Eternium Garden & Cursed Bloom Compensation – Why this approach worries me

[lapis parrot]

Will the monument be announced with a missing png? 💀

[ornate loom]

you got your spot in instance 1

the original obj

[edgy forge]

I did not.

[gilded oriole]

I don't get it. I had a different bug that isn't receiving any compensation.

[lean wolf]

SIGH, they said the same about Excalibur Prime YET now

Excal Prime currently: Slightly Buffed Excal with a key face

Excal Prime AFTER new Peace: 1st ability) Upon Critical hit amplifies the critical damage of all fire arms for 20s

2nd ability) For each Blade stuck into an enemy Excal Prime weaponizes their life force to grant himself Overguard

3rd ability) Excel Prime releases a Howl of War embracing the shadows of the battle field granting himself higher Status chance and Critical chance while Unseen (15s Invis + AoE enemy Stun)

4th Ability) Embracing the training of the Dax Guardians Excalibur Prime Forces his energy into Two seperate Nikana's Of light allowing him to strike the foes Twice

[ornate loom]

how????? Did you wait or...?

[royal frigate]

its still a collectable and means 5 flowers in the garden instead of 4.
If its not important would have you complained if you got 1 flower less ?

[lapis parrot]

W Excalibur prime

[edgy forge]

I logged the moment it updated and it was full. Got 2 but not 1.

[gilded oriole]

One of the very first founders! Cool, congrats!

[vapid python]

If you waited with planting your flowers it's not DE's fault

[ornate loom]

still top ranked instance that people will visit

[quaint rune]

If I got one less flower than I paid for yes, but I got all the flowers I paid for

Someone else getting a fifth flower does not change that

[royal frigate]

and other people got 5 for the same price so its still unfair

[gilded oriole]

What? Excal prime is tied to affinity the flower is not?

[ornate loom]

the people who got 5 are very rare, most didn't get the paragon

[gilded oriole]

Well Only got 1 total so yes.

[quaint rune]

but I did not pay for 5, I paid for 4

[royal frigate]

how rare those people are is not important

[lapis parrot]

I might ask for a refund after this ngl this put a sour taste in my mouth , there's other games that deserve my goodwill more. It's alpha anyway, so if the refund gets me banned I can always come back when the game is more complete and try it again for free loool

[vapid python]

But we didn't get it for the same price did we? I would have my flowers in instance 3 at this point if it was for the DDOS prevention

[ornate loom]

It is, actually

[lean wolf]

The point I'm explaining is that It starts as "OH DONT WORRY ITS NOT IMPORTANT AND NOT GAME CHANGING" then Poof DE sits on their own foot

[royal frigate]

hows a different instance tied to the price lol

[royal frigate]

no its not its still means some people got 5 flowers

[ornate loom]

you are actling like everyone got 5 flowers when that is not the case, not is it likely that people spread their flowers across 5 instances

[gilded oriole]

I doubt theyre going to tie any xp to the flowers

[royal frigate]

even if 10 people got 5 flowers its still unfair

[vapid python]

Because that's what I paid for at the first minute, to get a specific instance, thanks to the delay I didn't get to plant any

[ornate loom]

^

[royal frigate]

i dont see in the founder pack any statements about paying for getting in a specific instance

[lyric zealot]

I mean, don’t forget all the non exclusive stuff they did for this. I am not saying this doesn’t matter but don’t focus too heavily on the one bad next to the multiple good things that they did

[ornate loom]

It's why most bought early lol

[lean wolf]

It's not about just XP

-_- what don't you understand about Soul frame being a nature driven game and drawing power from nature and with how DE like to tie in every little thing to a progressional emphasis, the flower will grant some kind of unique feature/ability later given their track record

[lapis parrot]

The flower is the surface.

[royal frigate]

but it wasnt promised to anyone. you chosing to buy early is your own choice

[gilded oriole]

Yeah I tried to buy first minute too. Was refreshing that page like crazy lol

[quaint rune]

a fifth flower wasn't promised either, so nothing was lost

[gilded oriole]

I doubt that but with that explanation I understand your train of thought

[royal frigate]

it is because other people got more with the same money

if others got more then I got less. Its basic logic

[vapid python]

And we did and we would've gotten it, because I did het confirmation my payment was gone through. I just never got my stuff until 4 hours later

[ornate loom]

The fault on DE's end is why we couldn't even play for 5 hours, let alone get an instance

This flower shows goodwill and respect to player issues

[vapid python]

This

[quaint rune]

It's not, you can have two things be true at the same time. Yes others got more, No you did not get less than you paid for.

[lapis parrot]

I think the bonus flower that not everyone got is the most beautiful item in the whole founders because everything else is borderline bad looking. We were deprived of the most beautiful item.

[royal frigate]

bugs happen. that doesnt entitle you to anything

[ornate loom]

I have faith that DE will always make amends with the players when it's a mistake on their end

[lyric zealot]

But they’re addressing a lot of the issues being brought up, like they’re fixing the armor as an example. DE is a wonderful company and they are great about communicating and addressing the issues people bring up the vast majority of the time, and it’s important to keep that in mind when something less then ideal happens

[royal frigate]

youre making a emotional argument. they dont owe you anything

[lean wolf]

1000 free ARCS would do the same thing

[gilded oriole]

I think you misunderstand.

Those people didn't get the extra flower because they payed for founders.

They got the extra flower because they got affected by an issue. They did not pay to get the flower with money. They payed with time.

[dusk vale]

^

[vapid python]

This yeah

[ornate loom]

^

[lyric zealot]

They don’t owe everyone the exclusive either with that type of argument tho

[royal frigate]

youre trying to pretend that an exclusive item is the only way they could have repaid them. its not. they could have done 200 arcs and be done with it

[lapis parrot]

And I have the option to wait for them to make it right or refund but I think this time I'm going to refund due to how rushed the whole update was in general. Even the orange man got elected in midrah and built the frigging walls

[royal frigate]

then nobody gets the exclusive im fine with that too

[vapid python]

If I had gotten my founders stuff, and didn't plant in an instance that moment that would've been my own fault, it's that things were beyond the cursed founders control and they get compensation for that

[gilded oriole]

I think giving them this flower is a more fitting compensation than just some in game currency.

Since they were all people who tried to buy first minutes

[ornate loom]

^

[royal frigate]

no its not. an exclusive for waiting a few hours is not fair to the rest of the community

[dusk vale]

so what's your opinion on prelude's honor, then? do you think we all should be given it because others have it and new players dont?

[lyric zealot]

If that is your wish then more power to you, I just wanted to mention cuz ik its easy to let things snowball and ruin other aspects of the game for you

[royal frigate]

sure. make it farmable. i couldnt care less i hate exclusive items

[lyric zealot]

That’s fair

[lapis parrot]

Don't call the updates prelude if you're not gonna hand it out anymore. We're still in prelude no?

[ornate loom]

preludes honor was given because they had their everything force reset

[gilded oriole]

Well, i think it is. We just disagree I guess. Note that I did have to wait 6h myself and I did not get any compensation.

[lean wolf]

. _. Game currency would have been better then due to the issue anyone that has the largest founders pack should be given the option to buy the cursed flower for ARCs

This acknowledges the issue people suffered and ensures all the higher and paying founders get all the exclusives

[dusk vale]

its flavor text. they could change the name at any time. it was a thank you to early supporters and account resets

[ornate loom]

This shows DE respects our time and commitment

[lapis parrot]

I had my materials reset multiple times and I haven't received anything?

[lean wolf]

^

[lyric zealot]

You should’ve

[royal frigate]

a lot of people had to wait due to different bugs and they wont get compensation. which is another layer of unfairness. the flower is simply not a good solution

[lapis parrot]

I should've yes and I didn't

[vapid python]

It would not, game currency gives an ingame advantage that would cause much more outrage.

[lyric zealot]

That’s something to contact them about

[ornate loom]

you should defend your rights and contact them

[gilded oriole]

It is yes. And I'm ok with that. As one of those people myself.

[royal frigate]

i literally made a post about getting my gear wiped and havent got anything either

[lyric zealot]

Tbf they will likely address it eventually, they got a lot going on rn

[lean wolf]

No it wouldn't as game currency has been given as compensation for worse issues than this multiple times already, and did not cause an outrage even slightly

[royal frigate]

you may be ok with unfairness but we arent.

[charred iris]

Was this in p6/7 as a full account reset, or in p9 and 10 due to the material duplication?

[ornate loom]

❤️

[vapid python]

Since which prelude have you played? Because the talisman is from the ones that played pre-preludes 8 iirc

[lapis parrot]

Let's just say I haven't gotten anything

[gilded oriole]

I think there's a mixed bag in here although clearly there are also many people here who did get the flower, since they have all changed their names

[royal frigate]

was like back in january

[tired pendant]

I don’t begrudge cursed founders getting something for the mess, my issue is how it’s being done. In most games, when launch bugs hit, compensation is neutral (currency, mats, boosts) because you can’t ever perfectly track who was blocked and you don’t end up creating a permanent collectible only a slice of accounts ever had a fair shot at.

Saying “they paid with time” is exactly why Arcs/materials/fast-travel seeds would make more sense – that kind of comp helps people recover lost time. A unique, permanent flower just becomes another “you had to be broken at the right time” badge layered on top of a Garden system that already felt like a race for early instances.

I’m not asking for zero exclusivity in Soulframe. I’m asking that compensation for bugs and payment issues doesn’t turn into more FOMO and more tiers among founders. Fix the Garden design, keep compensation neutral, and you avoid this whole cursed vs blessed divide entirely.

[lyric zealot]

I don’t think that was old enough but idk

[lean wolf]

EXACTLY!!

[lyric zealot]

Idk the time frames on the updates

[lapis parrot]

P10 and 11 multiple times but I did not have duped materials. One of the times it happened I barely had 17 sappheline. But it was multiple times

[dense dune]

it was 5 hours that could have been avoided by waiting a bit to buy the pack, its like willingly participating in a bad sales rush and getting hurt when you know what you want will be in stock and the same price for the next 3 months. it sucks that it happened but you should have expected it and don't deserve a reward for not.

[gilded oriole]

That is better put than your messages at the top of the thread tbh

[royal frigate]

still my point remains the same. exclusive stuff for not doing anything that you have no control over is unfair. everyone should be able to get the talisman thing and the flower. even if its at a later date

[lyric zealot]

Then you didn’t get it cuz no full account reset

[charred iris]

Material downcaps were set in p10 and p11 due to a duplication bug. These were not the complete account resets associated with Preludes Honours. Hope this clears things up a bit.

[royal frigate]

good take

[lyric zealot]

There’s a high probability they will give out exclusives for players who were apart of preludes by time game is fully out, ik it doesn’t fully address the situation but it does help to some level

[lapis parrot]

Yea it clears up things nicely. And that is some people have exclusives and some people don't. I had materials reset and bought founders yet I have neither a reward for resets or because my payment didn't go trough properly

I understand well

[vapid python]

So you didn't play before preludes 8. So you're not eligible for the talisman

[royal frigate]

thats the issue they arent being transparent about their plans so people are going to be frustrated with FOMO / exclusive items

[ornate loom]

it's literally the same you are saying you hate that some people got something you didn't imagine if people affected got premium currency, you'd go crazy lol

[lapis parrot]

I'm sorry I registered my email and never got a key before prelude 9, my apologies

[royal frigate]

i can buy premium currency. let me buy the flower

[lean wolf]

No we wouldn't as DE has done that before and no one ever bats an eye

[lyric zealot]

I mean just by buying founders you got exclusive items, so idk how to take your statement here

[shadow smelt]

Mechanically, the preludes honour has never been anything special, it has always been a statistical clone of the +x+x+x mote/talisman. It used to be a clone of the +1+1+1 when it was the mote, and now it's a clone of the circade +3+3+3 talisman. It's a visual thing for people who have, as the description says, lost everything, but the lousy mote/talisman.

[lean wolf]

Currency is Temporary, ITEMS are eternal

[lapis parrot]

I didn't know we hand exclusivity trough lottery in soulframe, I could've scrapped a key if I knew trough unsavoury methods like many probably did

[royal frigate]

they gave out forma before as compensations. they never gave out Tau shards as compensations.

[vapid python]

Same here? Quit whining, that's part of the expierence, you can't have everything. You're not eligible for something you didn't expierence.

[lyric zealot]

True but I doubt DE has, all the plans figured out yet

[lapis parrot]

But I waited for my key

[lyric zealot]

So did others

[lapis parrot]

They still call the updates preludes as well

[vapid python]

So did everyone

[lapis parrot]

I expect them to call them something else starting update 13

[lyric zealot]

Because were still in preludes

[vapid python]

Why???

