💣┇weapons-gadgets

[wary adder]

what does that mean

[ember pilot]

It means you talked so much that you leveled up and I just did too

You get points on sending messages and stuff

[supple oracle]

Since when is it a problem when they are on the move?, you have an explosive

if you're talking when they are running away, yeah i can get that, you can still kill them depending on the enviroment

but when they are slowly moving because they need to ADS?, you can hit still hit them, unless you're THAT BAD with explosives

[ember pilot]

Still they will run and get to cover and continue moving

Until their health is back

[supple oracle]

DId you not read that the grenades bounce and can hit people without needing direct LoS?

[wary adder]

what environment las vegas?

[ember pilot]

Something about making players do a big objective

Like the community event or something

[supple oracle]

Tricky, if the enemy decises to hold a cashout from above and theres no roof to bounce the projectile, you cant really hit them at a vertical angle, downwards is even worse since the grenades just bounce way too high

this is why i wish the weapon had a secondary fire to explode on proximity for just these situations, while keeping the weapon weak at close range

[ember pilot]

I’m going to play the finals now

[wary adder]

me too can i join

[supple oracle]

or maybe after the grenades travel a certain distance the grenades explode on contact..

but id have to be far

[wary adder]

shut your anime lookin ass up and find some biches

[supple oracle]

its Not even anime...

and also says the default discord image

[modest viper]

What's a good allrounder built for a medium class on cashout?

[wary adder]

not anymore

[supple oracle]

Since you dont understand anything about the game, go play more, then come back when you have more experience and a functioning brain

anyways, im off, have fun playing

[wary adder]

fcar or ak goo nades jump pad defib spec dematter

[supple oracle]

@shrewd arch
@foggy swan

You can talk here instead of having to wait 30 minutes every time

[worn smelt]

please nerf Fcar fire rate and revert damage drop off nerfs. Famas is balanced to be a long range rifle but everyone still picks Fcar bc it's high accuracy and damage at range and it's solid fire rate and damage is still really good at close to medium range. it's all around still the most versatile and overall the best gun in the game.
if it got a fire rate nerf it would still be good at medium to long range but struggle at close range; leading people to pick the akm for its large mag and good close to medium damage as well as the famas for people who want a gun with good medium to long range capabilities while not as weak in close range fights.
each rifle should shine at different aspects but the way the Fcar is now its too strong compared to the famas and the akm making it a no brainer pick in ranked

[supple oracle]

i agree, F-CAR is currently too good at everything

[fleet brook]

Long reply time sorry

It feels like worse versions of the middles grenade launcher and it doesn't come with any (easily accessible) destructiveness

The heavy weapons I like are the ones that can change the game the most

[supple oracle]

destructiveness as in blowing up walls and such?, i actually wished it dint do that...it removes potential walls and ceillings for me to bounce the grenades

[fleet brook]

My shots don't destroy much it always takes like 2+ shots for me to break anything significantly

[shrewd arch]

Nah I got nothing more to say. He is just crying for no reason apparently.

[supple oracle]

well..it is a explosive weapon, but its not really meant for that

[fleet brook]

I feel like heavy is about map altering and the grenade doesn't bring enough for me ig

[fleet brook]

I mean your right...just feels like a worse middle grenade launcher to me

[supple oracle]

you have your other gadgets for that?...

charge & slam, C4 (Before the shitty nerf), RPG

oh, and hammer, ks-23 too

[austere quarry]

yes the aps turret's health needs to degrade from stopping projectiles.. it shouldn't be able to sit there forever stopping unlimited projectiles

[fleet brook]

Also the shotgun can destroy walls better than the explosive weapon

[dusky wren]

model kills mediums way too fast

[supple oracle]

because it was created in mind with that?

look im sorry, but you cant judge the MGL32 for its destructivness when it wasnt even designed for that, while the KS-23 WAS designed with that in mind

[fleet brook]

I'm saying it lacks identity rather than just a worse middle grenade launcher

In my opinion most of the heavys weapons feel unique besides maybe the M60 and the lewis gun

Also while you're here @supple oracle

How are you supposed to use the gravity cube to get the most value?

[foggy swan]

thanks bro

[empty oracle]

Did the Breach Charge just kind of lose popularity at the end of Season 1? I only really see it be used for camping deposit stations in Bank It

[oak wolf]

I used to use it but I use vanishing rn cuz I switched from cloak to dash

[zealous timber]

Gadget - medium - exploding tripwire
Gadget - heavy - glitching tripwire
Vote with 👍 or 👎

Tripwire only goes as far as 3m

[zealous timber]

Special - light/medium/heavy - a bow & arrow that has 3 different types of arrows
1- poison arrow -when it hits anything, it makes poison gas
2- explosive arrow - when it hits anything, it explodes
3- recon arrow - when it hits anything, it scans things around it 3 times

(Hitting enemies with an arrow deals 100 damage if its fully charged, but if its charged less it deals less damage on impact with an enemy)

  Vote with 👍 or 👎

(Bonus)!!!!
Skin concept --
"Medieval times" bundle
Contains
(Heavy) A hammer skin - " a long mace"
(Medium) a shield and baton skin - "long shield & short sword"
(Light) a sword skin - "medieval sword"

(And a skin) - knight armor

   Vote with 👍 or 👎

[supple oracle]

hey, im back

Honestly, the only use i found for anti-grav field is paired with goo gun

Zero grav the cashout and use the goo gun to "suspend" the cashout on the ceilling or wall after the zero field wears off, could also use it to go from 1st floor to 2nd floor and goo the broken floor, patch it up good

then comes a random fire nade to destroy all your hard work :(

and no..zero field is not good as a movement option, all the movement you need is goo gun, goo gun is really good for climbing and sometimes bridges

[fleet brook]

Goo gun propaganda

But thx for the answer because I bought it expecting it to be good and like you said the only use I've had is suspending cash outs or just causing floating chaos with debris

[hazy spear]

how about the hammer being a mace as a skin?
it would fit waaaay more in my opinion.

[zealous timber]

Dayum

Thats actually kinda hard

<@&1012034066876473384> how many upvotes do i need for yall to take a look into my ideas? Sorry for tagging, its just the only way i can reach yall

[timber geode]

zweihander heavy mordhau'ing people would be funny

[paper sentinel]

That does sound better

[zealous timber]

Should i change the text?

[hazy spear]

i like giving ideas to people with my own rough ideas and also trying to help people with their own ideas

[spice oxide]

Fren, if you post the ideas here or in game-feedback, we do check them. Do remember things dont get added immediately or in the same manner suggested (or some times after the balancing team has investigated throughly) or at all. We can filter from the discussion/conversation and bad takes and the good ones

[zealous timber]

Alr thanks,

[meager magnet]

Make the heavy’s rocket launcher fully automatic

[quick gate]

Hell yea brother lol

[tawdry cape]

make the XP shoot gas canisters and give it an 100 round drum

[meager magnet]

👍

[dapper bear]

(Weapon fix)
give the medium two revolvers.
-he holds one on hand, the other in a holster
-when he runs out of ammo, and you don't go for reload he puts the first one back and pulls the other one out
-when you press reload it will reload the revolver on hand, if you're second revolver is at 0 press reload again and it will cycle the revolvers and start reloading the secondary which becomes the new primary revolver.
-This system is similar to the heavy's shotgun

(Weapon fix)
give the Heavy's KS-23 a shorter reload or a slightly longer range damage fall off.
In its state, the gun requires a large amount of ammo consumption for hitting targets especial with its sometimes completely unpredictable hit box.
hitting from longer ranges can be easier to learn because of travel time and less swing in order to nail shots but with its bad distance, it becomes undesirable for mid range conflicts while up close it becomes lack luster to fend off more than one person at a time and then go onto defend against a second in quick secession do to the limited capacity and long reload speed, which also stops it from using its main feature of braking walls most of the time in fear of a low mag in a fire fight.
a way to stop this is to increase the viable range or increase the reload speed, to make ammo consumption less of an issue, allowing the heavy to use it for its intended purpose not being afraid of immediate combat on a low or empty gun. The capacity can stay the same.

(Specialization and gadget Idea)
Heavy- Ospuse

-you shotgun an Ospuse which decreases the delay before regan.
-30 second cooldown

• can be dropped and thrown to be picked up and used by a teammate or enemy like an arena throwable

Ability
-you have 3 Ospuses
-20 second Cooldown per can

Ospuse gives you and your party the abilty to get back into the fight with less time waiting for regan, at the risk that an enemy could steal a can.

[meager magnet]

dawg they should hire you holy crap

[shy marsh]

what is a good load out for mele

[dapper bear]

what class?

[shy marsh]

light

i need it for challange

[dapper bear]

stun gun, invisibility bomb if your running with dash, fire grenade is good at distracting the enemy while you aproach and hiding the sword damage as their is two damages at the same time sometimes mix together, don't fight head on or if the person is running the medium genade launcher. feet explosions are strats against lights.

[shy marsh]

TY but i dont got invis grenade or dash yet but i have the sword and stun gun

[dapper bear]

well alot of light's kit doesn't really help you all that much with sword, gass just makes it harder to aproach, grappling hook is one use, the glitch grenades are not to bad, but I didn't know if you unlocked them or not, tracking dart is fine, but it tells the enemy a light is near by and destroys the suprise

[rough carbon]

dash, sword, invisible grenade, gas grenade, frag

[candid prairie]

FCAR is still deadly as ever and the turret well you might as well just give people who run turrets a 4th person because that's how effective it is I can't do anything without a turret locking on and destroying me within milliseconds of just getting into a room and making me 1-2 hits with certain guns and just get drained instantly.

[sleek pond]

real people underestimate turrets especially with asp , glitch nades cant do anything about it

[candid prairie]

Yes they are lethal and that's the main setup it seems I encounter on the quick cash and cash out modes 2 AP systems with FCARs behind the turret I have no chance of even getting 5-6 shots off before I destroyed entering the room

[fleet brook]

Last one sounds like heavys sandwiches

[fleet brook]

Run light + glitch and invis so turret can't spot you you can get in dodge the asp and down it

Or play heavy

[minor stream]

dematerialize under the cashout, replace ceiling, teamate walls around and you have an easy steal

[dapper bear]

(Gadget Idea)
Heavy- Material rebuilder.

-throw a bubble shield size projector that sticks to surfaces.
-a blue outline will shine over an space where there used to be wall or other environment factors.

• after 20 seconds the the area where the blue outline was gets filled in with new wall, the projector can be destroyed by gunfire, Melee, and direct impact with an explosive device but not radient explosives.
  Any material destroyed after the projector was thrown does not get rebuilt however the space that the rebuilder is stuck on can not be broken until the device is destroyed or the device completes the rebuilding processes.
  If placed on moving materials like the sky platforms, only the platform is effected by the projector, and it will fix only the material in its radiaus when it got stuck.
  Heavy barriers and goo are not rebuilt

Left over debry despawns when rebuilt.

This gives people protecting a cash out more chances to protect the cash out by patching the many holes in the walls and stealing while not out right stopping a team from getting in or making new holes.

[misty heron]

Gadget idea for light and heavy: impact grenade. Does 30 damage on impact and instantly destroys and area of 12 and can destroy walls.

[ornate furnace]

Here's a question and idea, why can't glitch Grenade stop the new defib res but it can stop gateways before they even open 🤨

[ebon vector]

Gadget Ideas: Light
Healing Bomb
A grenade, like the Vanishing Bomb, that will instantly heal anyone in its AoE by 100 HP. Has a relatively short cooldown, say 10-15s. Would give the light class a lot more competitive viability and would help it last much longer during skirmishes.

Gas Mask
An ability similar to Night Vision which, when activated, gives the user immunity to toxic gas for around 6-8 seconds. Would have a medium-long cooldown, e.g. 20-25s. Again, would help lights a lot more with its competitive viability, act as a soft counter to Mediums and would make defending cashouts rely less on gas mines.

Respawn Accelerator
A gadget which, when activated, starts a "reduced death cooldown window," meaning that if the user is eliminated during this time, their respawn time is significantly shortened, e.g. from 16s to 4s. The duration of this window would be for about 8-15s. It would have a very long cooldown, for example 55-75s

Recall Beacon
A device that can be planted in any location on the map, like the Gateway, which, when activated remotely , instantly transports the user back to where it was planted. The beacon can be destroyed by enemies if it is found. Would have a medium cooldown, e.g. 20s. The same thing Sombra from Overwatch has/had.

Still have more ideas but I gotta sleep

[carmine elm]

I like to see a tiny buff for the sh1900, I love this gun but darn it shoots peas after five meters

either give it a bit more range or reduce reload time for better follow up shots (not both cuz that would be op)

[gleaming zinc]

What is the difference between gateway and recall beacon again? I feel like you can do the same thing with gateway but buffed a little with an increased in range. Otherwise everything else sounds really good and I hope the devs implement at least something akin to this

[tacit cairn]

This is the way

[minor stream]

works so often

[dapper bear]

Healing Bomb- would be overpowered as it would quit literally make it impossible to kill lights that have cover for as long as it takes to throw this one down, especially if you throw it down for you and another teamate, a hundred health is pracically all of a light's health meaning you would simply be turning light into a medium who is faster, usually has more dps, and can die if you exeed a curtain amount of damage in a span of time it takes to throw a grenade.

