💣┇weapons-gadgets

[fleet brook]

Dash

/ Calling the grab out to your teammates

Not running alone

Stun gun

"Play cover"

[dim carbon]

I think a cryo grenade and mine would be cool

[cunning kettle]

thats why i said most of the time

besides, cover is kinda bullshit. i managed to grab a guy while he was running behind cover. legit just teleported through the wall

[fleet brook]

Tbf weird server stuff is most noticable with winch

[cunning kettle]

also the range on winch

[fleet brook]

Range on winch is wonky to me both to short and too long

[cunning kettle]

hide indoors and just snatch a light like something out of a horror movie

[royal pier]

Range is 18m. For comparison, stun gun is 17.

[cunning kettle]

thought it was 17 and 16 respectively

[royal pier]

It's a bit inconsistent.

[fleet brook]

Yeah it's just long enough for me to overestimate it and short enough for a light running/ dashing away to get out of range quickly

[fleet brook]

Tbf stun is a guarantee kill/ big damage on a heavy

[royal pier]

The wiki does say 17 for winch, but just recently I pinged a cash out at 18, and got it.

[fleet brook]

Low value is misses/ objectives

[cunning kettle]

cds

[fleet brook]

Players are considered high value targets different CDs

[royal pier]

The CD is longer for players.

[cunning kettle]

im talking about range

[royal pier]

I'm guessing that the effective range is 18 because of the hitbox of the target.

[cunning kettle]

and yours. im pretty sure the winch starts a bit out in front of you

[royal pier]

Probably.

Point being, stun is equally as devastating, and is functionally the same range.

[cunning kettle]

also the fact that spear does 145 damage on the first two hits is so silly

[fleet brook]

Winch starts from The player think hog hook

[royal pier]

But one is a secondary gadget.

Winch probably shouldn't go though shields, though. That's a nerf I accept.

[fleet brook]

Most hooks in games start from inside of the player whever it's launched from

[royal pier]

Yeah but this is Embark.

[cunning kettle]

id accept it but thats what makes winch so funny for stopping steals

and if they want to stop winch they can use barricades instead

[fleet brook]

Hogs og hook started in his arm if you're looking at purely hitbox/ animation

[royal pier]

It is funny, but also Mesh especially needs something.

Then you have Charge countering Mesh, Winch countering Charge, and Mesh countering Winch.

[cunning kettle]

also winching mid-fight to let your opponent burn when using flamethrower is another thing about it that i like

[cunning kettle]

imagine if you could qm to "parry" a winch

[royal pier]

If only the burn tics were in any way reliable.

They can have the burn effect on their model, and be taking no damage.

[fleet brook]

It'd become mega useless unless the window was insanely small

[cunning kettle]

imo having to actively block the winch would be a better way to balance than just having mesh block winch since mesh is 750hp and nothing but glitches stop it

[fleet brook]

Id also like to say stun gun on console is abhorrent and who ever decided the turn speed is a monster (jk but not on the turn speed part) especially on heavy

[cunning kettle]

i mean like the point is to have the mesh be able to block the winch

[snow forge]

Got a goofy bug with the torch charm the flame is insanely small

[fleet brook]

Mesh in ye olden days was one of heavys best specialization arguably his meta one

[snow forge]

rip old mesh bro

[fleet brook]

Old mesh was cancerous

Endlessly shooting a sheild reminded me of OW 1

[cunning kettle]

didnt old mesh have 1k hp and glitches werent impact

[snow forge]

oh yeah for sure haha instant invincible barrier type shi

[cunning kettle]

"you shall not pass" ahh spec

[royal pier]

I want them to make it have maybe a bit less health, but regen far faster than it currently does. Encourage using it offensively instead of passively.

[cunning kettle]

heavy walking at you with two mediums with fcars spraying you down is gonna be horrifying

[royal pier]

Make the shield a bit smaller.

I mean you can also already do that tbh.

You could give it the same effective up time, but it won't feel like you're constantly spraying at shields.

I'm at work and couldn't test, but ty to Ruriko for this clip.

This is how Sledgehammer can catch someone faster. Even as a frequent Sledgehammer user, this isn't ok and needs to be fixed.

I believe they're also working on a clip that shows how you can use an emoticon to spam heavy attacks faster.

Using a slide right as the heavy attack starts to enter the "release" part of the animation causes your hitbox to extend unnaturally.

[timber idol]

i just got the community event skin

[somber python]

Are two breach charges more damaging than C4? Asking because I'm trying to do that contract where you stop a steal

[timber idol]

i dont think so

[fleet brook]

Nope

[timber idol]

also i was thinking we could have an enderpearl type grenade where it teleports you to where it lands

[somber python]

Ok cool 👍

[spark igloo]

Still is

[spark igloo]

Just use two c4

[fleet brook]

Can't

Without pre planning and CD

[spark igloo]

So just do that

[somber python]

Eh the time for the second one to regen is inconvenient, plus light has the mobility and close range dps to combo the breach charge with. Hang back, detonate, jump in

[hardy dust]

Breach charges do 50 dmg

[spark igloo]

80

[somber python]

Huh

[spark igloo]

Each breach is 80

[hardy dust]

Oops mb

How much does c4 do again?

[somber python]

At least 149 I think?

[hardy dust]

I think stun gun is pretty good for stopping steals contract

[somber python]

You have to KO them I'm sure

[hardy dust]

Oh

I thought it was just stopping it

[somber python]

Grenades and gateways might work but I think it would take too long to kill

[hardy dust]

You could try dagger, setup a gateway above the cashout and tp + backstab when someone tries to steal

But then you have to play dagger

[fleet brook]

Could just do mines

[somber python]

Yea but they might elim before they go for the steal

[vale obsidian]

Just_don't_peek_bro.mp4

[umbral copper]

when will they fix sword animation cancel? Sword would be a lot worse.

[vale obsidian]

thats not even a link

[soft juniper]

revert dash please my internal clock is messed up now

[somber python]

Pain

[vale obsidian]

stop with the advert, no one give one fck
@rocky marten

[rocky marten]

https://tenor.com/view/laser-raptor-kung-fury-rapid-fire-laser-eyes-lasers-gif-25967994

[pallid iris]

Whether you play power shift or cash out, we can agree the snipers should be abolished right?

[vale obsidian]

yes

i can ramble on and on about why sniper should not be a thing in fps game in genaral tbh

[bronze spade]

make that a skin and event in the game NOW

[rocky marten]

[bronze spade]

now has anyone tried to throwing a barrel at a heavy at the moment they winch

rip explosive game event

imagine that a heavy winch clawing a light only for it being the explosive game event going on

[torn mantle]

is there any case where the m11 wins in a technical battle where both people land all their shots?

[vale obsidian]

this will most likely answer most of your question https://esportsrambles.com/blog/the-finals-weapon-statistics

[obsidian nexus]

id love for sniper to be reworked to a projectile based weapon. the hitscan makes the counterplay extremely boring and 1 sided. just dont peek and get close to them is extremely boring

[vale obsidian]

making it projectile won't fix anything other then making the skill floor higher
anyone that is not shit will be able to use sniper like normal

[obsidian nexus]

then it wont be as easy to play. and it will take actual skill to use the weapon

[vale obsidian]

dosn't change the fact that its unfun to fight and still 0 counter play

sniper is a balancing mess in every game ever

like why dose it in the game in the first place?

[obsidian nexus]

i agree, but if there has to be a sniper in the game. hitscan is the worst possible way to do it. ive played against so many snipers in powershift. counterpicking them. getting close to them. using cover. but its just so incredibly boring and frustrating to play against. that i think it should be a projectile.

[vale obsidian]

i have a copy pasta i used to spam in #👂┇game-feedback :

remove sniper entirely, it never fun to fight and the only 2 counter play is just bad while the 3rd is just don't peek. even if they didn't hit a single shot at all the sniper existent alone make people change their playstyle (no skill free value)

counter play 1: you shoot the sniper (you die)
counter play 2: forsaken your random teammate to fight 2v3 while you try to kill the sniper, and when you finally get there
your team is dead and are berating you for going on your own and guess what? the sniper grapple away and it all started
again

[obsidian nexus]

100%

[vale obsidian]

@torn mantle m11 got nerf? i never felt the nerf tbh

[torn mantle]

it got one at the start of the season

[rough carbon]

Bullet drop would make me respect the weapon more

[alpine sail]

@rough carbon this

[bleak cedar]

Imagine a gadget that lets you see directly through walls or some time of phantom mode where you can just go through the walls and enemies? I thinks thats just cloak with extra stuff right?

Think*

[vale obsidian]

uhm (cough cough) recon sense

[bleak cedar]

Yeah

[vale obsidian]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1182330443626983485/1200417566426935356/RECONSOYRECONSOY.gif

[bleak cedar]

I cant really think of a new gadget, like maybe a huge explosion around you

[vale obsidian]

i can think of one!

blast grenade

do minimal damage but alot of kock back
to both self and enemy

[bleak cedar]

Mate thats bad and good at the same time

To steal is good but to fight is meh, maybe making distance

[vale obsidian]

its a grenade that more focus on mobility then damage

[bleak cedar]

Good ideia

But jump pad

[vale obsidian]

think about it, although the mobility is worst you have 2 charge

sometime you don't have to jump to the roof

just the second floor, and this nade is best for that

[mint kraken]

How about a remote controlled explosive like junkrats tyre in OW

[vale obsidian]

too much burst damage for such little comitment

it being a hybrid of frag and c4 is also a bit epy

[rough carbon]

A long nodachi skin or a two handed claymore skin for the sledgehammer please

[vale obsidian]

i thought for a sec you mean a claymore duck tape to a stick for a hammer skin lmao

[fickle charm]

Flyswatter skin for hammer so I can swat lights out of my face

[rough carbon]

A horizontal speed gate that launches you, a heal grenade, flare gun that sets people ablaze, maybe a harpoon gun for the heavy that has massive knockback and can pin people to walls, a Tommy gun for the medium, a Bo staff that the medium could use to pole vault to second floors, a doomfist gauntlet for heavy

[vale obsidian]

i was thinking a heal alternitive spec for medium

what ever it is, it have a resouce meter and that meter can only be gain throw doing damagee with your gun

[merry trail]

Why are melee weapons so much fun to use

[vale obsidian]

heal and what ever utility in there focus on single target lingering/burst effect either be heal, speed, or what ever

[weak kernel]

because you get to focus on and are rewarded for positioning/moving well in a game with a lot of fun positioning tools

[naive flume]

I really just want the spear to have a different alternate attack, every time I use it I just get beamed because I can barely move, it's only use case is for capturing the platform in power shift. Let us be able to throw it or something

[polar cove]

Would a breach charge-like thing for medium be a good idea? They're the only class without a destruction gadget

(Not including demat it's a specialization not a gadget)

[vale obsidian]

demat is such a janky spec

can't even make hole that i can fit throw with 2 charge most of the time

[vale obsidian]

lick embark shoe and you might get it

[cyan meteor]

the finals < the lights meta

[vale obsidian]

heavy meta in rank < light meta in casual

[sharp mason]

Sledge has ruined my day again

[vale obsidian]

bro you are the class with the most mobility in the game VS a melee bond turtle

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-urge-resist-cat-gif-25536160

[lofty stirrup]

Maybe change spears right click instead of spinning to actually throw it and if you do you lose the ability to left click for some period

[restive plover]

What Is the spear playstyle supposed to be

[vale obsidian]

it dosn't have to havee it own playstyle

just a side gread to the hammer

[restive plover]

Make the spear like a throwing weapon to replace the heavy attack

[merry trail]

General consensus, how are the dual blades?

