammates because they cant see anything

Im thinking about potentially making it only block vision for yourself and enemies
(like, making the main smoke body see through and only having the edge be visible, so they know when theyre hidden)

Kind of like soldiers stinkbomb from pvz

Thats something flash should also kind of do, but i dont think its without reason

What may be the balancing though behind having it apply to teammates?

[crisp heart]

Tell that to the loch-n-load demos in tf2.

[shell sonnet]

Which is a meme pick at best unless there are a ton of sentries
While also having increased projectile speed

[restive plover]

An entirely different weapon in an entirely different game.

Which does, if I'm not mistaken, have a reputation for being worse and lower skill than demo's splash based primaries.

[crisp heart]

Okay, med main, you can stop seething now. Nerf day has yet to come

[restive plover]

I don't even use the cl40, I am simply opposed to senseless nerfs. It's the same sort of attitude that got dash and cloak nerfed when they didn't need it.

[crisp heart]

😭

[pseudo swallow]

New thingy idea

DROPKICK: a dropkick specialization for (probably) medium class. Knocks enemies backward about 10 meters, and deals 100 damage. Recharges in around 25 seconds. Highly close range attack.

Tell me your ideas and improvements youd make to this

[sand monolith]

i actually really like this but i dont think it should do so much damage and it should also recharge a little bit faster

since medium is generally weaker up close (when using a balanced weapon) than the other classes, this would be a great way to push someone away if they jump you. back to a distance you're safer from

[pseudo swallow]

Great point, i wanted to go with utility more than damage on this one, so maybe doing only 1/5 of the enemies health (regardless of class) would be a better solution, as pushing the enemy away is intended to be the dropkicks primary function when i had it in mind

[sand monolith]

% damage would be sick actually yeah

[pseudo swallow]

Ima be real, i was hoping when they nerfed rpg, theyd balance it using % damage but ill take the 100 dmg i guess 😔

[restive plover]

A percentage of total or current health?

[pseudo swallow]

% of the classes max hp (although a % of current hp for some future attack could be an AWESOME concept )

[royal pier]

Winch + Spear might be kinda goated now that they fixed the spin.

[royal pier]

Once you accept that the best combo is to basically do one stab and spin the rest, they die pretty damn fast.

Slide towards them while spinning

Winch will sometimes do wacky shit like fling people halfway across the map, though.

[pseudo swallow]

Put this in #heavy-build-main , i wanna see what they have to say about this!

Wench + sledge has been better for a while but maybe with the spin fixed that changed

[sick junco]

yes

[coarse sigil]

i heard that the medium semi auto rifle was good but i just dont really understand why i have the sight not on it so thats not it is there anything im missing?

[pseudo swallow]

Sounds like a bug. Reload the game or try purchasing and equipping the both sights for it.

[coarse sigil]

i think i typed it wrong i meant that i have the iron sights equipped and that didnt make it better for me. but i have heard from lots of people that its a good gun so i was wondering if im missing some sort of strategy to make it better or smthn

[fervent arrow]

woah they fixed the spin? since when?

[pseudo swallow]

Iron sights + custom crosshair or something like that would probably work wonders for you. The finals loves using motion to put the sight not where the gun is actually firing for realism.

[coarse sigil]

oh like a different app that overlays a crosshair?

[pseudo swallow]

But in my opinion, just use the scope. It works pretty well too

[pseudo swallow]

Sounds right. Ive never used one but for your issue it might be the key

[coarse sigil]

i hope so, thanks

[pseudo swallow]

Tell me how it works out for you after u try it!

[coarse sigil]

alr it might be a little bit though since i dont know any good crosshair apps

[atomic scaffold]

nerf sword

[late sequoia]

I played against a full Lewis gun team almost a month back, THAT was miserable.

Any half-decent gun used in groups by skilled players is a pain

[wooden glade]

cl-40 is too much. Self damage should be doubled at least. or the damage lowered. Not out of anger but this overtuning is so frustrating

[spark turtle]

most people from bronze to plat are running triple medium all with CL, Glitch mine, triple turret or heal beam, defib and movement equipment. meaning on a cash out you got to kill them 6 times while destroying 3 turrets while finding and dealing with 6 glitch mines.

glitch mines need a time or usage nerf. they are just infinite glitch nade.

CL needs no skill just run and jump and spam or surround and spam into the room all 3 doing it will destroy any defenses and kill/damage everyone.

heal beam should’ve been the specialization to get a timer for deploy use not mesh shield

defib will always be broken but unless you make it so you can interrupt the defib process it’s fine as is.

the pike is gods weapon across the map or close by 2-3 shots melt a light bc they shoot so fast and 3-5 melt a heavy bc mesh is no longer a thing.

[late sequoia]

I've yet to have an issue against it.
Nothing that's not an issue almost identical against squads of shotgunners or GL heavies.

[maiden atlas]

I feel like light kind of got gutted since season 1

[spark turtle]

heavy teams have usually 1 medium meaning you only have to kill the medium first or kill a heavy twice. they have no movement tech so you can escape. the shotguns shoot slow enough you can dodge the shots if your smart or the enemy has bad aim. GL on a heavy is like playing a nerfed medium with CL40. it’s slower movement slower reload no defib or heals since heavy’s mesh shield nerf that made it useless they can’t escape either.

mediums have movement have heals and revives a short reload. the GL40 does practically no damage to medium so they can just floor spam it as you run and jump. no aim needed the rooms are small enough for any shot to land any shot

i’ve played light sword since season 1 i’m almost plat rn this season is just mediums with CL, Pike, 18(shotgun). the pike and CL are the 2 most broken in the meta rn.

heavy feels gutted, light feels killed.

[unique swallow]

Buff tracking dart

[tranquil rose]

Is the medium's pike that op? I felt it's hip-fire accuracy was pretty terrible, along with somewhat spray while shooting with ads and bullet velocity begin slow

[sand monolith]

It is the best weapon in the game and the 3rd best weapon this game has ever seen

[maiden atlas]

It just feels really oppressive to fight at range

[sand monolith]

Above it would be old Fcar and old sa1216

[spark turtle]

in high elo you can just spam the pike close enough to land your enough shots to kill a player. it’s 2-3 for a light so in a second or so for ttk based on luck. 3-5 shots for heavy and they got a larger and slower model. so the pike melts close up and from a far

[sand monolith]

Using it up close is clunky but once you get past that initial clunkiness it’s just the best shit in the game hands down

[tranquil rose]

Oh I see

[spark turtle]

i’ve seen people use the pike with scope to attack from across the map and still destroy close up.

[sand monolith]

I hope it gets nerfed in a way that just makes it more committal to long range. Instead of gutting it entirely

[spark turtle]

i don’t want it gutted it’s actually a weapon i can enjoy as a light main but holy is it broken

[vale mulch]

Tomorrows patch will make Ksi's new song blast on kyoto

[sand monolith]

The fact it’s just a better lh1 is so funny

[spark turtle]

it can kill a light faster than a light can kill you with an m11 all shots landed

[late sequoia]

I don't get why people complain about guns actually being FUN to use, rather than ask for the other guns to be made more fun as well.

Truly amazing.

"Yes, these 3 donuts aren't moldy, the other 9 are... where's your quality control! Get mold on these 3 ASAP!"

[spark turtle]

i think it needs a damage nerf or maybe a speed nerf for its shots and reload. unloading 12 shots and reloading to unload another 12 when 3 is needed at min to kill a light med or heavy is insane rn

[late sequoia]

There are SO many more weapons that are underperforming out there, we don't need yet more nerfs on stuff that's just finally become good.

[spark turtle]

balancing is important if all weapons kill in 2 shots or in quick speed the game will get boring. weapons should have play styles people can learn to play with and make there own

a sniper shouldnt be a shotgun and demolish any class from across the map or close up

[late sequoia]

What pike are you using that you think it's REMOTELY like a shotgun, yet the LH1 isn't?

[restive plover]

crazy how I’m a Xbox player that’s plat in lobbies with only pc players that are low silver meaning I make 400 points of a win but most definitely gonna lose first or second round to the cl meta

[late sequoia]

It's hipfire is truly mediocre at best, while the LH1's is the same but has a faster fire rate and more ammo to spam-fire it.

If you're landing nothing but head shots at those ranges with hipfire, you either couldn't possibly miss if you tried they're so close, or you're the reincarnation of Timothy Dexter.

[spark turtle]

dude have you played high elo or even power shift. you can just run in with the pike and hip fire 3-4 shots and destroy any and all class types

the spread isn’t wide it’s perfect for close or distance fights.