Gas Mask- the counter to gas is fire, use a fire grenade, this is pointless when used this way, if you where to make a gadget that makes you able to stay within the gas, it doesn't really seem that good outside of waiting for regen in the gas, if you revive in the gas and they don't have a gas mask they will start taking damage and most people will not want to be in a combat zone with a smaller health pool because they didn't get out of gas fast enough especially if they are far into the gas, which makes this a horrible spot to do anything in outside of waiting, there is also the fact that most weapons shoot through gas and would kill you anyways so this is only really viable on stopping melee builds and enemy teams from stumbling into your regain corner which might be fild with a grenade if this was added.

Respawn Accelerator- the point of slow respone is to stop gridelock from teamates instantly responing and coming back into the fight almost immediately and sending the teams into another scramble, this throws balancing out the window even if you can only do it once per minute and a quarter. there is also the issue of team response, how that would work I don't know.

Recall beacon- someone already said the problem with this, but to also bring up another point, this both infuriorates people playing against the teleport because it shuts off any ability to kill you, but also anyone that finds it, and has mines in their kit will make teleporting almost always instant death. especially explosive mines.

[jolly star]

cube- made skins, should be interesting

and something like teleportation grenade but it can teleport only 1 player

[next chasm]

Is there an uzi?

Or shot gun?

[dapper bear]

light has the uzi, heavy has the shotgun

technically they all have shotguns

but heavy has the most well known shotgun

[boreal laurel]

Imagine if they gave medium a literal Uzi
High RoF, but poor accuracy and range
In my dreams maybe… 🥲
(TBH it wouldn’t really fit medium’s style, but we can always hope)

[rough carbon]

Canister Launcher for the heavy, sucks up canisters and stores them to be shot out later at will one by one; a max capacity of 6? Perhaps maybe 8. Imagine popping a huge cache of canisters from the sky and just swallowing up the entire lot to be used at the cashbox

doesnt have to be the same canister, it can be a mixed grab bag of any

[ember granite]

Okay so one thing fs is get rid of or nerf the invis or give everyone a infared gadget, and nerf the turrets they’re so annoying that’s the only thing people do w no skill is sit and camp behind it it’s so annoying

And I think they should add something to make more variety of characters I see a lot of medium and lights in higher level settings and so little heavy they fire rate of every class outguns heavy weapons and w the mobility no one runs them maybe a new weapon to the heavy’s w fire rate but less any so you can’t just spray w bad aim

[mellow lodge]

i do not believe you are playing higher rank lobbies if you think heavy is rarely played

[onyx forge]

The healing bomb is a gw reference

[mellow lodge]

also heavy outguns every other class because of their health

[ember granite]

I barely see them just mfs w turrets and Invis, lol you can one mag a heavy w a lot of the ars n smgs

[mellow lodge]

the current meta is MHH in this game, they are the best class in the game

also unless you heavy stands still and does literally nothing you are not going to one mag them =_=

[ember granite]

Lmaoo can you control the recoil or?

[mellow lodge]

yes i can control the recoil

[dapper bear]

I mean I thought invise was annoying at first until I figured out that you can hear and or see invise when they move, and also there are sonnar devies on both the light and the heavy, and its mostly in issue with my load out which usually consists of low fire rate high damage bullet guns instead of the sprey and pray guns which if you know the general visinity of the light can reveal them quick with a single bullet. heavy wins in most fights that he shoots first in.

[ember granite]

You can literally just react track them w the fire rate and the mobility of a heavy they get melted

[mellow lodge]

wdym?

[dapper bear]

you know that you also slow down when you shoot meaning he can track you just as well right?

[ember granite]

Fr it’s simple work when it’s not a chaotic area but when there’s hella shit going on and it’s a team w 2 lights that shit b sooooo annoying they just invis the whole game which i get it’s there whole kit but give em something else yk its just a crutch for mfs

Yeah but the m11 or scar fire rate beats the lmgs and you have the rage if they on the flame or granade launcher

[polar raven]

you are playing in bronze lobbies if you dont see heavies lol

[mellow lodge]

statistically those guns are better but heavy has more health so unless you are shit at the game you will never lose a 1v1 to them especdially because of rpg

[ember granite]

When in a chaotic area the easiest to focus the heavy w half the lobby prolly invis and the heavy having to tank down I b seeing them wipe so fast unless it’s a 3 queues team actually coordinating shit

[mellow lodge]

ok yeah you are in bronze lobbies if half of the lobby runs invis

[polar raven]

half the lobby where theres like at most 1-2 lights in an entire game at high level

[dapper bear]

I think you should run heavy shotgun if you want to melt lights at the close corders that you are talking about, that or just use shield if you arn't the first to engage, wait tell they reload and then fire back

[ember granite]

Fr it’s easy when they can’t aim to reenage and get them w the low mag sizes which is dope

[ember granite]

Didn’t say I didn’t see heavy’s your trying to argue to much rather see the point lol

[mellow lodge]

what exactly is the point?

all i've seen is you say heavy guns suck and that you don't see heavies

[polar raven]

if you see more than 1 light per team youre in low rank

[ember granite]

Definitely should add more to the kits on the character like lights only reply on invis I feel they could get something else and heavy’s need a better gun imo

[dapper bear]

I mostly play casual because Its hard for me to find people to role que on the days I have off and who also use a mic.

[polar raven]

heavies do not need a better gun

[static lodge]

Or you play light yourself with soloQ :)

[ember granite]

Okay nerd neck still tryna argue why don’t you go play or sum lol just putting an opinion not a argument lol

[mellow lodge]

ah yes heavies need a better gun when they currently have one of the best guns in the game

[ember granite]

Yeah they fun good but they get melted and outgunned lol definitely not an issue for me but when I solo queue my team always doing. The most random shit and these things I’ve noticed they fuck up on

Like the main points of mfs w turrets and invis but I must’ve hit a soft spot for sum of yall yo get mad for sum lol

[mellow lodge]

what game are you playing where heavy gets melted and outgunned, cause it ain't this one

[static lodge]

turrets are a big counter to invis

[potent flame]

When your invis turrets cannot see you tho

[ember granite]

lol just say you can’t aim if you can’t melt a heavy w any of the guns lol close or far they slow

[static lodge]

and when you are hit out of invis you cant go back in

[mellow lodge]

you are the one that cannot aim if you are losing fights as a heavy

[dapper bear]

I think turret is good..when your running riot shield, most of the time you should just be using heal gun and let the heavy make the holes in the walls.

[ember granite]

I don’t play heavy lol bruh doesn’t read

[mellow lodge]

then you are in bronze lobbies if the other heavies can't aim

[ember granite]

Bruh you’re so mad lmfaoooo

[mellow lodge]

like you act as if heavy is the weakest class in the game whne it's the best class

[static lodge]

mmmm idk man Medium is kinda crazy

[potent flame]

Turrets have a slow turn. Go behind it and destroy it before it turns around and shoots at you. Of course if your standing in front of a turret and someone shoots you out of invis and then the turret shoots you and u die to the turret then yea. Turret counters invis. But that’s very situational imo

[ember granite]

Go put your turret and camp bud why you so mad I feel some changes could be made it’s definitely not a big deal to add more to everyone’s kit

[polar raven]

yeah you can melt heavies but they can melt you faster

[dapper bear]

heavy does require set up tho, I will say that.

[soft juniper]

The Healing bomb idea is ok but probably give it a longer cooldown and maybe instead of an instant 100hp make it give an instant 50hp then auto regen another 50hp slowly (just a spit ball idea to make it more fair)

[static lodge]

Heavy is the best class at pushing a point tho?

[dapper bear]

yes, but it requires set up

[mellow lodge]

yeah everyone needs more stuff heavy doesn't need better guns though, just say you can't control recoil

[ember granite]

Fr they can change a building so fast in cashouts but need the kit dedicated to it

[static lodge]

what does set up mean to you

[mellow lodge]

not really with current heavy meta

[ember granite]

Lmfaooo brother I’ve been saying this whole time recoil isn’t an issue you’re so salty for sum reason r you a heavy main n mad or sum??

[mellow lodge]

heavy is boring i don't touch it

[potent flame]

True lol

[static lodge]

Heavy has like 80 gadgets to push points, which is weird cus they only have like 12 gadgets

I disagree with "they need set up/ the kit"
unless you go with some crazy off-meta build any heavy is good for attacking a point

A heavy could not use weapons, gadgets or specs and still be the best at attacking points because they have more health

[dapper bear]

you have multiple tools that spunge up damage but a lot of them you have to be strateagic with in order to push, for instance the bubble sheild can protect you but there's only so much 300 hp can stop, the sheild ability is good but you can't shoot with it active, so your relying on teamates. and finally if you shoot a rocket willy nilly there is a chance that it get countered by an aps, a teamate's body (happens alot) or your you just miss.

[ember granite]

But that’s it you need a meta build to do stuff w heavy like a medium you need what you can fw and you can do work a heavy w the wrong shit can’t do much for the team

[mellow lodge]

heavy does not need a meta build to be the most oppressive class, especially because charge and slam and goo are off meta choices

[static lodge]

.... ofcourse you need to be strategic to push? No class can just run into a cashout room and expect to wipe the entire team inside, Heavy is the best at letting their team get into a room without the risk of instantly dying

That has nothing to do with "set up" tho

[static lodge]

Heavy can choose anything and be helpful to the team, if a medium has a weird loadout they are basically a light with different tools and 100 more health

Medium's only ways to support the team (and Im not saying they are bad at all) are heal beam, defibs and jump pad/zipline

[dapper bear]

because in most cases the way to get through requires a lot of set up in order to get objective without your team dying behind your charge, thats why alot of teams will have data medium lower the cash box down a level before sheilding and stealing

[static lodge]

if you have none of those you arent "helping the team" in any other way than getting kills

[static lodge]

I think you are confusing setup for using strategies/ positioning

I'd say setup is trapping a building with mines, using a turret outside of a fight, blocking stuff with goo/barricades etc

[dapper bear]

yeah exactly

[mellow lodge]

yep thats set up

what dry has described is stratergy

[dapper bear]

heavy requires a lot of planning to be effective with the tools he has on hand. wasting gadgets and specialzations gets you and your team killed, an rpg wins games.

[mellow lodge]

heavy requires no planning really

[static lodge]

using a gadget doesnt require extensive planning

[mellow lodge]

heavy just clicks rpg and they win the fight 9/10

[static lodge]

no need to hold a 3 minute teammeeting before assulting a cashout

[dapper bear]

I once stopped a heavy from pushing with an rpg by holding my sheild out right next to him and fallowing him back up the stairs he came, he knew if he shot he would damage himself more then me and was forced to go back to primary, however I was close enough that my close corders weapon beat him in dps, that required knowlage of the game to pull of

I set up his defeate using my gadgets correctly

It doesn't take long to think up a set up with the gear you have, you must adapt to your environment and use your gadget effectively based on experience.

[static lodge]

My buddy thats called strategy and quick thinking

set up isnt just anything that does anything for in the future

[dapper bear]

what is set up then?

[static lodge]

this

[mellow lodge]

placing mines or turrets in objective room, placing goo on windows etc.

[dapper bear]

yeah and you had to pick that load out in order to do all that, you had to think about where to plase all those things, your set up for both things that will happen a lot later on and things that will happen vary soon, the point I'm making is that heavy can't just win every match by running in and just using his gun and rpg on a dime.

[static lodge]

I dont think we ever said that tho

[mellow lodge]

but also heavies really can do that

[static lodge]

true that

[mellow lodge]

especially because meta rn involves two heavies

[static lodge]

sure dumb heavies are bad but as soon as a heavy has more than 9 braincells their loadout options are insane

[dapper bear]

I think heavy is a vary strong class, but I don't think its because he outplays people with gunplay, its because he has some of the best gadgets in the game for keeping one's self alive

if used properly

[static lodge]

Gonna agree with that

[restive plover]

[mellow lodge]

yes i also agree with dry but it's also like if you have your rpg and lose a gun fight stop playing heavy

[dapper bear]

I can kill a heavy that just holds sheild, I can kill a heavy that just those domb sheild out willy nilly, but when a heavy doesn't give you an opening he is a monster at the game

[mellow lodge]

so a heavy with at least 9 brain cells?

