game-discussion

[short rover]

high roll or normals okay too?

[storm stratus]

Yeah man Idk about that 10% nonsense, I've seen more than you'd expect for a 1/10 to go dry 50 deep. I don't trust that wiki, the devs can't even get the wording on their tooltips right let alone stuff like that :]

[charred phoenix]

will luck potions help?

[subtle heart]

yea

[storm stratus]

Dunno, I used around 50 luck potions (yes) and I got my hoof on high roller with 0 luck. I think you're just gonna have to pray to rngesus

[gritty flume]

Make torture mastery not work on pve at ALL. BOOM SOLVED WARLOCK IS BALANCED WOW THAT WAS SO HARD

[weak idol]

they havent helped me at all and ive used multiple and gotten the 100 and 150 rolls multiple times hell ive even used armor with luck on it as well and nothing

[desert thorn]

MAKE HYDRA SMALLER!

[charred phoenix]

lets try luck potions in HR 🙂

[weak idol]

been there done that

[subtle heart]

haha nice another lobby with no lich time to wait 20 minutes

[charred phoenix]

got spawn killed by a rogue after 10 sec 🥲

[weak idol]

i just had to fight 2 rogues who teamed on me so yea pain

[slow oxide]

Might hop in with my full BiS rogue kit and creep/ambush around.
Idk yet

[charred phoenix]

how come some other player can barge in ur spawn after litteraly less than 10sec 🥲

[subtle heart]

cuz they know the spawns and are better than you

[charred phoenix]

bold of you to assume such a thing : )

[modern wolf]

hey yall i have 8400 gold in my payout inventory but it isnt letting me transfer over bc it says not enough inventory in stash or inventory, but i have a completely empty stash for it

[storm stratus]

yeah you gon need gold coin bags the big ones for that amount or to the very least the entire stash full of the 50 gold bags

[subtle heart]

each stash doesnt have 840 spots for gold. buy bags

[modern wolf]

it appears ive done my math wrong. thanks for your help yall!

[weak idol]

how to message another player?

[subtle heart]

do /w name message

[storm stratus]

A mace to the head will deliver the message directly.

[balmy minnow]

voip flaming is always an option

[weak idol]

nah i found a nice player and instead of fighting we decided wed run dous together our next run he had just fought a warlock and i a just fought a rogue we were done fighting

[rocky lagoon]

are the ore spawn locations in goblin caves different each time? they seem to change between multiple different spots

[rustic laurel]

they fr gutted warlock, full plate fighters have 101% ms this is insane. these players have no brains just 2 keybinds

[short rover]

why double crouch hypnotizes people, you can just walk into them and headshot for free

[subtle heart]

warlock can get 110% ms

[subtle heart]

cuz thats friendly sign. ur mean

[charred phoenix]

treason XD

[tropic moat]

change cowl of darkness for warlock to wear it

[mental blade]

Please devs... make the maps random... I hate entering lobbies without players, just cus everyone is waiting for fuckin gobling caves... make the map rotation BLIND

[night slate]

how do people do the funny lil monkey dance emote?

[weak idol]

why cant you add people based off their character name

[plucky sage]

how do u craft with the ingots ?

[charred phoenix]

not sure but I think it's goblin dance that you unlock after finishing all his quests

[subtle heart]

do armorer quest to unlock crafting services

[serene knot]

My lizard brother It's me the fighter

[weak idol]

where have you been brother i couldnt find you anywhere

[serene knot]

I got merked by a hell hound and for some reason you have to add someone based off of account name not character name

[strong solstice]

why no one is in the lobby and the game start wtf

[nocturne marsh]

Guys

Can we all agree warlock needs a nerf?

[subtle heart]

timer

[mortal tusk]

wait is there a point of going past level 20 other then reward tokens

[subtle heart]

flex

[silver shale]

If Dswws the druid sees this. Send me a friend request on on DaD
Atricious

[rocky lagoon]

does resourcefulness increaes mining speed? does magical interaction speed do this as well?

[pearl wigeon]

Yoo anyone wanna help a brotha out, in killing Lich for a quest?

[cosmic swan]

Lots of people think that too. Imo a nerf is not the solution, the problem is in the core of Warlock's healing mechanics. That's what i'll suggest about Warlock https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/564808/rework-of-warlocks-healing-mechanic. With that done then we can start really balancing him

@rocky lagoon Yes ressourcefulness increase mining speed as long as Regular interaction speed, not magical

[nocturne marsh]

Mannnn I dont think it needs all that, I just think his phantomize needs charges

[junior wharf]

WHY THE FUCK CAN ITEMS BE DROPPED ON TOP OF A TRAP TO MAKE IT MORE DIFICULT IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO INTERACT WITH THE TRAPPPPPPPPPPP ?(hunters placed trap)

[cosmic swan]

That not incompatible. Imo phantomize is one if the issue but not the main one, nerfin only phantomize won't really solve any issue with warlock

[subtle heart]

pick up item

[cosmic swan]

Well a ranger in the nature will try to hide the trap as much as possible no? Even for animal we try to hide the trap. People do it like they can in game, with item and PvE bodies

[lime coral]

skelly stole the last hit on the ranger I just killed so it didn't count for my quest

[silver shale]

How the fuck are you supposed to get the lockpicking quick time event?

[subtle heart]

press space bar when the bar is in the highlighted zone

[silver shale]

Yeah but it happens so fast and without any warning

[lime coral]

usually upwards of halfway through the interaction no?

[bold fog]

anyone wanna run some hell stages or high roller cyclops killing?

[sweet umbra]

Sick of fucking cheaters in this game

[waxen rain]

A question to everyone. My friends and I are kinda new to the game and I was wondering about group comps. A friend plays rogue and fighter, another friend plays ranger and fighter and I play everything really... but... I don't actually know what would be a good composition for us... any suggestions?

[loud perch]

#NerfFighter

[cosmic swan]

Keep reporting them, they get banned I know it's a problem but no game never solve that issue. It's very expansive and intrusive for players to have a good anticheat solution. There doing the best they can banning people who cheat and are actually doing quite a good jobs about that

@waxen rain if you're all new to the game, a support, Cleric especially would be amazing. The game is way easier to learn when you don't need to bother too much on your HP and healing.

[lime coral]

^
especially with the self buffing cleric can do as well as the middle high survivability, great character starting out
weapon selection is a little lackluster but you can stretch out once you're comfortable with the basics

[cosmic swan]

Bard can do the trick to and is very versatile, you can use the Lyre spell to regen health faster when sitting it help a lot

[ripe quartz]

Noob Rogue is hard

[waxen rain]

I saw the cleric support and is kinda difficult but I saw an interesting thing in druid, the perk that heals u infinitely, I don't know why people don't talk about that

[lethal willow]

who's in the meta rn? from worst to best?

[cosmic swan]

Druid is way harder to learn and got nerf a lot recently I wouldn't recommend it right now.

@lethal willow Class are quite balanced right now, play what you like the most you can manage to do great think with any class really. But if you don't want to use your brain and don't really learn the game then Warlock

[waxen rain]

Oh thx..

So I'm going to play cleric.. but.. my friends? Should we go fighter ranger cleric? I understand that is kinda good cuz fighter longsword goes full speed ahead, the ranger.. shoot.. and cleric heal the fighter.. I guess that that should work, right?

[cosmic swan]

Don't be meta slave people. The game get balanced a lot and very often. Play what you like, it's dumb to try sticking to a meta

@waxen rain Yes fighter Ranger Cleric is really good! Ranger can take the Spear perk to assist in melee while keeping a but a range if needed

[lethal willow]

i playing the fighter rn but i can't loot good stuff i don't know how to loot good stuff and i getting f*cked by everything, everywere and by anyone

[waxen rain]

ohh so that's why I saw 3 different builds "meta" in a single week. Thx u very much dilo

[cobalt mica]

Honestly most combinations are at least okay until you're going up against experienced players in gear. Having at least one who can reliably heal the team is nice to have while learning though, and clerics best for that

[cosmic swan]

Well if you'r new that going to happen with every class. Fighter right now is probably the best class anyway. You just need to be patient and keep trying and learning the game

@waxen rain Good luck and Have fun

[wild matrix]

whats the build for panther driud? whats a good amount of agility / vigor should i have and does strength and dex give panther more dmg or only agility

[cobalt mica]

At the moment I don't think many are running panther builds since the nerf, but generally it was just stacking agi for damage. #druid will give you better answers though

[subtle heart]

better to go bear nowadays

[waxen rain]

luck in your journeys Dilo

[undone jacinth]

I recommend joining The Hall of Knights! #🔗links has the server linked, they have guides and more there for you! ❤️

[waxen rain]

Oh!! thx u so much Miss Warden

[undone jacinth]

Ms. * 😉

[undone jacinth]

💛 anytime my friend

[waxen rain]

I got confused, my apologies, thx u for your service

[undone jacinth]

No apologies needed

[subtle heart]

does str increase crossbow dmg ?

[lethal willow]

sooo what class do you recommend on start? or 13h gameplay

[mellow ice]

Improved operational functions and server stability.

[charred phoenix]

so many toxic players, after chasing me blud decided to bring an army of mummies/zombies and camped the red stairs with the mobs hitting his shield and all that to stop me from going in... got killed by swarm...

[wanton otter]

Ye all Physical damage scales with Physical *Power Bonus, and Physical Power bonus scales from STR primarily.

[lime coral]

tried to do cave troll but a rogue was sitting in the door across from me so his AI was tweaking lmao

[hollow coral]

Type base coldown timings on skills

[lethal willow]

everyone question, full geared or not?

[waxen rain]

Sorry for bothering Miss Cat... But, I must ask... cuz I'm new here... Do you know where I can ask about builds?

[fathom forge]

Nerf cleric.

[undone jacinth]

I'd strongly recommend joining The Hall of Knights! #🔗links

[undone jacinth]

They've got build guides, PVP guides, PVE guides, a request a knight system for new players! tons more as well

[waxen rain]

in what channel may I ask?

thx u very very much

[undone jacinth]

It'll be called Knight Forums

[undone jacinth]

Very welcome my friend 💛

[lethal willow]

f*ck this game toxic warlock one shot me and start teabugging

i changing my class into toxic rouge on invisibility backstabbing fighters

[charred phoenix]

one shot with dark offering?

[tacit mist]

HOW THE HECK DO I KILL THE TROLL!?

[violet wedge]

Whoever decided to add warlock and wizard with these broken spells needs to be removed from the dev team. As a fighter it is almost impossible to have fun whilst pvping against these broken and annoying a** classes.

[lime coral]

circle to the right, run away when he grips the club with both hands, don't get hit by the roar

[elfin summit]

skeleton champ can drop golden key right

[drowsy iris]

There's no benefit in completing the Pelt Pursuit quest for the weaponmaster unless I want the items, right?

[violet wedge]

Yes, like a .4 drop or something

[subtle heart]

complaining about wizard
anyways just get a longbow and hit ur shots warlock cant do anything about it

[lime coral]

trying to bum rush spellcasters is never really a good idea because the book has like, -10 move speed while weapons will be -20+

[balmy spindle]

Hey I'm brand new trying out the free version. Which merchant sells new race options?

[violet wedge]

They can just run away... I don't want them to run away. I shoot them with bows and get them low and they just leech mobs its f*cking ridiculous. The whole map should not be allowed to be your own personal campfire

[turbid pine]

Not in the Merchant tab, but the Shop tab (all the way to the right)

[balmy spindle]

Ah, soooo, not available in the version? I think the only option there is the upgrade to the fullgame

[drowsy iris]

It's available, but it'd take a huge amount of time to unlock them.

[violet wedge]

Not to mention. Warlocks can lifesteal off their OWN HYDRA whilst blocking a doorway with it. That should not be allowed at all. And the lifesteal gives a bunch of hp back.

[turbid pine]

Races aren't exclusive to legendary status

[subtle heart]

ok then dont fight. some classes counter others thats typically how games work

[balmy spindle]

Oooh I see the tab at the top now. Thank you guys

[violet wedge]

Then they just chase me.

[drowsy iris]

The darkness cannot be overcome. Cower next to a door and pray they grow weary of you.

[turbid pine]

375 extracts
(or 186 Abyss/Inferno extracts--they count double)

[violet wedge]

Then they have the hellfire or whtever its called

[balmy spindle]

Man I am getting absolutely stomped. I wish there was a training grounds type thing for me to just learn the lay of the land

[lime coral]

cyclops chain blinded me gah damn

[subtle heart]

get good

[drowsy iris]

Forsooth! Is there ANYTHING they can't do?!

[violet wedge]

There's interactive maps that u can use to see all parts of the maps, shrines, alters, boss spawns, etc.

[balmy spindle]

I literally just started you desk troll

[turbid pine]

step 1 is learning the PvE
pick one map (ideally goblin caves or ice cavern) to learn and just play that
while you're waiting for the rotation to switch, watch some youtube guides on each mob's attack patterns and how to dodge em

[violet wedge]

Hes probably talking about me bc I'm ranting about a class that legitimately is annoying and kinda busted

[lime coral]

that or it was me getting dirt flung at me

[storm stratus]

Spending 4 hours all night to get 6 wraiths and 2 warlods and 0 liches is the epitome of quest design.

[subtle heart]

then quit whining

[devout ravine]

you can jump over the hydra

[violet wedge]

Dude.

[drowsy iris]

Let's all report Matthew.

[hollow cipher]

I've been getting PC crashes while playing dnd recently - anyone have the sa,e?

[violet wedge]

Yea u can, but depending on doorsize u can't. Plus, if you do they can just either 1. Melee you 2. Hellfire you or 3. Leech off you if they're low.

[lethal willow]

nah on this rouge i getting f*cked by everything im impressed by people who know how to play it

[devout ravine]

jump over it and bum rush them while they drain

[violet wedge]

My fighter build rn isn't quick enough to catch them when they do that. Do you have any armor pref when it comes to fighter builds?

