Wanna use holos but overheal cause of that.
#endgame-lounge
steep summit
drowsy agate
no sir eukrasia is the DoT button
steep summit
bleak yoke
eukrasia is the button to activate shields and dot 
drowsy agate
it doesn't do shields, what are you talking about /s
golden slate
Chad sage
vernal breach
I just got a bit curious and looked up what that whm was casting, and there was like… 8 counts of gcd healing (excluding lilies)
So idk man, not much healing i couldve done there 
Wasnt even that bad eh
vernal breach
Mhm
naive shale
anyone here know how many stats increase of old bis compare to new bis assuming we compare 1st raid tier and 2nd raid tier?
just a rough number is fine
vernal breach
....hold up
no wait, its alot more than that
alright im back, give or take 21% more m.stat
if trends continue down what i think it is
verbal oak
anyone here know how many stats increase of old bis compare to new bis assuming ...
keep in mind we've only had one tier since the stat squish
i suppose you could look at the difference between 570 and 600
vernal breach
^ which is pretty much what i did
wide harness
so I've never gotten to endgame in FF14 before so uh like how do i get ready for like savage and stuff? what are the expectations if i were to join an average static?
bc I want to do endgame stuff but i dont know how to begin
verbal oak
golden slate
Yes
wide harness
ok
golden slate
Static expectations would depend on the static ur joining
wide harness
yeah but i would assume there are basic standards?
golden slate
If they’re hardcore players, mid core, etc
Basic standards like don’t grief or troll (intentionally), have some knowledge on how to play the game/ur job/fight, and have the basic gear to start raiding with
Which would be the tome and crafted gear
wide harness
i watched that video and am now depressed
round hazel
Really all is asked is to do your homework, know how your job works (tons of guides online) and this can be as basic as your rotation+ opener, and as of now cheap augmented classical gear
P1 and P2 are fairly accessible now, I think. You could PF a learning party just to get the feel of it
bleak yoke
P1 and P2 are fairly accessible now, I think. You could PF a learning party just...
they've kinda been accessible since like week 4 imo
sure doing them with 580 at the time sucked but they're still easy fights that pf can easily get through
robust shoal
anyone here know how many stats increase of old bis compare to new bis assuming ...
I'd have to look up exact stats but roughly speaking the trend is you have between 20~25% more hp/damage from one bis to the next
bleak yoke
I mean it can be calc'd from 6.0 right?
idk if the stat diff between 560 and 570 is the same as 590 and 600 
ig a better range for that is 430/440 and 520/530 since that'll just tell
bleak yoke
a thing rq, hades weaps are 465 right
oh
I don't think there's a true pattern
did a bit different with 570/580 and 595/605 weaps
~6% difference for the former and 5.55...% for the former
vernal breach
that pattern is certainly there
for example..
the 580 gear has 10 vit more than the 570 gear
the 590 gear has 11 vit more than the 580 gear...
drumrolls
the 600 gear has 12 vit more than the 590 gear
now... based on this pattern, i could assume.. that the 610 gear will have 13 vit more than the 600 gear
buuut its also a different raid tier of gear
the eden gear followed a similar pattern but broke it from one 500 gear to 510...
but even so, that 20-25% is probably pretty close
steep summit
books are 1x per week right?
torn kindle
Yep
naive shale
I'd have to look up exact stats but roughly speaking the trend is you have betwe...
ah ok then
that's answer is fine, the rough number should be enough
thx for the answer cat and yeti o/
vernal breach
so.. wat exactly are the uuh
advantages of this?
quick verge
melee uptime 😎
vernal breach
well thats remarkably... simple change
so why isnt this like the PF strat exactly like... the only thing thats different is one of the triangle is now on a platform
torn mesa
cause
that actually requires PF to think
but I mean you can do that yourself if you get far purple in PF
and it won't affect the rest of the group
robust shoal
if the odds have 2 things to think about instead of 1 thing to think about we might wipe :c
torn mesa
it doesn't change that
the only person that has anything to think about under that picture is 1 purple player
when the boss lands, you check which purple would be far, and move to the last corner instead of super far
vernal breach
but I mean you can do that yourself if you get far purple in PF
oh, uuh interesting i guess 
bleak yoke
but I mean you can do that yourself if you get far purple in PF
I do this as any purple 
golden slate
so.. wat exactly are the uuh
advantages of this?
This is the best strat imo
Along with sleepocut but this ones less complex
steep summit
Can DH melds be replaced with DET melds?
dull radish
well sure, as long as DET isn't already capped on the piece of gear in question. Not sure exactly why you would want to specifically do something like that though
steep summit
Cause don't have materia enough DH materia on me
dull radish
oh, well that's fair enough I suppose. If you're looking at an optimized set though, you'll definitely be taking a bit of a loss in damage from making that change, but the difference should likely be relatively minimal (and you can always remeld it later on)
grand mesa
It's pretty unsubstantial, yeah
There aren't really any hard dps checks in content that completely optimal melds warrant, barring dsu atm
sturdy marlin
So im struggling to find a PF that can clear p3s. Is this a normal occurrence? It seems like every PF I join only gets to adds or FoF, even if it’s marked duty complete.
molten moon
verbal oak
So im struggling to find a PF that can clear p3s. Is this a normal occurrence? I...
unfortunately, pf is pretty garbo at p3s from what ive seen
molten moon
Welcome to PF hell
verbal oak
some poor dude was doing it for like 200 hours on chaos week 1
sturdy marlin
Is there a good place to find folks who have cleared to help? Honestly my static is barely clearing p2s, and I’ve cleared p3s. I just want the books for the time being.
So like, anyone know where I can get some folks to help me on a Monday night, after they’ve cleared with their static, just so I can grab the books?
Or whenever really. Just after their static clears is what I mean.
grand mesa
So im struggling to find a PF that can clear p3s. Is this a normal occurrence? I...
pf p3s is a nightmare
people suck
you kinda just have to grind it out and huff copium until you get a clear
grand mesa
Is there a good place to find folks who have cleared to help? Honestly my static...
also, just pf the fights, really
1-0 chest
if it's a busy day you might get enough people in your party
steep summit
So like, anyone know where I can get some folks to help me on a Monday night, af...
