💣┇weapons-gadgets

[north flint]

What you think about these bots

[north flint]

The way he was just there and then not the next second🤣

[vale obsidian]

he body block me so i was hella confuse on why i can't jump out the window

[north flint]

But what in the lag was that

[plucky spade]

That was cool af wtf

[vale obsidian]

uh yes

[plucky spade]

Wtf is pink doing cuh

Nice aim doe

[north flint]

That also happened to me once and i was too busy thinking of wtf is this just to get beamed 2 seconds after

[north flint]

Do you play in kfc wifi coz wtf😂

[vale obsidian]

mayhaps

my record was five but i was too slow to screen shot

[north flint]

What you think about this aim

Imagine if snipers one headshotted mediums also

[north flint]

Damn😂

I only have one of those the red one with a triangle

[vale obsidian]

nah you the one that play with kfc wifi lmao
thats a hitscan and it still have a delay like a damn projectile

[vale obsidian]

which

[north flint]

My game is not the one taking ad breaks🤣🤣

[plucky spade]

Fuck you i hope you get winched behind walls every time you play light sniper

[north flint]

But fr though sniper needs a buff that would've been an insane kill

[vale obsidian]

uh fuck that
sniper don't need a buff

[north flint]

The warning😂

See it's not kfc wifi 😂

[north flint]

🤣🤣🤣

[plucky spade]

Idc you got a game about movement and you decide to play the point and click adventure class

[north flint]

This one is pretty basic tbh

But what you think about this one

[north flint]

Yea its fun sometimes when you know how to move and point and click🤣

[vale obsidian]

you crossplay off?

[plucky spade]

I had hit a clip where i hs'd a poor fella while sliplining through a window and the fella was on top of a crumbling building

[plucky spade]

Too bad I dont record anything

[plucky spade]

Based

[north flint]

Yes pc players are overpowered

[vale obsidian]

you need to man lmao (suppose to reply to the msg above it)

[north flint]

😂😂

[north flint]

Damn you got gang banged hard😂

Look at what heavies do🤦‍♂️

[vale obsidian]

cheated the engagement and got punish
(talking about fight and not wedding btw)

[vale obsidian]

burh that guy is unhinge

anotha clip

[north flint]

Made the heavy suicidal

What you guys think about this sniper clip I missed a few shots but also hit a few good ones

[north flint]

You shouldve just waited abit😂😂

[vale obsidian]

saw the alone med so i go for it

[north flint]

Fuck those were amazing kills

[vale obsidian]

that just standerd hits to me tbh

[north flint]

I hit 2 headshots one with a qs and no scope

[north flint]

Let's see your sniping clips

[vale obsidian]

i hit a 360 headdy before but my memory was full so my thing didn't capture what happen

tragic

[north flint]

My sensitivity isn't high enough for that

Ez teamwipe

[north flint]

What you think about the quick scope

[vale obsidian]

standard stuff

let me see if i have any sniper clips

burh nothing

[shell sonnet]

Speaking of that, i may have a funny clip somewhere, hold on

[vale obsidian]

bow will have to do

i also really like this clip
i lose but god did i make it expensive for the light team

[shell sonnet]

behold, the mental toll of fighting an rpg winch heavy

[vale obsidian]

*slip
welp, thats one less lose end

[north flint]

🤣🤣

[north flint]

Nice

But lights are easy to kill

[vale obsidian]

for the most part if the light play like an idiot

[dull delta]

I say they overreacted... but I get it xD

[north flint]

Exactly

But even good lights are easy to kill unless it's a sniper from 20 miles away

[shell sonnet]

i kind of want to try to recreate playstyles from other games by mashing together different gadgets that are similar in this game
too bad we only have 6 slots and i have to remove my main play contestants to actually do that

it really dampens the fun factor and experimentation imo

[vale obsidian]

mesh, hammer, fire nade

I am your shield

[shell sonnet]

hold on, i just had a stupid idea

need to test something

so, an idea
stun someone and drop a frag at their feet

probably worse than just shooting, imma give it a shot anyways

[vale obsidian]

im going to fram clip with this lmao

first thing first i need a horrible gun so i actually feel like doing it

[shell sonnet]

close range but not too close, dont wanna blow yourself up

93r?

[vale obsidian]

quick scope sniper

[fleet brook]

Good lights are annoying to kill

Only good lights have made me consider uninstalling mid match

[vale obsidian]

i have quite the hall

[shell sonnet]

@sand monolith i would like to talk to you about this

you should be able to triple stack medium and win yes. but you should be winning by playing to the strengths of your team. triple medium should not have good damage but should still be able to win due to the sustain and utility. the issue is that triple medium has all of that sustain and utility while ALSO having good damage. there is no trade off like the other classes

personally i kind of agree with the general idea
however, i do think that head on fights are an important part of the game and its fun
making mediums damage worse because they have support would make certain strategies like ice fishing unviable, due to dealing little damage
it would also discourage people from playing what they like because they wont be allowed to adequately defend themselves
you would also need to be basically glued to your teammates, which is not great for casual play

perhaps an OW vs TF2 comparison would be fitting here

im of the opinion that all classes should have about equal chances to win in a fight against all other classes, but have small differences in things such as how they achieve to gain equal footing or what else they're capable of

[sand monolith]

triple stacking any class should show off the weaknesses of said class to the extreme

and you should be encouraged to play to the strengths of the class you are triple stacking

[shell sonnet]

but thats exactly the issue
in mediums case that would mean you cant hold your own in 1v1's, so you're either basically glued to your teammates or just die over and over

i think there should not be a straight up "weakness" for any given class
they should all capable of everything to some extend (but slightly better or worse than the others)

everyone should be allowed to play their preferred class regardless of play-style preference

[sand monolith]

thats not possible to balance

[north flint]

Just played Wt and got another death you wouldn't be able to top

[shell sonnet]

Why not?
Heck, id argue were pretty close already

[sand monolith]

we are arguably further than s1 from being balanced

also, light and heavy both have weaknesses inherent to their classes

heavy is slow, large hitbox and has bad verticality and movement, also range.

light has super low HP and has to rely on teammates to survive playing defensively

taking away these weaknesses would be hell for casual players and competitive players

[shell sonnet]

what im talking about isn't tied to balance
im talking about playstyle options

give me a minute, i need to think of a way to explain this correctly

[sand monolith]

playstyle options should be tied to class

if you want to play a defense focusd playstyle youre not going to play light

[torn mantle]

Which is better, CS with the SA or WC with the SA?

[shell sonnet]

best way i can think of is just giving an example
actually, lets use defending as an example

heavy is the main defender with plenty of tools for it
barricades, dome, goo gun etc.

but that doesn't mean hes the only one that can defend
medium has turrets and shares mines, they also have aps

light isnt that well equipped for defending but its still possible if you do it right
you can get in quickly and stun someone, goo can still block entrances, and smoke+gas can make a really good temporary defence

heavy has the easiest time defending, but the others arent locked out of it
(as well as doing so with their own unique twist fitting to their usual playstyle)
exactly how its (in my opinion) supposed to be

from my perspective it sounds like you want only heavy to defend
medium to only support
and only light to be dps

is that correct?

[sand monolith]

no i agree with you

weaknesses shouldnt be things you are completely unable to do, they should just be things you are noticeably worse at. light is noticeably worse at playing defensively

medium shouldnt be completely incapable of getting kills, just noticeably worse at it

[shell sonnet]

then im not quit sure what you intended for with the original thing to be honest

[sand monolith]

which it was for a little bit until people started using the model

[shell sonnet]

let me gather my thoughs for a minute

[shell sonnet]

do you count akm as noticibly worse at getting kills?

[unborn stirrup]

it really is possible tbh

[sand monolith]

yes

[shell sonnet]

huh

[unborn stirrup]

i liked RS's point with TF2, every class is capable of holding their own in one way or another, it just works

[sand monolith]

it will lose 1v1s to both other classes

[shell sonnet]

i always thought it was pretty good

that might explain the whole situation lol

[sand monolith]

its good for a medium weapon

[unborn stirrup]

that entirely delegates medium to an exclusively support class though, which just doesnt make sense gameplay wise in a three class system

[shell sonnet]

i think this may have been a miscommunication and we want the same thing

@sand monolith say, whats your opinion on rpg/winch?

[sand monolith]

insanely stupid but not for the reasons people think

[shell sonnet]

because id like to see them nerfed
which would turn heavy into the high defence/low offence vision i think you have for them

[sand monolith]

rpg and winch are stupid because theyre both instant, if winch had to be spun up and rpg couldnt be reloaded until the player had committed to firing it, they would be perfect

[torn mantle]

which is better for SA, winch or C&S?

[shell sonnet]

id rather see rpg as a destructive tool
but thats justan opinion

what matters is we agree on them being in need of a change

[shell sonnet]

winch imo
c&s is good for destruction but thats about it

with c&s you risk yourself getting shot while the enemy sidesteps
winch doesnt have that issue while being just as lethal, without the need to get close and has massive potential for moving the cashout

[unborn stirrup]

RPG imo really doesn't have an issue, it has a long cooldown + just enough damage to nearly one shot a light or finish off fleeing mediums/heavies; and lights shouldn't ideally be in a position to be hit with an RPG in the first place.

• its AOE is greatly exaggerated, i've never gotten a multikill with RPG and I've had powershift rounds full of first day bots.

[torn mantle]

saying rpg doesn't have an issue is funny

Idk about you all but whenever I played with heavy it often happened to me that I'd just shoot a light once and then rpg them, and as light the opposite, and for mediums I'd just gun them and then rpg to finish off

[unborn stirrup]

It really doesn't, I main medium and have played a few good rounds as light and haven't encountered any unbalanced moments. I've taken clips of funny times heavies were just done with my shit flanking them and simply blew me up, but I knew that was the one time they could do it so I just came back in after respawn and killed them.
It's not that complicated.

[torn mantle]

Well I'm just saying from my experience (I play mostly heavy, second light) that RPG has created many guarantee wins for the H using it

[unborn stirrup]

Each class has their "guarantee win" moments to me, which is ideally how it should work (not objective fact). Light has ridiculous dps and just enough health to survive 1v1s, heavy is heavy weapons guy, and medium can put out the most sustained damage combined with maneuverability.

[shell sonnet]

long cooldowns generally dont do a big part in balancing imo, they just dictate how often something (in this case something annoying) can happen, and may make it feel bad to use since being on a long cooldown with limited options is boring
a cooldown doesnt matter if it takes longer to respawn

nearly 1-shotting a light is exactly the issue, theyre a hit and run class that doesnt get to do its job a lot of the time because they just die instantly or dont get to run away
which also happens to be quit frustrating to be on the receiving end

the only way to decently avoid rpg is to above the enemy, which is not always an option inside of a building
even if it is, there might still be something next to you that can easily be shot

[unborn stirrup]

Again, I'm far from a first day player and if I need 300+ hours just to have a qualifying opinion on balance then there's no point, but there is genuinely not a single time (even as light) that I've sat back and thought the RPG needed a nerf.