[lyric zealot]

They’re not gonna call the bird every instance of entire account reset

[royal frigate]

its not part of the experience LOL
They literally had no idea it was going to happen why are you acting like it was all according to plan

[vapid python]

I was talking.... about... the resets and the talisman....

[royal frigate]

ah ok

[fluid cipher]

Sill think expanding replication to the honor/flower is probably the easiest fix for now ... they can figure out the gardens other quirks after

[lyric zealot]

Ima be real it’s much more likely the super combative attitude but I don’t know cuz not a mod

[austere coyote]

you're allowed to have an opinion, but you've been told not to bring up moderation in public, this message is another example of that

[lyric zealot]

Either way, I hope all of this gets figured out

[obtuse geyser]

I feel like this thread continuing to be open isn't helping ahahah

[vapid python]

If they close it it will be opened by someone else

Like a hydra

[obtuse geyser]

😔 true

[vapid python]

Cut it off, two more shall take its place 💔

[tired pendant]

Replication only creates new weirdness (people wearing or planting items tied to someone else’s bug moment/name) without fixing the underlying issues:
– the Garden being designed like an instance race.
– compensation for technical problems turning into permanent collectibles instead of neutral catch-up (Arcs, fast-travel seeds, etc.).

[dense dune]

shame the game doesnt have forma for them to give out.

[royal frigate]

they could have given out moonsteel thread

anything but exclusives

[quaint rune]

The compensation for technical problems is what I said earlier. I love Steve for wanting to do a make good immediately, and I love that he wants to commemorate big things in the game history, but his love for exclusive items is disheartening.

[dense dune]

im on the side of them giving out arcs/moonsteel but i can understand some people not wanting moonsteel.

[royal frigate]

free is free

[fluid cipher]

Yeah but you'd still get the item, so you're not missing out on it still is the point. Just have the name hidden in the description not on the item itself in this case.

[royal frigate]

im fine with any solution, waiting, farming, paying, replication etc as long as its not exclusive

[fluid cipher]

I'd love to be able to replicate the honor for example because I know someone who likes birds and would love that necklace lol

[tired pendant]

I get what you mean from a pure “do I own the cosmetic or not” angle, replication helps. But even if the name is hidden, the whole identity of the item is still “bug-day compensation”, so turning it into a chain-trade thing doesn’t really fix that it started as a “you were broken at the right time” reward. It also just swaps RNG access for social access (you now need to know someone cursed), which is still another kind of gate. That’s why I’d rather see the Garden itself fixed and compensation stay neutral instead of building more systems around this one edge-case cosmetic.

[royal frigate]

neither should be in the game the way they are

[vapid python]

Why can't you just have people who expierenced the resets have their exclusive?

[royal frigate]

cause its unfair to the rest

[sonic forum]

That'd be nice, yes

[fluid cipher]

i experienced it, i wanna share mine. just like id share the bloom

[vapid python]

Oh no, the horror, you didn't get something people in P6/7 did. Will you have the same reaction when preludes end, we all get an exclusive and the people 10 years from now will not? The issue with the warframe founders was Excalibur prime. Not the extra sigils or glyphs founders got.

[royal frigate]

bad faith argument. is it "the horror" for everyone else to get it ?

again double standards

[fluid cipher]

as for the garden itself, yes it needs work. im just talking exclusively of the flower/honor & pushing them into the replication system when it goes live

[quaint rune]

There's also no issues with the trials exclusives in Warframe

[tired pendant]

The core problem is still the Garden design itself – the instance race, visibility, and how it was set up from the start. I really don’t want to see more layers of systems and edge-case exclusives built on top of something that already feels bad; I’d rather they fix the Garden first.

[fluid cipher]

could even just go as far as not showing the name at all on the honor/flower, just leave the GS with that since it was advertised that way

[vapid python]

Neither of those two are anything that give any progression in the game whatsoever, unlike the paragon.

[royal frigate]

doesnt have to give progress to be something people want. Mag and frost heirloom are skins are you going to argue those have no value cause they dont give progress?

value isnt defined exclusively by progress

[vapid python]

Yes, my friend has them, I do not, am I happy for him he got them yes? Do I recognize they will not get back and I'll never get them? Also yes. That's just how it is.

[royal frigate]

yes but you could have bought them. i cant buy the flower

so its not the same

[vapid python]

And it's widely different to argue a 80 dollar cosmetic skin is the same as a flower

[royal frigate]

why?

your argument was that it gives no progress

now youre moving the goal post

[vapid python]

And I don't demand that I'm entitled to mag or frost

[royal frigate]

i mean you were if you wanted to buy it back then

[vapid python]

As by duplication mechanic as the paragon got

[royal frigate]

nothing stopped you

cosmetics / skins / titles / etc all have value so lets stop pretending they dont just because its not specifically tied to progress

[quaint rune]

Can I be honest with something...I think the heirloom skins are more reasonable than the talisman and flower. If you had the money and were playing at the right time you could have gotten the heirloom skins.

I was in this discord trying for codes for 2 years, but because of luck I wasn't able to get into the game to get the talisman. It was pure luck that others are getting the flower. I was at work so I couldn't buy founders the first minute, otherwise I would have.

[royal frigate]

they are more reasonable because you had MONTHS to buy them

not a minute

[quaint rune]

Yeah that's what I mean, it wasn't a lottery system like the talisman and flower were

[royal frigate]

exactly

[obtuse geyser]

This is just exhausting to read, eheheh. Honestly at this point I hope DE does more niche item drops like this.

I should probably actually go and plant my flower at some point, but its no rush.

[heady crow]

i mean the ideal solution would either be a eternium wipe or a rework of the system altogether into something that isn't as first come first serve based. but obviously both aren't exactly feasible short term solutions and there's a lot of running emotions rn from both sides. I think giving the cursed founders something to appease them was probably the best middle ground solution that could be found given the circumstances

[royal frigate]

a rework or change of the gardens is needed eitherway

[royal frigate]

but it didn't have to be an exclusive because now it just created a new problem while not fixing the old one. could have been moonsteel thread for example

[heady crow]

yeah that would've been a slap in the face

[royal frigate]

and an exclusive is a slap in the face to everyone else

[heady crow]

the early birds essentially got screwed of any opportunity to plant their flower in anything that isn't like instance 139

and watched while people were just planting lol

[royal frigate]

that doesnt mean they should get an exclusive for it

[heady crow]

It doesn't mean they shouldn't get something unique

[royal frigate]

it does

its unfair to everyone else

[heady crow]

hard disagree. They lost out on a once in a lifetime thing. so it's no issue to me imo if they get something equally as impactful

[dusk vale]

this reads like those kids in high school who find out you have a pack of gum

[royal frigate]

And everyone else is losing by not getting an exclusive so hows that fixing anything?

[heady crow]

it's not fixing it's just the best middle ground given the circumstances

[fair kraken]

Still going huh

[novel pumice]

Yeaaah, this should have been closed a long time ago

[heady crow]

It really is such a non-issue lol

[royal frigate]

middle ground is not giving extra stuff to people that the rest dont have

if its really such a non issue then whats the problem if everyone gets it?

[heady crow]

Everyone else got the opportunity to plant in a relay that actually means something. Cursed founders didnt

[royal frigate]

ok and? that entitles you to special treatment?

[heady crow]

a cosmetic skin isn't special treatment it's a 'we're sorry' lol

[dusk vale]

Those who got into the initial relays received the "special treatment" we were hoping to get. By being delayed and waiting, we were robbed of that.

[royal frigate]

you can wrap it up in whatever fancy words you wanna call it. it doesnt change the fact that its an exclusive

[novel pumice]

@royal frigate bro, you've been here since yesterday, give it a break.

[royal frigate]

Again two wrongs dont make a right. You dont fix the issue people had by not being able to login by gifting them an exclusive that not only doesn't fix the garden issue but it also punishes everyone else in the game.

[vapid python]

You're the one who keeps demanding everyone else gets something that affected cursed founders. Don't go calling us entitled

[heady crow]

I would've rather had the chance to plant in a relay that matters to me than a special skin. I'd trade you or anyone for a spot in #13 lol

[royal frigate]

yes im asking for equality

[dusk vale]

I feel the term "punish" is a bit harsh, as if you simply didnt know about the cosmetic it wouldn't change your life at all. It's a different hex color model in a location locked behind a minigame. Many players later won't even know what happened nor will ever see the cursed flowers in their playtime.

[vapid python]

Same, me and my friend really wanted to plant at least 1 flower in instance 3

[heady crow]

equality would mean a full wipe of eternium and that sucks for everyone. a special skin over an event that caused a lot of people pain is literally such a harmless thing to do man

[royal frigate]

you can call it harsh it is what it is. most people get 1 less flower. some have 5.

[heady crow]

I have a special flower, great, still can't plant it anywhere that means anything to me lol

[royal frigate]

explain why others having it is a problem then

how would that change your gameplay

[heady crow]

Because then we just got screwed with nothing to show for it

[dusk vale]

how does not having this flower change your gameplay?

[royal frigate]

so its literally just gatekeeping

[vapid python]

Because they are not the ones getting screwed over

[royal frigate]

it changes cause i cant plant it what kind if question is that lol

[vapid python]

That's not what gatekeeping means...

[heady crow]

we were locked out of a gate for a whole day while everyone else was having fun lol. I don't mean to sound like 'my pain is greater than yours' but ah, it is.

[royal frigate]

again getting screwed over doesnt entitle you to a special prize let alone an exclusive one

[vapid python]

Not. Up. To. You.

[dusk vale]

so you are telling me that you are in agony right now, harmed in game and ruining your experience, because another player has a cosmetic you don't have?

[royal frigate]

again bringing up that argument youre spinning in circles and hiding behind "but its what DE decided"

[fair kraken]

I think it's time to escalate this beyond moderators

[heady crow]

I've no doubt they're watching and already factored all this in lol

[cursive moat]

Envoys I see this thread has once again devolved into just arguing back and forth and no new info or feedback is being added

We have locked this feedback thread for now as there is little benefit in endless repeats of the same arguments. The general points of feedback regarding the garden system, Cursed bloom and exclusivity have been noted and passed along to the community team. Thank you for your continued feedback Envoys!

[lethal escarp]

We are unlocking this again so folks can provide their feedback.

As a reminder, please keep your opinions and feedback directed on the game and not each other. Remain respectful of other views.

[lyric finch]

https://tenor.com/view/running-perfect-loop-spongebob-squarepants-anchovies-gif-16129585

[lethal escarp]

Well I sincerely hope not…||what is this, Black Friday circa 2001?||

[lyric finch]

at least the sardines are on a line hehe

[wind fog]

I can't make no sense of this decision and I don't know if we ever will but this is a sad day for how this whole thing was handled. And again, I didn't even plant my flower and I wouldn't be excited to have received one today. It's mainly an issue with how the situation was handled. I don't know how many people weren't able to buy because of the zip code/currency bug, but I feel these people just got wrecked today, and this will have a impact on the community. You don't need to @ me, I'm out ✌🏻

[lament pilot]

I wasnt able to plant on the day i purchased founders due to filled gardens/buggy interface. A bit miffed others will get their true date added retroactively ngl

[tired pendant]

🔁

[analog sun]

tbh every flower should have been with the true date u joined and the cursed flower just a special extra flower

[edgy forge]

What a dumpster fire this garden thing has been so far... Am out as well. Feels like this entire thing is like trying to talk with the wall. My only wish is they at least noticed and will reconsider before doing anything similar in the future.

[cobalt anchor]

The cursed flower was placed in the grave of soulframe ?

[scarlet cypress]

looks like they started going out

[grizzled bloom]

Seems like DE is still pushing through with cursed flower regardless of the community sentiment about it. Does feedback even matter at this point?

