💣┇weapons-gadgets

[final lotus]

I don't think the core balance should be around randomised jank, I would much prefer there was some consistency to it, the dagger is already kept in check by awareness, the loudness, duration, and visibility of cloak, enemies will not know the difference if it was sped up, the 200ms charge time only serves to actually reward you for being behind and netting backstabs that should have been backstabs. Sacrificing all your range as a light is massive, especially in ranked, your playstyle becomes easier to read to.

[sand monolith]

Maybe honestly but I don’t think it should get any number buffs until it has been fixed and given the QoL of holding charge. One of the main reasons it isn’t used is because it literally just doesn’t work and there’s still people destroying lobbies with it. So I think it would be best to see how strong it is when it works consistently before buffing. I also think .2s might be way too short and it should probably be .5s if it does get buffed

[torn adder]

The neon skins are amazing. I finally biught them and I love it! Especially for the lever action for the medium

[final lotus]

Regardless, the numbers are debatable, but most certainly it should be sped up, you can destroy a lobby if any enemy is bad, I don't think that is in any way an excuse to keep a bad weapon from being buffed.

[sand monolith]

There’s some people who destroy diamond lobbies with it

Someone in top 500 is a dagger onetrick and uses it every game

[final lotus]

They use dash with it, these buffs other than the heavy one don't really affect dash, it's mainly with grapple and cloak the difference will be felt.

[sand monolith]

I honestly don’t think the weapon is terrible. It can kill faster than a lot of light weapons

[sand monolith]

.2s charge time will absolutely affect dash knife. You currently have to sit there strafing infront of the enemy for .7s before dashing to 1 tap them

.2s before an instant kill would be insane for dash knife

I don’t really think every weapon needs to be good with every special. Sniper will probably only ever be good with grapple and there isn’t really a way to change that

[final lotus]

Very well then, I would like to say that it still isn't easy to dash dagger, or use the dagger in any capacity, I soloQ to D3 with it and I mained cloak with it.

[sand monolith]

Yeah it’s not easy at all but I kinda like that in a way. It’s a big flex weapon

It’s also kind of a natural thing that happens when you literally bring a knife to a gun fight. If it was ever made to be as easy as the other weapons it would have to be extremely strong and frustrating to play against

[final lotus]

We all unanimously agree that .7 needs to be reduced, the challenge with dagger at least with cloak and grapple is getting behind someone, lots of stabs have be robbed from me simply because .7 is way too long and even when I begin my stab, they turn around in time.

[sand monolith]

maybe it shouldn’t slow you down when you charge

[final lotus]

Holding the backstab charge under cloak should 100% be brought back, at least then there's a bit for more room to do more.

[sand monolith]

That too

[final lotus]

Okay so I will change it to .4 as a middle ground and we can move on

[sand monolith]

Ok so honestly

[final lotus]

I'll add the sprint while charge too

[sand monolith]

For the Double barrel idek. It’s honestly a really good weapon against everything that isn’t heavy and I don’t mind that. When I use it I just ask my teammates to focus down the heavys

But I could see a buff to 320 max damage so if you hit everything perfectly on heavy then you can kill them with a melee

Idk the numbers for the weapon so idk what 11 damage would do

[final lotus]

It would deal with all pellets connecting 165

[sand monolith]

A rework to the amount of pellets so it can equal 320 would be perfect I think. And you it can have the same spread gimmick that the model has where there’s a group of pellets in the middle for chip damage from distance

[final lotus]

My issue with dB is that when you meat shot close range you either get it or it does 10 damage, idk what happened but after the nerf the pellet spread feels shit.

[sand monolith]

Is that a bug?

[final lotus]

I would think it would work well if you can 2tap then melee a heavy, having a tighter pellet spread would make it more consistent to pull of with good center mass shots.

[sand monolith]

True but not by much. Considering it can 1 tap lights

[final lotus]

Yep

[sand monolith]

OK so riot shield

[final lotus]

Yes

[sand monolith]

I’m just gonna say it, I would leave the game if I got glitched by a riot shield

[final lotus]

Why so

[sand monolith]

Tbh the weapon does need a buff but I don’t think it needs any buffs to its offensive power. Its purpose is to protect you while you’re giving support to your team but it’s kind of mid at doing that. It could honestly get an ability when you left click while shielding that propels you backwards

Getting glitched by it would be extremely annoying to play against

[final lotus]

Charge and Slam absolutely sucks to play against using a shield, the moment you try to attack the heavy, he will just insta kill you with 2 hits. Dash players can escape effortlessly making them nigh impossible to deal with, same with grapple.

[sand monolith]

The shield should block charge and slam and also charge and slam should take .2s longer to start up

[final lotus]

Glitch serves to support the team more, blocking is easily counter by shooting their feet or shoulder too. I don't think DPS should be buffed, but landing swings at a minimum should be more consistent

It's also good for a shielder charge at the mesh shield heavy and focus on him so the mediums don't have a shields to play around, the duration could be tweaked but idk, riot shield again lacks any team utility.

[sand monolith]

I think if it got the ability to charge backwards it would fix a lot of the issues tbh. its primary use would be to get away from people so you can survive but you could still turn your back to the person to boost at them which offers risk reward if you do want to chase someone

[final lotus]

I don't object to the idea

Move on?

[sand monolith]

ok flamethrower i wouldnt mind

my idea for a flamethrower alt fire was poruing gasoline on the ground that you could light a trail of

to fit in line with heavy's defensive playstyle. it would give another way to prepare a cashout for people pushing it

but both would be cool

[final lotus]

I had that idea too, though I kinda wish flamethrower had a burst damage option with some nice skill expression, either way both ideas work nicely

[sand monolith]

the mgl idea would be funny and i wouldnt mind

my idea for the mgl was to replace the RPG as a gadget because it's playstyle is so committal that no one is really ever gonna do super well with it

[final lotus]

If it was a gadget I'd make it the bounced projectiles home towards to the laser pointer instead

[sand monolith]

honestly yeah both would work

[final lotus]

Flashbang

[sand monolith]

i simply do not want flashbang to be good

well, its honestly not even bad

[final lotus]

Any points you object to?

[final lotus]

Imo, flash is ass

[sand monolith]

the deafen stuff could be fine but removing friendly fire would make it insane

[final lotus]

So just allow it to friendly fire then?

[sand monolith]

yea

[final lotus]

Done, Glitch Trap now

[sand monolith]

uhhhh id like to see it on heavy but not light

glitch trap is actually great if you can remote detonate it

[final lotus]

Why not light?

[sand monolith]

mines dont really fit the light playstyle and you should be sacrificing defense capability when you pick light

[final lotus]

Alright, that seems fair, heavy is a defensive class so him having the glitch trap makes sense.

[sand monolith]

medium should keep it too like you said cause its also support/utility

[final lotus]

Yes just lights can't use it now

[sand monolith]

but other than that i think its fine. being able to remote detonate it with C4 only using 1 class would make it good

[final lotus]

May I ask, why remote detonate it?

[sand monolith]

to drop a cashout, blow up dome shields, and glitch everyone on point at the same time with one button press

putting a glitch mine and a C4 on cashout next to each other is amazing

[final lotus]

Yeah

[sand monolith]

and usually people just wont step on it

[final lotus]

I would think it would trigger before you'd C4 if they're already on point.

[sand monolith]

ive never seen someone step on it idk why

people step on all my other mines just not that one

[final lotus]

That's why I increased the trigger radius from 1.5m to 3m because you can't even use it as a trap.

[sand monolith]

3m would be cool maybe a bit much though

[final lotus]

Enough to put above a door and glitch, sound alike a lot but just gives greater freedom when making it as a trap, and remember, it's a 5 second glitch so naturally it should have that flexibility

[sand monolith]

thats true tbh if you need to act on it afterwards

[final lotus]

Move on?

[sand monolith]

ok motion sensor everything but not on light for the reason as glitch trap

[final lotus]

Light seems to be the intel guy, so imo, it should stay, I also used motion sensor a lot back when it was on light

I don't see the harm for light to have it, another method for him to support the team in a defensive or offensive way depending on how he uses them

[sand monolith]

idk i see sonar nades as the offensive counterpart to motion sensor which is why its on light and sensor is on heavy

[final lotus]

I don't see the harm personally, I miss my motion sensors tbh

Both should be allowed to have them

[sand monolith]

i dont think ill agree on this but its kinda pointless to argue it wouldnt be a huge issue

[final lotus]

I agree

[sand monolith]

smoke grenade would be cool except for the hiding from detection

[final lotus]

I will remove it for light with the motion sensor

[sand monolith]

omg awesome

also nerf fcar and lh1

[final lotus]

You don't like the smoke detection counterplay?

[sand monolith]

i thought it should do the same for a while and then i thought about how obnoxious it would be for the guy using the scan

to throw a sonar somewhere and think its clear and to no fault of your own, not know they were there

[final lotus]

Seems like you'd be over reliant on your detection

[sand monolith]

i guess but why waste a gadget slot on something that isnt reliable and can be easily countered by a map prop

[final lotus]

Not to mention you'd have to preemptively know he was going to throw a sonar

[sand monolith]

sonar nades already arent really used

i mean thats true but i also think that just means it would never happen intentionally

[final lotus]

I don't see it as an issue, just a nice passive buff that allows lights to catch a breather

[sand monolith]

i think you should just be able to shoot sonar nades out tbh

[final lotus]

Shall we move on?

[sand monolith]

ya

[final lotus]

Nvm, that's all

[sand monolith]

nerf fcar and lh1 and lewis gun rate of fire

[final lotus]

I don't have enough text to include that , but I agree

[sand monolith]

ok awesome

[final lotus]

You can deleto your mean reply now

[sand monolith]

my awesome and cool reply

[final lotus]

Thanks for taking the time to discuss with me

[sand monolith]

wait copy your new one and post it again

also np

[final lotus]

I never got to play CB2, how did stun fun work?

[sand monolith]

you couldnt shoot while stunned but the stun would end immediately if you took any damage

it lasted a bit too long and the cooldown was too short, but the idea was great

[final lotus]

Sounds like it was great for escapes

[sand monolith]

yeah it wasnt a free kill

[final lotus]

Free escape

[sand monolith]

yeah which is a lot less frustrating to play against

[final lotus]

Still had the slowdown?

[sand monolith]

yeah

i think if you could quick melee a teammate to get them out of stun, it would be perfect

[final lotus]

I could see snipers being really annoying with it, but that's it, it didn't have the turn reduction right?

[sand monolith]

it did which should also be gone. for obvious dagger related reasons

[final lotus]

Yeah

I would much prefer that, it would combo well with the dagger as escaping after a stab or failing a stab can be quite tricky

[sand monolith]

it was also great for turning a 2v1 into a temporary 1v1

[final lotus]

Yesss

[sand monolith]

https://medal.tv/games/the-finals/clips/1ezuo22UUvdErN CB2 clip of me doing that

[final lotus]

That's awesome

Seeing the game how it was back then compared to now depresses me

[sand monolith]

theres definitely been some improvements

like nukes gone, rpg not doing 180 damage

[final lotus]

The sandbox as a whole feels a lot more streamlined and less wacky

[sand monolith]

i think thats due to people just knowing how the game works now

[final lotus]

I loved the powerful nature of stuff

The risk playing light of being one shot instantly, but being able to output massive damage made up for it

[sand monolith]

yeah but it wasnt fun to be on the receiving end for either

[final lotus]

Now it kinda just feels less of what everything used to be

I suppose, balance is ever changing

[sand monolith]

my issue with everything being strong is that it means teamplay is less important

[final lotus]

Teammplay and Outplay should still be significant

[obsidian nexus]

omegacringe

[sand monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/you-sink-into-my-clothes-wolf-edit-alpha-wolf-edit-wolf-edit-meme-tiktok-wolf-edit-gif-11996719976311640495

[reef sage]

Mp5 with irons? That's classy.