[shell sonnet]

and for example powershift is another can of worms

teams of 5 are harder to wipe, a single kill is not the end of the world

but in a 3v3 final round of world tour that can easily lead to a wipe, making it virtually impossible to get a chance at winning at times

[shell sonnet]

had a situation just now

i go to open the vault, as i turn around i spot a heavy that instantly slams me with 140 damage, i now cannot win the 1v1 because of the massive hp disadvantage

did something like that ever happen to you?

[sand monolith]

rpg absolutely needs a nerf its not even a question

the only reason it doesnt stand out as an issue rn is because they gutted other parts of heavy

[icy sparrow]

Based off tf2 shovel
Add a tactical axe where u do a downward thrust and do more damage the higher u fall (good with grapple hook)

[icy sparrow]

Needs a laser beam that’s shows that it’s being used so u can prepare

[unborn stirrup]

I was trying to "loop the killer" with a heavy and he just sat at a corner and popped me when I tried to run off.

I thought it was funny as shit.

[icy sparrow]

What about my shovel comment here?

[unborn stirrup]

Honestly goated, people actually suggesting new things to add to the game instead of calling for "nerf this" and "buff that" is refreshing. Plus more three dimensional gadget mechanics would really add to the level of play.

[icy sparrow]

More ideas #👂┇game-feedback message

Let’s improve the game by adding fun

[shell sonnet]

wouldn't help as much

you can just look at a doorway and quickly swing past it when someone walks in
also doesnt stop someone from whipping it out to finish you off

the rocket could be slowed so you can dodge (and maybe reshape it more easily)
though that wouldnt help at all in close range

[icy sparrow]

Have it aim down sight to add delay

Only fire after aiming

[shell sonnet]

that might work, gives a little time to prepare
but the time would have to the incredibly long to have any meaningful impact

that would also just make it feel worse to use imo

i think it would bet better off with more reserve ammo and less damage
make it heavies thermal bore so to say

breach and thermal are pretty well balanced compared to each other imo

heavy would be the same, just that rpg doesn't have the fire of thermal
instead being instant destruction with a little chip damage

[icy sparrow]

Too much destruction if there is more

125 damage
Aim to fire plus laser beam for visibility

[shell sonnet]

how so?

charge already does way more destruction and its doing fine on thermal

i think it would be ok

[icy sparrow]

We don’t want holes everywhere it’s annoying to deal with broken terrain

[shell sonnet]

i mean, i dont mind
thats what the game is about, lots of destruction

its not like other things already do that

[restive plover]

Who's we?

[shell sonnet]

even then, i think some holes and destruction is much more preferable to being 1-shot and brute forcing a win in 1v1 through sheer hp advantage

[icy sparrow]

125 damage is too much for u?

[shell sonnet]

instead of 1 bullet to kill a light its 3
doesnt matter as much in straight ttk battles against the other classes

not impactful enough

[unborn stirrup]

Ngl the only RPG "nerf" I agree with is maybe making it have 3 shots that total to 180 damage with a reload for each one, combined with more environmental damage or AOE.

[stoic garden]

you dont mean when defending cashouts right, cuz light has a lot of tools for defending those

[sand monolith]

Light is noticeably worse than the other 2 classes at defending cashouts yes

Doesn’t mean they don’t have tools for it

[unborn stirrup]

"Noticeably worse" doesn't mean "Absolutely fucking useless"

[sand monolith]

Yeah

[stoic garden]

what... it has gateway, stun gun, high dps weapons and a few destruction tools tho

[sand monolith]

Stun is great and gateway going to be trapped by any competent team. Breach is good for dropping it. That’s really all

Again it’s not incapable of defending. But medium and especially heavy are just better at it

[north flint]

Went from playing like this

To dying like this

[shell sonnet]

nah hold up

dropping it with breach/thermal bore
gas+smoke nade
goo+pyro
stun gun
dagger/sh1900 for quickly killing a thief

light has options

not all perfect, they come with downsides
but light has options

[unborn stirrup]

Yeah exactly

[shell sonnet]

the only reason light is underused in the cashout style modes is rpg and defib just ruining it for them
imo

[raven hollow]

Is cloaking device better then dash?

[unborn stirrup]

See in the second clip you get RPGed and then fall into a room full of enemies with zero team support, whereas the first clip you had ample backup behind you and a good position + cover to shoot from. It also didn't help the other team from the first clip just being cornered like they were.

You also killed yourself with your own grenade after walking off the ledge.

[raven hollow]

I agree

[north flint]

I died to my own grenade💀

[north flint]

I didn't walk off the ledge I fell off of it

[unborn stirrup]

The RPG you got hit by didn't actually destroy the floor you were on, it destroyed the wall under it. Where you were standing remained unchanged, you literally just walked forward into the hole.

I'm not meaning to be an asshat and just say "it was all your fault". But the second clip is genuinely a perfect example of a heavy just catching you off guard. It would have been the same result had any other class come up behind you.

[north flint]

I was gonna jump into own grenade if any class was behind me because not just any class can make the ground collapse

[hardy dust]

And because heavy and medium just... do stuff better most of the time

[hardy dust]

Yes, but dash is pretty good against decent players

Against better ones they'll track you so it's not as good

[shell sonnet]

Imo that is because of defib and rpg

If those werent an issue i wouldnt be suprised if light would become a viable pick

[hardy dust]

Light just dies really fast in general

They still lose almost every ttk duel

[shell sonnet]

It does, but they also kill fast
Tkk matters

Also cant forget the small hitbox, faster speed and evasion items

[hardy dust]

And they can't stick with their team directly as effectively

[hardy dust]

That's not as relevant higher up

It helps, but light still dies really fast

[shell sonnet]

First strike advantage does though, which light is really good one

[plain wasp]

I like defib except for the spawn protection it gives because it's usually just extra killssss

[shell sonnet]

The most you get from kills is 500€

But if the defib leads to a wipe on your end that way more

Even worse if they steal from you afterwards

[plain wasp]

I like big numbers

[shell sonnet]

Sadly that alone doesnt win games

[plain wasp]

Killing them right after they get defibbed decreases enemy morale

[blissful iris]

Is the bow viable in any sense ? I feel like a sitting duck when against M11 / MP5

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, that precisely my issue with it

[fleet brook]

I'm tired of nerfs rework it because it's just gonna be worthless

[fleet brook]

A 40 seconds CD that's not that good for destruction and no longer kills is just worthless

Either turn it into a destruction tool with a low CD

Or leave it

[sand monolith]

if you genuinely think this you are either a casual player or terrible at the game no offense

[fleet brook]

A 40 second CD that doesn't apply alot of kill pressure or destroys a lot is worthless

That's not a noob take that's a waste of a heavy slot

[sand monolith]

lol

[fleet brook]

Why would you use a 70 damage 40 CD rocket

[sand monolith]

it does 140 damage

[fleet brook]

I'm Saying if it gets nerfed like everyone is calling for .Actually answer that how is that not a waste of a slot?

[sand monolith]

AOE damage. it can hit multiple people

[fleet brook]

Imo there's 2 realistic circumstances

Embark does embark things and makes it an absolutely useless tool

Or they rework

[sand monolith]

it could do 50 damage it would still be useful

[fleet brook]

You know nades can deal more damage in an area and recharge much faster

[sand monolith]

yeah and good players can move out of the way of grenades

[fleet brook]

50 area damage on a 40 second CD is worthless

[sand monolith]

you are a casual then

[fleet brook]

I've been playing since Xbox beta

(I'm still mad I didn't get to keep my skins but that's a different issue) heavy has much more valuable things he could bring besides 50 area damage on a 40 second cd

RPG as a destruction tool isn't even that good because of its CD

I wonder why I waste time talking to people who are stupid and just say "if you disagree with my stupid opinion you must be new I'm an expert at this game and know how it'd be balanced."

[sand monolith]

sorry i will give a genuine opinion i am just in a game

[shell sonnet]

I mean, that kinda the point
Let heavies use something other than rpg
Currently if you dont run rpg you just loose to one that does

Id rather have underpowered options than op ones, because you can stop using bad items, but you cant stop someone from abusing something broken

Though i do think a damage cut should vome with a reduced cooldown

[fleet brook]

I've been saying for awhile reduce cd heavily reduce damage and increase arena destruction

[sand monolith]

ok hi

RPG needs to be more reactable. the damage isnt the issue, the issue is that teams cannot react before it does insane damage. you shouldnt be able to reload the rpg until you have committed to shooting it.

its inherently unhealthy for a gadget to deal large, instant splash damage

[shell sonnet]

I mean, why should we keep the damage?
Why take your route?

[sand monolith]

because lowering the damage doesnt solve the issue

[shell sonnet]

What exactly do you think is the issue?

[sand monolith]

this

[shell sonnet]

That teams cant react before it does insane damage

But, we could also just make it not deal insane damage

[sand monolith]

i mean it could do 50 it would still be useful and frustrating

[shell sonnet]

But only frustrating if it finishes you off after you say, escape a melee heavy for example

Preferable imo

Only being able to fire it after a reload or after aiming down sight would make it less useful as a destruction gadget

[sand monolith]

both would work but i feel as though making it reactable would be a much more healthy design as well as keeping the impactful feel for the user

[shell sonnet]

But it would keep heavy in that can tank but also dps place

Even with string attached, theyre still capable, which means high level players will keep doing it

The only real way to deny it is to just cut its damage outright imo

[shell sonnet]

You had the reload first then shoot idea, right?

[sand monolith]

yes

[shell sonnet]

That still leaves it open for abuse
It stops easy finishers, or the "im gonna die anyways, so take this" move
But a heavy can still just walk around with it already reloaded in hand at all times

[obsidian nexus]

id love a marksman rifle for Medium

[shell sonnet]

You could make them walk slower with it out to prevent that
But they could still camp corners, or wait to be engaged

It not fool proof and also just makes ir more complicated and worse in general

Imo damage is easier and simpler

[fleet brook]

Fair I've always leaned into the destruction side of the gameplay and want more tools for it

[sand monolith]

i think heavy could use more tools for destrucution but id like to see the rpg be a healthy damage tool

[shell sonnet]

I just dont think there is an actually healthy state for it to be in beyond finishing someone off

[fleet brook]

Tbf the lmgs haven't really been a DPS option this season

[shell sonnet]

I do think they could use a little love

At the very least lewis horizontal recoild

Every class should be combat viable in one way or another witjout gadgets

That only limits loadout options and makes the game boring

[sand monolith]

M60 needs a buff to 20 damage and Lewis gun needs easy recoil with a fire rate nerf

And the hipfire stats of the two weapons need to be swapped

[sand monolith]

or a damage nerf to 20

[formal nova]

can someone tell me the name of the gadget with 2 sideway arrows on the light class that can destroy walls? (not the breach charge)

[shell sonnet]

Do you mean thermal bore?

[formal nova]

yes, how do i go about unlocking it ?

[shell sonnet]

You play the game and get points
You can then use those points to unlock items

[formal nova]

found it, thank you so much. I was just looking for the same symbol in the shop.