[dapper bear]

I've gotten 14 to 16 kills in a game just using sledge hammer

casual games to be clear

[static lodge]

My friends and I often go into games with 3 sledge, 1 picks charge, 1 picks goo gun and I pick mesh shield
We win way more often than we should

[onyx forge]

Hes fire in powershift end of story (lmao)

[dapper bear]

I would play sledge with you, its so bad but so good at the same time its like crystal $&#@

[mellow lodge]

heavy go brrrrrrrrrrrrr

[dapper bear]

When I play power shift I just go heavy with domb, barricade that I place on the lip, and either rpg or goo grenade

[mellow lodge]

also sledge has such a weird hitbox with it's heavy attacks

[dapper bear]

I'm usually the only one on point also

cause everyone is a gosh darn light in casual

[ornate furnace]

I play light in ranked, I feel the only super important change is mediums Defibs, idk I think the denial of effort is just a really big issue for the game rn I just want glitch stuff yo do more other than turn off mines and turrets, the shield change was nice but glitch not only lasts no time but WHY CANT IT CANCEL THE RES 🤦

[dapper bear]

to incentives players to go for the revive, which it already get stopped by the stun gun

[ornate furnace]

Triple medium stack, stun gun does nothing, and 9/10 of you're fighting in gold+ you kinda get beamed if you stun anyone, unless it's a heavy because stun literally makes heavies turn into disabled people, my point is if I go in to a team stealing my cash out, kill 2 and they kill me, and then defib, all my work went out of the window, even glitch Grenade doesn't last long enough to stop a medium from doing a defib

[static lodge]

Defib doesn't get "stopped" by the stun gun

[dapper bear]

I'm just asking cause I'm currious, what the hell was your team doing?

[ornate furnace]

😭 finally someone's asking the real questions

[dapper bear]

If you stun them before they reach the body you can kill them before the res most of the time with light

[ornate furnace]

Too busy not winning duels, or just misplays there's been multiple moments where you just can't do jack shit and they get the defib off, most mediums will literally run into fire to defib their teammates without a second of thought, and I don't like that it's that easy to pull off

Defib not only is a damn near instant reset if there isn't 3 people sitting on top of the person resing but it's also annoying fighting someone and they get res RIGHT after you kill them

How do you respond to that as a light with like 20 ammo 💀

(And I'm a dagger player so imagine how much I'm seething)

[dapper bear]

I mean I think the balance of a light not being able to double kill is not the problem but that the defibs can start the warm up before they reach the body, I think they should just make them stop to res but the defib does it faster and with the less health

[static lodge]

I honestly hate it when I use my entire brain and 200 hours of practice to do the wildest trickstab you've ever seen only to die instantly and the mf gets instaressed

[dapper bear]

I think they should have replaced the defib with one of those sticky hands that grabs the player trophy from afar so you can res it from a safe distance

[static lodge]

that removes the entire point of defib

I think the 3 second windup time is good, it should just leave you vulnerable:
When the ressing person dies the res should fail
glitch should stop a res
the invuln period should be removed
You should be able to stun/track/otherwise debuff the ressing player in some way

[static lodge]

that actually sounds extremely funny and good, just make it able to grab any item and make it throw anything with more force/speed and that sounds funny af

[ornate furnace]

You can easily double kill with dagger, but it's harder to do especially like I said, without risking your life, even with a gun you're still in way too much danger by just being a light

The akiba step thing is broken when you get good at abusing it 💀

[ornate furnace]

And that sounds actually super cool

[dapper bear]

counter offer, the defib stay the same, but they start with one point of health and instantly die to anything that remotly does damage

[ornate furnace]

Or just let glitch items cancel res load, or just give mediums the mercy treatment where they're vulnerable when in defib

[static lodge]

Thats until you get into lobbies where people laser you down with FCAR before the stab even finishes

[static lodge]

that makes it useless again

[ornate furnace]

😭 when I fight players like that I just don't even bother trying to Quickstab I just play dagger like normal when they're looking in my vicinity

[static lodge]

I see 0 problems with importing some of the things I suggested above

Defib is easy to make useless, but I think its not hard to make balanced using the 3 second windup they have

[ornate furnace]

I realized the finals players really don't like the idea of a role Lock, so another idea I had was why not introduce gadget locking where you can't have triple medium all with defib and healbeam

[dapper bear]

by the way what did you think of my idea for the balance changes to the revolver and KS-23

[dapper bear]

I think that's not a bad idea, but also how do you make that work with premade contestants, and also some gadgets like the buble and the specialization shield are some times must picks for people, and some stuff people have not unlocked

[ornate furnace]

I actually like the revolver alot the way it is imo, I think revolver just doesn't fit on medium, medium feels more Long range/medium range with its weapons I think them sticking to ARs like the famas would be good

Revolver always felt more like a light weapon to me idk 🤷‍♂️

Pistols and upclose weapons should be for them and revolver kinda falls short for medium

Also just because on light you could become v1 from ultrakill lol

[ornate furnace]

Then comes the removal of the reserve and allow players to fully add to their comp themselves, and better transparency to see what your teammates are using

You can only see like 2 things they're using and not actually WHAT they have until you die and spectate them 🤷‍♂️

[dapper bear]

I think the revolver is fine for medium the only issue is that it doesn't have the fire power to make up for its low mag size, and the iron sites are dog water.

[ornate furnace]

Iml it's a 3 hit in light, and like 4 on a heavy if anything it's the most balanced for what it is, not to mention it's headshot scaling is insane, if you were hyperaccurate with it you basically win everything

[dapper bear]

I put a link to where I made the changes but my assential Idea was to implement a cycle between two revolvers simular to the heavy shotgun, but instead you cycle between using one revolver to the other, one at a time

[ornate furnace]

I saw and again I feel like it's not a bad weapon, medium by far has the most valance weapon wise just not util

I think the one weapon that needs the most change Is the fucking flame thrower

And maybe lights shotgun, I wish they had more gimmicks in weapons

[dapper bear]

yeah I can kill one of those with the KS-23 faster then they can burn me to death

[ornate furnace]

I was using a Tommy gun, and a heavy ran at me and I swear to GOD I've never died so fast on heavy it's INSANE

That moment made me feel like heavy was worse than what people made it 😭

[dapper bear]

KS-23 needs a bit more range, and a faster reload, it already has less dps then most guns in the game, I don't think that needs to be changed, but the range and the reload do

[ornate furnace]

Which gun is the KS-23

[dapper bear]

the slug thrower

[ornate furnace]

On heavy?

[dapper bear]

it orginally was 50ft but they nurfed it to 23ft

[ornate furnace]

🤔 it's alright I don't have alot of opinions on heavy, me personally I just don't like it's damage, it does too much but if we made it do to little it's kinda useless

[dapper bear]

the damage isn't a problem because its a slow fire rate, and a projectile, even if its a fast projectile, you know how jank projectiles are in this game

[ornate furnace]

That's not the issue though, it's the fact that its like, heavies have an instant win button called an rpg 💀 even without an rpg I think it's overall damage with most of its guns kinds do too much a heavy shouldn't have the ttk of a light it makes no sense but how do you make heavy useful in combat without damage?? What's a tank If they can't fight back ig

[dapper bear]

look the rpg, is not going to be good forever, cause its probebly going to be nurfed, I really hope they make it a rocket jumping tool, so I focus on what I have at my desposal for primaries, the KS-23 is fun, I love to use it, but its got some flaws that make it nonsensical.

[ornate furnace]

That's what I've been saying the fact that these weapons don't have gimmicks that they could have is criminal, rocket jumping as a heavy would be SO much fun.

[dapper bear]

its main feature is that you can break walls with it, but it requires 3 rounds from your 6 round shotgun that takes forever to load and forever to fire, the forever to fire is balanced in the gunplay with it dealing 100 damage, but when it comes to wall breaking it takes a long time and wastes a huge chunk of your amunition that you have to load slowly and are in deep crap if you can't aim and have only 2 to 3 bullets in this gun that fires PROJECTILES.

[ornate furnace]

Ohhh you mean the new shotgun, no that one's great, if you manage ammo properly is has a pretty quick reload.

I like that it has different reload times depending on if it's empty or not

[dapper bear]

The reason to make it a projectile is to make it harder to use at long ranges, however the decrease in damage by a huge margin at 23ft means you cannot viably use it at all at these ranges. meaning there was no point in making it a projectile, cause at point blank its pretty much hit scan.

[ornate furnace]

Yk what, this is a shot in the dark but you know what heavies need?

[dapper bear]

a nurf to rpg?

[chrome python]

Reposing this here but they should Reskin the coffee sip emote to have an ospuze pro juice because I drink so much monster irl and being able to sip an energy drink after a kill would be hype

There’s no emotes chat so weapons gadgets seems best

[dapper bear]

they had an emote for the espose already

[chrome python]

Fuck

[ornate furnace]

A 40.cal barret M82.

[chrome python]

Was it beta I’m assuming?

[dapper bear]

the should make it a damn gadget thats what I say

[ornate furnace]

https://tenor.com/view/50cal-sniper-rifle-sniper-rifle-m82-gif-23208501

"HEAVY TAKE THE SHOT"

[chrome python]

Energy drink gadget makes you run faster or it’s basically a health potion or something

[dapper bear]

I actually had an idea for the desert eagle as a heavy weapon

[ornate furnace]

That sounds cool as hell sounds like an octane stim on coke

[dapper bear]

decreases the time it takes to get regain at the cost of drinking it

[ornate furnace]

Heavy doesn't need another hand cannon 💀....

[chrome python]

Yea imagine all the skins for that gadget, ospuze, coffee, water bottle, etc

Anyways that’s my 2 cents toodles fellow contestants

[dapper bear]

I actually have the full consept right here #💣┇weapons-gadgets message

[dapper bear]

we don't want another light sniper situation with the heavy

could you imagine bubble sheild sniper

[ornate furnace]

Toxic opinion, lights sniper should one shot, I already have to work for these fucking headshots. Make them worth it

[dapper bear]

https://tenor.com/view/взгляд-2000-ярдов-война-war-soldier-gif-3632617944134077161

[ornate furnace]

Sure snipers are annoying but I'd rather just die than be poked by a mosquito from 30000 meters away

[dapper bear]

me when I see a light shining at me from the top of a tower and I'm in widest open space

[ornate furnace]

see I hate snipers so much I ran tracking dart and dashed

Whenever I saw a glint i shot them and played a game of tag 🙂

[dapper bear]

right well I don't see how I can do that with the KS-23 with its retaliating 7 points of damage from the same distance

[ornate furnace]

Ks-23 needs more damage to buildings I watched a heavy use atleast 3 mags worth of slugs to break a roof

It was pretty sad loĺ

[dapper bear]

I know I don't know why they didn't atleast go for 2 slugs but if they want me to break turrain as often is it was made for while still using 3 shots, they gotta increase the reload speed

thats the only reason I want the reload speed, I can kill most people with 6 shots, but I can't do that while using the gun as it was inteaded without being down to my last 3 and the reload speed doesnt help

[ornate furnace]

I think they don't want too because it'll make it into a better demat probably

The only reason I rarely see demat is because (heal beam and turret are kinda just more useful if you're not very smart) making it do more dmg to terrain would kinda make demat useless

[dapper bear]

I don't know why they had to make the reload so slow the fire rate is already so slow that that if you made it have infinate ammo it would be just as effective if you don't account for destruction capabilities, you don't need more then 6 shots to kill one person

[ornate furnace]

I think bc of how strong it is, if they made the reload quicker they would either nerf its dmg or do something to fuck it over

[dapper bear]

I ASK FOR A TANK DYSTROYER AND THEY GAVE ME THIS!!! CURSE YOU GAME DEVS!!! I WILL NOT GO BACK TO C4 DAMN IT!!! GIVE ME MY DESIRED SHOTGUT!!!

[ornate furnace]

Lmfao

[dapper bear]

I'm not going back to c4 man, its worthless

if the answer to everything is a damn rpg, then heavy is overpowered every 45 seconds and then is just ok the rest of the time, I want world, where the KS-23 makes the rpg obsolite, because it would do the same thing, without a cool down. Instant big damage, destruction of property, fast projectile...perfection

and perhaps if I'm luck some better range damage

bring it back to 50ft gosh darn it, It takes skill to land slugs, it didn't need any more draw backs, you didn't even give it iron sights

[dapper bear]

doesn't demat also repair walls, or does it just remeterializes the places it already demterialized?

[ornate furnace]

Yeah

[dapper bear]

which one?

[dapper bear]

the second one?

[ornate furnace]

Both, it does both

Oh by repair you mean broken walls, no it doesn't repair broken walls just ones it demats

[dapper bear]

well I'd say that makes the demat exclusively better than the KS-23 cause you can close them after your done KS-23 can't do that so your enemy can use them holes too, even when you patch it with goo

[dapper bear]

do you agree that the KS-23 should one shot single goo balls?

[ornate furnace]

Mmmm....no, goo already has rare uses, making it worse is kinda bad

[dapper bear]

that's true

[dapper bear]

They should give lights in impact grenade that doesn't do alot of damage buts sends people flying everywhere so that he can seperate a group, and also fly

[ornate furnace]

That would be funny, I'd like that or a CC nade that slows pepwpel

[dapper bear]

That's to close to the glitch and zap gun, or do you mean a device that creates an area of effect for a period?