[mellow lodge]

i want mp5 with irons

[sand monolith]

it was so nice

[restive plover]

Iron sights my beloved.

[fleet brook]

Longer ttks allow for more tactical gun fighting and not whomever shot first although I think this game is finding a decent time for average ttk I think it was risky making an entire class themed around being a glasss cannon

Either lights have A very short ttk to balance the health meaning no one gets to have a dynamic gunfights and they can 1v2 or the class is shit

But you can't change the class identity of light at this point so it's a lose lose

[viscid orchid]

Wow, old stungun looks nasty

[fleet brook]

As someone who played in the CB it in fact was

Although Alot of things were heavy RPG one shot

Defib used to be better

People actually ran bounce pads

Arena destruction was alot more because heavy had 2 C4s

[viscid orchid]

I started playing in season one, before some of the nuke reworks and taking RPG to 140. I'd never heard of this game till then (come on, PR department)

[fleet brook]

Alot more people ran charge

The meta was out there but people weren't meta slaving every game

Altho maybe I'm looking through rose tinted glasses because they're was definitely a lot of bs

[viscid orchid]

I love charge. I started using mesh shield practically out of obligation, but the smaller HP pool now really just cemented in me that I should go back to my unga roots and start surprising people with a free flamethrower party

[fleet brook]

The game looked alot more unique because alot of the comestic stuff was free

Which makes me sad because now it's very hard to get any significant cosmetics unless you pay

[verbal apex]

I've never been a fan of mesh shield no matter how strong its been. Goo gun is just too much fun, and charging through any wall I don't like is great too

[viscid orchid]

Man, it still looks great. I love dressing up my dolls and every day I'm confined to six loadouts is a day I feel like I'm suffocating

[fleet brook]

The cosmetics aren't bad I'm just sad because there used to be so many free cosmetics

That actually changed something about your character

[viscid orchid]

I still feel like I'm supposed to run mesh on power shift, but I can't even in any other mode. I play solo 90% of the time anyway so I have to hope rando's want to stand behind it some time

[viscid orchid]

Were these one's removed after the betas? I've been seeing some cosmetics posted from that era, people waiting on getting a white button up shirt again or some such. I wish I'd been around for those. Even for some of the xmas stuff I heard about.

[fleet brook]

Yup

They were all free as well but now they were gone I know it'd be bad for monetization but I wish beta players got to keep there cosmetics

The game looked so much better because everyone looked different

Now it's kinda samey for people who don't pay

[viscid orchid]

That's true. I see a lot of film grain cowboys and power shift tactical vests, but otherwise just a lot of black tee's and bucket hats.

Steal the spotlight, not power shift. Bleh

I really loved the jump pad. I need to make room for it again but since getting zipline I've been pretty hooked, no pun intended.

[sly estuary]

they should let u pay multibucks for more slots

[viscid orchid]

Would.

[sly estuary]

i mean

it doesnt take up that much storage esp compared to all the shaders and stuff

[fleet brook]

I do wonder why they just took your cosmetics away after the beta

That did turn me off for a little bit before returning

[midnight creek]

One of my friend told me that some people kept their skins from beta

[fleet brook]

I lost all mine

[icy pulsar]

Just an Idea/ concept for the 93R Burst Pistol.
“Flux Raider“ Skin for the 93R (doesn’t affect the guns behavior, just appearance purposes Only 👍)
That would be really Cool tbh, I’d definitely buy that if that would be available in shop 🔥🔥💪🏼

• a Recon Chest-Rig from InGame sponsors, something like that.. I’d love to see something like that 👌👌

[verbal apex]

I need this chat to be more active so I can rip weapon and gadget tips off you pros

[supple oracle]

who the hell is pro in here

[icy pulsar]

MP5, dashing, flashbangs, zip gun and thermal view? 👍👍

[obsidian nexus]

im so over the fcar. please make other guns viable

[supple oracle]

Healing stim gadget has to be the most unoriginal and half-assed idea for light

[verbal apex]

Never been much a fan of FCAR. Seems boring to me personally.

I like getting in peoples faces with Model 1887

[wind folio]

imagine pyro grenade as a oil lamp

[obsidian nexus]

lmao thats sick

with the goofy skins this game does. theres so much possibility for awesome skins

[wind folio]

but first, big spoon

[arctic fog]

I need more wood skins for guns

Like a shotgun that fires splinters

[wind folio]

or needles

[verbal apex]

What about one that fires needles, spiders, and clowns, to induce 3 types of fear in players at once

[chrome python]

Also a normal Molotov skin would be cool

[fleet brook]

Have it be a can of ospuz

[chrome python]

It’s bound to happen eventually but imagine an ospuze beer bottle

[fleet brook]

Same idea ig

[chrome python]

Either/or the can wouldn’t make sense unless it was a glass can

Could be like a Mexican glass coke style ospuze maybe

Their skin game is amazing they probably have some cool skins in the oven the football grenade is so cool I wish I could buy it separate from the set

That would be kinda cool if you could buy some of the gadget skins that are in bundles separately maybe for like 500 multibucks

[remote sable]

game needs a meta shake up. it's balanced, and there's lots of active counterplay, but jesus christ the longer this meta exists the more frustrating it becomes

it's been established, it's been developed, and it's growing less and less fun in both a casual and a competitive stance at the exact same time

[sick bane]

HEALING BEAM BUG IS SO ANNOYING

• Happens to me in like 1/5th of my games where i just cannot heal...
• been happening since Season 1
• can click the healing beam but cannot heal anyone

[static lodge]

People have been playing the exact same way ever since release, its just getting boring. Every type of off-meta picks just make your teammates mad or gets demolished by the current meta

[remote sable]

the meta itself has changed but it's been reduced to what was still strong during the old meta
all classes are completely powered by cheese and light's getting actually correct adjustments while medium and heavy are allowed to completely exist scott free of changes because there's no communal outcry of them

and again, even if all three classes are balanced right now, jesus is it so frustrating at this point
getting tazed is never fun
watching an entire medium stack heal chain each other is always painful
not being able to pick off a heavy because of their immediate 750 health mesh shield blows so much

i get it, you can counter everything with better teamplay, but it's always an immediate buzzkill

at this point the game's less about counterplay and more endurance for the meta until its frustrations creep up to you and make you upset

[static lodge]

man I really hope they are cooking up something crazy, each time I play the game it seems to be more stale than the last
I miss the crazyness that was the open betas, were guns were weak, shields were crazy and explosions were insane

100% healing defibs was less of a problem when a dagger could easily get rid of a heavy, crazy damage RPGs were fine cus you would just run to your healer that healed so much in a second

The guns matter more than the gadgets now which I think is kinda sad

I want them to to a season OG like fortnite lol

[rugged prawn]

Everyone saying that the m60 is better than the Lewis while me not being able to get a single kill with the m60 but 20 with then Lewis💀

[sullen tree]

well crazy damage RPGs were bad cause they'd instakill light TBH.

[static lodge]

who da hell says m60 is better than lewis idk what they are telling you guys over in heavy chat, lewis is way better than m60

[static lodge]

Honestly, I'd take instakill rockets back cus you could counter them by being cloaked and stunning them, or backstabbing them (which was easy) or if you did get killed you could quickly get back up cus of defibs

[sullen tree]

yea, OB dagger should come back

[static lodge]

There was a lot more cheesy kills but fast defibs made it so you could recover from them quickly
triple defib teams were strong for sure, but that didnt matter cus they wouldnt get access to stuff like the RPG/nukes which could destroy those teams

[static lodge]

oh Im talking about CB1 dagger, were there was no right click, it would just instantly kill the enemy if you slashed their back

[sullen tree]

ah, yea, that seems like it'd be funny

I wouldn't want it in the current game, but seems fun

oh wait, THAT'S why the dagger stab has a slash hitbox (at least I think so)

[static lodge]

could actually very well be

[sullen tree]

I'll probably go test in the shooting range in a little bit

but yea, if that's right

it would explain a lot of the bullshit sidestabs I get (also my own lack of skill, lol)

[final lotus]

I'm convinced the backstab hitbox is the dummies backstab hitbox, and not the player hitbox.

[rugged prawn]

Fr

[ripe vigil]

The hit box is very buggy do to poor servers so hit reg causes the dagger to be incredibly inconsistent

[supple oracle]

i wish the dagger had just sligthly better basic attack damage instead of relying only on backstabs for kills

[arctic fog]

Backstab hotbox jank as hell

[ornate furnace]

its the whole point of the dagger though, thats like its gimmick, they want you to go for backstabs

if you dont wanna go for backstabs just go sword if you enjoy swiping at peoples faces instead

[flint stone]

dagger feels so bad with the TTK some of the classes have

[supple oracle]

dagger does not need its backstabs be the only thing it has going for...

[sullen tree]

they could probably fix this by just reverting the damn thing to open beta

but they won't for some reason

[sand monolith]

That is the point of the weapon? Otherwise just use sword

[winged galleon]

Why do I see so many people complain about the rate at which you get vrs

[sand monolith]

Literally no idea

It takes like a month or two to unlock everything in a cod game and like a week max in finals

[winged galleon]

I think people just mad they don’t have every gun by the second game, I mainly just saw reviewers argue this tho

[viscid orchid]

I've played a whole lot of free to plays in my day, and boy let me tell you how unlocking every piece of gear in The Finals did not take very long at all.

[winged galleon]

I forget finals is f2p sometimes and also that I spent money on it

[hexed relic]

I wish you could customize your own gun to have a scope if you really need one on a gun that you like

[dreamy hedge]

BUFF THE MGL32

[chilly solstice]

Nah buff the damn cloaking device

[tight spindle]

Heck no

[arctic fog]

Cloaking was fine as it was

Although the stun gun's stun duration could use a nerf

[chilly solstice]

Yeah

[arctic fog]

I use light all the time and in all my good matches, I never use stun.

So I don't really mind if it gets nerfed

[mellow lodge]

stuns use it to stop someone running away or aftder you and point defense

[arctic fog]

Ik I just don't really use it

[mellow lodge]

yeah i'm just saying it was annoying but not op

[sly geyser]

hopefully bro doesn't do this in ranked

[arctic fog]

I don't do ranked I doubt I'm good enough

Unless I played with friends bc that makes things easier

Cloak def can't get nerfed tho bc it's basically essential to most light builds, whether it's cloak or vanish bomb.

[sly geyser]

Cloaked is not essential

It's been bad anyways since people can pretty much see you when your moving

If you really want invis just use vanish bomb, it's not worth having a shit invis just to not have mobility

[sly geyser]

Direct hit damage would actually make ot viable

[restive plover]

Proposed Feature: Equipment-Based Passives for Light Builds

The Core Idea: Players gain a unique passive ability when they equip a full set of gear within the "light build" classification. This incentivizes build experimentation and adds strategic depth to character customization.

Example: Aura of Swiftness

• Equipment Requirements: evasive dash and goo granades
• Passive Bonus: Grants the wearer and nearby allies a small movement speed buff.
  Why It Works
• Synergizes with Light Build Concept: A focus on speed and agility fits thematically with the core idea of a "light build."

