Eternium Garden & Cursed Bloom Compensation – Why this approach worries me

[foggy steppe]

I think that would've been a bigger issue, why bother pay that much money for no acknowledgement

[rain trench]

because at that point it's a community event. Seeing a whole sea of flowers and just knowing that yours is one of it

[foggy steppe]

What do you suggest they could do as a compensation

[vital tinsel]

and instead 4 spots, just get 1 flower spot that has 4 different flowers in one for paragon, and 1-3 colours to those who get single packs

but i guess that would be harder to code for them

[scarlet cypress]

They dont have to do anything, but it should have been like Arcs or weapon slots or somthing, not a exclusive item

[plain shale]

there has been plenty suggested in this thread, they could’ve given premium currency, they could’ve given the bestitching currency

[foggy steppe]

This is 100% what I want and thought was gonna happen

[raw pike]

i also want to point out that a lot of founders couldn't plant on day 1 because of a bug they didn't fix until the day after, where the eternium could lock your UI and force you to restart the game

[foggy steppe]

That would still cause issue, they could give a lot of non exclusive stuff but it would definitely then feel like a bandaid because those who tried to do it early lost the entire reason they did it early

[plain shale]

well yeah, I just wanted to point out that I think the point of argument I’ve seen from people is that exact thing: “why does there have to be a reason to do it early?”

and ppl are calling out the system is flawed from the very beginning

[foggy steppe]

It's not like they wanted to do this in the first place, they never wanted this but I can go on and on but since I'm an affected I don't think what I say will justify anything

I said what I think, why I think they did what they did and why I think it's OK to let those affected be compensated, their method whether is right or wrong, I still lost what I wanted to do

[supple turtle]

You are correct, the garden itself was also brought up by the OP. The topic is for both of the separate but related issues. There's just... a lot of messages now. Link back to the first post in case anyone needs it (it's in the second post): #1443714523298009109 message

[plain shale]

tbh I don’t rlly have a stake in this myself, I was interested in purchasing a founder’s pack but decided to hold off to see where DE will take the whole thing and I was just bringing up points other ppl’s arguments that I felt brought up good points. the point of this thread as far as I understand it is also so this kind of thing doesn’t happen in the future of the game too, with ppl racing each other, having issues, being disappointed, etc. but I’m really just observing the situation atm anyway, I shouldnt be sticking my nose into things lmao

[raw pike]

i was really hoping for an endless field of flowers with names tied to them with no dates, no race to be early, you could record your placing of the flowers to remember their location. but otherwise, you could be content to know that in that endless field of blooms, of people that loved and this game enough to support it from the very beginning, is yours.

(or maybe they could highlight or mark your flowers somehow when you visit, idk, but you get the point)

[dark field]

thats another nice idea

[raw pike]

i just wanted something simple, but beautiful and emotional. a display of all of the hopes and aspirations that the community has for the game.

[rain trench]

Personally I was expecting something similar to Warframe's Tennocon 2025 relay when it was filled with lotus blooms

[raw pike]

but instead, they tied dates and instance numbers to the flowers, making it a race to see who could be first. i don't think there was malice in the decision, but it definitely perverted the point of founders away from being a way to show the love and hope we have for this game, into something else entirely. i hope they do something, i don't know what, just something.

[plain shale]

I like the image with this, that was beautiful
maybe the names and such can pop up in soul sight to show who planted the flowers, so if you just want to appreciate the garden you can do that too?

[dark field]

do you have a picture of it?

[raw pike]

screengrab from a youtube vid of the relay

[rain trench]

^ It was way better to experience in person, there's a quiet reverence walking through those fields of lotus blooms.

[raw pike]

it was

the music completed it

[rain trench]

now imagine if each flower there was planted by a founder, and you get to walk through a field of it. You don't even need to know who planted it or when. You will experience it as a single entity

[raw pike]

in my ideal world, i would do it that way, no names. but i think a lot of people would want their names tied to their flowers, i think cartilyn had a good idea with the names only being visible with soul sight

you only see the names if you really want to

[dense dune]

Could have it where as your walking it just gives random founders names floating above the flowers, maybe with your flower looking special in the field or being highlighted.

[lean wolf]

That's the funny part

[lean wolf]

They could have easily given you 1000 Arcs (aka the paid currency) then put the cursed flower in the market for anyone that got the Paragon Founders pack

As they have done said compensations for even worse issues in the past

[dark field]

that is really pretty yeah

[dense dune]

The argument for that is it's progression, though I've not seen many people actually say they wouldnt want that over the current method.

[dark field]

how would it be progression?

[lean wolf]

That method would have been better compensation as it would essentially be a INGAME partial refund via adding more currency into the game for them

And the Cursed Bloom being for Paragon founders only make since considering what they're met to be lore wise is a Unique version of the Divine Trio having United (aka which is even directly shown in the emblem and Necklace the pack gives)

[dense dune]

Since you can just buy frames and weapons with arcs without it.