[vale obsidian]

i don't use melee but alot of melee main tell me to use riot instead

[frozen idol]

Yes

[hardy dust]

Its pretty bad

Has all the issues of a melee on medium (no gap closing tools)
The damage isn't much better than riot.
The deflect is extremely inconsistent, and most of the time full damage negation (riot shield) is much better.

Overall it's basically just a downgraded riot, and riot is already bad

[cunning kettle]

spear + winch is anti-light asf

[hardy dust]

Winch is just anti anything 😭

Except heavy, because the only thing that beats heavy is heavy

[restive plover]

Unless they have dash

[vale obsidian]

sorry i didn't hear it the first time, say again?

[restive plover]

I take it back

[cunning kettle]

just realized light attack +qm will kill a light

im so stupid

[rough carbon]

As a sword light playing sledge heavy is fun

[merry trail]

DAMN, winch has some RANGE

[hardy dust]

Good thing they nerfed it

The only decent counterplay to winch

[rough carbon]

Lights kinda had it a little too good recently anyway

[hardy dust]

Not really

Nothing changed the fact they're the weakest class and heavy is the strongest

[restive plover]

Even increasing lights health would make lights cracked in my opinion

[hardy dust]

That would just ruin the identity of the class and make balancing a lot harder

[vale obsidian]

"everything counter light and good light counter everything"

my opinion about light in genaral

[hardy dust]

I don't think a good light can counter everything

[vale obsidian]

RPG the anti light spray
good light dodge it all the time

https://tenor.com/view/water-spray-stop-sprinkle-water-gif-11895255

[merry trail]

Thoughts on KS-23?

[soft juniper]

My fav thing is going point blank on a heavy and damaging them enough so they die instead of me

[dim carbon]

It's a fun weapon, just needs a slightly faster slug reload. Pairs really well with the anti grav cube

[civic cairn]

NOPE, i think the secondary attack is actually very powerful (if you know how to use it)

[restive plover]

True but I never understand its Mechanic. Can you explain

[civic cairn]

If you do the swing, you can get 2 power hits in very fast, get your target to that health level, then use it

you can hit a medium once, then do the swing to combo and kill

[flint spoke]

hows the model 1887?

ive used it a few times and it felt good but I never see anyone running it

[wicked jungle]

It’s good for playing defense on TA

In my opinion

[merry trail]

Like all shotguns/melee it depends on the map and where you are

Wide open areas = reeeeeal bad, lol

[teal ginkgo]

Is sword still viable to play?

[flint spoke]

it seems to have rlly good range tho

the dmg falloff isnt bad and the spread is fairly tight

[meager dawn]

it's good, decent range on it for a shotgun

[hardy dust]

Really good, one of the best weapons in the game

The spread is super tight and it has good damage breakpoints

Hitting 2/3 shot kills on medium/heavy is pretty common at midrange

If you can manage the harsh missing penalty and gimmicky reload it's arguably the best medium weapon

[wispy portal]

The old western skin makes the shot timing so much easier as well. Goated gun

[lone vector]

I love sledgehammer🔨 just reverse the nerf

[stoic frigate]

Best weapon for medium?

[dim carbon]

I've been maining the famas

[hardy dust]

Probably model

All the ARs are pretty good, but fcar is ever so slightly behind imo

[bronze spade]

sniper should have damage drop off and a increase to bolt reload

[bronze spade]

wtf is the l1h1 having 100 m

[dim onyx]

wtf is up with tk like 0 fucking skill to use them while two tapping you bc fuck you

[restive plover]

They should definitely add a lever action to the medium class

[formal crown]

what if the devs made a super strong gravity glove as a utility/gadget where it can pick up large debris from broken walls and roofs....

[merry trail]

It has dropoff.

[restive plover]

Technically yes but effectively no, 80 meters is huge.

[hardy dust]

At 80-100m 😭

[bronze spade]

at 100m, it should be lowered to 60m

[merry trail]

It's... a sniper

It's designed to be used at long range

[bronze spade]

most weapons dont even hit that range

[merry trail]

Most weapons aren't a sniper rifle, lol

[bronze spade]

yeah but thats a problem, how are you going to counter a good shot

like honestly sniping doesnt belong in the game

before the fcar nerf i can say there was a way to counter

its bad enough that its a hit scan weapon

[hardy dust]

Its not very fun at that range

And gameplay > realism

[restive plover]

Sniper should just get killed honestly.

[merry trail]

Ah yeah, that's a great idea, gut and butcher a whole ass weapon/gameplay style because you don't like it

[reef vector]

Using sniper in power shift has gone too far

I just had a game with a full team of snipers and i was the only medium in it

Even the enemy was full snipers

[restive plover]

It's irrelevant (but annoying) in cash out/bank it and downright oppressive in power shift and terminal attack. Nothing of value would be lost.

[hardy dust]

Turn it into something that fits more with the game

[reef vector]

Hipfire nerf?

[hardy dust]

No

[restive plover]

The hipfire is already garbage.

[hardy dust]

If anything a hipfire buff to promote close quarters gameplay

[merry trail]

Anyone who can get insane with the hipfire 1 shot quick melee deserves every kill they get.

[hardy dust]

Making the weapon better up close but worse at far would be better

Since it's only really an issue at range (except in ta, but ta is broken in general)

[cunning kettle]

hipfire buff + a range nerf would be interesting

but you can quickscope alr

[hardy dust]

Quickscoping sniper fits the game way more than campy sniper

[reef vector]

Yeah true

So what can they do to need campers

Nerf whoops

ADS?

[royal pier]

The explosives change was a terrible idea. The MGL32 and CL-40 were already hard to use, and then they make the already tight breakpoints even tighter because you'll lose a couple points of damage where before it would have done max.

[obsidian nexus]

cl-40 feels super rewarding now. ive been almost exclusively running it since the changes. in last rounds i always go AK or model but the CL-40 absolutely shreds lights, and if u can hit direct hits u can demolish almost everyone. i love how the CL40 is now. its not a AOE weapon anymore, it feels like u Have to hit direct hits

[royal pier]

It was better before

[obsidian nexus]

it was better before, im not gonna beat around the bush with that. but for me, since its harder now, it feels more rewarding. and as i was saying. if u hit direct hits the weapon still absolutely schreds.
if u dont get direct hits or JUST a nade by their feet. the weapon does almost no damage

[bronze spade]

just get rid of the scope for the sniper

[fickle radish]

so cl40 now is like a slug shotgun but way worse than the other shotgun. Ok rewarding but still useless

[shell sonnet]

thing is, while it can feel rewarding, it can still be sup par

in my opinion, cl-40 is basically model 1887 with:
-2 less shots
-lower damage
-projectile instead of hitscan
-with self damage

in return for
-very slight splash damage that deals barely any damage unless you hit right at their feet
-a slightly faster reload
-destruction ability

[obsidian nexus]

in return for mine combos, and way more fun. but thats just my honest opinion. i like model once in a while.

[shell sonnet]

mine combos are fun, no doubt
but imo it often feels like i had to use them to have a decent chance at winning, especially against mediums or heavies
im not sure if any other weapon needs to rely on gadgets this much (except maybe dagger and dash)

now that i think about it
what exactly was the issue that lead to cl-40 being nerfed?
2 shotting lights?
shooting their own feet and winning?

i want to try and come up with potential reworks

[hardy dust]

Cl40 was bad before the nerf

I think embark tries to "rework" bad weapons but ends up making them worse

93r got a 20% dmg nerf for jack shit and they called it a positive rework

Who said that?

[vale obsidian]

explosive rework really fck splash weapon, atleast it buff direct hit
(funnily enough it also mean rpg get a buff because you direct hit with most of the time anyways)

this chart is base made on my cl40 main gut feeling

don't know if its the same for every other splash weapon or not?

[shell sonnet]

They nerfed rpg to not 1 shot lights
Im pretty sure it still cant 1 shot

[vale obsidian]

by buff i didn't meann more damage

i meant the "area" that you do 100+ damage is bigger

[shell sonnet]

Oh, yeah

Doesnt feel like that for cl-40 though
But that may just feel like that because i didnt play it after the nerf, but just picked it up again recently after the explosive changed

[vale obsidian]

cl40 my beloved 😭

they did not even buff it total damage per mag and now this

[shell sonnet]

To me it kind of feels like its loosing its identity

Its a splash weapon that doesnt really do splash anymore
If you want to go for direct hits, just use model 1887, more damage and easier to hit

Like what was the issue?

If it was shooting you own feet and winning they could just have increased self damage

[vale obsidian]

i think they tried to buff explosive but ended up nerfing it instead

[soft juniper]

what if vanishing bomb had a second function where if you hit an enemy with it they get a vision distortion

[vale obsidian]

would only annoy enemy

[shell sonnet]

So basically flashbang, just different?

Flashbang is already underused and not that good

[vale obsidian]

i don't think invis boom need a buff

[soft juniper]

if the flash lasted longer/went off sooner it could be a real good gadget then again fi that happens we will all just be playing white screen simulator

[vale obsidian]

even if it do, that change would only be ever situational and won't be a meaningful buff

[shell sonnet]

Would you like to discuss possible reworks for cl-40?

I gtg at the moment though, ill hit you up in here later on
Hope thats alright

[vale obsidian]

i would just buff it direct hit damage

but if embark want my beloved cl40 to be a noob tube shit stomper the just give it 2 more bullet and up the fire rate

[hardy dust]

I was just talking about weapons

[vale obsidian]

porb won't change the reload tho or maybe give it the double reload like the model 1887 or KS23 have

[hardy dust]

Sorry if I wasn't clear

Comparatively speaking

Guilty

[shell sonnet]

i got a little more time for now

i would prefer cl-40 to not be a noob weapon (or ideally be low skill floor, high skill ceiling)
noob weapons tend to be good in bad lobbies but struggle to keep up in good lobbies

something like that is one of the rework ideas i had written down though

[vale obsidian]

its the least i ask for

[shell sonnet]

ive got a document with ideas, pros and cons somewhere, 1 sec

[vale obsidian]

atleast buff my cl40 EMBArK

[vale obsidian]

yoooo can you send me the link? i'd like to see

[shell sonnet]

meh, its just a spitball text document with like 3 small ideas
didn't write well either, its easier if i just sum it up rq

brain aint braining, thats gonna take a little, lol

now that i think about it, i might as well just post the first one while i write out the rest
then you can already give your opinion on it

idea 1
+increase aoe size
pro's:
you leave enemies at 1 hp less often (because the radius for high damage is bigger)
con's:
literally just makes it easier to use/less skillful

//
idea 2
+increase ammo by 2
+increase rate of fire
-increase reload time (to prevent excessive spamming)

pro's:
-you get more ammo to shoot people with, making it more forgiving to miss directs against lights
(and since it still has low damage on splash, you wont be 2 shot as light unless the enemy medium is really good, kind of that low floor, high ceiling weapons should have)
-you're not forced to reload anymore if you miss 1 shot against mediums and heavies
con's:
-spam (slightly offset by increased reload time)
-being more forgiving might also be an issue depending on standpoint regarding this weapon

[fickle radish]

It only needs to be reverted. Before nerf almost nobody was already using cl40, it was fine, not op, not too good and not too bad. I dont get why it was nerfed that much, probably only cause of TA

