💣┇weapons-gadgets

[sand monolith]

I know

[supple oracle]

Then what the fuck do you want

[sand monolith]

It should not be buffed because you don’t want to use it for damage lmao

Because then it will be even better for damage

[fleet brook]

It's not a damage tool?

[sand monolith]

It very much can be with the right loadout

[supple oracle]

it can be used as a damage and destruction tool, i primarely used it for destruction

[fleet brook]

I mean it's not an effective one against any enemies with eyes

[supple oracle]

look, Switch it to the Breach charge if that makes you shut up, breach charge is only for destruction and even that sorry ass of a gadget ONLY HAS 1 CHARGE

[sand monolith]

The right way to buff C4 would be to increase it’s destruction radius (not player damage) and to remove the 80% damage nerf when not primed but only for destruction

[sand monolith]

Yep and breach charge is great

[supple oracle]

and C4 does 120 damage when not exploding prematurely, not even 2 C4's can one shot a medium!

[sand monolith]

Good? It’s a gadget.

[supple oracle]

i'm not gonna argue with this guy, he clearly has horrible take and is satisfied with C4 garbage state, OH AND BREACH CHARGE WITH 1 CHARGE TOO

[sand monolith]

You shouldn’t really be punished with instant death for walking somewhere that a heavy happened to left click 30 seconds ago

C4 is great I use it all the time and I am currently diamond 3 with it

[supple oracle]

Good for you, Don't fuckin care

[sand monolith]

If you want C4 buffed you just don’t understand the game

[supple oracle]

then i will continue to use RPG because you clearly helped me see the light of USING THE C4 AS A BUDGET MINE, WOW

i'm off, i can only endure so much stupidity

[sand monolith]

It’s a better mine? You can detonate it manually

[fleet brook]

I just like destruction and I can only get that from the RPG and the destruction shotgun

Which is my non meme heavy is RPG c4 destruction shotgun and sometimes explosive mines

[sand monolith]

Yes this is an issue. C4 could get a purely destruction buff and that would be great

Charge and slam also gives great destruction

[junior ledge]

👍

[opaque lion]

destruction is cool, made me miss out when it was so popular in other games

[neon stump]

Bounce bad is such a fun gadget for movement.

[obtuse cove]

I'm so confused

[misty heron]

I want to see a wall reinforcement gadget where the walls are unable to be broken for a certain amount of time.

[sand monolith]

He realized he was wrong do not worry

[supple oracle]

Do not put words in my mouth little shit

You have done nothing to sway my opinion on keep using RPG for destruction ever since C4 charges got nerfed to 1

all you said was to use C4 as a budget mine that isnt even a real mine, and not to mention despite C4 being a tool you need to place and has a timer to prime, it still does a maximum of 120 damage best case scenario, 20% less damage if exploded prematurely

dont even try to argue how its fair that RPG gets to have 140 damage while C4 damage has already been nerfed HARD to 120

and you tell me to use it as a MINE?, when all i want is 2 charges for arena destruction

I'm done with your shitty "Synergy" argument, if i wanted to use a mine, i would use a actual mine gadget

keep playing heavy with your worthless Mine knockoff, you seem to be happy with its trash state

[sullen raptor]

mosty used for damage

[fleet brook]

Off topic mines are annoying if you shoot the mine it should break not go off

Mines should only go off if stepped on because rn unless you have a glitch grenade mines are a lose lose option

[supple oracle]

even with glitch grenades, mines can still go off if shot or a nearby explosion triggers it

the only thing that can properly "Disarm" the mine is mediums Data reshaper

[copper anchor]

This guy actually has a brain

[supple oracle]

do i?, i swear i already lost enough braincells

[copper anchor]

Yeah I don't like how the C4 defuses when you place it on a throwable object

It's so dumb

[supple oracle]

well,nuke is another topic, i dont miss it

[copper anchor]

Yeah but it was in the trailers

[lavish urchin]

weapons need balance asap

[sand ravine]

weapons OmG WuT IS Th4T

[lavish urchin]

is so true tho dont make fun of me 😦

[supple oracle]

anyway, 6m matchmaking for a casual cashout

what exotic weapons yall would thnk would fit the game

for light i want a THE TAURUS JUDGE "pistol" shotgun

just want something that aint the double barrel

[slim linden]

ong

[wooden steeple]

I’d love to see heavy get a deagle although the new shotgun fills that category

[sand monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/timbersshivered-yikers-gif-23072365

[supple oracle]

What about a Rifle for heavy?

not something small of course

[sand monolith]

wait its almost like this isnt fair and rpg should be nerfed too

[slim linden]

yup

[dapper bear]

I don't think the game should go any farther into long range combat at least with the modes that are available. I am one of those people that thinks that the light sniper is in issue even if it doesn't show up in high rank. There's also the fact that a lot of heavies tools are for up-close contact, and if he was to have a sniper he would have many abilities for him to snipe safely at people without them able to fire back, for instance barricades, bubble shields and goo for instant cover options, there's also the issue that a heavy sniper is harder to get ride of if they are also a cheater, atleast light class cheaters have such a small health pool you could beat them to the kill in some fights.

[supple oracle]

you make good points that shatters my dreams of 4-Bore being a thing

damn, this feeling sucks...

[dapper bear]

we atleast got 6 gadge, even if its crappy, I love the KS-23 it just sucks though

[supple oracle]

6-gauge is not the same as 4-Bore :(

Oh well, it is what it is

you have any wish for a weapon though

[dapper bear]

what about a gadget that uses 4 bore that goes through multiple walls instead of a large radius?

[supple oracle]

What, like a penetrating rifle to hit enemies behind walls?

[dapper bear]

yeah but more like a gun that shoots a body sized hole through 2 to 3 layers of wall

I could send the cash out down 2 floors instead of 1 with that gun

Although the KS-23 would do the same thing with no cool down, but would take 5 seconds to do and and then take another 5 seconds to reload the gun while the enemy team is probably coming down hot.

KS-23 needs a buff really bad

[supple oracle]

wouldnt mind something like that instead of the C4, i just really wanna smash walls off

oh wait, you said body sized walls, i was thinking of a full wall opening...

[dapper bear]

I mean if they buffed the KS-23 that would also to just open up an intire wall.

Just imagine pumping a wall all the way across with 2 shots each reload in 3 seconds as your team readys their guns as you pup all 3 wall segments revealing the entire enemy team as you and your team blast them like a firing squad.

[dapper bear]

I mean if you shoot a wall at a particular angle it would do the trick with the 4 bore

[soft juniper]

I like the KS-23 its still feels way to slow to do anything meaningful in a fight

[supple oracle]

the ks-23 would be my go to for wall destruction if it dint took so long to reload and destroy the wall, even after the buffs to that

i might be asking for too much though

OH SHIT, FINALLY, I CAN EMBED THE 4-BORE GIF

https://tenor.com/view/gun-4-bore-big-gun-gif-2287384251865604126

[tired cedar]

Minigun for heavy.
Fire rate that starts slow and speeds up, make it have lower damage on players but can destroy environment but you'll have to use 2 mags to bring down a building and shoot at the right places.

Akimbo auto pistols for light
Make it so left and right trigger shoot each gun, but both have like only 15 bullets in each

Would be cool to have like an impact type gun for medium.
Semi auto, does lower damage than shoty but also hits players back, like Lucio gun in OW (counter to melee)

[dapper bear]

I think the issue that the gun fased is that it's single damage was too high for the fire rate so they couldn't speed up the pump that fast to make it up, but they also couldn't decrease the wall destruction to much because they didn't want you removing to much wall at once. But I think the real issue outside of the range which should have never been nurfed because it's projectile, is the reload speed which is extreamly slow for a weapon who's dps is not reliant on clip size because of its damage, but in make the reload so slow you can't break walls for crap without running out of shells and having a single light or medium jump you and kill you cause the Dps is literally 120.

[dapper bear]

EXACTLY

[soft juniper]

I also think thanks to powershift APS should get a kinda nerf to it either make its range of effect slightly smaller or give it a limite of things it can destroy before going on a self cooldown before it starts back up again

[edgy wharf]

Please make it so the APS’ coverage radius is not visible to opposing teams. I find it odd enemy intelligence can visually see the radius of your own gadget and know off the bat what to use to counter it.

[tired cedar]

If u use heavy flame it gets well but u have to attack the platform. Or else throw glitch grenade bellow and dissable em all

[soft juniper]

oh another thing about APS I dont think it should be able to destroy things it cant see (through walls)

[soft juniper]

Im talking about ways to nerf it not ways to deal with it I alredy know that but its still sheading light to it

[tired cedar]

Ah okay, I don't think it is OP. Just change ur play style. Like they mustn't get rid of it's circle visibility to enemies (thats how u notcie it)

[soft juniper]

I never said its OP?

and I mostly main Hammer so tis not a problem

[tired cedar]

Ah lol no worries

To be fair powershift is the fun chaos type mode. I feel like the devs use these chaos modes to stress test and get data on improving the main modes and making new ones

[soft juniper]

well even if they dont nerf APS atleat make a rule to not have 5 APS on the platform shits annoying

[tired cedar]

Like having 5 APS on a moving platform that shoots projectiles could be very useful for that

[tired cedar]

I get you, like same here. But I don't take powershift seriously.
I use it to test out guns and do challenges,

I understand that they use these modes to test

Remember the all for one mode and the heavy only.
There were a few crashes, and such whenever too many of explosives were used at the same time. Then this was fixed.

They will likely replace or cycle out powershift for another skirmish type mode at the end of the season

[edgy wharf]

Power shift is full of sweats anyway

[tired cedar]

I mean, I blame good game design.

This is the first game in 5 years that I actually care about in the moment. I am never competitive and never care about wins or ranks, I just wanna have fun
This game someone makes me competitive in the moment and try so hard even in casual modes, yet I don't feel shitty if I lose a match

This game was made for my ADHD lol 🤣

Btw, anyone else feel like custom reload animations are longer than regular. Or is it just a trick of the mind thing cuz more is happening?

[dapper bear]

This is how I think the KS-23 should have gone if we didn't have the issue of keeping it similar to its newest variant
-little to no deviation on the slug even when jumping, most if not all projectile weapons have little to no deviation even while moving, and the inaccuracy makes engagement horrible for the heavy because he cannot get a shot off while dodging bullets himself.
-Give the gun a 3.5 second reload
-make firing rate between 0.625 rps or 0.5
-decrease the damage to 90 per shot (this coupled with the change in rps gives this a dps of 144 to 180) still not as high as most heavy weapons it still kills lights mediums and heavies with the same amount of bullets, but quicker, making the clip size its biggest weakness as it always should have been.
-decrease the range debuff to a flat 30% past 35ft, we don't want to make it the next sniper rifle but we can't let well aimed slugs not be rewarded, it will only really cause the gun 3 shot lights 4 shot mediums and 6 shot heavies, if you can land 3 shots from a direct projectile on a light's hit box past 35ft, you deserve the kill.

also wall damage can stay the same, because the fire and reload speed increase would make it more balanced around 3 shots

[dapper bear]

I think its mostly for realism, but they have to balance it with the game design which is why with the KS-23 that when reloading from empty has this long reload animation at the start but then later on in the animation reloads 2 slugs at once, twice, and then puts the final slug in the normal way. I don't know if there is a difference but all I want is for the reload for the KS-23 to be faster at all times, from empty and from partially full.

By the way, does anyone think that the heavy grenade launcher should have been a specialization instead of a weapon? I feel like its use is only for specific plays, but the rest of the time it doesn't seem to be any good, some would say it is worse then the KS-23 because the KS-23 can be used at short range. But if it where a specialization it's not a bad choice, you have a gun that can lobe fast acting grenades at long distances into an area, perhaps there would be a cool down on ammunition or its reloaded in single shells like the R6S fire launcher or the demo-man grenade launcher but it feels like it would fit a specialization more.

[tired cedar]

Would be nice if it's the same time for a full reload but have like the first bullets to go in faster or something

[sick imp]

it's a very useful denial tool and can be quite lethal for close range, but it's mainly for denial and not for open combat for me. i only use it for certain closed maps ngl

so yeah specialization for the heavy GL is a good idea, though then again it's fine as is

[tired cedar]

Or do 2 at a time for all added ammo and only do one if u reload on 5/6 bullets

[tired cedar]

I think as a weapon it must stay, otherwise u have to give it big cooldown or less ammo or something.