[dark field]

i guess i can see that, but since all the founders packs already contains arcs i dont see how it would hurt anything

[lean wolf]

It contained enough Arcs to grab every pact BUNDLE and a couple others on top of a few weapons and slots

[short pumice]

like that person above said, maybe hide the name, only show when in soul sight mode

[lean wolf]

So adding even more ARCS as compensation would have changed nothing, except to repay those who had issues

[raw pike]

that's what i said in that very message, lol

[dense dune]

I've also seen someone say there would be some issues with it because certain countries don't allow premium currency so those players don't get rewarded.

[short pumice]

I have a low attention span lmao, I didn't finish reading your message

[lean wolf]

Name which country that has Warframe/Soulframe and doesn't allow it

[dense dune]

Idk, I'm just telling you what I was told when I asked about it.

[lean wolf]

Yeah nah... If it can't have Digital currency then they can't even play online-Liveservice games for the majority part so thats complete BS

[foggy steppe]

That's one part of compensation but how would it make up for the fact that I lost the plot I wanted?

[lean wolf]

By changing the Plot design entirely like others have been saying for months, since it's already atrocious

Meaning when it eventually gets changed your flower was given out for nothing

Meaning your compensation in the long run was less compensation and more "Appeasement" until it was made useless meaning extra arcs to those affected, and allowing paragons to buy the cursed bloom would be more effective in long term compensation & Community mending

[foggy steppe]

This is the thing, while I know the entire garden and plots are controversial and even I don't want to be a part of it hence why I never planted my stuff until I realized nothing gonna change to make it better, they announced it prior and it was the entire reason I chose to sub freely so me and many others losing that chance to plant where they want was a massive slap, we were forced to stay alone and look as what we were promised didn't get delivered, we lost something we couldn't get back, the only way we will accept not getting compensated is if they remove the gardens and planned a day where we can plant our seed anew to compensate for what we couldn't get when we were alone without out entire stock

[lean wolf]

You say that yet your entire argument falls flat due to the fact you literally added Cursed Founder to your name which shows the Hypocrisy

Try another lie -_-

[dense dune]

I trust that the plot system is going to be changed in the future in some way, the current is way too dividing considering that people care about plot numbers, espicially to console players who are going to be stuck in plot 600+, they probably didn't think number would matter that much when they made the idea.

[foggy steppe]

I added that our of pure entertainment, it wasn't given to me or anything

[raw pike]

yeah i'm convinced there wasn't any malice behind their decision making, they just weren't aware of the unintended consequences

[short pumice]

legit, didn't think about that lmao

[lean wolf]

That's because while they have good vision a majority of the time, they always short sight the most public and simplest things

[foggy steppe]

This exactly, it's like people thing we got compensated because the devs and mods wanted us to have a lure advantage

[dense dune]

the plot system is actually going to be used for player wars where we are seperated into each 100 plot instances

[raw pike]

specters of the rail 2, electric boogaloo

[dense dune]

i honestly wouldnt be suprised if they didnt plan to change the plot system into something else later on like the rotating relays but just dont know what it is yet and dont want to say "we dont know what we are going to do with it"

[lean wolf]

They literally had the exact same issue with

Frost & Mag Heirloom

Excalibur Prime

Grate Prime (cost 3,993 plat)

And a number of others, so saying they didn't see it exploding in their face is a bs especially considering STEVE in the past has shown he loves to give out exclusive that say "Look at me I was here", that no one else gets

[foggy steppe]

I highly doubt anyone would listen to me but compensation for a massive mess up is valid, whatever the dev choose to compensate with is their choice

[raw pike]

i disagree, and don't really want to debate

your opinion is valid, though

[lean wolf]

"False Bow out" does not make your hypocrisy less visible

[dense dune]

I dont know what grate is in wf and am just thinking of a gold and blue air vent grate.

[raw pike]

it was an april fools joke from over a decade ago

[lean wolf]

I've been here since the start, I have the excal prime etc and openly want the devs to make it available to console players as they were never even given a chance to get the Founders pack, WHICH would not violate their promise as they specifically said it wouldn't come out again, back when Warframe was PC exclusive, thus meaning due to a future change said pack should have been made available upon console release yet wasn't

[foggy steppe]

Please do explain how me being affected invalidate my voice and changes how DE themselves choose to make up for their players because this isn't the first time they did this and I wasn't part of their other projects compensation

[dense dune]

oh its actually a gold air vent grate

thats hilarous

[raw pike]

dude, please just leave me alone

i'm not here to debate

[dense dune]

stop responding then patchwork.

[lean wolf]

This tab is to debate why it was the incorrect line of action, if you don't want to debate then move along

[lean wolf]

You're voice is invalidated the moment you said "I don't even want to be apart of said group" yet proceed to have added cursed founder to you name, showing clear hypocrisy & attempt at false Bow Out

[dense dune]

this tab is for feedback, not really for debates. it just turned into the debate thread. also if they want to look and talk they are free to.