[vale obsidian]

they say "it make explosive feel more consistent" 💀

[shell sonnet]

ive seen people complain about mediums shooting their feet and being 2 shot as light

thing is, if feet shooting was the issue, an increase in self damage would have been enough

and lights kind of have all the tools to avoid it
like, any specialization helps, grapple can just stay out of range at all times, dash can dodge shots pretty easily and cloak should get the first strike anyways
even if you don't count them in, there are other ways to outplay cl-40
staying at range is already very helpful, and just strafing or bunny hopping can also be really strong against it

[vale obsidian]

self damage is already high enough

i lose every time i hit myself even once

[fickle radish]

As always the only problem of the gun was with lights. It's crazy how many good stuff was changed only to try to balance an useless class that already makes no sense. If you remove light from the game you solve like 90% of the problems the game has rn.
(I'm not saying that I want lights removed, but I think that is important to point out how many problems are linked only to that specific class)

[shell sonnet]

idea 3 (basically tf2 loch n load)
+faster projectile
+higher explosive damage on direct hit
-incredibly small aoe unless you hit a player (it should still destroy buildings, if its coded to be tied to the explosion, make it like .25 meters big, otherwise, just tie it to direct hits)
pro's:
-no more low skill spamming kills
-greater reward for hitting directs
-expands on its core identity (by helping more in big team fights)
con's:
-higher skill floor (may cut off some people from using this, but who really cares, we have stuff like that already)
-might remove destruction depending on how its coded

[vale obsidian]

everything is balance around light because the class with the lowest health in the game are the most sensitive to Break point

im not the best in grammar 😭

[fickle radish]

I know, anyway game would be better without lights unless they hardly rework them

I want them removed tbh. A class that goes against teamwork on a team based game is just plain useless and annoying. Every (rare) match I get without lights is way more fun.
Light is just that class to attract new players cause "parkour"
*Insert the office meme here

[shell sonnet]

idea 4 (tf2 normal grenade launcher)
+increase damage
-grenades turn into rollers if they hit anything that isn't a player, rollers explode after a set amount of time
pro's:
-direct hits are rewarded more
-misses can be avoided more easily, reducing the impact of bad players
-opens up some dynamics with area denial/spreading apart teams
con's:
-spam

there is probably more to all of these that i just didnt think about

[vale obsidian]

yeah we should do that for the heavy mgl

https://tenor.com/view/bigcupofcox-stblackst-soldiersmorningcoffee-tf2-gif-18530915

[fickle radish]

And it's really annoying to see that almost every patch since d1 was made around trying to make lights somehow useful while nerfing and changing everything else

[mellow pivot]

if heavy launcher gets impact it will wipe entire teams without effort

[shell sonnet]

please no

i love mgl32, its hard to get used to but its so unique and if you get used to its shinanigens its incredible

[vale obsidian]

how about just giving it direct hits

[vale obsidian]

xDDDD
you joking right?

[shell sonnet]

just direct hits and misses behave as usual?
yeah, thats be fine by me

[mellow pivot]

no im not

ive mastered that weapon it wipes teams now as it is

[vale obsidian]

dude you will rarely ever get direct hit when you spam
you can nerf the damage?

[shell sonnet]

how much time/what level do you have on mgl32?

[mellow pivot]

i have 260 hours on it 7th skin

[vale obsidian]

i've tried it once
dominate a game with it

[mellow pivot]

if they are in a room trying to steal a cashout u wipe them easily

[shell sonnet]

ive heard a phrase in a video, cant remember what video

they mentioned "weaponized jank"
i wonder if that applies to mgl

[mellow pivot]

people try to use it like the medium launcher so they thing its bad nah its all position

[vale obsidian]

weaponized jank LOL
i love that lmao

[shell sonnet]

and strategy
if any of them just tried shooting the ceiling, they would instantly think differently

probably....

[vale obsidian]

bro mgl shooting the ceiling is so funny

[mellow pivot]

i use it with gas or pyro mine its destroys

not gas regular

[shell sonnet]

i once stood in the doorway at the very top of a monaco house, lobbed some random grenades that bounced on the ladder, i just randomly 2 shot a light :, )

[mellow pivot]

put a mine on the ceiling above the cashout and wait lol

[vale obsidian]

rocket jump offf the air

[shell sonnet]

shooting around corners is a great part of this weapon

[shell sonnet]

i just open it up with charge n slam usually

however, i have a rather funny strat similar to that for medium, got some clips lately, let me pull it up rq

[vale obsidian]

spamming left click while sniffing glue is a core part off this weapon lol

[mellow pivot]

motion sensor works good to if ur on a roof shooting through a window

[shell sonnet]

you have hear about ice fishing, now get ready for:
battery fishing

also works great with frags, mines rarely land on the person youre trying to kill

[vale obsidian]

nade trapping are the best bro 😂

[shell sonnet]

i usually use motion sensor with sledge
throw one through a window, go 1 floor below them and just heavy attack the ceiling

[mellow pivot]

i really need to find s team for tour i bsrely play it cause i always get double light and they dont do anything

or i get new people that dont understand what to do

[vale obsidian]

welcome to solo que

[ancient jay]

GUYS PLS HELP!!
is it possible to use custom animations on the golden akm?????

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/wobble-pensive-emoji-pensive-ish-wobblepensive-gif-26167268

[shell sonnet]

not sure
but idk why it shouldnt

thought there are some issues with holtow fine print for example

[mellow pivot]

wich channel can i go to to find teammates

[vale obsidian]

deez

[raven finch]

<:thefinals:1108025386081714196> LFG CHANNELS

Europe: #lfg-eu-casual • #lfg-eu-ranked

North America: #lfg-na-casual • #lfg-na-ranked

Asia: #lfg-asia-casual • #lfg-asia-ranked

Oceania: #lfg-oce-casual • #lfg-oce-ranked

South America: #lfg-sa-casual • #lfg-sa-ranked

Go to id:customize to show/hide specific channels.

[shell sonnet]

i got another idea for cl-40
what if we make the grenades sticky?

if you hit a direct, it will always do max damage, since it sticks to the person, but if you hit the floor the enemy can run away before it goes off

[vale obsidian]

nah

its a would another weapon

[shell sonnet]

ive go a sound effect from a random grenade stuck in my head now and i dont know from what game, help

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/lazypurple-tf2-team-fortress2-scottish-resistance-gif-18385684

[shell sonnet]

i wish, sr at least sounds a little soothing

what i got stuck in my brain now has irratic chirping

what about (mid flights) manual detonation?
introduce a factor of timing to aiming, could make it more skillful

might just lead to m1+m2 spam tho...

[sand monolith]

I always thought that the MGL should just replace the RPG as a gadget

[near cairn]

Pretty frustrated with the way that the sledgehammer's alt attack can still hit me when the heavy moves his camera towards me after the hammer hits the ground like sweeping my ankles is equivalent to smashing my skull in

[vale obsidian]

lingering hit box D:

[shell sonnet]

i also thought some weapons should be gadgets for a while
but in this case i think it would really be too strong as a gadget
and nerfing it would just kill it

being a hard to use, somewhat niche option is preferable

[sand monolith]

Really I feel like 6 shots on a cooldown would be fine tbh. And if you shoot and put it away it would still go on cooldown

[shell sonnet]

but obviously with a cooldown you cant use it at all times
so if you enjoy its playstyle/ups and downs you just cant do that anymore

you can keep it in your pokets for occasional damage but not much more

i really enjoy it as a primary weapon, and if changed at all to fit a gagdet slot (be it damage, a cooldown or something else), then i probably couldnt do that anymore

[cunning swan]

spear or sledgehammer

[long valve]

i would like to see the bow fixed. allow pulling back the draw without releasing arrows while invisible. Also, like almost every other bow found in other titles, add a key to cancel draw. This would partner well with the first change because you wouldn't be indefinitely trapped in the drawn bow state while invisible. ✨

[fleet brook]

Bow doesn't have flare like sniper so you'd be completely unseen able to do damage and no other weapon besides melee allows you to deal or have damaged prepared while invisible

[fleet brook]

That takes away destruction from heavy

[long valve]

Sniper also allows you to instantly kill targets from incredible distance, while scoped and invisible

[fleet brook]

Sniper has its flare is what I mean even if you're invisible your gun still flares

[sand monolith]

Then buff the destruction of the MGL and you get more destruction than before and also less unhealthy player damage

[fleet brook]

It's the white light when a light is aiming with a sniper while invisible

[long valve]

i would argue the flares effectiveness in preventing the benefits of being cloaked and scoping targets, but i think we would have a hard time finding common ground. If you want to advocate for some indication of someone drawing a bow when invisible I would agree. I just find the strengths of the sniper while cloaked introduces inconsistencies when compared to the bow

you could cloak, remain unseen, see the target, wait for them to become vulnerable and your ability to kill them with a sniper is available in two clicks, whereas even with the bow you still have to draw it back, or have it pre drawn and sacrifice the ability to climb and movement speed. If there was a distinct sound or indication of someone drawing a bow while invisible this would be even more apparent.

[vale obsidian]

What if bow have a flare? but just a tiny burst like the tiny flash you see when the bow is fully charge

Just enough to "saw" it but not "see" it

[long valve]

Yeah that's not a bad idea, or it grows depending on the charge of the bow. I was even thinking sound indication or some sort of directional cue when it fully charges.

It definitely introduces some interesting concepts to think about, and I think it needs something more than where it's at right now to fit in with the other weapons.

[vale obsidian]

I was thinking it only appure when you fully charge just like what you see in the bow user pov

[long valve]

Imo, the biggest negative would be trying to prevent people from charging the bow, firing and leaving cloak, then immediately pressing cloak again and charging the bow while unseen.

[vale obsidian]

So its clear how and when the flare appure

[long valve]

that's not a bad idea you could do some cool things visually too

[vale obsidian]

Tbh i don't mind that at all because the light will have to spend all their cloak for this one engagement

Leaving themself naked for the next fight

[silk cargo]

the main reason why bow is used over sniper is the lack of a flash/glare

[long valve]

this is a good point i didnt think about

[long valve]

do you mean in general, or for close/ or long range engagements, or specifically while invisible?

[vale obsidian]

I thought its close range consistentcy?

Also more awareness

[silk cargo]

all of the above, the glare is usually the thing that gets sniper players killed

[long valve]

hmm, I'd agree and disagree. I can't really say because I think it depends on the type of player and the bracket of the match they are in. I think a player with pretty decent aim doesn't take that extra time in scope and benefits from seeing the targets position while cloaked and the handling of the sniper over the bow. If you stay in scope longer to line up shots then I could see how the bow would be a better option, but it wont help you contest a sniper at range.

That's also why I say though that the bow, when considering cloaking, feels inconsistent compared to the sniper and how other weapons behave. It's just easier than saying, a good player could abuse a cloaked sniper more than a bow. That's just not really something u can gain anything from discussing and it's more of an opinion outside the scope of the topic.

[silk cargo]

imma just say flash on a bow would be a terrible idea, and that sniper is used in high level play more than the bow for a reason

[long valve]

thats fair, i think flash is a good consideration but if a better idea comes up id be open to that as well

do you think you would be opposed to flash/flare on bows if it was only while cloaked? because as it stands currently there's no firing the bow while cloaked at all really.