[scarlet cypress]

its not too late for them to make it obtainable in other ways

[cobalt anchor]

let those cursed plant their flower, remove the whole garden thingy and make a wall of fame with running names

[scarlet cypress]

make it so if you find a cursed flower in the garden you can take a seed and craft it into the flower and it says like "DemonScarfs Cursed Marifold", you can then plant it like normal and it functions like normal

[spring wolf]

That defeats the whole purpose of the flowers tho, then you're just spreading your own name, i think it should just be tradeable like greatswords, or given to other players for free unlike the greatsword, then they should put plants in nightfold and have them have a featured randomized set selected out of the current large pool that are always at the top just like they do clans with favorites

[vapid python]

This is what they look like ingame btw

[scarlet cypress]

how is it spreading my name?

when they plant it it shows their own name

it only shows mine in the nventory

[spring wolf]

I think i took your msg wrong, i thought you meant the person you get the cursed flower from has their name on it as well

[scarlet cypress]

nah

that would be pointless 😂

[spring wolf]

Ye xD

Heyyyy you can see my name in that ss :3

XDDDD

[vapid python]

Maybe I stalked u 👀

[spring wolf]

LOL

[vapid python]

I haven't planted mine yet. Waiting for my friend who really wants it in instance 333 for some reason

[spring wolf]

Lucky number, like 777

[vapid python]

We planted our regulars in 133

[dark field]

i will say that i like this idea quite a bit.
as it is right now it just makes me feel bad/disappointed about missing out on something that is out of everyone's control. and hope DE does not do something like this again

[scarlet cypress]

honestly id like to say they wont, but this is the second time now

they are setting a precedent at this point

[edgy forge]

Cursed founders should wait for instance 666 to plant it all black.

[quaint rune]

I think DE were very careful in the wording they used in the patch notes, "For those Cursed by struggle and strife upon Founders' first light, a Cursed Marifold Bloom will soon find its way into your wares." it does not say that the cursed marifold is exclusive to them, just that they are receiving one. They could be obtainable later.

[vapid python]

I think alot invaded 109

[spring wolf]

Ye we took over 109 😛

[analog sun]

i hope we can plant our flowers also in nightfold i want a lil flower garden there

[raw pike]

i want to believe, but i don't think they're gonna do that

[small lark]

This is my hope. I'm just holding onto my flowers for the time being

[quaint rune]

I doubt they will as well, but they have left themselves options rather than hard comitment and binding wording.

[raw pike]

if they let people plant their flowers in the nightfold i'd be super mad, because that means that i could've waited to plant them there without any info from them that they were eventually gonna implement that

[quaint rune]

I imagine if they introduce that it would be the ability to unplant your flowers as well

[calm shore]

Nice for those that got the cursed flower 🙂 don't mind really. They were affected and get a small compensation for it

[lucid viper]

I would assume they would allow people to plant in both if that was the case but who knows really.

[analog sun]

oh omg i didnt think about that, i planted mine in the garden i just hope u can plant them again if they give us a nightfold garden

[raw pike]

this is what upsets me most tbh

[analog sun]

+1
that would be nice

[raw pike]

i COULD have planted on the 25th, but a bug literally prevented me from doing so

[calm shore]

Oh that does suck 😕

[raw pike]

that genuinely annoyed me

i know it's just a number, but it's just how i feel

cursed founders get to have their dates fixed, but not founders who literally couldn't plant on the 25th due to a bug

[quaint rune]

They really should just make all the dates retroactive to purchase date rather than just the cursed ones

[raw pike]

this bug to be exact https://discord.com/channels/998758139405029478/1443055033083105280

[analog sun]

i would wanted the flowers to show ur joining date not purchase/plant date

[quaint rune]

that would be cool yeah, account creation date

[raw pike]

this is the one, MAJOR gripe i have about how all of this was handled

not the cursed flower, i don't mind that one bit

just that

[lucid viper]

I would have preferred to see players get a cursed variant of the flower they purchased. So if you got the sirin pack, you would get a cursed variant of the larklette bloom and etc. It just confuses me that cursed founders got a recolored paragon flower even if they only purchased sirin, tethren or oscelda. I liked being able to see the flower type variations in the gardens and seeing how everyone supported in their own way. But maybe that is just me.

[mellow portal]

with just an exclusive flower, DE have now divided the founders... i saw that cursed marigold in a garden earlier and it looked really nice, the black and gold, wish i had that but now i feel like i missed out... and on one hand i also have the prelude honour, which i wish everyone playing preludes rn should have because that just makes sense as a badge representing people who are playing early to test and stuff, yet that has also divided us into the early players and the early Early players...

[raw pike]

i'm just kind of disappointed i guess

not mad or anything, i just think this could have been done a lot better. for everyone.

i hope they listen

that's all i have to say

[mellow portal]

op's idea is kinda nice tho, plant in your nightfold, it shows up in garden, rotating

im certain they will see this tho, i mean this post already has over 3k comments lol

definitely not a non issue if such a topic is creating so much engagement

[lucid viper]

There has been a lot of ideas but the main two I am seeing repeating is a rotating garden so "where" you plant doesn't really matter and getting to see your flowers in your nightfold in addition to them being in the garden. I think both are good ideas.

[heady crow]

its genuinely crazy how a single cosmetic has made people go so feral

[indigo cipher]

Not caught up on this one, so anyone can put a flower in the garden but paragons have a black and gold one?

[mellow portal]

doesn't matter how big or small it is, exclusivity is exclusivity and given the situation that formed it, it is very apparent why people would feel the way they do

[mellow portal]

long story short, from what i understand, people who bought founders day 1 had some issue with their purchase and they are now getting an exlusive flower as compensation

[indigo cipher]

lol why though

Damn that’s why they say that patience is a virtue huh

[lucid viper]

So anyone who has bought a founders pack can place one in the garden. The flower you get is based on what pack you buy, but if you get paragon you get all 4 flowers. However, on launch there was a bug and backlog so people were not able to plant or were not getting what they purchased. So DE decided that the "cursed founders" who were effected by it would get a repainted version of the paragon marigold flower called the cursed marigold as compensation for the issues at launch to plant in the garden.

[ivory parcel]

i disagree, they promised to have no fomo and broke that promise multiple times now. the problem? it's not the cosmetics, it's what they said and promised to do

[indigo cipher]

Ahhh okay that makes sense. It actually seems like a fun thing that they did that, but I can see why people would be upset

[mellow portal]

doesnt matter if the cursed marigold is a compensation item because now it might as well be a day 1 founder exclusive with how the situation has devolved

[indigo cipher]

Honestly even though I don’t mind, I do agree they should have not created an unnecessary item such as the cursed flower whatever

Seems silly imo

[mellow portal]

yea couldve just sent the affected people some in game currency but besides that, like others mentioned, i do think the garden needs to be reworked

[indigo cipher]

Or just nothing and a just a “woops sorry, it’s prealpha issues are bound to happen”

[quaint rune]

I don't think nothing is the right answer, alpha or not once you take someone's money there's a certain expectation.

[heady crow]

I feel like that's drastically underselling it. People missed out on a once in a lifetime opportunity. The way people are feeling about cursed flowers now, is how we felt when we were punished for being early and watching everyone take up all the early plots.

like I don't think the cursed flowers were a perfect solution

but there isn't one

[mellow portal]

pretty much, the situation has been recreated in a way

and now they'll compensate the non cursed founders with a "blessed marigold" and we become blessed founders xD that would be hilarious

[heady crow]

honestly I think this is probably just gonna go the way of the heirloom packs, it'll quietly fade once people forget about it and move on. besides now that the cursed blooms have actually been delivered that makes this situation much more complicated

[quaint rune]

The compensation wasn't for plot number, if it was, they would have done a compensation when the game hard stuck when you tried to scroll down the gardens that night.

[heady crow]

because now they'd need to actively make the decision to remove the flowers they've already delivered and say woops too bad

[lucid viper]

I was one of the people who bought my paragon pack within 10 minutes of the launch but was not effected by the backlog. However, if the garden hadn't been a "speed race" to plant, while people would have been still upset with the backlog, the cursed marifold probably wouldn't have been necessary. I truly believe that DE should have just refunded all of the seeds, rehauled the entire garden based on community feedback and then reopen the garden and the date on the flower is when you purchased your pack, not when you planted. Adding the cursed marifold I feel is only dividing the community even more over this and it is upsetting to see.

[indigo cipher]

Or give more cursed flowers

[mellow portal]

or just give it to all founders

[heady crow]

so that leaves the 'woops too bad'

[quaint rune]

They can use the flowers for other things, the patch notes were very careful to not word them in a way that makes them exclusive to the cursed founders

[heady crow]

and one group still feeling horribly trashed

[ivory parcel]

they could've just easily fixed this with the rotating garden ideas and those who bought paragon can choose/change to plant the cursed marigold or the default one. the cursed founders still have 1 extra flower anyway

[quaint rune]

IMO rotating garden after the fact doesn't fix things, I would be upset if I lose my garden 67 and garden 69 plots

I had to stay up all night to get garden 69

[mellow portal]

nice

[heady crow]

I mean it's not even like they intentionally created a fomo situation. They tried to make reparations with a group of people that had something horrible happen to them. like people legit took PTO for this just to watch as the system not only locked them out but to watch people who were in line after them pick up the good eternium plots. like I didn't even get a single of my TEN lucky numbers lol

literally punished for being early to support the game

[mellow portal]

and i feel punished i didnt get a cool black flower cause i wasnt early, i bought on the 27th lol, its really a stupid situation to be in

[heady crow]

it's kind of damned if you do damned if you don't situation for DE to be in tbh.

[ivory parcel]

it's early alpha, problems are expected and creating another exclusives doesn't fix it. Those people who were affected was expecting to get what's in the list, not pushing DE to make another exclusives just for them

[heady crow]

theres a difference between 'problems to be expected' and 'missed out once in a lifetime opportunity & we're not gonna do anything to fix it for you'

[indigo cipher]

Are you a cursed one @heady crow

[heady crow]

I am I just don't put it in my username lol

[lyric zealot]

I love that this got reopened and immediately has the same back and forths lol

[quaint rune]

Imagine it's not DE, you give 100 dollars to a game dev, and don't get what you're expecting with a promise that it's coming soon don't worry.

[ivory parcel]

and the root problems are back with the garden position, creating a fomo

[heady crow]

like the cosmetic isn't even the most important part for me I'd rather have another chance to plant in one of the instances I was robbed of. I'd gladly trade it for that

but that's not feasible

neither is a full wipe

[indigo cipher]

Yeah well no more wipes

I haven’t even planted and I was day 1 paragon

Well it just came out right like 2 days ago

[heady crow]

But the main difference is you would've had the opportunity to, assuming you were early but not too early lol

cursed founders never had the opportunity full stop

[quaint rune]

But also not too early as the first minute people got through, it was just after Xsolla deemed it a DDOS attack that got caught

[ivory parcel]

well those who can't evenn purchase it because of the web problems are also never had the opportunity full stop

[heady crow]

relays were were full from 1 to 30 by the time our founders items were delivered and then the server list bug happened, so we had to wait overnight for a fix - and by that time we were already onto the 100s

[quaint rune]

Also what about those in Australia or countries that don't have 5 number zip codes, they never got the chance

[quaint rune]

I got into 69 yesterday morning, the server bug was everyone not founders,

[ivory parcel]

let's just go back to root of the problem here. They promise no fomo, but they created multple. Simple as that

[quaint rune]

Everyone had plenty of time to get into any plot 32+ it really slowed after that

even 67 was open for like 3 hours

69 was open for like an hour

[potent rain]

iirc that happened in less than 3 hours

maybe 4

[heady crow]

it wasn't like the heirloom packs though, it was more like a honor that was bestowed. like not everyone gets a congressional medal from congress

[quaint rune]

nah, it took 4 hours to get to 32, because around the time the founders were manually released from the shadow realm, the game failed to create instance 33

[potent rain]

I personally couldnt get past 24, saw others unable to get past 28

[heady crow]

I was stuck at 31 I think lol

[quaint rune]

yeah we couldn't scroll past 28, but the bug was that it couldn't create instance 33

[potent rain]

well doesnt really matter if others were there if they couldnt be assessed yeah? or was a workaround found at the time

or are you saying the scroll issue happened because of the fact that it couldnt go past 33

[quaint rune]

the game couldn't create instance 33 and that is what bugged the gardens

the scroll issue was because of it

[potent rain]

good to know appreciated

[quaint rune]

It then took another 37ish hours to get to 69

[potent rain]

someone needs to do the maths of this im very curious of the actual rate that it was filled, dont know the info like amount of slots per garden and what not to do so myself

[quaint rune]

after that there was a bug where the server decided to create new instance after new instance wwithout waiting for the previous ones to fill which is why we have so many

[ivory parcel]

look it's easy to say something like that, because you just said you're a cursed founder and don't really feel the frustration because you got compensated. So please stop being insensitive and saying "it's crazy how a single cosmetic making everyone feral" when in reality they broke a promise. So no it's not crazy to be mad about these things, the only fomo that most people were expecting was just the founder packs

[sacred pumice]

tbh founders packs aren't really fomo either

[potent rain]

part of the issue, one of the most exclusive parts of the pack is the flower

[ivory parcel]

the garden, the cursed flower, the mote from reseting

[sacred pumice]

I'm not here to argue with you guys about those things lol, I was agreeing with Hobos

[quaint rune]

I know the data points I have, it was around 8:30pm Eastern time on the 25th that the bug occured stopping everyone from scrolling down, it was at 32 at the time, around 5:30pm on the 26th it was fixed and you could now plant in instances above 32, around 4am on the 27th garden 69 opened.