[raw pike]

it was hilarious, one guy actually bought but i believe they gave him his plat back

[lean wolf]

Ding ding ding ^

[lean wolf]

He also still has the grate too and it drops an Orokin Air vent when he spawns into a mission

[dark field]

i hear what you are saying and i understand it, but i dont agree with the way this was all handled.
it only made it so everyone that got affected got an exclusive item and everyone that paid the same money now gets left out of it and it feels bad honestly, since no one could control it.
this thread is here to voice feedback and to try and find a solution that can hopefully make everyone happy, so if you have any ideas and solutions you can think of please do share them

[novel pumice]

It's not a debate, it's a few people complaining that they did not receive a flower for the past 3000 comments

[lean wolf]

Just wanna know one thing..... Why is there 1 random Orokin Grate on Corpus, Infested, & Grineer ships XD

[lean wolf]

When you flat line it that's literally all debates one side complaining about something and proposing better options while the other tries to fight against said notions or rationalize it

[foggy steppe]

I didn't want to be a part of the garden, I added that part to my name because I thought it was nothing but a silly gimmick
People including you are taking this waaaaay too seriously to the point where just being a part of the affected group and even naming yourself to being one of them made you think everything I said is invalid is just so stupid and silly
What I think vs what you think doesn't change how I was a victim of something and you were complaining that you weren't treated like me

[lean wolf]

. ,. And the fact that every single person with curse founder in their name says the exact same thing totally doesn't invalidate what you have said because why would the repeated lines be invalid?

Bottom line: Those who got the flower Want it to show of and remain exclusive, and directly fight against a more reasonable form off Compensation because then they wouldn't be exclusive anymore

..
..

More reasonable and best option of compensation for an issue out of everyone's control:

Pay those directly affected 1000 extra ARCS then to say sorry to the paragons as a whole for having such issue even being a possibility, Add the cursed bloom as an exclusive one time Arcs shop purchase.

[novel pumice]

show off in what sense? having a different colored flower in garden 3651? I think you're way too invested in what at the end of the day are pixels in a game

[lean wolf]

At the end of the day Life is a Dusty Fart, yet you still have people debating about others ability to access things

What's the point when it's all gonna end anyway ?

You see said notions of "what's the point, or it doesn't matter" can be applied to everything, so using it in this context where due to it being digital means it can be instantly remedied unlike an IRL issue this means it's worth actually debating due to the instantaneousness of a solution being possible

[dark field]

please remember to keep the chat civil and on the topic or its just gonna end up getting locked again

[rain trench]

Reductio ad absurdum is a very unhelpful retort to this whole conversation. As many others have previously pointed out: it was never about the flower per se, it's about compensating an issue with another exclusive reward that other people do not have a fair chance at acquiring.

[lean wolf]

Exactly^

[dark field]

^this

[lean wolf]

1. Retort to anyone saying "Buts it's pixels"

[lean wolf]

2. Solution

[lean wolf]

3. Retort vs anyone saying we shouldn't be debating..

[lean wolf]

4. Retort against anyone saying "I got this but I don't want to be apart of the group" and proceed to have said title in their name

[lean wolf]

5. Explanation of Recurring Cycle, and an ISSUE that needs to stop being repeated

Especially SINCE they specifically said no FOMO outside of Paragon.

Kindly read over each Number before replying to ensure that what you add to the conversation has not already been debated or retorted against

(BUT THE DEVS CHOICE) does not count as a viable argument as they again have already assured no such kind of fomo, meaning they directly went back on said promise and thus should do the same for all past iterations of Fomo promises such as "Warframe" since they don't seem to have an issue going back on this promise here is "SoulFrame"

(Cough: Excalibur P. for consoles??)

[raw pike]

i just wanna point out that it's been 10 minutes since anyone else other than you has said anything, and you're boxing against opponents who straight-up aren't even here

[lean wolf]

. ,. (Want to point out I'm clearing the air so that all future additions will actually add to the conversation and not repeat)

[dense dune]

But they will repeat because it's going to get covered up in a day and the process is going to start all over.

It's been the same few arguments since flowers were announced, it's a 3k comment discussion for a reason

[lean wolf]

Then I will link them again & Again & again . ,. Until the issue is resolved or the devs publicly talk to the community

[celest light]

I'm gonna reply just to +1 this

[novel pumice]

At this point you're doing nothing but spamming

[lean wolf]

1. Retort to anyone saying "Buts it's pixels":
   #1443714523298009109 message

2. Solution:
   #1443714523298009109 message

3. Retort vs anyone saying we shouldn't be debating:
   #1443714523298009109 message

4. Retort against anyone saying "I got this but I don't want to be apart of the group" and proceed to have said title in their name:
   #1443714523298009109 message

5. Explanation of Recurring Cycle, and an ISSUE that needs to stop being repeated, especially since they specifically said "no FOMO outside of Paragon":
   #1443714523298009109 message

..
..

Kindly read over each Number before replying to ensure that what you add to the conversation has not already been debated or retorted against

(BUT THE DEVS CHOICE) does not count as a viable argument as they again have already assured no such kind of fomo, meaning they directly went back on said promise and thus should do the same for all past iterations of Fomo promises such as "Warframe" since they don't seem to have an issue going back on this promise here is "SoulFrame"

(Cough: Excalibur P. for consoles??)

[wispy kestrel]

I love how you act like it was sorely our choice to get the item when DE were the ones that decided that it was necessary that we receive it as a compensation. Also you are barking at a convo that was done few days ago. Have fun with that.