[devout ravine]

i dont play fighter but you could probably catch up with sprint, and if not run a bow and shoot em

[violet wedge]

I run a bow but its longbow... should I use survival bow for quicker drawback in solos?

[devout ravine]

yes

[tawny robin]

Surv bow is probs the best weapon in solos

[violet wedge]

Ok ill try it, usually I avoid it unless its higher rarity bc of its base dmg

[tawny robin]

Unfortunately (or fortunately for the surv bow), the damage doesn't matter if you never get hit for it. Run away -> shoot them -> repeat -> eventually they die

[lime coral]

cyclops chained the triple swing into the kick
swear that's whats killed me two runs in a row

[violet wedge]

Yea ig ur right

[tawny robin]

He does that most of the time unless ur DPS is really high and you can skip to rockfall, or unless he just rolls a different attack. You should always back off though after triple swing or rock fall just in case he does stomp

[lime coral]

yeah ig, was gonna start to go behind him after the triple
figured out if I take my pants off I can avoid getting chain blinded thankfully

[balmy spindle]

If I join a duo or trio map without having a pre-made group, will it assign me random teammates?

[violet wedge]

No

[turbid pine]

No, you'll just be solo vs duos/trios

[subtle heart]

cyclops easiest boss ingame. just circle right and have enough dps for rock phase. to dodge chain attack you jump jump crouch.

[tawny robin]

Stomp can still hit behind, so you need to put distance not rotate around for stomp

[violet wedge]

If you want, ill play with you and teach you the stuff ik (it's not alot but it'll get you the hang of the game)

[lime coral]

yeah I remember that part from the tutorial

[subtle heart]

if you get stomped slowed you still have enough ms to circle rright and dodge his next attack as well

[stray badger]

any new players that just started playing?

[balmy spindle]

@stray badger that would be me

[vestal silo]

what is the easiest class to grind ap solo?

[proven flare]

why does the druid heals dont scale but the cleric's does

[tame oxide]

Wlock, fighter and rogue. Most of AP comes from killing mobs and looting sellables

[lime coral]

weaponsmith is really softlocking me with the gold bar requirement

[charred phoenix]

buy them on market 🙂

[frigid widget]

Question on weapons:

1. Which blunt weapon has the longest range?
2. Why don’t people run quarterstaff? Higher ms, can still block
3. What is the best blunt weapon?
4. Is war maul viable?

[subtle heart]

barb. take crush and smack every object.

[peak hinge]

Do you guys know if the stats for every 5 values (For example: 19 Str vs 20 Str/14 Str vs 15 Str) makes a big difference?

[lime coral]

1. probably war maul
2. I just hate how it swings
3. not too sure
4. also not too sure

[jolly night]

i think from memory surgeon questline or someone else give 2 bar of gold as reward

[lime coral]

yeah I kinda forgot that that's possible
how many quests til the last rep reward, last one of remember your heritage?

[charred phoenix]

https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Quests

[lime coral]

yeah last of the line

[charred phoenix]

darkanddarker .wiki and .map really goated website

[lime coral]

yeah I have em open, namely the squire page

[cinder steppe]

i have a question or 2 if someone can help me. im trying to understand how i can increase my poison damage as rogue. i no that +1 additional magic damage is the best way ( i think, correct me if im wrong please ) but are there any other ways like increasing my will? Will says it also improves my buff / debuff duration so does that mean having a higher will, will increase the length of how long my poison is applied to someone?

[marble otter]

1. Maul but its not worth it.
2. They hate the range and swing pattern. I like it and run it on priest cleric or druid.
3. I would say morningstar is the most well rounded in damage and armor pen. Swing pattern is nice too.
4. No. Its too slow, range too low and the damage isnt worth the hits. Its very unforgiving and has no block. Its pattern has bad intro attacks.

[cobalt brook]

true magical damage on your rings/neck/helm/cape etc and the will stat technically increases your magical power bonus but im pretty sure the poison scaling is quite low and really doesnt go as high as you want when hardstacking will and magical damage

[tame oxide]

Maul
Horrible damage, range, animation and it's 2handed
Morningstar
Viable yes, but not the best. Gets worse the more experienced players you fight.

[lime coral]

I've really been liking the mace and morningstar but war maul is also very fun

[cinder steppe]

thank you so much

[lethal willow]

rouge is not easiest character i played

[storm stratus]

To whomever skeleton bro team didn't intrude on our lich kill just now, if you see this thank you. Ended a 30hour grind of bullshit getting ganked nonstop.

[vestal silo]

Thanks. Does crushing chests count as opening them in terms of ap? What kind of build would I opt for?

[subtle heart]

yes. Id go bardiche and potion chugger with robusut as well

[thorn nimbus]

Take a ton of frans if you go chugger tho
For the last perk you can take the one that gives dmg when you lose HP

[lethal willow]

yoo dimo do you have youtube channel?

[jade lake]

very balanced that cleric gets full hp in 15 sec :DDDDDD
also gets god mode PDR for free because their class is definitely balanced in plate
DW NOT BROKEN

[lime coral]

where the hell are the blood platforms in the howling crypts
maps don't show it

[vestal silo]

its in inferno. Inferno 1

[lime coral]

god damnit I would've brought a pickaxe if I knew

[obtuse bison]

its indeed balanced, he is slow, there's space to outplay him

[jade lake]

too bad he gets MS for 2 gold

[vestal silo]

what class you playing?

[viscid cave]

Why cant I open my game, is not connecting

[jade lake]

fighter bard it doesnt matter cuz this class is autism to fight

[vestal silo]

those are very tough matchups yes. Your best bet is to kite and poke. Keep your distance. That is the one weakness of the cleric; he has no range and he is slow

[jade lake]

it has ranged magic there is simply no fundamental flaw to the class besides its MS problem which everyone suffers from

[obtuse bison]

git gud

[vestal silo]

his ranged attack is very limited and very easy to dodge. I'm not saying its gonna be easy for you. Cleric is def very strong vs physical melee classes, but that is probably the only way you will have a chance against him. It's your one advantage; namely speed and range

[turbid pine]

he only has 4 uses of Holy Strike before needing to sit to restore spell slots

[jade lake]

ill accept im ass at pvp but looking through this class it plays itself unless you outstat it

[jade lake]

i would say it's just gambling when i have to eventually face this class but with MS plate meta everyone and their mother is playing this shit

[midnight iris]

Fix your game please. Fighting buffballs and naked rat druids all raid is boring as fuck!

[thorn nimbus]

His builds arent particularly cheap
Also as a fighter you can absolutely beat him with longsword surv bow
With bard you outrun him but you cant really win in a 'fair' fight have to run circles and poke with surv bow

[vestal silo]

game is not really balanced around solos. It's been a problem forever. So many classes/builds hardcounter other classes/builds.

[jade lake]

what the fuck am i supposed to beat as bard? barbs? everyone beats barbs because they are 2 iq orangutans on fisher price toys

[rocky lagoon]

shoot bow to lower their hp then go in with shriek

[thorn nimbus]

On bard you can beat every class in solo because you have have the 2nd best util
Its just very hard to play well

[vestal silo]

are you consitently utlizing shriek of weakness?

[obtuse bison]

plate ms meta? what game are u playing, its opposite things. U can just play around his skills, either wait out smite, play around angles for judgement, healing doesnt actually matter that much, u can reset anytime u want, plate is not known for its ms

[thorn nimbus]

Also yeah cleric isnt faster than bard not in any world
If you have the speed on instruments and the door opening song you can literally perpetually run from a cleric and he will NEVER catch up

[jade lake]

i would argue doing lament -> shriek gets me killed more than actually trying to deal damage at all
@rocky lagoon why can't every other class do this, there is basically one class (barb) that doesn't have ranged options to poke before confirming kills
@thorn nimbus why the fuck would i take unchained? it's a waste of memory

[distant plume]

are the gs brackets messed up?

[obtuse bison]

ranged barb? ok this guy is trolling

[thorn nimbus]

Every class except for barb and cleric have decent ranged options
Druid doesnt but his mobility is so insane that it doesnt matter

[silk schooner]

if i rank up to demigod on solo highroller lets say as well as demigod on trio high roller, how many rewards do i get? do they stack?

[vestal silo]

the item rewards are stacked(you get a rewards for each character that reaches the rank). The cosmetics rewards are account based, so it doesnt matter which character you get it on. You will have access to it on all characters.

[silk schooner]

im talking about the same character but different modes. would the items stack then?

[jade lake]

enjoy your inevitable nerf i guess

[obtuse bison]

i never played cleric, ur just too bad to even understand the game, git gud

[jade lake]

nah i understand the game but game is just ass when u perma face this shit cuz youtuber #34889034 is spamming it in pathfinder alt

[thorn nimbus]

Tf are u talking about barb has the worst ranged out of any class with ranged options

[jade lake]

i dont think u know how to read lolz

[obtuse bison]

idk what game are u playing, but in dnd cleric meta is over with the last patch, currently everyone spams rogues warlocks and fighter

[jade lake]

i would love to face warlocks i eat those timmys for breakfast

[split radish]

you guys got any fast ranger builds plus gear

[thorn nimbus]

? What is your problem
You are complaining that BARD is weak
Bard the strongest or 2nd strongest class in the damn game rn
Also after the buffs fighter is honestly more broken than cleric if you can actually play the game

What is it 30% speed penalty reduction and no downside of running any damn weapon ?
Bruh you can run a bardiche with a surv bow in full plate you can run a damn crystal sword if you want to and make a decent build out of that even
How can you complain that fighter cant kill cleric when they buffed him this much

[vestal silo]

Actually I dont know, but would be very surprised if they do.

[lime coral]

this wizard would rather kill himself on spikes than let me get my kill for a quest

[vestal silo]

is there anyone that will miss the mummy spiders if they got removed?

[jade lake]

nice ragebait rofl.
never complained about my own class (primarily bard) besides when @vestal silo asked for it
i already said plate is too strong which means ur just repeating the points i have spoken already
if u just wanna steal my thunder then i would have kindly given to u but u sound like a barb main with ur verbal diarrhea
but thanks for advice i guess on telling me shit i already know lolz
so stay free?

[vague viper]

Im able to kill troll and cyclops but i dont have time to mine? any tips?

[thorn nimbus]

Ok you are just a shrodingers idiot I see

[obtuse bison]

kill them faster lol

[vestal silo]

better gear

[jade lake]

and you're just being a smartass, not sure if you think you're winning an award for this one bud

[thorn nimbus]

Already won with your complaining ez

[jade lake]

anyways i killed a geared cleric because of @vestal silo advice so ez i guess and enjoy your award of being the same iq of a barb player

[tame oxide]

Every class in the game. Bard is the best class in the game

[thorn nimbus]

Said the guy complaining about cleric v fighter when fighter is this OP rn

[quasi storm]

Well the shield perk says 50% action speed towards next block. But its bugged rn and applies to next weapon swing

[tame oxide]

"block or attack" regards wiki. Can't check in-game tho. IM quality

[ashen thicket]

To get that don't you need to hold attack while being hit?

[tame oxide]

??

[quasi storm]

the in game says 50% as towards next block. typical im

[stone vapor]

What was the update today?

[desert orchid]

at squire lvl is recurve better for fighter than survival since its dmg is so low at 24gs

[wraith olive]

Is it allowed for someone to specate and direct other players where other players are? Because I just had that happen in my game

[abstract spire]

do bosses regen once they lose a track of player ?

[jaunty flower]

Anyone got tips on the lich boss just got the quest for him?

[desert orchid]

yes

[abstract spire]

so no cheesing ?

[desert orchid]

no unless u mean ur teammat ebeing ranger and sniping boss from outside of arena while ur juking it

[bleak tulip]

i cant connect to a lobby

[desert orchid]

at least u havent died 3 hours in a row like me trying to learn parry on troll

the hit that always kills me is the attack he does from his left to his right when im going left waiting for him to do overhead attack to parry

[coarse dock]

i feel like quarterstaff animations should be changed to where it functions more like a spear/blunt polearm

[flint charm]

You’ll get him, i believe in you bro

[wheat cairn]

kinda surprised that we didn't get a larger patch this week?

[desert orchid]

I just killed him in the run im in, even got a few parries in too

[tame oxide]

They're probs cooking up stuff for the next season by now and the new matchmaking system

[jaunty flower]

Don’t we got a month or 2 left at least though?

[wheat cairn]

its my understanding that its supposed to end at the start of september or at least thats the rumor

[jaunty flower]

Ahhh okay I started when it went free so I was just going with what someone told me that the leaderboard would say when but that makes sense just gotta grind a bit more heavy to finish up the last few quest lines I got them for the cosmetics

[exotic flax]

Troll parry is easy, in hr don't. In normals strafe right and you can kill troll in literally like 30 seconds from parrying

[manic vine]

does anyone wanna play, nvm i didnt see a lfg channel

[desert orchid]

I went left. The attack that kills me is when I go left and he does the swing from his right so close to me to his left and I expect him to slam down but he does the attack from his right to his left where I am and I get killed

[jaunty flower]

Right side worked way better for me when I would fight him

[desert orchid]

do u only parry the downward slam

[jaunty flower]

No but for me preference at least I found it easier to parry and dodge going to his right cause I was able to tell more clearly what he was doing but it’s really preference I feel like just do what your comfortable with and you’ll get it in no time honestly

[reef island]

what buffs does frost walker skin gives?

[jaunty flower]

Also cause I’m a idiot it also helped me to watch a dude someone told me about Ryan6daysaweek cause his videos have some great in depths guides on attack patterns and parry or dodge techniques

[tame oxide]

Ryan6daysaweek and notlikethis have great PvE guides

[vestal silo]

damn landmines

[cobalt kettle]

Best froststone ore crafts to make a profit?

[subtle heart]

are there still golden doors in the game or are the golden keys useless rn?