I would much prefer the ability to switch only weapons during tourny. Or have reserve tokens instead of switching between rounds

[dapper bear]

well the issue is that you have to bounce the grenade 2 times in order to explode so for the most part close quarters is highly ill adviced because all classes can kill you within a 2 second time frame which the grenade launcher cannot do reliably.

[dapper bear]

the game isn't balanced around players switching weapons, its why they had it be a reserved invantory instead of a pick anything, exept for powershift, and if they gave you the ability to switch before you die and don't get resed by a teamate there is the issue of perposefully respawing with the right weapon for the job after only a 5 second ressing from a teamate

[tired cedar]

I think the issue with situational weapons is that u stuck with em for a whole round. But they can be very OP if u are in said situation.
Like the things counter other things. But swapping between round can sometimes feel obsolete if others use their reserve.

Reserve token seems like a cool idea, where u can swap 1 peace of equipment each round or save em. That way u can swap in a round to counter a certain thing.

But then make it so u can't in semi or final but still have the between round swapping with no cost

[tired cedar]

Yeah I get you. Maybe make it so only teamwipe?
Like if u teamwipped u can use a token to switch one peach of equiptment in round 1, and 2 in round 2 but u can use 3 in round 2 if u save it

But make it so semis and finals is locked in

[dapper bear]

the reason I thought it should be in specialization is because it's use is so situational it seems more like a gadget or specilization then a weapon, like the rpg if the rpg wasn't broken.

[tired cedar]

Oh I thought u meant gadget. Specialization could work tho' with a cool down after using the mag, rather than how the glu gun works with reloads

[sick imp]

yeah it does need a lot of right conditions to make it OP, though when it does do the thing™️ it feels good.

it's a really useful tool for denying cashout steals, especially if there's verticality involved

and a room.
and a close enough wall/enough floor for it to bounce.
and some other stuff.

yknow what yeah, making it a specialization is a good idea

[dapper bear]

let me ask you this do you think that its useful for most of the round or a small segment of the round? Is it usefull for a good chunk or just a small chunk for instance an rpg is good for a small chunk cause it takes 45 seconds to get another grenade.

[tired cedar]

When the finals has been out long enough to have added many more weapons, that they add the ability to have a secondary weapon. Like gun seporate from melee or something.

I feel like they plan on making this game very dynamic, like in 2 years it will be so different from now and in another 2 years will come back the same or be different again

[sick imp]

it's only useful for a small segment of the round yea.

i mainly play on quickplay and not ranked so that's why i like to keep in reserve

[dapper bear]

if its only usefull for a small segment of the game it should not take up an intire weapon slot that is used for the majority of the game, I think either a gadget with a long cool down or a specilizatoin with a way to decrease its use would be the best way to make it good.

[sick imp]

myea

or make an alt-fire where it's impact detonated with right click but loses it's ability to destroy walls and do less damage

[dapper bear]

The issue with that is that the game is based around having one gun, and multiple gadgets, I don't think having a melee weapon as a side would be a good idea cough cough the sledge hammer cough cough.

[dapper bear]

that my friend is the sticky bomb launcher from tf2

[sick imp]

hey, if it ain't broke don't fix it 😂

[dapper bear]

it never was, it was just miss appropriated

[sick imp]

i meant applying the sticky bomb launcher capabilities to the GL

actually it'd make more sense to replace the medium build GL with a sticky bomb launcher clone

[dapper bear]

have you seen how it feels to play demoman by LazyPurple, its really funny also STICK SPAM

[sick imp]

and god said

"sticky spam the cashout"

[rough carbon]

No way the stickybomb launcher is making it in lol

airbursts would outclass the heavy grenade launcher

[supple oracle]

the grenades having to bounce once to explode is literaly what makes it balanced, if it detonated on impact with the stats it has right now it would be extremely overpowered and a noob tube

plus, i like hitting players without needing line of sight

every weapon should have a clear weakness, just so happens the MGL32 Weakness is very obvious

[rough carbon]

also stickies sort of defeat the purpose of the already neutered c4

How about the dead ringer for the light

[light knot]

That would be nice

[rough carbon]

if they ever rework invis it should be feign death

[final lotus]

Invis doesn't need a rework, stun gun is what is causing problems for everyone, if stun wasn't able to be a combo with invis, there would be less player outrage

[rough carbon]

stun gun should be given a lesser range and release stun on damage

[onyx moat]

Hello, and yes

C4 is pointless

[rough carbon]

remote controlled explosions can stop a cashout on an upper floor if you're nowhere near

[final lotus]

MGL32 is not balanced, it consistently underperforms against heavies other weapons, if it was to explode on impact, it would remain the same and still not be balanced, it would instead over perform, I think a secondary mode is needed for the MGL32, no idea what that would be.

[rough carbon]

I think you just aim at the ground near you thats my strategy, once they close the distance it's over lol

[onyx moat]

It got nerfed a lot though, compared to the other gadets (besides the motion detector) its prettyprett bad. Oops

[rough carbon]

scout takes the demoman, thats how it's always been since the dawn of time

maybe pair the grenades with the charge and slam

so you have a last ditch effort to defend

[onyx moat]

Ya

[supple oracle]

The only secondary fire i wish for MGL32 is Proximity detonation after the grenades travel a certain distance away, so i can atleast deal damage to players that are WAY too vertical

[final lotus]

At a minimum, direct impacts on contestants should deal damage, especially since they don't explode on direct impact and can be quite tricky to land with the slow projectile.

Or what if the alt fire toggled a laser pointer, and whenever a projectile bounces, it bounces in the direction of where you're aiming the laser pointer.

[supple oracle]

Again, it needs to be weak at close range, thats what makes it balanced

you cant just remove its weakness like that

[final lotus]

?!

How is it being removed?

[supple oracle]

helooo?, explodes on direct impacts?

[final lotus]

When did I say it explodes on direct impacts?

[supple oracle]

this?...

[final lotus]

I said direct impacts should deal damage, I never said it should explode, read it again

[supple oracle]

hmm, i do agree it should do some damage

but nothing special, just like 20-30 damage

[simple bronze]

I feel like the Lewis gun needs less recoil

[slim linden]

Yup or a sight

[unique ivy]

do you think we’ll ever see customizable attachments

[slim linden]

Urm

Honestly..... maybe?

[onyx zealot]

nope

[red tide]

Rocket

[viscid depot]

nope. it's already extremely strong

[viscid depot]

saying this again, the m11 needs a nerf. it's STUPIDLY strong

[mellow lodge]

no

[viscid depot]

yes???

it was fine before it got buffed, its way too good now

[restive plover]

[viscid depot]

buff the m1887, not sure what subtle silent nerf it got but it should be brought back to how it was before

[spare robin]

what do you mean subtle nerf?

[viscid depot]

something, not sure. I used it loads a month or two ago and trying it again now.... it's evidently weaker, whether that's the game's hit registration getting worse like someone suggested, or whatever else. it deals damage much less consistently than before

[spare robin]

I don't think they would have nerfed without telling us. But maybe netcode yeah

[viscid depot]

shotguns might need to be buffed to compensate for poor hitreg if they wont fix it

[slim linden]

[supple oracle]

Buffing a weapon due to poor netcode is...not a good reason

[simple bronze]

They could reduce damage and add recoil counter weight if anything the 4 shot automatic shotgun the heavy has needs nerfed

The slug shotgun in my opinion is difficult to use

[surreal ridge]

Even after so many buffs to KS-32 and so many nerfs to SA1216, the SA1216 is clearly better and still kinda meta (just not as enjoyable as it was) and KS-32 is just worse than medium R.357 revolver

[simple bronze]

Either that or fix bullet drop a bit because I swear my reticle is on a target and I just miss ,the revolver also needs a more valid reason to be used

[supple oracle]

revolver should be the best long-range option for medium,second best being Famas

the fact its damage drop-off is so severe is nuts

[simple bronze]

Flamethrower is way too strong as well tbh

[supple oracle]

flamethrower?...

[surreal ridge]

flamethrower feels like it kills faster than it should

[simple bronze]

Like I play power shift and me and my friend jump off the platform after like 6 seconds half our health is gone

[supple oracle]

well, its a flamethrower, why shouldnt it be dangerous at its DESIGNATED range?

[simple bronze]

It just feels to strong as I said this is my opinion I'm venting a bit because of frustrations I've had

Plus I play all classes so it's kinda hard to keep chill and just move on

[supple oracle]

well, flamethrower has limited range, maybe play with that in mind

as for melee user, you're not winning against a flamethrower unlesa you have your teams support and you get the drop on on the heavy

[simple bronze]

Melee feels amazing when you get a kill tbh I'm a ex cod player so it's a relief to actually enjoy this game

Does anyone feel as if the xp submachine gun needs a reload buff by a little bit?

[supple oracle]

No

[simple bronze]

Fair it's strong but when you fall back and someone's chasing that reload tends to kill ya

[supple oracle]

if a light with all of its invisibility,dash and grapple, alongside invis bomb, gateway ,and still dies when they have these tools avaiable to them, they deserve to die

[simple bronze]

Ok wow lol can we agree the gateway shouldn't have to be interacted with via button click to go through though?

[supple oracle]

Hmm...i do not understand what you mean

you mean with a mouse click?

[simple bronze]

I'm a console player ps5

But yes in terms of that too

[supple oracle]

wait, in consoles the moment you touch gateway you immediately teleport?

[simple bronze]

No I'm asking if we should all be be able to

[supple oracle]

Ah, im blind, i dint see the "Shouldn'T"

[simple bronze]

It's a portal practically you shouldn't have to click or press a button to interact with it I feel like it should be more seamless at least imo it's Ok BTW happens to the best of us

[supple oracle]

hmm,i would be fine with that, but only if the gateway could be destroyed with bullets or explosives

[simple bronze]

Or just reduce how long it stays on the map

Why not both actually

[supple oracle]

the issue i have with your suggestion is when a light could just "Block" a cashout with 2 gateways, so youre never really able to interact with the cashout

and sometimes the steal needs to happen when the clock is running out

[simple bronze]

Make the area close to cash out radius immune to the gateway like prevent it only a small area to prevent said looping

[supple oracle]

feels like too much work just so you dont need to press a button to use it...

[simple bronze]

I guess I'm use to the cod mindset so it's a bit harder for me to adapt

I just need alot of practice

[drowsy osprey]

Gateway feels super clunky to me

[supple oracle]

CAREFUL, you might alert the horde!

👀

they dint heard that, youre good

[drowsy osprey]

Oh no what does that mean

[simple bronze]

People tend to defend this game strongly I don't blame its going places

[supple oracle]

some believe it replaces the grappling hook

i for one, don't agree with that

[drowsy osprey]

hmm yeah i dont think i do either

[simple bronze]

Is grapple hook better than dash in your opinion it's faster but exposes you a bit longer

[drowsy osprey]

I prefer grapple personally

[supple oracle]

not my opinion, but general is that Invis and dash are straight up must have

i prefer grapple for verticality

[simple bronze]

The high ground

[drowsy osprey]

also you can toss yourself super far with grapple

[supple oracle]

which is why it hurts my soul when i see a sniper light NOT using grapple, basically not taking advantage of his weapons strenght...

[simple bronze]

I use invisibility personally

The cloak is op

[drowsy osprey]

I dont like the way you have to play with invis

[simple bronze]

Slow and steady?

[drowsy osprey]

ratty

[simple bronze]

Anyone can be ratty

[supple oracle]

the only time i use invis is with dagger

[drowsy osprey]

tbf using anything but invis with dagger is pain

[supple oracle]

which, i havent touched in a big while

some use dagger with dash to facestab

[simple bronze]

I swear when I attempt to hit a backstab it don't work

[supple oracle]

i honestly find that playstile abhorent and too sweaty for my liking

[supple oracle]

welcome to Melee aim assist

[drowsy osprey]

dagger is fun when it works but i hate trying to get value out of it

[supple oracle]

i just wished dagger had sword levels of damage on its normal swing

[simple bronze]

My name tag turned orange?