[lean wolf]

Read the list as this argument was already covered

"I got this but don't want to be apart of said group" / (BUT DEVS CHOICE)

[rigid drift]

Well all we realistically can do is wait for DE to respond on the issue

This is a beating the dead horse topic at this point

I understand everyone’s frustration though

[dark field]

Yeah pretty much.
I just want to hear peoples ideas and suggestions for what can be done so everyone can hopefully be happy

Or at least so this won’t be repeated in the future

[sand hawk]

Individualism in modern gaming has turned into a curse. Too many players act as if every limited skin, every achievement, every cosmetic is a personal entitlement, then cry “FOMO!” the moment they can’t instantly acquire something. But FOMO isn’t some universal truth.It’s a mindset. You don’t need to own everything. You don’t need to stand out all the time. Games were never meant to be endless arenas of personal branding.

What makes this even more frustrating is how some people direct their outrage. Instead of criticizing the truly predatory systems in the industry, the massive publishers who pioneered aggressive monetization, they bash a relatively small developer who is trying to sustain a project without those exploitative tactics. That’s not just misguided, it’s alienating. And frankly, some people should be ashamed of that attitude.

At the end of the day, the obsession with individual distinction and the compulsion to collect everything isn’t a design flaw, it’s a cultural one. And until players stop feeding that cycle, no amount of complaining about “FOMO” is going to fix anything.

[supple turtle]

You do not get to decide who should feel shame and who shouldn't, or what is important to people who aren't you. Please don't be rude. This thread is divisive enough as is, and the mods have stepped in repeatedly to remind everyone of this.

[tired pendant]

I actually agree that not everything needs to be obtainable and that completionism / “having everything” is often a player mindset problem, not something every game has to solve.

What I’m pushing back on here isn’t “I deserve every shiny thing” – it’s the gap between what DE said they wanted Soulframe to be (no FOMO / no extreme exclusivity, founders available long-term, etc.) and how things like the Gardens + bug-locked cosmetics are currently being implemented. That’s not about personal branding, it’s about design consistency and trust.

Nobody here is calling DE predatory or putting them in the same box as the worst monetization schemes in the industry. The feedback is: please don’t repeat those patterns at all, especially when you’ve explicitly told us you want to avoid them this time. If we care enough to argue about it now, it’s because a lot of us actually want Soulframe to stay that healthier alternative in the long run.

[sand hawk]

I’m not telling people what they’re allowed to feel, I’m pointing out a pattern in the community. The constant FOMO panic, the idea that every limited item is some kind of personal requirement, and the pressure to own everything isn’t healthy for players or developers. That mindset fuels outrage where it doesn’t belong.

My point wasn’t “you must feel shame,” but that some reactions in these threads are way out of proportion and unfairly hostile. Calling that out isn’t being rude, it’s addressing the culture that turns every cosmetic or event into a crisis. The frustration isn’t about the item itself, it’s about how individualism and FOMO keep blowing situations completely out of scale.

[supple turtle]

And frankly, some people should be ashamed of that attitude.
Except you literally did tell people they should feel shame. Please be more considerate of the way you phrase things, it's honestly so exhausting seeing everyone throwing shade at each other throughout this thread (not that I'm blaming you for everyone else's comments)

[silent jackal]

nature of humans; tribalism is a very common dark pattern amongst humans and enabling it by having exclusive FOMO-inducing items, whether people "want" them or not, is still a bad decision

this entire incident could be avoided by simply listening to players' feedback on past incidents and simply not creating more exclusives, yet they do

[supple turtle]

People wouldn't comment on this thread so much if it wasn't important to them, we all want the game to succeed. It's not like people are all here complaining just to complain.

[sand hawk]

I get the point you’re making, but I think this flips the responsibility the wrong way around. Calling every limited item “FOMO-inducing” assumes players are powerless over their own expectations. But exclusivity isn’t automatically a dark pattern but the mindset that everything must be owned is what turns it into one.

Plenty of games have limited cosmetics without causing this level of outrage. The difference isn’t the item, it’s the culture around it.

Developers can listen to feedback, sure, but at some point players also have to recognize when their frustration comes from self-imposed pressure. Not every cosmetic needs to be permanent, and not every limited thing is predatory by default.

[sand hawk]

It came off stronger than intended. It is sometimes hard to actually talk over chat without misinterpretations

[silent jackal]

they don't have this outrage, because their entire communities are under the influence of said dark pattern, that they cannot be outraged about it
this, evidently, isn't the case for DE/soulframe's community, exactly because people are speaking up about it

don't say that players are at fault for when a developer actively pursues to pressure people into actively playing their game at all times to not miss out on limited-time items, whether they matter to you or someone else is completely irrelevant

it's not self-imposed, if it literally exploits the human mind and nature

[tired pendant]

I don’t actually think players are powerless or that all exclusivity is evil. I’m fine with limited events, seasonal stuff, “you had to be there” moments where everyone has a clear, fair window to opt in. That’s normal for live games.