[late sequoia]

aim assisted player
No wonder. -_-

Guns shouldn't be balanced around heavy handed aim assist that makes a shot 50cm over the shoulder turn into a perfect head shot every time.

[spark turtle]

if you can shoot a sniper and kill a light or heavy within a second the weapon is broken

[late sequoia]

Crossplay should never exist between console and PC for pvp FPS games.
Even Halo never managed to get it right, and they've been at it over 2 decades

[late sequoia]

You just named like half the Light's arsenal, and a few on Heavy as well.

Medium's finally got something worthwhile and people lose their sht.

[spark turtle]

the lights sniper is 1 shot with slow reload. this pike is insane speed insane damage insane hip and aim shot area

[crisp heart]

I like how he said sniper and your first thought was the pike

[late sequoia]

Oh, so there was no comparison in that statement?
We're a-okay with the pike, it's not included in this comparison or conversation?

Good!
We can leave it as-is then.

[spark turtle]

mediums have had the rifle meta under lock since season 1. it was such an issue they had to balance them every season to this season they are still broken but at least require skill for constant damage

[late sequoia]

TBH, pike takes more skill than the LH1 has for 2+ seasons.

Last season, I practically didn't need to do anything but run dash or cloaker light and use the LH1 as a hipfire shotgun.

Wiped heavies with ease, and everything else.

[spark turtle]

lights have 150 health 1 shot and an elbow kills them. heavies are slow and now no longer have any shielding due to mesh nerf making them slow large targets.

mediums have movement regen heals and damage for far range or close up

there is no comparison

[crisp heart]

Nah, give the players what they want. Nerf cl and nerf pike

[late sequoia]

If they're inept and practically stand still so you can head shot them, sure.

But generally, the fastest class with the hitbox of a raisin and an anime teleports-behind-you ability doesn't like to do that.

[crisp heart]

Or you can buff all of L and H weapons so that all Light melees can 1 shot Mediums, XP and M11 can kill Mediums and heavies in 3 bullets in any range. And M60 will be a laserbeam.

You know, to make all the moldy doughnuts, fresh

Does that sound fun to you?

[spark turtle]

especially with 3 mediums you can run 3 CL or Pike, heal beam or turret, defib, glitch mine, and a movement.

so compared to heavies that have no meta weapons maybe the pistols if you’d like to argue it, have no movement, no shield now

lights have no meta weapon i fact i rarely if i can even remember have seen any light since i’ve gotten to gold-plat. other than myself lights don’t exist in ranked anymore

[arctic fog]

It's going to be a season for mediums

[spark turtle]

dash nerf makes it worse since it only takes half a second to kill a light with head shots or 3 on body

[restive plover]

So done trying my ass off in sliver lobbies to make 400 points

[spark turtle]

that’s forsure it’s made the game boring. even higher elo like diamond and ruby are pure mediums no heavies or lights(not like there was any in higher elo)

[arctic fog]

If I have to go up against another team of mediums using cl40s and pike I'm gonna lose it

[spark turtle]

grab that CL, Turret, Defib, Glitch mine, and a movement and you’ll rise the rank like cake. just run and shoot the floor or your feet

[spark turtle]

i played like 4 games today each and all i reached the final round i think i saw only one time it’s a heavy no lights other than me. the only benefit to having everyone use the pure medium meta, is you learn how to play around them. but it sucks walking into a room and 3 andes land at the door way and wipe me and my teammate while they camp above with 3 turrets at a door and glitch mines all around

[arctic fog]

The meta is ridiculous. The cl40 does more damage than the RPG. In what context does that make sense?

[spark turtle]

don’t forget the CL40 also does practically no damage to the user letting them run and spam it with no consequences

[jade violet]

who can tell me which is official email

I want to send email to official

[reef vector]

ENGIMO on top

the xp-54 skin you get is so good

[latent vine]

I’ve been using light M11 (with sight) and running dash, invis grenade, glitch, frag. And it’s been fun and pretty overpowered with a proper team.

[crisp heart]

too bad you won't use it until they balance out xp

[reef vector]

Tru

[craggy crystal]

I think we need a CL-40 nerf and for the love of god give L throwing knives amo

[crisp heart]

they do have ammo. 2 knives and they automatically reload everytime they fire

if only they throw the knives one at a time with a slow RoF.

[brisk lake]

which is a better weapon to use rn xp or m11

i always leave a little bit of health with the xp

[icy forge]

I'd say m11 because of the nerf the xp received

[brisk lake]

they both have the same base dmg right?

[worldly heart]

I need M4 / Mk18 for new gun

[brisk lake]

just the xp has less recoil

[icy forge]

Idk honestly, I am a heavy main so, I never looked for the dmg of these 2 weapons

[brisk lake]

oh my greatest enemy 😂😂

i used to play light now im finding a better time with medium and model 1887

but i still like the little rat

i just dont play it in rankeed

[icy forge]

My favorite job is insect extermination 😂, I used to play medium but heavy is the class I main now

[obsidian nexus]

pike is the most unfun weapon to play against. and this is the most horrendous take ive ever seen someone give

[old jewel]

Yes, but the m11 has a much faster fire rate and larger magazines plus faster reload so its generally better than the xp

[brisk lake]

yh thats why im rocking the m11

[old jewel]

Id use it more if i could memorize the recoil pattern better

[brisk lake]

im more of a close range

i dont have the aim to be at a farther range

nor the mouse

[old jewel]

Fair enough tbh

[brisk lake]

your bio is kinda an attack on mine

😂

[old jewel]

😭🙏

[brisk lake]

i needed more space to be honest

[crisp heart]

imagine if the model uses slugs, that'll be funny

[unkempt quarry]

whats best gun to use to grind out this contract 50 headshots?

[brisk lake]

something with high dmg i guess

like model prob

[unkempt quarry]

but from 50 meters or more

[wet goblet]

Fcar or something ig

[wicked grove]

Why is pike in S tier? Put it back in B where it belongs

[brisk lake]

oohhhhhhhhh

[wicked grove]

(This is clearly not bait)

[plain wasp]

V9s above LH1 is crazy

Xp too

Really there should be nothing from light above LH1

[wintry crane]

Thats a very season 3 take ngl.
The damage nerf for XP made it so it takes a lot longer and multiple mags to kill people from longer ranges.
Not to mention the scope given to M11 made it much more consistent at short to mid ranges.

Scoped V9S goes crazy, it already had just as much dps as pre nerf xp beforehand, now it's easier to get it with

[plain wasp]

I mean LH1 got a scope too

[wintry crane]

It also got multiple damage nerfs over long distances, making it a gimped pike

[hazy hemlock]

Along with nerfs reducing its usefulness the ranges your playing lh1 atm are ranges other classes outgun you for free at in the meta rn it WAS a contender for best but it's nerfs combined with power creeps from scopes make it 100% worse, still solid but in a spot where as a light it's just better to run other stuff

Then the xp

The smaller clip plus damage nerfs make it so the m11 out shines it in the same ranges that it prefers the only upside being xp CAN be used at long ranges but the damage is no negligible and you shouldn't really be engaging that far anyway with it so m11 takes the spot. Look up a video on controlling the m11 recoil and look at how consistent it is tbh

This is from a former lh1 enjoyer+xp abuser

[plain wasp]

I've been an LH1 enjoyer since s1 when it did 45 damage

And the scope doesn't affect it thattt much for me, it's just generally easier to tell what's actually happening

[hazy hemlock]

I mean other weapons scopes power creep it my fault for not clarifying

It's solid just not anywhere near the top anymore sadly

[brisk lake]

yh light doesnt have the range advantage anm with existence of pike and deagles

[swift cradle]

Mgl belongs at the bottom in a tier of its own

It's interesting seeing the lh1 nerfs and then the pike on release being pretty much the same if not better.

[west isle]

Famas with a sight

[jolly spindle]

And buffed lewis

[bitter surge]

SA1216 rise up when ?

That spread needs some love

[wintry crane]

Yeah nah it's not worse than a single weapon in the tiers below it

[hazy hemlock]

Scoped m60 as well

[brisk lake]

the m60 is better no?

[vale mulch]

Mgl deserves the buff more than cl40 because mgl32 requires a brain to use

[wintry crane]

MGL is in a fine place, the bounce mechanics keeps it balanced

[unkempt quarry]

Do i have all season to get the circuit reward?