[austere coyote]

just a reminder to try not to be hostile with each other here, please

[potent rain]

couldve given one of the greatswords maybe to alleviate the time cursed players missed out on grinding

that couldve been cool

or talisman

[sacred pumice]

wish there were reacts, but %100

[potent rain]

or screw it give them all the new totems that wouldve been well and truly worthwhile

[heady crow]

literally nobody cared that cursed founders were actively being robbed, and when people say 'eh just give them moonsteel thread' that's quite the slap in the face to us. I think there frankly just isn't a surefire way to make anybody happy here, and DE went with the most middle ground option they could. It's a shit situation through and through, but none of the suggestions so far would do anything to address it

i don't think it gets any clearer - nothing short of a mulligan and full wipe OR rework of eternium entirely would be completely, 100% fair to everyone, and that's just not going to happen

[quaint rune]

I mean, any other company, currency is the go to make good, lol.

[heady crow]

yeah and i dont blame DE for trying to take a more personalized approach to make things right, even if they miss once in awhile

they're not 'any other company' and they make it a point to try not to be

[potent rain]

arcs also werent available until p12, and have genuine value in the game with how much you can buy with them

[quaint rune]

That's the only reason the founders issue wasn't a bigger deal, like i said earlier, any other company it might have been the death of the company

[strange beacon]

[heady crow]

i mean lets say they give the flowers out to eveyone, now it becomes a 'well now how are you gonna make it up?' situation and it just doesn't get any easier of a decision to make for them. they're honestly probably just gonna treat this like the frost/mag heirloom and let it fizzle out - and i think that's the best approach.

given their options*

[potent rain]

they already are maintaining that cursed flowers are staying going off the hotfix notes, the most likely scenario is nothing happens

[quaint rune]

They don't have to make it up, you got the flower exclusive for you x-many days and got it for free without having to do y to get it.

[potent rain]

also allowed you to have time to place cursed flower whereever you want before anyone else could have it

the exact issue that a lot of cursed players had

[quaint rune]

I don't think they'll give it out for free to everyone, I think it'll show up in an event somewhere.

[lyric zealot]

Tbf resetting the entire thing would create just as much of an uproar since it starts the same cycle of people getting mad cuz they lost their prime spot

[heady crow]

at that point at least it's fair game - everyone's in now. wipe it and plan a date.

[potent rain]

but uproar of how many, shouldnt the majority of the community matter more than a small minority assuming thats all it is

[lyric zealot]

An issue with a big community is people are always going to whine

[quaint rune]

I already spent 11 hours of my life focused on getting garden 69, how is that fair to do a reset and make me do it again?

[potent rain]

how is it decided whos opinion matters more in a situation thats so devisive

[lyric zealot]

But it’s literally a minority arguing about the cursed flower from both sides

So that doesn’t really hold up

[heady crow]

if DE asked me to give up my cursed flower for even just a fair chance at one of the early plots, or at least a number that actually matters to me, i'd give it up in a heartbeat

[lyric zealot]

Ive seen the same 10 people arguing here for days

[potent rain]

because you shouldnt have needed to do so in the first place would be my arguement

[lyric zealot]

There isn’t really a majority of people giving a crap about this flower

[quaint rune]

Yeah, but I did, and there is no turning the clock back now.

[heady crow]

also this. i bet if you ctrl f'd on the names here the same few names would make up a lot of the replies. its literally just infinite bickering neither side can understand why the other is so upset, or they do understand and frankly just don't care/feel like they're justified

[potent rain]

so you would rather keep it the same instead of having everyones crediting being equal, because of the time you invested. not targeting you genuine question

[quaint rune]

I need something to do while typing up game dialogue 🙁

[ivory parcel]

they really created a huge problem with the garden

[lyric zealot]

Lol

[charred iris]

The perspective of "who's opinion matters more" may be the wrong framework to approach this from, as at the end of the day this is the Feedback thread, nothing more. All opinions have value. All feedback has value. DE will take that feedback and decide how they want to proceed.

[lyric zealot]

Doctor Feedback

Hehehe

[heady crow]

the garden system is ultimately the biggest flaw. it needs a complete wipe or redesign on something that isn't first come first serve based

[lyric zealot]

Sorry

[potent rain]

I agree, yet its the framework that most people are approaching it with instead of how it could be resolved

[quaint rune]

I would, because mine wasn't luck, mine was an investment of time. I got garden 69 because I dedicated time to watch the gardens. And it wasn't even a race like the first instances were, garden 69 was open for over an hour

[lyric zealot]

I think the whole reset would just, change what people fought over and doesn’t really address a lot

[potent rain]

reset wouldnt help at all, would need to be a rework

would be the same issues from different people

[lyric zealot]

Randomizing what flowers show up when you select a garden and showing day you bought not day planted addresses a lot more

[heady crow]

if a reset happened with a planned date, with the context being that the cursed blooms are either removed or given to everyone, i think that is inherently less problematic of a solution than what we've got currently

[lyric zealot]

It’s still not perfect but

[potent rain]

i agree with this, i see no reason why they couldnt as surely they have a full list of founders

[lyric zealot]

It’s a less divisive solution I think

[quaint rune]

Just wait until we do this argument again when they introduce titles into the game like warframe and there's a cursed founder title

[heady crow]

lmao

[lyric zealot]

REAL

[potent rain]

do you not think it would not cause issues with the players who had done it prior, if people think its a flawed system a reset wont change that opinion

[lyric zealot]

Yeah but it also still starts fighting about prime spots and stuff

[heady crow]

i think it's less problematic, i didnt say it was not problematic

[potent rain]

i dont see who it would help besides the exact same amount as benifeted from it now

[lyric zealot]

Which is why all of this started to begin with

[heady crow]

i mean, the key difference is everyone is in the system now

everyone

nobody is locked out and being forced to watch as it goes down

[lyric zealot]

But, cursed flowers aren’t the only complaints about the garden

[potent rain]

true enough that is a fair point

[lyric zealot]

It’s just what the same 10 people have been debating for a daylol

[potent rain]

but because everyones in the system they also have the option for change towards the betterment

[lyric zealot]

I wonder if the moderators take shifts so this chat doesn’t drive them insane

[potent rain]

it keeps coming up and I truly think the least offensive workaround would be, flowers in nightfold, gardens randomised crediting

[quaint rune]

It's kinda the trolly problem right, they couldn't do anything about the cursed founders, that was out of their control, it sucks, but nothing they could do. The flower isn't taking anything away from anyone, its adding to those affected. If they choose to reset, rework, or even rotate the gardens, then they are actively choosing to Take things away from people. They are taking away the instance and the spot I really like.

[heady crow]

that's why i used the words less problematic. a wipe is still problematic - but less so than a exclusive skin. and if we had a planned mulligan day to try again - at that point people just miss out because they werent fast enough - not because of a payment processor locking them out. i think it's easier to swallow that

[potent rain]

dont even have to touch cursed flowers with that depending how its done, unless theres an empty slot for the others than it wouldnt have as much presedent

[lyric zealot]

I think as mentioned no matter what peeps gonna fight

[quaint rune]

You're gonna take this https://discord.com/channels/998758139405029478/1443543335233916999 view away from me?

[lyric zealot]

There’s a reason were still debating a solution rn

[tight halo]

There is no way de can fix this to change the garden without a group lossing it

[mellow portal]

we want no FOMO, right? so give every founder their flower, give every preluders their honour talisman, and rework the garden in a way thats not about fishing for a numbered lobby, simple really

[potent rain]

which is why theyll just simply leave it, doubt they want to risk more issues lol

[lyric zealot]

Yup

[heady crow]

yeah i think that's most likely

its the safest option for them to pick

[lyric zealot]

It’s probably just gonna be left alone but that’s okay

So much other stuff going on in game that have more impact for the average player

[heady crow]

the heirloom skins were an even bigger uproar (understandably so) and that ultimately got left alone

[tight halo]

I want no fomo but it happened

[quaint rune]

the flower will pop back up for something in 5 years like the braton and lato vandal did

[ivory parcel]

agreed, we're all here while it's in preludes too.

[tight halo]

De messed up and now entitled behaviour gone mad too

[heady crow]

in 5 years there wont be any plots left to plant it in lmao

[quaint rune]

I think the heirloom skins were more reasonable than the cursed flower. The cursed flower was a lottery. You had to be there at the right place at the right time in the right country. the heirloom skin you had months to buy

[potent rain]

thats what i think works best for to unify the community as it makes everyones time and effort towards preludes the same, but would be people arguing about it

[tight halo]

In 5days there be no plots

[heady crow]

real

[quaint rune]

There are going to be a lot of plots, they aren't going to run out lol

[analog sun]

💯

[potent rain]

plots in my inventory space lol

[heady crow]

just in relay number 4059

lol

[potent rain]

gonna sell them in 20 years for a million arcs

[tight halo]

Haha

[mellow portal]

we're arguing in circles all this time tbh, we're at 3500 comments on this post already lmao

[lyric zealot]

Yeah lol

[tight halo]

This should stay locked

[heady crow]

there's only 70-ish people in this discussion list and over 3500 comments

it should stay locked

[quaint rune]

but number doesn't really mean anything, I know I'm aruging for 69, but I would have taken 169 just the same I just didn't want to wait to plant.

I can promise you nobody is going to the gardens and saying ''wow these people garden 1 are so cool'

[lyric zealot]

The chat will likely be shut down soon again

[potent rain]

mods do it

[heady crow]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-dewit-gif-11426456

[ivory parcel]

atleast we know that they're watching the threads

[potent rain]

SMITE US DOWN DO IT

[tight halo]

When they get big

[quaint rune]

No, I need something to pass the time as I do mindless work, and I'm a drama llama

[heady crow]

at the very least i see a common thread between both sides even if we cant agree on anything else

[lyric zealot]

Just find another feedback chat and fake outrage

[heady crow]

the eternium garden is a very horribly flawed system

[potent rain]

i just prefer forums to the main general on this server

[tight halo]

De messed up and can’t put the genie back in the bottle it can’t be fixed

[heady crow]

rightamundo

[lyric zealot]

Theres too many people talking in general chat all at once usually

Get a migraine tryna keep up

[heady crow]

there's not gonna be a clean fix for this pretty much at the end of the day there's going to be a very vocal and very upset minority

[potent rain]

steve couldve maybe potentially, looked at the idea and thought it over with the team instead of advocating support for it then and there, assuming that its what happened because people have talked about it like it is

[heady crow]

because both sides are 100% minorities

[potent rain]

for the cursed flower suggestion off discord if that message is too vague

[tight halo]

No more fomo no chasing for a place

[quaint rune]

To me the most important thing is we need to not be okay with setting this precedence. I think a lot of cursed founders are okay with the exclusivity of the flower because they have one. There have been cursed founders here okay with the flower but not the talisman. Are we going to be okay the next time there's an exclusive item or cosmetic that's a lotteries chance of getting

[tight halo]

There shouldn’t be it should work like the Halloween event goes for like a month, everyone has a chance to get the stuff

Then locked out till next year

[heady crow]

i also just inherently disagree with the association of the flower being fomo. like are the medals that marathon runners get considered fomo you and i cant have those just because they got them? no - they got them because they were there and they were first. in a way, cursed founders were first. except the prize was a kick in the balls (at first) lol

[tight halo]

The flower isn’t the place in the garden is

[mellow portal]

that comparison doesnt make sense

[heady crow]

like if you told me i had two options, be early and get the flower, or wait ten minutes and get a spot in relay #1, i would've waited ten minutes

[potent rain]

the medals are known about to begin with though, thats the reason they are there and the reason they push for first place

not a good comparison in my eyes

[quaint rune]

I am never going to run a marathon, so no, I'm also not jealous that tom cruise got invited to a party I wasn't invited to

[tight halo]

Most won’t go to the garden anyway till there is a reason but people will go to the any of the first lot just as it quick r

[heady crow]

most marathons have medals that aren't numbered (which is essentially the cursed flowers). but in this comparison, cursed founders were at the marathon - while the others were on their couches

[potent rain]

and thats your choice, many others do not have the same opinion and thats alright

[potent rain]

no everyone was at the marathon but the cursed founders were held back due to a security issue

[tight halo]

Errors happen

I had Timezones and work so yeah shit happens fomo happens

[potent rain]

my experience exactly, gotta love canada time zones

[silent jackal]

difference is that 1. you know ahead of time what you're competing for 2. the difference between people getting them and people not getting them is skill
getting a cursed flower was completely out of one's control; locking an exclusive item behind an RNG participation trophy is not how it should be

[grizzled bloom]

Why was this forum opened again?

