discord-feedback

[violet plinth]

would it be possible to add https://discord.gg/overseascasuals to #resources ? since people tend to come here with the reddit posting

[half vigil]

We're in the midst of a resources cleanup and overhaul! We're very aware that there's things that should no longer be there and a lot that should be. OC is definitely on the list to add!

[violet plinth]

ah, i see! i wasn't aware it was being rehauled, ty for the info o7

[zinc jay]

Can staff add a calendar event for the combat PLL? Should be <t:1715857200>

[graceful wren]

New colours are great

[zinc jay]

The main suggestion I would give irt to role colors is about the helpful role.

I think instead of it being a pale gold yellow it should be more of a light orange, closer to the mentor color, as helpfuls are (on paper) meant to be a step below them and be knowledgable users. This would help them stand out from the winner role as well as the others.

My suggestion instead of altering the DC role colors though would maybe be to utilize role icons instead, marking the NA/EU/JP/SEA players with something that indicates their respective regions. I don't particularly feel strongly about the suggested colors themselves, though.

[minor kelp]

Simp nepobaby

[graceful wren]

Cry harder bluenames

[minor kelp]

Make me pastel pink

That's my feedback

[median jolt]

Oh god not in the feedback channel you guys

[minor kelp]

Sorry mom2

[zinc jay]

(Also, might be good to include the hex codes of the suggested changes so if people are particular they can suggest different shades more easily)

[median jolt]

Ahem, anyway, being more serious,

this was a really poor mockup I created when we were debating the helpful person role color

[zinc jay]

gimme a second to play around with these, i have a vision for what to do with helpful.

[charred arrow]

I'm fine with current color but if you want to change it my opinion would be the first. IMO second is too close to mentor orange.

[zinc jay]

I'd say something maybe like #ffa07a or #ffc09f, to keep it vaguely like mentor but not that close.

[hallow yacht]

The new colors do help identifying better; too many colors caused me to go "Wait...what data center is this person from?"

[versed mauve]

i think the pale yellow is fine imo because the lighter and less saturated color stands out from the mentor and event winner color which are both saturated. idk if i would like 3 saturated yellow colors

[zinc jay]

It might also be beneficial if it remains the same to actually make the helpfuls be one of those roles listed separate from other users, as that could reduce confusion even more.

[half vigil]

good thing your opinion doesn't matter
jk its good to know what current helpfuls feel about the suggested changes

[median jolt]

I've added the two color suggestions to my cheap and dirty mockup

[half vigil]

A lot of the current "pain points" for helpful is mostly the closeness to the primal colour that was apparently causing a small amount of confusion to people. clarity isn't always a bad thing

[zinc jay]

which I get, and maybe displaying them separately could alleviate. But again the two shades I suggested may be more appropriate.

[versed mauve]

oh i do like that more pinkish one on the top right i think that would be easy to distinguish at a glance

[zinc jay]

Those are my suggestions for helpful but to reiterate I do think it would be constructive too use the dc emotes we have here as role icons on each of the respective dc roles as well. , , etc

[median mantle]

Would it make sense to copy the TL;DR of the alt leveling guide to the faq bot response? I see most people opting to quickly type out a TL;DR themselves instead of using the command (maybe cut out the PotD bits so it's a little shorter)

[celest idol]

My issue with that is that the tldr is often a bit incomplete. For example people will say "spam dungeons" without clarifying what type, for how long, etc.

Even though I get the urge, some people are just very resistant to having to open a guide and... sorry XIV players... read

But maybe a short text in the faq would even fix that. I dunno. I'll mull it over

[zinc jay]

I dont think a tldr makes sense for that command, mostly because all of that info is significant.

[median mantle]

yeah that's why having it in the command would help incentivize people to use it more I guess
especially since reddit is very push on mobile to get you to download their damn app so maybe people don't want to click a reddit link

[granite aurora]

I'll be honest, I don't see a difference between 'helpful person' and 'mentor', just seems like more role bloat

[autumn fox]

^

[half vigil]

There is absolutely a difference. Mentors are able to contribute to the resources and FAQs that are created and shared through KupoBot on top of providing help and answers in the relevant channels here, whereas helpful people are people who are generally recognized as having provided good advice and help. Mentors do require an application and have a process to undergo to become one here, whereas any person can be nominated or recognized by staff as a helpful person.

[minor kelp]

The announcement here #announcements message is very clear that the helpful role isn't staff and carries no authority other than they're recognised as a reliable source of information. It's not a step below mentors, it's just meant to be a nice thing.

[zinc jay]

Helpful serves as a good intermediary for cutting down on misinformation in channels where it especially matters, like #questions-and-help or #beginner-lounge.

[hoary garden]

It also serves a similar function, as far as I can tell, as the slow mode in Q&H does. In this case it provides a visual focal point for people asking questions because the people who have this role tend to give quality, comprehensive information, instead of
bits
of incomplete
info
every
six
seconds

[vestal osprey]

could i suggest slight offsets for each of the new colors? if not thats fine

[median jolt]

Yeah, this is a trial of the new colors to see if they work, if people have any problems with visibility or legibility, that kind of feedback is helpful

putting colors into a google docs spreadsheet and seeing how they look is a lot different from seeing them in an active chatroom

[zinc jay]

I do think the color you picked for helpful does look fine, but I'd still be concerned about visibility vs the contest winners. (Note I have one of the nitro themes which does make the role colors stand out more, versus actual normal discord. Go check this in rants for reference.)

[zinc jay]

I also do still think it would be beneficial to do this. Could y'all maybe trial it?

[granite aurora]

these DC role colors make the chat look very.. boring and miserable kinda? Very weird to describe ngl

[silk raptor]

[hallow yacht]

I like em cuz its more concise regarding regions

[versed mauve]

I think keeping the helpful role more pale would be better because more saturation makes them too close to the winner role even if you change the hue

[silk raptor]

I think this should be america's colors

BajaBlast2024

[young hearth]

i fully support aeris' role color suggestions ^

[hallow yacht]

Jokes aside that's kupo bot dev team color

[silk raptor]

its greener

[median jolt]

no

[untold sequoia]

Unfortunately its very hard to see with light mode

[versed mauve]

i dont need more retina burning i already see channy's name enough

[plush patio]

I like the simplified colors. With DC travel, the difference between DCs within the same region are minimal anyways

[prisma monolith]

Hi. The current color role for the North American DC players is a very non-pleasant blue grayish color. Can we have it changed to a more blueish color?

[versed mauve]

wdym non pleasant

[prisma monolith]

I wanted to put it on a nice way

[gray nexus]

It was more blueish before however we worried that people may accidentally confuse it with the mod color

Therefore it got adjusted

[keen ermine]

It's a shade of blue that is somewhere in between "sea" and "shining sea"

[meager sluice]

what in the world is "shining sea"

[hoary garden]

It's a shade of blue I often saw in the Navy for paint for the bilge, or when Termaline was exposed to seawater for like ten years. It's not a bad choice but I understand Violet, it does seem a tad bit brackish.

@meager sluice it's a joke about the united states, don't worry about it

[meager sluice]

ok understandable have a nice day

[silk raptor]

F-22 raptor gray

[maiden flint]

It’s a light blue

[hallow mist]

This looks cool.

Current NA color is pure misery. Also way too close to Undeicded IMO.

Jeans up there has Undecided and I have the NA color. Not exactly easy to tell if it's next to other role colors intead of each other.

[hallow mist]

Use a darker shade of that perhaps? Second row for example is #28C18C

Oh whoops forgot to turn off ping

[azure gate]

I thought Jeans was NA so I think you're right

[median jolt]

Since the original NA color was deemed "depressing", I shifted it teal to attempt to make it brighter, but accidently created "pure misery". So let's see how it looks shifted towards ultramarine

[vestal osprey]

wasnt this one of the jp colors

[hallow mist]

Well the depressing NA color was very close to old EU (Light) too

[median jolt]

None of the colors are exactily the same

when I was picking colors I was trying very hard to not favor any old roles, but with limited color selection and many colors looking identical if they're not put next to each other, it can't be helped

[hallow mist]

I'm aware, and I don't think matter much if the new colors are close to some of the discontinued ones. We'll all adjust eventually

[unique ermine]

In the future: https://webaim.org/resources/contrastchecker/ may help choose colors. Perhaps it was used! If so, awesome job! I think it's cool to see readability was part of the reason for some color choices.

[hoary garden]

I just want to say that it's nice that one of the most difficult decisions the server is facing is member role color.

Silly but also very wholesome.

[thorny lantern]

[gray nexus]

[onyx shale]

Wasn't this the crystal colour? I miss aether green

[median jolt]

here are the current colors

(oh I was wrong it by coincidence it is actually the same as mana's old color)

[vestal osprey]

thats what im sayin!!!!

[median jolt]

I'm actually surprised that happened because I adjusted the color manually

at least I thought I did...

[gray nexus]

It happens

[median jolt]

(ssh nobody notice that I changed it again)

[silk raptor]

BAJA BLAST 2025

[gray nexus]

https://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/news/detail/c5069c5b9c8968da0e1251846a5a3fec140b5350

It’s a DDoS please be patient and wait

[round gull]

we arent official sqex server either, talking here wont help anyway

[gray nexus]

^

Not the right channel for that

[median mantle]

Would it make sense to disallow tomestone cards in #beginner-lounge ? Without having played Endwalker, the first two extremes seem a bit spoilery unless I'm misinterpreting the names

[untold sequoia]

They should already be disallowed by virtue of !me not working there

[median mantle]

People post them manually instead then #beginner-lounge message

[untold sequoia]

I cleaned up the channel and threw up a pin, that should (hopefully) stop it

[median mantle]

Cheers, can point people to the pin if they still share it which should help

[celest idol]

You can also ping mods if it really goes overboard. Circumventing the filter like that is obviously no bueno

[edgy robin]

make oce BROWN for coconut

[azure gate]

is there coconut?

[untold sequoia]

I would just like everyone who suggests a colour to please take the time to not only get us a hex code, but also test the colour on both light and dark mode

[autumn fox]

One ...err small thing to correct

Holy sheltron for paladin has changed (pvp version). Kupo still showing the pre 6.58 sheltron.

Specifically

[autumn fox]

Same for confiteor (8000 to 12000)
And all 3 blade action potencies that follow

[half vigil]

this stuff isn't manually put into kupobot. its taken from the api repository, so if thats not updated its not kupo's fault.

[timid pilot]

I don’t think we manage the API, also

[autumn fox]

I agree
Its the source code the API pulls from that would be looked into. Just wanted to point it since its not correct information.

[whole grove]

Dunno if this is where I should ask this, but in #1039984999157485618, how often is it acceptable to post ads for your FC? Like once a month? Once every three months?

[celest idol]

We don't have any hard rules currently as the channel works reasonably well without one. So unless it becomes an issue we recommend just going by common sense. Don't repost your listing if it's still in the upper part of the list and so on

If it ever becomes a listing war we might reconsider our stance.

[analog cove]

can a mod dm me? i have a question

[azure gate]

Use the modmail, easier than asking mods to DM you

[analog cove]

how do i do that

[charred arrow]

There's a readme on how to do it in #discord-modmail

[minor kelp]

You missed a ! at the start

[tacit dawn]

#resources message
There is a discord link to Azure Lore here that doesn't do anything

[autumn parrot]

We're in the process of cleaning up resources at the moment

[pearl halo]

Hi

Does anybody go to comiccon

[ivory moat]

This is not the channel for chatter
#general-discussion or #beginner-lounge

[hoary garden]

Respectfully request warmacro be added as an alternate to faq warmacros

I know there's more than one macro there but it does seem a tad silly lol

[minor kelp]

done

[wheat shuttle]

I've got a short guide for Mahjong basics, would it be possible to request having it added as an !faq ?

[half vigil]

yeah for sure send it over to us!

[celest idol]

It exists now as !faq mahjongbasics
We credited you with your full discord username for now. If you want to be credited in another way just tell us how and it'll be taken care of

[amber skiff]

The bot announced the daily reset a few hours too early in #general-discussion at around 7am est, it doesnt normally do that right?

[stone aurora]

I figured I'd miss something, this was due to kupo having an incorrect timer for the updated server's timezone, I've wiped the caches in question and he shouldn't do that any more.

[agile raft]

can we get a pvp mode like cyrodiil from Elderscrolls online/WvW from Guildwars 2, Noninstanced pvp is so fun especially for large pvp guilds to just roam around and siege castles/territories. Ik most think frontline is what those are but frontline is instanced domination fastpaced pvp. Cyrodiil/WvW is slow paced largescale pvp with resource nodes, catapults, meta zerging and much larger player numbers in the hundreds. Would be so much fun to log on and have no pvp queue times. Could even add things into it to incentivize pvp more like gatherer related things with a larger multiplier without loot drop. add clan leaderboards for kills/territories owned, even make it to where your clan gets X amount of gil every hour per territory owned(or something that would make territory worth owning)

[zinc jay]

this is not an official server. no squenix staff are here. go to the forums please.

[deft sorrel]

Preemptively getting my popcorn ready for the inevitable fools who come in here complaining about the Pride icon and collecting their ban

[graceful wren]

Excuse me Yen this channel is for discord feedback. Idle chatter should go in #general-discussion

[hollow owl]

love the new icon especially with the pictomanacer added in. happy pride month!

[hallow yacht]

Hello, I am submitting this feedback because for some reason it feels wrong to talk about FFXIV in this FFXIV-themed subreddit... we have a conversation about FFXIV and people start trying to butt in to steer it away into another topic that isn't FFXIV; and then a mod tell us to move on despite the conversation not being bad or inappropiate(other than the people butting in and insulting us for talking about ffxiv)

[cosmic stirrup]

I really like the new icon for pride month this year, did the artist take inspiration from Caius Ballad for the hair?:

[umbral fog]

no, kupo is in the pictomancer AF set https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/3/3d/Pictomancer_artwork_from_FFXIV.png

[cosmic stirrup]

Oh, so Pictomancer AF and Caius Ballad having similar hairstyles is just a fun little coincidence

[cosmic coyote]

Could we add "Behemoth: Large number of Brazilian players" to !faq worldpick?

[untold sequoia]

!faq worldpick

[ancient gale]

Which World Should I Pick?

You can play on any world on any datacenter within FFXIV. Aside from the languages spoken, the physical location of the regional data centers, and the status of each world, there are no major differences. This also means population on a given server is quite meaningless. Additionally, with the added functionality of Datacenter Travel within a region, you are welcome to make a character on one world and then travel to another datacenter as you please.

The majority of content is cross-world, with the exception of Free Companies, Linkshells, and restrictions when visiting other worlds.

If you don't mind where you play, choose a world that is Preferred or New for character creation bonuses. Check world status by using !status <world name> or via the Lodestone. For information about the status types, use !faq worldtype in #kupo-bot-spam.

Notable worlds:

• Balmung & Mateus (Role-playing)
• Tonberry & Kujata (Large amount of Southeast Asian and Oceanic players)
• Moogle (Large amount of French players)
• Shiva (Large amount of German players)
• Behemoth (Large number of Brazilian players)
  ANY CENSUSES OR WORLD STEREOTYPES BEYOND THIS IS INACCURATE BIAS AND SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY

[neat acorn]

In this post: #lodestone-news-na message about phishing links that was posted in the lodestone-news channels, it seems that the link under Example 1 is active. Not sure if that's what is intended, and I would worry about others clicking on it. Would there be a way to break that link so others don't use it?

[dense geyser]

The link doesn't go anywhere, fortunately

[neat acorn]

Good, good. Thank you for checking on that.

[turbid kayak]

it's also not a valid dns name (that is buyable) either

[granite aurora]

Hmm, random thought but perhaps adding a disclaimer that Balmung and Mateus are currently (and often in general) congested worlds would be helpful?

[half vigil]

Not the purpose of this FAQ so it will not be included.

[granite aurora]

Fair fair, it does kinda give the message of "if you want to roleplay, make your char on these worlds" just for the worlds to be congested
but your call ultimately, just wanted to justify why I made the suggestion

[plush patio]

The FAQ is already quite long but perhaps a short line about DC travel being an option in case of congestion might help new players picking worlds

[hallow yacht]

For any extra detail we can always just say it ourselves, we can type

[hoary garden]

Yep, faqs should be as short as their subject matter allows for. They're not excuses to avoid answering questions by typing !faq funnyletters, so it's fine if a faq isn't comprehensive.

[charred arrow]

Minor thing that doesn't really matter, weren't the kupo bot rule reminders at X:00 or around there. They've been drifting to other times lately right now X:34.

It's still every hour and like, the exact time isn't important but still.

[stone aurora]

Kupo is configured to check every hour after he's rebooted, he doesn't auctually check the time offset exactly for things like that. He's rebooted less often now (Previously, he had a 1 AM auto-reboot), so it's more when Eanae or I are in there working on him.

[rose dust]

Would it be possible to rework how messages are displayed in #dev-tracker? On PC you can open the source post by clicking the header at the top of the embed, but these are untappable on mobile (or at least on iOS) which makes the channel essentially unusable if you primarily use this server on mobile.

[hallow yacht]

I can on Android; I'm afraid the issue lies in iOS then

[rose dust]

Unfortunate. I do think it'd still be beneficial to add a hyperlink at the end that says something like "View post" since it's also not immediately obvious that the "header" (in quotes because it's not the actual header element) is interactable. Alternatively it could be done like this (example from the Path of Exile discord server) where the text at the top is the poster (and could contain the source for this usecase?) with an actual header with the thread name below, which does properly indicate that it is interactable

This would also solve the dev posts not indicating what they're actually in context to, because you don't even get that information at all unless you view the source post yourself

[stone aurora]

A few updates have been made to this in Kupo, we won't see them until we see a new dev comment on the subreddit, which seems to be fairly rare, but we'll keep an eye out for it in general.

[jade eagle]

Hello got a quick question about KupoBot, is it still possible to have it auto post messages in my own discord for like news and for example the fashion report in different channels?

[meager sluice]

you can do it for news. dunno about the content feed though

[jade eagle]

Aye did it for the news, but had to join the fashion report discord for that to work aswell, would have been good if it just came from 1 bot tho hehe

[stone aurora]

Kupo doesn't auto-post the FR anywhere, he merely updates the !fr command when it comes up on reddit. Also, as of now, he doesn't offer the ability to post news directly to any other server as discord would get very mad with the number of servers he'd be posting to, which is why we use the announce system here.

[jade eagle]

Ahhh gotcha gotcha! So following is the only "proper" way then, cool! Thank you!

[wheat shuttle]

Will we have !trivia here during this 48hr maintenance for DT?

[azure gate]

If we do might I have a suggestion for like some decent cooldown, because to me it seems there are like 3 people who instantly type in all answers before I can even understand the question

[icy sentinel]

just use the iron ore option select

[modern jacinth]

Yeah we can throw a few trivia sessions up

[light briar]

hey if I receive a message from someone via this server (mutual server) that I believe might be a phishing scam, obviously I'll report it with Discord's report function, but should I also report it to the mod team to decrease the chance other people in the server get messaged?

[gray nexus]

Yeah ideally open a #discord-modmail

[zinc jay]

Posting this here irt to the jobunlock faq. https://fixvx.com/FF14game8/status/1805524274457067543

[vestal osprey]

pictomancer near conjurers guild
viper near main aetheryte

[eternal flint]

I wonder if it's possible to add this event countdown on this server So every time someone ask WHEN IS MAINT?? u can just tell them to look top left instead of doing the command in #kupo-bot-spam It's also very convenient for people to see what event is currently going on in game

[ornate pelican]

We can but trivia is kind of out dated at this point

@median jolt was working on updating it but I don’t think it was ever finished

[half vigil]

We were mostly waiting for the whole system to be reworked a bit, because there were some things that were discussed with impala that we were unsure of implementation and stuff. Plus trivia is pretty low on the list for priority I think. We haven't added new questions as a result

[versed mauve]

redid the image for the new faq

[timid pilot]

We have an image in preparation once the official launch date arrives, but thank you very much 💚

[gray nexus]

thank you for the effort either way Cerb much appreciated

[versed mauve]

I can't believe this

[azure gate]

Although, I'd still suggest adding gender as well because iirc you can't play male viera if you own only shadowbringers

[median mantle]

(and female hrothgar to Dawntrail)

[autumn parrot]

They are

All viera just need shb

[azure gate]

really? damn that's nice

[autumn parrot]

I expect female hrothgar will be the same deal they're just releasing with DT

[umbral fog]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/853841905762566145/1246541157882663012/image.png?ex=667d102b&is=667bbeab&hm=62767c6b6dcc5519707f3a0f840d332871a186e88577c23781d2856797db5316&
female hrothgar are the same

[minor kelp]

where comic sans

[versed mauve]

ur right if only i made it comic sans

[hollow owl]

since the whole dr. disrespect allegations came out to be true, should discussion of him be avoided at all costs?