[vale obsidian]

if we talking about mid range playstyle, bow is a sniper but better *-range * which is such a weird place to be in

but for a W key 360 quick scoping ADHD auto-upload to tiktok playstyle then bow is just better in every way imo

[fickle radish]

Bow is what sniper should have be since d1

[robust island]

Yeah it’s fun

[robust island]

What if instead of falling it had reverse falloff and it was worse at close range

Never mind that’s a terrible idea

[steel moat]

Throwing Knifes

[vale obsidian]

i wonder

[past thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/oops-gif-17471199068082330017

[vale obsidian]

@past thicket you need level to use gif

[sudden chasm]

Let’s get some tasty weapon inspects and reloads for bow. 😮

[long valve]

^^

[vale obsidian]

i like hook as a concept, just like you said its a really good gap closing tool

but with a hammer thing got out of hand so quickly lmao

[polar trout]

Should prolly make it so you actually have to hit the hook, like with hog in ow. If it hits someone and they get behind a wall, it disconnects. Also it seems to me like if they touch the chain at all while it's out, they get pulled, which doesn't make sense. An opponent should have to be hit by the claw.

[dim carbon]

Do you think the sniper is well tuned? There's always complaints about light snipers en masse but I don't hear calls against the weapon itself.

[lone vector]

I love sledgehammer🔨#reversethenerf

[eager wasp]

#dontreversethesledhammernerf

[eager wasp]

make it projectile and not hitscan

[mental nacelle]

bring back nukes

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/ginger-gun-gif-18227831

[eager wasp]

would be much better because then it would take skill and not sitting across the map pointing and clicking on people

[mental nacelle]

tbh model 1887 janky as, sometimes you shoot point blank at them and no damage, other times 120 dmg from half across the map

[vale obsidian]

i don't get why making it projectile will fix anything at all, like yeah it take more skill just like how the lewis recoil now take more skill, basically fcking low skill player while only annoy high skill player

but it still annoying af at long range, there's still no counter play/ way to fight the sniper back when he's a light year away

[eager wasp]

the counterplay is not stepping a foot outside

[vale obsidian]

i don't count afk-ing behind cover as counter play 💀

[dim carbon]

My main counter to snipers that's been working surprisingly well is the tracking dart. Having their position exposed to the whole team makes them more jittery in their movement and positioning

[vale obsidian]

holy shit track dart actually have a use

[unreal dove]

chain grapple is a crutch

[fleet brook]

Janky network (at least on console) would make that suck

[fleet brook]

Man doesn't even know what it is

[slim iris]

buff dagger

[timber idol]

I think dagger is quite balanced

[spark igloo]

dagger just needs a way to interact with lights without it being a 0-10 matchup no matter what the light is running

[crimson merlin]

Ok so keeping up with my 1920's Chicago theme the 1911 for light, tommy gun for medium, and bar for heavy. One gadget I thought of was a glider for either light or medium 🤔.

Hell we have a lever action shotgun what about a lever action rifle for light?

Chambered in .45-70 Govt

[lament mountain]

i wish the wire skin for the defib actually made noise

[reef vector]

yeah

they were so annoying, it was a sell pick not to and it took away from actuall strategy

i think tear gas for medium would be nice

so theres something that doesnt fully help ur team cus some people dont want to help that one light that always dies

thoughts on a universal specialisation that all classes can use and its a sidearm pistol with really average stats and its cooldown is just like a bit between reloading

[shell sonnet]

i would put it on light

getting to high ground is very important for a glider
for medium movement items are gadgets, meaning that if you want to use a glider, you should probably also run another gadget that synergy
meaning 2/3rds of you gadgets are used up just to make this work (and with how oppressive and overused defib is, your loadouts would pretty much be set in stone with little differences, pretty boring)

on light it could work, it would work really well with grapple and somewhat well with dash (and you still got most of your gadget slots left for whatever else)

however, i do question the existence of a glider to begin with
you need movement items to make it work decently often, but in that case, you may as well just run over where you want to be and use movement to get high ground there
otherwise the only other aspect i could think of would be speed, which grapple and dash already provide (also zipline and jump pad on medium too)
and it would probably get you beamed out of the sky a bunch

as cool as it sounds, it would probably never be really used
too situational, doesnt offer enough

[crimson merlin]

The glider would come in handy with a jump pad or zip lines to gain momentum OR you could run off a large building to glide a bit in maps like Sky Stadium and Seoul

It was mostly an idea to be akin to batman as I can't think of 1920's styled gadgets only maps and guns sadly

[shell sonnet]

yeah that's the thing though
you use up a zipline that could get you somewhere faster, just to make use of another item that has the same purpose (it basically just wastes a slot)
i suppose it would be slightly helpful with jump pad, to go faster even if you cant place it at an angle, but that's pretty situational (and imo probably never worth it compared to what other items in said slot could do)

[fleet brook]

How it's already a one tap

[vale obsidian]

usefulness of the double movement really depend on your playstyle, more specifically how argo/ support are you?

im a very agro guy and i use double movement form time to time, its really useful for getting the jump on enemy that just saw you a sec ago

[fleet brook]

Zip opens up alot of play with the map and taking unique high ground quickly especially if your squad lacks vertical movement

[shell sonnet]

but its not double movement
you use up a movement item to be able to make use of a movement item, basically buy 2 get 1

[fleet brook]

Zip is bad because you're not being creative with it

[shell sonnet]

what?

[fleet brook]

Sorry wrong server

[vale obsidian]

let me find a clip

[shell sonnet]

lol

[fleet brook]

I'm in another finals server and someone's calling the zip gadget bad

[shell sonnet]

just for the record, i know you dont need to use another item to use a glider
but its use cases seem rather limited without it and wasteful with it

[crimson merlin]

Then what about a jump pack for light that charges and has a fuel guage? It gives you a few options of movement a forward, backwards, and sideways jump pack dash, and a hover/flight movement?

Albeit the flight is very limited in terms of speed to keep balance

I have mentioned a minigun before that kind acts like the Tomislav from TF2

But realisticly what would suit a 1920's Chicago in terms of gadgets? I got guns already but we need gadgets we can't add a mollie we have fire grenades maybe a skin?

Maybe a manned turret emplacement?

Idk... I can't quite think of gadgets that would make sense

[shell sonnet]

hmmm i could see that working
it would kind of compete with grapple, both are used less frequently but can be used to reach great heights
a jump pack should probably have a longer cooldown or other downside in exchange for it hover ability

but i do see 1 massive issue
mgl, certain arcing projectiles and melee would all be entirely unable to fight someone who is hovering
think of melee vs stung, but except being unable to reach them due to speed, you cant reach them because they fly
it could end up being frustrating

unless you remove the ability to shoot while flying, which would kill most of its upsides compared to grapple
it would at most end up being a slower grapple that you can controle more easily

[shell sonnet]

someone has been posting about a potential minigun for a while now (i think like 120 days?)
but they want it as a special which i think would be a bad idea

it would basically remove the downside from close range weapons
and a general "oh s*#t" mechanic that forces a retreat by oppression would be frustrating
this is less conected to you, more of a general opinion bramble

a minigun as weapon though...
that could be nice

[crimson merlin]

Well the downside is the more you move erraticly aka trying to fly the more fuel you burn up

[shell sonnet]

as deep rock galactic fan i would (obviously) recommend something like the leadstorm minigun

[crimson merlin]

I want it as a weapon with a 5 second spin up, slower move while spun up, and AP rounds to go through walls since the bullets won't destroy the walls

[crimson merlin]

Help me figure out gadgets for the 1920's Chicago season idea I had the weapons I chose are gold a BAR for heavy, Tommy for Medium, and a Lever action rifle for light

[shell sonnet]

with a 5 second spin up you cant defend yourself
and it would be the only weapon that can shoot through walls, it just promotes spraying and praying/spam while the enemy cant fight back, not a good idea imo

[shell sonnet]

well, we need some inspirations
whats some iconic stuff from the 1920?
is there anything interesting that has been invented or discovered during that time?

[slim iris]

Low grav boots? Or also a balance change could be you can't shoot while you're hovering / jumping kinda like demat you have to hold it out to use it

[dim carbon]

Thoughts on a handcannon for heavy?

[crimson merlin]

We need an AP route m8 I have had some messed up issues where a ceiling collapsed and made a slope with cheeky spots people would shoot from the mingun could counter this

[crimson merlin]

Or wall run boots!!!

[shell sonnet]

but then that issue is only solved if you choose to use this weapon
for everyone else, the problem still exists

and in trying to fix something, you break another thing

[shell sonnet]

i actually thought of sticky shoes once, for wall/ceilng walking

[crimson merlin]

Fair point

[shell sonnet]

thing is, it would look weird to be upside down but face your pov be right side up, so youd need to be upside down too
which can cause motion sickness

but maybe i have another idea rn hold up

[crimson merlin]

Perhaps i mean R6S did it pretty well while rappelling

[shell sonnet]

im not familiar with r6

[slim iris]

now that is something that would be really cool

[crimson merlin]

Ah

[crimson merlin]

Or perhaps let each class have a natural ability like light wall running, medium a combat roll, and heavy idk what he could have

The only current difference each class has now is gadgets, abilities, move speeds, and jump heights

[shell sonnet]

ok, cant be bothered to draw it rn

basically, it would be a small, belt like ring around the light, from which legs come out and just walk on stuff like they were a spider
you could remain right side up, since the legs move you in a way that allows such (where unlike sticky shoes, you dont need your legs sideways or upwards for example)
only issue might be arachnophobia, with the legs and all
how easily is that triggered?

[slim iris]

I don't really like that idea but if so I would love pickable passives

[crimson merlin]

Maybe some .50 cal turret emplacements around the maps that can be manned?

If not what about an Event where hostile robots and turrets on treads invade and attack both teams?

[crimson merlin]

Ah ok and I like the sound of this idea to my idea a pickable passive system would be nice

The robot event idea is basically based off of terminator

If not maybe a hostile turret event called RED PROTOCOL which a bunch of turrets are activated and they are out for all teams they can be destroyed but they are quite hard to take down

[shell sonnet]

would probably screw with balance too much

with damage you would hit important breakpoints like 2 tap lights with the revolver or similar (rpg/mine 1-shots if it applies to them)
health also screws with ttk, just the other way around
speed would remove/lessen part of what keeps close range weapons balanced, thinks of a sledge heavy you cant outrun

another important factor
i think throw on and forget things are boring (having them be on cooldown and you just activate them every now and again doesn't make it any better)

[crimson merlin]

My passives idea was as I stated

[shell sonnet]

Oh no no, abilities might work

But i dont think passive stat increases would be good

[crimson merlin]

Light wall run and double jump, medium combat roll and dolphin dive, and heavy idk

[crimson merlin]

Ah ok and by dolphin dive I mean it can be multi directional akin to Max Payne

Maybe for heavy his melee can break small holes in walls to shoot into?

If not he needs 2 abilities to match how the others have two

[shell sonnet]

Actually would have an idea for heavy

Energy punch, just punch through a wall to destroy it and make a quick passage
Not for viable for self defence or major destrucrion, unlike charge n slam
low damage but deals knockback (which would be very nice to get someone off of you when using mgl)

[crimson merlin]

I like this what about a second?

Ground pound? Where if he falls from a height he creates a damaging shockwave around him that does a small bit of damage but knocks opponents on their butt

[shell sonnet]

Too close to charge n slam

[crimson merlin]

True

[shell sonnet]

I though we could let him pick up rubble if its small enough (so broken walls, floors etc.)