I mean does it even matter? the flowers are already sent out

[potent rain]

because they hoped for productive commentary and genuine ideas i suppose

[heady crow]

it should've stayed locked tbh its just the same group repeating things at this point

[silent jackal]

almost like the issue doesn't magically go away, huh

[heady crow]

there hasnt been any viable alternatives provided yet and so far we've accomplished nothing other than determining the eternium system is flawed lol

[heady crow]

heirlooms did. DE just had to wait it out

which is probably what they will do here

[potent rain]

ive listed many viable alternatives, its just not something thats focused on

[silent jackal]

nah, people just forgive too easily

[grizzled bloom]

whats the story with herilooms?

[mellow portal]

exactly

[silent jackal]

anyone outraged over heirlooms then or exclusivity now is in the right to do so, they said no to FOMO and yet here we are

[heady crow]

i may need a refresher but so far i didn't see anything that didnt involve either a full rework or wipe - those are the only ideas i can get behind that gives everyone a fair shot imo

[potent rain]

we have tried very hard to steer the conversation towards genuine ideas for days, search though my messages and you will see some, they just get overshadowed by opinions

[heady crow]

& the scrolling names or whatever idea was decent enough too

[grizzled bloom]

I mean I could see the point of these forums, like the game is in early alpha and we already having issues like this. So better get it sorted out earlier than later

[potent rain]

i assume the devs could sort through the comments to find them, i hope so at least

[heady crow]

what's most likely to happen is they're probably just gonna sit on it. again there's only 70 people in this discussion if you scroll the list - vast majority of the player base probably does not know or care

[lyric zealot]

I think moderators are reading it as it goes on and writing down the feedback

But could be wrong

[silent jackal]

wishful thinking

[lyric zealot]

Well, considering how quickly they say behave

[silent jackal]

because those are server rules

[heady crow]

mods are volunteers and dont usually have as much pull as you'd think. i remember [DE]Bear saying something like that for warframe

[quaint rune]

It'll get buried again, but I think it's important. I'm a teacher that has to deal with student FOMO and I try to help with coping skills.

Even if they don't change things, which they probably won't, just remember that you were here and you don't need an item to show that to others. You have stories and experiences new players won't. Sure, in 5 years, someone might think it's cool to see a cursed flower in the garden, but you don't need the flower to share the stories of early Soulframe with others. You can talk about the time Soulframe gave Xsolla a DDOS attack and sent players to the shadow realm.

I'm not a founder in warframe, but that's okay because they can't take the experiences I had in 2013 away from me. I can talk with others about what it was like to not have an orbiter. Remember when they took machete out of the game because it was the weakest weapon? The stories and community are what matter in life, not a flower.

And someone having an item you don't isn't taking anything away from you. You're going to have as much fun as you were always going to have. Sure, the flower might add enjoyment, sure a higher instance of garden might have given you a bit more fun, but you can't change the past, you'll have as much fun as you were always going to have, no more, no less. There's a quote by Joseph Campbell that speaks to me, it's one of my favorites, "We must be willing to let go of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us".

[silent jackal]

the .01% of players here arguing about exclusivity or FOMO isn't the same as someone not adhering to rules

[lyric zealot]

Im not saying they have pull, but they have openly said when they reopened that they report the feedback to DE

[potent rain]

yeah its been mentioned that the devs are aware and being reported to about it

[lyric zealot]

Or when they closed, forget which of the two messages said it

But still

So, even if DE doesn’t directly see any of this, the moderators are at least trying to pass on our feedback and concerns to them

[heady crow]

generally probably just a CYOA response for closing the thread lol

cant close the thread and comment nothing

[grizzled bloom]

I am sure Steve saw it, he does mention reading discord stuff

[quaint rune]

Nah, they know how to handle it, before this thread there was another thread that was the same thing.

It's easier to keep this thread open rather than it spilling into general chat

[lyric zealot]

I mean, doubt they made feedback channels they actively moderate just to go sike we dont care

[potent rain]

a beautiful way to think of it and I hope that people will take it in, but I also think that depending on how much of an issue this becomes, it could lead peoples memories of this time of development to be soured instead of cherished

[limpid loom]

This thread is absolutely massive, but does anyone bring up the dates under the names in garden? Like, if there was no dates under them, maybe the whole flower thing wouldn't be as messy as it is? Also, the garden instances not having numbers, but named after colors/whatever else (someone posted that idea on forums and I feel it would be a better solution than people actively trying to get popular numbers (garden 69 for example).

[heady crow]

i just remember the heirlooms forum page getting like an obscene amount of comments & pages to it, pretty sure the discord was on fire too. and even with that they decided the best option was to let it blow over

[lyric zealot]

And, ive been keeping track of some of the feedback channels and the patch notes are definitely addressing mentioned concerns and issues

[heady crow]

like that was 10x the outrage

[potent rain]

I see the dates as one of the least problematic parts tbh

[lyric zealot]

We will see how much they address in the end but they’re at least trying

[quaint rune]

Hey mods, if you're reading, should the dates under the flower being the day of purchase being for everyone need its own feedback thread or do you got it on your list from this one?

[grizzled bloom]

and what came out of it? did the community get what they wanted? I have no idea about the heirloom stuff.

[potent rain]

could be that it was too controverial and divided to make a choice either way, no way to know itll be the same here until the devs decide themselves

[heady crow]

lol no

[grizzled bloom]

Then this forum is pointless lol

[silent jackal]

I mean, can you get frost/mag heirloom rn? no. so no, they didn't

[potent rain]

very likely yes

[lyric zealot]

De just decided that the heirlooms after wouldnt be limited

[quaint rune]

Eh, its still good to give feedback

[potent rain]

I've yet to see devs communicating with the community for decisions and ideas, it might happen but no way to really know

[quaint rune]

the mods report to the community team who report to the devs, there's a chain of command, if we don't voice our concerns the devs will never know

[silent jackal]

giving people the feeling of being heard/having an outlet for frustration with "hopes" of having the message delivered to DE

[potent rain]

unless it has and I didn't see it, which is somewhat likely

[grizzled bloom]

ahhh, here we go again with the "Hopium" train. Well, better than nothing I guess.

[lyric zealot]

I highly doubt DE is entirely against bringing those exclusives and fomo back tho, I feel like its the legal side of it all cuz they did technically sign a contract with the buyers

[austere coyote]

i'm not really sure about this sorry, is it confirmed that other flowers still take the date planted?
i think it's ok to make a new thread about it if it's concise since it seems to be a separate issue

[potent rain]

brother eye confirmed

[quaint rune]

I think only the Cursed Marifold shows date of purchase

[heady crow]

so only the cursed bloom takes the date you purchased, the rest take the date you plant

[quaint rune]

I'll try to confirm before posting

[lyric zealot]

They do on the streams and stuff when they can but it is a big community so

[heady crow]

that is how it works i can confirm

[potent rain]

so the non paragons dont get a date?

[heady crow]

cursed bloom shows the day you purchased the founders pack and everything else shows the day you planted

[silver ice]

I can talk with others about what it was like to not have an orbiter
Remember when you had to slot your abilities in as mods?

[potent rain]

oh nvm

[grizzled bloom]

+1. Bought on 25th, planted on 28th. Shows 28th

[potent rain]

misread discard message

[quaint rune]

Yeah, and we used to have trees kinda like Soulframe now

[silver ice]

All cursed blooms shows 25th, because that's when the cursed founding happened

[austere coyote]

right, i think it's ok to make a new thread, but we'd rather not see the stuff from this thread spill over to it if possible, since it's a really volatile topic

[heady crow]

just word it vague - founders flowers should show the date of purchasing

[lyric zealot]

That’s fair

[quaint rune]

Okay I will try to emphasize to not talk about other things in it.

[heady crow]

it doesnt make sense for it to show the planting date anyways.

[grizzled bloom]

With that being said, remove preludes honor form the compendium so that it doesnot affect collection. People who got it can keep it, but move it out of my collection page.

[heady crow]

also it'd be a good way to distinguish between console founders / steam founders / preludes etc

[quaint rune]

im actually going to change it to both, because I have friends who are waiting until their birthdays and wedding anniversaries to plant.

[obtuse geyser]

Don't really understand the beef with flowers tbh, I've been to the gardens once and I didn't bother looking at anyone's names. Having a flower planted in an earlier garden isn't gameplay changing, you're going to forget about planting them in a month. Idk. I'm seriously hoping folks drop this bit of drama soon I'm not gonna ngl lie.

If you're crashing out over not getting an apology gift you're free to do so, but c'mon. It's a flower.

[mellow portal]

op already explained the reasoning behind the crash out quite clearly and in detail, hard to make it any simpler honestly

[dense dune]

a big part of it is the principle of them saying no fomo, specifically not adding fomo to the founders packs, then giving fomo to a few for something that any other game (including warframe) would have just given premium currency or something similar.

[obtuse geyser]

Well, alright. Guess you're missing out on these flowers then.

[night flame]

agree

they specifically don’t add anything exclusive to the packs to avoid excalibur prime and then they add fomo anyway?

[dense dune]

if the flowers overall are fomo, thats another issue that can be brought up when founders dissapears and people get salty over it.

[night flame]

the cursed flower is way more exclusive than the others

[dense dune]

I honestly couldn't care about the flowers or garden, im just against people getting exclusive stuff because they were impatient and broke the payment method and had to wait a couple extra hours for their things when they should have expected overcrowding and possible issues to begin with.(though i guess they can't really see how many people are getting founders at once)

[rigid drift]

The defendant - I’m a very exclusive flower

In all honesty though they should have just changed flower dates to date founders was purchased instead of adding a whole new flower

[dense dune]

new idea, just give cursed founders grass.

[marsh verge]

You have no idea what you are talking about. People buying founders didn't break anything. As Steve said on the stream they missed an email they needed from the vendor to unblock their feed. It was on DEs end that messed up. I was one of the cursed I don't particularly care, but don't mischaracterize the situation.

[civic geyser]

As a "cursed" founder, I won't be planting any flowers in protest of this poorly implemented, ill-conceived system.
I get that this would absolutely be a scene in an anime about people getting trapped in an MMO, and the main protagonist would take his love interest to the flower garden festival or some nonsense.
But in the real world this was never going to work. I could tell when they announced it, and just hoped with everything I had that they had some plot twist that would make it functional, but alas, I was correct and this is indeed a waste of everyone's time.

[dense dune]

multiple people have said that it was the vendor blocking it because it was overbought and thought to be a ddos, that was what i was going off of.

[rigid drift]

Next time DE need to give the payment processor a head up of the coming tsunami of orders

So they don’t have a repeat

[marsh verge]

And you and they are wrong so stop spreading bad information

[dense dune]

what stream did they say this in?

[marsh verge]

Steve was live streaming for a couple of hours during the founders launch, it was during that.

[quaint rune]

That is what happened though #envoy-gathering message

[marsh verge]

Because DE missed the email to unblock them.

[night flame]

😭

[marsh verge]

Of course they have DDOS protections they needed to allow the vendors feed through and they missed what they needed to do that

[quaint rune]

Which led to a false positive DDOS attack

[dense dune]

it was still caused by overload though? whether de caught it immediately or in 5 hours doesnt change the fact players should have expected a ddos issue. people were literally talking about it before the stream.

[marsh verge]

But characterizing it as the founders fault for buying the pack is completely wrong and inaccurate

[quaint rune]

I think it's a cool thing, enough people tried to buy things that it trigged

[dense dune]

the fact that it was 5 hours is des issue, the fact that it happened is players issue.

[marsh verge]

It wasn't 5 hours though. I bought immediately around 3:45 and got my stuff around 7:45

[night flame]

so 4

[dense dune]

ok, ive heard a day, 5 hours, and now 4. maybe its different for different people.

[marsh verge]

Again it's still not a player issue

[civic geyser]

• They release a thing
• I bought it
• systems I did not have a hand in configuring broke because everyone did this at the same time

It is absolutely not my fault. Blame the payment processor or DE, but it's absolutely not our fault.