[minor kelp]

yes

covered by the controversial figures rule

[ornate pelican]

We’ll probably add his name to the soft hard filter at some point.

[rich plinth]

.!faq buy needs to be updated now

[charred arrow]

Looks like "!dyeicons" gonna need to change with double dye interface now too.

[half vigil]

Good call. When lodestone has updated images or if someone can additionally provide those we can update it!

[hallow yacht]

Hello, how long will slow mode in #general-discussion stay for?

[untold sequoia]

We'll play it by ear based on how active the channel is

[torpid flint]

I'd love to see the ability to join voice chats added here.

[median mantle]

They're hard to moderate especially in such a large Discord which is why there are none

[zinc jay]

Because there's no way to effectively moderate vc this server will not have vcs ever.

[hallow yacht]

There were VCs previously... they were not good, people would join in and say stupid shit then quickly leave and there was no proof other than word of mouth

[hoary garden]

Btw, can we give Wynne a kudos for patiently spending most of the day helping people figure out how to register product keys

[timid pilot]

help why is the ps5 player who doesn’t deal with codes the only one who can do it

[celest idol]

Wynne is definitely the MVP among the new player mentors here, pretty sure most of the staff would agree with me there

[waxen root]

I am dealing with assorted issues IRL, thank you Wynne 🙏

[solid latch]

same qq

[gray nexus]

As we already explained this is not happening.

[median mantle]

Would be nice to have a "freefantasia" faq that mentions the free one from base ARR and the quest we got with DT

[timid pilot]

We can just use the quest command for that and explain what the quest gives.

[shadow girder]

any chance we can get a new editions image for dawntrail?

[gray nexus]

We working on it

[median mantle]

@shadow girder cerb made one here btw

[shadow girder]

awesome!

[pearl halo]

Why is the #952271392424992838 channel an NSFW channel?

[round gull]

so sprouts dont accidentally waltz into it and get story spoiled

[pearl halo]

That's fair, but it also means a lot of people, myself included, can't access it at all lol

[gray nexus]

There’s no spoiler tag for channels as a whole this is the only option

[pearl halo]

Fair enough

[waxen root]

I believe there should be a spoiler channel feature suggestion somewhere on the discord feedback site, so do go give that an upvote when you can!

[junior bridge]

God discord sucks so much

[vague tinsel]

Is this where I can receive help regarding KupoBot?

[median mantle]

No, this is for feedback for this discord
You probably want https://discord.com/invite/Qugp6kGp

[vague tinsel]

Gotcha! Thank you very much.

[autumn fjord]

hi! would it be possible to differentiate the #1134533110197932195 and #1255897019856453756 channels a bit more? the former is under the lore discussion section and i’d love to talk about the story more in there, but it’s being treated as a general patch discussion channel where people discuss gameplay/jobs/levelling etc. & it’s been drowning out a lot of the story talk.

“dawntrail discussion” -> “dawntrail story spoilers”?

[celest idol]

Yeah that is on us to some degree. We were way too late on setting up #1255897019856453756 so people were already gathering over in #1134533110197932195 and just kinda stuck there. It's hard to fix it now, but we did pin a reminder and will try to keep an eye on it some more. Thanks for letting us know in any case

[round gull]

possible !faq for people asking about unable to access dawntrail as their preorder ran out?

[untold sequoia]

That sounds like an issue that won't be relevant in a week

[gritty anchor]

hello guys is this where we would give feedback on job actions and such?

I'm wondering why RPR's arcane circle isn't being replaced by plentiful harvest such as no mercy from GNB, it would really help with the button bloat. I just don't know how to get visibility on this

[untold sequoia]

This server is unofficial, if you want to give feedback on the game, please use the official forum

[gritty anchor]

alright, do you have a link? 🙂

[versed mauve]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forums/658-DPS-Roles

[gritty anchor]

ty

[eager stone]

hello! i wanted to ask, would it be possible to create another thread for people to discuss dawntrail without spoiler tag aka something like post ending thread for dawntrail? if its not possible bc server bloat, may i know when discussion of dawntrail without spoiler tag is allowed? thank you!

[autumn fox]

Also regarding doubts specific to Dawntrail, like maps/bosses/quests as both channels are also discussing lore meanin we have no clear distinction on them.

[timid pilot]

#1161031547634327572 is the no-holds-barred story/spoilers discussion channel

[eager stone]

huh so just to make sure, people are allowed untagged dawntrail spoilers there at this moment then?

[umbral fog]

no, right now dawntrail related spoilers need to be tagged until the 16th

[timid pilot]

Oh then I guess some people aren’t following the rules

[glad zephyr]

Hi, i would like to suggest a Channel for Typos in-game. I noticed a few Typos already while playing the german client and i actually joined the Discord to report a Typo :D. I think a Channel to report those would improve that. I got the Idea from other Game-Discordservers

[merry ore]

this is not an official server for the game, but rather the reddit one, though I'd assume there's a thread on the forums

[glad zephyr]

Oh ok, thx for telling me 🙂

[acoustic fulcrum]

Guys, I have purchased the game up to Endwalker on Steam, but I'm going to start playing on the PS5... do I only need to buy the game on the console, can I buy it along with all the expansions again for the console?

[oak pawn]

yes you have to rebuy it. but also #questions-and-help is the right channel for this

[autumn fox]

Will there be a separate channel to discuss DT related PvE content? Since with the growing amount of content that isnt high end
There really isnt a place to express these.

(Patch 7.0 discussion also is more lore spoken so it really feels like 1 concept copied in 2 channels)

[zinc jay]

...? #endgame-lounge exists.

[untold sequoia]

You'll be able to discuss DT content in #general-discussion after 7.01 releases

[ornate pelican]

Major content will get a thread in #1012400549007732786 otherwise #endgame-lounge or general fits most things.

[grizzled trench]

"Sharing datamined music will result in an immediate ban."
Why specifically the music? Or is it more like sharing copyrighted material?

[turbid kayak]

a request specifically from soken,

they rather want to experience the music trough the game, rather than purely mined mp3 files for very new content. (i guess)

[grizzled trench]

who is soken?

[versed mauve]

the composer of said music

[half vigil]

the composer and lead sound director for CBU3, the department of square enix that produces the game this discord server is about, FFXIV, Masayoshi Soken

[fiery jackal]

It’s also important to note all major music is already published in its highest quality on most platforms, the official audio is also on YouTube where you don’t have any compression (under Soken’s Topic channel)

[civic pier]

Kupobot seems to be down right now

[pearl halo]

Same here

[distant warren]

Its currently down while they work with discord to solve why they are seeing so many disconnects. Impala, one of the Kupobot devs, posted this in the support channel in the Kupobot discord a bit ago.

[pearl halo]

Does anyone have the link to the kupo bot discord server? I can’t find it anywhere

[distant warren]

Should be this I believe - https://discord.gg/4dpPFcWURA

[vocal swan]

Has kupo bot been updated for DT glam? I've been getting these errors

[autumn parrot]

kupo pulls from gamerescape which hasn't been updated in quite some time

[vocal swan]

oh

thanks tess

[charred arrow]

Still got lots of stuff from post-EW that never got puctures. DT is even less likely to have any.

[stone aurora]

It's on a general "Stuff Codingway is working on" list, but the current capture methods aren't great. Based on the discussions we've had w/ GE from the kupo-dev side, it's something they need contributions to, but the bulk upload is just slow and tedious at the moment.

[vocal swan]

Good to know ty

[timid pilot]

Yeah it’s a manual system and not something that’s just done when stuff gets added

[vocal swan]

Not to sound ungrateful, but how about connecting kupo bot to eorzea collection for the !iglam command? Unless there is some kind of partnership with gamerscape that I don't know about

[untold sequoia]

Does Eorzea Collection even allow that or offer a way to facilitate that?

[vocal swan]

wait nevermind a partnership was already mentioned. Sorry I didn't mean to sound like an asshole

[stone aurora]

^ We have permissions in place to allow the ability to bulk-request items, and it's perfectly fine. 🙂 I had the same thought a few months ago. xD The other side is that EC doesn't really do per-item images as much, and is more about "Here's my full glam"

[vocal swan]

Makes sense. Ty for the answer

[charred arrow]

I mean they do have individual pics for each armor piece on the gearset pages. However only for male and female hyur. Also no weapons or accessories.

[untold sequoia]

You are aware of what channel you posted this in, right?

[barren tree]

Yeah, I needed Djuras name so I could advise my account was hacked.

Discord does not like it when I attempted to bring up a profile while it's in a message before being sent.

My apologies.

For feedback though:

I think it's wise to include a "Mentor in Training" role.

[untold sequoia]

Mentors don't get trained

If they needed to be trained then they wouldn't be mentors

[barren tree]

What for going through the related quest line?

[untold sequoia]

The mentor role has nothing to do with in game mentors

[zinc jay]

this is not an official discord server, none of the staff here are actually squenix staff.

[hoary garden]

Hey, quick question, since I am not certain where to go for the answer to a related question: when Kupo pulls the graphic for the "!me" command (currently still the old version), where is it pulling that graphic from?

I ask because I am quite curious to find out why the Bard/Black Mage/Summoner job icons are for some reason their class icons instead.

[celest idol]

From what I can gather those cards are created by a custom API. You can take a peek here if you want https://github.com/Eanae/XIV-Character-Cards

What you're describing might be a bug, but given that kupo will transition to the new format soon-ish... prolly not worth fixing

[hoary garden]

Gotcha o7

[median mantle]

Would it be possible to get a faq command similar to this #beginner-lounge message ?
I've seen plenty of people take the role list you get when queueing for a duty as indication that "nobody wants to do this", unaware that it doesn't show people from the roulettes so explaining how roulettes work would be quite useful I think

[gray nexus]

I think that’s something people can explain when it gets brought up faqs aren’t supposed to replace answers but more so are just meant to help and are also there for primary frequently asked questions or stuff that actually needs a faq for it this is a question you can definitely explain way shorter than that too

But alas that’s my take on it also as a new player mentor but I’ll forward it either way

[eager drift]

What happened to Kupo bot and update notifications? They all used to have lodestone links but since today none of them do?

[vestal osprey]

they still have links, it just doesnt look like there IS a link
(try clicking "News Update!")

[untold sequoia]

If I had to guess, its because of Lodestone maint, but you can click on News update and it'll take you to the post

[eager drift]

It doesn’t take me anywhere and I have the latest discord app. I tapped pretty much over all the message including the header (news update) or where the word “link” is - nothing

[untold sequoia]

Ah, might be a mobile quirk

Huh, works for me

You want to click this

[eager drift]

Yeah, it doesn’t work on latest ios version on my tablet and on my phone as well, which has older version. But Discord can break things like that where only a handful of users have the issue, it happened in the past too

[vestal osprey]

Patch Notes
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/3a247a30e096e56b701157cd9fb903299a244c2f
"Regarding Changes in Congested/Preferred Worlds"
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/news/detail/b5601fad6c219163936543687b813c6751100428

[median mantle]

I think it's a known issue with the iOS version, it works fine on android

[timid pilot]

It’s also a weird issue and doesn’t happen with all lodestone posts, as seen in my image

[eager drift]

It is back to normal it seems

[hollow owl]

is there an index of kupobot commands?

[median mantle]

It has a !help command

[minor kelp]

https://kupobot.com/faq/

[merry ore]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/300676822213984257/1269043461525602344/profile.png?ex=66aea052&is=66ad4ed2&hm=31bacdc33df9ee797b347edfd4c61bfd5569f3a1e719b99730019084b49a8202&

Kupo pulled with smn/brd/blm having their class icons

[hoary garden]

Yes, I ... brought this up already.

[gray nexus]

.

[zinc jay]

Can the word "gypsy" get added to the soft or hard filter? it's considered a slur against the roma people.

[minor kelp]

Have raised it in staff channels for discussion

Added to the filter so we can check for context, thanks for the suggestion

[versed mauve]

can we also consider adding "moonrunes" to the soft or hard filter because it's been used on the internet in a racist way for so long and implies that East Asian languages are foreign and alien

[simple vine]

Thanks for bringing it up: it's a term that when it is used is often also used by east asians as descriptions as the languages are indeed complicated and intimidating to learn. Rest assured that if it the usage is found to be derogatory it'll be dealt with promptly.

[azure gate]

It's also context sensitive, because some games do use moon runes as an actual thing. Thinking of Bloodborne here, although I don't think Bloodborne content discussions will not be relevant for a good while

[turbid kayak]

could you also consider the written ffxiv eorzean language as moonrunes?

[merry ore]

no, its just the english alphabet in a weird font, but its legible

[half vigil]

you could consider it that, especially if your script recognition isn't particular clear for it. legibility isn't important in this case, as kanji characters are plenty legible. Complexity does not necessarily correlate to legibility.

[merry ore]

fair enough

[autumn fjord]

small nitpick, but i think the links labelled in #resources should be "NA" instead of "US", as that aligns with the in-game naming of "north american data centers", and would also not exclude other countries as being part of NA

[ornate pelican]

Ok?

[round gull]

#discord-modmail is what youd be using instead of pinging

[half vigil]

You need to ensure that you have DMs enabled with KupoBot in order to receive responses and reply to the modmail's you create.

[modest ruin]

Modmail shows to all mods iirc they wanted it only by an admin so don't think modmail would work in this case

[azure gate]

Yes but wouldn't usually the case be contact mods and if it's that severe it gets pushed up higher?

[modest ruin]

What if the issue is with a mod personally, would you want person that it's about to see it?

[minor kelp]

The mod team do escalate to admins if a complaint is made via modmail but it's also fine to contact admins directly

[gray nexus]

Anyway please don’t further clutter this channel with this you have reached out to people and good is

[ancient gale]

Ban Issued for drekmoon

@ebon condor has been banned by eanae for the following reason:

Spamming admin and moderator DMs

Banned from Final Fantasy XIV

[tame prism]

how often can we post in https://discord.com/channels/100463940835762176/1039986530783072336

[celest idol]

We don't have any hard rules on that, just don't be spammy basically. Personally I think once every 24h is more than enough to ensure it doesn't get drowned out. But if it ever devolves into a spam arms race we may enforce some stricter rules on the section

[silent beacon]

hi, is this where you can query issues with kupo bot?

[distant warren]

You might get quicker support from the Kupobot server https://discord.gg/4dpPFcWURA

I saw a dev respond there recently.

[quartz plaza]

Hiya! I was wondering if it was possible to have my server added to your resources channel?

[charred arrow]

What is your server?

[half vigil]

Please submit a modmail such that the moderation team can review it #discord-modmail

[polar aurora]

Can we get a Xbox tag added to the Tech Support channel?

[quartz plaza]

Awesome thank you, sorry I got busy forgot to check here

[onyx shale]

Why is the elemental DC raid discord linked under OCE resources

[zinc jay]

Speaking of #resources, noticed the master submarine thread isnt on there. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/357591

[thorny lantern]

What does this offer that the submarine builders discord does not? I just wanna make sure what we add to resources have something to add cause I do not want to overbloat resources again like last time. (Genuine question)

[timid pilot]

IMO, it does a good visual job of showing the loot tables from each sector. But besides that, I do think the discord is better in most aspects.

[zinc jay]

Many people do not, in fact, like joining a large number of discords for niche resources/information, and by including the forum that provides an alternative source for the same information.

[thorny lantern]

added

[median mantle]

Did you want https://discord.com/invite/eAPYSatDMu ?

[sour dome]

i've been noticing that quite a lot of the posts in #1116899335628668979 lately have been folks looking for friends, rather than queries about the game. i totally understand that adding & moderating a new channel is a lot of work, but it might be something helpful to consider, so that the friendship-posts are all consolidated in one easy-to-find, purpose-built place?

[celest idol]

We have discussed an lfg type channel/forum several times now, but what's holding us back is that we doubt people would actually use it instead of the first few channels that pop up in our (way too long) channel list. But thanks for the feedback, maybe we should reconsider on that

[modern jacinth]

we have an entire LFG Discord already.

https://discord.gg/JFTV2yTv

[zinc jay]

I don't personally see the point of making a channel for finding friends when, like, the answer usually is to just socialize and interact in this discord.

[versed mauve]

might i suggest adding a "looking for friends" tag to #1116899335628668979 then so that people looking for others can tag their posts with that which would also allow other people to search that tag

[modern jacinth]

oh misread there

[zinc jay]

Like not to sound like an ass but it's like, you can only do so much to help people "find friends" if they don't really want to put the effort in to do so themselves by socializing.

[modern jacinth]

One would think using the chats here could help find friends...

[sour dome]

for me, at least, i make friends just fine in game &/or in convos in side communities like this one. i like to see what questions people have about the game either so i can help out or learn something about a job i don't play or a function i've not given much thought, but lately "oh a new question" is more just an "oh... another scared/lonely person." which! is fine! i get that social anxiety is a thing, just like, "be my friend" isn't a question about the game, ya know?

[radiant frost]

i entered PvP area (wolfs den) if i dead, i lose all my items?

[ivory moat]

Wrong channel and you don’t lose items when you die, not that you could in wolf’s den to begin with

[winged lantern]

Nice server, active community, helpful members could add LFG channel or something

[merry ore]

that's under the recruitment tab at the bottom of the server tabs

[timid pilot]

We’ve historically had a dedicated LFG channel by way of the datacenter channels which got removed due to lack of use

[hoary garden]

LFG is also predominantly handled in game via Party Finder. LFG postings for social reasons are .... generally not a thing.

[dim path]

Hopefully this is the right area for Kupobot assistance.

• So i'm trying to get Kupobot to work on my FC Discord, but it's not doing anything. I tried it on a personal Discord and it worked fine, so i'm wondering, whats the general things that prevent it from functioning? I've checked its permissions and it should have everything it needs to function.

[hoary garden]

@dim path You likely want to check here. =)

[dim path]

bless ya good person 😛

[hollow parcel]

I wanna ask for a higher max tags for #1039986530783072336 so you can search for multiple roles without having to skip tags in some categories
but it seems the cap might be discord wide
pain

[ivory moat]

the heavenswhere site is going offline, so we should adjust the flying faq done

[median mantle]

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Aether_Currents could work I guess?

[half vigil]

Homie you have the ability to change the FAQs

[near robin]

I we should have a DDoS discord emote by now, since it's become such a common thing. sigh

[charred arrow]

[zinc jay]

[zinc jay]

is kupo's fflogs command not working rn?

[surreal shuttle]

You’re correct, it’s not working as of this message. Could be a lodestone thing. But if it’s not then bot devs should be working on it.

[median mantle]

xivapi is dead so its probably related to that, its also why the action commands and stuff arent working

[half vigil]

Nothing to do with lodestone. Possibly an fflogs outage but it seems to be back now

[urban bison]

In regards to gen-chat, I am getting a little tired of it constantly being image/gif of random anime, games, animals or whatever that don't add anything to the current conversation. Not sure if this is just me being boring but I tend to avoid that chat when I can because of it

[granite aurora]

completely agree, especially on the last part 👍

[azure gate]

Yeah sometimes the spam is just too much

[zinc jay]

Inclined to agree. But I think the issues with the channel are far more fundamental and I don't think there's a clean way to fix those issues.

[zinc jay]

I will say I think it definitely needs more regulation as ive seen new players many times join the server and ask for help as it's the first channel in the list and be met with toxicity or meme answers/misinformation. I again don't think there's really any way to fix that without impacting the culture/core clique of the channel but I think something must be done there.

[azure gate]

I know an easy fix for that, just move the general out of FFXIV category and into like non-FFXIV or its own category

[median mantle]

For the newbie issue: Maybe setting up the server guide feature could help? Could have a block for "Looking for help? Go here" or something

[zinc jay]

continuing on the topic of gen disc, while I do feel like cracking down on gif spam has helped a lot to improve the vibe of the channel, I still think there's a lot of issues with regular users who seemingly don't play ffxiv (anymore at least) spreading a lot of overwhelmingly negative sentiment on the game or they are just extremely hostile/argumentative. while absolutely people are entitled to their opinion, it is nonetheless the first impression that new discord users get (and potentially new players get) of the community.

I don't think there's any truly clean solution to this besides cutting down on blatant trolling/baiting in the channel.

[gray nexus]

Thank you for giving us that feedback we will discuss this

Mind you I’ve noticed that too so

[zinc jay]

I do also realize that this is like, the constant atmosphere of gen-disc and attempted fixes have been made a lot over the years, but something really needs to be done as the server gets busier. it just feels like in a lot of cases I see problematic regulars get a slap on the wrist and don't get more permanent actions which (though I acknowledge I am not a mod and thus don't make this decision) feels like it just sort of feeds into an atmosphere of negativity and hostility.