[supple oracle]

you yapped enough, so you leveled up

[simple bronze]

Ah

[drowsy osprey]

i feel like dagger would be super obnoxious if it could do that

and getting oneshot when you arent paying attention is already mildly annoying lol

[supple oracle]

id rather get backstabbed fairly (not those dash stab) knowing the dude earned that because i was being a moron not paying attention

than a little goblin sword light just dancing around phashing through me constantly

if the dude can backstab me, he earned that shit

[drowsy osprey]

tbf it is pretty hard to get to that level with sword since most guns shit on melee

[simple bronze]

Could attachments be a possibility I hope not but at the same time it'd be interesting

[drowsy osprey]

idk how theyd balance that

[simple bronze]

Imagine a strobe light attachment

[supple oracle]

i wished i could take off the scope of some of the weapons, im more of a ironsight enthusiast

[simple bronze]

Holy...I'm not the only one omg

[drowsy osprey]

i think id like the famas more with a different optic

[simple bronze]

Red dots do hit different though

[drowsy osprey]

although i do like the famas a lot regardless

[simple bronze]

The iron sight on the revolver needs a bit of a better look

[drowsy osprey]

the revolver feels so weird to use, like the irons dont line up with where your shots go

[simple bronze]

Yep I agree

[supple oracle]

thats because they dont

atleast, i dont know if embark fixed it yet

[drowsy osprey]

lol i thought so one time i had a headshot that so blatantly didnt miss and to this day i still think about it

[strange fox]

rpg with flamethrower is deadly

[devout hawk]

flamethrower op

[reef sage]

https://tenor.com/view/stranger-things-fire-flame-gif-14920648

[supple oracle]

the amount of "Tips n tricks" videos on the MGL32 that are just so bad is so goddamn ridiculous

One dude said the MGL32 is the opposite of CL-40, Where CL-40 is good at killing players, the MGL-32 Is good at destroying the enviroment and isnt really a gun to frag with

yes, a Grenade launcher that needs its nades to bounce once to explode was really meant for ARENA DESTRUCTION when the very last thing you want to do is destroy the very walls and floors that allow you to bounce the grenades to begin with

i can't with these tubers, that alone tells me they dont know how to play the weapon

what would i give to make MGL32 Have no destruction capabilities with the exception of Debrie destruction

[restive plover]

it would be enough to reduce the fuel tank from 30 to 20 and increase the reload speed by 3 seconds

[limber iris]

What is the best weapon Build for light to Play

[devout hawk]

naaah man, it would be up then

[supple oracle]

i cant give you the weapons and gadgets, but i can say:

Stick with your team, don't rush in alone unless you're absolutely certain your team can follow up

and REVIVE your teammates, you have the best mobility and escape tools as light to grab their action figure and run away

however, if your team refuses to stick together or do the objective

fuck em, leave the match

[limber iris]

Ok thanks

@supple oracle

[vague monolith]

Every time I use the revolver I feel like 1 in 6 of my shots just disappear

[devout hawk]

and remember - your team is as fast as your slowest teammate

[narrow garnet]

Always use the gateway

[sharp field]

Whats the point of 93r, it has less dps than V9S, it has less damage per mag than V9S and it has lower range. What is it good at?

[forest path]

My thought on the KS-23 is when played correctly, it's good, does good damage both short and medium range, I think a slight buff to its reload time would make it perfect.

[restive plover]

Nothing.

Almost the exact same gun as the famas, but less accurate and on light. And the famas is already bad.

[viscid depot]

slug shotgun needs actual sights to use, the sa126 is already super weak imo, the m11's recoil is already high but the damage should just be reverted to what it was in like january/february, it was balanced then

[fleet brook]

Heavy needs more options for destruction

I run rpg not because it deals damage but it like one of two decent destruction gadgets

[verbal apex]

also got dat charge

[summer crater]

KS-23, MGL32, C4, explosive mine, RPG, Sledgehammer, Charge & Slam? More destructibility items in the class would be cool but how would you implement it to balance well with the existing options (perhaps a new specialisation?)

[verbal apex]

and sledgehammer

[sullen tree]

dashstabbing takes a lot of precise timing, lol.

More skill than you'd expect. Just jump back and to the side when you see them coming and it'll miss 90% of the time.

[fleet brook]

Explosive mine isn't a useful immediate destruction thing I also meant gadgetry

Sorry didn't specify gadgets

[summer crater]

Ahh gotcha

Although mine is useful immediately, if you blow it up after placing it it bypasses the setup timer right?

[verbal apex]

I think 2 solid gadget destruction tools is fair. Especially with heavy weapons and one of their specializations just demolishing building

[fleet brook]

And explosive mine feels wonky to use as a destruction item

[verbal apex]

Does heavy flamethrower effectively get disabled in a smoke cloud?

[summer crater]

Don’t think so

[verbal apex]

sad

[fleet brook]

I just want an alternative to using the rpg and c4

Destruction heavy feels repetitive if that makes sense I want more ways to destroy

[verbal apex]

makes sense

[fleet brook]

It's one of the main and only reasons I play /got into heavy

[verbal apex]

I do mostly play Heavy for the terrain destruction and creation (goo gun)

[digital saddle]

was thinking the same thing. this needs to be a slight buff to smokes

[summer crater]

Yeah I get you, Embark really knocked it out of the park with the new gadgets and Dematerialiser so I’d trust them to find a creative way to add a destructive gadget or specialisation to Heavy

Personally I main Light but I love playing Heavy in casual modes

I despise healbotting mediums though lol

[verbal apex]

I just picked up Medium, pretty fun

[sullen tree]

I mean sledge is good for that

[fleet brook]

Sledge is melee very easy to get kited although it is my "swap" weapon when I die to the main one is KS-23

[verbal apex]

Sledge goo gun is pretty fun, but I'm still learing how to master it

just rough if you face a dash ranged light

[supple oracle]

I dont really care if it takes still and timing, i still find that abhorent and cannot bring myself to respect dash stabbers

[sullen tree]

then all I can say is that that's cringe 😎 👍

[supple oracle]

agree to disagree

[fleet brook]

It's impossible to track and annoying but that just sums up light

[rigid fulcrum]

wsg

[supple oracle]

this dude account has been created today and he decides to join this very server, what are the chances its a bot

[viscid depot]

remove throwing knives icl

[supple oracle]

speaking of bots, has anyone notice a strange amount of players that start the match AFK, then proceed to just walk around the arena doing absolutely nothing to engage in the game?, dude trying to walk off a clif!

i can count both on my hands the amount of times this happend

[viscid orchid]

Don't you dare. I respect the right to play suboptimally and have fun.

[viscid depot]

its not fun dying constantly because its useless

[supple oracle]

its not?

[viscid depot]

you can kill max 1 person with throwing knives before you get melted

[supple oracle]

you mean the typical light fights?

[viscid depot]

huh?

[supple oracle]

well,more specifically fighthing head to head instead of flanking

[viscid orchid]

Light is pretty good at getting melted. Throwing knives have a very unique sound but it's pretty subdued compared to bullets. Pretty stealthy. Pretty good for throwing at distracted enemies. Pretty much flanking.

[fleet brook]

One of the few weapons with an alt fire the only one that isn't melee as well

[viscid depot]

m11 is stupidly strong, nerf it to how it was before

[swift jetty]

i pray on flamethrower players downfalls

[winter ivy]

The lights have one good weapon and here we are, complaining about the one good one

[viscid depot]

buff the fcar a tiny bit. i know it used to be really OP but the solution isnt making it useless

[granite sedge]

I would like to see new weapons across all classes

that is all

[umbral drum]

it is NOT useless

[vague monolith]

Is the C4 still one charge? That made me stop using the item altogether

[viscid depot]

its objectively worse than the famas and akm

[fleet brook]

Why it sucks

[umbral drum]

skill issue?

[fleet brook]

Yes

[viscid depot]

fcar users explaining why having the worst recoil out of basically anything and reloading every 3 seconds is effective:

[umbral drum]

no way you just said fcar has the worst recoil it has like zero recoil besides a little down and left in the middle

[vague monolith]

I'm cool with C4 doing very little damage, the 2 charges made it have a reason to exist

As is it's the rpg with no range and no offensive capabilities

[viscid depot]

it has CRAZY vertical recoil

[fleet brook]

How much damage does a breach charge do?

[umbral drum]

just pull down and you got the covered but it has less visual recoil making it much easier to hit consistant headshots

[umbral drum]

you must have never played a game like cs the recoil on the fcar is like cod level recoil

[hazy spear]

Gadget Idea!

I have an Gadget idea Inspired by an Idea from @zealous timber , this idea has two variants of it.

Tripwire
A gadget that dose nearly no Damage but slows Enemies down for a bit if they stumble over it

It would make them walk 30-40% slower after Running over it (it doesn't trigger if you walk over it).
in the span of 2 or 3 seconds they would "Recover" from that and would walk Normally again
in the 2 to 3 second Recovery the Enemy can still walk and move normally, but 30-40% slower.

it would have 100 HP and would only be Placeable on the Ground,
its main use would be Against people following you or annoying lights.

Other Version

Tripwire activation
a Ability/gadget that can't slow Enemies down,
it is used to activate things from further away instead and could come with 4-6 explosives (those explosives would be focused to make environmental damage).

the tripwire can get connected with other gadgets/Explosives that can get placed in the arena,
if an enemy goes over the tripwire then it activates anything that is connected with it.
the gadgets it gets Connected to, need to be 5-10 meters away from the tripwire to get activated by it.
It could also only disappear after the second time you re-spawn (if it didn't get destroyed/activated by an Enemy).

if you do it right you could put explosives on the pillars of an building and connect them with the tripwire and wait for an Enemy to go over it and letting the whole building collapse over them.

the Tripwire itself would have 300-400 HP and the gadgets that are connected with it can only get Activated by the Tripwire itself,
it would be used tho change the map layout in a match and to get rid of buildings that are hard to get up to.

Or ?

[umbral drum]

first one sounds like better stun

[hazy spear]

would only be useful if someone runs over it tho

[fleet brook]

Stun is already annoying

But stun affects aim as well right?

[umbral drum]

yeah but chokes would be good for it

[final lotus]

My goodness a bit off topic but I love your guys' pfps

[hazy spear]

it would only make you slower for 2 to 3 seconds (the tripwire)

[umbral drum]

stun gun stops you from aiming down sight

[fleet brook]

A brief slow is good it feels like it'd be a medium gadget and a more site setup medium

So it'd probably be paired with mines and the guardian turret

[final lotus]

What about for heavy too?

[zealous timber]

20m is alot

[final lotus]

Since he's all about setting up defenses

[fleet brook]

That would work and you couldn't self combo with a turret

[umbral drum]

multi class ability?

[hazy spear]

it could be universall like the goo grenade

[zealous timber]

Also thanks for crediting me

[umbral drum]

tbh not the biggest fan of the second ability but really like the idea of a slow

[hazy spear]

the first version idea is to stun annoying enemies that Run over it tho, not walk.
(as a lil info)

[umbral drum]

could even give them like barbed wire to slow and do like tick dmg

[hazy spear]

the second version was a random idea

[final lotus]

I had a few new gadget ideas

[umbral drum]

i think im just too dumb to understand it or what it would be like in game

[final lotus]

Problem with trying to rebalance or add new ideas is that while on paper they may sound good/bad, you never know with proper testing.

[umbral drum]

honestly wish we got more gadgets and weapons beside on new season

[hazy spear]

the 1st version is to slow down enemies that run over it, so they cant run for a short amount of time.
the 2nd one is for destroying large parts of the map, but only if an enemy triggers it and the explosive its connected to aren't destroyed yet.

[umbral drum]

second one sounds super niche but idk

[zealous timber]

Ok but 20 meters is too op

[hazy spear]

i said 10-20 meters, and i don't have the way meters work in this game in my head

[zealous timber]

And 2nd one would be good if you placed gas mine and slowed them in the gas

[hazy spear]

nah, gas is too OP

[zealous timber]

A door is about 1,5 meters, so id say less than 5 meters

[hazy spear]

you do know that the 10-20 meters are the meter the explosives need to be Away from the tripwire, not Near, right?

[vague monolith]

I don't really know how many more weapons and gadgets you could add before it starts to bloat the game

[zealous timber]

Bro 20 meters is a whole hallway

[hazy spear]

DAMN really?!

[zealous timber]

Almost yea

[fleet brook]

Variety is good and no matter the options it would start to make balance a bit difficult

[zealous timber]

Most hallways are 20-30m

[fleet brook]

But the whole point of the finals is making a load out based around how you want to play

[hazy spear]

yea

[zealous timber]

You would need redstone for that shii to work lmao

[vague monolith]

I don't know man if we wind up with a bunch of useless shit like the data reshaper it would be a big problem for new players to parse through what's worth using

[zealous timber]

Has anyone actually used data reshaper?