[ornate furnace]

Yeah, like soujorns area denial ability in overwatch

[final abyss]

what the best wep for a light build

[grave lark]

The finals has proven itself to be one of the most refreshing and defining games of the 21st century. The game still consists of a lot of issues and game breaking mechanics which hinders its ability to progress as a game.

The first is cheaters. A game filled with rampant cheating and infested corruption cannot be played with hearts full of joy and ambition. A game that does this to itself, is causing more pain and suffering amongst its audience

The second is lack of response. No response from the developers about key decisions and unique implementation to strengthen the community in itself is doing more harm than good. This should be resolved with clear and concise transparency.

By listening to our feedback, we hope the finals improves not only as a game, but a well known social phenomenon

[stone storm]

The finals stand out as one of the most invigorating and pivotal games of the 21st century. Yet, it grapples with persistent issues and disruptive mechanics that impede its evolution.

Firstly, the prevalence of cheaters tarnishes the spirit of fair play and dampens the enthusiasm of genuine players. Such widespread dishonesty and corruption breed discontent among the community.

Secondly, the lack of meaningful engagement from developers on critical matters and innovative enhancements stifles the game's potential for growth. Transparency and responsiveness are imperative to foster a thriving community.

By heeding our feedback, we envision the finals not only advancing as a game but also transcending into a renowned cultural phenomenon.

[steady wave]

93r trash

[ornate furnace]

Valid, Its just the worse version of the silenced pistol, less accurate, and 1 less bullet in the mag, they both do the same damage only difference is its ttk due to burst

[wide thunder]

for the sake of my sanity we gotta do something about the pure amount of invis lights in the game im gaining schizophrenia from them just constantly shooting me in the ass.

chat my enemies are in the walls

https://tenor.com/view/alaynakitty-gif-26303579

[alpine fern]

My favorite gun it's a beamer

[steady wave]

then u should support buffing the weapon

[alpine fern]

idk if the gun needs a buff i think hard counters are just to strong against a close range light build

[slim linden]

Agreed

[worldly forum]

i can almost taste the finish line...... soooo close

[steady wave]

imean m11 is stronger than 93r in close range in my opinino

[alpine fern]

i like my chances with the 93r vs any gun the light has the issue is light as a class is out classed by its peers tenfold

[arctic pecan]

Sword! Been loving it lately

[naive lintel]

I posted in feedback but I thought y'all here might enjoy this...

Hello Embark!
I am one of your frequent players who loves the game and wishes it a very bright future. Just wanted to make an exhaustive list of equipment QOL changes that I think would make the game more fun. I hope you and anyone else reading enjoys my takes.

All guns - I'm not saying add a full attachment system, because the simplicity is nice, but at least let us choose sights and reticles. At minimum, please reduce the thickness of iron sights.

Grappling hook - Change it to a meter based on grapple distance instead of a single rechargeable use.
Adjust the rope
to wrap around objects so that the player has more control over angle of entry.

Dagger - Increase backstab lunge distance so that the weapon is not useless outside of pointblank range.

Riot shield - Too easy to kite, please add a aim+fire input for a shield bash lunge, even for low damage or even just knockback.

MGL32 - Please allow for alternate fire modes. Aim+Fire=timer grenades, Hipfire=Ricochet Grenades

Goo Gun - Please allow holdfire to create lines of goo rather than individual goo balls based on aim direction.

Breach charge + C4 - Please allow a hotkey input (such as double reload) to trigger placed explosives.

Frag grenade - Please implement cooking grenades. Also please implement pinpulled martyrdom grenade drops.

Goo grenade - please allow an alternate throw input that allows "caltrop" formations for better funneling methods.

Pyro grenades, mines, and thrower - Please allow vertical flame spread for more interesting use of fire in general.

Thermal vision - Please either remove blackout of all elements besides players/interactables, or otherwise increase contrast of environment edges for better spatial awareness.

Due to character limits, I must continue my exhaustive equipment QOL suggestions in a second post.

Stungun - This one requires a more specific explanation, but after some thought, I think the best way to fix it would be to make it work like IRL tazers. I.E. You hold fire for as long as you want the effect to last. This would allow solos to use it as an interrupt still (stop steals, rez, object carry etc) but also require a teammate to be nearby to get damage potential out of it.

Mines - allow the player placing them to see the trigger cone as an outline.

Jump pads - like turret direction cycling, allow the player to cycle through various pads mounted on ramp blocks for directionally engaged jump pads.

All gadgets with reload animations - Add a 0/1, 1/1, 0/0, indicator to the UI widget so that players know that they need to reload their equipment before firing.

Defib - It's in a good place for the most part, but PLEASE refill defibbed players magazines. Most people die mid-firefight, and an empty or half-empty clip will often kill a revived player who is unaware of their clip status before their next firefight. Yes, we do learn to clip check, but it is an unnecessary inconvenience.

Barricade - Allow barricades to stack 2-high for better angling defense.

Additionally I would like to suggest caltrops as a deployable equipment. Either slows or damages or both, just in general ground based area denial is a little bit lacking atm.

Environment - slightly increase environment hitboxes so that taking cover feels more responsive and natural.

[rapid flicker]

Anyone know the exact number for how much hp a heal beam can heal before hitting the cooldown?

[naive lintel]

I believe it is 300, but sum 1 correct me if wrong

[rapid flicker]

Sounds about right, I can just about fully heal a heavy before hitting CD

[last solar]

The revolver need accuracy buff. It really hard to use when it losses ads accuracy after u shot and u need to wait till it accurate again

[spice dove]

fr especially the range damage

[ocean osprey]

suggestion: toast skin for the throwing knives 🍞 🔥

[silver fjord]

My favourite gadget is the barricade

[vapid parcel]

What should i be using for medium build

[restive plover]

The scar, jump pad/Zipline, defibrillator, and whatever you want in the extra slot.

[supple oracle]

Why can't people just play around with the weapons and gadgets and decide for themselfs?,jeez

[mellow lodge]

people like using the meta so they feel like they are more helpful and doing more for the team

tis the reason why i started using cloak mp5 again, was being more helpful to my friends than when i was running tk, sword and dagger

[supple oracle]

Cringe mentality, but to each their own

[mellow lodge]

it's cringe to want to help your teammates more?

[supple oracle]

no, its cringe to never decide for yourself what you want to use, always asking others first

[mellow lodge]

ah thats what you meant

[supple oracle]

well, what else would i have meant it?

[mellow lodge]

this, as i didn't know what you meant

[supple oracle]

i thought i made it clear in the "decide for themselfs" part, ill make sure to provide more context next time

Not...being passive aggressive if it came out that way

[mellow lodge]

no worries thanks for clarifying

[supple oracle]

if only THE FINALS had Deep rock galactic levels of balance so that the normal community response was "Whatever you like"

but thats comparing a PvE Game to PvP

[sleek pond]

wow very wholesome interaction

[mellow lodge]

yeah but even in helldivers 2 a pve game people still get mad at you for running the non good weapons

it's really just a case of a meta should be defined but it shouldn't overpower it so much

[sleek pond]

we are not rich 🙏

[mellow lodge]

like light for example is in a really good state for it's meta option imo

[supple oracle]

i wouldn't call infuriating gadgets and specializations "good state"

[mellow lodge]

fair but i mean for how many options

[supple oracle]

ah

[sleek pond]

medium is in good state you can use any specialization and any weapon and its pretty good , but light is kinda carried by invis

[mellow lodge]

light still fucking infuriating that's why i only use my stuns on heavies and for point defense, keeping people from loosing their minds

[mellow lodge]

yeah but the problem with medium is there is genuinely no reason to not use the fcar other than fun

[dense kiln]

Can heavy get a claymore (sword)?

[sleek pond]

im having fun with the famas idc about the meta every weapon in mediums kit is viable besides riot shield

[mellow lodge]

don't say this in medium chat you'll anger a lot of people as they love riot

but also you did say you are using famas as it's fun

[supple oracle]

Been using red canister as a one-time ranged option when using the riot shield

That red canister damage on a direct hit is not something to overlook...ill be bringin data reshaper more often now

[sleek pond]

they nerfed the travel speed tho

[supple oracle]

And?

still hits hard

[sleek pond]

and data reshaper is atrocious because it is one time use

[supple oracle]

don't care

[north junco]

that stun gun suggestion is really good. right now its so unfun to fight but your idea keeps its ulity while making it a more team oriented tool as far as kills are concirned (not just a death sentence button)

[viscid depot]

real, famas is pretty fun but i love the 1887

[pallid epoch]

This probably isn't the right channel to do this, but I wanna suggest a gadget and a change. I would make it so the demat for medium counts as destruction, so you can break buildings n shit with it. I would also add a gadget for heavy that makes walls undestrucible. The gadget would only make the wall unbreakable from one side, so if you go to the other side of the wall and destroy the reinforcements the wall will be able to be broken again. It will kinda look like a rainbow six seige reinforced wall. Maybe a heavy can place like 4 or 3 at a time idk.

[fleet brook]

Is the flamethrower even a viable option for heavies?

I have a challenge to do fire damage and I was wondering if it's good?

[fleet brook]

Arena altercation seems to be the mediums thing I don't think lights have any arena altercation (besides breach charge) and heavy is destructible not anti destructible

Oh and goo gun but like pyro grenades exist and fire barrels

[pallid epoch]

Heavy has a lot of defense options though. If heavy has a barrier and dome shield, if they added wall reinforcements, heavy should have it.

[fleet brook]

Fair I also feel like destruction is such a dynamic part of gameplay and it's the only way to counter some things (mediums that build a fortress) that I wouldn't like to see it restricted

H M M is already common and that would reinforce it (pun intended)

[ocean osprey]

[obtuse cove]

It's cringe to want synergy?

[sleek pond]

kinda , but its fun

[obtuse cove]

Power shift, yes

[ocean osprey]

I love team work... if it's cringe to work towards a common goal and find a role that better suits "the objective", then I wanna be king cringe

[obtuse cove]

Same here, It's beautiful when the entire team on the same page without verbal confirmation

[ocean osprey]

Team and I had 2 seconds to make a comeback, enemy is passing the power shift finish line and we swarm... none of us had an insane kill streak but we mobbed... stayed on that baby and the other team never came back on. people getting buffed, revived, people shooting, we knew what we needed to do (no one ran off trying to kill someone who wasn't in our way 😂 ). Poetry in motion

[dapper bear]

I play mostly casual solo que and the vast majority of people either play lights or mediums and I'm the only heavy. but I don't play the domination builds I go KS-23, goo gun, anti grave, and rpg and I just steal the cash out while the rest are busy killing each other. killing people is cool but winning requires an objective to be won.

[obtuse cove]

Played QC, heavy was playing bad and left. For some reason we weren't getting a replacement ?? Solo q 2v3
2 cash outs in a row with an unreasonably hectic last cash out to complete the shut out

[ocean osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-revenge-of-sith-anakin-vader-darth-vader-gif-19644107

damn forgot I don't have perms

[ocean osprey]

but yeah, these leave me feeling like the most competent imposter in the world

[obtuse cove]

I have no clue how to play this game, I just run around and play like a cockroach

[ocean osprey]

cockroaches are notoriously difficult to get rid of 😎 stay scurrying

[obtuse cove]

Cockroaches are extremely weak to flames

[fleet brook]

Is there any other meme TF2 builds I can make besides spy

Any other characters mind you if so the load out would help alot

[small flicker]

pyro (with flamethrower on heavy)

medic (with healing beam)

[fleet brook]

Oh I mean full load outs but yeah

[small flicker]

oh i mean other than their signature ability/weapon, not really sure

[fleet brook]

I could see pyro heavy with

Pyro grenades

Flamethrower

Not a lot of other util that fits pyro theme

[small flicker]

you could make the argument the pyro grenade on light is the sniper's grenade lmao

[fleet brook]

Maybe rpg to fit being a engineers nightmare

[small flicker]

for my arsonist build, i do

goo gun, flamethrower
pyro grenade, pyro mine, goo grenade

goo to trap them, fire to free them (and kill them)

[hallow leaf]

Pyro mine?

[fleet brook]

Goo gun is smart

[small flicker]

also goo makes a good shield on power shift when youre facing those pesky snipers

[fleet brook]

Oh yeah my b so

Flame thrower

Goo gun

Pyro grenade

Pyro mine

Last peice of util any ideas?