But I feel as though if this was fixed it would also resolve problems of off topic-ness in other channels/people being unsure where to talk about things, as a lot of the reason why people avoid gen-disc is due to its hostile cliquey nature.

[autumn fjord]

been feeling like it's really hard to chime in on ffxiv-related topics bc most discussions feel like i'm witnessing a friend group chat talking about unrelated things - so i just go to beginners lounge lol

[zinc jay]

legit. it's the same issue we had with beginners a few years back but much more outwardly hostile, aggressive, and drama thirsty. every time i go in there i either see an argument or some really severe bait about how ffxiv sucks bc xyz. it feels like a lot of people are just testing the limits of the rules n' stuff and getting away with it lol

[gray nexus]

If you two got any users in particular in mind that you noticed negatively impacting the channel please send us a modmail btw!

That also goes for anyone with the same problem

[mighty fossil]

i see the idea behind the current iteration, of #general-discussion , it's somewhat just #not-ffxiv-discussion and being the same channel but with a restriction.

i'd still see ffxiv content, it is #general-discussion , anything could be related to it, with a preference of being ff14 if possible, but there are a lot of ongoing topics cause it all still fits as it's not just "general ff14 discussions" that new players would have.

i'd try putting #general-discussion into non ffxiv (or swap with #not-ffxiv-discussion ), leave it there, bring #beginner-lounge or #questions-and-help to the top.

#beginner-lounge should succeed in what #ff14 discussions should've been now unless the current #general-discussion is going to flood it if it gets moved.

or drag general into non ff14 and be hands off about it with just general rules for hostility and such.

it's been a persistent issue, there may be a better solution by someone else, but it's what i think of it's current state that kept staying.

i didn't think discord would format it like this, but i'll just leave it

[zinc jay]

can and will do.

[gray nexus]

thank you!!

[violet plinth]

the issue with #beginner-lounge being the first channel then becomes people who don't read and get clapped for talking story in the first channel available. that was a big debate when #questions-and-help and #beginner-lounge were getting shuffled around last

[mighty fossil]

yeah, i did see that, then there's the general discussion route which is, very general with an ambiguous identify from ffxiv discussion, the debate? i forgot.

[charred arrow]

Hey the pastebin backup in the poetics faq needs to be updated to include all the EW stuff.

[timid pilot]

The pastebin was a temporary measure during the Reddit blackout for the faqs that relied on Reddit links, it’s been removed for now.

[zinc jay]

Might be beneficial to the server to make an ffxiv ttrpg channel either in the meta ffxiv content category or in #1012400549007732786.

on a similar subject, might be a good idea to move that category and the role lounges above the non-ffxiv category so people know theyre there?

[autumn parrot]

Someone already made a thread in the off-topic forum https://discord.com/channels/100463940835762176/1229407457932087336 but we'll discuss some things and see what we can do.

[hearty tapir]

Bot^

[zinc jay]

Open a #discord-modmail.

[ancient gale]

Ban Issued for lexi_kenna

@prime girder has been banned by tessiachan for the following reason:

art scammer

Banned from Final Fantasy XIV

[autumn parrot]

Open up a modmail next time if you ever get more of these but thank you!

[zinc jay]

No advertising.

[fallow glade]

why is it not sorting??

[round gull]

discord is just like that, shows everything thats part of, not the ones that only applies to both

[fallow glade]

i see.

[south notch]

the subreddit bot is borked, links to new posts give a 301 error

[tall thistle]

Is this a place to report a potential art scammer/seeker? fouetty1

[round gull]

#discord-modmail

[violet plinth]

#discord-modmail

[tall thistle]

Has been solved ^^

[azure gate]

uhh not really but kupobot should have a guide on unlinking if you use the faq, the exact command eludes my mind rn

[vestal osprey]

check the pins in #kupo-bot-spam

[long ridge]

BLounge suggested we suggest whitecarby emptythoughts as servermote and then someone went thru the effort of crop (idk if we'd need to adjust contrast up to make it work)

bit higher contrast if that would work better

maybe :emptycarby: or something lol

[violet plinth]

probably worth pinning the 7.1 schedule, maybe in #general-discussion or #questions-and-help . i see those getting asked a lot in the next week, lol

[next oar]

Somewhat weird suggestion, is it possible to have a command in #952326072542847016 that thread authors can use to specifically mark the issue in thread to be solved?

[neat sparrow]

it's not really needed

If ya problem is solved you can just leave it. Doesnt really help with anything imo.

[autumn parrot]

You know this isn't a channel for jokes

[indigo girder]

just a suggestion.
you could separate mentors into lore/new player/endgame/tech.
best icons would most easily be quest icons.
tech looks most like leve, there's already a lore quest icon, main for endgame, leave it as is for new player mentors.

place them below mentor.
order should probably be endgame/new player or lore/tech for those who have multiple roles (up to y'all if you decide to do this).

looking at it you shouldn't even need to change perms or make them higher than mentor.
just place the roles below mentor, remove the mentor role from showing on the sidebar and remove the icon.
keep them having the mentor role.
no permissions changing. the separate mentor types already have blank perms.
so if you just keep them having the mentor role to define them perms wise, then you don't have to change anything.
just changing what shows on the sidebar and making endgame mentor, lore mentor, new player mentor have new icons. that's it.
the colour for mentor is already the same for the separate mentor types.
all they need is a new icon and categories that show on the sidebar for them

no need to play around with perms and it should be somewhat simple to do without it affecting everything else.

reason being just people having more understanding of which kind of mentor they're speaking to, avoids some ambiguity and shows who they are more readily on the sidebar.

[gray nexus]

Mentors are already separated and have their own icon for all mentors further clarification isn’t necessarily needed

[zinc jay]

Inclined to agree with Ki that I think it may be beneficial for each sort of mentor to have different role icons, as there's a lot more mentors now and it isn't necessarily the easiest to discern who does what, especially if you are not a regular.

[indigo girder]

no one really clicks peoples profiles - seperating them in the sidebar and having differing icons would allow users to more readily know who they are.

[zinc jay]

A lot of other servers like the balance make the distinction, as well.

[indigo girder]

as they all tend to interact in differing channels, along with gen-disc, questions-and-help, beginner-lounge, endgame-lounge, etc.
as sen says there's a fair few mentors and many of them have experience in different fields.
for newer users having that specific distinction would be helpful.
as even to regular users it can be confusing as they are just 'mentors' unless you click their profile and find out what kind of mentor they are.
it would allow for clarity, and while it might not be necessary - clarity is always helpful, for new or older users.
particularly when it's a simple thing to implement.

[gray nexus]

It will be put into consideration

[topaz linden]

Hey team, I'm looking for some assistance with KupoBot. When I add it to a test server it works flawlessly but I can't get it to work in my FC server. I have tried removing and re-adding the app with permissions but it still shows offline and doesn't respond to commands. Any help would be appreciated.

[median mantle]

!faq kuposupport

bottom link to join their discord for help

[ancient gale]

Support Kupo Bot

https://www.patreon.com/kupobot

Link to the discord for further support

[topaz linden]

I'll try there. Thanks!

[finite plover]

hey everyone, i am a streamer thats just starting out and decided to try my first ff game and mmo all in one via ffonline. i asked if there was a promo chat for streamers but was told there was but it was taken down. Is there a place i put promo stuff when i stream or is that gone fully?

[violet plinth]

no, there is no such channel here. you can see all the available channels in id:customize but it just isn't here. maybe a post on the subreddit itself? or twitter/bluesky?

[finite plover]

I post on twitter but most people who ever see it are bots I feel like. I will post on the Reddit when I next stream. Thanky

[finite plover]

update on this, the reddit says they don't like advertising and i got downvoted a good bit.

[hoary garden]

Unfortunately, advertising is against Rule 5 here as well, so you'll want to find a separate venue to attract an audience.

[tall cradle]

LOL

[ancient gale]

Ban Issued for naomi_wolf1092604

@quaint lark has been banned by tessiachan for the following reason:

Scam/spam

Banned from Final Fantasy XIV

[zinc jay]

Seems to be a bot wave going on, just so yall know.

[scarlet thunder]

there's a recruiter mass reporting other recruiters btw

[half vigil]

What

[scarlet thunder]

multiple accounts have been banned for spam from someone mass reporting here

[half vigil]

If you have proof of this happening you can submit a #discord-modmail but otherwise this isn't really helpful

[zinc jay]

Can y'all add RADAR to #resources? https://discord.gg/dmuCztk2

[zinc jay]

Reiterating the suggestion of adding RADAR to #resources https://discord.gg/qbcad5C8GC

And also asking/suggesting as well for there to be a rule added which requires art to be posted with credit. I know #art mandates this rule but I don't think any other channel does it, and while it may be one of those unspoken rules it may be good to put it in there just for something to point to

[untold sequoia]

Added to #resources, we'll discuss the other thing

[dark hazel]

Hey, so we’ve discussed this and unfortunately we cannot enforce a hard requirement for artists to be credited due to the server being so large as is. However, we do ask users to please credit the artist when they can as a common courtesy thing. On the other hand, what we can enforce is that claiming another artist’s work as your own is worthy of being actioned.

[zinc jay]

Valid, and that probably is sufficient.

[vestal blade]

Are you open to creating a section dedicated to ffxiv mobile when it comes out?

[charred arrow]

#ffxiv-mobile-general

[kind inlet]

As a heads up to moderation, while Square Enix itself appears to have set up an official presence on Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/square-enix-games.com) the most logical name for an official FFXIV profile appears to presently be occupied by a parody account (https://bsky.app/profile/finalfantasyxiv.bsky.social).
When we get to the point that FFXIV's social media team has stuff to communicate on non-Twitter platforms, this will probably become important information.

Square Enix (@square-enix-games.com)

The Official Square Enix Bluesky page. Get the latest updates https://www.square-enix-games.com/

🎮FINAL FANTASY VII Rebirth is available on Steam and Epic Games Store now!
🎮Dragon Quest III: HD-2D Remake is available now!

Bluesky

Bluesky

[civic pier]

going to ask about the announcement, would screenshots of posts from that site be ok or links like "fixupx"?

[hollow owl]

if we have clips of ffxiv that are posted on twitter, what is the best way we can share them without causing an issue? i dont like the direction that twitter is going but i do get a lot of ffxiv content from it that i like to share in endgame lounge sometimes.

[misty temple]

enforcing a punishable ban on all twitter links/redirects seems like a pretty good way to explode your own server if that’s the route we’re going down. i’m sorta okay with reminders of “hey links from that site aren’t allowed” or an auto-delete but i expect many people will not be happy if they get auto-muted for accidentally sharing a link to it if you treat this like other blacklisted terms and topics.

it’s a fine thing to have morals but please do consider that this is still a very, very commonly used site and in some cases the only way for artists, etc. to maintain their community and online presence, and banning mention or sharing of their content that happens to be on that platform seems like a bad play

[sacred zephyr]

We're still discussing some of the specifics and we'll address the screenshot thing when we're ready to make the full announcement. We still welcome feedback on the matter until then, of course.

[sacred zephyr]

There are plenty of other communities that until recently relied heavily on twitter links and they've managed to pivot away just fine. A good example is the NFL subreddit, I believe? A majority of their posts were actually twitter links since that's where most of the players reside. Regardless, they pivoted.

[umbral spruce]

could !faq gearguide be updated with the level 100 guide?

[sacred zephyr]

It's good to keep in mind we're not going to start muting and banning people on the spot for posting a twitter link. Rather the most likely outcome is the message will just be autodeleted.

[surreal shuttle]

Important to mention that as said in the announcement the particulars are still being finalized internally

[sacred zephyr]

Blitz completely ignoring that I said that 3 messages ago. Smh my head.

[misty temple]

presumably the name got me auto-muted but i don't feel like typing it again so i censored it

[untold sequoia]

As Hiccup said we're still working out the details before it goes live, however the current intent is to only have links auto removed, and not have people be auto muted for it

And yes, mentioning Elon Musk is what caused the auto mute so please be mindful of that when giving feedback here

[zinc jay]

To be frank, as much as I hate the muskrat, I am inclined to agree with valcors. I don't think non-twitter resources or communities are robust enough quite yet for such a move to be made. A large number of people still use twitter, the ffxiv community is very much still centralized around there, it feels like shooting yourself in the foot in a way that would only result in false positives and an unneccessarily high level of punishments/actions on users.

Also as valcors said, a lot of artists still are established on twitter. By banning it you will probably kill the activity in #art.

To me this feels like a rash decision that will unfairly target innocent users who do not support the political beliefs of said muskrat, even though you are taking a few days to roll it out.

[hollow owl]

if i can add on here, a lot of savage content gets discussed and shared on twitter especially with clips of strats being shown as well as just wacky stuff that happens in the game. removing the ability to post clips from it honestly hurts discussion as we wouldnt be able to share active developments in endgame content just because it was posted on twitter first. i absolutely hate muskrat and the trash he does and says but i dont think censoring the site is the way to go

[zinc jay]

Similarly by doing so I feel as though you unnecessarily paint with a broad brush irt to people who still use twitter and what they believe.

Many queer people still use twitter because they have no choice, no other source of community. They are not to blame for the actions of the person that owns it, and to lump them together in a way by means of an outright ban feels unnecessarily heavy handed.

I wouldn't go to the extent of "killing the server" but as I said, you will have many, many false positives.

[sacred zephyr]

The action wouldn't target users because, as I mentioned earlier, we're not handing out warnings and bans for posting a twitter link. The desire is to stop supporting that specific platform. Artists have always used multiple platforms to display their work, and in recent months many have already made the move to places like Bluesky which, last I counted, was at about 28 million users.

[zinc jay]

Sorry but that's irrelevant. It still objectively targets users.

[sacred zephyr]

I understand some people would find it difficult to adjust at first, but I completely disagree that it would be impossible.

You can still use the platform at your discretion, this would simply be about linking that platform here in this community.

[misty temple]

the "killing the server" bit was my assumption that the ban would be treated like all other term and topic-based bans and handing out mutes for that, but if that's not the case then it's a less dire action than i initially believed. fully agree with you on this

[zinc jay]

This is an extremely narrow minded take. Like, do you not realize how large this server is? How many people use it? And what they use it for?

Making such a major decision to cut off one of the largest social media sites and thereby stifling a large amount of discussion in channels like #endgame-lounge, #1161031547634327572, and #general-discussion even is just wild. Being seemingly being so set on it without taking feedback is.... also questionable.

This isn't r/nfl. The FFXIV community thrives on discussion, outside resources, decentralized discussions. By removing twitter you make it extremely difficult to share resources or have any sort of lengthy conversation. If you don't see that I'm not sure what to say.

[silent flower]

Be the change you want to see in the community. Move to alternative sites. If the house is burning and can’t be saved, you grab what you can and start over somewhere else. You don’t run back inside the burning house and go ‘but my things’.

[zinc jay]

Even if users weren't muted or actioned for posting links it would effectively be a punishment, because again, twitter is a very large site with a lot of varying resources and information. Art, lore, optimization.

[sacred zephyr]

It would not be difficult, because information proliferates easily. It doesn't last on a single platform for long. Not to mention, the more places encourage this ban, the more push there is for people to move their content to more platforms, thus increasing the availability.

[zinc jay]

Yeah, no. Sorry. This is an ignorant take, and I'm speaking as someone who has used bluesky for two years. Punishing people for using one of the largest sites in the world does nothing. It solves nothing. It just isolates innocent people who use it more.

[sacred zephyr]

Again, there is no punishment.

Regardless, I'm not going to engage in this specific discussion beyond this point. Not because I'm personally unwilling to listen, but because this is a decision that's already been made. We're working on the specifics and we'll let people know soon enough. The earlier announcement was just to give people a heads up.

[zinc jay]

Filtering out links from one of the largest social media sites is a punishment.

[untold sequoia]

I believe their view is that not being able to post Twitter links is in itself a punishment, it would help if we get all on the same page on what word's we're using and what we're meaning

[misty temple]

sure, if it was the case that the site was going down altogether and not a voluntary ban. many people still and will continue to rely on the site for community engagement because you can't simply find a new place for your things and expect everything to be the same. not a great metaphor for this situation

[zinc jay]

Then the mod team is ignorant. I'm sorry. But this isn't a decision you make for a massive server with thousands of users without asking their opinion about it. The majority of subreddits that i've seen that have made this decision have put it up to a vote, or let users chime in.

This isn't some small community server, feedback must be taken, and users deserve to be a part of that decision process.

[fossil moss]

It is indeed strange that you guys just decide to act on it. Any subreddit I joined in they have a poll for people to vote wether or not to ban the links Poll is available on discord as well.

[umbral fog]

done

[umbral spruce]

ty

[ornate pelican]

At this point the ban is occurring and we’re not openly taking feedback on whether or not it’ll occur.

[safe charm]

i'm already on bluesky. in an ideal world, everyone would be on that instead. but they're not, and usually because they can't afford to swap entirely to boycott something they've relied on for their whole careers as artists or whole followings for other content creators and influencers. i don't think this ban helps the community even if it's done with earnest intent, but i get it.

it fucking sucks, but it's how it is. speaking as a trans woman that's been heavily upset by recent event. if the ban's gonna happen, so be it. just wanted to express it is tragic there is nothing better that can realistically be done

[ornate pelican]

We are a discord tied to the subreddit and our discussion was held together. We will likely have similar enforcement of the ban.

[zinc jay]

That is not what I said.

[gusty peak]

I fully support this ban

[next oar]

Can mod teams put additional effort on smooth transition at least? "We decided this, figure it out what happens after by yourself" doesn't seem like a good way to deliver the decision.

[ornate pelican]

The announcement was just a declaration a ban will be occurring. Once details are finalized those will be posted along with the actual enforcement.

You will know exactly the rules once they are agreed upon it won’t be a mystery.

As mentioned by other mods the one policy we have finalized is there will be no punishment for posting links other than the automod will prevent the link from being sent. There will be no warning, no mute, and mods won’t even be notified you attempted to send a link.

[next oar]

I'm not sure whats the mod team's definition of "final detail" is. that response doesn't really mean anything to me unless theres more communication to be done

[zinc jay]

This, it just doesn't work practically. It doesn't feel like all of the factors or variables were considered, like again how strats are shared on twitter or jp and kr use twitter still a lot.

[surreal shuttle]

In this context it means how the ban will work practically. This is what it is being discussed internally.

[onyx shale]

My concern is with the discussion part. A lot of interesting stuff in endgame is shared via twitter pots only. If it's banned, what avenues are we to take there? Do you just expect us to manually repost everything onto bluesky just so we can have a discussion in endgame?

And screenshots DO NOT work when the stuff shared are videos/clips

[surreal shuttle]

The fact of whether or not the ban will happen has been agreed upon by the mod team

[ornate pelican]

Essentially we’re discussion enforcement and what to do about screenshots specifically.

[zinc jay]

The mod team do not make up the entire userbase of this server.

[civic pier]

since u are here Eanae, would links that alter twitter links be allowed? like fixupx? or probably not as well

[surreal shuttle]

No

Wont be allowed

[onyx shale]

Does the mod team expect us to steal someone's video/clip on Twitter, reupload it to another platform, then only share it here?

[ornate pelican]

Your opinion is noted but the ban is happening. If you’re that reliant on a Nazi propaganda platform perhaps you should find an alternative.

[ornate pelican]

Those will all be removed as well.

[next oar]

How you all decide the agreement you all made covers the sufficient use case for this server? Do you intend to cover the entire use case of twitter in this server, or are you all considering dropping certain use cases?

[misty temple]

in regards to screenshots, i feel as though most people's initial course of action would be to - upon seeing or realizing that their link is auto-deleted - screenshot the post instead and share that. people won't generally go out of their way to hunt for an "alternative source" to information they see on one platform, so if screenshots of twitter posts are disallowed as well that's a pretty great way to stifle potential discussions altogether.

[onyx shale]

Screenshots won't even work for the main use case of #endgame-lounge, which is video/clips. Might as well say there's no strat sharing allowed unless someone kindly reposts it to bluesky

[civic pier]

speaking on this, for videos, is there an easy to download twitter videos? otherwise those are unshareable (i cant seem to find a way on the site)

[ornate pelican]

You have to pay to do that.

[safe charm]

I don't mean to imply anything otherwise because I despise Musk and think he should absolutely be punished for his crimes, but understand that Twitter is a platform that is just beyond Musk.

It's artists, people from different countries that have no stakes in American politics, and people in our community who have no better avenue to go to.