[cyan bobcat]

add hellfire missiles

[jolly spindle]

I think they are comparably good.

[brisk lake]

lewis recoil is crazy idk about dmg and mag size im not a heavy main

[vale mulch]

Lewis got a recoil buff

Way easier to use now

[cyan bobcat]

lewis needs red dot

then i'd play with it

[vale mulch]

Lewis has rlly good iron sights so not really

[brisk lake]

they should buff the model to fire explosive rounds

it should 1 shot lights

[spiral pilot]

devs, please fix this skin > its going of slower than non skin goo grenades, basically this is a nerf

[bitter surge]

U SURE ?! 😨

[spiral pilot]

yes

[bitter surge]

Wow

Didn’t know that..

[spiral pilot]

its no huge difference but playing with goo as light you have to be really quick in doing so, i felt a difference when switching to normal skin

and someone else mentioned it also

[heavy tusk]

it could be that the hitboxes don't properly account for the new shape of the grenade, making it go off seemingly later than it should

[craggy crystal]

i hate that i use the R .357, i have 6 shot that each do 74dps if i miss it takes 2.50s to reload, in the meantime throwing Knives do 60/90 dps and you dont need to reload... how is this balance ?

[brisk lake]

i think the pike takes the crown from the revolver

[cyan bobcat]

it does

[shut bane]

Buff revolver then

[brisk lake]

medium is strong enough

[heavy tusk]

.357 still has the advantage in close range skirmishes, especially since it gets the handgun 2x headshot multiplier

[brisk lake]

but it is has insane kick

[cyan bobcat]

does .357 1 shot lights on heads?

[brisk lake]

pls no

💀💀

i saw it should for one sec

[heavy tusk]

two damage off from a OHKO, but at that point you can sneeze on them and they'd be dead ||as if you couldn't already ||

[cyan bobcat]

it should do them like 149 dmg on headshot so ppl get rly mad

[brisk lake]

lmao

[gray wagon]

the cl-40 be broken...

[cyan bobcat]

we need .50 barrett for heavy

[brisk lake]

i think is that ppl dont know how to counter it

you dont see much cl40 play in higher ranks but i do see it a lot in silver

[heavy tusk]

R . 357

• Increased headshot damage from 148 to 149 (we felt that it was too weak in the current season's meta)

[brisk lake]

and it is annoying

[heavy tusk]

it's almost worth it to watch a space+m1 medium blow themselves up from time to time

[heavy tusk]

it needs to be that ugly bullpup barrett with no stock

[cyan bobcat]

YES

make it shoot THROUGH walls

[brisk lake]

make it automatic

[cyan bobcat]

:trollface:

[brisk lake]

and explosive rounds

[brisk lake]

those who know

[heavy tusk]

the wallbuster class having a weapon that bypasses walls would be interesting to see

[brisk lake]

that just seems like a heavy with a charge and slam

[heavy tusk]

"It's me. I'm the .50 BMG."

[cyan bobcat]

then give light 3 round .50 bmg revolver with same attributes but less accurate

but seriously, we need to increase flamethrower range.

https://tenor.com/view/tank-fire-gif-27295119

embed fail but this is what actual flamethrowers can do

[heavy tusk]

if Embark did this i'd be fine with the lewis gun being sacrificed/modified

change the model from a pan mag to an oil pan and have it spit fire

[cyan bobcat]

they should have given spear a naginata skin in s3

[heavy tusk]

I've been saying that was a missed opportunity since Season 2 started

[cyan bobcat]

yeah. the snake bamboo skin was ahh

[heavy tusk]

snake on a stick was cool, but having a naginata would have worked way better aesthetically

[cyan bobcat]

yup

[heavy tusk]

I still stand by this too

[cyan bobcat]

comically large spoon is still my fav melee weapon skin though

[heavy tusk]

all we need is a fork and knife skin for the dual blades and we can complete the dive into beating people to death with cutlery

alternatively a knife sharpener and cutting board skin for the riot shield

[spiral pilot]

put the proximity sensor back on light class

[charred snow]

Maybe a medieval sword and shield for riot as well 🤔🤔

[obsidian escarp]

The motion sensor is underrated, I tried it for my previous match and got 17 kills having ok aim, it’s literally wall hack for 100% success rate for charge and slam

[spiral pilot]

Charge and nerf needs to be rebalanced, nerf the charge dmg and buff the slam dmg. and maybe add a little more cooldown

[arctic fog]

Yeah I love using it with the sledgehammer now. It's also good to find out if somebody is chasing you.

[vale mulch]

Keep motion in your reserve for final round 👍

[fleet brook]

Adding a little more CD is kinda dumb

[soft dust]

What's the current Light Meta?

[fleet brook]

Also the game is very much ranged based so playing close enough to get slammed is great

[crisp heart]

M11,v9s

[soft dust]

Wow that's like the exact opposite of what I'm running, no wonder I'm shitting the bed

[fleet brook]

93R

I run grapple good movement and verticality

[vale mulch]

grapple 93r thermal bore thermal vision tracking dart

[spiral pilot]

why is it dumb? you can spam charge and slam

[vague monolith]

Don't nerf charge and slam, it's the only fun ability left. Make goo gun have a passive reload that has a cool down about as long as CS cool down, and give winch different cool downs depending on what you grab, with people and missing having the longest cool downs. Stop fucking nerfing everything remotely fun

[cyan bobcat]

we need medium or light jetpack

[icy sparrow]

@final lotus what if medium had an ability like gel gun and if u use it on vertical wall the u can run on walls for all team mates?
If u use pyro bomb then it burns for traps

[fleet imp]

Charge literally makes melee unplayable dude

[cyan bobcat]

smells like a skill issue

[fleet imp]

Wait thats true actually

[cyan bobcat]

i think we need more sci fi stuff like give medium a tesla gun or something

[icy sparrow]

We have ray gun for light already as a pistol skin

[icy sparrow]

#💣┇weapons-gadgets message

[cyan bobcat]

its a SKIN not a weapon and its a reference to the irl Czech Laugo Arms Alien

[cyan bobcat]

we are there

[icy sparrow]

Huh?

[icy sparrow]

No it’s a link to a specific comment

[cyan bobcat]

oh

[cyan bobcat]

good concept but we already have jump pad and ziplines...

[icy sparrow]

With cooldowns but not specific places plus it’s fire trap

More versatile

[cyan bobcat]

we could just give pyro mine to medium too

[vague monolith]

My friend averages like 20 sword kills a game, and that includes games with majority heavies

It would be hellish but if light has mines they would be my favorite class to play

[cyan bobcat]

i think we could get a gadget that does something similar to Overwatch D.va's matrix ability. for a few seconds it could consume bullets and projectiles from a direction. would be great against cl40

of course cooldown would be pretty long

also a sandwich for heavy would be awesome

[vague monolith]

I think it'd be cool if the aps had the properties it used to have, but instead it projected like your idea. Makes the aps useful again, but prevents it from being a completely mindless item where you just drop it on cash out

Maybe minus the bullets but idk lol

[cyan bobcat]

i was thinking of a portable, like as one of those special gadgets you have for classes

also a tf2 dispenser type dingaling would be great.

[loud merlin]

+1

[fleet brook]

Spam how?

[loud merlin]

the aps turret was totally fine imo
now its barely usable against the nade spam

[fleet brook]

It's a low CD because it isn't impactful unless for destruction unless someone is right in your face

You get 1 per confrontation pretty much you get 1 C and S every fight

[honest willow]

that’s not true lmao. you can open with it and if you somehow die, you get defibbed by medium. usually by then u have charge and slam again

the cooldown is much faster than “1 c and s every fight”

[fleet brook]

So you're telling me your big brain ultimate strat is to rush into the middle of the firing lines of 3-+ people and do what

Like unless you're rocking flamethrower/ melee or shotgun you've put yourself at a disadvantage

Also before the took meshs knees it was the superior spec forever

[honest willow]

what the fuck is your problem? I literally just said that it’s possible to open with charge and slam. I didn’t say shit about rushing into the middle of fire lines. Why are you so pressed?

The cooldown is short enough to have multiple charge and slams. Thats literally my statement.

[fleet brook]

If you open with C and S then you'll die so I just think it's kinda dumb to think anyone would do that

Also it's mostly a gap closer/ cut off tool

And unless you're playing melee you get the warning of the scream

Also the person's nerf suggestion of moving the damage to the slam is odd

People rarely get hit by the slam because being hit by the charge means you get jolted out the way of the slam

[bright current]

reminder to please keep it chill in here

[honest willow]

he just immediately insulted me lol

[orchid cave]

https://tenor.com/view/talking-to-a-wall-gif-9702424950693960694

NOO EMBED FAIL 😓

[viscid ridge]

We need a shark launcher for heavy

[vale linden]

did medium nade launcher get buffed?