[quaint rune]

I think Steve sent out the discord message that it was resolved at 8:30, so between 4 and 5

[night flame]

maybe its no one’s fault

[civic geyser]

There was no way for customers to know that they couldn't buy it yet. There was no way for them to anticipate this and coordinate staggered purchase times.

Blaming the customer for the payment processor and DE's failings is just straight up wrong.

[night flame]

the flowers feel like a big deal right now but when the game gets real I feel like the only people who know of their flower or want to show it to friends will visit a specific one.

Like how having a fancy tombstone doesnt mean anything to other visitors to the graveyard. You’re there for the friend or family member and to be in the field. Not to compete.

[civic geyser]

If this release had happened on steam (as games often do) it absolutely wouldn't have been a problem.

[grizzled bloom]

Game just got listed on steam, you can check the page. I guess its coming soon

[potent rain]

Is there a rough number for the amount of cursed founders by chance or is that not public

[grizzled bloom]

probably while founders is still around my guess

[quaint rune]

2649

[dense dune]

if you went to a large sale or mosh pit concert and got hurt, its your fault not the venues as much as you may want it to be. only difference is you can't see the people.

[night flame]

small number of players but lots of cursed flowers

[rigid drift]

They had a list according to DE

[civic geyser]

being unable to see the people is why it's not our fault

[rigid drift]

Pretty much the ones that payment went through but didn’t actually go through

[marsh verge]

You have a horrible victim blaming perspective

[potent rain]

Lol so an extra 2649 flowers to inflate the garden, I feel like with that number theres a slight problem in my mind

Maybe not idk

[dense dune]

you need to calm down a bit euthice, we already got in trouble once for targeting each other.

[civic geyser]

comparing online chaos to a physical mosh pit is also the worst strawman I've ever heard

[dense dune]

i wanted to compare it to physical black friday sale, but those havent existed for a while

[potent rain]

To try work this out a bit more, anyone here know how many flowers per instance

[civic geyser]

compare it to a similarly sized game release on steam

oh wait, that would defeat your point

[marsh verge]

Legion doesn't get it because they think that players who only wanted to support DE are to blame for the whole thing.

[dense dune]

they arent using steam for sales so that defeats your point.

we have at least 3 months to support de, you didnt need to rush in the first hour of it being sold.

[civic geyser]

The point is that there WAS a correct way to handle it, and they didn't do that.

Steam's ability to handle similar numbers shows that they could have and should have also been able to set up something similar, and if they aren't about to do that, then they should have done it on steam and let them do it.

[night flame]

i think legion has a problem with players queuing up like its an iphone release to get their flowers in early.. but imo its on DE for selling the only exclusivity as a reward for that behavior

[civic geyser]

Either way, us customers don't know what infrastructure they have. We just know there's a thing we wanted to buy.

It's not physical, we can't see it, so we don't know.

So we're not responsible.

[marsh verge]

It was an honest mis on DEs part, they fixed it as quickly as they could and made a small gesture as compensation when I don't even think many of us really cared. It's insane how up in arms everyone is

[charred iris]

Could you please explain what you mean by "selling the only exclusivity"?

[night flame]

so as I understand the only fully exclusive thing besides the paragon sword is the flowers and as a result where you put your flowers

[potent rain]

Off a rough estimation of flowers per instance, which I'll confirm later on, there were the equivalent of another 65ish instances of cursed flowers given out

[potent rain]

Glyph and I believe name color

[charred iris]

Thank you for clarifying.

[quaint rune]

i quickly ran around and there was about 120 that I counted so 120 give or take a few

[charred iris]

Your understanding may be slightly off though.

[potent rain]

120 flowers per instance you mean? Cause I got 40 off asking in general

[charred iris]

As there is another item in the game that was also given as compensation for a similar incident.

[night flame]

oh! what is it?

[quaint rune]

120 flower spots per instance

[potent rain]

In which case 22 instance equivalence

[marsh verge]

It's definitely more than 40

[charred iris]

There is a Talisman, originally a Mote, called preludes honours. Looks like a bird, leaves a trail of flowers in your wake. Was given for the pre-p7 account wipes as a gesture by DE.

However, this is not the place to discuss this item in depth.

Merely clarifying some information.

[night flame]

thats really cute, that makes sense bc they contributed to game development

[potent rain]

As did everyone playing in preludes tbf but as mod said not the place

[tender elm]

And those players will have their own cosmetic. But as mod said not the place.

[potent rain]

Yup yup

[civic geyser]

Frankly, the pattern of DE reaching into the FOMO bag every time something goes wrong is bothering me. I think I've said this before in another thread though.

[night flame]

when I wrote my message I was meaning exclusivity regarding the founders stuff <3

[potent rain]

It's been said a lot lol

Enough that they must be fully aware

[charred iris]

Ah. In that regard, the Bird Skins, Colour Palletes, Paragon Periapt Talisman, and the glyphs are not clear in their exclusivity. The list of items DE said would not be exclusive explicitly were all functional items. Paragon Periapt has a functionally identical replacement for all players in Triune. This makes these items in a sort of limbo for exclusivity until DE specifies.

[potent rain]

Can't imagine glyphs will be given out in future though right, don't know how it even would

[dense dune]

aren't the colour palletes in the shop

[charred iris]

There was a "and other items" but it's not clear what would be included.

[charred iris]

Possibly, if so that clears up that item at least.

[marsh verge]

They are a company and they are just trying to provide good customer service but I agree, they shouldn't pull the same trick everytime. Maybe a few arcs or something if they feel they have to do something.

[charred iris]

Anyways. Point is, founder exclusivity is a bit unclear atm. Back to the flower topic.

[night flame]

ty

[potent rain]

I like flowers

They're pretty nifty

[civic geyser]

Yeah, as a 'cursed founder' myself, some arcs and threads would have been fine IMO. I get people wanting the OG date on their flowers though, even though I think the whole system is flawed. Not sure what the correct fix of that would be other than what they did. I did see someone suggest just showing purchased AND planted dates on flowers instead of just planted dates.

[potent rain]

And im illiterate god damn

[dense dune]

no hobos flowers bad

[potent rain]

With no flowers theres no buzzy bees

And that would be tragic

[dense dune]

bees mean

[silent kernel]

While I had no strong feeling about the Gardens either way, after reading this thread a bit (my eyes glazed over after a while, 3686 replies 👀, I do not envy you DE employee reading this) I'm increasingly convinced that the thing was a well intentioned mistake from the get go on a design prospective.
While many people have risen many good point on both sides of the argument, the thing I have not seen anyone talk about is how this system will make console players Founders feel, and I'm not quite sure of the answer myself, but I don't think it will be positive.

Taking a step back we need to consider what the Gardens are supposed to represent:
A thank you for players supporting the game in the early phases and a way for those players to leave a "I was there" mark on the game. Or at least that's my take on it.
Do the Gardens fulfil that role?
I don't think so, the hidden nature already makes this something that will be relegated to a only the people in the know, and the instancing issues makes it so that only the first few rooms are likely to be visited even in case a player discovers this.

@tired pendant makes some valid suggestions in point A here: #1443714523298009109 message
I feel that approach of planting into the Nightfold and the rotating garden idea will make it more fair to not just the current Founders, but also for those who will come after.
Especially since there was talking about a watering the plant interaction, I feel having that in the Nightfold would be a much more engaging way of doing it.

[royal frigate]

I did mention that without having the gardens on rotation newer founders months from now will hate the gardens because they will be so far down the numbers nobody will ever go there.
So having the gardens on rotation would fix to some degree both issues with new founders and the people that didn't get in early IMO

[dense dune]

i was curious if console players were going to get another set of gardens since they will be in an entirely different founders group, but they are likely just going to be packed with the rest of us.

[royal frigate]

First come first serve doesn't really work when a lot of people couldn't get in

[royal frigate]

If its gonna be crossplay they have to be in the same

[dense dune]

yeah i figured that was the case, didnt know if the flowers or the wf memorial had some special rule though.

[placid harbor]

It's funny, I was JUST talking with someone about how it would have been better if there was a hub area akin to stations in Warframe with a number of plant plots equal to the player cap on the instance. Then they could have the flowers be randomized, but ALWAYS have the flower of a player within the instance spawn in.

[glass gazelle]

did they already put this flower in game? I find someone sharing the screenshot

[placid harbor]

here's one that was posted earlier

[vapid python]

Yes they did in the latest hotfix

[glossy token]

This is so funny to me. People are hung up over a color changed flower.

[placid harbor]

The flower doesn't bother me, but I do believe the gardens themselves could have been handled much better.

[glossy token]

Very true. This is what we should really focus on, instead of the cursed flower.

[vital tinsel]

All I want to say is, why does this Garden looks like a Garden of Peace, a memorial garden where I scattered my love one ashes

Planting a flower feels like looking at my grave

[grizzled bloom]

There was another opinion which I agree to that is just remove the garden and let us place our flowers inside our Nightfold

[fringe sonnet]

They should reset and close the gardens till the game gets released on multiple platforms and when it opens up they need to increase the size of a garden by like 20x, let 10 people plant their flower on the same spot and create a mixture of flowers on the same spot and have the walls at the edge of the garden these steep slopes with like 20 spots.

They also need to make it so you can only plant once in a relay.

In Warframe you have relay stations like these, would be better to have the garden the size of a bigger relay station map

[spring wolf]

Imo you should just be able to plant in nightfold so we get flowers in the nightfold, then it randomizes throughout the founders who gets plants in the garden every day

Like a feature system

No need for the 5x plants a instance and such, we get our own personal gardens, and the feature system can show us off

Don't have to go looking for where we planted, or finding our plants

Maybe that expands into enclaves, all enclaves have the same rotations of flowers so they spread

[potent rain]

Nice to see an interesting take, sounds cool

[spring wolf]

I'm mostly just copying what other people have said, with some ✨ flare ✨

[true kestrel]

Personally I couldn't care less about the gardens. To me they were always just going to be like having your name in the credits type thing. Unless more functionality is added no one is really going to bother with them in the future. Just for openness I do have flowers in the early gardens just because I was excited to buy straight away.

I know some people are upset about missing out on numbers and potentially not being as visible. My suggestion to add to the mix is when you load in you see two options

1- see my garden(s)
2- visit a random garden

Take all the numbers away. Wouldn't take too much Dev work and would take away the issue of who planted where. Putting everyone on an equal footing.

[serene solar]

i agree with this. They should take the numbers away and randomize the placement of the gardens on the list that rotates on a timer. Done, problem fixed. Thing is, now that they gave people that 'cursed flower' some people will feel wronged because they got into say garden 1, and now they 'lost their spot' and didnt get the cursed flower. This is why I wish DE would have stopped a minute to think before giving everyone the cursed flower. It was the wrong way to fix the issue. It should have never been about giving some people more exclusive items, instead the fix should have been to address the real issue which is the fact that people see certain garden numbers as 'prime real estate' and the delay in the flower delivery meant they lost the spot they wanted.

[true kestrel]

Exactly. The fix should have been trying to fix the root cause of the issue/ frustrations. Not throwing exclusive items at one group to make them feel special whilst simultaneously alienating the rest of their players and creating tiers of founders now.

[serene solar]

exactly. The issue is the poor design of the gardens, a design that creates competition and division among the founders by making some feel more special than others because of the gardens they got into. This should have never been the case, and all founders have the right to same visibility. Im not sure why no one thought of this before launching them.

[true kestrel]

I think sometimes if a certain thing is not important to you it's hard to see it as an issue. You only have to look at this thread. The number thing I was never bothered about. So until people started talking about it I hadn't really considered it.

A lot of people can't understand why others are upset about missing 'just a flower'. When it's not really about the flower. It's about collecting items in a game designed around a collection.

A lot say the preludes honour is just some flowers and it doesn't matter as it doesn't affect gameplay as there are others with the same stats. But again it's an item people can never get through no fault of their own. I was signed up before the last reset but couldn't get a code so I missed out. It wasn't lack of effort or me coming late to the party.

People value different things for different reasons and no one else should be deciding what's important to another player. Which is why I really think this types of compensation/ rewards are such a bad idea. Because whilst some see it as just a little token from the Devs, to others it's missing something important to them.

I would like to give the benefit of the doubt and think that possibly they weren't aware when giving these things how much it would affect others. But I would really like this to be a point where they stop and consider what's right for all types of players because equality really should be the aim. Not giving some more than others. And the length of all of these threads the past few days shows it is one of the biggest issues for a lot of people.