The ban makes sense. Your viewpoint makes sense, but the reason why there's even a discussion is because Twitter is more than what Musk is trying to make it.

[onyx shale]

So you're saying we need to pay for a feature on Twitter if we want to share strat videos here huh

[civic pier]

i do agree, despite all the block and muting i do of certain terms, i get the same ads sent my way that are in no way my interests or similiar to my likes/tweets, its obvious what he is now using the platform for

[next oar]

I personally think how you all decide and deliver the decision needs a lot of fine tuning for this specific case. this doesn't seem like the thing that can be decided by mod team alone. there's no way such a limited number of people can cover and decide how the changes should be delivered for the entire use cases, without listening to people who actively use them.

[ornate pelican]

This was valid before the events of this week. We’ve had this talk as a team multiple times. The team unanimously agreed to not ban links before these events. We view this as the point of no return for the platform and what it morally means for us.

[misty temple]

yeah i'm sorry this is the wildest take i've ever heard. why are we suddenly vilifying everyone who's ever used or shared twitter posts?

[fossil moss]

If you receive this much feedback about the decisions you made on others behalf without their input. Maybe it’s time to consider why

[rich elm]

time to hop on facebook i guess

[safe charm]

I respect the morality and principle of the situation in spite of the logistical loss.

[onyx shale]

Can't do that, fb is just as bad remember

[minor kelp]

Ngl I'm pretty surprised that people are shocked that a site that has become a political tool is being blocked on a server with a strict no politics rule

[next oar]

Meanwhile may I suggest setting up thread for this, this discussion is going to last for a while

[surreal shuttle]

There won’t be a community discussion on this beyond what is going on here. The ban is happening. The how it will work part is still being discussed

[safe charm]

I think it's reductive to say people are surprised when the most valid and prevalent argument I've been hearing is just wondering how FFIXV community members are able to post their content if twitter is their only avenue. Not refuting the ban, just saying that's what I've observed as the main concern

[ornate pelican]

The team has spent multiple days discussing. This wasn't a decision we made quickly or without debate.

[fossil moss]

Is there any reasons why this is not discussed with the users and let users vote? Why are only mods allowed in this discussion when there are hundreds of thousands of us unaccounted for? We are not even aware of this would be a thing. There’s no heads up, just you are doing it and we are expect to take it without any questions because mods decide on our behalf?

[ornate pelican]

There was quite a large thread on the Subreddit in regards to this and this Discord is an extension of the subreddit.

[onyx shale]

Subreddit's users aren't discord users

It feels like you're just fucking discord users over if you're assuming all of us scroll and engage on the subreddit

[next oar]

I don't really think saying that is going to help here man. that adds no meaning to the discussion but stir the pot

[merry ore]

some of us, I'd imagine a great amount really, don't interact on there at all

[gusty peak]

honestly should've banned Twitter a while ago, it's been a terrible platform enabling terrible people for a while and its owner has gone so far up his own ass that he's turning into a black hole

[fossil moss]

Not all of us uses Reddit. Least you can do is link it here in announcement. Since you said yourself it is a subreddit discord. But not all people comes here has a Reddit account. Hell even GOTY casually dropping the discord invite to this server

[ornate pelican]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1i6udwl/petition/

[hollow owl]

but what about the users that use this discord but not reddit? i mean i know this server is an offshoot off the reddit but its kinda wonky that you would let another entity decide the fate of the other

[ornate pelican]

There are plenty of alternative sources of information.

[civic pier]

sorry to bump in, but this site seems to work p well for downloading videos/gifs: https://twittervideodownloader.com/

[fossil moss]

So you link it now when we brought it up? And not when you guys are deliberating it among your own?

[hollow owl]

sure but i personally dont use reddit that much since i cannot keep up with all these social media platforms. it just doesnt seem right to outright ban another site when the userbase has had little input into it and it was something that only the moderators discussed

[onyx shale]

I guess the way I see it is that it's fully the admin/mod decision since its their discord, and any unwanted input will have no bearing on the decision made

[fossil moss]

Even if you look at the upvotes which are 15.5k, you have got to be in some sort of denial if you think that is somewhat accountable for the 200k+ people in here that share the same sentiment or support your decision. And the post is not even a vote. Most people “vote” with an upvote button. This is not a vote, this is a “discussion” at best, a discussion that about 185 thousand of us are not a part of

[gusty peak]

bruh you're arguing in bad faith now

[fiery jackal]

there is maybe like 1000 of those people active a day

[short sail]

Frankly I had no idea that the poll was even happening on the subreddit, or that subreddit moderation decisions were always the the decisions of the discord server as well. I am not opposed to a ban of twitter, and would probably vote for it if a poll was held, but this feels like an overreach of authority for a moderation team to make such sweeping decisions for a 250,000 member server. If people want to contribute in boycotting twitter than let them decide it for themselves

[fossil moss]

Ok tell me why

[ornate pelican]

Actually daily actives is around 200, weekly around 600

[untold sequoia]

Guys please don't turn this into a shit flinging match

Remember to be respectful

[next oar]

I think most of us (I'm speaking behalf of sitri, valcors, cotton, jess and etc) aren't really trying to argue against decision to deliver the ban. It's about how you all decide to handle the situation that kinda bothers most of us.

Because the "mod team discussion" is a black box thing, The delivery of this decision and argument seems like a rash decision to me. I am 100% sure that there are a lot of things you all discussed but getting lost

[misty temple]

what i'm taking away from this discussion (if you can even call it that) is that we're not part of their "team" so whatever input we have is irrelevant.

[umbral spruce]

!faq scripunlock

[ancient gale]

House of Splendors Unlock Quests

Unlocking Crafter & Gatherer Scrips (Foundation x10, y10)
Unlocking Master Recipe Books (Mor Dhona x22, y7)
Unlocking Idyllshire’s House of Splendors (Mor Dhona x22, y6)
Unlocking Rhalgr’s Reach House of Splendors (Rhalgr’s Reach x10, y12)
Unlocking Eulmore’s House of Splendors (Eulmore x11, y10, on the top floor)
Unlocking Radz-at-Han’s House of Splendors (Radz-at-Han x11, y9)
Unlocking Solution Nine’s House of Splendors (Solution Nine x9, y13)

[hollow owl]

what if we made a compromise on the content of the twitter posts? the post itself would have to relate to ffxiv in some sort of way while any non ffxiv content would have to be vetted?

[fossil moss]

Like I said, you guys decide this without any input or even any awareness from 200k users. Expect people to be frustrated

[untold sequoia]

Did you need more changes to this?

[safe charm]

At the minimum, regardless of anyone's given stances about the state of the website, I don't think it would've hurt anyone to do a ping in here for it if it was so relevant to the message the mod team wants to give in regards to Elon's fascist ideals.

[umbral spruce]

link consolegameswiki please

[surreal shuttle]

To reiterate, no one is going to get any moderator action (warns bans etc) for posting Twitter links post ban. It’ll just be auto deleted by Kupo just like saying any word we don’t allow here

[ornate pelican]

This isn't a debate on the ban. The ban is occurring as stated. The notice in #announcements was simply to give a headsup, not to ask for feedback.

[untold sequoia]

We're discussing it now

[onyx shale]

And I question eanae's statement that the mod team had a uninimous agreement to it. Was it really a unanimous agreement after a long and proper discussion? Or was it a quick "hey we're doing it and if you say no speak up, and no one spoke up so it was taken as a uninimous agreement. The way it was told to us here via an announcement and without a plan to even implement it looks very rash on our end

[fossil moss]

How is that soften the blow. Auto delete links is censoring it. Esp when Twitter is used as a platform for discussion, regardless of its owner’s stance

[ornate pelican]

I did not want to rugpull with no warning, hence the announcement.

[zinc jay]

That's poor practice, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be rude. But not letting people here give any feedback or vote or discuss on it when the subreddit had that chance, and other subreddits and discords have it, is not a fair move to make.

[misty temple]

you may as well have. there's no difference between people getting upset now vs later if it's gonna happen anyway.

[surreal shuttle]

The discussion/debate over the merits of it was had internally.

[fossil moss]

Again, why is this internally?

[next oar]

I am sure that you covered a lot of use cases, but we cannot see that.

The discussion happening right now was bound to happen regarding this decision, and now most of us are rushing into #discord-feedback throwing a lot of questions that could've been in the "long discussion" you guys had with only mod team presumably long time ago.

[surreal shuttle]

This has been discussed within the team over the past few days since the inciting incident

I can’t say any more than that publicly

[zinc jay]

Are you not understanding us? Like, seriously.

[fossil moss]

you guys have yet to provide with any answer on why we are not allow any input on this is even a thing.
You repeating “the team” is not going to change it. The users are not mods. Our names are not blue and we are not included in the discussion

[zinc jay]

I mean, there's a number of mods and staff who lurk or do not use the server publicly much at all, I don't see why they should have more say over decisions that impact the community here than the regular users in this server. It feels like parents making decisions for their kids "because they know better."

Being vague about what discussions were had and what was said behind the scenes is meaningless to me, as a user. Because you have not considered the other factors, and the collateral damage, especially in a community so heavily focused around sharing resources and information via twitter.

[onyx shale]

You all say you've discussed it a lot internally. But the whole clip/video user case should have been one of the first things flagged by people who regularly use #endgame-lounge? And saying idk just screenshot it feels like no one who is 'involved' in the discussion actually frequent there

[minor kelp]

if only there were other sites where clips could be uploaded

[waxen root]

A big thing: This ban is not intended to be an attack on any of you here. However, much information relevant to FFXIV does not take place primarily on a social media platform, it usually occurs on the official pages SE controls. You can still discuss it's information freely if you like, but by and large Twitter hasn't been a very good place for discussion since the many changes it has had since the ownership was transferred. If you are taking this as an attack, I can't really say much else.

Instead of just linking information from Twitter, chose to post it to the subreddit directly instead, or just post it directly here. Youtube still exists for video uploads, as well as other social media sites if you absolutely must.

[pallid owl]

That's an argument made in bad faith.

[zinc jay]

Similarly if the answer to the twitter ban is "just screenshot it" then why bother banning twitter at all if it can still be shared so easily?

[fossil moss]

You don’t speak for anyone, including the mods. It’s why vote or some sort of announcement “hey the mod team are thinking of this, what are your thoughts”. And it is also not fair that a small team of mods get to decide for people who use the server. You don’t speak for everyone and so does the mods and admins

[safe charm]

this is precisely the issues creators and artists face: moving to a new platform is NOT simple for getting people to see your content or information.

[next oar]

I'm gonna simplify this
We are not saying "Why are we banning this platform"
We are saying "Why can't you all communicate this better"

Can you all tell us why you all can't communicate and discuss how the decision is being handled?

[zinc jay]

Respectfully, this is a terrribly bad faith argument and fully ignores all of the reasons I and other users have given as to why this is a bad decision.

[onyx shale]

Also, if shue is asking us to reupload someone's clip on our own site, isn't that stealing people's clips???

[gusty peak]

bro has never heard of how server moderation works

[silent flower]

It was communicated fine. You don’t like decision. That’s on you.

[minor kelp]

I'm suggesting that people who create the things can post them on multiple platforms, nothing more

[waxen root]

I'm not part of the staff involved with the ban, but there's not much else to say right now. Just that kupobot will be removing links in the future, and there will be no consequences for removed messages. What needs to be clarified?

[merry ore]

I don't like the site as much as others, but here, on discord, I like the vibes, I gravitated here and not the forums because that's not the kind of interactions I search for, and knowing how the official forums are, I think I can have better conversations here

[safe charm]

...I didn't even know this announcement was happening until this discussion happened? Even if a vote isn't happening, why wasn't that done with the... critical announcement to warn people?

[fossil moss]

Irrelevant, I do not want or care for your opinion about how server moderating work. And most users don’t, so don’t come in here with this condescending argument when you don’t contribute anything please

[timid pilot]

I do not see any inherent issues with the GE links. That said I have plans to adjust the wording of the link names for better clarity on what they unlock.

[zinc jay]

Stop trying to start something when all of us are doing our best to have a respectful conversation.

[untold sequoia]

Guys please, be nice

[umbral spruce]

the cgw pages have more clarity on what they actually do and how you can tell if you have completed one

[hollow owl]

shue man this really doesnt contribute anything at all. yes there are other sources where these clips can be posted but removing the main source of where information is shared as well assuming that everyone here would know where these sources come from doesnt help anyone. this entire decision being made is a bit of a blindspot to me as a frequent user of this server as there was no hint or any actual discussion being made until it happened.

[untold sequoia]

Respect each other's opinions

[round gull]

on topic of respect can you stop with this @fiery jackal

[next oar]

Can you all make a thread for this please?

[onyx shale]

Bro we're trying to have a discussion, and we're being told to fuck off by people who support the decision. Is this how things are going to be?

[untold sequoia]

I will bring it up with the team

@fiery jackal And yes, stop it

[fossil moss]

okay thank for your screenshot of my words, what is your point beside mocking me? Are you contributing anything since this is a feedback channel?

[zinc jay]

Can you also just deal with the people trying to incite stuff? Like, it's getting nothing done, means nothing. I and everyone else are giving polite feedback.

[half vigil]

!mute 133298657821720576 12h

[ancient gale]

Success!

@fiery jackal has been muted by @half vigil for 12 hours!

[safe charm]

Argue in good faith and actually respond or do not participate in this discussion, please.

[gusty peak]

I'm telling you that you only speak for yourself, after you told someone else they only speak for themselves. I speak for myself when I say that I support this ban. There are rules in this server I don't support, this is not one of them.

[fossil moss]

Ok and several people don’t? It’s why we have this discussion

[safe charm]

The ban is happening either way, nothing Green has said has warranted any vitriol. They aren't shit-slinging in bad faith, unlike, say, posting a short line from a sentence screencap as a snide response instead of having said this in the first place.

[sacred zephyr]

Lets please keep the temperature down a little folks.

[zinc jay]

I would check yourself if you think anyone who believes this is a bad decision is automatically intolerant/supportive of the muskrat. Twitter is far bigger than that.

[gusty peak]

🤷 all right I'll stop

[safe charm]

I mean this in the most respectable sense, the mods can most definitely take care of themselves if they find something warranting negativity that would violate the rules of conduct here. Because they quite literally do.

Retalation against other users on that pretense is the issue.

[untold sequoia]

Yes, frankly I'm more concerned with how you are all talking to each other than how you're talking to us

[open lark]

i mean if you need to use a tool to download a video or gif off of twitter to share on reddit or here, arent you already supporting twitter by even being on there in the first place?

[ornate pelican]

If I got upset everytime someone strongly disagreed with me I would have quit years ago.

[pallid owl]

This feels like armchair activism with no thought given to what's actually being gained and lost lol
Who looks at a bunny picture embedded from twitter and thinks "Yep I'm supporting a Nazi"
Nobody needs you to make the decision of what they are and are not allowed to look at for them especially when the subject material is completely innocuous and literally just embedding media does not tangibly support, or indicate belief in the owner of the company's ideals

If you've ever bought a Nestle product you've done more to support evil than if you read Twitter

I know my opinion is worth absolutely nothing to yall but here it is anyways

[next oar]

I do agree that I see a bit of frustration peeking through the sentence here and there, but I don't really think that's something you should step into.

[sacred zephyr]

Unless you sit there calling me an asshole, I don't care. You're free to share your feedback on the decision, either for or against, but try to speak to each other respectfully.

[onyx shale]

And look, if you're trying to get buy in on people here or idk actually try to make a change, it be waaaaay more effective if people were given the heads up or even the illusion that they were part of the discussion

Part of the frustration here is (1) announcement coming out of left field for discord users (2) assuming that we're all reddit users too and have engaged with that petition post

As it stands now, it feels like discord is the second class citizen here

[ornate pelican]

It's about picking the battles you can. Can I and do I avoid Chic-Fil-A? Yes absolutely. Walmart? Yep. Not everyone can take on every single cause but we can absoutely pick and choose the causes we do stand behind. And this ban is in that same regard. This is a battle we as a team can choose. Are we going to hurt Twitters bottom line? Absolutely not. But we can choose to support our LGBT and marginalized communities by removing traffic from a tool weaponized against them.

[hollow owl]

i just don't understand why this decision was made without any input from the user base and only within the mod team when the userbase is the one that shares stuff from Twitter in the first place. it doesn't sit well with me knowing that this decision was something that only you guys discussed and i don't really see the moderators interact with the userbase besides a select few mods.

just because i shared a gif of a bunny being squished by a fence from Twitter doesn't mean i like muskrat and support his terrible views and ideals, i just wanted to share the gif with some people that I consider friends in this server. i like that I can share clips of silly wipes in ffxiv in endgame lounge and can even ask the frequent why they wiped or have them explain the strats to me. outright removing the ability to post Twitter links isn't the play to protest muskrats terrible behavior

[pallid owl]

I think that's a choice for people to make on their own. This is not support, this is a knee-jerk. Especially when you have literal members of said LGBTQ and marginalized communities arguing that it's a stupid idea.

[misty temple]

atp sharing feedback feels like a pointless endeavor since you've all made it pretty clear you don't care about our feedback in this particular instance.

[ornate pelican]

There is a vocal minority here upset as always happens in scenarios like this.

[pallid owl]

How do you know it's a minority when you didn't even ask?

[zinc jay]

If you are so sure it is a vocal minority why is the server not allowed to vote on it themselves? Why are you making that decision for us without asking?

[fossil moss]

Why do you keep saying “we”, we are not the mod teams, we are the users. Clearly we as non blue users name are not “we” because “we” decided

[onyx shale]

But how do you define a vocal minority. The 200k people who don't engage with this discord are the majority that doesn't care about the post. I guess the 50k people who actually use the discord are a minority then

[safe charm]

...what do you mean by vocal minority? we are the only people that have talked about it with y'all if it was an entirely internal discussion

[fossil moss]

And you have yet to answer, WHY is it an internal discussion? I have asked this question at least twice before and it is actively unanswered

[zinc jay]

As someone who uses the server a lot I can say for a fact everyone in this channel is a serious regular of the ffxiv section, in various channels. It's not like we're randoms, a vocal minority. We're the daily drivers of activity.

[hollow owl]

this might be an antedote but the users that have spoke up in this discussion so fair are the usual in the main lounges. if our points don't mean anything then is this decision really being made in good faith with the userbase in mind?

[pallid owl]

Everyone speaking here is a pretty large chunk of the people most active in this server

[next oar]

Judging by this sentence alone I have an impression that you are perceiving this discussion as "us vs them" which I really hope it's not the case.
What do you mean by vocal minority and does that include us that giving feedback to you all?

[pearl halo]

Personally I think this is a change that has been coming for a long time, it was only a matter of time before the Muskrat showed his true colours

[zinc jay]

I have 232K messages in this server mostly in the ffxiv section, its like. I know how people think here, I know how they use twitter. All of the users I'm seeing in favor of the ban are people I have not seen before or frequently.

[fossil moss]

I think at this point is it’s very clear it’s never about the users, it’s about “we” (the mods and admins) and they made that very clear by not including people in the discussion and actively not answer why it is an internal discussion and not allow any input or taking any feedback

and when we are “allow” feedback, it is like this. It’s basically a done deal and we are expected to accept it without questions

[zinc jay]

I think collectively the people in this channel who have spoken against this ban have a total of over a million messages.

[next oar]

Let's align ourselves that almost no one is against this ban, but rather how the delivery is being handled without properly addressing the edge cases
We wouldn't care about the ban if the change didn't impact how we use this server. it could've been a snap decision and wouldn't make a difference if no one used twitter

[short sail]

I respect the right for people to boycott services of their choice, but if this decision is made to help the most people possible than let the people decide what is helpful or harmful. I don't believe there is any reason to step in on a persons choice as if they can't help themselves. If the people of this server want a ban than give it to them, but let them decide for themselves.

[onyx shale]

Echoing with Es, the implementation for it just doesn't seem very thought out for the users here

[vivid raft]

at the very least, its something to note that people's displeasure is known with regards to the decision, but otherwise its not really gonna change much anytime soon id say, yeah

[onyx shale]

Like even right now, the fact that the muskrat's name is a banned term here is out of left field. How many people trying to have a discussion here about this got slapped with a 1h mute, just because they used that dbag's name directly

[untold sequoia]

2 people

[next oar]

Communication is arguably one of the most difficult thing when delivering a certain decision.
I understand you all are frustrated about us coming up like as a group and trying to argue about the decision you all already have made, but the same can be said for receiving end of the announcement as well

[sacred zephyr]

A reminder that the actual implementation of the ban has yet to be announced, outside of one key point: Nobody is getting banned, warned, or muted for posting a twitter link. It'll merely be autodeleted.