Break some stuff and make a barricade
Clear stuff off a cashout
Build some stairs if need be

[crimson merlin]

Oh! I got a gadget actually! R6S inspired barricades the heavy can use to reinforce a rooms walls and only the thermal charge or C4 can breach them and breaching charges 😬

[crimson merlin]

He could also throw the rubble at people

[shell sonnet]

Thing is, everything a class has is pretty obvious

Hp is listed
Speed difference is noticeable
And weapon, specilisation and gadgets are all chosen by the player

You know how your build is different

How would, you add someting like these abilities?

Its also another independent difference between classes that the devs would have to keep track of and balance

They would obviously be interesting, but i do think this whole thing is a bit questionable

[crimson merlin]

Well do it like titan fall the wall running you started losing momentum the more you ran

And the other abilities can easily have like a stamina bar next to the sprint stamina or they can use the sprint stanmina

[shell sonnet]

That would be the balance of said ability, but thats not the issue im reffering to

[crimson merlin]

You can add them as passives

Like each class has different health regen, hp, sprint speeds, and jump heights they can be added passively

[shell sonnet]

But how would you pass that knowledge onto the player?
Make a whole new section that you need to pick options for?
It would probably be a lot of work for little impact
It alsl might increase pressure on the devs, sincebthey then have another thing to keep in mind, balance and expand upon

Maybe we could turn a few of those into gadgets, but anything more would probably be too fundamental as a change

People have already been complaining that the finals is starting to be less of itself

[grave trellis]

did the akm get buffed or sum

[hardy dust]

Nope

[grave trellis]

i feel so good with it

[abstract depot]

You’ve learned that Ak make that kk sound

[ornate furnace]

Did dash need a nerf or am I just jaded

[hardy dust]

Dash didn't need a nerf

[sudden chasm]

93R still feels like an extra struggle to use.

[hardy dust]

Its still the worst weapon in the game

[bronze spade]

i want some dual wielding guns in this game

[summer fable]

Sarge i needed a nerf

[hardy dust]

Hello topfinalsguy27

[summer fable]

its was literally the most used light specialization

[hardy dust]

Cuz the other ones sucked

Cloak didn't, but its hard to use properly

[summer fable]

fuck cloak thats bitch shit

[hardy dust]

I'm eating fried rice rn im a fried rice eater this shit so good

[rain zealot]

Relatable

[merry trail]

Man I rarely see lights using the SH1 anymore. Not that I'm super complaining, lol. Did they nerf it or something?

[hardy dust]

It got buffed actually

A big one too

[fleet brook]

Lights best specialization but then again that isn't really a hard spot to fight for

[ornate furnace]

I was about to say because, under no reason or excuse did it need a nerf did Oscar do this?? Did Oscar play heavy and get outran by a dash light?

[merry trail]

The shotgun got buffed???

[fleet brook]

Trying to catch a light without winch is cancerous but that's just venting

[merry trail]

SH1 not LH1, lol

[ornate furnace]

You're a heavy, you weigh like, 7 tons and you're chasing a short person who's coked up off adrenaline, under no circumstance with or without dash should you be able to catch a light without winch, that's logical and completely fair, they only added winch to give heavy some grounds because all lights would do is out zone them, now comes the issue of how the hell do you fight a heavy with winch 😭

Sledgehammer winch, rpg winch

[merry trail]

You pray to sweet lord shadow jesus they don't have the spear

[ornate furnace]

Welcome to the finals where rng decides your level of enjoyment 😔

[merry trail]

I've seen a lot of people say that spear is downgraded sledge. I say at least you can get away from the sledge...

[ornate furnace]

ONG, my friend drops 30 kill games with spear

[fleet brook]

Without winch can't catch em

With a consistent winch heavy is annoying

[ornate furnace]

Idk gang, how many light nerfs till you realize just rpg the fast baby

https://tenor.com/view/rpg-heavy-the-finals-nuke-gif-11275910163824416790

[fleet brook]

So what about the 40 seconds in between

[merry trail]

As a Light main, my best advice is to try to bait the winch, and try to keep a mental 7 second countdown on when they can do it again. That is if you either don't have the stun gun or it's on cooldown/not loaded. Otherwise get the drop on them, attack before they notice you. So. Y'know. Light stuff. lol

[fleet brook]

Because during the TK meta they were like roaches

And forcing fights constantly because lights choose when to fight

[ornate furnace]

You have mesh, dome wall, mines, winch, flamethrower, more HP, spear 90% of your options one shot a light

My friend puts down a mine and pulls people into it and it's gg

[merry trail]

To be fair, with Light being about as sturdy as wet paper, they should be encouraged to pick their battles. They can't just charge in unless they've got good teammates or better positioning. Even then, if who they're fighting has as good or better aim then them, they'll still end up losing if they don't run.

[ornate furnace]

Even when I play heavy the only thing I really lose too that isn't a skill difference is a light 500 meters sniping in the corner of the map

[fleet brook]

You only have mesh or winch I run a melee build so winch is better for me

Good lights run stun/ glitch grenade because that's how you fix 80% of what annoy light (that's what I do)

Also I play destruction heavy

Yes a meta heavy beats a meta light but I'm playing melee with C4 and RPG and third is a switch slot

Also telling people "just rpg" is terrible advice because if they're new they effectively don't know what to do for 40 seconds

[ornate furnace]

I'm sorry but if anyone's dying to stun anymore it's actually just their fault, if you're stunned as a heavy you have 6 years to get your medium to heal you or your teammates on your ass to kill that light or make them run

Stunning is so niche now

[fleet brook]

laughs in solo Q also on console getting stunned as heavy is super annoying you don't always die but someone determined to make the turning speed nothing in console

Stuns effectiveness is gambling on what platform they're using to play

[merry trail]

Oh I haaaaaaard disagree with that, lol. If you get a stun, you will get that kill unless you're staring them in the face or you don't move. At least in my experience. That and unless you go in with a premade, your teammates will never be there to help in time, lol

[fleet brook]

Also the whole glitch grenade getting rid of every way for heavy not to get zoned out

[boreal laurel]

Stun is instant death for melee light (i.e., me)

[fleet brook]

I'm not saying that light is op

I'm just pointing out without winch a heavy is never catching a light

And light has tools to get rid of most of heavies options if they don't want to be outranged

And if they're smart they'll just run away from you where you can't follow

Stun

Use glitch to destroy all your anti range options

Been playing since beta and I don't understand why everyone sleeps on glitch grenades

[fleet brook]

They'll fix 80% of your problem as light

[boreal laurel]

Plus XP-54, LH1, bow, throwing knives…light has no business or necessity even to get within range of a heavy. Kill them from across the room and it’s GG EZ. (Of course I’m one to talk, being a sword main 😄)

[fleet brook]

Yes light should be able to pick they're fights the thing is if someone is good at picking fights they'll never pick one where they're at disadvantage basically guaranteeing they can always start fights at advantage if they want to

[fleet brook]

Yeah

Light isn't op but a good light is obnoxious

[merry trail]

I wish I could use the bow. I see people looking like they were born with a bow in hand and I'm over here can't hit a damn shot

[fleet brook]

I find it pretty easy and fun

[merry trail]

So idk if this is something worth considering, but maybe the Spear's alt attack should be a 1-2-3 combo too? Instead of locking you into the full set of swings, you have to continue to hit the button to spin?

Maybe make it so you just keep spinning if you keep hitting the button. That way it's not such a huge gamble.

[stoic frigate]

plz nerf knives

too op

[sacred cypress]

Throwing needs a nerf with some form of reload animation and the Lewis gun needs to have less recoil it's juts too much

[cunning swan]

is hammer like dagger left for quick strike and right for slamming it down or smth

[timber idol]

Or maybe just increasing the cool-down bc I think a reload animation would be hard to do

Like how would throwing knives reload

[lone vector]

New light gadget idea: mad milk from tf2 but ospuze

[timber idol]

Frag grenade skin: can of ospuze

I would actually use that

[sacred cypress]

Having to pull each knife from a pocket or taking time for it to materialise into ur hands, that would be a good reload and I seen plenty of others recommended this same idea too

[timber idol]

Ah I see

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/animated-overwatch-2-genji-reloading-shuriken-gif-5734962413040643179

[unreal dove]

And yet I'm still right

No counter just get caught and killed lmfao

[fleet brook]

1 there's several counters one being lights most used specialty and having a team with ears/ eyes and using coms

2 as a person who played since beta without Winch claw that's the item btw playing melee heavy or just in general any non lmg heavy you just kinda got mega boned because everything can and will just outzone you

I'm guessing winch was added to address this (because it was a serious issue limiting heavy weapon diversity to just lmgs) if you went against good players you could say good bye to any close range heavy builds and stun gun was still really good pre season nerfs so even if you did close the gap slightly you got shot down

[unreal dove]

They could have solved thr problem any other way then giving us off brand roadhog

[fleet brook]

If a melee heavy gets you elusive dash (if you're light) or if you have insane reactions hook away

If you're medium you have the time to shoot back or you'll survive long enough for your team to help and winching another heavy is a bad idea because they can have there gun up before you

[fleet brook]

By giving heavy a gap closer? Because Early on that was and still is heavys main weakness

[fleet brook]

Also without getting into nerdy specific

Hog hook is insanely better

[unreal dove]

Literally anything and majority of the players I'm verging are literally pulling you out of the air and creaming

[fleet brook]

I'd say for embark this is actually less atrocious than what they usually do for solving a issue with a class

[unreal dove]

Ik hog is better but ow is complete trash now and it's the only comparison to be given. I'd assume the reason it's in the game is cause hog has it (inspiration)

[fleet brook]

Lights solution to losing to heavy was stun gun which is fine if you're on computer on console you can forget about turning and forget about moving if you're heavy

[unreal dove]

I agree on it being better solution than usual but still

[fleet brook]

I'm just saying be careful what you wish for with embark

Medium's gadgetry didn't feel impactful enough for some at beta and launch at that point everyone could do crazy stuff

So they added literal wall hacks

Glitch grenades existence annoys me (I understand it's place) it just feels like the Sombra of this game if that makes sense

[unreal dove]

Honestly if they actually try and fix the main problems of this game and properly take time to address them this game will be great. And possibly more players will play it. Also yes glitch grenades are cancer along with gas

[soft juniper]

Quick funny idea make a funny build mixing anything from any class together
example:
Class: Light
Special: Charge n Slam
Weapon: Riot Shield
(Try to have each thing be from a diffrent class)

[final terrace]

ribbit ribbit

[fleet brook]

Class:Heavy

Weapon: XP-54

Special: Heal beam

Heavy that has a laser high dps gun

[vale obsidian]

Class: Heavy

Weapon: Sword

Special: Dash

[slim iris]

Class: Medium

Weapon: Sledgehammer

Special: Dash

[hazy spear]

I'm saying that light is overdoing the glass cannon part, that's not a glass cannon anymore, that a glass atom bomb that annoys you until you die

[slim iris]

honestly just position better. My go-to strategy is dropping the station down multiple floors and then fortifying the floor I'm on. Well-placed mines can skew the fight in an unfair way, RPG is a cheat card and charge n slam is a great follow up. Even glitch stun and running is useless as long as you have good positioning. They'll be forced to enter your floor where you have the advantage, because light sucks in close quarter combat.