[serene solar]

yeah even without the backlog people were bound to feel angry and frustrated for not getting into the garden number they wanted. It was just poor design. I hope they find a way to fix it so everyone gets the same visibility, and numbers just go away so no one feels more special than anyone else.

[oblique pebble]

All the people who had issues with their purchase should've been giving arcs or something that could be acquired by everyone else instead of an exclusive item that can only be gotten if you had an error occur. So strange that they decided that the only way to theoretically intentionally acquire this item is by figuring out how to cause an error when they purchase founders.

[rigid drift]

The best fix would have just been to change every planted and future planted flowers date to purchase date and not plant date

Or add a option when planting to choose between the two

[tired pendant]

The whole point of this feedback isn’t “I want X flower/talisman,” it’s about the direction of Soulframe. DE has been advertising a “no FOMO / no extreme exclusivity” philosophy, and the Founder packs being long-term available was supposed to support that.

But in practice:
1- The Eternium Garden was shipped as an instance race (FOMO), even though Steve literally said on stream it would create issues.
2- The way compensation was handled created more edge-case exclusivity instead of fixing the underlying problems.

The result is that we now effectively have three “tiers” of founders:

• Honoured Founders – invited early by RNG and present before the wipe.
• Cursed Founders – in the backlog on buggy launch, getting a special cosmetic tied to that bug.
• Everyone else who bought Founders – who don’t get either.

That growing divide (based on RNG, and bugs) is what worries me. It feels out of step with the direction they talked about for Soulframe, and that’s why this topic matters to a lot of us.

[lean wolf]

+5

[civic geyser]

Honoured and cursed aren't mutually exclusive.
There are probably an elite few honoured and cursed founders out there.
There's probably also a fair few honoured normal players who haven't bought founders packs yet.

[true kestrel]

What is honoured. Why are we giving people these names. We are all founders and this is just adding to issues

[cobalt anchor]

Also there are founders that paid more than 100 usd due to regional changes that warframe doesnt have

[civic geyser]

The honoured talisman was given to a few preludes players who played before a certain account wipe

[true kestrel]

I know what that is just didn't realise they now had a name

[civic geyser]

Naming them wasn't important to me. I was just trying to clarify the categories of people with exclusive stuff.

[tired pendant]

I only used Honoured / Cursed as shorthand for groups that already exist in-game (people with Preludes Honour, people on the backlog list) to explain the problem more clearly.

[civic geyser]

^this

[true kestrel]

It just seems like giving groups an additional status based on something they happened to be given. It segregates the playerbase and people will use it as a status symbol. As can be seen by the usernames

[tired pendant]

Ideally, there wouldn’t be any special, oddly exclusive labels at all, and the systems (Gardens, compensation, etc.) wouldn’t be creating these divisions to begin with

[civic geyser]

Technically we're all also in the category of preludes players who will get "Alca's Eye" whatever that is. So yay, more exclusivity.

I'll see if I can make a Venn diagram later

[tired pendant]

Limited event exclusivity where people choose to join in is fine with me – stuff like Alca’s Eye for “people who played during Preludes” doesn’t bother me.
What worries me is the other kind of exclusivity: tiny RNG or bug windows (early invites, backlog lists, etc.) turning into permanent collection/status items. That’s very different from “you were around during this broad event, so you get X.”

[true kestrel]

Same. If people want to play they can. Codes have been on twitch drops plenty of times. As long as everyone has a chance that's fine. I expect timed exclusives. Just not random ones locked to small groups that others had no option of being included in.

[sacred pumice]

I can't even find the original message that started this lmao, anyone got a link for the very first message/the thread message?

[tired pendant]

🔁

[sacred pumice]

awesome thanks

[granite field]

If funny to see players getting compensation for not being able to plant day0, but in Warframe founders got exactly zero compensation if their startchart node was removed in one of the reworks (f.e. Saturn: Phoebe) ...
Want to hear the unique voiceline when you play on your node, too bad ...

[civic geyser]

#1443714523298009109 message

[civic geyser]

Yeah that was a similarly good-intentioned, poorly-conceived, and even-more-poorly-implimented system that eventually got trashed in favor of monuments in the relays.
I suspect the same will eventually happen to these flower gardens.

[granite field]

i liked the original system in WF (names under the star chart nodes), but yea, the relay replacement was another slap in the face (hidden in top, where noone actually can see it normally) ... i assume something similar will happen in SF too, like 200+ instances of gardens is just unsustainable (even more when console players will get their founders) ...

like 1 flower node per player would have caused issues too, but the current 4 ... or 5 with compensation is just making the system break down even faster

[civic geyser]

If adding a few more flowers would kill it, then it probably shouldn't have been a thing in the first place.

[ornate loom]

Would be nice if every flower had a founder date and a date planted thing.

[rigid drift]

They could just do a book with all the founder names with purchase date next to each name in every garden

Put it on a pedestal in the center of the garden

In addition every person that reads the founders list in the book will have their name added on the left side

Read by - Username Here

Then everyone even non founders can have a piece of the pie

Just add scroll option gonna be lots of scrolling though lol

Thoughts everyone ?

Maybe also add a alphabetical index so you can skip around to certain parts

[silent kernel]

Giving further thought about how to make a tasteful thing out of the Gardens this is what I come out with:

1. A central spot where the flowers can be placed by the Envoy entering the garden (instances created as needed, similar to relays), visible only to Founders to not give the feel of having missed out on something to visiting Envoys.
2. A second circle of randomized flowers pulled from the friend list who are also Founders, if not all spots are taken then pull from any Founders.
3. A third circle of randomized flowers pulling from any Founder.

This way the Founder themselves will see their own Flower in a dedicated position where interactions can take place if they decide to implement them, they will see their friends flowers near them (I am told this is important for some), and every Founder will have representation as well.

I feel this would be a way to leave the idea and objective of the Gardens intact, while fixing the primary issues with it.

[silent kernel]

I like this idea as well though.

[dull obsidian]

hmmm might sound controversial buuut how about like a founders pathway like a winding trail lined with stones or lanterns each carrying a founder's name and just add pretty flowers around ?

[civic geyser]

I like the idea on its face, but it's probably even less practical than the flower gardens are.
I think you might not be picturing just how many people bought a founders pack.

To be fair, it's a staggering number that is hard to wrap your head around.

There are towns near where I live that have lower populations, to put it in some perspective, though probably still not a good way to think about it.

[dull obsidian]

Yeah honestly might have been a stretch granted I honestly don't know how many founders they are and will be going forward anyways since its still open was also thinking like a flower bed or something of that nature too but again don't know the numbers as you stated so can't really put an Idea foward

[civic geyser]

Said another way, such a trail would probably wrap around the island we play on several times.

[lyric zealot]

I maintain the gardens cycling the flowers they show(so no one is in a permanent spot) and showing purchase date not planted(or at least show both) is one of the better suggestions given

[civic geyser]

It is probably the only rational way to handle the current situation, now that it's out here.

[lyric zealot]

And to clarify, no one is perm showing either, it cycles through

[civic geyser]

As a solution to the current situation, yes, +1, I'm a fan.

It's still not an ideal situation to be in, because

• the entire thing is tucked away in a place that I still see founders asking how to reach, and that will be forgotten by everyone else.
• people will complain about not being able to set theirs next to a friend or something

[dull obsidian]

second point already happening btw

[civic geyser]

Yes, just saying, there are inherant flaws with the idea of a founders flower garden hidden behind music in the nighthold outright that likely cannot be fixed because the concept itself is flawed.

I like the idea of having a just a small flower bed in the nighthold for these kinds of flowers. That way they can continue to hand out new ones for certain achievements or special events or whatever happens, and we can have a cool cosmetic that grows with us in that way.

Pulling from there and displaying random flowers in existing player hubs (the faction hubs for now, mostly) would also be neat.

Setting aside an entire hub just for founder flowers feels like they're simutaneously trying to give us something they think is neat, and trying to tuck it in a closet to be forgotten later.

If they ever get around to a clan system and add a clubhouse (warframe called them dojos), then adding flowerbeds that showed off clan member's flowers would also be freaking awesome.

Visitors to the clubhouse could see them, and there would be an existing reason for people to be there regularly.

And the list of people displayed would be a much shorter list.

[dull obsidian]

Adding onto this they could also do like a tree house with the leaves represnting shining founders and such too that would be cool like twinkling lights

[civic geyser]

I suppose, but you get the idea: they need some way to divide up people so they're not fighting over spots and creating a billion instances.

Or else just rework it into something else entirely.

[short pumice]

I agree with everything you suggested, the garden system feels way too bloated and annoying, and the fomo in garden instance is real, same with the cursed flower

[civic geyser]

Frankly, if they wanted to give me something for my trouble that I would care about: please DE, gimmy back my old Fay pact! lol

Failing that, cosmetics I and others would actually see and cross during normal gameplay would be infinitely better than some out of the way hidden garden.

[true kestrel]

I disagree with the numbering system but I don't think they were ever intended to be a massive focus. Just a credit somewhere for founders. I think having them there for founders to see if they want is fine. They shouldn't be too in your face for future players.

[short pumice]

Even if they weren't, they added that as part of the benefits in the Founders Pack, half-assing it just because it's not the main focus would make the buyers feel bad

[true kestrel]

It's not half assed. It is a space for your name. They promised nothing more

[short pumice]

Yet they implemented it that way that caused all these issues, half-assed literally means doing minimal effort. Yes, they promised nothing more, still half-assed

I probably worded that out in a rude way mb, I appreciate the dev team, they're definitely in my top 3, even top 1 maybe, but the way the garden is implemented is just bad

[deft beacon]

explain how

[true kestrel]

I agree it's badly thought out. But I think the main issues all stem from there being a hierarchy of spots in some people's minds. Take that away and it works just fine for its purpose.

[deft beacon]

So a non issue then?

[short pumice]

maybe for you, but for a lot of people (I assume a lot, because I keep hearing about this), it is

[true kestrel]

All I mean is people are talking about full on redesigning the system and I personally don't think it's needed. Take the numbers off the instances and randomise them. That's it.

People are talking about them not being visible enough to new players in the future and I don't think they have to be. It's a small acknowledgement. That's it.

[deft beacon]

Fomo can be incited, but it is, invariably, self inflicted. People should just chill about zeroes and ones inside of a video game

[short pumice]

that could work

the other guy's idea was cooler tho, but I get that it would be too much work, maybe

[obtuse geyser]

+2

[short pumice]

I think it's unfair to the founders to think like that, they were promised no fomo, and they bought an expensive pack, yet they still got it

[celest light]

Personally I just wanna see my flower in the nightfold

[obtuse geyser]

Should have been one of the few unfortunates that were forced to wait because of a payment processing error, ig. You're doing this to yourself I think.

[true kestrel]

Yeah we could sit here for days talking about how the gardens could be improved. But I think people are thinking they are more than what was intended. Obvs I'm assuming here.

The main issue of the thread was how to equal the playing field across players both in the types of compensation and the numbering design

[deft beacon]

I'm one of the founders, I don't think that's unfair to me. It doesn't change a single bit about gameplay. An extra flower is not going to make me deal +15% damage. The exclusive pacts and weapons that I have won't be exclusive for long. The cosmetic stuff I couldn't care less. This whole situation is a non issue.

[night flame]

fashion frame is endgame

[short pumice]

+1

[scarlet cypress]

Its an issue for the precedent is sets for the future

where does it end?

[obtuse geyser]

When you let it end I think.

[north yoke]

Love how DE does something nice for people who were effected by a tech problem and it blows up in their face.

[deft beacon]

The only precedent that set is that there is a lot of people susceptible to self inflicting fomo

[scarlet cypress]

there are already 2 exlusives, one of which is an itemw which is a huge deal

[twilit ember]

lmao... at this point they'll either not care or give it to everyone...

[scarlet cypress]

at this rate one day there will be weapons and armour permanently locked away aswell

[obtuse geyser]

Some people feel like they deserve to have things they aren't the recipient of, it's just life.

[twilit ember]

word

[celest light]

If your talking about the Paragon greatsword, those aren't going to be permanently locked since founders will be able to hand out blueprints for them

[scarlet cypress]

no, preludes honor

[celest light]

Oh my fault

[scarlet cypress]

and this isnt a woe is me i deserve everything argument like is being implied

i have them

and i disagree whole heartedly that it should be locked away

[mellow portal]

i find that flower better looking than that plain yellow one we get as paragons tbh

[north yoke]

what items are locked away? I am confused by this? maybe I missed something. the greatsword will be shareable. is there something else?