Hey drag me with you
Actually more of drag me with you till i see enrage, then I can help clear
still flax
So i finished the story and grind my way to upgraded classical gear (590) did my weekly stone cap and wondering what i do now? The P1-P4 things? The ultimate im not sure what the next progression step is after i reach 590^^
still flax
i see. So more tomes grind and dipping into savage 🧐
sinful brook
you have to clear the 4th floor savage to unlock the latest ultimate anyways
no way around it.
grand mesa
and you want at least 599iL-ish for the current ult
round hazel
I don't even know how you would find a group to do dsu with, without a prerxisting static or pf logs
torn mesa
it's very unlikely
you do any savage run
and not 1 person logs it
so it wouldn't matter if console or PC
pallid gorge
not that unlikely to me at least
bleak yoke
im the one that logs a good chunk of the time 
torn mesa
to be fair same LOL
pallid gorge
my week 2 3 shitty stuff are all up there but the purple stuff are lost to time and space 
also console players without static have to settle for pf strats usually so less uptime, less mit plans, etc
pallid gorge
they arent bad but the people without a static are still at a disadvantage for 90+
which plenty of crazy (imo) groups say “minimum acceptable”
i’ll take 60+
bleak yoke
the only advantage to pf is that it's always available
dont gotta wait on 7 other people you know you get on and raid
you can raid all day if you really wanted to which uh
why would you 💀
pallid gorge
all of the extra available time are spent on trap parties anw
pallid gorge
such a typical opposite end experiences in a conversation about pf
pallid gorge
you can easily orange the whole tier in PF
i do not doubt this at all tbh
torn mesa
I can 100% assure anyone
who claims PF is the reason they can't get orange
that they are wrong
pallid gorge
another typical my exp is absolutely the end of it all
torn mesa
anyways regarding the original point
if you just cleared savage enough, you'll get logged, at least indirectly
so by the time you get to consider doing ultimate, the no logs argument is super unlikely to hold
vernal breach
you can easily orange the whole tier in PF
Easily 😔
still flax
Thanks again for the advices. Ill look first to clear and get a good understanding of the class. It will take some weeks aniway to get bis gear with tomes. 👍 😊
round hazel
Thanks again for the advices. Ill look first to clear and get a good understandi...
Right now you can start without BiS pretty easily, its just augemented classical or aglaia gear or aug radiant
vernal breach
Simple 😔
wet heath
Lol how do people not realize it
vernal breach
its not even like 95% of people
but the higher you go, the more you fight with people who grind day in and out til they have good crit rng 😔
mayhaps.. godly crit rng
wet heath
Me showing a newbie that he simply needs to do more damage than 95% of people to parse orange
Parsing isnt that competitive so theres some truth to all that but i like to poke fun at oversimplifications lol
nova socket
just get 99s in weeklies 
grand mesa
shut up niko
vernal breach
i got a 98 in weeklies once
it was the randomnest thing cuz im pretty sure my previous best was like.. 89 or something
solar wraith
How much harder is P4S compared to P3S?
round hazel
Easier.
pallid gorge
true story
solar wraith
Is it really
I wiped like 96+ times in PF pugs before I cleared P3S so it being easier makes me do a /doubt
solar wraith
Well, I don't have a static
verbal oak
yeah no p3s was a fucking disaster this tier
solar wraith
PF description: FoF->FoA prog
Actual prog is darkened fire because people can't count
verbal oak
actual garbage fight, literally gave a member of my static a fucking headache in prog
like just from looking at it
round hazel
It took my static 6 3 hrs sessions to do p4s and 2-3 months for p3s
solar wraith
I had a headache from looking at it too long too
verbal oak
It took my static 6 3 hrs sessions to do p4s and 2-3 months for p3s
saaaaaaaaame
tho we havent beaten p4s
round hazel
actual garbage fight, literally gave a member of my static a fucking headache in...
I'm colorblind. So I can't do darkfire properly
verbal oak
curtain call is not our strong suit
verbal oak
I'm colorblind. So I can't do darkfire properly
im not even colorblind and i use ACT for it lmao
round hazel
pallid gorge
just count? 
verbal oak
if the game isnt gonna make it accessible imma third party its ass
solar wraith
I'm colorblind. So I can't do darkfire properly
... you just count it, no?
At least I do
round hazel
just count? <:deeerppride:717422419454984322>
Try to count when everything is one single shade of sewer
solar wraith
I don't even notice the color
round hazel
Like I'm red green color blind
Because everything is fucking orange, everything orange is basically grey
pallid gorge
well, i’m not colourbind so i cant speak for those with the condition but the dots are very separated
round hazel
The dots are grey
solar wraith
I think I did take longer to clear P1S than P3S and P2S combined
solar wraith
It's easy
pallid gorge
is it as bad in 2s? with the grey thing?
lyric summit
the dots have different colours? thought they were all white
still pretty easy to count 
solar wraith
You just use the first number for 5,7,8 as your indicator
round hazel
Like I said....colorblind
2S is fine because the colors are different then the arena
solar wraith
1+4 = go to 1
3+4 = go to 3
4+4 = go to 4
lyric summit
it's shapes
round hazel
So I can differentiate the shade
That too
We have shapes and tethers
Dark fire is dots
pallid gorge
I think I did take longer to clear P1S than P3S and P2S combined
p1s is entry level ~ even the most casual casuals will try so it can get potentially weird like that
lyric summit
i can't tell p2s colours apart so i go by shape, but p3s is just counting dots
round hazel
Like I said I would count if everything wasn't blended together
solar wraith
p1s is entry level ~ even the most casual casuals will try so it can get potenti...