What worries me here is the specific type of exclusivity we’re already seeing in Soulframe:

• Eternium Gardens shipped as an instance race that Steve himself said would create “precious spot” issues.
• A cosmetic compensation tied to a technical failure (“you had to be broken at the right time”), not to a choice or an event everyone could reasonably participate in.

DE are the ones who framed Soulframe as “no FOMO / no extreme exclusivity” and made Founder packs long-term for that reason. So this isn’t just players refusing to take responsibility for their feelings — it’s the community noticing that the systems being added don’t really match the philosophy we were sold on. Calling that out isn’t “I must own everything”, it’s “please keep the game aligned with the values you told us to expect.”

And +1 to what Turtle said: once we start talking about who “should be ashamed”, it stops being about design and starts being about each other. People are writing essays here because they care about Soulframe long-term, not because they want to bully a small studio over a flower. If it’s really “just pixels”, then it should also be okay to adjust things so they actually match the no-FOMO philosophy DE has been talking about.

[charred iris]

Just a reminder folks: this isn't a debate thread. There are no winners or losers, and there is no need to create a back and forth. This is a feedback thread. All opinions have value, and all opinions are welcome so long as they follow the server rules.

The point of the feedback thread is to make opinions heard. Please do not try to shut down others's opinions, and please do not try and argue one opinion is more or less valid than another.

If you disagree with an opinion, that's fine, but consider what value voicing disagreement with it would bring before doing so. If an opinion is based on misinformation or a misunderstanding, please feel free to correct that. We have been attempting to correct misconceptions or add needed info where we can in the thread. Opinions are best when well informed, but again are valuable regardless.

Remember: this thread is to show DE your opinions. The rules outline to remain civil and constructive. They want to see what EVERYONE thinks, and while a debate may remain civil, the mentality of "we shall find a solution everyone agrees on and DE will implement that" or "one side must win this debate" are not conductive to a good feedback thread. At the end of the day, the decision will remain in DE's hands. You are given the opportunity to voice your opinion to help inform that decision. Please, do not waste that opportunity arguing.

[serene horizon]

So pixels gather a lot more talk than mechanics and gameplay. Cool

[sand hawk]

Are we allowed to debate or not, I read it a bit conflicting just now

[charred iris]

You are allowed to debate so long as it remains civil per the rules, but this is basically a reminder of what the intent of feedback is. Trying to create a debate to create a "more correct" opinion is not helpful. Addressing the point and discussing is fine, but the mindset we've been seeing is to create a debate to try and argue one side is somehow winning or better, which in turn risks shutting certain opinions out of the discussion. The mindset around a debate should be fostering a more in depth discussion, not trying to "win" or prove a better opinion exists.

[safe gale]

The garden flowers being instance based is kinda bad ngl, I thought all founders are equal, yet I see the faster ones or those that weren't working or had instant access to pc to get on made it extremely unfair to those that weren't able to, I for example am not really able to easily enter the game on founder pack launch, since I only have a steam deck and I barelly know how to install stuff on it.

Being buried so deep in instances because all the "good spots" were taken really feels disrespectful, since the people who plant them in later instances wont ever get seen, who will ever check the instance 346 garden...

I agree with the cursed flower aspect, thats a bad idea, I agree with these people getting farmable resources as a compensation, but a exclusive+ item for something out of people control creates resentment

[true kestrel]

I have ADHD and have debated actually raising this point as it's not a 'lets pity me'. It actually has a lot of positives too and generally I get along just fine. But my brain is a bit quirky. But I think it does affect the way I think about these things.

I've said a lot that my main goal in games is collecting and having a complete collection. That's what I enjoy and avoid games where I know that's not going to be possible. I know I'm an adult and I have control over my own actions. But it's not as easy as 'you just shouldn't care'. ND people are more likely to have this mindset because of the dopamine issues they have or the way their brain works. Some people can't change how they think about things.

So all of the comments ' you shouldn't feel that way'. ' why do you care?'. ' it's a bit sad to have that mindset'. Actually may be because of reasons people don't have control over either. Just another viewpoint

[sand hawk]

Who will check instance 1 though, realistically?

[safe gale]

Thats also a good point, since instance 1 will always be filled

My idea is to have the flower appear in the last instance you played

The oldest flower dissapearing till the player joins another instance

[sand hawk]

No what I mean is, do you think someone* will go into instance 1 in... lets say 2 years, go to every flower and sees "UrticantOdin".... Like what happens then?

[safe gale]

This is like a more visible credits screen ngl

[sand hawk]

What do you get from it though, what is your motivation, you will never know if they saw it or not, I am very curious on what your positive loopback on this is

[safe gale]

The idea that you can be seen by someone is a idea humans generally enjoy

[mellow portal]

yea it will definitely lose relevance in the future but it will always be relevant to us founders, personally idc if people dont see my flower, i might just go back to see it myself after 5 years to think back on how the game evolved since i planted it

[safe gale]

Cave paintings, but also, your point is decent, some people dont care about stuff like that

[sand hawk]

I dont think cave paintings are equal to flowers in a modern RPG. Pretty sure cavemen werent motivated that we see it thousand years later xD

[safe gale]

Thats false tho ? Paintings are sometimes made for future generations to see

For example, animals and hunting them

[sand hawk]

Yes, they serve a reason, flower does not

Cavepainting often were instructions for generations on, or just... paintings. I am just trying to understand what people actually get out of their name being at the top. Would people be angry if its just a credit roll as well?
Your name could be at the bottom, not at the top.