[zenith copper]

I think fighter needs a buff to his range damage and sprint skill. Also, he should have night vision to instantly see rogues in stealth. Oh and laser vision that zaps those rogues in stealth.

[violet wedge]

So when are we gonna rework the broken warlock class huh?

[whole terrace]

Only broken thing about warlock is the ability to demolish PvE

[violet wedge]

Definitely not the only broken thing. Warlock literally makes the map their own campfire with the lifesteal ability. It needs nerfed harder

[whole terrace]

It doesn't even have that big of a heal anymore. Life drain is worse than ever and torture mastery has a 3x cost multiplier and 0.05 magical healing scaling.

[violet wedge]

... have you never fought a warlock before? 1. You can't get close bc they just run and throw hydra in doorway 2. If you get them low they run and throw hydra and lifesteal 3. If you do get close you get 1 hit off and they run 4. If you use a bow they hide behind a door.

[whole terrace]

Every time I see a warlock I destroy them, unless they have noticeably higher MS than me.

[violet wedge]

The life drain still gives a huge amount of health. They are able to heal more in 1 game then I get to in 3 games

[violet wedge]

Then I must be vs the top 10 warlocks aot

[tame oxide]

Kill the hydra, jump over it. You need to pressure hard against em. If you let em life drain, it's a skill issue

[main raven]

Killing the Hydra is too impractical unless you deal insane damage

[ripe tinsel]

What is the advice?

[violet wedge]

Not only that but u can't pressure them if they're just faster

[ripe tinsel]

They are only faster if you are cleric or fighter in plate, and then you have ranged options

[violet wedge]

If I use bow they run away and heal.

[main raven]

You do know that Plate Fighter is probably the worst matchup against a Lock right

[frail merlin]

Late response but just so you know for the future we do have lfgs channels here such as #lfg-europe #lfg-northamerica (and other regions too)

[whole terrace]

Same thing happens if a ranger is faster. That's just how the class works. - Also, if they run away to heal, you can do the same.

[main raven]

Rangers can't heal their entire health bar in ten seconds for free lmao.

[violet wedge]

Yay a fight thats based off who has more heals. Which the warlock does ofc

[manic vine]

Ty

[ripe tinsel]

Then chase, they can't heal faster than you find them

[whole terrace]

Warlock curse of pain deals 7 magic damage and then 10 (0.5) over 5 seconds. - @main raven and ranger is a better ranged damage dealer. - Boys idk what to tell you except skill issue.

[tame oxide]

It takes 2 hits

[main raven]

Someone has absolutely no idea how chip damage works

[eager plover]

I just realized i am not getting any blue shards with extractions, am at 4th triumph now. is this a thing?

[woven patrol]

Does anyone else get their game screen totally black on random?

[main raven]

Warlocks win by attrition, and they are very good at attrition. Plus, CoP has double scaling, with 100% on the initial hit and 50% on the DoT which you conveniently didn't mention.

Oh, and its also hitscan which you didn't mention either

[eager plover]

never had that no..

[silent karma]

Hydra is 2 shot in low gear, 1 shot by barbs, what are you on

[woven patrol]

I am having this really annoying issue that my game screen gets totally black and i can not do anything about it unless i reload the game

[main raven]

Hydra has 150 HP unless it was nerfed. Its possible to kill in a few hits, but assuming the Warlock is Lifedraining off of it, they've already got their HP back before you can kill it

[broken tangle]

haha

[ripe tinsel]

??? it has 150 health, for rogue it it is at least 3, with bad gear even more

[kindred nexus]

rogue dead lets go

[whole terrace]

lmao rogue just got shit on XDD

[remote matrix]

rip sneaky rogues

[main raven]

I mean the game's only fun when Rogues are shit, lets be honest lmao

[silent karma]

A warlock won't be life draining if you're pressuring but whatever, keep crying

[limber wharf]

as a rogue hater. these nerfs are kinda crazy the class will be useless now surely

[outer pollen]

so stealth is near pointless now...save in the dark maybe

[rare dew]

https://tenor.com/view/rip-bozo-gif-22294771

[broken tangle]

gamers cant hold constructive conversations about classes lets nip it in the bud

[dreamy field]

I think ironmace doesn't want rouge to be a class

[main raven]

I'm not crying; I'm just not playing the game at all until they fix some of this shit

@outer pollen Hide shouldn't even grant full invisibility

[whole terrace]

Game is not fun when rogues are shit. It is fun when rogue is not balanced around being a landmine. Invisibility is bad for the game, but it is rogues only good trait as it is now.

[broken tangle]

perhaps something that interacts with shadows is more suitable than magic invisibility

[vestal grail]

broo why cant i break stuff with longsword now

[violet wedge]

Dude. He shoots curse of pain and runs. ???

[main raven]

My point exactly. Landmine has been the only viable build Rogues have ever had

[ripe tinsel]

Rogue's Creep now has a narrow hearing range - what does this mean?

[idle jay]

@broken tangle true good idea.

[broken tangle]

narrow in the same way gamers are 😄

[zealous skiff]

RIP Rogue

[cosmic swan]

Well, too bad. (Seriously, of course they wont rework it that fast buy they choose the easy way to nerf it. A bit sad but that was expected)

[bitter pumice]

warlock still untouched.

[broken tangle]

warlock nerfed 2 patches in a row. no?

[cosmic swan]

Let them time, the warlock nerf time will come. Hopefully it will be something more interesting that what they just did on rogue. This would be awesome https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/564808/rework-of-warlocks-healing-mechanic
@kindred nexus

[hot moth]

magic op but yea nerf rogue this is some nerf miner shit but they actually are nerfing the miner

[kindred nexus]

warlock doesnt need numbers changes, they need to reinvent the class, something that heals that fast without expending resources will always be op as long as we are in a move speed meta

[bitter pumice]

barely. they still can steal life from their own hydra, dot 3 pve enemies and damn near live forever through anything, spam abilities with no real downside because one curse gives it all back

[scarlet bronze]

But ttey got nerfed last patch and the one before that too. Tm is gutted and cop base damage is 7

[broken tangle]

new POE season today. Melee reworked. Previously all melee required totems. So the devs just deleted the totems from the game. how about that. Just delete.

[main raven]

TM's still viable honestly; you just can't TM on hydra

[half tree]

landmine rogue lives on

[scarlet bronze]

I didnt say it was not viable. I said that is gutted. Only worth it for bossing in normals with base gear

[manic shell]

YES!! ROGUE IS DEAD AGAIN!!

[main raven]

Considering gear almost makes no difference I'd have to agree

[zealous skiff]

Dead landmine. You step on it but nothin happen

[brazen zephyr]

did they forget that rogue has pickpocket and that literally kills that part of the class too XD man ironmace are extremely bad at balancing they kill a class on a whim XD and i dont even play rogue

[half tree]

i mean landmine doesn't use creep and doesn't move so no outline

[vapid arch]

i wish they could give rogue an identity that's effective and interactive instead of just buffing and nerfing landmine and range spam

[cosmic swan]

Well that's the probleme they nerfed the hide part of rogue not the landmine part and that where the issues really is about rogue

[zealous skiff]

Ironmace are far from bad at balancing. They doing quite a good job. Just give them time

[scarlet bronze]

But. Rogue landmine remains the same., just easier to spot when moving

[violet wedge]

JUST DIED TO ANOTHER F*CKING WARLOCK. PLEASE NERF THIS BROKEN CHARACTER

[whole terrace]

nerf miner XDDD

[oblique zenith]

Where is the copper ore located?

[half tree]

🧢

[zinc shard]

play ranger

[brazen zephyr]

XD man the cope is strong..... and yet cleric and warlock are still a thing

[azure ibex]

W UPDATE

[ripe tinsel]

So does anyone know what nerf to creep actually is, how easy it is to hear now?

[violet wedge]

I'm lvl 90 fighter without legendary stat... so I can't, and I'm prob not gonna buy the game if they want to have a character this busted

[half tree]

its been like 15mins doubt anyone on here has playtested

[patent hatch]

Lets guess and say, you can hear sound within 10 feet. So you can hear steps as they get close.

[brazen zephyr]

keep in mind that rogue other skills have charges AND they dont recharge at fires... again dont even play rogue but not hard to see that will kill the class just remove it and rework it to be a trickster class

[zealous skiff]

Well even league of legend and dota2 still do balance changes ... So what do we expect.

[zinc shard]

ok. bye bye

[drowsy viper]

Goys, whats the point of rogue now

[zenith copper]

All those "XD's"

[violet wedge]

Ok, you're corny

[whole terrace]

Bro, please. Fighter Warlock matchup is good for warlock, such is life. Warlock is mega-nerfed and you just haven't figured out how to play the matchup.

[brazen zephyr]

that is true but when let say riot changes thing they dont nerf thing by 50-100%+ like ironmace does

[patent hatch]

I'm all for the new rogue changes, if they bring back that rogues can pickpock the weapons and armor from players. At that point, that much risk and challenge needs reward

[burnt pivot]

how you going to destroy a class in 1 patch lmfao awful patch when you got unkillable bonk wizards and other trash lmao

[zenith copper]

Idk "stealth" builds in PvP have always been the cowards griefer class for people who have crippling IRL anxiety.

[ornate acorn]

God of spacing, still insane burst DPS, cutthroat to shut down gimmicks/magic, uncatchable via speed/stealth/interaction speed if not under DoT/range pressure, landmine still decent if you can predict their precise pathing at the cost of slightly more warning

[cosmic swan]

For all the people who are happy about this rogue nerf. Yes it solve the rogue issue but no it's not a good nerf. The problem is not Hide or Creep, it's the landmine mechanics and that's untouched. Yes rogue will pretty much become useless now (especially the pickpocket build), but that's until the next buff. We need landmine rogue to be reworked by something like this -> https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/563627/rogue-rework-suggestion-master-of-poisons (Read the comment too and upvote if you like the idea )

[main raven]

God of spacing? We're not talking about Bards, right?

[ornate acorn]

Bards are just a different breed, gods of everything

[zenith copper]

Just give enemies a bigger patrol route and have them reignite doused lights. That way rogues couldn't just camp in a dark corner of a darker room. (See what I did there? 😉 )

[zealous skiff]

Well some class problem because the skill floor and skill celling are way to far.

Gread bard will be OP but bad bard worse than goblin

[jaunty topaz]

so pickpocket is just unplayable now right chat

[cosmic swan]

Well that would just make rogue even more useless?

[vestal junco]

I upvoted like a week ago. Developers just made Rogues absolutely useless. They can't hide well, they don't got good health and they don't have good speed. Meanwhile, you have Fighter TANKS, moving like a damn Kawasaki Ninja H2 in top speed. Fuck outta here.

[brazen zephyr]

dead it a useless playstyle now XD no more having fun that way

[prisma valley]

if you ever thought this game was being balanced correctly you were wrong. Landmine is still the same, the only difference is that now it's the only way to play rogue

[ripe tinsel]

Then it would probably say "creep now has limited range" or something, instead it has weird formulation of "narrow hearing range", the hell that supposed to mean?

[zealous skiff]

If ironmace bad at balance then it would be like druid in dungeonborne you can run so fast and shoot at range

[violet wedge]

I play fighter and I move slow asf. Can't catch anyone. Using bow is useless bc everyone runs. Pvp is not fun bc everyone just runs and kites you.

[ripe tinsel]

Actually i would be down for it, even though rogue my most played class

[prisma valley]

yeah druid was not op at all in this game for months! Does dungeonborn also have bard?

[brazen zephyr]

dude get off ironmaces dck already they will killa class at anytime

[ornate acorn]

'Narrow' is sometimes used to describe something with a small scope. It's probably just an English thing

[tulip field]

To many people complaining about rogue. Honestly it's not even bad... rogue slaps. I never use hide. Rupture and cut throat are just to op

[ripe tinsel]

oh yeah ,i read it, sounds really great. Although it won't solve issue of rogues being shit in fair 1v1 fights

[stable sundial]

Crazy how rogue gets nerfed harder into being forced into landmine while warlock, bard, and cleric remain untouched.

[violet wedge]

Idk why they complain about rogue when we have warlock and cleric

[cosmic swan]

Think in the long term. Imo they just did that really rough nerf for rogue because he was maybe the class people complained the more about. Imo they're going to slowly rebuff it from here. Or will finally work on a real rework/deep balance of the rogue

[brazen zephyr]

i never had any problem with rogue but people dont like that they cant w key forward and die sometime but they dont complain when they 2 hit them when they get caught out XD

[vestal junco]

Wut?! You need to talk to Fighter mains cuz you definitely doing something wrong lol xD

[ripe tinsel]

Insane burst dps does not matter if you have reach of T-rex, but health of a glass straw. Like even before nerfs you could jump on a fighter with triple stop with weakpoint, he turns around and 2-shots you. Now you can't even get that jump

[violet wedge]

I've watched a handful of build tuts, pvp tuts, pve tuts etc

[vestal junco]

I always get caught by Fighters... so idk what to tell you.

[ripe tinsel]

Judging from recent patch notes they make balancing decision acting on what people cry about the most

[cosmic swan]

The game is supposed to be balanced for 3vs3, Always have been and it didn't look like ut will change when they talked about it last Q&A. (Also rogue is actually quit strong in 1vs1. The issues right now us that figther and cleric who are the "hard to kill" class for rogue are strong)

[zealous skiff]

Maybe use double jump to get the jump

[violet wedge]

What class are you? The only classes I despise are warlock and wizard everything else is easy

[vestal junco]

Rogue .-.

[bitter pumice]

the main issue is. it isnt rocket science to figure out the glaring issues within the balance of the game. either the devs dont play their own game. or they simply dont care

[zealous skiff]

I agreed. Not every fight is winable for every class. You just need to know when to avoid fight in 1on1 situation

[cosmic swan]

Yes, because they kinda try to start from a new clear base, so they don't hesitate to nerf everything. We are in the first phase of rebala'cing the game. They changed their philosophie about Balancing recently (go check the Q&A)

[whole terrace]

I should not be balanced around 3vs3. This is the least played gamemode.