[arctic fog]

Data reshaper needs at least 2 charges

[ornate furnace]

yeah Idek why it has one charge

[arctic fog]

I mean the range buff was great but it's still not good enough to make it's way into any builds

[ornate furnace]

idk what it is with embark and their weird like, imagination with ITEMS, who puts turrets, mines and normal placables in a single area together, you have to pick and choose what to data reshape

[fleet meadow]

make some more types of grenades, like one that can go long range but has higher area damage so you can throw it across the map

[sacred cypress]

Lewis gun gun recoil needs a buff

[mossy rune]

HEAVY HEALTH NERF PLEASEEEEEEEEEEE

[valid lily]

Heavies must be able to pass through ventilation when medium or light push them from behind

[restive plover]

Medium should be able to use a 1 shot headshot sniper

[lost charm]

Flamethrower needs a nerf

[paper basalt]

can we bring back another throwing knife skin in the shop?

[supple oracle]

You mean Explode on direct hit, or just small damage on a direct impact on the player without exploding?

Cause the first would completely remove the weakness of the weapon

[sage dove]

I'd love to see a semi-auto sniper without one shot headshots and a medium scope, like 2x to 4x

[maiden epoch]

They need a damage reduction if anything

[long fiber]

is there still an exploit for sa1216 that makes it cycle faster

or was i playing against a cheater

[split crescent]

i need more melee weapons

[sand monolith]

This would disincentivize build experimentation because you would miss out on passives for making your own build instead of one that the developers are pushing you towards

[knotty nimbus]

APS takes way too long to level up…

[obsidian nexus]

im praying to god everyday to see the day that not every medium plays fcar

[slate egret]

all i want is for the sh1900 to do 12 damage per pellet again. 10 is too low for how high risk the weapon is

[split crescent]

seen one with the police baton

[gilded trench]

Any technical aspect that I'm not aware why auto aim on melee get implemented?

[supple oracle]

Should also ask why we CAN'T turn it OFF

[static lodge]

cloaking was fine, the stun gun combined with cloak was the problem.
they gotta revert stun to how it was in CB2, lower the duration by 50% (from what it was in cb2) and increase the cooldown by 30-50% (from what it was in cb2). and rebuff the cloak

[woeful agate]

please let riot shield block/reduce melee damage. its kinda bs that i can block bullets but not a sword or sledgehammer

[static lodge]

in theory it can block both, its just janky asf so it doesnt work 80% of the time

[supple oracle]

don't forget Riot shield also blocks other riot shields melee, but not Light or Heavy melee's lol

[static lodge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1228816687051182090/1230963912837693490/epic.mp4?ex=66353b7b&is=6622c67b&hm=df537609ce50e51ed466efd4f750810dafaeba5dd6324fecae72eec0ad4af59c&
Here it blocks the sword, but using the active frames the sword still hits

[woeful agate]

yeah i feel like there's something bugged about it. it felt a lot more consistent before season 2, but now i keep lunging at people without ever hitting them and getting shot through what looks like the edge of the shield

[woeful agate]

this is exactly what i feel like is happening, especially with sledgehammer

[static lodge]

just another case of melee being jank, hopefully when they fix hitreg this problem will be magically fixed along with it #1213759290347753522

[woeful agate]

even when the hitreg is fixed riot shield just doesnt feel like i can block damage well enough to close distance, and med doesnt really have a ton of tools that make it easier to get close

[fleet brook]

Do you have any network delay?

[woeful agate]

not really, my wifi has been the same since launch but im only noticing these problems recently

[spare acorn]

has the stun gun already been nerfed or will it be nerfed at the upcoming patch?

[warped quiver]

nope not yet, with the upcoming patch

[verbal apex]

Same for invisibility becoming more visible

[wise briar]

Can we have Dragunov for M to counter against L snipers. Pweeeety pweeeeeaaaase *puppy eyes

[wise briar]

[near crest]

hi

[rose niche]

yo

[honest yoke]

Need more skins for M11 and animations

[amber cloak]

There have been a lot of riot shield and model players recentlt

[near crest]

we need more animation for every weapon except the ak

[wind folio]

m60 first

[verbal apex]

I hate using the fcar

[arctic fog]

I used to hate fcar bc I was terrible at aiming

And then I was like "wait this thing's actually pretty good"

But until then I fought against the fact fcar is powerful

[verbal apex]

I do well with it I just find it boring

[arctic fog]

You could use famas

It's pretty good

[verbal apex]

It is indeed

Also like the Model

[arctic fog]

Yeah I wish I was good at the model bc getting kills with it is so satisfying

[verbal apex]

fr

[arctic fog]

I've seen more of them lately

Dunno y tho

[verbal apex]

people getting tired of fcar mb

Or getting tired of heavy/light

[arctic fog]

There needs to be a real shakeup in the meta bc there are less and less people playing each week.

[wispy pulsar]

Famas is my fav gun

it is so much fun

[arctic fog]

It would definitely be meta if it had a better sight

That's part of what makes fcar so good

[thorn meadow]

heavy good "3

[ember wasp]

So I can’t be the only guy having the issue of light being next to unplayable

The only two guns that are remotely useful are the m11 and xp-54 everything else is really iffy on damage and most of the light specific gadgets go unused except for the breach charge

[final lotus]

shield should stop the remaining active frames, should protect against melee or have a damage resistance against it

[chilly turret]

Please for the love of fuck add a pistol for heavy

[restive plover]

Heavy with double Deagles

[empty condor]

AK, Frags, Pryo/Farts, Panels. on beam

[wind rose]

i like the ak

[empty condor]

headies from AK is curtains SON

[wind rose]

if u can hit shots with the ak its basically a laser

[mellow lodge]

this sentence describes any gun in existence

[wind rose]

ok!@

[supple oracle]

Model is the only satisfiyng shotgun to use...

Wished Light had a TAURUS JUDGE for a shotgun that AIN'T the double barrel

and heavy a meaty sound shotgun THAT AIN'T SLUGS

[wind rose]

why is there no good pump?

add good pump

[sand monolith]

Medium has a cool shotgun

It is pretty good too

[plush fox]

is it normal for sword attack to do 400 damage with one hit

[arctic fog]

Def not

Unless it was phantom slashing or whatever it's called

[verbal apex]

Tbh only the ones that are able to inflict headshot damage

[tranquil valley]

yesss, plssss. im a light player, this just makes it easier for us

[restive plover]

The max in "one" hit is 180 with lunge + quick melee.

[wise briar]

I mean its only fair that other classes also deserves a long range firearms as well right? Maybe a barrete 50. Cal for H as well?

Let me guess. Its a shit idea 😒

[arctic fog]

I think it would be cool if heavy had a semi automatic weapon similar to the lh1

It'd also provide more range for the class

[wise briar]

Embark would let puny firearms for heavy. I just couldnt think of any heavy long range weapons except the 50 cal sniper

[half egret]

come put a bump on the famas

[cosmic solstice]

Who wants to play with me I can carry

[mellow lodge]

-lfg

[raven finch]

<:thefinals:1108025386081714196> LFG CHANNELS

Europe:
#lfg-eu-casual
#lfg-eu-ranked

North America:
#lfg-na-casual
#lfg-na-ranked

Asia:
#lfg-asia-casual
#lfg-asia-ranked

Oceania:
#lfg-oce-casual
#lfg-oce-ranked

Brazil (South America):
#lfg-sa-casual
#lfg-sa-ranked

Go to id:customize to show/hide specific channels.

[cosmic solstice]

Hey finals can you give me a cool cosmetic

[stone storm]

no

[uneven totem]

Does anyone know how to beat the aps sentry barricade spam in power shift. Cause glitch grenade hasn’t been working for me

[mellow lodge]

by leving the match or charge and slam heavy with flamethrower

[uneven totem]

I will buy a flamethrower then thank you

[prime cliff]

my god

[onyx forge]

Try sledge in powershift its good

[wind rose]

HELLO

[short citrus]

Im a really cute asian schoolgirl gamer girl

[wise briar]

Why are u gae

[short citrus]

I am not gay"

[wise briar]

.......u are gae

[short citrus]

Im not a light sniper that sits in buildings sniping ppl all game✋️😌

[restive plover]

So you're a light sniper that uses it like a makeshift 1887.

[mellow lodge]

i thought using it as a makeshift 1887 was the only way

[short citrus]

I swing it like a fortnite pickaxe

[wise briar]

Can we have a katana for M that blocks 50% incoming bullets when holding right click and horizontal slash when holding left click

[restive plover]

Mods, remove this genji main.

[short citrus]

That would be too op in my opinion cuz we already have swords for light that can slash but also riot shields that block dmg and kinda lunge torwards opponents when they lock on. Id say its a good idea but we already have very similar weapons that keep the game balanced enough

[restive plover]

Also that would just be riot shield but weaker/stronger, entirely dependent on how good the slash is.

[short citrus]

Id imagine something similar to the stab with the light sword

[humble latch]

Jump up and down while shooting they’re expecting you to crouch up and down so they will be like “oh shit” and they will lose the fight that can be like our fighting movement while apex has has they’re crouch up and down and plus our characters don’t get tired sense it’s a game show u can test it

[arctic fog]

I preemptively spam jump all the time and I usually get lazered anyway lol

[wise briar]

🤣 you're a M main and you dont want a counter for L swords. Jesus christ

[full moss]

💩💀

[mellow lodge]

yeah they already have a counter called cl-40 and fcar

[wise briar]

I dont use cl-40. Too many people are using APS on the battlefield. If L can get a sword, why is it that if i suggest a sword for M, im the one who get ridiculed instead.

[mellow lodge]

well another sword is just boring since it's a sword, why not an actual different melee weapon?

[wise briar]

There arent that many melee weapons that could be useful for the finals and some people have already suggested a chainsaw

[mellow lodge]

it's a vr world anything can work for the finals

[wise briar]

What about a throwing spear

Nah forget it. Thats even worse

[mellow lodge]

well it's better than a katana since light already has a sword

[wise briar]

But im suggesting that the katana has a different skill set than the light sword. It wouldnt be the same.

[mellow lodge]

it's still just a sword though

[wise briar]

Its a different type of sword. Just like a throwing knives is different than a dagger

[mellow lodge]

daggers and throwing knives are different weapons, a katana is just another sword

[wise briar]

Idk dude. I just thought M deserves a better melee weapon than riot shield that L sword could just pierce through it

[mellow lodge]

thats bad coding and riot is good you just have to use it properly

[wise briar]

Idk why for some reason, i still get hit damage from bullets even when im directly blocking infront of them. Is this a cheating problem?

[mellow lodge]

you could be getting shot in the feet

[wise briar]

Damn. I didnt know thats possible

[mellow lodge]

also blocking with it is useless most of the time because if you run on an angle it covers most of your body

[wise briar]

Can it be countered by cl40?

Even when blocking

[mellow lodge]

well its melee so yes

[wise briar]

Ahh i see. I should give that nade launcher another chance lol

[mellow lodge]

<@&1012034066876473384>

[ivory flax]

I think light class needs less focus on damage and more on utility. I have an idea for a gadget/ability that helps light be more of a team player and more object focused. Lets call it SNATCHER for now. Its a gadget that teleport objects from far away directly to you. I imagine it as some thing with grip and little display that you point in direction of an item you want to teleport. Display shows what item is you are aiming at and you should be able to zoom for better precision. Main purpose for this gadget is to revive teammates by stealing their little statues from safe distance and using normal revive. You can also steal money box from enemy player for game winning moves. Barrels, barricades, APS, dome shields, turrets and other gadgets both from teammates and enemy is your plaything. Maybe it can even reprogram them to become yours for some time. Imagine the possibilities and outplay potential with something like this!