[dire fossil]

yes it did, not sure how much but i think direct hits do more damage

[vale linden]

nerf that shit

[hallow leaf]

it went from 93 damage to 117, they buffed it by 24 damage

[spiral pilot]

and they buffed the max dmg radius its easier to hit max dmg

[deft ibex]

yea this is probrably the real problem with CL-40

the self-damage doesnt scale with the new radius, back in season 1 we had this same damage but it wasnt used nearly as much as anything else

[spiral pilot]

i feel like the self dmg is pretty much the old one and this never changed

[mellow gazelle]

The cooldown starts the second you press Q. Makes no sense for it to be cooling down while performing C&S
That’s the first nerf it needs tbh. It comes back way too fast

[honest willow]

The other guy is the one that thinks its slow and useless lol

[deft ibex]

yes, thats the problem though
they increased the max range damage for enemies, not for self damage

this allows me to shoot at the exact midpoint between me and an enemy, and have the enemy take damage, but i wont

[mellow gazelle]

I know I was meaning to agree with you when you said cooldown is faster than once per fight

[lofty sky]

The revolver needs more bullets or smt, It has so little dmg per mag it feels awful

[spiral pilot]

the revolver actually feels really good and balanced. its just not op as the pike thats the issue. but the red dot alone made this gun alot better

[lofty sky]

It needs better range, and its dmg per mag is awful. I love it but give it smt

[vale mulch]

6 shots just makes sense, I would love 4 extra hs damage tho 😈

[lofty sky]

I agree six shots make sense, I dont know what changes should be made but every other weapon feels like it does the job better

[timber idol]

I agree, it is a revolver so we would need to keep the six bullets but at least a damage buff would be nice

[lofty sky]

Like it does not have the bullets nor the range of the pike, close the model is better, god if you hit a headshot you still need to hit more shots. Famas is also burst but again, more range, dmg per mag. The cl-40 fucks up my sight so much rn. It blows up so much dust I cant see the enemy.

You should have to hit more shots after a headshot but sometimes I would like more dmg

[timber idol]

Revolver is 74 dmg rn but even if it is raised by one we can two short lights

[timber idol]

Shot*

[lofty sky]

That is true, but then might have to lover the rof

[timber idol]

Idk

[hallow leaf]

if its damage is raised to 75 it could one shot headshot lights

[craggy crystal]

the new skin for the vs95 is op

[timber idol]

Ah

[hallow leaf]

which im all for

[shut bane]

Let’s do it

[timber idol]

Maybe lower headshot dmg but raise body dmg

[timber idol]

Lets just nerf all lights

[shut bane]

Body shot damage is already pretty high tbh

I think it’s just the range which falls off pretty dramatically after a certain point but it does hit hard

[timber idol]

It takes 3 hits to kill light which i find is a little much due to its low accuracy but thats from personal experience

[hallow leaf]

tbh the revolver feels like a pea shooter after 20m

[sand monolith]

The revolver is almost completely inaccurate unless you’re standing still

[timber idol]

And the new sight for it feels weird

[hallow leaf]

they nerfed its range in s1 for no reason

[shut bane]

The sight for the revolver is nice, defo an improvement over the god forsaken irons

[timber idol]

The red dot sight feels weird for all the weapons imo

[timber idol]

I prefer iron icl

[shut bane]

Maybe you got used to it by now but the visibility of another player being cut by 90% if you want to go for headshots is a pain to me

[timber idol]

Yeah i see what you mean

I feel like actual red dot in the sight moves around way to much to be accurate

[silver delta]

they destroyed the game with it. i really consider skipping season 4 because of this

[honest willow]

it is likely going to get nerfed lmao. dramatic af

[restive plover]

they should nerf cl40's dmg to players but buff its dmg to environment like turrets and walls as well as make it launch players a bit further so it can be used as a movement tool

maybe when scoped grenades will stick to surfaces and detonate when you reload or after a set amount of time

just nerf its combat but give it utility in return so it can be used as a support weapon

[dim brook]

i mean for cl 40 there is counters if u play with duo mid , like 2x aps , or just spam jump pad , and when just charge the cl 40 player , if u tag him good enough he just kills himself , tho u need to be in kissing distance at that point

[soft dust]

I kinda wish you could improve on weapons/specials the more you used them, like reduce cool down time for cloak or turret, and give different sights and buffs to weapons

[restive plover]

I don't want to play MMH or MMM

I want meta diversity

[dim brook]

i asume u play light right ? 😄

[dim brook]

would be rly hard for new players if u mean like for the xp gained that u can cloak longer , but if only for the turnament time then it would be fair

[soft dust]

Well doesn't the finals already have skill based matchmaking?

[verbal apex]

I dunno, there's some pretty bad/difficult weapons in the game

[restive plover]

if the solution is "just play medium" then its not a solution at all

[dim brook]

😄 SBMM isnt per lvl tho , if u have shit kd and u lvl 65 u can still be in lobby with lvl 15 who just shoots good

[soft dust]

But that's gonna happen no matter what you can't really account for that unless you do a win/loss based matchmaking system, even then you're still gonna get someone who was carried through the games unfortunately

[fringe panther]

.

[wintry crane]

Damage is not it's issue lol.
It's has a x2 headshot multiplier iirc.
The problem is it's damage fallout and god awful recoil.
It's hit fire should also be better

Oh thought this was general for a second

[pallid moth]

Love this tbh

[restive plover]

Guys are there any way to get Nvidia Charm?

[dim brook]

didnt know that charm existed even 😄

[tropic palm]

APS my beloved

you can put a red dot sight on a revolver now

[trail horizon]

zip movement

[tropic palm]

dose anyone use the Lewis gun anymore?

or that one auto shotgun for heavy

[slate imp]

Drawing the BOW after while invis with VANISHING BOMB makes you come out of stealth

[hardy dust]

Its still very good and a valid alternative to m60.
Sa12 is less relevant with the huge mesh nerfs but still quite good.

[tropic palm]

cozy :3

[gentle blaze]

the stupidest change embark has made to this game is the grenade launcher buff. braindead weapon

[vague monolith]

It's not a good change, but season 3 definitely is and probably will be the lowest point of the finals as far as broken annoying shit goes

[tropic palm]

is it just me or dose it feel like the mediums stuff is getting nerfed while light and heavy are both broken

[chilly solstice]

You are not wrong

[tropic palm]

for example his main used gadgets are no longer that great or are very situational

[chilly solstice]

But the pike and cl are insane

[tropic palm]

true

[chilly solstice]

Honestly medium is probably my favourite class this season with the demat buffs

[tropic palm]

I like medium because he is the most balanced but is rolled over byheavy and light

medium vs medium is the most balenced fights I ever had

its like playing cod or something

[hallow leaf]

Performance of this game has gotten so much worse they try top fix it and some how make it worse

[azure glade]

if the rpg is meant to be a wet fart towards enemies, decrease the self damage and let heavies rocketjump!

[restive plover]

crazy

[azure glade]

maybe shorten the cooldown too, increase the destruction potential

[restive plover]

genuinely insane when medium has pike

[sinful dagger]

light is worst class. Heavy is alright. Medium is the best class by a long shot this season.

[warm gyro]

I wish light will get better, I’ve been a light since s1 and it has sucked since after s2

(S1 and s2 weren’t all that bad with light, still not great tho)

[charred wing]

i hate cl 40 pls embark remove this meta aint even a meta its a takeover

[vague monolith]

why does c4 still only get 1 charge if nukes don't exist anymore

[coarse sigil]

@pseudo swallow thanks for the suggestion with crosshairs

it works really well

[pseudo swallow]

I figured that was the issue, no problem! Im glad its working for you.

[pseudo swallow]

If u ever want my advice on anything else just dm me, ill send u a friend request

[coarse sigil]

im still bad at the game but now i can tell its me and not that i cant tell where the gun will shoot

[coarse sigil]

i am not using a crosshair anymore

embark i have realised the wrong of my ways and have now stopped

ok

[worldly wharf]

nerf pike and grenade launcher.