[ornate pelican]

2 and I've lifted them both.

[merry ore]

It also probably doesn’t help discussion of this by announcing it when 1/2 to 1/3 of the NA player base is either getting ready for bed, eating dinner, driving home from work or asleep already

[mighty fossil]

regarding the announcement
i'd suggest it to be a mute instead for how common and sudden a ban would be
this is an extreme overreaction imo and i didn't even know what's going on in twitter

there are a lot of media related to twitter that would be incredibly easy to slip up on from copy and pasting

[zinc jay]

Reiterating this over and over shows you are not reading what people are saying.

[next oar]

We are no longer discussing about what happens if we trigger the rule violation. we are asking "did you all REALLY thought about this through?"

[fossil moss]

There are like 3 or 4 mods that have been repeating the same thing. It feels intentional and very customer servicey that basically said it’s done and nothing you can do about it.

[zinc jay]

I'm also upset over the decision itself, frankly. It doesn't feel like you understand the practical use of twitter and how "just leave lol" isn't something everyone can do.

[hollow owl]

echoing woods, this is a move that needs to sit with the community for the next few days and let us think and discuss this decision in detail like we are now. making such a power play so suddenly just feels wrong when we all actively use this server to chat with each other. everyone in here is actively discussing it because we love this server and love being able to interact with each other freely. having a method of sharing things that can invite discussion and possibly some great moments in the server really makes it seem like this was a move that wasn't truly planned out. yes you can say that the mod team mulled over it for a few days but with the introduction of new mods and the like, has this decision really been looked thru?

[ornate pelican]

Implimentation will occur over the weekend or by Monday but there is no discussion to be had. We are not soliciting feedback on this change.

[mighty fossil]

even if it's a mute, i'd still think it'd be an overreaction for how easy it is to forget, feel free to simply discourage the use of it, but don't punish people intentionally for using a method of sharing media

[zinc jay]

Stonewalling regular users by repeating the same thing over and over as if that is going to eventually satisfy us just isn't fair, and it isn't good moderation for such a large server.

[sacred zephyr]

I won't speak for the others, but the reason I am sticking to facts is because the decision has already been made and because we haven't announced the full implementation of the ban. I cannot offer anything to you outside of my own personal opinion, and that would be of no use to you.

[merry ore]

We understand the reasoning, but what kind of reaction was expected from an announcement like this?
Genuinely, it’s why we’re piling in here

[zinc jay]

I'll hope you guys know, speaking as a regular who does talk to a lot of people in this server, that you will kill activity in a number of channels by doing this.

[hollow owl]

i don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, but does this discussion of the userbase trying to say that this isn't a good idea make you hesitate? i know you're trying to protect the LGBT members of the server but they themselves are people who can decide what they do and do not do.

[sacred zephyr]

But again, there's nothing more for me to really add at this point so I'm going to step away for now. I understand the point of view expressed by a handful of you, I respect it, but I also personally disagree and I would like to leave it there until we've made the full announcement.

[fossil moss]

Again, why is this an internal discussion in the first place. That is my question. All mods have been saying is “we” (mods only) discussed this for the past few days. But the question remains, the blue names “we” are not the majority “we”

[mighty fossil]

if the ban is to simply autodelete twitter links without actually punishing the user for accidentally posting related links, ok, that can be worked with if you really want to go down that route

there is a lot of oopsies if someone accidentally shares a twitter link

[ornate pelican]

This is what it is, yes. There is no punishment attached.

[next oar]

Thanks for at least try to communicate with us btw

[fossil moss]

Repeating “we have been discussing about this” is not answering any question but making people more frustrated. And it proves the point of why people are frustrated in the first place

[merry ore]

I’ve been busy in training at my new job all week to care about any kind of political anything, not that I care much for them, but I’ve only tangentially learned about what’s happened

[mighty fossil]

ok, i can somewhat work with this, just need to manually type out the related media or an image for the context along with it, although at most it'll make it difficult to track back to the original twitter post.

i'd still consider it a bit extreme as it's a common platform still. but this is very sudden

[ornate pelican]

I'd argue we're slow rolling this. r/wow subreddit and Discord banned the links yesterday.

We have people on r/ffxiv furious we haven't done it yet.

[zinc jay]

Are those people in this server?

[hollow owl]

that's nice but we aren't r/ffxiv

[short sail]

I understand that there are points to the ban that have yet to be fully decided, and that this was an early warning. But the announcement at least needs your methodology for why the moderation team is correct to have the ban this way, refusing to give that methodology to people curious about the decision comes across like you either don't want the backlash or haven't decided yet. And if you haven't decided on it than this needs much longer time to be considered

[ornate pelican]

Yes we are. This is the r/ffxiv Discord.

[mighty fossil]

we aren't exactly r/ffxiv if you ask me for how different the community is, but fine, i can still snip media at least
i'd want people to at least be encouraged to mention the name of the artist for art related stuff

[short sail]

There was no post to direct us to the r/ffxiv poll on this issue, people who are discord exclusive were entirely left out of the decision without warning
As it stands, the poll has ended before the announcement was made, so we never had a choice to begin with.

[mighty fossil]

... does this mean all the twitter things i've posted in the past is going to be deleted? if so, fuck

[ornate pelican]

No

[fossil moss]

This was casually name dropped, not related to Reddit btw. You can say it starts at r/ffxiv but it has since grown far beyond the scope of Reddit. I use this image to demonstrate how this server is more “mainstream” than Reddit’s esp when a lot of mainsub are fan arts and the like

[gleaming igloo]

Like... honestly, what do you want them to say? I understand feeling unrepresented but the feeling to the content of all this is very, uh.
"My "We're banning what's increasingly becoming a controversial political platform on this server explicitly forbidding controversy and politics" announcement is raising a lot of questions answered by my announcement"

[next oar]

I'm not from that subreddit btw. I didn't even know that petition was a thing

[ornate pelican]

The Subreddit has 158,500 more visitors daily than the Discord.

[fossil moss]

I’m on Reddit and I don’t check it everyday, and when I do it’s not on my feed either. And it’s just a discussion post and far from sort of vote

[next oar]

Compared to what metrics on discord?

[onyx shale]

Yes, but you don't know if the subreddit visitors are the same as the people who engage on this discord
Metrics are just metrics, you don't even know of they're the same people on both

[zinc jay]

The subreddit does not engage in the aggressively nuanced discussions that occur in #endgame-lounge or #1161031547634327572 which are contingent on twitter discussions and posts. its like, an entirely different flavor of content

[ornate pelican]

Weekly Visitors

[next oar]

How is it counted? people joining? people posting the message? people emoting to messages? or opening a channel at least once?
Unless you make actual comparison with similar metrics that words mean nothing

[hollow owl]

hence why I say that we are not the ffxiv reddit. sure we are an offshoot of it, but the community and discussions are totally different

[ornate pelican]

"A member who has clicked into a channel on the Discord"

[next oar]

Okay, how does that information reinforce your argument you are making

[fossil moss]

there’s a reason why there are so many different subreddit. Because of how mainsub is saturated with so many things that’s increasing hard to engage and filter. A discord server like this where we choose which channel we see and where to engage is why people use it more often. There is r/ffxivdiscussion various ffxiv related sub for pretty much every aspect of the game. This server is all of that within one server. So it’s natural people use discord more often than reddit

[ornate pelican]

Someone claimed the Discord is more "mainstream" than the subreddit which is very much not true.

[fossil moss]

It’s ok, you can just say it’s me, and it is true. I mean GOTY casually name drop yall. Has they ever mentioned Reddit? Nah. Is it a good measure? Maybe not. But has anyone ever name drop the maincord in this sort of irl public events where several other people from other gaming community are watching? Probably not

[next oar]

Subreddit isn't a superset of the discord server though, that's what they are trying to say. the pathway of participating discord is different from subreddit, of course it is more "mainstream". do you know how many people joined this server through "Discovery" feature of discord?

[onyx shale]

And no offense, but your assumption that people who engage on the subreddit are the people who engage on the discord is false.
They're 2 very different forms of social media. Hell, if you mostly lurk here discord, you'll never think that this is purely a subreddit discord
It just feels in very bad taste that people on the subreddit can dictate what happens on discord, while we who mainly use discord never get a say on our own server

[ornate pelican]

The award wasn't really for us, the Discord. It was the entire FFXIV community. It completely caught us and Discord off guard.

No one knew they were going to do that.

I didn't even find out until Kupo crashed

[zinc jay]

The number of people who come into this server thinking it is official, not realizing it is a subreddit discord at all is substantial.

[next oar]

At this point we are being carried away. the discussion was about the delivery of how twitter ban is handled

[merry ore]

We get at least 3 per week maybe, more if it’s a busy day

[fossil moss]

And it goes on to say why community matters in this game. But regardless the fact that it was done means this server is much more than the subreddit

[mighty fossil]

i use reddit for googling things like how long do i need to cook chicken filet thanks to google putting it up the top, i'd try not to use it to engage in a community with it. it shows up at the top

i'd still think twitter would be used for media related purposes as imgur would be for gifs and instagram just makes blocks for wanting to look into more unlike twitter that just lets me continue although a lot more censored, unfortunately, i made a twitter account just to dump media till nintendo cut it off.

[vivid raft]

just goes to say i think people have already said their piece looks like

[fossil moss]

Also my console homies rely on Twitter to share their gameplay by making a dummy Twitter account and upload their gameplay to it when they wanna watch vids

[gleaming igloo]

Okay?

This... the ban isn't restricting your actual access to Twitter.

[ornate pelican]

Bluesky can accomplish the same task.

So can Youtube

[onyx shale]

Bluesky doesn't have ps5 integration I believe

[untold sequoia]

Just in case you aren't aware, Sony cut the ability to upload directly to Twitter

[next oar]

Mod team so far didn't provide the reason why this discussion was held internally and didn't allow any question from the outside though. I'm 100000000000% sure this discussion will come back when the rules actually take effect (That's again why I am asking for threads, I know it's brought to the team but I just wanted to add)

[fossil moss]

No one said it does. But they are using it to share their own game play

[vivid raft]

it definitely will, just that there's nothing much to really add atm since the salient points were already made known

[fossil moss]

Oh ok TIL, didn’t know this

[plush star]

not part of the discord mod team, but my guess is there is little anyone could say to sway the decision

[meager sluice]

cutting in real quick about sony, you can use the ps app to download screenshots and videos

[onyx shale]

Even subreddit mods have no say huh

[next oar]

They could've answered a question just a little bit though. that will definitely reduce the reaction they are receiving. I don't know if its worth bringing back the same level of backlash later than to address it beforehand

[ornate pelican]

We discussed together but also separately. Subreddit mods will have their own announcement in time.

[fossil moss]

Who are “we”

[short sail]

At this point I think feedback is just to express that we hope decisions wont be made like this in the future, even if the moderation team is set on their ways for this particular one

[zinc jay]

this will result in people being driven away from this discord server to other places for resources, rather than making them use bluesky or go through the hastle of uploading images/videos elsewhere to share them.

And I'm not saying this in a doomsaying way, I know this will happen.

[wise musk]

Sony, Nintendo, and MS did this less than a year ago iirc. Several gacha titles also discontinued Twitter logins. Mihoyo announced it first for their games followed by others following suit

[fossil moss]

To bring it back to the topic, if you keep saying “we” then why are all of us here completely blindsided by the announcement? Clearly we here in this channel are not aware of the “we” who are involve in the decision and it being made on our behalf

[sacred zephyr]

To clarify: We in this case refers to the people who run and operate this specific community. The team running r/ffxiv have had their own discussion as well.

[surreal shuttle]

And to clarify that clarify, the subreddit team and this server’s team have spoken to each other about this as well

[next oar]

how come subreddit held a petition but this server didn't, if each team had a different discussion

[onyx shale]

Then my question is, why is the We on discord being influenced by the r/ffxiv decision in the first place? Yeah I know this started out as a subreddit discord, but over the years it has become its own separate thing

[zinc jay]

And so you cannot come to differing decisions given that again, there's different factors and circumstances involved when it comes to how people interact on discord versus a subreddit?

[vivid raft]

yes definitely would be hard to bring the same energy in, i'd just see how it'd go since there's nothing much regular users can do atm

if a case happens with strong backlash, it would likely result in people who do not like the decision (or how it was brought up) to stay away from the server, i know a lotta people love the server for what it is but also i hope it wouldn't have come to that extent

[fossil moss]

And what about us? Sure we can be said that it is Reddit mods, and discord mods. But again, my point which you guys have been completely ignored, is what about US the discord users who interact with the discord and each other regularly

[sacred zephyr]

They did not. The petition was opened by a community member and the reddit team decided to leave it up for feedback, but otherwise held their own internal discussions.

[zinc jay]

Personally I will probably use the server less when this comes to pass, not even out of spite just because I don't want to deal with the inconvenience of having to bypass the link filtering by uploading things elsewhere. it's just a meaningless workaround When other servers are out there in the sea that do not do this.

[next oar]

My biggest question is what's keeping them back from actually preventing the backlash. Is there really no other choice but to go "It is what it is"?

[fossil moss]

It’s always “we” the people who operate this server or “we” the people who operate the Reddit. And you convenient leaving out us. Why? The fact that you are actively doing so even during this discussion and refuse to address this is why we are having this discussion in the first place

[zinc jay]

I also don't think its fair to the queer people who do still use the platform and have less of a choice in terms of picking up their livelihoods and leaving to label them as muskrat supporters.

[next oar]

Sorry if my phrasing is bad or sound hostile btw, I'm not a native english speaker

[misty temple]

yeah... the "maybe stop being so reliant on a nz propaganda site" bit earlier was super uncalled for.

[short sail]

^this. It is clearly being pushed forward as an attempt to help the players on the discord with no actual care for if it was helping at all.

[fossil moss]

The fact that it was said by an admin really, really does not help and only make people question the mod team

[zinc jay]

This 100%. Making such sweeping decisions without polling the users on them, when a number of mods just are outright inactive in public channels and lack an understanding of the varying cultures/cliques of each channel and how they work should not be how you work. It is a terrible, authoritarian practice when it comes to such a large server.

And as others have said, if you are so sure we, the regular users who drive a lot of channels are the vocal minority in this, why were we not asked?

[onyx shale]

I mean, with eanae's statement like that, all I can see is that she's made up her mind and nothing we say can or will change a thing.
Tbh it doesn't feel any different from the shit show going on in the US. People in charge decide what they want to do and implement it without considering all the implications

[mighty fossil]

i didn't quite see this reply as im still occupied, that's be quite fucked up to say as i know with a certainty people outside of the US have their businesses on it even if they hate the platform now. as in, people using it for their livelihoods even if they hate it

[short sail]

What do the players on this server think about this decision? I would like to know honestly, but there hasnt been any effort made to gather that information, instead the decision was made for us and told it was for our benefit

[zinc jay]

That's another thing. The world is much bigger than the US. this server has a lot of JP and EU and OCE users who know fuckall about american politics and they do not affect them. Why are such sweeping affairs impacting them too?

[hollow owl]

are the admins really making a move that benefits the community if they suddenly make such a controlling move and stay stalwart on it?

[mighty fossil]

the JP community would most likely still be on 2chan or lodestone but they would probably know absolutely nothing going on with twitter such as myself

[gleaming igloo]

As a queer artist who did precisely Pick Up My Livelihood And Leave once things started getting particularly stupid over there, with no small amount of my own radar doing so as well (and even earlier), it's easier than you're probably thinking.

[zinc jay]

If you want to drive regulars away from this server by telling them they're a vocal minority in the server theyre in daily then by all means do so but you will kill a lot of the server in that way.

[hollow owl]

enane has made their point that they've made this decision and they are sticking to it, but does this decision make you better than muskrat because you're making it impossible to reach his site on your platform?

[ornate pelican]

If queer activists such as Erin Reed can pick up and leave I'm sure you can manage too.

[vivid raft]

thats a good point to bring up, i would certainly think it's something to be considered for next time or for further deliberation is all im sayin, its definitely not an "it is what it is", everyone deserves an input on decisions that affect the server

[zinc jay]

I am not talking about myself. Community does not work like this, sorry.

[onyx shale]

To your point. This discussion is 100% an "it is what it is" situation. Eanae has said multiple times that what we say now will have fuck all on the decision.

[short sail]

I think the very least the moderation team can do for this decision is explain why they felt it was better left in their hands than the communities

[merry ore]

To wit as well, some people have the announcement channel muted or closed off and won’t see anything about it, so they’ll just wonder what’s happened

[next oar]

like, I can give you all mod teams the easiest way to resolve this entire situation: Just quickly summarize what you guys have discussed so far and put it here

then you all can divert the whole conversation here to the actual details, and I can guarantee this will reduce significant amount of backlash

[meager sluice]

yall also don't ping everyone when making an important announcement. which this absolutely is.

[untold sequoia]

Discord doesn't allow the everyone ping for a server this large, it can actually crash people's clients

[ornate pelican]

As a policy we do not use the at everyone ping in this server.

[hollow owl]

i know that you won't change your position but this move isn't going to end well or age well at all. one of the beautiful things about this server is how we can all share things together and bond over them. limiting that ability to such an extent makes it seem that you want to push your own agenda on us.

it really does concern me that you aren't hesitating about this decision after how much the regulars users of this server are protesting. we love this server and it's our second home and this decision feels like you're burning it down because you don't like one person.

[vivid raft]

oh im talking about what im arguing, not what people are doing lol, people should definitely not sit down if they have something to say, and more communication would be of great help on the matter, its more of just a discussion finished thing than a whatever thing

[meager sluice]

so how are people supposed to know?

[mighty fossil]

varies, mostly depending on your audience and if they're aware of changes which they should if they're following, im not sure if bsky is open yet as i didn't bother with it as it was invite only and i did not bother to check still so i can't comment on how succesful the shift was but i still see twitter from em as that's how prevalent twitter is

[zinc jay]

Since we're in the buisness of going around in circles, I will again ask, if you are so sure that all of us regular users are the vocal minority in this decision why did you decide this for the server based on feedback given by people who very likely do not use the server at all? You keep saying there are like 600 active users on this discord, okay, how many of them chimed in on that discussion? Because most of the support for this decision I've seen voiced here come from users I've never seen before, or who I know are not active in the sections that this would impact the most.

[fossil moss]

I’m disappointed in the mod team with this decision. And even more concerning when they continuously decide to not answer the biggest question: why is it an internal decision that does not involve users, but very few mods and admins

[onyx shale]

Look to be blunt, implementing what you want without consulting the community gives the optics that you think you know what's best for the "people".

Sounds familiar to what's going on in the US?

It doesn't matter if it's for good intentions, it's how it looks. And right now it looks shit

[fossil moss]

I meant that emote as a sarcasm btw

[merry ore]

At least half of the people talking and chiming in aren’t from the US, even if they play on NA, I know Cotton lives in Australia and Es in Japan; they have just as valid voices

[zinc jay]

End of the day, all I've taken from this conversation and the stonewalling from staff and refusal to accept any criticism indicative that this is a "selfish" decision, one that you are imposing on the server without actually considering how users think in concern that they would not agree with you.

[ancient gale]

Ban Issued for citanon

@tall quest has been banned by eanae for the following reason:

Troll

Banned from Final Fantasy XIV

[next oar]

I don't really think that amount of hostility was necessary man

[sacred zephyr]

I'll give you an answer from my specific point of view. This does not reflect what others think, this is purely from me, Hiccup, the Australian dude.

This server has 258k members, and trying to obtain a single opinion that works for any kind of majority would be near impossible. This isn't how we, or nearly any other community for that matter, operate. The people who run the communities make the decisions in a manner that they believe makes most sense for what experience they want to provide for the people who decide to join. That isn't always going to be what every single user wants, but it's impossible to please everyone, and its a mistake to try.

The best you can do is try and find a path that aligns with your values and stick to it. That doesn't mean never changing your mind, but it does mean making some kind of attempt at consistency. Again, mistakes can be made and you're never going to find a perfect answer to every question, but I think it's a mistake to imagine any decision is done to specifically hurt or anger anyone involved.

In this specific case, there are alternatives to the platform involved. You are not beholden to twitter. You can still use it if you desire, we can't police what you do outside of here, but this decision is the result of a decision made by this moderation team that we believe makes most sense given the values we would like to imagine we uphold.

I know I personally do not want to support a platform that actively damages the lives of the people I care about. That's me. You are free to have your own opinion, but that is where I stand.

[fossil moss]

Discord poll is available yes? You can do this in pretty much all the servers. Why not at least try that, as many other subreddit also used. And thanks for your perspective Hiccup, it’s appreciated

[zinc jay]

I just looked in a furry artist's server to see what they were doing and they put up a poll about leaving twitter and respected what others gave as feedback. I don't see why a larger server which provides a "service" cant do the same.