[spiral topaz]

Hard thought: What if we remove the damage from rbg, at the same time increase the damage to buildings and (attention) add repulsion. What do you think? Rocketjumps in the arena?

[brittle bobcat]

Hello Game Devs. Can you make atleast 2x we can use data reshaper before it fills up again. thanks

[sacred cypress]

Heavy needs to go back to its old c4 where they had 2 of them and the old damage too. It really helped emphasise the destruction of the game and come to think of it, it only needed nerfing cause of nukes and with that of the way, they should really bring it back the way it used to be.

Plus it's not too different from mines and players now have the game sense to shoot it if identified as a threat

[autumn plaza]

i agree, heavy used too feel like the map was so destructible, but i feel like their map destruction has slowed down

[fleet brook]

Mines shouldn't activate if shot by the enemy or friendly

What is the counterplay to a mine in. Any other game shoot it

In finals mines are lose lose

Can't dodge certain ones without building destruction (still sets off mine) or glitch grenade

[vocal thunder]

random idea to nerve the defri no change while moving opinions ?

and/or give it a cooldown on getting picked up in any way

[gleaming phoenix]

I saw someone else say this but can’t remember who it was but they pitched I think it was a slime nade for lights? That makes the ground sticky so that enemies are slowed

[fleet brook]

Give it a cd on use

On getting picked up in anyway makes revving your teammate manually worse for mediums so they just won't to conserve there defib charge

[restive plover]

can someone explain to me the point of medium having a melee option ? it is literally the worst thing anyone can equip

[fleet brook]

Sheild

Mostly for the shield tbh

[restive plover]

its a poor excuse for a shield, it doesn't block other melee and it barely blocks bullets, your feet can still be shot 24/7 and so can your arms when moving with it

[fleet brook]

If they could have gun + shield it would be cancerous like cod

[restive plover]

that and its the only melee to lack a decent damage attack, unlike the rest of the melee weapons

[fleet brook]

Fair most players like pre gold aim center mass or Will just runaway so ig free pressure on idiots

[restive plover]

id rather have it be a smaller shield, like torso only, but you can sprint/crouch while holding it up

that way when your trying to push someone with it, you can actually put pressure on them, instead of them just looking at you waiting for you to drop the shield and then wait for the whole second delay before you can swing

[sacred cypress]

Nah but u can always counter it let's say pyro mine throw some gas, gas mine throw some fire and explosive mines just useless after getting shot

[fleet brook]

Which severely limits gameplay and means you have to bring a medium with a counter mine load out or suffer

It's kinda stupid that if you notice a mine and you don't have any effects on you you can't do anything

Just have to accept the damage or if it's on a cash out

Finals is the only game I play where you're punished for noticing and shooting an enemy mine

[edgy yacht]

Did the M60 experience any nerfs? I've been using it for a while now (still bad with it) and I swear sometimes I shred someone and other times I hear 100 hits and I feel I'm tickling them

[rough carbon]

Reddit has a topic on how the riot shield can be indefinitely engulfed in flames with a direct fire nade hit

[obsidian nexus]

holy s im tired of the fcar.

[verbal apex]

Using it, facing it, or both?

[steady wave]

93r trash reddit

[obsidian nexus]

both. when i play any other weapon i feel like im throwing. and to go against it feels so bad. i dont even know how to fix the weapon.

[verbal apex]

I agree FCAR meta is pretty boring, but I think some of the other medium weapons are still pretty solid

I'm loving the Model

[fringe sparrow]

buff AKM

[obsidian nexus]

model is great in close quarters. which is fine cuz thats where its meant to shine. FCAR is: shortrange, midrange, longrange ofc on long range it got nerfed and is slightly less effective. but still better than any other gun rn. idk just my thought. im no game dev/balance andy. only thing i am is sick of the same meta for 1,25 seasons

[eager saffron]

idk how people use it over the AKM tbh

the 20 round mag is like always just short of being enough ammo for me

[restive plover]

That's an issue of aim.

It also has one of the fastest reloads in the game.

[obsidian nexus]

i dont want the gun to be gutted. i want it to not be objectively better than the AKM

[eager saffron]

its really not just an issue of aim though, if you're fighting people using cover or healing in any way. that's pretty common since team fights are nearly every fight

it completely shits on light players but against a medium or heavy its a lot harder to get consistent 1 mag kills unless they're out in the open with absolutely nothing to help them

since damn near every team is running healing beam and dome shield it gets even harder

i feel like the FCAR and AKM are both probably where they should be, but the other weapons are just terrible in comparison

like idk why they nerfed the revolver so hard when already practically nobody was using it

and the famas having 10 more DPS than the mf riot shield is actually mind blowing

[verbal apex]

I agree FCAR is better, just saying its not the only solid option

[amber cloak]

Fastest is m11 right?

[restive plover]

I thought it was the xp.

[amber cloak]

It might be

[obsidian nexus]

v9s is crazy fast reload

dont get me wrong tho. metas can get stale very quickly. but i still love this game.

[crimson blaze]

It’s really not.

[amber cloak]

Either way both are insanely fast

[sand monolith]

It literally is in every way besides ammo count. Which does not matter if you can kill any class before needing to reload

[sand monolith]

BTW the range nerf to 50% was mistyped as the original value was 55% but was put as 67% in the patch notes

The nerf to its range did not actually change any breakpoints

[verbal apex]

well, ammo count matters for a bit more than that but yea fcar is the better of the two

[sand monolith]

Ammo count is one of the worst ways to balance a weapon especially if the power of the weapon is adjusted to deal with the ammo count

[verbal apex]

Agreed

[sand monolith]

Fcar needs a new niche and identity now that the famas is meant to be the long range option

[chilly solstice]

For all the gear in the new update it would be cool to add customization for the gear like adding or removing scopes on guns or something and for specializations you could have 3 separate options for one specialization like have a version of the dash that’s just one mega dash that would take longer or for heal beam you could split the beam that heals less or for the cloaking device you could make it faster while in is but takes more charge to use also please undo the invis nerfs

[honest yoke]

mac11 needs more skins

[tranquil valley]

yeah anything that would make a player choose those it would be easier for a light to play against, with how evasive it is? heaven 😂

[unique lynx]

Medium: P90, Akimbo Semi-Auto Pistols (9mm or .45), Spas-12, maybe a precision weapon…

Heavy: Brass Knuckles,
(fast, lower DPS and better lunge accuracy than hammer)
30/40rd Mag-fed M249 SAW, 50 cal. Deagle

-Lightsaber Skin for Sword
-Ghillie Suit skin for character and/or SR-84
-Butterfly Knife skin for Dagger

An oil or ice mine for slicking a surface could be funny (oil could be a canister too)

I’ve said these before but ya know…

[lime tendon]

give light a bow and arrow like my guy hanzo

[amber cloak]

Nah invisibl3 huntsman from tf2?????

[restive plover]

They should as a deployable raising platform

[north leaf]

Temp Healing bubble for medium. could look like a dome shield throwable, or better yet a recon type deployable. it can heal players depending on how much by the distance of it and can last seconds. cons could be that it can also heal non team players, and its small radius.

[rough carbon]

I would like it if the arrow ricochet off of surfaces, at least two or three times

[wicked cliff]

the new burst rifle feels underpowered, i feel like adding an extra 3 bluets for 1 more burst would be nice because i always get them low but run out of ammo before i can get the kill. i end up with like 13 assists at the end of games

[restive plover]

That and one extra damage.

[sudden ingot]

Hey just wondering if anyone knows where the artic camo skin for the AK-47 has come from. I have seen it in a few videos but havent seen it anywhere else. Was it maybe a Beta skin?

[humble moon]

A few days ago I had a problem with a melee weapon. I hit with a hammer and see that a light appears on the enemy, it means that I hit, but there is no damage. Do you have this too or just me?

This appears once per roundThis appears once per round. It is very disturbing and happens at critical moments

[unreal oar]

If they buff the range of the AKM, it will have a distinct advantage over the FCAR. So fcar close range—- akm mid range—— fam as mid/long.
Increase Famas fire rate a tad to make it a bit more dominant at mid so the AKM doesn’t invalidate the burst with accurate full auto

[stiff rain]

Any idea when we might be seeing buffs or changes? Maybe adding guns?

Or is it only season by season

What I wouldn’t do for a decent ranged weapon for Heavy. Like a Deagle or something

[sand monolith]

They would also have to nerf the range of the FCAR as it's currently better than the FAMAS at long range.

The AKM is also currently supposed to be the close range option which is why it has a bigger mag and the least range of the 3.

I genuinely just don't think there's room for 3 assault rifles on medium unless one of them has a gimmick like a thermal scope but is worse than the other two in terms of stats.

Right now their balance philosophy for the fcar just seems like "this weapon is objectively better than the other two rifles in terms of damage and range but has a small mag"

If the balance philosophy for the fcar stays like that then it will always be meta. Mag size is a TERRIBLE balance angle and so is recoil. They honestly never should have added the famas and should have just turned the FCAR into a burst weapon with the exact stats as the famas. Idk what they're gonna do now

[sand monolith]

The thing about heavy is that it's not really supposed to ever have a good long range weapon. Heavy is meant to be strong up close and weak from distance to encourage defensive play. This is why the lewis gun is kind of problematic and why almost every heavy weapon is very short range

@restive plover you have GYAT to see this

[unreal oar]

Fcar isn’t better than Famas at long range, it’s easier to hold onto trigger and control recoil to keep shots on target. The Famas burst has enough jump where at certain distances you might miss some rounds in a burst which ruins your ttk. This is why I said buffs to Famas need to be made. AKM is not the close range rifle, it’s just a high capacity / accurate sustain ——— fcar is officially close range due to damage performance. All they need to do is improve other weapons so they stand out more. Also reduce initial recoil on akm so it doesn’t have any unnecessary disadvantages against fcar close range— it’s already does less damage, it doesn’t need a worse beginning recoil pattern.

[sand monolith]

Assuming you hit every shot, which guns should be balanced around, the FCAR does more DPS than the famas at max range. Recoil is a bad way to balance weapons because it doesnt affect high level play and it's super super easy to cheat and get rid of recoil.