[restive plover]

^

[restive plover]

buff fcar so it can be balanced against pike n cl

[quartz juniper]

SEASON 5 WEAPON WISHES

Full auto Glock (MAYBE DUAL) for light or medium Lever action rifle (MAYBE WITH FIRE, explosive OR SHOCKER AMMO) for light or medium

PPSH ,Tommy gun, mp40, for medium

PPSH or Stoner 63 or BAR extended mag or Musket for heavy

MY TOP PICKS IF ONE FOR EACH WOULD BE

Winchester lever action with shocker that slows your movement a little for LIGHT

TOMMY GUN or PPSH FOR MEDIUM

EASY CHOICE FOR B.A.R extended mag HEAVY

Let's show EMBARK we want them yolks, share any of you agree 🤘🏻

We already got duel DEAGLES, and the DMR let's keep it up!🤘🏻

[late sequoia]

You forgot LH1, V9S, throwing knives, M11, M26, and Deagles on that list.

TBH, buff everything til it's on-par with them.
Underperformers like Riot, DB, revolver, FCAR, and now the flamethrower and AKM (I include AKM due to it's damage per mag dropping lower than the FAMAS) have no reason to be as bad as they are.

[sand monolith]

This is very class dependent. Medium weapons like pike and model need to be nerfed down to the power level of the famas/akm

Light weapons needs to be buffed to the power of the V9S/m11

and heavy weapons need to be buffed and nerfed to the power level of the m60

There are some exceptions cause balance isn’t 1 dimensional at all but ya

[amber cloak]

Also the 93r needs to be buffed

[sand monolith]

Nerf 93r

[vale obsidian]

Nerf 93r OP

xD

[sand monolith]

Tbh

Now that they’ve admitted they don’t know what to do with the 93r, I hope they just nerf it slightly every season and make a dev note about how it’s a buff

[late sequoia]

Wasn't it just buffed with the S4 update?
Better hip fire, better accuracy, better recoil, etc.

[sand monolith]

Eventually it would just be completely unusable

[vale obsidian]

would be hilarious lmao

[late sequoia]

I disagree.
FCAR feels like poop, AK's mag size nerf makes it's singular selling point entirely moot, FAMAS is the only one that even has a reason to exist anymore.

[sand monolith]

AKM could gets its mag back and the fcar should have 505 or 510 RPM with 25 damage

[vale obsidian]

"this gun got nerf so its useless now"

[sand monolith]

But the weapons like pike and model should be nerfed

[vale obsidian]

yeah i won't denail that lol

[late sequoia]

TBH, I want to see the FCAR get remade to be more of a high damage slow firing gun like the real-world SCAR/HCAR.

[sand monolith]

Ya that’s what those changes would do. That’s what they should have done instead of a damage nerf

[late sequoia]

37dmg 20rnd mag 340 RPM

We already know that damage model and mag size are fine (thank you, V9S), but this would be far slower firing (V9S fire rate is capped at 425 RPM), and I put no small amount of effort calculating the fire rate it'd have to be at to put the 37 damage model FCAR proposal at as close as possible to the same TTK/DPS stats as the current FCAR model.

And if they want to buff it (as tbh, it's TTKs are on the kinda trash end of the ARs), all they'd have to do is up the fire rate a bit like you'd suggested.
365 (7.4% increase) should put it closer to middle of the road between FAMAS and AK.

Either way (340 or 365RPM), with fire rates that low it'd be a lot easier to miss with hip fire in CQC situations, which would also put it as a nice middle ground on effective ranges for the ARs as well.

[late sequoia]

Please, let's fix the brokenly shit weapons (like the Riot shield and dual blades) before we go nerfing the class' scant few good options.

[sand monolith]

Or fix them at the same time

[late sequoia]

Ideally, we'd fix everything all at once, but balance changes are best made in small increments.

[sand monolith]

Medium has been overtuned for a year and a half since cb1

I think it’s fine if the class is made weak for a little bit

[late sequoia]

I'm an idealist.
I don't like the idea of any game feature being less than the best it can be.

I don't want to see any class nerfed just to show bias based on past balance issues.

[sand monolith]

When it comes to game balance, having something be weaker isn’t really an inherently bad thing

If medium was made weaker first, other things would be stronger. Light would finally see usage in higher elo and we would see team comps we have never seen before playing at high levels

Plenty of games intentionally make things weak because their goal with balance isn’t to make everything even, it’s to shift the meta periodically to keep the game interesting

Although I don’t think finals should do that long term. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to see for a month or so. Just because of how long meta medium has been ruining the game for

[amber cloak]

Yeah you have a point, if you have good movement ads is very situational

[late sequoia]

Mostly (at least in my personal experience) the enemy's movement skills are the biggest factor in whether or not ADS is viable at closer ranges.

The better they are (and the faster their movement abilities), the worse an idea it is to ADS at an enemy within 6-8m.

[vague monolith]

Keep the 93r kind of shit, but make it lose almost no accuracy when moving

[amber cloak]

At least so it's better than the fcar

Or the m11

Let's just make it broken while we are at it

[vale mulch]

what needs a nerf more pike or cl

[sand monolith]

Pike

[steep zenith]

The TK any good to use on light or is it in a bad spot rn?

I just started playing light and wondering what I should unlock

[vale mulch]

ehh, i think its best synergy with specs is dash and dash is rlly good until you encounter someone that can aim

[steep zenith]

so not really good in higher elo?

[crisp heart]

if you can make it work. it can be

that's light in a nutshell.

[steep zenith]

so worth learning another class other than light? I already have a good grip on med but mostly solo queue

[vale mulch]

learn all the classes

[crisp heart]

just do your thing.

[frank wren]

what are the exact zooms for all the sights

[spark igloo]

im going back to 505

[sand monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/do-i-waana-know-arctic-monkeys-gif-25523964

[spark igloo]

wrong album dumbass

AM nerf when? too op

[vale mulch]

am?

[spark igloo]

arctic monkeysd

[vale mulch]

oh

[rugged grove]

I am not sure if this is the place to type this out but i have a few fun idea for the game so starting off with the heavy I think a harpoon gun that does knock back and has the potential to pin enemies against walls depending on how close they are to the wall, a crossbow with a magazine for the medium that would be silent mid to close range projectile, and a slingshot that has a laser on it but when you get head shots with the sling shot it slightly concusses the enemy. Also a laser gun prolly for the medium that if you can catch players or items on fire depending on how long the beam is hitting the target and a Tesla gun for the heavy something similar to the flame thrower but it chains enemies the catch would be the damage falls off each time it chains

[obsidian spear]

Imma need either a nerf on the cl 40 or a buff on aps cause this shit s gone too far

[torn garden]

PETITION ON NERFING CL40

[reef sage]

I say buff APS and increase self damage of cl40, I'm tired of them jumping around shooting point blank and surviving while at the same time my boys heavies die to their RPGs

[restive plover]

6 games in a row I’ve been griefed by other teams just cuz I’m top 500

They go out of their way to double a 15k cash out just so we have to fight 4 teams at once to win

[analog wind]

Am I weird for using BOTH the static and dynamic cross hair at once? Like so I can gauge my spread for hipfire and ADS

[analog wind]

Buff APS to either four or six projectiles for one CL-40 mag or one MGL mag

[iron parrot]

Im struggling hard with the 50 headshots from 50+ m quest, what should i do!

[analog wind]

My only advice is just to try the Pike or the LH1 (with the new scope) if you're struggling with the sniper. They're still hitscan at least

[iron parrot]

oh ill try LH!

what mode do you rec?

thanks i only have 4 so far! its been 84 years! ... there are alot of kills i did get that i thought would count but did not T-T

[analog wind]

Well your teammates will probably get annoyed with you but power shift is your best bet. Five enemies to shoot and lots of verticality. All the maps have good vantage points tbh, just depends on where the platform is

[iron parrot]

someone already got mad at me, some are chill lol

[analog wind]

If you're going for the full long range I'd recommend bringing the dart gun and the thermal bore so you can track enemies (I'm actually not sure if you can can headshots with it so always worth a shot 🤷‍♂️) and the thermal bore can destroy barricades, damage shields, or even just get the enemies a little low for you

If you're struggling with visibility, perhaps thermal vision? It's down to user discretion really, there's not a perfect formula for this

[iron parrot]

thanks ill try that! this the only task i have left and its driving me crazy ahah

[analog wind]

Oh and I guess grappling hook for being able to get high quickly

[analog wind]

Relatable. My only challenge left from week one is literally just 30 wins and I'm on like 8 because my friends barely play

[iron parrot]

anymode?