[fleet brook]

Data reshaper is the only thing that can get rid of mines+ enemy turrets

[vague monolith]

At melee range

[fleet brook]

It'd be better if it was on the light it would make my spy build whole

Also aps turrets

[zealous timber]

Doesn't make sense for light

[fleet brook]

Gadgetry destruction

[vague monolith]

It just doesn't really make sense in general

[fleet brook]

Sapper from TF2 essentially but better

[zealous timber]

Light is for speed and dmg per sec, not going in and changing a turret while getting shot

[vague monolith]

Melee mine remover instead of a defib, Zipline or grenade isn't a good choice no matter how you spin it

[fleet brook]

Light is this games spy

More like spy+scout

[zealous timber]

Spy is from TF2

Not THE FINALS™

[fleet brook]

Invis?

Flank into site invis destroy turret/aps get out

[hazy spear]

i changed the Tripwire Description a bit.

*** " It would make them walk 30-40% slower after Running over it (it doesn't trigger if you walk over it).
in the span of 2 or 3 seconds they would "Recover" from that and would walk Normally again
in the 2 to 3 second Recovery the Enemy can still walk and move normally, but 30-40% slower. " ***

[vague monolith]

Cloak would give it some utility since it would be possible to get close enough to use it, but with how situational the item is I still don't see it getting much use

[fleet brook]

Like I said

[zealous timber]

And after that? Youd be dead asleep in one sec homie

[fleet brook]

Aps turrets have been terrorizing me they are very common

Turrets in general

Mines!

[vague monolith]

Especially since the biggest danger of mines are the lasting effects after they detonate, but smoke and pyro both counter this while still having a use otherwise

[fleet brook]

Light can do get in get out plays and if not you have a gun trade

[supple oracle]

man, i hate quick cash, yet i have to play it cause currently no one is playing cashout

[fleet brook]

Just destroying mines without setting off there effect especially because teams usually stop looking at angles once they've sufficiently stuffed it with mines

[vague monolith]

Cash out loses all of it's appeal when you don't have to worry about placing

[zealous timber]

I main sword, also it makes more sense on medium, cuz you can just "dematerialize, reshape, rematerialize"

[vague monolith]

Like coasting to get second feels like a wasted match instead of an easy placement, which kills the fun of it

[fleet brook]

It makes no sense on medium because medium can't get in range to fully utilize it

[zealous timber]

Then tell me how my brother does it?

[vague monolith]

It would be mad funny if light consistently for mediums hand me downs lol

[fleet brook]

I don't know your brother ??

[zealous timber]

You just have, Skill issue™

[hazy spear]

aps turrets need an update to make them not work over walls/ground or a reload time after destroying 4-5 Enemy throwables

[fleet brook]

Me who plays heavy and light who doesn't even mainly use the data reshaper except for fun?

Sure bud

[zealous timber]

No 4 cuz it only has 4 nozzles

[vague monolith]

APS guarantee a stale cashout that's my entire opinion on that thing

[fleet brook]

It having poor quality of life has no effect on me

[zealous timber]

Thats what ive been saying, you don't know much about it but still say "you can't do it"

[hazy spear]

i accidentally deleted the 4 XD

[zealous timber]

Oh lol

@fleet brook shut up and go on about your day i don't have time

[fleet brook]

I catch People out trying to use it and for a medium to touch util

Usually (if placed smartly)

They have to make it into site without getting shot by me the medium or the heavy/light

It suffers from the problem you said lights would have with worse escape options?

[fleet brook]

Also your time isn't valuable if you've spent this much of it discussing a gadget in a videogame and your defense against quality of life updates is your brother uses it

Clod behavior

[hazy spear]

"Clod behavior"
WHAT IN THE STEVEN UNIVERSE?!

[fleet brook]

Clod means stupid or dolt / blockhead

That's probably a Steven universe reference but I never watched that show so idk?

[hazy spear]

i know, but steven universe was the only time i heard that

[fleet brook]

Makes sense

[vague monolith]

No it's good because it's not good don't call it useless just because it's useless

[fleet brook]

That sentence hurts my brain

Oh it's ironic my bad?

Is sledge a good heavy weapon gave it up because it felt odd when I started heavy determining if I should pick it up again?

[supple oracle]

I wouldn't really recommend sledge heavy without Mesh shield at the beggining

if you begin to feel confident with sledge later on, they say to try charge & slam after

[sleek pond]

🙏 goo gun to lock people its less effective after the goo changes tho

[supple oracle]

i dont use goo gun to lock people, i use goo gun for fortifications and creating ladders & bridges

such uncivilized way of using it to lock people...

[fleet brook]

I use goo gun on power shift that's about it

[swift jetty]

light class gets eaten alive by it and all you do with the flamethrower hold and shake your mouse around till someone dies

[sleek pond]

if you are only using it for those then its kinda mid there is alot more to it

[supple oracle]

Pfffft, whatever you say

[hazy spear]

Professionals have standards

[fleet brook]

Most heavy weapons absolutely destroy lights and most dots do as well

You could try utilizing buildings

Turning corners hoping through window depending on specialization grapple hook out or try and dash away

Invis is completely useless because of the dot tho

[swift jetty]

i found a couple ways to counter it, i usually just long distance them with the LH1, but if its close range i invis and repeat lol

kind of cheap but it works

[fleet brook]

Fair

Oh yeah forgot to recommend longer range dualing

[supple oracle]

you mean dueling?

[fleet brook]

Even if it's just chip damage if you can damage them and they can't damage you it's a winning situation in my book

[fleet brook]

Yes sorry

[sharp dagger]

Fortnite battle pass?

[supple oracle]

I want to love the KS-23, but i hate this shoulder fire aim

[sleek pond]

everything about it is so trash its crazy

[drifting bronze]

same

[modest dagger]

what do yall run light medium or heavy

[alpine fern]

Light goated

[modest dagger]

faxx

[eager fractal]

Light, op
Medium, less op
Heavy, ass, but fun to play when it works

[latent coral]

Question: is there a way to put more recoil on a gun?

[modest dagger]

yea if yhu got stick drift

or jus cant aim

[latent coral]

Oh I can aim, is just that the recoil on like a smg annoys me

[wicked apex]

Can we all agree that the FAMAS is complete ASS?? Probably the worst gun I’ve ever shot in any FPS game.

[slim yacht]

How it is right now I totes agree but man when it first launched the recoil pattern on it was 👌

Super hard to control now but again before the changes it was viable competitively against the FCAR especially at range buuuut up close not so much lol

[onyx zealot]

I think famas is the best medium rifle by far 😭

[graceful pine]

Does anyone actually like the new defibrillators? It’s so freaking annoying to just stand there like a clown not being able to do anything

[tacit cairn]

Wym?

[graceful pine]

I mean this new respawn mechanic where you get rebuilt is rubbish! I miss the old defibs where you instantly respawned

[hollow forum]

hmm

[tacit cairn]

How would you suggest a balance for defib? It was pretty op and v annoying going against medium 3-stacks with og defib

[graceful pine]

I mean there is a cooldown on them so I can’t imagine they were too gamebreaking?

[tacit cairn]

Not too gamebreaking, just a bit unbalanced. I don't think defib should be an insant get-outta-jail-free card, the instant res was busted

Like season 1 mercy res from overwatch

[graceful pine]

I never felt like they were unbalanced, now they just feel damn near useless! Especially when a teammate revives u in the middle of a fight and you can just stand there and spread your cheeks waiting to have the bullets rain on you

[small flicker]

your teammate can pick up your statue and move it. if your teammate revives you in the middle of a fight thats just on them

for the most part i like the new defib because it gives you a chance to look around before you get back in

[graceful pine]

Yeah I know but do you think they do? Noo! I definitely prefer the old defib, just sprinting straight back into the chaos

[small flicker]

there were a lot of times i revived someone who was doing something like eating food or drinking not expecting to be revived and then they would scramble their hands back to their mouse and kb but not before they died again lol

unfortunate your teammates dont move your statue but thats just the nature of quickplay

[graceful pine]

Lol yeah ur right I had that happen a few times too! But that made it so you had to be more focused on what was going on, even when u were dead! but it seems like I’m alone on missing the old defibs so I guess we’ll stick with the new ones😅

[small flicker]

i mean i liked instant defib too but like someone else said, it was too unbalanced

at least we got more hp as a trade off

now all we need is for it to refill our ammo upon respawn

[fleet brook]

Good range for a shotgun

And decent destruction

[small flicker]

yeah the ks23 seems like its niche is arena destruction over getting kills

[fleet brook]

Perfect for my play style

But decent destruction decent range and in a fire fight it can kinda get the job done

[small flicker]

if i want to destroy the map and destroy lights, i use the sledgehammer

[robust token]

best weap for med = FCAR?

[onyx zealot]

its a great nerf, before if you had 3 meds and 2 died, you could get your whole team up in a second if both statues were nearby. This and the fact that having the player "rebuild" after being defibed* means the medium must actually bring the statue to safety / in good positioning instead of previously where the medium could defib with little worries of positioning

[vague monolith]

Dude you can swap weapons before you respawn, and you can aim before you respawn. So like if you see you're in a chaotic situation you have a couple seconds to plan

[onyx zealot]

I see fcar used a ton, I personally prefer famas.
fcar to be used efficiently you need to be pretty good at compensating the recoil

[graceful pine]

I get what u mean but that argument is like saying healing beams are too op because a team can be near a wipeout with everyone at 1 ho but then they heal each other!

[onyx zealot]

if this was in response to me, it also gives the enemies plenty of time to get ready for your respawn. That and a medium cant defib someone and have them immediately available to both tank damage and deal damage, now the medium stays solo for a bit allowing the enemies to finish them off before having to deal with defib teammate

[onyx zealot]

on a much smaller scale sure? defib brings back teammates from the dead, dead vs being low hp is a super large difference

[vague monolith]

Nah it's basically the perfect nerf, it's just as useful but not as mindless

[onyx zealot]

yea I think it's a great nerf

[graceful pine]

Well I guess I’m alone on preferring the old defibs then! It just felt like it actually served a purpose back then! Now you need to move the statue to safety and if you’re already in a safe spot why even use the defibs? I think the old mechanic had you more focused on what was happening when u were dead because u knew that in a split second u could be back in the game jumping straight in to the chaos!

[vague monolith]

It makes using the defib way cooler, it's not fire and forget now it's up to the defib user to make a safe revive

[boreal laurel]

FWIW I always used to take the statues to safety even when we had the old defibs, and I still do today. The main reason is because you spawn in with half health (1/3 back in the day) and usually low on ammo. I don’t want to get my teammate insta-killed

[onyx zealot]

if both teammates are you dead, you can defib one and res the other.

If you're for example, holding a cashout and a dead teammate is nearby, you can defib them then go deal with guarding cashout

It still has some very very important uses and is still one of medium's best utility

now of course a nerf is a nerf, but the new nerfed defibs just makes the game more fair & makes defibs take a bit more brainpower than they used to

[tacit cairn]

Good point

[graceful pine]

Well the problem is that after u defibs him and went back to the cashout, an enemy saw your teammate rebuild so now he’s gonna camp there with his crosshair on ur teammates head so as soon as he respawns he’ll get killed!

[onyx zealot]

I mean, sounds fair no? (also your teammate should be looking at ways to deal with that while they're respawning)

[strong blaze]

git gud

[vague monolith]

While that's going on ready a shot, or aim a Zipline, or be ready to get rid of the floor under you

[graceful pine]

U can’t reload when ur rebuilding right? So what are u supposed to do, throw a goo grenade in his face?

[onyx zealot]

yes actually, that would work

[graceful pine]

Awesome, will be throwing nama tama goo grenades after I get revived, will get back to you on success rates

[compact linden]

APS turret XP are soo bad. why only 50 per projectile? Other gadgets level up 3x faster with 1.5 - 2k xp per decent match, while aps gets a maximum of 500

Not even powershift works properly, either you dont get on the platform or you have 2 other aps turrets taking away 2/3 of the projectiles

[normal ice]

I feel like the Vanish Bomb takes forever to level up, too. Could just be me though

[glad hollow]

How do we earn hifi boom box

[rain geyser]

You have immunity frames
The problem lies in getting revived in the middle of multiple enemies

I feel like it's in a much healthier place now, I've been revived a lot less in sticky situations
One thing I'd change is the hologram having a hitbox
It's really annoying when it just snaps my melee autoaim towards it and soaks up melee hits

[errant onyx]

I so desprately want an option to turn off the melee auto aim -- its so frustrating, I play dagger semi-frequently and on dagger it just feels especially awful. Having a backstab lined up after dropping into a couple people and watching helplessly or trying to fight it as the autoaim turns you around to hit the player behind you just feels awful.