[unreal oar]

The last thing we need are less weapons or more niche things UNTIL all the basics archetypes are covered comfortably. This is a first person shooter… if the shooting doesn’t feel amazing across the board than only certain things are used which limits variety & we’ve already ruined recoil on so many guns that the moment to moment shooting experience has slowly been getting worse

[acoustic girder]

I think they should rebalance everything every season so the games meta completely changes so the game feels fresh and you can use all the gadgets without feeling like your throwing the game if you don’t use the best ones

[unreal oar]

What are you talking about, why do you think I want recoil nerfs? Also—— in a long range firefight, balancing for certain weapons hitting every single shot is silly. First of all the only way that would matter is if someone is using a burst weapon IN THE OPEN whilst FAR FROM THE ENEMY…. This is the most ridiculous scenario that can be painted because that person DESERVES to lose. Has nothing to do with weapon…. Famas needs a buff, fire rate is too slow in a game like this. You can’t even kill a heavy stealing cashout in certain situations

[unreal oar]

When a game is popular and has been going on for a while with stale metas —- what you’re describing is the next stage in a games life cycle…. It’s too soon, not established enough

[sand monolith]

I know obviously not everyone is going to hit every shot but the weapon still shouldn't have the capability to outdamage the long range option. It just needs a damage drop off nerf and a rate of fire nerf and it should be fine

[acoustic girder]

That’s true

[sand monolith]

The FCAR should probably just be a slower but harder hitting AKM with the same drop off

[unreal oar]

No, an accurate weapon will beat a burst weapon in most scenarios even when doing less damage just because of hit percentage. Famas is a BURST weapon… it’s doing less damage because of the pauses in between shots. That is what cover is for… that’s being said Famas needs a fire rate buff. That is the issue

[unreal oar]

No, Fcar needs to be close range with maybe mid-range poke because single shot is so accurate. Akm need a a tiny range buff so it can be the designated mid range weapon that comfortably keeps out Fcar players if they play lazy

[sand monolith]

I agree the Famas probably needs a buff but they should probably hold off on buffing any medium weapons until the FCAR is nerfed properly so that we can see what meta shapes

[unreal oar]

If you nerf fcar, heavy starts to walk all over teams. The fcar put medium on a strength level with heavy, but you have to be mindful of health… akm players needs to get the drop on heavy…. We don’t need another auto gun that’s weak to heavy players running around with lewis gun

[unreal oar]

I don’t want to start another train of nerfs, because lewis gun is on the border, Lh1 is on that border. We have a bunch of other things we’ll need to look at….. then rushing with HH will be even stronger because nobody can kill fast enough… then we need to nerf health, or maybe more shield nerfs…… it doesn’t stop lol

[sand monolith]

LH1, FCAR, and Lewis gun all need nerfs as all 3 weapons don't have any relevant weaknesses. Once those weapons are taken care of, a healthier meta should form where weapon picks are actually based on playstyle and real team comps can be created instead of blindly picking meta because it's so strong and has no weaknesses

[sand monolith]

yes those guns are the last weapons that really need nerfs. the only things so far that have actually needed nerfs are the things that don't have proper downsides. those 3 weapons are the last of that

[unreal oar]

lol yo nobody wants to play the game, a bunch of stuff gets nerfed so now people start using lh1 more—— now we need to nerf lh1….. why do you think so many people are running to use the weapons that we keep chasing them down to nerf? Players want to feel powerful, and this game has gotten WAY less explosive compared to launch day

[unreal oar]

We’re literally sucking all the fun out the room for the sake of balance. And soon it will be a balanced empty room with 4 people hanging outside

[hot vapor]

the game isnt fun with the current meta 💀

[unreal oar]

Think about how DISSAPOINTED the community was that the new weapons didn’t feel strong… now we want MORE weak weapons? Fam lol wth are we saying, it’s time for a different approach

[sand monolith]

Well the issue is that those weapons don't have any weaknesses. Every other weapon in the game has prominent strengths and weaknesses to play around. It's different from just "nerf this weapon because it's the new best weapon" and more of "nerf this weapon because it was poorly designed and overshadows the other weapons in an unhealthy way"

The explosive personality of the game will still exist with these weapons being nerfed and an actually healthy meta will appear.

[unreal oar]

Those weapons stand out MORE because we have NERFED all the other strong things

[sand monolith]

Those weapons have been meta since open beta

[hot vapor]

ur wrong bro, Weapons stand out because they are Op

[sand monolith]

the weapons are the ONLY weapons that do not have a relevant weakness. something every weapon should have

[unreal oar]

You never mentioned the lh1 until this season

[sand monolith]

because i had never used it or seen it used

[unreal oar]

Stop the cap

[unreal oar]

Why do you think that is? It was always good. It was the only light weapons used since open beta.

[hot vapor]

Shotgun for heavy was Op they nerfed it, heavy kit is still strong, the only thing i can say is ppl started using the 70round lmg more now, but ofc when they nerf things ppl stop using the op shit and transfer to other op stuff

[acoustic girder]

Idk I think when a weapon stands out it’s because a lot of people use them because they are meta or it is just fundamentally different from the rest like the flamethrower or dagger

[unreal oar]

Nobody cares because Fcar was crazy, lewis was crazy, OB m6o was crazy. aKM was crazy pistol was crazy

[sand monolith]

because light was finally viable once the other classes got NERFED. so people finally SAW light

[hot vapor]

flamethrower is literally almost busted, the dagger on the otherhand yeah its used because it stands out, Light LH1 has been busted but the smg’s were just a better option up until now

[sand monolith]

and light is ONLY viable in competitive because the LH1 is stupidly strong. which is not a healthy reason for light to be viable

[acoustic girder]

And you cant prevent people from doing this the community gets mad at players for playing the guns that are viable competitively just for them to scream at the devs to nerf them so people can start using the next best gun and then that get nerfed

[unreal oar]

What? Light having a strong weapon as a partial assassin class is bad for balance?

[unreal oar]

What would you change about the lh1

[acoustic girder]

Flamethrower is really fun to play but i feel like it’s damage output isn’t great which makes sense lol

[sand monolith]

Light is meant to have strong weapons. The issue is that the LH1 is the best weapon in the game by far and it's not even close. The weapon is SO good that it's "long range playstyle" is entirely optional and it can be used to full effect up close. The numbers are so high that it's intended weakness (close range combat) is not relevant at all

[sand monolith]

I would lower the rate of fire by half and buff the damage to 50

[acoustic girder]

I haven’t seen anyone have problems With the lh1 I think it’s just cause I’m in gold rn lol

[sand monolith]

yeah when you get higher its very noticeable

[acoustic girder]

Then it’s just a sniper without a scope

[unreal oar]

lol this is a joke. Half the fire rate is silly

[hot vapor]

i agree, but when it comes to op guns i think they should nerf, how many shotguns have u seen being used from heavy this season, probably none per set rn, i think if u really like the gun you will still use it no matter what

[sand monolith]

Yes its a battle rifle thats what its meant to be

[hot vapor]

Lh1 will shred ur hp to blinking in half a sec ngl😂😂 i dont think its too busted but sometimes it can be overwhelming

[acoustic girder]

Yeah I didn’t even know the auto shotgun got nerfed I was just able to notice so I switched to the Lewis gun but I hate it’s recoil pattern

[unreal oar]

This is the endless cycle of people losing to something & allowing helplessness to take over—this leads to begging devs for nerfs

[hot vapor]

it’s another one of those overwhelming weapons, especially that heal beams need a nerf to imo

or some way to counter it easier

[sand monolith]

It is a long range weapon, the fire rate is meant to be low in order to make it weak at close range (more punishing to miss shots up close) buffing the damage to 50 will allow the LH1 to 2 tap lights, 3 tap mediums, and 4 tap heavies while shooting at 2.5 shots per second from RANGE. How would this be a bad weapon at all???

[acoustic girder]

What about damage fall of for the lh1 make the gun do less damage up close but more at a medium to long range

[acoustic girder]

I thought the heal beam got nerfed because of its overheating or has that always been a thing?

[hot vapor]

thats always been a thing i thought, but that overheating shit doesnt matter lmaoo the cd is way to quick, + by the time it overheats u already healed ur teamates to full 3x over

[acoustic girder]

Yeah that’s true

I’m finally orange I’ve yapped enough 🎉

[hot vapor]

especially when those 3heal beam triple defib teams popout

[unreal oar]

You’re telling me headshots to kill and think I’m impressed by any of this? Horrible idea friend, you need to actually feel out that fire rate you’re talking about and see how practical that is, you’re just trying to make it a sniper or bolt action kind of rifle….. nobody wants that

[sand monolith]

it is a battle rifle?? thats what battle rifles are??????????????

if it keeps a fast fire rate it will literally just always be a better V9S

[unreal oar]

So when you eventually need to get close to people (since that’s where most the game takes place) now you’ll be punished? So when your teammates complain why are you so far away you’ll have a legit reason now lol

[sand monolith]

fast fire rate semi auto is what the V9S was made for. just use the V9S...

[unreal oar]

I don’t want to spam anything that fast. Why are you suggesting I mess up my hand to play a game?

[restive plover]

Mouse wheel:

[sand monolith]

what???? im just comparing the weapons. both the LH1 and the V9S are fast fire rate semi auto weapons. The only noteable difference is that the LH1 does a shit ton of damage and has far more range. So why would anyone ever use the V9S?

[unreal oar]

Battle rifle and slow shooting bolt action are two different things. Find me any game that has a battle rifle shooting at the speed you’re describing….. I’ll wait

[sand monolith]

2.5 shots a second is not slow bolt action

[acoustic girder]

Yeah the same as any gun like the sledgehammer needing to be close or the model 1887

[unreal oar]

Cries in console player

[restive plover]

Ximming:

[unreal oar]

Nah, getting close it the conclusion of EVERY fight, not the opposite. The logic doesn’t apply the same

[unreal oar]

Show me an example in any game you play where a battle rifle is shooting at specifically half the speed we get from the LH1

[hot vapor]

Rainbow Six Siege

[unreal oar]

Pistol shoots wayyyyy faster than lh1 & honestly it’s on your best interest to max out the fire rate to get some pretty great ttks, even more so if you can do headshots. Hipfire is way better and more reliable—- easier to keep target close range pistol DESTROYS enemy light players. All that said LH1 hits like a truck so it’s the best option in all situations to me. Allows light to do engage from a. Distance that doesn’t put the 150hp up for grabs

[unreal oar]

Which weapon, I play r6 diamond player

[hot vapor]

but tbh the Lh1 should shoot at that speed or a little dmg nerf, heals beams still exist

[hot vapor]

twitchs dmr

but u cant really compare because the games function 2 different ways

[unreal oar]

Lmao twitch dmr shoots faster then LH1

[unreal oar]

Lmao yo that’s mad funny, you can spam that thing as fast as the vs9 in this game

Whatever they do to the fcar, I’ll still use it in s3 at least to flex the diamond skin before better animated ones ultimately come out

[sand monolith]

DMRs in real life shoot at double the fire rate of the LH1 in game. Realism is a bad argument for balance.

The LH1 needs a firerate nerf so it makes sense in game. Not in real life

[unreal oar]

You mentioned real life & I mentioned “any game”. This is why I can’t trust you guys to make balance decisions lol (Jp)

[sand monolith]

if youre referencing this message #💣┇weapons-gadgets message I am saying "thats what battle rifles are" in relation to videogames.