[broken tangle]

The game need more game modes to figure out class balance

[past robin]

Rogues do stupid dmg

[zealous skiff]

It would be crazy work to make each class doing different things at different party size mode

[broken tangle]

Most of all i want 0-124 in high roller. Makes no sense to me that the only available ranking and their rewards are gated behind the poorly curated game mode that is uncapped gearscore 😄

[ripe tinsel]

Check where? Can you summurise it?

[jolly night]

You will enjoy getting stomped by mega bis and you will like it

[zenith copper]

Not at all. It just means they'd have to engage with the game more and play their class as a sneaky, pro-active assassin who creeps about, lurking in every corner. Instead of, as it's aptly called, a landmine.

Sitting in a single corner all game just to insta-gib players and ignore all other content defeats the point of playing a PvEvP. If people want to grief, they can. The game allows it. But no one takes griefers complaints seriously.

[broken tangle]

im just looking at the POE new league countdown timer i can do what i want 😄

[past robin]

Its the best loot in the game, uncapped makes sense. Big L

[split radish]

guys i just need a fast ranger build i need help😭😭

[cosmic swan]

Onepeg's channel. No sry it's a 1-2 hours long video. But a lot of very interesting thing for the futur

[drowsy viper]

So landmine, because everything you just named is just because they wear light armor, any class benefits the same

[jolly night]

NÒOOOOOOO YOUR SUPPOSED TO FUEL THE MACHIBE

[whole terrace]

? Go agility and lightfoot boots. That's about it. Add strength to it

[vague frigate]

samee here.
League in poe starts = season in DaD finishes for me 😄

[broken tangle]

Big L isnt constructive. When you say best loot do you mean players or pve? Either way, the game is best in 124 bracket. It takes the edge of most power deltas. Evens the playfield. And 124 is enough to make the pve interesting 🙂

[zealous skiff]

Chase perk is a must. Thats it

[split radish]

what are the good gears to bring in low gear score and should i use spear or rapier

[cosmic swan]

Well you're extrapoling the Landmine. Imo most of the rogue play the game normally but Ambush (that would be a better name for that build) people. We used to have more torche light on (it changed only a few week ago actually) the issues was the same

[zenith copper]

Are silver coins only purpose as a way to make silver ingots?

[broken tangle]

i look everywhere but i dont find a cheese perk :C

[past robin]

If you want easier lobbys, you play normal. Having -124 lobbys isnt fair to the loot available, its litterly items worth 50k+ and you want lobbys to have kits under 1k. Very weird and makes 0 sense

[ornate acorn]

Rogue should get a Trickster Memory where they can cast shadow-spells that snuff out nearby light sources (perhaps converting them into 'darklights' that highlight enemies in the dark to the player and their allies), darken/shorten player vision, cause audio/visual hallucinations, or obscure player HUD/info. Basically let them invest a skill slot that scales with Resourcefulness to inflict powerful but deliberate info debuffs that could combo with stealth/spacing

Oops didn't mean to reply my bad

[low flume]

hi guys, how long do you think we have untill next wipe? I thinking about to start grinding AP but i do not know if i have a time

[zealous skiff]

Spear is way better in general. With spear mastery even better and with backflit it quite good.

Rapier is just rapier.

[jolly night]

A spell that spawns a decoy person (from afar look real but close up its easy to tell) or noise makers

[ornate acorn]

Yeah I feel like a trickster archetype that can play on the paranoia and confusion that a game like DnD generates would be a super fun direction to take Rogue

[ripe tinsel]

... but that makes no sense, that landmine style actually still viable, it is active rogues who got punished

[broken tangle]

I dont feel that you are understanding the arguments and just jump to conclusions about what you think they mean. All im saying is the uncapped mode is anti-competitive in the classic sense. So using that as a baseline for the competition rewards feels a bit incoherent. Im not saying to remove uncapped. Im saying, include a bracket for those that want a more streamlined and coherent ladder experience.

[ripe tinsel]

No, confusion and paranoia are gone after like 10 hours of the game, so that is not a good way to balance, it will be underpowered as hell against experienced players

[past robin]

Thats what normal is for, it exists. No need to make high roller , Low roller for bad people

[zealous skiff]

But the seasonal reward are in highroller

[molten meadow]

this is so boring to see how IM are clueless about balancing the rogue. They bounce back and forward from making it OP and then destroying it again ...Soon you will hear a rogue using Hide 4 modules around. Pls rework the class, give him different tools to work with, this is pathetic.

[broken tangle]

You arent providing any arguments or i dont understand you. Perhaps we shouldnt continue.

[tulip field]

@ornate acorn sooo you want to further ruin the rogue that everyone enjoys so much?

[ornate acorn]

Well cutting off vision range would be quite straightforward and impactful, and the hallucinations could be quite powerful--imagine thinking you're hearing a hydra get summoned in the next room over or see one appearing behind you, but it's actually just big cap from the rogue you're fighting; it would always cause people to recalculate their decisions and create at least some advantage

[tropic zealot]

Anyone know why Rogue stealth got suddenly nerfed?

[vapid arch]

because it was strong, unfair and unfun

[ornate acorn]

They wanted to limit the flexibility of the landmine rogue playstyle. The effect is that it's hurt other styles of playing rogue as well, and thus the class is currently in a little bit of limbo

[violet wedge]

Bc the devs don't play their own game to see what the actual problem is with it

[broken tangle]

let it burn a while it will rise from the ashes like a felix

[ripe tinsel]

Actually that would be dope, i always loved idea of illusion magic in all games. B ut not sure how it would work in DaD, considering it is inspired by DnD, and arcane trickster is not that

[tropic zealot]

Wierd change, since Rogue cant move anyways unless they have that one Perk

[sick pawn]

there was no other realistic playstyle of rogue

[jolly night]

IM devs spinning a wheel of classes then skills to buff/nerf

[ripe tinsel]

No, it is Southpark headless chicken

[broken tangle]

oh i like this idea. project 2 mirror images that all rush towards nearest target and the rogue needs to act like one of them. let it be 2-4 seconds or so.

[past robin]

Im saying that high roller doesnt need a baby cage cause it supposed to be a high roll, take the chance or play normal

[heady sandal]

player movements are always obivious compared to npcs

[ornate acorn]

Maybe not that powerful, but clone jitsu would definitely need to be included in a trickster system

[ripe tinsel]

No, that is bad, in pvp it is really easy to figure who real one is, just by how copies moving. There was example like this in Nosgoth, stealth class who could create like 7 copies for 12+ seconds, and it was always easy to figure who real one is.

[jolly night]

Name is fitting dwarf

[ripe tinsel]

ya all forgetting that game is basically action extraction DnD game, so nothing that strays too far from it would see light. And as far as i know, there is only Wizards who can specialise in illusions, and Arcane Trickster has nothing of the sorts

[broken tangle]

it can be refined. the point is confusion not stealth. I mean if we are talking about illusion magic. Perhaps a solution is the mirror entites just copy the original

[broken tangle]

true. i love BG3 and i feel that nothing in DaD gives me a sense of DnD except in the overall themes. I wouldnt mind if they invented mechanics to suit the existing baseline rather than letting the inspiration dictate against sensibility 😄

[heady sandal]

wont cause any confusion

[ornate acorn]

I know the game's super about being close to DnD, but it would always be a welcome change of form to see them going in their own direction and trying to be peers with the thematic shoulders they stand upon 😺

[broken tangle]

All i hear are people that would answer "i can defeat a bear" to the polls where they get asked such things.

[jolly night]

Solution, rogues get a skill that allows them to deploy a mirror man Q or E slot

[heady sandal]

you mean the rats running through closed doors?

[broken tangle]

No i mean people that think they have a chance irl against bears. The confused ideas about how socially transferable their imaginary strength are.
Think Drax from Guardians.: "No joke goes over my head, i would catch it"

[heady sandal]

simple just let them show you

[broken tangle]

Everyone thinks they cant be fooled until they break their nose in the mirror house on the tivoli 😄

[manic shell]

They done rogue dirty, just like how rogue done every other class dirty before this hotfix.

[jolly night]

"Erm I can fight bear I took boxing lessons"

[broken tangle]

my fungus feet has natural resistance against forest ground material i will win

[jolly night]

I'll rub my feet on the ground causing static electricity and zap the beast

[ornate acorn]

Despite the raw good that nerfing landmine will do for the meta, there will still be barbarians standing on corners with achilles ready to two tap anyone who walks near them with 210 effective HP in their back pocket 😔

[broken tangle]

lightning ball, lightning ball, lightning ball!

[heady sandal]

yeah weird how a rogue could possibly kill one by getting the jump but now will repeatedly get shit on

[ornate acorn]

I am an advocate for a 'heavy breathing' sound effect when you linger in the same several meter radius for more than like, a minute while not resting

[broken tangle]

@jolly night
https://youtu.be/j_ekugPKqFw?si=UUFwA3BRh1SE-1JS

[jolly night]

"Cough cough, sniff, etc"

[broken tangle]

so rogues are dope fiends?

[lime pine]

Should be smt like an evil laughter

[ornate acorn]

It can't be a noise triggered by a player coming close, otherwise it would give undue info to the camper; would have to purely be a noise continuously audible

[stone falcon]

So rogue is not an issue anymore?

[broken tangle]

yall descibing a crack head who cant find their way out of the shadows. unless they see a shiny suit guy and they step out just to level with em about the conomy.

[lime pine]

That's exactly what a rogue is no?

[ornate acorn]

Lol

[jolly night]

Shiney shiney meez find a shiney

[broken tangle]

its not a power fantasy so the original rogue character is lost in translation 😄

[sly canyon]

The idea is that people have to be careful and not jsut w key smash into everything the rogue nerfs never end

[broken tangle]

A big problem with DaD and class image is that the power fantasy and immersive idea behind the themes are lost to what is effectively bringing home the loot. In a sense, every dungeoneer is a rogue at heart.

[jolly night]

New class lootgoblin has bigger inventory but makes constant noise

[lime pine]

I swear this is the power fantasy of rogues https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aSh0_siKEE

[flint charm]

Anyone have clip of how rogue stealth looks like now?? Pretty dumb to make a change like this and not show what it looks like lol

[broken tangle]

haha amazing

@jolly night I played a lot of mortal online 2. the character sizes have the range of the smallest is waist high to the tallest. Id love to see some big assymetry in these types of games. So i am a strong advocate for playable goblin 😄

[jolly night]

Overly sized sack as you skip away with your loot as you throw away the non shinies to the tall ones

[broken tangle]

anything can be a particle in Unreal Engines particle effect system. imagine the visuals 😄
They can even have individual environmental collisions
Omg i need to prototype this

[clever brook]

dont like what they do to the rogue

[broken tangle]

Anyway, when it comes to classes i think the quest for balance is detrimental when its done against these narrow game modes. I think the game would come closer to broad design maturity if they experimented more with the game modes.

[jolly night]

Just make each class op in an area so it's all balanced out

[lime pine]

To be fair, the combat and balance isn't feeling half bad, the game just lacks ALOT of quality of life, comparing against dungeonborne. There is quite a lot of functions that have been present in other 'similarish' games that would make the game 10x better., don't know why the choose not to implement them first

[nova garnet]

Finally you have to think while playing rogue and not just pass the enemy around with stealth on, best update ever

[wanton otter]

Ah, Rogues will have to sit still to maintain stealth and actually work around sightlines and express skill more to get free ins on folks.

[broken tangle]

i think the baseline of the game is amazing dont get me wrong. I just think its low yield to keep looking at classes against the current backdrop. The game can be so much more than just these modes.

[jolly night]

I want them to add a class out of left field sorta thing not just new class is barb but just fists are very strong

[lime pine]

I get what you mean, althought I feel like IM is putting too much effort developing the core game, rather than furnishing what could be a better experience for the player. I sometimes feels like an experiment subject rather than a paying customer if you know what I meant 😄

[maiden bough]

So many skill-less rogue players crying in general. Makes my happy. Sorry your class doesn’t get to move around invis with no sound or consequences anymore. If you needed that in the first place then you were never a good player to begin with. 😉

[broken tangle]

If it was my design i would make the character builder provide a stat choice at creation and then just provide all the perks in the game as flat access. where some unlocks weapon types and various interactions. But im not designing this game so dont mind me 😄

[maiden bough]

We basically had that with multi class and it was a disaster. Having access to all perks literally led to the same 2 cookie cutter builds over and over.

[deft lintel]

So.. Rogue dead?

[jolly night]

It's joever

[broken tangle]

its a common problem with pvp + early access. The games at a glance, gets all the polish in the immediate interactions to the point where systems that support content delivery and mobility of design gets less priority. Reaching 1.0 with a stiff baseline is fine but sometimes ya gotta stop listening to the pvp melee fantasy crowd 😄

[runic turtle]

No, rogue still good

[broken tangle]

i know the pitfalls about it. it wouldnt be suitable in the current game i agree. But i like the idea so im keeping it.

[cursive galleon]

rogue dead, just run invis potions on another class and rat better

[jolly night]

Thoughts on a class that on a kill they can become what they kill for a limited time (more time on weaker enemies)

[maiden bough]

The class isn’t dead. It’s just not as brainless as rogue players want it to be anymore. Have to actually turn on your brain a little bit to play the class now.

[deft lintel]

I mean, in trios I’m pretty sure it kills rogue. But for solos and duos, you just have to be even sneaker, but gameplay is about the same. (And toxic)

[runic turtle]

Damage wasn’t touched, this only hurts noob rogues who relied on hide too much

[subtle heart]

Rogue is amazing. PVP is fun and all, but I find it more thrilling to try and pickpocket people without getting caught.