[mellow portal]

prelude honour talisman, given to people who played before p7 iirc, and that cursed marifold flower

[deft beacon]

A talisman that has the same stats as the Triune talisma

[scarlet cypress]

this

[civic geyser]

As a cursed founder, I would 100% trade my cursed flower for the prelude honour.

But either way I hate that they just reach into the bag of exclusive items every time there's a mild hiccup.

Just, idk, remove both and hand out the affected players some more arcs and call it a day.

it's setting a bad standard of expectations

And yeah, I think people should be worried that more of this will happen, because it keeps happening.

[north yoke]

I guess I question it mattering as it doesn't effect your envoy rank or has any practical difference. but I also get the overarching argument.

[civic geyser]

I doubt any of us actually care about the flower itself, no.

[twilit ember]

you think so cuse the person who made this post seems to

[civic geyser]

I'm not even going to plant mine, and if I'm being honest with myself, I probably wouldn't wear the prelude honor either.

[scarlet cypress]

i dont agree with it but i admit its not that big a deal, its more the precedent and tone it sets that i dont like

the preludes honor being locked away is a travisty imo though, absoulutly not okay in any shape or form

[twilit ember]

I mean if you didnt play b4 P7 u wouldnt even know abt it

[scarlet cypress]

i can accept exlusives that everyone has the chance to get when its avalible, but oh sorry you got unlucky so you can never have this thing, i do not agree with at all

[twilit ember]

unless someone told you

[civic geyser]

It's a blank spot in the compendium

[austere sluice]

As someone that didn't get to Founder until Day 2, I'd -love- to have our flowers be a part of our Nightfold. Love that idea because then we'll regularly see them (and so will our viewers if we stream), versus a special zone few people will look at after launch.

[scarlet cypress]

wiki exists and its in the compendium

[twilit ember]

good to know

[scarlet cypress]

whole point is games like this is collection and completionism, and people are permanently locked out of that completion by rng

[twilit ember]

ooh welp i wouldnt know that since i have it lol

[mellow portal]

its a neat little talisman with the flower effect as you walk around

[scarlet cypress]

lil birdo

[true kestrel]

Exactly this. Don't make a game centred around collecting which will attract completionists and then be surprised they aren't happy about random unobtainable exclusives. The two just don't mix.

[austere sluice]

How cute! I wonder if maybe down the line they'll do the thing where we'll be able to collect it via people who originally got it. They get the prestige of having it "first", and maybe it passes along with their name in the item description. "Recipe from (Envoy)."

[royal frigate]

we even got a compedium just to rub it in even more

"look at this empty slot you can never get"

[obtuse geyser]

Or just accept what you cannot change and move on to play the rest of the game you're playing 🤷‍♀️

[royal frigate]

being dismissive isnt productive

[twilit ember]

some people can't do that

so it is what it is ig

[royal frigate]

if you dont care about it fair enough but dont dismiss others that do

[twilit ember]

sure thing

[obtuse geyser]

If you read this as dismissive I'm afraid that isn't my fault. I'm going to go back to farming some fragments, later ya'll.

[true kestrel]

Then what's the point of the feedback section if we are all just accepting everything as is.

[royal frigate]

^

[short pumice]

^

[twilit ember]

ok what they needa do is just give everyone everything they want then that'll make us all happy right?

[royal frigate]

youre being disingenious. nobody is asking for everything we just want equal treatment across the board.

[obtuse geyser]

Some facts of life are simply set in stone. You didn't suffer a very shitty issue where your cc was charged for a hundred dollars and you didn't get anything out of it. I didn't even have this problem and I'm still aghast that people are behaving this way to be honest.

[twilit ember]

im speaking specifically about this flower

[royal frigate]

and a exclusive item is not one of them

it can be changed

dont act like it cant

[true kestrel]

No they don't have to do anything. I think they should make all items obtainable to everyone playing if they want to put the effort into getting them. So that's my feedback. They either do something about all this or not.

[twilit ember]

sure thing

[obtuse geyser]

Well, I figure you're wrong here. An """exclusive""" item was what came of it. I'm glad these inconvenienced accounts were reimbursed like this, its very charming.

[royal frigate]

just because its what happened doesnt mean it cant be changed further

everyone else can get it if the devs decide on it

[twilit ember]

yeah they should just make it farmable for ppl that can't live w/o it

[royal frigate]

fine by me. farmable is fair

[austere sluice]

For now, those unable to get certain items, we'll have to treat the items as forgotten histories... maybe if we collect enough motes we'll remember them. 😄

[twilit ember]

yes I think that is the solution it should just be farmable in game

its starting to look like it lol

[scarlet cypress]

soul king is cencoring me wtf

[royal frigate]

?

LOL

[scarlet cypress]

someone deleted the aizen image i posted

[royal frigate]

probably for a reason

[scarlet cypress]

Stuck a cord with someone who can't handle the truth no doubt

[lethal escarp]

Hey y'all either keep on topic, or please don't post at all in this chat. There's already enough for us to moderate without the clutter.

[heady crow]

Might've been a mistake to reopen this one 😅

[ornate loom]

Ultimately I think maybe adding either rotating instances or more ways for founders to make their mark on the game would be nice

[royal frigate]

Rotating instances and cursed flower in the shop win-win for everyone.

[lyric zealot]

I think atp all we can strive for is fanning the flames as little as possible and not tryna put all the flames out entirely

[lean wolf]

because they do it in the wrong way .,. instead of just giving extra recources or a little bonus currency NAAAAH lets give them something unique and cool only for them because of a random bs bug

[lean wolf]

give founders a statue or a tomb stone

[vapid python]

What's that going to solve?

[lean wolf]

its a reply to the other dude not a solution to this

[vapid python]

That's just moving it from one item to another a flower to a tomb stone

[lean wolf]

-_- read the other persons reply

[vapid python]

Yes? They're trying to come with a solution of the instance problem?

Rotating instances, as in the founders can all be seen, that's how I read it

[lean wolf]

or some other means that they can be seen aka use the many blank tomb stones already across the map to display founder names etc

[ornate loom]

i don't think the cursed flower should be for everyone.

I think it could be a possible repeat apology flower by DE with the date of incident assigned to said flower

[royal frigate]

so it will only return if they mess up again? yeah i dont agree with that

[ornate loom]

it's a fair compensation/appeasement

[royal frigate]

we already went over this. its not fair in the slightest

mods already said to not keep repeating the same thing not sure why youre still trying to bait people

[ornate loom]

The users get screwed over and they get a flower to appease them, seems like an efficient fix

[royal frigate]

again you said that before and I repied to it

[ornate loom]

This would be baller

[ornate loom]

You are the one who brought up the topic lmao

[royal frigate]

read again. i was replying to someone else

[royal frigate]

That was an hour ago

[ornate loom]

Simply responded when I had time lol. Plus not many messages here anyways.

[royal frigate]

but if you dont tag the message youre replying to theres no way to know to what message i sent youre reffering

[ornate loom]

Get better wifi 😔 /s

[royal frigate]

my bad

[celest light]

Add having your flower in the nightfold to that and it's absolute peak

[royal frigate]

Thats probably the best thing as well because I bet 50%~ of players would rather place them there which means the total number of instance needed would be massively reduced

[celest light]

💯

They probably could do both tbh

[royal frigate]

they defo could

and the flowers in the nightfold would be very easy

could have slots to put on the tree

and have them around it or near

[celest light]

Agreed, also hoping there will be more to do in the social hub

But that's another story

[slender briar]

While I personally wouldn't have minded this, I think the idea was exclusive compensation for a missed exclusive - that being early picks of numbered instances. Obviously the earlier numbers are more desirable, but others missed out on numbers sentimental to them for one reason or another that they may have had a shot at if not for getting backlogged.

I think this is why the idea of replacing the current instances with one garden that rotates through all founder names seems to be a pretty popular idea. It eliminates the exclusivity.

I also think having cursed marifold in shop to those who want it isn't a bad idea - maybe just with that player's paragon date instead of the one that reverted to Nov 25. Again, eliminating exclusivity. "Buy a cursed flower in solidarity with the cursed founders."

I also really like the idea of being able to place the flowers in your own Nightfold in addition to the Eterneum Garden because that's where most of us would see them anyway - perhaps even with later expansions to Nightfold flower selection while leaving Eternium Garden offerings as they are outside of the Founder-specific ones.

[wispy kestrel]

Mods, bless your hearts having to look at all these complaints with no fruits to bear. Keep up the good work ❤️

[celest light]

If they do allow us to plant in the nightfold, we should definitely be able to have a particular flower able to be planted in both the nightfold and eternium at the same time (I don't really see a reason why you wouldn't or shouldn't be able to)

[slender briar]

Yes, my thought was having the founders ones simultaneously planted in Eternium Garden and your Nightfold.

[celest light]

[dark field]

i like your idea, wouldn't mind buying it

[cursive galleon]

+1 to this

[potent rain]

The goat

[short pumice]

+1

[foggy steppe]

Genuinely yall are just complaining about those who got compensated for missing out on getting what they wanted, it's sad, stop making mods and devs life harder, get over it and please for the love of envoy act with an ounce of braincell and realize this was made because it's COMPENSATION, Google that word

[supple turtle]

Please don't insult other members of the discord. It's against the rules

[foggy steppe]

I do apologize, it's just frustrating seeing people annoyed with devs and mods over compensation

[scarlet cypress]

Compensation shouldnt be a unique item that everyone else is locked out of

[vital tinsel]

You can only say this because you are part of the affected ones and got the exclusive flower. Now if you stand on the other side, of the one who experience no issues, you would definitely feel left out. This thread is a feedback thread for the devs to do better, considering they have been always doing a great job so far. But this is not a solution for long term, if they keep giving exclusive stuff to people to encounter issues, tell me if you won't be left out if you get nothing for ten times in a row for something you have no control over

[supple turtle]

They are allowed to voice their grievances in a feedback section, that's the point of the forum. You are also allowed to voice that you disagree with them! But they're allowed to make their voices heard

[foggy steppe]

While I would feel left out if I wasn't part of the affected people I would be upset but just like warframe I wasn't part of the ones who could get Excalibur prime, while it's not exactly the same, this is about compensating those who missed out, I was looking forward to planting my seed in plot 3,i chose a spot and logged in the minute the founders update drop and I didn't get my items until much much later when all the slots were filled and j was left without a plot

[foggy steppe]

I understand that, but some are being more aggressive that from what I saw even the mods asked them to please calm down

[rain trench]

NGL deliberately putting [Cursed Founder] on your name then telling everyone else to get over it is... a choice. Because clearly you recognize its value.

[supple turtle]

Mods have had to ask people on all sides of the argument to calm down unfortunately, it's a hot button issue

[vital tinsel]

Yea nothing wrong being upset having issues and cursed people getting flowers, it's just the devs could have change the whole concept or compensate the cursed people without causing fomo or strife in the community i guess

To me, I feel the garden concept was bad to begin with. Day 1 or not, I feel all founders should be treated equally

[foggy steppe]

I do agree with that don't get me wrong, but people lost a chance to get their plot and date on when they wanted their flower to bloom
While they could've easily changed it to make it so only the dates were fixed to be like cursed flowers, I think the fact that those who lost their spot they wanted deserve more because of an issue on their end

[scarlet cypress]

The problem is that there is nothing they could have done what would make everyone happy and what they did do was probably the worst option, there was no need to make an exclusive item for it

[foggy steppe]

I felt absolutely gutted waiting for hours next to the spot I wanted and seeing it get filled, choosing another spot and over the next however many hours see a repeat

[plain shale]

sorry, don’t get me wrong but I believe this is part of the issue being brought up with the implementation of the gardens as well. why is it possible for founders to be run out of spots they wanted? why are some founder spots more desireable than others?

I think that’s more the point of the problem, not that people were compensated for having issues

[short pumice]

Which is exactly part of the problem people had with the system, the fomo to be first

[foggy steppe]

This is my point, the whole reason I did mine so fast is to secure a spot but I lost the spot and every other spot until they manually fixed mine

[vital tinsel]

Yea the whole garden implementation was bad to begin with hahaha

I was expecting to be a huge relay with a sea of flowers

[short pumice]

Same

[vital tinsel]

All i get was like an ashes scattering memorial garden layout

[rain trench]

Ironically, if the flowers were unnamed and un-dated none of this kerpuffle would've happened

[plain shale]

yes and as far as I understand it, this thread is pointing out that what they’re doing to fix the problem is like slapping a bandaid on top of the issue rather than addressing the root of it: why was it necessary to have a founder’s race to begin with?