[polar trout]

Those who know 💀

[sacred cypress]

The heavy lmgs have been nerfed to the ground. Its literally the only automatic weapon in heavys arsenal. As season 3 came it felt more lime the game was pushing heavys to play melee and it just feels forced. There was no problem with the m60 or Lewis and top of that, it's been given ridiculous recoil. By the very least embark, the recoil can be reduced.

[slim iris]

so actually true heavy has 0 range weapons rn and the Lewis is just genuinely impossible to control it's harder than literally the M11

[vale obsidian]

do embark even listen to comunity feed back anymore? 💀

yeah sure CM is making a feed back list dozen of pages long but why isn't one of them in the game yet?

[calm turtle]

what weapon should i use for heavy?

I tried the ks-23 and it was miserable

[eager wasp]

MGL or flamethrower/Sledge

(I do also like the KS-23 tho so)

The rest I don’t think are any good except maybe SA is decent

[calm turtle]

how do I use the ks-23 though?

[eager wasp]

uhhhh well I mean you gotta have pretty good aim, don’t get too close and personal with people so that if you need to you can run (for lights tho I like to get close because then they panic and it’s easier to hit the shots point blank, be more defensive than offensive (it’s how I do it atleast cuz heavies take quite a bit of shots to kill)

[shell sonnet]

if all else fails, you can use ks-23 as incredible defensive weapon
make holes and spam the objective to prevent people from stealing

or make the area open to lift the objective with the gravity cube

[inland sentinel]

I think they should add some sort of trap (bear trap) for example which could stop a player in their tracks for a couple seconds and should deal 50+ damage

[shell sonnet]

it would be better in the aspect that you need to run into it first, instead of being useable at any time from range, so less bad for melee players
but we really dont need even more stuns in the game, people are already complaining enough about the 2 we have

[fleet brook]

Ice fishing will always be effective but I'd argue that medium is much better for it and they need to have enough sense not to consistently run in and die flank use grapple to get to the top flank you with a freind

This goes in general people need to stop walking into ice fishing areas

[fleet brook]

Longed range shotgun with minimal and extremely risky destruction capabilities

[slim iris]

Honestly that's why I think THE FINALS is balanced because there's always a strat to counter another

Ice fishing? Use demat and spam through the wall
Getting rushed? Use mines to surprise your enemies
Getting melee'd or dashed? Use glitch mines
Getting shield spammed? Use glitch
Getting shot through walls? Use goo

[near cairn]

I seriously cant deal with the snipers sitting on a perch and peppering the point on powershift. i don't get why people find it fun, and i don't get why its even a thing at all. it's ridiculously un-fun, especially compared to matches where snipers aren't present where it's the most fun game in my library

[keen island]

getting winched? just die man you aint escaping unless they fumble
getting gooed? just pray it breaks quick enough
sadly not everything has a good counter ;-;

[keen island]

haha as a sniper main the games ive played where me nor any other person in the lobby isnt playing sniper has been awesome. snipers do need a bigger punishment for camping in PS

[vale obsidian]

the roof camper are insufferable

it need damage fall off to give them a slap in the face

[fleet brook]

Elusive dash a good team

You cannot solo counter everything in a TEAM BASED SHOOTER

[slim iris]

Getting goo'd? RPG, Breach Charch, C4, Thermal Bore or Demat

Getting Winched yeah you're probably dead but honestly a lot of winch heavies suck just shoot them back

[fleet brook]

Also people forget pre winch heavy had 2 weapons his lmgs

Because shotgun is pointless and melee good luck catching anyone

That's a lie he had 3 lewis gun and his lmgs

Now his lmgs kinda suck for quick damage and this game isn't based on sustain damage and long fights

[slim iris]

LMG's are dead now

Honestly new heavy is better winch is a good fit it means you need better positioning to counteract a winch heavy rather than just
shooting...

[fleet brook]

I'm saying as a beta player they're no longer heavies best options at least if you're not in long fights

They aren't the KS-23 but they're alot worse than they use to be and they're recoil is annoying

[fleet brook]

People in this game tend not to like when the gadgetry in a gadgetry based shooter requires more counterplay than just shoot X problem

[slim iris]

Same people who use stun lmao

[fleet brook]

Yeah tbf humans are simple creatures and they'll take the path of Least resistance and just relying on gun skill is a massive crutch in this game but you don't really need strategy if you're just really good at gun fighting

[vale obsidian]

i would agree with you if the only counter play to hook isn't just don't get hit

i just realize

i don't like fighting hook but i like fighting rpg even tho their basically the same thing

i think it because i can see the heavy holding the rpg and it make the shot is predictable?

(unlike hook where it come out of nowhere)

[fleet brook]

There's more then just don't get hit

[vale obsidian]

prediction, reading character movement, yati yada

[fleet brook]

Also if you take away winch or mega Nerf it you're gonna need to retune range heavy to be better

[vale obsidian]

all i want is wine up time

im fine with it if i can atleast react

[fleet brook]

Elusive dash on light .No I don't wanna hear about but rpg wah weah wah it's on a 40 second CD and you revive in 20 and you aren't the only person in the lobby (not specifically talking to you just saying)

As a medium usually you can shoot em enough mid pull especially if your team is helping you

Heavy well just pulling another heavy who does that?

[vale obsidian]

i already say everything i want to say tbh

im fine with hook rn if it had a wine up time so i can react/dodge

i compare it to rpg which is basically the same thing as hook fundamentally but bettered design

thats all 🤷‍♂️

[fleet brook]

I mean nah

Winch was made as a gap closer because heavy had a large issue with it in previous seasons

RPG is (supposed to be ) a ranged destruction option for heavy

[vale obsidian]

a ranged destruction tool that every use as an opener in combat lol
sad

well thats the detail of it, you still die the same just in different ways

both practically make you one shot soooo

[shell sonnet]

what if winch needed to be held and pulling speed is nerfed? (while also removing its stun)
a ranged enemy can turn around and start shooting the heavy, so they take some damage before they are able to attack, making it riskier

[vale obsidian]

so i was thinking

you need to spin the hook first before you can throw it

Like a cowboy!

https://tenor.com/view/riding-horse-john-paul-gonzalez-ultimate-cowboy-showdown-lets-go-come-on-gif-21174606

[shell sonnet]

thing is, that changes nothing about what happens when you get winched
it just changes if you get winched in the first place

its better but not ideal

imo being able to sidestep/dodge shots can work, but its less impactful than the aim of the user

[vale obsidian]

i just want to fix the "came out of nowhere" part

[shell sonnet]

if it were thrown slower (like the actual travel time) then that would change though
and since it doesn't arc, it will still be just as useful for utility

[vale obsidian]

we don't want to mess with people musle memorie tho

[shell sonnet]

one thing i noticed once
i winched, missed my target, but then they walked into the chain and got winched when i pulled it back
is that intended?

[vale obsidian]

fcking linger hit box

i doubt thats ever intented

[shell sonnet]

you know, i really like some of the weird niche tech people have discovered
frag surving
the goo plane
prop surving
stuff like that

i wonder what could be some potential items that would expand on weird possibilities

[vale obsidian]

you see, the finals is coded in a really simple way

let me try to think of an example hold on

hook yes the hook

so the "grab" trigger are connected to the model itself and dosn't do any check other then "spawn when the hook model spawn" and "deleting when the hook model disappear"

thats it
it dosn't check if it hit a wall so it can disable the grap triger or anything like that

another one i can think of is jump pad

it only give you upward momentum, and all the side momentum are carry form your prier movement

thats why sliding into it give more distent then walking into it

[near cairn]

I think my biggest issue is the sheer rate of fire the thing has, it means that missing a shot has no punishment

There are many many occasions where if the sniper didn’t have such a high fire rate, the constant body shots wouldn’t have killed me at such infuriating moments

I think skill should be rewarded for sure, but with how it is currently, its just too easy to spam high damage shots halfway across the map

[vale obsidian]

ask google, i don't remember what exactly it mean xd

the hit box should've been disable when the hook hit a wall

[crimson merlin]

They remove the enhanced sights but not this stupid stun gun and winch claw... these two things are booty cheeks!

Especially the stungun sucks good luck trying to defend yourself turning at a snails pace

[fleet brook]

Funner fact the hook is determined by the throwers Internet

Which is good and bad in some cases

[restive plover]

Lewis is still pretty good. You just can't beam people as easily from over 30 meters.

Not the best approach for the problem, but does it nonetheless.

[modest pulsar]

we should bring nukes back

[versed crescent]

I agree

[modest pulsar]

idk why everyone wants to nerf everythign

the whole point of playing light is to die at any moment but do so much damage you can 3v1

[teal ginkgo]

Is sword still viable in ranked?

[reef vector]

not really

[tender grotto]

Sword is amazing

[soft juniper]

In my option the best thing to do is make a build that’s off meta but it counters the current meta

[keen island]

besides demat those options are horrible if you want to avoid damaging yourself a fair bit imo

[crimson merlin]

What about a booger mine and grenade that slimes you and acts like a stun BUT it's not as BS as you can still turn normally just you can't jump, sprint, or use dash. You can only walk and turn

Maybe a buff to turrets make them double barrel higher dps but longer recharge and giving us mini single barreled .22 bubble turrets that are weak af and slow fire rate more of a slight aid in a firefight

[civic salmon]

I think it'd be more interesting if they changed goo to be able to absorb toxic gas. Like if goo gets hit by gas it breaks from the rest of the goo and shrinks into a throwable object that explodes into shrapnel that puts a DoT on whoever it hits. I dunno, it just seems like there are way more uses for fire than gas. Another idea for a gadget would be like a bouncy ball you toss forward an everytime it hits ground it leaves speed boost pads that are consumed on use.

[topaz vault]

Please add mounted minigun for the Heavy and DMR Rifle for Medium

[vale obsidian]

idk man dash nerf feel like a nothing nerf to me, other then the far and few actional "oh! i thought i have dash but dosn't" moment i really don't feel it at all

i main dash alright

but dosn't grind the game as much as you do
i don't use sword

you just have to get used to the new timing imo

[copper pebble]

Yea I agree

[vale obsidian]

its only one sec after all

tbh you change my mind, im still on the middle ground tho, not agreeing nor disagreeing
i just see your view and acknowledge it 👍

🤷‍♂️

[violet cosmos]

yeah the dash cooldown makes no sense, it was already harder to use and punishing to fuck up, it didn't need a nerf at all

[white thistle]

ok bro

[radiant vapor]

pls delete the sniper.
the game would be so much better without this bs weapon. Everyone i ask hates this weapon (except sniper players).
they are just sitting behind a roof ledge with headglitch so you cant even shoot them. You cant hunt them down since they are the fastest class in the game. The weapon takes minimal skill being hitscan and regulary shooting at unaware targets with little to no counterfire. Having one as teammate is not good either since they cant contest the objective effectively since they are to far away. With so many cahsouts being in open field it can be completely impossible to get a cashout without killing the sniper on the other side of the map first.

pls delete this wepon :)

lol i never rage quit or emote nor do i play light 😂

[lilac terrace]

I’ve seen impressive rushing lights in bank out

[radiant vapor]

ideed i do..... to rpg snipers

many games have tried to balance sniper before and failed. The ultra high range onehit type rifle weapons are always hated.
i dont think there is a way to blalace this weapon, wich is why i want it removed. It is not overpowerd... just anoying, so any change that makes it hareder to use will also mean it gets a buff in some kind. There will never be a game that has a sniper that does not feel like getting cheesed.