[analog wind]

Yeah, any mode. To be fair I've primarily been playing power shift to do my other challenges so wins have mostly been secondary in my head. Going to grind quick cash

[iron parrot]

well if youre down i have time to play some now

just send me your friend thing

[analog wind]

A kind offer but I've got a lot of housework to get done today. That and - no offense to said kind offer - I'm on console and always nervous of doing PC cross play because more often than not I just can't compete

[iron parrot]

no worries just lmk

[analog wind]

Like just call me dough because I get rolled 💀

I will consider it though, thank you. Hope you get your headshot challenge done

[iron parrot]

i can carry

jk im just a asupport but i have good mates lol

[analog wind]

Lmaooooo

[fallow pecan]

please

[wraith peak]

Im still waiting for an oriental style firework launcher skin for the rpg.
Literally a launcher that shoots fireworkz, light the fuses.

[hallow leaf]

Finally the damn cl-no skill was nerfed

Now if only we could get a buff to dual blades

[copper sinew]

Damn 1.6 self-damage multiplayer is crazy high

[broken ether]

CL IS NERFED THANK GOD

[round steeple]

Used to pray for times like these

[broken ether]

THEY HAVE BEEN ANSWERED

[misty axle]

Why is the CL-40 damage dropoff worded the way it is?
They just removed the inner radius entirely since the gun just uniformly loses 10% damge per 0.3m?

[round steeple]

Noticed a nice little nerf to the silenced pistol as well

[misty axle]

Honestly, the splash damage when you're not directly next to the explosion isn't that bad, so I don't think it should matter that much besides the times you're reckless or some debris just falls in front of you the moment you fire.

[round steeple]

I’ve seen some of the pros use it and man that thing shreds at the higher ranks

[misty axle]

It lost about 10% of its max possible DPS, but also got 8% more damage per mag - not that the reload took so long anyhow.

[copper sinew]

I am not sure, it might seem unusable at close range, but maybe that will be a skill issue. I also remember it used to have 1.2 multiplier, but I think that was with the old damage calculation formula and it felt unusable back then.

[misty axle]

I want to say that a 1.2x multi never existed for the CL - I think it was a flat 1.0 until S2.0, where they dropped it to 75%, and now it's more than doubled to 1.6x in S4.2

I think CL-40 users will have to more or less revert to S1-2 mindsets when it comes to self-damage and do things like aiming past an enemy in point blank?

[dreamy sage]

Shame there's no nerf to the CL40's noise pollution :/

[copper sinew]

Didn't embark introduce a general self damage multiplier for all explosives at one point? (Excluding frags) I think even RPG had one for a very brief moment and I think CL had it longer than RPG

[strong prawn]

when is the model getting nerfed tho

and defibs

[misty axle]

Honestly, the moment anything starts to happen, footsteps disappear for me, no matter how many times they claimed to have made it better in S2-3.

[dreamy sage]

Same x.x But the sheer volume of 2 or more cl's is quite opressive volume wise

[round steeple]

For the pike nerf damage going from 59 to 52 all that really means is that it takes an extra shot to down a heavy right?

[strong prawn]

yes

[round steeple]

Not bad then I mainly use it to deal with annoying lights snipping from across the map

[misty axle]

Try jsut 1 MGL32 haha

[misty axle]

It should also affect the effective range, too.

[round steeple]

I don’t think so all the patch notes mention is a damage decrease nothing about range

[misty axle]

Hun, you understand the concept of damage dropoff, right?

[round steeple]

Oh yeah I misunderstood what you were saying my b

[round steeple]

Do you know how much damage drop off the pike has?

[misty axle]

Yeah, I'd say that the self damage is only really notable at point blank.

[worldly wharf]

finally all these fucking losers can stop spamming triple defib pike aids

[reef sage]

Not as big as heavies RPG. 100 to opponents, 252 to self...

[fallen sigil]

Should I use XP or M11 as a Light player?

[round steeple]

How goods your aim

[misty axle]

It is 180 self damage now - a 1.8x scalar.

[dreamy sage]

Depends on if you prefer close or medium range also

[fallen sigil]

Mid tier at best

[fallen sigil]

Mostly close but sometimes mid

[dreamy sage]

M11 is more forgiving and best hipfire imo

[round steeple]

I personally run m11 since I play closer range

[misty axle]

The XP plays more like a typical Assault Rifle with easier recoil and better damage at range, while the M11 has better hipfire and raw DPS up close.

[dreamy sage]

Plus m11 slaps harder now with the added benefit of sight option

[round steeple]

Frfr

[reef sage]

Serves them right, honestly. We heavies got used to ours being so high so you rarely see suicide bombers running around blasting their RPGs point blank

[nimble socket]

My last tournament of the night was against two MMM teams fully running CL40. I find this patch hilarious

[nimble socket]

I have seen probably 4 heavies over the last several months using the MGL32

[round steeple]

That’s so irritating fr

[misty axle]

I think the comparison is a little bit disingenuous since one is a gadget with a 45s cooldown + 2.15s reload, while the other is your primary weapon, but still good to discuss nontheless.
I think it's annoying how there's no good way ingame to view exact damage numbers / range / self damage scalars, etc.

[reef sage]

That's because cl40 was trash in season 3 so people opted to use this one instead. Hell, I was among them and I gotta say, mgl32 is highly underrated

[misty axle]

I've seen about 5, if I don't count my wacko friend that swears by it lol.

[dreamy sage]

TF2 Demoman gang rise up

[round steeple]

I’ve seen a couple too mainly playing with mediums with the cl40 so it was just a nade shitshow

[shadow ferry]

buff*

[nimble socket]

Always thought that thing fired too fast anyway

[reef sage]

Nothing like a good drink and highly explosive ordinance 😎

[nimble socket]

It seems like that weapon is in the game at this point purely to appeal to the tiny group of wackos who absolutely love it

[misty axle]

It loses ~10% max DPS for 8% more damage per mag.
It's only a buff if you can't hit 390+ clicks per minute.

[round steeple]

^

[copper sinew]

I have had a ton of fun with it, but it is just too much trouble when fighting people head on just to hit them, that all the other stuff you can do with it is just not worth it.

[shell sonnet]

Thats why you dont do that when running it

[copper sinew]

If it could land direct hits on enemies instead of the grenades bouncing off of them it would be good tho

[nimble socket]

I feel like MGL32 and dagger are both in their own class of "silly weapons a select few are extremely good with". Maybe count riot shield in there too

[shell sonnet]

I kinda find myself dropping nades from above to defend my cashout
Or just holding down chokes

[reef sage]

Mgl32 for life!

[misty axle]

To add onto my comment, You'd have to not be able to reach 390-430rpm, but still able to hit 360rpm for this to be a buff to the V9S.

[shell sonnet]

Id prefer that over a total rework

I guess i prefer the enjoyment of the majority over the enjoyment of the few, but it would be really sad if i couldnt enjoy its wierdness anymore

[modern citrus]

I feel like we're in this stupid meta loop where the devs won't buff the least played weapons "because nobody uses them" and nobody uses them because they never get balanced or fixed. Riot Shield and Dual Blades have been supremely neglected for the entire life cycle of the game and I can't imagine there's any analytics to support any reason other than the fact that they're both extremely broken.

[nimble socket]

I kind of agree, at least in that melee weapons generally seem to get the short end of the functionality stick. They feel kinda buggy most of the time and are honestly too easy to abuse, at least in casual matches

[shadow ferry]

power level isn't measured at the min-maxer stage, but rather the average user. increasing base damage while nerfing a well-above-typical-capacity semi-auto fire rate is simply a buff since most users are not firing near the max anyway

[shell sonnet]

I have a clip where i m2 attack with spear on a cashout to stop someone from stealing

Because spear only spins 90% of the way sometimes it didnt hit them on one rotation, which left them alive just long enough to steal

I feel like using it is a detriment most of the time

They shouldve made it a straight spin where you just hold it outward and keep spinning for as long as you hold it

Maybe speeding up over time so you can get it fast and then drop through a hole you made to suprise enemies

[copper sinew]

I feel like most melee weapons are in a good place tho.

I think everyone knows that Hammer is good if used right, it is just kinda niche.

Spear is great despite what everyone is saying about it, you just also need to know how to use it.

Dagger has its own following and people who know how to use it make it looks scary, it is just not the kind of weapon that will draw typical shooter players in.

Sword is just insane and you can 1v3 entire teams if you know what you are doing.