You are still in it though, still part of it, theoretically.

[tired pendant]

For me it doesn’t need a “reason” in the gameplay sense. Lots of things humans make are just about memory and meaning – photos, signatures, memorial walls, etc. The Garden could have been that for founders: a shared place where our little mark lives on, even if only a few people ever notice it.

[cobalt anchor]

At the end we will find out Cerulean is cursed founder being afraid his limited item wont be limited, thus all the hate, and playing it cool

[mellow portal]

all paragon founders are also not equal now with a bunch holding 5 flowers instead of 4, this bothers me more than it should ngl

even if it might seem insignificant

[safe gale]

Thats also stupid, im fine with the flowers being bigger or having more flowers on the same stem, but 4-5 different flowers is ridiculous

[cobalt anchor]

This.

[mellow portal]

i also feel like the garden could've been part of the main map in some way

[short pumice]

+1

[acoustic obsidian]

It should be one flower no matter how many pacts you bought. I don't see a problem with the compensation and I don't see a problem with this at all. I don't know who's going to be looking at this garden and caring who was first 10 years from now or even next month. The only reason I care about Excalibur prime is because it's on the list and I can never check it off.

[royal frigate]

excal prime is not in the codex if you dont own him

[acoustic obsidian]

I didn't say codex

[royal frigate]

what list then?

[acoustic obsidian]

Mine

[royal frigate]

so hows that any different from people having the cursed flower on their list?

[acoustic obsidian]

I don't see the correlation

[sand hawk]

I am a cursed founder and I don't care about the flower, as stated above. I would gladly trade it in for 50 arcs.

[royal frigate]

i think 200 is fair once they fix the gardens

[sand hawk]

Was just me being hyperbole, cause it doesn't have any value to me, it just rots inside me inventory. I don't even feel compensated, actually.

[royal frigate]

thats another valid point of view.

[safe gale]

The only way I agree with him is that Excalibur prime is better than umbra is because you dont need to waste a mod slot to have the passive

[sand hawk]

I just wanted to play and use the new items, fashion myself a bit. I couldn't for several hours and got a flower.

[royal frigate]

Depends what you view as better. That's only if you dont want the passive. Umbra can be used for AFK farming in Index for example while Prime cant.

[royal frigate]

technically you got a harrow chassis if you dont care about the flower lol

[fresh jackal]

The way to actually access the garden already feels like an Easter egg, we're just fine with it because it's new

[royal frigate]

Gardens should be where the factions are imo

to have a reason to go there

[sand hawk]

I don't even know how you access it

[mellow portal]

play the music emote while you're in the nightfold

[bitter crypt]

1. People care about this topic because it sets a very strong precedent for exclusive rewards without player agency.
2. This is excal prime syndrome, where a few people defend it because they have it.
   Human instinct pressures these people to defend what they feel is a 'limited resource'.
   The same people will also be upset if they missed an exclusive item too.

The discussion isn't about flowers: it's about if this is an appropriate way to handle exclusive rewards.

[sand hawk]

I lost Predules Honor and don't care

[silent kernel]

The discussion is also about the design of the Gardens itself tbf.

[lean wolf]

1. Retort to anyone saying "Buts it's pixels":
   #1443714523298009109 message

2. Solution:
   #1443714523298009109 message

3. Retort vs anyone saying we shouldn't be debating:
   #1443714523298009109 message

4. Retort against anyone saying "I got this but I don't want to be apart of the group" and proceed to have said title in their name:
   #1443714523298009109 message

5. Explanation of Recurring Cycle, and an ISSUE that needs to stop being repeated, especially since they specifically said "no FOMO outside of Paragon":
   #1443714523298009109 message

..
..

Kindly read over each Number before replying to ensure that what you add to the conversation has not already been debated or retorted against

(BUT THE DEVS CHOICE) does not count as a viable argument as they again have already assured no such kind of fomo, meaning they directly went back on said promise and thus should do the same for all past iterations of Fomo promises such as "Warframe" since they don't seem to have an issue going back on this promise here is "SoulFrame"

(Cough: Excalibur P. for consoles??)

[bitter crypt]

I think the discussion on this is very diluted.
Won't have an outcome if we don't focus on one problem at a time.

[bitter crypt]

Humans won't read big blocks of text with links btw.
To be convincing is to be concise.
I think we're all on the same side atm.

More like cursed eggs hehe

[sand hawk]

How do you consolidate the people who didn't get anything for hours, arcs?

[lean wolf]

Same way they do it in Warframe when they give out plat, and Mass amounts of forma, same way they gave out the flowers

Because they have an actual list in the games records and filing that shows who where affected

[bitter crypt]

Good points. Consumables as compensation would probably have been the appropriate route.