[cunning kettle]

depending on performance in game, you earn vrs

sadly they cap out at 3k

[formal nova]

thank you for your help guys

[ornate schooner]

Your welcome

[pearl spear]

I don’t think k we need more melee weapons atm. But a cool idea could be a harpoon that you throw and it has a rope on the that lets you retrieve it and could possibly pull enemies just a bit but not a lot. Also having an attack for close range. And a cool skin for it would be a trident or something. That could also work for the spear.

[ornate schooner]

This ain’t a fishing simulator

[pearl spear]

Get a fish onesie and it can be

[unkempt cypress]

flash bang should be given to light and operate on LOS, glitch should emphazise those who are glitched

[cunning kettle]

Light already has flashbangs

[unkempt cypress]

should operate on LOS and distance only

and should emphasize flashed enemies

Concussion nades would also be good, especially for light. it would fit light's hit and run / disrupter play style, and slows are amazing for picking off those who are not near their teamates, or opening up oppurtunities

[cunning kettle]

No need to reiterate your point, I’m just pointing out the fact that light already has flashbangs

[unkempt cypress]

🤷‍♂️

dementia is setting in

[shell sonnet]

I dont think there is a way to buff flash without making it an issue

More = spam
And making it last longer might make it feel like its cheesing fights
Same with only effecting enemies, not yourself

[unkempt cypress]

i dont think there would be an issue

why would there be spam? only on light / med and both have equally as good util, although medium more than light

[unkempt cypress]

i dont think it should last longer, just be more reliable

[shell sonnet]

Reliability improvements i can get behind
Maybe i missread that

[unkempt cypress]

yes, and light really needs util that doesnt feed into a solo playstyle or for picks

[shell sonnet]

Thing is, what kind of los

Being on screen?
Or just from player to it?

[unkempt cypress]

from player to it, like glitch mine

or DVA bomb from ow

[shell sonnet]

But it already does that?
Its weaker, but it still happens

Im not quit sure what you want to change

[unkempt cypress]

no it doesnt, flashbang doesnt work if youre not looking at it

not reliable at all rn, because people can just turn away

[cunning kettle]

It does

[shell sonnet]

I cant test it right now as its quit late

But i do recall trying to drop it at my feet, run past it to then shoot enemies

I still had a partially white screen

[cunning kettle]

The flashbangs in this game are really wonky

[unkempt cypress]

nuh uh, just expierienced it earlier today

[shell sonnet]

I mean, thats whats supposed to counter it

That should always be an option, specifically with how many games do this

[unkempt cypress]

partial doesnt matter. when it starts to fade then its useless. only usefull when full white

[unkempt cypress]

why? why should it always be an option. every other nade works based on LOS and distance, and soemthing that doesnt do damage having larger distance would be perfect

like there are a LOT of options to break los, I think it would be perfect for the "disruptor" role of the light

[unkempt cypress]

part of what makes it SO unreliable

glitch nade should also always explode on contact, fuse time and bounces makes it super hard to hit rn aside from shields

nobody uses it because its impossible to actually reliably hit, and having it emphasis glitched players would help with the light's lack of teamwork

[cunning kettle]

Airburst it in front of your enemies. Flashes have a short fuse time

[shell sonnet]

Glitch is really impactful
You should be given the option to dodge it

But it just doesnt last long enough to make real use of it

Id increase its duration instead

[unkempt cypress]

wrong direction, they just nerfed duration because thats what makes it OP. Reliablitiy is more important, having a dice roll OP card is dog shit. PLus, explode on contact can still be dodged. RN its issue is taht its fuse time is long, AND that it bounces, making it unpredictable and useless on enemies with half a brain. the distinct sound and long fuse makes it hard to hit already, and bounces make it unpredictable or unreliable, compounding the issue

[shell sonnet]

The duration was too long
Now its too short
A middle ground would be nice

Somerthing like this should not be "reliable"
Good players should have the option to outplay it

[unkempt cypress]

no

[unkempt cypress]

its a tool of rng rn.

[shell sonnet]

I dont have an opinion on the bounce, if its really that negatively impacrful, maybe it could be removed?

[unkempt cypress]

why shouldnt it be reliable

outplaying a glitch nade would be withdrawing during its short duration and then pushing afterwards

having a long cooldown emphasises the fact that you cant outplay it. if youre hit by it, youre just dead with a long cooldown

[shell sonnet]

Every item should be reliable as in doing what its supposed ro
But something as strong as glitch needs to come with counterplay

Just like with frags, you should be able to sidestep it if you have good reaction times

[unkempt cypress]

YES!!!!

[cunning kettle]

Glitches are part of the light meta right now

[unkempt cypress]

nobody uses it for a reason, with shields weak, theres not much reason to use it

its only really useable before a fight, and its duration is too short to actually make a diff

[shell sonnet]

Thats why id like a longer duration

[unkempt cypress]

??? you asked for longer

[shell sonnet]

Give the light a chance to actually go in and do something

Its 5 am and i need to sleep
I notice im not being very helpful like that

[unkempt cypress]

5 sec is plenty, isssue is that its unpredictable and hard to hit. 5 sec is good because its not too op, yet allows the light to capitilize on momentary weakness

having like a 7 sec cooldown might make it opressive

like the issue rn is that its not skill based, and has RNG (bounce) and due to its long fuse, most players move before it hits them.

[shell sonnet]

I dont think so
At least it would be less bad than an unavoidable glitch followed up by immense damage potential

[unkempt cypress]

it would just be harder to avoid. RN its too easy to avoid because half the time it lands nowhere near the enemies

[shell sonnet]

I mean, maybe there is a case to be made about a shorrter fuse?

[unkempt cypress]

it wouldnt be unavoidable, and you have to remember that having the short duration would allow enemies to breifly withdraw and wait out the duration

[shell sonnet]

But explode on hit is not a good idea

[unkempt cypress]

would be nice but still would be an issue, fuse creates an issue because it is based on time elapsed, making it problematic at all ranges but teh "perfect" godilocks zone

[unkempt cypress]

why? it would create risk for the light (peekign to throw) and be a skill check for the light, as well as being avoidable due to travel time and light peeking

[shell sonnet]

During which the light will be all up in their face

[unkempt cypress]

??? lights are glass cannons

they cant push that, so their slower teamates need to, which would make the "effective" time like ~3 secs

if a light would push a full team they would evaporate

most gadgets arent even needed when fighting a light, as most weapon duels result in a faster TTK against the light rather than from the lgiht

its a perfect example of util for the light, it creates oppurtunities for a push from teamates, which is something the light desperately need rn with its solo playstyle

[shell sonnet]

You already need to peek, so this doesnt change anything

Being explode on hit would make it easier to land, actually removing part of the skill
(Although i do admit throwing and hoping an enemy doesnt run away isnt that much better)

And air time does not make it avoidable
If they throw it through a window and hit a wall, thats effectivly instant
Right now it bounces and you can get away

Also, i dont think theyre used as much on full teams
While that is strong and a common use, being explode on hit would allow it to easily hit single people to then bum rush them, which would be bad

[unkempt cypress]

i mean, aside from heavy, most specs arent combat orientated

[unkempt cypress]

you said it yourself, it's similiar skill expression to RN, and would solve one of the biggest issues with it, unreliability

air time totally makes it avoidable, RPGs move much faster and are avoidable, and nades are also avoidable during travel

stun gun is used on solos, and is much better, glitch is mostly used on teams

[shell sonnet]

Im all for team support with this
But it needs to happen in a way that not annoying
Explode on hit would be

Longer effect time would help ity while only punishing those eho fail to move, while rewarding those that do

[unkempt cypress]

what? longer effect time just is an overall buff, not what it needs

punishing those that fail to move seems right? like failing to react to a nade is similiar, or failing to reavt to getting shot

[shell sonnet]

Yeah
But you cant react to instant effects
Not ebough anyways

Unless you run like dash or grapple

[unkempt cypress]

i dont think explode on hit would be annoying. the rpg explodes on hit and is argueably better (130 dmg) and its fine

[unkempt cypress]

its not instant!!!!! the rpg is FASTER and is avoidable

plus, the aoe isnt huge

[shell sonnet]

I wonder how many people would agree on that

Not like there is half a shitstorm begging for an rpg nerf at the moment

[unkempt cypress]

there isnt? i dont think? its fine

like how else would you get rid of this aspect of unreliability?

[shell sonnet]

I dont know

But it needs to have some counterplay

If all else fails, just making a hit more impactful could help

[unkempt cypress]

fuse time is based on distance, so longer range throws, in the "godilocks" zone would be instant and unreactable ( if they come from out of LOS) while close range throws are useless, due to long fuse time giving enemies a long time to react

[shell sonnet]

We coild reduce its aoe and give ir explode on hir, that way you might actually be able to sidestep it

But then its not useable against full teams anymore

[midnight mountain]

fuse is time is time based time

[unkempt cypress]

counter play is present, its called withdrawing, or cutting off LOS

[unkempt cypress]

it has two charges, i would be all for this

higher skill expression and reliability, and requiring flanking / off angles to mitigate the low hp of the light class

[midnight mountain]

I no make a cents?

[shell sonnet]

If you withdraw the light follows up
Might not be an issue in team fights but it screws 1v1s

And you cant force los to be cut

[unkempt cypress]

cover

[midnight mountain]

Sorry me difficulty speak old language

[unkempt cypress]

in 1v1's i think its still fine. the light isn't particularly strong in 1v1's (or anywhere) and this would only really heavily impact heavy

[shell sonnet]

A light can follow you

Wherever you are, (if they explode on impact) they can quickly peak, easily hit a glitch by looking in your general direction and then kill you

[shell sonnet]

?

[unkempt cypress]

cover?? and as well, this still allows for a general "effective" time of abt ~3 secs which is fine imo

[unkempt cypress]

most weapons kill faster than lights ttk against that weapons class

[shell sonnet]

Light is faster, has a smaller hitbox, way less recoil and gets first strike advantage a majority of the time

They dont need to have a faster ttk

[unkempt cypress]

it mitigates the slower ttk, so fights are mostly even footing

just as well, explode on contact requires direct LOS, meaning that the enemy coud hurt the light while they are throwing the nade, and potentially even kill them

while throwing the nade, the light is very vulnerable, and with its low HP, probably cannot push the 1v1 if it is hurt while throwing the nade

[shell sonnet]

Wait wait wait

Do you mean on contact with anything?
Or on contact with a player?