Took me about 3 weeks lol
round hazel
round hazel
round hazel
P4S P1 was harder then P4S P2
Imo
Besides curtain call
Curtain call was the hardest part of both
solar wraith
I'm looking at the MrHappy guide rn and it's intimidating
pallid gorge
p3s has a lot of unfortunate factors stacked together to make it a nightmare: people underestimated it cause it’s 3; people stick to week 1 terrible strats; tanks confused on picking up separate mobs or tethers (cause they never had to elsewhere); healers underestimated Ded tolls, and the fof thing; and weird phase transition timings drifting raid buffs and bursts ¯_(ツ)_/¯
round hazel
It's easier then it seems
fervent bane
the biggest wall i had in p4s was people messing up act 4
other than that it's not bad
fervent bane
it's the purple blue tethers
solar wraith
Why do they like pairing blue/purple man
fervent bane
it is easy
round hazel
Compared to CC
fervent bane
doesn't stop people from not knowing how to move ;;
solar wraith
I only watched part 1 so this looks incomprehensible to me
pallid gorge
you’re still gonna die a lot
like, a lot a lot
but overall, the prog exp will probably be more pleasant
fervent bane
mhm, when learning people mess up act 2 a lot
solar wraith
On a scale how would you rate each level of the tier
round hazel
Act 2 is only harder because if one person fucks up anytime everyone dies
solar wraith
If P3S was a 10 and P1S was 1
pallid gorge
4s is probably also a 10 but a more pleasant 10
verbal oak
p2s was a 7 for me but it really shouldnt have
solar wraith
I did legit have migraines progging P3S though
fervent bane
both p4 phases are a 7 in that case imo, p2 a 3
verbal oak
p4s was like a 8 until i figured out wtf was going on now its a 5, p2 is around like 7 rn
round hazel
I enjoyed progging p4p2s for hours
solar wraith
Whoever decided to give that level of visual diarrhea needs some holy fucking water
round hazel
P2 and p1 are -1747282628 for me lmfao
Just training dummies
But I'm phys range so I do shit all
fervent bane
p1 and p2 are so boring compared to the last 2 lol
round hazel
Yep
pallid gorge
the consensus seems to be p4s is easier so you’re gucci 
fervent bane
actually just stand here, do nothing
solar wraith
I enjoyed progging p4p2s for hours
It'll probably be pleasant because the level design itself isn't sodomizing your eyes
fervent bane
same honestly
round hazel
Starts from 0 and ended with a massive AH SHIT SO MUCH SHIT HAPPENING moment
solar wraith
If I can clear in 10 days I'll be happy
round hazel
If you fuck up act 1 I'll laugh
solar wraith
I probably will
solar wraith
It's just different watching a guide and actually doing it you know?
solar wraith
When I was progging P2S I accidentally wiped the party with the debuff
round hazel
fervent bane
its stand in a cardinal, move into tower, move into other cardinal
solar wraith
I legit did not think I'd get the debuff twice in a row
round hazel
Isn't it once during the fight?
solar wraith
It happens 2x
round hazel
I do not remember avarice happenung twice
solar wraith
The 2nd one is with the 3/4 of the arena closed off and you have to go to the corner as DPS
round hazel
Oh right
Idk why I forget
Tbh If you look at my stream I have it so that all my buffs and debuffs are right on my action bar
I don't really look at the arena
So I just forget what's happening and when
solar wraith
What's the usual PF strat for Flow 3 btw. I joined a prog group as a healer to practice once and people were arguing about whether to tank lb3 it or do it the normal way
round hazel
Idk I skip flow 3 in my static
fervent bane
there's a non normal way to do it?
fervent bane
its just stack on the tile
round hazel
And ignore alot
solar wraith
People just ignore the tether and tank lb3 it
round hazel
Normal way is easy tho so idk
fervent bane
huh
sweet blade
Please don't use aids to describe things as a negative 
sweet blade
Gamer tm
solar wraith
We didn't clear that either way because people insisted on doing it the normal way and the tank insisting on LB3 was frustrated
I should do parse runs of P1S and P2S
I only have a green parse on P2S and a blue parse on P1S feelsbadman
sinful brook
P3s pf is only as bad now because we're week 274264772 into the tier
It wasn't absolutely dreadful week one
Still pretty bad
Definitely not a 10 on difficulty just the colour scheming was bad
I use a monochrome filter to play it when I do it
I just count the number of dots
For darkened fire
verbal oak
It wasn't absolutely dreadful week one
I remember that one guy who had like 200 pulls week 1 in pf he was not having a good time lmao
sinful brook
Oh don't get me wrong it was still bad
But 200 pulls is not knowing when to dip out of a pf bad
vernal breach
Trying to do p3s like way back when, was where the whm hate came from i tell
You’d get to deaths toll and just roll over cuz the whm didnt feel like paying the toll
It was so free, the fight was basically over but nope
sinful brook
half the problem when people were blaming whm not healing
was literally them not stacking in for c3
motherfuckers complaining about not receiving healing but were also outside prebuffed c3 range
every healer combo had no problems
dealing with deaths toll
vernal breach
Balance..?
In regards to people not stacking
Yeah, people are monkeys
Although i still place the onus of telling people to stack for cure3 on the healers
As people, as you say, wouldnt otherwise
sinful brook
it was increased in 6.1
and there should be no onus
its literally logic
dying? go closer to healer
vernal breach
I dont think the lack of stacking is whats accounting for the entire party dropping dead
If they were casting cure3 or otherwise
You'd think that they would atleast survive the ordeal
grand mesa
It wasn't absolutely dreadful week one
imo
it was even worse week 1
at least people are geared enough not to consistently wall at darkfire now
though
i can see progging the fight being painful
bc most half competent players are on reclear/clear parties at this point
solar wraith
What job has BiS Asphodelos boots?
steady pebble
monk, sps blm, healers, some tank sets
solar wraith
Ohh okay ,ty
I'll check out stuff for my astro then
Welp
Opened the coffer on my reaper like a moron
steady pebble
rest in pepperonis
solar wraith
what do I even do with it now
steady pebble
glamour?
storm frostBOT
Images of glamour items by Gamer Escape.
pallid gorge
i’m dumb
bold prawn
what job has asphodelos necklace bis?
round hazel
I don't think any
round hazel
Smh BLM whacked
grand mesa
depends on if they want crit sks, but im not too aquainted w any of their bis to say anything for sure
rdm and smn also want it
crit dh good
swift chasm
for FoA, is pizza slice #1 safe as soon as the cast ends?
grand mesa
Yes, but I generally just wait for the slice to disappear
Since the second set before the bait mechanic doesn't have a castbar to telegraph when the first one goes off
swift chasm
ye makes sense
steep summit
If you've cleared and joined a 1 chest party you cant roll loot right?
sinful brook
thats correct
solar wraith
Does anyone have a video on the strats that PF uses for P4S?
IDK what an Ilya looks like though I think I understand what n/s rot is I still don't have confirmation
torn mesa
neither of those are standard PF strats though
if you're referring to part 1, the standard is bilibili for rot/tether, uptime pinax, and north tower
solar wraith
Ahhh
Do you have like a video/diagram I could watch?
ty for informing me though. I'm still doing research atm
torn mesa
uh 1 second
same channel also has a video on north towers
for bibibili, I can't think of a video off the top of my head, but the gist of it is you stack south if hit by 2nd bloodrake. people who need to take stuff move in to south stack, people who need to pass stuff out just chill there.
sage summit
I was checking one of my old parse results, when i noticed this:
How does "Today's %" increase over time?