[lean wolf]

And can still be since this is all digital it can be fixed

[sand hawk]

How many arcs we talking

[lean wolf]

1000 for each person affected

[bitter crypt]

75?

[bitter crypt]

+30% of a founder pack will rile those that didn't get it.

[sand hawk]

Sold to the highest bidder

TOO LATE KES

[bitter crypt]

T-T
lol

[lean wolf]

Then have the flower added to the shop visible to PARAGON founders only as a one time purchase Via arcs

[sand hawk]

Just delete flower, give me 1k arcs

[bitter crypt]

The funny thing is that it can't be taken away, even though it's digital.
It triggers the same reflex as cats that bite when you touch their food.

[lean wolf]

Never said take away their flowers, let them keep them, but instead make the flowers available to all paragon founders, and give the affected with the bug compensation via Arcs

Thus making the flower apart of the Paragon Pack naturally

((Those who already have the flowers would not be able to purchase a second one after the change))

This giving compensation & solving the fomo exclusivity

[sand hawk]

Just delete the garden, imagine the server load of 2130318923 instances of flowers

[bitter crypt]

Makes perfect sense to me
Only negative result: maybe some who had the excusive flower want something to signal the original exclusivity

[bitter crypt]

Wait
A big field would actually be kinda cool

[lean wolf]

Which is a smaller minority than mass who are displeased

[sand hawk]

Make it plantable in your nightfold, let people visit

[lean wolf]

NGL would rather this^

Make the night Fold our own personal and buildable worlds.

Akin to the Genshin teapot

[sand hawk]

add every founder in credit rolls, remove the cursed flower or add it for arcs, give me 1k, gg

riddle solved

[lean wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/hu-tao-genshin-impact-yea-gif-26933180

[dusk vale]

+1, I would love this sm

[cursive galleon]

Probably the best solution, at first I was against arcs as compensation because its essentially handing players a free 20 dollars but, the conversation and overall player sentiment regarding this matter has become way overblown. Let it be a community wide apology, reset “cursed founder” flowers to show Nov 25th, or better yet make it so all flowers show purchase date.

I personally never thought it was a huge deal for either party, cursed or un-cursed. However, I agree with the original argument of the item setting a bad precedent, and on that notion alone… I would rather just rescind the exclusivity of my flower ownership rather than another 2000 of the same recycled arguments thrown into this thread and others like it. I know some cursed founders take pride in being some of the first to support the devs, and take pride in being able to turn a transactional mishap into a lighthearted memory, but at this point the whole thing has just become a bloated toxic mess that will just leave a sore spot for a lot more than the 2500 or so people that “benefited” from the flower.

[ornate loom]

yes

[ornate loom]

Maybe have a monument of founders instead where it lists your purchase order

or a tier list of biggest whales in the game

[sand hawk]

least played, most bought items in the shop tier list

[ornate loom]

Side note, i'd like more reasonable drip for envoys

[lean wolf]

https://tenor.com/view/mastered-ultra-dripstinct-gif-22105651

[still mulch]

I saw someone mention the idea of removing the dates on the flowers and just having our names and I think that's a nice idea as it makes it feel like all founders are together and it's not a big race :))

[cursive galleon]

That’s a pretty good idea, but then the instance number effectively “becomes” the date

Which is why I more behind having the flowers in some type of hidden flower queue that rotates into a few garden instances. That way in 6 months we won’t have 1000 instances lol

[lean wolf]

Just do this and it would solve all our issues and displeasure for the majority

#1443714523298009109 message

[still mulch]

I see your point I think it may also just help anyone who was "cursed" or hit with a zip code/purchasing issue feel less sad about having the wrong dates :))

[sand hawk]

To be fair most cursed founders do not care, otherwise yes

[still mulch]

Lmao very fair! The instances do feel tiny with the amount of founders there are (and will be) it'll be hard for people to even find their gardens

[ornate loom]

i think instances

should rotate

or maybe we separate gardens based on tier
paragons in the upper rotations and the rest in the poors garden

[cursive galleon]

I would agree but we are already at 212 (last time I checked)

Like I said in 6 months who knows how many instances there will be, I can’t speak for the devs but I don’t think they expected so many founders in under a week

[ornate loom]

or maybe add date of purchase to every flower

[ornate loom]

they should have added more levels....

[still mulch]

This seems kinder than the date planted considering it seemed quite a lot of people had an issue getting into the gardens due to bugs

[ornate loom]

yeah

[cursive galleon]

I think rotating flowers/instance + no date/purchase date is the best solution

[still mulch]

I like this idea too!

[ornate loom]

nah, gotta add purchase date

[cursive galleon]

Yeah I wouldn’t mind purchase date at all

[tired pendant]

Also make the cursed flower a first-time login reward going forward that uses your account creation date, and only let it be planted in the Nightfold

[slender briar]

Honestly, I wouldn't even feel slighted if they just added the flower to the arc store without additional compensation to us who got backlogged. We just have it without spending the arcs on it if they do that. If they went that route, though, I would hope they'd put the Prelude Honour talisman in there, too...