[small flicker]

goo grenade ig

[hallow leaf]

One pyro and it's all gone

[fleet brook]

Thx for the ideas

[small flicker]

you start off with 2 goo

[fleet brook]

The heavy pyro will soon be terrorizing cash out (or power shift depends where it works best)

[small flicker]

walk to the non burning side of the plat and throw down the other

[hallow leaf]

I would love to see pyro grenade and mine get a buff along with the revolver

[small flicker]

same (i cant aim to save my life with the revolver anyways)

[hallow leaf]

I just find it weird that it's the most still based weapon for medium and it's gets outshined by the shotgun and cl40

[fleet brook]

I can aim the first shot just against heavies it's meh and against lights if the first shot isn't to the head o think they out ttk you

[small flicker]

i use cl40 for powershift and akm for anything else

[hallow leaf]

The revolver needs like 1-2 more damage per shot and better range, like come on if you are able to snipe with the iron sights on it you should be rewarded

[small flicker]

i think it having 74 damage was intentional so you couldnt 1shot headshot a light, but i wish it had 75 damage per shot too

[hallow leaf]

It's a close to mid range weapon currently and it gets outshined by the shotgun that is also a close to mid range weapon

[small flicker]

i agree shotgun is more fun than revolver imo

[hallow leaf]

Honestly I would love to be able to oneshot a light

[small flicker]

same i was salty when they nerfed rpg to 140

[hallow leaf]

I pair the revolver with the pyro grenade

[small flicker]

its satisfying oneshotting a light at full with a rocket

[hallow leaf]

It works really well, and man the pyro grenade is so versatile and if you directly hit someone with it it actually sticks to them and stays on them for the full duration

[small flicker]

yeah i run pyro on my light for that reason

[hallow leaf]

All pyro needs is a damage buff and it would be perfect

I personally use it over gas grenades because of how many people use gas it's so nice to be able to just immediately get rid of it

[small flicker]

i use it for 3 main reasons actually

1. damage over time
2. area denial (can throw it below cashout to set it on fire)
3. area entry (a lot of teams goo off entries to the obj, have no other way to get in)

yeah thats also good

[hallow leaf]

It gets rid of goo, it breaks on impact, it removes gas, it triggers mines,

[small flicker]

it spreads on flammable objects

more area to burn >:)

[hallow leaf]

It sticks to surfaces

For example if you throw a pryo on a platform it stays on the platform and gas stays in the area so the platform will leave the gas but the pyro will stay on the platform and move with it

[small flicker]

yea

[hallow leaf]

Another thing that's needs buffed is smoke

Smoke should completely disable flamethrower

[small flicker]

i think thats a little too extreme

as is it feels like it lowers the range to "must be pointblank in front of the nozzle"

[naive iris]

Man why are the servers so damn bad 😭

[lapis ravine]

dash is best

[shrewd orchid]

grapple is better

[restive plover]

The Model 1887 needs a reload buff, it's too slow

[final lotus]

Smoke already provides enough counterplay to flamethrower since the direct damage is already low, the main damage from the flamethrower comes from the DoT which is completely negated by smoke.

[dusky wren]

NO

[viscid depot]

i disagree, its already very good

[final lotus]

A few outrageous gadget ideas.

• Data Disguiser | Light
  Activate on an arena carriable to instantly disguise as it.

  • Moving causes the disguise to become less effective

• Attacking or taking damage removes your disguise

• Your hitbox does not change

• 30 second cooldown

• Repulsion Grenade | Light - Medium
  Sticky grenade that exerts a large non-lethal blast, causing extreme knockback the closer you are.

• Affects contestants, carriables, and cashout stations

• Knockback increases the closer you are to the epicentre

• 20 second cooldown

• Healing Grenade | Light - Medium
  Throwable grenade explodes on impact and instantly restores 20% health to you and your allies, creates an aura that allows you and your team to heal sooner and at a faster rate the longer you remain inside.

• 15 second duration

• 7m radius

• Does not affect enemies

• 30 second cooldown

• Impact Grenade | Medium
  Throwable grenade explodes on impact.

• 5m radius

• Min damage 40

• Max damage 100

• 2 grenades

• Breaks surfaces in one shot

• 20 second cooldown

[brave narwhal]

Healing grenade seems too much for lights, esp if it doesn't effect enemies. it'd just make lights 100% more of a pain to deal with or chase down.

[restive plover]

Imagine seeing a gas canister run at you full tilt.

[brave narwhal]

I do love the prop disguise idea lmao

Omg imagine it let's your team mates pick you up and throw you 💀

[final lotus]

In what way? They have to be inside the healing aura for a while to get use out of it, and since the aura is visible, it actually would make tracking down lights easier.

It's also a great way for lights to support their team, as well as medium having access to it too.

[brave narwhal]

The 20% initial heal is enough for an annoying flanker to use when fleeing, and sitting still in an aura really goes against lights playstyle, especially with their low health. Lights are best when they're off objective and ready to flank.

[final lotus]

I'm just gonna have to disagree with that statement, I don't think lights are gonna be sitting still when they have 7m to move around in. 20% is 30 health for light which is enough to survive one extra bullet all full autos. So again, I still can't understand why it's annoying.

[robust flower]

They should add a musket to the game for medium for the giggles

[onyx zealot]

solid ideas, for impact grenades why would someone run this over normal grenades though? Normal nades have a short enough fuse time idk if most would sacrifice large damage and a full extra nade (assuming from the post you can only hold 1 impact)

for healing nade, would be the first ability to have healing attached with it. Do you think this might cause a more grouped up meta and might reduce the importance of having a healing beam? It's an interesting idea and I think they'll eventually make a healing gadget anyways, would be interesting to see how gameplay changes when light can now fully heal themselves solo (possibly promoting lurking more)

[inland nova]

are smoke gernades ever gonna get a buff or smth

[final lotus]

You have 2, I should have stated this, the idea is to help finish of enemies if you have to reload, something that frag can't do, for the situations you can't shoot and need immediate damage, also something good for shielders to use where enemies can simply run away to counter you.

[onyx zealot]

I see, I was thinking of impact nades more from a standpoint of being utility than damage (such as immediately destroying goo, or getting rid of dome shields). For sure can have its uses for raw damage, however might be annoying to play against mediums who have 2 small rpgs in their pocket (100 damage might be a lot)

[final lotus]

I would probably give it bonus destruction damage so you can open up walls too

[onyx zealot]

yea, I think if they could destroy walls that would be a large enough differentiation from frags that could make it a valid choice (since I believe frags cant destroy walls)

[final lotus]

Sweet

[final lotus]

They would be a lot slower than RPGs in terms of projectile speed and the time it takes to switch to the grenade and throw it, though it's something you'd only know through play testing.

[onyx zealot]

yea, plus 2 direct hits should deal less than 200 anyways due to the explosion stack nerf

[final lotus]

100 damage would be within like 1m of the player

I think it could work really well with demat too, you can dmat the ceiling and throw it down to get some decent damage in, I'm all for nerfing the max damage to whatever would work, I just think having the utility of instant splash damage is nice.

[onyx zealot]

yea, I think mediums also having a fast and immediate way to destroy walls & goo could add a lot of utility as well (similar to using demat)

[final lotus]

I would keep the radius low to compensate, I think 5m is smaller than frag

[tacit cairn]

How do you think they could tweak it from here? Maybe increase smoke cover?

[final lotus]

The problem with smoke is that they are too inconsistent, from long range they are easy to see through, and when you're inside the smoke, it either does an amazing job of concealing everything, or you can see outlines very easily.

My suggestions for smoke are to make them consistent, and also give immunity to all detection sources while inside the smoke cloud.

[inland nova]

you can see through the smoke if your in it rn and blindly shooting throught it highlights smoneones name when you hit someone so it works vert raaely when i use ut

also thermal vision doesnt see invivsible people

[sullen tree]

I love the data disguiser

[robust token]

yeah

[restive plover]

hey how much messages do you need to send images

[final lotus]

Too many

[restive plover]

god

[final lotus]

dog

[restive plover]

well anyways my team excluded everyyone was a light like the entire lobby while my team had two mediums and i was the only heavy

[final lotus]

Well okay then

[sullen tree]

https://tenor.com/view/friends-ross-geller-david-schwimmer-drink-a-lot-gif-15947149

[restive plover]

I don't think so, but I still respect your opinion

[rough carbon]

they were on a break

[minor stream]

bleb

[restive plover]

I think Medium class is too versatile, they can do DPS, Support, and Team Mobility, all in the same breath, and it's because of this that light as a class is suffering as medium outperforms them simply because mediums can do 3 things all at once, the question is what role should be taken from the Medium class and given to the lights? There are three things possible.

1. We give Lights healing beam (to replace invis perhaps) and Defib, this would make the lights have a more defined role without taking anything away from medium class, because at the end of the day, Medium has APS turret, zipline, bounce pad, gas mine, dematerializer, FCar and AKM, I think they'd be fine.

2. We give Lights zipline and jump pad. Lights already have a gateway, so giving them zipline and jumpad wouldn't really be as far-fetched as the first option. And again, the Medium class would still have heal beam, defib, and every other gadget in their kit that isn't zipline or jump pad.

3. We give Lights a new and unique role that hasn't been introduced in the game yet. This one is a lot more complicated, but if Embark don't want to take away and give any gadgets from the medium class to the Lights, then this is the only other option. In order for lights to be viable, they need to play a role that no other class can play and/or replicate to the point where the class replicating the playstyle is better at it than the Lights. Again, I have no exact clue on what new and unique role could be introduced into the game and given to the light class, but whatever role that is, the lights have to be the only class that can fill that role if they want any chance at being better at something than the medium class thus making their role unique only to them.

[odd wren]

Well if we are speaking roles mabye a spy gadget like in TF2 where you can shape shift this would be useful in powershift. Or we do already have intel role but the could add different types of drones like flying ones normal ones and mabye even slow one that have turrets. Final one, a hacker gadget so you can hack drones and turrets and mabye even cashouts within a ten metre radius but it takes 1.5× longer and marks you

[restive plover]

Making lights an intel/recon role ain't a bad idea

[odd wren]

Yeah because they're weak and fast so once they ping someone on a drone they can get there very quick and also have the upper hand

[restive plover]

A drone in it of itself would just have to be a spec

and lights have sonar grenade now so transforming them into the intel role isn't abnormal at all

[rough carbon]

I had a friend say the Dead Ringer (Feign Death) should be in The Finals

[zealous timber]

This would eliminate the "virtual" role of the game

[restive plover]

which part? the shapeshift?

[zealous timber]

Nope the drones

The shapeshift would be kinda meh tho cuz in the finals its easy to spot your teammates

[restive plover]

how exactly would drones deviate from the main theme though

I mean turrets are more machine and they are integrated well in this virtual world

[small flicker]

embark was already trying to pivot light as a scout/recon role by giving them sonar grenade and tracking dart, and removing them from medium in the season 2 initial update

[restive plover]

my main concern is if that'll be enough to make them have a definitve place in a team comp

because at the end of the day the Mediums would still have team mobility, and support like heal beam

[small flicker]

fair enough, when i play light my job is to annoy the enemy team. flank and eliminate solo players who wander from their team, or stun gun the guy trying to steal cashout at last second. i dont necessarily work with my team unless we are planning on stealing a cashout or our cashout is being stolen (but then again i play light mainly on powershift lol)

[mellow lodge]

if it was added it would do literally nothing as light doesn't touch sonar so i dont think a dronne would be used over an of the gadget and if it's a spec it wouldn't be taken over cloak

[restive plover]

maybe lights should be given team mobility gadgets like zipline and bounce pad, they already have gateway

[restive plover]

perhaps drone replace cloak

[small flicker]

wouldnt be against that as long as medium got gadgets to compensate for losing their only mobility gadgets

[restive plover]

medium has aps turret, heal beam, defib, and Dematerializer, I think they'll be fine

[small flicker]

you cant use demat and healing beam together tho, itd be broken if you could and id understand your issue with it

[restive plover]

no i just mean as options not used together

point is Medium would still be a staple even without zip and bounce

[small flicker]

fair enough, i just dont want there to be an imbalance where one class has more gadgets to pick from than any other

[restive plover]

well as it stands right now Medium has more gadgets than light

Medium has 16 while Light has 14

which also goes to show that Medium has more options than light

and even though light is only two gadgets off most of their gadgets are consistent with the assassin playstyle

[unkempt ginkgo]

what are the best rifles in the game >?

[small flicker]

well then, youve convinced me giving jump pad and zipline would be a good idea lol

[restive plover]

all rifles are used by Medium, and the best rifle of the three is FCAR

[unkempt ginkgo]

thats the one im using

[small flicker]

FCAR if you can hit your shots*

[unkempt ginkgo]

but the clip is too small barely kills 1 guy

[restive plover]

well if you want more ammunition there's AKM

just less damage per bullet

[small flicker]

its 25 damage/shot with 20 shots, thats enough to kill every class from full in one magazine

[restive plover]

nice now all we gotta do is hope the devs see the suggestion, also if the devs are reading this give lights 25 extra hp

[unkempt ginkgo]

and if its a heavy youd need 2

[mellow lodge]

then light would be more useless in ranked

[small flicker]

25*20 > 350?

unless hes being heal beamed or hes across the map ig then yea

they nerfed the fcar to have diminishing returns over longer distances i think (and maybe harder to control recoil?)