that is a trade i would 1000000% agree with

oh it is annoying and the reason everyone uses it is to deal with lights since heavy loses a 1v1 against light in most scenarios if it was not for RPG

rpg is not a wepon tho ist a gadget with a realy long cooldown

any ideas on how to fix sniper?

thats called teamplay

[vale obsidian]

porb just damage fall off imo

i thought you guys were talking 1v1

[radiant vapor]

you cant comare the evectivness of a weapon by just introducing more of it and saying its strong

[radiant vapor]

oh and ya nerf winch (nice name)

[vale obsidian]

yep! nerf hook

[radiant vapor]

rpg is a one time burst every 27 second or so

lights can use glitch nade mediums can walk in their face and trade 140 dmg for 252 self dmg

i am that medium xD

as is stungun

i have played a few rounds of light so i do know how the gadges, wapons and abilitys feel like

xD

u think i am embark employee?

sniper would not be in the game then lol 😂

i am not

yes

IF
heavy weapons were viable at range again...this recoil is actuly cracy.

i uese rpg like a dmg supplement at range since heavy cant compete at anythin above 15 meters

true, ecpecialy when compared with the practically non existent recoil on xp54 and m11 playing lewis gun feels like playing lottery

maybe a different damaging gadget for heavy could freshen up the game. something more skill based with shorter cooldown and no aoe. not sure what that could be to.

it takes a single game to get a feel for those weapons tho

👍

[hoary sail]

what's light meta currently? i quit playing the game a while ago and now idk what's good

[grave furnace]

on your team? Go die 200 yards from your teammates and quit the lobby
on the opp team? Spawncamp until they ragequit

[twin basin]

Controversial opinion screw the sniper

Because it just encourages anti team play by sitting back and watching instead of helping push the point or take the point which is obviously really important in 90 percent of the game modes in the game

[fickle radish]

Don't understand why devs feel the urge to add snipers on every damn game

[twin basin]

It doesn't have a place in the finals right?

[dire prism]

Am I the only one who thinks the revolver should be able to two shot light

[twin basin]

No

[dire prism]

Like dude it’s so annoying when u can’t hit that last shot

[twin basin]

You can't 90% of the because they just go zoom with dodge

[zinc solstice]

Lol why does the glitch trap not even need line of sight to affect you? Why can I hide my glitch trap under rubble or goo and it still affects everyone in the vicinity? Feels like cheating.

I just slap it on the cashbox, put goo over it, and nobody can use gadgets in the area until they play hide and seek and find it. I’m shooting them the whole time btw

[crimson merlin]

W take! I agree!!!

[crimson merlin]

That's the point of the glitch trap as it's a trap not a mine

[vale obsidian]

a trap that can be less annoying imo

[vale obsidian]

It doesn't have a place in any game ever, the only exception i can think of is valo, cs, and tarkov

[crimson merlin]

It's not as op as y'all are complaining about

Look to winch claw and sledge or freaking stun gun... those are worse

The glitch trap helps counter that garbage in a fair way

[vale obsidian]

nah none of these is op imo, but they sure are annoying

[crimson merlin]

A stun gun that locks you in place you can't even turn isn't OP?

[vale obsidian]

the season 1 stun is op yeah

but the stun gun we have now is balance enough

you can shoot back pretty reliably imo

[crimson merlin]

Idk... I can't turn for shiz and the light out maneuvers me while stunned up

[vale obsidian]

you might need to up your sens then xD

[twin basin]

stun is fucky

[restive plover]

It doesn't affect your turning, if it ever did.

[vale obsidian]

this game need you to do 180 turn

[crimson merlin]

Idk about that I mean I can't turn for shite while stunned it's like my character is being tear gassed or stunned in cod

[vale obsidian]

maybe its the mussel memory you got form that game is what make you unable to turn around

[crimson merlin]

Perhaps

[vale obsidian]

maychances

[zinc solstice]

A trap that can affect you without you seeing it is wild. Can’t even shoot it while its zapping you if its hidden

[storm mason]

Why I can see all tipes of barrel and usable with thermal vision but NO MINES?!?

[restive plover]

Because thermal is kind of fucked and doesn't work properly.

[storm mason]

For me it’s awesome, it just feel bad I died literally while step on invisible mine im not saying it’s not glowing white it’s just missing on the screen…anyway it plays amazing for me. Best gadget for light in TA for sure if wasent for mines not showing

[vale obsidian]

and it dosn't even stuck to player

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

@restive plover someone got killed by light once too many time lmao

[restive plover]

I'm not the only one saying its overtuned. 1 shot from a dash lunge after a vanish bomb. right lol

[quaint lotus]

A roulette spinner gadget to give a random class exclusive gadget (that isn't your own class)
(Single use until death)

[zinc solstice]

Light with rpg 🤔

[quaint lotus]

Or difib (outside of Terminal Attack)

[civic cairn]

MGL32

[vale obsidian]

cl40

[golden ice]

c4 needs faster detotnation

[vale obsidian]

make it instent so i can pocket sand people again

[silk cargo]

i need a pocket sand gadget

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/king-of-the-hill-dale-gribble-pocket-sand-pocket-sand-gif-3699662

https://tenor.com/view/random-bullshit-go-moon-knight-random-random-bullshit-gif-25725102

[reef bear]

Can we get an m4 please that’s all I want

[last wharf]

Erm no use ak like a real commie

[vale obsidian]

it practically the same thing as akm but different model

i don't get why you want it

[last wharf]

It dose nothing

You just want a re skin

[restive plover]

Akm has enough cosmetics.

[vale obsidian]

real

[restive plover]

I hope more guns get reloads as cool as jackpot juggle.

[civic cairn]

Waiting for MGL32 Animations

[soft juniper]

Honestly with the damage nerfs it has gotten I don’t see why not make it instant again

I honestly miss using the Breach charge as my damaging throwable

[last wharf]

Real

[vale obsidian]

its also a good risk reward dymanic too

hate that they removed it

[violet cosmos]

its unfortunate, given it should be something heavy has since its close range AOE damage, and would be much less annoying than the RPG because you can't be sniped by it

[vale obsidian]

#BuffBalanceTeam 🙏

[last wharf]

No bring back beta ttk

Trust

[polar trout]

Make it a short range rifle, we don't have one of those. Like since it's a carbine and not a full rifle, it could function as the short range automatic the medium is missing

[unreal dove]

wind up is a pretty decent idea

[polar trout]

So it (m4) has a shorter barrel and smaller caliber(than the akm) but larger cartridge so it actually has a higher muzzle velocity and stated effective range. Also higher rof. So ig it could be balanced by making it less accurate, higher rof, with a good hip fire. Also less dmg. It would have less dps than the smgs of light (obv) but could still make a good close range option

[unreal dove]

like a honey badger or acr

[polar trout]

Sure ig

Honey badger is in 300 blk if I remember correctly so it should perform more like the akm actually but I'd assume the acr would be like the m4

Oh except 300 blk is bad at range due to a low load and thus muzzle velocity

[unreal dove]

yessir

what i was abt to say would be a cool weapon to see id honestly just like to fix all the games problems before they add any new weapons tbh

[polar trout]

Fr

Ngl buff the stuff they've already added, nobody uses anything from s2/3 aside from winch and sometimes thermal bore

[vale obsidian]

it should be weak at long range then, no bloom pls just falloff 🙏

[polar trout]

Ooh hear me out

[ripe granite]

hey is the m60 or lewis gun better for heavy?

[polar trout]

Make it a light weapon, give it a high damage per shot and good enough fire rate, making it one of if not the highest DPS weapon in the game

But make it have crazy recoil

Like craaaazy recoil. Also maybe some poor falloff and prolly a bad hip too

[polar trout]

M60 is easier and lewis is I think technically better but it's got crazy terrible recoil

[hardy dust]

Lewis is better, but the recoil takes a bit of getting used to

[vale obsidian]

a bit as in just a few game 👍

[hardy dust]

Going into the training range and getting used to the first (easier) half of the recoil is pretty useful too

[ripe granite]

tyty i had a feeling it was better than the m60 and be honest they both have really bad recoil

[hardy dust]

M60 recoil is only bad at the start, afterwards it basically has none

[ripe granite]

fuck you

[hardy dust]

:(

[ripe granite]

only joking but still yk what i mean

maybe i’m bad idk gun bad i blame gun

[hardy dust]

Its kinda useful to prefire with m60 when engaging someone so you get rid of the bad recoil and it has a ton of bullets so you dont rly waste ammo

[ripe granite]

yea i’ve been sitting on platform just prefiring everything, i don’t understand why people push into a stream of bullets when they hear the m60 i have 70 rounds and no i will not stop shooting

[crimson merlin]

What about a bizon or P90?

Ooooooo a galil!!! Or a bloody Negev or M249

As for rocket launchers a new wepaon instead of the rpg I was thinking the M202 Flash

Or the M72 LAW maybe even a Panzershrek or panzerfaust

[topaz mauve]

Where are my diamond sword mains, I'm trying to get more consistent against diamond players. Lowkey I feel like it comes more down to positioning. If anyone is out there 😅, let me know if that's the case

[twin basin]

give heavy a m82 barret thoughts?

[polar trout]

Law, 2 charges less powerful

[crimson merlin]

Yes

[crimson merlin]

Nah it's bad enough snipers do F all in power shift we don't need more! Instead give the heavy M249, Negev, RPK, RPD, or the Browning .50 or a BAR

[polar trout]

Give them a charge up railgun. Have to stop to fire it and long ass reload but it's strong asf. This game takes place in the future, give it something futuristic please. Especially since the last 2 seasons have been old, with retro and feudal Japan. Give heavy the railgun, med a laser beam rifle than deals more DMG the longer you hit the target or sum idk

[crimson merlin]

Idk... I prefer projectile based weaponry over beam weapons

[violet cosmos]

a beam projectile, that ricochets off the environment

[polar trout]

Cool, you're not everyone tho. (That's sounds rude asf it's not supposed to be sry)
Would be cool if it would heat up enemies over time, dealing more DMG the more you heat them up. Also yeah bouncing would be cool asl

Also I did say or sum, maybe like a mini missile launcher like the riptide or whatever it was called in Titanfall could be fire

[crimson merlin]

I get that I am npt everyone however do you really think people want this stuff? Because COD failed when they add it and other games tend to do bad especially because balancing would be a pain if it inflicts burn or bounces it will be hard to balance

I think a soundwave gun would work especially if it obscures vision like a glitch trap or stun gun and also blocks hearing and directional pings "as you are getting shot" to act more as a suppressing weapon

Because lasers suffer no damage drop off and such that's the downside

[polar trout]

Make a sonic cannon that shoots a big shot with high wall DMG and that pushes enemies and concusses

[crimson merlin]

That is a good improvement to my idea

[polar trout]

They do, atmospheric dispersion is a thing

Actually, unlike a bullet a laser would become non damaging at a certain point due to the laser dispersing too much

However it would be instant and have no drop, which is already like the rest of the guns in game

[covert ether]

why does wench go through walls this is bs

[crimson merlin]

Ah yes you make a solid point

[polar trout]

If it catches you before you get behind the wall it'll pull you still, hope they fix that

[crimson merlin]

Lol THAT DIRTY WENCH!!!