[ornate loom]

if htye put the flower in the store gimme 1k arcs and we call it even 😇

[royal frigate]

1K is pushing it

[upper cosmos]

ive persoanlly bought my founders pact day one and it went through fine but to this day the plots are ALL full 24/7 so i currently physically cant plant my flowers

[safe gale]

Why not just do it like this, paragon founder pack people get a stem with 4 growing flowers on it, 3 smaller and 1 bigger at the top, the 3 normal ones, having the 3 smaller flowers be colored in the small packs colors and the big one be yellow, and the cursed flower havers just, dont, they get ingame obtainable items as compensation because thats how you do a compensation

[ornate loom]

the reason they can't is because if people buy 3 lesser packs = 3 flowers

[safe gale]

The problem with the instances is having the flowers cycle every so often though the instances

[royal frigate]

False. compensation doesnt mean exclusive

[safe gale]

Heres another idea, the more packs you have, the bigger the flower

[safe gale]

Thats what I was suggesting tho

Ingame obtainable items

[ornate loom]

let is grow and customize our flower but only 1

[safe gale]

One flower that grows bigger the more packa you have, till you reach paragon tier

[royal frigate]

sorry I misread. Im used to people insisting on the wrong thing

[safe gale]

Let me say again my idea with the flowers, instead of gaining one flower seed per founder pack, you get one flower seed, but if you buy more founder packs, it grows bigger with more flowers

Let's say, you buy the green and red packs, you will have a plant with 2 flowers, one green and one red

If you got all 3 packs without the paragon pack you have a plant with 3 flowers

[royal frigate]

I do wish everyone had one flower to plant.
4 plants makes them less special and having them spread out.
Oh look theres Bobs flower, and another one...

[safe gale]

If you got the paragon pack, a bigger flower above all 3 with a yellowish color appears

[ornate loom]

what if the founder stuff are just additional stems and everyone can plant a version of it in the nightfold that thye grow with their experiences

or maybe that should be a separate tree all together

[royal frigate]

The paragon pack could just have the paragon talisman ephemera effect on the flower

doesnt need a 4th flower

[safe gale]

Actually thats a neat one, have the plant with 3 flowers, but with a golden shine and crap to it

And for the problem with instances, have the garden monthly or every half a month change its instance by 1, let's say you planted in instance 2, in a month/half a month that flower garden will appear in instance 1, the plants in instance 1 go to the lowest instance with planted flowers

The planter will always know what instance the flower is at in a tab or smt

[royal frigate]

a randomizer of sorts is needed one way or another

[safe gale]

Why tho

[royal frigate]

cause theres already hundreds of them

[safe gale]

The rng is not needed tho, it isn't a drop pool or smt, its just there, having it cycle between instances would be better like that than rng

[slender briar]

Assuming the garden won't be redesigned entirely, a single garden instance randomly placing/cycling the flowers (1 per player at any time) is probably the thing fewest people would complain about...

[safe gale]

Maybe once a week would be better ngl

[royal frigate]

well depends how many there are

because if theres many instances doing rotations even once a week might take over a year before the last ones get to see the light

[safe gale]

Imagine going from instance 32 to 124 tho.

[slender briar]

I'd say maybe 30s to 1 min cycle, possibly with a static place to view your own always if you have one placed.

[royal frigate]

that actually sounds great

even 5 min cycle would be ok

[safe gale]

Actually, make it like 20 minutes, so you got time to show it off or smt

10-20 minutes seems fair

[royal frigate]

And the top one is always pinned with your flower

for you

[safe gale]

So, client sided?

[royal frigate]

yeah just for that one instance

everyone gets to save a "favorite"

[safe gale]

Maybe like, put a pot somewhere near the garden where the flower you have can be seen only by you

[slender briar]

I'm convinced there is some sort of compromise possible that most people could be on board with. 🙂

[royal frigate]

but the rest on rotation

yeah im sure a sweet spot can be achieved

[safe gale]

Yeah it can, but the problem is that cursed flower and the instance race

How did DE not think that the cursed flower wont brew resentment

[slender briar]

The arc store for that has been mentioned multiple times. Was focused on the current discussion regarding garden number exclusivity.

[royal frigate]

it was a decision on the fly while they had to deal with 200 others stuff

[safe gale]

Unlike the warframe founder pack, this was complete rng

[royal frigate]

well the instance race would be fixed by the cycling of instances.
As for the cursed flower just make it 100 arcs in the shop. That way founders that do want it can buy it and those that dont care dont. And the people that got delayed keep it for free

i think thats pretty fair

[safe gale]

Maybe make the curse flower something else, like a talisman in your base or smt that you can buy if you are a founder, and you get for free if you had the issue

Cosmetic

[royal frigate]

they cant go back and change it because that would piss another group of people. That ship has kind of sailed. So now we just have to accept its part of the game BUT also make it fair to everyone else that wants it.

[safe gale]

Is the cursed flower out ?

[royal frigate]

yeah

people posted images of it already

[safe gale]

Oh, damn, I thought it wasn't out yet

[hard topaz]

I think it's about time to lock this thread. Plenty of messages have been sent in here, and it seems things got rather aggressive towards people with dissenting opinions at numerous points.