[sacred zephyr]

Because we are not that furry artist's server.

[onyx shale]

I'd support the decision too, but what gets me is the way it's been implemented.

At the very least, ask people about it. The way eanae is going and doubling down on things (and her using the we are supporting a nazi social media comment) just gives out bad server dictatorship vibes all around

[next oar]

Could you read this again please? #discord-feedback message
And could you explain to us why this is not happening?

[zinc jay]

That isn't what I said. Please actually read what people are saying before hastily responding to a strawman statement.

[fossil moss]

This has been on many subreddit, it’s just an example of the one I saw and voted on

[ornate pelican]

To be clear those polls are all astroturfed to hell and back. We actually looked at comments posting history and only took into account people who post to r/ffxiv

[short sail]

The lack of a perfect solution does not justify making no effort at all. Asking a single players opinion would be better than nothing at all, which is what the team has decided to do

[zinc jay]

And not to the server? Again, you made a decision from feedback from users who do not use this server.

[fossil moss]

And how is that any better than you guys making decision on our behalf

[fossil moss]

sure it’s astroturf, but I vote didn’t I? Where is my vote, or my say, in your decision here? You again chose to ignore our question.

[sacred zephyr]

I'll reiterate again that most communities of a certain size do not operate as democracies because that doesn't actually work in most cases.

It can work for smaller communities absolutely

[zinc jay]

These are a lot of words to say "we just dont want to poll because we know better than you."

[ornate pelican]

This is not, and has never been, a democracy.

[sacred zephyr]

But once you reach a certain size it almost universally falls apart.

[surreal shuttle]

The admins decide what information is being made public and what isn’t. If Eanae and the admin team aren’t ready to reveal more information about the ban then it’s not our team’s place to do that for them. The ban is happening, the specifics are being worked out. That’s basically the TLDR of what has happened internally. As far as publicly facing channels go, the team will always present a unified front regardless of how we feel personally or how we responded to the suggestion of a Twitter ban when it was proposed internally.

[mighty fossil]

shower thought, can we ban(filter) twitter.com / x.com while allowing links such as fixup and fxtwitter

damn, the world should've filtered x.com/twitter back then to solve broke media on discord earlier

[fossil moss]

as long as it has the word Twitter in it

[next oar]

Can you give us the summary of "specifics" so far please?
If not, is there a reason why not to do this?

[ornate pelican]

We discussed that and decided all redirects will be banned as well.

[next oar]

You all are explaining what is happening but not why and how behind it.

[surreal shuttle]

Kupo will delete links to both Twitter directly and redirect links. It’ll just be deletion and will not warn/strike/ban anyone. Further questions like “what about screenshots?” Are still being talked about and we can’t give an answer on our decision there yet because we haven’t decided

If you want the why, #announcements says why

[zinc jay]

For a game with a strong focus on community support this is a bad way to engage with community feedback.

[sacred zephyr]

I would prefer that you don't put words into my mouth please. You can cool it on the hostility and still let your opinion be known. I am happy to engage in the discussion.

[merry ore]

I understand the average human can only have around 100 acquaintances or so, and any more you start to lose touch and/or delineate to lower management in the case of a business or company; that does apply here, but while I agree that the topic is about a cesspit of a website, I do feel our opinions could have any merit or weight with our regularity of talking and helping people out in the main channels

[ornate pelican]

The why is simply because the owner did a nazi salute behind the podium of the PoTUS twice and it's a tool being used to spread hateful propaganda.

[next oar]

That's not the why I'm talking about though. that's the why behind the decision to ban the twitter. I'm looking for why behind your inability to disclose the internal discussion.
Can you all please read what I am saying.

[fossil moss]

Sure we can’t vote, but apparently we also don’t have any say in your decisions and we are expected to take it without questions? This is a large server, as you made it clear, and large servers aren’t made of 200k+ mods who hang out with each other. This is not a friend’s discord server, mods operate the discord and we appreciate you guys for that. But that doesn’t mean we will not question your approach to certain decisions. The users are as important as the mods are. Especially when there are hundreds of thousands users more than there are mods

[sacred zephyr]

A question, do you believe this server would be better off if we ran every decision through a vote? And I do mean every single one.

[zinc jay]

Major, sweeping decisions like this? yes, absolutely.

[sacred zephyr]

Why is this considered a major decision?

[fossil moss]

Sure, esp when it comes to controversial topics and censor/ ban?

[onyx shale]

It seriously messes up the culture in certain channels here. For example, #endgame-lounge reposts Twitter pics/posts/vids/clips of interesting gameplay and strats

[short sail]

One of the largest social hubs in the entire world can no longer be directly connected to this server, its a massive block in the flow of information

[next oar]

That's a good question about the extreme direction on one side, but the same can be said for the opposite as well.
Why would you think it'd be better of it's fully controlled by mod team alone (Assuming you think that, judging by the phrasing of question)

[sacred zephyr]

There are other platforms with exactly the same information. In those few cases that somebody does not post there, the increasing pressure against Twitter will inevitably push them onto other platforms, ones that are friendlier for the user.

[hollow owl]

because whenever a new savage tier is released, proggers will submit clips of how they adjusted to a mechanic on twitter and endgame lounge uses that to build on and further develop on it

[onyx shale]

For Western users probably. But what about Asian users of Twitter? They don't have the same pressure or care about engaging with Western audiences. As we just to completely lose out on sharing things like JP strats?

[short sail]

The assumption that it will simply work itself out does not feel like a concrete justification, can you prove that everyone will move? can you prove it wont hurt anybody? We need hard justification, not "it will be fine"

[fossil moss]

people are here to talk at the end of the day. Least you can do is let people have a chance to have any say in it, even if it’s just Yes or No. this mostly align with this server’s value of “no politics”. But there is not a definition of what is considered “politics”. People using Twitter in the extend of ffxiv in this server is not politics. Sharing gameplay, strats and arts are not politics. And no one look at it and say ah they support Nazis. This decision made because you made it a political one. Not us. You guys decide to auto remove Twitter link, as the announcement, is because of its owner and his political stance.

[next oar]

This conversation is going on for almost 3 hours btw

[sacred zephyr]

You are not banned from using Twitter. The ban only applies to linking things here on this community.

[mighty fossil]

i think it's more accurate to say filtered, you know, it seems less menacing than banning

[hollow owl]

yet when I would like to share a clip of a mechanic being solved day one and the clip was shared on twitter, how can I share the link to the clip when it gets auto deleted?

[onyx shale]

This community uses Twitter posts. Sure I can engage on it by myself on twitter, but how then would I engage with the discord here? Am I'm meant to reupload the thing on my persona bluesky etc account just so I can relink it here?

[ornate pelican]

It’s ok. I got 15 levels in Diablo and played with my dog. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[merry ore]

With all due respect, that isn’t what we’re saying nor talking about

[sacred zephyr]

Regardless, I do think at this point that the conversation is going in circles and I really do need to try and eat something. Again, I appreciate that some people are upset, but this is the decision that fits best with what we as a team value. I'll leave the rest of the responses to the admins.

[zinc jay]

It is ignorant to act like twitter is still not one of the largest and most widely used internationally twitter platforms.

[onyx shale]

Like I get the twitter ban, but I'm feeling like the discussion among the mod team was just perfunctory and didn't cover the implications of the ban.

Maybe that's not the case that actually happened. But the continued radio silence from the mod team doesn't help this impression

[silent flower]

No one is acting like it’s not. But maybe but all this energy towards changing that fact

[zinc jay]

How often do you use this server? For FFXIV specifically. Not any of the off topic channels.

[next oar]

I don't know anything about diablo but I'm happy that your dog is happy

[fossil moss]

Af the risk of derailing the convo, ignorant answers like “using this energy to change that fact” is unhelpful. An average person can only do so much. And please don’t even start with irl things like go vote or something.

[mighty fossil]

eh, it'll be an inconvenience, but it should be fine as long as i can still screencap the post and share relevant information such as who made it. ...which is still being discussed

although, i'd like it if it was banned while still allowing redirects, it somewhat misses the point but it does make it more convenient for me to not see broken media and having to click on it.

[onyx shale]

Sure, let me vote on US affairs when I'm not even a us citizen.

[next oar]

Why you all non-active users of this server suddenly show up and start voting for ban with full disregard to the nuances being discussed whatsoever?
We want nuanced discussion and you all are not really helping man

[ornate pelican]

Your activity level on this server doesn’t give you special rights

I don’t care if you have 10 messages, 100,000 or a million

[next oar]

I REALLY hope you are aware that I'm talking about unusual connection between "people who are new" and "disregarding nuances"

[zinc jay]

that.... is not what people are saying at all. people who barely use this server chiming in on an issue that affects active users when it wouldnt affect them and being rude and dismissive about it is the problem, lol

[static inlet]

That's interesting

[onyx shale]

I'm curious. How does it affect users who don't engage with the server much.
Other than having to view a Twitter relink or the moral imperative

[silent flower]

It’s like how people complain about Aether being the defacto ‘raiding server’. Don’t just raid there. Encourage your friends. Encourage your community.

Same with this. Find alternative solutions as a community. “We’ve always done it this way” is just an excuse to be stagnant.

[gleaming igloo]

I mean I just came in to look at the world burn a bit but is "This server is apparently so inextricably linked to the website being run by an increasingly mask-off Nazi we might as well keep using it" really the hill y'all decided was the good one?

[merry ore]

No, it’s not, and that’s not what anyone is saying

[silent flower]

But it is. Because anytime I’ve mentioned moving to alternative solutions, I’m told I’m not active enough here to have an opinion and that it just can’t be done.

[next oar]

We answered that question about an hour and half ago.
#discord-feedback message

[mighty fossil]

i'd like it if people would stop assuming people who used nazis and stay on it while knowing or not that htey're automatically nazis, yes, i've got my solution planned, i'll check bsky later, i think, but I know for certainty there are people with livelihoods on twitter that use both it and other platforms to increase reach because they need it
not related to the issue, but i dont think that comment should be applied here either

[fossil moss]

You guys should read the whole convo before giving your own feedback. The convo is large about how the mod team make their decisions without allowing any input. And not “we are using for our agenda and allowing links from Twitter is supporting its owners and the Nazis”

[zinc jay]

You are a stranger to the dynamics of the server, and how people interact and what they use to do so.

all of the people talking against it are regulars. they know how people talk, how they interact, why it isnt easy to simply get up and move when the ffxiv community is pretty firmly grounded on twitter, especially when it comes to information pertaining to prog being shared.

[onyx shale]

I mean, according to some of the comments made by mods here, their assumption is that everyone will migrate to bluesky because it's so easy, damn how viable it is irl

[silent flower]

You are arguing that you can separate the art from the artist. You cannot. They are linked. You are directing traffic to X by posting links. That gets traffic. That gets ad revenue. That supports the owner.

[short sail]

Whether you support the ultimate decision or not, the issue people have is the clear apathy the moderators have towards anyone on this server while claiming it is for their benefit.

[misty temple]

your views and needs should not dictate what is right for the rest of us.
if only the mod team thought about this

[hollow owl]

look, the reason why this decision is making the regulars protest is because this decision is a massive power play by the administration without any real warning on the server besides "we're doing this whether you like it or not". it feels like this was made because you're more overprotective of us than what we would like. decisions like this need to be known ahead of time and let it age with the userbase over time not suddenly in one weekend

i don't like that the mods decided this on their own and i really don't like how this level of discussion between users and administration isn't making the administration hesitate on this choice and reconsider how to apply it.

[zinc jay]

Active, frequent users will be more quick to move to other servers like the balance or smaller cliques where these restrictions do not apply. This isn't doomsaying. This will happen. People will not care for the hastle of uploading things to circumvent the filter. They'll just leave.

[misty temple]

like, previous topics i've seen blacklisted from the server i've not really had an opinion about because they're not directly related to ffxiv, but twitter is STILL such a massive platform for players of this game

[merry ore]

I’m hanging my hat in for now, I have work in a few hours

[next oar]

Also PLEASE for the love of god, if you are supporting the filter it's fine, that's not what we are trying to discuss ever. but if you are going to add something to conversation PLEASE have a nuanced take that addresses all points most of us made earlier

We are discussing the disconnect of decision making in between mod team and user bases, and we are arguing in hopes of getting a glimpse of internal discussion about how they are going to address the use case difference

[fossil moss]

You guys who just came in about the Twitter announcement thing clearly did not read the convo. If is not about we agree with the decision or not. We are actively asking the mods why they are making such decision without allowing the community any input whatsoever. Again, people posting catgirl, fanart, raiding strats and videos does not mean they are Nazi supporters as many coming in here making that statement implied

[upper raven]

That's simply not true, several people are saying it should not be banned because it is heavily used in certain channels

[zinc jay]

Yeah, like that one game (cant even say more specifically bc of the filter) has much less relevance to ffxiv players than twitter ever has. to say this is not a "sweeping decision" with little user input is ridiculous.

[fossil moss]

And yes that is true, it is used to demonstrate that people disagree with the decision, hence, it is why input and some feedback should be allowed instead of been made for people’s behalf. Be it raiding, or else. Many of the strats are shared on Twitter. Esp the Chinese, Korean, and even JP ones. And largely many of them don’t know or care about whatever happens in the U.S. and it’s owner and his platform

[short sail]

The community is mixed, as should be expected, but both sides can still argue an issue exists with the decision making process while disagreeing on if the decision is right

[next oar]

Good point, could you add effort to resolve the situation so we can have more meaningful discussion please? I'm sure your effort will be valuable

[fossil moss]

And how is this relevant to the context that is used in this server. Which is sharing ffxiv related stuff

[onyx shale]

Is that your personal, western centric view or do you have evidence behind it.

[silent flower]

Because you are driving traffic to the platform that funds him

[zinc jay]

at this point with all the number of times its been stated that this has been already decided for the users it feels like the mods are just waiting for the picketers to pack up and go home as if that isn't an apathetic stance.

[next oar]

I just want to make sure please don't go too deep into the point of US view or whatever
That feels like a slippery slope and require extra caution

[fossil moss]

“Them” prefer to the aforementioned ffxiv players who share strat from other regions on Twitter

[short sail]

Once again, is this is a decision that should be made by the moderators for the global playerbase on this discord? I would argue that it is not. Whether you believe it is a global issue is your choice, but it should be reconsidered whether this is a choice that should be made for people on this platform without their input

[upper raven]

Mod team has been pretty clear, you can voice frustration but the decision is made. They don't really need community permission to decide against platforming a site owned by a problematic person. Will push people away absolutely, but that's the decision they're making.

[ornate pelican]

As the US team is heading bed soon I’ve cranked the time between messages here till morning. This discussion has ran its course and is getting out of hand.

[fossil moss]

People really should stop with the “ you should read better” or you should read what you said. Because I literally said in the context that are mostly used in the server, which is sharing ffxiv related stuff from other regions that are not the US

[next oar]

Can you make a thread for discussion before you head to bed? this will persist no doubt

Also, holy batman 6 hours in between messages?????????????????

[ornate pelican]

I’d rather discussion stay in this channel when it picks up in the morning undoubtably. Threads are awful and hard to find.

I will lower the time back to 1 minute when the majority of the mod team is back awake.

[onyx shale]

6 hours between messages huh. Just my feedback, but that is 100% giving the perception that the mod team has 0 fucks to give about considering feedback.

Screw people from timezones that aren't US centric huh

[ornate pelican]

I’ve already told you we’re not taking feedback.

The slowmode is only till morning. Most of our mod team is about to go to bed and you were already all getting hostile with each other.

We have a much smaller overnight crew.

[jagged plaza]

Whys it the feedback channel if you aren't taking feedback? Frankly muting the feedback channel seems unnecessary

[gusty peak]

my feedback is that you should disable reactions in here because people are just using them to make snide remarks at the posts of others without contributing anything of value to the discussion, and given how many people pointed out they felt like they were not being taken seriously or even outright attacked, I think that such a measure will help them feel more comfortable participating in the discussion

[ornate pelican]

I can definitely do this.

[wary frigate]

I think there’s many things that can be taken from this argument on both sides so once this comes back hopefully Everyone is more calmed down but imo I think this
decision could’ve been handled better the sudden jump on it at
least in the eyes of the community you gotta look at it
from the others perspective this is the type of stuff that gets the rile out of “that” side which I can’t mention per rules this all could’ve been mitigated with at least some kind of poll even how insignificant it is striking down on others on what they think isn’t a positive to do and makes people angrier which is exactly is what been done on bird app I’m bad at words but I hope you get got the gist of it

[short sail]

Well, since the decision wont be budged on, I might as well post some slightly difference feedback. I think the moderation team as a whole should reconsider how they approach creating a safe space for the community. A community is by necessity very different from place to place, we are all unique people after all. No one person or group of people is smart enough to create the perfect space for those people. While the people might not be able to create a perfect space for themselves either, I think it should be considered more deeply how a person can make decisions for themselves.
The moderation team has shown that they believe they know what is best for the people of this server, which I don't think is a healthy approach at all to creating a comfortable place. The handling of this situation is the strongest example recently. And when approached with feedback, the response has been a resounding "We do not care, we know what is best". Bluntly, if the words of the community are worthless to your ears, I don't know what the point of building a community is at all.
Maybe the community will make the wrong decision sometimes, but perhaps that is better than one person do it for them instead.

[jagged mirage]

[zinc jay]

Are you serious? You cannot tout this server as a major hub of FFXIV, a game which prides itself on its community, by stifling discussion, disabling reactions, and making this decision for users like a parent taking away a child’s computer because “they know what’s good for them.’ It’s terrible practice, I don’t care if you see the server as a “dictatorship” or democracy or not. But clapping back against active users who will be most impacted by such a decision and listening to people who agree with you but barely engage in the server otherwise is just not fair. Why have a feedback channel if you refuse to take feedback on major, sweeping changes which impact the community and how people share information? This is not some small community server where the mods are the only users and would be the only ones impacted by this, which is ridiculous on its own as I know a lot of the mods do only behind the scenes work and do not engage publicly with other users, so therefore this wouldnt affect them anyways and they lack the context/understanding of why it would affect users so much.

1. This decision makes it more difficult to share strats and clips for raids, makes it harder to share information. People won’t host clips elsewhere to upload them here, they’ll just move to the balance where those links are enabled.
2. Banning twitter is much more of a moral decision than anything else - the world still uses twitter over bluesky or other sources of media. There’s a substantial number of OCE, JP, and EU players who only use twitter. This unduly affects them, especially if they are ignorant about american politics (which this is very much a matter of). Not to mention that this slowmode also unfairly impacts OCE users and prevents them from giving any sort of feedback on this (though that doesn’t matter. right.)
3. This just makes the mod team look outright apathetic. I think a lot of people here would be more okay with the ban if people were allowed to vote in a poll and that would decide the fate of twitter on the discord. But as others have said, a lot of us don’t use reddit. We didn’t chime into that conversation. They dont speak for us, nor do we for them. Discord and Reddit are vastly different spaces in which different subjects are discussed. To act as if a twitter ban would impact the subreddit, a place which is mostly art, screenshots etc being shared rather than informational raid stuff etc in the same way is a narrow take on social media and the purpose twitter has in the ffxiv community.
4. The community is still, objectively, twitter-centric. Implying that these people are all here just because they support the muskrat is wrong. And if your argument to this is “just get up and leave,” it is not easy to simply transplant a community, an ecosystem, a support network to an altogether different platform.
   Ultimately, this has made me lose faith in the mod team, if just because they don’t seem to trust the users to decide the thing that they want to happen for themselves. It is disrespectful, and goes against any sort of basic rules about clear communication or community building. Hand waiving the most consistent, regular users of the server as being a vocal minority as well, is just silly. A lot of us are helpfuls, we put a lot of energy into helping new players with questions and clearing up misconceptions. This just shows, to me, that regular users are not appreciated as contributors to growing a community, and a lot of people will most likely go elsewhere. Which is what I am going to do.

[long ridge]

I have feedback concerning the way the opinions and feedback of regular users of the discord are being dismissed as being worth the same as someone who has contributed nothing. #discord-feedback message

A community is defined by the contributions of individual members. The sole reason why so many people choose to call this place home, rather than some other discord server, is because of the hard work of individual members who thanklessly work to make this space great. Who work to make it welcoming, ensure information provided is accurate, and that every new member is cared for properly.

A community without passionate, dedicated, quality contributors, is not a community. It is a shitshow. Havent we collectively seen what happens in communities without a quality userbase time and time again? How many subreddits and servers are essentially useless to people seeking out information, fellowship, and experiences? Do we really want this space to end up the same way?