I thought it was supposed to drop over time because people get better at parsing the run/potency increases from buffs in newer patches vs older patches?
lyric summit
i'm very bad at math so ignore me if i'm wrong but basically,
you were better than 88% of players, a month passes and thousands more clears appear, there's a big chance most of those were worse than 88th percentile because that pool is so big already (like, ~87% there would be a new worse run and ~12% there would be a new better run)
it's in the 6.1 partition too so there is almost no gear changes that would straight up increase average dps on all percentiles
solar wraith
for bibibili, I can't think of a video off the top of my head, but the gist of i...
Ahhh, I think I saw this strat on Joonbob's vid, thanks for the links BTW!
sage summit
i'm very bad at math so ignore me if i'm wrong but basically,
you were better t...
Ahhhhhhhh... i get it now. Thanks!
It's the same logic where the first submission would technically be in the 100th percentile
So it changes over time as more entries are added
lyric summit
pretty much
like on savage release patch you're gonna get that decrease in today's % because more weeks means more gear, and more gear means more parse runs, which means more high percentile runs so on average all runs below become worse
torn mesa
you're also going to see your parse percentile on odd patches
be higher
than even patches
despite your damage being the same
lyric summit
but 6.1 everyone has gear, people do savage less and don't tryhard, so any good clear is gonna stay pretty much as good for the whole partition
or become better if more worse clears appear
bold prawn
Does anyone know the ps1-4 moves that should be macrocasmos’d?
quick verge
can also shift macrocosmos back to firestorms if you effectively skip life's agonies
quick verge
would recommend if you effectively skip life's agonies
bleak yoke
like I said
ain't happening in pf 💀
vernal breach
How 2 reclear p3s easy and skip lifes agony
Put barse party in the PF
Dissuade all casuals and anyone who still wants chests
Attract all the tryhards
Nothing says big dick like 0 chest party on a tuesday
vernal breach
why dont people use this one? :v
bleak yoke
the nin gets hit twice no?
sinful brook
can be potentially more healer "load"
bleak yoke
yeah
also
it would be on the other side of that tile
there's no reason to do that if it isnt for melee uptime
oh also north spot not taken
this just seems like a pepega version to sausage to me
because you still have one person across from the boss
bleak yoke
why dont people use this one? :v
like what's the actual benefit of this off of the diagram you posted
quick verge
it's just an alternative way to get melee uptime
vernal breach
like what's the actual benefit of this off of the diagram you posted
well the benefit i see is there are 3 triangle players in melee range
usually theres only like... 2 triangle players in melee range
dull radish
it's pretty cozy but you can't mess up and swap 2 and 3 there otherwise the debuff from the 1 head impact doesn't fall off by the time the 4 hits and they just die. Also for pugs it's just kinda easier in general to just have them go to their waymark instead of having to worry about relative positioning
vernal breach
*well, by :B:arse parties
in my experience.. do a sausage cut, and they.. dont even play with markers
so... they're willing to adopt a different layout, but not this one for somereason
dull radish
it's a relatively minimal thing any which way, really
vernal breach
mmmk
undone tide
the nin gets hit twice no?
NIN goes all the way to right next to the unsafe tile, then swaps with the gnb who is standing just off of the tile where the odds are
torn mesa
it doesn't matter, they just need 1 heal
by the time purple 4 hit occurs, purple 1's debuff has worn off
sage summit
They're not showing on my FFlogs 😦
Hmm? i still see it no problem
solar wraith
I noticed my parses on the non-standard comp tab yeah
So anything other than 2t 2h won't show on the main?
fervent bane
correct
autumn quartz
do you guys ever do hunt trains?
there's a shadowbringers mount that I want (forgiven reticence)
I'm on Ultros
verbal oak
do you guys ever do hunt trains?
#resources should have listings on hunt stuff for your dc
finite plank
why dont people use this one? :v
it's more of a "oops, we fucked up but this mechanic can still be resolved like this" thing
it doesn't hurt too much
fallen viper
The Aglaia (however it's spelled) alliance raid gives a coin that can upgrade left side vestments and right side acc's, but when can we get the non-Savage item that upgrades weapon?
steady pebble
probably in 6.15 or 6.18
As in shb, they did it at the same time as savage unlock which was roughly around those times
dull radish
it's more of a "oops, we fucked up but this mechanic can still be resolved like ...
it's not really a recovery option, it's actually decently precise and is more of a planned strat than one you just adjust to in the moment. It's due to the specific positioning of 2 and 3 that it works out--the head has to turn slightly with each jump, which delays the 4th impact just enough that the debuff for the person with 1 just barely falls off
finite plank
eh, it usually falls off from what i've observed consistently with 1/4
dull radish
if you have the positioning above it's generally pretty fine
if you mess up and swap the 2 and 3 it does not work consistently
finite plank
another one to the list of "animation makes it slightly different to the point it's fatal"
steep summit
I'm on Ultros
You prolly want to join a hunt discord or hunt CWLS
Source: I'm on ultros
The ones I'm hooked up to are Centurio Hunts and The Coeurl
fair finch
how do I find a group for ex3? Party finder or the high-end duty join thing? There looks like a whole "matching requirements, purpose, practice phase selection" thang
torn mesa
party finder
fair finch
gotcha, maybe I'll wait a few a bit for peak hours than try to give 'er a go. thanks
grand mesa
doesnt matter if i use g4 pots in tea, yeah?
tight wing
hey, i remember doing a strat on tsukuyomi ex unsynced where you stoped damaging her and then start bursting her again, but i dont remember how exactly was it, does someone remember?
naive shale
you dont do that anymore nowdays
just burst her down
or you refer to byakko?
back then there is the stop 63% strats but i dont remember hold dps strats at tsuku (correct me if im wrong)
robust shoal
I know you could avoid her doing her buster if you pushed at certain times but like... oh well, tank died
(could also kitchen sink the autos after incidentally)
onyx nimbus
Out of curiosity, i joined a p2s pf yesterday to get some practice and there was a disagreement between two players about tank lb3 on coherence 3
We had an unused lb3 and then some people died on the handshakes and the laser finished off the stack
The long tether tank didn't want to lb3, just told the group to resolve the mechanic properly (fair)
In my experience though, if a tank is going to use the LB on it, it should be the long timer/tether tank yes? Short timer tank is probably resolving their handshake
nova socket
the short one should be the one lbing
onyx nimbus
Interesting, the groups I've in that called for it usually had long timer tank cast at 70-80% of coherence bar
Short timer tank casts it before the arrows go off then?
nova socket
yes
onyx nimbus
We cleared next pull easily with no lb3 anyways
So it was a moot point in the end
Alright, got it
grand mesa
timing's less tight with a long tank cast iirc
weary bone
What's the drop rate on Eureka Notorious Monster rewards? I did several NMs throughout Pagos while at level to get rewards, and I never received anything that wasn't guaranteed
steep summit
The answer to that is piss shit.