[robust token]

yeah

[vague monolith]

The amount of times I would swing the sledge at a guy on the cash box just to snap to the guy next to him

[eager python]

LG5/QLU11 as another gadget for heavy would be cool, kinda like RPG, just make it one shot with a timer

[lucid wren]

does someone know if devs are planning to add some day diamond gadgets?

or gold/platinum

[hidden totem]

hey question

do you get a golden m60 when you get to gold rank?

i just got G4 and I thought I would get the M60

[surreal ridge]

you will get it when season 3 starts

[hidden totem]

[drifting cape]

does the FAMAS count as a marksman rifle?

[subtle isle]

Medium needs a better mele

[dawn pagoda]

lf1 med heal d+

[wind dock]

And decent destruction

[wind dock]

they need 25 less hp, theyre essentially light heavys

[dawn pagoda]

lf1 med plat healer

[mellow lodge]

-lfg

[raven finch]

<:thefinals:1108025386081714196> LFG CHANNELS

Europe:
#lfg-eu-casual
#lfg-eu-ranked

North America:
#lfg-na-casual
#lfg-na-ranked

Asia:
#lfg-asia-casual
#lfg-asia-ranked

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#lfg-oce-casual
#lfg-oce-ranked

Brazil (South America):
#lfg-sa-casual
#lfg-sa-ranked

Go to id:customize to show/hide specific channels.

[restive plover]

Give heavy a new automatic in season 3

[sick imp]

season 3 heavy: goo gun now deals suffocating damage if shot at the head

[restive plover]

Good idea

[sick imp]

insert that one kingdom come GIF

[restive plover]

No please it's already annoying.

[fading crater]

Its all in distance. Light has upper hand over flamethrower, coz with extra speed he can easily avoid heavy's range

[lavish gate]

MMMPPPPPHHHHHPHHHH

[sudden depot]

Does anyone know if that new sidearm skin has unique animations or sounds 👀 It looks so cool but I'm hesitant to get it rn, curious if it has anything special about it though

[ivory flax]

No matter how accurate ks-23 with this buff its still garbage because you still lose even if you land your shots with such poor DPS. Its high risk no reward gun only good as wall breaking tool but heavy already have plenty of them.

[hexed plover]

it's a burst damage weapon, if you are in cover during the "cooldown" between shots then you deal way more damage for sure. I will say though, that that situation is unlikely to happen due to the nature of how fights happen in the finals, and heavy has a very slow acceleration anyways so idk how well that would work, maybe crouching up and down behind a wall would work

I think it deserves to be able to break walls in 2 shots and have a faster reload

[ivory flax]

Nobody in ranked uses it for a reason and they will still ignore it. You have disadvantage at all ranges with it. 2 shots + melee leaves mid with 10 hp is just a joke

[hexed plover]

yea I completely agree with you, it's really bad compared to M60, lewis and sa12

[hexed plover]

@ivory flax dunno if you read this

[ivory flax]

faster reload doesnt fix issue of low dps

the issue is you are not rewarded for landing shots with hardest to use weapon of heavy class

[hexed plover]

the faster reload would give it more wall breaking utility

adding to those "2 shot destroys" maybe it should also have AOE damage on impact

so it doenst just to 1mm holes lol

maybe if it also had AOE dmg on players it would be better? but I dont know if you could make it viable and not frustrating to play against

[ivory flax]

Its slug shotgun so it should not be AOE imo. It just feels weak and unforgiving which is just sad for 23 mm shotgun. Its projectile but it has drop off, in close combat you lose cos poor dps, no headshots. There is no room for skill expression if you just lose even if you dont miss. No shot + charge combo, no shot+melee combos. Using it in ranked is just griefing in its current state

[hexed plover]

I don't see any reason for realism in games. especially one where you are literally in a vr world, so, why not do crazy ideas like make a slug shotgun have explosive bullets? I'm sure you could make an explosive slug anyways. it's a utility weapon, so it could never be as strong as the other weapons, given it also has the utility of breaking surfaces. (although it takes ages to do so, I think it deserves to be way faster) I agree with you it also should be able to headshot

[loud mural]

If we're talking about the slug shotgun how about making it a not-slog shutgun (entirely) ?
Make the first shot be, say, dragon's breath for some extra fire damage and the rest be slug. This way you can just reload your first shot if you want to do more fire damage

[hexed plover]

I think that just defeats the purpose of making a projectile weapon

[ivory flax]

my point is it just needs some number buff

[civic forum]

Hi
what is current situation of 93R, is it Body:24 & Head:36?
and is it get buffed already?

[elder portal]

The stun gun is good as it it rn! There is no need to nerv it. If you want to do something to it buff it!

[loud mural]

noooo haha

[supple oracle]

F-CAR NERF WHERE?!?!

[elder portal]

It’s solid as it it rn

[supple oracle]

NOT EVEN A SINGLE WORD ABOUT IT

[lone lake]

I don't think the FCAR needs a further buff tbh. The increased recoil and damage dropoff have already solved the long range beaming issue. Other than that, it plays like an assault rifle typically should.

nerf** not buff sorry

[supple oracle]

You clearly do not play enough to understand recoil nerf is not a real nerf

[lone lake]

I am D4

[supple oracle]

the gun still does too much damage with its firerate

D4 and you still oblivious to its state

cant make this up

[loud mural]

The FCAR plays fine. I still enjoy the AK more even today so I don't think they need to be balanced. and the recoil change has made an impact, the FCAR use has dropped significantly because of it since people don't know how to sway left and bank right lmao

[lone lake]

No, I'm trying to have a respectful conversation about the state of the weapon. Which is something that you apparently struggle with. Balancing the fire rate or damage would make it play super similarly to the AK, which would negate the effectiveness of having two different weapons in the first place

[supple oracle]

im not gonna have any respectful conversation anymore because its already been too many patches and embark HAS NOT NERFED THE F-CAR WHERE IT ACTUALLY MATTERS

its getting fucking tiring waiting for a nerf to a completely busted weapon

[loud mural]

cry harder

[supple oracle]

FAMAS shouls have been the second best "long range" weapon, but F-CAR damage and firerate still havent been touched

[loud mural]

don't post like that if you don't want to have a normal ocnversation. go throw your caps lock in #👂┇game-feedback

[lone lake]

Fr, opened up with disrespect straight out of the gate

[supple oracle]

aint talking to you, piss off

[lone lake]

[median olive]

No need to be toxic. Please understand people do not have to agree

[iron tulip]

data reshaper is so much fun on platform now

[sweet bridge]

I wonder if the new VS9 skin have any sound differences like the retro M11 skin.

[iron tulip]

the increased range was deinfitly needed

[civic forum]

why 93r is close-ranged weapon, but has bad hip fired?

damage falloff is making this gun can't play in LH1 range, but also hard to kills someone without aiming down sights.

[supple oracle]

Oh i'm toxic right now because embark refuses to touch F-CAR where it matters

already said im tired of waiting for patches and patches and not even dev note on what they think on the F-CAR on its current state

it still has Ridiculous damage alongside higher firerate, Fast reload, a scope and a meaningless recoil "nerf" that aint the real nerf, and instead of nerfing its perfect 25 damage to 24 or lower, they just make its damage drop-off at range worse

i'm still mad about the C4 charge nerf from 2 to 1

Nuke was already gone with the weight changes when sticked to objects, i dont care about C4 damage nerf, but reducing its charge to 2 to 1 was overkill

why use C4 now?, ill just use RPG instead

[civic forum]

i agree that c4 should deal more damage than breach charge too, F-CAR also should nerf on damage instead of recoil pattern

[supple oracle]

i dint mention about damage buff to C4..., i just want 2 charges back because i mainly used C4 for arena destruction

[civic forum]

but breach charge shuld e use for destruction

[supple oracle]

Then why embark dint give breach charges 2 charges?

[civic forum]

and c4 shouldn't use for breaching, i think breach charge should has less damage but add itto be 2

[supple oracle]

have embark add breach charge to heavy with 2 charges and i will shut the fuck up

if they dont want to, then put C4 back to 2

[median olive]

I understand you might really want some changes, and it's great you're giving feedback, but it's genuinely much easier to get your suggestions if they're not surrounded by also insulting others who don't agree

[hexed plover]

this^^^

[supple oracle]

well sorry if i had to lose braincells talking to a guy days earlier where he told me i'm using C4 wrong by not using it as a BUDGET MINE

Placing a mine and C4 besides it?!, are you kidding me?, this is your "Synergy" argument?

[median olive]

That's ok. People can be wrong about what works best haha

[supple oracle]

@granite rune only the lights that rely on crutches to play, but they werent real light players anyway

[stoic garden]

this server is really good if you want to learn the word crutch

[hazy spear]

i don't know what crutch means tho...

[stoic garden]

(here it means something that makes a build actually effective or annoying idk)

all you need to know is that when something is good its a crutch 🔥

[hazy spear]

ohhhh... i had an smooth brain moment again

[hazy spear]

tbh it depends on how good it is, is it Balanced good or Broken good?
that's the thing you need to ask yourself before saying something is a crutch.

[shy marsh]

heavy dooes no damage

[fleet brook]

It feels good knowing I was right at least the devs thought I was right about the data reshaper

[fleet brook]

Being petty and humping back to this but even the devs thought it could use a range buff so in the end I was right for the majority of people it felt bad even if it's a small range buff

Actually tripled the range

And stun gun is getting looked at Because even they acknowledge it sucks to play against

And now time to go do my morning run

[zealous timber]

Yeah its pretty good now lol

[fleet brook]

Eh just wanted to do the admittedly petty thing and just jump back to sighing I was right

And it wasn't a "skill issue"

Toggling invis got a nerf but I don't really toggle my invis so that's meh

Mesh sheild got a nerf which is good it felt impossible to burn and KS was buffed which is good because I've been using it in the meh state

[supple oracle]

i dont have a strong opinion on mesh shield, just wished there was a dev note as to why the nerf

[fleet brook]

It just felt weird to play against like all of a sudden a pause button would be hit on the fight and because of the hp you can't break it but you also can't turn away because there would be a heavy behind you and it just kinda stalled fights (at least for me) when I was out of position and waiting on my time

Or just being a pure tank while my teammates shoot and peek from it was also from

[ruby helm]

i kinda like the idea and playstyle of the 93r but the ttk is just way too slow for a light gun so i'll stick to the smgs.

[muted knot]

Why people complain so much about the stun gun?? You can still hipfire and 90% of the guns have good hipfire and if they stun you they are usually right next to you maybe decrease the accuracy of stun or less stuntime?

[rough carbon]

That's when you rush the heavy and get them from behind the shield

[fleet brook]

Because stuns will always feel cheeks to play against and not everyone wants to run a good hip fire gun

Lights are also speedy and UI clutter of the static and STUNNED appearing on my screen

They're also usually behind you

[crude loom]

What if stun gun becomes a weapon, it would be really weird but I could see a world where the stun gun does the same thing as now, but it could also deal damage, that way you can’t just get exploded after being stunned, and they have to stay close to you to be able to deal damage

[fleet brook]

My favorite suggestion was make the light have to hold the stun gun for the effect would work so a teammate would have to help them

[muted knot]

Im not saying you have to run a hipfire gun but regardless most weapons are good at hipfire anyway

[supple oracle]

How about stop crying at embark for nerfing invis and stun gun, and start looking at the real issue that light shouldnt have to use invis or stun to be viable in the first place (i dont believe it needs invis and stun gun to be viable,Repeating what the others are saying)

you cant fuckin cry to revert the nerfs when that by itself wont fix the issue on lights to begin with

start telling embark to buff light but without having to rely on 2 specific gadgets/specialization to even be "viable"

[kind hollow]

i hate lights because i always play solo and only play for my self in solo queue 😀 (sarcasm i think)

[fleet brook]

I'd call it an invis Change not a nerf

Like they said it'll still keep the same uptime you just can't toggle

[sudden chasm]

Exactly. But yet, another week with any tweaks. I play it sometimes for the feel and look, then get reminded i cant start AND finish a fight with it.

[supple oracle]

93r feels like it could have been the third best ranged weapon, first being sniper, second being LH1

[silver crater]

The data reshaper change isnt gonna make it viable, I think if you give it infinite charges so you can like cycle through whatever barrel you want it will be and then using it on enemy tech puts it on cooldown

Another good Idea I heard is it should turn enemy tech into ally tech

Also if you give people more glitch options there wont be a need to nerf mesh shield

Actually glitch trap is underrated on medium

[supple oracle]

for one im happy i can turn that turret in to a potted plant from 15m

on the other, im gonna have to line up map props to turn them into goodies instead of stacking them

[runic mauve]

have u guys noticed the throwing knives need way more exp to level up? its 20k exp for yellow skin and 24k for blue. Every other item is 9k exp for both skins

is it intentional?