The regulars here who have dissented, have sent thousands, tens of thousands of messages or more contributing quality information, quality interactions, and quality experiences.

These regulars ARE the community here. We owe the success of this space to the contributions of everyone, but especially those keenly invested in the success of this space. The very fact that the regulars are passionately advocating this issue is because they care and want the server to succeed. Please consider your responses to dissent more carefully and please consider the real value each and every one of us brings. Consider how much we have to lose by having these people take their help elsewhere.

[orchid briar]

I agree with the messages sent above here. I don’t care much for the Twitter link ban, it’s fine. But the dismissive reaction to regulars because they disagree with the mod team has been a bit unsettling and disappointing to witness.

You may not agree with their concerns or think they’re silly outright. But regulars are a part of this community, they contribute tons to the ecosystem that requires a server to stay as active as it is and to just throw out their concerns as if they mean nothing is a bit… 🫤 this message is a lot shorter compared to what others have sent here but it’s my only criticism I have, lol.

[fading plank]

I'm kind of late to this and tried to read/skim as much as possible, but I have a question and would love if somebody could answer for me. I'm generally flexible in my opinions and viewpoints, so if someone can convince me (privately or otherwise, since there's slowmode now...), I'll edit this.

From my understanding, the ban/filter is in place because M. Ratticus is very bad, and the website is its income/platform/influence, correct?
So by filtering it, you aim to discourage using it, thereby showing you are against it (kind of like, "you did a bad! no website sharing for you!"), is that right?

So I'm wondering... is that intent actually happening? Let's say I want to share something I saw on M. Rattusky's website. The filter did nothing to me, I've already engaged with it. Now, I can't post the link directly, so I take a screenshot. If this is art, I've just erased the artists' intent of posting it (exposure) by not letting people click the link to see their profile and other works.
If I instead note their username (something which many people will not do!), I have to somehow say that the username will presumably only work on M. El Ratto's website only, without encouraging people to actually go there, because that'd defeat the point of the filter.

So far, it seems like artists are just being thrown under the bus. Well, no matter I guess, it's their fault for not migrating to a much younger platform where their follower count will immediately plummet because not all of your followers from M. Rigatto's website will start using Bluesky for you. Right?
This'd be different if that thing's website was shut down entirely, forcing everyone to move with their artists, but it is not.

This argument works for pretty much everything that is posted on the website for exposure of some form, which is... almost all of it. I guess the solution is to just not share it at all, because you either a) increase traffic to the hellsite by doing so, or b) decredit the person posting it. Which still decreases exposure for artists. This is a net loss no matter what you do.

My question is as follows: What does this moral stance -> ruling accomplish? What good comes from it? It's a statement you're making, absolutely, and I agree with the statement earnestly, but what positive change actually results from it? You already know the negatives - enough people have pointed them out - but you seem adamant to go through with this anyway, so there must be a good reason that outweighs those consequences. I'd like to hear it.

By trying to make M. Rat (derogatory) try to lose a miniscule amount of its bottom line (if anything!), you're hurting people who wish they had a bottom line at all, especially since artists would probably love the exposure that comes from being posted in a Discord as large as this.
Once again, the idea to not want to increase traffic to M. Rattington's website is well and good, but have you weighed the consequences? Have you considered that a moral highground - no matter how high - is arbitrary compared to how you're hurting the very people you're supposed to do this for?
I'm sure a handful of people here are artists that have migrated 'successfully' to Bluesky, but how many are actually making money off of it (that matters to their livelihood), and have either retained or gained income by moving? How many still have their old website's profile active? Would they deactivate it for the sake of standing on a slight moral hill? I'd wager not many fulfil these criteria. Moving to a new platform when the one you came from is absolutely massive, is not easy, and I don't want artists to be discredited just because they could "try doing that".

I'm also immensely disappointed that the discussion went the way it did, but if the mod team hasn't understood that from the myriad of other posts made before the implementation of a 6 hour slowmode for the sake of stifling discussion, then my input certainly won't make it any clearer.

[untold sequoia]

Hi there, I just want to thank everyone who took the time and effort to offer their feedback and discuss it in here, we've made a Google form over in #announcements message that we would appreciate if everyone that still wants to offer feedback could use. Even if you already offered feedback in this channel, we would welcome it if you also submitted feedback on the form as well.

[cyan salmon]

So if y'all are banning Twitter, you must be banning TikTok too, right? 'Cause that's also owned by a fascist dictator

[modern jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/troy-community-room-fire-pizza-gif-5612111

[long ridge]

i just wanted to express that this is a very well-thought out and insightful comment and I appreciate the time you put into writing it. Very compelling points

[onyx shale]

How genuine is the mod team in asking for feedback right now. Because, to me, there's no point in putting in feedback if the mod team has no intention of engaging with it.

Over the past few hours, eanae (AKA the server owner) has repeatedly stated that they have no intention in listening to any feedback regarding their decision as it is final

Thanks for lifting slow mode btw, was stuck with another 3h time out

[untold sequoia]

We're currently discussing the feedback we've received so far and discussing possible ways to help mitigate issues, for example how we want to handle the sharing of art thats only on Twitter

[fading plank]

I'd react but can't, so thank you
I hope somebody can answer these questions in a satisfactory manner...

[untold sequoia]

Also I'm going to be putting the slowmode back up to 15 minutes as I just removed it temporarily because some people still had the old 6 hour wait, if there are any issues that people have no relating to Twitter and need to bring them up, please use #discord-modmail

[ancient gale]

Success!

Slowmode Updated to 900, Kupo!

[sacred zephyr]

Slowmode try not to be broken for 30 seconds challenge impossible.

[plucky niche]

Wanted to express my feedback. I agree with above points that while the morals behind the decision are unarguably good, the decision has been made in too much haste with too much naievety as to the scope. The moderation team have shown, repeatedly, that at best they are offering one a chance to give feedback, while at the same time flagrantly saying it will be ignored. I genuinely don't see the point in this, and am comfused as to how this makes sense to them as an action. At worst, i'm even more alarmed by certain actors in the moderation team getting dangerously close to implying that any detractors are 'too reliant on a nazi propaganda site' or whatever it was. While, as said, the morals behind the decision are obviously unarguable, but equating the (very reasonable imho) opposition to this integration TO the problem you wish to solve is beyond the pale and I'm stunned that that is the hymn sheet a server of this magnitude is choosing to use. As said above, the team's response of 'just use somewhere else' only serves to highlight the lacking experience that went into this choice and the reason that feedback should've been paid attention to. At this point the amount of uncharacteristically bullheaded stonewalling makes me wonder if the moderation team is under some sort of legal obligation but if they are they obviously wouldn't be able to say.

In short, I really, genuinely don't know why you've said 'you can offer feedback' or given a feedback form when the loud, clear, and broadly literal response in here has been 'we don't care at all' and to stifle discussion. These are two incredibly different actions. One does not account for the other. I'd personally advise picking one and sticking with it, though ideally I'd advise actually listening to a wider perspective of users that frankly seem to be more 'worldly' in this matter than your team alone. I apologise for any perceived disrespect but I cannot find ways to dress most of this up.

[indigo girder]

the one thing i'm curious about is that there seemed to be concerns about astroturfing on the reddit for votes, yet you aren't doing the same here?

the ad hoc addition of a private feedback form when many said it was a done deal, we're not making any changes or listening to any of you inspires very little trust.

*this is from my dead partnered server. *
the data is far more granular, as a partnered server. you may not be able to see individual users but this isn't necessary to understand or parse this data.

the loudest voices appear to be your most active users which have been dismissed as a vocal minority.

if your goal is 'i have the ability and can assist in killing twitter's activity and get the xiv community off of twitter' i understand that desire - but discord is a community.
and while here is attached to the subreddit, we all understand that. but most users of this discord don't link to or use reddit much. if at all, particularly in comparison to twitter.

and most importantly, this is particularly hurtful towards many users to be spoken to as if you're doing them a favour, as if they don't understand or have a voice of their own on this matter. if anything the executive decisions and parentified dismissal from the mods at large has been the most hurtful thing here.

particularly in dismissing other queer voices - 'well xyz did it - so can you', and even outside of that 'you're not banned from using twitter, so what's the big deal?'

[turbid kayak]

i support banning twitter, platform has been getting worse and worse. especially now with the recent controversy against e.m.
if there is one voice who is against the ban, then there is one me that is for the ban.
now that EU is awake.

[vague mist]

Rip to all fanart and support for artists then. Most of the art posted on art channel comes from Twitter and is often the main platform you can support these artists on

[versed mauve]

nobody is arguing about the morality of it but imo basing a ban off a purely moral argument without directly providing a decent alternative would lead to disaster and only works for like luxury things such as starbucks. and with the sheer amount of (ffxiv-related) info and news stored on twitter's site specifically--that does not get uploaded anywhere else--i would not consider it a luxury thing that people can simply ditch. and "post/look it up on bluesky instead" doesnt work unless you're asking me to take someone else's content and upload it to my own bluesky account. you can encourage and hope people start uploading these things somewhere else but until then i see this as cutting off a major source of info

[reef forge]

"Telling people to use another social media platform, I think is not a good mindset. Like it or not Twitter has existed long before the clown that run that circus now, it was a source of news for many, and it still is. In the scope of ffxiv, which everyone already covered, it is far from being used for anything even remotely close to be considered political. This is a non politics server, sure, filter his name, but that should be the extend of it. Maybe you can remove political related posts if they are ever posted, but I doubt that’s common enough to be an issue. This blanket ban feels like it’s not a good attempt at moderating and rely on kupo to ban literally every single Twitter link regardless of its contents.

Personally, and I only speak for myself, I have many social media app, downloading and using bluesky on top of that, is very mentally taxing and no one should do this or feels like they have to. Twitter has a huge user base, this facilitate sharing and this aspect should not be discounted when consider the decision to censor Twitter links. The announcement that was made makes this out to be a decision base solely on its owner and his political stance alone while ignoring us who does not treat it as such.

So I want to ask those that make this decision, who is making this political? The users who are using it to share ffxiv contents, or the people who want to ban it because of its owner’s actions that has nothing to do with ffxiv and far beyond the scopes of what’s even relevant to the server?"

-Feedback by @fossil moss

[jagged plaza]

I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. I'm leaving this server but hope you guys somehow find a resolution. A cooldown for 6 hours ain't it btw

[sacred zephyr]

Should be at 15 minutes right now.

But I believe it bugged for some folks.

[onyx shale]

It isn't bugged. It's exactly how discord works. Slow mode timeout cannot be retrospectively reduced, unless you fully disable slow mode and let whoever got timed out type (like what meara did earlier)

I guess slow mode never reset for the people who didn't type in here during meara's window

[fossil moss]

I been thinking on this some more. The Reddit post that was linked as proof that a discussion took place has major issues:

1. it took place openly for all users to comment on on reddit. Now if this is Reddit and you are Reddit mods then yes this would work for a discussion. But neither of this is true. This is not Reddit, and as per the mod team, Reddit and discord has different mod teams since they are different platforms. So, if a discussion took place by Reddit mods on their own platform that they moderate, where is this equivalent to this platform aka discord, where you operate and moderating? And no, many of us who already express that whatever you discuss internally does not represent us at all, if this channel and several people’s feedbacks are any indicators.

2. As the mod and admin mentioned, dismissively so, without any source to their claim, that “Reddit polls are all astroturfing”, then why are you linking the Reddit post and using it to determined your decision on an entirely different platform?. If the mod team use said “astroturfing post” as an indicator for how people would react on discord, what does this say about your decision that is based on these post? The mod team failed to let us have any input whatsoever. At least on Reddit, you can openly join in the thread.

3. The Reddit post that was linked by the mod team also was not a vote, it is merely a discussion. And I do not know who, or if, they even read through all of what were said. However, the closest thing to a “vote” (which again is astroturfing, per the mod team’s words), is about 15.5k upvotes. Assuming every upvotes are unique, and every upvotes are in support of the censor, that is less than 10% of the people in this server. It is not pinned, as the time of typing this I verified this myself. The post completely disappeared. No effort was made by either mod team to even make their users see it. A subreddit with 1.2 million users with 15.5 thousands upvote. But at least Reddit mods did allow their users that open discussion and not forced it upon us.

[short sail]

I appreciate that the mod team has at least reconsidered their stance on community feedback enough to request people’s opinions through direct submission. That said the nature in which it is submitted is not at all conducive to any sort of clarity towards this situation. Once the form has run its course, please release the results of how many people supported or opposed the ban. As it stands, a privatized feedback form is nothing more than patting people on the head and telling them they are heard. For all we know you don’t need to read or consider a single one. The moderation team has shown an apathy, and in the case of Eanae, an antagonism towards the opinions of this servers members. We rightfully have no reason to trust that any of our feedback will be considered. If you want to make decisions for the people of this server, go ahead I suppose. At very least give use a reasonable explanation for your methodology as to why the user base cannot be trusted with this decision.

[pallid owl]

I already made my points last night. But after sleeping on it, I have to say that at this point, the rather dismissive attitude towards us (yes, I know the form is there) and the implication that we, the users, are the problem and somehow have an affiliation with the ideology of the man behind the platform simply for viewing it for unrelated means, is more of an issue to me than the ban itself at this point, as well as outright insulting and not at all the response I would expect from anyone who has taken the time to think things through.

It was an incredibly rash decision and many of the team doubled down on it without stopping to show concern or due diligence. This form simply feels like damage control. If you actually want our trust, earn it.

[onyx shale]

My thoughts on the feedback form can be summed up as this screenshot. If the server owner isn't interested at all, what's the point. It's not like the mods can do anything without her go ahead

[indigo girder]

as you've said this won't affect twitters bottom line, but you do like to obfuscate and deny.
the way you presented your metrics seem like obfuscation:

• 'Actually daily actives is around 200, weekly around 600' 'The subreddit has 158,500 more visits daily than the discord'
  visits vs actives? really? you know how mobile reddit counts visits, you're a dev. this has been a reddit bandwagon for the past 3 or so days. r/ffxiv's top post of the last 365 days, not pinned - kind of odd.

what are your join metrics? how many come here from the subreddit versus elsewhere?

• 'I don’t care if you have 10 messages, 100,000 or a million.'
  didn't you go through users to make sure they weren't astroturfing on reddit? here's different?

would be good to see user demographics when making sweeping americocentric changes.

it feels like you’re using your **position as owner to assert unilateral control, knowing it can’t be transferred now that the partner program is gone. **

• "We're not taking feedback"
  mods are left to handle all this, hiding their thoughts, 6h slow mode.
  someone scrambles for a totally private feedback form no one cares if you read.

then frankly you making dismissive comments to another queer user is just gross.

• 'If queer activists such as Erin Reed can pick up and leave I’m sure you can manage too'
• 'But we can choose to support our LGBT and marginalised communities by removing traffic from a tool weaponised against them.'
  are you a walking ball of contradictions and attacks? who decides what’s best for queer people? you?

you don't need to disagree because you can just be antagonistic and dismiss, as so many have seen you as.

over the past two years you've played for a month or two. do you know why people still use twitter? there are 500 bsky posts here.

i know you're unable to leave or transfer ownership, even if you wanted to. **making executive decisions while acting as though all mods are on board - when they can’t go against you, nor can you leave. **

• it’s kinda ceo behaviour, honestly.

maybe consider that users might actually know better this time and that this isn’t just a 'loud minority'

[gilded pecan]

People trying to fight the ban instead of trying to compromise, eg; allowing screenshots from artists who are, unfortunately, in the position they are in now as Bluesky slowly grows is almost cute. Make your cases, suggest alternatives, or I wish you the utmost of luck starting your very own, superbly inclusive FFXIV community.

[merry ore]

We aren’t fighting the ban, it’s the communicative aspect that bothers us more

[plucky niche]

Nobody, at any point, has said the ban was wrong. The issue is it is implemented very poorly. Calling them 'cute' and telling them to leave if they don't like it is not helpful to any discussion.

[pallid owl]

This is always the problem with 14 players lol. Have a problem with some aspect of 14? Go play WoW dipshit. Don't like a moderation decision? Just leave lol

Can ONE fucking person argue in good faith instead of trying to strawman and condescend? BE NORMAL

[untold sequoia]

Once again, please remember to remain respectful when giving feedback, all of you

[fading plank]

The alternative to the ban is not banning it, actually.
I have yet to be told what the positive of the ban is supposed to be, beyond virtue signaling that hurts artists and complicates matters for the Discord. Which says a lot given that a decision that was made by a vast minority of the server should really have easy to understand positives.
And even if there are positives that outweigh these negatives, the way in which this was handled is cruel and unprofessional.
The community was not asked. Feedback was dismissed. Those opposing the decision were all but called to be sympathising with the type of person the website's owner is.
All that to push something that will actively harm this community in favour of... what? Metaphorically farting against musketeer's leg? Is that worth it? I don't think so...

[autumn fjord]

it's just unreasonable to expect stuff like video guides made by jp raid content creators and art by non-english speaking artists to be shared here by manually downloading videos or unauthorised reuploading to other social media so that it can be linked here. and the way certain staff members have been talking to members rightfully expressing their feedback in a community they belong to has been incredibly rude and frankly, upsetting.

[gusty peak]

why is it unreasonable?

[sage rune]

Many channels like art,memes etc,. use X links and content. plus xitter is more popular internationally so like many said it feels really americocentric. As of now bluesky isn't ideal due to being less used by artists outside burger nation and companies still prefer twitter, though still your call but i suggest to leave the talking to the moderation.

[merry ore]

As a side note, I do appreciate your own responsiveness, additional candor, and reasonability in being somewhat forthright to our response to the announcement

[pallid owl]

I concur, it's a shame the same can't be said of others. I don't need to name names.

[indigo girder]

once a staff member dismisses and derides a queer person saying "Your opinion is noted but the ban is happening. If you’re that reliant on a Nazi propaganda platform perhaps you should find an alternative.".

all while seemingly not taking anyone seriously, telling people how you got 15 levels in diablo!! having time on the side to be even more dismissive anything anyone else says, making sure not to take the time of day.

do you seriously believe what you said there? i guess, though, that you know better and they need to find an alternative.

when you're promoting how you are "But we can choose to support our LGBT and marginalized communities by removing traffic from a tool weaponized against them." - at this point this place is being used as a tool to weaponise against them. you may not be able to leave, but you can pick and choose your words and actions.

but calling a queer person reliant on nazi propaganda while saying you're supporting and protecting marginalised communities? is it you who knows what's best for any of them?

when your words and actions don't line up to say it inspires distrust is an understatement.

[rich elm]

This and other channels (like game content feed AND translations and live letters) in this discord have frequently used it for stuff like fashion report and linking to official FFXIV stuff that otherwise isn’t on lodestone (like the eng translated ffxiv mobile interview with yoshi p) so if anything its even more prevalent

[ornate pelican]

Fashion Report does not use Twitter. You can follow the source of the information here: https://discord.kaiyoko.org/

[vague mist]

Also it's so ironic to tell people to use Bluesky while even the official FFXIV profile doesn't have an account there

[rich elm]

Right but up until kaiyoko handed the reins over around January 14th, the bot would link to twitter posts every so often anyway in #game-content-feeds . After the passing though, it links primarily to reddit now though. Regardless, FFXIVs official account primarily operates on twitter as Dorsz stated so being told to just hop to Bluesky otherwise I’m “reliant on a nazi propaganda platform” isn’t exactly helpful or appropriate when making a sudden announcement like this. I’d prefer if I was just told straight to just refer to lodestone from now on and that’s that.

[indigo girder]

also bizzare how many people are recommending that people go to bluesky as if it's the safe app or something.
its series a was 15m from Blockchain Capital.

one of whose founders is bart stephens who owned oncology.com which he sold to pfizer, along with managing or being a partner at a bunch of other vc firms.

now bluesky is going for a 700m valuation with bain capital ventures whose massive investment in ai technologies just make bluesky look like the most trustworthy company out there.

[gilded pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/antm-miss-j-jay-alexander-miss-jay-wtf-gif-5883733

[pallid owl]

Would you like to address the relevant parts of the argument, namely that posting a twitter link is in no way an indication of support for Nazi ideals, that in general using Twitter does not, in fact, mean that you need to reconsider your political ideologies, and that you have in fact asked absolutely nobody relevant here for their take before making this decision? Or are you going to continue stonewalling most of us while cherry-picking only feedback that you can comfortably refute to reply to?

You said yesterday that you personally avoid Walmart and Chick-Fil-A where possible. The operative word here is personally. Have you stopped to consider that maybe preventing two hundred and fifty thousand people from posting content that isn't even TANGENTIALLY related to anything offensive is a bad idea? Those who feel it is a good idea to completely disassociate from Twitter can do so, ON THEIR OWN. I see absolutely no reason why this decision should be enforced upon the people who disagree with it, simply because it fits your agenda.