My understanding is that you tank LB if you don’t plan on having the tanks figure out who has the longer timer and drag it away from everyone yeah?
vernal breach
you tank lb if the party cant be arsed to figure out how to do the whole mech
even in tank lb3 strats, the long timer tank still grabs the tether and drags it away as if they were gonna do the mech properly
grand mesa
My understanding is that you tank LB if you don’t plan on having the tanks figur...
yes
well
long timer should be dragging tether either way
its just that
pf is genuinely so bad that they usually can't coordinate enough mit/burst healing to make it through that without cheese
plus, idk if people actually know to stack for that shit after short timers go off
that said
the easy solution to all of this is to just
kill the boss before flow 3
grand mesa
steep summit
Both in PF ofc
grand mesa
tbh
i dont get why people cant get there before flow3
people started skipping that mech week 1
steep summit
Pressink buttons + ilvl + lb saving + can’t not die
grand mesa
you dont even have to use dps lb3
well
maybe right before flow 3 actually happens
so the boss dies
if he's a few pct off
steep summit
But anyway you got me who’s just parsing green cause I’m not 600/need to work on sge uptime. And isn’t doing any practice outside reclears cause I still need to get p3s and p4s
steep summit
Well the 5/8 greys on most of the parties I’m in that contain someone else using fflogs (I don’t, I just look mine up online) say otherwise
But point being yeah people not dpsing hard enough is a thing
grand mesa
you dont even need people to be amazing at dps to skip flow 3 these days
just everyone be a bit above average
round hazel
I don't get it, flow 3 isn't even hard
onyx nimbus
yeah idk, i always resolved the mech since the early groups wanted damage lb3 (usually dropped around 2nd avarice), but with ilvl going up across the board
a lot of people just want a braindead resolution
since for team dps is waaaaaaay more than sufficient to clear the trial with no dmg lb
vernal breach
my newfound observation that no one even wants to press the lb button, cuz thats not good for muh parse
so best do the mechanics correctly bois
round hazel
There's only one fight that I would even consider DPS lb3
And that's p4sp2 lmfao and it's to "shorten" curtain call doesn't wipe us
wheat flame
eh, its not like you need any other lb3 in fights
scenic parrot
bleak yoke
caster lb3 adds then kill before darkfire twister 
grand mesa
my newfound observation that no one even wants to press the lb button, cuz thats...
When the loss of 4 gcds
In a party that doesn't have a good enough kill time to get you a decent parse anyway
vernal breach
adds prog? in may of 2022?
steep summit
YEP
ITS STILL ADDS PROG
JUST CHECK PRIMAL PF
I swear they deliberately made the music for P3S baroque to irritate you more
pallid gorge
some dungeons or somewhere not savage should teach tanks how to pick up the correct mobs then position them at the right places tbh
pallid gorge
where? xD
vernal breach
TEMPLE OF QARN
pallid gorge
like, in theory, it’s not hard hard to do p3s adds but yknow, most tanks haven’t had to pick up the right adds, position them, pop CDs, do dmg, do mechanics with a time limit at the same time ever so shiz happen
vernal breach
....in my experience
adds prog problems are.. a lack of dps, and people screwing up tethers
moer so than tanks not being able to move the adds
which dont even have to be that precise
pallid gorge
not that i’m defending the p3s shithole pf cause it’s worse than allowed but yknow, i guess i can give a reason
vernal breach
that also sounds like too much responsibility for randos in dungeons . w.
they foqing sux
pallid gorge
that also sounds like too much responsibility for randos in dungeons . w.
cant argue with this lol
steep summit
Yeah, but the thing is its less of adds prog and more of 'survivng till adds' prog
The adds bit is actually the easiest bit, outside of sometimes not having dps
Also the please mitigate the raidwide add revival AOE and heal it too
steep summit
Like it really is getting emotionally exhausting after some point when you've done the mech so much you literally autopilot it
golden slate
steep summit
If there's one thing I've noticed its the lack of healing in adds phase. And I know the fight on both DPS and Tank at this point, since most parties havent needed healers.
pallid gorge
vernal breach
medica
subtle marsh
Can anyone help explain or simplify overflow 2 in ps2 for me?
It made sense to me at first until I looked at a joonbob video in which he had arrows facing into the wall.
Originally I was going off of this diagram.
dull radish
That diagram is fine. You have to handle the arrows for overflow the same way as the first one, you just have less flexibility since the water is up and there's a dirty square, and not all of them go off at once.
With overflow 1, everyone had arrows that went off at the same time, so you need to pair up and make sure there's someone that you crash into when your arrow goes off.
For overflow 2, 4 of the arrows go off first, then the second set of 4 go off afterwards. You can tell which set you have based on the debuff timer. So:
- You arrange the first set of arrows on the platforms as pictured. The other four people will be targetted by an AoE marker and need to spread out, making sure they don't clip other people or get hit by the first arrows going off. Both these AoEs and the first arrows go off at the same time.
- After the first set goes off, you have a short time to swap positioning. The people with the second set of arrows now get into position, while the people who had the first set now get those AoEs and need to spread those out
I would assume on the video in question if there were "arrows pointing towards the wall" they belonged to the people who had the second set of arrows and were instead just positioning to spread their AoEs
subtle marsh
Ah, ok. I thought that was how it worked but I think I over thought it.