I also meant to say DMRs so sorry for that. But yes in videogames, DMRs will shoot slower than other weapons to counterbalance their range and damage. The same should happen for the LH1

[restive thorn]

I think we all agree that light and sword need nerfs

[slim yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-spongebob-think-thinking-gif-4280214517394111861

[fleet brook]

True being stunned should make contestants constrict and soil themselves

[violet cosmos]

LH1 is perfectly fine with how easily everything kills a Light

I can't believe people are still trying to butcher an already dead class, kindly stop, light already has some of the highest ttk guns in the game despite being as squishy as he is, you literally cannot lose to a light as another class if you're both hitting shots unless they're running an XP or LH1

[sand monolith]

That's not a light issue. That's because of the other brainless meta weapons that have no weakness like Lewis gun and FCAR. as well as the RPG gadget

The LH1 undoubtedly needs nerfs alongside the FCAR and Lewis gun

the xp-54 is another boring weapon with no weaknesses but it's stats actually arent that impressive and it can lose to other light weapons so it doesn't really need to be touched rn. but i would like to see it reworked

[violet cosmos]

it absolutely does not because an AK kills a light in the same TTK range

all of those are on high health and harder to kill classes

[sand monolith]

yes light dies fast. that is the point of having lower HP

[violet cosmos]

he needs to kill fast too, and his other weapons don't do that

[sand monolith]

you also have a smaller hitbox, faster movement, every special is based on keeping you alive

[violet cosmos]

smaller hitbox is literally a non issue when most problems are AOE

[sand monolith]

you aren't meant to just run up to someone and 1v1 on them head on

thats not how you play light

[fleet brook]

Sniper light go brrt

[sand monolith]

which is why i said the RPG needs to be nerfed

[violet cosmos]

literally everything needs a nerf then lol

[sand monolith]

if the RPG, Lewis gun, and Fcar were nerfed (which they all should be,) light would be in a much better spot and the LH1 would also need a nerf

[violet cosmos]

no it wouldn't because an AK kills a light just as fast

[sand monolith]

yes every primary weapon without a relevant weakness needs to be nerfed

[sand monolith]

???????????? yes thats the point of light you die fast

[fleet brook]

I want rpg changed to ARENA DAMAGE and utility damage

The original purpose of it feels like it does mediocre arena damage but good player damage

[sand monolith]

When you play light you are meant to have the first shot advantage every time and better positioning. So comparing raw TTK like that doesnt matter

[fleet brook]

Light can choose when and when not to fight

You can also disengage the best out of any class

Grapple out or grapple in etc

[sand monolith]

yeah if you're running head first into an AKM and saying "wow that gun kills just as fast as mine" then you arent playing the class right

[short citrus]

My hot take is that the glitch grenade is trash and I dont feel bad in any way for saying it

[fleet brook]

It's def situational on power shift it's Good

[sand monolith]

the LH1 also has more range than the AKM and you are meant to play at that range. It will kill a medium with an AKM faster from its effective range than the medium can kill you

[short citrus]

I find the only exception is when the opps are guarding the cashbox w 100 sheild bubbles turrets and aps

[violet cosmos]

you have to be able to kill fast and his weapons have some of the highest ttk's in the game aside from the XP, M11, and LH1, you literally cannot compete with them on any level outside of it. Light needs to be able to pump out DPS relative to his low health because otherwise you just get chip damaged and suddenly you can't even win a fight that would normally be in your favor when you jump someone at lower health from behind. The game isn't some vacuum of DPS checks and hitting every shot, you will more often then not be blindsided by something while trying to focus a low health target and die for it because that incentivies chasing and being away from your team. What you're asking for would make Light bad at chasing and even worse in teamfights.

[mellow lodge]

so glitch is good in every single ranked game

[violet cosmos]

you will never always have that, its impossible, a class balanced around rat behavior is a shit one

[short citrus]

Basically, unless ur game full of cheaters

[sand monolith]

??? thats how you play light thats the entire point of the class and what all the gadgets and specials are made for

[fleet brook]

You'll frequently have first shot as light

[sand monolith]

its not impossible its already the case lol

[mellow lodge]

lights entire existence is to play like a rat

[fleet brook]

Most of lights kit is based around getting you first shot?

[sand monolith]

literally the entire kit is based around positioning and getting the drop on people

[violet cosmos]

you play as a glass cannon assassin that can pump out great DPS and movement at a cost of not having health for extended fights and being chipped to death

[sand monolith]

what do you think the word assassin means

[fleet brook]

Get in get out if you get noticed your gone

[sand monolith]

what kind of playstyle do you think it means

[mellow lodge]

well currently light is really just glass rn with no cannon

[violet cosmos]

you jump a priority target in a fight

like a medi beam medium

[sand monolith]

this is what an assassin does in games

[violet cosmos]

except light does not have the firepower to justify his existence outside of XP and LH1

[mellow lodge]

light does need a fast ttk or it just sucks at being an assassin

[sand monolith]

all the guns that are great on light (over half)

the double barrel would be good if RPG got nerfed

[mellow lodge]

now include the other weapons light have

[violet cosmos]

m11 requires you to be close range, good luck with that

[sand monolith]

they're gimmick weapons

[mellow lodge]

yeah because the devs can't fucking balance

[sand monolith]

i dont really count gimmick weapons when thinking of any class

[mellow lodge]

they are only gimmick because they suck

[violet cosmos]

the normal ass pistol is okay but it requires precision out of you too when you're already at a disadvantage

[sand monolith]

sword isnt terrible

[mellow lodge]

93r is worse than said gimmick weapons anyway

[sand monolith]

yeah but its not a gimmick weapon it doesnt have a gimmick

[mellow lodge]

sword is one of the best light weapons when the hit reg gets fixed

[sand monolith]

"gun requires precision"

[violet cosmos]

headshots are needed, headass

[sand monolith]

not really?

[violet cosmos]

lmao you have not played light at all then

[sand monolith]

well, the V9S isnt good because the LH1 overshadows it entirely. Becuase despite being a long range weapon, the LH1 is just as good at close range because the fire rate is so high

[mellow lodge]

well his role does say he mains heavy

[sand monolith]

i am a light main i put on heavy main to fuck with someone that was annoying

[violet cosmos]

you don't know shit if you're saying stuff like this

[sand monolith]

The LH1 does the exact same thing the V9S does but better. It needs a lower fire rate and more damage to distinguish itself from the V9S. Or else there will literally never be a point in using the V9S because the LH1 is the same thing but better

[violet cosmos]

you missed the fact the pistol doesn't kill as fast as the LH1 anyways, so buff it

[mellow lodge]

omg just like fcar to every single medium weapon

[violet cosmos]

nobody wants to use it cause you lose to everything with it

[sand monolith]

I literally said the LH1 is better

[sand monolith]

yeah and the lewis gun on heavy compared to m60

[mellow lodge]

i think both lmg's need a ttk nerf

[sand monolith]

every class has one weapon thats just fucking stupid and the LH1 is that weapon for light

[mellow lodge]

they both have a faster ttk than akm and famas kinda stupid for an lmg

[violet cosmos]

the LH1 is better, yes, because the pistol is shit

[sand monolith]

No its not 😭

[mellow lodge]

yeah lh1 is mental if you can aim

[violet cosmos]

the bar is underground, you clearly haven't used it

[sand monolith]

it is my main weapon

i am diamond and use the V9S

[mellow lodge]

you got the new skin for it?

[sand monolith]

the weapon is good. too bad the LH1 is objectively better

[sand monolith]

yes its awesome i will have to buy multibucks for the next battlepass now

[violet cosmos]

Sorry you like using a shit weapon, that doesn't make it good suddenly

[mellow lodge]

does it have anything special about it, or just it's amazing looks?

[sand monolith]

it just looks awesome

[mellow lodge]

ah sad times 😔

[sand monolith]

its one of the fastest killing weapons in the game its not my fault you dont know how to use it

[mellow lodge]

yeah v9s is good, lh1 just outshines it

[sand monolith]

yeah cause the fire rate on the lh1 is so high that it's completely usable at close range when it shouldnt be

[mellow lodge]

i was gonna disagree with the lh1 nerf but if it gets higher damage for a lower fire rate i support it

[sand monolith]

yes get the buff to 50 damage for a lower fire rate so the lh1 finally his a unique place instead of just being the "fuck you die" weapon

and fix the annoying visual recoil on it

every problematic primary weapon in the game is problematic for the same reason its so funny

they all have no relevant weaknesses and just completely outclass the other, more balanced weapons on the class because of it

every primary weapon is meant to have strengths and weaknesses but the LH1, FCAR, and Lewis gun just dont have a weakness

[mellow lodge]

i was about to say lh1 gets countered by stun but that changes tomorrow 😂

[sand monolith]

lh1 gets countered by stun from a light also using lh1 because why use anything else

im excited to see the stun rework

[restive plover]

Hopefully it gets a better deal than the ks did.

[mellow lodge]

i am glad about the nerfs i just cannot support light getting nerfed while heavy and medium just are where they are

[violet cosmos]

They should give it a higher headshot multiplier to compensate for the LH1 intruding in close range. Because as it stands, it's just bad. You could pick either the SMG's and be better off from an ease of use and ttk perspective. The pistol has no reason to exist unless it actually rewards the precision needed to make it work.

[sand monolith]

you are the only person i have ever met to say the pistol is bad. its literally good

it definitely does not need buffs lmao

[mellow lodge]

v9s has same ttk as xp and a quicker ttk than lh1 at close range though

[sand monolith]

the thing is that even if you buff the V9S to compete with the LH1 it'll always end up with the same problem if you dont rework the LH1

one will always outshine the other because they literally do the same exact thing

[mellow lodge]

@sand monolith you use dash or cloak with v9?

[sand monolith]

dash. cloak was always super overrated

[mellow lodge]

vanish, stun, glitch/frag/gateway?

[violet cosmos]

No, because the pistol will be confined to precision at close range to make work. So it won't outshine most guns because it'll be harder to use in comparison to it's competition, and not in stupid ways like the FCAR just being better in every way compared to the AK

[mellow lodge]

omg he uses goo

[sand monolith]

goo is crazy good

[mellow lodge]

i just don't know how to use goo properly

[sand monolith]

assume someone will be shooting at you after you do anything stupid and throw goo preemptively

[sand monolith]

the LH1 is better in every way compared to pistol

balancing primaries about being "harder to use" is a terrible idea because the harder but better weapons will be the only thing you see in top play

[mellow lodge]

umm acshully 🤓 v9 has more ammo

[sand monolith]

primaries should be balanced around strengths and weaknesses as well as playstyle differences

[sand monolith]

wait does this also mean the fcar blows

[mellow lodge]

well no because fcar has faster reload speed

[violet cosmos]

because it's ass in it's current state

[mellow lodge]

the pistol isn't bad though

[sand monolith]

its literally good

[violet cosmos]

It has no justification to it's existence with the smg's being easier and better to use close range and the lh1 being better everywhere else

[sand monolith]

wow i wonder what weapon is at fault for that being the case

[mellow lodge]

if you hit your headshots pistol is better than both smg's

[violet cosmos]

The pistol has no niche

[sand monolith]

BECAUSE THE LH1 TAKES IT

the xp-54 also takes it but the xp-54 is actually a little worse than the pistol stats wise

[violet cosmos]

shows how awful of a weapon it is when the medium range semi auto rifle is better at close range because the pistol doesn't output enough damage to compete when its confined to close quarters (the pistol already loses to smgs)

[mellow lodge]

xp wins because better sight/ v9 having a pretty bad sight

[sand monolith]

yeah xp wins in terms of being wayyyyy easier to use for slightly lower performance

[mellow lodge]

it's only lower when headshots are taken inot account

[sand monolith]

id like to see the xp reworked but it's really not an issue until the LH1 is fixed

[sand monolith]

note that the LH1 is also better than the xp up close

[mellow lodge]

give me xp with no sight back 😭

[sand monolith]

CB2 XP MY BELOVED

[violet cosmos]

good luck hitting all your shots on a fellow light

[sand monolith]

its so funny how every cb2 weapon added was terribly designed

"guys heres 1 weapon for each class theyre all just objectively better versions of their counterparts and dont have any weaknesses"

[violet cosmos]

the XP/m11 gets to hold down M1 and spray till you drop

the LH1 has to aim and it has bad hipfire

[mellow lodge]

oh no you have to aim with a gun 😱

[sand monolith]

note that only 4 of your 15 bullets have to hit the light (bodyshots only) to kill with LH1

[violet cosmos]

and where does the pistol fit into this? Its close range so intrudes on the SMG's (bad idea), and it sucks at medium range because it has bad iron sights and not good recoil, it has worse damage per shot compared to the LH1 at those ranges, yet it still requires as much precision as the rifle to compete with it compared to the smg's. There is no niche for it. Either it needs to be a slower firing higher damaging close range burst weapon that doesn't have many rounds but can absolutely delete things up close at a cost of requiring precision in tight spaces where you're at your most vulnerable, or it needs to be far more range orientated and have its recoil cut down (both visual and normal)

[sand monolith]

the pistol has the least recoil of any weapon on light

[violet cosmos]

there is no point to making the LH1 worse because the pistol sucks at it

[sand monolith]

besides the burst pistol and sniper i guess

burst pistol has more visual recoil too

[violet cosmos]

a lot of it shakes the pistol around, it technically doesn't have much, but unless you're running a external crosshair (cheating), your irons will get blurred out by the recoil for long enough to make your next shot far more likely to miss at medium ranges unless you take your time to line up shots when this weapon doesn't have the damage per shot to justify that. It wants to be spammed, but it can't be because you can't aim it at that point.