[jolly night]

Ngl I'd rather rogues than fight the Tm curseloc who runs away while cackling go themselves

[cursive galleon]

you already have to have a brain to play the class, daggers are not easy for pve compared to things like spear and range, you get 2 shot by anything in the game, the stealth nerf is bad, it just kills the perk

[deft lintel]

Moving while still staying in stealth is still OP.

[subtle heart]

Wait, there was a stealth nerf? Not gonna lie, haven't played in a bit, nor read any patch notes.

[maiden bough]

Bro if you needed to be able to move around completely invis and with no sound on rogue to play the class, then you were never a good rogue. You were just abusing broken engagement perks.

[broken tangle]

rogue isnt a class its a state of mind just delete the template 😄

[runic turtle]

Exactly lmao

[cursive galleon]

that's the point of rogue, invisibility, otherwise you're just playing fighter with a dagger, with 100 hp

[jaunty grail]

Get gutted rouge's

[maiden bough]

Just say you only have success on rouge while it is OP. 🤣🤣

[broken tangle]

the point of rogue is despicable cutthroat anti hero romances

[nova garnet]

Nah, rogue's point is sneaking up on people. Being invisible just makes it without counterplay, if the rogue heard you first.

[maiden bough]

“I can’t move around the map with impunity and zero counter play anymore class is dead, why does IM hate rogue”

[cursive galleon]

this is a fantasy game, rogue in every game is the invis class, every class has access to invis with a potion, so the movement while invis is what separated it

[jolly night]

Barb is too stupid unless he knowledgemaxxxx

[nova garnet]

Well womp womp, other games is not an argument. That is dark and darkers balance not any other game balance.

[maiden bough]

It’s a fantasy game but it still needs to be balanced you nit wit. Rouge stealth movement with no detection or sound was BROKEN. You were just bad to begin with if you needed it to win.

[trim bramble]

IM keeps listening to crying youtubers thats why rogues are the weakest theyve ever been. no buffs just nerfs. again and again.

[cursive galleon]

it's because the youtubers want to go 100-0 and never die on stream, anything that kills them they complain

[runic turtle]

Skill issue, rogues were good and still good

[broken tangle]

just give door/chest crush to weapons and remove invis

[jolly night]

All in favour of giving rougue a skill that muffles audio ( halves sound when close complete silence when far)

[cursive galleon]

stealth only lasts around 6 seconds, and 10 steps, rogue is a 100hp class no armor

[trim bramble]

Rogue is the weakest class of them all. They have to pick their fights more than any other class and now their one-trick-pony has been nerfed to shit. You cant be serious.

[fierce crane]

Oh no, how will cancerous double crossbow rogue will play now? Oh, right...

[cursive galleon]

I agree with this

[trim bramble]

well thats all they have left now. great.

[nova garnet]

yeah but he outdamages every class that doesnt play plate armor. And if he catches a plate armor user off guard he also kills them before they can do anything

[runic turtle]

straight up wrong lmao. skill issue

[broken tangle]

its a game not a big conspiracy. IronMace does what they want its a private venture. There is no need to act like there is more at stake here than good or bad gameplay. There is no "other side" you need to brutalize for the sake of ventilation.

[maiden bough]

You are acting like 6 seconds and 10 steps isn’t a lot?? If the invis was so inconsequential then you wouldn’t be crying so much about these nerfs. Face it bro, you had to rely on over tuned broken perks to win on your class. Get better

[whole terrace]

which class is worse?

[zenith copper]

This kills the rogue

[trim bramble]

you didnt reply with an argument once. you dont have a point. you keep saying "skill issue" but you have no actual points. ima stop feeding the troll now.

[runic turtle]

because rogue is good and has been good. thinking its bad is skill issue

[maiden bough]

It doesn’t kill rouge, it just doesn’t make it the turn off your brain class that you rogue mains think it needs to be.

[jolly night]

Replace hide with a fade step, you leave a false after image or send out a decoy

[broken tangle]

whatever the changes are your options are to go with it.

[misty axle]

Rogue is the fastest class in the game, bring up right perk and decent gear can take out of juicer in very short ttk compare to other class.
this is why ppl calling them a landmine

[modern jasper]

Rogue is fine, get over it

[fierce crane]

Lol, no, it's not. Rogue's huge damage and stupid armor penetration didn't go anywhere. Now you'd just need to think a little and participate in real combat with dodging enemy attacks instead of just ratting someone in the back.

[south quartz]

Does luck affect Yeti teeth drop rate?

[trim bramble]

Dude i main rogue. You have no idea what you are talking about.
@fierce craneSeriously? have you ever played rogue? Do it. Get Two-Tapped by everything for 500 hours and come back and repeat what you just said.

[runic plank]

So when is the fighter nerf coming

[subtle heart]

With any luck, it does.

[runic turtle]

wizard gets two tapped aswell. that doesnt stop a class from being good

[maiden bough]

People saying the rogue class is dead now, never were good on the class in the first place if they needed invisible soundless movement to win. They are still just fine. Their damage didn’t get nerfed. You just don’t have free invisible movement anymore.

[whole terrace]

Wizard is ranged

[jolly night]

Erm use jokester and abuse double jump 🤓

[cursive galleon]

• Rogue vs Barbarian, Rogue dies in 1 Double Axe or Bardiche hit, Rogue takes 5-6 hits to kill a Barb
• Rogue vs Fighter, Rogue must take armor pen perks to have a chance, or else 2 falchion hits or 2 long sword hits kills a rogue
• Rogue vs Druid, Dreamwalk ability counters ambushing rogues
• Rogue vs Warlock, Phantomize and Falchion, dots, detection from Hydra counter Rogue
• Rogue vs Cleric, Cleric face tanks and 2 taps with Morning Star
• Rogue vs Wizard, better hope it's not bonk wizard, Rogue wins
• Rogue vs Ranger, Rogue wins
• Rogue vs Bard, Rogue wins

You only have 3 favorable matchups as rogue WITH stealth, without it there's no reason to play rogue, might as well play invisible potions and play another class

[broken tangle]

The only thing in this game that is dead is me when i get killed by everyone else 😄

[misty axle]

dude i been here since pt2 lol

[fierce crane]

Dude, half the classes get two-tapped, guess it really is a skill issue.

[analog sapphire]

broo, what did they do to rouge??? welp there is no point in useing creep anymore

[runic turtle]

you dont take hand crossbows and throwing knives? thats the problem my guy

[broken tangle]

yall complaining about rogue in DaD but dont even realize they reworked melee in POE comon

[silent karma]

Supposedly, yes. I killed roughly 50 yetis yesterday running full luck set and drinking luck potion before I got the tooth though.

[runic turtle]

if you only think a class is good cause they can face tank hits, you are looking at it completely wrong.

[fierce crane]

I have a feeling people that complain play exclusively solo sub 25 lobbies.

[stray orbit]

Any rogue double dagger combos?

[subtle heart]

Don't hate me, but I have a question (and don't feel like reading patch notes, and I haven't played in a bit.) What was the big change that is causing this debate? What kind of stealth nerf?

[broken tangle]

people complain everywhere its the natural state of a gamer. born to cry.

[runic turtle]

#📢announcements message

[analog sapphire]

isn't the whole point of rouge to sneak around and kill people off guard? i hate rouge but i dont think it should be nerfed this much, like theres not point in useing creap or the movement while invisible perk anymore

[cursive galleon]

High level rogue gameplay is, "Don't fight most of the classes in the game, you'll lose even if you get the jump on them". Only way to gap close on some classes IS stealth, you can't fight head on with the class, you'll get rocked by everything

[misty axle]

game issue, always, dev bad, always

[fierce crane]

Changes:
Rogue's Creep now has a narrow hearing range.
Rogue's Stealth now reveals his silhouette when moving.
Some translation fixes.
Don't get too tired reading all these patch notes :\

[zealous skiff]

if using cut throat, warlock also win, druid also win. cleric often win. soo its quite good. just run from barb and fighter is easy.

[runic turtle]

actually just skill issue in these complaints. rogue is an amazing class

[broken tangle]

yes maybe the developers are impostors and the true developers are the gamers all along. glad that UE and AI has "build game" button now so more gamers can show what a real men do game like.

[half hill]

Born to complain / Game is a bad / Stab em all 2002 / I am stealth man / 410,757,864,530 dead rangers

[subtle heart]

See, there it is... Couldn't just link me to the announcements like @runic turtle did or not respond at all, just had to add that last little quip.

[whole terrace]

Freak

[runic turtle]

dude the notes are like 3 sentences lol. its not a paragraph. he just copied and pasted what i linked

[broken tangle]

genuine curiousity is an insult to elite people dont ask just know !

[jolly night]

Add feign death to rouge like tf2 spy

[maiden bough]

Rogue was the most unfun class to play against. Sitting in a corner waiting for someone to come through the door and then go invis and jump on them was brain-less gameplay and very unfun to be on the receiving end of. That’s literally how over half the rogues play the class and then pat themselves on the back like what they did required anything other than being patient. The playstyle took zero skill

[analog sapphire]

can you tell me, whats the main strat to kill ppl with rouge? shoot hand cross bow and shoot nerf darts or try to fight with your little butter knifes?

[subtle heart]

Which would've been find, if it didn't end with "Don't get too tired reading all these patch notes :"

[half hill]

Seriously, where is my deadringer? Why can't I substitution no jutsu

[whole terrace]

Add onetap icicle backstab and a revolver💪💪

[runic turtle]

you still read the exact same amount lmao. there was no difference in our replies

[broken tangle]

i support this i hate being fooled and ill be damned cause i would fall for it every time.
(when people duck after i hit them i think they die and move on and im a noob)

[analog sapphire]

i totally agree, i pooped my pants once getting so scared from a landmine rouge, but thats the fun part about it, you HAVE to be on your toes to not get jumped by a rouge, there really isn't any other way to play rouge.

[subtle heart]

FFS, it was the quip.... The quip is what I'm talking about, not the 3 changes.

[broken tangle]

too late, your inferority is permeated across the galaxy, everyone is invited to celebrate in quips.

[jolly night]

New skill for rogue, they pin you up against the wall or ground and start smooching. It prevents all warcries, magic and melee until the attacked one spams space to break out

[maiden bough]

It took zero brain power to play. It was no risk all reward if you built the class right.

[zealous skiff]

rogue is the most unfun class to played too for me. im not patient. and most player are not so patient too i guess.

[subtle heart]

lol

[analog sapphire]

i guess with this logic, lets nerf archers because its too easy to sit far shooting the enemies, lets also nerf warlock, no more curese of pain.

[broken tangle]

ur pretty when u smile now stop asking stuff and know them intuitively its 2024 the age of assertions

[half hill]

Bows already have falloff

[subtle heart]

I like you. You speak my language.

[broken tangle]

deez nuts have falloff

[half hill]

got'eem

[cursive galleon]

people just complain about anything that kills them, these nerfs seriously put rogue at the bottom of the tier list

[jolly night]

Add in an engineer class who can scrap gear and trinkets mid match to make items mid game ( scrap axe or blades, throwing blades, a wood/scrap wall that takes time to build and a batiste big damage single shot)

[broken tangle]

i complain when people need to duck to teabag me like comon i can teabag without ducking

[half hill]

Landmine Rogue being gutted is a good thing. If something is unhealthy for gameplay, it prevents the devs from actually buffing anything. It's bad right now, sure.

[maiden bough]

They did nerf curse of pain. The difference is a rogue jumping on you from invis with impunity led to being killed within 2 seconds. Curse of pain spam was never going to kill you that fast and it didn’t happen out of invis either

[nova garnet]

Warlocks phantomize doesnt do shit if he gets catched by rogue stealth. Wizard can do literally nothing once he gets walked up by rogue. Barbarian doesnt have time to use his abilities and that makes him a lot less tanky and also his swing times are really long. And first of all a good rogue can pick favourable fights. That does a fucking lot.

[sonic stump]

any rogues know if the 3 smoke pots regen

[broken tangle]

btw add range to the scaling of warlock curses. closer to 0 distance = more effective. warlocks fixed.

[half hill]

No

[analog sapphire]

but could u tell me, whats the strat now to kill players with rouge? is rouge just going to be a weaker archer? because i know for sure your not going to go head to head against someone with the daggers, whats the strat?

[sonic stump]

not even with a campfire like second wind?

[cursive galleon]

Everybody plays around their favorable matchups, it's the point of the game, the rogue can only win with stealth, head on it loses to everything

[half hill]

Nah, Smoke bombs, caltrops, field rations don't regen despite being charge based. Presumably for realism reasons

[stable sundial]

But that's the issue landmine didn't get gutted. Sure it's weaker but now all rogues have to do is stay in their spawn go invis when someone gets near by and just not move until they are ready to pounce. If anything every other playstyle of rogue got nerfed and now if you play rogue you have to landmine to kill people.

[graceful tartan]

Anyone unable to join a match due to the "match in progress" error ? It's like a never ending loop and you lose your gear for queuing up .

[sonic stump]

thanks for the info

[broken tangle]

The landmine builds are a relic from circle design. just delete the playstyle.

[icy pike]

do we know if there's going to be a next wipe soon?

[twin zealot]

thats real and wosrt part of the nerfs

[nova garnet]

but only rogue has the abilities to be not heard

[maiden bough]

I don’t play the class. It’s beyond boring. But moving around freely invis with no sound or detection was mega busted bro. You can still sit invis and move you just have to play it smarter now. You can’t walk up to someone for free anymore. And that’s a good change in my book. It took zero skill to abuse rouge the way everyone was doing it

[misty axle]

not to mention those hand crossbow kiting with high resourcfullness to spam door

[analog sapphire]

they dont release the time because they dont want players to stop playing before wipe.

[zealous skiff]

this is why its hard to balance. some class have short gap between floor and skill ceilling. but the other have huge gap. great rogue will looks insanely OP but the other are farmable

[analog sapphire]

so rouge is basically a worse archer now?