[small flicker]

idk how i feel about the hp increase, lights are supposed to be glass cannons

[onyx zealot]

this specifically, light would then be the only class who can move heavies

[onyx zealot]

for 1, light (imo) is supposed to be an initiator and lurker, giving them defib and healing beam would force them to stick close to the team which denies any flanking / lurking opportunities, one of the main purposes of light.

[small flicker]

thats why i didnt agree with giving them defib and heal

[onyx zealot]

ngl I didnt read above, what were the points for giving jump pad and zip to light?

[mellow lodge]

yeah but rn lights are only the glass part

[small flicker]

lights have the best dps weapons in the entire game lol what

[mellow lodge]

fcar would like to have a word with you

[restive plover]

lights already have gateway, so why not make them in charge of team mobility

[small flicker]

sh1900 and backstab dagger (either into melee) would like to have a word with you

[onyx zealot]

why does team mobility all have to be on 1 class?

[mellow lodge]

you mean the sh1900 that can no longer kill a heavy and the dagger that doesn't work properly?

[restive plover]

give lights a better role

[onyx zealot]

they only have 3 gadgets, giving the responsibility of mobility might split light players into 2 playstyles which is probably against what finals wants to do atm

medium is the "support class", makes sense for them to also hold team mobility while light can have solo mobility

[small flicker]

320 damage + melee still kills heavy (for dagger), which youd alr be in melee range since youre using a melee weapon (im not sure what you mean by it not working properly)
same thing with shotgun, just melee after firing both your shots, you should be close enough that melee would be possible (and if youre not using shotgun in melee range you will miss shots and dont deserve the 2 shot + melee kill anyways)

also have you fired the m11 or xp54 before in game?

[mellow lodge]

sh1900 doesn't have enough damage to kill a heavy each shot is 150, quickmelee does 40 it's not enough to kill heavy, and https://discord.com/channels/1008696016318513243/1213572237941284864 there is a whole channel on why dagger doesn't work properly

[restive plover]

if medium is the support then they need to make Lights more definitively DPS, because Medium outclasses them on DPS with weapons like FCar

[mellow lodge]

also dps means jack shit in this game it's all about the ttk

[onyx zealot]

I still believe lights win against a medium on Fcar assuming light gets the drop on mediums (what they're supposed to do)

lights arent built to win head-on 1v1s against mediums or heavies

[mellow lodge]

lights are also barely able to win when they have the advantage thats why lights meta is what it is

if you want to be a good light that helps your team you gotta play it cloak and be like a rat

[onyx zealot]

I definitely wont deny that light is underpowered, however I still do think they have a real role ONLY when the light player is very good

idk it's a hard balancing act

[mellow lodge]

yep thats how it is, thats why people throw when they have a light on their team in ranked

[restive plover]

but even when that role is fulfilled it isn't a must have role

[onyx zealot]

yes this is true

wonder what ranked would be like if every team had to have only 1 of each class

[restive plover]

because even if the light manages to assainate, they can easily have one of the enemy teammates defib them back to life

[small flicker]

ok fair enough for dagger, ive not personally had that issue but im not going to wave it away but with shotgun 2 melees is only slightly slower than 1 melee

also the ttk for m11 and xp54 and v9s are on par with (or in v9s case better than) fcar

[mellow lodge]

m11 is actually the only one with a faster ttk

[onyx zealot]

well, that's utility down. It goes the same for a medium killing off someone early 🤷‍♂️

[small flicker]

really? im getting my info from the AIO spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17oI_V64feUYkiHrT5YGFE6kNGTCvfNaNiUiwrk9IITc/edit#gid=655924873

[onyx zealot]

make glitch nades deny ongoing defibs, surely that wont be overpowered

[restive plover]

well if you have a team of 3 mediums with everyone running defib one defib down isn't gonna mean too much

[onyx zealot]

I think this is just an issue with mediums rather than lights

[restive plover]

Again even if lights can successfully be assasins, if everyone takes a second to look at light they can kill him in less than two seconds

[mellow lodge]

that one is outdated and we have a guy in this server who has done the ttk's to like 7 decimal places, he also checked with the owner of the spreadsheet you showed

[small flicker]

where can i find that new one

[onyx zealot]

yea, hard imagining how balance works just due to how different the game plays in practice vs on paper

[mellow lodge]

he doesn't have a website up but i can send the images of the ttk's and yes the ttk is only like 0.003 faster but thats still faster

[restive plover]

besides, even if a light can drop 50+ kills, kills don't really mean shit in cashout, one can easily get 45 kills and still be fourth place

[small flicker]

thats an incredibly small difference, and we also have to account for the fact that in real gameplay the circumstances would be different. its much harder to hit a light than a medium, especially if the light has evasive dash or has stunned you

[mellow lodge]

yeah lights whole job is to play like a rat and defend cash out

[mellow lodge]

that also doesn't take into account the health difference and this is assuming the medium is not near their team

[small flicker]

if youre a light approaching 2 enemies on the same team or a full enemy team, youve already lost that lol

light does best flanking people who wander from their team imo, theyre not meant to solo 2+ people

[mellow lodge]

eh, a heavy or medium can do the same thing better

[restive plover]

which in essence doesn't make them good if there are two or more teammates present

[mellow lodge]

which in an objective game is almost always the case

lights job isn't to get kills, lights job is to defend cashout and play like a rat, it's just how the meta for light is and the only way they are viable and helpful to the team

[small flicker]

i guess but thats deviating from our original discussion of dps weapons, if it was a 1v1 light vs medium at close-mid range, id bet on the light winning

[mellow lodge]

then you would 100% lose that bet

medium has more health than light and a gun that has a higher ttk

even if you are stunned your hipfire will most likely kill the light

[restive plover]

the problem with the rat playstyle is that it is way too niched

[mellow lodge]

the problem with the rat style is it sucks to play and is bad for the game ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[restive plover]

basically yes, but it works a lot better in powershift, especially when you have snipers

[mellow lodge]

stun gun needs to be removed for light to get the buffs it needs

[small flicker]

i guess if the light isnt using their movement to the highest potential but that brings up a more complicated discussion about the average players skill level

[mellow lodge]

since i reckon thats why light kinda sucks rn, or rpg gets it's nerf and light becomes more viable

[restive plover]

it's kind of funny that everyone is more viable in powershift then in the core gamemode

[small flicker]

with stun gun and evasive dash i genuinely believe light could win out against med

[mellow lodge]

and now a medium that doesn't have the aim of a blind goldfish can still win that fight 7/10 times

[small flicker]

because power shift encourages camping (light sniper, medium healing whoevers on platform + aps, heavy dome + mesh shield)

[small flicker]

i dont think that statistic is fair to the light lol but im not good at this game anywhere so its possible

[mellow lodge]

do you play ranked or quickplay?

[small flicker]

i did ranked for the "win 1 tournament challenge" and got placed in gold 4, but mostly quickplay

[restive plover]

also I have a clip of me deomlishing a light player with fcar while stunned lol

[mellow lodge]

yeah in high elo even if you are a god at light you still get just destroyed by current meta

[onyx zealot]

I mean, skill issue on light's behalf 😭

[small flicker]

people should not be playing light in ranked imo

[restive plover]

he even flashed me beforehand

[mellow lodge]

yes as the class sucks

[small flicker]

also because of the playstyle it encourages

[mellow lodge]

yes thats why light needs a buff/rework

[restive plover]

they need more team orientation, especially for cashout

[mellow lodge]

but heavies playstyle isn't that much better

[small flicker]

heavy is probably my least favorite class

[mellow lodge]

thats what meta light is it's incredibly bad for the game with how it's being used for that team play

[restive plover]

I think we can all agree that playing away from your team is a deathwish

[small flicker]

light should be incentivized to stay with team and/or rewarded

[mellow lodge]

yes thats why the rat playstyle is what it is rn

cloak, mp5, stun, gateway, glitch. and you just shoot at people to annoy them, get them low for your team mate, glitch the heavy, stun the person stealing cashout, run away

[restive plover]

it only works on powershift when you have those snipers on crane killing you from 1000 miles away

[mellow lodge]

idk how light could be reworked i just want it to be reworked, but alas that will never happen

honestly so excited for this weeks patch notes to do literally nothing and be the same as the last 2 patches

[restive plover]

I definetly think that playing with your team when you have specs like invis is a death wish, because if your invis next to your team, the enemy will shoot bullets towards your team and one of those bullets is likely to hit you and break the invis

[mellow lodge]

yes thats why you play like a rat

it is the most viable and useful way too play it

[restive plover]

light is damned if they do and damned if they dont

[small flicker]

speaking of rats, i need a mouse costume for the light build

embark please give us a mouse mask

[restive plover]

like unless you're playing with some coordinated friends, you will have zero value playing light, and again, this is because they restrict light to an incredibly niched style, and give Medium too many playstyles

[small flicker]

on an unrelated note, 3 heavies with flamethrowers and mesh shield and dome shield = best ranked strat

[mellow lodge]

i think one of the major things for light is a single explosive gets them 1 tap to any bullet

[small flicker]

doesnt their own c4 one shot them

[mellow lodge]

nah it's MHH as you have the value of HHH because medium has defib but you also get a medium

[small flicker]

try the strat 🙏

[mellow lodge]

the one single full light team in ranked counters that squad 😂

[small flicker]

that team doesnt want to win they just want to inflict pain

[velvet flicker]

I agree

[mint hemlock]

man i wish it was possible to run like half the stuff in this game

[compact linden]

Uhhhhh why exactly does data reshaper only get 25 xp per use? It will take ages to get it to level 5. All other gadgets that get xp per use have 100 - 150. At least it should take into account how many objects you use it on at once

[steady matrix]

I haven't tested it for an actual xp count but it is a nightmare upgrading the gateways.

[stone fractal]

aps also takes forever

[timber flare]

pls add rubiks cube skin for grav cube

[dire wharf]

we need a rubix cute emote

so beast mode bro

[timber flare]

i would empty my wallet for that

[amber cloak]

Sys needs more variation, like how Monaco seoul and skyway get different modifiers that aren't weather

[whole prairie]

rainstorms inside, clear skies outside

[naive lintel]

Hell yeah, play up the glitchiness variable weather based on which colored section you are in sounds lit

[spring swallow]

im fr just trying to lvl up

wonder how long it takes

[round bone]

Gnome.

[full moss]

Hello

[sturdy cairn]

add bonk atomic punch from tf2 so i win a argument with my friend

[dusty bison]

Does the flamethrower damage thru shields? Like mesh shield and dome shield?

[primal sparrow]

I think it does, just only at close distance in my experience

[errant eagle]

add bonk atomic punch from tf2 so i win a argument with my friend

Hello

[dusty bison]

oh rly so u can shoot thru shields if u are at the right range? weird

[primal sparrow]

I think the flamethrower has a stream of flame that will penetrate shields but the tail of fire at the end won't.

[viscid depot]

m11 kinda needs a nerf. it's STUPID strong

[dusty bison]

as in like the end of the flames where the smoke is? i dont think that part does damage anyway, its fairly short range

[compact linden]

Yeah they recently changed aps from 100 for placing to 50 (?) Per destroyed projectile

[viscid depot]

THEY NEED TO FIX THE APS TURRET ☠️ destroying grenades and mines makes sense but rpgs and grenade launchers is game breakingly op

all snipers. all minimal objective score.

#👂┇game-feedback message

[proud schooner]

i'm having a super weird issue when whenever I ads with the r.357 sometimes it just puts the sights away and goes hipfire even though I don't let go of my RMB or anything. never happened to any other weapons

[proud schooner]

also LITERALLY any light weapon amkes r.357 unplayable.

[fast mulch]

It does feel off for me tbh

[proud schooner]

also another issue that i've had for 500 hours and it's so annoying
when you throw your second grenade immediately after the first
you can't aim
it just throws it immediately

[fast mulch]

Nah that's fax tho

[somber burrow]

are there specific things that level up the data reshaper faster?

[unreal oar]

Morning devs, what do you think about a blue dot holographic on the diamond skin FCAR

[keen thicket]

What if they added nunchucks to light or medium

Or nunchucks to light and bo staff to medium or vice versa

[topaz sparrow]

Then we'd have more useless melee weapons nobody would use

[rough carbon]

Nunchucks could be a dagger skin with different animation

[plush hinge]

Just destroy it XD if there was a time and place where you couldn't, that means the opposing medium(s) did an awsome play with it, nothing gamebreaking about that #skillissue

[plush hinge]

It's also has a ton of visual recoil, in good hands it should be strong #skillissue

[plush hinge]

You don't.. #skillissue

I'm sorry for being the villain here, if you recognize that the only meta is cold steel nerves, good practice and having voice chat enabled then what people call "meta" isn't really meta, just your comfort zone

[mellow lodge]

so you believe this game doesn't have a meta? even though it 100% does

there are clearly things way better than other things, that means there is a meta

[plush hinge]

No, of course by the agreed defintion of meta, it does, but I'm trying to imply the sky is the limit if you stay open to experimentation and have a good skillset

[mellow lodge]

yeah of course, but light is still heavily oppressed by the other classes in this game

[plush hinge]

try me

[mellow lodge]

you can be an amazing light player, but oh whats this, 140 damage rpg say bye bye to health

[plush hinge]

remember the name "Bunny"

[mellow lodge]

huh?