They could give it another niche of being a super mobile weapon that allows you to shoot while sprinting and other things like that

[sand monolith]

dude you are literally the only person that thinks the pistol is bad

the pistol has relevant advantages and disadvantages over every light weapon besides LH1

[violet cosmos]

the pistol is usable, its not good

[sand monolith]

note that this also applies for every weapon that isnt the LH1

[wind rose]

yeah its not good

[violet cosmos]

I think I'm the only one with a brain then

if thats really the case, which I doubt

it has zero niche, because it intrudes on the niches of the other weapons which are perfect for light

[sand monolith]

the V9S has a range advantage over the M11 and a damage and recoil advantage over the XP-54

[violet cosmos]

but its a semi auto precision weapon, that falls on deaf ears

[sand monolith]

its not a precision weapon it fires 600 RPM 😭

it also has the highest damage per mag out of the 3 weapons (you'll never guess which weapon has even higher)

it also has great hipfire

it also has the fastest reload

it has the highest dps out of the 3 weapons when you include reloading so its best for sustained combat (most fights)

like no offense but if you think the weapon is bad then you are using it wrong

the V9S can kill 2 heavies in 1 mag. The xp54 and m11 can not

[violet cosmos]

Its a sustained dps, thats why, the XP and m11 pump their damage out incredibly quickly and then the light retreats out to reload and reengage when they can. The LH1 is a medium range weapon and is far more dependent on the Light having good positioning to make work because you will still lose to mediums and heavies if you are not careful with when you peak/where you engage from.

The V9S can kill 2 heavies in one mag, but that doesn't matter when every time you're in a fight as a Light, you're gonna be retreating out to not die and get your health back anyways. The pistol becomes much better when you've got a medium shoved up your ass who knows the potential power it has, but as it stands, it has no niche on your own that isn't done better by the smg's.

[sand monolith]

The V9S is 1 bullet away from being able to kill 3 heavies in 1 mag btw. And will get the last heavy low enough to quick melee 1 tap

[sand monolith]

damage per mag is incredibly useful for light wtf are you talking about??? reloading is one of the biggest weaknesses for light and the pistol has so much damage per mag AND the fastest reload. you will never get caught reloading if you are competent at all with the pistol

it literally does more DPS than the XP too like idk what youre talking about

[violet cosmos]

it does on a full mag, but it takes much longer to get that full mag out compared to the XP

[sand monolith]

what

the pistol does more damage faster than the XP does

[sullen tree]

True, and when you're a light every second you're not in cover is a second you're dying

[sand monolith]

the pistol kills enemies faster than the XP does EVEN with less ammo because the pistol has more damage per mag

[violet cosmos]

thats not true, it fires slower than the XP

[sand monolith]

but does more damage

[violet cosmos]

that doesn't matter, the difference is too extreme

[sand monolith]

no its not 😭

[violet cosmos]

you have had 2 other people come in here and say I have more a point then you so far lol

[sand monolith]

it doesnt even matter you are literally wrong about numbers

the pistol does more dps than the XP that is literally just a fact

[violet cosmos]

it only has more DPS when you take into account its full mag, otherwise the XP does far more burst, which matters far more on an assassin

[sand monolith]

what???????? do you know what dps is?????

[violet cosmos]

its almost like sustained DPS is bullshit or something

[sand monolith]

the pistol has a LOWER ttk on every class 😭

[sullen tree]

It also bounces like crazy.

Look at the LH1. Best light gun on paper, horrid in practice

[sand monolith]

its literally the only light weapon used in ranked what

[violet cosmos]

it only matters how easy and fast the damage gets out, not how much it does

[sand monolith]

THE PISTOL KILLS FASTER ON EVERY CLASS WHAT ARE U SAYING

[sullen tree]

The stability, quick burst, and ease of use for the XP5 make it more consistent

[violet cosmos]

first of all it barely does to mean anything, secondly, it doesn't do it easier than the XP or m11

[sullen tree]

Which means more people use it, couple that with the much better firing over range

[violet cosmos]

it has a scope

[sullen tree]

And it doesn't bounce up and block your screen every time you shoot

[sand monolith]

ease of use isnt a balance angle for primaries 😭

[violet cosmos]

it absolutely is

[sullen tree]

It always is in terms of the meta.

[sand monolith]

ok so in high level play the pistol has higher numbers so then because people are hitting shots more often, the pistol is better?

[stray slate]

That’s what the military is. We’ve come down to press button, country goes extinct

[restive plover]

It's a very bad one. If skill can erase a weakness then it's not a meaningful weakness.

[violet cosmos]

yes, if you can hit your shots on the head far more

[sand monolith]

ok so the pistol has a niche then

[sullen tree]

I mean, look at dagger.

On paper, it'd be great because of how much potential it has.

In practice it's horrible

[stray slate]

Most people aren’t skilled at this game

[sullen tree]

Well if we're talking a headshot niche, LH1 is better

[sand monolith]

holy shit someone with a brain

[violet cosmos]

but the problem is that the niche is done better by the LH1 because it can do medium range damage

[stray slate]

I can agree with that.

[restive plover]

That will change as the community gets older.

[stray slate]

I hope so 😭

[sand monolith]

ok so... pistol is better than xp... lh1 is better than pistol..............

[sullen tree]

I disagree. Skill can mitigate a weakness, but never fully erase it

[violet cosmos]

if you can hit headshots, the pistol is better then xp, but if you can hit headshots, why the fuck aren't you using the LH1?

[sand monolith]

wow i wonder if the LH1 might be overpowered!

[sullen tree]

LH1 has comparable recoil

[violet cosmos]

its almost like the pistol is bad

[sand monolith]

but its better than the xp, which is good?

hold on let me make sure im getting this

XP-54 (GOOD WEAPON) > PISTOL (BAD WEAPON) > LH1 (BALANCED WEAPON) according to you?

[violet cosmos]

not better enough to matter when one isn't semi auto, has a scope, better recoil, and fits far better into the typical light playstyle of burst and retreat

[sand monolith]

except for it literally doesnt because pistol dose more burst damage than the xp

[violet cosmos]

if you can hit only headshots

[sand monolith]

AND reloads faster you so you can peek faster

the pistol dps is higher with bodyshots only than th xp-54 bodyshots only

like you are genuinely just wrong

[violet cosmos]

the XP rules close range through ease of use, they just have to m1 and aim at you and they'll have their optimal ttk by just hitting body shots and dodging yours

You have to hit an enemy that just has to run circles around you and spray, meanwhile yours has to aim like the LH1 while not having the DPS to justify it

[sand monolith]

nope m11 is better close range than xp

so is pistol

[violet cosmos]

the M11 is better super close yes, but the XP reaches out far further than that while preserving its ttk well

[sand monolith]

the xp is a jack of all trades weapon but is not the best at any of them. i dont know if you've noticed this

that is the point of the weapon. it is not the best at anything but does everything well

M11: Close range SMG. Better than anything at close range. Not great at medium range but will do damage.

V9S: Medium range pistol. Best at medium range. Good at close range but not as good as the m11.

XP-54: Good at medium and close range. Not better than m11 or V9S at either of their niche ranges.

LH1: better than every weapon on light at every range besides sniper from literally 200 meters.

wait this actually sounds super balanced

[restive plover]

Something like ease of use is gotten over through practice. It's why the recoil changes to the lewis and fcar did nothing to unseat them. People went to the shooting range, learned the new patterns, and moved on.

[sand monolith]

yes. ease of use is a TERRIBLE balance factor

it literally only affects casual play. there will never be a reason to use the V9S if the LH1 is the same thing but objectively better and slightly harder to use

[violet cosmos]

yeah, it does everything well, which is exactly what you want from a weapon as Light, but it particularly exceeds in the ranges just above the M11 where it drops off hard and where other things like the flamethrower can't reach it. It is incredibly good in this particular range, and if stuck to, easily outdoes the pistol and the m11 at the same time because of its flexibility. Its usable everywhere, unlike the pistol which is niched into close range where the m11 beats it conventianally and the XP's ease of use has it beaten outside in longer ranges. It can't even do medium ranges because then the LH1 steps up to bat.

The pistol attempts to do things the XP and LH1 already do, but worse, its not a sidegrade to any of them because its working worse off than them both already. It has no ease of use and trade off for it. It has no damage or range to compete with the LH1, it doesn't have some gimmick like the dagger that makes it do more damage into people's backs, no, the pistol has absolutely nothing going for it beyond technically doing more damage than the XP due to raw damage numbers but that doesn't mean it can compete in the XP or M11's ranges.

[sand monolith]

why would you ever learn to use the V9S if the LH1 is just better

[sand monolith]

the pistol has more range than the xp 😭

[valid lily]

I guess medium shotgun could be more rewarding at close combat but nerf for long range

[sand monolith]

the xp has worse drop off and damage from range

[violet cosmos]

One has a scope, and other has terrible iron sights

[sand monolith]

ease of use is not a balance factor

[violet cosmos]

yes it is

[sand monolith]

you are genuinely a lost cause

[restive plover]

The only change the 1887 needs is to improve its hit registration.

[sullen tree]

to be fair, the Fcar recoil was barely nerfed

[violet cosmos]

its a cope to tell me that the hard to use pistol is the baseline by which all weapons should be balanced by on light

[sand monolith]

guys i need a scope at medium range

note that the famas is a long range weapon (no scope)

[violet cosmos]

it has better iron sights

[sand monolith]

note that the revolver is a long range weapon (no scope)

[sullen tree]

of course it is, otherwise the dagger would be dominating lobbies.

If the skill ceiling was all that mattered, you'd be seeing stuff like sword light at the top of the meta

[violet cosmos]

people don't use it for longer ranges and in fact complain about its irons a lot

[valid lily]

It needs more pallets and wide spread desing

[sand monolith]

the dagger is bad because it literally doesnt work and because it has no range. it has ACTUAL downsides

[violet cosmos]

you're actually insane if you think the dagger is what things should be balanced by

[sullen tree]

yea, but that's the difficulty of use

[sand monolith]

range is not ease of use

[violet cosmos]

range absolutely adds to ease of use

[sullen tree]

oh I don't think that's what they're saying

[sand monolith]

ease of use is recoil and ironsights. not anything that changes what you're actually capable of doing with the weapon

[violet cosmos]

downsides like the dagger on every weapon would make everything unusable

[sand monolith]

i didnt bring up dagger idk why youre acting like i did or that i ever said that

downsides like the m11 has would make the game actually good

note that the LH1 has no downsides

[violet cosmos]

it has ACTUAL downsides

Downsides that make it useless

[sand monolith]

if the dagger worked and the charge attack could be held it would literally be good

[restive plover]

Not really. If I'm stood on top of a roof spraying down at a dagger light there is nothing their weapon can do to me.