[echo bear]

Stupid devs..i hope everyone will go play dungeonborne now !!!!!!!!!!!

[half hill]

TTK is too horrible in that game to be playable

[runic turtle]

you guys are fr trolling with these rogues takes lmao. class is still good

[maiden bough]

I literally said you can still play around stealth, you just have to be smarter about it now. Sorry you can’t walk up to someone completely invis while they are facing your direction for free anymore. 😭

[nova garnet]

Yeah thats why this change is great. If he will be too weak, which i doubt, they can just buff up his ambush damage or anything and there still will be counterplay.

[jolly night]

Naw that clunky af. Cool classes tho

[zealous skiff]

player with decent brain will appreciate ironmace more when they play that game. i buy this DaD after i try dungeonborne

[stable sundial]

Yeah landmine is still good. Every other aspect of the class is terrible though

[cursive galleon]

there's a reason why rogues had to play double hand crossbows in the past, it's a melee class but loses melee range to everything

[misty axle]

they can't even develop their own way out but to rip off other games. this type of dev i never trust. Straight up cash grapping

[maiden bough]

Dungeonborne looks like dark and darker from wish lol.

[analog sapphire]

wdym, rouge is basically an archer, you sit in a room with traps/ being invisible waiting for players.

[jolly night]

I just like sword throw class and ice storm :(

[stable sundial]

To get off the rogue talk anybody else feel like the bonus stat of "additional movement speed" should just be removed? Feels like a must have Stat in high roller.

[cunning island]

Will I get the season cosmetic if I drop below parhfinder?

[jolly night]

Naw

[maiden bough]

You could but then agility will just take its place most likely

[worthy hedge]

anyone wanna run duos

[twin zealot]

why did they make wizard the better rouge again

[jolly night]

Hate high roller unless I scrounge up a lot of gold to make builds

[cunning island]

So I gotta stay at path or above or end season at path or above? It it explained anywhere?

[shrewd veldt]

with the torch interaction quest, what exactly do i do? I turned off 12 torches in crypts like it says, but it didnt count for some reason?

[jolly night]

I think it's whatever your current rank is upon season ending, you get rewards from lower tiers the higher u go

[desert orchid]

rogue chat and rogue guild chat are on fire rn

[shrewd veldt]

with the torch interaction quest, what exactly do i do? I turned off 12 torches in crypts like it says, but it didnt count for some reason?

[cunning island]

So I should stop playing if I get to demi lol

[desert orchid]

torches? U mean floor spikes?

[twin zealot]

did u go down to inferno?

[stable sundial]

Yeah but at least then agility has a curve that decreases the impact the higher you go in the stat. People are already building agility and to max it out additional movement speed is topping them off so why even wear anything without that stat. Its almost the same reason the +2 attributes got removed.

[pliant zinc]

Yes lol

[dry osprey]

🫃

[shrewd veldt]

mine says intereact torches 0/12 in crypts, so i went crypts, and interacted with 12 torches

[jolly night]

Play casuals for freedom of sillyness

[faint pecan]

Should I use warlock or wizard?

[south quartz]

+200 luck 2 yeties 2 teeth wtf bro xD been killing them for weeks on/off

[north jetty]

I really need to hear what you think would be the new meta is for rogues. Not saying landing is the way to go, but surely going invisible and repositioning behind or away is the only chance you have as a rogue?

[keen echo]

rogue can not go invisible, it will show his outline when moving so best chance must be weak point + rupture

[twin zealot]

it will just go back to full melee rouge and landmine rouge as the main styles

[north jetty]

So a shitty fighter lmao

[keen echo]

yes hide is a roleplaying ability now

[viral moth]

what if u cant close doors but they auto close after 5 seconds, then u cant use open/close doors behind for free reset whenever u feel mildly threatened
also remove rat door jumping

[north jetty]

The whole point of a rogue is deception. The two together were bullshit yea. But the line around you while moving is ridiculous.

[jolly night]

Make rat phatter

Give high pdr fighters a passive where their footsteps are 20x louder and cause screen shakes as their characters bellow a FEE FI FO FUM

[ashen jetty]

do we drop better items in 125+ gear score dungeons than in 124- dungeons ?
Same for 25+ and 25-

[zenith copper]

Based, I need this.

[maiden bough]

Honestly the class may just need to be reworked on a bigger scale. Their damage is still very high if built correctly. Their damage wasn’t nerfed. Just their ability to walk up to people and stab them in the face for free. It was the most unfun thing in the world. You walk by and a rogue walks up 4 steps behind you making no sound while invis and then hits you with ambush, rupture, weakpoint and armor pen and you are dead within 2 seconds for free.

[warm crypt]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cYuxPKgDktE

[zenith copper]

Rogues can't grief as well as they used too. 😢

[zenith copper]

But bro no you don't understand bro rogues needed that bro it was crucial bro come on bro just have telepathy and use the force to find rogues in game bro it was so balanced bro please

[jolly night]

Just slap your metal chest to echo locate them bro

[pure beacon]

They should have just went with creep making noise for now and lower their pdr , like take 10% of the daggers. The bigger problem is their absurd damage output against tanky classes

[maiden bough]

You’re right man, it was my fault for not sending their life force sneaking up behind me 🤣 they had so much more skill than me

[inland tendon]

You guys are actually tweaking if you think rogue was any good before bro gets 2 tapped by any class and wiped down in any form of combat

I meant 2 since he has 0 goddamn armour compared to literally everyone else

[maiden bough]

You act like 4 taps isn’t a lot? A lot of classes can kill others within 4 hits lol

[cursive galleon]

Rogue gets actually 2 tapped by everything, maybe 4 tapped if they hit your limbs 4 times

[north jetty]

Bro you can one v one a cleric and a fighter bro it's just skill bro I don't get why you'd need to be invisible as a rogue bro why not be good and one hit like everyone else bro ez bro

[pure beacon]

The problem is not 4 taps against squishy targets , the problem is 4 taps against 50-70%pdr classes

[maiden bough]

Rogues were basically 2 tapping people with ambush, weak point, armor pen, and rupture lol. You walk by and they jump on you and you are at 20% hp before you can even react.

[whole terrace]

3 hits minimum. One stiletto combo if you hit the head.

[maiden bough]

It’s still doing 3 hits faster than most other classes can perform 2 though lol.

[inland tendon]

???????????
if they can even hit you with their horrid hitbox attacks and you moving whilst they camp
after that the second you retaliate whatever class you have just nukes them

[whole terrace]

Ye but that's against like warlock or something with just over 100HP, and only if you headshot on all attacks.

[maiden bough]

If you’re missing your swings, that’s on you and not the class. Many rogues were ambushing people just fine lol.

[inland tendon]

Even if you hit someone the second they react rogue gets head-tapped and they die immediately like what
All this update did was permanently defunct a dead class since it was previously worse than everyone and now its genuinely just a joke pick

[maiden bough]

Dead class?!? Bro you are coping so hard. Rogue was and still is one of the most played classes. You’re believing your own bullshit lol

[north jetty]

I can agree with that. Because I'll definitely admit they were OP when used the way....and they were by most. But now, there just doesn't seem to be a place for them.

[balmy minnow]

ANY nerf on "invis mechanics" is a GOOD nerf.

[keen echo]

i think rogue was in the top 2 weakest classes and top 3 hardest to play before

[jolly night]

A dash/blink over invisible would be good

[balmy minnow]

if you whine about a nerf on inverse wallhacks(i can see you but you cant see me), i got no time for you. it doesnt matter if its nerfing one of the weakest classes in the game. that bs should go, completely.

[inland tendon]

Can't wait for dungeonborne to become good tho so I can stop playing this pile of junk tho 🙏

[whole terrace]

I agree, but also no it isn't, without buffing other playstyles. Invis is the crutch of rogue, that boy is limping.

[maiden bough]

Go play it now. Leave already 🙂

[jolly night]

You'll be waiting for awhile

[twin zealot]

this nerf feels like a solos nerf

[cosmic swan]

It is imo, and that's sad as game is usually balanced for trio

[balmy minnow]

its a secret wiz buff so solo wizards can officially feel good about not taking light orb

[maiden bough]

“Rogue isnt the mega OP free engagement class I want to it be anymore. Class is dead, game is trash”. Like get out of here 🤣

[distant verge]

yo guys how do i craft Cyclops Vision Crystal? im at max with weaponsmith

[keen echo]

brother they made you visible in your invisiblity ability xdd that shit is a roleplay ability now

[dry osprey]

🫃

[twin zealot]

real lol

[jolly night]

Roll a dice to see me bro

[balmy minnow]

good. anything that causes "i can see you but you cant see me", is effectively no different from "hacks/cheats".

[keen echo]

yes remove 1 ability from all classes such a brilliant idea. At least the other guy suggested a blink/dash and that shit could be really cool

[whole terrace]

lmao.

[balmy minnow]

buddy, nothing happens instantly. and the BS must go. you must be an "i can see you but you cant see me" enjoyer.

[jolly night]

Thoughts on chase

[frozen umbra]

why the hell are lobbies in west and east so laggy

[north jetty]

Just go play chivalry bro. The point of all the mechanics is to make it more like DND. If a rogue cant be invisible just get rid of the class because at that point it's just a shitty fighter or ranger.

[balmy minnow]

i have none tbh. but i DO know that invis mechanics in video games present nearly identical situations as does many cheats. aka "i can see you but you cant see me"

[frozen umbra]

you shouldn't compare cheats, which supply an unfair advantage through outside applications, to mechanics in a game even if those mechanics are bad for the game.

[jolly night]

Chase leads you to your target

[balmy minnow]

i never said it WAS cheating. just that the outcome is the same.

[frozen umbra]

The outcome isn't the same, one supplies knowledge without any risk whilst invis/rogue recon has some risk attached (especially after the nerfs to invis)
exceedingly goofy comparing cheating to anything planned by devs in a game

[balmy minnow]

brother. it leads to an interaction where one party sees, while the other doesnt... there isnt even a wall inbetween to slow any one down!

[keen echo]

the sound nerf is good but making invisibility visible is making it a cosmetic roleplay ability 😄 I can't tell if this guy wants to remove stealth in all games

[frozen umbra]

Trolling goes crazy, actually blatantly.

[jolly night]

Hydras give an advantage

[balmy minnow]

this isnt trolling. invis is literally, inverse wallhacks. this is a very common sentiment. crutch gets cut a little shorter and i just laugh and laugh and laugh

[frozen umbra]

This is well done trolling but still trolling, you're logic makes no sense and you don't care about other peoples inputs. So it's trolling.

[jolly night]

Inverse wall hacks would reveal urself to people

[balmy minnow]

"i can see you but you cant see me", justify that mechanic, please.

[jolly night]

Limited movement

[rancid venture]

Rangers need a nerf

[keen echo]

brother you have to hear him

[frozen umbra]

Limited movement, risk of players killing you whilst you're trying to get that information, etc
hell, you can't even get that information against a warlock with hydra or a wizard with lightorb.

[balmy minnow]

still bullshit that leads to an interaction similar to wallhacks. the wallhacker just has to creep around and doesnt even have solid blocking his way.

[frozen umbra]

Me after not listening and further just believing my own delusions. 🥺

[balmy minnow]

i dont know about yall... but i actually want more interactions in the dungeon where i dont know the bad guys are coming. the espers just arent enough for me.....

[cursive galleon]

Rogues have base 105 hp, no PDR, low strength and the closest range melee weapon in the game which makes the class lose to anything head on. Landmine as a game concept can never be removed as any class has the ability to sit in the dark and wait, also there are invis potions in the game (which last longer than Rogue hide). Stealth was the one gap closer Rogues had to outplay someone. Being so fragile on the class you have to run away from most classes as a rogue, and many high level rogue mains will agree.

With the recent updates, Rogues might as well switch to double dagger Slayer Fighter or Wizard with ignite + rondel, and carry some invis potions, as you'll do more DPS as them and have more success. Rogue is definitely the weakest class in the game now. The double hand crossbow rogue build is a joke and it might be the only way to play Rogue now. A lot of the streamers and Youtubers were complaining about Rogue being unfair, but frankly they complain anything that kills them and want to win 100% of the time. Youtubers die to Rogues the most because they are talking out loud to chat or while recording instead of using their ears to avoid getting caught off guard. Clerics, Druids, Warlocks all got nerfs recently too due to Youtubers complaining and it was obvious Rogue was next on the chopping block. These weren't good changes. A game with this many options will always have a meta, and as they release new content the meta will always shift.

This just ruins the game for Rogue players and doesn't really help them. The two rogue builds were an Hide + Ambush + Stealth build and a Creep build without Hide that's only viable in solos (unless stacking Rogues). Both were nerfed, which makes Rogue unplayable at the moment.

[jolly night]

Holy yap

[balmy minnow]

oof that was a whole lot of typing just for it to not be read and for me to copy/past "i dont know about yall... but i actually want more interactions in the dungeon where i dont know the bad guys are coming. the espers just arent enough for me....." and than go back to not caring about rogue for the good of everyone else.

[hushed spear]

ooga booga landmine rogue only viable rogue

Stealth/Creep give other options

[faint pecan]

Anyone want to play with me?

[livid crane]

I haven't felt a noticeable enough difference with the nerf. I'm still playing the same and consistently killing 4-5 players each game if the lobby is filled

[nova garnet]

womp womp

[manic shell]

Wow, thats a wall of text, im sure someone gonna read all that, but not me.

[livid crane]

I disagree, Im a rogue main and I haven't felt a huge difference at all. If you're skilled at rogue and position, this nerf shouldn't affect you that much. Players can still walk into you and land mind rogues are still strong

[dusk solar]

This message timer essentially makes this discord useless.

[jolly night]

Jarvis send meme video of ai duke nukem saying " dayum that's allot of words, too bad I ain't reading that."