Thank you, Rika!
steep summit
If you want to know how worried I am about the lack of healing after aoes in p3s, I’m actually vercuring myself in downtime during addphase so I don’t die to raidwide ticks after raidwide aoes
golden slate
Pad hps
drowsy agate
does uwu titan's tumult snapshot addle for the whole duration?
or does addle need to last as long as possible for it
quick verge
latter
drowsy agate
thanks
undone tide
now if only addle worked during primal roulette...
quick verge
get fucked
undone tide
primal roulette was ass on drk
then I swapped to pld
if ur not in wings ur parse deserves to get fucked
drowsy agate
magick barrier would work 
undone tide
that's funny
Wishful thinking
imagine Magick barrier on jwaves
god I hate level syncing
undone tide
don't think so
aetheroplasm applies a debuff, which then explodes
the explosion, afaik, is unaffected by addle
or other such mitigations
golden slate
Cringe
undone tide
i don't think aetheroplasm hits hard anyway?
golden slate
I usually still feint or addle there
The autos kinda hit
So ig they can be somewhat useful
robust shoal
you can addle the aetheroplasms
bold prawn
how do you guys suffer through p3s
steep summit
how do you guys suffer through p3s
We just...do
By switching classes like its going out of fashion
grand mesa
how do you guys suffer through p3s
sheer will, determination and a need for bis pants
steep summit
But really, I don't get healers not healing during add phase downtime, I can squeeze in eurkasian diagnosis -> pepsis -> eukrasian diagnosis + ogcd heal at minimum
bleak yoke
pot jwaves and melt bj first
alternatively
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-s3ypxn_Ck
golden slate
UCR doesn’t allow for static recruitment, u could try finding one or starting one in pf
steep summit
Guess I’m going into 3rd week of p3s prog
steep summit
Well problem is I haven't figured out FoA yet
vernal breach
eh? its easy
you'll figure it out by the 2nd time you see it lol
the first time, you mess up, no biggie
just say "whoops" and dont say anything else
stand on the safe pizza slice, run into the pizza slice ethat just popped
super familiar mechanic, they use it in dungeons and trials all the time
last cave
I've been progging P3S for a month now. By that I mean I progged for 2 weeks and know how to do all the of the mechanics now, but PF is such a disaster that I just can't clear it. Every party that advertises "clear" wipes at adds, FoF, FoA.
fair finch
I've recently hit endgame and have cleared ex1,2,3 and P1S / P2S. To Diricos point, is P3S / P4S a nightmare in PF? Time for me to get in a static?
fallow pine
3 has been iffy for forever unfortunately. 4 parties are generally pretty fine once they make it through p1
but pinax memes are eternal
last cave
I'm definitely joining a static for the next raid tier. I can't do this anymore
If I clear P3S, I am never playing it again
sinful brook
to be fair
statics aren't necessarily better
instead of random monkeys goofing up prog
its the same monkeys repeatedly :^)
steep summit
I've been progging P3S for a month now. By that I mean I progged for 2 weeks and...
All the FoF parties wipe at adds
Quoting what I said after stumbling into being a replacement for a static (which was a far better exp), it's either people don't DPS enough or heal/mit enough in add phase
subtle marsh
statics aren't necessarily better
This is definitely true. Very wise words.
steep summit
Mmmm so close
Last party of the night was made up of people I saw yesterday night that got past FoF + people they were happy with, we got past FoA, but still very scuffed, like lb3 scuffed
grand mesa
I'm lucky enough to have a competent static that presses buttons
bleak yoke
im the monkey in my static
grand mesa
we have like
7 monkeys and one person that's lowkey tired of all the shit jokes that the other 7 make
round hazel
I'm phys range therefore monke
steep summit
P2S reclear, joining an ilvl 591 party
Me: YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO GET BIS SLOT PEOPLE BUT IT WAS ME, EXACTLY 591 ILVL HEALER
later, after rezzing WHM that died to 2nd overflow and almost hitting enrage
Me: correction: IT WAS I, 591 ILVL HEALER WHO KNOWS THEIR SHIT
shit rolls on P2S again tho
austere ocean
ilvl don’t mean shit when alliance raid, crafted and tome are all 590, endsinger ex is 595 and you can augment the tome pieces to 600 now
On top of that, even when you put 595 you still get monkeys so it doesn’t matter 
I joined a P3s party at reclear and they lock it at 599. We 1 shot it but still have deaths and using healer lb
😅week 5000 in the tier so the sketchy one like a certain BLM with 3k dps has cleared the fight, the bar is really non existence
severe flame
I've recently hit endgame and have cleared ex1,2,3 and P1S / P2S. To Diricos poi...
If you waited until the tier is unlocked, I know a group of raiders that take people in to savage to help practice / clear the fights in their free time that means they don't have to join a permanent static, if that's not what they feel like.
nimble flax
how exactly do you deal with fire/ice for nael in ucob?
i'm watching a guide and it's giving me a migraine
quick verge
more than enough
can also snag a coin from aglaia each week so you can buy augments for your radiant gear
quick verge
get them once per week after completing aglaia ye
and can exchange in radz-at-han for a twine/
roborant i think it's called this tier
lyric stag
Oh I see it, so it's 1 to 1 on coins so you can literally upgrade 1 radiant piece a week pmuch?
lyric stag
if i upgrade do i lose the materia in the item? ill bet i do xD
round hazel
if i upgrade do i lose the materia in the item? ill bet i do xD
yes
lyric stag
And yeah he only lets me buy twine and coating, but that's still great
lyric stag
idk ive only found a "budget" set and a bis set list, and im like in between those lol
getting radiant where bis says augmented radiant, then filling rest with augmented classical gear where it should be asphodelos
narrow oxide
I dont think you can buy wep upgrade with coin
Iirc it's savage asphodelos
quick verge
can just remove materia before you augment a piece of gear
nova socket
anything over 580 is more than enough for all the content minus DSR right now
round hazel
but but muh parse
lyric stag
you can remove materia? lol
nova socket
6.1 parses lul
lyric stag
there's a 40% chance to succeed, is that normal?
nova socket
yes
lyric stag
gdi one broke so i still have to go to fking limsa for one materia, then back again
sinful brook
Materia is easy to obtain
You get clusters from aglaia hunts and daily leveling roulette
vivid umbra
Who here has gotten past meteors for thordan
bleak yoke
me c:
bleak yoke
Who here has gotten past meteors for thordan
if you're wondering what the debuff is after ultimate end, it's just thordan taking 25% extra damage and lb is affected by it
(def not a way to ping and generally uncommon knowledge)
quick verge
think the debuff also says in the text he takes increased dmg
undone tide
hi
quick verge
🤨
round hazel
Literally swapped from mch and I started to improve
grand mesa
round hazel
<:prayge:939050800221671505>
ONE TIER ONE 3HR SESSION
round hazel
I can die happy
bleak yoke
it's 50% extra
wait is it actually 50?