[unkempt cypress]

anything

[shell sonnet]

Yeah no, thats what i suspected
That would be an issue

[unkempt cypress]

why

[shell sonnet]

It feels bad to get an unavoidable instant effect applied

Thats why frags have a timer, so a player with quick reactions can dodge it

Same reason why rpg and winch get so much hate

[unkempt cypress]

1. its not instant, 2. it makes the light vuln. So in the issue you're presenting, that its strong in 1v1's, the light can get shredded when tossing

like the fact it requires direct LOS makes it fair IMO, because the light exposes themself for a chance to make an enemy vulnerable

you have to remember as well, most gadgets and things aren't super usefull in a direct fight, and are more usefull before or around the time of a fight

[shell sonnet]

The flight is not enough time to avoid it
Unless youre a dash/grapple light you cant run fast enough to not be hit

In the half second peek it takes you to throw it you will rarely be seeny let alone shot

[shell sonnet]

And it doesnt even require los because of its aoe

[unkempt cypress]

wy wouldnt it? it explodes on contact, not bounces, so it requires los

[shell sonnet]

An enemy is hiding behind a corner
You know it so you throw a nade there
Without seeing him, you can still hit him with it, no los required

[unkempt cypress]

why woudl they be directly next to the corner

[shell sonnet]

No idea, does it matter?
You dont need los to hir glitch nades

[unkempt cypress]

the aoe isnt that large, unless theyre in the monaco stair cubbyholes, thats not gonna happen most of the time

[unkempt cypress]

yes it does matter, because thats an unrealistic situation that will not happen most of the time

[shell sonnet]

But it doesnt need it thats my point

[unkempt cypress]

i could win the lottery, doesnt mean that automatically means im rich. its a stupid fucking point because it never happens

yea ok you dont need los every 1 in ten times, the other 9/10 times the light gets either shredded or hurt, mitigating the issue

theres not even any garuntee of it being super strong in a fight, as weapons are still you know, the main way of fighting, rather than gadgets or specs

aside from heavy's specs, and dome, i cant really think of other specs / gadgets that would be usefull midfight 1v1

[shell sonnet]

Not arguing against that

But it still feels crappy to loose your options due to something you could do norhing against

[unkempt cypress]

but there is something you can do, back off!!!!!!. the light isnt that damn fast, and using specs or items to close the gap means the light loses the one thing that lets it win 1v1s

if the light is throwing a grenade in anything but like medium range behind cover, they're going to insta-fucking-die. they have the health of a fly and will die from a sneeze

[cunning kettle]

holy shit he got yellow from yapping in this alone

[unkempt cypress]

piss?? what

[shell sonnet]

I mean, they kinda are

And if its explode on impact norhing is stopping you from using it at 5 meters range, no backing off then

[unkempt cypress]

medium range or father also means more time wasted from the grenade effect duration, giving the light a smaller advantage. its almost a direct risk v reward thing

[unkempt cypress]

if i use it at 5 m that means i dont have my gun out. im fuckinig dead

im fillid with holes and not the kind that people like if im using a grenade at that range

[shell sonnet]

You were talking all about cover just a few seconds ago
How come thats suddenly not a point anymore?

[unkempt cypress]

because you need los to use the damn nade. at that range cover isn't nearly as usefull because people just walk around it as well

[shell sonnet]

You need to look in their general direction and expose yourself for a split second, during which little people could react, let alone shoot you

[unkempt cypress]

well then im not going to be able to react nor aim either buddy

[shell sonnet]

By the time they notice you and are ready to walk around it, the damage is already done, theire stunned and you are ready ro engage

[unkempt cypress]

whats saying i notice them first, pull out my nade, and aim as well as throw before they notice me as well??

like why is the light always getting fukcing whispers from god telling him that the enemy is where they are

[shell sonnet]

Thats kind! lights job you know

Catch people off guard?

[unkempt cypress]

well then why not just shoot them? that TTK advantage is all that light needs

[shell sonnet]

Thats sonar actually

If you dont fancy using those, just use your imporved mobility to keep enemies guessing and run away

Usually works if youre decent

[unkempt cypress]

like grenading them and then shooting is so much more risky than just shooting because now they know im here and are loooking in my direction

[unkempt cypress]

yea still letting htem know im here, and you know what happens then? distance, or teamates

[shell sonnet]

Them knowing you exists doesnt help if they cant even dodge the nade

[unkempt cypress]

and if you were anywhere near decent youd know that using a grenade on an unsuspecting target is so much worse than just beaming them

[unkempt cypress]

they can just take cover. or move away.

[shell sonnet]

I do know that, thats why i dont bother with glitch nades most of the time

But i do know that it sucks to get a disadvantage due to something you cant controle or prevent

Thats why im happy they bounce first

[unkempt cypress]

like using 2 difffernet grenades and waiting for the sonar pings is a long fucking time in comparison to lights ttk

[unkempt cypress]

so, you know then that a grenade is not actually better in a 1v1!!! there!!! problem fucking solved dude

it doesnt even do damage which is a huge factor in this

[shell sonnet]

Also doesnt mean its not an issue to get an instant unavoidable debuff

[unkempt cypress]

yes it does. if an enemy doesnt follow up on a debuff its useless.

also, once more, its not damn instant!!! the trackign dart is instant, this isnt! theres a huge distinction between hitscan and projectile for a reason dude

[shell sonnet]

You underestimate how fast grenades are

With its massive aoe a medium or heavy cant move fast enough to avoid it
Not being "instant" doesnt matter if its still unavoidable

[unkempt cypress]

its aoe isnt massive

[shell sonnet]

Perhaps i shouldve explained that better

[unkempt cypress]

cover is still a factor, so just not being within LOS of the light fixes this issue as well

[shell sonnet]

And there is nothinf preventing it

Currently you can avoid ity if youre good enough
Explode on contact just throws the skill expression away

[unkempt cypress]

im sobbing!! no it fucking doesnt dude. what skill exp are you even talking about

[shell sonnet]

Reaction

[random girder]

We talking about frags? Or what?

[unkempt cypress]

theres a fucking reaction in everythig. the light walking around a corner with a nade held out 100% will take longer to aim the grenade at an unkown enemy location rather than the enemy that is already looking at a point of intrest

[shell sonnet]

Glitch nades

[unkempt cypress]

glitch grenade explode on impact or no

[unkempt cypress]

like you can still 100% avoid it if youre good enough

it doesnt just TP to the enemy man, the light needs to aim it, and it has travel time.

theres a cue beforehand to it, as well as travel time and a distinctive noise

[random girder]

no lol its a grenade. Grenades in any game don't explode on contact. The grenades were made to have a delay for a reason. You throw and follow up another play. You know how in some games you can use a skill that isn't really good but it makes another skill super broken? That is glitch grenade. Also they pop after 1 second... Gadgets are made to reinforce a playstyle. Not dictate one... If nades explode on impact (which no competitive shooter does), then all nades would also, and that would make nades super broken and dictate your playstyle.

[unkempt cypress]

wait theres no way its a one second fuse

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, thats about it
I think

Im a bit too tired for this right now

[unkempt cypress]

why would all nades explode on impact

[random girder]

If all nades blew on impact you couldn't dodge. First, the moment you hear the audio cue and see the animation, only the light class has enough movement. And it has to be perfect execution with an instant reaction. This game is made for the casual. No one except top 10 would be "consistently" dodging nades.

[random girder]

Why do all mines have an activation period when you throw them? Shouldn't glitch mines just be instant then? Because the way any and all grenades work is the delayed fuse. The impact isn't what sets off a nade, the chemical reactions inside the shell make the explosion. So if there could even be a reason why an impact would set it off, this discussion can be argued...

[unkempt cypress]

why the hell does this matter

like at all its a game, and theres totally on-impact grenades irl

[random girder]

those work differently and don't result in same explosion. I don't get why the glitch grenade needs an impact explosion. Grenades sit and pop after a second. You remember how annoying grenade launcher on medium was during s1? They had impact explosion. The glitch grenade would be too powerful regardless

[unkempt cypress]

why would it also dictate your playstyel???

[atomic fog]

Who wanna play WT

[shell sonnet]

-lfg

[raven finch]

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[unkempt cypress]

why woudl it be?? it has a pretty short effect duration and its effect isnt even crazy powerfull

[random girder]

If impact explosion, it makes it 100x easier to tag a whole team. The difference in combat potential in a full team with utility and gadgets and one who have been glitched and do not have access to utility and gadgets anymore, is night and day. The effect is very much, that crazy powerful...

[unkempt cypress]

its not? like in a vacuum ofc, but the game is not a vacuum

there are so many factors that dictate why this thing is not crazy powerfull

theres a reason light has almost never been meta

[random girder]

You know heavies RPG? The RPG is in a state right now of being so dramatically powerful (your change would put glitch grenade in the same spot).. That EVERY heavy is REQUIRED to use it. Because of how RPG works, the main weapons of heavy have been shoved into the ground. If you want a powerful glitch grenade im sure no one will mind if your mp5 gets nerfed then?

[unkempt cypress]

mp5 should get nerfs i fucking hate it but bias plays no role in game design

[unkempt cypress]

what? the main weapons of heavy have been nerfed due to its design philosophy. having high damage and high hp means an advantage in every fight regardless of skill

[random girder]

If glitch grenade gets buff, it means more downtime on gadgets, which means main weapons dps goes up... If dps on main guns go up, lights die even faster...

[unkempt cypress]

what?? like what the fuck is this reasoning

[random girder]

Incorrect... Embark balances weapons due to how many kills they see each gun getting. For example after this season, where the AKM has shined over the FCAR... The AKM will get a nerf or at least FCAR getting a buff. The heavy shoots an RPG resulting in 140 DMG instantly.. Cleaning up with their guns, giving them ALOT more "gun kills"

[unkempt cypress]

where does this info come from?

[unkempt cypress]

plus, my main reasoning is still right? even just going by ttk, having an advantage in both health and atleast similiar dps with other classes means that heavies will have an advantage in every fight

[random girder]

The reasoning is explained? If your gadgets have constant downtime and you can almost never use them because light is now meta and every light can extremely easily glitch you. A lot of time during the actual gun fight will be spent glitched, resulting in lack of gadgets. If there is a lack of gadgets, every class will feel weaker, hence embark now buffing weapons.. Which don't get affected to counter the glitch taking away gadgets

[unkempt cypress]

its 5 secs dude. light has glitch and is still not meta. genuinely have you played this game

constant gadget downtime is crazy like

[random girder]

Face it... You got killed because your glitch wasnt instant and you are whining in the discord. You refuse to accept that making one change like that leaves a bunch of holes unexplained.

[unkempt cypress]

im actually dieing

what light needs is reliable util like any of the other classes, and glithc nade as of rn is anything but reliable

haivng something be reliable and not super powerfull is completely fine, a 5 second duration means something like ~3sec effective uptime in a coordinated, good team, and its not like the other team is helpless either

like the other team could simply backup for a few seconds, or still use their main way of fighting, guns

[random girder]

For light to come into the meta a lot more changes than a glitch nade need to happen.

[unkempt cypress]

ofc, and i think its utility in the form of gadgets, like ht eother classes

[random girder]

Heavy is only strong due to gadgets. You now have made all heavies boringly easy to kill now.

[unkempt cypress]

rn light is only usefull when they're stomping players, which is not happening in evenly matched fights, and also isnt fun to play against

[unkempt cypress]

"you" lmao. heavy was always strong because it had crazy burst damage from gadgets, extended hp from shields, large hp pool, and OK dps on top of all of that. its current state is a testament to how good it was, with it still being good with nerfs on nerfs

like its just facts that a large hp pool and dps similiar to other classes with lower hp means an advantage in fights. thats unrefutable

[random girder]

Light class is a good counter to heavy due to it's ability to chip at heavies and cancel its gadgets with a glitch nade. The reason light isn't in the meta is because:

[unkempt cypress]

if thats true lights should be meta because heavy is meta, yet its not

[random girder]

Once heavies get tweaked more and become an equal balance between gadgets and actual gun... Light will be brought more into the meta.