[rough carbon]

What if lights had a feign death gadget or specialization

[strange trout]

Ngl 400 for 4 animations is a god damn steal

[rough carbon]

A heavy machine gun with rpm so high you burn yourself with it with enough sustained shooting and take minimal fire damage

[restive plover]

give... lights... holopilot...

[fossil pilot]

Yo they finally gonna nerf the stun gun. I hope they nerf the range so people can't shoot you from halfway across a building.

[rough carbon]

I wouldn't mind to see a few bamboozles

Dead ringer as a specialization with a hologram decoy gadget sounds fun

[restive plover]

I hope they REMOVE IT

[restive plover]

I'm down for dead ringer ig but I think holopilot is a much better specialization, plus I think both shouldn't be added cus we don't want 2 things added exclusively to bamboozle

[rough carbon]

There's already a double cloak load out why not that lol

[potent ledge]

@silent swallow please make this a skinn for the gass grenade😂

[rough carbon]

That's a direct punch lol

[restive plover]

fair, tbh I think cloak should be removed from specialization and replaced with something cooler (like holopilot or dead ringer)

[fossil pilot]

I mean stun mechanics are annoying and some games remove them altogether but I don't think it'll happen. Most of the time either the attacker is too dumb to even stay out of sword range or doesn't kill you in time. Only times I've been actually fuming over it is when somebody hits me with it from like 30ft away.

[restive plover]

I think if I wanted to be stunned I'd play overwatch

[fossil pilot]

I think I know a compromise. Move it to medium

[rough carbon]

Doomfist gauntlet sword skin when

[potent ledge]

Nah. I'm from norway. Just making fun of sweedish food and hapoend to find that pic on google😂

[fossil pilot]

Had to look up what that is. Everyone laugh at this overwatch player.

[restive plover]

now this is a good idea, but still it's very annoying to be stunned, and I feel like stun gun is just powerful enough to make it practically required for any load out by light or mediums

[supple oracle]

too busy laughing at players crying Light is useless now because of cloak nerf and the upcoming stun gun nerf

[restive plover]

I would genuinely be happy if stun gun was just removed, I am low-key very confused on how it even got into the game, like how do u make such a perfect game and then add stun mechanics to it lmao

[rough carbon]

All the dash lights are sighing in relief

[restive plover]

evasive dash is still good with melee or knives

[fossil pilot]

I never use either as light :)

[supple oracle]

say that to them, not me lol

well they weren't real lights anyway

[restive plover]

and grapple is ok for moving around but with light u kinda need something that helps u stay alive rather than more movement

[fossil pilot]

I was joking but it would be a reasonable move. Only bad part is a stun & shield would suck to fight against.

[rough carbon]

Fuck Spies all my homies play Tracer

[restive plover]

whar?

[restive plover]

oh yeah forgot Abt that

[restive plover]

I thought tracer was the tf2 scout clone

[rough carbon]

She is the great grand-daughter yes

[supple oracle]

i just realized my mistake in writing,fixed it

[fossil pilot]

Grapple needs a small buff imo. Either range or cooldown or make it grapple enemies.

[restive plover]

I still don't get it

why aren't they real lights lol

[runic mauve]

I dont mean to be annoying, but do u guys know of this? Seems weirdly deliberate but I dont see why it would be on purpose

[rough carbon]

Grapple needs two charges or a reduced cooldown for short grapple distances

[supple oracle]

you dont need Invis and stun gun to be viable, and those crying about those getting nerfs werent real lights anyway

[restive plover]

I don't think u get the "they weren't real _____ anyway" saying

[slate merlin]

cool shotgun buff, but i still would prefer it to have a slightly bigger hit radius cause it's not hitscan.

[supple oracle]

what is so hard to understand what i meant?, they're not light players, they're wannabes playing light

[fossil pilot]

Cause cloak & stun is for pansies who can't handle running up to the enemy or trying to actually stay out of sight

[restive plover]

...but ur a light player just by playing light, it's not like a light player is some status u need to earn

[supple oracle]

i give up

[fossil pilot]

Cloak is a crutch for bad positioning lmao

[restive plover]

idk I think light kinda needs the crutch

[fossil pilot]

If you need the crutch that means you're bad at light. People do fine without it.

[rough carbon]

I've used thermals and seen people just standing there with confidence which quickly erodes when you dash at them

[fossil pilot]

So true. Don't even need thermals they just expect you not to see the refraction. Edit: forgot they don't refract when still which is stupid

[rough carbon]

I like to be certain, I've fought too many spies

And to a certain extent, sombras

[fossil pilot]

I play as light usually with sword and still manage to kill morons who stun me and then expect me not to swing when they're 2 feet away.

[rough carbon]

This is basically Sombra and instead of hacking its the stun lol

[fossil pilot]

I rarely encounter smart stun users and when I do they're abusing the shit out of it's OP range.

[arctic fog]

Glad I just swapped to using dash

[fossil pilot]

So true :)
Cloak was my last unlock out of principle. Played closed beta so I still got to use it before then.

[arctic fog]

It's kinda sad that cloak is bouta get nerfed into the ground because there were some pretty fun plays you could pull with it.

[somber halo]

all im saying is add the AUG you feel me?

[fossil pilot]

They just gotta remove the part where when you're still there's no refraction and maybe make it slightly more visible in general. Don't think the cloak needs more than that. Rewarding stillness as the speedy movement class is stupid.

[rough carbon]

I hear you loud and clear

Counterstrike made AUG so appealing

And Tom Clancy's the Division

[supple oracle]

not much of a chance to be added for heavy since KS-23 Exists (balance wise), but i will still hold the little hope i have for the 4-BORE

https://tenor.com/view/gun-4-bore-big-gun-gif-2287384251865604126

[rough carbon]

That should be like a one hit kill to lights, maybe leaving mediums on deaths door, penetrating rounds like the tf2 machina but suffer from an awful reload time

[supple oracle]

Usually 4-Bores rifles comes in double barrels

that one in the gif has been modified to BECOME a single shot 4-Bore since they are rare to find

[rough carbon]

Looks like a dang elephant gun lol

[supple oracle]

well, not as rare as the JDJ .950 FAT MAC (only 3 exist)

[rough carbon]

The dislocater

[supple oracle]

it is, well, not sure if "Stopping rifle" and "elephant gun" mean the same thing

[rough carbon]

Shoot it while jumping for massive air

[vague monolith]

If the cloak gets anymore visible it'll be a throw pick imo

[candid island]

I play all classes.*
Slowly but surely every fun weapon, gadget, or ability I use no matter what the class is, is being nerfed into oblivion.

Every single item that felt good to use, now doesn’t feel good and every single item that felt horrible to use still feels horrible. Really disheartening to see.

[runic mauve]

yeah Ive been using the cloak since the 33% thing and it feels decent rn. Getting shot out of invis basically means u have to fight or gtfo, no re-enabling invis in any scenario. You also have to think more when actually going invis, the extra 20% after every use really cuts down on invis time. We'll have to see after more playing, but as a user it doesnt feel too good

[worn smelt]

if you want lights from running cloak then buff dash and grapple. after this cloak nerf lights are mainly going to be running dash

[patent forge]

What about QUICK STEAL specialization for light? Cloak esp. +stungun annoys people (as ligh I agree its a bit cheesy), so why not replace it entirely with smth cool and useful for the team, that makes light more valuable for ranked? Steal was 6 seconds, so make it 3-4 with this. It compensates lights small health pool while stealing, makes for more team utility and cloak doesnt have to be annoying or nerfed until unusable.

[strange trout]

Soo the starter pack skins are essentially free?

[runic mauve]

yup

[proud parcel]

Yes. If you have the 1150 or whatever already you get the 1150 back plus the skins.

[strange trout]

Cool, didn't realise that in season 1, will make sure to get em from now on

[runic mauve]

(somewhat) same with the pink bunny one piece bundle, u get the same amount of multibucks as if u bought just the multibucks

so if u were about to buy multibucks then by buying that bundle u get it for free

[real tartan]

Yeah I wish I knew this before I bought the battlepass lol, I now have leftover coins I am saving from the bunny bundle

[remote sable]

i just don’t agree with the heavy’s ability to have three very powerful defense gadgets that are all immediate activation

pair that with heal beam’s immediate health negation on a heavy you’re damaging and you just get a very exhausting meta

[verbal apex]

Tbh the activation and throw time on the dome shield gets me killed a lot

[obsidian nexus]

rip cloak

[ornate furnace]

yeah, I think the cloak change was weird idk, if we're gonna do that to cloak we need to make it silent again

it shouldnt cost twice as much, still be loud asf, and easy to spot

thats like, an UBER fucking nerf light didn't deserve that shit 😭

[remote sable]

cloak is just powerful enough to win fights over and be effective in active gun fights when the focus is typically off invis lights
it punishes lights from being able to spam cloak immediately after being hit, which i think is a good thing

i want light to be more powerful and viable, but i hate that most of its power is just from outright cheesy bullshit

[ornate furnace]

they already couldn't spam cloak after being hit, not in poison, and definitely not while being shot?? the chances of me escaping by "spamming invis and running" is like 20%

it already wasn't effective they just made it harder to do which is FINE I still just think what was its purpose 😭 like nobody asked for that

[remote sable]

naur dude, shit was easy as hell, especially against heavies without charge n slam
i know this because i abuse the fuck out of cloak myself and it's actually so free lmao

[ornate furnace]

GOOD, heavies shouldn't be able to get away with doing anything, if a heavy cant catch a light running away and going invis THATS GOOD GAMEPLAY DESIGN

??? So we dont like light being able to ESCAPE A FIGHT IT CANT WIN??

[remote sable]

lights can absolutely win against heavies wym

[ornate furnace]

yeah if the heavy has brain damage

all it takes is an rpg or a heavy who can aim and that light is COOKED especially and invis light, you have to play so annoying to actually win against a competent heavy

not a god damn quickplay heavy

[remote sable]

you're asking for a literal get out of jail free card, which makes the cloak ability an absolute crutch in nature
i advocate for crutch removals, which is why i'm waiting for heavies' crutches to actually get removed

light is powerful but all of its power comes from absolutely dishonest gadgets, same as heavy

[ornate furnace]

Im not saying make it a get out of jail free card, that was stunguns job tbh, im saying it was a useless nerf because it just did the same thing they nerfed cloak last time for, and yes this is true most of lights capabilities come from its gadgets you burn all your gadgets on one engagement and probably die right after, im just saying I think its really bad to keep nerfing the only thing it has going for it instead of balancing other things

I dont think invis was ever the problem killing an invis light is just too easy

[remote sable]

considering the fact that there's no actual counter to cloak i think this is a good compromise
lights being inside of fire/gas is a dead light regardless of them being able to cloak out of it or not

and we know that lights are not gonna be sporting recon nades. i have that shit white and it really is so avoidable for lights

[ornate furnace]

🤨 the counter to cloak is using your eyes, if you cant hear or see a cloaked light thats your fault. and the counterplay to it is running another light that either has sonar, tracking dart, or thermal vision, all niche but thats its counter play, or use poison/fire to tick their invis so they cant actually push an area, invis already had problems pushing in a heavily guarded area because they couldnt do anything the moment their invis drops they're an instant target to turrets and players, thats its counterplay

if you're not alone in some random corner of the map the likelyhood of you being killed by a stungun + cloaked light is like -0

[remote sable]

i don't know what part of the globe you live in but light in its current state is actually just free as hell

[restive plover]

Never has been.