[violet cosmos]

it might be okay, the sword would not be beaten for a gimmick like that

[sand monolith]

range is not ease of use. it allows you to do more damage from longer range. thats like saying fire rate and damage is ease of use because the weapon is just better objectively so its easier to use

[sullen tree]

yes it is though.

it's a factor, just like recoil, or the ironsights of a gun. Which is what we talk about with ease of use

[violet cosmos]

it absolutely does, that being it sucks to use at close range unless you're against a heavy because they can't move a lot

[sullen tree]

yes, the whole difficulty then is getting up to that person. That's the skill expression

[sand monolith]

guys buff the damage on the pistol by 50 trust me its just for ease of use

[sand monolith]

LH1 up close is literally worst against heavy LOL

[sullen tree]

oh no, don't do that.

pistol is fine as it is, but like much of light's kit, it's just not good. Even when compared to more consistent options

[sand monolith]

i am talking to someone that genuinely has no idea how the game is played

[violet cosmos]

aim for the head, I thought that was easy for you?

[sand monolith]

heavy up close will kill LH1 light faster and only heavy. Heavy's ENTIRE kit is about being good up close

it is actually insane you thought that lmao

guys just get close to heavy

wait im starting to think getting close to this class might be a bad idea

[violet cosmos]

if you're smack in a heavies face, yeah you're going to die, but outside of flamethrower range, in the sweet spot where you can still dodge lewis/m60 sprays with dash and charge/slam, you will shred one very quickly.

[fleet brook]

When the shotgun isn't good up close

I run KS and you'd think it'd be better up close it isn't

[sand monolith]

ok so why is the long range rifle better at that close up range than the smg

[violet cosmos]

because it can be precise on the large easy to hit target

[sand monolith]

ok so the LH1 is just the best at every range if you hit shots

[fleet brook]

So sniper is the best then

[violet cosmos]

no, its better into heavies

[sand monolith]

why not medium?

[violet cosmos]

Mediums and lights have weapons that can shred you far more easily if you don't play perfectly

If you've got dash, you'll have to contend with getting jumped by other lights running invis and an SMG, which will let them get the first shots on you if you aren't careful. Their TTK on you is basically half of a second, that's all you've got. That's not enough time to aim and double headshot them to death before their SMG kills you. Not even close. So you'll have to retreat a lot to be outside of their range. But if they have dash, good luck, its a very skill heavy matchup and you'll probably be playing cat and mouse with them the whole game.

If they're playing medium, their shotgun two shots you at surprisingly long range. And while its true that it is a longer kill than the FCAR (which I won't even talk about), it has the benefit of being something you can aim, fire, and then focus on dodging before shooting again. You only need to get the light twice in order to win the engagement. And while it is true there are times you can easily outrange them, there will equally be as many times you have to go into somewhere confined and fight where the shotguns are at their best. You'll be at a heavy disadvantage for most fights because more often than not, the medium will start shooting back and chip you down a considerable amount even if you are going to win the engagement.

But its made even worse by the medium having access to grenade launchers that make lights in close to medium ranges not exist at all because they can almost entirely focus on dodging because their stuff is AOE. If you have dash, its a more fair fight, but everything else gets destroyed by it. However, if a medium takes an AK, they can still very easily win fights against you too. They could go bodyshot for bodyshot and they'll win because they just have more health and bullets to pump out. You can outrange the AK, but you can get chipped down rather easily still. You're playing Light still.

[fleet brook]

The essay is impressive

[sand monolith]

medium shotgun is incredibly easy to bait out with dash and the long period between shots with it makes light great against it if you play well. not to mention the LH1 STILL KILLS FASTER THAN IT

the only weapon on medium that will shit on the lh1 up close is the FCAR and the CL-40 (assuming you're playing light poorly and aren't on highground)

[violet cosmos]

assuming the medium is bad, yes, but that's only something that happens when the medium is on your team

[sand monolith]

?? time the shots on light

dash the opposite direction when they are about to shoot. it is a 50/50 for them if they try to predict or an incredibly hard shot to hit if they try to react

meanwhile you are completely in control of where you're going and they have no quick movement. you win that fight easily

not to mention you also just win even if you tank both shots because you can kill the medium before they shoot twice

wait lh1 is actually super balanced.,,,,,,,,,,

[violet cosmos]

this is with headshots, sure

[sand monolith]

me when the long range rifle is wins a 1v1 up close against a shotgun on a class with 100 more HP

[sand monolith]

also assuming you are up close to begin with against a shotgun which means you are playing poorly to begin with

thats the crazy part about the lh1, its good from every range

you dont need to get up close or need to stay back

and yet you still kill fastest from every range despite the other weapons killing slower with range limitations

wait lh1 is actually really balanced.......

[violet cosmos]

if you can hit all headshots on a medium and kill him before he can kill you with a shotgun, that's just you being really good at the game (or cheating)

[sand monolith]

or just dont get close to the shotgun medium

[violet cosmos]

you do, because it has terrible hipfire and its a semi auto weapon trying to compete with actual close range weapons like the AK or the SMG's

[sand monolith]

ease of use isnt a good balance factor 😭

[violet cosmos]

it absolutely is, stop being stupid

[sand monolith]

guys its objectively the best weapon on the class and theres no reason to learn any other weapon because if you're gonna put time into a weapon, this one will give objectively the best results. its balanced though!!!!!!!!!!

what a horrible idea

[violet cosmos]

thats because the pistol is shit, again I will say, it intrudes on the LH1's range while having no bite to that bark

[sand monolith]

LH1 beats every light weapon at every range if you are playing well. so why practice with any of those other weapons?

[violet cosmos]

thats just untrue, because nobody is going to be perfect

[sand monolith]

hitting 4 headshots is far from perfect

especially when the entire class gives you the opportunity to get the first shot and back off if you fuck up

i just feel like maybe..... just maybe...... the close range weapons should be better at close range than the long range ones...................

[violet cosmos]

you're acting like the enemy isn't going to shoot back or move at all

I hate to break it to you, when all the TTK's average around 0.7 seconds against lights, it doesn't matter

[sand monolith]

the ENTIRE light class is based on shooting at someone first. if you fuck up your shots for any reason, you will just be able to leave the fight if you are positioned well

i really dont think it takes a genius to figure out that the long range rifle should not be better at close range than the close range smgs

[strong obsidian]

i think all the weapons are ok

[violet cosmos]

You will rarely be in a situation where the enemy won't just shoot at you and win because their guns kill lights faster than the light can kill them because they have more health. Bonus points if the medium on their team just starts medi beaming the target you had and suddenly they kill you because now there are two people shooting at you and you just get utterly erased before you can even dodge because those classes already kill you in under a second.

Its a good thing that the LH1 is in fact not better than the SMG's unless they're being outranged by it. The SMG's have a far more easy time hitting and killing a light compared to the LH1 at close ranges, you have to either be incredibly good at aiming to make it a fair fight (they kill in similar TTK's) or get incredibly lucky with the hipfire.

Spraying and hoping for headshots will not carry you to a win with the LH1, it will in fact leave you vulnerable to its incredibly long reload and thats a death sentence at close ranges.

[sand monolith]

ok gg you just dont know how to play light to begin with so why even argue

[violet cosmos]

you engage someone from behind, do they

A, take cover and shoot back

B, Run away

C, realize a light is shooting them and skip to shooting you

D, do nothing and die

you are quite literally acting like every opponent you go up against with a Light will be doing nothing to counter you

[sand monolith]

why dont the enemies just react to the LH1, it only kills in under a second

are they stupid maybe?

[violet cosmos]

because it only does if you don't line up your shots and just spray someone down who is standing still

[sand monolith]

ignore the fact LH1 lets you face tank a number of weapons as light because you literally just kill faster

[violet cosmos]

you're just making shit up now

[sand monolith]

you can face tank a famas, AKM, XP-54, V9S, M11, Revolver (bodyshots only,) flamethrower, and KS-23

[violet cosmos]

thats just incorrect

[sand monolith]

wait....... this is actually really balanced...........................

ok test it out in game yourself

[violet cosmos]

its true versus the pistol, and thats it

[sand monolith]

dude is just genuinely wrong 😭

[violet cosmos]

you're literally spreading misinformation because you're a pistol coper

[sand monolith]

ok there is no point in arguing with you on subjective balance if you are wrong on the objective numbers. i wish you the best of luck in your skill issue with the pistol though

[violet cosmos]

all of your numbers are cherry picked examples when you hit all headshots with a weapon, which is impossible during a normal game

[barren dagger]

Wtf is going on here?

[violet cosmos]

someone wants to tell me the VS9 is the weapon all light weapons should be balanced around because only his word is the paragon of balance and nobody else is allowed to say that it actually sucks and is harder to use for no reason compared to its competition

and then he can't fashion and argument beyond "ease of use isn't a balancing strategy" which is false on all fronts

so he resorts to being petty

typical "Light main", wanting the worse class in the game to be even worse than it already is lol

[sand monolith]

LONG STORY SHORT: this guy is literally just wrong about weapon stats and doesn't understand why some weapons are OP

[restive plover]

They can try certain things but if you get blindsided by a light you are probably going to die. Their guns have the fastest times to kill in the game.

Using the lh1 and a medium as an example, it only takes two body shots to reduce the health advantage from 100 to 2. Then it's essentially light vs light but one has much lower DPS than the other.

[sand monolith]

guys if you stand still and take every shot on light..... you might die....................

it is EXTREMELY unfortunate that light has ZERO tools to help with this

[violet cosmos]

this guy pretends that DPS checks in a vacuum are the epitome of balance in a game with all manner of other factors are at play

[sand monolith]

you are the one saying that light is bad because it loses dps checks

[violet cosmos]

because he does when he's not using the LH1 or XP

[sand monolith]

well, ttk checks. but same thing

[sand monolith]

no there are a ton of other factors at play

[violet cosmos]

those output damage in their respective effective ranges without much difficulty when in them, so outside factors matter less aside from chip damage done to you

[amber cloak]

what counts as a light machine gun

[sand monolith]

ignore that the light will be able to hit the medium much easier because the medium is slower and bigger. as well as heavy

and that the medium and heavy will miss more shots on light because the light is smaller and faster

just run at them head on and complain that you die fast on light

[restive plover]

As opposed to heavy machine gun, they are designed to still be operated and carried by a single person and fire normal rifle rounds.

Think m249 vs M2 browning.

[amber cloak]

for the quest what counts

[restive plover]

Oh, m60 and lewis then. They're the only two.

[amber cloak]

oh

😦 ive been playing lite thinking it would acomplish my goals

[restive plover]

Technically those are submachine guns. 🤓 ☝️

Did the next set of circuit challenges drop?

[amber cloak]

no

[restive plover]

Oh.

[amber cloak]

its sad we still have 2 more days

[violet cosmos]

These are all body shot TTK's, and the pistol is shit

have fun coping about how I'm wrong though!

[mellow lodge]

those numbers are wrong though lmao

[violet cosmos]

it will never end

[mellow lodge]

the most up to date weapon stats are this document https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ud7Rdl3AgMw9mmfDwW2LtDMnzZQ9IIhnqSE4ivsaMTs/edit#gid=2136619021

[mellow lodge]

if you gonna bring up statistics at least have them be correct ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[violet cosmos]

even in the spreadsheet, the TTK of the LH1 is still more than the XP

same with the M11

[mellow lodge]

ttk LH1 - 0.6, TTK XP -0.56

[restive plover]

Finally I have access to the zafferman sheet.

Really I guess I could have asked him.

[mellow lodge]

yeah i asked him to give it to me when he completed it

[violet cosmos]

V9S in fact supposedly kills the LH1 faster

[mellow lodge]

no headshots

[violet cosmos]

I've been talking about body shot ttk's this whole time

[sand monolith]

yes if you're terrible the V9S will kill faster

[drowsy osprey]

I love the M11 personally

[sand monolith]

LOL THE LH1 HAS BETTER RANGE THAN THE SNIPER