You are not our parents. You are not someone we chose to represent us. You are acting like you hold all the cards (because you do), and knowing that, acting in bad faith. At least have the dignity to respond to something that actually matters.

[indigo girder]

unfortunately they're unable to leave, they're stuck with this role.

it's similar to the reddit, it's their baby and they've ran it for quite a long time, it's often hard to find a successor and i mean that legitimately. however when you don't play the game for two years, and made decisions based upon you beliefs for a community in which you no longer understand - it's difficult.

but i wouldn't hold your breath, the problem is as they said - this isn't a democracy. we don't choose who represents us and unfortunately she doesn't really get a choice to represent us or not. she literally cannot leave the server or transfer ownership, it's basically impossible with discord how it is now, unfortunately.

the thing is at this point they know some/many things but the problem at large is she and we don't get a choice - and we particularly don't get one when someone says "the decision is made, we are not taking feedback".

i agree with you regarding the 'not our parents' thing. it feels controlling and contrived, littered with justifications that don't make sense. it's very hurtful at best to all of us, along with the dismissal and lack of engagement. to give a straight announcement and then not engage in good faith like many have tried to act towards them.

i do wonder if they forget many people here are their age and have lives. even if they're younger, they can take care of themselves. and even if not, you cannot take care of everyone. and i'm sure they're aware of some of the dark shit that happens in this server (this is no shade, it's the nature of discord). it's still incredibly hurtful to call anyone a participant of a nazi propaganda machine, regardless of their views.

[fading plank]

Sorry I'm not sure I fully understand, why does them not being able to transfer server ownership result in them saying out of pocket things and making choices that negatively affect the server, unless it was Discord itself enforcing this (in which case that'd be easily stated)?
What stops them from leaving such decision in the hands of the actual (preferably active) part of the server? Why do they have to approve, or interact at all, with the mod team's decisions, if they don't want to? And why become a hurdle at the last step? For fun?
I'm not sure what the situation is that is implied here, but you've spoken up about it more than once now and if the head of the server won't explain it, I might as well ask you...
(I understand there's a slowmode, for whatever reason).

[ornate pelican]

Just to clear up a misconception this a mod team decision, not solely my own.

[gusty peak]

people here have repeatedly brought up that we ban Twitter but not Tiktok or Facebook, and I fully agree with that. why stop at Twitter? I strongly urge the mod team to consider expanding the ban to Tiktok and Facebook or even Meta in its entirety, that company has made it absolutely clear what their stance on marginalized groups is in their recent actions

[onyx shale]

Question. Is the mod team considering this to be trolling. Unless shit's acting up on my end, they're literally joining and leaving this server just to drop comments like this
Edit: on my end, they're not on this discord atm? Can't send a SS with slow mode

[wanton karma]

Check their join date. They haven’t been leaving

[plucky niche]

This doesn't make a deal of difference when we users are told to shut up and deal with it, by you. You've repeatedly given the vibe that you consider it us vs them, and denying feedback, personally aggravating your regulars and then letting your mod team deal with the fallout seems a bit unproductive. If productive is what you're trying to go for, anyway

[median mantle]

Their join date for this discord is from 2016 so most likely a clientside bug for you (or they blocked you idk)

[next oar]

I would like to provide a feedback that so far the handling of this situation has been a bit awful.

Eanae's response often misses the mark and looks like it's written sporadically instead of well thought-out messages, and frankly it's just stirring the whole thing into a worse direction without any clear goal in sight.
Most moderators decided to keep it shut which seems like a good idea, but when most of our criticism is about the very lack of communication I just can't help but think there could've been a better way to handle the situation.

[pallid owl]

That's all well and good but diffusion of responsibility to a select group does not change the fact that you are maybe ten people making a decision for us, which many of us clearly do not support, that the 250,000 of us are more than capable of making on our own. That is the crux that you refuse to address.

[merry ore]

I’m a mod in a much smaller server that posts a lot of art and such, we just discussed this within the last two hours and decided to bring the topic up and not outright ban links to Twitter, but to encourage the seeking of other sources wherever possible to support the artists, sure we only have 267 people, but the lack of communication and dismissal/rebuttals we’ve gotten when providing our opinions as regulars is something that is really hurtful to us and makes the community feel far smaller and secular than the broad spectrum that encompasses this server

[indigo girder]

since late 2023 discord partners have been unable to remove partnership as discord disbanded the partner team and everyone who dealt with it. as there's some bullshit that makes it near rather difficult for discord to actually make it a reasonable task for them to handle.

eanae is basically just stuck here unless she goes through a rather long process of changing owners. contacting discord is an utter pain the ass, to be frank, even if you're one of their 'special big server owners'. all partners still get all the same toys/trinkets she does - even if their partnered server is dead, like my own. bout the only ones with 'exceptions' are midjourney et al.
edit: in addition eanae is a sub mod and owns many smaller things that are connected to xiv that are also in her name, acccounts, emails, she's the kupo bot owner, there's a lot of stuff that i'm sure i am also missing. along with things i'm sure she's managed heavily by herself for a long time

in regards to what eanae said just before, i am sure you understand the position of power you hold here. whether this is a 'mod decision' or you feel it is one, i am sure you understand the power imbalance you have over this server. you can leave for however long and come back - and if things aren't how you like it, or how you desire it, you can make whatever changes or executive decisions you desire with little to no pushback.

a mod decision is never simply a 'mod decision' as there is such a heavy power imbalance that going against someone who can just show back up and make what everyone here views as a major change, which you don't seem to care about or understand. it's one of your values and important to you, i get that. but don't you think the mods might be scared to speak their real thoughts?

whether you're speaking truthfully or not right now i don't know, but you've shown me earlier that you misrepresent the way you show metrics and obfuscate many other things you speak about. your words are very incongruent with your actions.

when you speak such short sentences, without responding in good faith to any larger criticism or deflect as you've done now - it's not really helping this situation at all or how the userbase is viewing you.

[jagged mirage]

Current feedback : Eanae’s responses feel like a slap in the face to everyone else who put in time, effort, and energy into writing a diplomatic essay that conveys their feelings on this matter.

Not writing a novel worth of essay on how this isn’t cool, but the Admin’s responses do not help with people’s overall feeling about negligence for the other part of active users who are also a part of this community.

[ornate pelican]

I actually didn’t know I was that stuck. Thank you for the information. Unfortunately while I used to have quite a few discord contacts and we’ve been involved in many pilot projects all of my contacts within discord have since quit the company or were laid off.

[plucky niche]

Agreed. If this isn't their intended response, they should be aware that their given response smacks of 'putting one's fingers in one's ears and going la la la la'. Which is borderline shameful for a frontmost representative of a server of this size, and I hope is not the case.

[fading plank]

Currently the state of the discussion looks like this to me, please correct if I'm misunderstanding something:

Positive changes with this new rule

• Might cost E. Muskinsky a toilet paper roll's worth of money at the end of the year by less ad revenue
• Moral high ground of "we're not supporting morally questionable owner of a website"
• Not having different rulings from the subreddit
  That's it.

Negative changes with this new rule

• Art being screenshot instead of linked means artists get discredited and lose more than a toilet paper roll's worth of income given the size of the ffxiv community and its resulting traffic
• Any international guides etc. that are twitter exclusive can now no longer be discussed without either discrediting the owner or outright pointing to twitter, defeating the implied purpose of this ruling and exposing its flimsy purpose
• A lot of bnuuy media will stop being posted...

I believe the ongoing issue in terms of communication (particularly related to the server owner and how they treat all this) is also separate from this. I was under the impression the mod team was capable of representing the many people in this server, only to find that not only do they make large decisions without asking for feedback, they themselves don't even have the means to overrule a singular person that doesn't play the game and doesn't care to respond to any of the valid criticisms brought forth. It's actually astounding to me that we're not unlike the hellsite we're discussing the ban of; none of the users (hopefully) are doing anything bad, yet the person at the tippy top seems to be out of touch with what its community wants and makes rulings that really only end up harming it.
I mean this about as personally as the comments they have made towards us. So hopefully not at all.

[pallid owl]

Unfortunately I see the answer was yes.

Hopefully there is at least some internal discussion going on behind the scenes because at this point I am quite convinced that you simply do not care.

I must say that I also see some significant irony in how you are treating all of us, and in what you have compared us to, in light of the agenda and actions of the person you are trying to sanction.

[long ridge]

I have to agree. The degree of flippancy with which this is being approached, without providing meaningful responses is quite and is an exceptionally bad look

I would be curious to know, if it was indeed a "mod team decision", how many of the team were actually for or against the decision. I have sympathy for those in the mod team who might be dissatisfied with how this is playing out. I wonder if every member of the team was actually fully comfortable voicing their dissent or if the imbalance of power served as a pressure for them.

From a community member and contributor standpoint, I feel like there is a belief that this will all blow over and people will simply forget. But frankly, it will not, and people won't. The internet being as old as it is now, you'd have to be alarmingly willfully ignorant to think it would.

Everything I have to say about how the community is being treated here, I have already wrote my thoughts on. But damn if it isn't exceptionally disappointing for the salt of flippancy to be poured into the wound this situation has created in this community

[plucky niche]

Agreed with all aspects. While I believe the act of 'ignoring it until it goes away' (despite being well-practiced by oligarchs everywhere) is a practice they should be ashamed of, that seems to be the MO.

Despite this, I do believe this discussion does need to continue, as a way to demonstrate that that isn't going to work as well as they seem to think.

[hollow owl]

there's something I'd like to know. if muskrat never bought twitter but still did everything that he has done, would this entire discussion be happening? i don't support muskrat at all and I 100% hate the guy but preventing content to be shared from a website because of his actions when the content that's being shared has literally no relation to him doesn't make any sense.

if we removed muskrat from the equation, what we would have?

[indigo girder]

i guess the main thing that i can say at this point is that there's more than likely a reason there's no more than a handful of mods speaking here right now, and those who do are quite guarded themselves. some aren't, but i think that says a lot in itself.

this is a done deal, a done decision. and challenging that in any real or appropriate way here or really discussing what we're saying too heavily is, well, power imbalance.

in many of our cases, i guess particularly my own i've dived into some other stuff that muddies the waters for many others to speak authoritatively as i can about these topics. as the info i know really only eanae/me and a few others would even know in this server (i was never admin here or nothing, just partnered server stuff).

and re: what you said @ornate pelican, yeah it's quite bad. it's very difficult to contact them even through owning large subreddits etc. discord downsized heavily cos they're trying to gain profit and also all the early discord stuff just reminds me of when uber was good. you'd get a water and some mints in the back seat. rather than some guy who hasn't cleaned the vomit off the chair next to you properly.

but in general yes you're stuck and you know all the other myriad ways that you're also stuck with xiv, kupo et al. and i can understand why you come back here and try to do things you feel are important to you, or others.

right now you may not be able to speak heavily on this and that's fine, but i'd encourage you regardless of what decision you make to please at least give people the time of day and some honest reasoning when you're ready and capable.

you've hurt a lot of people in a lot of ways and made them feel disrespected and dismissed in what they felt like was a safe place. and now they feel their owner is, honestly rather dictatorial.

[sudden storm]

I will keep my feedback as short and concise as possible. The decision is too rushed, too quick, that's feel like we all powerless against it, nor at least can provide suggestions to strike the balance. And the quiet almost scary of mod team and our Admin's responses feels alienating. It feels like I just stare to abyss and falling down hopeless. I do hope that we can find a common ground of this matter and our Moderation team will take an considerable time to do a meeting and announce the final verdict.

[pallid owl]

Even the owner of the website in question is a proponent of free speech, even if it is in an absolutely sick, twisted fashion that he uses to propagate hate speech. And yet here you are actually limiting the right to use a platform for productive means with no furtherance of his bottom line, which is actively counterproductive to his goals. If anything you're encouraging more people to actually go check out the relevant tweet to whatever was being spoken about since they can't simply view it through an embed, all in a terribly misguided pursuit of moral high ground.

I hate when people virtue signal while showing absolutely no commitment or real action with consequences attached to further their cause. This is exactly that.

[zinc jay]

Having slept on this I don't have much more to add besides being incredibly disappointed in the mod and admin response.

Speaking as a trans, nonbinary person, someone who is very much the core target of recent bigoted efforts, it is shocking to me to see regular users who drive conversations in this server being met with such hate, such a "your parents know best" attitude. I wont be used as a prop in this game whilst also being told I am supporting "nazi propaganda." Is every isolated queer person on the platform doing the same just by trying to exist?

Whether the team decides to change their mind on this or not it should be clear to anyone who reads this channel that the team does not care about their users. A team where at least half of the mods lack consistent public presences should not be dictating what is and is not acceptable for grown adults for them.

Fix your hearts. Because reacting this way to regulars like me, chiyo, aurelleah, and others who have put time into helping people just makes us not want to care if the staff dont care what we think either.

[plucky niche]

Seconded. If I had conducted myself as the official responses have today, I would be ashamed of myself. I merely feel sorry for those bound by this ruling who do not stand by it personally.

[pearl halo]

Yeah. I'm gonna punch my ballot here. I am in favor of the ban, I'm trans and I feel like Twitter is not a safe place anymore and the less traffic it gets the better. I personally wish to see it burn. However, I am also in agreement that this fucks over non-American players who don't give a damn about what's going on here in the US, or people who rely on it for income. Some people can't just upend their social media presence. I've scrolled through the responses here and I'm also not a fan of how the PR for this decision is being handled.

[versed mauve]

just my thoughts but if someone with tight finances can only afford a meal from McDonald's for their kids I'm not going to say to them, "if you're so reliant on a company that supports [country] then maybe you should find an alternative." I'm going to tell them to just buy the meal. some artists are unfortunately reliant on the platform they have built on Twitter. this is not THEIR fault. and unfortunately a purely moral argument does not pay their bills at the end of the day.

[zinc jay]

Ultimately, this server may not be a democracy. But not being present and then suddenly coming in and making a sweeping decision without talking to the users who have been effectively "maintaining" the ship in your absence is rash, and thoughtless. Expecting them to just accept it even more so. But the cherry picking of replies to respond to, especially those from users who are not actually that active on the server, is telling.

[plucky niche]

Given today's discussion, I would like to ask one question. Given the team's attitude, I don't expect an answer but I'll give a bit of grace.

Regarding the feedback form. Is feedback being noted and discussion being had internally, or is the previous staff team ruling that feedback will be ignored still in place?

[heady inlet]

While there is no denying that the reason for this proposed ban is serious and frankly, understandable, at the end of the day banning links to twitter.com doesn't really do anything. Even if every member of the discord were active every day, and clicking a twitter link every day, they would account for about 0.1% of twitter's daily users. given that realistically something closer to maybe 500~1000 users use the discord actively, and not every day at that, banning twitter links would only cut twitter traffic by about 4.54e-5% or 0.000045%, even if everyone clicked a link every day. It just feels like an exercise in futility with nothing but downsides for artists and other members of the community.

[minor kelp]

#announcements message

[fading plank]

they're asking if the form will even be considered

[pallid owl]

We've gotten mixed messages but the overwhelmingly stronger one is that our feedback is still worthless

So excuse us if we ask for clarification.

[plucky niche]

#discord-feedback message hope this helps. unless we're meant to have forgotten about the 'reliant on a nazi propaganda platform' bit.

[minor kelp]

Meara's announcement was made much later, timestamps are a thing, hope this helps

[misty temple]

clarification from someone who is actually a mod would be appreciated.

[pallid owl]

clarification from someone who actually has intention of helping instead of being sarcastic would be appreciated as well.

[plucky niche]

Do you speak for the moderation team? I think I'm unclear on that.
Regardless, while I am very aware of what you say, Meara is not the server owner, and the server owner seems to be unrepentant in their perspective. There seems to me to be two entirely different representations coming out of the moderation team, and they can't coexist. Thus, I am forced to assume the one from the higher authority figure stands.

and while I probably did deserve the counter-snipe, I hope you realise that intentionally terse replies are really not the way to go given everything that's happened today

[onyx shale]

The way that people here are screaming into the void is very telling. I'll be very disappointed (but not surprised) if the mod/admin team strat here is just to ignore here until everything blows over. Sounds familiar? It's what reddit did with all the blackouts (which r/ffxiv strongly participated in).

I any case, it'll be very telling when the twitter ban gets implemented this weekend without anything from the mod team other than a perfunctory "your feedback has been heard"

[indigo girder]

with respect to all the mods here them not speaking up is understandable.

unfortunately there’s only so much that they can say when one is acting very much like spez. those who did when reddit was preparing to ipo were too at risk.

it’s also odd how they’re the same person who gets the benefits from the kupo patreon.

unfortunately i dont have the permissions to check how many have the role for server subscriptions - nor can near any of us know how many pay for kupo bot on discord subscriptions.

but unfortunately the amount of money eanae gets from both this server and everything else she controls right now must be rather high to act this way.

ceo behaviour indeed

[fading plank]

I forgot you can monetize Discords. Thought this was a for fun thing and running the server had no personal gain beyond being able to say you have a large community.
Kind of icky that the person who is disrespectful to its community and their opinions is making money off of them. Maybe that's why they're sticking around? That's not even about the twitter issue anymore, I just find that slimy behaviour. Guess it's still discord feedback though.

[plucky niche]

I'd also like to chime in on that - I know that the odds of there having been a truly unanimous decision on this are slim. If you're reading this and believe my comments are unfairly targeting you, know that my complaints do not address you. My complaints are solely with the individual/s who stand by this irresponsible conduct.

of which, hearing such reasonings as 'protecting the community' while stonewalling and disregarding any fragment of dissent or criticism speaks volumes as to the actual care for the community. Your conduct speaks much louder than your words.

[ornate pelican]

I lose net money off Kupo. His patreon and this Discord do not recoup costs.

Unless patreon changed something I believe I had the income generated public

I just checked it's all still public information. Kupo is not a for profit app and no features are locked behind paywalls. There's always been as much transparency as I've been able to provide in money in vs out with Kupo Bot.

Discord is 19 a month. Server costs were approximately $120 per month. I also have to pay tax on Patreon + Discord money so about 20% of the $80 a month goes to taxes. I am VERY transparent with money and all anyone ever needs to do is ask about it.

[pallid owl]

What about non money issues.

The transparency sure doesn't apply to anything else.
Frankly, I'm not sure why money is even what's in question here because it's not pertinent to the problem at hand, but you just keep addressing what you want to and never what people are actually getting at.

[indigo girder]

that's a setting you select, as you now know.

it gives off a lot of 'i don't care even more' energy with what was said there.

i do find it very, very interesting how the first thing you reply to in hours regards money.

your sudden 'transparency' about this one issue speaks volumes about where your heart stands and doesn't.

is this a registered not for profit? you can't just say something is not for profit and expect a single person to believe you

discord is $19 a month when there are 4 'moogle supremes' and 3 normal 'moogle' subs online right now?

How much money will I earn?

Discord has a 90 / 10 split. This means you will receive 90% of the money that you earn from each monthly subscription and/or one-time purchase you sell, and Discord will keep 10%. Keep in mind, there are various fees that will impact your final payment amount.

eanae why do you falter yet again to be direct and clear, and only show public information we can all gather?

yes life is death and taxes. we all pay tax.

edit: if i recall one of the few things spez replied during the shutdown outside of the normal scope was regarding money and his ipo.

[plucky niche]

I am staggered by how you can enter this channel and address in extreme detail an issue, with no disrespect to kiseia, that is quite tangential. You claim to be 'very transparent' with this, but i cannot begin to quantify the hypocrisy. This conduct is laughable for someone acting the proprietor of a server this size, something I should hope you know.
#discord-feedback message I will ask once more for my simple question to be addressed.

[fading plank]

Forgive me if this sounds like I'm doomposting, why is there an almost immediate reply to something detached from the many issues with the broader topic? Why is everything else so serenly ignored? It's not like you tried and gave up in face of having to repeat yourself - well, ig you repeated that you don't care about our opinions -, there was no attempt despite being asked to make one many, many times.
This implies to me that every other issue raised either isn't cared about (saving face regarding the money is important, but the actual issue is not), or simply cannot be refuted, meaning the ban was largely unfounded / not as well thought out as previously claimed.
I don't really know which one's worse?

Not to sound like an anime protag, but it's not too late to do the right thing and admit you messed up, didn't think this through, should've asked for community feedback and will roll the decision back. Most of all, maybe clarify - or, god forbid - apologise for the absolutely horrendous way you worded yourself earlier and generally conducted yourself towards the community you are choosing to interact with.