[ornate furnace]

I live in the part of the globe where im not in plastic 2 lobbies killing baby heavies, and my enemies actually shoot back when I make dumb plays 🤷

[remote sable]

i'm just now getting into ranked (truthfully i been avoiding it like hell because i'm actually spiteful to the ranked system in the game) but the current kit of light is actually just free

xp52 and lh1 are full on overpowered and cloak is just a get out of jail free card in almost every map, especially vegas and syshorizon

[ornate furnace]

you wanna know a REAL get out of jail free card

[remote sable]

i say this playing the class a fair bit myself

[ornate furnace]

on light, ofcourse because I cant say mediums defib that'd be too obvious

a real get out of jail free card is gateway if you use it properly, its super annoying to deal with a gateway offangle, and I think thats good design

[remote sable]

i love gateways and it's why i been getting into light again

i hope you know that i'm coming from the fact that i also think mediums and heavies are way more overpowered but i don't think a class's power should be centered around its absolute cheesiness

cloak+stun is just outright unhealthy for the game both competitively and casually, as is many other things. i'm counting down the days where heavies' defenses are actually looked at, because mesh+dome+barricade is fucking obnoxious

[ornate furnace]

but compare gateway and invis right, so say you're trying to push a room FULL OF TRAPS AND TURRETS right, the enemy team is above with a demat and the moment you enter you're just gonna get lasered, now the difference between that and an invis is that, you can 1, gateway your team in, 2 gateway + glitch nade to buy yourself some time, or offangle THAT team and kill them. more uses than a cloak and arguable more stupid to deal with, my point here is that, cloak doesn't actually do shit it never did, cloak was just (haha funyn spy gameplay) that got heavily gutted on release because people couldn't use their eyes to see the CLEARLY SHIFTING SPACE infront of them

the dumbest argument in the finals is going "Invis light is too hard to see with all thats going on" NO THEY'RE THE EASIEST TO SEE, they're harder to see when literally NOTHINGS going on

[remote sable]

cloak doesn't actually do shit it never did, cloak was just (haha funyn spy gameplay)
that's literally not true and people in the highest tiers will outright call you stupid for thinking htis

i don't play competitive too much myself but i do keep up with prominent players and it's universally agreed cloak is one of the best gadgets right now

[final lotus]

Wanna know your guys' thoughts with my cloak rework idea, happy to discuss!

• Cloaking Device
• Reduce the activation cost from 33% -> 20%
• Reduce cloak sound with slower movement
• Standing still while cloaked is completely silent and provides true invisibility
• Cannot attack with ranged weapons or gadgets while cloaked
• Decloaking takes 1 second to perform

[remote sable]

except for the last point, sounds like a crutch

you're just asking for an ability to rat harder lol

and taking one second to decloak is fine i think, but it also removes so much of the utility that cloak has

[ornate furnace]

cloak already did this stuff didn't it? Standing still did provide true invis and moving slower made it make less noise

[final lotus]

I want it to be more stealthy and less aggressive

[remote sable]

the point of cloak is for lights to navigate more safer, not to rat harder

[final lotus]

You can stil, navigate safer with it tho

[ornate furnace]

"rat" is crazy ngl, do you call a tf2 spy a rat?

[final lotus]

Standing still you were still slightly visible

[remote sable]

tf2 spy and light are completely different classes in completely different games

[ornate furnace]

I didn't know that, and that explains alot of the random times I just get fucking nuked when standing in a corner waiting for a team to pass 😭

[final lotus]

Crouch walking, walking, and spritning all have the same loudness

[ornate furnace]

not really, i mean if you're using dash sure, but in this case cloak was supposed to give you the gameplay somewhat similar to spy in tf2 or sombra in overwatch, I think you forgot that this game allows you to explore multiple different playstyles

[final lotus]

can you tell me specifically what you don't like about each change?

[ornate furnace]

invis by no means is aggressive and light gets punished alot for super aggressive plays-

[final lotus]

Before the nerf, it was always used aggressively with practically no use for defensive or passive plays, I wish they would buff dash to be the more aggressive spec, and have cloak as the more passive one.

[ornate furnace]

I think dash could use a rework, i think just making it a blink or actually giving it better mobility would do more for it, rn its kinda clunky w/ latency and such

[final lotus]

I would increase the speed during a dash so you aren't as easy to track at mid - long range.

[ornate furnace]

god you're a saint.

too smart for this game, stop playing it....

[final lotus]

grapple should be the middle ground, with more air control and speed, with a shorter cooldown

[supple oracle]

i beggined to use my Barricades as portable "walls"

Now let me explain, when i play with MGL32 i sometimes run in the issue that the cashout is in a really bad spot for me to bounce my grenades once so it explodes next to it

so i started placing my barricades next to the cashout, but not close enough to be used as barricade for capturing, so i can bounce my grenade on the barricade so it can bounce once and immediatly explode on the player next to the cashout

i explained this so horribly

[ornate furnace]

you did buddy...But I think I kinda get what you mean??

[remote sable]

Reduce the activation cost from 33% -> 20%
lights should be punished for being shot while in cloak. in maps like vegas they get so much freedom to bail on fights by spamming cloak after being damaged
Reduce cloak sound with slower movement
i guess
Standing still while cloaked is completely silent and provides true invisibility
you are going to wind up hating this change when it happens to you mid fight
Cannot attack with ranged weapons or gadgets while cloaked
you remove the utility of it completely
Decloaking takes 1 second to perform
you remove the utility of it ocmpletely

[supple oracle]

lack of walls for me to bounce the grenade to hit the enemy taking cover on the cashout

i create a "wall" using the barricade to serve that purpose to bounce my grenades

some cashouts are in horrible spots to defend with MGL32 Like sys horizon outside staircase

that slight verticality with no good walls to bounce the grenade is horrible, grenades endup falling to the void

[remote sable]

you are asking for this game to be less controller friendly than it already is lol

[ornate furnace]

okay so now ill give my 2 cents on these changes

Reduce the activation cost from 33% -> 20%
I personally, think that keeping the activation cost is fine, but going back to old silent invis could just even it out.
Reduce cloak sound with slower movement
ties into my last point
Standing still while cloaked is completely silent and provides true invisibility
This is fine, tbh its a bigger punishment than anything because making a light stand still is a death sentence and can probably get them killed more often than not, maybe introducing like a 10 second delay before the full invis kicks in
Cannot attack with ranged weapons or gadgets while cloaked
I like this...Invis snipers are so annoying.
Decloaking takes 1 second to perform
why?

[ornate furnace]

good, stop playing controller, we dont need another apex we want another overwatch, im tired of competeting with a controller instead of another damn human

[remote sable]

now you're just asking for htis game to actually die lmao

i don't like aim assist but that's where the playerbase is and should be

[final lotus]

I agree with your first point, which is why I set it to 20%, instead of the 14.3% it was before. 33% is complete over kill, which allows for only 2 charges of cloak.

I have had this happen to me during a fight, and guess what, I outplayed it because when I suddenly stop hearing the cloak noise, I know he is nearby, also remember that it already funcitons very similar to this, so kinda confused as to why you disagree.

The utility of cloak is to position like you said earlier, so you can do this a lot better, being able to stun and shoot from cloak is what made it very frustrating, this way there is more of a flow to fighting cloak.

[rough carbon]

As long as they don't make The Finals 2 we're good

[ornate furnace]

well you cant have your cake and eat it too, so pick, do you want aim assist or do you want good gameplay that isn't clunky, im tired of games trying to appease every crowd, controller players have enough fps games that are "controller friendly" they dont need another 😭???

[supple oracle]

The problem isnt controllers, its the crossplay, we as PC can turn off crossplay so we dont play with consolies

consolies cant turn off crossplay because they also will turn off matchmaking between Xbox and playstation, when what they want to turn off is crossplay with PC

[remote sable]

i want a game that is developed by awesome develoeprs to live and have a population that it deserves

[ornate furnace]

🤨 that didn't answer my question if anything you just dodged it

by trying to please everyone you kill a game, by choosing one demographic and sticking to that you get way more

[remote sable]

you really don't know how this works

[ornate furnace]

your takes say otherwise, I think I know more than you

[final lotus]

You object to the 1 second delay with ranged weapons, this is because an invis-sniper can decloak and shoot simultaneously, defeating the purpose of not being able to shoot while cloaked. Perhaps it can be lowered to 0.5s but still.

[ornate furnace]

ohhhhh, that makes sense then

[final lotus]

Your standing still with a 10 second delay for full invis seems overly extreme

I think the time to transition from cloak to full invis when standing still should be quick, like half a second, less than a second for sure.

[ornate furnace]

i didn't actually mean 10 second, I meant like some sort of drawback to it so people wouldn't complain, I keep forgettign 10 seconds game time feels like a damn eternity

[remote sable]

you're alienating your largest playerbase by making in inaccessible for them to actually be able to compete in.

you're then having the pc oriented playerbase which already has their default games of valorant, counter strike, overwatch, and apex, and they're going to prefer playing those games over this because the pc playerbase loves to default to games, stick to it, hate it, and continue to play the games that they hate

you are asking for the game to actually just die in favor of light buffs

[ornate furnace]

okay, who cares? My larger playerbase can playerbase themselves somewhere 🤨, it started as a pc game, its a pc game.

[remote sable]

you are asking for the game to actually just die in favor of light buffs

do you not realize how dense and closed minded that is at all

[ornate furnace]

its better than it dying in favor of everything else, light needs a buff rather than medium being able to deny any effort you put into the game or heavy just shitting on everything else because the devs dont know how to balance a tank, no shade to the devs they're doing a great job, im just someone here to express and opinion, and my opinion is controller sucks and it needs to stay in a controllers place, too many games have nearly died for favoring controller players

[remote sable]

oh my god you actually admitted it lmao

i'm going to end the conversation with this
you are dense, and you have zero clue on what you're talking about at all

[ornate furnace]

Yikes

[sour berry]

What are the best loadouts for each class at the moment, out of curiosity (I problem would make them my contestant slots). Hard to know what is the best or worse when there is so many.
Is there any meta 5v5 or 3v3 classes, my friend told me to ask (idk if I have asked the right server for this sorry if so).

[final lotus]

controller is not optimal for fps games, mouse and keyboard is 100% human input, 100% human skill, controller relies on aim assist and special treatment to compete.

[remote pivot]

I search for old posts about heal beam glitch, seen one from Jan and Dec. but no solution posted. Has this been solved yet?

Heal beam key bind doesnt fire the beam; but the heal beam gun makes a sound.

[ornate furnace]

Fr, but that ties into why i said this okay, who cares? My larger playerbase can playerbase themselves somewhere 🤨, it started as a pc game, its a pc game. if the devs wanted it to be a more console sided game they wouldn't have nerfed aim assist as hard as they did back then, the devs choose it literally is if the devs say it is, and they said no to console supremacy 🤷‍♂️ get mad @ the devs for nerfing the "inferior" way to play...

[civic forum]

What is fastest ttk weapon rn

[ornate furnace]

Uhhhhhhh rpg :3

[final lotus]

Pre nerf aim assist was fucking ridiculous

[ornate furnace]

Some of us don't think that ig

#bringbackaimassist

[remote sable]

i play on pc and kbam

[ornate furnace]

Good to know we're both apart of the lower playerbase then

[remote sable]

i think aim assist is in a good state, but adding gadgets that make it tough for controllers to keep up while kbam is fine is terrible for the game's longevity

[ornate furnace]

✈️

^ By this I mean the point of the conversation flew over your head, Ill say it again in a different way because Its clear we dont fully see eye to eye, but I wanna convey a point for understanding not to be right or wrong.

BUT targeting a specific crowd is better than trying to get everyone, they dont really care all that much about controller players since the aimassist nerfs ive yet to see an above average controller player, the games "longevity" doesn't really matter in this context, embark barely advertises their game atp, it losing controller players wont kill its game, people are already asking for separate console/pc lobbies, nobody wants to be lumped up with a controller player when they're on pc

gamers ask for segregation 😭 and its so funny you just dont see it, nobody actually likes the "larger player base" so favoring better gameplay over controller is just better imo

[foggy bridge]

So nothing was done about the 93r? Why? The gun is basically useless. Needs a buff.

[ornate furnace]

its in a solid state! it does what it does in a good way, maybe some accuracy changes but its meant to be an upclose shredder

it beats most guns that aren't the m11 in terms of firerate in a close up battle, it just relies too much on headshots

[civic forum]

But it bad at closse range

And also high damage dropoff in far range

[ornate furnace]

why are you trying to take a long range fight with a pistol

[civic forum]

In close range they cant even hipfire, bc high dispersion

[foggy bridge]

Not really. It's literally outclassed by every other gun.

[grizzled maple]

I’d say it’s pretty good but it doesn’t beat an SMG with a scope

[foggy bridge]

There's almost no reason to go for the 93r over the mp5. Js. It's a cool gun for sure but it's terrible.