[unkempt cypress]

once again, glitch only lasts 5 seconds. this game has suprisingly long TTK, and its not like a heavy simply needs to sit there and take it. in a fight with only weapons, a heavy has a fine chance against lights due to dps / hp relationships

[unkempt cypress]

its not an issue of op class crushing less op classes, its an issue of constant value

heavies and mediums have constant value (shields, defense, explosives, healing, movement, etc.) and light doesnt

[random girder]

A smart light isn't just gonna stand there for the heavy to trade with. You dodge in and out of combat, pick out the leftovers.. The heavies weapons already have HORRIBLE recoil patterns and are EXTREMELY difficult to control consistently. That glitch effect makes it slightly more unbearable. With that being said.. The heavy wipes the floor with lights because of its gadgets. In a slightly distanced fight between a heavy and light. The light wins. Why? Because the heavy is stunned or glitched. Preventing use of gadgets and making their already extremely weak and hard to control gun even more unbearable.

[unkempt cypress]

Or they could just take cover. Plus the glitch and stun gun are relatively close range gadgets too?

[unkempt cypress]

And they still brings me back to my earlier point, it’s not an issue of a 1v1 or dps or whatever. It’s an issue of constant value. I don’t get what you’re not understanding

[random girder]

Or just don't listen to someones whining to get impact explosion on glitch grenade when he can't even accept the idea that making one change to an item affects everything that single item does. In the case of glitch grenade, it affects all gadgets since they disable gadgets.

[unkempt cypress]

No vru ur just stupid. The glitch grenade does not exist in a vacuum, yet you only consider it in one.

I don’t address an engine independent of the car, and such I don’t address the glitch independent of the game and variables within, yet you seemingly only do so and cannot view it otherwise. You resort to petty insults and such yet do not address the overarching arguement

[random girder]

"petty insults" "No vru ur just stupid" "just stupid" yet he types "ur" and "vru".... My argument is your change is pointless just like you are. The "overarching" issue is light isn't meta because medium and heavy are still being tweaked. The light class is strong right now. It is just the medium and heavy are stronger. Embark buffs the light class and now it is too strong. There is no change they can make to the light to make it just strong enough. Hence why they have been exclusively nerfing things over the last few patch notes.

[unkempt cypress]

Constant ad hominem without actually addressing the problem. That’s what I’m talking about buddy. And you still consider the classes within a vacuum! The light class isn’t strong at all! And the reason is because it only gets value from kills, you make constant generalist statements and don’t actually present the issues you’re talking about

the medium class is fine! The heavy class is fine! The light class needs change, not buffs

Anyways maybe we continue this tmrw

bye bye and goodnight

[random girder]

Value with gateway skipping travel time on cashout. Value with gateway to reposition whole team in an instant. Sonar for intel and tracking. Stun gun for preventing steal without worrying about having to run and die. Go ahead and throw a frag after you stun gun and free team wipe. You are the one looking at it with a narrow field of vision lol... Light has MUCH more value than kills

[unkempt cypress]

You’ve listed 5 things, and none of these really help the team, unlike the mediums movement, healing, or the heavies destruction, defense, and shaping tools

[random girder]

Also buddy just wanted to point out... Everything I said just now comes from the changes embark is making. Whether you like it or not.. What I just described is how the changes are gonna be made. Embark has been exclusively nerfing things to being light into the meta. They already tried buffing light to bring into the meta and they made it way too strong. I am saying these things because it is already what embark has been doing to the game...

[unkempt cypress]

Gateway is good for a Max of 4 times for the obj in a game

Not only that, it requires good comms and good teamwork

[random girder]

legit just watched 3 scrims with appoh who won the round for his team as a light because of those things. Those things brought enough VALUE FOR HIS TEAM AS A LIGHT to be the REASON WHY THEY WON

[unkempt cypress]

And it’s still so much less than the e other classes

[random girder]

Start of S3 the light got nerfed into the ground because they were too strong. Over all of S3 embark has been nerfing stuff every single patch note with VERY few buffs. Light has slowly gotten slightly stronger over S3. You can have your opinions and think im narrow minded but im telling you the approach that embark has been taking over all of S3 to bring light into meta. You don't have to accept it but what im saying is literally what embark has been doing all season long

[unkempt cypress]

Al of those buffs and yet light still wasn’t meta

Because those buffs only helped light get picks, by buffing their weapons. It was nerfed because it was overbearing and still didn’t bring light into meta

[random girder]

How is it less? A good defib or heal beam doesn't change the pace of a game like a gateway from the light class that teleports your whole team into the other team's blindspot and allows you to easily catch them off guard and team wipe with little to no penalty since you caught them off guard your team is still healthy and capable of taking on that inevitable third party

[plucky spade]

Holy shit never give the community the power to balance things

[random girder]

Like I said.. Im telling you what embark HAS BEEN DOING. Unfortunately all your whining about light not being meta wont do anything. This is the path embark has been walking down all season long and unless they get new bosses who tell them to do things completely differently.. This is how they will continue to slowly bring light into meta. It is working, just slower than you'd like. A lot of these small nerfs and changes have slightly brought more power and use to light than at the beginning of season.

[unkempt cypress]

I think it’s still in the wrong direction. All of the other classes have constant utility that’s not damage or picks, but light has what? Gateway, sonar and tracking dart. Gateway has a long cooldown and is honestly better used selfishly than used to transport teamates, sonar is fine, and tracking dart sucks. Not only is this route unfun to play against, it’s also hard to play. Other classes can still be useful without getting lots of kills, however, a light NEEDS kills to be anywhere near useful. Weapon buffs aren’t it

[random girder]

Again not really? Like earlier mentioned… I watched appoh in a high elo scrim dictate the game as a light… it has a lot of value and utility being brought to it by using its strengths and using his teammates to improve his weaknesses

Idk maybe I don’t see it but what I said was how embark is taking the path of bringing light into meta without breaking things and also I’ve always strongly believed light has the highest skill ceiling

[unkempt cypress]

I’m back, tried out the Nades, I’m so fucking wrong my bad g😭❌

[plucky spade]

Did you just call the gateway vaults a technique that doesn't help the team?
Go back to bronze

[unkempt cypress]

nope, they do help the team, it’s just incomparable to other classes util

Defib, heal beam, zip and jump are just so much better than gateway

Same with dome, mesh, barricade, etc

[plucky spade]

You instantly teleport your team to a place, you get to teleport whatever you want through the gateway, you get a get out of jail free card, you can even trap your opponents ( fall off the map, into a mine )

They are not better than gateway, you just lack imagination and forethought

And stop thinking about solo play

Gateway also covers the distance a zipline would, and faster.

Also with less inherent risk since you can't just get beamed on the zipline

[hardy dust]

We should be able to place gateways above the void

[plucky spade]

You can can't you?

[hardy dust]

Nope, it doesn't place unless there's something solid below it

[plucky spade]

Goo helps?

[hardy dust]

I think so, but they mightve fixed it

[plucky spade]

Like goo above the void, gate, destroy goo, teach opponents not to trust an enemy's gadget

[hardy dust]

I saw a clip of that, but without destroying the goo

But it was under something solid too

Its pretty iffy, so more testing would be good

[plucky spade]

That is such, SUCH wasted opportunity, for a game that thrives on freedom

And if embark devs say it's to prevent griefing.... Uhm

[unkempt cypress]

Enemies usually don’t take gateways

[hardy dust]

They do if you place it above a vault

[unkempt cypress]

They very clearly are, both because they are more intuitive and because they are better at helping your team

[unkempt cypress]

ehhh some of the time

[cunning kettle]

can you let it pop mid-air

[hardy dust]

Also doesn't work

[plucky spade]

What do you mean intuitive mein guy

[cunning kettle]

so if theres no solid ground under it it just will return to your inventory??

[hardy dust]

Yeah

[cunning kettle]

such a wasted opportunity

[unkempt cypress]

Gateway you really need to comm to your team where it is, or to take it. Most randos don’t take it, and it’s often not even worth the damn cooldown

[hardy dust]

It has the highest potential by far

[unkempt cypress]

Also gateway sucks for traversal, just throwing it sucks

[unkempt cypress]

In practice it’s less good than in practice theory

[cunning kettle]

its best for verticality and moving teammates

[hardy dust]

Partly cuz it's on light

[unkempt cypress]

It’s good for verticality, but there are many alternatives, and it’s a long cooldown that can’t be destroyed

[hardy dust]

But if you get a 3stack, gateway can be very strong

[cunning kettle]

what alternatives are there?

[hardy dust]

It can also get you free 70m on vaults and let you have a free escape/defensive position

[unkempt cypress]

Haven’t experienced a good team exp with it. My best experience s with it are using it like a tracer recall

[cunning kettle]

and it lets you teleport behind your enemies if you get a gateway behind them

[hardy dust]

Also, you can extremely easily defend a cashout with it

[unkempt cypress]

Lots of zips around the map, jump pad, zip, grav cube, just walking

[cunning kettle]

stun + gateway moment

[unkempt cypress]

Would be a lot better if enemies couldn’t take it. + you pretty much need to dedicate your kit to Nades and stuff, and shields / barricades for this Strat

[hardy dust]

You don't need anything with it, you can basically guarantee stopping a steal with it

[cunning kettle]

1. zips can be destroyed and even then you dont always have one
2. jump pad isnt on light
3. zipline isnt on light
4. grav cube isnt on light
5. much slower and theres not always a way to walk up to somewhere

[unkempt cypress]

Enemies can also just preemptively clear it, or shields. Sledge heavies also fuck this over, and mines and such

[hardy dust]

If you place it above they can't react in time

[unkempt cypress]

I mean if you’re talking just for light and not for the team there’s dash, grapple, and just walking. Vaulting isn’t bad either. Most maps this really isn’t necessary or useful

[hardy dust]

Gateway is the 2nd best light gadget

[unkempt cypress]

I’ve just never actually seen this work. Like it sounds cool and all but I’ve never ever seen it

[hardy dust]

I do it all the time

Ever since they released it in s2

[unkempt cypress]

Just feels like too much prep for a situational thing

also I don’t use stun so there’s that

[hardy dust]

You kinda just throw it once and forget about it. The only downside is you stay within 70m of the cashout but that's really easy

[cunning kettle]

1. dash has horrible verticality
2. grapple is good for verticality but you miss out on good dueling or flanking capabilities
3. as stated earlier, walking is too slow and theres not always a round
   gateway can move your whole team quickly and also its useful on all maps for getting verticality

[unkempt cypress]

It’s nice for extract but otherwise I don’t really use it. Some verticality is nice every once in a while for seuol ig

[cunning kettle]

not to mention the other util like escape routes and cashout protection

[hardy dust]

Its super versatile

[unkempt cypress]

Despite having it off cooldown in my kit all the time, I almost never have to use it for verticality because alternatives are on a lower cooldown

[cunning kettle]

you use grapple?