because my dh/c ogis in opener do 43k (8% buffs, no pot) and after ultimate end they do 54k (8% buffs, no pot)
dull radish
25 definitely sounds much more correct, maybe 30. Very doubtful about 50
not like it matters in a world where you often end up sandbagging there anyways
bleak yoke
not like it matters in a world where you often end up sandbagging there anyways
I actually never understood what sandbagging means
so what does it mean
dull radish
in this context it just means holding dps, you generally benefit from not killing thordan quite as quickly
more generally it just kinda means purposely doing worse/holding back instead of doing your best
bleak yoke
ohhh
quick verge
job's performance is good
job is in a bit of a rough spot, still fine for all endgame content
drowsy agate
nothing "falls off" endgame
despite MCH being in a rough spot, individual performance far outweighs job balance
good MCH is gonna outdps mediocre <insert class here> so just play what you want to
verbal oak
The only things that fall off are me on the arena
Shiva from e12s still gives me nightmares
vernal breach
good MCH is gonna outdps mediocre <insert class here> so just play what you want...
this is what i tell myself everytime i play pld
praying that the gunbo/drk doesnt parse over 60 so i still look good
onyx nimbus
What happens when the WAR beats you on dps
verbal oak
you die
vernal breach
ive never met a decent warrior ;l
i think its like whm, where the skill floor is just so low that you have all these wankers that are attracted by the low entry point
limpid sage
Hi question, p3s description for p3s in crystal says group 1 is N/E n g2 is S/W. What do they mean by this. Im new to p3s prog
onyx nimbus
The people who think they can just pick up warrior and automatically be good at tanking don't even use cooldowns besides bloodwhetting because tank mains mention BW bring "so OP"
vernal breach
i think its just describing which adds are being picked up by which group
which matters the most if you're a tank, and the rest of the lot can just follow the tank lol
sinful brook
that and teh priority for dodging the experimental charplume
when its rotation aoes and stack/spread
vernal breach
fancy
sinful brook
it makes it a tad easier to decide which group goes where
limpid sage
Ok and for fof , which group goes where? G1 also do N/E?
sinful brook
fountain? each role has a different role to take
healers have to soak towers
and then its tank/melee/ranged for baiting the aoes
if you're new to p3s
you might not want to study so far up quite yet
thats a bit more than halfway into the fight
limpid sage
Oh ok tysm!!!
hearty yacht
soooo any tips on doing endsinger's EX planet+head mechanic consistently-ish? preferably caveman proof!
onyx nimbus
the basic starter head?
hearty yacht
Yes
i have no problem with pretty much everything else
but i always get cheeto'd there
onyx nimbus
does your team use intercardinal markers?
hearty yacht
Ye
onyx nimbus
so impact point is always going to be the intercard that the slow planet is moving towards
then adjust towards if blue, away if orange
then adjust for back of head
hearty yacht
so far i did make it to enrage once but im tired of getting cheeto'd
onyx nimbus
if it's just orange planets, then whatever deductions you make during blue planet, do the reverse
hearty yacht
ill try it out,thanks
onyx nimbus
now if you're talking quad planets that's a different can of worms
hearty yacht
quad planets are usually easier
hearty yacht
and i can do 5 spinning heads decently consitently
+the donut or flare simon says is laughably easy once you get it
molten moon
Are you getting hit with the head half stage cleave after planets
onyx nimbus
wait so how do you read double orange planet (not quad)?
that's literally the single orange planet read but less forgiving
hearty yacht
blue planet gets me because i get pushed into the head's aoe
molten moon
Ah
hearty yacht
red planets are easy since i play rpr
hearty yacht
i got sprint AND a dash/dashback
onyx nimbus
when you say cheeto'd do you mean orange planet OHKO or vuln stack?
because i assumed the former
hearty yacht
when you say cheeto'd do you mean orange planet OHKO or vuln stack?
vuln stack
onyx nimbus
oh ok
molten moon
Use blue knockback to get into the head safespot
onyx nimbus
how i do blue planet knockback is this
find slow planet
run to next intercard it will arrive at
turn camera to look at head
take 2-3 steps towards whichever side correlates to the back of the head
hearty yacht
find walter white's planet,run to it,see where evil head looks asap,take step into good zone
grand mesa
soooo any tips on doing endsinger's EX planet+head mechanic consistently-ish? pr...
i use the arrows as a guide
there's a way to get uptime if it's inner red planet>inner head cleave but i wouldnt worry about it until you get used to it
hearty yacht
yeah idc about uptime that much
first is surviving and not giving people cheeto stacks
grand mesa
fair
hearty yacht
then is damage
grand mesa
just focus on where the slow planet is heading and move away or towards that intercard depending on planet color
hearty yacht
i do try to continue attacking all the time but i do fuck up my rotation a bit sometimes because im focused on not dying
grand mesa
then either be on the intercard that isnt getting cleaved in the case of red planet
or get knocked back into it
let's say the cleave is towards northwest and blue planet resolves southwest
you want to be near blue planet and be knocked into safe side
in the case of red planet
run away from it and be on the side that head isnt facing
hearty yacht
any easy way to know where its facing?
grand mesa
target circle
hearty yacht
True
grand mesa
it's usually pointing one way
hearty yacht
i have 0 IQ after all
grand mesa
you can also somewhat deduce where the planets are resolving this way
because if say
you see head cleaving northeast like here
the planets will only collide at northwest or southeast
bc the game will always give you a safe side to get knocked back into, or to run towards
hearty yacht
unga bunga?
grand mesa
unga bunga tldr is
run away or walk towards where slow planet is going
get knocked back/move towards the side that head isnt facing
hearty yacht
how to know where head face
hearty yacht
(this is like,actually the first EX trial i have done in like a year,and the first one where i've done while it is current)
grand mesa
yeah, no worries
hearty yacht
should i get a potion?
grand mesa
pots shouldnt be needed
hearty yacht
i heard they are good
grand mesa
just roll your gcd
hearty yacht
i did buy the bis food
grand mesa
food's good, pots aren't really needed though
so
the direction the arrow it's facing is where its going to cleave
and it's always a half arena cleave
hearty yacht
any wya to make arrow bigger?