[ornate furnace]

i think it depends more on recoil control and being good at ADS + hipfire conversions its probably a higher skillgap so I can see the issue

[civic forum]

Why they still has high dispersion even when they scoping but also jump

[ornate furnace]

its a burst fire weapon, most burst weapons have high dispersion, a better way to control it is to get good at crouch spamming because it seems crouching lowers the bullet dispersion

[civic forum]

Then how is it goodd for close range when you gonna stop moving for shoot

[ornate furnace]

atleast for the famas idk abt the 93r, I dont really miss with it, the only time ive been out beamed was by an m11

[foggy bridge]

I mean Ive used it to the white camo lvl (forgot number) I really really tried to like it but I couldn't anymore lol. Went back to the mp5 and m11

[ornate furnace]

🤨 you dont need to stop moving to crouch, it shoots bursts of 3, so if you crouch while shooting that burst will be more focused, even a second of crouching does the job

thats why you crouch spam + strafe its just something ppl do in fps games

[civic forum]

You ever fight in so much going on situation ranked? Both mp5 and LH1 has niche while this gun has contradict in itself

Why cant they jst make it same acc as silent pistol

[ornate furnace]

I play ranked alot, if anything this gun and the LH1 have alot in common, the LH1 with the recoil that practically BLINDS you, and its bullet dispersion, it just makes up in damage and if you shoot slower, you're supposed to do that with the 93r aswell, tbh I dont know why they give these guns such high firerate if they're meant to be shot slower in order to actually be effective

[foggy bridge]

Exactly. That pistol is pretty solid! But the 93r is just bleh. Which sucks cause I like the 93r (aesthetically) just not viable compared to other guns

[civic forum]

Lh1 we can control the recoil by slower your shot in far range

Lh1 has their role and playstyle

[foggy bridge]

LH1 shreds tho lol

[ornate furnace]

you could be right, again I dont know these guns well enough to give a valid argument or reason, I just know the LH1 isn't super effective in close range because if you spam it its harder to use, its a medium ranged weapon, I just know 93r felt super comfortable for me and was reliable (coming from someone who used the silenced pistol alot) but I use dagger more than most things now so idrk

imagine having to shoot to get a kill, couldn't be me

[remote sable]

the only discussion about the finals that exists outside of its community is the fact that the game is dead

i don't think the game is dead, but the narrative surrounding it publicly is that

(i dead ass had someone tell me 20k players on steam daily is a dead game, and unfortunately that's a popular belief)

[ornate furnace]

i guess cod is dead

[remote sable]

the actual problem the game is facing is queue times, and it's a real issue
console players aren't able to find matches, and there's conflict from the console community about the forced crossplay for ranked to ease queue times. population is an issue

[ornate furnace]

The players obsession over dead games is stupid, nobody cares, normalize playing things and enjoying it for you, nobody's calling the finals dead except people playing it, you cant call something dead while still feeding and taking care of it

[remote sable]

and further alienating people from playing through adding in gadgets that make it harder for them but trivial for kbam is an unbelievably terrible idea

especially when you're advocating for buffing one of light's absolute strongest gadgets, believing it needs a "rework"

your fucking moronic ass is trying to tell me the conversation went over my head when, again, you openly stated you'd rather the game die in favor of buffing light

all you do is exist in the light bubble and want the whole game centered around you. you are dense

[ornate furnace]

Because it wont die for buffing light! Like, please, give me a universe where buffing light will kill the game

I said that because it wont fucking happen 😭 like you're delusional beyond comprehension

people still play overwatch with controller and deal with tracer, if they can do that they can handle an evasive dash rework or buff

[remote sable]

it's the concept of buffing gadgets that make it hard for the controller playerbase to compete, and therefore pushing them away from the game even more than they already are

this game isn't overwatch, and light isn't tracer

[ornate furnace]

small and quick, and made for picking off idiots, they aren't tracer but MAN THEY PLAY THE SAME!

[remote sable]

this game isn't overwatch, and light isn't tracer

[ornate furnace]

its a pc game, its a team based shooter, and its a good game (believe it or not) it might be just like overwatch

[remote sable]

this game isn't overwatch, and light isn't tracer

[ornate furnace]

https://tenor.com/view/nowarinbasingse-atla-avatar-the-last-gif-18401680

[remote sable]

you're accusing me of the conversation flying over my head while i have to drive this into you three times for you to barely understand

[arctic fog]

Something tells me that this game isn't overwatch, and light isn't tracer...

[remote sable]

^

[ornate furnace]

It might seem crazy what im about to say, but fast + pickoff playstyle with dash, might...be tracer..But back to the main point they aren't pushing controller players away by buffing light I still think you're MORE than delusional

[ornate furnace]

and I just noticed the M by your name..you're a medium, just defib man

[remote sable]

i play all classes fully but i'm a medium main in competitive

[ornate furnace]

wow, its almost like I do the same thing except im not a coward, I play LIGHT IN COMPETETIVE

[remote sable]

i can't play light in competitive because i have too many people who want to play light in competitive and i recognize that two light comp is throwing

while you're probably a massive detriment to your team by sticking to light and avoiding stronger team comps

[ornate furnace]

its almost like it needs a buff then, two medium in comp isn't throwing but two light is? WHO WOULD'VE GUESSED

[remote sable]

light needs to be more powerful
it also needs its cloak and stun nerfed

you realize that light can aquire power through many other means than just its current arsenal

i trust embark to be able to see where light falls behind and can properly resolve it (gateways are a huge step in the right direction) instead of choosing to buff the already strong aspects about light

[ornate furnace]

Maybe, but wait, check this https://youtu.be/NlUBKwTJS2M?t=323 this is your op gadget? this is the thing you asked to get nerfed??

[remote sable]

because buffing the already strong and cheesy aspects about light is just going to further its existence as a point of contention to the casual and competitive playerbase

i think the heavy needs a massive round of nerfs to all of his gadgets and defenses

considering i've said this multiple times, you missed this

[ornate furnace]

https://youtu.be/NlUBKwTJS2M?t=36 THIS IS THE BUSTED INVIS STUN COMBO I'VE BEEN TOLD ABOUT?, and no I've seen what you said, I didn't address it because its a good take, I cant argue that, but what I can argue are the multitude of stupid things you've said about how buffing lights movement would make the game die??? like how do you not bait and entertain a stupid take like that

[ornate furnace]

okay, lets say, invis is so fucking broken, right, but they have nothing else, nobody's running grapple because its dogshit, and dash is clunky as shit, invis was the only consistent thing, entertain me here rq, if its so op what other options do they have

[remote sable]

you conveniently left out dash which is a very viable option

[ornate furnace]

maybe adding more gadgets might fix it, idk but if we really have an issue with invis BACK TO MY POINT, give it more options

[remote sable]

you don't even know your own class that you whore out lmao, what a fucking troll

[ornate furnace]

read, I said dash is clunky as shit, dash isn't viable half of the damn time 😭

are you blind, perchance?? can you not readd???

[winged knoll]

Let's just remove both stun gun and cloak. lights need a picking/aggressive tool. movement should be the only thing allowing aggression for lights. We need keep a way to open a whole by punishing people who are alone or out of position

New light specialization:

Hush: Remove Sounds from footsteps and suppresses gun fire. Trigger cost: 14.25% Total Duration: 16 seconds Recharge: 6.5% per second

Thinking in the same way emark did with the dematerializer allowing you to hack walls instead of recon senses giving you wall hacks.

How about, for lights instead of ambushing your vision we ambush your ears.

New Light Gadget: Trojan Horse. Hack the cash out to either stop a cashbox from being vaulted or keep an enemy contestant from stealing it when triggered. Contestant stealing the cash out is stunned for 5 seconds.

While stun gun is a good pick tool I think paired with the specialization this would play a lot better as a gadget replacement.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk

[ornate furnace]

I get no audio'd by lights alot, hush feels like its already an implimented mechanic, but these things are super cool sounding, it'd be funny if they let you disguise as an enemy lol

[final lotus]

Cloaking device is fine, why remove it, you can do awesome plays and it can be extremely exhilarating having an entire team hunt you down when you have low hp and are last alive. Not to mention the crazy plays you can do with it.

[winged knoll]

i thought about suggesting that

[cloud juniper]

mesh shield is dead?

[small flicker]

they do need to fix the audio in this game

feels like i hear footsteps that arent either there or are coming in the wrong direction

[ornate furnace]

FOREAL.

[winged knoll]

because there's no reason to keep either if they are going to nerf them like this. like i said they need to keep their ambush tools anbd as they are this week/next week we wont have any besides an lh1

[final lotus]

Your suggestion sounds like a gadget not an entire spec

[winged knoll]

besides being a haunted killer with tracking darts no audio and thermal sounds way more like a fun variant of a contestant in the finals

[winged knoll]

vanish bomb exists if your really want invis that badly. i like invis dont get me wrong but if the main complaint is invis stun gun i think ive suggested the best alternative to keep a very similar but not the same playstyle

[final lotus]

The main complaint is stun being combo with invis

Remove the stun, rework the stun, problem solved. Don't take away my playstyle, not cool

[winged knoll]

I did just say that.. not to be condescending but it quite literally is the same playstyle youre just taking advantage of a different sense.. i mean feel how you wanna feel but ive been seeing this complaint for a while now and it seems like its going to go away so why not a spiritual alternative

[final lotus]

Google translate isn't doing a good job, I can't understand what you're saying

[swift jetty]

I just witness peak degenerate playstyles

[fast mulch]

?

[swift jetty]

heavy shield + flamethrower and 2 invis cloak sword rushers

horrible trio to deal with in cashout and even worse in power shift

[small flicker]

LMAO i saw someone posting asking for two teammates to do that with earlier

[fossil pilot]

Literally just be far enough from them lmao

[swift jetty]

stun gun prevents that

[fossil pilot]

They gotta nerf that thing's range

[swift jetty]

i think ill just stop playing till they do something about it bc its making this game feel pretty tedious

[soft juniper]

how long is the cooldown on taser because it felt like this one person tased me then about 10 sec later they could tase me again

[trail hound]

NERF THE APS TURRENT PLEAASSEEE

[ornate furnace]

how?

[trail hound]

Possibly A limited clip of 15?

[ornate furnace]

what?

[trail hound]

it can reject 15 projectiles before expiring

rather than infinitly destroying literally anything thats not a bullet.

[ornate furnace]

just shoot it

it has no hp, and baby range, and is barely effective in combat, people prefer more selfish usage, unless you're talking abt powershift

[trail hound]

powershift specifically, yeah in any other game mode its not really a problem, maybe make it so nothing is placeable on the plat? idk

[restive plover]

Problem is with it it's easy to entrench the platform. Without it it's easy to spam out. Powershift just kind of sucks.

[arctic fog]

Before power shift, aps wasn't much of an issue, so if there was a nerf it could be just exclusively for that gamemode.

[trail hound]

If they could acheive that, id be so impressed.

[arctic fog]

Or maybe limit the amount of aps placements on the platform

Whatever the nerf is, it shouldnt be too extreme considering that the aps is supposed to be used that way.

[soft juniper]

are you saying this coming from powershift by chance?

If they are to Nerf APS turret for powershift excusivly would be best to nerf how many can be placed on the platform itself like 2 max or soemthing

but if you dont like APS and you play medium run the Data reshaper I managed to remove 3 APS turrets all at once

[trail hound]

yes

[fleet brook]

Putting it at the roof of rooms with limited entry ways can be good

[soft juniper]

@trail hound best thing I can say is find work around to counter it the most I have found work arounds for all class types

[broken ledge]

Anyone feel like the sword is low key broken, but people just don't know how to use it yet?

[small flicker]

i kinda know how to use it but i think its really good

[broken ledge]

You can do some crazy hit and run stuff. Get a right click on a target, finish a target, then double dash out, invis grenade to safety

[small widget]

if melee hit reg gets fixed, there are gonna be some demons out there 100%

[arctic fog]

some people definitely know how to use it and it's insane

[broken ledge]

Me, I'm him

I am the him you're speaking of

I'm working on a montage. Sword is so crazy fun

Easily averaging 10 kills a match

[muted knot]

Playing as light the nerf for cloak is understandable but the increase from 14.2 to 33% is a bit much id say 20-25% would be straight still nerfed but not just outright unusable

[stone storm]

yeah a sword buff would make the sword mains borderline hackers

[arctic fog]

sick

[formal monolith]

I disagree, the cloak take two seconds to use and total uses 6 seconds, meaning you stay invisible for 4 seconds.

[cursive temple]

best medium loadout for ranked?

[vestal cloak]

I'd love for cloak to be more visible while sprinting and walking, but basically invisible while crouch walking personally if they wanted to change it. They'd have to revert the drain changes a bit though for sure.

[arctic fog]

If cloak is nerfed into the ground, which is the direction it's heading in, light players will have a much harder time staying alive, since their stealth mechanic is basically useless.

[formal monolith]

Exactly, cloak now feels unuseble, like the little thing is to flack, now where little main turn to now, what grappling hook and dash!