[unkempt cypress]

Dash

There is just so many ways to vault or climb up

[cunning kettle]

correct me if im wrong but dash has horrible verticality

[unkempt cypress]

It’s not bad

[cunning kettle]

gateway is faster 🤷

[unkempt cypress]

like it’s particularly noticeable on Monaco

[unkempt cypress]

On a cooldown

[cunning kettle]

dont you have it off cooldown all the time

[unkempt cypress]

Yea but I feel like it’s wasteful

[vale obsidian]

you value gate way too much then

[hardy dust]

You should use it more often

[unkempt cypress]

It’s always useful when it’s on cooldown and worthless when it’s available

[cunning kettle]

thats on you for not using your entire arsenal to your advantage

[unkempt cypress]

it’s just cuz everytime I get in a fight I want it off cd

it’s so good as a panic button and again, there are alternatives that aren’t that slow

[cunning kettle]

you have dash as a panic button anyways

[unkempt cypress]

Ehhh

It’s combat and maybe traversal, not a panic button

[cunning kettle]

Just dash away when you get low

[hardy dust]

Dash only works against players with bad aim

You can't use it as a panic button against decent aim

Not an effective one anyways

[cunning kettle]

I mean like if they have good aim you probably will die before you can pop a gateway

[unkempt cypress]

Turning a corner and being in a different building on high ground is a lifesaving reset

[cunning kettle]

If you get behind a corner you can dash to nearby cover

[unkempt cypress]

I mean yea? But also like still being near the enemy means I can get tapped by a stray bullet or something

Like it’s just the difference between active battleground and random building. Less hazards, players, Nades, etc

[cunning kettle]

Back to gateway, if you use it as a panic button the most then don’t use it until you start a fight

[vale obsidian]

just always look for an exit before you run into a fight
ez

[unkempt cypress]

It has a really long cooldown, and this is what I do regardless

[cunning kettle]

40s is not that long tbh

All your dashes regen in about bit less than half that time

[vale obsidian]

if you going to use it in a fight you should use it first then kill le enemy gamer then go throw the gate way

bonus point if the other gate way is somewhere close and reengage able

[unkempt cypress]

I mean yea how else would you use it

[cunning kettle]

If I use it as an escape route I just throw that shit in a random building nearby and pop it when I really need it

Good movement and map knowledge helps me save gateway for when I really need it

[vale obsidian]

i also use it so im always there when someone steal cash
place one gate on cash then do what ever (importent to not die so play save)
if i hear the steal i place down another gate and bomb the guy stealing

[cunning kettle]

Cashout defense my beloved

Honestly you just need to use gateway in a way that fits your playstyle. Snipers can use it to get an anchor on a nice vantage point, daggers can use it to get behind the enemy, etc

[vale obsidian]

love that shit actually have depths as a overwatch player lol

[eager wasp]

fr love running gateway as a sword light, i use it to drop in on a cashout by surprise

also as a quick escape and go back and forth through it to throw off the enemy and get multiple hits

OR as an "escape" for the enemy, to find themselves face to face with a sword lights lunge attack primed adn ready

[vale obsidian]

^^^^

[plucky spade]

Cause it's a team gadget and not an instant win gadget

[plucky spade]

Also gateway is a setup gadget, you can't use it as a panic button, it aint a dome

[cunning kettle]

Setup so you can use it as a quick escape route

[cunning kettle]

Legit said that right here

[plucky spade]

It was more of adding to your point while answering to the other guy

[cunning kettle]

Oh ok 👍

[plucky spade]

Wrong message to reply ig

[vale obsidian]

whats the cd on gate way again?

[plucky spade]

People out here really just wanting their instawin button

[vale obsidian]

feel like 20sec but it could be longer

[vale obsidian]

little timmy want the game to be play for him

[cunning kettle]

40

[vale obsidian]

DAMN

[cunning kettle]

20s uptime tho so 20s downtime

[vale obsidian]

ok that make so much more sense

[cunning kettle]

Yea it’s really nice to know since when your gateway is halfway through cd you know it will dissapear

[plucky spade]

So yeah all in all my guys, DO NOT GIVE THE COMMUNITY THE POWER TO INFLUENCE BALANCE CHANGES

[vale obsidian]

with an *

let high elo people talk about balance bc lil timmy in unrank just want ez op weapon

[north flint]

Too many bad players complain that's why we getting nerfs left and right

[hardy dust]

Your balance takes are horrid 😭

[plucky spade]

Go hit some model clips bro none of us can even get a good balance change going

[vale obsidian]

what was his take?

[plucky spade]

But it's nice discussing bad balance changes

[hardy dust]

Saying shit like model is bad

[plucky spade]

That was bait

[vale obsidian]

oh yeah i completly forgot about that

[hardy dust]

I can't tell with this guy

[plucky spade]

If you can't tell if it's bait or not just dismiss the whining

[hardy dust]

Wanting sniper and rev to 1shot medium and light respectively

[vale obsidian]

me too tbh
he seem so serious

[plucky spade]

Ok for real though revolver two shot leaving lights on 2 hp is annoying

[hardy dust]

I thought he was baiting a while back but he actually seems that braindead

[hardy dust]

But 1shotting would ruin balance

[vale obsidian]

break point is such a pain for balancing lol

[hardy dust]

23m instant 1 tap is not it

[plucky spade]

Of course, ( 2 shot bodyshot would be fine? Not sure, but keep the 2 shot headshot )

[hardy dust]

We saw what happens when break points aren't respected (lh1)

Rpg doing enough to instakill (it's still stupid)

[plucky spade]

Idk it's too infuriating to see 148

[restive plover]

You would have to reduce the headshot multiplier, and things could get weird depending on how much.

Revolver isn't really in need of damage changes I think, just stuff to improve consistency.

[plucky spade]

Actually lower it to 70 per hit

[vale obsidian]

lowering damage without changing break point is also a indirect buff to heal beam

[restive plover]

Smaller hipfire cone, no ads deviation, slight range extension.

[vale obsidian]

brother just want clean number lol

[plucky spade]

Tell me that you dont get severe annoyance seeing a fucking moron get away with 2 HP

Not sure what happens to the other classes but ok

[vale obsidian]

im more happy i survive at 2 hp 😚

[plucky spade]

Jump off the map you know you deserve it letting yourself get hit twice

[vale obsidian]

if you get hit as light just uninstall

[plucky spade]

Literally

[hardy dust]

80 dmg and 1.75x headshot multi

[plucky spade]

Finally no more light

[hardy dust]

Would make it so you can 2 shot light and no other breakpoints are changed

[plucky spade]

Idk like balance point is fine, feeling just feels really off

[hardy dust]

But rev just needs other things, not damage

[hardy dust]

This is good

[plucky spade]

Viewmodel change actually

[vale obsidian]

if i can im going to give rev 1 more bullet just to annoy people

and you can''t complain bc its a buff lmao

[plucky spade]

Tf2 grenade launcher moment

[vale obsidian]

oh yeah the lock n load lol

[cunning kettle]

Guys they totally should replace the cl-40 with the paw-20

[vale obsidian]

it really is a paw gun

[cunning kettle]

(Direct fire 20mm grenade launcher designed to target soft vehicles and shit like that)

[cunning kettle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopup_PAW-20

[north flint]

Let's hear yours

[north flint]

When tf did I say that shit

Are you mentally ill or something

[vale obsidian]

Anti-materiel grenade launcher is 4 word i never knew make such cruse weapon

[north flint]

Seems like you a light main that think you can just fight people headon

[north flint]

There's no balance in guns dumbass

[vale obsidian]

here we go again with the man replying to every msg in chat

[restive plover]

He really wants that green name.

[north flint]

Oh yea but there's no complaining about the balance there rpg can 1 shot light and take away 200hp from a medium but one headshot to a medium is a problem?

[cunning kettle]

Actually it’s anti-personnel but yea

[north flint]

I do idk why they don't just buff it by 2hp

[cunning kettle]

V9S too

[north flint]

I'm not doing that unfortunately

[north flint]

I don't give a flying shit about that

[vale obsidian]

oh yeah let me just scoll up a bit and oh look
your names every where
(def not replying to every single msg that exsit)

[restive plover]

https://tenor.com/view/mods-push-back-his-hairline-gif-11241907652566626707

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-gif-25178472

[north flint]

Yea

[north flint]

😂😂

[north flint]

https://tenor.com/view/scaler-create-impact-relax-gif-25012098

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/haha-gumichan-bird-no-laughing-gif-5128531988218293677

[north flint]

How did you even find this 💀

Did you search for burning asshole or something 💀

[vale obsidian]

no?????????

i saw someone use it so i save it

[cunning kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/i-got-a-meme-for-this-soul-soul-meme-hold-on-i-got-a-meme-for-this-gif-8391846903616460366

[plucky spade]

@spark igloo half of these ain't even that bad

[spark igloo]

Can you name any other good ones?

[cunning kettle]

93r recoil buff

(5th one in a row)

[spark igloo]

Is this sarcasm or are you being serious

[plucky spade]

Throwing knife nerf

[cunning kettle]

Completely serious frfr

[spark igloo]

This one was ok yeah. Anything else?

[cunning kettle]

Didn’t solve the underlying issue with them 😔

[plucky spade]

All else were meh at worst.
Ouuuu the shield that doesn't stay up for more than 2 seconds now lasts 5 seconds

[spark igloo]

this is why I didn't put it with my other mentions

[plucky spade]

Like i've never needed it for more than a quick second or two

Winch also is a good start

[cunning kettle]

Also didn’t solve underlying issue 😔

[spark igloo]

Meanwhile s2 was dropping out bangers like the sa12 and fcar nerfs, recon removal, nuke removal, stun nerf (GOT REBUFFED IN S3 LOLLL), dagger reworks etc

[plucky spade]

Are you really crying about the slow mechanic

[spark igloo]

The winch nerf fixes a minor issue with it, not what it needed imo

[plucky spade]

Dont get me wrong, slow mechanics are inherently bad ( Natascha) but like, it isnt even that aggressive anymore

Lights that dont use it smartly simply die, and the other part could've killed you without it either way

[spark igloo]

The slow is fine, the issue is that specs now get cancelled again. End of s2 it wasn't just a free kill on any cqc player, it is once again in s3

[plucky spade]

The only thing i dont like about stun gun is that it should be a projectile, like every gun, and especially sniper

With considerable flight time

[spark igloo]

Idk

[plucky spade]

Sniper lights shouldn't be getting 240s for free

[spark igloo]

I think hitscan works best for this game, sniper isn't really a problem outside ta

[plucky spade]

There is a probleme with it, just like tf2

[restive plover]

And power shift. ☝️ 🤓

[plucky spade]

But cashout doesn't allow it to be properly seen, due to it inherently being close quarters

[cunning kettle]

I mean with how crap the scope is it’s pretty hard to get the 230 damage in

[spark igloo]

Tf2 has much easier to read hit boxes and specific choke points that require you to stare at the sniper

[plucky spade]

That is a problem that appears around every weapon that requires accuracy

[plucky spade]

TA/Powershift

[spark igloo]

Ta isnt a real mode be fr

[plucky spade]

Why not?

[spark igloo]

It's not made for this game

It can be fun but it just isn't the finals

[plucky spade]

Nah I think it works nicely, an interesting take on S&D

Plus the finals is just a casual game in the end of the day

[spark igloo]

All the sniper related issues in that game mode are of the game mode tho, not the sniper

[plucky spade]

Yeah true that.