Really the only two bad melee weapons are riot shield and dual blades, dual blades just have bad damage cycles on their hits, you need both parts of the combo to hit lights and medium, which also require a quick melee, to kill them and you can't even kill heavies with a full cycle and a quick melee.

Medium also has no great way to close the distance.

Lights have dashes and invis/vanish bomb to a lesser extent.

Heavies have the winch and charge'n'slam to get near enemies.

Mediums have to either use the jump pad, which needs some slopes to even go forward or a zipline which draws too much attention to them.

[shadow ferry]

To add onto my comment, this base damage increase brings damage thresholds to chip damage kill range -- namely, 4 headshots on M is now only 10 damage off kill, whereas before it was 28

[misty axle]

I mean, I don't know how fast people are able to click on Controller, but in my experience, PC players can typically hit 350-425cps fairly easily with the top players going at about 550-650cps

Maybe I'm biased because most of my time behind FPS triggers is Rainbow 6 Siege, where pistols have a 600rpm firerate cap.

[copper sinew]

That would be great. Turning into a beyblade with right click, picking up speed running out of time and all that jazz.

Would also help with the fact that right click doesn't even deal enough damage to kill a heavy on full health, which is just terrible considering how hard it is to even execute all 3 hits on them before you die.

[shell sonnet]

Mediums weapons are defensive
So it think their combat being bad is ok

Only think i might change is the dual baldes final combo attack damage
And making m2 more consistent to hit people with (perhaps at the cost of taking more damage)

And riot could maybe be made slightly bigger and pulled a little closer to the player so they are slightly better protected from the front

But otherwise i wouldnt change them

[misty axle]

I don't know how you classify Medium's weapons to be "defensive"

[shell sonnet]

Literally blocks damage?

[misty axle]

I might be speaking too far out of my experience, but you could M1 once, then start the M2

[misty axle]

Oh, you're talking about the Melees specifically, my bad!

[shell sonnet]

Np

[cunning kettle]

lowkey db full combo not killing a heavy fucks with me so much

[copper sinew]

In that case a heavy already knows you are there and will start attacking you, most likely killing you before the second hit comes out.

The best way to use the m2 is to start it up before you get into the range of being seen or players like that, or attacking grouped up enemies.

Basically you should already be in the animation before you get close enough to hit and at the same time you don't have enough time to do it afterwards

[shell sonnet]

But it does?

[cunning kettle]

wait it does!?!?!?!

[shell sonnet]

If you dont play mid range, yes

[copper sinew]

What could help a lot is adding a small damage reduction to bullets while spinning

[copper sinew]

dual blades not double barrel

[cunning kettle]

you cant even hit people at mid range with db

[shell sonnet]

Oh

[cunning kettle]

😭

[shell sonnet]

Mb then
Kinda more used to people say db to sh1900
Was kind of confused why they were talking about light out of the blue

[cunning kettle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1236829338767331440/1275192234173792511/smileybeef_-_1824476702992376093.gif

[copper sinew]

Honestly I don't think it is the weapons that need changing.

If medium could get a specialization or a gadget that gives them a personal movement option that would be enough.

Obviously nothing like dashes or the grapple, but a move speed buff or a teleport with a wind up/wind down or something. Things that aren't as instant but still give you a good distance

[shell sonnet]

In my defence, i just woke up

[cunning kettle]

but yea i just dont see a reason to use db

i can 4 tap a heavy with rs and block gunshots while attacking

[shell sonnet]

I wish the reflecs were better
Actually make its main difference stronger

[cunning kettle]

with db you cant hit while having defense up and the full combo doesnt kill a heavy

[copper sinew]

It is like a riot shield that can have some fighting power at range, but blocks less and kills heavies slower.

Honestly the reflecting is probably the main reason and it is just not good enough.

[cunning kettle]

so called "fighting power at range" after it doesnt reflect 90% of the bullets fired into it

and even then people are smart enough to just not shoot at you when you block

[copper sinew]

The problem is you gotta be looking at the person shooting at you.

[shell sonnet]

Im very much against a movement speed buff

If you cant kill them, at least you can run
Now imagine you couldnt do that either

Its bad enough the few times sledge does that

[copper sinew]

Nah, not a buff.

I am talking more like steroids that give you more ms for like 8 to 12 seconds

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, im against that
If its baked into the weapon, or if the buff comes from another source, it would lead to the same issue

[cunning kettle]

imo dual blades need a damage buff tho

[shell sonnet]

^

[cunning kettle]

like lowkey riot shield is just better because you can damage while defending

[shell sonnet]

More accurate m2, thats all i need

[cunning kettle]

and riot shield you can close the gap while having your defense up

db requires you to hold m2 and walk if you dont want to filled with lead

[shell sonnet]

Where, unless you can hit the feet, running away is your only option

Now imagine that wouldnt work either

[copper sinew]

I know how impactful that is, that's why I would only slap that as a specialization.

And I mean it is a medium, you still can't outrun them unless you are a light.

I have had so much situations where I am just running after someone and they just keep running because they are to afraid to fight and we do that for far too long

[misty axle]

I wonder how strong Dual Blades would be if the deflect had aimbot - as long as you were facing them, all deflects would go back to the attacker.

[cunning kettle]

with riot shield you can turn your camera 45 degrees to the right and the shield will still cover a good chunk of you while you have full movement

the shield being always active make it so much better than db

[copper sinew]

Allowing sprinting with M2, a lunge attack if you click M1 while holding M2, better deflection angle on M2, better damage on the last attack of M1.

Those are all thing dual blades could use honestly and implementing just one or two wouldn't make them too powerful imo

[cunning kettle]

lowkey that lunge thing would be fire

[shell sonnet]

As specialization its still a problem

You have more of a cost because heal beam, turret or demat are gone
So its "balanced" but still un-fun to face

Currently, even if you cant escape, the enemy at least cant catch up if youre a medium

Getting into those cat and mouse chases is annoying, dont get me wrong
But it would be way worse to just die by default to it

Enjoyment of the many > fun of the few
Rather a few people that like tu use db have a hard time every now and again, than everyone else getting into cat and mouse chases they cant win

[cunning kettle]

honestly something as mundane as just a movement speed boost shouldnt be a spec imo

[copper sinew]

It would be be just dying by default, it would be forcing an engagement, the enemy can still try to win it. And it is forcing an engagement with your own resources so enemies still have more of them, so they have an advantage in the fight.

What specialization you pick is your choice and nobody is forcing you to pick that with dual blades, you can still get turret or heal beam if you want and people could still pick that specialization with other weapons.

Overall in a game as focused on movement as the Finals I think a specialization like that would be a good fit and would overall increase the fun from the game.

[cunning kettle]

community is gonna riot if a new M spec is a fucking temporary movement speed buff lmao

and it also only fills a niche that melee needs

[copper sinew]

1. Apex legends begs to differ
2. It all depends on how strong it would be, but specializations are something that defines the identity of how you play or are and iconic thing. I think "going very fast" is that, especially since light has one specialization that does that

[cunning kettle]

1. fuck apex
2. the light class is supposed to be fast so ofc they gonna get a spec about going fast in short bursts

[copper sinew]

Yet you say that isn't enough for a specialization by itself.

And it doesn't even need to be just movement. You could make it so climbing animations are faster, give a little boost to the jump, increase weapon swap speed, maybe even reload speed (that one would probably be a bad idea). Give it two charges, give it a short cooldown, allow using it on allies so you can get the heavy to the frontlines faster.

[cunning kettle]

glorified sprint button should not be a spec

and that second paragraph is basically completely changing the spec. if it provided buffs in multiple areas and allowed you to buff teammates then yea ofc it should be a spec

[marsh tendon]

With the addition of the emp barrel to data reshaper, which enlarged the barrel cycle list. Wouldn't it be nice to use the second mouse click to reverse the cycle?