grand mesa
just dont be on the side its hitting once planets are done resolving
nope
but
it's big enough that it should be visible to most people
unless you have vision issues
hearty yacht
i do wear glasses but i don't really have any major problems while im wearing them
grand mesa
yeah
should be fine then
the target circle is pretty big
like, i'd be surprised if you dont notice it kind of big
hearty yacht
i didn't sleep in 23 hours and was running on pure caffeine so its probably because of that lol
grand mesa
i
definitely would get more sleep before you go back in there
ive raided on 0 sleep and it isnt fun
specially if you're trying to learn a fight
grand mesa
Doesn't mean that it's a good thing 
hearty yacht
if i could fix my sleep i'd do it i swear
onyx nimbus
sometimes you gotta fold them
i was having a good endsinger farm then i primal rended 0.5sec early into orange planet
then on another run i went "monkey see monkey do" and onslaughted 0.5sec early during max melee part of 5head
both runs still cleared easily but i bowed out
verbal oak
big gaming
grand mesa
nice
hearty yacht
time to... gulp search for an static
round hazel
Iz not that bad
steep summit
Someone save me from p3s pf
hearty yacht
smh why can't i do a full reaper static
just get a tanky voidsent and a healy voidsent bruh
vernal breach
well, it took like.. the games entire life to finally have gun tank, gun dps, and gun healer
so give it another 10 years and we'll have void healer and void tank
hearty yacht
i want an edgy healer fr
sick cape
i know buff and debuff from duplicate job don't stack, but does DoT stack?
next estuary
Hey can someone help me?
I've forgotten what song is playing here? https://youtu.be/JUm3vbmJQN8?t=1337
subtle marsh
https://xivanalysis.com/fflogs/bHFNVJhD4rTB9dXn/4/6
I have been working on cleaning up my xiva and I know my uptime can usually be a lot better than what shows here. I think the DS notice was when I died but other than that it just looks as though I have to clean up the fundementals.
It's frustrating because even with that, I am still single digit grey. Is the gear disparity that bad right now? I am 592.
verbal oak
https://xivanalysis.com/fflogs/bHFNVJhD4rTB9dXn/4/6
I have been working on clean...
drg is god awful to die on, since you lose all your resources and drift waaaaaay out of shit
assume the losses of gcd uptime and drifts were due to the death, theres still issues with hitting your postionals and theres a few instances of triple and quad weaving
not to mention the killtime was perfect, but because you died you missed out on it probably
drowsy agate
it's not gear disparity, for one thing
8 item levels does not bring a grey to a purple
subtle marsh
I'm not even looking for a purple, I think assuming as such is pretty outrageous. But it seems strange regardless that I'm struggling to even get a green.
subtle marsh
assume the losses of gcd uptime and drifts were due to the death, theres still i...
This is part of what I've been really working on.
There are some instances where everything is up at the same time so I kind of panic trying to get everything in without drifting too much.
I've gotta learn the priority of what to use first, or what's acceptable to hold during some mechanics that won't obliterate my alignment.
But it makes sense that the one death is really what just kills me.
drowsy agate
well honestly
if you're looking for log analysis I would suggest getting one that doesn't have a death first
deaths pretty heavily fuck you up
i'm not a dragoon main so my advice is pretty limited, but I would start there
steep summit
I'm only a lvl 78 drg, but that xivanalysis link basically says you need to work on your burst rotation.
oh and don't die
torn mesa
https://xivanalysis.com/fflogs/bHFNVJhD4rTB9dXn/4/6
I have been working on clean...
at 592, you should be trying to get mid blue
steep summit
Also for P1S specifically you need to do mechs right to avoid damage downs
actually but P1S and P3S... though most of the time in P3S you just die if you fuck up.
sinful brook
its like this in all the fights of the tier
steep summit
Fair, though P2S doesn't have much in the way of avoidable damage -> damage downs, so it pretty much skips to the you just die bit.
keen sigil
is it even possible to skip P3S to go to P4S?
torn kindle
By joining a P4S party you can
Just know that once you enter P4S you forfeit all your P3S loot by doing so, including the book drop
Same goes for P1S and P2S
keen sigil
at this point, I just want to get it over to p4s. FoA is killing my sanity on PF
austere bay
at this point, I just want to get it over to p4s. FoA is killing my sanity on PF
use the crazy and become even better at killing that damn bird
snow acorn
I saw 2 Blue planets going into 2 Red planets and Immediately LB3'ed
Probably saved that run
because people came out of it with 3 vuln stacks
keen mauve
Yeah that saved it.
Fuckin hate those planets
subtle marsh
at 592, you should be trying to get mid blue
This makes sense.
Thank you.
grand mesa
I'd focus more on uptime and minimizing rotational mistakes
I'm not sure if xiva counts death time as a downtime loss but
89% isnt ideal, specially during full uptime fights like p1 and p2
subtle marsh
I would think it does? I could be wrong.
I've had higher uptime prior so I'm not sure what changed really. Either way, I'll work on it.
Thank you, Cyan!
grand mesa
I'd say that you can reasonably still keep 95%+ even if you're moving out for stuff like p2s flows a few seconds early
stuck wigeon
is they any audio or visual cue to tell me if my positional registered?
robust shoal
yeah
stuck wigeon
wow, ive never noticed, thanks
robust shoal
I should redo that because I didn't realize you don't need to do the full combo to get the positional indicator
but yeah it might take a bit to see it even looking for it
stuck wigeon
why is this something that ive never heard anyone talk about in the last 5 years
blows my mind
robust shoal
I legit think most people don't know about it
It's also easier or harder to see depending on job, though that might just be how used to each one I am
finite plank
i remember it being changed so that the sound kicks in even if it's not the intended position
robust shoal
I find it hard to see on mnk but on nin if I miss a positional it's like missing a step on a staircase
stuck wigeon
I wonder why SE never put in a text under the number to tell us if the positional succeeded
I noticed this in lost ark and made me wonder why ffxiv has such an elusive presentation on positonals
subtle marsh
Oh damn, there are queues?! I meant cues..
steep summit
Right that’s p4s door boss understodd
steep summit
P4S doorboss check.
frank swallow
P2S dps check is painful
frank night
p2s dps shouldn't be an issue unless ppl are wiping during the coherence, kampeos harma, or the sliding mech phases
round hazel
frank swallow
How hell is P3S
round hazel
Do you think meteon saw day before reset p3s clear parties and decided nihilism was the way?
frank swallow