[vale obsidian]

nope, i think its a map issue
they copy paste cashout map into ta which just don't fit

[plucky spade]

Sooo when combo weapons ( see asmd from ut )

[wise briar]

Can we get a sniper for M and H as well? It should make sense to counter another L sniper as well as having an option of being a long range shooter ourselves. Geeze

Why do embark love L so much man

[exotic skiff]

Embark love light so much, that this is the worse class

[formal nova]

it does feel more balanced though compared to last season

[grave trellis]

whats the max amount of barricades u can put up

[vale obsidian]

no more sniper
they don't belong in this game

this close range scrapy brawly game

[wise briar]

Either remove L sniper or add sniper to other roles as well. But lets be real. No one is gonna remove L sniper. Embark loves L so much.

[torn mantle]

Is the SA the only auto shotgun?

[polar trout]

4 until the first one placed gets replaced

[polar trout]

Yes, so far

[shell sonnet]

Personally not a fan of just adding more

You need to handicap yourself in most fights, just so youre able to fight back against 1 guy thats annoying you

[wise briar]

Well im not going to walking simulator all the way up to a tower/crane just to realize the light sniper has already fucked off.

[shell sonnet]

Im not saying thats not an issue

I hate that too

But we can probably do better than just adding even more items that break the game

[wise briar]

Well technically its already broken. Especially this new cringe hook was introduced. The better thing to do is for embark to fix all their shit but ofcourse! Skins are the highest priority!

[shell sonnet]

There is a lot of broken stuff
But its not beyond fixing
But better not add fuel to the fire by adding more

Personally i didnt like how they handled this season

Like, they release updates on wednesday so that if something is broken, it can be hot fixed
But then they add a whole new season with game breaking items and leave it be for ~2 months

I think i would have preferred if they just waited a little longer

[upper sinew]

(modern 1911 for M whold be cool)

[lost pivot]

Medium revolver can smoke a light sniper if you got good aim at long range but there is definitely a skill gap between the two. I’m sure you could guess which one is easier.

[jade violet]

add dual deagle into 'the finals'?

hip fire only,for heavy build

medium damage and recoil

[vital breach]

yum

[granite crescent]

very unhappy with how the throwing knives have been handled. they hyper buffed them in S2 when all they needed was some rightclick buffs, but they essentially made them a hitscan machine gun. in turn making the skillful projectile gameplay of them much less fun, and take way less skill. and now after playing this new nerf which heavily nerfed their firing rate, i believe the damage potential of the weapon is now even lower than before the buffs! meaning the weapong that used to have high skill/highreward is now lowskill/lowreward. can we just revert back to the state before the buffs and try again by just buffing the rightclick and leaving the left click alone?

[obsidian nexus]

i dont want embark to nerf everything to the ground. but i feel like model is kinda crazy rn

[old anvil]

its pretty hard to be consistent with

[tiny bolt]

whats the best medium gun for world tour i can controle recoil if that helps

[strong leaf]

Prob famas

Little to no recoil

[tiny bolt]

i dont mind the recoil tho

[shell sonnet]

any assault rifle will do the job
model can be a monster, just need to make sure its not just long range
if you have insane aim r. 357 can put in work, but few manage

the rest can work but they're either niche or painful to try and win with

[tiny bolt]

Yhea i have noticed r.357 is really good im training with it i just mis some shots when im in a bad position

[mild iris]

The akm is rn best, but fcar is consistent with better damage over range, FAMAS is easy to pickup and use but punishes missing more than the 2 ARs. Model 1887 is amazing if you can hit your shots. R.357 is inconsistent and requires you to at least be confident in flicking and use Kovaccs

[agile willow]

model and r357 can beat medium* automatics at close and medium range, but it takes some practice. ar's can get the most value in the most situations, depends on play style

[inland breach]

Guys l’m gonna have to say it. Defibrillator should be turned into a specialization. Medium gameplay would open up so much more

[vague turtle]

Best gadget for light and why

[vague turtle]

No it wouldn't.

[eager wasp]

Not really a best but theres a top 3, gateway, sonar, vanish

gives so much options in a fight, gateway for escapes, coming back for more hits, transporting cashbox faster

sonar so i have a better understanding of where everyone is and what im working with

and vanish as a surprise factor or an escape/help teammates

[vague turtle]

Have you ever tried thermal instead of sonar?

[eager wasp]

thermal vision?, if so, yes, i didn't 1. like the look of it when used, 2. can't see mines or ledges too well, nor glass, seems not that useful unless ur playing ninja like with smoke grenades

[hardy dust]

Glitch

It can shut down full teams for a short period of time, disable shields and give a good advantage in a fight

[vague turtle]

I'm thinkin' maybe Thermal, Smoke, and Glitch

[covert parcel]

glitch or stun
glitch disables abilities
stun gun disables interaction, both are really important, especially in cashout

[vague turtle]

How about for Powershift?

[covert parcel]

ghreandes

lots of grenades, what ever u like

[fleet brook]

Patch and season dependent but I'm a believer in glitch

[covert parcel]

also stun gun is pretty flexible too

[hardy dust]

Stun is especially useful for stopping interaction

The movement penalty is a bonus

[shell sonnet]

I love stunning someone that about to put a cashbox in and yoink it

Saved me the odd match or so

[hardy dust]

Or when they need to deposit a box to start overtime and you stun them at 5s left or smth

Especially when they're right at the cashout too 😭

[shell sonnet]

It feels dirty, but sometimes thats what you gotta do

[granite crescent]

idea for a fun gadget: a secondary pistol. im talking like a 5 shot mini revolver or something. it does very little damage and has very little ammo, but could be super helpful to switch to if you run out of ammo so you can get that last bit of damage off. it would def be niche, and only useful in a handful of scenarios, but also i feel like it would be really strong in those scenarios. could also provide a little range for melee users that could be interesting for a lot of playstyles

[hardy dust]

buff tracking dart damage 🙏

[granite crescent]

This could also be a fun idea

[north flint]

Thats a Horrible take

[lapis girder]

buff grapple

[low bobcat]

meh not really you just have to have good aim. but i also feel that the over powered-ness of the weapon has been blown way out of proportion

i mean don't get me wrong its good it's just theres more broken shit on heavy like rpg n stuff

[low bobcat]

damage dart🔥

[scarlet escarp]

Make Tracking Dart Poisonous

Like A D.O.T. Of Like 30-50 Damage

[low bobcat]

bruh why😭

[scarlet escarp]

FUNNY

[low bobcat]

ah shit good point

[scarlet escarp]

Just Imagine Another Light Running Around Desperately Looking For His Medgun Teammate

That’d Be So Goddamn Funny

Plus It’d Give It Utility Outside Of Tracking, Stopping Health Regen Would Make It A SUUUPPPEEERRR Viable Pick

[low bobcat]

nah thatd just be super fuckin annoying

[hardy dust]

30-50 might be a bit much

and dot effects can be pretty annoying

[scarlet escarp]

Annoying Yes, But Would It Make It A Usable Pick? Also Yes

It Doesn’t Even Have To Be That High, Just 2 A Second Until The Tracking Ends Would Make It Viable On Finishing Or Marking Someone For Death

[fleet brook]

Tracking dart is already usable but I much prefer the tracking knife from TF

[scarlet escarp]

Tf?

Honestly I Woulda Preferred Something Like Titanfall’s Sonar Knife, Woulda Been Cool Asf

[scenic plaza]

idea for the bow: https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/1f27k7l/suggestion_for_bow_buffunique_mechanic/

[spice vigil]

the winch claw and sledgehammer instantly 1 shot light, just making the delay a tiny bit longer would make this way better

[sudden trout]

Is the scar good again?

[rigid yoke]

hi how does weapon xp work, eg leveling from rank 5 to 6

[eager wasp]

its always been good if you can control the recoil

[scenic plaza]

https://www.thefinals.wiki/wiki/Weapons

[scenic plaza]

you can check here and see per weapon.
For example, for Model,

Damage dealt by the Model 1887
0.2 × damage dealt

Opponent eliminated by damage from the Model 1887 (Does not count quick melee finishers)
50

Assist on an opponent damaged by the Model 1887
20

just go to the item mastery section

[rigid yoke]

damn bro around 1000 kills to go from 5 to 6

[scenic plaza]

yeah level 6 is the grindiest among all the other levels

[rigid yoke]

gonna take ages for sword

[sudden trout]

I just remember it got nerfed..haven’t played in a min

[eager wasp]

Almost at level 6 sword chat

this is correct, I’ve been level 5 for so long

[hardy dust]

It gets a bit easier at 7 and 8

Still a lot though

[paper tendon]

Idea for medium/light

CNS grenade: works similar to cloak bomb but you will be in a different server/dimension for 5 seconds where you and the others who were being hit can fight or escape
Use it as a escape or to get rid off an enemy or props for a few seconds

Cooldown should be like 15-20 seconds and the explosion range should be the same as the cloak bomb

While being in the different server/dimension will everyone receive a glitch effect
And other negative effects are being removed

(Similar to the void in titanfall 2's campaign)

That could maybe stop the 3rd party issue in the finals

[shell sonnet]

that would probably end up being used like the deadringer in tf2
in many situations it would deny what would otherwise have been a surefire kill, which ends up being frustrating

[paper tendon]

Maybe should it have a slow equip animation to counter it

[shell sonnet]

It would still be just as bad, it would just happen less often
I dont think there is an amount at which it becomes ok, because it will remain an issue whenever it does happen
And you can still use it after sprinting around a corner for example

If you got other ideas for it, im all ears
Im just very skeptical of the concept

[paper tendon]

Alr, it is just a idea and i am happy to get some feedback towards my idea

[hardy dust]

Its balanced in titanfall because everything is very strong there

It would be a very powerful ability, even if it only affected you

Would probably be used as a free escape tool most of the time

Or a very powerful engaging tool

[shell sonnet]

I was actually thinking of something similar before

An energy phase that allows you to walk through a wall
That would probably end up doing the same thing because you cant chase someone

There goes that idea

(Probably wouldve been buggy anyways)

[hardy dust]

Also, it's kinda similar to gateway

In how you use it

[shell sonnet]

And that at least has counterplay because its incredibly obvious and can be chased through

[hardy dust]

But admittedly stronger in many ways

[hardy dust]

And gateway actually takes setup

[shell sonnet]

That too

[hardy dust]

Although the idea is very good, it's just a bit strong as is

[shell sonnet]

I mean, maybe there is something we could do with the concept of an alternate world

But what might it do?

Not like you teleport somewhere else, but the map changes around a certain item

[obsidian nexus]

sword is making a comeback. MonkaS

[shell sonnet]

Had a guy get 40 kills with it in quick cash, next best in the whole match had 11

Like, even if its a skill issue for all of us
Shouldnt they be fighting better people?

[fleet brook]

Cns grenade mordekaiser ability

[hardy dust]

There isn't ssbm in qc

So every now and then you get some crazy people

[cunning kettle]

does this game even have sbmm

[hardy dust]

Only in ta ranked I think 😔

[shell sonnet]

There isnt?