[plush hinge]

😉

[mellow lodge]

???

[supple oracle]

Lights like these infuriates, Sniper lights on my team are never helping on a firefight nor when trying to capture a objective

[whole star]

give lights a bad name its sad

[whole star]

i mean that is part of being a good light player positioning and having stun up for heavies

[mellow lodge]

true, but then you in range for shotgun abuse

[whole star]

i only play mp5 and as long as you space heavies are never a problem ovbisously there is the odd RPG but thats just life

medium grenade launchers are what piss me off

[fleet brook]

Why

[whole star]

I dont like heavy aswell because I just love the fast paced movement

[plush hinge]

@mellow lodge and many others have yet to pierce the veil @whole star , let them linger in disbelief

[fleet brook]

As a person who plays both heavy and light (was a medium main for a bit)

Mesh sheild

(If they want to burn one) Dome

Barricade mid fight

Charge + close range weapon

[plush hinge]

All that matters is who's on the winning side in the end

[whole star]

glitch grenade sorts most of that out

and cloak to reposition

[plush hinge]

If a master light wants you eliminated, you are eliminated. No discussion.

[mellow lodge]

ok so then why are the top players in the world not having a light on their team

[supple oracle]

worse is when you DO get to defend the cashout, but then the sniper light never takes advantage of its long range to be away from harms away and defend the cashout from any capturers

[whole star]

light is quite easy to counter - you just need to stay as a pair or 3 together but no one does it

[whole star]

because it doesnt make sense in a scrim format where everyone is on comms and sweating their balls off with explo and site setups its just not viable - but it is fucking fun to play and very easy to frag out in ranked

[supple oracle]

Lights that dont use grappling hooks when using snipers are gimping their weapon effectiveness in my book

[fleet brook]

Medium+ heavy laughing

[mellow lodge]

so a light is going to get destroyed by that?

[plush hinge]

both eliminated, but still laughing*

[whole star]

yes light is the worst class at high level - @mellow lodge are you playing in diamond/top 500

[fleet brook]

Also lights loose most encounters vs an equally skilled heavy and if not the heavy shouldn't be rolling around alone

[plush hinge]

If you're not hugging, you're dying

[whole star]

I can easily and consistently drop 50/60 kill with 10-15 deaths ranked games as light in high gold they are very viable in normal mid ranks

[fleet brook]

Also most heavy weapons 2 shot lights

[plush hinge]

they don't, don't speak in absolutes please

[fleet brook]

Well burst

And if they're with a medium revolver 2 shots

[whole star]

not if they are stunned and spaced

[fleet brook]

Where are you catching these heavies alone ?

[plush hinge]

revolver 3 shots

[mellow lodge]

i don't but most of the conversation involving balance mean diamond lobbies as thats where it matters most

[plush hinge]

2 shots if you score a headshot, good luck with that

[fleet brook]

Headshot? Unless person shoots center mass

[plush hinge]

there's a difference between shooting and hitting your shot*

[fleet brook]

Sounds like you have bad aim + a skill issue on heavy

No offense I stopped my sweating a while back to play meme builds and even my meme heavy can kill a light pretty consistently

Also I don't play alone when I'm playing heavy that's just a death sentence

[supple oracle]

im sorry, how is this distinction relevant?, "You can 2 shot a light with KS-23" Still means light dies with 2 shots or in your definition HITTING 2 shots

i am just genuinely confused why make that distinction

[fleet brook]

Also repositioning with invis maybe it's the paranoia but I've become very good at tracking that reflection

Maybe it was all those light v light matchups

[plush hinge]

Well I'm sorry that the point i was trying to make completely went over your head (if you don't get it now, then I'd rather digress)

[fleet brook]

Also if you hit them whilst they try to invis it breaks it

Also most light weapons require two clips to fully kill a heavy no HS so I have Enough time to react

[supple oracle]

and you dont help clarify it either, so you're just pulling shit of your ass trying to sound smart...i'm guessing

[fleet brook]

Sniper lights are annoying but usually I trust my team to go after them (or the rest of the lobby as they slowly turn it from a 3v3v3v3 into three teams vs sniper team)

[plush hinge]

fine by me

[fleet brook]

Also getting away from a flame thrower heavy with invis is hell

Also I'll always burn my rpg over dying if I'm playing serious I have multiple destruction methods

[supple oracle]

Now this is just untrue, No light weapons require 2 mags to kill a heavy from 350 to 0

well, except weapons like sword and throwing knifes, they dont really reload

[fleet brook]

Body shots I wasn't counting headshots

And to clarify when I say two clips I mean

One reload at least

[deep inlet]

Kinda on-topic but kinda off-topic, is there a specific reason why Light has more stuff over-all than the other two classes? I mostly play Light so it's not like I mind, I just find it strange. I feel like, if anything, Medium should have the most options since it's like the middle-ground

[latent jewel]

running sniper is so much freaking fun

[fleet brook]

Tartarus awaits your arrival (jk)

Also unless you have movement selected

Be prepared for the medium or the heavies light to get the refrag especially if the enemy light has heat vision

[supple oracle]

even with bodyshots?, they can still statistically kill from 350 to 0 on bodyshots in one mag

But yes, i understand what you mean that circumstances like missing shots, shots blocked by barricade and shields, or heavy being healed are taken into your account

just not true they need 2 mags to do 350 damage though

[fleet brook]

Fair and true I was thinking of in game scenarios as unless you're hosted missing shots especially on light weapons is only natural

Off topic finally found a use for a gravity cube

[hallow leaf]

idk imo if you are using the revolver you should be going for headshots, if not just just the shotgun

[supple oracle]

@rough carbon not my problem, LFG channel exists

be happy embark atleast added a Deathmatch mode

[fleet brook]

Turn building into rubble running maximum destruction and then destroy the battlefield making alot of cover instantly and disrupting the battlefield

[hallow leaf]

if you are using the revolver and going for body shots at that point you are just using a worse shotgun

[fleet brook]

Or making a ship out of a broken peice of environment

[fleet brook]

I usually aim for the head unless I'm using shotguns aiming center mass is unnatural for me

[supple oracle]

hmm, would have to play with that mindset myself to see if it will fit me

[supple oracle]

you can send image as a yellow?!

[mellow lodge]

just no gif i believe

[rough carbon]

How about a canister launcher for heavy that mimics the junk jet/rock-it launcher from fallout, you have to scavenge your ammo with a max cap of 6 or 8

Would be cool if it had a hoover mode that absorbed all canisters in the area even ones thrown at the heavy

[hallow leaf]

revolver needs more range and 1 more damage per shot

[gritty sail]

why does the sword have a cs bit on it? I'd take a screenshot but I don't think I have the perms

[supple oracle]

revolver range IS trash, and i do not understand why, it should be the best ranged weapon for medium second best being FAMAS

[wise briar]

Since no one is using tracking dart. Like at all. Why not add a stun effect on darts when hit

[supple oracle]

NO

I USE TRACKING DART ALL THE TIME AND ITS FINE

[hallow leaf]

It's falloff starts at like 20m and is maxed out at 40m and it should start at 40m and max at 60m

It's damage basically starts to fall off right as it leaves the fucking barrel

Would have more range with a slingshot

[fleet brook]

What's the best close range weapon for mediums?

[hallow leaf]

Riot shield

Can't get any more close range then that

[fleet brook]

That isn't a degenerate weapon (I refuse to use sheilds in any game I play unless it's R6 Monty)

[hallow leaf]

Then the shotgun

[supple oracle]

i mean, he aint wrong...

[hallow leaf]

The shotgun is slept on, everyone seems to be using the fcar

[fleet brook]

Also it would be interesting if the sniper was on the medium instead of light mediums have a harder time getting to there sniper spot so it wouldn't be as easy for them to just jump off and then back on (with a grappling) it'd make punishing snipers better

[hallow leaf]

Medium would be in a great state if the revolver got a buff and the fcar and aps got a nerf

[fleet brook]

So slept on I forgot medium had a shotgun to be fair

[hallow leaf]

Imo it's the best shotgun as well

[fleet brook]

Just give aps a max amount of projectiles it can block

[hallow leaf]

It doesn't even need that just make it to where once you break it it goes on cool down and can't be immediately placed again

[fleet brook]

It feels like playing against a very old jaeger ads if anyone here played old R6

You could also give it a small cd between projectile breaks so that way you could burn it then use your actual utility

[hallow leaf]

That too I just feel like putting it on cd when broken is the safest and easiest way to fix it, I have a feeling if they add an ammo count to it they will ruin it

Instead of an ammo count I would like an overheating feature

For example if it stops a certain amount of projectiles in a row it overheats and disables for a few seconds

[fleet brook]

That doesn't stop the issue of doubling up I recommend the small cd between blasting projectiles internally because that's how they fixed Jaeger (I know I keep comparing it) basically it allowed for the counterplay of throwing a burner projectile then your actual one

Ads burning is the seige term

[wise briar]

Why not? It adds a stun effect to whoever you tracked. People would be even more interested to use it

[supple oracle]

and make another infuriating stun gun?, No we do not need that, it already lasts for 15s the track effect and thats very good already

imagine a infinite range stun gun lmao, where the fuck you get these ideas?

not the worst i have heard, but still bad

[wise briar]

To your surprise there was actually quite a few number of people who agreed with me when i last posted the same thing. Literally not many people are using darts at all and it needs an extra feature to it. Maybe not stun. Maybe some kind of poison damage. But still needs something.

[supple oracle]

it does not...and i bet the people who agreed with you are the same people with lame and broken balance ideas like INFINITE RANGE Stun gun

speculate if your idea was added, WHY would anyone use stun gun when tracking dart exists?

stun gun would be a worse "tracking" dart lmao

[wise briar]

Dude chill. No need for all these aggressive hostility. Im just giving an idea. I literally just said "May not be stun" and you still keep on raging like a child. Im open for feedback if you're still gonna rage like a child then your words are trash to me

[supple oracle]

maybe think how ridiculous it is before posting that

I play sniper light and tracking dart + sonar are one of the few gadgets i can use at range to help my team know where the enemy is and how many there are

i had teammates use the tracking dart to its advantage

one heavy with MGL32 would always kill the tracked player since he could kill him without needing LoS

other was a light that would always lock on to any tracked player i hit and always win

and sometimes the tracked player just runs away waiting for the track effect to wear off, basically doing nothing
but honestly that does not count

[cinder hemlock]

Lol.... did someone seriously just suggest the sniper rifle ranged tracking dart that it's near impossible to miss with and lights somebody up like a Christmas tree through walls for like an hour or whatever should ALSO be a stun? Ffs.

[wise briar]

No. I disregarded the stun effect to poison damage instead. If you even bother reading the previous context.

[cinder hemlock]

... I mean that's just even worse.

[supple oracle]

15s poison effect lmao

[supple oracle]

nah, its slightly less worse and infuriating

[cinder hemlock]

I don't think the tracking dart needs much changing to be honest. It does what it intended to do, it's quite useful situationally. The problem is just that it's never going to be better than Teleport, Stun and Glitch and you're never really likely to have more than one Light in any serious, regular comp. I understand why they wanted to give all the recon equipment to Light. It's thematic and it gives them more team utility. It's just while you're limited to three gadgets and those other three are so good, Sonar Grenades and the tracking dart won't get picked a lot.

[wise briar]

Dude. Since the day The Finals launch. I have only received tracking from others less than 10 times since day 1. This is because there are so many other great equipments people rather use instead of darts. This is what im trying to say that it needs a little extra feature.

[molten garnet]

ive been tracked like 5 times

[cinder hemlock]

Honestly the best thing you could do for the tracking dart is just make it available to all 3 classes so there's more chance one gets used in a team. The actual object itself doesn't need any extra feature, especially not something as OP as you're suggesting

[supple oracle]

making it avaiable to all 3 would just not make sense...

[wise briar]

No. But, it shouldnt be removed from Mediums in the first place

[supple oracle]

i use tracking and sonar because sniper and grappling hook greatly benefits from this, since i'm constantely in a advantageous position to get a good look on the battlefield and shoot/track anyone

its all about choosing the tool for the right job

Tracking dart is fine and balanced for what it does, it just unfortunately is not fit for the majority of lights arsenals

[wise briar]

I dont use darts indoors. I use sonar indoors. Its more useful at an open area where you need to provide info for your whole team. However, i dont like how its removed from medium.

[molten garnet]

but what does that do fort teh team?

[supple oracle]

You know it highligts the tracked target for the team, right?

there you go

[molten garnet]

i feel like you could do more damage differently

[supple oracle]

what are you talking about?...