🤣, I love Middleville speak runneth thy pockets of thouh pantaloons

[polar trout]

Also consider cod being a more real game that has a lot more focus on aim and movement in a 2d plane, then consider that the finals is more like overwatch with high ttk and more of a meta game perspective needed to play well, I think a laser like weapon could do well simply due to the style of game and how it could be applied yk

And I really loved the laser in codaw but that's personal preference

[past thicket]

hate that one

[twin basin]

What should heavys long range be?

[crimson merlin]

Nothing heavy isn't made for long range

Heavy is a tank and is therefore up close and personal hands on likes to get dirty

Although!!! I do have some fun gadget ideas

Like barricades similar to the ones in R6S where only thermal bores, C4, and Breach Charges can punch through. As well as a portable Mortar! Or a Kamikaze Drone that you drive to people...

[polar trout]

The barricades we have? Am I missing something?

Like immune to all the other explosives and all other DMG types too?

[crimson merlin]

No to armor up walls

[polar trout]

OHhhhhh ok

Yeah the reinforcements. Would be cool ngl

Mortar would be fun. Always a balancing nightmare in bf but maybe here it would work better cuz it'd be such a commitment

[crimson merlin]

Exactly! And a Kamikaze drone with a long cooldown is good too

[polar trout]

When you type it says "...is typing [your name]" (but like actually your name, ion know how to get those characters) but for anyone else it says "x is typing" why is that

Also what even is your name is it a language or just some scawy characters

[crimson merlin]

Hebrew language of Israel and Jews worldwide unless you speak yiddish

[woeful agate]

damn xp54 hits at long range

its kinda absurd how much more effective it is compared to a lot of medium weapons

[polar trout]

Thought it looked hebrew but I thought it looked off yk

[crimson merlin]

Understandable

[polar trout]

You Jewish? Do you get shit for it?

Fucking annoying how racism is now legal due to the alleged actions of a nation across the world. Should prolly keep political talk out of this server tho so nvm

[spark igloo]

tier lists for all 3 classes

[lament mountain]

this for the baseball charm. that's a typo.

[woeful agate]

dont run into a lot of c4 users, is it really that good? i know it was busted when nukes were meta but with the stack reduction i don't really think they are s tier

[spark igloo]

remote steal stopping, steal deterrent, and site setup is valuable. Cashout meta still has 1 heavy using c4

[woeful agate]

i guess all the heavys i soloq into are just not that smart then lol

[spark igloo]

its more of a team gadget

[polar trout]

My weapon, gadget and spec ideas, starting with
Light
Specs:
stim- works like TF2 stim pilot, give a speed boost and heal back to full, plus Regen for a sec like hd2 stims. OSPUZE skin where you drink it.
Jump pack- keeping up the TF2 theme, this spec has a fuel bar. You can double jump, using some fuel, or press the key to toggle the ability to wallrun on/off, which uses fuel as you run.
Weapons:
TKs- DMG lowered, change primary to an attack combo where you do 2 normal attacks and then a heavy attack with a long cooldown after the heavy attack or after you stop firing.
93R- PLEASE BUFF TS PLEAAAAAAASE
Honey badger- a weapon with high (almost AR) level DMG, and a fire rate higher than the ars but lower than the smgs. This affords it the highest DPS or close to it. However, it has terrible recoil, bad falloff, and only like 20 rounds. Epitome of amazing hard stats, terrible soft stats.
Gyrojet pistol- a pistol firing small rockets that get faster as they fly. This allows them to deal more damage the farther they go. They are projectiles, and it has a relatively low fire rate, but high DMG up to maybe 70 at max range to compensate.
Gadgets:
Acid dart- a small gun that shoots a dart, the dart deals a small amount of DPS and stops all healing from being received.

Medium
Spec:
Recon senses- reworked to be a single ping that shows to the whole team. I don't like medium being the support class but also being the only one that can't scout.
Weapons:
Some sort of normal shotgun with actual spread unlike the 1887
Laser rifle- shoots a solid, bouncing beam with tick damage that increases on a single target the longer you shoot it. The beam has falloff, and it gets larger as it loses damage. At some point, it completely disappears.
Gyrojet carbine- as pistol, but with more bullets and lower DMG. Probably also a worse starting DMG but a better DMG multiplier at long range.
Famas- gimme a scope and maybe some better ranged DMG
FCAR- undo that stupid ass change, go back to more DMG less bullets
Gadgets:
Hacking dart- can hit allies, enemies and can shoot yourself. Gives the recipient a buff to all stats, but after like 10 seconds the buffs wear off and are replaced with a nerf to all stats that's more extreme than the buffs.
Acid grenade- as dart, but lasts less time and in an aoe

Heavy
Spec:
M134- go look at the copypasta the guy has in the feedback channel, it's a good idea that I like.
Mortar/turret- set up a mortar, interact with it to use it. Arcing shots, high DMG, and destruction. Alternatively, just make an hmg turret with high DMG and destruction but no aoe. I want a turret pwease.
Sonic ram- a room that fires a massive sonic blast on use. Deals minimal DMG, but knocks back enemies and destroys massive portions of walls. If an enemy is knocked into a wall, extra DMG is dealt. It also concusses enemies, slowing and distorting the screen.
Weapons:
Micro missile launcher- shoots missiles that explode with a low rof but high DMG, no falloff, like 30-40 round mag, high destruction. Projectile based.
Particle cannon- a charge up shotgun. Each pellet deals small dmg, like 5 or so, and is fired in a massively inaccurate spread, but there's like 100 of them. Requires a half second charge up or so, and only has one shot before reload.
Spear- allow cancelling of secondary fire/make it a spear throw.
Gadgets:
C4- increase the number you can have out at once, but not stack size. Also reduce arming time a bit.
Beacon- I want an airstrike or orbital railgun beacon, it would cause a solid vertical line of destruction with heavy DMG, but a warning for people in the aoe.
Pyro drone- a throwable that looks like a lil airplane, after being thrown it homes towards an enemy. It goes forward quickly, and doesn't really change direction beyond like 30 degrees or so. Has a smaller AOE but has hit DMG to differentiate from pyro nade.
Rpg- reduce AOE DMG, give it on hit DMG. So if you hit it, it can one shot or do massive DMG, but if you don't it only deals like 30-40 dmg. Should be for destruction, not DMG.

[polar trout]

Forgot to mention, medium should get an SSR, so a long range rifle (support sniper rifle) with lower DMG than the current sniper, but is semi auto. Also has a scope

[crimson merlin]

A little bit but it doesn't bother me I am a thick skinned man who doesn't crumble too easily lol

[crimson merlin]

I really don't want more snipers... it's not needed. It's bad enough when I die I have a team of 3 camping back doing nothing while me and one other are the only ones trying to take the point

More snipers would only encourage more camping and less teamwork

[polar trout]

Not quite a sniper, more like a dmr yk

[crimson merlin]

Then don't give it a scope let it be at maximum an acog scope aka ×4

Because seriously snipers even now are a bane to my life as they fill me with such a deep seated hatred for myself I have to lock the pill cabinet and knife drawer lest I do something to myself...

[polar trout]

An acog what? Could also be a holo with magnifier

[polar trout]

But nah that's real fuck snipers

[crimson merlin]

Acog scope but it's technically ×4 in magnification

I was hoping no ×8 or ×12 scopes that would be BS

It would be like why not give the heavy a .50 HMG with a thermal sight lol

I will say the quad tube shotgun needs to be removed and reworked that thing SUCKS especially when the enemy is close to death OH I GOTTA RECHAMBER!!!

Brb lemme get what would be better in it's place

USAS-12 a full auto Korean Shotgun

Or

The Saiga-12

But this thing... this thing is an absolute piece of hot steaming booty chocolate!

[crimson merlin]

F this thing! The biggest piece of shite as it manages to get you killed every 4 rounds... you better hit them all!!!

[crimson merlin]

This though would be preferable as a replacement

[mint hemlock]

justice for the 93r

[mint hemlock]

now THAT is a list

[shrewd pecan]

Medium idea: a projectile like a knife that teleports you where it lands (1 use) ou the gravity shuriken like in titanfall 2

[mint hemlock]

i feel like that wouldnt mesh with the medium role as well as possibly light, althoug i do like your idea

[shrewd pecan]

Yeah thats what I thought but the medium lacks interesting gadgets but you ´re right

At least the gravity star for the medium?

[mint hemlock]

the medium does need more interesting gadgets, ive been thinking maybe they could use some kind of unique damage based gadget

[mint hemlock]

do those pull in opponents, the name makes me assume so

[shrewd pecan]

Yeah bc the heavy has a rocket launcher and the light the thermal bore so the medium could have something in this rnage too

[mint hemlock]

a gravity star type thing would be interesting if: it didnt deal damage but rather allowed for teammates (especially heavies) to hit the now clustered opponents, not that it dealing damage would be bad it just might reduce its use for team purposes

of course this is me heavily focusing on mediums role as a support, which is not the only purpose of it

[haughty grail]

Buff the sa1216

[cunning swan]

username checks out

[haughty grail]

Bet u can’t tell what my fav gun is

[cunning swan]

dual blades

[haughty grail]

Almost

[twin basin]

Hear me out let the ks-23 actually have sights

[vale obsidian]

zoom > sight IMO

[timid fog]

Add laser sight to the sledge hammer

[timber idol]

The CL-40 has sights on the actually model but we aren’t able to use them

[fair parcel]

سلام، في حد او مجموعة لاعبين علبلستيشن 5 للانضمام؟

[jagged ice]

pls collab with r6 and make akm black ice skin , it would sell

also if you decide to add custom melee anumations woulld also sell a lot , like imagine a knife animation , everybody would buy that shit

[twin basin]

I have a hard time gauging the drop with only zoom that's my issue

[twin basin]

Hear me out make medium choose between ads or turret

[rough carbon]

Greatsword skin for sledge

[vale obsidian]

And thx god it didn't 🙏

i rather tape a ruler on my screen then use that shit

[timber idol]

Maybe a waraxe instead, a sword doesn’t seem like something you would use to break down walls

[vale obsidian]

Better idea!

Pool noodle lmao

[timber idol]

Wait

This could be an addition to the Hawaii, beach idea

Spade dagger too

[vale obsidian]

we talking shovel or cards? xD

[timber idol]

Shovel haha

We already have cards skin for tk lmao

[rough carbon]

How about rolled up paperboy newspaper skins for throwing knives

Or snowballs come winter

[cerulean lodge]

sword needs a lightsaber skin

and we need a darth vader

and for claw we need like a force choke skin/animation

[vale obsidian]

give me da whole rainbow

would it be copy right tho?

[cerulean lodge]

yeah it would

but you know, maybe a we get a colab one day

[rough carbon]

Just call it something else like a laserstick

Roman candle firework skin for the Cl-40

[vale obsidian]

@shell sonnet i think there's a stat tracker for it

3rd party soft ware ofc

[unborn quartz]

Knives

[crimson merlin]

Nah let's replace it with one of the two options I offered

It's dog water with It's stupid rechamber every 4 rounds...

USAS-12 would be MUCH BETTER

[vale obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/vickers-gun-heavy-machine-gun-world-war-one-minute-of-mae-belt-fed-gif-3714987258919216300

[lost terrace]

Riot shield

Just reminding youy that it exists and is littered with bugs

👍 ok

[timber idol]

I love riot shield

[boreal laurel]

Same

[rough carbon]

You should be able to ride your shield like a boogie board when sliding

[timber idol]

Omg yes

[remote swan]

it’s the best medium weapon