[cunning kettle]

no

[shell sonnet]

That would explain a few things actually...

[cunning kettle]

as someone exclusively plays qc, its is simply impossible for this gamemode to have sbmm

[hardy dust]

Nope

I think my record for sword in qc is just over 40

Haven't played sword in a while tho

Not properly anyways

[cunning kettle]

my record for sword was like 23 and that was when i was at 120hours playtime

havent touched sword since cuz i simply like dagger more

[hardy dust]

I've been playing more dagger recently

Since I just used sword to get to diamond last season and got burnt out from it

Soloq sword only was PAINFUL

Exclusively because of teammates

[cunning kettle]

dagger is more satisfying since you can instakill basically anything

[shell sonnet]

I love dagger

Using it with smoke and thermal vision to defend a cashout makes you feel like an unkillable phantom, an unseen killer

In general i find defending with it reqlly enjoyable

[ashen hawk]

Smthng for yall to hate abt lol (sm of them actually make sense)
weapons to be nerfed: dagger, sword, tk, m11, xp54, light shotgun, evas dash, invis.
weapons to be buffed: heavy lmgs, flamethrower, winch, bubble sheild, fcar, dual blades, riot shield, guardian turret, demat, defib, heal beam (lol this one is the dumbest).

i mean dual blade riot shield heavy lmg and bubble buff and tk and xp54 and m11 nerf make sense, but defib and heal beam are never gonna get buffed

[plucky spade]

Why did the devs think that spy tf2 with scout speed is a good idea?

[vale obsidian]

shit demand skill tho so i comepletely welcome it

no more overwatch auto win button

[shell sonnet]

Wait, what exactly are you talking about?

[vale obsidian]

dagger

[shell sonnet]

Fair enough

[shell sonnet]

I dont really think its the speed

The big earner also increases spies speed and barely anyone uses it, let alone complain about it

I think its just how stupidly much you can tank with it
Which is especially destructive with the likes of kunai

Maybe also because its on demand, instead of after a kill

[plucky spade]

Cuh, it's not like light gains a speedboost after a kill only, he's the fastest in the game by defaulr

Revert backstabbing radius to 90 degrees. I think they put it somewhere like 180

[shell sonnet]

Oh, i though you meant spy with scout speed regarding tf2

Not as in light from the finals

Mb

[shell sonnet]

Ive never really been backstabbed from the side before, so i dont have an issue with 180° (if it even is that big)

If anything face stabs are an issue, which a decreased backstab area probably wouldnt affect all too much

[real grove]

Backstabbing is so annoying

[plucky spade]

It would help a lot actually

They just want to bring the knife to the spotlight really

[vale obsidian]

agree but also skill issue

[shell sonnet]

How would it help?

iirc correctly, facestabs are caused because the server has some delay/desync, already sees you behind an enemy (when youre actually still in front of them) and backstabbing
If youre looking straight at them, then it would also be in the 90° area

[plucky spade]

It's the delay sure but by narrowing the cone you make it at least seem credulous

[forest peak]

dagger is busted

[vale obsidian]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1204741064800338000/1246735579937509437/My_reaction.gif

[forest peak]

i just went 26 and 6 with it

[vale obsidian]

bc we have doggy doo doo match making rn your kd don't really say much

[forest peak]

you cant negate my ego boost

[shell sonnet]

Are you really being backstabbed from the side that much?

[forest peak]

yeah

if you dash and turn into their side it counts

[shell sonnet]

But that just the servers being doo doo, no?

[forest peak]

the whole animations counts as the attack so as long as you pass through their back hitbox it counts

[vale obsidian]

fun fact, i saw a dash dagger light bout to do that so i "predictively" turn around so it Hopefully hit my face and not my back (it did not work)

[plucky spade]

If I recall correctly dagger was butted

Buffed*

[forest peak]

its been like that for awhile. look up akiba step on youtube

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, thats about it i think

It should be backstabbing from the backside
Not when you just pass it

But that doesnt mean we need to reduce the cone
Just hitreg, so dashing past them doesnt count as backstab

[vale obsidian]

wait this fr? the whole animation is an attack? i thought the window is alot smaller then that

[shell sonnet]

Me too honestly

[forest peak]

well its really just the pushing forward animation on the dagger

its the same with all melee weapons

[shell sonnet]

Oh yeah, like that 1 sledge clip from highlights

They did the heavy attack but swung left during the animation

[forest peak]

yeah exactly like that

[vale obsidian]

i remember seeing a clip of the heavy hammer right click hitting people at the start of the recovery animation lol

[shell sonnet]

Still killed em because of the animation

I still miss multihit

It was so fun :(

[forest peak]

dont forget heavies can out run mediums because of the melee lunge on the hammer

so you cant run away from them

[vale obsidian]

yet medium duel blade can't do the same lol

[shell sonnet]

Yeah, its all kinds of messed up

Sometimes i hit people while i lift the hammer

And then miss the others after it decides to ghost them point blank

[shell sonnet]

That works?

[forest peak]

yeah, the dagger does the same

[forest peak]

absolutely

[shell sonnet]

Weird

Good thing most heavies dont do that

Well, why should they need to when winch just exists

[forest peak]

oh dont forget light has an astronomical reach for the cash out, i grav cubed the cash box and the light reached it from the floor

[tawny plaza]

I think the water gun weapon skin for the flamethrower should replace the fire with water

[vale obsidian]

i don't use hammer but i think sliding while hammer right click is charging up keep your run speed and lunge do the rest of the work (i never use hammer tho)

[forest peak]

yeah

[shell sonnet]

Wouldnt make sense

Why should water burn goo/gas

[forest peak]

exactly replace it with acid

[vale obsidian]

it also change how it looks so people can get confuse in the heat of the battle
water can't burn goo! (it burn goo) OH SHIT!?

[shell sonnet]

Not really burning, but more fitting for sure

Coulve made it ospuze themed with acidic lemonade

[forest peak]

shout out to the one time where i got the definition of a backstab and it count as a regular one

[plucky spade]

It's tf2 but worse

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/spy-tf2-tf2spy-spytf2-gif-19270816

[shell sonnet]

Im thinking about spear a bit

Sledge is so interesting with its destruction ability
Its damage and utility

Meanwhile spear is just damage and...
More damage
(And the aoe doesnt even work half the time)

I would kinda like spear to be the movement melee
Be it pole vaulting, or just straight up spinning it to fly like a helicopter

[plucky spade]

Imagine spy with a dash

[shell sonnet]

I always forget that gif exists, and every rime i see it it cracks me up

[vale obsidian]

big earner

[restive plover]

Spy rocking The Gun That Can Kill the Past.

[forest peak]

who ever came up with the Damascus cooking knife skin for the dagger was cook some serious heat

[plucky spade]

Not the same

[plucky spade]

Ok since you can't get it, light now has 125 hp 🙂

[vale obsidian]

oh sheeeit i forgot about thatt

[plucky spade]

I can't

No you know what? Fuck it, if you think you can be a smartass with an instakill, you should be an instakill as well

Shotgun sneezed at you at close range? You should've been more careful.
Heavy spots you? Whoopsie daisy, you play the sneak playstyle, now die

Think you can be the edgy 12 year old with the matadors and stairstabs? Do me a favor and jump off of the nearest seoul construction site

Ok that went a bit too far

[restive plover]

How many daggers do you deal with on the regular? I barely ever see it.

[shell sonnet]

Thats something i kinda thought about

Like, comparing spy and light

Spy has a harder time flanking
(Because you can only flank from behind and need to pass the enemies first)
Where as light can come from anywhere and also has incredible movement items

Spy has way less verticality to make use of

Spy does less damage and basically needs to rely on a very risky knive

And yet light can attack out of cloak, where as spy does not

[plucky spade]

Well I dealt with it once, that's all it took ( also played with it, the feeling is abysmal )

[shell sonnet]

Personally i think cloak is kind of weak (or at least it feels bad to use imo), but i dont think it can be buffed either

[plucky spade]

Cloak is fine

[vale obsidian]

they can make it more fun to use without changing the effectiveness mayhaps?

[plucky spade]

The only part where spy wins is gun

[shell sonnet]

Im not quit sure what you mean

[plucky spade]

Spy has both a gun and backstab

[shell sonnet]

Oh, yeah

But the revolver (while it can get work done) is more of a last resort
Not a 2nd primary

[shell sonnet]

Buff its charge, but increase the activation cost proportionally

You use the same amount for spamming it
But if you dont spam you can use it a little longer

Or remove the activation cost, and make being revealed by being shot while invisible remove a certain % of it

If you use it carefully and dont get seen it lasts longer

[forest peak]

dagger need a buff frfr

[shell sonnet]

Opinions on this?

One option for defib might be to make the defib target actually respawn (as if using a token, but without actually doing so), instead of revive

Its quit an extreme change and it would make it fall of quit a bit
But thats what needs to happen imo to get it balanced

Its still useful in avoiding wipes (and maybe cross-map movement shinanigens), but the wipe penalty being avoided along side the time saved would be way less game breaking than brute forcing a win through sheer numbers advantage

Like
If a medium gets a defib off, in that situation you are no worse off than without it, since its still a 1v1, not a 2v1
Making it less frustrating

A medium actually has to consider if its more useful to revive someone normally, of if its so dire that they just need someone alive right now

And heal beam will be less broken, since someone thats dead is actually dead
And not 3 seconds away from being full hp again after the defib goes off

[hallow current]

I like this idea but it is indeed a lil harsh of a nerf. But it's a creative idea. Making them use a token on defib but they come back full health. Pretty interesting

[shell sonnet]

No no, without using a token
That would be way too harsh

Wasting a teammates token would also be bad, and it would leave defib useless once theyre used up

It would just act like using one (but without actually doing so)
With the downside being that you lose a teammate until they have run back to you

[soft bridge]

this is how it used to work but this was changed during s2, you cant "pass through" someone to get it to count as a backstab anymore you can only stab them in the back

[fleet brook]

Beta cloak was kinda amazing but also barely reflective when people were moving

[shell sonnet]

I think the visuals are currently pretty ok
Just the usage time is pretty bad imo

[fleet brook]

That would make it dog water and how would it work in modes with limited tokens?

[shell sonnet]

It wouldnt use tokens

[fleet brook]

Invis used to work a lot differently

Basically the reason invis eats a bit of it's usage is because people would toggle invisibility instead of using it as a get in or get out tool

[shell sonnet]

I didnt like that either

But maybe there is a way to increase usage time while still punishing spamming it?

[cursive rivet]

whoever’s idea it was to make throwing knives crit was smokin somethin crazy. the ttk is so insane. ur not winning a 1v1 against throwing knives unless the person actually doesn’t have thumbs

[shell sonnet]

I mean, it can prevent wipes if you absolutely dont have the time to revive
Like when both teammates are down and you are in danger

The money and time saved could still be very strong if a bit niche

[agile willow]

i see a bunch of lights thinking that invis is essentially full invis at close range, and rush while cloaked thinking that people can't see the shimmer or hear the sound

[shell sonnet]

We could probably revert some of the nerfs it got too

Like the reduced charging