[hard rock]

Rogues have base 105 hp, no PDR, low strength and the closest range melee weapon in the game which makes the class lose to anything head on. Landmine as a game concept can never be removed as any class has the ability to sit in the dark and wait, also there are invis potions in the game (which last longer than Rogue hide). Stealth was the one gap closer Rogues had to outplay someone. Being so fragile on the class you have to run away from most classes as a rogue, and many high level rogue mains will agree.

With the recent updates, Rogues might as well switch to double dagger Slayer Fighter or Wizard with ignite + rondel, and carry some invis potions, as you'll do more DPS as them and have more success. Rogue is definitely the weakest class in the game now. The double hand crossbow rogue build is a joke and it might be the only way to play Rogue now. A lot of the streamers and Youtubers were complaining about Rogue being unfair, but frankly they complain anything that kills them and want to win 100% of the time. Youtubers die to Rogues the most because they are talking out loud to chat or while recording instead of using their ears to avoid getting caught off guard. Clerics, Druids, Warlocks all got nerfs recently too due to Youtubers complaining and it was obvious Rogue was next on the chopping block. These weren't good changes. A game with this many options will always have a meta, and as they release new content the meta will always shift.

This just ruins the game for Rogue players and doesn't really help them. The two rogue builds were an Hide + Ambush + Stealth build and a Creep build without Hide that's only viable in solos (unless stacking Rogues). Both were nerfed, which makes Rogue unplayable at the moment.

[runic turtle]

nah rogue still good

[jolly night]

https://youtu.be/TXPC2HXjrYU?si=wxmHXm_U3OAyM2LD

[livid crane]

Rogue is still good

[hard rock]

Guys I'm just copy and pasting this guys message

[jolly night]

Mods obliterate his balls

[cinder tulip]

hey guys, maybe a niche question but, when i cast judgment as cleric, do i get the buffs from the weapons that i have in my hands when i casted the judgement? or do they not count because the cast is with 2 hands and weapons are kinda stoved while casting

[subtle heart]

With this recent nerf to rogue i heard tumble is OP. Whats the build?

[north jetty]

Not everyone wants to wait in a corner. Being able to move while inv was the only way to outplay heavy gear. Creep plus inv was BS and landmines are annoying plus boring. But taking away stealth from the class makes it kind of useless. Might as well play a different class.

[jolly night]

Smokepot Chad's will emerge victorious

[livid crane]

Not to me, I still move around in stealth. Skill issue really

[bronze grail]

did they also nerf daggers, looks like armor pen is 5% now, swear it was 10% yesterday.

[feral quartz]

Agreed, these rogue changes are stupid. Hide already had a limit of 10 steps (WITH A PERK) not allowing you to move far from where you stealthed. It's stupid to add an outline when you move, it completely defeats the purpose of hide, just reduce the number of steps available.

But creep being nerfed? That's dumb as hell. It cost 30% move speed to be quiet, now you're not even quiet.

Nerf cleric and fighter, wtf are they nerfing rogues for?

[jolly night]

Should've been 1 nerf not 2 at once

[gritty rock]

125 gear score lobbies not working?

[feral quartz]

Neither of the changes make sense. But still, with cleric being ridiculously OP, why are they nerfing rogue and not touching any other class? Rogue is likely the least played and easily killed.

[north jetty]

runs and spawn kills Timmies "hehe I get so many kills omg" . Lmao okay. I'll see you in high rollers 😉

[jolly night]

10k gear Chad after killing under 1k gear player trying hr

[subtle heart]

Like 2 patches ago

[livid crane]

Assumes the lobbies I play in before asking. Nice to see discussion going on here

[feral quartz]

Which is also ridiculous, dagger has the SHORTEST mele range, so in order to attack... you are automatically INSIDE the attack range of every weapon in the game. Daggers didn't need a nerf.

[north jetty]

literally says skill issue..lmao okay dude. You gotta be kidding me with that comment 😅

[forest relic]

lol

[north jetty]

Great conversationalist

[stiff urchin]

theres no way u nerf rogue while u have warlocks and druids. what u nerfing next bards💀 actual brain damage

[livid crane]

Can things in Dark and Darker not be related to skill issues? For example Bard has a decently high skill ceiling

[feral quartz]

For real.

[jolly night]

Replace Tm to something else

[viral moth]

the thing im saddest about is that silly pickpocket gameplay is dead now 🙁

[atomic bronze]

Finaly i can play again solo matches hehe

[subtle heart]

No one thinks there can be a bad match up in this

[north jetty]

It's not lost on you how saying that wouldn't be considered a great way to continue a real conversation,right?

[real timber]

@stiff urchin what do you want to nerf on druids - the last thing that they cant run away?

[livid crane]

In theory sure and in ideal situations I agree, but does it not take a lot of skill and mechanical skill to execute that?

[feral quartz]

"last thing" LOL like they don't have the biggest kit in the game

Meanwhile rogue only had creep and hide, which both suck now more than they did before.

[livid crane]

Well you assumed the lobbies I play in. I think having a high ceiling can be valid in games. Just because something is hard doesn't mean something is unplayable right? depending on how hard it is

[fallow fulcrum]

how do i get the goblin dance?

[real timber]

@feral quartz biggest unused kit - animals forms are basically mobility for the most part as everybody is now playing spear over them - well rogue is now in a bad position but I dont get why anybody would come to druid as biggest issue. You can also look at class representation. Warlock and fighter okay.

[jolly night]

Complete gobbo questline

[fallow fulcrum]

oh ok ty

[feral quartz]

Druid definitely shouldn't be first in line on the nerf list, clerics and fighter should be fixed. Druid is in a good spot imo, and if you're only using the shapes for mobility, you're not fully utilizing druid!

[livid crane]

If druid is in a good spot, why do you suggest that they should be nerfed?

[stiff urchin]

who gives these devs these ideas like why would u actually nerf rogue the most balanced class in the game 💀

[jolly night]

Thoughts on hydra replaced by blood bat summon

[real timber]

@feral quartz that depends on the gearscore u also play try druid forms without great gear and you will notice they do negative damage.

[subtle heart]

Depends on the situation a bad match up can still win. Execution and matchup knowledge are key factors.
Im still learning to apply that to this game. So far if i were to give an example. Wizard beats rogue at a distance but rogue beats caster in all other situations

[feral quartz]

I said druid nerf over rogue, doesn't mean that either of them are right

[feral quartz]

As in neither should be nerfed, but if you're going to nerf one of those two, nerf druid because rogue has very little to lose to begin with. Comparing kits of rogue and druid

[real timber]

cat in squire loses to melee wizzard with crystal sword without ignite if you statcheck

[north jetty]

I said this after you hit me with a "skill issue" but sure. Anyway, you're missing the point it's not about a skill issue....sure anyone can get better at a useless class but you never answered the question.....why? The point of the class was high skill and to deceive your opponent. People abused that and sat there hence the nerf. Now theres no way to deceive it makes you half as good as any other class. You can't even smoke bomb anymore. So....I could sit in a corner in the dark with a fighter and get more armor and damage? Plus I can run away AND get second wind? I could sit in a corner with inv pot as a cleric and get em with two bonks? You can't deny ALL of these things, surely?

[livid crane]

Imo and you don't have to agree, I think that saying one character as bad against another is too black and white. I think each character can have a playstyle to beat another character. I don't necesarrily agree that if you play one character then you'll beat another character just because you play that character.

[subtle heart]

Do the goblin quest line

[feral quartz]

Thats the same for several classes, like warlock and wizard or healing cleric. Rogue dps is trash at low gear score too because of the PD deficit they have off the bat.

[livid crane]

The purpose of rogue is to be a glass canon. A rogue when played at a good enough level can kill every class in the game pretty easily. But if you make a mistake you'll basically die in 2 hits with most classes. You can sit in the corner in the dark with fighter, but you do not do more damage. Rogue does the most damage in the game overtime. Rogue can kill almost any class except barb in 3-5 hits in a few seconds. I don't think fighter can do that as well as rogue can

[feral quartz]

Exactly! Except you can't W key to win because you're so squishy. So, if you're good you can get kills, if you suck you're going to die to everyone.

[real timber]

@feral quartz nah i mostly play wizzard and for sure its not the strongest squire gear class in solos but its does quite some damage.

[subtle heart]

Im trying to put it into dark and darker terms and understanding. I come from a fighting game experience and i cant exacrly translate well lol

[feral quartz]

Compared to how the other classes work on base gear, they're very weak.

[real timber]

fire ball still hits 50+ damage on direct hit compared to a 10 dmg cathit - while everything 2 taps you in cat

[livid crane]

That makes sense, I come from FPS games. I can see how it would be difficult to translate fighting games to fps extract lol

[steep zodiac]

Game is based on dnd. Rouges are intended to fulfill the stealth-assassin fantasy. Means they are excel at killing single enemies. Unlike dnd they have very few limitations on their power to turn into hit and run monsters.

Also things like swarms don't exist which heavily limits the down sides of playing rouge which you'd see in dnd.

[livid crane]

Yeah I agree and I think that's basically what rogue is

[feral quartz]

Few limitations? What are you talking about, 30% move speed to move quietly, having to be directly on top of your target automatically putting you within attack range of every weapon in the game, practically no useful range

[north jetty]

👍

[untold raft]

Does D&D have a pve mode yet?

[real timber]

tbh I think the stealth changes enable the devs to give rogue some better ranged damage and more fighting power - lets see.

[feral quartz]

I think that's what it was, before this morning's nerfs.

[livid crane]

I still think it’s like that

[steep zodiac]

It's limitations compared to dnd rouge who has day long cooldowns and enemies which they are literally totally ineffective against.

Also if you get into melee range and die then you played rouge poorly. Best rouges are good at weaving autos during safe times.

[feral quartz]

30% move speed wasn't a big enough cost to move silently? Now we're not silent. Good luck sneaking up on anyone unless they're completely oblivious.

[thorn nimbus]

No useful range???
Throwing knives+crossbow can seriously weaken many classes you arent limited to one like barb is limited to axes

[real timber]

@thorn nimbus but which classes dont ranged options that are better? barb and druid?

[feral quartz]

The hand crossbow sucks so much, and throwing knives if you fill you inventory between every single match, that cost adds up quickly. Rogue has practically no viable range. As it should be.

[steep zodiac]

hand crossbow sucks so much
what a wildly poor opinion

[thorn nimbus]

Druid has o n e spell
Cleric also has o n e spell unless you troll build
Barb has axes
This is 1/3 of the classes in this game lmao

[feral quartz]

It's hot garbage and you know it.

[opal saddle]

The game will be more fun without true invisibility

[sonic stump]

is dreamfire spirit magic on druid or is that the treant

[steep zodiac]

It's got a whole poison option to let you play around it and it's better than the bottom third of classes range options...

[real timber]

@thorn nimbus well druid is just bad at anything except running away anyways. Okay cleric and barb.

[opal saddle]

Rogue just has to use darkness to their advantage plus the damage stacking.

[feral quartz]

Not at all, you've clearly never played ranger. And I'm not giving up the basically 4 required perks for rogue to get shitty poison to apply 4 damage to a dinky hand crossbow.

[steep zodiac]

oh no the stealth melee class doesnt have the same ranged options as the range focused class... there are literally hundreds of videos of people making the hand cross bow a primary option even when it's just a secondary option with 0 specs its better than the bottom third of classes. You had a bad opinion just accept it

[opal saddle]

A good druid just uses shapshifting to gain advantage in fights they have bear form build and that is really hard to fight against.

[thorn nimbus]

It really isnt compared to all these classes
Which are literally 1/3 of all classes in the whole game
Rogue has some of the best dps still is the sneakiest has decent ranged has insane map clear due to interaction speed and it had nearly absolute invis (for most enemies absolute) and creep also absolutely silent
This 'absolute' design of skills is stupid because it prevents interaction between players which pvp should be about it shouldnt just be about dumb luck with someone walking into an invisible unhearable mine

[frail plover]

true man, every bear eat my 3 fireballs on chest and die

[feral quartz]

Bad opinion? What you just said is stupid as hell.

[sonic stump]

what counts as spirit magic on druid

[steep zodiac]

attrocious opinion honestly, but it's okay keep crying in game discussion for rouge to have ranger ranged options

[willow hamlet]

this rogue update is completely ridiculous. Take away the rogues ability to just be silent? and stealth was already bad now its completely useless. Meanwhile warlocks turning into a demon and druids instant shapeshift. this ruined my class

[lapis forge]

Fighters still running full Ms in plate? Cuz that seems a priority....

[real timber]

@steep zodiac why ranger - lets make it even better and give it fighter ranged options huehue

[true stone]

so you can still landmine and how narrow is even the hearing

[spare elbow]

Tbh you can still catch people off guard almost just as easily

[opal saddle]

Try playing as a fight in full Plate and tell me how it goes. Any class with magic damage or armor pen will kill you so fast.

[steep zodiac]

Why stop there let's make it so when a rouge reveals and you're looking at him you're feared for the rest of the raid because the sight of him is just so terrifying

[lapis forge]

Darn if only I could use a bow!

[mighty prism]

Would it be a DnD patch if the rogue wasnt nerfed? My god

[marble otter]

Because the only people who complain about rogue are bad at the game and dont understand the class.

[willow hamlet]

you can catch ppl off guard with any character. they just want rogues to run up to ppl and fight like a barb, even tho we have 1/3 the hp and 1/3 the damage. fucking ruined rogues

[queen ridge]

Rogue nerfed -> landmine cheesers moved to warlock
Warlock not nerfed -> fed up players play warlock to show its antifun material

Warlock fiesta incoming

[real timber]

@marble otter tell that to poshy, firebox etc 😛

[spare elbow]

@willow hamlet Rogue players when they cant get completely free kills with 0 pvp anymore: 😭😭😭😭

[mighty prism]

Deff not a rogue player you zoomer

[willow hamlet]

A. youre an idiot XD B. i dont play landmine, i like pickpocketing and messin with people. now that is removed from the game, they WANT me to just use stealth as an attack modifier

[ebon palm]

Anime pfp opinion doesn’t matter

[covert frost]

suppose rogues strat is to be stealthy and wait tho. crazy nerf and im wizard

[true stone]

there was like 80% rogues in solos on some maps they needed a nerf maybe just wait and see how this patch feels its not even been 12 hours

[sly stag]

Rogue players when they cant get completely free kills with 0 pvp anymore: 😭😭😭😭

[spare elbow]

This guy gets it!