[fleet brook]

Completely unrelated

I don't like stun effects it feels like the lights stun gun is a free kill for the light

I generally don't like things that take away player agency or don't have counterplay

What is the counterplay for a stun light?

[supple oracle]

on top of being the most infuriating thing on the Receiving end even if others say its "Fine"

[hot marsh]

lol just stick with ur team

[fleet brook]

Like bruh I can't even do anything and then its "skill expressive"

[sharp bloom]

stick with ur team and its actually useless lol

[hot marsh]

its the only thing that a light can do when a heavy is charging towards them

[hot marsh]

exactly

[fleet brook]

Me when explaining anything in the game and when rotating towards objectives

[supple oracle]

also dont forget when your team also does not stick together or do objectives

[fleet brook]

Also It's not useless especially if you're not comming and even if the light does notice two people turn around they'll usually run

Stick with your team

When you just spawn in and are trying to regroup with said team

[wise briar]

Nobody likes getting stunned. And theres one effective way to counter it. Use them 12 gauges

[hot marsh]

the stun gun punishes players for separating from their team. light absolutely needs this gadget to remain viable in the meta against heavies and mediums with much more health

[fleet brook]

Stuns in any game feel like trash

[supple oracle]

yes, i wanted to play with the r.357 today, but i guess i can go fuck myself, just cant have any variety in my arsenal

[fleet brook]

You ....you can't be serious right? Like the shotgun exist if you want to fight mediums and heavies

[hot marsh]

blud the shotgun aint gonna do anything against an fcar or a heavy shotgun when they have 100 or 200 more health

[fleet brook]

Lights have tons of tools to fight mediums and heavies that don't feel terrible to play against

[supple oracle]

anyone who says light NEEDS Stun gun to be viable is inhaling so much copium lmao

[fleet brook]

Also the counterplay for anything in this game could be "stay with your team"

That's like saying

"Just shoot the aps turret "

Also it doesn't change the fact it still feels like cheeks to get hit with the stun gun

[supple oracle]

when said aps turret destroys projectiles through walls, "just shoot it lmao"

[hot marsh]

its actually crazy when people complain about the stun gun. if u dont want to get picked off use a good hipfire gun or stick to ur team. mediums and heavies have much more broken abilities to complain about

[fleet brook]

Also id trade a light for a heavy or medium any day in ranked if we're talking about life trading

[sharp bloom]

3/4 of the time i get stunned i either kill him hipfiring or my teammate kilsl him for me , complaining about stun gun is acc crazy its not even that good

[fleet brook]

Also it feels like cheeks no matter how balanced it is stuns always feel terrible in gun games in most shooters no matter how balanced stuns suck and will always suck

Most things in this game feel good and again as a light player

Kill trading especially if done smartly is really easy

I'd trade a light for a medium in most scenarios in ranked

[hot marsh]

what lmao... it is suppose to feel like cheeks because mediums or heavies who get stunned should be punished when alone. that is lights MAIN objective lmao

[supple oracle]

its actually crazy you openly admit you cant kill a unaware target in a 1v1 without stun gun lmao

[hot marsh]

light is not suppose kill trade. they are suppose to punish teams for bad positioning and get intel for the team

[fleet brook]

Nothing in your game should feel terrible to play against that's bad game balancing

You can punish mispositioning and unawareness without feeling terrible

[hot marsh]

thats contradictory to itself. u cant PUNISH someone without making them feel terrible lmao. and also its not terrible when u get stunned cause most of the time its not a guaranteed killed even when stunned

[fleet brook]

I'm just saying even if the light gets noticed you can at least secure a kill on the stunned target before you die

And if you can't punish without stun gun you suck

Shotgun + invis to punish heavies is extremely easy aim center mass hit two shots

[hot marsh]

lol thats such a based statement. "oh u suck because u cant out gun someone with 100 or 200 more hp". wtf

[fleet brook]

Shotgun exist

[hot marsh]

lh1 or double barrel

[fleet brook]

If you want to tell other people just play a gun with good hip fire I can tell you run light double barrel

[hot marsh]

ur right. for mediums and heavies as WELL

[fleet brook]

Are you saying you can't win a 1v1 with an unsuspecting target with lights shotgun?

At this point stun is just a crutch

[small flicker]

Yes

[hot marsh]

keep on inhaling that copium bud. no one uses light shotguns for a reason. stop complaining about stun guns as an excuse for ur crappy positioning and poor comunication with ur team

[fleet brook]

Also I will forever hold my sentiment taking away player agency in any shooter will always suck no matter how "balanced" it is

[small flicker]

Too slow and literally cant even jump up the smallest of ledges, also i dont really like any weapons except hammer and flamethrower. Gadgets are decent ig, just not my thing

[supple oracle]

and light has the highest DPS in his arsenal, what are you crying about HP difference?

[fleet brook]

1 I play light the stun gun being strong is in my favor

2 I dislike stuns in any game I play they're generally cheeks to play against

3 when I'm on heavy in usually near my team and even then I'm not losing fights to the light it's just annoying and feels terrible to get stunned

4 sorry I don't feel like comming and sweating every game

5 you openly admit you can't get kills on light without stun gun meaning I'm better at light then you because I can punish positioning without a free kill button

6 lights shotgun isnt cheeks you have to get close and think with it and shooter games players dislike thinking I should know I used it to climb ranked

[fleet brook]

The only light gun I dislike is the semi auto pistol and that's because the amount of clicking

[supple oracle]

fair, not a fan of the pistol too

[fleet brook]

Fair playing heavy felt very clunky for me in the beginning I just felt like a slow big target and less a power house play style isnt for everyone

Also the shotgun two taps any class in the game

[supple oracle]

also not a fan of the double barrel...as a shotgun, really wished light had a non-double barrel shotgun

[fleet brook]

It's the best weapon if you can sneak up on an opponent and even if you get spotted it's ttk allows you time to kill + get out before they notice you just reload alot

[supple oracle]

a judge could work for light

[fleet brook]

Maybe my favorite shotgun is definitely the heavies

Good range good damage reliable destruction

[supple oracle]

i cant get around heavies 4-shot tube switch thing...and lately feels like im shooting bb's

probably a skill issue on my part

[fleet brook]

Oh not the drum fed one that one felt clunky to me

But imma try and get used to it just to widen my arsenal

[fleet brook]

Also forgot to mention lights are the smallest class in the game meaning shotguns are less effective vs them people will miss more
Making they're effective health larger then they're displayed health

[supple oracle]

i do feel lights could use a tiny bit of a health up like 10hp just so some weapons need 1 extra bullet to kill them, though i dont know how many weapons will be affected by that and it probably will make some weapons not deserving feel even worse against lights, so i re-frain from seriously suggesting this

[icy sparrow]

Read my comment on rpg on feedback

[supple oracle]

dont care (i did read it), i want my 2 charges C4 back, i never cared about RPG in the first place till they brought the nerf hammer to C4

[icy sparrow]

Rpg need nerf

[supple oracle]

i dont care about rpg buffs or nerf, i use it mainly for destruction anyway since C4 sucks

embark took variety away with the C4 charge nerf i used mainly for arena destruction

now i use RPG, cause why the hell should i use C4?

45s cooldown down to 30s dosent cut the 1 less charge

im dying on this hill and i will never NOT be mad about this change

[icy sparrow]

U cancer so u dying,don’t blame other for ur death

[steady wave]

in my opininoNobody likes getting stunned. And theres one effective way to counter it. Use them 12 gauges

[supple oracle]

I can have a more coherent conversation with AI bots than with you...

[icy sparrow]

Lol troll comment

[icy sparrow]

Read my comment on rpg on feedback

[supple oracle]

How to be disliked by people 101

[icy sparrow]

Lol

[supple oracle]

my point has been made

[icy sparrow]

Hahahaha

[fleet brook]

How so?

[steady wave]

Read my comment on rpg on feedback

[supple oracle]

Read my comment on rpg on feedback

[icy sparrow]

No warning and all of a sudden most of health gone

[fleet brook]

Also if you're gonna nerf the RPGs damage give it a destruction buff

[fleet brook]

Also someone recommended the light get a health and Regen buff so that place...it's a lost cause

[icy sparrow]

Just regen buff then

[fleet brook]

Medium has hitscan turret because they are designed around "building "/ altering the arena and it wouldn't make sense for another class to have it especially as a specialization

[icy sparrow]

Lol

[icy sparrow]

Turret need fire rate nerf

[fleet brook]

Lights excel at slipping out of combat so essentially they'd become gnats slip in fight slip out slip in slip out

[fleet brook]

You play alot of light don't you?

[icy sparrow]

Yeah,medium is like call of duty boring and don’t like heavy

[fleet brook]

Personally I prefer to keep my rpg for destruction using it on a light I can two shit personally is a waste

[fleet brook]

Alot of the issues you bring up are exclusive to lights and the light buff set off my suspicion

But to use your RPG on a light (c4 is mid and requires you to get close) you're giving up a decent amount of your arena disruption for a long amount of time

Also heavies two shot lights using rpg on them is a massive waste unless it's a group of two enemies

Lights also aren't supposed to take on a confrontation with a heavy pretty much ever

[supple oracle]

not directly anyway, smart lights would only do so when they have the advantage

[icy sparrow]

I don’t but all of a sudden most of my health is missing

[fleet brook]

True mostly running up behind or sniping

[fleet brook]

Yeah sums up playing light

You have to be far more resourceful and thoughtful of your actions or be a rat and run invis+ stun

[icy sparrow]

Invis plus stun is hella annoying

I can be resourceful with health regen time buff

[supple oracle]

@sturdy helm curious on what you feel the pyro nade is currently lacking in

DoT damage?,AoE?

[fleet brook]

Personally size

It just doesn't cover enough space

[restive plover]

Do pyro mines have a shorter arming time than explosive mines?

[supple oracle]

give me 2 minutes

Nope, same arming time

[restive plover]

Huh.

[supple oracle]

i like pyro mines to not destroy the enviroment too much, plus a DoT field for area denial

[restive plover]

I was asking because yesterday I chucked a pair at a dude and his buddy behind a mesh shield and they seemed to go off almost immediately.

I guess one must have shot them.

[robust token]

glitch grenade

[sturdy helm]

i don’t know exactly what it needs but it just feels like a worse gas grenade as far as area denial, the only advantage it has is the instant damage but you can literally steal a cash out while on fire and shrug it off

[supple oracle]

Even the impact damage is only 15 and the rest are DoT

well, aside fire countering goo and gas, as a offensive tool it can feel lacking

dont know what could be done for it

[sturdy helm]

i mostly see it used as a counter yea, maybe a second charge and bigger impact damage to reward accuracy with it

since fire DoT is mostly not effective but they probably don’t wanna tune that up cuz of the flame thrower

[distant hawk]

Deagle , when?

[supple oracle]

for who

[distant hawk]

i would say heavy

[supple oracle]

Maybe something more exotic

[fleet brook]

Heavy is only class without a pistol option

[restive plover]

One of those single shot 50 bmg pistols.

[viscid depot]

has the m1887 been nerfed recently? it feels weaker than when i last used it

[supple oracle]

id rather have a 4-Bore at this point

[restive plover]

I don't think it's been touched at all.

[viscid depot]

istfg it has

[fleet brook]

Can't counter aps turret which is stupid

[viscid depot]

its doing waaay less damage than it used to, at least not with the same accuracy

[restive plover]

Hit registration got worse, so it might be that some pellets aren't connecting when they should.

[supple oracle]

@sand monolith unfortunately my brain is too smooth to understand your joke...

[viscid depot]

that sounds like a good reason

[sand monolith]

Use a loadout that actually compliments C4. It’s not a weak gadget at all. It does not need its power doubled

[supple oracle]

i never said double power?, i said 2 charges, are these words the same?...

[restive plover]

If you have two c4 you have double the power of one c4.

[fleet brook]

What's that?

RPG

C4
Random

[sand monolith]

Mines are very good with C4 because you can place a mine with the C4 for extra damage as well as having 1 more mine for defense somewhere else. You can also trigger any elemental mine from anywhere with C4. The real issue with C4 is that RPG and dome are too strong to give up so you can’t really run a good C4 build without throwing. Not because C4 is bad, but because RPG and Dome are too good.

[fleet brook]

I use c4 for destruction

[supple oracle]

bro wants me to use C4 as a budget mine

[fleet brook]

Who uses it for damage?? I thought c4 was a destruction tool

[supple oracle]

and i MADE IT CLEAR that i use C4 for arena destruction

why the fuck would i use C4 as a budget mine, when i can use the EXPLOSIVE mine already for that, or better yet!, both PYRO AND EXPLOSIVE

not to mention C4 deals 80% of its damage when prematurely exploding

[sand monolith]

If you are only using C4 for half of its capabilities then no shit it’s gonna be bad.

C4 is great for AOE damage

[supple oracle]

Dude just does not get it

[sand monolith]

You want C4 to be buffed because you aren’t using it properly

[supple oracle]

i am not using it for damage, i am using it for destruction