[shell sonnet]

i dont play dual blades too much, so take this with a grain of salt
but in my experience, if melee gets into close range, they have pretty much won

you force an engagement, and then reach a range where you can loose

at long range the enemy blocks and you only hit yourself, running away is not an option because youre slower, and once the db medium reaches you, they just kill you
it would suck

just look at heavy and what happens if you give a melee class that is balanced around being able to get away gets an ""engagement"" tool

What specialization you pick is your choice and nobody is forcing you to pick that with dual blades, you can still get turret or heal beam if you want and people could still pick that specialization with other weapons.
that seems unrelated to my point?

overall increase the fun from the game.
for melee mediums, everyone else now cant fight them at range, gets outrun by them, and when they catch them, they just die
everyone else suffers

especially since light has one specialization that does that
light is already the fastest class, they catch up by default
it doesn't matter to the other classes if they go even faster, as they couldve caught them by default
thats why they fall over if you breathe on them too hard

[cunning kettle]

send this to #👂┇game-feedback now. you are cooking 🔥

[shell sonnet]

kinda just feels like if were doing this, we may as well just let them choose the barrel

or is it perhaps a bigger part of balance than i imagine?
it is fun to spam click though and get used to the order

[marsh tendon]

Aye captain

[marsh tendon]

I kinda love the skill ceiling it potentially has. Having to memorise the order

[shell sonnet]

yeah, its nice

[cunning kettle]

you can turn random prop objects into barrels and its aoe so being able to change the barrel is probably not gonna be good

imagine someone gets like 4 flowerpots together and with 1 data reshaper change they make a goo fort 😭

[copper sinew]

I mean choosing the barrel would likely require a different menu or more keybinds for a single gadget and both of those don't seem reasonable, coz they would both body the ease of use of the gadget.

Just going in reverse order just gives you more options, but you still gotta rely on your skill to get what you want, you just don't need 5 charges to do so

[icy sparrow]

@open mirage How can a heavy class with high health and damage weapons like hammer,Lewis,shotgun etc doing with this high damage charge like high damage and health is being compensated with a high damage charge and slam attack?

The heavy charge m slam immediately does maximum damage even if heavy start right in front of and almost no visual warning out of nowhere,it’s completely unbalanced,add the grunt audio right before it activates not in the middle of charge n slam,it should half damage for charge and more knock back when it start and maximum damage at the SLAM so people r actually mindful to use it

[shell sonnet]

fair enough

[icy sparrow]

With like 3 of the same barrel u should get a grenade depending on the barrel one time use

[cunning kettle]

on the topic of barrels and canisters when will gas barrel stop making a tiny puff of gas

[shell sonnet]

that would be too strong

it allows you to practically replace all grenades in return for less throw range and smaller aoe

if you could summon grenades it would be an actual straigt upgrade

[shell sonnet]

you mean on full detonation?

[cunning kettle]

yea i havent tested it much so idk the exact conditions but sometimes it makes a tiny puff of gas and sometimes it makes the full cloud

[shell sonnet]

its size has been nerfed to make the nades stronger by comparison
if they seem like they have different sizes, then its probably something else (like blowing up in the air vs on the ground)

i have no idea why they should ever be randomly smaller

[cunning kettle]

idk gas barrels just arent it for me anymore

[spiral pilot]

we got the cl40 nerf we all wanted

[copper sinew]

I am only afraid it might have been too much

[shell sonnet]

i prefer pyro myself
gas also needs to stop exploding randomly because they took 2 damage from a random explosive 3 minutes ago

[marsh tendon]

I have returned #👂┇game-feedback is a scary place

[cunning kettle]

yea sorry for sending you to hell

[shell sonnet]

it is

[cunning kettle]

yea orange barrels are the goat.

[shell sonnet]

has anyone used current cl-40 yet?

[spiral pilot]

there is an indirect shadow buff when reloading. the reload speed is the same but it has 5 bullets, you reload like 1-1.5 second and you have 3 bullets back

[marsh tendon]

I have my doubts on my ability to reaching the devs in that channel :c

[unique swallow]

Nerf CL this shit doesn't fix anything rather than buffed it

[cunning kettle]

doorway? stick an orange barrel in there and the floor is gone and theres fire
need to open up a roof? orange barrel that shit

[spiral pilot]

the self dmg alone is crazy

[copper sinew]

I mean it is overall a buff, sure you need one more hit to kill heavies again, but you have 1 more bullets against other classes and you still kill them with the same amount of shots.

it is just 1.6 self damage multiplier seems really high

[cunning kettle]

i can now kill c;-40 mediums by running into their face and doing nothing 🔥

[copper sinew]

But if you don't hit yourself it is just a plain buff in my eyes

[weak kernel]

I tried it out in a few quick cash games, certainly feels worse but lights still love to blindly chase you down from predictable angles so I've been doing fine so far. fighting heavies feels significantly worse and the self damage thing is huge, if teams jump into your face you're fucked and if a heavy drops a dome shield on site you can't really do anything about it

[spiral pilot]

i tested it in the shooting range i can tell its much harder to two shot a light now it feels

[marsh tendon]

I feel like it this self dmg multiplier is exactly the nerf it needed. It creates a weakness to exploit. Just stand close to em

[spiral pilot]

see where i aimed? pre nerf it killed both light dummys here

[copper sinew]

Yes it is, but I would go for 0.75 into 1.0 or 1.2 at most, not 1.6

[shell sonnet]

if it does feel way worse against heavy, then it should have been either that with .75 self damage

or old cl-40 with 1.6 self damage

ill need to test that a bit

[spiral pilot]

or just dont use it against many heavys, thats what loadouts is for

[weak kernel]

I think they overnerfed it but I also think it's hard to put it at a decent spot for higher levels without making it the bane of lower level players, plus a lot of people find splash damage inherently tilting

[shell sonnet]

i dont think anyone is complaining about soldiers splash in tf2
i wonder what makes the difference

[spiral pilot]

i think they actually did a very good job, there is now a counter to it by staying close and it does not kill lights in 2 shots anymore unless its well aimed. also the 5 bullets with the same reload speed is a good buff

[marsh tendon]

Yeah I understand. I feel like hitting yourself should remain consistent with the rest of the explosive weapons though. It was weird it had such a low scaling compared to the heavy nader or the rpg7.

The weapon doesn't have a fall off. Thus is good at every range (besides travel time). Increasing the self damage multiplier above the 1x feels like the perfect way to create a counter strategy. Get close and personal

[copper sinew]

cause there are more players in the game.

If a soldier bombs you in tf2 while taking damage themselves, they will be left at like 20% of their health more or less in the middle of 11 other players. Here if that happens you only have 2 other players that have to clean up

[weak kernel]

probably because close range splash weapons are the default in TF2. People still do complain about soldier and demo sticky spam- I think a better analogue might be pyro, tilting people like mad because "no aim required" and getting beaten down for it

[weak kernel]

Yeah I'm definitely not like "this gun is unusuable" but even at its peak I thought people overrated it compared to medium's other guns and this is a step back for it, that's all.

[spiral pilot]

cl40 is still good and has its uses above other guns, usualy its its a bad idea to run one cl40 ina team of like 3 mediums. cl40 cleans rooms from mines and destroys stuff like barricades etc.

i think overall winner this patch is heavy, taking one more shot from pike, making it much easier to trade with deagles. and the mesh shield, will try mesh shield today but i think its not good enough compared to charge and slam

[faint meteor]

Any time a class gets a light be gone weapon that weapon becomes a worse version of c4

[spiral pilot]

one buff that i personally like is the smoke grenade buff

[fading grotto]

https://discord.com/channels/1008696016318513243/1293878633093664799

[crude leaf]

FINALLY 🙌

[spiral pilot]

you make green barrels into glitch which i think is perfect. i think this makes data reshaper so much more fun to use when you basically almost always have a glitch barrel with you if you want

[vale obsidian]

it having 3 ammo is also goated
any APS is just one swap and a click away form being deleted
||feel the wreath of my cl40||

[spiral pilot]

smoke got buffed in patch 4.20

[misty axle]

You can 2-tap APSs by aiming for the edge of the range - unless the new nerf to damage changed that.

[deft ibex]

Buff data reshaper xp

Por favor

[shell sonnet]

does reshaping multiple items give multiple instances of xp?

[fickle radish]

should be

[deft ibex]

I hope :(

[fickle radish]

getting xp with that thing is pain

[fleet brook]

Community the splash damage on the cl 40 is the issue

Embark cool so you want us to nerf the direct damage as well.

Everyone?????

They also made it more spammable but now it trades very poorly

[sand monolith]

The splash damage was not the issue

[fleet brook]

That's what I saw the most people complaining about honestly

[sand monolith]

It’s a grenade launcher I don’t know why people wanted it to just become a worse model

[fleet brook]

"it's no skill just spam splash damage" true I just think embark was catering to the community

If you just want the direct hit go play TF2 idk

[ocean sparrow]

dude i love play with the Light, but its unplayable with one team full with the cl40

[fleet brook]

Tbf it'd be more like the KS 23 of it had weak splash

[sand monolith]

True

[sand monolith]

Play highground and they won’t hit you

[ocean sparrow]

nop they do