[willow hamlet]

all warlock kills are 'free' by that same logic then. summon a fucking fire hydra but being silent is 'more OP'

[real timber]

well after all the rogues rerolled fighter - we might manage to get from 3-4 fighter per lobby to 5-6

[mighty prism]

Creep was a great balance, but the invis stiletto was not needed

[true stone]

well at least they make sound and dont spend half the game looking like the gnome meme and crouching perma

[spare elbow]

Nobody said warlocks arent annoying af but at least they do have to fight for kills.

[ebon palm]

These single digit IQ devs have been constantly going back and forth on rogue, it’s so wishywashy. Make a decision on stealth and creep, it’s quite literally been changed over half a dozen times. Just makes them look incompetent.

[real timber]

well balancing stealth is a nightmare in a PvP game - a lot of games had that issue. Given nerfs and then buff some other stuff on rogues is probably a lot easier to balance.

[queen ridge]

Yeah "fighting"

[steep zodiac]

im sure youd do better, make your own game im sure well all be coming to play....

[covert frost]

TF2 pyro class when

[true stone]

its called barb i think

[real timber]

Will sorcerers have metamagic - I love sorcs in DnD 😛

[mighty prism]

WE WANT MORE CONTENT, NOT MORE BALANCE CHANGES. RUINS WHEN? RELIGON WHEN? RANDOMIZED MAPS MODUALS WHEN? IONSTEAD WE GET MORE... BALANCE CHANGES YAY!!!

[ebon palm]

You missed the entire point because you’re also single digit IQ. They’ve gone back and forth on this stealth thing for almost a year now 😂😂😂 don’t open your fat mouth if you don’t know what is being discussed.

[true stone]

why would you think that art and map design balance changes are done by the same person ?

[steep zodiac]

you havent even been in the server for a year, but seriously go make your own game and you can insult people when they say the same about you 😄

[frail plover]

average fortnite player

[north jetty]

Well yea if played properly you can just fight EVERYTHING FOREVER.

[ebon palm]

On this account I haven’t yeah. I’ve been playing this game since release. Quiet.

[steep zodiac]

wait are you gonna tell me that balance changes take a fraction of the work that whole new systems take?

[frail plover]

yes and everything is based on new mode reload from fortnite

[mighty prism]

Typical zoomer reply lolol "Git gud fortnite kid"

[true stone]

goku and star wars skins when ?

[steep zodiac]

So surely you can get on that account and type in here. Or you're just lying and lashing out because you're angry...

[valid niche]

I play every class and can say with certainty that this didn't "ruin" rogue.

[frail plover]

cringe

[true stone]

people made rouge work when you couldn't move and there was no creep right

[mighty prism]

Skibidi toilet fantum bro

[valid niche]

ive been very successful with rogue without using stealth or creep

[fallow fulcrum]

yeah you need to be on that new sh1t

[lusty gazelle]

“Made rogue unplayable” is interesting patch notes

[frail plover]

don't talk about legends bro

[steep zodiac]

don't tell them that you can play rouge skillfully by weaving autos they hate that

[frail plover]

this is true

[true stone]

not exactly fun to be landmined by a purple dagger no gear and kill a full gear wizard in 3 hits because you spent half the game crouched around seems really skillful

[steep zodiac]

^see they hate it so much

[astral zenith]

but cant you just two zap them and kill em in any other scenario

[lusty gazelle]

Then get rid of creep and make him weaker. Don’t get rid of the fun shit

[true stone]

cut throat

[bitter patio]

But why did they have to do my boy the pickpocket like this? Pickpocket has now gone from a fun niche to something you can't get away with.

[astral zenith]

Ahh the perk that 5 rogues per server run

[true stone]

just a option or you just die in 3 hits like how do you whip up one zap in time

[rancid venture]

This game is on its way to the grave. Dungeonborne it is

[steep zodiac]

25 days in server, adverting other game, no this seems like a valid opinion worth engagment

[lusty gazelle]

The issue some of y’all for some reason don’t realize? Is landmine rogue is 99% untouched. They can’t get up on you as fast but that burst speed and damage is still basically instantly on top of you. The only things they nerfed are fun builds

[fierce parrot]

how we gonna nerf rogue when its a balanced class but let cleric run around as an invincible class good job iron mace.

[valid niche]

??? cleric already got nerfed

[true stone]

cleric is a diff story its strong but at least you can out run it and range options are low if you are talking 3s yeah its king but rouge needed somthing for all the solo lobbys

[fierce parrot]

Nah bro

[acoustic narwhal]

Why was there no developer's comment for the patch this time? The silhouette thing was previously implemented, and then reverted, and now it's back. What changed?

If I'm not mistaken, there have been several hot fixes where something was changed, then reverted, then thought about being changed again. The inconsistencies makes it look like there is no clear direction on where the game wants key issues to be, like balances and time to kill.

More thoughtful developer's comments would provide better insight to players and where they should expect the game to be heading. It will give players a better understanding of what they should expect the game to be about and how it is played.

Otherwise, future hot fixes will not feel like progress. They will feel like changes with no end in sight.

Please add more insight on reversions.

[lament helm]

Ok this rogue nurf is TUFF. They needed some love in other areas not touched. Not take away from the one skill they can do, hope and pray their landmine works out. Horrid update Ironmace.

[rancid venture]

This is why dungeonborne killed dad. Ironmace is incompetent

[crimson mortar]

Spitting

[stiff urchin]

why would u actually nerf rogue like this

[earnest pendant]

Does anyone have tips for the campfire kit quest? is there a place I should look?

[fierce parrot]

look bruh we even got the cleric gamers like huh

[valid niche]

cus it was stupidly OP in the hands of little cretins that would sit around camping the whole match to get an ez kill from backstabbing.

[spare elbow]

Way too many players who cant pvp leaning on rogue cheese. I can see why youd need a much easier to understand game like DB

[grave jewel]

why? because the game is early access. they need data, rogue can be absolutely broken when properly used,

[empty zealot]

It's random, just loot alot chests

[bitter patio]

They all can be broken when properly used.

[icy thorn]

i spawned in high priests and before killing the first skeleton i got rushed by a rogue triple bled and died :D

[grave jewel]

and they can all be tweaked and experimented with to find a sweet spot for every class,

[true stone]

bottom line is good rouge players this wont really hurt the random rat rouges that just spend 80% of the game crouched and waiting will suffer a little bit, but the damage is the same so you can still landmine idk why people are crying so heavy like its unplayable now.

[spare elbow]

The problem w the way rogue is broken is he doesnt even have to pvp to get free kills, and if theyvhave half a brain and somehow fail the landmine, they can usually just run away without a scratch

[empty zealot]

"Sit around" like it's that simple 😂 so many bad rogues, but somehow ppl still think they were OP. It's just a high skill, high risk class

[valid niche]

theres nothing high skill about getting the drop on someone cus they literally cant see or hear you coming.

[spare elbow]

High skill joke right? 90% of rogues i get jumped by were idle in the room for at least 5 minutes.

[wraith smelt]

I can live without creep being totally silent. The avg player isn't as perceptive as all that even while running paranoid. The silhouette for moving with hide though almost completely destroys pickpocket.

A fun and mostly benign playstyle that rewards planning, map knowledge and mechanics.

[bitter patio]

They literally can still do this. This change only actually affects pickpocket more than any other build. That's why I'm salty.

You can still crouch next to a door and landmine away.

[steep zodiac]

perfect balance isn't worth striving for. It's better to let classes take turns being slighty stronger than others. But most people hate that it's the best way to balance a pvp game

[empty zealot]

They still need to set up the ambush and do it within the hide timer window etc.

[true stone]

playing solo wizzard is like playing mine sweeper with every room you enter

[fierce parrot]

Rogues in solos were not that big of an issue though

[queen ridge]

Not much healthy if "skill" brings to no counterplay jumpscares

[empty zealot]

And how do you know that?! Actual Esp? 😂

[grave jewel]

exactly. the game will never be perfect. but players generally want the perception there was a fair chance to prevent any death they had. rogue sometimes, feels unpreventable to die against. it can be extremely infuriating, this change likely is not permanent. they just need data and player feedback

[spare elbow]

😮 they have to find a dark corner AND press a button at the right time!? Astounding high skill ceiling 3d chess right there

[true stone]

this nerf is aimed at solo rouges since 60% of the lobby is rogues

[valid niche]

that will require skill now. Before, it was too easy. walk 10 steps in crouch with no audio and you're completely invisible... and I play rogue. I know how easy it was lol.

[fierce parrot]

I run into more MS clerics with judgement than anything in solos so those numbers can’t even be true I rarely see rogues in solos

[steep zodiac]

you just seem to be describing meaningful counter play which is fair to ask for. I personally think rouges have counter play, but it's more preventive counter play than it is reactive counter play

[lament helm]

When we gonna address the modding issue with the game Ironmace? More and more YouTube videos being released. Showing people how to nearly hack in game.

[hearty glacier]

When are they gonna nerf fighters. Too op

[empty zealot]

Keep putting down skilled rogues, nvm that the other 90% of rogues get rolfstomped 90% of the time. Not a class issue.

[spare elbow]

Because of where and how and when they jumped me, i am able to deduce they must have been idle there for a long time. for eg never heard a door open, no mobs clear making it evident they just camped their spawn, etc.

[valid niche]

thats a much better topic. and it definitely needs to be addressed.

[mental elk]

I feel like a good alternative to the perma outline would be to add a semi-consumable item that reveals all creatures/players within a certain distance with a general outline instead

[true stone]

they are all over high roller goblin and normal goblin map i had a game as a wizard with 8 other rogues carrying allmost nothing but good daggers i left by the middle straight away

[empty zealot]

Doors are not that loud lol' you cant hear doors in other peoples spawn 😂 and you know ppl can bypass mobs and just shut the door...? Lot of assumptions there...

[steep zodiac]

rouges have populated high roller for over a year, it's nothing new. It's also not a reflection of the classes strength it's becuase rouge can get in, get money, and get out

[valid niche]

you can see them coming and there are plenty of counters. they could use a balancing patch but nothing too crazy. theyre definitely manageable for most classes.

[mighty prism]

Why TF did they nerf invis?? Actually no point in using it anymore.

[rancid venture]

I feel bad for everyone who invested their life into this game. After it dies there will be a sense of great loss

[fierce parrot]

Just kill em naked rogues die easy. Tbh at this point it’s just a skill issue for people like I’m not tryna be rude but rogue was not an overpowered class like 30% of weapons can basically one shot them and all classes if played correctly can kill a rogue unless they sit in a corner and rat which in this case the nerf they did won’t save your life either so what’s the point

[spare elbow]

Not assumptions there is more context but i cant perfectly describe every single situation and why and how i could tell. Doors are pretty loud btw ofc i cant hear across the map but if im in a module usually i can hear a door of that module.

[grave jewel]

reactive counter play is something the game kindof just feels lacking of at alot of points tbh. preventative play is extremely important, but you don't want to be feeling like you're walking on eggshells, but some of the eggshells are explosive landmines. you just want to be walking on eggshells , hope this is understandable, i respect your opinion and think its valid too

[hearty glacier]

They can compete with ranged classes at ranged, they are as good as barb in melee. Op

[cold junco]

keep nerfing until none of the classes are fun, gj team

[crude badge]

Please remove the map rotation and let me queue for any at any time. My only complaint.

[mighty prism]

Should of just nerfed creep, invis was not an issue at all lolol clueless devs per usual

[full kettle]

game is ballanced through reddit posts, gg, they just killed another class.

[lament helm]

All in all, you nurfed rogue into the ground. I think the 3 or 4th time since PT1, with these same exact changes. The community overwhelmingly goes wtf are you doing, then next weeks update changes it. Stop retrying these updates, work with people to get good balancing. Not a fight between SDF and Terrence. Rogues main perk is to HIDE, not “kinda hide” ITS A ROGUEEEEEE lol.

[empty zealot]

right, so you think this happened some times and now all rogues do this?

[cold junco]

they'll kill the game if they keep up lol

[true stone]

you are missing the point of opening every door jumping back like a skitzo waiting around 10 seconds incase they have hide mastery preping ignite ,arcane barrier then entering the door and hope they dont simply pop out and 3-4 hit you

[steady fog]

which quests do i need to complete to unlock rubysilver crafting

[valid niche]

like barb theyre very susceptible to magic damage and barb/fighter is pretty much even in most encounters with barb usually having an edge over the fighter via higher HP/Str and shouts.

[grave jewel]

maybe they shouldve not done anything to invisible, but added a random perk on gear or a specific equippable item or something that can enable you to see the silhouette of invisible players. or a potion that lasts 3-5 minutes that does this

[steep zodiac]

Iron Will would like to have a chat about this susceptibility to magic damage

[rancid venture]

Playing dungeon borne right now rogues can hide in this game

[hearty glacier]

If barb/fighter is even in melee it's unbalanced. Fighter can use bows, barb has no good ranged option.
And nah fighter is much better vs magic. Bows

[full kettle]

you should not be able se see INVI thats why its called fucking INVI not transparent lol makes 0 fucking sense

[fierce parrot]

I mean just haste yourself and ignite if your bonk wiz. You shouldn’t never lose that fight even if he hits you first you one shot him with ignite 2 shot without unless your gears not good but you should win that 90%of the time bud